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Speaker 1: Body dots. But Joseph's gotten more. There's no other feeling

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Speaker 1: in the world like being young and being with your friends.

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Speaker 1: And I'm talking about that group of friends that you

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Speaker 1: hang out with, that group of friends like you get

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Speaker 1: excited if you're going to see them, you're going to

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Speaker 1: spend a protracted period of time together. And look, I

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Speaker 1: got to confess partying, all right. And look, man, there's

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Speaker 1: nothing wrong with partying, particularly when you're young, because I

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Speaker 1: can tell you when you get old, you ain't gonna

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Speaker 1: do it. You're gonna be in bed by eight. But

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Speaker 1: there was a young man who did go and hang

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Speaker 1: out with friends to enjoy I don't know, a long

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Speaker 1: weekend over a labor day. He went into it, probably

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Speaker 1: full of excitement, enthusiastic about seeing his buddies, fasten a

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Speaker 1: bottle around, riding on atv out in the country where

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Speaker 1: the only illumination is starlight. The only problem is is

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Speaker 1: at the end of that weekend, after all the partying

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Speaker 1: had been done, he had wound up dead on the

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Speaker 1: side of a road with more trauma than anyone can

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Speaker 1: possibly imagine. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is body bags.

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Speaker 1: Brother Dave we have got an update. We've got an

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Speaker 1: update today relatively to Yeah it is No Press Grove.

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Speaker 1: I didn't look. You know, it's one of these things

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Speaker 1: that kind of you know, we cover these cases and

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Speaker 1: I'd probably say that other people have the same and

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Speaker 1: this is god, this is going to sound so bad,

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Speaker 1: and I mean no disrespect, but such a volume of

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Speaker 1: data comes into you and I on a regular basis,

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Speaker 1: these cases that otherwise would just pound you in the

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Speaker 1: face like a sledgehammer because other stuff trumps that data

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Speaker 1: along the way. These cases are forgotten and day. No

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Speaker 1: Press Grove's case is the stuff of horror movies. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it is an absolute terror show.

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Speaker 2: It is. It's every parent's worst nightmare for your young adult.

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Speaker 2: You know, it's one of those things when our kids

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Speaker 2: are young, before they start driving, we worry about them,

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Speaker 2: their friends, who they're playing with, who they're hanging out with.

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Speaker 2: Once they start driving, though, it becomes a different kind

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Speaker 2: of fear, a different kind of concern that you have

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Speaker 2: for your children when they're out. After they graduate school

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Speaker 2: from high school, there's another level. It's a different kind

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Speaker 2: of worry now because you know they're going to do

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Speaker 2: things that young adults. Do you mentioned partying? Look, I

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Speaker 2: did it. I encouraged my children when they became young

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Speaker 2: adults to be wise. I think with my kids is

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Speaker 2: I've already done it. You guys don't have to. I'll

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Speaker 2: tell you what. The end result of all of it is.

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Speaker 2: You end up in handcuffs and jail wondering where you know,

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Speaker 2: where is my shirt? And you know, well, you.

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Speaker 1: Know, Dave. The problem is is that most kids don't

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Speaker 1: believe us, and they're going to want their own empirical

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Speaker 1: proof of this. The speculation. You know, they see the speculation.

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Speaker 1: They don't see it because none of them ever imagine

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Speaker 1: us as young and partying. All right, So they have

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Speaker 1: to go out and you sit there and you're shaking

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Speaker 1: your heads like I wouldn't do that.

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Speaker 2: If I was you.

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Speaker 1: I've already told you. But you know, it's part of

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Speaker 1: the carelessness of youth. I think a lot of that.

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Speaker 1: There's growth that comes out of it. I think there's

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Speaker 1: also a lesson to be learned about what to do

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Speaker 1: and what not to do. Any toms when you experience that.

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Speaker 2: In the noahpress Grove story, yeah, we actually have both

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Speaker 2: what to do and what not to do. And the

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Speaker 2: reason we're doing this is because there has been some movement.

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Speaker 2: You know, back in June, a lawsuit was filed by

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Speaker 2: the family of Noah press Grove. It was filed without

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Speaker 2: a lot of fanfare, mainly because you mentioned it right

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Speaker 2: at the beginning. We're hit with so many different stories.

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Speaker 2: Unless there's something that really moves that rock up the hill,

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Speaker 2: it's not going to gain the attraction it needs. But

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Speaker 2: after it was filed, you and I did an update,

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Speaker 2: and now we've got that, we actually have an update

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Speaker 2: to go along with that lawsuit. But before we do that, Joe,

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Speaker 2: you and I took a really good look at the injuries.

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Speaker 2: I actually, no, you took a really good look at them.

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Speaker 2: I was so shocked at what we found out when

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Speaker 2: this story came to us from one of y'all, a

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Speaker 2: listener of the show who actually reached out and said, hey,

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Speaker 2: have you guys covered this yet, And we're like, no,

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Speaker 2: let me find out more.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, that's oh my goodness. I just remembered that

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Speaker 1: that did come to us this way. Yeah, I sure did.

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Speaker 2: And the thing is it goes back to again, out

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Speaker 2: of one hundred stories that deserve coverage, to get it

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Speaker 2: and there is no rhyme or reason to it. There

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Speaker 2: really isn't. And this is one of those stories that

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Speaker 2: I think the shock value of the what this young

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Speaker 2: man had to have endured is not easily explained as

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Speaker 2: saying he was walking down the road and it was

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Speaker 2: a hit and run, because that's the explanation we've heard

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Speaker 2: of a possible way that he could have ended up

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Speaker 2: dead in this particular way. But Joe I looked at

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Speaker 2: this list of injuries, and there are certain things that

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Speaker 2: happened to Noah press Grove and his body that even

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Speaker 2: after looking down this list and reading reports and everything else,

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Speaker 2: I still cannot, for the life of me, think of

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Speaker 2: any way this could happen other then what appears to

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Speaker 2: me a gang beating, teaching somebody a lesson.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know this list, Okay, let me, let

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Speaker 1: me let me kind of add a caveat here with

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Speaker 1: with motor vehicle, and that's what has been alleged, okay,

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Speaker 1: along that it was a motor vehicle related event, perhaps

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Speaker 1: struck by a vehicle. We know that they're in the

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Speaker 1: story woven through it. There is an ATV, an all

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Speaker 1: train all terrain vehicle that has been wrecked. Okay, But

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Speaker 1: I think the main thing that was put forward is

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Speaker 1: that you've got a young man that's found deceased adjacent

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Speaker 1: are on the roadway. Uh, and he has got a

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Speaker 1: laundry list of injuries that you would think might be

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Speaker 1: related to a motor vehicle accent day. But the problem

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Speaker 1: is is that the motor vehicle accident that he would

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Speaker 1: have been involved in to generate this kind of trauma

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Speaker 1: I think would have been he would be seated in

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Speaker 1: the cabin of a car and pushed off a three

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Speaker 1: story building and impacted nose dived into the and even that,

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Speaker 1: you're still not going to get some of this stuff.

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Speaker 2: Really, Yeah, I hadn't thought about it that way. I've

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Speaker 2: just tried to look at it from Okay, if you

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Speaker 2: were hit by a car, he knows certain things that happen. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: because it does happen. People do get hit by a car, oh.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, all the time.

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Speaker 2: Very rarely do you get hit and then rolled under

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Speaker 2: hitting and going under all four tires. Usually you bounce

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Speaker 2: off a little bit, you know.

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Speaker 1: Well you do, but we do. But there's a category

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Speaker 1: for what's referred to as rollover injuries. And you know,

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Speaker 1: the circumstances. Actually, dave have to be just right for

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Speaker 1: that to happen. First Off, many times with a okay,

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Speaker 1: let's just say we have a pedestri it's called pedestrian

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Speaker 1: versus vehicle. Let's just say we do have a pedestrian

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Speaker 1: and you've got a vehicle operator. There's so many things

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Speaker 1: that come into play. First off, the height of the vehicle,

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Speaker 1: the total wheelbase of the vehicle, how you know kind

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Speaker 1: of wide the vehicle is from tire to tire, the speed,

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Speaker 1: reaction time on the part of the driver. I guess

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Speaker 1: you could also factor in there an awareness or lack

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Speaker 1: of awareness on the part of maybe the victim. Many times,

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Speaker 1: if you have a braking event where you've got a

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Speaker 1: pedestrian that's in the roadway, you'll see a response on

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Speaker 1: the part of a driver that has awareness that when

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Speaker 1: they press on the brakes. First off, you've got deceleration,

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Speaker 1: but also the nose of the vehicle will slightly drop down. Okay,

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Speaker 1: and when that nose of the vehicle drops down, if

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Speaker 1: it strikes someone in the legs or in the thigh

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Speaker 1: the hip, it can deflect them. I've had these cases

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Speaker 1: where people go over the top of the car into

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Speaker 1: the windshield. Actually, Dave, I actually had a case one

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Speaker 1: time where a guy came through a windshield and was

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Speaker 1: decapitated and the head wound up in the seat of

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Speaker 1: the vehicle adjacent to the operator of the vehicle. And

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Speaker 1: the guy that this happened to that was I just

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Speaker 1: had this memory. This was actually on Ien down in

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Speaker 1: New Orleans. The guy that was driving the vehicle, he

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Speaker 1: was headed to the New Orleans Airport, and he was Cabby,

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Speaker 1: and he didn't speak very good, very good English. He came,

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Speaker 1: the guy came through his windshield, decapitated him, and the

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Speaker 1: guy's head, if I remember correctly, either wound up in

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Speaker 1: the Cabby's lap or in the seat adjacent to him

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Speaker 1: in the torso was still in the vehicle kind of

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Speaker 1: hanging off to the side when we got there. It

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Speaker 1: was absolutely horrific. But it's almost unpredictable as to what's

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Speaker 1: going to happen with a body when they're struck by

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Speaker 1: a vehicle. But with Noah's Noah's injuries, Dave there, I

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Speaker 1: was looking at the list. By the way, y'all, Dave

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Speaker 1: does this incredible job of backing me up, and I

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Speaker 1: truly need a lot of backing up the list, Dave,

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Speaker 1: I did not remember. I did not remember how extensive

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Speaker 1: and exhaustive this list of insults were to Noah's body

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Speaker 1: until they were represented to me again.

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Speaker 2: Oh, you had time, because we've actually had time now

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Speaker 2: that we heard a number of different stories, and some

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Speaker 2: of them have kind of washed whitewashed it a little bit,

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Speaker 2: you know, as to what may have happened to know

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Speaker 2: Ah Press Grove. But when you get right down to it,

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Speaker 2: this is what happened to his body. This is this

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Speaker 2: is when he was found. Okay, all of this was

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Speaker 2: done when he was found just before six am after

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Speaker 2: a weekend of partying with friends. All Right, he has

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Speaker 2: a conversation argument three point fifteen two hours later, two

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Speaker 2: and a half hours later. This is the condition of

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Speaker 2: his body. Joe found on the road about a mile

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Speaker 2: and a half, two miles from the house where they've

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Speaker 2: been partying.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and this is I'm not saying that you can

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Speaker 1: see the end of the world from the locale, but

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Speaker 1: it's it's out. You got to pump in sunshine out here.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's terrible. Oklahoma's case. Folks aren't aware of it.

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Speaker 1: It's not far away as crow flies actually from from

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Speaker 1: the Dallas area. And you know it's all relative in

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Speaker 1: Texas and Oklahoma because things are so big out there.

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Speaker 1: But it literally sits right on the Oklahoma Oklahoma Texas border,

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Speaker 1: and it's it's kind of north west of Dallas. And

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Speaker 1: let's face it, I mean it's a it's an agricultural area.

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Speaker 1: You know, you're going to have a lot of farmers

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Speaker 1: around there and that sort of thing. You're gonna have

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Speaker 1: a lot of a lot of wide open spaces for kids,

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Speaker 1: particularly you know, young teenagers, I mean older teenagers and

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Speaker 1: young adults that can rip and roaring out there and

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Speaker 1: they can have all the fun they want. But I've

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Speaker 1: got to tell you, when I dropped this list on

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Speaker 1: you guys, I don't know, but I predict, just like me,

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Speaker 1: you're gonna be shocked. They've these these injuries that that

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Speaker 1: no Press Grove sustained are not merely limited to his head. Uh.

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Speaker 1: We've got injuries that that range from literally the soles

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Speaker 1: of his feet to the top of his head. Let

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Speaker 1: that sink in just for a second, now, that's one

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Speaker 1: of the reasons I was previously talking about, and just

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Speaker 1: indulge me for just a second. But when people are

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Speaker 1: struck by a motor vehicle, let's just say pedestrian struck

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Speaker 1: by a motor vehicle and they're upright, we look for

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Speaker 1: things called bumper marks on the body, and that means

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Speaker 1: that's the point of impact, if you're struck in the

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Speaker 1: leg or the hip, and it generally most of the

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Speaker 1: time it's very definitive you'll see a contusion because obviously

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Speaker 1: when when they're alive, you're going to brewse right, and

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Speaker 1: then the body is pitched over to one side or

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Speaker 1: the body is rolled over and the vehicle run continues

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Speaker 1: on down the road. Dave, in a case like this,

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Speaker 1: and when we consider the extent the extent of the injuries,

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Speaker 1: I would not be as inclined to believe that this

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Speaker 1: is a standard rollover. I'm not saying he wasn't rolled over.

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Speaker 1: I guess the question I would have to ask is

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Speaker 1: how many damn times was he rolled over? All right,

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Speaker 1: it's not like a it's not like you're going to

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Speaker 1: get this in one fail swoop, because Dave, we've got

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Speaker 1: we've got ribs, we've got cervicle, vertebra, we've got skull,

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Speaker 1: we've got tissue being peeled away with his young men.

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Speaker 1: And if you'll indulge me, I'll I'll go ahead and

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Speaker 1: run this down if you know, and we can. I

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Speaker 1: just want everyone to kind of understand, you know what

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Speaker 1: we're what we're talking about, you know, when when his

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Speaker 1: remains were finally finally come across and here we go,

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Speaker 1: we've got so Noah had ten broken ribs, He's got

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Speaker 1: a fractured skull, next spine fractures, internal bleeding. So I

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Speaker 1: mentioned the damaged skull. He's got internally, he's got brain

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Speaker 1: brain hemorrhage. And Dave, there's something that's kind of kind

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Speaker 1: of interesting here. When they did the examination and they

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Speaker 1: kind of dissected out, you know, through his brain and

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Speaker 1: down his spinal cavity, they actually found air and inside

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Speaker 1: of these areas, which is something Well, it tells me

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Speaker 1: that these bones were fractured so extensively that they they

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Speaker 1: were open, they were open to the environment. Do you

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Speaker 1: reil us how hard it is to crack open? I mean,

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Speaker 1: skulls are hard to crack open. Do you realize how

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Speaker 1: difficult it is to crack open a cervical vertebra and

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Speaker 1: not just one? Hang on, let me refer back to

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Speaker 1: my notes, I feel like I'm a trial. Now We've

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Speaker 1: got C one, which is actually referred to as your

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Speaker 1: atlas if you'll, if you'll imagine the image of the Titan.

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Speaker 1: I think he was a Titan, the Greek Titan Atlas

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Speaker 1: holding up the earth on his shoulders. That's where the

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Speaker 1: term C one or the atlas vertebra comes from. It

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Speaker 1: drops down to C two, C three is apparently C three,

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Speaker 1: C four and C five are not damaged. But then

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Speaker 1: it jumps to C six and seven. So you've got

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Speaker 1: this this area in his neck which is the most

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Speaker 1: proximal to the base of the skull C one and

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Speaker 1: C two, and then you're going to jump over three

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Speaker 1: other vertebral bodies and landing on six, C six and

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Speaker 1: C seven, and those are all fractured. So that almost

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Speaker 1: maybe it maybe it doesn't, but that almost smacks of

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Speaker 1: two separate impacts, okay, just simply based on the cerebral

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Speaker 1: on the curfable vertebra. Rather. The other thing too, that

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Speaker 1: I remember now making note of is that the C

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Speaker 1: one not only is it fractured, David C one was displaced,

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Speaker 1: which means it's kind of if you think about the

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Speaker 1: spine if you're just if you were looking at a

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Speaker 1: skeleton running from north to south. Okay, in the vertical

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Speaker 1: plane at the very top. You know, the the reason

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Speaker 1: people go to go to chiropractice many times is because

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Speaker 1: the spinal alignment and all that sort of thing. Well,

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Speaker 1: there's a particular spinal alignment in the vertical plane and Dave,

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Speaker 1: the very top, the very top vertebra again atlas that

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Speaker 1: supports the skull is knocked over to one side. How

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Speaker 1: does that even happen?

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Speaker 2: Dave?

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Speaker 1: We you know when when people see that, when it

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Speaker 1: has been seen and documented over the years. Judicial hangings,

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Speaker 1: Oh wow, yeah, judicial hangings where you get that kind

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Speaker 1: of displacement like that, and you get the fracturing, you know,

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Speaker 1: the old fracturing at the neck. By the way, we're

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Speaker 1: still going to do an episode on judicial hangings at

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Speaker 1: some point in time that I've talked about doing for

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Speaker 1: a long time.

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Speaker 2: I've tried to look at these injuries and think, Okay,

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Speaker 2: how could any one of these happen? And realize that

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Speaker 2: when you start thinking about again geography, where was he found?

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Speaker 2: It was found just off of a road early morning

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Speaker 2: before six am. And we know that his clothes. By

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Speaker 2: the way, haven't mentioned this yet, Noah press Grove with

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Speaker 2: all these injuries, Joseph Scott Morgan was found naked. His

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Speaker 2: clothes were sitting by him folded. Now what you know,

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Speaker 2: what is he flying through the air. The clothes are

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Speaker 2: coming off before the next tire rolls back over his

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Speaker 2: head to peel some skin, and his shirt falls off

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Speaker 2: and it folds itself like a Genie in the night

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Speaker 2: pants to and then I guess when he's back up

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Speaker 2: in the air, he decides to brush his teeth. But oh,

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Speaker 2: they're all knocked out. We didn't get to that yet.

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Speaker 2: But let's get right to the rest of the injuries,

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Speaker 2: because again you're talking about pre six am side of

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Speaker 2: the road country rode code. He's got these injuries ten

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Speaker 2: broken ribs, serious gold neck and spine fractures, internal bleeding,

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Speaker 2: brain and organ damage, cuts and grazes all over his body.

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Speaker 2: And you pointed out he had about twenty mili liters

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Speaker 2: of blood pulled inside his head from a brain bleed.

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Speaker 1: How much is that, Joe, oh, twenty MILLI leaders, let's

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Speaker 1: see if I could do the math on that very carefully.

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Speaker 1: It's more than should be there okay, all right, And

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Speaker 1: so there's an indwelling hemorrhage in there. So you've got

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Speaker 1: this impact that has affected these little vessels, which there

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Speaker 1: are many of within the brain. And we've talked about

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Speaker 1: this on bodybacks before, Dave that the brain and probably

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Speaker 1: secondarily to that. I know we'll probably get gigged on

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Speaker 1: this by one of our friends, but the brain and

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Speaker 1: the liver are two of the most vascular organs in

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Speaker 1: the body, probably the brain hands down, but liver is

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Speaker 1: very vascular as well. That's why if you have liver

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Speaker 1: damage traumatic, you know, you got to get you have

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Speaker 1: to get that repaired. You're going to bleed out into

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Speaker 1: your gut brain same way. But the problem is with

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Speaker 1: the brain is that not only are you experiencing this

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Speaker 1: extensive hemorrhage and this pressure that's building up inside of there.

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Speaker 1: It's not just the blood loss, it's also the pressure

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Speaker 1: within the cranial vault. It's kind of squeezing down on

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Speaker 1: the brain. That's why there has to be surgical intervention.

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Speaker 1: But David, I got to tell you, brother, I think

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Speaker 1: you could have had an entire staff of neurosurgeons standing

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Speaker 1: there adjacent to that roadway. He wouldn't have had two

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Speaker 1: hoots and hell's chance of surviving this because these injuries

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Speaker 1: are so over the top with this kid. And again,

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Speaker 1: I got to tell you, this smacks to me of

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Speaker 1: not just a single instant, you know, because of this

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00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:06,160
Speaker 1: the extent of the injuries we've got. And just let

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Speaker 1: me just bear with me, because he's got he's got

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Speaker 1: road rash, which most of the time you're going to

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Speaker 1: get road rash injuries from you can be rolled over

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Speaker 1: and just imagine a barrel rolling down the road. That's

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Speaker 1: what happens with your body, all right, if you're caught

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Speaker 1: beneath the undercarriage of the car car rolls over you.

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Speaker 1: And there are very specific injuries you look for with

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Speaker 1: that that translate from the undercarriage of the car also

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Speaker 1: the tires of the car onto the body. And then

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Speaker 1: you've got the underlying road surface or if you have

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Speaker 1: been dragged by a car as well. So you have

347
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Speaker 1: to try to understand the orientation of these of this

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Speaker 1: road rash. Is it like linear, you know, like does

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Speaker 1: the road rash A way to interpret this, Okay, if

350
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Speaker 1: you're looking at a all over type of event, if

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00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:08,359
Speaker 1: the body is log rolling down the road. That means

352
00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:12,359
Speaker 1: like rolling like a log underneath a car. You're going

353
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Speaker 1: to have these kind of parallel markings on the body.

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Speaker 1: You'll have them on the upper body and lower body, however,

355
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Speaker 1: and those will translate into road rash. If you have

356
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Speaker 1: someone who is dragged behind a car, they're going to

357
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Speaker 1: be very linear and they'll be insane. Plane. Let's just

358
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Speaker 1: say someone is being drugged by the bumper of a vehicle.

359
00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:38,920
Speaker 1: You might have these abrasions and dave, they're going to

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00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:44,080
Speaker 1: look strided. Strided means like streaked, and they'll generally be

361
00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:46,719
Speaker 1: about as wide as your hand, all right, because it's

362
00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:49,679
Speaker 1: a point of contact, and you'll have multiple surfaces and

363
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Speaker 1: the body is being drug down the road, and they're

364
00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:55,320
Speaker 1: all gonna be linear and kind of parallel to one another.

365
00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:59,760
Speaker 1: So when you're thinking about orientation of the body to

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Speaker 1: the vehicle and to the road surface, what pattern were

367
00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:09,199
Speaker 1: these in Because we haven't necessarily heard that yet, you know,

368
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Speaker 1: we do know that road rash exists or what the

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Speaker 1: forensic pathologist is talking about. And by the way, the

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Speaker 1: State Medical Examiner's Office in Oklahoma, it's one of the

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Speaker 1: finest in the country. First Off, it's a state Medical

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Speaker 1: Examiner's office. It's a standalone, separate entity from any law

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Speaker 1: enforcement agency. It's not like governed by the state police

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Speaker 1: or anything. It's a standalone agency. And they're renowned. They're

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Speaker 1: renowned for their work and the quality of work that

376
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Speaker 1: they do. So I have no doubt he's got this abrasion, Dave.

377
00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:51,199
Speaker 1: That's on multiple surfaces. So he's got road rash on

378
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Speaker 1: his upper back. He's got abrasions and grazes on his

379
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Speaker 1: left shoulder, left arm, left side of the tors and

380
00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:05,000
Speaker 1: both of his butt. Okay, so he's kind of twisting

381
00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:09,040
Speaker 1: and turning. Again. We don't know if it's in necessarily

382
00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:12,280
Speaker 1: the horizontal plane or the vertical plane that these things

383
00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:15,600
Speaker 1: are running relative to the torso itself, and that's just

384
00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:21,680
Speaker 1: that's the external vision that you have. He's also got

385
00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:29,080
Speaker 1: healed abrasions that they found on and scabs on his nose,

386
00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:32,920
Speaker 1: both of his hands, his knuckles, left foot, and heel.

387
00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:40,920
Speaker 1: He's got an ulcerated healing or ulcer on his right thigh.

388
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Speaker 1: All of these, according to the Medical Examiner. These other injuries,

389
00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:48,520
Speaker 1: which is fascinating to me, pre date the night of

390
00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:52,280
Speaker 1: this event, Dave, and they referred to as healed abrasions

391
00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:55,480
Speaker 1: and scabs on his nose and David, you know what,

392
00:25:55,960 --> 00:26:01,040
Speaker 1: it's not just that they're on his on his nose,

393
00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:07,920
Speaker 1: they're on both hands as well, and the knuckles. Dave,

394
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:10,679
Speaker 1: when I see abrasions, when I hear about abrasions on

395
00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:14,119
Speaker 1: hands and knuckles, you know what, I think, you know,

396
00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:17,760
Speaker 1: I think that there's physical altercation involved. But yet these

397
00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:20,680
Speaker 1: things are healing. I think the one thing to try

398
00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:25,920
Speaker 1: to understand is at what level of resolve are these injuries?

399
00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:29,320
Speaker 1: Is this something that because you could, I guess over

400
00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:33,280
Speaker 1: a thirty six hour period, you'll have enough of a change.

401
00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:35,160
Speaker 1: And I think that we can all relate to this.

402
00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:37,120
Speaker 1: I mean we all can. You and I both can.

403
00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:41,440
Speaker 1: If we scrape our hand. Let's say that right now,

404
00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:45,080
Speaker 1: you and I scraped our hand. Thirty six to forty

405
00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:49,760
Speaker 1: eight hours from now, that insult is going to look

406
00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:52,560
Speaker 1: completely different than it does right now. Yeah, you would

407
00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:57,000
Speaker 1: have a scab, you would have some a bit of

408
00:26:57,080 --> 00:27:01,040
Speaker 1: resolving that's going on with the injury. Certainly, you know,

409
00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:03,760
Speaker 1: if you had a contusion there, the contusion is not

410
00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:05,600
Speaker 1: going to be the same color as it was forty

411
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:09,600
Speaker 1: eight hours earlier. Thirty six hours earlier, So I think

412
00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:12,040
Speaker 1: that within this timeframe, I mean, one of the questions

413
00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:17,119
Speaker 1: is what was going on, what had he been involved in?

414
00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:20,840
Speaker 1: We do know this that those injuries were still there.

415
00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:25,040
Speaker 1: They hadn't gone anywhere, so they're not like ancient ancient injuries.

416
00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:27,960
Speaker 1: I think that we can probably speculate on that a bit.

417
00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:37,480
Speaker 1: With with these injuries though, you're kind of over there's

418
00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:44,000
Speaker 1: an overlay of of the of the fresh injuries and

419
00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:48,080
Speaker 1: these old injuries. The problem is, like many times with

420
00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:54,240
Speaker 1: these with these issues, there's you know, sequencing that goes on.

421
00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:59,560
Speaker 1: What was kind of fascinating about all this. You've got

422
00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:04,320
Speaker 1: this this guy that does Stuart Fisher, who's an internist,

423
00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:07,520
Speaker 1: and he had given he's a physician, he's like an

424
00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:13,119
Speaker 1: internal uh internal medicine guy that has, according to the

425
00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:17,879
Speaker 1: Daily Mail, had worked you know, extensively an emergency you

426
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:21,919
Speaker 1: know medicine. They asked him to review the report, and

427
00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:27,520
Speaker 1: the physician had actually stated that this this kid has

428
00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:34,560
Speaker 1: suffered so many catastrophic injuries, Dave, that any number of

429
00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:38,680
Speaker 1: these insults could have killed him just like a stand

430
00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:42,960
Speaker 1: alone UH. I think probably the most significant one that

431
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:47,040
Speaker 1: the that the uh that the doctor you know, pointed

432
00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:51,320
Speaker 1: out was the extensive, uh, the extensive skull fraction. As

433
00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:55,440
Speaker 1: a matter of fact, their you know, their comments relative

434
00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:58,760
Speaker 1: to this, and this comes from the police investigators that

435
00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:04,400
Speaker 1: they described as head Dave is being caved in. Now,

436
00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:07,440
Speaker 1: how can you have a cave in? And that would

437
00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:11,720
Speaker 1: be what's referred to as a depressed skull fracture where

438
00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:15,240
Speaker 1: you have to have energy transfer from an object to

439
00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:18,640
Speaker 1: that underlying surface, the external table of the skull, so

440
00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:22,720
Speaker 1: that that direct energy is coming from I don't know.

441
00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:23,560
Speaker 2: A tire.

442
00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:32,240
Speaker 1: Or a foot, or an object like a bat or

443
00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:38,320
Speaker 1: a pipe. And you know, going back to the physition,

444
00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:41,200
Speaker 1: he said, you know, Dave, there's five, maybe up to

445
00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:46,680
Speaker 1: ten life threatening injuries just in stand alone by itself.

446
00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:51,160
Speaker 1: And that's again you have to ask yourself this question

447
00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:56,800
Speaker 1: a reasonable question here? Could know Press Grove have sustained

448
00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:01,640
Speaker 1: all of the totality of these injuries simply by being

449
00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:05,560
Speaker 1: struck by a motor vehicle with a single strike. I

450
00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:08,680
Speaker 1: just I have a real hard time swallowing.

451
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:14,960
Speaker 2: Joe, what about what about the clumps of hair? What

452
00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:20,080
Speaker 2: about the skin on the left side of his scalp

453
00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:25,040
Speaker 2: that was torn to the bone. I mean, I know

454
00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:27,040
Speaker 2: there are thinner parts of skin and things like that,

455
00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:30,720
Speaker 2: but when you start talking about skin being torn to

456
00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:37,280
Speaker 2: the bone, that's just animalistic behavior to me. It's something

457
00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:40,719
Speaker 2: that unless you're again now back to unless you are

458
00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:44,480
Speaker 2: hit by something mechanical, if another human being did this,

459
00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:48,680
Speaker 2: how enraged are you that you can cause hair to

460
00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:53,040
Speaker 2: be pulled out, ripping skin to the skull. A clump

461
00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:57,560
Speaker 2: of hair, A clump of hair was observed on his

462
00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:01,920
Speaker 2: right butt cheek without blood or tissue on it. Joe,

463
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:05,280
Speaker 2: have you ever seen a car truck hit somebody and

464
00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:08,400
Speaker 2: I guess the truck fairy goes back and finds some

465
00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:10,520
Speaker 2: hair that's undamaged and laid it on the person like

466
00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:11,040
Speaker 2: as a wreath.

467
00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:14,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it all depends. Well again we're back to

468
00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:18,120
Speaker 1: folded clothes, right right. How how do you get head

469
00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:22,560
Speaker 1: hair that is deposited on the buttock? Well, it's a

470
00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:25,920
Speaker 1: real dynamic situation. I'll give you that if it is

471
00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:29,760
Speaker 1: a rollover. But you know, when you couple that also

472
00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:32,720
Speaker 1: with what was that you had mentioned Off of the

473
00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:35,800
Speaker 1: aspect of the face, we had skin that was feeled back, David,

474
00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:41,440
Speaker 1: this is a phenomenon that's known as degloving. Wow, degloving. Yeah,

475
00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:45,320
Speaker 1: we do gloving for everything we do. Well you give

476
00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:48,520
Speaker 1: a yeah, you really do because in some things are

477
00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:51,520
Speaker 1: so and look, not all of it comes directly from

478
00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:57,920
Speaker 1: forensics because you have, you know, people in standard medical practice,

479
00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:00,720
Speaker 1: you know, deal with individuals that have their skin has

480
00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:04,120
Speaker 1: been degloved. You know, it does, it does happen. It's horrible,

481
00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:07,440
Speaker 1: it's horrible, and you know people wind up having skin

482
00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:10,360
Speaker 1: grafts and all those sorts of things. But yeah, degloving

483
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:12,920
Speaker 1: for us, you know, it has a couple of connotations.

484
00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:17,320
Speaker 1: First off, you can have traumatic degloving and uh you

485
00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:22,160
Speaker 1: get degloving with skin in regards to decomposition, you know,

486
00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:25,600
Speaker 1: like the hands de glove we you know, and the

487
00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:29,600
Speaker 1: more will actually take the dermal level of the skin

488
00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:33,520
Speaker 1: and peel it off the hands of a off of

489
00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:37,920
Speaker 1: a decomposing body. Put a latex glove over your own

490
00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:42,400
Speaker 1: hand and insert your hand into the skin, the degloved

491
00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:45,000
Speaker 1: skin of the deceased, and we can roll fingerprints that way.

492
00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:47,640
Speaker 1: I've done that many times. It's kind of a creepy

493
00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:50,360
Speaker 1: thing to do. I know, uh, I know what you're

494
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:53,800
Speaker 1: thinking right now, No kidding, just got.

495
00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:56,680
Speaker 2: Actually think if it doesn't fit, you must have quite well.

496
00:32:57,360 --> 00:33:01,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and that's again that's an other problem because

497
00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:04,440
Speaker 1: skin is so stretched. But I'm digressing. We could do

498
00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:08,200
Speaker 1: an entire episode on things that we have to do

499
00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:09,920
Speaker 1: about decomposing bodies, like.

500
00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:11,920
Speaker 2: From the hair and the skin.

501
00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:16,320
Speaker 1: What about the teeth, Joe, Okay, The teeth are fascinating

502
00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:19,719
Speaker 1: to me because you've got this array of teeth that

503
00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:25,800
Speaker 1: are lying about on the roadway well in order. The

504
00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:29,600
Speaker 1: reason there is a term that people say they got

505
00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:33,840
Speaker 1: their teeth knocked out is because it's a big deal

506
00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:38,080
Speaker 1: day you're aize how hard it is to unroot a

507
00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:44,880
Speaker 1: tooth traumatically, and that's a single tooth, all right. I

508
00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:48,560
Speaker 1: think one of the big questions I have and is

509
00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:53,760
Speaker 1: was there was there any kind of maxillary which means

510
00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:59,840
Speaker 1: your maxilla is essentially the roof of your mouth. Just

511
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:01,880
Speaker 1: give me a little rope here, but it's it's the

512
00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:05,120
Speaker 1: roof of the mouth. So your maxillary teeth, the upper

513
00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:09,080
Speaker 1: teeth are seated in there. Then you have the mangellary

514
00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:13,040
Speaker 1: teeth and those are indemandible, which is your jaw, all right,

515
00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:15,600
Speaker 1: and they're deeply rooted. You know. I think that most

516
00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:18,440
Speaker 1: people can identify with this, you know, what your teeth are,

517
00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:21,239
Speaker 1: Like you ever had tooth pulled. We're not just talking

518
00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:23,719
Speaker 1: about one or two teeth. We're talking about multiple teeth

519
00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:26,920
Speaker 1: that are scattered around on the surface of the roadway. Well,

520
00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:28,920
Speaker 1: most of time it's going to inquire. That's going to

521
00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:31,799
Speaker 1: require a very forceful impact. I want to know what

522
00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:35,520
Speaker 1: the underlying diagnosis were was for the bony structure supporting

523
00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:39,719
Speaker 1: the area. Was there extensive jaw fracturing or maxillary fracturing,

524
00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:42,759
Speaker 1: because we know that his skull was fractured. Say what

525
00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:46,200
Speaker 1: do they say earlier his skull was caved in, Well,

526
00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:48,959
Speaker 1: the upper skull if you're talking about say the right

527
00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:52,600
Speaker 1: or the left paridal area, which is that area that's

528
00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:55,240
Speaker 1: if you'll find your temple and kind of go above

529
00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:59,120
Speaker 1: into the rear. That's the parietal area, a sprietal bone

530
00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:01,720
Speaker 1: right there, and then you have occipital bones in the back.

531
00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:07,800
Speaker 1: They're kind of non specific about that. I'd like to

532
00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:13,600
Speaker 1: know what specifically what the teeth are, and I'm talking

533
00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:18,960
Speaker 1: about anatomical orientation. Uh, you know what what was left

534
00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:22,799
Speaker 1: where the teeth Okay, where the teeth actually knocked out

535
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:27,160
Speaker 1: of his head or Dave, where the teeth actually fractured

536
00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:31,880
Speaker 1: and the root was still in place in the in

537
00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:35,440
Speaker 1: the in the socket of the of the teeth. Totally

538
00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:40,560
Speaker 1: two different things here. Okay, there's there's so much trauma

539
00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:46,880
Speaker 1: in in Noah's case, Dave, this this autopsy alone, just

540
00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:49,480
Speaker 1: let me kind of run this down to you. The

541
00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:55,359
Speaker 1: autopsy alone. When they got into this thing, I would

542
00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:58,960
Speaker 1: imagine it took them a couple of hours, and you

543
00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:01,239
Speaker 1: know what the line share of their time would have

544
00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:05,919
Speaker 1: been spent doing here, doing the external exam because there's

545
00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:12,439
Speaker 1: so much externally relative to his body. Before you ever

546
00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:15,480
Speaker 1: break out the cold steel, as we say, and open

547
00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:22,000
Speaker 1: his remains up, it would be a grand undertaking in

548
00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:25,839
Speaker 1: order to examine him and try to assess everything measured appropriately.

549
00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:29,160
Speaker 1: And I hadn't even talked about what had happened in

550
00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:32,520
Speaker 1: his chest cavity because we've got a closed head injury,

551
00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:34,560
Speaker 1: or I guess you could say it's kind of open

552
00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:39,880
Speaker 1: if they're talking about a depressed skull fracture. But Dave,

553
00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:46,160
Speaker 1: for Noah, both of his lungs were punctured, so that

554
00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:49,720
Speaker 1: means that puncturing of lungs comes about as a result

555
00:36:49,719 --> 00:36:53,759
Speaker 1: of fractured ribs. Will refer to it many times as

556
00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:57,439
Speaker 1: a flail chess where you've got multiple ribs on both

557
00:36:57,480 --> 00:36:59,360
Speaker 1: sides and you get what's referred to as like a

558
00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:03,319
Speaker 1: floating cast. A lot of blood associated with this. As

559
00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:09,840
Speaker 1: a matter of fact, I think that they recovered roughly

560
00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:16,560
Speaker 1: about three point two pints of blood. It's about fifteen

561
00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:24,040
Speaker 1: hundred millimeters of blood. He's got a contusion to his heart,

562
00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:29,600
Speaker 1: his spleen, and his stomach. So this kid has just

563
00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:36,560
Speaker 1: been obliterated, pounded, and it's not just external, it's what

564
00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:44,320
Speaker 1: has happened to him internally. There were at the scene.

565
00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:47,440
Speaker 1: The big thing about it is is that with all

566
00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:50,240
Speaker 1: of these injuries day, with the one thing that really

567
00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:54,560
Speaker 1: really catches your eye other than if you didn't need

568
00:37:54,600 --> 00:38:00,279
Speaker 1: anything else, Dave, there's no pools of blood. There's nools

569
00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:03,799
Speaker 1: of blood out there. And how do you generate all

570
00:38:03,840 --> 00:38:07,240
Speaker 1: of these injuries and you don't have like a large

571
00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:11,920
Speaker 1: puddling of blood that's immediately adjacent to the body or

572
00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:16,080
Speaker 1: the body is overlying it? Does? It just doesn't. It

573
00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:33,120
Speaker 1: doesn't make sense that. Look, I'm I'm not going to

574
00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:38,720
Speaker 1: sit here and say that, you know, Noah, some innocent

575
00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:42,480
Speaker 1: little lamb that was you know, uh, just brought in

576
00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:45,239
Speaker 1: that he hadn't been participating in partying and all this

577
00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:50,400
Speaker 1: sort of thing, But it still doesn't excuse the idea

578
00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:54,239
Speaker 1: of how much trauma he has had. I'll tell you

579
00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:58,200
Speaker 1: this for folks that are not aware. His blood alcohol

580
00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:04,440
Speaker 1: is zero point one four, and that's that exceeds the

581
00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:08,200
Speaker 1: legal limit, okay, for intoxication, but that means to operate

582
00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:11,960
Speaker 1: a vehicle. Now he's under age. He's underage drinking, So

583
00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:18,600
Speaker 1: at point one four, you will be slurring your words,

584
00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:22,600
Speaker 1: You're going to have your motor activity and response time

585
00:39:22,719 --> 00:39:26,280
Speaker 1: is going to be slowed down significantly. You know, legal drinking,

586
00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:32,640
Speaker 1: the legal limit for drinking or being drunk, according to

587
00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:35,360
Speaker 1: state law pretty much around the country, it's going to

588
00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:40,520
Speaker 1: vary is generally point zero eight. His is point one four.

589
00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:44,000
Speaker 1: So he's he's got you know, he's got a significant

590
00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:50,240
Speaker 1: amount of alcohol on board. It's not twice the amount

591
00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:53,640
Speaker 1: quite yet of legal limit, but it's it's up there.

592
00:39:53,719 --> 00:39:57,120
Speaker 1: So he would have been impaired. But again, you know

593
00:39:57,160 --> 00:40:02,319
Speaker 1: somebody that's impaired, Dave is is the easily pounced upon

594
00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:03,040
Speaker 1: by somebody.

595
00:40:03,360 --> 00:40:05,480
Speaker 2: Well, let me give you the other part of this

596
00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:07,920
Speaker 2: shoe that I really wanted to make sure we understand

597
00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:10,840
Speaker 2: because we've covered most we didn't even cover all of

598
00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:12,680
Speaker 2: his injuries. You have friends, just so you know what

599
00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:15,840
Speaker 2: you heard is a partial list. There's still more. But

600
00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:18,759
Speaker 2: when he was found in that state with all those injuries,

601
00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:25,360
Speaker 2: he was naked. He wore only mismatched shoes. One was

602
00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:27,200
Speaker 2: in n Adidas and the other was a Hey dude's.

603
00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:33,920
Speaker 2: There was debris and grass stuck in the laces of

604
00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:38,000
Speaker 2: each and more of them. On the left shoe, a

605
00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:42,880
Speaker 2: silver plated chain necklace from Noah's grandmother was scattered in

606
00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:47,400
Speaker 2: pieces not far away from a remnants of a tooth,

607
00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:49,600
Speaker 2: not a whole tooth, remnants of.

608
00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:51,040
Speaker 1: A tooth, a fracture tooth.

609
00:40:51,440 --> 00:40:59,360
Speaker 2: Yes, his undamaged shores. We're seeing about thirty yards away. Jack,

610
00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:04,320
Speaker 2: this goes back several months ago. Was Noah's best friend

611
00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:10,200
Speaker 2: said that the shorts were actually borrowed. This goes back

612
00:41:10,239 --> 00:41:13,240
Speaker 2: to that rollover incident with the vehicle. Yeah, they were dirty,

613
00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:16,040
Speaker 2: They just grab clothes. You know, there were people spending

614
00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:18,000
Speaker 2: the night and staying they were grabbing that. That does

615
00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:20,840
Speaker 2: not surprise me nearly as much, you know as a

616
00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:23,640
Speaker 2: lot of the things that have happened, you know, the clothing.

617
00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:27,120
Speaker 2: What bothers me about the clothing is that he was

618
00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:30,680
Speaker 2: found naked with all those injuries, and his clothing was

619
00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:34,719
Speaker 2: not on him, near him torn. I mean it's you know,

620
00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:36,920
Speaker 2: does that make sense, Joe? That really bothers me that

621
00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:42,120
Speaker 2: he's left in a state of destruction and you're not

622
00:41:42,160 --> 00:41:44,960
Speaker 2: finding ripped clothes, torning clothes, bloody clothes.

623
00:41:45,640 --> 00:41:48,920
Speaker 1: Yeah. And I think this goes to an element. I

624
00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:51,759
Speaker 1: think in legal terms it's referred to as due care.

625
00:41:53,880 --> 00:41:56,520
Speaker 1: You know, we were Nancy recently and she was talking

626
00:41:56,520 --> 00:42:01,560
Speaker 1: about that public doesn't have an obligation necessarily to tend

627
00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:05,880
Speaker 1: to somebody that's not directly in you know, like if

628
00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:08,359
Speaker 1: you're a caregiver, if you're a parent, that sort of thing,

629
00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:10,640
Speaker 1: you do have a legal obligation you know, to take

630
00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:13,319
Speaker 1: care of you know, infirmed people and children and all

631
00:42:13,360 --> 00:42:17,799
Speaker 1: that sort of thing. But it would seem to me,

632
00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:20,759
Speaker 1: and there have been lawsuits that have been brought in

633
00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:22,799
Speaker 1: regards to this sort of thing when somebody comes to

634
00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:27,920
Speaker 1: a domicile and they're applied with alcohol and this is

635
00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:30,319
Speaker 1: I mean, bars have gotten sued over this. I know,

636
00:42:30,440 --> 00:42:34,360
Speaker 1: you know that day where people will get get hammered,

637
00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:38,319
Speaker 1: you know, at a local bar, and the the you know,

638
00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:40,640
Speaker 1: the bar didn't use due care and allowed the individual

639
00:42:40,719 --> 00:42:42,840
Speaker 1: to leave and they wind up either getting killed or

640
00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:46,000
Speaker 1: killing somebody, that sort of thing. So how do you

641
00:42:47,080 --> 00:42:52,279
Speaker 1: how do you allow someone to leave your domicile or

642
00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:55,279
Speaker 1: in your and you know that they're they're drunk, and

643
00:42:55,320 --> 00:43:00,319
Speaker 1: they're they're naked, and they're wearing mismatched shoes. It's such

644
00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:04,840
Speaker 1: a bizarre set of circumstances. And then finally, you know,

645
00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:11,279
Speaker 1: a little while later, he's found he's found dead a

646
00:43:11,400 --> 00:43:13,920
Speaker 1: distance from the house, out on the road, Dave.

647
00:43:14,440 --> 00:43:17,640
Speaker 2: And with conflicting stories from those who are at the party. Yeah,

648
00:43:17,640 --> 00:43:20,160
Speaker 2: that's the biggest issue. You got friends from looik Man.

649
00:43:20,719 --> 00:43:22,600
Speaker 2: You guys all grow up together. Yes, you were having

650
00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:24,440
Speaker 2: a party. Settle that to the side, where kas we

651
00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:27,120
Speaker 2: got a dead guy? What happened? We can't get the

652
00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:31,320
Speaker 2: same story from everybody the minute somebody's lying, somebody's lying,

653
00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:35,439
Speaker 2: you know. And if you can't get if you've got

654
00:43:35,480 --> 00:43:38,520
Speaker 2: five people telling five different stories, they could all be

655
00:43:38,600 --> 00:43:41,440
Speaker 2: talking about from their perspective of what they saw, but

656
00:43:41,520 --> 00:43:43,239
Speaker 2: when you put it all together, they all make sense.

657
00:43:43,360 --> 00:43:45,759
Speaker 2: That isn't happening here. So that's what let him know

658
00:43:45,840 --> 00:43:48,880
Speaker 2: his family finally, after not getting anywhere with any you know,

659
00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:52,520
Speaker 2: by the way, I want to be very the police

660
00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:56,680
Speaker 2: have done the best job they can at this point.

661
00:43:56,719 --> 00:44:00,200
Speaker 2: They've involved others, you know, they've done their investigation. But

662
00:44:00,239 --> 00:44:02,160
Speaker 2: at a certain point in time, you know, you you

663
00:44:02,239 --> 00:44:04,879
Speaker 2: really have to know what happened, and they have yet

664
00:44:04,920 --> 00:44:08,600
Speaker 2: to figure that out. So no, and I.

665
00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:13,200
Speaker 1: Don't know, I don't know that they have enough enough

666
00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:16,600
Speaker 1: probable cause to move forward from a legal standpoint in

667
00:44:16,719 --> 00:44:21,560
Speaker 1: order to intensify the investigation. They have said that they're

668
00:44:21,600 --> 00:44:25,000
Speaker 1: not investigating this as a hom side. That was one.

669
00:44:25,320 --> 00:44:29,120
Speaker 1: But I got to tell you, just because you say

670
00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:33,480
Speaker 1: you're not, they leave them. I've been down this road before.

671
00:44:34,040 --> 00:44:37,080
Speaker 1: Just because they say they're not doesn't mean I'm doing

672
00:44:37,120 --> 00:44:42,600
Speaker 1: air quotes right here, doesn't mean that new information might develop. Yeah, okay,

673
00:44:42,840 --> 00:44:45,960
Speaker 1: and not stupid. No, they're not and they're not going

674
00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:50,200
Speaker 1: to show their hand. But they've just kind of this

675
00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:52,879
Speaker 1: is really your strong suit here, just kind of lay

676
00:44:52,920 --> 00:44:55,320
Speaker 1: out this lawsuit because it's well.

677
00:44:55,200 --> 00:44:57,920
Speaker 2: They file a wrongful death lawsuit. They filed it and

678
00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:00,480
Speaker 2: they name names the family. This is the family of

679
00:45:00,480 --> 00:45:03,040
Speaker 2: Noah Press Grove. And by the way, when you file

680
00:45:03,080 --> 00:45:08,240
Speaker 2: a civil lawsuit, it's always monetary, right, But in this case,

681
00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:11,280
Speaker 2: they're not asking for enough money like they're they're asking

682
00:45:11,320 --> 00:45:12,520
Speaker 2: for seventy five thousand dollars.

683
00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:14,920
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, hey, I got it. I'm glad you said this,

684
00:45:14,960 --> 00:45:18,080
Speaker 1: because when I saw it, I was thinking, yeah, if

685
00:45:18,480 --> 00:45:21,200
Speaker 1: this was my kid, you know, there's going to be

686
00:45:22,440 --> 00:45:26,239
Speaker 1: a one at minimum with six digits after that. And

687
00:45:26,320 --> 00:45:29,600
Speaker 1: I saw seventy five. Boy, the smacks of just trying

688
00:45:29,600 --> 00:45:32,839
Speaker 1: to elicit information, and to me it does at least. Yeah,

689
00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:35,000
Speaker 1: I want to know. I got to tell you this

690
00:45:35,080 --> 00:45:37,600
Speaker 1: is the one thing about it. I know that that

691
00:45:37,680 --> 00:45:41,839
Speaker 1: this is putting the onus on Noah here attorney. As

692
00:45:41,840 --> 00:45:44,640
Speaker 1: we say, attorneys are going to attorney, that's what they do.

693
00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:52,439
Speaker 1: But the fact that the Press Groves filed this lawsuit, Dave,

694
00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:55,040
Speaker 1: I tell you what they're what we're staring down the

695
00:45:55,080 --> 00:45:57,840
Speaker 1: barrel of here. We're going to be getting some depositions

696
00:45:58,880 --> 00:46:01,400
Speaker 1: and they will be under a they will be so

697
00:46:01,640 --> 00:46:05,440
Speaker 1: ordered by the court and somebody is going to have

698
00:46:05,520 --> 00:46:09,600
Speaker 1: to go into a big, oak paneled office somewhere with

699
00:46:09,680 --> 00:46:12,320
Speaker 1: lots of fancy books in a room They're going to

700
00:46:12,360 --> 00:46:14,440
Speaker 1: sit at a big table and there's going to be

701
00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:16,799
Speaker 1: a court reporter sitting right there. There's gonna be a

702
00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:21,320
Speaker 1: microphone in front of them, and the plaintiff will ask questions,

703
00:46:21,520 --> 00:46:24,839
Speaker 1: and if they have an attorney, their attorney will try

704
00:46:24,920 --> 00:46:29,080
Speaker 1: to deflect or reframe the thing, and there will be

705
00:46:29,280 --> 00:46:34,920
Speaker 1: questions ask But the big question is will we actually

706
00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:41,799
Speaker 1: get any answers. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is

707
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:42,920
Speaker 1: body Backs