WEBVTT - Ep. 446: When an African Cape Buffalo Beats Your Butt

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<v Speaker 1>Hey guys, it's Brody Henderson. You probably know me from

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<v Speaker 1>kicking Stey's butt on Meet Eater's trivia show. When I'm

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<v Speaker 1>not doing that, I'm part of the Mediatter publishing team

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<v Speaker 1>and stoke to announce that our new book, Catch a Crayfish,

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<v Speaker 1>Count the Stars, Fun, Project Skills and Adventures for Outdoor

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<v Speaker 1>Kids is coming out June thirteenth. It's Media's first book

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<v Speaker 1>for kids, and it's chuck full of activities and adventures

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<v Speaker 1>that will help build serious outdoor skills start them young

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<v Speaker 1>by teaching them how to build a wildlife, viewing blind,

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<v Speaker 1>giga bull frog, and navigate through the wilderness. They'll also

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<v Speaker 1>learn how to forage and grow their own food, build

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<v Speaker 1>emergency shelters, hunt for fossils, gutfish, track animals, and much more.

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<v Speaker 1>To celebrate the release of the book, Steve will be

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<v Speaker 1>heading out on a little Book tour from June sixteenth

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<v Speaker 1>to June twenty fifth, and he'll be signing copies of

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<v Speaker 1>the books at Shields stores in Billings, Montana, Minneapolis, Minnesota, Omaha, Nebraska,

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<v Speaker 1>Kansas City, Missouri, Dallas, Texas, Colorado Springs, Colorado, out Johnstown, Colorado,

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<v Speaker 1>and Sandy Utah. Catch a Crayfish. Count the Stars is

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<v Speaker 1>a must have book for any parent or caregiver who

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<v Speaker 1>wants to get their kids off the couch and off

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<v Speaker 1>their screens over those long summer days. It also includes

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<v Speaker 1>activities for all different kinds of weather that'll keep them

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<v Speaker 1>busy throughout the year. Visit the meateater dot com for

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<v Speaker 1>tickets and we'll see you at Shields.

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<v Speaker 2>If this is the mea Eater podcast coming at you shirtless.

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<v Speaker 3>Severely, bug bitten, and in my case, underwear listening podcast.

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<v Speaker 4>You can't predict anything presented by First Light, creating proven

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<v Speaker 4>versatile hunting apparel from Marino bass layers to technical outerwear.

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<v Speaker 4>For every hunt, First Light, Go farther, stay longer. All right, Borry,

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<v Speaker 4>the Tanzanians are here when you guys, That's what I

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<v Speaker 4>was telling my kids, and you guys came off for dinner.

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<v Speaker 2>I said, the Tanzanians are coming to night. They didn't

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<v Speaker 2>know what that meant.

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<v Speaker 4>And then but you're Australian when you were born in Tanzania,

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<v Speaker 4>I was really misleading by kids a little.

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<v Speaker 5>Bit nearer than Morgan.

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<v Speaker 2>He's a little closer than me.

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<v Speaker 4>Okay, Morgan, So walk me through how you became to

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<v Speaker 4>be came to be a Tanzanian.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah in Montana. Yeah, yeah, Well it's kind of a

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<v Speaker 2>long story. And I guess if Roger's the sort of

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<v Speaker 2>the pedigree, the kind of thoroughbred, I'm like the mongrel,

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<v Speaker 2>so I, you know, African hunting was something that I

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<v Speaker 2>grew up with. My grandfather was an African hunter, not

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<v Speaker 2>a professional, you know, as a client. He'd go over

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<v Speaker 2>there in the sixties and seventies. He did a number

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<v Speaker 2>of Safaris and I always I was passionate about hunting

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<v Speaker 2>and I got that from him. And now the farmhouse

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<v Speaker 2>where we kind of lived had a lot of his trophies,

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of his pictures, a lot of stuff, kind

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<v Speaker 2>of memorabilia from Africa. So it was just kind of

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<v Speaker 2>always like under my skin, I guess, and I think,

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<v Speaker 2>like a lot of people, I sort of hit this

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<v Speaker 2>period in my early twenties where I was like, what

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<v Speaker 2>am I going to do with my life? You know,

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<v Speaker 2>odd jobs here and there aren't cutting it, didn't go

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<v Speaker 2>to college, and I kind of thought about, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>taking hunting as a profession further. And I went up

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<v Speaker 2>to this place in Northern Australia, met a guy that

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<v Speaker 2>was hunting water buffalo up there. There's these free range

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<v Speaker 2>Asian water buffalo Northern Australia, like thousands of them. They

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<v Speaker 2>had this colony that they tried to establish up there,

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<v Speaker 2>and they realized they couldn't use British breeds of cattle,

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<v Speaker 2>so they brought these water buffalo as like beasts of

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<v Speaker 2>burden and meat animals, and the colony ended up failing

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<v Speaker 2>and they just kind of opened the corrals and were

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<v Speaker 2>like off, you know, get out of here. Came back

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<v Speaker 2>like I think it was seventy years later and there

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<v Speaker 2>was like twenty thousand at the things.

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<v Speaker 4>So I got a few friends that from here that

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<v Speaker 4>have gone there to do that.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's awesome.

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<v Speaker 6>Oh yeah, No, I just have have always had a

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<v Speaker 6>high fascination with.

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<v Speaker 2>Those moldern water buffalo.

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<v Speaker 6>Yeah. And maybe it's the like crocodile dundee, which is

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<v Speaker 6>probably like a horrible reference for you.

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<v Speaker 2>But it's it's a tough one.

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<v Speaker 4>They don't put those in Crocodile Dundee.

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<v Speaker 2>I forgot about that. Yeah, that that ball that was

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<v Speaker 2>in that movie is super famous. It's like mounted in

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<v Speaker 2>a bar down there. It's actually it was like a eunuch,

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<v Speaker 2>like I don't know what the right term is like

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<v Speaker 2>that that specific animal unit. He'd be a yeah, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>I guess, or a bullock. Is that? The other time

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<v Speaker 2>it was no, no, no, it was castrated and that's why

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<v Speaker 2>it has those massive horns like oh no.

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<v Speaker 4>No, no, castrated, No castrated ox is there you go

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<v Speaker 4>it's an Yeah, it's strated.

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<v Speaker 2>An adult castrated ball. Yeah, is an ox. Yeah it

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<v Speaker 2>was an ox. Hence the enormous kind of spread on

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<v Speaker 2>those on those horns. But yeah, they're a fascinating species

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<v Speaker 2>in there. They're they're pretty different from African buffalo. But really,

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<v Speaker 2>I mean it's an incredible area of wilderness where you

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<v Speaker 2>go hunt them. It's They're impressive for sure. So I

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<v Speaker 2>went up there. I kind of got got hired for

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<v Speaker 2>that to really see, and I guess for me it

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<v Speaker 2>was about seeing if I could be a guide, and

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<v Speaker 2>I think I did all right despite my sort of

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<v Speaker 2>youth and inexperience. And then this guy came out to

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<v Speaker 2>make a movie about all the species of buffalo you

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<v Speaker 2>can still hunt in the world. How that movie do?

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<v Speaker 6>Ah?

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<v Speaker 2>I think it did? Okay, it was It's well, I

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<v Speaker 2>was called buffalo hunters, but it was It was a

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<v Speaker 2>German production, and I think the Germans have a different,

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<v Speaker 2>different vibe around there. There was a lot of like

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<v Speaker 2>recreates and I'm a terrible actor. Let me just give

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<v Speaker 2>you that, like it just heads up right now, hold

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<v Speaker 2>that against you, oh man, And so like, I had

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<v Speaker 2>a tough one with the recreates. They sort of always

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<v Speaker 2>have that look where like, if someone films you hunting,

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<v Speaker 2>it looks like whatever looks normal. Maybe you're a little goofy,

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<v Speaker 2>but generally you look natural. But then if someone's like,

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<v Speaker 2>all right, walk back there and do that again, you

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<v Speaker 2>always look like an idiot.

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<v Speaker 4>I think, yeah, I'll give people a little heads up

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<v Speaker 4>for people at home if you're watching hunting shows and

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<v Speaker 4>you're looking for the recreates. Uh, if someone goes to

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<v Speaker 4>shoot something and you realize you're getting three or four

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<v Speaker 4>camera angles on.

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<v Speaker 2>It, it's not happening, like, oh, there's a camera game in

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<v Speaker 2>front of him, to the side of him. There was

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<v Speaker 2>there was a lot of There was a lot of that,

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<v Speaker 2>but it was cool. But the guy that made the

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<v Speaker 2>movie was a phenomenal hunter called Ryana yosh and his

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<v Speaker 2>day job was a professional hunter in Tanzania. So after

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<v Speaker 2>we got done with the movie, I followed him back

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<v Speaker 2>to Africa and was this what he taught me? But

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<v Speaker 2>was this what Roger? Was this one of you guys

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<v Speaker 2>say he used.

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<v Speaker 5>With us from time war time with you.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, people are gonna get people are gonna get Well,

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<v Speaker 4>this will all start making more sense to you people

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<v Speaker 4>at home.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it'll we'll we'll fill in the narrative here. But

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<v Speaker 2>I uh, and so I sort of came to I

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<v Speaker 2>came to Robin Hurt Safari's a little later on in

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<v Speaker 2>my career.

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<v Speaker 5>Uh.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I guess I was thirty thirty three, thirty four

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<v Speaker 2>or something like that. And I've been doing this for

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<v Speaker 2>thirteen years now.

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<v Speaker 4>So did they have you just carrying water at first?

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<v Speaker 2>Whatnot? Did you get to jump right in? You know,

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<v Speaker 2>it was a lot of following and kind of you know,

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<v Speaker 2>Rhyana is one of these guys. I mean, I'm kind

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<v Speaker 2>of interested in your take on this because he was

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<v Speaker 2>one of the guys that I take. Yeah, well your

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<v Speaker 2>take on like what a genius hunter, like, if there's

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<v Speaker 2>like a genius hunter, if there's a level there? I

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<v Speaker 2>think so too, And like the way, well the way

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<v Speaker 2>I define it. I think it's the same. I read

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<v Speaker 2>an article about a math genius one time and he

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<v Speaker 2>was describing it as like, yeah, he has to work

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<v Speaker 2>hard and that's the ideal, but really generally like math

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<v Speaker 2>is just super easy for him and like makes it

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<v Speaker 2>look easy. And this guy Ryana Yosh to me, was

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<v Speaker 2>like that kind of hunter where he just he made

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<v Speaker 2>what everyone else had to really work out just look

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<v Speaker 2>easy when he was doing it. So I kind of

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<v Speaker 2>had had the opportunity to learn from him, which was

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<v Speaker 2>a big deal. And then a couple years later I

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<v Speaker 2>got my license, kind of went out on my own

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<v Speaker 2>for a bit. You did work for some other people. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>there was at that time there was a reshuffling of

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<v Speaker 2>hunting areas in Tanzania and kind of Ryina found himself

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<v Speaker 2>sort of you know, I guess caught caught out in

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<v Speaker 2>the in the open, not sure where he was going

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<v Speaker 2>to go next because his the outfit he was working

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<v Speaker 2>with kind of lost their area. So that sort of

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<v Speaker 2>put me in limbo as well. So I ended up

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<v Speaker 2>kind of doing doing a season in the salou kind

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<v Speaker 2>of with my own clients. That was really interesting and

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<v Speaker 2>it kind of happened early in my career, and I

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<v Speaker 2>learned a lot from that. It was kind of just

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<v Speaker 2>being on my own, not having anyone to really follow

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<v Speaker 2>around anymore. I learned a lot by by making mistakes,

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<v Speaker 2>to be honest, Oh, kind of kind of screwing up.

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<v Speaker 5>And it's the best way to learn.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it is. And I'm sure there's some former clients

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<v Speaker 2>of mine out there who might disagree with that, But yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>I like to think I came out of it, you know, better,

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<v Speaker 2>better at what I do. But it was it was tough,

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<v Speaker 2>It was interesting.

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<v Speaker 4>So how did how did you guys come to be

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<v Speaker 4>colleagues in.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, interestingly enough, Roger's older brother and I were kind

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<v Speaker 2>of I always I sort of. I mean, the name

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<v Speaker 2>Robin Hurt. If you're interested in African hunting, and particularly

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<v Speaker 2>the East African tradition, you're going to know that name

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<v Speaker 2>because Roger's dad is probably the most famous living African

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<v Speaker 2>professional hunter now, a guy who's literally had a license

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<v Speaker 2>for sixty years and came up in the Golden Age.

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<v Speaker 2>Really the kind of the second Golden Age, I like

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<v Speaker 2>to call it, kind of the resurgence of African hunting

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<v Speaker 2>after the second was Teddy Roosevelt, the first gold nage.

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<v Speaker 2>Roosevelt was the first Golden Age in my view, Well.

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<v Speaker 4>You could hemingway it was the second Golden Age.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you could kind of argue that, like the guys

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<v Speaker 2>that kind of really explored Africa and the kind of

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<v Speaker 2>black Powder era were sort of I mean what they.

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<v Speaker 5>Saw even Livingstone.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, those guys exactly that whole vibe, so that those

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<v Speaker 2>guys really explored a totally untamed continent. But and Roger

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<v Speaker 2>and I always have this kind of back and forward

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<v Speaker 2>dialogue about if we could go back in time, like

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<v Speaker 2>when what era? And I always say that era in

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<v Speaker 2>Roger's like, oh, you would have died a malaria about it,

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<v Speaker 2>like you would have died of some tropical disease things

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<v Speaker 2>into your trip.

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<v Speaker 5>I think my dad basically started in the prime of

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<v Speaker 5>African hunting basically where it wasn't dangerous, but it was

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<v Speaker 5>still well dangerous from a medical point of view. You

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<v Speaker 5>weren't going to die of yellow fever or you know

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<v Speaker 5>all the other diseases. But the hunting was just phenomenal.

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<v Speaker 5>The wilderness was pristine. I mean, it was what you're

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<v Speaker 5>doing that was sixty years back.

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<v Speaker 2>So yeah, I'd say the fifties sixties or Hammingway Second

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<v Speaker 2>Golden Age? Did it anywhere ever? Hunt with your dad's outfit?

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<v Speaker 5>No, he didn't.

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<v Speaker 2>He had one guy. He had Philip Percival, who was

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<v Speaker 2>actually on the Roosevelt safari as a young man wow,

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<v Speaker 2>and was on Hemingway's guided Hemingway as an old man,

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<v Speaker 2>which is fascinating. So like guys like Perceval kind of bridged.

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<v Speaker 2>The two took took some time out to go fight

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<v Speaker 2>the First World War, you know, maybe some of them

0:11:12.800 --> 0:11:14.760
<v Speaker 2>some of them were involved in the Second World War two,

0:11:15.160 --> 0:11:17.040
<v Speaker 2>and then kind of like came back into.

0:11:16.800 --> 0:11:19.280
<v Speaker 4>The song the same dude. There's there's a dude that

0:11:19.600 --> 0:11:25.160
<v Speaker 4>guided Teddy Roosevelt on his big yeah, like it has

0:11:25.160 --> 0:11:29.199
<v Speaker 4>a big crazy museum collection. And then turned around and

0:11:29.320 --> 0:11:34.200
<v Speaker 4>also with Hemingway, Yep, Philip. If we liked better like

0:11:34.240 --> 0:11:35.400
<v Speaker 4>tr better man.

0:11:35.440 --> 0:11:38.559
<v Speaker 2>I think tr probably, I think Ta. Both of them

0:11:38.559 --> 0:11:41.280
<v Speaker 2>were marcho men right in my I like I guess

0:11:41.280 --> 0:11:43.920
<v Speaker 2>in my reading of them both they were kind of

0:11:43.960 --> 0:11:46.160
<v Speaker 2>like sort of tough guys.

0:11:46.320 --> 0:11:49.240
<v Speaker 5>But to have been part of that Roosevelt's sorry just

0:11:49.240 --> 0:11:52.480
<v Speaker 5>would have been an experience for lifetime and the people involved,

0:11:52.480 --> 0:11:53.880
<v Speaker 5>they had like a hundred porters.

0:11:54.040 --> 0:11:55.480
<v Speaker 6>I mean it was oh yeah, it was not a

0:11:55.880 --> 0:11:56.920
<v Speaker 6>small imprint.

0:11:57.160 --> 0:12:00.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. No. And the places they went, I mean they

0:12:00.200 --> 0:12:02.920
<v Speaker 2>went all over East Africa. I mean it's just incredible.

0:12:02.960 --> 0:12:05.200
<v Speaker 5>He would have had stories for a lifetime off that one.

0:12:05.360 --> 0:12:09.320
<v Speaker 6>Farry, Oh yeah, a small tangent. Have you ever read

0:12:09.520 --> 0:12:10.360
<v Speaker 6>West with the Night?

0:12:10.800 --> 0:12:12.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Beryl maas.

0:12:12.160 --> 0:12:14.600
<v Speaker 6>Beryl holy Cats. That's a great one.

0:12:14.679 --> 0:12:17.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, a good one. Beryl hard Call. Yeah.

0:12:17.679 --> 0:12:23.520
<v Speaker 6>And the female right female, Yeah, pilot and spotting big

0:12:23.679 --> 0:12:27.080
<v Speaker 6>tusked elephants out there. And I just don't hear that

0:12:27.080 --> 0:12:28.280
<v Speaker 6>book reference very often.

0:12:29.480 --> 0:12:33.599
<v Speaker 2>We had Roger.

0:12:35.360 --> 0:12:37.520
<v Speaker 5>I used to work with our company, used to be

0:12:37.559 --> 0:12:38.880
<v Speaker 5>our sort of main marketing man.

0:12:40.080 --> 0:12:40.720
<v Speaker 6>That awesome.

0:12:40.800 --> 0:12:43.120
<v Speaker 5>Beryl Markham's great grandsons.

0:12:42.720 --> 0:12:46.199
<v Speaker 2>Okay, a lot of it's all connected.

0:12:45.960 --> 0:12:49.920
<v Speaker 5>And ken or everyone's sort of connected it their day.

0:12:50.000 --> 0:12:52.040
<v Speaker 4>Krin I were talking about when I was telling her

0:12:52.080 --> 0:12:56.719
<v Speaker 4>originally about you, after we met, after you guys came

0:12:56.720 --> 0:12:59.600
<v Speaker 4>for dinner, I'll tell Krin about you, and we got

0:12:59.600 --> 0:13:04.160
<v Speaker 4>the I use the word convalescing, yes, And we're talking

0:13:04.160 --> 0:13:07.960
<v Speaker 4>about how no one uses the word convalescing. I said,

0:13:07.960 --> 0:13:14.320
<v Speaker 4>he's like convalescing. He's convalescing in the US. The snot

0:13:14.400 --> 0:13:17.360
<v Speaker 4>kicked out of him by Kate Buffalo. Yeah, I guess

0:13:17.360 --> 0:13:20.320
<v Speaker 4>that's have you been you're convalescing.

0:13:20.880 --> 0:13:22.160
<v Speaker 5>No, I've not used that exactly.

0:13:24.920 --> 0:13:26.680
<v Speaker 4>So we got to touch on a couple of things,

0:13:26.679 --> 0:13:28.400
<v Speaker 4>and then we're gonna come back and I want to

0:13:28.480 --> 0:13:30.200
<v Speaker 4>we're gonna talk about I want you to tell the

0:13:30.200 --> 0:13:32.280
<v Speaker 4>story getting by a Kate Buffalo.

0:13:32.480 --> 0:13:35.360
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, the impact to that who's still alive, he still lies,

0:13:35.440 --> 0:13:37.880
<v Speaker 5>still out that you didn't go try to find him. Oh,

0:13:37.920 --> 0:13:38.679
<v Speaker 5>I'm definitely gonna go.

0:13:41.920 --> 0:13:43.559
<v Speaker 4>Well, we'll get into that story because it's a good

0:13:43.559 --> 0:13:46.080
<v Speaker 4>story and and you'll you can explain how when you

0:13:46.120 --> 0:13:49.800
<v Speaker 4>see him, you'll know, Yeah, you'll recognize someone.

0:13:50.800 --> 0:13:52.880
<v Speaker 5>He's ingrained in my in my head.

0:13:52.720 --> 0:13:58.880
<v Speaker 2>He's got his head pretty much. Oh you know.

0:13:59.200 --> 0:14:02.360
<v Speaker 4>So here's here's the thing that happened that we covered.

0:14:03.520 --> 0:14:07.640
<v Speaker 4>We covered a guy he's something of a repeat offender

0:14:07.679 --> 0:14:11.559
<v Speaker 4>I believe, who was up in Jackson Hole, down in

0:14:11.640 --> 0:14:18.040
<v Speaker 4>Jackson Hole, wyhoelming shed hunting prior to shed season and

0:14:18.080 --> 0:14:23.440
<v Speaker 4>he got busted by a whelming fishing game. He had

0:14:23.440 --> 0:14:26.400
<v Speaker 4>been going out and uh like pre hunting.

0:14:27.880 --> 0:14:30.920
<v Speaker 2>Wasn't that right out of out of season?

0:14:31.080 --> 0:14:34.800
<v Speaker 4>He was pre hunting, making little stash piles and then

0:14:35.040 --> 0:14:37.480
<v Speaker 4>he'd make a little cash and then when season opened,

0:14:37.520 --> 0:14:39.840
<v Speaker 4>you just go in and pick up your cash. But

0:14:39.920 --> 0:14:44.000
<v Speaker 4>he was also in the field hacking chew toys, so

0:14:44.080 --> 0:14:47.200
<v Speaker 4>he was cutting his He was cutting elk antlers into

0:14:47.240 --> 0:14:49.960
<v Speaker 4>chew toys out in the field, probably for easier transport,

0:14:49.960 --> 0:14:52.640
<v Speaker 4>because you imagine, you imagine you take a big ass backpack.

0:14:53.880 --> 0:14:55.920
<v Speaker 4>I mean, once you whack him up, dude, you'd have

0:14:56.560 --> 0:14:57.160
<v Speaker 4>well just think.

0:14:58.920 --> 0:15:01.720
<v Speaker 6>This is like an old guide joke, but it is

0:15:02.520 --> 0:15:05.480
<v Speaker 6>repeated in many circles. You know, if you want me

0:15:05.520 --> 0:15:07.280
<v Speaker 6>to make that load easier on here, we just cut

0:15:07.280 --> 0:15:10.800
<v Speaker 6>those antlers off. You just lop off a couple of

0:15:10.800 --> 0:15:12.560
<v Speaker 6>these points and I'll pack a lot easier.

0:15:13.480 --> 0:15:17.320
<v Speaker 4>So this is someone rode in. They're like, hey, I

0:15:17.320 --> 0:15:20.120
<v Speaker 4>wanted to let you know about what happened with the

0:15:20.160 --> 0:15:26.360
<v Speaker 4>antlers that were confiscated Woming fishing game went out and

0:15:26.440 --> 0:15:29.280
<v Speaker 4>just put it, went out and strewed them. Is that

0:15:29.320 --> 0:15:33.479
<v Speaker 4>a word strewed? I know you can strew something something

0:15:33.520 --> 0:15:34.280
<v Speaker 4>strewn around.

0:15:34.720 --> 0:15:41.440
<v Speaker 7>Yeah, I think that's a past He's let's say I'm

0:15:41.440 --> 0:15:43.120
<v Speaker 7>gonna go out and strew around.

0:15:43.880 --> 0:15:47.120
<v Speaker 4>You didn't say that. Yeah, yesterday I went out and

0:15:47.160 --> 0:15:48.120
<v Speaker 4>strewed around some.

0:15:48.520 --> 0:15:54.400
<v Speaker 7>They littered the mountain broadcasts, so like the mountain, the

0:15:54.480 --> 0:15:56.440
<v Speaker 7>hillside was strewn with ye.

0:15:56.920 --> 0:16:03.600
<v Speaker 4>But yeah, I'm just gonna go. Strewed sounds like a soup,

0:16:03.920 --> 0:16:06.120
<v Speaker 4>a kind of soup you might make. I made some

0:16:06.160 --> 0:16:07.320
<v Speaker 4>strewed last night.

0:16:07.600 --> 0:16:12.160
<v Speaker 2>They went out and strewed around all the antlers back

0:16:12.160 --> 0:16:13.000
<v Speaker 2>out into the woods.

0:16:13.000 --> 0:16:17.240
<v Speaker 4>They redistributed them in the mountains so that people could

0:16:17.360 --> 0:16:20.440
<v Speaker 4>have the joy of finding them. But a guy sends

0:16:20.480 --> 0:16:22.480
<v Speaker 4>a picture in and they were out on opening day

0:16:22.520 --> 0:16:26.160
<v Speaker 4>picking them up, and they were and he in his

0:16:26.200 --> 0:16:28.720
<v Speaker 4>little gripping grin of him and all the stuff he

0:16:28.760 --> 0:16:33.160
<v Speaker 4>picked up that day, he has the chunks. They just

0:16:33.520 --> 0:16:38.080
<v Speaker 4>flicked the chunks around toys as well, so when opening

0:16:38.200 --> 0:16:40.560
<v Speaker 4>day came, you could wander around and you could.

0:16:40.440 --> 0:16:44.240
<v Speaker 2>Find It's like an Easter egg, like an Easter egg

0:16:44.320 --> 0:16:46.800
<v Speaker 2>hunt with antlers.

0:16:45.240 --> 0:16:51.480
<v Speaker 4>It's a great idea, but it's like, uh, here's part

0:16:51.480 --> 0:16:52.920
<v Speaker 4>of the problem. It's the same way that I wouldn't

0:16:52.920 --> 0:16:57.080
<v Speaker 4>want to shoot a deer with a collar on it,

0:16:57.600 --> 0:17:00.040
<v Speaker 4>because it would be that it had been touched, it

0:17:00.080 --> 0:17:03.680
<v Speaker 4>had been soiled by man. So people don't hold that

0:17:03.760 --> 0:17:06.000
<v Speaker 4>perspective as every time we talk about this, We talk

0:17:06.040 --> 0:17:09.920
<v Speaker 4>about how that perspective is not extended ducks, because getting

0:17:09.920 --> 0:17:13.920
<v Speaker 4>a banded duck is sweet, Getting a banded duck is great.

0:17:14.160 --> 0:17:16.679
<v Speaker 4>Getting a deer with a collar on it is not great.

0:17:17.920 --> 0:17:20.439
<v Speaker 4>I can't explain why. You just have to trust me.

0:17:21.440 --> 0:17:27.359
<v Speaker 4>So to go out shed hunting and pick up chew toys,

0:17:28.520 --> 0:17:30.359
<v Speaker 4>I would feel like there was I would feel that

0:17:30.480 --> 0:17:32.360
<v Speaker 4>it'd just be not as exciting.

0:17:33.400 --> 0:17:35.560
<v Speaker 2>To give you one intending to make a chew toy

0:17:36.000 --> 0:17:38.800
<v Speaker 2>with your shed. Ultimately you'd feel a little bit well,

0:17:38.840 --> 0:17:39.479
<v Speaker 2>a bit jipped.

0:17:39.560 --> 0:17:42.480
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, it'd be that it got picked up, it got

0:17:42.480 --> 0:17:45.800
<v Speaker 4>caught up, it got confiscated, it got put back out.

0:17:45.920 --> 0:17:49.040
<v Speaker 4>It would just feel like it wasn't like like, for instance,

0:17:49.080 --> 0:17:53.200
<v Speaker 4>if you are out hunting morels, it's it's sixty percent

0:17:53.359 --> 0:17:55.240
<v Speaker 4>it's forty percent that morels is good to eat and

0:17:55.280 --> 0:17:57.040
<v Speaker 4>sixty percent this fun to find morels.

0:17:57.119 --> 0:17:58.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, right, So if you went.

0:17:58.600 --> 0:18:02.000
<v Speaker 4>Out and found like morels that were just cut and

0:18:02.040 --> 0:18:06.280
<v Speaker 4>set out in a little box, different, it'd be like

0:18:06.359 --> 0:18:07.280
<v Speaker 4>it just be different.

0:18:07.359 --> 0:18:08.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, hallout of victory fish.

0:18:08.680 --> 0:18:09.920
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, some guys like.

0:18:10.040 --> 0:18:12.760
<v Speaker 4>I found these, but I put them back out in

0:18:12.800 --> 0:18:14.760
<v Speaker 4>a box. And then you find them, you wouldn't feel

0:18:14.760 --> 0:18:15.600
<v Speaker 4>like you found them ll.

0:18:16.119 --> 0:18:17.919
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, no, I can see that it'd be that you.

0:18:18.320 --> 0:18:19.439
<v Speaker 2>I don't know, it just be different.

0:18:19.600 --> 0:18:21.800
<v Speaker 7>Could you conceive of it as like a separate thing,

0:18:22.040 --> 0:18:25.480
<v Speaker 7>Like there's the sheds that you might find, and then

0:18:25.520 --> 0:18:28.879
<v Speaker 7>there's oh, I got some free chew toys for my

0:18:28.920 --> 0:18:30.320
<v Speaker 7>dog that I don't have to buy the pet star

0:18:30.400 --> 0:18:30.680
<v Speaker 7>And if.

0:18:30.600 --> 0:18:34.120
<v Speaker 4>You're taking commercially, If you're taking commercially, there's still just that.

0:18:34.200 --> 0:18:37.719
<v Speaker 4>I'm just like, I don't I I would pick them up.

0:18:37.760 --> 0:18:39.600
<v Speaker 2>I'm all for it. I think it was a great idea.

0:18:39.960 --> 0:18:42.199
<v Speaker 4>It was better than putting them in a It was

0:18:42.240 --> 0:18:46.680
<v Speaker 4>better than putting them in a in a fishing game,

0:18:47.520 --> 0:18:51.800
<v Speaker 4>auction garage somewhere like whatever, like better than all that

0:18:52.000 --> 0:18:54.200
<v Speaker 4>just just struck me as peculiar.

0:18:54.480 --> 0:18:56.760
<v Speaker 2>Oh you know what's uh, let me point this out.

0:18:56.840 --> 0:18:59.919
<v Speaker 6>So did you guys cover the fine and then the

0:19:00.040 --> 0:19:02.880
<v Speaker 6>failure to pay the first fine? No, this guy's deep

0:19:02.920 --> 0:19:06.200
<v Speaker 6>into it. Yeah, I mean he tell me his first round.

0:19:06.359 --> 0:19:10.280
<v Speaker 6>He's a Bosangelus cap too, that's where his OAP business

0:19:10.359 --> 0:19:13.639
<v Speaker 6>is based. But so he was ordered to pay a

0:19:13.680 --> 0:19:18.240
<v Speaker 6>ten thousand dollars fine the first time around and never

0:19:18.280 --> 0:19:22.680
<v Speaker 6>paid it, so that's why they tacked on. I think

0:19:22.840 --> 0:19:28.159
<v Speaker 6>ninety days a house arrest plus an additional fifteen K

0:19:28.280 --> 0:19:30.439
<v Speaker 6>and fines I think is what it came down to.

0:19:30.600 --> 0:19:35.400
<v Speaker 6>So pretty pretty steep. But yeah, I love the fact

0:19:35.440 --> 0:19:37.880
<v Speaker 6>they strewn about those antlers out there.

0:19:38.440 --> 0:19:41.320
<v Speaker 2>He'd have to say, I could pay my fine if

0:19:41.320 --> 0:19:44.800
<v Speaker 2>I can go get my antlers. Right, what do you

0:19:44.880 --> 0:19:47.320
<v Speaker 2>guys want the money?

0:19:48.280 --> 0:19:51.440
<v Speaker 4>Because that's that's where all my assets are tied.

0:19:51.280 --> 0:19:51.760
<v Speaker 2>Up right now.

0:19:53.720 --> 0:19:54.960
<v Speaker 6>I'm not exactly liquid.

0:19:56.080 --> 0:19:59.720
<v Speaker 2>I got the liquidity issue. I'm still wrapping my head

0:19:59.720 --> 0:20:01.719
<v Speaker 2>around the shed hunting thing, to be honest.

0:20:02.040 --> 0:20:03.920
<v Speaker 6>Oh yeah, I'm crazy.

0:20:04.119 --> 0:20:05.680
<v Speaker 2>Just how into it people are.

0:20:05.720 --> 0:20:09.720
<v Speaker 4>Well, you know why you don't understand it because in Africa,

0:20:09.760 --> 0:20:11.520
<v Speaker 4>you guys don't have any servants.

0:20:11.520 --> 0:20:14.960
<v Speaker 2>Nothing sheds, nothing sheds, nothing sheds. It's a good point.

0:20:15.800 --> 0:20:21.320
<v Speaker 5>It's fun when you find a dead skull. There's a

0:20:21.400 --> 0:20:22.159
<v Speaker 5>name for that too, is.

0:20:24.000 --> 0:20:25.520
<v Speaker 2>What skull shirt.

0:20:25.800 --> 0:20:27.960
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, you find a whole skull.

0:20:27.880 --> 0:20:30.399
<v Speaker 2>Like an old skull. Way of putting it.

0:20:30.440 --> 0:20:33.680
<v Speaker 5>I mean occasionally, like when you find a sixty five

0:20:33.720 --> 0:20:37.040
<v Speaker 5>inch koodoo that's been killed by a lion and it's

0:20:37.160 --> 0:20:38.640
<v Speaker 5>just such an impressive.

0:20:38.200 --> 0:20:40.200
<v Speaker 2>Head, And do you keep that kind of stuff.

0:20:40.240 --> 0:20:41.680
<v Speaker 5>Well, we put them in the camp. We're not allowed

0:20:41.680 --> 0:20:43.639
<v Speaker 5>to take them home or whatever, but we keep them

0:20:43.680 --> 0:20:47.439
<v Speaker 5>within the area. You definitely pick it up, so.

0:20:46.800 --> 0:20:49.919
<v Speaker 2>You just you redistribute him over to your camp. Yeah,

0:20:50.480 --> 0:20:52.119
<v Speaker 2>I think that should be our next T shirt.

0:20:52.160 --> 0:20:55.160
<v Speaker 6>Steve is dead head, but you know, obviously a play

0:20:55.200 --> 0:20:57.960
<v Speaker 6>on the Grateful Dead. You know they're a little dancing bears.

0:20:59.480 --> 0:21:05.240
<v Speaker 7>On how did we never think of that? I am

0:21:05.880 --> 0:21:08.840
<v Speaker 7>going to talk to anything's not going to Instagram.

0:21:08.960 --> 0:21:11.640
<v Speaker 4>The last genius idea we had. We made the stupid

0:21:11.680 --> 0:21:13.520
<v Speaker 4>mistake of checking and if fame wouldn't had it. But

0:21:13.600 --> 0:21:17.800
<v Speaker 4>everyone's had everything. Yeah, yeah, you really all your idea

0:21:17.800 --> 0:21:18.520
<v Speaker 4>has already been taking.

0:21:18.520 --> 0:21:20.760
<v Speaker 8>I brought up the shed head idea with those bears

0:21:20.760 --> 0:21:24.480
<v Speaker 8>when Denimanti was on the shed crazy guy, did you did?

0:21:25.200 --> 0:21:27.200
<v Speaker 8>No one remembers a thing that happens in this realm

0:21:29.520 --> 0:21:32.520
<v Speaker 8>Izuro servant.

0:21:34.040 --> 0:21:36.160
<v Speaker 6>Yeah that's yeah.

0:21:36.680 --> 0:21:42.280
<v Speaker 2>The Sahara there's one, there's not what is it, Bobbery,

0:21:42.840 --> 0:21:47.119
<v Speaker 2>No Barbary. They have a red stag where North Africa

0:21:47.320 --> 0:21:51.320
<v Speaker 2>from there. Yeah, I'm gonna say that there was, you know,

0:21:51.440 --> 0:21:54.800
<v Speaker 2>some kind of land bridge with Europe at some point.

0:21:55.640 --> 0:21:58.200
<v Speaker 2>I believe that for a second. Let's yeah, let's look

0:21:58.200 --> 0:21:58.520
<v Speaker 2>into it.

0:21:58.680 --> 0:21:59.639
<v Speaker 6>Barbary Stag.

0:22:02.920 --> 0:22:06.360
<v Speaker 4>On a recent episode, I went on, I was real

0:22:06.480 --> 0:22:10.240
<v Speaker 4>fired up about Gordon Lightfoot's death. Goy sent us this

0:22:10.320 --> 0:22:13.359
<v Speaker 4>great picture taken in July nineteen sixty one.

0:22:13.720 --> 0:22:14.960
<v Speaker 6>Native to North Africa.

0:22:15.000 --> 0:22:18.880
<v Speaker 2>Steve, there we go. I meant the other part.

0:22:20.600 --> 0:22:23.120
<v Speaker 6>Algeria to Tunisia and Morocco.

0:22:23.920 --> 0:22:26.760
<v Speaker 4>That's where my that's where my ancestors are from two

0:22:26.840 --> 0:22:30.400
<v Speaker 4>percent of them.

0:22:30.600 --> 0:22:32.919
<v Speaker 6>That's where you have that big flag and tattoo and stuff.

0:22:35.480 --> 0:22:38.400
<v Speaker 4>So I went on a big rip about Gordon Lightfoot

0:22:38.440 --> 0:22:39.960
<v Speaker 4>and the wreck of the Edvan Fitzgerald. And this dude

0:22:40.000 --> 0:22:43.920
<v Speaker 4>sent this great picture in taken in July nineteen sixty one.

0:22:45.240 --> 0:22:48.840
<v Speaker 4>His grandpa was on a car ferry in Duluth, Minnesota,

0:22:48.840 --> 0:22:52.160
<v Speaker 4>and he's got like his station wagon on a car

0:22:52.200 --> 0:22:57.440
<v Speaker 4>ferry and in the background, uh, there's the Edmond Fitzgerald

0:22:58.760 --> 0:23:03.080
<v Speaker 4>floating by. And he later wrote, and this guy carries

0:23:03.119 --> 0:23:05.000
<v Speaker 4>this the guy that wrote in carries his photo in

0:23:05.040 --> 0:23:13.280
<v Speaker 4>his wallet. He later wrote, built June eight, nineteen fifty eight,

0:23:13.359 --> 0:23:17.719
<v Speaker 4>or christened June eight, nineteen fifty eight, sunk November ten,

0:23:17.880 --> 0:23:24.760
<v Speaker 4>seventy five, brought up Gordon Lightfoot sink of the Edmund

0:23:24.760 --> 0:23:29.439
<v Speaker 4>Fitzgerald and then has the specks of the ship written

0:23:29.440 --> 0:23:32.560
<v Speaker 4>on it, just like caught, like the Edmund fitz photo

0:23:32.640 --> 0:23:35.560
<v Speaker 4>bombed his grandpa's picture show.

0:23:35.840 --> 0:23:37.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, another you know.

0:23:37.480 --> 0:23:41.040
<v Speaker 4>Also the guys from uh, the guys from Old Town

0:23:41.080 --> 0:23:46.240
<v Speaker 4>wrote in, and I didn't know this Gordon tune. Gorge's

0:23:46.240 --> 0:23:50.840
<v Speaker 4>got a tune called the Yellow Canoe. If you're dead,

0:23:50.880 --> 0:23:52.159
<v Speaker 4>do you have a tune or did.

0:23:52.000 --> 0:23:54.199
<v Speaker 2>You have a tune? That's another we should have a

0:23:54.200 --> 0:23:55.080
<v Speaker 2>staff linguist.

0:23:55.160 --> 0:23:55.440
<v Speaker 5>I don't know.

0:23:55.480 --> 0:23:58.640
<v Speaker 6>I feel like that's an in perpetuity thing. You have.

0:23:59.600 --> 0:24:02.120
<v Speaker 7>Gorge got his PhD in English, so we should probably.

0:24:02.119 --> 0:24:03.560
<v Speaker 4>Oh yeah, r do you know that you're not the

0:24:03.560 --> 0:24:05.040
<v Speaker 4>only PhD around here?

0:24:05.119 --> 0:24:05.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:24:05.320 --> 0:24:06.280
<v Speaker 5>I'm thrilled by that.

0:24:06.600 --> 0:24:07.399
<v Speaker 2>I'm thrilled by that.

0:24:07.520 --> 0:24:09.280
<v Speaker 4>Do you guys know doctor Randall?

0:24:09.359 --> 0:24:11.640
<v Speaker 2>Doctor rand not really?

0:24:16.359 --> 0:24:16.439
<v Speaker 8>So?

0:24:16.920 --> 0:24:21.400
<v Speaker 2>Uh the hell's that? Talking about God? Lightfoot? The Yellow Canoe?

0:24:21.640 --> 0:24:24.840
<v Speaker 4>So Gord had a canoe. He wrote a song called

0:24:24.840 --> 0:24:27.000
<v Speaker 4>the Yellow Canoe must not be that great. I never

0:24:27.040 --> 0:24:29.320
<v Speaker 4>heard it either way. This yellow Canoe winds up in

0:24:29.320 --> 0:24:33.920
<v Speaker 4>a museum in Canada, and I had a serial number

0:24:33.920 --> 0:24:37.080
<v Speaker 4>on it. And Old Town was like, Hey, what's the

0:24:37.080 --> 0:24:39.480
<v Speaker 4>serial number on Gorde's canoe, because Gorde's canoe was an

0:24:39.480 --> 0:24:41.359
<v Speaker 4>old town canoe. And they were to pull up like

0:24:41.400 --> 0:24:43.040
<v Speaker 4>I don't know what the hell date it was made,

0:24:43.080 --> 0:24:46.359
<v Speaker 4>and they and and uh they used to keep me.

0:24:46.520 --> 0:24:49.280
<v Speaker 4>They sent a photo. They used to have this like

0:24:49.320 --> 0:24:52.679
<v Speaker 4>what this is like obviously pre digital, right, they have

0:24:52.760 --> 0:24:58.119
<v Speaker 4>this giant wall full of cedar boxes and each cedar

0:24:58.160 --> 0:25:03.199
<v Speaker 4>box is sort of like the purchase registration for every canoe,

0:25:03.280 --> 0:25:04.840
<v Speaker 4>and it's this huge wall.

0:25:05.160 --> 0:25:08.080
<v Speaker 2>It's like an English gun maker English could they have

0:25:08.119 --> 0:25:11.720
<v Speaker 2>the same thing, big huge ledger books with everyone, every order,

0:25:11.840 --> 0:25:13.760
<v Speaker 2>every yeah.

0:25:13.240 --> 0:25:15.119
<v Speaker 4>All stored in these cute little boxes. So when they

0:25:15.119 --> 0:25:17.800
<v Speaker 4>found out Gord's canoe, now where they could go down

0:25:17.840 --> 0:25:23.040
<v Speaker 4>to these cute little boxes, pull up the.

0:25:21.359 --> 0:25:26.720
<v Speaker 2>The see the original specs. When interesting that that shipwreck song.

0:25:26.760 --> 0:25:29.440
<v Speaker 2>I think everyone I know from the Midwest kind of

0:25:29.480 --> 0:25:32.040
<v Speaker 2>gets a little misty eyed when that one comes on.

0:25:32.280 --> 0:25:34.200
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, it's a big deal for you guys.

0:25:34.280 --> 0:25:36.200
<v Speaker 4>You got in Australia, you guys in tear up about that.

0:25:36.440 --> 0:25:40.359
<v Speaker 2>No, I didn't have the same uh the same same

0:25:40.440 --> 0:25:42.520
<v Speaker 2>pull to it. I mean it's a good song. I

0:25:42.520 --> 0:25:44.400
<v Speaker 2>think we could appreciate it objectively.

0:25:44.560 --> 0:25:48.800
<v Speaker 5>But we had everyone in Kenya that.

0:25:48.880 --> 0:25:59.440
<v Speaker 4>Was here's a here's another not interesting. Say it again,

0:26:00.119 --> 0:26:02.440
<v Speaker 4>witka Oh No, I didn't catch what you said.

0:26:03.040 --> 0:26:04.680
<v Speaker 5>Was saying in Africa he was. He was the one

0:26:04.680 --> 0:26:07.239
<v Speaker 5>that made you miss the eye and whose songs were

0:26:07.680 --> 0:26:08.359
<v Speaker 5>He was a singer.

0:26:09.240 --> 0:26:11.720
<v Speaker 2>But what was his did he have like a shipwreck?

0:26:11.720 --> 0:26:13.960
<v Speaker 5>I dreamed of Africa and things like that was a

0:26:14.000 --> 0:26:15.280
<v Speaker 5>little Africa.

0:26:15.840 --> 0:26:21.040
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, but he didn't document shipwrecks night like, he didn't

0:26:21.080 --> 0:26:22.720
<v Speaker 4>document a tragedy or something.

0:26:23.880 --> 0:26:26.159
<v Speaker 5>Just he was sort of like he was if you

0:26:26.200 --> 0:26:28.480
<v Speaker 5>lived in Africa, you know, all the songs had to

0:26:28.520 --> 0:26:29.920
<v Speaker 5>the meaning and I.

0:26:29.920 --> 0:26:38.040
<v Speaker 6>Was literally like a wreck on uh like like Victoria.

0:26:37.720 --> 0:26:40.600
<v Speaker 5>Yeah or something like that exactly.

0:26:40.680 --> 0:26:43.000
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, yeah, which I'm sure there have been.

0:26:43.840 --> 0:26:48.040
<v Speaker 4>You should throw in a chunk say the gentleman's name again, Roger.

0:26:48.440 --> 0:26:49.520
<v Speaker 2>What language did you work in?

0:26:49.800 --> 0:26:50.639
<v Speaker 5>English?

0:26:50.720 --> 0:26:51.600
<v Speaker 2>Throwing a chunk? Phil?

0:26:51.720 --> 0:26:54.040
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, Well you want a hole more feedback fill.

0:26:54.080 --> 0:26:54.639
<v Speaker 2>Give it to me.

0:26:57.280 --> 0:26:59.000
<v Speaker 4>When you put in that chunk of the d fits,

0:26:59.040 --> 0:27:00.479
<v Speaker 4>I didn't think it sounded the sound call.

0:27:00.520 --> 0:27:01.280
<v Speaker 2>It didn't sound great to me.

0:27:01.400 --> 0:27:03.439
<v Speaker 8>That's because I was playing it over my cell phone

0:27:03.600 --> 0:27:06.040
<v Speaker 8>into a microphone in the room. Because you just told

0:27:06.040 --> 0:27:08.679
<v Speaker 8>me to play the I didn't have my picture.

0:27:08.680 --> 0:27:10.639
<v Speaker 2>You're coming back in later on and really getting her

0:27:10.680 --> 0:27:13.199
<v Speaker 2>in there. I'll do that next time. I apologize.

0:27:13.200 --> 0:27:16.560
<v Speaker 4>So with this fella, let's get him in nice and clean, Phil.

0:27:16.440 --> 0:27:18.520
<v Speaker 2>We'll do yeah, done, blow it with this one, you.

0:27:18.640 --> 0:27:21.240
<v Speaker 6>Know, ma ighty sing.

0:27:23.680 --> 0:27:35.040
<v Speaker 9>So warm and wild and free you always.

0:27:35.480 --> 0:27:38.520
<v Speaker 4>We've been covering the kangaroo leather debacle heavily.

0:27:38.600 --> 0:27:41.399
<v Speaker 2>Oh you'll appreciate this. Oh, I'm sure from Australia, I haven't.

0:27:41.600 --> 0:27:42.800
<v Speaker 5>I'm not across this one.

0:27:42.920 --> 0:27:46.800
<v Speaker 4>Well, people in America are getting real riled up about

0:27:47.320 --> 0:27:48.560
<v Speaker 4>They don't want to no one to be using no

0:27:48.680 --> 0:27:49.840
<v Speaker 4>kangaroo leather for nothing.

0:27:49.880 --> 0:27:53.680
<v Speaker 6>You could say they're hopping mad.

0:27:54.000 --> 0:27:54.800
<v Speaker 2>All fired up.

0:27:54.880 --> 0:28:00.000
<v Speaker 4>Even a sposh Picee was there.

0:28:00.160 --> 0:28:03.679
<v Speaker 2>So close Victoria Beckham, Yes, even.

0:28:03.480 --> 0:28:07.200
<v Speaker 4>She is like the person. Yeah yeah, well you know

0:28:07.240 --> 0:28:10.520
<v Speaker 4>what else she is. She also is a famous soccer

0:28:10.560 --> 0:28:12.960
<v Speaker 4>player's better half.

0:28:13.960 --> 0:28:18.760
<v Speaker 6>My buddy Will used to make super fancy denim jeans

0:28:19.280 --> 0:28:23.720
<v Speaker 6>and his claim to fame was David Beckham wore his jeans.

0:28:23.440 --> 0:28:25.040
<v Speaker 2>He should have made them out of kangaroo leather.

0:28:25.119 --> 0:28:26.520
<v Speaker 5>Yeah.

0:28:26.560 --> 0:28:29.879
<v Speaker 4>Well, bubbly Doug was pointing out that I think it

0:28:29.920 --> 0:28:33.480
<v Speaker 4>was Dougie pointing out that Sucker must have had forty

0:28:33.560 --> 0:28:36.560
<v Speaker 4>fifty pairs of kangaroo leather soccer shoes because of the

0:28:36.600 --> 0:28:39.200
<v Speaker 4>real common leather for soccer shoes. But I'm gonna tell

0:28:39.200 --> 0:28:43.560
<v Speaker 4>you something else. Gonna curl your hair, guy says. He

0:28:43.600 --> 0:28:46.680
<v Speaker 4>writes in and says, I've been listening to the recent

0:28:46.920 --> 0:28:52.240
<v Speaker 4>podcasts covering discussion about companies moving away from kangaroo leather.

0:28:53.560 --> 0:28:56.360
<v Speaker 4>I was a firefighter for the City of Houston, the

0:28:56.400 --> 0:28:58.560
<v Speaker 4>third largest department in the US.

0:28:59.840 --> 0:29:02.240
<v Speaker 2>All of our bunker gloves.

0:29:01.880 --> 0:29:06.880
<v Speaker 4>Were kangaroo leather. The gloves were amazing, had great dexterity.

0:29:07.840 --> 0:29:12.520
<v Speaker 4>Houston Fire Department normally has over four thousand firefighters on

0:29:12.560 --> 0:29:16.920
<v Speaker 4>their payroll. Everyone had a set of these gloves. No

0:29:17.040 --> 0:29:21.560
<v Speaker 4>telling how many were on Standbio's replacements. If any kind

0:29:21.600 --> 0:29:23.480
<v Speaker 4>of damage was done to the gloves, we would have

0:29:23.760 --> 0:29:26.200
<v Speaker 4>to get them replaced, so you could go through many

0:29:26.240 --> 0:29:29.520
<v Speaker 4>pairs throughout the year. My guess is that Houston Fire

0:29:29.560 --> 0:29:33.840
<v Speaker 4>Department uses kangaroo still using them, and goes on to

0:29:33.840 --> 0:29:38.040
<v Speaker 4>say if people in Australia are sweating their market, hopefully

0:29:38.040 --> 0:29:39.520
<v Speaker 4>the fire departments will keep them alive.

0:29:40.080 --> 0:29:43.440
<v Speaker 5>There we go have you been to Australia. Nope, never,

0:29:43.960 --> 0:29:46.840
<v Speaker 5>because I did my gap year set of after university

0:29:46.880 --> 0:29:50.600
<v Speaker 5>before I became a professional hunter, and Kangary's and Wallaby's

0:29:50.680 --> 0:29:53.960
<v Speaker 5>are like rabbits. They are everywhere. I mean, I ended

0:29:54.080 --> 0:29:57.120
<v Speaker 5>up taking out five with my ute as I came

0:29:57.120 --> 0:29:59.800
<v Speaker 5>around the corner and the farmer next door was doing

0:29:59.800 --> 0:30:03.320
<v Speaker 5>a hell and about five hundred round across the road

0:30:03.360 --> 0:30:04.840
<v Speaker 5>in front of me, and before I could slam on

0:30:04.880 --> 0:30:06.800
<v Speaker 5>the brakes, I'd already hit five of them.

0:30:07.240 --> 0:30:09.320
<v Speaker 2>I mean, they have to look like five hundred king.

0:30:09.520 --> 0:30:11.080
<v Speaker 5>It was insane. There was like this hedge and they

0:30:11.120 --> 0:30:13.160
<v Speaker 5>all came diving over the hedge and me and my

0:30:13.240 --> 0:30:17.320
<v Speaker 5>friend literally didn't have any time to react and in

0:30:17.400 --> 0:30:19.680
<v Speaker 5>the worst I had to keep reversing over to finish

0:30:19.760 --> 0:30:20.200
<v Speaker 5>the job.

0:30:22.920 --> 0:30:23.720
<v Speaker 2>Iron or something.

0:30:23.960 --> 0:30:26.200
<v Speaker 5>No, you know, it was a farm truck and it

0:30:26.320 --> 0:30:29.760
<v Speaker 5>just didn't have anything in it. It's not like an

0:30:29.800 --> 0:30:33.160
<v Speaker 5>American truck. It's like a pretty small truck in comparison.

0:30:36.440 --> 0:30:38.280
<v Speaker 4>Well, No, that we talked about, I don't want to

0:30:38.280 --> 0:30:43.120
<v Speaker 4>retalk about it. But the fact that they're calling kangaroos

0:30:43.160 --> 0:30:46.440
<v Speaker 4>no matter what. Yeah, whether someone's whether someone's using it

0:30:46.560 --> 0:30:50.440
<v Speaker 4>or not. Yeah, yeah, either do they either go and

0:30:50.440 --> 0:30:53.480
<v Speaker 4>do a ditch or they get used as usable product. Yeah,

0:30:53.520 --> 0:30:56.160
<v Speaker 4>like you you not buying the leather isn't.

0:30:56.360 --> 0:30:58.640
<v Speaker 5>Doing any impact.

0:30:58.800 --> 0:31:01.959
<v Speaker 6>And everybody I talked, he says the pro team, the

0:31:02.000 --> 0:31:05.080
<v Speaker 6>meat is inexpensive and quite tasty.

0:31:05.160 --> 0:31:08.120
<v Speaker 2>It's good, it's good. It's a hard sell for people

0:31:08.120 --> 0:31:11.080
<v Speaker 2>in Australia. It's like very seldom eat in there. They

0:31:11.120 --> 0:31:14.160
<v Speaker 2>mostly export it. Either it goes into pet meat or

0:31:14.200 --> 0:31:18.800
<v Speaker 2>it's exported, like you'll occasionally see it in some like

0:31:18.880 --> 0:31:21.120
<v Speaker 2>some sort of high end restaurant or something. But people

0:31:21.160 --> 0:31:24.840
<v Speaker 2>in general, yeah, people in general there have a real

0:31:24.920 --> 0:31:26.000
<v Speaker 2>issue with eating.

0:31:26.120 --> 0:31:29.400
<v Speaker 4>Like do they think of it like eating a dog

0:31:29.560 --> 0:31:32.000
<v Speaker 4>in America or eating a rat in America?

0:31:32.120 --> 0:31:35.000
<v Speaker 5>It's hard to better better than I get it in

0:31:35.080 --> 0:31:35.640
<v Speaker 5>a restaurant.

0:31:35.720 --> 0:31:38.720
<v Speaker 2>I think it's not quite a rat level of revulsion

0:31:38.880 --> 0:31:41.240
<v Speaker 2>or dog level of revulsion. But it's like, well, no,

0:31:41.280 --> 0:31:42.440
<v Speaker 2>I would just say it's a dog.

0:31:43.080 --> 0:31:46.000
<v Speaker 4>I would, Okay, from a US sensibility, these are two

0:31:46.160 --> 0:31:47.920
<v Speaker 4>very different reasons not to eat something.

0:31:48.560 --> 0:31:52.000
<v Speaker 2>To eat a dog children, right, and a rat is

0:31:52.040 --> 0:31:56.720
<v Speaker 2>because it's discussing. I think it's neither. I think it's

0:31:56.840 --> 0:31:59.400
<v Speaker 2>because people just don't think it's going to be good,

0:32:00.080 --> 0:32:03.200
<v Speaker 2>and they're kind of like, you know, they hop around whatever.

0:32:03.360 --> 0:32:06.120
<v Speaker 2>I'm not entirely sure because I never had this issue

0:32:06.120 --> 0:32:07.760
<v Speaker 2>with it, and I don't think I've ever really tried

0:32:07.800 --> 0:32:10.160
<v Speaker 2>to unpack it with someone. But I know that, like,

0:32:10.240 --> 0:32:14.959
<v Speaker 2>it's hugely unpopular and not commercially successful the meat at

0:32:15.000 --> 0:32:20.680
<v Speaker 2>all in Australia itself, Russia. For a while it was

0:32:20.880 --> 0:32:24.240
<v Speaker 2>relatively popular in Russia. I guess it's relatively popular in Europe.

0:32:25.000 --> 0:32:26.880
<v Speaker 2>But people have this big issue with it. And of

0:32:26.880 --> 0:32:29.440
<v Speaker 2>course they're one of these species that's just benefited so

0:32:29.640 --> 0:32:33.480
<v Speaker 2>much from agriculture and land clearing, so their numbers are

0:32:33.520 --> 0:32:35.920
<v Speaker 2>just way above what they would have been. You know,

0:32:36.520 --> 0:32:38.800
<v Speaker 2>back in the day, like pre settlement.

0:32:38.800 --> 0:32:41.440
<v Speaker 4>We covered a guy, remember that, Remember that heart lunch guy.

0:32:43.240 --> 0:32:44.800
<v Speaker 4>There was a guy that had a heart launch program

0:32:44.880 --> 0:32:45.640
<v Speaker 4>and he got fired.

0:32:46.320 --> 0:32:54.200
<v Speaker 7>I remember that, Yes, yes, his job back in the end,

0:32:54.360 --> 0:32:55.080
<v Speaker 7>I don't remember.

0:32:55.200 --> 0:32:56.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, they let him go.

0:32:56.160 --> 0:32:58.480
<v Speaker 4>They found out you've been buying a kangaroo berger for

0:32:58.520 --> 0:33:00.400
<v Speaker 4>the heart launch program.

0:33:00.400 --> 0:33:02.160
<v Speaker 2>But I think you might have got his job back, man,

0:33:02.280 --> 0:33:04.800
<v Speaker 2>I figured that. Or was he buying it and selling

0:33:04.840 --> 0:33:07.160
<v Speaker 2>it as beef or was he just sort of not

0:33:07.360 --> 0:33:13.280
<v Speaker 2>coming hamburger, Yeah, burger, like whatever, it's burger, burgers, burger.

0:33:13.360 --> 0:33:15.080
<v Speaker 2>I mean, they're good to eat, there's no doubt about it.

0:33:15.120 --> 0:33:17.560
<v Speaker 10>Is there a stigma around it, like like that's a

0:33:17.600 --> 0:33:18.840
<v Speaker 10>guy who eats kangaroo meat?

0:33:20.280 --> 0:33:24.960
<v Speaker 2>No, I wouldn't say it's that that extreme. I think

0:33:25.000 --> 0:33:27.560
<v Speaker 2>people just sort of like you walk into the butcher's shop,

0:33:27.600 --> 0:33:30.200
<v Speaker 2>the meat counters. There there's beef, there's lamb, there's pork,

0:33:30.240 --> 0:33:32.720
<v Speaker 2>there's kangaroo. I want to be like, I'm not getting kikta.

0:33:32.920 --> 0:33:35.200
<v Speaker 7>If it's at restaurants though, is it at like high

0:33:35.360 --> 0:33:36.920
<v Speaker 7>end restaurants, it will be.

0:33:36.840 --> 0:33:40.120
<v Speaker 2>See that's also kind of tourist contraction. Oh, I see,

0:33:40.440 --> 0:33:43.360
<v Speaker 2>And I think people are more there's more of a

0:33:43.400 --> 0:33:47.360
<v Speaker 2>push towards it from a like sustainability standpoint, in the

0:33:47.440 --> 0:33:49.640
<v Speaker 2>sense that you know, these things, as you said at

0:33:49.640 --> 0:33:51.920
<v Speaker 2>the point you made, they're getting culled whether you like

0:33:52.000 --> 0:33:54.480
<v Speaker 2>it or not. We may as well try and incorporate,

0:33:54.720 --> 0:33:57.320
<v Speaker 2>incorporate some of this protein into our you know, into

0:33:57.320 --> 0:34:00.360
<v Speaker 2>our diet because it's good stuff. But I know there

0:34:00.400 --> 0:34:02.840
<v Speaker 2>was like a burger chain I want to say that

0:34:03.040 --> 0:34:05.320
<v Speaker 2>was like we're switching to kangaroo burgers and I think

0:34:05.320 --> 0:34:07.480
<v Speaker 2>it just killed their business. I think it just couldn't

0:34:07.480 --> 0:34:09.560
<v Speaker 2>get people, just couldn't get behind.

0:34:09.560 --> 0:34:10.800
<v Speaker 7>Crews just need a rebrand.

0:34:11.560 --> 0:34:15.200
<v Speaker 2>They need a rebrand. I agree. I think it's gonna

0:34:15.239 --> 0:34:20.120
<v Speaker 2>be a tough road to hug. Yeah, gets a business

0:34:20.160 --> 0:34:20.480
<v Speaker 2>with them.

0:34:20.520 --> 0:34:22.080
<v Speaker 7>Steve, Australian.

0:34:23.200 --> 0:34:25.239
<v Speaker 4>I only had kangaroo a couple of times. Someone sent

0:34:25.280 --> 0:34:26.640
<v Speaker 4>me a bunch of kangaroo chops.

0:34:26.680 --> 0:34:28.680
<v Speaker 2>One time we ate them up. Oh interesting. I wonder

0:34:28.719 --> 0:34:32.719
<v Speaker 2>if they're from like a farm in Texas or something Australia.

0:34:32.840 --> 0:34:35.360
<v Speaker 4>Really, I can't remember how I got them. It was

0:34:35.400 --> 0:34:38.160
<v Speaker 4>a long time ago I got those. And then and

0:34:38.200 --> 0:34:42.919
<v Speaker 4>then the same person sent me some yak meat yack meat.

0:34:43.120 --> 0:34:43.480
<v Speaker 5>Wow.

0:34:43.760 --> 0:34:46.240
<v Speaker 6>I think you do a side by side profile picture

0:34:46.480 --> 0:34:49.279
<v Speaker 6>of would you eat me? And one side just the

0:34:49.360 --> 0:34:51.239
<v Speaker 6>kangaroo and the other side of the kangaroo with like

0:34:51.280 --> 0:34:54.239
<v Speaker 6>a big set of rabbit ears on it. Oh yeah,

0:34:54.320 --> 0:34:55.520
<v Speaker 6>everybody likes eating rabbit.

0:34:56.040 --> 0:34:58.759
<v Speaker 5>Also, I have to say, like a wallaby looks a

0:34:58.840 --> 0:35:01.680
<v Speaker 5>lot more appetizing than a big red kangary.

0:35:01.920 --> 0:35:02.200
<v Speaker 2>Really.

0:35:02.680 --> 0:35:04.520
<v Speaker 5>Yeah. They just look a bit juic here and.

0:35:04.560 --> 0:35:08.040
<v Speaker 2>Just smaller and little. They got a juicy look to it,

0:35:08.760 --> 0:35:12.120
<v Speaker 2>not as sort of wiry and spring loaded as.

0:35:12.000 --> 0:35:14.760
<v Speaker 5>The male red kangary is a pretty pretty mean looking

0:35:14.920 --> 0:35:15.840
<v Speaker 5>They are mean looking.

0:35:15.880 --> 0:35:16.840
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, they're very stern.

0:35:17.640 --> 0:35:20.319
<v Speaker 8>I didn't find anything about the cook getting his job

0:35:20.400 --> 0:35:22.719
<v Speaker 8>back because it got so bad that the superintendent of

0:35:22.719 --> 0:35:24.240
<v Speaker 8>the school district even resigned.

0:35:25.400 --> 0:35:28.319
<v Speaker 2>What Yeah, as I said, people are funny about it,

0:35:28.440 --> 0:35:29.160
<v Speaker 2>like they are.

0:35:29.440 --> 0:35:33.200
<v Speaker 4>These people wouldn't know kangaroo if it kicked them here,

0:35:33.520 --> 0:35:36.960
<v Speaker 4>you know what they look like. One last thing, so

0:35:37.760 --> 0:35:42.839
<v Speaker 4>we uh man, maybe a year ago, maybe a year ago,

0:35:42.880 --> 0:35:44.760
<v Speaker 4>we had a bunch of a bunch of our colleagues

0:35:44.760 --> 0:35:47.000
<v Speaker 4>from the first from First Light on and they had

0:35:47.000 --> 0:35:52.400
<v Speaker 4>been on this show, and we would announced that our waiters,

0:35:52.440 --> 0:35:56.480
<v Speaker 4>First Light Waiters would be coming out this summer. So

0:35:56.800 --> 0:36:00.239
<v Speaker 4>there was a long, you know, two year test process.

0:36:00.280 --> 0:36:01.239
<v Speaker 2>We've had people.

0:36:01.040 --> 0:36:03.960
<v Speaker 4>Running around hunting ducks and I've been trapping beavers in

0:36:04.000 --> 0:36:09.320
<v Speaker 4>the waiters. I don't know, ten to fourteen states or something.

0:36:09.480 --> 0:36:12.480
<v Speaker 4>We've been testing the waiters and just the heads up

0:36:12.600 --> 0:36:17.439
<v Speaker 4>that they they gotta be perfect. We're we're not ready yet.

0:36:19.480 --> 0:36:23.680
<v Speaker 4>Two years, ten states, they're not ready yet. So I

0:36:23.719 --> 0:36:27.000
<v Speaker 4>know a lot of people keep reaching out about getting

0:36:27.000 --> 0:36:30.960
<v Speaker 4>the new first Light forage waiters. I have a pair

0:36:31.040 --> 0:36:34.480
<v Speaker 4>they're phenomenal, they're worth the weight, but in terms of

0:36:34.520 --> 0:36:38.680
<v Speaker 4>getting like the numbers out there for launch, we're not

0:36:38.760 --> 0:36:42.400
<v Speaker 4>there yet. So stay tuned on waiters.

0:36:42.080 --> 0:36:44.000
<v Speaker 6>Which I think is exactly what you want to hear

0:36:44.040 --> 0:36:44.720
<v Speaker 6>from a company.

0:36:45.800 --> 0:36:47.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, because we could be saying they're not ready, but

0:36:47.640 --> 0:36:51.400
<v Speaker 2>order now and by the way, ready yeah.

0:36:51.680 --> 0:36:55.560
<v Speaker 6>Yeah. Anybody who's had a rough go with an expensive

0:36:55.560 --> 0:36:58.600
<v Speaker 6>pair of waiters is just you can't even look at

0:36:58.640 --> 0:37:05.239
<v Speaker 6>them the same way. So yeah, we're aiming for the

0:37:05.560 --> 0:37:07.400
<v Speaker 6>top of the heap here, the best of the best,

0:37:07.480 --> 0:37:11.320
<v Speaker 6>and and we're putting the screws to them. So stay tuned,

0:37:11.640 --> 0:37:12.240
<v Speaker 6>it'll happen.

0:37:12.719 --> 0:37:25.560
<v Speaker 4>Stay tuned, all right, Uh, tell about the story about

0:37:25.560 --> 0:37:27.520
<v Speaker 4>getting beat up by by Kate Buffalo.

0:37:29.320 --> 0:37:32.319
<v Speaker 5>Well, it can be a long story or a short

0:37:32.320 --> 0:37:37.680
<v Speaker 5>story the media. The long version. We were in our

0:37:37.960 --> 0:37:42.080
<v Speaker 5>Leganza Game Reserve concession, which just to put things in perspective,

0:37:42.160 --> 0:37:45.480
<v Speaker 5>it's over a million and a half acres of pure

0:37:45.520 --> 0:37:50.279
<v Speaker 5>wilderness no other people bar our little camp and.

0:37:50.160 --> 0:37:52.120
<v Speaker 2>How many acres over a.

0:37:52.080 --> 0:37:53.400
<v Speaker 5>Million and a half acres.

0:37:53.600 --> 0:37:57.000
<v Speaker 4>It's looks like, yeah, that's like like what yellstones two million?

0:37:58.239 --> 0:38:00.360
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, it's about the size of the road Island.

0:38:00.440 --> 0:38:04.680
<v Speaker 2>Basically, Rhode Island's great state to have in the country.

0:38:06.160 --> 0:38:09.880
<v Speaker 2>It's always good for making things comparisons. Yeah, you know

0:38:09.920 --> 0:38:12.200
<v Speaker 2>what I mean. It's a great little tool, Yeah, to

0:38:12.280 --> 0:38:13.040
<v Speaker 2>have Rhode Island.

0:38:13.360 --> 0:38:17.560
<v Speaker 5>So anyway, it's a two hour flight in from Arusha,

0:38:17.600 --> 0:38:21.080
<v Speaker 5>which we're our bases, and it was a big family

0:38:21.120 --> 0:38:24.120
<v Speaker 5>safari so my brother and another professional hunter were on

0:38:24.160 --> 0:38:24.919
<v Speaker 5>the trip as well.

0:38:25.280 --> 0:38:27.319
<v Speaker 4>Now I'm going to drive you crazy because I need

0:38:27.360 --> 0:38:29.560
<v Speaker 4>to have certain things clarified as we go along. Yeah,

0:38:29.560 --> 0:38:32.360
<v Speaker 4>that's fine, do you mind right now?

0:38:33.040 --> 0:38:34.800
<v Speaker 2>Telling? Like, what is a concession?

0:38:35.680 --> 0:38:39.840
<v Speaker 5>So how it works in Tanzaniera is you lease the

0:38:39.960 --> 0:38:43.440
<v Speaker 5>areas from the government. Gives you the right the tourism

0:38:43.480 --> 0:38:47.239
<v Speaker 5>and hunting rights for that area of land. There's no

0:38:47.280 --> 0:38:50.760
<v Speaker 5>private ownership in Tanzania and Southern Africa is very different

0:38:50.760 --> 0:38:53.840
<v Speaker 5>and the landowner owns the wildlife and everything. We just

0:38:54.000 --> 0:38:55.799
<v Speaker 5>leased the right to take people there.

0:38:56.960 --> 0:38:58.360
<v Speaker 2>So it's undeveloped.

0:38:59.000 --> 0:39:02.640
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, it's set aside for wildlife and you know, the

0:39:02.719 --> 0:39:07.319
<v Speaker 5>habitats protected, but there's huge pressures on it. So it

0:39:07.400 --> 0:39:11.000
<v Speaker 5>involves a huge amount of anti poaching and community sort

0:39:11.040 --> 0:39:15.800
<v Speaker 5>of liaison work to get them on site.

0:39:15.200 --> 0:39:19.640
<v Speaker 4>This one million acre chunk. How many residents are in

0:39:19.680 --> 0:39:21.040
<v Speaker 4>that one million acres.

0:39:21.440 --> 0:39:25.319
<v Speaker 5>No one just hunting camp. But all around the edge

0:39:25.360 --> 0:39:28.440
<v Speaker 5>there are villages where they're farming and they have their land.

0:39:28.600 --> 0:39:32.880
<v Speaker 4>And those those villagers around the edge, they utilize that.

0:39:33.520 --> 0:39:38.040
<v Speaker 5>They're technically not allowed. They're not allowed to do anything.

0:39:38.040 --> 0:39:42.359
<v Speaker 5>They shouldn't be cutting trees, farming, grazing their cattle. It's

0:39:42.400 --> 0:39:44.560
<v Speaker 5>it's just set aside. It's a gamers.

0:39:45.000 --> 0:39:46.319
<v Speaker 2>Assuming that that does go on.

0:39:46.600 --> 0:39:49.200
<v Speaker 5>So this is the problem in Africa that you know,

0:39:50.000 --> 0:39:53.320
<v Speaker 5>people are desperate to survive and the population is growing

0:39:53.560 --> 0:39:58.120
<v Speaker 5>so rapidly there's not enough space for everyone. So you know,

0:39:58.160 --> 0:40:00.319
<v Speaker 5>they see this huge piece of land and if they're

0:40:00.320 --> 0:40:03.920
<v Speaker 5>not benefiting from it in some way, then of course,

0:40:04.239 --> 0:40:06.760
<v Speaker 5>you know, if they can catch an animal and feed

0:40:06.760 --> 0:40:11.080
<v Speaker 5>their family, then they're going to try. And so a

0:40:11.080 --> 0:40:12.719
<v Speaker 5>big part of our job is trying to make the

0:40:12.760 --> 0:40:18.000
<v Speaker 5>communities benefit from us being there. And yeah, my dad

0:40:18.120 --> 0:40:21.800
<v Speaker 5>was a sort of instigator in the community benefit scheme

0:40:21.840 --> 0:40:24.520
<v Speaker 5>where you know, the local villages would benefit from the

0:40:24.520 --> 0:40:29.000
<v Speaker 5>game that we hunt. And so we've over the last

0:40:29.160 --> 0:40:32.320
<v Speaker 5>fifteen years, I think we've spent over three million dollars

0:40:32.360 --> 0:40:38.680
<v Speaker 5>on developing schools, boreholes, health dispensaries, you name it. Whatever

0:40:38.719 --> 0:40:42.640
<v Speaker 5>the communities needed. And that was all generated through through

0:40:42.640 --> 0:40:44.320
<v Speaker 5>our community benefits of hunting.

0:40:44.640 --> 0:40:49.000
<v Speaker 2>Oh okay, so that's concession. Yeah, in their concession.

0:40:49.120 --> 0:40:52.480
<v Speaker 5>So we're in the in the Laganza Game Reserve, and

0:40:53.920 --> 0:40:57.080
<v Speaker 5>because it's a big family group, some people are arriving

0:40:57.200 --> 0:41:00.560
<v Speaker 5>earlier or later. And I'd been hunting with the mother

0:41:01.239 --> 0:41:03.920
<v Speaker 5>and the daughter was just arriving halfway through the trip.

0:41:04.480 --> 0:41:09.279
<v Speaker 5>And she's twenty three, her first African hunting experience, and

0:41:09.320 --> 0:41:11.120
<v Speaker 5>the mother's like, well, why don't you just go out

0:41:11.160 --> 0:41:14.839
<v Speaker 5>with her on one on one today and let her

0:41:14.960 --> 0:41:17.440
<v Speaker 5>just you know, enjoy the experience and I'll have a

0:41:17.480 --> 0:41:21.040
<v Speaker 5>rest day and camp. And so she arrives and we

0:41:21.440 --> 0:41:23.920
<v Speaker 5>set off early in the morning, and you know, I

0:41:23.920 --> 0:41:26.520
<v Speaker 5>want to get her a feel of hunting in Africa.

0:41:27.719 --> 0:41:31.200
<v Speaker 5>So we're not going for anything dangerous. We're going to

0:41:31.280 --> 0:41:32.920
<v Speaker 5>go out and look for one of the more common

0:41:32.960 --> 0:41:35.720
<v Speaker 5>planes game animals, like a water buck or a topi.

0:41:36.719 --> 0:41:41.239
<v Speaker 5>And as it happens, we run across some fresh tracks

0:41:41.320 --> 0:41:46.279
<v Speaker 5>for buffalo and it's just you know, you can't miss

0:41:46.320 --> 0:41:49.279
<v Speaker 5>the opportunity, you know, when something's fresh and good. I

0:41:49.320 --> 0:41:51.040
<v Speaker 5>was like, well, let's give it a little look and

0:41:51.600 --> 0:41:55.560
<v Speaker 5>we'll see how it all goes. And as it happened,

0:41:55.880 --> 0:41:59.120
<v Speaker 5>these buffalo took us right up into the mountains, you know,

0:41:59.239 --> 0:42:01.920
<v Speaker 5>over a platte so down the other side, and we

0:42:01.960 --> 0:42:05.080
<v Speaker 5>spent like five or six hours tracking them, by which

0:42:05.120 --> 0:42:09.000
<v Speaker 5>point she's now beginning to suffer from heat stroke, and

0:42:09.840 --> 0:42:12.120
<v Speaker 5>like we hadn't taken any lunch with us. Luckily, we

0:42:12.840 --> 0:42:15.920
<v Speaker 5>had a couple of bottles of water and I had

0:42:15.960 --> 0:42:19.600
<v Speaker 5>some Eminem's which I gave her some chocolates, which was

0:42:19.719 --> 0:42:21.799
<v Speaker 5>enough to basically walk back to the nearest point we

0:42:21.800 --> 0:42:26.560
<v Speaker 5>could get the car. So basically, after six hours, we've

0:42:26.600 --> 0:42:26.960
<v Speaker 5>had no.

0:42:27.000 --> 0:42:30.359
<v Speaker 4>Luck following a single track following it was a group

0:42:30.400 --> 0:42:31.200
<v Speaker 4>of four or five bucks.

0:42:31.440 --> 0:42:36.120
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, And anyway, the wind just kept swirling and working

0:42:36.120 --> 0:42:38.760
<v Speaker 5>in their favor and it wasn't going to happen, so

0:42:38.840 --> 0:42:41.560
<v Speaker 5>we don't want to push it anyway. So we head

0:42:41.560 --> 0:42:44.040
<v Speaker 5>back to the car and we have our picnic lunch

0:42:44.120 --> 0:42:46.319
<v Speaker 5>and a bit of a break and I'm like, well,

0:42:46.320 --> 0:42:48.040
<v Speaker 5>why don't we just go along the edge of the

0:42:48.080 --> 0:42:50.640
<v Speaker 5>lake shore this evening, and you know, if we happened

0:42:50.640 --> 0:42:54.479
<v Speaker 5>to see a water bark or something. Then then we'll try,

0:42:54.640 --> 0:42:57.080
<v Speaker 5>you know, tryal luck, but otherwise we'll just amble back

0:42:57.080 --> 0:43:00.120
<v Speaker 5>to camp because she basically, you know, had enough for

0:43:00.480 --> 0:43:04.160
<v Speaker 5>them from the day. And we're driving along the lake

0:43:04.200 --> 0:43:08.760
<v Speaker 5>shore at about five thirty in the evening and suddenly

0:43:08.800 --> 0:43:12.640
<v Speaker 5>this beautiful old water buck runs across the road in

0:43:12.680 --> 0:43:15.839
<v Speaker 5>front of us, and I can see straight away as

0:43:15.880 --> 0:43:19.960
<v Speaker 5>you know, perfect old bull, and I'm like, okay, we

0:43:20.320 --> 0:43:23.560
<v Speaker 5>need going give this guy a go. So she jumps out,

0:43:23.640 --> 0:43:27.760
<v Speaker 5>gets her gun. I grab my shooting sticks because in Africa,

0:43:27.960 --> 0:43:29.920
<v Speaker 5>you know, the grass is often long, so you use

0:43:29.960 --> 0:43:32.520
<v Speaker 5>shooting sticks. It's like a tripod, so you shoot from

0:43:32.520 --> 0:43:37.759
<v Speaker 5>a standing position, not lying down. And my track is

0:43:37.880 --> 0:43:40.400
<v Speaker 5>grabbing my big five hundred, which is a sort of

0:43:40.440 --> 0:43:44.920
<v Speaker 5>the backup weapon, and the zip keeps jamming on the

0:43:44.920 --> 0:43:49.080
<v Speaker 5>gun sleeve, and so I turned to don't worry. Don't worry,

0:43:49.120 --> 0:43:54.160
<v Speaker 5>We're not going far, and we set off and we

0:43:54.280 --> 0:43:55.960
<v Speaker 5>come around the edge. The way it works is sort

0:43:55.960 --> 0:43:58.640
<v Speaker 5>of floodplains, So you've got these ant hills where all

0:43:58.680 --> 0:44:03.719
<v Speaker 5>the foliage basically it's concentrated, so the trees. Because during

0:44:03.760 --> 0:44:08.000
<v Speaker 5>the wet season, the whole area of floods. The grass plains,

0:44:08.000 --> 0:44:10.000
<v Speaker 5>but it survives. These things are big, you know, yeah,

0:44:10.040 --> 0:44:13.960
<v Speaker 5>talking thirty feet across. Yeah, So you've got these really

0:44:14.080 --> 0:44:17.120
<v Speaker 5>huge open planes and then these these massive ant hills

0:44:17.120 --> 0:44:21.200
<v Speaker 5>that have trees and palm bushes and lots of foliage

0:44:21.239 --> 0:44:24.560
<v Speaker 5>on them, and it's you sort of work with them.

0:44:24.600 --> 0:44:27.040
<v Speaker 5>You know, they're perfect for stalking things. You come around

0:44:27.080 --> 0:44:29.520
<v Speaker 5>the edge of the cover and so we go round

0:44:29.520 --> 0:44:31.839
<v Speaker 5>a couple and there's the water buck and I put

0:44:31.880 --> 0:44:35.480
<v Speaker 5>the sticks up, but the water buck stops with a

0:44:35.480 --> 0:44:38.120
<v Speaker 5>palm leaf right in front of its vitals, and she's

0:44:38.200 --> 0:44:39.160
<v Speaker 5>uncomfortable with the shot.

0:44:40.320 --> 0:44:40.720
<v Speaker 2>Pictures.

0:44:40.840 --> 0:44:47.200
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, and so the water back carries on and it

0:44:47.239 --> 0:44:49.839
<v Speaker 5>goes around a few more of these ant hills, and

0:44:49.880 --> 0:44:51.480
<v Speaker 5>we're stalking along the other side.

0:44:51.640 --> 0:44:56.160
<v Speaker 4>So you just use these ant hills as yeah, and

0:44:56.320 --> 0:45:00.160
<v Speaker 4>like using round round hay bales exactly just like that.

0:45:01.080 --> 0:45:05.279
<v Speaker 5>And next minute, as we're coming around, we've literally only

0:45:05.360 --> 0:45:10.920
<v Speaker 5>gone probably five hundred meters from the car, and I

0:45:10.960 --> 0:45:14.719
<v Speaker 5>come around this one bush and this buffalo burst out

0:45:14.719 --> 0:45:17.200
<v Speaker 5>of the front of the bush towards us. And normally,

0:45:17.200 --> 0:45:20.359
<v Speaker 5>like when you're hunting them, ninety nine percent of the time,

0:45:20.480 --> 0:45:22.960
<v Speaker 5>if they sense you, they burst out of the back

0:45:23.000 --> 0:45:25.239
<v Speaker 5>of the bush and you don't even see them, you

0:45:25.320 --> 0:45:31.319
<v Speaker 5>just hear the eruption, and this one time. Typically it

0:45:31.400 --> 0:45:35.880
<v Speaker 5>decides it's coming out the front, and it looks at me,

0:45:36.080 --> 0:45:39.840
<v Speaker 5>It looks at the young girl that I'm with, and

0:45:40.680 --> 0:45:44.360
<v Speaker 5>it decides it's homing in on her. Meanwhile, the trackers

0:45:44.600 --> 0:45:45.600
<v Speaker 5>have just vaporized.

0:45:45.600 --> 0:45:46.719
<v Speaker 2>They disappear and.

0:45:46.880 --> 0:45:50.799
<v Speaker 5>Smart insecond, and normally that actually helps you in the

0:45:50.800 --> 0:45:55.080
<v Speaker 5>case that they'll it'll draw the animal's attention, but in

0:45:55.120 --> 0:45:58.279
<v Speaker 5>this case, it didn't. It it just fixated on my

0:45:58.360 --> 0:46:02.919
<v Speaker 5>client and everything sort of slowed down, and I could tell,

0:46:03.360 --> 0:46:06.920
<v Speaker 5>you know, she was going to get annihilated because she

0:46:07.040 --> 0:46:11.040
<v Speaker 5>was just standing up right in the open. And she'd

0:46:11.120 --> 0:46:13.640
<v Speaker 5>later told me she didn't actually know it was a buffalo.

0:46:13.760 --> 0:46:15.880
<v Speaker 5>She thought it was the water buck that we were hunting,

0:46:16.360 --> 0:46:20.560
<v Speaker 5>so she was just confused in the moment, and I

0:46:20.600 --> 0:46:23.319
<v Speaker 5>sort of evaluated everything I saw. It was really old

0:46:23.400 --> 0:46:25.760
<v Speaker 5>and it didn't have both of it It had broken

0:46:25.760 --> 0:46:27.480
<v Speaker 5>both its horns off, it was so old, so it

0:46:27.560 --> 0:46:30.400
<v Speaker 5>just had this big mound of a boss in the middle,

0:46:30.960 --> 0:46:32.720
<v Speaker 5>but no nasty.

0:46:32.400 --> 0:46:34.040
<v Speaker 6>Hooks, just a battering ram.

0:46:34.360 --> 0:46:37.600
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, So in my head in that split second, I

0:46:37.680 --> 0:46:39.800
<v Speaker 5>kind of thought, well, I can throw my shooting sticks

0:46:39.800 --> 0:46:43.879
<v Speaker 5>at it and attention. I didn't even slow it down.

0:46:43.920 --> 0:46:46.480
<v Speaker 5>I just thought it would draw it towards me. And

0:46:46.480 --> 0:46:49.680
<v Speaker 5>then I thought I could be like a bullfighter and

0:46:49.840 --> 0:46:52.120
<v Speaker 5>dive out of the way. And at the last second,

0:46:52.920 --> 0:46:57.839
<v Speaker 5>and I got that bit a bit wrong. I threw

0:46:57.880 --> 0:47:00.440
<v Speaker 5>my sticks and hid it straight in the face.

0:47:01.120 --> 0:47:02.840
<v Speaker 4>How close was it when you when you huck your

0:47:02.840 --> 0:47:03.480
<v Speaker 4>sticks at it?

0:47:03.960 --> 0:47:06.440
<v Speaker 5>So it burst out of the bush literally about fifteen

0:47:06.520 --> 0:47:09.560
<v Speaker 5>yards in front of us, And it was about eight

0:47:09.640 --> 0:47:13.120
<v Speaker 5>yards when I checked myself in the weigh a buffalo

0:47:13.120 --> 0:47:16.640
<v Speaker 5>about fifteen hundred pounds, you know, maybe seventeen hundred for.

0:47:16.840 --> 0:47:18.880
<v Speaker 2>A big old How high are they at the shoulder?

0:47:20.160 --> 0:47:24.759
<v Speaker 5>The shoulder probably five five and a half.

0:47:25.360 --> 0:47:28.480
<v Speaker 4>Considerably bigger than I mean, well, like a big Yukon

0:47:28.600 --> 0:47:30.080
<v Speaker 4>moves bigger.

0:47:30.920 --> 0:47:33.879
<v Speaker 5>Body is bigger, but I mean.

0:47:34.520 --> 0:47:37.920
<v Speaker 4>Pound yeah, carry, yeah, for sure.

0:47:38.080 --> 0:47:43.160
<v Speaker 5>It's it's more of a bull terrier shape than dobaman,

0:47:43.200 --> 0:47:46.200
<v Speaker 5>if you know what I mean. It's solid, yeah.

0:47:46.040 --> 0:47:47.759
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, and the mask goes all the way to.

0:47:47.719 --> 0:47:49.720
<v Speaker 5>The hips, yeah, all the way to the ankles.

0:47:50.040 --> 0:47:50.120
<v Speaker 7>Ye.

0:47:53.400 --> 0:47:57.759
<v Speaker 5>So yeah, it comes at me and I literally just

0:47:57.840 --> 0:48:01.840
<v Speaker 5>bend my knees to start the dark I've and I realized,

0:48:02.440 --> 0:48:04.040
<v Speaker 5>there's no way I'm even going to project.

0:48:04.160 --> 0:48:04.880
<v Speaker 2>You couldn't get on.

0:48:05.040 --> 0:48:06.239
<v Speaker 4>You couldn't even get a jump going.

0:48:06.400 --> 0:48:09.320
<v Speaker 5>No, I didn't even start jumping. And I used to

0:48:09.320 --> 0:48:12.960
<v Speaker 5>play a lot of rugby, so my instinct was I

0:48:13.040 --> 0:48:14.680
<v Speaker 5>kind of knew it was going to get me in

0:48:14.719 --> 0:48:15.879
<v Speaker 5>the ribs, so I.

0:48:15.840 --> 0:48:17.920
<v Speaker 4>Dipped my When you hooked your sticks at it was

0:48:17.960 --> 0:48:19.439
<v Speaker 4>it was it still standing.

0:48:19.160 --> 0:48:21.879
<v Speaker 2>Or was it already it was running? It was almost Yeah,

0:48:21.960 --> 0:48:22.560
<v Speaker 2>so he was already.

0:48:23.080 --> 0:48:24.960
<v Speaker 5>He was already, he'd homed in and he was.

0:48:24.960 --> 0:48:26.760
<v Speaker 4>And how far apart are you and your client?

0:48:27.120 --> 0:48:29.880
<v Speaker 5>She's about a meter to one side.

0:48:30.280 --> 0:48:33.239
<v Speaker 4>So he comes out, he's coming hard, and you throw

0:48:33.520 --> 0:48:36.319
<v Speaker 4>as he's running at you, You fling your stuff at him.

0:48:36.400 --> 0:48:38.759
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, he's already got his velocity.

0:48:38.360 --> 0:48:40.040
<v Speaker 6>And really make a great shot too.

0:48:41.719 --> 0:48:43.400
<v Speaker 5>It was pretty surprised when I hit it in the face.

0:48:44.600 --> 0:48:45.160
<v Speaker 2>Imagine what he.

0:48:48.360 --> 0:48:51.480
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, it worked, and he came straight at me and

0:48:51.480 --> 0:48:54.200
<v Speaker 5>and I dipped my shoulder, thinking I'll just take the

0:48:54.239 --> 0:48:57.520
<v Speaker 5>impact on my shoulder, and I didn't realize it was

0:48:57.560 --> 0:48:59.880
<v Speaker 5>going to be like being hit by a freight train basically,

0:49:00.520 --> 0:49:05.439
<v Speaker 5>And the impact threw me about twenty yards, no joke,

0:49:05.560 --> 0:49:09.960
<v Speaker 5>and I took most of it on my shoulder, but

0:49:10.160 --> 0:49:13.279
<v Speaker 5>then the secondary impact hit my head and I sort

0:49:13.280 --> 0:49:15.840
<v Speaker 5>of blacked out. So I woke up on the ground

0:49:15.880 --> 0:49:20.160
<v Speaker 5>and everything was sort of blurry and spinning around, and

0:49:20.200 --> 0:49:22.239
<v Speaker 5>I was trying to stand up, but I couldn't use

0:49:22.239 --> 0:49:25.440
<v Speaker 5>my one arm. And at the same time, all I

0:49:25.480 --> 0:49:27.799
<v Speaker 5>could think about is my client. Okay, so I'm so

0:49:27.880 --> 0:49:32.000
<v Speaker 5>shouting are Uka trying to locate her? And luckily one

0:49:32.040 --> 0:49:34.080
<v Speaker 5>of my trackers ran back and grabbed me and sort

0:49:34.120 --> 0:49:37.799
<v Speaker 5>of helped me stand up, and then I saw her

0:49:37.800 --> 0:49:41.520
<v Speaker 5>and she was absolutely fine and got told. The rest

0:49:41.560 --> 0:49:44.560
<v Speaker 5>of the story was basically, after it had flung me

0:49:44.640 --> 0:49:47.360
<v Speaker 5>twenty yards, it then decided it hadn't had enough and

0:49:48.000 --> 0:49:50.239
<v Speaker 5>came after me again and was just pounding me on the.

0:49:50.680 --> 0:49:52.120
<v Speaker 2>Ground while you were blacked out.

0:49:52.239 --> 0:49:57.399
<v Speaker 5>Yeah and yeah, so my butt was completely black, but I.

0:49:57.360 --> 0:50:00.520
<v Speaker 2>Don't remember this hook. Were still just doing with the boss.

0:50:00.560 --> 0:50:04.359
<v Speaker 5>They always use their head for everything. Yeah, and when

0:50:04.400 --> 0:50:07.680
<v Speaker 5>when it did this, my client, the young girl, basically

0:50:07.719 --> 0:50:11.080
<v Speaker 5>realized this was a buffalo, not a water buck. And

0:50:11.760 --> 0:50:13.840
<v Speaker 5>we'd had the discussion earlier that morning what to do

0:50:14.000 --> 0:50:16.200
<v Speaker 5>if you know, if we came across a buffalo in

0:50:16.280 --> 0:50:18.680
<v Speaker 5>a bad situation, and I sort of said, you know,

0:50:18.719 --> 0:50:21.560
<v Speaker 5>either get behind a bush if there's one nearby, or

0:50:22.000 --> 0:50:25.600
<v Speaker 5>life laud on the ground. And so there was one

0:50:25.680 --> 0:50:28.640
<v Speaker 5>bush right there, and she ran the sort of five

0:50:28.680 --> 0:50:30.919
<v Speaker 5>steps to get behind the bush, and it was enough

0:50:31.480 --> 0:50:35.200
<v Speaker 5>to attract the buffalo's attention off me onto her, and

0:50:35.239 --> 0:50:39.200
<v Speaker 5>it tried to then get her, smashed the one bush

0:50:39.280 --> 0:50:42.640
<v Speaker 5>and then ran off, never to be seen again, well

0:50:42.719 --> 0:50:44.680
<v Speaker 5>almost never to be seen again. Actually ran into our

0:50:44.719 --> 0:50:47.880
<v Speaker 5>anti poaching team, like who was setting up camp for

0:50:47.920 --> 0:50:50.320
<v Speaker 5>the night, and so that caused a bit of mayhem

0:50:50.400 --> 0:50:54.200
<v Speaker 5>there as well as it ran through. Yeah, and then

0:50:54.320 --> 0:50:56.720
<v Speaker 5>he was out of there, and they the anti poaching

0:50:56.719 --> 0:50:59.200
<v Speaker 5>team said that they noticed it had a bit of

0:50:59.200 --> 0:51:01.279
<v Speaker 5>a limp, and I think it had had a run

0:51:01.280 --> 0:51:04.360
<v Speaker 5>in with a lion or possibly a poacher at some point,

0:51:04.400 --> 0:51:07.640
<v Speaker 5>and one of its legs wasn't.

0:51:06.320 --> 0:51:08.520
<v Speaker 6>He didn't claim that, He said, well, I used to

0:51:08.560 --> 0:51:12.000
<v Speaker 6>play rugby. I gave him a pretty good shot.

0:51:13.120 --> 0:51:16.040
<v Speaker 5>But it did explain slightly why it behaved the way

0:51:16.080 --> 0:51:17.799
<v Speaker 5>it did and why it was in a place you

0:51:17.880 --> 0:51:22.600
<v Speaker 5>normally wouldn't expect to find a buffalo. So caught us

0:51:22.600 --> 0:51:23.080
<v Speaker 5>off guard.

0:51:24.040 --> 0:51:27.000
<v Speaker 6>Oh so he was also in terrain, Yeah, he was.

0:51:27.040 --> 0:51:28.960
<v Speaker 5>He was right in a very open area and normally

0:51:29.040 --> 0:51:31.279
<v Speaker 5>the buffalo will go to water and then they'll head

0:51:31.360 --> 0:51:34.719
<v Speaker 5>way off back into the hills and thickets and and

0:51:34.760 --> 0:51:37.480
<v Speaker 5>sort of disappear in the heat of the day. And

0:51:37.719 --> 0:51:40.319
<v Speaker 5>he'd stayed very close to the to the water's edge,

0:51:40.760 --> 0:51:44.160
<v Speaker 5>and I think probably because his leg was giving him problems.

0:51:44.600 --> 0:51:46.360
<v Speaker 5>And I presume when we came around the corner, he

0:51:46.400 --> 0:51:49.959
<v Speaker 5>must have thought we were after him, and he knew,

0:51:50.320 --> 0:51:52.480
<v Speaker 5>you know, he didn't have a chance to run away,

0:51:52.560 --> 0:51:55.799
<v Speaker 5>so he stood his ground, which, yeah, it wasn't great.

0:51:56.040 --> 0:51:59.040
<v Speaker 6>So what was the the damage in total?

0:51:59.840 --> 0:52:02.360
<v Speaker 5>So that's kind of a funny story.

0:52:02.400 --> 0:52:02.640
<v Speaker 2>So I.

0:52:04.600 --> 0:52:07.880
<v Speaker 5>Thought I'd dislocated my shoulder, like the track has stripped

0:52:07.880 --> 0:52:10.960
<v Speaker 5>me naked well down to my underwear, and because you know,

0:52:11.000 --> 0:52:13.640
<v Speaker 5>you sort of think, you don't know with all that adrenine,

0:52:13.680 --> 0:52:19.040
<v Speaker 5>I'm not sure what injuries you've sustained. And they realized

0:52:19.160 --> 0:52:22.239
<v Speaker 5>that basically I looked fine on the surface, apart from

0:52:22.239 --> 0:52:24.560
<v Speaker 5>I had this rhino horn sticking out of my out

0:52:24.600 --> 0:52:28.440
<v Speaker 5>of my shoulder and I couldn't really figure it. I

0:52:28.440 --> 0:52:30.640
<v Speaker 5>could still use my arm a little bit, but it

0:52:30.680 --> 0:52:32.200
<v Speaker 5>was painful, and.

0:52:32.160 --> 0:52:34.680
<v Speaker 6>Rhino horn sticking out of your shoulder was what it was.

0:52:34.719 --> 0:52:39.120
<v Speaker 5>My collarbane, okay, but I thought it was just dislocated,

0:52:39.120 --> 0:52:40.319
<v Speaker 5>and I thought I might be able to pop it

0:52:40.360 --> 0:52:44.359
<v Speaker 5>all back into place. So by now, it's about six

0:52:44.440 --> 0:52:47.200
<v Speaker 5>or fifteen in the evening, and as I was explaining earlier,

0:52:47.560 --> 0:52:52.879
<v Speaker 5>like it's basically two hours flying back to Arusha, and

0:52:52.920 --> 0:52:56.360
<v Speaker 5>we were about two hours from the air strip, so

0:52:57.239 --> 0:52:59.040
<v Speaker 5>the whole process was going to take four hours, and

0:52:59.080 --> 0:53:02.440
<v Speaker 5>we only had half an hour daylight. And we were

0:53:02.480 --> 0:53:05.160
<v Speaker 5>all members of this thing called flying Doctors, where if

0:53:05.200 --> 0:53:07.160
<v Speaker 5>you have an incident a plane or fly in with

0:53:07.160 --> 0:53:10.200
<v Speaker 5>a doctor and you know, basically rescue you and take

0:53:10.200 --> 0:53:12.319
<v Speaker 5>you back to hospital. But I kind of knew it

0:53:12.320 --> 0:53:14.680
<v Speaker 5>was too late to call them, so I thought the

0:53:14.680 --> 0:53:18.160
<v Speaker 5>best plan just get back to the camp, And so

0:53:18.239 --> 0:53:20.239
<v Speaker 5>I gave her a couple of beers because I knew

0:53:20.280 --> 0:53:22.719
<v Speaker 5>the shock was only going to help for a little

0:53:22.760 --> 0:53:25.280
<v Speaker 5>while and I want to keep her sort of calm,

0:53:26.320 --> 0:53:29.480
<v Speaker 5>And I decided to drive back to camp as a

0:53:29.560 --> 0:53:31.560
<v Speaker 5>kind of distraction. And also I thought the more I

0:53:31.640 --> 0:53:35.040
<v Speaker 5>used my shoulder, the less it would stiffen up. So

0:53:35.719 --> 0:53:39.520
<v Speaker 5>we drove forty five minutes back to our camp, arrived,

0:53:39.760 --> 0:53:42.160
<v Speaker 5>you know, just after dark, and everyone else had just

0:53:42.280 --> 0:53:47.040
<v Speaker 5>arrived as well, and so they straight away sort of. Well,

0:53:47.080 --> 0:53:49.440
<v Speaker 5>my brother lectured me on why didn't I have my rifle,

0:53:49.480 --> 0:53:52.960
<v Speaker 5>which supers literally the number one rule is you never

0:53:53.040 --> 0:53:55.600
<v Speaker 5>leave the car without your rifle. And the one time

0:53:55.600 --> 0:53:57.040
<v Speaker 5>I broke it, this happened.

0:53:57.719 --> 0:53:59.080
<v Speaker 2>Do you think you would have gotten the shot off

0:53:59.080 --> 0:53:59.680
<v Speaker 2>if you'd heard it?

0:54:00.120 --> 0:54:01.960
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, definitely. I mean I had enough time to hit

0:54:02.000 --> 0:54:04.600
<v Speaker 5>it in the head with a stick, so I think

0:54:04.640 --> 0:54:09.400
<v Speaker 5>I could have shot it. But anyway, hindsight, it's a

0:54:09.440 --> 0:54:13.279
<v Speaker 5>lovely thing. But so anyway, we get back and they

0:54:13.560 --> 0:54:16.320
<v Speaker 5>feed me some painkillers and I have a shower, and

0:54:16.480 --> 0:54:18.799
<v Speaker 5>it's not beginning to stiffen up a little bit. So

0:54:19.680 --> 0:54:22.160
<v Speaker 5>we decided to try on YouTube how to relocate your

0:54:22.360 --> 0:54:26.279
<v Speaker 5>your shoulder. So I'm now lying on the dining room

0:54:26.320 --> 0:54:29.000
<v Speaker 5>table lifting my arm above my head.

0:54:29.239 --> 0:54:32.160
<v Speaker 2>No doubt, watch those ads. Everyone knows.

0:54:35.360 --> 0:54:40.439
<v Speaker 5>Right, and I'm hoping it's going to just pop back

0:54:40.480 --> 0:54:46.359
<v Speaker 5>in and nothing happens. So eventually the father's like, well,

0:54:46.360 --> 0:54:49.120
<v Speaker 5>actually we should call my brother in law, who's an

0:54:49.200 --> 0:54:51.840
<v Speaker 5>orthopedic surgeon's law.

0:54:51.719 --> 0:54:53.840
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, he's like, is he on YouTube?

0:54:55.600 --> 0:54:58.440
<v Speaker 5>Luckily we've got Wi Fi and camp so yeah, we

0:54:58.480 --> 0:55:00.440
<v Speaker 5>have this sort of satellite Wi Fi. So we we

0:55:00.600 --> 0:55:03.520
<v Speaker 5>FaceTime him and it's it's like four in the morning

0:55:03.560 --> 0:55:07.560
<v Speaker 5>in the States, and amazingly he answers and he realizes

0:55:07.600 --> 0:55:10.560
<v Speaker 5>straight away it must be quite serious, and so like, yeah,

0:55:10.560 --> 0:55:12.040
<v Speaker 5>there's been a bit of an incident, but we really

0:55:12.080 --> 0:55:15.839
<v Speaker 5>want you just to diagnose this problem. So I like

0:55:15.960 --> 0:55:17.799
<v Speaker 5>showing my injury and I said that when I bend

0:55:17.840 --> 0:55:20.320
<v Speaker 5>down like this, it sticks up like a ride a

0:55:20.440 --> 0:55:24.440
<v Speaker 5>horn and I thought it was dislocated. And he's like, no, no, no,

0:55:24.480 --> 0:55:27.720
<v Speaker 5>you've you've separated your ac joint and there's no fixing

0:55:27.760 --> 0:55:31.839
<v Speaker 5>that you need surgery, and so we give up on

0:55:31.880 --> 0:55:40.239
<v Speaker 5>the YouTube and least opinion, yeah, and he was like, yeah,

0:55:40.239 --> 0:55:42.800
<v Speaker 5>there's there's three or four grades and you've you've basically

0:55:42.880 --> 0:55:47.360
<v Speaker 5>done the worst. So there's no hope. And so I

0:55:47.400 --> 0:55:50.319
<v Speaker 5>go to sleep and we wake up in the morning

0:55:50.400 --> 0:55:53.920
<v Speaker 5>and I'm pretty stiff, like because also my Sternham everything's

0:55:53.960 --> 0:55:59.040
<v Speaker 5>been basically just smashed, and so every time someone makes

0:55:59.040 --> 0:56:03.800
<v Speaker 5>me laugh like I'm literally dying with pain. And anyway,

0:56:03.800 --> 0:56:06.480
<v Speaker 5>I wake up and I was planning. I was actually

0:56:06.560 --> 0:56:10.239
<v Speaker 5>leaving the trip in three days anyway, so we're sort

0:56:10.239 --> 0:56:13.120
<v Speaker 5>of debating whether to call the flying doctors or if

0:56:13.160 --> 0:56:16.920
<v Speaker 5>I just waited out. And I was flying back to

0:56:17.000 --> 0:56:19.520
<v Speaker 5>England from Tanzania, and I actually thought this was easier

0:56:19.560 --> 0:56:22.920
<v Speaker 5>to just stay in camp and there was no blood

0:56:22.920 --> 0:56:24.480
<v Speaker 5>in my urine because I was the thing I was

0:56:24.520 --> 0:56:28.520
<v Speaker 5>more worried about was internal injuries. So, I mean, my

0:56:28.600 --> 0:56:31.920
<v Speaker 5>wife literally killed me when when she eventually found out

0:56:31.920 --> 0:56:35.200
<v Speaker 5>about all this. But I made the decision to stay

0:56:35.239 --> 0:56:40.439
<v Speaker 5>and do the last three days of the trip, and yeah,

0:56:40.480 --> 0:56:43.279
<v Speaker 5>we actually had a pretty successful time. I managed to

0:56:43.320 --> 0:56:46.480
<v Speaker 5>hunt seit a tunguer in the crocodile or really with

0:56:46.520 --> 0:56:49.200
<v Speaker 5>one arm. I sort of figured how to hold onto

0:56:49.239 --> 0:56:51.520
<v Speaker 5>my shirt so I wouldn't move my arm around because

0:56:51.520 --> 0:56:53.360
<v Speaker 5>it was basically wasn't too painful as long as I

0:56:53.360 --> 0:56:53.719
<v Speaker 5>didn't move.

0:56:53.840 --> 0:56:56.200
<v Speaker 6>So did you switch up rifles at that point so

0:56:56.239 --> 0:56:59.680
<v Speaker 6>you could operate something with one arm? No, because you

0:56:59.800 --> 0:57:00.720
<v Speaker 6>just out the lecture.

0:57:01.040 --> 0:57:04.239
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, well so I could with pain, I could use

0:57:04.280 --> 0:57:06.959
<v Speaker 5>my rifle. I just couldn't lift it above my head.

0:57:07.360 --> 0:57:09.400
<v Speaker 5>I mean my my arm basically couldn't lift my arm

0:57:09.440 --> 0:57:12.239
<v Speaker 5>above my head. So I did try. I actually went

0:57:12.320 --> 0:57:13.240
<v Speaker 5>looking for the buff.

0:57:14.719 --> 0:57:15.799
<v Speaker 4>So you already tried to find him.

0:57:16.000 --> 0:57:18.200
<v Speaker 5>I did try and find him, but it was I

0:57:18.320 --> 0:57:20.160
<v Speaker 5>realized I was actually not being very clever, so we

0:57:20.200 --> 0:57:22.000
<v Speaker 5>didn't look for it for very long.

0:57:24.640 --> 0:57:28.160
<v Speaker 4>No, I haven't these guys that set out what do

0:57:28.240 --> 0:57:28.880
<v Speaker 4>they want to kill?

0:57:29.200 --> 0:57:33.240
<v Speaker 2>Tiger kills And.

0:57:33.200 --> 0:57:36.120
<v Speaker 4>It's a whole movie about him trying to find this

0:57:36.120 --> 0:57:39.200
<v Speaker 4>this exact Jaguars shark and kill it.

0:57:39.200 --> 0:57:41.480
<v Speaker 2>It's a comedy. But yeah, that's like you.

0:57:41.320 --> 0:57:47.240
<v Speaker 5>Like father Bounty on the buffalo, the father of the

0:57:47.280 --> 0:57:49.680
<v Speaker 5>girl that was with me, really and he was like, yeah,

0:57:49.720 --> 0:57:53.000
<v Speaker 5>any any of your other clients coming through after we leave,

0:57:54.280 --> 0:57:57.880
<v Speaker 5>I'll pay the game fee. Just you know, we need

0:57:57.880 --> 0:57:59.960
<v Speaker 5>to to exact a little bit of revenge.

0:58:01.120 --> 0:58:02.919
<v Speaker 2>I followed the tracks for a little bit a month

0:58:03.000 --> 0:58:05.000
<v Speaker 2>or so later, couldn't couldn't get on him. So he

0:58:05.080 --> 0:58:06.960
<v Speaker 2>was still alive. Oh he was out there. Yeah, did

0:58:06.960 --> 0:58:07.720
<v Speaker 2>he have a bad loop?

0:58:08.200 --> 0:58:08.320
<v Speaker 5>Uh?

0:58:08.880 --> 0:58:10.960
<v Speaker 2>The trackers said they could see from the tracks that

0:58:11.000 --> 0:58:13.200
<v Speaker 2>there was something going on with one of his legs. Yeah,

0:58:13.280 --> 0:58:14.880
<v Speaker 2>and they were certain it was him. I mean they

0:58:15.600 --> 0:58:17.120
<v Speaker 2>knew that was that buffalo for sure.

0:58:17.720 --> 0:58:17.880
<v Speaker 8>Huh.

0:58:18.120 --> 0:58:19.880
<v Speaker 2>So we went we went for it for a little while,

0:58:19.920 --> 0:58:22.720
<v Speaker 2>but it just kind of it wasn't viable.

0:58:23.360 --> 0:58:27.760
<v Speaker 6>Getting out of like his his his convalescent zone.

0:58:27.880 --> 0:58:31.000
<v Speaker 2>He was within he was within a mile of where

0:58:31.000 --> 0:58:34.080
<v Speaker 2>he hit Roger, and he was sort of doing the

0:58:34.120 --> 0:58:36.240
<v Speaker 2>same thing. He was hanging out by those sort of

0:58:36.320 --> 0:58:40.200
<v Speaker 2>vegetation islands. But he did once when we followed him,

0:58:40.200 --> 0:58:43.600
<v Speaker 2>he had gone kind of into the woodland and headed

0:58:43.640 --> 0:58:47.120
<v Speaker 2>towards some thickets and some kind of higher country with

0:58:47.240 --> 0:58:49.400
<v Speaker 2>swirling wind, and yeah, we just couldn't get on him.

0:58:49.440 --> 0:58:52.360
<v Speaker 2>So I think I think he you know, I think

0:58:52.360 --> 0:58:54.720
<v Speaker 2>he's sort of reverting back. Maybe he was doing a

0:58:54.760 --> 0:59:02.760
<v Speaker 2>little better. Yeah, maybe he lifted his mirale. You had

0:59:02.800 --> 0:59:05.440
<v Speaker 2>your surgery in the US, in the UK, or you

0:59:05.480 --> 0:59:07.400
<v Speaker 2>had surgery in the UK and then came here to

0:59:07.480 --> 0:59:07.959
<v Speaker 2>chill out.

0:59:08.440 --> 0:59:12.400
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, so we always come over in January anyway, and

0:59:12.520 --> 0:59:16.520
<v Speaker 5>you know, for the hunting conventions, and I kind of

0:59:16.520 --> 0:59:19.640
<v Speaker 5>figured it would be a good time to do something

0:59:19.680 --> 0:59:22.680
<v Speaker 5>different and have a bit of time out from Africa

0:59:22.800 --> 0:59:25.240
<v Speaker 5>and brought my family over and have been living in

0:59:25.240 --> 0:59:27.240
<v Speaker 5>the Montana Dream which has been incredible.

0:59:27.360 --> 0:59:29.440
<v Speaker 4>And when do you got to go back? In about

0:59:29.440 --> 0:59:32.520
<v Speaker 4>five days, you'll go back to Tanzania. Yeah, and do

0:59:32.600 --> 0:59:33.680
<v Speaker 4>your summer hunting season.

0:59:33.800 --> 0:59:35.600
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, so it's all about to kick off.

0:59:36.840 --> 0:59:38.880
<v Speaker 4>I want I want you guys to talk about trackers.

0:59:39.080 --> 0:59:41.960
<v Speaker 4>You talk about trackers a lot. And what I thought

0:59:42.040 --> 0:59:44.240
<v Speaker 4>was interesting when you when you when you guys came

0:59:44.280 --> 0:59:50.720
<v Speaker 4>for dinner, is uh, you discuss trackers, is like you

0:59:54.280 --> 0:59:55.720
<v Speaker 4>acquiesced to their judgment.

0:59:56.320 --> 1:00:03.480
<v Speaker 2>Definitely, Definitely in my view, the trackers sometimes aren't spoken

1:00:03.520 --> 1:00:07.680
<v Speaker 2>about with the kind of reverence that they deserve. And

1:00:07.920 --> 1:00:10.560
<v Speaker 2>I would say, for me, as someone that wasn't born

1:00:10.640 --> 1:00:14.080
<v Speaker 2>into a professional hunting family or born on the African continent,

1:00:14.640 --> 1:00:19.240
<v Speaker 2>the greatest privilege of doing what I do and being

1:00:19.320 --> 1:00:24.960
<v Speaker 2>part of this industry is working with those trackers. And

1:00:25.200 --> 1:00:29.000
<v Speaker 2>the way I see my job is our industry kind

1:00:29.000 --> 1:00:33.479
<v Speaker 2>of has this sort of trifector and you know, there's

1:00:33.480 --> 1:00:37.240
<v Speaker 2>obviously the foreign client that makes everything we do possible.

1:00:37.320 --> 1:00:41.920
<v Speaker 2>You know, that's the revenue source, and then there's the trackers,

1:00:42.360 --> 1:00:44.920
<v Speaker 2>and then there's the professional hunter. And I see the

1:00:45.000 --> 1:00:47.800
<v Speaker 2>role of the professional hunter as kind of the glue

1:00:47.920 --> 1:00:52.520
<v Speaker 2>that binds those two other halves, you know, the tracking

1:00:52.560 --> 1:00:55.040
<v Speaker 2>team and the foreign client, and kind of brings that

1:00:55.960 --> 1:01:00.760
<v Speaker 2>unit together to be a successful hunting hunting team. But

1:01:00.880 --> 1:01:05.040
<v Speaker 2>what they do and the way that they allow us

1:01:05.040 --> 1:01:06.920
<v Speaker 2>to be able to hunt. You know, it's so funny

1:01:06.960 --> 1:01:12.720
<v Speaker 2>because you know, oftentimes professional hunting, you know, has its

1:01:12.800 --> 1:01:15.320
<v Speaker 2>roots in kind of the early you know, the guys

1:01:15.320 --> 1:01:17.840
<v Speaker 2>we talked about before, you know, the sort of Philip percivals,

1:01:17.840 --> 1:01:20.520
<v Speaker 2>the FC Salus of the world that kind of opened

1:01:20.560 --> 1:01:22.840
<v Speaker 2>up a lot of this country. And they're obviously from

1:01:22.880 --> 1:01:25.840
<v Speaker 2>the European hunting tradition and a lot of that's carried

1:01:25.880 --> 1:01:28.800
<v Speaker 2>over we you know, we look for old bulls, We

1:01:28.880 --> 1:01:33.320
<v Speaker 2>hunt males of the species exclusively, you know, which you know,

1:01:33.440 --> 1:01:35.600
<v Speaker 2>the sort of trophy hunting aspect if you want to

1:01:35.600 --> 1:01:38.400
<v Speaker 2>call it, that comes from that European tradition. But we

1:01:38.520 --> 1:01:42.400
<v Speaker 2>hunt in an African way, you know, those the tradition

1:01:42.480 --> 1:01:46.000
<v Speaker 2>that European hunters or American hunters in many cases have

1:01:46.120 --> 1:01:48.200
<v Speaker 2>come from. And I know there's some tracking in the

1:01:48.360 --> 1:01:50.640
<v Speaker 2>in the north Woods and that sort of stuff is

1:01:50.680 --> 1:01:53.360
<v Speaker 2>you know, either sitting in a stand or spot in stalk.

1:01:53.880 --> 1:01:57.400
<v Speaker 2>We hunt the African way, which is following animals tracks,

1:01:57.560 --> 1:01:59.800
<v Speaker 2>and I can't do it. You know, I've been in

1:01:59.840 --> 1:02:04.000
<v Speaker 2>this industry for a good long while and watched what

1:02:04.120 --> 1:02:08.480
<v Speaker 2>they do with just keen interest, but oftentimes just amazement

1:02:08.760 --> 1:02:12.360
<v Speaker 2>at how they're able to sort out tracks that have

1:02:13.040 --> 1:02:15.680
<v Speaker 2>mingled with other animals. You know, you're following a single

1:02:15.720 --> 1:02:17.680
<v Speaker 2>buffalo and it mingles with a herd for a while

1:02:17.720 --> 1:02:20.520
<v Speaker 2>then separates off again. They can sort that out. They

1:02:20.560 --> 1:02:22.920
<v Speaker 2>can sort out that one animal. Yeah, keep on that

1:02:23.000 --> 1:02:25.440
<v Speaker 2>one animal. And it's not just buffalo. They can do

1:02:25.480 --> 1:02:26.800
<v Speaker 2>it for almost any species.

1:02:26.840 --> 1:02:31.720
<v Speaker 4>What allows them wow, why phenomenal?

1:02:31.880 --> 1:02:36.440
<v Speaker 2>So a great tracker is both born and made. In

1:02:36.520 --> 1:02:41.920
<v Speaker 2>my opinion, they have exceptional eyesight, I mean just phenomenal

1:02:41.960 --> 1:02:45.840
<v Speaker 2>ability to see things up close and in the distance.

1:02:46.320 --> 1:02:51.000
<v Speaker 2>It's their eyesight is it's borderline superhuman. And they have

1:02:51.440 --> 1:02:55.800
<v Speaker 2>a great tracker has a feel for what the animals

1:02:55.800 --> 1:03:00.880
<v Speaker 2>are going to do and also for the terrain that

1:03:00.920 --> 1:03:04.520
<v Speaker 2>they inhabit and how the animals will use that terrain.

1:03:05.160 --> 1:03:09.120
<v Speaker 2>And a great tracker, you know, generally speaking, they'll be

1:03:09.200 --> 1:03:11.920
<v Speaker 2>very familiar with an area that you're hunting in, possibly

1:03:12.000 --> 1:03:14.600
<v Speaker 2>because they grew up in a similar area or on

1:03:14.680 --> 1:03:17.960
<v Speaker 2>the periphery of the hunting area that oftentimes from those

1:03:18.000 --> 1:03:22.640
<v Speaker 2>communities that Roger was talking about before, or you know,

1:03:23.040 --> 1:03:25.520
<v Speaker 2>and Roger can sort of expand on this because his

1:03:25.600 --> 1:03:27.400
<v Speaker 2>dad was kind of the master of this. They were

1:03:27.440 --> 1:03:31.440
<v Speaker 2>a former poacher that basically you know, Robin Hurt Safaris

1:03:31.520 --> 1:03:34.520
<v Speaker 2>turned straight and brought into the fold as a tracker.

1:03:35.440 --> 1:03:38.960
<v Speaker 2>And those guys, they you know, they have this intuition

1:03:39.040 --> 1:03:40.800
<v Speaker 2>about where the animals are going to go, what they're

1:03:40.800 --> 1:03:44.480
<v Speaker 2>going to do at different times of the day, and

1:03:44.520 --> 1:03:47.960
<v Speaker 2>you'll get a sense of that. You know, I'm cognizant

1:03:48.000 --> 1:03:49.960
<v Speaker 2>of some things that are happening. You know, for example,

1:03:50.080 --> 1:03:53.200
<v Speaker 2>if you're following a buffalo that's coming from water and

1:03:53.240 --> 1:03:55.800
<v Speaker 2>you see it starts to sort of cast around back

1:03:55.840 --> 1:03:58.120
<v Speaker 2>and forward, you know, it's looking for a place to

1:03:58.520 --> 1:04:01.720
<v Speaker 2>lay down, and you'll often think, okay, we're potentially getting

1:04:01.760 --> 1:04:03.920
<v Speaker 2>clos here. You know, that buffalo is getting ready to bed.

1:04:04.440 --> 1:04:07.320
<v Speaker 2>But there is so much more that they can intue

1:04:07.320 --> 1:04:09.200
<v Speaker 2>it from those tracks and from the you know, the

1:04:09.280 --> 1:04:12.040
<v Speaker 2>marks that the animal makes on the ground that are

1:04:12.120 --> 1:04:16.000
<v Speaker 2>just beyond my understanding. It's just my ability to interpret.

1:04:16.200 --> 1:04:19.040
<v Speaker 2>It's second nature to them. I mean the way you were,

1:04:19.080 --> 1:04:20.560
<v Speaker 2>but you were brought up in this world.

1:04:20.880 --> 1:04:24.040
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, so, I mean my childhood was spent basically my

1:04:24.360 --> 1:04:26.320
<v Speaker 5>dad used to hunt ten months of the year.

1:04:26.440 --> 1:04:28.040
<v Speaker 2>But the trackers are better than you still.

1:04:28.320 --> 1:04:30.080
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, but the only time I would see him would

1:04:30.080 --> 1:04:33.000
<v Speaker 5>be to go on safari. So all my holidays were

1:04:33.040 --> 1:04:36.000
<v Speaker 5>spent on safari. And my favorite part of the day

1:04:36.280 --> 1:04:38.520
<v Speaker 5>was when the hunters would come back and it was

1:04:38.760 --> 1:04:42.160
<v Speaker 5>siesta time, and the trackers were like some of my

1:04:42.520 --> 1:04:45.360
<v Speaker 5>best friends and sort of nannies, and we'd go off

1:04:45.840 --> 1:04:48.920
<v Speaker 5>adventuring in the middle of the day and set traps

1:04:48.960 --> 1:04:52.520
<v Speaker 5>for guinea fowl and climb beare bab trees looking for

1:04:52.600 --> 1:04:55.680
<v Speaker 5>honey and just learning how to make poison arrows. I mean,

1:04:56.160 --> 1:05:00.120
<v Speaker 5>these guys just they lived off the ground. And as

1:05:00.160 --> 1:05:03.000
<v Speaker 5>as Morgan was saying, a lot of them were converted

1:05:03.040 --> 1:05:05.960
<v Speaker 5>poaches and something talk about something.

1:05:06.560 --> 1:05:08.080
<v Speaker 2>You mentioned that to me when we heard dinner.

1:05:08.160 --> 1:05:10.920
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, Well, what people didn't realize is there's there's different

1:05:10.960 --> 1:05:15.000
<v Speaker 5>forms of poaching in Africa. There's the ivory poachers, who

1:05:15.040 --> 1:05:20.480
<v Speaker 5>are obviously very heavily armed, totally commercial and nasty and

1:05:20.760 --> 1:05:24.360
<v Speaker 5>you know, zero tolerance and of course you call in

1:05:24.400 --> 1:05:27.080
<v Speaker 5>the game department if you ever see one. And then

1:05:27.080 --> 1:05:30.640
<v Speaker 5>there's commercial meat poachers who often all have a rifle

1:05:31.280 --> 1:05:33.880
<v Speaker 5>and they're going out just to sell the meat, and

1:05:33.920 --> 1:05:36.760
<v Speaker 5>then you have what I call like the subsistence poacher,

1:05:36.920 --> 1:05:41.120
<v Speaker 5>the opportunistic poacher who's your average farmer who lives nearby

1:05:41.400 --> 1:05:44.600
<v Speaker 5>and the temptation to try and get something to feed

1:05:44.600 --> 1:05:48.000
<v Speaker 5>his family. And some of them even you know, we're

1:05:48.040 --> 1:05:52.200
<v Speaker 5>traditionally hunter gatherers, you know, by nature, and you know

1:05:52.240 --> 1:05:54.480
<v Speaker 5>the rules of the world have made them into a poacher.

1:05:56.080 --> 1:06:01.000
<v Speaker 4>But so an individual might have grew up, yeah, hunting

1:06:01.040 --> 1:06:03.080
<v Speaker 4>these areas, and at some point someone said that's not

1:06:03.120 --> 1:06:04.160
<v Speaker 4>how it goes down anymore.

1:06:04.280 --> 1:06:06.880
<v Speaker 5>Yeah. So, I mean, we used to have a hunting

1:06:06.920 --> 1:06:11.400
<v Speaker 5>area on the edge of a traditional hunter gatherer tribe's

1:06:11.440 --> 1:06:14.960
<v Speaker 5>sort of boundary, and they were always coming in to

1:06:15.040 --> 1:06:17.320
<v Speaker 5>try and hunt something with their bow and arrow, and

1:06:18.760 --> 1:06:21.280
<v Speaker 5>you'd sort of feel sorry for them and drive them around,

1:06:21.320 --> 1:06:24.520
<v Speaker 5>threaten that they were potentially going to go to jail.

1:06:25.200 --> 1:06:28.040
<v Speaker 5>And then my dad would often be like, or you

1:06:28.080 --> 1:06:30.080
<v Speaker 5>could come and work for me and make a living

1:06:30.400 --> 1:06:35.000
<v Speaker 5>doing what you're doing and it will be legal. And

1:06:35.080 --> 1:06:37.280
<v Speaker 5>so a lot of the track has still work for us.

1:06:37.320 --> 1:06:40.160
<v Speaker 5>They've been with us for forty five years and were

1:06:40.160 --> 1:06:41.760
<v Speaker 5>ex poaches at the time.

1:06:43.280 --> 1:06:47.120
<v Speaker 4>Do they enjoy it or is it just that desk

1:06:47.640 --> 1:06:49.760
<v Speaker 4>or just the situation they were.

1:06:49.680 --> 1:06:52.800
<v Speaker 5>Dealt, they love it. And the main thing is in Africa,

1:06:52.920 --> 1:06:58.440
<v Speaker 5>like meat is literally a very rare commodity and placed

1:06:58.680 --> 1:07:03.120
<v Speaker 5>very high on a sort of pedestal. So for these guys,

1:07:03.280 --> 1:07:05.880
<v Speaker 5>they weren't actually interested in the money, but when they

1:07:05.920 --> 1:07:08.960
<v Speaker 5>realized how much meat they were going to get, and

1:07:09.040 --> 1:07:11.240
<v Speaker 5>you know, to in Africa, most people have meat in

1:07:11.280 --> 1:07:14.960
<v Speaker 5>their diet maybe once in a week, you know, one

1:07:15.000 --> 1:07:16.680
<v Speaker 5>meal in a whole week will have meat in it.

1:07:17.240 --> 1:07:20.480
<v Speaker 5>So for them to be able to literally gorge themselves

1:07:20.480 --> 1:07:23.080
<v Speaker 5>on as much meat as they can, dry everything that's

1:07:23.160 --> 1:07:26.000
<v Speaker 5>left over, take some home for their families at the

1:07:26.120 --> 1:07:28.720
<v Speaker 5>end of the season, I mean that that was why

1:07:28.920 --> 1:07:32.640
<v Speaker 5>they decided to come and work with us, really, and

1:07:33.280 --> 1:07:34.880
<v Speaker 5>you know, the only way I can explain it is

1:07:34.920 --> 1:07:38.000
<v Speaker 5>like the tracking going back to the tracking is like

1:07:38.320 --> 1:07:40.920
<v Speaker 5>it's it's like reading a newspaper. For them, they look

1:07:40.920 --> 1:07:43.280
<v Speaker 5>around at the ground and they can see everything that's

1:07:43.320 --> 1:07:46.720
<v Speaker 5>happened that morning, you see, and you know, they didn't

1:07:46.720 --> 1:07:49.480
<v Speaker 5>have any interaction with the outside world, so that was

1:07:49.520 --> 1:07:52.280
<v Speaker 5>their entire focus. So it's a lot of it is

1:07:52.360 --> 1:07:56.320
<v Speaker 5>born and bred into them. It's yeah, I think there's

1:07:56.320 --> 1:07:59.600
<v Speaker 5>a lot of it that can't be taught. And yeah,

1:07:59.680 --> 1:08:03.880
<v Speaker 5>I mean it's not a dark art, right, They're seeing

1:08:03.920 --> 1:08:07.840
<v Speaker 5>something on the ground, but and oftentimes we can see

1:08:07.840 --> 1:08:11.280
<v Speaker 5>it too, we just can't interpret it the way they can.

1:08:11.560 --> 1:08:16.719
<v Speaker 5>And yeah, they're incredible characters to be around, and hearing

1:08:16.720 --> 1:08:18.640
<v Speaker 5>their stories about how they learned how to do what

1:08:18.680 --> 1:08:21.960
<v Speaker 5>they do is it's fascinating. It's such a privilege and

1:08:22.000 --> 1:08:26.519
<v Speaker 5>it's so different from how how people hunt in North

1:08:26.560 --> 1:08:29.560
<v Speaker 5>America or Europe or anything else. It just, you know,

1:08:29.720 --> 1:08:33.280
<v Speaker 5>it's it's incredible to see.

1:08:32.479 --> 1:08:36.080
<v Speaker 4>When you talk about that they dry a lot of meat.

1:08:36.080 --> 1:08:36.920
<v Speaker 4>How does that go down?

1:08:37.360 --> 1:08:37.439
<v Speaker 5>Do?

1:08:37.560 --> 1:08:40.679
<v Speaker 2>I mean? Are there? Because that's not a small task.

1:08:41.000 --> 1:08:46.439
<v Speaker 5>It's everything. Basically, when when you hunt something successfully, they

1:08:46.880 --> 1:08:50.800
<v Speaker 5>they skin off you know, the skin and the head

1:08:50.840 --> 1:08:53.440
<v Speaker 5>and any trophies that the client wants.

1:08:53.520 --> 1:08:54.840
<v Speaker 2>And the trackers do that work.

1:08:55.040 --> 1:08:57.519
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, they'll they'll do the easier bits and then it

1:08:57.560 --> 1:08:59.760
<v Speaker 5>goes back to camp and the skinner will split the

1:08:59.800 --> 1:09:02.240
<v Speaker 5>lit in the ears and around the all the sort

1:09:02.240 --> 1:09:05.800
<v Speaker 5>of more complicated bits back in camp. But they'll do

1:09:05.880 --> 1:09:08.680
<v Speaker 5>the field preparation as such, and then you know a

1:09:08.720 --> 1:09:10.720
<v Speaker 5>lot of the animals are too big to load into

1:09:10.760 --> 1:09:13.160
<v Speaker 5>the back of a car, so you'll chop it up

1:09:13.160 --> 1:09:18.519
<v Speaker 5>into sizeable chunks. But by the time they're finished, everything

1:09:18.520 --> 1:09:21.120
<v Speaker 5>has been loaded into the car, with the exception of

1:09:21.240 --> 1:09:24.800
<v Speaker 5>a big pile of grass basically and the lungs, I mean,

1:09:24.840 --> 1:09:28.800
<v Speaker 5>the stomach lining has taken the intestines. Everything has a

1:09:28.920 --> 1:09:32.680
<v Speaker 5>use and nothing goes to waste. I mean literally, that's

1:09:32.720 --> 1:09:34.240
<v Speaker 5>all that's left as a pile of grass.

1:09:34.479 --> 1:09:37.320
<v Speaker 2>And our camps sort of have like a behind the

1:09:37.360 --> 1:09:41.360
<v Speaker 2>scenes operation that's processing. Obviously, you know, when you're on

1:09:41.479 --> 1:09:44.639
<v Speaker 2>Safari as a client, you're eating one hundred percent game.

1:09:45.000 --> 1:09:48.440
<v Speaker 2>You know, the kitchen in camp is turning out incredible

1:09:48.600 --> 1:09:51.320
<v Speaker 2>food made from you know, the animals that you hunt.

1:09:51.680 --> 1:09:54.120
<v Speaker 2>But then there's this sort of whole parallel operation kind

1:09:54.120 --> 1:09:57.200
<v Speaker 2>of behind the scenes of processing all that all that

1:09:57.280 --> 1:10:03.600
<v Speaker 2>protein and preserving it through drying and smoking to be

1:10:04.040 --> 1:10:07.759
<v Speaker 2>a product that our whole team basically can take back

1:10:08.040 --> 1:10:11.920
<v Speaker 2>to their communities, to their families and just sort of

1:10:11.920 --> 1:10:15.040
<v Speaker 2>sustain themselves throughout the off season. And it's a huge

1:10:15.160 --> 1:10:19.360
<v Speaker 2>draw that pulls people into our industry because yeah, that

1:10:19.560 --> 1:10:22.519
<v Speaker 2>access to protein is just priceless. It's a big deal.

1:10:23.280 --> 1:10:26.360
<v Speaker 2>And then we support some of those surrounding communities directly

1:10:26.400 --> 1:10:29.000
<v Speaker 2>with meat as well, will either take fresh meat there

1:10:29.040 --> 1:10:31.720
<v Speaker 2>if we're in kind of close proximity, or that that

1:10:31.800 --> 1:10:35.599
<v Speaker 2>dried smoked product will go to the surrounding communities as well,

1:10:36.000 --> 1:10:39.000
<v Speaker 2>you know, to feed people there. And it's a big deal.

1:10:39.640 --> 1:10:40.200
<v Speaker 2>What is the.

1:10:42.200 --> 1:10:45.639
<v Speaker 4>What is the sort of like your trackers are from

1:10:45.640 --> 1:10:46.519
<v Speaker 4>what cultural group?

1:10:46.680 --> 1:10:48.040
<v Speaker 2>Only know the rate lingo.

1:10:48.200 --> 1:10:51.040
<v Speaker 5>So they come from all sorts of different tribes. I

1:10:51.040 --> 1:10:56.000
<v Speaker 5>mean generally what happens is initially you get people from

1:10:56.000 --> 1:10:59.360
<v Speaker 5>the area. So in mars Island, most of the trackers

1:10:59.360 --> 1:11:02.519
<v Speaker 5>of Marsailles because they understand the animals that you get there.

1:11:03.240 --> 1:11:05.559
<v Speaker 5>That's the amazing thing with Tanzania is the variety of

1:11:05.560 --> 1:11:09.879
<v Speaker 5>species that we hunt. And different parts of the country

1:11:10.200 --> 1:11:14.280
<v Speaker 5>have completely different animals. So like in mass Island you

1:11:14.360 --> 1:11:18.160
<v Speaker 5>have lesser kudu and geranok and the gazelles, and then

1:11:18.200 --> 1:11:20.960
<v Speaker 5>you go to western Tanzania where you've got the sable

1:11:21.040 --> 1:11:24.839
<v Speaker 5>and roan antelope and siatungo. So it's it's very different,

1:11:25.479 --> 1:11:27.880
<v Speaker 5>and so you need people that have grown up with

1:11:28.040 --> 1:11:31.920
<v Speaker 5>those animals. Yeah, so we've got a whole mix of

1:11:31.920 --> 1:11:34.960
<v Speaker 5>tribes for you know, each of our camps basically has

1:11:35.400 --> 1:11:39.320
<v Speaker 5>people from that area, and then the one area basically

1:11:41.200 --> 1:11:44.240
<v Speaker 5>on the edge of the Serengetti had probably the most

1:11:44.280 --> 1:11:48.000
<v Speaker 5>amazing trackers that the Hudsonby people. And they're sort of

1:11:48.000 --> 1:11:51.920
<v Speaker 5>offshoots and they're about the only tribe that really can

1:11:51.960 --> 1:11:55.120
<v Speaker 5>transfer from one area to another and they're still amazing.

1:11:55.200 --> 1:11:59.720
<v Speaker 5>Whereas out of Mars Island and he's he's got no

1:11:59.760 --> 1:12:02.920
<v Speaker 5>idea how to track us another type of animal, but

1:12:03.120 --> 1:12:07.000
<v Speaker 5>he'll spot a lesser coudoo, you know, half a mile

1:12:07.120 --> 1:12:09.400
<v Speaker 5>up a valley just with his bare eyes and you

1:12:09.439 --> 1:12:11.200
<v Speaker 5>can hardly even see it with your binoculars.

1:12:11.200 --> 1:12:15.760
<v Speaker 2>It's yeah, those guys are ancestral hunter gatherers. So it's

1:12:15.760 --> 1:12:18.439
<v Speaker 2>sort of it's it's deep deep in them to be

1:12:18.479 --> 1:12:20.760
<v Speaker 2>able to sort of go anywhere and hunt anything. But

1:12:21.520 --> 1:12:24.120
<v Speaker 2>you know, one could be forgiven for thinking that, well,

1:12:24.160 --> 1:12:27.000
<v Speaker 2>what is what is it exactly that the professional hunter does?

1:12:27.400 --> 1:12:30.720
<v Speaker 2>And it's it's so funny, you know, I've sat with

1:12:30.800 --> 1:12:33.320
<v Speaker 2>trackers for hours and hours and hours and just talked about,

1:12:33.840 --> 1:12:36.519
<v Speaker 2>you know, different things related to hunting and their perception

1:12:36.600 --> 1:12:39.040
<v Speaker 2>of hunting and how it varies from mine and so

1:12:39.080 --> 1:12:41.960
<v Speaker 2>on and so forth, and like the One bridge that

1:12:42.040 --> 1:12:45.000
<v Speaker 2>I've never been able One gap I've never been able

1:12:45.000 --> 1:12:50.200
<v Speaker 2>to bridge is like them seeing an animal as a

1:12:50.280 --> 1:12:53.760
<v Speaker 2>source of meat and understanding like why we want to

1:12:53.840 --> 1:12:57.040
<v Speaker 2>go for an old ball, Like when we follow something

1:12:57.080 --> 1:13:00.959
<v Speaker 2>for eight ten hours in the hot sun and through thickets,

1:13:00.960 --> 1:13:04.040
<v Speaker 2>you're crawling through like these buffalo holes in the thickets

1:13:04.479 --> 1:13:06.360
<v Speaker 2>and we get we get up on them, they point

1:13:06.400 --> 1:13:08.679
<v Speaker 2>them out to me. We close the distance, I put

1:13:08.680 --> 1:13:10.639
<v Speaker 2>my bino's on it, and I'm like, ah no, they're young.

1:13:10.680 --> 1:13:13.320
<v Speaker 2>We got to back out of here. Like the muttering

1:13:13.439 --> 1:13:17.240
<v Speaker 2>and like tongue clicking and like it just looks pretty

1:13:17.240 --> 1:13:19.600
<v Speaker 2>good to like guys, come on. I mean they're just like,

1:13:19.640 --> 1:13:21.200
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I know, they're just like what is wrong

1:13:21.240 --> 1:13:23.439
<v Speaker 2>with these people? You know, like what is this guy's deal?

1:13:23.760 --> 1:13:26.120
<v Speaker 2>Can't believe it? Like we worked so damn hard and

1:13:26.160 --> 1:13:29.680
<v Speaker 2>he's walking away. I mean, but yeah, it's just huh.

1:13:29.720 --> 1:13:34.160
<v Speaker 2>It's like it's that they'll never know, they'll never be

1:13:34.200 --> 1:13:35.760
<v Speaker 2>able to reconcile, they'll never be able to come to

1:13:35.840 --> 1:13:38.479
<v Speaker 2>terms with that, and so you know, it's it's funny.

1:13:38.479 --> 1:13:42.040
<v Speaker 2>There's always this kind of tension around that. But yeah,

1:13:42.080 --> 1:13:46.280
<v Speaker 2>a great a great Safari team of a professional hunter

1:13:46.320 --> 1:13:49.120
<v Speaker 2>and trackers that are that are working together and in

1:13:49.280 --> 1:13:51.080
<v Speaker 2>unison is it's a beautiful.

1:13:50.680 --> 1:13:52.960
<v Speaker 4>Thing when you go straight off. How many trackers are

1:13:52.960 --> 1:13:53.200
<v Speaker 4>with you?

1:13:53.920 --> 1:13:59.679
<v Speaker 2>Two with usually two in reserve, so it'll be you'll

1:13:59.680 --> 1:14:02.400
<v Speaker 2>have a seen your tracking team that'll usually take the

1:14:02.520 --> 1:14:07.040
<v Speaker 2>lead if things go long. I mean it is exhausting work, right,

1:14:07.120 --> 1:14:11.600
<v Speaker 2>It gets very very tedious if things go long, or

1:14:11.600 --> 1:14:14.920
<v Speaker 2>there's sort of a scenario where, for example, like we

1:14:14.960 --> 1:14:18.000
<v Speaker 2>were talking about before an animal joins another herd, or

1:14:18.800 --> 1:14:21.599
<v Speaker 2>an animal's gone through an area and another herd's crossed

1:14:21.600 --> 1:14:24.240
<v Speaker 2>over and it's kind of confusing. They'll sort of fan

1:14:24.360 --> 1:14:26.639
<v Speaker 2>out and everyone will sort of work together to kind

1:14:26.640 --> 1:14:29.840
<v Speaker 2>of sort out what's happening. And then sometimes the kind

1:14:29.840 --> 1:14:32.080
<v Speaker 2>of the reserve guys will step up if the tracking

1:14:32.160 --> 1:14:35.280
<v Speaker 2>job's getting long, but it'll be two with two in reserve.

1:14:45.280 --> 1:14:51.760
<v Speaker 4>What's the impact of like how is poaching felt? Meaning

1:14:51.800 --> 1:14:52.920
<v Speaker 4>like you could be an American and.

1:14:52.880 --> 1:14:56.519
<v Speaker 2>You're aware of poaching here, right, but you don't hear

1:14:56.560 --> 1:14:59.360
<v Speaker 2>about poaching here nearly as much as you hear about

1:14:59.400 --> 1:15:00.160
<v Speaker 2>poaching and how for.

1:15:01.840 --> 1:15:05.080
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, and like anti poaching squads and the black market

1:15:05.120 --> 1:15:09.320
<v Speaker 4>around poaching and documentaries about poaching in Africa, is it?

1:15:10.240 --> 1:15:10.639
<v Speaker 2>I guess.

1:15:10.720 --> 1:15:13.599
<v Speaker 5>I guess probably the biggest difference is like a poacher

1:15:13.640 --> 1:15:18.360
<v Speaker 5>in America is more or less a hunter who just

1:15:18.400 --> 1:15:24.000
<v Speaker 5>hasn't got the right license, whereas in Tanzania, you know,

1:15:24.520 --> 1:15:28.559
<v Speaker 5>there's commercial poaches who are out there, you know, trying

1:15:28.600 --> 1:15:32.080
<v Speaker 5>to hunt elephants, you know, for the ivory, not not

1:15:32.120 --> 1:15:35.840
<v Speaker 5>even necessarily for meat or for you know, the art

1:15:35.880 --> 1:15:39.680
<v Speaker 5>of hunting that they're doing it to make a living and.

1:15:39.640 --> 1:15:42.360
<v Speaker 4>They're part of like but but it's like a criminal syndicate.

1:15:42.479 --> 1:15:47.240
<v Speaker 2>It is. It is those three tiers that that Roger mentioned.

1:15:47.280 --> 1:15:50.639
<v Speaker 2>You know, there's the ivory poaches that they're heavily armed

1:15:50.800 --> 1:15:53.760
<v Speaker 2>and they're they're very aggressive and really there's not a

1:15:53.760 --> 1:15:58.200
<v Speaker 2>lot that we as Safari operators can do about them.

1:15:58.479 --> 1:16:01.120
<v Speaker 2>That and and I think that something the Tanzanian government's

1:16:01.200 --> 1:16:04.639
<v Speaker 2>very cognizant of, and you know they've they've come down

1:16:04.680 --> 1:16:07.360
<v Speaker 2>a lot harder on that. Tanzani is in an unfortunate

1:16:07.360 --> 1:16:09.519
<v Speaker 2>position where it has you know, obviously a lot of

1:16:09.560 --> 1:16:14.880
<v Speaker 2>coastline and seaports, which opens up smuggling potentials to Asia

1:16:15.439 --> 1:16:19.360
<v Speaker 2>basically for ivory that sort of landlocked African countries don't have,

1:16:19.520 --> 1:16:22.080
<v Speaker 2>so we've seen a lot of pressure on our elephants,

1:16:23.240 --> 1:16:27.439
<v Speaker 2>particularly in the early sort of twenty tens. That was

1:16:27.680 --> 1:16:29.320
<v Speaker 2>you know, it was a big problem and it was

1:16:29.520 --> 1:16:33.559
<v Speaker 2>keenly felt across almost all of the hunting areas in

1:16:33.560 --> 1:16:38.160
<v Speaker 2>the country that you know, the presence of those commercial

1:16:38.200 --> 1:16:43.439
<v Speaker 2>ivory poaches heavily armed was there, and the government realized

1:16:43.479 --> 1:16:46.360
<v Speaker 2>it and you know, needed to essentially use the army

1:16:46.479 --> 1:16:49.439
<v Speaker 2>and there are other sort of law enforcement resources to

1:16:49.479 --> 1:16:53.280
<v Speaker 2>deal with that because it's beyond our scope. Commercial meat

1:16:53.280 --> 1:16:56.800
<v Speaker 2>poaching is another problem. Often those guys will be armed too,

1:16:57.080 --> 1:16:59.360
<v Speaker 2>but a lot of times it'll be snares and traps,

1:17:00.080 --> 1:17:02.240
<v Speaker 2>snares and gin trap type things that are set up

1:17:02.280 --> 1:17:04.240
<v Speaker 2>and they'll go and check them and can kind of

1:17:04.320 --> 1:17:07.479
<v Speaker 2>trap like a gin trap is kind of the term

1:17:07.520 --> 1:17:09.000
<v Speaker 2>we use for it. I'm trying to It's like a

1:17:09.080 --> 1:17:12.439
<v Speaker 2>leg hold, but giant with a car spring as the

1:17:13.200 --> 1:17:15.640
<v Speaker 2>like a bear trap. Yeah, it's like a yeah, what

1:17:15.840 --> 1:17:17.559
<v Speaker 2>what you'd call here a leg hold, you know, with

1:17:17.600 --> 1:17:20.880
<v Speaker 2>the with like a car spring as the kind of

1:17:20.320 --> 1:17:24.599
<v Speaker 2>the spring component. So it's it's powerful. It can grab

1:17:24.600 --> 1:17:27.400
<v Speaker 2>a buffalo, it can grab whatever. Oh yeah, yeah, it

1:17:27.400 --> 1:17:29.880
<v Speaker 2>can grab a giraffe. And then you know there's other

1:17:30.040 --> 1:17:32.640
<v Speaker 2>sort of nasty methods those guys will employ. One of

1:17:32.640 --> 1:17:35.439
<v Speaker 2>them is driving around at night on motorcycles with a

1:17:35.479 --> 1:17:39.919
<v Speaker 2>spotlight and and kind of spotlighting stuff like like giraffes,

1:17:39.920 --> 1:17:43.040
<v Speaker 2>for example, and then basically chasing them on the motorbike

1:17:43.120 --> 1:17:48.040
<v Speaker 2>and like hamstringing them with a machete. Kidding no, unfortunately.

1:17:48.040 --> 1:17:50.040
<v Speaker 2>And that's for the bush meat trade, that's the wild

1:17:50.080 --> 1:17:54.519
<v Speaker 2>that's commercial meat trade, so that meat goes consumed where

1:17:54.800 --> 1:17:58.000
<v Speaker 2>consumed in a lot of the local restaurants, villages, I

1:17:58.000 --> 1:18:00.479
<v Speaker 2>mean wherever. It's sort of an underground it's a it's

1:18:00.800 --> 1:18:03.200
<v Speaker 2>you know, you can now, I believe in Tanzania get

1:18:03.200 --> 1:18:06.680
<v Speaker 2>a permit to sell legally acquired game meat. But in

1:18:07.600 --> 1:18:10.479
<v Speaker 2>the past, when I first got started in the industry,

1:18:10.560 --> 1:18:14.080
<v Speaker 2>similar to the US, you couldn't sell meat you know,

1:18:14.160 --> 1:18:17.600
<v Speaker 2>derived from the hunting industry. It didn't have commercial value.

1:18:18.080 --> 1:18:21.160
<v Speaker 2>So you know, yeah, there's sort of this underground trade

1:18:21.160 --> 1:18:24.400
<v Speaker 2>of meat. And then the third tier, like Roger says,

1:18:24.439 --> 1:18:26.680
<v Speaker 2>which is the guys that you know, that sort of

1:18:26.760 --> 1:18:30.080
<v Speaker 2>ladder category. Are that that ladder category we can deal with,

1:18:30.200 --> 1:18:33.000
<v Speaker 2>you know, we can do something about that that sort

1:18:33.040 --> 1:18:36.280
<v Speaker 2>of you know, commercial meat poacher. Our anti poaching teams

1:18:36.280 --> 1:18:39.439
<v Speaker 2>are equipped to handle that. And then there's the kind

1:18:39.479 --> 1:18:42.400
<v Speaker 2>of lone guy who, yeah, he's a subsistence farmer, maybe

1:18:42.479 --> 1:18:44.880
<v Speaker 2>an elephant came in and wiped out his crop, his

1:18:44.960 --> 1:18:47.840
<v Speaker 2>family's hungry, you know, grabbed the old muzzle loader that

1:18:47.880 --> 1:18:49.360
<v Speaker 2>he's got stashed under the bridge.

1:18:49.760 --> 1:18:51.880
<v Speaker 5>Homemade. I mean a lot of these guns that we're

1:18:51.920 --> 1:18:52.799
<v Speaker 5>confiscated they've.

1:18:53.040 --> 1:18:55.120
<v Speaker 2>Made out of a bit of pipe shooting, chunks of

1:18:55.200 --> 1:18:59.200
<v Speaker 2>rebar that have been swed, yeah, or I've seen I've

1:18:59.200 --> 1:19:04.439
<v Speaker 2>seen double A back loaded into them as the slug.

1:19:04.960 --> 1:19:07.880
<v Speaker 2>And so those guys, you know, grab the old muzzle loader,

1:19:08.040 --> 1:19:09.960
<v Speaker 2>grab the old bow and arrow and head out into

1:19:09.960 --> 1:19:12.200
<v Speaker 2>the game reserve and try and try and get something

1:19:12.200 --> 1:19:14.600
<v Speaker 2>for the family. And those are the guys when we

1:19:14.720 --> 1:19:16.920
<v Speaker 2>catch them, that you know, we have a lot of

1:19:16.960 --> 1:19:18.720
<v Speaker 2>sympathy for and if we can find a way to

1:19:18.800 --> 1:19:22.920
<v Speaker 2>incorporate them into our operation, particularly if they're good, and

1:19:22.960 --> 1:19:25.000
<v Speaker 2>you'll know they're good based on when you get them

1:19:25.040 --> 1:19:26.680
<v Speaker 2>to lead you back to their camp and you see

1:19:26.720 --> 1:19:32.519
<v Speaker 2>how much meat they've got, and if they're dialed, it's like,

1:19:33.280 --> 1:19:35.080
<v Speaker 2>all right, let's see what we can see what we

1:19:35.120 --> 1:19:35.599
<v Speaker 2>can do here.

1:19:37.120 --> 1:19:40.679
<v Speaker 6>I do want it. We have enough law enforcement friends

1:19:40.680 --> 1:19:44.080
<v Speaker 6>where I do have to say that in the US,

1:19:44.479 --> 1:19:48.920
<v Speaker 6>poaching is prolific and you have a broad spectrum of

1:19:49.000 --> 1:19:53.200
<v Speaker 6>people who participate, and ranging from like the honest mistake

1:19:53.320 --> 1:19:58.240
<v Speaker 6>crowd to the people who fit the psychological profile of

1:19:58.320 --> 1:20:02.400
<v Speaker 6>like a serial killer and they're they're they're poaching so

1:20:02.640 --> 1:20:07.680
<v Speaker 6>consistently to like scratch that exact same itch, and kind

1:20:07.720 --> 1:20:11.559
<v Speaker 6>of everything in between two like very well organized groups

1:20:11.560 --> 1:20:15.880
<v Speaker 6>of people who operate for years and years taking excessive

1:20:15.920 --> 1:20:20.599
<v Speaker 6>amounts of game for the trophy on the.

1:20:20.560 --> 1:20:23.519
<v Speaker 2>Wall type of Yeah, it's a good way of putting it.

1:20:24.080 --> 1:20:27.880
<v Speaker 4>Like, you have some real organized poaching stuff, but it's

1:20:27.880 --> 1:20:30.839
<v Speaker 4>not feeding a commercial market as much as it's feeding

1:20:31.120 --> 1:20:33.920
<v Speaker 4>and that ego and social.

1:20:34.160 --> 1:20:38.960
<v Speaker 6>Scale and the commercial stuff that we read about would be,

1:20:41.320 --> 1:20:45.639
<v Speaker 6>you know, is very like mom and pop the random

1:20:45.840 --> 1:20:48.720
<v Speaker 6>butcher shop that is like, yeah, if you bring me

1:20:48.760 --> 1:20:51.360
<v Speaker 6>a bunch of white tailed deer, I'll turn it into.

1:20:54.040 --> 1:20:58.000
<v Speaker 2>And we don't mean to downplay the you know, poaching

1:20:58.040 --> 1:20:59.920
<v Speaker 2>as a as an issue in North America. I think,

1:21:00.080 --> 1:21:02.920
<v Speaker 2>as you say, it's just got very it's rooted in

1:21:03.160 --> 1:21:08.559
<v Speaker 2>very different. It's driven very differently. I'm sure even the

1:21:08.640 --> 1:21:12.439
<v Speaker 2>guy that's out commercial elephant poaching in Tanzania, if you

1:21:12.479 --> 1:21:15.320
<v Speaker 2>could offer him a steady job that didn't involve that,

1:21:15.400 --> 1:21:18.040
<v Speaker 2>he'd be more than happy to quit. You know, it's

1:21:18.120 --> 1:21:20.280
<v Speaker 2>not it's not coming from ego.

1:21:20.080 --> 1:21:20.599
<v Speaker 5>It's all.

1:21:21.040 --> 1:21:24.840
<v Speaker 2>It's all from poverty and unfortunately a demand for those

1:21:25.080 --> 1:21:27.519
<v Speaker 2>you know, those products like an ivory rhino horn on

1:21:27.560 --> 1:21:30.040
<v Speaker 2>the you know, and the guy lion bones and things

1:21:30.080 --> 1:21:30.679
<v Speaker 2>like that too.

1:21:31.040 --> 1:21:33.120
<v Speaker 5>And the guys out in the field are making a

1:21:33.200 --> 1:21:37.160
<v Speaker 5>fraction of the big kingpins that are selling the ivory

1:21:37.200 --> 1:21:40.400
<v Speaker 5>on I mean, they'll they'll make a thousand dollars maybe

1:21:40.479 --> 1:21:45.760
<v Speaker 5>on a pair of ivory horns ivory tusks, and the

1:21:45.800 --> 1:21:49.599
<v Speaker 5>next guy will sell them for anything from twenty to

1:21:49.640 --> 1:21:50.719
<v Speaker 5>fifty thousand dollars.

1:21:50.720 --> 1:21:55.160
<v Speaker 4>You know, let me uh, you might already know this,

1:21:55.240 --> 1:21:59.200
<v Speaker 4>but just as a way to compare the two.

1:21:59.400 --> 1:22:00.920
<v Speaker 2>So in the you have.

1:22:03.000 --> 1:22:10.439
<v Speaker 4>Speaking generally generally, the state's own wildlife. Okay, the states

1:22:10.479 --> 1:22:13.120
<v Speaker 4>have a state fishing game aide. The state owns a wildlife,

1:22:13.120 --> 1:22:17.519
<v Speaker 4>whether the wildlife is on private land, state land, federal land.

1:22:17.600 --> 1:22:20.840
<v Speaker 4>The state has jurisdiction over the wildlife. The state will

1:22:20.840 --> 1:22:25.520
<v Speaker 4>have a state agency that employs biologists and law enforcement individuals.

1:22:25.600 --> 1:22:29.760
<v Speaker 4>That state agency, those biologists will make an assessment of

1:22:29.960 --> 1:22:36.679
<v Speaker 4>population trends, models of how many animals are out there.

1:22:37.520 --> 1:22:43.160
<v Speaker 4>They'll ascertain what a harvestable surplus would look like. They

1:22:43.200 --> 1:22:47.840
<v Speaker 4>then take that harvestable surplus and they try to allocate

1:22:48.600 --> 1:22:50.480
<v Speaker 4>it in a democratic fashion.

1:22:51.760 --> 1:22:52.600
<v Speaker 2>To the population.

1:22:53.600 --> 1:22:55.760
<v Speaker 4>So these aren't real numbers, but like we have a

1:22:55.880 --> 1:22:59.840
<v Speaker 4>thousand deer, we can safely kill two hundred a year.

1:23:00.960 --> 1:23:04.680
<v Speaker 4>Those two hundred will now be democratically allocated to the

1:23:04.680 --> 1:23:07.920
<v Speaker 4>best of our ability, to those people who would like

1:23:07.960 --> 1:23:12.719
<v Speaker 4>to go get one, and then we will govern how, when,

1:23:13.200 --> 1:23:16.639
<v Speaker 4>why not why? We will govern how and when they

1:23:16.680 --> 1:23:20.320
<v Speaker 4>go get the surplus we've identified.

1:23:20.479 --> 1:23:24.720
<v Speaker 6>And Korean It's important to note that the bulk of

1:23:24.840 --> 1:23:31.960
<v Speaker 6>these state agency funding comes from participation, license and tag sales.

1:23:32.000 --> 1:23:33.599
<v Speaker 2>Very very important detail.

1:23:34.200 --> 1:23:38.360
<v Speaker 4>It's quite circular because then them selling them selling the

1:23:38.400 --> 1:23:43.799
<v Speaker 4>two hundred deer, them selling access to the two hundred

1:23:43.800 --> 1:23:47.520
<v Speaker 4>deer through buying licenses is how they fund.

1:23:48.280 --> 1:23:51.360
<v Speaker 5>The research to set the quasis. Yeah, it's it's very

1:23:51.360 --> 1:23:54.320
<v Speaker 5>similar in Africa that it is. Different countries are very

1:23:54.360 --> 1:23:59.839
<v Speaker 5>different in it In Tanzania, for example, the land, the wildlife,

1:23:59.840 --> 1:24:03.960
<v Speaker 5>everything is owned by the government. The quotas are set

1:24:04.560 --> 1:24:07.439
<v Speaker 5>by the government. We have a government official who comes

1:24:07.439 --> 1:24:09.639
<v Speaker 5>out hunting with us to make sure we are sticking

1:24:09.640 --> 1:24:10.680
<v Speaker 5>to all the regulations.

1:24:12.120 --> 1:24:14.320
<v Speaker 2>Whereas all the time, all the time.

1:24:14.200 --> 1:24:18.080
<v Speaker 5>Every every hunting party has a game scout government employee.

1:24:18.160 --> 1:24:21.960
<v Speaker 4>Are you serious, commercial fishing vessels.

1:24:21.680 --> 1:24:25.679
<v Speaker 2>Yeah here, yeah, yeah, really yeah, at all times and change.

1:24:25.960 --> 1:24:28.880
<v Speaker 2>Do you imagine if every hunting party in the US. Yeah,

1:24:31.320 --> 1:24:38.280
<v Speaker 2>there is really it's always present.

1:24:38.960 --> 1:24:42.160
<v Speaker 5>Regulated, yeah, and you know they're they're there to make

1:24:42.160 --> 1:24:44.200
<v Speaker 5>sure we abide by all the regulations.

1:24:44.240 --> 1:24:47.800
<v Speaker 10>What a huge commitment from the agency or whatever the

1:24:47.880 --> 1:24:48.559
<v Speaker 10>appropriate term.

1:24:48.800 --> 1:24:50.680
<v Speaker 2>Well, for sure, and they're there and they're they're a

1:24:50.720 --> 1:24:53.320
<v Speaker 2>great help to you know, when we run into those poachers,

1:24:54.160 --> 1:24:56.920
<v Speaker 2>we don't have to do a citizen's arrest, you know,

1:24:57.160 --> 1:25:02.240
<v Speaker 2>or they can are authority. They're they're an agent of

1:25:02.840 --> 1:25:05.479
<v Speaker 2>the Department of Natural Resources and Tourism.

1:25:05.560 --> 1:25:07.280
<v Speaker 5>It's the same way with our anti poaching.

1:25:07.320 --> 1:25:08.400
<v Speaker 4>Are they generally good hunters?

1:25:08.439 --> 1:25:09.840
<v Speaker 2>Do some of them are? Yeah?

1:25:09.840 --> 1:25:12.360
<v Speaker 5>A lot of them get passionate about it and you know,

1:25:12.479 --> 1:25:14.640
<v Speaker 5>enjoy being out in the wilderness light.

1:25:14.920 --> 1:25:16.559
<v Speaker 6>But you also kind of had a look that said,

1:25:16.600 --> 1:25:20.200
<v Speaker 6>some of them may be bureaucratically placed there, and are

1:25:20.720 --> 1:25:21.760
<v Speaker 6>they stick out a little bit?

1:25:22.000 --> 1:25:25.280
<v Speaker 5>Some some start in the towns and then might get

1:25:25.360 --> 1:25:29.960
<v Speaker 5>placed out in the field against their wishes. Same and

1:25:30.160 --> 1:25:32.280
<v Speaker 5>you know, in any.

1:25:31.479 --> 1:25:33.880
<v Speaker 4>But in your camp. To make sure that you guys

1:25:33.880 --> 1:25:37.240
<v Speaker 4>aren't doing like what would be the most common bad

1:25:37.360 --> 1:25:38.439
<v Speaker 4>thing that would happen.

1:25:39.640 --> 1:25:42.760
<v Speaker 5>Well, I mean we don't. We don't break any of

1:25:42.760 --> 1:25:45.040
<v Speaker 5>these really, but there are laws like you're not allowed

1:25:45.040 --> 1:25:48.360
<v Speaker 5>to hunt from a vehicle. You have to be twenty

1:25:48.360 --> 1:25:51.160
<v Speaker 5>five meters or fifty meters away from a vehicle anytime.

1:25:51.160 --> 1:25:51.439
<v Speaker 5>You can't.

1:25:51.560 --> 1:25:53.920
<v Speaker 2>I can't add over water holes, yeah, for example.

1:25:54.040 --> 1:25:56.719
<v Speaker 4>Also that's I guess that's what I was curious about there.

1:25:56.760 --> 1:25:58.479
<v Speaker 5>Is we're not allowed to hunt at night.

1:25:58.640 --> 1:26:01.479
<v Speaker 4>You know, there is interested in methodology as they are,

1:26:01.600 --> 1:26:03.280
<v Speaker 4>and that you're not killing too much of whatever.

1:26:03.439 --> 1:26:05.760
<v Speaker 2>I would say a combination of both. Yeah, they're they're

1:26:05.840 --> 1:26:11.360
<v Speaker 2>making sure that essentially the act of government that you know,

1:26:11.400 --> 1:26:13.960
<v Speaker 2>that governs what we do. They're there to make sure

1:26:14.000 --> 1:26:16.519
<v Speaker 2>that we adhere to that. But as much of that

1:26:17.680 --> 1:26:21.519
<v Speaker 2>as they do, they're also there to support us in

1:26:21.560 --> 1:26:25.599
<v Speaker 2>our efforts, you know, to combat poaching. Yeah, they're there

1:26:25.640 --> 1:26:30.000
<v Speaker 2>to be. Yeah, they're essentially the law enforcement arm of

1:26:30.040 --> 1:26:33.400
<v Speaker 2>the Department of Natural Resources and Tourism that they are

1:26:33.439 --> 1:26:35.759
<v Speaker 2>able to you know, if we run into a poacher,

1:26:35.880 --> 1:26:37.720
<v Speaker 2>they're going to make the arrest. They're going to make

1:26:37.760 --> 1:26:40.960
<v Speaker 2>sure that everything's properly documented and written up and so

1:26:41.000 --> 1:26:43.959
<v Speaker 2>on and so forth, and take that person into custody,

1:26:44.200 --> 1:26:46.080
<v Speaker 2>you know, which is something that we don't have the

1:26:46.120 --> 1:26:47.000
<v Speaker 2>authority to do.

1:26:47.840 --> 1:26:50.960
<v Speaker 5>So it's very much a combined effort. Our antipaching teams

1:26:50.960 --> 1:26:54.360
<v Speaker 5>are half our employees of Robin Hurtsparaz and half from

1:26:54.400 --> 1:26:57.559
<v Speaker 5>the townsan Near Wildlife Department, and they all go out

1:26:57.600 --> 1:27:00.000
<v Speaker 5>on patrol together and help each other.

1:27:00.040 --> 1:27:01.920
<v Speaker 2>And you guys are operating out of the same camp.

1:27:02.280 --> 1:27:05.080
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, they they'll they'll have the hunting.

1:27:04.720 --> 1:27:07.120
<v Speaker 4>And hunting poachers all kind of at the same time.

1:27:07.400 --> 1:27:10.160
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, the two go together every time we're out in

1:27:10.200 --> 1:27:12.400
<v Speaker 5>the field where we're on patrol. You know, we have

1:27:12.479 --> 1:27:15.840
<v Speaker 5>our actual anti poaching units as well, but but when

1:27:15.840 --> 1:27:19.240
<v Speaker 5>we're in the field, we're naturally doing anti poaching.

1:27:20.479 --> 1:27:24.799
<v Speaker 6>So all of Tanzania, you are not allowed to hunt

1:27:25.120 --> 1:27:25.880
<v Speaker 6>the water horse.

1:27:26.320 --> 1:27:29.280
<v Speaker 2>No one can apart.

1:27:29.080 --> 1:27:33.479
<v Speaker 5>From a few animals crocodile, wait a tunga water. But

1:27:33.680 --> 1:27:37.240
<v Speaker 5>there's there's a few very specific animals that so other

1:27:37.320 --> 1:27:41.439
<v Speaker 5>than aquatic semi aquatic species that you're just not I mean, like,

1:27:41.720 --> 1:27:44.040
<v Speaker 5>you know, crocodiles in the water all the time.

1:27:44.080 --> 1:27:46.599
<v Speaker 2>You know, there's an exception for that. But we can't

1:27:46.600 --> 1:27:48.479
<v Speaker 2>sit over water and wait for a buffalo to come

1:27:48.520 --> 1:27:48.880
<v Speaker 2>and drink.

1:27:49.200 --> 1:27:52.639
<v Speaker 4>It seems so nitpicky for Africa someone has never been

1:27:52.680 --> 1:27:54.680
<v Speaker 4>there and has no idea what I'm talking about.

1:27:54.680 --> 1:27:58.479
<v Speaker 5>It was a little more, but it makes it a challenge,

1:27:58.479 --> 1:28:00.280
<v Speaker 5>which to me, half of what hunting about.

1:28:00.439 --> 1:28:05.160
<v Speaker 2>And these rules weren't weren't set twenty years ago, thirty

1:28:05.240 --> 1:28:08.559
<v Speaker 2>years ago. These rules have been around, you know, since

1:28:08.600 --> 1:28:13.800
<v Speaker 2>the early days. I would say probably Roosevelt Safari era.

1:28:14.040 --> 1:28:16.720
<v Speaker 2>It was probably a little looser, but for sure there

1:28:16.760 --> 1:28:18.840
<v Speaker 2>would have been a concept of, oh, you know, we

1:28:18.920 --> 1:28:21.400
<v Speaker 2>don't shoot stuff over water. You know, we don't shoot

1:28:21.400 --> 1:28:24.080
<v Speaker 2>big we don't shoot big tuskers, big elephants over water.

1:28:24.120 --> 1:28:26.400
<v Speaker 2>We track them from the water hole, and that that

1:28:26.600 --> 1:28:30.800
<v Speaker 2>ethic would have been. These things are basically ethics that

1:28:30.840 --> 1:28:35.960
<v Speaker 2>the East African Professional Hunters Association sort of held, you know,

1:28:36.160 --> 1:28:39.719
<v Speaker 2>held their members to account with these sort of ethical

1:28:39.720 --> 1:28:43.639
<v Speaker 2>guidelines that then got sort of enshrined into law and

1:28:43.680 --> 1:28:48.000
<v Speaker 2>that we now are absolutely bound to both ethically and legally.

1:28:48.120 --> 1:28:52.400
<v Speaker 10>Would you say that they're complex or I mean, like

1:28:52.880 --> 1:28:54.760
<v Speaker 10>how hard would it be for someone to step in

1:28:54.840 --> 1:28:57.679
<v Speaker 10>and understand the regulatory regime.

1:28:57.880 --> 1:29:00.719
<v Speaker 5>That's why we do like to become a professional hunter,

1:29:01.040 --> 1:29:03.559
<v Speaker 5>you do a two year apprenticeship and then you have

1:29:03.600 --> 1:29:06.080
<v Speaker 5>to sit an exam on the law. I mean, because

1:29:06.080 --> 1:29:10.760
<v Speaker 5>every species there's there's different rules. Like to hunter a

1:29:10.840 --> 1:29:12.559
<v Speaker 5>male leopard, first of all, it's got to be male,

1:29:12.680 --> 1:29:15.840
<v Speaker 5>but it's got to be over a certain length or

1:29:16.080 --> 1:29:19.040
<v Speaker 5>you know, it can be confiscated. And same with a

1:29:19.120 --> 1:29:23.080
<v Speaker 5>lion has to be aged in Tanzanier and if it's

1:29:23.360 --> 1:29:25.800
<v Speaker 5>under seven there's a fine and it can be confiscated

1:29:25.800 --> 1:29:27.080
<v Speaker 5>if it's under another age.

1:29:27.160 --> 1:29:29.519
<v Speaker 4>So so when people like to point out that Cecil

1:29:29.600 --> 1:29:32.679
<v Speaker 4>the lion was thirteen, he couldn't have been under seven

1:29:33.960 --> 1:29:34.720
<v Speaker 4>in Tanzaniera.

1:29:35.479 --> 1:29:37.920
<v Speaker 5>You have to hunt a seven year old, a seven

1:29:38.000 --> 1:29:41.400
<v Speaker 5>year old or older. And I mean the cecil thing

1:29:41.520 --> 1:29:46.160
<v Speaker 5>is is something that sort of hits a bone.

1:29:47.000 --> 1:29:50.519
<v Speaker 2>Finally enough, we've been laboring. It's been an albatross around

1:29:50.520 --> 1:29:53.200
<v Speaker 2>our neck for like, however many years it's been now

1:29:53.640 --> 1:29:56.160
<v Speaker 2>and I mean it had a real impact for us.

1:29:56.400 --> 1:30:01.479
<v Speaker 2>It Okay, go on, I mean Roger can go into

1:30:01.520 --> 1:30:04.559
<v Speaker 2>it a little more. But we've both seen and know

1:30:04.680 --> 1:30:08.920
<v Speaker 2>of anecdotally and seen with our own eyes areas that

1:30:09.160 --> 1:30:14.920
<v Speaker 2>were perhaps not the most productive area from the standpoint

1:30:14.920 --> 1:30:18.200
<v Speaker 2>of there wasn't a big ticket item from a planes

1:30:18.240 --> 1:30:21.080
<v Speaker 2>game standpoint, didn't have a good population of sable or

1:30:21.160 --> 1:30:24.599
<v Speaker 2>ronandelope for not a big variety, you know, it had

1:30:24.680 --> 1:30:29.080
<v Speaker 2>like buffalo and lions, and the lions because of the

1:30:29.800 --> 1:30:33.120
<v Speaker 2>population of them, there would be enough of a big

1:30:33.160 --> 1:30:36.160
<v Speaker 2>ticket item that you could generate if you could sell

1:30:36.160 --> 1:30:38.479
<v Speaker 2>a couple of lion hunts a year, one maybe two,

1:30:38.880 --> 1:30:41.639
<v Speaker 2>you know, again abiding by those rules of harvesting those

1:30:41.640 --> 1:30:45.479
<v Speaker 2>old lions, you would be able to sustain and justify it,

1:30:45.800 --> 1:30:49.120
<v Speaker 2>you know, having that area as part of your company's

1:30:49.280 --> 1:30:52.759
<v Speaker 2>concessions and doing anti poaching so on and so forth.

1:30:53.240 --> 1:30:57.479
<v Speaker 2>We can literally point to areas where with cecil that

1:30:57.600 --> 1:31:00.679
<v Speaker 2>rug was pulled out from under us. Clients weren't booking

1:31:00.720 --> 1:31:04.400
<v Speaker 2>those lion hunts. The outfitter can't make money from that

1:31:04.479 --> 1:31:07.880
<v Speaker 2>area anymore, gave it back to the government. Essentially, I

1:31:07.920 --> 1:31:08.519
<v Speaker 2>mean we left the.

1:31:08.439 --> 1:31:11.960
<v Speaker 5>Paper records are there. There was before cecil, there was

1:31:11.960 --> 1:31:18.000
<v Speaker 5>one hundred and sixty hunting concessions in Tanzania, and within

1:31:18.680 --> 1:31:21.840
<v Speaker 5>three or four years of that, the government basically I

1:31:21.920 --> 1:31:25.519
<v Speaker 5>mean that the hunting outfitters had returned a lot of

1:31:25.560 --> 1:31:28.160
<v Speaker 5>these least because they didn't have the business for them,

1:31:28.439 --> 1:31:31.760
<v Speaker 5>and it dropped to one hundred and twenty and those

1:31:31.840 --> 1:31:35.960
<v Speaker 5>forty areas, the sort of fringe areas, they then had

1:31:36.040 --> 1:31:38.800
<v Speaker 5>no use. And I watched it with my own eyes

1:31:38.840 --> 1:31:44.080
<v Speaker 5>some of our neighboring concessions where everything went wasn't It

1:31:44.120 --> 1:31:47.080
<v Speaker 5>had a negative impact on everything, Like there wasn't a

1:31:47.120 --> 1:31:50.960
<v Speaker 5>tree left, because if no one was looking after that area,

1:31:51.439 --> 1:31:54.599
<v Speaker 5>the local villagers would use it for something. So first

1:31:54.600 --> 1:31:57.120
<v Speaker 5>of all, the loggers would move in cut all the trees.

1:31:57.240 --> 1:31:59.920
<v Speaker 5>Then the illegal grazing would come in and there's no

1:32:00.200 --> 1:32:03.599
<v Speaker 5>there to sort of stop it. And then after that

1:32:03.680 --> 1:32:06.439
<v Speaker 5>then the farmers would come in and you know, plant

1:32:06.479 --> 1:32:10.200
<v Speaker 5>their crops, and within literally a year to two years,

1:32:10.640 --> 1:32:15.080
<v Speaker 5>this pristine wilderness area was just farmland without breathing, living

1:32:15.760 --> 1:32:16.559
<v Speaker 5>wild creature.

1:32:16.760 --> 1:32:18.960
<v Speaker 4>So you believe I mean you're saying this, That's why

1:32:18.960 --> 1:32:21.920
<v Speaker 4>I clarify you the we call him Cecil.

1:32:22.200 --> 1:32:30.200
<v Speaker 11>Yeah, the Cecil Lion debarcle everyone had the right actually

1:32:30.280 --> 1:32:35.400
<v Speaker 11>led to land, actually led to abandonment of hunting lands

1:32:35.479 --> 1:32:36.479
<v Speaker 11>which were then developed.

1:32:36.520 --> 1:32:40.640
<v Speaker 5>I mean we're talking that's probably forty million acres of

1:32:40.760 --> 1:32:44.160
<v Speaker 5>wilderness that was lost because of the Cecil incident.

1:32:44.240 --> 1:32:45.799
<v Speaker 2>Really, I have no trouble.

1:32:45.840 --> 1:32:49.360
<v Speaker 5>It didn't even happen in Tanzania, but it's it's a.

1:32:49.360 --> 1:32:51.240
<v Speaker 2>Fact happening Zimbabwe.

1:32:51.720 --> 1:32:53.840
<v Speaker 4>There's a there's a high roller here in town. He's

1:32:53.920 --> 1:32:57.400
<v Speaker 4>kind of not he's operating here and he didn't grow

1:32:57.479 --> 1:33:00.360
<v Speaker 4>up unting. And I heard how he's going to Africa

1:33:00.400 --> 1:33:04.599
<v Speaker 4>go hunting, but his wife has forbade him shooting a lane.

1:33:04.800 --> 1:33:07.840
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, yeah, and that's that's what it did is a

1:33:07.920 --> 1:33:08.400
<v Speaker 5>lot of people.

1:33:08.600 --> 1:33:12.880
<v Speaker 2>She doesn't want their holiday home burned down. But it

1:33:12.920 --> 1:33:13.559
<v Speaker 2>made people.

1:33:13.840 --> 1:33:16.720
<v Speaker 5>It didn't just affect lion hunting. It affected hunting in

1:33:16.800 --> 1:33:20.560
<v Speaker 5>Africa full stop. Your avid hunters would still come, but

1:33:20.640 --> 1:33:24.639
<v Speaker 5>a lot of the middle ground for a few years. Well,

1:33:25.360 --> 1:33:27.120
<v Speaker 5>I work with will feel about this.

1:33:27.640 --> 1:33:31.360
<v Speaker 2>We have Tanzania has forty percent of Africa's wild lions

1:33:32.000 --> 1:33:36.519
<v Speaker 2>in Tanzania within the borders of forty percent of Africa's

1:33:36.520 --> 1:33:41.240
<v Speaker 2>wild lions. So we were hit hardest because that for

1:33:41.360 --> 1:33:43.679
<v Speaker 2>a lot of these areas, that was our big ticket item,

1:33:43.680 --> 1:33:45.759
<v Speaker 2>you know, that was our draw card. We could offer

1:33:46.200 --> 1:33:51.599
<v Speaker 2>a really well done lion hunt that we could back

1:33:51.720 --> 1:33:55.799
<v Speaker 2>up with with actual conservation data. I mean, Oxford University

1:33:55.880 --> 1:33:59.760
<v Speaker 2>did a study that basically showed in an ecosystem in

1:34:00.000 --> 1:34:04.320
<v Speaker 2>central Tanzania that there's no discernible difference between the populations

1:34:04.320 --> 1:34:06.880
<v Speaker 2>of lions and leopards, So those sort of top predators

1:34:07.200 --> 1:34:11.240
<v Speaker 2>and in the photographic hunting areas versus the hunting areas

1:34:11.280 --> 1:34:13.160
<v Speaker 2>that have a sustainable off take.

1:34:13.800 --> 1:34:17.519
<v Speaker 5>You we actually funded our own population studies of both

1:34:17.600 --> 1:34:21.160
<v Speaker 5>lion and leopard in our hunting areas because again most

1:34:21.160 --> 1:34:24.320
<v Speaker 5>of the research was done in the national parks where

1:34:24.360 --> 1:34:27.439
<v Speaker 5>it was comfortable and easy for the scientists. So we

1:34:27.960 --> 1:34:33.439
<v Speaker 5>paid for some researchers from Kingsville actually to come come

1:34:33.479 --> 1:34:36.080
<v Speaker 5>out and study the lines for two years and the

1:34:36.160 --> 1:34:40.240
<v Speaker 5>leopard and make population to check that our quotas were

1:34:40.280 --> 1:34:42.160
<v Speaker 5>actually within the right regions.

1:34:42.600 --> 1:34:44.679
<v Speaker 4>So do you have line do you have.

1:34:46.120 --> 1:34:48.439
<v Speaker 2>In your areas? Do you have.

1:34:48.479 --> 1:34:52.559
<v Speaker 4>Lion lions that you could hunt? But there's no clients

1:34:52.560 --> 1:34:53.840
<v Speaker 4>that want to buy that lion to egg.

1:34:53.960 --> 1:34:54.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, definitely.

1:34:55.680 --> 1:34:59.000
<v Speaker 5>And the other thing that the reality of it all

1:34:59.120 --> 1:35:02.519
<v Speaker 5>is is in the wild, very few lions make it

1:35:02.640 --> 1:35:06.719
<v Speaker 5>over the seven year you know, age restriction for hunting

1:35:07.320 --> 1:35:10.360
<v Speaker 5>because it's not like living in the Serengetti where there's

1:35:10.400 --> 1:35:16.120
<v Speaker 5>just plentiful wildlife everywhere. It's a tough life. And these younger,

1:35:16.520 --> 1:35:20.559
<v Speaker 5>stronger lions come in and they push those older males

1:35:20.600 --> 1:35:23.160
<v Speaker 5>out into these fringe areas. They get injured, they can't

1:35:23.160 --> 1:35:26.840
<v Speaker 5>feed themselves, they die a pretty nasty death. So for

1:35:26.920 --> 1:35:30.479
<v Speaker 5>one to find a lion over the seven year ages

1:35:30.640 --> 1:35:32.839
<v Speaker 5>is very hard. And then the pressure on a professional

1:35:32.880 --> 1:35:36.719
<v Speaker 5>hunter that he's got a judge that it's definitely over

1:35:36.800 --> 1:35:38.960
<v Speaker 5>seven years old by just looking at it.

1:35:39.000 --> 1:35:40.599
<v Speaker 2>What are you looking at when you look at it.

1:35:41.000 --> 1:35:43.719
<v Speaker 5>There's a whole range of things from.

1:35:43.920 --> 1:35:48.519
<v Speaker 2>Those coloration, main development, color of their shape, color of

1:35:48.520 --> 1:35:51.519
<v Speaker 2>their teeth, they have these glandular patches sort of on

1:35:51.560 --> 1:35:55.439
<v Speaker 2>their back, how they've developed. I mean, it's it's an

1:35:55.439 --> 1:35:59.120
<v Speaker 2>inexact science. Trail cameras are a real help because we

1:35:59.160 --> 1:36:02.680
<v Speaker 2>can get helpful on that kind of stuff. Yeah, a

1:36:02.720 --> 1:36:03.080
<v Speaker 2>little bit.

1:36:03.120 --> 1:36:04.360
<v Speaker 5>It comes down to you a judgment.

1:36:04.520 --> 1:36:06.600
<v Speaker 2>They're gonna say it's a huge lion no matter what,

1:36:07.360 --> 1:36:09.000
<v Speaker 2>and it might be a three year old. They're gonna

1:36:09.000 --> 1:36:11.080
<v Speaker 2>be liket some on stut and it's like people here

1:36:11.120 --> 1:36:17.560
<v Speaker 2>with mountain lions. Yeah, big old tomta Yeah yeah, totally

1:36:17.640 --> 1:36:18.160
<v Speaker 2>black bear.

1:36:18.520 --> 1:36:21.320
<v Speaker 6>So we were coming down the road looking for turkeys

1:36:21.400 --> 1:36:25.240
<v Speaker 6>last weekend and there's a black bear about the size

1:36:25.280 --> 1:36:27.840
<v Speaker 6>of my dog, a little white patch on his chest. Yeah,

1:36:27.880 --> 1:36:30.439
<v Speaker 6>and he's sitting like my dog, one leg kind of

1:36:30.479 --> 1:36:32.800
<v Speaker 6>kicked out on his back like this wait, literally waiting

1:36:32.800 --> 1:36:36.320
<v Speaker 6>for cars to get down the road, you know. And

1:36:37.080 --> 1:36:39.120
<v Speaker 6>I turned my buddy Kyler after he passed, and I

1:36:39.160 --> 1:36:43.040
<v Speaker 6>was like, knowing the area, I was like, you know,

1:36:43.479 --> 1:36:46.760
<v Speaker 6>let's swing around, show that little little guy off the

1:36:46.840 --> 1:36:49.719
<v Speaker 6>road a little bit. And when we had flipped around,

1:36:50.320 --> 1:36:52.479
<v Speaker 6>there was another There's like a truck down the road

1:36:52.560 --> 1:36:55.360
<v Speaker 6>like piling junk out of the like obviously digging for

1:36:55.360 --> 1:37:01.639
<v Speaker 6>their rifle. I just felt, I was like, we really care.

1:37:02.160 --> 1:37:06.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. It's one of those things where in an area

1:37:06.439 --> 1:37:09.680
<v Speaker 2>where there's a thriving lion population, it won't be just

1:37:09.920 --> 1:37:13.600
<v Speaker 2>one male with a pride. It'll be often a coalition,

1:37:14.280 --> 1:37:17.760
<v Speaker 2>and those males will frequently be related. They'll be sort

1:37:17.800 --> 1:37:22.120
<v Speaker 2>of littermates, so like cousins, brothers, sometimes a father and

1:37:22.240 --> 1:37:25.280
<v Speaker 2>sons that will sort of, you know, sort of run

1:37:25.320 --> 1:37:28.280
<v Speaker 2>that pride. They might run multiple prides, so there might

1:37:28.320 --> 1:37:31.920
<v Speaker 2>be two different groups of females x number of miles apart,

1:37:31.960 --> 1:37:34.000
<v Speaker 2>and there's this kind of coalition of males that have

1:37:34.080 --> 1:37:36.840
<v Speaker 2>sort of split their attention or kind of you know,

1:37:36.920 --> 1:37:41.320
<v Speaker 2>coordinate to run these prides. What will happen as those

1:37:41.400 --> 1:37:44.719
<v Speaker 2>lions age, you know, they get they get weaker and weaker,

1:37:45.520 --> 1:37:47.759
<v Speaker 2>and there'll be this there's this other sort of class

1:37:47.800 --> 1:37:52.479
<v Speaker 2>of lions that's nomads, and those will be basically the

1:37:52.560 --> 1:37:55.800
<v Speaker 2>young males of those prides that the coalition that haven't

1:37:55.880 --> 1:37:58.439
<v Speaker 2>joined the coalition, and the coalition won't tolerate them once

1:37:58.439 --> 1:38:00.880
<v Speaker 2>they get to a certain age, they'll kick him out

1:38:01.160 --> 1:38:04.240
<v Speaker 2>and so they become, you know, the young nomads. They're

1:38:04.320 --> 1:38:08.040
<v Speaker 2>out in the wilderness, you know, sometimes in groups, sometimes alone,

1:38:08.360 --> 1:38:12.360
<v Speaker 2>kind of basically building themselves up, doing a lot of hunting,

1:38:12.680 --> 1:38:14.919
<v Speaker 2>doing a lot of kind of bonding with their future

1:38:15.120 --> 1:38:18.640
<v Speaker 2>kind of coalition mates, and getting themselves ready to go

1:38:18.720 --> 1:38:21.439
<v Speaker 2>challenge for one of those prides. And then the other

1:38:21.520 --> 1:38:25.120
<v Speaker 2>category of nomads is ones that have been basically kicked

1:38:25.160 --> 1:38:28.000
<v Speaker 2>out as a result of one of those battles for dominance.

1:38:28.400 --> 1:38:30.800
<v Speaker 2>And when the battle for dominance happens a lot of

1:38:30.800 --> 1:38:33.000
<v Speaker 2>times that will result in the death of those older

1:38:33.080 --> 1:38:36.719
<v Speaker 2>lions or any number of the lions.

1:38:36.840 --> 1:38:39.400
<v Speaker 5>There was a brutal video from the Serengetti the other

1:38:39.479 --> 1:38:42.880
<v Speaker 5>day of like literally the king of the Serengetti being

1:38:43.000 --> 1:38:44.719
<v Speaker 5>wiped out by three younger males.

1:38:44.720 --> 1:38:45.960
<v Speaker 2>I mean just getting told.

1:38:46.080 --> 1:38:47.040
<v Speaker 5>It's a nasty ending.

1:38:48.040 --> 1:38:51.280
<v Speaker 2>But the ones that survive go will then go into

1:38:51.360 --> 1:38:55.160
<v Speaker 2>that nomad phase again. But he's never coming back to

1:38:55.280 --> 1:38:56.200
<v Speaker 2>Pride dominance.

1:38:57.160 --> 1:38:58.760
<v Speaker 4>He's he's not building up.

1:38:58.880 --> 1:39:00.879
<v Speaker 2>He's on the downswing.

1:39:00.960 --> 1:39:01.720
<v Speaker 5>He's done his job.

1:39:01.800 --> 1:39:05.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, he's on the downd. That's the only one we're

1:39:05.160 --> 1:39:08.800
<v Speaker 2>going to find. We can't shoot. We can't shoot a

1:39:08.840 --> 1:39:13.599
<v Speaker 2>Pride male ethically because if you upset the balance of

1:39:13.640 --> 1:39:17.960
<v Speaker 2>that coalition, what will happen is it'll it'll just be

1:39:18.040 --> 1:39:21.320
<v Speaker 2>inherently weaker having lost one of its members, which can

1:39:21.479 --> 1:39:26.200
<v Speaker 2>precipitate that Pride takeover from another group of males. And

1:39:26.320 --> 1:39:29.040
<v Speaker 2>what that'll do is once those males take over, if

1:39:29.040 --> 1:39:33.400
<v Speaker 2>there's any cubs from the previous males, they'll kill them.

1:39:33.560 --> 1:39:36.840
<v Speaker 2>And that has a physiological effect on the females, brings

1:39:36.880 --> 1:39:39.880
<v Speaker 2>them back into into season, brings it back into estros,

1:39:39.960 --> 1:39:43.160
<v Speaker 2>so then those new males can breed them. So it's

1:39:43.200 --> 1:39:44.360
<v Speaker 2>like the romans.

1:39:45.920 --> 1:39:50.519
<v Speaker 6>Real similar to ours here though, right so number one

1:39:50.640 --> 1:39:53.800
<v Speaker 6>killer of mountain lions as mountain lions, but is that

1:39:53.840 --> 1:39:58.160
<v Speaker 6>predatory or it can be bought, but typically males or

1:39:58.240 --> 1:40:01.320
<v Speaker 6>killing males, but also the exact same like males are

1:40:01.400 --> 1:40:05.800
<v Speaker 6>killing kittens because that female will come back into that then,

1:40:06.439 --> 1:40:07.160
<v Speaker 6>like right.

1:40:07.040 --> 1:40:11.719
<v Speaker 4>Away, yeah, when they do, uh with coastal brown bears,

1:40:12.439 --> 1:40:16.880
<v Speaker 4>when you do, like what are they eating? If you

1:40:16.920 --> 1:40:20.320
<v Speaker 4>were to list like what a mature male coastal brown

1:40:20.360 --> 1:40:24.639
<v Speaker 4>bears diet is high on the list is brown bears.

1:40:24.920 --> 1:40:26.680
<v Speaker 2>I told a woman that at a potty one time,

1:40:26.720 --> 1:40:29.040
<v Speaker 2>and she was just incredulous. She nearly clowed my eyes.

1:40:30.240 --> 1:40:33.000
<v Speaker 2>It's regarded as like a primary food source. Yeah, I mean,

1:40:33.040 --> 1:40:35.440
<v Speaker 2>I have no trouble a primary.

1:40:35.040 --> 1:40:36.920
<v Speaker 5>Food source fishermen.

1:40:38.280 --> 1:40:40.280
<v Speaker 6>Isn't it so funny though? It's like, well, what is

1:40:40.320 --> 1:40:42.880
<v Speaker 6>your agenda with that? And you're like, well, no, it's

1:40:42.960 --> 1:40:44.280
<v Speaker 6>just what that's what happens.

1:40:46.000 --> 1:40:50.679
<v Speaker 4>They got you guys have largely Maybe I'm getting this wrong.

1:40:51.240 --> 1:40:57.599
<v Speaker 4>But you guys have been for different reasons moved out

1:40:57.640 --> 1:40:59.759
<v Speaker 4>of the elephant hunting business.

1:41:00.320 --> 1:41:05.320
<v Speaker 5>Well, we as a company made a choice about twenty

1:41:05.439 --> 1:41:10.439
<v Speaker 5>years ago that we couldn't ethically hunt elephants in our

1:41:10.560 --> 1:41:13.479
<v Speaker 5>hunting areas in Tanzania. The poaching got so bad about

1:41:13.520 --> 1:41:17.879
<v Speaker 5>fifteen years ago that you know, for a mature elephant

1:41:17.960 --> 1:41:22.320
<v Speaker 5>with big ivory, it takes fifty sixty years to get

1:41:22.360 --> 1:41:24.599
<v Speaker 5>to that level, and I.

1:41:24.560 --> 1:41:30.200
<v Speaker 12>Think they're all so really to get to the point

1:41:30.680 --> 1:41:34.559
<v Speaker 12>that we would feel comfortable hunting one again would take

1:41:34.560 --> 1:41:37.840
<v Speaker 12>another twenty thirty years from now just to build up

1:41:37.880 --> 1:41:41.280
<v Speaker 12>those populations to an ethical level for us.

1:41:41.400 --> 1:41:45.479
<v Speaker 5>But there's still ethical you know, government limits. But we

1:41:45.640 --> 1:41:50.080
<v Speaker 5>just personally decided if you want to, well, we'll suggest

1:41:50.120 --> 1:41:54.360
<v Speaker 5>people go to Botswana or parts of Namibia where they've

1:41:54.360 --> 1:41:58.160
<v Speaker 5>got too many elephants and they actually physically have to

1:41:58.240 --> 1:42:02.320
<v Speaker 5>cull on top of the you know, the foreign hunting clients.

1:42:03.400 --> 1:42:05.200
<v Speaker 5>You know, Botswan or one point was have into cul

1:42:05.840 --> 1:42:08.080
<v Speaker 5>forty or fifty thousand elephant every year.

1:42:08.240 --> 1:42:12.160
<v Speaker 2>What yeah, yeah, no way, yeah, I mean the crop

1:42:12.280 --> 1:42:14.880
<v Speaker 2>damage that they can do and the and again, you know,

1:42:14.960 --> 1:42:19.839
<v Speaker 2>elephants are extremely migratory by nature. You know, they'll follow grass,

1:42:19.920 --> 1:42:25.280
<v Speaker 2>they'll follow the rains, they'll follow ancient ancestral paths to

1:42:25.680 --> 1:42:28.400
<v Speaker 2>get to different food resources at different times of the year.

1:42:28.960 --> 1:42:31.880
<v Speaker 2>And of course all that now has been like interdicted

1:42:32.000 --> 1:42:37.600
<v Speaker 2>by highways and development, farmland and so on. So you know,

1:42:37.800 --> 1:42:41.439
<v Speaker 2>if they can't do those migrations, they're increasingly pushed into

1:42:41.479 --> 1:42:44.080
<v Speaker 2>these smaller and smaller areas and they just eat themselves

1:42:44.120 --> 1:42:47.120
<v Speaker 2>out of house and home. And also they get in

1:42:47.240 --> 1:42:51.880
<v Speaker 2>conflict with those surrounding agricultural communities and that's where you know,

1:42:52.040 --> 1:42:54.599
<v Speaker 2>the necessity of a coal comes in. But where we're

1:42:54.600 --> 1:42:58.439
<v Speaker 2>not in that place in Tanzania anymore. And what's you know,

1:42:58.479 --> 1:43:02.080
<v Speaker 2>what's fundamentally changed for us is we know we if

1:43:02.120 --> 1:43:04.479
<v Speaker 2>you believe as we do, and I think as everyone

1:43:04.520 --> 1:43:07.040
<v Speaker 2>in this room does, whether it's in the North American

1:43:07.080 --> 1:43:10.000
<v Speaker 2>model or in our model, that you know, an animal,

1:43:10.439 --> 1:43:14.920
<v Speaker 2>there's in any sort of functional sort of population of animals,

1:43:14.920 --> 1:43:17.960
<v Speaker 2>there's a sustainable off take that that can be managed

1:43:18.000 --> 1:43:21.680
<v Speaker 2>and you know, can be utilized, whether it's lions or

1:43:21.680 --> 1:43:26.400
<v Speaker 2>whitetailed deer that you know that that's something that that's possible.

1:43:26.880 --> 1:43:30.120
<v Speaker 2>But when you've got that commercial poaching pressure over and

1:43:30.160 --> 1:43:32.599
<v Speaker 2>above on top of that, it just does it's not

1:43:32.640 --> 1:43:35.720
<v Speaker 2>sustainable anymore. We can't, you know, look at ourselves in

1:43:35.760 --> 1:43:38.040
<v Speaker 2>the mirror and say, yeah, you know, there's harve there's elephants.

1:43:38.040 --> 1:43:40.000
<v Speaker 2>We could harvest in these areas and it wouldn't be

1:43:40.000 --> 1:43:43.600
<v Speaker 2>detrimental to the population. So, you know, Robin Hurt Safaris

1:43:43.800 --> 1:43:44.799
<v Speaker 2>were out of that business.

1:43:44.880 --> 1:43:49.760
<v Speaker 6>Well, actually dropping offspring every single year.

1:43:49.960 --> 1:43:54.000
<v Speaker 2>No, they're not dropping four to seven year carving interval,

1:43:54.400 --> 1:44:00.719
<v Speaker 2>twenty two month gestation. Elephants breed well when they're left

1:44:01.080 --> 1:44:03.479
<v Speaker 2>to their own devices and when they have habitat, but

1:44:03.760 --> 1:44:07.719
<v Speaker 2>it's a slow process. It's generational. So if you lose

1:44:07.760 --> 1:44:10.200
<v Speaker 2>a whole bunch like we did, it takes a long

1:44:10.280 --> 1:44:11.360
<v Speaker 2>time to get to recover.

1:44:11.800 --> 1:44:14.519
<v Speaker 5>But what Morgan was saying a minute ago is something

1:44:14.520 --> 1:44:17.559
<v Speaker 5>that it touches a bone with me. For some reason,

1:44:17.640 --> 1:44:23.280
<v Speaker 5>hunting in Africa is labeled as trophy hunting, and okay,

1:44:23.320 --> 1:44:26.800
<v Speaker 5>trophies do come into it, like hunters always. There are

1:44:26.840 --> 1:44:30.080
<v Speaker 5>people who want the bigger animal, but it should really

1:44:30.120 --> 1:44:33.120
<v Speaker 5>be called sustainable hunting. What we do, that's what our

1:44:33.160 --> 1:44:36.519
<v Speaker 5>company is all about. It's making sure that our off

1:44:36.560 --> 1:44:40.120
<v Speaker 5>take does not affect the population. And it's my dad

1:44:40.120 --> 1:44:43.719
<v Speaker 5>always says, it's we're basically no different from a beef

1:44:43.760 --> 1:44:47.559
<v Speaker 5>cattle farmer. Like the wildlife is our crop and we

1:44:47.680 --> 1:44:51.720
<v Speaker 5>manage it. We have sustainable offtake, but we don't want

1:44:51.760 --> 1:44:56.200
<v Speaker 5>to do anything detrimental to that wildlife population because that's

1:44:56.200 --> 1:45:00.240
<v Speaker 5>how we make our living. And I know, I guess

1:45:00.280 --> 1:45:04.200
<v Speaker 5>a lot of celebrities and everyone have made this stigma

1:45:04.240 --> 1:45:08.760
<v Speaker 5>about hunting in Africa where it's all these rich Americans,

1:45:09.439 --> 1:45:12.519
<v Speaker 5>you know, standing over an animal, you know, and an

1:45:12.560 --> 1:45:15.840
<v Speaker 5>ego thing, where that's that's not what we're about, you know,

1:45:15.920 --> 1:45:23.639
<v Speaker 5>with traditional ethical hunters with very strong practices on age, sex,

1:45:23.760 --> 1:45:24.599
<v Speaker 5>everything like that.

1:45:24.960 --> 1:45:28.160
<v Speaker 6>Well, it's very confusing. And I'll tell you, like the

1:45:28.640 --> 1:45:30.600
<v Speaker 6>argument that I hear all the time, and I have

1:45:30.640 --> 1:45:35.240
<v Speaker 6>no answer too because I have no experience. Right, It's like, well,

1:45:35.280 --> 1:45:38.360
<v Speaker 6>where does that money go from that elephant hunt?

1:45:38.800 --> 1:45:39.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah?

1:45:39.200 --> 1:45:40.440
<v Speaker 6>Right, And it's like, well.

1:45:40.800 --> 1:45:43.960
<v Speaker 5>It generally all goes straight back into that area, you know,

1:45:43.960 --> 1:45:47.400
<v Speaker 5>because the game fee goes gets paid to the government,

1:45:47.400 --> 1:45:51.240
<v Speaker 5>which funds their game scouts who are back in the

1:45:51.360 --> 1:45:54.559
<v Speaker 5>area patrolling. And that's what I was saying with these

1:45:54.600 --> 1:45:58.479
<v Speaker 5>with these areas that disappeared after Cecil. It was because

1:45:58.520 --> 1:46:00.599
<v Speaker 5>there was there was no longer any funding, and they

1:46:00.600 --> 1:46:03.280
<v Speaker 5>put the funding back into the core places that are

1:46:03.280 --> 1:46:04.080
<v Speaker 5>bringing them money.

1:46:04.439 --> 1:46:06.720
<v Speaker 6>And that's what I'm confused about too, because so you

1:46:07.479 --> 1:46:11.120
<v Speaker 6>pay like a lease to the state for that concession,

1:46:11.560 --> 1:46:14.840
<v Speaker 6>but then at that point it sounds as if it

1:46:14.880 --> 1:46:19.960
<v Speaker 6>then becomes your responsibility to fully manage that concession.

1:46:19.760 --> 1:46:22.519
<v Speaker 5>In conjunction with the wildlife department.

1:46:22.760 --> 1:46:26.080
<v Speaker 6>But that Wildlife department will not operate there unless there's

1:46:26.080 --> 1:46:27.240
<v Speaker 6>an active concession.

1:46:27.439 --> 1:46:31.680
<v Speaker 5>Well, they just have limited funding and they're going to

1:46:31.680 --> 1:46:35.960
<v Speaker 5>put the funding at their core resources. So like the

1:46:36.000 --> 1:46:39.320
<v Speaker 5>Serengetti for instance, that has millions of tourists coming through

1:46:39.320 --> 1:46:42.479
<v Speaker 5>paying fees. They have all the funding they need for

1:46:42.960 --> 1:46:45.120
<v Speaker 5>that area and they're going to protect it because that's

1:46:45.320 --> 1:46:49.400
<v Speaker 5>bringing in the big bucks. And the more peripheral the

1:46:49.439 --> 1:46:52.120
<v Speaker 5>areas are, the less funding reaches those places, and that's

1:46:52.120 --> 1:46:55.679
<v Speaker 5>where hunting comes in. Without hunting, most of the areas

1:46:55.680 --> 1:46:59.839
<v Speaker 5>we operate would disappear in a matter of literally.

1:47:00.520 --> 1:47:05.839
<v Speaker 4>So your your business affords your business or the government

1:47:06.080 --> 1:47:09.280
<v Speaker 4>to be able to do monitoring in that area one

1:47:09.360 --> 1:47:09.960
<v Speaker 4>hundred percent.

1:47:10.280 --> 1:47:14.120
<v Speaker 2>So Tanzania has got I think it's forty percent of

1:47:14.160 --> 1:47:17.519
<v Speaker 2>their total land mass is set aside for some sort

1:47:17.560 --> 1:47:21.559
<v Speaker 2>of conservation effort, some sort of wildlife conservation, and sort

1:47:21.600 --> 1:47:25.040
<v Speaker 2>of various tiers of wilderness. So before when you were

1:47:25.080 --> 1:47:27.760
<v Speaker 2>talking about like no one lives in our in our

1:47:27.960 --> 1:47:30.920
<v Speaker 2>Leganzo concession because it's a game reserve, well that's kind

1:47:30.920 --> 1:47:34.880
<v Speaker 2>of our top tier of protection. Below that, there's other

1:47:34.960 --> 1:47:38.720
<v Speaker 2>tiers where you'll have areas where there are you know,

1:47:38.880 --> 1:47:41.360
<v Speaker 2>human inhabitants. There is a village inside the area, there

1:47:41.400 --> 1:47:45.000
<v Speaker 2>are people grazing through that area seasonally, there are people,

1:47:45.160 --> 1:47:49.760
<v Speaker 2>you know, honey, people collecting honey, people collecting fire, were

1:47:49.800 --> 1:47:53.200
<v Speaker 2>doing other activities. But there's still game there, and there's

1:47:53.240 --> 1:47:55.679
<v Speaker 2>still you know, it's still a hunting concession. There's still

1:47:55.720 --> 1:47:59.160
<v Speaker 2>management going on. There's still kind of an interaction between

1:47:59.600 --> 1:48:03.559
<v Speaker 2>the those people that are inhabiting or seasonally using the

1:48:03.600 --> 1:48:08.440
<v Speaker 2>area and the hunting operator and the government. But essentially,

1:48:08.920 --> 1:48:12.720
<v Speaker 2>you know, that's a huge chunk of land that the

1:48:12.760 --> 1:48:16.599
<v Speaker 2>Tanzanian government's committed to wildlife conservation. Like I'm not sure

1:48:16.920 --> 1:48:21.360
<v Speaker 2>what percentage of North America has set aside for some

1:48:21.400 --> 1:48:24.000
<v Speaker 2>sort of you know, wilderness or hunting, whether there's.

1:48:23.880 --> 1:48:26.960
<v Speaker 6>A what is it less than two percent?

1:48:27.280 --> 1:48:32.160
<v Speaker 2>No, well, yeah, but no the thirty by thirty is

1:48:32.160 --> 1:48:32.680
<v Speaker 2>that what it is?

1:48:33.680 --> 1:48:33.960
<v Speaker 6>Oh?

1:48:34.240 --> 1:48:38.080
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, but that's a way different definition. Yeah, right, by

1:48:38.160 --> 1:48:40.200
<v Speaker 4>two thousand, by two thousand.

1:48:39.840 --> 1:48:41.559
<v Speaker 2>And thirty having is that right?

1:48:41.960 --> 1:48:45.120
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, by two thousand and thirty, having thirty percent of

1:48:45.160 --> 1:48:48.360
<v Speaker 4>the US and some kind of it's a.

1:48:49.080 --> 1:48:53.639
<v Speaker 10>It incorporates things like CRP and yeah.

1:48:53.200 --> 1:48:55.400
<v Speaker 4>Well under some kind of conservation model.

1:48:55.439 --> 1:48:58.959
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And the lines here are a lot blurry between

1:49:00.120 --> 1:49:03.680
<v Speaker 2>wildlife habitat and agriculture. Right, Like, you can go on

1:49:04.439 --> 1:49:08.960
<v Speaker 2>a ranch that's being fairly intensively, you know, farmed or ranched,

1:49:09.040 --> 1:49:11.320
<v Speaker 2>and there'll be white taileda, there'll be analope, they'll be

1:49:11.520 --> 1:49:14.800
<v Speaker 2>coming down onto the alfalfa. They'll be predators, you know,

1:49:15.160 --> 1:49:19.880
<v Speaker 2>following those animals. In Tanzania, at least in northern mess Island,

1:49:19.880 --> 1:49:22.160
<v Speaker 2>it's a little different where people just graze animals, But

1:49:22.280 --> 1:49:25.720
<v Speaker 2>in most of central, kind of western and southern Tanzania,

1:49:25.960 --> 1:49:31.639
<v Speaker 2>there's like a hard delineation between agricultural land and land

1:49:31.680 --> 1:49:37.800
<v Speaker 2>for wildlife, and there's very little spillover because a lot

1:49:37.800 --> 1:49:42.519
<v Speaker 2>of that agriculture is subsistence farming, so there's no ability

1:49:42.560 --> 1:49:44.920
<v Speaker 2>for those people to accept Oh, well, a percentage of

1:49:44.920 --> 1:49:46.600
<v Speaker 2>my crop is going to go to the buffaloes. And

1:49:46.640 --> 1:49:49.240
<v Speaker 2>that's just kind of the way it is. That's that's not.

1:49:49.240 --> 1:49:51.920
<v Speaker 5>A and anything that steps in there is going to

1:49:51.920 --> 1:49:55.200
<v Speaker 5>get posts going to.

1:49:55.080 --> 1:49:57.880
<v Speaker 2>And because it's detrimental to their agriculture.

1:49:58.040 --> 1:50:00.479
<v Speaker 5>This is the biggest thing that you have to understand

1:50:00.479 --> 1:50:04.280
<v Speaker 5>about Africa is that for wildlife to survive, it has

1:50:04.320 --> 1:50:06.880
<v Speaker 5>to have a value because it's either going to be

1:50:07.040 --> 1:50:10.920
<v Speaker 5>eaten or it's destructive to that that crops, or it's

1:50:11.080 --> 1:50:14.320
<v Speaker 5>killing that cattle. You know, their lifestyle.

1:50:24.439 --> 1:50:27.920
<v Speaker 4>In the US, we're on we're like on edge, very

1:50:28.000 --> 1:50:33.920
<v Speaker 4>guarded about the pay to play model. Certain certain forces

1:50:33.960 --> 1:50:40.439
<v Speaker 4>are not right, but like you know, you're kind of

1:50:40.479 --> 1:50:44.000
<v Speaker 4>like meat and potatoes. Non aristocratic hunters are worried about

1:50:44.040 --> 1:50:46.800
<v Speaker 4>the pay to play model because it violates an understanding

1:50:46.800 --> 1:50:48.639
<v Speaker 4>of how we manage wildlife. When I was talking about

1:50:48.680 --> 1:50:53.240
<v Speaker 4>that that at its ideal, wildlife is allocated democratically.

1:50:53.360 --> 1:50:54.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, okay.

1:50:54.479 --> 1:50:58.280
<v Speaker 4>And and pay to play comes into there's one hundred

1:50:58.360 --> 1:51:00.360
<v Speaker 4>versions of pay to play emerging pay to play.

1:51:00.400 --> 1:51:01.000
<v Speaker 2>It would be.

1:51:02.439 --> 1:51:06.880
<v Speaker 4>Things like governor's tags, auction tags, where you're pulling it

1:51:06.880 --> 1:51:11.040
<v Speaker 4>out of democratically. It's you're taking animals, bighorn sheep, elk, whatever,

1:51:11.520 --> 1:51:14.760
<v Speaker 4>and the tag the opportunity would have been allocated democratically,

1:51:15.240 --> 1:51:17.519
<v Speaker 4>but it goes to the highest bidder. So that would

1:51:17.520 --> 1:51:19.519
<v Speaker 4>be an affront to pay to play. Another huge pay

1:51:19.560 --> 1:51:23.479
<v Speaker 4>to play aspect in the US is the rapidly i mean,

1:51:23.520 --> 1:51:29.960
<v Speaker 4>the increased, still increasing numbers of acreage that are where

1:51:30.040 --> 1:51:32.920
<v Speaker 4>hunting rights are leased. Right, Okay, it's a pay to

1:51:32.920 --> 1:51:37.799
<v Speaker 4>play model, and it's and it's generally regarded by most folks.

1:51:38.000 --> 1:51:44.880
<v Speaker 4>It's it's watching this progression is disheartening to people. They

1:51:44.880 --> 1:51:49.160
<v Speaker 4>don't it's depressing. But you guys are telling me when

1:51:49.160 --> 1:51:54.640
<v Speaker 4>we spoke recently, then this is not new. And like

1:51:54.680 --> 1:51:57.719
<v Speaker 4>the entire African system is built around pay to play,

1:51:57.800 --> 1:51:58.559
<v Speaker 4>it's always been.

1:51:59.040 --> 1:52:01.720
<v Speaker 2>It's always been that way, even you know, going back

1:52:01.760 --> 1:52:05.960
<v Speaker 2>again to the Roosevelt Safari, you know that you couldn't

1:52:06.280 --> 1:52:10.000
<v Speaker 2>I mean, the early guys would go to Cape Town

1:52:10.080 --> 1:52:12.599
<v Speaker 2>or something like that and buy a bunch of cattle

1:52:12.640 --> 1:52:14.680
<v Speaker 2>and hire a bunch of guys and load up these

1:52:14.720 --> 1:52:17.480
<v Speaker 2>wagon trains and head out, you know, into the wilderness.

1:52:18.120 --> 1:52:21.679
<v Speaker 2>But but it very quickly became if if someone wanted

1:52:21.720 --> 1:52:24.880
<v Speaker 2>to come and experience Africa. Whether it was someone with

1:52:25.160 --> 1:52:29.080
<v Speaker 2>the almost limitless means that that Roosevelt had at that time,

1:52:30.160 --> 1:52:35.280
<v Speaker 2>or you know, a British colonial officer, they would, you know,

1:52:35.320 --> 1:52:37.960
<v Speaker 2>they'd need to engage the services of someone who could

1:52:38.080 --> 1:52:41.920
<v Speaker 2>navigate that you know, deal with the very interact with

1:52:41.960 --> 1:52:44.120
<v Speaker 2>the various tribes they were going to come across, you know,

1:52:44.800 --> 1:52:47.360
<v Speaker 2>make sure that you know they were able to find

1:52:47.400 --> 1:52:50.920
<v Speaker 2>the appropriate habitats where those species resided. And I think

1:52:51.720 --> 1:52:54.040
<v Speaker 2>our industry's kind of always been that way. And I

1:52:54.080 --> 1:52:56.880
<v Speaker 2>sort of get the discomfort that that a lot of

1:52:56.880 --> 1:52:59.320
<v Speaker 2>people have with this notion that you can have a

1:52:59.360 --> 1:53:01.720
<v Speaker 2>guy living on the edge of a game reserve but

1:53:01.800 --> 1:53:02.920
<v Speaker 2>he's not allowed to hunt there.

1:53:03.080 --> 1:53:05.919
<v Speaker 4>Like is that really Like if you you're a resident

1:53:05.960 --> 1:53:09.439
<v Speaker 4>of Tanzania, you can resident there is no possible way

1:53:09.520 --> 1:53:11.120
<v Speaker 4>for you to go legally get.

1:53:11.080 --> 1:53:14.080
<v Speaker 5>We used to have resident hunting for all intents and

1:53:14.120 --> 1:53:15.800
<v Speaker 5>purposes and no.

1:53:15.840 --> 1:53:18.840
<v Speaker 2>But what I would say is that a lot of people,

1:53:18.920 --> 1:53:20.960
<v Speaker 2>probably I don't know if a lot of people have

1:53:21.040 --> 1:53:23.000
<v Speaker 2>thought about this, but I've thought about it quite a

1:53:23.080 --> 1:53:25.799
<v Speaker 2>lot recently, having spent a lot of time in North America.

1:53:26.000 --> 1:53:30.200
<v Speaker 2>Is I think the North American model is underpinned by

1:53:30.240 --> 1:53:34.880
<v Speaker 2>something else other than sort of just the democratization of wildlife,

1:53:35.240 --> 1:53:38.720
<v Speaker 2>and that is the sort of like presupposition that there's

1:53:38.760 --> 1:53:41.160
<v Speaker 2>a large number of this people in this country that

1:53:41.240 --> 1:53:45.400
<v Speaker 2>aren't living hand to mouth. Okay, r I fundamentally believe

1:53:45.520 --> 1:53:51.160
<v Speaker 2>that the North American model wouldn't function in this country

1:53:51.280 --> 1:53:55.240
<v Speaker 2>if sixty percent of the population of this country was

1:53:55.280 --> 1:53:58.559
<v Speaker 2>living on a dollar a day and trying to figure

1:53:58.600 --> 1:53:59.439
<v Speaker 2>out ways to feed them.

1:53:59.479 --> 1:54:00.800
<v Speaker 4>Well, you know what actually up on that?

1:54:01.640 --> 1:54:08.240
<v Speaker 3>No it didn't right, No, no, no, we weren't through that,

1:54:09.120 --> 1:54:11.800
<v Speaker 3>absolutely absolutely, and they wipe the place clean, wipe the

1:54:11.800 --> 1:54:15.400
<v Speaker 3>place clean, right and and and Africa and I speak,

1:54:15.680 --> 1:54:19.280
<v Speaker 3>you know through the lens of Tanzania specifically, is still

1:54:19.400 --> 1:54:23.520
<v Speaker 3>on that development trajectory where you know, there's a growing population,

1:54:23.600 --> 1:54:25.880
<v Speaker 3>there's all this pressure, there's a huge.

1:54:25.640 --> 1:54:29.000
<v Speaker 2>Number of people that are living on a really really

1:54:29.080 --> 1:54:34.960
<v Speaker 2>hand to mouth existence, and you know, democratizing wildlife in

1:54:35.200 --> 1:54:39.520
<v Speaker 2>with those under those circumstances would lead to I think

1:54:39.640 --> 1:54:42.240
<v Speaker 2>like it's like the tragedy of the commons right where

1:54:42.280 --> 1:54:46.360
<v Speaker 2>it's just like there's all this pressure of consumption on

1:54:46.520 --> 1:54:49.440
<v Speaker 2>very limited resources. And also I would think if you

1:54:49.600 --> 1:54:51.680
<v Speaker 2>I think if you spoke to the average Tanzania and

1:54:51.760 --> 1:54:54.760
<v Speaker 2>like sport hunting isn't a high priority for them, just

1:54:54.960 --> 1:54:56.840
<v Speaker 2>about the meat. It'd be about the meat. And so

1:54:56.960 --> 1:54:59.720
<v Speaker 2>what what we do, what our objective is is a

1:54:59.760 --> 1:55:06.520
<v Speaker 2>come is to basically extend those benefits to those communities,

1:55:06.600 --> 1:55:09.520
<v Speaker 2>partner with those communities and allow those people that live

1:55:09.560 --> 1:55:11.400
<v Speaker 2>on the edge of the gamers of Okay, they can't

1:55:11.400 --> 1:55:13.720
<v Speaker 2>grab their bow and arrow draw, you know, apply for

1:55:13.760 --> 1:55:15.720
<v Speaker 2>a tag and go in there and shoot a buffalo,

1:55:16.080 --> 1:55:19.640
<v Speaker 2>but you know that there's meat coming back to their communities,

1:55:19.840 --> 1:55:22.800
<v Speaker 2>there's employment coming back to their communities, there's things they

1:55:22.920 --> 1:55:26.400
<v Speaker 2>need like clinic schools, et cetera, et cetera. So they're

1:55:26.440 --> 1:55:31.440
<v Speaker 2>benefiting in an indirect sort of one degree removed from

1:55:31.560 --> 1:55:35.920
<v Speaker 2>our operations as opposed to just sort of saying, well, hey,

1:55:35.960 --> 1:55:39.440
<v Speaker 2>this resource is quite literally for everybody in the sense

1:55:39.440 --> 1:55:40.760
<v Speaker 2>that it's accessible to you.

1:55:41.120 --> 1:55:45.160
<v Speaker 4>So the wildlife isn't allocated, but some of the funding is.

1:55:45.560 --> 1:55:48.560
<v Speaker 2>Some of the funding is allocated, definitely, And we couldn't

1:55:48.600 --> 1:55:52.200
<v Speaker 2>do what we do without partnership with those communities. Right,

1:55:52.280 --> 1:55:55.680
<v Speaker 2>Like if our model was role in their run rough

1:55:55.680 --> 1:55:58.600
<v Speaker 2>shot over them, put up fences, keep them out, you know,

1:55:58.680 --> 1:56:02.160
<v Speaker 2>have our anti poaching guy is you know, essentially you know,

1:56:02.240 --> 1:56:04.960
<v Speaker 2>intimidating them to stay out of our area. It wouldn't

1:56:05.000 --> 1:56:06.760
<v Speaker 2>work because they have more of them than there are

1:56:06.880 --> 1:56:10.600
<v Speaker 2>us always going to be. So the only way that

1:56:10.680 --> 1:56:15.160
<v Speaker 2>our model functions is if those communities feel that they're

1:56:15.760 --> 1:56:21.960
<v Speaker 2>a stakeholder in this this model, that they're benefiting. And

1:56:22.040 --> 1:56:26.280
<v Speaker 2>so that's really that's our biggest challenge and that's our

1:56:26.520 --> 1:56:27.680
<v Speaker 2>that's our primary focus.

1:56:27.720 --> 1:56:29.600
<v Speaker 5>I mean, America has a great system. I mean the

1:56:30.040 --> 1:56:30.720
<v Speaker 5>tag system.

1:56:31.520 --> 1:56:32.320
<v Speaker 2>It's the best in the world.

1:56:33.080 --> 1:56:35.640
<v Speaker 5>I mean, I didn't ever understand.

1:56:37.400 --> 1:56:41.240
<v Speaker 2>Un ironically it is, but there's some preconditions. I think

1:56:41.280 --> 1:56:44.360
<v Speaker 2>that it's a great point. Randall and I are working

1:56:44.400 --> 1:56:46.360
<v Speaker 2>on a project.

1:56:46.880 --> 1:56:50.520
<v Speaker 4>We're working on a project about it'll be a it

1:56:50.520 --> 1:56:52.960
<v Speaker 4>will be an audiobook, like an audio like a yeah,

1:56:53.040 --> 1:56:53.720
<v Speaker 4>an audiobook.

1:56:53.760 --> 1:56:56.920
<v Speaker 6>I imagine his title would be doctor Williams On that.

1:57:00.280 --> 1:57:02.960
<v Speaker 2>We're working on. The first one we're doing is.

1:57:03.040 --> 1:57:09.040
<v Speaker 4>A history of the of the deer, well what we call.

1:57:09.000 --> 1:57:11.640
<v Speaker 2>The long hunters. If you've heard of a fella named

1:57:11.680 --> 1:57:14.400
<v Speaker 2>Daniel Boone, oh yeah, he made his name for himself

1:57:14.440 --> 1:57:17.400
<v Speaker 2>as a long hunter, but focused heavily on the deer

1:57:18.360 --> 1:57:22.280
<v Speaker 2>trade in colonial America, interesting because they were in bad

1:57:22.320 --> 1:57:23.160
<v Speaker 2>shape for a while.

1:57:23.200 --> 1:57:25.040
<v Speaker 4>Oh and what you're talking about when you talk about

1:57:25.120 --> 1:57:29.400
<v Speaker 4>like what about when everyone is in poverty? Right, how

1:57:29.440 --> 1:57:32.920
<v Speaker 4>does the system? So there's so many things that in

1:57:33.040 --> 1:57:38.400
<v Speaker 4>Randall's research that just the things that are brought to

1:57:38.520 --> 1:57:41.520
<v Speaker 4>mind and talking to you about what goes on in

1:57:41.560 --> 1:57:47.000
<v Speaker 4>Tanzania would be these like very early wild temptation attempts,

1:57:47.000 --> 1:57:53.840
<v Speaker 4>not temptations, attempts at slowing the slaughter right from pot hunters,

1:57:54.600 --> 1:57:57.000
<v Speaker 4>from professional poachers, of which you know Boone was essentially

1:57:57.040 --> 1:58:02.840
<v Speaker 4>a professional poacher, meaning that if you didn't own land

1:58:03.280 --> 1:58:06.160
<v Speaker 4>in a district, you weren't allowed to hunt interest, you

1:58:06.160 --> 1:58:08.879
<v Speaker 4>weren't allowed to hunt somewhere where you didn't live nearby,

1:58:09.120 --> 1:58:10.240
<v Speaker 4>like the European model.

1:58:10.320 --> 1:58:10.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and like.

1:58:10.880 --> 1:58:15.080
<v Speaker 4>Trying to which no one paid attention to that, but

1:58:15.160 --> 1:58:17.400
<v Speaker 4>like them trying to go like okay, how would you

1:58:17.520 --> 1:58:20.120
<v Speaker 4>do something like this? And I couldn't believe on one

1:58:20.120 --> 1:58:22.040
<v Speaker 4>of the first prohibitions on deer hunting was in the

1:58:22.040 --> 1:58:25.440
<v Speaker 4>seventeen hundreds. Wh Yeah, there's going like what if we

1:58:25.520 --> 1:58:28.400
<v Speaker 4>had a time a year? What if we had a

1:58:28.440 --> 1:58:32.080
<v Speaker 4>time a year? And you can't hunt. And basically the response.

1:58:31.760 --> 1:58:36.040
<v Speaker 2>Is yeah, I hope everybody else.

1:58:37.840 --> 1:58:40.360
<v Speaker 4>But it was it was like like like sort of

1:58:40.440 --> 1:58:45.280
<v Speaker 4>watching this young country to be going like, well, let's

1:58:45.320 --> 1:58:48.560
<v Speaker 4>say you did want to save some of it, Like

1:58:49.160 --> 1:58:51.960
<v Speaker 4>where do you begin, you know, with a bunch of ideas.

1:58:51.960 --> 1:58:55.280
<v Speaker 2>It didn't hold. So what defines a long hunter? They

1:58:55.280 --> 1:58:58.920
<v Speaker 2>went on some long ass hunter? Got it? Got it okay?

1:58:59.440 --> 1:59:01.880
<v Speaker 6>They would only turn if they had enough meat to

1:59:02.320 --> 1:59:02.920
<v Speaker 6>bring back.

1:59:03.280 --> 1:59:07.200
<v Speaker 4>Wow, okay, And that's hide hunters. They were generally like deer.

1:59:07.280 --> 1:59:11.720
<v Speaker 4>They were deer. They were hunting. Generally, they sold a

1:59:11.720 --> 1:59:13.800
<v Speaker 4>lot of bush meat. Got it okay, They sold a

1:59:13.800 --> 1:59:14.400
<v Speaker 4>lot of bush meat.

1:59:14.400 --> 1:59:14.880
<v Speaker 2>But they were.

1:59:14.760 --> 1:59:20.320
<v Speaker 4>Generally hunting hides, primarily white tail deer hides that would

1:59:20.320 --> 1:59:22.280
<v Speaker 4>get exported to europe interests.

1:59:22.360 --> 1:59:26.280
<v Speaker 10>And there's also the parallel of like global demand for

1:59:26.360 --> 1:59:31.720
<v Speaker 10>commodities feeling excessive harvest, right like when you're talking about

1:59:32.280 --> 1:59:36.120
<v Speaker 10>ivory trade, right like, in the commercial demand for those resources,

1:59:37.120 --> 1:59:41.280
<v Speaker 10>there's like a bottomless demand for or an endless demand

1:59:41.480 --> 1:59:44.920
<v Speaker 10>whatever you want to call it, for white tail deer

1:59:45.280 --> 1:59:48.720
<v Speaker 10>skins to turn into leather for leather products.

1:59:48.880 --> 1:59:51.320
<v Speaker 2>And it's just like from people that didn't really care

1:59:51.480 --> 1:59:55.720
<v Speaker 2>how you got them, right, Yeah, as long as like

1:59:55.760 --> 1:59:57.280
<v Speaker 2>you said you talked about earlier, like if you can

1:59:57.320 --> 1:59:59.000
<v Speaker 2>get them to the port, that's good enough for me.

1:59:59.000 --> 1:59:59.160
<v Speaker 5>Goo.

2:00:00.440 --> 2:00:03.920
<v Speaker 2>The fascinating thing with North America to me is like

2:00:05.480 --> 2:00:09.200
<v Speaker 2>the obviously those animal populations just just took a dive.

2:00:09.280 --> 2:00:11.680
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I've heard about the in relation to turkeys

2:00:11.680 --> 2:00:16.280
<v Speaker 2>and whitetailed deer in particular. But obviously the habitat was

2:00:16.320 --> 2:00:20.760
<v Speaker 2>still there to enable that. Once once they had figured

2:00:20.800 --> 2:00:23.800
<v Speaker 2>out through whatever like political or social means to put

2:00:23.840 --> 2:00:28.720
<v Speaker 2>this structure to conserve these animals, set seasons, you limit harvest.

2:00:29.000 --> 2:00:31.600
<v Speaker 2>Once that was in place, the animals were able to

2:00:31.720 --> 2:00:37.040
<v Speaker 2>bounce back because that habitat was intact. Whereas what we

2:00:37.320 --> 2:00:42.000
<v Speaker 2>face really is like Roger was talking about before that

2:00:42.200 --> 2:00:44.840
<v Speaker 2>loss of habitat, and I think you said something once

2:00:44.880 --> 2:00:47.480
<v Speaker 2>along the lines of like when you see someone building

2:00:47.600 --> 2:00:50.600
<v Speaker 2>some sort of structure, you think in your head, well,

2:00:50.640 --> 2:00:54.280
<v Speaker 2>that'll never be habitat again. And that's what that's what

2:00:54.320 --> 2:00:56.839
<v Speaker 2>we deal with day and day out. Once that field

2:00:56.880 --> 2:01:01.080
<v Speaker 2>of maize gets planted, once that tree gets once the

2:01:01.280 --> 2:01:03.720
<v Speaker 2>you know, once all that's done, once those cattle are

2:01:03.760 --> 2:01:06.880
<v Speaker 2>in there, that'll never be habitat again any of you.

2:01:06.800 --> 2:01:10.560
<v Speaker 5>Want to. It's it's a fifteen to five year process

2:01:10.640 --> 2:01:13.560
<v Speaker 5>to recreate something that's destroyed in six months.

2:01:13.640 --> 2:01:16.120
<v Speaker 2>Well, and politically you go evict those people, which is

2:01:16.120 --> 2:01:16.680
<v Speaker 2>a nightmare.

2:01:16.960 --> 2:01:19.400
<v Speaker 4>There's one exception to my rule is my friend Matt

2:01:19.400 --> 2:01:21.160
<v Speaker 4>Cook has a farm and there was a house on

2:01:21.240 --> 2:01:24.880
<v Speaker 4>air and he the fire department came in and burned

2:01:24.880 --> 2:01:27.080
<v Speaker 4>the house down like to do practice, and then he

2:01:27.120 --> 2:01:31.760
<v Speaker 4>scraped up the foundation and they just planted over the.

2:01:31.720 --> 2:01:32.440
<v Speaker 2>Top of the house.

2:01:33.120 --> 2:01:36.520
<v Speaker 4>And every time you go through that area there is

2:01:36.640 --> 2:01:40.720
<v Speaker 4>something hanging out sitting on the house.

2:01:41.440 --> 2:01:43.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I do. It's not really it's not really a

2:01:43.760 --> 2:01:44.680
<v Speaker 2>scalable model. No.

2:01:45.880 --> 2:01:47.680
<v Speaker 4>One time we go so one time you go buy

2:01:47.720 --> 2:01:50.680
<v Speaker 4>it as a groundhog stand in their last time two

2:01:50.720 --> 2:01:53.040
<v Speaker 4>times ago I went by it, there's a fox squirrel.

2:01:52.720 --> 2:01:54.560
<v Speaker 2>Stand in there. And I'm not kidding you.

2:01:54.560 --> 2:01:56.840
<v Speaker 4>We were just doing a fundraiser hunt there and the

2:01:56.920 --> 2:01:59.720
<v Speaker 4>turkey that my like my fundraiser guy that I was

2:01:59.760 --> 2:02:04.720
<v Speaker 4>guy helping the turkey that he killed. When I spotted

2:02:04.720 --> 2:02:06.320
<v Speaker 4>that turkey, it was standing on.

2:02:06.240 --> 2:02:10.240
<v Speaker 2>That place nice. So just that place to that guy.

2:02:10.520 --> 2:02:13.680
<v Speaker 2>I often kind of have fantasies like driving the Paradise Valley,

2:02:13.720 --> 2:02:15.800
<v Speaker 2>like maybe you could just scrape all this back.

2:02:19.360 --> 2:02:24.080
<v Speaker 4>Like, let me choose my words very carefully. Had someone

2:02:24.160 --> 2:02:28.520
<v Speaker 4>in eighteen hundred thought that they would just put a

2:02:28.720 --> 2:02:34.840
<v Speaker 4>giant trailhead right alongside what would become High ninety and

2:02:34.880 --> 2:02:38.440
<v Speaker 4>that was the trailhead for that for everything to the

2:02:38.480 --> 2:02:42.320
<v Speaker 4>south of there, they would be they would be applauded today.

2:02:44.680 --> 2:02:45.800
<v Speaker 2>You know that ain't gonna happen.

2:02:46.920 --> 2:02:50.200
<v Speaker 4>I had some other point I was gonna make about

2:02:51.040 --> 2:02:52.280
<v Speaker 4>what the hell are we talking about before I start

2:02:52.280 --> 2:02:54.440
<v Speaker 4>talking about my buddy's place. Well, that habitat when it

2:02:54.560 --> 2:02:59.160
<v Speaker 4>goes well, we've been we've mentioned Roosevelt a lot. Yeah,

2:02:59.200 --> 2:03:03.080
<v Speaker 4>so we've been mentioning his safari sort of. You mentioned

2:03:03.080 --> 2:03:04.200
<v Speaker 4>like the habitat was still there.

2:03:04.320 --> 2:03:04.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

2:03:06.000 --> 2:03:12.360
<v Speaker 4>His his kind of genius at the time was it

2:03:12.480 --> 2:03:18.280
<v Speaker 4>was just focused on basically preservation of preservation of habitat,

2:03:18.400 --> 2:03:23.000
<v Speaker 4>right it was stopped, well, stop the slaughter, yeah, like

2:03:23.040 --> 2:03:29.680
<v Speaker 4>stop unregulated slaughter and then save ground. Right, knowing that

2:03:30.120 --> 2:03:34.360
<v Speaker 4>just the fecundity the biology of the animals, if you

2:03:34.440 --> 2:03:37.720
<v Speaker 4>stop killing every last one of them and you save

2:03:37.880 --> 2:03:42.240
<v Speaker 4>chunks of ground, it would kind of yah. Later later,

2:03:42.400 --> 2:03:46.200
<v Speaker 4>much later, you know, in the fifties sixties, we started

2:03:46.240 --> 2:03:49.360
<v Speaker 4>to really do a lot more around putting animals back

2:03:49.400 --> 2:03:53.720
<v Speaker 4>on habitat right, you know, moving animals around, recovering stuff.

2:03:53.800 --> 2:03:56.640
<v Speaker 4>But initially the conservation play in the US was, uh,

2:03:57.360 --> 2:04:02.040
<v Speaker 4>stop commercial slaughter and put some kind of loss prevention

2:04:02.960 --> 2:04:06.360
<v Speaker 4>in place on on habitat right. And then later we

2:04:06.400 --> 2:04:09.920
<v Speaker 4>started like to fine tune through you know, all these

2:04:10.160 --> 2:04:15.240
<v Speaker 4>restoration you know, not captive breeding and putting animals back up.

2:04:15.280 --> 2:04:17.960
<v Speaker 4>But early on, man, it was like it was just

2:04:18.000 --> 2:04:20.320
<v Speaker 4>those two things. And it's what kind of reminds me

2:04:20.360 --> 2:04:22.920
<v Speaker 4>a little bit of what we're talking about here, is

2:04:23.200 --> 2:04:24.680
<v Speaker 4>like what we're talking about that you guys see in

2:04:24.720 --> 2:04:27.600
<v Speaker 4>Africa is like try to stop commercial slaughter, right, and

2:04:27.600 --> 2:04:28.760
<v Speaker 4>then try to hang underground.

2:04:28.920 --> 2:04:34.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah yeah. South Africa went through a like a reintroduction phase. Well, yeah,

2:04:34.480 --> 2:04:37.680
<v Speaker 2>because they privatized. They went a different direction to us.

2:04:37.760 --> 2:04:40.640
<v Speaker 2>They privatized the kind of resource and so I think

2:04:40.680 --> 2:04:44.240
<v Speaker 2>they went from something like four million head of game

2:04:44.320 --> 2:04:48.240
<v Speaker 2>in the entire country to like twenty million in a

2:04:48.440 --> 2:04:53.080
<v Speaker 2>couple of decades because essentially, you know, they became a

2:04:53.160 --> 2:04:55.440
<v Speaker 2>market for you know, people to go over there and

2:04:55.520 --> 2:04:58.320
<v Speaker 2>hunt or you know, do photo safaris or whatever it was.

2:04:59.560 --> 2:05:02.920
<v Speaker 2>And and yeah, people started breeding game. Since they could

2:05:02.920 --> 2:05:06.000
<v Speaker 2>own it, they could breed it. So they'd buy a

2:05:06.000 --> 2:05:08.080
<v Speaker 2>couple or whatever and put them together and breed and

2:05:08.120 --> 2:05:11.440
<v Speaker 2>then sell the excess and it sort of repopulated. I

2:05:11.480 --> 2:05:14.280
<v Speaker 2>think it. You know, there's downsides to that model, a

2:05:14.280 --> 2:05:17.520
<v Speaker 2>little bit, like you're talking about your shd antlers, right,

2:05:17.560 --> 2:05:19.480
<v Speaker 2>there's a little something I think in a lot of

2:05:19.520 --> 2:05:24.680
<v Speaker 2>people where knowing that animal is the sort of offspring

2:05:24.760 --> 2:05:28.480
<v Speaker 2>of captive maybe takes a little bit of the little

2:05:28.480 --> 2:05:33.240
<v Speaker 2>bit of the glass off it. It's certainly I wouldn't

2:05:33.280 --> 2:05:35.920
<v Speaker 2>say I'm necessarily firmly in that camp, but like I

2:05:35.960 --> 2:05:37.960
<v Speaker 2>feel that a little bit. You know. One of the

2:05:38.000 --> 2:05:41.080
<v Speaker 2>great things about Tanzania is like you're hunting a wilderness

2:05:41.080 --> 2:05:45.000
<v Speaker 2>that's kind of always been like that, and those animals

2:05:45.200 --> 2:05:48.800
<v Speaker 2>are the descendants are the ones that Roosevelt hunted, you know.

2:05:49.040 --> 2:05:53.040
<v Speaker 2>So there's that, But you can't argue with the success

2:05:53.040 --> 2:05:56.760
<v Speaker 2>of that model from a just numbers of animals on

2:05:56.840 --> 2:06:00.000
<v Speaker 2>the ground standpoint. It's a hugely successful.

2:05:59.520 --> 2:06:01.760
<v Speaker 4>Model's got a question, Oh sorry, go ahead.

2:06:01.760 --> 2:06:02.760
<v Speaker 5>So I was going to say, going back to the

2:06:02.840 --> 2:06:06.919
<v Speaker 5>Roosevelt protecting the habitat thing. I think that's our biggest

2:06:07.040 --> 2:06:10.320
<v Speaker 5>issue in Africa right now is like the population in

2:06:10.360 --> 2:06:14.920
<v Speaker 5>Africa is already one point three billion people and it's

2:06:14.960 --> 2:06:17.840
<v Speaker 5>set to basically double in the next twenty five years.

2:06:18.040 --> 2:06:21.320
<v Speaker 5>So the pressure on land is just like it's never

2:06:21.360 --> 2:06:21.840
<v Speaker 5>been before.

2:06:21.960 --> 2:06:23.680
<v Speaker 2>You're not terily optimistic, are you.

2:06:23.720 --> 2:06:27.280
<v Speaker 5>No, it's I mean everyone's so in the great world

2:06:27.400 --> 2:06:32.240
<v Speaker 5>is anti hunting, especially African hunting. But we're preserving these

2:06:32.320 --> 2:06:36.360
<v Speaker 5>huge wilderness areas that have so much pressure. And I

2:06:36.880 --> 2:06:39.720
<v Speaker 5>would be totally forwadive. There were other forms of land

2:06:39.800 --> 2:06:43.600
<v Speaker 5>use that could protect it, and the photo tourism has

2:06:43.680 --> 2:06:46.880
<v Speaker 5>their areas, but none of those people want to go

2:06:46.920 --> 2:06:50.880
<v Speaker 5>to the places we hunt. It needs something to protect

2:06:50.960 --> 2:06:53.880
<v Speaker 5>those areas, and at the moment, we're the answer. And

2:06:53.960 --> 2:06:56.920
<v Speaker 5>until someone comes up with something else, people need to

2:06:56.960 --> 2:06:58.760
<v Speaker 5>realize how important what we do is.

2:06:59.000 --> 2:07:01.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, there's that huge temptation to like say, well, just

2:07:01.520 --> 2:07:05.000
<v Speaker 2>swap the gun for the camera, right, and then there's

2:07:05.080 --> 2:07:08.720
<v Speaker 2>no killing, there's no you know, it's then it's all

2:07:09.120 --> 2:07:15.360
<v Speaker 2>quote unquote sustainable. The issue with that is Tanzania already

2:07:15.400 --> 2:07:18.200
<v Speaker 2>has I think on the mainland, like I think it's

2:07:18.480 --> 2:07:23.040
<v Speaker 2>fourteen or sixteen national parks, and I think three or

2:07:23.160 --> 2:07:27.360
<v Speaker 2>four of them generate enough revenue from visitors to basically

2:07:27.400 --> 2:07:30.400
<v Speaker 2>cover all those costs that we talked about, like having

2:07:30.440 --> 2:07:33.360
<v Speaker 2>guys patrol the boundaries, having guys work with the local

2:07:33.400 --> 2:07:39.720
<v Speaker 2>communities to kind of encourage you know, participation but not encroachment,

2:07:41.400 --> 2:07:45.280
<v Speaker 2>and the rest of them, you know, and the government's

2:07:45.320 --> 2:07:48.160
<v Speaker 2>doing their best, but again, resources are tight. It's a

2:07:48.160 --> 2:07:51.360
<v Speaker 2>country that's trying to develop, trying to create more opportunities

2:07:51.360 --> 2:07:53.480
<v Speaker 2>for their people. Resources are tight. So a lot of

2:07:53.480 --> 2:07:57.680
<v Speaker 2>those areas that are ostensibly you know, for photographic tourism

2:07:57.920 --> 2:08:00.760
<v Speaker 2>are just not in good shape. They're not adding the

2:08:01.240 --> 2:08:05.160
<v Speaker 2>visitors to sort of cover the costs of managing those areas.

2:08:05.200 --> 2:08:08.120
<v Speaker 2>And I can tell you a photo tourist isn't going

2:08:08.200 --> 2:08:11.360
<v Speaker 2>to follow tracks of Buffalo for eight or ten hours

2:08:11.400 --> 2:08:14.280
<v Speaker 2>a day and the baking hot sun pushing through thorn

2:08:14.280 --> 2:08:16.520
<v Speaker 2>bushes to get a grainy image of the ars end

2:08:16.600 --> 2:08:20.680
<v Speaker 2>of one direction. But hunters will do that all day

2:08:20.720 --> 2:08:23.280
<v Speaker 2>long and pay for the privilege. So we have a

2:08:23.440 --> 2:08:26.640
<v Speaker 2>different and while getting bitten by tetsiflies and you know,

2:08:27.120 --> 2:08:30.960
<v Speaker 2>dodging snakes, I mean, we it's just a different it's

2:08:31.000 --> 2:08:35.120
<v Speaker 2>a different client hell for a different product. But that

2:08:35.240 --> 2:08:39.680
<v Speaker 2>ecosystem that has the low game density, the sandy soil

2:08:39.720 --> 2:08:43.160
<v Speaker 2>and the Tetsi flies is no less valid of an

2:08:43.160 --> 2:08:47.040
<v Speaker 2>ecosystem and no less important for sustaining certain species than

2:08:47.080 --> 2:08:50.840
<v Speaker 2>the Serengeti is in my view. Kel's got a question

2:08:50.880 --> 2:08:51.080
<v Speaker 2>for you.

2:08:51.960 --> 2:08:55.360
<v Speaker 6>Oh I that was a beautiful statement. Linger a little bit.

2:08:56.080 --> 2:08:56.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

2:08:56.440 --> 2:09:00.480
<v Speaker 6>Absolutely, habitat, man, it's all habitat it is. And one

2:09:00.520 --> 2:09:02.920
<v Speaker 6>of the greatest things about hunting is the fact that

2:09:03.880 --> 2:09:07.000
<v Speaker 6>a lot of people go to New York State, but

2:09:07.120 --> 2:09:08.560
<v Speaker 6>they don't go to the parts of New York State

2:09:08.600 --> 2:09:11.880
<v Speaker 6>that I go to, right, or swap that out for

2:09:12.000 --> 2:09:17.200
<v Speaker 6>Montana or Maryland or wherever. It just takes you off

2:09:17.280 --> 2:09:22.000
<v Speaker 6>of the tourist map, and it's it's a ultimately, in

2:09:22.000 --> 2:09:24.320
<v Speaker 6>my mind, a much more real experience, right.

2:09:24.240 --> 2:09:26.960
<v Speaker 2>Oh big time. I mean the thing that I say

2:09:26.960 --> 2:09:29.720
<v Speaker 2>to people that it's like kind of become a little

2:09:29.720 --> 2:09:33.880
<v Speaker 2>bit of something I repeat again and again. But safari,

2:09:33.960 --> 2:09:37.360
<v Speaker 2>the word safari doesn't mean hunting trip. There's a word

2:09:37.400 --> 2:09:39.840
<v Speaker 2>for hunting in Swahili. It's quinda, which I also think

2:09:39.920 --> 2:09:41.920
<v Speaker 2>kind of rolls off the tongue to be honest, but

2:09:42.280 --> 2:09:45.320
<v Speaker 2>that wasn't selected as the word to describe what we do.

2:09:45.680 --> 2:09:50.640
<v Speaker 2>Safari was and what Safari means is journey, and people forget,

2:09:51.400 --> 2:09:54.000
<v Speaker 2>like again to Roger's previous point about you know us

2:09:54.040 --> 2:09:57.640
<v Speaker 2>sort of getting labeled and todd with this trophy hunter brush.

2:09:57.960 --> 2:10:02.920
<v Speaker 2>People you know, just imagine in their mind's eye a

2:10:02.960 --> 2:10:05.120
<v Speaker 2>bunch of kind of out of shape guys driving around

2:10:05.160 --> 2:10:09.560
<v Speaker 2>on a truck indiscriminately shooting animals. But Safari is so

2:10:09.760 --> 2:10:11.640
<v Speaker 2>much more than that, and it's exactly what you say.

2:10:11.680 --> 2:10:15.480
<v Speaker 2>It's that connection with those wild places. It's the it's

2:10:15.520 --> 2:10:18.280
<v Speaker 2>the adventure, It's it's the drama of it. I mean,

2:10:18.360 --> 2:10:23.400
<v Speaker 2>you know, hopefully not as dramatic as what Roger that's

2:10:23.400 --> 2:10:25.560
<v Speaker 2>the high drama. I like to keep things a little

2:10:25.560 --> 2:10:29.160
<v Speaker 2>more mellow, but you know, it's it's it's the drama.

2:10:29.200 --> 2:10:32.640
<v Speaker 2>It's the success, it's the failure. It's the sunrises, the sunsets,

2:10:32.680 --> 2:10:36.600
<v Speaker 2>it's the sounds, the I mean, you know, on the

2:10:36.680 --> 2:10:41.280
<v Speaker 2>last Safari I was on, we bumped into this giant python,

2:10:41.480 --> 2:10:43.880
<v Speaker 2>like thirteen foot long and as thick as my thigh,

2:10:44.240 --> 2:10:46.280
<v Speaker 2>and it was just it was so cool, you know,

2:10:46.360 --> 2:10:49.520
<v Speaker 2>we we just we talked about that around the campfire

2:10:49.520 --> 2:10:53.520
<v Speaker 2>and nothing got killed that day, you know, but we

2:10:53.560 --> 2:10:56.160
<v Speaker 2>sat around the campfire, we're just like, I mean, my

2:10:56.280 --> 2:10:58.760
<v Speaker 2>trackers stepped nearly stepped on its head and it's sort

2:10:58.760 --> 2:11:02.280
<v Speaker 2>of reared up, and it was it was incredible, And yeah,

2:11:02.320 --> 2:11:04.800
<v Speaker 2>we talked about it around the cap fire for hours

2:11:04.880 --> 2:11:06.480
<v Speaker 2>and it was just like one of those things where

2:11:06.520 --> 2:11:08.920
<v Speaker 2>you realize, like, that's Safari.

2:11:08.680 --> 2:11:11.160
<v Speaker 5>It's the escape as well. It's like a lot of

2:11:11.160 --> 2:11:13.280
<v Speaker 5>our clients say there's there's nowhere else in the world

2:11:13.280 --> 2:11:17.560
<v Speaker 5>that they truly just switch off from everything apart from

2:11:17.760 --> 2:11:19.720
<v Speaker 5>being out tracking buffalo.

2:11:20.080 --> 2:11:24.120
<v Speaker 6>In big wild spaces. That's it's hard to get that elsewhere.

2:11:25.520 --> 2:11:29.600
<v Speaker 6>I do have to ask you this one thing. It's

2:11:29.640 --> 2:11:32.200
<v Speaker 6>not nearly as romantic and fun of as of the

2:11:32.200 --> 2:11:36.040
<v Speaker 6>things we've been talking about, but what you have to

2:11:36.040 --> 2:11:39.960
<v Speaker 6>go through to be a professional hunter as it is

2:11:40.000 --> 2:11:44.400
<v Speaker 6>a profession, right, And then what is your response to

2:11:46.320 --> 2:11:49.760
<v Speaker 6>people in North America who casually respond to themselves or

2:11:49.920 --> 2:11:54.360
<v Speaker 6>refer to themselves rather as professional hunters.

2:11:54.360 --> 2:12:02.000
<v Speaker 2>It's a subtle dig at Steve Vanilla, this guy I

2:12:02.040 --> 2:12:02.600
<v Speaker 2>talk a lot.

2:12:02.840 --> 2:12:04.960
<v Speaker 4>It is recorded. I want you to find where I've

2:12:04.960 --> 2:12:05.640
<v Speaker 4>ever said.

2:12:05.440 --> 2:12:08.840
<v Speaker 2>That, No, I think other people have said it about you.

2:12:10.160 --> 2:12:15.480
<v Speaker 2>I'm being very facetious. It's it's it's a brotherhood. So

2:12:15.640 --> 2:12:19.200
<v Speaker 2>I'm not in the business of of kind of dunking

2:12:19.240 --> 2:12:22.480
<v Speaker 2>on other people talking, yeah, ship talking people that make

2:12:22.520 --> 2:12:28.440
<v Speaker 2>their living, you know, guiding, you know whatever, doing whatever

2:12:28.480 --> 2:12:30.720
<v Speaker 2>it is that they do that kind of allows them

2:12:30.760 --> 2:12:32.560
<v Speaker 2>to refer to themselves that way.

2:12:32.600 --> 2:12:36.080
<v Speaker 4>I had a professional shan Antler hunter around the podcast recently.

2:12:36.520 --> 2:12:40.120
<v Speaker 2>Really, that is that I'm gonna have to think about it.

2:12:41.040 --> 2:12:44.840
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to think it was as I'm gonna have

2:12:44.920 --> 2:12:46.640
<v Speaker 2>to think about that one for a while because I'm

2:12:46.680 --> 2:12:49.680
<v Speaker 2>still I'm still a little bit professional mushroom hunter.

2:12:49.840 --> 2:12:52.600
<v Speaker 5>I guess, yeah, you do enough of anything, you become

2:12:52.640 --> 2:12:55.200
<v Speaker 5>a professional for sure.

2:12:55.320 --> 2:12:57.680
<v Speaker 2>And I mean ours is our our industry has got

2:12:57.680 --> 2:13:00.720
<v Speaker 2>a little bit more of a sort of formal thing

2:13:00.800 --> 2:13:03.480
<v Speaker 2>to it. But there are guys that will look at

2:13:03.520 --> 2:13:06.600
<v Speaker 2>the kind of apprenticeship I've done, which some of it

2:13:06.640 --> 2:13:08.800
<v Speaker 2>has been like a little bit self taught. Others have

2:13:08.880 --> 2:13:13.560
<v Speaker 2>been really just following around you know these again incredible hunters.

2:13:13.600 --> 2:13:16.760
<v Speaker 2>And going back to you know, Roger's comment that his

2:13:16.800 --> 2:13:19.720
<v Speaker 2>brother chewed him out for not carrying his rifle. His

2:13:19.800 --> 2:13:23.200
<v Speaker 2>brother Derek was like an early mentor to me getting

2:13:23.240 --> 2:13:24.840
<v Speaker 2>into the business, and that was one of the first

2:13:24.840 --> 2:13:26.640
<v Speaker 2>things he ever said to me. He's like, listen, when

2:13:26.640 --> 2:13:28.640
<v Speaker 2>you get off the truck, doesn't matter if you're going

2:13:28.720 --> 2:13:30.440
<v Speaker 2>to take a piss or. You're going to go check

2:13:30.440 --> 2:13:32.800
<v Speaker 2>a water hole real quick, see if there's some tracks there.

2:13:33.200 --> 2:13:36.200
<v Speaker 2>Grab that rifle, put you know, put around in it.

2:13:36.520 --> 2:13:39.520
<v Speaker 2>And and that's that's the other thing. You always have

2:13:39.560 --> 2:13:41.920
<v Speaker 2>a loaded rifle. There's no point carrying your rifle around

2:13:41.960 --> 2:13:44.000
<v Speaker 2>of it doesn't have a bullet in the Yeah, this

2:13:44.000 --> 2:13:46.880
<v Speaker 2>this rule applies to the client as well, by the way,

2:13:46.920 --> 2:13:49.720
<v Speaker 2>But but stuff like that, you know, getting the opportunity

2:13:49.720 --> 2:13:52.320
<v Speaker 2>to sit with those guys, another guy, Danny McCallum, who's

2:13:52.360 --> 2:13:54.880
<v Speaker 2>one of the greats. You know, getting the opportunity to

2:13:54.920 --> 2:13:57.400
<v Speaker 2>sit down with Danny and just pick his brain about stuff,

2:13:58.480 --> 2:14:00.680
<v Speaker 2>you know, getting the opportunity to be on safari with

2:14:00.720 --> 2:14:02.880
<v Speaker 2>some of these you know, these top hunters. Was it

2:14:02.920 --> 2:14:05.320
<v Speaker 2>was a big deal for me. And then you know,

2:14:05.400 --> 2:14:08.040
<v Speaker 2>ultimately going through my exams and all the rest of it.

2:14:08.080 --> 2:14:09.280
<v Speaker 2>But I think.

2:14:10.200 --> 2:14:13.040
<v Speaker 6>Exams accreditation, Yeah.

2:14:12.680 --> 2:14:16.040
<v Speaker 2>There was a formal component to it that's against the Bible.

2:14:19.200 --> 2:14:22.080
<v Speaker 2>I mean, and I'm not necessarily anchoring it to that

2:14:22.120 --> 2:14:25.720
<v Speaker 2>there's a formal component to it for us, but yeah,

2:14:25.840 --> 2:14:27.360
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I think.

2:14:27.480 --> 2:14:30.240
<v Speaker 6>And then there's something where somebody adorns you with a

2:14:31.000 --> 2:14:34.120
<v Speaker 6>break action rifle, a double rifle of some sort, but.

2:14:36.840 --> 2:14:38.760
<v Speaker 4>You got to you got to carry it over your shoulder.

2:14:38.880 --> 2:14:40.720
<v Speaker 6>I was in the camp one time when a guy

2:14:40.800 --> 2:14:46.360
<v Speaker 6>was eyeballing me. I was guiding, and he said, uh,

2:14:46.880 --> 2:14:48.440
<v Speaker 6>when are you going to get rid of that bolt

2:14:48.560 --> 2:14:54.600
<v Speaker 6>trash and get yourself a real rifle, meaning a double rifle.

2:14:56.360 --> 2:14:59.320
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, it's definitely a very split camp in the professional

2:14:59.400 --> 2:15:02.120
<v Speaker 5>hunting world on bolt versus.

2:15:02.400 --> 2:15:05.560
<v Speaker 2>We're double men firmly in that you guys do the

2:15:05.880 --> 2:15:09.280
<v Speaker 2>little bit tradition, the big doubles. Yeah we do. We

2:15:09.360 --> 2:15:10.760
<v Speaker 2>both do, Yeah, Rogers.

2:15:10.840 --> 2:15:14.560
<v Speaker 5>But it's a question of is two shots better than

2:15:14.600 --> 2:15:18.280
<v Speaker 5>potentially three shots? Is what it comes down to. We

2:15:18.280 --> 2:15:20.600
<v Speaker 5>can get two shots so faster a bolt action guy

2:15:20.680 --> 2:15:22.000
<v Speaker 5>can maybe get the third.

2:15:22.160 --> 2:15:23.520
<v Speaker 6>You can miss twice real fast.

2:15:23.680 --> 2:15:26.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. One of my again, one of my mental might

2:15:26.680 --> 2:15:29.280
<v Speaker 2>have been. It might have been. Derek also said to me,

2:15:29.680 --> 2:15:32.760
<v Speaker 2>you know, when you're shooting that double rifle, if something

2:15:32.800 --> 2:15:35.920
<v Speaker 2>comes you know, by all means, when you first see it,

2:15:36.000 --> 2:15:39.120
<v Speaker 2>fire that first barrel, but hold on to that second

2:15:39.120 --> 2:15:41.840
<v Speaker 2>barrel until you can't miss till till the end of

2:15:41.840 --> 2:15:44.760
<v Speaker 2>there you're touching.

2:15:44.800 --> 2:15:47.000
<v Speaker 4>It's you know, I'm assuming both of you guys have

2:15:47.040 --> 2:15:48.040
<v Speaker 4>had to shoot charge and.

2:15:47.960 --> 2:15:51.200
<v Speaker 5>Stuff yep a few times.

2:15:51.520 --> 2:15:56.880
<v Speaker 2>Like every year, thing, every decade, it varies. I will

2:15:56.920 --> 2:16:02.280
<v Speaker 2>say this, A lot is made of the danger element

2:16:02.400 --> 2:16:05.560
<v Speaker 2>of what we do. And it's there, you know Roger's

2:16:05.600 --> 2:16:08.800
<v Speaker 2>situation as a classic example that had to gone differently.

2:16:09.800 --> 2:16:12.960
<v Speaker 2>You know, two little boys are growing up without a dad.

2:16:13.120 --> 2:16:16.040
<v Speaker 2>You know the dangers there, and we'll we'll put our

2:16:16.040 --> 2:16:19.720
<v Speaker 2>lives on on the line for our clients, like Roger demonstrated.

2:16:20.400 --> 2:16:25.960
<v Speaker 2>But I consider with with some exceptions, right, there's always

2:16:26.040 --> 2:16:29.240
<v Speaker 2>edge cases, but I generally consider a charge to be

2:16:29.360 --> 2:16:32.160
<v Speaker 2>the result of a screw up from either the professional

2:16:32.200 --> 2:16:33.080
<v Speaker 2>hunter or the client.

2:16:33.320 --> 2:16:35.680
<v Speaker 6>Well, that one game made a whole video series about

2:16:35.680 --> 2:16:38.440
<v Speaker 6>getting charged by everything in Africa over and over and

2:16:38.480 --> 2:16:39.000
<v Speaker 6>over again.

2:16:39.120 --> 2:16:42.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we we don't, we don't operate that way, and

2:16:42.360 --> 2:16:44.840
<v Speaker 2>I'll just leave it at that. But but I think

2:16:45.080 --> 2:16:47.800
<v Speaker 2>the bottom line for me is a charge is a

2:16:47.879 --> 2:16:52.320
<v Speaker 2>highly undesirable situation. The buffalo hunt or the lion hunt

2:16:52.440 --> 2:16:54.879
<v Speaker 2>or the leopard hunt that you will remember and that

2:16:55.000 --> 2:16:59.280
<v Speaker 2>will make you smile every time you think about it.

2:16:59.320 --> 2:17:01.720
<v Speaker 2>Is exactly like the deer hunt, the bear hunt, the

2:17:01.760 --> 2:17:03.920
<v Speaker 2>elk hunt. And that's the one where you make a

2:17:03.959 --> 2:17:06.480
<v Speaker 2>great stalk, you get close to your quarry and you

2:17:06.640 --> 2:17:10.840
<v Speaker 2>make a clean, you know, proper kill, proper shot that

2:17:10.879 --> 2:17:13.720
<v Speaker 2>results in a clean kill on that animal, and then

2:17:13.720 --> 2:17:16.959
<v Speaker 2>you're able to enjoy that that wonderful moment of sitting

2:17:16.959 --> 2:17:19.600
<v Speaker 2>there with your animal, whether it's a meat animal or

2:17:19.959 --> 2:17:23.360
<v Speaker 2>or a trophy animal or you know, obviously both in

2:17:23.680 --> 2:17:26.360
<v Speaker 2>ninety nine point nine percent of cases, and you and

2:17:26.400 --> 2:17:28.480
<v Speaker 2>you can just, you know, you can really enjoy that.

2:17:28.480 --> 2:17:30.440
<v Speaker 2>That is what you come to Africa for, not to

2:17:30.480 --> 2:17:31.400
<v Speaker 2>be attacked by things.

2:17:31.480 --> 2:17:34.120
<v Speaker 5>And the biggest part of the biggest part of our

2:17:34.120 --> 2:17:38.480
<v Speaker 5>apprenticeship is really teaching you how to not get yourself.

2:17:39.720 --> 2:17:43.000
<v Speaker 5>It's about teaching your caution and not just going, you know,

2:17:43.200 --> 2:17:44.840
<v Speaker 5>guns blazing into a situation.

2:17:44.879 --> 2:17:48.440
<v Speaker 4>Sure, I mean, I tell you, I you know, I've

2:17:48.440 --> 2:17:51.039
<v Speaker 4>always kind of wanted to I've always kind of wanted

2:17:51.080 --> 2:17:53.119
<v Speaker 4>to go to Africa, and we've even looked at it

2:17:53.560 --> 2:17:55.840
<v Speaker 4>when we were filming a lot of shows we've even

2:17:55.879 --> 2:17:57.800
<v Speaker 4>at times kicked it around.

2:17:58.800 --> 2:18:00.600
<v Speaker 2>But after having you guys doing, man, I want to

2:18:00.640 --> 2:18:03.000
<v Speaker 2>go so bad and hunt keep buffalo, make it happen.

2:18:04.360 --> 2:18:08.800
<v Speaker 2>Let's make it happen. It's I just want nothing like it.

2:18:08.800 --> 2:18:11.920
<v Speaker 2>It's just really different. It's really different to love to

2:18:12.000 --> 2:18:16.880
<v Speaker 2>check it out. Yeah, it's I think there's a reason why,

2:18:17.440 --> 2:18:20.600
<v Speaker 2>you know, Africas sort of held this place in people's

2:18:20.640 --> 2:18:24.240
<v Speaker 2>imaginations for a long time. And you know, obviously you

2:18:24.320 --> 2:18:26.720
<v Speaker 2>know there's that danger element and so on and so forth.

2:18:26.760 --> 2:18:28.920
<v Speaker 2>But again it goes back to my previous point about

2:18:29.280 --> 2:18:32.760
<v Speaker 2>all those things that make up Safari, like what Safari is,

2:18:33.040 --> 2:18:35.560
<v Speaker 2>that's what sticks with people. You guys really sold me

2:18:35.600 --> 2:18:39.720
<v Speaker 2>on the Tanzania deal too, because like the wilderness aspect, man, well, interest,

2:18:40.080 --> 2:18:43.720
<v Speaker 2>in my opinion, Tanzania is, you know, the greatest game

2:18:43.840 --> 2:18:46.640
<v Speaker 2>field left on Earth, you know. And I get that's

2:18:46.680 --> 2:18:49.680
<v Speaker 2>sort of a controversial thing to say. And I don't

2:18:49.720 --> 2:18:52.160
<v Speaker 2>mean to sort of start a comparison my body Matt

2:18:52.200 --> 2:18:58.959
<v Speaker 2>Cook's place. Yeah, yeah, I don't, and I don't mean

2:18:59.000 --> 2:19:02.000
<v Speaker 2>to like start up sort of pissing match, but well.

2:19:01.959 --> 2:19:05.920
<v Speaker 6>Species, how many species on the the.

2:19:06.440 --> 2:19:09.720
<v Speaker 5>Oh, well between between all different hunting areas. There's a

2:19:09.760 --> 2:19:13.560
<v Speaker 5>there's about thirty three different species of animals you can

2:19:14.000 --> 2:19:14.600
<v Speaker 5>game animal.

2:19:14.720 --> 2:19:19.200
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, out of one camp, how what's the variety of.

2:19:19.160 --> 2:19:22.920
<v Speaker 2>Probably twenty in any given Yeah.

2:19:22.959 --> 2:19:25.280
<v Speaker 4>But I'm not looking, man, I'm very I want to

2:19:25.320 --> 2:19:27.960
<v Speaker 4>be very targeted being I'm not looking to be like, oh,

2:19:27.959 --> 2:19:28.760
<v Speaker 4>that's what one of them is.

2:19:28.800 --> 2:19:29.560
<v Speaker 6>But there's no.

2:19:31.400 --> 2:19:34.119
<v Speaker 2>Want to be like, well, what's that? What's that?

2:19:34.160 --> 2:19:37.200
<v Speaker 4>Well there is, but they kind of sold me on Yeah,

2:19:37.640 --> 2:19:39.840
<v Speaker 4>they I don't know to put words your mouth, these

2:19:39.840 --> 2:19:42.640
<v Speaker 4>guys really like tracking those Kate buffalo and they kind

2:19:42.640 --> 2:19:44.640
<v Speaker 4>of sold me on that as being sort of like the.

2:19:44.840 --> 2:19:48.240
<v Speaker 6>And when you're on that, there's just less uh sight

2:19:48.280 --> 2:19:49.240
<v Speaker 6>seeing opportunity.

2:19:49.440 --> 2:19:52.640
<v Speaker 2>It consumes. But there you'll you'll bump into stuff that

2:19:53.200 --> 2:19:55.800
<v Speaker 2>you know, it'll be a particularly nice specimen or whatever.

2:19:55.840 --> 2:19:59.000
<v Speaker 2>While you're tracking buffalo or when you're heading back to

2:19:59.080 --> 2:20:02.280
<v Speaker 2>camp or whatever, you'll pins of stuff. And there's definitely species.

2:20:02.320 --> 2:20:04.959
<v Speaker 5>There's a list of species that are what we call

2:20:05.360 --> 2:20:08.600
<v Speaker 5>real hunts. So you're not just going to see one

2:20:09.240 --> 2:20:09.960
<v Speaker 5>driving around.

2:20:10.840 --> 2:20:13.960
<v Speaker 6>You know, I grew up guiding in eastern Montana for antelope,

2:20:14.400 --> 2:20:17.640
<v Speaker 6>and people got so distracted by all the other stuff

2:20:17.680 --> 2:20:20.360
<v Speaker 6>that you could do that, it became very challenging to

2:20:20.520 --> 2:20:23.480
<v Speaker 6>kill an antelope, which at the time was not hard

2:20:23.480 --> 2:20:26.400
<v Speaker 6>to do, but it was like, well, I want to

2:20:26.480 --> 2:20:29.080
<v Speaker 6>chase those birds or chase those rabbits or you know,

2:20:29.120 --> 2:20:32.240
<v Speaker 6>and all the distraction things. So I know that in

2:20:32.360 --> 2:20:34.320
<v Speaker 6>order to be successful, it's something you really have to.

2:20:36.840 --> 2:20:38.560
<v Speaker 6>If I were to go all the way to Africa,

2:20:38.920 --> 2:20:40.959
<v Speaker 6>I would also just want to be able to be like,

2:20:41.000 --> 2:20:43.160
<v Speaker 6>holy shit, there's that thing that I've only seen in

2:20:43.160 --> 2:20:44.800
<v Speaker 6>the book. Oh my god, look at that.

2:20:46.240 --> 2:20:49.680
<v Speaker 4>They said you will see lions and tracking the track

2:20:49.720 --> 2:20:51.080
<v Speaker 4>in the Buffalo.

2:20:50.720 --> 2:20:53.359
<v Speaker 5>Quite often there, we'll say tracking the belt, you will.

2:20:53.160 --> 2:20:58.000
<v Speaker 4>See lions, you'll see elephants, you'll see war hogs, all

2:20:58.000 --> 2:20:58.600
<v Speaker 4>this kind of junk.

2:20:58.680 --> 2:20:58.760
<v Speaker 3>Man.

2:20:58.840 --> 2:21:00.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you'll see it. You'll just see it around. I mean,

2:21:00.879 --> 2:21:02.720
<v Speaker 2>when you're driving around in the area, you'll see it.

2:21:02.760 --> 2:21:05.840
<v Speaker 2>And man, some of those animals are good to eat. Yeah,

2:21:06.160 --> 2:21:08.119
<v Speaker 2>but it's a really it also sounds like a track,

2:21:08.160 --> 2:21:09.840
<v Speaker 2>and it sounds like a real grind. You put some

2:21:09.879 --> 2:21:10.760
<v Speaker 2>big miles.

2:21:10.440 --> 2:21:13.720
<v Speaker 6>On it, the track sounds phenomenal, Like you guys do.

2:21:13.800 --> 2:21:14.400
<v Speaker 2>Some ten miles.

2:21:14.480 --> 2:21:16.520
<v Speaker 4>You guys do some ten mile sessions easily.

2:21:16.800 --> 2:21:20.320
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, easily, and it will be seven to ten miles.

2:21:20.080 --> 2:21:24.119
<v Speaker 2>And that ulfalo, you know, snorting at you, I can't

2:21:24.120 --> 2:21:24.760
<v Speaker 2>even see it.

2:21:25.520 --> 2:21:29.240
<v Speaker 6>You consistently have the clientele that is willing to show

2:21:29.320 --> 2:21:31.000
<v Speaker 6>up and walk seven to ten miles a day.

2:21:32.000 --> 2:21:33.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we tell them.

2:21:33.120 --> 2:21:36.439
<v Speaker 5>I mean you have to judge the client and sometimes,

2:21:36.640 --> 2:21:39.320
<v Speaker 5>you know, I've had a eighty three year old on

2:21:39.440 --> 2:21:42.800
<v Speaker 5>safari and it reaches a stage where you've just got

2:21:42.840 --> 2:21:43.320
<v Speaker 5>to cool it.

2:21:43.440 --> 2:21:44.400
<v Speaker 2>Just different, itinerary.

2:21:44.480 --> 2:21:46.360
<v Speaker 10>But yeah, you always bring the bag of em and

2:21:46.480 --> 2:21:48.000
<v Speaker 10>M's right, yeah exactly.

2:21:47.600 --> 2:21:48.840
<v Speaker 5>I always have.

2:21:50.520 --> 2:21:53.240
<v Speaker 2>Already. Yeah, I could have bought those at home.

2:21:55.040 --> 2:21:56.000
<v Speaker 5>The cliff bars, there are.

2:21:57.480 --> 2:22:01.080
<v Speaker 2>Some source of energy. Yeah, yeah, it's I mean, you know,

2:22:01.640 --> 2:22:05.680
<v Speaker 2>every buffalo hunt's different. But I think Roger and I

2:22:05.680 --> 2:22:07.959
<v Speaker 2>feel the same way as like as probably you guys do.

2:22:08.440 --> 2:22:11.520
<v Speaker 2>The you're driving down the track and there's one standing

2:22:11.520 --> 2:22:13.280
<v Speaker 2>off to the side of the road, even if it's

2:22:13.280 --> 2:22:18.800
<v Speaker 2>a real big one, it's like, you got to track them.

2:22:18.879 --> 2:22:20.520
<v Speaker 2>You've got to track them. It's got to be proper,

2:22:20.560 --> 2:22:23.280
<v Speaker 2>it's got to be done right. There's no and there

2:22:23.360 --> 2:22:25.120
<v Speaker 2>is hardly ever an easy buffon.

2:22:25.480 --> 2:22:27.920
<v Speaker 5>And that's what's so beautiful about them is it's it's

2:22:27.920 --> 2:22:31.720
<v Speaker 5>always an adventure, and I don't know. I always people say,

2:22:31.720 --> 2:22:35.440
<v Speaker 5>how could you liken it to hunting in North America?

2:22:36.320 --> 2:22:39.320
<v Speaker 5>And I think from what I hear, I think elk

2:22:39.360 --> 2:22:42.480
<v Speaker 5>hunting is probably the nearest thing. But they're not in

2:22:42.520 --> 2:22:46.640
<v Speaker 5>a huge danger element of adrenaline and excitement on top

2:22:46.720 --> 2:22:49.840
<v Speaker 5>of it being a huge challenge in a beautiful wilderness.

2:22:50.080 --> 2:22:52.640
<v Speaker 2>And what's what's tipped horn tip? The horn tip size

2:22:52.640 --> 2:22:55.120
<v Speaker 2>on those things, well, it varies.

2:22:55.240 --> 2:22:57.959
<v Speaker 5>It can vary from as wide as its head like

2:22:58.000 --> 2:23:01.400
<v Speaker 5>the one that hit me to forty five inches.

2:23:02.080 --> 2:23:02.320
<v Speaker 10>Wow.

2:23:02.959 --> 2:23:06.160
<v Speaker 2>For us, the trophy is an old one. Your trophies

2:23:06.160 --> 2:23:10.600
<v Speaker 2>a nali one, the gnaria the better. Like if I

2:23:10.600 --> 2:23:12.560
<v Speaker 2>if I could only shoot one buffalo in my life

2:23:12.600 --> 2:23:14.680
<v Speaker 2>and it was like that one that got rodged with,

2:23:17.000 --> 2:23:19.960
<v Speaker 2>I'd be psyched. I'd be happy to have that on

2:23:20.000 --> 2:23:22.000
<v Speaker 2>my wall. I'd be absolutely thrilled.

2:23:22.080 --> 2:23:24.320
<v Speaker 6>Little chunk of Rogers collar bone.

2:23:24.120 --> 2:23:29.560
<v Speaker 2>Stuff, that's an added bonus. But yeah, that you know,

2:23:29.680 --> 2:23:32.920
<v Speaker 2>a trophy is in the kind of the eye of

2:23:32.920 --> 2:23:36.760
<v Speaker 2>the beholder, you know, as long as it's old. I mean,

2:23:37.120 --> 2:23:39.520
<v Speaker 2>I've shot some buffalo that's horns are barely as white

2:23:39.560 --> 2:23:43.280
<v Speaker 2>as there is. But I was yeah, or or just

2:23:43.360 --> 2:23:46.120
<v Speaker 2>he was small. He's just a small buffalo, just like

2:23:46.120 --> 2:23:48.080
<v Speaker 2>you get a small elk, Like you're just a small buffalo,

2:23:48.120 --> 2:23:50.160
<v Speaker 2>never going to get any bigger. That's just how it

2:23:50.320 --> 2:23:51.520
<v Speaker 2>was how he was made.

2:23:51.800 --> 2:23:55.240
<v Speaker 5>Rick By started this award they called the Dugger Boy Award,

2:23:55.320 --> 2:23:59.080
<v Speaker 5>which in my opinion is probably the best hunting award

2:23:59.080 --> 2:24:03.120
<v Speaker 5>that I've ever heard of. And the criteria of how

2:24:03.160 --> 2:24:06.240
<v Speaker 5>they judge it is not based on the size of

2:24:06.280 --> 2:24:10.119
<v Speaker 5>the animal. It's it's all about the age and how

2:24:10.160 --> 2:24:13.240
<v Speaker 5>hard a hunt. It was like four or five factors,

2:24:13.240 --> 2:24:15.920
<v Speaker 5>but it's nothing to do with the the inches. It

2:24:16.000 --> 2:24:18.800
<v Speaker 5>is just to do with age and how physical or

2:24:18.800 --> 2:24:22.439
<v Speaker 5>difficult it was to achieve. So what made it so memorable?

2:24:23.520 --> 2:24:26.120
<v Speaker 5>And it's Yeah, it's amazing. I think it's a great idea.

2:24:27.320 --> 2:24:30.240
<v Speaker 2>Guy should get a high score. I'm hoping it's his

2:24:30.320 --> 2:24:35.480
<v Speaker 2>only chance. His dad's a judge, so the only way

2:24:35.560 --> 2:24:39.480
<v Speaker 2>for him to win is getting that one. I think

2:24:39.560 --> 2:24:40.320
<v Speaker 2>I think you can go with.

2:24:41.320 --> 2:24:42.119
<v Speaker 5>Case with that one.

2:24:42.240 --> 2:24:47.039
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think if I was Africa, how would hire

2:24:47.080 --> 2:24:48.160
<v Speaker 2>you guys to go around?

2:24:48.560 --> 2:24:48.640
<v Speaker 5>Like?

2:24:48.760 --> 2:24:55.960
<v Speaker 2>Given the spiel? Well, Americans, I mean, we will talk

2:24:56.040 --> 2:24:59.080
<v Speaker 2>to anyone who listen about what we do because we

2:24:59.280 --> 2:25:02.960
<v Speaker 2>I would say, a from the privilege of getting to

2:25:03.320 --> 2:25:06.240
<v Speaker 2>do what I do and be with those trackers, be

2:25:06.400 --> 2:25:10.560
<v Speaker 2>with those like minded people, your clients, some phenomenal clients

2:25:10.560 --> 2:25:13.920
<v Speaker 2>over the years that I would say my mission if

2:25:13.959 --> 2:25:16.320
<v Speaker 2>I had to like define it, and I know, like

2:25:16.400 --> 2:25:18.959
<v Speaker 2>it's a sort of it's very American thing to like

2:25:19.000 --> 2:25:20.880
<v Speaker 2>talk about your mission, but I'm going I'm gonna get

2:25:20.879 --> 2:25:23.240
<v Speaker 2>on board with that. And my mission, I would say,

2:25:23.320 --> 2:25:28.240
<v Speaker 2>is to change people's perception of what our industry is about,

2:25:28.480 --> 2:25:31.320
<v Speaker 2>because I think we've we've labored under we've sort of

2:25:31.360 --> 2:25:36.160
<v Speaker 2>had this albatross around our neck of like like edge cases,

2:25:36.640 --> 2:25:38.440
<v Speaker 2>like people like to focus I think it's like a

2:25:38.520 --> 2:25:41.240
<v Speaker 2>human nature thing. People like to focus on like edge

2:25:41.280 --> 2:25:44.000
<v Speaker 2>cases and use them as an example of why a

2:25:44.160 --> 2:25:49.440
<v Speaker 2>whole system is just irreparably like not gonna work. I

2:25:49.520 --> 2:25:51.200
<v Speaker 2>do that every day, Yeah, I mean we all do.

2:25:51.320 --> 2:25:53.800
<v Speaker 2>It's like it's like an easy it's an easy path

2:25:53.840 --> 2:25:59.600
<v Speaker 2>to go down, but inspier Ball a famous el go

2:26:00.080 --> 2:26:03.480
<v Speaker 2>from there to whatever. Yeah, But for us, you know,

2:26:03.680 --> 2:26:08.920
<v Speaker 2>I think our industry, we can honestly say that wildlife

2:26:09.120 --> 2:26:13.160
<v Speaker 2>in Tanzania is better off for it than without it,

2:26:13.640 --> 2:26:16.080
<v Speaker 2>and that's all that's going to come down to soon

2:26:16.160 --> 2:26:18.480
<v Speaker 2>with all you know, all the pressure that's coming from

2:26:18.520 --> 2:26:21.160
<v Speaker 2>population growth and everything else, it's going to be just

2:26:21.200 --> 2:26:21.880
<v Speaker 2>come down to that.

2:26:23.560 --> 2:26:26.800
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, And it's a passion like for us, it's it's

2:26:26.920 --> 2:26:29.760
<v Speaker 5>really none of us are in it as. You don't

2:26:29.800 --> 2:26:32.080
<v Speaker 5>sign up to be a professional hunter to make a

2:26:32.080 --> 2:26:34.959
<v Speaker 5>lot of money. You do it because you care about

2:26:35.360 --> 2:26:38.000
<v Speaker 5>these wilderness areas. I mean, we've got areas that we've

2:26:38.560 --> 2:26:42.720
<v Speaker 5>taken care of for forty five years and you know,

2:26:42.520 --> 2:26:46.600
<v Speaker 5>you have a bond with these places that is second

2:26:46.680 --> 2:26:49.680
<v Speaker 5>to nothing, and a lot of it. You know, you

2:26:49.680 --> 2:26:51.720
<v Speaker 5>can tell we're both pretty passionate about it. But it's

2:26:51.840 --> 2:26:54.840
<v Speaker 5>it's our responsibility to try and educate people on some

2:26:54.920 --> 2:26:58.080
<v Speaker 5>of the realities in Africa, what it's like on the

2:26:58.120 --> 2:27:01.400
<v Speaker 5>ground that you might not realize living somewhere in the

2:27:01.520 --> 2:27:02.640
<v Speaker 5>United States, for example.

2:27:02.800 --> 2:27:03.959
<v Speaker 2>You guys do a good job of it.

2:27:04.280 --> 2:27:06.560
<v Speaker 4>I'm gonna start to go fund me be called Steve

2:27:06.600 --> 2:27:09.800
<v Speaker 4>Goes Hunt in Africa. Then, you know, I wish we

2:27:09.800 --> 2:27:11.800
<v Speaker 4>were playing trivia because I bet we beat you guys bad,

2:27:11.840 --> 2:27:12.800
<v Speaker 4>because you wouldn't know all the.

2:27:12.720 --> 2:27:16.200
<v Speaker 2>Americas North America thrash US if a.

2:27:16.120 --> 2:27:18.640
<v Speaker 4>Trivia show right now and a lot of them like

2:27:18.680 --> 2:27:19.520
<v Speaker 4>what river.

2:27:22.920 --> 2:27:26.119
<v Speaker 2>You guys, so we get we get.

2:27:27.160 --> 2:27:29.400
<v Speaker 6>I mean if there was a question of like name

2:27:29.480 --> 2:27:33.480
<v Speaker 6>these five antelope species and I'd be like, oh boy.

2:27:33.040 --> 2:27:34.800
<v Speaker 2>We might have to go.

2:27:35.120 --> 2:27:37.760
<v Speaker 4>It makes me realize how American our trivia game is

2:27:38.640 --> 2:27:40.600
<v Speaker 4>very American bad.

2:27:41.040 --> 2:27:41.800
<v Speaker 2>That makes sense.

2:27:42.000 --> 2:27:44.520
<v Speaker 4>But we're gonna you know what, we're launching our trivia,

2:27:45.280 --> 2:27:47.200
<v Speaker 4>our trivia, We're launching a trivia board game.

2:27:47.920 --> 2:27:49.840
<v Speaker 2>Nice and see.

2:27:49.640 --> 2:27:51.400
<v Speaker 4>Here's the long Let me give you a little insight

2:27:51.440 --> 2:27:54.080
<v Speaker 4>into the into board the board game world. What you

2:27:54.120 --> 2:27:57.240
<v Speaker 4>do is you launch board game and then you and

2:27:57.280 --> 2:28:03.039
<v Speaker 4>then every year you have actual expansion pack. So like

2:28:03.080 --> 2:28:06.360
<v Speaker 4>we can't decide if our first expansion expansion pack would

2:28:06.360 --> 2:28:10.680
<v Speaker 4>be like the White Tail expansion pack, the Waterfoul expansion pack.

2:28:11.840 --> 2:28:14.119
<v Speaker 4>We'll consult with you guys down the road and we'll

2:28:14.120 --> 2:28:16.920
<v Speaker 4>do the Safari Expansion pack or whatever that word is

2:28:16.959 --> 2:28:21.720
<v Speaker 4>you had, yeah, Kuinda, And then people that have like

2:28:21.760 --> 2:28:26.560
<v Speaker 4>a little have some curiosity about African big game could

2:28:26.600 --> 2:28:29.039
<v Speaker 4>buy that expansion pack and it'd be like they could

2:28:29.120 --> 2:28:30.640
<v Speaker 4>mix it in and they have all these questions like

2:28:30.720 --> 2:28:31.640
<v Speaker 4>what you're talking about.

2:28:31.640 --> 2:28:33.879
<v Speaker 2>And then we'll come back on and do trivia and

2:28:33.920 --> 2:28:36.720
<v Speaker 2>it'll be will be a little more even.

2:28:37.040 --> 2:28:40.039
<v Speaker 4>If we drop from that deck. Another expansion pack we

2:28:40.120 --> 2:28:44.960
<v Speaker 4>talked about was like mountain Men and Frontiersman expansion pack.

2:28:45.040 --> 2:28:47.400
<v Speaker 4>But I don't know, if you come up with enough questions.

2:28:47.120 --> 2:28:49.960
<v Speaker 2>We can throw in some cool stuff about like some

2:28:50.000 --> 2:28:52.120
<v Speaker 2>of those early Africa guys like this guy F. C.

2:28:52.280 --> 2:28:55.720
<v Speaker 2>Salou for example, just to just a wild man, just

2:28:55.760 --> 2:28:58.840
<v Speaker 2>to have that no Americans give. Yeah, but some American

2:28:58.879 --> 2:29:00.960
<v Speaker 2>I mean again, if they've read, if they've read about

2:29:01.000 --> 2:29:03.920
<v Speaker 2>the Roosevelt Safari, they'll know who F. C. Salu is.

2:29:04.320 --> 2:29:06.959
<v Speaker 2>Really Yeah, they'll know that guy's name, and they should.

2:29:07.080 --> 2:29:07.920
<v Speaker 2>Everyone should.

2:29:08.360 --> 2:29:13.280
<v Speaker 4>I got one last question, pith helmets mandatory.

2:29:14.240 --> 2:29:16.320
<v Speaker 2>Anymore? Definitely not.

2:29:18.240 --> 2:29:21.680
<v Speaker 5>I have had one client get off a carelem plane

2:29:22.120 --> 2:29:26.880
<v Speaker 5>with his socks pulled up, his hunting jacket and that

2:29:27.240 --> 2:29:29.120
<v Speaker 5>he was a writer, to be fair, so he was

2:29:29.200 --> 2:29:32.879
<v Speaker 5>trying to recreate this feel he wanted to feel it

2:29:32.920 --> 2:29:34.000
<v Speaker 5>from the beginning.

2:29:33.600 --> 2:29:39.560
<v Speaker 2>To hes a method writer. I dig it, I honestly

2:29:39.600 --> 2:29:41.360
<v Speaker 2>I did. I've got a lot of admiration for that

2:29:41.400 --> 2:29:43.679
<v Speaker 2>guy that that takes balls.

2:29:44.520 --> 2:29:48.320
<v Speaker 7>Launch instead of like a regular trucker cap We should

2:29:48.560 --> 2:29:48.879
<v Speaker 7>have a.

2:29:51.440 --> 2:29:54.200
<v Speaker 2>Some of the Zimbarbiean professional hunters laugh at me for

2:29:54.240 --> 2:29:57.120
<v Speaker 2>wearing boots. So I think a pith helmet is going

2:29:57.200 --> 2:30:02.080
<v Speaker 2>to be like a non starter. Well, I'll look it

2:30:02.160 --> 2:30:02.520
<v Speaker 2>up later.

2:30:02.600 --> 2:30:04.760
<v Speaker 4>Still, I'm not quite clear of why they wore them.

2:30:05.040 --> 2:30:05.800
<v Speaker 4>Was that sun protection?

2:30:06.800 --> 2:30:07.720
<v Speaker 5>Shade?

2:30:08.360 --> 2:30:11.120
<v Speaker 2>Sun protection? I don't think it's gonna stop a bullet?

2:30:11.520 --> 2:30:16.280
<v Speaker 4>No, No, all right, Robin Hurt Safaris, that's the place.

2:30:18.160 --> 2:30:22.800
<v Speaker 4>Don't call down there until I get my situation squared away.

2:30:23.200 --> 2:30:25.039
<v Speaker 2>Have a thing on the web to just shut the

2:30:25.040 --> 2:30:27.480
<v Speaker 2>website down. Yeah, just a few days until I get

2:30:27.520 --> 2:30:29.960
<v Speaker 2>my situations will and we will hold something for you.

2:30:30.040 --> 2:30:31.959
<v Speaker 2>We'll hold something for you, dude, I want to go

2:30:32.080 --> 2:30:35.040
<v Speaker 2>so bad. Man. All right, what are you thinking? Phil?

2:30:35.120 --> 2:30:35.360
<v Speaker 5>You in?

2:30:36.720 --> 2:30:39.680
<v Speaker 2>Is this my official invite? Well, let's even get that

2:30:39.800 --> 2:30:44.000
<v Speaker 2>editing pulled together. Turn it around on the Edits all

2:30:44.040 --> 2:30:46.720
<v Speaker 2>depends on how the next couple of weeks go. It sounds. Yeah,

2:30:47.440 --> 2:30:49.160
<v Speaker 2>all right, guys, thanks so much for coming on. Man,

2:30:49.160 --> 2:30:50.240
<v Speaker 2>this is great, Thanks.

2:30:50.120 --> 2:30:50.840
<v Speaker 5>Thanks for having us.

2:30:50.920 --> 2:31:00.640
<v Speaker 9>Yeah, go on.

2:31:02.760 --> 2:31:09.560
<v Speaker 4>On the seal Brey, shine like silver in the sun.

2:31:13.400 --> 2:31:22.520
<v Speaker 9>Ride, Ride, Ride on along, sweetheart. We're done.

2:31:22.720 --> 2:31:27.280
<v Speaker 2>Beat this damn horse to death. Taking a new one.

2:31:28.280 --> 2:31:34.280
<v Speaker 2>Ride away. We're done beat this damn

2:31:34.600 --> 2:31:40.679
<v Speaker 4>Horse today, so take your new one and ride on.