1 00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:03,920 Speaker 1: The cheerleaders at a gym in Buffalo have been recording 2 00:00:03,960 --> 00:00:09,240 Speaker 1: themselves to make a new documentary where the news reporters 3 00:00:09,240 --> 00:00:13,160 Speaker 1: because one year ago a mass shooting changed their lives. 4 00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:15,400 Speaker 1: He just walked around shot all the black people. The 5 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:18,440 Speaker 1: cheer squad, most of whom are black, had to figure 6 00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:21,160 Speaker 1: out how to go on and how to compete. I 7 00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:23,840 Speaker 1: wanted to win for them more than anything this season. 8 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:28,640 Speaker 1: Listen to the embedded podcast from NPR within the iHeartRadio app, 9 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:32,720 Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Carol Fisher and 10 00:00:32,760 --> 00:00:36,800 Speaker 1: I'm hosting a podcast called The Girlfriends. It's Las Vegas, 11 00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:40,200 Speaker 1: it's the nineteen nineties, and it is time to find 12 00:00:40,240 --> 00:00:44,560 Speaker 1: a husband. There were four Jewish doctors who were felt 13 00:00:44,600 --> 00:00:48,040 Speaker 1: to be eligible bachelors. One of them was of the 14 00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:53,239 Speaker 1: Baron bat On paper he was perfect, but in reality, 15 00:00:53,440 --> 00:00:58,080 Speaker 1: this guy's a wacko. He shouted to the point went unconscious. 16 00:00:58,280 --> 00:01:00,560 Speaker 1: I would call him and I would say, I know 17 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:03,480 Speaker 1: you killed my sister. You can listen to The Girlfriends 18 00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:07,680 Speaker 1: on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get 19 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:12,600 Speaker 1: your podcasts from iHeart Podcasts and Nomadic Engine. The acclaimed 20 00:01:12,720 --> 00:01:17,279 Speaker 1: dramatic thriller returns after Shock season two. He's like a ghost. 21 00:01:17,440 --> 00:01:21,120 Speaker 1: We had an agreement to keep each other's secret. None 22 00:01:21,160 --> 00:01:23,160 Speaker 1: of you are making decisions to keep the rest of 23 00:01:23,240 --> 00:01:27,880 Speaker 1: us safe, which leaves me. I'm asking for your forgiveness. 24 00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:32,920 Speaker 1: After Shock season two, starring Sarah Wayne Kelly's, David Harbor 25 00:01:33,160 --> 00:01:35,840 Speaker 1: and Jeffrey Dean Morgan listened to after Shock on the 26 00:01:35,840 --> 00:01:40,840 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts? Hi, 27 00:01:41,120 --> 00:01:44,160 Speaker 1: I'm free and I'm rthy. We have spent the last 28 00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:47,160 Speaker 1: twenty years building and working at some of the largest 29 00:01:47,160 --> 00:01:50,200 Speaker 1: companies in the world. We worked with some remarkable people. 30 00:01:50,440 --> 00:01:52,920 Speaker 1: Rob mclenny. When I see the people of Wrexham, I 31 00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:55,360 Speaker 1: grew up exactly like them. Check out the art in 32 00:01:55,440 --> 00:02:00,440 Speaker 1: Trurom show. That is a R D HI and s 33 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:04,240 Speaker 1: R I R a M show. Listen to the arc 34 00:02:04,240 --> 00:02:08,200 Speaker 1: the Inustry I'm Show on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast Oh, 35 00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:14,799 Speaker 1: wherever you get to your podcast? Hey, No Billy sees 36 00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:19,960 Speaker 1: something like ed Yeah, we're convansoning ads like in sealteen six. 37 00:02:21,919 --> 00:02:24,200 Speaker 1: When are they going to point to George being part 38 00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:28,880 Speaker 1: of this conspiracy? Hannah replies, I won't sign papers ever. 39 00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:31,480 Speaker 1: It won't happen. They will have to kill me first. 40 00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:41,000 Speaker 1: This is the Piked and Massacre Return to Pike County 41 00:02:41,560 --> 00:02:47,399 Speaker 1: Season four, episode twelve, Closing in on the Wagners. I'm 42 00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:51,200 Speaker 1: Courtney Armstrong, a television producer at KATI Studios with Stephanie 43 00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:54,680 Speaker 1: Lydecker and Jeff Shane. It's the middle of George Wagner 44 00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:57,800 Speaker 1: the Fourth trial. It's important to note that George Wagner 45 00:02:57,880 --> 00:03:00,839 Speaker 1: the Fourth, along with his father Billy Wagner, whose trial 46 00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:04,560 Speaker 1: is upcoming, deny any wrongdoing and have pleaded not guilty 47 00:03:04,600 --> 00:03:09,400 Speaker 1: to all charges. So far, there's been hours of testimony 48 00:03:09,440 --> 00:03:12,600 Speaker 1: by investigators and relatives that have painted a very real 49 00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:16,320 Speaker 1: portrait of what the crime scenes look like. But while 50 00:03:16,360 --> 00:03:19,559 Speaker 1: prosecutors have laid out the grizzly details of the murderers, 51 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:21,960 Speaker 1: they have yet to connect George Wagner the Fourth to 52 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:25,880 Speaker 1: the killings. We're stake side of the case is to 53 00:03:25,919 --> 00:03:31,280 Speaker 1: stay ready to call another witness. Special Prosecutor and jaw 54 00:03:31,320 --> 00:03:34,680 Speaker 1: Kineppa call Special Agent John Jenkins of the Ohio Bureau 55 00:03:34,720 --> 00:03:39,760 Speaker 1: of Criminal Investigations more commonly known as the BCI. Jenkins 56 00:03:39,800 --> 00:03:42,680 Speaker 1: sports a trimmed goatee and looks every bit the veteran 57 00:03:42,720 --> 00:03:46,960 Speaker 1: investigator he is. In twenty sixteen, just four months after 58 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:51,520 Speaker 1: the brutal murders, Jenkins interviewed the Wagner family's father, Billy. 59 00:03:52,120 --> 00:03:55,360 Speaker 1: You can find Billy Wagner's raw audio of his conversation 60 00:03:55,400 --> 00:03:58,640 Speaker 1: with special agents on our Apple Plus True Crime subscription. 61 00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:02,920 Speaker 1: Page to that page is included in this episode's description. 62 00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:08,920 Speaker 1: But today's attention turned to a police interview with the 63 00:04:08,920 --> 00:04:12,440 Speaker 1: defendant's father, Billy Wagner. He was best friends with one 64 00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:14,720 Speaker 1: of the victims, Chris Roden. I mean his interview, he 65 00:04:14,840 --> 00:04:18,120 Speaker 1: provide some insights that could not only help the prosecution, 66 00:04:18,279 --> 00:04:22,520 Speaker 1: but could also be useful for the defense. BCI agents 67 00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:26,200 Speaker 1: had spent months trying to speak to Billy Wagner. Jenkins 68 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:30,039 Speaker 1: testified that Wagner seemed to be avoiding them. We want 69 00:04:30,040 --> 00:04:31,680 Speaker 1: to talk to him because of the fact of his 70 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:37,760 Speaker 1: relationship with and Hannah, but also weird started to at 71 00:04:37,760 --> 00:04:40,640 Speaker 1: this time get tips and leaves that there might have 72 00:04:40,720 --> 00:04:46,039 Speaker 1: been some issues with some custody reference and that task 73 00:04:46,120 --> 00:04:49,480 Speaker 1: became difficult due to the fact that when we stopped 74 00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:53,800 Speaker 1: by the house, Billy wasn't always there. In September of 75 00:04:53,839 --> 00:04:57,919 Speaker 1: twenty sixteen, BCI agents finally checked down Billy Wagner outside 76 00:04:57,920 --> 00:05:03,080 Speaker 1: a grocery store. It was this interview with Billy Wagner recording. Yes, 77 00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:07,240 Speaker 1: it was audio recorded. If this time you runner, I 78 00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:10,839 Speaker 1: would like to play that recording for the journey. I 79 00:05:10,920 --> 00:05:14,159 Speaker 1: just want to talk with you about the road murders, okay, 80 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:18,400 Speaker 1: and so, um, you know, we've been out talking with people, 81 00:05:19,080 --> 00:05:22,080 Speaker 1: you know, all kinds of you know, tips get called 82 00:05:22,120 --> 00:05:25,839 Speaker 1: in our office and all that, and so your name 83 00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:28,279 Speaker 1: has come up and you know, and tips and things 84 00:05:28,279 --> 00:05:29,760 Speaker 1: like that. So we just want to tie I find 85 00:05:29,760 --> 00:05:32,280 Speaker 1: whatever you want to. Just be honest with us. I'll 86 00:05:32,320 --> 00:05:33,880 Speaker 1: tell you whatever I can do to help get out. 87 00:05:34,320 --> 00:05:38,080 Speaker 1: As the audio recordings began, Jenkins, wearing a blue blazer 88 00:05:38,080 --> 00:05:40,479 Speaker 1: and white shirt, lowered his head and sat listening to 89 00:05:40,520 --> 00:05:45,240 Speaker 1: the conversation. Billy Wagner was first asked about his relationship 90 00:05:45,279 --> 00:05:50,320 Speaker 1: with Chris Roden Senior. Wagner insisted he and victim Chris 91 00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:54,400 Speaker 1: Rodin were very close. You know, Chris was my best friend, 92 00:05:54,480 --> 00:05:58,080 Speaker 1: all right, man, how you know we run around all 93 00:05:58,080 --> 00:06:00,240 Speaker 1: the time. But we want to talk about career. Chris 94 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:02,760 Speaker 1: don't talk. He didn't tell nobody nothing. He gave me 95 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:04,640 Speaker 1: the business to himself. And I want to take you 96 00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:06,280 Speaker 1: straight up. I don't care what he done. He was 97 00:06:06,400 --> 00:06:09,160 Speaker 1: my friend. He he done everything for me. Okay, you know, 98 00:06:09,320 --> 00:06:12,360 Speaker 1: and Chris growed up hard, I mean scroubs for everything. 99 00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:14,760 Speaker 1: He had worked his ass off and he worked every day. 100 00:06:15,080 --> 00:06:16,839 Speaker 1: You know, his shit. They're making him out look at 101 00:06:16,880 --> 00:06:19,960 Speaker 1: some damn big gangsters, a bunch of shit. Okay, okay, 102 00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:21,800 Speaker 1: And now I wanted to talk with the other thing. 103 00:06:22,279 --> 00:06:27,279 Speaker 1: You know, he wasn't no saying, I say, but Chris 104 00:06:27,400 --> 00:06:29,520 Speaker 1: never hurt nobody. I'll tell you whatever I can do 105 00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:32,320 Speaker 1: to help get out. And we're not concerned about anything 106 00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:34,680 Speaker 1: other than the murders. So you know, we've talked with 107 00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:37,880 Speaker 1: different people. Different people have different involvement. You know. You 108 00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:40,920 Speaker 1: know you've you've read the paper. Uh, you know you've 109 00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:43,000 Speaker 1: seen the news. I'm not worried about all that. I'll 110 00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:44,960 Speaker 1: tell you whatever you need to know. Okay. I'm just saying, 111 00:06:45,200 --> 00:06:47,960 Speaker 1: you know, there was gross down I'm want to take 112 00:06:48,080 --> 00:06:50,359 Speaker 1: us off and no, right off the bat that you 113 00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:53,719 Speaker 1: didn't know Chris a right. Most of the shit they're 114 00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:56,800 Speaker 1: talking about it with a bunch of bullshit life. I mean, 115 00:06:57,200 --> 00:07:00,680 Speaker 1: Chris he'd give you the shirt off. He's well, we've 116 00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:03,840 Speaker 1: heard that, you know. He you know, he was absolutely 117 00:07:04,520 --> 00:07:07,279 Speaker 1: you know, we're what nobody else like him? Oh, Chris, 118 00:07:07,760 --> 00:07:10,800 Speaker 1: like I said, he is my best friend. Wagner also 119 00:07:10,880 --> 00:07:13,480 Speaker 1: said he and Chris Rodin had spoken the night he 120 00:07:13,520 --> 00:07:16,640 Speaker 1: was killed. Last time my talk came and he's saying, 121 00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:20,720 Speaker 1: go all right, was the night before all happened, and 122 00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:23,120 Speaker 1: I said, hey, man, I'll folk he's more. And then 123 00:07:23,360 --> 00:07:26,720 Speaker 1: next morning, you know, all hell broke. Los BCI agents 124 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:30,239 Speaker 1: asked Wagner who he thought committed the murderers. Billy Wagner 125 00:07:30,280 --> 00:07:33,280 Speaker 1: floated the possibility that Chris Roden Senior might have vowed 126 00:07:33,320 --> 00:07:36,760 Speaker 1: money to drug dealers. I ain't a bunch of hell 127 00:07:36,840 --> 00:07:42,160 Speaker 1: billys do something like that. And well, you know, sorry, 128 00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:47,560 Speaker 1: never convinced me. You know, hat's like some fielteen to six. Okay, 129 00:07:47,720 --> 00:07:51,080 Speaker 1: but your bottom feeding funds pitches right, Well yeah, you know, 130 00:07:51,160 --> 00:07:55,600 Speaker 1: your bottom feeders. I mean every damn one up. I 131 00:07:55,680 --> 00:07:58,160 Speaker 1: mean they're on that freaking ship. And I mean it 132 00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:00,800 Speaker 1: killed r Dan Braham off the five up. Sure, and 133 00:08:01,120 --> 00:08:03,720 Speaker 1: you know I hold Chrid, you know, got to fuck 134 00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:07,360 Speaker 1: you know, shouldn't suck around fact shit you know, because 135 00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:11,520 Speaker 1: it just and it ain't too much. You know who cared? 136 00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:13,800 Speaker 1: You know what happens to the dumb ass it's doing it, 137 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:17,920 Speaker 1: but you know it's a ship that they did. Investigators 138 00:08:17,960 --> 00:08:21,280 Speaker 1: again press Billy Wagner about his relationship with victim Chris 139 00:08:21,360 --> 00:08:24,880 Speaker 1: Roden Senior, specifically if they'd gotten into a fight a 140 00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:29,080 Speaker 1: few weeks prior to the murders. We had heard, uh, 141 00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:32,160 Speaker 1: someone had called and said and then listen, I'm not 142 00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:34,920 Speaker 1: trying to I don't care. I don't care what you heard. 143 00:08:34,920 --> 00:08:37,200 Speaker 1: What are you play it on me? Day? Is that 144 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:39,680 Speaker 1: you or Chris actually got into a fight about a 145 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:42,880 Speaker 1: week or two prior to the murders and said that 146 00:08:42,960 --> 00:08:47,400 Speaker 1: you'd pulled a gun on him. No, absolutely not, didn't happen. 147 00:08:47,520 --> 00:08:50,720 Speaker 1: Good nap, Okay, Well, no, it's just saying that you've 148 00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:52,760 Speaker 1: got into an argument with now and then you sort 149 00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:54,640 Speaker 1: of then you pulled a gun on him now and 150 00:08:54,880 --> 00:08:58,640 Speaker 1: you said, yeah, I don't care anything about Chris. Throughout 151 00:08:58,640 --> 00:09:02,200 Speaker 1: the nearly two hour conversa station, Wagner tried repeatedly to 152 00:09:02,200 --> 00:09:06,000 Speaker 1: shift the investigator's attention away from himself and his family. 153 00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:10,599 Speaker 1: You're looking in the wrong damn direction. You need to 154 00:09:10,640 --> 00:09:14,480 Speaker 1: be going to every way. At one point, Billy Wagner 155 00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:17,840 Speaker 1: even mentioned he'd heard Hannah Rodin was seeing a sheriff 156 00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:20,840 Speaker 1: and said someone had seen a sheriff's car parked on 157 00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:25,400 Speaker 1: Union Hill Road. Somebody said that she was singing a 158 00:09:25,520 --> 00:09:28,160 Speaker 1: deput sheriff up here in Waverley. I don't know who 159 00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:30,520 Speaker 1: he is, and he every time I heard that there 160 00:09:30,640 --> 00:09:32,400 Speaker 1: was a sheriff sitting at the end of Union Hill 161 00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:35,480 Speaker 1: all night. So I don't know if that's I don't know, 162 00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:39,280 Speaker 1: but that's just what I heard. Later, when agents mentioned 163 00:09:39,280 --> 00:09:43,280 Speaker 1: the marijuana growing on Chris Roden's property, Billy Wagner denied 164 00:09:43,320 --> 00:09:46,520 Speaker 1: any involvement in the drug business. Now, other people have 165 00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:50,840 Speaker 1: told us that they thought that you and Chris were 166 00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:55,280 Speaker 1: business partners. No, now, if Chris you know now, I 167 00:09:55,360 --> 00:09:57,559 Speaker 1: don't bullshit Chris. I don't care what Chris asked me 168 00:09:57,640 --> 00:09:59,839 Speaker 1: to do. Yeah, if he asked me to do something, 169 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:02,800 Speaker 1: I'm good for him because he'd do anything for me, right, 170 00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:06,600 Speaker 1: you know, he You just don't you don't want You 171 00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:09,920 Speaker 1: can understand that, I understand if you know for he 172 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:14,200 Speaker 1: well me Christmas, you know, like I said, we're daylight 173 00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:17,679 Speaker 1: dark all right, But well, you know pretty much. You know, 174 00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:20,320 Speaker 1: if he want to go do something, we go. If 175 00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:21,880 Speaker 1: I want to go do something, he can go with me. 176 00:10:22,040 --> 00:10:25,720 Speaker 1: You know, it didn't matter. So but so you never 177 00:10:25,760 --> 00:10:28,280 Speaker 1: hold any weed for him? No, No, I hold a 178 00:10:28,280 --> 00:10:30,160 Speaker 1: lot of cars for him, hauld a lot of cars, 179 00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:33,440 Speaker 1: like would you hold him round go down drear down 180 00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:35,160 Speaker 1: there and co parks and get him for him and 181 00:10:35,160 --> 00:10:39,400 Speaker 1: bring him up. Investigators returned to rumors of illegal drugs 182 00:10:39,480 --> 00:10:42,319 Speaker 1: and a possible drug deal that Chris Roden Senior was 183 00:10:42,360 --> 00:10:46,800 Speaker 1: potentially involved with, and who Billy Wagner alleged might have 184 00:10:46,800 --> 00:10:50,080 Speaker 1: had a reason to kill Chris Roden Senior. It's important 185 00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:53,920 Speaker 1: to note that George Wagner's allegations against Skid Montgomery are 186 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:58,720 Speaker 1: not substantiated. Here's Special Prosecutor Angie Kaneppa picking up her 187 00:10:58,800 --> 00:11:02,920 Speaker 1: questioning of h and J. Nkins. There's talk in during 188 00:11:02,960 --> 00:11:07,920 Speaker 1: that conversation between you and mister Wagner, and he keeps 189 00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:12,440 Speaker 1: referring to a person named Latham. Yes, that's correct, and 190 00:11:12,559 --> 00:11:17,240 Speaker 1: can you tell us who Latham is? Sure? So that 191 00:11:17,520 --> 00:11:20,960 Speaker 1: during that interview, mister Wagner, as you've heard, but would 192 00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:25,559 Speaker 1: keep referring to an individual name La Latham and basically 193 00:11:25,640 --> 00:11:28,920 Speaker 1: who he was referring to as an individual named Skid Montgomery. 194 00:11:29,720 --> 00:11:33,440 Speaker 1: Skid Montgomery lives in around the Lathamrea owns a lot 195 00:11:33,440 --> 00:11:36,640 Speaker 1: of property in the in the Pike County area, and 196 00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:39,959 Speaker 1: we'd learned through the investigation that there was always rumor 197 00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:44,680 Speaker 1: that Skid Montgomery was a big, large scale marijuana dealer 198 00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:49,600 Speaker 1: and that he would put hits out on people and 199 00:11:50,920 --> 00:11:55,160 Speaker 1: especial agent Jenkins obviously, Billy talked to you about an 200 00:11:55,200 --> 00:12:00,040 Speaker 1: alleged business deal where Chris was expected to get a 201 00:12:00,840 --> 00:12:08,240 Speaker 1: large chunk of marijuana and indicated that it would represent 202 00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:09,959 Speaker 1: a lot of money and they would put people out 203 00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:14,320 Speaker 1: of business. Correct, that's correct, Okay, and specifically indicated that 204 00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:17,920 Speaker 1: he felt that that would be upsetting to Latham slash 205 00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:24,960 Speaker 1: Skid mcgomy. That's correct. Yes, here's Stephanie and Jeff. It's 206 00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:29,840 Speaker 1: very compelling to hear the voice of accused father Billy Wagner. 207 00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:33,680 Speaker 1: Hearing this interview that has been spoken about so often 208 00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:37,920 Speaker 1: was fascinating. Some people say that he was rambling in 209 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:42,559 Speaker 1: this interview and trying to lead investigators in a different 210 00:12:42,559 --> 00:12:46,839 Speaker 1: direction and throw some tidbits at them to get them 211 00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:50,280 Speaker 1: off his track, but frankly, in listening to it, I 212 00:12:50,280 --> 00:12:53,080 Speaker 1: thought he felt pretty common cooperative. He was just being 213 00:12:53,080 --> 00:12:56,679 Speaker 1: stopped outside of a grocery store and cut two. He's 214 00:12:56,720 --> 00:13:00,800 Speaker 1: in a two hour interview. Based on what we've heard 215 00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:03,200 Speaker 1: about the Wagger's movements after the murders, I think it 216 00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:06,360 Speaker 1: stands to reason that they probably weren't anticipating talking to 217 00:13:06,440 --> 00:13:09,120 Speaker 1: law enforcement at some point and probably had a bit 218 00:13:09,120 --> 00:13:12,280 Speaker 1: of a script or a plan for when that did happen. 219 00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:16,920 Speaker 1: I mean, because Billy very quickly was throwing out unsubstantiated 220 00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:20,840 Speaker 1: rumors about nineteen year old victim Hannah may Or, pointing 221 00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:24,080 Speaker 1: away from himself towards the GROW operation and even bringing 222 00:13:24,120 --> 00:13:27,200 Speaker 1: up Skid Montgomery like he already had a litany of 223 00:13:27,240 --> 00:13:29,480 Speaker 1: things that he was going to kind of try to 224 00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:31,640 Speaker 1: throw at the police to get the scent off of 225 00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:36,000 Speaker 1: him and his family. Interesting that you should say that, 226 00:13:36,040 --> 00:13:38,640 Speaker 1: because yes, you're right. On the one hand, he's saying 227 00:13:38,679 --> 00:13:43,080 Speaker 1: that Chris Senior was his very best friend and he 228 00:13:43,080 --> 00:13:45,640 Speaker 1: would do anything for him, and that Chris would do 229 00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:48,600 Speaker 1: anything for him, and to your point, on the other hand, 230 00:13:48,679 --> 00:13:51,200 Speaker 1: he's essentially throwing him under the bus by pointing to 231 00:13:51,240 --> 00:13:55,520 Speaker 1: the Grow operation and denying that there was ever a 232 00:13:55,559 --> 00:13:59,920 Speaker 1: big fight between them regarding custody and kind of bringing 233 00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:03,560 Speaker 1: him again back to Skid Montgomery. Even just hearing the 234 00:14:03,640 --> 00:14:08,520 Speaker 1: name Latham aka Skid Montgomery, and it legitimately makes the 235 00:14:08,559 --> 00:14:11,080 Speaker 1: hairs in the back of my next stand up because 236 00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:14,720 Speaker 1: we've been given this name so many times, both from 237 00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:18,480 Speaker 1: listeners and people in and around the area. And again, 238 00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:22,840 Speaker 1: Skid Montgomery is a very prominent landowner in Pike County 239 00:14:23,240 --> 00:14:27,640 Speaker 1: and now here's Billy basically accusing him. Is this just 240 00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:31,880 Speaker 1: Billy getting him off his tracks, or is it possible 241 00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:33,400 Speaker 1: that there are some truth to that. I have to 242 00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:36,800 Speaker 1: assume that we're going to hear from Skid Montgomery at 243 00:14:36,880 --> 00:14:39,520 Speaker 1: some point, and that he'll be a witness. I also 244 00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:43,560 Speaker 1: thought it was interesting that Billy says there was a 245 00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:46,600 Speaker 1: sheriff at the bottom of the road that whole night 246 00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:49,320 Speaker 1: that he had heard rumors of. That is he referring 247 00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:51,920 Speaker 1: to Sheriff Reader, And if so, I also have to 248 00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:56,320 Speaker 1: assume that Sheriff Reader at some point will testify at 249 00:14:56,360 --> 00:14:59,280 Speaker 1: this trial because his name comes up all the time, 250 00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:03,640 Speaker 1: and as we know, he's currently serving time for unrelated 251 00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:10,200 Speaker 1: charges for taking drug money illegally and using it for gambling, 252 00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:15,160 Speaker 1: again completely unrelated. Nobody has associated him with these murders, 253 00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:18,320 Speaker 1: but again these names keep coming up. Well stuff. This 254 00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:21,560 Speaker 1: is certainly an interesting preview of the trial to come, 255 00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:23,800 Speaker 1: as we know Billy Wagner has pled not guilty and 256 00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:26,960 Speaker 1: as a waiting trial, and so this is maybe just 257 00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:30,240 Speaker 1: a little bit of a sneak peek at his upcoming 258 00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:34,240 Speaker 1: legal proceedings. Also, even just him saying that me and 259 00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:38,720 Speaker 1: Chris were best friends and that we were like daylight 260 00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:41,680 Speaker 1: and dark. I thought that would have such a curious statement, 261 00:15:42,080 --> 00:15:48,880 Speaker 1: which one does he see himself as. Despite efforts to 262 00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:52,360 Speaker 1: shift the focus away from himself and his family, investigators 263 00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:55,400 Speaker 1: walked away from their conversation with Billy Wagner with more 264 00:15:55,480 --> 00:16:01,000 Speaker 1: questions than answers. Here's legal analyst Mike Allen. He didn't 265 00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:03,800 Speaker 1: help himself listening to it. I really don't know what 266 00:16:03,880 --> 00:16:06,360 Speaker 1: he was trying to do. I mean, obviously he was 267 00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:09,960 Speaker 1: trying to shift the focus away from him and his family. 268 00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:13,720 Speaker 1: I don't think he was very successful with it. That 269 00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:18,200 Speaker 1: happens all the time. These people, some of them, they 270 00:16:18,280 --> 00:16:21,680 Speaker 1: deceived themselves into thinking that, you know, they're the smartest 271 00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:24,840 Speaker 1: criminal in the world. And you know they'll say, well, 272 00:16:25,080 --> 00:16:28,880 Speaker 1: if I say this to the police, or if I 273 00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:31,520 Speaker 1: say something else to the police, there, that'll throw him 274 00:16:31,560 --> 00:16:37,280 Speaker 1: off the trail. Doesn't happen. We're going to take a break. 275 00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:43,720 Speaker 1: We'll be back in a moment. Oh. I'm Carol Fisher, 276 00:16:43,880 --> 00:16:47,120 Speaker 1: and I'm hosting a podcast called The Girlfriends. Back in 277 00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:50,160 Speaker 1: the nineteen nineties in Las Vegas, a few of us 278 00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:55,280 Speaker 1: dated the most eligible bachelor in town, Bob. He spoke 279 00:16:55,440 --> 00:17:01,400 Speaker 1: several languages, he did medical missionary work, and he was Jewish. 280 00:17:01,800 --> 00:17:06,479 Speaker 1: He was perfect on paper, but he wasn't. He really wasn't. 281 00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:11,119 Speaker 1: He shouted to the point she went unconscious. Bob could 282 00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:15,040 Speaker 1: lie about anything, but only takes the one time when 283 00:17:15,240 --> 00:17:19,280 Speaker 1: somebody ends up dead. Unfortunately for Bob, us girlfriends know 284 00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:21,879 Speaker 1: how to fight back. I wanted him to pay for 285 00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:25,240 Speaker 1: his crime. He needed to be put to justice. I'll 286 00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:26,600 Speaker 1: be honest with you. If I saw him right now, 287 00:17:26,600 --> 00:17:28,959 Speaker 1: I'd spit on him. I would call him and I 288 00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:31,800 Speaker 1: would say, I know you killed my sister. I will 289 00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:34,840 Speaker 1: always hound you and haunt you. You can listen to 290 00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:39,480 Speaker 1: The Girlfriends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever 291 00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:43,159 Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. Hello, Hello, Malcolm Glabell here, host 292 00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:46,240 Speaker 1: of Revisionist History, a show about the overlooked and the 293 00:17:46,320 --> 00:17:51,800 Speaker 1: misunderstood stories you won't hear anywhere else, like our ongoing 294 00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:56,240 Speaker 1: obsessive campaign to blow up the world's most focus college 295 00:17:56,320 --> 00:17:59,920 Speaker 1: ranking system. Why not just throw in a few extras 296 00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:04,919 Speaker 1: or witness me after years of fancy public speaking, learning 297 00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:08,240 Speaker 1: that I kind of have to start over. The tone 298 00:18:08,440 --> 00:18:10,959 Speaker 1: that you had throughout the debate was very similar to 299 00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:13,560 Speaker 1: some of the students that I do work with, and 300 00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:15,640 Speaker 1: that's what I teach them not to do. We're making 301 00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:19,040 Speaker 1: more revisionist history for you this year than ever from 302 00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:25,000 Speaker 1: places all across this great country emergency rooms, huge theaters, 303 00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:28,600 Speaker 1: small towns, and shooting righteous and you want to put 304 00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:31,480 Speaker 1: your thumb up like the US. Are you gonna pull 305 00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:35,119 Speaker 1: the trigger with this finger here? Okay? Listen to Revisionist 306 00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:39,600 Speaker 1: History on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you 307 00:18:39,720 --> 00:18:44,640 Speaker 1: get your podcasts from iHeart podcasts. Whitney, Hell is going 308 00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:48,520 Speaker 1: on here? Everyone has their limits. I never confronted a 309 00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:50,520 Speaker 1: situation like this. I just thought it was just a 310 00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:54,960 Speaker 1: really terrible immoral thing align they won't cross. I was stunned. 311 00:18:55,119 --> 00:18:58,200 Speaker 1: And I just said, no, we're killing people. You may 312 00:18:58,280 --> 00:19:01,560 Speaker 1: never have to face that decision when you find yourself 313 00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:05,440 Speaker 1: at that line out ricin ars ricin, and somebody needs 314 00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:08,600 Speaker 1: to just for once give everybody the whole truth. I'm like, 315 00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:13,080 Speaker 1: this is evil and the only person who can sound 316 00:19:13,119 --> 00:19:16,840 Speaker 1: the alarm is you. I wasn't just going to sit silently. 317 00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:22,119 Speaker 1: Buy from iHeart Podcasts. These are the whistleblowers. If you 318 00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:24,480 Speaker 1: are disloyal thinks are going to happen to this week 319 00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:28,680 Speaker 1: out disgrace to our gun. Evil place should be prosecute. 320 00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:33,600 Speaker 1: When power corrupts, conscience is the last line of defense. 321 00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:38,400 Speaker 1: I'm Miles Taylor. Listen to the Whistleblowers on the iHeartRadio app, 322 00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:47,520 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. My name's 323 00:19:47,560 --> 00:19:51,840 Speaker 1: Laverne Cox. I'm an actress, producer, fashionista, and host of 324 00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:54,840 Speaker 1: The Laverne Cox Show. You may remember my award winning 325 00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:59,159 Speaker 1: first season. I've been pretty busy. There's always time to 326 00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:02,720 Speaker 1: touch incredible about important things. People like me have been 327 00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:05,280 Speaker 1: screaming for years. We've got to watch the Supreme Court. 328 00:20:05,359 --> 00:20:07,800 Speaker 1: What they're doing is wrong, what they're doing is evil. 329 00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:10,760 Speaker 1: They will take things away and I can only hope 330 00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:13,560 Speaker 1: that Dobbs is that like Pearl Harbor moment, girl, you 331 00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:16,080 Speaker 1: and I both know what it took to just get 332 00:20:16,119 --> 00:20:18,280 Speaker 1: through the day in New York City and get home 333 00:20:18,359 --> 00:20:21,320 Speaker 1: in one piece. And so the fact that we're here 334 00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:24,119 Speaker 1: and what you've achieved and what I've achieved, you know, 335 00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:28,600 Speaker 1: that's momentous. It's not just sitting around complaining about some bills. 336 00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:31,200 Speaker 1: The only reason that you might think, as Chase said, 337 00:20:31,240 --> 00:20:34,640 Speaker 1: that we're always miserable is because people are constantly attacking 338 00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:37,320 Speaker 1: us and we're constantly noticing it. Listen to the Laverne 339 00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:41,320 Speaker 1: Cox Show on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever 340 00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:45,520 Speaker 1: you get your podcast. Be sure to subscribe and share. 341 00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:55,919 Speaker 1: The investigative trail was beginning to point directly to the 342 00:20:55,960 --> 00:21:00,920 Speaker 1: Wagner family, though not necessarily to defendant George Wagner. Here's 343 00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:05,840 Speaker 1: longtime investigative reporter James Pilcher and Cincinnati Now with Local twelve. 344 00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:08,960 Speaker 1: When are they going to point to George being part 345 00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:12,600 Speaker 1: of this conspiracy? Because none of the physical evidence that 346 00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:16,159 Speaker 1: they presented early on had any of the Wagners to 347 00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:20,600 Speaker 1: any of these crime scenes. Outside the courtroom, questions were 348 00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:24,120 Speaker 1: being asked about the prosecution's ability to link George Wagner 349 00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:27,040 Speaker 1: to the murders. That to me is the major issue here, right. 350 00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:29,919 Speaker 1: I've been going for days in this trial, lots of evidence, 351 00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:33,560 Speaker 1: lots of witnesses, but honestly, we have yet to hear 352 00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:38,120 Speaker 1: any connection of George the fourth to these crimes. Following 353 00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:42,600 Speaker 1: Special Agent John Jenkins testimony, the defense requested for the 354 00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:45,639 Speaker 1: third time in the trial there should be a mistrial. 355 00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:49,520 Speaker 1: The defense argued the tapes of Special Agent jenkins interview 356 00:21:49,520 --> 00:21:52,399 Speaker 1: with Billy Wagner should never have been played before the jury. 357 00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:55,520 Speaker 1: The defense argued the tapes had nothing to do with 358 00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:58,960 Speaker 1: George Wagner and that the interview did not establish any 359 00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:02,840 Speaker 1: proof of a CONSPI years to commit aggravated murder. Special 360 00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:06,280 Speaker 1: Prosecutor Angiekuneppa said that wasn't why the state played the 361 00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:10,440 Speaker 1: interview with Billy Wagner at his son George's trial. Instead, 362 00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:13,800 Speaker 1: she wanted the jury to see how BCI investigators ended 363 00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:17,399 Speaker 1: up focusing on the Wagner family. Of course, he's a 364 00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:21,600 Speaker 1: really emotions previously made on the record for miss trial 365 00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:25,080 Speaker 1: and to include the tape or to strike the tape, 366 00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:28,359 Speaker 1: is defense council and the state ready to bring the 367 00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:32,399 Speaker 1: jury up. Judge during ruled against the motion for a mistrial, 368 00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:36,360 Speaker 1: and the prosecution called for the second time. BCI analyst 369 00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:40,159 Speaker 1: Julia Evislage. The agent has long brown hair and is 370 00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:43,840 Speaker 1: wearing a maroon red jacket. Evislage is sworn in and 371 00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:48,359 Speaker 1: questioned by Special Prosecutor Angie Kaneppa. Good afternoon. How are 372 00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:50,760 Speaker 1: you good afternoon? If you want to go ahead and 373 00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:54,679 Speaker 1: state your name again just for the record, Julia Evislage, okay, 374 00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:59,080 Speaker 1: And you previously testified in this case. Correct, that's correct, okay. 375 00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:03,920 Speaker 1: And we've already discussed with you your current role at 376 00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:08,640 Speaker 1: the Bureau of Criminal Investigations and your work in this case, 377 00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:13,960 Speaker 1: specifically in analyzing records and other things that came that 378 00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:20,480 Speaker 1: were obtained personnant to both subpoenas and search warrants. Correct, yes, okay. 379 00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:24,320 Speaker 1: And can you tell us when you go through records 380 00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:27,600 Speaker 1: and such, is that information that you then share with 381 00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:32,359 Speaker 1: the investigative team, yes, okay, and in your experiences that 382 00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:36,919 Speaker 1: then inform their investigation in people that they're willing in 383 00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:40,440 Speaker 1: or willing out. Yes, okay. And can you tell us, 384 00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:44,800 Speaker 1: miss visual agent in this case, did you guys obtain 385 00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:50,080 Speaker 1: Facebook records of the victims. Yes. One of our cyber 386 00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:54,240 Speaker 1: crimes agents obtained a search warrant for all of the 387 00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:58,160 Speaker 1: Facebook accounts of the victims, and we review those once 388 00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:03,360 Speaker 1: the responses came in from Facebook. On the screen above evislage, 389 00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:06,760 Speaker 1: prosecutors pull up a spreadsheet of messages taken from Hannah 390 00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:10,480 Speaker 1: Roden's Facebook account. Each entry is labeled with the time 391 00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:15,360 Speaker 1: and date of the exchange. During that review of those 392 00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:22,000 Speaker 1: Facebook records, did you find information in the Facebook account 393 00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:27,120 Speaker 1: belonging to Hannah May Roden? Yes? And can you tell 394 00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:30,720 Speaker 1: us why were they noteworthy to you? When we first 395 00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:33,480 Speaker 1: started looking at Hannah's Facebook, we found some statements in 396 00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:35,240 Speaker 1: there and some of her messages that seemed to be 397 00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:38,400 Speaker 1: in direct conflict with things that we had heard and interviews, 398 00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:42,520 Speaker 1: particularly with Jake Wagner's interview, and we noted just different 399 00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:49,600 Speaker 1: different statements about abuse in the relationship, issues with the 400 00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:52,520 Speaker 1: Wagner's being controlling, things like that, and then just her 401 00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:56,119 Speaker 1: kind of sense of discomfort with the situation with the 402 00:24:56,119 --> 00:24:59,280 Speaker 1: custody of Okay and fears that they were trying to 403 00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:05,200 Speaker 1: take here again Stephanie and Jeff. Last episode, we heard, 404 00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:11,000 Speaker 1: among others, Tabitha Clayton, George Wagner's ex wife's testimony and 405 00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:15,639 Speaker 1: her correspondence between Hannah May Rodin and herself before she 406 00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:18,920 Speaker 1: was murdered. Well, yeah, what's interesting about this is the 407 00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:23,040 Speaker 1: messages between Hannah May and Tabitha, Georgia's ex wife talk 408 00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:26,960 Speaker 1: about the fears of losing custody and the Wagner family 409 00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:29,919 Speaker 1: making the young women signed documents that they don't want 410 00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:32,800 Speaker 1: to be signed, kind of basically being coerced into signing. 411 00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:37,399 Speaker 1: Attempted guardianship fraud was uncovered in the Pine County murder trial. 412 00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:39,880 Speaker 1: Take a closer look at your screen here. I want 413 00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:42,159 Speaker 1: to show you something that's on that document. At the 414 00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:44,639 Speaker 1: bottom of it, you can see a u RL to 415 00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:46,960 Speaker 1: a website and there's a date on the paper. It 416 00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:50,760 Speaker 1: shows someone ripped this document off a Texas government website 417 00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:54,920 Speaker 1: in April of twenty sixteen, the same month someone murdered 418 00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:58,680 Speaker 1: Hannah May and seven of her family members. Investigators say 419 00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:04,240 Speaker 1: they've found that in the Wagner's belongings. While the Wagner's 420 00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:07,160 Speaker 1: told investigators there were no issues over custody of Jake 421 00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:11,840 Speaker 1: and Hannah's daughter, analyst Julia Evislage pointed to additional Facebook 422 00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:14,920 Speaker 1: messages that showed Hannah was scared of the Wagner's attempts 423 00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:18,960 Speaker 1: to win custody of her daughter. One Facebook message stood out. 424 00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:23,000 Speaker 1: It's the often spoken about conversation from December of twenty 425 00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:26,679 Speaker 1: fifteen that was between Hannahme Roden and George Wagner, the 426 00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:30,399 Speaker 1: Fourth's ex mother in law. It's where hannahme swears she 427 00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:33,359 Speaker 1: will never sign papers to give up custody of her daughter. 428 00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:36,879 Speaker 1: As for those Facebook messages to Hannah Wagner, one of 429 00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:41,320 Speaker 1: those exchanges between Tabitha and Hannah Roden actually took place 430 00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:44,560 Speaker 1: on the very day that Hannah Rodin was killed. Billy 431 00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:48,600 Speaker 1: Wagner's interview and the Facebook messages showing the brewing custody 432 00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:52,320 Speaker 1: battle between Hannah and Jake convinced investigators in late twenty 433 00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:55,399 Speaker 1: sixteen they needed to shift their focus to the Wagner family. 434 00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:58,600 Speaker 1: You need to investigate that. That's important. That's a lead, 435 00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:03,480 Speaker 1: that's something that we ran down, especially Agent Ryan Scheiderer 436 00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:06,639 Speaker 1: of the BCI led the two year investigation into the 437 00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:10,840 Speaker 1: brutal killings. Scheiderer testified that he visited the Wagner's home 438 00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:14,280 Speaker 1: on Peterson Road in May of twenty seventeen, just before 439 00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:17,439 Speaker 1: the Wagners are set to move to Alaska. Here's Angie 440 00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:20,800 Speaker 1: Kneppa speaking with Agent Scheiderer, who is on the stand. 441 00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:24,920 Speaker 1: When you arrived, you said Jake and Angela and George 442 00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:27,800 Speaker 1: were outside packing along as in a trailer. Did all 443 00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:31,199 Speaker 1: three of those individuals remain outside, No, they did not. 444 00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:36,560 Speaker 1: George excused himself on one side, and Jake and Angela 445 00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:43,399 Speaker 1: remained outside. Yes, okay. And during that time did you 446 00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:48,280 Speaker 1: observe anything in the driveway that was of interest to you? Yes? Why? 447 00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:52,560 Speaker 1: Speaking with Angela and Jake, they were willing to speak 448 00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:55,200 Speaker 1: with us. They didn't ask us to leave. I just 449 00:27:55,320 --> 00:28:01,879 Speaker 1: casually observed there was numerous fired cartridge casnes about the driveway. 450 00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:06,120 Speaker 1: All over the place. There was hundreds of months thousands 451 00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:10,440 Speaker 1: of cartridges laying around casings. And can you tell us, 452 00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:14,360 Speaker 1: a special agent scheider did you were you able to 453 00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:18,480 Speaker 1: pick those items up and examine them closely? No? Okay? 454 00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:22,320 Speaker 1: And were you able to tell from your vantage point 455 00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:25,440 Speaker 1: not bending over and picking them up or examined them closely? 456 00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:28,760 Speaker 1: Did any of them appear to be of interest? Yes? 457 00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:32,000 Speaker 1: So the crime scenes, we were aware that there was 458 00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:35,800 Speaker 1: a forty caliber used a forty caliber cartridge casing was 459 00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:37,400 Speaker 1: found at one of the crime scenes you guys heard 460 00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:40,280 Speaker 1: about that. We also knew that there was potentially a 461 00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:44,280 Speaker 1: thirty caliber rifle that was used and twenty two long rifle. 462 00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:48,760 Speaker 1: What I observed that day I saw cartridge casings that 463 00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:52,080 Speaker 1: appeared to be from a rifle. They weren't like a 464 00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:55,360 Speaker 1: twenty two caliber rifles, so they weren't twenty two room fires, 465 00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:58,400 Speaker 1: but they definitely weren't like two two threes or five 466 00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:01,400 Speaker 1: five sixes. I just couldn't tell what caliber they were. 467 00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:05,120 Speaker 1: And then I also saw cartiage cases that were or 468 00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:09,440 Speaker 1: casings that were consistent with pistol calibers. Specifically, to me, 469 00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:12,440 Speaker 1: it looked like they were nine millimeters or forty caliber. 470 00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:14,880 Speaker 1: I couldn't tell from my vantage point. Obviously, I'm standing 471 00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:17,920 Speaker 1: up and I did not examine them. And can you 472 00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:22,240 Speaker 1: tell us? Was there also a conversation with Jake regarding 473 00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:26,600 Speaker 1: various punishments for this kind of a crime. Yes. One 474 00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:28,400 Speaker 1: of the one of the things that I like to do. 475 00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:31,680 Speaker 1: When I'm talking to somebody that I suspect is involved 476 00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:34,760 Speaker 1: in a crime I'm investigating, there's oftentimes I will ask 477 00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:38,440 Speaker 1: that person, what do you think the appropriate punishment is 478 00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:43,360 Speaker 1: for somebody that's accused of this crime to elicit their response. 479 00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:45,960 Speaker 1: So I did ask him that, okay, and what was 480 00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:48,320 Speaker 1: his response. It depended on whether or not they were 481 00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:53,520 Speaker 1: a trigger person. Following the visit, investigators got a warrant 482 00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:57,240 Speaker 1: to search the Wagner property and their cell phones. Among 483 00:29:57,280 --> 00:30:00,840 Speaker 1: the many communications they found were text messages between George 484 00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:05,160 Speaker 1: Wagner and his father, Billy. One message was sent while 485 00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:09,160 Speaker 1: BCI investigators were at the Wagner's home. Can you tell 486 00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:12,680 Speaker 1: us if you saw anything of interest on Billy's phone? 487 00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:17,400 Speaker 1: There was interesting text messages from George. Message number four 488 00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:20,760 Speaker 1: is an inbox, which means it's a message to Billy 489 00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:24,640 Speaker 1: and it is from George, his son, and it says, 490 00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:33,160 Speaker 1: don't come down till I text you got company. Here's Stephanie. 491 00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:38,360 Speaker 1: None of this ties George Wagner to the crimes. I 492 00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:42,479 Speaker 1: also thought it was interesting that when police arrived to 493 00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:46,440 Speaker 1: their home and George went inside, and they later took 494 00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:50,520 Speaker 1: Billy's phone and he had texted to George to stay inside. 495 00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:55,320 Speaker 1: Was he protecting him from police? Was Jake protecting his 496 00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:58,720 Speaker 1: brother when he said, what should happen to the people 497 00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:01,880 Speaker 1: who committed this crime, and he said depends on who 498 00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:07,200 Speaker 1: the trigger puller was. But again a strange answer retrospectively, 499 00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:10,840 Speaker 1: since he has now taken a plea agreement saying that 500 00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:13,640 Speaker 1: he was in fact a trigger puller, is that a 501 00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:18,200 Speaker 1: way of protecting George? Because so far compelling as all 502 00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:21,840 Speaker 1: of this is, none of it really does tie George 503 00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:25,920 Speaker 1: to the crime. But Jake Wagner's phone included far more 504 00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:29,880 Speaker 1: incriminating evidence. Once again, the messages were displayed on a 505 00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:35,080 Speaker 1: large TV screen above the witness box. Did you also 506 00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:39,640 Speaker 1: look at Jake's phone and did you find anything of 507 00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:43,760 Speaker 1: interest on that phone? Yes? And can you tell us 508 00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:47,560 Speaker 1: what you thought. One of the most interesting things that 509 00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:51,200 Speaker 1: we found on Jake's phone at that time was under 510 00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:53,880 Speaker 1: the note section, and it was a list of guns 511 00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:58,720 Speaker 1: owned by the Wagners were purported to be. So basically, 512 00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:00,800 Speaker 1: there's a list with each Wagner name and then a 513 00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:03,800 Speaker 1: list of guns underneath each of those names. Jurors and 514 00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:06,960 Speaker 1: Wagner's murder trial learned his brother Jake kept a list 515 00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:09,960 Speaker 1: of guns that investigators think both men, along with their 516 00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:13,440 Speaker 1: parents Billy and Angela owned on that list an SK 517 00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:16,880 Speaker 1: seven six two by thirty nine and Accult nineteen eleven 518 00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:21,240 Speaker 1: twenty two pistol. The search of the Wagner property also 519 00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:25,080 Speaker 1: produced valuable evidence linking the Wagner's weapons to the murders. 520 00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:30,120 Speaker 1: This included hundreds of shell casings from the Wagner family farm. 521 00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:33,720 Speaker 1: BCI firearms expert Matthew White delivered what could turn out 522 00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:36,560 Speaker 1: to be damning testimony in the State of Ohio's case 523 00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:43,480 Speaker 1: against George Wagner. Today, let's stop here for another break. 524 00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:50,480 Speaker 1: I'm Carol Fisher, and I'm hosting a podcast called The 525 00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:54,000 Speaker 1: Girl Friends. Back in the nineteen nineties in Las Vegas, 526 00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:58,640 Speaker 1: a few of us dated the most eligible bachelor in town, Bob. 527 00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:05,440 Speaker 1: He's several languages, he did medical missionary work, and he 528 00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:09,520 Speaker 1: was Jewish. He was perfect on paper, but he wasn't. 529 00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:13,440 Speaker 1: He really wasn't. He shouted and to the point she 530 00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:18,680 Speaker 1: went unconscious. Bob could lie about anything, but only takes 531 00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:22,920 Speaker 1: the one time when somebody ends up dead. Unfortunately for Bob, 532 00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:26,120 Speaker 1: us girlfriends know how to fight back. I wanted him 533 00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:28,840 Speaker 1: to pay for his crime. He needed to be put 534 00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:30,960 Speaker 1: to justice. I'll be honest with you. If I saw 535 00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:32,960 Speaker 1: him right now, I'd spit on him. I would call 536 00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:35,880 Speaker 1: him and I would say, I know you killed my sister. 537 00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:39,200 Speaker 1: I will always hound you and haunt you. You can 538 00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:43,520 Speaker 1: listen to the Girlfriends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast 539 00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:47,479 Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, Hello, Malcolm Glabell here, 540 00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:50,960 Speaker 1: host of Revisionist History, a show about the overlooked and 541 00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:55,840 Speaker 1: the misunderstood stories you won't hear anywhere else, like our 542 00:33:56,000 --> 00:34:00,360 Speaker 1: ongoing obsessive campaign to blow up the world it's most 543 00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:03,960 Speaker 1: focused college ranking system. Why not just throw in a 544 00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:08,320 Speaker 1: few extra zeros or witness me after years of fancy 545 00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:11,879 Speaker 1: public speaking, learning that I kind of have to start over. 546 00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:15,200 Speaker 1: The tone that you had throughout the debate was very 547 00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:17,560 Speaker 1: similar to some of the students that I do work with, 548 00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:20,200 Speaker 1: and that's what I teach them not to do. We're 549 00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:23,200 Speaker 1: making more revisionist history for you this year than ever 550 00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:29,800 Speaker 1: from places all across this great country, emergency rooms, huge theaters, 551 00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:33,399 Speaker 1: small towns, and shooting righteous and you want to put 552 00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:36,400 Speaker 1: your thumb up like theos. Are you gonna pull the 553 00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:40,320 Speaker 1: trigger with this finger? Here? Okay? Listen to Revisionist History 554 00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:44,920 Speaker 1: on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get 555 00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:50,040 Speaker 1: your podcasts from iHeart podcasts, Whitney hell is going on here. 556 00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:54,200 Speaker 1: Everyone has their limits. I'd never confronted a situation like this. 557 00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:56,839 Speaker 1: I just thought it was just a really terrible, immoral thing. 558 00:34:57,120 --> 00:35:01,000 Speaker 1: Aligned they won't cross. I was stunned, and I just said, no, 559 00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:04,239 Speaker 1: we're killing people. You may never have to face that 560 00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:08,080 Speaker 1: decision when you find yourself at that line. Thout ricin, 561 00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:11,640 Speaker 1: arn't ricin, And somebody needs to just for once give 562 00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:16,399 Speaker 1: everybody the whole truth, like this is evil and the 563 00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:20,200 Speaker 1: only person who can sound the alarm is you. I 564 00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:24,759 Speaker 1: wasn't just going to sit silently. Buy from iHeart Podcasts. 565 00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:28,359 Speaker 1: These are the whistleblowers. If you are disloyal, things are 566 00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:30,719 Speaker 1: going to happen to speak out disgrace through our good. 567 00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:36,840 Speaker 1: Evil po should be prosecuted when power corrupts. Conscience is 568 00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:41,040 Speaker 1: the last line of defense. I'm Miles Taylor. Listen to 569 00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:45,360 Speaker 1: the Whistleblowers on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 570 00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:55,759 Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. My name's Laverne Cox. I'm an actress, producer, fashionista, 571 00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:58,840 Speaker 1: and host of The Laverne Cox Show. You may remember 572 00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:03,279 Speaker 1: my award winning Verse season. I've been pretty busy. There's 573 00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:06,800 Speaker 1: always time to touch incredible guests about important things. People 574 00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:09,040 Speaker 1: like me have been screaming for years. We've got to 575 00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:11,520 Speaker 1: watch the Supreme Court. What they're doing is wrong, what 576 00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:14,359 Speaker 1: they're doing is evil. They will take things away. And 577 00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:17,240 Speaker 1: I can only hope that Dobbs is that like Pearl 578 00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:19,759 Speaker 1: Harbor moment. Girl, You and I both know what it 579 00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:22,000 Speaker 1: took to just get through the day in New York 580 00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:25,120 Speaker 1: City and get home in one piece. And so the 581 00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:27,520 Speaker 1: fact that we're here and what you've achieved and what 582 00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:32,040 Speaker 1: I've achieved, you know, that's momentous. It's not just sitting 583 00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:34,680 Speaker 1: around complaining about some bills. The only reason that you 584 00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:37,680 Speaker 1: might think, as Chase said, that we're always miserable, is 585 00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:40,880 Speaker 1: because people are constantly attacking us and we're constantly noticing it. 586 00:36:41,239 --> 00:36:44,160 Speaker 1: Listen to The Laverne Cox Show on the iHeartRadio app, 587 00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:48,759 Speaker 1: Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Be sure 588 00:36:48,760 --> 00:37:01,040 Speaker 1: to subscribe and share. During Special Prosecutor Andy Wilson's questioning 589 00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:05,719 Speaker 1: of BCI agent Matthew White, prosecutors showed hundreds of photos 590 00:37:05,719 --> 00:37:09,040 Speaker 1: of shell casings on the overhead screen. Jurors were seen 591 00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:12,279 Speaker 1: taking notes and at times sketching doodle drawings. During the 592 00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:17,440 Speaker 1: long and often technical testimony. Were you able based on 593 00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:20,920 Speaker 1: your knowledge, you're training, your experience, and the work that 594 00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:23,719 Speaker 1: you had done in this case examining both the shell 595 00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:27,440 Speaker 1: casings and the projectiles, were you able to wring you 596 00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:30,880 Speaker 1: an opinion as to whether or not any guns listed 597 00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:36,040 Speaker 1: on that list could have been responsible for the evidence 598 00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:39,680 Speaker 1: recover pies from the scenes. I did, and could you 599 00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:43,279 Speaker 1: tell the jury what that opinion was? I felt the 600 00:37:43,320 --> 00:37:47,920 Speaker 1: most likely candidates for firearms that could have been used 601 00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:52,880 Speaker 1: for the SKS seven sixty two by thirty nine and 602 00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:57,799 Speaker 1: the CULT nineteen eleven twenty two pistol. But based on 603 00:37:57,800 --> 00:38:03,120 Speaker 1: your review of this you determine that the SKAS seven 604 00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:05,919 Speaker 1: six two by thirty nine and the COLT nineteen eleven 605 00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:10,960 Speaker 1: twenty two could be contributors to the guns that were used. 606 00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:13,839 Speaker 1: It could be the guns that were used in this case. Yes, 607 00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:18,359 Speaker 1: are that is correct? Matthewitt was also asked if any 608 00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:21,520 Speaker 1: of the shell casings found on the Wagner's property matched 609 00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:24,800 Speaker 1: any of the cartridge casings collected at the crime scenes 610 00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:30,080 Speaker 1: and when you did those comparisons, were you able to 611 00:38:30,160 --> 00:38:33,239 Speaker 1: a reasonable degree of scientific certainty to reach a conclusion 612 00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:37,040 Speaker 1: as to whether or not those exhibits that were recovered 613 00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:41,319 Speaker 1: from Peterson Road were fired from the same firearm that 614 00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:44,800 Speaker 1: fired the shell casings recovered from scene two Scene three. 615 00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:47,000 Speaker 1: I was and can you tell the jury what that 616 00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:51,200 Speaker 1: opinion was. I saw my microsoftic comparison of the two 617 00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:54,160 Speaker 1: fire twenty too long rifle cartridge cases compared to the 618 00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:57,799 Speaker 1: other fired twenty too long rifle cartridge cases. I was 619 00:38:57,840 --> 00:39:01,520 Speaker 1: able to conclude that all of the fired twenty two 620 00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:07,360 Speaker 1: long rifle cartridge cases had been fired in the same firearm. 621 00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:10,560 Speaker 1: The defense, however, tried to blunt the testimony linking the 622 00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:14,879 Speaker 1: Wagner's family's weapons to the murder scenes. The cross examination 623 00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:23,680 Speaker 1: lasted less than ten seconds. You don't know who fired 624 00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:27,239 Speaker 1: that weapon, No, sir, I cannot say that. Thank you, Jeff. 625 00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:33,960 Speaker 1: More on that next time. For more information on the 626 00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:37,960 Speaker 1: case and relevant photos, follow us on Instagram at Katie 627 00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:42,719 Speaker 1: Underscore Studios. The Piked and Masker is produced by Stephanie Lydecker, 628 00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:47,719 Speaker 1: Jeff Shane, Connor Powell Andrew Arnow, Gabriel Castillo and me 629 00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:53,440 Speaker 1: Courtney Armstrong. Editing and sound designed by Jeff Tui, Music 630 00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:56,680 Speaker 1: by Jared Aston. The Piked and Masker is a production 631 00:39:56,680 --> 00:40:00,360 Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio and Katie Studios. For more podcast from my 632 00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:04,520 Speaker 1: Heart Radio, visit the Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or 633 00:40:04,520 --> 00:40:10,280 Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows. I'm Carol Fisher 634 00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:13,759 Speaker 1: and I'm hosting a podcast called The girl Friends. It's 635 00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:17,440 Speaker 1: Las Vegas, it's the nineteen nineties, and it is time 636 00:40:17,520 --> 00:40:21,640 Speaker 1: to find a husband. There were four Jewish doctors who 637 00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:25,719 Speaker 1: were felt to be eligible bachelors. One of them was 638 00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:31,040 Speaker 1: Spob Baron Bout. On paper, he was perfect, but in reality, 639 00:40:31,239 --> 00:40:34,320 Speaker 1: this guy's a wacko. He choked and to the point 640 00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:37,879 Speaker 1: she went unconscious. I would call him and I would say, 641 00:40:38,120 --> 00:40:40,520 Speaker 1: I know you killed my sister. You can listen to 642 00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:44,640 Speaker 1: The girl Friends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or 643 00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:48,600 Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts. I'm will Daily. For years 644 00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:50,760 Speaker 1: have been on the road playing shows and seeing America 645 00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:53,480 Speaker 1: through live music. This summer, I'll hit the stage. Who 646 00:40:53,560 --> 00:40:56,880 Speaker 1: Season two of Sound of Our Town ten Cities twelve 647 00:40:56,880 --> 00:41:00,760 Speaker 1: episodes every other Thursday, we explore the live music venues 648 00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:03,480 Speaker 1: in culture of a new American city. With each new episode, 649 00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:05,960 Speaker 1: our tour continues into the kind of venues you want 650 00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:09,120 Speaker 1: to get to when you land in Detroit, Providence, Denver 651 00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:12,040 Speaker 1: or Seattle. Listen to Sound of Our Town on the 652 00:41:12,080 --> 00:41:16,560 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. 653 00:41:17,719 --> 00:41:20,600 Speaker 1: This is the story of a man who's fascinated me. 654 00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:24,279 Speaker 1: His name was Sweet Daddy Grace, and that's a name 655 00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:27,680 Speaker 1: you don't forget. He was a visionary who built a 656 00:41:27,719 --> 00:41:31,960 Speaker 1: fortune as a black man during Jim Crow during the Depression. 657 00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:35,879 Speaker 1: But today not many people know about him. The race 658 00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:38,719 Speaker 1: sort of wiped out, and I wonder if this was 659 00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:43,400 Speaker 1: done intentionally. Listen to Sweet Daddy Grace on the iHeartRadio app, 660 00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:48,439 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm 661 00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:51,600 Speaker 1: Freedom and I'm Marthy. We have spent the last twenty 662 00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:54,720 Speaker 1: years building and working at some of the largest companies 663 00:41:54,760 --> 00:41:58,360 Speaker 1: in the world. We worked with some remarkable people Rob mcalinney. 664 00:41:58,520 --> 00:42:00,440 Speaker 1: When I see the people of Wrexham, I grew up 665 00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:03,280 Speaker 1: exactly like them. Check out the R. T Instre Ram Show. 666 00:42:03,560 --> 00:42:07,759 Speaker 1: That is a R T H I and s R 667 00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:11,840 Speaker 1: I R A M Show. Listen to the Art Instree 668 00:42:11,880 --> 00:42:15,760 Speaker 1: Ram Show on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever 669 00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:16,800 Speaker 1: you get your podcasts.