1 00:00:03,080 --> 00:00:06,040 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff Mom Never told You from how stup 2 00:00:06,080 --> 00:00:14,200 Speaker 1: works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm 3 00:00:14,280 --> 00:00:17,279 Speaker 1: Kristen and I'm Caroline, and today we're talking about really 4 00:00:17,280 --> 00:00:23,040 Speaker 1: important figure in women's history, Lisa Frank. Let's just cut 5 00:00:23,120 --> 00:00:26,080 Speaker 1: right to the chase a lot of Yeah, she's important 6 00:00:26,079 --> 00:00:30,479 Speaker 1: to a lot of women also men. Yeah. I mean really, 7 00:00:30,520 --> 00:00:33,360 Speaker 1: without Lisa Frank, I don't think that we would have 8 00:00:33,360 --> 00:00:38,120 Speaker 1: had the kind of gender equitable progress that we have 9 00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:42,440 Speaker 1: enjoyed since the late eighties and nineties, because I mean, really, 10 00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:48,479 Speaker 1: people underestimate the power of unicorns and golden retrievers with 11 00:00:48,520 --> 00:00:52,040 Speaker 1: ice cream cones on trapper keepers to really communicate the 12 00:00:52,080 --> 00:00:55,960 Speaker 1: need for intersectional feminism. And I mean, I feel like 13 00:00:56,000 --> 00:00:58,880 Speaker 1: you're leaving out a really important figure in all of this, 14 00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:03,200 Speaker 1: which is Priscilla, Uh, the white fluffy cat who has 15 00:01:03,240 --> 00:01:06,039 Speaker 1: a Tierra Um. I feel like she really further the 16 00:01:06,160 --> 00:01:10,000 Speaker 1: cause as well, because women do deserve to buy themselves 17 00:01:10,040 --> 00:01:14,560 Speaker 1: whatever jewelry they want, andy fancy feast for dinner, and 18 00:01:14,600 --> 00:01:16,680 Speaker 1: if you can sit on a rainbow, I mean, all 19 00:01:16,720 --> 00:01:20,920 Speaker 1: the better. I think we're actually getting real Lisa Frank 20 00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:26,280 Speaker 1: mixed up with feminist Lisa Frank the Tumbler. Oh is 21 00:01:26,280 --> 00:01:29,520 Speaker 1: that not what this is? Or is that what this is? 22 00:01:30,240 --> 00:01:34,840 Speaker 1: I don't know. It's all now blending together in a 23 00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:40,000 Speaker 1: rainbow nightmare. Well, um, yeah, Feminist Lisa Frank the Tumbler 24 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:43,960 Speaker 1: account was like a huge, massive, hilarious thing not too 25 00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:47,720 Speaker 1: long ago, but just as quickly as it emerged from 26 00:01:47,720 --> 00:01:53,680 Speaker 1: the rainbow sands of dime and the Internet. Uh, it 27 00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:56,120 Speaker 1: got shut down, didn't it? Or or it got slapped 28 00:01:56,120 --> 00:01:59,480 Speaker 1: with some sort of like copyright infringement from Lisa Frank. 29 00:02:00,160 --> 00:02:03,760 Speaker 1: Lisa Frank was not super happy about the human person 30 00:02:03,760 --> 00:02:07,200 Speaker 1: because she's real. Yes, Lisa Frank the person and her 31 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:12,720 Speaker 1: company sent an intellectual copyright infringement notice to Tumbler to 32 00:02:12,760 --> 00:02:16,240 Speaker 1: try to get them to shut Feminist Lisa Frank down. Um, 33 00:02:16,280 --> 00:02:21,880 Speaker 1: and I even have the wording they used. I love this. 34 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:24,000 Speaker 1: It's it's a very They pulled a really mom move 35 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:27,040 Speaker 1: with this where they say, uh, we at Lisa Frank 36 00:02:27,200 --> 00:02:31,760 Speaker 1: aren't upset so much? Is disappointed that you decided to 37 00:02:31,840 --> 00:02:35,720 Speaker 1: use Lisa Frank's artwork without asking for her permission? Well, also, 38 00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:37,760 Speaker 1: isn't there another part to that quote? Or am I 39 00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:41,680 Speaker 1: thinking of an Internet comment which is entirely possible. Didn't 40 00:02:41,720 --> 00:02:43,840 Speaker 1: she say something about, like, if you're so big on 41 00:02:43,919 --> 00:02:49,080 Speaker 1: supporting women, why are you taking other women's work? Well, yes, 42 00:02:49,480 --> 00:02:54,000 Speaker 1: she says, uh, it was particularly ironic that Lisa was 43 00:02:54,080 --> 00:02:56,840 Speaker 1: disrespected in this way to deliver a message of respect 44 00:02:56,880 --> 00:03:00,000 Speaker 1: for women. And I really really hope that Lisa Frank 45 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:04,960 Speaker 1: herself and not Lisa Frank's like executive assistant wrote this, uh, 46 00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:08,520 Speaker 1: this note to tumbler because she does only refer to 47 00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:12,200 Speaker 1: herself in third person as Lisa or Lisa Frank. I 48 00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:16,840 Speaker 1: I feel like that is my reality, that's my truth. Well, 49 00:03:16,880 --> 00:03:21,120 Speaker 1: and it might seem so frivolous for us to devote 50 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:25,600 Speaker 1: an episode to the real Lisa Frank, but a sometimes 51 00:03:25,600 --> 00:03:27,880 Speaker 1: we need a little frivolity in our lives. Sometimes we 52 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:35,240 Speaker 1: need some rainbow printed baby cheetahs to brighten our days. 53 00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:38,760 Speaker 1: And a lot of people probably don't know that she's 54 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:43,120 Speaker 1: real and she's kind of making a comeback thanks to 55 00:03:43,520 --> 00:03:46,920 Speaker 1: nineties nostalgia, well nineties nostalgia. But also there was an 56 00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:52,200 Speaker 1: artist who I'm surprised there hasn't been another, uh, third 57 00:03:52,280 --> 00:03:56,520 Speaker 1: person Lisa Frank takedown of this, But some artists just 58 00:03:56,760 --> 00:04:00,160 Speaker 1: put out Lisa Frank tarot cards and dude, so I 59 00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:03,680 Speaker 1: posted it to our sminty tumbler right, like took some 60 00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:05,640 Speaker 1: screen grabs of a bunch of the cards, and it's 61 00:04:05,720 --> 00:04:08,920 Speaker 1: hilarious because like death is represented by a bunny on 62 00:04:08,960 --> 00:04:11,840 Speaker 1: a unicorn, which is like, yeah, I don't get it, 63 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:19,680 Speaker 1: but yes, and uh. Tumbler users converged upon this post 64 00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:24,200 Speaker 1: to inform me that these were not, in fact Lisa 65 00:04:24,240 --> 00:04:27,360 Speaker 1: Frank tarot cards, but that these images were stolen from 66 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:30,800 Speaker 1: Lisa Frank and that they were created by a third party. 67 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:33,360 Speaker 1: It's not like Lisa Frank was like, you know what, 68 00:04:33,560 --> 00:04:38,360 Speaker 1: I'm going to create a tarot deck and it's like thanks, thanks. 69 00:04:38,440 --> 00:04:41,400 Speaker 1: Hundreds of people who commented it's kind of surprising that 70 00:04:41,440 --> 00:04:45,400 Speaker 1: she doesn't have a tarot deck, because Lisa Frank has 71 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:49,640 Speaker 1: been licensed to so many products, it would only make 72 00:04:49,680 --> 00:04:53,000 Speaker 1: sense to just toss a tarot card deck in there. Also, 73 00:04:53,920 --> 00:04:57,920 Speaker 1: I am now imagining that all of those tumbler users 74 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:01,240 Speaker 1: who were commenting on that actually just yes, it's all 75 00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:05,200 Speaker 1: Lisa Frank. Lisa Frank just spends her days on Tumbler 76 00:05:05,760 --> 00:05:09,960 Speaker 1: writing about herself, Lisa on Lisa that's actually her Tumbler name, 77 00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:15,080 Speaker 1: and she tracks down anyone who is co opting her 78 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:19,279 Speaker 1: art because she's a serious artist. So she says, um 79 00:05:19,360 --> 00:05:23,480 Speaker 1: and so she said, and starts and turn starts a 80 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:28,800 Speaker 1: little uh, a little tumblers fat um. She she is 81 00:05:28,839 --> 00:05:32,440 Speaker 1: a real artist, or she's trained as an artist. She's 82 00:05:32,440 --> 00:05:35,960 Speaker 1: also she's also a natural businesswoman. That's how she got 83 00:05:35,960 --> 00:05:39,120 Speaker 1: into all this stuff. Although I don't know listeners out there, 84 00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:41,159 Speaker 1: anyone who's ever worked for Lisa Frank, because there have 85 00:05:41,240 --> 00:05:44,800 Speaker 1: been hundreds of you might disagree with my assertion that 86 00:05:44,839 --> 00:05:47,880 Speaker 1: she's a natural businesswoman. Yeah, I think she's actually a 87 00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:50,760 Speaker 1: terrible business woman. Well, I guess what I should have 88 00:05:50,800 --> 00:05:56,080 Speaker 1: said is she naturally has an entrepreneurial spirit. That is 89 00:05:56,120 --> 00:05:59,240 Speaker 1: an excellent way to put it. There we go, um, 90 00:05:59,400 --> 00:06:04,400 Speaker 1: so should we should we start with baby Unicorn Lisa 91 00:06:05,240 --> 00:06:10,200 Speaker 1: when she she was but a full So she did 92 00:06:11,720 --> 00:06:15,640 Speaker 1: Lisa and Lisa, by the way, is one of the 93 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:19,599 Speaker 1: best things any Any quotes from Lisa Frank about Lisa 94 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:23,560 Speaker 1: Frank are terrific. So we're going to be direct quoting 95 00:06:23,640 --> 00:06:26,920 Speaker 1: a lot throughout this podcast. I'm just picturing, uh, like 96 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:31,039 Speaker 1: a coffee time, Like I'm literally posing the way that 97 00:06:31,080 --> 00:06:33,880 Speaker 1: I imagine her to be if she if she had 98 00:06:33,880 --> 00:06:37,440 Speaker 1: a tumbler called Lisa and Lisa like head tilt, probably 99 00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:40,800 Speaker 1: a bright red blazer with shoulder pads. You know, she's 100 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:46,719 Speaker 1: got the sensible lob haircut with some fluffy bangs, tilted, 101 00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:49,680 Speaker 1: tilted head with a head resting on her hands. Would 102 00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:53,080 Speaker 1: she have a Lisa Frank coffee mug? Yeah, oh yeah, 103 00:06:53,120 --> 00:06:58,600 Speaker 1: with Priscilla on it. Her Persilla Priscilla. Um. And actually, 104 00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:00,880 Speaker 1: it's it's worth pointing out. I know that I've like 105 00:07:00,960 --> 00:07:06,360 Speaker 1: totally strayed from your Unicorn baby Unicorn Lisa reference, but 106 00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:09,600 Speaker 1: it is worth noting that out of all of the 107 00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:15,880 Speaker 1: characters in the Lisa Frank universe, Perscilla, the fluffy white 108 00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:20,520 Speaker 1: princess cat, is the character that Lisa says she identifies 109 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:25,679 Speaker 1: most with. Yeah, she told Urban Outfitters, Yes that Urban 110 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:29,400 Speaker 1: Outfitters that there's probably a little bit of me in 111 00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:33,720 Speaker 1: each character, but she said that she most identifies with 112 00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:37,920 Speaker 1: Priscilla because quote, she is very into glam and glitz 113 00:07:37,960 --> 00:07:42,440 Speaker 1: and jewelry and everything very girly. Um and I and 114 00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:48,840 Speaker 1: I like that she accessorizes Priscilla with versions of Lisa Frank. Actually, 115 00:07:48,880 --> 00:07:54,040 Speaker 1: Lisa Frank's own jewelry. Um. But in the same interview, 116 00:07:54,080 --> 00:07:56,800 Speaker 1: she notes that she's not a cat person. Yeah, what 117 00:07:57,280 --> 00:08:01,920 Speaker 1: so your your internal I don't know what your patronist 118 00:08:02,160 --> 00:08:04,440 Speaker 1: is a cat, but you're not a huge fan of cats, 119 00:08:04,480 --> 00:08:07,880 Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying. Lisa on Lisa is the best. 120 00:08:07,960 --> 00:08:11,120 Speaker 1: She's a conundrum. She is a conundrum. Um. But she 121 00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:14,240 Speaker 1: did say that she's always been obsessed with candy in 122 00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:19,160 Speaker 1: color always um. And she considers herself, her words, not mine, 123 00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:24,400 Speaker 1: a lunatic for detail. She refers to herself as crazy 124 00:08:24,640 --> 00:08:29,160 Speaker 1: in various kinds of ways. A lot I will say, well, uh, 125 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:34,199 Speaker 1: being friends with several graphic designers, I know, I've watched 126 00:08:34,360 --> 00:08:38,640 Speaker 1: them work, and it can be hard when you're creating something, 127 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:42,560 Speaker 1: a piece of art, whether it's for yourself or for 128 00:08:42,840 --> 00:08:47,000 Speaker 1: like a marketing brochure or whatever, to know when to stop. 129 00:08:47,040 --> 00:08:48,559 Speaker 1: I mean, I feel like that's something that a lot 130 00:08:48,559 --> 00:08:52,520 Speaker 1: of artists deal with within themselves, like that perfectionist tendency 131 00:08:52,559 --> 00:08:54,959 Speaker 1: to make your art amazing. I wish that we could 132 00:08:55,040 --> 00:08:58,280 Speaker 1: hire Lisa Frank to design marketing brochures for stuff. I've 133 00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:03,479 Speaker 1: never told you we need that. What would our animals? 134 00:09:03,559 --> 00:09:08,320 Speaker 1: So she's Priscilla what would we be? Oh man, that's 135 00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:11,800 Speaker 1: a tough one. I mean could we Could we add 136 00:09:11,920 --> 00:09:15,840 Speaker 1: nar walls to the Lisa Frank universe. I think they'd 137 00:09:15,880 --> 00:09:20,560 Speaker 1: fit right in. They have horns. Yeah. Um So back 138 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:25,199 Speaker 1: to real Lisa, A little baby unicorn full Lisa. She 139 00:09:25,280 --> 00:09:29,120 Speaker 1: grew up in a wealthy Detroit suburb and her father 140 00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:33,839 Speaker 1: was an auto industry executive, and she loved drawing as 141 00:09:33,840 --> 00:09:37,360 Speaker 1: a kid. But it was sort of sad the way 142 00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:42,920 Speaker 1: that her art was fostered during her childhood, because she said, 143 00:09:43,280 --> 00:09:47,360 Speaker 1: to keep me quiet, they brought in coloring books and crayons. Hello, 144 00:09:47,400 --> 00:09:50,680 Speaker 1: welcome to my childhood. My parents only had one kid. 145 00:09:51,160 --> 00:09:53,040 Speaker 1: They wanted me to sit quietly in church. What do 146 00:09:53,040 --> 00:09:55,000 Speaker 1: you think they had to do? I don't know. Did 147 00:09:55,280 --> 00:09:58,080 Speaker 1: did you color? I colored? Also? Well? I think it 148 00:09:58,120 --> 00:10:00,280 Speaker 1: was to keep me from falling asleep in church more 149 00:10:00,280 --> 00:10:02,040 Speaker 1: than it was to keep me quiet, because I was 150 00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:05,040 Speaker 1: a pretty quiet child. How full circle would it have 151 00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:08,480 Speaker 1: been if you had been coloring? Lisa Frank coloring books 152 00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:12,800 Speaker 1: and church inception? Not? Well, I mean not not really, 153 00:10:12,840 --> 00:10:15,240 Speaker 1: but yeah? Did she she had coloring books? Right? I 154 00:10:15,240 --> 00:10:17,080 Speaker 1: don't think I had any of hers. I did have 155 00:10:17,280 --> 00:10:21,960 Speaker 1: a new kids on the black coloring book. WHOA hopefully 156 00:10:22,040 --> 00:10:25,600 Speaker 1: didn't bring that into church. My goodness, all that all 157 00:10:25,640 --> 00:10:31,560 Speaker 1: that sexual tension tempered it with a gem coloring book 158 00:10:31,559 --> 00:10:34,719 Speaker 1: as well. Anyway, well, speaking of coloring books, that is 159 00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:38,480 Speaker 1: one reason why we're talking about Lisa today because a 160 00:10:38,520 --> 00:10:42,040 Speaker 1: little while back it was announced that Lisa Frank was 161 00:10:42,080 --> 00:10:44,600 Speaker 1: coming out with an adult coloring book because apparently she 162 00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:46,559 Speaker 1: does listen to stuff I've never told you and listened 163 00:10:46,559 --> 00:10:51,079 Speaker 1: to our episode on adult coloring books, and the internet 164 00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:55,400 Speaker 1: went wild over this coloring book, which I think you 165 00:10:55,400 --> 00:10:57,680 Speaker 1: can get it dollar general. I mean, that's the sweet 166 00:10:57,679 --> 00:11:05,400 Speaker 1: thing about it. So again entrepreneurial, maybe not businesswoman minded. Well, 167 00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:07,480 Speaker 1: you know, maybe a way to think about it, as 168 00:11:07,720 --> 00:11:11,440 Speaker 1: she's a woman of the people. Populist coloring book, populist 169 00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:13,200 Speaker 1: coloring books, you can get it at all our general. 170 00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:19,440 Speaker 1: Communist she just one or the other communist Lisa kitten 171 00:11:19,640 --> 00:11:22,080 Speaker 1: like a kitten with a little cap on and like 172 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:27,760 Speaker 1: a chisel carrying the side. Oh man, um, well, maybe 173 00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:31,600 Speaker 1: maybe communist Lisa Frank is turning her back on her 174 00:11:32,520 --> 00:11:37,359 Speaker 1: she she upbringing because she did attend the Tony Cranbrooks 175 00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:41,960 Speaker 1: School where both Mitt and and Romney graduated and also 176 00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:47,640 Speaker 1: Selma Blair. So there you go hashtag cruel intentions. Um, well, 177 00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:51,640 Speaker 1: it seems like her entrepreneurial spirit really kicked off with 178 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:55,920 Speaker 1: a high school art show where she sold three thousand 179 00:11:55,960 --> 00:12:00,280 Speaker 1: dollars worth of original Lisa Frank's that's pretty impress of 180 00:12:00,440 --> 00:12:03,559 Speaker 1: considering I made no money on my art. Well, and 181 00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:06,320 Speaker 1: who wasn't who was buying? I mean, wasn't it? Wasn't 182 00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:12,920 Speaker 1: it lee Ia Coca Chrysler executive lee Ia Cocava. Yeah, 183 00:12:13,160 --> 00:12:17,120 Speaker 1: I read that and was like, and man, this lady 184 00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:20,720 Speaker 1: had a much different school experience than I did. Well, 185 00:12:21,040 --> 00:12:25,760 Speaker 1: once she made these thousands of dollars, her dad was like, Okay, Lisa, 186 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:28,360 Speaker 1: I'm not really going to pay for anything anymore. You're 187 00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:32,600 Speaker 1: making commissions off your art so well. I mean, it's 188 00:12:32,600 --> 00:12:34,640 Speaker 1: interesting the way she talks about her dad and in 189 00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:38,679 Speaker 1: the few interviews that she's done, because she clearly like 190 00:12:39,160 --> 00:12:43,680 Speaker 1: he was a major influence on her. She talks so 191 00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:47,199 Speaker 1: proudly about when he chose to display some of her 192 00:12:47,240 --> 00:12:50,360 Speaker 1: pieces in his collection on the walls of their stately, 193 00:12:51,160 --> 00:12:54,280 Speaker 1: their stately estate. I don't know, um, but she's like, 194 00:12:54,320 --> 00:12:56,640 Speaker 1: you know, he wouldn't just do that to like make 195 00:12:56,679 --> 00:12:59,880 Speaker 1: me happy or show that he loved me. Uh, he 196 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:03,600 Speaker 1: did it because I was worth it, or maybe that's 197 00:13:03,640 --> 00:13:09,440 Speaker 1: just my interpretation. Lisa and Lisa, Yeah, I believe it. Um. Well, 198 00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:12,480 Speaker 1: after her dad kicked her off the family doll essentially, 199 00:13:13,040 --> 00:13:17,760 Speaker 1: she studied at University of Arizona, pursuing art and math. 200 00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:23,400 Speaker 1: Hey hey there's stem fields um and the steams. There 201 00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:25,800 Speaker 1: you go. Yeah, she was totally steam full seam the head. 202 00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:35,560 Speaker 1: But and her first business was buying Native American pottery 203 00:13:35,679 --> 00:13:41,080 Speaker 1: and jewelry, taking them back to Michigan and then selling 204 00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:44,880 Speaker 1: them at a mark up. Yeah. And so she starts 205 00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:50,319 Speaker 1: representing these artists and ends up taking requests from customers 206 00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:54,280 Speaker 1: I guess back in the Midwest, Uh, delivering those requests 207 00:13:54,320 --> 00:13:57,960 Speaker 1: to the artists. And she's like, oh wait a second, Like, 208 00:13:58,160 --> 00:14:03,000 Speaker 1: if I'm the middle woman, why can't I do this myself? Yeah? So, 209 00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:07,640 Speaker 1: at age twenty, she started a plastic jewelry line called 210 00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:10,440 Speaker 1: Sticky finger which I googled. I was desperately trying to 211 00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:15,840 Speaker 1: find images of Sticky Fingers jewelry and I couldn't so disappointing. Internet, 212 00:14:16,120 --> 00:14:18,560 Speaker 1: Come on, Internet, I know, don't you get disappointed on 213 00:14:18,559 --> 00:14:21,520 Speaker 1: the Internet when it just will not you know, it 214 00:14:21,520 --> 00:14:27,480 Speaker 1: doesn't have some something like Lisa Franks original Jewelry jeweled 215 00:14:27,560 --> 00:14:30,600 Speaker 1: seriously technology, Well that's just it to me. I was 216 00:14:30,640 --> 00:14:33,920 Speaker 1: just surprised that I couldn't find anything definite. I mean, 217 00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:38,960 Speaker 1: there were like things tagged jewelry Lisa Frank whatever. But like, 218 00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:41,880 Speaker 1: I was disappointed because you would think that with how 219 00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:47,320 Speaker 1: much cultural cache Lisa Frank holds, especially for people all right, 220 00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:51,800 Speaker 1: that the Internet would be covered in in jewelry sleuths 221 00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:54,320 Speaker 1: trying to find her early stuff. Well, I bet it's 222 00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:58,320 Speaker 1: because only until recently have more people started to figure 223 00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:04,040 Speaker 1: out that she is real and just as a trademark. Yeah. Um, 224 00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:09,520 Speaker 1: but sticky Fingers was very successful. She ended up selling 225 00:15:09,520 --> 00:15:14,320 Speaker 1: it Nemon's and Bloomingdale's and she she was basically living 226 00:15:14,400 --> 00:15:16,840 Speaker 1: like every real housewife's dream. Because I feel like there 227 00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:20,240 Speaker 1: is a real housewife in every city who tries to 228 00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:25,440 Speaker 1: launch something akin to a plastic jewelry line. I'm sure 229 00:15:25,560 --> 00:15:29,080 Speaker 1: much much more. No, what are you gonna do all 230 00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:31,520 Speaker 1: day other than just sit by the pool? You gonna 231 00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:35,920 Speaker 1: launch a jewelry line, get your glue sticks? And I 232 00:15:35,920 --> 00:15:38,560 Speaker 1: offended a lot of listeners right there. I'm sorry. People 233 00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:41,280 Speaker 1: who have jewelry lines, I'm like, I'm sure it's amazing, 234 00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:44,920 Speaker 1: and you do make them by the pool. But young 235 00:15:44,960 --> 00:15:49,840 Speaker 1: Lisa could not be contained to just jewelry. The whole 236 00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:56,560 Speaker 1: jewelry business. Turned her attention to stickers and buttons, and 237 00:15:56,640 --> 00:15:59,680 Speaker 1: she says that she first got the rights for Betty Boop, 238 00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:05,040 Speaker 1: Popeye and Mighty Mouse, and she says, quote, I would 239 00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:08,040 Speaker 1: put like Betty Boop on a unicorn, and that like 240 00:16:08,240 --> 00:16:11,040 Speaker 1: is part of the quote. Yes, uh, and I love 241 00:16:11,080 --> 00:16:14,520 Speaker 1: that and I want to see that because why wouldn't 242 00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:16,800 Speaker 1: you want to see Betty Boop on a unicorn? But 243 00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:21,080 Speaker 1: also there's that young Lisa entrepreneurial spirit again, where you know, 244 00:16:21,160 --> 00:16:23,720 Speaker 1: she's what twenty here? What was I doing at twenty 245 00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:27,080 Speaker 1: just being drunk somewhere at college? And here's Lisa Frank like, 246 00:16:27,640 --> 00:16:32,160 Speaker 1: oh well, nobody's really licensing these images from years past, 247 00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:35,160 Speaker 1: you know, pop culture of yore. Why don't I do 248 00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:37,040 Speaker 1: that and put it on stuff that you can put 249 00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:42,920 Speaker 1: on yourself and put those characters on unicorns. Even though 250 00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:49,200 Speaker 1: in this very recent interview with Foundations magazine that I 251 00:16:49,280 --> 00:16:53,680 Speaker 1: was thrilled to find she said at first, I didn't 252 00:16:53,720 --> 00:16:57,080 Speaker 1: want to do unicorns. The artist in me said no. 253 00:16:58,080 --> 00:17:00,880 Speaker 1: Then I thought, wait a minute, this is commercial art. 254 00:17:01,280 --> 00:17:04,000 Speaker 1: Let's do what's gonna sell. Well, that's right. Wasn't that 255 00:17:04,080 --> 00:17:06,760 Speaker 1: part of her whole deal? When she was working with 256 00:17:06,840 --> 00:17:10,399 Speaker 1: the Native American artists and their turquoise jewelry, didn't she 257 00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:14,560 Speaker 1: start making some of her own or people were putting 258 00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:17,480 Speaker 1: in requests for those artists to make unicorns and hearts 259 00:17:17,480 --> 00:17:21,000 Speaker 1: and stuff. Well, she came up with those requests. She 260 00:17:21,160 --> 00:17:23,480 Speaker 1: had the hunch of what would sell because she had been, 261 00:17:23,520 --> 00:17:27,160 Speaker 1: you know, selling to these people. So she went back 262 00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:30,880 Speaker 1: to the artisans. And I've got to say, Lisa past 263 00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:33,720 Speaker 1: Lisa nineteen seventies, Lisa, there was nothing wrong with unicorns. 264 00:17:34,040 --> 00:17:36,680 Speaker 1: Oh no, not at all. As a child, I was obsessed. 265 00:17:37,119 --> 00:17:41,080 Speaker 1: It really launched a whole empire for her um and 266 00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:45,960 Speaker 1: with that by putting by putting these Betty Boops and 267 00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:50,440 Speaker 1: Papa's on unicorns and putting those on stickers, she gets 268 00:17:50,440 --> 00:17:54,920 Speaker 1: her first contract with Spencer's Gifts. Love It. When was 269 00:17:54,920 --> 00:17:56,880 Speaker 1: the last time he thought of a Spencer's Gifts? When 270 00:17:56,920 --> 00:18:01,080 Speaker 1: I was reading for this episode, whenever I hear about 271 00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:06,159 Speaker 1: Spencer's Gifts, uh, because it happened so often, you know. Um. 272 00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:08,639 Speaker 1: But whenever I think of that store, I just think 273 00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:15,199 Speaker 1: of the smell of incense, lava lamps, black light posters, 274 00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:18,639 Speaker 1: like the back of the store that had like weed 275 00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:21,400 Speaker 1: and boobs on things where you had to be eighteen. 276 00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:25,040 Speaker 1: So many key chains. We gotta go back to Spencer. 277 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:28,520 Speaker 1: There is one at the mall around here somewhere, heavens. 278 00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:32,560 Speaker 1: But she also ran into her first business downturn when 279 00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:36,840 Speaker 1: there was a sticker slump in the night. I kid 280 00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:41,560 Speaker 1: you not, I know that was I read that little tidbit, 281 00:18:41,680 --> 00:18:44,359 Speaker 1: that historical tidbit. I had no idea about the massive 282 00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:46,440 Speaker 1: stick or slump of the nineties. I want to say 283 00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:50,200 Speaker 1: that that was one a little line in a piece 284 00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:52,639 Speaker 1: in time about her. I didn't mean for that to 285 00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:57,040 Speaker 1: rhyme there you go. Yeah, No, I mean, I just 286 00:18:57,320 --> 00:18:59,359 Speaker 1: I guess it's hard for me to imagine because I 287 00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:01,879 Speaker 1: had so many stickers when I was growing up, and 288 00:19:01,920 --> 00:19:04,320 Speaker 1: I was born in the eighties, as were you, So 289 00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:07,600 Speaker 1: it was it wasn't you bringing the sticker slump on? 290 00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:11,320 Speaker 1: Sure you were. You were supporting big sticker. Sally was like, 291 00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:13,840 Speaker 1: let's get this kid more stickers to shut her up. 292 00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:20,320 Speaker 1: I don't know. It is worth noting, though, that the 293 00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:23,560 Speaker 1: unicorn was not the only one of her like very 294 00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:28,320 Speaker 1: original designs that might be familiar to listeners. The classic 295 00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:32,840 Speaker 1: bubble gum machine was also there from the beginning because, 296 00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:37,160 Speaker 1: yet again bringing her dad into the picture, she said 297 00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:40,240 Speaker 1: she was inspired to do all the bubble gum stuff 298 00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:43,720 Speaker 1: because of an antique gumball machine her dad gave her. 299 00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:46,720 Speaker 1: And then she's like, in the same interview, she's like, Okay, 300 00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:49,360 Speaker 1: you know when you like something and then people pick 301 00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:51,600 Speaker 1: up on that you like it, and then they get 302 00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:55,040 Speaker 1: it for you, Like I have so many gumball machines 303 00:19:55,160 --> 00:19:58,240 Speaker 1: because everybody knows I love gumballs. Oh my god. So 304 00:19:58,280 --> 00:20:01,200 Speaker 1: I just imagine her house was just overrun with gumball 305 00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:06,800 Speaker 1: machine man probably dolls. I don't know. I can only imagine. Um. 306 00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:11,480 Speaker 1: I did, though, receive as a birthday gift some Lisa 307 00:20:11,560 --> 00:20:14,240 Speaker 1: Frank stationary when I was a kid. I had it too. 308 00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:19,960 Speaker 1: I treasured it and one of the sheets had the 309 00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:24,480 Speaker 1: gumball machine motif and I loved it. I'm pretty sure 310 00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:26,520 Speaker 1: I had the one with a unicorn on the top 311 00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:30,960 Speaker 1: of it. Mine was a variety pack and I would 312 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:34,800 Speaker 1: take it out every now and then and not right 313 00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:36,639 Speaker 1: on it because I had to say it for a 314 00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:42,119 Speaker 1: special occasion. I would just flip through all of the 315 00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:46,560 Speaker 1: you know, the different designs and just marvel at them, 316 00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:49,119 Speaker 1: at her art, at her art. You were a Lisa 317 00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:51,439 Speaker 1: Frank collector, just like her dad. Yeah, I mean. And 318 00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:53,880 Speaker 1: this would have been around the time when she'd gotten 319 00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:57,560 Speaker 1: through the sticker slump and the Lisa Frank salad days 320 00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:05,119 Speaker 1: had arrived. In Time magazine, the very Time magazine that 321 00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:09,080 Speaker 1: mentioned the sticker slump, reported that the Lisa Frank office 322 00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:13,720 Speaker 1: received thousands of letters from girls all the time asking 323 00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:16,520 Speaker 1: whether Lisa Frank is real, and they dubbed her the 324 00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:20,760 Speaker 1: Queen of Stickers. Interesting, the Queen of stickers that I 325 00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:24,440 Speaker 1: thought that was my title, but that's fine. Um. Yeah. 326 00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:28,200 Speaker 1: They wrote that the company expected to sell twenty million 327 00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:31,880 Speaker 1: items that year, including three and a half million stickers, 328 00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:37,040 Speaker 1: doubling the previous year's sales, and Lisa, in her interview 329 00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:39,679 Speaker 1: with Time magazine said, our company is more of an 330 00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:42,600 Speaker 1: artistic passion than just a business. And that's the thing 331 00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:46,439 Speaker 1: I feel like. Lisa has always maintained the concept of 332 00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:52,840 Speaker 1: Lisa as more of an artist than like a commercial saleswoman. 333 00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:56,920 Speaker 1: Maybe that's why she has six people working for her 334 00:21:56,960 --> 00:22:00,960 Speaker 1: now as opposed to like six hundred from back in 335 00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:05,159 Speaker 1: the day. Yeah. So, in its late nineties peak, the 336 00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:11,000 Speaker 1: company was making around sixty million dollars a year um 337 00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:13,680 Speaker 1: and she had big plans at this time, including a 338 00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:17,639 Speaker 1: Lisa Frank theme park on it, so it would be 339 00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:21,480 Speaker 1: called the Fantastic World of Lisa Frank. There was also 340 00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:24,280 Speaker 1: a TV show and adult apparel that she wanted to 341 00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:26,720 Speaker 1: get into. How adult are we talking? Were talking like 342 00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:29,960 Speaker 1: Lisa Frank lingerie. I think we're talking adult as in 343 00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:34,600 Speaker 1: like large, you know, human adult people's sizes, rather than 344 00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:40,399 Speaker 1: adult people underwear, although I'd wear it if it were 345 00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:42,320 Speaker 1: if it were a good quality There you go. I'm 346 00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:44,359 Speaker 1: just gonna go ahead and put in that request, just 347 00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:48,719 Speaker 1: float that out in the universe that if anybody selling 348 00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:53,760 Speaker 1: high quality Lisa Frank underpants, I'm down here. You go 349 00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:58,240 Speaker 1: down to clown. But then once the New Millennium arrived, 350 00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:03,520 Speaker 1: Lisa started to fall on tough times again, so in 351 00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:06,560 Speaker 1: two thousand one, the company had to pay thirty thou 352 00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:12,200 Speaker 1: dollars to the FEC for collecting kids personal information online. 353 00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:15,400 Speaker 1: I mean who even knows how the internet works, right, 354 00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:18,760 Speaker 1: Like Lisa's like here, kiddies, like fill in all of 355 00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:22,640 Speaker 1: these boxes with your information and your mother's maiden name. Yeah, 356 00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:26,800 Speaker 1: joined the online Lisa Frank fan club, the Army, the 357 00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:30,040 Speaker 1: righteous Army of Lisa Frank. Um. Yeah. So yeah, they 358 00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:34,240 Speaker 1: got a little trouble for that, and that could be 359 00:23:34,359 --> 00:23:36,560 Speaker 1: one of the reasons behind why it can be so 360 00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:40,160 Speaker 1: hard to get Lisa Frank merch on the internet. Now, yeah, 361 00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:42,800 Speaker 1: they think that that kind of made them skittish about 362 00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:45,959 Speaker 1: getting into online retail. But that was certainly not the 363 00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:50,640 Speaker 1: company's death knell, because three years later, in two thousand four, Uh, 364 00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:53,760 Speaker 1: there's a twenty fifth anniversary story in the Arizona Star 365 00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:58,720 Speaker 1: that reported Lisa Frank Inc. Was selling one hundred million 366 00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:03,520 Speaker 1: items per week, including twenty three million pencils f y 367 00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:07,680 Speaker 1: I um, and the company also boasted a magazine at 368 00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:10,840 Speaker 1: the time and their fan club where they were collecting 369 00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:14,480 Speaker 1: all these children's information without their parental consent. That good 370 00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:18,360 Speaker 1: little Lisa Frank Communist army. I know there were one 371 00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:22,720 Speaker 1: hundred thousand members, you know, so really she did have 372 00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:27,120 Speaker 1: a little army going and speaking to the newspaper James Green, 373 00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:30,560 Speaker 1: who was the CEO and Lisa Frank's husband at the time, 374 00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:35,679 Speaker 1: said we feel like we're in a dream making company. Um, 375 00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:38,600 Speaker 1: which is well, that's great until you know, like hundreds 376 00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:41,960 Speaker 1: of people got laid off, and Lisa Frank was like, 377 00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:47,000 Speaker 1: you know, it's fine. I'm tough but nice. Yeah, I 378 00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:50,040 Speaker 1: mean there's yeah, this this kind of glowing feature piece 379 00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:53,120 Speaker 1: in The Arizona Star just mentioned as a side now 380 00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:59,200 Speaker 1: that there had been some downsizing at Lisa Frank UM. 381 00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:02,840 Speaker 1: And I largely blame I mean, yes, Lisa Frank, but 382 00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:08,320 Speaker 1: also James Green. Yeah. This guy sounds like he is 383 00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:10,920 Speaker 1: the absolute worst. And I say is because if you 384 00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:13,040 Speaker 1: look at his current company, he still looks like he's 385 00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:17,439 Speaker 1: the worst. He converted from Judaism to Christianity, supposedly and 386 00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:21,320 Speaker 1: now sells like all of this Christian swag. And it's 387 00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:23,600 Speaker 1: so funny to look at the comments under stories about it, 388 00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:26,439 Speaker 1: because everybody who has worked for Lisa and James is like, 389 00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:31,240 Speaker 1: ain't no way, ain't no way. But yeah, he he 390 00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:34,760 Speaker 1: started out at Lisa Frank Inc. Working under Lisa Frank 391 00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:38,680 Speaker 1: as a graphic designer right or as an artist. Yeah, 392 00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:41,520 Speaker 1: So he was hired in nine two as the company's 393 00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:46,919 Speaker 1: first in house illustrator. UM and things got hot and 394 00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:52,840 Speaker 1: heavy up in that that unicorn office. UM. So Frank 395 00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:56,080 Speaker 1: and Green strike up a romance and what do you know, 396 00:25:56,880 --> 00:26:01,480 Speaker 1: Green zooms right up the corporate ladder and she names 397 00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:06,480 Speaker 1: him president of the company. Two years later, they get 398 00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:13,080 Speaker 1: married and they buy a garish Tucson mansion with a 399 00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:17,320 Speaker 1: private jet, which I can only hope has Lisa Frank 400 00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:20,840 Speaker 1: characters and blazoned across it. There there is this house 401 00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:25,359 Speaker 1: in Marietta, Georgia, um, really Nearrow where I grew up. 402 00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:32,600 Speaker 1: That is bright pink stucco. It has a pond out 403 00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:35,760 Speaker 1: front with a fountain like one of those giant like 404 00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:39,040 Speaker 1: spews water straight up in the air from the middle 405 00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:44,040 Speaker 1: of the pond geyser fountains basically, and a giant swan 406 00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:50,040 Speaker 1: paddle boat. And that's just what I pictured when I 407 00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:55,200 Speaker 1: think about Lisa Frank's house, because it has to be pink, right. Oh, yeah, 408 00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:57,440 Speaker 1: I'm gonna I'm just gonna say that it is. I've 409 00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:00,000 Speaker 1: also driven by that house. I know exactly the house 410 00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:04,520 Speaker 1: that you're talking about, and yeah, I love that. You 411 00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:06,840 Speaker 1: know what else it is? Yeah? How could how could 412 00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:09,359 Speaker 1: anyone forget that the pink house with the swan paddle 413 00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:12,000 Speaker 1: boat in front of it. Listeners are like, what are 414 00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:17,879 Speaker 1: they talking about? Um? Also quick side question, who do 415 00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:19,879 Speaker 1: you think would play James Green in a movie? And 416 00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:25,000 Speaker 1: I only asked the cruise Oh yeah, tell well, James 417 00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:30,240 Speaker 1: Green is of um shorter stature hashtag. Not that there's 418 00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:34,280 Speaker 1: anything wrong with that um. But to me, like reading 419 00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:38,520 Speaker 1: all of these articles and research about Lisa and James 420 00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:41,399 Speaker 1: and how he sounds terrible, but also like how almost 421 00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:43,840 Speaker 1: obsessed she is with her father and his role in 422 00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:46,960 Speaker 1: her career and her background and everything. I get the 423 00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:53,360 Speaker 1: impression that like she was Katie Holmes to James Green's 424 00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:57,840 Speaker 1: Tom Cruise. Yeah, like some there was some sort of 425 00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:01,639 Speaker 1: like early life pattern volving around men. It was clearly 426 00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:04,040 Speaker 1: set up. And then she ends up with James Green 427 00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:07,719 Speaker 1: and he's probably a master manipulator, because how else do 428 00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:10,760 Speaker 1: you like wind up with the CTRE and not the 429 00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:13,200 Speaker 1: CEO but the founder of the company who then like 430 00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:17,240 Speaker 1: makes you the CEO and president and all the meanwhile 431 00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:21,160 Speaker 1: you're a big old jerk. Well, and he doesn't sound 432 00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:23,560 Speaker 1: like a jerk so far, you know, Like right now, 433 00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:27,800 Speaker 1: it's they're living in their their pink Tucson mansion with 434 00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:33,080 Speaker 1: the swan paddle boat. We can only imagine things seem happy, 435 00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:36,720 Speaker 1: go lucky. Lisa has some kids. She's like, you know what, 436 00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:40,000 Speaker 1: I'm just gonna step back from daily operations. I just 437 00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:43,760 Speaker 1: want to focus on raising the kids. By the way, 438 00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:47,959 Speaker 1: James Green here is a forty nine percent stock share 439 00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:50,240 Speaker 1: in my company. I think they were the only two 440 00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:54,160 Speaker 1: stockholders in Lisa Frank Inc. Sounds like a bad idea. 441 00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:58,560 Speaker 1: UM side note, her kids were named Hunter and Forest. 442 00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:00,880 Speaker 1: Keep in mind their last name is Green, Hunter Green 443 00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:06,320 Speaker 1: and Forest Green. And they, of course, because Lisa bases 444 00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:09,520 Speaker 1: her characters on either herself or people in her life. 445 00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:16,000 Speaker 1: UM and she uh created a leopard cub and a 446 00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:19,800 Speaker 1: tiger cub named Hunter in Forest in honor of her 447 00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:22,280 Speaker 1: son's I do love that leopard cub. The leopard cub 448 00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:25,120 Speaker 1: is cute. It's very cute. But what is not cute 449 00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:29,360 Speaker 1: is what's about to happen with James Green. We're going 450 00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:31,680 Speaker 1: to talk about that when we come right back from 451 00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:45,000 Speaker 1: a quick break. So, Caroline, I think that this might 452 00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:49,240 Speaker 1: be one of the gossipyist is that a word episodes 453 00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:51,840 Speaker 1: of stuff I've never told you this just just reads 454 00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:56,920 Speaker 1: like a tabloid. Well, yeah, because Lisa and particularly James 455 00:29:57,200 --> 00:30:02,880 Speaker 1: have been so private, relatively private. Um, And so what 456 00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:08,760 Speaker 1: you end up hearing and reading is reports from former 457 00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:16,000 Speaker 1: Lisa frank ankle workers, and those reports are not exactly glowing. Yeah, 458 00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:20,840 Speaker 1: so um in Tracy Igan Morrissey, who was then a 459 00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:25,360 Speaker 1: writer for Jezebel, wrote this piece that I highly recommend 460 00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:31,080 Speaker 1: listeners read called Inside the Rainbow Gulag the Technicolor Rise 461 00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:34,400 Speaker 1: and Fall of Lisa Frank in which she kind of 462 00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:40,280 Speaker 1: reveals the house of horrors that was and still kind 463 00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:43,920 Speaker 1: of is. It sounds like working at Lisa Frank. She 464 00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:47,560 Speaker 1: interviewed a former illustrator named Jacob who was there for 465 00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:52,280 Speaker 1: four years, who said, of course, from the outside it's colorful. 466 00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:55,000 Speaker 1: You've got the rainbow, the stars, the hearts on the building, 467 00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:58,239 Speaker 1: the statue of the panda. But inside it was like 468 00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:02,240 Speaker 1: an abusive alcoholic holme see oh, and I was haven't 469 00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:05,440 Speaker 1: trust me. I was having flashbacks to my first job 470 00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:07,480 Speaker 1: that I had when I moved to Atlanta, when I 471 00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:09,480 Speaker 1: worked And you can go back and listen to our 472 00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:16,360 Speaker 1: psychopath episode in which I might insinuate a few things Um. 473 00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:20,400 Speaker 1: But yeah, when you work for like a literally crazy 474 00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:23,920 Speaker 1: set of people. Um. And again, I'm not saying that 475 00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:28,840 Speaker 1: Lisa Frank and or James Green literally had mental problems, 476 00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:31,960 Speaker 1: although it sounds like there were some, like I said, 477 00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:38,320 Speaker 1: unhappy patterns. It is like working for an abusive alcoholic. Yeah. 478 00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:41,960 Speaker 1: I mean she developed a reputation as the worst employer 479 00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:45,600 Speaker 1: in Tucson because of the hostile work environment, and there 480 00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:51,000 Speaker 1: were so many allegations of verbal abuse. Uh. Caroline not 481 00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:54,520 Speaker 1: not named not you M a Tucson resident who considered 482 00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:57,640 Speaker 1: applying at Lisa Frank because apparently, there Lisa Frank is 483 00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:00,680 Speaker 1: always hiring, because Lisa franc is always firing. Um. So 484 00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:04,680 Speaker 1: she told Jezebel every person who ever worked there seemed 485 00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:08,280 Speaker 1: to have a case of PTSD from it, rainbow goulog 486 00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:12,560 Speaker 1: is really an apt description. Yeah. And James Green in 487 00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:17,160 Speaker 1: particular was super prone to being verbally abusive to workers. 488 00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:20,600 Speaker 1: He had all of these outbursts and fits of rage, 489 00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:23,920 Speaker 1: maybe fists of rage as well, but particularly fits of rage. 490 00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:29,200 Speaker 1: And he specifically like would not learn new employees names 491 00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:31,000 Speaker 1: so he can make up nicknames for them, which just 492 00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:33,520 Speaker 1: makes me think of like an even worse doctor House. 493 00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:38,280 Speaker 1: I don't get that references. I've never I've never watched 494 00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:40,440 Speaker 1: House such a good show, although it does get a 495 00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:44,680 Speaker 1: little um repetitive, but he calls his like residents or 496 00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:48,760 Speaker 1: interns or whatever. Just the number. Oh, like Olivia wild 497 00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:52,840 Speaker 1: character was six, I think, um yeah. Not helping matters 498 00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:58,600 Speaker 1: was that he was allegedly on lots and lots of cocine. Uh. 499 00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:01,360 Speaker 1: And that's something that Lisa Frank of late has been 500 00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:03,960 Speaker 1: like everybody thinks I'm on drugs just because I paint 501 00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:08,800 Speaker 1: like psychedelic unicorns. Well Lisa wasn't even in the office 502 00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:10,840 Speaker 1: around this time. Well yeah, she would only pop her 503 00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:13,239 Speaker 1: head in every once in a while. But who was 504 00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:17,760 Speaker 1: there was this woman Rhonda Rowlet, which that doesn't even 505 00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:23,680 Speaker 1: sound real, but she was supposedly Green's work mistress, and 506 00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:28,840 Speaker 1: now they run that weird like fake Christian merchandise company. 507 00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:32,600 Speaker 1: Rhonda runs it with him. Yeah. So Rhonda I believe 508 00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:36,520 Speaker 1: was his Was she his executive assistant or another sea 509 00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:39,600 Speaker 1: level she was. I don't think she was the assistant. 510 00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:42,479 Speaker 1: I think she was another manager. So the way former 511 00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:47,000 Speaker 1: Rainbow goolog employees would tell it, James and Ronda would 512 00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:49,880 Speaker 1: just do mountains of cocaine and burst out of the 513 00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:53,920 Speaker 1: office just yelling at people. See okay, side note, you 514 00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:58,240 Speaker 1: didn't watch Vinyl? Did you know? It's all right? It 515 00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:01,520 Speaker 1: got it probably got canceled for a reason. But I 516 00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:04,000 Speaker 1: would be much more inclined to watch it if instead 517 00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:07,920 Speaker 1: of having the record company executive do mounds of cocaine 518 00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:11,520 Speaker 1: and run around yelling at musicians, if it was Lisa 519 00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:15,120 Speaker 1: Frank's ex husband, if it was Lisa Frank and or 520 00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:18,279 Speaker 1: her husband and or his mistress like running around the 521 00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:22,479 Speaker 1: Lisa Frank headquarters yelling at people, I'd watched that. Maybe 522 00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:24,239 Speaker 1: if it was like a TV movie, I'd watch it 523 00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:30,440 Speaker 1: instead of Vinyl would be just called stickers. Stickers, um, 524 00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:34,799 Speaker 1: But I mean in terms of the hostile work environment 525 00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:39,560 Speaker 1: that Green and Roll it reinforced. There were these spoken 526 00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:44,080 Speaker 1: and unspoken rules, such as co workers not really being 527 00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:46,879 Speaker 1: allowed to speak to each other. That wasn't very cool. 528 00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:51,480 Speaker 1: Phone calls were recorded, No outside visitors were allowed in. 529 00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:55,080 Speaker 1: They offered no sick days. I see, I literally feel 530 00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:57,600 Speaker 1: like you're describing my first job in Atlanta. Anyway, go on, 531 00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:01,439 Speaker 1: you didn't have sick days. M Taking them was fround upon. 532 00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:04,439 Speaker 1: Our internet use was tracked we weren't allowed to talk 533 00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:08,920 Speaker 1: to each other. Keep going. Well, if you were taking 534 00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:11,480 Speaker 1: a sick day and you were chit chatting a little 535 00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:15,200 Speaker 1: too much with your neighbor, you might be called out 536 00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:20,120 Speaker 1: in the bi monthly Frankly Speaking, which was the office 537 00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:25,520 Speaker 1: newsletter that Lisa and James, I guess kind of co authored, 538 00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:30,400 Speaker 1: where they would passive aggressively be like, frankly speaking, Susan 539 00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:34,320 Speaker 1: and accounting should really find a new line of work 540 00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:38,839 Speaker 1: at my job. Like past regressive emails did go out 541 00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:41,239 Speaker 1: like and the company was so small that you knew 542 00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:43,839 Speaker 1: if somebody had done something, and so like an email 543 00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:47,040 Speaker 1: would go out and be like, by the way, you know, 544 00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:51,400 Speaker 1: for anyone who is considering using the last of the 545 00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:55,040 Speaker 1: k cups in the kitchen, it might be up to 546 00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:58,160 Speaker 1: you next time to refill them. Frankly speaking, it would 547 00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:02,840 Speaker 1: be thoughtful. I'll so huge missed opportunity that Lisa frank 548 00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:07,160 Speaker 1: did not start a talk show called Frankly Speaking, because 549 00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:09,399 Speaker 1: I would watch at least a few minutes of that. 550 00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:15,000 Speaker 1: At least I would watch minutes whole minutes well, and 551 00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:17,360 Speaker 1: these employees, of course, would try to get out of 552 00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:24,080 Speaker 1: the company. But severance packages and final paychecks were often withheld, 553 00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:28,919 Speaker 1: and all of us added up to extremely high turnover. Yeah, 554 00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:32,320 Speaker 1: they would. They would fight like people in unemployment. They yeah, 555 00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:36,640 Speaker 1: which as did my former company. Um yeah, so it's 556 00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:39,520 Speaker 1: your old boss, Lisa, Frank, I'm starting to think so 557 00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:43,440 Speaker 1: I'm starting well, maybe maybe James Green h was cross 558 00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:48,920 Speaker 1: dressing as my former boss. Um. The plot thickens, seriously. 559 00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:53,360 Speaker 1: The plot thickens well, not so surprisingly, Frank and Green 560 00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:57,480 Speaker 1: divorce in two thousand five, and Lisa reclaims her spot 561 00:36:57,480 --> 00:37:00,919 Speaker 1: as CEO, and apparently, according to some of the people 562 00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:04,359 Speaker 1: who had worked there leading up for like years leading 563 00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:07,839 Speaker 1: up to the divorce, she'd pull people aside in these 564 00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:12,160 Speaker 1: really awkward moments and be like, hey, so, like if 565 00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:14,319 Speaker 1: James and I got a divorce, like, would you come 566 00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:16,600 Speaker 1: work for me or would you stay with him? Oh? Yeah, 567 00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:20,360 Speaker 1: they made all their employees pick sides. Well, and that 568 00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:23,080 Speaker 1: was after so when she filed for divorce, that's when 569 00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:26,200 Speaker 1: Green went into overdrive and was like cornering people at 570 00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:30,800 Speaker 1: the office saying things like, um, you know you're gonna 571 00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:33,640 Speaker 1: work for me, right, and just being really super paranoid 572 00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:39,600 Speaker 1: and um possessive, grinding his teeth cocaine wringing his nose. Um. 573 00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:42,759 Speaker 1: I really hope that they hashed out some of their 574 00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:49,840 Speaker 1: feelings too, in really contentious issues of frankly speaking, well, 575 00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:53,400 Speaker 1: James Green and his CEO column would be like frankly speaking, 576 00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:59,120 Speaker 1: my my wife should find a new place to live. Um. 577 00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:04,360 Speaker 1: Once the divorce, though, happened and Lisa took over as CEO, 578 00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:07,640 Speaker 1: it's not like she developed the company. I mean she 579 00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:14,000 Speaker 1: spent the next three years on nine lawsuits involving James Green, 580 00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:18,160 Speaker 1: Rhonda Rowlett, and Lisa Frank the company because Frank and 581 00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:22,240 Speaker 1: Green were the only stockholders in the company, and also 582 00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:27,000 Speaker 1: James Green's lawyers tried to allege that Lisa had created 583 00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:30,920 Speaker 1: the hostile work environment, forcing employees to choose. Quote, this 584 00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:33,480 Speaker 1: is a quote from the lawyer which side their bread 585 00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:38,160 Speaker 1: is buttered on? Like, I mean, this is stranger than fiction. 586 00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:41,360 Speaker 1: You couldn't write this stuff. I know, it's so weird 587 00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:46,759 Speaker 1: and it is gossipy because it's kind of nuts. Um. 588 00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:50,680 Speaker 1: And but but anyway, like that makes since then, why 589 00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:53,560 Speaker 1: you haven't been able to go get those coloring books 590 00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:56,840 Speaker 1: and tarot cards and whatever the past ten years because 591 00:38:57,120 --> 00:39:02,000 Speaker 1: Lisa was busy. Yeah, Lisa was getting busy reclaiming her life, 592 00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:06,640 Speaker 1: getting things back together, although not really because as of December, 593 00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:11,200 Speaker 1: annual revenue was down to just over two million dollars 594 00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:15,880 Speaker 1: and all of the retail stores had closed. Corporate employees 595 00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:19,720 Speaker 1: dropped from three fifty to six. Where were these retail stores. 596 00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:22,279 Speaker 1: I have a feeling that was back in the nineties. 597 00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:25,920 Speaker 1: I don't remember them in any of the the American 598 00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:28,880 Speaker 1: malls that I frequented. Well, maybe we didn't live in 599 00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:33,279 Speaker 1: fancy enough cities, oh you know, but yeah, there were 600 00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:37,520 Speaker 1: definitely retail stores. Um. There was that old commercial starring 601 00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:41,440 Speaker 1: Milacunas where she she's like, Lisa Frank is the best, 602 00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:43,400 Speaker 1: and then she does a spin and I think it 603 00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:48,160 Speaker 1: is magically transformed into a penguin. She's magically transported. I 604 00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:51,920 Speaker 1: should have said to the Lisa Frank store that's just 605 00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:56,439 Speaker 1: filled with Lisa Frank. Sorry, my my imaginary commercials way better. 606 00:39:56,600 --> 00:40:00,120 Speaker 1: I would love to see Milacunas spin and trans were 607 00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:02,880 Speaker 1: I at Lisa Frank penguin, not even young me. Lacuna 608 00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:05,919 Speaker 1: is just like, now why not? Why not? She can 609 00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:09,160 Speaker 1: take Ashton Kutture with her, and then you've got the 610 00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:13,040 Speaker 1: massive Lisa Frank headquarters building in Tucson, which used to 611 00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:15,560 Speaker 1: house all of those hundreds of people and now only 612 00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:18,399 Speaker 1: holds like six in a room. They might be chained 613 00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:22,200 Speaker 1: to their desks, We're not sure. Um, but as of 614 00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:26,760 Speaker 1: despite the fact that there's like a handful of humans 615 00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:29,200 Speaker 1: in the building, they still have those giant Lisa franc 616 00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:34,000 Speaker 1: three dimensional statues as opposed to flat statues, including the 617 00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:37,960 Speaker 1: giant unicorn that stands at the entrance to the headquarters, 618 00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:40,840 Speaker 1: although apparently it's horn is missing. Yeah, I mean to me, 619 00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:45,880 Speaker 1: that just crystallizes the demise of the company. If a 620 00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:51,120 Speaker 1: Lisa Frank unicorn horn is missing, you know, like that's 621 00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:55,160 Speaker 1: like the given up. It's like the movie Legend. Anybody, 622 00:40:55,320 --> 00:40:58,600 Speaker 1: I'm getting none of your pop culture pop culture references 623 00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:03,439 Speaker 1: episode people who Yeah it was. It's a super nerd 624 00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:07,320 Speaker 1: movie also starring Tom Cruise. He's like twenty in that movie. 625 00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:12,560 Speaker 1: He wears the little Sassy outfit. I gotta watch this, 626 00:41:12,760 --> 00:41:15,560 Speaker 1: also starring Mia Sarah and a pair of unicorns. Tim 627 00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:19,000 Speaker 1: Curry is the Devil. It's real good. I don't know, 628 00:41:19,120 --> 00:41:22,919 Speaker 1: but I own I own it, like the special edition 629 00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:26,560 Speaker 1: on DVD. Oh man, I know what I'm doing. This afternoon. Um, 630 00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:30,400 Speaker 1: it is leaving work watching Legend. Don't tell my boss 631 00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:33,360 Speaker 1: so good. Um. But it's not like Lisa Frank hasn't 632 00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:40,839 Speaker 1: tried to breathe new life into her merchandise. In they 633 00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:44,319 Speaker 1: debuted a line of characters that looked a lot like 634 00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:47,279 Speaker 1: Brats Dolls, that's brats with a Z, that had the 635 00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:49,560 Speaker 1: you know, like the big eyes and the bubble heads 636 00:41:49,600 --> 00:41:54,719 Speaker 1: and the big lips, and like sexy bodies. And there 637 00:41:54,840 --> 00:42:00,280 Speaker 1: was a writer who had stumbled across these sexy Lisa 638 00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:05,080 Speaker 1: characters with names like Razzle, Dazzle and uh jelly Bean. 639 00:42:05,120 --> 00:42:09,280 Speaker 1: I don't know, and I know they did have ridiculous names. 640 00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:14,160 Speaker 1: And she was so distraught because she raised a good 641 00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:17,120 Speaker 1: point that one of the best things about Lisa Frank 642 00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:21,600 Speaker 1: was that it was all animals and inanimate objects, you know, 643 00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:25,440 Speaker 1: like there was no room for negative self comparison. You 644 00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:29,279 Speaker 1: just had this imaginary world where you could twirl and 645 00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:33,400 Speaker 1: become a penguin if you wanted to, or you know, 646 00:42:34,160 --> 00:42:36,320 Speaker 1: reach up in the air and grab a flying hot 647 00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:42,360 Speaker 1: dog and eat it. I was totally not expecting, but 648 00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:46,440 Speaker 1: I love it. Um. Sounds like a dream world. Um. 649 00:42:46,480 --> 00:42:50,320 Speaker 1: And plus, you know, Lisa Frank's drawings meant so much too. Kids. 650 00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:57,440 Speaker 1: They were so brightly, brightly colored. And and who doesn't love, 651 00:42:57,520 --> 00:43:00,879 Speaker 1: like you said, a golden retriever. You some ice cream, 652 00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:05,680 Speaker 1: even though it's really bad for dogs, don't do that? Um? 653 00:43:05,719 --> 00:43:09,239 Speaker 1: You know who who wouldn't be attracted to that? And 654 00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:12,520 Speaker 1: we haven't even mentioned the dolphins. I know the dolphins 655 00:43:12,520 --> 00:43:15,600 Speaker 1: and the rainbow water well. And and that was one 656 00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:19,399 Speaker 1: thing that I was hoping to find but couldn't, which 657 00:43:19,480 --> 00:43:23,400 Speaker 1: was a little academic analysis of of the appeal of 658 00:43:23,480 --> 00:43:26,880 Speaker 1: Lisa Frank because it was so specific and so strong, 659 00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:30,680 Speaker 1: and just remembering how I would sit there for god 660 00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:35,400 Speaker 1: knows how long, just staring at stationary Yeah, what was 661 00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:37,600 Speaker 1: it like? What was so magical about it? To you? 662 00:43:38,239 --> 00:43:42,000 Speaker 1: There was just something very special about it. And I 663 00:43:42,040 --> 00:43:47,400 Speaker 1: did appreciate the overt girl nous of it. Um And 664 00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:50,960 Speaker 1: I don't know, it was just like I guess it was. 665 00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:55,040 Speaker 1: There was that element of fantasy as well, where she 666 00:43:55,400 --> 00:44:01,680 Speaker 1: kind of presented in uh, just I pop way all 667 00:44:01,760 --> 00:44:06,319 Speaker 1: of my favorite things minus cheetah print. I wasn't super 668 00:44:06,360 --> 00:44:09,320 Speaker 1: into the cheetah print, but you know, like gumball machines, 669 00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:16,040 Speaker 1: those were cool puppies, I'll take them, dolphins, I'll ride one. Um. Yeah, 670 00:44:16,040 --> 00:44:18,000 Speaker 1: and this is sort of this sort of gets back 671 00:44:18,040 --> 00:44:21,359 Speaker 1: to what I wanted to hit on in our Children's 672 00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:25,440 Speaker 1: Imagination episode that we did about a year ago. Um, 673 00:44:25,560 --> 00:44:30,400 Speaker 1: there is something about those bright colors and those shiny 674 00:44:30,440 --> 00:44:33,600 Speaker 1: like everything was made to look almost plastic in these 675 00:44:33,640 --> 00:44:37,120 Speaker 1: two dimensional drawings. And so what I was also curious 676 00:44:37,160 --> 00:44:41,520 Speaker 1: about back in that episode two was like, why when 677 00:44:41,520 --> 00:44:44,200 Speaker 1: you're a child and you look at something, does it 678 00:44:44,360 --> 00:44:48,360 Speaker 1: leap off the page and seems so real and fantastical 679 00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:51,360 Speaker 1: and amazing, And you can look at the same drawing 680 00:44:51,480 --> 00:44:53,160 Speaker 1: as an adult and be like, oh, it's just like 681 00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:57,120 Speaker 1: a purple cat or whatever, because life makes you cynical. Yeah, 682 00:44:57,239 --> 00:44:59,520 Speaker 1: And I don't know what it is like. But you know, 683 00:44:59,560 --> 00:45:04,120 Speaker 1: I did some reading on children and colors trying to 684 00:45:04,200 --> 00:45:08,719 Speaker 1: figure out, you know, two children look at and and 685 00:45:08,840 --> 00:45:12,640 Speaker 1: feel about colors differently than grown ups do and and 686 00:45:13,520 --> 00:45:18,160 Speaker 1: not really, It's just that children are very attracted to bright, vibrant, 687 00:45:18,200 --> 00:45:22,240 Speaker 1: supersaturated colors, and you know, they have a different favorite 688 00:45:22,280 --> 00:45:25,520 Speaker 1: color every week, depending on what they want their identity 689 00:45:25,560 --> 00:45:29,719 Speaker 1: to be. Um. But I I couldn't really hit on 690 00:45:30,600 --> 00:45:34,359 Speaker 1: anything that made it clear why children would be so 691 00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:37,520 Speaker 1: obsessed with Lisa Frank, do you think that for girls 692 00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:42,759 Speaker 1: in particular, because clearly this was marketed and consumed largely 693 00:45:43,080 --> 00:45:45,520 Speaker 1: by girls. Do you think there was also the element 694 00:45:45,560 --> 00:45:51,399 Speaker 1: of just unabashed appreciation of girly nests. Yeah. And and 695 00:45:51,440 --> 00:45:55,759 Speaker 1: cute Yeah, like like no shame in that cute game, 696 00:45:56,280 --> 00:45:59,840 Speaker 1: you know, like they're I wonder if that's part of 697 00:45:59,880 --> 00:46:03,279 Speaker 1: it too, But I mean, I think that clearly what 698 00:46:03,320 --> 00:46:08,239 Speaker 1: we're saying is that our listeners who are in academia 699 00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:11,759 Speaker 1: have a job to do. Absolutely. Um, I would actually 700 00:46:12,080 --> 00:46:16,520 Speaker 1: pay the premium to read that paper on one of 701 00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:20,520 Speaker 1: those academic journal websites to have the paywalls. I'd pay it. Yeah, 702 00:46:20,719 --> 00:46:23,279 Speaker 1: I read it. I'd read more than the abstract. UM. 703 00:46:23,480 --> 00:46:26,360 Speaker 1: I do want to put this out there though, Lisa 704 00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:30,879 Speaker 1: on Lisa before we wrap up this episode, because UM, 705 00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:35,560 Speaker 1: I don't want to entirely disparage you know, Lisa's vision, 706 00:46:36,400 --> 00:46:40,759 Speaker 1: because she still takes it very seriously and you can 707 00:46:40,800 --> 00:46:45,080 Speaker 1: tell in this Foundation's magazine interview, which is focused on 708 00:46:46,200 --> 00:46:51,920 Speaker 1: her art, her as an artist in particular, that, um 709 00:46:51,960 --> 00:46:55,480 Speaker 1: that she is really passionate about about her work. I 710 00:46:55,480 --> 00:47:01,120 Speaker 1: mean her. She does say that her artspirations include Jasper John's, 711 00:47:01,239 --> 00:47:06,200 Speaker 1: Margaret Keene, Davis Cone, Peter Max. I mean she she 712 00:47:06,320 --> 00:47:10,799 Speaker 1: has an art history like knowledge and appreciation. Um. And 713 00:47:10,840 --> 00:47:14,240 Speaker 1: she said, my true passion is art. So I don't 714 00:47:14,280 --> 00:47:18,040 Speaker 1: want to just put trash out there, right, but I 715 00:47:18,640 --> 00:47:21,920 Speaker 1: think that in the process of selling all those licensing rights, 716 00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:28,239 Speaker 1: Lisa's put some trash out there. Oh, I know. Well, so, 717 00:47:29,320 --> 00:47:33,120 Speaker 1: but we can still enjoy her. Oh, we can absolutely 718 00:47:33,280 --> 00:47:37,320 Speaker 1: still enjoy her. I mean, just but learning the soap 719 00:47:37,360 --> 00:47:42,920 Speaker 1: opera behind the merchandise that I think was a hallmark 720 00:47:43,040 --> 00:47:49,280 Speaker 1: of a lot of nineties kids, childhoods, the dark story 721 00:47:49,360 --> 00:47:54,360 Speaker 1: behind the rainbow animals. Yeah, it's like revealing the dark 722 00:47:54,400 --> 00:47:59,560 Speaker 1: corners of the unicorn stalls and the bubblegum machines that 723 00:47:59,600 --> 00:48:04,200 Speaker 1: are act They just filled with poison, emotional poison, a 724 00:48:04,239 --> 00:48:08,960 Speaker 1: lot of emotional and cocaine. I'm so glad she and 725 00:48:09,160 --> 00:48:12,840 Speaker 1: James got divorced, I know. And and here's the thing, Um, 726 00:48:12,920 --> 00:48:16,319 Speaker 1: she rarely does interviews. She only did that interview with 727 00:48:16,400 --> 00:48:20,759 Speaker 1: Urban Outfitters that we referenced earlier in the podcast, because briefly, 728 00:48:21,080 --> 00:48:23,799 Speaker 1: I think it was in two thousand thirteen, She did 729 00:48:23,880 --> 00:48:28,880 Speaker 1: a licensing deal with Urban and they sold some some 730 00:48:29,080 --> 00:48:33,160 Speaker 1: nostalgia merge um, but I think that fizzled pretty quickly. 731 00:48:33,719 --> 00:48:36,000 Speaker 1: She has a reputation not only to be difficult to 732 00:48:36,040 --> 00:48:39,879 Speaker 1: work with in house, but also contractually. She gets kind 733 00:48:39,880 --> 00:48:45,319 Speaker 1: of flighty. Yeah. I think she sounds like um, an 734 00:48:45,440 --> 00:48:53,760 Speaker 1: artist entrepreneur who probably needs a good um stable of 735 00:48:54,440 --> 00:48:57,680 Speaker 1: business people around her who get the mission, get the gist, 736 00:48:58,000 --> 00:49:02,640 Speaker 1: and will actually maybe be the buffer. Sounds like her 737 00:49:02,680 --> 00:49:06,120 Speaker 1: and everyone else. It sounds like you are writing yourself 738 00:49:06,160 --> 00:49:10,120 Speaker 1: a little cover letter there, Caroline Lisa Frank I heard 739 00:49:10,160 --> 00:49:13,920 Speaker 1: you're crazy. No, But the thing is, I mean, how 740 00:49:14,160 --> 00:49:16,160 Speaker 1: it's got to be hard no matter who you are, 741 00:49:16,320 --> 00:49:22,959 Speaker 1: too long term capitalized on like a retail fad. Yeah, 742 00:49:23,040 --> 00:49:26,400 Speaker 1: I mean, how far can you ride that unicorn? I 743 00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:32,239 Speaker 1: don't know. Does it have wings twist? I don't know. 744 00:49:32,280 --> 00:49:35,280 Speaker 1: I mean, I think nostalgia. Nostalgia will get you pretty 745 00:49:35,320 --> 00:49:37,440 Speaker 1: far for a little bit. But I do think the 746 00:49:37,480 --> 00:49:40,560 Speaker 1: fact that she has like literally been unable to saturate 747 00:49:40,600 --> 00:49:44,359 Speaker 1: the market in the past twenty years for the best part, 748 00:49:44,480 --> 00:49:49,160 Speaker 1: has like kept her. It's kept people wanting more. Oh yeah, 749 00:49:49,200 --> 00:49:52,680 Speaker 1: I mean, and just judging by the response to that 750 00:49:52,760 --> 00:49:58,000 Speaker 1: coloring book, which was picked up by every internet outlet. 751 00:49:58,200 --> 00:50:01,279 Speaker 1: It seems like I'm going to get one. The news 752 00:50:01,320 --> 00:50:04,560 Speaker 1: went viral. Get yourself to Dollar General, Girl, pick you up. 753 00:50:05,040 --> 00:50:07,799 Speaker 1: But they're already out. I saw a photo of one 754 00:50:08,400 --> 00:50:12,120 Speaker 1: um online, so definitely by the time this podcast is airing, 755 00:50:12,320 --> 00:50:15,000 Speaker 1: they should be out. Well, you know, I've got a 756 00:50:15,040 --> 00:50:18,640 Speaker 1: vacation coming up. Maybe I can get a coloring book 757 00:50:18,640 --> 00:50:22,320 Speaker 1: instead of reading adult books with words like adult books 758 00:50:22,320 --> 00:50:24,600 Speaker 1: as in grown up, or adult books as in your 759 00:50:24,600 --> 00:50:27,640 Speaker 1: your mom's romance novels. Anyway, so I can't wait to 760 00:50:27,680 --> 00:50:36,240 Speaker 1: hear from listeners. Yes both. So what are our final 761 00:50:36,280 --> 00:50:41,640 Speaker 1: thoughts on Lisa frank You know, I mean I I 762 00:50:42,040 --> 00:50:44,080 Speaker 1: you know, as much reading as we did, and as 763 00:50:44,160 --> 00:50:50,600 Speaker 1: much as I completely empathize with the abused workers of 764 00:50:50,680 --> 00:50:53,400 Speaker 1: Lisa frank Ink like, I feel that there's a little 765 00:50:53,400 --> 00:50:57,560 Speaker 1: soft spot for Lisa herself because she just wanted to 766 00:50:57,600 --> 00:51:01,640 Speaker 1: follow that rainbow dream and and she got mixed up 767 00:51:01,640 --> 00:51:05,239 Speaker 1: with a bad guy along the way and made some 768 00:51:05,680 --> 00:51:08,680 Speaker 1: not so great business decisions. I do wish she would 769 00:51:08,760 --> 00:51:12,200 Speaker 1: learn her lesson, though, and be nicer to employees and 770 00:51:12,360 --> 00:51:15,919 Speaker 1: companies that she's working with. Yeah, but I don't know, 771 00:51:16,239 --> 00:51:18,800 Speaker 1: Maybe maybe we're being selfish and wanting more from Lisa 772 00:51:19,520 --> 00:51:22,440 Speaker 1: than Lisa has to give Lisa and Lisa, I mean 773 00:51:22,440 --> 00:51:30,839 Speaker 1: frankly speaking with that, listeners, Yeah, get us out of here. 774 00:51:31,000 --> 00:51:33,239 Speaker 1: Know that that was the perfect way to segue to 775 00:51:33,680 --> 00:51:37,120 Speaker 1: asking listeners for their Lisa Frank thoughts. Does anyone have 776 00:51:37,160 --> 00:51:40,000 Speaker 1: a theory on the appeal of Lisa Frank? Is anyone 777 00:51:40,000 --> 00:51:43,040 Speaker 1: else excited to get that coloring book? And has anyone 778 00:51:43,080 --> 00:51:46,480 Speaker 1: else worked for Lisa franc or know someone who has 779 00:51:46,480 --> 00:51:48,920 Speaker 1: worked for Lisa Franca has a story to share, Please 780 00:51:48,960 --> 00:51:52,080 Speaker 1: email us everything mom Stuff at how stuff works dot 781 00:51:52,080 --> 00:51:54,680 Speaker 1: com is our email address. You can also tweet us 782 00:51:54,719 --> 00:51:58,600 Speaker 1: at mom Stuff podcast or message us on Facebook and 783 00:51:58,600 --> 00:52:00,560 Speaker 1: we've got a couple of messages to share with you 784 00:52:00,600 --> 00:52:04,040 Speaker 1: when we come right back from a quick break. So, 785 00:52:04,120 --> 00:52:06,200 Speaker 1: Kristen and I have been pretty open on the podcast 786 00:52:06,239 --> 00:52:10,160 Speaker 1: about our struggles with adult acne, and that's why we 787 00:52:10,200 --> 00:52:15,280 Speaker 1: are so excited to get our bio Clarity products. And 788 00:52:15,640 --> 00:52:18,520 Speaker 1: what's most fun is using their restored gills. So it's 789 00:52:18,560 --> 00:52:21,480 Speaker 1: green because it's derived from plants, but it is super 790 00:52:21,760 --> 00:52:25,719 Speaker 1: soothing to our skin. So what is this bio Clarity 791 00:52:25,880 --> 00:52:29,200 Speaker 1: we're talking about well. Bioclarity is a totally new acne 792 00:52:29,200 --> 00:52:34,040 Speaker 1: treatment designed specifically for young adult skin that is naturally better. 793 00:52:34,480 --> 00:52:37,759 Speaker 1: It's clinically proven to clear up acne blemishes and help 794 00:52:37,840 --> 00:52:41,640 Speaker 1: maintain clear confidence skin. They even did a clinical trial 795 00:52:41,680 --> 00:52:44,520 Speaker 1: to prove that before going ahead with their product launch. 796 00:52:45,560 --> 00:52:50,120 Speaker 1: And about that product. Bio Clarity is a three step 797 00:52:50,280 --> 00:52:54,560 Speaker 1: cleansing system that starts with a rich foaming cleanser, a 798 00:52:54,719 --> 00:52:58,600 Speaker 1: step to gel treatment to attack bacteria that caused acne, 799 00:52:58,680 --> 00:53:01,880 Speaker 1: and then step three a restora gel that Caroline and 800 00:53:01,920 --> 00:53:05,200 Speaker 1: I just can't get enough of. Yeah, so step one 801 00:53:05,440 --> 00:53:08,560 Speaker 1: you wash away dirt, oil and pollutants with that cleanser, 802 00:53:08,719 --> 00:53:14,120 Speaker 1: Step to the gel contains antioxidants and attacks bacteria that 803 00:53:14,160 --> 00:53:17,000 Speaker 1: cause acne, and step three that restored gel with flora 804 00:53:17,080 --> 00:53:20,680 Speaker 1: lux helps reduce redness, the size of pores, and soothe 805 00:53:20,800 --> 00:53:23,200 Speaker 1: the skin. So what are you waiting for? Get on 806 00:53:23,280 --> 00:53:26,160 Speaker 1: your way toward clearer skin today by going to bio 807 00:53:26,320 --> 00:53:30,680 Speaker 1: clarity dot com. Stuff mom never told you. Listeners can 808 00:53:30,680 --> 00:53:34,800 Speaker 1: get their first month for only nine that's the twenty 809 00:53:34,840 --> 00:53:38,399 Speaker 1: dollar savings and it comes with a one ent risk 810 00:53:38,560 --> 00:53:41,799 Speaker 1: free money back guarantee. But you need to enter our 811 00:53:41,920 --> 00:53:48,160 Speaker 1: code stuff. That's bio clarity dot com and enter code stuff. 812 00:53:48,719 --> 00:53:52,439 Speaker 1: Don't wait. Go to bioclarity dot com today and now 813 00:53:52,640 --> 00:53:58,360 Speaker 1: back to the show. Well, I have a letter here 814 00:53:58,400 --> 00:54:01,640 Speaker 1: from Marin in response to our library arian two parter. 815 00:54:02,520 --> 00:54:05,359 Speaker 1: Maren says librarians hold a special place in my heart 816 00:54:05,400 --> 00:54:07,920 Speaker 1: as I worked at a library in high school and 817 00:54:08,000 --> 00:54:11,560 Speaker 1: my boss was a kick ass librarian. Incidentally, she was 818 00:54:11,600 --> 00:54:13,920 Speaker 1: an older, unmarried woman, but a far cry from the 819 00:54:13,960 --> 00:54:18,160 Speaker 1: spinster librarian stereotype. I did do some shelving and circulation 820 00:54:18,200 --> 00:54:20,960 Speaker 1: desk work, but mainly I helped plan and run summer 821 00:54:20,960 --> 00:54:24,080 Speaker 1: book clubs for teens along with many other events, put 822 00:54:24,120 --> 00:54:27,440 Speaker 1: together book lists for different subjects, and research titles for 823 00:54:27,520 --> 00:54:32,480 Speaker 1: new acquisition. It was definitely the best job ever. Something 824 00:54:32,520 --> 00:54:34,960 Speaker 1: I didn't know until I started that job, and something 825 00:54:34,960 --> 00:54:37,200 Speaker 1: I was a little surprised y'all didn't mention when talking 826 00:54:37,239 --> 00:54:40,440 Speaker 1: about the librarianship being at the intersection of a service 827 00:54:40,520 --> 00:54:43,520 Speaker 1: job and a profession, is that library science is a 828 00:54:43,560 --> 00:54:46,840 Speaker 1: master's degree. These women and men go through some pretty 829 00:54:46,880 --> 00:54:50,080 Speaker 1: specialized training, but most people are unaware that it requires 830 00:54:50,080 --> 00:54:54,479 Speaker 1: a specific degree. Interestingly, in undergrad I ended up taking 831 00:54:54,480 --> 00:54:58,000 Speaker 1: a children's literature elective through the Library Science grad School 832 00:54:58,000 --> 00:55:00,239 Speaker 1: Department at my college, and it was by SAT on 833 00:55:00,320 --> 00:55:04,120 Speaker 1: child psychology and literacy and geared towards those striving to 834 00:55:04,160 --> 00:55:09,440 Speaker 1: become librarians at elementary schools or children's librarians at public libraries. Currently, 835 00:55:09,520 --> 00:55:12,040 Speaker 1: I'm in medical school and most of our librarians work 836 00:55:12,080 --> 00:55:15,880 Speaker 1: with digital information, helping us navigate science and medical journals 837 00:55:15,880 --> 00:55:19,560 Speaker 1: and evidence based medicine websites and apps. It's remarkable to 838 00:55:19,600 --> 00:55:22,080 Speaker 1: see the breadth of work there is for librarians and 839 00:55:22,120 --> 00:55:24,560 Speaker 1: how they have adapted their knowledge on information to the 840 00:55:24,600 --> 00:55:28,920 Speaker 1: modern age. However, we do have a more traditional librarian 841 00:55:28,960 --> 00:55:31,600 Speaker 1: who runs the physical library on campus and deals with 842 00:55:31,680 --> 00:55:36,839 Speaker 1: the old school books. Hilariously. She is the literal opposite 843 00:55:36,880 --> 00:55:40,160 Speaker 1: of a Madam Pince esque librarian harping its students to 844 00:55:40,160 --> 00:55:45,400 Speaker 1: be quiet. Instead, she always speaks extremely loudly, either on 845 00:55:45,440 --> 00:55:47,520 Speaker 1: the phone or to other people, even though it's a 846 00:55:47,600 --> 00:55:52,200 Speaker 1: silent library usually full of students studying. Insert laugh cry 847 00:55:52,239 --> 00:55:57,000 Speaker 1: emoji here. Please keep doing what you do, and Marin says, 848 00:55:57,040 --> 00:55:59,880 Speaker 1: ps Kristen, I am so excited that you're watching Buffy 849 00:55:59,880 --> 00:56:02,160 Speaker 1: the Vampire Slayer for the first time. I have to 850 00:56:02,200 --> 00:56:05,439 Speaker 1: admit I do have a bit of a crush on Giles. Yeah, 851 00:56:05,440 --> 00:56:09,040 Speaker 1: Giles is handsome. Weren't sure. I have a letter here 852 00:56:09,120 --> 00:56:12,880 Speaker 1: from another librarian, Natasha, who writes, I've often felt the 853 00:56:12,920 --> 00:56:15,319 Speaker 1: field of librarianship gets a bad rap because a lot 854 00:56:15,360 --> 00:56:18,400 Speaker 1: of people don't really understand what we do as a profession. 855 00:56:18,880 --> 00:56:21,840 Speaker 1: I've often received comments from our patrons who are surprised 856 00:56:21,880 --> 00:56:24,160 Speaker 1: that we have to get a master's degree to work 857 00:56:24,200 --> 00:56:26,839 Speaker 1: as librarians. They believe all we do is sit at 858 00:56:26,840 --> 00:56:29,400 Speaker 1: a desk and tell people where the restroom is. The 859 00:56:29,440 --> 00:56:32,000 Speaker 1: worst comments are people who ask us why we're still 860 00:56:32,040 --> 00:56:35,759 Speaker 1: relevant since Google exists, which brings me to why I 861 00:56:35,800 --> 00:56:38,200 Speaker 1: write well. I appreciated the time you spent on the 862 00:56:38,320 --> 00:56:41,280 Speaker 1: history of librarianship. I felt you were a little lacking 863 00:56:41,320 --> 00:56:43,799 Speaker 1: on some of the current trends in libraries and where 864 00:56:43,840 --> 00:56:47,719 Speaker 1: we are as a profession. For instance, librarians are at 865 00:56:47,760 --> 00:56:51,120 Speaker 1: the forefront of fighting for freedom of information, fair use, 866 00:56:51,200 --> 00:56:54,400 Speaker 1: and open access. We're also wrestling with the concept of 867 00:56:54,440 --> 00:56:57,480 Speaker 1: information literacy and how to teach individuals how to navigate 868 00:56:57,520 --> 00:57:01,439 Speaker 1: the web of information without getting lost as researchers. I'm 869 00:57:01,440 --> 00:57:03,600 Speaker 1: sure you're both aware of how difficult it can be 870 00:57:03,640 --> 00:57:07,759 Speaker 1: to ascertain the differences between good and bad sources, librarians 871 00:57:07,760 --> 00:57:10,240 Speaker 1: are working on providing tools to the public to figure 872 00:57:10,239 --> 00:57:13,640 Speaker 1: out the difference between the two. I truly believe libraries 873 00:57:13,680 --> 00:57:17,760 Speaker 1: are one of the last democratic institutions on Earth where 874 00:57:17,800 --> 00:57:20,400 Speaker 1: anyone from any background can learn and grow in a 875 00:57:20,480 --> 00:57:25,080 Speaker 1: non judgmental, open environment. We librarians work very hard to 876 00:57:25,120 --> 00:57:28,000 Speaker 1: continue to keep it that way and improving on many 877 00:57:28,080 --> 00:57:31,320 Speaker 1: diversity issues. I truly appreciated that you both took two 878 00:57:31,360 --> 00:57:34,160 Speaker 1: episodes to provide some insight for those who aren't as 879 00:57:34,200 --> 00:57:39,360 Speaker 1: familiar with libraries. Well, thank you so much for sharing that, Natasha, 880 00:57:39,400 --> 00:57:42,080 Speaker 1: and thanks to everybody who's written into us. Mom stuff 881 00:57:42,120 --> 00:57:45,040 Speaker 1: at how stuff works dot com is our email address 882 00:57:45,320 --> 00:57:47,240 Speaker 1: and for links to all of our social media as 883 00:57:47,240 --> 00:57:49,760 Speaker 1: well as all of our blogs, videos, and podcasts with 884 00:57:49,800 --> 00:57:52,640 Speaker 1: our sources, so you can learn more if you want 885 00:57:52,640 --> 00:57:56,200 Speaker 1: to about Lisa Frank, head on over to stuff Mom 886 00:57:56,280 --> 00:58:03,200 Speaker 1: Never Told You dot com or more on this and 887 00:58:03,280 --> 00:58:13,800 Speaker 1: thousands of other topics. Is it how stuff Works dot com.