WEBVTT - Closing in on the Wagners 0:00:00.400 --> 0:00:03.920 The cheerleaders at a gym in Buffalo have been recording 0:00:03.960 --> 0:00:09.240 themselves to make a new documentary where the news reporters 0:00:09.240 --> 0:00:13.160 because one year ago a mass shooting changed their lives. 0:00:13.200 --> 0:00:15.400 He just walked around shot all the black people. The 0:00:15.480 --> 0:00:18.440 cheer squad, most of whom are black, had to figure 0:00:18.480 --> 0:00:21.160 out how to go on and how to compete. I 0:00:21.280 --> 0:00:23.840 wanted to win for them more than anything this season. 0:00:24.000 --> 0:00:28.640 Listen to the embedded podcast from NPR within the iHeartRadio app, 0:00:28.800 --> 0:00:32.720 or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Carol Fisher and 0:00:32.760 --> 0:00:36.800 I'm hosting a podcast called The Girlfriends. It's Las Vegas, 0:00:36.960 --> 0:00:40.200 it's the nineteen nineties, and it is time to find 0:00:40.240 --> 0:00:44.560 a husband. There were four Jewish doctors who were felt 0:00:44.600 --> 0:00:48.040 to be eligible bachelors. One of them was of the 0:00:48.640 --> 0:00:53.239 Baron bat On paper he was perfect, but in reality, 0:00:53.440 --> 0:00:58.080 this guy's a wacko. He shouted to the point went unconscious. 0:00:58.280 --> 0:01:00.560 I would call him and I would say, I know 0:01:00.600 --> 0:01:03.480 you killed my sister. You can listen to The Girlfriends 0:01:03.600 --> 0:01:07.680 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get 0:01:07.680 --> 0:01:12.600 your podcasts from iHeart Podcasts and Nomadic Engine. The acclaimed 0:01:12.720 --> 0:01:17.279 dramatic thriller returns after Shock season two. He's like a ghost. 0:01:17.440 --> 0:01:21.120 We had an agreement to keep each other's secret. None 0:01:21.160 --> 0:01:23.160 of you are making decisions to keep the rest of 0:01:23.240 --> 0:01:27.880 us safe, which leaves me. I'm asking for your forgiveness. 0:01:28.560 --> 0:01:32.920 After Shock season two, starring Sarah Wayne Kelly's, David Harbor 0:01:33.160 --> 0:01:35.840 and Jeffrey Dean Morgan listened to after Shock on the 0:01:35.840 --> 0:01:40.840 iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts? Hi, 0:01:41.120 --> 0:01:44.160 I'm free and I'm rthy. We have spent the last 0:01:44.200 --> 0:01:47.160 twenty years building and working at some of the largest 0:01:47.160 --> 0:01:50.200 companies in the world. We worked with some remarkable people. 0:01:50.440 --> 0:01:52.920 Rob mclenny. When I see the people of Wrexham, I 0:01:52.920 --> 0:01:55.360 grew up exactly like them. Check out the art in 0:01:55.440 --> 0:02:00.440 Trurom show. That is a R D HI and s 0:02:00.640 --> 0:02:04.240 R I R a M show. Listen to the arc 0:02:04.240 --> 0:02:08.200 the Inustry I'm Show on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast Oh, 0:02:08.280 --> 0:02:14.799 wherever you get to your podcast? Hey, No Billy sees 0:02:14.880 --> 0:02:19.960 something like ed Yeah, we're convansoning ads like in sealteen six. 0:02:21.919 --> 0:02:24.200 When are they going to point to George being part 0:02:24.240 --> 0:02:28.880 of this conspiracy? Hannah replies, I won't sign papers ever. 0:02:29.280 --> 0:02:31.480 It won't happen. They will have to kill me first. 0:02:37.720 --> 0:02:41.000 This is the Piked and Massacre Return to Pike County 0:02:41.560 --> 0:02:47.399 Season four, episode twelve, Closing in on the Wagners. I'm 0:02:47.440 --> 0:02:51.200 Courtney Armstrong, a television producer at KATI Studios with Stephanie 0:02:51.280 --> 0:02:54.680 Lydecker and Jeff Shane. It's the middle of George Wagner 0:02:54.720 --> 0:02:57.800 the Fourth trial. It's important to note that George Wagner 0:02:57.880 --> 0:03:00.839 the Fourth, along with his father Billy Wagner, whose trial 0:03:00.960 --> 0:03:04.560 is upcoming, deny any wrongdoing and have pleaded not guilty 0:03:04.600 --> 0:03:09.400 to all charges. So far, there's been hours of testimony 0:03:09.440 --> 0:03:12.600 by investigators and relatives that have painted a very real 0:03:12.639 --> 0:03:16.320 portrait of what the crime scenes look like. But while 0:03:16.360 --> 0:03:19.559 prosecutors have laid out the grizzly details of the murderers, 0:03:19.600 --> 0:03:21.960 they have yet to connect George Wagner the Fourth to 0:03:22.000 --> 0:03:25.880 the killings. We're stake side of the case is to 0:03:25.919 --> 0:03:31.280 stay ready to call another witness. Special Prosecutor and jaw 0:03:31.320 --> 0:03:34.680 Kineppa call Special Agent John Jenkins of the Ohio Bureau 0:03:34.720 --> 0:03:39.760 of Criminal Investigations more commonly known as the BCI. Jenkins 0:03:39.800 --> 0:03:42.680 sports a trimmed goatee and looks every bit the veteran 0:03:42.720 --> 0:03:46.960 investigator he is. In twenty sixteen, just four months after 0:03:47.000 --> 0:03:51.520 the brutal murders, Jenkins interviewed the Wagner family's father, Billy. 0:03:52.120 --> 0:03:55.360 You can find Billy Wagner's raw audio of his conversation 0:03:55.400 --> 0:03:58.640 with special agents on our Apple Plus True Crime subscription. 0:03:58.680 --> 0:04:02.920 Page to that page is included in this episode's description. 0:04:06.280 --> 0:04:08.920 But today's attention turned to a police interview with the 0:04:08.920 --> 0:04:12.440 defendant's father, Billy Wagner. He was best friends with one 0:04:12.440 --> 0:04:14.720 of the victims, Chris Roden. I mean his interview, he 0:04:14.840 --> 0:04:18.120 provide some insights that could not only help the prosecution, 0:04:18.279 --> 0:04:22.520 but could also be useful for the defense. BCI agents 0:04:22.520 --> 0:04:26.200 had spent months trying to speak to Billy Wagner. Jenkins 0:04:26.240 --> 0:04:30.039 testified that Wagner seemed to be avoiding them. We want 0:04:30.040 --> 0:04:31.680 to talk to him because of the fact of his 0:04:31.800 --> 0:04:37.760 relationship with and Hannah, but also weird started to at 0:04:37.760 --> 0:04:40.640 this time get tips and leaves that there might have 0:04:40.720 --> 0:04:46.039 been some issues with some custody reference and that task 0:04:46.120 --> 0:04:49.480 became difficult due to the fact that when we stopped 0:04:49.480 --> 0:04:53.800 by the house, Billy wasn't always there. In September of 0:04:53.839 --> 0:04:57.919 twenty sixteen, BCI agents finally checked down Billy Wagner outside 0:04:57.920 --> 0:05:03.080 a grocery store. It was this interview with Billy Wagner recording. Yes, 0:05:03.120 --> 0:05:07.240 it was audio recorded. If this time you runner, I 0:05:07.240 --> 0:05:10.839 would like to play that recording for the journey. I 0:05:10.920 --> 0:05:14.159 just want to talk with you about the road murders, okay, 0:05:14.320 --> 0:05:18.400 and so, um, you know, we've been out talking with people, 0:05:19.080 --> 0:05:22.080 you know, all kinds of you know, tips get called 0:05:22.120 --> 0:05:25.839 in our office and all that, and so your name 0:05:25.880 --> 0:05:28.279 has come up and you know, and tips and things 0:05:28.279 --> 0:05:29.760 like that. So we just want to tie I find 0:05:29.760 --> 0:05:32.280 whatever you want to. Just be honest with us. I'll 0:05:32.320 --> 0:05:33.880 tell you whatever I can do to help get out. 0:05:34.320 --> 0:05:38.080 As the audio recordings began, Jenkins, wearing a blue blazer 0:05:38.080 --> 0:05:40.479 and white shirt, lowered his head and sat listening to 0:05:40.520 --> 0:05:45.240 the conversation. Billy Wagner was first asked about his relationship 0:05:45.279 --> 0:05:50.320 with Chris Roden Senior. Wagner insisted he and victim Chris 0:05:50.400 --> 0:05:54.400 Rodin were very close. You know, Chris was my best friend, 0:05:54.480 --> 0:05:58.080 all right, man, how you know we run around all 0:05:58.080 --> 0:06:00.240 the time. But we want to talk about career. Chris 0:06:00.240 --> 0:06:02.760 don't talk. He didn't tell nobody nothing. He gave me 0:06:02.800 --> 0:06:04.640 the business to himself. And I want to take you 0:06:04.640 --> 0:06:06.280 straight up. I don't care what he done. He was 0:06:06.400 --> 0:06:09.160 my friend. He he done everything for me. Okay, you know, 0:06:09.320 --> 0:06:12.360 and Chris growed up hard, I mean scroubs for everything. 0:06:12.360 --> 0:06:14.760 He had worked his ass off and he worked every day. 0:06:15.080 --> 0:06:16.839 You know, his shit. They're making him out look at 0:06:16.880 --> 0:06:19.960 some damn big gangsters, a bunch of shit. Okay, okay, 0:06:20.040 --> 0:06:21.800 And now I wanted to talk with the other thing. 0:06:22.279 --> 0:06:27.279 You know, he wasn't no saying, I say, but Chris 0:06:27.400 --> 0:06:29.520 never hurt nobody. I'll tell you whatever I can do 0:06:29.560 --> 0:06:32.320 to help get out. And we're not concerned about anything 0:06:32.320 --> 0:06:34.680 other than the murders. So you know, we've talked with 0:06:34.720 --> 0:06:37.880 different people. Different people have different involvement. You know. You 0:06:37.920 --> 0:06:40.920 know you've you've read the paper. Uh, you know you've 0:06:40.920 --> 0:06:43.000 seen the news. I'm not worried about all that. I'll 0:06:43.040 --> 0:06:44.960 tell you whatever you need to know. Okay. I'm just saying, 0:06:45.200 --> 0:06:47.960 you know, there was gross down I'm want to take 0:06:48.080 --> 0:06:50.359 us off and no, right off the bat that you 0:06:50.440 --> 0:06:53.719 didn't know Chris a right. Most of the shit they're 0:06:53.720 --> 0:06:56.800 talking about it with a bunch of bullshit life. I mean, 0:06:57.200 --> 0:07:00.680 Chris he'd give you the shirt off. He's well, we've 0:07:00.720 --> 0:07:03.840 heard that, you know. He you know, he was absolutely 0:07:04.520 --> 0:07:07.279 you know, we're what nobody else like him? Oh, Chris, 0:07:07.760 --> 0:07:10.800 like I said, he is my best friend. Wagner also 0:07:10.880 --> 0:07:13.480 said he and Chris Rodin had spoken the night he 0:07:13.520 --> 0:07:16.640 was killed. Last time my talk came and he's saying, 0:07:16.720 --> 0:07:20.720 go all right, was the night before all happened, and 0:07:20.720 --> 0:07:23.120 I said, hey, man, I'll folk he's more. And then 0:07:23.360 --> 0:07:26.720 next morning, you know, all hell broke. Los BCI agents 0:07:26.600 --> 0:07:30.239 asked Wagner who he thought committed the murderers. Billy Wagner 0:07:30.280 --> 0:07:33.280 floated the possibility that Chris Roden Senior might have vowed 0:07:33.320 --> 0:07:36.760 money to drug dealers. I ain't a bunch of hell 0:07:36.840 --> 0:07:42.160 billys do something like that. And well, you know, sorry, 0:07:42.200 --> 0:07:47.560 never convinced me. You know, hat's like some fielteen to six. Okay, 0:07:47.720 --> 0:07:51.080 but your bottom feeding funds pitches right, Well yeah, you know, 0:07:51.160 --> 0:07:55.600 your bottom feeders. I mean every damn one up. I 0:07:55.680 --> 0:07:58.160 mean they're on that freaking ship. And I mean it 0:07:58.320 --> 0:08:00.800 killed r Dan Braham off the five up. Sure, and 0:08:01.120 --> 0:08:03.720 you know I hold Chrid, you know, got to fuck 0:08:03.800 --> 0:08:07.360 you know, shouldn't suck around fact shit you know, because 0:08:07.360 --> 0:08:11.520 it just and it ain't too much. You know who cared? 0:08:11.680 --> 0:08:13.800 You know what happens to the dumb ass it's doing it, 0:08:14.200 --> 0:08:17.920 but you know it's a ship that they did. Investigators 0:08:17.960 --> 0:08:21.280 again press Billy Wagner about his relationship with victim Chris 0:08:21.360 --> 0:08:24.880 Roden Senior, specifically if they'd gotten into a fight a 0:08:24.880 --> 0:08:29.080 few weeks prior to the murders. We had heard, uh, 0:08:29.440 --> 0:08:32.160 someone had called and said and then listen, I'm not 0:08:32.240 --> 0:08:34.920 trying to I don't care. I don't care what you heard. 0:08:34.920 --> 0:08:37.200 What are you play it on me? Day? Is that 0:08:37.360 --> 0:08:39.680 you or Chris actually got into a fight about a 0:08:39.679 --> 0:08:42.880 week or two prior to the murders and said that 0:08:42.960 --> 0:08:47.400 you'd pulled a gun on him. No, absolutely not, didn't happen. 0:08:47.520 --> 0:08:50.720 Good nap, Okay, Well, no, it's just saying that you've 0:08:50.760 --> 0:08:52.760 got into an argument with now and then you sort 0:08:52.760 --> 0:08:54.640 of then you pulled a gun on him now and 0:08:54.880 --> 0:08:58.640 you said, yeah, I don't care anything about Chris. Throughout 0:08:58.640 --> 0:09:02.200 the nearly two hour conversa station, Wagner tried repeatedly to 0:09:02.200 --> 0:09:06.000 shift the investigator's attention away from himself and his family. 0:09:07.520 --> 0:09:10.599 You're looking in the wrong damn direction. You need to 0:09:10.640 --> 0:09:14.480 be going to every way. At one point, Billy Wagner 0:09:14.520 --> 0:09:17.840 even mentioned he'd heard Hannah Rodin was seeing a sheriff 0:09:18.080 --> 0:09:20.840 and said someone had seen a sheriff's car parked on 0:09:20.960 --> 0:09:25.400 Union Hill Road. Somebody said that she was singing a 0:09:25.520 --> 0:09:28.160 deput sheriff up here in Waverley. I don't know who 0:09:28.160 --> 0:09:30.520 he is, and he every time I heard that there 0:09:30.640 --> 0:09:32.400 was a sheriff sitting at the end of Union Hill 0:09:32.440 --> 0:09:35.480 all night. So I don't know if that's I don't know, 0:09:36.160 --> 0:09:39.280 but that's just what I heard. Later, when agents mentioned 0:09:39.280 --> 0:09:43.280 the marijuana growing on Chris Roden's property, Billy Wagner denied 0:09:43.320 --> 0:09:46.520 any involvement in the drug business. Now, other people have 0:09:46.600 --> 0:09:50.840 told us that they thought that you and Chris were 0:09:50.840 --> 0:09:55.280 business partners. No, now, if Chris you know now, I 0:09:55.360 --> 0:09:57.559 don't bullshit Chris. I don't care what Chris asked me 0:09:57.640 --> 0:09:59.839 to do. Yeah, if he asked me to do something, 0:10:00.120 --> 0:10:02.800 I'm good for him because he'd do anything for me, right, 0:10:02.880 --> 0:10:06.600 you know, he You just don't you don't want You 0:10:06.600 --> 0:10:09.920 can understand that, I understand if you know for he 0:10:10.240 --> 0:10:14.200 well me Christmas, you know, like I said, we're daylight 0:10:14.360 --> 0:10:17.679 dark all right, But well, you know pretty much. You know, 0:10:18.440 --> 0:10:20.320 if he want to go do something, we go. If 0:10:20.360 --> 0:10:21.880 I want to go do something, he can go with me. 0:10:22.040 --> 0:10:25.720 You know, it didn't matter. So but so you never 0:10:25.760 --> 0:10:28.280 hold any weed for him? No, No, I hold a 0:10:28.280 --> 0:10:30.160 lot of cars for him, hauld a lot of cars, 0:10:30.480 --> 0:10:33.440 like would you hold him round go down drear down 0:10:33.480 --> 0:10:35.160 there and co parks and get him for him and 0:10:35.160 --> 0:10:39.400 bring him up. Investigators returned to rumors of illegal drugs 0:10:39.480 --> 0:10:42.319 and a possible drug deal that Chris Roden Senior was 0:10:42.360 --> 0:10:46.800 potentially involved with, and who Billy Wagner alleged might have 0:10:46.800 --> 0:10:50.080 had a reason to kill Chris Roden Senior. It's important 0:10:50.120 --> 0:10:53.920 to note that George Wagner's allegations against Skid Montgomery are 0:10:54.000 --> 0:10:58.720 not substantiated. Here's Special Prosecutor Angie Kaneppa picking up her 0:10:58.800 --> 0:11:02.920 questioning of h and J. Nkins. There's talk in during 0:11:02.960 --> 0:11:07.920 that conversation between you and mister Wagner, and he keeps 0:11:07.920 --> 0:11:12.440 referring to a person named Latham. Yes, that's correct, and 0:11:12.559 --> 0:11:17.240 can you tell us who Latham is? Sure? So that 0:11:17.520 --> 0:11:20.960 during that interview, mister Wagner, as you've heard, but would 0:11:21.040 --> 0:11:25.559 keep referring to an individual name La Latham and basically 0:11:25.640 --> 0:11:28.920 who he was referring to as an individual named Skid Montgomery. 0:11:29.720 --> 0:11:33.440 Skid Montgomery lives in around the Lathamrea owns a lot 0:11:33.440 --> 0:11:36.640 of property in the in the Pike County area, and 0:11:36.920 --> 0:11:39.959 we'd learned through the investigation that there was always rumor 0:11:40.360 --> 0:11:44.680 that Skid Montgomery was a big, large scale marijuana dealer 0:11:45.200 --> 0:11:49.600 and that he would put hits out on people and 0:11:50.920 --> 0:11:55.160 especial agent Jenkins obviously, Billy talked to you about an 0:11:55.200 --> 0:12:00.040 alleged business deal where Chris was expected to get a 0:12:00.840 --> 0:12:08.240 large chunk of marijuana and indicated that it would represent 0:12:08.320 --> 0:12:09.959 a lot of money and they would put people out 0:12:09.960 --> 0:12:14.320 of business. Correct, that's correct, Okay, and specifically indicated that 0:12:14.400 --> 0:12:17.920 he felt that that would be upsetting to Latham slash 0:12:18.160 --> 0:12:24.960 Skid mcgomy. That's correct. Yes, here's Stephanie and Jeff. It's 0:12:25.160 --> 0:12:29.840 very compelling to hear the voice of accused father Billy Wagner. 0:12:30.000 --> 0:12:33.680 Hearing this interview that has been spoken about so often 0:12:34.240 --> 0:12:37.920 was fascinating. Some people say that he was rambling in 0:12:38.000 --> 0:12:42.559 this interview and trying to lead investigators in a different 0:12:42.559 --> 0:12:46.839 direction and throw some tidbits at them to get them 0:12:46.880 --> 0:12:50.280 off his track, but frankly, in listening to it, I 0:12:50.280 --> 0:12:53.080 thought he felt pretty common cooperative. He was just being 0:12:53.080 --> 0:12:56.679 stopped outside of a grocery store and cut two. He's 0:12:56.720 --> 0:13:00.800 in a two hour interview. Based on what we've heard 0:13:00.800 --> 0:13:03.200 about the Wagger's movements after the murders, I think it 0:13:03.240 --> 0:13:06.360 stands to reason that they probably weren't anticipating talking to 0:13:06.440 --> 0:13:09.120 law enforcement at some point and probably had a bit 0:13:09.120 --> 0:13:12.280 of a script or a plan for when that did happen. 0:13:12.920 --> 0:13:16.920 I mean, because Billy very quickly was throwing out unsubstantiated 0:13:16.960 --> 0:13:20.840 rumors about nineteen year old victim Hannah may Or, pointing 0:13:20.960 --> 0:13:24.080 away from himself towards the GROW operation and even bringing 0:13:24.120 --> 0:13:27.200 up Skid Montgomery like he already had a litany of 0:13:27.240 --> 0:13:29.480 things that he was going to kind of try to 0:13:29.520 --> 0:13:31.640 throw at the police to get the scent off of 0:13:31.800 --> 0:13:36.000 him and his family. Interesting that you should say that, 0:13:36.040 --> 0:13:38.640 because yes, you're right. On the one hand, he's saying 0:13:38.679 --> 0:13:43.080 that Chris Senior was his very best friend and he 0:13:43.080 --> 0:13:45.640 would do anything for him, and that Chris would do 0:13:45.720 --> 0:13:48.600 anything for him, and to your point, on the other hand, 0:13:48.679 --> 0:13:51.200 he's essentially throwing him under the bus by pointing to 0:13:51.240 --> 0:13:55.520 the Grow operation and denying that there was ever a 0:13:55.559 --> 0:13:59.920 big fight between them regarding custody and kind of bringing 0:14:00.120 --> 0:14:03.560 him again back to Skid Montgomery. Even just hearing the 0:14:03.640 --> 0:14:08.520 name Latham aka Skid Montgomery, and it legitimately makes the 0:14:08.559 --> 0:14:11.080 hairs in the back of my next stand up because 0:14:11.320 --> 0:14:14.720 we've been given this name so many times, both from 0:14:14.800 --> 0:14:18.480 listeners and people in and around the area. And again, 0:14:18.640 --> 0:14:22.840 Skid Montgomery is a very prominent landowner in Pike County 0:14:23.240 --> 0:14:27.640 and now here's Billy basically accusing him. Is this just 0:14:27.960 --> 0:14:31.880 Billy getting him off his tracks, or is it possible 0:14:31.880 --> 0:14:33.400 that there are some truth to that. I have to 0:14:33.440 --> 0:14:36.800 assume that we're going to hear from Skid Montgomery at 0:14:36.880 --> 0:14:39.520 some point, and that he'll be a witness. I also 0:14:39.600 --> 0:14:43.560 thought it was interesting that Billy says there was a 0:14:43.600 --> 0:14:46.600 sheriff at the bottom of the road that whole night 0:14:46.760 --> 0:14:49.320 that he had heard rumors of. That is he referring 0:14:49.360 --> 0:14:51.920 to Sheriff Reader, And if so, I also have to 0:14:51.920 --> 0:14:56.320 assume that Sheriff Reader at some point will testify at 0:14:56.360 --> 0:14:59.280 this trial because his name comes up all the time, 0:14:59.320 --> 0:15:03.640 and as we know, he's currently serving time for unrelated 0:15:03.760 --> 0:15:10.200 charges for taking drug money illegally and using it for gambling, 0:15:10.600 --> 0:15:15.160 again completely unrelated. Nobody has associated him with these murders, 0:15:15.880 --> 0:15:18.320 but again these names keep coming up. Well stuff. This 0:15:18.400 --> 0:15:21.560 is certainly an interesting preview of the trial to come, 0:15:21.600 --> 0:15:23.800 as we know Billy Wagner has pled not guilty and 0:15:23.840 --> 0:15:26.960 as a waiting trial, and so this is maybe just 0:15:27.080 --> 0:15:30.240 a little bit of a sneak peek at his upcoming 0:15:30.520 --> 0:15:34.240 legal proceedings. Also, even just him saying that me and 0:15:34.360 --> 0:15:38.720 Chris were best friends and that we were like daylight 0:15:38.800 --> 0:15:41.680 and dark. I thought that would have such a curious statement, 0:15:42.080 --> 0:15:48.880 which one does he see himself as. Despite efforts to 0:15:48.920 --> 0:15:52.360 shift the focus away from himself and his family, investigators 0:15:52.360 --> 0:15:55.400 walked away from their conversation with Billy Wagner with more 0:15:55.480 --> 0:16:01.000 questions than answers. Here's legal analyst Mike Allen. He didn't 0:16:01.000 --> 0:16:03.800 help himself listening to it. I really don't know what 0:16:03.880 --> 0:16:06.360 he was trying to do. I mean, obviously he was 0:16:06.400 --> 0:16:09.960 trying to shift the focus away from him and his family. 0:16:10.000 --> 0:16:13.720 I don't think he was very successful with it. That 0:16:13.840 --> 0:16:18.200 happens all the time. These people, some of them, they 0:16:18.280 --> 0:16:21.680 deceived themselves into thinking that, you know, they're the smartest 0:16:21.680 --> 0:16:24.840 criminal in the world. And you know they'll say, well, 0:16:25.080 --> 0:16:28.880 if I say this to the police, or if I 0:16:28.920 --> 0:16:31.520 say something else to the police, there, that'll throw him 0:16:31.560 --> 0:16:37.280 off the trail. Doesn't happen. We're going to take a break. 0:16:37.560 --> 0:16:43.720 We'll be back in a moment. Oh. I'm Carol Fisher, 0:16:43.880 --> 0:16:47.120 and I'm hosting a podcast called The Girlfriends. Back in 0:16:47.160 --> 0:16:50.160 the nineteen nineties in Las Vegas, a few of us 0:16:50.240 --> 0:16:55.280 dated the most eligible bachelor in town, Bob. He spoke 0:16:55.440 --> 0:17:01.400 several languages, he did medical missionary work, and he was Jewish. 0:17:01.800 --> 0:17:06.479 He was perfect on paper, but he wasn't. He really wasn't. 0:17:06.760 --> 0:17:11.119 He shouted to the point she went unconscious. Bob could 0:17:11.200 --> 0:17:15.040 lie about anything, but only takes the one time when 0:17:15.240 --> 0:17:19.280 somebody ends up dead. Unfortunately for Bob, us girlfriends know 0:17:19.400 --> 0:17:21.879 how to fight back. I wanted him to pay for 0:17:22.040 --> 0:17:25.240 his crime. He needed to be put to justice. I'll 0:17:25.240 --> 0:17:26.600 be honest with you. If I saw him right now, 0:17:26.600 --> 0:17:28.959 I'd spit on him. I would call him and I 0:17:28.960 --> 0:17:31.800 would say, I know you killed my sister. I will 0:17:31.880 --> 0:17:34.840 always hound you and haunt you. You can listen to 0:17:34.880 --> 0:17:39.480 The Girlfriends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever 0:17:39.560 --> 0:17:43.159 you get your podcasts. Hello, Hello, Malcolm Glabell here, host 0:17:43.200 --> 0:17:46.240 of Revisionist History, a show about the overlooked and the 0:17:46.320 --> 0:17:51.800 misunderstood stories you won't hear anywhere else, like our ongoing 0:17:52.200 --> 0:17:56.240 obsessive campaign to blow up the world's most focus college 0:17:56.320 --> 0:17:59.920 ranking system. Why not just throw in a few extras 0:18:01.520 --> 0:18:04.919 or witness me after years of fancy public speaking, learning 0:18:05.160 --> 0:18:08.240 that I kind of have to start over. The tone 0:18:08.440 --> 0:18:10.959 that you had throughout the debate was very similar to 0:18:11.000 --> 0:18:13.560 some of the students that I do work with, and 0:18:13.600 --> 0:18:15.640 that's what I teach them not to do. We're making 0:18:15.720 --> 0:18:19.040 more revisionist history for you this year than ever from 0:18:19.040 --> 0:18:25.000 places all across this great country emergency rooms, huge theaters, 0:18:25.000 --> 0:18:28.600 small towns, and shooting righteous and you want to put 0:18:28.640 --> 0:18:31.480 your thumb up like the US. Are you gonna pull 0:18:31.520 --> 0:18:35.119 the trigger with this finger here? Okay? Listen to Revisionist 0:18:35.200 --> 0:18:39.600 History on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you 0:18:39.720 --> 0:18:44.640 get your podcasts from iHeart podcasts. Whitney, Hell is going 0:18:44.680 --> 0:18:48.520 on here? Everyone has their limits. I never confronted a 0:18:48.560 --> 0:18:50.520 situation like this. I just thought it was just a 0:18:50.560 --> 0:18:54.960 really terrible immoral thing align they won't cross. I was stunned. 0:18:55.119 --> 0:18:58.200 And I just said, no, we're killing people. You may 0:18:58.280 --> 0:19:01.560 never have to face that decision when you find yourself 0:19:01.600 --> 0:19:05.440 at that line out ricin ars ricin, and somebody needs 0:19:05.480 --> 0:19:08.600 to just for once give everybody the whole truth. I'm like, 0:19:08.800 --> 0:19:13.080 this is evil and the only person who can sound 0:19:13.119 --> 0:19:16.840 the alarm is you. I wasn't just going to sit silently. 0:19:16.960 --> 0:19:22.119 Buy from iHeart Podcasts. These are the whistleblowers. If you 0:19:22.160 --> 0:19:24.480 are disloyal thinks are going to happen to this week 0:19:24.520 --> 0:19:28.680 out disgrace to our gun. Evil place should be prosecute. 0:19:29.880 --> 0:19:33.600 When power corrupts, conscience is the last line of defense. 0:19:34.600 --> 0:19:38.400 I'm Miles Taylor. Listen to the Whistleblowers on the iHeartRadio app, 0:19:38.600 --> 0:19:47.520 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. My name's 0:19:47.560 --> 0:19:51.840 Laverne Cox. I'm an actress, producer, fashionista, and host of 0:19:51.960 --> 0:19:54.840 The Laverne Cox Show. You may remember my award winning 0:19:54.880 --> 0:19:59.159 first season. I've been pretty busy. There's always time to 0:19:59.160 --> 0:20:02.720 touch incredible about important things. People like me have been 0:20:02.720 --> 0:20:05.280 screaming for years. We've got to watch the Supreme Court. 0:20:05.359 --> 0:20:07.800 What they're doing is wrong, what they're doing is evil. 0:20:07.840 --> 0:20:10.760 They will take things away and I can only hope 0:20:10.800 --> 0:20:13.560 that Dobbs is that like Pearl Harbor moment, girl, you 0:20:13.640 --> 0:20:16.080 and I both know what it took to just get 0:20:16.119 --> 0:20:18.280 through the day in New York City and get home 0:20:18.359 --> 0:20:21.320 in one piece. And so the fact that we're here 0:20:21.440 --> 0:20:24.119 and what you've achieved and what I've achieved, you know, 0:20:24.520 --> 0:20:28.600 that's momentous. It's not just sitting around complaining about some bills. 0:20:28.720 --> 0:20:31.200 The only reason that you might think, as Chase said, 0:20:31.240 --> 0:20:34.640 that we're always miserable is because people are constantly attacking 0:20:34.720 --> 0:20:37.320 us and we're constantly noticing it. Listen to the Laverne 0:20:37.320 --> 0:20:41.320 Cox Show on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever 0:20:41.440 --> 0:20:45.520 you get your podcast. Be sure to subscribe and share. 0:20:53.160 --> 0:20:55.919 The investigative trail was beginning to point directly to the 0:20:55.960 --> 0:21:00.920 Wagner family, though not necessarily to defendant George Wagner. Here's 0:21:00.960 --> 0:21:05.840 longtime investigative reporter James Pilcher and Cincinnati Now with Local twelve. 0:21:06.640 --> 0:21:08.960 When are they going to point to George being part 0:21:08.960 --> 0:21:12.600 of this conspiracy? Because none of the physical evidence that 0:21:12.680 --> 0:21:16.159 they presented early on had any of the Wagners to 0:21:16.840 --> 0:21:20.600 any of these crime scenes. Outside the courtroom, questions were 0:21:20.600 --> 0:21:24.120 being asked about the prosecution's ability to link George Wagner 0:21:24.160 --> 0:21:27.040 to the murders. That to me is the major issue here, right. 0:21:27.320 --> 0:21:29.919 I've been going for days in this trial, lots of evidence, 0:21:30.000 --> 0:21:33.560 lots of witnesses, but honestly, we have yet to hear 0:21:33.600 --> 0:21:38.120 any connection of George the fourth to these crimes. Following 0:21:38.160 --> 0:21:42.600 Special Agent John Jenkins testimony, the defense requested for the 0:21:42.680 --> 0:21:45.639 third time in the trial there should be a mistrial. 0:21:46.040 --> 0:21:49.520 The defense argued the tapes of Special Agent jenkins interview 0:21:49.520 --> 0:21:52.399 with Billy Wagner should never have been played before the jury. 0:21:53.080 --> 0:21:55.520 The defense argued the tapes had nothing to do with 0:21:55.560 --> 0:21:58.960 George Wagner and that the interview did not establish any 0:21:58.960 --> 0:22:02.840 proof of a CONSPI years to commit aggravated murder. Special 0:22:02.880 --> 0:22:06.280 Prosecutor Angiekuneppa said that wasn't why the state played the 0:22:06.320 --> 0:22:10.440 interview with Billy Wagner at his son George's trial. Instead, 0:22:10.600 --> 0:22:13.800 she wanted the jury to see how BCI investigators ended 0:22:13.880 --> 0:22:17.399 up focusing on the Wagner family. Of course, he's a 0:22:17.600 --> 0:22:21.600 really emotions previously made on the record for miss trial 0:22:21.760 --> 0:22:25.080 and to include the tape or to strike the tape, 0:22:25.920 --> 0:22:28.359 is defense council and the state ready to bring the 0:22:28.440 --> 0:22:32.399 jury up. Judge during ruled against the motion for a mistrial, 0:22:32.640 --> 0:22:36.360 and the prosecution called for the second time. BCI analyst 0:22:36.520 --> 0:22:40.159 Julia Evislage. The agent has long brown hair and is 0:22:40.160 --> 0:22:43.840 wearing a maroon red jacket. Evislage is sworn in and 0:22:43.920 --> 0:22:48.359 questioned by Special Prosecutor Angie Kaneppa. Good afternoon. How are 0:22:48.359 --> 0:22:50.760 you good afternoon? If you want to go ahead and 0:22:50.800 --> 0:22:54.679 state your name again just for the record, Julia Evislage, okay, 0:22:54.760 --> 0:22:59.080 And you previously testified in this case. Correct, that's correct, okay. 0:22:59.240 --> 0:23:03.920 And we've already discussed with you your current role at 0:23:03.960 --> 0:23:08.640 the Bureau of Criminal Investigations and your work in this case, 0:23:08.760 --> 0:23:13.960 specifically in analyzing records and other things that came that 0:23:14.080 --> 0:23:20.480 were obtained personnant to both subpoenas and search warrants. Correct, yes, okay. 0:23:21.119 --> 0:23:24.320 And can you tell us when you go through records 0:23:24.359 --> 0:23:27.600 and such, is that information that you then share with 0:23:27.720 --> 0:23:32.359 the investigative team, yes, okay, and in your experiences that 0:23:32.480 --> 0:23:36.919 then inform their investigation in people that they're willing in 0:23:37.000 --> 0:23:40.440 or willing out. Yes, okay. And can you tell us, 0:23:40.840 --> 0:23:44.800 miss visual agent in this case, did you guys obtain 0:23:45.400 --> 0:23:50.080 Facebook records of the victims. Yes. One of our cyber 0:23:50.080 --> 0:23:54.240 crimes agents obtained a search warrant for all of the 0:23:54.359 --> 0:23:58.160 Facebook accounts of the victims, and we review those once 0:23:58.200 --> 0:24:03.360 the responses came in from Facebook. On the screen above evislage, 0:24:03.440 --> 0:24:06.760 prosecutors pull up a spreadsheet of messages taken from Hannah 0:24:06.840 --> 0:24:10.480 Roden's Facebook account. Each entry is labeled with the time 0:24:10.560 --> 0:24:15.360 and date of the exchange. During that review of those 0:24:16.119 --> 0:24:22.000 Facebook records, did you find information in the Facebook account 0:24:22.000 --> 0:24:27.120 belonging to Hannah May Roden? Yes? And can you tell 0:24:27.200 --> 0:24:30.720 us why were they noteworthy to you? When we first 0:24:30.760 --> 0:24:33.480 started looking at Hannah's Facebook, we found some statements in 0:24:33.520 --> 0:24:35.240 there and some of her messages that seemed to be 0:24:35.280 --> 0:24:38.400 in direct conflict with things that we had heard and interviews, 0:24:38.440 --> 0:24:42.520 particularly with Jake Wagner's interview, and we noted just different 0:24:42.920 --> 0:24:49.600 different statements about abuse in the relationship, issues with the 0:24:49.640 --> 0:24:52.520 Wagner's being controlling, things like that, and then just her 0:24:52.640 --> 0:24:56.119