WEBVTT - Pino Palladino and Blake Mills 0:00:15.436 --> 0:00:23.956 Pushkin. Pino Palladino and Blake Mills are renowned session musicians 0:00:24.156 --> 0:00:28.156 who recently collaborated on their own album, Notes with Attachments. 0:00:28.556 --> 0:00:33.916 It's an experimental, jazz leaning project that blue Rick Rubin's mind. 0:00:34.436 --> 0:00:36.836 Pino Palladino is a bass player who has played on 0:00:36.876 --> 0:00:40.076 records with everyone from DeAngelo to The Who to Adele. 0:00:40.956 --> 0:00:43.596 Guitarist Blake Mills co founded the band DAWs in two 0:00:43.636 --> 0:00:46.276 thousand and five and has gone on to release critically 0:00:46.276 --> 0:00:49.596 acclaimed solo albums himself and has also produced records for 0:00:49.596 --> 0:00:54.436 the Alabama Shakes, John Legend and Fiona Apple. Three years ago, 0:00:54.676 --> 0:00:57.276 Pino and Blake started working on what would become Notes 0:00:57.436 --> 0:01:01.756 with Attachments. The album features other incredible session musicians like 0:01:01.836 --> 0:01:05.556 drummer Chris Daddy Dave and sax player Marcus Drickland, and 0:01:05.636 --> 0:01:09.436 it pulls from influences as diverse as West African Huban 0:01:09.716 --> 0:01:13.476 and even English folk music. Rick talks first with Pino 0:01:13.556 --> 0:01:17.156 Palladino on today's episode about those wide array of influences 0:01:17.356 --> 0:01:19.476 and how hearing motown music because a young boy in 0:01:19.516 --> 0:01:23.236 Wales changed his life. Pino also walks us through his 0:01:23.276 --> 0:01:27.996 evolution to becoming one of the most in demand session players. Later, 0:01:28.076 --> 0:01:31.196 Blake Mills joins the conversation to talk about collaborating with 0:01:31.236 --> 0:01:34.156 Pino and why he feels bad for the toy musicians 0:01:34.276 --> 0:01:36.636 who have to play his bass parts on the road. 0:01:40.636 --> 0:01:43.316 This is broken record liner notes for the digital age. 0:01:43.516 --> 0:01:51.716 I'm justin Richmond. Here's Rick Rubin with Pino Palladino and 0:01:51.796 --> 0:01:55.396 Blake Mills. I want to start by saying the album 0:01:55.436 --> 0:01:58.836 is magnificent. It made me feel like I was hearing 0:01:58.916 --> 0:02:03.556 something from another time. And when I say from another time, 0:02:03.716 --> 0:02:06.516 it didn't feel like it could have been made at 0:02:06.556 --> 0:02:10.516 any other time but now. But it had the gravitas 0:02:10.556 --> 0:02:13.556 of a classic album that I think of as like, 0:02:13.636 --> 0:02:17.196 you know, like a Miles Davis album. It really touched 0:02:17.196 --> 0:02:21.356 me and blew my mind that it's possible to make 0:02:21.396 --> 0:02:25.436 an album like this today. Wow. Right, that's amazing and wow, 0:02:25.476 --> 0:02:30.036 I'm so I'm just so pleased that that has had 0:02:30.076 --> 0:02:31.916 an impact on you like that that you would say 0:02:31.956 --> 0:02:35.276 something like that, that's incredible. Flip me out. Is this 0:02:35.556 --> 0:02:38.316 I don't know, is this your first quote unquote solo 0:02:38.356 --> 0:02:41.996 album or solo album with a friend? Yes, yeah, both 0:02:41.996 --> 0:02:45.316 of those things either and both yes. It is has 0:02:45.356 --> 0:02:47.756 the material been written over time or did it all 0:02:47.796 --> 0:02:51.276 come together specifically for this project. No, there are a 0:02:51.276 --> 0:02:53.036 lot of ideas that I've been carrying for quite a 0:02:53.116 --> 0:02:55.356 while with a view to doing something with them at 0:02:55.356 --> 0:02:59.276 some stage. I'm being a librun never getting round to it, 0:02:59.316 --> 0:03:02.916 you know, forty years later, and I think it's it's 0:03:02.956 --> 0:03:06.396 serendipiculous too, just the way things came together with me. 0:03:06.636 --> 0:03:09.116 I'm meeting Blake beautiful, Yeah, And the more we took 0:03:09.116 --> 0:03:11.236 about it, the more it seemed like this could be 0:03:11.316 --> 0:03:14.596 something really exciting too, you know, for me to bring 0:03:14.596 --> 0:03:18.276 out my first project on Yeah, fantastic. Tell me about 0:03:18.716 --> 0:03:21.516 I mean, we've hung out a bit and I've got 0:03:21.516 --> 0:03:24.236 to see you play in the studio, absolutely, But I 0:03:24.316 --> 0:03:28.036 know very little about your history other than certain things 0:03:28.076 --> 0:03:30.516 you know, certain bands you played with. But tell me 0:03:30.596 --> 0:03:36.476 from the beginning, what's your first experience of music in life? Wow? Yeah, 0:03:36.516 --> 0:03:40.476 that would have been in Catholic school, just learning hymns. 0:03:40.556 --> 0:03:42.796 And if I think back a long way, I remember 0:03:43.756 --> 0:03:45.956 one of the first things that really hit me musically 0:03:46.116 --> 0:03:49.756 was learning the song inch one, which is the kind 0:03:49.756 --> 0:03:52.756 of a desk cant that we did in my school. 0:03:52.796 --> 0:03:54.556 When I was about eight or lone years old when 0:03:54.596 --> 0:03:57.276 I just remember being really excited by the sound of 0:03:57.316 --> 0:04:01.076 that cadence where one thing sings, you know, the melody, 0:04:01.116 --> 0:04:04.276 and then the desk cant comes in later and adds 0:04:04.276 --> 0:04:08.316 a harmony too beautiful. What was your first instrument the 0:04:08.396 --> 0:04:12.836 Spanish guitar, Spanish guitar, nylon spring guitar exactly, yes, and 0:04:13.396 --> 0:04:17.316 that again comes from from school. We had a priest 0:04:17.396 --> 0:04:21.076 in school called Father Delaney, who was a real fantastic character, 0:04:21.156 --> 0:04:24.356 old Irish priest, actually not all young at the time, 0:04:24.716 --> 0:04:26.956 but yeah, he used to do these guitar lessons in 0:04:26.996 --> 0:04:29.236 school and it was an opportunity to get our classes 0:04:29.556 --> 0:04:34.596 early sometimes and we would learn the chords to hymns 0:04:34.796 --> 0:04:37.756 and sort of Ralph McTell songs that were popular back 0:04:37.796 --> 0:04:41.196 in those days. Fantastic, yeah, and then play them in 0:04:41.236 --> 0:04:44.436 folk masses, like Catholic folk masses. So in a way 0:04:44.796 --> 0:04:48.036 it started for me in church and was it that's 0:04:48.076 --> 0:04:51.196 always a fingerpicking style, is that correct? Yeah? Or mostly 0:04:51.236 --> 0:04:53.396 strumming like cowboy chords. And then I had a couple 0:04:53.436 --> 0:04:55.996 of Spanish guitar lessons, like maybe for a month or something. 0:04:56.116 --> 0:04:59.076 My mom paid for a few Spanish guitar lessons and 0:04:59.676 --> 0:05:02.276 I got some basic technique from that and learned a 0:05:02.276 --> 0:05:06.076 few pieces and really just went on from there. What 0:05:06.156 --> 0:05:09.876 was the first popular music that really spoke to I 0:05:09.916 --> 0:05:15.116 would have to say Motown Studio wonder my Sherryan Moore 0:05:16.716 --> 0:05:19.156 around about that year where I was really starting to 0:05:19.236 --> 0:05:23.356 hear music and really loved it. And then I got 0:05:23.436 --> 0:05:26.476 opportunity at one point with the school trip, we went 0:05:26.556 --> 0:05:31.556 to a skating ring outside of Cardiff when I was 0:05:31.596 --> 0:05:34.836 born in Wales, and they were playing Motown music really 0:05:34.916 --> 0:05:37.396 loud through the PA and that's the first time I 0:05:37.476 --> 0:05:40.556 remember really thinking whatever was going on down but I 0:05:40.556 --> 0:05:42.636 didn't even know it was bass guitar, but I just 0:05:42.836 --> 0:05:46.316 love what was happening, So I remember that vividly. And 0:05:46.316 --> 0:05:48.396 then when when was the first time he picked up 0:05:48.396 --> 0:05:51.516 a bass? I actually started on guitar, as I said, 0:05:51.516 --> 0:05:54.316 and didn't play bass till I was about seventeen. I 0:05:54.396 --> 0:05:58.076 started I was playing out in my first band. I 0:05:58.236 --> 0:06:01.476 kept on playing bass players bass. I really enjoyed playing it. 0:06:01.556 --> 0:06:04.916 He had a seventies jazz bass. Over time just realized 0:06:04.956 --> 0:06:07.396 that that was probably why I should be playing. Tell 0:06:07.396 --> 0:06:10.436 me about the band, did you do covers. Yeah, absolutely, yeah, 0:06:10.636 --> 0:06:14.636 rock and roll, Huchiku Johnny went to led Zeppelin, Beatles, 0:06:15.076 --> 0:06:18.956 Wishbone ash amazing. What would you call your first professional 0:06:19.036 --> 0:06:21.556 job in music. I don't remember getting paid for any 0:06:21.556 --> 0:06:23.196 of the gigs we did in the cover bands. But 0:06:24.396 --> 0:06:27.796 we went to Germany with my first band, and long 0:06:27.876 --> 0:06:29.756 story short, when we got there, we found out we 0:06:29.796 --> 0:06:31.876 didn't have a gig, so we drove all the way 0:06:31.876 --> 0:06:35.596 to Munich and sort of survived there for a month 0:06:35.676 --> 0:06:38.756 or so. You know, we just won weeks with the work, 0:06:39.356 --> 0:06:42.676 so all that that was my first really official professional gig. 0:06:43.196 --> 0:06:45.116 I mean, we just certainly didn't make any money, and 0:06:45.156 --> 0:06:48.516 we all got repatriated by the by the console as well. 0:06:48.556 --> 0:06:51.996 We got chucked out of Germany. It wasn't that successful. 0:06:52.596 --> 0:06:54.716 What's the first time you played on the recording? I 0:06:54.836 --> 0:06:57.396 think back. It was actually a show band that my 0:06:57.476 --> 0:07:00.076 friend was playing with and they were recording at Rockfield 0:07:00.956 --> 0:07:03.716 in Wales, and I just went down down there to 0:07:03.796 --> 0:07:06.636 sort of hang with my friend who was the keyboard player, 0:07:07.836 --> 0:07:12.236 and before I knew playing bass on this track, and 0:07:12.516 --> 0:07:14.916 that's the first time I remember actually having headphones on 0:07:14.956 --> 0:07:18.196 in the studio and thinking, wow, I really liked this, 0:07:18.196 --> 0:07:20.996 this is fun. But did you build your life as 0:07:21.036 --> 0:07:25.596 a session player in the UK? First? I never thought 0:07:25.596 --> 0:07:27.196 of being a session player. I just wanted to be 0:07:27.236 --> 0:07:30.956 in a band. But as I played with I had 0:07:30.996 --> 0:07:34.756 more interaction with different musicians. I started to think about, 0:07:34.796 --> 0:07:36.356 you know, what it would be like to just play 0:07:36.356 --> 0:07:38.676 on different records, and it just seemed like such a 0:07:38.716 --> 0:07:40.956 cool thing to do. And then before you know it, 0:07:40.956 --> 0:07:44.196 did you become a session player? Did you ever find 0:07:44.956 --> 0:07:47.516 a band where it felt like this is my band 0:07:47.556 --> 0:07:49.836 and this is what we're going to do you No, 0:07:50.316 --> 0:07:53.276 but there did come a point where I thought, you know, 0:07:53.356 --> 0:07:57.636 my strength is being freelance and being able to go 0:07:57.716 --> 0:08:00.956 into different projects with different genres, and I really start 0:08:01.036 --> 0:08:06.356 to enjoy the interaction with different musicians and different forms 0:08:06.356 --> 0:08:09.476 of music. The first time I heard your name was 0:08:10.036 --> 0:08:13.196 as it related to the Who. What happened before the 0:08:13.236 --> 0:08:17.036 Who that allowed you to end up playing with the Who? Well, 0:08:17.076 --> 0:08:21.676 in the early eighties, this is going back quite a way. 0:08:21.716 --> 0:08:23.836 I had a call from a friend of mine, Chris Slade, 0:08:23.836 --> 0:08:27.836 who was playing drums with Gary Human, Great druma and 0:08:27.996 --> 0:08:31.196 proper Welshman. So he founded me up and said, look, 0:08:31.196 --> 0:08:33.236 I'm in the studio with Gary Numan and he's looking 0:08:33.236 --> 0:08:36.196 for a frantless bass player. Chris knew that I had 0:08:36.196 --> 0:08:37.796 a friendless, so I ended up going down to the 0:08:37.876 --> 0:08:40.636 studio and working with Gary and working on an album 0:08:40.636 --> 0:08:44.516 called by Assassin, which really featured him. You know, he 0:08:44.596 --> 0:08:47.636 just gave me an open, open card, really and just said, 0:08:47.676 --> 0:08:49.596 whatever you want to play on this stuff, just you know, 0:08:49.636 --> 0:08:54.756 bring something. So moving along, that led to Paul Young, 0:08:55.156 --> 0:08:57.716 Paul Youngs producer at the time in the eighties Laurie 0:08:57.796 --> 0:09:00.276 Latham you know here in the record and thinking it 0:09:00.316 --> 0:09:01.796 would be cool to bring me in on some of 0:09:01.796 --> 0:09:05.556 the Paul Young stuff. So Paul Young again Fretless Space. 0:09:05.876 --> 0:09:09.316 The next major calling up was from Dave Gilmour out 0:09:09.356 --> 0:09:10.956 of the blue one day as I was in the rehearse, 0:09:10.996 --> 0:09:13.916 so I couldn't believe it, you know, they's followed me 0:09:14.036 --> 0:09:16.956 up such a huge Floyd fram from backing the day, 0:09:17.196 --> 0:09:20.236 and that led to me working on a Dave Gilmore album. 0:09:20.556 --> 0:09:23.356 He had written a song with Pete Townsend for that 0:09:23.476 --> 0:09:26.596 album and then Pete decided to do that same song 0:09:26.676 --> 0:09:30.436 on his album White City. So Dave recommended me to 0:09:30.556 --> 0:09:33.756 go in and play on this song. Amazing. Pete just 0:09:33.916 --> 0:09:36.636 threw this other song of me. He said, look, I've 0:09:36.636 --> 0:09:38.476 got this idea. I've been working with the song of 0:09:38.476 --> 0:09:41.396 Phillips and Dave Gilmore and it's not really a song yet, 0:09:41.436 --> 0:09:42.796 but would you want to have a play on it? 0:09:43.476 --> 0:09:46.076 And it turned out to be the song called give Blood. 0:09:46.276 --> 0:09:47.796 You know, I heard it and I was just I 0:09:47.836 --> 0:09:49.996 was so happy. I thought, you're gonna let him plant this. 0:09:50.116 --> 0:09:53.116 This is incredible. So I did my thing on that 0:09:53.196 --> 0:09:55.436 and me and Pete sort of hit it off that day, 0:09:55.476 --> 0:09:58.516 and that's really what led to my connection with the 0:09:58.556 --> 0:10:02.116 who incredible and the Gilmore side of it I didn't know, 0:10:02.156 --> 0:10:04.276 and that's amazing. How did Dave Filmore hear about you 0:10:05.196 --> 0:10:09.236 from my playing on the Paul Young records? Wow? The 0:10:09.316 --> 0:10:11.476 friendless bass was sort of featured on one song in 0:10:11.516 --> 0:10:14.436 particular co Wherever Like My Hat, which is a cover 0:10:14.516 --> 0:10:16.356 of a mob and gay b side that we sort 0:10:16.356 --> 0:10:18.916 of worked up. The bass ended up being the sort 0:10:18.916 --> 0:10:22.236 of vocal point other than the voice obviously, so that 0:10:22.276 --> 0:10:25.116 brought up a lot of attention to play. It's funny 0:10:25.156 --> 0:10:29.316 when you hear something remarkable. I can remember a record 0:10:29.316 --> 0:10:32.756 producer friend playing a song for me and it was 0:10:32.796 --> 0:10:35.596 I think it was a cover song and it got 0:10:35.596 --> 0:10:38.996 to the guitar solo, and all I needed to know 0:10:39.076 --> 0:10:41.276 in that moment was who's playing a guitar solo? Now, 0:10:41.356 --> 0:10:44.116 for me, it's an odd question in a cover song, 0:10:44.476 --> 0:10:47.036 I wouldn't normally ask. I wouldn't normally even I would 0:10:47.036 --> 0:10:50.276 probably if it's a cover song, I would probably tune 0:10:50.316 --> 0:10:52.996 out for a guitar solo, right, do you know what 0:10:53.036 --> 0:10:56.676 I'm saying? But in this case, I tuned in. It's 0:10:56.716 --> 0:10:58.956 like who is that? And that's how I got to 0:10:58.996 --> 0:11:01.756 meet Blake. Amazing, there you go. It can just be 0:11:01.796 --> 0:11:05.996 a spark. Sometimes it's it's there's something there that's like, 0:11:06.436 --> 0:11:09.436 I want to know more about this, whatever this is, 0:11:10.236 --> 0:11:12.796 need to know more. Again, the first time I heard 0:11:12.836 --> 0:11:16.796 your name was in relation to the who. The time 0:11:16.796 --> 0:11:20.636 that I learned who you were actually was based on Voodoo, 0:11:20.796 --> 0:11:24.436 which was, you know, maybe my favorite album and wanting 0:11:24.476 --> 0:11:26.996 to know how did this happen? Who played on this? 0:11:27.076 --> 0:11:30.276 And that's what led to our getting to work together 0:11:30.316 --> 0:11:34.676 some time? Though. Absolutely, it's amazing. It's amazing how that 0:11:34.716 --> 0:11:39.956 thing just translates, how it connects. Yeah, beyond Motown, what 0:11:40.036 --> 0:11:43.716 would you say influences on your style. Where would they 0:11:43.716 --> 0:11:48.156 come from? Well, in Cardiff, where I come from, it's 0:11:48.236 --> 0:11:51.116 quite similar to Liverpool. It's a docks area, so there's 0:11:51.156 --> 0:11:54.036 a lot of different nationalities. I had some friends that 0:11:54.156 --> 0:11:56.796 live down on the Bay and there were clubs down 0:11:56.836 --> 0:12:01.436 there that played a lot of American funk, reggae from Jamaica, 0:12:01.836 --> 0:12:04.836 a lot of that stuff and some African musications, and 0:12:04.916 --> 0:12:08.836 so that was hugely influential to the time. A lot 0:12:08.796 --> 0:12:12.356 of king jazz, folk, soul, reggae, lottle reggae music in 0:12:12.396 --> 0:12:15.156 the mid to late seventies. And you know, I had 0:12:15.156 --> 0:12:18.476 some pretty pretty tough lessons working with some reggae musicians, 0:12:18.476 --> 0:12:21.876 some older guys down there, and also in London. You know, 0:12:21.916 --> 0:12:23.956 I was learning fusion to play all sorts of different 0:12:23.956 --> 0:12:26.156 things that tom and was playing way too many notes, 0:12:26.196 --> 0:12:29.116 and these guys would sometimes be in the studio and 0:12:29.156 --> 0:12:32.476 they would tap out the beat and sing the sort 0:12:32.476 --> 0:12:35.076 of bassline to me on the back of my shoulder, 0:12:35.156 --> 0:12:37.516 like hard, you know, like boom boom boom, boom boom, 0:12:38.276 --> 0:12:41.556 really drilling it into me. So that really helped me 0:12:41.596 --> 0:12:43.876 with the economy, you know, a sense of economy and 0:12:43.876 --> 0:12:48.556 bass play he learned restraint. Yes. Absolutely, We're gonna take 0:12:48.556 --> 0:12:50.916 a quick break and then we'll be right back with more. 0:12:54.996 --> 0:12:57.596 We're back with more from Rick Rubin and Pinot Palladino. 0:12:58.076 --> 0:13:01.516 Guitarist Blake Mills also joins a conversation. Right, let's see 0:13:01.516 --> 0:13:04.756 the album this morning. Talk to me about the arrangements. 0:13:04.756 --> 0:13:07.996 Who did the arrangements? And are all of the instruments 0:13:07.996 --> 0:13:12.556 that sound like instrum mens actual instruments? Yeah, yeah, I 0:13:12.596 --> 0:13:15.116 mean in terms of the arrangements, so I think again, 0:13:15.196 --> 0:13:17.756 Me and Blake pretty much flesh those out between us 0:13:17.996 --> 0:13:21.116 over a period of time and with the sounds of 0:13:21.116 --> 0:13:23.316 the instruments. Yeah, there's a lot of real instruments on 0:13:23.396 --> 0:13:28.596 the Great I'm definitely curious just because it all sounds magnificent. 0:13:29.036 --> 0:13:30.716 There are a couple of moments where it felt like 0:13:30.716 --> 0:13:33.756 it went from an organic what seemed like a clearly 0:13:33.836 --> 0:13:37.676 organic place to a non organic place, and it just 0:13:37.836 --> 0:13:40.156 sucks me in and makes me want to listen more. 0:13:40.236 --> 0:13:44.196 You know, it's just interesting, it's beautiful, felt really tastefully done. Well, 0:13:44.236 --> 0:13:46.676 that's beautiful and post. Me and Blake really wanted these 0:13:46.676 --> 0:13:49.996 songs to envelop you and just allow you to go 0:13:50.236 --> 0:13:54.156 into a journey if you allow it, and you know, 0:13:54.196 --> 0:13:56.516 I feel, I feel really happy with the way that 0:13:56.556 --> 0:13:59.316 the songs are turned out. So what would be an 0:13:59.316 --> 0:14:02.156 example of what you brought like if you if you'd 0:14:02.236 --> 0:14:06.796 had collected material for the project, in what form would 0:14:06.796 --> 0:14:10.796 it exist before you started with? How fleshed out was 0:14:10.836 --> 0:14:14.436 it in your mind? Quite a few of the ideas 0:14:14.796 --> 0:14:18.196 actually originated with myself and Chris Dave at my home 0:14:18.236 --> 0:14:22.156 in London. And that's an interesting story too, because the 0:14:22.196 --> 0:14:25.636 first time I actually physically met Chris was at Shangri 0:14:25.716 --> 0:14:28.396 La because you brought us together for a Dell's album. 0:14:28.476 --> 0:14:31.996 So this is a nice full circle, you know, talking 0:14:32.036 --> 0:14:34.236 to you now about the record. We hit it off 0:14:34.236 --> 0:14:36.876 from that day we met and continued to kind of 0:14:36.916 --> 0:14:39.396 hang and work on different things together, and whenever we 0:14:39.436 --> 0:14:42.156 were together, we would put down music in some way, 0:14:42.236 --> 0:14:45.356 whether it's at my house or at a studio in 0:14:45.436 --> 0:14:47.716 New York, if we were both in New York or LA. 0:14:47.796 --> 0:14:49.676 And so quite a few of those I would say 0:14:49.716 --> 0:14:51.996 three or four of those ideas started off as the 0:14:52.036 --> 0:14:54.316 stuff that me and Chris had worked on together, with 0:14:54.396 --> 0:14:57.516 me playing guitar and bass and Chris playing percussion. Occasionally 0:14:57.516 --> 0:15:02.076 adding the odd keyboard. Other things were like fully fleshed 0:15:02.076 --> 0:15:05.156 out tunes, as one tune in particular called Man from Molise, 0:15:06.196 --> 0:15:08.396 and that was a tune that I recorded in New 0:15:08.476 --> 0:15:12.236 York with some amazing Cuban musicians and it was like 0:15:12.276 --> 0:15:16.956 a nine minute arrangement with bridges and solos and all 0:15:16.996 --> 0:15:19.876 sorts of stuff, and so that was that was a 0:15:19.916 --> 0:15:23.276 different form that one. I played to Blake and he 0:15:23.756 --> 0:15:26.956 loved it. But he said, how about if we slowed 0:15:26.996 --> 0:15:30.356 it down? And I thought, okay, we'll slowed it down 0:15:30.356 --> 0:15:31.956 a couple of bits a minute, that would be great, 0:15:32.556 --> 0:15:35.556 but he meant half speed, so he really slowed it down. 0:15:35.596 --> 0:15:38.116 So you can imagine, you know, you have a song 0:15:38.196 --> 0:15:39.876 that's kind of grouping in a certain way, and then 0:15:39.916 --> 0:15:41.596 you take it down to half speed. It's like, that's 0:15:41.796 --> 0:15:44.556 that's a bit of a shot. But ultimately I was. 0:15:44.596 --> 0:15:49.436 I was open to it because of his daring, experimental 0:15:49.516 --> 0:15:53.436 kind of nature, and it tuned into something completely different 0:15:53.596 --> 0:15:57.516 and we just got right into it. And I mean, yeah, 0:15:57.956 --> 0:16:00.876 we're both pretty sick like that, and Blake those decals 0:16:00.916 --> 0:16:03.116 we need to go down a rabbit hole and fight 0:16:03.156 --> 0:16:05.476 our way out, you know, if we need to. I mean, 0:16:05.516 --> 0:16:08.196 you play with arguably the best drummers in the world 0:16:08.236 --> 0:16:11.316 on a regular basis. Tell me about what makes Chris 0:16:11.356 --> 0:16:15.236 Dave Chris Dave. I mean, he's just extravagantly gifted in 0:16:15.316 --> 0:16:18.396 terms of what he knows physically well. He can play 0:16:18.436 --> 0:16:22.876 at the same time, various rhythms and and just incredible chops. 0:16:23.196 --> 0:16:25.716 But it isn't even that. I mean, it's a creativity 0:16:25.876 --> 0:16:29.236 and the fact that you just what he's going to play. 0:16:29.436 --> 0:16:32.716 He has amazing instincts. He'll listen to a song. You 0:16:32.756 --> 0:16:35.316 know you will, right, He'll listen to a song and 0:16:35.316 --> 0:16:38.116 he might say, let me hear that again. By the 0:16:38.156 --> 0:16:41.236 time he's going into play, he's got it all worked 0:16:41.236 --> 0:16:44.196 out in his head in a way, or if he hasn't, 0:16:44.196 --> 0:16:50.916 whatever happens is usually correct and new and vibrant. It's 0:16:50.996 --> 0:16:53.476 just so fresh. One of the things that I find 0:16:53.516 --> 0:16:56.876 interesting with Chris is that regardless of what he plays, 0:16:56.956 --> 0:17:00.236 regardless of how simple and straightforward the thing he might 0:17:00.396 --> 0:17:03.116 choose to play, is you want to listen to it. 0:17:03.156 --> 0:17:06.796 Like it the feel he could play boom cha, boom cha, 0:17:07.036 --> 0:17:10.836 boom boom cha, and you want to listen to it. 0:17:11.316 --> 0:17:13.916 And anyone else plays the same beat and you tune 0:17:13.916 --> 0:17:18.556 out and it's just there's something there, there's something. It's 0:17:18.596 --> 0:17:23.836 always groovy and it's always interesting, regardless of how fancied. 0:17:23.916 --> 0:17:26.516 It doesn't have to be fancy for it to be 0:17:26.596 --> 0:17:30.396 compelling when he's playing. Yeah, I agree with it. It's 0:17:30.516 --> 0:17:34.716 very engaging. Listen. Where in the project did you decide 0:17:35.316 --> 0:17:39.556 this is going to be a coproject with Blake? Pretty 0:17:39.596 --> 0:17:44.036 early on? Actually, I think probably like two songs in. 0:17:45.076 --> 0:17:46.756 I think it goned on us at the same time, 0:17:46.796 --> 0:17:49.156 because I remember we had a we decided to meet 0:17:49.236 --> 0:17:51.956 up my place here in La and said out side 0:17:51.996 --> 0:17:54.396 and had a chat, and yeah, we were both on 0:17:54.436 --> 0:17:57.596 the same page. It just it seemslutely the way to 0:17:57.636 --> 0:18:00.396 go and the way I see it is, although it's 0:18:00.436 --> 0:18:03.956 my music and most of the ideas originate from me, 0:18:04.996 --> 0:18:08.276 you know, presenting them to Blake and having his reaction 0:18:08.396 --> 0:18:11.516 to them just took it in such an interesting direction. 0:18:11.716 --> 0:18:15.916 If it just absolutely was perfect to be a collaboration, 0:18:16.076 --> 0:18:20.116 and the guitar work on it is spectacular and unexpected 0:18:20.116 --> 0:18:28.636 and spectacular beautiful. A lot of it's probably Pino. I mean, 0:18:28.676 --> 0:18:31.596 the thing is, like we were just talking about this recently. 0:18:31.876 --> 0:18:35.556 The My approach to playing guitar on the record was 0:18:35.636 --> 0:18:39.716 so informed by getting to learn more and more about 0:18:39.996 --> 0:18:44.276 Pino's musicianship, you know, as a bass player, as a ranger, 0:18:44.836 --> 0:18:49.236 a writer like I started to become aware of note 0:18:49.316 --> 0:18:54.276 length and how much character there is in that. With him, 0:18:54.756 --> 0:18:56.996 it really was kind of trying to be an extension 0:18:57.036 --> 0:19:02.356 of of his musical personality. Would the tracks typically start 0:19:02.436 --> 0:19:09.116 with the three of YouTube and Chris playing together? No? Actually, never, never? Well, yeah, 0:19:09.716 --> 0:19:11.596 some of the ideas, as I mentioned, really a stamp 0:19:11.716 --> 0:19:15.196 from ideas of me and Chris had the prerecorded I 0:19:15.316 --> 0:19:19.116 think survibes, and then we would sometimes break them down 0:19:19.156 --> 0:19:21.756 in the studio in terms of maybe not using all 0:19:21.836 --> 0:19:24.516 the stuff that we recorded or all the parts of 0:19:24.516 --> 0:19:28.156 the drum kit. But from there was there more material 0:19:28.236 --> 0:19:30.396 that didn't make the record. Yeah, I mean, there are 0:19:30.396 --> 0:19:33.636 a lot more ideas hanging about. I suppose we arrived 0:19:33.676 --> 0:19:36.396 at the eight songs on the album, and for a 0:19:36.436 --> 0:19:39.876 while we wondered if that was enough. It's perfect here 0:19:39.916 --> 0:19:42.076 to me it is too, yeah, I mean, you know, 0:19:42.116 --> 0:19:46.156 I can't really listen to too many songs on a record, 0:19:46.276 --> 0:19:48.316 Like the first time it dawned on me that we 0:19:48.396 --> 0:19:51.276 actually had a record was when I got the opportunity 0:19:51.276 --> 0:19:54.396 to sequence to songs and just imagine what it would 0:19:54.436 --> 0:19:57.716 be like as a vinyl record. And then I'd finally 0:19:57.796 --> 0:19:59.596 let go of it and thought, yeah, it's a record now. 0:19:59.636 --> 0:20:03.276 It really feels like you've got enough here. Let's talk 0:20:03.316 --> 0:20:07.996 about jeff Ron. It started off with myself and Chris 0:20:08.076 --> 0:20:11.556 David my home in London and just jamming on some stuff. 0:20:11.676 --> 0:20:16.436 Chris came up with a beat that you hear featured 0:20:16.756 --> 0:20:18.396 three chords of the way into the song on there 0:20:19.996 --> 0:20:24.236 and I played just a baseline idea with it, and 0:20:24.516 --> 0:20:26.036 I went in the next day and listened to this 0:20:26.156 --> 0:20:28.076 beat and thought, wow, what a cool beat, and then 0:20:28.116 --> 0:20:30.396 I tried to write something new to it. So I 0:20:30.436 --> 0:20:33.156 wrote a chord sequence to It's like a four bar 0:20:33.316 --> 0:20:36.156 chord sequence with a sort of bridge idea, and so 0:20:36.236 --> 0:20:38.476 that's how that song lived for quite a while. It 0:20:38.516 --> 0:20:41.636 was just that, and we actually played it live a 0:20:41.676 --> 0:20:44.476 couple of times with Chris Stephen friends, and there is 0:20:44.516 --> 0:20:47.236 gigs that we did. It was the title was there 0:20:47.316 --> 0:20:50.516 just wrong? But I presented that to Blake and then 0:20:50.556 --> 0:20:53.396 we started MUK with chords a little bit. Still the 0:20:53.436 --> 0:20:56.796 same sequence, but just looking at putting some of the 0:20:56.836 --> 0:20:59.796 chords in a different order in the bridge and making 0:20:59.836 --> 0:21:02.276 it a seven bar bridge or nine bar whatever it is. 0:21:02.316 --> 0:21:05.396 I haven't counted it, and it didn't have a melody 0:21:06.236 --> 0:21:10.596 or any really fleshed out arrangement at that point. And 0:21:10.636 --> 0:21:14.196 then the first person we brought in was Larry, actually 0:21:14.476 --> 0:21:17.116 Larry Goldings. He came in and I had an idea 0:21:17.196 --> 0:21:21.076 for melody. We got Larry to play it on melotron 0:21:21.156 --> 0:21:23.836 with some sounds that I hear him playing that were 0:21:23.916 --> 0:21:27.836 like sampled Ben Webster horns or something like that, and 0:21:27.836 --> 0:21:30.396 then Blake had an idea to harmonize some of that stuff. 0:21:30.396 --> 0:21:33.196 So we just really was a very organic process. And 0:21:33.236 --> 0:21:38.196 then eventually Sam came in Sam Gandel and played on 0:21:38.276 --> 0:21:40.636 top of the melody and added all his sort of 0:21:40.636 --> 0:21:45.236 polyphonic stuff through the tune, just him playing chords on 0:21:45.276 --> 0:21:48.156 the sacks and just warming up some of his voices. 0:21:48.716 --> 0:21:51.556 The reason why this song is special to me on 0:21:51.836 --> 0:21:54.876 the record is because it's also the first time where 0:21:54.916 --> 0:21:58.836 we opened up this project together in the studio at 0:21:58.876 --> 0:22:02.436 sound City, which which I and my partner Tony Berg 0:22:02.476 --> 0:22:05.356 had the first time we got to open a song 0:22:07.316 --> 0:22:10.756 in the studio and and really kind of build things 0:22:10.796 --> 0:22:15.556 outside of the box, not from previous recordings. I think 0:22:15.596 --> 0:22:21.156 it actually sort of grew simultaneously. You know, we were 0:22:21.196 --> 0:22:24.156 listening back to what we were doing and kind of 0:22:24.196 --> 0:22:28.516 catching a vibe from you know, this, this other collaborator, 0:22:28.516 --> 0:22:32.316 which is the studio, you know, the space and the 0:22:32.356 --> 0:22:36.876 listening environment. I think that might be what feels so 0:22:36.916 --> 0:22:41.756 modern about it, is the intervention of the studio. Yeah, yeah, 0:22:41.796 --> 0:22:44.396 for sure. We're gonna take a quick break here and 0:22:44.436 --> 0:22:46.876 then we'll be back with more from Rick's conversation with 0:22:46.876 --> 0:22:53.716