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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to What Goes Up, a weekly markets podcast.

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Speaker 1: My name is Mike Kriegan. I'm a senior editor at

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg and.

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Speaker 2: I'm Aldana Hire, Across Acid reporter with Bloomberg.

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Speaker 1: And this week on the show, Well, the stock market

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Speaker 1: was running at full speed in the first half of

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Speaker 1: the year, then towards the end of July it seemed

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Speaker 1: to well just run out of steam. And whether what

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Speaker 1: we've seen since then is just normal seasonal weakness or

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Speaker 1: something more serious, that's yet to be seen. But it

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Speaker 1: is notable that among the hardest hit in this off

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Speaker 1: patch have been some of the most popular thematic trades,

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Speaker 1: from electric vehicles to travel stocks and even the darlings

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Speaker 1: of the artificial intelligence world. So what can we expect

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Speaker 1: for the rest of the year. Well, these themes snapped

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Speaker 1: back were is there a new regime in place? We'll

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Speaker 1: get into it with the co founder and chief investment

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Speaker 1: officer at a company that offers some of the most

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Speaker 1: well known thematic ETFs. But first of all, Donna, I

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Speaker 1: have to ask, September is the worst month in the

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Speaker 1: stock market? What's your show?

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Speaker 2: It was October, November, December, jen that's the joke, Right.

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Speaker 1: February my worst than what's your worst month personally?

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Speaker 2: February.

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Speaker 1: I was going to say February too.

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Speaker 2: I think it's everybody's worst month. Yeah, because you're depressed

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Speaker 2: by then, you know, the winter's been dragging on, you

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Speaker 2: like have.

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Speaker 1: Seasonal there's nothing seasonal affected this one, yes, yeah, and

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Speaker 1: there's nothing like Okay, there's the Super Bowls, all right,

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Speaker 1: that's a nice bright.

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Speaker 2: Spot, but that's only one day and the rest of

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Speaker 2: the time there's no sun. There's nothing like just so

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Speaker 2: dark and depressed.

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Speaker 1: All right. Well, we finally agree on one thing.

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Speaker 2: On one thing. Yeah, wow, we both hate February. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: we can pretend like it doesn't exist. I do want

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Speaker 2: to bring our guests in. It's Sylvia Jablonski, co founder

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Speaker 2: and chief investment officer at Defines ETFs. Sylvia, you've been

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Speaker 2: on the show before, and I'm so happy you could

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Speaker 2: join us again. Thanks so much for coming on.

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Speaker 3: Thanks so much for having me. What about Valentine's Day guys?

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Speaker 1: Oh no, thank you, that's fair.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I mean, I guess Parts.

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Speaker 3: And Stars chocolates, two little.

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Speaker 2: Bright spots in a very darkened dank.

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Speaker 1: We get that presence day weekend off.

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Speaker 2: That's true.

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Speaker 4: Fun.

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Speaker 2: Everybody's like, are we all redeeming February now? But Sylvia,

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Speaker 2: Mike had this great introduction of you, and you have

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Speaker 2: been on the show before, but maybe just to start

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Speaker 2: and just to give our audience a refresher, you can

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Speaker 2: just tell us a bit about your background.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Sure. So I'm currently the CEO and CIO of

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Speaker 3: Defiance CTFs, but a large part of my background has

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Speaker 3: actually been in ETF. So I worked prior to Defiance,

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Speaker 3: I worked at a Levern NIVERSITYTF provider called Direction ETF

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Speaker 3: for a decade basically, and then out of college I

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Speaker 3: worked on an equity derivatives delta on trading desk, so

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Speaker 3: I sort of learned about the nuts and bolts and

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Speaker 3: trading them, how to actually kind of create and build

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Speaker 3: the ETFs, and then ended up working in all aspects

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Speaker 3: of ETFs, whether it's educating about their product development, research,

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Speaker 3: and of course I have a just general passion for markets,

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Speaker 3: so kind of studying markets and figuring out how they

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Speaker 3: all fit it is part of my day to day.

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Speaker 1: Solbia, let's talk about that idea. You know, we have

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Speaker 1: seen this soft patch in the market. It seems like,

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Speaker 1: as I mentioned in the intro, some of the hot

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Speaker 1: thematic ETFs are doing even worse than the market. Is

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Speaker 1: there just a beta there? How do you think about

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Speaker 1: how thematic ETFs, at least the defiance ETFs perform compared

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Speaker 1: to the market. I mean, is it just natural to

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Speaker 1: expect these themes to sort of do even better on

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Speaker 1: the upside and maybe a little worse on the downside.

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Speaker 1: What's the sort of your analysis of how they perform

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Speaker 1: in different market cycles.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And that's actually a pretty fair way to look

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Speaker 3: at it, right, You do have beta exposure, and when

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Speaker 3: you think about thematic ETFs, oftentimes we're sort of, I think,

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Speaker 3: moving away from thematic and we think about it more

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Speaker 3: like tech growth innovator, so kind of what is the

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Speaker 3: tech of the future, what is innovation for the future,

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Speaker 3: And they're not so much like Kitschy themes, right, so

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Speaker 3: we just think about how different sectors will morph. But

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Speaker 3: it's a fair point because if you think about twenty

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Speaker 3: twenty two, all of the top kind of like growth

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Speaker 3: stocks and tech stocks really suffered a bear market, and

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Speaker 3: our ETF suffered alongside of that. And if you think

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Speaker 3: about why, I'll use like quantum ETF is a great example.

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Speaker 3: So so quantum gives you access to five G artificial intelligence, supercomputing,

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Speaker 3: quantum computing, right, and all of those themes. In twenty

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Speaker 3: twenty two, we're just kind of non existent. Tech stocks

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Speaker 3: were down, and what makes up that ETF or some

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Speaker 3: of the top movers like the Apple, Google, IBM, Amazon,

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Speaker 3: the video amts of the world. And then lo and behold,

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Speaker 3: as you said, the first part of the year, up

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Speaker 3: until July, these names sored and so ANYTF like that

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Speaker 3: kind of more than sorted outperformed the NADAQ one hundred

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Speaker 3: because of the same names a MD and such getting

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Speaker 3: a great tail and then five G same thing. It's

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Speaker 3: made up of sort of semiconductors technology. And if you

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Speaker 3: think about when the market pulls back, right when you

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Speaker 3: have kind of like these little bursts of panic because

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Speaker 3: whatever might be service ism is too hot or whatever

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Speaker 3: it is, we worry about the FED raising rates. Everyone

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Speaker 3: kind of panics, sells off tech sales, off growth and

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Speaker 3: goes back into cash equivalent staples and kind of the

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Speaker 3: defensive types of plays. But what I think is that

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Speaker 3: these are actually great opportunities, especially if you're a young

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Speaker 3: person investing for the long term, these are amazing opportunities

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Speaker 3: to dollar costs to average. Like That's that's how I

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Speaker 3: would characterize this market this year. It's not wholly volatile

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Speaker 3: where we have everybody kind of on the sidelines, like

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Speaker 3: like twenty twenty two complete panic highest savings rates ever,

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Speaker 3: I mean, we're still pretty pretty high, but I think

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Speaker 3: this year you're starting to see some of that come

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Speaker 3: off the sidelines and go into these products. So although

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Speaker 3: the performance is low or is getting hurt anyway by

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Speaker 3: these pullbacks, I think over time these ETFs are want

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Speaker 3: to outperform and the people who kind of buy them

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Speaker 3: on these pullbacks are going to be kind of very

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Speaker 3: happy about that. Right. The future is technology. Every single sector,

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Speaker 3: asset class depends on it. So I don't think that

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Speaker 3: these techniques are going anywhere.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So, Sylvia, you like investing around some of these themes,

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Speaker 2: including airlines, hotels, cruise companies, the EV trade, AI and

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Speaker 2: machine learning. So I'm just wondering what the reason is

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Speaker 2: behind that, whether or not you're thinking about the consumer

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Speaker 2: and the consumer staying strong.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a great point, and I think that I

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Speaker 3: sort of have different reasons for the interest in different sectors.

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Speaker 3: So on the travel trade, the cruises, hotels and airlines.

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Speaker 3: You know, I think the big impetus there is that, yes,

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Speaker 3: the consumer remains strong and resilient. They have high levels

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Speaker 3: of savings, and that savings has gone essentially from spending

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Speaker 3: on goods to spending on services. And there are a

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Speaker 3: couple of factors here. So one is that in the

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Speaker 3: early winter it's the first time that the kind of

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Speaker 3: globe reopened to full travel, right, So you have the

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Speaker 3: connection of the East to west back up, you have

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Speaker 3: Asia to the US and Europe and kind of more

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Speaker 3: global travel happening. You have business travel picking up in

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Speaker 3: the spend picking up there. Cruises, some of the cruise

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Speaker 3: stocks are actually up over one hundred percent year today, right,

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Speaker 3: and I think we're coming off of some loan numbers

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Speaker 3: because of COVID. But you know, again, the consumer seems

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Speaker 3: to have shifted to spend into experiences and travel and

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Speaker 3: things like this. So Norwegian has been able to up

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Speaker 3: their prices and create these luxury experience same with Carnival

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Speaker 3: and Royal Caribbean. It's just they've caught a massive tailment

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Speaker 3: from that spent and of course hotels it fits all

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Speaker 3: of it, right, So you have again people traveling it's

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Speaker 3: that time of year, and then on top of that

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Speaker 3: business travel, all of the people flying everywhere obviously up

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Speaker 3: this stay somewhere, so you've seen some major pick up there.

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Speaker 3: And then during the earning season, the CEOs have just

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Speaker 3: really been super positive about current bookings, future bookings being

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Speaker 3: kind of back to where they were in twenty nineteen

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Speaker 3: pre pandemic. And I think that it's a sector that

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Speaker 3: really has been a great short term trade in terms

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Speaker 3: of why evs, I think EV's or where the puck

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Speaker 3: is going. You know, you look at the growth of

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Speaker 3: the EV market. It went from five percent of all

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Speaker 3: vehicles sold last year to fourteen percent this year. The

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Speaker 3: projected statistics of this is to kind of double in

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Speaker 3: the next five years and then at some point to

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Speaker 3: become a multi trillion dollar industry. So there's so many

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Speaker 3: reasons for that, right you have awareness of climate and

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Speaker 3: wanting to be a car but neutral these are obviously

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Speaker 3: better for the environment, and have the support of governments

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Speaker 3: globally around that Inflation Reduction Act, tax credits, all of

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Speaker 3: these sorts of things, and then if you just look

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Speaker 3: at the stats, right it's like one in three cars

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Speaker 3: in China's an electric vehicle. I think it's close to

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Speaker 3: sixty sixty percent of vehicles sold this year where EV's

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Speaker 3: in China. In terms of Norway, it's like ninety nine percent.

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Speaker 3: So these are real growth opportunities.

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Speaker 5: And that's really why I like regardless of what's happening

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Speaker 5: in the market today, I think that these are great

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Speaker 5: allocations for the next few years.

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Speaker 1: Thing Sylvia that's corresponded coincidentally with this drop in equities

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Speaker 1: the last few weeks, perhaps not coincidentally, is this surgeon

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Speaker 1: oil prices. And we have seen some of the airlines

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Speaker 1: come out Southwest Alaska Air another who I can't remember

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Speaker 1: warning about though the jet fuel prices are going to

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Speaker 1: be a little bit higher than expected. How big of

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Speaker 1: a threat is this oil price to that travel theme?

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Speaker 1: Was the consumer strong enough to handle even higher ticket

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Speaker 1: prices if airlines are forced to raise them because of energy?

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Speaker 1: How are you thinking about how the energy situation, the

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Speaker 1: OPEC plus supply cuts, how that all fits into the

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Speaker 1: travel them.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's that's a great point. And obviously that

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Speaker 3: can that could certainly have an input negative impact on

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Speaker 3: the travel industry. But you know where where we see

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Speaker 3: oil and gas prices now, I don't think is going

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Speaker 3: to impact the bottom line for for airline companies. Right

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Speaker 3: if they continue to rise and we do have this

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Speaker 3: threat of increasing oil prices, then I do think that

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Speaker 3: it could potentially hamper the returns for these companies. But

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Speaker 3: I think there's sort of that sweet spot right now,

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Speaker 3: like where these companies can charge higher ticket prices, the

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Speaker 3: consumer can afford it, they're sort of not complaining about it.

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Speaker 3: If they go a little higher, it sustainable. But yeah,

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Speaker 3: it's certainly something that we would have to keep an

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Speaker 3: eye on in the longer term and the shorter term, though,

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Speaker 3: I think next two quarters of earnings for these companies

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Speaker 3: are going to continue to remain stellar.

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Speaker 2: A lot of the projections that people had for twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty three, including recession and whatever other negative impacts people

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Speaker 2: were thinking about on the economy, a lot of those

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Speaker 2: have been pushed out and pushed further and further into

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Speaker 2: the start of twenty twenty four, maybe even later. And

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Speaker 2: I think one of the thoughts that's going around now

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Speaker 2: is that the consumer is going to run out of

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Speaker 2: steam at the start of twenty twenty four. Do you

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Speaker 2: foresee the same or do you continue to see the

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Speaker 2: consumer staying strong.

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Speaker 3: I continue to see the consumer staying strong. I don't

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Speaker 3: think anything will sort of happen that quickly. Twenty twenty

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Speaker 3: four is really just a few months away. If we

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Speaker 3: think about it, and if we look at the data,

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Speaker 3: if we look at corporate earnings, if we look at

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Speaker 3: spending data, it is unlikely to fall off of a cliff,

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Speaker 3: especially because, as you said in your intro, September is

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Speaker 3: you should terrible. October is a little bit rocky too,

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Speaker 3: But November December tend to be positive months for the market,

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Speaker 3: positive months for retail, for spending and things like this.

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Speaker 3: I just don't see that happening. I think you get

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Speaker 3: some tail and went from that and that kind of

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Speaker 3: holds you over till next quarter. It depends on the

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Speaker 3: FED and what the FED does right and how that

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Speaker 3: impacts the economy. So I think that jobs are going

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Speaker 3: to level off. I think part of the reason why

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Speaker 3: jobs have remained strong is, you know, also because we've

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Speaker 3: seen some economic expansion, we've seen some growth, we've seen

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Speaker 3: some innovation and technology and things like this. Eventually that stabilizes,

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Speaker 3: We just stabilize, But you know, if the FED sort

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Speaker 3: of holds rates higher for longer, continues to raise rates,

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Speaker 3: I do think that impacts kind of a lot of

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Speaker 3: things in the market. It'll impact corporate America, It'll impact spending.

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Speaker 3: We'll kind of go back to this like huge risk

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Speaker 3: of recession fears and things like this. But if we

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Speaker 3: kind of are at a point where we think that

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Speaker 3: we're closer to the end of right hikes and potentially

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Speaker 3: thinking about kind of a reduction of rates in the

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Speaker 3: next year or so, you know, then I think we

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Speaker 3: pulled off that soft landing and I don't expect that

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Speaker 3: massive pullback to come. Of course, things have happened in

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Speaker 3: the last couple of years, right, Nobody anticipated COVID, Nobody

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Speaker 3: anticipated kind of like Russia and Ukraine and tensions with China.

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Speaker 3: So we always have to be aware of the geopolitical events.

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Speaker 3: But that aside, if the market continues holding up the

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Speaker 3: way it is, corporate America continues to hold up the

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Speaker 3: way it is, cutting jobs, becoming more efficient, then I

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Speaker 3: think the consumer will be justified and we avoid that

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Speaker 3: big recession.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Sylvia, obviously we've all kind of talked ourselves blue

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Speaker 1: in the face over but AI such a big theme

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Speaker 1: this year. Artificial intelligence one of your newer products QTUM,

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Speaker 1: the Quantum and Artificial Intelligence ETF. What I find interesting

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Speaker 1: about the ETF is that so much focus has been

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Speaker 1: placed on the big megacap tech companies, you know, in Nvidia, Alphabet,

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Speaker 1: the Magnificent Seven as they're called, how they are sort

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Speaker 1: of at the sweet spot to be beneficiaries of the

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Speaker 1: AI craze. But your ETF has some more interesting small

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Speaker 1: cap companies that I don't think many people are necessarily

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Speaker 1: aware of, So companies like Ion C. Brighetti Computer also innovation.

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Speaker 1: I'm wondering if you could talk to us a little

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Speaker 1: bit about some of the lesser known names that are

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Speaker 1: held by this ETF and sort of what the thinking

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Speaker 1: is about being included in this Quantum and Artificial Intelligence ETF.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Sure, I'll kind of give you the macro overview

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Speaker 3: of like why the smaller name is in general, and

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Speaker 3: like what kinds of things they do and why the

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Speaker 3: bigger names. Right, So, when we think about themes and

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Speaker 3: innovation and things like AI and machine learning, there is

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Speaker 3: a lot of hype about it, right, And so when

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Speaker 3: there's hype about something, but it's also coming to fruition

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Speaker 3: and you're starting to see revenue as a results from this.

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Speaker 3: You're starting to see the actual impact of AI and

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Speaker 3: how it's being You just quickly note that AI will

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Speaker 3: change every sector and kind of asset class. I think

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Speaker 3: out there for example biotech, right, you can use AI

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Speaker 3: for better data to create better drugs to have better

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Speaker 3: results and surgeries, to power robots. If it's defense, better

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Speaker 3: targets and information. If it's retail targeting more accurately what

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Speaker 3: you're going to buy and purchase and you know where

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Speaker 3: it should be in the store of things like that.

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Speaker 3: But we can go through every sector and find the

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Speaker 3: application of AI. And so the big companies that power

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Speaker 3: AI are the Navidia, the AMD, the Google and Amazon

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Speaker 3: companies are the companies that have money, they have budget

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Speaker 3: and they're going to be immediate benefactors of this and

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Speaker 3: we've seen that play out this year. And so you

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Speaker 3: want them to have a big place in an ETF

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Speaker 3: like this because you get quality, balance sheet stability, but

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Speaker 3: with innovation, they're going to be winners and losers, right,

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Speaker 3: And some of these smaller companies that you mentioned, you

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Speaker 3: know why we have the smaller companies in there because

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Speaker 3: you think about innovation, you don't know who the winners

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Speaker 3: and the losers are going to be. So some of

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Speaker 3: these smaller company these are chip companies. Some of them

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Speaker 3: are like Amberella that deal with the visuals and graphics

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Speaker 3: and we're getting and things like this. There are different

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Speaker 3: parts of AI. There's data parsing, there's the actual chips

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Speaker 3: part of it, there's a supercomputing part of it. And

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Speaker 3: we believe in the whole kind of ecosystem of AI,

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Speaker 3: and we think that having exposure to some of the

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Speaker 3: small caps that can become major players here and eventually

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Speaker 3: MNA targets, it's a good way to kind of diversify

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Speaker 3: your exposure there.

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Speaker 2: So a lot of attention, as Mike said, and as

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Speaker 2: you just said, has been paid to Navidia and some

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Speaker 2: of the other bigger ones. I spoke with Rob are

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Speaker 2: Not from research Affiliates a couple days ago, and he's

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Speaker 2: pointing to Navidia as being potentially in a bubble, wondering

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Speaker 2: if you are looking at some of these AI companies

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Speaker 2: and thinking the same that maybe potentially some of the

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Speaker 2: bigger ones are overvalued at this point.

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Speaker 3: I actually don't think that they're in the bubble because

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Speaker 3: I think that you know that once we get past

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Speaker 3: the kind of like the fat and the hype around

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Speaker 3: AI and we actually see the practical appation of AI

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Speaker 3: and how it's impacting top and bottom lines of major companies,

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Speaker 3: I think that these companies can only grow further. And

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Speaker 3: a Video, without a doubt, has set themselves to a

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Speaker 3: part to be the AI provider. The only way I

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Speaker 3: think that this doesn't sort of shake out for a

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Speaker 3: video to continue growing is if they can't actually supply

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Speaker 3: the chips that are that are needed. Justin Wong came

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Speaker 3: out and gave us his view of the twenty twenty

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Speaker 3: four forward looking orders and said that they're beyond kind

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Speaker 3: of his expectations and well beyond what the company expected.

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Speaker 3: So when you have the CEO that has actual clarity

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Speaker 3: into his orders or his chips, as long as they

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Speaker 3: can provide those chips, and barring any major there's so

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Speaker 3: much government intervention now with chips and China and all

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Speaker 3: these things, so there are things that can come up.

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Speaker 3: But barring any kind of like political event, it seems

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Speaker 3: that the demand will be there to justify the price

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Speaker 3: and perhaps the price appreciation. In my opinion, Sylvia.

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Speaker 1: One more interesting thematic ETF is the hydrogen ETF you

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Speaker 1: guys offer, And if you go back, I don't know

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Speaker 1: what decade or more, there was a lot of optimism

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Speaker 1: that sort of vehicles would have one day be hydrogen powered.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I guess there are some currently that are,

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Speaker 1: but it never quite reached that goal that they had

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Speaker 1: for hydrogen. Where is the growth for hydrogen hydrogen? What's

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Speaker 1: in the CTF that has you excited? What sort of

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Speaker 1: opportunity sets are there for the companies that are owned

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Speaker 1: by the CTF.

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Speaker 3: I think it goes back to the macro story of

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Speaker 3: alternative energy. We have to find better ways to power things,

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Speaker 3: whether it's vehicles, factories, or otherwise that are friendly to

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Speaker 3: the environment. So it's not to say get rid of

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Speaker 3: all fuel based cars, but EV is one way to

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Speaker 3: go about it, and hydrogen fuel cell power is another

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Speaker 3: way to go about it. So, although it's not super

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Speaker 3: well known in the US outside of California, California is

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Speaker 3: actually seeing great growth in hydrogen powered vehicles. But it

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Speaker 3: is actually something that's taken shape around Europe and Japan

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Speaker 3: and different places around the world. So in Japan, for example,

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Speaker 3: you see you see hydrogen powered buses, you see hydrogen

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Speaker 3: powered boats and ships and all sorts of vehicles and

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Speaker 3: things like this, and it's starting to play out in

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Speaker 3: Europe too with some of their mass transportation options. So

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Speaker 3: I do think that we've seen companies like UPS and

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Speaker 3: NASA and Amazon having fuel cell powered kind of like

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Speaker 3: a crane machine, but all of their kind of manufacturing

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Speaker 3: equipment is powered by hydrogen. And of course they have

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Speaker 3: that investment in ribbon too, so you see the electric

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Speaker 3: vehicle side there. So there is growth in the space.

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Speaker 3: I think that we believe that there will be enough

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Speaker 3: growth in the space where it will be an interesting

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Speaker 3: alternative energy asset class alongside electric vehicles. But you are right,

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Speaker 3: it hasn't seen necessarily that hyper growth that these have seen,

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Speaker 3: so I think that that takes some time to play out.

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Speaker 3: Interestingly enough, though, remaining one of our most popular ETFs,

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Speaker 3: it's getting a lot of that ESG type of alternative

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Speaker 3: energy investment.

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Speaker 1: Well, Sylvia Jablonski of Defiance ETFs really great to hear

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Speaker 1: your thoughts. Can't let you go quite yet, though. He's

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Speaker 1: a contestant for our craziest thing that we saw in

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Speaker 1: markets this week. Well, why do you get a started, Bildina.

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Speaker 2: You probably saw this headline and you definitely thought of me.

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Speaker 1: Sure, yeah, well let's hear it.

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Speaker 2: Taylor Swift's Eras to Our Concert film broke AMC Entertainment's

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Speaker 2: advanced ticket sales record in just three hours.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 2: So AMC announced that they're going to have like a

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Speaker 2: movie film version of her concert. They sold twenty six

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Speaker 2: million dollars worth of tickets on the first day, and

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Speaker 2: I think the stock rose like nine or ten percent

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Speaker 2: at first, and there was like so much excitement. I

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Speaker 2: didn't buy an advanced ticket yet, but I will definitely

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Speaker 2: go see.

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Speaker 1: It's so AMC is back stock.

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Speaker 2: No, but then they took the opportunity to do stock

402
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Speaker 2: offering like two days later. Yes, but the previous record

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Speaker 2: was like almost seventeen million by Spider Man, which like

404
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Speaker 2: is well known for breaking all kinds of records.

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Speaker 1: I want to know it. Will these be normally priced

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Speaker 1: tickets or like Taylor Swift sized ticket prices for this.

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Speaker 2: She loves the number thirteen, so I could see them

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Speaker 2: being like thirteen bucks or something. I know that they're

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Speaker 2: selling like themed popcorn buckets or soda cups or something

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Speaker 2: like that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I know I will be sending all three

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Speaker 1: of my daughters to see this at some point. You

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Speaker 1: can go with them, right, I'll go with them. What

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Speaker 1: the heck? All right, that's a good one, Sylvia. How

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Speaker 1: about you? Have you seen anything crazy lately in markets?

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Speaker 3: I think that the market itself has just been crazy.

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Speaker 3: Like if you this has been the most interesting market

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Speaker 3: that I've want for the entire year, and the last

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Speaker 3: week is no exception, one little piece of data that's

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Speaker 3: the whole thing off, child, right, So I think it's

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Speaker 3: just if you think about like classic investing, right, we're

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Speaker 3: supposed to buy low, sell high holds for a long time,

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Speaker 3: you know, minimize our taxes, all of these things. And

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Speaker 3: if you just look at the gyrations of what a

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Speaker 3: lot of retail investors are doing, they're buying high and

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Speaker 3: they're like, just get an ISM service number that's too

427
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Speaker 3: hot and selling the whole thing off and losing four

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Speaker 3: or five percent in a day. So it's just a

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Speaker 3: very erratic market. It's an emotionally charged market that is

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Speaker 3: very difficult to predict. And I think that that's the

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Speaker 3: weirdest thing about it, this ISM number and the reaction

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Speaker 3: by the market to me is the weirdest thing. I mean,

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Speaker 3: if that's not going to hike one percent this year,

434
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Speaker 3: like what are we not to say that things can't

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Speaker 3: kind of turn but in the next couple of months,

436
00:21:48,560 --> 00:21:49,160
Speaker 3: like what changed?

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00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:52,439
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, how much is the needle really moving compared

438
00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:53,320
Speaker 1: with expectations?

439
00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:53,600
Speaker 3: Right?

440
00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:58,639
Speaker 1: And it's funny because it is that notoriously seasonal viotal

441
00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:00,600
Speaker 1: time of the year, but it's it's kind of like

442
00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:04,439
Speaker 1: the drama surrounding interest rates and the fed and the

443
00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:08,240
Speaker 1: fundamentals are are sort of peaking right at the seasonal

444
00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:13,280
Speaker 1: vault all time. It's an interesting mix that we'll see

445
00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:16,439
Speaker 1: how the rest of September plays out. But yeah, I agree,

446
00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:19,359
Speaker 1: it's been It's been fascinating, all right, I'll give you

447
00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:23,040
Speaker 1: mine this once again. My favorite is the alternative asset

448
00:22:23,119 --> 00:22:25,560
Speaker 1: space for Donna. So Freddie Mercury Do you know who

449
00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:28,080
Speaker 1: he is? Freddie Murcer of course, Yeah, the lead singer

450
00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:32,399
Speaker 1: of Queen. Don't ask me his real name. Actually I

451
00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:34,240
Speaker 1: think I might be his real name. I don't know, No,

452
00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:39,159
Speaker 1: can't be anyway. They sold a bunch of his stuff

453
00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:44,600
Speaker 1: at auction Southeby's sold all sorts of stuff, lyrics, clothes, artwork,

454
00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:49,480
Speaker 1: but the star of the show was his Yamaha Grand Piano,

455
00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:53,600
Speaker 1: which it really hyped this up in the material for

456
00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:56,600
Speaker 1: the auction, saying, let me read it here from our

457
00:22:56,640 --> 00:23:03,360
Speaker 1: Bloomberg coverage, Yamaha Grand Piano that Sotheby's with uncharistic immodesty

458
00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:07,239
Speaker 1: called quote the instrument used to compose some of the

459
00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:10,840
Speaker 1: greatest songs of the twentieth century. Which, fair enough, it

460
00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:13,280
Speaker 1: is true, we know some good songs. I'll give that

461
00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:16,560
Speaker 1: time to play. The prices precise, Sylvia, this is this

462
00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:20,600
Speaker 1: is where this is your time to shine. Yeah. What?

463
00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:21,960
Speaker 4: Oh gosh?

464
00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:22,400
Speaker 3: Okay.

465
00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:27,080
Speaker 1: Freddie Mercury's Yamaha Grand Piano self war at auction by

466
00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:29,719
Speaker 1: sothebys will give you one hint. It was lower than

467
00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:30,720
Speaker 1: the expected range.

468
00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:33,600
Speaker 2: Oh damn. I was going to say I'm going high.

469
00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:37,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, not to say it was a low number, mind you.

470
00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:39,399
Speaker 1: It's like I said, it was considered to be the

471
00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:41,760
Speaker 1: centerpiece of this auction, but a little came in a

472
00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:42,840
Speaker 1: little under the rest.

473
00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:47,040
Speaker 2: Interesting pianos are expensive, no, okay, So then a famous

474
00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:51,960
Speaker 2: person's piano. I'm gonna go with three hundred and fifty.

475
00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:57,960
Speaker 1: Dollars, okay, oh pounds? What I'll accept either. I'll accept either.

476
00:23:58,000 --> 00:23:59,119
Speaker 1: I can do the conversion for you.

477
00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:02,720
Speaker 2: That's too low, isn't it. Can I revise? I'm gonna

478
00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:03,760
Speaker 2: go with two million.

479
00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:06,320
Speaker 1: All right, Sylvia? I don't know will Sylvia, Will you

480
00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:09,160
Speaker 1: let her revise her guests please? You're the other content.

481
00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:10,280
Speaker 3: I'll let her revise.

482
00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:14,320
Speaker 1: Okay, So now you gotta get you gotta give us

483
00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:14,880
Speaker 1: years now.

484
00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:20,520
Speaker 3: So I wonder what Taylor Swifts piano for there, I

485
00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:21,000
Speaker 3: say so.

486
00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:24,199
Speaker 4: I think if I think hers goes for five million,

487
00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:27,080
Speaker 4: I'll give him just because half of the world that

488
00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:29,280
Speaker 4: is alive now maybe it doesn't know who he is,

489
00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:31,960
Speaker 4: like two and a half.

490
00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:34,560
Speaker 1: Man, you guys more or less split the difference there.

491
00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:37,760
Speaker 3: I know who he is, but of course.

492
00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:40,560
Speaker 1: One point seven million British Browns, so two point two

493
00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:42,240
Speaker 1: something million, you guys are kind of I think we

494
00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:42,720
Speaker 1: have a draw.

495
00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:48,199
Speaker 2: No, I think I will. I definitely win. Hello. Sorry, Sylvia, I.

496
00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:51,600
Speaker 1: Don't know you because.

497
00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:56,359
Speaker 2: Once once I said it, it was so obviously too long.

498
00:24:56,280 --> 00:24:59,840
Speaker 1: Giving it to Sylvia. You defaulted seven to eight.

499
00:24:59,880 --> 00:25:03,440
Speaker 2: I what what do they expect?

500
00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:06,120
Speaker 1: They expected more than that? I don't know. I forget

501
00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:08,120
Speaker 1: the exact I think it was like two to three

502
00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:12,479
Speaker 1: million British pounds. So they got one point seven something

503
00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:18,399
Speaker 1: million British pounds. So I mean, who's got room for

504
00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:19,159
Speaker 1: a grand piano?

505
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:26,479
Speaker 4: Yeah, paid two point two exactly million for it.

506
00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:29,600
Speaker 1: I tell you they never let you know who bought it.

507
00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:33,440
Speaker 1: Maybe Elton John bought it. That'd be my guest possible anyway,

508
00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:36,920
Speaker 1: So be a Jablonski of Defiance eats apps. Really pleasure

509
00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:39,359
Speaker 1: to catch up with you and hear your thoughts on

510
00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:41,439
Speaker 1: some of these big trends of the markets here. Hopefully

511
00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:42,560
Speaker 1: we can get you back again some day.

512
00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:43,800
Speaker 3: Thank you so much.

513
00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:52,560
Speaker 2: Thanks Thanks Sylvia.

514
00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:55,560
Speaker 1: What Goes Up will be back next week and so

515
00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:57,960
Speaker 1: then you can find us on the Bloomberg Terminal website

516
00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:01,240
Speaker 1: and app, or wherever you get your podc guests. We'd

517
00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:02,800
Speaker 1: love it if you took the time to rate and

518
00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:05,840
Speaker 1: review the show on Apple Podcasts. Some more listeners can

519
00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:08,760
Speaker 1: find us, and you can find us on Twitter, follow

520
00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:12,760
Speaker 1: me at rig Anonymous, Wildona Hirich is at Goldna Hirich.

521
00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:17,960
Speaker 1: You can also follow Bloomberg Podcasts at Podcasts. What Goes

522
00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:21,040
Speaker 1: Up is produced by Stacey Wong. Thanks for listening, See

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00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:21,600
Speaker 1: you next time.