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Speaker 1: Shock waves ripped through a family and a community when

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Speaker 1: a six year old little boy goes missing James Hutchinson again,

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Speaker 1: just six years old. Think about that, likely not even

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Speaker 1: in grade school, or at best just starting first grade.

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Speaker 1: How do you just disappear? For instance, if you take

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Speaker 1: your children to Walmart, wouldn't you notice one wasn't in

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Speaker 1: the car with you when you left? When you go

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Speaker 1: to bed at night and all your children are asleep,

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Speaker 1: wouldn't you notice everyone was missing the next morning? How

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Speaker 1: does a six year old little boy just seemingly vanish

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Speaker 1: into thin air like a magic trip? Six year old

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Speaker 1: little James take a Listen to our friends at crime

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Speaker 1: line dot com. Twenty nine year old mother of four

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Speaker 1: Brittany Gosney and her forty two year old boyfriend James Hamilton,

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Speaker 1: go to the Middletown Police Department on a Sunday morning

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Speaker 1: to report her six year old son is missing. According

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Speaker 1: to family and friends, James Hutchinson is a happy, go

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Speaker 1: lucky child who smiles all the time and loves to

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Speaker 1: give hugs. Police organized search teams and continue to talk

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Speaker 1: to Gosney and Hamilton, but something is odd about their stories.

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Speaker 1: They don't quite match. Up. But that's not unusual at

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Speaker 1: the outset. Very often, when you're speaking to multiple witnesses

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Speaker 1: about a single event, they have different perspectives. I found

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Speaker 1: that to be true. As a matter of fact, when

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Speaker 1: witnesses stories aligne too much, that's a problem as well.

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Speaker 1: But who is this little boy? Take a listen to

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Speaker 1: school Superintendent Marlin Style speaking to our friends at WCPO nine.

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Speaker 1: He would come running towards the front doors of the

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Speaker 1: school building with a giant smile on his face, and

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Speaker 1: he gave the biggest and as they said, the bestest

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Speaker 1: hugs you've ever That was James on the daily basis.

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Speaker 1: You know, oftentimes in education, we have incentives to reward

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Speaker 1: students for making their making their dreams come true and

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Speaker 1: reaching their goals. One recent incentive at Rosa Park's Elementary,

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Speaker 1: we found James in the cafeteria to big smile on

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Speaker 1: his face because he was rewarded with the Lucky Lunch

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Speaker 1: trade and that was important to him. The staff just

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Speaker 1: shared how joyful he was to be able to receive

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Speaker 1: the Lucky Lunch trade. I'm just thinking right now about

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Speaker 1: my twins. They've just turned thirteen, but at this age

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Speaker 1: they would literally jump in the car when I would

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Speaker 1: pick him up after school and be thrilled to tell

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Speaker 1: me one of them had gotten a quote purple card

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Speaker 1: that means you did something great at school, like you

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Speaker 1: exhibited great behavior, or you you held the door for someone,

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Speaker 1: or you help somebody feel better on the playground. They

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Speaker 1: would be thrilled when they got a purple card, and

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Speaker 1: that would be the topic of conversation at supper, throughout

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Speaker 1: the day, throughout the evening, till they went to bed.

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Speaker 1: How proud we were they got a purple card. This

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Speaker 1: little boy gets the lucky Lunch trade. I don't know

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Speaker 1: what that is, but I know it was something big

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Speaker 1: in six year old James's world. With me an all

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Speaker 1: star panel to break it down and put it back

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Speaker 1: together again. First of all, joining me out of the

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Speaker 1: Atlanta jurisdiction, but he practices all over the country. Former

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Speaker 1: prosecutor now defense attorney Daryl Cohen with Cohen, Cooper, Estep

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Speaker 1: and allan psychiatrist also joining me out of the Atlanta

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Speaker 1: jurisdiction this morning. Renowned in that jurisdiction, doctor Angela Arnold

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Speaker 1: at angela Arnold md dot com. Former La County Sheriff's

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Speaker 1: sergeant twenty six years with Special Victims Bureau specializing in children.

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Speaker 1: Dan Scott is joining us. Doctor Kendall Crowns, the medical

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Speaker 1: examiner for the state, joining me out of Texas. That's

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Speaker 1: Travis County, Austin. Courtney King, investigative reporter for Fox nineteen

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Speaker 1: in Own w X i X. All of us coming

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Speaker 1: together about James Scott. Let me go to you, Courtney King.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk about the day that this little boy is

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Speaker 1: reported missing. I understand it was twenty seven, yeah, Nancy,

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Speaker 1: so on Saturday, actually actually was Sunday, the twenty eighth,

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Speaker 1: is when Brittany Gosney and her boyfriend James Hamilton go

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Speaker 1: into the Middletown Police Department. Middletown is about forty five

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Speaker 1: minutes northwest of Cincinnati, and this is where they report

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Speaker 1: James missing, and an officer called in a detective because

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Speaker 1: the one who took the report, because they felt something

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Speaker 1: was off with the couple, especially because they came in

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Speaker 1: to make the report instead of calling nine one one

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Speaker 1: like most parents do when a child is missing. So

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Speaker 1: that's kind what spiraled the investigation into what it's since become.

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Speaker 1: You know, when they first went in Courtney King, What

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Speaker 1: were police dealing with? Then? Did the little boy vanish

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Speaker 1: from his own bed at night? Did he not come

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Speaker 1: home from school? Did he ride the school bus but

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Speaker 1: wasn't on the school bus? I mean, are they actually

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Speaker 1: in school in that area or are they learning by remote?

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Speaker 1: What did the parents say? So that is something we're

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Speaker 1: still trying to figure out. We do know James was

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Speaker 1: in the first grade at Rosa Parks Elementary in Middletown,

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Speaker 1: But in terms of what they said to officers, they

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Speaker 1: have not fully revealed that. What they did say at

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Speaker 1: a press conference, but then also in police reports is

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Speaker 1: that both Brittany Gosney and James Hamilton had conflicting stories.

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Speaker 1: Should out to Darryl Cohen. Darryll, you know what, sometimes

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Speaker 1: you just can't win for losing. For instance, if I

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Speaker 1: would put up two witnesses on the stand and their

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Speaker 1: stories were exactly a lot the defense which shred that,

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Speaker 1: or try to on cross examination and closing arguments because

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Speaker 1: clearly they have been coached according to the defense. But

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Speaker 1: if there's an inconsistency, which typically happens because everybody doesn't

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Speaker 1: see the crime the same way, the same lighting, the

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Speaker 1: same vantage point, the same recollection. If there's an inconsistency,

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Speaker 1: then the defense shreds that debens or tries to. So

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Speaker 1: the fact that two statements are not identical would not

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Speaker 1: bother me at the get go, Nancy, the fact that

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Speaker 1: the two statements are not identical is wonderful. You are

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Speaker 1: definitely between, as they say, a rock and a hard place.

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Speaker 1: But if they are identical, first of all, you and

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Speaker 1: I are standing directly next to each other looking at

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Speaker 1: exactly the same thing. When asked to describe it will

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Speaker 1: describe the same thing in different words. You may focus

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Speaker 1: on X, and I may focus on why. That doesn't

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Speaker 1: mean you're low or I'm lying. It means we see

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Speaker 1: it from a different perspective. So I am right there

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Speaker 1: with you. If their lockstep in their testimony, they've been

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Speaker 1: coached to the point of telling what needs to be told,

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Speaker 1: whether that be the truth or not. If there's an

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Speaker 1: inconsistency or two, that's wonderful, And I point that out

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Speaker 1: on closing argument, I'm beg you do trying to make

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Speaker 1: a silk purse out of a salsier. As a defense

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Speaker 1: attorney not judging, but I agree with your premise. Now

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Speaker 1: it does depend on how inconsistent if it's a glaring inconsistency.

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Speaker 1: For instance, if one person says that I last saw

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Speaker 1: him in bed and the other person says, we last

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Speaker 1: saw him playing in the front yard with his sister

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Speaker 1: and brother, that's a problem. That's a big inconsistency. Guys,

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Speaker 1: we're talking about the disappearance of a six year old

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Speaker 1: little boy. James Hutchinson straight back out to Courtney King

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Speaker 1: with Fox nineteen x I X another issue. Hold on Courtney,

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Speaker 1: I hear that Dan Scott wants in Dan Scott, La

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Speaker 1: County Sheriff's Sergeant Specialty Children, Dan Scott, did you notice

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Speaker 1: that they did not call nine one one they went

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Speaker 1: to the police station. Did that jump out at you.

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Speaker 1: That's extremely unusual. Normally they're going to the purse, the

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Speaker 1: parent is going to call nine one immediately. They're going

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Speaker 1: to be distraught. When you talked about inconsistencies, that is

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Speaker 1: definitely something we looked at or look at and rehearsed statements.

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Speaker 1: But you also look at their emotional state, their demeanor.

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Speaker 1: The timeliness in reporting minor inconsistencies are fine, but like

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Speaker 1: you said, if it's a major inconsistency, the demeanor is

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Speaker 1: not appropriate. A parents should be beside themselves with a

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Speaker 1: six year old missing. You know what He's right, Doctor

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Speaker 1: Angela Arnold announce psychiagist join inside of the Atlanta area.

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Speaker 1: What would you expect to see and two parents? And I,

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Speaker 1: like Courtney King, wx IX and Dan Scott, I also

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Speaker 1: have a problem with not calling nine one one the

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Speaker 1: moment you realize the child is missing. But go ahead, sure,

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Speaker 1: because Nancy, the moment your child is missing. If anyone

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Speaker 1: has ever experienced that, and I'm sure there are a

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Speaker 1: lot of people who have experienced losing their child somewhere

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Speaker 1: and you immediately go into a panic mode. You want

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Speaker 1: to shut down everything and have everybody you can looking

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Speaker 1: for your child. And I think it's very unusual for

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Speaker 1: two people to maybe stroll into the police department and say, oh,

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Speaker 1: we have a missing child. You would expect them to

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Speaker 1: be crying and distraught and inconsolable. I don't imagine there

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Speaker 1: could be any calm at all. So just think everyone,

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Speaker 1: think about have you ever lost your child for a

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Speaker 1: and how did you feel at that moment? There is

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Speaker 1: no calm, and then afterwards, when you find the child, Nancy,

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Speaker 1: you just there's this feeling of everything goes through your

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Speaker 1: mind about what could have possibly happened to that child.

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we are talking about

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Speaker 1: the disappearance of a six year old little boy, James Hutchinson.

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Speaker 1: We understand that mom, Brittany Gosney and her boyfriend James

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Speaker 1: Hamilton go to the police station to report the little

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Speaker 1: boy missing. And we're making a lot of hey about that.

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Speaker 1: But is it a serious issue or did they decide

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Speaker 1: to go straight to the police to report missing hopefully

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Speaker 1: hopefully getting more action from police. We were just talking

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Speaker 1: to doctor Angela Arnold, psychiatrist, who was describing how many

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Speaker 1: parents feel their child goes missing. I want to go

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Speaker 1: to a special guest joining us, Tracy Campbell. She's a

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Speaker 1: public relationships director with north Star International Search and Recovery.

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Speaker 1: To Tracy Campbell, Tracy, have you dealt with parents who

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Speaker 1: are missing a child before? Oh? Absolutely? What is their

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Speaker 1: typical demeanor? Franic Franic besides themselves crying? But we don't

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Speaker 1: know here about to Courtney King w X I X.

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Speaker 1: We don't know their behavior. We don't know their demeanor

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Speaker 1: because it has not been released. Guys, what happened to

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Speaker 1: this little boy? Take a listen to our friend Sean

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Speaker 1: Coulday at wh Io TV for investigators. This is a

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Speaker 1: story that started yesterday when the mother and her boyfriend

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Speaker 1: should have here to the Middletown Police station saying their

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Speaker 1: son was missing. Investigators thought that sounded strange, so they

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Speaker 1: separated the mother and her boy friend and from there

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Speaker 1: they say the mom told a horrific story they come

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Speaker 1: to the station to report their son missing. They also

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Speaker 1: think that is strange. But is it in the grand scheme?

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Speaker 1: You know, sometimes when you don't get satisfaction over the phone,

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Speaker 1: you just got to get in the car and go

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Speaker 1: to the location. So at the very beginning, let me

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Speaker 1: go straight back out to you, Tracy Campbell, PR Director

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Speaker 1: north Star International Search and Recovery. What would be the

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Speaker 1: first thing that you do when parents say my son

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Speaker 1: is gone? How do you start that kind of search? Well,

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Speaker 1: first of all, I need to clarify so we are volunteer.

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Speaker 1: We do not get involved until a police agency asks

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Speaker 1: us to come in and that's what happens. Wonderful question

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Speaker 1: to you. What would be the first thing searchers should

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Speaker 1: do when a child is reported missing? Yeah, we would

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Speaker 1: want to know where they were last seeing what the

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Speaker 1: description was. Was there anything wrong with the child? Did

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Speaker 1: they have an ailment with journey disability? Dan Scott, formerly

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Speaker 1: with La County Sheriff's sergeant twenty six years. Dan, I

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Speaker 1: think that was you jumping in about search the house,

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Speaker 1: and hey, wait a minute, I agree with you number one,

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Speaker 1: But we know so little about what the parents told

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Speaker 1: police at the get go, Like were they in a

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Speaker 1: park that morning? Were they was he playing out in

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Speaker 1: the front yard like Samantha running was when she was

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Speaker 1: abducted from her grandma's house. Was she asleep in her

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Speaker 1: bed like Elizabeth Smart? It could go so many different ways,

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Speaker 1: so it really depends on what the parents' story is.

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Speaker 1: But you're saying search the house first. What do you

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Speaker 1: do then, Dan Scott, what you want to do is obviously,

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Speaker 1: if it was in a park, you're going to start there.

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Speaker 1: But if it's reported that the child had anything to

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Speaker 1: do with the home, as soon as possible, you want

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Speaker 1: to get back to that home and are searching. Even

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Speaker 1: if the parents tell you they've searched that room, you

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Speaker 1: have to search everything, even the logical places in the garage,

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Speaker 1: in the closets. In any little crawl space. Children have

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Speaker 1: crawled into refrigerators and cabinets, so you have to check

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Speaker 1: the home. A six year old is considered a critical missing.

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Speaker 1: That's when we go all out to find that child immediately.

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Speaker 1: It's not like a teenager that's missing. A six year old,

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Speaker 1: you're going to bring all your resources to bear, regardless

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Speaker 1: of the size of the department. What do you mean

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Speaker 1: by that? A six year old is considered critical missing

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Speaker 1: because they don't normally just wander off or go stay

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Speaker 1: with friends or anything like that. The younger the child,

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Speaker 1: the more serious it is that they were either abducted

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Speaker 1: or something of that nature, or even if they did

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Speaker 1: get lost, they're at such a young age they can't

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Speaker 1: take care of themselves, so you want to get all

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Speaker 1: your resources looking for that child immediately. That's really hard

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Speaker 1: to gauge where the cops should start first because we

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Speaker 1: don't know what the parents said. But generally speaking, Daryl Cohen,

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Speaker 1: I think you'll agree with me. You've prosecuted and defended

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Speaker 1: so many cases that sp standard operating procedure is you

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Speaker 1: start at the home or the location child I've seen,

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Speaker 1: and you start working out, for instance, if it's at

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Speaker 1: the home, you do the home, and then you go

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Speaker 1: to the yard, then the neighborhood, then the corner store,

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Speaker 1: and then the church whatever is in that area. And

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Speaker 1: also following up a what Dan Scott said, do I

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Speaker 1: have to say John Bonnet or Ramsey because the cops

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Speaker 1: search the home at oops missed a room and that

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Speaker 1: was the room where her body was cut. Nancy, Look,

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Speaker 1: you not only searched the house. You search the house,

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Speaker 1: the house and the grounds, as we used to say,

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Speaker 1: the curtlage of the house. We look in trash cans,

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Speaker 1: we look under bushes, we look to see if there's

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Speaker 1: any freshly dug dirt. We look everywhere, and then when

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Speaker 1: we've looked there, we look again, and then we look again.

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Speaker 1: Then we bring out the dogs to see if they

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Speaker 1: can pick up a set. There is no stern, untone unturned,

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Speaker 1: always always, always look at everything and look at it

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Speaker 1: over and over again. At first, we had an issue

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Speaker 1: with the fact that there seemed to be inconsistencies and

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Speaker 1: the mom and the living boyfriends story. Take a listen

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Speaker 1: to the rest of what sean kind of hey WHIOTV

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Speaker 1: was telling us in Middletown Monday, night, about two hundred

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Speaker 1: people gathered for a prayer, a message, and a tribute,

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Speaker 1: all in memory of six year old James Hutchinson, who

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Speaker 1: was our world, who's biological father can't comprehend his son

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Speaker 1: is gone. I don't know how somebody could be a

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Speaker 1: monster and thinks ode and his own mother at the

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Speaker 1: This is heartbreaking for all of us, and it's it's difficult.

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Speaker 1: Middletown police have charged six year old James's mother, Brittany Gonzy,

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Speaker 1: with murder and other crimes. Goncy's boyfriend, James Hamilton, also

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Speaker 1: facing charges. According to investigative documents from the Premble County

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Speaker 1: Sheriff's Office, Godzy this weekend admitted she had killed Hutchinson,

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Speaker 1: her son, because her boyfriend wanted to get rid of

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Speaker 1: the kids. Did you hear that the reason their stories

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Speaker 1: were inconsistent? Courtney King, Angela Arnold, Darryl Cohen, Tracy Campbell,

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Speaker 1: Dan Scott, everybody agreed that that's something you have to

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Speaker 1: look at. If it's a minor inconsistency, no big deal.

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Speaker 1: If it's a major inconsistency, the first thing you do

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Speaker 1: is what these cops rightly did. Separate and interrogate because

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Speaker 1: if they're together, Daryl Cohen, they'll stick together with their story.

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Speaker 1: If you separate them, you can carve them up like

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Speaker 1: a Thanksgiving turkey. Bam oh, Absolutely, you carve them up.

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Speaker 1: You separate them, and you give them time, You give

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Speaker 1: them silence. You darken the room, not too dark, but

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Speaker 1: just enough they feel isolated. It's an interrogation, not one

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Speaker 1: of your your Saturday night dates, Daryl co when you

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Speaker 1: it was next the Little Music Jazz Flavors Crime Stories

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Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. Guys, for those of you just joining us,

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Speaker 1: a little six year old boy, James Hudginson goes missing

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Speaker 1: and it doesn't take cops very long once they separate

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Speaker 1: bio mom from her living boyfriend to find out what happened.

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Speaker 1: The mommy says, I did it, but he made me

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Speaker 1: do it. You know what, Just save it, save it

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Speaker 1: all that he made me do it. That's total b s.

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Speaker 1: They are two demons from hell. One is Satan Lucifer

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Speaker 1: and one is Bill Zebub, the henchman stirring the pot

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Speaker 1: together of pain and torture. That's just the way I

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Speaker 1: see them. But to you, Dan Scott, you've done a

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Speaker 1: lot of interrogations. I love interrogations. I don't know about you,

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Speaker 1: but I especially love to separate codefendants and pursue it

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Speaker 1: to the constitution of course, conducting interrogation and really hammering

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Speaker 1: in on those inconsistencies. You can even go so far

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Speaker 1: as to say, hey, Jackie Kelly's right out right now,

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Speaker 1: So what really happened? She says you did it? Is

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Speaker 1: that true? Did you do it? That's perfectly okay under

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Speaker 1: the constitution, Dan, what would you do? That's exactly what

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Speaker 1: I would do. And I guarantee you that the cops

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Speaker 1: knew really quick that something was wrong here, and it

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Speaker 1: won't take long once you separate them. I did love

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Speaker 1: doing interrogations, and it's I'd be as right from the

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Speaker 1: get go that these people would be lying. And then

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Speaker 1: you do play one off the other and you can

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Speaker 1: lie to them too. We can tell them other that

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Speaker 1: her boyfriend said she did it, or vice versa, and

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Speaker 1: watch them squirm and it won't take long. It wouldn't

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Speaker 1: take long for the officers to get a confession and

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Speaker 1: to see this story completely break down. You know, we've

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Speaker 1: been judging mommy as to how she should react with

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Speaker 1: her child missing, how we would expect her to behave

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Speaker 1: what we think her meaning would be. But take a

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Speaker 1: list of our friend Karen Johnson at WLWT News five.

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Speaker 1: James Hutchinson, a six year old who family members say

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Speaker 1: gave the best hugs and cheek kisses. A first grader

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Speaker 1: at Rosa Parks Elementary School whose joyful spirit brightened the classroom.

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Speaker 1: Middletown police say James died over the weekend at the

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Speaker 1: hands of his mother, twenty nine year old Brittany Gosney.

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Speaker 1: The mother is now showing much remorse. At this time,

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Speaker 1: she has confessed to doing this. We still don't know

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Speaker 1: how the child died, but we do know mommy doesn't

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Speaker 1: seem to be too worried about it. Take a listen

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Speaker 1: to more from Karen Johnson. Wlwtn's five. Investigators say Gosney

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Speaker 1: and her boyfriend James Hamilton, went to the police department

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Speaker 1: yesterday to report James missing. That was the first red

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Speaker 1: flag they showed up instead of calling nine one one.

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Speaker 1: Police say they later learned Gosney intended on abandoning James

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Speaker 1: and his two siblings at rush Round Park in Prebble County.

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Speaker 1: When James was out of the car in this lot,

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Speaker 1: Court documents state he attempted to get back in, Gosney

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Speaker 1: took off and dragged her son. Police say Gosney told

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Speaker 1: them she returned thirty to forty minutes later and James

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Speaker 1: was dead. She placed his body in the car. She

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Speaker 1: took the other two back with James, and they were

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Speaker 1: responded back to the residents straight out to special guests

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Speaker 1: joining us in addition to Tracy Campbell, PR, Director of

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Speaker 1: Northstar International Search and Recovery, who is actually working the case.

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Speaker 1: But first to doctor Kendall Crowns, Deputy Medical Examiner, Travis County, Texas.

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Speaker 1: That's Austin, doctor Kendall Crowns. Did you just hear what

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Speaker 1: our friend Karen Johnson said. The little boy, even though

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Speaker 1: he had been horribly abused, tried to get back in

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Speaker 1: the car with mommy. She slammed the door and dragged him,

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Speaker 1: dragged him, leaving his body after having been dragged, comes

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Speaker 1: back thirty forty minutes later with her children, her other

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Speaker 1: children in the car, throws now dead James, six years old,

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Speaker 1: in the car and goes home. How would that kill

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Speaker 1: a child? So when you get dragged by a car,

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Speaker 1: you can have a number of things happen. You can

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Speaker 1: get the actual road rash or the grating away of

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Speaker 1: your skin from the blacktop of the road can cause

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Speaker 1: significance soft tissue damage and blood loss. You can also

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Speaker 1: be hit by parts of the car. Usually it's the

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Speaker 1: wheels that run over the child or the individual as

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Speaker 1: they're trying to hold onto the car, and that will

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Speaker 1: cause fractures of ribs, skull extremities, etc. And then that

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Speaker 1: will cause deeper injuries the organs, like lacerating the liver

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Speaker 1: and heart and causing extensive blood loss. So usually in

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Speaker 1: people that are dragged by cars, you see any combination

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Speaker 1: of those findings. To Dan Scott, former La County sheriff

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Speaker 1: sergeant specializing in children, can you imagine the terror this

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Speaker 1: little boy went through after being abused so horribly by

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Speaker 1: his mother and her living lover. He's still trying to

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Speaker 1: get back in the car with mommy and as siblings

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Speaker 1: as that door smammed on him and mommy took off

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Speaker 1: dragging him. Don't you know those children in the backseat

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Speaker 1: were screaming their heads off. They could hear him screaming

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Speaker 1: as mommy kept driving. It is horrible and the last

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Speaker 1: moments of that boy's life would have been horrendous. But

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Speaker 1: you also have to look like you mentioned that the

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Speaker 1: siblings is abuse in itself. The emotional abuse of watching

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Speaker 1: your sibling being murdered by your mother is something that

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Speaker 1: is not even comprehendable for most people, and they're going

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Speaker 1: to be carrying that for the rest of their lives

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Speaker 1: and dealing with it. Here's more from our friends at

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Speaker 1: WLWT News five. Back to their home on Crawford Street

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Speaker 1: in Middletown. Police say Gosney put his body in a

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Speaker 1: bedroom upstairs sometimes Saturday night, Saturday evening when the other

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Speaker 1: kids fell asleep. That's when they responded to to seventy

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Speaker 1: five by Lawrenceburg and that's when they disposed of James

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Speaker 1: in the New High River. Police say Hamilton helped Gosney

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Speaker 1: throw james body over the two seventy five bridge into

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Speaker 1: the river. Oh I could think of right then, Courtney Kane,

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Speaker 1: our friend joining us from Fox nineteen and you know

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Speaker 1: ww X I X was my own children, and how

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Speaker 1: tiny and helpless they were at age six two throw

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Speaker 1: his body into a river. But also, Courtney King, as

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Speaker 1: a trial lawyer, I can't help but comment Courtney that

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Speaker 1: even now Mommy is lying because she's saying he made

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Speaker 1: me do it, But I'm not hearing about they live

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Speaker 1: in James Hamilton being in the car when mommy did this,

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Speaker 1: and that doesn't jibe with him making her do it,

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Speaker 1: don't into So he was actually indicted on several charges

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Speaker 1: including growth, abuse of a corpse, tampering with evidence. So, police,

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Speaker 1: do you believe he was somehow involved with James? Do

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Speaker 1: we think he was in the car? Well, that we

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Speaker 1: don't know for sure. He is charged with things like

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Speaker 1: kidnapping and endangering children indie indictment, but that we don't

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Speaker 1: know for sure. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Take a listen, guys,

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Speaker 1: we're talking about the disappearance of James Hutchinson six. We

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Speaker 1: now know he's dead thanks to mommy and her boyfriend.

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Speaker 1: Take a listen to our cut twelve. This is Ken

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Speaker 1: Brown from Fox nineteen. Listen the police chief revealing today

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Speaker 1: that James's two siblings were along for the unimaginable ride.

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Speaker 1: Both we're not hurt. The mother is now showing much

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Speaker 1: remorse at this time, but she has confessed to doing this.

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Speaker 1: That's why we're able to get the charges. We'll know

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Speaker 1: more once James is recovered and we can get a

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Speaker 1: cornered to do an autopsy. Is it true, Courtney King,

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Speaker 1: that when she goes back to get the body, she

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Speaker 1: leaves the other children. What happened to the other children?

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Speaker 1: So right now we know that they are in the

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Speaker 1: city of CPS and we're still not sure exactly where

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Speaker 1: they're going. They did tell us that will authorities till

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Speaker 1: us that they are in foster care. We do know

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Speaker 1: some of the family members from Brittany's side of this

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Speaker 1: are trying to get the children, but as far as

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Speaker 1: we know, they're still in foster Okay, So I'm trying

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Speaker 1: to figure out what happened at the time. Take us

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Speaker 1: to our cut four. This is Fox nineteen. Now a

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00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:47,560
Speaker 1: six year old child is dead, his mother is behind bars,

429
00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:50,520
Speaker 1: and his two siblings are now in foster care after

430
00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:54,560
Speaker 1: Brittany Gossney is accused of attempting to abandon her children

431
00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:58,920
Speaker 1: in Rush Run wildlife area in Prebble County. It is

432
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:05,320
Speaker 1: a hard heart rendering case the allegations, sir, but also

433
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:08,840
Speaker 1: as I must always say, that everybody is entitled to

434
00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:12,000
Speaker 1: the presumption of innocence until proven guilty in a court

435
00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:16,840
Speaker 1: of law. And so that's why I don't discuss opinions

436
00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:23,680
Speaker 1: of evidence free trial. I don't try cases in the newspaper. Okay, well,

437
00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:25,960
Speaker 1: that's all well and do. But what I'm trying to

438
00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:30,200
Speaker 1: figure out is where is this little boy's body abandoning

439
00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:35,720
Speaker 1: her children in Rush Run wildlife area. Let's go to

440
00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:38,760
Speaker 1: special guest joining us, Tracy Campbell, the PR director for

441
00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:43,040
Speaker 1: north Star International Search and Recovery, a voluntary group that

442
00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:46,920
Speaker 1: acts once they are called in by local law enforcement.

443
00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:50,360
Speaker 1: Chasey Campbell, thank you so much for being with us.

444
00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:54,000
Speaker 1: As of right now, James's body, this little six year

445
00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:57,440
Speaker 1: old child, has not been found. Is that correct? Correct?

446
00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:00,400
Speaker 1: What can you tell me about this area? Rush Run?

447
00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:03,880
Speaker 1: I'm not even familiar with what you're referring to. Is

448
00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:09,240
Speaker 1: Rush Run? Okay to Courtney King Fox nineteen. Where is

449
00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:14,040
Speaker 1: Rush Rush Run? So? Rush Run is about thirty minutes

450
00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:18,600
Speaker 1: northwest of Middletown and that's in Prebble County. Middletown is

451
00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:22,560
Speaker 1: in Butler County, Ohio. Prebble County is also Ohio. So

452
00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:26,640
Speaker 1: it's basically a wildlife a big park that people go

453
00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:30,040
Speaker 1: to have a picnic or maybe get some exercise outside

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00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:34,080
Speaker 1: a family type place. So it's a pretty well known

455
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:37,440
Speaker 1: park in that area of Ohio. Where is it in

456
00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:40,840
Speaker 1: relation to where we think mommy throwed the body over

457
00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:44,320
Speaker 1: into the water, So it's pretty it's pretty far from

458
00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:48,720
Speaker 1: that because authorities say that she put James into the

459
00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:53,479
Speaker 1: water and near Lawrenceburg, Indiana, So that would be about

460
00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:58,280
Speaker 1: in at least an hour's south. I would say from Pebble,

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00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:00,680
Speaker 1: No wonder Schrice Campbell has a heart of it, it's

462
00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:05,880
Speaker 1: like an hour away. PR Director north Star International Search

463
00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:13,040
Speaker 1: and Recovery Tracy tell me about the search for James's body. Okay, Um, Well,

464
00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:17,200
Speaker 1: it was disclosed to us that the body was put

465
00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:20,920
Speaker 1: into the water at the two seventy five Lawrenceburg Bridge

466
00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:26,680
Speaker 1: down here. Um, it's been heavy rainfall, a lot of snow,

467
00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:31,360
Speaker 1: The river is in flood zone, the bank is covered

468
00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:36,280
Speaker 1: um underneath water. So we weren't able to get out

469
00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:39,640
Speaker 1: exactly how we wanted to. Yesterday. We had a search

470
00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:46,280
Speaker 1: that encompassed several agencies. We had Prebble County Sheriff's Department,

471
00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:50,320
Speaker 1: we um on behalf of them in Middletown, Butler County

472
00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:59,720
Speaker 1: Sheriff's Department, north Star International, Landstar or Ohio Landstar Butler

473
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:08,840
Speaker 1: provided a helicopter their command center. We had canine dogs,

474
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:13,520
Speaker 1: we had a water patrol on standby, We had mounted patrol,

475
00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:18,840
Speaker 1: ground searchers, drones. We had every aspect covered. But the water,

476
00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:21,720
Speaker 1: the river is just not cooperating. We can't get exactly

477
00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:25,960
Speaker 1: where we want to be due to the high waters

478
00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:30,280
Speaker 1: and the debris. Take a listen to our cut fifteen.

479
00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:35,000
Speaker 1: This is Raven Richard WCPO nine. This search for James

480
00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:37,880
Speaker 1: just started but is now paused because of the rising

481
00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:40,920
Speaker 1: levels in the Ohio River. But it is frustrating because

482
00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:44,000
Speaker 1: you know, you think that if not as much time

483
00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:46,600
Speaker 1: goes by, you'll find the person. You have a better

484
00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:49,280
Speaker 1: indication of where the person may be, you know. But

485
00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:54,240
Speaker 1: with this water and the time going past, you don't know.

486
00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:57,720
Speaker 1: The river is expected to reach fifty four feet by Thursday.

487
00:32:57,880 --> 00:32:59,360
Speaker 1: If you had a boat out in this type of

488
00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:02,680
Speaker 1: weather with the water, it could be hard to control

489
00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:07,120
Speaker 1: the boat. Also, sometimes the water may look calm on top,

490
00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:11,160
Speaker 1: but underneath it's anything but. Incident Commander Jeff Cherie with

491
00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:15,760
Speaker 1: North Store International Search and Rescue knows the dangers. Items

492
00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:18,640
Speaker 1: are moving by us so quickly. Logs and large debris

493
00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:21,480
Speaker 1: that it's hard to see what we're even looking for.

494
00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:23,400
Speaker 1: I want to be in any waterways at this point.

495
00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:26,760
Speaker 1: When the water rises rapidly after long winter, it's going

496
00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:28,440
Speaker 1: to pick up all sorts of debris that are on

497
00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:30,240
Speaker 1: the river banks. So as you can see, the water

498
00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:32,200
Speaker 1: is kind of churning a little bit, lots of items.

499
00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:35,560
Speaker 1: It's becoming heart wrenching. Well, I think of all the

500
00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:38,720
Speaker 1: logs and the debris churning and going round and round

501
00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:42,200
Speaker 1: in that river. I think about everyone at north Stoy

502
00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:48,440
Speaker 1: International Search and Recovery trying to find this little boy's body.

503
00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:52,760
Speaker 1: To Tracy Campbell joining us from North Story International, what

504
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:57,360
Speaker 1: are the searchers up against the river, the Ohio River

505
00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:02,080
Speaker 1: and time you know, there is still moving rapidly and

506
00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:06,920
Speaker 1: the waters are still high. They've not gone down as

507
00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:11,120
Speaker 1: quickly as what we thought, so we're not sure, if

508
00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:13,480
Speaker 1: you know, we had an indication where we wanted to

509
00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:17,200
Speaker 1: look for little James, but based upon the current of

510
00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:21,240
Speaker 1: the water, we're not sure. We'll just keep looking. Yesterday,

511
00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:23,640
Speaker 1: we covered from two seventy five all the way down

512
00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:26,920
Speaker 1: to Aurora, covering the banks as much as we could

513
00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:31,759
Speaker 1: and mounted and we had drones but no success yet.

514
00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:36,520
Speaker 1: You know, I'm just thinking about Tracy Campbell and everyone

515
00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:40,360
Speaker 1: else with North Star out there, braving the elements, trying

516
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:44,439
Speaker 1: to find this little boy. You know, unless you've been there,

517
00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:47,560
Speaker 1: or you've been part of a search before, you don't

518
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:50,000
Speaker 1: know how difficult it is to just what do you do?

519
00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:56,160
Speaker 1: Just you just start looking. They're using everything they can, drones, dogs,

520
00:34:56,360 --> 00:34:59,520
Speaker 1: mounted by foot trying to find this little boy, and

521
00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:02,200
Speaker 1: mother nature is waging a war against them the whole time.

522
00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:07,080
Speaker 1: And all I can think about is this mother, This

523
00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:14,640
Speaker 1: mother to doctor Angela Arnold psychiatrist, what I can't even

524
00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:18,080
Speaker 1: call her mother. For a man to walk up and say, hey,

525
00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:22,120
Speaker 1: I'm sick of your kids, get rid of them. You

526
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:25,640
Speaker 1: know what, he would have a mouth full of knuckle,

527
00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:30,799
Speaker 1: no mayo to even suggest to any mother in her

528
00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:33,160
Speaker 1: right mind to get rid of her children. She did

529
00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:37,359
Speaker 1: exactly that. According to police, she murdered one little boy,

530
00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:40,759
Speaker 1: disposed of his body, and dropped the other children off

531
00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:44,600
Speaker 1: at a wildlife preserved to die and Nancy can rot

532
00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:47,839
Speaker 1: in hell. This is not the first time we've heard

533
00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:53,240
Speaker 1: of cases like this. Every time less upsetting just because

534
00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:58,680
Speaker 1: no other children. It's so unbelievable. And it's always about

535
00:35:58,719 --> 00:36:02,760
Speaker 1: a woman having a boyfriend who doesn't want the children anymore.

536
00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:06,800
Speaker 1: Do you think a boyfriend that badly? They eat everything

537
00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:09,560
Speaker 1: in the house, they don't clean up after themselves. Why mother.

538
00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:12,600
Speaker 1: I agree with you, Nancy, I completely agree with you.

539
00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:16,120
Speaker 1: And it's so hard to wrap your head around. But

540
00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:19,480
Speaker 1: that is one of the top five reasons why women

541
00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:23,000
Speaker 1: kill their children. It is because a new man in

542
00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:25,759
Speaker 1: their life asked them to do so. It's one of

543
00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:28,960
Speaker 1: the top five reasons why women kill their children. Darryll Cohen,

544
00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:34,120
Speaker 1: there were so many times, one of them because sits stop.

545
00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:38,239
Speaker 1: Let's don't do this. Don't you are glad you could

546
00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:41,120
Speaker 1: join us, Darrell jump in. They could have, but they

547
00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:44,960
Speaker 1: didn't because when you're on a part of me, when

548
00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:47,799
Speaker 1: you're on a roll and you're doing the wrong thing,

549
00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:51,480
Speaker 1: you continue to do the wrong thing, and good people

550
00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:55,520
Speaker 1: don't do the wrong thing. This is more that I

551
00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:59,479
Speaker 1: can handle. It's more than i'd like to hear. I've

552
00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:04,719
Speaker 1: heard it over and over again, different faces, different places.

553
00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:08,759
Speaker 1: But this is the worst how a mother can do

554
00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:12,200
Speaker 1: what she did. She may have been a biological mother,

555
00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:15,680
Speaker 1: but she was not anything resist I'm not letting him

556
00:37:15,719 --> 00:37:18,960
Speaker 1: off the hook. He's not off the hook, but she

557
00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:22,160
Speaker 1: had a duty. He didn't. What woman in her right

558
00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:26,080
Speaker 1: mind listens to some live in saying get rid of

559
00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:28,000
Speaker 1: your shouldren and then you go out like a robot

560
00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:34,000
Speaker 1: and do it. Quick question, Courtney King. Is this jurisdiction

561
00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:37,920
Speaker 1: a high end? Is it a death penalty jurisdiction that

562
00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:40,040
Speaker 1: you know? Nancy? I can find that out for you.

563
00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:43,359
Speaker 1: But we do know that in Ohio they are they

564
00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:46,560
Speaker 1: are what there is another case of a little boy

565
00:37:46,680 --> 00:37:49,640
Speaker 1: who would police say also put in the river and

566
00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:52,799
Speaker 1: prosecutors are speaking the death Well, I would say that's

567
00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:55,200
Speaker 1: a very strong indicator that it is a death penalty

568
00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:58,319
Speaker 1: stay and if this is not a death penalty case,

569
00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:02,480
Speaker 1: if you're gonna have it, this woman, Brittany Gosney and

570
00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:08,160
Speaker 1: her live in James Hamilton are the perfect candidates. They

571
00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:11,080
Speaker 1: can both go straight to hell doing this, pointing the

572
00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:15,920
Speaker 1: finger at each other. We wait as justice, God willing unfalls.

573
00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:19,400
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace Crimes story, signing off, Goodbye friend,