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Speaker 1: There was an early story on when I first ran

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Speaker 1: that I looked to regal in my tweed suit with

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Speaker 1: pearls and every hair and place to ever relate to

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Speaker 1: the average voter in New Jersey. And so funny how

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Speaker 1: we're so judged by our packaging, isn't how I know?

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Speaker 1: I never wore pearls again. That was Christie Todd Whitman,

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Speaker 1: the first female governor of New Jersey, who served between

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Speaker 1: nineteen and two thousand one, and someone I've always deeply

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Speaker 1: admired because she's come across as level headed, measured, and

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Speaker 1: really in this very partisan, toxic atmosphere that we're living

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Speaker 1: in today, Brian someone who I think was pretty moderate

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Speaker 1: and certainly listened to both sides, and even when she

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Speaker 1: ran for office, it was very difficult for somebody like

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Speaker 1: Christy Whitman to get through a Republican primary. Mike Murphy,

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Speaker 1: who was on this show earlier, was her campaign consultant.

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Speaker 1: He described to me just even though she was such

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Speaker 1: a big star and a great candidate, she was considerably

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Speaker 1: to the left of where Republican primary voters were. And

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Speaker 1: that was back in when that was back and so

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Speaker 1: of course that was pre Palin pre Tea Party, pre Trump,

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Speaker 1: and the world has changed pretty dramatically since then, so

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Speaker 1: queery whether somebody like Christy Whitman could get elected to

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Speaker 1: office in either party today. I've done so many political

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Speaker 1: interviews and female candidates and office holders are few and

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Speaker 1: far between. I was hardened to read though. Since Donald

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Speaker 1: Trump was elected president, something like eleven thousand women have

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Speaker 1: been inspired to run for office. So hopefully things will change,

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Speaker 1: because I think the record is pretty abysmal when it

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Speaker 1: comes to electing women to positions of power. Well, it's

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Speaker 1: improved a little on the legislative side. There are more

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Speaker 1: women in House in the Senate than when Christy Whitman

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Speaker 1: was governor, but not so much among chief executives executive

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Speaker 1: jobs around the country. There are still very few female governors,

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Speaker 1: and this is more of an issue I think for

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Speaker 1: the voters. We have to be more willing and able

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Speaker 1: to imagine women in these roles. I am woman, to

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Speaker 1: hear me roar in numbers too big to ignore, I'm sorry.

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Speaker 1: Governor Whitman has stayed involved in political discourse, at least,

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Speaker 1: writing a lot of op eds and opining about the

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Speaker 1: state of the environment. As the former head of the

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Speaker 1: e p A, and of course we talked about climate

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Speaker 1: change and whether there are reasons to be hopeful or

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Speaker 1: whether we should all just move inland and give up now.

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Speaker 1: But of course, most Americans probably last remember her as

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Speaker 1: the e p A administrator right after None eleven, when

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Speaker 1: she infamously said that the air was safe to breathe.

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Speaker 1: She later apologized for that mistake because, of course, so

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Speaker 1: many first responders got very sick after working down at

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Speaker 1: the pile, as it was called, following the terrible events

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Speaker 1: at the World Trade Center. I interviewed her for sixty

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Speaker 1: minutes many years ago about that, and um, she clearly

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Speaker 1: came to regret that decision because she did put a

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Speaker 1: lot of people in danger. And her tenure at the

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Speaker 1: p A was a very tumultuous one. As we discussed,

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Speaker 1: she had major conflicts with the administration Vice President Cheney,

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Speaker 1: in particular about climate change, about how power plants should

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Speaker 1: be regulated, and other issues, and we got into all

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Speaker 1: of that, but more broadly, we talked about the lessons

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Speaker 1: that she learned as somebody who was in the arena

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Speaker 1: taking incoming fire for decades, somebody who took risks and

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Speaker 1: put herself out there She certainly was born into a

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Speaker 1: family where she didn't have to do that, and she's

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Speaker 1: in many ways an exemplary public servant. She has a

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Speaker 1: long history with President Donald Trump, and the first thing

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Speaker 1: we asked her is how she was feeling as she

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Speaker 1: is watching things unfold in the nation's capital. What are

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Speaker 1: you thinking, Christie Todd Whitman, I'm very troubled. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I've seen this coming for a while. That my book

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Speaker 1: back in two thousand and five, I guess it was

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Speaker 1: um kind of predicted what was going to go on,

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Speaker 1: and being in a position to saying I told you

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Speaker 1: so is not satisfying at all when it's moved this way.

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Speaker 1: I've maintained for a long time that I thought that

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Speaker 1: Trump voters and the Bernie Sanders voters were two sides

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Speaker 1: of the same coin. They were people who were angry

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Speaker 1: and frustrated and scared at the inaction in Washington and Congress.

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Speaker 1: They didn't know what was happening with their future, and

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Speaker 1: they didn't really listen to what their candidates were saying

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Speaker 1: in the same way that maybe others were. They just

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Speaker 1: wanted to hear they were going to blow up the

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Speaker 1: existing system because it just wasn't working for them. Sometimes,

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Speaker 1: I wonder, do you think people expect too much from

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Speaker 1: their government? Oh? I think they have very high expectations.

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Speaker 1: Let's put it that way. But that wouldn't be hard

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Speaker 1: nowadays because Congress really hasn't gotten other than the Affordable

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Speaker 1: Care Act. If you look back over the last eight

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Speaker 1: to ten years, there haven't been a whole lot of

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Speaker 1: major pieces of legislation that have changed the way people live.

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Speaker 1: And as they are looking at the economy, not it's

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Speaker 1: growing two percent, it's just it's not great. They're worried

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Speaker 1: about their jobbing. Part of it government can do nothing

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Speaker 1: about because it is called its development. It is the technology,

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Speaker 1: and technology is making a lot of people redundant, and

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Speaker 1: we're seeing that and that scares them. When you need

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Speaker 1: to worry every day about how you're going to feed

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Speaker 1: your family, keep a roof over your head, whether you

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Speaker 1: can get your health care, those are real concerns, and

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Speaker 1: they just didn't see Washington address them. They just saw

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Speaker 1: Washington yelling the people yelling at one another over partisan issues.

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Speaker 1: And if you think back, we didn't used to every

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Speaker 1: vote was not a partisan vote. It used to be

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Speaker 1: that there were policy decisions where two sides would come

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Speaker 1: together and say we've got to do this, and if

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Speaker 1: someone had a real problem with a vote, they say, Okay,

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Speaker 1: you don't have to vote on this one or this amendment.

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Speaker 1: We'll let you go. Now, every votes a partisan vote.

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Speaker 1: It's more about partisans politics than it is about policy.

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Speaker 1: And as you mentioned, you wrote this book back in

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Speaker 1: two thousand five about how the Republican Party needed to

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Speaker 1: move to the center. This was before the Tea Party

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Speaker 1: and Sarah Palin and certainly before Donald Trump. Why do

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Speaker 1: you think we've seen this collapse in not just the center,

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Speaker 1: but the constituency for the center in American politics. Well,

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Speaker 1: I don't think we actually have seen a collapse of

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Speaker 1: the constituency for the center. What we've seen as a

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Speaker 1: collapse of people participating in the system. And if there's

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Speaker 1: one thing that is good that came out of this

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Speaker 1: election cycle is I think that people have finally figured

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Speaker 1: out that the way to make a difference is at

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Speaker 1: the ballot box. Because up until this cycle, if you

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Speaker 1: looked at it primaries, the average voter turnout primaries and

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Speaker 1: this country was about ten for congressional relay elections at

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Speaker 1: the top. When they were the top of the ticket

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Speaker 1: was and presidential. We patted ourselves on the back saying

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Speaker 1: if we got over Well, when you do that and

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Speaker 1: you think about it, particularly in the primaries, who is

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Speaker 1: who makes up that ten There the most partisan people,

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Speaker 1: and they tend to have an agenda. They have one

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Speaker 1: or two items about which they cared deeply. And so

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Speaker 1: the most partisan people are making the decisions that we

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Speaker 1: face in the fall, that everyone else faces in the fall.

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Speaker 1: And then people look at it and say, well, I

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Speaker 1: don't like either of these candidates, but just to push

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to vote, but just to push back

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Speaker 1: against you a little bit on that. Donald Trump has

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Speaker 1: like an eight five or approval rating among Republicans. I

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Speaker 1: question which Republicans they're pulling. They're pulling his base. His

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Speaker 1: base is very very strong. They're true believers. They're people

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Speaker 1: who say the system is so messed up that at

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Speaker 1: least he's doing what they say. He's doing what he

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Speaker 1: said he was doing going to do, but he's not.

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Speaker 1: And eventually I think that will start to percolate down. Um,

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Speaker 1: he's done some of it though, and he has certainly

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Speaker 1: talked to it, and uh, it's interesting early on I've

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Speaker 1: heard anecdotally. I can't prove it, but that when he

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Speaker 1: went first went down after he was nominated to talk

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Speaker 1: to the congressional leadership, they started talk to him about

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Speaker 1: policy and he said, no, no, I figure out what

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Speaker 1: people want to hear, and that's what I tell him. Well,

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Speaker 1: let's step back and actually talk about your relationship with

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump, if we might, because that goes back quite

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Speaker 1: a way. So you were, of course governor in New

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Speaker 1: Jersey while he was a major casino operator in Atlantic City.

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Speaker 1: When did you meet him? How did you meet him

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Speaker 1: and what was that relationship like? Well, I met him

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Speaker 1: at the very beginning, when after I'd been elected, we

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Speaker 1: held a big event, fundraising event for charities called Many

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Speaker 1: Phases One Family in Atlantic City, and um we had

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Speaker 1: an entertainer who was supposed to do a concert that

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Speaker 1: night and I it was Barry Manilow. And on the

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Speaker 1: day of he suddenly said, oh, I didn't know this

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Speaker 1: was political, and he backed out. I have suspicions as

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Speaker 1: to that might have been just a ted or orchestrated

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Speaker 1: but that could be me. Um. Anyway, Donald Trump stepped

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Speaker 1: up and said, I have um, no, I can't Paul Ankle,

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Speaker 1: that's right. When was this? This was right after I

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Speaker 1: was elected. This was before my inaugural when we did

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Speaker 1: uh that was that three days of the weekend before

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Speaker 1: the before the inaugural. And he stepped in and Paul

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Speaker 1: Anko was wonderful and he was great and Donald Trump,

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Speaker 1: I can't stand that song Christie my way is better

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Speaker 1: than You're having my baby. That's not one of my favorites.

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Speaker 1: But he was very nice. I mean, I actually wasn't

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Speaker 1: all that worried about the whole thing because I figured,

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Speaker 1: you know, this is these kind of things happen. You

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Speaker 1: just to refund the money if people wanted back. It

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Speaker 1: was all for charity, big deal, go to bit earlier.

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Speaker 1: But anyway, he did step in and the only thing

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Speaker 1: he asked was that he and Marla the wife at

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Speaker 1: the time. Yeah, I think it probably was Marla just

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Speaker 1: need wanted to sit with John and I at the beginning,

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Speaker 1: which he did, and it was fine. What really broke

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Speaker 1: any relationship we had was when UM I opened up

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Speaker 1: the card or getting into Atlantic City made it easier

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Speaker 1: for people to get into Atlantic City because I also

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Speaker 1: UM and Nicer the Road Nicer Bridge. UM also opened

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Speaker 1: up a piece of property, that's access to a piece

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Speaker 1: of property that Steve went owned. It also opened up

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Speaker 1: a better access to Trump's second casino, the Marina Casino.

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Speaker 1: But because Steve Wynn was coming in, who was Trump's

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Speaker 1: arch rival at the Trump's archer, these groups say those

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Speaker 1: things changed, so so basically you were dead to him

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Speaker 1: as a result of that. Oh yeah, oh yeah, he

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Speaker 1: was very He was not a supporter in my re

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Speaker 1: election campaign. Shall we say, how did he make his

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Speaker 1: displeasure known? Oh? I think he said some things that

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Speaker 1: were not terribly nice and tweet about you. I don't

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Speaker 1: think what tweeting was around then. It was too long ago.

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Speaker 1: I would have if he could have, And you know,

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Speaker 1: I mean, that's just one of those things. It's so

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Speaker 1: you endorsed John Kasik in the campaign, then you said

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Speaker 1: you'd support Hillary over Trump. At the time, you wrote

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Speaker 1: a Hillary presidency promises more of the Obama failed policies.

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Speaker 1: Not exactly glowing endorsement there. But she would at least

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Speaker 1: walk into the Oval office ready to govern. She would

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Speaker 1: be a steady hand on the nuclear code. Do you

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Speaker 1: think our current president is an unsteady hand on the

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Speaker 1: nuclear codes? Well, Fortunately, they're enough roadblocks put in place

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Speaker 1: for that to be um the top concern. But I

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Speaker 1: do certainly think I do question his judgment um the

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Speaker 1: kinds of things that we're hearing about, what was said

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Speaker 1: in the Oval office with the Russians, his disclosure of

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Speaker 1: sensitive information. Okay, he did not say it was Israel,

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Speaker 1: but he gave enough information that allowed people to go

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Speaker 1: backwards and say, this is clearly where it had to come.

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Speaker 1: And then in Israel he said, oh, I never mentioned Israel,

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Speaker 1: which I never mentioned, which you want to say, oh,

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Speaker 1: come on, really, Um, he's his own worst and me

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Speaker 1: in many ways. If he didn't tweet things at two

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Speaker 1: a m. Things would be a lot quieter. He keeps

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Speaker 1: stories going that don't need to keep going, or you know,

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Speaker 1: wouldn't be as prominent. But all this stuff with Comey

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Speaker 1: and the apparently what he said to the Russians about

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Speaker 1: calling called me a nut job, and that he things

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Speaker 1: were going to be easier. He didn't say he did

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Speaker 1: it to relieve plessure on the Russian probe, but he

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Speaker 1: just said it was things were much easier now, so

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Speaker 1: you can people draw their own conclusions from that. We

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Speaker 1: have to be very careful though he did not say

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Speaker 1: I did it because but but he did say he

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Speaker 1: did say in an NBC interview that was what he

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Speaker 1: was thinking about the Russian investigation. So clearly if it

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Speaker 1: walks like a duck, and from a legal point of view,

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Speaker 1: I don't think you can make the A to B

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Speaker 1: that cleanly were not in a court. But that's all

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Speaker 1: I'm talking about. Republic opinion. Clearly, Uh, people believe that

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Speaker 1: not his Again, what's so fascinating and scary that that

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Speaker 1: every poll that's been done, and particularly John Detal Wilpie

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Speaker 1: did one for Harvard for the Kennedy School, and it

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Speaker 1: showed people don't trust any institution. They don't trust the news,

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Speaker 1: they don't trust the courts, they don't trust the presidency.

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Speaker 1: And that's a really bad place for rust be as

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Speaker 1: a nation. I mean, where do you turn? That's you know,

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Speaker 1: that's the topic of conversation everywhere I go. I just

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Speaker 1: went to the graduation of Colorado College because my stepson

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Speaker 1: just graduated from there, and the commencement speaker gave an excellent,

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Speaker 1: excellent address about truth decay and about how we deal

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Speaker 1: with this bifurcated society that now currently exists, and I

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Speaker 1: think everyone knows it exists, they bemoan it, and yet

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Speaker 1: they don't know how to fix it. How do you

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Speaker 1: fix it when people are so partisan and you know,

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Speaker 1: they make of alternative facts, but I think they're clearly

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Speaker 1: alternative points of view. I wish I knew the answer.

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Speaker 1: I wish it were simple, that you could come up

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Speaker 1: with one or two answers. But it's something that's going

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Speaker 1: to take time. It's really is, and it's it's a

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Speaker 1: reinforcing that what we have to do is listen to

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Speaker 1: one another, stop shouting. That you can disagree without being

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Speaker 1: disagreeable and doesn't make you my enemy because you have

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Speaker 1: a different position. If people would just take the time

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Speaker 1: to really discuss issues, it's amazing how many points of

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Speaker 1: similarity and addressing them you can find. But you know,

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Speaker 1: you talk about listening and talking to each other. It

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Speaker 1: does sound a tad Kumbaya at this point in time, Christie,

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Speaker 1: because I obviously I agree, but it's sort of but

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Speaker 1: we have to push back. We have to push back

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Speaker 1: harder in the sense of we have to it's so

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Speaker 1: easy now to communicate that we need to communicate. One

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Speaker 1: of the things that we've found is that if you

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Speaker 1: reinforce positive behavior, I mean, if they're for instance, then

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Speaker 1: there's a congressman who are doing what you want them

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Speaker 1: to do, let them know that most of the time

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Speaker 1: we don't. We just bitch at the ones we don't

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Speaker 1: who aren't doing what we want them to do. And

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Speaker 1: so if you're a representative and you're supposedly representing your

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Speaker 1: constituents and all you hear from are the people who

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Speaker 1: are saying you're doing a terrible job because that was

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Speaker 1: a really awful vote, or don't you dare vote this way,

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Speaker 1: and not hearing from the people who say, you know,

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Speaker 1: we're we're glad that you're talking to the other side,

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Speaker 1: we're glad that you're forming bipartisan coalitions. Then what do

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Speaker 1: they do they representing their constituents. They also know that

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Speaker 1: if they go against leadership and actually tried it, because nowadays,

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Speaker 1: if you reach across the aisle at all, leadership says

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Speaker 1: to you, you better watch out, we're gonna get you

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Speaker 1: in a primary and we're not going to support you. Uh,

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Speaker 1: that's scary stuff. If what you want to do is

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Speaker 1: be in office so you can make a difference, are

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Speaker 1: you discouraged that Republicans on Capitol Hill haven't grown a pair. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I am, and I'm discouraged that Schumer at the very

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Speaker 1: beginning of this administration, in his um what he was

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Speaker 1: saying to his members was one of our one of

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Speaker 1: the things we want to do is spend every moment

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Speaker 1: trying to embarrass the president. I mean, that's not the

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Speaker 1: attitude we need. Isn't that what McConnell said, though, when

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Speaker 1: when I don't Obama was elected absolutely, but that's neither

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Speaker 1: one is right. I mean, the problem is we have

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Speaker 1: to stand up as a people and say, no, damn it,

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Speaker 1: that's not what we want to hear. Well, you saw

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Speaker 1: the same thing at play with Merrick Garland and Neil Gorson.

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Speaker 1: It's so an eye for an eye mentality. You knew

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Speaker 1: there were several other institutions than in the eighth year.

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Speaker 1: You don't get to a point judges anymore, it's hard

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Speaker 1: to find. Yeah, yeah, can I ask you more broadly speaking,

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Speaker 1: The last time our institution seemed to be under this

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Speaker 1: much stress was during Watergate, and I think a lot

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Speaker 1: of people don't remember that the smoking gun tape that

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Speaker 1: was at the center of the Watergate scandal was about

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Speaker 1: the President conspiring to get the intelligence community to shut

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Speaker 1: down an FBI investigation. Familiar. So we now have these

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Speaker 1: reports that the President Trump not only tried repeatedly to

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Speaker 1: get the FBI director to back off, he asked top

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Speaker 1: intelligence officials to get the A and General Rogers, Admiral Rodgers,

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Speaker 1: Mike Rodgers, the n S. A. M McCain says, this

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Speaker 1: is Watergate size and scale. Do you agree with that?

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Speaker 1: I do? I absolutely agree. I think that is where

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Speaker 1: you know that. So are we heading toward impeachment, resignation

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Speaker 1: something like that? I think it would probably be resignation

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Speaker 1: rather than ampeachment. Impeachment is a tough thing to prove.

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Speaker 1: And now, of course you've got Bob Muller as a

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Speaker 1: special counsel, and first of all, he's a dead, honest,

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Speaker 1: really above board guy by everybody. But the problem is

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Speaker 1: a special counsel is a criminal investigation, which means that

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Speaker 1: those and I will say, I thought the Senate investigation

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Speaker 1: was moving forward in a pretty bipartisan way very seriously.

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Speaker 1: But now what you'll have as a whole lot of

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Speaker 1: people who might have been called to testify before the

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Speaker 1: Senate or the House, who are not going to want

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Speaker 1: to do it because there's a criminal investigation lurking out there,

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Speaker 1: and those things also can take a lot of time.

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Speaker 1: Besides the fact that the Special Council can be fired

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Speaker 1: by the President. But if that happens, let's forget it.

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Speaker 1: That's all over. I think if I don't think that

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Speaker 1: would ever happen, So it could really slow things down.

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Speaker 1: It could because Bob Miller is going to be very,

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Speaker 1: very thorough, and a Special Council has to be thorough

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Speaker 1: and has to follow every trail wherever it leads. So

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Speaker 1: it's going to be it's going to take a while.

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Speaker 1: I don't think we're at that stage yet. So for

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Speaker 1: for people who aren't necessarily students of Watergate or understand

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Speaker 1: how corruption or ethics violations are really investigated on Capitol Hill,

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Speaker 1: give us a sense of sort of, So they're all

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Speaker 1: these investigations going on, right, You've got the FBI investigation.

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Speaker 1: Is that still going on investigation? There's a Senate intelligence investigation,

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Speaker 1: the House Intelligence I sent there another over, I mean

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Speaker 1: is that aren't there some other congressional investigations going on

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Speaker 1: to I think those are the four major ones. There

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Speaker 1: maybe some smaller ones that a little finite parts of

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Speaker 1: this whole story. There's plenty going on, I mean, Governor,

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Speaker 1: a sense of like the time frame and what we're

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Speaker 1: dealing with, because I think people feel like they're about

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Speaker 1: to explode if the President doesn't do it first. So

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Speaker 1: I mean, how how do you see this all kind

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Speaker 1: of um rolling out? If you will? Well, a special

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Speaker 1: counsel that is probably going to take a lot of time.

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Speaker 1: When you say a lot of time, it can take years.

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Speaker 1: I mean you look at what happened the Watergate and

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Speaker 1: the Special Council and the amount of time that the

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Speaker 1: break in was June of Nixon didn't resign intil August

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Speaker 1: of seventy, so I mean that was a long time.

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Speaker 1: So that's the problem, and that the Senate will go ahead,

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Speaker 1: but as I say, it probably won't have access to

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Speaker 1: as much information or people as it would have otherwise.

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Speaker 1: I mean, they'll what Flynn did and take the fifth

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Speaker 1: um constantly, constantly. So I'm not going to tell you

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Speaker 1: what I which I mean it shouldn't. But everybody says, Okay,

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Speaker 1: that means you're guilty of sin and when you take

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Speaker 1: the fifth but it shouldn't. It's it is a constitutionally

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Speaker 1: provided um provision for you to not it self incriminate.

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Speaker 1: But that right there, you're saying, oh, you'd incriminate yourself

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Speaker 1: if you said anything which means you did something bad. Uh.

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Speaker 1: The whole thing is is just I can't believe it

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Speaker 1: hasn't been more than a couple of months and yet

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Speaker 1: this turmoil is roiling. He's doing a very good job,

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Speaker 1: it seems overseas right now, but it's not going to

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Speaker 1: make all this go away at home. And what about

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Speaker 1: Flynn and not coming clean about all the money he'd

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Speaker 1: gotten from all these Russians when he was applying to

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Speaker 1: get his security clearance renewed, Right, it was insane. Right,

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Speaker 1: that's another investigation that's going on into him, just person

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Speaker 1: just very specifically. But he will also be caught up.

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Speaker 1: And I think that's part of the reason why he

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Speaker 1: took the fifth before the Senate, because it wouldn't turn

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Speaker 1: over the things, because he knows the Comy investigation is

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Speaker 1: going to come after him. All those people, Manafort, Stone,

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Speaker 1: all those people are going to be caught up in

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Speaker 1: the Stone apparently was very happy when Comey was fired,

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Speaker 1: said now I'm having a big cigar. Well, guess what

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Speaker 1: I would sound. I was going to say, yeah. By

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Speaker 1: the way, the new Netflix documentary Get Me Roger Stone

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Speaker 1: for people want to Understan haven't seen it? I have phenomenon.

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Speaker 1: It's it's really excellent. But we have to throw to

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Speaker 1: a quick break. We'll be back with more from Governor

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Speaker 1: Christie Todd Whitman. We're back with former New Jersey Governor

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Speaker 1: Christie Todd Whitman. And may I call you Christie? Please? Do?

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Speaker 1: Can I sell you CT? I'm kidding, I'll call you

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Speaker 1: christ No, you don't see I think that a lot

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Speaker 1: of people I you are sort of regal and patrician,

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Speaker 1: and I think it's because you come from and I

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Speaker 1: grew up on a farm. I'm very good at shoveling.

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Speaker 1: You know what, well, do you feel comfortable Do you

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Speaker 1: feel comfortable with waspy? You've been called that before. I've

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Speaker 1: been called a lot of things. How would you just

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Speaker 1: like to be called or how would you like to

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Speaker 1: be described? Uh? Somebody who tries to do their best.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know, because there was an early

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Speaker 1: story on when I first ran that I looked to

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Speaker 1: regal in my tweed suit with pearls and every hair

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Speaker 1: and place to ever relate to the average voter in

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Speaker 1: New Jersey. And so funny how we're so judged by

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Speaker 1: our packaging, isn't he? I know I never wore pearl

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Speaker 1: U again, speaking of your packaging, I beg your pardner

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Speaker 1: being careful in this atmosphere these days. That could have

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Speaker 1: all sorts of meanings. I don't. I don't mean it

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Speaker 1: in the in the Trump sense of the word. Um.

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Speaker 1: You kind of come from Republican royalty. Your parents were

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Speaker 1: for decades New Jersey's most prominent Republican couple. Your dad

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Speaker 1: helped to build Rockefeller Center. Your mom was vice chair

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Speaker 1: of the Republican National Committee, kind of a pioneering woman

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Speaker 1: in Republican politics. My grandmother to your grandmother as well

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Speaker 1: well her, she was very involved in politics and New

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Speaker 1: Jersey and Women's Federation. So did you grow up thinking

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Speaker 1: that you'd like to run for office. No, I grew

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Speaker 1: up thinking knowing that I wanted to be involved in policy,

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Speaker 1: because that's what I'm the youngest of four, youngest by

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Speaker 1: eight years, so I was sort of the tail end,

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Speaker 1: and I got to hang around the dining room table

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Speaker 1: all the time and be at a lot of events

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Speaker 1: and things that my parents were doing, and heard the

430
00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:02,840
Speaker 1: conversation about what was going on the community or the

431
00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:05,680
Speaker 1: state of the nation. And we lived overseas for a bit,

432
00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:08,240
Speaker 1: and so I always knew I wanted to be involved

433
00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:11,000
Speaker 1: in policy. I didn't think specifically about running for office

434
00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:15,000
Speaker 1: until I got well into my career. What was it

435
00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:18,439
Speaker 1: about policy that really kind of u turns you on?

436
00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:21,040
Speaker 1: I mean, I could only ask you that question and

437
00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:25,760
Speaker 1: Brian Goldsmith that question, but otherwise it would be ironic.

438
00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:28,479
Speaker 1: It would be a limited number of people have really

439
00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:31,440
Speaker 1: turned off by policy. But something, you know, some point

440
00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:36,439
Speaker 1: of conversation, some the ability to make a positive difference

441
00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:39,600
Speaker 1: in people's lives, to to really affect things in a

442
00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:43,120
Speaker 1: in a way you think they should be going. It's

443
00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:46,360
Speaker 1: um and it's just so involved in people. I've always been.

444
00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:49,159
Speaker 1: I have a short attention span. The longest job I

445
00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:52,240
Speaker 1: ever held was governor for seven years. I like going

446
00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:54,919
Speaker 1: up a learning curve. I like learning new things, and

447
00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:58,320
Speaker 1: I like getting to know and be with people, and

448
00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:01,120
Speaker 1: and that ability. When you think about policy, you're thinking

449
00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:03,399
Speaker 1: about how do you make things better? How do you

450
00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:06,639
Speaker 1: make whatever it is better, whether it's individuals, lives, the environment, whatever,

451
00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:09,600
Speaker 1: and uh, that was just an enormous turn on and

452
00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:11,879
Speaker 1: it was just fascinating. Was is there is there a

453
00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:17,040
Speaker 1: specific area of policy though, that you gravitated toward. Was

454
00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:20,320
Speaker 1: its social justice? Was it environment? What? You know? It

455
00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:21,760
Speaker 1: was all of those. And that's what was so great

456
00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:23,960
Speaker 1: about being a governor because the governor you deal with

457
00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:25,520
Speaker 1: all of it. And people often say, well, what's your

458
00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:28,240
Speaker 1: proudest thing is governor? I said, you know what? From

459
00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:33,560
Speaker 1: making I'm known probably most for the plan to put

460
00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:36,359
Speaker 1: together to to set outside of Manian acres of open space.

461
00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:38,880
Speaker 1: But I also cared about the fact that we did

462
00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:42,199
Speaker 1: redid welfare reform in New Jersey in a way that

463
00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:45,359
Speaker 1: actually supported and sustained the people who were we were

464
00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:47,040
Speaker 1: trying to move off. And I still have people who

465
00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:49,080
Speaker 1: come up to me now saying, you don't know what

466
00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:51,560
Speaker 1: a difference that made. And I am off. I've been

467
00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:54,040
Speaker 1: working for years and my children are proud of me

468
00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:55,639
Speaker 1: and that kind of thing, you know, I mean that

469
00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:58,640
Speaker 1: the right. That's the thing I've always loved about government

470
00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:01,600
Speaker 1: and politics is it's so such a wide variety of

471
00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:04,480
Speaker 1: areas in which you can be involved. Is that challenging

472
00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:08,960
Speaker 1: them to have to have that kind of expertise on

473
00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:11,960
Speaker 1: so many different topics, because I think I could never

474
00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:15,479
Speaker 1: run for office because I would feel like I wasn't

475
00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:21,040
Speaker 1: knowledgeable enough about you are you are exhibiting the biggest

476
00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:24,520
Speaker 1: problem that we have with getting women involved is we always,

477
00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:26,920
Speaker 1: as women, think it's got to be somebody better out

478
00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:29,040
Speaker 1: there at this who knows more than I do. And

479
00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:32,400
Speaker 1: you know what, you give a guy, with all due respect, um,

480
00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:34,800
Speaker 1: you give a guy the opportunity to do something totally

481
00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:37,760
Speaker 1: outside of their spheres of knowledge, and let's fine, bring

482
00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:39,639
Speaker 1: it on. I can learn, well, we can learn to

483
00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:45,440
Speaker 1: I mean jobs. It's I when I when Governor Kane

484
00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:47,960
Speaker 1: asked me to become president of the Board of Public Utilities,

485
00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:51,360
Speaker 1: I knew nothing about regulating utilities, although we did regulate

486
00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:56,080
Speaker 1: garbage then, and I do know something about garbage regulations.

487
00:26:56,080 --> 00:27:00,120
Speaker 1: Oh hey, the first trial that we had was really interesting. Um.

488
00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:04,320
Speaker 1: But in any event, you can learn what you don't.

489
00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:06,760
Speaker 1: The message I give to young people when I speak

490
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:08,760
Speaker 1: to them is don't try to be an expert and everything.

491
00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:11,159
Speaker 1: Know what it is, you want to do what you

492
00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:14,200
Speaker 1: need to do, and figure out who are the people.

493
00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:16,120
Speaker 1: There's always going to be someone wherever you go, who

494
00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:18,400
Speaker 1: knows more about what you're doing than you do. Find them,

495
00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:20,880
Speaker 1: learn from them, Listen to them, ask them what their

496
00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:23,199
Speaker 1: biggest problems are. If you show people a little bit

497
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:26,560
Speaker 1: of respect, if you listen to what they're saying, they'll

498
00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:29,200
Speaker 1: really do things for you and and you can learn.

499
00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:31,840
Speaker 1: I think another thing that keeps people from running for

500
00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:36,919
Speaker 1: office is all the criticism, you know, the pressure, people

501
00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:39,880
Speaker 1: saying ugly things about you, and not just about your

502
00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:42,960
Speaker 1: pearls and tweets suits, I mean really nasty things. As

503
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:46,960
Speaker 1: we've seen the Internet as unleashed. No, it's different, file

504
00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:49,840
Speaker 1: And so what would you say to someone who says,

505
00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:52,560
Speaker 1: male or female like, I just don't have the stomach

506
00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:55,960
Speaker 1: for it. My skin is not big enough to deal

507
00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:57,879
Speaker 1: with all the bullshit that I'm going to have to

508
00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:00,399
Speaker 1: deal with if I put myself out there. Well, I

509
00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:02,439
Speaker 1: mean I've had some pretty rough things said about me,

510
00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:05,199
Speaker 1: particularly towards the end of my career and when I

511
00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:07,239
Speaker 1: was at E p A. And you know, you just

512
00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:10,840
Speaker 1: have to say to yourself, and most of the instances

513
00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:13,880
Speaker 1: that's their problem, not mine. I didn't read. You don't

514
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:16,160
Speaker 1: want to look at the cartoons. You want to know

515
00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:19,119
Speaker 1: who's shooting at you and why? And so you can

516
00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:21,600
Speaker 1: avoid it if possible, but you can't spend your time

517
00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:24,320
Speaker 1: thinking about it. It. It has gotten much uglier. It

518
00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:26,359
Speaker 1: is much worse. It's different than when I was running.

519
00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:29,560
Speaker 1: There's no question about it. And it's hard to disassociate yourself.

520
00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:32,320
Speaker 1: You will stay up at night and you will thank god.

521
00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:34,160
Speaker 1: Am I doing that bad a job? Am I really

522
00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:37,640
Speaker 1: that awful a person? You have nights like that? Oh? Yes,

523
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:41,160
Speaker 1: oh yes, everybody does, I think. But again, if you

524
00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:43,120
Speaker 1: if you care more about what you're doing, and if

525
00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:45,120
Speaker 1: you think you're doing the right thing and you're doing

526
00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:47,440
Speaker 1: it in the best way, you know how, you just

527
00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:50,760
Speaker 1: have to have faith in that right. No social media

528
00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:53,040
Speaker 1: back then, and I think many people say, we won't

529
00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:55,760
Speaker 1: wouldn't want to do it to our families, We wouldn't

530
00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:57,520
Speaker 1: want to do it to our spouse. You have to

531
00:28:57,520 --> 00:28:59,760
Speaker 1: sit down and have a long conversation with them about

532
00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:02,080
Speaker 1: what going to be like and what you could possibly face.

533
00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:05,960
Speaker 1: So you left the governorship about a year early to

534
00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:10,640
Speaker 1: become EPA administrator under your friend, President George W. Bush Um.

535
00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:12,760
Speaker 1: One of my favorite stories in preparing for this is

536
00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:17,080
Speaker 1: that you actually gave him his dog Barney right, who

537
00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:19,800
Speaker 1: was the actually paid for him in the end, because

538
00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:22,840
Speaker 1: once he got elected, Yes, he was required to, so

539
00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:25,600
Speaker 1: he paid me. That's very funny. But that was probably

540
00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:28,120
Speaker 1: the toughest position you ever held, if I had to guess,

541
00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:30,600
Speaker 1: in your political life, because you were really caught in

542
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:34,920
Speaker 1: the crossfire between environmentalists who expected more of you on

543
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:37,080
Speaker 1: the one hand, and a lot of your colleagues in

544
00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:40,160
Speaker 1: the Bush administration who expected, I guess less of you,

545
00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:45,200
Speaker 1: and the Democrats who didn't want anything, particularly Vice President Cheney,

546
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:48,400
Speaker 1: who would have fundamentally different view of environmental protection. Can

547
00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:51,400
Speaker 1: you tell us what that experience was like, what the

548
00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:53,400
Speaker 1: conflicts were about, because I think a lot of them

549
00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:56,040
Speaker 1: are very relevant today. I mean it was it was tough.

550
00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:58,800
Speaker 1: I expected to have the environmentalists and the Democrats on

551
00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:00,800
Speaker 1: the other side. I didn't expect to have to do

552
00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:03,320
Speaker 1: the three sixty, not get the kind of support from

553
00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:05,880
Speaker 1: the administration I was hoping for because the President I

554
00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:08,840
Speaker 1: were on the same page most of the time, but um,

555
00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:11,560
Speaker 1: the vice president relations with the President before you took

556
00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:13,720
Speaker 1: the job to make sure you're aligned on these issues.

557
00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:17,040
Speaker 1: I did, and we were, and you know, you'd go

558
00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:19,880
Speaker 1: in and I would go in and meet with them

559
00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:22,640
Speaker 1: and we were on the same page. And then I'd

560
00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:24,520
Speaker 1: leave to go back to the office, and I guess

561
00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:26,800
Speaker 1: the Vice President would come in and things would change,

562
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:31,920
Speaker 1: and that was not not fun. So you and uh,

563
00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:36,440
Speaker 1: you big fan of Dick Cheney, we're not close personal buddies.

564
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:38,120
Speaker 1: I mean, I've known him for a long time because

565
00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:40,080
Speaker 1: when I first went down to Washington, it was to

566
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:42,400
Speaker 1: work with for Don Rumsfeld as when he was a

567
00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:45,600
Speaker 1: congressman going over to the Office of Economic Opportunity, and

568
00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:47,960
Speaker 1: he and Dick Cheney were good friends. And so I've

569
00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:52,640
Speaker 1: met the Vice President several times and he actually, ironically enough,

570
00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:56,080
Speaker 1: as a very close friend of my son's father in law. UM.

571
00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:58,920
Speaker 1: And so I get reports back. Apparently he said there's

572
00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:01,000
Speaker 1: nothing wrong with me that the year Wyoming wouldn't cure.

573
00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:06,640
Speaker 1: And he said that about you, you'd like carbon I

574
00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:08,080
Speaker 1: don't know. I said, it's not a lot of time

575
00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:11,120
Speaker 1: backpacked in the wind River Mountains, I mean, not a

576
00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:14,880
Speaker 1: pack trip, not backpack. And when you resign as EPA

577
00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:17,960
Speaker 1: administrator about two and a half years later, you said

578
00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:20,080
Speaker 1: at the time that it was for personal reasons, but

579
00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:22,720
Speaker 1: that wasn't accurate. No, it was. I mean I never

580
00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:25,120
Speaker 1: took more than a month to month lease on the apartment.

581
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:28,240
Speaker 1: E p A was not where I had really wanted

582
00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:31,000
Speaker 1: to go. I cared deeply about the environment, but it's

583
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:34,200
Speaker 1: a regulatory agency, and with a regulatory agency, you just

584
00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:37,320
Speaker 1: don't have a lot of discretion or leeway to make

585
00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:40,200
Speaker 1: to be creative and how you solve problems and make

586
00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:42,920
Speaker 1: a difference. So and John and I really did hate

587
00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:46,160
Speaker 1: the bifurcated marriage. Um. I hated getting on that train

588
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:48,360
Speaker 1: on Sunday nights because he had to stay in New

589
00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:52,280
Speaker 1: Jersey for his business. But the specific incident that triggered

590
00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:55,640
Speaker 1: the time of my leaving was about the Clean Air Act.

591
00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:59,200
Speaker 1: As a cabinet member, you weren't elected to anything. It

592
00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:02,680
Speaker 1: was the president of vice president were elected, and you

593
00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:05,560
Speaker 1: your job is to give them your best advice and

594
00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:08,840
Speaker 1: when they make a final decision, you salute and say

595
00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:12,560
Speaker 1: yes or you say And my feeling was that they

596
00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:15,800
Speaker 1: had a right to have an administrator who could sign

597
00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:17,720
Speaker 1: that order in good conscience and carry it out, and

598
00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:19,640
Speaker 1: I couldn't. I just didn't think it was right. And

599
00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:22,000
Speaker 1: in fact, they went to court and it was taken

600
00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:24,720
Speaker 1: to Court, which everything E p A does is and

601
00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:29,840
Speaker 1: they lost because the numbers just weren't incredible. See, you

602
00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:33,120
Speaker 1: have no regrets about resigning. You feel like you did

603
00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:36,560
Speaker 1: the right now. None. It was the right time and

604
00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:38,720
Speaker 1: the right thing. And i'd gotten to the point where

605
00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:41,320
Speaker 1: I think that my pushing back on that for as

606
00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:43,680
Speaker 1: long as I did, had undermined my ability to get

607
00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:46,200
Speaker 1: some other things done too. Up until that point, I mean,

608
00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:48,600
Speaker 1: we got and it's still amazingly enough. And this is

609
00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:53,120
Speaker 1: how dysfunctional Congress has been. The last piece of major

610
00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:57,400
Speaker 1: environmental registered legislation that was passed was in two thousand

611
00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:00,520
Speaker 1: and two brown Field's redevelopment, which is thing we got

612
00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:02,160
Speaker 1: done because I've done it in New Jersey and we

613
00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:04,600
Speaker 1: wrote that, wrote it for the Congress and we got

614
00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:07,480
Speaker 1: it through. They hadn't done anything since nineteen nine. That

615
00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:09,480
Speaker 1: was the first one since nineteen ninety and they've done

616
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:13,239
Speaker 1: nothing subsequently. And it's not that the environment doesn't need help. Well,

617
00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:17,040
Speaker 1: let's talk about that, Brian, go ahead. Environment being help.

618
00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:21,360
Speaker 1: According to the data, is another record setting year in

619
00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:25,120
Speaker 1: a bad way. The hottest ever recorded Arctic ice pack

620
00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:29,040
Speaker 1: is a record lows sea levels in South Florida. I

621
00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:31,120
Speaker 1: just found this out and I'm sort of astonished by it.

622
00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:34,239
Speaker 1: Sea levels in South Florida have risen three and a

623
00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:37,760
Speaker 1: half inches since an Inconvenient Truth came out in two

624
00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:44,040
Speaker 1: thousand six, even threatening more Lago potentially potentially um Where

625
00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:48,680
Speaker 1: are we on climate? Are there green shoots or glimmers

626
00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:51,880
Speaker 1: of hope or is this pretty much a tragedy waiting

627
00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:55,400
Speaker 1: to happen? Well, I mean the climate is changing, There's

628
00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:57,720
Speaker 1: no two ways about it, and every data point that

629
00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:00,600
Speaker 1: we see just reaffirms the speed with which it's happening

630
00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:03,960
Speaker 1: or increases the concern about the speed. I just finished

631
00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:05,880
Speaker 1: co chairing a test force with ac Counts on Foreign

632
00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:08,840
Speaker 1: relations on Arctic policy and the Arctic. We are an

633
00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:11,400
Speaker 1: Arctic nation to begin with, and the Arctic is is

634
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:13,640
Speaker 1: worming at twice the rate of the rest of the planet,

635
00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:15,440
Speaker 1: and it is the canary in the coal mine. You

636
00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:19,280
Speaker 1: already have three or four native villages that have moved,

637
00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:22,000
Speaker 1: another thirty some other are going to have to move,

638
00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:24,600
Speaker 1: and you run it, Okay, where do you put them?

639
00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:26,200
Speaker 1: What do you do? How do you move? Who do

640
00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:27,640
Speaker 1: you move? Do you move the house first, or do

641
00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:30,040
Speaker 1: you move the church or the hospital or the grocery store,

642
00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:31,719
Speaker 1: and how do you get groceries to them in the

643
00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:34,759
Speaker 1: middle of nowhere. That's happening all around the world. Um

644
00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:38,480
Speaker 1: Vana Wattu and islands in the Pacific, They're not gonna

645
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:40,640
Speaker 1: be around. Who takes them? Are they still part of

646
00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:44,120
Speaker 1: the United Nations? Who are those people? And also coastal

647
00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:46,719
Speaker 1: cities here in the United States, not just Miami, but

648
00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:53,480
Speaker 1: you know what this arctic melting portends for millions from

649
00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:56,200
Speaker 1: people in this country. Not to be totally self centered

650
00:34:56,239 --> 00:34:59,400
Speaker 1: and ward looking, but I mean it's just a matter

651
00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:04,440
Speaker 1: of decades before they're going to be severely and absolutely

652
00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:07,520
Speaker 1: well superstarm Sandy. You saw the kind of damage we've

653
00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:09,560
Speaker 1: got for that. Well, as the sea level rises, that

654
00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:12,279
Speaker 1: sort of damage with the tides is going to come

655
00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:15,080
Speaker 1: further and further, intrude further and further into the land,

656
00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:18,440
Speaker 1: and that's going to pollute waterways. It's I mean, it's

657
00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:23,200
Speaker 1: a it's it's happening. Humans don't cause it. Period the end.

658
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:26,719
Speaker 1: We are exacerbating a natural trend. The Earth has been

659
00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:29,520
Speaker 1: changing since the Earth was formed, and I think environmentalists

660
00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:33,400
Speaker 1: hurt themselves a lot by being so definitive that humans

661
00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:36,080
Speaker 1: cause it, because that just is such a wide opening

662
00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:39,680
Speaker 1: for the naysayers. The really interesting thing is that we

663
00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:43,239
Speaker 1: have proven time and again over decades that we can

664
00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:46,600
Speaker 1: protect the environment and have a healthy, growing economy at

665
00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:48,920
Speaker 1: the same time. It's not an either or I know.

666
00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:51,759
Speaker 1: But why do so many people see it as such

667
00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:55,800
Speaker 1: a black and white issue. Well because, I I believe

668
00:35:56,000 --> 00:36:01,279
Speaker 1: because environmental regulation are easy to hate because when you

669
00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:04,359
Speaker 1: do it, you're causing people to spend money or change

670
00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:06,359
Speaker 1: behavior for a problem they may not see or they

671
00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:09,200
Speaker 1: may not think is real, and that gets a mad

672
00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:11,799
Speaker 1: and frankly, there have been instances of overreach, there's no

673
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:14,120
Speaker 1: question about it. And you have layers because it's not

674
00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:17,239
Speaker 1: just the Environmental Protection Agency that says that sets them.

675
00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:20,359
Speaker 1: Your Department of Interior does some. You've got local, and

676
00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:23,759
Speaker 1: you've got state and regulations, and it gets to be

677
00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:26,759
Speaker 1: a bureaucratic nightmare. I get it. But the point being

678
00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:31,000
Speaker 1: what people don't realize is two thousand thirteen is the

679
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:35,080
Speaker 1: most recent year for which we have full statistics, people

680
00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:38,960
Speaker 1: in this country died from dirty airborne related causes. That's

681
00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:41,920
Speaker 1: almost three times as many people who died from auto

682
00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:45,120
Speaker 1: accidents on our highways that year, and yet we spend

683
00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:47,880
Speaker 1: so much time talking about how we can improve safety

684
00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:50,440
Speaker 1: on our highways and in our cars, and yet we

685
00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:53,960
Speaker 1: have this problem all around us. In many ways, however,

686
00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:56,920
Speaker 1: we're it's a result of it's our own problem, because

687
00:36:56,920 --> 00:36:59,640
Speaker 1: we have cleaned up the air, and the water is clean, pure,

688
00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:02,640
Speaker 1: and the land is better protected, and so people don't

689
00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:04,320
Speaker 1: think it's a real problem. And yet all of a

690
00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:06,360
Speaker 1: sudden they're hearing from government they've got to do something

691
00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:08,840
Speaker 1: that's going to cost some money. And if your political

692
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:12,080
Speaker 1: philosophy depends on the idea that government intervention in the

693
00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:16,719
Speaker 1: economy is bad, and yeah, it's hard to argue for

694
00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:20,759
Speaker 1: it to confront a threat that isn't immediately on the

695
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:23,480
Speaker 1: horizon or attacking us like isis right? Why do you

696
00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:27,560
Speaker 1: why are you such a loan voice alan Republican voice

697
00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:30,400
Speaker 1: on this issue. Well, they're actually a number of them,

698
00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:32,440
Speaker 1: but I'm not in office and I'm not running for office,

699
00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:35,000
Speaker 1: so it's easier. But so it's too scary to to

700
00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:37,400
Speaker 1: talk about this if you're a Republican because you'll be

701
00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:39,960
Speaker 1: outflanked on the right by people who say it's going

702
00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:42,719
Speaker 1: to hurt the economy, it's right, and you'll have big

703
00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:45,040
Speaker 1: groups like the Koch brothers who will come after you

704
00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:48,000
Speaker 1: in a primary. Um. You know the naysayers, but you've

705
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:50,279
Speaker 1: got Rex Jellerson, who is our Secretary of State, who

706
00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:52,759
Speaker 1: believes in climate change and thinks we should take some

707
00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:55,920
Speaker 1: action on it. I mean, there are some very prominent

708
00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:59,240
Speaker 1: Republican voices that do believe in it, and their religious

709
00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:03,480
Speaker 1: voices partake Chilly. There's a group of of all different

710
00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:05,520
Speaker 1: religions that have come together to say, you know, this

711
00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:08,080
Speaker 1: is sort of basic that says God gave us this.

712
00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:10,040
Speaker 1: If you want to believe that God gave everything, God

713
00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:12,319
Speaker 1: gave us this, and so we should protect it. Once

714
00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:16,240
Speaker 1: to your point, there are some prominent retired Republicans Jim Baker,

715
00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:20,319
Speaker 1: Hank Paulson, George Schultz, Marty Feldstein who are pushing for

716
00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:23,480
Speaker 1: a carbon tax to deal with this problem, and then

717
00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:26,239
Speaker 1: the revenue that would be gained by the tax would

718
00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:30,880
Speaker 1: be refunded to taxpayers. Mitt Romney tweeted favorably about this.

719
00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:33,319
Speaker 1: Do you think there's any hope of something like that

720
00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:36,880
Speaker 1: actually getting through Republican Congress. I think eventually, and we

721
00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:39,000
Speaker 1: don't know how much longer, we'll have a Republican Congress,

722
00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:41,000
Speaker 1: but I think eventually we will see something like that

723
00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:43,440
Speaker 1: because it's what makes the most sense, it's the most direct,

724
00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:45,800
Speaker 1: it will have the most direct impact because we respond

725
00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:50,319
Speaker 1: very well to financial incentives. And if people see that

726
00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:53,480
Speaker 1: they're paying more for something because it is a carbon

727
00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:56,560
Speaker 1: producer the way it was produced, or it's it's bad

728
00:38:56,600 --> 00:38:59,399
Speaker 1: on that scale, they'll make decisions. It's just the way

729
00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:02,640
Speaker 1: now that the energy star products, the ones that are

730
00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:06,480
Speaker 1: more energy efficient, have become very price competitive. People will

731
00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:10,160
Speaker 1: happily take something that tells them they're going to reduce

732
00:39:10,200 --> 00:39:14,000
Speaker 1: their carbon emissions and that they're going to reduce their

733
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:16,960
Speaker 1: electricity bills because it makes sense to them, and they'll

734
00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:20,040
Speaker 1: do it, and that's helping. You wrote a piece in

735
00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:23,000
Speaker 1: the Washington Post last December and you said I was

736
00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:26,239
Speaker 1: epa administrator advice for the next one, don't walk back

737
00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:32,560
Speaker 1: environmental progress. What kind of grade would you give Administrator

738
00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:36,759
Speaker 1: Pruett at this juncture? Well, I mean, in fairness to

739
00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:39,400
Speaker 1: Scott Pruett, he does what the President tells him to do,

740
00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:42,239
Speaker 1: although from his past history it would seem he's very

741
00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:45,160
Speaker 1: much in sync with it. And what they've been doing

742
00:39:45,239 --> 00:39:48,359
Speaker 1: is trying to unravel regulations. The good news is they've

743
00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:50,920
Speaker 1: been so slow in making appointments that they haven't been

744
00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:52,959
Speaker 1: able to get it everything that they want to roll back.

745
00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:56,279
Speaker 1: Are there regulations that have outlived their usefulness? Are their

746
00:39:56,320 --> 00:40:01,320
Speaker 1: regulations that where the new technology has super seated them, Yes,

747
00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:04,000
Speaker 1: and we should be looking for those. But to say

748
00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:06,680
Speaker 1: automatically you're never going to have another regulation unless you

749
00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:10,080
Speaker 1: get rid of two others, it just makes no sense.

750
00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:13,440
Speaker 1: And yet that's the way they're proceeding. And so he

751
00:40:13,560 --> 00:40:15,400
Speaker 1: is doing what the president wants him to do. But

752
00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:17,160
Speaker 1: he was picked for that job because he was obviously

753
00:40:17,160 --> 00:40:20,000
Speaker 1: comfortable doing that, and I just have a real problem

754
00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:23,960
Speaker 1: with it. But this does contradict a Trump campaign promise.

755
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:27,680
Speaker 1: He said he would push for crystal clear, pure water

756
00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:33,200
Speaker 1: clean going to happen, And yet we read every day

757
00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:37,640
Speaker 1: about another regulation that either is being overturned or not

758
00:40:37,719 --> 00:40:40,920
Speaker 1: being enforced, to not being enforced. You can't just if

759
00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:43,919
Speaker 1: those that have gone final and I have the weight

760
00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:46,080
Speaker 1: of law, you can't just do away with them with

761
00:40:46,120 --> 00:40:48,200
Speaker 1: a magic Wand so that's the good news. It's just

762
00:40:48,200 --> 00:40:50,680
Speaker 1: going to take a while to do that. But no,

763
00:40:50,840 --> 00:40:53,799
Speaker 1: you're right, it's just as if the president says he

764
00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:58,919
Speaker 1: wants more coal, bring coal back, but on the other hand,

765
00:40:58,960 --> 00:41:03,120
Speaker 1: he wants to uh pushback on regulations that would make

766
00:41:03,160 --> 00:41:06,280
Speaker 1: it more difficult to extract oil and gas. And frankly,

767
00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:10,000
Speaker 1: the reason coal is fading in this country is not

768
00:41:10,120 --> 00:41:15,319
Speaker 1: because of environmental regulations, so because of economics. Yet we

769
00:41:15,360 --> 00:41:17,759
Speaker 1: want to do more fracking. So you you know, you're

770
00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:20,239
Speaker 1: going to have a conflict here, but that's life. You

771
00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:22,839
Speaker 1: get these conflicts. But coal gets so much attention from

772
00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:25,280
Speaker 1: the president, from the media. And one of my favorite

773
00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:27,880
Speaker 1: stats actually is that the coal industry in this country

774
00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:32,920
Speaker 1: has about fifty thousand jobs. The solar industry alone created

775
00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:35,759
Speaker 1: like fifty thou jobs last year. And yet if you

776
00:41:35,760 --> 00:41:39,160
Speaker 1: were to read the papers or you know, watch newscasts,

777
00:41:39,239 --> 00:41:41,080
Speaker 1: you would think that that we're just a wash and

778
00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:43,520
Speaker 1: coal that is, you know, that has been taken away

779
00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:45,319
Speaker 1: and that now is being brought back. It's not really

780
00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:47,920
Speaker 1: a major factor in our economy. Well it was, I mean,

781
00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:51,040
Speaker 1: I think what we're going back it was better than

782
00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:54,040
Speaker 1: fifty of our energy mix. Now it's down in the

783
00:41:54,080 --> 00:41:57,040
Speaker 1: forties and and dropping. But again, the reason it's dropping

784
00:41:57,120 --> 00:42:00,640
Speaker 1: is not because of environmental regulations. It's dropping because of economics.

785
00:42:00,719 --> 00:42:03,200
Speaker 1: I have to bite on something you said earlier. You said,

786
00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:06,600
Speaker 1: if we still have a Republican Congress, the midterms are

787
00:42:06,719 --> 00:42:11,799
Speaker 1: fast approaching, what do you predict will happen. Well, they're

788
00:42:11,840 --> 00:42:14,560
Speaker 1: certainly gonna lose seats, I think, without question, and gonna

789
00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:16,920
Speaker 1: lose seats. How many is It is hard to say.

790
00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:20,520
Speaker 1: There a number of seats that Democrats are saying are

791
00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:22,600
Speaker 1: more in play than they've ever been a couple of

792
00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:25,200
Speaker 1: New Jersey. At the end of the day, looking at

793
00:42:25,239 --> 00:42:28,160
Speaker 1: those districts, I'm not so sure that there there'll be

794
00:42:28,200 --> 00:42:31,360
Speaker 1: tighter races, there will be more costly racism, They'll be closer.

795
00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:34,320
Speaker 1: I think there is a possibility that at least it

796
00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:36,960
Speaker 1: will get to the point where Republicans will probably have

797
00:42:37,080 --> 00:42:39,759
Speaker 1: to work with some Democrats in order to get things done.

798
00:42:39,760 --> 00:42:41,959
Speaker 1: It won't be quite as free of reign as they've

799
00:42:42,080 --> 00:42:46,359
Speaker 1: as they've had. I have a question about New Jersey.

800
00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:48,480
Speaker 1: Do you have to have Christie in your name to

801
00:42:48,520 --> 00:42:54,920
Speaker 1: be governor? Because Chris Christie obviously he's had a go

802
00:42:55,080 --> 00:43:00,000
Speaker 1: of it as they say, um that down, Yes, he has,

803
00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:04,400
Speaker 1: So how would you assess his his performance as governor?

804
00:43:04,600 --> 00:43:07,839
Speaker 1: And the way he spent his second term. I think,

805
00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:10,640
Speaker 1: as I look back on it, he did some really

806
00:43:10,680 --> 00:43:12,520
Speaker 1: good things in the beginning. I mean, he was able

807
00:43:12,560 --> 00:43:15,319
Speaker 1: to get things done with the legislature, he worked with them,

808
00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:17,919
Speaker 1: he showed himself as a real leader, and I think

809
00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:20,160
Speaker 1: what happened was he started to focus on the next

810
00:43:20,239 --> 00:43:24,000
Speaker 1: job and spent more time focusing on that than he

811
00:43:24,040 --> 00:43:26,160
Speaker 1: did on New Jersey. Although he will say and he

812
00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:29,680
Speaker 1: is trying to move things through now and he's got

813
00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:33,160
Speaker 1: his big emphasis on drugs and drug addiction, and I

814
00:43:33,200 --> 00:43:38,040
Speaker 1: think that's that's appropriate and good. But um, I think

815
00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:41,160
Speaker 1: he got himself caught up in as happens to people

816
00:43:41,239 --> 00:43:43,200
Speaker 1: from time to time, when you everybody around you was

817
00:43:43,239 --> 00:43:47,719
Speaker 1: telling you you are the next presidential material, and that

818
00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:50,319
Speaker 1: happens to people. It happened. It was interesting when I

819
00:43:50,400 --> 00:43:53,279
Speaker 1: ran for the United States Senate. That's what happened to

820
00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:57,120
Speaker 1: Bill Bradley, because he was a head. He is a

821
00:43:57,239 --> 00:44:00,680
Speaker 1: very bright, very decent guy, and I think his problem

822
00:44:00,719 --> 00:44:02,640
Speaker 1: was he just was so convinced he was going to

823
00:44:02,680 --> 00:44:04,880
Speaker 1: be re elected because he had a walk on his

824
00:44:04,920 --> 00:44:09,080
Speaker 1: first reelect sixteen percentage points and was right widely touted

825
00:44:09,120 --> 00:44:13,080
Speaker 1: because of his background as a Rhodes scholar, Princeton graduate,

826
00:44:13,120 --> 00:44:16,400
Speaker 1: New York nick basketball player, Olympic basketball player, and a

827
00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:19,200
Speaker 1: rewriter of the tax code, that he was their next

828
00:44:19,239 --> 00:44:23,400
Speaker 1: presidential candidate, potentially that he didn't pay attention to the

829
00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:26,239
Speaker 1: issues in New Jersey, He just forgot about them. Were

830
00:44:26,239 --> 00:44:29,040
Speaker 1: you surprised that Chris Christie was so all in for

831
00:44:29,120 --> 00:44:33,640
Speaker 1: Donald Trump and it stayed so all in No once

832
00:44:33,680 --> 00:44:36,160
Speaker 1: he once he made the decision, he had to stay

833
00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:38,040
Speaker 1: all in it, and I think he believed it. I mean,

834
00:44:38,160 --> 00:44:41,800
Speaker 1: I think he believes in Donald Trump um or was

835
00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:46,080
Speaker 1: going to get something the emphasis or was going to

836
00:44:46,200 --> 00:44:49,319
Speaker 1: get something right well as part of being there as

837
00:44:49,360 --> 00:44:51,680
Speaker 1: an early supporter, that's what happens, and a lot of

838
00:44:51,680 --> 00:44:53,600
Speaker 1: people who decide this is going to be the winner,

839
00:44:53,600 --> 00:44:55,840
Speaker 1: and I want to be with them. And if I

840
00:44:55,880 --> 00:44:58,640
Speaker 1: were Chris Christie, I would be rip ship right now.

841
00:44:58,920 --> 00:45:01,160
Speaker 1: I don't think he's happy. I don't think he's happy.

842
00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:04,400
Speaker 1: You know, it's like Chris Christie about this at all. No.

843
00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:07,839
Speaker 1: I really haven't talked to him since we had the

844
00:45:07,880 --> 00:45:09,719
Speaker 1: Super Bowl New Jersey. I was kind of the last

845
00:45:09,760 --> 00:45:12,399
Speaker 1: time just as Bridge Gate was was breaking and had

846
00:45:12,400 --> 00:45:15,320
Speaker 1: a conversation with about that, how do you think that happened?

847
00:45:16,120 --> 00:45:19,279
Speaker 1: And he was an atmosphere that was created and a

848
00:45:19,360 --> 00:45:24,160
Speaker 1: feeling that I mean, not unlike Donald Trump, Chris has

849
00:45:24,200 --> 00:45:27,319
Speaker 1: he knows who's your friend and who isn't and you

850
00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:32,000
Speaker 1: have to be kind or you're not. And he remembers that,

851
00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:36,480
Speaker 1: and I think that translated, well, that's what I'm saying.

852
00:45:36,480 --> 00:45:38,919
Speaker 1: I don't think that there are some certain parallels there.

853
00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:43,040
Speaker 1: But he knows government, He's known government. He as I say,

854
00:45:43,200 --> 00:45:45,399
Speaker 1: he started off in his first term I thought very

855
00:45:45,480 --> 00:45:49,640
Speaker 1: very well and has kind of moved away from the States,

856
00:45:49,640 --> 00:45:51,960
Speaker 1: spent so much time out of it, working hard for

857
00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:55,160
Speaker 1: other Republican governors, raising money like nobody'd ever seen before

858
00:45:55,320 --> 00:45:58,480
Speaker 1: the r G a Um, he was doing that job,

859
00:45:58,520 --> 00:46:00,799
Speaker 1: but he still had That's why was telling young people,

860
00:46:00,840 --> 00:46:03,239
Speaker 1: you know, do the job you're in. The next job

861
00:46:03,239 --> 00:46:05,279
Speaker 1: will take care of itself. But if you spent your

862
00:46:05,440 --> 00:46:07,880
Speaker 1: entire time looking at planning on this is what I'm

863
00:46:07,880 --> 00:46:10,760
Speaker 1: gonna do next, it's not going to happen. I agree.

864
00:46:10,760 --> 00:46:16,160
Speaker 1: I just tell young people the same thing because I

865
00:46:16,160 --> 00:46:18,799
Speaker 1: think it's important because if you just are looking at

866
00:46:18,840 --> 00:46:21,520
Speaker 1: the horizon, you're not focused on the job at hand,

867
00:46:21,920 --> 00:46:24,520
Speaker 1: you end up doing a terrible job and then you

868
00:46:25,040 --> 00:46:28,000
Speaker 1: run your chances of advancement. But the thing about Chris

869
00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:30,319
Speaker 1: Christy people also have to remember is he really is

870
00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:33,160
Speaker 1: a family person. I mean, he was wonderful to me

871
00:46:33,239 --> 00:46:36,280
Speaker 1: when John was in the hospital and you know, offered

872
00:46:36,320 --> 00:46:37,960
Speaker 1: to send the troopers to come pick me up and

873
00:46:38,120 --> 00:46:39,960
Speaker 1: if I wanted to get away for because we were

874
00:46:40,520 --> 00:46:43,960
Speaker 1: there for so long, for twelve days, and he was

875
00:46:44,120 --> 00:46:46,920
Speaker 1: very thoughtful that way. He can be enormously thoughtful as well.

876
00:46:47,280 --> 00:46:50,239
Speaker 1: It's too bad to see what's happened that he got

877
00:46:50,280 --> 00:46:54,920
Speaker 1: so holy in with Trump and Trump treated him so badly.

878
00:46:55,080 --> 00:46:58,000
Speaker 1: I mean, he just dismissed him and made him like,

879
00:46:58,080 --> 00:47:00,480
Speaker 1: go get his hamburgers, and it was it made it

880
00:47:00,480 --> 00:47:05,280
Speaker 1: seem that way, whether he actually did or not exactly,

881
00:47:05,360 --> 00:47:09,520
Speaker 1: that was just awful. And when he threw a support

882
00:47:09,640 --> 00:47:12,279
Speaker 1: behind Donald Trump, I don't think he expected he would

883
00:47:12,280 --> 00:47:15,239
Speaker 1: be in charge of opioid addiction, which I guess hoping

884
00:47:15,239 --> 00:47:17,799
Speaker 1: for much higher than I think Jared Kushner. That's his job,

885
00:47:17,880 --> 00:47:22,280
Speaker 1: isn't it. Well, everything everything is. When he's not solving

886
00:47:22,280 --> 00:47:24,480
Speaker 1: the Middle East and reforming the government, he's going to

887
00:47:24,520 --> 00:47:31,560
Speaker 1: fix opiot to addiction anyway, Happy to know there's a

888
00:47:31,600 --> 00:47:36,640
Speaker 1: superman for you, right there is the rising young superman. Well, um,

889
00:47:36,680 --> 00:47:39,040
Speaker 1: you mentioned John being in the hospital and you lost

890
00:47:39,080 --> 00:47:43,120
Speaker 1: your husband, I know two years ago, Christie, and I

891
00:47:43,160 --> 00:47:46,160
Speaker 1: think people would like to know a how you're doing

892
00:47:46,440 --> 00:47:49,959
Speaker 1: and be sort of what you're really spending your time

893
00:47:50,000 --> 00:47:53,440
Speaker 1: on today. Well, I'm doing. I still have a business.

894
00:47:53,520 --> 00:47:55,960
Speaker 1: We do energy and environmental consulting, and I'm on a

895
00:47:56,000 --> 00:47:59,399
Speaker 1: bunch of boards some one corporate, aging off the ones

896
00:47:59,440 --> 00:48:00,840
Speaker 1: that pay me and going on to the ones that

897
00:48:00,920 --> 00:48:03,279
Speaker 1: want me to pay them. Unfortunately, it's a long way

898
00:48:03,320 --> 00:48:05,359
Speaker 1: around now. As you get older, you need the ones

899
00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:08,680
Speaker 1: that pay you. Um, but I've as long as I

900
00:48:08,680 --> 00:48:11,600
Speaker 1: stay involved in policy, I'm happy. And as for getting on,

901
00:48:11,680 --> 00:48:14,279
Speaker 1: you just do. I mean, you know, it's just it's

902
00:48:14,280 --> 00:48:17,800
Speaker 1: different for everybody and and you just have to decide

903
00:48:18,520 --> 00:48:21,799
Speaker 1: this is the new reality. There's no alternative here, there's

904
00:48:21,800 --> 00:48:24,200
Speaker 1: no coming back from that. So you just learned to

905
00:48:24,680 --> 00:48:26,720
Speaker 1: deal with it. How many years were you all married?

906
00:48:28,400 --> 00:48:31,680
Speaker 1: That's that's a big, big adjustment. That's a big adjustment.

907
00:48:31,719 --> 00:48:33,880
Speaker 1: It was I think the second year. I'm finding a

908
00:48:33,880 --> 00:48:35,799
Speaker 1: second year harder than the first because I think in

909
00:48:35,840 --> 00:48:38,480
Speaker 1: the second year I finally realizing, no, there is no

910
00:48:38,560 --> 00:48:40,759
Speaker 1: plan big, there is no Uh, it's not just a

911
00:48:40,760 --> 00:48:43,839
Speaker 1: long trip. Um, you know, it's a permanent thing, and

912
00:48:43,920 --> 00:48:47,080
Speaker 1: so you get on. But as I say, I've selling

913
00:48:47,160 --> 00:48:48,960
Speaker 1: my house in Florida and bought a house out in

914
00:48:49,000 --> 00:48:52,560
Speaker 1: Arizona for the winters. And uh, we're doing a lot

915
00:48:52,560 --> 00:48:54,000
Speaker 1: of things with the farm, and the kids have been

916
00:48:54,040 --> 00:48:59,120
Speaker 1: just great and the grandchildren. You're starting as at the farm,

917
00:48:59,640 --> 00:49:02,799
Speaker 1: starting a c S A provenance farms and what are

918
00:49:02,800 --> 00:49:05,520
Speaker 1: you growing? Everything? You name it, We're gonna have it.

919
00:49:06,320 --> 00:49:08,239
Speaker 1: We've got every kind of vegetable and they've got a

920
00:49:08,800 --> 00:49:11,239
Speaker 1: for twenty two weeks you can get if you live

921
00:49:11,320 --> 00:49:15,640
Speaker 1: in our area. They deliver to your door enough for

922
00:49:15,680 --> 00:49:18,360
Speaker 1: a family four every week for twenty two weeks, or

923
00:49:18,440 --> 00:49:20,800
Speaker 1: you can pick. So you're sort of still delivering for

924
00:49:20,880 --> 00:49:26,040
Speaker 1: the people of farmers delivering. We're trying. You're really bad

925
00:49:27,440 --> 00:49:29,880
Speaker 1: a stretch. I thought that was good. I think you

926
00:49:29,920 --> 00:49:34,680
Speaker 1: should be a consultant, and I thought it was clever. Well,

927
00:49:34,840 --> 00:49:36,920
Speaker 1: it's it's such a pleasure to talk to you. I've

928
00:49:36,960 --> 00:49:40,960
Speaker 1: always admired you, and um, it's really interesting to get

929
00:49:41,040 --> 00:49:43,840
Speaker 1: your take on the state of the country and the

930
00:49:43,920 --> 00:49:47,520
Speaker 1: state of the world. Thank you so much. Thank you Christy,

931
00:49:48,360 --> 00:49:53,160
Speaker 1: good to see you as always. A big thank you

932
00:49:53,320 --> 00:49:56,800
Speaker 1: to our producer Gianna Palmer and to our sound engineer

933
00:49:56,920 --> 00:50:00,200
Speaker 1: Jared O'Connell. Thanks also to our social media may Vin

934
00:50:00,520 --> 00:50:03,840
Speaker 1: Alison Bresnik, to Emily Beana for her part in producing

935
00:50:03,920 --> 00:50:08,040
Speaker 1: this show, and to Nora Richie for additional editorial assistance.

936
00:50:08,400 --> 00:50:11,719
Speaker 1: And Mark Phillips whoever you are, wherever you are at

937
00:50:11,800 --> 00:50:13,560
Speaker 1: some point I want to meet Mark too. I want

938
00:50:13,640 --> 00:50:15,800
Speaker 1: him to play it my next party. Thank you for

939
00:50:15,880 --> 00:50:19,480
Speaker 1: our theme music. We still really appreciate it. Katie Kurik

940
00:50:19,560 --> 00:50:22,240
Speaker 1: and I are the executive producers this show. And remember

941
00:50:22,400 --> 00:50:24,320
Speaker 1: you can leave us a voicemail. Actually this was the

942
00:50:24,400 --> 00:50:27,520
Speaker 1: Katie part, but I'll still do it at nine two

943
00:50:27,560 --> 00:50:30,560
Speaker 1: to four, four, six, three seven or email us at

944
00:50:30,640 --> 00:50:35,239
Speaker 1: comments at correct podcast dot com somebody air hog exactly.

945
00:50:35,560 --> 00:50:38,120
Speaker 1: You can find me on social media at Katie Curic

946
00:50:38,200 --> 00:50:41,960
Speaker 1: at Twitter and Instagram. My Instagram feed is on fire

947
00:50:42,040 --> 00:50:43,879
Speaker 1: by the way. People check it out. You can see

948
00:50:43,920 --> 00:50:47,960
Speaker 1: me catching a major fish almost thirty pounds by the way,

949
00:50:48,040 --> 00:50:51,600
Speaker 1: recently in Mexico. Also, I'm Katie dot Curic on Snapchat

950
00:50:52,000 --> 00:50:55,680
Speaker 1: and Brian you are Goldsmith be on Twitter and Twitter only, folks,

951
00:50:55,719 --> 00:50:57,400
Speaker 1: when are you gonna have an Instagram account? Have an

952
00:50:57,400 --> 00:50:59,839
Speaker 1: Instagram account? It's only from my family and friends though,

953
00:51:00,040 --> 00:51:03,319
Speaker 1: Oh why do you want to want to apply to Uney?

954
00:51:03,400 --> 00:51:05,640
Speaker 1: I do because I want to see pictures of your

955
00:51:05,640 --> 00:51:09,080
Speaker 1: adorable baby Eliza, and I think probably the world would

956
00:51:09,120 --> 00:51:11,520
Speaker 1: like that as well. But we'll discuss this later. Meanwhile,

957
00:51:11,560 --> 00:51:14,320
Speaker 1: do you like our show, Please make your appreciation public

958
00:51:14,760 --> 00:51:17,799
Speaker 1: by rating and reviewing us on Apple Podcasts. And if

959
00:51:17,800 --> 00:51:19,839
Speaker 1: you don't like our show, just you know, sit back,

960
00:51:19,920 --> 00:51:23,600
Speaker 1: shut up, don't say anything, yeah, exactly, Please stifle yourself, Edith,

961
00:51:23,680 --> 00:51:27,960
Speaker 1: as Archie Bunker would say. Meanwhile, don't forget to subscribe

962
00:51:28,000 --> 00:51:30,759
Speaker 1: to our podcast as well, and we'll see you next time.