WEBVTT - Unlike Anything We've Ever Seen.  Mike Lyons Talks to Armstrong & Getty

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<v Speaker 1>mata dot com, slash doing our part, the Armstrong and

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<v Speaker 1>Getty show. Well. There have often been discussions about war

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<v Speaker 1>at Kept David. There have been discussions about peace there

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<v Speaker 1>as well. Then some pretty bad actors traveled through that

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<v Speaker 1>place throughout recorded history. What was Mike Pompeo talking about? Well?

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<v Speaker 1>Donald Trump tweeted about it over the weekend. Unbeknowns to

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<v Speaker 1>almost everyone, the major Tally band leaders and separately, the

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<v Speaker 1>president of Afghanistan. We're going to secretly meet with me

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<v Speaker 1>at Camp David on Sunday. They were coming to the

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<v Speaker 1>United States tonight. Unfortunately, in order to build false leverage,

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<v Speaker 1>they admitted to an attack in Kabul that killed one

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<v Speaker 1>of our great soldiers. I immediately canceled the meeting and

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<v Speaker 1>called off peace negotiations. What kind of people would kill

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<v Speaker 1>so many in orders seemingly strengthen their bargaining position. They didn't.

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<v Speaker 1>They only made things worse. I have so many questions,

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<v Speaker 1>And since neither Donald J. Trumper nor Mike Pompeio was available,

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<v Speaker 1>our third choice was the fabulous my clients military analyst

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<v Speaker 1>for CBS News, and Mike that was that's a strange introduction,

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<v Speaker 1>I realized. But when I am president, you will be

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<v Speaker 1>my secretary of Defense. Does that make you feel better?

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<v Speaker 1>That makes me feel great? Perfect. It's great to be

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<v Speaker 1>back on with an excellent excellent, So listen, Uh, why

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<v Speaker 1>don't we get your thoughts overall on hearing about the

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<v Speaker 1>secret negotiations that were aborted? What was your reaction? So so, initially,

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<v Speaker 1>it's classic Donald Trump, okay, in that he wants to

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<v Speaker 1>create a photo op, he wants to create an opportunity.

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<v Speaker 1>He's got the mentality of Jimmy Carter and Arab Fat

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<v Speaker 1>at Camp David, you know, the accords and all that stuff,

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<v Speaker 1>and that's his mentality. And he struck a nerve with

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<v Speaker 1>this not eleven generation of like, how dare we bring

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<v Speaker 1>these terrorists to Camp David? I think that's one thing

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<v Speaker 1>that came out of it. But so he finally gets

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<v Speaker 1>talked out of this, I think by Mike Pompeo who says, look,

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<v Speaker 1>we're not going to get any kind of deal here

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<v Speaker 1>that's going to have any teeth, and in classic transaction

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<v Speaker 1>based Donald Trump mentality form of what i'll call fill

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<v Speaker 1>er kill, is going to fill the requirement. If it

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<v Speaker 1>works or not, he just kills it. He sends a

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<v Speaker 1>tweet out, and all of the work that was done

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<v Speaker 1>in the back, you know, for the past few months,

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<v Speaker 1>is now gone and they have to reset everything. But

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<v Speaker 1>it was the right move. But again, the way he

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<v Speaker 1>conducts foreign policy is just something like we've never seen before. Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>that explains my question because to say we we can't

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<v Speaker 1>negotiate with these people they killed one of our guys,

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<v Speaker 1>while Mike Pompeios on the talk shows saying, listen, we've

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<v Speaker 1>killed a thousand Taliban in the last ten days. So

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<v Speaker 1>that explanation just didn't really make sense to me. Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>I get it, I get and I think I think, um,

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<v Speaker 1>we've been getting indications from the past week's secretary espimate

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<v Speaker 1>a comment about, hey, we're gonna walk away from a

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<v Speaker 1>bad deal. We're we're coming to realize that. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>we were looking for historical analogies, right, and we looked

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<v Speaker 1>at that's in Fain when they were negotiating with the

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<v Speaker 1>British with the IRA. The bottom line is they had

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<v Speaker 1>a very direct connection to the military arm of the

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<v Speaker 1>IRA because the money flowed through the political arm to

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<v Speaker 1>the military arm, and once that stopped, if you can

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<v Speaker 1>negotiate with that political arm, you could get a real

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<v Speaker 1>cease fire. Well, we're discovering that the people were talking

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<v Speaker 1>to at the Taliban have no control over the tribe

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<v Speaker 1>that runs the military arm. They do whatever they want

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<v Speaker 1>to do, and it's you know, the spirit hydra, fifteen

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<v Speaker 1>different heads, whatever you want to call it. The bottom

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<v Speaker 1>line is there's a disconnect there. So we're gonna negotiate

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<v Speaker 1>with somebody that's not capable of enforcing the deal. And

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<v Speaker 1>I think we're starting to realize that now. But from

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<v Speaker 1>the standpoint of just being there. Pompeo is making the

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<v Speaker 1>argument on the shows yesterday, Look, there's all kinds of

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<v Speaker 1>places around the world where we've got problems with terrorists

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<v Speaker 1>that are you know, trying to come up with a

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<v Speaker 1>plan to attack the United States, not just Afghanistan. So

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<v Speaker 1>his point is, I think what he was trying to say,

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<v Speaker 1>why why are we putting so much emphasis on this

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<v Speaker 1>particular little stretch of crappy land. Well, I think because

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<v Speaker 1>the President did make a campaign promise to get us

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<v Speaker 1>out of there. But I think he needs to repivot

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<v Speaker 1>this whole thing. And you've got again the nine eleven

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<v Speaker 1>generation who thinks to fighting an endless war and they

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<v Speaker 1>want out. They want to say that this is enough,

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<v Speaker 1>we just want to leave there. The bottom line is,

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<v Speaker 1>you know what we're doing Afghanistan. It's similar to what

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<v Speaker 1>we did at the end of the Second World WARLD.

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<v Speaker 1>We kept troops in Europe for fifty five years. We've

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<v Speaker 1>have troops in South Korea since the end of that

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<v Speaker 1>conflict as well, and we should not look to actually

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<v Speaker 1>leave Afghanistan. That's the President needs to kind of pivot

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<v Speaker 1>back to the fact that we could keep sevent troops

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<v Speaker 1>in Afghanistan and still get all the things we need

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<v Speaker 1>to accomplished militarily that we did when we kept a

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<v Speaker 1>hunt at the thousand troops there. So this is actually

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<v Speaker 1>a bargain. This is actually a good thing. It's something

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<v Speaker 1>that the military can do. And I think that's what

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<v Speaker 1>Pompeo is trying to shift the attitude too, because Trump

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<v Speaker 1>again going back to the third kill mentality, he knows

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<v Speaker 1>that if he doesn't get the troops out, well, all

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<v Speaker 1>the political enemies of his are going to hit him

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<v Speaker 1>over the head with the fact that he didn't do that.

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<v Speaker 1>And he's now back to where the same troop level

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<v Speaker 1>he wants is what Obama did when he left office

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<v Speaker 1>in two thousands sixteen. Now there are any Nazis attacking

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<v Speaker 1>American soldiers in nineteen sixty twenty years later though, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>well yeah, And I think that the United States has

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<v Speaker 1>got to take this role of this kind of mission,

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<v Speaker 1>maybe as a leader of NATO, in order to have

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<v Speaker 1>these wars eight time zones from where you Where do

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<v Speaker 1>you want to fight these people? You want to find

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<v Speaker 1>them in the streets in New York City, you want

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<v Speaker 1>to fight them in Kabul? And I think the projection is,

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<v Speaker 1>let's fight to make time zones from here. So, just

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<v Speaker 1>to finish this discussion, if you were advocating that point

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<v Speaker 1>of view or Trump were, should he say something like, listen,

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<v Speaker 1>every one of our guys who dies is a tragedy

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<v Speaker 1>and is injured and it's terrible and we're seeking to

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<v Speaker 1>prevent it, but it's not really more than die in

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<v Speaker 1>a big city police force. Yeah. Yeah, it's exactly the analogy.

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<v Speaker 1>And that's exactly right. And the fact that he should

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<v Speaker 1>say we're winning an Afghanistan because we don't have to

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<v Speaker 1>keep a hundred thousand troops there that we have trained

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<v Speaker 1>troops to the Afghan security forces are getting better every day,

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<v Speaker 1>and maybe we'll get it down to five thousand, but

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<v Speaker 1>the bottom line is based on the strategic weapons we

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<v Speaker 1>can always bring to the table and the amount of

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<v Speaker 1>troops that we have, they're unlike anytime else in warfare.

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<v Speaker 1>I think we had a conversation once about how fifteen

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<v Speaker 1>hundred troops in Syria can control everything that's going on there.

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<v Speaker 1>We used to have to send twenty thousand troops anyplace

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<v Speaker 1>fifty thou in order to get anything done, but nowadays

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<v Speaker 1>we don't have to. We don't have to do that.

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<v Speaker 1>And I think he's got to re educate the population

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<v Speaker 1>about how we do this, and and politically it's not

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<v Speaker 1>going to go well for him because again the Democrats

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<v Speaker 1>are gonna say, oh no, you say we're all coming out,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, peace, love and the grateful dead, and you

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<v Speaker 1>know everything's gonna be great. But but no, this is

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<v Speaker 1>the kind of new way that the military I think

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<v Speaker 1>needs to position these kinds of these kinds of depens

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<v Speaker 1>interesting military analysts. Mike Lions on the line, Mike, have

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<v Speaker 1>you gotten a chance to take a glance at the

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<v Speaker 1>d i as new unclassified report on the Chinese military?

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<v Speaker 1>A little bit? I could tell you that their missile

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<v Speaker 1>program is something that we've got to be real concerned about.

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<v Speaker 1>And the thing is, you know, they're they're not We're

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<v Speaker 1>gonna be swapping ordinance I think soon in the Pacific Ocean.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, they're gonna they're gonna go after our our carriers,

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<v Speaker 1>and we're gonna have, you know, got a nine eleven decision,

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<v Speaker 1>Because you take out one of those carriers and you

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<v Speaker 1>kill five thousand sailors, you know what's going to be

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<v Speaker 1>our response that they they have looked at nine O eleven,

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<v Speaker 1>and they looked at what happened in Desert Storm, and

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<v Speaker 1>they looked at the fact that the United States can

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<v Speaker 1>bring command and control of literally everything and every tool

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<v Speaker 1>in the toolbox to the battlefield and they're gonna try

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<v Speaker 1>to get out in front of that. And you know,

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<v Speaker 1>I think the Navy is preparing for the Navy, I

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<v Speaker 1>think is going to be leading our country in the

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<v Speaker 1>next twenty to fifty years and projecting power against what's

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<v Speaker 1>going to be at Chinese military that's going to continue

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<v Speaker 1>to try to grow and and expand its capability. So

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<v Speaker 1>do you think is some sort of punch in the

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<v Speaker 1>nose is imminent? Then it sounded like your lane in

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<v Speaker 1>that way, you know imminent is um imminent? Is maybe

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<v Speaker 1>too close? I think that we're getting to the point

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<v Speaker 1>where the amount of ordinance that they have on those

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<v Speaker 1>ay tolls there that you know, that they built up

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<v Speaker 1>as opposed to putting you know, condos on them. Um,

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<v Speaker 1>the missiles that they have there were now getting to

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<v Speaker 1>the point where they could make a mistake and may

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<v Speaker 1>they might not hit a U S cruiser or destroyer,

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<v Speaker 1>they might hit something else, but they're looking to instimidate

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<v Speaker 1>those shipping lanes that are taking place in the South

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<v Speaker 1>China see and um, yeah, I think we're getting to

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<v Speaker 1>the point where you could have you know, Cuban missile

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<v Speaker 1>type of crisis mistake if we don't figure out a

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<v Speaker 1>way to to respond back or open up the dialogue

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<v Speaker 1>with what's what they're doing there? May you live in

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<v Speaker 1>interesting times? Mike clients military analysts for CBS News. Mike,

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<v Speaker 1>always a pleasure. Thank you, great guy. Thanks from me. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>so I haven't read it. I've just seen the headlines.

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<v Speaker 1>But what, well, what are the headlines. Well, that China's

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<v Speaker 1>China's military is a near peer of the United States

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<v Speaker 1>in a lot of capabilities. Their missile programs, Mike said,

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<v Speaker 1>is leaping for word. We still own the seas um

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<v Speaker 1>to a large extent. But you know, my my brother's

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<v Speaker 1>active duty in the navy, and and you know, I've

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<v Speaker 1>known many sailors. And if if you blast a ship

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<v Speaker 1>out of the water, many people die. It's unless you're

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<v Speaker 1>you know, firing off warning shots, and it's that posturing

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<v Speaker 1>thing a naval attack. People die. And I'm just I'm

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<v Speaker 1>thinking over what Mike said and how poligerent China has

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<v Speaker 1>been about building these little islands in the South China

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<v Speaker 1>Sea and then arming them and turning them in a

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<v Speaker 1>military basis, and and they're gonna want to flex their

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<v Speaker 1>muscles soon or later. Um. The other thing they said

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<v Speaker 1>is that cyber wise, it's difficult to say who's ahead,

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<v Speaker 1>but both of us are are cyber superpowers, and China

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<v Speaker 1>may well be ad um, but oh they're They're spending

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<v Speaker 1>more on the military than anybody on Earth except the

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<v Speaker 1>United States and are are growing it by leaps and bounds.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a huge priority. So yeah, yeah, although you know,

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<v Speaker 1>if there's one kind of softening note a couple of

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<v Speaker 1>experts I was listening to her pointing out that it's

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<v Speaker 1>very different from the Cold War because we had very

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<v Speaker 1>very little relationship with the Soviet Union. We didn't have

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<v Speaker 1>trillions of dollars in trade and and and billions and

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<v Speaker 1>billions of dollars in tourism and and thousands of students

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<v Speaker 1>going back and forth to each other's countries. That's That's

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<v Speaker 1>not to say that's going to prevent anything ugly from happening,

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<v Speaker 1>but it is different. It's the through Clidean trap. I

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<v Speaker 1>was afraid of that for many, many thousands of years,

0:10:35.920 --> 0:10:39.880
<v Speaker 1>an established power and arising power almost always go to war,

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<v Speaker 1>like nine out of ten times. Eventually. Yeah, I once

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<v Speaker 1>accidentally caught a skunk in my through Clidean trap, and

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<v Speaker 1>I didn't know what to do. Mike Lyons. Saying we

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<v Speaker 1>in China will be swapping ordinance at some point is frightening.

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<v Speaker 1>Will you talk about rattling the markets? Yeah? Yeah, well

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<v Speaker 1>you've seen what's happened in the Persian Gulf, various warning shots.

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<v Speaker 1>And how about Russia buzzing? Our fighters are our our

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<v Speaker 1>our boats? Yeah well let's hope not. But you know,

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<v Speaker 1>world keeps spinning. Are strong and getty. When you're ready

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<v Speaker 1>to ride Metro, we want you to know we're ready

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<v Speaker 1>for you. Here are just a few of the people

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<v Speaker 1>at Metro to tell you how we're doing our part

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<v Speaker 1>to keep riders safe. We're cleaning like noble before. We

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<v Speaker 1>half builded greatly. You've found half sanitizing stations. No mask,

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<v Speaker 1>no Metro need one. We have a few extras at Metro.

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<v Speaker 1>We're doing our part to keep the DC area moving.

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<v Speaker 1>Find out more at wilmata dot com slash doing our

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<v Speaker 1>part