1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:09,520 Speaker 1: You're listening to Ruthie's Table four in partnership with Montclair. 2 00:00:09,680 --> 00:00:12,160 Speaker 1: There is a well known cartoon in the New Yorker 3 00:00:12,280 --> 00:00:17,200 Speaker 1: magazine depicting President Franklin Eleanor Roosevelt in his pajamas on 4 00:00:17,360 --> 00:00:20,439 Speaker 1: his knees next to his bed, saying a prayer for 5 00:00:20,560 --> 00:00:24,920 Speaker 1: his wife, the most active first lady in history. Dear Lord, 6 00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:30,360 Speaker 1: please make Eleanor tired tomorrow. I can imagine the friends 7 00:00:30,360 --> 00:00:33,879 Speaker 1: and family of Stephen Frye saying the same prayer. For 8 00:00:33,960 --> 00:00:39,240 Speaker 1: there is very little Stephen doesn't do. Actor, comedian, television host, director, 9 00:00:39,800 --> 00:00:44,680 Speaker 1: prolific writer with four novels, three autobiographies, and countless columns 10 00:00:44,680 --> 00:00:48,040 Speaker 1: in national papers. But should you ask, as I've been doing, 11 00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:51,640 Speaker 1: the people who know him really well, what Stephen is 12 00:00:51,720 --> 00:00:56,000 Speaker 1: best at, they will answer being a friend. As for me, 13 00:00:56,440 --> 00:00:59,720 Speaker 1: I love this man, all he stands for, and quite 14 00:00:59,800 --> 00:01:03,840 Speaker 1: say who he is, and I would change FDR's prayer. 15 00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:08,160 Speaker 1: I would say, Dear Lord, we all need Stephen fry 16 00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:11,120 Speaker 1: Please do not make him tired tomorrow. 17 00:01:12,240 --> 00:01:14,240 Speaker 2: Ruth, I don't know what to say. You're going to 18 00:01:14,280 --> 00:01:16,600 Speaker 2: have to tiptoe out of the room now. I can't 19 00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:18,360 Speaker 2: possibly live up to such an introduction. 20 00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:23,000 Speaker 1: So I'm sitting here in the River Cafe in our 21 00:01:23,080 --> 00:01:28,119 Speaker 1: New Sylvia's dining room. So shall we read the recipe 22 00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:30,520 Speaker 1: for the polenta and almond cake. 23 00:01:31,360 --> 00:01:34,039 Speaker 2: So here is the recipe or receipt, as upper class 24 00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:39,679 Speaker 2: people used to say, we have torta di manoli mandole. 25 00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:42,480 Speaker 2: Of course he's also you know those pictures that the 26 00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:45,240 Speaker 2: Renaissance artists did of a face in a in a 27 00:01:45,280 --> 00:01:47,360 Speaker 2: frame that has a point at the top and a 28 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:49,480 Speaker 2: point at the bottom. I sort of point. They call 29 00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:53,000 Speaker 2: that a mandola because it's the shape of an almond. Yeah, anyway, 30 00:01:53,160 --> 00:02:00,360 Speaker 2: tooni polenta almond and lemon cake. This serves ten or right, 31 00:02:00,480 --> 00:02:03,200 Speaker 2: So have you got your pencils out and you're licking them? 32 00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:06,720 Speaker 2: These first three dry ingredients are grapes, the same quantity 33 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:09,600 Speaker 2: four hundred and fifty grams of unsalted butter. That's not 34 00:02:09,639 --> 00:02:13,400 Speaker 2: a dry ingredient, stephen softened. So remember in the morning, 35 00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:16,440 Speaker 2: first thing, take the butter out of the fridge. Four 36 00:02:16,520 --> 00:02:18,639 Speaker 2: hundred and fifty grams of casta sugar, four hundred and 37 00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:24,680 Speaker 2: fifty grams of ground almonds, six of your finest eggs, 38 00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:29,160 Speaker 2: the zest of four lemons, and the juice of one lemon, 39 00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:33,120 Speaker 2: then two hundred and twenty grams of polent of flour, 40 00:02:33,919 --> 00:02:36,840 Speaker 2: one teaspoonful of baking powder. I never really know the 41 00:02:36,880 --> 00:02:40,200 Speaker 2: difference between baking powder and by carbonate of soda. There 42 00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:42,200 Speaker 2: is a huge difference. I'm being told in my ear 43 00:02:42,280 --> 00:02:48,200 Speaker 2: by my expert. So it's baking powder. Don't substitute with 44 00:02:48,360 --> 00:02:52,120 Speaker 2: anything else, baking soda or anything. So one teaspoonful of 45 00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:56,360 Speaker 2: baking powder, quarter a teaspoonful of salt. You will have 46 00:02:56,400 --> 00:02:58,880 Speaker 2: preheated the oven at this point two one hundred and 47 00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:01,640 Speaker 2: sixty degrees centigrade, I would say one hundred and forty 48 00:03:01,720 --> 00:03:07,000 Speaker 2: or fifty fan. Then butter and flour, a thirty centimeter 49 00:03:07,160 --> 00:03:10,320 Speaker 2: cake tin, which I hope you have lying handily around. 50 00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:13,480 Speaker 2: Beat the butter and sugar together until it becomes pale 51 00:03:13,560 --> 00:03:16,040 Speaker 2: and light, and that really does happen. The butter is 52 00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:19,080 Speaker 2: good British butter, yellow to start with. But it's amazing 53 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:21,200 Speaker 2: how as it beats and beats and the sugar gets 54 00:03:21,240 --> 00:03:24,360 Speaker 2: released into it, it does become notably lighter. And that's 55 00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:27,639 Speaker 2: your signal to add the ground almonds. Then you stir 56 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:30,520 Speaker 2: to combine them, and then you add the eggs one 57 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:34,120 Speaker 2: at a time, and beat the mixture through. Fold in 58 00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:37,640 Speaker 2: the lemon zest, the lemon juice. The smell will rise 59 00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:40,720 Speaker 2: up into your nostrils. Then the polenta, which gives the 60 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:44,040 Speaker 2: cake its major name, of course, the baking powder, and 61 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:47,520 Speaker 2: the salt spoon. The mixture that then is now nice 62 00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:50,200 Speaker 2: and smooth into your prepared tin, and you bake in 63 00:03:50,240 --> 00:03:53,000 Speaker 2: the preheated oven for forty five to fifty minutes or 64 00:03:53,080 --> 00:03:56,360 Speaker 2: until set. I guess the old toothpick taste test will do, 65 00:03:57,440 --> 00:03:59,520 Speaker 2: and the cake will be deep brown on top. That 66 00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:03,560 Speaker 2: that's a cue. It's delicious on its own, as I 67 00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:08,680 Speaker 2: can absolutely testify. With a cappuccino perhaps, or a glass 68 00:04:08,680 --> 00:04:14,280 Speaker 2: of vincanto. And when in season here at this place 69 00:04:14,360 --> 00:04:19,039 Speaker 2: of joy, the River Cafe, it says we caramelize blood oranges. 70 00:04:19,240 --> 00:04:21,960 Speaker 2: Can you imagine what you're doing this morning, Darning, I'm 71 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:27,160 Speaker 2: caramelizing some blood oranges. It reminds me of wonderful Les Dawson, 72 00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:29,839 Speaker 2: the Northern comedian. Well, I can't stop chapping. I've got 73 00:04:29,880 --> 00:04:32,680 Speaker 2: a cape on to baste, I've got sausages to prick 74 00:04:33,040 --> 00:04:35,719 Speaker 2: and so on. Anyway, I've I've got blood oranges to 75 00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:38,560 Speaker 2: caramelize and you serve that with the cake, and you 76 00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:41,760 Speaker 2: just couldn't do better. It's one of the great great recipes. 77 00:04:42,040 --> 00:04:45,560 Speaker 1: I think that if I, even in the last four minutes, 78 00:04:45,640 --> 00:04:48,320 Speaker 1: I have now understood that you are a great cook. 79 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:51,960 Speaker 1: You're a great eater. But you are you know, are 80 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:54,680 Speaker 1: you a passionate cook? Would you describe yourself? Tell me 81 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:55,760 Speaker 1: about cooking? 82 00:04:56,440 --> 00:04:59,080 Speaker 2: I was. I had a strange shout, and which was 83 00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:02,800 Speaker 2: in it sounds if I said, it sounds like it's 84 00:05:03,200 --> 00:05:05,320 Speaker 2: I don't know, Downton Abby or something that it really wasn't. 85 00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:08,799 Speaker 2: But my parents did have a cook, and we had gardeners, 86 00:05:09,839 --> 00:05:13,560 Speaker 2: and we had an old fashioned Victorian kitchen garden, and 87 00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:15,640 Speaker 2: so I was used to the fact that every day 88 00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:18,159 Speaker 2: the gardeners would come to the back door and missus Risebro, 89 00:05:18,279 --> 00:05:21,160 Speaker 2: the cook, would select some of the vegetables or tell 90 00:05:21,160 --> 00:05:22,919 Speaker 2: them to go off and get something else, depending on 91 00:05:22,960 --> 00:05:26,080 Speaker 2: what she was cooking. And I would hang around, age 92 00:05:26,120 --> 00:05:29,200 Speaker 2: five or something watching her. I'd see her do things 93 00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:31,040 Speaker 2: like I mean, she was what used to be called 94 00:05:31,080 --> 00:05:34,080 Speaker 2: a good English plane cook. So she didn't do anything 95 00:05:34,360 --> 00:05:38,039 Speaker 2: terribly fancy, but everything she did was just right. Pies 96 00:05:38,080 --> 00:05:40,640 Speaker 2: and tarts and things like that. She was very good 97 00:05:40,640 --> 00:05:43,880 Speaker 2: at and she would take her thumb and put little 98 00:05:44,279 --> 00:05:47,400 Speaker 2: squares of pastry on it and pull them back to 99 00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:49,320 Speaker 2: make a rose that would go in the center of 100 00:05:49,400 --> 00:05:53,320 Speaker 2: pies and things. So touches. Yeah, and she made pork pies. 101 00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:57,200 Speaker 2: She made, oh yeah, basically anything but you could make 102 00:05:57,680 --> 00:06:00,479 Speaker 2: she made. We had a game larder and a things 103 00:06:00,560 --> 00:06:03,520 Speaker 2: and so we'd have birds hung and things like that. 104 00:06:04,120 --> 00:06:05,480 Speaker 1: Sounds good, missus Er. 105 00:06:05,800 --> 00:06:06,360 Speaker 2: She was one. 106 00:06:06,839 --> 00:06:07,720 Speaker 1: Would they entertain? 107 00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:10,520 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, they were, and they were very social. Yes, 108 00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:13,120 Speaker 2: my mother would do dinner parties and when I was young, 109 00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:16,680 Speaker 2: and up until I was about twelve fourteen, maybe that 110 00:06:16,880 --> 00:06:21,320 Speaker 2: the there would be dinner jackets and black tie and 111 00:06:21,360 --> 00:06:23,599 Speaker 2: the men would be left alone by the women in 112 00:06:23,640 --> 00:06:26,279 Speaker 2: the dining room. So that's you know, that tradition that's 113 00:06:26,320 --> 00:06:27,479 Speaker 2: still going the women. 114 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:30,040 Speaker 1: The men's stayed the women withdrew. 115 00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:33,520 Speaker 2: And I remember my mother saying. My mother read history. 116 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:36,320 Speaker 2: She was was she was a history graduates and she 117 00:06:36,440 --> 00:06:40,119 Speaker 2: taught it occasionally. And I would say to her white, 118 00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:43,680 Speaker 2: the men's stay behind. And I think someone had said 119 00:06:43,720 --> 00:06:45,640 Speaker 2: to me, so they can tell dirty jokes that women 120 00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:47,800 Speaker 2: don't hear. My mother said, no, you know what it 121 00:06:47,880 --> 00:06:52,600 Speaker 2: is really, she said. The Victorians, the women did not 122 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:54,719 Speaker 2: like drawing attention to the fact that they had to 123 00:06:54,839 --> 00:06:58,320 Speaker 2: use lavatries. So if they all went in one go, 124 00:06:58,480 --> 00:07:00,839 Speaker 2: they would go up to the lavoratries, use avatures together 125 00:07:00,880 --> 00:07:03,039 Speaker 2: and then get down into the drawing room and they'd 126 00:07:03,040 --> 00:07:06,240 Speaker 2: be sitting there. But if everybody went into the drawing 127 00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:09,720 Speaker 2: room together after the meal and the women said I'm 128 00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:12,400 Speaker 2: going to go now, everyone go, oh, she's off for 129 00:07:12,400 --> 00:07:16,840 Speaker 2: a piss. And so it was just a discreet way 130 00:07:17,440 --> 00:07:21,320 Speaker 2: of women having that chance to do that without being noticed, 131 00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:21,840 Speaker 2: as it were. 132 00:07:22,120 --> 00:07:25,520 Speaker 1: And so you have your memories are of home and 133 00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:29,120 Speaker 1: good food and a care for food. 134 00:07:29,160 --> 00:07:32,320 Speaker 2: Because my mother had food. I went say issues, but 135 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:35,280 Speaker 2: she would drive the gardener's mad because she'd go out 136 00:07:35,720 --> 00:07:37,760 Speaker 2: when the peas were ready and she would just eat 137 00:07:37,880 --> 00:07:40,880 Speaker 2: the entire crop of peas out of the pod. Yeah. 138 00:07:41,240 --> 00:07:44,840 Speaker 1: I remember one sitting on a railway train and we're 139 00:07:44,880 --> 00:07:47,760 Speaker 1: going from one small town in Italy to another, and 140 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:50,880 Speaker 1: we'd go into the market and bought some peas, and 141 00:07:50,920 --> 00:07:53,160 Speaker 1: we had children with us, and we were all eating 142 00:07:53,280 --> 00:07:56,640 Speaker 1: the raw peas on the train carriage. Italians went mad. 143 00:07:57,000 --> 00:08:00,880 Speaker 1: I mean, the idea of eating a raw piece. Those 144 00:08:00,960 --> 00:08:02,720 Speaker 1: people were sitting at it, and we could have taken 145 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:05,880 Speaker 1: off all our clothes and had more respect than giving 146 00:08:05,880 --> 00:08:08,920 Speaker 1: our children raw pies out of it. But what's more delicious? 147 00:08:09,200 --> 00:08:11,920 Speaker 1: Raw pie? And we make a salad? Do you ever have? 148 00:08:12,440 --> 00:08:14,280 Speaker 1: You know, you can make a salad with delicious. 149 00:08:14,680 --> 00:08:19,000 Speaker 2: But the other thing is that it was natural because 150 00:08:19,600 --> 00:08:23,320 Speaker 2: of the kitchen garden was everything was in season, so 151 00:08:23,760 --> 00:08:26,240 Speaker 2: you know, and there were fruit trees, you know, trained 152 00:08:26,240 --> 00:08:28,800 Speaker 2: against the outbuildings, plum trees and things like that. And 153 00:08:28,840 --> 00:08:32,520 Speaker 2: there were goosberry bushes and raspberry and black currants, and 154 00:08:34,280 --> 00:08:41,080 Speaker 2: four fantastic asparagus beds raised asparagus beds Belgian asparagus, quite 155 00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:45,000 Speaker 2: small and delicate asparagus. And my mother had constant war 156 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:47,800 Speaker 2: with the gardeners because well, she had this theory and 157 00:08:48,440 --> 00:08:56,480 Speaker 2: that you shouldn't eat asparagus after ascot mid June something 158 00:08:56,520 --> 00:08:59,000 Speaker 2: like that. I don't know anyway, she'd heard that somewhere 159 00:08:59,080 --> 00:09:02,240 Speaker 2: or been told that, and she of course was desperate 160 00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:05,880 Speaker 2: to get hold of Once the asperance was getting all 161 00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:08,400 Speaker 2: the ferns would come up, and she loved it for 162 00:09:08,440 --> 00:09:09,240 Speaker 2: flower rangings. 163 00:09:09,720 --> 00:09:10,640 Speaker 1: She sounds amazing. 164 00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:17,240 Speaker 2: She is sounds like she's still here, she's ninety two. 165 00:09:17,920 --> 00:09:21,840 Speaker 1: Because that I do think that inner knowledge and passion 166 00:09:21,880 --> 00:09:25,720 Speaker 1: for the garden, for the ferns, for the seasonality of saying. 167 00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:29,440 Speaker 1: And there is a very short season for good asparagus saska. 168 00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:32,440 Speaker 1: It is there isn't you know? In Paris one minute 169 00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:34,760 Speaker 1: you'd go down to the market and you know, there 170 00:09:34,760 --> 00:09:37,880 Speaker 1: were white asparagus and green asparagus and thin aspects, and 171 00:09:37,920 --> 00:09:39,880 Speaker 1: then they were gone, and we're just gone. And I 172 00:09:39,880 --> 00:09:42,400 Speaker 1: think it's here as well. And they do come from Norfolk. 173 00:09:42,160 --> 00:09:44,600 Speaker 2: Yes they do. But the criminal thing now, I think 174 00:09:44,640 --> 00:09:47,600 Speaker 2: in some ways is people don't understand that you can 175 00:09:47,760 --> 00:09:52,880 Speaker 2: store fresh fruit and vegetables. We had outhouses and there 176 00:09:52,880 --> 00:09:57,400 Speaker 2: would be newspaper and potatoes, and when we lifted all 177 00:09:57,400 --> 00:09:59,600 Speaker 2: the potatoes and there there'd be and they'd last all 178 00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:02,320 Speaker 2: the way through as long as it was dark and cool, 179 00:10:02,559 --> 00:10:05,040 Speaker 2: which naturally would be being an outhouse. And the same 180 00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:07,360 Speaker 2: with apples and pears. They lost forever. 181 00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:12,240 Speaker 1: Your parents were interested in food come from their cultural. 182 00:10:12,280 --> 00:10:14,679 Speaker 2: My mother, yes, my father lesson. My father just did 183 00:10:14,720 --> 00:10:16,240 Speaker 2: everything that was put in front of him, and his 184 00:10:16,400 --> 00:10:20,040 Speaker 2: mind was on his work. He was a scientist. But 185 00:10:20,080 --> 00:10:23,400 Speaker 2: my mother was from a Jewish family, and Jews always 186 00:10:23,960 --> 00:10:26,440 Speaker 2: compared to the British in those days less so now 187 00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:30,760 Speaker 2: were obsessed with food, partly because in some cases they 188 00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:33,720 Speaker 2: knew poverty between the walls when things were really short 189 00:10:33,760 --> 00:10:37,160 Speaker 2: in Vienna and in Hungary, where my grandparents came from. 190 00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:40,200 Speaker 2: My grandfather was a good cook, and I remember, yeah, 191 00:10:40,240 --> 00:10:44,400 Speaker 2: he made the most beautiful sort of dill and cucumber 192 00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:46,600 Speaker 2: salads and things, and I really got a taste for 193 00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:50,440 Speaker 2: that kind of Central European flavor from him, things like 194 00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:53,760 Speaker 2: cucumbers and so on, which are very Central European polition, 195 00:10:54,400 --> 00:10:58,400 Speaker 2: hungering and other such things. And spicy, spicy, but not 196 00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:02,080 Speaker 2: in not like Indian or Mexican food spicy, but in 197 00:11:02,520 --> 00:11:06,240 Speaker 2: that sort of paprika spiciness, which I'm very fond of. 198 00:11:06,760 --> 00:11:11,000 Speaker 1: My grandparents were Hungarian. One side were Russian Jews who 199 00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:14,440 Speaker 1: left Russia, and the other were Hungarian Jews that left Hungary. 200 00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:16,920 Speaker 1: They came to the United States as part of the 201 00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:24,080 Speaker 1: Ellis Island in Flux in nineteen probably fifteen, right really early. 202 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:27,640 Speaker 1: They got it early. So growing up in this household, 203 00:11:27,800 --> 00:11:32,079 Speaker 1: going to you then went away to school at age seven, 204 00:11:32,400 --> 00:11:34,520 Speaker 1: and was that a food shark as well as a 205 00:11:34,559 --> 00:11:35,280 Speaker 1: home shop. 206 00:11:35,559 --> 00:11:40,200 Speaker 2: It was. We grew up in Norfolk and obviously my 207 00:11:40,280 --> 00:11:43,360 Speaker 2: mother wouldn't force me to eat anything I hated. And 208 00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:45,800 Speaker 2: they arrived at this prep school age seven, which is 209 00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:48,520 Speaker 2: in Gloucestershire, two hundred miles right year was this, This 210 00:11:48,559 --> 00:11:53,920 Speaker 2: is in nineteen sixty four, and there are things like 211 00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:58,600 Speaker 2: semolina and tapioca hot milk puddings. Something about milk that's 212 00:11:58,640 --> 00:12:02,320 Speaker 2: been boiled makes me actually kick, makes me a dry heave. 213 00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:05,320 Speaker 2: And I saw these and I said, no, no, I can't, 214 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:08,360 Speaker 2: I can't. And they forced it, literally holding my nose 215 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:10,640 Speaker 2: like like a hunger strike thing. It was cruel in 216 00:12:10,679 --> 00:12:12,280 Speaker 2: those days, but of course you know it happened to 217 00:12:12,320 --> 00:12:15,000 Speaker 2: other boys, so you just think this is this is life. 218 00:12:15,640 --> 00:12:17,920 Speaker 2: But I really and I forced myself to throw up 219 00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:21,400 Speaker 2: at the table so that they stopped doing it. And 220 00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:24,240 Speaker 2: and it forced yourself. And it was written down Stephen 221 00:12:24,559 --> 00:12:27,800 Speaker 2: Fry or Fry s probably or Fry Junior because my 222 00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:32,360 Speaker 2: brother was there, allergic to hot milk. 223 00:12:33,080 --> 00:12:36,800 Speaker 1: Clever to figure out what to do. 224 00:12:36,960 --> 00:12:38,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, but it was I mean, it was all I 225 00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:40,920 Speaker 2: would say to Kensian. But it was a world of 226 00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:45,000 Speaker 2: chill blains and constipation and cold, you know. I mean 227 00:12:45,040 --> 00:12:47,200 Speaker 2: the way they heated a dormitory was just to have 228 00:12:47,240 --> 00:12:49,560 Speaker 2: a hot pipe running along the bottom, you know, no 229 00:12:49,679 --> 00:12:56,880 Speaker 2: radiators or anything. And so it wasn't ju desperately, I mean, yes, 230 00:12:57,000 --> 00:12:59,079 Speaker 2: very much. So what it does I've spoken about this before, 231 00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:04,280 Speaker 2: and what it does is you start to obsess about sweets. 232 00:13:04,559 --> 00:13:06,280 Speaker 2: There's a touch shop in the school. We are called 233 00:13:06,280 --> 00:13:10,120 Speaker 2: the touch shop. Tuck is the school slang for goodies 234 00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:13,360 Speaker 2: for confectionery. And you start to get really obsessed with 235 00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:14,840 Speaker 2: when the touch shop can to be opened and how 236 00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:17,400 Speaker 2: much pocket money you've got to buy these things. And 237 00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:20,640 Speaker 2: this was the golden age of confectionery. Cabri was producing 238 00:13:20,679 --> 00:13:23,959 Speaker 2: new things like curly whirleyon and Aztec bars, and there 239 00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:27,920 Speaker 2: were these amazing you know, foam shrimps and flying sauces 240 00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:31,200 Speaker 2: made of rice paper and fruit salads four for a 241 00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:34,120 Speaker 2: penny and black jacks four for a penny. And I 242 00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:38,240 Speaker 2: became so obsessed that I would start breaking out of 243 00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:41,160 Speaker 2: school bunds and going to the village shop. And it 244 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:45,400 Speaker 2: was in Gloucestershire, a little village called Yuli, and I 245 00:13:45,400 --> 00:13:48,920 Speaker 2: would spend whatever money I had on getting those sweets, 246 00:13:49,160 --> 00:13:52,640 Speaker 2: and it became a kind of obsession that my teeth 247 00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:55,319 Speaker 2: suffered by. You know, by the time I was twelve, 248 00:13:55,400 --> 00:13:57,800 Speaker 2: I was having huge amounts of fillings and even having 249 00:13:57,840 --> 00:14:01,760 Speaker 2: teeth out. But also interesting and this is you know, 250 00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:05,280 Speaker 2: I'm not using an excuse, but a lot of it 251 00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:09,560 Speaker 2: was preparation for smoking. There were these coconut shredded brown 252 00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:14,200 Speaker 2: fake tobaccos in a little wax paper with a Spanish 253 00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:17,040 Speaker 2: galleon on it, which was like rolling tobacco. There were 254 00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:21,800 Speaker 2: these candy cigarettes that you would have licorice, Yes, that's it. 255 00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:26,040 Speaker 2: They were, and in sort of fake Chesterfield packs softly 256 00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:31,920 Speaker 2: looked exactly like Chesterfield or something, or camel and licorice pipes, 257 00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:36,800 Speaker 2: and so they were getting you ready, well like pipe 258 00:14:36,840 --> 00:14:40,000 Speaker 2: smoker's pipe made out of a licorice. Yeah, and even 259 00:14:40,120 --> 00:14:45,320 Speaker 2: more sort of weirdly, the glamour of the white powder Sherbert, 260 00:14:45,640 --> 00:14:47,960 Speaker 2: so you'd suck it up through a licorice straw and 261 00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:50,680 Speaker 2: a Sherbert fountain. So it was preparing you for a 262 00:14:50,760 --> 00:14:53,760 Speaker 2: life to come. Yeah. So you then go from the 263 00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:55,720 Speaker 2: you know, when you were fourteen or fifteen, you go 264 00:14:55,760 --> 00:14:58,880 Speaker 2: for the real cigarettes and smoking, and then when you're 265 00:14:58,880 --> 00:15:00,520 Speaker 2: a little bit older than that, the real white power. 266 00:15:00,640 --> 00:15:03,280 Speaker 2: It's a terrible thought. I'm not excusing it or saying 267 00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:06,320 Speaker 2: that it was the school's fault that I, in later 268 00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:08,080 Speaker 2: life did become something of an addict. 269 00:15:08,280 --> 00:15:10,520 Speaker 1: I was even not to interrupt your story, but I 270 00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:13,680 Speaker 1: was going to say that culturally, if your parents were 271 00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:19,320 Speaker 1: Hungarian Jews background of that, did going to boarding school 272 00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:20,520 Speaker 1: come easier to them? 273 00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:23,400 Speaker 2: So my parents are both bought it all their time 274 00:15:23,440 --> 00:15:25,480 Speaker 2: as children, so there was no Yeah, there was nothing. 275 00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:28,120 Speaker 2: And you have to remember, if you're thinking how coral 276 00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:29,680 Speaker 2: to send a child away at the age of seven, 277 00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:34,640 Speaker 2: if that seven year old child has other friends as 278 00:15:34,680 --> 00:15:37,520 Speaker 2: I did in the Norfolk countryside, they were all boys 279 00:15:37,720 --> 00:15:39,880 Speaker 2: who were also going to go to school. And then 280 00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:41,880 Speaker 2: when you get to the prep school, obviously everyone's in 281 00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:43,880 Speaker 2: the same boat. So you just think this is what 282 00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:46,440 Speaker 2: life is like. You don't think this is so unfair. 283 00:15:46,840 --> 00:15:49,400 Speaker 2: There are people who are not going to boarding schools. 284 00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:51,440 Speaker 2: You just think you might. 285 00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:53,680 Speaker 1: Not, well, this is another discussion. You might not think it, 286 00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:55,480 Speaker 1: the child might not think it, but the parents might 287 00:15:55,520 --> 00:15:56,040 Speaker 1: think yes. 288 00:15:56,080 --> 00:15:58,560 Speaker 2: And I was aware that because because we would go 289 00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:02,520 Speaker 2: my mother and I from Norwich by train and breakfast 290 00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:03,000 Speaker 2: on the train. 291 00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:03,320 Speaker 1: You know. 292 00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:07,880 Speaker 2: It was so good because they had these silver they 293 00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:12,920 Speaker 2: did silver service. They had stewards in short white little tops, tunics, whatever, 294 00:16:13,720 --> 00:16:16,600 Speaker 2: and they would you know, the silver service in the 295 00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:18,240 Speaker 2: sense they would use a spoon and a fork in 296 00:16:18,280 --> 00:16:21,480 Speaker 2: the same hand, and they could definitely put the bacon 297 00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:24,280 Speaker 2: on a train, egg on a train exactly. And we 298 00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:27,320 Speaker 2: got to know them. Then they would recognize us and say, oh, 299 00:16:27,480 --> 00:16:29,400 Speaker 2: school again, young man, is it and all that, you know, 300 00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:31,960 Speaker 2: we would get the train and then we'd spend a 301 00:16:32,040 --> 00:16:35,160 Speaker 2: day in London. Sometimes we'd have lunch with my grandfather 302 00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:39,160 Speaker 2: at the walled Doff or the hotel. Yeah, that's sort 303 00:16:39,160 --> 00:16:42,400 Speaker 2: of Verre. He liked the yeah, the big. 304 00:16:42,920 --> 00:16:44,840 Speaker 1: Yeah there you go in there. That's what you got 305 00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:48,920 Speaker 1: their dances. 306 00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:54,400 Speaker 2: So that's a nice hotel. And and then go to 307 00:16:54,440 --> 00:16:57,200 Speaker 2: Paddington and that's where my heart wouldtart to sink and 308 00:16:57,240 --> 00:16:59,480 Speaker 2: flutter a bit because you'd see at the end of 309 00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:01,920 Speaker 2: the platform on boys in these straw hats that we 310 00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:06,560 Speaker 2: call boaters, and that was the school compartment. But then 311 00:17:06,600 --> 00:17:09,080 Speaker 2: you'd notice, or I'd noticed that my mother was crying. 312 00:17:09,560 --> 00:17:12,800 Speaker 2: She was trying not to so touchy it's making me 313 00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:15,760 Speaker 2: move now because you know, everyone thinking how cruel of parents, 314 00:17:15,840 --> 00:17:18,040 Speaker 2: but they don't want to lose their child, but they 315 00:17:18,119 --> 00:17:20,040 Speaker 2: just feel that's the right thing for them. 316 00:17:20,280 --> 00:17:22,600 Speaker 1: You stayed in school till. 317 00:17:22,359 --> 00:17:24,960 Speaker 2: Oh ah, well, now we don't have enough time to 318 00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:29,880 Speaker 2: cover the chapters of disaster, do we. I went from 319 00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:33,680 Speaker 2: prep school. Prep school in England is age seven, which 320 00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:36,720 Speaker 2: is the youngest, and two thirteen, and then you would 321 00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:38,960 Speaker 2: take what was called a common entrance exam, which was 322 00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:43,239 Speaker 2: for public schools. I private schools, and so I went 323 00:17:43,280 --> 00:17:47,000 Speaker 2: to private school called Oppingham and my behavior was dreadful. 324 00:17:47,040 --> 00:17:48,600 Speaker 2: And then worst of all, I fell in love with 325 00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:51,199 Speaker 2: a boy. And I was so confused by this, so 326 00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:55,720 Speaker 2: absolutely astonished by the power of the emotion, the sheer 327 00:17:56,240 --> 00:17:59,520 Speaker 2: power that you could be obsessed for twenty four hours 328 00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:02,639 Speaker 2: a day and of nothing else and change your walking habits. 329 00:18:02,680 --> 00:18:05,720 Speaker 2: So you would bump into this person and knowing just 330 00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:09,520 Speaker 2: phenomenal obsession, not really sexual even I was, you know, 331 00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:15,800 Speaker 2: just something overwhelming. Was it reciprocated eventually there was a 332 00:18:16,040 --> 00:18:23,560 Speaker 2: nice moment, but yeah, yeah, it threw me completely and 333 00:18:23,880 --> 00:18:29,040 Speaker 2: certainly threw my concentration away. But the actual casus bellies 334 00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:31,600 Speaker 2: I think well, and should say the cause of the war, 335 00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:38,120 Speaker 2: the originating disaster was. I was a member, the youngest 336 00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:42,119 Speaker 2: member of the Sherlock Holmes Society of London, and I 337 00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:45,680 Speaker 2: got permissioned from my housemaster to go to a meeting 338 00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:50,639 Speaker 2: of the Society in London in some grand club, and 339 00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:53,480 Speaker 2: I read a paper, I delivered a paper, and the 340 00:18:53,560 --> 00:18:56,399 Speaker 2: idea was that the next I was staying overnight at 341 00:18:56,440 --> 00:18:58,760 Speaker 2: the club and the next morning I would take a 342 00:18:58,760 --> 00:19:04,240 Speaker 2: train back to school. Well, the next morning I went 343 00:19:04,280 --> 00:19:06,520 Speaker 2: to a cinema and in those days, cinemas would sort 344 00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:08,560 Speaker 2: of start a program at ten in the morning or something, 345 00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:10,840 Speaker 2: and then just you could stay in the same cinema 346 00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:13,240 Speaker 2: and what the same film again and again. And the 347 00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:15,520 Speaker 2: film was Cabaret, and I was completely obsessed with it. 348 00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:18,040 Speaker 2: I just never seen anything like it. It was fantastic. 349 00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:21,679 Speaker 2: And then chose it, yeah, I mean almost randomly, not 350 00:19:21,720 --> 00:19:23,680 Speaker 2: knowing what it was or anything about it, not naying 351 00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:26,920 Speaker 2: you know about Christi Riischerwood or Eliza Beanelly or any 352 00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:28,919 Speaker 2: of the sort of background to it. And then I 353 00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:30,800 Speaker 2: wandered in the days to another cinema and there was 354 00:19:30,840 --> 00:19:33,719 Speaker 2: a clock work orange was on and unfortunately I was 355 00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:36,200 Speaker 2: although I was fourteen and a half, I could pass 356 00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:40,480 Speaker 2: as X, which was eighteen, I guess, and because being tall, 357 00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:43,919 Speaker 2: I suppose. And so there were there were three or 358 00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:47,760 Speaker 2: four films, I think The Godfather as well, and Fritz 359 00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:50,800 Speaker 2: the Cat, which was a sort of pornographic cartoon. Mem 360 00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:55,320 Speaker 2: do you remember so four days past? 361 00:19:55,840 --> 00:19:56,640 Speaker 1: You stayed four days? 362 00:19:56,680 --> 00:19:56,880 Speaker 3: Yes? 363 00:19:57,200 --> 00:19:58,479 Speaker 1: And was anybody out searching? 364 00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:00,960 Speaker 2: Yes? And there were terrified and they didn't know what 365 00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:02,960 Speaker 2: had happened to me, and they'd run away. What's going on? 366 00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:05,960 Speaker 2: And then I kind of came to in a sort 367 00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:08,760 Speaker 2: of days and went back to the school. There was 368 00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:11,240 Speaker 2: a lot of folded arms and tapping of feet on 369 00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:12,840 Speaker 2: the carpet. 370 00:20:12,359 --> 00:20:14,280 Speaker 1: And will anybody call the police? 371 00:20:14,680 --> 00:20:17,000 Speaker 2: Well they had done, Yes, they reported me as missing 372 00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:20,200 Speaker 2: after three days. I think whatever it was, so, yeah, 373 00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:22,280 Speaker 2: it was just a disaster. And I remember getting in 374 00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:26,520 Speaker 2: the car with my parents because I was expelled from 375 00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:30,000 Speaker 2: the school, and my father saying the words, we will 376 00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:33,199 Speaker 2: talk about this sorry incident when we get home. Sorry, 377 00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:36,959 Speaker 2: sorry incident. It was a sorry incident. 378 00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:45,320 Speaker 1: Did you know? The River Cafe has a shop. It's 379 00:20:45,359 --> 00:20:48,760 Speaker 1: full of our favorite foods and designs. We have cookbooks 380 00:20:48,760 --> 00:20:52,560 Speaker 1: and linen Napkins kitchen ware, toad bags with our signatures, 381 00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:56,239 Speaker 1: glasses from Venice, chocolates from Turin. You can find us 382 00:20:56,320 --> 00:20:59,040 Speaker 1: right next door to the River Cafe in London or 383 00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:02,920 Speaker 1: online at shop the River Cafe dot co dot uk. 384 00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:14,040 Speaker 1: When you went to Cambridge, what was the food like there? 385 00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:16,360 Speaker 1: Then you were away from both the boarding school and 386 00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:19,320 Speaker 1: you were away from your parents. Could you create your 387 00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:20,480 Speaker 1: own food world more? 388 00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:24,800 Speaker 2: Yes, there were some students got friendly with who really 389 00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:25,720 Speaker 2: understood food. 390 00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:29,080 Speaker 1: Did you cook for yourself at Cambridge? Or was that hard? 391 00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:30,919 Speaker 2: If you were in college, you had your rooms and 392 00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:32,600 Speaker 2: you had what was called a jip room, which was 393 00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:34,560 Speaker 2: like a little kitchen, but it didn't really have a 394 00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:38,040 Speaker 2: proper oven or anything, so you couldn't do much there. 395 00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:42,920 Speaker 2: But because of the acting, I would, in particular after 396 00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:46,560 Speaker 2: the May term, which is like the summer term at Cambridge, 397 00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:49,920 Speaker 2: when it was over, I would stay on to rehearse 398 00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:53,920 Speaker 2: with friends all the plays we were taking up to Edinburgh. 399 00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:56,320 Speaker 2: And then one might stay at totally different places, and 400 00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:58,960 Speaker 2: I stayed with it rather than in your college, because 401 00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:00,840 Speaker 2: your college would be given ever to conferences and things 402 00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:02,800 Speaker 2: like that, and they wouldn't let you stay there. So 403 00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:05,600 Speaker 2: I remember staying with friends, and one of these friends, Ben, 404 00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:08,560 Speaker 2: who was really good. He taught me the mill pois 405 00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:11,600 Speaker 2: that the preparation for almost anything, you know, the carrots, 406 00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:16,119 Speaker 2: the celery and chopping them up, and. 407 00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:19,119 Speaker 1: Called the Italian cooking Sofrito. 408 00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:22,800 Speaker 2: Exactly exactly, and he's the basis of everything from Bologniers upwards, 409 00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:25,800 Speaker 2: as it were. And so I really enjoyed learning that 410 00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:28,399 Speaker 2: and seeing how all that worked. And he showed me 411 00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:32,199 Speaker 2: as well what I now know is called deglazing. You 412 00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:34,879 Speaker 2: know how you had I say, everything's stuck, and he goes, no, 413 00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:37,640 Speaker 2: just just take a glass of wine and just throw 414 00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:39,480 Speaker 2: it on, and I'm getting what are you doing? And 415 00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:42,159 Speaker 2: then it would all just come into life, and you know, 416 00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:43,160 Speaker 2: he had that confidence. 417 00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:45,480 Speaker 1: So was he really the first person to do he. 418 00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:48,159 Speaker 2: Kind of was. Yeah. He taught me not to be 419 00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:51,679 Speaker 2: afraid and not to have to follow every syllable on 420 00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:55,439 Speaker 2: a page, because once you knew the principle of certain 421 00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:58,000 Speaker 2: kinds of cooking, you could just then do very Oh 422 00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:00,199 Speaker 2: we haven't got any that with his fish instead, but 423 00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:02,639 Speaker 2: it says it's for Lamb's just that's all right, you know, 424 00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:04,080 Speaker 2: and you just sort of take that. 425 00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:06,919 Speaker 1: I was saying cooking is a bit like poetry. You know, 426 00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:09,760 Speaker 1: you have to know the real poetry to go to 427 00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:10,359 Speaker 1: free verse. 428 00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:13,639 Speaker 2: Yes, exactly, once you know the fourteen line Sonnet, you 429 00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:17,239 Speaker 2: can then exactly escape the prison of the form. But 430 00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:20,320 Speaker 2: it was really when I left Cambridge I was so 431 00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:23,600 Speaker 2: fortunate because you know, our comedy stuff I was doing 432 00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:29,480 Speaker 2: with Hugh Lori and Emma Thompson. One prize comedy, what 433 00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:32,919 Speaker 2: it was, Camebridge this club called the Footlights, which is 434 00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:36,439 Speaker 2: well over one hundred years old and it sort of 435 00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:40,480 Speaker 2: specializes in comedy. I say it is whoever the undergraduates 436 00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:43,159 Speaker 2: are at the time who happened to be members of 437 00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:46,680 Speaker 2: the club. But it famously had Peter Cook and John 438 00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:51,280 Speaker 2: Clees and Eric Idle and Grifflies Jones and Douglas Adams 439 00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:55,320 Speaker 2: and Clive James and all kind of Baron Margerleyes, Yes, 440 00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:58,439 Speaker 2: Stephen and then Stephen Frown, Hugh Luri and Emma Thompson. 441 00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:01,439 Speaker 2: We were all one bunch and we went to Edinburgh 442 00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:04,119 Speaker 2: and we won this new prize called the Perrier Award 443 00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:08,120 Speaker 2: for Comedy, and this involved going to Australia. Well sort 444 00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:10,679 Speaker 2: of it didn't. The prize didn't, but because we won. 445 00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:14,360 Speaker 2: It's an Australian entrepreneur called Michael Edgeley saw our show 446 00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:16,720 Speaker 2: and then said, you guys want to come out to Australia. 447 00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:19,879 Speaker 2: And that's where I learned to eat because it was 448 00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:25,520 Speaker 2: an absolute revelation. This is nineteen eighty one, starting in Sydney. 449 00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:28,800 Speaker 2: Doyle's of course, the amazing seafood place. You walk along 450 00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:31,439 Speaker 2: the dunes and come to this beautiful shack where the 451 00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:34,760 Speaker 2: food is well, things you've never heard of, like Barry 452 00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:39,840 Speaker 2: Mundy and Morton Bay bugs and all these extraordinary seafood things. 453 00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:43,840 Speaker 2: But also oysters. I mean, oyster is so plentiful and 454 00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:46,159 Speaker 2: not oh my goodness, I'm having oysters. I must be 455 00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:49,240 Speaker 2: in Bentley's or in you know some posh you know 456 00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:52,720 Speaker 2: London restaurant that does oysters. But it was, yeah, I 457 00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:56,399 Speaker 2: have some oysters, mane I mind Rockefeller or Killpatrick, you 458 00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:59,480 Speaker 2: know these different ways of preparing them, kill Patrick Acrosse 459 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:04,560 Speaker 2: the mind because it involved was the source. Yes, So 460 00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:07,960 Speaker 2: I became really obsessed with oysters and would have and 461 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:11,240 Speaker 2: they were cheap sometimes you could that's the point. I 462 00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:14,679 Speaker 2: have some plump, half a dozen plump specific oysters not cooked, 463 00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:18,960 Speaker 2: and then half a dozen cooked more neat Rockefeller and 464 00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:22,680 Speaker 2: Kilpatrick with the one with bacon to kill Patrick. Yeah. 465 00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:26,720 Speaker 2: And and there were cheapest, cheapest chips, as people say so. 466 00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:29,439 Speaker 2: And wine was the other thing I finally moved off 467 00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:30,040 Speaker 2: the lampres. 468 00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:32,359 Speaker 1: We haven't talked about, yeah, because they. 469 00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:36,320 Speaker 2: Had things like Grange Hermitage, which at the time was 470 00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:38,680 Speaker 2: good but nothing like as expensive as it is now. 471 00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:40,920 Speaker 2: Three or four hundred pound a bottle at least, isn't it. 472 00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:46,360 Speaker 2: But they you know this, They had this way of 473 00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:51,960 Speaker 2: categorizing wines which is so ridiculously obvious but was unheard 474 00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:58,399 Speaker 2: of by grape Vatal. So they would say this is 475 00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:01,840 Speaker 2: a Sheers, you know, and and this is you know, 476 00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:05,800 Speaker 2: Kevin I Servignon, and this is a Semion or whatever, 477 00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:10,479 Speaker 2: and they'd tell you about the grape and you go, oh, 478 00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:12,920 Speaker 2: I see. Then you get back to England and every 479 00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:15,560 Speaker 2: restaurant just a shadowed nerve to this shadow that and 480 00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:18,680 Speaker 2: you get what does that mean? But when I got 481 00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:23,240 Speaker 2: back to England, we were like for two months and 482 00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:25,399 Speaker 2: traveling everywhere all the big cities, in some of the 483 00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:31,360 Speaker 2: crazy little towns like Albury, Wodonga, eating fabulous food, cheaply 484 00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:34,520 Speaker 2: and happily and the whole day really was around the 485 00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:37,080 Speaker 2: fact we'd finished the show and what restaurant we're going 486 00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:40,600 Speaker 2: to And but when I got back to England, I 487 00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:42,920 Speaker 2: was wandering around. So we were doing a TV show 488 00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:46,800 Speaker 2: and I was feeling lucky and flushed with cash relatively 489 00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:50,720 Speaker 2: compared to being a student, but not very rich. And 490 00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:52,440 Speaker 2: I was wondering, to say, when I was getting lost, 491 00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:54,840 Speaker 2: as you do, and before you understand that, what's the 492 00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:56,960 Speaker 2: cross street? And you know? And so I was going 493 00:26:56,960 --> 00:26:59,760 Speaker 2: down this street called Greek Street and I saw on 494 00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:03,560 Speaker 2: attractive looking restaurant and the restaurant was called Let's Gargo 495 00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:07,840 Speaker 2: the Snail, and I wandered in and this fabulous woman 496 00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:10,640 Speaker 2: about three foot tall came up to me and said hello, dear, 497 00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:13,800 Speaker 2: and I said, oh, it was obviously very nervous. She 498 00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:15,400 Speaker 2: said you come with me, and she sat me down. 499 00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:20,480 Speaker 2: You'll know who I'm talking about, Ellen Salvatina, this amazing woman, phenomenal, 500 00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:22,840 Speaker 2: and she sat me down and I said, I'm not 501 00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:26,440 Speaker 2: and she chose for me, somehow brilliantly, things that were 502 00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:28,760 Speaker 2: just cheap enough for me to be able to afford. 503 00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:31,760 Speaker 2: And so from then on, the richer I got the 504 00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:34,439 Speaker 2: luckier I got I would go there, and this was 505 00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:37,760 Speaker 2: in the high days of Let's Cargo. We know Princess Diana, 506 00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:40,159 Speaker 2: we'd go and all these people. But most importantly again 507 00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:49,600 Speaker 2: it was Chancey's Robinson's husband Lander, his name was Nick Lander, 508 00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:53,560 Speaker 2: who ran Let's Go Go and Jancey's Robinson's great Wine 509 00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:56,040 Speaker 2: created great the first woman to be made of Master 510 00:27:56,119 --> 00:28:01,320 Speaker 2: of Wine, fabulous person and she made the wine list varietal. 511 00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:04,000 Speaker 2: So it was the first, I think probably in London 512 00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:06,720 Speaker 2: to be like that where it was, and gosh, I 513 00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:11,720 Speaker 2: had some marvelous times there, absolutely amazingly recognized someone. We 514 00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:14,399 Speaker 2: became very good friends. She then moved to Lettual in 515 00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:17,600 Speaker 2: Charlotte Street, and her husband Aldo was a fat fascinating 516 00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:21,879 Speaker 2: man as well, because they lived in Noel Road in 517 00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:25,680 Speaker 2: Islington in the nineteen sixties year and their neighbor their 518 00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:30,080 Speaker 2: neighbors were a gay couple called Kenneth Halliwell and Joe Orton, 519 00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:33,960 Speaker 2: and it was Aldo who there was a they'd heard 520 00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:36,960 Speaker 2: some shouting and then the next day they were worried 521 00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:40,280 Speaker 2: and and and Eleanor had said, how's what's what's up 522 00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:43,560 Speaker 2: with Joe and Aldo? And she looked through the keyhole 523 00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:47,840 Speaker 2: and saw him dead, and Alder had to break down 524 00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:49,760 Speaker 2: the door, and of course Kenneth Halliwell had killed his 525 00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:54,160 Speaker 2: lover and then himself, so she never forgot that. But 526 00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:57,560 Speaker 2: I remember once, for example, I was having dinner there 527 00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:02,000 Speaker 2: with Ron Atkins and my friend Rowan, the wonderful Great. Yeah, 528 00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:06,800 Speaker 2: let's go and go upstairs. And Rowan is the most 529 00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:09,160 Speaker 2: wonderful person in the world. But he's not a late 530 00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:11,920 Speaker 2: night figure at all in those days, I quite was. 531 00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:13,840 Speaker 2: So we'd had dinner and it was like halp us 532 00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:17,440 Speaker 2: nine and said, right, well, I'm I'll get a cab 533 00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:20,280 Speaker 2: and go home. And I thought, oh, well, I'll do 534 00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:22,400 Speaker 2: the same. So I ordered a cab. His cab came first, 535 00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:24,360 Speaker 2: and I was just about to leave it, and I said, 536 00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:30,160 Speaker 2: could you go and cheer up John Hurt. He's just 537 00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:32,720 Speaker 2: left his wife and he's was all very unhappy and 538 00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:36,240 Speaker 2: he needs a bit of cheering up. So I sat 539 00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:40,160 Speaker 2: down and there was John had, you know, sit down, 540 00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:44,720 Speaker 2: and every now and again Ee said, your CAB's still here. 541 00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:47,120 Speaker 2: I said, oh, tell him, I'll be five minutes. Yeah, 542 00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:50,760 Speaker 2: it's five minutes. We were getting home, and the cab 543 00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:56,040 Speaker 2: bill was two hundred and twenty pounds and I saw 544 00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:59,000 Speaker 2: John about a week later and said, I have told 545 00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:02,880 Speaker 2: everyone I got hurt on Thursday night, and he said, well, 546 00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:08,200 Speaker 2: I told everyone I got fried. I got to know 547 00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:10,960 Speaker 2: him even better later because he moved to Norfolk. 548 00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:14,400 Speaker 1: Was Europe at all an influence? Did you travel to 549 00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:17,680 Speaker 1: France or Italy or did you do Greece? Was there 550 00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:19,800 Speaker 1: any food experience from being in Europe? 551 00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:23,520 Speaker 2: Just as I was really beginning to love food, I 552 00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:26,560 Speaker 2: went with Rowan, whom I mentioned ron Atkinson had bought 553 00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:29,360 Speaker 2: a new Western Martin and he said, I really think 554 00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:33,040 Speaker 2: we should try this out. And so we booked ourselves 555 00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:37,200 Speaker 2: an amazing holiday, going all the way down France through 556 00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:42,520 Speaker 2: basically through as many three star, three Michelin star restaurants, 557 00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:46,600 Speaker 2: so mioneise in outside Leon and Chappelle's restaurant thing, and 558 00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:51,200 Speaker 2: then down to the Moujen restaurants outside Cannes, you know 559 00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:53,160 Speaker 2: in the column door, which is not through star, but 560 00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:55,640 Speaker 2: it's one of the greatest restaurants in the world. 561 00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:57,200 Speaker 1: Oh that menu. 562 00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:01,880 Speaker 2: People who don't know it's up from up from cann 563 00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:05,080 Speaker 2: in the hills and it's this beautiful, beautiful place. It's 564 00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:08,640 Speaker 2: like your ideal image of a promo soul house with 565 00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:10,720 Speaker 2: the tiles and everything else. But it has added to 566 00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:14,360 Speaker 2: it these extraordinary pieces on the walls by Matisse and 567 00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:21,080 Speaker 2: others and mirror and yeah, that's right, these extraordinary paintings 568 00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:25,600 Speaker 2: because the original patron and his wife would allow the 569 00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:29,440 Speaker 2: artists to give pictures instead of paying the bills. And 570 00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:31,480 Speaker 2: it has since become, you know, one of the great 571 00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:34,560 Speaker 2: restaurants of the world. Really it's it's atmosphere and for 572 00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:38,960 Speaker 2: all its fame and uh, you know, they're not necessarily 573 00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:41,320 Speaker 2: easy to get a table, especially during the Canned Film 574 00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:44,600 Speaker 2: Festival or something. It is the friendliest, warmest place. It's really, 575 00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:46,960 Speaker 2: you know, like all these good places there, you might 576 00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:49,920 Speaker 2: think they're going to be frightened the river. Under the river, 577 00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:53,080 Speaker 2: you won't find people looking snooterly at you at all. 578 00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:57,000 Speaker 2: It's the opposite of good restaurant to have snootiness, isn't it. 579 00:31:57,560 --> 00:32:01,880 Speaker 1: When I boat you couple of months ago, you were 580 00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:03,920 Speaker 1: talking about your schedule and a lot of it was 581 00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:07,680 Speaker 1: around being in London or being in Los Angeles. And 582 00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:11,360 Speaker 1: I think that California is so interesting in terms of 583 00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:16,240 Speaker 1: going back to Alice Walters and food farm to table 584 00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:21,680 Speaker 1: and restaurants like Wolfgang Pugs, Mamaison becoming Spago where he 585 00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:25,600 Speaker 1: made pizzas, and now the very kind of healthy eating 586 00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:28,200 Speaker 1: of California. And I think if we're talking about a 587 00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:31,400 Speaker 1: kind of food culture, would you say that in Los 588 00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:35,000 Speaker 1: Angeles you're finding a certain type of food culture unquestionably. 589 00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:38,600 Speaker 2: And one of the interesting things is people picture Los 590 00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:41,480 Speaker 2: Angeles and they think of smart movie people. And obviously 591 00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:43,600 Speaker 2: there are a lot of movie people, but the food 592 00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:48,200 Speaker 2: culture is driven from below, and the smart movie people 593 00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:51,560 Speaker 2: follow it. And over the last ten years, the major 594 00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:56,040 Speaker 2: thing has been street food food trucks, which a lot 595 00:32:56,040 --> 00:32:58,080 Speaker 2: of British people. When you would say to them, oh, 596 00:32:58,080 --> 00:32:59,720 Speaker 2: look there's a fish taco truck. Let's going to have 597 00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:04,440 Speaker 2: that lunch, I'll go crazy. Is it hygieniic? You know? 598 00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:06,320 Speaker 2: I mean, there's sort of weird British idea that a 599 00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:09,560 Speaker 2: food truck couldn't live up to a restaurant. And very 600 00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:12,520 Speaker 2: often the que is the indication. You'll see a big 601 00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:14,600 Speaker 2: line and you'll know that's a good one and you 602 00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:16,840 Speaker 2: make a note in your head next time I'm driving 603 00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:19,280 Speaker 2: down here, I'll go and try try what they've got 604 00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:22,360 Speaker 2: and they and there's that side of things. Of course, 605 00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:28,160 Speaker 2: there's the glamorous side of places. The movie people go. Yeah, 606 00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:31,440 Speaker 2: the Polo Lounge and it's like Craigs. Now you'll always 607 00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:35,640 Speaker 2: see a Kardashian in there if you want to. And again, 608 00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:39,920 Speaker 2: you know, because they're the paparazzi outside and what in 609 00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:44,800 Speaker 2: America they call videographers who are called TMZ the this 610 00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:50,120 Speaker 2: kind of news channel, gossip news channel. But the quality 611 00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:54,320 Speaker 2: of food is good for you know, good for vegans 612 00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:56,720 Speaker 2: and vegetarians, and so it's a good place to say, oh, 613 00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:59,000 Speaker 2: I'll go, I'll go vegan for a week, you know, 614 00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:02,440 Speaker 2: just just out of fun really, because there's so many options. 615 00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:04,000 Speaker 1: Do you only eat out? 616 00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:07,400 Speaker 2: No, not at all. No, I'd love to cook really 617 00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:10,919 Speaker 2: good kitchen in the house in La So I really 618 00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:13,520 Speaker 2: enjoyed it. Well, it's open. It's this long, long run 619 00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:16,640 Speaker 2: because the house used to be an art gallery when 620 00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:21,359 Speaker 2: it was built in nineteen twenty three. It's I give 621 00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:24,759 Speaker 2: too much of a detail, but it's the under the 622 00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:28,759 Speaker 2: Hollywood side Beechwood Canyon, and there's an art It was 623 00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:31,080 Speaker 2: an art gallery. So there's this very long room in 624 00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:32,759 Speaker 2: this upper upper room which used to be where the 625 00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:35,759 Speaker 2: pictures were. One end of it is the kitchen and 626 00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:37,920 Speaker 2: it's open to the you know, the dining room part 627 00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:39,879 Speaker 2: of it and the other parts of it, so you're 628 00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:42,000 Speaker 2: kind of when you're cooking, you're cooking, you're chatting to 629 00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:44,680 Speaker 2: everybody who might be there, and there's plenty of room. 630 00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:49,520 Speaker 2: It's really there's good surfaces, you know how somehow surfaces 631 00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:51,480 Speaker 2: disappear when you cook put it. 632 00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:55,560 Speaker 1: Did you cook there more than you would cook it? Yes? 633 00:34:55,640 --> 00:34:58,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I do, yeah, and I love it. And 634 00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:01,640 Speaker 2: my husband's are good, you know, a good customer. He 635 00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:03,320 Speaker 2: seems to enjoy it. 636 00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:11,080 Speaker 1: If you like listening to Ruthie's Table for would you 637 00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:15,160 Speaker 1: please make sure to rape and review the podcast on 638 00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:20,239 Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get 639 00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:22,239 Speaker 1: your podcasts. Thank you. 640 00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:33,920 Speaker 3: Hi. I'm Sean and I'm making Lemon almond and Palenticate. 641 00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:34,080 Speaker 1: With Stephen Fry. 642 00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:40,360 Speaker 2: I am a convicted lemon Plenticate user and I was 643 00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:42,640 Speaker 2: on the road to recovery, but now that's all been 644 00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:46,239 Speaker 2: set back. I'm afraid, so shall I make this? You 645 00:35:46,239 --> 00:35:47,480 Speaker 2: tell me what I need to do and. 646 00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:50,520 Speaker 3: Think we doo apart from we've got that better here. 647 00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:53,880 Speaker 2: So that's just someften on its own took. 648 00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:56,040 Speaker 3: The liberty of giving it a bit before you arrived, 649 00:35:56,040 --> 00:35:58,080 Speaker 3: because I thought, we don't need to watch that. But 650 00:35:58,239 --> 00:36:02,080 Speaker 3: as it goes from the yellow color to the pale color, 651 00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:05,120 Speaker 3: it's to your point of knowing that it's been beaten. 652 00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:07,640 Speaker 3: And then you've got your four hundred and fifty grams 653 00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:12,279 Speaker 3: of cups of sugar, and then this is going to 654 00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:15,120 Speaker 3: get beaten until the sugar dissolves. 655 00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:17,880 Speaker 2: Right and again, I mean, it's one of the loveliest 656 00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:19,600 Speaker 2: tastes in the world, and there's a child butter and 657 00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:21,640 Speaker 2: sugar to get that's just covered enough. 658 00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:26,640 Speaker 3: Exactly be in the noise of it. 659 00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:28,920 Speaker 2: We can talk about to yourself. 660 00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:33,160 Speaker 3: It's a very high tech Okay, then you know some 661 00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:35,359 Speaker 3: people will put a bit of egg and a bit 662 00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:40,000 Speaker 3: of flowering alternately, but I'm just gonna brazen it out 663 00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:40,680 Speaker 3: quite frankly. 664 00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:43,279 Speaker 2: I think it all ends up in the same in 665 00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:47,200 Speaker 2: the end. Yeah, lovely, lovely, I. 666 00:36:47,160 --> 00:36:54,000 Speaker 3: Mean, just and then this is the plent of flower 667 00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:55,360 Speaker 3: and the ground almonds. 668 00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:56,719 Speaker 1: So I'll just get that in. 669 00:36:57,120 --> 00:36:59,960 Speaker 3: Let it get around the slowly, so don't get covered. 670 00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:06,120 Speaker 2: You made this one quite recently. It's still warm, yeah. 671 00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:07,960 Speaker 3: So that that's actually can have gone the menu for lunch. 672 00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:12,600 Speaker 3: Now do you want to have a piece of that? 673 00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:13,520 Speaker 2: Why not? 674 00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:14,680 Speaker 3: Do you want to cut yourself? 675 00:37:14,719 --> 00:37:20,120 Speaker 2: sEH, so soft? So I'm gonna have to say the 676 00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:22,760 Speaker 2: word moist, no escaping? 677 00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:25,440 Speaker 3: Is we just do you want to find you before? 678 00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:28,879 Speaker 2: I'm quite happy to just frankly drop my head into 679 00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:33,760 Speaker 2: it and go like that. But probably that's. 680 00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:34,920 Speaker 3: Got cup of tea written all over it. 681 00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:35,440 Speaker 2: Espresso. 682 00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:37,279 Speaker 3: It's got espresso written all over, isn't it. 683 00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:40,400 Speaker 2: Hmm, Oh my goodness. 684 00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:43,560 Speaker 3: You can have that while you talk to Ruthy. 685 00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:50,279 Speaker 2: That is so good, honestly brilliant. 686 00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:50,640 Speaker 3: Thanks. 687 00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:58,279 Speaker 1: You've just made a palantic cake with Sean. Tell me 688 00:37:58,320 --> 00:37:59,000 Speaker 1: what that was like. 689 00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:02,080 Speaker 2: It was a tremendous experience. It's so simple on the 690 00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:06,080 Speaker 2: one hand, but like all great dishes, it can be 691 00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:09,960 Speaker 2: made better by people who are confident. It's my theory 692 00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:14,400 Speaker 2: about food is that certain ingredients know when you're scared. 693 00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:16,360 Speaker 1: You know when you're scared. 694 00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:20,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, I love making mayonnaise, but it's a mood thing. 695 00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:25,040 Speaker 2: Some If you're not quite confident enough, it knows, and 696 00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:27,480 Speaker 2: it will split. If you're too confident, it will split. 697 00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:30,359 Speaker 2: You have to just sort of come up to it 698 00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:33,160 Speaker 2: and show that you are master, but that you respect it. 699 00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:35,320 Speaker 2: And I think that's true of a lot of ingredients. 700 00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:39,840 Speaker 2: And polenticate no less so to get that gritty moisture 701 00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:43,560 Speaker 2: and that sweetness and that's citrus, all in the right proportion, 702 00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:46,399 Speaker 2: it's a simply joyous thing to eat. 703 00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:50,439 Speaker 1: I was going to also ask you about work and 704 00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:55,239 Speaker 1: creating and food. So when you are writing, when you're directing, 705 00:38:55,360 --> 00:39:00,040 Speaker 1: when you're doing your beautiful voice audio. 706 00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:02,920 Speaker 2: Books, I can't. I find it very hard to eat anything, 707 00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:06,160 Speaker 2: eat anything before a performance of any kind. That that's 708 00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:08,600 Speaker 2: as if your nerves sort of shrink you up and 709 00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:12,880 Speaker 2: you and your metabolism is fast, which tends to reduce appetite. 710 00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:17,240 Speaker 2: Anything that makes your metabolism go quick reduces appetite, doesn't it, 711 00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:24,520 Speaker 2: Like again, for example speed, But those drugs are are 712 00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:27,440 Speaker 2: appetite suppressants as opposed to the slowly down ones that 713 00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:30,080 Speaker 2: can you know that famously cannabis gives you the munchies, 714 00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:34,320 Speaker 2: you know, and so on. So aside from external forces 715 00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:38,279 Speaker 2: and chemistry, the actual act of being nervous before a show, 716 00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:40,799 Speaker 2: I find has that thing that I just couldn't eat. 717 00:39:41,239 --> 00:39:45,960 Speaker 2: But afterwards, yes, and that's everyone tells you you shouldn't eat, 718 00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:50,520 Speaker 2: you know, two hours before bed or whatever, because you know, I. 719 00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:51,800 Speaker 1: Don't know if they say that anymore. 720 00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:53,239 Speaker 2: Maybe they do, maybe they don't. 721 00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:55,840 Speaker 1: We always look for that study that you want to 722 00:39:55,880 --> 00:39:58,720 Speaker 1: read which says that actually you gain no more weight. 723 00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:00,800 Speaker 1: Am I eating before you go to bed than you 724 00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:02,400 Speaker 1: would if you had it at six o'clock? 725 00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:05,640 Speaker 2: Well, that's because I am a bit obsessed about my weight. 726 00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:09,920 Speaker 2: I mean, I know I'd be fitter. I would snow 727 00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:13,759 Speaker 2: less and and and puff less at the top of 728 00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:16,480 Speaker 2: the steps if I if I lost her. 729 00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:18,880 Speaker 1: We don't want any less. 730 00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:24,000 Speaker 2: I tried that zempic. I'm the earlier docter of these things, 731 00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:26,160 Speaker 2: and I happened to be in America and I'd read 732 00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:29,080 Speaker 2: about it, and I asked them, my doctor in America 733 00:40:29,080 --> 00:40:32,080 Speaker 2: and my physician as they like to call them, and 734 00:40:32,239 --> 00:40:35,000 Speaker 2: he said, I can get you some, and he tried 735 00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:37,720 Speaker 2: me on it. And first week or so, I was thinking, 736 00:40:37,719 --> 00:40:40,520 Speaker 2: this is astonishing. Not only do I know want to eat, 737 00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:42,239 Speaker 2: I don't even want to I don't want alcohol of 738 00:40:42,239 --> 00:40:44,839 Speaker 2: any kind. This is going to be brilliant. And then 739 00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:47,080 Speaker 2: I started feeling sick. And then I started feeling sicker 740 00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:49,680 Speaker 2: and sicker, and sucker, and I was literally throwing up 741 00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:52,040 Speaker 2: four or five times a day, and I thought, I 742 00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:55,200 Speaker 2: can't do this. So that's that's it. And the new 743 00:40:55,600 --> 00:40:59,600 Speaker 2: variant to zeppeedeie manduras it's called it makes it even 744 00:40:59,640 --> 00:41:03,040 Speaker 2: worse parent if you have those side effects. So as 745 00:41:03,160 --> 00:41:03,879 Speaker 2: he's probably good. 746 00:41:04,120 --> 00:41:09,800 Speaker 1: I think you look great, you are you are eating 747 00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:11,320 Speaker 1: and so food and work. 748 00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:16,680 Speaker 2: Yes, I mean I do. I love. I love to 749 00:41:16,760 --> 00:41:21,040 Speaker 2: work on an empty stomach as well when if it's right, yeah, 750 00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:26,279 Speaker 2: and then writing mode at the moment. Well, it's the 751 00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:28,799 Speaker 2: fourth in a series of books I've done on Greek mythology, 752 00:41:29,640 --> 00:41:32,279 Speaker 2: and it's the final one. The first was the kind 753 00:41:32,320 --> 00:41:36,520 Speaker 2: of birth of the gods and the creation of humankind 754 00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:41,799 Speaker 2: and the kind of gods and the humans interacting and interbreeding. 755 00:41:42,160 --> 00:41:44,480 Speaker 2: And the second one is called Heroes and is like 756 00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:49,239 Speaker 2: Hercules and Perseus and Theseus and Jason and Atlanta and 757 00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:53,439 Speaker 2: these you know, the heroic race. And then the third 758 00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:56,279 Speaker 2: one was the Trojan War with Achilles and Helen and 759 00:41:56,320 --> 00:41:59,120 Speaker 2: all that. And this fourth one is the all Coming Home. 760 00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:02,880 Speaker 2: Agamemnon has to come home to be murdered, and Helen 761 00:42:02,960 --> 00:42:06,440 Speaker 2: and menelais her husband, have to go home. I picture 762 00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:08,640 Speaker 2: that voyage home as had a lot of folded arms, 763 00:42:08,640 --> 00:42:11,160 Speaker 2: and it didn't try very hard to escape from Troy, 764 00:42:11,239 --> 00:42:14,919 Speaker 2: did you, darling. And then of course the Odyssey, which 765 00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:16,080 Speaker 2: is the main story of it. 766 00:42:16,200 --> 00:42:19,160 Speaker 1: Do you think the gods eight eight they did and 767 00:42:19,160 --> 00:42:20,000 Speaker 1: what did they drink? 768 00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:23,640 Speaker 2: The gods drank nectar nectar nectar nectar, which is not 769 00:42:23,719 --> 00:42:28,040 Speaker 2: quite the juice of you know, the hollyhock or the flower, 770 00:42:28,120 --> 00:42:32,359 Speaker 2: but a sort of honey and alcohol kind of thing 771 00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:36,239 Speaker 2: that was good for gods. And they ate ambrosia. It 772 00:42:36,320 --> 00:42:40,719 Speaker 2: was called ambrosia. No one's quite sure what ambrosia was, 773 00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:43,560 Speaker 2: but it was. It was the food of the gods 774 00:42:43,640 --> 00:42:46,759 Speaker 2: rather than the drink of the gods. And this is 775 00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:50,439 Speaker 2: what an ambrosia kept their blood in a silvery form. 776 00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:53,120 Speaker 2: The gods had silvery blood rather than red or blue 777 00:42:53,200 --> 00:42:58,880 Speaker 2: or green, and it was called kor. And if humans 778 00:42:59,480 --> 00:43:03,319 Speaker 2: had or if they tasted kora, it was on them 779 00:43:03,320 --> 00:43:04,479 Speaker 2: it would kill them straight away. 780 00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:05,360 Speaker 1: So it was. 781 00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:11,399 Speaker 2: For the gods. Yeah, but it's a nice that one 782 00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:14,440 Speaker 2: of one of the best words in the English language 783 00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:19,560 Speaker 2: language is petrich or petrik or pet Petross is rock 784 00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:24,920 Speaker 2: in Greek, as in petrol and petrify and all those things. 785 00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:30,200 Speaker 2: Petroleum and kore is that blood, that strange silvery liquid. 786 00:43:30,239 --> 00:43:35,200 Speaker 2: And petricore is the word for that smell that rises 787 00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:38,720 Speaker 2: up from the earth after rain, which is not lovely. 788 00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:41,200 Speaker 2: That there's a word for it, and that's what it is, 789 00:43:41,560 --> 00:43:46,040 Speaker 2: this kind of holy, holy, sacred smell rising. 790 00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:49,200 Speaker 1: Up from the earth, and that note of smell and 791 00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:51,640 Speaker 1: comfort we were talking. I think I suppose we were 792 00:43:51,640 --> 00:43:55,239 Speaker 1: talking a lot about comfort that you derived from your 793 00:43:55,280 --> 00:43:59,160 Speaker 1: life in going to school and needing comfort in sweets 794 00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:03,400 Speaker 1: or going up later, and the memories of seeking comfort 795 00:44:04,040 --> 00:44:07,319 Speaker 1: as well. Before we go to lunch. What would be 796 00:44:07,520 --> 00:44:09,800 Speaker 1: a food that you would go for comfort. 797 00:44:10,440 --> 00:44:15,799 Speaker 2: It's a small silvery fish in a tin, not a sardine, 798 00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:19,520 Speaker 2: although I like sardines. It's called skipper. You see them 799 00:44:19,560 --> 00:44:24,040 Speaker 2: in supermarkets. At first you go, oh, there's obviously skip jack, 800 00:44:24,120 --> 00:44:27,400 Speaker 2: do you know, which is a different but but skippers 801 00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:29,520 Speaker 2: are little I don't know if there's another name for them, 802 00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:32,440 Speaker 2: but they are kind of bonelets who you have them whole, 803 00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:36,560 Speaker 2: and they're sort of soften, spread on toast and on toast. 804 00:44:36,760 --> 00:44:39,719 Speaker 2: They are absolutely. 805 00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:40,800 Speaker 1: Comfort. 806 00:44:41,120 --> 00:44:43,000 Speaker 2: I think I think my mother used to get them, 807 00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:44,520 Speaker 2: and that's probably what it is. I mean, it's a 808 00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:45,760 Speaker 2: terrible admission, isn't. 809 00:44:45,560 --> 00:44:50,040 Speaker 1: It a terrible admssion answer this question will say something 810 00:44:50,080 --> 00:44:54,759 Speaker 1: from their memory of sharing their mother, their father, their grandmother, 811 00:44:55,360 --> 00:44:59,959 Speaker 1: the culture they came from. Thank you, what a great question. Pleasure, Thanks, 812 00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:07,239 Speaker 1: thank you, thank you for listening to Ruthie's Table four 813 00:45:07,680 --> 00:45:09,280 Speaker 1: in partnership with Montclair. 814 00:45:18,040 --> 00:45:21,720 Speaker 2: Ruthie's Table four is produced by Atamei Studios for iHeartRadio. 815 00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:25,480 Speaker 2: It's hosted by Ruthie Rogers, and it's produced by William Lensky. 816 00:45:26,239 --> 00:45:29,359 Speaker 2: This episode was edited by Julia Johnson and mixed by 817 00:45:29,440 --> 00:45:30,280 Speaker 2: Nigel Appleton. 818 00:45:30,960 --> 00:45:34,520 Speaker 3: Our executive producers are Fay Stewart and Zad Rogers. 819 00:45:35,080 --> 00:45:38,520 Speaker 2: Our production manager is Caitlin Paramore, and our production coordinator 820 00:45:38,600 --> 00:45:42,760 Speaker 2: is Bella Cellini. This episode had additional contributions by Sean 821 00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:46,000 Speaker 2: Wynn Owen. Thank you to everyone at The River Cafe 822 00:45:46,320 --> 00:45:51,400 Speaker 2: for your help in making this episode.