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Speaker 1: Pushkin. Pino Palladino and Blake Mills are renowned session musicians

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Speaker 1: who recently collaborated on their own album, Notes with Attachments.

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Speaker 1: It's an experimental, jazz leaning project that blue Rick Rubin's mind.

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Speaker 1: Pino Palladino is a bass player who has played on

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Speaker 1: records with everyone from DeAngelo to The Who to Adele.

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Speaker 1: Guitarist Blake Mills co founded the band DAWs in two

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Speaker 1: thousand and five and has gone on to release critically

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Speaker 1: acclaimed solo albums himself and has also produced records for

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Speaker 1: the Alabama Shakes, John Legend and Fiona Apple. Three years ago,

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Speaker 1: Pino and Blake started working on what would become Notes

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Speaker 1: with Attachments. The album features other incredible session musicians like

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Speaker 1: drummer Chris Daddy Dave and sax player Marcus Drickland, and

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Speaker 1: it pulls from influences as diverse as West African Huban

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Speaker 1: and even English folk music. Rick talks first with Pino

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Speaker 1: Palladino on today's episode about those wide array of influences

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Speaker 1: and how hearing motown music because a young boy in

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Speaker 1: Wales changed his life. Pino also walks us through his

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Speaker 1: evolution to becoming one of the most in demand session players. Later,

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Speaker 1: Blake Mills joins the conversation to talk about collaborating with

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Speaker 1: Pino and why he feels bad for the toy musicians

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Speaker 1: who have to play his bass parts on the road.

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Speaker 1: This is broken record liner notes for the digital age.

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Speaker 1: I'm justin Richmond. Here's Rick Rubin with Pino Palladino and

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Speaker 1: Blake Mills. I want to start by saying the album

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Speaker 1: is magnificent. It made me feel like I was hearing

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Speaker 1: something from another time. And when I say from another time,

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Speaker 1: it didn't feel like it could have been made at

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Speaker 1: any other time but now. But it had the gravitas

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Speaker 1: of a classic album that I think of as like,

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Speaker 1: you know, like a Miles Davis album. It really touched

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Speaker 1: me and blew my mind that it's possible to make

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Speaker 1: an album like this today. Wow. Right, that's amazing and wow,

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Speaker 1: I'm so I'm just so pleased that that has had

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Speaker 1: an impact on you like that that you would say

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Speaker 1: something like that, that's incredible. Flip me out. Is this

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Speaker 1: I don't know, is this your first quote unquote solo

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Speaker 1: album or solo album with a friend? Yes, yeah, both

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Speaker 1: of those things either and both yes. It is has

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Speaker 1: the material been written over time or did it all

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Speaker 1: come together specifically for this project. No, there are a

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Speaker 1: lot of ideas that I've been carrying for quite a

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Speaker 1: while with a view to doing something with them at

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Speaker 1: some stage. I'm being a librun never getting round to it,

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Speaker 1: you know, forty years later, and I think it's it's

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Speaker 1: serendipiculous too, just the way things came together with me.

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Speaker 1: I'm meeting Blake beautiful, Yeah, And the more we took

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Speaker 1: about it, the more it seemed like this could be

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Speaker 1: something really exciting too, you know, for me to bring

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Speaker 1: out my first project on Yeah, fantastic. Tell me about

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Speaker 1: I mean, we've hung out a bit and I've got

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Speaker 1: to see you play in the studio, absolutely, But I

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Speaker 1: know very little about your history other than certain things

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Speaker 1: you know, certain bands you played with. But tell me

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Speaker 1: from the beginning, what's your first experience of music in life? Wow? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that would have been in Catholic school, just learning hymns.

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Speaker 1: And if I think back a long way, I remember

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Speaker 1: one of the first things that really hit me musically

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Speaker 1: was learning the song inch one, which is the kind

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Speaker 1: of a desk cant that we did in my school.

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Speaker 1: When I was about eight or lone years old when

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Speaker 1: I just remember being really excited by the sound of

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Speaker 1: that cadence where one thing sings, you know, the melody,

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Speaker 1: and then the desk cant comes in later and adds

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Speaker 1: a harmony too beautiful. What was your first instrument the

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Speaker 1: Spanish guitar, Spanish guitar, nylon spring guitar exactly, yes, and

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Speaker 1: that again comes from from school. We had a priest

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Speaker 1: in school called Father Delaney, who was a real fantastic character,

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Speaker 1: old Irish priest, actually not all young at the time,

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Speaker 1: but yeah, he used to do these guitar lessons in

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Speaker 1: school and it was an opportunity to get our classes

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Speaker 1: early sometimes and we would learn the chords to hymns

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Speaker 1: and sort of Ralph McTell songs that were popular back

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Speaker 1: in those days. Fantastic, yeah, and then play them in

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Speaker 1: folk masses, like Catholic folk masses. So in a way

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Speaker 1: it started for me in church and was it that's

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Speaker 1: always a fingerpicking style, is that correct? Yeah? Or mostly

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Speaker 1: strumming like cowboy chords. And then I had a couple

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Speaker 1: of Spanish guitar lessons, like maybe for a month or something.

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Speaker 1: My mom paid for a few Spanish guitar lessons and

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Speaker 1: I got some basic technique from that and learned a

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Speaker 1: few pieces and really just went on from there. What

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Speaker 1: was the first popular music that really spoke to I

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Speaker 1: would have to say Motown Studio wonder my Sherryan Moore

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Speaker 1: around about that year where I was really starting to

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Speaker 1: hear music and really loved it. And then I got

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Speaker 1: opportunity at one point with the school trip, we went

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Speaker 1: to a skating ring outside of Cardiff when I was

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Speaker 1: born in Wales, and they were playing Motown music really

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Speaker 1: loud through the PA and that's the first time I

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Speaker 1: remember really thinking whatever was going on down but I

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Speaker 1: didn't even know it was bass guitar, but I just

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Speaker 1: love what was happening, So I remember that vividly. And

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Speaker 1: then when when was the first time he picked up

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Speaker 1: a bass? I actually started on guitar, as I said,

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Speaker 1: and didn't play bass till I was about seventeen. I

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Speaker 1: started I was playing out in my first band. I

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Speaker 1: kept on playing bass players bass. I really enjoyed playing it.

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Speaker 1: He had a seventies jazz bass. Over time just realized

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Speaker 1: that that was probably why I should be playing. Tell

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Speaker 1: me about the band, did you do covers. Yeah, absolutely, yeah,

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Speaker 1: rock and roll, Huchiku Johnny went to led Zeppelin, Beatles,

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Speaker 1: Wishbone ash amazing. What would you call your first professional

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Speaker 1: job in music. I don't remember getting paid for any

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Speaker 1: of the gigs we did in the cover bands. But

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Speaker 1: we went to Germany with my first band, and long

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Speaker 1: story short, when we got there, we found out we

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Speaker 1: didn't have a gig, so we drove all the way

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Speaker 1: to Munich and sort of survived there for a month

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Speaker 1: or so. You know, we just won weeks with the work,

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Speaker 1: so all that that was my first really official professional gig.

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Speaker 1: I mean, we just certainly didn't make any money, and

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Speaker 1: we all got repatriated by the by the console as well.

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Speaker 1: We got chucked out of Germany. It wasn't that successful.

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Speaker 1: What's the first time you played on the recording? I

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Speaker 1: think back. It was actually a show band that my

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Speaker 1: friend was playing with and they were recording at Rockfield

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Speaker 1: in Wales, and I just went down down there to

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Speaker 1: sort of hang with my friend who was the keyboard player,

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Speaker 1: and before I knew playing bass on this track, and

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Speaker 1: that's the first time I remember actually having headphones on

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Speaker 1: in the studio and thinking, wow, I really liked this,

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Speaker 1: this is fun. But did you build your life as

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Speaker 1: a session player in the UK? First? I never thought

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Speaker 1: of being a session player. I just wanted to be

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Speaker 1: in a band. But as I played with I had

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Speaker 1: more interaction with different musicians. I started to think about,

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Speaker 1: you know, what it would be like to just play

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Speaker 1: on different records, and it just seemed like such a

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Speaker 1: cool thing to do. And then before you know it,

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Speaker 1: did you become a session player? Did you ever find

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Speaker 1: a band where it felt like this is my band

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Speaker 1: and this is what we're going to do you No,

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Speaker 1: but there did come a point where I thought, you know,

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Speaker 1: my strength is being freelance and being able to go

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Speaker 1: into different projects with different genres, and I really start

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Speaker 1: to enjoy the interaction with different musicians and different forms

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Speaker 1: of music. The first time I heard your name was

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Speaker 1: as it related to the Who. What happened before the

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Speaker 1: Who that allowed you to end up playing with the Who? Well,

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Speaker 1: in the early eighties, this is going back quite a way.

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Speaker 1: I had a call from a friend of mine, Chris Slade,

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Speaker 1: who was playing drums with Gary Human, Great druma and

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Speaker 1: proper Welshman. So he founded me up and said, look,

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Speaker 1: I'm in the studio with Gary Numan and he's looking

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Speaker 1: for a frantless bass player. Chris knew that I had

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Speaker 1: a friendless, so I ended up going down to the

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Speaker 1: studio and working with Gary and working on an album

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Speaker 1: called by Assassin, which really featured him. You know, he

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Speaker 1: just gave me an open, open card, really and just said,

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Speaker 1: whatever you want to play on this stuff, just you know,

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Speaker 1: bring something. So moving along, that led to Paul Young,

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Speaker 1: Paul Youngs producer at the time in the eighties Laurie

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Speaker 1: Latham you know here in the record and thinking it

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Speaker 1: would be cool to bring me in on some of

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Speaker 1: the Paul Young stuff. So Paul Young again Fretless Space.

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Speaker 1: The next major calling up was from Dave Gilmour out

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Speaker 1: of the blue one day as I was in the rehearse,

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Speaker 1: so I couldn't believe it, you know, they's followed me

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Speaker 1: up such a huge Floyd fram from backing the day,

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Speaker 1: and that led to me working on a Dave Gilmore album.

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Speaker 1: He had written a song with Pete Townsend for that

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Speaker 1: album and then Pete decided to do that same song

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Speaker 1: on his album White City. So Dave recommended me to

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Speaker 1: go in and play on this song. Amazing. Pete just

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Speaker 1: threw this other song of me. He said, look, I've

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Speaker 1: got this idea. I've been working with the song of

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Speaker 1: Phillips and Dave Gilmore and it's not really a song yet,

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Speaker 1: but would you want to have a play on it?

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Speaker 1: And it turned out to be the song called give Blood.

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Speaker 1: You know, I heard it and I was just I

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Speaker 1: was so happy. I thought, you're gonna let him plant this.

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Speaker 1: This is incredible. So I did my thing on that

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Speaker 1: and me and Pete sort of hit it off that day,

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Speaker 1: and that's really what led to my connection with the

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Speaker 1: who incredible and the Gilmore side of it I didn't know,

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Speaker 1: and that's amazing. How did Dave Filmore hear about you

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Speaker 1: from my playing on the Paul Young records? Wow? The

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Speaker 1: friendless bass was sort of featured on one song in

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Speaker 1: particular co Wherever Like My Hat, which is a cover

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Speaker 1: of a mob and gay b side that we sort

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Speaker 1: of worked up. The bass ended up being the sort

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Speaker 1: of vocal point other than the voice obviously, so that

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Speaker 1: brought up a lot of attention to play. It's funny

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Speaker 1: when you hear something remarkable. I can remember a record

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Speaker 1: producer friend playing a song for me and it was

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Speaker 1: I think it was a cover song and it got

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Speaker 1: to the guitar solo, and all I needed to know

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Speaker 1: in that moment was who's playing a guitar solo? Now,

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Speaker 1: for me, it's an odd question in a cover song,

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't normally ask. I wouldn't normally even I would

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Speaker 1: probably if it's a cover song, I would probably tune

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Speaker 1: out for a guitar solo, right, do you know what

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Speaker 1: I'm saying? But in this case, I tuned in. It's

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Speaker 1: like who is that? And that's how I got to

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Speaker 1: meet Blake. Amazing, there you go. It can just be

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Speaker 1: a spark. Sometimes it's it's there's something there that's like,

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Speaker 1: I want to know more about this, whatever this is,

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Speaker 1: need to know more. Again, the first time I heard

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Speaker 1: your name was in relation to the who. The time

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Speaker 1: that I learned who you were actually was based on Voodoo,

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Speaker 1: which was, you know, maybe my favorite album and wanting

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Speaker 1: to know how did this happen? Who played on this?

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Speaker 1: And that's what led to our getting to work together

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Speaker 1: some time? Though. Absolutely, it's amazing. It's amazing how that

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Speaker 1: thing just translates, how it connects. Yeah, beyond Motown, what

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Speaker 1: would you say influences on your style. Where would they

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Speaker 1: come from? Well, in Cardiff, where I come from, it's

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Speaker 1: quite similar to Liverpool. It's a docks area, so there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of different nationalities. I had some friends that

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Speaker 1: live down on the Bay and there were clubs down

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Speaker 1: there that played a lot of American funk, reggae from Jamaica,

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Speaker 1: a lot of that stuff and some African musications, and

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Speaker 1: so that was hugely influential to the time. A lot

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Speaker 1: of king jazz, folk, soul, reggae, lottle reggae music in

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Speaker 1: the mid to late seventies. And you know, I had

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Speaker 1: some pretty pretty tough lessons working with some reggae musicians,

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Speaker 1: some older guys down there, and also in London. You know,

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Speaker 1: I was learning fusion to play all sorts of different

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Speaker 1: things that tom and was playing way too many notes,

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Speaker 1: and these guys would sometimes be in the studio and

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Speaker 1: they would tap out the beat and sing the sort

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Speaker 1: of bassline to me on the back of my shoulder,

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Speaker 1: like hard, you know, like boom boom boom, boom boom,

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Speaker 1: really drilling it into me. So that really helped me

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Speaker 1: with the economy, you know, a sense of economy and

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Speaker 1: bass play he learned restraint. Yes. Absolutely, We're gonna take

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Speaker 1: a quick break and then we'll be right back with more.

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Speaker 1: We're back with more from Rick Rubin and Pinot Palladino.

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Speaker 1: Guitarist Blake Mills also joins a conversation. Right, let's see

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Speaker 1: the album this morning. Talk to me about the arrangements.

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Speaker 1: Who did the arrangements? And are all of the instruments

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Speaker 1: that sound like instrum mens actual instruments? Yeah, yeah, I

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Speaker 1: mean in terms of the arrangements, so I think again,

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Speaker 1: Me and Blake pretty much flesh those out between us

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Speaker 1: over a period of time and with the sounds of

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Speaker 1: the instruments. Yeah, there's a lot of real instruments on

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Speaker 1: the Great I'm definitely curious just because it all sounds magnificent.

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Speaker 1: There are a couple of moments where it felt like

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Speaker 1: it went from an organic what seemed like a clearly

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Speaker 1: organic place to a non organic place, and it just

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Speaker 1: sucks me in and makes me want to listen more.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's just interesting, it's beautiful, felt really tastefully done. Well,

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Speaker 1: that's beautiful and post. Me and Blake really wanted these

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Speaker 1: songs to envelop you and just allow you to go

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Speaker 1: into a journey if you allow it, and you know,

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Speaker 1: I feel, I feel really happy with the way that

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Speaker 1: the songs are turned out. So what would be an

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Speaker 1: example of what you brought like if you if you'd

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Speaker 1: had collected material for the project, in what form would

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Speaker 1: it exist before you started with? How fleshed out was

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Speaker 1: it in your mind? Quite a few of the ideas

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Speaker 1: actually originated with myself and Chris Dave at my home

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Speaker 1: in London. And that's an interesting story too, because the

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Speaker 1: first time I actually physically met Chris was at Shangri

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Speaker 1: La because you brought us together for a Dell's album.

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Speaker 1: So this is a nice full circle, you know, talking

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Speaker 1: to you now about the record. We hit it off

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Speaker 1: from that day we met and continued to kind of

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Speaker 1: hang and work on different things together, and whenever we

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Speaker 1: were together, we would put down music in some way,

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Speaker 1: whether it's at my house or at a studio in

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Speaker 1: New York, if we were both in New York or LA.

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Speaker 1: And so quite a few of those I would say

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Speaker 1: three or four of those ideas started off as the

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Speaker 1: stuff that me and Chris had worked on together, with

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Speaker 1: me playing guitar and bass and Chris playing percussion. Occasionally

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Speaker 1: adding the odd keyboard. Other things were like fully fleshed

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Speaker 1: out tunes, as one tune in particular called Man from Molise,

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Speaker 1: and that was a tune that I recorded in New

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Speaker 1: York with some amazing Cuban musicians and it was like

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Speaker 1: a nine minute arrangement with bridges and solos and all

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Speaker 1: sorts of stuff, and so that was that was a

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Speaker 1: different form that one. I played to Blake and he

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Speaker 1: loved it. But he said, how about if we slowed

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Speaker 1: it down? And I thought, okay, we'll slowed it down

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Speaker 1: a couple of bits a minute, that would be great,

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Speaker 1: but he meant half speed, so he really slowed it down.

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Speaker 1: So you can imagine, you know, you have a song

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Speaker 1: that's kind of grouping in a certain way, and then

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Speaker 1: you take it down to half speed. It's like, that's

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Speaker 1: that's a bit of a shot. But ultimately I was.

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Speaker 1: I was open to it because of his daring, experimental

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Speaker 1: kind of nature, and it tuned into something completely different

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Speaker 1: and we just got right into it. And I mean, yeah,

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Speaker 1: we're both pretty sick like that, and Blake those decals

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Speaker 1: we need to go down a rabbit hole and fight

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Speaker 1: our way out, you know, if we need to. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you play with arguably the best drummers in the world

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Speaker 1: on a regular basis. Tell me about what makes Chris

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Speaker 1: Dave Chris Dave. I mean, he's just extravagantly gifted in

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Speaker 1: terms of what he knows physically well. He can play

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Speaker 1: at the same time, various rhythms and and just incredible chops.

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Speaker 1: But it isn't even that. I mean, it's a creativity

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Speaker 1: and the fact that you just what he's going to play.

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Speaker 1: He has amazing instincts. He'll listen to a song. You

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Speaker 1: know you will, right, He'll listen to a song and

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Speaker 1: he might say, let me hear that again. By the

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Speaker 1: time he's going into play, he's got it all worked

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Speaker 1: out in his head in a way, or if he hasn't,

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Speaker 1: whatever happens is usually correct and new and vibrant. It's

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Speaker 1: just so fresh. One of the things that I find

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Speaker 1: interesting with Chris is that regardless of what he plays,

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Speaker 1: regardless of how simple and straightforward the thing he might

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Speaker 1: choose to play, is you want to listen to it.

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Speaker 1: Like it the feel he could play boom cha, boom cha,

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Speaker 1: boom boom cha, and you want to listen to it.

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Speaker 1: And anyone else plays the same beat and you tune

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Speaker 1: out and it's just there's something there, there's something. It's

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Speaker 1: always groovy and it's always interesting, regardless of how fancied.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't have to be fancy for it to be

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Speaker 1: compelling when he's playing. Yeah, I agree with it. It's

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Speaker 1: very engaging. Listen. Where in the project did you decide

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Speaker 1: this is going to be a coproject with Blake? Pretty

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Speaker 1: early on? Actually, I think probably like two songs in.

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Speaker 1: I think it goned on us at the same time,

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Speaker 1: because I remember we had a we decided to meet

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Speaker 1: up my place here in La and said out side

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Speaker 1: and had a chat, and yeah, we were both on

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Speaker 1: the same page. It just it seemslutely the way to

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Speaker 1: go and the way I see it is, although it's

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Speaker 1: my music and most of the ideas originate from me,

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Speaker 1: you know, presenting them to Blake and having his reaction

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Speaker 1: to them just took it in such an interesting direction.

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Speaker 1: If it just absolutely was perfect to be a collaboration,

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Speaker 1: and the guitar work on it is spectacular and unexpected

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Speaker 1: and spectacular beautiful. A lot of it's probably Pino. I mean,

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Speaker 1: the thing is, like we were just talking about this recently.

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Speaker 1: The My approach to playing guitar on the record was

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Speaker 1: so informed by getting to learn more and more about

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Speaker 1: Pino's musicianship, you know, as a bass player, as a ranger,

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Speaker 1: a writer like I started to become aware of note

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Speaker 1: length and how much character there is in that. With him,

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Speaker 1: it really was kind of trying to be an extension

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Speaker 1: of of his musical personality. Would the tracks typically start

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Speaker 1: with the three of YouTube and Chris playing together? No? Actually, never, never? Well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: some of the ideas, as I mentioned, really a stamp

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Speaker 1: from ideas of me and Chris had the prerecorded I

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Speaker 1: think survibes, and then we would sometimes break them down

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Speaker 1: in the studio in terms of maybe not using all

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Speaker 1: the stuff that we recorded or all the parts of

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Speaker 1: the drum kit. But from there was there more material

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Speaker 1: that didn't make the record. Yeah, I mean, there are

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Speaker 1: a lot more ideas hanging about. I suppose we arrived

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Speaker 1: at the eight songs on the album, and for a

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Speaker 1: while we wondered if that was enough. It's perfect here

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Speaker 1: to me it is too, yeah, I mean, you know,

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Speaker 1: I can't really listen to too many songs on a record,

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Speaker 1: Like the first time it dawned on me that we

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Speaker 1: actually had a record was when I got the opportunity

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Speaker 1: to sequence to songs and just imagine what it would

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Speaker 1: be like as a vinyl record. And then I'd finally

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Speaker 1: let go of it and thought, yeah, it's a record now.

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Speaker 1: It really feels like you've got enough here. Let's talk

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Speaker 1: about jeff Ron. It started off with myself and Chris

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Speaker 1: David my home in London and just jamming on some stuff.

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Speaker 1: Chris came up with a beat that you hear featured

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Speaker 1: three chords of the way into the song on there

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Speaker 1: and I played just a baseline idea with it, and

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Speaker 1: I went in the next day and listened to this

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Speaker 1: beat and thought, wow, what a cool beat, and then

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Speaker 1: I tried to write something new to it. So I

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Speaker 1: wrote a chord sequence to It's like a four bar

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Speaker 1: chord sequence with a sort of bridge idea, and so

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Speaker 1: that's how that song lived for quite a while. It

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Speaker 1: was just that, and we actually played it live a

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Speaker 1: couple of times with Chris Stephen friends, and there is

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Speaker 1: gigs that we did. It was the title was there

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Speaker 1: just wrong? But I presented that to Blake and then

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Speaker 1: we started MUK with chords a little bit. Still the

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Speaker 1: same sequence, but just looking at putting some of the

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Speaker 1: chords in a different order in the bridge and making

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Speaker 1: it a seven bar bridge or nine bar whatever it is.

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Speaker 1: I haven't counted it, and it didn't have a melody

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Speaker 1: or any really fleshed out arrangement at that point. And

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Speaker 1: then the first person we brought in was Larry, actually

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Speaker 1: Larry Goldings. He came in and I had an idea

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Speaker 1: for melody. We got Larry to play it on melotron

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Speaker 1: with some sounds that I hear him playing that were

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Speaker 1: like sampled Ben Webster horns or something like that, and

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Speaker 1: then Blake had an idea to harmonize some of that stuff.

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Speaker 1: So we just really was a very organic process. And

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Speaker 1: then eventually Sam came in Sam Gandel and played on

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Speaker 1: top of the melody and added all his sort of

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Speaker 1: polyphonic stuff through the tune, just him playing chords on

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Speaker 1: the sacks and just warming up some of his voices.

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Speaker 1: The reason why this song is special to me on

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Speaker 1: the record is because it's also the first time where

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Speaker 1: we opened up this project together in the studio at

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Speaker 1: sound City, which which I and my partner Tony Berg

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Speaker 1: had the first time we got to open a song

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Speaker 1: in the studio and and really kind of build things

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Speaker 1: outside of the box, not from previous recordings. I think

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Speaker 1: it actually sort of grew simultaneously. You know, we were

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Speaker 1: listening back to what we were doing and kind of

395
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Speaker 1: catching a vibe from you know, this, this other collaborator,

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Speaker 1: which is the studio, you know, the space and the

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Speaker 1: listening environment. I think that might be what feels so

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Speaker 1: modern about it, is the intervention of the studio. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: for sure. We're gonna take a quick break here and

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Speaker 1: then we'll be back with more from Rick's conversation with

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Speaker 1: Pino Palladino and Blake Males. We're back with the rest

402
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Speaker 1: of Rick Rubin's conversation with Pino Palladino and Blake Males.

403
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Speaker 1: How different is it playing on a session first, playing

404
00:23:02,716 --> 00:23:07,036
Speaker 1: for your own piece, It's overall the same approach, because

405
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Speaker 1: I'm reacting to the piece of music, whether it's or

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Speaker 1: somebody else's and trying to bring something to it and

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Speaker 1: just bring some light into it somehow. But if it's

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Speaker 1: my own thing, I mean, I get a lot more

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Speaker 1: time for one thing, you know. I could I could

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Speaker 1: do something one day and come back the next day

411
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Speaker 1: and message which is not always the best thing, is it.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes your first instinct isn't the thing you know, and

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Speaker 1: you have to be saved from yourself. So absolutely putting

414
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Speaker 1: more time into something doesn't necessarily make it better. Yeah

415
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Speaker 1: you can, you can exhaust possibilities, but you'll probably come

416
00:23:38,956 --> 00:23:41,316
Speaker 1: back to your first instance. Tell me a little bit

417
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Speaker 1: more about session work in general, just because you've done

418
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Speaker 1: a lot. Tell me about that experience. What's it like

419
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Speaker 1: playing with different people. What's it like if you like

420
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Speaker 1: the material, what's it like if you don't like the material?

421
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Speaker 1: I think fundamentally, the thing that I always come back to,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's it's it's really you're being asked to

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Speaker 1: plan on something as people they want you there. Obviously

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Speaker 1: they've hear something that I've done and they want me

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Speaker 1: to be a part of the music. So you know

426
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Speaker 1: you're winning straight away there. If somebody's actually ask you

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Speaker 1: to come because they want yet so so really, I

428
00:24:16,076 --> 00:24:19,916
Speaker 1: think then it becomes really important how you turn out,

429
00:24:19,996 --> 00:24:22,476
Speaker 1: how you present yourself. And I'm not talking about clothes

430
00:24:23,276 --> 00:24:25,156
Speaker 1: or any of that. I'm just talking about what you

431
00:24:25,276 --> 00:24:29,196
Speaker 1: bring to the studio in terms of like your confidence

432
00:24:29,796 --> 00:24:34,276
Speaker 1: and your ability to communicate with people, it's really important

433
00:24:34,316 --> 00:24:36,956
Speaker 1: straight away that you you try and set up some

434
00:24:37,036 --> 00:24:41,716
Speaker 1: sort of you know, a way of dialogue. That's a

435
00:24:41,836 --> 00:24:44,316
Speaker 1: that's a really important thing for me. And then the

436
00:24:44,436 --> 00:24:47,556
Speaker 1: music is more than often, more often than not, the

437
00:24:47,596 --> 00:24:51,796
Speaker 1: easy part of it. Once you've established that, you know

438
00:24:51,916 --> 00:24:54,876
Speaker 1: you're there to do a great job, and you're over

439
00:24:54,956 --> 00:24:58,356
Speaker 1: to communication and ideas. I think that's really important as

440
00:24:58,436 --> 00:25:02,476
Speaker 1: a session player. If that thing even exists anymore, Like you, Houston,

441
00:25:02,596 --> 00:25:06,836
Speaker 1: I'm not even sure it does. And then in terms

442
00:25:06,876 --> 00:25:10,396
Speaker 1: of like when you hear the song sometimes views songs

443
00:25:10,396 --> 00:25:12,316
Speaker 1: and I'm just so well, I'm so lucky to get

444
00:25:12,316 --> 00:25:15,236
Speaker 1: to play on this thing. It's already sounds amazing and

445
00:25:15,316 --> 00:25:17,716
Speaker 1: as long as I don't fucking spoil it, it's going

446
00:25:17,796 --> 00:25:21,076
Speaker 1: to be great. How different are the different um playing

447
00:25:21,076 --> 00:25:23,476
Speaker 1: on different genres of music in terms of what the

448
00:25:23,476 --> 00:25:27,236
Speaker 1: feeling of the session is like, Yeah, fitting into into

449
00:25:27,276 --> 00:25:30,436
Speaker 1: the genre, that's the thing. I mean. I've always felt

450
00:25:30,796 --> 00:25:33,276
Speaker 1: like I wanted to just play the best possible thing

451
00:25:33,276 --> 00:25:35,756
Speaker 1: I could think of winning that genre. I guess you

452
00:25:35,796 --> 00:25:38,196
Speaker 1: need to be hit to a lot of music to

453
00:25:38,236 --> 00:25:41,756
Speaker 1: be able to do that and have an appreciation for

454
00:25:42,156 --> 00:25:45,956
Speaker 1: the different sort of skills involved in different genres of music. Yeah,

455
00:25:46,036 --> 00:25:50,076
Speaker 1: I think there's a there's a similar role in producing

456
00:25:50,076 --> 00:25:52,836
Speaker 1: as there is in being a session player, in that

457
00:25:52,996 --> 00:25:58,116
Speaker 1: you you have to quickly infer what's what's not going

458
00:25:58,156 --> 00:26:00,676
Speaker 1: to be spelled out for you, what's not going to

459
00:26:00,756 --> 00:26:02,836
Speaker 1: be sort of explained, or what's not figured out by

460
00:26:02,836 --> 00:26:06,076
Speaker 1: the artist, so that the artist can come in and

461
00:26:06,396 --> 00:26:10,556
Speaker 1: has the freedom to focus on what is important to them.

462
00:26:10,676 --> 00:26:13,596
Speaker 1: You know, whether you're you've got an instrument in your

463
00:26:13,596 --> 00:26:19,316
Speaker 1: hand or not. You're everybody's on the same team, servicing

464
00:26:19,676 --> 00:26:24,156
Speaker 1: the same goals and allowing each other to be themselves

465
00:26:24,156 --> 00:26:27,876
Speaker 1: and do what they're they're they're special at doing pino.

466
00:26:27,956 --> 00:26:31,236
Speaker 1: When you were early in your career, it would typically

467
00:26:31,276 --> 00:26:33,796
Speaker 1: be playing on the floor with a band of musicians.

468
00:26:34,116 --> 00:26:36,836
Speaker 1: Would that be correct? No, because I came through in

469
00:26:36,876 --> 00:26:40,396
Speaker 1: the eighties, so it was more often than not sitting

470
00:26:40,436 --> 00:26:43,196
Speaker 1: in the control room with a producer on an artist. Wow,

471
00:26:43,436 --> 00:26:47,356
Speaker 1: because I think that was your experience as well. Yes, Yeah,

472
00:26:47,396 --> 00:26:50,516
Speaker 1: I mean after being in a band and making a

473
00:26:50,556 --> 00:26:54,956
Speaker 1: record with an ensemble, starting to do sessions with producers

474
00:26:54,956 --> 00:26:59,996
Speaker 1: who layered things and solo artists, that was definitely the

475
00:27:00,676 --> 00:27:03,676
Speaker 1: way that we would build records. Everything I ever did

476
00:27:03,716 --> 00:27:06,996
Speaker 1: with you was always an ensemble recording. Yeah, so there

477
00:27:06,996 --> 00:27:10,756
Speaker 1: were certain certain times where, for whatever reason, that's what

478
00:27:10,796 --> 00:27:14,036
Speaker 1: you were doing. I remember the very first time that

479
00:27:14,116 --> 00:27:19,196
Speaker 1: we worked together on an ensemble recording, and it was definitely,

480
00:27:19,996 --> 00:27:23,676
Speaker 1: definitely it was wild. It was a fast learning curve

481
00:27:23,716 --> 00:27:28,196
Speaker 1: because I remember the expectation was different than what was

482
00:27:28,396 --> 00:27:32,356
Speaker 1: happening in the moment completely. I mean in so many

483
00:27:32,356 --> 00:27:36,036
Speaker 1: ways too. There was like the question you had earlier

484
00:27:36,036 --> 00:27:39,036
Speaker 1: about genre, you know, and how important that is or

485
00:27:39,076 --> 00:27:42,036
Speaker 1: how much that can affect, you know, your approach. There

486
00:27:42,116 --> 00:27:44,636
Speaker 1: was a bait and switch in terms of the genre

487
00:27:44,916 --> 00:27:47,316
Speaker 1: that I was expecting we were going to be working

488
00:27:47,316 --> 00:27:50,316
Speaker 1: in that day, you know, not not by anybody in

489
00:27:50,396 --> 00:27:54,436
Speaker 1: particular or intentionally, but just we went in with a

490
00:27:54,516 --> 00:27:58,996
Speaker 1: preconceived notion of an artist's background and their repertoire and

491
00:27:59,036 --> 00:28:01,396
Speaker 1: what we were probably going to be working on. And

492
00:28:01,436 --> 00:28:04,876
Speaker 1: then it did a complete one eighty and it was

493
00:28:04,916 --> 00:28:08,596
Speaker 1: great because we all sort of responded to only what

494
00:28:08,636 --> 00:28:11,916
Speaker 1: was happening in the moment, and we were creating new

495
00:28:11,996 --> 00:28:15,716
Speaker 1: music that was not informed by you know, what we

496
00:28:15,796 --> 00:28:19,556
Speaker 1: knew and come out prior or whatever. Yeah, I try

497
00:28:19,636 --> 00:28:22,356
Speaker 1: not to even listen to an artist's past work before

498
00:28:22,396 --> 00:28:24,476
Speaker 1: I work with them because I don't want to have

499
00:28:24,516 --> 00:28:27,476
Speaker 1: any preconceived idea of what it's supposed to be. Just

500
00:28:27,596 --> 00:28:29,156
Speaker 1: what can we do to make the best thing we

501
00:28:29,196 --> 00:28:32,156
Speaker 1: can make? You know? Yeah? Same here? Have you two

502
00:28:32,196 --> 00:28:37,516
Speaker 1: played on many things together prior to this? Good question? No? Interesting,

503
00:28:37,756 --> 00:28:39,916
Speaker 1: I don't think so. No. I don't think I've ever

504
00:28:39,916 --> 00:28:43,356
Speaker 1: played on anything that you would I would have known,

505
00:28:43,396 --> 00:28:45,756
Speaker 1: I would have taken note of that same. Yeah, Yeah,

506
00:28:45,796 --> 00:28:48,556
Speaker 1: it's interesting in it because it's different worlds in a

507
00:28:48,636 --> 00:28:51,876
Speaker 1: way coming together. I never thought it like, yeah, interesting,

508
00:28:51,916 --> 00:28:53,956
Speaker 1: I would. I would have guessed that you guys had

509
00:28:53,996 --> 00:28:55,916
Speaker 1: done a lot of work together, would have been my guests.

510
00:28:55,996 --> 00:28:59,796
Speaker 1: But fascinating that it wasn't the case. Yeah, that's what

511
00:29:00,276 --> 00:29:03,676
Speaker 1: music industry is though, right, there's so many different parts

512
00:29:03,716 --> 00:29:06,596
Speaker 1: of the music industry and different parts. Shown was a

513
00:29:06,716 --> 00:29:11,156
Speaker 1: music that sometimes you just missed people you never connected. Blake,

514
00:29:11,316 --> 00:29:17,236
Speaker 1: you're both a solo artist and play on everybody's records

515
00:29:17,396 --> 00:29:20,036
Speaker 1: as well as producing records. On your solo works, do

516
00:29:20,036 --> 00:29:24,316
Speaker 1: you have other people playing typically? Is it typically a bad? Not? Typically?

517
00:29:24,956 --> 00:29:31,596
Speaker 1: The first record was mostly myself, layering with certainly some exceptions.

518
00:29:31,636 --> 00:29:35,476
Speaker 1: And then the second record was much more of a

519
00:29:35,476 --> 00:29:40,596
Speaker 1: celebration of some of my favorite studio musicians and and

520
00:29:40,716 --> 00:29:43,516
Speaker 1: just musicians in general at the time, and getting to

521
00:29:43,516 --> 00:29:47,196
Speaker 1: work with them with the support of a label behind

522
00:29:47,236 --> 00:29:49,796
Speaker 1: me and being able to afford to do that at

523
00:29:49,796 --> 00:29:53,076
Speaker 1: a big studio and try all that. And then the

524
00:29:53,196 --> 00:29:56,876
Speaker 1: third record or I guess sort of subsequent projects after

525
00:29:56,956 --> 00:30:01,316
Speaker 1: that were some form in between. I'm a little less

526
00:30:03,196 --> 00:30:08,236
Speaker 1: moved by the idea of ultimately making something where all

527
00:30:08,276 --> 00:30:12,836
Speaker 1: of those are extensions of my own musical personality. Typically,

528
00:30:12,836 --> 00:30:14,596
Speaker 1: when you produce an artist, do you play on the

529
00:30:14,756 --> 00:30:17,876
Speaker 1: on the record or not? Necessarily seems to be more

530
00:30:18,276 --> 00:30:21,516
Speaker 1: the case when it's a solo artist. There's there's a

531
00:30:21,516 --> 00:30:24,876
Speaker 1: little more room for performance from me. But in the

532
00:30:24,916 --> 00:30:28,756
Speaker 1: case of the band like Alabama Shakes, for example, I

533
00:30:29,236 --> 00:30:32,836
Speaker 1: barely picked up an instrument for the three months you

534
00:30:32,876 --> 00:30:35,316
Speaker 1: know we worked on that album, say for maybe a

535
00:30:35,356 --> 00:30:39,116
Speaker 1: tambourine or something like that. Her voice is so beautiful. Course,

536
00:30:40,956 --> 00:30:44,796
Speaker 1: early experience of music, Tell me what was what first

537
00:30:44,876 --> 00:30:48,036
Speaker 1: got you excited about music in your life? It was

538
00:30:48,116 --> 00:30:53,316
Speaker 1: really MTV for me, and maybe it similarly Tupino, like

539
00:30:53,516 --> 00:30:59,516
Speaker 1: an escape from schoolwork, you know, and other expectations from me.

540
00:30:59,836 --> 00:31:02,876
Speaker 1: I just kind of fell in love with the stuff

541
00:31:02,916 --> 00:31:05,716
Speaker 1: that was playing on MTV inbah One at the time,

542
00:31:05,876 --> 00:31:09,956
Speaker 1: so it would have been Nirvana and Sound Garden, itallica.

543
00:31:10,196 --> 00:31:12,956
Speaker 1: The commonality with all these bands and the music videos

544
00:31:13,076 --> 00:31:17,436
Speaker 1: was always some iconic shot of somebody with a guitar.

545
00:31:17,836 --> 00:31:19,476
Speaker 1: How old were you when you got your first guitar?

546
00:31:19,876 --> 00:31:22,676
Speaker 1: I was ten and h and I bought it from

547
00:31:23,316 --> 00:31:25,676
Speaker 1: a guitar store where if you got a guitar, you

548
00:31:25,756 --> 00:31:28,276
Speaker 1: got you know, a certain amount of free lessons, and

549
00:31:28,876 --> 00:31:31,196
Speaker 1: and I wanted to learn those songs, so it was

550
00:31:31,276 --> 00:31:35,716
Speaker 1: kind of a it was just a direct access to

551
00:31:35,836 --> 00:31:38,596
Speaker 1: sort of that fantasy world. And it was beautiful how

552
00:31:38,716 --> 00:31:42,076
Speaker 1: how quickly a beginner could pick up some of those

553
00:31:42,196 --> 00:31:46,876
Speaker 1: riffs and and all of a sudden be in the

554
00:31:46,916 --> 00:31:49,356
Speaker 1: teen Spirit video, you know what I mean, Like, once

555
00:31:49,396 --> 00:31:53,596
Speaker 1: you learn the part, you're you're transported. And I think

556
00:31:54,196 --> 00:31:59,836
Speaker 1: even even before I took listening to music as something

557
00:31:59,876 --> 00:32:03,116
Speaker 1: that could be really serious and transported it, I think

558
00:32:03,156 --> 00:32:05,956
Speaker 1: the seeds were sort of planted that that this could

559
00:32:05,996 --> 00:32:09,476
Speaker 1: be an escape. Were you hopeful to be a band?

560
00:32:09,596 --> 00:32:12,836
Speaker 1: Was that the dream at that point. It definitely was

561
00:32:12,916 --> 00:32:15,796
Speaker 1: once I was in high school and started to figure

562
00:32:15,796 --> 00:32:19,476
Speaker 1: out that, like, you know, what kinds of songs girls liked,

563
00:32:20,516 --> 00:32:22,236
Speaker 1: the girls that I was interested in, like who they

564
00:32:22,236 --> 00:32:25,116
Speaker 1: were listening to. I was born a little too late

565
00:32:25,156 --> 00:32:27,796
Speaker 1: for like the age of of guitar being you know,

566
00:32:27,876 --> 00:32:32,076
Speaker 1: some kind of a symbol of mystery. And but but

567
00:32:32,196 --> 00:32:36,036
Speaker 1: like songs, you know, like Ben Folds and Elliott Smith

568
00:32:36,156 --> 00:32:40,076
Speaker 1: and Jeff Tweedy, you know, these were these were the

569
00:32:40,116 --> 00:32:44,236
Speaker 1: heroes of not only my musical heroes, but like also

570
00:32:45,196 --> 00:32:50,196
Speaker 1: you know, the the opposite sex. And in those formative years,

571
00:32:50,836 --> 00:32:54,876
Speaker 1: you know, nothing is more important. So I started writing

572
00:32:54,916 --> 00:32:57,076
Speaker 1: songs with a schoolmate of mine and we ended up

573
00:32:57,116 --> 00:33:00,916
Speaker 1: forming a band called Simon Dawes and and they're still

574
00:33:00,916 --> 00:33:03,916
Speaker 1: a band called Dogs today. And I think we went

575
00:33:03,956 --> 00:33:07,596
Speaker 1: through the process of falling in love with records and

576
00:33:07,916 --> 00:33:13,516
Speaker 1: the fantasy of of co authorship of songs together, you know,

577
00:33:13,556 --> 00:33:18,076
Speaker 1: listening to Nick and Keith and Lennon McCartney and just

578
00:33:18,156 --> 00:33:21,716
Speaker 1: having those teenage years, those formative years being formed by

579
00:33:21,996 --> 00:33:25,836
Speaker 1: that music. I think, you know, it really imparted something

580
00:33:26,436 --> 00:33:30,236
Speaker 1: on me in terms of an appreciation for the songs.

581
00:33:30,876 --> 00:33:38,076
Speaker 1: Tell me about that journey as a player influences styles.

582
00:33:39,436 --> 00:33:42,796
Speaker 1: I think the most like succinct way that I could

583
00:33:42,796 --> 00:33:47,036
Speaker 1: talk about my playing as it pertains over like a

584
00:33:47,036 --> 00:33:49,516
Speaker 1: long period of time, because you know, there's so many

585
00:33:49,516 --> 00:33:53,436
Speaker 1: phases that you go through in life. But the thing

586
00:33:53,476 --> 00:33:58,436
Speaker 1: that's always sort of remained steadfast is that I feel

587
00:33:58,516 --> 00:34:02,196
Speaker 1: like my personality is prone to trying to find the

588
00:34:02,276 --> 00:34:06,156
Speaker 1: exceptions to the rule, you know, like the sort of

589
00:34:06,156 --> 00:34:08,716
Speaker 1: like I know that this is how it's supposed to

590
00:34:08,756 --> 00:34:12,796
Speaker 1: be done, but what if, what if there's another approach,

591
00:34:12,836 --> 00:34:16,116
Speaker 1: another way, another answer, and so on the instrument, I'm

592
00:34:16,116 --> 00:34:21,076
Speaker 1: always thinking about that without thinking about it and searching

593
00:34:21,116 --> 00:34:24,476
Speaker 1: for that, without you know, really spending a lot of time.

594
00:34:24,716 --> 00:34:30,836
Speaker 1: I think I might just instinctively bypass something that feels

595
00:34:30,956 --> 00:34:35,876
Speaker 1: obvious and try to come upon something a little less so,

596
00:34:36,276 --> 00:34:38,796
Speaker 1: you know, a little more unique. What's the first thing

597
00:34:38,836 --> 00:34:42,556
Speaker 1: you played on with Pino? The first time I got

598
00:34:42,556 --> 00:34:44,116
Speaker 1: a chance to work with Pino was on the John

599
00:34:44,196 --> 00:34:49,716
Speaker 1: Legend record, and we pretty quickly decided that we wanted

600
00:34:49,716 --> 00:34:52,276
Speaker 1: to have a live rhythm section for that album, and

601
00:34:52,316 --> 00:34:55,836
Speaker 1: so I reached out to Pino and Christa to sort

602
00:34:55,836 --> 00:34:59,476
Speaker 1: of be the engine for this record with John. I

603
00:34:59,676 --> 00:35:03,276
Speaker 1: kind of looked for any opportunity that I could find

604
00:35:03,516 --> 00:35:05,796
Speaker 1: to do some playing on that record, to just get

605
00:35:05,836 --> 00:35:10,156
Speaker 1: a chance to play with that rhythm section. But there

606
00:35:10,236 --> 00:35:13,076
Speaker 1: wasn't a whole lot of guitar on the record. And

607
00:35:13,476 --> 00:35:17,116
Speaker 1: after being amazed for three weeks straight, you know, hearing

608
00:35:17,316 --> 00:35:21,636
Speaker 1: the ideas and the composition and the parts and seeing

609
00:35:21,676 --> 00:35:25,396
Speaker 1: how it will come about, there's this other layer of

610
00:35:25,516 --> 00:35:28,956
Speaker 1: the physicality of the tone, you know, and and and

611
00:35:29,516 --> 00:35:33,156
Speaker 1: your hands, Pino, that that I don't think a lot

612
00:35:33,156 --> 00:35:36,316
Speaker 1: of people even understand is a part of what they're hearing,

613
00:35:36,556 --> 00:35:38,436
Speaker 1: you know, until they have an opportunity to try to

614
00:35:38,436 --> 00:35:43,876
Speaker 1: fill your shoes. And those poor souls know it, like

615
00:35:43,996 --> 00:35:46,676
Speaker 1: the guys who have to go out and play your

616
00:35:46,876 --> 00:35:49,996
Speaker 1: your parts live, you know, and can't figure out how

617
00:35:49,996 --> 00:35:52,396
Speaker 1: it is you're getting that tone, you know, or that

618
00:35:52,596 --> 00:35:56,916
Speaker 1: that much weight, that profundity that was That was the

619
00:35:57,036 --> 00:35:59,956
Speaker 1: thing that really kind of knocked me out. It is

620
00:35:59,956 --> 00:36:03,636
Speaker 1: a lot more to the sound than the equipment turns out. Yeah,

621
00:36:03,796 --> 00:36:08,956
Speaker 1: real depth. Thank you so much. Great seeing you both too. Likewise,

622
00:36:09,156 --> 00:36:13,076
Speaker 1: once again, thank you for the album. It's awesome. Thank you.

623
00:36:13,396 --> 00:36:19,676
Speaker 1: I'm gonna listen to it again today, thanks the Pino

624
00:36:19,716 --> 00:36:22,196
Speaker 1: Palladino and Blake Mills for talking about their new album

625
00:36:22,276 --> 00:36:24,836
Speaker 1: Notes with Adenagments. You can check it out on a

626
00:36:24,916 --> 00:36:27,956
Speaker 1: playlist of all of our favorite Pieno Palladino feature songs

627
00:36:27,956 --> 00:36:31,556
Speaker 1: and Blake Mills songs at broken Record podcast dot com.

628
00:36:31,676 --> 00:36:34,236
Speaker 1: Be sure to subscribe to our YouTube channel at YouTube

629
00:36:34,276 --> 00:36:37,516
Speaker 1: dot com slash broken Record Podcast we can find all

630
00:36:37,556 --> 00:36:40,996
Speaker 1: of our new episodes. Broken Record is produced with help

631
00:36:41,036 --> 00:36:45,756
Speaker 1: from Leah Rose, Jason Gambrell, Martin Gonzalez, Eric Sandler, and

632
00:36:45,916 --> 00:36:50,076
Speaker 1: Jennifer Sanchez, with engineering help from Nick Chafey. Our executive

633
00:36:50,076 --> 00:36:53,316
Speaker 1: producer is mio a Bell. Broken Record is a production

634
00:36:53,396 --> 00:36:56,916
Speaker 1: of Pushkin Industries. You can follow us on Twitter at

635
00:36:56,916 --> 00:37:00,156
Speaker 1: broken Record and please remember to share, rate, and review

636
00:37:00,196 --> 00:37:03,476
Speaker 1: us on your podcast. Our theme musics by Kenny Beats.

637
00:37:03,836 --> 00:37:04,836
Speaker 1: I'm justin Richmond.