Speaker 1: Inventing Anna the Official Podcast is a production of Shondaland
Speaker 1: Audio in partnership with I Heart Radio. Welcome to Inventing
Speaker 1: Anna the Official Podcast, your exclusive look inside the making
Speaker 1: of the Shondaland series on Netflix. I'm your host Stacy
Speaker 1: Wilson Hunt and Today on the show, I talked trauma, mantros,
Speaker 1: and feminism with Emmy winner Laverne Cox, who plays Casey Duke,
Speaker 1: Anna's personal trainer. Laverne digs into how she overcame initial
Speaker 1: skepticism of her character's unbridled positivity and how Casey Duke
Speaker 1: became not only her friend but a continued inspiration. Oh
Speaker 1: and she also sings for us. More on that a
Speaker 1: bit later. Hi, Laverne, It's so nice to have you
Speaker 1: on the podcast. How are you good. It's nice to
Speaker 1: be interviewed again. I've been doing the interviewing um a
Speaker 1: lot lately. That's the other end. Yes, that's true. Now
Speaker 1: you know how hard this job is, right, Yes? I do.
Speaker 1: And I'm just generally speaking. How have you seen Inventing
Speaker 1: Anna received in your world? It's really created a lot
Speaker 1: of buzz, a lot of conversation. What's it felt like
Speaker 1: on Urine it's felt magical. If I have to be honest,
Speaker 1: I think we would number one on Netflix for two weeks. Yes,
Speaker 1: very very much, most viewed show in a week in
Speaker 1: Netflix history. That's incredible. I've gotten messages from people I
Speaker 1: haven't heard from in years who are watching and loving
Speaker 1: the show and loving my character. The best thing has
Speaker 1: been Casey's response. She sent me flowers after she saw
Speaker 1: the whole series, and this has been so complimentary. She said,
Speaker 1: I killed it. One of her friends, apparently of twenty years,
Speaker 1: tweeted me saying that they've known Casey for twenty years
Speaker 1: and said, I nailed it. And so that has been,
Speaker 1: um the most gratifying part of this. I felt a
Speaker 1: lot of pressure playing a real life person and a
Speaker 1: lot of responsibility to have or be happy to have
Speaker 1: her friends and people who love her see Casey in
Speaker 1: my portrayal is really the highest compliment. So yeah, everything
Speaker 1: else is kind of gravy, but it's just it's beautiful
Speaker 1: that people are watching, and I love the discussions that
Speaker 1: are coming up around it. People are just having a
Speaker 1: lot of fun with it too. There's memes and there's
Speaker 1: you know, YouTube channels and think pieces and it's just
Speaker 1: it's wonderful. It's absolutely wonderful that this show his started
Speaker 1: a cultural conversation or continued one, or is gotten people
Speaker 1: thinking and talking in such interesting and diverse ways. It's
Speaker 1: very exciting. I agree. And and this show is special
Speaker 1: in the sense that there's enough levity where we can
Speaker 1: create memes and have fun with it, but then they're
Speaker 1: also at the heart of the story or serious conversation starters.
Speaker 1: And in terms of how you captured Casey, we had
Speaker 1: her on the show. She is really fantastic human being,
Speaker 1: and I'd love to know, firstly, tell me your impressions
Speaker 1: of her when you first met that pressure that you
Speaker 1: felt when you thought, Okay, here's this person. I have
Speaker 1: to find a way to embody her, but also leave
Speaker 1: room for my own invention on screen. What did you
Speaker 1: first think of her when you met? It was interesting
Speaker 1: because when I by the time I finally met Casey,
Speaker 1: I had watched hours a video of her. What's beautiful
Speaker 1: about YouTube is that there's this plethora of information on people.
Speaker 1: And she has been a trainer, you know, for thirty years,
Speaker 1: and there's workout videos of her on YouTube. I actually, um,
Speaker 1: oh my god, what was it called? I forget what
Speaker 1: it's called. She to workout video that's only available on VHS,
Speaker 1: and I found it on Amazon and ordered it, and
Speaker 1: I didn't had to find a VHS player, but I did.
Speaker 1: I couldn't, so I got the VHS transfer to digital
Speaker 1: so I could watch the workout tape and so and
Speaker 1: then she had been interviewed by the Writer's Room, So
Speaker 1: there was like, I think an hour long interview that
Speaker 1: I got. I watched. I watched tons of video of
Speaker 1: Casey before I met her, and so I had ideas.
Speaker 1: And then I met her, and she was so so effervescent,
Speaker 1: you know, and Elwood says, and um, the first legally
Speaker 1: blonde that, like, you know, she couldn't kill someone. People
Speaker 1: who work out have endorphins. They don't kill people. I
Speaker 1: was thinking that, like, you know, Casey, because she works
Speaker 1: that all the time, she has other endorphins, and so
Speaker 1: she was just so like energetic and positive and effervescent.
Speaker 1: She was like, is actually effervescent? She really is, And
Speaker 1: there could be something to that endorphin theory because she's
Speaker 1: constantly high on life. Yeah yeah, And I mean she's
Speaker 1: working all the time. And I met her in the
Speaker 1: lobby of her building, and then just her the way
Speaker 1: she related to the door people, and she's just so
Speaker 1: kind to everyone. And then you know, we worked out together.
Speaker 1: But then it was interesting after we left the workout
Speaker 1: and we went we were going to lunch together, and
Speaker 1: everyone knew her. They're like, Hi, Casey, We're walking down
Speaker 1: the street and she's so friendly, and I'm very like,
Speaker 1: I don't talk to strangers, you know, in the street.
Speaker 1: I'm very sort of protected and very to leave me alone,
Speaker 1: and I'm very boundary. But Casey's just out and just
Speaker 1: happy and people know her and people were saying hi,
Speaker 1: like everyone, how you doing, And she's like, hey, there
Speaker 1: was these relationships with just people like just as she's
Speaker 1: just walking to Hala taxi and then the restaurant we
Speaker 1: went to, everyone knew were there and it was so lovely.
Speaker 1: And so it was just interesting feeling like the effervescence
Speaker 1: of this woman who just has this positivity that like
Speaker 1: surrounds her and that she's obviously putting on and like
Speaker 1: it was it was coming back to her. It's just
Speaker 1: interesting watching the positivity come back to her that she's
Speaker 1: obviously been putting out and earned. There are many fascinating things.
Speaker 1: I mean, I just and then we had a four
Speaker 1: hour lunch where we where she told me her life stories.
Speaker 1: What did you guys eat at this four hour lunch?
Speaker 1: Because she spoke about it too, and I wanted to know,
Speaker 1: what are you eating at this lunch? You know, she's
Speaker 1: very fitness conscious. I think she had like she had
Speaker 1: a salad. I think in some fish. She had like
Speaker 1: fish and a salad. I had approached because I'm not
Speaker 1: doing fish right now. I think I had like a
Speaker 1: steak or something. And then there was there was white wine,
Speaker 1: of course, obviously because the people at the restaurant know
Speaker 1: she knows the owners. They were very generous and they
Speaker 1: kept refilling. I think she needed, you know, some liquid
Speaker 1: courage to go where she went. In our conversation, she
Speaker 1: was very it was raw. It was very encompassing. Like
Speaker 1: we started with her childhood. We started with her love
Speaker 1: of dance that you know, turned into her love for fitness.
Speaker 1: We talked about her first marriage and moving to Europe
Speaker 1: and when we went and we talked about her her mother,
Speaker 1: and we talked about there are a lot of things
Speaker 1: that feel personal that I just would never feel comfortable sharing.
Speaker 1: But she it was very very intimate and very real,
Speaker 1: and I'm really grateful for that, because there were moments.
Speaker 1: She's been through some things, she's had a life, and
Speaker 1: it's effervescent in as positive is she as She's had
Speaker 1: a challenging life, and she's been through some things, and
Speaker 1: there was so many beautiful moments that she shared. It's
Speaker 1: just such an honor. I don't know why I'm getting emotionally,
Speaker 1: she says, an honor for someone to um to sit
Speaker 1: with you and share so much, well, to trust you
Speaker 1: with it too, I think, to trust me with it.
Speaker 1: It just feels very there's nothing very sacred about it,
Speaker 1: and I'm just I'm really honored. I'm very honored that
Speaker 1: she trusted me and she shared all of that and
Speaker 1: I used it in the work. He was invaluable. It
Speaker 1: was invaluable that conversation. How much of what you heard
Speaker 1: Casey share resonated with you and your experiences? You're someone
Speaker 1: I think a lot of us look to for wisdom
Speaker 1: and inspiration. You've been very open about your own struggles
Speaker 1: and feeling comfortable with yourself now at the stage of
Speaker 1: your life. How much of what she shared did you feel, Gosh,
Speaker 1: I really understand that a very organic intersection is Casey spirituality.
Speaker 1: Casey's understanding that there is an energy that bigger than her.
Speaker 1: To you, she talks about the universe, and so that
Speaker 1: to me that I feel that, I feel like I'm
Speaker 1: in the core of who I am. Casey has done
Speaker 1: a lot of work to be in a healed space,
Speaker 1: and I've done a lot of work to be in
Speaker 1: a healed space. It's done a lot of work to
Speaker 1: not be reactive, to find the lesson in something, to
Speaker 1: be of service. Casey's life is service, really, it really is.
Speaker 1: And so Casey more so than me, I'm trying to
Speaker 1: be a little more selfish and a little more because
Speaker 1: I've given so much sometimes that I haven't had anything
Speaker 1: left for myself. And I think Casey has been there too.
Speaker 1: I think that's part of how she ended up in
Speaker 1: this situation with Anna, that she gives once she takes
Speaker 1: on a client. I don't want to say it looks
Speaker 1: like her children, but sort of. You know, she's very
Speaker 1: she wants people to win, and she wants to be there,
Speaker 1: and she wants to be a service. And I think
Speaker 1: she and I both have in common that we've been
Speaker 1: in situations where we want to be of service so badly,
Speaker 1: and we allow people with not the best of intention
Speaker 1: to take advantage of that right, and you do open
Speaker 1: yourself up to be sapped a little bit of your
Speaker 1: own strength because you're giving, giving, giving, And when she
Speaker 1: talked about her approach to training, isn't just about losing
Speaker 1: weight or getting fit. She's targeting the whole person, the
Speaker 1: holistic experience. It's about mindset, motivation, movement. And the mindset
Speaker 1: is you know, how you think about yourself, what is
Speaker 1: your relationship to your body? That that changing the reframing,
Speaker 1: you know, instead of I hate this about myself, this
Speaker 1: is the thing I want to work on, but I
Speaker 1: have to love this. And then motivation what gets me
Speaker 1: out of out of bed every day to do it?
Speaker 1: And then finally the movement. Um, I'm sorry, I like it.
Speaker 1: Spent a lot of time with crazy stuff. We're taking
Speaker 1: a short break, but please stay too, and hey, thanks
Speaker 1: for sticking around. Now back to the interview. It's interesting,
Speaker 1: there's a there's a lot of Overlapman, how are you
Speaker 1: approach acting how she approaches training. It's not just this
Speaker 1: mental exercise, it's a full body investment. So tell me
Speaker 1: when you invested your own body and becoming fit for
Speaker 1: this part, which you have said you've never had a
Speaker 1: role where you had to be physically fit because you're
Speaker 1: playing a trainer. How are you using some of her
Speaker 1: approach to approach your own fitness, which was probably pretty rigorous.
Speaker 1: I'm guessing what was interesting for me about I mean,
Speaker 1: it just be really real. I kind of got lucky.
Speaker 1: I got um. I haven't talked about this publicly. I
Speaker 1: got sick at the end of twenty eighteen and just
Speaker 1: ated losing weight. And I just started losing weight, Like
Speaker 1: I lost fifteen pounds in a month, and I was
Speaker 1: really ill. That's scary. I was tested for everything, and
Speaker 1: we figured out what was going on. And I won't
Speaker 1: say publicly, but I got really sick and I just
Speaker 1: started losing weight. And the weird thing about losing weight
Speaker 1: is that, for me and probably for a lot of
Speaker 1: women and some men as well, is that like, I'm
Speaker 1: sick and I'm losing weight and I don't have no
Speaker 1: idea why, and I'm not really doing anything. And I
Speaker 1: also was loving losing weight because clothes were fitting better.
Speaker 1: And I mean twenty nineteen was the first year I
Speaker 1: was able to wear samples to the Emmys. For example,
Speaker 1: I was we still had to alter with the samples.
Speaker 1: I didn't get that skinny, I mean skinny for me.
Speaker 1: But so when I started working on Casey, I was
Speaker 1: getting better, but I lost all this weight. And so
Speaker 1: when I had trained with Casey, it was really about toning.
Speaker 1: So I took some of Casey's exercises. Casey is about
Speaker 1: you know, muscle fiber targeting, you know, and toning and
Speaker 1: lengthening and elongating, having sine with muscles, you know. I
Speaker 1: watched her workout videos obviously trained with her. So I
Speaker 1: was going to work out in the gym here and
Speaker 1: I was going back and forth. And then when when
Speaker 1: I was traveling a lot, I was just it became
Speaker 1: easier to just have weights. So I started traveling with
Speaker 1: weights in my luggage. I had five in tin pound weights.
Speaker 1: That's probably pretty heavy. No, yes, I wasn't carrying like
Speaker 1: we have drivers caring the luggage. You know, people at
Speaker 1: the airport they're like what do you have in here?
Speaker 1: We're like waits, and I'm like um. So I started
Speaker 1: traveling with five and tin pound weights, and so I
Speaker 1: would do wake up and do a little cardio and
Speaker 1: then I really started. I really went in on weights
Speaker 1: and like a lot of stomach stuff, a lot of stretching.
Speaker 1: I was really obsessed with, like abs, like case these
Speaker 1: abs are like insane. So and then but it became
Speaker 1: part of the character. I just remember being in Morocco
Speaker 1: and like waking up and doing weights, and it just
Speaker 1: like it just felt like Casey, Like this is what
Speaker 1: Casey would do, you know, like she it felt very
Speaker 1: I've never like worked out that much, you know, like
Speaker 1: just really like except when I was dancing back in
Speaker 1: the day, when I was dancing six hours a day,
Speaker 1: but as an adult, I've never consistently woken up and
Speaker 1: done weights and at lunch doing weights, and at night
Speaker 1: before bed like doing weights. Like it was that kind
Speaker 1: of thing. So I think I don't think it was
Speaker 1: about It wasn't about how I looked it. Really. I
Speaker 1: think it was just about that kind of um because
Speaker 1: I with a sports psychologists as well, because there was
Speaker 1: a part of me. It's very important for actress not
Speaker 1: to judge our characters, so it was a part of
Speaker 1: me that was a little bit in judgment of like
Speaker 1: Casey's positivity and her effervescence, right her and right, I
Speaker 1: was gonna ask you about that. How did you get
Speaker 1: over that skepticism? Initially, I remember something Casey said to me.
Speaker 1: She did bigness competitions when she was younger, and I
Speaker 1: just started to think of her. I mean, she's, you know,
Speaker 1: sixty five years sixty six years old now and in
Speaker 1: impectable shape. And I was like, oh, she's an elite athlete.
Speaker 1: This is a woman who's an elite athlete. Elite athletes
Speaker 1: have a different mindset. I found a sports psychologist. I
Speaker 1: had a recommendation from my therapist and found the sports psychologist.
Speaker 1: We did like three sessions and I really just kind
Speaker 1: of wanted to get a sense of like how elite
Speaker 1: athletes think and what their process is like. And that
Speaker 1: really got me over the hump. I was just like,
Speaker 1: this woman is an asks an athlete. You have to
Speaker 1: have a mindset that is positive, that is affirming, that
Speaker 1: motivates you. There's really no time to like spend too
Speaker 1: much time in negativity or cynicism or because I have
Speaker 1: I'm kind of cynical. Um, there's no time for that.
Speaker 1: Really when you're training, when you have to make physical
Speaker 1: goals and right either you you know, stick the landing
Speaker 1: or you don't. Either you make the basket or you
Speaker 1: whatever the sport is, you know, you hit the ace
Speaker 1: or you don't. In tennis, that sports psychology piece really
Speaker 1: helped me just like go in and just be like,
Speaker 1: this is what it is, without judgment. I love that,
Speaker 1: and I also just want to say I'm glad you're better.
Speaker 1: Even though it's fun to lose weight, and where smaller
Speaker 1: size clothing, health is number one. So and what was
Speaker 1: Steve too is that people were like, girl, you're losing weight,
Speaker 1: you look sickly, you look snatched online and I was
Speaker 1: just like wow, And I didn't say anything at the time,
Speaker 1: and it was just really interesting how we celebrate people
Speaker 1: being thick and we don't know we just celebrate weight loss,
Speaker 1: and we don't know what people are going through when
Speaker 1: they're losing weight. I know I think about this a lot,
Speaker 1: and I always try to compliment people if I've sense
Speaker 1: that they look thinner, I'll say you look very fit
Speaker 1: or you look healthy. I really try to stay away
Speaker 1: from those quote unquote compliments because they we don't know
Speaker 1: what's going on with someone. So thank you for sharing
Speaker 1: your story. I'd like to talk about Casey's dynamic with Anna,
Speaker 1: which obviously is so complex and transactional in nature we
Speaker 1: come to see throughout the show. How much of that
Speaker 1: aspect of their relationship do you think blinded Casey to
Speaker 1: Anna and her real intentions. Obviously, the you know, the
Speaker 1: first deposit, the check cleared, she out of package of
Speaker 1: workout sessions. So that cleared, So she was like, okay,
Speaker 1: well I got my money, you know, for that first session,
Speaker 1: the only money she got. And so there was that piece,
Speaker 1: and then she just saw this spoiled girl who she
Speaker 1: assumed was an heiress. But she had this great idea.
Speaker 1: What Casey said to me is that, you know, I
Speaker 1: liked she didn't wanted to be an Instagram model, that
Speaker 1: she wanted to build a business, and so let's help
Speaker 1: her because it's I mean, the it's the workout piece,
Speaker 1: but it's also months at motivation movement, and it's all
Speaker 1: connected for Casey. For Casey, it's like, this is my job.
Speaker 1: So she's I've been asked to go to Morocco to
Speaker 1: train people. It is not unusual for Casey to be
Speaker 1: flown places to train folks. She told me this wonderful
Speaker 1: story about when um I think it was the year.
Speaker 1: I think that didn't Sel Washington won the Oscar for
Speaker 1: training day because you know, she trained, didn't sell and
Speaker 1: mini movies. They had flown her out to Los Angeles
Speaker 1: and put her up at the Sunset Tower. And she
Speaker 1: said she had five Oscar nominees that she had didn't
Speaker 1: sell Julian or Diane Lane, oh my god, and somebody
Speaker 1: else I forget. So they put her up at the
Speaker 1: Sunset Tower when she was training people. So this is
Speaker 1: her life, you know, her traveling to train clients is
Speaker 1: none of this is unusual. So I think for Casey
Speaker 1: she wanted to be of service. Once she takes on someone,
Speaker 1: she wants the best for you. She like genuinely wants that.
Speaker 1: And she really wanted that for Anna. And I think
Speaker 1: the moment when um Anna ends up, you know, sleeping
Speaker 1: over her apartment that night, she couldn't possibly let her
Speaker 1: that girl go. What if she harmed herself. It's very intense,
Speaker 1: and like obviously people like Anna manipulate people and play
Speaker 1: on their feelings and play on their find their weakness
Speaker 1: and Casey's weaknesses that she wants to help people. She
Speaker 1: wants to be of service, so right, which can be
Speaker 1: a wonderful quality, but it really does open you up
Speaker 1: to potential harm. Yeah, but what is beautiful. We see
Speaker 1: in this series that Casey was able to set boundaries.
Speaker 1: Casey was able to be like, okay, wait, no, yes, okay,
Speaker 1: it gets to a point Casey and I had this
Speaker 1: in comment too, it can get to a point where
Speaker 1: I'm okay, no, we're saying them boundaries here right. There's
Speaker 1: this great scene in episode two, which of course we're
Speaker 1: jumping back and forth and in the time continuum, and
Speaker 1: this is when Casey is telling Nef about setting her
Speaker 1: own boundaries when Anna's in prison, and she's saying, you know,
Speaker 1: the person who's sitting at Rikers is not the person
Speaker 1: we thought we knew, and Adelphi doesn't exist. That person
Speaker 1: new Rikers is somebody else, somebody who was pretending to
Speaker 1: be an Adelphi. And it seems like for even though
Speaker 1: we haven't seen the full trajectory of Casey's story yet,
Speaker 1: we sense early on, oh, this woman is kind of
Speaker 1: having to teach the younger women to not be so trusting.
Speaker 1: Tell me about that interplay between Casey and Nothing. That scene,
Speaker 1: it was such a juicy scene for me. That person
Speaker 1: sitting and its sale maybe a made of character. It
Speaker 1: was just so it was such good writing and I
Speaker 1: just remember prepping the scene with a coach and just
Speaker 1: having a lot of fun. And we tried it a
Speaker 1: lot of different ways, and um, Tom was so amazing
Speaker 1: and directing that scene. I love being directed by actors.
Speaker 1: He just gave me such fun things to play with
Speaker 1: and try. I have I have no idea which take
Speaker 1: they use. This is the fun of doing multiple tastes.
Speaker 1: It's like not in my hands anymore. It's just like
Speaker 1: it's in the director's, in the editor's hands. So it
Speaker 1: was just I had fun preparing, I had fun on
Speaker 1: set with it. And I think it may have been
Speaker 1: Alexis and I think was our first scene together. She's
Speaker 1: just so amazing. What an amazingly talented young woman. Oh
Speaker 1: what a joy was just doing scenes with her. And
Speaker 1: just I love talent. I really, really really love talent.
Speaker 1: I love young talent, you know, young talent that is
Speaker 1: fresh but cultivated. She has a skill set, it's not
Speaker 1: raw talented, is cultivated talent. She also has an amazing
Speaker 1: wisdom and grounded nous. Speaking to her, I felt like
Speaker 1: I was speaking to a seasoned, you know, thirty professional.
Speaker 1: You do feel that when you talked to her behind
Speaker 1: the scene and she played I believe she played violin
Speaker 1: as a child. I don't know. Yeah, And she's a musician,
Speaker 1: and you can really tell she's a full, full fledged artist.
Speaker 1: But the discipline of studying anything classically is so useful
Speaker 1: that discipline will serve you, and it served her really well.
Speaker 1: She was so professional on set, and she apparently has
Speaker 1: perfect pitch, which I am so jealous. She said she
Speaker 1: had a perfect pitch and I was like, and I
Speaker 1: was saying, I know, because I mean I have sometimes
Speaker 1: I have decent relative pitch, like I can usually pull
Speaker 1: an app out of my out of my um, yeah,
Speaker 1: it was an app for the record everyone. I'm like, okay,
Speaker 1: I think I haven't eff in my head, so I
Speaker 1: say I think an effort her and I was like,
Speaker 1: what note is this? It was brilliant. She was like,
Speaker 1: it's fluctuating between E and F shot with the vibrato,
Speaker 1: and I was like, work, I'm sorry, I'm a world
Speaker 1: class neer and like so many ways. Well, you know,
Speaker 1: you may become the casey of acting coaching for the
Speaker 1: younger generation, so keep working on that. I see this
Speaker 1: as the next phase of your career. I'm obsessed with
Speaker 1: the with the craft part of it. I'm obsessed with
Speaker 1: the process part of it. So um, I'd love to
Speaker 1: talk about episode six, the Morocco episode, which is Casey's
Speaker 1: episode and her crazy experience on the quote unquote vacation
Speaker 1: that turned out to not be a vacation. There's a
Speaker 1: great scene when Casey and No are talking in Casey saying, oh,
Speaker 1: you'll have a great experience. The universe provides what you're
Speaker 1: meant to have and what are you meant to have?
Speaker 1: M hm, three pounds off Anna a vacation and do
Speaker 1: you think she was enjoying for the first time in
Speaker 1: her life? This idea like I'm just going to be
Speaker 1: carefree and feel young for a weekend, not be so
Speaker 1: tied down with rigor and discipline, and just sort of
Speaker 1: have fun. Casey has fun. No, case of my understanding
Speaker 1: and you spoke to her, They of my understanding is
Speaker 1: a woman who has fun. The case of my understand
Speaker 1: is a woman who enjoys life. So this No, this
Speaker 1: is a job Morocco, wonderful, La Mommonia, Wow, gorgeous, But
Speaker 1: this is a job for her, and she definitely looks
Speaker 1: at it as a job, and that's maybe the dissonance
Speaker 1: she feels where she's starting to feel, what is my
Speaker 1: role here? You know, she's done some work with Anna,
Speaker 1: and she's starting to question what is my interaction with
Speaker 1: this person? And maybe that's where it starts to unravel
Speaker 1: for her. I think too, it's she's just trying to
Speaker 1: make the most of it. I think Casey is like,
Speaker 1: this is awkward af a lot. Let's just make the
Speaker 1: most of it. I'm here. You know. It's like she's peacemakers.
Speaker 1: She's like, let's chill and have fun. Um that this
Speaker 1: situation couldn't be paid right obviously, right, it became a
Speaker 1: bit untenable for her to even fix. Right. Yeah, Okay, everybody,
Speaker 1: We'll be right back right after these messages. Hey, Stacy
Speaker 1: here again back to the interview, and one of my
Speaker 1: other favorite moments for Casey is in the finale episode
Speaker 1: nine called Dangerously Close, where Casey confronts Rachel at the
Speaker 1: courthouse about the fact that she concealed her involvement in
Speaker 1: Anna's ultimate arrest. I feel used by the police, by
Speaker 1: the prosecutor, I feel used by are you thinking you're
Speaker 1: some kind of victim in all this taking care of you.
Speaker 1: I am a victim in all of this. At least
Speaker 1: you get to cry into all that money. It's like
Speaker 1: you have plenty leftover even after you pay m it's six.
Speaker 1: Oh tell me where you think Casey is in that
Speaker 1: moment and how hurt she feels. Even though she understands
Speaker 1: Anna has done some bad things, she still almost feels
Speaker 1: like Rachel has been the bigger person to hurt in
Speaker 1: that moment. Right, Anna was a job an, it was
Speaker 1: a job when Rachel was betrayed by Anna. Taking advantage
Speaker 1: of by Anna, she became a friend to Casey, and
Speaker 1: she became this girl that she needed to be there
Speaker 1: for and needed to nurture through this deeply traumatizing moment
Speaker 1: in her life. And she was lying to me the
Speaker 1: whole time she was lying to me about turning in Anna.
Speaker 1: She was lying to me about a book deal Like,
Speaker 1: it's just who are you? Like, I don't know who
Speaker 1: you are, So you've been this like victim to my face,
Speaker 1: crying to me distraught. Meanwhile, you're working with the police,
Speaker 1: you're turning and your friend you are exciting you know,
Speaker 1: six figure deals. Just tell your story. The credit card
Speaker 1: companies paid you up. You haven't told me any of this.
Speaker 1: Like it's like we're supposed to be friends. I have
Speaker 1: extended myself to you and taken your side in this
Speaker 1: and brought in one of my clients to try to
Speaker 1: do this intervention for you, and you've been lying to me.
Speaker 1: It's a betrayal. That's just like it's the end of
Speaker 1: the it's all the whole mess of it. I've been
Speaker 1: lied to you by and I've been taking a bandobay
Speaker 1: and we pay for an airline ticketing our first class.
Speaker 1: She owes me for fitness sessions, like I haven't got
Speaker 1: any of that money back, right, I'm trying to be
Speaker 1: zen about that. I'm trying to be there for this girl,
Speaker 1: and she's lying to me, to everybody. It's like it's
Speaker 1: just too much. She had Casey had her name taken
Speaker 1: off the story. She's like, I want to be associated
Speaker 1: with this. This is bad for business, This is bad karma,
Speaker 1: this is bad energy. These girls are toxic, all of them.
Speaker 1: I went out at this narrative. What do you mean
Speaker 1: I don't want to be in your article? What this
Speaker 1: ain't mean? I don't want my clients seeing me in
Speaker 1: this negative context. I'm out, like I need to distance
Speaker 1: myself from this, and then Rachel sucks her back in
Speaker 1: and I'm going to court. Can you imagine? No, I'm
Speaker 1: taking time out of my life to go from Hudson
Speaker 1: Yards all the way down to the courthouse, you know,
Speaker 1: with city Hall to support you, to be there for you.
Speaker 1: You can't tell me any of this. It's the shock
Speaker 1: of it. It's the bet trail of it. It's just
Speaker 1: the it's the how dare you of it? She felt
Speaker 1: she was made a fool out of and I think
Speaker 1: she could have maybe understand Rachel was distraught, and if
Speaker 1: Rachel had just had the courtesy to share with this
Speaker 1: person who has been a mentor and a friend of her. Hey,
Speaker 1: just so you know, this is an opportunity I have.
Speaker 1: Don't judge me, but this is what I need for myself.
Speaker 1: I think it's the lack of honesty that feels so hurtful,
Speaker 1: and it's in that Casey put herself on the line,
Speaker 1: like she when she confronts Neff about the Instagram page,
Speaker 1: you know, at her job, and you know, making this
Speaker 1: case more public and I could go to prison for
Speaker 1: fifteen years and you're worried about Becky's fifteen minutes of shame.
Speaker 1: Stop calling me Becky. Okay, Karen, we aren't gonna wait
Speaker 1: the funk up and realize you're saying, secretary at her
Speaker 1: damn strength, she's like going to somebody's job and confronting
Speaker 1: them to defend Rachel, to try to protect Rachel. It's
Speaker 1: just like it's Embarras saying, it's like really like going
Speaker 1: above and beyond to be there for Rachel, and Rachel
Speaker 1: is like girl. And what's too bad too, is as
Speaker 1: a woman watching this, I felt, gosh, it's unfortunate when
Speaker 1: women try to help each other and build each other
Speaker 1: up and then they still can't get hurt. Right. So
Speaker 1: there's this idea that just because people are women doesn't
Speaker 1: mean that we're always going to have each other's back,
Speaker 1: that we always have to be watching not for ourselves,
Speaker 1: And just because someone's the same gender as you doesn't
Speaker 1: mean that there's a built in trust or I think
Speaker 1: that's that goes for race. I think that goes to
Speaker 1: so many things. But you know, I think the the
Speaker 1: actor in me, the empathetic part of me, is that
Speaker 1: hurt people hurt people just because then when it's trans
Speaker 1: you know, I can love them. I can love them,
Speaker 1: but I can set some boundaries and I can love
Speaker 1: them from a distance. And I think, you know, we
Speaker 1: want solidarity as women, but I think that we also
Speaker 1: have to acknowledge that womanhood is confident with that class
Speaker 1: shifts our womanhood. There's no one universal, one woman experienced, class, race,
Speaker 1: ex assigned of birth, all of these things. So we
Speaker 1: can have solidarity around issues and acknowledge our differences. Right, Like,
Speaker 1: I'm very pro choice and I've done a lot of
Speaker 1: advocacy for reproductive rights. Right, I'm obviously can't get pregnant,
Speaker 1: and it's just part of my values, you know. And
Speaker 1: I believe that part of being a feminist is, like
Speaker 1: people who can get pregnant, women need to have control
Speaker 1: over their bodies. And what I think you're talking about
Speaker 1: is how sometimes women tear each other down. How right,
Speaker 1: how patriarchy sets sets it up so that we are
Speaker 1: fighting each other to divide and conquer thing. And I
Speaker 1: think when we can understand that divide and conqueror strategies
Speaker 1: are tool of patriarchy or tool of domination culture, then
Speaker 1: we can be in solidarity. But we have to. We
Speaker 1: can only be in solidarity in truth, right, We can
Speaker 1: only be in solidarity when we can behold ourselves like countable.
Speaker 1: When I have done something that's not the coolest thing
Speaker 1: to a friend of mine, male, female, whatever gender, I
Speaker 1: have to be accountable. And then final question, how would
Speaker 1: you say that playing this character, playing Casey has changed you?
Speaker 1: And what have you taken from her that you now
Speaker 1: use or you hear maybe mantras that you learned from her,
Speaker 1: And how has she affected you? I mean, there's so
Speaker 1: many things, there's so many caseyisms. My favorite though. The
Speaker 1: past is our teacher, the presenters our creation, and the
Speaker 1: future is our inspiration. So in this present moment we
Speaker 1: can create whatever we want. Right, so it encourages us
Speaker 1: to be present. The past is our teacher. Learn from that.
Speaker 1: Learn from the past, but like, don't get too caught
Speaker 1: up in it, don't get stuck there, because in this
Speaker 1: present moment, in our creation, we can heal, We can
Speaker 1: create healing. We can create a new future inspired by
Speaker 1: the future, inspired by the and that we're manifesting in
Speaker 1: our lives. That is just wisdom, that is really really
Speaker 1: good ship, that's a life like and I think too.
Speaker 1: Casey is a trailblazer. Casey Duke is a trailblazer in
Speaker 1: the fitness business. She was doing this in the eighties,
Speaker 1: and there weren't you know, I would think Richard Simmons
Speaker 1: and James Jane Fonda, you know, But Casey Duke was
Speaker 1: on TV in the eighties too. I know. I actually
Speaker 1: feel remiss that I didn't know her name before the story,
Speaker 1: like we should know her name absolutely. She had a
Speaker 1: workout class that was the most popular New York in
Speaker 1: the eighties that madonnad went to. Obviously, workout videos. In
Speaker 1: the nineties, she designed the diet Coke kunk Um Lucky
Speaker 1: Vanos This he had a two workout videos that Casey
Speaker 1: actually devised the workouts for. She's in the workout videos
Speaker 1: with him. She's the co founder of Equinox. Equinox. I
Speaker 1: did not know that this multimillion dollar company that she
Speaker 1: co founded. The first three Equinox gyms in New York City.
Speaker 1: Casey Duke open, she hired the staff, she helped design
Speaker 1: the space. She did not participate when that company sold
Speaker 1: for over a hundred million dollars. These are the things, too,
Speaker 1: that I think we should reflect on, you know, thinking
Speaker 1: of hidden figures, thinking of like so many women, but
Speaker 1: specifically black women who have been trailblazers and are unsung
Speaker 1: and have not gotten the financial recognition, have not gotten
Speaker 1: the shine that they deserve. It really is my hope
Speaker 1: that with this show that people understand that Casey Duke
Speaker 1: is not only a bad bit, but she's a legend,
Speaker 1: a living legend in the fitness business. She needs her flowers,
Speaker 1: she needs her money, she needs all the things. And um,
Speaker 1: I took a lot of things away from her story,
Speaker 1: her strength, her optimism, her wisdom, but I also took
Speaker 1: away the resilience and the perseverance when she's not always
Speaker 1: been Duck treated well and treating well. That i e. Money, recognition,
Speaker 1: and fame. Not that it's all about fame, right, but
Speaker 1: it is about money and it is about recognition. Right.
Speaker 1: When you've contributed to something and helped build something and
Speaker 1: you don't get to share in the profits of that,
Speaker 1: I think that's a problem. This is an American story,
Speaker 1: you know, this is many people have experienced. As you're talking,
Speaker 1: I'm kind of feeling like a Casey dog. Biopeck is
Speaker 1: next up. Maybe you can lobby for that if you
Speaker 1: sit down with Casey and she tells you the real
Speaker 1: reil of what she's been through it. It was my
Speaker 1: hope to to infuse as much of that bio that
Speaker 1: like the world doesn't know about, that she's so generously
Speaker 1: share with me. I tried to infuse that into every
Speaker 1: moment of playing Casey, that this is the woman who
Speaker 1: it stands before you, enlightened and resilient and powerful and
Speaker 1: strong because she has endured some stuff and she is
Speaker 1: better for for it, and that that is the beautiful
Speaker 1: thing about playing real people and getting to hear real
Speaker 1: people's stories that everybody has mentioned in stuff and how
Speaker 1: we how we get over, how we managed to persevere,
Speaker 1: is the stuff that we all need to hear. Those
Speaker 1: are the stories that we need to hear. That is
Speaker 1: so true, and I have to say you both are
Speaker 1: role models to everyone listening. So thank you for your
Speaker 1: hard work, and thank you to Casey again for sharing
Speaker 1: her story with you and thus with us. Casey Do,
Speaker 1: Casey Do, Thank you, Casey Duke Well, thank you for
Speaker 1: your time lover, and congratulations again that your work is
Speaker 1: studdying as usual. Appreciate that now that we've heard from
Speaker 1: the actor who plays her. It's time to meet the
Speaker 1: Queen of Montrese herself, Casey Duke. Tune in next week.
Speaker 1: Don't play it, stay jump and let the net appear. Really,
Speaker 1: go for your dreams. Even if you fail, you'll learn
Speaker 1: something from that failure. Think big, dream big. And that's
Speaker 1: what I really saw an Anna. She was dreaming big.
Speaker 1: If you're enjoying this show, subscribe, share with your friends,
Speaker 1: rate and leave us a review. All of that good stuff.
Speaker 1: And if you haven't finished Shondo Lan's Inventing Anna on Netflix,
Speaker 1: please go do that. We really don't want to spoil
Speaker 1: it for you. Inventing Anna the Official Podcast is executive
Speaker 1: produced by Sandy Bailey, Lauren Hohman, Tyler Klang, and Gabrielle Collins.
Speaker 1: Our producer and editor is Nicholas Harder, and the show
Speaker 1: is produced and hosted by me Stacy Wilson Hunt. Inventing
Speaker 1: Anna the Official Podcast is a production of shondoland Audio
Speaker 1: in partnership with I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from
Speaker 1: shondo land Audio, visit the i Heart Radio app, Apple podcast,
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.