Speaker 1: Pushkin. Hi, I'm Phil Donahue and I'm Marlow Thomas, and
Speaker 1: we're going on a series of double dates to find
Speaker 1: out what makes a marriage last. It's hard to think
Speaker 1: of a couple who we've taken to our hearts more
Speaker 1: than actors Michael J. Fox and Tracy Pollen. They learned
Speaker 1: early on what most of us take a lot longer
Speaker 1: to realize that marriage is a day to day journey
Speaker 1: of love and grid. They lived just walking distance from us,
Speaker 1: so it was really disappointing that I still had the
Speaker 1: flu on the date we were scheduled to visit them.
Speaker 1: Marlow had to go at solo and they really miss
Speaker 1: seeing you. It's funny with a small world this is.
Speaker 1: It turns out that many years ago Michael and Tracy
Speaker 1: had rented the very same apartment that we had once rented,
Speaker 1: and now here we are all living on the same street.
Speaker 1: You know, on a good day, you could probably hit
Speaker 1: a golf ball onto their balcony. Well, actually that would
Speaker 1: take an iron. But beyond our neighborhood, we share a
Speaker 1: lot in common. I started by asking them about their
Speaker 1: dating before they met. I know, you dated a lot
Speaker 1: of interesting people, and you dated a lot I've reading
Speaker 1: about you. You had a lot of handsome, beautiful people
Speaker 1: in your lives, but you you clicked and so how
Speaker 1: did you know this was the right person? Well, it's
Speaker 1: interesting you say that. You know, when you're younger, you
Speaker 1: go out with a lot of people, but you kind
Speaker 1: of know instantly this isn't the right person. And so
Speaker 1: you're thinking in the back of your mind, you're thinking,
Speaker 1: this is fine. How do I get out of it? Right?
Speaker 1: And and then you meet somewhere in New y this
Speaker 1: is it's fun. I don't want to ever get out
Speaker 1: of this. And then there's a leap of faith at
Speaker 1: that point, also because you're so young. When I first
Speaker 1: met a shoe she sted actress from New York, and
Speaker 1: I was just like, like Prince of Hollywood, idiot, you
Speaker 1: clown and then um and and there's just such a
Speaker 1: dignity about her in a consideration of what was when
Speaker 1: I didn't consider anything, I mean, I just kind of
Speaker 1: jumped into situations and took over and I just started, Wow,
Speaker 1: it's poise. That's what she has poise. When you walked
Speaker 1: down the aisle, you were pretty sure that this was
Speaker 1: the right one. Was there anything one a little thing
Speaker 1: that you weren't quite sure about that you had to
Speaker 1: like figure out right. I do know that I was,
Speaker 1: you know, I had been in so many Broadway shows
Speaker 1: and done so many things like that, and I'd never
Speaker 1: had as much stage right as I had. Right before
Speaker 1: I walked down the aisle, I thought I was gonna
Speaker 1: pass out. I was so so nervous, and I just
Speaker 1: realized all of a sudden, this is a really big deal.
Speaker 1: You know, Oh my god, am I ready for this?
Speaker 1: I just think that general feeling of like what have
Speaker 1: I gotten myself into? And then I started to walk
Speaker 1: and it all fell away. And how old were you then?
Speaker 1: U twenty seven? And you feel so old at the
Speaker 1: time when you're at twenty, you know, when you're in
Speaker 1: your twenties. But now I look back at my kids
Speaker 1: and I go, oh, we were baby, just little toddlers.
Speaker 1: Your image is somewhat like mine, which is, you know,
Speaker 1: you're on top of it, and you're fun and you
Speaker 1: go you go out with Michael or Marlowe, You're gonna
Speaker 1: have a good time. They're just all you know. At
Speaker 1: some point you had to show this woman that you
Speaker 1: were taking into your life, that you weren't that way
Speaker 1: all the time. You know that you had to like
Speaker 1: let it out and say this is also who I am.
Speaker 1: Oh and that has nothing to do with your health.
Speaker 1: That has to do with you as a personality. So yeah,
Speaker 1: why I The thing with the health is poor things
Speaker 1: happen in really short amount of time, uh basing I
Speaker 1: married or someone was born, my father passed away, and
Speaker 1: and I diagnosed, and then and then and they drinking.
Speaker 1: So it's like five things. It's like the major who
Speaker 1: likes the huge massive changes and became became a different person,
Speaker 1: And it was a person had to become just to
Speaker 1: survive me and be successful going on in life. And
Speaker 1: and and it's great, it's great that I made those changes. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I needed to own my diagnosis, own what that meant
Speaker 1: to him from my family, and be prepared to do
Speaker 1: I needed to do that, make that okay. And and
Speaker 1: Tracy met me and and and helped me own way
Speaker 1: and got me through over the hurdles and um, so
Speaker 1: it was it was a big tea. I mean, it's
Speaker 1: a big test earlier on our marriage. Its bad. What
Speaker 1: adjustment did you make to to have another person in
Speaker 1: your life? Well, one thing that we did that. I
Speaker 1: don't think we wouldn't do anything different in our lives.
Speaker 1: I mean, I can't speak for you, but I would
Speaker 1: I wouldn't do any different in our lives. Other lives fantastically.
Speaker 1: But we had we had our son was born really
Speaker 1: early in our marriage. So we had a quick adjustment
Speaker 1: that we got married and then we were parents. So
Speaker 1: so that that accommodation I extended that there was this
Speaker 1: other persons and then so we were we were we
Speaker 1: were never really traditional New lu ads. We were parents
Speaker 1: within the first year of our marriage, right, So it
Speaker 1: was so it was a different kind of adjustment. It's
Speaker 1: a different kind of Um, you didn't have a girlfriend anymore.
Speaker 1: Now you have, yeah, a co parent. Also, when we
Speaker 1: first got married, um, Michael's life was like very large,
Speaker 1: and so I had to sort of find my place
Speaker 1: where there was so much space being taken up by
Speaker 1: not by him personally, because he's not like that personally,
Speaker 1: but he just had a lot going on. There were
Speaker 1: there was job after job after job, and we to
Speaker 1: walk down the street and I would call him mister
Speaker 1: Mayor because everybody would say hello, and I am Ike
Speaker 1: hy kind Mike. He just had this kind of persona
Speaker 1: that everybody wanted to talk to him or be with him.
Speaker 1: And so for me, it was sort of trying to
Speaker 1: figure out how to accommodate room for that big life
Speaker 1: but also maintain my own independence and what I did
Speaker 1: and um, and so that was sort of an adjustment.
Speaker 1: I would say, you're really great because because at the
Speaker 1: same time as you were finding that space and in
Speaker 1: my life, you found a new space for me. Like
Speaker 1: I didn't realize how how overwhelmed, how much input there was,
Speaker 1: and how much sensory overload I was dealing with until
Speaker 1: Tracy said to me, and it was one of the
Speaker 1: things that they had sealed the deal for me in
Speaker 1: terms of her being the person that I wanted to
Speaker 1: be with forever. She just said, until my orders just
Speaker 1: going to kill you. This is going to kill you.
Speaker 1: You don't have any room for yourself in your life.
Speaker 1: You don't have any room for relationships that are real,
Speaker 1: that are based on something other be in business. And
Speaker 1: I was just like, wow, that's right. And I started,
Speaker 1: all of a sudden started to crave privacy and crave
Speaker 1: moments to be alone, and crave places to go where
Speaker 1: no one would be there to greet us or give
Speaker 1: a special attention or sometimes actually that's a funny thing
Speaker 1: where you're talking about that. Michaelan so many people working
Speaker 1: for him and you know and yes man and agents
Speaker 1: and assistance, and so we would argue and he would
Speaker 1: say nobody else in my life says that to me.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, yeah, because you pay all of them,
Speaker 1: so of course I'm going to get fired. I'm the
Speaker 1: only person that is great it isn't worried about being fired.
Speaker 1: So that was right, Yeah, that's right. And um, what
Speaker 1: do you think that you get from each other that
Speaker 1: you can't get from anybody else? Like with me with
Speaker 1: Phil when I'm blue and I'm a pretty optimistic person,
Speaker 1: but when I'm blue, he's the only person that can
Speaker 1: do a reality check with me that I believe, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean, he pulls me up much my cheerleader.
Speaker 1: Is that for me too, because I get because I
Speaker 1: have the same thing I have this I'm supposed to
Speaker 1: be mister sunshine and mister optimism and times when you
Speaker 1: really you know, some stuff is just hard to deal with,
Speaker 1: whether it's health issues or over things. And and Tracey
Speaker 1: has always got the thing to say that it makes
Speaker 1: me looking in another way. And I can and I
Speaker 1: can take things and make them right size. That's a
Speaker 1: great thing to say. And what about you. I can
Speaker 1: get very involved in the personal relationships, you know, between
Speaker 1: friends or family members or and and I can really
Speaker 1: sort of get a little too um affected by that
Speaker 1: by arguments that I've had with someone or someone said
Speaker 1: saying to me. And the only person I ever want
Speaker 1: to talk to when I'm in a state like that
Speaker 1: or upset about something is Michael because he has so
Speaker 1: much perspective. The funniest thing to say, I've said to
Speaker 1: chasing him before is when you say, if they only knew,
Speaker 1: like you having a conflict with somebody, and you'd say
Speaker 1: if they only knew what, And I'd say, if Emily knew,
Speaker 1: they still wouldn't give a shit. That's true. Sometimes I'll
Speaker 1: get so kind of wrapped up in that that thinking,
Speaker 1: and I'll just say, you know what I'm gonna do.
Speaker 1: I'm going to call that person and I'm going to
Speaker 1: say this, this and that. And Michael always says, to
Speaker 1: what end? What do you want to gain from that?
Speaker 1: She's much better than I am. I mean, I say
Speaker 1: to what end? Because because I don't know how to
Speaker 1: have those conversations, Wene, but you really should have done that,
Speaker 1: and I should have done that. It's just like, let's
Speaker 1: just start over. Well, so how do you resolve problems?
Speaker 1: Then there's always a period of time. I have a
Speaker 1: tendency to want to come I can make it all okay.
Speaker 1: I've grown more likely to we have it to stream
Speaker 1: about something, to give it to a So when you
Speaker 1: say give it some air, you mean don't get into
Speaker 1: a confrontation about it. Don't do what I want to
Speaker 1: do it just keep coming in the room in five
Speaker 1: seconds and saying, oh, okay now. And I also find
Speaker 1: I see a lot of times the people that I
Speaker 1: know that have these such a constant. I think that
Speaker 1: we used to do it more kind of at the
Speaker 1: beginning of our relationship. But this idea that you have
Speaker 1: to hash through and discuss every single thing is really
Speaker 1: no great benefit because sometimes you just have to assume,
Speaker 1: you know what he said something schmucky made me feel bad.
Speaker 1: But he's a good person. I'm going to give him
Speaker 1: the benefit of the doubt that he didn't realize what
Speaker 1: he said hurt my feelings, and I think he does
Speaker 1: the same with me. So this whole thing like that
Speaker 1: I see my friends sometimes having to do is let's
Speaker 1: sit down and talk this through. Let's and then it's
Speaker 1: like they're up till three in the morning because they
Speaker 1: can't go to sleep until they figured it out. And
Speaker 1: we're just kind of look at each other. We go,
Speaker 1: that's fine, I know you didn't mean it. You know
Speaker 1: I didn't read it. Let's move on. So how long
Speaker 1: did it take you to get to that, because it's
Speaker 1: taken us about twenty years of our forty year marriage
Speaker 1: to be able to say, so, you're so halfway through, Yeah,
Speaker 1: got to it. So what about you guys? It was
Speaker 1: that a skill you had right away or that something
Speaker 1: definitely not a skill we had right away. But I
Speaker 1: think we actually learned it a lot from seeing other
Speaker 1: relationships kind of fall by the wayside, and I would
Speaker 1: just see that it just wasn't a healthy way of
Speaker 1: dealing with it, like celebrate the positive. You don't have
Speaker 1: to dwell on all of the negative things that ye
Speaker 1: when but kids just place it's a hugeal We perfect kids.
Speaker 1: They're so non judgmental and none demanding, and they just
Speaker 1: they just they're just enjoying life and we kind of
Speaker 1: look at them and say, what a great life. I mean,
Speaker 1: what can be wrong with It's beautiful what we've done.
Speaker 1: So it sounds to be like gratitude is something. The
Speaker 1: gratitude's huge gratitude is a great space for me to
Speaker 1: be in because because I I deal with this healthing
Speaker 1: and and what what keeps me balanced? His gratitude. It's
Speaker 1: like being in a place of acceptance. It's just like,
Speaker 1: if you accept something doesn't mean you're resigned to it.
Speaker 1: It just means you accepted in and you look at
Speaker 1: it and you're honest about it. And I think acceptance
Speaker 1: is so much a part of my life, and it's
Speaker 1: a part of marriage. And you had a lot of
Speaker 1: accepting to do when Michael got sick, right, I mean
Speaker 1: that was very very early in our marriage, and um, yeah,
Speaker 1: I didn't we didn't even think it was going to
Speaker 1: be I didn't go to the doctor because we didn't
Speaker 1: think it was going to be anything big. And the
Speaker 1: thing that was odd about that diagnosis was that when
Speaker 1: you get that diagnosis at such a young age, and
Speaker 1: he was like, had very very few symptoms, so you
Speaker 1: kind of have this big piece of news and then
Speaker 1: nothing really has changed. At that moment. In the day
Speaker 1: to day, you're sort of being told, now, everything's going
Speaker 1: to be the same, but come ten years, it's going
Speaker 1: to be. So it's it's a funny thing to, um
Speaker 1: to grapple with, especially as a young person and as
Speaker 1: a young married couple, because I and um, yeah, so
Speaker 1: and we had you know, we just had a very
Speaker 1: young child and um. So it was definitely something to
Speaker 1: process and something to to deal with. But at the
Speaker 1: same time, once we kind of dealt with, you know,
Speaker 1: that big kind of realization, our life stayed the same.
Speaker 1: It wasn't like all of a sudden he was, you know,
Speaker 1: not able to walk, or all of a sudden he
Speaker 1: wasn't able to participate in the same way that he'd
Speaker 1: been participating. So it was more kind of an idea
Speaker 1: on the head than it was an actual reality. Would
Speaker 1: you agree with that? Yeah, I mean I remember the
Speaker 1: moment that I told you that was I went to
Speaker 1: I had a goofy in dream like that said I
Speaker 1: had a muscle pole or something, and I just didn't
Speaker 1: think about I had it for a year and I
Speaker 1: didn't think about it that much. Uh, And and so
Speaker 1: I went to this neurologist and just to just to
Speaker 1: check it out because I'd been going to sort physical
Speaker 1: therapist sports therapist guy. And so that's why Tricy didn't
Speaker 1: go to the doctors with me, because I just went
Speaker 1: to It was like the saying a small issue as
Speaker 1: far as I was concerned, and then um, and then
Speaker 1: he gave me his diagnosis. So I came home, as
Speaker 1: I told her, and and and we just held each
Speaker 1: other and just just kind of like but like Trisy said,
Speaker 1: it was a strange thing because it was like a
Speaker 1: bus is coming. It's gonna hitt you one day. We
Speaker 1: don't know win right, but it's gonna comes gonna hit you.
Speaker 1: And and I was like, what do I do? Do
Speaker 1: I go to bed? I mean, do I do it?
Speaker 1: Like you? An ask her? And I mean that's nothing
Speaker 1: that changes, but you feel you brought a weight into
Speaker 1: the marriage. Like like my point of view was I
Speaker 1: brought this this thing, like like not not not that
Speaker 1: I didn't intentionally or whatever, but but but I feel
Speaker 1: responsibility for it. I feel like my elephant that I
Speaker 1: brought to the party and it was invited, and so
Speaker 1: how we accommodated it. We'll have more after a quick break.
Speaker 1: We're back tomorrow's conversation with Michael J. Fox and Tracy Pollen.
Speaker 1: When we left off, Michael had just told Tracy about
Speaker 1: his life changing diagnosis of Parkinson's. Did you ever worry
Speaker 1: that she might bail out on you? I worried that
Speaker 1: I might become bailable, that I might not do with
Speaker 1: it well, and and and and why I didn't. They
Speaker 1: didn't deal with it really well successfully. I didn't have
Speaker 1: a good approach to it. I mean I just kind
Speaker 1: of ignored it. And then I over medicated and wrongly medicated,
Speaker 1: and started drinking a little bit more than I had been,
Speaker 1: and and and and that'll last time about a year,
Speaker 1: year and a half. And then I started taking it serious. Man.
Speaker 1: But all that Tracy had had to deal with, and
Speaker 1: so I wasn't worried about her bailing on me. It
Speaker 1: was everybody me, like, this is my this is my thing.
Speaker 1: I have to I have to I haven't. I have
Speaker 1: to make this work within the marriage and within the family.
Speaker 1: I have to I find a way to to to
Speaker 1: not use something that separates me from my family, but
Speaker 1: something that connects me with my family. What about you, Tracy,
Speaker 1: did you ever have in the back of your mind,
Speaker 1: oh my god, I can't do this in terms of
Speaker 1: in the big picture. Definitely moments where it's just like
Speaker 1: I can't handle this. I can't, But I never thought
Speaker 1: I can't handle this today, So I'm out for good.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's just not how I live my life.
Speaker 1: It's not how I was raised. It's not you know,
Speaker 1: you love somebody, you deal with whatever it is they're
Speaker 1: dealing with, and their issues become your issues, and so
Speaker 1: you know, definitely there are struggles, but then they're also
Speaker 1: benefits and positive things that you know, so you just
Speaker 1: sort of have to take it all. You take the
Speaker 1: good with the bad. And so I never ever thought
Speaker 1: in the long run, I can't deal with In the
Speaker 1: days that you didn't think you could handle it, well,
Speaker 1: what did you do for yourself to get through that?
Speaker 1: You know, family for me is super important having just
Speaker 1: for everything like that in my life. Having I'm a
Speaker 1: very very independent person, and I need my time alone,
Speaker 1: and I need to exercise, and I need to spend
Speaker 1: time with my friends, and so I feel like as
Speaker 1: long as I'm able to carve out time for myself,
Speaker 1: especially when things feel overwhelming, and then I'm able to
Speaker 1: sort of regenerate a little bit and come back into
Speaker 1: a situation feeling stronger and more whole. My husband, one
Speaker 1: of my husbands, has five children, and one of his
Speaker 1: sons was doing dangerous things after one year of our marriage,
Speaker 1: and of course I did what you did. I just
Speaker 1: dug right in and did everything. And years later Phil
Speaker 1: said to me, boy said, you know, I thought you'd
Speaker 1: bail on me on that. I said, you did. No. No,
Speaker 1: I accepted it, you know, but there is that feeling
Speaker 1: that the other one might have. I was scared. I
Speaker 1: was scared to death because I never knew anything like that,
Speaker 1: and I would have awful dreams. Did you ever have
Speaker 1: terrible dreams? Or was that two personal? It's it's not
Speaker 1: that I can specifically remember, but I do feel like
Speaker 1: in terms of when you're dealing with something as a couple,
Speaker 1: either you're dealing with the death of a parent, or
Speaker 1: you're dealing with an illness, you're dealing with an issue
Speaker 1: with your kids, and those things that seem so insurmountable
Speaker 1: and difficult, once you've kind of gone through them together
Speaker 1: and gotten to the other end of it, it just
Speaker 1: makes you stronger. It makes your marriage, stronger the relationship,
Speaker 1: and you realize, okay, we handled that, we can handle
Speaker 1: the next thing. And you know, it just sort of
Speaker 1: gives you fortitude together as like a united and a
Speaker 1: path a path through. Right. Yeah, are there things you
Speaker 1: do physically to help? Michael? It's tough once you're transition.
Speaker 1: I'm I can't walk as well as dude. So I
Speaker 1: used to usually with my dog and walk through the
Speaker 1: park and go over to the Museum Natural History and
Speaker 1: going to the dog park there and walk back through
Speaker 1: the park and all of stuff. I can't do that anymore.
Speaker 1: I may be able to day in the future, I hope,
Speaker 1: but I can't right now. It's on the same way
Speaker 1: we used to go do stuff. So so uh now
Speaker 1: we're finding ways to to Like we learn a safari
Speaker 1: and I could be in the jeep a lot of
Speaker 1: the time, and that it's an allowance. It's change. Are
Speaker 1: you going on a safari? We did? We did? Yeah?
Speaker 1: We did less and and how did you do? Was
Speaker 1: it great? And the hont want? I don't want to go.
Speaker 1: At one point I just said, I don't know what
Speaker 1: this does for me because I can't do this stuff,
Speaker 1: and she said, send the jeep and look at the Melvans.
Speaker 1: I mean, have a good time. And he said, if
Speaker 1: one of it is animals start coming for us, I'm
Speaker 1: the one. Yeah, I didn't know. I haven't wonder that.
Speaker 1: I remember one by the watering home. It's sick, lamb
Speaker 1: and old. So I mean, Tracy has always encouraged me
Speaker 1: to get involved into and to not project, not to
Speaker 1: project where where I might be, you know. So I
Speaker 1: tend to take things on because if I'll just meet
Speaker 1: the day right and and and Tracy gives me that
Speaker 1: encouragement to just meet the day just when when we
Speaker 1: get there, and we'll deal with it. I think that's where.
Speaker 1: Did you enjoy it? Loved it? Yeah? It was amazing, fantastic.
Speaker 1: What would you pass on that you've learned as a couple.
Speaker 1: I would say, I guess three things. I'd say Number one,
Speaker 1: give each other the benefit of the doubt, not that
Speaker 1: this is the person you love and this person loves you,
Speaker 1: so just assume the best from them. Don't assume the worst, um,
Speaker 1: because it's easy to get sort of sucked into that.
Speaker 1: And I would say, make sure you carve out time
Speaker 1: to spend together even when you have your kids, and
Speaker 1: you know, to do to have your date nights and
Speaker 1: to have just that time together is so important. And
Speaker 1: at the same time, carve out time to have by
Speaker 1: yourself and um, because the time that you have by
Speaker 1: yourself informs the time that you have together. I think,
Speaker 1: I think you're not You're not trying to create a
Speaker 1: new situation for you, like a new like a new
Speaker 1: thing for you, Like this is a thing for both
Speaker 1: of you and and and it's gonna be a new thing.
Speaker 1: It's gonna be a different thing. It's gonna be You're
Speaker 1: not gonna your shocks may not end up in the
Speaker 1: same place where you used to put them. Or it's
Speaker 1: becoming a new thing. It's becoming a new phenomenon. And
Speaker 1: I enjoyed that, like I love that. I love it.
Speaker 1: It was a new world. Are you comfortable and have
Speaker 1: you always been comfortable with bringing up hard topics? You know?
Speaker 1: For me, it took me a while because I'm so
Speaker 1: independent and because I liked my image of being all powerful.
Speaker 1: It was very hard for me to start really bringing
Speaker 1: up things that hurt me and that it were hard
Speaker 1: for me, and it took a while. I had to
Speaker 1: trust Phil enough to be that vulnerable. Every time I
Speaker 1: have one thing that like because I again, I go
Speaker 1: along and get along, I have a good time. I
Speaker 1: would just do everymore. I'm happy for the ride. And
Speaker 1: people saying, you know, you have all these issues, and
Speaker 1: I said, and then there's worst issues. I mean, there's
Speaker 1: says that people would have pancreatic cancer. Yeah, they lost
Speaker 1: our kids are like, I mean, just the stuff that's
Speaker 1: horrible in this world. And and I'm doing okay, but
Speaker 1: everyone's while I hit a wall and I hit a
Speaker 1: place where I just was just I just need somebody
Speaker 1: getting underneath me and get me up over that wall.
Speaker 1: And and then she's always that person. She's always that person.
Speaker 1: It's it's every time, I mean, do you tell her though, yeah,
Speaker 1: you confide it, or she just noticed I'll say, I'll say,
Speaker 1: I'm just, I'm just I haven't got it to that.
Speaker 1: I'm just I feel I feel like I don't actually
Speaker 1: I get beyond this. And then then she'll say, you
Speaker 1: will mean just just today to say you feel this moment,
Speaker 1: but but you'll feel different tomorrow. And then it'll be
Speaker 1: a different set of facts, and new things will show
Speaker 1: up and and and and it'll change and then and
Speaker 1: it does. But but but but I never, I never,
Speaker 1: I never has state to do that. We don't look
Speaker 1: for trouble. We don't, we don't pick scabs. We don't
Speaker 1: we don't like go. I think some marriages, people will
Speaker 1: get your partner and say it's it's a vulnerability and
Speaker 1: they just can't help but go after that vulnerability and
Speaker 1: it just export or something. We don't do that. I
Speaker 1: think I'm similar to you and that it took a
Speaker 1: while for me to feel comfortable talking about sort of
Speaker 1: bigger issues. But what's what's interesting about it is that
Speaker 1: it's easier. It's easy for me to hear that to
Speaker 1: to you know, if Michael's coming to me with things
Speaker 1: that are difficult for him to share. And that's what
Speaker 1: kind of gives me the confidence and the assurance that
Speaker 1: it's okay to share as well as it is to receive.
Speaker 1: So if you had to say what's made it made
Speaker 1: your marriage last, I would say, just keep your sense
Speaker 1: of humor. It's everything. To keep each other laughing and
Speaker 1: laugh at each other's jokes. It's the key. Yeah. So, so,
Speaker 1: like like um, I was working at a book out
Speaker 1: because I was working out it was about optimism. And
Speaker 1: one day I really bothered I missed deadline after deadline,
Speaker 1: after the deadline, I was just we're bogged down. And
Speaker 1: Tracy said, what's the matter. And I said, I remember
Speaker 1: being finished just fucking booking an optimism and and she said,
Speaker 1: you know you just said I said, you're kidding me, right,
Speaker 1: It's fine, yeah, because he said, I'm never going to
Speaker 1: finish my book about optimism, not with that at after
Speaker 1: thirty years. This is hopefully this is your best friend
Speaker 1: in the world. And and and just like the first
Speaker 1: person I think I wanted to think of anything, my
Speaker 1: first most Tracy. I think, what would Tracy said, what
Speaker 1: would Oh Tracy, if you're into this, Uh, it's it's nice.
Speaker 1: MAT's Michael J. Fox and Tracy Pollam. I'm sorry I
Speaker 1: wasn't there. After I left and began to walk home,
Speaker 1: it took me by surprise that I started to cry.
Speaker 1: What I had been witnessed to was the grace of
Speaker 1: two people whose lives are braided together with love, commitment,
Speaker 1: and steel. It filled my heart. This is marriage. This
Speaker 1: is marriage. And after our many double dates only some
Speaker 1: of which we've shared this season, our biggest lesson turned
Speaker 1: out to be this. There is no one secret to
Speaker 1: a lasting marriage. No, there are a million secrets. So
Speaker 1: keep listening for them, and we'll be listening to I'm
Speaker 1: Filled Donahue and I'm Marlowe Thomas. Stay tuned for news
Speaker 1: about the second season of Double Date. Until then, you
Speaker 1: may hear preview of other Pushkin shows in this feed. Enjoy,
Speaker 1: and meanwhile, treat yourself to your own double date with
Speaker 1: other couples in your life. You'll be surprised how much
Speaker 1: you can learn. Wisher did. Double Date is a production
Speaker 1: of Pushkin Industries. The show was created by US and
Speaker 1: produced by Sarah Lilly. Michael Bahari is associate producer. Musical
Speaker 1: adaptations of It Had to Be You by Stellwagon, Simfinette,
Speaker 1: Marlo and I are executive producers, along with Mia Lobell
Speaker 1: and Letal Molad from Pushkin. Special thanks to Jacob Weisberg,
Speaker 1: Malcolm Gladwell, Heather Faine, John Snars, Carly Migliori, Eric Sandler,
Speaker 1: Emily Rostek, Jason Gambrel, Paul Williams, and Bruce Klucker. If
Speaker 1: you like our show, please remember to share, rate, and review.
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening.