1
00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:11,120
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.

2
00:00:14,240 --> 00:00:17,160
Speaker 2: Well, Elon Musk gives now the richest person on the planet.

3
00:00:17,480 --> 00:00:20,319
Speaker 3: More than half the satellites in space are owned and

4
00:00:20,440 --> 00:00:22,160
Speaker 3: controlled by one man.

5
00:00:22,760 --> 00:00:25,759
Speaker 4: Well, he's a legitimate super genius. I mean legitimate.

6
00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:28,600
Speaker 1: He says he's always voted for Democrats, but this year

7
00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:29,400
Speaker 1: it will be different.

8
00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:30,400
Speaker 4: He'll vote Republican.

9
00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:33,159
Speaker 5: There is a reason the US government is so reliant

10
00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:33,560
Speaker 5: on him.

11
00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:36,400
Speaker 4: Alon Musk is a scam artist and he's done nothing.

12
00:00:36,479 --> 00:00:40,680
Speaker 6: Anything he does, he's fascinating people.

13
00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:53,520
Speaker 2: Welcome to Elon Ink, Bloomberg's weekly podcast about Elon Musk.

14
00:00:53,560 --> 00:00:56,880
Speaker 2: It's Tuesday, July thirtieth. I'm your host, Max Chapkin, filling

15
00:00:56,960 --> 00:01:02,400
Speaker 2: in for David Popadopolis. We've had another crazy newsweek here

16
00:01:02,840 --> 00:01:05,720
Speaker 2: in the world and in elon Land, nowhere near as

17
00:01:05,760 --> 00:01:08,800
Speaker 2: much as in Elon Musk's own X feed. In the

18
00:01:08,800 --> 00:01:11,639
Speaker 2: space of a few days, He's made headlines by sharing

19
00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:15,720
Speaker 2: a doctored video of Kamala Harris, the presumptive Democratic nominee,

20
00:01:15,959 --> 00:01:21,480
Speaker 2: doing some mild vaccine skepticism. Colin Harris, an extinctionist, engaging

21
00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:24,720
Speaker 2: in a little light feuding with California Governor Gavin newsom

22
00:01:25,319 --> 00:01:29,679
Speaker 2: what is behind this crazy blitz of all over there tweets?

23
00:01:29,880 --> 00:01:32,120
Speaker 2: Does it matter to discuss this? We're going to be

24
00:01:32,200 --> 00:01:36,160
Speaker 2: joined by Sarah Fryar, who runs big tech coverage for Bloomberg,

25
00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:38,840
Speaker 2: and Kurt Wagner, Bloomberg social media reporter.

26
00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:40,720
Speaker 5: Sarah Kurt, thanks for coming to.

27
00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:42,760
Speaker 7: Elon Ink, Thank you for having us him.

28
00:01:42,600 --> 00:01:47,000
Speaker 2: Max, And later we'll share another conversation as part of

29
00:01:47,080 --> 00:01:51,480
Speaker 2: our one on one series of summer chats. Today's is

30
00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:56,160
Speaker 2: between Bloomberg's Elon Musk reporter Dana Hull and Mike Isaac,

31
00:01:56,160 --> 00:01:58,040
Speaker 2: who is a tech reporter at the New York Times,

32
00:01:58,280 --> 00:02:00,720
Speaker 2: and they're going to be talking about El's move from

33
00:02:00,720 --> 00:02:04,400
Speaker 2: California to Texas and the complicated relationship he has with

34
00:02:04,480 --> 00:02:05,320
Speaker 2: his former state.

35
00:02:05,880 --> 00:02:08,280
Speaker 5: Okay, where to start? Why don't we just tell me

36
00:02:08,320 --> 00:02:10,480
Speaker 5: what happened the last few days on X Kurt?

37
00:02:10,680 --> 00:02:13,960
Speaker 3: Sure, well, you kind of highlighted some of the stuff,

38
00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:18,000
Speaker 3: but it's basically been a stream of consciousness from Elon

39
00:02:18,160 --> 00:02:20,760
Speaker 3: to his you know, nearly two hundred million followers.

40
00:02:20,840 --> 00:02:21,040
Speaker 4: Right.

41
00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:23,000
Speaker 3: The big thing, as you pointed out, was this deep

42
00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:26,880
Speaker 3: fake video of Kamala Harris, who's now running against Donald Trump,

43
00:02:26,919 --> 00:02:30,800
Speaker 3: who Obviously, Elon has endorsed Who's Who, he's donated money to.

44
00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:36,880
Speaker 3: X has policies against sharing you know, manipulated media, synthetic media,

45
00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:40,040
Speaker 3: stuff that can be misleading, and yet here he is

46
00:02:40,240 --> 00:02:42,639
Speaker 3: not only sharing it, it hasn't been flagged in the

47
00:02:42,680 --> 00:02:45,120
Speaker 3: way that the policy claims it should be flagged. And

48
00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:48,360
Speaker 3: you know, as we've talked about on this podcast for

49
00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:51,880
Speaker 3: months now, sort of just continued to push into this

50
00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:55,240
Speaker 3: move toward the political right and using his you know,

51
00:02:55,320 --> 00:03:01,080
Speaker 3: position atop this very very public, publiclyfacing company to you know,

52
00:03:01,680 --> 00:03:06,839
Speaker 3: beat certain narratives and storylines into existence. And so we've

53
00:03:06,880 --> 00:03:09,519
Speaker 3: seen that time and again over the last several days.

54
00:03:09,639 --> 00:03:11,519
Speaker 2: But just to set some context, I'm just gonna play

55
00:03:11,520 --> 00:03:14,040
Speaker 2: a quick snip of this video just just so people

56
00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:15,200
Speaker 2: have a sense of what it sounds like.

57
00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:18,880
Speaker 8: I Kamala Harris and your Democrat candidate for president, because

58
00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:21,840
Speaker 8: Joe Biden finally exposed to sinility in debate.

59
00:03:22,040 --> 00:03:22,800
Speaker 4: Thanks Joe.

60
00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:25,720
Speaker 8: I was selected because I am the ultimate diversity hire.

61
00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:28,280
Speaker 8: I'm both a woman and a person of color. So

62
00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:31,840
Speaker 8: if you've criticized anything I say, you're both sexist and racist.

63
00:03:32,280 --> 00:03:34,720
Speaker 8: I may not know the first thing about running the country.

64
00:03:34,720 --> 00:03:36,720
Speaker 8: But remember that's a good thing.

65
00:03:36,920 --> 00:03:39,960
Speaker 2: So what you hear in this video is it looks

66
00:03:39,960 --> 00:03:43,640
Speaker 2: like a Kamala Harris campaign ad. It actually it includes

67
00:03:43,640 --> 00:03:46,680
Speaker 2: many of the shots from her ad, but then it

68
00:03:46,760 --> 00:03:49,360
Speaker 2: has these kind of like over the top lines. Joe

69
00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:52,720
Speaker 2: Biden exposed his sinility in the debate. Joe taught me

70
00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:56,280
Speaker 2: rule number one, carefully hide your total incompetence. Sarah, this

71
00:03:56,520 --> 00:03:59,440
Speaker 2: is obviously a parody, right or is it somewhere in

72
00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:02,000
Speaker 2: between A already like, I don't like, I'm not told.

73
00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:04,280
Speaker 5: I understand that there's there's something troubling here.

74
00:04:04,320 --> 00:04:07,160
Speaker 7: But that's the Musk argument is that it's a parody.

75
00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:10,040
Speaker 9: But last time I TechEd, he took the parody label

76
00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:12,720
Speaker 9: off of it, and all of the tech companies have

77
00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:16,760
Speaker 9: committed to labeling their deep fakes otherwise they could be

78
00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:20,640
Speaker 9: in violation of federal election laws. And so, as Kurt said,

79
00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:23,159
Speaker 9: it goes against the policies. But I think the humor

80
00:04:23,200 --> 00:04:24,839
Speaker 9: defense is one we're going to see more and more.

81
00:04:24,839 --> 00:04:28,520
Speaker 9: If something makes Musk laugh, then he's going to allow it,

82
00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:32,840
Speaker 9: And if something makes Musk mad, he's going to ban it.

83
00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:34,240
Speaker 7: What's going to happen.

84
00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:38,640
Speaker 9: Now is every single thing that Musk does in favor

85
00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:40,400
Speaker 9: of Trump, people are going to say he's putting his

86
00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:43,120
Speaker 9: finger on the scale. Every single thing he does that

87
00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:46,080
Speaker 9: seems to hurt Kamala, whether it's warranted or not, people

88
00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:46,680
Speaker 9: are going to say.

89
00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:48,120
Speaker 7: He's putting his fingers on the scale.

90
00:04:48,520 --> 00:04:52,360
Speaker 9: And whatever happens in this election, whoever wins, people are

91
00:04:52,360 --> 00:04:57,039
Speaker 9: going to blame or credit Elon Musk for having some

92
00:04:57,279 --> 00:04:59,880
Speaker 9: part in it. So I think he's playing a dan

93
00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:05,600
Speaker 9: game because that is going to really affect his business interests,

94
00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:09,520
Speaker 9: his public liability, which he seems to care about his alliances.

95
00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:12,479
Speaker 2: So wait, just Kurt, just a backup. You talked about

96
00:05:12,640 --> 00:05:14,719
Speaker 2: you and Sarah both brought up terms of service. I

97
00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:16,600
Speaker 2: mean they're also like legal.

98
00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:18,599
Speaker 5: Questions here, even about a post like this.

99
00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:22,360
Speaker 2: What is the what exactly is the violation here? It's

100
00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:25,599
Speaker 2: like it's like an election interference thing or what's going

101
00:05:25,640 --> 00:05:26,120
Speaker 2: on here.

102
00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:29,279
Speaker 3: Well, I'll speak more to the terms of service, just

103
00:05:29,279 --> 00:05:31,960
Speaker 3: because I know those better than I understand maybe the

104
00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:34,919
Speaker 3: law around sharing something like this. But there is a

105
00:05:35,120 --> 00:05:39,880
Speaker 3: manipulated media policy misleading media, and I pulled it up

106
00:05:39,880 --> 00:05:42,200
Speaker 3: actually so I can read it to you, and you

107
00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:45,320
Speaker 3: know it says that anything that violates his policy will

108
00:05:45,320 --> 00:05:48,720
Speaker 3: either be labeled or removed if it significantly and deceptively

109
00:05:48,760 --> 00:05:53,479
Speaker 3: alters or manipulates or fabricates a video or post right.

110
00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:55,760
Speaker 3: And so I'm looking at the post right now has

111
00:05:55,760 --> 00:05:58,480
Speaker 3: one hundred and thirty two million views. There's no label

112
00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:02,000
Speaker 3: that I can see. Elon obviously shared it directly, and

113
00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:05,039
Speaker 3: you would think, at the very least, given the environment

114
00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:07,479
Speaker 3: we're in, a responsible thing to do would at least

115
00:06:07,480 --> 00:06:09,760
Speaker 3: be to label it. Right, Maybe it is parody. You

116
00:06:09,760 --> 00:06:12,320
Speaker 3: don't have to take it down. It's funny. Some people

117
00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:15,560
Speaker 3: will find it very funny. But to not label it

118
00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:18,160
Speaker 3: at all, I think AI is getting good enough that

119
00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:21,920
Speaker 3: we're hovering in this territory where people don't know immediately

120
00:06:21,960 --> 00:06:24,080
Speaker 3: whether it's true or not. They watch it and they say, oh,

121
00:06:24,520 --> 00:06:27,360
Speaker 3: did she say this stuff or not? And the mere

122
00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:31,160
Speaker 3: fact that people can't say with definitive clarity right off

123
00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:32,960
Speaker 3: the bat, I think is a sign that this is

124
00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:35,320
Speaker 3: something that's been manipulated to deceive people.

125
00:06:35,720 --> 00:06:37,760
Speaker 9: One thing that might be even more dangerous than this.

126
00:06:39,320 --> 00:06:42,599
Speaker 9: You know, I'm not quite sure if this manipulated media

127
00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:46,520
Speaker 9: is a deep fake or not. That question it's that

128
00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:50,760
Speaker 9: if something real happens, say one of these candidates actually

129
00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:53,920
Speaker 9: winning the election, people are going to look at that

130
00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:57,040
Speaker 9: content too and say, oh.

131
00:06:56,800 --> 00:06:59,480
Speaker 7: That must be fake, that must be a lie as well.

132
00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:01,400
Speaker 7: So it's not just.

133
00:07:01,520 --> 00:07:01,919
Speaker 1: That the.

134
00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:05,760
Speaker 9: You know, fun and games on the internet are getting

135
00:07:05,760 --> 00:07:07,960
Speaker 9: out of hand. Is that the fun and games on

136
00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:11,640
Speaker 9: the internet can color the way people perceive real facts,

137
00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:13,800
Speaker 9: real events. And we already saw that with the Trump

138
00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:15,320
Speaker 9: assassination attempt.

139
00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:19,360
Speaker 2: Just for the record, mister Reagan USA, the guy who originally,

140
00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:22,760
Speaker 2: as I understand, created this video or assembled this video.

141
00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:25,560
Speaker 2: In his message, he wrote Kamala Harris campaign ad and

142
00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:29,200
Speaker 2: then in all caps parody Elon did the laughing while

143
00:07:29,560 --> 00:07:32,560
Speaker 2: crying emoji and said this is amazing. So again it

144
00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:34,800
Speaker 2: shows you just how like how easy it is for

145
00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:38,280
Speaker 2: like the context to sort of fall away, and then

146
00:07:38,680 --> 00:07:40,960
Speaker 2: you know, they're one hundred and thirty two million views,

147
00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:43,679
Speaker 2: and like, you know, we see this over and over again,

148
00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:46,400
Speaker 2: both with like AI stuff and with.

149
00:07:46,400 --> 00:07:49,200
Speaker 5: Just general weird memes and jokes.

150
00:07:48,880 --> 00:07:52,120
Speaker 2: That many people take seriously, do we think that this

151
00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:54,720
Speaker 2: is going to be like the AI election in the

152
00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:57,840
Speaker 2: same way, Sarah that that you know twenty sixteen was

153
00:07:57,880 --> 00:07:59,880
Speaker 2: like the Facebook Russia misinformational.

154
00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:02,280
Speaker 5: Is that what we're sort of heading towards.

155
00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:05,600
Speaker 9: Well, I think that's actually a bigger factor in this election,

156
00:08:05,640 --> 00:08:09,000
Speaker 9: which is the way the platforms are designed to surface

157
00:08:09,080 --> 00:08:13,440
Speaker 9: content that piques people's interests rather than surfacing content from

158
00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:16,960
Speaker 9: their friends and family. So one thing that made misinformation

159
00:08:17,160 --> 00:08:18,880
Speaker 9: from Russia so powerful in the twenty.

160
00:08:18,760 --> 00:08:21,400
Speaker 7: Sixteen election is because it was being shared by people.

161
00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:26,240
Speaker 9: You know, your crazy uncle, your friend from high school,

162
00:08:26,520 --> 00:08:27,480
Speaker 9: people that you know.

163
00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:28,080
Speaker 7: You think like.

164
00:08:29,960 --> 00:08:32,120
Speaker 9: This person might know something that I don't and I

165
00:08:32,160 --> 00:08:35,720
Speaker 9: trust them. And this is different. This is an era

166
00:08:35,840 --> 00:08:39,360
Speaker 9: where all of the social platforms have decided that your

167
00:08:39,360 --> 00:08:42,520
Speaker 9: friends and family aren't creating enough content to be entertaining,

168
00:08:42,960 --> 00:08:46,240
Speaker 9: and in order to boost engagement, they are instead putting

169
00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:50,640
Speaker 9: the weight on that which you will view based on

170
00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:54,640
Speaker 9: your interests. So that's created this game on the Internet

171
00:08:54,720 --> 00:08:58,240
Speaker 9: of let me just do whatever content will surface to

172
00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:01,880
Speaker 9: the top, will win TikTok to win it ex'es algorithm,

173
00:09:02,320 --> 00:09:04,160
Speaker 9: And that's what we're seeing in this election. So this

174
00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:07,800
Speaker 9: is this is the popularity contest for memes election.

175
00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:09,640
Speaker 7: Everything is being memified.

176
00:09:09,920 --> 00:09:12,760
Speaker 2: So there are moments when you know, as we all do,

177
00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:15,920
Speaker 2: we all follow elon Musk's posts on on x you

178
00:09:15,920 --> 00:09:18,000
Speaker 2: know closely where you just see him kind of going

179
00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:20,200
Speaker 2: on tilt. And I mean that the last few days,

180
00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:24,480
Speaker 2: this Harris thing happened amid you know, basically a swirl

181
00:09:24,720 --> 00:09:27,920
Speaker 2: of just like crazy stuff just to I hit some

182
00:09:27,960 --> 00:09:30,120
Speaker 2: of these at the top. I mean, he's he's gone

183
00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:32,720
Speaker 2: on and on and on about Google. It feels like

184
00:09:32,720 --> 00:09:36,800
Speaker 2: a dozen tweets about suggesting that Google is covering up

185
00:09:36,920 --> 00:09:40,240
Speaker 2: the assassination attempt of Donald Trump, which I don't think

186
00:09:40,360 --> 00:09:44,080
Speaker 2: is true. He's accused Meta of covering up that assassination tempt.

187
00:09:44,200 --> 00:09:47,040
Speaker 2: He's been doing anti vax memes. Last night he was

188
00:09:47,080 --> 00:09:50,120
Speaker 2: beefing with the Pope. He he was going after his holiness.

189
00:09:50,400 --> 00:09:52,719
Speaker 5: Guys, what the what is going on?

190
00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:57,040
Speaker 9: I don't know how he's he's got any time left

191
00:09:57,280 --> 00:10:00,440
Speaker 9: to run his companies, and I'm sure that that's what

192
00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:02,839
Speaker 9: a lot of a lot of the people who work

193
00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:05,199
Speaker 9: with him are thinking. I mean, he must just spend

194
00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:10,560
Speaker 9: his waking hours glued to his phone and like completely distracted.

195
00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:13,200
Speaker 3: I can't speak to what's literally going on in his

196
00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:16,080
Speaker 3: personal life over the past week. But Max, we've seen

197
00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:20,640
Speaker 3: this kind of spiral on Twitter before, right, and Oftentimes

198
00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:25,800
Speaker 3: it's associated with late nights. He drinks energy drinks. There's

199
00:10:25,800 --> 00:10:28,800
Speaker 3: been reports obviously of him delving into other substances. I

200
00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:32,280
Speaker 3: think it's also a social thing, right. I imagine he posts something,

201
00:10:32,600 --> 00:10:36,120
Speaker 3: he starts to see that feedback from his base of fans.

202
00:10:36,200 --> 00:10:38,800
Speaker 3: Maybe his friends are texting him, right, So my guess

203
00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:40,560
Speaker 3: is with this kind of thing, first of all, he

204
00:10:40,640 --> 00:10:43,440
Speaker 3: realizes it's a huge moment, right, Biden steps down, Harris

205
00:10:43,440 --> 00:10:46,559
Speaker 3: steps in, He's out. He's now publicly out for Trump.

206
00:10:46,840 --> 00:10:49,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, time to strike the iron's hot, get the

207
00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:50,400
Speaker 2: memes out.

208
00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:53,520
Speaker 3: He's an attention guy. He's running a platform that's driven

209
00:10:53,520 --> 00:10:56,160
Speaker 3: by attention. So I'm sure part of this is calculated

210
00:10:56,200 --> 00:10:56,920
Speaker 3: business decision.

211
00:10:56,960 --> 00:10:57,080
Speaker 4: Right.

212
00:10:57,080 --> 00:10:59,360
Speaker 3: The more he's posting about this crazy stuff, the more

213
00:10:59,520 --> 00:11:02,160
Speaker 3: it draws attention to X and the things that he

214
00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:06,439
Speaker 3: cares about. But I also just think we we don't know,

215
00:11:06,559 --> 00:11:10,360
Speaker 3: but we can say that historically these types of moments

216
00:11:10,360 --> 00:11:12,520
Speaker 3: for him had been driven by things happening behind the

217
00:11:12,559 --> 00:11:14,160
Speaker 3: scenes in his personal life as well.

218
00:11:14,280 --> 00:11:14,439
Speaker 6: Well.

219
00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:17,560
Speaker 9: He also maybe trying to change the subject from something

220
00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:20,160
Speaker 9: that happened very in the open in his personal life.

221
00:11:20,800 --> 00:11:24,160
Speaker 9: Just a couple of weeks ago, he gave an interview

222
00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:28,760
Speaker 9: with Jordan Peterson, who's a sort of figure that is

223
00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:31,400
Speaker 9: closely followed by men on the.

224
00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:36,600
Speaker 2: Internet's right, Scott, Yeah, yeah, he's he's all about masculinity,

225
00:11:36,679 --> 00:11:37,560
Speaker 2: that Jordan Peterson.

226
00:11:37,640 --> 00:11:41,200
Speaker 9: He went on with Jordan Peterson and dead named his

227
00:11:41,920 --> 00:11:45,280
Speaker 9: child who is now an adult, and dead name is

228
00:11:45,280 --> 00:11:48,440
Speaker 9: when you someone has transgender and called them by their

229
00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:52,120
Speaker 9: their former name, essentially said that they are dead. To me,

230
00:11:52,760 --> 00:11:55,880
Speaker 9: that was a really sad moment on the Internet, and

231
00:11:55,960 --> 00:11:58,719
Speaker 9: he did get a lot of sympathy from you know,

232
00:11:58,760 --> 00:12:02,200
Speaker 9: people who have similar used him on x But then

233
00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:07,960
Speaker 9: his kid on Threads, the Rebel platform came out with

234
00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:11,400
Speaker 9: a thread. Vivian came up with a thread of how

235
00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:15,240
Speaker 9: she felt that he was a absent father and had

236
00:12:15,280 --> 00:12:18,200
Speaker 9: no inkling of you know, what it was like to

237
00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:20,319
Speaker 9: go through life being her, and.

238
00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:23,640
Speaker 2: It was, you know, pretty pretty brutal, not just calling

239
00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:29,400
Speaker 2: two Musk's obvious like transphobia, but his just the weird

240
00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:31,840
Speaker 2: way that he's used his children and continues to use

241
00:12:31,880 --> 00:12:34,760
Speaker 2: these his children as like totems, and I mean, it

242
00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:37,439
Speaker 2: just it just was very it was brutal.

243
00:12:37,559 --> 00:12:39,920
Speaker 5: She owned him on Threads. I just want to.

244
00:12:39,960 --> 00:12:43,079
Speaker 2: Hit one more thing on X Quickly, which was this

245
00:12:43,400 --> 00:12:47,800
Speaker 2: profile really honestly a delightful profile of Linda Yakarino, one

246
00:12:47,840 --> 00:12:50,280
Speaker 2: of our favorites, not a friend of the pod, but

247
00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:53,439
Speaker 2: in my imagination, a friend of the pod, who is

248
00:12:53,840 --> 00:12:57,720
Speaker 2: having a you know, obviously a very difficult time managing

249
00:12:57,800 --> 00:13:00,240
Speaker 2: Elon Musk managing X. You know, it seems like she

250
00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:04,160
Speaker 2: came into this situation thinking like she had a really

251
00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:06,560
Speaker 2: cool media job, this is like one of the biggest

252
00:13:06,640 --> 00:13:10,880
Speaker 2: social media properties, and her boss like just continues unnermindor yeah.

253
00:13:10,880 --> 00:13:15,200
Speaker 3: I mean I've read that story and thought of all

254
00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:19,079
Speaker 3: the conversations we've had on this very podcast right about

255
00:13:19,600 --> 00:13:22,760
Speaker 3: like what is her job? Her job is to try

256
00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:26,120
Speaker 3: to build Ex's business in the face of a CEO

257
00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:30,240
Speaker 3: or an owner excuse me, who's like actively working against her, right,

258
00:13:30,280 --> 00:13:32,520
Speaker 3: And I think that that was the ultimate sort of

259
00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:35,560
Speaker 3: theme of this story, which is like she goes out

260
00:13:35,559 --> 00:13:38,440
Speaker 3: and tries to land a great content deal. Elon comes

261
00:13:38,480 --> 00:13:41,080
Speaker 3: behind her and dismantles it. She goes out and tries

262
00:13:41,160 --> 00:13:44,160
Speaker 3: to tell advertisers, hey, we're a safe space to spend money.

263
00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:47,480
Speaker 3: Elon comes out and immediately does something that feels unsafe, right,

264
00:13:47,559 --> 00:13:51,200
Speaker 3: and so I think the shocking thing to me was

265
00:13:51,240 --> 00:13:53,200
Speaker 3: that you get to the end of the story and

266
00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:56,480
Speaker 3: you think, like, how many punches can this person take

267
00:13:56,640 --> 00:14:00,800
Speaker 3: before they finally say, Wow, this job stinks, Sarah.

268
00:14:00,800 --> 00:14:02,880
Speaker 5: How long does Linda have at X?

269
00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:06,200
Speaker 9: What did we say when she started? We predicted like

270
00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:11,240
Speaker 9: six weeks? And that was the pattern. He was firing

271
00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:16,040
Speaker 9: people left and right. She was opportunistic, but she still

272
00:14:16,120 --> 00:14:19,520
Speaker 9: had a chance in those early days of the job.

273
00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:24,360
Speaker 9: She could have said, Hey, this is beyond what I

274
00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:27,640
Speaker 9: signed up for. Elon did this thing that finally crossed

275
00:14:27,640 --> 00:14:29,160
Speaker 9: my line? I'm out of here?

276
00:14:29,240 --> 00:14:30,640
Speaker 7: And she didn't do that. She's here.

277
00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:34,359
Speaker 9: Maybe I'll go with the prediction that she gave herself,

278
00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:37,760
Speaker 9: which was nine years. Oh my gosh, didn't she say

279
00:14:37,880 --> 00:14:38,760
Speaker 9: nine years?

280
00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:39,760
Speaker 2: Kurt?

281
00:14:39,880 --> 00:14:40,320
Speaker 4: Or what do you?

282
00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:41,760
Speaker 5: What do you got here? What's your bet?

283
00:14:41,840 --> 00:14:41,920
Speaker 2: Well?

284
00:14:42,560 --> 00:14:44,920
Speaker 3: I hope I'm far off this beat in the next

285
00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:46,800
Speaker 3: nine years. That's what I got to say. If I'm

286
00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:49,480
Speaker 3: writing about Linda leaving nine years from now, then somebody

287
00:14:49,520 --> 00:14:51,680
Speaker 3: come get me. Look, I think I said less than

288
00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:53,520
Speaker 3: a year. I don't know if I said it publicly.

289
00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:55,760
Speaker 3: I certainly thought less than a year. We've now crossed

290
00:14:55,760 --> 00:14:58,120
Speaker 3: that threshold, and to the point I just made, she

291
00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:01,280
Speaker 3: seems to still be going strong and not only supporting Elon,

292
00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:02,880
Speaker 3: but like getting rid of other allies.

293
00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:03,160
Speaker 1: Right.

294
00:15:03,200 --> 00:15:05,800
Speaker 3: She fired Joe Bennerroch, who was like her right hand

295
00:15:05,880 --> 00:15:08,680
Speaker 3: man just a month ago or so, someone she brought

296
00:15:08,720 --> 00:15:11,040
Speaker 3: over from NBC with her, and it sort of felt like, Okay,

297
00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:13,600
Speaker 3: she clearly picked her side here, right, she took the

298
00:15:13,640 --> 00:15:16,520
Speaker 3: side of Elon over this person who's defended her both

299
00:15:16,520 --> 00:15:19,960
Speaker 3: privately and publicly for years. And so I'll give her,

300
00:15:20,120 --> 00:15:22,200
Speaker 3: I don't know, you know, I'll give her another year

301
00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:25,240
Speaker 3: at this point because clearly she's like, what has she

302
00:15:25,720 --> 00:15:27,560
Speaker 3: not been able to endure? Like, I don't know, the

303
00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:30,800
Speaker 3: election could be quite a challenging and trying kind of

304
00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:34,320
Speaker 3: process for everybody. But we'll see how they get through that.

305
00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:38,880
Speaker 3: If she makes it through the election, gosh, sure nine years, Sarah,

306
00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:41,520
Speaker 3: you have fun writing that story when she eventually leaves.

307
00:15:42,040 --> 00:15:43,440
Speaker 5: All right, let's leave it there.

308
00:15:43,560 --> 00:15:45,760
Speaker 2: I will let Kurt and Sarah get back to the

309
00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:49,120
Speaker 2: Meme Playground and we will move on to our interview

310
00:15:49,160 --> 00:15:51,800
Speaker 2: with Mike, Isaac. Kurt, Sarah, thank you so much for

311
00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:52,240
Speaker 2: being here.

312
00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:54,000
Speaker 7: Yep, thanks Max, thanks for having.

313
00:15:53,880 --> 00:16:02,680
Speaker 2: Us Okay, now we are going to California. This is

314
00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:05,600
Speaker 2: the state, of course, where Elon Musk made his first

315
00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:08,240
Speaker 2: fortune and where he became an icon, kind of a

316
00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:12,920
Speaker 2: mascot for Silicon Valley genius. California made Elon in some sense,

317
00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:15,600
Speaker 2: but he also hates the place, or at least seems

318
00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:17,560
Speaker 2: to hate the place. And of course, in twenty twenty,

319
00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:21,080
Speaker 2: he moved himself with you know, with great fanfare, to Texas.

320
00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:24,000
Speaker 2: There are a bunch of conflicting emotions going on here

321
00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:28,960
Speaker 2: with Elon's relationship with his former state. You've got politics, policy, money,

322
00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:31,440
Speaker 2: kind of vibes well where he feels like he fits

323
00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:33,440
Speaker 2: in and explore all that, We've got one of our

324
00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:36,680
Speaker 2: favorite tech reporters, Mike Isaac of the New York Times,

325
00:16:36,840 --> 00:16:41,800
Speaker 2: who is an expert in extremely controversial CEOs. Mike wrote

326
00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:44,800
Speaker 2: a book on Uber's Travis Kalinick. It's called Super Pump.

327
00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:48,840
Speaker 2: Also was adapted into a Showtime series. He sat down

328
00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:51,600
Speaker 2: with our own Dana Hall earlier this month. This was

329
00:16:51,640 --> 00:16:54,280
Speaker 2: before I have to say Elon declared that he was

330
00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:58,840
Speaker 2: moving one of his businesses from California to Texas in

331
00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:03,280
Speaker 2: response to a law protecting transgender kids. They had a

332
00:17:03,320 --> 00:17:06,080
Speaker 2: really great conversation about Elon's place in Silicon Valley and

333
00:17:06,359 --> 00:17:10,480
Speaker 2: let's just say the unusual things that CEOs sometimes.

334
00:17:10,119 --> 00:17:12,800
Speaker 5: Say to their employees. Here's that conversation.

335
00:17:14,800 --> 00:17:17,920
Speaker 4: Welcome to the show, Mike, Thank you, thanks for having me.

336
00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:21,919
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you've covered Silicon Valley and its personalities for

337
00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:25,439
Speaker 1: a long time. When did you first become aware of

338
00:17:25,480 --> 00:17:27,760
Speaker 1: Elon and in what context?

339
00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:29,920
Speaker 4: You know, He's always been sort of in the ether

340
00:17:30,040 --> 00:17:30,280
Speaker 4: for me.

341
00:17:30,440 --> 00:17:33,280
Speaker 6: But I think one of the biggest encounters I had

342
00:17:33,320 --> 00:17:35,800
Speaker 6: with him was at I think it was still called

343
00:17:35,840 --> 00:17:37,240
Speaker 6: the All Things d Conference.

344
00:17:37,560 --> 00:17:39,040
Speaker 4: Elon had come to.

345
00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:42,639
Speaker 6: A few of their conferences, and I believe in twenty

346
00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:44,120
Speaker 6: fourteen he.

347
00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:45,600
Speaker 4: Came to it.

348
00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:49,200
Speaker 6: And it was this interesting time because a few years

349
00:17:49,200 --> 00:17:52,560
Speaker 6: ago Steve Jobs had died. I think folks were looking

350
00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:57,440
Speaker 6: for this next sort of tech scion person to inspire them.

351
00:17:57,520 --> 00:17:59,880
Speaker 6: Jobs was always this sort of big personality who would

352
00:17:59,920 --> 00:18:03,080
Speaker 6: all also go to that stage and do it. I

353
00:18:03,119 --> 00:18:06,560
Speaker 6: remember Elon being on stage and the entire room was

354
00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:09,719
Speaker 6: enraptured by this guy. Right, he has this interesting halting

355
00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:11,919
Speaker 6: way of speaking, but I think this sort of it

356
00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:13,400
Speaker 6: comes off as contemplative.

357
00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:15,360
Speaker 4: And then he would say these crazy.

358
00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:19,200
Speaker 6: Things about Mars or rockets, and everyone in the audience

359
00:18:19,320 --> 00:18:22,280
Speaker 6: was just like hanging on every word. And this one

360
00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:26,679
Speaker 6: tech VC guy, Shervin Pishovar, stands up and he's you

361
00:18:26,760 --> 00:18:30,120
Speaker 6: are basically the air deceive jobs for us, like you're

362
00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:31,320
Speaker 6: the next guy, right.

363
00:18:31,359 --> 00:18:32,920
Speaker 4: He sort of says what I think a lot of

364
00:18:32,920 --> 00:18:34,359
Speaker 4: people were thinking at that point.

365
00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:37,719
Speaker 6: And I had not really paid attention to him like

366
00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:39,760
Speaker 6: he had been in the ether. I'd seen him in

367
00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:42,639
Speaker 6: the Iron Man movie that was the extent of my

368
00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:45,639
Speaker 6: encounters and really caring about him. I knew he had

369
00:18:45,680 --> 00:18:49,399
Speaker 6: some affiliations with PayPal, which are often in dispute or

370
00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:50,919
Speaker 6: talked about, I guess is what I would say. But

371
00:18:51,320 --> 00:18:53,800
Speaker 6: that was when he was really probably put on my radar.

372
00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:56,679
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, that's a really good point, this sort of

373
00:18:56,920 --> 00:19:01,440
Speaker 1: jobs dies Elon rises the while the Modelesque is coming out.

374
00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:03,639
Speaker 1: It was really interesting timing and I think now about

375
00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:06,560
Speaker 1: how much the tech press had a lot to do

376
00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:09,720
Speaker 1: with this narrative of Elon being the new Steve Jobs,

377
00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:13,119
Speaker 1: and it's interesting, Musk is very much a marketer, but

378
00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:15,439
Speaker 1: what do you think about that comparison that he is

379
00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:17,440
Speaker 1: the new Steve or was the new Steve. I don't

380
00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:20,399
Speaker 1: even know where that's if that still holds up. If

381
00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:23,000
Speaker 1: the media was looking for an air apparent, why did

382
00:19:23,040 --> 00:19:25,240
Speaker 1: Elon fill that role? Was it just because of the

383
00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:26,359
Speaker 1: products jobs?

384
00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:28,600
Speaker 4: Was this huge figure who.

385
00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:32,440
Speaker 6: I never met or knew him personally, but came off

386
00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:34,840
Speaker 6: as this sort of dreamer type. Right if you look

387
00:19:34,840 --> 00:19:36,800
Speaker 6: at all the marketing and all of his pitches from

388
00:19:36,840 --> 00:19:38,680
Speaker 6: back then, it was never just technology.

389
00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:41,840
Speaker 4: It was the intersection of technology and liberal arts.

390
00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:42,080
Speaker 1: Right.

391
00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:44,680
Speaker 4: There was tech with a purpose. They wanted to combine

392
00:19:44,680 --> 00:19:44,960
Speaker 4: it with.

393
00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:49,280
Speaker 1: These like calligraphy and cool fonts and all that kind

394
00:19:49,280 --> 00:19:49,719
Speaker 1: of stuff.

395
00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:52,400
Speaker 4: Totally. It was yeah, very artistic.

396
00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:55,120
Speaker 6: It was never it was never just sort of like

397
00:19:55,960 --> 00:19:58,080
Speaker 6: tech for tech's sake, is what I would say. There

398
00:19:58,119 --> 00:20:01,200
Speaker 6: was purpose behind it, and I think was I think

399
00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:03,320
Speaker 6: people like that. I think people felt good about that,

400
00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:08,080
Speaker 6: and him dying left a real vacuum. I think in

401
00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:12,600
Speaker 6: personalities Elon is a showman, but I think also the

402
00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:16,560
Speaker 6: sort of dreamer aspect of him really touches on something

403
00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:20,240
Speaker 6: that I think people like. I think that technologists like,

404
00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:22,800
Speaker 6: and I think that like people who aren't technologists but

405
00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:24,679
Speaker 6: might want to be like that.

406
00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:27,600
Speaker 1: Do you feel like people understand that early history. Like

407
00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:29,280
Speaker 1: if I go to a party and people are like,

408
00:20:29,359 --> 00:20:31,879
Speaker 1: where did Elon must come from, I'm like, well, you know,

409
00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:34,920
Speaker 1: like he was involved in PayPal before that, he did

410
00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:37,119
Speaker 1: X dot com, and now he's come full circle with

411
00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:39,399
Speaker 1: calling this whole thing X. But I still feel like

412
00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:41,439
Speaker 1: if you look at the narrative of his life, like

413
00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:44,480
Speaker 1: those early dot com days when he was here in

414
00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:48,320
Speaker 1: the nineties and supposedly dropped out or didn't actually go

415
00:20:48,359 --> 00:20:51,119
Speaker 1: to Stanford, like that's that early history is still not

416
00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:52,560
Speaker 1: super well known.

417
00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:54,480
Speaker 6: I mean no, I totally agree, And like even as

418
00:20:54,520 --> 00:20:57,320
Speaker 6: I was looking back through a bunch of the history

419
00:20:57,640 --> 00:21:00,320
Speaker 6: before we were talking, and just as I started having

420
00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:02,800
Speaker 6: to think about Elon Moore as he's become a more

421
00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:06,000
Speaker 6: important figure a lot of the things that we write

422
00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:08,280
Speaker 6: about and things that we don't write about, I've had

423
00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:10,199
Speaker 6: to challenge some of the assumptions that I've had. I

424
00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:12,240
Speaker 6: was like, oh, yeah, he created PayPal, and then folks

425
00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:15,040
Speaker 6: would be like, actually, that is not as cut and

426
00:21:15,119 --> 00:21:16,080
Speaker 6: dry as you would think.

427
00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:18,280
Speaker 4: Like there's a bunch of different sort of.

428
00:21:19,359 --> 00:21:22,560
Speaker 6: Backstabbing and cutting out and people claiming credit for X,

429
00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:24,879
Speaker 6: Y and Z all the way back to did he

430
00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:25,679
Speaker 6: go to this college?

431
00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:27,040
Speaker 4: Does he have these degrees?

432
00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:32,159
Speaker 6: But at some point in the public eye, it seems

433
00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:35,400
Speaker 6: to not have mattered anymore. Like he sort of has

434
00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:37,400
Speaker 6: taken credit for a lot.

435
00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:37,919
Speaker 4: Of these things.

436
00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:40,439
Speaker 6: He said them in podcasts, so he's sort of like

437
00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:43,399
Speaker 6: ostensibly saying this is the case. Or even with Tesla,

438
00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:45,760
Speaker 6: you know, which you obviously cover and know very well,

439
00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:49,280
Speaker 6: Like he has this sort of weird battle ongoing with

440
00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:53,639
Speaker 6: one of the guys that co founded it, and like constantly.

441
00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:55,080
Speaker 1: Well they went, there's like a whole lawsuit about who

442
00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:57,680
Speaker 1: was the founder. And now I think the correct way

443
00:21:57,680 --> 00:22:01,320
Speaker 1: to refer to Usk is as the coke contort the founder. Yeah,

444
00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:03,639
Speaker 1: so I wanted to talk a little bit about Musk

445
00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:07,320
Speaker 1: and Los Angeles. We were talking about Elon being this

446
00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:10,200
Speaker 1: creature of Silicon Valley, these early days with x dot

447
00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:13,240
Speaker 1: com and PayPal and the relationships that he formed. But

448
00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:16,399
Speaker 1: Musk moved to LA in two thousand and two to

449
00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:19,640
Speaker 1: form or to start SpaceX, and then for the next

450
00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:22,679
Speaker 1: two decades he basically lived in LA and commuted to

451
00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:25,439
Speaker 1: Silicon Valley during the week to work at Tesla. So

452
00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:28,840
Speaker 1: what do you think about just Los Angeles as a

453
00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:31,919
Speaker 1: place as a cultures and how did it influence Elon

454
00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:33,040
Speaker 1: as a personality.

455
00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:33,880
Speaker 4: Yeah.

456
00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:37,639
Speaker 6: No, So I should preface this with I'm pretty rider

457
00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:41,119
Speaker 6: die San Francisco as far as La versus SF. But

458
00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:44,440
Speaker 6: I do think that for a number of years now,

459
00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:46,160
Speaker 6: there's a few things going on one For a number

460
00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:48,480
Speaker 6: of years now, I do think folks in tech have

461
00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:51,080
Speaker 6: been trying to make La a tech thing, and there

462
00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:54,800
Speaker 6: are a bunch of different tech incubators there. There's tech

463
00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:58,640
Speaker 6: companies that are starting there, there's sort of Hollywood.

464
00:22:58,119 --> 00:23:00,320
Speaker 4: Adjacent companies that are still in tech.

465
00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:04,280
Speaker 6: The creators sort of thing is huge obviously for social

466
00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:07,160
Speaker 6: media companies and the like. Creator houses are down there,

467
00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:09,200
Speaker 6: So it's it is important and it is a real thing.

468
00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:11,600
Speaker 4: I think there's always going.

469
00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:14,879
Speaker 6: To be an SF poll and it does still feel

470
00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:17,359
Speaker 6: like the center of tech in a lot of ways.

471
00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:19,840
Speaker 6: And that's a whole other sort of topic. But I

472
00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:22,359
Speaker 6: but LA has been a thing. It's slowly been bubbling

473
00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:25,160
Speaker 6: up and more folks have been moving down there as

474
00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:30,119
Speaker 6: there have been waves of popularity or waning popularity in

475
00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:33,080
Speaker 6: San Francisco. And being here, I also think the pandemic

476
00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:36,880
Speaker 6: accelerated a lot of this. Folks decided I don't need

477
00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:39,320
Speaker 6: to be here, the idea we can work everywhere anywhere,

478
00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:40,640
Speaker 6: like we can go wherever we want.

479
00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:43,080
Speaker 4: And then of course they're retrenching on that. But like

480
00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:44,760
Speaker 4: LA has been a thing.

481
00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:49,560
Speaker 6: I think Elon and really a lot of tech scions

482
00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:52,560
Speaker 6: a lot of the time, have a desire to want

483
00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:56,280
Speaker 6: to be part of this other thing that is enamoring

484
00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:56,760
Speaker 6: to them.

485
00:23:56,960 --> 00:23:58,600
Speaker 4: And you know, it's funny.

486
00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:02,320
Speaker 6: I knew as CEO, a very famous tex eeo who

487
00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:06,119
Speaker 6: was like at the Oscars one time and just no

488
00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:07,680
Speaker 6: one knew who he was and.

489
00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:08,919
Speaker 4: Felt very out of place.

490
00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:13,280
Speaker 6: And it was like this crazy thing because if you

491
00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:15,359
Speaker 6: saw him on the street up here, everyone would be like,

492
00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:15,880
Speaker 6: oh good.

493
00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:18,359
Speaker 4: You know, it was like an obvious person.

494
00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:21,320
Speaker 6: And I feel like Elon was someone who was not

495
00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:24,159
Speaker 6: that he was actually sort of a celebrity here and

496
00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:27,159
Speaker 6: became a sort of celebrity there, and I think the

497
00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:29,640
Speaker 6: sort of glitz was very attracted to him.

498
00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:33,040
Speaker 4: I also think it did influences thinking of Okay.

499
00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:36,760
Speaker 6: We don't have to have the Bay Area be the

500
00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:39,240
Speaker 6: epicenter of everything, and so like I do think that

501
00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:44,080
Speaker 6: culturally shifts how you approach company building. I also think

502
00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:46,480
Speaker 6: just like being in LA culturally is very different than

503
00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:49,320
Speaker 6: San Francisco. The vibes are different. You have to drive everywhere.

504
00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:51,640
Speaker 6: You're thinking about transportation differently if.

505
00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:54,119
Speaker 1: You're the CEO of like a car company. LA is

506
00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:57,920
Speaker 1: where like the auto industry from a design perspective, totally evolved.

507
00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:00,280
Speaker 1: And I went to the Peterson Museum a couple months

508
00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:03,159
Speaker 1: ago and they were having like all these cyber trucks

509
00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:05,280
Speaker 1: rolled up and it was just like, I don't know,

510
00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:07,760
Speaker 1: I'm not a big car person, I'm a public transit person,

511
00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:10,359
Speaker 1: but it was a reminder that like the auto industry

512
00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:13,639
Speaker 1: in LA are very much intertwined as is aerospace. And

513
00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:15,840
Speaker 1: in the early days of Tesla events, when they would

514
00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:18,879
Speaker 1: actually invite like mainstream financial journalists to their events, they

515
00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:21,240
Speaker 1: always had a red carpet for their at their events,

516
00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:23,840
Speaker 1: so it was like very much like Hollywood. A lot

517
00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:27,760
Speaker 1: of Hollywood celebrities owned Tesla's early on, so he very

518
00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:29,119
Speaker 1: smartly cultivated that.

519
00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:31,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, I agree, and I think you're totally wrecked.

520
00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:34,840
Speaker 6: Just the early status symbol of cyber truck is probably

521
00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:37,399
Speaker 6: not as clean of a narrative now because it's turned

522
00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:37,919
Speaker 6: into sort of.

523
00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:40,280
Speaker 4: An anti status symbol. But I do feel like in

524
00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:41,280
Speaker 4: some ways, but I do.

525
00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:45,040
Speaker 6: Feel like you're exactly right in the like early Tesla

526
00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:49,800
Speaker 6: modelisque status symbol thing was like very much present definitely

527
00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:50,240
Speaker 6: in La.

528
00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:51,760
Speaker 4: I totally yeah.

529
00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:54,280
Speaker 1: So he moved to Texas at twenty twenty. You're from

530
00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:58,360
Speaker 1: Texas originally, I am. Yeah, I grew up in Maryland.

531
00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:00,760
Speaker 1: So my sense of Texas is that they really do

532
00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:03,720
Speaker 1: love him. He's like a wildcatter, like he very much

533
00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:07,879
Speaker 1: fits into their Texas's perception of itself. But Texas has

534
00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:10,400
Speaker 1: obviously changed quite a lot in the last couple of decades.

535
00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:14,280
Speaker 1: Do you see him as being like a Texan now

536
00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:17,400
Speaker 1: for the long haul or talk to me more about

537
00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:20,000
Speaker 1: Texas growing up there, What it's like when you go back,

538
00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:22,399
Speaker 1: How you see Elon fitting into the tech scene there.

539
00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:26,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, well I can definitely. So what it's like for

540
00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:28,640
Speaker 4: me is eating a lot of Fijidas when I go back.

541
00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:31,560
Speaker 6: But I do think it's a very there are different

542
00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:34,680
Speaker 6: sort of things that I think sync up with each other.

543
00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:37,520
Speaker 6: I will say I grew up in Fort Worth. He

544
00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:41,040
Speaker 6: went he absconded to Austin, which is its own thing.

545
00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:43,119
Speaker 6: I think a lot of Texans also see Austin is

546
00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:45,800
Speaker 6: very different than the rest of Texas. Some folks call

547
00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:48,000
Speaker 6: it like an island within Texas as far as a

548
00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:50,840
Speaker 6: liberal bastion. But I do think that some of his

549
00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:55,719
Speaker 6: later political beliefs tend to jibe with Texans, you know.

550
00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:59,320
Speaker 6: I think he's obviously leaned heavily into the immigration sort

551
00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:02,160
Speaker 6: of stuff, TI immigration stuff, I should say, and that

552
00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:04,680
Speaker 6: has been like a political hot button for a.

553
00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:07,000
Speaker 4: Lot of folks in Texas. But I also think that

554
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:08,440
Speaker 4: his even.

555
00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:11,560
Speaker 6: On a more basic level, his grandiosity and his sort

556
00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:14,760
Speaker 6: of larger than life presence I think resonates with a

557
00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:15,960
Speaker 6: lot of folks in Texas.

558
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:18,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think it makes sense that SpaceX is there.

559
00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:21,440
Speaker 1: I mean, NASA's based in Houston, and if you're gonna

560
00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:24,280
Speaker 1: colonize Mars, you need to be close to NASA in

561
00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:27,360
Speaker 1: order to do your rocket project. And so yeah, he's

562
00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:28,800
Speaker 1: got I mean, he's got a lot, He's got Austin,

563
00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:35,919
Speaker 1: he's got bo He's in Texas quite a bit. But

564
00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:40,200
Speaker 1: now the AI industry is basically headquartered in San Francisco

565
00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:42,840
Speaker 1: and in London. So do you ever see a scenario

566
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:46,840
Speaker 1: where a musk has to move, like moves back to California.

567
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:49,280
Speaker 1: I mean, he probably won't because of tax his own

568
00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:53,320
Speaker 1: personal wealth and tax reasons. But now we're in an

569
00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:56,359
Speaker 1: interesting scenario where if the future is AI, the AI

570
00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:58,639
Speaker 1: is here. I mean, that's what San Francisco is riding on.

571
00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:00,879
Speaker 4: It's funny.

572
00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:03,800
Speaker 6: I was thinking about his reasons for leaving and the

573
00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:06,240
Speaker 6: reasons for coming back, and like, I do think that,

574
00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:09,439
Speaker 6: like I do think there was something real. There were

575
00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:11,200
Speaker 6: a few things in the beginning of Like there was

576
00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:13,679
Speaker 6: the tax burdens stuff that you know, you guys had

577
00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:16,080
Speaker 6: wrote about, you know, like that like not having a

578
00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:20,520
Speaker 6: permanent residence anywhere, but in California specifically freedom of what

579
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:23,520
Speaker 6: hundreds of millions of dollars in tax burdens I believe, Yeah, so.

580
00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:23,960
Speaker 4: That was real.

581
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:26,600
Speaker 6: But I also think there were vibes of everyone was

582
00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:29,199
Speaker 6: just kind of getting out. Miami and Austin were like

583
00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:32,680
Speaker 6: two places that everyone was Like by everyone, I mean

584
00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:36,400
Speaker 6: like a very specific portion of tech people.

585
00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:37,719
Speaker 4: Who were like, I need to get out of here.

586
00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:40,040
Speaker 6: I need to go find something fun and like sort

587
00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:42,760
Speaker 6: of right leaning or libertarian tech people specifically, I think

588
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:44,719
Speaker 6: wanted to go to those other places because they had

589
00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:48,120
Speaker 6: their own vibes on what San Francisco was becoming four

590
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:51,880
Speaker 6: years later, people are coming back, like to exactly what

591
00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:55,239
Speaker 6: you said, AI is, whether you like it or not.

592
00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:58,320
Speaker 6: The epicenter of it really in a talent way is

593
00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:02,280
Speaker 6: here and in London, and then in Canada as far

594
00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:06,520
Speaker 6: as the feeder schools there, yeah, Toronto, but there's Open Eyes,

595
00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:09,040
Speaker 6: the ep Center, and then a bunch of startups that

596
00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:12,360
Speaker 6: have cropped up around it that are all AI focused

597
00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:16,440
Speaker 6: are there and it's becoming a real talent center.

598
00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:19,719
Speaker 4: And look I think that yeah, like at a very

599
00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:20,520
Speaker 4: specific place.

600
00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:25,600
Speaker 6: And that coupled with bosses of big companies which are

601
00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:29,040
Speaker 6: very invested in AI, whether it's Meta or Google or

602
00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:35,520
Speaker 6: Apple now or in salesforce like whoever, are demanding, not

603
00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:39,080
Speaker 6: even asking, demanding like return to offices.

604
00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:42,480
Speaker 4: For three to four day week minimum sort of thing. Right, So.

605
00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:46,600
Speaker 6: Yeah, I know right this, You see me in my

606
00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:48,120
Speaker 6: cave here which I never leave.

607
00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:51,360
Speaker 4: But I think it's the I think this is the.

608
00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:56,000
Speaker 6: Draw that is not only going to bring him back,

609
00:29:56,400 --> 00:30:00,240
Speaker 6: but others realize that you can't as much which as

610
00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:02,880
Speaker 6: they might want, you can escape the Bay Area for

611
00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:06,960
Speaker 6: a lot of the premium talent that they want, especially

612
00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:11,640
Speaker 6: in this very specialized field of AI where crazy salaries

613
00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:15,120
Speaker 6: are being commanded by folks who work on machine learning

614
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:18,440
Speaker 6: or in computer vision that you can't you can't always

615
00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:20,240
Speaker 6: find in many other.

616
00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:21,000
Speaker 4: Places in the world.

617
00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:25,640
Speaker 1: So I could talk to you for hours. But now

618
00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:28,120
Speaker 1: we're going to move on to our last segment, which

619
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:30,800
Speaker 1: is a fun game that we invented for you, where

620
00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:33,800
Speaker 1: we're calling it Know your Innovator, And I'm going to

621
00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:35,440
Speaker 1: read you a quote and you have to tell our

622
00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:38,720
Speaker 1: listeners is this a Travis Calenic quote or an Elon

623
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:39,400
Speaker 1: Musk quote?

624
00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:42,800
Speaker 4: Oh my god, that's so good. Okay, I love it.

625
00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:43,479
Speaker 4: Let's do it.

626
00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:45,960
Speaker 1: Okay, the first one is a little bit of a giveaway.

627
00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:50,080
Speaker 1: Being super pumped gives us superpowers, turning the hardest problems

628
00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:52,800
Speaker 1: into amazing opportunities to do something great.

629
00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:54,920
Speaker 4: That is my boy, Travis Kalendar.

630
00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:58,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, remind us, like, where does that quote come from?

631
00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:00,680
Speaker 1: I know, obviously it's the name of your awesome book,

632
00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:03,280
Speaker 1: But was this like corporate? Was this like written down?

633
00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:06,200
Speaker 1: It was like the corporate coda for Uber in early days.

634
00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:06,880
Speaker 4: Totally so.

635
00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:09,760
Speaker 6: In I want to say twenty twelve or so, he

636
00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:11,720
Speaker 6: did this huge retreat where he took all of his

637
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:16,400
Speaker 6: employees to Las Vegas and like very big debauchery across

638
00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:18,480
Speaker 6: the city and had a bunch of fun and jay

639
00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:21,440
Speaker 6: Z and Beyonce or Beyonce performed on stage.

640
00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:22,880
Speaker 4: Jay Z was in the crowd.

641
00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:25,040
Speaker 6: It was like the epitome of what you would think

642
00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:29,840
Speaker 6: of like tech opulence in a corporate retreat.

643
00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:33,640
Speaker 4: And amidst that he holds this sort of.

644
00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:39,440
Speaker 6: Speech moment where he introduces is actually crazy long. He

645
00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:42,520
Speaker 6: introduces a list of I want to say a little

646
00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:44,720
Speaker 6: bit over. I want to say fourteen values that people

647
00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:46,800
Speaker 6: just had to adopt when they were working at Uber.

648
00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:50,080
Speaker 6: And it was a bunch of different words and phrases,

649
00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:52,040
Speaker 6: but one of them that stood out to me in

650
00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:54,800
Speaker 6: my reporting, which was my favorite, which is super pumped.

651
00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:57,240
Speaker 4: And it's just like this idea of being.

652
00:31:56,920 --> 00:31:59,720
Speaker 6: Like super pumped to approach everything and go into it

653
00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:03,280
Speaker 6: super hard. And it has stuck with me for a

654
00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:05,880
Speaker 6: very long time, and I think we'll probably never go

655
00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:06,840
Speaker 6: away at this point.

656
00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:09,160
Speaker 1: I know it's such a great book title too.

657
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:09,920
Speaker 4: Thank you.

658
00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:12,640
Speaker 1: Okay, next quote, I think we have a duty to

659
00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:15,320
Speaker 1: maintain the light of consciousness to make sure it continues

660
00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:15,960
Speaker 1: into the future.

661
00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:17,600
Speaker 4: Okay, that has to be right.

662
00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:21,960
Speaker 1: That is Elon okay, good. Next one. As an entrepreneur,

663
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:25,280
Speaker 1: I try to push the limits. Pedals to the metal. Oh,

664
00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:28,280
Speaker 1: that's good, Elon, that's actually Travis.

665
00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:31,800
Speaker 6: I knew there was Travis vibes there, but the car

666
00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:32,800
Speaker 6: close vibes.

667
00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:33,120
Speaker 4: Yeah.

668
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:35,960
Speaker 1: Pedal to the metal, Yeah, that trip. Yet, if you

669
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:37,600
Speaker 1: get up in the morning and think the future is

670
00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:40,120
Speaker 1: going to be better, it is a bright day. Otherwise

671
00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:40,640
Speaker 1: it is not.

672
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:45,920
Speaker 4: That's Elon, right, that is Elon. Yeah.

673
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:50,160
Speaker 6: That feels like very light and dark like compared to

674
00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:52,160
Speaker 6: his moods sort of thing, you know, like he's kind

675
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:54,400
Speaker 6: of depending on what time you get him, like, he

676
00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:56,240
Speaker 6: can either be optimist or superdomer.

677
00:32:56,880 --> 00:32:59,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, whether he's dark Elon or optimistic Elon for sure.

678
00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:02,840
Speaker 1: When you were talking about I will lose my sanity

679
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:04,880
Speaker 1: for real, that's when it's time to move on.

680
00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:06,920
Speaker 4: All right. That feels like Travis.

681
00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:08,200
Speaker 1: That's Travis.

682
00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:11,520
Speaker 4: Yep. The four reel gave it away from me.

683
00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:15,480
Speaker 1: This one I love. Do not have sex with another

684
00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:18,400
Speaker 1: employee unless a you have asked that person for that

685
00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:21,160
Speaker 1: privilege and they have responded with an emphatic yes, I

686
00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:23,800
Speaker 1: will have sex with you, and b the two or

687
00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:25,800
Speaker 1: more of you. Do not work in the same chain

688
00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:26,400
Speaker 1: of command.

689
00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:27,880
Speaker 4: I know exactly what this is from.

690
00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:30,800
Speaker 6: This is Travis and it was a company white email

691
00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:33,280
Speaker 6: before a different retreat, trying.

692
00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:35,280
Speaker 1: To in Miami right to Miami.

693
00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:38,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, trying to I guess, be a responsible boss. And

694
00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:39,840
Speaker 4: I'm not sure it quite.

695
00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:42,760
Speaker 1: And to This must have been an email that then

696
00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:43,760
Speaker 1: leaked immediately.

697
00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:46,160
Speaker 4: Yeah. It Actually it did not leak immediately.

698
00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:49,600
Speaker 6: It leaked when all the drama was happening in twenty

699
00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:51,320
Speaker 6: seventeen and the knives were out for him.

700
00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:52,600
Speaker 4: I remember that specifically.

701
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:55,840
Speaker 6: That is so someone held on to it for god,

702
00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:58,160
Speaker 6: it had to have been like five to seven years,

703
00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:00,800
Speaker 6: and then decided to leak it when he was.

704
00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:05,320
Speaker 1: On the roofs amazing. Last quote, life is too short

705
00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:06,600
Speaker 1: for long term grudges.

706
00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:12,920
Speaker 6: That feels like an ironic Elon quote, because that's right.

707
00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:16,279
Speaker 6: I was gonna say, like, I can't imagine him saying that,

708
00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:18,279
Speaker 6: but also perfect if he says.

709
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:20,799
Speaker 1: That, right, although Musk seems to have quite a bit

710
00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:22,800
Speaker 1: of grudges going on there, No, totally.

711
00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:26,439
Speaker 6: That's That's why I just sort of feel like it's like, okay, man,

712
00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:28,520
Speaker 6: you could say that and it does not written back

713
00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:32,120
Speaker 6: up to reality with me with what you're actually performing,

714
00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:33,640
Speaker 6: so anyway, I'm glad I got it.

715
00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:34,920
Speaker 4: That's funny.

716
00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:37,520
Speaker 1: Mike, Isaac, thank you so much for joining us.

717
00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:38,759
Speaker 4: Hey, thanks for having me.

718
00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:49,400
Speaker 2: This episode was produced by Stacy Wong, Naomi Shaven and

719
00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:51,280
Speaker 2: Rayhan Harmancier senior editors.

720
00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:53,760
Speaker 5: The idea for this very show also came.

721
00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:57,040
Speaker 2: From Rayhon Blake Maple's Handles Engineering, and we get special

722
00:34:57,200 --> 00:35:01,320
Speaker 2: editing assistants from Jeff Grocott, Antonio Muparet and Rafatchela show.

723
00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:05,480
Speaker 2: Our supervising producer is Magnus Hendrickson. The Elonink theme is

724
00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:09,400
Speaker 2: written and performed by Takai Yazuzawa and Alex Saguiera. Brendan

725
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:12,839
Speaker 2: Francis Nenham is our executive producer, and Sage Bauman is

726
00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:15,839
Speaker 2: the head of Bloomberg Podcasts. A big thanks to our

727
00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:19,040
Speaker 2: supporter Joel Weber. I'm Max Chapkin. If you have a minute,

728
00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:21,799
Speaker 2: rate and review our show, it'll help others find it

729
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:25,680
Speaker 2: and we will see you next week