WEBVTT - Michael J. Fox & Tracy Pollan 0:00:14.836 --> 0:00:29.516 Pushkin. Hi, I'm Phil Donahue and I'm Marlow Thomas, and 0:00:29.636 --> 0:00:32.556 we're going on a series of double dates to find 0:00:32.596 --> 0:00:40.476 out what makes a marriage last. It's hard to think 0:00:40.476 --> 0:00:43.236 of a couple who we've taken to our hearts more 0:00:43.276 --> 0:00:47.156 than actors Michael J. Fox and Tracy Pollen. They learned 0:00:47.156 --> 0:00:49.316 early on what most of us take a lot longer 0:00:49.356 --> 0:00:53.156 to realize that marriage is a day to day journey 0:00:53.196 --> 0:00:57.476 of love and grid. They lived just walking distance from us, 0:00:57.756 --> 0:01:00.316 so it was really disappointing that I still had the 0:01:00.356 --> 0:01:03.436 flu on the date we were scheduled to visit them. 0:01:03.436 --> 0:01:06.236 Marlow had to go at solo and they really miss 0:01:06.236 --> 0:01:09.316 seeing you. It's funny with a small world this is. 0:01:09.476 --> 0:01:12.516 It turns out that many years ago Michael and Tracy 0:01:12.556 --> 0:01:15.476 had rented the very same apartment that we had once rented, 0:01:15.876 --> 0:01:18.116 and now here we are all living on the same street. 0:01:18.476 --> 0:01:20.156 You know, on a good day, you could probably hit 0:01:20.156 --> 0:01:22.916 a golf ball onto their balcony. Well, actually that would 0:01:22.956 --> 0:01:26.276 take an iron. But beyond our neighborhood, we share a 0:01:26.276 --> 0:01:29.676 lot in common. I started by asking them about their 0:01:29.796 --> 0:01:32.396 dating before they met. I know, you dated a lot 0:01:32.436 --> 0:01:35.076 of interesting people, and you dated a lot I've reading 0:01:35.116 --> 0:01:37.996 about you. You had a lot of handsome, beautiful people 0:01:38.036 --> 0:01:42.796 in your lives, but you you clicked and so how 0:01:42.796 --> 0:01:44.996 did you know this was the right person? Well, it's 0:01:45.036 --> 0:01:47.596 interesting you say that. You know, when you're younger, you 0:01:48.276 --> 0:01:50.516 go out with a lot of people, but you kind 0:01:50.556 --> 0:01:53.436 of know instantly this isn't the right person. And so 0:01:54.076 --> 0:01:55.996 you're thinking in the back of your mind, you're thinking, 0:01:56.196 --> 0:01:57.996 this is fine. How do I get out of it? Right? 0:01:58.596 --> 0:02:01.236 And and then you meet somewhere in New y this 0:02:01.396 --> 0:02:02.996 is it's fun. I don't want to ever get out 0:02:02.996 --> 0:02:05.436 of this. And then there's a leap of faith at 0:02:05.476 --> 0:02:08.516 that point, also because you're so young. When I first 0:02:08.556 --> 0:02:10.716 met a shoe she sted actress from New York, and 0:02:10.756 --> 0:02:16.396 I was just like, like Prince of Hollywood, idiot, you 0:02:16.996 --> 0:02:19.356 clown and then um and and there's just such a 0:02:19.396 --> 0:02:22.836 dignity about her in a consideration of what was when 0:02:22.876 --> 0:02:24.876 I didn't consider anything, I mean, I just kind of 0:02:24.916 --> 0:02:29.556 jumped into situations and took over and I just started, Wow, 0:02:30.196 --> 0:02:34.876 it's poise. That's what she has poise. When you walked 0:02:34.876 --> 0:02:36.876 down the aisle, you were pretty sure that this was 0:02:36.916 --> 0:02:40.196 the right one. Was there anything one a little thing 0:02:40.196 --> 0:02:41.836 that you weren't quite sure about that you had to 0:02:41.876 --> 0:02:45.036 like figure out right. I do know that I was, 0:02:45.436 --> 0:02:48.676 you know, I had been in so many Broadway shows 0:02:48.756 --> 0:02:52.436 and done so many things like that, and I'd never 0:02:52.636 --> 0:02:55.356 had as much stage right as I had. Right before 0:02:55.396 --> 0:02:57.036 I walked down the aisle, I thought I was gonna 0:02:57.276 --> 0:03:01.916 pass out. I was so so nervous, and I just 0:03:01.996 --> 0:03:04.476 realized all of a sudden, this is a really big deal. 0:03:05.596 --> 0:03:08.076 You know, Oh my god, am I ready for this? 0:03:08.276 --> 0:03:11.436 I just think that general feeling of like what have 0:03:11.556 --> 0:03:14.316 I gotten myself into? And then I started to walk 0:03:14.316 --> 0:03:16.756 and it all fell away. And how old were you then? 0:03:17.476 --> 0:03:20.836 U twenty seven? And you feel so old at the 0:03:20.956 --> 0:03:22.716 time when you're at twenty, you know, when you're in 0:03:22.756 --> 0:03:25.156 your twenties. But now I look back at my kids 0:03:25.156 --> 0:03:29.196 and I go, oh, we were baby, just little toddlers. 0:03:31.156 --> 0:03:35.636 Your image is somewhat like mine, which is, you know, 0:03:35.796 --> 0:03:37.796 you're on top of it, and you're fun and you 0:03:38.316 --> 0:03:40.596 go you go out with Michael or Marlowe, You're gonna 0:03:40.596 --> 0:03:43.916 have a good time. They're just all you know. At 0:03:43.996 --> 0:03:47.396 some point you had to show this woman that you 0:03:47.516 --> 0:03:50.756 were taking into your life, that you weren't that way 0:03:50.796 --> 0:03:52.716 all the time. You know that you had to like 0:03:52.996 --> 0:03:56.916 let it out and say this is also who I am. 0:03:57.556 --> 0:03:59.276 Oh and that has nothing to do with your health. 0:03:59.276 --> 0:04:02.276 That has to do with you as a personality. So yeah, 0:04:02.316 --> 0:04:08.156 why I The thing with the health is poor things 0:04:08.156 --> 0:04:12.556 happen in really short amount of time, uh basing I 0:04:12.596 --> 0:04:15.716 married or someone was born, my father passed away, and 0:04:15.716 --> 0:04:19.396 and I diagnosed, and then and then and they drinking. 0:04:19.476 --> 0:04:21.476 So it's like five things. It's like the major who 0:04:21.516 --> 0:04:26.156 likes the huge massive changes and became became a different person, 0:04:26.676 --> 0:04:28.596 And it was a person had to become just to 0:04:28.956 --> 0:04:31.476 survive me and be successful going on in life. And 0:04:31.476 --> 0:04:34.796 and and it's great, it's great that I made those changes. Yeah, 0:04:34.836 --> 0:04:39.596 I needed to own my diagnosis, own what that meant 0:04:39.596 --> 0:04:42.116 to him from my family, and be prepared to do 0:04:42.196 --> 0:04:45.956 I needed to do that, make that okay. And and 0:04:45.996 --> 0:04:48.516 Tracy met me and and and helped me own way 0:04:48.556 --> 0:04:51.676 and got me through over the hurdles and um, so 0:04:51.716 --> 0:04:53.556 it was it was a big tea. I mean, it's 0:04:53.596 --> 0:04:57.076 a big test earlier on our marriage. Its bad. What 0:04:57.236 --> 0:05:01.716 adjustment did you make to to have another person in 0:05:01.716 --> 0:05:04.996 your life? Well, one thing that we did that. I 0:05:05.276 --> 0:05:07.036 don't think we wouldn't do anything different in our lives. 0:05:07.076 --> 0:05:09.076 I mean, I can't speak for you, but I would 0:05:09.116 --> 0:05:12.156 I wouldn't do any different in our lives. Other lives fantastically. 0:05:12.476 --> 0:05:14.596 But we had we had our son was born really 0:05:14.716 --> 0:05:17.556 early in our marriage. So we had a quick adjustment 0:05:17.636 --> 0:05:21.516 that we got married and then we were parents. So 0:05:21.516 --> 0:05:26.796 so that that accommodation I extended that there was this 0:05:26.956 --> 0:05:30.036 other persons and then so we were we were we 0:05:30.036 --> 0:05:33.516 were never really traditional New lu ads. We were parents 0:05:33.516 --> 0:05:36.116 within the first year of our marriage, right, So it 0:05:36.156 --> 0:05:39.716 was so it was a different kind of adjustment. It's 0:05:39.756 --> 0:05:42.476 a different kind of Um, you didn't have a girlfriend anymore. 0:05:42.516 --> 0:05:45.876 Now you have, yeah, a co parent. Also, when we 0:05:45.916 --> 0:05:50.676 first got married, um, Michael's life was like very large, 0:05:51.076 --> 0:05:54.556 and so I had to sort of find my place 0:05:54.876 --> 0:05:58.916 where there was so much space being taken up by 0:05:59.116 --> 0:06:02.516 not by him personally, because he's not like that personally, 0:06:03.036 --> 0:06:05.436 but he just had a lot going on. There were 0:06:05.596 --> 0:06:09.316 there was job after job after job, and we to 0:06:09.316 --> 0:06:10.916 walk down the street and I would call him mister 0:06:10.996 --> 0:06:14.756 Mayor because everybody would say hello, and I am Ike 0:06:14.876 --> 0:06:17.356 hy kind Mike. He just had this kind of persona 0:06:17.436 --> 0:06:19.636 that everybody wanted to talk to him or be with him. 0:06:19.636 --> 0:06:23.196 And so for me, it was sort of trying to 0:06:23.196 --> 0:06:28.116 figure out how to accommodate room for that big life 0:06:28.276 --> 0:06:34.556 but also maintain my own independence and what I did 0:06:34.756 --> 0:06:39.756 and um, and so that was sort of an adjustment. 0:06:39.796 --> 0:06:42.196 I would say, you're really great because because at the 0:06:42.236 --> 0:06:44.356 same time as you were finding that space and in 0:06:44.516 --> 0:06:48.436 my life, you found a new space for me. Like 0:06:48.556 --> 0:06:53.196 I didn't realize how how overwhelmed, how much input there was, 0:06:53.236 --> 0:06:55.996 and how much sensory overload I was dealing with until 0:06:56.076 --> 0:06:57.756 Tracy said to me, and it was one of the 0:06:57.836 --> 0:07:01.316 things that they had sealed the deal for me in 0:07:01.396 --> 0:07:02.916 terms of her being the person that I wanted to 0:07:02.956 --> 0:07:07.676 be with forever. She just said, until my orders just 0:07:07.836 --> 0:07:09.956 going to kill you. This is going to kill you. 0:07:09.956 --> 0:07:12.356 You don't have any room for yourself in your life. 0:07:12.396 --> 0:07:14.556 You don't have any room for relationships that are real, 0:07:15.156 --> 0:07:17.636 that are based on something other be in business. And 0:07:18.036 --> 0:07:19.836 I was just like, wow, that's right. And I started, 0:07:19.876 --> 0:07:22.116 all of a sudden started to crave privacy and crave 0:07:22.236 --> 0:07:24.476 moments to be alone, and crave places to go where 0:07:24.636 --> 0:07:27.316 no one would be there to greet us or give 0:07:27.356 --> 0:07:30.996 a special attention or sometimes actually that's a funny thing 0:07:31.036 --> 0:07:33.876 where you're talking about that. Michaelan so many people working 0:07:33.996 --> 0:07:38.276 for him and you know and yes man and agents 0:07:38.316 --> 0:07:43.596 and assistance, and so we would argue and he would 0:07:43.636 --> 0:07:46.236 say nobody else in my life says that to me. 0:07:46.356 --> 0:07:48.436 And I'm like, yeah, because you pay all of them, 0:07:48.836 --> 0:07:52.676 so of course I'm going to get fired. I'm the 0:07:52.756 --> 0:07:56.276 only person that is great it isn't worried about being fired. 0:07:56.436 --> 0:08:03.476 So that was right, Yeah, that's right. And um, what 0:08:03.596 --> 0:08:07.796 do you think that you get from each other that 0:08:08.396 --> 0:08:11.796 you can't get from anybody else? Like with me with 0:08:11.996 --> 0:08:16.116 Phil when I'm blue and I'm a pretty optimistic person, 0:08:16.196 --> 0:08:19.316 but when I'm blue, he's the only person that can 0:08:19.396 --> 0:08:22.396 do a reality check with me that I believe, you 0:08:22.476 --> 0:08:26.876 know what I mean, he pulls me up much my cheerleader. 0:08:27.636 --> 0:08:29.636 Is that for me too, because I get because I 0:08:29.716 --> 0:08:31.476 have the same thing I have this I'm supposed to 0:08:31.476 --> 0:08:34.316 be mister sunshine and mister optimism and times when you 0:08:34.516 --> 0:08:36.676 really you know, some stuff is just hard to deal with, 0:08:36.996 --> 0:08:40.276 whether it's health issues or over things. And and Tracey 0:08:40.316 --> 0:08:43.196 has always got the thing to say that it makes 0:08:43.236 --> 0:08:46.836 me looking in another way. And I can and I 0:08:46.876 --> 0:08:50.116 can take things and make them right size. That's a 0:08:50.236 --> 0:08:53.516 great thing to say. And what about you. I can 0:08:53.596 --> 0:08:59.036 get very involved in the personal relationships, you know, between 0:08:59.116 --> 0:09:03.796 friends or family members or and and I can really 0:09:03.956 --> 0:09:10.316 sort of get a little too um affected by that 0:09:10.596 --> 0:09:12.636 by arguments that I've had with someone or someone said 0:09:12.676 --> 0:09:16.196 saying to me. And the only person I ever want 0:09:16.196 --> 0:09:17.836 to talk to when I'm in a state like that 0:09:18.356 --> 0:09:20.716 or upset about something is Michael because he has so 0:09:20.916 --> 0:09:24.436 much perspective. The funniest thing to say, I've said to 0:09:24.516 --> 0:09:26.636 chasing him before is when you say, if they only knew, 0:09:26.756 --> 0:09:28.876 like you having a conflict with somebody, and you'd say 0:09:28.876 --> 0:09:31.596 if they only knew what, And I'd say, if Emily knew, 0:09:31.596 --> 0:09:35.276 they still wouldn't give a shit. That's true. Sometimes I'll 0:09:35.356 --> 0:09:39.036 get so kind of wrapped up in that that thinking, 0:09:39.156 --> 0:09:40.636 and I'll just say, you know what I'm gonna do. 0:09:41.236 --> 0:09:42.956 I'm going to call that person and I'm going to 0:09:42.996 --> 0:09:45.636 say this, this and that. And Michael always says, to 0:09:45.756 --> 0:09:49.036 what end? What do you want to gain from that? 0:09:49.436 --> 0:09:51.676 She's much better than I am. I mean, I say 0:09:51.716 --> 0:09:54.076 to what end? Because because I don't know how to 0:09:54.116 --> 0:09:57.956 have those conversations, Wene, but you really should have done that, 0:09:57.996 --> 0:09:59.676 and I should have done that. It's just like, let's 0:09:59.676 --> 0:10:04.036 just start over. Well, so how do you resolve problems? 0:10:04.556 --> 0:10:07.636 Then there's always a period of time. I have a 0:10:07.716 --> 0:10:10.036 tendency to want to come I can make it all okay. 0:10:10.716 --> 0:10:13.436 I've grown more likely to we have it to stream 0:10:13.476 --> 0:10:15.836 about something, to give it to a So when you 0:10:15.956 --> 0:10:17.796 say give it some air, you mean don't get into 0:10:17.836 --> 0:10:19.796 a confrontation about it. Don't do what I want to 0:10:19.796 --> 0:10:21.356 do it just keep coming in the room in five 0:10:21.396 --> 0:10:24.796 seconds and saying, oh, okay now. And I also find 0:10:24.876 --> 0:10:26.476 I see a lot of times the people that I 0:10:26.636 --> 0:10:31.716 know that have these such a constant. I think that 0:10:31.756 --> 0:10:33.556 we used to do it more kind of at the 0:10:33.636 --> 0:10:35.876 beginning of our relationship. But this idea that you have 0:10:35.956 --> 0:10:40.676 to hash through and discuss every single thing is really 0:10:42.516 --> 0:10:46.156 no great benefit because sometimes you just have to assume, 0:10:46.316 --> 0:10:49.636 you know what he said something schmucky made me feel bad. 0:10:49.716 --> 0:10:51.276 But he's a good person. I'm going to give him 0:10:51.276 --> 0:10:53.516 the benefit of the doubt that he didn't realize what 0:10:53.596 --> 0:10:56.076 he said hurt my feelings, and I think he does 0:10:56.156 --> 0:10:59.236 the same with me. So this whole thing like that 0:10:59.716 --> 0:11:02.276 I see my friends sometimes having to do is let's 0:11:02.276 --> 0:11:05.236 sit down and talk this through. Let's and then it's 0:11:05.276 --> 0:11:07.156 like they're up till three in the morning because they 0:11:07.196 --> 0:11:09.236 can't go to sleep until they figured it out. And 0:11:09.276 --> 0:11:10.596 we're just kind of look at each other. We go, 0:11:11.116 --> 0:11:15.636 that's fine, I know you didn't mean it. You know 0:11:15.756 --> 0:11:17.876 I didn't read it. Let's move on. So how long 0:11:17.956 --> 0:11:19.476 did it take you to get to that, because it's 0:11:19.516 --> 0:11:22.676 taken us about twenty years of our forty year marriage 0:11:22.716 --> 0:11:25.356 to be able to say, so, you're so halfway through, Yeah, 0:11:25.396 --> 0:11:27.556 got to it. So what about you guys? It was 0:11:27.596 --> 0:11:30.396 that a skill you had right away or that something 0:11:30.676 --> 0:11:32.676 definitely not a skill we had right away. But I 0:11:32.756 --> 0:11:35.156 think we actually learned it a lot from seeing other 0:11:35.276 --> 0:11:38.916 relationships kind of fall by the wayside, and I would 0:11:38.956 --> 0:11:42.636 just see that it just wasn't a healthy way of 0:11:43.636 --> 0:11:46.396 dealing with it, like celebrate the positive. You don't have 0:11:46.556 --> 0:11:51.316 to dwell on all of the negative things that ye 0:11:51.556 --> 0:11:57.916 when but kids just place it's a hugeal We perfect kids. 0:11:58.116 --> 0:12:02.076 They're so non judgmental and none demanding, and they just 0:12:02.196 --> 0:12:04.796 they just they're just enjoying life and we kind of 0:12:04.796 --> 0:12:07.476 look at them and say, what a great life. I mean, 0:12:08.036 --> 0:12:11.196 what can be wrong with It's beautiful what we've done. 0:12:11.836 --> 0:12:13.956 So it sounds to be like gratitude is something. The 0:12:14.076 --> 0:12:16.876 gratitude's huge gratitude is a great space for me to 0:12:16.916 --> 0:12:20.836 be in because because I I deal with this healthing 0:12:21.196 --> 0:12:25.996 and and what what keeps me balanced? His gratitude. It's 0:12:26.036 --> 0:12:28.076 like being in a place of acceptance. It's just like, 0:12:28.396 --> 0:12:32.196 if you accept something doesn't mean you're resigned to it. 0:12:32.356 --> 0:12:34.396 It just means you accepted in and you look at 0:12:34.396 --> 0:12:37.356 it and you're honest about it. And I think acceptance 0:12:37.396 --> 0:12:41.916 is so much a part of my life, and it's 0:12:41.916 --> 0:12:44.116 a part of marriage. And you had a lot of 0:12:44.196 --> 0:12:47.996 accepting to do when Michael got sick, right, I mean 0:12:48.436 --> 0:12:52.156 that was very very early in our marriage, and um, yeah, 0:12:52.236 --> 0:12:53.796 I didn't we didn't even think it was going to 0:12:53.836 --> 0:12:55.796 be I didn't go to the doctor because we didn't 0:12:55.836 --> 0:12:58.156 think it was going to be anything big. And the 0:12:58.276 --> 0:13:03.356 thing that was odd about that diagnosis was that when 0:13:03.436 --> 0:13:05.996 you get that diagnosis at such a young age, and 0:13:06.116 --> 0:13:10.356 he was like, had very very few symptoms, so you 0:13:10.516 --> 0:13:13.236 kind of have this big piece of news and then 0:13:14.476 --> 0:13:17.796 nothing really has changed. At that moment. In the day 0:13:17.876 --> 0:13:21.836 to day, you're sort of being told, now, everything's going 0:13:21.876 --> 0:13:24.596 to be the same, but come ten years, it's going 0:13:24.636 --> 0:13:28.476 to be. So it's it's a funny thing to, um 0:13:29.756 --> 0:13:33.676 to grapple with, especially as a young person and as 0:13:33.876 --> 0:13:42.436 a young married couple, because I and um, yeah, so 0:13:42.596 --> 0:13:44.956 and we had you know, we just had a very 0:13:45.076 --> 0:13:51.876 young child and um. So it was definitely something to 0:13:51.996 --> 0:13:54.796 process and something to to deal with. But at the 0:13:54.916 --> 0:13:58.716 same time, once we kind of dealt with, you know, 0:13:58.876 --> 0:14:03.436 that big kind of realization, our life stayed the same. 0:14:04.476 --> 0:14:06.796 It wasn't like all of a sudden he was, you know, 0:14:06.956 --> 0:14:08.636 not able to walk, or all of a sudden he 0:14:08.756 --> 0:14:11.236 wasn't able to participate in the same way that he'd 0:14:11.276 --> 0:14:14.436 been participating. So it was more kind of an idea 0:14:14.436 --> 0:14:17.556 on the head than it was an actual reality. Would 0:14:17.556 --> 0:14:19.436 you agree with that? Yeah, I mean I remember the 0:14:19.476 --> 0:14:21.716 moment that I told you that was I went to 0:14:21.876 --> 0:14:25.436 I had a goofy in dream like that said I 0:14:25.476 --> 0:14:27.876 had a muscle pole or something, and I just didn't 0:14:27.876 --> 0:14:28.996 think about I had it for a year and I 0:14:29.036 --> 0:14:31.596 didn't think about it that much. Uh, And and so 0:14:31.676 --> 0:14:34.436 I went to this neurologist and just to just to 0:14:34.636 --> 0:14:36.876 check it out because I'd been going to sort physical 0:14:36.956 --> 0:14:40.956 therapist sports therapist guy. And so that's why Tricy didn't 0:14:40.956 --> 0:14:42.556 go to the doctors with me, because I just went 0:14:42.636 --> 0:14:45.716 to It was like the saying a small issue as 0:14:45.756 --> 0:14:48.316 far as I was concerned, and then um, and then 0:14:48.436 --> 0:14:50.916 he gave me his diagnosis. So I came home, as 0:14:51.076 --> 0:14:53.316 I told her, and and and we just held each 0:14:53.316 --> 0:14:56.436 other and just just kind of like but like Trisy said, 0:14:56.476 --> 0:14:58.396 it was a strange thing because it was like a 0:14:58.516 --> 0:15:00.036 bus is coming. It's gonna hitt you one day. We 0:15:00.076 --> 0:15:02.556 don't know win right, but it's gonna comes gonna hit you. 0:15:03.036 --> 0:15:04.556 And and I was like, what do I do? Do 0:15:04.636 --> 0:15:06.356 I go to bed? I mean, do I do it? 0:15:06.796 --> 0:15:10.916 Like you? An ask her? And I mean that's nothing 0:15:10.956 --> 0:15:13.596 that changes, but you feel you brought a weight into 0:15:13.596 --> 0:15:15.716 the marriage. Like like my point of view was I 0:15:16.036 --> 0:15:19.436 brought this this thing, like like not not not that 0:15:19.516 --> 0:15:21.396 I didn't intentionally or whatever, but but but I feel 0:15:21.436 --> 0:15:24.636 responsibility for it. I feel like my elephant that I 0:15:24.756 --> 0:15:27.516 brought to the party and it was invited, and so 0:15:27.636 --> 0:15:34.796 how we accommodated it. We'll have more after a quick break. 0:15:47.796 --> 0:15:52.436 We're back tomorrow's conversation with Michael J. Fox and Tracy Pollen. 0:15:53.036 --> 0:15:56.236 When we left off, Michael had just told Tracy about 0:15:56.316 --> 0:16:01.276 his life changing diagnosis of Parkinson's. Did you ever worry 0:16:01.356 --> 0:16:05.156 that she might bail out on you? I worried that 0:16:05.236 --> 0:16:09.276 I might become bailable, that I might not do with 0:16:09.396 --> 0:16:12.196 it well, and and and and why I didn't. They 0:16:12.196 --> 0:16:14.636 didn't deal with it really well successfully. I didn't have 0:16:14.836 --> 0:16:16.836 a good approach to it. I mean I just kind 0:16:16.876 --> 0:16:19.916 of ignored it. And then I over medicated and wrongly medicated, 0:16:19.996 --> 0:16:22.276 and started drinking a little bit more than I had been, 0:16:22.356 --> 0:16:26.476 and and and and that'll last time about a year, 0:16:26.556 --> 0:16:29.516 year and a half. And then I started taking it serious. Man. 0:16:30.236 --> 0:16:32.476 But all that Tracy had had to deal with, and 0:16:33.356 --> 0:16:35.596 so I wasn't worried about her bailing on me. It 0:16:35.636 --> 0:16:38.916 was everybody me, like, this is my this is my thing. 0:16:38.996 --> 0:16:41.436 I have to I have to I haven't. I have 0:16:41.516 --> 0:16:43.796 to make this work within the marriage and within the family. 0:16:43.836 --> 0:16:46.716 I have to I find a way to to to 0:16:47.836 --> 0:16:52.276 not use something that separates me from my family, but 0:16:52.476 --> 0:16:56.076 something that connects me with my family. What about you, Tracy, 0:16:56.116 --> 0:16:57.556 did you ever have in the back of your mind, 0:16:57.556 --> 0:17:01.756 oh my god, I can't do this in terms of 0:17:02.436 --> 0:17:05.876 in the big picture. Definitely moments where it's just like 0:17:06.036 --> 0:17:08.516 I can't handle this. I can't, But I never thought 0:17:09.596 --> 0:17:13.036 I can't handle this today, So I'm out for good. 0:17:13.156 --> 0:17:16.196 I mean, that's just not how I live my life. 0:17:16.236 --> 0:17:18.236 It's not how I was raised. It's not you know, 0:17:18.396 --> 0:17:21.556 you love somebody, you deal with whatever it is they're 0:17:21.796 --> 0:17:24.796 dealing with, and their issues become your issues, and so 0:17:25.716 --> 0:17:28.356 you know, definitely there are struggles, but then they're also 0:17:28.836 --> 0:17:32.196 benefits and positive things that you know, so you just 0:17:32.356 --> 0:17:33.996 sort of have to take it all. You take the 0:17:34.036 --> 0:17:39.876 good with the bad. And so I never ever thought 0:17:40.436 --> 0:17:42.516 in the long run, I can't deal with In the 0:17:42.676 --> 0:17:45.316 days that you didn't think you could handle it, well, 0:17:46.036 --> 0:17:47.956 what did you do for yourself to get through that? 0:17:50.196 --> 0:17:56.476 You know, family for me is super important having just 0:17:56.676 --> 0:17:59.636 for everything like that in my life. Having I'm a 0:17:59.876 --> 0:18:03.636 very very independent person, and I need my time alone, 0:18:03.756 --> 0:18:06.796 and I need to exercise, and I need to spend 0:18:06.876 --> 0:18:12.836 time with my friends, and so I feel like as 0:18:12.916 --> 0:18:16.796 long as I'm able to carve out time for myself, 0:18:16.956 --> 0:18:20.556 especially when things feel overwhelming, and then I'm able to 0:18:20.756 --> 0:18:25.076 sort of regenerate a little bit and come back into 0:18:25.116 --> 0:18:30.716 a situation feeling stronger and more whole. My husband, one 0:18:30.756 --> 0:18:33.676 of my husbands, has five children, and one of his 0:18:33.836 --> 0:18:38.236 sons was doing dangerous things after one year of our marriage, 0:18:38.796 --> 0:18:40.996 and of course I did what you did. I just 0:18:41.276 --> 0:18:45.356 dug right in and did everything. And years later Phil 0:18:45.436 --> 0:18:47.636 said to me, boy said, you know, I thought you'd 0:18:47.676 --> 0:18:51.516 bail on me on that. I said, you did. No. No, 0:18:51.636 --> 0:18:55.756 I accepted it, you know, but there is that feeling 0:18:55.836 --> 0:18:59.636 that the other one might have. I was scared. I 0:18:59.796 --> 0:19:02.356 was scared to death because I never knew anything like that, 0:19:03.116 --> 0:19:06.156 and I would have awful dreams. Did you ever have 0:19:06.356 --> 0:19:10.116 terrible dreams? Or was that two personal? It's it's not 0:19:10.276 --> 0:19:12.876 that I can specifically remember, but I do feel like 0:19:13.076 --> 0:19:15.436 in terms of when you're dealing with something as a couple, 0:19:15.636 --> 0:19:18.636 either you're dealing with the death of a parent, or 0:19:18.676 --> 0:19:21.276 you're dealing with an illness, you're dealing with an issue 0:19:21.316 --> 0:19:25.756 with your kids, and those things that seem so insurmountable 0:19:25.916 --> 0:19:30.436 and difficult, once you've kind of gone through them together 0:19:30.676 --> 0:19:33.796 and gotten to the other end of it, it just 0:19:33.956 --> 0:19:36.876 makes you stronger. It makes your marriage, stronger the relationship, 0:19:36.996 --> 0:19:41.196 and you realize, okay, we handled that, we can handle 0:19:41.236 --> 0:19:42.876 the next thing. And you know, it just sort of 0:19:42.996 --> 0:19:48.036 gives you fortitude together as like a united and a 0:19:48.116 --> 0:19:52.676 path a path through. Right. Yeah, are there things you 0:19:52.836 --> 0:19:58.316 do physically to help? Michael? It's tough once you're transition. 0:19:58.396 --> 0:20:00.316 I'm I can't walk as well as dude. So I 0:20:00.476 --> 0:20:03.476 used to usually with my dog and walk through the 0:20:03.556 --> 0:20:06.116 park and go over to the Museum Natural History and 0:20:06.156 --> 0:20:07.556 going to the dog park there and walk back through 0:20:07.596 --> 0:20:09.916 the park and all of stuff. I can't do that anymore. 0:20:10.156 --> 0:20:12.196 I may be able to day in the future, I hope, 0:20:12.196 --> 0:20:14.236 but I can't right now. It's on the same way 0:20:14.236 --> 0:20:18.156 we used to go do stuff. So so uh now 0:20:18.236 --> 0:20:21.236 we're finding ways to to Like we learn a safari 0:20:21.396 --> 0:20:23.676 and I could be in the jeep a lot of 0:20:23.716 --> 0:20:28.356 the time, and that it's an allowance. It's change. Are 0:20:28.396 --> 0:20:30.956 you going on a safari? We did? We did? Yeah? 0:20:31.036 --> 0:20:33.916 We did less and and how did you do? Was 0:20:33.956 --> 0:20:37.916 it great? And the hont want? I don't want to go. 0:20:37.916 --> 0:20:39.796 At one point I just said, I don't know what 0:20:39.996 --> 0:20:42.636 this does for me because I can't do this stuff, 0:20:42.676 --> 0:20:46.196 and she said, send the jeep and look at the Melvans. 0:20:46.276 --> 0:20:48.676 I mean, have a good time. And he said, if 0:20:48.716 --> 0:20:50.956 one of it is animals start coming for us, I'm 0:20:51.036 --> 0:20:56.796 the one. Yeah, I didn't know. I haven't wonder that. 0:20:57.356 --> 0:20:59.676 I remember one by the watering home. It's sick, lamb 0:20:59.676 --> 0:21:03.516 and old. So I mean, Tracy has always encouraged me 0:21:03.676 --> 0:21:06.916 to get involved into and to not project, not to 0:21:07.356 --> 0:21:09.676 project where where I might be, you know. So I 0:21:09.836 --> 0:21:13.876 tend to take things on because if I'll just meet 0:21:13.916 --> 0:21:16.596 the day right and and and Tracy gives me that 0:21:17.076 --> 0:21:21.316 encouragement to just meet the day just when when we 0:21:21.396 --> 0:21:23.796 get there, and we'll deal with it. I think that's where. 0:21:23.796 --> 0:21:27.076 Did you enjoy it? Loved it? Yeah? It was amazing, fantastic. 0:21:27.476 --> 0:21:30.396 What would you pass on that you've learned as a couple. 0:21:31.036 --> 0:21:34.236 I would say, I guess three things. I'd say Number one, 0:21:34.316 --> 0:21:36.356 give each other the benefit of the doubt, not that 0:21:36.436 --> 0:21:38.956 this is the person you love and this person loves you, 0:21:39.276 --> 0:21:43.556 so just assume the best from them. Don't assume the worst, um, 0:21:43.796 --> 0:21:46.156 because it's easy to get sort of sucked into that. 0:21:47.076 --> 0:21:51.396 And I would say, make sure you carve out time 0:21:51.836 --> 0:21:55.196 to spend together even when you have your kids, and 0:21:55.396 --> 0:21:57.276 you know, to do to have your date nights and 0:21:57.396 --> 0:22:00.396 to have just that time together is so important. And 0:22:00.476 --> 0:22:02.876 at the same time, carve out time to have by 0:22:02.916 --> 0:22:07.356 yourself and um, because the time that you have by 0:22:07.396 --> 0:22:11.116 yourself informs the time that you have together. I think, 0:22:12.076 --> 0:22:17.676 I think you're not You're not trying to create a 0:22:17.796 --> 0:22:20.316 new situation for you, like a new like a new 0:22:20.396 --> 0:22:23.876 thing for you, Like this is a thing for both 0:22:23.916 --> 0:22:25.636 of you and and and it's gonna be a new thing. 0:22:25.676 --> 0:22:27.636 It's gonna be a different thing. It's gonna be You're 0:22:27.676 --> 0:22:30.196 not gonna your shocks may not end up in the 0:22:30.236 --> 0:22:31.716 same place where you used to put them. Or it's 0:22:31.756 --> 0:22:34.716 becoming a new thing. It's becoming a new phenomenon. And 0:22:34.916 --> 0:22:37.116