1 00:00:01,920 --> 00:00:06,360 Speaker 1: Please be advised this story contains adult content and graphic language. 2 00:00:07,240 --> 00:00:09,840 Speaker 1: If she's trying to look into his apartment from your 3 00:00:09,920 --> 00:00:15,680 Speaker 1: balcony and he's already arrested, Knowing what so many people 4 00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:18,040 Speaker 1: have told me about Rachel, it seems like she was 5 00:00:18,120 --> 00:00:19,880 Speaker 1: checking out whether or not you could see if she 6 00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:24,919 Speaker 1: was there at the apartment that night, I don't doubt 7 00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:39,559 Speaker 1: it at all. Welcome to Sleuth. I'm Linda Sawyer. This 8 00:00:39,640 --> 00:00:42,800 Speaker 1: week on Sleuth, we decided to do something very different 9 00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:47,360 Speaker 1: with our podcast. We have three separate interviews over the 10 00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:51,920 Speaker 1: next three nights, one with Ashley Mathis, another with Kristen 11 00:00:51,960 --> 00:00:55,440 Speaker 1: Burgo Moscow who is now Kristen Crane, and the last 12 00:00:55,520 --> 00:01:00,160 Speaker 1: being Daniel hulk Yard. These individuals I felt very strongly 13 00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:04,120 Speaker 1: could have been witnesses in either Dan Wazniak's trial or 14 00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:07,600 Speaker 1: Rachel Buffett's trial, and I wanted our listeners to hear 15 00:01:07,600 --> 00:01:12,800 Speaker 1: from them. They have compelling, sometimes very shocking stories about 16 00:01:12,840 --> 00:01:20,720 Speaker 1: their experiences with Rachel Buffett, Tim Wasniak, and Daniel Wasniac. 17 00:01:21,319 --> 00:01:26,760 Speaker 1: We've decided to separate each interview into their own specific episode, 18 00:01:27,160 --> 00:01:31,520 Speaker 1: with each new episode airing again over the next three nights. 19 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:34,800 Speaker 1: So first up, we're going to hear from Ashley Mathis. 20 00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:38,759 Speaker 1: And Ashley was a friend and member of that Taco 21 00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:43,880 Speaker 1: Tuesday group that always convened together at Dave Barnhart and 22 00:01:43,920 --> 00:01:48,040 Speaker 1: Shake Sweats apartment at the cam Did Martiniques, and she 23 00:01:48,160 --> 00:01:51,960 Speaker 1: lived at Camden Martinique. She knew Sam very well, she 24 00:01:52,040 --> 00:01:55,960 Speaker 1: knew Julie. She also knew Dan and Rachel, and she 25 00:01:56,080 --> 00:02:01,640 Speaker 1: had some experiences, particularly with Rachel soon after the murders 26 00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:03,840 Speaker 1: and for a couple of weeks after those murders that 27 00:02:03,920 --> 00:02:08,680 Speaker 1: you'll definitely want to hear. So, without further ado, let's 28 00:02:08,760 --> 00:02:16,399 Speaker 1: listen as I interview Miss Ashley Mathis. Hello, Hi, Ashley Mathis. 29 00:02:16,520 --> 00:02:20,240 Speaker 1: This is Linda Sawyer. Welcome to Sleuth. Absolutely my pleasure. 30 00:02:20,840 --> 00:02:23,160 Speaker 1: I got a lot to say about this one. So 31 00:02:23,320 --> 00:02:26,920 Speaker 1: first give us a sense of, you know, your thoughts 32 00:02:26,919 --> 00:02:29,840 Speaker 1: on when you first met her and and what your 33 00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:33,160 Speaker 1: feelings were, and and then you can, certainly, you know, 34 00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:35,800 Speaker 1: go from there and and tell us your experiences and 35 00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:39,880 Speaker 1: why you feel the way you do about her. Okay, 36 00:02:39,919 --> 00:02:43,480 Speaker 1: So I met Rachel a couple of weeks before Dam 37 00:02:43,520 --> 00:02:46,200 Speaker 1: and Julie's murders. I think I told you this before, 38 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:48,840 Speaker 1: but we had like a family dinner that we took 39 00:02:48,840 --> 00:02:53,640 Speaker 1: turned toasting every week, and a week before Damna Julie 40 00:02:53,639 --> 00:02:58,359 Speaker 1: worked killed, I hosted that dinner at my house and 41 00:02:58,600 --> 00:03:02,480 Speaker 1: Rachel and Dan were both there, and it was the 42 00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:05,080 Speaker 1: first time I really got to talk to her because 43 00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:07,480 Speaker 1: before that I knew her like an acquaintance but not 44 00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:10,679 Speaker 1: I'd never really considered her a friend. Um, she just 45 00:03:10,760 --> 00:03:12,480 Speaker 1: kind of rubbed me the wrong way from the beginning, 46 00:03:12,800 --> 00:03:15,160 Speaker 1: just all my interactions with her, she just seemed very 47 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:18,560 Speaker 1: fake and I just she I just wasn't a fan 48 00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:21,920 Speaker 1: of her. So my first impression of her, which this 49 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:24,520 Speaker 1: girl is not somebody that I want to be around. 50 00:03:25,480 --> 00:03:29,520 Speaker 1: And then the following week when we found out about 51 00:03:29,600 --> 00:03:33,200 Speaker 1: Sam and Julie, and it was the day after Dan 52 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:36,800 Speaker 1: was arrested, and so she showed up, knocked on the door, 53 00:03:37,200 --> 00:03:39,560 Speaker 1: and Hayley and I came outside and sat on the 54 00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:42,640 Speaker 1: ground with her, and she was making phone calls notifying 55 00:03:42,720 --> 00:03:46,320 Speaker 1: family that Dan was in jail and that the wedding 56 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:49,360 Speaker 1: was off. And that really rubbed me the wrong way 57 00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:51,560 Speaker 1: because I remember sitting there and thinking to myself, this 58 00:03:51,680 --> 00:03:55,440 Speaker 1: girl is showing zero emotions. This is supposed to be 59 00:03:55,480 --> 00:03:58,800 Speaker 1: her wedding day, her fiance is getting charged with double murder. 60 00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:03,480 Speaker 1: She's been here telling her family about this with zero emotions, 61 00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:07,040 Speaker 1: like never shut it here. She was very like it 62 00:04:07,120 --> 00:04:09,360 Speaker 1: was kind of like the conversations that she was having 63 00:04:09,400 --> 00:04:12,480 Speaker 1: were rehearsed, like she had thought about what she was 64 00:04:12,480 --> 00:04:14,560 Speaker 1: going to have to say to these people, and it 65 00:04:14,680 --> 00:04:18,239 Speaker 1: was like it was like scripted. And I remember looking 66 00:04:18,279 --> 00:04:20,919 Speaker 1: at Haley and thinking, like, there's something not right with 67 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:24,039 Speaker 1: this girl, you know, like this was supposed to be 68 00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:27,040 Speaker 1: her wedding day. She's not crying. She's completely put together, 69 00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:30,479 Speaker 1: like almost like she was expecting it. So that was 70 00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:33,359 Speaker 1: my first encounter with her after Dan had been arrested. 71 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:36,520 Speaker 1: That really upset me. I told Haley, remember after the 72 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:39,880 Speaker 1: conversations and she went back to her apartment. Haley and 73 00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:42,799 Speaker 1: I went inside, and I said to Haley, there's something 74 00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:48,080 Speaker 1: not right with her, like almost disassociated right right, Like 75 00:04:48,200 --> 00:04:51,400 Speaker 1: she had no emotions attached to the situation whatsoever. To 76 00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:55,000 Speaker 1: any normal person like myself, that were my wedding day 77 00:04:55,160 --> 00:04:57,880 Speaker 1: and my fiance had just been charge of the double homicide, 78 00:04:57,880 --> 00:05:01,159 Speaker 1: I would be freaking out like I would be in 79 00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:04,560 Speaker 1: most people at the point where like, yes, so that 80 00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:07,599 Speaker 1: her reaction and the way that she carried those conversations 81 00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:11,159 Speaker 1: was really abnormal to me. In that moment, I knew 82 00:05:11,200 --> 00:05:13,279 Speaker 1: that she knew more than she was leading on. Did 83 00:05:13,279 --> 00:05:16,240 Speaker 1: you feel like she was intoxicated? Did she come with 84 00:05:16,279 --> 00:05:22,359 Speaker 1: a glass of wine or so? Not that day? So then, um, 85 00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:27,480 Speaker 1: about a week later is when she came to our apartment. 86 00:05:27,480 --> 00:05:29,600 Speaker 1: And she had only been to our apartment twice, one 87 00:05:29,680 --> 00:05:32,320 Speaker 1: at the dinner party and two when she came and 88 00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:34,560 Speaker 1: knocked on our door and had those conversations on her 89 00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:37,320 Speaker 1: wedding day. So then she came over a third time 90 00:05:37,360 --> 00:05:40,280 Speaker 1: about a week later, didn't even knock on our door, 91 00:05:40,880 --> 00:05:43,000 Speaker 1: and she just walked in with a glass of wine. 92 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:45,960 Speaker 1: I remember it was about like six o'clock, six thirty, 93 00:05:46,240 --> 00:05:49,159 Speaker 1: and she just came barging into our apartment with a 94 00:05:49,160 --> 00:05:51,800 Speaker 1: glass of wine and walked straight like belined it to 95 00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:54,719 Speaker 1: the balcony, and Haley and I were sitting on the 96 00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:57,240 Speaker 1: couch like what are you doing here? And she was like, oh, 97 00:05:57,360 --> 00:05:59,880 Speaker 1: I want to see the view of the sunset from 98 00:05:59,880 --> 00:06:04,480 Speaker 1: your balcony, knowing very well that her apartment building, which 99 00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:07,320 Speaker 1: was the same apartment building as Sam's, blocked our view 100 00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:10,640 Speaker 1: of the sunset. So their apartment building was like right 101 00:06:10,680 --> 00:06:12,520 Speaker 1: across the way. If you went out to your deck, 102 00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:17,400 Speaker 1: you could basically see across into Sam's apartment. You could 103 00:06:17,440 --> 00:06:21,240 Speaker 1: see into Sam's apartment. I mean our balcony faced their 104 00:06:21,279 --> 00:06:25,440 Speaker 1: apartments straight across. So if you walk out on our 105 00:06:25,480 --> 00:06:28,400 Speaker 1: balcony and Sam's blind were open, you could see into 106 00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:31,159 Speaker 1: his living room in kitchen. So she made a bee 107 00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:35,320 Speaker 1: line right for your deck, right to my deck. Yep, 108 00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:37,880 Speaker 1: and Haley and I stood up, like what are you 109 00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:40,279 Speaker 1: doing here? Didn't even knock, just open the door and 110 00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:46,120 Speaker 1: welcomed herself in. And she had the attitude of everything's okay, 111 00:06:46,279 --> 00:06:48,600 Speaker 1: I'm drinking my glass of wine, going to look at 112 00:06:48,600 --> 00:06:51,560 Speaker 1: the sunset. Your your fiancee is in jail for a 113 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:54,520 Speaker 1: double murder, and you come barging into somebody's apartment that 114 00:06:54,640 --> 00:06:57,520 Speaker 1: you barely know. I didn't even knock, just open the 115 00:06:57,520 --> 00:07:00,719 Speaker 1: door and walked in. Welcome yourself into our house, and 116 00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:03,120 Speaker 1: just go straight to our balcony to look at the sunset, 117 00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:05,520 Speaker 1: knowing very well that we can't see it because you're 118 00:07:05,560 --> 00:07:09,000 Speaker 1: building blocks it. So Haley and I both stood up 119 00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:11,360 Speaker 1: and walked over to her and told her, you need 120 00:07:11,360 --> 00:07:14,360 Speaker 1: to get out of our apartment because at that point, 121 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:16,640 Speaker 1: her and I both knew that Rachel knew more than 122 00:07:16,680 --> 00:07:19,040 Speaker 1: she was leading on. We knew that she was lying, 123 00:07:19,160 --> 00:07:21,440 Speaker 1: We knew she she knew more than she was saying, 124 00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:25,200 Speaker 1: and it really upset us. And the fact that I 125 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:28,520 Speaker 1: think that she welcomed herself in because she knew that 126 00:07:28,680 --> 00:07:30,720 Speaker 1: we would not let her come in if she knocked. 127 00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:35,080 Speaker 1: So I think her motive was to see if if 128 00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:39,280 Speaker 1: we could see anything into Sam's apartment. That seems like 129 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:42,679 Speaker 1: what her intent was, and that was at the time 130 00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:46,360 Speaker 1: what you determined. Her intent was that there was a 131 00:07:46,400 --> 00:07:51,120 Speaker 1: nefarious reason why she was there, Absolutely no doubt in 132 00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:53,400 Speaker 1: my mind. Haley and I were really upset and we 133 00:07:53,400 --> 00:07:55,960 Speaker 1: were trying to voice her that we would like her 134 00:07:56,000 --> 00:08:01,200 Speaker 1: to leave. She wouldn't leave, and so I eventually grabbed 135 00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:02,800 Speaker 1: her by her hair and pulled her out of our 136 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:06,960 Speaker 1: apartment because that was so mad. That's how strongly you 137 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:11,760 Speaker 1: felt about that she was there because she was perhaps involved. 138 00:08:11,760 --> 00:08:14,200 Speaker 1: And why do you think she was looking into the apartment, 139 00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:18,120 Speaker 1: into Sam's apartment. I think that she wanted to see 140 00:08:18,120 --> 00:08:21,400 Speaker 1: if maybe we saw anything, because she's I think she 141 00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:23,760 Speaker 1: was trying to cover her tracks or dance tracks, just 142 00:08:23,920 --> 00:08:26,720 Speaker 1: seeing if there were any witnesses, any possible witnesses to 143 00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:30,360 Speaker 1: anything that might have gone down during the murders. I 144 00:08:30,840 --> 00:08:32,960 Speaker 1: have no doubt in my mind that's what she was 145 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:35,240 Speaker 1: looking for, to see if we had a clear view 146 00:08:35,880 --> 00:08:38,600 Speaker 1: into the crime scene. Was she on the conversation, did 147 00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:41,679 Speaker 1: she have herself? When was she talking to anybody? She 148 00:08:41,760 --> 00:08:43,920 Speaker 1: wasn't talking to anybody. It was just her and her 149 00:08:43,920 --> 00:08:49,800 Speaker 1: gloss of wine. And you know, I makes me think 150 00:08:49,880 --> 00:08:54,520 Speaker 1: about a conversation she had with police after Dan was 151 00:08:54,640 --> 00:08:59,040 Speaker 1: arrested that Wednesday night from his bachelor party and they 152 00:08:59,080 --> 00:09:02,280 Speaker 1: brought her in. I think you were at at Jay's 153 00:09:02,400 --> 00:09:05,840 Speaker 1: apartment and Dave was there, and Miles was there, and 154 00:09:05,840 --> 00:09:07,719 Speaker 1: I think Rachel was there, and the police came in 155 00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:09,839 Speaker 1: and they brought her back to Costa Masa if you 156 00:09:09,920 --> 00:09:14,840 Speaker 1: recall that night, and I think she told police when 157 00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:18,199 Speaker 1: police told her they knew what time Julie arrived and 158 00:09:18,280 --> 00:09:23,559 Speaker 1: what time she was murdered. I remember noticing how flustered 159 00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:28,840 Speaker 1: she seemed on the tape when she realized they knew 160 00:09:29,280 --> 00:09:32,560 Speaker 1: exactly what time Julie arrived in Sam's apartment and what 161 00:09:32,640 --> 00:09:35,839 Speaker 1: time she was murdered. She she seemed very nervous about that, 162 00:09:35,880 --> 00:09:40,040 Speaker 1: Like you know the time that Julie arrived, You know 163 00:09:40,120 --> 00:09:42,560 Speaker 1: the exact time, And it makes you wonder if she's 164 00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:45,840 Speaker 1: if she's trying to look into his apartment from your 165 00:09:45,920 --> 00:09:51,680 Speaker 1: balcony and he's already arrested. Knowing what so many people 166 00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:54,040 Speaker 1: have told me about Rachel, it seems like she was 167 00:09:54,120 --> 00:09:55,880 Speaker 1: checking out whether or not you could see if she 168 00:09:56,000 --> 00:10:00,920 Speaker 1: was there at the apartment that night. I don't doubt 169 00:10:00,920 --> 00:10:05,640 Speaker 1: it at all. Do you think her role in Sam 170 00:10:05,679 --> 00:10:08,760 Speaker 1: Harrer and Julie Kape She's murders. Do you think her 171 00:10:08,880 --> 00:10:14,200 Speaker 1: role was more than accessory? I can't say for sure, 172 00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:17,160 Speaker 1: but I have a feeling that she knew before it happened. 173 00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:21,120 Speaker 1: Otherwise she would have reacted differently when she found out. 174 00:10:22,720 --> 00:10:25,840 Speaker 1: And that is my own personal opinion. But any normal 175 00:10:25,880 --> 00:10:29,200 Speaker 1: person that didn't know about a plot to kill somebody, 176 00:10:29,320 --> 00:10:33,680 Speaker 1: especially friends, I mean they were friends. Who are you 177 00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:35,560 Speaker 1: talking about? Who are you referring to when you say 178 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:40,240 Speaker 1: they are friends? Rachel and Dan were friends with Sam, 179 00:10:40,280 --> 00:10:43,280 Speaker 1: and if if she had no idea that Dan was 180 00:10:43,320 --> 00:10:47,560 Speaker 1: plotting to kill Sam and Julie, she would have reacted 181 00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:51,360 Speaker 1: differently when she found out, and she didn't react, She 182 00:10:51,480 --> 00:10:54,240 Speaker 1: never shed a tear, she didn't show any emotions. So 183 00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:56,760 Speaker 1: that makes me think she knew what was going to 184 00:10:56,840 --> 00:10:59,840 Speaker 1: happen before it happened. She had time to prepare herself. 185 00:10:59,840 --> 00:11:03,200 Speaker 1: If things went south and Dan got caught, she already 186 00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:05,360 Speaker 1: had time to think about how to cover her own track. 187 00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:09,640 Speaker 1: You felt like everybody else that knew Sam and new Julie, 188 00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:14,920 Speaker 1: everybody else was pretty upset, right, Absolutely, we were all 189 00:11:14,960 --> 00:11:18,439 Speaker 1: a disaster. I mean, it was really hard to swallow. 190 00:11:20,480 --> 00:11:22,520 Speaker 1: It was really hard on all of us. It was 191 00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:27,960 Speaker 1: very emotional, and it's probably, i mean definitely one of 192 00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:32,520 Speaker 1: the hardest times in my life. And do you feel 193 00:11:32,600 --> 00:11:35,400 Speaker 1: that you're not alone in your feelings about Rachel and 194 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:39,640 Speaker 1: her role in in these murders? Oh, I know I'm not. 195 00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:43,439 Speaker 1: I absolutely know I'm not. Anybody that lived at the 196 00:11:43,520 --> 00:11:47,160 Speaker 1: Kansa Martinique apartment complex and it was part of our family, 197 00:11:47,240 --> 00:11:50,360 Speaker 1: Like our close knit group of friends, we all feel 198 00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:53,640 Speaker 1: the same way about Rachel. Whenever you do have a 199 00:11:53,720 --> 00:11:59,560 Speaker 1: chance to connect, is that a topic of conversation? It 200 00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:02,840 Speaker 1: has come up, especially when I've talked to Haley and 201 00:12:02,920 --> 00:12:05,719 Speaker 1: Jake and Haley was your roommate at the time, and 202 00:12:05,840 --> 00:12:09,319 Speaker 1: Jake Sweat was Dave Barnhard's roommate, both at the game 203 00:12:09,360 --> 00:12:13,559 Speaker 1: to Martinique's um. But I think that as time has 204 00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:17,280 Speaker 1: gone on, especially with Jake, those wounds taken a long 205 00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:20,240 Speaker 1: time to heal, so we try not to talk about 206 00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:22,439 Speaker 1: it unless there's something going on with a child we 207 00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:25,520 Speaker 1: would like to discuss or whatnot. So it has come 208 00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:27,640 Speaker 1: up in conversation, and that's how I know that we 209 00:12:27,679 --> 00:12:29,320 Speaker 1: all are on the same page as far as Rachel 210 00:12:29,320 --> 00:12:33,319 Speaker 1: Buffett goes. And do you include in that group Dave Barnhard. 211 00:12:35,679 --> 00:12:39,439 Speaker 1: I haven't spoken to Dave directly, but I know that 212 00:12:39,559 --> 00:12:43,040 Speaker 1: Jake has and I know that Haley has, and both 213 00:12:43,080 --> 00:12:45,360 Speaker 1: of them mentioned that he was very upset about the 214 00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:48,040 Speaker 1: Rachel situation as well, and he felt that she had 215 00:12:48,080 --> 00:12:50,960 Speaker 1: something to do with it, so he has he has 216 00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:56,880 Speaker 1: changed his opinion then, because he obviously, for a long 217 00:12:56,960 --> 00:13:00,920 Speaker 1: time had strong feelings for her, and I think that 218 00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:05,800 Speaker 1: might have clouded some of his judgment. I think I 219 00:13:05,880 --> 00:13:09,439 Speaker 1: know that you're right. Um. I didn't know I had 220 00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:13,520 Speaker 1: heard rumors about Dave and Rachel before everything happened, but 221 00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:15,960 Speaker 1: after afterwards was when I heard about it, and it 222 00:13:16,040 --> 00:13:18,040 Speaker 1: made sense because I do remember he was kind of 223 00:13:18,040 --> 00:13:21,359 Speaker 1: in denial about Rachel being involved in the whole situation. 224 00:13:22,040 --> 00:13:24,160 Speaker 1: But I'm not sure if this is true or not 225 00:13:24,240 --> 00:13:26,600 Speaker 1: that just from the very few conversations I've had with 226 00:13:26,679 --> 00:13:30,160 Speaker 1: Jake and Haley, is that he might have changed his 227 00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:33,760 Speaker 1: mind about Rachel and her involvement over the years that 228 00:13:33,800 --> 00:13:36,640 Speaker 1: I haven't spoken. Yeah, I haven't spoken him directly, so 229 00:13:36,679 --> 00:13:40,280 Speaker 1: I don't know, but that was my understanding. Well, I 230 00:13:40,400 --> 00:13:46,760 Speaker 1: actually have been in contact with Dave intermittently throughout this investigation, 231 00:13:46,960 --> 00:13:53,000 Speaker 1: and he told me that he did have a relationship 232 00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:55,640 Speaker 1: with Julie. In fact, he slept with her two nights 233 00:13:55,679 --> 00:13:57,680 Speaker 1: before she was murdered. I don't know if you know that. 234 00:13:58,920 --> 00:14:03,280 Speaker 1: I did not know that he did, and I believe 235 00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:08,240 Speaker 1: he might have shared that with Rachel and knowing Rachel 236 00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:11,000 Speaker 1: as you do, even though I know it's not extensively, 237 00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:14,920 Speaker 1: but you certainly seem to know. Yes, I'm wondering if 238 00:14:14,960 --> 00:14:18,800 Speaker 1: that was part of it. It might have share as well. 239 00:14:18,880 --> 00:14:23,400 Speaker 1: Could be Do you feel as if I know that 240 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:28,600 Speaker 1: these were friends of yours that you lost and friends 241 00:14:28,640 --> 00:14:34,240 Speaker 1: that you thought, maybe at the time were fake and 242 00:14:34,520 --> 00:14:40,400 Speaker 1: phony but not psychotic killers. Was it just shocking to 243 00:14:40,520 --> 00:14:47,320 Speaker 1: find out what you're new friends were capable of? Absolutely, 244 00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:51,200 Speaker 1: I mean it blew my mind. Because Dan wagsni Act 245 00:14:51,400 --> 00:14:56,480 Speaker 1: came off as the fun, outgoing guy that everybody got 246 00:14:56,480 --> 00:14:59,400 Speaker 1: along with. You wouldn't think that he would be capable 247 00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:01,480 Speaker 1: of something like that. So when we found out that 248 00:15:01,560 --> 00:15:06,920 Speaker 1: it was Dan, it was beyond shocking, I mean, and 249 00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:10,760 Speaker 1: the brutality of the murder. I mean, Sam was one 250 00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:13,920 Speaker 1: of the most gentle, kind hearted people I have ever 251 00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:17,480 Speaker 1: met in my entire life. He was so sweet, I mean, 252 00:15:17,520 --> 00:15:20,800 Speaker 1: he was such a doll, and knowing what happened to 253 00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:26,600 Speaker 1: him at the hands of one of his friends is awful, 254 00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:30,520 Speaker 1: especially he was going to help him, Absolutely, yes, I 255 00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:32,640 Speaker 1: mean Sam took time out of his day to go 256 00:15:32,760 --> 00:15:38,200 Speaker 1: help Dan, moved these items or whatever, and it was 257 00:15:38,240 --> 00:15:40,280 Speaker 1: all a plot to kill him. I mean, that is 258 00:15:41,320 --> 00:15:45,480 Speaker 1: so cold hearted and evil. It just it's still hard 259 00:15:45,520 --> 00:15:48,320 Speaker 1: to grasp to this day. And the brutality of what 260 00:15:48,400 --> 00:15:50,600 Speaker 1: he did to Sam after he killed him like that, 261 00:15:51,560 --> 00:15:56,120 Speaker 1: it's something that is very hard to grasp. The dismemberment, Yes, 262 00:15:56,360 --> 00:16:01,840 Speaker 1: it's awful, I mean it is. It's the me and 263 00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:06,080 Speaker 1: having spoken with Dan, and the fact that he went 264 00:16:06,120 --> 00:16:11,360 Speaker 1: on stage and performed that same night is disgusting to me, Like, 265 00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:14,440 Speaker 1: how can you carry on your normal life after what 266 00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:17,840 Speaker 1: you just did to two of your friends. Yeah, it's 267 00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:21,960 Speaker 1: like the real life Phantom of the Opera. It really is. 268 00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:27,800 Speaker 1: It's like it's psychotic. You you kill your friend in 269 00:16:27,840 --> 00:16:29,960 Speaker 1: the attic of the theater, and that night you're on 270 00:16:30,040 --> 00:16:35,560 Speaker 1: stage performing exactly. I just don't understand it. That is 271 00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:39,920 Speaker 1: not normal. And then to go back like you before. 272 00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:42,400 Speaker 1: I mean, he he murdered Sam in the attic of 273 00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:45,440 Speaker 1: the theater. He goes on stage that night and performs 274 00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:50,640 Speaker 1: to sell out crowd applause, and and then he goes 275 00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:54,440 Speaker 1: back to his house and Laure's Julie to Sam's apartment 276 00:16:54,560 --> 00:17:00,200 Speaker 1: and kills her. And then the next day he is 277 00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:03,000 Speaker 1: back to the theater, dismembering Sam, and then he's got 278 00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:07,520 Speaker 1: a performance that night. I know. It's sick. It is 279 00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:11,040 Speaker 1: sick and Sam. I mean the way he got Sam's 280 00:17:11,080 --> 00:17:15,879 Speaker 1: pin number, because obviously he couldn't he the the plan 281 00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:20,200 Speaker 1: would not have gone off if he couldn't get Sam's 282 00:17:20,280 --> 00:17:23,520 Speaker 1: pin number, and even the evil way in which he 283 00:17:23,560 --> 00:17:26,240 Speaker 1: got that, because he goes to Sam and asks him 284 00:17:26,280 --> 00:17:29,439 Speaker 1: to help him give him money for, you know, stave 285 00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:33,200 Speaker 1: off his eviction, and he goes with Sam to get 286 00:17:33,280 --> 00:17:35,160 Speaker 1: Sam says, I'll give you a hundred dollars for your wedding. 287 00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:37,080 Speaker 1: You don't have to pay me back. And he goes 288 00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:39,080 Speaker 1: with Sam and looks over his shoulder to get the 289 00:17:39,119 --> 00:17:43,200 Speaker 1: pin numbers. So so he knew, Okay, now the plan 290 00:17:43,359 --> 00:17:48,560 Speaker 1: is on. I'm going to murder you. Yeah, it's just it. 291 00:17:49,320 --> 00:17:55,080 Speaker 1: It's unbelievable. It's truly unthinking about it this day. Yeah, 292 00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:58,680 Speaker 1: eight years later and it's still hard to swallow. It 293 00:17:58,840 --> 00:18:02,920 Speaker 1: just feels like it was straight out of some kind 294 00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:08,960 Speaker 1: of Alfred Hitchcock movie. They thought they were acting apart yep, 295 00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:13,440 Speaker 1: it's yeah, it's crazy. It makes me wonder were they 296 00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:16,040 Speaker 1: acting the entire time? As soon as they found out 297 00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:21,399 Speaker 1: about Sam's financial situation. It's really hard not to believe 298 00:18:21,480 --> 00:18:25,600 Speaker 1: that they were acting. With everybody like to become close 299 00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:28,119 Speaker 1: with this person, Am, I just felt like they had 300 00:18:28,440 --> 00:18:31,600 Speaker 1: superior motives. Just makes me wonder like were any of 301 00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:34,439 Speaker 1: those friendships and relationships real or were they all acting? 302 00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:39,000 Speaker 1: Because even when Rachel went on Dr Phil, she had 303 00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:41,639 Speaker 1: to force herself to cry then and make herself look innocent. 304 00:18:41,680 --> 00:18:44,679 Speaker 1: But she couldn't even squeeze out one tier telling her 305 00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:47,200 Speaker 1: family the weddings off because of fiance is arrested for 306 00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:50,720 Speaker 1: double homicide of two of her friends. She is one 307 00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:52,600 Speaker 1: hell of an actress. If she can put on that 308 00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:55,880 Speaker 1: kind of ask on Dr Phil to make herself look innocent, 309 00:18:56,359 --> 00:18:57,840 Speaker 1: I have no doubt that she can put on and 310 00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:00,680 Speaker 1: ask for the rest of the people in her life. Well, 311 00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:04,359 Speaker 1: she really You could see that her whole demeanor change 312 00:19:04,359 --> 00:19:07,480 Speaker 1: when Dr Phil said you're an actress now, and a 313 00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:10,159 Speaker 1: very good one. Oh my gosh. That was enough to 314 00:19:10,280 --> 00:19:14,360 Speaker 1: just make her straighten up and smile. And she just thought, Wow, 315 00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:17,119 Speaker 1: I'm on national TV and Dr Phil's calling me a 316 00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:21,320 Speaker 1: great actress. In fact, it made reminded me of several 317 00:19:21,359 --> 00:19:24,520 Speaker 1: conversations I had with some of her girlfriends that stood 318 00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:29,399 Speaker 1: by her when she was arrested back in November, and 319 00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:33,359 Speaker 1: all of the news accounts were ex fiance of Wozniak 320 00:19:34,119 --> 00:19:38,239 Speaker 1: arrested for accessory after the fact, right, And she was 321 00:19:38,359 --> 00:19:41,560 Speaker 1: telling her friends, do you hear them? Do you hear 322 00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:45,440 Speaker 1: the news reports? They're calling me an actress. She didn't 323 00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:48,919 Speaker 1: care that she was being accused of being an accomplice 324 00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:51,679 Speaker 1: and a double murder. She cared more that she was 325 00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:55,840 Speaker 1: being lauded as this actress. Yeah, her mind is elsewhere. 326 00:19:56,000 --> 00:19:59,400 Speaker 1: She wants to play the victim, and it's all about herself, 327 00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:03,359 Speaker 1: not about anybody else or the family suffering or the 328 00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:06,320 Speaker 1: suffering that her and Dan have caused us as dam 329 00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:09,640 Speaker 1: and Julie's friends. All she cares about is herself. And 330 00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:14,800 Speaker 1: those charges of accessory after the fact are actually based 331 00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:18,960 Speaker 1: on Rachel's lies, with the idea that she was supposedly 332 00:20:19,040 --> 00:20:23,840 Speaker 1: covering up for Dan. But I think it had nothing 333 00:20:23,840 --> 00:20:26,119 Speaker 1: to do with Dan at that point. I don't think 334 00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:29,399 Speaker 1: she cared one iota about the fact that he was 335 00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:32,119 Speaker 1: going down. You're dead already, babe, she tells him in 336 00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:34,920 Speaker 1: one of her calls. I think she just wanted to 337 00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:37,639 Speaker 1: do whatever she could to make sure she got away clean, 338 00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:41,679 Speaker 1: and she was covering up her own role. Yeah, because 339 00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:45,880 Speaker 1: she's smart. The way that she awarded those jail calls 340 00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:50,080 Speaker 1: about the bag of evidence and all the little comments 341 00:20:50,119 --> 00:20:53,000 Speaker 1: that she made about that, It's like she made sure 342 00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:56,080 Speaker 1: that her voice was on recording downy as innocent as 343 00:20:56,080 --> 00:20:58,800 Speaker 1: she possibly could. Yet there was still no emotion in 344 00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:01,679 Speaker 1: her voice, zero, I think you just nailed it right 345 00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:05,680 Speaker 1: on the head. I believe that those calls were scripted. 346 00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:10,200 Speaker 1: Alibis that she could say, go to the recordings, listen. 347 00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:12,000 Speaker 1: In fact, she said it at Dr Phil. It's all 348 00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:16,040 Speaker 1: on the recordings. Go listen to the recordings where she's 349 00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:20,359 Speaker 1: feigning that she doesn't know any details about the plot 350 00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:25,440 Speaker 1: and what he did, and and uh, she just wanted 351 00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:31,000 Speaker 1: to make sure that she sounded like an innocent bystander. Absolutely, 352 00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:33,840 Speaker 1: it was all planned. It was all playing Rachel's game. 353 00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:38,000 Speaker 1: She played a lot of people like fiddles. It's really sad. 354 00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:42,200 Speaker 1: Do you feel like she was the matriarch in that relationship? 355 00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:46,720 Speaker 1: Was she in control? Did Dan do whatever Rachel wanted? 356 00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:51,439 Speaker 1: I do believe that, I really do. I mean just 357 00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:54,480 Speaker 1: and that The only reason I say that with confidence 358 00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:58,000 Speaker 1: is because of how she behaved and how she spoke 359 00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:03,520 Speaker 1: in the days following Dan's arrest and the behavior that 360 00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:06,000 Speaker 1: came in the following week. I remember her getting out 361 00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:07,760 Speaker 1: of my balcony and I would see Rachel drive in 362 00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:11,320 Speaker 1: with her sunglasses on and windows down, music flaring, just 363 00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:15,240 Speaker 1: like life is going on. Dan went down for the cryings, 364 00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:18,080 Speaker 1: and she's still living her perfect little life driving in 365 00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:21,160 Speaker 1: and out of the garage at Camden Martinique like nothing happened. 366 00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:25,359 Speaker 1: It's just well, he took the fall for a crime 367 00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:28,560 Speaker 1: that I was aware of. Sucked for him, but I'm 368 00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:32,760 Speaker 1: still okay. That's how I thought. And speaking of driving 369 00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:36,439 Speaker 1: in and out of Camden Martinique, I wanted you to 370 00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:42,320 Speaker 1: share with our listeners the story that you shared with 371 00:22:42,359 --> 00:22:47,400 Speaker 1: me about you and Jake on the balcony the Saturday 372 00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:53,880 Speaker 1: morning after Sam's disappearance on Friday, and nobody knows at 373 00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:56,600 Speaker 1: this point where Sam is. Nobody knows at this point 374 00:22:56,640 --> 00:23:00,920 Speaker 1: that Julie is murdered and lying lifeless in Sam's apartment. 375 00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:04,640 Speaker 1: This is that Saturday morning when you see Sam's car 376 00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:08,000 Speaker 1: drive in and you thought, finally Sam has arrived home. 377 00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:12,160 Speaker 1: Would you share with our listeners that story? Please? Sure? Yes. 378 00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:15,520 Speaker 1: So Jake and I were standing out on our balcony 379 00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:19,680 Speaker 1: um and we were talking about where is Sam because 380 00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:21,560 Speaker 1: we had gone over and knocked on his door. He 381 00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:24,760 Speaker 1: didn't show up to his parents house for dinner. Nobody 382 00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:28,480 Speaker 1: knew where he was. We were all wondering where is Sam. Well, 383 00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:31,000 Speaker 1: then we're standing out on the balcony and we see 384 00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:35,639 Speaker 1: Sam's car come in and we're like, oh, there's Sam. 385 00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:38,120 Speaker 1: But then you look in the car. Sam is not driving, 386 00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:41,480 Speaker 1: and in the passenger seat we saw somebody with a 387 00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:45,840 Speaker 1: black hat on and sunglasses and we were like, well, 388 00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:48,560 Speaker 1: who is that? And it's clearly not Sam driving the car. 389 00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:52,600 Speaker 1: And that was a really big red flag for us 390 00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:54,960 Speaker 1: because if nobody knows where Sam is yet here's his 391 00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:58,480 Speaker 1: car with somebody driving it that isn't Sam. And then 392 00:23:58,520 --> 00:24:01,640 Speaker 1: this passenger who we didn't know at the time who 393 00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:03,600 Speaker 1: it was. I'm not sure if they ever figured out 394 00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:06,159 Speaker 1: who it was, whether it be no Ah Buffet or 395 00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:10,280 Speaker 1: Dan Waziacs brother, but it definitely wasn't Sam. So that 396 00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:13,399 Speaker 1: really threw us off. That was concerning. And Jake said 397 00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:18,560 Speaker 1: that the driver was was Dan? Dan Wasniac? Yeah. So 398 00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:21,639 Speaker 1: he was on my right side and he saw the driver. 399 00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:24,800 Speaker 1: I didn't see the driver, but I said, that's not Sam. 400 00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:27,960 Speaker 1: He's like, is that Dan? And I said, I don't know. 401 00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:29,840 Speaker 1: I didn't. I didn't see the driver's face. I just 402 00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:32,359 Speaker 1: saw his arm on the wheel. So Jake had a 403 00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:34,680 Speaker 1: better view of the driver. I got the passenger side, 404 00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:38,320 Speaker 1: and I remember him saying, is that Dan? It looks 405 00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:41,720 Speaker 1: like Dan, but at that point whatever, like maybe Sam 406 00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:45,800 Speaker 1: let and borrow his car. We don't know, yes, because 407 00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:48,600 Speaker 1: normally you said if you I guess Jake was yelling 408 00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:53,560 Speaker 1: out Sam, Sam, And normally I guess. Jake said to 409 00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:56,199 Speaker 1: me that he was with you on the balcony and 410 00:24:56,240 --> 00:25:00,719 Speaker 1: he noticed the car too and realized it wasn't Sam driving, 411 00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:04,040 Speaker 1: but in fact it was Dan Wasniak driving, but initially 412 00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:06,359 Speaker 1: he was calling out Sam's name, and he said Sam 413 00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:08,960 Speaker 1: would have stopped the car and popped out and waved 414 00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:12,159 Speaker 1: and and and he didn't. Do you do you remember 415 00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:14,600 Speaker 1: why you guys didn't go down to the garage too 416 00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:19,600 Speaker 1: to confront whoever it was in Sam's car. I don't remember, 417 00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:22,119 Speaker 1: um at that point. I don't think Sam had been 418 00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:25,080 Speaker 1: missing that long, UM. But I do remember I was 419 00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:28,639 Speaker 1: facing Jake, and then Jake was facing me, and so 420 00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:31,200 Speaker 1: Jake could see in the direction of the driveway coming 421 00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:33,760 Speaker 1: into the apartment complex. So he's the first one that 422 00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:36,879 Speaker 1: saw Sam's car, so he started waving his hand yelling Sam, 423 00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:39,879 Speaker 1: and I turned around. So the car drove below our 424 00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:42,840 Speaker 1: balcony and was waiting to go into the garage to 425 00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:47,399 Speaker 1: their building, to Dan and Sam's building, and that's when 426 00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:50,400 Speaker 1: as they were turning, I saw the passenger and Jake 427 00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:54,199 Speaker 1: was like, is that Dan? And then that was the 428 00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:56,160 Speaker 1: end of that. They drove in and he was like, well, 429 00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:59,399 Speaker 1: that was weird. To this day, I wish that we 430 00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:01,960 Speaker 1: would have gone down there. I wish we would have, 431 00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:06,199 Speaker 1: but for some reason we didn't. At that point, it 432 00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:09,320 Speaker 1: was like it was nervous. We were nervous because dam 433 00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:12,200 Speaker 1: wasn't contacting anybody, but he hadn't been missing that long 434 00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:15,280 Speaker 1: to have it be that big of a concern. We 435 00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:17,359 Speaker 1: knew that Dan was planning on going to dinner and 436 00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:21,440 Speaker 1: his parents, Um, we weren't sure what had happened after 437 00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:24,239 Speaker 1: that or if he had ever gone, So this all 438 00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:28,720 Speaker 1: kind of unfolded before we knew what happened. Well, I 439 00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:33,320 Speaker 1: do have a source that told me that that was 440 00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:36,400 Speaker 1: Dan and Tim, and Tim was there to help him 441 00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:40,960 Speaker 1: clean up the apartment, the blood position, Julie's body write 442 00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:44,159 Speaker 1: the words fuck you all yours on the back of 443 00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:49,159 Speaker 1: her sweater, and uh, I guess Tim lightened up some 444 00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:51,159 Speaker 1: things he thought might have had some value in that 445 00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:56,000 Speaker 1: apartment and took them with him, and yeah, and yet 446 00:26:56,040 --> 00:27:00,199 Speaker 1: Tim ended up being a witness for the prosecution. They 447 00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:04,919 Speaker 1: needed him to testify against his brother, so he pled 448 00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:09,880 Speaker 1: guilty to a felony and received no jail time, Which 449 00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:16,000 Speaker 1: is interesting because I've often at this point heard Matt 450 00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:22,080 Speaker 1: Murphy frame Tim Wazniak as just another victim of Dan Wasniak, 451 00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:26,560 Speaker 1: just like Sam Hare and Julie Kibibishi, and I find 452 00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:30,520 Speaker 1: that to be disturbing. It makes me sick to hear 453 00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:34,400 Speaker 1: that if Jake and I would have just gone down 454 00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:38,159 Speaker 1: to Sam's apartment when we saw his car pooling, that 455 00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:42,760 Speaker 1: would have changed everything. If if we had just gone 456 00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:45,560 Speaker 1: down there, knowing now what they were doing and why 457 00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:50,119 Speaker 1: they were there, it makes me sick. It's easy to 458 00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:56,400 Speaker 1: say in hindsight, it's uh it you do wonder. Of course, 459 00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:59,879 Speaker 1: you play these things in your mind, but there was 460 00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:03,320 Speaker 1: at that point nothing that could have been done. Both 461 00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:07,280 Speaker 1: your friends were already gone, and maybe it would have 462 00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:13,280 Speaker 1: it would have bolstered the case against Tim Wazniak. Yeah, 463 00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:18,200 Speaker 1: it's sad. I just I think about dam and Julie 464 00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:20,800 Speaker 1: every day. I mean, I still reach out to Steve 465 00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:25,159 Speaker 1: and Raquel, and I'm always thinking about them, and I 466 00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:28,760 Speaker 1: just wish that there could have been some signs or 467 00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:31,200 Speaker 1: something that we could have done to prevent this, because 468 00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:36,960 Speaker 1: it's just it's heartbreaking. I mean, those two families lost 469 00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:41,640 Speaker 1: their children, and Stephen Roquel lost their only son because 470 00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:48,000 Speaker 1: of money and greed and evil. It's just it's I 471 00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:53,760 Speaker 1: I don't know, it's heartbreaking, heartbreaking. Julie so happy, beautiful dancer, 472 00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:58,560 Speaker 1: beautiful heart, just the sweetest thing. And she's just coming 473 00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:00,560 Speaker 1: over to be a good friend to Sam. She sought 474 00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:05,360 Speaker 1: her tiara on from her brother's engagement and she's going 475 00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:07,239 Speaker 1: over to Sam's apartment to be a good friend and 476 00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:12,400 Speaker 1: she's murdered. It's I don't I don't understand it. And 477 00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:16,520 Speaker 1: it's all for her to be a prop in some sick, 478 00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:23,280 Speaker 1: twisted murder mystery plan that they concocted so that they 479 00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:26,880 Speaker 1: can go get a few bucks that they didn't earn 480 00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:32,480 Speaker 1: so they can have a nice cruise. Yeah, it really 481 00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:37,880 Speaker 1: is disgusting. One of the saddest tales, it is. And 482 00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:41,920 Speaker 1: the Hairs are the most amazing people. I mean, Steve 483 00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:45,280 Speaker 1: Hair has such a huge heart, He's so strong and 484 00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:48,240 Speaker 1: he's been a great support to Sam's friends, even though 485 00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:52,640 Speaker 1: he's dealing with his own grief and lost and yeah, 486 00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:56,680 Speaker 1: he's still of course, he's dedicated to getting justice for 487 00:29:56,760 --> 00:30:00,200 Speaker 1: his son in every way as we all are. But 488 00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:05,440 Speaker 1: I mean, his his strength is amazing. I mean him 489 00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:08,680 Speaker 1: and Rock Help both are just amazing people. And it's 490 00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:13,120 Speaker 1: just so unfair and heartbreaking that this happened to those people. 491 00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:17,000 Speaker 1: They're the last people to deserve that. And all of 492 00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:19,920 Speaker 1: Sam's friends and all of you that check in with 493 00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:22,800 Speaker 1: them all the time means so much to them. They 494 00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:25,520 Speaker 1: don't feel alone when they hear from from all of 495 00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:28,280 Speaker 1: you at different points in your life. So keep doing 496 00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:31,200 Speaker 1: what you're doing, because it really does matter to them. 497 00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:34,760 Speaker 1: And I just I'm always so amazed, particularly with Steve, 498 00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:39,160 Speaker 1: that he can maintain that sense of humor and and 499 00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:42,760 Speaker 1: make me laugh when we're talking about the most horrific 500 00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:47,880 Speaker 1: of of tragedies in his life, like took away his life, 501 00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:51,720 Speaker 1: and yet he still finds a sense a reason to laugh. 502 00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:56,320 Speaker 1: I just he inspires me, right, He just continues to 503 00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:58,760 Speaker 1: find joy in lines in any way that he can. 504 00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:02,000 Speaker 1: And it's like I said, it's inspiring. If he can 505 00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:05,200 Speaker 1: survive that and get through that and continue living life 506 00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:08,880 Speaker 1: with the attitude that he has, nothing can get in 507 00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:12,520 Speaker 1: the way of anybody else's happiness and joy in their 508 00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:17,080 Speaker 1: life were so blessed. And and Steve continues to see 509 00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:20,680 Speaker 1: himself as blessed regardless of what happened to him and 510 00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:25,120 Speaker 1: his family literally ripped apart by someone so evil, but 511 00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:28,160 Speaker 1: he still has the joy in his life. And it's 512 00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:32,760 Speaker 1: just it's amazing, it really is. It is. Indeed, Actually, 513 00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:36,040 Speaker 1: do you have anything more that you would like listeners 514 00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:41,200 Speaker 1: to know about the Rachel Buffett you met so briefly 515 00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:47,760 Speaker 1: way back in Yeah. I mean, I'm sure that some 516 00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:51,000 Speaker 1: of the listeners have probably seen the Doctor Phil episode 517 00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:53,440 Speaker 1: with Rachel Buffett, and I'm sure a lot of people 518 00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:57,640 Speaker 1: probably believed her. But let me tell you from personal experience, 519 00:31:57,680 --> 00:31:59,240 Speaker 1: you can't believe a word that comes out of that 520 00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:03,480 Speaker 1: girl's mouth. Everything she says is a lie. It's all 521 00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:07,040 Speaker 1: staged and scripted for her own benefit. And I just 522 00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:11,320 Speaker 1: I I hope we get justice. I mean, she needs 523 00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:13,440 Speaker 1: to be locked up just like Dan. She's just as 524 00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:16,520 Speaker 1: much of an animal as he is. And I just 525 00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:18,760 Speaker 1: I hope we get justice because she deserves to be 526 00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:21,480 Speaker 1: behind bars for the rest of her life. In my opinion, 527 00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:28,080 Speaker 1: thank you so much, Ashley for your time and your insights. Absolutely, 528 00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:33,400 Speaker 1: I appreciate it and best of luck to you. Thank 529 00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:35,840 Speaker 1: you so much when it was great talking to you. 530 00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:51,240 Speaker 1: You have a wonderful day. You two good vife. Next 531 00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:55,360 Speaker 1: up on Sleuth, we interview Kristin Crane, who was formerly 532 00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:59,000 Speaker 1: Kristen Burgo, Moscow and went to college with Rachel and 533 00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:00,920 Speaker 1: as quite a few story raised to tell us about 534 00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:08,800 Speaker 1: her experience performing alongside her in their school theater. If 535 00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:11,800 Speaker 1: you enjoyed this episode of Sleuth, share it with a 536 00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:14,800 Speaker 1: friend and be sure to leave a rating or a review. 537 00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:18,960 Speaker 1: Follow Sleuth on I Heart Radio or subscribe wherever you 538 00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:22,120 Speaker 1: listen to podcasts so that you never miss an episode