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Speaker 1: Getty show. Well. There have often been discussions about war
Speaker 1: at Kept David. There have been discussions about peace there
Speaker 1: as well. Then some pretty bad actors traveled through that
Speaker 1: place throughout recorded history. What was Mike Pompeo talking about? Well?
Speaker 1: Donald Trump tweeted about it over the weekend. Unbeknowns to
Speaker 1: almost everyone, the major Tally band leaders and separately, the
Speaker 1: president of Afghanistan. We're going to secretly meet with me
Speaker 1: at Camp David on Sunday. They were coming to the
Speaker 1: United States tonight. Unfortunately, in order to build false leverage,
Speaker 1: they admitted to an attack in Kabul that killed one
Speaker 1: of our great soldiers. I immediately canceled the meeting and
Speaker 1: called off peace negotiations. What kind of people would kill
Speaker 1: so many in orders seemingly strengthen their bargaining position. They didn't.
Speaker 1: They only made things worse. I have so many questions,
Speaker 1: And since neither Donald J. Trumper nor Mike Pompeio was available,
Speaker 1: our third choice was the fabulous my clients military analyst
Speaker 1: for CBS News, and Mike that was that's a strange introduction,
Speaker 1: I realized. But when I am president, you will be
Speaker 1: my secretary of Defense. Does that make you feel better?
Speaker 1: That makes me feel great? Perfect. It's great to be
Speaker 1: back on with an excellent excellent, So listen, Uh, why
Speaker 1: don't we get your thoughts overall on hearing about the
Speaker 1: secret negotiations that were aborted? What was your reaction? So so, initially,
Speaker 1: it's classic Donald Trump, okay, in that he wants to
Speaker 1: create a photo op, he wants to create an opportunity.
Speaker 1: He's got the mentality of Jimmy Carter and Arab Fat
Speaker 1: at Camp David, you know, the accords and all that stuff,
Speaker 1: and that's his mentality. And he struck a nerve with
Speaker 1: this not eleven generation of like, how dare we bring
Speaker 1: these terrorists to Camp David? I think that's one thing
Speaker 1: that came out of it. But so he finally gets
Speaker 1: talked out of this, I think by Mike Pompeo who says, look,
Speaker 1: we're not going to get any kind of deal here
Speaker 1: that's going to have any teeth, and in classic transaction
Speaker 1: based Donald Trump mentality form of what i'll call fill
Speaker 1: er kill, is going to fill the requirement. If it
Speaker 1: works or not, he just kills it. He sends a
Speaker 1: tweet out, and all of the work that was done
Speaker 1: in the back, you know, for the past few months,
Speaker 1: is now gone and they have to reset everything. But
Speaker 1: it was the right move. But again, the way he
Speaker 1: conducts foreign policy is just something like we've never seen before. Okay,
Speaker 1: that explains my question because to say we we can't
Speaker 1: negotiate with these people they killed one of our guys,
Speaker 1: while Mike Pompeios on the talk shows saying, listen, we've
Speaker 1: killed a thousand Taliban in the last ten days. So
Speaker 1: that explanation just didn't really make sense to me. Okay,
Speaker 1: I get it, I get and I think I think, um,
Speaker 1: we've been getting indications from the past week's secretary espimate
Speaker 1: a comment about, hey, we're gonna walk away from a
Speaker 1: bad deal. We're we're coming to realize that. You know,
Speaker 1: we were looking for historical analogies, right, and we looked
Speaker 1: at that's in Fain when they were negotiating with the
Speaker 1: British with the IRA. The bottom line is they had
Speaker 1: a very direct connection to the military arm of the
Speaker 1: IRA because the money flowed through the political arm to
Speaker 1: the military arm, and once that stopped, if you can
Speaker 1: negotiate with that political arm, you could get a real
Speaker 1: cease fire. Well, we're discovering that the people were talking
Speaker 1: to at the Taliban have no control over the tribe
Speaker 1: that runs the military arm. They do whatever they want
Speaker 1: to do, and it's you know, the spirit hydra, fifteen
Speaker 1: different heads, whatever you want to call it. The bottom
Speaker 1: line is there's a disconnect there. So we're gonna negotiate
Speaker 1: with somebody that's not capable of enforcing the deal. And
Speaker 1: I think we're starting to realize that now. But from
Speaker 1: the standpoint of just being there. Pompeo is making the
Speaker 1: argument on the shows yesterday, Look, there's all kinds of
Speaker 1: places around the world where we've got problems with terrorists
Speaker 1: that are you know, trying to come up with a
Speaker 1: plan to attack the United States, not just Afghanistan. So
Speaker 1: his point is, I think what he was trying to say,
Speaker 1: why why are we putting so much emphasis on this
Speaker 1: particular little stretch of crappy land. Well, I think because
Speaker 1: the President did make a campaign promise to get us
Speaker 1: out of there. But I think he needs to repivot
Speaker 1: this whole thing. And you've got again the nine eleven
Speaker 1: generation who thinks to fighting an endless war and they
Speaker 1: want out. They want to say that this is enough,
Speaker 1: we just want to leave there. The bottom line is,
Speaker 1: you know what we're doing Afghanistan. It's similar to what
Speaker 1: we did at the end of the Second World WARLD.
Speaker 1: We kept troops in Europe for fifty five years. We've
Speaker 1: have troops in South Korea since the end of that
Speaker 1: conflict as well, and we should not look to actually
Speaker 1: leave Afghanistan. That's the President needs to kind of pivot
Speaker 1: back to the fact that we could keep sevent troops
Speaker 1: in Afghanistan and still get all the things we need
Speaker 1: to accomplished militarily that we did when we kept a
Speaker 1: hunt at the thousand troops there. So this is actually
Speaker 1: a bargain. This is actually a good thing. It's something
Speaker 1: that the military can do. And I think that's what
Speaker 1: Pompeo is trying to shift the attitude too, because Trump
Speaker 1: again going back to the third kill mentality, he knows
Speaker 1: that if he doesn't get the troops out, well, all
Speaker 1: the political enemies of his are going to hit him
Speaker 1: over the head with the fact that he didn't do that.
Speaker 1: And he's now back to where the same troop level
Speaker 1: he wants is what Obama did when he left office
Speaker 1: in two thousands sixteen. Now there are any Nazis attacking
Speaker 1: American soldiers in nineteen sixty twenty years later though, yeah,
Speaker 1: well yeah, And I think that the United States has
Speaker 1: got to take this role of this kind of mission,
Speaker 1: maybe as a leader of NATO, in order to have
Speaker 1: these wars eight time zones from where you Where do
Speaker 1: you want to fight these people? You want to find
Speaker 1: them in the streets in New York City, you want
Speaker 1: to fight them in Kabul? And I think the projection is,
Speaker 1: let's fight to make time zones from here. So, just
Speaker 1: to finish this discussion, if you were advocating that point
Speaker 1: of view or Trump were, should he say something like, listen,
Speaker 1: every one of our guys who dies is a tragedy
Speaker 1: and is injured and it's terrible and we're seeking to
Speaker 1: prevent it, but it's not really more than die in
Speaker 1: a big city police force. Yeah. Yeah, it's exactly the analogy.
Speaker 1: And that's exactly right. And the fact that he should
Speaker 1: say we're winning an Afghanistan because we don't have to
Speaker 1: keep a hundred thousand troops there that we have trained
Speaker 1: troops to the Afghan security forces are getting better every day,
Speaker 1: and maybe we'll get it down to five thousand, but
Speaker 1: the bottom line is based on the strategic weapons we
Speaker 1: can always bring to the table and the amount of
Speaker 1: troops that we have, they're unlike anytime else in warfare.
Speaker 1: I think we had a conversation once about how fifteen
Speaker 1: hundred troops in Syria can control everything that's going on there.
Speaker 1: We used to have to send twenty thousand troops anyplace
Speaker 1: fifty thou in order to get anything done, but nowadays
Speaker 1: we don't have to. We don't have to do that.
Speaker 1: And I think he's got to re educate the population
Speaker 1: about how we do this, and and politically it's not
Speaker 1: going to go well for him because again the Democrats
Speaker 1: are gonna say, oh no, you say we're all coming out,
Speaker 1: you know, peace, love and the grateful dead, and you
Speaker 1: know everything's gonna be great. But but no, this is
Speaker 1: the kind of new way that the military I think
Speaker 1: needs to position these kinds of these kinds of depens
Speaker 1: interesting military analysts. Mike Lions on the line, Mike, have
Speaker 1: you gotten a chance to take a glance at the
Speaker 1: d i as new unclassified report on the Chinese military?
Speaker 1: A little bit? I could tell you that their missile
Speaker 1: program is something that we've got to be real concerned about.
Speaker 1: And the thing is, you know, they're they're not We're
Speaker 1: gonna be swapping ordinance I think soon in the Pacific Ocean.
Speaker 1: I mean, they're gonna they're gonna go after our our carriers,
Speaker 1: and we're gonna have, you know, got a nine eleven decision,
Speaker 1: Because you take out one of those carriers and you
Speaker 1: kill five thousand sailors, you know what's going to be
Speaker 1: our response that they they have looked at nine O eleven,
Speaker 1: and they looked at what happened in Desert Storm, and
Speaker 1: they looked at the fact that the United States can
Speaker 1: bring command and control of literally everything and every tool
Speaker 1: in the toolbox to the battlefield and they're gonna try
Speaker 1: to get out in front of that. And you know,
Speaker 1: I think the Navy is preparing for the Navy, I
Speaker 1: think is going to be leading our country in the
Speaker 1: next twenty to fifty years and projecting power against what's
Speaker 1: going to be at Chinese military that's going to continue
Speaker 1: to try to grow and and expand its capability. So
Speaker 1: do you think is some sort of punch in the
Speaker 1: nose is imminent? Then it sounded like your lane in
Speaker 1: that way, you know imminent is um imminent? Is maybe
Speaker 1: too close? I think that we're getting to the point
Speaker 1: where the amount of ordinance that they have on those
Speaker 1: ay tolls there that you know, that they built up
Speaker 1: as opposed to putting you know, condos on them. Um,
Speaker 1: the missiles that they have there were now getting to
Speaker 1: the point where they could make a mistake and may
Speaker 1: they might not hit a U S cruiser or destroyer,
Speaker 1: they might hit something else, but they're looking to instimidate
Speaker 1: those shipping lanes that are taking place in the South
Speaker 1: China see and um, yeah, I think we're getting to
Speaker 1: the point where you could have you know, Cuban missile
Speaker 1: type of crisis mistake if we don't figure out a
Speaker 1: way to to respond back or open up the dialogue
Speaker 1: with what's what they're doing there? May you live in
Speaker 1: interesting times? Mike clients military analysts for CBS News. Mike,
Speaker 1: always a pleasure. Thank you, great guy. Thanks from me. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so I haven't read it. I've just seen the headlines.
Speaker 1: But what, well, what are the headlines. Well, that China's
Speaker 1: China's military is a near peer of the United States
Speaker 1: in a lot of capabilities. Their missile programs, Mike said,
Speaker 1: is leaping for word. We still own the seas um
Speaker 1: to a large extent. But you know, my my brother's
Speaker 1: active duty in the navy, and and you know, I've
Speaker 1: known many sailors. And if if you blast a ship
Speaker 1: out of the water, many people die. It's unless you're
Speaker 1: you know, firing off warning shots, and it's that posturing
Speaker 1: thing a naval attack. People die. And I'm just I'm
Speaker 1: thinking over what Mike said and how poligerent China has
Speaker 1: been about building these little islands in the South China
Speaker 1: Sea and then arming them and turning them in a
Speaker 1: military basis, and and they're gonna want to flex their
Speaker 1: muscles soon or later. Um. The other thing they said
Speaker 1: is that cyber wise, it's difficult to say who's ahead,
Speaker 1: but both of us are are cyber superpowers, and China
Speaker 1: may well be ad um, but oh they're They're spending
Speaker 1: more on the military than anybody on Earth except the
Speaker 1: United States and are are growing it by leaps and bounds.
Speaker 1: It's a huge priority. So yeah, yeah, although you know,
Speaker 1: if there's one kind of softening note a couple of
Speaker 1: experts I was listening to her pointing out that it's
Speaker 1: very different from the Cold War because we had very
Speaker 1: very little relationship with the Soviet Union. We didn't have
Speaker 1: trillions of dollars in trade and and and billions and
Speaker 1: billions of dollars in tourism and and thousands of students
Speaker 1: going back and forth to each other's countries. That's That's
Speaker 1: not to say that's going to prevent anything ugly from happening,
Speaker 1: but it is different. It's the through Clidean trap. I
Speaker 1: was afraid of that for many, many thousands of years,
Speaker 1: an established power and arising power almost always go to war,
Speaker 1: like nine out of ten times. Eventually. Yeah, I once
Speaker 1: accidentally caught a skunk in my through Clidean trap, and
Speaker 1: I didn't know what to do. Mike Lyons. Saying we
Speaker 1: in China will be swapping ordinance at some point is frightening.
Speaker 1: Will you talk about rattling the markets? Yeah? Yeah, well
Speaker 1: you've seen what's happened in the Persian Gulf, various warning shots.
Speaker 1: And how about Russia buzzing? Our fighters are our our
Speaker 1: our boats? Yeah well let's hope not. But you know,
Speaker 1: world keeps spinning. Are strong and getty. When you're ready
Speaker 1: to ride Metro, we want you to know we're ready
Speaker 1: for you. Here are just a few of the people
Speaker 1: at Metro to tell you how we're doing our part
Speaker 1: to keep riders safe. We're cleaning like noble before. We
Speaker 1: half builded greatly. You've found half sanitizing stations. No mask,
Speaker 1: no Metro need one. We have a few extras at Metro.
Speaker 1: We're doing our part to keep the DC area moving.
Speaker 1: Find out more at wilmata dot com slash doing our
Speaker 1: part