Speaker 1: Mmmm. Welcome to the State of the Lakers podcast. I
Speaker 1: hope everybody had a great weekend. I Roger, how did
Speaker 1: how did your weekend go? Let's start there. Actually it
Speaker 1: was really good. I went to, um, six Flags Magic Mountain.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you've heard of that, but um,
Speaker 1: it's like a roller coaster theme park, a bunch of
Speaker 1: like thrill lot throw rides and stuff like that that
Speaker 1: when lost my voice on Sunday, So I'm glad, like
Speaker 1: we got a little extra day layover. Do they have
Speaker 1: anything like that? And she's not, like we have like
Speaker 1: six I think we have six Flags in Phoenix, although
Speaker 1: I've never Okay, so you're not a roller coaster really
Speaker 1: person or love roller coasters? Just haven't been my wife, Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: so those are fun. Yeah, it's kind of a scam
Speaker 1: to me because like you wait one hour for like
Speaker 1: a your best bet is like a one minute and
Speaker 1: a half ride. So basically like we went on nine
Speaker 1: rides in nine hours, which I mean the day flies
Speaker 1: by a little bit, but nine degree whether you start
Speaker 1: questioning yourself like this right, Superman is literally thirty seconds long,
Speaker 1: but the weight is about an hour and a half.
Speaker 1: So by the by the end, you're kind of like,
Speaker 1: did I get scammed? You know? So, um, but yeah,
Speaker 1: I went through that. Yeah, I'm not a huge theme
Speaker 1: park guy for that very reason. I like I I
Speaker 1: like to think I'm a nice guy, but I'm not
Speaker 1: a fan of being around people, which I don't like.
Speaker 1: I don't really know how that works, but that's that's
Speaker 1: kind of the way I am. Um. Anyway, but I
Speaker 1: had a basketball heavy weekend. We the men that I
Speaker 1: played in we had a double header on Sunday and
Speaker 1: then we just kind of chilled tou put some golf
Speaker 1: on Saturday. Is pretty low key anyway. Today, we're gonna
Speaker 1: talk about Game five of the NBA Finals, um really briefly,
Speaker 1: just for about ten fifteen minutes, just kind of because
Speaker 1: I felt like it was almost a continuation of Game
Speaker 1: four in a lot of ways, with exception of the
Speaker 1: fact that Drew Holiday made more shots than he usually does, uh,
Speaker 1: and Chris Paul was a little bit better. His numbers
Speaker 1: I thought were a little better than he actually was.
Speaker 1: But then we're gonna talk a little bit about how
Speaker 1: what what this Bucks victory means for the Lakers and
Speaker 1: their team building strategy. Um and and just whether or
Speaker 1: not it should adjust their strategy this summer as they're
Speaker 1: kind of making some moves on the periphery of their
Speaker 1: core players and the roster. And then, last but not least,
Speaker 1: I was not overly active on Twitter, although Raj was
Speaker 1: a witness to the catastrophe that was the Hoopers versus
Speaker 1: basketball players debate that took place in Twitter spaces. I
Speaker 1: have some thoughts on that. Rog has some thoughts on that.
Speaker 1: So we're gonna get to that after we talk about
Speaker 1: the game. But let's start. Let's start with the game.
Speaker 1: Um you know, I was super wrong about this series, uh,
Speaker 1: right up until the point where I was very raw wrong,
Speaker 1: if that, if that makes sense, like I was, I
Speaker 1: picked the Sons in five. I thought they were the
Speaker 1: more skilled team. I thought they were the more talented team.
Speaker 1: I thought it would manifest over the course of the series.
Speaker 1: Um And in a lot of ways. You know, it
Speaker 1: was close to that. You know, a couple of things
Speaker 1: go differently in Game four, they could have been up
Speaker 1: three one, and then same goes for Game five. But
Speaker 1: it's important when you're wrong, in my opinion, it's it's
Speaker 1: important to try to identify why you were wrong. And
Speaker 1: you know, one of the one of the key reasons
Speaker 1: why I think I was wrong is I've undervalued the
Speaker 1: way that physicality will eventually win the day. And the
Speaker 1: examples that we used to kind of try to talk
Speaker 1: about how maybe shot making and skill we're taking over,
Speaker 1: where teams like Philly losing, in teams like the Lakers losing,
Speaker 1: when the reality was the Lakers lost because Anthony Davis
Speaker 1: got hurt, and the Sixers lost because outside of Joel
Speaker 1: and b didn't have anybody that could create a shot
Speaker 1: for themselves, and in their offense got really, really stagnant
Speaker 1: at the end of those games. So I think we
Speaker 1: overthought that a little bit, and I put a lot
Speaker 1: of emphasis on how the Lakers desperately needed more shot
Speaker 1: making and how they desperately needed more shooting, and and
Speaker 1: I think the Bucks are evidence of the fact that
Speaker 1: that's kind of wrong, because when you get to this
Speaker 1: point and the physicality takes over and the refing takes on,
Speaker 1: this type of you know, these types of tendencies and uh,
Speaker 1: and it just becomes almost like this battle of attrition,
Speaker 1: like whose body is gonna hold up the longest? You
Speaker 1: see guys like Chris Paul wearing down. You know, Devin Booker,
Speaker 1: God bless him, just keeps making shots, but you know
Speaker 1: at some point he's gonna start missing some shots. And
Speaker 1: the thinner players on the Sun seemed to just be
Speaker 1: kind of getting run rough, shot over by these the
Speaker 1: like by these big, huge, strong the NFL player looking
Speaker 1: basketball players that play for the Bucks and and so
Speaker 1: do you think do you think maybe that that maybe
Speaker 1: we jumped the gun a little bit on some of
Speaker 1: this stuff having to do with skill and what wins
Speaker 1: in the NBA? Well, first thing, did you bet on
Speaker 1: this last one as well? Or no? I have not
Speaker 1: bet since I law okay, okay, I was wondering, Um,
Speaker 1: I thought, Phoenix, I think this is at least this
Speaker 1: is where I was wrong. I don't know about you.
Speaker 1: I did not think Chris Paul would be taken out
Speaker 1: like this. Like I know Drew Holiday is a really defender.
Speaker 1: I totally understand that, but like this is the stage
Speaker 1: where the you know, the people who are on that
Speaker 1: list where Chris Paul is, He's a top whatever point guard,
Speaker 1: however you feel about however you feel about his antics,
Speaker 1: all the other ship he does to try to win
Speaker 1: you have to give him his credit. He's a big time,
Speaker 1: all time point guard. This is a stage where you
Speaker 1: show up like it is what it is. I did
Speaker 1: not expect him to be played off like this, Like
Speaker 1: there were possessions. I was writing it down. Second quarter,
Speaker 1: Chris Paul comes off the screen, Drew Holidays on his hip,
Speaker 1: takes a tough shot. Missus again comes down, takes a
Speaker 1: tough shot. Next next possession, he goes, stands in the
Speaker 1: corner for like the next three possessions, just absolutely relegated
Speaker 1: to the corner as a corner spacer. That's and Drew
Speaker 1: Holiday wins in that situation. Now it's just Devin Book.
Speaker 1: You're trying to create one on four like it's That's
Speaker 1: the thing where I did not see coming. I did
Speaker 1: not see him just struggling like this. His line is
Speaker 1: very um, I don't say fake. But he finished nine
Speaker 1: for fifteen. He hit his last five shots, so he
Speaker 1: was basically four for ten when the game was in
Speaker 1: his real balance. Chris Paul made this run. They made
Speaker 1: their run obviously to try to make it close. I
Speaker 1: couldn't believe that that he fouled, honest, Like, this is
Speaker 1: one of the most highest basketball i Q dudes in
Speaker 1: the league, Like he just can't file your honest in
Speaker 1: that situation, you know, and we can debate it, yeah,
Speaker 1: debated dirty player, dirty player or not. But to me,
Speaker 1: that's the change here is Chris Paul being completely taken
Speaker 1: out of this series. Devin book is hitting you know,
Speaker 1: crazy and saint shots. But that's where I was wrong
Speaker 1: at least do you see that as well? Like, I
Speaker 1: think the physicality has gotten to him, right, I didn't
Speaker 1: think it would at this much law at this level,
Speaker 1: Like he's been really taken out. He can't do anything
Speaker 1: that Chris Paul does, even though his thirty six, but
Speaker 1: still like this, I didn't see him getting taken out
Speaker 1: like this. Yeah, So I think that, uh, Chris Paul's
Speaker 1: inability to gain an advantage against Drew Holiday, has he
Speaker 1: actually been the downfall of this series because it kind
Speaker 1: of manifests both ways. So I think that that uh,
Speaker 1: a lot of the discourse surrounding Devin Booker and his
Speaker 1: unwillingness to pass that I'm sure you've seen seen some
Speaker 1: of something that's been floating around. I don't think that's
Speaker 1: Devin Booker's fault. I think I think it has to
Speaker 1: do with the defensive scheme of Milwaukee. They are not
Speaker 1: sending help on these isolations and pick and rolls with
Speaker 1: Drew Holiday, with Drew Holiday on on CP three and
Speaker 1: with uh PJ. Tucker on Devin Booker. The reason why
Speaker 1: is CP three literally cannot gain an advantage. He's being
Speaker 1: an inefficient score with Drew Holiday on him, and Devin
Speaker 1: Booker is being a high volume score, like he's getting
Speaker 1: forty points, but it's taking him thirty shots. And so
Speaker 1: from that perspective, I think they're staying home on all
Speaker 1: these shooters, and as a result, they're not getting these
Speaker 1: wide open corner threes that they got against the Lakers
Speaker 1: and that they got against the Clip is that they
Speaker 1: got against the Nuggets, that they got against everybody. They're
Speaker 1: not getting any of those, and so as a result,
Speaker 1: it's like Devin Booker just going off is basically they're
Speaker 1: only offense and until one of them can consistently draw
Speaker 1: a second defender, which I think it would require CP
Speaker 1: three because clearly Buddenholzer's like, I want Devin Booker to
Speaker 1: go off. I'd rather let him have forty and none
Speaker 1: of the other guys get shots. So if the cascading
Speaker 1: effect that you and I always talk about, you know,
Speaker 1: gravity works both ways. You know, you your spot up
Speaker 1: shooters have a form of gravity. If they're knocking everything down,
Speaker 1: they pull guys away from your stars as they're working
Speaker 1: into the paint. But the gravity works in reverse. If
Speaker 1: your stars can consistently generate such an advantage that you
Speaker 1: have to send help, then the gravity sucks everybody in
Speaker 1: and then the shots start coming. So the only way
Speaker 1: that they can go into Milwaukee and win is if
Speaker 1: Chris Paul starts to cook Drew Holiday in a way
Speaker 1: that starts requiring the Bucks to send help. But what
Speaker 1: sign have you seen that would make you think that
Speaker 1: that's going to happen, because again, you it's so easy
Speaker 1: to be like he's old, he's wearing down, Drew's physicality
Speaker 1: is wearing him down. But they have two days off
Speaker 1: before every game, Like like I don't think people realize
Speaker 1: that part, Like two days off before every game. He's
Speaker 1: basically going into these games unless he has an injury.
Speaker 1: He's going into these games as fresh as you're going
Speaker 1: to be. In a playoff game like that, that's as
Speaker 1: fresh as you're going to be. He just physically now
Speaker 1: that Drew Holiday is like duned into all of his moves,
Speaker 1: he physically cannot get by him, and he physically cannot
Speaker 1: gain an advantage in the mid range, at the three
Speaker 1: point line. Anywhere he can't get he can't gain the advantage.
Speaker 1: It requires almost a defensive breakdown for for him to
Speaker 1: be able to get a look. So I don't know,
Speaker 1: I don't I probably will put money on Milwaukee tonight
Speaker 1: because just strictly from the the pathway of the the
Speaker 1: way this the series is broken down, I don't see
Speaker 1: advantages for the Suns to gain tonight that would allow
Speaker 1: them to hang in front of twenty thousand bucks fans
Speaker 1: that smell the title. Yeah, and and I trust the
Speaker 1: honest as a leader to keep those guys focused. And
Speaker 1: I I I I if I'm a Sun's fan, I'm
Speaker 1: feeling really bleak right now. I'll give Suns fan a
Speaker 1: little bit of hope in a bit. But like you
Speaker 1: mentioned Devin Booker, Um, it's not like his forty is
Speaker 1: Like it's not like he's open because Chris Paul's covered,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Like he's taking tough shots
Speaker 1: coming off the pick and roll, hitting really tough contested twos,
Speaker 1: and we we knew Phoenix was a high ball, screening
Speaker 1: heavy team. Like their guards aren't like crazy athletic, they
Speaker 1: don't are really shifty, don't get by you, but they
Speaker 1: Like what Milwaukee has done to me is they've kept
Speaker 1: every screen and roll like a two on two right,
Speaker 1: Like it's not like a it's not five on five,
Speaker 1: it's not a four on five situation. They kept it
Speaker 1: two on two, and that makes it um really tough,
Speaker 1: I guess for Milwaukee, like for Phoenix, Drew and Drew
Speaker 1: and Middleton took forty five shots in game In game five,
Speaker 1: I think five of them were at the rim, So
Speaker 1: like when I just look at those numbers, like those
Speaker 1: are shots you have to kind of live with. Like
Speaker 1: I feel like Drew and Milton both hit really tough,
Speaker 1: kind of contested shots. The place the game changed to
Speaker 1: me was the Sounds were up six team Devin Booker
Speaker 1: went off the floor for five minutes. I think they
Speaker 1: changed that to a one point lead when Devin Booker
Speaker 1: came back, Like you that just can't happen, Like you
Speaker 1: work so hard to get that kind of lead, you
Speaker 1: can't give it away in five minutes and I think
Speaker 1: that's where they need to fix Chris Paul. If it's
Speaker 1: not going, you have to put Booker back in, Like
Speaker 1: this is do or die. He can't sit six s
Speaker 1: three minutes? Like do you think that's possible? Do you
Speaker 1: think he'll get worn down by doing that? Like he
Speaker 1: played the whole second half and I thought he was fine.
Speaker 1: Like I feel like that six minute break in the
Speaker 1: first step changed the game to me, Like it it
Speaker 1: let Milwaukee come back, You're honest, gotten a rhythm, he
Speaker 1: got to the rim by that time, it was they
Speaker 1: were bulldozed over. They went up ten, and that was
Speaker 1: kind of the game. But DC does what do you
Speaker 1: think Devin Booker can go the whole forty eight or
Speaker 1: is that like something Monty can't really do with him
Speaker 1: just because of his workload. I guess on the floor
Speaker 1: he might have to. One of the hard things is
Speaker 1: Milwaukee has done a really nice job of attacking Devon
Speaker 1: Booker to make him work, to try to wear him out.
Speaker 1: In that regard, uh zach Low had Tim leig larn
Speaker 1: Yesterday is actually a really interesting podcast. I appreciate Tim's
Speaker 1: perspective on on everything because he's kind of like one
Speaker 1: of the best, he's one of the better former player
Speaker 1: analysis that we have in the league, because like he oh,
Speaker 1: he's awesome. But but Zack Low brought up the stat
Speaker 1: that I think and I'm I'm like, sure I have
Speaker 1: the stat right, but don't take don't take me at
Speaker 1: face value at this But anyway, uh, In forty minutes
Speaker 1: this series with Devin Booker off the floor, the Sons
Speaker 1: have been outscored by thirty seven points, which is almost
Speaker 1: a point per minute, which is outrageous. That's that's the
Speaker 1: wheels coming off literally. So again, like I said early year,
Speaker 1: to me, this series completely swung on the fact that
Speaker 1: they never had to send any help at Chris Paul.
Speaker 1: Now they should in theory, like if if if the team,
Speaker 1: you know, if if this was a regular season matchup
Speaker 1: against a lesser version of the Son's team, you throw
Speaker 1: a bunch more help at Devin Booker because guys can't
Speaker 1: make shots. But by strategy either letting Devin Booker go
Speaker 1: and like you said, it's not it's not your Steph Curry,
Speaker 1: Kevin Durant, Kyrie Irving forty points on twenty shots, it's
Speaker 1: forty points on thirty two shots, because almost every shot
Speaker 1: Devin Booker takes is in the midrange. He you know,
Speaker 1: this is something I can't even remember who it was,
Speaker 1: but somebody brought up as a weakness a while back.
Speaker 1: Devin Booker is actually kinda not great as an off
Speaker 1: the dribble three point shooter. This is something that Jayson
Speaker 1: Tatum has done a really good job early in his
Speaker 1: career as he's turned a lot of like side step
Speaker 1: and and lateral step step back type of threes into
Speaker 1: his repertoire, so that even though he does take range shots,
Speaker 1: he's getting a lot of off the dribble, high quality
Speaker 1: three point shots. That's what Chris Middleton and Paul George
Speaker 1: do super well. Um. That's now, mind you, they're a
Speaker 1: little bit taller, But that's something that Devin Booker needs
Speaker 1: to add to his game so that he can be
Speaker 1: more efficient in terms of the amount of damage that
Speaker 1: he's doing per shot attempt. Um. And and that's nitpicking
Speaker 1: because he's been unbelievable in this series, to be clear,
Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, it's it's really
Speaker 1: that simple. If you don't have to send help at
Speaker 1: the stars, then you could stay home on all the shooters,
Speaker 1: none of the role players get going, and you're basically
Speaker 1: begging two small guys to try to beat you. And
Speaker 1: Devin Booker's relatively small compared to stars, about six five
Speaker 1: and and you know, and and that's the thing. This
Speaker 1: is something you and I talked about all the time. Like,
Speaker 1: when Janice puts his head down and goes to the rim,
Speaker 1: you are not stopping him unless you put multiple bodies
Speaker 1: in front of him. So every single possession down the floor,
Speaker 1: Janice is generating some form of of you know, condensing
Speaker 1: of the defense, which is generating high quality shots one
Speaker 1: way or another. There were there were plays at the
Speaker 1: end of that game in game five where it doesn't
Speaker 1: necessarily get attributed to Janice, but it should. There was
Speaker 1: one where, uh, Janice kind of just took a really
Speaker 1: hard dribble to the left, and I think it was
Speaker 1: Devin Booker or might have been CP three whoever was
Speaker 1: guarding Drew Holiday had to take a lunch step into
Speaker 1: the lane to cut off, to cut off your honest
Speaker 1: quick swing to Drew. He closes out like it's it's
Speaker 1: a decent close out, but Drew beats him to the
Speaker 1: baseline and he's on his hip. It's not bad defense
Speaker 1: behind the stretch of the imagination, but Drew gets all
Speaker 1: the way into the paint and kicked it out to
Speaker 1: uh to Chris Middleton, and he ended up knocking down
Speaker 1: a three. That is an advantage game play that started
Speaker 1: with Janice drawing a second defender, which then cascaded into
Speaker 1: a wide open three for Chris Middleton and in crunch
Speaker 1: time of of a pivotal playoff game. That's the thing,
Speaker 1: and this is what this is what Lebron and a
Speaker 1: d do to do all the time that we take
Speaker 1: for granted. Like if you let Anthony Davis and Lebron
Speaker 1: play isolation all game the way they let Booker, it's
Speaker 1: forty on twenty shots because they're living at their rim,
Speaker 1: they're absolutely destroying you. Whereas with Devin Booker, it's this
Speaker 1: like heroic, like incredibly difficult shot making, which again brings
Speaker 1: a great deal of value, but it's not the same
Speaker 1: as the physical dominance that absolutely requires you to send
Speaker 1: multiple defenders at and and that to me, has been
Speaker 1: where this series has spun. Like all playoffs against the Lakers,
Speaker 1: against the Nuggets, and against the Clippers, the Sun's got
Speaker 1: all kinds of fantastic three point shots for Crowder and
Speaker 1: for Cam Johnson and for uh, for Michael Bridges. All
Speaker 1: those guys were just getting catch and shoot threes and
Speaker 1: they're not getting any of those. Uh. Zach Low pointed
Speaker 1: out in the pot. I think they've had thirteen corner
Speaker 1: threes total in the whole series in five games. That's
Speaker 1: awful for them. Yeah. I think he's had like almost
Speaker 1: three quarters. That came in Game two, So I think
Speaker 1: they've had like six and like four games or something.
Speaker 1: And again that's all because they don't have to send
Speaker 1: help like and and I heard, and it was great
Speaker 1: to hear, like Zach Low and Tim Legger I think
Speaker 1: talked about it too, talked about how Aden needs to
Speaker 1: be the guy, like he needs to be able, the
Speaker 1: guy that punished inside um. And that's why I keep
Speaker 1: harpening on Aiden, because like he's the one that needs
Speaker 1: to be the inside force and he's just not. He
Speaker 1: had twenty and ten last night, Like I didn't even
Speaker 1: know that until you go back and look at the stats.
Speaker 1: Like I think that kind of showed um he wasn't
Speaker 1: really putting his stamp on the game. Like even the
Speaker 1: twenty and ten. Didn't feel like it was dominating, Like
Speaker 1: it felt like his shots were just coming. Uh, they
Speaker 1: weren't really like putting pressure on Milwaukee to send extra
Speaker 1: help or anything like that because he played four He
Speaker 1: played five minutes, so it's like it's twenty and ten.
Speaker 1: But on a per thirty six s basis, that's like
Speaker 1: going for sixteen and seven, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: because he was just out there so long. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: And again, he needs to be a force inside and
Speaker 1: maybe I don't know if that's on the guards. I
Speaker 1: really am not sure, but like he needs to be
Speaker 1: better than Duccans, like and they're sending help, but like
Speaker 1: and his kind of reaction time isn't as quick. And
Speaker 1: I don't blame him. He's in his third year in
Speaker 1: the NBA Finals, Like this is the most this is
Speaker 1: the top of the top basketball level, so um, and
Speaker 1: he will get better at that. But for them, they
Speaker 1: need him in this series to be a force. I'm
Speaker 1: not sure how many free that he got six free
Speaker 1: throws I think, which again is just in forty two minutes,
Speaker 1: Like that's not enough for a team that's going small
Speaker 1: as much as they did. And also Brook Lopez has
Speaker 1: been a lot better. I feel like like he's not
Speaker 1: getting killed as he was. He's showing higher. And we
Speaker 1: talked about how Bud is like a reactionary puncher. I
Speaker 1: didn't expect them to punch back like this, Like if
Speaker 1: they win tomorrow, that's four straight wins. Like that's that's
Speaker 1: that's gonna be tough for Phoenix to kind of sleep on.
Speaker 1: Like you go up to oh, you should be able
Speaker 1: to take one more like they should go at least seven. Um,
Speaker 1: but Milwaukee looks in total control here. Um they look
Speaker 1: ready that they went down sixteen and didn't blink. It
Speaker 1: felt like when I was watching the game, like it
Speaker 1: didn't feel like they got startled, got nervous, continued to
Speaker 1: round their stuff. Um, Chris Paul missed like four straight
Speaker 1: shots and that was they came back. So what we'll
Speaker 1: see and get we'll see tonight, I guess. So last
Speaker 1: topic on this game before we get out of here.
Speaker 1: How does Phoenix go in and win in game six?
Speaker 1: Like what has to go right for them? To me?
Speaker 1: Chris Paul has to build on whatever he did um
Speaker 1: in game five, like he hit his last five shots.
Speaker 1: I thought they were in rhythm. I thought they were
Speaker 1: still kind of tough shots. But it's the shots that
Speaker 1: he gets, like he has to hit those those little
Speaker 1: his little patented um crossover, dribble, mid range pull up,
Speaker 1: those little step back he has to get in any
Speaker 1: kind of rhythm to give Devin Booker some kind of, uh,
Speaker 1: take pressure off him. And now I thought Zachlem made
Speaker 1: a good point. Is I don't know who made this point.
Speaker 1: I don't remember Zachala or not. But Chris Paul is
Speaker 1: getting picked up like full court, coming up the court
Speaker 1: and then trying to run offense like he's dead by
Speaker 1: the third quarter, like they got to have other people
Speaker 1: try to bring it up campaign Devin Booker maybe brings
Speaker 1: the ball up. He doesn't get as ball pressured in
Speaker 1: the back court. Something you talk about all the time.
Speaker 1: Having Shrewder bring the ball up saves Lebron's legs. It's
Speaker 1: it's a it's wasted energy to face ball pressure for
Speaker 1: no particular reason exactly. Chris Paul gets turned. They call
Speaker 1: it getting turned right. He gets turned like three or
Speaker 1: four times before he gets to the court, and then
Speaker 1: the shot clocks like at fifteen seconds. Then he calls
Speaker 1: up eight and it comes at the screen. Drew is
Speaker 1: on his hip, so it's not like he's getting very
Speaker 1: much separation comes off. Aidan's not open, Lopez still stays
Speaker 1: with him, and then it's like Chris Paul trying to
Speaker 1: creator gives it the den Bookers for some hero shot
Speaker 1: and that's where the shots are going. Um Bridges and
Speaker 1: crowded aren't getting looks. So it's basically them too, taking
Speaker 1: fifty percent of the shots from the mid range. That's
Speaker 1: not a winning recipe to me, even if Booker is
Speaker 1: hitting them at the rate he's hitting at. So that's
Speaker 1: when they needed to go. What do you think? What
Speaker 1: does Peelings have to do to win this game? Six?
Speaker 1: Real quickly? Did you did you play on small in
Speaker 1: high school at all? I did. I played at this
Speaker 1: little small school in l A. But I played for
Speaker 1: like the first two years and then I got transferred
Speaker 1: to another school, so I didn't. Did you ever have
Speaker 1: to do the Turner man drill? You know what I'm
Speaker 1: talking about? Many? Yeah? Yeah, So where you like, yeah? Yeah,
Speaker 1: of course where you started the officers baseline and then
Speaker 1: they dribble left and they dribble riding you stay with
Speaker 1: ye It's the most common drill and basketball every single level,
Speaker 1: the high school teams, my my college teams, every single
Speaker 1: team that I played on did this drill. And uh,
Speaker 1: it's like they call it turner man five times in
Speaker 1: the length of the floor. You have to try to
Speaker 1: turn your man defensively five times. And regardless of whether
Speaker 1: you're the ball handler or the defensive player, that drill
Speaker 1: is completely exhausting. Like I always viewed it's I always
Speaker 1: viewed it as a conditioning drill as much as it
Speaker 1: was a ball handling drill mixed with a you know,
Speaker 1: defensive principles kind of a kind of drill. And you're right,
Speaker 1: like it just it just wears you down. And you know, again,
Speaker 1: there's a huge difference between like, uh, forty minutes playing
Speaker 1: one way and forty minutes playing you know, a different,
Speaker 1: less intense way. Like I'm gonna go play pick up
Speaker 1: this afternoon and I'm probably gonna walk up the floor
Speaker 1: a lot of the possessions and I might play for
Speaker 1: an hour and a half and it's gonna be super
Speaker 1: light and easy. But like if I was playing twenty
Speaker 1: five minutes in a high level competitive game where I
Speaker 1: have much more responsibilities, I'm gonna be completely beaten, exhausted.
Speaker 1: It's it is crazy how much of a difference that
Speaker 1: kind of thing, uh, that kind of thing makes. But anyway,
Speaker 1: as far as getting a win down in down in Milwaukee,
Speaker 1: I think it starts and ends with avoiding the first
Speaker 1: punch if you can somehow whether that first we're gonna
Speaker 1: win the title tonight punch that comes in front of
Speaker 1: that home crowd, and then just hang in there long
Speaker 1: enough to where crunch time offense becomes an issue for Milwaukee,
Speaker 1: because all year long the Sons were an extremely good
Speaker 1: clutch team and the Bucks had their issues and crunch time.
Speaker 1: One of the things that's been kind of a revelation
Speaker 1: in this series is how great Chris Middleton has been
Speaker 1: at the end of these games. He's always been a
Speaker 1: gifted closer in terms of his ability to create his
Speaker 1: own shot, but in this particular postseason, he's been more consistent.
Speaker 1: It used to be he was an inconsistent type of
Speaker 1: cloth during these games. He's made gigantic shots in this
Speaker 1: playoff run, including the shot the little turnaround around the
Speaker 1: free throw line that beat the Brooklyn Nets literally in
Speaker 1: overtime of Game seven. This guy in Game four and
Speaker 1: in game five, made big shot after big shot. You
Speaker 1: just if if he you know, returns to the mean
Speaker 1: a little bit, so to speak, and Janice is forced
Speaker 1: to make some of those decisions, you might be able
Speaker 1: to steal this game. And again, if you steal this game,
Speaker 1: historically game seven at home, the home team usually wins.
Speaker 1: It's like the percentages in the high seventies, if I
Speaker 1: if I remember correctly, So to me, it's about keeping
Speaker 1: it close to where your advantage can take effect, which
Speaker 1: is in crunch time. As far as how to keep
Speaker 1: it close, it's extremely smart and uh um disciplined defense.
Speaker 1: Milwaukee has struggled to score in the half court. They've
Speaker 1: scored well in transition. In the half court, it's been
Speaker 1: very physical, it's been very rudimentary. So if you have
Speaker 1: your principles intact, and you're and you're positioning yourself between
Speaker 1: them and the rim, you'll force them to make shots
Speaker 1: and they might go on a cold stretch. And then
Speaker 1: from there in the half court. Offensively for the Suns,
Speaker 1: you gotta get something out of Chris Paul. If all
Speaker 1: that goes the if those things, if those boxes are checked,
Speaker 1: which is very doable, then it's just about a few
Speaker 1: shots here there at the end of the game, and
Speaker 1: you might be able to steal this one and send
Speaker 1: it back to send it back to Phoenix. Did you
Speaker 1: have anything else on this game for uh? Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: I guess like my only thing was, like, I feel
Speaker 1: like they overreact a little bit to Holiday, Um and
Speaker 1: Midleton once they hit a few jump shots. I thought
Speaker 1: they really kind of closed out hard. I thought, you
Speaker 1: can't react to that. You can't take away that and
Speaker 1: Middleton and you're honest at the rim, like you you
Speaker 1: can't do all three and their shooters, Like you have
Speaker 1: to pick something. And I'm going to live with Holiday
Speaker 1: and Middleton trying to hit shots off the dribble through
Speaker 1: the whole game, hopefully that you know, it goes to
Speaker 1: the advantage. But that's that's the only thing I guess
Speaker 1: would say. But Chris Paul asked to be better man,
Speaker 1: Like I expected more from one of my favorite point guards.
Speaker 1: I'm seeing him get dragged through this whole time. Um,
Speaker 1: But yeah, it's it's tough watching him kind of struggle.
Speaker 1: He does some weird stuff, but I feel like he's
Speaker 1: one of the legends, and uh, I thought he would
Speaker 1: get his ring this year, but he hasn't hasn't come
Speaker 1: to part so we'll see. He hasn't been the first
Speaker 1: guy to face a big road game six. It's certainly
Speaker 1: within the realm of possibility that this could be his moment,
Speaker 1: this could be his his shining moment. But it's he's
Speaker 1: gotta go, He's gotta go do it. And for the record,
Speaker 1: I think a lot of the Chris Paul like Chris
Speaker 1: Paul is objectively unlikable because of all the stuff that
Speaker 1: he does. Is something you and I have talked about
Speaker 1: a lot, But I do think some of the criticism
Speaker 1: sent his way has gone a little too far. I mean,
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, he has a six
Speaker 1: foot tall point guard and expecting him to go out
Speaker 1: and do what Steph Curry does or Kyrie Irving does
Speaker 1: is just not necessarily fair. Those guys, Kyrie Irving six two,
Speaker 1: step Is six three, they're both more athletic. It's it's
Speaker 1: just it's just difficult, m um. Anyway, Let's let's move
Speaker 1: on to the to the Lakers aspect of this. So
Speaker 1: you and I spoke after Game six against the Suns
Speaker 1: when I got back from vacation. We talked about the
Speaker 1: missing shot making on the on the on the Lakers,
Speaker 1: the we we just watched Phoenix, it was like, man,
Speaker 1: McHale Bridges would put the ball on the floor and
Speaker 1: get to the fifteen foot line and he would elevate
Speaker 1: knockdown a shot. And you're like, man, who's doing that
Speaker 1: on the Lakers? Like, who's the guy who can attack
Speaker 1: close out in a more complicated way than just shooting
Speaker 1: an open three or ripping through all the way to
Speaker 1: the basket and make a you know, make those kind
Speaker 1: of secondary and tertiary you know, counters when they when
Speaker 1: they attacked close out and there was just nobody on
Speaker 1: the roster that could do that. Well, the truth of
Speaker 1: the matter is as Milwaukee's kind of that same type
Speaker 1: of team. Like I mean, Chris Middleton is a streaky
Speaker 1: jump shooter who doesn't really try to get into the
Speaker 1: lane much at all. I mean Drew Holiday, I have to,
Speaker 1: you know, eat my words a little bit because I
Speaker 1: said that he's pretty much average at everything. One of
Speaker 1: the revelations Withdrew Holiday in this series is he's actually
Speaker 1: a much better passer than I think we give him
Speaker 1: credit for his ability to create open shots for his
Speaker 1: teammates has been actually pretty amazing. But what Milwaukee is doing,
Speaker 1: for the most part, outside of Chris Middleton's more complicated
Speaker 1: jump shooting, is they're just putting their head down and
Speaker 1: going to the rim because they're the bigger, stronger team.
Speaker 1: It's almost like it's almost like that that like a
Speaker 1: perimeter shack type of mentality where it's just like drive right,
Speaker 1: if they cut you off, skin back left and keep going,
Speaker 1: and if they cut you off their skin back right,
Speaker 1: keep like they're just putting their head down and they're
Speaker 1: getting to the rim. And so from that standpoint, you know,
Speaker 1: the Lakers are incredibly well equipped to play that style
Speaker 1: of basketball. And I think at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: like we forget that the Lakers kind of man handled
Speaker 1: the Suns in Games two and Game three. It looks
Speaker 1: kind of like these Milwaukee wins over over over the Suns,
Speaker 1: and so I think maybe that doesn't mean that the
Speaker 1: Lakers shouldn't look for some sort of additional playmaker someone
Speaker 1: allah C. J. McCollum is the guy I've got my
Speaker 1: eyes on. However, you know, if if they can't get anybody,
Speaker 1: I don't think it's it's time yet to just pretend
Speaker 1: like this is, you know, a team that needs to
Speaker 1: be drastically changed because they have a better version in
Speaker 1: my opinion of this Milwaukee formula. You know, I think,
Speaker 1: I you probably this probably isn't the summer to say it,
Speaker 1: but I think Lebron is a better version of the Honest,
Speaker 1: a guy that if you you have to send help
Speaker 1: to the rim or he's just gonna bowl you to
Speaker 1: the basket every time except where he's gonna make all
Speaker 1: these correct passes all over the place, and he can
Speaker 1: beat you as a jump shooter off the dribble. And
Speaker 1: then you've got uh, Anthony Davis, who's arguably as physically
Speaker 1: dominant as the Honest, or was capable of being as
Speaker 1: physically dominant as the Honest. So I think, like I think,
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, this series has been
Speaker 1: a lesson that there may one day be a time
Speaker 1: when skill and shot making can take over the NBA,
Speaker 1: but I don't think it's yet, and and right now
Speaker 1: it still appears to favor the more physically dominant team,
Speaker 1: the one that can thrive in this rock fight environment. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's always like a Yang and Yang, right, It's always
Speaker 1: like working back and forth Like if you go too
Speaker 1: much in one way, then you're susceptible to being attacked
Speaker 1: in the other way. So that's kind of how I
Speaker 1: see it, man. Like just watching Phoenix, like they swept
Speaker 1: the Denver Nuggets even though you know they were out
Speaker 1: with some people. Um they beat what Portland? And did
Speaker 1: they play port And who did they play? They played? Uh,
Speaker 1: they played Denver and US and it was what they
Speaker 1: play in the West. The Clippers yere up up to
Speaker 1: all on the Clippers, but yeah, we forget man, Like
Speaker 1: the Lakers were up to one shooting from three and
Speaker 1: most of these games beating with the physicality, and you're
Speaker 1: seeing a lot of similar stuff, like their players are
Speaker 1: wearing down. I thought Drake Cowder was Jake Crowder was
Speaker 1: starting to get more down in the Lakers series as well. Um,
Speaker 1: but yeah, and when you have Lebron and a d
Speaker 1: that's kind of your baseline level and they're going to
Speaker 1: create open shots. Uh man, they would kill this small lineup.
Speaker 1: Like I just think about what they did in Houston
Speaker 1: last year. We forget man. People picked the Rock a
Speaker 1: lot of smart basketball people, Zach Low included. You know,
Speaker 1: I love Zach Low. One of my favorite analysts. He
Speaker 1: picked the Houston Rockers to be the Lakers because that
Speaker 1: style was killing. That was a new style. James Harden,
Speaker 1: Russell Westbrook, small ball. Um, they had what p J
Speaker 1: Tucker at the five, which is kind of funny with
Speaker 1: set p J. Tucker doing what he's doing now, but
Speaker 1: very similar. They ran very similar offense, spread out James
Speaker 1: Harden and the honest role a little bit. He's not
Speaker 1: you honest obviously, but just in terms of the heliocentricism
Speaker 1: and um, yeah, then the Lakers obviously said, okay, we're
Speaker 1: gonna do eighty at the five, and I dare you
Speaker 1: to switch every action and they did end up with
Speaker 1: Robert Covington. Um with the other guy. They have the
Speaker 1: guy that kicked out the Bubble Daniel house, you know,
Speaker 1: ending up on a D and it was just laughable.
Speaker 1: A D got whatever he wanted. And then we forget
Speaker 1: against Portland, who they had to start Hassan Whiteside and
Speaker 1: nurkersh together just to match up with the side. So
Speaker 1: it's just funny. Look at that, like, that's where I
Speaker 1: think I would kind of build on the season. It's
Speaker 1: tough to kind of gauge I think there's things to
Speaker 1: improve and all that, but yeah, physical physicality still wins
Speaker 1: the day. If you can have both, that's the whole point, right,
Speaker 1: you don't have to choose a d and Lebron are
Speaker 1: also skilled like these aren't like seven footers with no
Speaker 1: you know, handle or who can't you know, dribble or
Speaker 1: catch the ball or any kind of stuff like that.
Speaker 1: These are highly skilled, also physical players that use both.
Speaker 1: Lebron uses physicality to also supplement the skill, which I
Speaker 1: think is um is best of both worlds, and we're
Speaker 1: seeing is just tear through them and I just can't
Speaker 1: imagine what a healthy Lebron would have done. He obviously
Speaker 1: was not himself in that Phoenix series, so um, but yeah,
Speaker 1: I agree with you. I think there's something to build up. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and you know that versatility is key because the story
Speaker 1: of this series is Milwaukee physically dominating them. But at
Speaker 1: the end of the day, at the end of these games,
Speaker 1: it's a lot of surgical stuff from Chris Middleton, a
Speaker 1: lot of you know, really high level shot making over contests,
Speaker 1: you know, off the dribble, uh like tough shot making
Speaker 1: from Chris Middleton. And so that's where the verse atility
Speaker 1: is key, and that's why you know, uh, like, even
Speaker 1: even when you watch those those uh Lakers wins over
Speaker 1: the Suns, like there was in Game two, it was like, uh,
Speaker 1: it was Lebron taking and making really tough off the
Speaker 1: dribble jump shots in the late third quarter, quarter in
Speaker 1: early fourth quarter that kind of put them over the top,
Speaker 1: you know, and and you know, in their championship run
Speaker 1: it was like, we're physically dominating you. But there was
Speaker 1: a lot of really high level shot making from Lebron
Speaker 1: and Anthony Davis, and so having a guy like c
Speaker 1: J McCollum in the mix, just to add even more
Speaker 1: high level shot making to that Laker roster while also
Speaker 1: having the ability to physically dominate teams is definitely intriguing.
Speaker 1: I think I think that that's the kind of move
Speaker 1: that they need to try to make. But yeah, at
Speaker 1: the end of the day, your your core identity needs
Speaker 1: to be something that has proven to work in this
Speaker 1: late round playoff type of environment, and that means you
Speaker 1: need to be able to physically dominate every edition. You
Speaker 1: can't have uh too many, you can't have more than
Speaker 1: basically maybe one finn player on the perimeter. Everybody like
Speaker 1: you can probably get away with a Schroder, but you
Speaker 1: can't get away with like a Schroder and a campaign
Speaker 1: type of guard like that. Those Chris Paul campaign lineups
Speaker 1: are getting destroyed in this Buck series. Um and then
Speaker 1: and then you need to have guys that in the
Speaker 1: half court when things really slow down that can generate
Speaker 1: quality shots in that type of physical uh environment. And
Speaker 1: so the Lakers have that core identity that that that's
Speaker 1: in their core, that's who they are. They've been that
Speaker 1: for two years. And so as long as they keep
Speaker 1: that and make little moves on the property periphery to
Speaker 1: add a little bit of versatility here or there, I
Speaker 1: think they're I think they're on the right path. Have
Speaker 1: a question for you because like we talked all year
Speaker 1: about the Lakers kind of defensive guards, right, they have
Speaker 1: really good defensive guard play shrewder Case. He is really
Speaker 1: good at lock and trailing chasing guys. Alex Caruso, I
Speaker 1: think I don't know if you would agree as our
Speaker 1: best probably perimeter defender has the size and kind of speed.
Speaker 1: I'm more biased in this. I don't ask you, like
Speaker 1: can Caruso do of what Drew Holiday is kind of
Speaker 1: doing here, Like, is he at that kind of time?
Speaker 1: I don't. It probably doesn't have the talent of True
Speaker 1: Holiday or the physicality, but like, do you think he
Speaker 1: can kind of assume a little of that? Because when
Speaker 1: I watched Drew like defend like this, it reminds me
Speaker 1: of watching Crusoe. But like I'm more biased, I watched
Speaker 1: a hundred more Laker games any of the team. Do
Speaker 1: you kind of see that or is that like or
Speaker 1: is Cruso kind of another tier of defender of True
Speaker 1: Holiday in terms of chasing like a guy like Chris
Speaker 1: Paul and making him work for everything. I think Crusoe
Speaker 1: is is near that level. Um. Now, the reason why
Speaker 1: I wouldn't say he's at that level is mainly has
Speaker 1: to do with out of respect to Drew Holiday, the
Speaker 1: fact that Drew Holiday does it for forty minutes a
Speaker 1: night every night for the last bit basically a decade um,
Speaker 1: whereas Crusoe has been doing it in a limited role.
Speaker 1: He's playing usually you know, between minutes a night and
Speaker 1: doesn't have the same amount of defensive responsibility. Blah blah blah.
Speaker 1: But I think Caruso is an absolute wrecking ball defensively,
Speaker 1: and I think he does it in a similar way
Speaker 1: to Drew Holiday. He does it at the guard position,
Speaker 1: as a big, strong player in an environment where physicality
Speaker 1: is allowed. He just bumps people off their spots and
Speaker 1: he's really good with his hands. He's good at not fouling.
Speaker 1: It's all the extra effort stuff, never quits on a play,
Speaker 1: all that stuff. I think. I think that in that role,
Speaker 1: that's what you're getting. And for the record, this was
Speaker 1: something uh Pete from Laker Film Room brought up in
Speaker 1: a podcast I think it was yesterday, Uh, when he
Speaker 1: was talking about how like sometimes the Lakers would just
Speaker 1: come out with lineups where it was you know, lebron A,
Speaker 1: d Andre, Drummond, Kuzma and Caruso and you're like, you're
Speaker 1: you're you're going seven ft seven ft six nine six
Speaker 1: nine six five or six six or whatever, and everybody's
Speaker 1: strong and Drew Drew Drew Holiday kind of is that
Speaker 1: for Milwaukee. He's the the ability to have like a
Speaker 1: small guy on the floor, but at the same time
Speaker 1: one that doesn't sacrifice your physical identity as a team.
Speaker 1: And that's what Crusoe is. And you know, like you
Speaker 1: and I said all year, when push comes to shove
Speaker 1: for the Lakers. You can talk about Drummond and whether
Speaker 1: or not he helps to play him. You can talk
Speaker 1: about Kuzma, you can talk about, you know, uh which
Speaker 1: guards to play. But at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: it's like when when it when the chips were down,
Speaker 1: it was always going to be Lebron, a D, you know, Caruso,
Speaker 1: k CP and either Kuzma or Wesley Matthews, depending on
Speaker 1: who had to go in that night. At the end
Speaker 1: of the day, they were gonna go with just a
Speaker 1: really basic, uh defense heavy lineup and have all the
Speaker 1: shot creation go through through Lebron and a D. And
Speaker 1: so you know, at the end of the day, like
Speaker 1: like that, all this other stuff doesn't matter as much
Speaker 1: as long as your core group can get the job done.
Speaker 1: That's what's happening with with Milwaukee is no matter how
Speaker 1: crazy it gets, you fall down by sixteen points in
Speaker 1: the first quarter of of of a Crazy Him in Phoenix.
Speaker 1: It's like when we go to Janice and Chris Middleton
Speaker 1: and p J. Tucker and Pat Conaton and Drew Holiday,
Speaker 1: they can't score on us and we're physically bullying them
Speaker 1: on the other end, and so it's just it's at
Speaker 1: the end of the day, it's like, who's your guys,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. And Crusoe, regardless of whether
Speaker 1: or not he's on the same level of Drew Holiday,
Speaker 1: I know that I can count on Crusoe to be
Speaker 1: that guy with that group and be near as impactful
Speaker 1: on the defensive end, which is all you really need
Speaker 1: him to be in that lineup. Yeah, yeah, exactly, And
Speaker 1: that's what I was wondering. I think Lakers kind of
Speaker 1: simulate what Milwaukee was doing here in terms of chasing
Speaker 1: guys over. It just reminds me of their defense, Like
Speaker 1: I remember when they had a Crusoe on Dame for
Speaker 1: the whole first round pretty much and kind of forced
Speaker 1: Dame to kind of handle a bunch of physicality for
Speaker 1: the whole round. Obviously they sent help when they're supposed
Speaker 1: to do and all that, but just that's what's reminding
Speaker 1: me of watching Drew just absolutely take Chris Paul out
Speaker 1: on Chris Paul is not Dame, he's not the age
Speaker 1: or the scoring throw anymore, but just watching him absolutely
Speaker 1: eliminate him. Um, Jevin Booker is getting free as well,
Speaker 1: but just on the switches with Drew it's it's cool
Speaker 1: to watch a defensive masterclass like this, Like I feel
Speaker 1: like that should be louder than the Chris Paul is choking,
Speaker 1: Like that's a very easy kind of narrative put out there,
Speaker 1: but just looking at the basketball of it, it's cool
Speaker 1: to watch you guys step up like this. And this
Speaker 1: is not the first time Drew all they has done this. Um,
Speaker 1: he did this to Damian Lillard and when he was
Speaker 1: in New Orleans as well, Like this is he has
Speaker 1: a reputation for this um and CJ. Mccollumn as well
Speaker 1: to a lesser and extet, So like, I feel like
Speaker 1: that should be louder. This is one of the best
Speaker 1: maybe defensive guards that we've seen, instead of just ever yeah,
Speaker 1: instead of just saying Chris Paul chokes, Like that's a
Speaker 1: that I mean, I guess you can say that, but
Speaker 1: that's not really the story to me that's happening on
Speaker 1: the court. At least. The story is Drew Holiday is
Speaker 1: making a hell for him to get any separation for
Speaker 1: a six one to six to guards. So I just
Speaker 1: want to ask you that because I think it's interesting.
Speaker 1: The Lake just kind of build off that Crusoe is
Speaker 1: a free agent, which makes this even more kind of
Speaker 1: fascinating here to to see. Yeah, like Tim Likely said,
Speaker 1: Drew Holidays built like a um, built like an NFL
Speaker 1: strong safety is what he said. And you know, in
Speaker 1: Crusoe is two, which is crazy because like I'm I'm
Speaker 1: I'm six six and I way about two thirty, so
Speaker 1: I'm pretty strong for a guy my size. But like
Speaker 1: you look at a picture of Alex Crusoe with his
Speaker 1: shirt off, and you're like, there's another level to this,
Speaker 1: Like like Alex Cruzo probably doesn't weigh quite as much
Speaker 1: as me because I have a bunch of weight in
Speaker 1: my legs, but like he's so physically strong and powerful
Speaker 1: in his upper body that you can tell, like when
Speaker 1: he there's like little bits of contact that you can
Speaker 1: get away within basketball because the refs don't like to
Speaker 1: blow their whistle all the time. That's kind of like
Speaker 1: a policy. They do their jobs, but they would prefer
Speaker 1: to not be heavily involved in the game. So like
Speaker 1: these little little forearm chucks here, little hands here, that
Speaker 1: kind of stuff is allowed. Well, when you're as strong
Speaker 1: as Alex Crusoe is, or if you're built like an
Speaker 1: NFL strong safety, the way that Drew Holiday is those
Speaker 1: little bumps in little chucks completely throw you off balance
Speaker 1: and and all of a sudden, like you know, taking
Speaker 1: a little turnaround jump shot. Instead of you elevating and
Speaker 1: getting a good clean look at the rim, now you're
Speaker 1: like jumping almost at a forty five degree angle because
Speaker 1: you're off balance. And when you're getting into the lane
Speaker 1: and you're trying to finish strong at the rim, now
Speaker 1: you're fading away from the basket and throwing some crazy
Speaker 1: hook shot up because Crusoe or Drew just kind of
Speaker 1: bumped you a little bit and the ref didn't call
Speaker 1: it that. That kind of stuff is all part of
Speaker 1: that advantage. And you know, and and for for the record,
Speaker 1: with the way the game is officiated, when you get
Speaker 1: into these late rounds, it kind of turns into this
Speaker 1: you know, mono imano physical matchup, like who's who's bigger,
Speaker 1: who's stronger, who's faster kind of deal. And you know,
Speaker 1: and the Warriors are always pointed to is the skill
Speaker 1: team that that got over the top of I guess
Speaker 1: like we always forget they were a top They were
Speaker 1: top three defense almost every season there in the first
Speaker 1: three years that they that they were in the finals,
Speaker 1: and it was like Andrea guadala Is every bit is
Speaker 1: is physically imposing, as as as the best big wings
Speaker 1: in the league, and Draymond Green was Draymond Green did
Speaker 1: a lot of that to Kevin Love. Like Kevin Love
Speaker 1: would post up and he'd turned and face and he
Speaker 1: do a little jab step, you do a little like
Speaker 1: back down dribble, and Draymond would just a little shove,
Speaker 1: a little push here, and he'd be way off balance
Speaker 1: and next thing you know, it's like, oh, like I
Speaker 1: can't even get a shot off against this guy, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. So the Warriors were a very
Speaker 1: physically imposing team. Then you threw Kevin Durant into the mix.
Speaker 1: Is this like seven foot freak who when he was
Speaker 1: trying on defense was like Anthony Davis. Like that kind
Speaker 1: of thing that have made them very physically imposing. They
Speaker 1: just also had the high end shot making that came
Speaker 1: from Steph Curry and Clay Thompson and Kevin Durant made
Speaker 1: them so tough to beat. Um. All right, let's move
Speaker 1: on to this this bad Twitter thing. So, as Roger
Speaker 1: and I were talking before the show, uh, him and I,
Speaker 1: I I basically sat that one out because I was
Speaker 1: pretty annoyed by it and I just didn't want to
Speaker 1: be a part of it. Roger listened to the the
Speaker 1: Space a little the Spaces a little bit and heard
Speaker 1: some of this stuff. But this has been this has
Speaker 1: been an extremely uh popular topic over basically the last
Speaker 1: like a couple of years, because there was the big
Speaker 1: thing with uh, you know, Lebron and his weird pullback
Speaker 1: three point shot and how people talked about how like
Speaker 1: this was his go to move and he's killing the
Speaker 1: league with this move because he has no bag. And
Speaker 1: then it was the Janice stuff and the Janna's first
Speaker 1: James Harden stuff, and then it was like, oh, who's
Speaker 1: on the mount Rushmore of scores? Can we can we
Speaker 1: include Lebron James on the Mount Rushmore of scores when
Speaker 1: he doesn't have all these polished moves like some of
Speaker 1: these other guys. And and then it you know, climaxed
Speaker 1: with this whole thing with Janice in the finals, which
Speaker 1: led to uh, perhaps the most ridiculous uh graphic I've
Speaker 1: ever seen in my life. And uh, like you said earlier,
Speaker 1: we're not gonna dunk on on Phillips here. That's not
Speaker 1: the point. We want to have an interesting conversation surrounding this.
Speaker 1: But the premise was that guys like John stock then
Speaker 1: and Clay Thompson and Janis Antenna Coompo and Tim Duncan
Speaker 1: or basketball players but not Hooper's uh, which fundamentally doesn't
Speaker 1: make any sense because I would argue that Clay Thompson
Speaker 1: and Tim Duncan in particular are two and John Sockton
Speaker 1: are are They're just incredibly skilled basketball players. Um, they
Speaker 1: just didn't do things the way that you know, other
Speaker 1: players different archetypes did it. So I guess before before
Speaker 1: we get too much further into it, let me just
Speaker 1: ask you this, like what was your reaction when you
Speaker 1: saw that graphic? And and what's your kind of macro
Speaker 1: worldview on the whole skill versus impact type of discussion. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's tough because like, obviously I didn't play super high
Speaker 1: level basketball, but anyone who's got into any played, I
Speaker 1: don't care where you played, high school, middle school. Like
Speaker 1: if you play in open runs in twenty four, like,
Speaker 1: you'll meet people who are like trying to, you know,
Speaker 1: be professional basketball players in whatever level. Like I remember
Speaker 1: I would play and run at twenty four is a
Speaker 1: guy trying to play who's trying to make the G League. Um,
Speaker 1: he was trying to make the G League roster, and
Speaker 1: he absolutely would kill in those runs like destroy us,
Speaker 1: And I'm like, man, this is the level of dudes
Speaker 1: like in the like, if go watch G League games
Speaker 1: and watch dudes play like these dudes, it's so hard
Speaker 1: to even make that level. And I think just once
Speaker 1: you like the the argument is one of the guys
Speaker 1: was making if he was Tony was like, once you
Speaker 1: become an All Star, you're automatically a hooper. And for me,
Speaker 1: the levels like once you make the NBA, like like
Speaker 1: like I don't believe you can really make the NBA
Speaker 1: without having some sort of love of hoop. I mean
Speaker 1: there are very rare exceptions. Um, Like people use Andrew
Speaker 1: Wiggins as an example of a guy who might not
Speaker 1: really love basketball the way he does. But I mean
Speaker 1: that's also I don't know Andrew Wiggins, so I don't
Speaker 1: know if he does or doesn't. But like that's my
Speaker 1: biggest picture with that, Like saying Tim Duncan doesn't love basketball,
Speaker 1: it's such a doesn't I'm sorry, isn't a hooper It's
Speaker 1: just such a weird thing to say Tim Duncan is
Speaker 1: the best power forward, Like they even said Tim dunk
Speaker 1: is the best power for whatever. But he's not a hooper.
Speaker 1: Well that that that that doesn't really make sense to me.
Speaker 1: So let me ask you a question. Does ask a
Speaker 1: question that was asked in that thing? And um, it
Speaker 1: really threw me, It really drew me off. Do you
Speaker 1: think John Stockton would be able to score in the
Speaker 1: Drew League? Absolutely, there's there's no question. Um. You know,
Speaker 1: I think that, Uh, I think that aesthetics end up
Speaker 1: being the driving force behind most of this stuff. People
Speaker 1: gravitate towards specific types of basketball players, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean? And um that that's kind of the funny
Speaker 1: part about about me being a Lebron fan, like my
Speaker 1: my my fanhood of Lebron has a lot more to
Speaker 1: do with him getting me interested in basketball, despite the
Speaker 1: fact that my family didn't really expose me to basketball, um,
Speaker 1: more than it has to do with me being a
Speaker 1: fan of the type of game that he has, you know.
Speaker 1: Like for me personally, I've always been a score like
Speaker 1: I I play a lot more like a Devin Booker
Speaker 1: type of player than I do like a Lebron. I'm
Speaker 1: not a great passer. It's actually a weakness in my game.
Speaker 1: I don't see the floor as well as as really
Speaker 1: good passers do. Uh in in in the local hoops
Speaker 1: scene here, So like when I played with the men's league,
Speaker 1: I try to find a guy who can be a
Speaker 1: more traditional playmaker because it kind of compliments my skill
Speaker 1: set more. And you know, uh, the reality is is
Speaker 1: like you've talked to five random guys. You know, two
Speaker 1: of them are going to gravitate towards the Kobe archetype
Speaker 1: of basketball player, and three of them are going to
Speaker 1: gravitate towards the Lebron archetype of basketball player. People are
Speaker 1: just fans of different styles. I do think that people
Speaker 1: highly underestimate how skilled these guys are. Like you guys,
Speaker 1: probably you guys probably see me post a lot of
Speaker 1: basketball videos on on on Twitter. I post those basketball
Speaker 1: videos because I'm addicted to the game and because I'm
Speaker 1: I know I'm entering this phase. I turned thirty this
Speaker 1: year where I've got like five years here where I
Speaker 1: can have like a five year stretch where I'm at
Speaker 1: my absolute peak as a basketball player. And I really
Speaker 1: want to enjoy it, and I really want to maximize it,
Speaker 1: and I really want to have fun with it. But
Speaker 1: let me make one thing perfectly clear. I am nowhere
Speaker 1: year good enough to play in the NBA, not even
Speaker 1: remotely close. That's how good those guys are. You see
Speaker 1: me take every conceivable turnaround jump shot. You see me
Speaker 1: take every conceivable step back jump shot. I have all
Speaker 1: the dribble moves, I have all the stuff that you
Speaker 1: would qualify as a bag and I am nowhere near
Speaker 1: even remotely qualified to play in the n b A.
Speaker 1: If you put me on the Lakers roster, I would
Speaker 1: get man handled in their practices. I am not. I
Speaker 1: am not even remotely close to that level. Well, you
Speaker 1: have to understand is like these guys, even the ones
Speaker 1: you don't think of as someone who's particularly skilled, they
Speaker 1: they shrink their games down to fit into a role
Speaker 1: in the NBA. And that is the key difference there,
Speaker 1: you know, like like like if you Clay Thompson plays
Speaker 1: a fundamentally sound, shrunken version of his game to fit
Speaker 1: within a championship concept alongside one of the ten best
Speaker 1: basketball players ever. Clay Thompson takes most the on balanced
Speaker 1: jump shots with a really quick release and then he
Speaker 1: adds a little bit of stuff off the move. But
Speaker 1: that's about it. If you went and played pick up
Speaker 1: with Clay Thompson, he'd be doing seven dribble step back
Speaker 1: threes to his right, seven dribble step back threes to
Speaker 1: his left. He'd be doing stuff out of the post.
Speaker 1: He'd be doing stuff everywhere. He's capable of all of that.
Speaker 1: He shrinks his game to fit within the championship concept.
Speaker 1: Same thing goes with Tim Duncan. Tim Duncan is the
Speaker 1: epitome of a player who has embraced the fact that
Speaker 1: a simplified version of his game would lead to championships.
Speaker 1: He didn't need to do the Kevin Garnett crazy fadeaways,
Speaker 1: he didn't need to do the Anthony Davis multiple dribbles
Speaker 1: between his legs feeding into each shot. He simplified it
Speaker 1: down to a handful of moves, a little face up banker,
Speaker 1: little hook shots here, drop steps there. He incredibly simplified
Speaker 1: his game and made it based on power and fundamentals,
Speaker 1: and nobody could nobody, nobody could mess with him as
Speaker 1: a result of that. And so I think a lot
Speaker 1: of times people view simplifying the game as a weakness,
Speaker 1: you know, like like uh uh, going with rudimentary, more dependable,
Speaker 1: fundamental skills as a weakness, when in reality, it is
Speaker 1: a player making a conscious decision to simplify his game
Speaker 1: to try to impact winning within within his team concept.
Speaker 1: There are players out there, guys like Kyrie Irving, you know,
Speaker 1: guys like Devin Booker, where their physical tools aren't really
Speaker 1: what they need to be to have a rudimentary basic
Speaker 1: approach to the game. They have to use smoke in mirrors,
Speaker 1: they have to use misdirection, they have to use change
Speaker 1: of pace and counters on top of counters on top
Speaker 1: of counters to get to their spots because otherwise they
Speaker 1: wouldn't be able to get shots off. That that's by necessity,
Speaker 1: that's completely different. But at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: every single player, their impact on winning is a combination
Speaker 1: of their physical tools, their skill set, and their basketball
Speaker 1: i Q. And if you're strong and two of those
Speaker 1: areas in week and one, regardless of what it is,
Speaker 1: you'll be fine. But you've got to be strong in
Speaker 1: other areas to compensate. If you don't have great physical tools,
Speaker 1: you better be incredibly smart and incredibly skilled. If you
Speaker 1: don't have a great basketball i Q, you better have
Speaker 1: great physical tools, and you better be able to put
Speaker 1: the ball in the basket because you're gonna become a
Speaker 1: weaponized score in your offense, and and and so on
Speaker 1: and so. For Lebron is more like a really great
Speaker 1: physical tools and really great i Q kind of guy.
Speaker 1: And he's somewhat weak in the in the skill set area,
Speaker 1: but he has enough there and he's so good in
Speaker 1: the other two areas that he's maybe the best basketball
Speaker 1: player ever. But at the end of the day, you
Speaker 1: have to have some combination of those things. And it
Speaker 1: would be a complete this last thing, I'll say this,
Speaker 1: it would be a complete waste of your honest's time
Speaker 1: to go into this summer and be like, I am
Speaker 1: going to try to replicate everything that Devin Booker did
Speaker 1: in that NBA Finals, because it would take him years
Speaker 1: to develop that skill set, and it would be he
Speaker 1: doesn't need to get as much separation as Devin Booker.
Speaker 1: Devin Booker needs to get so much separation to get
Speaker 1: that shot up. Your honest would be better off taking
Speaker 1: almost a Tim duncan ESQ approach, working on a handful
Speaker 1: of really rudimentary uh post moves, midpost moves that he
Speaker 1: will be able to get off without much separation. That
Speaker 1: can be really dependable moves for him. And getting caught
Speaker 1: up in the aesthetics of things just means you don't
Speaker 1: have your priorities straight and you sure you sure as
Speaker 1: hell shouldn't be trying to impress the Rashad phillips Is
Speaker 1: of the world. That's not that that's not gonna help
Speaker 1: you win basketball games. You need to figure out how
Speaker 1: you can win within your team concept. Yeah, and I
Speaker 1: feel like I don't even want to use names like
Speaker 1: Tim Duncan Clay Thompson, like that's to me should be obvious.
Speaker 1: You throw Tim Duncan anywhere in the world, he's gonna dominate.
Speaker 1: You throw Clay Thompson anywhere in the world, you can dominant.
Speaker 1: But you can even go at the lesser dudes. Like
Speaker 1: I think there is a conversation that we have there
Speaker 1: are players who can't translate that street kind of game
Speaker 1: to the NBA, right, We've we've seen that a lot
Speaker 1: where players really struggle or even if they do translate,
Speaker 1: they're not the star that they were because, like if
Speaker 1: you look in the G League, there's a lot of
Speaker 1: guys who average in college or whatever, and they can't
Speaker 1: translate that into a role because in the league, you
Speaker 1: already have thirty points scores, right, Alex Cruso talks about
Speaker 1: this a lot um. A lot of guys don't know
Speaker 1: the role they're applying for. Like they go into the
Speaker 1: G League and think they're gonna be the score went in.
Speaker 1: To be honest, every team has a score ready to
Speaker 1: be looking for guys to do other things, as Cruso
Speaker 1: if he wants, he can go at any pickup game
Speaker 1: in the world and go drop thirty five forty because
Speaker 1: he's Alex Caruso is playing the damn NBA. Those guys
Speaker 1: can do that. Like that's where I'm like, that's where
Speaker 1: it's so tough for me. I think that Tim Duncan
Speaker 1: stuff is obvious, Clay Thompson stuff is obvious. Those guys
Speaker 1: obviously are lesser in the role. These uses are all
Speaker 1: stars in the best world in the world, best league
Speaker 1: in the world. But you go to any guy Quinn Cook,
Speaker 1: you would dominate like this Hooper basketball kind of conversation.
Speaker 1: I think it's true there are players who can translate it,
Speaker 1: but I think once you have a long NBA career,
Speaker 1: like Lou Williams is a guy that people think about
Speaker 1: a lot. Didn't really have to change this game that much,
Speaker 1: but he's still like you throw Williams and Lou Williams
Speaker 1: is both a basketball player and hooper to me because
Speaker 1: he can do both. Like he's obviously had a fifteen
Speaker 1: year career. You don't get a fifteen year career. You
Speaker 1: can't play basketball. But he's a guy that used Jamal
Speaker 1: Crawford as well. Um a guy who's had a fifteen
Speaker 1: year career as a sixth man. You think coaches are
Speaker 1: going to play a dude that can't that doesn't know
Speaker 1: basketball for who's one multiple six man in the Year awards.
Speaker 1: That that's where it just doesn't compute for me. These
Speaker 1: guys are amazing. Go go to Envy a NBA game
Speaker 1: and go watch the fifteenth man shoot. He's not gonna miss,
Speaker 1: like he doesn't do does not miss when you watch
Speaker 1: him in warm up. So it's just it's funny. When
Speaker 1: I see the conversation, I think, I think you're right.
Speaker 1: We don't get these dudes enough credit for just how
Speaker 1: good they are. There in the one percent of the
Speaker 1: one percent of the one percent of what they do.
Speaker 1: And um, yeah, that that's kind of where I'm at
Speaker 1: with this conversation. Yeah, it was like, let's use John
Speaker 1: Stockton as an example, you know, in the New League.
Speaker 1: This was one of the things that got brought up.
Speaker 1: You know. Yeah, Uh, my guess is that John Stockton
Speaker 1: could face up with some defender in the rear league
Speaker 1: and do some variation of step backs off the dribble
Speaker 1: shots and make a decent percentage of him off the dribble.
Speaker 1: But one of the big reasons why he didn't do
Speaker 1: much of that in the NBA is because in the NBA,
Speaker 1: going against NBA guard defenders, guys like Gary Payton, he
Speaker 1: wasn't really able to get those types of shots off,
Speaker 1: and so he turned his he used screens to get
Speaker 1: an advantage, you know what I mean. And for the record,
Speaker 1: there's pride doesn't amount to anything on the scoreboard. Okay,
Speaker 1: if I'm if I'm in a matchup with a guy
Speaker 1: like there's a guy here in town, his name is Brian,
Speaker 1: who is one of the best perimeter defenders that I've
Speaker 1: ever played against. And I see him every once in
Speaker 1: a while, and when he comes up against me. I
Speaker 1: have two options. I can either, out of pride, try
Speaker 1: to score on the guy, which you know, I can
Speaker 1: usually get to my spot and get to some kind
Speaker 1: of jump shots. Some days I make them, some days
Speaker 1: I don't. But at the end of the day, why
Speaker 1: if I'm trying to win the game, why am I
Speaker 1: trying to isolate Brian. Why don't I get a screen
Speaker 1: involved and try to get either working in some sort
Speaker 1: of screen and roll action or get a different defender
Speaker 1: on me. Because all I really care about is winning,
Speaker 1: So why don't I get an advantage somewhere else on
Speaker 1: the floor. John Stockton would probably go up to the
Speaker 1: Drew League and think, Okay, I'm going to get into
Speaker 1: screen and roll with this this random super athletic center
Speaker 1: that's on my team that I can throw lobs too,
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna get my defender on my backside instead
Speaker 1: of playing him in isolation, and I'm gonna either shoot
Speaker 1: floaters or layups at the rim, or throw passes to
Speaker 1: the big man or if they rotate out to shooters.
Speaker 1: Like his approach to the game is is built around
Speaker 1: this idea that he has a specific skill set and
Speaker 1: he can make that impact basketball games in this specific way,
Speaker 1: and that specific way is going to be different than
Speaker 1: the way Kyrie Irving would use his skill set to
Speaker 1: impact the game. And and and that preference there turned
Speaker 1: into this like basketball players versus hoopers thing, which is
Speaker 1: so stupid to me and insulting honestly to what those
Speaker 1: guys do. And so the real question is is it's
Speaker 1: like with that spectrum that we talked about with basketball
Speaker 1: i Q skill set and phizic goal tools, that's how
Speaker 1: you really identify these players, is you know, like I
Speaker 1: would say that Janice, even like when we're ranking players
Speaker 1: at the end of the season, you're gonna have players
Speaker 1: who who kind of gravitate to his play style, who
Speaker 1: think he's the best player in the league. You know, me,
Speaker 1: I tend to prioritize, you know, that playmaking, basketball i
Speaker 1: Q shot making a little bit more than other people do.
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna gravitate problem. I'm probably gonna put him
Speaker 1: forth behind Steph Katie and Lebron because I think those
Speaker 1: guys and what they provide in the other areas of
Speaker 1: the game is a little bit more impactful. But we
Speaker 1: can argue that all day long. You know what your
Speaker 1: preferences if you value physical dominance, or if you value
Speaker 1: shot making, or if you value skill, but none of
Speaker 1: those is inherently or proven to be better than the other.
Speaker 1: They're all in uh. Samuis Fondiere from Warriors Twitter always
Speaker 1: talks about this. Like every star, it just comes down
Speaker 1: to their supporting cast. Like if you gave Kevin Durant
Speaker 1: the perfect list of of of co of of role
Speaker 1: players that matches skill set perfectly, but I put Lebron
Speaker 1: with a mismatched skill set of role players that doesn't
Speaker 1: really compliment him super well, Katie's team might win even
Speaker 1: if there's no other stars on either team, and vice versa.
Speaker 1: Of I give Lebron a boatload of shooters who can defend,
Speaker 1: and he's just driving and kicking and driving to the
Speaker 1: basket all day long. But Kevin Durant is playing with
Speaker 1: a group of players that doesn't necessarily match his skill set.
Speaker 1: Lebron is gonna win that matchup. At the at the
Speaker 1: end of the day, you know your individual skill set,
Speaker 1: and whether or not you win usually has a lot
Speaker 1: more to do with what's around you than with what
Speaker 1: you're doing. And I think I think this last couple
Speaker 1: of years has been such a great example of that
Speaker 1: because we've seen Kevin Durant lose to Janice, and I
Speaker 1: think Kevin Durant was a better player. We saw Lebron
Speaker 1: beat Steph in the playing game, and Lebron wasn't even
Speaker 1: very good in that game. Steph was out of this world.
Speaker 1: But the Lakers were more physically imposing and and dialed
Speaker 1: in defensive team who eventually wore them down and and
Speaker 1: made some big shots late and they won. Like basketball,
Speaker 1: we have to get away from this mono imano aspect
Speaker 1: of basketball because we've come too far in that direction.
Speaker 1: You know, we we kind of a back and forth,
Speaker 1: and we've gone too far into over analyzing what one
Speaker 1: guy does when we're watching these games, and it's so
Speaker 1: obviously dependent on the five man unit and how they
Speaker 1: compliment each other and how they compliment their star. Because
Speaker 1: there's a version of this series where Devin Booker looks
Speaker 1: like the best player because everything compliments him. Maybe he
Speaker 1: makes another big shot in Game four and they win
Speaker 1: the series in five. You might have guys sitting here going,
Speaker 1: Devin Booker is better than you, Honese, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean? Like that, that's that's kind of the way
Speaker 1: this discourse goes. And so I I just get frustrated
Speaker 1: with it because I don't think. I don't think from
Speaker 1: Hooper's to like ra Stoan Phillips is a basketball player,
Speaker 1: that dude he was that that I retweeted this morning
Speaker 1: that he's talking to dude's a basketball player. Those two
Speaker 1: guys should have more respect for what these guys do
Speaker 1: to build their skill set to fit within a championship concept.
Speaker 1: And it is so deeply disrespectful for them to to
Speaker 1: undercut that or to overly simplify that, to overly simplify
Speaker 1: Clay Thompson into a role player when he's a role
Speaker 1: player by design and he could go to your favorite
Speaker 1: team and drop twenty seven to night if he wanted to,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. And I just think I
Speaker 1: hope that we can delineate between the uh that kind
Speaker 1: of type of discourse and real basketball discourse. No for sure,
Speaker 1: And again, like dunking on that is like that the
Speaker 1: rim is lowered so low that like I feel like
Speaker 1: it's very easy to to dunk on. But like my
Speaker 1: only issue was because Kendrick Perkins kind of brought this up.
Speaker 1: Who I think it's a lot more ship than he should.
Speaker 1: I think he's good on TV and everything, but like
Speaker 1: he was talking about his kind of thing of Hooper
Speaker 1: versus basketball player, was Hooper was a guy who loves
Speaker 1: to hoop, right, So brought up Kevin Durant, brought up JR. Smith, Um,
Speaker 1: brought up Jamal Crawford. These guys that go whop in
Speaker 1: these summer league runs and stuff like that all summer.
Speaker 1: And to me, just because like you don't have like
Speaker 1: a dribble pull up, or if you're not on TV
Speaker 1: all the time, doesn't mean you don't love to go hoop,
Speaker 1: Like I feel like most of these Obviously there's levels.
Speaker 1: I don't think everyone loves it the same. But I
Speaker 1: think when you reach the NBA, like you have to
Speaker 1: have some sort of love for the game at least
Speaker 1: because the competition is too high. Like love for the
Speaker 1: game is a baseline, Like that's a starting point, Like
Speaker 1: you can't even get to where you were even use
Speaker 1: an example where like a role player gets too without
Speaker 1: some kind of love because of the work that it takes. Right,
Speaker 1: it's a lot of hard work to get to even
Speaker 1: become a role player in the NBA. Become a three
Speaker 1: and D wing. The amount of shots you have to
Speaker 1: take per day, the amount of whatever you have to
Speaker 1: do to become a role player. That work is so
Speaker 1: much that, like, I feel like your love for the
Speaker 1: game has to be at some kind of baseline level.
Speaker 1: Like for me, I don't hear dribble pull up shots.
Speaker 1: I know my role. When I play a pickup game,
Speaker 1: I like to stay in the corner. I like to
Speaker 1: take catch and shoot. I play defense. I know my role.
Speaker 1: Doesn't mean I don't love to who but I love
Speaker 1: to go play runs. Just because I can't hear dribble
Speaker 1: pull up doesn't mean that I don't love like the game. Like,
Speaker 1: and that's where I know. They kept saying that hooper
Speaker 1: versus basketball player isn't you know, there's nothing wrong with either,
Speaker 1: But like calling Lebron a basketball player and not a
Speaker 1: hooper just has a negative connotation to it. It just
Speaker 1: has a yeah, so it's very exactly, but like they
Speaker 1: kept saying, there's nothing wrong with either. But it's just
Speaker 1: that's Lebron freaking James, Like, how is he not he's
Speaker 1: playing basketball at thirty six with all the money in
Speaker 1: the world, does not need to play could could stop
Speaker 1: playing tomorrow when I have money for a hundreds of generations,
Speaker 1: How could that man not love to play basketball? Like
Speaker 1: that's the That's the part to me which is just
Speaker 1: so strange about the conversation where it's like that that
Speaker 1: doesn't make any sense. Like I think there's a legitimate
Speaker 1: conversation between guys who play a really fundamental role and
Speaker 1: guys who kill it at the runs and guys who
Speaker 1: can't translate that to the NBA. I think that's a conversation,
Speaker 1: like how do we get guys who averaged forty in
Speaker 1: the Drew League to get into the NBA and make
Speaker 1: play a role into it. That's a real condo to have.
Speaker 1: This is just I don't know what to do with
Speaker 1: this conversation, Like this is putting Clay Compson Lebron James,
Speaker 1: separating them saying they couldn't do what these dudes who
Speaker 1: are hoopers do is is just false to me. Yeah, agree,
Speaker 1: And I loved what you said about how people's love
Speaker 1: of the game can manifest in different ways. I feel
Speaker 1: the same way about competitiveness. Like people always try to
Speaker 1: draw this line between Lebron and Kobe and MJ as
Speaker 1: a competitor, and just because it looks different, like Lebron
Speaker 1: and m J and Kobe are kind of assholes who
Speaker 1: are like super mean, muggy, they and and and you know,
Speaker 1: demonstrative with their with their seeming hatred towards the competition,
Speaker 1: whereas Lebron is more boisterous and and jovial and happy
Speaker 1: and and and positive looking. But at the same time,
Speaker 1: it's like Lebron is freakishly competitive, like he's every bit
Speaker 1: as competitive as those guys, you know how, like you said,
Speaker 1: you know, because he's wanted so much like competitive people
Speaker 1: have people that are that competitive. It's it requires that
Speaker 1: to achieve a level of success in the NBA and
Speaker 1: the same and the same goes for for the love
Speaker 1: of the game. Like you know, uh, I happened to
Speaker 1: be the type of guy that, like, I love basketball
Speaker 1: in a way to where I no, no pickup run
Speaker 1: is beneath me. Like all I've played in pick up
Speaker 1: games with all NBA players before at the University of Arizona,
Speaker 1: where I've got you know, seven or eight NBA players
Speaker 1: in the in the on the court, and I play
Speaker 1: a certain way and and I'm excited and I'm energetic
Speaker 1: in that environment. But then I'll go to you know,
Speaker 1: on a randy Like last night, I went to an
Speaker 1: l A Fitness. I haven't gone to an l A
Speaker 1: Fitness in in months, and I just popped into an
Speaker 1: l A Fitness and I was playing against you know,
Speaker 1: like Mike Dickerson was there, he played in the NBA.
Speaker 1: But most of the guys there were like dudes who
Speaker 1: were lifting weights, who walked into the gym and and
Speaker 1: can barely dribble with their up But I had a
Speaker 1: lot of fun because I love the game in a
Speaker 1: way to where that runs not beneath me, like I
Speaker 1: love I love playing regardless of the setting. And but
Speaker 1: then you have guys that come out of Tussan. There's
Speaker 1: a handful of guys Attitusson that have played professionally overseaser
Speaker 1: in the NBA. And and you know, there's a guy
Speaker 1: named Bryce Cotton who has played in the played in
Speaker 1: the NBA. He has been a multiple time m v
Speaker 1: P of the NBL out in Australia, And like, I
Speaker 1: never see that guy around and he and he lives
Speaker 1: here in the offseason because when he comes home, like
Speaker 1: he just doesn't like playing pick up, so I'll like,
Speaker 1: he will just go do individual workouts, and I'll see
Speaker 1: him maybe once every two or three years at a
Speaker 1: pick up run. But he's not He doesn't really show
Speaker 1: up much. And and it's not because he doesn't love
Speaker 1: the game. It's just because that's the way that he
Speaker 1: chooses to approach the game. He he loves to work individually.
Speaker 1: He views pick up as beneath him for whatever reason,
Speaker 1: and and that's the way that he prefers to approach
Speaker 1: the game. And and everyone is is different. Some people
Speaker 1: love Some people love basketball but don't like watching the NBA.
Speaker 1: Some people like I love basketball, I don't like watching
Speaker 1: college hoops because college hoops is so the level of
Speaker 1: skill versus the level of defense and athleticism is out
Speaker 1: of balance. And so everyone is so athletic and so
Speaker 1: dialed in defensively, but the shot king isn't there. So
Speaker 1: the games are just boring to me. There's not enough
Speaker 1: shot making, there's not enough ability to create open shots
Speaker 1: for teammates. It's kind of jankie to me. So I
Speaker 1: will watch college shops, but I'm I'm not a huge
Speaker 1: fan of watching college hoopes. It doesn't mean I don't
Speaker 1: love basketball. And so yeah, I agree with you. It
Speaker 1: just it just bothers me everyone, everyone. You know. Uh,
Speaker 1: this last thing I'll say about it. Pete in his
Speaker 1: podcast about two weeks ago, he did one where he
Speaker 1: talked about his his rise in NBA media and how
Speaker 1: he got to where he was, and same thing for
Speaker 1: Mike Trudell and and one of the things yeah, awesome show.
Speaker 1: And one of the things that Pete said was like,
Speaker 1: you know, I I think it's so important are up
Speaker 1: and coming people who are trying to succeed in this
Speaker 1: business two make sure that their individual relationship with basketball
Speaker 1: is exposed in the show, because it's that your genuine
Speaker 1: love for basketball, You're genuine relationship with basketball will reflect
Speaker 1: with more passion then if you had an artificial approach
Speaker 1: or you were trying to pretend to be something you're not.
Speaker 1: You know, That's why I think it's so important for
Speaker 1: you and I as we do this, not to try
Speaker 1: to become what someone else does. But I'm going to
Speaker 1: talk about basketball the way I like to talk about basketball,
Speaker 1: and you're going to do the same, and that will
Speaker 1: naturally manifest in in a more entertaining product because we're
Speaker 1: gonna give a shit about what we're saying. And it's
Speaker 1: not going to be a skip bayless artificial approach to things.
Speaker 1: It's going to be genuine. And I think I think
Speaker 1: that it's important to acknowledge that we can all have
Speaker 1: a different approach in that regard and that it doesn't
Speaker 1: mean we don't love the game exactly. And I think
Speaker 1: that's the thing that like I wish more people like
Speaker 1: because I get d MS as well, and people ask me,
Speaker 1: you know, like how do you grow on you know,
Speaker 1: Twitter or whatever, how do you get a base? And
Speaker 1: I always say, like, you first have to first enjoy
Speaker 1: what you're like putting out your contact that you put
Speaker 1: out you should at least enjoy it, um, And then
Speaker 1: uh go with like be natural with this, shouldn't be
Speaker 1: for shouldn't be something that you're trying to create out
Speaker 1: things like you're not trying to be fake. UM. Do
Speaker 1: stuff that you enjoy and people will naturally gravitate UM
Speaker 1: to that. And I think one thing that people are
Speaker 1: uncomfortable with is disagreeing. And I think it's okay we
Speaker 1: can disagree um as long as you have a stance
Speaker 1: behind it that you can support. And I have a
Speaker 1: stance behind it that I can support. We can disagree,
Speaker 1: like you could see it like, Okay, the game went
Speaker 1: this way. I actual say the game went that way
Speaker 1: if our reasonings, that's fine. I think that's the part
Speaker 1: that people have trouble with this, like disagreeing. Ian would disagree,
Speaker 1: and then it's okay, like it's fine, it's basketball, it's
Speaker 1: not you know, when we disagree, we don't have to
Speaker 1: then move to personal attacks, which I see a lot
Speaker 1: on the timeline. It's very weird. Two people will be
Speaker 1: talking about basketball and all of a sudden it becomes personal,
Speaker 1: like this is basketball. It's supposed to be fun. I
Speaker 1: think we lose that sometimes it's supposed to be enjoyable.
Speaker 1: That's the whole point of this, Um, This is all
Speaker 1: supposed to be an enjoyable thing. So I think that's
Speaker 1: that's important. I think you're right. We both go into
Speaker 1: it with our own kind of views, and that's the
Speaker 1: whole point of this. We all have our own relationship
Speaker 1: with the game. However, we got to it, UM, and
Speaker 1: we're passionate about it. And I think that shows UM
Speaker 1: and all the people on Twitter mostly are have a
Speaker 1: passion towards it in some way. No matter how they
Speaker 1: got there. And I think that's something to remember. But yeah,
Speaker 1: I agree with that, And no matter what you say,
Speaker 1: someone's going to disagree, you know, like like when you
Speaker 1: and I do our postseason podcast where we do you know,
Speaker 1: player rankings and things along those lines, Like you know,
Speaker 1: you and I are going to put a great deal
Speaker 1: of thought into it, and we're gonna come up with
Speaker 1: lists that we believe in, and no matter what someone's
Speaker 1: gonna think it's insane, Like I'm not gonna put you
Speaker 1: honest number one, even if he drops forty seven points
Speaker 1: tonight and wins the game, I'm not gonna put him
Speaker 1: number one because I just don't think he's the best
Speaker 1: basketball player in the world. Um, that doesn't mean I
Speaker 1: disrespect him. I think he's in the top tier of stars.
Speaker 1: I've been incredibly impressed by what he's done in this
Speaker 1: playoff run. Like I think he's put a discernible gap
Speaker 1: between him and someone like James Harden, which is was
Speaker 1: something that was more of a debate last year. You know,
Speaker 1: I I but when I when when that comes out,
Speaker 1: there will be there will likely be somebody in our
Speaker 1: mention saying means stuff, you know, that's just the natural
Speaker 1: progression of things, and it's unfortunate because it would be
Speaker 1: ridiculous if all of us just carried the same opinion
Speaker 1: on this kind of stuff, you know, Like the group
Speaker 1: that I always have run ins with his Golden State
Speaker 1: Warriors Twitter, they are awful to me, like awful, awful,
Speaker 1: awful to me, And it's hilarious because I'm I think
Speaker 1: Steph is one of the ten best players ever. I
Speaker 1: think he has been no lower than the third best
Speaker 1: player in the league for the last seven years. Um,
Speaker 1: I'll probably rank him second or third this year despite
Speaker 1: missing the playoffs, and in general, I think he's one
Speaker 1: of my favorite players. I love his leadership style, I
Speaker 1: love Clay Thompson. I value with Draymond Green does I'm
Speaker 1: Tucson on local, so Steve Kerr is one of my favorites. Like,
Speaker 1: I am a Warriors fan in a lot of ways,
Speaker 1: and they're awful, awful, awful to me because I don't
Speaker 1: put stuff above Lebron And it's just it's just such
Speaker 1: a ridiculous, uh like phenomenon on basketball Twitter. Yeah, for sure,
Speaker 1: I'm blocked by like half of Clippers Twitter for some reason.
Speaker 1: Not a lot of Celtics fans as well. It's fine
Speaker 1: that I've never interacted with and that's just how it goes,
Speaker 1: and that's that's okay. But um, yeah, I've try to
Speaker 1: limit the amount of like quote tweet dunks. Like when
Speaker 1: I first started, I used to do that a lot,
Speaker 1: and now I try to at least limit that a
Speaker 1: little bit to China, not um try to get on
Speaker 1: people that way. But yeah, that's just how it goes.
Speaker 1: That's how Twitter is, um, and that's just how we
Speaker 1: we conversate now. I guess yeah. I I have been
Speaker 1: trying hard to cut back on that too. And then
Speaker 1: I and then I tweeted that thing the other day
Speaker 1: about RCLE and I was like afterwards, I was like,
Speaker 1: why do I even do this anymore? Like, come on, Jayson,
Speaker 1: grow up? You turned dirty this year. Uh. Anyway, Uh,
Speaker 1: that's all we gotta think for today, unless you have
Speaker 1: anything that you want to add. Alright, thank you, thank
Speaker 1: you guys so much for tuning in and listening with us.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna release the podcast version here shortly. Um, that
Speaker 1: episode sixty five that was missing, I tracked it down.
Speaker 1: You have to search for it individually for whatever reason.
Speaker 1: But if you just search stated the Lakers episode sixty five,
Speaker 1: it will pop up. Um. We will be back either
Speaker 1: tomorrow morning or or Thursday morning, depending and probably Thursday
Speaker 1: is my guest. UM. But thank you guys as usual
Speaker 1: for your support. Rojs. I hope you have a good
Speaker 1: day and I will see you in a couple of days. Thanks.
Speaker 1: Everyone appreciate it.