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Speaker 1: On the Bechde Cast, the questions asked if movies have

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Speaker 1: women and them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,

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Speaker 1: or do they have individualism? It's the patriarchy, zeph and

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Speaker 1: Vast start changing it with the Bechdel Cast.

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Speaker 2: Bo Wow, incredible.

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Speaker 3: It was me barfing and shitting at the same time.

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Speaker 2: God, something really so satisfying about seeing someone just slip

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Speaker 2: around in their own.

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Speaker 3: Goof, especially a rich fuck slipping around in their own waist.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, from both holes, just projectile both holes. And that

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Speaker 2: is the thing that I remembered most strongly about this movie.

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Speaker 2: And what does that mean? I was like, yeah, class commentary, mmmmmmmm,

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Speaker 2: And do you remember the scene where both holes were exploding?

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Speaker 2: And I think that's just like human nature. I knew

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Speaker 2: that there was a deep message. And I saw this

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Speaker 2: movie I think twice, and as I was returning to

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Speaker 2: it last night, I was like, hmmm, when is both

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Speaker 2: holes happening? Yeah, Welcome to the Bechtel Cast. My name

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Speaker 2: is Jamie Loftis.

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Speaker 3: My name is Caitlin Derante. This is our show where

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Speaker 3: we examine movies through an intersectional feminist lens, using the

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Speaker 3: Bechdel test as a jumping off point. And that's a test,

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Speaker 3: of course, created by a queer cartoonist, Alison Bechdel. Also

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Speaker 3: she credits Liz Wallace as a co creator. That's why

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Speaker 3: it's sometimes called the Bechdel Wallace test. And it is

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Speaker 3: a medium metric that has many versions. Ours is this

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Speaker 3: due to two characters of a marginalized gender, have names?

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Speaker 3: Do they speak to each other? And is their conversation

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Speaker 3: about something other than a man? And we especially like

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Speaker 3: it if it's a narratively substantial conversation, a nice, meaty

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Speaker 3: conversation that you could puke up later.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, shit out, puke whatever you want, which, as we'll discuss,

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Speaker 2: is you know, not really that much of a problem

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Speaker 2: in this movie, which is wild in a two and

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Speaker 2: a half hour movie where basically two men start a

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Speaker 2: podcast on a sinking ship that sounds like really fun

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Speaker 2: and they're really like forcing it on the people around

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Speaker 2: them in the way that a lot of podcasters do.

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Speaker 2: It felt like representation matters. So yeah, we say, we

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Speaker 2: were talking about Triangle of Sadness twenty twenty two movie

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Speaker 2: from Oh God, I'm gonna say, Ruben Austland, Is that right? Okay?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? Great?

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Speaker 2: I thought I was gonna have an Ewan McGregor sort

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Speaker 2: of brain problem.

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Speaker 3: No, I think he's going easy on us with his name.

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Speaker 3: This this Ruben Austland.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and this is sort of in I'm excited to

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Speaker 2: talk about. We'll first talk with our guests and also

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Speaker 2: talk about how this movie sort of came out at

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Speaker 2: the time where like Rich People Satire was, there were

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Speaker 2: like five, I think movies and TV shows that had

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Speaker 2: similar themes in like this calendar year. But I like

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Speaker 2: this one the best. So let's let's get our guests.

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Speaker 3: In here, do it. He's a comedian. His new special

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Speaker 3: is out now called Paths with Most Resistance. You can

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Speaker 3: find it on YouTube and eight hundred Pound Gorilla. It's

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Speaker 3: James Adomian.

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Speaker 2: Welcome.

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Speaker 4: Hello, well by Caitlin. Hello, Hello Jamie.

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Speaker 2: How's it going good?

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Speaker 4: Happy to talk to you both. And I was excited

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Speaker 4: to talk about this movie because I remember it being

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Speaker 4: one of two extremely funny movies of twenty twenty two

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Speaker 4: that I laughed a lot at. You know, I don't

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Speaker 4: know if it passes the BEGDL tess, and I was

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Speaker 4: interested in finding out.

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Speaker 2: Let's tell you, we'll get there, We'll get there.

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Speaker 4: It very well might not.

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Speaker 2: What was the other movie in twenty twenty two that

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Speaker 2: was really funny for.

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Speaker 4: You official competition.

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Speaker 3: Oh oh, I haven't seen that me either.

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Speaker 4: You know, it's not Alma Dovar. It looks like an

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Speaker 4: Almodovar movie because it has Penelope Cruz and Antonio Benderis,

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Speaker 4: but I want to see who the director is. It

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Speaker 4: was very, very funny, and it's like a It was

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Speaker 4: clearly like a film in the pandemic because's a very

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Speaker 4: cast of basically three people.

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Speaker 2: Oh huh, oh that rocks.

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Speaker 4: It was basically two actors who hate each other and

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Speaker 4: the Penelope Cruise is the director who puts them in

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Speaker 4: a movie for the first time.

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Speaker 3: Oh, that's a fun premise.

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Speaker 2: That sounds great.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Oh it was Mariano Cone and Gaston Duprat.

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Speaker 2: Okay, the movies. I was thinking this was kind of

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Speaker 2: in conversation with and I was finding like some old

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Speaker 2: kind of clickbaity pieces to this effect was like it

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Speaker 2: was triangle of sadness. It was was it the meal,

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Speaker 2: the food?

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Speaker 3: What was it called the menu?

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Speaker 2: The menu?

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Speaker 1: The food?

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Speaker 2: The meal which didn't do very much for me, nor

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Speaker 2: did glass Onion did even less. And then you have

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Speaker 2: the White Lotus, which I do like. But it was

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Speaker 2: interesting because I feel like these movies all sort of

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Speaker 2: had made being Rich still look kind of fun, and

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Speaker 2: Triangle of Sadness does not make being Rich look fun

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Speaker 2: at all. I feel like it's the only one that

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Speaker 2: really effectively depicts misery at every class level in a

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Speaker 2: really funny way. Anyways, James, what is your history with

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Speaker 2: this movie? This director? Take it away?

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Speaker 4: Okay, So Ruben Oastland, I did not see Force Majeure,

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Speaker 4: which I've been meaning to for years, which was the

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Speaker 4: one about the avalanche at a ski resort. Yeah, and

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Speaker 4: the father who runs away from the family.

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Speaker 3: Which they remade as an American movie with I want

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Speaker 3: to say, Will.

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Speaker 2: Ferrell and Julia Louis Dreyfus. Yeah, I haven't seen either.

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Speaker 3: I should.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, let's do more American remakes of everything. There was

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Speaker 4: too much snow. So I did see, uh, probably in

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Speaker 4: twenty eighteen. I believe his previous film, you know, the

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Speaker 4: second of the three that I know of, The Square,

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Speaker 4: The Square, which was very funny and I wasn't expecting

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Speaker 4: it to be. I thought it was going to be

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Speaker 4: like an art film, and it was much funnier. Than

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Speaker 4: I thought it was going to be. And that was

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Speaker 4: kind of like a satire of the art world and

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Speaker 4: how people have to pretend that obviously ridiculous art is

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Speaker 4: very important. Right. There was moments of that in this

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Speaker 4: movie that are very very funny in The Square. So

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Speaker 4: I guess, you know, you make a couple funny movies.

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Speaker 4: If it runs two weeks in America, they consider that

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Speaker 4: a hit for an international production. True, And so I

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Speaker 4: mean when I saw there was a preview for this

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Speaker 4: and I was like, this looks interesting. And then I

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Speaker 4: saw I was like directed by you know, from the

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Speaker 4: director of The Square, I was like, yep, that's the one.

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Speaker 4: Gotta catch it. This is for me. Hell yeah, I

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Speaker 4: imagine they must have had to film it during the

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Speaker 4: pandemic as well. If it came out in twenty twenty two,

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Speaker 4: it must have been like an early production or one

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Speaker 4: that they were sitting on.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I was reading up about this production halted for some

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Speaker 3: amount of time because of the pandemic. It was one

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Speaker 3: where they were like doing constant COVID I read something

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Speaker 3: like they did over a thousand COVID tests throughout the production.

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Speaker 3: Each one turned up negative. So yeah, they were like

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Speaker 3: shooting during the I think height of the pandemic.

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Speaker 4: Wow. Yeah, and it's kind of like it's a hermetically

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Speaker 4: sealed cast for most of the movie on a boat

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Speaker 4: or on an island.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's gonna be interesting to have to like spot

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Speaker 2: COVID movies in the future where you're like, why do

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Speaker 2: they never leave this room? And you're like, oh, right, yes.

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Speaker 4: I wonder if there's movies like that from nineteen twenty

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Speaker 4: or nineteen nineteen, right, Yeah, because of the ogs of

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Speaker 4: Spanish Yeah, exactly, No, wonder Buster Keaton was at the

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Speaker 4: front of the house fall on him and something else.

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Speaker 4: It all makes you couldn't get any other actors in

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Speaker 4: there to prop it up. Yeah, And so I was

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Speaker 4: like delighted. I saw this movie an opening weekend Triangle

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Speaker 4: Sadness and really laughed loud, really, like almost too loud

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Speaker 4: the way I do. I really laughed too loud in

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Speaker 4: the theater, But it was it was so fun to

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Speaker 4: see it minded me, you know, after the lockdowns and stuff.

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Speaker 4: It reminded me the joy of like a shared experience

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Speaker 4: of a large room full of people in a packed

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Speaker 4: movie theater laughing at the same moment.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: A beautiful thing.

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Speaker 4: It's a beautiful thing to be a part of. It

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Speaker 4: was it was just so fun. It was so fun,

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Speaker 4: you know, the kind of rolling laughter as a scene

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Speaker 4: builds and goes where you're like, oh no, they're not,

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Speaker 4: Oh yes they are.

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Speaker 2: It's it's fucking awesome, Like I loved. Yeah, getting to

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Speaker 2: see this movie in a full theater everyone should get.

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Speaker 2: Like it still holds up by yourself, but it's way

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Speaker 2: better with people.

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Speaker 4: Right. I actually have not watched it by myself. I'm

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Speaker 4: looking forward to doing that. I thought it was so funny,

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Speaker 4: and it's interesting because it's like there's two parts there.

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Speaker 4: It's basically two different movies.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, kind of three almost.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, before the ship on the ship and then after

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Speaker 4: the shipwreck. Yeah, yeah, you're right. It's like there's a

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Speaker 4: through line of a couple characters basically that go through

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Speaker 4: all three what you could consider short films or something.

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Speaker 4: Who knows, maybe it was written that way in case

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Speaker 4: they you know, they didn't get the funding immediately and

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Speaker 4: had to go the proof of concept short film route,

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Speaker 4: which a lot of people do.

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Speaker 3: Right. Yeah, I feel like this movie could very easily

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Speaker 3: work without part one, which is like just the two

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Speaker 3: models arguing about gender roles.

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Speaker 4: To pay the check.

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Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 2: But he's cooking, Jamie.

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Speaker 3: What's your relationship with the movie.

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Speaker 2: I also saw this movie when it came out. I

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Speaker 2: also have not seen Force Masure. I'm almost certain I've

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Speaker 2: lied about it though, So if I told you I

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Speaker 2: saw it, I was lying to try to get through

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Speaker 2: the conversation a little easier.

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Speaker 4: It's an important movie.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. People do love to say have you seen Force Masure?

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Speaker 2: And I haven't, but I have said I have, but

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Speaker 2: I haven't. So this was my first Rubin also lynd movie,

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Speaker 2: and I really like it, and like we were saying,

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Speaker 2: a lot of similar movies came out around this time,

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Speaker 2: I think this is like the most fun one. I

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Speaker 2: was kind of burned out on this concept, and so

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Speaker 2: I sort of went into this movie not being sure

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Speaker 2: because I think I had already seen the menu at

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Speaker 2: this point and been like, Okay, we'd sea glass Onion

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Speaker 2: later and be like Ryan Johnson made a hundred million

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Speaker 2: dollars doing this movie, Like what are you talking about? Like, sure,

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Speaker 2: you know, eat the rich, but also accept one hundred

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Speaker 2: million dollars shit like that, right, Like Ruben Alson I

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Speaker 2: think gets it the most like clear, and I really

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Speaker 2: enjoyed it. And that's my entire history with this movie, Caitlin,

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Speaker 2: what's your history?

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Speaker 3: Very similar? I saw in theaters, really liked it. It

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Speaker 3: was probably my like fourth favorite movie of twenty twenty two.

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Speaker 3: I've left a lot. I feel like I had a

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Speaker 3: similar theater going experience recently with the Substance, where oh yeah,

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Speaker 3: things escalate and you're just like, oh my gosh, because

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Speaker 3: what's unfolding on screen is just chaos and grotesqueness in

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Speaker 3: a really fun way.

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Speaker 2: I also thought I had seen The Square, but it

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Speaker 2: turns out I was thinking of the movie The Box

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Speaker 2: starring Cameron DS. I was like, wow, that's crazy that

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Speaker 2: he directed The Box.

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Speaker 3: There's also Cube.

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Speaker 4: It'd be really funny if people had like an awards

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Speaker 4: show and they gave the award to a movie thinking

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Speaker 4: it was another movie. Oh no, we were thinking of, oh,

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Speaker 4: not The Box but the Cube. Oh my god.

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Speaker 2: We gave Best International Picture to two thousand and nine

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Speaker 2: movie The Box. Whoops.

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Speaker 3: I haven't seen The Box.

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Speaker 2: It's like, absurdly not very good, but I enjoyed it.

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Speaker 2: They receive a box and if you press the button,

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Speaker 2: you get a million dollars but someone dies.

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Speaker 3: Okay, interesting the end. Well, I'll check it out someday.

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Speaker 3: The point is, I really liked Triangle of Sadness, and

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Speaker 3: I remember it was nominated for a handful of Academy Awards,

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Speaker 3: including Best Picture. I remember the conversation about how Dolly

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Speaker 3: da Leone was snubbed for Best Actress, although she won

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Speaker 3: a couple other accolades that year for the movie won

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Speaker 3: the Palm d'Or it can. So I was like, I

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Speaker 3: have good taste. I liked this movie and other people

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Speaker 3: did too, but anyway, yeah, I really enjoyed it, and

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Speaker 3: there's so much to unpack.

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Speaker 4: You said something interesting. It got nominated for a couple

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Speaker 4: of Oscars, I guess, and I don't. It might have

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Speaker 4: won one, but maybe not. But it struck me as

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Speaker 4: unusual because I'm conditioned to expect that the best movies

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Speaker 4: won't even be considered for Oscars usually, and that there's

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Speaker 4: a certain kind of like less good movie that's considered

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Speaker 4: for Oscars, where they're aiming for the accolades of the

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Speaker 4: award shows. And this didn't feel like that. It felt

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Speaker 4: like much funnier than anything that usually gets considered for

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Speaker 4: an Oscar, So I was interested that it slipped through.

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Speaker 3: The same Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I feel like that's been happening. I mean not to

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Speaker 2: like overgive the Oscars credit, but I feel like that's

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Speaker 2: happening more and more in a way that's kind of

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Speaker 2: encouraging that poor things did it as well as it did.

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Speaker 3: Stuff like that, everything everywhere, all at once from the

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Speaker 3: same year.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, like weird stuff.

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Speaker 3: Well, let's take a quick break and then we'll come

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Speaker 3: back and do the recap.

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Speaker 2: Shall we write?

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Speaker 3: And we're back? All right? So here is the story.

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Speaker 3: We open on a casting call for male models. Here

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Speaker 3: we meet Carl played by Haristick, who goes in for

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Speaker 3: an audition. There's also this like I guess documentarian who's

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Speaker 3: interviewing some of the male models. And it's like, oh,

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Speaker 3: is this a grumpy brand or a happy brand? And

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Speaker 3: the cheaper the product that's being sold, this more smiley

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Speaker 3: the models, And the more expensive the product or the brand,

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Speaker 3: the frownier they are. I thought that was really funny. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: the casting directors see Carl, they're pretty judgy about his appearance.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and you're like, this Swede has a thing or

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Speaker 2: two to say about America, you know.

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Speaker 3: One of them asks Carl to relax his triangle of sadness.

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Speaker 4: Hey, that's the.

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Speaker 2: Name of the movie. We're all cheering. We're cheering. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: the family guye joke.

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Speaker 3: Normally, it doesn't come so soon into the movie. Usually

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Speaker 3: it's like, oh, and that's the silence of the Lambs,

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Speaker 3: and it's like somewhere in the third act, but yes, or.

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Speaker 4: There's like a waste land where dystopia has landed upon

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Speaker 4: the earth and somebody's like, truly, it's always been a

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Speaker 4: triangle of sadness, right, but.

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Speaker 3: This when you get it like five minutes into the movie.

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Speaker 2: Not to keep bringing it up, but I bet that

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Speaker 2: happens in the box. Surely they say the box early

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Speaker 2: on in the movie.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, like what's in the box?

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Speaker 2: What's in the this the box?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? Uh, that should be a quote in every movie,

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Speaker 3: not just seven in the box.

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Speaker 2: It's true. It's wild that it happened twice, and that's

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Speaker 2: the only time the phrase comes up in the entire movie, right,

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Speaker 2: I think, so, yeah, yeah, And it refers to the

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Speaker 2: like area between your eyebrows, crucial.

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Speaker 4: Area of making facial expressions, I guess.

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Speaker 3: Especially sadness.

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Speaker 2: We don't want to be making facial expressions.

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Speaker 4: Now, I'm playing with my triangle of set. I can't help.

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Speaker 4: But when you start talking about it, and.

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Speaker 2: People hate when people move their faces around when you're

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Speaker 2: supposed to look at so way, they're like, have a

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Speaker 2: static a face as humanly possible, because they're.

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Speaker 3: Like, maybe he needs botox and that would really do numbers.

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Speaker 2: He's like twenty four anyways.

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Speaker 3: Okay, So from here the movie is divided into three parts.

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Speaker 3: Part one is called Carl and Yaya, referring to Carl

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Speaker 3: and his girlfriend, whose name is Yaya played by Ooh

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Speaker 3: and I don't actually know how to pronounce her first name.

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Speaker 3: It's just charlby Charleby Okay, yeah, charlby Dean, who is

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Speaker 3: a model and influencer and who makes more money than him, because,

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Speaker 3: as it's mentioned earlier, modeling is one of the few

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Speaker 3: industries where women tend to earn more money than men.

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Speaker 3: And this does not bother him at all. He's not

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Speaker 3: bothered by it. He's absolutely fine with it.

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Speaker 2: It's fine.

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Speaker 3: Huh.

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Speaker 4: Is that when they fight over the check?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So Yaya expects Carl to, for example, pick up

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Speaker 3: the bill at their expensive dinners, and he confronts her this.

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Speaker 3: He also questions why it's so hard for her to

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Speaker 3: talk about money, and he speculates that it's perhaps because

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Speaker 3: it's so tied to gender roles, and he resents that

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Speaker 3: she subscribes to, you know, stereotypical gender roles of the

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Speaker 3: man expected to be the financial provider. He tells her

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Speaker 3: he feels used. He wants their dynamic to feel more equal,

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Speaker 3: and then she's like, but what if I become gregnant

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Speaker 3: and I can't work as a model anymore?

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Speaker 2: What then?

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Speaker 3: And then the conversation kind of like tapers off because

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Speaker 3: we then cut to part two.

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Speaker 2: Unfortunately I do I mean not to say. I frequently say, actually,

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Speaker 2: this whole conversation has been a test and you failed.

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Speaker 2: But you know many such cases it's happened.

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Speaker 3: Well, I mean, I've got thoughts. I can't wait to

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Speaker 3: talk about this because again, there's lots to unpack.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it was interesting for me to watch that scene

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Speaker 4: and see what exploration of like beautiful people having an

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Speaker 4: unpleasant dinner with their problems that they have.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I know, you just don't expect it to happen because.

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Speaker 2: They're talking about money, for sure, but they're also not

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Speaker 2: talking about money, Like it's there's just there's so much

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Speaker 2: going on and they're both so hot and so unable

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Speaker 2: to communicate.

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Speaker 3: Right, it's great. So then part two, called the Yacht,

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Speaker 3: we see a luxury cruise on a large yacht is

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Speaker 3: about to set off and a I don't know what

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Speaker 3: her job is, like guest services director or something, this

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Speaker 3: character named Paula. She's addressing the service crew about how

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Speaker 3: they should work hard to make this a great experience

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Speaker 3: for the wealthy passengers in the hopes that they get

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Speaker 3: a generous tip, and.

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Speaker 2: They start like chanting.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: It kind of reminded me of like the McConaughey and

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Speaker 2: to cap like the chest pounding thing. Yeah yeah, capitalists

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Speaker 2: pounding of the chest scary so scary.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, where it's like, hey, team, get together, time make

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Speaker 4: a bunch of big money. Go team.

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Speaker 2: Yeah right, the chest pound of class mobility.

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Speaker 3: Frightening. So we see them. We also see the like

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Speaker 3: cleaning and housekeeping crew, and there's like a clear class

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Speaker 3: hierarchy even among the crew, because it's implied that they're

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Speaker 3: on a lower hierarchical tier than the service crew. One

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Speaker 3: such member of the housekeeping crew is trying to clean

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Speaker 3: the room of Karl and Yaya who are on this cruise,

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Speaker 3: but they pretty rudely dismiss her, telling her to come

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Speaker 3: back later, and boyd does she come back later? In

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Speaker 3: the story that is wish. Then we see some of

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Speaker 3: the other wealthy passengers on this cruise, such as Dmitri,

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Speaker 3: his wife Vera, and his girlfriend Ludmilla. He's the like,

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Speaker 3: I sell shit guy because he made a fortune from

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Speaker 3: selling fertilizer, like agriculture fertilizer.

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Speaker 4: This is my favorite character in the movie. He's fun

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Speaker 4: This is the James Adomian favorite characters are.

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Speaker 2: Just saying this is just the idea of the King

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Speaker 2: of Shit is just so satisfying.

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Speaker 4: And his name is Latgo Burick, and he's the character

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Speaker 4: actor from Eastern Europe. And I followed him on Instagram

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Speaker 4: after the movie because I thought he was so funny.

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Speaker 2: He's really great. Got him and him and Woody Harrelson.

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Speaker 2: I wouldn't listen to that podcast, but many ex boyfriends would.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. When he's first introduced, I mean, there's there's like

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Speaker 4: a magnetic presence to his character where he's kind of

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Speaker 4: like quizzing the couple that we've already been introduced to

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Speaker 4: and he's like, so you travel the world looking beautiful,

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Speaker 4: a pretty good gig, pretty good gig.

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Speaker 2: Meanwhile, I'm the king of shit.

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Speaker 4: Yeah right, And he's supposed to be like from he's like,

400
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Speaker 4: you know, lived through communism in Eastern Europe somewhere and

401
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Speaker 4: became this like very wealthy capitalist businessman. Yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: They explicitly say he's Russian, so yeah.

403
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Speaker 4: He's right, and the character is Russian. The whole movie

404
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Speaker 4: is full of these topsy turvy things where it's like

405
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Speaker 4: the man who's not making as much as his girlfriend

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Speaker 4: because of this particular industry, and then like the Russian

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Speaker 4: capitalist and the American communists and all this kind of things.

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Speaker 3: You love to see it. So we meet him and

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Speaker 3: his various partners. We meet Clementine and Winston. They're the

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Speaker 3: older British couple who we will later learn our weapons manufacturers,

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Speaker 3: mister and missus.

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Speaker 2: And grenade more industrial complex.

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Speaker 1: Yep.

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Speaker 3: We meet Teres, who recently had a stroke. She uses

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Speaker 3: a wheelchair and has limited speech. She can only say

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Speaker 3: a few words in German as a result of this stroke.

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Speaker 3: Vulcan do we know what this translates to? They say

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Speaker 3: it in the movie up in the sky. Oh okay,

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Speaker 3: so we meet her. We meet this uber rich code

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Speaker 3: developer guy Yarmo, who Carl and Dimitri think seems kind

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Speaker 3: of lonely and pathetic, but then he ends up flirting

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Speaker 3: with both of their girlfriends.

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Speaker 2: And then they lose it.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yes, yes, he seems like the dorky guy

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Speaker 4: and he's the wealthy guy in the boat.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly what.

427
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Speaker 4: The money plays in the board game.

428
00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:38,760
Speaker 3: That's right. Meanwhile, Paula has been knocking on the door

429
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Speaker 3: of Captain Thomas, trying to get him to come out

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Speaker 3: and attend a safety drill or to plan the captain's dinner,

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Speaker 3: but he keeps saying he's not feeling well, though it's

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Speaker 3: heavily implied that he's actually very drunk all of the time.

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Speaker 3: We recognize the voice of Woody Harrelson. Of course, we

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Speaker 3: come back later.

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Speaker 2: Yep, yep.

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Speaker 3: I love his performance. It's incredible.

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Speaker 2: I really love that his I mean, I guess spoilers

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Speaker 2: of you you should just watch the movie. But like

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Speaker 2: that his character is confined to this second act only

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Speaker 2: it just it feels right. I like it.

441
00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:18,840
Speaker 3: Yeah. Then one of the rich people, Vera. This is

442
00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:23,119
Speaker 3: Dimitri's his wife, insists that all the crew should go

443
00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:26,520
Speaker 3: for a swim because quote unquote everyone is equal and

444
00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:31,040
Speaker 3: the crew works too hard, but that night is the

445
00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:33,679
Speaker 3: captain's dinner, and there's not really enough time to like

446
00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:38,600
Speaker 3: facilitate allowing the crew to go for this casual swim.

447
00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:42,080
Speaker 2: Also off the water slide, to like it's just like

448
00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:45,880
Speaker 2: a weird humiliation ritual for the entire crew.

449
00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:51,480
Speaker 3: Absolutely, it's obviously like commentary on what rich people think,

450
00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:54,920
Speaker 3: like their idea of generosity or their idea of equity.

451
00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:55,280
Speaker 3: You know.

452
00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:57,840
Speaker 2: Well, it's like there's all these like repeating like at

453
00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:00,720
Speaker 2: the beginning of the movie, you have like, I don't know,

454
00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:02,960
Speaker 2: I guess this is a Reubenaus and thing. Again, I

455
00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:05,280
Speaker 2: lied about seeing force masure, so I don't fucking know.

456
00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:07,720
Speaker 2: But how at the beginning the fashion show where it

457
00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:09,879
Speaker 2: says like everyone is equal now and you have the

458
00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:12,720
Speaker 2: parade of models, and then that image is kind of repeated,

459
00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:14,560
Speaker 2: and the second act with like the crew on the

460
00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:15,880
Speaker 2: water slide and whatever on.

461
00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:20,560
Speaker 4: And the slogans, the slogans that are deployed in place

462
00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:22,960
Speaker 4: of any kind of fair treatment of people.

463
00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:27,160
Speaker 2: Exactly cynicism masquerading as optimism. I had to keep pausing

464
00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:29,320
Speaker 2: to like write down all the like horseshit that they're

465
00:24:29,359 --> 00:24:31,240
Speaker 2: putting on at the fashion show is fun.

466
00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:36,359
Speaker 3: Something interesting about that scene too, is the there's like

467
00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:38,840
Speaker 3: people sitting in the front row of the fashion show,

468
00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:41,520
Speaker 3: but they're made to move because they're not as important

469
00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:44,240
Speaker 3: as the people who need their seats. So there's like

470
00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:49,040
Speaker 3: all these hierarchies, and even within like upper class people

471
00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:52,560
Speaker 3: or you know, like working class people, there are still hierarchies.

472
00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:57,240
Speaker 3: It's it's very interesting. So there's this swim that the

473
00:24:57,320 --> 00:25:00,359
Speaker 3: rich people are insisting on, and the chef in the

474
00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:02,679
Speaker 3: kitchen are like, well, if we leave the kitchen and

475
00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:06,520
Speaker 3: go for this swim, the food was gonna spoil. But

476
00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:11,920
Speaker 3: everyone's still basically forced to do this crew swim.

477
00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:14,160
Speaker 4: Right, not going to argue about it, right.

478
00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:18,640
Speaker 3: And also a storm is on the horizon, and all

479
00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:22,880
Speaker 3: of this culminates in almost everybody getting very very ill

480
00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:25,840
Speaker 3: at the captain's dinner. They're puking everywhere.

481
00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:27,960
Speaker 2: Well, it's like all the rich people because I also

482
00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:29,359
Speaker 2: didn't pick up on this the first time. It is

483
00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:32,520
Speaker 2: because they're eating the food that is spoiled, and it's

484
00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:35,480
Speaker 2: their fault that it's spoiled. Like that'll bit precisely.

485
00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:38,720
Speaker 4: Yes, it's because they distracted the crew.

486
00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:41,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was like, why are only the rich people

487
00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:42,879
Speaker 2: throwing up? You're like, oh, yeah, because they're eating like

488
00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:45,640
Speaker 2: poisonous jelly or whatever. It's great.

489
00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:48,639
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. So yeah, that's planted. It's

490
00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:50,480
Speaker 3: kind of subtle, so I could see why you would

491
00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:53,200
Speaker 3: miss it. But it seems to be a combination of

492
00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:57,640
Speaker 3: food poisoning and seasickness because there's this like storm that's

493
00:25:57,720 --> 00:26:01,360
Speaker 3: rocking the boat. But the people who avoid it are

494
00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:05,800
Speaker 3: for example, Captain Thomas, who eats a burger and fries

495
00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:07,480
Speaker 3: for dinner, which also.

496
00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:10,439
Speaker 2: Happens in the menu. There's a huge like I was

497
00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:13,439
Speaker 2: born in the middle class, but now I have money.

498
00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:16,000
Speaker 2: Like that is I guess signaled through.

499
00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:20,080
Speaker 3: A cheeseburger eating a yeah exactly. I don't know why

500
00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:25,399
Speaker 3: Dmitri avoids getting sick also, but he manages to evade

501
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:27,080
Speaker 3: the barfing in the diarrhea.

502
00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:29,639
Speaker 4: Right, it's only the people who had the seafood or

503
00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:34,200
Speaker 4: something like that, which is the popular dish. And it's

504
00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:39,480
Speaker 4: a fantastic visual imagery because you realize it's almost like

505
00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:44,879
Speaker 4: the director Rubenoslan, he sets up there's an element of

506
00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:48,280
Speaker 4: setting up these characters as like a kid playing with toys.

507
00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:51,760
Speaker 4: There's these rich people that are dressed in tuxedos and

508
00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:54,720
Speaker 4: now oops, they're gonna shit and vomit everywhere.

509
00:26:56,119 --> 00:27:01,359
Speaker 3: It is honestly one of the most memorable and cathartic

510
00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:05,240
Speaker 3: and gratifying moments I've ever seen in any movie ever.

511
00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:10,119
Speaker 3: Just like watching these rich people in utter despair, humiliated,

512
00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:13,800
Speaker 3: puking everywhere, shitting themselves like helpless.

513
00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:17,520
Speaker 2: It's beautiful. We covered The Exorcist earlier this week, so

514
00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:20,679
Speaker 2: it's just been a really great week for projectile vomit

515
00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:21,480
Speaker 2: on the cast.

516
00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:24,879
Speaker 4: It really has Yeah, huge, I mean, I guess in

517
00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:27,119
Speaker 4: the preview there's some hint that there's something like this

518
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:29,320
Speaker 4: that happens, but you don't realize the scope of this

519
00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:33,560
Speaker 4: scene because you think, like a lot of movies, you're like, well, okay,

520
00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:36,119
Speaker 4: they're gonna cut away from like they're gonna imply it

521
00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:38,760
Speaker 4: and get enough out, and then they're gonna cut away

522
00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:42,320
Speaker 4: to the aftermath or some other way of showing it,

523
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:44,960
Speaker 4: you know, where there will be like we'll just show

524
00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:47,920
Speaker 4: vomit running from under the door or whatever, and then

525
00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:52,600
Speaker 4: you realize shot by shot, oh, he's gonna show all

526
00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:57,280
Speaker 4: of it. He's gonna show like fifty people getting seasick

527
00:27:57,400 --> 00:27:59,080
Speaker 4: and food poisoning at the same time.

528
00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:02,120
Speaker 3: It's like a ten minute sequence. It goes on so long,

529
00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:05,440
Speaker 3: and it keeps escalating too, where like at some point

530
00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:09,440
Speaker 3: the plumbing starts overflowing with literal shit water and it's

531
00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:13,520
Speaker 3: like seeping out into the hallways and everything. So we're

532
00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:17,960
Speaker 3: watching all that unfold. Meanwhile, Captain Thomas and Dimitri are

533
00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:23,199
Speaker 3: getting drunk and discussing their political ideologies, with Captain Thomas

534
00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:26,399
Speaker 3: being a Marxist and Dimitri being a capitalist. And then

535
00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:29,840
Speaker 3: they go into the Captain's quarters and here's a Jamie

536
00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:32,160
Speaker 3: start a podcast over the intercom.

537
00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:34,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a hostage podcast.

538
00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:37,879
Speaker 4: They're speaking over the intercom and presumably everyone's sick and

539
00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:42,400
Speaker 4: recovering from what just happened. And this is my favorite

540
00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:46,240
Speaker 4: scene of the movie, the conversation they have with each other. Yeah,

541
00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:50,920
Speaker 4: because they're both very funny. It's Woody Harrelson, it's Latko Buick,

542
00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:54,760
Speaker 4: and they're these opposites in two different ways, because it's

543
00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:59,760
Speaker 4: the you know, the Eastern European capitalist and the American communist.

544
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:04,920
Speaker 4: She's rare, but not impossible, you know, and uh, it's

545
00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:07,840
Speaker 4: statistically rare, but there's you know, lots of communists in America,

546
00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:10,520
Speaker 4: and they're not just all constantly protesting. Sometimes they have

547
00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:11,560
Speaker 4: jobs and stuff.

548
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:15,040
Speaker 3: Sometimes they're the captain of a luxury cruise.

549
00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:18,400
Speaker 4: It's a little bit of an absurdity. It's definitely like

550
00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:20,840
Speaker 4: a oh, well, that would really happen, but that's not

551
00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:25,080
Speaker 4: why I go to the movies and uh yeah, And.

552
00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:27,200
Speaker 2: It felt like Rubin Assen was like aware of that too,

553
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:29,200
Speaker 2: because the first time I saw it, Like, the scene

554
00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:32,520
Speaker 2: is so fucking funny. The Woody Harreld's character does say

555
00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:35,160
Speaker 2: it where he's like, I'm a shit socialist and it's like, yeah, man,

556
00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:38,680
Speaker 2: you are, like you're your whole like everyone who is

557
00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:42,120
Speaker 2: beneath you. You're just ignoring and literally locking out of

558
00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:44,560
Speaker 2: the room while you discuss theory, which is what a

559
00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:47,840
Speaker 2: lot of Marxists do is instead of going to like

560
00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:49,160
Speaker 2: talk to people.

561
00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:52,440
Speaker 4: It's a great deep irony and the thing is full

562
00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:54,240
Speaker 4: of and this is what I love about him. It's

563
00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:57,720
Speaker 4: these upside down worlds that are then put in conversation

564
00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:01,880
Speaker 4: with each other. And I really though, I mean, there

565
00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:05,040
Speaker 4: was a moment in that scene watching it, where I

566
00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:09,200
Speaker 4: thought the filmmaker Ruben Ostlund was doing something very brilliant

567
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:11,280
Speaker 4: that I had not seen before. Maybe I had read

568
00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:14,160
Speaker 4: it in like an ancient comedy play. It reminded me

569
00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:19,560
Speaker 4: of like Aristophanes, when you're halfway through the proceedings of

570
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:23,000
Speaker 4: a comedy and then the character kind of breaks the

571
00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:26,479
Speaker 4: fourth wall and grandstands directly to the audience. Right.

572
00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:29,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like there's just like a philosophy segment of this.

573
00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:32,960
Speaker 4: Yes, And there's an interesting thing here. It's a captive

574
00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:36,040
Speaker 4: audience on the boat where they're all sick and they

575
00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:38,360
Speaker 4: have to listen. It's the captain. He locked himself in

576
00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:41,240
Speaker 4: the cabin and he's using the PA system from the boat,

577
00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:44,040
Speaker 4: and so they have to either put pillows over their

578
00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:45,840
Speaker 4: ears or they have to listen to it and it

579
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:49,880
Speaker 4: and similarly, the movie audience is a captive audience for

580
00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:54,880
Speaker 4: this message. And it's this sort of politically radical theory

581
00:30:54,960 --> 00:31:00,240
Speaker 4: based history lesson that's delivered by a disc at a

582
00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:04,280
Speaker 4: ted narrator who's drunk and a bad captain. So by

583
00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:07,560
Speaker 4: the rules of comedy, he's allowed to say anything because

584
00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:09,239
Speaker 4: you don't care if he's the good guy or not.

585
00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:14,320
Speaker 4: And then I felt like he was holding the movie

586
00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:19,000
Speaker 4: critics and the elite academy hostage and forcing them to

587
00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:22,600
Speaker 4: listen to this scene and it was so preachy that

588
00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:26,160
Speaker 4: it's overtly preachy in the narrative where they're actually literally

589
00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:29,200
Speaker 4: just on a microphone bothering everybody with a podcast.

590
00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:30,080
Speaker 2: Right.

591
00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:33,800
Speaker 4: I loved when he goes, we knew it was wrong

592
00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:36,560
Speaker 4: when there were all those assassinations in the sixties, and

593
00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:39,680
Speaker 4: I was like, yes, I was like an ale.

594
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:41,080
Speaker 2: Yees a CIA killed MLK.

595
00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:45,080
Speaker 4: Like there, I was like holding back from like vocally

596
00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:47,720
Speaker 4: cheering in the movie theater because I'm like he did it.

597
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:50,560
Speaker 4: He forced everyone in the academy to sit through this

598
00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:54,800
Speaker 4: lecture about how America killed many of its greatest leaders

599
00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:55,800
Speaker 4: back in the sixties.

600
00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:59,320
Speaker 3: He also mentions how, like you know, they'd install these

601
00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:04,560
Speaker 3: like dictators pup dictatorships, yes, in socialist countries in Latin

602
00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:07,680
Speaker 3: America and stuff like that, and You're just like what.

603
00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:11,040
Speaker 3: I also like, how he can't he's too drunk to

604
00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:15,680
Speaker 3: say shit socialist, so you be like I'm a shit socialist. Stop.

605
00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:17,080
Speaker 4: Yeah.

606
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:20,040
Speaker 2: And again like having that like layered sort of thing

607
00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:22,840
Speaker 2: where it's like you're forcing people who do not want

608
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:25,560
Speaker 2: to hear this to listen to it, you're basically locking

609
00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:30,520
Speaker 2: everyone in the room. And like with the Woody Harrelson character,

610
00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:34,320
Speaker 2: he is like a Champagne socialist and like having that

611
00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:36,560
Speaker 2: sort of level too, where it's like he clearly wants

612
00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:40,800
Speaker 2: to argue with this Russian guy more than he wants

613
00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:42,040
Speaker 2: to like do other stuff.

614
00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:44,720
Speaker 4: Yeah, but they're having one of these very they're making

615
00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:47,920
Speaker 4: each other laugh too, which is an interesting thing. Yeah,

616
00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:49,840
Speaker 4: and you wonder how much of that is the actors

617
00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:53,240
Speaker 4: just liking each other. And that scene is also I mean,

618
00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:54,920
Speaker 4: I guess it must be said. It's like the opposite

619
00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:58,920
Speaker 4: of a Bechdel test scene where it's just two guys

620
00:32:59,080 --> 00:32:59,880
Speaker 4: holding everyone off.

621
00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:03,000
Speaker 3: But I don't mind. I'm having a great time watching.

622
00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:06,280
Speaker 2: It, which is wild that like, yeah, this movie does

623
00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:08,840
Speaker 2: actually pass the bactal test, but if there was doubt,

624
00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:11,120
Speaker 2: that scene will only increase the doubt. It's such a

625
00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:13,640
Speaker 2: good scene because it's like they're these characters are like

626
00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:15,120
Speaker 2: weird tethers to each other.

627
00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:19,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, and then Dimitri's like, I'm the new owner of

628
00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:23,440
Speaker 3: this ship and it's going down and everyone's like, oh

629
00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:25,600
Speaker 3: my god. Yeah he's joking, but like, everyone's scared.

630
00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:26,080
Speaker 2: They don't know.

631
00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:28,800
Speaker 3: They think maybe the ship is crashing. There's a huge storm.

632
00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:32,680
Speaker 3: It's wild. It's such a bananas scene that I enjoy

633
00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:36,200
Speaker 3: very much. And again, while they're like doing their political

634
00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:40,440
Speaker 3: ideology podcast over the intercom, we see an addition to

635
00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:43,600
Speaker 3: all the rich people puking and shooting their guts out,

636
00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:48,080
Speaker 3: we see the housekeeping crew trying to clean up the mess,

637
00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:50,840
Speaker 3: kind of to no avail because again the shit water

638
00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:55,800
Speaker 3: is seeping into the carpet and stuff. And then the

639
00:33:55,920 --> 00:34:02,680
Speaker 3: yacht is attacked by like modern day potates via gunfire

640
00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:07,120
Speaker 3: and hand grenades, the very hand grenade that the British

641
00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:11,759
Speaker 3: couple who are weapons manufacturers, they're killed by their own grenade.

642
00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:14,879
Speaker 2: It's so awesome. They're like, oh, it's one of us.

643
00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:20,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, that was a very funny line. Madam Clementine,

644
00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:24,000
Speaker 4: Oh dark, there's a grenade that rolls on and she goes.

645
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:30,640
Speaker 3: It's cut to explosion. They die. The yacht presumably sinks,

646
00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:34,680
Speaker 3: because then we cut to part three, called the Island,

647
00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:38,560
Speaker 3: where a few people have made it to a nearby

648
00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:41,360
Speaker 3: island that seems uninhabited.

649
00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:44,440
Speaker 2: Wait, Caitlin, did you think I was like, well, it's

650
00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:47,320
Speaker 2: like they skipped the second half of the movie Titanic,

651
00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:49,040
Speaker 2: like they just were like, a.

652
00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:52,359
Speaker 4: Few hours later, the whole shipwreck, we just we don't

653
00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:57,040
Speaker 4: even do it. Because that's interesting because you know, James

654
00:34:57,040 --> 00:35:01,160
Speaker 4: Cameron would make that the entire movie, and well, yeah,

655
00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:03,239
Speaker 4: there's many filmmakers that would be like, we gotta get

656
00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:05,399
Speaker 4: eyes on all these people who've just vomited as they're

657
00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:07,440
Speaker 4: as they're slowly sinking in a shipwreck.

658
00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:09,920
Speaker 3: I feel like Reuben Austin was either like, well, yeah,

659
00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:12,479
Speaker 3: we've already seen that movie, or he's like, we don't

660
00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:15,240
Speaker 3: have the budget for a shipwreck, so we're just gonna

661
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:17,400
Speaker 3: cut to we blew everything on the vomit.

662
00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:22,400
Speaker 2: It works. I Like I remember, like for the for

663
00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:24,600
Speaker 2: the first ten minutes of the Island sequence, the first

664
00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:26,320
Speaker 2: time I saw it, I was like, all right, Woody

665
00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:29,239
Speaker 2: Harrelson's gonna be back any second now, and then you're like, oh,

666
00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:30,200
Speaker 2: he's not coming.

667
00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:30,680
Speaker 3: He didn't.

668
00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:33,320
Speaker 4: He just implied he didn't survive the shipwreck.

669
00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:35,799
Speaker 3: Well, the captain always goes down with the ship.

670
00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:40,359
Speaker 2: Captain, So was he really a shit socialist after all?

671
00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:41,920
Speaker 3: True?

672
00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:42,760
Speaker 2: He's for the people.

673
00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:47,839
Speaker 3: Yeah, Okay, so survivors on the island include yah Yan,

674
00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:53,960
Speaker 3: Carl Dimitri, the coder, Guy Yarmou, the like cruise director,

675
00:35:54,440 --> 00:36:00,680
Speaker 3: Lady Paula Teres, the Indian Vulcan woman, is well as

676
00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:04,440
Speaker 3: a character who we've never seen before, Nelson, who Dimitri

677
00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:08,719
Speaker 3: accuses of being one of the pirates, and Nelson is like, no, no, no,

678
00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:10,840
Speaker 3: I work in the engine room. Oh you think just

679
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:13,640
Speaker 3: because I'm black, I must be a pirate And that

680
00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:17,040
Speaker 3: keeps like getting called into question throughout the rest of

681
00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:20,640
Speaker 3: the movie. In any case, that first night on the island,

682
00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:24,880
Speaker 3: everyone is scared and hungry and thirsty, and there's animal

683
00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:29,400
Speaker 3: sounds coming from the nearby jungle. And then the next morning,

684
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:35,040
Speaker 3: a lifeboat with some supplies and a person inside washes ashore.

685
00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:40,040
Speaker 3: This person is Abigail played by Dolly de Leon. She's

686
00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:42,280
Speaker 3: one of the housekeeping crew who we've seen before.

687
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:44,880
Speaker 4: And it's like a metal lifeboat, right, it's a.

688
00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:47,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, it seems pretty sturdy. There's like a roof attached

689
00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:49,759
Speaker 3: to it. It's like enclosed.

690
00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:50,960
Speaker 2: It's like a little submarine.

691
00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:57,080
Speaker 3: Yeah. The others soon realize that Abigail is a great

692
00:36:57,280 --> 00:37:01,439
Speaker 3: asset for the island because she's the only one who

693
00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:04,280
Speaker 3: knows how to fish, who knows how to build a fire,

694
00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:09,239
Speaker 3: who knows how to prepare and cook her catch. Her

695
00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:12,279
Speaker 3: first catch is an octopus, and she takes half of

696
00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:15,560
Speaker 3: the octopus for herself, and then the rest is divided

697
00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:20,440
Speaker 3: between or I guess, among the seven other people. And

698
00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:22,760
Speaker 3: they're like, well, why do you get so much food Abigail,

699
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:25,080
Speaker 3: and she's like, well, I did all of the work.

700
00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:29,520
Speaker 3: And Paula, who was Abigail's boss on the yacht, is

701
00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:33,239
Speaker 3: acting like that power dynamic still exists between them, saying like,

702
00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:36,880
Speaker 3: you know, you're just a toilet manager, Abigail, and Abigail's like,

703
00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:40,600
Speaker 3: things have changed. I'm the captain now.

704
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:42,840
Speaker 2: I like that. You see, I kind of forgot that.

705
00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:46,520
Speaker 2: There's a moment where you see Abigail like earlier when

706
00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:50,040
Speaker 2: Paula is like, oh, Abigail, give us the water, give

707
00:37:50,120 --> 00:37:53,000
Speaker 2: us the chips, like you see a moment where Abigail

708
00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:56,360
Speaker 2: sort of defaults to the structure that did exist on

709
00:37:56,360 --> 00:37:58,319
Speaker 2: the boat because she keeps hesitating being like wait, I

710
00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:01,840
Speaker 2: don't and then by the next thing and she's like,

711
00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:04,200
Speaker 2: I don't have to do this, and then the movie

712
00:38:04,239 --> 00:38:06,560
Speaker 2: gets crazier and great, yeah, is it.

713
00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:09,160
Speaker 4: Right around here that they she asked them what skills

714
00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:12,680
Speaker 4: they have? Yeah, and so my favorite guy is let

715
00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:15,759
Speaker 4: go Burrick. She asked him and another guy, like, do

716
00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:19,480
Speaker 4: you guys have any skill useful skills? And he just goes, no, no,

717
00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:25,560
Speaker 4: that's his answer. So funny that someone would just say

718
00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:28,080
Speaker 4: that's do you have any survival skills? No?

719
00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:32,440
Speaker 3: No, no, Yeah, that's only Abigail. And so as the captain,

720
00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:35,880
Speaker 3: she decides who gets to sleep in the lifeboat with

721
00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:39,319
Speaker 3: her and like be safe from the animals lurking in

722
00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:43,120
Speaker 3: the forest. Yeah, So that night, Abigail, Paula, and Yeah

723
00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:45,879
Speaker 3: Yah sleep inside the lifeboat while the others are left

724
00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:48,719
Speaker 3: to tend to the fire and keep it going so

725
00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:52,000
Speaker 3: that Abigail doesn't have to put all the work into

726
00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:55,080
Speaker 3: building a new fire the next day. But those people,

727
00:38:55,640 --> 00:38:59,799
Speaker 3: primarily Carl and Nelson, fall asleep and the fire goes

728
00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:00,480
Speaker 3: out and.

729
00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:01,840
Speaker 2: They steal pretzel sticks.

730
00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:06,120
Speaker 3: They steal pretzel sticks and then lie about stealing them,

731
00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:09,400
Speaker 3: and Abigail is not happy about this, and so she

732
00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:13,319
Speaker 3: punishes them by not feeding them that day. But then

733
00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:16,279
Speaker 3: she's like, well, Carl, because you didn't eat anything, now

734
00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:18,440
Speaker 3: you can sleep in the lifeboat with me.

735
00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:19,200
Speaker 4: Yeah.

736
00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:22,160
Speaker 2: I also like that. She starts by that. Abigail starts

737
00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:23,959
Speaker 2: by being like, Okay, all of the women are going

738
00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:27,560
Speaker 2: to be in like the safest place. But then when

739
00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:29,560
Speaker 2: that like does not, I don't know, it's like it

740
00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:32,000
Speaker 2: starts with that, but then she's like, wait a second,

741
00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:34,920
Speaker 2: this actually is not working because the women inside the

742
00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:38,319
Speaker 2: boat are still trying to enforce the class dynamic. So

743
00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:40,919
Speaker 2: she's like, okay, well let's switch it again. And it's

744
00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:44,080
Speaker 2: just like interesting watching her navigate, like what is the

745
00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:47,640
Speaker 2: smartest way to do this and survive and like maintain power.

746
00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:50,920
Speaker 3: She realizes she has all the power on this island

747
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:53,759
Speaker 3: and she does not hesitate to exert it.

748
00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:55,359
Speaker 4: Very quickly realizes it.

749
00:39:57,000 --> 00:40:00,920
Speaker 3: And so Yaya after Abigail is like, Karo, come sleep

750
00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:03,439
Speaker 3: with me. Yah Ya is like, well, she probably wants

751
00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:05,600
Speaker 3: to have sex with you, but you can't do it.

752
00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:11,160
Speaker 3: But sure enough, Carl and Abigail start a sexual relationship.

753
00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:15,439
Speaker 3: The dynamic being Abigail is using her power to gain

754
00:40:15,520 --> 00:40:20,480
Speaker 3: access to this young attractive man, which you know, upsets

755
00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:23,560
Speaker 3: ya Yah and upsets everyone else on the island because

756
00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:26,480
Speaker 3: they're like, well, we want pretzel sticks too, and she's

757
00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:30,279
Speaker 3: like no, no, I control whetzel sticks.

758
00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:33,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think there's a there's a moment where some

759
00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:35,040
Speaker 4: of the uglier guys try to get the same deal

760
00:40:35,520 --> 00:40:36,000
Speaker 4: well because.

761
00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:38,920
Speaker 3: They're they're trying to trade their like expensive watches as

762
00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:42,560
Speaker 3: if that has any currency or any value on the island,

763
00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:44,359
Speaker 3: and she's like, what the fuck am I gonna do

764
00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:46,839
Speaker 3: with your watch right now? I don't need that shit.

765
00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:50,120
Speaker 3: Then there's a brutal scene where they kill a donkey

766
00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:52,240
Speaker 3: I hate.

767
00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:55,759
Speaker 2: It, which is weird foreshadowing unfortunately to like the last

768
00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:56,600
Speaker 2: shot of the movie.

769
00:40:57,080 --> 00:40:57,319
Speaker 3: True.

770
00:40:57,480 --> 00:40:59,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, because they're like scared, they don't know what it is.

771
00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:01,319
Speaker 4: They think it's a and it turns out that it's

772
00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:01,960
Speaker 4: just a donkey.

773
00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:04,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, it just takes a really long time to die.

774
00:41:05,040 --> 00:41:08,040
Speaker 2: It's like and then, I mean I thought that was

775
00:41:08,120 --> 00:41:09,480
Speaker 2: kind of funny. It is like, yeah, it's like the

776
00:41:09,560 --> 00:41:12,879
Speaker 2: Koder guy who's like, okay, I'm going to like hyper mask,

777
00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:15,240
Speaker 2: like I'm gonna kill the donkey, and then it takes

778
00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:17,080
Speaker 2: so long and he gets so upset that he's like

779
00:41:17,120 --> 00:41:19,320
Speaker 2: weeping by the end. It needs to be comforted.

780
00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:24,200
Speaker 3: Yes, it's easy, and we're like, what if that was

781
00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:25,560
Speaker 3: donkey from Shrek?

782
00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:26,520
Speaker 2: Damn?

783
00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:28,160
Speaker 3: You know makes you think.

784
00:41:28,080 --> 00:41:32,400
Speaker 2: Makes you think it's one grieving dragon. I guess it's.

785
00:41:32,440 --> 00:41:35,240
Speaker 4: An unnecessarily violent rewrite on Shrek.

786
00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:37,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I.

787
00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:40,320
Speaker 4: Don't remember where it falls. Where is the scene where

788
00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:44,440
Speaker 4: I always call him as Lotco but the Dmitri? What

789
00:41:44,600 --> 00:41:45,920
Speaker 4: is the scene where Dimitri?

790
00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:49,520
Speaker 3: Are you referring to the moment where his dead wife

791
00:41:49,760 --> 00:41:53,080
Speaker 3: washes ashore and he takes off all of her expensive jewelry.

792
00:41:53,080 --> 00:41:56,960
Speaker 4: It is so darkly funny. It's one of the darkest

793
00:41:57,040 --> 00:42:01,160
Speaker 4: funniest moments I've ever seen, where he's weeping and holding

794
00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:06,800
Speaker 4: the pale dead body of his drowned wife and crying

795
00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:11,040
Speaker 4: and caressing, and then stops and takes off the very

796
00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:12,600
Speaker 4: expensive necklace to.

797
00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:19,919
Speaker 2: Keep like putting on a show for himself. Basically, yeah,

798
00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:21,479
Speaker 2: I think it's right around here.

799
00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:25,360
Speaker 3: It may have already happened, but yeah, that takes place,

800
00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:29,960
Speaker 3: and it's very funny. Then it seems like it's been

801
00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:34,520
Speaker 3: a couple weeks since they've been on the island, and

802
00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:37,360
Speaker 3: Yai y'all wants to go on a hike over the

803
00:42:37,360 --> 00:42:41,360
Speaker 3: mountain to see if she can find anything, and Abigail

804
00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:45,000
Speaker 3: offers to go with her. There's also a quick scene

805
00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:48,200
Speaker 3: where seems like a local who lives on the island

806
00:42:48,600 --> 00:42:51,520
Speaker 3: shows up trying to like sell his wares, but the

807
00:42:51,560 --> 00:42:55,000
Speaker 3: only one around is Teres, who, because of her very

808
00:42:55,040 --> 00:42:58,600
Speaker 3: limited speech, is not able to communicate what the situation is.

809
00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:02,040
Speaker 3: So he like gets free out and leaves. So like

810
00:43:02,080 --> 00:43:04,800
Speaker 3: they had a chance to be saved, but it didn't

811
00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:09,359
Speaker 3: work out. So back on the hike, Yaya discovers an

812
00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:12,640
Speaker 3: elevator to a resort. So it turns out there's this

813
00:43:12,760 --> 00:43:15,240
Speaker 3: luxury resort that's been on this island the whole time,

814
00:43:16,160 --> 00:43:18,240
Speaker 3: and they find it, and so it seems like they're saved.

815
00:43:18,840 --> 00:43:21,440
Speaker 3: And then the end is a bit ambiguous. I will

816
00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:25,520
Speaker 3: share my interpretation of events, curious to hear what other

817
00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:29,160
Speaker 3: people thought about it. But so here's what I felt

818
00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:31,600
Speaker 3: was going on. They find the elevator, it seems like

819
00:43:31,640 --> 00:43:34,520
Speaker 3: they'll be able to get off the island and continue

820
00:43:34,520 --> 00:43:38,520
Speaker 3: on with their lives. Abigail, presumably not wanting to give

821
00:43:38,680 --> 00:43:43,160
Speaker 3: up the power she has accumulated on the island, picks

822
00:43:43,239 --> 00:43:46,920
Speaker 3: up a large rock, intending to smash it over Yaya's

823
00:43:46,960 --> 00:43:50,319
Speaker 3: head to kill her donkey style what they did with

824
00:43:50,320 --> 00:43:53,680
Speaker 3: the donkey moments earlier. But before she does this, Yahya

825
00:43:53,960 --> 00:43:56,600
Speaker 3: is like, by the way, I can try to help you,

826
00:43:56,600 --> 00:43:58,239
Speaker 3: you know, maybe you can come and work for me,

827
00:43:58,360 --> 00:44:02,879
Speaker 3: be my assistant, which makes Abigail hesitate, and we don't

828
00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:07,680
Speaker 3: see her actually like smash the rock on Yaya's head

829
00:44:07,760 --> 00:44:11,120
Speaker 3: or anything, but we do cut to Carl running through

830
00:44:11,160 --> 00:44:14,279
Speaker 3: the forest panicking. Seems like he's going in the same

831
00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:18,120
Speaker 3: direction we saw Abigail and yah Ya go, maybe because

832
00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:21,839
Speaker 3: he heard yah Ya cry for help. We're not sure.

833
00:44:21,880 --> 00:44:25,480
Speaker 3: It's very ambiguous again, but I feel as though Abigail

834
00:44:25,520 --> 00:44:29,520
Speaker 3: did end up killing ya Ya because she was like,

835
00:44:29,560 --> 00:44:32,880
Speaker 3: why would I want to be an assistant to this

836
00:44:33,040 --> 00:44:36,680
Speaker 3: like rich woman when I could be captain of the

837
00:44:36,719 --> 00:44:38,760
Speaker 3: island right the end.

838
00:44:38,840 --> 00:44:43,520
Speaker 2: And I could just ration brattel sticks forever. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

839
00:44:43,360 --> 00:44:45,960
Speaker 4: It looks like that's what happens. It looks like that

840
00:44:46,040 --> 00:44:48,200
Speaker 4: was that's what happens, or at least there was an

841
00:44:48,239 --> 00:44:50,080
Speaker 4: attempt to do that in the movie ends.

842
00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:52,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, let's take a quick break and then we'll

843
00:44:52,320 --> 00:45:03,719
Speaker 3: come back to discuss, and.

844
00:45:03,640 --> 00:45:06,480
Speaker 2: We're back Where to begin? Where to begin?

845
00:45:07,200 --> 00:45:12,200
Speaker 4: What a dark film? Hilarious and ominous and it's interesting

846
00:45:12,320 --> 00:45:15,839
Speaker 4: how funny it is for how ominous and dark it

847
00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:19,600
Speaker 4: is like pessimistic about human ethics.

848
00:45:20,239 --> 00:45:20,479
Speaker 3: Right.

849
00:45:20,840 --> 00:45:25,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, there's not really a great good character in the movie.

850
00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:26,799
Speaker 4: It's more as like.

851
00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:29,520
Speaker 2: Doing the right thing, and it definitely does sort of

852
00:45:29,600 --> 00:45:34,680
Speaker 2: subscribe to like the absolute power her ups absolutely kind

853
00:45:34,760 --> 00:45:38,919
Speaker 2: of idea that like there's never a possibility that there's

854
00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:44,120
Speaker 2: going to be shared wealth. But when you're with Abigail's character,

855
00:45:44,200 --> 00:45:46,520
Speaker 2: you're like, well, she'sn't fucking ohe them anything, Like it

856
00:45:46,560 --> 00:45:49,560
Speaker 2: is cathartic seeing her treat them like shit. One of

857
00:45:49,600 --> 00:45:52,040
Speaker 2: the things I really liked about this movie, especially, I know,

858
00:45:52,080 --> 00:45:53,360
Speaker 2: like you could paregre it to the others, but it

859
00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:56,799
Speaker 2: really did like bug me in twenty twenty two was that, like,

860
00:45:56,840 --> 00:45:59,360
Speaker 2: I think a lot of movies that are like talking

861
00:45:59,400 --> 00:46:01,640
Speaker 2: about class or even like trying to talk about class

862
00:46:01,960 --> 00:46:04,520
Speaker 2: present the like halves and the havelves not in a

863
00:46:04,680 --> 00:46:10,720
Speaker 2: very like binary way, and there's so many like shades

864
00:46:10,760 --> 00:46:13,240
Speaker 2: of gray, and like the way that this like boat

865
00:46:13,440 --> 00:46:16,880
Speaker 2: is presented where you have obviously the uber wealthy, but

866
00:46:16,960 --> 00:46:19,719
Speaker 2: there's shades of gray to the uber wealthy in the

867
00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:24,240
Speaker 2: fact that it's like Yaya and Carl are wealthy for now,

868
00:46:24,280 --> 00:46:26,520
Speaker 2: but they're also sort of living on borrowed time, and

869
00:46:26,560 --> 00:46:29,120
Speaker 2: it's implied that they'll only be valuable for as long

870
00:46:29,120 --> 00:46:30,279
Speaker 2: as they're beautiful.

871
00:46:30,520 --> 00:46:33,800
Speaker 4: They're aware of that, Yes, yeah, there's a shelf life,

872
00:46:34,000 --> 00:46:34,560
Speaker 4: and they're not.

873
00:46:34,520 --> 00:46:37,279
Speaker 3: As wealthy as the people who paid their way onto

874
00:46:37,320 --> 00:46:40,040
Speaker 3: the cruise because they got the cruise for free, so

875
00:46:40,120 --> 00:46:44,080
Speaker 3: we can assume, you know, some influencers do make millions

876
00:46:44,080 --> 00:46:47,640
Speaker 3: of dollars and end up being wealthy, but they're not

877
00:46:47,880 --> 00:46:52,720
Speaker 3: the same level of like I've exploited people and made

878
00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:57,560
Speaker 3: my wealth off of grenades, grenades and land mines. So

879
00:46:57,640 --> 00:46:59,760
Speaker 3: there's even a hierarchy there.

880
00:47:00,040 --> 00:47:03,319
Speaker 2: And that's like part of what the first section addresses

881
00:47:03,400 --> 00:47:06,719
Speaker 2: is that they're both very conscious of like this possibly

882
00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:10,719
Speaker 2: being temporary and that they'll have to like scrabble to

883
00:47:10,840 --> 00:47:13,960
Speaker 2: maintain it. And then in like the middle section, you

884
00:47:14,120 --> 00:47:17,680
Speaker 2: have the like mostly white service crew on the boat

885
00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:20,520
Speaker 2: and they're sort of like aspiring to be of a

886
00:47:20,600 --> 00:47:25,040
Speaker 2: higher class and completely ignoring the lowest class on the ship,

887
00:47:25,080 --> 00:47:30,120
Speaker 2: where it's like implied that there's no chance of moving classes.

888
00:47:30,680 --> 00:47:33,920
Speaker 2: It's mostly people of color and like scurious what you

889
00:47:33,920 --> 00:47:35,680
Speaker 2: guys said, because the lowest class. In the movie, we

890
00:47:35,719 --> 00:47:39,440
Speaker 2: do see Abigail a number of times, but we it's intentional,

891
00:47:39,440 --> 00:47:42,480
Speaker 2: but like, we don't get to know anybody until we

892
00:47:42,560 --> 00:47:44,600
Speaker 2: get to the island. We get to know a lot

893
00:47:44,600 --> 00:47:47,200
Speaker 2: of people in the highest in the middle class in

894
00:47:47,239 --> 00:47:49,040
Speaker 2: like the first two acts of the movie, but it's

895
00:47:49,040 --> 00:47:50,759
Speaker 2: not really until we get to the island that we

896
00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:54,759
Speaker 2: get to know Abigail with any sort of like nuance.

897
00:47:55,160 --> 00:47:59,600
Speaker 4: I saw the whole thing as a filmmaker roasting and

898
00:47:59,640 --> 00:48:04,879
Speaker 4: satder rising a well off, important audience, and I think

899
00:48:04,960 --> 00:48:07,480
Speaker 4: it's made. It's made for all of us to laugh

900
00:48:07,520 --> 00:48:10,879
Speaker 4: at them, but it's also made. It's made for them

901
00:48:10,920 --> 00:48:14,359
Speaker 4: to be like, look at you idiots, right. I think

902
00:48:14,400 --> 00:48:17,040
Speaker 4: there's a there's a heavy metaphor allegory you could put

903
00:48:17,080 --> 00:48:19,360
Speaker 4: onto it, which is that the boat itself is like

904
00:48:19,400 --> 00:48:20,279
Speaker 4: the planet that we're on.

905
00:48:20,800 --> 00:48:22,000
Speaker 3: It's a microcosm.

906
00:48:22,680 --> 00:48:25,839
Speaker 4: Yes, this is a microcosm of our planet. And you know, hey,

907
00:48:25,840 --> 00:48:30,440
Speaker 4: look at you, Look at you assholes. You're also mortal. Yeah,

908
00:48:30,760 --> 00:48:33,799
Speaker 4: you're bound to the same cycle of life that the

909
00:48:33,840 --> 00:48:36,759
Speaker 4: rest of us are. I think it's a very interesting

910
00:48:36,800 --> 00:48:42,160
Speaker 4: attack on the hyper wealthy. I think that the boat itself,

911
00:48:42,280 --> 00:48:47,400
Speaker 4: the yacht, makes a fantastic story vehicle, like no better

912
00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:52,120
Speaker 4: place to have a bunch of classes illustrated and the

913
00:48:53,400 --> 00:48:56,719
Speaker 4: hypocrisies and the struggles of the different social classes. And

914
00:48:56,760 --> 00:48:59,960
Speaker 4: also I do think it works as a an allegory

915
00:49:00,400 --> 00:49:02,840
Speaker 4: figure for the planet that we live on. M M.

916
00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:04,480
Speaker 2: The first time I saw in theaters, I was like,

917
00:49:04,520 --> 00:49:06,480
Speaker 2: I wish we got to know, you know, people from

918
00:49:06,480 --> 00:49:08,560
Speaker 2: the lowest class on the boat sooner. But it does

919
00:49:08,600 --> 00:49:12,200
Speaker 2: feel like it's almost like Rubert Ousland is very likely

920
00:49:12,320 --> 00:49:16,960
Speaker 2: trying to like prey on his viewers willingness to ignore

921
00:49:17,000 --> 00:49:21,200
Speaker 2: them and then have Abigail be a really prominent character

922
00:49:21,400 --> 00:49:24,600
Speaker 2: later in the movie because the way that society trains

923
00:49:24,600 --> 00:49:28,080
Speaker 2: you is to ignore people of the lowest station. And

924
00:49:29,200 --> 00:49:31,040
Speaker 2: I don't know, Yeah, Caitlyn, what was your take on that?

925
00:49:31,360 --> 00:49:33,400
Speaker 3: So the first time I saw the movie, I had

926
00:49:33,880 --> 00:49:36,680
Speaker 3: a slightly different reaction than I do now, which was like,

927
00:49:37,480 --> 00:49:40,040
Speaker 3: is this really the story we need to be telling that.

928
00:49:40,800 --> 00:49:45,240
Speaker 3: You know, this working class like toilet manager, like literal

929
00:49:45,320 --> 00:49:50,200
Speaker 3: shit cleaner, has a very undesirable job, gets access to

930
00:49:50,440 --> 00:49:55,040
Speaker 3: power because of her skills that none of these wealthy

931
00:49:55,040 --> 00:49:59,160
Speaker 3: class people have, and you know, you see her like

932
00:49:59,360 --> 00:50:04,920
Speaker 3: rise to and you're like, yes, go, But then she

933
00:50:05,640 --> 00:50:09,960
Speaker 3: basically installs a dictatorship on this island right then, and

934
00:50:10,000 --> 00:50:12,160
Speaker 3: you're like, oh, to the point where she's like dolling

935
00:50:12,160 --> 00:50:17,960
Speaker 3: out punishments to people, she's withholding resources, she is about

936
00:50:17,960 --> 00:50:21,799
Speaker 3: to murder someone exploiting sex, like right, She's like yeah,

937
00:50:21,840 --> 00:50:24,680
Speaker 3: she's exerting her power to gain access to the sexual

938
00:50:24,680 --> 00:50:27,800
Speaker 3: conquest and all this stuff. And I was like, well,

939
00:50:27,880 --> 00:50:29,560
Speaker 3: I don't know if that's the message we should be

940
00:50:29,600 --> 00:50:32,280
Speaker 3: sending out that, like a working class woman of color

941
00:50:32,960 --> 00:50:36,600
Speaker 3: is gonna be evil if given the opportunity, especially like

942
00:50:36,680 --> 00:50:41,719
Speaker 3: coming from a white cis man director. But then I

943
00:50:41,800 --> 00:50:44,160
Speaker 3: was like, well, I guess this is more a commentary

944
00:50:44,320 --> 00:50:48,919
Speaker 3: on like meritocracy and how it's actually not great and

945
00:50:49,000 --> 00:50:53,480
Speaker 3: how it's basically capitalism because it is still it's like

946
00:50:53,560 --> 00:50:58,400
Speaker 3: inherently ablest and still dependent on hierarchies and an imbalance

947
00:50:58,400 --> 00:51:01,040
Speaker 3: of power because like she's like, well, I have the skills,

948
00:51:01,200 --> 00:51:04,799
Speaker 3: so I deserve more. But it's like, well, also she's

949
00:51:04,840 --> 00:51:07,719
Speaker 3: fucking over all these rich people, and that is satisfying

950
00:51:07,760 --> 00:51:08,200
Speaker 3: to watch.

951
00:51:08,239 --> 00:51:12,720
Speaker 2: But it's like as a revenge story, it's very satisfying.

952
00:51:12,320 --> 00:51:15,080
Speaker 3: As a revenge story. Yes, So there's like all these

953
00:51:15,160 --> 00:51:17,040
Speaker 3: moving parts. There's all these things. I still don't know

954
00:51:17,120 --> 00:51:19,600
Speaker 3: quite what to make of the end. I have complicated

955
00:51:19,640 --> 00:51:22,280
Speaker 3: feelings about it. I think at the end of the day,

956
00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:28,200
Speaker 3: I appreciate it as a commentary on power corrupts those

957
00:51:28,239 --> 00:51:33,080
Speaker 3: who possess it, and that meritocracy is actually not a

958
00:51:33,120 --> 00:51:39,680
Speaker 3: good solution as a system of government. Right, So that's

959
00:51:39,719 --> 00:51:41,520
Speaker 3: where I'm landing.

960
00:51:42,320 --> 00:51:45,640
Speaker 4: I disagree with that, and I think that very similarly,

961
00:51:46,160 --> 00:51:51,480
Speaker 4: I think it's a playful warning from within the upper class,

962
00:51:52,120 --> 00:51:56,120
Speaker 4: the elite, hyper wealthy. I think it's a warning from

963
00:51:56,160 --> 00:52:00,680
Speaker 4: within that there is a fantastic reck and come up

964
00:52:00,719 --> 00:52:02,080
Speaker 4: and surround the corner.

965
00:52:03,040 --> 00:52:07,800
Speaker 3: That too, right, rich people are not afraid enough of

966
00:52:08,000 --> 00:52:08,800
Speaker 3: the working class.

967
00:52:08,960 --> 00:52:11,000
Speaker 2: That's the tricky part of all these movies is they're

968
00:52:11,040 --> 00:52:14,520
Speaker 2: all made by rich people, so it's like always gonna

969
00:52:14,520 --> 00:52:17,359
Speaker 2: be the paradox. I don't know, Yeah, kill I hear

970
00:52:17,400 --> 00:52:20,200
Speaker 2: what you're saying. And also realistically, if you're Reuben Auslind,

971
00:52:20,200 --> 00:52:22,240
Speaker 2: you're like, well, who's going to see this movie. Who's

972
00:52:22,239 --> 00:52:26,120
Speaker 2: this movie going to get to? Probably mostly middle class,

973
00:52:26,400 --> 00:52:30,000
Speaker 2: upper middle class and rich people. So like, I definitely

974
00:52:30,080 --> 00:52:32,759
Speaker 2: understand the criticisms of it. I like it more every

975
00:52:32,760 --> 00:52:35,160
Speaker 2: time I watch it though mm hmm, maybe I just

976
00:52:35,160 --> 00:52:37,919
Speaker 2: haven't read enough Marx, and by that I mean any

977
00:52:38,080 --> 00:52:41,360
Speaker 2: I haven't read any say like Force Mazure for me.

978
00:52:41,600 --> 00:52:43,759
Speaker 3: Well, one of my favorite moments of the movie is

979
00:52:43,920 --> 00:52:47,480
Speaker 3: you see the Dimitri character spouting all these Reagan quotes

980
00:52:47,520 --> 00:52:52,279
Speaker 3: and talking about how awesome capitalism and then and then

981
00:52:52,320 --> 00:52:56,040
Speaker 3: the second the tables have turned and he is no

982
00:52:56,120 --> 00:52:58,520
Speaker 3: longer in a position of wealth and power and he

983
00:52:58,600 --> 00:53:02,680
Speaker 3: is at the mercy of someone else's power. He says

984
00:53:02,760 --> 00:53:05,879
Speaker 3: the you know, from each according to ability, to each

985
00:53:05,920 --> 00:53:07,319
Speaker 3: according to need in that.

986
00:53:07,520 --> 00:53:09,479
Speaker 4: Because he would have grown up under that and would

987
00:53:09,480 --> 00:53:10,680
Speaker 4: have remembered it of course.

988
00:53:11,239 --> 00:53:11,439
Speaker 1: Right.

989
00:53:11,719 --> 00:53:13,880
Speaker 2: That's like the part of the movie that I've like,

990
00:53:14,080 --> 00:53:17,120
Speaker 2: there's like no doubt that it has done super well.

991
00:53:17,200 --> 00:53:19,879
Speaker 2: Is like watching the rich people squirm and have their

992
00:53:19,920 --> 00:53:22,880
Speaker 2: ideology adjust in real time to like the rich people

993
00:53:22,920 --> 00:53:25,920
Speaker 2: become like, well, no, we should do socialism now that

994
00:53:26,000 --> 00:53:28,160
Speaker 2: we have nothing to contribute.

995
00:53:27,640 --> 00:53:31,480
Speaker 3: Now that it would benefit us exactly, yes, right, because like,

996
00:53:31,560 --> 00:53:36,600
Speaker 3: on one hand, it's commentary about like the undervaluing of labor,

997
00:53:36,800 --> 00:53:41,200
Speaker 3: especially what is considered to be quote unquote low skill labor.

998
00:53:41,880 --> 00:53:45,279
Speaker 3: But it's that type of labor which only Abigail knows

999
00:53:45,320 --> 00:53:49,040
Speaker 3: how to do, which allows them to survive because she's

1000
00:53:49,320 --> 00:53:54,120
Speaker 3: feeding them, and like the currency now is food, but

1001
00:53:54,239 --> 00:53:59,759
Speaker 3: also beauty, and that's something that the director discussed as

1002
00:53:59,800 --> 00:54:03,920
Speaker 3: being like the primary theme he was interested in exploring

1003
00:54:04,000 --> 00:54:06,680
Speaker 3: this movie. He wanted to talk about beauty as currency,

1004
00:54:06,840 --> 00:54:10,160
Speaker 3: which is why there's so much focus on the model

1005
00:54:10,239 --> 00:54:16,280
Speaker 3: couple at the beginning, and how you can use beauty

1006
00:54:16,400 --> 00:54:20,719
Speaker 3: if you have it as a means for upward mobility,

1007
00:54:21,239 --> 00:54:24,040
Speaker 3: because that's how this couple ends up on this cruise

1008
00:54:24,040 --> 00:54:27,719
Speaker 3: that they probably wouldn't have been otherwise able to afford.

1009
00:54:28,080 --> 00:54:31,919
Speaker 4: Even in the post apocalyptic tables turned world.

1010
00:54:31,920 --> 00:54:35,439
Speaker 2: Right, it's like still currency, right, because we have this

1011
00:54:36,520 --> 00:54:41,120
Speaker 2: situation where Abigail, now that she is this dictator, she

1012
00:54:41,320 --> 00:54:44,919
Speaker 2: uses her power to gain sexual favors from the most

1013
00:54:44,960 --> 00:54:50,719
Speaker 2: attractive man on the island, and it's something that we

1014
00:54:50,760 --> 00:54:54,080
Speaker 2: see men in power do all.

1015
00:54:54,120 --> 00:54:56,600
Speaker 3: The time, and so we get this kind of gender

1016
00:54:56,680 --> 00:55:00,439
Speaker 3: role reversal here. Doesn't make it any better, It still

1017
00:55:00,440 --> 00:55:03,560
Speaker 3: makes it disgusting to, you know, exploit your power for

1018
00:55:04,520 --> 00:55:08,359
Speaker 3: any kind of gain and exploitation. But it's just really

1019
00:55:08,360 --> 00:55:11,000
Speaker 3: interesting to see play out.

1020
00:55:11,360 --> 00:55:13,319
Speaker 2: And I like that part of the function of that

1021
00:55:13,400 --> 00:55:18,000
Speaker 2: first part is that it's not like the the hot

1022
00:55:18,040 --> 00:55:22,400
Speaker 2: people are presented as like infallible, like there, it's also

1023
00:55:22,600 --> 00:55:28,000
Speaker 2: clear that what their power is is potentially temporary and

1024
00:55:28,080 --> 00:55:30,120
Speaker 2: like how I mean whatever I guess, Like The Substance

1025
00:55:30,160 --> 00:55:32,480
Speaker 2: is the most recent movie that illustrates that point of like,

1026
00:55:32,920 --> 00:55:36,239
Speaker 2: if you are in a position where your value is

1027
00:55:36,280 --> 00:55:41,080
Speaker 2: connected to how traditionally beautiful you're perceived to be, then

1028
00:55:41,640 --> 00:55:44,880
Speaker 2: things are always going to change. And like that conversation

1029
00:55:44,960 --> 00:55:48,520
Speaker 2: towards the beginning with Yahya and Carl and Yaya being like, well,

1030
00:55:48,560 --> 00:55:50,280
Speaker 2: what if I got pregnant, Like, what would happen?

1031
00:55:50,320 --> 00:55:50,480
Speaker 4: Then?

1032
00:55:50,560 --> 00:55:54,200
Speaker 2: If my value shifted in the public eye? How would

1033
00:55:54,200 --> 00:55:57,600
Speaker 2: that affect me? And what would I do? And I mean,

1034
00:55:57,600 --> 00:55:59,960
Speaker 2: obviously she doesn't get pregnant, but you see, you see

1035
00:56:00,120 --> 00:56:03,000
Speaker 2: her value shift and you see his value shift. As

1036
00:56:03,040 --> 00:56:04,239
Speaker 2: the movie goes.

1037
00:56:04,000 --> 00:56:07,919
Speaker 3: On, there's a line from Yaya toward the end where

1038
00:56:07,920 --> 00:56:11,120
Speaker 3: she and Abigail are on the hike and she's like,

1039
00:56:11,360 --> 00:56:14,440
Speaker 3: I'm so impressed by what you've done here, Abigail. You've

1040
00:56:14,480 --> 00:56:18,360
Speaker 3: managed to run a fucking matriarchy here, and you've domesticated

1041
00:56:18,400 --> 00:56:22,400
Speaker 3: all the old alpha males and on the surface, like

1042
00:56:22,440 --> 00:56:26,080
Speaker 3: a very surface level, Yeah, that's true. It's a you know,

1043
00:56:26,120 --> 00:56:28,799
Speaker 3: a woman is the leader of this group. She has

1044
00:56:28,880 --> 00:56:32,239
Speaker 3: these other women like helping her and defending her, because

1045
00:56:32,239 --> 00:56:35,480
Speaker 3: there's that scene where shortly after she has declared herself

1046
00:56:35,560 --> 00:56:40,160
Speaker 3: the captain and Karl is protesting and he's pointing at

1047
00:56:40,160 --> 00:56:42,680
Speaker 3: her and he's using this aggressive body language and he's

1048
00:56:42,760 --> 00:56:44,440
Speaker 3: just like, well, I don't see how this is fair,

1049
00:56:45,360 --> 00:56:49,680
Speaker 3: and his girlfriend Yahya turns on him, is defending Abigail,

1050
00:56:49,760 --> 00:56:53,520
Speaker 3: being like, don't have that aggressive posture. You're lying and

1051
00:56:53,560 --> 00:56:56,880
Speaker 3: you're stealing and da da da. So like on the surface,

1052
00:56:56,920 --> 00:57:00,879
Speaker 3: it seems like, yes, it's this group of women led

1053
00:57:00,960 --> 00:57:05,360
Speaker 3: by a woman who has taken charge. And again, like

1054
00:57:05,400 --> 00:57:08,360
Speaker 3: on a very surface level, that's satisfying to see, especially

1055
00:57:08,400 --> 00:57:12,280
Speaker 3: as like a woman of color rising through the ranks

1056
00:57:12,280 --> 00:57:17,800
Speaker 3: by circumstance to become the leader of these formerly rich people.

1057
00:57:18,000 --> 00:57:22,360
Speaker 3: But again it's still if you like, peel away the

1058
00:57:22,480 --> 00:57:28,400
Speaker 3: layers of the Shrekkian onion, who if you are. Again,

1059
00:57:28,480 --> 00:57:34,000
Speaker 3: she's the leader only because she feels entitled to these things,

1060
00:57:34,040 --> 00:57:36,520
Speaker 3: and it's complicated.

1061
00:57:37,000 --> 00:57:38,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that's part of why I feel like

1062
00:57:38,800 --> 00:57:41,360
Speaker 2: Yaya is like such a tricky character to talk about

1063
00:57:41,400 --> 00:57:43,680
Speaker 2: because I guess, yeah, I'd about to be like this

1064
00:57:44,400 --> 00:57:48,320
Speaker 2: Swedish guy had something interesting to say about intersectional feminism,

1065
00:57:48,600 --> 00:57:52,880
Speaker 2: but hear me out. I do think Ruben Auslin is

1066
00:57:52,920 --> 00:57:55,960
Speaker 2: trying to say so many things and address so many

1067
00:57:56,040 --> 00:57:59,600
Speaker 2: dynamics in this movie that it's not humanly possible really

1068
00:57:59,680 --> 00:58:03,080
Speaker 2: for all of them to come together in a cohesive way.

1069
00:58:03,200 --> 00:58:05,320
Speaker 2: They don't necessarily have to. It's just like it's there's

1070
00:58:05,360 --> 00:58:08,560
Speaker 2: so much. But I do think it's interesting with Yaya,

1071
00:58:08,720 --> 00:58:12,240
Speaker 2: where you know, Abigail originally, I think she like appeals

1072
00:58:12,280 --> 00:58:15,800
Speaker 2: to the women and the women one of whom, especially

1073
00:58:16,040 --> 00:58:20,200
Speaker 2: like Paula, was originally condescending to her, and only kind

1074
00:58:20,240 --> 00:58:22,880
Speaker 2: of joins as a subordinate because it's a way to survive,

1075
00:58:23,040 --> 00:58:25,720
Speaker 2: not because it's actually a showing of mutual respect. We

1076
00:58:25,800 --> 00:58:29,200
Speaker 2: know that Paula doesn't respect Abigail for sure, and so

1077
00:58:29,400 --> 00:58:32,640
Speaker 2: it's like interesting watching the like sub class dynamic between

1078
00:58:32,680 --> 00:58:35,040
Speaker 2: women because I feel like sometimes it's just suggested that,

1079
00:58:35,600 --> 00:58:39,400
Speaker 2: you know, like everyone of one gender will all come

1080
00:58:39,440 --> 00:58:42,120
Speaker 2: together to overthrow blah blah blah blah blah, and it's

1081
00:58:42,120 --> 00:58:44,840
Speaker 2: like a nice idea, but there are sub dynamics obviously,

1082
00:58:44,920 --> 00:58:48,600
Speaker 2: and you have three women from three different classes, and

1083
00:58:48,680 --> 00:58:51,480
Speaker 2: so of course it doesn't you know, that line from

1084
00:58:51,560 --> 00:58:54,440
Speaker 2: Yaya at the end sort of rings hollow. And then

1085
00:58:54,520 --> 00:58:57,840
Speaker 2: once there's like the promise of the natural quote unquote

1086
00:58:57,960 --> 00:59:02,240
Speaker 2: order being restored, Yaya immediately becomes kind of condescending to

1087
00:59:02,240 --> 00:59:04,480
Speaker 2: Abigail again and is like, you should work for me,

1088
00:59:05,320 --> 00:59:08,840
Speaker 2: when ten minutes ago, Yah, y'all worked for her, right?

1089
00:59:10,440 --> 00:59:12,560
Speaker 3: I mean, I think, and this is something we talk

1090
00:59:12,600 --> 00:59:18,320
Speaker 3: about a lot, but the tendency to assume that everyone

1091
00:59:18,480 --> 00:59:22,040
Speaker 3: in a particular group is a monolith, that oh, women

1092
00:59:22,160 --> 00:59:26,440
Speaker 3: will show solidarity for other women, or all women of

1093
00:59:26,520 --> 00:59:30,680
Speaker 3: color will handle things the same way because of their experience,

1094
00:59:31,480 --> 00:59:33,920
Speaker 3: and we see time and time again that that is

1095
00:59:33,960 --> 00:59:34,800
Speaker 3: not true.

1096
00:59:34,840 --> 00:59:37,760
Speaker 2: Women of all like classes or whatever exactly.

1097
00:59:37,400 --> 00:59:41,000
Speaker 3: Like it take any you know, classification of people. There's

1098
00:59:41,000 --> 00:59:44,840
Speaker 3: so many examples to the contrary of that, and I

1099
00:59:44,840 --> 00:59:49,120
Speaker 3: think this movie like shows an interesting example of that

1100
00:59:49,200 --> 00:59:53,480
Speaker 3: with the Abigail character and her behavior. But I don't know,

1101
00:59:53,800 --> 00:59:57,120
Speaker 3: I'm just like, was this guy the right person to

1102
00:59:57,280 --> 01:00:00,040
Speaker 3: make that claim? I'm not sure this guy being the

1103
01:00:00,080 --> 01:00:02,439
Speaker 3: writer director, I don't know.

1104
01:00:02,880 --> 01:00:05,120
Speaker 4: I think there's a pessimism at the heart of the movie,

1105
01:00:05,200 --> 01:00:08,760
Speaker 4: which is reflected in the title Triangle of Sadness. And

1106
01:00:08,840 --> 01:00:11,480
Speaker 4: I think you know, and you can look at it

1107
01:00:11,520 --> 01:00:13,960
Speaker 4: like three acts that are tied together, where it's sort

1108
01:00:13,960 --> 01:00:17,760
Speaker 4: of like a cycle that keeps happening, or you could

1109
01:00:17,800 --> 01:00:24,040
Speaker 4: look at it as it's a comedic mirror of suffering,

1110
01:00:24,320 --> 01:00:27,840
Speaker 4: that people keep repeating a pattern of the same suffering

1111
01:00:27,960 --> 01:00:30,200
Speaker 4: upon each other and different in these groups, in these

1112
01:00:30,240 --> 01:00:34,920
Speaker 4: class groups, and that there's like injustice and a reaction

1113
01:00:35,080 --> 01:00:38,440
Speaker 4: to it that's also imbalanced, and then it goes back

1114
01:00:38,480 --> 01:00:41,880
Speaker 4: to a status quo and that it repeats and repeats

1115
01:00:41,880 --> 01:00:44,040
Speaker 4: and repeats, and that we're basically it looks to me

1116
01:00:44,120 --> 01:00:47,760
Speaker 4: like we're locked in a triangle of sadness. Wow, Like

1117
01:00:48,160 --> 01:00:51,160
Speaker 4: as much as possible, he's showing a mirror of like, well,

1118
01:00:51,240 --> 01:00:53,919
Speaker 4: this is how it is. Even people who are trying

1119
01:00:53,920 --> 01:00:56,200
Speaker 4: to make it better are making it worse.

1120
01:00:57,040 --> 01:01:00,760
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, this is like Ruben awesome kind of presenting

1121
01:01:01,120 --> 01:01:04,600
Speaker 2: his worldview kind of because it doesn't I mean, the

1122
01:01:04,680 --> 01:01:08,160
Speaker 2: movie isn't going to give us like clean answers because

1123
01:01:08,680 --> 01:01:13,080
Speaker 2: Ruben Auslin does not have the solution to society. I

1124
01:01:13,080 --> 01:01:15,240
Speaker 2: don't know if like this movie presents a lot of questions,

1125
01:01:15,520 --> 01:01:18,320
Speaker 2: it doesn't really hit answers, but that makes sense. I

1126
01:01:18,400 --> 01:01:23,160
Speaker 2: kind of like the ending for that reason, Where would

1127
01:01:23,200 --> 01:01:27,600
Speaker 2: it be cathartic? I guess to see Abigail land the

1128
01:01:27,680 --> 01:01:30,080
Speaker 2: rock on Yaya's head, even if you like Yaya a

1129
01:01:30,080 --> 01:01:34,760
Speaker 2: little bit, sure like, but it makes sense that Abigail

1130
01:01:35,000 --> 01:01:38,360
Speaker 2: is because it's still a tragic ending on a long

1131
01:01:38,480 --> 01:01:43,360
Speaker 2: enough timeline. Even if Abigail does do that, she's buying time.

1132
01:01:44,120 --> 01:01:48,120
Speaker 2: But their system is not sustainable, you know, Abigail cannot

1133
01:01:48,160 --> 01:01:51,680
Speaker 2: sustain this group of people forever. Eventually they're gonna have

1134
01:01:51,760 --> 01:01:54,720
Speaker 2: to go to the resort, or eventually someone's gonna find

1135
01:01:54,720 --> 01:01:58,200
Speaker 2: the resort because we and we know that because someone

1136
01:01:58,240 --> 01:02:00,959
Speaker 2: from the resort has already found them. So Abigail could

1137
01:02:00,960 --> 01:02:04,440
Speaker 2: be by killing someone, you know, buying herself a couple

1138
01:02:04,480 --> 01:02:08,160
Speaker 2: of hours, right, and so like it is this brutal cycle.

1139
01:02:08,200 --> 01:02:10,760
Speaker 2: It's not like there's a happy ending, even by like

1140
01:02:11,080 --> 01:02:15,880
Speaker 2: Abigail's definition, and she seems to possibly know that.

1141
01:02:16,480 --> 01:02:20,040
Speaker 3: Right yeah, I mean, like flash forward to a few

1142
01:02:20,240 --> 01:02:22,800
Speaker 3: hours after the movie ends, It's like, okay, they have

1143
01:02:22,960 --> 01:02:28,080
Speaker 3: been discovered. She's arrested for murder, Abigail is for the

1144
01:02:28,160 --> 01:02:31,680
Speaker 3: murder of Yah Yah. Yeah, and she's even worse off

1145
01:02:31,840 --> 01:02:38,560
Speaker 3: than when she started as an incarcerated person. So it's

1146
01:02:38,600 --> 01:02:42,440
Speaker 3: such an interesting movie. I love all the the queries

1147
01:02:42,640 --> 01:02:43,600
Speaker 3: it poses.

1148
01:02:44,400 --> 01:02:49,120
Speaker 4: Like a good comedy, it raises more questions that it answers. Yeah,

1149
01:02:49,160 --> 01:02:52,640
Speaker 4: I mean it is something to be talked about or

1150
01:02:52,920 --> 01:02:58,040
Speaker 4: to inspire a conversation about large issues. I don't think

1151
01:02:58,080 --> 01:03:00,720
Speaker 4: that they're I'm kind of relieved there's not like a

1152
01:03:00,720 --> 01:03:05,160
Speaker 4: companion manifesto of like, how should we solve this strigle

1153
01:03:05,200 --> 01:03:06,040
Speaker 4: of sadness.

1154
01:03:06,560 --> 01:03:08,000
Speaker 2: As I was rewatching it, I was like, oh, that

1155
01:03:08,160 --> 01:03:11,120
Speaker 2: was like part of what was irritating about the other

1156
01:03:11,280 --> 01:03:14,479
Speaker 2: things in the genre. Whereas it's like there is some

1157
01:03:14,560 --> 01:03:19,360
Speaker 2: sort of like clean conclusion to it that it feels

1158
01:03:19,400 --> 01:03:23,720
Speaker 2: like this is this director's version of solving class inequality.

1159
01:03:23,760 --> 01:03:26,720
Speaker 2: And you're like, okay, like you know, it just always

1160
01:03:26,800 --> 01:03:28,880
Speaker 2: kind of doesn't really work.

1161
01:03:28,960 --> 01:03:31,800
Speaker 4: But yeah, it looks like the messages, it's gonna be

1162
01:03:32,000 --> 01:03:34,880
Speaker 4: really messy and ugly if you want to solve it.

1163
01:03:35,360 --> 01:03:40,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, right. I wanted to just mention Teres really

1164
01:03:40,080 --> 01:03:42,680
Speaker 2: quick because we get to know her the smallest bit.

1165
01:03:42,760 --> 01:03:44,600
Speaker 2: I mean, I think the characters we get to know

1166
01:03:45,200 --> 01:03:49,640
Speaker 2: least to survive are Nelson and Teres, and they're kind

1167
01:03:49,640 --> 01:03:52,680
Speaker 2: of paired off together at different points where it seems

1168
01:03:52,680 --> 01:03:54,680
Speaker 2: like they kind of forge your friendship. Yeah, I think

1169
01:03:54,680 --> 01:03:56,440
Speaker 2: it's interesting that we learn about Teres. We don't really

1170
01:03:56,520 --> 01:04:00,480
Speaker 2: learn about Nelson other than the fact that here in

1171
01:04:00,560 --> 01:04:03,360
Speaker 2: the engine room or worked in the engine room of

1172
01:04:03,400 --> 01:04:06,160
Speaker 2: the ship that blew up. But there is like one

1173
01:04:06,280 --> 01:04:09,560
Speaker 2: character sort of development about Therese where it's like a

1174
01:04:09,640 --> 01:04:12,640
Speaker 2: humanizing moment for her because we don't really know anything

1175
01:04:12,640 --> 01:04:16,120
Speaker 2: about her other than that she's rich and that she

1176
01:04:16,200 --> 01:04:19,960
Speaker 2: has this disability and that we learn that like she's

1177
01:04:20,160 --> 01:04:23,120
Speaker 2: like used sex to get a job before. But it's

1178
01:04:23,160 --> 01:04:26,280
Speaker 2: like this very like I don't know's I thought it

1179
01:04:26,360 --> 01:04:28,400
Speaker 2: like a weirdly sweet moment between the two of them

1180
01:04:28,400 --> 01:04:30,600
Speaker 2: where she yeah, yeah, like I liked.

1181
01:04:30,520 --> 01:04:32,439
Speaker 3: It, like goofing around about it.

1182
01:04:32,640 --> 01:04:34,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, I liked that moment. But otherwise, I mean, it

1183
01:04:34,880 --> 01:04:38,160
Speaker 2: feels like it does sort of go into this very

1184
01:04:38,400 --> 01:04:43,080
Speaker 2: like you're saying, James, like this really dark worldview that

1185
01:04:43,360 --> 01:04:47,960
Speaker 2: Ruben Oslin has where it's like her disability means that

1186
01:04:48,360 --> 01:04:53,040
Speaker 2: the able bodied characters frequently forget about her. And that

1187
01:04:53,360 --> 01:04:57,200
Speaker 2: she is like treated you know, inherently differently by the

1188
01:04:57,240 --> 01:05:01,280
Speaker 2: other characters, and we don't really get much more than that.

1189
01:05:01,320 --> 01:05:03,560
Speaker 2: I mean, I would be curious to hear what disabled

1190
01:05:03,600 --> 01:05:06,600
Speaker 2: people thought of that character. But yeah, I mean it

1191
01:05:06,640 --> 01:05:11,120
Speaker 2: felt like an acknowledgment that when these able bodied characters

1192
01:05:11,120 --> 01:05:14,960
Speaker 2: were put into an extreme situation, they you know, sort

1193
01:05:15,000 --> 01:05:17,240
Speaker 2: of treat Teres as a second class citizen.

1194
01:05:17,600 --> 01:05:22,160
Speaker 3: I mean, that's what happens in a meritocracy, right, right, Yeah,

1195
01:05:22,160 --> 01:05:25,240
Speaker 3: it just means that the two characters of the Survivors

1196
01:05:25,280 --> 01:05:29,560
Speaker 3: who we learn the least about are a black character

1197
01:05:30,040 --> 01:05:34,680
Speaker 3: and a disabled character. Yeah, and those optics aren't great.

1198
01:05:35,600 --> 01:05:38,920
Speaker 3: I I don't know, I just like have other stray

1199
01:05:39,000 --> 01:05:43,840
Speaker 3: thoughts about the movie, like the rich people's idea of

1200
01:05:43,920 --> 01:05:49,720
Speaker 3: what generosity is, because you have things like at the beginning,

1201
01:05:49,920 --> 01:05:52,720
Speaker 3: ya Ya saying I'm a very generous person. Ask any

1202
01:05:52,760 --> 01:05:55,320
Speaker 3: of my friends. I gave you that shirt, I took

1203
01:05:55,360 --> 01:05:58,080
Speaker 3: you to dinner, and then Carl retorts with like, well

1204
01:05:58,080 --> 01:06:00,520
Speaker 3: you got this shirt for free, and I was the

1205
01:06:00,520 --> 01:06:02,600
Speaker 3: one who ended up paying for dinner. So those are

1206
01:06:02,640 --> 01:06:07,000
Speaker 3: bad examples. So you have like Yah Yah's inflated sense

1207
01:06:07,040 --> 01:06:10,320
Speaker 3: of self in thinking she's so generous when actually she's

1208
01:06:10,600 --> 01:06:15,720
Speaker 3: probably not generous at all. You have Yarmo telling Yahya

1209
01:06:16,080 --> 01:06:19,520
Speaker 3: and Ludmilla, who we don't see very much in the movie,

1210
01:06:19,560 --> 01:06:25,040
Speaker 3: but it's Dimitri's like younger trophy girlfriend that he tells

1211
01:06:25,080 --> 01:06:27,280
Speaker 3: the two of them, Oh, you're so generous for like

1212
01:06:28,120 --> 01:06:31,280
Speaker 3: taking a picture with me. I'm gonna buy you both Rolexes,

1213
01:06:31,720 --> 01:06:36,400
Speaker 3: and it's you know, he thinks they're generous because they

1214
01:06:36,440 --> 01:06:41,280
Speaker 3: paid attention to him, a billionaire, and so his idea

1215
01:06:41,320 --> 01:06:45,080
Speaker 3: of generosity is so skewed. You have the whole thing

1216
01:06:45,080 --> 01:06:48,400
Speaker 3: with Vera being like, oh, life is so unfair to

1217
01:06:48,480 --> 01:06:52,120
Speaker 3: you working class people. We're all equal, and that's why

1218
01:06:52,280 --> 01:06:56,360
Speaker 3: I'm forcing you to go down a water slide.

1219
01:06:56,040 --> 01:07:00,280
Speaker 2: Literally dance, monkey dance, like literally, yeah, I think that

1220
01:07:00,320 --> 01:07:03,600
Speaker 2: she's doing a good thing when like everyone is clearly

1221
01:07:03,720 --> 01:07:04,480
Speaker 2: very uncomfortable.

1222
01:07:04,520 --> 01:07:07,680
Speaker 3: And then there's the character Alicia, who she makes like

1223
01:07:07,920 --> 01:07:14,880
Speaker 3: sit in the hot tub in her like Leonardo DiCaprio moment, wow,

1224
01:07:15,080 --> 01:07:19,080
Speaker 3: fly clothed in water. But it's just laughable and again

1225
01:07:19,200 --> 01:07:22,840
Speaker 3: just like a stupid commentary on rich people's idea of

1226
01:07:22,920 --> 01:07:27,000
Speaker 3: generosity is and how skewed it is. Similarly, the things

1227
01:07:27,080 --> 01:07:30,400
Speaker 3: that the rich people try to offer to Abigail once

1228
01:07:30,440 --> 01:07:32,840
Speaker 3: they're on the island. We touched on this already, but

1229
01:07:32,920 --> 01:07:35,000
Speaker 3: like the rich men trying to like give her their

1230
01:07:35,040 --> 01:07:37,400
Speaker 3: watches are saying, Oh, as soon as we get off

1231
01:07:37,400 --> 01:07:41,040
Speaker 3: the island, I'll make your life easy and comfortable. Knowing

1232
01:07:41,080 --> 01:07:45,800
Speaker 3: that like they'll probably forget about Abigail immediately, yah yah,

1233
01:07:45,880 --> 01:07:48,800
Speaker 3: being like, come and work for me as my assistant

1234
01:07:49,200 --> 01:07:50,880
Speaker 3: and be at my beck and call.

1235
01:07:51,040 --> 01:07:53,400
Speaker 2: Right the second that there's a chance for her to

1236
01:07:53,440 --> 01:07:54,320
Speaker 2: get out.

1237
01:07:54,400 --> 01:07:57,680
Speaker 3: Yeah. So I enjoyed those bits of commentary. I thought

1238
01:07:57,680 --> 01:07:58,640
Speaker 3: they were very effective.

1239
01:07:59,080 --> 01:08:02,240
Speaker 2: The Alicia moment reminded me of I don't know if

1240
01:08:02,240 --> 01:08:04,320
Speaker 2: I've talked about it on the show before. My first

1241
01:08:04,400 --> 01:08:07,560
Speaker 2: job out of college was like working at this bakery

1242
01:08:07,640 --> 01:08:09,440
Speaker 2: where we were called guest huggers.

1243
01:08:09,960 --> 01:08:11,840
Speaker 3: Oh, I remember you talking about.

1244
01:08:11,600 --> 01:08:15,480
Speaker 2: It like that weird like coercion moment where you are

1245
01:08:15,600 --> 01:08:18,160
Speaker 2: like a middle class worker. I mean, that's like who

1246
01:08:18,400 --> 01:08:21,519
Speaker 2: most closely identified with on the boat. I was like

1247
01:08:21,560 --> 01:08:24,280
Speaker 2: serving their coffee, making their law dies, giving them biscuits

1248
01:08:24,360 --> 01:08:27,760
Speaker 2: or whatever. But any guest could come in and make

1249
01:08:27,880 --> 01:08:30,400
Speaker 2: you hug them, and that was like a part of

1250
01:08:30,479 --> 01:08:32,719
Speaker 2: the job. Where it could just be some fucking creep,

1251
01:08:32,720 --> 01:08:36,280
Speaker 2: which it always was. No person who's normals like, hey,

1252
01:08:36,520 --> 01:08:38,320
Speaker 2: twenty one year old girl, give me a hug, but

1253
01:08:39,080 --> 01:08:42,240
Speaker 2: you did have to do it. And that is what

1254
01:08:42,280 --> 01:08:45,040
Speaker 2: that scene felt like to me, is having to hug

1255
01:08:45,320 --> 01:08:48,840
Speaker 2: a stinky rich person in the financial district at five

1256
01:08:48,920 --> 01:08:53,160
Speaker 2: thirty am. But just to like talk a little bit

1257
01:08:53,200 --> 01:08:58,840
Speaker 2: about the Yaya Carl dynamic. It's so hard to talk

1258
01:08:58,840 --> 01:09:01,320
Speaker 2: about because I mean, and that's like part of why

1259
01:09:01,320 --> 01:09:04,320
Speaker 2: I feel like the movie's so well written. But I

1260
01:09:04,360 --> 01:09:08,160
Speaker 2: don't know, there's moments with like you're not allying with

1261
01:09:08,200 --> 01:09:11,760
Speaker 2: the hyper wealthy women, but also you can feel that

1262
01:09:11,800 --> 01:09:16,080
Speaker 2: they are being used for their looks, and so there

1263
01:09:16,160 --> 01:09:20,519
Speaker 2: is like an exchange taking place there. The conversation between

1264
01:09:20,600 --> 01:09:23,840
Speaker 2: Carl and Yaya is so infuriating because he is being

1265
01:09:23,880 --> 01:09:28,320
Speaker 2: an asshole, but he also does have a point, yeah,

1266
01:09:28,360 --> 01:09:31,880
Speaker 2: and the thing that is like weird to be like

1267
01:09:31,920 --> 01:09:35,800
Speaker 2: at the end of that scene, Yaya comes back and

1268
01:09:35,880 --> 01:09:40,519
Speaker 2: apologizes to him, which again you're like, well maybe, but

1269
01:09:40,680 --> 01:09:43,559
Speaker 2: he was like being a real asshole too, Like they

1270
01:09:43,560 --> 01:09:44,759
Speaker 2: were just both being.

1271
01:09:44,560 --> 01:09:47,800
Speaker 3: Assholes for sure, and she admits to like manipulating him.

1272
01:09:47,840 --> 01:09:49,880
Speaker 3: She's like, I don't even realize I'm doing it, but

1273
01:09:49,920 --> 01:09:51,040
Speaker 3: I know that I am.

1274
01:09:52,720 --> 01:09:52,840
Speaker 4: Right.

1275
01:09:53,080 --> 01:09:55,479
Speaker 2: I do hate the Carl character where like and then

1276
01:09:55,560 --> 01:09:57,559
Speaker 2: Carl is just like, thank you for saying that, Like

1277
01:09:57,600 --> 01:10:00,760
Speaker 2: he doesn't admit any fault, Like she a apologizes to

1278
01:10:00,840 --> 01:10:03,519
Speaker 2: him for being manipulative, which is true, and then he's like,

1279
01:10:03,600 --> 01:10:05,760
Speaker 2: thank you so much for saying that, But he doesn't

1280
01:10:05,800 --> 01:10:09,240
Speaker 2: apologize for being cruel, for blah blah blah, like anything

1281
01:10:09,280 --> 01:10:09,599
Speaker 2: like that.

1282
01:10:09,760 --> 01:10:12,080
Speaker 4: I feel like it's fun to see that early in

1283
01:10:12,120 --> 01:10:15,840
Speaker 4: the movie. As early in the movie, you see that

1284
01:10:16,000 --> 01:10:19,240
Speaker 4: the two quote unquote it's an ensemble film, but the

1285
01:10:19,280 --> 01:10:22,880
Speaker 4: two main characters of the through line of the movie

1286
01:10:22,920 --> 01:10:26,679
Speaker 4: are in a toxic relationship that looks beautiful and perfect

1287
01:10:26,720 --> 01:10:29,720
Speaker 4: from the outside to everyone else, right, and in other

1288
01:10:29,760 --> 01:10:33,120
Speaker 4: scenes they maintain it. They act like they're very lucky,

1289
01:10:33,200 --> 01:10:34,160
Speaker 4: very perfect people.

1290
01:10:34,960 --> 01:10:41,440
Speaker 3: For sure. Their conversation in part one where Carl is presenting,

1291
01:10:42,400 --> 01:10:46,519
Speaker 3: He's like, why don't you want feminism? Why don't you

1292
01:10:46,600 --> 01:10:48,280
Speaker 3: want equality between us?

1293
01:10:48,360 --> 01:10:50,240
Speaker 2: I just want us to be equals. And I feel

1294
01:10:50,240 --> 01:10:54,160
Speaker 2: like when he's getting something right, yeah, Also, okay, so

1295
01:10:54,320 --> 01:10:59,240
Speaker 2: I've just speaking from personal experience here this conversation, like

1296
01:10:59,560 --> 01:11:01,639
Speaker 2: it touches on something that I've been.

1297
01:11:02,320 --> 01:11:06,599
Speaker 3: Thinking about a lot lately, where in the context of

1298
01:11:07,040 --> 01:11:11,760
Speaker 3: heterosexual dating, which I tragically engage in, and in the

1299
01:11:11,760 --> 01:11:15,320
Speaker 3: context of like paying for things on dates. I used

1300
01:11:15,360 --> 01:11:19,720
Speaker 3: to be very like, I'm a strong independent woman. I

1301
01:11:19,760 --> 01:11:23,040
Speaker 3: don't need a man paying for me for things. Let's

1302
01:11:23,080 --> 01:11:25,040
Speaker 3: split the bill or you know, da da da. I

1303
01:11:25,120 --> 01:11:30,320
Speaker 3: was like pro distributing wealth in a relationship or whatever

1304
01:11:30,520 --> 01:11:33,320
Speaker 3: or in a date in context. And now I'm like,

1305
01:11:34,200 --> 01:11:38,879
Speaker 3: men owe me money. Like every man I've ever dated,

1306
01:11:39,439 --> 01:11:41,479
Speaker 3: every man who's ever been inside me, owes me money.

1307
01:11:41,920 --> 01:11:44,080
Speaker 3: And I don't want to pay for anything, and they

1308
01:11:44,080 --> 01:11:47,719
Speaker 3: should pay for everything. As long as like gender based

1309
01:11:47,880 --> 01:11:51,520
Speaker 3: income disparity exists, as long as we're living under the patriarchy,

1310
01:11:52,280 --> 01:11:55,799
Speaker 3: men owe me money. And that is my brave statement.

1311
01:11:56,000 --> 01:11:57,680
Speaker 3: Thank you so much, incredible.

1312
01:11:58,080 --> 01:12:01,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, that seed is so hard, right because I, like, thankfully,

1313
01:12:01,560 --> 01:12:03,920
Speaker 2: or maybe I'm just not hot enough cannot relate to

1314
01:12:04,080 --> 01:12:08,280
Speaker 2: that exact dynamic between people. But it is tricky when

1315
01:12:08,280 --> 01:12:11,240
Speaker 2: it's like, you know, I've been in relationships where like

1316
01:12:11,360 --> 01:12:17,080
Speaker 2: I am the financially dominant person and in a hetero couple,

1317
01:12:17,240 --> 01:12:19,599
Speaker 2: it is fucking weird. And you're like it is a

1318
01:12:19,640 --> 01:12:22,160
Speaker 2: strange thing to navigate. There's not at least you know,

1319
01:12:22,320 --> 01:12:25,240
Speaker 2: like certainly not how I grew up, there was no

1320
01:12:25,320 --> 01:12:29,439
Speaker 2: precedent for it. It was either equal or because of

1321
01:12:29,520 --> 01:12:33,400
Speaker 2: how payment structures worked, like even if both couples worked,

1322
01:12:33,439 --> 01:12:38,200
Speaker 2: the dad made more money. And it is interesting watching

1323
01:12:38,240 --> 01:12:43,640
Speaker 2: these two fail to have a productive conversation about that.

1324
01:12:43,720 --> 01:12:47,519
Speaker 2: I guess because I think points were made. Also the

1325
01:12:47,520 --> 01:12:50,640
Speaker 2: fact that like they just acknowledge Yeah, I don't know.

1326
01:12:50,680 --> 01:12:53,120
Speaker 2: I also hate Carl, so I'm like, just pay for dinner,

1327
01:12:53,160 --> 01:12:55,760
Speaker 2: you fucking loser. So I guess that's sorted with either.

1328
01:12:57,160 --> 01:13:00,240
Speaker 4: To me, it just looks like two manipulative people who

1329
01:13:00,240 --> 01:13:04,160
Speaker 4: are locked into like two cobras that are stalking each other.

1330
01:13:05,439 --> 01:13:09,599
Speaker 4: It looks like two toxic narcissists who are who've settled

1331
01:13:09,640 --> 01:13:12,360
Speaker 4: into an awful, terrible orbit around each other.

1332
01:13:12,880 --> 01:13:15,920
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well yeah, because I mean on the Yaya end

1333
01:13:15,960 --> 01:13:20,360
Speaker 2: of things, the dynamics switch. Every time there's a power shift,

1334
01:13:20,439 --> 01:13:23,160
Speaker 2: the things between them flip flop, like several times in

1335
01:13:23,200 --> 01:13:26,559
Speaker 2: the movie where originally he also another thing that just

1336
01:13:26,600 --> 01:13:29,479
Speaker 2: I find so irritating about this character that kind of

1337
01:13:29,520 --> 01:13:31,439
Speaker 2: comes all the way around is at the beginning where

1338
01:13:31,680 --> 01:13:34,479
Speaker 2: he's like, I'm gonna make you fall in love with me,

1339
01:13:35,000 --> 01:13:37,320
Speaker 2: where she's clearly like, this is a casual thing for me.

1340
01:13:37,800 --> 01:13:41,600
Speaker 2: I Am not like in this for life, and he

1341
01:13:41,720 --> 01:13:44,120
Speaker 2: at the end of this like act on conversation, is like,

1342
01:13:44,439 --> 01:13:46,240
Speaker 2: I'm going to make you fall in love. I'm going

1343
01:13:46,280 --> 01:13:48,280
Speaker 2: to do it, and she's like, all right, we'll.

1344
01:13:48,120 --> 01:13:50,479
Speaker 3: See, okay, good look ye. She even says she's like

1345
01:13:50,640 --> 01:13:53,679
Speaker 3: I'm in this to eventually become someone's trophy wife because

1346
01:13:53,720 --> 01:13:56,559
Speaker 3: I know that that's kind of like my only option,

1347
01:13:56,840 --> 01:13:59,679
Speaker 3: because she doesn't want to do like, you know, working

1348
01:13:59,680 --> 01:14:02,679
Speaker 3: class labor. She admits to that, Yeah.

1349
01:14:02,479 --> 01:14:04,439
Speaker 2: It's like I think she at the beginning of the movie,

1350
01:14:04,439 --> 01:14:06,920
Speaker 2: she's coming from a very pragmatic place and he's coming

1351
01:14:06,920 --> 01:14:10,799
Speaker 2: from an emotional place. And then at some point it switches.

1352
01:14:11,000 --> 01:14:12,960
Speaker 2: I hate I mean the part of this the scene

1353
01:14:12,960 --> 01:14:15,200
Speaker 2: where like Carl is the most despicable. I feel like

1354
01:14:15,200 --> 01:14:18,160
Speaker 2: it's that moment when they're on the boat and she

1355
01:14:18,439 --> 01:14:22,320
Speaker 2: talks to a crew member and he's like, why the

1356
01:14:22,320 --> 01:14:24,639
Speaker 2: fuck are you talking to a crew member and then

1357
01:14:24,800 --> 01:14:27,720
Speaker 2: goes and like narcs to Paula and is like, did

1358
01:14:27,720 --> 01:14:30,679
Speaker 2: you know that there's a sexy shirtless crew member out there,

1359
01:14:30,800 --> 01:14:33,519
Speaker 2: you should probably fire him, and then tries to buy

1360
01:14:33,600 --> 01:14:37,080
Speaker 2: like a wedding ring that she would not have accepted.

1361
01:14:37,000 --> 01:14:39,439
Speaker 3: And that he can't afford. It seems like because when

1362
01:14:39,479 --> 01:14:42,320
Speaker 3: she tells him the price, he like recoils in horror.

1363
01:14:43,680 --> 01:14:45,320
Speaker 2: I guess I would argue she's a little better, but

1364
01:14:45,400 --> 01:14:50,320
Speaker 2: not by much, because later on, when they're on the island, Yeah, yeah,

1365
01:14:50,360 --> 01:14:52,360
Speaker 2: all of a sudden acts as if she's had an

1366
01:14:52,400 --> 01:14:54,960
Speaker 2: emotional attachment to him all the time. When the power

1367
01:14:55,000 --> 01:14:58,080
Speaker 2: switches again and he's the one in the submarine with

1368
01:14:58,160 --> 01:15:00,639
Speaker 2: Abigail and she's the one left out in the cold,

1369
01:15:00,680 --> 01:15:03,200
Speaker 2: She's like, but wait, I love you, And I'm like, well, no,

1370
01:15:03,320 --> 01:15:04,120
Speaker 2: you don't.

1371
01:15:03,920 --> 01:15:06,160
Speaker 3: You know, like I mean, it just speaks to the

1372
01:15:06,240 --> 01:15:09,840
Speaker 3: toxicity of their relationship where they both feel ownership over

1373
01:15:09,880 --> 01:15:13,200
Speaker 3: the other person. Yeah, where you know, he's like, don't

1374
01:15:13,200 --> 01:15:16,320
Speaker 3: talk to that sexy crew member. I own you, and

1375
01:15:16,360 --> 01:15:19,720
Speaker 3: then she's like, don't go sleep with Abigail.

1376
01:15:19,880 --> 01:15:20,920
Speaker 2: I own you.

1377
01:15:21,200 --> 01:15:25,559
Speaker 3: I do think it's again this like gender reversal thing

1378
01:15:25,640 --> 01:15:31,320
Speaker 3: where yah Ya is instructing Carl how to behave to

1379
01:15:32,040 --> 01:15:34,720
Speaker 3: get something you want from a rich person. She's had

1380
01:15:34,720 --> 01:15:37,639
Speaker 3: to do it with rich men. And now she's like, Okay,

1381
01:15:37,840 --> 01:15:41,120
Speaker 3: here's what you do. You stroke her ego, you laugh

1382
01:15:41,160 --> 01:15:44,960
Speaker 3: at her jokes, but don't do anything sexual set boundaries.

1383
01:15:45,080 --> 01:15:47,519
Speaker 4: That's so funny that she knows that from experience. I

1384
01:15:47,560 --> 01:15:51,200
Speaker 4: never thought of that. Yeah, of course she does, because.

1385
01:15:51,000 --> 01:15:54,120
Speaker 3: She's kind of doing that with Yrma when they're like,

1386
01:15:54,200 --> 01:15:56,040
Speaker 3: come over here, have a drink with us, take a

1387
01:15:56,040 --> 01:15:58,160
Speaker 3: picture with us. And then he's like, do you want

1388
01:15:58,280 --> 01:16:01,120
Speaker 3: Rolexes and they're like, TIHI, okay.

1389
01:16:01,040 --> 01:16:04,679
Speaker 2: Yes, I want God Champagne or like whatever fucking billion

1390
01:16:04,720 --> 01:16:09,320
Speaker 2: dollar bottle he orders, Like yeah, yeah, there's like some

1391
01:16:09,400 --> 01:16:13,320
Speaker 2: sort of power dynamic and like really subtle power dynamics.

1392
01:16:13,400 --> 01:16:15,559
Speaker 2: I feel like we're not usually used to seeing and

1393
01:16:15,600 --> 01:16:19,360
Speaker 2: they're all still so funny. I don't know how he

1394
01:16:19,400 --> 01:16:19,840
Speaker 2: did it.

1395
01:16:20,240 --> 01:16:22,920
Speaker 3: Yeah. I think a great way to watch this movie

1396
01:16:23,400 --> 01:16:27,639
Speaker 3: is to watch parts one and two and then pause

1397
01:16:28,439 --> 01:16:33,320
Speaker 3: and then watch tape two of Titanic VHS Tape number two,

1398
01:16:33,439 --> 01:16:36,200
Speaker 3: which is the shipwreck and the sinking and everything.

1399
01:16:36,320 --> 01:16:38,880
Speaker 2: You feel like you're missing anything in this shipwreck that's

1400
01:16:38,920 --> 01:16:40,479
Speaker 2: all addressed in Titanic Part two.

1401
01:16:40,680 --> 01:16:45,519
Speaker 3: Yeah, just map carl Is Jack Dawson yah ya is

1402
01:16:45,680 --> 01:16:48,679
Speaker 3: rose just map some of the characters onto each other

1403
01:16:49,160 --> 01:16:51,840
Speaker 3: and then as soon as the ship sinks. Now you

1404
01:16:51,880 --> 01:16:54,120
Speaker 3: watch part three of Triangle of.

1405
01:16:54,160 --> 01:16:58,200
Speaker 2: Sadness where a crew member takes over Titanic Island.

1406
01:16:58,680 --> 01:17:05,840
Speaker 3: Yeah island. Yeah, where the guy from the engine room,

1407
01:17:06,200 --> 01:17:10,360
Speaker 3: the one who's like, shut all the dampers, He's now

1408
01:17:11,240 --> 01:17:12,120
Speaker 3: king of the island.

1409
01:17:12,160 --> 01:17:12,880
Speaker 2: He's a captain.

1410
01:17:14,760 --> 01:17:18,000
Speaker 3: Does anyone have any other thoughts about the movie?

1411
01:17:18,479 --> 01:17:23,400
Speaker 4: Triangle of Sadness truly a triangle of laughter, So they

1412
01:17:23,960 --> 01:17:27,160
Speaker 4: go hand in hand. For it's really an interesting thing

1413
01:17:27,160 --> 01:17:30,040
Speaker 4: about human storytelling that something so funny can be so

1414
01:17:30,120 --> 01:17:34,240
Speaker 4: sad and vice versa. M and I just I really

1415
01:17:34,280 --> 01:17:37,240
Speaker 4: loved that. I really loved that. There is some fantastic

1416
01:17:37,479 --> 01:17:42,080
Speaker 4: artistry in being able to force people to laugh like

1417
01:17:42,120 --> 01:17:45,479
Speaker 4: that in a room that you're not in with a

1418
01:17:45,640 --> 01:17:48,519
Speaker 4: stable hand, knowing that you're in. You know, it's like

1419
01:17:48,600 --> 01:17:51,080
Speaker 4: a great masterful comedy of that we used to do

1420
01:17:51,120 --> 01:17:51,679
Speaker 4: in America.

1421
01:17:54,360 --> 01:17:55,639
Speaker 2: Indeed, it's so good.

1422
01:17:55,760 --> 01:17:57,479
Speaker 3: The movie does pass the Bechdel test.

1423
01:17:57,880 --> 01:17:59,840
Speaker 2: It does not a ton, but it does pass. Yeah.

1424
01:18:00,080 --> 01:18:00,280
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1425
01:18:00,320 --> 01:18:06,000
Speaker 3: You have conversations between Abigail and Paula. You have conversations

1426
01:18:06,040 --> 01:18:09,200
Speaker 3: between Abigail and ya ya. I think most of the

1427
01:18:09,240 --> 01:18:13,680
Speaker 3: passes are on the island. But then you have like

1428
01:18:14,000 --> 01:18:18,040
Speaker 3: the crew member Alicia talking to Vera, and Vera being like,

1429
01:18:18,200 --> 01:18:20,959
Speaker 3: get in the hot tub and go down the water slide,

1430
01:18:21,280 --> 01:18:22,759
Speaker 3: and Abigail being.

1431
01:18:22,560 --> 01:18:27,559
Speaker 2: Like, no, that that whole thing passes that whole I mean.

1432
01:18:27,600 --> 01:18:31,640
Speaker 3: Yes, So there are a number of conversations that do

1433
01:18:31,720 --> 01:18:35,439
Speaker 3: pass the Bechdel test. Interesting imagine that as far as

1434
01:18:35,479 --> 01:18:41,080
Speaker 3: our scale, though the famous, the infamous Bechdel cast nipple scale,

1435
01:18:41,160 --> 01:18:45,559
Speaker 3: where we rate the movie zero to five nipples based

1436
01:18:45,600 --> 01:18:51,439
Speaker 3: on examining it through an intersectional feminist lens. I mean

1437
01:18:51,439 --> 01:18:54,960
Speaker 3: this is tricky because I think this movie says so

1438
01:18:55,000 --> 01:19:02,280
Speaker 3: many interesting things about class and income disparity and undervaluing

1439
01:19:02,400 --> 01:19:07,599
Speaker 3: labor and meritocracy and all of this stuff. I want

1440
01:19:07,600 --> 01:19:10,400
Speaker 3: to give it like a three point five or so.

1441
01:19:11,400 --> 01:19:13,400
Speaker 3: And again, it is cathartic, even if it's a very

1442
01:19:13,520 --> 01:19:16,320
Speaker 3: kind of surface level thing, just to watch a woman

1443
01:19:16,360 --> 01:19:21,439
Speaker 3: of color who had been undervalued probably her entire life

1444
01:19:21,800 --> 01:19:28,240
Speaker 3: and especially while working for wealthy white people, to suddenly

1445
01:19:28,280 --> 01:19:33,960
Speaker 3: become the leader of a group because she has skills

1446
01:19:34,040 --> 01:19:36,840
Speaker 3: that no one else has and that everyone else has undervalued.

1447
01:19:37,720 --> 01:19:41,360
Speaker 3: There's I feel things that complicate that a bit, but

1448
01:19:41,600 --> 01:19:44,920
Speaker 3: I still very much enjoy watching it from a surface level,

1449
01:19:45,040 --> 01:19:47,000
Speaker 3: And yeah, I think I want to give it like

1450
01:19:47,880 --> 01:19:51,719
Speaker 3: three and a half nipples. I'll give one to Dolly

1451
01:19:51,800 --> 01:19:58,160
Speaker 3: de Leon. I'll give one to Charlie by Dean Rip.

1452
01:19:59,600 --> 01:20:06,599
Speaker 3: I will give one to Captain Woody Harrelson reading his

1453
01:20:06,720 --> 01:20:11,679
Speaker 3: communist Manifesto as a weird podcast that has an audience

1454
01:20:11,760 --> 01:20:16,880
Speaker 3: of I don't know forty people. And I'll give my

1455
01:20:16,920 --> 01:20:24,400
Speaker 3: half nipple to that poor donkey who perishes RIP to him,

1456
01:20:24,680 --> 01:20:25,880
Speaker 3: the RP to the donkey.

1457
01:20:26,280 --> 01:20:29,320
Speaker 2: I'm tempted to go four. I don't know this guy.

1458
01:20:29,520 --> 01:20:31,840
Speaker 2: It's like, there's a lot of criticisms of this movie,

1459
01:20:32,280 --> 01:20:34,400
Speaker 2: and I do think that like one of the tricky

1460
01:20:34,439 --> 01:20:37,240
Speaker 2: things that Ruben Auslin can't really control is that this

1461
01:20:37,320 --> 01:20:42,000
Speaker 2: movie does seem to be directed at a wealthier audience

1462
01:20:42,560 --> 01:20:45,360
Speaker 2: to self reflect or at least a middle class audience.

1463
01:20:45,720 --> 01:20:50,160
Speaker 2: But there's so many like subclass dynamics that are really

1464
01:20:50,160 --> 01:20:53,439
Speaker 2: funny and really specific that I just like, I haven't

1465
01:20:53,479 --> 01:20:58,519
Speaker 2: seen done very much. And I think just especially I'm

1466
01:20:58,520 --> 01:21:00,640
Speaker 2: almost like grading it on a scale because there are

1467
01:21:00,680 --> 01:21:02,840
Speaker 2: just so many shady class commentary movies out at the

1468
01:21:02,840 --> 01:21:07,720
Speaker 2: same time, and this one is both like thoughtful and

1469
01:21:08,479 --> 01:21:12,479
Speaker 2: doesn't pretend it has a solution to any of it,

1470
01:21:13,280 --> 01:21:18,000
Speaker 2: which I at least appreciate because obviously one random guy

1471
01:21:18,000 --> 01:21:19,840
Speaker 2: doesn't have the answer, but it's fun to watch him

1472
01:21:19,840 --> 01:21:22,280
Speaker 2: not have the answer. And I really like this movie.

1473
01:21:22,320 --> 01:21:27,040
Speaker 2: So I'm gonna go one nipple for Dolly Deleion, one

1474
01:21:27,120 --> 01:21:33,959
Speaker 2: nipple for charleby Dean, one nipple for I Guess Nelson,

1475
01:21:34,160 --> 01:21:36,320
Speaker 2: because I just wish we'd gotten to hang out with

1476
01:21:36,320 --> 01:21:38,680
Speaker 2: that character a little more. And I'll give my last

1477
01:21:38,760 --> 01:21:42,240
Speaker 2: nipple to the movie Force Majeure, which I will get

1478
01:21:42,280 --> 01:21:42,640
Speaker 2: around to.

1479
01:21:44,040 --> 01:21:49,040
Speaker 3: We'll watch it, we'll cover someday. Maybe it's true, No Jans,

1480
01:21:49,080 --> 01:21:49,519
Speaker 3: how about you?

1481
01:21:49,800 --> 01:21:51,799
Speaker 4: Well, I feel bad. I did not know that charleby

1482
01:21:51,840 --> 01:21:54,599
Speaker 4: Dean had passed away around the time the movie came out,

1483
01:21:54,640 --> 01:21:58,639
Speaker 4: I guess right after it or something. I just learned

1484
01:21:58,640 --> 01:22:01,719
Speaker 4: it from you, and that's very sad because I would

1485
01:22:01,720 --> 01:22:05,360
Speaker 4: have loved to see more from her. I give them

1486
01:22:05,479 --> 01:22:06,559
Speaker 4: orders on a scale of five.

1487
01:22:07,240 --> 01:22:11,519
Speaker 3: Yeah, nipples, nipples, that's correct, Okay, So I'm sorry. Do

1488
01:22:11,520 --> 01:22:12,479
Speaker 3: you have questions about that?

1489
01:22:13,520 --> 01:22:17,640
Speaker 4: Have lots of questions that works for me. This is

1490
01:22:17,680 --> 01:22:23,439
Speaker 4: a five nipple flick. I didn't actually intend that. I

1491
01:22:23,520 --> 01:22:25,800
Speaker 4: didn't even think of that before I said, but there's

1492
01:22:25,800 --> 01:22:28,120
Speaker 4: a five nipple achievements.

1493
01:22:27,720 --> 01:22:29,599
Speaker 2: One after the other, right after the other.

1494
01:22:29,720 --> 01:22:33,280
Speaker 4: Yeah. I think to raise the issues matters way more

1495
01:22:33,320 --> 01:22:36,360
Speaker 4: than to solve them in a two hour movie, and

1496
01:22:37,320 --> 01:22:41,479
Speaker 4: to do that while being so funny is like an

1497
01:22:41,520 --> 01:22:47,120
Speaker 4: almost impossible high wire act. Movies that say as much

1498
01:22:47,760 --> 01:22:52,720
Speaker 4: important things are very rarely this funny, and so I

1499
01:22:52,760 --> 01:22:55,479
Speaker 4: think that's what makes it something that I would I

1500
01:22:55,520 --> 01:22:57,720
Speaker 4: give it my highest compliment, where which is I think

1501
01:22:57,720 --> 01:23:01,120
Speaker 4: that it should be preserved for future centuries to see

1502
01:23:01,120 --> 01:23:02,320
Speaker 4: what our time was like.

1503
01:23:03,720 --> 01:23:09,360
Speaker 3: Comedy and satire are such a wonderful vehicle for class commentary,

1504
01:23:09,400 --> 01:23:14,120
Speaker 3: for commentary on many, if not all things. So yeah,

1505
01:23:14,160 --> 01:23:15,240
Speaker 3: I love how funny.

1506
01:23:14,960 --> 01:23:17,360
Speaker 2: It is and there's nothing more exhausting than watching it

1507
01:23:17,400 --> 01:23:18,760
Speaker 2: not work. So it's really nice.

1508
01:23:18,760 --> 01:23:19,599
Speaker 4: That's on us.

1509
01:23:19,680 --> 01:23:23,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, sure, well, James, thank you so much for joining us.

1510
01:23:23,479 --> 01:23:26,519
Speaker 4: Yeah, this was a very fun discussion about a movie

1511
01:23:26,520 --> 01:23:28,599
Speaker 4: that I liked. Reliving the movie again with you both.

1512
01:23:28,600 --> 01:23:32,599
Speaker 3: Thank you, Oh my gosh, thank you Come back anytime please,

1513
01:23:32,800 --> 01:23:37,320
Speaker 3: And where can people follow you on social media, plug

1514
01:23:37,360 --> 01:23:38,960
Speaker 3: your special plug anything.

1515
01:23:39,120 --> 01:23:41,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, the Specialist Path of Most Resistance. It's on eight

1516
01:23:42,000 --> 01:23:44,760
Speaker 4: hundred pound Gorilla. It's on YouTube. You can watch it

1517
01:23:44,800 --> 01:23:46,680
Speaker 4: for free on YouTube. You can pay for it on

1518
01:23:46,720 --> 01:23:50,240
Speaker 4: eight hundred pound Gerrillamedia dot com. All the informations on

1519
01:23:50,280 --> 01:23:53,880
Speaker 4: my website James Adomian dot com. I have a link tree. Also,

1520
01:23:54,360 --> 01:23:56,960
Speaker 4: there's a mailing list which I'm trying to start using

1521
01:23:57,680 --> 01:24:02,080
Speaker 4: I never have before, and I've been posting a lot

1522
01:24:02,720 --> 01:24:06,920
Speaker 4: on Instagram in the last several months, which I have

1523
01:24:07,720 --> 01:24:10,920
Speaker 4: way more than I have before. So it's at Jadomian

1524
01:24:11,840 --> 01:24:14,679
Speaker 4: and then it's the same handle on threads and blue

1525
01:24:14,680 --> 01:24:20,280
Speaker 4: Skysgadomian dot bsguid dot social, and on YouTube. My personal

1526
01:24:20,320 --> 01:24:24,360
Speaker 4: YouTube channel is James Adomian xoxo, and the special lives

1527
01:24:24,360 --> 01:24:27,320
Speaker 4: on the eight hundred pound Gorilla YouTube channel as well.

1528
01:24:27,600 --> 01:24:30,880
Speaker 2: Got it cool, It's so fucking good. Congratulations, Thank you.

1529
01:24:31,240 --> 01:24:33,599
Speaker 4: I had a lot of fun doing it, and I'm

1530
01:24:33,600 --> 01:24:35,960
Speaker 4: glad that. I'm glad that it seems to have held

1531
01:24:36,040 --> 01:24:38,400
Speaker 4: up at least one year since I taped it.

1532
01:24:40,360 --> 01:24:46,000
Speaker 3: Absolutely. You can follow us mostly on Instagram at Bechdelcast,

1533
01:24:46,400 --> 01:24:51,679
Speaker 3: as well as subscribing to our Patreon aka Matreon, where

1534
01:24:51,800 --> 01:24:55,599
Speaker 3: for five dollars a month you get access to good Right,

1535
01:24:56,800 --> 01:25:02,280
Speaker 3: you get access to two bonus episodes month, including the

1536
01:25:02,400 --> 01:25:05,920
Speaker 3: entire back catalog of somewhere around one hundred and sixty

1537
01:25:06,040 --> 01:25:11,360
Speaker 3: or so bonus episodes. So scoot over there, become a matron.

1538
01:25:11,640 --> 01:25:13,000
Speaker 3: You won't regret it.

1539
01:25:13,640 --> 01:25:16,640
Speaker 2: Hell yeah, you can get merch over at teapublic dot com.

1540
01:25:16,760 --> 01:25:22,320
Speaker 2: Slash the Bechdel Cast and with that, let's toss a

1541
01:25:22,400 --> 01:25:29,719
Speaker 2: rock on someone's head and return to the islands. Yayue bye.

1542
01:25:31,520 --> 01:25:34,760
Speaker 3: The Bechdel Cast is a production of iHeartMedia, hosted by

1543
01:25:34,840 --> 01:25:38,759
Speaker 3: Caitlin Derante and Jamie Loftis, produced by Sophie Lichterman, edited

1544
01:25:38,840 --> 01:25:42,000
Speaker 3: by Mola Board. Our theme song was composed by Mike

1545
01:25:42,120 --> 01:25:46,479
Speaker 3: Kaplan with vocals by Catherine Vosskrosenski. Our logo and merch

1546
01:25:46,640 --> 01:25:49,600
Speaker 3: is designed by Jamie Loftis and a special thanks to

1547
01:25:49,640 --> 01:25:54,080
Speaker 3: Aristotle Acevedo. For more information about the podcast, please visit

1548
01:25:54,120 --> 01:25:55,679
Speaker 3: linktree slash Bechdel Cast