WEBVTT - Bloomberg Businessweek Weekend - August 3rd, 2019 0:00:02.520 --> 0:00:06.560 This is Bloomberg Business Week from Bloomberg Radio. Hi, I'm 0:00:06.640 --> 0:00:09.480 Jason Kelly and I'm Taylor Riggs. Welcome to the Bloomberg 0:00:09.520 --> 0:00:12.520 Business Week Weekend Podcast. In this episode, we're going to 0:00:12.560 --> 0:00:15.200 bring you news of the week, insights from the magazine, 0:00:15.280 --> 0:00:18.079 and more, and this week a host of stories all 0:00:18.079 --> 0:00:21.000 over the world, all over the map. Victoria's secret, they 0:00:21.040 --> 0:00:24.360 have more than a Jeffrey Epstein problem, Taylor. We also 0:00:24.400 --> 0:00:29.720 take you to Minneapolis. They're taking aim at single family homes. 0:00:30.760 --> 0:00:33.559 Will be the hunger Games of the entertainment industry. That 0:00:33.680 --> 0:00:36.800 is a pun intended. It is this week's cover story. 0:00:36.920 --> 0:00:40.720 First up, though, Jason, So, raising venture capital money is 0:00:40.920 --> 0:00:44.839 complicated on all sides of the equation for both the 0:00:44.880 --> 0:00:49.760 funders and the funds, and the level of difficulty only 0:00:50.080 --> 0:00:54.040 gets more difficult if you are a woman, and that 0:00:54.200 --> 0:00:57.760 is still the case in Silicon Valley, even at the 0:00:57.800 --> 0:01:02.280 best known shop. Sarah McBride back with me from San Francisco, 0:01:02.400 --> 0:01:06.800 taking us inside the experience of one partner at Sequoia Capital. 0:01:06.840 --> 0:01:09.959 That's Just Lee. Sarah, great to have you with us 0:01:10.160 --> 0:01:14.520 and tell us about Jess So. Just Lee is the 0:01:14.600 --> 0:01:18.800 first US investing partner at Sequoia Capital, who's a woman. 0:01:19.319 --> 0:01:22.440 So the firm was founded in nineteen seventy two, and 0:01:22.520 --> 0:01:26.240 for decades there were no women partners here in the US, 0:01:26.480 --> 0:01:29.679 And then a couple of years ago the firm hired 0:01:30.040 --> 0:01:34.240 just Lee, who is a former product manager at Google 0:01:34.560 --> 0:01:38.640 and CEO of a startup called polly Vore. And it 0:01:38.760 --> 0:01:42.399 was a big deal and everybody was looking to see 0:01:42.400 --> 0:01:46.200 how she did, especially since Sequoia had been in the 0:01:46.200 --> 0:01:49.040 news a couple of times over some of the things 0:01:49.040 --> 0:01:53.800 that partners had done that people thought weren't that female friendly. 0:01:53.960 --> 0:01:57.040 So there was a lot riding on her shoulders, right, 0:01:57.120 --> 0:02:01.080 and specifically, Mike Mooret's on this network said, and I'm 0:02:01.200 --> 0:02:04.400 quoting here, what we're not prepared to do is lower 0:02:04.440 --> 0:02:08.480 our standards when asked about bringing in women partners. That's 0:02:08.480 --> 0:02:11.280 a tough beat, to say the least. And yet Just 0:02:11.520 --> 0:02:16.040 Lee perseveres, she takes the partnership, what has her experience 0:02:16.120 --> 0:02:19.880 been like with more it than others? Right to be fair, 0:02:19.919 --> 0:02:22.240 a lot of people thought that she was brought in 0:02:22.280 --> 0:02:25.560 as a direct result of those comments. Segoya had actually 0:02:25.600 --> 0:02:29.640 been trying to recruit her before that point, but the 0:02:29.720 --> 0:02:35.280 timing was just unfortunate. So um, she told me this 0:02:35.520 --> 0:02:40.600 crazy experience she had right after she joined Sequoia Capital. Normally, 0:02:40.919 --> 0:02:44.040 partners from a big prestigious firm like that have to 0:02:44.080 --> 0:02:46.600 be kind of careful when they go out into the world. 0:02:46.680 --> 0:02:50.560 They get mobbed. Every entrepreneur wants to pitch them their 0:02:50.639 --> 0:02:55.680 startup idea. And she described for my colleague Lizette Chapman 0:02:55.720 --> 0:02:59.880 and me going down to a conference at Upfront Ventures 0:03:00.040 --> 0:03:03.160 in l A. So there were lots of entrepreneurs, lots 0:03:03.160 --> 0:03:06.920 of other vcs people who normally would have given their 0:03:06.960 --> 0:03:09.600 eye teeth to talk to a partner at Sequoia Capital, 0:03:10.160 --> 0:03:13.200 and she says that, you know, she was a new partner, 0:03:13.280 --> 0:03:15.679 so people didn't know who she was. But she described 0:03:15.760 --> 0:03:20.359 walking around the room and people just looked at her, 0:03:20.880 --> 0:03:24.760 saw a young face, an Asian woman, and didn't even 0:03:24.800 --> 0:03:28.120 look down at her name tag to see who she was, 0:03:28.360 --> 0:03:31.359 just assumed she was in marketing or just not an 0:03:31.360 --> 0:03:34.520 important person that they didn't even need to look at 0:03:34.520 --> 0:03:37.640 her name tag. That wouldn't happen now because she's a 0:03:37.680 --> 0:03:42.480 more recognizable figure now. But I think that just was 0:03:42.520 --> 0:03:46.560 a devastating anecdote that shows the subconscious mindset that a 0:03:46.600 --> 0:03:49.440 lot of people in technology have well, And one of 0:03:49.440 --> 0:03:52.480 the really important things about your story that I appreciated 0:03:52.600 --> 0:03:57.800 was this notion of the complexity of women dealing with 0:03:57.880 --> 0:04:01.120 other women in the VC and tech world. Talk a 0:04:01.200 --> 0:04:04.880 little bit about that, because it's not this straight ahead 0:04:04.960 --> 0:04:09.000 like women helping other women, sisters doing it for themselves 0:04:09.080 --> 0:04:12.760 kind of thing. It's very different, right, So I do 0:04:12.880 --> 0:04:16.600 think that now there's an attitude where most women do 0:04:16.720 --> 0:04:19.640 want to help other women, but it hasn't always been 0:04:19.680 --> 0:04:21.600 like that. And even a lot of the women who 0:04:21.640 --> 0:04:27.360 think they want to help other women sometimes subconsciously realize 0:04:27.400 --> 0:04:29.560 they're sort of an outsider and don't want to be 0:04:29.680 --> 0:04:32.400 lumped in with the other outsiders. This is something I've 0:04:32.440 --> 0:04:35.960 written about over the years. There was an academic study 0:04:36.000 --> 0:04:38.440 that came out a couple of years ago that showed 0:04:39.040 --> 0:04:43.480 when women were evaluating startup pitches and men were evaluating 0:04:43.520 --> 0:04:46.719 startup pitches, the women were a lot harder on the 0:04:46.720 --> 0:04:49.599 pitches that came from other women, whereas the men were 0:04:49.680 --> 0:04:54.479 actually more likely to be supportive of those pitches. Young 0:04:54.839 --> 0:04:58.279 women founders have told me that they dread going to 0:04:58.400 --> 0:05:02.160 pitch women, but because women are harder on them and 0:05:02.240 --> 0:05:06.920 ask tougher questions. Now, I think a lot of people 0:05:07.080 --> 0:05:11.200 have done some thinking about how women are treated and 0:05:11.279 --> 0:05:15.120 how women can help each other, and there's less likelihood 0:05:15.520 --> 0:05:18.839 of that happening. There's a group here in Silicon Valley 0:05:18.839 --> 0:05:22.400 that just Lee is deeply involved with, called All Rays, 0:05:22.520 --> 0:05:26.919 where there's a conscious effort to help women founders and 0:05:26.960 --> 0:05:31.440 women entrepreneurs. So I think because people have really examined 0:05:31.480 --> 0:05:35.440 their own behavior, hopefully that happens less. But that's an 0:05:35.680 --> 0:05:39.719 unfortunate tendency. And so did you leave this story and 0:05:39.800 --> 0:05:44.400 leave your conversations with just more optimistic about the future 0:05:44.600 --> 0:05:47.559 of women in Silicon Valley, especially on the investors side, 0:05:47.720 --> 0:05:50.400 You know, I did. I think there's a tendency to 0:05:51.320 --> 0:05:55.080 tell each other great, the sisterhood, everybody helping each other, 0:05:55.120 --> 0:05:58.400 and it's a lot more complicated than that. But overall 0:05:58.440 --> 0:06:00.960 I did leave a lot more up to mystic well, 0:06:01.000 --> 0:06:03.120 and as you point out importantly in this story, it 0:06:03.160 --> 0:06:05.599 feels like we are at least getting to this moment 0:06:06.200 --> 0:06:09.760 where it's not enough to say, okay, we have a 0:06:09.800 --> 0:06:14.000 woman who is a partner, that most firms are taking 0:06:14.080 --> 0:06:17.800 a little bit more of a holistic approach here that's right, 0:06:17.960 --> 0:06:22.039 they are. They want to have at least two women. 0:06:22.080 --> 0:06:25.520 There are plenty of studies that show that once you 0:06:25.560 --> 0:06:32.760 get to the benefits multiply much more. There are efforts 0:06:32.839 --> 0:06:35.400 to just do more than pay lip service and not 0:06:35.560 --> 0:06:38.240 just promote the woman, but make sure she's comfortable in 0:06:38.279 --> 0:06:41.440 the position. And that's Sarah McBride a really smart story 0:06:41.480 --> 0:06:45.320 taking you inside the world of venture capital, the gender relations, 0:06:45.360 --> 0:06:48.120 the gender and balance. It's complicated, well safe to say. 0:06:48.240 --> 0:06:51.919 One of the most important and certainly controversial sports figures 0:06:52.040 --> 0:06:54.680 of the last twenty years, maybe the last century if 0:06:54.720 --> 0:06:57.600 we really stop and think about it, is Lance Armstrong. 0:06:57.720 --> 0:07:01.280 Well he's back in a way. Mat x Chafkin caught 0:07:01.360 --> 0:07:05.520 up with him, he joins me from San Francisco. So, Max, 0:07:05.600 --> 0:07:08.960 you spent some time with the man himself. Take us 0:07:09.160 --> 0:07:12.840 to Lance armstrong state of mind here in twenty nineteen. Yeah, So, 0:07:12.880 --> 0:07:15.360 like you said, Lance Armstrong, you know, one of the 0:07:15.360 --> 0:07:19.000 most controversial athletes, you know, pre controversy arguably, you know, 0:07:19.040 --> 0:07:21.880 one of the greatest athletes, won the Tour de France 0:07:21.960 --> 0:07:26.440 a record seven times UM and you know in the 0:07:26.520 --> 0:07:30.160 US particularly, you know there is really no one in 0:07:30.160 --> 0:07:33.480 in cycling or even endurance sports UM like him. Over 0:07:33.520 --> 0:07:36.600 the last couple of decades. UM, so he was banned 0:07:36.680 --> 0:07:40.920 from sports, you know, totally disgraced. UM according to the 0:07:40.520 --> 0:07:43.240 U s Anti Doping Agency. You know, it was the 0:07:43.440 --> 0:07:46.360 he was like the worst doper in history, part of 0:07:46.360 --> 0:07:49.840 the part of a team that did something just unprecedented 0:07:50.280 --> 0:07:53.000 and UM, according to government bad. The government suited him 0:07:53.000 --> 0:07:54.800 for a hundred million dollars. It's one of these things 0:07:54.840 --> 0:07:56.880 you would think, you know, Okay, this guy is never 0:07:56.920 --> 0:08:00.559 coming back from this. And what the story is about 0:08:00.960 --> 0:08:03.760 is kind of the way that Lance Armstrong UM sort 0:08:03.800 --> 0:08:08.360 of meticulously built this comeback and he started beginning with 0:08:08.400 --> 0:08:13.760 a podcast in UM. It was this confessional podcast and 0:08:14.040 --> 0:08:16.360 as the story talks about, you know, while he was 0:08:16.400 --> 0:08:18.280 doing that, it kind of looks like this you know, 0:08:18.400 --> 0:08:21.680 total you know, vanity project. But he was sort of 0:08:21.720 --> 0:08:25.000 putting the pieces into place to to start to rebuild 0:08:25.040 --> 0:08:28.000 his business empire. Well, and what you capture in this 0:08:28.120 --> 0:08:32.559 story so well, I thought, is what made him so successful, 0:08:32.679 --> 0:08:38.199 whether it was pre doping early early in his career, 0:08:38.679 --> 0:08:43.480 or even as candidly a cheater, This guy is a grinder, 0:08:43.520 --> 0:08:46.360 you know, like whatever he's gonna do he's just gonna 0:08:46.400 --> 0:08:47.960 do it and do it and do it and do it. 0:08:48.240 --> 0:08:50.840 And that's kind of what he's done here, as you say, 0:08:50.960 --> 0:08:55.160 very meticulously building this up so help us understand what 0:08:55.240 --> 0:08:58.560 he's doing. He's got this podcast, but there's merch, I mean, 0:08:58.600 --> 0:09:01.599 there's an event series he's out and about what's he 0:09:01.720 --> 0:09:04.920 up to? So yeah, I mean, probably the best way 0:09:04.960 --> 0:09:07.200 to think of about him is as like a YouTube 0:09:07.200 --> 0:09:10.480 star or an influencer. Um, he's got a a new 0:09:10.520 --> 0:09:14.040 media platform with a pretty sizable audience. Story during the 0:09:14.240 --> 0:09:17.040 Tour de France with which just uh wrapped up a 0:09:17.200 --> 0:09:19.240 you know, a little less than a week ago. You know, 0:09:19.400 --> 0:09:22.679 this podcast was was near the top of the iTunes charts. Um. 0:09:22.720 --> 0:09:25.319 And he's sort of using that and using the community 0:09:25.320 --> 0:09:27.280 of fans that that, you know, as he pointed out 0:09:27.280 --> 0:09:29.679 to me, they never went away. I mean, you know, 0:09:30.160 --> 0:09:34.040 Nike and and every authority figure can say Lance Armstrong 0:09:34.120 --> 0:09:37.960 is bad, um, but there's like a pretty sizeable chunk 0:09:38.120 --> 0:09:41.240 of sports fandom that will love him no matter what. 0:09:41.520 --> 0:09:43.520 And kind of what he figured out and what others 0:09:43.520 --> 0:09:46.120 have figured out, frankly, is that if you have a 0:09:46.120 --> 0:09:49.160 new media platform like a podcast, you can bring those 0:09:49.200 --> 0:09:52.520 people to you you know, once a week or or 0:09:52.559 --> 0:09:55.040 every day or what have you, and then you can 0:09:55.200 --> 0:09:58.000 you can send them to events. So so Armstrong has 0:09:58.040 --> 0:10:00.560 these um they're not races be as he's sort of 0:10:00.559 --> 0:10:04.200 banned from uh you know, organized cycling, from sanctioned races, 0:10:04.240 --> 0:10:07.640 but their rides um and uh. And then he has 0:10:08.040 --> 0:10:11.679 basically an athletic brand called We Do uh W E 0:10:11.800 --> 0:10:15.640 d U uh and and the they're selling kits cycling 0:10:15.679 --> 0:10:18.800 gear basically, and water bottles and and you know the 0:10:18.880 --> 0:10:21.400 kind of stuff that that apparel companies have sold. And 0:10:21.400 --> 0:10:24.320 then he's got one of these kind of um Patreon 0:10:24.520 --> 0:10:28.120 style membership programs where fans are paying sixty dollars a 0:10:28.200 --> 0:10:30.840 year and they get you know, special access to gear, 0:10:31.000 --> 0:10:34.200 they get you know, special live Q and a podcasts 0:10:34.280 --> 0:10:36.880 and and you know all sorts of little member perk 0:10:37.000 --> 0:10:41.400 stickers and kind of the what's amazing here to me anyway, 0:10:41.800 --> 0:10:43.920 is he's basically, I mean, he's not as rich as 0:10:43.920 --> 0:10:45.520 he used to be, you know, and he's talked on 0:10:45.559 --> 0:10:48.200 the podcast about you know, he misses his private jet 0:10:48.480 --> 0:10:50.880 or whatever. But but he's kind of got the band 0:10:50.880 --> 0:10:53.400 back together. And you know, I was listening to the 0:10:53.400 --> 0:10:55.840 podcast during the Tour de France, and you know it 0:10:55.880 --> 0:10:58.680 was I mean, it was a really exciting tour. And um, 0:10:58.720 --> 0:11:02.040 you've got Lance Armstrong wrong. Uh, you know the disgrace 0:11:02.080 --> 0:11:05.320 cyclist George Hincope, his his teammate who was you know, 0:11:05.760 --> 0:11:07.959 a domestique which is like a sort of a helper 0:11:08.000 --> 0:11:11.400 cyclist on the on the great um Us postal teams 0:11:11.520 --> 0:11:13.160 of the of the late nineties. And then you have 0:11:13.240 --> 0:11:16.360 Johann Berneil, who was another um sort of acute you know, 0:11:16.440 --> 0:11:19.719 part of the alleged you know, doping conspiracy. So it's 0:11:19.760 --> 0:11:22.840 like all these guys who basically the cycling authority who 0:11:22.960 --> 0:11:25.200 you know, sort of mainstream sports has said, you know, 0:11:25.320 --> 0:11:27.800 get out there. They're back in and they're all together 0:11:27.880 --> 0:11:29.839 and they're sort of doing what they've always done well 0:11:29.880 --> 0:11:32.559 and notably. I mean, wasn't Hincope one of the guys 0:11:32.600 --> 0:11:36.800 who ultimately helped take Armstrong down? Yeah, you know I 0:11:36.800 --> 0:11:39.560 talked to Hincopy about that. I mean he I think 0:11:39.840 --> 0:11:43.680 you know, basically, Armstrong, you know, had had a difficult time. 0:11:43.679 --> 0:11:47.720 Obviously the government was was going after um, you know him, 0:11:47.760 --> 0:11:50.280 and then and then attempting to flip all these witnesses 0:11:50.360 --> 0:11:53.120 and and you know, I think Hinkompe and a bunch 0:11:53.120 --> 0:11:56.480 of other people in that circle sort of briefly lost 0:11:56.520 --> 0:11:59.520 touch with Armstrong and uh, Hincopy told me, you know, 0:11:59.520 --> 0:12:01.880 they didn't seek for a while, but you know they've 0:12:01.880 --> 0:12:04.600 built back the relationship and and it's something that I think, 0:12:04.679 --> 0:12:06.719 you know, sports fans in general are doing for better 0:12:06.800 --> 0:12:08.520 or worse. Now, we should say there are a lot 0:12:08.520 --> 0:12:11.000 of people, um, both in terms of sort of the 0:12:11.440 --> 0:12:14.200 cancer world. You know, Lance Armstrong was was a huge 0:12:14.720 --> 0:12:17.800 um sort of activist, philanthropists and and cancer. A lot 0:12:17.800 --> 0:12:20.520 of people felt betrayed. Those people, many of them still 0:12:20.559 --> 0:12:23.040 feel betrayed. Um. You also have a lot of people, 0:12:23.080 --> 0:12:25.600 you know in sports who who still you know, are 0:12:25.640 --> 0:12:27.800 never going to forgive this guy. And you know they're 0:12:27.800 --> 0:12:30.400 good reasons for that. There's a long paper trail of 0:12:30.559 --> 0:12:35.160 basically betrayal. Right well, because it wasn't only what he did, 0:12:35.360 --> 0:12:39.760 but the vitriol with which he defended himself, which leads 0:12:39.760 --> 0:12:44.440 me to this last question, which is how is he 0:12:44.960 --> 0:12:49.319 from a personality perspective, because to say he was defiant 0:12:49.520 --> 0:12:52.760 for a long time is an understatement. And you know 0:12:52.880 --> 0:12:56.400 he uses language that I won't repeat here on this 0:12:56.480 --> 0:13:00.360 family program about his state of mind throughout what's he 0:13:00.520 --> 0:13:06.080 like now? He's you know, I think Lance Armstrong is 0:13:06.200 --> 0:13:10.319 sort of a communications genius, and he, you know, during 0:13:10.520 --> 0:13:13.000 his his career was able to take this kind of 0:13:13.080 --> 0:13:16.280 niche sport um and this really unique story, you know, 0:13:16.360 --> 0:13:19.559 his the fact that he survived you know, late stage 0:13:19.600 --> 0:13:23.600 testicular cancer and basically turned cycling into a huge thing 0:13:23.640 --> 0:13:27.320 make make himself, uh you know, a skinny road cyclist, 0:13:27.360 --> 0:13:29.959 not normally a marketable commodity into you know, one of 0:13:30.000 --> 0:13:32.880 the highest paid athletes in the world. Um, he's kind 0:13:32.920 --> 0:13:35.120 of doing the same thing now. So so like he's 0:13:35.200 --> 0:13:38.680 still combative. I mean he he you know, told me 0:13:38.720 --> 0:13:41.000 he hates the media, and you know, kind of apologized 0:13:41.040 --> 0:13:44.040 to me for it, and and and uh and so 0:13:44.640 --> 0:13:47.160 there's kind of this weird thing where he he sort 0:13:47.160 --> 0:13:49.480 of hates the media and and he he doesn't he 0:13:49.520 --> 0:13:52.200 hasn't stopped hating the media, hasn't stopped being sort of 0:13:52.200 --> 0:13:54.840 a difficult interview and and all of those things. But 0:13:54.880 --> 0:13:57.200 he's also kind of found ways to cultivate the parts 0:13:57.240 --> 0:14:01.360 of his personality that you know, make for good podcast. 0:14:01.440 --> 0:14:04.240 I mean, what's what's so wonderful? I mean, and you know, 0:14:04.559 --> 0:14:06.720 even if you really don't like Lance Armstrong, you kind 0:14:06.720 --> 0:14:08.760 of have to admit that the podcast themselves are super 0:14:08.880 --> 0:14:12.200 entertaining because he is good at it. He can be vulnerable, 0:14:12.480 --> 0:14:16.480 he can mind those pieces of himself that are really compelling, 0:14:16.520 --> 0:14:18.800 and so it's it's you know, even if you don't 0:14:18.840 --> 0:14:21.360 like him, you sort of can't help. But listen, that's 0:14:21.440 --> 0:14:24.480 Max Chafkin and Jason that Land's Armstrong. I hadn't thought 0:14:24.480 --> 0:14:26.480 about him and so long I'm going to call him 0:14:26.480 --> 0:14:29.760 my new combat kid. Yeah. Absolutely, And you know, the 0:14:29.840 --> 0:14:34.840 podcast format is really amenable apparently to him. He's a 0:14:34.840 --> 0:14:38.600 little bit confessional and it seems to be working. So 0:14:38.840 --> 0:14:41.480 Victoria's Secret very much in the news, not in the 0:14:41.520 --> 0:14:44.840 way that it would like to be. It's CEO and 0:14:45.040 --> 0:14:50.560 his association, his longtime association with Jeffrey Epstein, who is 0:14:50.920 --> 0:14:54.400 under an enormous amount of scrutiny currently in jail in 0:14:54.480 --> 0:15:00.360 New York City awaiting trial. Jordan Holman follows all of 0:15:00.400 --> 0:15:04.320 this for us and takes us inside Victoria's Secret. Not 0:15:04.440 --> 0:15:07.400 a great moment for Victoria's Secret, correct, So it's not 0:15:07.440 --> 0:15:10.440 a great moment, right, now for Victoria's Secret for multiple reasons. 0:15:10.760 --> 0:15:14.400 So they're CEO um Les Wexner, who also runs L 0:15:14.480 --> 0:15:17.840 brands in bath and body works. He has a longtime 0:15:17.920 --> 0:15:22.160 friendship with Jeffrey Epstein. At one point, Um Jeffrey Epstein 0:15:22.320 --> 0:15:25.160 was the power of attorney for Less Wexner. They say 0:15:25.240 --> 0:15:28.120 that they suffered ties more than a dozen years ago, 0:15:28.600 --> 0:15:32.120 but just the skeletons in that closet have caused more 0:15:32.200 --> 0:15:34.200 issues for the company down the line in terms of 0:15:34.240 --> 0:15:37.520 the modeling agency they use and just responding to consumer 0:15:37.560 --> 0:15:41.920 demand for today and so beyond the relationship between these 0:15:41.920 --> 0:15:45.880 two men, which I think it's safe to say more 0:15:45.920 --> 0:15:48.760 to come on that it feels like there's more to 0:15:48.840 --> 0:15:53.200 be revealed. This is coming at a time where Victoria's 0:15:53.240 --> 0:15:57.520 Secret does not feel, shall we say, without being too glib, 0:15:57.840 --> 0:16:00.880 doesn't feel very twenty nineteen. No, not at all. So 0:16:01.040 --> 0:16:03.560 they've in the past few years, Victoria's Secret has gotten 0:16:03.560 --> 0:16:07.120 a lot of criticism for not being body positive, more 0:16:07.120 --> 0:16:10.960 inclusive with their advertising, who's on their catwalks for the 0:16:10.960 --> 0:16:13.680 fashion show. And at the same time they've had a 0:16:13.720 --> 0:16:16.560 lot of competitors come into the space and say, actually, 0:16:16.600 --> 0:16:19.280 we want to make laundry for women and not for 0:16:19.360 --> 0:16:22.120 men just to look at, and Victoria's Secret has not 0:16:22.240 --> 0:16:26.040 quickly shifted to that trend. That's happening because it's fair 0:16:26.080 --> 0:16:29.600 to say, I think Jordan's that no one has essentially 0:16:29.920 --> 0:16:35.320 used sex and maybe more specifically sexy ness to better 0:16:35.360 --> 0:16:39.040 effect or two more profitable effect than Victoria's Secret. As 0:16:39.040 --> 0:16:42.800 you point out in your story, the words sexy finds 0:16:42.840 --> 0:16:46.200 itself into the names of its products. Yes, literally, they've 0:16:46.240 --> 0:16:50.280 trademarked dozens of products with the name sex sexy in it, 0:16:50.560 --> 0:16:52.840 and then on top of it. Some history on Victoria's Secret. 0:16:52.880 --> 0:16:55.240 It was created more than forty years ago by a 0:16:55.320 --> 0:16:58.440 man who went into a department store to buy lingerie 0:16:58.520 --> 0:17:01.280 for his wife, did not love the arians, and said, hey, 0:17:01.440 --> 0:17:03.480 I'm going to create a store that men feel comfortable 0:17:03.520 --> 0:17:06.480 buying women's underwear. That's how you get Victoria's Secret. So 0:17:06.520 --> 0:17:09.919 they were founded with men in mind, even though there 0:17:09.960 --> 0:17:13.440 in customers a woman. So that is you know, they're 0:17:13.440 --> 0:17:15.639 dealing with that history, and that's why they're kind of 0:17:15.760 --> 0:17:19.720 very slow to respond to this. Women are speaking oun 0:17:19.760 --> 0:17:22.119 saying we don't want that type of product anymore, and 0:17:22.119 --> 0:17:25.600 that's reflecting in their sales. They've lost twenty billion dollars 0:17:25.600 --> 0:17:28.440 in market value in just the past four years. That's 0:17:28.440 --> 0:17:31.480 such an interesting point to history and really important important 0:17:31.520 --> 0:17:34.480 to point out. And you know, you fast forward to 0:17:34.840 --> 0:17:37.720 closer to the president, and you have this chief marketing 0:17:37.760 --> 0:17:42.639 officer who is seen as this uber powerful guy in 0:17:42.840 --> 0:17:48.080 the modeling industry and in the sort of lingerie fashion industry. 0:17:48.280 --> 0:17:52.080 You have a great anecdote about him backstage at the 0:17:52.080 --> 0:17:55.000 fashion show. Tell us about that. So ed Razik, he 0:17:55.160 --> 0:17:58.280 is the chief marketing officer of Victoria's Secret. He's seventy 0:17:58.320 --> 0:18:00.880 one years old, and he's really he's the one who 0:18:00.960 --> 0:18:03.720 runs this fashion show. Less Wexner's a little bit more 0:18:03.720 --> 0:18:06.600 removed from it, and he takes his job very seriously. 0:18:07.119 --> 0:18:10.159 So um in between the tapings of the Victoria's Secret 0:18:10.200 --> 0:18:14.840 fashion shows as two tapings, he gathers all the models together, 0:18:14.920 --> 0:18:17.639 all the angels, and basically talks to them as if 0:18:17.680 --> 0:18:19.919 he's a coach, giving them a pep talk before the 0:18:19.960 --> 0:18:22.960 big game. And he says, literally, in the history of 0:18:23.000 --> 0:18:25.280 the world, there has not been a more important job 0:18:25.480 --> 0:18:28.399 than being a Victoria's Secret Angel. Only a hundred and 0:18:28.400 --> 0:18:31.680 sixty five women have had this job. At this point 0:18:31.840 --> 0:18:34.399 in the history of the world. It's very over the top. 0:18:34.680 --> 0:18:37.800 He's very much looking at their jobs through this lens 0:18:37.880 --> 0:18:40.760 of you guys are wearing you know, these underwear with 0:18:40.840 --> 0:18:43.640 the angel wings, and this is the most important job 0:18:43.640 --> 0:18:45.960 and used to be proud of yourselves and most women 0:18:46.000 --> 0:18:50.159 can't do this, right, amazing? I mean that, I have 0:18:50.320 --> 0:18:55.240 to say reading this, you just encounter this company, especially 0:18:55.280 --> 0:18:57.920 in light of what their competitors are doing, as you mentioned, 0:18:58.119 --> 0:19:00.320 that just feels out of step. Tell us a little 0:19:00.320 --> 0:19:03.399 bit about the competition, because to be fair, Victoria's Secret 0:19:03.840 --> 0:19:07.040 wasn't the only company you think about American Apparel. You 0:19:07.040 --> 0:19:10.080 think about Abercrombie and Fitch, all of whom, each of 0:19:10.119 --> 0:19:13.880 whom have used sex to sell in different ways as well. 0:19:13.920 --> 0:19:18.680 And yet those other companies have kind of gotten the joke. Yeah, 0:19:18.720 --> 0:19:22.000 so in retail it's not new to use sexy to advertise. 0:19:22.240 --> 0:19:24.960 But what's happened with the companies you name American Apparel 0:19:25.200 --> 0:19:27.840 and you have Abercambi Infins. They got hit by that, 0:19:28.000 --> 0:19:30.320 you know, people, they got a lot of criticism. They 0:19:30.320 --> 0:19:33.320 had to reel that back. Um, American Apparel isn't as 0:19:33.320 --> 0:19:35.479 strong as they used to be. Abercombie, they you know, 0:19:35.560 --> 0:19:38.360 turned on the lights and they've changed their mannequins, all 0:19:38.359 --> 0:19:41.560 that kind of stuff. Victoria's Secret has been more resistant 0:19:41.760 --> 0:19:43.879 and so during this time, even though they still have 0:19:44.000 --> 0:19:47.159 a lot of market share in the lingerie industry, you 0:19:47.240 --> 0:19:50.639 have American Eagles Area, which is like braw Letts and 0:19:50.680 --> 0:19:53.400 more body positive, and teams really love it, and they're 0:19:53.440 --> 0:19:56.239 marketing and using women of all sizes, not like what 0:19:56.280 --> 0:19:58.160 you're used to seeing if you walk into a Victoria's 0:19:58.160 --> 0:20:01.160 Secret store. So you have that, you have smaller competitors 0:20:01.200 --> 0:20:03.960 like Third Love Um and it's all with the woman 0:20:04.240 --> 0:20:06.440 in mine at the end of the day. And that's 0:20:06.480 --> 0:20:10.399 not what's happening at Victoria's Secret. And that's Jordan Holman Taylor, 0:20:10.440 --> 0:20:13.639 what a smart story, because it's very bloomberg in a 0:20:13.680 --> 0:20:16.560 lot of ways, that Jeffrey Epstein story. Its tentacles are 0:20:16.560 --> 0:20:20.800 going everywhere, and yet Victoria's Secret, it's bigger than just 0:20:20.920 --> 0:20:23.359 this one guy. Crazy enough, though, Jason, we took a 0:20:23.359 --> 0:20:26.360 look at the annual revenue this company, Victoria's Secret still 0:20:26.359 --> 0:20:28.960 pulling in more than seven billion dollars. Hard to see 0:20:28.960 --> 0:20:31.600 how they're going to go anywhere from here exactly so Taylor, 0:20:31.640 --> 0:20:34.919 one of the most interesting battle grounds right now across 0:20:35.119 --> 0:20:39.920 all of the world. A business is streaming your eyeballs. 0:20:40.200 --> 0:20:43.600 Everybody wants them. Felix to Lette is here to bring 0:20:43.640 --> 0:20:47.800 us up to date on the streaming wars. It's getting crazy, 0:20:47.840 --> 0:20:51.520 it is. It's this incredible showdown and the next year 0:20:51.720 --> 0:20:55.000 it's just going to get even more fierce and even 0:20:55.000 --> 0:20:58.679 more brutal. For you know, all these tech and media 0:20:58.720 --> 0:21:01.359 companies are piloting into the space. So we've talked to 0:21:01.359 --> 0:21:04.560 you before about this collision, you know, this collision course 0:21:04.600 --> 0:21:07.560 that all these companies have been on. It's been looming 0:21:07.640 --> 0:21:10.240 for a while. But as you say, this is really 0:21:10.480 --> 0:21:13.280 where it comes to bear. Netflix doesn't have this to 0:21:13.359 --> 0:21:16.200 themselves anymore. Netflix and Amazon, I guess I should say, 0:21:16.240 --> 0:21:18.960 don't have this to themselves anymore. Disney seems to be 0:21:19.240 --> 0:21:21.920 and Disney is leading the charge. So Disney Plus will 0:21:21.920 --> 0:21:26.280 be arriving in November. That's gonna be huge, um, you know. 0:21:26.720 --> 0:21:30.399 And then following after closely after that, um, you know, 0:21:30.520 --> 0:21:32.879 next spring, we're gonna have HBO, Max is going to 0:21:32.960 --> 0:21:37.080 be arriving. NBC is putting together they're streaming uh subscription 0:21:37.160 --> 0:21:40.159 video on demand service, so uh, and also you have 0:21:40.240 --> 0:21:44.080 Apple coming in sometimes this fall also with Apple Video 0:21:44.600 --> 0:21:46.600 TV Plus, which is gonna be coming in there. So 0:21:46.640 --> 0:21:48.679 it's you know, yeah, for a long time it was 0:21:48.720 --> 0:21:51.800 kind of Netflix, a little bit of Amazon, maybe check 0:21:51.800 --> 0:21:54.840 out CBS All Access. All of a sudden, it's just 0:21:54.880 --> 0:21:58.520 gonna be this uh, you know, wide open field. Well, 0:21:58.520 --> 0:22:00.360 and you have to hand it to Netflix. I mean, 0:22:00.359 --> 0:22:02.920 they really sort of paved the way, and it feels 0:22:03.000 --> 0:22:05.760 to me like everyone else playing catch up. Really at 0:22:05.800 --> 0:22:09.560 this point, how worried is Netflix? I don't think they're 0:22:09.600 --> 0:22:12.479 too worried in the sense that they do have a 0:22:12.520 --> 0:22:15.000 little bit of a buffer. They have the rights for 0:22:15.080 --> 0:22:17.960 a lot of these shows that they've licensed from these companies. 0:22:17.960 --> 0:22:20.080 Some of them are coming to an end. And there's 0:22:20.080 --> 0:22:22.399 been a lot of news recently about you know, a 0:22:22.520 --> 0:22:24.520 T and T paying this vast amount of money to 0:22:24.600 --> 0:22:29.000 get Friends back from Netflix, one of Netflix's most popular shows, 0:22:29.000 --> 0:22:31.879 which is to me kind of amazing. Also, but you 0:22:31.920 --> 0:22:34.600 know that's gonna cost you know, hundred million dollars or 0:22:34.640 --> 0:22:37.680 whatever they were getting from Netflix. You give up that 0:22:37.720 --> 0:22:40.000 money so you can bring it over to HBO Max 0:22:40.359 --> 0:22:43.400 and hope that you know, Friends fans will come over 0:22:43.520 --> 0:22:46.560 to HBO Max as a new service. But it kind 0:22:46.560 --> 0:22:50.600 of like gets to what's also just so daunting about 0:22:50.640 --> 0:22:54.159 this competition is you know, for years these media companies, 0:22:54.680 --> 0:22:58.080 you know, as DVD sales were declining, they made up 0:22:58.119 --> 0:23:01.560 that money by licensing their show to Netflix and Amazon. 0:23:01.840 --> 0:23:03.480 And it was kind of easy money. I mean it 0:23:03.520 --> 0:23:05.280 was you didn't really have to do much. You already 0:23:05.280 --> 0:23:08.080 made the shows and they were getting good prices for them. 0:23:08.119 --> 0:23:11.399 And now it's that's part of the difficult decision. Okay, 0:23:11.400 --> 0:23:13.640 we're gonna give up that easy money. We're gonna bring 0:23:13.640 --> 0:23:17.359 those shows back. And the big question is how many 0:23:17.359 --> 0:23:20.679 of those subscribers can you bring back and get them 0:23:20.720 --> 0:23:23.000 to test out these new services. One of the questions 0:23:23.040 --> 0:23:26.200 that I keep thinking about is how do you delineate 0:23:26.400 --> 0:23:31.440 value between existing shows? The Friends, which, as you say, 0:23:31.480 --> 0:23:34.800 like has a popularity that I think baffles at least me. 0:23:35.240 --> 0:23:38.440 I'm also baffled by the continuing popularity in my own 0:23:38.480 --> 0:23:41.800 house with my teenagers of the office, I mean, which 0:23:41.840 --> 0:23:46.680 is another hundred million a year property which NBC is 0:23:46.720 --> 0:23:49.480 going to bring back for their stream in straw. Yeah, 0:23:49.520 --> 0:23:51.600 I mean, what is a successful show? I mean that 0:23:51.720 --> 0:23:53.840 is a huge question that we knew what a successful 0:23:53.840 --> 0:23:58.480 show was in the old paradigm of broadcast and cable television, 0:23:58.840 --> 0:24:01.679 and now this is a new world. It's not based 0:24:01.760 --> 0:24:05.040 on advertising as much. Now it's based on this fierce 0:24:05.040 --> 0:24:08.760 competition for subscribers um and that changes the dynamic of 0:24:08.800 --> 0:24:11.200 what you know in your strategy. I mean, it's interesting 0:24:11.240 --> 0:24:12.840 that one of the things that's happening now is you 0:24:12.880 --> 0:24:16.400 see this kind of similar uh, you know, all these 0:24:16.400 --> 0:24:20.760 services are trying to create tent pole events and blockbusters, 0:24:20.800 --> 0:24:23.359 sort of similar to what you had with Hollywood studios 0:24:23.400 --> 0:24:25.600 and the movie business. And I think a lot of 0:24:25.600 --> 0:24:28.720 that is, you know, shows like Game of Thrones that 0:24:28.800 --> 0:24:32.879 just creates so that are hugely expensive, but if they click, 0:24:33.040 --> 0:24:35.880 if they work and bring in uh you know, vast 0:24:35.960 --> 0:24:38.879 numbers of new subscribers and hopefully hold onto them for 0:24:38.960 --> 0:24:42.600 multiple seasons. And so yeah, that's part of the escalation 0:24:42.640 --> 0:24:45.679 of this competition. Also, I mean Amazon going out and 0:24:45.720 --> 0:24:48.639 paying two d and fifty million dollars for the rights 0:24:49.160 --> 0:24:51.960 um to do a Lord of the Rings TV series, 0:24:52.480 --> 0:24:55.280 And that's before you even start shooting, before you've even 0:24:55.680 --> 0:24:57.920 you know, hired a single actor, started script I mean, 0:24:57.920 --> 0:25:02.000 it's going to cost a lot of money, and um, everybody, 0:25:02.000 --> 0:25:06.240 it's great for you know, the the TV writers and creators, um, 0:25:06.280 --> 0:25:09.480 you know, that's the peak TV phenomenon. But I guess 0:25:09.480 --> 0:25:11.480 if you're writing the checks, it can look a little 0:25:11.480 --> 0:25:13.560 bit more like a value. Jason brought up a good 0:25:13.600 --> 0:25:17.000 point about trying to differentiate the value between existing shows 0:25:17.040 --> 0:25:19.560 and new shows. We've talked a lot about Netflix spending 0:25:19.720 --> 0:25:23.280 four or five billion dollars wacky it, you know, sometimes 0:25:23.280 --> 0:25:25.400 per quarter when we're taking a look at negative free 0:25:25.400 --> 0:25:28.359 cash flow, for example, are some of the new entrants 0:25:28.400 --> 0:25:31.520 prepared to pay that price to really heavy, heavily invest 0:25:31.600 --> 0:25:35.000 in original programming. I don't think anyone's gonna be able 0:25:35.000 --> 0:25:40.240 to match Netflix's programming budget out of the gate. I mean, uh, 0:25:40.400 --> 0:25:42.320 but they are going to spend a lot of money. 0:25:42.600 --> 0:25:44.200 Will it be enough? I mean, what's crazy? As you 0:25:44.240 --> 0:25:47.840 talk about, Oh, you know Apple, they're only going to 0:25:48.080 --> 0:25:50.880 spend a billion or two of them. That's not enough, 0:25:50.960 --> 0:25:55.040 you know. I mean Disney, which has the most enormous 0:25:55.160 --> 0:25:58.200 library of content in the world. The fact that they 0:25:58.320 --> 0:26:01.760 before they launched a new Plus and you know that 0:26:01.880 --> 0:26:04.040 they went out and oh we gotta go by twenty 0:26:04.080 --> 0:26:06.320 one century Fox. We need to really stock up on 0:26:06.359 --> 0:26:08.800 some shows. I mean, it's crazy, UM. And I think 0:26:08.800 --> 0:26:11.200 it does get to the dynamic that's changed. I mean, 0:26:11.240 --> 0:26:14.960 in the old world, if your network, UM, you know, 0:26:15.000 --> 0:26:17.920 had a little lull in programming, you're kind of insulated 0:26:18.040 --> 0:26:21.520 from UM, you know by being part of a bundle 0:26:22.119 --> 0:26:24.199 UM and people. It was hard to cancel, you know, 0:26:24.400 --> 0:26:27.160 in the subscribe. In the you know, streaming world, it's 0:26:27.200 --> 0:26:31.159 so easy to just you know, I've seen everything I 0:26:31.160 --> 0:26:33.000 want to see here, there's nothing else for me. I'm 0:26:33.000 --> 0:26:34.879 just gonna cancel this. It takes a couple of clicks. 0:26:35.280 --> 0:26:38.199 You don't have long term contracts UM, and so the 0:26:38.240 --> 0:26:40.040 churn rates are much higher. And you also have this 0:26:40.080 --> 0:26:43.119 phenomenon that people talk about now it's just the bingeing churn, 0:26:43.200 --> 0:26:45.119 which is, oh, I want to see that one show. 0:26:45.720 --> 0:26:48.800 You know, I'll subscribe, go in there, spend a week 0:26:48.920 --> 0:26:53.080 watching the show, and after a month, I'll cancel the service. UM. 0:26:53.119 --> 0:26:57.200 I think the good thing for these in this competition, UM, 0:26:57.280 --> 0:27:00.960 for the new services, is that consumer surveys show that 0:27:01.000 --> 0:27:03.560 people are willing to go test out a new service 0:27:03.840 --> 0:27:06.920 based off and on one show. So you can definitely 0:27:06.920 --> 0:27:10.280 pull people in, but the trick is, you know, how 0:27:10.320 --> 0:27:11.879 are you going to keep them? And I think to 0:27:11.920 --> 0:27:14.120 do that, yeah, you're gonna have to have vast amounts 0:27:14.160 --> 0:27:17.440 of um, you know, spend vast amounts on programming, both 0:27:17.520 --> 0:27:21.280 for original new shows and also to have you know, 0:27:21.320 --> 0:27:24.280 a really deep bench of classics. One of the things 0:27:24.280 --> 0:27:26.680 that I think certainly knocked me back, and I think 0:27:26.720 --> 0:27:29.480 even you in reporting this was the vast amount of 0:27:29.480 --> 0:27:32.800 money that Netflix alone is spending on marketing. I mean, 0:27:32.960 --> 0:27:35.040 and you have some great examples in the story of 0:27:35.080 --> 0:27:37.800 the links that they are going to to get in 0:27:37.840 --> 0:27:39.919 front of people. Talk to us about that. Yeah, I 0:27:39.920 --> 0:27:42.960 mean two point four billion dollars in marketing in two 0:27:42.960 --> 0:27:45.920 thousand and eighteen, which we were comparing that was more 0:27:46.000 --> 0:27:49.200 than you know, it's basically what HBO was spending on 0:27:49.240 --> 0:27:52.240 all of their programming and two thousands seventeen just to 0:27:52.280 --> 0:27:54.720 give you some comparisons. So, yeah, Netflix is spending a 0:27:54.760 --> 0:27:58.959 lot of money, um getting out there. Of course, they're 0:27:59.000 --> 0:28:01.520 you know, also pushing the boundaries in terms of you know, 0:28:01.600 --> 0:28:04.320 this is not just a US service. They're going all 0:28:04.359 --> 0:28:06.159 over the world with that. So that's part of the 0:28:06.200 --> 0:28:09.560 cost um but they have this incredible brand name, and yeah, 0:28:09.600 --> 0:28:12.560 they just all the different touchpoints. And there's gonna be 0:28:12.600 --> 0:28:16.640 so many shows, so many news shows, so much competition 0:28:16.680 --> 0:28:19.240 that just trying to get people's attention is going to 0:28:19.400 --> 0:28:22.199 cost huge amount of money, to the point where this 0:28:22.280 --> 0:28:26.600 is my favorite anecdote in the story, stickers in public 0:28:26.640 --> 0:28:30.920 bathrooms that have lines of cocaine and build up dollar 0:28:31.000 --> 0:28:33.679 bills to promote an arcas. Yeah, I mean that's you know, 0:28:33.840 --> 0:28:36.040 that's part of every show. You got to come up 0:28:36.040 --> 0:28:40.560 with some campaign. Uh, try and make some noise, because 0:28:40.600 --> 0:28:44.560 things do kind of come and go um a captive audience. 0:28:44.560 --> 0:28:48.760 Taylor clearly talk to me about pricing strategy, you know, 0:28:48.800 --> 0:28:54.440 because we really vary five nine for Hulu. HBO comes 0:28:54.440 --> 0:28:57.000 out fifteen dollars a month. Is it going to be 0:28:57.040 --> 0:28:59.920 a race to the bottom we're given the competitive force? 0:29:00.120 --> 0:29:02.720 Is we're all now just gonna pay five dollars a month? Yeah, 0:29:02.760 --> 0:29:05.280 I think it's it's incredible. There's gonna be a lot 0:29:05.280 --> 0:29:08.520 of pressure on HBO at that price. I mean, Disney 0:29:08.600 --> 0:29:11.800 Plus is coming in at you know, seven dollars a month, 0:29:11.880 --> 0:29:14.280 which is I mean that's like if you have kids, 0:29:14.320 --> 0:29:17.719 you're like that's babysitting costs alone. That's nothing. I'll just 0:29:17.760 --> 0:29:19.640 get that. And and yeah, I think it's gonna put 0:29:19.680 --> 0:29:23.560 a lot of pressure. Um. Netflix just raise their prices 0:29:23.600 --> 0:29:26.160 earlier this year, and what happened, you know, for the 0:29:26.200 --> 0:29:29.920 first time, they lost net subscribers in the second quarter 0:29:30.040 --> 0:29:32.080 because of those price hikes, and they didn't even raise 0:29:32.120 --> 0:29:34.760 the price that much. Um. So I think what that 0:29:34.760 --> 0:29:38.440 shows is, Yeah, it's gonna be a lot of pressure 0:29:38.840 --> 0:29:42.800 to keep prices down. And uh, you know, Disney says 0:29:42.800 --> 0:29:45.520 they don't expect to turn a profit on Disney Plus 0:29:46.000 --> 0:29:48.560 two thousand, twenty four. I mean, I think everybody is 0:29:48.560 --> 0:29:51.040 going to be losing money in the short term. And 0:29:51.080 --> 0:29:54.120 I think your hope is that, you know, three or 0:29:54.120 --> 0:29:57.400 four or five years from now, you survive, as you know, 0:29:57.480 --> 0:30:00.440 one of the top two or three services, and the 0:30:00.480 --> 0:30:03.560 competition falls back a little bit and at that point 0:30:03.640 --> 0:30:06.080 maybe you can bring up prices. You mentioned earlier this 0:30:06.120 --> 0:30:08.120 notion of peak TV, and I feel like we've been 0:30:08.160 --> 0:30:10.400 talking about that for a couple of years now. How 0:30:10.480 --> 0:30:12.720 much longer will this peak last? And what is the 0:30:12.760 --> 0:30:15.200 other side of the peak? Look like? The one way 0:30:15.200 --> 0:30:17.960 in which it's changing now is I think, uh, you're 0:30:17.960 --> 0:30:21.320 gonna see Netflix with this new increased pressure, be a 0:30:21.360 --> 0:30:26.320 little bit more conscious cost conscious about you know, uh, 0:30:26.400 --> 0:30:29.360 you know, is a show working, is an audience growing? 0:30:29.640 --> 0:30:31.880 Is it bringing in new subscribers? And if it's not, 0:30:32.720 --> 0:30:34.560 we're not going to renew it. And I think that's 0:30:34.600 --> 0:30:36.600 the thing you're starting to hear out of Hollywood now, 0:30:36.720 --> 0:30:38.880 is you know that they're being a little bit more 0:30:39.480 --> 0:30:44.440 um judiciows about renewals and um that you know, that 0:30:45.160 --> 0:30:48.200 might put a little bit of pressure on shows and 0:30:48.200 --> 0:30:50.920 it's gonna upset some fans and your favorite show gets canceled. 0:30:51.040 --> 0:30:54.400 That's Felix Gette Jason my key takeaway here. I cannot 0:30:54.400 --> 0:30:56.960 wait to see the amount of capex and negative free 0:30:57.040 --> 0:31:00.560 cash flow. As these companies spend so much on original programming, 0:31:00.880 --> 0:31:03.000 I don't think any of them are expected to post 0:31:03.000 --> 0:31:06.280 a profit through well. A major interview down in Mexico 0:31:06.440 --> 0:31:10.120 City this week, the first international interview with the relatively 0:31:10.160 --> 0:31:13.040 new President of Mexico. He has spent a lot of 0:31:13.120 --> 0:31:16.200 time am Low as they call him, has talking to 0:31:16.600 --> 0:31:19.480 the Mexican people. Now he's talking to the world. John 0:31:19.520 --> 0:31:22.320 Michael Thwaite, our editor in chief, conducted the interview, he 0:31:22.400 --> 0:31:25.760 joins me from Mexico City. So John, this was a 0:31:25.760 --> 0:31:29.000 big get. As they say, what do you think lad 0:31:29.720 --> 0:31:33.120 uh M low to talk to us at this moment. 0:31:34.480 --> 0:31:36.440 I think two things. One was a personal thing. He 0:31:36.480 --> 0:31:38.720 came to see Bloomberg when he was in opposition and 0:31:38.800 --> 0:31:41.640 he was impressed we saw him. The second thing is 0:31:41.680 --> 0:31:43.720 actually I think he does need to reach out to 0:31:43.760 --> 0:31:49.400 the world. You have the situation where he has approval ratings. Um, 0:31:49.400 --> 0:31:52.360 he is an austere populist. He's not spending money, rather 0:31:52.400 --> 0:31:55.520 the opposite, which is very, very unusual for somebody from 0:31:55.520 --> 0:31:58.240 the left. But he's got the people behind him because 0:31:58.280 --> 0:32:02.200 they think that he's against corruption. He's lean, drives around 0:32:02.200 --> 0:32:06.760 and rather not tawdry but not exactly smart voxwagon. Um, 0:32:07.040 --> 0:32:09.200 that's the bit he's doing very well. The bit he's 0:32:09.240 --> 0:32:12.160 not doing so well is reaching out to the business community, 0:32:12.200 --> 0:32:15.200 reaching out to investors, and they're there are bigger doubts 0:32:15.200 --> 0:32:18.080 about him. And why is that? I mean, is this 0:32:18.240 --> 0:32:22.280 purely economically? You look at the data coming out of 0:32:22.320 --> 0:32:25.760 Mexico and it doesn't look great, to say the least, 0:32:26.120 --> 0:32:28.800 it's slowed it's slowed down a bit and that's a mixture. 0:32:28.880 --> 0:32:31.920 That's some ways part of the good things he's doing. 0:32:32.000 --> 0:32:34.240 He's just said, I do not want I want to 0:32:34.280 --> 0:32:36.240 keep the primary surplus. I don't want to spend money. 0:32:36.280 --> 0:32:38.680 I think there's far too much money being spent corruptly, 0:32:38.720 --> 0:32:40.400 and I'm going to crack down on it. And I 0:32:40.400 --> 0:32:43.120 think on the whole, the business and the investment community 0:32:43.200 --> 0:32:46.400 quite like that. The stuff they worry about is, I 0:32:46.440 --> 0:32:49.080 suppose the economic nationalism. He's pulled back and said he 0:32:49.120 --> 0:32:51.720 doesn't want to do any more oil auctions, cancel those. 0:32:52.200 --> 0:32:54.560 And he also kind of interfered a bit. And he 0:32:54.640 --> 0:32:57.360 has this thing where every morning he does the Bress 0:32:57.360 --> 0:33:00.640 Confidence about some ninety minutes um where he just talks 0:33:00.640 --> 0:33:03.640 about what's on his mind. But he has done things like, 0:33:03.720 --> 0:33:07.000 for instance, he scrapped an air an airport project. Most 0:33:07.000 --> 0:33:10.000 people think that Mexico City needs a big new airport. 0:33:10.360 --> 0:33:12.960 He scrapped this thirteen billion one, even though it's sort 0:33:12.960 --> 0:33:15.800 of some way halfway through, and that I think, you know, 0:33:16.040 --> 0:33:18.600 that's not a good thing with investors. Investors don't like 0:33:18.680 --> 0:33:21.840 things where there's suddenly uncertainty. Well, it's hard to talk 0:33:21.880 --> 0:33:25.080 about him without talking about his neighbor in the north, 0:33:25.920 --> 0:33:29.120 Donald Trump. There have been many comparisons made between the 0:33:29.160 --> 0:33:32.520 two men their relationship. If they were on Facebook, I 0:33:32.520 --> 0:33:35.360 think they'd call it complicated, right, John, So what did 0:33:35.440 --> 0:33:37.840 he had to say? What did you take away from 0:33:38.040 --> 0:33:42.080 his view of President Trump? Well, he has been rather 0:33:42.120 --> 0:33:45.440 remarkable in that respect. Again, you know, from Mexico, man 0:33:45.480 --> 0:33:48.880 of the left, not generally somebody who would temper his 0:33:48.920 --> 0:33:51.760 words about Trump. And indeed, in the last time we 0:33:51.760 --> 0:33:53.560 spoke to him back in two thousand and seventeen, or 0:33:53.600 --> 0:33:56.600 the last time he did a big formal interview with us, 0:33:56.640 --> 0:33:59.920 he complained that Trump was setting up an atmosphere of 0:34:00.000 --> 0:34:04.560 hatred towards Mexicans and Mexican Americans. Ever since he has 0:34:04.600 --> 0:34:08.319 become president, he has been remarkably calm no matter what 0:34:08.360 --> 0:34:11.600 Trump says. He sometimes stands up to Trump, but on 0:34:11.680 --> 0:34:15.440 the whole he's resolutely polite back and even in our 0:34:15.480 --> 0:34:18.319 interview he talks about Trump becoming more moderate, which to 0:34:18.400 --> 0:34:22.520 some extent, I'm rather surprised that Fox News and Trump 0:34:22.520 --> 0:34:24.520 have not seized on as proof that he has many 0:34:24.560 --> 0:34:27.440 friends across the border. But he sits there and he 0:34:27.480 --> 0:34:30.160 takes it. He does fight back on some things an 0:34:30.160 --> 0:34:33.680 animos not probably will not agree to do this thing 0:34:33.719 --> 0:34:37.560 called safe third country status, which is what Gratemalad will 0:34:37.600 --> 0:34:40.880 have been forced into, which is where you are. You say, look, 0:34:41.000 --> 0:34:43.640 I will look after anyone looking for asylum has to 0:34:43.640 --> 0:34:46.120 get asylum with me first, Rob and come to America 0:34:46.480 --> 0:34:48.600 and Mexico. I think he's likely to say no to that. 0:34:48.719 --> 0:34:51.440 You know, he notably did not attend the G twenty 0:34:51.600 --> 0:34:55.719 summit John and has not been as engaged maybe with 0:34:55.880 --> 0:34:59.799 the broader cadra of world leaders. What do you make 0:34:59.840 --> 0:35:02.720 a that and what does that say about his statue? 0:35:02.840 --> 0:35:06.320 He's very clear. He's very clear he wants to focus 0:35:06.680 --> 0:35:09.920 purely on Mexico. He doesn't want to travel. And we asked, 0:35:09.960 --> 0:35:11.680 you know, you can talk to him about whether he 0:35:11.680 --> 0:35:13.720 would come and meet Trump, and I think the answers 0:35:14.000 --> 0:35:16.560 he'd rather Trump came to meet him. He's not being impolite, 0:35:17.040 --> 0:35:19.439 but he's basically told the Mexican people that he'd spend 0:35:19.480 --> 0:35:22.960 the first year here focusing on what he thinks he 0:35:23.000 --> 0:35:25.200 needs to do for the country. And I think also 0:35:25.280 --> 0:35:28.200 that's his style. You could see from the interview he 0:35:28.239 --> 0:35:31.880 talks very slowly, very deliberately. On the campaign, trail. He 0:35:31.960 --> 0:35:35.480 does these rallies every weekend, again a little bit like Trump, 0:35:35.480 --> 0:35:37.839 but with a very different style. He goes to all 0:35:37.880 --> 0:35:40.400 corners of Mexico and he tells them, look, he's fighting 0:35:40.400 --> 0:35:42.839 for them and he's doing things for them. And it's 0:35:42.880 --> 0:35:46.640 a very big change from pennonetto who is his predecessor. 0:35:47.120 --> 0:35:49.640 So put him in the pantheon, as it were, of 0:35:49.680 --> 0:35:51.719 the world leaders that you've talked to just over the 0:35:51.760 --> 0:35:55.800 past couple of years. I'm thinking of Putin or to Wan, May, Trump, 0:35:56.120 --> 0:35:59.360 etcetera merkele. Where does he fit in? How does he 0:35:59.440 --> 0:36:02.560 compare to his peers around the world. He has one 0:36:02.600 --> 0:36:04.959 similarity with o Down is that he believes a little 0:36:05.000 --> 0:36:08.319 bit and what might be described as an unorthodox economics um. 0:36:08.360 --> 0:36:10.000 You know, he has a sort of theory that if 0:36:10.040 --> 0:36:13.200 he cut spending, everything will be fine, and that there 0:36:13.239 --> 0:36:15.400 are some bits where and he often lashes out at 0:36:15.440 --> 0:36:18.319 what he calls sort of neoliberal So he doesn't now 0:36:18.440 --> 0:36:20.880 now that the g d p as number is not 0:36:21.000 --> 0:36:23.680 advancing as he hoped, you know, he makes comments like that. 0:36:24.080 --> 0:36:27.040 But it is a very very different style to a 0:36:27.160 --> 0:36:29.040 do and it's a much more gentle one. I think 0:36:29.080 --> 0:36:31.480 the really remarkable thing about him is this sort of 0:36:31.680 --> 0:36:34.399 man of the left who doesn't want to spend money thing. 0:36:34.520 --> 0:36:36.600 You know that that is a really unusual thing. Imagine 0:36:36.600 --> 0:36:40.040 you would spend all your life, um, Jason Kelly, waiting 0:36:40.120 --> 0:36:43.320 to become Prime Minister of Ireland or deep President of America, 0:36:43.800 --> 0:36:45.880 and throughout that entire time you had sat on the 0:36:45.960 --> 0:36:49.399 left wing talking about spending on this, doing this, doing that, 0:36:49.520 --> 0:36:52.080 and then you come into power and then actually do 0:36:52.160 --> 0:36:55.040 the opposite. You clamp down on spending because you partly 0:36:55.080 --> 0:36:57.680 because you think there is too much corruption, but also 0:36:57.719 --> 0:36:59.879 because you just want to be absolutely clear that max 0:37:00.040 --> 0:37:02.480 Go is not going to be badly run. And that's 0:37:02.560 --> 0:37:05.120 his That's a novel way of looking at it, and 0:37:05.120 --> 0:37:07.480 I think that's a very different thing. And whether he 0:37:07.520 --> 0:37:10.800 can keep on pulling that off, we'll see. That's Winberg 0:37:10.880 --> 0:37:12.880 editor in Chief John Michael Thwaite and Taylor. I was 0:37:12.920 --> 0:37:15.759 really eager to catch up with him post interview, just 0:37:15.840 --> 0:37:18.680 to see where he puts Amlo in the pantheon of 0:37:18.719 --> 0:37:20.719 world leaders that he talks to all the time while 0:37:20.800 --> 0:37:23.759 in talking about his relationship with the US, and then 0:37:23.800 --> 0:37:26.240 define some of those fiscal hawks. So if you're looking 0:37:26.360 --> 0:37:31.560 for a revolution in housing. Look no further apparently than 0:37:31.760 --> 0:37:36.080 Minneapolis didn't necessarily see that one coming. Noah bu Hire 0:37:36.200 --> 0:37:39.600 joins me from Seattle, where he has taken a look 0:37:39.600 --> 0:37:45.000 at what's happening there in the Midwest. So an unlikely place, Noah, 0:37:45.080 --> 0:37:48.440 to say the least. But what's going on in that 0:37:48.640 --> 0:37:55.360 sitting Yeah. Um, So what happened is last year Minneapolis. 0:37:56.200 --> 0:37:59.360 Every ten years, all the cities in the Twin Cities 0:37:59.400 --> 0:38:02.719 regions are quired to go through this long range planning exercise. 0:38:02.880 --> 0:38:06.880 And you know, often this this is a pretty boring exercise. 0:38:06.880 --> 0:38:08.719 Not a lot of people pay attention to it. But 0:38:09.000 --> 0:38:12.319 what happened last year when Minneapolis went through this is 0:38:12.360 --> 0:38:15.680 that they decided to really take a hard look at 0:38:16.000 --> 0:38:21.040 housing access and quality around housing. And as they were 0:38:21.080 --> 0:38:23.440 drafting this planet's over a thousand pages, it's got all 0:38:23.480 --> 0:38:26.120 sorts of stuff in it, Um, they came up with 0:38:26.160 --> 0:38:30.720 a really interesting idea, which is basically that this whole 0:38:30.800 --> 0:38:34.360 concept of single family zoning, putting one house on each 0:38:34.520 --> 0:38:39.080 residential lot, really didn't fit what the city wanted to 0:38:39.160 --> 0:38:41.720 do and what the city needed in terms of how 0:38:42.040 --> 0:38:46.120 it should grow. So um, the proposal in this really long, 0:38:46.200 --> 0:38:52.400 dense document. Uh basically was to allow by right developers 0:38:52.440 --> 0:38:54.919 to put up to a triplex on all of those 0:38:54.920 --> 0:38:58.000 single family lots. And you know, this sounds like a 0:38:58.080 --> 0:39:00.839 kind of technical thing, but it's actually a really big 0:39:00.880 --> 0:39:04.720 deal in America because it's not just Minneapolis. All across 0:39:04.840 --> 0:39:08.040 the country we've developed or in the latter half of 0:39:08.080 --> 0:39:10.960 the twentieth century, these zoning laws were a big reason 0:39:11.000 --> 0:39:15.840 why we developed really uh, low density cities. So what 0:39:15.920 --> 0:39:18.560 the leaders there in Minneapolis were trying to solve for 0:39:18.760 --> 0:39:21.440 was was a housing affordability crisis and the fact that 0:39:21.480 --> 0:39:25.160 a lot of people wanted um to move into their town. 0:39:25.480 --> 0:39:28.560 And they were also looking at some historic racial inequity 0:39:28.719 --> 0:39:33.680 in housing. Uh. You have, for instance, in Minneapolis, about 0:39:33.719 --> 0:39:38.520 six of whites are homeowners, but just around of blacks are. 0:39:38.600 --> 0:39:41.200 That's actually one of the biggest gaps in the nation. 0:39:41.760 --> 0:39:43.720 And you know, this is a city in the north. 0:39:43.800 --> 0:39:46.759 This is not exactly where people think that kind of 0:39:46.800 --> 0:39:50.040 disparity would exist. Yeah, and you point out on that 0:39:50.120 --> 0:39:52.440 exact point. I mean, you put out something really interesting 0:39:52.520 --> 0:39:56.399 in your story. You quote the mayor of Minneapolis, that's 0:39:56.480 --> 0:40:00.000 Jacob Fry. You quote him quote you had these intentionally 0:40:00.040 --> 0:40:04.000 lea segregationists and racist policies that effectively barred blacks from 0:40:04.000 --> 0:40:06.759 living in certain parts of town. But then once that 0:40:06.840 --> 0:40:10.399 became illegal, the city quotes started doing it in other 0:40:10.400 --> 0:40:13.680 ways through the zoning code. And what you end up 0:40:13.719 --> 0:40:16.480 with is a very, to say the least, sort of 0:40:16.560 --> 0:40:19.839 bifurcated city, both in terms of the geography of it 0:40:20.120 --> 0:40:26.560 and as you say, homeownership really being a sharp divide racially. Yeah, yeah, 0:40:26.600 --> 0:40:29.239 I mean that's that's exactly what the city leaders were 0:40:29.239 --> 0:40:31.640 pushing back on. And so when I went there earlier 0:40:31.680 --> 0:40:34.040 this year, I really went with two questions. One was, 0:40:34.160 --> 0:40:38.239 how did they get this to happen? Uh? This, these 0:40:38.280 --> 0:40:40.640 are the This is a kind of policy that just 0:40:40.719 --> 0:40:44.400 has been particularly fraught for local governments to take on 0:40:44.520 --> 0:40:46.680 in America because you have a lot of pushback from 0:40:46.680 --> 0:40:50.200 folks who own those single family homes Historically, Uh, we 0:40:50.239 --> 0:40:53.239 hear a lot about nimbism. Not in my backyard. Um. 0:40:53.280 --> 0:40:55.680 But the other question I was really interested in was 0:40:56.080 --> 0:40:58.960 will it work? I mean, when you actually pass this 0:40:59.040 --> 0:41:01.920 and put something like this into effect, is it going 0:41:02.000 --> 0:41:06.520 to achieve the equity and affordability goals that the city 0:41:06.560 --> 0:41:10.360 has set out? And so what did you find. Well, 0:41:10.440 --> 0:41:14.759 it's complicated, right, So on the first question, Uh, you know, 0:41:14.840 --> 0:41:17.560 it was quite a fight. I mean, they're I think 0:41:17.760 --> 0:41:20.279 one of the keys to this thing passing is that 0:41:20.320 --> 0:41:23.719 you had a change election in seventeen and you had 0:41:23.719 --> 0:41:29.000 a motivated city council UH led by UM, a politician 0:41:29.040 --> 0:41:32.040 named Lisa Bender who has a background in city planning, 0:41:32.280 --> 0:41:35.320 and set this as a as a long term goal 0:41:35.560 --> 0:41:40.000 and really worked diligently toward getting the political support for it. 0:41:40.480 --> 0:41:44.399 You also had a grassroots effort to back this plan 0:41:44.560 --> 0:41:47.719 that really spun a very positive message. Their slogan was 0:41:47.800 --> 0:41:50.920 neighbors for More neighbors UH. That really resonated with a 0:41:50.960 --> 0:41:53.200 lot of people in Minneapolis. So they built this broad 0:41:53.280 --> 0:41:56.840 coalition of people who were for the plan UM, which 0:41:57.120 --> 0:42:00.959 was pretty effective encountering UM, the NIM the sentiment, which 0:42:01.200 --> 0:42:03.719 for sure was there. I mean, this was an incredibly 0:42:03.800 --> 0:42:08.240 divisive political fight in Minneapolis last year, and the local 0:42:08.239 --> 0:42:11.279 council passed it in December. It's still awaiting sign off 0:42:11.320 --> 0:42:16.040 from a regional council, but that's expected in September. Well, 0:42:16.040 --> 0:42:17.600 and I like one of the things, one of the 0:42:17.600 --> 0:42:19.640 things you point out, no, which I really loved in 0:42:19.680 --> 0:42:22.520 your story. Is this idea that this slogan, you know, 0:42:22.560 --> 0:42:24.839 neighbors for more neighbors sort of turns on its head 0:42:25.080 --> 0:42:27.799 what we normally see as you know, neighbors for fill 0:42:27.880 --> 0:42:31.400 in the blank, which is usually neighbors against anything changing 0:42:31.440 --> 0:42:34.760 around them, Right, Yeah, Yeah, I mean they they certainly 0:42:34.800 --> 0:42:36.799 had a sense of humor, and we're good at using 0:42:36.840 --> 0:42:40.200 social media to sort of put this idea out there, 0:42:40.239 --> 0:42:41.960 and they really brought a lot of the city along 0:42:41.960 --> 0:42:45.799 with them. And so will it work because this is 0:42:45.840 --> 0:42:48.839 an experiment that is going to be looked at very 0:42:48.880 --> 0:42:52.840 closely by big cities around the United States. You know, 0:42:52.880 --> 0:42:56.240 Bender herself has gotten a lot of praise from well 0:42:56.280 --> 0:43:01.319 beyond Minneapolis for being very aggressive. This has become an 0:43:01.360 --> 0:43:06.000 issue in the election on the Democratic side already. But 0:43:06.120 --> 0:43:10.000 the question is what's going to happen? Yeah, I mean 0:43:10.040 --> 0:43:12.560 I think I think it's complicated and we're just gonna 0:43:12.600 --> 0:43:14.680 have to see how it plays out. One thing that 0:43:14.719 --> 0:43:16.319 I think is important to know is when I when 0:43:16.320 --> 0:43:18.640 I talked, I spent some time with a builder who 0:43:18.719 --> 0:43:22.360 has actually done a few triplexes around um Or. He 0:43:22.600 --> 0:43:24.920 just completed a triplex. He got a variance to do 0:43:25.040 --> 0:43:29.239 one um in in Minneapolis, and he basically told me, 0:43:29.560 --> 0:43:32.799 you know, these projects are really idiosyncratic. It's it's gonna 0:43:32.840 --> 0:43:35.839 be hard to make it a giant business opportunities. So 0:43:36.320 --> 0:43:38.560 it's it's hard to think how that one change is 0:43:38.600 --> 0:43:41.080 going to add a ton of new density to the 0:43:41.080 --> 0:43:44.840 city or a ton of new housing. UM. The plan, 0:43:45.000 --> 0:43:48.120 the urban plan that the city put forward also allows 0:43:48.160 --> 0:43:52.080 for more density for basically mid size and larger apartment 0:43:52.080 --> 0:43:54.960 buildings in other parts of town. And that's actually where 0:43:55.000 --> 0:43:58.160 it gets really interesting because the city wants to usher 0:43:58.200 --> 0:44:01.440 in this development boom, but they also want to make 0:44:01.440 --> 0:44:04.080 sure that some of those new units are affordable to 0:44:04.360 --> 0:44:07.640 you know, working class people, to low income people, and 0:44:07.800 --> 0:44:11.600 they're working through the policy for how to make that work. Uh. 0:44:11.640 --> 0:44:14.839 But in the meantime, the policy that they floated has 0:44:14.960 --> 0:44:20.080 really put a lot of the real estate industry locally. They're, uh, 0:44:20.200 --> 0:44:22.359 you know, up in arms. They're quite up in arms 0:44:22.400 --> 0:44:25.600 about it because they think they're basically being forced to 0:44:25.640 --> 0:44:28.640 pay for the city's affordable housing goals, and they think 0:44:28.680 --> 0:44:30.440 it's a non starter for a lot of their projects. 0:44:30.520 --> 0:44:32.720 So we're going to have to see how this plays 0:44:32.760 --> 0:44:36.120 out over time. UM. But like you said, this is 0:44:36.400 --> 0:44:39.600 a very very important case study in America right now 0:44:39.640 --> 0:44:43.880 for how we're gonna uh tackle our housing affordability problem, 0:44:43.920 --> 0:44:46.640 which is which is not just you know, something that's 0:44:46.680 --> 0:44:50.680 happening on the coasts is happening in the heartland. That's 0:44:50.719 --> 0:44:54.200 noah boo higher and Jason, this is a zoning story. 0:44:54.360 --> 0:44:57.880 It is a home price appreciation story. Interestingly enough that 0:44:57.960 --> 0:45:00.320 a lot of the residents maybe not three old with 0:45:00.360 --> 0:45:02.360 the new law that's going into place. Well, and I 0:45:02.400 --> 0:45:04.400 have to think, you know, coming from California being in 0:45:04.440 --> 0:45:08.080 New York, now, Taylor, you understand better than anyone. This 0:45:08.120 --> 0:45:11.960 has really complicated this whole affordable housing issue. And it's 0:45:12.000 --> 0:45:14.359 time for another edition of Business Week Talks. This week, 0:45:14.400 --> 0:45:16.600 my co host Carol Master and I sat down with 0:45:16.640 --> 0:45:20.080 the CEO of nasdac so NASA got with earnings and 0:45:20.200 --> 0:45:22.360 joining us to talk about that and really the bigger 0:45:22.400 --> 0:45:25.920 picture of the market environment, the trading environment. Is Adina Freedman. 0:45:25.960 --> 0:45:27.960 She's the CEO of NaSTA, So nice to have you 0:45:28.000 --> 0:45:29.719 here with us. It's great to be here. Thank you. 0:45:29.840 --> 0:45:31.719 Let's talk about the quarter um a little bit of 0:45:31.760 --> 0:45:33.600 a it feels like well street, we to get a 0:45:33.640 --> 0:45:35.239 little bit of a mixed picture. You did have an 0:45:35.280 --> 0:45:37.239 earnings be a little bit light on the revenues. How 0:45:37.239 --> 0:45:40.000 do you see the quarter? Well, from our perspective, we 0:45:40.080 --> 0:45:42.640 really focus on organic growth, and in our non trading 0:45:42.680 --> 0:45:45.640 businesses we grew eight percent every year, so we're really 0:45:45.680 --> 0:45:48.920 pleased with continued progress of our technology business or index 0:45:48.960 --> 0:45:52.080 and data businesses, as well as the really healthy environment 0:45:52.120 --> 0:45:53.760 we're seeing for I p o S in our corporate 0:45:53.760 --> 0:45:57.200 services business. The trading business has some fluctuation in it 0:45:57.280 --> 0:46:00.400 in terms of just overall volumes and in impact that 0:46:00.440 --> 0:46:02.319 we're having in certain parts of our market, but at 0:46:02.320 --> 0:46:04.399 the same time, we're very pleased with the market share 0:46:04.400 --> 0:46:07.400 we're experiencing in the S equities and options markets as 0:46:07.440 --> 0:46:10.680 well as our Nordic equities markets. So from a competitive perspective, 0:46:10.719 --> 0:46:13.560 we feel very good about our core marketplaces and at 0:46:13.600 --> 0:46:16.000 the same time we managed through different environments that that 0:46:16.080 --> 0:46:18.960 operate there. But in our non trading businesses, that's where 0:46:18.960 --> 0:46:21.560 we're really driving for growth and we're experiencing that. We're 0:46:21.640 --> 0:46:23.640 very pleased with that, and so talk to us about 0:46:23.680 --> 0:46:26.840 the market technology business, especially because that's something people are 0:46:26.880 --> 0:46:28.640 keeping a very close eye on one of the drivers 0:46:28.719 --> 0:46:31.080 underneath their sure Well, we actually just came out with 0:46:31.120 --> 0:46:34.240 a new metric called a r R that we launched 0:46:34.239 --> 0:46:37.320 this quarter that really shows you the recurring revenue streams 0:46:37.400 --> 0:46:39.520 and looking at kind of how we look at our 0:46:39.640 --> 0:46:43.360 our growth of our recurring revenue in that business market technology. Today, 0:46:43.400 --> 0:46:46.200 we provide the technology that powers a hundred and thirty 0:46:46.239 --> 0:46:49.280 other markets around the world, and we also provide market 0:46:49.320 --> 0:46:52.440 monitoring technology for a hundred and fifty broker dealer firms. 0:46:52.480 --> 0:46:55.640 So it's becoming a very scaled business for us. We're 0:46:55.680 --> 0:46:58.640 investing heavily in growth in that business, so in terms 0:46:58.640 --> 0:47:02.840 of generating a creating a new next gen system technology 0:47:02.840 --> 0:47:05.880 system to support our clients, moving more towards the platform 0:47:05.880 --> 0:47:09.760 as a service model, and expanding our market technology implementations 0:47:09.760 --> 0:47:13.800 beyond just the traditional capital markets into other industry verticals 0:47:14.000 --> 0:47:17.480 like insurance, um in some cases betting and other things 0:47:17.480 --> 0:47:19.400 that we've been getting involved and you guys have some 0:47:19.480 --> 0:47:22.640 news about betting and also getting involved with footballers or 0:47:22.680 --> 0:47:25.880 footballers right in terms of where clients can actually what 0:47:26.040 --> 0:47:28.839 makes some bets on them. So we are we are 0:47:28.880 --> 0:47:32.080 providing the technology to a company called the Football Index 0:47:32.200 --> 0:47:35.080 that's a UK based firm, so Football and that Carlans 0:47:35.200 --> 0:47:39.000 means soccer and UM and basically that it allows people 0:47:39.040 --> 0:47:42.040 to bet on certain players and and understand it's almost 0:47:42.040 --> 0:47:45.280 like fantasy football in a betting context. And they've created 0:47:45.280 --> 0:47:48.759 a marketplace that allows people to essentially buy interest in 0:47:48.800 --> 0:47:51.720 a player and then watch that player, UM that player's 0:47:51.760 --> 0:47:54.360 performance and understand kind of what the returns are from that. 0:47:54.520 --> 0:47:57.960 More deals like that coming. Different sports are different industries 0:47:58.000 --> 0:48:00.279 in a similar way. Well, we already are in the 0:48:00.280 --> 0:48:03.160 horse racing business. We have three racing authorities that use 0:48:03.160 --> 0:48:06.200 our paramutual betting platform and we do see that as 0:48:06.239 --> 0:48:09.160 an as an industry vertical that is obviously very relevant 0:48:09.160 --> 0:48:12.880 to real time price discovery and and high high transaction 0:48:12.920 --> 0:48:17.080 processing capacity, as well as the potential for more advanced 0:48:17.080 --> 0:48:20.759 surveillance technology. We actually have a module well and are 0:48:20.840 --> 0:48:23.400 we have a technology that we provide to the industry 0:48:23.480 --> 0:48:27.760 with regulators, exchanges and market participants that help the monitor 0:48:27.880 --> 0:48:31.640 for manipulation other nefarious behavior in the markets. Well, you 0:48:31.680 --> 0:48:34.360 can use that same technology and a betting context as well. 0:48:34.400 --> 0:48:36.680 And we do have a module that we created specifically 0:48:36.719 --> 0:48:39.600 for sports betting that would allow you to monitor the 0:48:39.640 --> 0:48:42.200 behaviors of the different people who are betting in your platform. 0:48:42.239 --> 0:48:43.480 You know, I've got to ask you because when you 0:48:43.480 --> 0:48:45.000 hear about these sports things, I think, you know, you 0:48:45.040 --> 0:48:46.760 go back, what a decade or a couple of decades, 0:48:46.800 --> 0:48:49.359 we wouldn't have thought the nastac or and exchanges would 0:48:49.360 --> 0:48:51.640 be getting into this, but it's a different environment. Does 0:48:51.680 --> 0:48:54.520 that become much more of your business, those kind of 0:48:54.920 --> 0:48:58.120 new um platforms, if you will, versus kind of the 0:48:58.120 --> 0:49:01.480 core marketing and net core marketing, but core trading so well. 0:49:01.520 --> 0:49:05.719 Today the trading business are trading revenue is is about 0:49:06.520 --> 0:49:10.480 overallent depending on the quarter of our overall revenue are 0:49:10.520 --> 0:49:15.279 recurring revenue streams are that can come from data and analytics, 0:49:15.560 --> 0:49:17.720 It can come from our corporate services, and it also 0:49:17.760 --> 0:49:20.719 comes from market technology. Our technology business think of us 0:49:20.760 --> 0:49:24.040 is almost like Switzerland. We can provide that technology to 0:49:24.160 --> 0:49:26.920 other exchanges, We could provide some of that technology to 0:49:26.960 --> 0:49:29.960 some of our competitors. We provide that technology to markets 0:49:30.040 --> 0:49:33.800 in very different spaces, not just in the traditional capital markets. 0:49:34.040 --> 0:49:36.040 And it is the fastest growing part of our business. 0:49:36.080 --> 0:49:38.720 Does it become the biggest part of your business of ultimately, well, 0:49:38.800 --> 0:49:41.200 I would love to think that as an opportunity for 0:49:41.280 --> 0:49:43.319 us over a very long term. But we obviously have 0:49:43.400 --> 0:49:45.839 other great parts of our business as well, So when 0:49:45.880 --> 0:49:49.239 you think about what's out there in terms of potential acquisitions, 0:49:49.239 --> 0:49:52.279 we've seen a huge amount of consolidation and a lot 0:49:52.280 --> 0:49:56.160 of mergers and acquisitions across the exchange business broadly defined. 0:49:56.480 --> 0:49:58.479 More to be done in the short term in terms 0:49:58.480 --> 0:50:02.280 of buying buying up things, well, I think we number 0:50:02.280 --> 0:50:05.080 one are Our primary focus is on organic growth and 0:50:05.120 --> 0:50:07.239 we do feel very good about how we're delivering on that, 0:50:07.520 --> 0:50:10.359 but we do find opportunities to make some acquisitions. We 0:50:10.560 --> 0:50:14.040 recently bought a company called snob that helps expand UH 0:50:14.120 --> 0:50:17.719 and catalyze more business into the market technology space UM. 0:50:17.719 --> 0:50:20.040 We also bought Investment, which is in our data and 0:50:20.040 --> 0:50:24.200 analytics business supporting our investment management firms. And we bought Quandole, 0:50:24.320 --> 0:50:26.359 which is a very small platform but it's in an 0:50:26.400 --> 0:50:29.960 interesting space around alternative data. So we do find ways 0:50:30.000 --> 0:50:35.000 to leverage technology or leverage acquisitions to help execute our strategy. 0:50:35.040 --> 0:50:37.560 But we have a very defined strategy, so we want 0:50:37.560 --> 0:50:39.719 to make sure that our primary focus is how we 0:50:39.760 --> 0:50:43.040 grow our relations with our clients in an organic way 0:50:43.360 --> 0:50:47.400 potentially catalyze with some acquisitions. That's as x CEO Adina Freeman. 0:50:47.480 --> 0:50:50.960 And for our full conversation, download the Bloomberg Talks podcast 0:50:51.200 --> 0:50:54.759 wherever you get your podcasts. So we heard earlier in 0:50:54.800 --> 0:50:58.799 the show from Jordan Holman on what's happening at Victoria's 0:50:58.840 --> 0:51:03.160 Secret of fascinating look at where that company may need 0:51:03.200 --> 0:51:05.760 to go next, And what was clear about that story 0:51:06.040 --> 0:51:08.839 is that there's a reckoning of sorts happening. Well, if 0:51:08.840 --> 0:51:11.520 you go back to the pursuit section toward the back 0:51:11.560 --> 0:51:14.600 of the magazine, Jordan has another piece she works very 0:51:14.640 --> 0:51:18.520 hard here at Bloomberg and it's this week's critic, And 0:51:18.640 --> 0:51:22.400 the headline alone really grabbed my attention. Who gets to 0:51:22.480 --> 0:51:25.879 be an American? Jordan's back with me here in New York. 0:51:26.360 --> 0:51:28.359 Tell me about this story, because I have to say, 0:51:28.480 --> 0:51:32.520 it really stopped me in my tracks because you take 0:51:32.600 --> 0:51:38.200 this very important notion of American and Americanism and the 0:51:38.360 --> 0:51:42.040 use of the word American in art and sort of 0:51:42.160 --> 0:51:44.960 unpack it a bit. Take me here for sure. So 0:51:45.239 --> 0:51:48.000 this year, I think one of the main conversations that's 0:51:48.040 --> 0:51:50.560 happening is who is an American? What makes you an 0:51:50.600 --> 0:51:53.920 authentic American. And as I've been mulling this question, I've 0:51:53.960 --> 0:51:57.520 been reading a lot. So there's a few handful of books. 0:51:57.600 --> 0:52:00.279 You have An American Summer, in American Merrits, you have 0:52:00.360 --> 0:52:03.120 An American Son, which is a play, and all of 0:52:03.120 --> 0:52:06.120 them actually deal with the black experience, which is kind 0:52:06.120 --> 0:52:08.719 of a shocking thing because that's not what comes to 0:52:08.760 --> 0:52:10.880 mind when a lot of people are talking about who's 0:52:10.920 --> 0:52:13.480 real America. And so I wanted to explore in this 0:52:13.560 --> 0:52:17.080 piece that this is a great subversion that's happening with 0:52:17.120 --> 0:52:19.879 this artwork, saying I'm going to show you a very 0:52:19.920 --> 0:52:23.239 specific story about an African American, and that's going to 0:52:23.320 --> 0:52:28.440 be authentic America. You quote the author of An American Marriage. 0:52:28.440 --> 0:52:30.799 I believe that saying that when she told she told 0:52:30.800 --> 0:52:33.920 her editor quote An American Marriage sounded like a novel 0:52:33.960 --> 0:52:37.520 about some white people in Connecticut experiencing feelings. I thought 0:52:37.560 --> 0:52:40.920 that just captured it so perfectly, because that is not 0:52:41.000 --> 0:52:43.040 at all what this book is about, not at all. 0:52:43.080 --> 0:52:45.239 So An American Marriage is the New York Times best 0:52:45.239 --> 0:52:48.400 selling book, and it is about a couple in Atlanta, 0:52:48.480 --> 0:52:51.640 So a black couple in Atlanta. The husband is wrongfully convicted, 0:52:51.760 --> 0:52:54.360 goes to prison, and now you're looking at what is 0:52:54.400 --> 0:52:58.680 life like when you have um an incarcerated partner. And 0:52:58.719 --> 0:53:01.479 so I loved that quote that she said as well, 0:53:01.560 --> 0:53:04.320 because even as African Americans, we've been so in and 0:53:04.400 --> 0:53:07.120 day to say like this is you know, America is 0:53:07.160 --> 0:53:10.520 wide America. And so even pushing that joke and making 0:53:10.600 --> 0:53:14.400 it reality, that's amazing, and that and oprahset that is 0:53:14.440 --> 0:53:17.000 why I picked up that book. And so it's part 0:53:17.080 --> 0:53:19.440 of that process of your giving the reader a challenge. 0:53:19.520 --> 0:53:22.000 Even before they open that book and delve into that story, 0:53:22.280 --> 0:53:25.560 you're making them think differently about like who who stories 0:53:25.600 --> 0:53:27.520 do we care about? And what does that represent in 0:53:27.560 --> 0:53:29.879 this country? Well, and as you point out, when we 0:53:29.960 --> 0:53:34.279 think about that word used in novels and movies, you 0:53:34.320 --> 0:53:37.839 think about American beauty, you know, the sort of onwi 0:53:37.920 --> 0:53:42.240 of white suburbia. You think about American Pastoral Philip Roth's 0:53:42.280 --> 0:53:45.359 novel that was turned into a movie, and those are 0:53:45.400 --> 0:53:50.600 obviously very different experience, very suburban white experiences. And yet 0:53:51.239 --> 0:53:54.040 this is happening in a different way here in twenty nineteen. 0:53:54.360 --> 0:53:57.879 You talk about an American summer, which is again a 0:53:58.040 --> 0:54:03.280 very different picture of Chicago. Right, Yes, so I'm from Chicago. 0:54:03.320 --> 0:54:05.959 I love this book, And this book is about three 0:54:06.000 --> 0:54:08.640 months in the summer. What is the effect of gun 0:54:08.719 --> 0:54:10.640 violence in the city on the people who live in 0:54:10.680 --> 0:54:13.120 these neighborhoods. So we're looking at a mother who's lost 0:54:13.120 --> 0:54:15.279 a child from gun violence, or a friend who watched his, 0:54:15.880 --> 0:54:18.240 uh you know, sixty year old friend die from gun violence, 0:54:18.280 --> 0:54:20.480 and what is the effects of living in that and 0:54:20.520 --> 0:54:24.200 not feeling like you're getting resources um to survive that. 0:54:24.600 --> 0:54:27.319 So the title of it is an American summer, and 0:54:27.400 --> 0:54:30.480 everyone loves summer conjures these images of going to the 0:54:30.480 --> 0:54:33.760 beach and having fun and being on vacation. But this author, 0:54:33.800 --> 0:54:37.680 Alex Catlowitz, he's making the argument that this too is 0:54:37.719 --> 0:54:41.200 an American summer for millions of people living in this country, 0:54:41.560 --> 0:54:44.759 and how about we give more attention to that, right well, 0:54:44.800 --> 0:54:47.200 And you also point out towards the end of this piece, 0:54:47.200 --> 0:54:51.440 which I highly recommend, this notion that what these books 0:54:51.440 --> 0:54:54.040 specifically are doing in the play you mentioned as well, 0:54:54.640 --> 0:54:58.640 is move a lot of this experience from a section 0:54:58.800 --> 0:55:01.560 maybe in a different part the bookstore, the African American section, 0:55:02.000 --> 0:55:06.280 much more into the front area in a lot of ways, 0:55:06.320 --> 0:55:08.400 you know, among all the other novels that people may 0:55:08.440 --> 0:55:10.840 be picking up, and you talk about, you know the 0:55:11.080 --> 0:55:14.080 power of seeing people read this on a train or 0:55:14.120 --> 0:55:16.680 on a beach or on a plane, and that really 0:55:17.120 --> 0:55:20.440 hopefully moves the conversation in a different direction totally. I 0:55:20.440 --> 0:55:23.360 think one of the biggest frustrations that African American writers 0:55:23.360 --> 0:55:26.040 of playwrights have is that they get typecast is like, 0:55:26.840 --> 0:55:28.880 you can be in this section and your audience is 0:55:28.960 --> 0:55:31.560 this Black Americans and enjoy that. But what I've really 0:55:31.640 --> 0:55:35.000 enjoyed about seeing these books is that I see white people, 0:55:35.080 --> 0:55:37.719 Asian people, all of different people reading it. And by 0:55:37.760 --> 0:55:41.719 reading it, you're slowly starting to unravel the assumptions we 0:55:41.760 --> 0:55:44.719 have about who belongs here, whose stories matter, and like 0:55:44.800 --> 0:55:48.040 what this country represents. And I think that's really the power. 0:55:48.080 --> 0:55:51.000 And so an American Son, the play with Carrie washington 0:55:51.520 --> 0:55:54.600 Um going through a night in a police station trying 0:55:54.640 --> 0:55:56.920 to hear word of her missing black son, that's going 0:55:56.960 --> 0:55:59.040 to go to Netflix now, So that's going to get 0:55:59.200 --> 0:56:02.920 even wider audience to start thinking about who's an American. Well, 0:56:02.960 --> 0:56:04.520 and you point out, I'm glad you brought that up, 0:56:04.560 --> 0:56:07.800 because you point out there too, that the algorithms ultimately 0:56:07.800 --> 0:56:10.239 will say to you, Okay, you liked Scandal, You're gonna 0:56:10.280 --> 0:56:13.280 like this, and so you don't. That discover ability becomes 0:56:13.320 --> 0:56:16.600 that much more important. Jordanholm in really really great piece 0:56:16.960 --> 0:56:19.680 in the Pursuit section. She is this week's critic. Thank 0:56:19.719 --> 0:56:22.120 you so much, Thank you so one of the coolest 0:56:22.160 --> 0:56:25.359 cats we know. Hannah Elliott back with me in New 0:56:25.440 --> 0:56:29.080 York City. This headline really grabbed me. The twenty million 0:56:29.120 --> 0:56:32.920 dollar Porsche that may not be a Porsche, Say what right, Well, 0:56:33.000 --> 0:56:36.120 it depends on who you ask. Now, this is the 0:56:36.200 --> 0:56:40.719 Type sixty four, a car from ninety nine made by 0:56:40.840 --> 0:56:43.880 Ferdinand Porsche himself. Now, so the Visa is selling it 0:56:43.960 --> 0:56:46.440 next month at They're Big Pebble Beach Auction, and so 0:56:46.520 --> 0:56:49.280 the Visa is calling it the Porsche Type sixty four 0:56:49.360 --> 0:56:54.240 because it was indeed made by Ferdinand Porsche. However, Porsche 0:56:54.440 --> 0:56:58.520 Company wasn't started until ten years after this car was made. 0:56:58.840 --> 0:57:02.200 This car was also made mostly VW parts or parts 0:57:02.239 --> 0:57:06.879 that Mr Porsche built himself, and um it's been augmented 0:57:06.920 --> 0:57:10.320 with parts from Fiat and a bunch of other obscure 0:57:10.400 --> 0:57:14.319 German parts makers. So is it a Porsche or isn't 0:57:14.360 --> 0:57:16.360 it. It It really depends on who you ask, And that's 0:57:16.440 --> 0:57:22.000 kind of the controversy, right. And the heritage of this car, 0:57:22.200 --> 0:57:25.880 to say the least, is complicated. Even beyond the timing 0:57:27.160 --> 0:57:31.280 we're talking about the Nazi Party in Germany. Porsche himself 0:57:31.600 --> 0:57:36.160 was ultimately served time in jail for war crimes. He 0:57:36.200 --> 0:57:40.560 was associated more than associated with the Nazis. But even 0:57:40.640 --> 0:57:44.400 the car, as you mentioned, is sort of coupled together 0:57:44.440 --> 0:57:46.640 with all these different parts, not in a way that 0:57:46.680 --> 0:57:49.240 we're used to seeing in these types of cars. Right, 0:57:49.440 --> 0:57:53.480 that's again part of the controversy. Um. This car was 0:57:53.560 --> 0:57:56.080 owned for over four years by the same man Otto 0:57:56.160 --> 0:57:59.720 Matthew who had it until he died. In Otto race 0:57:59.880 --> 0:58:03.720 the car and it got crashed, as it happens in racing. 0:58:03.840 --> 0:58:07.640 The car has been painted a bunch of colors, turquoise, silver, black, UM. 0:58:07.680 --> 0:58:10.720 The engine has been switched out multiple times, the breaks, 0:58:11.040 --> 0:58:14.920 the transmission, it's been a lot of things. Um. Some 0:58:15.080 --> 0:58:17.480 of the original parts are still with the car, however 0:58:17.520 --> 0:58:22.080 they're not in the car. So again, this is it's 0:58:22.120 --> 0:58:24.880 it's really getting to the nut of what is original. 0:58:24.920 --> 0:58:26.680 This car has never been restored though so a lot 0:58:26.720 --> 0:58:30.640 of people say, look, this is the car in pristine 0:58:30.800 --> 0:58:33.920 condition because it has never been restored. This is truly 0:58:33.960 --> 0:58:36.600 how it is. What you see is what you get. 0:58:36.920 --> 0:58:38.920 But other people say, well, it hardly has any of 0:58:38.960 --> 0:58:41.760 the original parts that were put in by Mr Porsche himself. 0:58:41.760 --> 0:58:47.840 In again, it's really controversial, and so as you say, 0:58:47.880 --> 0:58:51.400 different people feel very strongly about this, and in the 0:58:51.400 --> 0:58:55.840 middle of it essentially saying nothing is the modern Porsche 0:58:55.920 --> 0:58:59.760 company itself is Porsche. And that's another very interesting aspect. 0:58:59.840 --> 0:59:03.280 The Porsche Museum UM during the nineteen fifties and sixties 0:59:03.320 --> 0:59:05.560 tried to buy this car many times. There are over 0:59:05.640 --> 0:59:08.680 forty letters between Otto Matthew, the owner, and the Porsche 0:59:08.760 --> 0:59:10.800 family trying to buy this car back as part of 0:59:10.800 --> 0:59:14.320 the Porsche heritage. The Porsche Museum is a great space 0:59:14.360 --> 0:59:17.640 and Stutgard, Germany has many members of the Porsche family there. 0:59:17.840 --> 0:59:20.320 You would think they would want this if they recognize 0:59:20.320 --> 0:59:23.160 it as part of their lineage. The DNA of the company, 0:59:23.200 --> 0:59:25.040 of course, you can see this car looks very much 0:59:25.080 --> 0:59:29.800 like the three Porsche. The museum has not responded to 0:59:29.800 --> 0:59:33.280 a request for comment, has not released any official comments 0:59:33.320 --> 0:59:36.200 on this car. They are very very quiet about it. Yeah, 0:59:36.200 --> 0:59:39.240 it's interesting too. As you point out, Porsche himself, Mr 0:59:39.240 --> 0:59:42.480 Porsche himself referred to this car the type sixty four 0:59:42.560 --> 0:59:46.280 as in English the ancestor. So that seems to tell 0:59:46.320 --> 0:59:48.960 you at least something about this certainly, and there's no 0:59:49.120 --> 0:59:51.320 denying that if you look at this car you can 0:59:51.360 --> 0:59:54.360 see the influences into the three six and even the 0:59:54.440 --> 0:59:57.240 nine eleven, the cars that came after it. It's certainly 0:59:58.320 --> 1:00:02.360 UH is in part the ether of what became Porsche. 1:00:02.760 --> 1:00:05.880 So exactly. Well, it's a wonderful story. So moving on, 1:00:06.160 --> 1:00:09.600 just more evidence that you are such a cool chick. 1:00:09.680 --> 1:00:12.520 If I may say that you write in this week's 1:00:12.560 --> 1:00:17.560 the one I believe about a really cool guitar, Cindy 1:00:17.600 --> 1:00:20.520 Guitarist tell us about this. It's a beautiful that talk 1:00:20.560 --> 1:00:22.760 about a beautiful piece of machinery. Wow, I love it. 1:00:22.840 --> 1:00:27.320 And it's so rare to find instruments that are being handmade. Still, 1:00:27.840 --> 1:00:32.120 these are built by UH Cindy of Cindy Guitars um 1:00:32.160 --> 1:00:34.560 in the shop Carmine Street Guitars in New York City. 1:00:34.680 --> 1:00:37.520 And the cool thing about these cars are guitars are handmade, 1:00:37.680 --> 1:00:42.160 but they're using wood reclaimed from historic buildings around New York, 1:00:42.200 --> 1:00:46.760 buildings from the Bowery Old churches, um old saloons, and 1:00:46.800 --> 1:00:50.320 they're made, you know, over months of time by hand 1:00:50.360 --> 1:00:53.560 to be really customized, and so so much of what 1:00:53.640 --> 1:00:56.560 they do when their customized is they try and capture 1:00:56.680 --> 1:00:59.200 the personality of the player, right, tell us how you 1:00:59.240 --> 1:01:02.360 do that? Well, there's a lot of talking going on, 1:01:02.400 --> 1:01:04.640 a lot of back and forth consultations. You know, what 1:01:04.760 --> 1:01:07.520 is special to that artist. Maybe it would be a 1:01:07.560 --> 1:01:09.640 little eye on the back of the back of the 1:01:09.680 --> 1:01:11.840 guitar that is like any you know to ward off 1:01:12.040 --> 1:01:16.480 bad spirits or pinstriping flames, you name it, right, Keith 1:01:16.600 --> 1:01:19.640 Richards he plays one of these, Yes he does. All right, 1:01:19.800 --> 1:01:23.080 So what's this going to run you? The one we 1:01:23.200 --> 1:01:26.280 feature in this section is about four thousand dollars. Wow. 1:01:26.440 --> 1:01:29.560 And so if you're looking for this type of guitar, 1:01:30.000 --> 1:01:32.480 what else might you go? Because you guys always talk 1:01:32.520 --> 1:01:35.600 about the competition. Sure, there's Tom Anderson guitars and he's 1:01:35.680 --> 1:01:40.560 really the icon of the era. He's in California, he's 1:01:40.560 --> 1:01:44.080 been doing it since the seventies. Yeah, alright, so people 1:01:44.080 --> 1:01:46.040 should go out and buy this one, think, Yeah, I like, 1:01:46.120 --> 1:01:48.959 I mean, I like, it's Cindy's in her twenties. Still, 1:01:49.040 --> 1:01:51.480 it's very rare to find a young woman. She's apprentice 1:01:51.760 --> 1:01:55.560 apprentice there for many years and she's really a rising star. Wow, 1:01:55.640 --> 1:01:59.280 it's a really really cool looking guitar, cars, guitars. You're 1:01:59.280 --> 1:02:01.640 good for everything, Anna Elliott, thanks so much, thank you, 1:02:01.800 --> 1:02:04.960 And that wraps up Bloomberg Business Week's weekend of podcast. 1:02:05.040 --> 1:02:08.240 Thanks for joining us. I'm Taylor Riggs in for Carol Masser, 1:02:08.440 --> 1:02:10.760 and I'm Jason Kelly. Be sure to tune into Bloomberg 1:02:10.760 --> 1:02:13.040 Business Week Radio Live Monday through Friday starting at two 1:02:13.080 --> 1:02:16.280 pm wall ST Time. Can catch the show live, get 1:02:16.280 --> 1:02:19.480 the daily podcast for the ride home wherever you download 1:02:19.520 --> 1:02:21.960 your podcast, and you get this week's edition of the 1:02:22.000 --> 1:02:24.960 magazine on newsstands now. This is Bloomberg