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Speaker 1: Hey guys, it's Brody Henderson. You probably know me from

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Speaker 1: kicking Stey's butt on Meet Eater's trivia show. When I'm

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Speaker 1: not doing that, I'm part of the Mediatter publishing team

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Speaker 1: and stoke to announce that our new book, Catch a Crayfish,

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Speaker 1: Count the Stars, Fun, Project Skills and Adventures for Outdoor

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Speaker 1: Kids is coming out June thirteenth. It's Media's first book

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Speaker 1: for kids, and it's chuck full of activities and adventures

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Speaker 1: that will help build serious outdoor skills start them young

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Speaker 1: by teaching them how to build a wildlife, viewing blind,

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Speaker 1: giga bull frog, and navigate through the wilderness. They'll also

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Speaker 1: learn how to forage and grow their own food, build

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Speaker 1: emergency shelters, hunt for fossils, gutfish, track animals, and much more.

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Speaker 1: To celebrate the release of the book, Steve will be

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Speaker 1: heading out on a little Book tour from June sixteenth

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Speaker 1: to June twenty fifth, and he'll be signing copies of

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Speaker 1: the books at Shields stores in Billings, Montana, Minneapolis, Minnesota, Omaha, Nebraska,

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Speaker 1: Kansas City, Missouri, Dallas, Texas, Colorado Springs, Colorado, out Johnstown, Colorado,

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Speaker 1: and Sandy Utah. Catch a Crayfish. Count the Stars is

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Speaker 1: a must have book for any parent or caregiver who

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Speaker 1: wants to get their kids off the couch and off

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Speaker 1: their screens over those long summer days. It also includes

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Speaker 1: activities for all different kinds of weather that'll keep them

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Speaker 1: busy throughout the year. Visit the meateater dot com for

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Speaker 1: tickets and we'll see you at Shields.

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Speaker 2: If this is the mea Eater podcast coming at you shirtless.

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Speaker 3: Severely, bug bitten, and in my case, underwear listening podcast.

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Speaker 4: You can't predict anything presented by First Light, creating proven

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Speaker 4: versatile hunting apparel from Marino bass layers to technical outerwear.

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Speaker 4: For every hunt, First Light, Go farther, stay longer. All right, Borry,

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Speaker 4: the Tanzanians are here when you guys, That's what I

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Speaker 4: was telling my kids, and you guys came off for dinner.

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Speaker 2: I said, the Tanzanians are coming to night. They didn't

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Speaker 2: know what that meant.

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Speaker 4: And then but you're Australian when you were born in Tanzania,

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Speaker 4: I was really misleading by kids a little.

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Speaker 5: Bit nearer than Morgan.

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Speaker 2: He's a little closer than me.

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Speaker 4: Okay, Morgan, So walk me through how you became to

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Speaker 4: be came to be a Tanzanian.

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Speaker 2: Yeah in Montana. Yeah, yeah, Well it's kind of a

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Speaker 2: long story. And I guess if Roger's the sort of

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Speaker 2: the pedigree, the kind of thoroughbred, I'm like the mongrel,

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Speaker 2: so I, you know, African hunting was something that I

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Speaker 2: grew up with. My grandfather was an African hunter, not

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Speaker 2: a professional, you know, as a client. He'd go over

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Speaker 2: there in the sixties and seventies. He did a number

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Speaker 2: of Safaris and I always I was passionate about hunting

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Speaker 2: and I got that from him. And now the farmhouse

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Speaker 2: where we kind of lived had a lot of his trophies,

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Speaker 2: a lot of his pictures, a lot of stuff, kind

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Speaker 2: of memorabilia from Africa. So it was just kind of

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Speaker 2: always like under my skin, I guess, and I think,

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Speaker 2: like a lot of people, I sort of hit this

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Speaker 2: period in my early twenties where I was like, what

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Speaker 2: am I going to do with my life? You know,

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Speaker 2: odd jobs here and there aren't cutting it, didn't go

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Speaker 2: to college, and I kind of thought about, you know,

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Speaker 2: taking hunting as a profession further. And I went up

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Speaker 2: to this place in Northern Australia, met a guy that

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Speaker 2: was hunting water buffalo up there. There's these free range

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Speaker 2: Asian water buffalo Northern Australia, like thousands of them. They

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Speaker 2: had this colony that they tried to establish up there,

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Speaker 2: and they realized they couldn't use British breeds of cattle,

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Speaker 2: so they brought these water buffalo as like beasts of

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Speaker 2: burden and meat animals, and the colony ended up failing

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Speaker 2: and they just kind of opened the corrals and were

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Speaker 2: like off, you know, get out of here. Came back

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Speaker 2: like I think it was seventy years later and there

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Speaker 2: was like twenty thousand at the things.

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Speaker 4: So I got a few friends that from here that

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Speaker 4: have gone there to do that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's awesome.

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Speaker 6: Oh yeah, No, I just have have always had a

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Speaker 6: high fascination with.

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Speaker 2: Those moldern water buffalo.

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Speaker 6: Yeah. And maybe it's the like crocodile dundee, which is

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Speaker 6: probably like a horrible reference for you.

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Speaker 2: But it's it's a tough one.

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Speaker 4: They don't put those in Crocodile Dundee.

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Speaker 2: I forgot about that. Yeah, that that ball that was

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Speaker 2: in that movie is super famous. It's like mounted in

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Speaker 2: a bar down there. It's actually it was like a eunuch,

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Speaker 2: like I don't know what the right term is like

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Speaker 2: that that specific animal unit. He'd be a yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I guess, or a bullock. Is that? The other time

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Speaker 2: it was no, no, no, it was castrated and that's why

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Speaker 2: it has those massive horns like oh no.

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Speaker 4: No, no, castrated, No castrated ox is there you go

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Speaker 4: it's an Yeah, it's strated.

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Speaker 2: An adult castrated ball. Yeah, is an ox. Yeah it

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Speaker 2: was an ox. Hence the enormous kind of spread on

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Speaker 2: those on those horns. But yeah, they're a fascinating species

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Speaker 2: in there. They're they're pretty different from African buffalo. But really,

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Speaker 2: I mean it's an incredible area of wilderness where you

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Speaker 2: go hunt them. It's They're impressive for sure. So I

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Speaker 2: went up there. I kind of got got hired for

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Speaker 2: that to really see, and I guess for me it

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Speaker 2: was about seeing if I could be a guide, and

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Speaker 2: I think I did all right despite my sort of

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Speaker 2: youth and inexperience. And then this guy came out to

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Speaker 2: make a movie about all the species of buffalo you

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Speaker 2: can still hunt in the world. How that movie do?

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Speaker 6: Ah?

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Speaker 2: I think it did? Okay, it was It's well, I

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Speaker 2: was called buffalo hunters, but it was It was a

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Speaker 2: German production, and I think the Germans have a different,

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Speaker 2: different vibe around there. There was a lot of like

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Speaker 2: recreates and I'm a terrible actor. Let me just give

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Speaker 2: you that, like it just heads up right now, hold

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Speaker 2: that against you, oh man, And so like, I had

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Speaker 2: a tough one with the recreates. They sort of always

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Speaker 2: have that look where like, if someone films you hunting,

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Speaker 2: it looks like whatever looks normal. Maybe you're a little goofy,

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Speaker 2: but generally you look natural. But then if someone's like,

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Speaker 2: all right, walk back there and do that again, you

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Speaker 2: always look like an idiot.

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Speaker 4: I think, yeah, I'll give people a little heads up

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Speaker 4: for people at home if you're watching hunting shows and

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Speaker 4: you're looking for the recreates. Uh, if someone goes to

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Speaker 4: shoot something and you realize you're getting three or four

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Speaker 4: camera angles on.

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Speaker 2: It, it's not happening, like, oh, there's a camera game in

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Speaker 2: front of him, to the side of him. There was

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Speaker 2: there was a lot of There was a lot of that,

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Speaker 2: but it was cool. But the guy that made the

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Speaker 2: movie was a phenomenal hunter called Ryana yosh and his

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Speaker 2: day job was a professional hunter in Tanzania. So after

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Speaker 2: we got done with the movie, I followed him back

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Speaker 2: to Africa and was this what he taught me? But

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Speaker 2: was this what Roger? Was this one of you guys

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Speaker 2: say he used.

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Speaker 5: With us from time war time with you.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, people are gonna get people are gonna get Well,

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Speaker 4: this will all start making more sense to you people

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Speaker 4: at home.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it'll we'll we'll fill in the narrative here. But

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Speaker 2: I uh, and so I sort of came to I

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Speaker 2: came to Robin Hurt Safari's a little later on in

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Speaker 2: my career.

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Speaker 5: Uh.

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Speaker 2: Well, I guess I was thirty thirty three, thirty four

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Speaker 2: or something like that. And I've been doing this for

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Speaker 2: thirteen years now.

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Speaker 4: So did they have you just carrying water at first?

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Speaker 2: Whatnot? Did you get to jump right in? You know,

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Speaker 2: it was a lot of following and kind of you know,

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Speaker 2: Rhyana is one of these guys. I mean, I'm kind

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Speaker 2: of interested in your take on this because he was

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Speaker 2: one of the guys that I take. Yeah, well your

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Speaker 2: take on like what a genius hunter, like, if there's

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Speaker 2: like a genius hunter, if there's a level there? I

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Speaker 2: think so too, And like the way, well the way

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Speaker 2: I define it. I think it's the same. I read

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Speaker 2: an article about a math genius one time and he

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Speaker 2: was describing it as like, yeah, he has to work

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Speaker 2: hard and that's the ideal, but really generally like math

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Speaker 2: is just super easy for him and like makes it

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Speaker 2: look easy. And this guy Ryana Yosh to me, was

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Speaker 2: like that kind of hunter where he just he made

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Speaker 2: what everyone else had to really work out just look

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Speaker 2: easy when he was doing it. So I kind of

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Speaker 2: had had the opportunity to learn from him, which was

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Speaker 2: a big deal. And then a couple years later I

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Speaker 2: got my license, kind of went out on my own

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Speaker 2: for a bit. You did work for some other people. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: there was at that time there was a reshuffling of

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Speaker 2: hunting areas in Tanzania and kind of Ryina found himself

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Speaker 2: sort of you know, I guess caught caught out in

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Speaker 2: the in the open, not sure where he was going

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Speaker 2: to go next because his the outfit he was working

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Speaker 2: with kind of lost their area. So that sort of

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Speaker 2: put me in limbo as well. So I ended up

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Speaker 2: kind of doing doing a season in the salou kind

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Speaker 2: of with my own clients. That was really interesting and

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Speaker 2: it kind of happened early in my career, and I

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Speaker 2: learned a lot from that. It was kind of just

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Speaker 2: being on my own, not having anyone to really follow

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Speaker 2: around anymore. I learned a lot by by making mistakes,

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Speaker 2: to be honest, Oh, kind of kind of screwing up.

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Speaker 5: And it's the best way to learn.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it is. And I'm sure there's some former clients

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Speaker 2: of mine out there who might disagree with that, But yeah,

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Speaker 2: I like to think I came out of it, you know, better,

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Speaker 2: better at what I do. But it was it was tough,

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Speaker 2: It was interesting.

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Speaker 4: So how did how did you guys come to be

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Speaker 4: colleagues in.

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Speaker 2: Well, interestingly enough, Roger's older brother and I were kind

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Speaker 2: of I always I sort of. I mean, the name

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Speaker 2: Robin Hurt. If you're interested in African hunting, and particularly

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Speaker 2: the East African tradition, you're going to know that name

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Speaker 2: because Roger's dad is probably the most famous living African

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Speaker 2: professional hunter now, a guy who's literally had a license

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Speaker 2: for sixty years and came up in the Golden Age.

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Speaker 2: Really the kind of the second Golden Age, I like

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Speaker 2: to call it, kind of the resurgence of African hunting

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Speaker 2: after the second was Teddy Roosevelt, the first gold nage.

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Speaker 2: Roosevelt was the first Golden Age in my view, Well.

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Speaker 4: You could hemingway it was the second Golden Age.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you could kind of argue that, like the guys

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Speaker 2: that kind of really explored Africa and the kind of

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Speaker 2: black Powder era were sort of I mean what they.

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Speaker 5: Saw even Livingstone.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, those guys exactly that whole vibe, so that those

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Speaker 2: guys really explored a totally untamed continent. But and Roger

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Speaker 2: and I always have this kind of back and forward

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Speaker 2: dialogue about if we could go back in time, like

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Speaker 2: when what era? And I always say that era in

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Speaker 2: Roger's like, oh, you would have died a malaria about it,

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Speaker 2: like you would have died of some tropical disease things

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Speaker 2: into your trip.

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Speaker 5: I think my dad basically started in the prime of

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Speaker 5: African hunting basically where it wasn't dangerous, but it was

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Speaker 5: still well dangerous from a medical point of view. You

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Speaker 5: weren't going to die of yellow fever or you know

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Speaker 5: all the other diseases. But the hunting was just phenomenal.

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Speaker 5: The wilderness was pristine. I mean, it was what you're

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Speaker 5: doing that was sixty years back.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, I'd say the fifties sixties or Hammingway Second

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Speaker 2: Golden Age? Did it anywhere ever? Hunt with your dad's outfit?

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Speaker 5: No, he didn't.

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Speaker 2: He had one guy. He had Philip Percival, who was

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Speaker 2: actually on the Roosevelt safari as a young man wow,

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Speaker 2: and was on Hemingway's guided Hemingway as an old man,

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Speaker 2: which is fascinating. So like guys like Perceval kind of bridged.

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Speaker 2: The two took took some time out to go fight

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Speaker 2: the First World War, you know, maybe some of them

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Speaker 2: some of them were involved in the Second World War two,

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Speaker 2: and then kind of like came back into.

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Speaker 4: The song the same dude. There's there's a dude that

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Speaker 4: guided Teddy Roosevelt on his big yeah, like it has

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Speaker 4: a big crazy museum collection. And then turned around and

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Speaker 4: also with Hemingway, Yep, Philip. If we liked better like

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Speaker 4: tr better man.

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Speaker 2: I think tr probably, I think Ta. Both of them

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Speaker 2: were marcho men right in my I like I guess

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Speaker 2: in my reading of them both they were kind of

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Speaker 2: like sort of tough guys.

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Speaker 5: But to have been part of that Roosevelt's sorry just

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Speaker 5: would have been an experience for lifetime and the people involved,

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Speaker 5: they had like a hundred porters.

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Speaker 6: I mean it was oh yeah, it was not a

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Speaker 6: small imprint.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. No. And the places they went, I mean they

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Speaker 2: went all over East Africa. I mean it's just incredible.

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Speaker 5: He would have had stories for a lifetime off that one.

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Speaker 6: Farry, Oh yeah, a small tangent. Have you ever read

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Speaker 6: West with the Night?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Beryl maas.

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Speaker 6: Beryl holy Cats. That's a great one.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, a good one. Beryl hard Call. Yeah.

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Speaker 6: And the female right female, Yeah, pilot and spotting big

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Speaker 6: tusked elephants out there. And I just don't hear that

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Speaker 6: book reference very often.

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Speaker 2: We had Roger.

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Speaker 5: I used to work with our company, used to be

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Speaker 5: our sort of main marketing man.

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Speaker 6: That awesome.

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Speaker 5: Beryl Markham's great grandsons.

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Speaker 2: Okay, a lot of it's all connected.

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Speaker 5: And ken or everyone's sort of connected it their day.

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Speaker 4: Krin I were talking about when I was telling her

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Speaker 4: originally about you, after we met, after you guys came

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Speaker 4: for dinner, I'll tell Krin about you, and we got

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Speaker 4: the I use the word convalescing, yes, And we're talking

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Speaker 4: about how no one uses the word convalescing. I said,

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Speaker 4: he's like convalescing. He's convalescing in the US. The snot

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Speaker 4: kicked out of him by Kate Buffalo. Yeah, I guess

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Speaker 4: that's have you been you're convalescing.

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Speaker 5: No, I've not used that exactly.

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Speaker 4: So we got to touch on a couple of things,

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Speaker 4: and then we're gonna come back and I want to

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Speaker 4: we're gonna talk about I want you to tell the

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Speaker 4: story getting by a Kate Buffalo.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, the impact to that who's still alive, he still lies,

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Speaker 5: still out that you didn't go try to find him. Oh,

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Speaker 5: I'm definitely gonna go.

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Speaker 4: Well, we'll get into that story because it's a good

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Speaker 4: story and and you'll you can explain how when you

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Speaker 4: see him, you'll know, Yeah, you'll recognize someone.

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Speaker 5: He's ingrained in my in my head.

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Speaker 2: He's got his head pretty much. Oh you know.

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Speaker 4: So here's here's the thing that happened that we covered.

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Speaker 4: We covered a guy he's something of a repeat offender

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Speaker 4: I believe, who was up in Jackson Hole, down in

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Speaker 4: Jackson Hole, wyhoelming shed hunting prior to shed season and

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Speaker 4: he got busted by a whelming fishing game. He had

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Speaker 4: been going out and uh like pre hunting.

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Speaker 2: Wasn't that right out of out of season?

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Speaker 4: He was pre hunting, making little stash piles and then

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Speaker 4: he'd make a little cash and then when season opened,

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Speaker 4: you just go in and pick up your cash. But

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Speaker 4: he was also in the field hacking chew toys, so

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Speaker 4: he was cutting his He was cutting elk antlers into

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Speaker 4: chew toys out in the field, probably for easier transport,

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Speaker 4: because you imagine, you imagine you take a big ass backpack.

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Speaker 4: I mean, once you whack him up, dude, you'd have

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Speaker 4: well just think.

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Speaker 6: This is like an old guide joke, but it is

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Speaker 6: repeated in many circles. You know, if you want me

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Speaker 6: to make that load easier on here, we just cut

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Speaker 6: those antlers off. You just lop off a couple of

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Speaker 6: these points and I'll pack a lot easier.

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Speaker 4: So this is someone rode in. They're like, hey, I

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Speaker 4: wanted to let you know about what happened with the

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Speaker 4: antlers that were confiscated Woming fishing game went out and

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Speaker 4: just put it, went out and strewed them. Is that

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Speaker 4: a word strewed? I know you can strew something something

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Speaker 4: strewn around.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, I think that's a past He's let's say I'm

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Speaker 7: gonna go out and strew around.

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Speaker 4: You didn't say that. Yeah, yesterday I went out and

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Speaker 4: strewed around some.

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Speaker 7: They littered the mountain broadcasts, so like the mountain, the

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Speaker 7: hillside was strewn with ye.

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Speaker 4: But yeah, I'm just gonna go. Strewed sounds like a soup,

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Speaker 4: a kind of soup you might make. I made some

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Speaker 4: strewed last night.

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Speaker 2: They went out and strewed around all the antlers back

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Speaker 2: out into the woods.

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Speaker 4: They redistributed them in the mountains so that people could

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Speaker 4: have the joy of finding them. But a guy sends

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Speaker 4: a picture in and they were out on opening day

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Speaker 4: picking them up, and they were and he in his

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Speaker 4: little gripping grin of him and all the stuff he

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Speaker 4: picked up that day, he has the chunks. They just

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Speaker 4: flicked the chunks around toys as well, so when opening

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Speaker 4: day came, you could wander around and you could.

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Speaker 2: Find It's like an Easter egg, like an Easter egg

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Speaker 2: hunt with antlers.

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Speaker 4: It's a great idea, but it's like, uh, here's part

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Speaker 4: of the problem. It's the same way that I wouldn't

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Speaker 4: want to shoot a deer with a collar on it,

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Speaker 4: because it would be that it had been touched, it

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Speaker 4: had been soiled by man. So people don't hold that

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Speaker 4: perspective as every time we talk about this, We talk

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Speaker 4: about how that perspective is not extended ducks, because getting

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Speaker 4: a banded duck is sweet, Getting a banded duck is great.

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Speaker 4: Getting a deer with a collar on it is not great.

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Speaker 4: I can't explain why. You just have to trust me.

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Speaker 4: So to go out shed hunting and pick up chew toys,

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Speaker 4: I would feel like there was I would feel that

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Speaker 4: it'd just be not as exciting.

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Speaker 2: To give you one intending to make a chew toy

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Speaker 2: with your shed. Ultimately you'd feel a little bit well,

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Speaker 2: a bit jipped.

347
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Speaker 4: Yeah, it'd be that it got picked up, it got

348
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Speaker 4: caught up, it got confiscated, it got put back out.

349
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Speaker 4: It would just feel like it wasn't like like, for instance,

350
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Speaker 4: if you are out hunting morels, it's it's sixty percent

351
00:17:53,359 --> 00:17:55,240
Speaker 4: it's forty percent that morels is good to eat and

352
00:17:55,280 --> 00:17:57,040
Speaker 4: sixty percent this fun to find morels.

353
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Speaker 2: Yeah, right, So if you went.

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Speaker 4: Out and found like morels that were just cut and

355
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Speaker 4: set out in a little box, different, it'd be like

356
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Speaker 4: it just be different.

357
00:18:07,359 --> 00:18:08,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, hallout of victory fish.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, some guys like.

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00:18:10,040 --> 00:18:12,760
Speaker 4: I found these, but I put them back out in

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Speaker 4: a box. And then you find them, you wouldn't feel

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00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:15,600
Speaker 4: like you found them ll.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I can see that it'd be that you.

363
00:18:18,320 --> 00:18:19,439
Speaker 2: I don't know, it just be different.

364
00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:21,800
Speaker 7: Could you conceive of it as like a separate thing,

365
00:18:22,040 --> 00:18:25,480
Speaker 7: Like there's the sheds that you might find, and then

366
00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:28,879
Speaker 7: there's oh, I got some free chew toys for my

367
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Speaker 7: dog that I don't have to buy the pet star

368
00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:30,680
Speaker 7: And if.

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Speaker 4: You're taking commercially, If you're taking commercially, there's still just that.

370
00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:37,719
Speaker 4: I'm just like, I don't I I would pick them up.

371
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Speaker 2: I'm all for it. I think it was a great idea.

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00:18:39,960 --> 00:18:42,199
Speaker 4: It was better than putting them in a It was

373
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Speaker 4: better than putting them in a in a fishing game,

374
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Speaker 4: auction garage somewhere like whatever, like better than all that

375
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Speaker 4: just just struck me as peculiar.

376
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Speaker 2: Oh you know what's uh, let me point this out.

377
00:18:56,840 --> 00:18:59,919
Speaker 6: So did you guys cover the fine and then the

378
00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:02,880
Speaker 6: failure to pay the first fine? No, this guy's deep

379
00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:06,200
Speaker 6: into it. Yeah, I mean he tell me his first round.

380
00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:10,280
Speaker 6: He's a Bosangelus cap too, that's where his OAP business

381
00:19:10,359 --> 00:19:13,639
Speaker 6: is based. But so he was ordered to pay a

382
00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:18,240
Speaker 6: ten thousand dollars fine the first time around and never

383
00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:22,680
Speaker 6: paid it, so that's why they tacked on. I think

384
00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:28,159
Speaker 6: ninety days a house arrest plus an additional fifteen K

385
00:19:28,280 --> 00:19:30,439
Speaker 6: and fines I think is what it came down to.

386
00:19:30,600 --> 00:19:35,400
Speaker 6: So pretty pretty steep. But yeah, I love the fact

387
00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:37,880
Speaker 6: they strewn about those antlers out there.

388
00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:41,320
Speaker 2: He'd have to say, I could pay my fine if

389
00:19:41,320 --> 00:19:44,800
Speaker 2: I can go get my antlers. Right, what do you

390
00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:47,320
Speaker 2: guys want the money?

391
00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:51,440
Speaker 4: Because that's that's where all my assets are tied.

392
00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:51,760
Speaker 2: Up right now.

393
00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:54,960
Speaker 6: I'm not exactly liquid.

394
00:19:56,080 --> 00:19:59,720
Speaker 2: I got the liquidity issue. I'm still wrapping my head

395
00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:01,719
Speaker 2: around the shed hunting thing, to be honest.

396
00:20:02,040 --> 00:20:03,920
Speaker 6: Oh yeah, I'm crazy.

397
00:20:04,119 --> 00:20:05,680
Speaker 2: Just how into it people are.

398
00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:09,720
Speaker 4: Well, you know why you don't understand it because in Africa,

399
00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:11,520
Speaker 4: you guys don't have any servants.

400
00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:14,960
Speaker 2: Nothing sheds, nothing sheds, nothing sheds. It's a good point.

401
00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:21,320
Speaker 5: It's fun when you find a dead skull. There's a

402
00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:22,159
Speaker 5: name for that too, is.

403
00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:25,520
Speaker 2: What skull shirt.

404
00:20:25,800 --> 00:20:27,960
Speaker 5: Yeah, you find a whole skull.

405
00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:30,399
Speaker 2: Like an old skull. Way of putting it.

406
00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:33,680
Speaker 5: I mean occasionally, like when you find a sixty five

407
00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:37,040
Speaker 5: inch koodoo that's been killed by a lion and it's

408
00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:38,640
Speaker 5: just such an impressive.

409
00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:40,200
Speaker 2: Head, And do you keep that kind of stuff.

410
00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:41,680
Speaker 5: Well, we put them in the camp. We're not allowed

411
00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:43,639
Speaker 5: to take them home or whatever, but we keep them

412
00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:47,439
Speaker 5: within the area. You definitely pick it up, so.

413
00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:49,919
Speaker 2: You just you redistribute him over to your camp. Yeah,

414
00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:52,119
Speaker 2: I think that should be our next T shirt.

415
00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:55,160
Speaker 6: Steve is dead head, but you know, obviously a play

416
00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:57,960
Speaker 6: on the Grateful Dead. You know they're a little dancing bears.

417
00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:05,240
Speaker 7: On how did we never think of that? I am

418
00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:08,840
Speaker 7: going to talk to anything's not going to Instagram.

419
00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:11,640
Speaker 4: The last genius idea we had. We made the stupid

420
00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:13,520
Speaker 4: mistake of checking and if fame wouldn't had it. But

421
00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:17,800
Speaker 4: everyone's had everything. Yeah, yeah, you really all your idea

422
00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:18,520
Speaker 4: has already been taking.

423
00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:20,760
Speaker 8: I brought up the shed head idea with those bears

424
00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:24,480
Speaker 8: when Denimanti was on the shed crazy guy, did you did?

425
00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:27,200
Speaker 8: No one remembers a thing that happens in this realm

426
00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:32,520
Speaker 8: Izuro servant.

427
00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:36,160
Speaker 6: Yeah that's yeah.

428
00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:42,280
Speaker 2: The Sahara there's one, there's not what is it, Bobbery,

429
00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:47,119
Speaker 2: No Barbary. They have a red stag where North Africa

430
00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:51,320
Speaker 2: from there. Yeah, I'm gonna say that there was, you know,

431
00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:54,800
Speaker 2: some kind of land bridge with Europe at some point.

432
00:21:55,640 --> 00:21:58,200
Speaker 2: I believe that for a second. Let's yeah, let's look

433
00:21:58,200 --> 00:21:58,520
Speaker 2: into it.

434
00:21:58,680 --> 00:21:59,639
Speaker 6: Barbary Stag.

435
00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:06,360
Speaker 4: On a recent episode, I went on, I was real

436
00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:10,240
Speaker 4: fired up about Gordon Lightfoot's death. Goy sent us this

437
00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:13,359
Speaker 4: great picture taken in July nineteen sixty one.

438
00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:14,960
Speaker 6: Native to North Africa.

439
00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:18,880
Speaker 2: Steve, there we go. I meant the other part.

440
00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:23,120
Speaker 6: Algeria to Tunisia and Morocco.

441
00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:26,760
Speaker 4: That's where my that's where my ancestors are from two

442
00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:30,400
Speaker 4: percent of them.

443
00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:32,919
Speaker 6: That's where you have that big flag and tattoo and stuff.

444
00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:38,400
Speaker 4: So I went on a big rip about Gordon Lightfoot

445
00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:39,960
Speaker 4: and the wreck of the Edvan Fitzgerald. And this dude

446
00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:43,920
Speaker 4: sent this great picture in taken in July nineteen sixty one.

447
00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:48,840
Speaker 4: His grandpa was on a car ferry in Duluth, Minnesota,

448
00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:52,160
Speaker 4: and he's got like his station wagon on a car

449
00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:57,440
Speaker 4: ferry and in the background, uh, there's the Edmond Fitzgerald

450
00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:03,080
Speaker 4: floating by. And he later wrote, and this guy carries

451
00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:05,000
Speaker 4: this the guy that wrote in carries his photo in

452
00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:13,280
Speaker 4: his wallet. He later wrote, built June eight, nineteen fifty eight,

453
00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:17,719
Speaker 4: or christened June eight, nineteen fifty eight, sunk November ten,

454
00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:24,760
Speaker 4: seventy five, brought up Gordon Lightfoot sink of the Edmund

455
00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:29,439
Speaker 4: Fitzgerald and then has the specks of the ship written

456
00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:32,560
Speaker 4: on it, just like caught, like the Edmund fitz photo

457
00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:35,560
Speaker 4: bombed his grandpa's picture show.

458
00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:37,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, another you know.

459
00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:41,040
Speaker 4: Also the guys from uh, the guys from Old Town

460
00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:46,240
Speaker 4: wrote in, and I didn't know this Gordon tune. Gorge's

461
00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:50,840
Speaker 4: got a tune called the Yellow Canoe. If you're dead,

462
00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:52,159
Speaker 4: do you have a tune or did.

463
00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:54,199
Speaker 2: You have a tune? That's another we should have a

464
00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:55,080
Speaker 2: staff linguist.

465
00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:55,440
Speaker 5: I don't know.

466
00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:58,640
Speaker 6: I feel like that's an in perpetuity thing. You have.

467
00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:02,120
Speaker 7: Gorge got his PhD in English, so we should probably.

468
00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:03,560
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, r do you know that you're not the

469
00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:05,040
Speaker 4: only PhD around here?

470
00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:05,320
Speaker 2: Yeah.

471
00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:06,280
Speaker 5: I'm thrilled by that.

472
00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:07,399
Speaker 2: I'm thrilled by that.

473
00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:09,280
Speaker 4: Do you guys know doctor Randall?

474
00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:11,640
Speaker 2: Doctor rand not really?

475
00:24:16,359 --> 00:24:16,439
Speaker 8: So?

476
00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:21,400
Speaker 2: Uh the hell's that? Talking about God? Lightfoot? The Yellow Canoe?

477
00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:24,840
Speaker 4: So Gord had a canoe. He wrote a song called

478
00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:27,000
Speaker 4: the Yellow Canoe must not be that great. I never

479
00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:29,320
Speaker 4: heard it either way. This yellow Canoe winds up in

480
00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:33,920
Speaker 4: a museum in Canada, and I had a serial number

481
00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:37,080
Speaker 4: on it. And Old Town was like, Hey, what's the

482
00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:39,480
Speaker 4: serial number on Gorde's canoe, because Gorde's canoe was an

483
00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:41,359
Speaker 4: old town canoe. And they were to pull up like

484
00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:43,040
Speaker 4: I don't know what the hell date it was made,

485
00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:46,359
Speaker 4: and they and and uh they used to keep me.

486
00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:49,280
Speaker 4: They sent a photo. They used to have this like

487
00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:52,679
Speaker 4: what this is like obviously pre digital, right, they have

488
00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:58,119
Speaker 4: this giant wall full of cedar boxes and each cedar

489
00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:03,199
Speaker 4: box is sort of like the purchase registration for every canoe,

490
00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:04,840
Speaker 4: and it's this huge wall.

491
00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:08,080
Speaker 2: It's like an English gun maker English could they have

492
00:25:08,119 --> 00:25:11,720
Speaker 2: the same thing, big huge ledger books with everyone, every order,

493
00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:13,760
Speaker 2: every yeah.

494
00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:15,119
Speaker 4: All stored in these cute little boxes. So when they

495
00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:17,800
Speaker 4: found out Gord's canoe, now where they could go down

496
00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:23,040
Speaker 4: to these cute little boxes, pull up the.

497
00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:26,720
Speaker 2: The see the original specs. When interesting that that shipwreck song.

498
00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:29,440
Speaker 2: I think everyone I know from the Midwest kind of

499
00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:32,040
Speaker 2: gets a little misty eyed when that one comes on.

500
00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:34,200
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it's a big deal for you guys.

501
00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:36,200
Speaker 4: You got in Australia, you guys in tear up about that.

502
00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:40,359
Speaker 2: No, I didn't have the same uh the same same

503
00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:42,520
Speaker 2: pull to it. I mean it's a good song. I

504
00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:44,400
Speaker 2: think we could appreciate it objectively.

505
00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:48,800
Speaker 5: But we had everyone in Kenya that.

506
00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:59,440
Speaker 4: Was here's a here's another not interesting. Say it again,

507
00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:02,440
Speaker 4: witka Oh No, I didn't catch what you said.

508
00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:04,680
Speaker 5: Was saying in Africa he was. He was the one

509
00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:07,239
Speaker 5: that made you miss the eye and whose songs were

510
00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:08,359
Speaker 5: He was a singer.

511
00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:11,720
Speaker 2: But what was his did he have like a shipwreck?

512
00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:13,960
Speaker 5: I dreamed of Africa and things like that was a

513
00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:15,280
Speaker 5: little Africa.

514
00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:21,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, but he didn't document shipwrecks night like, he didn't

515
00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:22,720
Speaker 4: document a tragedy or something.

516
00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:26,159
Speaker 5: Just he was sort of like he was if you

517
00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:28,480
Speaker 5: lived in Africa, you know, all the songs had to

518
00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:29,920
Speaker 5: the meaning and I.

519
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:38,040
Speaker 6: Was literally like a wreck on uh like like Victoria.

520
00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:40,600
Speaker 5: Yeah or something like that exactly.

521
00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:43,000
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, which I'm sure there have been.

522
00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:48,040
Speaker 4: You should throw in a chunk say the gentleman's name again, Roger.

523
00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:49,520
Speaker 2: What language did you work in?

524
00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:50,639
Speaker 5: English?

525
00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:51,600
Speaker 2: Throwing a chunk? Phil?

526
00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:54,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, Well you want a hole more feedback fill.

527
00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:54,639
Speaker 2: Give it to me.

528
00:26:57,280 --> 00:26:59,000
Speaker 4: When you put in that chunk of the d fits,

529
00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:00,479
Speaker 4: I didn't think it sounded the sound call.

530
00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:01,280
Speaker 2: It didn't sound great to me.

531
00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:03,439
Speaker 8: That's because I was playing it over my cell phone

532
00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:06,040
Speaker 8: into a microphone in the room. Because you just told

533
00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:08,679
Speaker 8: me to play the I didn't have my picture.

534
00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:10,639
Speaker 2: You're coming back in later on and really getting her

535
00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:13,199
Speaker 2: in there. I'll do that next time. I apologize.

536
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:16,560
Speaker 4: So with this fella, let's get him in nice and clean, Phil.

537
00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:18,520
Speaker 2: We'll do yeah, done, blow it with this one, you.

538
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:21,240
Speaker 6: Know, ma ighty sing.

539
00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:35,040
Speaker 9: So warm and wild and free you always.

540
00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:38,520
Speaker 4: We've been covering the kangaroo leather debacle heavily.

541
00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:41,399
Speaker 2: Oh you'll appreciate this. Oh, I'm sure from Australia, I haven't.

542
00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:42,800
Speaker 5: I'm not across this one.

543
00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:46,800
Speaker 4: Well, people in America are getting real riled up about

544
00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:48,560
Speaker 4: They don't want to no one to be using no

545
00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:49,840
Speaker 4: kangaroo leather for nothing.

546
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:53,680
Speaker 6: You could say they're hopping mad.

547
00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:54,800
Speaker 2: All fired up.

548
00:27:54,880 --> 00:28:00,000
Speaker 4: Even a sposh Picee was there.

549
00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:03,679
Speaker 2: So close Victoria Beckham, Yes, even.

550
00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:07,200
Speaker 4: She is like the person. Yeah yeah, well you know

551
00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:10,520
Speaker 4: what else she is. She also is a famous soccer

552
00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:12,960
Speaker 4: player's better half.

553
00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:18,760
Speaker 6: My buddy Will used to make super fancy denim jeans

554
00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:23,720
Speaker 6: and his claim to fame was David Beckham wore his jeans.

555
00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:25,040
Speaker 2: He should have made them out of kangaroo leather.

556
00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:26,520
Speaker 5: Yeah.

557
00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:29,879
Speaker 4: Well, bubbly Doug was pointing out that I think it

558
00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:33,480
Speaker 4: was Dougie pointing out that Sucker must have had forty

559
00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:36,560
Speaker 4: fifty pairs of kangaroo leather soccer shoes because of the

560
00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:39,200
Speaker 4: real common leather for soccer shoes. But I'm gonna tell

561
00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:43,560
Speaker 4: you something else. Gonna curl your hair, guy says. He

562
00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:46,680
Speaker 4: writes in and says, I've been listening to the recent

563
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:52,240
Speaker 4: podcasts covering discussion about companies moving away from kangaroo leather.

564
00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:56,360
Speaker 4: I was a firefighter for the City of Houston, the

565
00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:58,560
Speaker 4: third largest department in the US.

566
00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:02,240
Speaker 2: All of our bunker gloves.

567
00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:06,880
Speaker 4: Were kangaroo leather. The gloves were amazing, had great dexterity.

568
00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:12,520
Speaker 4: Houston Fire Department normally has over four thousand firefighters on

569
00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:16,920
Speaker 4: their payroll. Everyone had a set of these gloves. No

570
00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:21,560
Speaker 4: telling how many were on Standbio's replacements. If any kind

571
00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:23,480
Speaker 4: of damage was done to the gloves, we would have

572
00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:26,200
Speaker 4: to get them replaced, so you could go through many

573
00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:29,520
Speaker 4: pairs throughout the year. My guess is that Houston Fire

574
00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:33,840
Speaker 4: Department uses kangaroo still using them, and goes on to

575
00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:38,040
Speaker 4: say if people in Australia are sweating their market, hopefully

576
00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:39,520
Speaker 4: the fire departments will keep them alive.

577
00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:43,440
Speaker 5: There we go have you been to Australia. Nope, never,

578
00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:46,840
Speaker 5: because I did my gap year set of after university

579
00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:50,600
Speaker 5: before I became a professional hunter, and Kangary's and Wallaby's

580
00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:53,960
Speaker 5: are like rabbits. They are everywhere. I mean, I ended

581
00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:57,120
Speaker 5: up taking out five with my ute as I came

582
00:29:57,120 --> 00:29:59,800
Speaker 5: around the corner and the farmer next door was doing

583
00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:03,320
Speaker 5: a hell and about five hundred round across the road

584
00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:04,840
Speaker 5: in front of me, and before I could slam on

585
00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:06,800
Speaker 5: the brakes, I'd already hit five of them.

586
00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:09,320
Speaker 2: I mean, they have to look like five hundred king.

587
00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:11,080
Speaker 5: It was insane. There was like this hedge and they

588
00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:13,160
Speaker 5: all came diving over the hedge and me and my

589
00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:17,320
Speaker 5: friend literally didn't have any time to react and in

590
00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:19,680
Speaker 5: the worst I had to keep reversing over to finish

591
00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:20,200
Speaker 5: the job.

592
00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:23,720
Speaker 2: Iron or something.

593
00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:26,200
Speaker 5: No, you know, it was a farm truck and it

594
00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:29,760
Speaker 5: just didn't have anything in it. It's not like an

595
00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:33,160
Speaker 5: American truck. It's like a pretty small truck in comparison.

596
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:38,280
Speaker 4: Well, No, that we talked about, I don't want to

597
00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:43,120
Speaker 4: retalk about it. But the fact that they're calling kangaroos

598
00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:46,440
Speaker 4: no matter what. Yeah, whether someone's whether someone's using it

599
00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:50,440
Speaker 4: or not. Yeah, yeah, either do they either go and

600
00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:53,480
Speaker 4: do a ditch or they get used as usable product. Yeah,

601
00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:56,160
Speaker 4: like you you not buying the leather isn't.

602
00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:58,640
Speaker 5: Doing any impact.

603
00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:01,959
Speaker 6: And everybody I talked, he says the pro team, the

604
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:05,080
Speaker 6: meat is inexpensive and quite tasty.

605
00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:08,120
Speaker 2: It's good, it's good. It's a hard sell for people

606
00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:11,080
Speaker 2: in Australia. It's like very seldom eat in there. They

607
00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:14,160
Speaker 2: mostly export it. Either it goes into pet meat or

608
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:18,800
Speaker 2: it's exported, like you'll occasionally see it in some like

609
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:21,120
Speaker 2: some sort of high end restaurant or something. But people

610
00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:24,840
Speaker 2: in general, yeah, people in general there have a real

611
00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:26,000
Speaker 2: issue with eating.

612
00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:29,400
Speaker 4: Like do they think of it like eating a dog

613
00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:32,000
Speaker 4: in America or eating a rat in America?

614
00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:35,000
Speaker 5: It's hard to better better than I get it in

615
00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:35,640
Speaker 5: a restaurant.

616
00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:38,720
Speaker 2: I think it's not quite a rat level of revulsion

617
00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:41,240
Speaker 2: or dog level of revulsion. But it's like, well, no,

618
00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:42,440
Speaker 2: I would just say it's a dog.

619
00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:46,000
Speaker 4: I would, Okay, from a US sensibility, these are two

620
00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:47,920
Speaker 4: very different reasons not to eat something.

621
00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:52,000
Speaker 2: To eat a dog children, right, and a rat is

622
00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:56,720
Speaker 2: because it's discussing. I think it's neither. I think it's

623
00:31:56,840 --> 00:31:59,400
Speaker 2: because people just don't think it's going to be good,

624
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:03,200
Speaker 2: and they're kind of like, you know, they hop around whatever.

625
00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:06,120
Speaker 2: I'm not entirely sure because I never had this issue

626
00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:07,760
Speaker 2: with it, and I don't think I've ever really tried

627
00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:10,160
Speaker 2: to unpack it with someone. But I know that, like,

628
00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:14,959
Speaker 2: it's hugely unpopular and not commercially successful the meat at

629
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:20,680
Speaker 2: all in Australia itself, Russia. For a while it was

630
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:24,240
Speaker 2: relatively popular in Russia. I guess it's relatively popular in Europe.

631
00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:26,880
Speaker 2: But people have this big issue with it. And of

632
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:29,440
Speaker 2: course they're one of these species that's just benefited so

633
00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:33,480
Speaker 2: much from agriculture and land clearing, so their numbers are

634
00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:35,920
Speaker 2: just way above what they would have been. You know,

635
00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:38,800
Speaker 2: back in the day, like pre settlement.

636
00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:41,440
Speaker 4: We covered a guy, remember that, Remember that heart lunch guy.

637
00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:44,800
Speaker 4: There was a guy that had a heart launch program

638
00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:45,640
Speaker 4: and he got fired.

639
00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:54,200
Speaker 7: I remember that, Yes, yes, his job back in the end,

640
00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:55,080
Speaker 7: I don't remember.

641
00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:56,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, they let him go.

642
00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:58,480
Speaker 4: They found out you've been buying a kangaroo berger for

643
00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:00,400
Speaker 4: the heart launch program.

644
00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:02,160
Speaker 2: But I think you might have got his job back, man,

645
00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:04,800
Speaker 2: I figured that. Or was he buying it and selling

646
00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:07,160
Speaker 2: it as beef or was he just sort of not

647
00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:13,280
Speaker 2: coming hamburger, Yeah, burger, like whatever, it's burger, burgers, burger.

648
00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:15,080
Speaker 2: I mean, they're good to eat, there's no doubt about it.

649
00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:17,560
Speaker 10: Is there a stigma around it, like like that's a

650
00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:18,840
Speaker 10: guy who eats kangaroo meat?

651
00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:24,960
Speaker 2: No, I wouldn't say it's that that extreme. I think

652
00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:27,560
Speaker 2: people just sort of like you walk into the butcher's shop,

653
00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:30,200
Speaker 2: the meat counters. There there's beef, there's lamb, there's pork,

654
00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:32,720
Speaker 2: there's kangaroo. I want to be like, I'm not getting kikta.

655
00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:35,200
Speaker 7: If it's at restaurants though, is it at like high

656
00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:36,920
Speaker 7: end restaurants, it will be.

657
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:40,120
Speaker 2: See that's also kind of tourist contraction. Oh, I see,

658
00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:43,360
Speaker 2: And I think people are more there's more of a

659
00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:47,360
Speaker 2: push towards it from a like sustainability standpoint, in the

660
00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:49,640
Speaker 2: sense that you know, these things, as you said at

661
00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:51,920
Speaker 2: the point you made, they're getting culled whether you like

662
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:54,480
Speaker 2: it or not. We may as well try and incorporate,

663
00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:57,320
Speaker 2: incorporate some of this protein into our you know, into

664
00:33:57,320 --> 00:34:00,360
Speaker 2: our diet because it's good stuff. But I know there

665
00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:02,840
Speaker 2: was like a burger chain I want to say that

666
00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:05,320
Speaker 2: was like we're switching to kangaroo burgers and I think

667
00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:07,480
Speaker 2: it just killed their business. I think it just couldn't

668
00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:09,560
Speaker 2: get people, just couldn't get behind.

669
00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:10,800
Speaker 7: Crews just need a rebrand.

670
00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:15,200
Speaker 2: They need a rebrand. I agree. I think it's gonna

671
00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:20,120
Speaker 2: be a tough road to hug. Yeah, gets a business

672
00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:20,480
Speaker 2: with them.

673
00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:22,080
Speaker 7: Steve, Australian.

674
00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:25,239
Speaker 4: I only had kangaroo a couple of times. Someone sent

675
00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:26,640
Speaker 4: me a bunch of kangaroo chops.

676
00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:28,680
Speaker 2: One time we ate them up. Oh interesting. I wonder

677
00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:32,719
Speaker 2: if they're from like a farm in Texas or something Australia.

678
00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:35,360
Speaker 4: Really, I can't remember how I got them. It was

679
00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:38,160
Speaker 4: a long time ago I got those. And then and

680
00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:42,919
Speaker 4: then the same person sent me some yak meat yack meat.

681
00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:43,480
Speaker 5: Wow.

682
00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:46,240
Speaker 6: I think you do a side by side profile picture

683
00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:49,279
Speaker 6: of would you eat me? And one side just the

684
00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:51,239
Speaker 6: kangaroo and the other side of the kangaroo with like

685
00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:54,239
Speaker 6: a big set of rabbit ears on it. Oh yeah,

686
00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:55,520
Speaker 6: everybody likes eating rabbit.

687
00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:58,759
Speaker 5: Also, I have to say, like a wallaby looks a

688
00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:01,680
Speaker 5: lot more appetizing than a big red kangary.

689
00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:02,200
Speaker 2: Really.

690
00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:04,520
Speaker 5: Yeah. They just look a bit juic here and.

691
00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:08,040
Speaker 2: Just smaller and little. They got a juicy look to it,

692
00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:12,120
Speaker 2: not as sort of wiry and spring loaded as.

693
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:14,760
Speaker 5: The male red kangary is a pretty pretty mean looking

694
00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:15,840
Speaker 5: They are mean looking.

695
00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:16,840
Speaker 6: Yeah, they're very stern.

696
00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:20,319
Speaker 8: I didn't find anything about the cook getting his job

697
00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:22,719
Speaker 8: back because it got so bad that the superintendent of

698
00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:24,240
Speaker 8: the school district even resigned.

699
00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:28,319
Speaker 2: What Yeah, as I said, people are funny about it,

700
00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:29,160
Speaker 2: like they are.

701
00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:33,200
Speaker 4: These people wouldn't know kangaroo if it kicked them here,

702
00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:36,960
Speaker 4: you know what they look like. One last thing, so

703
00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:42,839
Speaker 4: we uh man, maybe a year ago, maybe a year ago,

704
00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:44,760
Speaker 4: we had a bunch of a bunch of our colleagues

705
00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:47,000
Speaker 4: from the first from First Light on and they had

706
00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:52,400
Speaker 4: been on this show, and we would announced that our waiters,

707
00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:56,480
Speaker 4: First Light Waiters would be coming out this summer. So

708
00:35:56,800 --> 00:36:00,239
Speaker 4: there was a long, you know, two year test process.

709
00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:01,239
Speaker 2: We've had people.

710
00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:03,960
Speaker 4: Running around hunting ducks and I've been trapping beavers in

711
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:09,320
Speaker 4: the waiters. I don't know, ten to fourteen states or something.

712
00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:12,480
Speaker 4: We've been testing the waiters and just the heads up

713
00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:17,439
Speaker 4: that they they gotta be perfect. We're we're not ready yet.

714
00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:23,680
Speaker 4: Two years, ten states, they're not ready yet. So I

715
00:36:23,719 --> 00:36:27,000
Speaker 4: know a lot of people keep reaching out about getting

716
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:30,960
Speaker 4: the new first Light forage waiters. I have a pair

717
00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:34,480
Speaker 4: they're phenomenal, they're worth the weight, but in terms of

718
00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:38,680
Speaker 4: getting like the numbers out there for launch, we're not

719
00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:42,400
Speaker 4: there yet. So stay tuned on waiters.

720
00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:44,000
Speaker 6: Which I think is exactly what you want to hear

721
00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:44,720
Speaker 6: from a company.

722
00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:47,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, because we could be saying they're not ready, but

723
00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:51,400
Speaker 2: order now and by the way, ready yeah.

724
00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:55,560
Speaker 6: Yeah. Anybody who's had a rough go with an expensive

725
00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:58,600
Speaker 6: pair of waiters is just you can't even look at

726
00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:05,239
Speaker 6: them the same way. So yeah, we're aiming for the

727
00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:07,400
Speaker 6: top of the heap here, the best of the best,

728
00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:11,320
Speaker 6: and and we're putting the screws to them. So stay tuned,

729
00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:12,240
Speaker 6: it'll happen.

730
00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:25,560
Speaker 4: Stay tuned, all right, Uh, tell about the story about

731
00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:27,520
Speaker 4: getting beat up by by Kate Buffalo.

732
00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:32,319
Speaker 5: Well, it can be a long story or a short

733
00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:37,680
Speaker 5: story the media. The long version. We were in our

734
00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:42,080
Speaker 5: Leganza Game Reserve concession, which just to put things in perspective,

735
00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:45,480
Speaker 5: it's over a million and a half acres of pure

736
00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:50,279
Speaker 5: wilderness no other people bar our little camp and.

737
00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:52,120
Speaker 2: How many acres over a.

738
00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:53,400
Speaker 5: Million and a half acres.

739
00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:57,000
Speaker 4: It's looks like, yeah, that's like like what yellstones two million?

740
00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:00,360
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's about the size of the road Island.

741
00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:04,680
Speaker 2: Basically, Rhode Island's great state to have in the country.

742
00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:09,880
Speaker 2: It's always good for making things comparisons. Yeah, you know

743
00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:12,200
Speaker 2: what I mean. It's a great little tool, Yeah, to

744
00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:13,040
Speaker 2: have Rhode Island.

745
00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:17,560
Speaker 5: So anyway, it's a two hour flight in from Arusha,

746
00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:21,080
Speaker 5: which we're our bases, and it was a big family

747
00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:24,120
Speaker 5: safari so my brother and another professional hunter were on

748
00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:24,919
Speaker 5: the trip as well.

749
00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:27,319
Speaker 4: Now I'm going to drive you crazy because I need

750
00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:29,560
Speaker 4: to have certain things clarified as we go along. Yeah,

751
00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:32,360
Speaker 4: that's fine, do you mind right now?

752
00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:34,800
Speaker 2: Telling? Like, what is a concession?

753
00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:39,840
Speaker 5: So how it works in Tanzaniera is you lease the

754
00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:43,440
Speaker 5: areas from the government. Gives you the right the tourism

755
00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:47,239
Speaker 5: and hunting rights for that area of land. There's no

756
00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:50,760
Speaker 5: private ownership in Tanzania and Southern Africa is very different

757
00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:53,840
Speaker 5: and the landowner owns the wildlife and everything. We just

758
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:55,799
Speaker 5: leased the right to take people there.

759
00:38:56,960 --> 00:38:58,360
Speaker 2: So it's undeveloped.

760
00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:02,640
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's set aside for wildlife and you know, the

761
00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:07,319
Speaker 5: habitats protected, but there's huge pressures on it. So it

762
00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:11,000
Speaker 5: involves a huge amount of anti poaching and community sort

763
00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:15,800
Speaker 5: of liaison work to get them on site.

764
00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:19,640
Speaker 4: This one million acre chunk. How many residents are in

765
00:39:19,680 --> 00:39:21,040
Speaker 4: that one million acres.

766
00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:25,319
Speaker 5: No one just hunting camp. But all around the edge

767
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:28,440
Speaker 5: there are villages where they're farming and they have their land.

768
00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:32,880
Speaker 4: And those those villagers around the edge, they utilize that.

769
00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:38,040
Speaker 5: They're technically not allowed. They're not allowed to do anything.

770
00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:42,359
Speaker 5: They shouldn't be cutting trees, farming, grazing their cattle. It's

771
00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:44,560
Speaker 5: it's just set aside. It's a gamers.

772
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:46,319
Speaker 2: Assuming that that does go on.

773
00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:49,200
Speaker 5: So this is the problem in Africa that you know,

774
00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:53,320
Speaker 5: people are desperate to survive and the population is growing

775
00:39:53,560 --> 00:39:58,120
Speaker 5: so rapidly there's not enough space for everyone. So you know,

776
00:39:58,160 --> 00:40:00,319
Speaker 5: they see this huge piece of land and if they're

777
00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:03,920
Speaker 5: not benefiting from it in some way, then of course,

778
00:40:04,239 --> 00:40:06,760
Speaker 5: you know, if they can catch an animal and feed

779
00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:11,080
Speaker 5: their family, then they're going to try. And so a

780
00:40:11,080 --> 00:40:12,719
Speaker 5: big part of our job is trying to make the

781
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:18,000
Speaker 5: communities benefit from us being there. And yeah, my dad

782
00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:21,800
Speaker 5: was a sort of instigator in the community benefit scheme

783
00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:24,520
Speaker 5: where you know, the local villages would benefit from the

784
00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:29,000
Speaker 5: game that we hunt. And so we've over the last

785
00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:32,320
Speaker 5: fifteen years, I think we've spent over three million dollars

786
00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:38,680
Speaker 5: on developing schools, boreholes, health dispensaries, you name it. Whatever

787
00:40:38,719 --> 00:40:42,640
Speaker 5: the communities needed. And that was all generated through through

788
00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:44,320
Speaker 5: our community benefits of hunting.

789
00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:49,000
Speaker 2: Oh okay, so that's concession. Yeah, in their concession.

790
00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:52,480
Speaker 5: So we're in the in the Laganza Game Reserve, and

791
00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:57,080
Speaker 5: because it's a big family group, some people are arriving

792
00:40:57,200 --> 00:41:00,560
Speaker 5: earlier or later. And I'd been hunting with the mother

793
00:41:01,239 --> 00:41:03,920
Speaker 5: and the daughter was just arriving halfway through the trip.

794
00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:09,279
Speaker 5: And she's twenty three, her first African hunting experience, and

795
00:41:09,320 --> 00:41:11,120
Speaker 5: the mother's like, well, why don't you just go out

796
00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:14,839
Speaker 5: with her on one on one today and let her

797
00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:17,440
Speaker 5: just you know, enjoy the experience and I'll have a

798
00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:21,040
Speaker 5: rest day and camp. And so she arrives and we

799
00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:23,920
Speaker 5: set off early in the morning, and you know, I

800
00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:26,520
Speaker 5: want to get her a feel of hunting in Africa.

801
00:41:27,719 --> 00:41:31,200
Speaker 5: So we're not going for anything dangerous. We're going to

802
00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:32,920
Speaker 5: go out and look for one of the more common

803
00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:35,720
Speaker 5: planes game animals, like a water buck or a topi.

804
00:41:36,719 --> 00:41:41,239
Speaker 5: And as it happens, we run across some fresh tracks

805
00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:46,279
Speaker 5: for buffalo and it's just you know, you can't miss

806
00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:49,279
Speaker 5: the opportunity, you know, when something's fresh and good. I

807
00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:51,040
Speaker 5: was like, well, let's give it a little look and

808
00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:55,560
Speaker 5: we'll see how it all goes. And as it happened,

809
00:41:55,880 --> 00:41:59,120
Speaker 5: these buffalo took us right up into the mountains, you know,

810
00:41:59,239 --> 00:42:01,920
Speaker 5: over a platte so down the other side, and we

811
00:42:01,960 --> 00:42:05,080
Speaker 5: spent like five or six hours tracking them, by which

812
00:42:05,120 --> 00:42:09,000
Speaker 5: point she's now beginning to suffer from heat stroke, and

813
00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:12,120
Speaker 5: like we hadn't taken any lunch with us. Luckily, we

814
00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:15,920
Speaker 5: had a couple of bottles of water and I had

815
00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:19,600
Speaker 5: some Eminem's which I gave her some chocolates, which was

816
00:42:19,719 --> 00:42:21,799
Speaker 5: enough to basically walk back to the nearest point we

817
00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:26,560
Speaker 5: could get the car. So basically, after six hours, we've

818
00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:26,960
Speaker 5: had no.

819
00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:30,359
Speaker 4: Luck following a single track following it was a group

820
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:31,200
Speaker 4: of four or five bucks.

821
00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:36,120
Speaker 5: Yeah, And anyway, the wind just kept swirling and working

822
00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:38,760
Speaker 5: in their favor and it wasn't going to happen, so

823
00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:41,560
Speaker 5: we don't want to push it anyway. So we head

824
00:42:41,560 --> 00:42:44,040
Speaker 5: back to the car and we have our picnic lunch

825
00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:46,319
Speaker 5: and a bit of a break and I'm like, well,

826
00:42:46,320 --> 00:42:48,040
Speaker 5: why don't we just go along the edge of the

827
00:42:48,080 --> 00:42:50,640
Speaker 5: lake shore this evening, and you know, if we happened

828
00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:54,479
Speaker 5: to see a water bark or something. Then then we'll try,

829
00:42:54,640 --> 00:42:57,080
Speaker 5: you know, tryal luck, but otherwise we'll just amble back

830
00:42:57,080 --> 00:43:00,120
Speaker 5: to camp because she basically, you know, had enough for

831
00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:04,160
Speaker 5: them from the day. And we're driving along the lake

832
00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:08,760
Speaker 5: shore at about five thirty in the evening and suddenly

833
00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:12,640
Speaker 5: this beautiful old water buck runs across the road in

834
00:43:12,680 --> 00:43:15,839
Speaker 5: front of us, and I can see straight away as

835
00:43:15,880 --> 00:43:19,960
Speaker 5: you know, perfect old bull, and I'm like, okay, we

836
00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:23,560
Speaker 5: need going give this guy a go. So she jumps out,

837
00:43:23,640 --> 00:43:27,760
Speaker 5: gets her gun. I grab my shooting sticks because in Africa,

838
00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:29,920
Speaker 5: you know, the grass is often long, so you use

839
00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:32,520
Speaker 5: shooting sticks. It's like a tripod, so you shoot from

840
00:43:32,520 --> 00:43:37,759
Speaker 5: a standing position, not lying down. And my track is

841
00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:40,400
Speaker 5: grabbing my big five hundred, which is a sort of

842
00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:44,920
Speaker 5: the backup weapon, and the zip keeps jamming on the

843
00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:49,080
Speaker 5: gun sleeve, and so I turned to don't worry. Don't worry,

844
00:43:49,120 --> 00:43:54,160
Speaker 5: We're not going far, and we set off and we

845
00:43:54,280 --> 00:43:55,960
Speaker 5: come around the edge. The way it works is sort

846
00:43:55,960 --> 00:43:58,640
Speaker 5: of floodplains, So you've got these ant hills where all

847
00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:03,719
Speaker 5: the foliage basically it's concentrated, so the trees. Because during

848
00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:08,000
Speaker 5: the wet season, the whole area of floods. The grass plains,

849
00:44:08,000 --> 00:44:10,000
Speaker 5: but it survives. These things are big, you know, yeah,

850
00:44:10,040 --> 00:44:13,960
Speaker 5: talking thirty feet across. Yeah, So you've got these really

851
00:44:14,080 --> 00:44:17,120
Speaker 5: huge open planes and then these these massive ant hills

852
00:44:17,120 --> 00:44:21,200
Speaker 5: that have trees and palm bushes and lots of foliage

853
00:44:21,239 --> 00:44:24,560
Speaker 5: on them, and it's you sort of work with them.

854
00:44:24,600 --> 00:44:27,040
Speaker 5: You know, they're perfect for stalking things. You come around

855
00:44:27,080 --> 00:44:29,520
Speaker 5: the edge of the cover and so we go round

856
00:44:29,520 --> 00:44:31,839
Speaker 5: a couple and there's the water buck and I put

857
00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:35,480
Speaker 5: the sticks up, but the water buck stops with a

858
00:44:35,480 --> 00:44:38,120
Speaker 5: palm leaf right in front of its vitals, and she's

859
00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:39,160
Speaker 5: uncomfortable with the shot.

860
00:44:40,320 --> 00:44:40,720
Speaker 2: Pictures.

861
00:44:40,840 --> 00:44:47,200
Speaker 5: Yeah, and so the water back carries on and it

862
00:44:47,239 --> 00:44:49,839
Speaker 5: goes around a few more of these ant hills, and

863
00:44:49,880 --> 00:44:51,480
Speaker 5: we're stalking along the other side.

864
00:44:51,640 --> 00:44:56,160
Speaker 4: So you just use these ant hills as yeah, and

865
00:44:56,320 --> 00:45:00,160
Speaker 4: like using round round hay bales exactly just like that.

866
00:45:01,080 --> 00:45:05,279
Speaker 5: And next minute, as we're coming around, we've literally only

867
00:45:05,360 --> 00:45:10,920
Speaker 5: gone probably five hundred meters from the car, and I

868
00:45:10,960 --> 00:45:14,719
Speaker 5: come around this one bush and this buffalo burst out

869
00:45:14,719 --> 00:45:17,200
Speaker 5: of the front of the bush towards us. And normally,

870
00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:20,359
Speaker 5: like when you're hunting them, ninety nine percent of the time,

871
00:45:20,480 --> 00:45:22,960
Speaker 5: if they sense you, they burst out of the back

872
00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:25,239
Speaker 5: of the bush and you don't even see them, you

873
00:45:25,320 --> 00:45:31,319
Speaker 5: just hear the eruption, and this one time. Typically it

874
00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:35,880
Speaker 5: decides it's coming out the front, and it looks at me,

875
00:45:36,080 --> 00:45:39,840
Speaker 5: It looks at the young girl that I'm with, and

876
00:45:40,680 --> 00:45:44,360
Speaker 5: it decides it's homing in on her. Meanwhile, the trackers

877
00:45:44,600 --> 00:45:45,600
Speaker 5: have just vaporized.

878
00:45:45,600 --> 00:45:46,719
Speaker 2: They disappear and.

879
00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:50,799
Speaker 5: Smart insecond, and normally that actually helps you in the

880
00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:55,080
Speaker 5: case that they'll it'll draw the animal's attention, but in

881
00:45:55,120 --> 00:45:58,279
Speaker 5: this case, it didn't. It it just fixated on my

882
00:45:58,360 --> 00:46:02,919
Speaker 5: client and everything sort of slowed down, and I could tell,

883
00:46:03,360 --> 00:46:06,920
Speaker 5: you know, she was going to get annihilated because she

884
00:46:07,040 --> 00:46:11,040
Speaker 5: was just standing up right in the open. And she'd

885
00:46:11,120 --> 00:46:13,640
Speaker 5: later told me she didn't actually know it was a buffalo.

886
00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:15,880
Speaker 5: She thought it was the water buck that we were hunting,

887
00:46:16,360 --> 00:46:20,560
Speaker 5: so she was just confused in the moment, and I

888
00:46:20,600 --> 00:46:23,319
Speaker 5: sort of evaluated everything I saw. It was really old

889
00:46:23,400 --> 00:46:25,760
Speaker 5: and it didn't have both of it It had broken

890
00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:27,480
Speaker 5: both its horns off, it was so old, so it

891
00:46:27,560 --> 00:46:30,400
Speaker 5: just had this big mound of a boss in the middle,

892
00:46:30,960 --> 00:46:32,720
Speaker 5: but no nasty.

893
00:46:32,400 --> 00:46:34,040
Speaker 6: Hooks, just a battering ram.

894
00:46:34,360 --> 00:46:37,600
Speaker 5: Yeah, So in my head in that split second, I

895
00:46:37,680 --> 00:46:39,800
Speaker 5: kind of thought, well, I can throw my shooting sticks

896
00:46:39,800 --> 00:46:43,879
Speaker 5: at it and attention. I didn't even slow it down.

897
00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:46,480
Speaker 5: I just thought it would draw it towards me. And

898
00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:49,680
Speaker 5: then I thought I could be like a bullfighter and

899
00:46:49,840 --> 00:46:52,120
Speaker 5: dive out of the way. And at the last second,

900
00:46:52,920 --> 00:46:57,839
Speaker 5: and I got that bit a bit wrong. I threw

901
00:46:57,880 --> 00:47:00,440
Speaker 5: my sticks and hid it straight in the face.

902
00:47:01,120 --> 00:47:02,840
Speaker 4: How close was it when you when you huck your

903
00:47:02,840 --> 00:47:03,480
Speaker 4: sticks at it?

904
00:47:03,960 --> 00:47:06,440
Speaker 5: So it burst out of the bush literally about fifteen

905
00:47:06,520 --> 00:47:09,560
Speaker 5: yards in front of us, And it was about eight

906
00:47:09,640 --> 00:47:13,120
Speaker 5: yards when I checked myself in the weigh a buffalo

907
00:47:13,120 --> 00:47:16,640
Speaker 5: about fifteen hundred pounds, you know, maybe seventeen hundred for.

908
00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:18,880
Speaker 2: A big old How high are they at the shoulder?

909
00:47:20,160 --> 00:47:24,759
Speaker 5: The shoulder probably five five and a half.

910
00:47:25,360 --> 00:47:28,480
Speaker 4: Considerably bigger than I mean, well, like a big Yukon

911
00:47:28,600 --> 00:47:30,080
Speaker 4: moves bigger.

912
00:47:30,920 --> 00:47:33,879
Speaker 5: Body is bigger, but I mean.

913
00:47:34,520 --> 00:47:37,920
Speaker 4: Pound yeah, carry, yeah, for sure.

914
00:47:38,080 --> 00:47:43,160
Speaker 5: It's it's more of a bull terrier shape than dobaman,

915
00:47:43,200 --> 00:47:46,200
Speaker 5: if you know what I mean. It's solid, yeah.

916
00:47:46,040 --> 00:47:47,759
Speaker 6: Yeah, and the mask goes all the way to.

917
00:47:47,719 --> 00:47:49,720
Speaker 5: The hips, yeah, all the way to the ankles.

918
00:47:50,040 --> 00:47:50,120
Speaker 7: Ye.

919
00:47:53,400 --> 00:47:57,759
Speaker 5: So yeah, it comes at me and I literally just

920
00:47:57,840 --> 00:48:01,840
Speaker 5: bend my knees to start the dark I've and I realized,

921
00:48:02,440 --> 00:48:04,040
Speaker 5: there's no way I'm even going to project.

922
00:48:04,160 --> 00:48:04,880
Speaker 2: You couldn't get on.

923
00:48:05,040 --> 00:48:06,239
Speaker 4: You couldn't even get a jump going.

924
00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:09,320
Speaker 5: No, I didn't even start jumping. And I used to

925
00:48:09,320 --> 00:48:12,960
Speaker 5: play a lot of rugby, so my instinct was I

926
00:48:13,040 --> 00:48:14,680
Speaker 5: kind of knew it was going to get me in

927
00:48:14,719 --> 00:48:15,879
Speaker 5: the ribs, so I.

928
00:48:15,840 --> 00:48:17,920
Speaker 4: Dipped my When you hooked your sticks at it was

929
00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:19,439
Speaker 4: it was it still standing.

930
00:48:19,160 --> 00:48:21,879
Speaker 2: Or was it already it was running? It was almost Yeah,

931
00:48:21,960 --> 00:48:22,560
Speaker 2: so he was already.

932
00:48:23,080 --> 00:48:24,960
Speaker 5: He was already, he'd homed in and he was.

933
00:48:24,960 --> 00:48:26,760
Speaker 4: And how far apart are you and your client?

934
00:48:27,120 --> 00:48:29,880
Speaker 5: She's about a meter to one side.

935
00:48:30,280 --> 00:48:33,239
Speaker 4: So he comes out, he's coming hard, and you throw

936
00:48:33,520 --> 00:48:36,319
Speaker 4: as he's running at you, You fling your stuff at him.

937
00:48:36,400 --> 00:48:38,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's already got his velocity.

938
00:48:38,360 --> 00:48:40,040
Speaker 6: And really make a great shot too.

939
00:48:41,719 --> 00:48:43,400
Speaker 5: It was pretty surprised when I hit it in the face.

940
00:48:44,600 --> 00:48:45,160
Speaker 2: Imagine what he.

941
00:48:48,360 --> 00:48:51,480
Speaker 5: Yeah, it worked, and he came straight at me and

942
00:48:51,480 --> 00:48:54,200
Speaker 5: and I dipped my shoulder, thinking I'll just take the

943
00:48:54,239 --> 00:48:57,520
Speaker 5: impact on my shoulder, and I didn't realize it was

944
00:48:57,560 --> 00:48:59,880
Speaker 5: going to be like being hit by a freight train basically,

945
00:49:00,520 --> 00:49:05,439
Speaker 5: And the impact threw me about twenty yards, no joke,

946
00:49:05,560 --> 00:49:09,960
Speaker 5: and I took most of it on my shoulder, but

947
00:49:10,160 --> 00:49:13,279
Speaker 5: then the secondary impact hit my head and I sort

948
00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:15,840
Speaker 5: of blacked out. So I woke up on the ground

949
00:49:15,880 --> 00:49:20,160
Speaker 5: and everything was sort of blurry and spinning around, and

950
00:49:20,200 --> 00:49:22,239
Speaker 5: I was trying to stand up, but I couldn't use

951
00:49:22,239 --> 00:49:25,440
Speaker 5: my one arm. And at the same time, all I

952
00:49:25,480 --> 00:49:27,799
Speaker 5: could think about is my client. Okay, so I'm so

953
00:49:27,880 --> 00:49:32,000
Speaker 5: shouting are Uka trying to locate her? And luckily one

954
00:49:32,040 --> 00:49:34,080
Speaker 5: of my trackers ran back and grabbed me and sort

955
00:49:34,120 --> 00:49:37,799
Speaker 5: of helped me stand up, and then I saw her

956
00:49:37,800 --> 00:49:41,520
Speaker 5: and she was absolutely fine and got told. The rest

957
00:49:41,560 --> 00:49:44,560
Speaker 5: of the story was basically, after it had flung me

958
00:49:44,640 --> 00:49:47,360
Speaker 5: twenty yards, it then decided it hadn't had enough and

959
00:49:48,000 --> 00:49:50,239
Speaker 5: came after me again and was just pounding me on the.

960
00:49:50,680 --> 00:49:52,120
Speaker 2: Ground while you were blacked out.

961
00:49:52,239 --> 00:49:57,399
Speaker 5: Yeah and yeah, so my butt was completely black, but I.

962
00:49:57,360 --> 00:50:00,520
Speaker 2: Don't remember this hook. Were still just doing with the boss.

963
00:50:00,560 --> 00:50:04,359
Speaker 5: They always use their head for everything. Yeah, and when

964
00:50:04,400 --> 00:50:07,680
Speaker 5: when it did this, my client, the young girl, basically

965
00:50:07,719 --> 00:50:11,080
Speaker 5: realized this was a buffalo, not a water buck. And

966
00:50:11,760 --> 00:50:13,840
Speaker 5: we'd had the discussion earlier that morning what to do

967
00:50:14,000 --> 00:50:16,200
Speaker 5: if you know, if we came across a buffalo in

968
00:50:16,280 --> 00:50:18,680
Speaker 5: a bad situation, and I sort of said, you know,

969
00:50:18,719 --> 00:50:21,560
Speaker 5: either get behind a bush if there's one nearby, or

970
00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:25,600
Speaker 5: life laud on the ground. And so there was one

971
00:50:25,680 --> 00:50:28,640
Speaker 5: bush right there, and she ran the sort of five

972
00:50:28,680 --> 00:50:30,919
Speaker 5: steps to get behind the bush, and it was enough

973
00:50:31,480 --> 00:50:35,200
Speaker 5: to attract the buffalo's attention off me onto her, and

974
00:50:35,239 --> 00:50:39,200
Speaker 5: it tried to then get her, smashed the one bush

975
00:50:39,280 --> 00:50:42,640
Speaker 5: and then ran off, never to be seen again, well

976
00:50:42,719 --> 00:50:44,680
Speaker 5: almost never to be seen again. Actually ran into our

977
00:50:44,719 --> 00:50:47,880
Speaker 5: anti poaching team, like who was setting up camp for

978
00:50:47,920 --> 00:50:50,320
Speaker 5: the night, and so that caused a bit of mayhem

979
00:50:50,400 --> 00:50:54,200
Speaker 5: there as well as it ran through. Yeah, and then

980
00:50:54,320 --> 00:50:56,720
Speaker 5: he was out of there, and they the anti poaching

981
00:50:56,719 --> 00:50:59,200
Speaker 5: team said that they noticed it had a bit of

982
00:50:59,200 --> 00:51:01,279
Speaker 5: a limp, and I think it had had a run

983
00:51:01,280 --> 00:51:04,360
Speaker 5: in with a lion or possibly a poacher at some point,

984
00:51:04,400 --> 00:51:07,640
Speaker 5: and one of its legs wasn't.

985
00:51:06,320 --> 00:51:08,520
Speaker 6: He didn't claim that, He said, well, I used to

986
00:51:08,560 --> 00:51:12,000
Speaker 6: play rugby. I gave him a pretty good shot.

987
00:51:13,120 --> 00:51:16,040
Speaker 5: But it did explain slightly why it behaved the way

988
00:51:16,080 --> 00:51:17,799
Speaker 5: it did and why it was in a place you

989
00:51:17,880 --> 00:51:22,600
Speaker 5: normally wouldn't expect to find a buffalo. So caught us

990
00:51:22,600 --> 00:51:23,080
Speaker 5: off guard.

991
00:51:24,040 --> 00:51:27,000
Speaker 6: Oh so he was also in terrain, Yeah, he was.

992
00:51:27,040 --> 00:51:28,960
Speaker 5: He was right in a very open area and normally

993
00:51:29,040 --> 00:51:31,279
Speaker 5: the buffalo will go to water and then they'll head

994
00:51:31,360 --> 00:51:34,719
Speaker 5: way off back into the hills and thickets and and

995
00:51:34,760 --> 00:51:37,480
Speaker 5: sort of disappear in the heat of the day. And

996
00:51:37,719 --> 00:51:40,319
Speaker 5: he'd stayed very close to the to the water's edge,

997
00:51:40,760 --> 00:51:44,160
Speaker 5: and I think probably because his leg was giving him problems.

998
00:51:44,600 --> 00:51:46,360
Speaker 5: And I presume when we came around the corner, he

999
00:51:46,400 --> 00:51:49,959
Speaker 5: must have thought we were after him, and he knew,

1000
00:51:50,320 --> 00:51:52,480
Speaker 5: you know, he didn't have a chance to run away,

1001
00:51:52,560 --> 00:51:55,799
Speaker 5: so he stood his ground, which, yeah, it wasn't great.

1002
00:51:56,040 --> 00:51:59,040
Speaker 6: So what was the the damage in total?

1003
00:51:59,840 --> 00:52:02,360
Speaker 5: So that's kind of a funny story.

1004
00:52:02,400 --> 00:52:02,640
Speaker 2: So I.

1005
00:52:04,600 --> 00:52:07,880
Speaker 5: Thought I'd dislocated my shoulder, like the track has stripped

1006
00:52:07,880 --> 00:52:10,960
Speaker 5: me naked well down to my underwear, and because you know,

1007
00:52:11,000 --> 00:52:13,640
Speaker 5: you sort of think, you don't know with all that adrenine,

1008
00:52:13,680 --> 00:52:19,040
Speaker 5: I'm not sure what injuries you've sustained. And they realized

1009
00:52:19,160 --> 00:52:22,239
Speaker 5: that basically I looked fine on the surface, apart from

1010
00:52:22,239 --> 00:52:24,560
Speaker 5: I had this rhino horn sticking out of my out

1011
00:52:24,600 --> 00:52:28,440
Speaker 5: of my shoulder and I couldn't really figure it. I

1012
00:52:28,440 --> 00:52:30,640
Speaker 5: could still use my arm a little bit, but it

1013
00:52:30,680 --> 00:52:32,200
Speaker 5: was painful, and.

1014
00:52:32,160 --> 00:52:34,680
Speaker 6: Rhino horn sticking out of your shoulder was what it was.

1015
00:52:34,719 --> 00:52:39,120
Speaker 5: My collarbane, okay, but I thought it was just dislocated,

1016
00:52:39,120 --> 00:52:40,319
Speaker 5: and I thought I might be able to pop it

1017
00:52:40,360 --> 00:52:44,359
Speaker 5: all back into place. So by now, it's about six

1018
00:52:44,440 --> 00:52:47,200
Speaker 5: or fifteen in the evening, and as I was explaining earlier,

1019
00:52:47,560 --> 00:52:52,879
Speaker 5: like it's basically two hours flying back to Arusha, and

1020
00:52:52,920 --> 00:52:56,360
Speaker 5: we were about two hours from the air strip, so

1021
00:52:57,239 --> 00:52:59,040
Speaker 5: the whole process was going to take four hours, and

1022
00:52:59,080 --> 00:53:02,440
Speaker 5: we only had half an hour daylight. And we were

1023
00:53:02,480 --> 00:53:05,160
Speaker 5: all members of this thing called flying Doctors, where if

1024
00:53:05,200 --> 00:53:07,160
Speaker 5: you have an incident a plane or fly in with

1025
00:53:07,160 --> 00:53:10,200
Speaker 5: a doctor and you know, basically rescue you and take

1026
00:53:10,200 --> 00:53:12,319
Speaker 5: you back to hospital. But I kind of knew it

1027
00:53:12,320 --> 00:53:14,680
Speaker 5: was too late to call them, so I thought the

1028
00:53:14,680 --> 00:53:18,160
Speaker 5: best plan just get back to the camp, And so

1029
00:53:18,239 --> 00:53:20,239
Speaker 5: I gave her a couple of beers because I knew

1030
00:53:20,280 --> 00:53:22,719
Speaker 5: the shock was only going to help for a little

1031
00:53:22,760 --> 00:53:25,280
Speaker 5: while and I want to keep her sort of calm,

1032
00:53:26,320 --> 00:53:29,480
Speaker 5: And I decided to drive back to camp as a

1033
00:53:29,560 --> 00:53:31,560
Speaker 5: kind of distraction. And also I thought the more I

1034
00:53:31,640 --> 00:53:35,040
Speaker 5: used my shoulder, the less it would stiffen up. So

1035
00:53:35,719 --> 00:53:39,520
Speaker 5: we drove forty five minutes back to our camp, arrived,

1036
00:53:39,760 --> 00:53:42,160
Speaker 5: you know, just after dark, and everyone else had just

1037
00:53:42,280 --> 00:53:47,040
Speaker 5: arrived as well, and so they straight away sort of. Well,

1038
00:53:47,080 --> 00:53:49,440
Speaker 5: my brother lectured me on why didn't I have my rifle,

1039
00:53:49,480 --> 00:53:52,960
Speaker 5: which supers literally the number one rule is you never

1040
00:53:53,040 --> 00:53:55,600
Speaker 5: leave the car without your rifle. And the one time

1041
00:53:55,600 --> 00:53:57,040
Speaker 5: I broke it, this happened.

1042
00:53:57,719 --> 00:53:59,080
Speaker 2: Do you think you would have gotten the shot off

1043
00:53:59,080 --> 00:53:59,680
Speaker 2: if you'd heard it?

1044
00:54:00,120 --> 00:54:01,960
Speaker 5: Yeah, definitely. I mean I had enough time to hit

1045
00:54:02,000 --> 00:54:04,600
Speaker 5: it in the head with a stick, so I think

1046
00:54:04,640 --> 00:54:09,400
Speaker 5: I could have shot it. But anyway, hindsight, it's a

1047
00:54:09,440 --> 00:54:13,279
Speaker 5: lovely thing. But so anyway, we get back and they

1048
00:54:13,560 --> 00:54:16,320
Speaker 5: feed me some painkillers and I have a shower, and

1049
00:54:16,480 --> 00:54:18,799
Speaker 5: it's not beginning to stiffen up a little bit. So

1050
00:54:19,680 --> 00:54:22,160
Speaker 5: we decided to try on YouTube how to relocate your

1051
00:54:22,360 --> 00:54:26,279
Speaker 5: your shoulder. So I'm now lying on the dining room

1052
00:54:26,320 --> 00:54:29,000
Speaker 5: table lifting my arm above my head.

1053
00:54:29,239 --> 00:54:32,160
Speaker 2: No doubt, watch those ads. Everyone knows.

1054
00:54:35,360 --> 00:54:40,439
Speaker 5: Right, and I'm hoping it's going to just pop back

1055
00:54:40,480 --> 00:54:46,359
Speaker 5: in and nothing happens. So eventually the father's like, well,

1056
00:54:46,360 --> 00:54:49,120
Speaker 5: actually we should call my brother in law, who's an

1057
00:54:49,200 --> 00:54:51,840
Speaker 5: orthopedic surgeon's law.

1058
00:54:51,719 --> 00:54:53,840
Speaker 6: Yeah, he's like, is he on YouTube?

1059
00:54:55,600 --> 00:54:58,440
Speaker 5: Luckily we've got Wi Fi and camp so yeah, we

1060
00:54:58,480 --> 00:55:00,440
Speaker 5: have this sort of satellite Wi Fi. So we we

1061
00:55:00,600 --> 00:55:03,520
Speaker 5: FaceTime him and it's it's like four in the morning

1062
00:55:03,560 --> 00:55:07,560
Speaker 5: in the States, and amazingly he answers and he realizes

1063
00:55:07,600 --> 00:55:10,560
Speaker 5: straight away it must be quite serious, and so like, yeah,

1064
00:55:10,560 --> 00:55:12,040
Speaker 5: there's been a bit of an incident, but we really

1065
00:55:12,080 --> 00:55:15,839
Speaker 5: want you just to diagnose this problem. So I like

1066
00:55:15,960 --> 00:55:17,799
Speaker 5: showing my injury and I said that when I bend

1067
00:55:17,840 --> 00:55:20,320
Speaker 5: down like this, it sticks up like a ride a

1068
00:55:20,440 --> 00:55:24,440
Speaker 5: horn and I thought it was dislocated. And he's like, no, no, no,

1069
00:55:24,480 --> 00:55:27,720
Speaker 5: you've you've separated your ac joint and there's no fixing

1070
00:55:27,760 --> 00:55:31,839
Speaker 5: that you need surgery, and so we give up on

1071
00:55:31,880 --> 00:55:40,239
Speaker 5: the YouTube and least opinion, yeah, and he was like, yeah,

1072
00:55:40,239 --> 00:55:42,800
Speaker 5: there's there's three or four grades and you've you've basically

1073
00:55:42,880 --> 00:55:47,360
Speaker 5: done the worst. So there's no hope. And so I

1074
00:55:47,400 --> 00:55:50,319
Speaker 5: go to sleep and we wake up in the morning

1075
00:55:50,400 --> 00:55:53,920
Speaker 5: and I'm pretty stiff, like because also my Sternham everything's

1076
00:55:53,960 --> 00:55:59,040
Speaker 5: been basically just smashed, and so every time someone makes

1077
00:55:59,040 --> 00:56:03,800
Speaker 5: me laugh like I'm literally dying with pain. And anyway,

1078
00:56:03,800 --> 00:56:06,480
Speaker 5: I wake up and I was planning. I was actually

1079
00:56:06,560 --> 00:56:10,239
Speaker 5: leaving the trip in three days anyway, so we're sort

1080
00:56:10,239 --> 00:56:13,120
Speaker 5: of debating whether to call the flying doctors or if

1081
00:56:13,160 --> 00:56:16,920
Speaker 5: I just waited out. And I was flying back to

1082
00:56:17,000 --> 00:56:19,520
Speaker 5: England from Tanzania, and I actually thought this was easier

1083
00:56:19,560 --> 00:56:22,920
Speaker 5: to just stay in camp and there was no blood

1084
00:56:22,920 --> 00:56:24,480
Speaker 5: in my urine because I was the thing I was

1085
00:56:24,520 --> 00:56:28,520
Speaker 5: more worried about was internal injuries. So, I mean, my

1086
00:56:28,600 --> 00:56:31,920
Speaker 5: wife literally killed me when when she eventually found out

1087
00:56:31,920 --> 00:56:35,200
Speaker 5: about all this. But I made the decision to stay

1088
00:56:35,239 --> 00:56:40,439
Speaker 5: and do the last three days of the trip, and yeah,

1089
00:56:40,480 --> 00:56:43,279
Speaker 5: we actually had a pretty successful time. I managed to

1090
00:56:43,320 --> 00:56:46,480
Speaker 5: hunt seit a tunguer in the crocodile or really with

1091
00:56:46,520 --> 00:56:49,200
Speaker 5: one arm. I sort of figured how to hold onto

1092
00:56:49,239 --> 00:56:51,520
Speaker 5: my shirt so I wouldn't move my arm around because

1093
00:56:51,520 --> 00:56:53,360
Speaker 5: it was basically wasn't too painful as long as I

1094
00:56:53,360 --> 00:56:53,719
Speaker 5: didn't move.

1095
00:56:53,840 --> 00:56:56,200
Speaker 6: So did you switch up rifles at that point so

1096
00:56:56,239 --> 00:56:59,680
Speaker 6: you could operate something with one arm? No, because you

1097
00:56:59,800 --> 00:57:00,720
Speaker 6: just out the lecture.

1098
00:57:01,040 --> 00:57:04,239
Speaker 5: Yeah, well so I could with pain, I could use

1099
00:57:04,280 --> 00:57:06,959
Speaker 5: my rifle. I just couldn't lift it above my head.

1100
00:57:07,360 --> 00:57:09,400
Speaker 5: I mean my my arm basically couldn't lift my arm

1101
00:57:09,440 --> 00:57:12,239
Speaker 5: above my head. So I did try. I actually went

1102
00:57:12,320 --> 00:57:13,240
Speaker 5: looking for the buff.

1103
00:57:14,719 --> 00:57:15,799
Speaker 4: So you already tried to find him.

1104
00:57:16,000 --> 00:57:18,200
Speaker 5: I did try and find him, but it was I

1105
00:57:18,320 --> 00:57:20,160
Speaker 5: realized I was actually not being very clever, so we

1106
00:57:20,200 --> 00:57:22,000
Speaker 5: didn't look for it for very long.

1107
00:57:24,640 --> 00:57:28,160
Speaker 4: No, I haven't these guys that set out what do

1108
00:57:28,240 --> 00:57:28,880
Speaker 4: they want to kill?

1109
00:57:29,200 --> 00:57:33,240
Speaker 2: Tiger kills And.

1110
00:57:33,200 --> 00:57:36,120
Speaker 4: It's a whole movie about him trying to find this

1111
00:57:36,120 --> 00:57:39,200
Speaker 4: this exact Jaguars shark and kill it.

1112
00:57:39,200 --> 00:57:41,480
Speaker 2: It's a comedy. But yeah, that's like you.

1113
00:57:41,320 --> 00:57:47,240
Speaker 5: Like father Bounty on the buffalo, the father of the

1114
00:57:47,280 --> 00:57:49,680
Speaker 5: girl that was with me, really and he was like, yeah,

1115
00:57:49,720 --> 00:57:53,000
Speaker 5: any any of your other clients coming through after we leave,

1116
00:57:54,280 --> 00:57:57,880
Speaker 5: I'll pay the game fee. Just you know, we need

1117
00:57:57,880 --> 00:57:59,960
Speaker 5: to to exact a little bit of revenge.

1118
00:58:01,120 --> 00:58:02,919
Speaker 2: I followed the tracks for a little bit a month

1119
00:58:03,000 --> 00:58:05,000
Speaker 2: or so later, couldn't couldn't get on him. So he

1120
00:58:05,080 --> 00:58:06,960
Speaker 2: was still alive. Oh he was out there. Yeah, did

1121
00:58:06,960 --> 00:58:07,720
Speaker 2: he have a bad loop?

1122
00:58:08,200 --> 00:58:08,320
Speaker 5: Uh?

1123
00:58:08,880 --> 00:58:10,960
Speaker 2: The trackers said they could see from the tracks that

1124
00:58:11,000 --> 00:58:13,200
Speaker 2: there was something going on with one of his legs. Yeah,

1125
00:58:13,280 --> 00:58:14,880
Speaker 2: and they were certain it was him. I mean they

1126
00:58:15,600 --> 00:58:17,120
Speaker 2: knew that was that buffalo for sure.

1127
00:58:17,720 --> 00:58:17,880
Speaker 8: Huh.

1128
00:58:18,120 --> 00:58:19,880
Speaker 2: So we went we went for it for a little while,

1129
00:58:19,920 --> 00:58:22,720
Speaker 2: but it just kind of it wasn't viable.

1130
00:58:23,360 --> 00:58:27,760
Speaker 6: Getting out of like his his his convalescent zone.

1131
00:58:27,880 --> 00:58:31,000
Speaker 2: He was within he was within a mile of where

1132
00:58:31,000 --> 00:58:34,080
Speaker 2: he hit Roger, and he was sort of doing the

1133
00:58:34,120 --> 00:58:36,240
Speaker 2: same thing. He was hanging out by those sort of

1134
00:58:36,320 --> 00:58:40,200
Speaker 2: vegetation islands. But he did once when we followed him,

1135
00:58:40,200 --> 00:58:43,600
Speaker 2: he had gone kind of into the woodland and headed

1136
00:58:43,640 --> 00:58:47,120
Speaker 2: towards some thickets and some kind of higher country with

1137
00:58:47,240 --> 00:58:49,400
Speaker 2: swirling wind, and yeah, we just couldn't get on him.

1138
00:58:49,440 --> 00:58:52,360
Speaker 2: So I think I think he you know, I think

1139
00:58:52,360 --> 00:58:54,720
Speaker 2: he's sort of reverting back. Maybe he was doing a

1140
00:58:54,760 --> 00:59:02,760
Speaker 2: little better. Yeah, maybe he lifted his mirale. You had

1141
00:59:02,800 --> 00:59:05,440
Speaker 2: your surgery in the US, in the UK, or you

1142
00:59:05,480 --> 00:59:07,400
Speaker 2: had surgery in the UK and then came here to

1143
00:59:07,480 --> 00:59:07,959
Speaker 2: chill out.

1144
00:59:08,440 --> 00:59:12,400
Speaker 5: Yeah, so we always come over in January anyway, and

1145
00:59:12,520 --> 00:59:16,520
Speaker 5: you know, for the hunting conventions, and I kind of

1146
00:59:16,520 --> 00:59:19,640
Speaker 5: figured it would be a good time to do something

1147
00:59:19,680 --> 00:59:22,680
Speaker 5: different and have a bit of time out from Africa

1148
00:59:22,800 --> 00:59:25,240
Speaker 5: and brought my family over and have been living in

1149
00:59:25,240 --> 00:59:27,240
Speaker 5: the Montana Dream which has been incredible.

1150
00:59:27,360 --> 00:59:29,440
Speaker 4: And when do you got to go back? In about

1151
00:59:29,440 --> 00:59:32,520
Speaker 4: five days, you'll go back to Tanzania. Yeah, and do

1152
00:59:32,600 --> 00:59:33,680
Speaker 4: your summer hunting season.

1153
00:59:33,800 --> 00:59:35,600
Speaker 5: Yeah, so it's all about to kick off.

1154
00:59:36,840 --> 00:59:38,880
Speaker 4: I want I want you guys to talk about trackers.

1155
00:59:39,080 --> 00:59:41,960
Speaker 4: You talk about trackers a lot. And what I thought

1156
00:59:42,040 --> 00:59:44,240
Speaker 4: was interesting when you when you when you guys came

1157
00:59:44,280 --> 00:59:50,720
Speaker 4: for dinner, is uh, you discuss trackers, is like you

1158
00:59:54,280 --> 00:59:55,720
Speaker 4: acquiesced to their judgment.

1159
00:59:56,320 --> 01:00:03,480
Speaker 2: Definitely, Definitely in my view, the trackers sometimes aren't spoken

1160
01:00:03,520 --> 01:00:07,680
Speaker 2: about with the kind of reverence that they deserve. And

1161
01:00:07,920 --> 01:00:10,560
Speaker 2: I would say, for me, as someone that wasn't born

1162
01:00:10,640 --> 01:00:14,080
Speaker 2: into a professional hunting family or born on the African continent,

1163
01:00:14,640 --> 01:00:19,240
Speaker 2: the greatest privilege of doing what I do and being

1164
01:00:19,320 --> 01:00:24,960
Speaker 2: part of this industry is working with those trackers. And

1165
01:00:25,200 --> 01:00:29,000
Speaker 2: the way I see my job is our industry kind

1166
01:00:29,000 --> 01:00:33,479
Speaker 2: of has this sort of trifector and you know, there's

1167
01:00:33,480 --> 01:00:37,240
Speaker 2: obviously the foreign client that makes everything we do possible.

1168
01:00:37,320 --> 01:00:41,920
Speaker 2: You know, that's the revenue source, and then there's the trackers,

1169
01:00:42,360 --> 01:00:44,920
Speaker 2: and then there's the professional hunter. And I see the

1170
01:00:45,000 --> 01:00:47,800
Speaker 2: role of the professional hunter as kind of the glue

1171
01:00:47,920 --> 01:00:52,520
Speaker 2: that binds those two other halves, you know, the tracking

1172
01:00:52,560 --> 01:00:55,040
Speaker 2: team and the foreign client, and kind of brings that

1173
01:00:55,960 --> 01:01:00,760
Speaker 2: unit together to be a successful hunting hunting team. But

1174
01:01:00,880 --> 01:01:05,040
Speaker 2: what they do and the way that they allow us

1175
01:01:05,040 --> 01:01:06,920
Speaker 2: to be able to hunt. You know, it's so funny

1176
01:01:06,960 --> 01:01:12,720
Speaker 2: because you know, oftentimes professional hunting, you know, has its

1177
01:01:12,800 --> 01:01:15,320
Speaker 2: roots in kind of the early you know, the guys

1178
01:01:15,320 --> 01:01:17,840
Speaker 2: we talked about before, you know, the sort of Philip percivals,

1179
01:01:17,840 --> 01:01:20,520
Speaker 2: the FC Salus of the world that kind of opened

1180
01:01:20,560 --> 01:01:22,840
Speaker 2: up a lot of this country. And they're obviously from

1181
01:01:22,880 --> 01:01:25,840
Speaker 2: the European hunting tradition and a lot of that's carried

1182
01:01:25,880 --> 01:01:28,800
Speaker 2: over we you know, we look for old bulls, We

1183
01:01:28,880 --> 01:01:33,320
Speaker 2: hunt males of the species exclusively, you know, which you know,

1184
01:01:33,440 --> 01:01:35,600
Speaker 2: the sort of trophy hunting aspect if you want to

1185
01:01:35,600 --> 01:01:38,400
Speaker 2: call it, that comes from that European tradition. But we

1186
01:01:38,520 --> 01:01:42,400
Speaker 2: hunt in an African way, you know, those the tradition

1187
01:01:42,480 --> 01:01:46,000
Speaker 2: that European hunters or American hunters in many cases have

1188
01:01:46,120 --> 01:01:48,200
Speaker 2: come from. And I know there's some tracking in the

1189
01:01:48,360 --> 01:01:50,640
Speaker 2: in the north Woods and that sort of stuff is

1190
01:01:50,680 --> 01:01:53,360
Speaker 2: you know, either sitting in a stand or spot in stalk.

1191
01:01:53,880 --> 01:01:57,400
Speaker 2: We hunt the African way, which is following animals tracks,

1192
01:01:57,560 --> 01:01:59,800
Speaker 2: and I can't do it. You know, I've been in

1193
01:01:59,840 --> 01:02:04,000
Speaker 2: this industry for a good long while and watched what

1194
01:02:04,120 --> 01:02:08,480
Speaker 2: they do with just keen interest, but oftentimes just amazement

1195
01:02:08,760 --> 01:02:12,360
Speaker 2: at how they're able to sort out tracks that have

1196
01:02:13,040 --> 01:02:15,680
Speaker 2: mingled with other animals. You know, you're following a single

1197
01:02:15,720 --> 01:02:17,680
Speaker 2: buffalo and it mingles with a herd for a while

1198
01:02:17,720 --> 01:02:20,520
Speaker 2: then separates off again. They can sort that out. They

1199
01:02:20,560 --> 01:02:22,920
Speaker 2: can sort out that one animal. Yeah, keep on that

1200
01:02:23,000 --> 01:02:25,440
Speaker 2: one animal. And it's not just buffalo. They can do

1201
01:02:25,480 --> 01:02:26,800
Speaker 2: it for almost any species.

1202
01:02:26,840 --> 01:02:31,720
Speaker 4: What allows them wow, why phenomenal?

1203
01:02:31,880 --> 01:02:36,440
Speaker 2: So a great tracker is both born and made. In

1204
01:02:36,520 --> 01:02:41,920
Speaker 2: my opinion, they have exceptional eyesight, I mean just phenomenal

1205
01:02:41,960 --> 01:02:45,840
Speaker 2: ability to see things up close and in the distance.

1206
01:02:46,320 --> 01:02:51,000
Speaker 2: It's their eyesight is it's borderline superhuman. And they have

1207
01:02:51,440 --> 01:02:55,800
Speaker 2: a great tracker has a feel for what the animals

1208
01:02:55,800 --> 01:03:00,880
Speaker 2: are going to do and also for the terrain that

1209
01:03:00,920 --> 01:03:04,520
Speaker 2: they inhabit and how the animals will use that terrain.

1210
01:03:05,160 --> 01:03:09,120
Speaker 2: And a great tracker, you know, generally speaking, they'll be

1211
01:03:09,200 --> 01:03:11,920
Speaker 2: very familiar with an area that you're hunting in, possibly

1212
01:03:12,000 --> 01:03:14,600
Speaker 2: because they grew up in a similar area or on

1213
01:03:14,680 --> 01:03:17,960
Speaker 2: the periphery of the hunting area that oftentimes from those

1214
01:03:18,000 --> 01:03:22,640
Speaker 2: communities that Roger was talking about before, or you know,

1215
01:03:23,040 --> 01:03:25,520
Speaker 2: and Roger can sort of expand on this because his

1216
01:03:25,600 --> 01:03:27,400
Speaker 2: dad was kind of the master of this. They were

1217
01:03:27,440 --> 01:03:31,440
Speaker 2: a former poacher that basically you know, Robin Hurt Safaris

1218
01:03:31,520 --> 01:03:34,520
Speaker 2: turned straight and brought into the fold as a tracker.

1219
01:03:35,440 --> 01:03:38,960
Speaker 2: And those guys, they you know, they have this intuition

1220
01:03:39,040 --> 01:03:40,800
Speaker 2: about where the animals are going to go, what they're

1221
01:03:40,800 --> 01:03:44,480
Speaker 2: going to do at different times of the day, and

1222
01:03:44,520 --> 01:03:47,960
Speaker 2: you'll get a sense of that. You know, I'm cognizant

1223
01:03:48,000 --> 01:03:49,960
Speaker 2: of some things that are happening. You know, for example,

1224
01:03:50,080 --> 01:03:53,200
Speaker 2: if you're following a buffalo that's coming from water and

1225
01:03:53,240 --> 01:03:55,800
Speaker 2: you see it starts to sort of cast around back

1226
01:03:55,840 --> 01:03:58,120
Speaker 2: and forward, you know, it's looking for a place to

1227
01:03:58,520 --> 01:04:01,720
Speaker 2: lay down, and you'll often think, okay, we're potentially getting

1228
01:04:01,760 --> 01:04:03,920
Speaker 2: clos here. You know, that buffalo is getting ready to bed.

1229
01:04:04,440 --> 01:04:07,320
Speaker 2: But there is so much more that they can intue

1230
01:04:07,320 --> 01:04:09,200
Speaker 2: it from those tracks and from the you know, the

1231
01:04:09,280 --> 01:04:12,040
Speaker 2: marks that the animal makes on the ground that are

1232
01:04:12,120 --> 01:04:16,000
Speaker 2: just beyond my understanding. It's just my ability to interpret.

1233
01:04:16,200 --> 01:04:19,040
Speaker 2: It's second nature to them. I mean the way you were,

1234
01:04:19,080 --> 01:04:20,560
Speaker 2: but you were brought up in this world.

1235
01:04:20,880 --> 01:04:24,040
Speaker 5: Yeah, so, I mean my childhood was spent basically my

1236
01:04:24,360 --> 01:04:26,320
Speaker 5: dad used to hunt ten months of the year.

1237
01:04:26,440 --> 01:04:28,040
Speaker 2: But the trackers are better than you still.

1238
01:04:28,320 --> 01:04:30,080
Speaker 5: Yeah, but the only time I would see him would

1239
01:04:30,080 --> 01:04:33,000
Speaker 5: be to go on safari. So all my holidays were

1240
01:04:33,040 --> 01:04:36,000
Speaker 5: spent on safari. And my favorite part of the day

1241
01:04:36,280 --> 01:04:38,520
Speaker 5: was when the hunters would come back and it was

1242
01:04:38,760 --> 01:04:42,160
Speaker 5: siesta time, and the trackers were like some of my

1243
01:04:42,520 --> 01:04:45,360
Speaker 5: best friends and sort of nannies, and we'd go off

1244
01:04:45,840 --> 01:04:48,920
Speaker 5: adventuring in the middle of the day and set traps

1245
01:04:48,960 --> 01:04:52,520
Speaker 5: for guinea fowl and climb beare bab trees looking for

1246
01:04:52,600 --> 01:04:55,680
Speaker 5: honey and just learning how to make poison arrows. I mean,

1247
01:04:56,160 --> 01:05:00,120
Speaker 5: these guys just they lived off the ground. And as

1248
01:05:00,160 --> 01:05:03,000
Speaker 5: as Morgan was saying, a lot of them were converted

1249
01:05:03,040 --> 01:05:05,960
Speaker 5: poaches and something talk about something.

1250
01:05:06,560 --> 01:05:08,080
Speaker 2: You mentioned that to me when we heard dinner.

1251
01:05:08,160 --> 01:05:10,920
Speaker 5: Yeah, Well, what people didn't realize is there's there's different

1252
01:05:10,960 --> 01:05:15,000
Speaker 5: forms of poaching in Africa. There's the ivory poachers, who

1253
01:05:15,040 --> 01:05:20,480
Speaker 5: are obviously very heavily armed, totally commercial and nasty and

1254
01:05:20,760 --> 01:05:24,360
Speaker 5: you know, zero tolerance and of course you call in

1255
01:05:24,400 --> 01:05:27,080
Speaker 5: the game department if you ever see one. And then

1256
01:05:27,080 --> 01:05:30,640
Speaker 5: there's commercial meat poachers who often all have a rifle

1257
01:05:31,280 --> 01:05:33,880
Speaker 5: and they're going out just to sell the meat, and

1258
01:05:33,920 --> 01:05:36,760
Speaker 5: then you have what I call like the subsistence poacher,

1259
01:05:36,920 --> 01:05:41,120
Speaker 5: the opportunistic poacher who's your average farmer who lives nearby

1260
01:05:41,400 --> 01:05:44,600
Speaker 5: and the temptation to try and get something to feed

1261
01:05:44,600 --> 01:05:48,000
Speaker 5: his family. And some of them even you know, we're

1262
01:05:48,040 --> 01:05:52,200
Speaker 5: traditionally hunter gatherers, you know, by nature, and you know

1263
01:05:52,240 --> 01:05:54,480
Speaker 5: the rules of the world have made them into a poacher.

1264
01:05:56,080 --> 01:06:01,000
Speaker 4: But so an individual might have grew up, yeah, hunting

1265
01:06:01,040 --> 01:06:03,080
Speaker 4: these areas, and at some point someone said that's not

1266
01:06:03,120 --> 01:06:04,160
Speaker 4: how it goes down anymore.

1267
01:06:04,280 --> 01:06:06,880
Speaker 5: Yeah. So, I mean, we used to have a hunting

1268
01:06:06,920 --> 01:06:11,400
Speaker 5: area on the edge of a traditional hunter gatherer tribe's

1269
01:06:11,440 --> 01:06:14,960
Speaker 5: sort of boundary, and they were always coming in to

1270
01:06:15,040 --> 01:06:17,320
Speaker 5: try and hunt something with their bow and arrow, and

1271
01:06:18,760 --> 01:06:21,280
Speaker 5: you'd sort of feel sorry for them and drive them around,

1272
01:06:21,320 --> 01:06:24,520
Speaker 5: threaten that they were potentially going to go to jail.

1273
01:06:25,200 --> 01:06:28,040
Speaker 5: And then my dad would often be like, or you

1274
01:06:28,080 --> 01:06:30,080
Speaker 5: could come and work for me and make a living

1275
01:06:30,400 --> 01:06:35,000
Speaker 5: doing what you're doing and it will be legal. And

1276
01:06:35,080 --> 01:06:37,280
Speaker 5: so a lot of the track has still work for us.

1277
01:06:37,320 --> 01:06:40,160
Speaker 5: They've been with us for forty five years and were

1278
01:06:40,160 --> 01:06:41,760
Speaker 5: ex poaches at the time.

1279
01:06:43,280 --> 01:06:47,120
Speaker 4: Do they enjoy it or is it just that desk

1280
01:06:47,640 --> 01:06:49,760
Speaker 4: or just the situation they were.

1281
01:06:49,680 --> 01:06:52,800
Speaker 5: Dealt, they love it. And the main thing is in Africa,

1282
01:06:52,920 --> 01:06:58,440
Speaker 5: like meat is literally a very rare commodity and placed

1283
01:06:58,680 --> 01:07:03,120
Speaker 5: very high on a sort of pedestal. So for these guys,

1284
01:07:03,280 --> 01:07:05,880
Speaker 5: they weren't actually interested in the money, but when they

1285
01:07:05,920 --> 01:07:08,960
Speaker 5: realized how much meat they were going to get, and

1286
01:07:09,040 --> 01:07:11,240
Speaker 5: you know, to in Africa, most people have meat in

1287
01:07:11,280 --> 01:07:14,960
Speaker 5: their diet maybe once in a week, you know, one

1288
01:07:15,000 --> 01:07:16,680
Speaker 5: meal in a whole week will have meat in it.

1289
01:07:17,240 --> 01:07:20,480
Speaker 5: So for them to be able to literally gorge themselves

1290
01:07:20,480 --> 01:07:23,080
Speaker 5: on as much meat as they can, dry everything that's

1291
01:07:23,160 --> 01:07:26,000
Speaker 5: left over, take some home for their families at the

1292
01:07:26,120 --> 01:07:28,720
Speaker 5: end of the season, I mean that that was why

1293
01:07:28,920 --> 01:07:32,640
Speaker 5: they decided to come and work with us, really, and

1294
01:07:33,280 --> 01:07:34,880
Speaker 5: you know, the only way I can explain it is

1295
01:07:34,920 --> 01:07:38,000
Speaker 5: like the tracking going back to the tracking is like

1296
01:07:38,320 --> 01:07:40,920
Speaker 5: it's it's like reading a newspaper. For them, they look

1297
01:07:40,920 --> 01:07:43,280
Speaker 5: around at the ground and they can see everything that's

1298
01:07:43,320 --> 01:07:46,720
Speaker 5: happened that morning, you see, and you know, they didn't

1299
01:07:46,720 --> 01:07:49,480
Speaker 5: have any interaction with the outside world, so that was

1300
01:07:49,520 --> 01:07:52,280
Speaker 5: their entire focus. So it's a lot of it is

1301
01:07:52,360 --> 01:07:56,320
Speaker 5: born and bred into them. It's yeah, I think there's

1302
01:07:56,320 --> 01:07:59,600
Speaker 5: a lot of it that can't be taught. And yeah,

1303
01:07:59,680 --> 01:08:03,880
Speaker 5: I mean it's not a dark art, right, They're seeing

1304
01:08:03,920 --> 01:08:07,840
Speaker 5: something on the ground, but and oftentimes we can see

1305
01:08:07,840 --> 01:08:11,280
Speaker 5: it too, we just can't interpret it the way they can.

1306
01:08:11,560 --> 01:08:16,719
Speaker 5: And yeah, they're incredible characters to be around, and hearing

1307
01:08:16,720 --> 01:08:18,640
Speaker 5: their stories about how they learned how to do what

1308
01:08:18,680 --> 01:08:21,960
Speaker 5: they do is it's fascinating. It's such a privilege and

1309
01:08:22,000 --> 01:08:26,519
Speaker 5: it's so different from how how people hunt in North

1310
01:08:26,560 --> 01:08:29,560
Speaker 5: America or Europe or anything else. It just, you know,

1311
01:08:29,720 --> 01:08:33,280
Speaker 5: it's it's incredible to see.

1312
01:08:32,479 --> 01:08:36,080
Speaker 4: When you talk about that they dry a lot of meat.

1313
01:08:36,080 --> 01:08:36,920
Speaker 4: How does that go down?

1314
01:08:37,360 --> 01:08:37,439
Speaker 5: Do?

1315
01:08:37,560 --> 01:08:40,679
Speaker 2: I mean? Are there? Because that's not a small task.

1316
01:08:41,000 --> 01:08:46,439
Speaker 5: It's everything. Basically, when when you hunt something successfully, they

1317
01:08:46,880 --> 01:08:50,800
Speaker 5: they skin off you know, the skin and the head

1318
01:08:50,840 --> 01:08:53,440
Speaker 5: and any trophies that the client wants.

1319
01:08:53,520 --> 01:08:54,840
Speaker 2: And the trackers do that work.

1320
01:08:55,040 --> 01:08:57,519
Speaker 5: Yeah, they'll they'll do the easier bits and then it

1321
01:08:57,560 --> 01:08:59,760
Speaker 5: goes back to camp and the skinner will split the

1322
01:08:59,800 --> 01:09:02,240
Speaker 5: lit in the ears and around the all the sort

1323
01:09:02,240 --> 01:09:05,800
Speaker 5: of more complicated bits back in camp. But they'll do

1324
01:09:05,880 --> 01:09:08,680
Speaker 5: the field preparation as such, and then you know a

1325
01:09:08,720 --> 01:09:10,720
Speaker 5: lot of the animals are too big to load into

1326
01:09:10,760 --> 01:09:13,160
Speaker 5: the back of a car, so you'll chop it up

1327
01:09:13,160 --> 01:09:18,519
Speaker 5: into sizeable chunks. But by the time they're finished, everything

1328
01:09:18,520 --> 01:09:21,120
Speaker 5: has been loaded into the car, with the exception of

1329
01:09:21,240 --> 01:09:24,800
Speaker 5: a big pile of grass basically and the lungs, I mean,

1330
01:09:24,840 --> 01:09:28,800
Speaker 5: the stomach lining has taken the intestines. Everything has a

1331
01:09:28,920 --> 01:09:32,680
Speaker 5: use and nothing goes to waste. I mean literally, that's

1332
01:09:32,720 --> 01:09:34,240
Speaker 5: all that's left as a pile of grass.

1333
01:09:34,479 --> 01:09:37,320
Speaker 2: And our camps sort of have like a behind the

1334
01:09:37,360 --> 01:09:41,360
Speaker 2: scenes operation that's processing. Obviously, you know, when you're on

1335
01:09:41,479 --> 01:09:44,639
Speaker 2: Safari as a client, you're eating one hundred percent game.

1336
01:09:45,000 --> 01:09:48,440
Speaker 2: You know, the kitchen in camp is turning out incredible

1337
01:09:48,600 --> 01:09:51,320
Speaker 2: food made from you know, the animals that you hunt.

1338
01:09:51,680 --> 01:09:54,120
Speaker 2: But then there's this sort of whole parallel operation kind

1339
01:09:54,120 --> 01:09:57,200
Speaker 2: of behind the scenes of processing all that all that

1340
01:09:57,280 --> 01:10:03,600
Speaker 2: protein and preserving it through drying and smoking to be

1341
01:10:04,040 --> 01:10:07,759
Speaker 2: a product that our whole team basically can take back

1342
01:10:08,040 --> 01:10:11,920
Speaker 2: to their communities, to their families and just sort of

1343
01:10:11,920 --> 01:10:15,040
Speaker 2: sustain themselves throughout the off season. And it's a huge

1344
01:10:15,160 --> 01:10:19,360
Speaker 2: draw that pulls people into our industry because yeah, that

1345
01:10:19,560 --> 01:10:22,519
Speaker 2: access to protein is just priceless. It's a big deal.

1346
01:10:23,280 --> 01:10:26,360
Speaker 2: And then we support some of those surrounding communities directly

1347
01:10:26,400 --> 01:10:29,000
Speaker 2: with meat as well, will either take fresh meat there

1348
01:10:29,040 --> 01:10:31,720
Speaker 2: if we're in kind of close proximity, or that that

1349
01:10:31,800 --> 01:10:35,599
Speaker 2: dried smoked product will go to the surrounding communities as well,

1350
01:10:36,000 --> 01:10:39,000
Speaker 2: you know, to feed people there. And it's a big deal.

1351
01:10:39,640 --> 01:10:40,200
Speaker 2: What is the.

1352
01:10:42,200 --> 01:10:45,639
Speaker 4: What is the sort of like your trackers are from

1353
01:10:45,640 --> 01:10:46,519
Speaker 4: what cultural group?

1354
01:10:46,680 --> 01:10:48,040
Speaker 2: Only know the rate lingo.

1355
01:10:48,200 --> 01:10:51,040
Speaker 5: So they come from all sorts of different tribes. I

1356
01:10:51,040 --> 01:10:56,000
Speaker 5: mean generally what happens is initially you get people from

1357
01:10:56,000 --> 01:10:59,360
Speaker 5: the area. So in mars Island, most of the trackers

1358
01:10:59,360 --> 01:11:02,519
Speaker 5: of Marsailles because they understand the animals that you get there.

1359
01:11:03,240 --> 01:11:05,559
Speaker 5: That's the amazing thing with Tanzania is the variety of

1360
01:11:05,560 --> 01:11:09,879
Speaker 5: species that we hunt. And different parts of the country

1361
01:11:10,200 --> 01:11:14,280
Speaker 5: have completely different animals. So like in mass Island you

1362
01:11:14,360 --> 01:11:18,160
Speaker 5: have lesser kudu and geranok and the gazelles, and then

1363
01:11:18,200 --> 01:11:20,960
Speaker 5: you go to western Tanzania where you've got the sable

1364
01:11:21,040 --> 01:11:24,839
Speaker 5: and roan antelope and siatungo. So it's it's very different,

1365
01:11:25,479 --> 01:11:27,880
Speaker 5: and so you need people that have grown up with

1366
01:11:28,040 --> 01:11:31,920
Speaker 5: those animals. Yeah, so we've got a whole mix of

1367
01:11:31,920 --> 01:11:34,960
Speaker 5: tribes for you know, each of our camps basically has

1368
01:11:35,400 --> 01:11:39,320
Speaker 5: people from that area, and then the one area basically

1369
01:11:41,200 --> 01:11:44,240
Speaker 5: on the edge of the Serengetti had probably the most

1370
01:11:44,280 --> 01:11:48,000
Speaker 5: amazing trackers that the Hudsonby people. And they're sort of

1371
01:11:48,000 --> 01:11:51,920
Speaker 5: offshoots and they're about the only tribe that really can

1372
01:11:51,960 --> 01:11:55,120
Speaker 5: transfer from one area to another and they're still amazing.

1373
01:11:55,200 --> 01:11:59,720
Speaker 5: Whereas out of Mars Island and he's he's got no

1374
01:11:59,760 --> 01:12:02,920
Speaker 5: idea how to track us another type of animal, but

1375
01:12:03,120 --> 01:12:07,000
Speaker 5: he'll spot a lesser coudoo, you know, half a mile

1376
01:12:07,120 --> 01:12:09,400
Speaker 5: up a valley just with his bare eyes and you

1377
01:12:09,439 --> 01:12:11,200
Speaker 5: can hardly even see it with your binoculars.

1378
01:12:11,200 --> 01:12:15,760
Speaker 2: It's yeah, those guys are ancestral hunter gatherers. So it's

1379
01:12:15,760 --> 01:12:18,439
Speaker 2: sort of it's it's deep deep in them to be

1380
01:12:18,479 --> 01:12:20,760
Speaker 2: able to sort of go anywhere and hunt anything. But

1381
01:12:21,520 --> 01:12:24,120
Speaker 2: you know, one could be forgiven for thinking that, well,

1382
01:12:24,160 --> 01:12:27,000
Speaker 2: what is what is it exactly that the professional hunter does?

1383
01:12:27,400 --> 01:12:30,720
Speaker 2: And it's it's so funny, you know, I've sat with

1384
01:12:30,800 --> 01:12:33,320
Speaker 2: trackers for hours and hours and hours and just talked about,

1385
01:12:33,840 --> 01:12:36,519
Speaker 2: you know, different things related to hunting and their perception

1386
01:12:36,600 --> 01:12:39,040
Speaker 2: of hunting and how it varies from mine and so

1387
01:12:39,080 --> 01:12:41,960
Speaker 2: on and so forth, and like the One bridge that

1388
01:12:42,040 --> 01:12:45,000
Speaker 2: I've never been able One gap I've never been able

1389
01:12:45,000 --> 01:12:50,200
Speaker 2: to bridge is like them seeing an animal as a

1390
01:12:50,280 --> 01:12:53,760
Speaker 2: source of meat and understanding like why we want to

1391
01:12:53,840 --> 01:12:57,040
Speaker 2: go for an old ball, Like when we follow something

1392
01:12:57,080 --> 01:13:00,959
Speaker 2: for eight ten hours in the hot sun and through thickets,

1393
01:13:00,960 --> 01:13:04,040
Speaker 2: you're crawling through like these buffalo holes in the thickets

1394
01:13:04,479 --> 01:13:06,360
Speaker 2: and we get we get up on them, they point

1395
01:13:06,400 --> 01:13:08,679
Speaker 2: them out to me. We close the distance, I put

1396
01:13:08,680 --> 01:13:10,639
Speaker 2: my bino's on it, and I'm like, ah no, they're young.

1397
01:13:10,680 --> 01:13:13,320
Speaker 2: We got to back out of here. Like the muttering

1398
01:13:13,439 --> 01:13:17,240
Speaker 2: and like tongue clicking and like it just looks pretty

1399
01:13:17,240 --> 01:13:19,600
Speaker 2: good to like guys, come on. I mean they're just like,

1400
01:13:19,640 --> 01:13:21,200
Speaker 2: I mean, I know, they're just like what is wrong

1401
01:13:21,240 --> 01:13:23,439
Speaker 2: with these people? You know, like what is this guy's deal?

1402
01:13:23,760 --> 01:13:26,120
Speaker 2: Can't believe it? Like we worked so damn hard and

1403
01:13:26,160 --> 01:13:29,680
Speaker 2: he's walking away. I mean, but yeah, it's just huh.

1404
01:13:29,720 --> 01:13:34,160
Speaker 2: It's like it's that they'll never know, they'll never be

1405
01:13:34,200 --> 01:13:35,760
Speaker 2: able to reconcile, they'll never be able to come to

1406
01:13:35,840 --> 01:13:38,479
Speaker 2: terms with that, and so you know, it's it's funny.

1407
01:13:38,479 --> 01:13:42,040
Speaker 2: There's always this kind of tension around that. But yeah,

1408
01:13:42,080 --> 01:13:46,280
Speaker 2: a great a great Safari team of a professional hunter

1409
01:13:46,320 --> 01:13:49,120
Speaker 2: and trackers that are that are working together and in

1410
01:13:49,280 --> 01:13:51,080
Speaker 2: unison is it's a beautiful.

1411
01:13:50,680 --> 01:13:52,960
Speaker 4: Thing when you go straight off. How many trackers are

1412
01:13:52,960 --> 01:13:53,200
Speaker 4: with you?

1413
01:13:53,920 --> 01:13:59,679
Speaker 2: Two with usually two in reserve, so it'll be you'll

1414
01:13:59,680 --> 01:14:02,400
Speaker 2: have a seen your tracking team that'll usually take the

1415
01:14:02,520 --> 01:14:07,040
Speaker 2: lead if things go long. I mean it is exhausting work, right,

1416
01:14:07,120 --> 01:14:11,600
Speaker 2: It gets very very tedious if things go long, or

1417
01:14:11,600 --> 01:14:14,920
Speaker 2: there's sort of a scenario where, for example, like we

1418
01:14:14,960 --> 01:14:18,000
Speaker 2: were talking about before an animal joins another herd, or

1419
01:14:18,800 --> 01:14:21,599
Speaker 2: an animal's gone through an area and another herd's crossed

1420
01:14:21,600 --> 01:14:24,240
Speaker 2: over and it's kind of confusing. They'll sort of fan

1421
01:14:24,360 --> 01:14:26,639
Speaker 2: out and everyone will sort of work together to kind

1422
01:14:26,640 --> 01:14:29,840
Speaker 2: of sort out what's happening. And then sometimes the kind

1423
01:14:29,840 --> 01:14:32,080
Speaker 2: of the reserve guys will step up if the tracking

1424
01:14:32,160 --> 01:14:35,280
Speaker 2: job's getting long, but it'll be two with two in reserve.

1425
01:14:45,280 --> 01:14:51,760
Speaker 4: What's the impact of like how is poaching felt? Meaning

1426
01:14:51,800 --> 01:14:52,920
Speaker 4: like you could be an American and.

1427
01:14:52,880 --> 01:14:56,519
Speaker 2: You're aware of poaching here, right, but you don't hear

1428
01:14:56,560 --> 01:14:59,360
Speaker 2: about poaching here nearly as much as you hear about

1429
01:14:59,400 --> 01:15:00,160
Speaker 2: poaching and how for.

1430
01:15:01,840 --> 01:15:05,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, and like anti poaching squads and the black market

1431
01:15:05,120 --> 01:15:09,320
Speaker 4: around poaching and documentaries about poaching in Africa, is it?

1432
01:15:10,240 --> 01:15:10,639
Speaker 2: I guess.

1433
01:15:10,720 --> 01:15:13,599
Speaker 5: I guess probably the biggest difference is like a poacher

1434
01:15:13,640 --> 01:15:18,360
Speaker 5: in America is more or less a hunter who just

1435
01:15:18,400 --> 01:15:24,000
Speaker 5: hasn't got the right license, whereas in Tanzania, you know,

1436
01:15:24,520 --> 01:15:28,559
Speaker 5: there's commercial poaches who are out there, you know, trying

1437
01:15:28,600 --> 01:15:32,080
Speaker 5: to hunt elephants, you know, for the ivory, not not

1438
01:15:32,120 --> 01:15:35,840
Speaker 5: even necessarily for meat or for you know, the art

1439
01:15:35,880 --> 01:15:39,680
Speaker 5: of hunting that they're doing it to make a living and.

1440
01:15:39,640 --> 01:15:42,360
Speaker 4: They're part of like but but it's like a criminal syndicate.

1441
01:15:42,479 --> 01:15:47,240
Speaker 2: It is. It is those three tiers that that Roger mentioned.

1442
01:15:47,280 --> 01:15:50,639
Speaker 2: You know, there's the ivory poaches that they're heavily armed

1443
01:15:50,800 --> 01:15:53,760
Speaker 2: and they're they're very aggressive and really there's not a

1444
01:15:53,760 --> 01:15:58,200
Speaker 2: lot that we as Safari operators can do about them.

1445
01:15:58,479 --> 01:16:01,120
Speaker 2: That and and I think that something the Tanzanian government's

1446
01:16:01,200 --> 01:16:04,639
Speaker 2: very cognizant of, and you know they've they've come down

1447
01:16:04,680 --> 01:16:07,360
Speaker 2: a lot harder on that. Tanzani is in an unfortunate

1448
01:16:07,360 --> 01:16:09,519
Speaker 2: position where it has you know, obviously a lot of

1449
01:16:09,560 --> 01:16:14,880
Speaker 2: coastline and seaports, which opens up smuggling potentials to Asia

1450
01:16:15,439 --> 01:16:19,360
Speaker 2: basically for ivory that sort of landlocked African countries don't have,

1451
01:16:19,520 --> 01:16:22,080
Speaker 2: so we've seen a lot of pressure on our elephants,

1452
01:16:23,240 --> 01:16:27,439
Speaker 2: particularly in the early sort of twenty tens. That was

1453
01:16:27,680 --> 01:16:29,320
Speaker 2: you know, it was a big problem and it was

1454
01:16:29,520 --> 01:16:33,559
Speaker 2: keenly felt across almost all of the hunting areas in

1455
01:16:33,560 --> 01:16:38,160
Speaker 2: the country that you know, the presence of those commercial

1456
01:16:38,200 --> 01:16:43,439
Speaker 2: ivory poaches heavily armed was there, and the government realized

1457
01:16:43,479 --> 01:16:46,360
Speaker 2: it and you know, needed to essentially use the army

1458
01:16:46,479 --> 01:16:49,439
Speaker 2: and there are other sort of law enforcement resources to

1459
01:16:49,479 --> 01:16:53,280
Speaker 2: deal with that because it's beyond our scope. Commercial meat

1460
01:16:53,280 --> 01:16:56,800
Speaker 2: poaching is another problem. Often those guys will be armed too,

1461
01:16:57,080 --> 01:16:59,360
Speaker 2: but a lot of times it'll be snares and traps,

1462
01:17:00,080 --> 01:17:02,240
Speaker 2: snares and gin trap type things that are set up

1463
01:17:02,280 --> 01:17:04,240
Speaker 2: and they'll go and check them and can kind of

1464
01:17:04,320 --> 01:17:07,479
Speaker 2: trap like a gin trap is kind of the term

1465
01:17:07,520 --> 01:17:09,000
Speaker 2: we use for it. I'm trying to It's like a

1466
01:17:09,080 --> 01:17:12,439
Speaker 2: leg hold, but giant with a car spring as the

1467
01:17:13,200 --> 01:17:15,640
Speaker 2: like a bear trap. Yeah, it's like a yeah, what

1468
01:17:15,840 --> 01:17:17,559
Speaker 2: what you'd call here a leg hold, you know, with

1469
01:17:17,600 --> 01:17:20,880
Speaker 2: the with like a car spring as the kind of

1470
01:17:20,320 --> 01:17:24,599
Speaker 2: the spring component. So it's it's powerful. It can grab

1471
01:17:24,600 --> 01:17:27,400
Speaker 2: a buffalo, it can grab whatever. Oh yeah, yeah, it

1472
01:17:27,400 --> 01:17:29,880
Speaker 2: can grab a giraffe. And then you know there's other

1473
01:17:30,040 --> 01:17:32,640
Speaker 2: sort of nasty methods those guys will employ. One of

1474
01:17:32,640 --> 01:17:35,439
Speaker 2: them is driving around at night on motorcycles with a

1475
01:17:35,479 --> 01:17:39,919
Speaker 2: spotlight and and kind of spotlighting stuff like like giraffes,

1476
01:17:39,920 --> 01:17:43,040
Speaker 2: for example, and then basically chasing them on the motorbike

1477
01:17:43,120 --> 01:17:48,040
Speaker 2: and like hamstringing them with a machete. Kidding no, unfortunately.

1478
01:17:48,040 --> 01:17:50,040
Speaker 2: And that's for the bush meat trade, that's the wild

1479
01:17:50,080 --> 01:17:54,519
Speaker 2: that's commercial meat trade, so that meat goes consumed where

1480
01:17:54,800 --> 01:17:58,000
Speaker 2: consumed in a lot of the local restaurants, villages, I

1481
01:17:58,000 --> 01:18:00,479
Speaker 2: mean wherever. It's sort of an underground it's a it's

1482
01:18:00,800 --> 01:18:03,200
Speaker 2: you know, you can now, I believe in Tanzania get

1483
01:18:03,200 --> 01:18:06,680
Speaker 2: a permit to sell legally acquired game meat. But in

1484
01:18:07,600 --> 01:18:10,479
Speaker 2: the past, when I first got started in the industry,

1485
01:18:10,560 --> 01:18:14,080
Speaker 2: similar to the US, you couldn't sell meat you know,

1486
01:18:14,160 --> 01:18:17,600
Speaker 2: derived from the hunting industry. It didn't have commercial value.

1487
01:18:18,080 --> 01:18:21,160
Speaker 2: So you know, yeah, there's sort of this underground trade

1488
01:18:21,160 --> 01:18:24,400
Speaker 2: of meat. And then the third tier, like Roger says,

1489
01:18:24,439 --> 01:18:26,680
Speaker 2: which is the guys that you know, that sort of

1490
01:18:26,760 --> 01:18:30,080
Speaker 2: ladder category. Are that that ladder category we can deal with,

1491
01:18:30,200 --> 01:18:33,000
Speaker 2: you know, we can do something about that that sort

1492
01:18:33,040 --> 01:18:36,280
Speaker 2: of you know, commercial meat poacher. Our anti poaching teams

1493
01:18:36,280 --> 01:18:39,439
Speaker 2: are equipped to handle that. And then there's the kind

1494
01:18:39,479 --> 01:18:42,400
Speaker 2: of lone guy who, yeah, he's a subsistence farmer, maybe

1495
01:18:42,479 --> 01:18:44,880
Speaker 2: an elephant came in and wiped out his crop, his

1496
01:18:44,960 --> 01:18:47,840
Speaker 2: family's hungry, you know, grabbed the old muzzle loader that

1497
01:18:47,880 --> 01:18:49,360
Speaker 2: he's got stashed under the bridge.

1498
01:18:49,760 --> 01:18:51,880
Speaker 5: Homemade. I mean a lot of these guns that we're

1499
01:18:51,920 --> 01:18:52,799
Speaker 5: confiscated they've.

1500
01:18:53,040 --> 01:18:55,120
Speaker 2: Made out of a bit of pipe shooting, chunks of

1501
01:18:55,200 --> 01:18:59,200
Speaker 2: rebar that have been swed, yeah, or I've seen I've

1502
01:18:59,200 --> 01:19:04,439
Speaker 2: seen double A back loaded into them as the slug.

1503
01:19:04,960 --> 01:19:07,880
Speaker 2: And so those guys, you know, grab the old muzzle loader,

1504
01:19:08,040 --> 01:19:09,960
Speaker 2: grab the old bow and arrow and head out into

1505
01:19:09,960 --> 01:19:12,200
Speaker 2: the game reserve and try and try and get something

1506
01:19:12,200 --> 01:19:14,600
Speaker 2: for the family. And those are the guys when we

1507
01:19:14,720 --> 01:19:16,920
Speaker 2: catch them, that you know, we have a lot of

1508
01:19:16,960 --> 01:19:18,720
Speaker 2: sympathy for and if we can find a way to

1509
01:19:18,800 --> 01:19:22,920
Speaker 2: incorporate them into our operation, particularly if they're good, and

1510
01:19:22,960 --> 01:19:25,000
Speaker 2: you'll know they're good based on when you get them

1511
01:19:25,040 --> 01:19:26,680
Speaker 2: to lead you back to their camp and you see

1512
01:19:26,720 --> 01:19:32,519
Speaker 2: how much meat they've got, and if they're dialed, it's like,

1513
01:19:33,280 --> 01:19:35,080
Speaker 2: all right, let's see what we can see what we

1514
01:19:35,120 --> 01:19:35,599
Speaker 2: can do here.

1515
01:19:37,120 --> 01:19:40,679
Speaker 6: I do want it. We have enough law enforcement friends

1516
01:19:40,680 --> 01:19:44,080
Speaker 6: where I do have to say that in the US,

1517
01:19:44,479 --> 01:19:48,920
Speaker 6: poaching is prolific and you have a broad spectrum of

1518
01:19:49,000 --> 01:19:53,200
Speaker 6: people who participate, and ranging from like the honest mistake

1519
01:19:53,320 --> 01:19:58,240
Speaker 6: crowd to the people who fit the psychological profile of

1520
01:19:58,320 --> 01:20:02,400
Speaker 6: like a serial killer and they're they're they're poaching so

1521
01:20:02,640 --> 01:20:07,680
Speaker 6: consistently to like scratch that exact same itch, and kind

1522
01:20:07,720 --> 01:20:11,559
Speaker 6: of everything in between two like very well organized groups

1523
01:20:11,560 --> 01:20:15,880
Speaker 6: of people who operate for years and years taking excessive

1524
01:20:15,920 --> 01:20:20,599
Speaker 6: amounts of game for the trophy on the.

1525
01:20:20,560 --> 01:20:23,519
Speaker 2: Wall type of Yeah, it's a good way of putting it.

1526
01:20:24,080 --> 01:20:27,880
Speaker 4: Like, you have some real organized poaching stuff, but it's

1527
01:20:27,880 --> 01:20:30,839
Speaker 4: not feeding a commercial market as much as it's feeding

1528
01:20:31,120 --> 01:20:33,920
Speaker 4: and that ego and social.

1529
01:20:34,160 --> 01:20:38,960
Speaker 6: Scale and the commercial stuff that we read about would be,

1530
01:20:41,320 --> 01:20:45,639
Speaker 6: you know, is very like mom and pop the random

1531
01:20:45,840 --> 01:20:48,720
Speaker 6: butcher shop that is like, yeah, if you bring me

1532
01:20:48,760 --> 01:20:51,360
Speaker 6: a bunch of white tailed deer, I'll turn it into.

1533
01:20:54,040 --> 01:20:58,000
Speaker 2: And we don't mean to downplay the you know, poaching

1534
01:20:58,040 --> 01:20:59,920
Speaker 2: as a as an issue in North America. I think,

1535
01:21:00,080 --> 01:21:02,920
Speaker 2: as you say, it's just got very it's rooted in

1536
01:21:03,160 --> 01:21:08,559
Speaker 2: very different. It's driven very differently. I'm sure even the

1537
01:21:08,640 --> 01:21:12,439
Speaker 2: guy that's out commercial elephant poaching in Tanzania, if you

1538
01:21:12,479 --> 01:21:15,320
Speaker 2: could offer him a steady job that didn't involve that,

1539
01:21:15,400 --> 01:21:18,040
Speaker 2: he'd be more than happy to quit. You know, it's

1540
01:21:18,120 --> 01:21:20,280
Speaker 2: not it's not coming from ego.

1541
01:21:20,080 --> 01:21:20,599
Speaker 5: It's all.

1542
01:21:21,040 --> 01:21:24,840
Speaker 2: It's all from poverty and unfortunately a demand for those

1543
01:21:25,080 --> 01:21:27,519
Speaker 2: you know, those products like an ivory rhino horn on

1544
01:21:27,560 --> 01:21:30,040
Speaker 2: the you know, and the guy lion bones and things

1545
01:21:30,080 --> 01:21:30,679
Speaker 2: like that too.

1546
01:21:31,040 --> 01:21:33,120
Speaker 5: And the guys out in the field are making a

1547
01:21:33,200 --> 01:21:37,160
Speaker 5: fraction of the big kingpins that are selling the ivory

1548
01:21:37,200 --> 01:21:40,400
Speaker 5: on I mean, they'll they'll make a thousand dollars maybe

1549
01:21:40,479 --> 01:21:45,760
Speaker 5: on a pair of ivory horns ivory tusks, and the

1550
01:21:45,800 --> 01:21:49,599
Speaker 5: next guy will sell them for anything from twenty to

1551
01:21:49,640 --> 01:21:50,719
Speaker 5: fifty thousand dollars.

1552
01:21:50,720 --> 01:21:55,160
Speaker 4: You know, let me uh, you might already know this,

1553
01:21:55,240 --> 01:21:59,200
Speaker 4: but just as a way to compare the two.

1554
01:21:59,400 --> 01:22:00,920
Speaker 2: So in the you have.

1555
01:22:03,000 --> 01:22:10,439
Speaker 4: Speaking generally generally, the state's own wildlife. Okay, the states

1556
01:22:10,479 --> 01:22:13,120
Speaker 4: have a state fishing game aide. The state owns a wildlife,

1557
01:22:13,120 --> 01:22:17,519
Speaker 4: whether the wildlife is on private land, state land, federal land.

1558
01:22:17,600 --> 01:22:20,840
Speaker 4: The state has jurisdiction over the wildlife. The state will

1559
01:22:20,840 --> 01:22:25,520
Speaker 4: have a state agency that employs biologists and law enforcement individuals.

1560
01:22:25,600 --> 01:22:29,760
Speaker 4: That state agency, those biologists will make an assessment of

1561
01:22:29,960 --> 01:22:36,679
Speaker 4: population trends, models of how many animals are out there.

1562
01:22:37,520 --> 01:22:43,160
Speaker 4: They'll ascertain what a harvestable surplus would look like. They

1563
01:22:43,200 --> 01:22:47,840
Speaker 4: then take that harvestable surplus and they try to allocate

1564
01:22:48,600 --> 01:22:50,480
Speaker 4: it in a democratic fashion.

1565
01:22:51,760 --> 01:22:52,600
Speaker 2: To the population.

1566
01:22:53,600 --> 01:22:55,760
Speaker 4: So these aren't real numbers, but like we have a

1567
01:22:55,880 --> 01:22:59,840
Speaker 4: thousand deer, we can safely kill two hundred a year.

1568
01:23:00,960 --> 01:23:04,680
Speaker 4: Those two hundred will now be democratically allocated to the

1569
01:23:04,680 --> 01:23:07,920
Speaker 4: best of our ability, to those people who would like

1570
01:23:07,960 --> 01:23:12,719
Speaker 4: to go get one, and then we will govern how, when,

1571
01:23:13,200 --> 01:23:16,639
Speaker 4: why not why? We will govern how and when they

1572
01:23:16,680 --> 01:23:20,320
Speaker 4: go get the surplus we've identified.

1573
01:23:20,479 --> 01:23:24,720
Speaker 6: And Korean It's important to note that the bulk of

1574
01:23:24,840 --> 01:23:31,960
Speaker 6: these state agency funding comes from participation, license and tag sales.

1575
01:23:32,000 --> 01:23:33,599
Speaker 2: Very very important detail.

1576
01:23:34,200 --> 01:23:38,360
Speaker 4: It's quite circular because then them selling them selling the

1577
01:23:38,400 --> 01:23:43,799
Speaker 4: two hundred deer, them selling access to the two hundred

1578
01:23:43,800 --> 01:23:47,520
Speaker 4: deer through buying licenses is how they fund.

1579
01:23:48,280 --> 01:23:51,360
Speaker 5: The research to set the quasis. Yeah, it's it's very

1580
01:23:51,360 --> 01:23:54,320
Speaker 5: similar in Africa that it is. Different countries are very

1581
01:23:54,360 --> 01:23:59,839
Speaker 5: different in it In Tanzania, for example, the land, the wildlife,

1582
01:23:59,840 --> 01:24:03,960
Speaker 5: everything is owned by the government. The quotas are set

1583
01:24:04,560 --> 01:24:07,439
Speaker 5: by the government. We have a government official who comes

1584
01:24:07,439 --> 01:24:09,639
Speaker 5: out hunting with us to make sure we are sticking

1585
01:24:09,640 --> 01:24:10,680
Speaker 5: to all the regulations.

1586
01:24:12,120 --> 01:24:14,320
Speaker 2: Whereas all the time, all the time.

1587
01:24:14,200 --> 01:24:18,080
Speaker 5: Every every hunting party has a game scout government employee.

1588
01:24:18,160 --> 01:24:21,960
Speaker 4: Are you serious, commercial fishing vessels.

1589
01:24:21,680 --> 01:24:25,679
Speaker 2: Yeah here, yeah, yeah, really yeah, at all times and change.

1590
01:24:25,960 --> 01:24:28,880
Speaker 2: Do you imagine if every hunting party in the US. Yeah,

1591
01:24:31,320 --> 01:24:38,280
Speaker 2: there is really it's always present.

1592
01:24:38,960 --> 01:24:42,160
Speaker 5: Regulated, yeah, and you know they're they're there to make

1593
01:24:42,160 --> 01:24:44,200
Speaker 5: sure we abide by all the regulations.

1594
01:24:44,240 --> 01:24:47,800
Speaker 10: What a huge commitment from the agency or whatever the

1595
01:24:47,880 --> 01:24:48,559
Speaker 10: appropriate term.

1596
01:24:48,800 --> 01:24:50,680
Speaker 2: Well, for sure, and they're there and they're they're a

1597
01:24:50,720 --> 01:24:53,320
Speaker 2: great help to you know, when we run into those poachers,

1598
01:24:54,160 --> 01:24:56,920
Speaker 2: we don't have to do a citizen's arrest, you know,

1599
01:24:57,160 --> 01:25:02,240
Speaker 2: or they can are authority. They're they're an agent of

1600
01:25:02,840 --> 01:25:05,479
Speaker 2: the Department of Natural Resources and Tourism.

1601
01:25:05,560 --> 01:25:07,280
Speaker 5: It's the same way with our anti poaching.

1602
01:25:07,320 --> 01:25:08,400
Speaker 4: Are they generally good hunters?

1603
01:25:08,439 --> 01:25:09,840
Speaker 2: Do some of them are? Yeah?

1604
01:25:09,840 --> 01:25:12,360
Speaker 5: A lot of them get passionate about it and you know,

1605
01:25:12,479 --> 01:25:14,640
Speaker 5: enjoy being out in the wilderness light.

1606
01:25:14,920 --> 01:25:16,559
Speaker 6: But you also kind of had a look that said,

1607
01:25:16,600 --> 01:25:20,200
Speaker 6: some of them may be bureaucratically placed there, and are

1608
01:25:20,720 --> 01:25:21,760
Speaker 6: they stick out a little bit?

1609
01:25:22,000 --> 01:25:25,280
Speaker 5: Some some start in the towns and then might get

1610
01:25:25,360 --> 01:25:29,960
Speaker 5: placed out in the field against their wishes. Same and

1611
01:25:30,160 --> 01:25:32,280
Speaker 5: you know, in any.

1612
01:25:31,479 --> 01:25:33,880
Speaker 4: But in your camp. To make sure that you guys

1613
01:25:33,880 --> 01:25:37,240
Speaker 4: aren't doing like what would be the most common bad

1614
01:25:37,360 --> 01:25:38,439
Speaker 4: thing that would happen.

1615
01:25:39,640 --> 01:25:42,760
Speaker 5: Well, I mean we don't. We don't break any of

1616
01:25:42,760 --> 01:25:45,040
Speaker 5: these really, but there are laws like you're not allowed

1617
01:25:45,040 --> 01:25:48,360
Speaker 5: to hunt from a vehicle. You have to be twenty

1618
01:25:48,360 --> 01:25:51,160
Speaker 5: five meters or fifty meters away from a vehicle anytime.

1619
01:25:51,160 --> 01:25:51,439
Speaker 5: You can't.

1620
01:25:51,560 --> 01:25:53,920
Speaker 2: I can't add over water holes, yeah, for example.

1621
01:25:54,040 --> 01:25:56,719
Speaker 4: Also that's I guess that's what I was curious about there.

1622
01:25:56,760 --> 01:25:58,479
Speaker 5: Is we're not allowed to hunt at night.

1623
01:25:58,640 --> 01:26:01,479
Speaker 4: You know, there is interested in methodology as they are,

1624
01:26:01,600 --> 01:26:03,280
Speaker 4: and that you're not killing too much of whatever.

1625
01:26:03,439 --> 01:26:05,760
Speaker 2: I would say a combination of both. Yeah, they're they're

1626
01:26:05,840 --> 01:26:11,360
Speaker 2: making sure that essentially the act of government that you know,

1627
01:26:11,400 --> 01:26:13,960
Speaker 2: that governs what we do. They're there to make sure

1628
01:26:14,000 --> 01:26:16,519
Speaker 2: that we adhere to that. But as much of that

1629
01:26:17,680 --> 01:26:21,519
Speaker 2: as they do, they're also there to support us in

1630
01:26:21,560 --> 01:26:25,599
Speaker 2: our efforts, you know, to combat poaching. Yeah, they're there

1631
01:26:25,640 --> 01:26:30,000
Speaker 2: to be. Yeah, they're essentially the law enforcement arm of

1632
01:26:30,040 --> 01:26:33,400
Speaker 2: the Department of Natural Resources and Tourism that they are

1633
01:26:33,439 --> 01:26:35,759
Speaker 2: able to you know, if we run into a poacher,

1634
01:26:35,880 --> 01:26:37,720
Speaker 2: they're going to make the arrest. They're going to make

1635
01:26:37,760 --> 01:26:40,960
Speaker 2: sure that everything's properly documented and written up and so

1636
01:26:41,000 --> 01:26:43,959
Speaker 2: on and so forth, and take that person into custody,

1637
01:26:44,200 --> 01:26:46,080
Speaker 2: you know, which is something that we don't have the

1638
01:26:46,120 --> 01:26:47,000
Speaker 2: authority to do.

1639
01:26:47,840 --> 01:26:50,960
Speaker 5: So it's very much a combined effort. Our antipaching teams

1640
01:26:50,960 --> 01:26:54,360
Speaker 5: are half our employees of Robin Hurtsparaz and half from

1641
01:26:54,400 --> 01:26:57,559
Speaker 5: the townsan Near Wildlife Department, and they all go out

1642
01:26:57,600 --> 01:27:00,000
Speaker 5: on patrol together and help each other.

1643
01:27:00,040 --> 01:27:01,920
Speaker 2: And you guys are operating out of the same camp.

1644
01:27:02,280 --> 01:27:05,080
Speaker 5: Yeah, they they'll they'll have the hunting.

1645
01:27:04,720 --> 01:27:07,120
Speaker 4: And hunting poachers all kind of at the same time.

1646
01:27:07,400 --> 01:27:10,160
Speaker 5: Yeah, the two go together every time we're out in

1647
01:27:10,200 --> 01:27:12,400
Speaker 5: the field where we're on patrol. You know, we have

1648
01:27:12,479 --> 01:27:15,840
Speaker 5: our actual anti poaching units as well, but but when

1649
01:27:15,840 --> 01:27:19,240
Speaker 5: we're in the field, we're naturally doing anti poaching.

1650
01:27:20,479 --> 01:27:24,799
Speaker 6: So all of Tanzania, you are not allowed to hunt

1651
01:27:25,120 --> 01:27:25,880
Speaker 6: the water horse.

1652
01:27:26,320 --> 01:27:29,280
Speaker 2: No one can apart.

1653
01:27:29,080 --> 01:27:33,479
Speaker 5: From a few animals crocodile, wait a tunga water. But

1654
01:27:33,680 --> 01:27:37,240
Speaker 5: there's there's a few very specific animals that so other

1655
01:27:37,320 --> 01:27:41,439
Speaker 5: than aquatic semi aquatic species that you're just not I mean, like,

1656
01:27:41,720 --> 01:27:44,040
Speaker 5: you know, crocodiles in the water all the time.

1657
01:27:44,080 --> 01:27:46,599
Speaker 2: You know, there's an exception for that. But we can't

1658
01:27:46,600 --> 01:27:48,479
Speaker 2: sit over water and wait for a buffalo to come

1659
01:27:48,520 --> 01:27:48,880
Speaker 2: and drink.

1660
01:27:49,200 --> 01:27:52,639
Speaker 4: It seems so nitpicky for Africa someone has never been

1661
01:27:52,680 --> 01:27:54,680
Speaker 4: there and has no idea what I'm talking about.

1662
01:27:54,680 --> 01:27:58,479
Speaker 5: It was a little more, but it makes it a challenge,

1663
01:27:58,479 --> 01:28:00,280
Speaker 5: which to me, half of what hunting about.

1664
01:28:00,439 --> 01:28:05,160
Speaker 2: And these rules weren't weren't set twenty years ago, thirty

1665
01:28:05,240 --> 01:28:08,559
Speaker 2: years ago. These rules have been around, you know, since

1666
01:28:08,600 --> 01:28:13,800
Speaker 2: the early days. I would say probably Roosevelt Safari era.

1667
01:28:14,040 --> 01:28:16,720
Speaker 2: It was probably a little looser, but for sure there

1668
01:28:16,760 --> 01:28:18,840
Speaker 2: would have been a concept of, oh, you know, we

1669
01:28:18,920 --> 01:28:21,400
Speaker 2: don't shoot stuff over water. You know, we don't shoot

1670
01:28:21,400 --> 01:28:24,080
Speaker 2: big we don't shoot big tuskers, big elephants over water.

1671
01:28:24,120 --> 01:28:26,400
Speaker 2: We track them from the water hole, and that that

1672
01:28:26,600 --> 01:28:30,800
Speaker 2: ethic would have been. These things are basically ethics that

1673
01:28:30,840 --> 01:28:35,960
Speaker 2: the East African Professional Hunters Association sort of held, you know,

1674
01:28:36,160 --> 01:28:39,719
Speaker 2: held their members to account with these sort of ethical

1675
01:28:39,720 --> 01:28:43,639
Speaker 2: guidelines that then got sort of enshrined into law and

1676
01:28:43,680 --> 01:28:48,000
Speaker 2: that we now are absolutely bound to both ethically and legally.

1677
01:28:48,120 --> 01:28:52,400
Speaker 10: Would you say that they're complex or I mean, like

1678
01:28:52,880 --> 01:28:54,760
Speaker 10: how hard would it be for someone to step in

1679
01:28:54,840 --> 01:28:57,679
Speaker 10: and understand the regulatory regime.

1680
01:28:57,880 --> 01:29:00,719
Speaker 5: That's why we do like to become a professional hunter,

1681
01:29:01,040 --> 01:29:03,559
Speaker 5: you do a two year apprenticeship and then you have

1682
01:29:03,600 --> 01:29:06,080
Speaker 5: to sit an exam on the law. I mean, because

1683
01:29:06,080 --> 01:29:10,760
Speaker 5: every species there's there's different rules. Like to hunter a

1684
01:29:10,840 --> 01:29:12,559
Speaker 5: male leopard, first of all, it's got to be male,

1685
01:29:12,680 --> 01:29:15,840
Speaker 5: but it's got to be over a certain length or

1686
01:29:16,080 --> 01:29:19,040
Speaker 5: you know, it can be confiscated. And same with a

1687
01:29:19,120 --> 01:29:23,080
Speaker 5: lion has to be aged in Tanzanier and if it's

1688
01:29:23,360 --> 01:29:25,800
Speaker 5: under seven there's a fine and it can be confiscated

1689
01:29:25,800 --> 01:29:27,080
Speaker 5: if it's under another age.

1690
01:29:27,160 --> 01:29:29,519
Speaker 4: So so when people like to point out that Cecil

1691
01:29:29,600 --> 01:29:32,679
Speaker 4: the lion was thirteen, he couldn't have been under seven

1692
01:29:33,960 --> 01:29:34,720
Speaker 4: in Tanzaniera.

1693
01:29:35,479 --> 01:29:37,920
Speaker 5: You have to hunt a seven year old, a seven

1694
01:29:38,000 --> 01:29:41,400
Speaker 5: year old or older. And I mean the cecil thing

1695
01:29:41,520 --> 01:29:46,160
Speaker 5: is is something that sort of hits a bone.

1696
01:29:47,000 --> 01:29:50,519
Speaker 2: Finally enough, we've been laboring. It's been an albatross around

1697
01:29:50,520 --> 01:29:53,200
Speaker 2: our neck for like, however many years it's been now

1698
01:29:53,640 --> 01:29:56,160
Speaker 2: and I mean it had a real impact for us.

1699
01:29:56,400 --> 01:30:01,479
Speaker 2: It Okay, go on, I mean Roger can go into

1700
01:30:01,520 --> 01:30:04,559
Speaker 2: it a little more. But we've both seen and know

1701
01:30:04,680 --> 01:30:08,920
Speaker 2: of anecdotally and seen with our own eyes areas that

1702
01:30:09,160 --> 01:30:14,920
Speaker 2: were perhaps not the most productive area from the standpoint

1703
01:30:14,920 --> 01:30:18,200
Speaker 2: of there wasn't a big ticket item from a planes

1704
01:30:18,240 --> 01:30:21,080
Speaker 2: game standpoint, didn't have a good population of sable or

1705
01:30:21,160 --> 01:30:24,599
Speaker 2: ronandelope for not a big variety, you know, it had

1706
01:30:24,680 --> 01:30:29,080
Speaker 2: like buffalo and lions, and the lions because of the

1707
01:30:29,800 --> 01:30:33,120
Speaker 2: population of them, there would be enough of a big

1708
01:30:33,160 --> 01:30:36,160
Speaker 2: ticket item that you could generate if you could sell

1709
01:30:36,160 --> 01:30:38,479
Speaker 2: a couple of lion hunts a year, one maybe two,

1710
01:30:38,880 --> 01:30:41,639
Speaker 2: you know, again abiding by those rules of harvesting those

1711
01:30:41,640 --> 01:30:45,479
Speaker 2: old lions, you would be able to sustain and justify it,

1712
01:30:45,800 --> 01:30:49,120
Speaker 2: you know, having that area as part of your company's

1713
01:30:49,280 --> 01:30:52,759
Speaker 2: concessions and doing anti poaching so on and so forth.

1714
01:30:53,240 --> 01:30:57,479
Speaker 2: We can literally point to areas where with cecil that

1715
01:30:57,600 --> 01:31:00,679
Speaker 2: rug was pulled out from under us. Clients weren't booking

1716
01:31:00,720 --> 01:31:04,400
Speaker 2: those lion hunts. The outfitter can't make money from that

1717
01:31:04,479 --> 01:31:07,880
Speaker 2: area anymore, gave it back to the government. Essentially, I

1718
01:31:07,920 --> 01:31:08,519
Speaker 2: mean we left the.

1719
01:31:08,439 --> 01:31:11,960
Speaker 5: Paper records are there. There was before cecil, there was

1720
01:31:11,960 --> 01:31:18,000
Speaker 5: one hundred and sixty hunting concessions in Tanzania, and within

1721
01:31:18,680 --> 01:31:21,840
Speaker 5: three or four years of that, the government basically I

1722
01:31:21,920 --> 01:31:25,519
Speaker 5: mean that the hunting outfitters had returned a lot of

1723
01:31:25,560 --> 01:31:28,160
Speaker 5: these least because they didn't have the business for them,

1724
01:31:28,439 --> 01:31:31,760
Speaker 5: and it dropped to one hundred and twenty and those

1725
01:31:31,840 --> 01:31:35,960
Speaker 5: forty areas, the sort of fringe areas, they then had

1726
01:31:36,040 --> 01:31:38,800
Speaker 5: no use. And I watched it with my own eyes

1727
01:31:38,840 --> 01:31:44,080
Speaker 5: some of our neighboring concessions where everything went wasn't It

1728
01:31:44,120 --> 01:31:47,080
Speaker 5: had a negative impact on everything, Like there wasn't a

1729
01:31:47,120 --> 01:31:50,960
Speaker 5: tree left, because if no one was looking after that area,

1730
01:31:51,439 --> 01:31:54,599
Speaker 5: the local villagers would use it for something. So first

1731
01:31:54,600 --> 01:31:57,120
Speaker 5: of all, the loggers would move in cut all the trees.

1732
01:31:57,240 --> 01:31:59,920
Speaker 5: Then the illegal grazing would come in and there's no

1733
01:32:00,200 --> 01:32:03,599
Speaker 5: there to sort of stop it. And then after that

1734
01:32:03,680 --> 01:32:06,439
Speaker 5: then the farmers would come in and you know, plant

1735
01:32:06,479 --> 01:32:10,200
Speaker 5: their crops, and within literally a year to two years,

1736
01:32:10,640 --> 01:32:15,080
Speaker 5: this pristine wilderness area was just farmland without breathing, living

1737
01:32:15,760 --> 01:32:16,559
Speaker 5: wild creature.

1738
01:32:16,760 --> 01:32:18,960
Speaker 4: So you believe I mean you're saying this, That's why

1739
01:32:18,960 --> 01:32:21,920
Speaker 4: I clarify you the we call him Cecil.

1740
01:32:22,200 --> 01:32:30,200
Speaker 11: Yeah, the Cecil Lion debarcle everyone had the right actually

1741
01:32:30,280 --> 01:32:35,400
Speaker 11: led to land, actually led to abandonment of hunting lands

1742
01:32:35,479 --> 01:32:36,479
Speaker 11: which were then developed.

1743
01:32:36,520 --> 01:32:40,640
Speaker 5: I mean we're talking that's probably forty million acres of

1744
01:32:40,760 --> 01:32:44,160
Speaker 5: wilderness that was lost because of the Cecil incident.

1745
01:32:44,240 --> 01:32:45,799
Speaker 2: Really, I have no trouble.

1746
01:32:45,840 --> 01:32:49,360
Speaker 5: It didn't even happen in Tanzania, but it's it's a.

1747
01:32:49,360 --> 01:32:51,240
Speaker 2: Fact happening Zimbabwe.

1748
01:32:51,720 --> 01:32:53,840
Speaker 4: There's a there's a high roller here in town. He's

1749
01:32:53,920 --> 01:32:57,400
Speaker 4: kind of not he's operating here and he didn't grow

1750
01:32:57,479 --> 01:33:00,360
Speaker 4: up unting. And I heard how he's going to Africa

1751
01:33:00,400 --> 01:33:04,599
Speaker 4: go hunting, but his wife has forbade him shooting a lane.

1752
01:33:04,800 --> 01:33:07,840
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, and that's that's what it did is a

1753
01:33:07,920 --> 01:33:08,400
Speaker 5: lot of people.

1754
01:33:08,600 --> 01:33:12,880
Speaker 2: She doesn't want their holiday home burned down. But it

1755
01:33:12,920 --> 01:33:13,559
Speaker 2: made people.

1756
01:33:13,840 --> 01:33:16,720
Speaker 5: It didn't just affect lion hunting. It affected hunting in

1757
01:33:16,800 --> 01:33:20,560
Speaker 5: Africa full stop. Your avid hunters would still come, but

1758
01:33:20,640 --> 01:33:24,639
Speaker 5: a lot of the middle ground for a few years. Well,

1759
01:33:25,360 --> 01:33:27,120
Speaker 5: I work with will feel about this.

1760
01:33:27,640 --> 01:33:31,360
Speaker 2: We have Tanzania has forty percent of Africa's wild lions

1761
01:33:32,000 --> 01:33:36,519
Speaker 2: in Tanzania within the borders of forty percent of Africa's

1762
01:33:36,520 --> 01:33:41,240
Speaker 2: wild lions. So we were hit hardest because that for

1763
01:33:41,360 --> 01:33:43,679
Speaker 2: a lot of these areas, that was our big ticket item,

1764
01:33:43,680 --> 01:33:45,759
Speaker 2: you know, that was our draw card. We could offer

1765
01:33:46,200 --> 01:33:51,599
Speaker 2: a really well done lion hunt that we could back

1766
01:33:51,720 --> 01:33:55,799
Speaker 2: up with with actual conservation data. I mean, Oxford University

1767
01:33:55,880 --> 01:33:59,760
Speaker 2: did a study that basically showed in an ecosystem in

1768
01:34:00,000 --> 01:34:04,320
Speaker 2: central Tanzania that there's no discernible difference between the populations

1769
01:34:04,320 --> 01:34:06,880
Speaker 2: of lions and leopards, So those sort of top predators

1770
01:34:07,200 --> 01:34:11,240
Speaker 2: and in the photographic hunting areas versus the hunting areas

1771
01:34:11,280 --> 01:34:13,160
Speaker 2: that have a sustainable off take.

1772
01:34:13,800 --> 01:34:17,519
Speaker 5: You we actually funded our own population studies of both

1773
01:34:17,600 --> 01:34:21,160
Speaker 5: lion and leopard in our hunting areas because again most

1774
01:34:21,160 --> 01:34:24,320
Speaker 5: of the research was done in the national parks where

1775
01:34:24,360 --> 01:34:27,439
Speaker 5: it was comfortable and easy for the scientists. So we

1776
01:34:27,960 --> 01:34:33,439
Speaker 5: paid for some researchers from Kingsville actually to come come

1777
01:34:33,479 --> 01:34:36,080
Speaker 5: out and study the lines for two years and the

1778
01:34:36,160 --> 01:34:40,240
Speaker 5: leopard and make population to check that our quotas were

1779
01:34:40,280 --> 01:34:42,160
Speaker 5: actually within the right regions.

1780
01:34:42,600 --> 01:34:44,679
Speaker 4: So do you have line do you have.

1781
01:34:46,120 --> 01:34:48,439
Speaker 2: In your areas? Do you have.

1782
01:34:48,479 --> 01:34:52,559
Speaker 4: Lion lions that you could hunt? But there's no clients

1783
01:34:52,560 --> 01:34:53,840
Speaker 4: that want to buy that lion to egg.

1784
01:34:53,960 --> 01:34:54,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely.

1785
01:34:55,680 --> 01:34:59,000
Speaker 5: And the other thing that the reality of it all

1786
01:34:59,120 --> 01:35:02,519
Speaker 5: is is in the wild, very few lions make it

1787
01:35:02,640 --> 01:35:06,719
Speaker 5: over the seven year you know, age restriction for hunting

1788
01:35:07,320 --> 01:35:10,360
Speaker 5: because it's not like living in the Serengetti where there's

1789
01:35:10,400 --> 01:35:16,120
Speaker 5: just plentiful wildlife everywhere. It's a tough life. And these younger,

1790
01:35:16,520 --> 01:35:20,559
Speaker 5: stronger lions come in and they push those older males

1791
01:35:20,600 --> 01:35:23,160
Speaker 5: out into these fringe areas. They get injured, they can't

1792
01:35:23,160 --> 01:35:26,840
Speaker 5: feed themselves, they die a pretty nasty death. So for

1793
01:35:26,920 --> 01:35:30,479
Speaker 5: one to find a lion over the seven year ages

1794
01:35:30,640 --> 01:35:32,839
Speaker 5: is very hard. And then the pressure on a professional

1795
01:35:32,880 --> 01:35:36,719
Speaker 5: hunter that he's got a judge that it's definitely over

1796
01:35:36,800 --> 01:35:38,960
Speaker 5: seven years old by just looking at it.

1797
01:35:39,000 --> 01:35:40,599
Speaker 2: What are you looking at when you look at it.

1798
01:35:41,000 --> 01:35:43,719
Speaker 5: There's a whole range of things from.

1799
01:35:43,920 --> 01:35:48,519
Speaker 2: Those coloration, main development, color of their shape, color of

1800
01:35:48,520 --> 01:35:51,519
Speaker 2: their teeth, they have these glandular patches sort of on

1801
01:35:51,560 --> 01:35:55,439
Speaker 2: their back, how they've developed. I mean, it's it's an

1802
01:35:55,439 --> 01:35:59,120
Speaker 2: inexact science. Trail cameras are a real help because we

1803
01:35:59,160 --> 01:36:02,680
Speaker 2: can get helpful on that kind of stuff. Yeah, a

1804
01:36:02,720 --> 01:36:03,080
Speaker 2: little bit.

1805
01:36:03,120 --> 01:36:04,360
Speaker 5: It comes down to you a judgment.

1806
01:36:04,520 --> 01:36:06,600
Speaker 2: They're gonna say it's a huge lion no matter what,

1807
01:36:07,360 --> 01:36:09,000
Speaker 2: and it might be a three year old. They're gonna

1808
01:36:09,000 --> 01:36:11,080
Speaker 2: be liket some on stut and it's like people here

1809
01:36:11,120 --> 01:36:17,560
Speaker 2: with mountain lions. Yeah, big old tomta Yeah yeah, totally

1810
01:36:17,640 --> 01:36:18,160
Speaker 2: black bear.

1811
01:36:18,520 --> 01:36:21,320
Speaker 6: So we were coming down the road looking for turkeys

1812
01:36:21,400 --> 01:36:25,240
Speaker 6: last weekend and there's a black bear about the size

1813
01:36:25,280 --> 01:36:27,840
Speaker 6: of my dog, a little white patch on his chest. Yeah,

1814
01:36:27,880 --> 01:36:30,439
Speaker 6: and he's sitting like my dog, one leg kind of

1815
01:36:30,479 --> 01:36:32,800
Speaker 6: kicked out on his back like this wait, literally waiting

1816
01:36:32,800 --> 01:36:36,320
Speaker 6: for cars to get down the road, you know. And

1817
01:36:37,080 --> 01:36:39,120
Speaker 6: I turned my buddy Kyler after he passed, and I

1818
01:36:39,160 --> 01:36:43,040
Speaker 6: was like, knowing the area, I was like, you know,

1819
01:36:43,479 --> 01:36:46,760
Speaker 6: let's swing around, show that little little guy off the

1820
01:36:46,840 --> 01:36:49,719
Speaker 6: road a little bit. And when we had flipped around,

1821
01:36:50,320 --> 01:36:52,479
Speaker 6: there was another There's like a truck down the road

1822
01:36:52,560 --> 01:36:55,360
Speaker 6: like piling junk out of the like obviously digging for

1823
01:36:55,360 --> 01:37:01,639
Speaker 6: their rifle. I just felt, I was like, we really care.

1824
01:37:02,160 --> 01:37:06,400
Speaker 2: Yeah. It's one of those things where in an area

1825
01:37:06,439 --> 01:37:09,680
Speaker 2: where there's a thriving lion population, it won't be just

1826
01:37:09,920 --> 01:37:13,600
Speaker 2: one male with a pride. It'll be often a coalition,

1827
01:37:14,280 --> 01:37:17,760
Speaker 2: and those males will frequently be related. They'll be sort

1828
01:37:17,800 --> 01:37:22,120
Speaker 2: of littermates, so like cousins, brothers, sometimes a father and

1829
01:37:22,240 --> 01:37:25,280
Speaker 2: sons that will sort of, you know, sort of run

1830
01:37:25,320 --> 01:37:28,280
Speaker 2: that pride. They might run multiple prides, so there might

1831
01:37:28,320 --> 01:37:31,920
Speaker 2: be two different groups of females x number of miles apart,

1832
01:37:31,960 --> 01:37:34,000
Speaker 2: and there's this kind of coalition of males that have

1833
01:37:34,080 --> 01:37:36,840
Speaker 2: sort of split their attention or kind of you know,

1834
01:37:36,920 --> 01:37:41,320
Speaker 2: coordinate to run these prides. What will happen as those

1835
01:37:41,400 --> 01:37:44,719
Speaker 2: lions age, you know, they get they get weaker and weaker,

1836
01:37:45,520 --> 01:37:47,759
Speaker 2: and there'll be this there's this other sort of class

1837
01:37:47,800 --> 01:37:52,479
Speaker 2: of lions that's nomads, and those will be basically the

1838
01:37:52,560 --> 01:37:55,800
Speaker 2: young males of those prides that the coalition that haven't

1839
01:37:55,880 --> 01:37:58,439
Speaker 2: joined the coalition, and the coalition won't tolerate them once

1840
01:37:58,439 --> 01:38:00,880
Speaker 2: they get to a certain age, they'll kick him out

1841
01:38:01,160 --> 01:38:04,240
Speaker 2: and so they become, you know, the young nomads. They're

1842
01:38:04,320 --> 01:38:08,040
Speaker 2: out in the wilderness, you know, sometimes in groups, sometimes alone,

1843
01:38:08,360 --> 01:38:12,360
Speaker 2: kind of basically building themselves up, doing a lot of hunting,

1844
01:38:12,680 --> 01:38:14,919
Speaker 2: doing a lot of kind of bonding with their future

1845
01:38:15,120 --> 01:38:18,640
Speaker 2: kind of coalition mates, and getting themselves ready to go

1846
01:38:18,720 --> 01:38:21,439
Speaker 2: challenge for one of those prides. And then the other

1847
01:38:21,520 --> 01:38:25,120
Speaker 2: category of nomads is ones that have been basically kicked

1848
01:38:25,160 --> 01:38:28,000
Speaker 2: out as a result of one of those battles for dominance.

1849
01:38:28,400 --> 01:38:30,800
Speaker 2: And when the battle for dominance happens a lot of

1850
01:38:30,800 --> 01:38:33,000
Speaker 2: times that will result in the death of those older

1851
01:38:33,080 --> 01:38:36,719
Speaker 2: lions or any number of the lions.

1852
01:38:36,840 --> 01:38:39,400
Speaker 5: There was a brutal video from the Serengetti the other

1853
01:38:39,479 --> 01:38:42,880
Speaker 5: day of like literally the king of the Serengetti being

1854
01:38:43,000 --> 01:38:44,719
Speaker 5: wiped out by three younger males.

1855
01:38:44,720 --> 01:38:45,960
Speaker 2: I mean just getting told.

1856
01:38:46,080 --> 01:38:47,040
Speaker 5: It's a nasty ending.

1857
01:38:48,040 --> 01:38:51,280
Speaker 2: But the ones that survive go will then go into

1858
01:38:51,360 --> 01:38:55,160
Speaker 2: that nomad phase again. But he's never coming back to

1859
01:38:55,280 --> 01:38:56,200
Speaker 2: Pride dominance.

1860
01:38:57,160 --> 01:38:58,760
Speaker 4: He's he's not building up.

1861
01:38:58,880 --> 01:39:00,879
Speaker 2: He's on the downswing.

1862
01:39:00,960 --> 01:39:01,720
Speaker 5: He's done his job.

1863
01:39:01,800 --> 01:39:05,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's on the downd. That's the only one we're

1864
01:39:05,160 --> 01:39:08,800
Speaker 2: going to find. We can't shoot. We can't shoot a

1865
01:39:08,840 --> 01:39:13,599
Speaker 2: Pride male ethically because if you upset the balance of

1866
01:39:13,640 --> 01:39:17,960
Speaker 2: that coalition, what will happen is it'll it'll just be

1867
01:39:18,040 --> 01:39:21,320
Speaker 2: inherently weaker having lost one of its members, which can

1868
01:39:21,479 --> 01:39:26,200
Speaker 2: precipitate that Pride takeover from another group of males. And

1869
01:39:26,320 --> 01:39:29,040
Speaker 2: what that'll do is once those males take over, if

1870
01:39:29,040 --> 01:39:33,400
Speaker 2: there's any cubs from the previous males, they'll kill them.

1871
01:39:33,560 --> 01:39:36,840
Speaker 2: And that has a physiological effect on the females, brings

1872
01:39:36,880 --> 01:39:39,880
Speaker 2: them back into into season, brings it back into estros,

1873
01:39:39,960 --> 01:39:43,160
Speaker 2: so then those new males can breed them. So it's

1874
01:39:43,200 --> 01:39:44,360
Speaker 2: like the romans.

1875
01:39:45,920 --> 01:39:50,519
Speaker 6: Real similar to ours here though, right so number one

1876
01:39:50,640 --> 01:39:53,800
Speaker 6: killer of mountain lions as mountain lions, but is that

1877
01:39:53,840 --> 01:39:58,160
Speaker 6: predatory or it can be bought, but typically males or

1878
01:39:58,240 --> 01:40:01,320
Speaker 6: killing males, but also the exact same like males are

1879
01:40:01,400 --> 01:40:05,800
Speaker 6: killing kittens because that female will come back into that then,

1880
01:40:06,439 --> 01:40:07,160
Speaker 6: like right.

1881
01:40:07,040 --> 01:40:11,719
Speaker 4: Away, yeah, when they do, uh with coastal brown bears,

1882
01:40:12,439 --> 01:40:16,880
Speaker 4: when you do, like what are they eating? If you

1883
01:40:16,920 --> 01:40:20,320
Speaker 4: were to list like what a mature male coastal brown

1884
01:40:20,360 --> 01:40:24,639
Speaker 4: bears diet is high on the list is brown bears.

1885
01:40:24,920 --> 01:40:26,680
Speaker 2: I told a woman that at a potty one time,

1886
01:40:26,720 --> 01:40:29,040
Speaker 2: and she was just incredulous. She nearly clowed my eyes.

1887
01:40:30,240 --> 01:40:33,000
Speaker 2: It's regarded as like a primary food source. Yeah, I mean,

1888
01:40:33,040 --> 01:40:35,440
Speaker 2: I have no trouble a primary.

1889
01:40:35,040 --> 01:40:36,920
Speaker 5: Food source fishermen.

1890
01:40:38,280 --> 01:40:40,280
Speaker 6: Isn't it so funny though? It's like, well, what is

1891
01:40:40,320 --> 01:40:42,880
Speaker 6: your agenda with that? And you're like, well, no, it's

1892
01:40:42,960 --> 01:40:44,280
Speaker 6: just what that's what happens.

1893
01:40:46,000 --> 01:40:50,679
Speaker 4: They got you guys have largely Maybe I'm getting this wrong.

1894
01:40:51,240 --> 01:40:57,599
Speaker 4: But you guys have been for different reasons moved out

1895
01:40:57,640 --> 01:40:59,759
Speaker 4: of the elephant hunting business.

1896
01:41:00,320 --> 01:41:05,320
Speaker 5: Well, we as a company made a choice about twenty

1897
01:41:05,439 --> 01:41:10,439
Speaker 5: years ago that we couldn't ethically hunt elephants in our

1898
01:41:10,560 --> 01:41:13,479
Speaker 5: hunting areas in Tanzania. The poaching got so bad about

1899
01:41:13,520 --> 01:41:17,879
Speaker 5: fifteen years ago that you know, for a mature elephant

1900
01:41:17,960 --> 01:41:22,320
Speaker 5: with big ivory, it takes fifty sixty years to get

1901
01:41:22,360 --> 01:41:24,599
Speaker 5: to that level, and I.

1902
01:41:24,560 --> 01:41:30,200
Speaker 12: Think they're all so really to get to the point

1903
01:41:30,680 --> 01:41:34,559
Speaker 12: that we would feel comfortable hunting one again would take

1904
01:41:34,560 --> 01:41:37,840
Speaker 12: another twenty thirty years from now just to build up

1905
01:41:37,880 --> 01:41:41,280
Speaker 12: those populations to an ethical level for us.

1906
01:41:41,400 --> 01:41:45,479
Speaker 5: But there's still ethical you know, government limits. But we

1907
01:41:45,640 --> 01:41:50,080
Speaker 5: just personally decided if you want to, well, we'll suggest

1908
01:41:50,120 --> 01:41:54,360
Speaker 5: people go to Botswana or parts of Namibia where they've

1909
01:41:54,360 --> 01:41:58,160
Speaker 5: got too many elephants and they actually physically have to

1910
01:41:58,240 --> 01:42:02,320
Speaker 5: cull on top of the you know, the foreign hunting clients.

1911
01:42:03,400 --> 01:42:05,200
Speaker 5: You know, Botswan or one point was have into cul

1912
01:42:05,840 --> 01:42:08,080
Speaker 5: forty or fifty thousand elephant every year.

1913
01:42:08,240 --> 01:42:12,160
Speaker 2: What yeah, yeah, no way, yeah, I mean the crop

1914
01:42:12,280 --> 01:42:14,880
Speaker 2: damage that they can do and the and again, you know,

1915
01:42:14,960 --> 01:42:19,839
Speaker 2: elephants are extremely migratory by nature. You know, they'll follow grass,

1916
01:42:19,920 --> 01:42:25,280
Speaker 2: they'll follow the rains, they'll follow ancient ancestral paths to

1917
01:42:25,680 --> 01:42:28,400
Speaker 2: get to different food resources at different times of the year.

1918
01:42:28,960 --> 01:42:31,880
Speaker 2: And of course all that now has been like interdicted

1919
01:42:32,000 --> 01:42:37,600
Speaker 2: by highways and development, farmland and so on. So you know,

1920
01:42:37,800 --> 01:42:41,439
Speaker 2: if they can't do those migrations, they're increasingly pushed into

1921
01:42:41,479 --> 01:42:44,080
Speaker 2: these smaller and smaller areas and they just eat themselves

1922
01:42:44,120 --> 01:42:47,120
Speaker 2: out of house and home. And also they get in

1923
01:42:47,240 --> 01:42:51,880
Speaker 2: conflict with those surrounding agricultural communities and that's where you know,

1924
01:42:52,040 --> 01:42:54,599
Speaker 2: the necessity of a coal comes in. But where we're

1925
01:42:54,600 --> 01:42:58,439
Speaker 2: not in that place in Tanzania anymore. And what's you know,

1926
01:42:58,479 --> 01:43:02,080
Speaker 2: what's fundamentally changed for us is we know we if

1927
01:43:02,120 --> 01:43:04,479
Speaker 2: you believe as we do, and I think as everyone

1928
01:43:04,520 --> 01:43:07,040
Speaker 2: in this room does, whether it's in the North American

1929
01:43:07,080 --> 01:43:10,000
Speaker 2: model or in our model, that you know, an animal,

1930
01:43:10,439 --> 01:43:14,920
Speaker 2: there's in any sort of functional sort of population of animals,

1931
01:43:14,920 --> 01:43:17,960
Speaker 2: there's a sustainable off take that that can be managed

1932
01:43:18,000 --> 01:43:21,680
Speaker 2: and you know, can be utilized, whether it's lions or

1933
01:43:21,680 --> 01:43:26,400
Speaker 2: whitetailed deer that you know that that's something that that's possible.

1934
01:43:26,880 --> 01:43:30,120
Speaker 2: But when you've got that commercial poaching pressure over and

1935
01:43:30,160 --> 01:43:32,599
Speaker 2: above on top of that, it just does it's not

1936
01:43:32,640 --> 01:43:35,720
Speaker 2: sustainable anymore. We can't, you know, look at ourselves in

1937
01:43:35,760 --> 01:43:38,040
Speaker 2: the mirror and say, yeah, you know, there's harve there's elephants.

1938
01:43:38,040 --> 01:43:40,000
Speaker 2: We could harvest in these areas and it wouldn't be

1939
01:43:40,000 --> 01:43:43,600
Speaker 2: detrimental to the population. So, you know, Robin Hurt Safaris

1940
01:43:43,800 --> 01:43:44,799
Speaker 2: were out of that business.

1941
01:43:44,880 --> 01:43:49,760
Speaker 6: Well, actually dropping offspring every single year.

1942
01:43:49,960 --> 01:43:54,000
Speaker 2: No, they're not dropping four to seven year carving interval,

1943
01:43:54,400 --> 01:44:00,719
Speaker 2: twenty two month gestation. Elephants breed well when they're left

1944
01:44:01,080 --> 01:44:03,479
Speaker 2: to their own devices and when they have habitat, but

1945
01:44:03,760 --> 01:44:07,719
Speaker 2: it's a slow process. It's generational. So if you lose

1946
01:44:07,760 --> 01:44:10,200
Speaker 2: a whole bunch like we did, it takes a long

1947
01:44:10,280 --> 01:44:11,360
Speaker 2: time to get to recover.

1948
01:44:11,800 --> 01:44:14,519
Speaker 5: But what Morgan was saying a minute ago is something

1949
01:44:14,520 --> 01:44:17,559
Speaker 5: that it touches a bone with me. For some reason,

1950
01:44:17,640 --> 01:44:23,280
Speaker 5: hunting in Africa is labeled as trophy hunting, and okay,

1951
01:44:23,320 --> 01:44:26,800
Speaker 5: trophies do come into it, like hunters always. There are

1952
01:44:26,840 --> 01:44:30,080
Speaker 5: people who want the bigger animal, but it should really

1953
01:44:30,120 --> 01:44:33,120
Speaker 5: be called sustainable hunting. What we do, that's what our

1954
01:44:33,160 --> 01:44:36,519
Speaker 5: company is all about. It's making sure that our off

1955
01:44:36,560 --> 01:44:40,120
Speaker 5: take does not affect the population. And it's my dad

1956
01:44:40,120 --> 01:44:43,719
Speaker 5: always says, it's we're basically no different from a beef

1957
01:44:43,760 --> 01:44:47,559
Speaker 5: cattle farmer. Like the wildlife is our crop and we

1958
01:44:47,680 --> 01:44:51,720
Speaker 5: manage it. We have sustainable offtake, but we don't want

1959
01:44:51,760 --> 01:44:56,200
Speaker 5: to do anything detrimental to that wildlife population because that's

1960
01:44:56,200 --> 01:45:00,240
Speaker 5: how we make our living. And I know, I guess

1961
01:45:00,280 --> 01:45:04,200
Speaker 5: a lot of celebrities and everyone have made this stigma

1962
01:45:04,240 --> 01:45:08,760
Speaker 5: about hunting in Africa where it's all these rich Americans,

1963
01:45:09,439 --> 01:45:12,519
Speaker 5: you know, standing over an animal, you know, and an

1964
01:45:12,560 --> 01:45:15,840
Speaker 5: ego thing, where that's that's not what we're about, you know,

1965
01:45:15,920 --> 01:45:23,639
Speaker 5: with traditional ethical hunters with very strong practices on age, sex,

1966
01:45:23,760 --> 01:45:24,599
Speaker 5: everything like that.

1967
01:45:24,960 --> 01:45:28,160
Speaker 6: Well, it's very confusing. And I'll tell you, like the

1968
01:45:28,640 --> 01:45:30,600
Speaker 6: argument that I hear all the time, and I have

1969
01:45:30,640 --> 01:45:35,240
Speaker 6: no answer too because I have no experience. Right, It's like, well,

1970
01:45:35,280 --> 01:45:38,360
Speaker 6: where does that money go from that elephant hunt?

1971
01:45:38,800 --> 01:45:39,040
Speaker 2: Yeah?

1972
01:45:39,200 --> 01:45:40,440
Speaker 6: Right, And it's like, well.

1973
01:45:40,800 --> 01:45:43,960
Speaker 5: It generally all goes straight back into that area, you know,

1974
01:45:43,960 --> 01:45:47,400
Speaker 5: because the game fee goes gets paid to the government,

1975
01:45:47,400 --> 01:45:51,240
Speaker 5: which funds their game scouts who are back in the

1976
01:45:51,360 --> 01:45:54,559
Speaker 5: area patrolling. And that's what I was saying with these

1977
01:45:54,600 --> 01:45:58,479
Speaker 5: with these areas that disappeared after Cecil. It was because

1978
01:45:58,520 --> 01:46:00,599
Speaker 5: there was there was no longer any funding, and they

1979
01:46:00,600 --> 01:46:03,280
Speaker 5: put the funding back into the core places that are

1980
01:46:03,280 --> 01:46:04,080
Speaker 5: bringing them money.

1981
01:46:04,439 --> 01:46:06,720
Speaker 6: And that's what I'm confused about too, because so you

1982
01:46:07,479 --> 01:46:11,120
Speaker 6: pay like a lease to the state for that concession,

1983
01:46:11,560 --> 01:46:14,840
Speaker 6: but then at that point it sounds as if it

1984
01:46:14,880 --> 01:46:19,960
Speaker 6: then becomes your responsibility to fully manage that concession.

1985
01:46:19,760 --> 01:46:22,519
Speaker 5: In conjunction with the wildlife department.

1986
01:46:22,760 --> 01:46:26,080
Speaker 6: But that Wildlife department will not operate there unless there's

1987
01:46:26,080 --> 01:46:27,240
Speaker 6: an active concession.

1988
01:46:27,439 --> 01:46:31,680
Speaker 5: Well, they just have limited funding and they're going to

1989
01:46:31,680 --> 01:46:35,960
Speaker 5: put the funding at their core resources. So like the

1990
01:46:36,000 --> 01:46:39,320
Speaker 5: Serengetti for instance, that has millions of tourists coming through

1991
01:46:39,320 --> 01:46:42,479
Speaker 5: paying fees. They have all the funding they need for

1992
01:46:42,960 --> 01:46:45,120
Speaker 5: that area and they're going to protect it because that's

1993
01:46:45,320 --> 01:46:49,400
Speaker 5: bringing in the big bucks. And the more peripheral the

1994
01:46:49,439 --> 01:46:52,120
Speaker 5: areas are, the less funding reaches those places, and that's

1995
01:46:52,120 --> 01:46:55,679
Speaker 5: where hunting comes in. Without hunting, most of the areas

1996
01:46:55,680 --> 01:46:59,839
Speaker 5: we operate would disappear in a matter of literally.

1997
01:47:00,520 --> 01:47:05,839
Speaker 4: So your your business affords your business or the government

1998
01:47:06,080 --> 01:47:09,280
Speaker 4: to be able to do monitoring in that area one

1999
01:47:09,360 --> 01:47:09,960
Speaker 4: hundred percent.

2000
01:47:10,280 --> 01:47:14,120
Speaker 2: So Tanzania has got I think it's forty percent of

2001
01:47:14,160 --> 01:47:17,519
Speaker 2: their total land mass is set aside for some sort

2002
01:47:17,560 --> 01:47:21,559
Speaker 2: of conservation effort, some sort of wildlife conservation, and sort

2003
01:47:21,600 --> 01:47:25,040
Speaker 2: of various tiers of wilderness. So before when you were

2004
01:47:25,080 --> 01:47:27,760
Speaker 2: talking about like no one lives in our in our

2005
01:47:27,960 --> 01:47:30,920
Speaker 2: Leganzo concession because it's a game reserve, well that's kind

2006
01:47:30,920 --> 01:47:34,880
Speaker 2: of our top tier of protection. Below that, there's other

2007
01:47:34,960 --> 01:47:38,720
Speaker 2: tiers where you'll have areas where there are you know,

2008
01:47:38,880 --> 01:47:41,360
Speaker 2: human inhabitants. There is a village inside the area, there

2009
01:47:41,400 --> 01:47:45,000
Speaker 2: are people grazing through that area seasonally, there are people,

2010
01:47:45,160 --> 01:47:49,760
Speaker 2: you know, honey, people collecting honey, people collecting fire, were

2011
01:47:49,800 --> 01:47:53,200
Speaker 2: doing other activities. But there's still game there, and there's

2012
01:47:53,240 --> 01:47:55,679
Speaker 2: still you know, it's still a hunting concession. There's still

2013
01:47:55,720 --> 01:47:59,160
Speaker 2: management going on. There's still kind of an interaction between

2014
01:47:59,600 --> 01:48:03,559
Speaker 2: the those people that are inhabiting or seasonally using the

2015
01:48:03,600 --> 01:48:08,440
Speaker 2: area and the hunting operator and the government. But essentially,

2016
01:48:08,920 --> 01:48:12,720
Speaker 2: you know, that's a huge chunk of land that the

2017
01:48:12,760 --> 01:48:16,599
Speaker 2: Tanzanian government's committed to wildlife conservation. Like I'm not sure

2018
01:48:16,920 --> 01:48:21,360
Speaker 2: what percentage of North America has set aside for some

2019
01:48:21,400 --> 01:48:24,000
Speaker 2: sort of you know, wilderness or hunting, whether there's.

2020
01:48:23,880 --> 01:48:26,960
Speaker 6: A what is it less than two percent?

2021
01:48:27,280 --> 01:48:32,160
Speaker 2: No, well, yeah, but no the thirty by thirty is

2022
01:48:32,160 --> 01:48:32,680
Speaker 2: that what it is?

2023
01:48:33,680 --> 01:48:33,960
Speaker 6: Oh?

2024
01:48:34,240 --> 01:48:38,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, but that's a way different definition. Yeah, right, by

2025
01:48:38,160 --> 01:48:40,200
Speaker 4: two thousand, by two thousand.

2026
01:48:39,840 --> 01:48:41,559
Speaker 2: And thirty having is that right?

2027
01:48:41,960 --> 01:48:45,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, by two thousand and thirty, having thirty percent of

2028
01:48:45,160 --> 01:48:48,360
Speaker 4: the US and some kind of it's a.

2029
01:48:49,080 --> 01:48:53,639
Speaker 10: It incorporates things like CRP and yeah.

2030
01:48:53,200 --> 01:48:55,400
Speaker 4: Well under some kind of conservation model.

2031
01:48:55,439 --> 01:48:58,959
Speaker 2: Yeah, And the lines here are a lot blurry between

2032
01:49:00,120 --> 01:49:03,680
Speaker 2: wildlife habitat and agriculture. Right, Like, you can go on

2033
01:49:04,439 --> 01:49:08,960
Speaker 2: a ranch that's being fairly intensively, you know, farmed or ranched,

2034
01:49:09,040 --> 01:49:11,320
Speaker 2: and there'll be white taileda, there'll be analope, they'll be

2035
01:49:11,520 --> 01:49:14,800
Speaker 2: coming down onto the alfalfa. They'll be predators, you know,

2036
01:49:15,160 --> 01:49:19,880
Speaker 2: following those animals. In Tanzania, at least in northern mess Island,

2037
01:49:19,880 --> 01:49:22,160
Speaker 2: it's a little different where people just graze animals, But

2038
01:49:22,280 --> 01:49:25,720
Speaker 2: in most of central, kind of western and southern Tanzania,

2039
01:49:25,960 --> 01:49:31,639
Speaker 2: there's like a hard delineation between agricultural land and land

2040
01:49:31,680 --> 01:49:37,800
Speaker 2: for wildlife, and there's very little spillover because a lot

2041
01:49:37,800 --> 01:49:42,519
Speaker 2: of that agriculture is subsistence farming, so there's no ability

2042
01:49:42,560 --> 01:49:44,920
Speaker 2: for those people to accept Oh, well, a percentage of

2043
01:49:44,920 --> 01:49:46,600
Speaker 2: my crop is going to go to the buffaloes. And

2044
01:49:46,640 --> 01:49:49,240
Speaker 2: that's just kind of the way it is. That's that's not.

2045
01:49:49,240 --> 01:49:51,920
Speaker 5: A and anything that steps in there is going to

2046
01:49:51,920 --> 01:49:55,200
Speaker 5: get posts going to.

2047
01:49:55,080 --> 01:49:57,880
Speaker 2: And because it's detrimental to their agriculture.

2048
01:49:58,040 --> 01:50:00,479
Speaker 5: This is the biggest thing that you have to understand

2049
01:50:00,479 --> 01:50:04,280
Speaker 5: about Africa is that for wildlife to survive, it has

2050
01:50:04,320 --> 01:50:06,880
Speaker 5: to have a value because it's either going to be

2051
01:50:07,040 --> 01:50:10,920
Speaker 5: eaten or it's destructive to that that crops, or it's

2052
01:50:11,080 --> 01:50:14,320
Speaker 5: killing that cattle. You know, their lifestyle.

2053
01:50:24,439 --> 01:50:27,920
Speaker 4: In the US, we're on we're like on edge, very

2054
01:50:28,000 --> 01:50:33,920
Speaker 4: guarded about the pay to play model. Certain certain forces

2055
01:50:33,960 --> 01:50:40,439
Speaker 4: are not right, but like you know, you're kind of

2056
01:50:40,479 --> 01:50:44,000
Speaker 4: like meat and potatoes. Non aristocratic hunters are worried about

2057
01:50:44,040 --> 01:50:46,800
Speaker 4: the pay to play model because it violates an understanding

2058
01:50:46,800 --> 01:50:48,639
Speaker 4: of how we manage wildlife. When I was talking about

2059
01:50:48,680 --> 01:50:53,240
Speaker 4: that that at its ideal, wildlife is allocated democratically.

2060
01:50:53,360 --> 01:50:54,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, okay.

2061
01:50:54,479 --> 01:50:58,280
Speaker 4: And and pay to play comes into there's one hundred

2062
01:50:58,360 --> 01:51:00,360
Speaker 4: versions of pay to play emerging pay to play.

2063
01:51:00,400 --> 01:51:01,000
Speaker 2: It would be.

2064
01:51:02,439 --> 01:51:06,880
Speaker 4: Things like governor's tags, auction tags, where you're pulling it

2065
01:51:06,880 --> 01:51:11,040
Speaker 4: out of democratically. It's you're taking animals, bighorn sheep, elk, whatever,

2066
01:51:11,520 --> 01:51:14,760
Speaker 4: and the tag the opportunity would have been allocated democratically,

2067
01:51:15,240 --> 01:51:17,519
Speaker 4: but it goes to the highest bidder. So that would

2068
01:51:17,520 --> 01:51:19,519
Speaker 4: be an affront to pay to play. Another huge pay

2069
01:51:19,560 --> 01:51:23,479
Speaker 4: to play aspect in the US is the rapidly i mean,

2070
01:51:23,520 --> 01:51:29,960
Speaker 4: the increased, still increasing numbers of acreage that are where

2071
01:51:30,040 --> 01:51:32,920
Speaker 4: hunting rights are leased. Right, Okay, it's a pay to

2072
01:51:32,920 --> 01:51:37,799
Speaker 4: play model, and it's and it's generally regarded by most folks.

2073
01:51:38,000 --> 01:51:44,880
Speaker 4: It's it's watching this progression is disheartening to people. They

2074
01:51:44,880 --> 01:51:49,160
Speaker 4: don't it's depressing. But you guys are telling me when

2075
01:51:49,160 --> 01:51:54,640
Speaker 4: we spoke recently, then this is not new. And like

2076
01:51:54,680 --> 01:51:57,719
Speaker 4: the entire African system is built around pay to play,

2077
01:51:57,800 --> 01:51:58,559
Speaker 4: it's always been.

2078
01:51:59,040 --> 01:52:01,720
Speaker 2: It's always been that way, even you know, going back

2079
01:52:01,760 --> 01:52:05,960
Speaker 2: again to the Roosevelt Safari, you know that you couldn't

2080
01:52:06,280 --> 01:52:10,000
Speaker 2: I mean, the early guys would go to Cape Town

2081
01:52:10,080 --> 01:52:12,599
Speaker 2: or something like that and buy a bunch of cattle

2082
01:52:12,640 --> 01:52:14,680
Speaker 2: and hire a bunch of guys and load up these

2083
01:52:14,720 --> 01:52:17,480
Speaker 2: wagon trains and head out, you know, into the wilderness.

2084
01:52:18,120 --> 01:52:21,679
Speaker 2: But but it very quickly became if if someone wanted

2085
01:52:21,720 --> 01:52:24,880
Speaker 2: to come and experience Africa. Whether it was someone with

2086
01:52:25,160 --> 01:52:29,080
Speaker 2: the almost limitless means that that Roosevelt had at that time,

2087
01:52:30,160 --> 01:52:35,280
Speaker 2: or you know, a British colonial officer, they would, you know,

2088
01:52:35,320 --> 01:52:37,960
Speaker 2: they'd need to engage the services of someone who could

2089
01:52:38,080 --> 01:52:41,920
Speaker 2: navigate that you know, deal with the very interact with

2090
01:52:41,960 --> 01:52:44,120
Speaker 2: the various tribes they were going to come across, you know,

2091
01:52:44,800 --> 01:52:47,360
Speaker 2: make sure that you know they were able to find

2092
01:52:47,400 --> 01:52:50,920
Speaker 2: the appropriate habitats where those species resided. And I think

2093
01:52:51,720 --> 01:52:54,040
Speaker 2: our industry's kind of always been that way. And I

2094
01:52:54,080 --> 01:52:56,880
Speaker 2: sort of get the discomfort that that a lot of

2095
01:52:56,880 --> 01:52:59,320
Speaker 2: people have with this notion that you can have a

2096
01:52:59,360 --> 01:53:01,720
Speaker 2: guy living on the edge of a game reserve but

2097
01:53:01,800 --> 01:53:02,920
Speaker 2: he's not allowed to hunt there.

2098
01:53:03,080 --> 01:53:05,919
Speaker 4: Like is that really Like if you you're a resident

2099
01:53:05,960 --> 01:53:09,439
Speaker 4: of Tanzania, you can resident there is no possible way

2100
01:53:09,520 --> 01:53:11,120
Speaker 4: for you to go legally get.

2101
01:53:11,080 --> 01:53:14,080
Speaker 5: We used to have resident hunting for all intents and

2102
01:53:14,120 --> 01:53:15,800
Speaker 5: purposes and no.

2103
01:53:15,840 --> 01:53:18,840
Speaker 2: But what I would say is that a lot of people,

2104
01:53:18,920 --> 01:53:20,960
Speaker 2: probably I don't know if a lot of people have

2105
01:53:21,040 --> 01:53:23,000
Speaker 2: thought about this, but I've thought about it quite a

2106
01:53:23,080 --> 01:53:25,799
Speaker 2: lot recently, having spent a lot of time in North America.

2107
01:53:26,000 --> 01:53:30,200
Speaker 2: Is I think the North American model is underpinned by

2108
01:53:30,240 --> 01:53:34,880
Speaker 2: something else other than sort of just the democratization of wildlife,

2109
01:53:35,240 --> 01:53:38,720
Speaker 2: and that is the sort of like presupposition that there's

2110
01:53:38,760 --> 01:53:41,160
Speaker 2: a large number of this people in this country that

2111
01:53:41,240 --> 01:53:45,400
Speaker 2: aren't living hand to mouth. Okay, r I fundamentally believe

2112
01:53:45,520 --> 01:53:51,160
Speaker 2: that the North American model wouldn't function in this country

2113
01:53:51,280 --> 01:53:55,240
Speaker 2: if sixty percent of the population of this country was

2114
01:53:55,280 --> 01:53:58,559
Speaker 2: living on a dollar a day and trying to figure

2115
01:53:58,600 --> 01:53:59,439
Speaker 2: out ways to feed them.

2116
01:53:59,479 --> 01:54:00,800
Speaker 4: Well, you know what actually up on that?

2117
01:54:01,640 --> 01:54:08,240
Speaker 3: No it didn't right, No, no, no, we weren't through that,

2118
01:54:09,120 --> 01:54:11,800
Speaker 3: absolutely absolutely, and they wipe the place clean, wipe the

2119
01:54:11,800 --> 01:54:15,400
Speaker 3: place clean, right and and and Africa and I speak,

2120
01:54:15,680 --> 01:54:19,280
Speaker 3: you know through the lens of Tanzania specifically, is still

2121
01:54:19,400 --> 01:54:23,520
Speaker 3: on that development trajectory where you know, there's a growing population,

2122
01:54:23,600 --> 01:54:25,880
Speaker 3: there's all this pressure, there's a huge.

2123
01:54:25,640 --> 01:54:29,000
Speaker 2: Number of people that are living on a really really

2124
01:54:29,080 --> 01:54:34,960
Speaker 2: hand to mouth existence, and you know, democratizing wildlife in

2125
01:54:35,200 --> 01:54:39,520
Speaker 2: with those under those circumstances would lead to I think

2126
01:54:39,640 --> 01:54:42,240
Speaker 2: like it's like the tragedy of the commons right where

2127
01:54:42,280 --> 01:54:46,360
Speaker 2: it's just like there's all this pressure of consumption on

2128
01:54:46,520 --> 01:54:49,440
Speaker 2: very limited resources. And also I would think if you

2129
01:54:49,600 --> 01:54:51,680
Speaker 2: I think if you spoke to the average Tanzania and

2130
01:54:51,760 --> 01:54:54,760
Speaker 2: like sport hunting isn't a high priority for them, just

2131
01:54:54,960 --> 01:54:56,840
Speaker 2: about the meat. It'd be about the meat. And so

2132
01:54:56,960 --> 01:54:59,720
Speaker 2: what what we do, what our objective is is a

2133
01:54:59,760 --> 01:55:06,520
Speaker 2: come is to basically extend those benefits to those communities,

2134
01:55:06,600 --> 01:55:09,520
Speaker 2: partner with those communities and allow those people that live

2135
01:55:09,560 --> 01:55:11,400
Speaker 2: on the edge of the gamers of Okay, they can't

2136
01:55:11,400 --> 01:55:13,720
Speaker 2: grab their bow and arrow draw, you know, apply for

2137
01:55:13,760 --> 01:55:15,720
Speaker 2: a tag and go in there and shoot a buffalo,

2138
01:55:16,080 --> 01:55:19,640
Speaker 2: but you know that there's meat coming back to their communities,

2139
01:55:19,840 --> 01:55:22,800
Speaker 2: there's employment coming back to their communities, there's things they

2140
01:55:22,920 --> 01:55:26,400
Speaker 2: need like clinic schools, et cetera, et cetera. So they're

2141
01:55:26,440 --> 01:55:31,440
Speaker 2: benefiting in an indirect sort of one degree removed from

2142
01:55:31,560 --> 01:55:35,920
Speaker 2: our operations as opposed to just sort of saying, well, hey,

2143
01:55:35,960 --> 01:55:39,440
Speaker 2: this resource is quite literally for everybody in the sense

2144
01:55:39,440 --> 01:55:40,760
Speaker 2: that it's accessible to you.

2145
01:55:41,120 --> 01:55:45,160
Speaker 4: So the wildlife isn't allocated, but some of the funding is.

2146
01:55:45,560 --> 01:55:48,560
Speaker 2: Some of the funding is allocated, definitely, And we couldn't

2147
01:55:48,600 --> 01:55:52,200
Speaker 2: do what we do without partnership with those communities. Right,

2148
01:55:52,280 --> 01:55:55,680
Speaker 2: Like if our model was role in their run rough

2149
01:55:55,680 --> 01:55:58,600
Speaker 2: shot over them, put up fences, keep them out, you know,

2150
01:55:58,680 --> 01:56:02,160
Speaker 2: have our anti poaching guy is you know, essentially you know,

2151
01:56:02,240 --> 01:56:04,960
Speaker 2: intimidating them to stay out of our area. It wouldn't

2152
01:56:05,000 --> 01:56:06,760
Speaker 2: work because they have more of them than there are

2153
01:56:06,880 --> 01:56:10,600
Speaker 2: us always going to be. So the only way that

2154
01:56:10,680 --> 01:56:15,160
Speaker 2: our model functions is if those communities feel that they're

2155
01:56:15,760 --> 01:56:21,960
Speaker 2: a stakeholder in this this model, that they're benefiting. And

2156
01:56:22,040 --> 01:56:26,280
Speaker 2: so that's really that's our biggest challenge and that's our

2157
01:56:26,520 --> 01:56:27,680
Speaker 2: that's our primary focus.

2158
01:56:27,720 --> 01:56:29,600
Speaker 5: I mean, America has a great system. I mean the

2159
01:56:30,040 --> 01:56:30,720
Speaker 5: tag system.

2160
01:56:31,520 --> 01:56:32,320
Speaker 2: It's the best in the world.

2161
01:56:33,080 --> 01:56:35,640
Speaker 5: I mean, I didn't ever understand.

2162
01:56:37,400 --> 01:56:41,240
Speaker 2: Un ironically it is, but there's some preconditions. I think

2163
01:56:41,280 --> 01:56:44,360
Speaker 2: that it's a great point. Randall and I are working

2164
01:56:44,400 --> 01:56:46,360
Speaker 2: on a project.

2165
01:56:46,880 --> 01:56:50,520
Speaker 4: We're working on a project about it'll be a it

2166
01:56:50,520 --> 01:56:52,960
Speaker 4: will be an audiobook, like an audio like a yeah,

2167
01:56:53,040 --> 01:56:53,720
Speaker 4: an audiobook.

2168
01:56:53,760 --> 01:56:56,920
Speaker 6: I imagine his title would be doctor Williams On that.

2169
01:57:00,280 --> 01:57:02,960
Speaker 2: We're working on. The first one we're doing is.

2170
01:57:03,040 --> 01:57:09,040
Speaker 4: A history of the of the deer, well what we call.

2171
01:57:09,000 --> 01:57:11,640
Speaker 2: The long hunters. If you've heard of a fella named

2172
01:57:11,680 --> 01:57:14,400
Speaker 2: Daniel Boone, oh yeah, he made his name for himself

2173
01:57:14,440 --> 01:57:17,400
Speaker 2: as a long hunter, but focused heavily on the deer

2174
01:57:18,360 --> 01:57:22,280
Speaker 2: trade in colonial America, interesting because they were in bad

2175
01:57:22,320 --> 01:57:23,160
Speaker 2: shape for a while.

2176
01:57:23,200 --> 01:57:25,040
Speaker 4: Oh and what you're talking about when you talk about

2177
01:57:25,120 --> 01:57:29,400
Speaker 4: like what about when everyone is in poverty? Right, how

2178
01:57:29,440 --> 01:57:32,920
Speaker 4: does the system? So there's so many things that in

2179
01:57:33,040 --> 01:57:38,400
Speaker 4: Randall's research that just the things that are brought to

2180
01:57:38,520 --> 01:57:41,520
Speaker 4: mind and talking to you about what goes on in

2181
01:57:41,560 --> 01:57:47,000
Speaker 4: Tanzania would be these like very early wild temptation attempts,

2182
01:57:47,000 --> 01:57:53,840
Speaker 4: not temptations, attempts at slowing the slaughter right from pot hunters,

2183
01:57:54,600 --> 01:57:57,000
Speaker 4: from professional poachers, of which you know Boone was essentially

2184
01:57:57,040 --> 01:58:02,840
Speaker 4: a professional poacher, meaning that if you didn't own land

2185
01:58:03,280 --> 01:58:06,160
Speaker 4: in a district, you weren't allowed to hunt interest, you

2186
01:58:06,160 --> 01:58:08,879
Speaker 4: weren't allowed to hunt somewhere where you didn't live nearby,

2187
01:58:09,120 --> 01:58:10,240
Speaker 4: like the European model.

2188
01:58:10,320 --> 01:58:10,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, and like.

2189
01:58:10,880 --> 01:58:15,080
Speaker 4: Trying to which no one paid attention to that, but

2190
01:58:15,160 --> 01:58:17,400
Speaker 4: like them trying to go like okay, how would you

2191
01:58:17,520 --> 01:58:20,120
Speaker 4: do something like this? And I couldn't believe on one

2192
01:58:20,120 --> 01:58:22,040
Speaker 4: of the first prohibitions on deer hunting was in the

2193
01:58:22,040 --> 01:58:25,440
Speaker 4: seventeen hundreds. Wh Yeah, there's going like what if we

2194
01:58:25,520 --> 01:58:28,400
Speaker 4: had a time a year? What if we had a

2195
01:58:28,440 --> 01:58:32,080
Speaker 4: time a year? And you can't hunt. And basically the response.

2196
01:58:31,760 --> 01:58:36,040
Speaker 2: Is yeah, I hope everybody else.

2197
01:58:37,840 --> 01:58:40,360
Speaker 4: But it was it was like like like sort of

2198
01:58:40,440 --> 01:58:45,280
Speaker 4: watching this young country to be going like, well, let's

2199
01:58:45,320 --> 01:58:48,560
Speaker 4: say you did want to save some of it, Like

2200
01:58:49,160 --> 01:58:51,960
Speaker 4: where do you begin, you know, with a bunch of ideas.

2201
01:58:51,960 --> 01:58:55,280
Speaker 2: It didn't hold. So what defines a long hunter? They

2202
01:58:55,280 --> 01:58:58,920
Speaker 2: went on some long ass hunter? Got it? Got it okay?

2203
01:58:59,440 --> 01:59:01,880
Speaker 6: They would only turn if they had enough meat to

2204
01:59:02,320 --> 01:59:02,920
Speaker 6: bring back.

2205
01:59:03,280 --> 01:59:07,200
Speaker 4: Wow, okay, And that's hide hunters. They were generally like deer.

2206
01:59:07,280 --> 01:59:11,720
Speaker 4: They were deer. They were hunting. Generally, they sold a

2207
01:59:11,720 --> 01:59:13,800
Speaker 4: lot of bush meat. Got it okay, They sold a

2208
01:59:13,800 --> 01:59:14,400
Speaker 4: lot of bush meat.

2209
01:59:14,400 --> 01:59:14,880
Speaker 2: But they were.

2210
01:59:14,760 --> 01:59:20,320
Speaker 4: Generally hunting hides, primarily white tail deer hides that would

2211
01:59:20,320 --> 01:59:22,280
Speaker 4: get exported to europe interests.

2212
01:59:22,360 --> 01:59:26,280
Speaker 10: And there's also the parallel of like global demand for

2213
01:59:26,360 --> 01:59:31,720
Speaker 10: commodities feeling excessive harvest, right like when you're talking about

2214
01:59:32,280 --> 01:59:36,120
Speaker 10: ivory trade, right like, in the commercial demand for those resources,

2215
01:59:37,120 --> 01:59:41,280
Speaker 10: there's like a bottomless demand for or an endless demand

2216
01:59:41,480 --> 01:59:44,920
Speaker 10: whatever you want to call it, for white tail deer

2217
01:59:45,280 --> 01:59:48,720
Speaker 10: skins to turn into leather for leather products.

2218
01:59:48,880 --> 01:59:51,320
Speaker 2: And it's just like from people that didn't really care

2219
01:59:51,480 --> 01:59:55,720
Speaker 2: how you got them, right, Yeah, as long as like

2220
01:59:55,760 --> 01:59:57,280
Speaker 2: you said you talked about earlier, like if you can

2221
01:59:57,320 --> 01:59:59,000
Speaker 2: get them to the port, that's good enough for me.

2222
01:59:59,000 --> 01:59:59,160
Speaker 5: Goo.

2223
02:00:00,440 --> 02:00:03,920
Speaker 2: The fascinating thing with North America to me is like

2224
02:00:05,480 --> 02:00:09,200
Speaker 2: the obviously those animal populations just just took a dive.

2225
02:00:09,280 --> 02:00:11,680
Speaker 2: I mean, I've heard about the in relation to turkeys

2226
02:00:11,680 --> 02:00:16,280
Speaker 2: and whitetailed deer in particular. But obviously the habitat was

2227
02:00:16,320 --> 02:00:20,760
Speaker 2: still there to enable that. Once once they had figured

2228
02:00:20,800 --> 02:00:23,800
Speaker 2: out through whatever like political or social means to put

2229
02:00:23,840 --> 02:00:28,720
Speaker 2: this structure to conserve these animals, set seasons, you limit harvest.

2230
02:00:29,000 --> 02:00:31,600
Speaker 2: Once that was in place, the animals were able to

2231
02:00:31,720 --> 02:00:37,040
Speaker 2: bounce back because that habitat was intact. Whereas what we

2232
02:00:37,320 --> 02:00:42,000
Speaker 2: face really is like Roger was talking about before that

2233
02:00:42,200 --> 02:00:44,840
Speaker 2: loss of habitat, and I think you said something once

2234
02:00:44,880 --> 02:00:47,480
Speaker 2: along the lines of like when you see someone building

2235
02:00:47,600 --> 02:00:50,600
Speaker 2: some sort of structure, you think in your head, well,

2236
02:00:50,640 --> 02:00:54,280
Speaker 2: that'll never be habitat again. And that's what that's what

2237
02:00:54,320 --> 02:00:56,839
Speaker 2: we deal with day and day out. Once that field

2238
02:00:56,880 --> 02:01:01,080
Speaker 2: of maize gets planted, once that tree gets once the

2239
02:01:01,280 --> 02:01:03,720
Speaker 2: you know, once all that's done, once those cattle are

2240
02:01:03,760 --> 02:01:06,880
Speaker 2: in there, that'll never be habitat again any of you.

2241
02:01:06,800 --> 02:01:10,560
Speaker 5: Want to. It's it's a fifteen to five year process

2242
02:01:10,640 --> 02:01:13,560
Speaker 5: to recreate something that's destroyed in six months.

2243
02:01:13,640 --> 02:01:16,120
Speaker 2: Well, and politically you go evict those people, which is

2244
02:01:16,120 --> 02:01:16,680
Speaker 2: a nightmare.

2245
02:01:16,960 --> 02:01:19,400
Speaker 4: There's one exception to my rule is my friend Matt

2246
02:01:19,400 --> 02:01:21,160
Speaker 4: Cook has a farm and there was a house on

2247
02:01:21,240 --> 02:01:24,880
Speaker 4: air and he the fire department came in and burned

2248
02:01:24,880 --> 02:01:27,080
Speaker 4: the house down like to do practice, and then he

2249
02:01:27,120 --> 02:01:31,760
Speaker 4: scraped up the foundation and they just planted over the.

2250
02:01:31,720 --> 02:01:32,440
Speaker 2: Top of the house.

2251
02:01:33,120 --> 02:01:36,520
Speaker 4: And every time you go through that area there is

2252
02:01:36,640 --> 02:01:40,720
Speaker 4: something hanging out sitting on the house.

2253
02:01:41,440 --> 02:01:43,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, I do. It's not really it's not really a

2254
02:01:43,760 --> 02:01:44,680
Speaker 2: scalable model. No.

2255
02:01:45,880 --> 02:01:47,680
Speaker 4: One time we go so one time you go buy

2256
02:01:47,720 --> 02:01:50,680
Speaker 4: it as a groundhog stand in their last time two

2257
02:01:50,720 --> 02:01:53,040
Speaker 4: times ago I went by it, there's a fox squirrel.

2258
02:01:52,720 --> 02:01:54,560
Speaker 2: Stand in there. And I'm not kidding you.

2259
02:01:54,560 --> 02:01:56,840
Speaker 4: We were just doing a fundraiser hunt there and the

2260
02:01:56,920 --> 02:01:59,720
Speaker 4: turkey that my like my fundraiser guy that I was

2261
02:01:59,760 --> 02:02:04,720
Speaker 4: guy helping the turkey that he killed. When I spotted

2262
02:02:04,720 --> 02:02:06,320
Speaker 4: that turkey, it was standing on.

2263
02:02:06,240 --> 02:02:10,240
Speaker 2: That place nice. So just that place to that guy.

2264
02:02:10,520 --> 02:02:13,680
Speaker 2: I often kind of have fantasies like driving the Paradise Valley,

2265
02:02:13,720 --> 02:02:15,800
Speaker 2: like maybe you could just scrape all this back.

2266
02:02:19,360 --> 02:02:24,080
Speaker 4: Like, let me choose my words very carefully. Had someone

2267
02:02:24,160 --> 02:02:28,520
Speaker 4: in eighteen hundred thought that they would just put a

2268
02:02:28,720 --> 02:02:34,840
Speaker 4: giant trailhead right alongside what would become High ninety and

2269
02:02:34,880 --> 02:02:38,440
Speaker 4: that was the trailhead for that for everything to the

2270
02:02:38,480 --> 02:02:42,320
Speaker 4: south of there, they would be they would be applauded today.

2271
02:02:44,680 --> 02:02:45,800
Speaker 2: You know that ain't gonna happen.

2272
02:02:46,920 --> 02:02:50,200
Speaker 4: I had some other point I was gonna make about

2273
02:02:51,040 --> 02:02:52,280
Speaker 4: what the hell are we talking about before I start

2274
02:02:52,280 --> 02:02:54,440
Speaker 4: talking about my buddy's place. Well, that habitat when it

2275
02:02:54,560 --> 02:02:59,160
Speaker 4: goes well, we've been we've mentioned Roosevelt a lot. Yeah,

2276
02:02:59,200 --> 02:03:03,080
Speaker 4: so we've been mentioning his safari sort of. You mentioned

2277
02:03:03,080 --> 02:03:04,200
Speaker 4: like the habitat was still there.

2278
02:03:04,320 --> 02:03:04,520
Speaker 2: Yeah.

2279
02:03:06,000 --> 02:03:12,360
Speaker 4: His his kind of genius at the time was it

2280
02:03:12,480 --> 02:03:18,280
Speaker 4: was just focused on basically preservation of preservation of habitat,

2281
02:03:18,400 --> 02:03:23,000
Speaker 4: right it was stopped, well, stop the slaughter, yeah, like

2282
02:03:23,040 --> 02:03:29,680
Speaker 4: stop unregulated slaughter and then save ground. Right, knowing that

2283
02:03:30,120 --> 02:03:34,360
Speaker 4: just the fecundity the biology of the animals, if you

2284
02:03:34,440 --> 02:03:37,720
Speaker 4: stop killing every last one of them and you save

2285
02:03:37,880 --> 02:03:42,240
Speaker 4: chunks of ground, it would kind of yah. Later later,

2286
02:03:42,400 --> 02:03:46,200
Speaker 4: much later, you know, in the fifties sixties, we started

2287
02:03:46,240 --> 02:03:49,360
Speaker 4: to really do a lot more around putting animals back

2288
02:03:49,400 --> 02:03:53,720
Speaker 4: on habitat right, you know, moving animals around, recovering stuff.

2289
02:03:53,800 --> 02:03:56,640
Speaker 4: But initially the conservation play in the US was, uh,

2290
02:03:57,360 --> 02:04:02,040
Speaker 4: stop commercial slaughter and put some kind of loss prevention

2291
02:04:02,960 --> 02:04:06,360
Speaker 4: in place on on habitat right. And then later we

2292
02:04:06,400 --> 02:04:09,920
Speaker 4: started like to fine tune through you know, all these

2293
02:04:10,160 --> 02:04:15,240
Speaker 4: restoration you know, not captive breeding and putting animals back up.

2294
02:04:15,280 --> 02:04:17,960
Speaker 4: But early on, man, it was like it was just

2295
02:04:18,000 --> 02:04:20,320
Speaker 4: those two things. And it's what kind of reminds me

2296
02:04:20,360 --> 02:04:22,920
Speaker 4: a little bit of what we're talking about here, is

2297
02:04:23,200 --> 02:04:24,680
Speaker 4: like what we're talking about that you guys see in

2298
02:04:24,720 --> 02:04:27,600
Speaker 4: Africa is like try to stop commercial slaughter, right, and

2299
02:04:27,600 --> 02:04:28,760
Speaker 4: then try to hang underground.

2300
02:04:28,920 --> 02:04:34,320
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah. South Africa went through a like a reintroduction phase. Well, yeah,

2301
02:04:34,480 --> 02:04:37,680
Speaker 2: because they privatized. They went a different direction to us.

2302
02:04:37,760 --> 02:04:40,640
Speaker 2: They privatized the kind of resource and so I think

2303
02:04:40,680 --> 02:04:44,240
Speaker 2: they went from something like four million head of game

2304
02:04:44,320 --> 02:04:48,240
Speaker 2: in the entire country to like twenty million in a

2305
02:04:48,440 --> 02:04:53,080
Speaker 2: couple of decades because essentially, you know, they became a

2306
02:04:53,160 --> 02:04:55,440
Speaker 2: market for you know, people to go over there and

2307
02:04:55,520 --> 02:04:58,320
Speaker 2: hunt or you know, do photo safaris or whatever it was.

2308
02:04:59,560 --> 02:05:02,920
Speaker 2: And and yeah, people started breeding game. Since they could

2309
02:05:02,920 --> 02:05:06,000
Speaker 2: own it, they could breed it. So they'd buy a

2310
02:05:06,000 --> 02:05:08,080
Speaker 2: couple or whatever and put them together and breed and

2311
02:05:08,120 --> 02:05:11,440
Speaker 2: then sell the excess and it sort of repopulated. I

2312
02:05:11,480 --> 02:05:14,280
Speaker 2: think it. You know, there's downsides to that model, a

2313
02:05:14,280 --> 02:05:17,520
Speaker 2: little bit, like you're talking about your shd antlers, right,

2314
02:05:17,560 --> 02:05:19,480
Speaker 2: there's a little something I think in a lot of

2315
02:05:19,520 --> 02:05:24,680
Speaker 2: people where knowing that animal is the sort of offspring

2316
02:05:24,760 --> 02:05:28,480
Speaker 2: of captive maybe takes a little bit of the little

2317
02:05:28,480 --> 02:05:33,240
Speaker 2: bit of the glass off it. It's certainly I wouldn't

2318
02:05:33,280 --> 02:05:35,920
Speaker 2: say I'm necessarily firmly in that camp, but like I

2319
02:05:35,960 --> 02:05:37,960
Speaker 2: feel that a little bit. You know. One of the

2320
02:05:38,000 --> 02:05:41,080
Speaker 2: great things about Tanzania is like you're hunting a wilderness

2321
02:05:41,080 --> 02:05:45,000
Speaker 2: that's kind of always been like that, and those animals

2322
02:05:45,200 --> 02:05:48,800
Speaker 2: are the descendants are the ones that Roosevelt hunted, you know.

2323
02:05:49,040 --> 02:05:53,040
Speaker 2: So there's that, But you can't argue with the success

2324
02:05:53,040 --> 02:05:56,760
Speaker 2: of that model from a just numbers of animals on

2325
02:05:56,840 --> 02:06:00,000
Speaker 2: the ground standpoint. It's a hugely successful.

2326
02:05:59,520 --> 02:06:01,760
Speaker 4: Model's got a question, Oh sorry, go ahead.

2327
02:06:01,760 --> 02:06:02,760
Speaker 5: So I was going to say, going back to the

2328
02:06:02,840 --> 02:06:06,919
Speaker 5: Roosevelt protecting the habitat thing. I think that's our biggest

2329
02:06:07,040 --> 02:06:10,320
Speaker 5: issue in Africa right now is like the population in

2330
02:06:10,360 --> 02:06:14,920
Speaker 5: Africa is already one point three billion people and it's

2331
02:06:14,960 --> 02:06:17,840
Speaker 5: set to basically double in the next twenty five years.

2332
02:06:18,040 --> 02:06:21,320
Speaker 5: So the pressure on land is just like it's never

2333
02:06:21,360 --> 02:06:21,840
Speaker 5: been before.

2334
02:06:21,960 --> 02:06:23,680
Speaker 2: You're not terily optimistic, are you.

2335
02:06:23,720 --> 02:06:27,280
Speaker 5: No, it's I mean everyone's so in the great world

2336
02:06:27,400 --> 02:06:32,240
Speaker 5: is anti hunting, especially African hunting. But we're preserving these

2337
02:06:32,320 --> 02:06:36,360
Speaker 5: huge wilderness areas that have so much pressure. And I

2338
02:06:36,880 --> 02:06:39,720
Speaker 5: would be totally forwadive. There were other forms of land

2339
02:06:39,800 --> 02:06:43,600
Speaker 5: use that could protect it, and the photo tourism has

2340
02:06:43,680 --> 02:06:46,880
Speaker 5: their areas, but none of those people want to go

2341
02:06:46,920 --> 02:06:50,880
Speaker 5: to the places we hunt. It needs something to protect

2342
02:06:50,960 --> 02:06:53,880
Speaker 5: those areas, and at the moment, we're the answer. And

2343
02:06:53,960 --> 02:06:56,920
Speaker 5: until someone comes up with something else, people need to

2344
02:06:56,960 --> 02:06:58,760
Speaker 5: realize how important what we do is.

2345
02:06:59,000 --> 02:07:01,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's that huge temptation to like say, well, just

2346
02:07:01,520 --> 02:07:05,000
Speaker 2: swap the gun for the camera, right, and then there's

2347
02:07:05,080 --> 02:07:08,720
Speaker 2: no killing, there's no you know, it's then it's all

2348
02:07:09,120 --> 02:07:15,360
Speaker 2: quote unquote sustainable. The issue with that is Tanzania already

2349
02:07:15,400 --> 02:07:18,200
Speaker 2: has I think on the mainland, like I think it's

2350
02:07:18,480 --> 02:07:23,040
Speaker 2: fourteen or sixteen national parks, and I think three or

2351
02:07:23,160 --> 02:07:27,360
Speaker 2: four of them generate enough revenue from visitors to basically

2352
02:07:27,400 --> 02:07:30,400
Speaker 2: cover all those costs that we talked about, like having

2353
02:07:30,440 --> 02:07:33,360
Speaker 2: guys patrol the boundaries, having guys work with the local

2354
02:07:33,400 --> 02:07:39,720
Speaker 2: communities to kind of encourage you know, participation but not encroachment,

2355
02:07:41,400 --> 02:07:45,280
Speaker 2: and the rest of them, you know, and the government's

2356
02:07:45,320 --> 02:07:48,160
Speaker 2: doing their best, but again, resources are tight. It's a

2357
02:07:48,160 --> 02:07:51,360
Speaker 2: country that's trying to develop, trying to create more opportunities

2358
02:07:51,360 --> 02:07:53,480
Speaker 2: for their people. Resources are tight. So a lot of

2359
02:07:53,480 --> 02:07:57,680
Speaker 2: those areas that are ostensibly you know, for photographic tourism

2360
02:07:57,920 --> 02:08:00,760
Speaker 2: are just not in good shape. They're not adding the

2361
02:08:01,240 --> 02:08:05,160
Speaker 2: visitors to sort of cover the costs of managing those areas.

2362
02:08:05,200 --> 02:08:08,120
Speaker 2: And I can tell you a photo tourist isn't going

2363
02:08:08,200 --> 02:08:11,360
Speaker 2: to follow tracks of Buffalo for eight or ten hours

2364
02:08:11,400 --> 02:08:14,280
Speaker 2: a day and the baking hot sun pushing through thorn

2365
02:08:14,280 --> 02:08:16,520
Speaker 2: bushes to get a grainy image of the ars end

2366
02:08:16,600 --> 02:08:20,680
Speaker 2: of one direction. But hunters will do that all day

2367
02:08:20,720 --> 02:08:23,280
Speaker 2: long and pay for the privilege. So we have a

2368
02:08:23,440 --> 02:08:26,640
Speaker 2: different and while getting bitten by tetsiflies and you know,

2369
02:08:27,120 --> 02:08:30,960
Speaker 2: dodging snakes, I mean, we it's just a different it's

2370
02:08:31,000 --> 02:08:35,120
Speaker 2: a different client hell for a different product. But that

2371
02:08:35,240 --> 02:08:39,680
Speaker 2: ecosystem that has the low game density, the sandy soil

2372
02:08:39,720 --> 02:08:43,160
Speaker 2: and the Tetsi flies is no less valid of an

2373
02:08:43,160 --> 02:08:47,040
Speaker 2: ecosystem and no less important for sustaining certain species than

2374
02:08:47,080 --> 02:08:50,840
Speaker 2: the Serengeti is in my view. Kel's got a question

2375
02:08:50,880 --> 02:08:51,080
Speaker 2: for you.

2376
02:08:51,960 --> 02:08:55,360
Speaker 6: Oh I that was a beautiful statement. Linger a little bit.

2377
02:08:56,080 --> 02:08:56,280
Speaker 2: Yeah.

2378
02:08:56,440 --> 02:09:00,480
Speaker 6: Absolutely, habitat, man, it's all habitat it is. And one

2379
02:09:00,520 --> 02:09:02,920
Speaker 6: of the greatest things about hunting is the fact that

2380
02:09:03,880 --> 02:09:07,000
Speaker 6: a lot of people go to New York State, but

2381
02:09:07,120 --> 02:09:08,560
Speaker 6: they don't go to the parts of New York State

2382
02:09:08,600 --> 02:09:11,880
Speaker 6: that I go to, right, or swap that out for

2383
02:09:12,000 --> 02:09:17,200
Speaker 6: Montana or Maryland or wherever. It just takes you off

2384
02:09:17,280 --> 02:09:22,000
Speaker 6: of the tourist map, and it's it's a ultimately, in

2385
02:09:22,000 --> 02:09:24,320
Speaker 6: my mind, a much more real experience, right.

2386
02:09:24,240 --> 02:09:26,960
Speaker 2: Oh big time. I mean the thing that I say

2387
02:09:26,960 --> 02:09:29,720
Speaker 2: to people that it's like kind of become a little

2388
02:09:29,720 --> 02:09:33,880
Speaker 2: bit of something I repeat again and again. But safari,

2389
02:09:33,960 --> 02:09:37,360
Speaker 2: the word safari doesn't mean hunting trip. There's a word

2390
02:09:37,400 --> 02:09:39,840
Speaker 2: for hunting in Swahili. It's quinda, which I also think

2391
02:09:39,920 --> 02:09:41,920
Speaker 2: kind of rolls off the tongue to be honest, but

2392
02:09:42,280 --> 02:09:45,320
Speaker 2: that wasn't selected as the word to describe what we do.

2393
02:09:45,680 --> 02:09:50,640
Speaker 2: Safari was and what Safari means is journey, and people forget,

2394
02:09:51,400 --> 02:09:54,000
Speaker 2: like again to Roger's previous point about you know us

2395
02:09:54,040 --> 02:09:57,640
Speaker 2: sort of getting labeled and todd with this trophy hunter brush.

2396
02:09:57,960 --> 02:10:02,920
Speaker 2: People you know, just imagine in their mind's eye a

2397
02:10:02,960 --> 02:10:05,120
Speaker 2: bunch of kind of out of shape guys driving around

2398
02:10:05,160 --> 02:10:09,560
Speaker 2: on a truck indiscriminately shooting animals. But Safari is so

2399
02:10:09,760 --> 02:10:11,640
Speaker 2: much more than that, and it's exactly what you say.

2400
02:10:11,680 --> 02:10:15,480
Speaker 2: It's that connection with those wild places. It's the it's

2401
02:10:15,520 --> 02:10:18,280
Speaker 2: the adventure, It's it's the drama of it. I mean,

2402
02:10:18,360 --> 02:10:23,400
Speaker 2: you know, hopefully not as dramatic as what Roger that's

2403
02:10:23,400 --> 02:10:25,560
Speaker 2: the high drama. I like to keep things a little

2404
02:10:25,560 --> 02:10:29,160
Speaker 2: more mellow, but you know, it's it's it's the drama.

2405
02:10:29,200 --> 02:10:32,640
Speaker 2: It's the success, it's the failure. It's the sunrises, the sunsets,

2406
02:10:32,680 --> 02:10:36,600
Speaker 2: it's the sounds, the I mean, you know, on the

2407
02:10:36,680 --> 02:10:41,280
Speaker 2: last Safari I was on, we bumped into this giant python,

2408
02:10:41,480 --> 02:10:43,880
Speaker 2: like thirteen foot long and as thick as my thigh,

2409
02:10:44,240 --> 02:10:46,280
Speaker 2: and it was just it was so cool, you know,

2410
02:10:46,360 --> 02:10:49,520
Speaker 2: we we just we talked about that around the campfire

2411
02:10:49,520 --> 02:10:53,520
Speaker 2: and nothing got killed that day, you know, but we

2412
02:10:53,560 --> 02:10:56,160
Speaker 2: sat around the campfire, we're just like, I mean, my

2413
02:10:56,280 --> 02:10:58,760
Speaker 2: trackers stepped nearly stepped on its head and it's sort

2414
02:10:58,760 --> 02:11:02,280
Speaker 2: of reared up, and it was it was incredible, And yeah,

2415
02:11:02,320 --> 02:11:04,800
Speaker 2: we talked about it around the cap fire for hours

2416
02:11:04,880 --> 02:11:06,480
Speaker 2: and it was just like one of those things where

2417
02:11:06,520 --> 02:11:08,920
Speaker 2: you realize, like, that's Safari.

2418
02:11:08,680 --> 02:11:11,160
Speaker 5: It's the escape as well. It's like a lot of

2419
02:11:11,160 --> 02:11:13,280
Speaker 5: our clients say there's there's nowhere else in the world

2420
02:11:13,280 --> 02:11:17,560
Speaker 5: that they truly just switch off from everything apart from

2421
02:11:17,760 --> 02:11:19,720
Speaker 5: being out tracking buffalo.

2422
02:11:20,080 --> 02:11:24,120
Speaker 6: In big wild spaces. That's it's hard to get that elsewhere.

2423
02:11:25,520 --> 02:11:29,600
Speaker 6: I do have to ask you this one thing. It's

2424
02:11:29,640 --> 02:11:32,200
Speaker 6: not nearly as romantic and fun of as of the

2425
02:11:32,200 --> 02:11:36,040
Speaker 6: things we've been talking about, but what you have to

2426
02:11:36,040 --> 02:11:39,960
Speaker 6: go through to be a professional hunter as it is

2427
02:11:40,000 --> 02:11:44,400
Speaker 6: a profession, right, And then what is your response to

2428
02:11:46,320 --> 02:11:49,760
Speaker 6: people in North America who casually respond to themselves or

2429
02:11:49,920 --> 02:11:54,360
Speaker 6: refer to themselves rather as professional hunters.

2430
02:11:54,360 --> 02:12:02,000
Speaker 2: It's a subtle dig at Steve Vanilla, this guy I

2431
02:12:02,040 --> 02:12:02,600
Speaker 2: talk a lot.

2432
02:12:02,840 --> 02:12:04,960
Speaker 4: It is recorded. I want you to find where I've

2433
02:12:04,960 --> 02:12:05,640
Speaker 4: ever said.

2434
02:12:05,440 --> 02:12:08,840
Speaker 2: That, No, I think other people have said it about you.

2435
02:12:10,160 --> 02:12:15,480
Speaker 2: I'm being very facetious. It's it's it's a brotherhood. So

2436
02:12:15,640 --> 02:12:19,200
Speaker 2: I'm not in the business of of kind of dunking

2437
02:12:19,240 --> 02:12:22,480
Speaker 2: on other people talking, yeah, ship talking people that make

2438
02:12:22,520 --> 02:12:28,440
Speaker 2: their living, you know, guiding, you know whatever, doing whatever

2439
02:12:28,480 --> 02:12:30,720
Speaker 2: it is that they do that kind of allows them

2440
02:12:30,760 --> 02:12:32,560
Speaker 2: to refer to themselves that way.

2441
02:12:32,600 --> 02:12:36,080
Speaker 4: I had a professional shan Antler hunter around the podcast recently.

2442
02:12:36,520 --> 02:12:40,120
Speaker 2: Really, that is that I'm gonna have to think about it.

2443
02:12:41,040 --> 02:12:44,840
Speaker 2: I'm going to think it was as I'm gonna have

2444
02:12:44,920 --> 02:12:46,640
Speaker 2: to think about that one for a while because I'm

2445
02:12:46,680 --> 02:12:49,680
Speaker 2: still I'm still a little bit professional mushroom hunter.

2446
02:12:49,840 --> 02:12:52,600
Speaker 5: I guess, yeah, you do enough of anything, you become

2447
02:12:52,640 --> 02:12:55,200
Speaker 5: a professional for sure.

2448
02:12:55,320 --> 02:12:57,680
Speaker 2: And I mean ours is our our industry has got

2449
02:12:57,680 --> 02:13:00,720
Speaker 2: a little bit more of a sort of formal thing

2450
02:13:00,800 --> 02:13:03,480
Speaker 2: to it. But there are guys that will look at

2451
02:13:03,520 --> 02:13:06,600
Speaker 2: the kind of apprenticeship I've done, which some of it

2452
02:13:06,640 --> 02:13:08,800
Speaker 2: has been like a little bit self taught. Others have

2453
02:13:08,880 --> 02:13:13,560
Speaker 2: been really just following around you know these again incredible hunters.

2454
02:13:13,600 --> 02:13:16,760
Speaker 2: And going back to you know, Roger's comment that his

2455
02:13:16,800 --> 02:13:19,720
Speaker 2: brother chewed him out for not carrying his rifle. His

2456
02:13:19,800 --> 02:13:23,200
Speaker 2: brother Derek was like an early mentor to me getting

2457
02:13:23,240 --> 02:13:24,840
Speaker 2: into the business, and that was one of the first

2458
02:13:24,840 --> 02:13:26,640
Speaker 2: things he ever said to me. He's like, listen, when

2459
02:13:26,640 --> 02:13:28,640
Speaker 2: you get off the truck, doesn't matter if you're going

2460
02:13:28,720 --> 02:13:30,440
Speaker 2: to take a piss or. You're going to go check

2461
02:13:30,440 --> 02:13:32,800
Speaker 2: a water hole real quick, see if there's some tracks there.

2462
02:13:33,200 --> 02:13:36,200
Speaker 2: Grab that rifle, put you know, put around in it.

2463
02:13:36,520 --> 02:13:39,520
Speaker 2: And and that's that's the other thing. You always have

2464
02:13:39,560 --> 02:13:41,920
Speaker 2: a loaded rifle. There's no point carrying your rifle around

2465
02:13:41,960 --> 02:13:44,000
Speaker 2: of it doesn't have a bullet in the Yeah, this

2466
02:13:44,000 --> 02:13:46,880
Speaker 2: this rule applies to the client as well, by the way,

2467
02:13:46,920 --> 02:13:49,720
Speaker 2: But but stuff like that, you know, getting the opportunity

2468
02:13:49,720 --> 02:13:52,320
Speaker 2: to sit with those guys, another guy, Danny McCallum, who's

2469
02:13:52,360 --> 02:13:54,880
Speaker 2: one of the greats. You know, getting the opportunity to

2470
02:13:54,920 --> 02:13:57,400
Speaker 2: sit down with Danny and just pick his brain about stuff,

2471
02:13:58,480 --> 02:14:00,680
Speaker 2: you know, getting the opportunity to be on safari with

2472
02:14:00,720 --> 02:14:02,880
Speaker 2: some of these you know, these top hunters. Was it

2473
02:14:02,920 --> 02:14:05,320
Speaker 2: was a big deal for me. And then you know,

2474
02:14:05,400 --> 02:14:08,040
Speaker 2: ultimately going through my exams and all the rest of it.

2475
02:14:08,080 --> 02:14:09,280
Speaker 2: But I think.

2476
02:14:10,200 --> 02:14:13,040
Speaker 6: Exams accreditation, Yeah.

2477
02:14:12,680 --> 02:14:16,040
Speaker 2: There was a formal component to it that's against the Bible.

2478
02:14:19,200 --> 02:14:22,080
Speaker 2: I mean, and I'm not necessarily anchoring it to that

2479
02:14:22,120 --> 02:14:25,720
Speaker 2: there's a formal component to it for us, but yeah,

2480
02:14:25,840 --> 02:14:27,360
Speaker 2: I mean, I think.

2481
02:14:27,480 --> 02:14:30,240
Speaker 6: And then there's something where somebody adorns you with a

2482
02:14:31,000 --> 02:14:34,120
Speaker 6: break action rifle, a double rifle of some sort, but.

2483
02:14:36,840 --> 02:14:38,760
Speaker 4: You got to you got to carry it over your shoulder.

2484
02:14:38,880 --> 02:14:40,720
Speaker 6: I was in the camp one time when a guy

2485
02:14:40,800 --> 02:14:46,360
Speaker 6: was eyeballing me. I was guiding, and he said, uh,

2486
02:14:46,880 --> 02:14:48,440
Speaker 6: when are you going to get rid of that bolt

2487
02:14:48,560 --> 02:14:54,600
Speaker 6: trash and get yourself a real rifle, meaning a double rifle.

2488
02:14:56,360 --> 02:14:59,320
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's definitely a very split camp in the professional

2489
02:14:59,400 --> 02:15:02,120
Speaker 5: hunting world on bolt versus.

2490
02:15:02,400 --> 02:15:05,560
Speaker 2: We're double men firmly in that you guys do the

2491
02:15:05,880 --> 02:15:09,280
Speaker 2: little bit tradition, the big doubles. Yeah we do. We

2492
02:15:09,360 --> 02:15:10,760
Speaker 2: both do, Yeah, Rogers.

2493
02:15:10,840 --> 02:15:14,560
Speaker 5: But it's a question of is two shots better than

2494
02:15:14,600 --> 02:15:18,280
Speaker 5: potentially three shots? Is what it comes down to. We

2495
02:15:18,280 --> 02:15:20,600
Speaker 5: can get two shots so faster a bolt action guy

2496
02:15:20,680 --> 02:15:22,000
Speaker 5: can maybe get the third.

2497
02:15:22,160 --> 02:15:23,520
Speaker 6: You can miss twice real fast.

2498
02:15:23,680 --> 02:15:26,680
Speaker 2: Yeah. One of my again, one of my mental might

2499
02:15:26,680 --> 02:15:29,280
Speaker 2: have been. It might have been. Derek also said to me,

2500
02:15:29,680 --> 02:15:32,760
Speaker 2: you know, when you're shooting that double rifle, if something

2501
02:15:32,800 --> 02:15:35,920
Speaker 2: comes you know, by all means, when you first see it,

2502
02:15:36,000 --> 02:15:39,120
Speaker 2: fire that first barrel, but hold on to that second

2503
02:15:39,120 --> 02:15:41,840
Speaker 2: barrel until you can't miss till till the end of

2504
02:15:41,840 --> 02:15:44,760
Speaker 2: there you're touching.

2505
02:15:44,800 --> 02:15:47,000
Speaker 4: It's you know, I'm assuming both of you guys have

2506
02:15:47,040 --> 02:15:48,040
Speaker 4: had to shoot charge and.

2507
02:15:47,960 --> 02:15:51,200
Speaker 5: Stuff yep a few times.

2508
02:15:51,520 --> 02:15:56,880
Speaker 2: Like every year, thing, every decade, it varies. I will

2509
02:15:56,920 --> 02:16:02,280
Speaker 2: say this, A lot is made of the danger element

2510
02:16:02,400 --> 02:16:05,560
Speaker 2: of what we do. And it's there, you know Roger's

2511
02:16:05,600 --> 02:16:08,800
Speaker 2: situation as a classic example that had to gone differently.

2512
02:16:09,800 --> 02:16:12,960
Speaker 2: You know, two little boys are growing up without a dad.

2513
02:16:13,120 --> 02:16:16,040
Speaker 2: You know the dangers there, and we'll we'll put our

2514
02:16:16,040 --> 02:16:19,720
Speaker 2: lives on on the line for our clients, like Roger demonstrated.

2515
02:16:20,400 --> 02:16:25,960
Speaker 2: But I consider with with some exceptions, right, there's always

2516
02:16:26,040 --> 02:16:29,240
Speaker 2: edge cases, but I generally consider a charge to be

2517
02:16:29,360 --> 02:16:32,160
Speaker 2: the result of a screw up from either the professional

2518
02:16:32,200 --> 02:16:33,080
Speaker 2: hunter or the client.

2519
02:16:33,320 --> 02:16:35,680
Speaker 6: Well, that one game made a whole video series about

2520
02:16:35,680 --> 02:16:38,440
Speaker 6: getting charged by everything in Africa over and over and

2521
02:16:38,480 --> 02:16:39,000
Speaker 6: over again.

2522
02:16:39,120 --> 02:16:42,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, we we don't, we don't operate that way, and

2523
02:16:42,360 --> 02:16:44,840
Speaker 2: I'll just leave it at that. But but I think

2524
02:16:45,080 --> 02:16:47,800
Speaker 2: the bottom line for me is a charge is a

2525
02:16:47,879 --> 02:16:52,320
Speaker 2: highly undesirable situation. The buffalo hunt or the lion hunt

2526
02:16:52,440 --> 02:16:54,879
Speaker 2: or the leopard hunt that you will remember and that

2527
02:16:55,000 --> 02:16:59,280
Speaker 2: will make you smile every time you think about it.

2528
02:16:59,320 --> 02:17:01,720
Speaker 2: Is exactly like the deer hunt, the bear hunt, the

2529
02:17:01,760 --> 02:17:03,920
Speaker 2: elk hunt. And that's the one where you make a

2530
02:17:03,959 --> 02:17:06,480
Speaker 2: great stalk, you get close to your quarry and you

2531
02:17:06,640 --> 02:17:10,840
Speaker 2: make a clean, you know, proper kill, proper shot that

2532
02:17:10,879 --> 02:17:13,720
Speaker 2: results in a clean kill on that animal, and then

2533
02:17:13,720 --> 02:17:16,959
Speaker 2: you're able to enjoy that that wonderful moment of sitting

2534
02:17:16,959 --> 02:17:19,600
Speaker 2: there with your animal, whether it's a meat animal or

2535
02:17:19,959 --> 02:17:23,360
Speaker 2: or a trophy animal or you know, obviously both in

2536
02:17:23,680 --> 02:17:26,360
Speaker 2: ninety nine point nine percent of cases, and you and

2537
02:17:26,400 --> 02:17:28,480
Speaker 2: you can just, you know, you can really enjoy that.

2538
02:17:28,480 --> 02:17:30,440
Speaker 2: That is what you come to Africa for, not to

2539
02:17:30,480 --> 02:17:31,400
Speaker 2: be attacked by things.

2540
02:17:31,480 --> 02:17:34,120
Speaker 5: And the biggest part of the biggest part of our

2541
02:17:34,120 --> 02:17:38,480
Speaker 5: apprenticeship is really teaching you how to not get yourself.

2542
02:17:39,720 --> 02:17:43,000
Speaker 5: It's about teaching your caution and not just going, you know,

2543
02:17:43,200 --> 02:17:44,840
Speaker 5: guns blazing into a situation.

2544
02:17:44,879 --> 02:17:48,440
Speaker 4: Sure, I mean, I tell you, I you know, I've

2545
02:17:48,440 --> 02:17:51,039
Speaker 4: always kind of wanted to I've always kind of wanted

2546
02:17:51,080 --> 02:17:53,119
Speaker 4: to go to Africa, and we've even looked at it

2547
02:17:53,560 --> 02:17:55,840
Speaker 4: when we were filming a lot of shows we've even

2548
02:17:55,879 --> 02:17:57,800
Speaker 4: at times kicked it around.

2549
02:17:58,800 --> 02:18:00,600
Speaker 2: But after having you guys doing, man, I want to

2550
02:18:00,640 --> 02:18:03,000
Speaker 2: go so bad and hunt keep buffalo, make it happen.

2551
02:18:04,360 --> 02:18:08,800
Speaker 2: Let's make it happen. It's I just want nothing like it.

2552
02:18:08,800 --> 02:18:11,920
Speaker 2: It's just really different. It's really different to love to

2553
02:18:12,000 --> 02:18:16,880
Speaker 2: check it out. Yeah, it's I think there's a reason why,

2554
02:18:17,440 --> 02:18:20,600
Speaker 2: you know, Africas sort of held this place in people's

2555
02:18:20,640 --> 02:18:24,240
Speaker 2: imaginations for a long time. And you know, obviously you

2556
02:18:24,320 --> 02:18:26,720
Speaker 2: know there's that danger element and so on and so forth.

2557
02:18:26,760 --> 02:18:28,920
Speaker 2: But again it goes back to my previous point about

2558
02:18:29,280 --> 02:18:32,760
Speaker 2: all those things that make up Safari, like what Safari is,

2559
02:18:33,040 --> 02:18:35,560
Speaker 2: that's what sticks with people. You guys really sold me

2560
02:18:35,600 --> 02:18:39,720
Speaker 2: on the Tanzania deal too, because like the wilderness aspect, man, well, interest,

2561
02:18:40,080 --> 02:18:43,720
Speaker 2: in my opinion, Tanzania is, you know, the greatest game

2562
02:18:43,840 --> 02:18:46,640
Speaker 2: field left on Earth, you know. And I get that's

2563
02:18:46,680 --> 02:18:49,680
Speaker 2: sort of a controversial thing to say. And I don't

2564
02:18:49,720 --> 02:18:52,160
Speaker 2: mean to sort of start a comparison my body Matt

2565
02:18:52,200 --> 02:18:58,959
Speaker 2: Cook's place. Yeah, yeah, I don't, and I don't mean

2566
02:18:59,000 --> 02:19:02,000
Speaker 2: to like start up sort of pissing match, but well.

2567
02:19:01,959 --> 02:19:05,920
Speaker 6: Species, how many species on the the.

2568
02:19:06,440 --> 02:19:09,720
Speaker 5: Oh, well between between all different hunting areas. There's a

2569
02:19:09,760 --> 02:19:13,560
Speaker 5: there's about thirty three different species of animals you can

2570
02:19:14,000 --> 02:19:14,600
Speaker 5: game animal.

2571
02:19:14,720 --> 02:19:19,200
Speaker 6: Yeah, out of one camp, how what's the variety of.

2572
02:19:19,160 --> 02:19:22,920
Speaker 2: Probably twenty in any given Yeah.

2573
02:19:22,959 --> 02:19:25,280
Speaker 4: But I'm not looking, man, I'm very I want to

2574
02:19:25,320 --> 02:19:27,960
Speaker 4: be very targeted being I'm not looking to be like, oh,

2575
02:19:27,959 --> 02:19:28,760
Speaker 4: that's what one of them is.

2576
02:19:28,800 --> 02:19:29,560
Speaker 6: But there's no.

2577
02:19:31,400 --> 02:19:34,119
Speaker 2: Want to be like, well, what's that? What's that?

2578
02:19:34,160 --> 02:19:37,200
Speaker 4: Well there is, but they kind of sold me on Yeah,

2579
02:19:37,640 --> 02:19:39,840
Speaker 4: they I don't know to put words your mouth, these

2580
02:19:39,840 --> 02:19:42,640
Speaker 4: guys really like tracking those Kate buffalo and they kind

2581
02:19:42,640 --> 02:19:44,640
Speaker 4: of sold me on that as being sort of like the.

2582
02:19:44,840 --> 02:19:48,240
Speaker 6: And when you're on that, there's just less uh sight

2583
02:19:48,280 --> 02:19:49,240
Speaker 6: seeing opportunity.

2584
02:19:49,440 --> 02:19:52,640
Speaker 2: It consumes. But there you'll you'll bump into stuff that

2585
02:19:53,200 --> 02:19:55,800
Speaker 2: you know, it'll be a particularly nice specimen or whatever.

2586
02:19:55,840 --> 02:19:59,000
Speaker 2: While you're tracking buffalo or when you're heading back to

2587
02:19:59,080 --> 02:20:02,280
Speaker 2: camp or whatever, you'll pins of stuff. And there's definitely species.

2588
02:20:02,320 --> 02:20:04,959
Speaker 5: There's a list of species that are what we call

2589
02:20:05,360 --> 02:20:08,600
Speaker 5: real hunts. So you're not just going to see one

2590
02:20:09,240 --> 02:20:09,960
Speaker 5: driving around.

2591
02:20:10,840 --> 02:20:13,960
Speaker 6: You know, I grew up guiding in eastern Montana for antelope,

2592
02:20:14,400 --> 02:20:17,640
Speaker 6: and people got so distracted by all the other stuff

2593
02:20:17,680 --> 02:20:20,360
Speaker 6: that you could do that, it became very challenging to

2594
02:20:20,520 --> 02:20:23,480
Speaker 6: kill an antelope, which at the time was not hard

2595
02:20:23,480 --> 02:20:26,400
Speaker 6: to do, but it was like, well, I want to

2596
02:20:26,480 --> 02:20:29,080
Speaker 6: chase those birds or chase those rabbits or you know,

2597
02:20:29,120 --> 02:20:32,240
Speaker 6: and all the distraction things. So I know that in

2598
02:20:32,360 --> 02:20:34,320
Speaker 6: order to be successful, it's something you really have to.

2599
02:20:36,840 --> 02:20:38,560
Speaker 6: If I were to go all the way to Africa,

2600
02:20:38,920 --> 02:20:40,959
Speaker 6: I would also just want to be able to be like,

2601
02:20:41,000 --> 02:20:43,160
Speaker 6: holy shit, there's that thing that I've only seen in

2602
02:20:43,160 --> 02:20:44,800
Speaker 6: the book. Oh my god, look at that.

2603
02:20:46,240 --> 02:20:49,680
Speaker 4: They said you will see lions and tracking the track

2604
02:20:49,720 --> 02:20:51,080
Speaker 4: in the Buffalo.

2605
02:20:50,720 --> 02:20:53,359
Speaker 5: Quite often there, we'll say tracking the belt, you will.

2606
02:20:53,160 --> 02:20:58,000
Speaker 4: See lions, you'll see elephants, you'll see war hogs, all

2607
02:20:58,000 --> 02:20:58,600
Speaker 4: this kind of junk.

2608
02:20:58,680 --> 02:20:58,760
Speaker 3: Man.

2609
02:20:58,840 --> 02:21:00,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, you'll see it. You'll just see it around. I mean,

2610
02:21:00,879 --> 02:21:02,720
Speaker 2: when you're driving around in the area, you'll see it.

2611
02:21:02,760 --> 02:21:05,840
Speaker 2: And man, some of those animals are good to eat. Yeah,

2612
02:21:06,160 --> 02:21:08,119
Speaker 2: but it's a really it also sounds like a track,

2613
02:21:08,160 --> 02:21:09,840
Speaker 2: and it sounds like a real grind. You put some

2614
02:21:09,879 --> 02:21:10,760
Speaker 2: big miles.

2615
02:21:10,440 --> 02:21:13,720
Speaker 6: On it, the track sounds phenomenal, Like you guys do.

2616
02:21:13,800 --> 02:21:14,400
Speaker 2: Some ten miles.

2617
02:21:14,480 --> 02:21:16,520
Speaker 4: You guys do some ten mile sessions easily.

2618
02:21:16,800 --> 02:21:20,320
Speaker 5: Yeah, easily, and it will be seven to ten miles.

2619
02:21:20,080 --> 02:21:24,119
Speaker 2: And that ulfalo, you know, snorting at you, I can't

2620
02:21:24,120 --> 02:21:24,760
Speaker 2: even see it.

2621
02:21:25,520 --> 02:21:29,240
Speaker 6: You consistently have the clientele that is willing to show

2622
02:21:29,320 --> 02:21:31,000
Speaker 6: up and walk seven to ten miles a day.

2623
02:21:32,000 --> 02:21:33,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, we tell them.

2624
02:21:33,120 --> 02:21:36,439
Speaker 5: I mean you have to judge the client and sometimes,

2625
02:21:36,640 --> 02:21:39,320
Speaker 5: you know, I've had a eighty three year old on

2626
02:21:39,440 --> 02:21:42,800
Speaker 5: safari and it reaches a stage where you've just got

2627
02:21:42,840 --> 02:21:43,320
Speaker 5: to cool it.

2628
02:21:43,440 --> 02:21:44,400
Speaker 2: Just different, itinerary.

2629
02:21:44,480 --> 02:21:46,360
Speaker 10: But yeah, you always bring the bag of em and

2630
02:21:46,480 --> 02:21:48,000
Speaker 10: M's right, yeah exactly.

2631
02:21:47,600 --> 02:21:48,840
Speaker 5: I always have.

2632
02:21:50,520 --> 02:21:53,240
Speaker 2: Already. Yeah, I could have bought those at home.

2633
02:21:55,040 --> 02:21:56,000
Speaker 5: The cliff bars, there are.

2634
02:21:57,480 --> 02:22:01,080
Speaker 2: Some source of energy. Yeah, yeah, it's I mean, you know,

2635
02:22:01,640 --> 02:22:05,680
Speaker 2: every buffalo hunt's different. But I think Roger and I

2636
02:22:05,680 --> 02:22:07,959
Speaker 2: feel the same way as like as probably you guys do.

2637
02:22:08,440 --> 02:22:11,520
Speaker 2: The you're driving down the track and there's one standing

2638
02:22:11,520 --> 02:22:13,280
Speaker 2: off to the side of the road, even if it's

2639
02:22:13,280 --> 02:22:18,800
Speaker 2: a real big one, it's like, you got to track them.

2640
02:22:18,879 --> 02:22:20,520
Speaker 2: You've got to track them. It's got to be proper,

2641
02:22:20,560 --> 02:22:23,280
Speaker 2: it's got to be done right. There's no and there

2642
02:22:23,360 --> 02:22:25,120
Speaker 2: is hardly ever an easy buffon.

2643
02:22:25,480 --> 02:22:27,920
Speaker 5: And that's what's so beautiful about them is it's it's

2644
02:22:27,920 --> 02:22:31,720
Speaker 5: always an adventure, and I don't know. I always people say,

2645
02:22:31,720 --> 02:22:35,440
Speaker 5: how could you liken it to hunting in North America?

2646
02:22:36,320 --> 02:22:39,320
Speaker 5: And I think from what I hear, I think elk

2647
02:22:39,360 --> 02:22:42,480
Speaker 5: hunting is probably the nearest thing. But they're not in

2648
02:22:42,520 --> 02:22:46,640
Speaker 5: a huge danger element of adrenaline and excitement on top

2649
02:22:46,720 --> 02:22:49,840
Speaker 5: of it being a huge challenge in a beautiful wilderness.

2650
02:22:50,080 --> 02:22:52,640
Speaker 2: And what's what's tipped horn tip? The horn tip size

2651
02:22:52,640 --> 02:22:55,120
Speaker 2: on those things, well, it varies.

2652
02:22:55,240 --> 02:22:57,959
Speaker 5: It can vary from as wide as its head like

2653
02:22:58,000 --> 02:23:01,400
Speaker 5: the one that hit me to forty five inches.

2654
02:23:02,080 --> 02:23:02,320
Speaker 10: Wow.

2655
02:23:02,959 --> 02:23:06,160
Speaker 2: For us, the trophy is an old one. Your trophies

2656
02:23:06,160 --> 02:23:10,600
Speaker 2: a nali one, the gnaria the better. Like if I

2657
02:23:10,600 --> 02:23:12,560
Speaker 2: if I could only shoot one buffalo in my life

2658
02:23:12,600 --> 02:23:14,680
Speaker 2: and it was like that one that got rodged with,

2659
02:23:17,000 --> 02:23:19,960
Speaker 2: I'd be psyched. I'd be happy to have that on

2660
02:23:20,000 --> 02:23:22,000
Speaker 2: my wall. I'd be absolutely thrilled.

2661
02:23:22,080 --> 02:23:24,320
Speaker 6: Little chunk of Rogers collar bone.

2662
02:23:24,120 --> 02:23:29,560
Speaker 2: Stuff, that's an added bonus. But yeah, that you know,

2663
02:23:29,680 --> 02:23:32,920
Speaker 2: a trophy is in the kind of the eye of

2664
02:23:32,920 --> 02:23:36,760
Speaker 2: the beholder, you know, as long as it's old. I mean,

2665
02:23:37,120 --> 02:23:39,520
Speaker 2: I've shot some buffalo that's horns are barely as white

2666
02:23:39,560 --> 02:23:43,280
Speaker 2: as there is. But I was yeah, or or just

2667
02:23:43,360 --> 02:23:46,120
Speaker 2: he was small. He's just a small buffalo, just like

2668
02:23:46,120 --> 02:23:48,080
Speaker 2: you get a small elk, Like you're just a small buffalo,

2669
02:23:48,120 --> 02:23:50,160
Speaker 2: never going to get any bigger. That's just how it

2670
02:23:50,320 --> 02:23:51,520
Speaker 2: was how he was made.

2671
02:23:51,800 --> 02:23:55,240
Speaker 5: Rick By started this award they called the Dugger Boy Award,

2672
02:23:55,320 --> 02:23:59,080
Speaker 5: which in my opinion is probably the best hunting award

2673
02:23:59,080 --> 02:24:03,120
Speaker 5: that I've ever heard of. And the criteria of how

2674
02:24:03,160 --> 02:24:06,240
Speaker 5: they judge it is not based on the size of

2675
02:24:06,280 --> 02:24:10,119
Speaker 5: the animal. It's it's all about the age and how

2676
02:24:10,160 --> 02:24:13,240
Speaker 5: hard a hunt. It was like four or five factors,

2677
02:24:13,240 --> 02:24:15,920
Speaker 5: but it's nothing to do with the the inches. It

2678
02:24:16,000 --> 02:24:18,800
Speaker 5: is just to do with age and how physical or

2679
02:24:18,800 --> 02:24:22,439
Speaker 5: difficult it was to achieve. So what made it so memorable?

2680
02:24:23,520 --> 02:24:26,120
Speaker 5: And it's Yeah, it's amazing. I think it's a great idea.

2681
02:24:27,320 --> 02:24:30,240
Speaker 2: Guy should get a high score. I'm hoping it's his

2682
02:24:30,320 --> 02:24:35,480
Speaker 2: only chance. His dad's a judge, so the only way

2683
02:24:35,560 --> 02:24:39,480
Speaker 2: for him to win is getting that one. I think

2684
02:24:39,560 --> 02:24:40,320
Speaker 2: I think you can go with.

2685
02:24:41,320 --> 02:24:42,119
Speaker 5: Case with that one.

2686
02:24:42,240 --> 02:24:47,039
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think if I was Africa, how would hire

2687
02:24:47,080 --> 02:24:48,160
Speaker 2: you guys to go around?

2688
02:24:48,560 --> 02:24:48,640
Speaker 5: Like?

2689
02:24:48,760 --> 02:24:55,960
Speaker 2: Given the spiel? Well, Americans, I mean, we will talk

2690
02:24:56,040 --> 02:24:59,080
Speaker 2: to anyone who listen about what we do because we

2691
02:24:59,280 --> 02:25:02,960
Speaker 2: I would say, a from the privilege of getting to

2692
02:25:03,320 --> 02:25:06,240
Speaker 2: do what I do and be with those trackers, be

2693
02:25:06,400 --> 02:25:10,560
Speaker 2: with those like minded people, your clients, some phenomenal clients

2694
02:25:10,560 --> 02:25:13,920
Speaker 2: over the years that I would say my mission if

2695
02:25:13,959 --> 02:25:16,320
Speaker 2: I had to like define it, and I know, like

2696
02:25:16,400 --> 02:25:18,959
Speaker 2: it's a sort of it's very American thing to like

2697
02:25:19,000 --> 02:25:20,880
Speaker 2: talk about your mission, but I'm going I'm gonna get

2698
02:25:20,879 --> 02:25:23,240
Speaker 2: on board with that. And my mission, I would say,

2699
02:25:23,320 --> 02:25:28,240
Speaker 2: is to change people's perception of what our industry is about,

2700
02:25:28,480 --> 02:25:31,320
Speaker 2: because I think we've we've labored under we've sort of

2701
02:25:31,360 --> 02:25:36,160
Speaker 2: had this albatross around our neck of like like edge cases,

2702
02:25:36,640 --> 02:25:38,440
Speaker 2: like people like to focus I think it's like a

2703
02:25:38,520 --> 02:25:41,240
Speaker 2: human nature thing. People like to focus on like edge

2704
02:25:41,280 --> 02:25:44,000
Speaker 2: cases and use them as an example of why a

2705
02:25:44,160 --> 02:25:49,440
Speaker 2: whole system is just irreparably like not gonna work. I

2706
02:25:49,520 --> 02:25:51,200
Speaker 2: do that every day, Yeah, I mean we all do.

2707
02:25:51,320 --> 02:25:53,800
Speaker 2: It's like it's like an easy it's an easy path

2708
02:25:53,840 --> 02:25:59,600
Speaker 2: to go down, but inspier Ball a famous el go

2709
02:26:00,080 --> 02:26:03,480
Speaker 2: from there to whatever. Yeah, But for us, you know,

2710
02:26:03,680 --> 02:26:08,920
Speaker 2: I think our industry, we can honestly say that wildlife

2711
02:26:09,120 --> 02:26:13,160
Speaker 2: in Tanzania is better off for it than without it,

2712
02:26:13,640 --> 02:26:16,080
Speaker 2: and that's all that's going to come down to soon

2713
02:26:16,160 --> 02:26:18,480
Speaker 2: with all you know, all the pressure that's coming from

2714
02:26:18,520 --> 02:26:21,160
Speaker 2: population growth and everything else, it's going to be just

2715
02:26:21,200 --> 02:26:21,880
Speaker 2: come down to that.

2716
02:26:23,560 --> 02:26:26,800
Speaker 5: Yeah, And it's a passion like for us, it's it's

2717
02:26:26,920 --> 02:26:29,760
Speaker 5: really none of us are in it as. You don't

2718
02:26:29,800 --> 02:26:32,080
Speaker 5: sign up to be a professional hunter to make a

2719
02:26:32,080 --> 02:26:34,959
Speaker 5: lot of money. You do it because you care about

2720
02:26:35,360 --> 02:26:38,000
Speaker 5: these wilderness areas. I mean, we've got areas that we've

2721
02:26:38,560 --> 02:26:42,720
Speaker 5: taken care of for forty five years and you know,

2722
02:26:42,520 --> 02:26:46,600
Speaker 5: you have a bond with these places that is second

2723
02:26:46,680 --> 02:26:49,680
Speaker 5: to nothing, and a lot of it. You know, you

2724
02:26:49,680 --> 02:26:51,720
Speaker 5: can tell we're both pretty passionate about it. But it's

2725
02:26:51,840 --> 02:26:54,840
Speaker 5: it's our responsibility to try and educate people on some

2726
02:26:54,920 --> 02:26:58,080
Speaker 5: of the realities in Africa, what it's like on the

2727
02:26:58,120 --> 02:27:01,400
Speaker 5: ground that you might not realize living somewhere in the

2728
02:27:01,520 --> 02:27:02,640
Speaker 5: United States, for example.

2729
02:27:02,800 --> 02:27:03,959
Speaker 2: You guys do a good job of it.

2730
02:27:04,280 --> 02:27:06,560
Speaker 4: I'm gonna start to go fund me be called Steve

2731
02:27:06,600 --> 02:27:09,800
Speaker 4: Goes Hunt in Africa. Then, you know, I wish we

2732
02:27:09,800 --> 02:27:11,800
Speaker 4: were playing trivia because I bet we beat you guys bad,

2733
02:27:11,840 --> 02:27:12,800
Speaker 4: because you wouldn't know all the.

2734
02:27:12,720 --> 02:27:16,200
Speaker 2: Americas North America thrash US if a.

2735
02:27:16,120 --> 02:27:18,640
Speaker 4: Trivia show right now and a lot of them like

2736
02:27:18,680 --> 02:27:19,520
Speaker 4: what river.

2737
02:27:22,920 --> 02:27:26,119
Speaker 2: You guys, so we get we get.

2738
02:27:27,160 --> 02:27:29,400
Speaker 6: I mean if there was a question of like name

2739
02:27:29,480 --> 02:27:33,480
Speaker 6: these five antelope species and I'd be like, oh boy.

2740
02:27:33,040 --> 02:27:34,800
Speaker 2: We might have to go.

2741
02:27:35,120 --> 02:27:37,760
Speaker 4: It makes me realize how American our trivia game is

2742
02:27:38,640 --> 02:27:40,600
Speaker 4: very American bad.

2743
02:27:41,040 --> 02:27:41,800
Speaker 2: That makes sense.

2744
02:27:42,000 --> 02:27:44,520
Speaker 4: But we're gonna you know what, we're launching our trivia,

2745
02:27:45,280 --> 02:27:47,200
Speaker 4: our trivia, We're launching a trivia board game.

2746
02:27:47,920 --> 02:27:49,840
Speaker 2: Nice and see.

2747
02:27:49,640 --> 02:27:51,400
Speaker 4: Here's the long Let me give you a little insight

2748
02:27:51,440 --> 02:27:54,080
Speaker 4: into the into board the board game world. What you

2749
02:27:54,120 --> 02:27:57,240
Speaker 4: do is you launch board game and then you and

2750
02:27:57,280 --> 02:28:03,039
Speaker 4: then every year you have actual expansion pack. So like

2751
02:28:03,080 --> 02:28:06,360
Speaker 4: we can't decide if our first expansion expansion pack would

2752
02:28:06,360 --> 02:28:10,680
Speaker 4: be like the White Tail expansion pack, the Waterfoul expansion pack.

2753
02:28:11,840 --> 02:28:14,119
Speaker 4: We'll consult with you guys down the road and we'll

2754
02:28:14,120 --> 02:28:16,920
Speaker 4: do the Safari Expansion pack or whatever that word is

2755
02:28:16,959 --> 02:28:21,720
Speaker 4: you had, yeah, Kuinda, And then people that have like

2756
02:28:21,760 --> 02:28:26,560
Speaker 4: a little have some curiosity about African big game could

2757
02:28:26,600 --> 02:28:29,039
Speaker 4: buy that expansion pack and it'd be like they could

2758
02:28:29,120 --> 02:28:30,640
Speaker 4: mix it in and they have all these questions like

2759
02:28:30,720 --> 02:28:31,640
Speaker 4: what you're talking about.

2760
02:28:31,640 --> 02:28:33,879
Speaker 2: And then we'll come back on and do trivia and

2761
02:28:33,920 --> 02:28:36,720
Speaker 2: it'll be will be a little more even.

2762
02:28:37,040 --> 02:28:40,039
Speaker 4: If we drop from that deck. Another expansion pack we

2763
02:28:40,120 --> 02:28:44,960
Speaker 4: talked about was like mountain Men and Frontiersman expansion pack.

2764
02:28:45,040 --> 02:28:47,400
Speaker 4: But I don't know, if you come up with enough questions.

2765
02:28:47,120 --> 02:28:49,960
Speaker 2: We can throw in some cool stuff about like some

2766
02:28:50,000 --> 02:28:52,120
Speaker 2: of those early Africa guys like this guy F. C.

2767
02:28:52,280 --> 02:28:55,720
Speaker 2: Salou for example, just to just a wild man, just

2768
02:28:55,760 --> 02:28:58,840
Speaker 2: to have that no Americans give. Yeah, but some American

2769
02:28:58,879 --> 02:29:00,960
Speaker 2: I mean again, if they've read, if they've read about

2770
02:29:01,000 --> 02:29:03,920
Speaker 2: the Roosevelt Safari, they'll know who F. C. Salu is.

2771
02:29:04,320 --> 02:29:06,959
Speaker 2: Really Yeah, they'll know that guy's name, and they should.

2772
02:29:07,080 --> 02:29:07,920
Speaker 2: Everyone should.

2773
02:29:08,360 --> 02:29:13,280
Speaker 4: I got one last question, pith helmets mandatory.

2774
02:29:14,240 --> 02:29:16,320
Speaker 2: Anymore? Definitely not.

2775
02:29:18,240 --> 02:29:21,680
Speaker 5: I have had one client get off a carelem plane

2776
02:29:22,120 --> 02:29:26,880
Speaker 5: with his socks pulled up, his hunting jacket and that

2777
02:29:27,240 --> 02:29:29,120
Speaker 5: he was a writer, to be fair, so he was

2778
02:29:29,200 --> 02:29:32,879
Speaker 5: trying to recreate this feel he wanted to feel it

2779
02:29:32,920 --> 02:29:34,000
Speaker 5: from the beginning.

2780
02:29:33,600 --> 02:29:39,560
Speaker 2: To hes a method writer. I dig it, I honestly

2781
02:29:39,600 --> 02:29:41,360
Speaker 2: I did. I've got a lot of admiration for that

2782
02:29:41,400 --> 02:29:43,679
Speaker 2: guy that that takes balls.

2783
02:29:44,520 --> 02:29:48,320
Speaker 7: Launch instead of like a regular trucker cap We should

2784
02:29:48,560 --> 02:29:48,879
Speaker 7: have a.

2785
02:29:51,440 --> 02:29:54,200
Speaker 2: Some of the Zimbarbiean professional hunters laugh at me for

2786
02:29:54,240 --> 02:29:57,120
Speaker 2: wearing boots. So I think a pith helmet is going

2787
02:29:57,200 --> 02:30:02,080
Speaker 2: to be like a non starter. Well, I'll look it

2788
02:30:02,160 --> 02:30:02,520
Speaker 2: up later.

2789
02:30:02,600 --> 02:30:04,760
Speaker 4: Still, I'm not quite clear of why they wore them.

2790
02:30:05,040 --> 02:30:05,800
Speaker 4: Was that sun protection?

2791
02:30:06,800 --> 02:30:07,720
Speaker 5: Shade?

2792
02:30:08,360 --> 02:30:11,120
Speaker 2: Sun protection? I don't think it's gonna stop a bullet?

2793
02:30:11,520 --> 02:30:16,280
Speaker 4: No, No, all right, Robin Hurt Safaris, that's the place.

2794
02:30:18,160 --> 02:30:22,800
Speaker 4: Don't call down there until I get my situation squared away.

2795
02:30:23,200 --> 02:30:25,039
Speaker 2: Have a thing on the web to just shut the

2796
02:30:25,040 --> 02:30:27,480
Speaker 2: website down. Yeah, just a few days until I get

2797
02:30:27,520 --> 02:30:29,960
Speaker 2: my situations will and we will hold something for you.

2798
02:30:30,040 --> 02:30:31,959
Speaker 2: We'll hold something for you, dude, I want to go

2799
02:30:32,080 --> 02:30:35,040
Speaker 2: so bad. Man. All right, what are you thinking? Phil?

2800
02:30:35,120 --> 02:30:35,360
Speaker 5: You in?

2801
02:30:36,720 --> 02:30:39,680
Speaker 2: Is this my official invite? Well, let's even get that

2802
02:30:39,800 --> 02:30:44,000
Speaker 2: editing pulled together. Turn it around on the Edits all

2803
02:30:44,040 --> 02:30:46,720
Speaker 2: depends on how the next couple of weeks go. It sounds. Yeah,

2804
02:30:47,440 --> 02:30:49,160
Speaker 2: all right, guys, thanks so much for coming on. Man,

2805
02:30:49,160 --> 02:30:50,240
Speaker 2: this is great, Thanks.

2806
02:30:50,120 --> 02:30:50,840
Speaker 5: Thanks for having us.

2807
02:30:50,920 --> 02:31:00,640
Speaker 9: Yeah, go on.

2808
02:31:02,760 --> 02:31:09,560
Speaker 4: On the seal Brey, shine like silver in the sun.

2809
02:31:13,400 --> 02:31:22,520
Speaker 9: Ride, Ride, Ride on along, sweetheart. We're done.

2810
02:31:22,720 --> 02:31:27,280
Speaker 2: Beat this damn horse to death. Taking a new one.

2811
02:31:28,280 --> 02:31:34,280
Speaker 2: Ride away. We're done beat this damn

2812
02:31:34,600 --> 02:31:40,679
Speaker 4: Horse today, so take your new one and ride on.