WEBVTT - Xtras: Joker: Folie à Deux 0:00:00.360 --> 0:00:07.960 Warning, Today's episode contains spoilers for Joker Folioder, The Joker 0:00:08.360 --> 0:00:30.240 is Me. This is actually a special edition of X 0:00:30.320 --> 0:00:30.880 ray Vision. 0:00:30.920 --> 0:00:32.400 You will be getting more of these soon. 0:00:32.440 --> 0:00:35.160 This is called x ray Vision Extras. 0:00:35.320 --> 0:00:39.479 And today your host Rosie Knight will be interviewing your 0:00:39.520 --> 0:00:44.000 other host, Jason Concepcion and super producer Duel Monique, who 0:00:44.000 --> 0:00:47.560 has also been on NPR pop Culture Happy Hour recently 0:00:47.920 --> 0:00:51.760 talking about this very movie, asking them their feelings on 0:00:51.920 --> 0:00:53.680 Joker Folio Door. 0:00:53.880 --> 0:00:55.160 So welcome back to the show. 0:00:55.200 --> 0:00:55.480 Guys. 0:00:55.520 --> 0:00:57.200 How's it going I feeling. 0:01:00.840 --> 0:01:05.760 I flew back from vacation week in Kawhi, the Island 0:01:05.760 --> 0:01:08.560 of Beautiful. It was beautiful. It was amazing. Shouts to 0:01:08.640 --> 0:01:13.319 the wonderful people of Hawaii and the island and the 0:01:13.400 --> 0:01:18.319 natural splendor therein And I landed and I got some sleep, 0:01:18.319 --> 0:01:21.360 and then I went to a screening of Todd Phillips's 0:01:21.440 --> 0:01:28.759 latest masterpiece, Joker to and that was I mean, that's 0:01:28.800 --> 0:01:33.839 a vibe shift. And to say the least, I'll say 0:01:33.880 --> 0:01:36.479 this before we really get into it. I think it's 0:01:36.480 --> 0:01:45.000 a courageous movie vision. I think it's a courageous and 0:01:45.040 --> 0:01:45.640 brave vision. 0:01:45.959 --> 0:01:49.240 I have yet to see the courageous and brave vision 0:01:49.280 --> 0:01:52.800 as I was not int invited to go and see 0:01:52.800 --> 0:01:56.080 a screening, and I yesterday instead of going see Joker, Folioda, 0:01:56.160 --> 0:02:00.000 I went and saw both Godzilla movies that came out recently, 0:02:00.080 --> 0:02:02.480 Shin Godzilla and Minus one in black and white as 0:02:02.520 --> 0:02:03.960 part of Beyond Fest, and then I went to the 0:02:04.040 --> 0:02:07.760 Mahro Academia movie premiere because I like to enjoy my life. 0:02:07.880 --> 0:02:10.760 So, guys, let's talk about Joke up folly you duh? 0:02:11.000 --> 0:02:13.519 Joel? Will you give us a rundown. 0:02:13.160 --> 0:02:16.280 Of what the movie is about and kind of a 0:02:16.320 --> 0:02:18.480 brief kind of recap of the situation. 0:02:18.880 --> 0:02:21.320 Okay, So we're picking up right after Joker, So if 0:02:21.320 --> 0:02:23.160 you saw a Joker, there's nothing in between, and you 0:02:23.200 --> 0:02:25.320 just pick and right back up. He's in prison. And 0:02:26.160 --> 0:02:29.960 imagine every prison movie you saw in the eighties and nineties. 0:02:30.040 --> 0:02:33.600 That's exactly where you are. Okay, prison subs, guys, it's bad. 0:02:33.760 --> 0:02:38.560 It's essentially a nineteen fifties mental health institution where everybody's 0:02:38.960 --> 0:02:41.680 individually locked in their own cells. You don't share, that 0:02:41.680 --> 0:02:45.919 seems nice. The guards are all irish and assholes for 0:02:45.960 --> 0:02:49.400 some reason. And if you're fortunate enough, you get a 0:02:49.400 --> 0:02:52.480 little wreck time, and then you get to go over 0:02:52.560 --> 0:02:55.839 to the other prison where the non lethal ones are, 0:02:56.000 --> 0:02:59.360 and there you're gonna discover Harley Quinn. What up, she's 0:02:59.400 --> 0:03:03.280 excited to see joker. Kay, yes, listen, she's there. 0:03:03.400 --> 0:03:04.640 She's really a big fan. 0:03:05.080 --> 0:03:06.520 She's a big fan Bigan. 0:03:06.760 --> 0:03:09.720 Harley Quinn is a big fan. Yes, yes, she's clearly 0:03:10.160 --> 0:03:12.480 in the rooting section. Okay. So his lawyer and his 0:03:12.600 --> 0:03:15.160 caseworker are there and they're like, hey, do you have 0:03:15.360 --> 0:03:18.400 d I D and jokers? Like, I don't know, maybe 0:03:19.040 --> 0:03:22.440 they're like, oh no, definitely, uh. Mentally you have d 0:03:22.520 --> 0:03:24.800 I D. That's what's going on. We need you to 0:03:24.880 --> 0:03:26.920 say that so that the court will like help you. 0:03:26.960 --> 0:03:28.560 The court is not gonna help him, so it's gotta 0:03:28.600 --> 0:03:28.919 go back. 0:03:29.080 --> 0:03:32.080 Yes, this is why I find Okay, Okay, let me pause. 0:03:32.560 --> 0:03:35.520 It's it's like, let me pouse twelve like twelve angry 0:03:35.560 --> 0:03:39.840 men type burdhouse drama with much less suspense. 0:03:39.920 --> 0:03:40.160 Wow. 0:03:40.440 --> 0:03:43.080 Okay, Jason, I want to ask you a question, as 0:03:43.400 --> 0:03:46.440 you know, someone who loves Batman like is in the Batman. 0:03:46.480 --> 0:03:48.880 But this is not sounding very comic book accurate. Does 0:03:48.920 --> 0:03:51.600 it feel like there's any comic book influence in that 0:03:51.800 --> 0:03:54.840 vision of Arkham Asylum. 0:03:54.880 --> 0:04:00.760 Well, I'll say this, the part that does attempt to 0:04:00.800 --> 0:04:09.000 tie into the larger Batman universe that exists is kind 0:04:09.000 --> 0:04:11.680 of like the most it's the weird it's almost the 0:04:11.720 --> 0:04:15.280 weirdest part of the film. And the film is so 0:04:15.680 --> 0:04:19.600 fucking weird. Like they do at the end, yes, yes, 0:04:19.680 --> 0:04:24.880 the very gesture at being like, hey, here's how so 0:04:25.160 --> 0:04:30.960 actually this crazy movie does lead into the Nolan verse. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:04:31.000 --> 0:04:36.039 by setting up kind of like who the Joker from 0:04:36.160 --> 0:04:37.160 the Dark Night? 0:04:37.600 --> 0:04:38.599 Is wild? 0:04:39.040 --> 0:04:42.600 But weirdly, it's like the most discordant part of this 0:04:42.880 --> 0:04:46.839 of the whole thing, because it feels like the only 0:04:47.040 --> 0:04:51.200 part of the film where Todd Phillips lost. You know, 0:04:51.279 --> 0:04:53.760 this entire film is like Todd Phillips being like, fuck you, 0:04:53.839 --> 0:04:55.560 I'm doing it my way. Fuck you, I'm doing it 0:04:55.600 --> 0:04:59.480 my way. I'm doing this. So we're opening with a 0:04:59.600 --> 0:05:05.120 musical thing. The musical songs are gonna continue on. They're 0:05:05.120 --> 0:05:11.080 gonna go on. Also our lead can't sing, but fuck it, 0:05:11.200 --> 0:05:14.280 like we're doing this. And then at the very end 0:05:14.320 --> 0:05:18.039 it feels like he lost that battle of It's only 0:05:18.080 --> 0:05:21.320 at the very end where they make the attempt to 0:05:21.480 --> 0:05:25.719 tie this into Batman movies that exist. That felt like 0:05:25.920 --> 0:05:28.320 he lost that because it felt like something he didn't 0:05:28.320 --> 0:05:28.760 want to do. 0:05:28.839 --> 0:05:30.520 I'm gonna say, look, I don't want to be here, 0:05:31.080 --> 0:05:33.800 you know me. I'm a zaz Lav critic, but I 0:05:33.839 --> 0:05:38.800 will say Todd Phillips has actually surprisingly been very emphatic 0:05:38.880 --> 0:05:41.320 about the fact that that was his idea and that 0:05:41.800 --> 0:05:45.320 there's never been another time when he ever said that 0:05:45.560 --> 0:05:49.120 Arthur Fleck was really the Joker, and so who knows, 0:05:49.279 --> 0:05:51.320 maybe they paid him money that he agreed. 0:05:51.800 --> 0:05:54.800 But uh, let's see how we get there first, Like Joel, 0:05:54.839 --> 0:05:55.680 what happens in the court? 0:05:55.720 --> 0:05:58.200 Okay? Yes, Kittinue okay. 0:05:58.360 --> 0:06:01.520 So Joker has this awakening where he is like some 0:06:01.720 --> 0:06:04.640 what's the song Somebody loves Me? And he's like, okay, 0:06:05.200 --> 0:06:10.080 this woman loves me. I can transform. Now you get umbrellas? 0:06:10.279 --> 0:06:15.440 Uh is it true? Shub thank you reference without any 0:06:15.560 --> 0:06:18.640 music for some reason, It's crazy. The references are here, 0:06:18.680 --> 0:06:21.160 they connect to nothing. Well, you get to the courtroom 0:06:21.200 --> 0:06:23.040 and stands everywhere. 0:06:22.600 --> 0:06:26.520 The references in this movie are are references from the 0:06:26.600 --> 0:06:32.599 seventies and eighties. Incredible like these, I don't understand why, 0:06:33.240 --> 0:06:37.080 Why is it pop culture references from the seventies and eighties. 0:06:37.680 --> 0:06:40.040 Okay, it was just him. 0:06:40.400 --> 0:06:43.080 It was just him basically remaking it was like ready 0:06:43.080 --> 0:06:45.320 play a one for Martin Scorsese, So I guess this 0:06:45.400 --> 0:06:47.240 time he was like, I guess, I bet reference some 0:06:47.320 --> 0:06:48.920 other old stuff. 0:06:48.720 --> 0:06:50.680 With kind of the vibes. When we get to the courthouse, 0:06:50.680 --> 0:06:52.640 there are tons of fans, and then this sort of 0:06:52.680 --> 0:06:57.360 movie becomes a little bit about toxic fandom for a minute, like, Okay, 0:06:57.400 --> 0:07:01.000 the fans are here, they're rooting for him a little bit. Yeah, yeah. 0:07:01.200 --> 0:07:05.279 Harley Quinn becomes she's like really pushing him. She's like, hey, babe, 0:07:05.320 --> 0:07:06.760 you're the Joker, and I don't even know why you're 0:07:06.760 --> 0:07:08.800 trying to fuck around with arth reflect Dude, I don't 0:07:08.800 --> 0:07:10.880 know him. You don't like him. They don't want him 0:07:11.200 --> 0:07:14.040 be the Joker. She's like, I'm like, just like you, buddy, 0:07:14.200 --> 0:07:16.240 Like we're from the same neighborhood and we have the 0:07:16.240 --> 0:07:19.720 same problems. I hate my dad, asshole. He died and 0:07:19.760 --> 0:07:21.240 I was happy. He's like, you were happy when your 0:07:21.280 --> 0:07:21.760 mom died. 0:07:21.760 --> 0:07:22.400 We're the same. 0:07:22.720 --> 0:07:24.880 Later, Joker's lawyer comes up and he's like, uh, yeah, 0:07:24.880 --> 0:07:26.119 I don't know if you know it. But this girl's 0:07:26.160 --> 0:07:30.160 a liar. She's super rich, her parents are alive, and 0:07:30.280 --> 0:07:33.080 guess what she checked herself in here. Also, she has 0:07:33.120 --> 0:07:36.440 a master's degree in psychology, so she's playing around with you. 0:07:36.640 --> 0:07:38.920 It's crazy. They did keep that pop. 0:07:38.720 --> 0:07:41.480 They we can talk more about whether that works or 0:07:41.520 --> 0:07:44.360 not later. And at this point, Joker also stops taking 0:07:44.400 --> 0:07:47.200 his meds, and so Arthur's like, okay, I'm fully going 0:07:47.240 --> 0:07:49.280 to embrace it. And it sort of seems to be 0:07:49.280 --> 0:07:52.600 working like the girl likes him. He gets a conjugal visit. 0:07:53.760 --> 0:07:58.920 It's weird. Back of court, it's super crazy. He fires 0:07:58.920 --> 0:08:02.360 his lawyer and he starts to represent himself in full 0:08:02.440 --> 0:08:05.880 Joker page. The judge is like, hey, look, no rules, 0:08:05.880 --> 0:08:07.600 but this court will not become a circus, as if 0:08:07.600 --> 0:08:09.640 he hasn't already lost all grounded. 0:08:09.640 --> 0:08:33.040 It is effing chaos. Okay. 0:08:33.240 --> 0:08:35.880 Questions that you may have issues up to this. 0:08:35.760 --> 0:08:40.400 Point, Okay, So yeah, let's talk about Lee as I 0:08:40.440 --> 0:08:43.400 believe she's known in her Lady Gaga. 0:08:44.440 --> 0:08:46.000 How did that performance go for you? 0:08:46.080 --> 0:08:46.360 Jason? 0:08:46.400 --> 0:08:50.360 Tell me you said this was a visionary and courageous choice. 0:08:50.360 --> 0:08:51.160 Do you believe that? 0:08:51.320 --> 0:08:53.600 Goes over to Harley Quinn. 0:08:54.800 --> 0:08:55.280 I don't. 0:08:55.600 --> 0:09:02.480 She's like weirdly inert in this movie, a lot less 0:09:02.520 --> 0:09:08.760 than you expect and is a lot less influential than 0:09:08.800 --> 0:09:13.199 you expect, except for a few moments and the fact 0:09:13.200 --> 0:09:17.960 that spoiler she outlives the joker. You know, it's She's 0:09:18.000 --> 0:09:22.280 not a huge part of this film, really, Joelle. 0:09:22.320 --> 0:09:27.599 Your thoughts, Yeah. 0:09:25.360 --> 0:09:28.000 This film wanted to be a musical, but it didn't, 0:09:28.040 --> 0:09:30.480 and it has a deep misunderstanding of what a musical 0:09:30.640 --> 0:09:35.280 is and why musicals exist. Right, So, musicals exist so 0:09:35.320 --> 0:09:39.440 that when you reach a point of such exhalation or depression, 0:09:39.559 --> 0:09:41.480 you open up and saying any kind of peak emotion. 0:09:41.960 --> 0:09:45.440 That's when you sing. There's no organization to the music 0:09:46.120 --> 0:09:49.600 because she's partnered with Joaquin who again was a great 0:09:49.679 --> 0:09:52.160 Johnny Cash and was able to keep in that very 0:09:52.200 --> 0:09:55.359 limited register. It doesn't apply to the songs they selected 0:09:55.400 --> 0:09:57.520 for him. Again, there's no musical here was involved with this. 0:09:57.640 --> 0:09:59.560 I just can't. I'm sorry to the filmmakers, but it 0:09:59.600 --> 0:10:01.679 just wasn't. How happening with the. 0:10:01.760 --> 0:10:04.640 Like I'm very interested in those weird, like old timey 0:10:04.679 --> 0:10:06.839 show tunes that they picked, like does that? 0:10:07.040 --> 0:10:10.120 Oh nothing, here's no here's the bar for song choice. 0:10:10.360 --> 0:10:13.480 Did it have joker gesture or a smile reference in 0:10:13.520 --> 0:10:16.959 the song? It's allowed in the movie. I'm serious that 0:10:17.040 --> 0:10:20.280 it was the bar. There's no other reference point for 0:10:20.360 --> 0:10:23.720 any of the stuff. Some of these songs are performed 0:10:23.840 --> 0:10:27.880 in full, some are performed in part. Some are reprised 0:10:28.160 --> 0:10:32.240 literally five times. It's a chaotic experience. And they forced 0:10:32.240 --> 0:10:34.360 God Got to try to match with her singing partner, 0:10:34.360 --> 0:10:38.680 and it just doesn't quite work. She's trying, her voice 0:10:38.720 --> 0:10:41.439 is still there. Let her and also let Harley Quinn 0:10:41.440 --> 0:10:44.160 be a badass like Harley Quinn. We have so many 0:10:44.280 --> 0:10:47.960 adaptations of this character that work really well, and for 0:10:48.000 --> 0:10:50.719 them to come in, bring her in, sort of keep 0:10:50.760 --> 0:10:53.400 the character, but not really let her do anything, and 0:10:53.440 --> 0:10:56.440 again a fundamental misunderstanding of what makes Harley Harley. I've 0:10:56.480 --> 0:10:58.320 now seen a great Harley adaptation where she has no 0:10:58.320 --> 0:11:00.520 connection to the Joker and seen Sick where she has 0:11:00.559 --> 0:11:03.200 a good one like a good like built off of 0:11:03.679 --> 0:11:05.880 what her relationship with the Joker is, and they don't 0:11:05.880 --> 0:11:08.680 want to really explore that at all, like truly, like 0:11:08.720 --> 0:11:10.520 what is the obsession with fandom? This is a movie 0:11:10.559 --> 0:11:14.360 about a creator exploring fandom from outside of fandom, and 0:11:14.400 --> 0:11:18.199 therefore he can't actually critique like what's happening inside of fandom. 0:11:18.520 --> 0:11:20.160 You know, it's just a reaction to it. 0:11:20.720 --> 0:11:22.439 I feel, let's talk about that. 0:11:22.440 --> 0:11:25.680 Because Jason, like something you were really moved by in 0:11:25.760 --> 0:11:28.520 this movie, like says like the movie's basically saying fuck 0:11:28.559 --> 0:11:30.480 you to everyone, right, Like, let's talk. 0:11:30.360 --> 0:11:33.000 About Yeah, I'm not moved by this movie. Sorry, sorry, sorry, 0:11:33.000 --> 0:11:37.360 I just did. I just think that. I just think 0:11:37.440 --> 0:11:39.840 that Todd Phillips has done something very brave, which is 0:11:39.920 --> 0:11:45.240 basically say, if you liked The Joker, my billion dollar 0:11:45.440 --> 0:11:51.440 R rated film, a historic box office smash, The Joker, 0:11:52.360 --> 0:11:57.520 then you are a piece of shit. You misunderstood everything 0:11:57.559 --> 0:12:02.000 I was trying to do, and you're wrong. And now 0:12:02.040 --> 0:12:06.959 I'm going to drag you across the rugged two hour 0:12:07.160 --> 0:12:12.080 face of this movie and show you in detail how 0:12:12.200 --> 0:12:15.680 fucking wrong you are to have liked this character and 0:12:15.840 --> 0:12:18.320 liked this guy. And I think that's a crazy thing 0:12:18.400 --> 0:12:24.160 to do and a weirdly subversive thing to do with 0:12:24.280 --> 0:12:29.600 a megabudget movie, and it's resulted in a product that 0:12:29.840 --> 0:12:32.480 sucks and is tortuous to watch. 0:12:32.600 --> 0:12:37.040 I think that's the big paw Harry's it's an interesting idea. 0:12:37.120 --> 0:12:38.160 It's really brave to. 0:12:38.080 --> 0:12:40.679 Be like, hey, all the people who like the Joker 0:12:41.160 --> 0:12:44.800 are just what the critics said, are weird in cell 0:12:46.040 --> 0:12:49.960 loaners who take this shit way too seriously. Like at 0:12:49.960 --> 0:12:53.280 one point Harley says, we got to give the people 0:12:53.320 --> 0:12:56.760 what they want, and that felt like the thesis statement 0:12:56.800 --> 0:12:59.920 of the entire project, which is like, hey, we got 0:13:00.200 --> 0:13:02.920 to give them what they want. No, we don't. 0:13:03.160 --> 0:13:05.120 But she's also so mad at the Joker at the end, 0:13:05.160 --> 0:13:07.880 she's like, you stole the vision, you stole the illusion 0:13:08.440 --> 0:13:11.080 by not committing to the Joker bit, and so she 0:13:11.160 --> 0:13:12.080 walks away. 0:13:13.080 --> 0:13:16.520 Yeah, she's like the fans stand in whose has to 0:13:16.600 --> 0:13:21.280 be there and be disappointed with like interacting with this 0:13:21.840 --> 0:13:25.800 talisman of fandom that she is like worshiped, and she 0:13:25.960 --> 0:13:27.760 just has to be disappointed by the old thing she 0:13:27.800 --> 0:13:33.200 used to watch them die violently and bleed out. And again, 0:13:33.360 --> 0:13:35.439 I think that's a courageous vision. I think it's a 0:13:35.559 --> 0:13:39.120 terrible fo movie, but I think it's really it's really 0:13:39.160 --> 0:13:41.560 a wild thing to get up there and be like, 0:13:41.679 --> 0:13:44.080 oh you like you like that, you liked what I 0:13:44.120 --> 0:13:44.600 did before? 0:13:44.720 --> 0:13:47.520 Fucking yeah, I actually that's what really I do agree 0:13:47.520 --> 0:13:49.480 with you, and I do think that that is a 0:13:49.559 --> 0:13:51.640 version of a movie like this where I would be 0:13:51.720 --> 0:13:53.640 like a big fan of it and I'd be like, wow, 0:13:53.679 --> 0:13:56.600 that's so interesting. I don't believe that will be this movie, 0:13:56.640 --> 0:13:58.280 just going by how much I did not like the 0:13:58.320 --> 0:13:59.080 first Joker film. 0:13:59.200 --> 0:14:01.400 Okay, so let's let me wrap about the recap that 0:14:01.440 --> 0:14:03.840 we can talk about that. Yeah, yeah, okay, So what 0:14:03.920 --> 0:14:06.920 really works for me? So Joker is his own lawyer, 0:14:06.960 --> 0:14:10.160 and he's Joaquin is doing a crazy like range of 0:14:10.200 --> 0:14:12.959 like he's a Southern lawyer. He is like a British guy. 0:14:13.040 --> 0:14:18.560 He's like bouncing back these personalities exactly, like playing lawyer 0:14:18.640 --> 0:14:20.760 and like really trying to figure out like if you're 0:14:20.800 --> 0:14:24.920 gonna buy into the Okay, Arthur doesn't have the idea 0:14:25.080 --> 0:14:28.120 and he's actually making these choices if and the narrative 0:14:28.160 --> 0:14:30.440 is not clear, so it's really choose your own adventure here, 0:14:30.760 --> 0:14:33.600 maybe go to that. Then they bring in mister Puddles, 0:14:33.600 --> 0:14:35.520 So if you remember the first film, it's his friend 0:14:35.520 --> 0:14:38.640 with dwarf ism. He's played by h lay Gil in 0:14:38.680 --> 0:14:40.600 the film, and lay Gill is my favorite part of 0:14:40.640 --> 0:14:42.880 this movie, Like he kills his role. He came in 0:14:42.880 --> 0:14:44.800 and said, I understand what I'm supposed to do. And 0:14:44.880 --> 0:14:46.520 it starts. It's the only time for me where the 0:14:46.520 --> 0:14:50.000 movie is like consciously making sense because mister Puddles gets 0:14:50.000 --> 0:14:52.680 on the stand and he's like, yo, Arthur, like whatever 0:14:52.840 --> 0:14:56.080 this performance is, it's fucking stupid, Like knock it off, 0:14:56.200 --> 0:14:58.720 Like you terrified me. You really are. You were the 0:14:58.760 --> 0:15:01.040 only person who didn't make fun of me. You gave 0:15:01.080 --> 0:15:03.000 me dignity at work. You were my friend. 0:15:03.320 --> 0:15:03.920 And I don't. 0:15:03.800 --> 0:15:05.560 Understand this person in front of me. I don't understand 0:15:05.560 --> 0:15:07.600 why you think this is funny. This is horrible and 0:15:07.640 --> 0:15:10.360 it's awful, and he breaks Arthur. Arthur is like, I 0:15:10.360 --> 0:15:15.320 gotta stop like pretending. This is when Gaga leaves. I'm sorry. 0:15:15.400 --> 0:15:19.360 Harley Quinn leaves. He calls her, sings her voicemail, He's like, 0:15:19.520 --> 0:15:22.800 come back, like why. A car bomb goes off during 0:15:22.800 --> 0:15:26.200 the trial and he escapes, kills a lot of people. 0:15:26.280 --> 0:15:29.200 Harvey Dent becomes two faces. Oh cool, Joker kind of escapes, 0:15:29.240 --> 0:15:31.480 he meets Harley. Harley's like, yo, you gave up on 0:15:31.480 --> 0:15:34.400 the illusion. I hate it. Goodbye. Joker goes back to prison, 0:15:34.440 --> 0:15:37.480 where he is stabbed by Heath Ledger's Joker question mark, 0:15:38.360 --> 0:15:40.560 that's the movie, guys, the whole thing. 0:15:40.760 --> 0:15:44.880 I believe his name is young inmate in the credits, Andy, 0:15:45.320 --> 0:15:46.720 I actually did. 0:15:46.520 --> 0:15:48.600 Look this guy up and. 0:15:50.160 --> 0:15:52.600 He really really really. 0:15:52.280 --> 0:15:54.440 Looks like like a Joker. 0:15:54.480 --> 0:15:57.320 I have to say this, like, he he does look 0:15:57.400 --> 0:15:58.840 like somebody who could play the Joker. 0:15:58.960 --> 0:15:59.880 So like good costing. 0:16:00.400 --> 0:16:02.520 But yes, I will say I think you guys raise 0:16:02.560 --> 0:16:03.120 a good point. 0:16:03.520 --> 0:16:07.320 It does seem that it would be the Joker that 0:16:07.360 --> 0:16:12.080 we know from Heath Ledger's iconic performance because he basically cuts. 0:16:11.800 --> 0:16:14.040 A smile into his face at the end, right, yes. 0:16:14.000 --> 0:16:17.600 Which is not something I've seen a lot of ending 0:16:17.640 --> 0:16:20.640 explains and stuff where they seem kind of confused about, well, 0:16:20.680 --> 0:16:22.520 this is just how all the Jokers are, but it's not. 0:16:22.600 --> 0:16:25.640 We know most Jokers are created by acid or falling 0:16:25.640 --> 0:16:26.560 in the acme pit. 0:16:47.960 --> 0:16:49.720 How did that moment go for you? 0:16:49.760 --> 0:16:51.560 Because, like you said, I when I read about that, 0:16:51.640 --> 0:16:53.080 I was like, you know what. 0:16:54.600 --> 0:16:57.320 I prefer this idea that Arthur Fleck was never Joker 0:16:57.320 --> 0:17:00.760 because it's just such a bad origin story for Joka. 0:17:00.880 --> 0:17:03.640 And uh, Todd Phillips has said, you know, it was 0:17:03.720 --> 0:17:06.840 never called the Joker. It was called Joker, and and 0:17:06.880 --> 0:17:09.160 it was never the origin story of the Joker. 0:17:09.240 --> 0:17:10.919 It was an origin story. 0:17:10.960 --> 0:17:12.760 So he's kind of saying he was planning this from 0:17:12.760 --> 0:17:14.800 the beginning, But how did this moment hit for you? 0:17:14.880 --> 0:17:16.480 Like in the cinema, Jason. 0:17:16.720 --> 0:17:19.919 It just didn't. It didn't make any None of this 0:17:20.080 --> 0:17:25.320 movie hit and for me at all. As you're watching this, 0:17:25.440 --> 0:17:29.000 Lady Gaga is singing, that's life and the whole thing 0:17:29.080 --> 0:17:33.280 just wait wait, wait, wait wait are you saying, Angine weird, 0:17:34.080 --> 0:17:40.159 that's life? Oh god, that's what the people say. Yeah, 0:17:40.480 --> 0:17:44.320 And so you're I'm just saying, like, listen, if you 0:17:44.520 --> 0:17:48.560 try to this is what we do on this pod, right, 0:17:48.560 --> 0:17:50.520 because we are these people who are like, how does 0:17:50.560 --> 0:17:52.920 this work in the cannon? If you try and engage 0:17:52.920 --> 0:17:55.080 that part of your nerd brain, how does this work? 0:17:55.160 --> 0:17:56.640 It doesn't. It doesn't work. 0:17:56.680 --> 0:17:58.960 It doesn't work timeline, it's totally off. 0:17:59.119 --> 0:18:02.000 So they have courtright somewhere of who this guy is. 0:18:02.240 --> 0:18:08.360 They would have their problem, like I didn't they know. Yeah, 0:18:08.400 --> 0:18:10.840 they got him, they arrested him, they fingerprinted them, they 0:18:10.840 --> 0:18:13.320 know who the fuck this guy is. Like, it doesn't 0:18:13.320 --> 0:18:15.600 make any sense. And if you try and do that 0:18:16.119 --> 0:18:19.639 you'll you'll just run around in circles. It just was, 0:18:19.960 --> 0:18:25.159 in a weird way, the perfect discordant end cap to 0:18:25.320 --> 0:18:32.280 a completely chaotic, nine nonsensical movie that again felt purposefully 0:18:32.320 --> 0:18:36.880 designed to make you feel like, if you like this, 0:18:37.000 --> 0:18:41.800 if you were looking forward to it, you're dumb. Fuck you, Yeah, yeah, 0:18:41.840 --> 0:18:42.520 you're dumb. 0:18:42.760 --> 0:18:43.000 Yeah. 0:18:43.080 --> 0:18:46.199 Okay, Well, I will say it does seem like the 0:18:46.280 --> 0:18:49.520 audience understood that, because we are recording this on Monday 0:18:49.520 --> 0:18:56.920 morning and Joker didn't jo it's it's got the worst 0:18:57.280 --> 0:19:02.720 audience score a D cinema, any sub morbi a sub 0:19:02.880 --> 0:19:05.680 may I say, Madam Webb, of any comic book movie 0:19:05.680 --> 0:19:06.560 made by Hollywood. 0:19:06.640 --> 0:19:07.760 Also, I will say. 0:19:07.520 --> 0:19:11.080 It only opened to forty million dollars, which is six 0:19:11.119 --> 0:19:12.800 million less than the Marvels. 0:19:13.640 --> 0:19:16.800 So I'd like to see all the comic Let's see all. 0:19:16.680 --> 0:19:20.240 The conversations about whether this means white guys shouldn't have 0:19:20.400 --> 0:19:21.080 a superhero. 0:19:21.520 --> 0:19:22.960 I'm sure that's what's gonna happen. 0:19:23.080 --> 0:19:25.560 Definitely, son As, we have to wrap, but I think 0:19:25.560 --> 0:19:27.639 we have time for one last question, and if I 0:19:27.640 --> 0:19:31.679 could just combine in that for you guys, DC, this 0:19:31.840 --> 0:19:35.679 is like their fifth flop Aquaman didn't do good. We 0:19:35.760 --> 0:19:38.399 lost on all versions of Justice League. It's been a 0:19:38.440 --> 0:19:43.359 string of Blue Beetles, yes, missus, and with the gun 0:19:43.440 --> 0:19:47.240 Universe coming out, we have two successes with the Reeves verse. 0:19:48.160 --> 0:19:50.960 Is this What does this mean for DC? It doesn't 0:19:51.000 --> 0:19:52.320 affect them at all. 0:19:52.520 --> 0:19:54.480 I don't think it means anything for DC. 0:19:54.760 --> 0:19:58.280 Honestly, this is actually the best thing that could have 0:19:58.320 --> 0:20:00.919 happened for the James gunnerverse, because if this movie had 0:20:00.920 --> 0:20:03.800 made a billion dollars again, then the execs would have said, 0:20:03.880 --> 0:20:05.199 why isn't this included? 0:20:05.640 --> 0:20:08.040 So this flopping is actually fantastic. 0:20:08.200 --> 0:20:11.600 And I think that Todd Phillips being sassy about James 0:20:11.680 --> 0:20:15.320 Gunn and the new regime is also great because James 0:20:15.359 --> 0:20:18.320 Gunn has shown he's not afraid to bring stuff in 0:20:18.480 --> 0:20:21.560 from the old, stuff like Blue Beetle. Also, Let's be real, 0:20:21.760 --> 0:20:24.199 one of the best DC movies, and probably part of 0:20:24.200 --> 0:20:26.840 why James Gunn is in this position is the Suicide Squad. 0:20:26.960 --> 0:20:29.560 That was also a notable financial flop, but it was 0:20:29.600 --> 0:20:32.919 a creative master work. So I think this means nothing, 0:20:33.040 --> 0:20:35.800 and honestly, it's the best case scenario. So we don't 0:20:35.800 --> 0:20:38.399 get stuck in this grim, gritty world when James Gunn's 0:20:38.480 --> 0:20:39.240 universe starts. 0:20:39.440 --> 0:20:42.800 I completely completely agree. I think that there's a world 0:20:43.040 --> 0:20:50.560 in which guns a smart gut and he's probably seeing dailies, 0:20:50.600 --> 0:20:54.840 weeklies and cuts of this, and I think, to your point, 0:20:54.880 --> 0:20:56.680 the worst thing that can happen is like, this is 0:20:56.720 --> 0:20:58.879 a success, and then you have some suits going why 0:20:58.920 --> 0:21:01.280 don't we handle this? Why don't we hand it to 0:21:01.320 --> 0:21:02.920 the guy who made a billion dollars with a joke, 0:21:03.960 --> 0:21:07.680 And I'm Gunn just probably looked at this and went, 0:21:07.760 --> 0:21:09.280 let me just step back and get out of them. 0:21:09.359 --> 0:21:11.080 Yep, that's what Todd Phillip said. He said, they did 0:21:12.040 --> 0:21:12.439 do with it. 0:21:12.480 --> 0:21:14.919 So let him cook, and he's cooked, of course, and 0:21:14.960 --> 0:21:18.680 now you know, let him cook, him cook, maybe he 0:21:18.800 --> 0:21:20.320 self out of the ring. 0:21:20.320 --> 0:21:23.760 Cook himself out of the running, and make this undelicious movie. 0:21:23.840 --> 0:21:25.520 Well, I want to say, guys, thank you so much 0:21:25.600 --> 0:21:26.560 for sharing this with me. 0:21:27.640 --> 0:21:31.720 I'm not a follierder, I'm not the. 0:21:31.680 --> 0:21:34.920 Target audience, and I appreciate you guys taking this the team. 0:21:35.400 --> 0:21:38.400 And we were right, we were we were right. 0:21:38.480 --> 0:21:41.119 We knew this and that happened, and you know what, 0:21:41.240 --> 0:21:44.280 thank you Joel for always joining us with your insightful, 0:21:44.440 --> 0:21:46.000 brilliant thoughts. 0:21:45.560 --> 0:21:47.920