WEBVTT - A Radical, Community-Based Approach to Independent Production 0:00:06.120 --> 0:00:09.840 Welcome to Strictly Business, Variety's weekly podcast featuring conversations with 0:00:09.920 --> 0:00:13.520 industry leaders about the business of entertainment. Today, my guest 0:00:13.520 --> 0:00:16.119 in New York is John Cayman, chairman and CEO of 0:00:16.200 --> 0:00:19.120 Radical Media. Radical has been a mainstay in the New 0:00:19.160 --> 0:00:22.439 York production scene for decades. It's best known for producing 0:00:22.520 --> 0:00:26.200 high end documentaries and non fiction series of all varieties. 0:00:26.960 --> 0:00:29.240 Its offices in the Village are a soup to nuts 0:00:29.320 --> 0:00:32.880 hub of activity for production, from development to the post 0:00:32.960 --> 0:00:37.280 production facilities that it also has. Cayman here speaks candidly 0:00:37.320 --> 0:00:39.479 about what it takes for a company to survive as 0:00:39.520 --> 0:00:42.479 an independent for as long as Radical have, and he 0:00:42.560 --> 0:00:45.519 talks about the unique skill set that it takes to 0:00:45.560 --> 0:00:51.080 manage creative people and process. John Cayman, chairman and CEO 0:00:51.120 --> 0:00:53.320 of Radical Media, thanks for coming by to talk to 0:00:53.400 --> 0:00:56.880 us about the independent production business. Happy to be here. 0:00:57.600 --> 0:01:01.560 It is. Radical Media is really a rarity these days. 0:01:01.640 --> 0:01:06.120 It is a true independent of real size. So much 0:01:06.160 --> 0:01:09.720 production in New York City flows through your offices, and 0:01:10.000 --> 0:01:12.760 we appreciate you coming down to talk to us about 0:01:12.800 --> 0:01:17.400 what it's like in this moment of incredible demand for content, 0:01:17.480 --> 0:01:21.200 particularly television content this moment of incredible demand. What it's 0:01:21.240 --> 0:01:26.039 like to run a sizeable, independent company at a time 0:01:26.080 --> 0:01:29.880 when the industry economics are also shifting radically. If you 0:01:29.920 --> 0:01:33.600 will tell us about right now where you see the 0:01:33.680 --> 0:01:37.600 most where you feel most optimistic for for long term 0:01:37.640 --> 0:01:41.960 growth for your business, Well, I think it's uh truly 0:01:42.040 --> 0:01:46.720 in the audience behavior. I think that what we're seeing 0:01:46.800 --> 0:01:53.040 in this radical shift and change that's taking place obviously 0:01:53.080 --> 0:01:56.880 due to technology. As a company, we anticipated it. We 0:01:57.240 --> 0:02:01.760 thought that this would eventually happen. Old media dies slowly, 0:02:01.760 --> 0:02:06.360 as we know, but in name itself, we embrace radical change. 0:02:06.520 --> 0:02:11.560 And I think that for for a company like ours, uh, 0:02:11.600 --> 0:02:16.640 in the multidisciplinary approach that we have to business. UH, 0:02:16.680 --> 0:02:19.280 it's been part of the ethos of the company. So 0:02:19.840 --> 0:02:23.280 while it is quite confusing, and will admit our heads 0:02:23.320 --> 0:02:27.680 are spinning at the daily announcements of yet another service 0:02:27.720 --> 0:02:31.120 in a new way in which content will be distributed, 0:02:31.919 --> 0:02:36.120 we feel fairly secure that as a company, we make content, 0:02:36.400 --> 0:02:41.040 and we've always embraced the concept of producing content that 0:02:41.080 --> 0:02:47.480 could live across multiple platforms. So it's crazy, it's challenging, 0:02:48.160 --> 0:02:53.000 but it's also exciting. At the same time. You Uh, 0:02:53.200 --> 0:02:56.000 the company in its current form kind of came together 0:02:56.080 --> 0:02:58.800 in the early nineties and you were sort of perfectly 0:02:58.840 --> 0:03:03.200 positioned to capalies on the growing demand at the time 0:03:03.280 --> 0:03:08.200 from cable for high end a lot of unscripted production. 0:03:08.680 --> 0:03:11.080 Can you talk about how the that the moment of 0:03:11.120 --> 0:03:14.520 the nineties boom in cable and the current boom that 0:03:14.520 --> 0:03:17.919 we're seeing from from digital buyers as well as linear 0:03:18.000 --> 0:03:22.520 TV buyers, how the two moments are different. Well, I 0:03:22.520 --> 0:03:26.960 think obviously the proliferation of channels that began in the 0:03:27.040 --> 0:03:31.880 nineties and then impacted by obviously digital media and the 0:03:31.919 --> 0:03:37.640 disruption of of digital was a in a sense almost 0:03:37.800 --> 0:03:41.720 uh forced us to change some of our plans. Uh. 0:03:41.960 --> 0:03:46.360 You know, in the earliest days of of of radical, 0:03:46.520 --> 0:03:50.200 of being radical, we were big promoters of single sponsored 0:03:50.200 --> 0:03:53.480 programming and the kind of back to the future scenario 0:03:53.840 --> 0:03:58.240 that would cut through the clutter of fragmentation of media 0:03:58.360 --> 0:04:03.280 and cut through some of the uh expansion of advertising 0:04:03.320 --> 0:04:07.040 on cable. Uh. That was quite successful for a while, 0:04:07.200 --> 0:04:12.480 but as broadband began to deliver and companies could resort 0:04:12.560 --> 0:04:17.200 to producing and publishing effectively their own content on their 0:04:17.200 --> 0:04:20.560 own websites, it kind of changed things. A little bit. 0:04:20.640 --> 0:04:25.839 The gatekeepers weren't there. The the programmers that were managing 0:04:25.920 --> 0:04:31.800 the networks weren't necessarily judging whether a program was appropriate 0:04:31.839 --> 0:04:35.240 for air or not, or for their air which was 0:04:35.279 --> 0:04:39.240 something uh different for let's say a brand or an advertiser. 0:04:39.600 --> 0:04:43.120 But from a programming standpoint, we just began to focus 0:04:43.160 --> 0:04:48.240 on producing quality programming for the various partners that we 0:04:48.320 --> 0:04:52.360 could seek out, and and documentary work was certainly an 0:04:52.360 --> 0:04:56.640 early sign of our strength. We obviously are known for 0:04:56.760 --> 0:05:02.520 our premium nonfiction work. Perhaps it's uh my own personal 0:05:03.320 --> 0:05:07.240 preference for nonfiction over overscripted, but I thought it was 0:05:07.279 --> 0:05:10.560 a place that we could we could stand out and uh, 0:05:10.720 --> 0:05:14.160 certainly in the early two thousands with programming that we 0:05:14.200 --> 0:05:18.039 did for companies like the Sundance Channel and Iconoclass and 0:05:18.120 --> 0:05:21.800 other things that we began to produce in documentaries that 0:05:21.880 --> 0:05:25.440 we made like The Fog of War winning an Academy Award, 0:05:25.640 --> 0:05:30.599 or the Concert for George or Joe Berlinger's or or 0:05:30.720 --> 0:05:35.480 second season of Paradise Lost, or or even as they 0:05:35.520 --> 0:05:38.600 moved on to things like Some kind of Monster. Uh. 0:05:38.760 --> 0:05:42.520 That became the signature of the company is when nonfiction 0:05:42.560 --> 0:05:47.280 and documentary style was really defining who we were as 0:05:47.279 --> 0:05:50.360 a company. And how do you make a living on documentaries? 0:05:50.960 --> 0:05:53.280 That's a great question. I don't think you do make 0:05:53.279 --> 0:05:56.640 a living on documentaries per se, although we are seeing 0:05:56.640 --> 0:06:00.280 a resurgence, thank god of box office for one or 0:06:00.279 --> 0:06:03.760 two films. But but I think with the advent of 0:06:04.440 --> 0:06:08.479 Netflix now and increasing the popularity of documentary and of 0:06:08.520 --> 0:06:12.960 course series based nonfiction is a strength of ours and 0:06:13.040 --> 0:06:16.520 one in which we are quite prolific today. Um and 0:06:16.560 --> 0:06:19.520 it's and it's it's something we enjoy and it's uh, 0:06:19.920 --> 0:06:22.680 it seems as if there's an audience there that really 0:06:22.839 --> 0:06:27.240 appreciates it. With all the programming that is out there, 0:06:27.320 --> 0:06:31.000 there's certainly people like myself who prefer nonfiction. And uh, 0:06:31.480 --> 0:06:34.880 we I think are in a great place in terms 0:06:34.880 --> 0:06:41.600 of the various distribution platforms that have constantly evolved, and 0:06:41.720 --> 0:06:45.800 with the advent of streaming and the multiple services that 0:06:45.839 --> 0:06:50.520 are announcing themselves every day, we're in a pretty decent 0:06:50.520 --> 0:06:53.680 demand in terms of content that we create. Yeah. I mean, 0:06:53.680 --> 0:06:57.359 even before we saw the influx of Netflix and Amazon money, 0:06:57.600 --> 0:07:01.960 you saw Discovery, Channel A and E Networks, Sundance. I mean, 0:07:02.480 --> 0:07:07.279 they were already becoming important funders of documentary. Is the 0:07:07.279 --> 0:07:12.800 theatrical release for documentaries? Is that becoming a very rarefied 0:07:12.880 --> 0:07:16.040 thing or do you still see a theatrical market. Well, 0:07:16.080 --> 0:07:20.440 I think the theatrical release for documentary is the brass ring. 0:07:21.240 --> 0:07:25.040 It's rare, and most people would say it never it 0:07:25.120 --> 0:07:28.840 never really can happen any longer until you come along 0:07:28.880 --> 0:07:32.880 to something as beautiful as Mr. Rogers and UH and 0:07:32.920 --> 0:07:35.640 Won't You Be My Neighbor, and also some of the 0:07:35.720 --> 0:07:38.960 other films the RPG as well as UH as as 0:07:39.000 --> 0:07:43.360 well as UH Free Free Solo. So you start you're 0:07:43.400 --> 0:07:47.400 starting to see perhaps an audience as theaters are improving 0:07:47.440 --> 0:07:50.120 themselves and becoming more comfortable to go to with the 0:07:50.200 --> 0:07:56.000 reserve seating and all the benefits of the concession stand, etcetera. Today, 0:07:56.040 --> 0:07:58.640 I think people are starting to enjoy seeing a good 0:07:58.680 --> 0:08:01.320 doc in a theater and ironment as well as at home. 0:08:01.840 --> 0:08:07.880 And I think that there's opportunity in the non fiction space. UM. 0:08:08.000 --> 0:08:11.520 We are certainly excited by it with projects that we're 0:08:11.560 --> 0:08:15.760 doing still for companies. Next weekend we'll have a premiere 0:08:15.800 --> 0:08:20.240 of a new documentary we've just done for Discovery. UM. 0:08:20.320 --> 0:08:24.840 It'll be UH in the competition with Ross Kaufman directing. 0:08:24.920 --> 0:08:28.880 And uh, it's based on the World Wildlife Fund, Uh, 0:08:29.320 --> 0:08:33.560 desire to preserve tigers around the world. Uh. So we're 0:08:33.600 --> 0:08:38.120 still in that business. We're still producing content for the Discoveries, 0:08:38.240 --> 0:08:41.000 not so much Sundance. We'd like to be doing more 0:08:41.040 --> 0:08:44.319 with Sundance. We had a great six years with Iconoclass, 0:08:44.440 --> 0:08:49.040 often pointed to as a as A as a benchmark 0:08:49.120 --> 0:08:53.959 show in that space, but for us, UH, the advent 0:08:54.080 --> 0:08:58.199 of Netflix and the way in which that served up 0:08:58.240 --> 0:09:00.600 in the way in which an order as has been 0:09:00.600 --> 0:09:06.400 consuming premium nonfiction. We've just recently premiered the Ted Bundy 0:09:06.760 --> 0:09:14.640 Show that will be on Netflix. Uh as of January. Uh, 0:09:14.880 --> 0:09:19.120 super excited for Joe Burlinger, who has been obviously super 0:09:19.160 --> 0:09:24.079 active in that true crime space. But interestingly, Joe is 0:09:24.200 --> 0:09:29.080 also just premiered his film on the subject of Bundy 0:09:29.160 --> 0:09:33.400 um at Sundance, and on practically the same weekend they've 0:09:33.480 --> 0:09:40.040 launched the documentary series, also directed by Accidental Um not 0:09:40.240 --> 0:09:46.840 completely accidental, quite actually bizarrely coincidental, but timing probably not. 0:09:47.120 --> 0:09:50.880 It is an anniversary And uh, who better than Joe. 0:09:50.960 --> 0:09:54.920 He's he's clearly a student of the subject. At this point, 0:09:55.240 --> 0:09:57.240 and these things you know that the Tiger project that 0:09:57.240 --> 0:10:00.160 I understand, Fisher seats Stevens worked on, and the Ted 0:10:00.200 --> 0:10:02.240 Bundy these things are not things that you put together 0:10:02.280 --> 0:10:05.040 in a couple of weeks. These are long term lots 0:10:05.040 --> 0:10:08.680 of research that shoe leather work of documentaries. I still 0:10:08.679 --> 0:10:10.880 want to drill down, like how how do you help 0:10:11.120 --> 0:10:15.840 support that? Do you get distribution money early or do 0:10:15.920 --> 0:10:18.200 you are there times when you guys write checks and 0:10:18.240 --> 0:10:21.560 you're not sure where it's going to go. We develop 0:10:21.720 --> 0:10:26.800 things with a very long tail. We are constantly searching 0:10:27.120 --> 0:10:31.120 and exploring the topics of interest. It's not all crime, 0:10:31.240 --> 0:10:36.880 thank god. Um. We are super excited about the development 0:10:36.960 --> 0:10:42.880 process in discovery and reading great books, reading great articles, materials. 0:10:42.920 --> 0:10:45.440 People come into us. We have a pretty open architecture. 0:10:46.080 --> 0:10:50.439 Radical is a community and it's one that I cherish. 0:10:50.600 --> 0:10:54.320 We have a lot of artists that consider Radical their home, 0:10:54.920 --> 0:11:01.320 whether they're directors, editors, filmmakers, producers, etcetera. And so things 0:11:01.440 --> 0:11:05.080 come into us as a Hopefully I'd like to think 0:11:05.080 --> 0:11:08.199 of us as a reliable partner that people UH want 0:11:08.240 --> 0:11:11.720 to be in business with, which is perhaps a secret 0:11:11.720 --> 0:11:15.600 to our longevity. But I think from a standpoint of 0:11:16.200 --> 0:11:20.200 being able to support an idea, being able to evolve 0:11:20.280 --> 0:11:24.840 an idea, finding the UH what we believe will be 0:11:24.920 --> 0:11:27.920 the secret sauce to making it something that a public 0:11:28.000 --> 0:11:33.240 will appreciate is our job. And within Radical we have 0:11:33.440 --> 0:11:37.640 this community of talent and and UH partners that are 0:11:37.800 --> 0:11:42.520 always looking for those projects. And the internal conversation that 0:11:42.600 --> 0:11:45.960 takes place is the development process for us. It's not 0:11:46.040 --> 0:11:48.600 as much as that we're writing checks, although we are 0:11:48.679 --> 0:11:52.800 optioning material based on I P based on books, etcetera. 0:11:52.840 --> 0:11:56.559 To support a project we might do, but we're mostly 0:11:56.720 --> 0:12:01.320 involved in development as a conversation and an internal conversation 0:12:01.679 --> 0:12:04.760 and a workshop and brainstorming it with the artists that 0:12:04.920 --> 0:12:07.640 call Radical home and you actually you call them your 0:12:07.760 --> 0:12:10.520 artists in Residents program. It's a reference I've made to 0:12:10.600 --> 0:12:12.840 the many people who have a desk into our office. 0:12:13.640 --> 0:12:17.120 We're all artists and residents. Uh. Some are more on 0:12:17.320 --> 0:12:21.280 staff than others UM and I think a very respectful 0:12:21.920 --> 0:12:27.760 term for people whose work I super appreciate and UH 0:12:27.800 --> 0:12:31.960 it's great to know that as an artist in residents 0:12:32.000 --> 0:12:35.480 they may be UH. Fisher Stevens is a great example 0:12:35.559 --> 0:12:39.640 of it. UH. Somebody who's pursuing many different things, including 0:12:39.640 --> 0:12:44.960 his acting career. But the opportunity to to cross pollinate 0:12:45.000 --> 0:12:49.800 our projects, to discuss the possibilities of doing something with 0:12:49.920 --> 0:12:53.040 someone like Fisher and the people whom he might bring 0:12:53.120 --> 0:12:56.720 in to talk about a project is extraordinary and it's 0:12:56.720 --> 0:12:59.200 part of the privilege of having him as an artist 0:12:59.280 --> 0:13:01.920 in Residents and we many others who we consider that. 0:13:02.800 --> 0:13:05.160 You did a terrific documentary a couple of years ago. 0:13:05.200 --> 0:13:09.480 What happened Miss Simone with Liz Garbus exactly, just really 0:13:10.160 --> 0:13:13.559 so well done, such illuminating a subject like that. That's 0:13:13.600 --> 0:13:15.640 got to be very gratifying to see when that, when 0:13:15.640 --> 0:13:18.080 something like that comes out and get such a claim, 0:13:18.160 --> 0:13:22.239 and it was super gratifying. It was a fabulous collaboration 0:13:22.400 --> 0:13:25.800 with Liz um. It was one in which we brought 0:13:25.840 --> 0:13:30.439 Liz into the project. Actually, my first conversation was with 0:13:30.520 --> 0:13:33.960 Liz was at a dinner for one of her films. 0:13:34.440 --> 0:13:39.200 Liz Garbs a very accomplished documentary producer and director exactly, 0:13:39.440 --> 0:13:42.880 and uh I was at a premiere for one of 0:13:42.920 --> 0:13:45.680 the films that she had just completed in with her 0:13:46.040 --> 0:13:48.080 producing partner. They turned to me and said, what are 0:13:48.080 --> 0:13:50.440 you working on next and I said, well, we're sort 0:13:50.440 --> 0:13:55.160 of circling this project around an incredible artist and one 0:13:55.240 --> 0:14:01.000 that who's highly misunderstood, Nina Simone, and the two of them, 0:14:01.120 --> 0:14:06.479 both Liz and Amy Hobby lit up at the prospect 0:14:06.559 --> 0:14:10.280 of it. Uh. We were approached by the daughter of 0:14:10.400 --> 0:14:13.959 Nina Simone, who knew us through another project. Speaking of 0:14:14.440 --> 0:14:17.680 years of development, we we had known the people who 0:14:17.679 --> 0:14:20.520 were brought the project to us for many years. One 0:14:20.520 --> 0:14:23.680 of the producers, Jason, was part of the part of 0:14:23.680 --> 0:14:26.800 the process and he approached us, and then eventually we 0:14:26.880 --> 0:14:30.720 brought Liz into the into the mix and produced a 0:14:30.800 --> 0:14:33.080 film that went all the way to the Academy Awards. 0:14:33.400 --> 0:14:37.400 Didn't win, but it's nice to be nominated. You were invited, 0:14:37.840 --> 0:14:40.800 And what does the what in your experience when because 0:14:40.840 --> 0:14:43.040 you've had you've been you know, you you've had the 0:14:43.120 --> 0:14:46.280 success with things like Fog of War. What does in 0:14:46.440 --> 0:14:49.000 this day and age, what does that kind of award 0:14:49.080 --> 0:14:52.400 season traction? Does that? Can that translate to dollars and 0:14:52.440 --> 0:14:56.960 cents on you know, video sales or streams or I 0:14:57.080 --> 0:15:02.920 think that obviously winning an award is as prestigious as 0:15:03.280 --> 0:15:07.960 being recognized for your work. Being nominated, quite frankly, even shortlisted. 0:15:08.400 --> 0:15:12.320 I think being recognized by your peers as an honor. UH. 0:15:12.480 --> 0:15:16.680 I don't think that actually winning the award itself is 0:15:16.760 --> 0:15:21.120 always the uh the secret to success. UH, having won 0:15:21.160 --> 0:15:24.560 many of them, it's uh, it looks nice on the mantel, 0:15:24.680 --> 0:15:28.120 but it's not. It's not. It's it's it. It just 0:15:28.880 --> 0:15:33.360 encourages you to continue to pursue your craft. And having 0:15:33.520 --> 0:15:36.320 one and been part of a film that won an 0:15:36.320 --> 0:15:40.280 Academy Award, having been there two other times for two 0:15:40.320 --> 0:15:46.920 great films, also for the Paradise Lost third installment to 0:15:47.000 --> 0:15:51.320 Paradise Loss with Joe Burlinger and Bruce Sinowski, UH losing 0:15:51.400 --> 0:15:56.600 to a high school football movie, Undefeated, which was UH 0:15:57.200 --> 0:16:02.200 an interesting year with three young men recently UH freed 0:16:02.320 --> 0:16:05.880 from wrongful incarceration and front page of the New York Times. 0:16:06.080 --> 0:16:08.760 We thought we had a good shot. We lost to 0:16:09.240 --> 0:16:14.160 Harvey Weinstein, but we have learned since, and we were very, 0:16:14.240 --> 0:16:17.840 very proud to be with Netflix for their first nomination 0:16:17.920 --> 0:16:23.080 of a the first original Netflix documentary. UH. And even 0:16:23.360 --> 0:16:27.040 Adam del Dao and Lisa reminded me that this past year, 0:16:27.120 --> 0:16:31.600 when they finally won for Icarus, that don't forget you 0:16:31.680 --> 0:16:36.200 were the first we brought them to the party. That's awesome. Well, 0:16:36.360 --> 0:16:39.360 what would you say at this point? Is your bread 0:16:39.360 --> 0:16:42.080 and butter? Is it the is it the multi episode 0:16:43.160 --> 0:16:48.920 unscripted programming for for cable and digital fires in You know, 0:16:49.280 --> 0:16:55.840 Radical has uh three verticals of its opportunity, so entertainment 0:16:55.960 --> 0:16:59.880 is clearly an important one and UH rising with a 0:17:00.040 --> 0:17:03.680 bullet in terms of opportunity for us, and in that space, 0:17:03.960 --> 0:17:07.960 premium nonfiction is our bread and butter. It's work that 0:17:08.040 --> 0:17:11.760 we do for all the various distribution platforms today there's 0:17:11.800 --> 0:17:15.199 no end to them, as well as the all the 0:17:15.240 --> 0:17:18.680 new ones being announced every day. But we're very privileged 0:17:18.720 --> 0:17:21.359 to have been working with many of the existing ones 0:17:21.880 --> 0:17:24.160 and working with some of the new ones that are 0:17:24.160 --> 0:17:28.560 about to be unleashed. UH. So we're UH, we're certainly 0:17:28.640 --> 0:17:33.800 focused on that business as a recurring series business as 0:17:33.840 --> 0:17:38.920 well as UH limited series. We're focusing on some development 0:17:38.960 --> 0:17:42.080 of some very important scripted material right now, some of 0:17:42.119 --> 0:17:47.080 it based on nonfiction, but the hybrid model of nonfiction 0:17:47.640 --> 0:17:52.120 scripted dramatization combined with script is an area that we're 0:17:52.200 --> 0:17:56.400 very active in. We have our Mars series on national geographic. 0:17:56.800 --> 0:18:00.480 We're just in production and completing production actually of a 0:18:00.600 --> 0:18:04.920 grant ulyssess Grant series based on the Ron Churnout book 0:18:05.280 --> 0:18:10.640 for the History Channel. Uh again, UH, super exciting project 0:18:10.800 --> 0:18:14.040 that we uh just finished production we're in post production on. 0:18:15.000 --> 0:18:18.919 We are looking at other projects like that as we speak, 0:18:19.400 --> 0:18:24.359 and we are very excited about some of the scripted 0:18:24.440 --> 0:18:29.160 material that we're developing based on factual UH stories that 0:18:29.240 --> 0:18:33.600 we think will make for very interesting scripted series or 0:18:33.640 --> 0:18:38.640 even documentaries. So we have a complete mix in that space. 0:18:39.480 --> 0:18:42.440 We are also as a company and part of our 0:18:42.600 --> 0:18:45.680 success is also coming from the work that we do 0:18:45.760 --> 0:18:50.440 in advertising. Uh. It's no secret that radicals roots began 0:18:50.520 --> 0:18:56.360 in advertising, and we still are quite active and UH 0:18:56.560 --> 0:19:00.439 significant player on a global basis. We work for major 0:19:00.520 --> 0:19:05.840 brands like Nike and uh, Apple and others that produce 0:19:06.520 --> 0:19:11.760 great commercial work and longer form content around the world. UH. 0:19:11.840 --> 0:19:15.800 We have a great relationship with both advertising agencies and 0:19:15.880 --> 0:19:21.400 many of the brands directly those That world is incredibly 0:19:21.480 --> 0:19:27.200 confused by the current media landscape as UH an audience's 0:19:27.280 --> 0:19:30.800 behavior as to how they're watching programming in the V 0:19:30.880 --> 0:19:35.359 O D universe. UM, it's not anymore it can't just 0:19:35.480 --> 0:19:39.760 be disruption and uh, I'll become a preacher of the 0:19:40.240 --> 0:19:44.440 or an evangelist for needing brands to rethink how they're 0:19:44.480 --> 0:19:46.639 going to reach an audience and not just think of 0:19:46.640 --> 0:19:51.280 them as consumers, but create something that's truly appreciated by 0:19:51.280 --> 0:19:56.119 that audience. And so we're working actively with brands. We're 0:19:56.160 --> 0:20:00.359 working on a global basis. With that, we will have 0:20:00.600 --> 0:20:05.960 a very robust traditional advertising business, but in another category 0:20:06.000 --> 0:20:09.320 of the company, what we call our studio, we are 0:20:09.359 --> 0:20:15.600 doing a lot of invasion innovation in experiential entertainment, immersive 0:20:15.920 --> 0:20:21.520 entertainment technology. We've always had with a name like Radical Media, 0:20:22.040 --> 0:20:24.720 we've always had a digital fluency as a part of 0:20:24.760 --> 0:20:28.960 the mix of artists and talent that work at Radical 0:20:29.119 --> 0:20:33.280 and that digital fluency allows us to think three dimensionally 0:20:33.359 --> 0:20:36.880 across all the platforms that we produce for whether it's 0:20:37.040 --> 0:20:42.280 entertainment or it's advertising, or in the original creation of 0:20:42.440 --> 0:20:47.439 experiential entertainment that we're doing in the studio section of 0:20:47.440 --> 0:20:50.119 the company. That must be great for you for talent 0:20:50.160 --> 0:20:54.479 scouting and for kind of identifying the next, you know, 0:20:54.560 --> 0:20:57.520 the next thing on the horizon in terms of in 0:20:57.600 --> 0:20:59.959 terms of production in terms of the way that consume 0:21:00.080 --> 0:21:03.520 or want to interact with content. Imagine that's that's really 0:21:03.520 --> 0:21:06.439 fertile ground for you. Well, the fertile ground is for 0:21:06.600 --> 0:21:11.080 talent that considers Radical their home. We truly can provide 0:21:11.119 --> 0:21:15.240 them with multiple platform opportunities. So you could take a 0:21:15.359 --> 0:21:19.760 young artist like Austin Peters who's enjoying UH producing a 0:21:19.840 --> 0:21:24.040 show for ESPN Plus right now with Lebron James more 0:21:24.080 --> 0:21:27.720 than an athlete. H Austin came to us through his 0:21:28.280 --> 0:21:33.120 music video career, has had a very successful commercial career 0:21:33.680 --> 0:21:39.320 and his also going on to series based programming UM, 0:21:39.400 --> 0:21:43.120 not just in a digital side button, developing original work 0:21:43.160 --> 0:21:48.680 as well. Derek c In France, homegrown talent at Radical 0:21:48.760 --> 0:21:51.560 has been with me many many years UH to see 0:21:51.600 --> 0:21:56.320 Derek's not only his his commercial career blossom as it has, 0:21:56.359 --> 0:22:00.000 but his now feature career. And we're looking at projects 0:22:00.200 --> 0:22:04.160 to eventually wear online with every studio and network as 0:22:04.160 --> 0:22:07.520 well to do some work with with Derek. But Derek 0:22:07.640 --> 0:22:10.560 still considers Radical as home, and even while he's in 0:22:10.560 --> 0:22:13.520 the middle of production of a very exciting new HBO show, 0:22:13.920 --> 0:22:16.880 he's working out of our offices and meeting with some 0:22:16.920 --> 0:22:19.640 of the key talent and developing it there and other 0:22:19.680 --> 0:22:21.960 people are working on that. So we we have the 0:22:22.000 --> 0:22:26.119 privilege of this cross pollination of all of the work 0:22:26.200 --> 0:22:29.480 that we do. UM happening in this one place that 0:22:29.560 --> 0:22:32.640 we call home. But it's a community, and it exists 0:22:32.680 --> 0:22:35.960 not just in New York, but in our Los Angeles office, 0:22:35.960 --> 0:22:40.280 in our London office, Berlin as well as Shanghai. You're 0:22:40.359 --> 0:22:46.040 you're widespread around the world. This might be hard to generalize, 0:22:46.040 --> 0:22:49.760 but would you say that the brand work that you do, 0:22:49.840 --> 0:22:54.199 whether it's brand initiatives for for a Nike or or 0:22:54.280 --> 0:22:57.560 even creative advertising, is it is it pound for pound? 0:22:57.600 --> 0:23:01.320 Is it more lucrative for radical to produce a commercial 0:23:01.359 --> 0:23:03.520 for a brand or do an experience for a brand? 0:23:04.160 --> 0:23:06.119 Or is it or is the home run still the 0:23:06.480 --> 0:23:09.880 multi part series that can be renewed. There's a there's 0:23:09.920 --> 0:23:13.040 a nuance of both. Uh, you know. The renewal of 0:23:13.080 --> 0:23:16.679 something like allows us to think ahead of ourselves and 0:23:16.760 --> 0:23:18.680 being able to think about what we're gonna be doing 0:23:18.760 --> 0:23:23.440 next year. Advertising generally is pretty reactive and sometimes doesn't 0:23:23.480 --> 0:23:26.600 know what it's doing from quarter to quarter, but we 0:23:27.680 --> 0:23:30.640 benefit from doing it all. Uh, you know, I I'm 0:23:30.720 --> 0:23:35.560 headed to visit a company to today tonight, UH, visiting 0:23:35.600 --> 0:23:38.840 a company that we make commercials for, but is smart 0:23:38.920 --> 0:23:41.320 enough to know they need to be doing something else. 0:23:41.480 --> 0:23:44.760 And being able to be part of that conversation and 0:23:44.840 --> 0:23:49.800 to have the uh, the credential to be able to 0:23:49.880 --> 0:23:53.080 be part of that bigger conversation is a privilege of 0:23:53.080 --> 0:23:56.600 being radical, radical and also having been doing it for 0:23:57.119 --> 0:23:59.280 many It's not as if we're new to the party. 0:23:59.320 --> 0:24:02.359 It's not as if we haven't done this before. The 0:24:03.320 --> 0:24:06.119 claim that we've gotten a critical acclaim that we've gotten 0:24:06.119 --> 0:24:08.800 for the show's maybe even some of the awards that 0:24:08.920 --> 0:24:12.720 we've won, have given us permission to speak on a 0:24:12.800 --> 0:24:17.919 much broader basis of possibility and UH. And as I 0:24:17.920 --> 0:24:21.000 said before, I'd like to think of us as evangelists 0:24:21.040 --> 0:24:24.479 in that category. How do you as a leader, you 0:24:24.520 --> 0:24:28.240 are the chairman, CEO. How do you We've I've seen 0:24:28.400 --> 0:24:34.480 you know many companies have success grow, but inevitably partners leave, 0:24:34.640 --> 0:24:37.919 projects go, there's fights, lawsuits. How do you? How have 0:24:37.960 --> 0:24:41.480 you kept radical media together in its current form since 0:24:41.480 --> 0:24:44.320 the early nineties, but the roots are even deeper. How 0:24:44.359 --> 0:24:46.640 have you kept it together? What is the what would 0:24:46.680 --> 0:24:49.800 you say have been keys to effective leadership of this 0:24:49.880 --> 0:24:56.480 incredibly creative operation. Well, I think it goes back to, uh, 0:24:56.640 --> 0:25:01.800 the concept of family and of community. I think that, um, 0:25:01.920 --> 0:25:05.880 we don't really have too many fights. We may have disagreements, 0:25:05.920 --> 0:25:11.200 but we don't have fights. Um. All families are sometimes 0:25:11.560 --> 0:25:17.080 a little dysfunctional, but dysfunctionality can lead to great things. Uh. 0:25:17.200 --> 0:25:20.719 I think that it's been a terrific partnership of different 0:25:20.760 --> 0:25:26.720 people in different categories of their responsibilities. And UH, I'd 0:25:26.720 --> 0:25:30.520 like to think that as the ringmaster, along with my 0:25:30.640 --> 0:25:34.560 partner Frank Sherma, has been We've been together for almost 0:25:34.600 --> 0:25:39.280 thirty years in our careers. UH. And Frank was recently 0:25:41.160 --> 0:25:44.680 elected as the chairman of the Television Academy, which I'm 0:25:44.800 --> 0:25:48.240 so incredibly proud of him as well. Yeah, arts and 0:25:48.240 --> 0:25:52.560 Sciences based in New York, which is an amazing accomplishment 0:25:52.680 --> 0:25:56.879 for for Frank and one that I'm particularly proud of. 0:25:56.920 --> 0:26:00.639 But I think our leadership and the part ownership with 0:26:00.680 --> 0:26:02.760 different people, in the way in which we've been able 0:26:02.760 --> 0:26:05.760 to work with people who have been part of the company, 0:26:05.800 --> 0:26:09.120 We've had an incredible record of people staying with us 0:26:09.160 --> 0:26:14.359 for a long time. And UH, and even when they leave, Uh, 0:26:14.640 --> 0:26:18.440 we remain generally pretty good friends and they come back 0:26:18.440 --> 0:26:21.800 to visit me constantly, And Uh, I think it's because 0:26:21.960 --> 0:26:26.399 of the relationship that we built and the road that 0:26:26.480 --> 0:26:29.600 we decided to take in terms of looking towards the 0:26:29.640 --> 0:26:32.679 future and always thinking about the future and a vision 0:26:32.800 --> 0:26:36.080 for what's next with the company, which i'd like to 0:26:36.119 --> 0:26:39.159 think of is my job. Well, that speaks It speaks 0:26:39.160 --> 0:26:41.480 well of how you treat people, for sure. Tell us, 0:26:41.480 --> 0:26:44.480 speaking of what's next? What for nineteen what are we 0:26:44.800 --> 0:26:46.560 give us a hint of a couple of things that 0:26:46.600 --> 0:26:51.200 are brewing that you're excited about. Well, I think that 0:26:51.800 --> 0:26:54.879 from a standpoint of conversations that we're having right now 0:26:55.000 --> 0:26:58.120 and a little too soon to announce some of the projects. 0:26:58.200 --> 0:27:04.280 But we have been uh incredibly active in producing and 0:27:04.800 --> 0:27:10.159 selling and developing and production on shows across almost every 0:27:10.320 --> 0:27:16.560 key distribution platform out there right now, from networks to 0:27:17.400 --> 0:27:22.439 streamers and new platforms of technology. So, uh, we have 0:27:22.600 --> 0:27:27.160