Speaker 1: Media. You.
Speaker 2: Wow, you run a tech podcast and we're we're talking
Speaker 2: about how everything's getting bad. Yet you rely on the
Speaker 2: technology today, that the cloud based technology. You don't like backups,
Speaker 2: you don't like recording on your own personal device. It's
Speaker 2: like you don't like owning anything. It's like you don't
Speaker 2: like owning anything.
Speaker 3: Well, this is great. So I was trying to read
Speaker 3: the intro to my show Better Offline, but Juniper has
Speaker 3: decided that she will be leading us in today. Welcome
Speaker 3: to Better Offline. That's one of my very rude guests,
Speaker 3: Juniper from Kill the Computer, who is here with her
Speaker 3: much less rude co host Caleb. Caleb, thank you for
Speaker 3: joining us.
Speaker 2: Far.
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, it's a competition, and of course we've got
Speaker 3: a Refasan from Wide Left, the Football podcast plus newsletter. Well,
Speaker 3: we've come in. I brought out one together today just
Speaker 3: to complain, and I'm going to complain about the fact
Speaker 3: that my microphone just fell over perfect, which is annoying.
Speaker 3: I also want to complain I wasn't given the opportunity
Speaker 3: to invest in something called Gary's List, which is Gary
Speaker 3: Tan who currently runs y Combinator, says we're starting a
Speaker 3: citizens union for radical centrism. We approved. Local politics is
Speaker 3: wootable in San Francisco. Now we're building the community to
Speaker 3: do everywhere news, commentary, and accountability for policies that affect
Speaker 3: California and our society. And I'm just going to say,
Speaker 3: go fuck yourself, Gary if you say, if you write
Speaker 3: the words radical centrism, horrible.
Speaker 4: Man.
Speaker 3: I just love the status quo.
Speaker 2: So I've actually been looking into I've been learning a
Speaker 2: little bit about this guy recently, and like hy Combinator, I,
Speaker 2: I primarily be like by proxy of finding out about
Speaker 2: this place in San Francisco called Epic Church.
Speaker 4: Are you familiar with this?
Speaker 2: I'm immediately sold. It's it's really epic. It's it's bacon,
Speaker 2: it's it's yeah, that's all that stuff. But no, basically
Speaker 2: it's this this tech positive church, like basically an evangelical
Speaker 2: church for tech minded people. Uh, and like founders in
Speaker 2: the in the Bay Area. So like people like Trace,
Speaker 2: uh what's the name Tray Stevens go there, Gary Tan
Speaker 2: goes there. All these like weird fucking awful type people
Speaker 2: like Peter Teal. I swear to God, I I am
Speaker 2: not shinny you. Peter Teal is like one of the
Speaker 2: thought leaders of the type of people there, like.
Speaker 1: They like, how are we spelling thought actually.
Speaker 4: Thought h.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but no, it's like the worst kind of person
Speaker 2: in the tech world getting evangelical. Like they're like, this
Speaker 2: is actually where.
Speaker 5: Peter Chield got the idea to like create cliviculars. I
Speaker 5: need a new Holy.
Speaker 2: He is there, Jesus Christ clvicular is there their Virgin's
Speaker 2: birth Christ now.
Speaker 1: But it's like a whole thing now, right where like
Speaker 1: people who were like typically associated with movements that might
Speaker 1: be humanist or atheist or whatever you want to call it,
Speaker 1: have like because they're old white men have turned into
Speaker 1: like embracing some version of Christianity, right, Like even Richard Dawkins,
Speaker 1: like the Atheist Supreme or whatever the hat he wears.
Speaker 1: He's like, well, I'm a cultural Christian and like all
Speaker 1: of them have just been moving more.
Speaker 3: Cultural Christians just being American.
Speaker 1: I yes, I look, he's a piece of shit and
Speaker 1: anyway he can kind of communicate that. I think you'll
Speaker 1: take those opportunities. But like the Tech God Church feels
Speaker 1: perfect to that.
Speaker 4: I don't know, I feel like.
Speaker 1: We've used the meme U don't create the tournament nexus
Speaker 1: like way too often. But it just like every time
Speaker 1: you explained something new about what's happening in the world,
Speaker 1: like some tech billionaire has read something from a sci
Speaker 1: fi novel and it has taken like the wrong lesson
Speaker 1: from it, like again in again time, like oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: we've started a church to worship technology.
Speaker 2: Oh literally, best example of this, sorry, you can go
Speaker 2: go on, best example of this. Just because he's been
Speaker 2: on my mind a lot recently and I read a
Speaker 2: lot about his antichrist like tour that he's been doing.
Speaker 2: But Peter Tiel, he read the philosopher Rene's Gerrard and
Speaker 2: he came away with the exact opposite interpretation. I think
Speaker 2: of what you're supposed to take away from this philosopher,
Speaker 2: which is that like society and powerful people use scapegoats
Speaker 2: to uh like political scapegoats to put blame on certain
Speaker 2: people to get whatever political end that you want. And
Speaker 2: that's like a cautionary tale. It's like a cautionary tale
Speaker 2: against scapegoats. Yeah, Peter Tiel, He's like, wait, but skatecoats
Speaker 2: are kind of goaded though, like literally like we can
Speaker 2: use them to our advantage.
Speaker 5: Is this a bad time for me to announce that
Speaker 5: I'm launching my new company that's called The Ring from
Speaker 5: Lord of their.
Speaker 2: Rings, the One Ring. And you're partnering with uh surveillance company.
Speaker 2: You're partnering with Palantariah.
Speaker 5: Yeah. Under under my company, all the surveillance companies will unite.
Speaker 3: Here's the thing with this, this Gary's List thing. I've
Speaker 3: been clicking around. He writes so often, like can he
Speaker 3: posts like an oracle a day, So this is a
Speaker 3: blog that he runs. I guess as well as that.
Speaker 1: But also it's not like Emily's List for perverts, like
Speaker 1: what is Gary's List?
Speaker 6: It's it appears to be a blog in which he complains, okay,
Speaker 6: we need we need more complaining, but also a degree
Speaker 6: of it's like complaining but also saying he cares about centrism.
Speaker 3: And then he's like a, I just thought it sim
Speaker 3: City in four days without reading the fucking just what
Speaker 3: makes more gun in my mouth?
Speaker 1: Is just like he's attempting to wrangle Andrew Yang as
Speaker 1: like a guest poster.
Speaker 3: So I just don't know what possible, Like.
Speaker 1: I'm still still on the list. Idea, why is it
Speaker 1: called list? I'm actually kind of mad about this.
Speaker 3: It's a list of his posts, like that appears to
Speaker 3: be it. I just this guy is a billionaire. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I assume that means he has tens of millions of
Speaker 3: dollars liquid. You could do so much with that. You
Speaker 3: can through pretty much anything. You could have your favorite
Speaker 3: chef Mike and Mayo. I assume you eat those, and
Speaker 3: you could have your favorite band playing at the same
Speaker 3: time wherever you want it to in the world. And
Speaker 3: you're like, no, I need to make fucking blog for centrism. Yeah,
Speaker 3: let's like protect centrism from from something.
Speaker 4: It looks like he's the very anti union. He is.
Speaker 2: He's complaining about in one of these articles about how
Speaker 2: thirty thousand kids are pawns in a union war that
Speaker 2: won't even help the teachers there.
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, he is. It's exactly. He's the kind of guy.
Speaker 2: But that's the thing is, like every I feel like,
Speaker 2: not you know, maybe not every but like the majority
Speaker 2: of the most influential tech uh tech Silicon Valley person
Speaker 2: these days are turning to evangelical religion. They complain about
Speaker 2: how there's not enough centrism in the world today while
Speaker 2: they benish it and like simultaneously they benefit and work
Speaker 2: with the Trump administration, So like, what do you what
Speaker 2: are they what are they even complaining about at the
Speaker 2: end of the day, And.
Speaker 4: What do they mean?
Speaker 2: Yeah, what do they even really mean? I think they
Speaker 2: just mean that they don't like. Really, what I think
Speaker 2: it is is, I think they just don't like that
Speaker 2: people don't like them as much as people used to people.
Speaker 2: These people are mad that no one's really following following
Speaker 2: for the the like AI grift of like, oh, it's
Speaker 2: going to simultaneously AI is going to replace all of
Speaker 2: our jobs but simultaneously make the world a better place. Like,
Speaker 2: no one's really following for that, And I think they're
Speaker 2: mad about that. I think these people are genuinely upset.
Speaker 1: AI is in its gentleman science era.
Speaker 3: What the fuck does that? What do you mean? What
Speaker 3: do you mean science?
Speaker 1: It's a four minute read from Gary Tan who come
Speaker 1: on who? Okay, So it's beautiful because all of the
Speaker 1: all of the images in this article are obviously AI generated,
Speaker 1: as for all of these articles, right, because if you're
Speaker 1: gonna have an ethos being a cheap piece of shit,
Speaker 1: you might as well embrace it. But in it it
Speaker 1: has a jar labeled maple syrup. Yeah, what is and
Speaker 1: what is in the no idea?
Speaker 4: What is in the jar? But it is not maple yrup.
Speaker 3: Will include a link to this because it is just
Speaker 3: it's wonderful because it's just a bucket with maple syrup
Speaker 3: in it.
Speaker 1: I assume rings or gaskets or something.
Speaker 4: This is what it looks like. That's what it looks like.
Speaker 4: It has like some carrots in it. I don't know.
Speaker 3: Dr of this article is LMS have reset the reset
Speaker 3: the research game. The biggest breakthrough is the simple ideas
Speaker 3: anyone can try, and the easy questions haven't been answered yet,
Speaker 3: to which I say, what the fuck are you talking about?
Speaker 4: What do you mean?
Speaker 3: The biggest breakthrough the simple ideas, but the easy questions
Speaker 3: haven't been answered yet?
Speaker 4: Come on, what dot mean?
Speaker 3: I don't know. I just this guy's a billionaire. He
Speaker 3: could do anything, like you can hire a good writer, like,
Speaker 3: for example.
Speaker 1: I can't get over the idea that the gentleman's issue
Speaker 1: is that science is too hard.
Speaker 3: Like, well, I mean that is kind of the issue
Speaker 3: of science in general.
Speaker 1: Well that's a good thing, though, It's like we've gotten
Speaker 1: past the part of science that is easy, which means
Speaker 1: we have made advancements, and you have to study science
Speaker 1: to be good.
Speaker 4: I don't this feels what the fuck are we doing?
Speaker 2: He wants every dope to be able to advance the field,
Speaker 2: which like, I guess.
Speaker 5: What science in the hands of adult like me, I'm
Speaker 5: going to start the one ring company.
Speaker 2: If you do, you'll you'll accidentally create a black hole
Speaker 2: with a Hadron collider, like you will be saying, dude.
Speaker 5: Jilan Musk is the richest man on the planet and
Speaker 5: he is so fucking stupid, But I could be worse.
Speaker 2: Actually speaking of him, He's another person that's embraced this
Speaker 2: like soft religion aesthetic. He was in an interview with
Speaker 2: Katie Miller. Of course you need more demons around to
Speaker 2: talk to people like you, my Musk, and he's like, yeah,
Speaker 2: you know, I believe in God. You know, I do
Speaker 2: believe in a creator. And it's like all of this.
Speaker 2: I guess the reason I've been focusing so much on
Speaker 2: that in particular recently with all of these people like
Speaker 2: Gary Tan, all of these people, is it's all happening
Speaker 2: at the same time. They're all sort of doing this
Speaker 2: weird embrace of evangelical religion all sort of it started before. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but it's I don't know if it's like a cope
Speaker 2: thing I've been.
Speaker 1: I think some of it might be, And this might
Speaker 1: be just doing too much like armchair pop psychology, but like,
Speaker 1: I think some of it is that in order to
Speaker 1: kind of proselytize for AI, in order to evangelize their
Speaker 1: own kind of element or this thing, they have to
Speaker 1: put themselves in a frame of mind that allows them
Speaker 1: to believe in the kind of powerful myth making that
Speaker 1: is analogous to religion, especially because some of these Singularity people,
Speaker 1: which is not necessarily the same as some of these
Speaker 1: AI people, but there's a lot of overlap. I do
Speaker 1: believe that AI will become God, right like a backwards
Speaker 1: looking you know.
Speaker 3: I don't think these people believe in anything, sure, I
Speaker 3: just like that's kind of like but I guess that
Speaker 3: it's just a.
Speaker 4: Convenient label to right, Yeah, hear.
Speaker 1: The word believe just serves as like an analog for
Speaker 1: telling us the things that they think we should believe, right, Like,
Speaker 1: I don't really care if they actually believe this shit.
Speaker 1: I care that they're telling people this ship.
Speaker 5: There's a really good profile on Peter Teel. I think
Speaker 5: it wasn't wired about how he uses like Christian apocalyptic
Speaker 5: end Time's imagery and a lot of his speeches, and
Speaker 5: I was really interested in all that, which we talked
Speaker 5: about on our Showju.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the piece about Rene Gerard the philosopher that
Speaker 2: he like sort of go on, sorry.
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's it, just he does that and then Gerard
Speaker 5: and then you know he's very big on Carl Schmidt.
Speaker 5: I'll let you if you know who that is.
Speaker 7: God.
Speaker 3: It comes back to a very simple thing for me,
Speaker 3: which is, these are not things you do if you
Speaker 3: have anything you enjoy. If I'm sitting alone, it's been
Speaker 3: a long day I have. I can name five movies
Speaker 3: and six video games I could. I've been weary watching
Speaker 3: Personal Interest excellent show makes me so happy. Wat you
Speaker 3: go over and it's awesome. But I drink a diet
Speaker 3: coke with that. Wow, I feel awesome. These people like
Speaker 3: I need to take on a new religion. I need
Speaker 3: to create a pro centrism blog, and only then will
Speaker 3: I possibly be happy. It's just, it's just. I would
Speaker 3: say it was sad if I cared for these people
Speaker 3: in any way, shape or for It's just.
Speaker 4: I hear, Oh, they're into religion.
Speaker 3: No, they're not. They just they They sit around like
Speaker 3: board motherfuckers, tugging on the winkies, going.
Speaker 4: Oh, what's going on in the world.
Speaker 3: What Jesus was real God was to gpu. We've got
Speaker 3: ndre GPUs. He put the GPS together, make the a
Speaker 3: g A. I don't know what that really means. But anyway,
Speaker 3: who's in your email in box, Peter Jeffrey Epstein. Yeah,
Speaker 3: by the way, here's here's the thing. I'll say, jmail.
Speaker 3: I think the people who made jmail should get a
Speaker 3: Pulitzer for sure. The people that made jmail, which is
Speaker 3: the searchable Epstein database, really really like they deserve a
Speaker 3: Pulitzer here. And also so does the guy who the
Speaker 3: final email that Jeffrey Epstein received on j ee project
Speaker 3: at yahoo dot com was just like called cod Cody
Speaker 3: Rudland and he said lol, good riddance and the subject was.
Speaker 4: Fucking buzz.
Speaker 1: Buzzerbe Jeffrey Epstein.
Speaker 3: Also, jeff got invited to a Michael Clayton screening. Anyway,
Speaker 3: I don't want to get into Epstein because I know
Speaker 3: that all.
Speaker 4: Three is a whole different thing.
Speaker 3: It's just we're in such a weird spot of the
Speaker 3: moment with all this AI shit as well, because there
Speaker 3: was that something big is happening piece.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I wanted to kill myself with that.
Speaker 1: Oh I haven't heard about this peace. I also want
Speaker 1: to be in a state where I'm going to kill myself.
Speaker 4: Tell me.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, it's a piece by this guy who's like
Speaker 3: a scammer, guy called Matt Schumer, who back in twenty
Speaker 3: twenty four claimed his reflection seventy b.
Speaker 1: Wait is this is this when the AI like tried
Speaker 1: to post something to like get up and it got rigid.
Speaker 3: No, no, that's a different thing entirely.
Speaker 4: That was just the scam of the week before. Yeah,
Speaker 4: that was no.
Speaker 3: No, that one I'll get to in a second.
Speaker 4: Though.
Speaker 3: This was the one where it was like a four thousand,
Speaker 3: seven hundred word blog. That's my fault.
Speaker 4: I read it. No, I did read this.
Speaker 5: Yeah I didn't.
Speaker 1: I remember four thousand, seven hundred because I put it
Speaker 1: into a word counter yep, because I was like, what
Speaker 1: the fuck is this?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 1: No, it sucks, but yeah, but we have listeners they
Speaker 1: should also know what this is.
Speaker 3: So I mean I heard about it on the monologue
Speaker 3: last week. So there and then the most people said
Speaker 3: don't don't worry about being angry, and one person was like,
Speaker 3: you need to be less angry. It's just I think
Speaker 3: we're entering like a hysteriozone. And I actually my favorite
Speaker 3: thing about that blog by far was watching two or
Speaker 3: three other people try and do similar blogs and just
Speaker 3: nothing happened. People be actually, yeah, it's actually, it's actually crazier.
Speaker 3: It's actually even bigger and crazier.
Speaker 2: I think the thing that I thought was even weirder
Speaker 2: about that piece is there was a lot of people
Speaker 2: I do genuinely respect that like shared that piece and
Speaker 2: they were like, oh my god, like everyone needs to
Speaker 2: read this, like typically you know, very skeptical people that
Speaker 2: have very good takes.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, like all these people.
Speaker 5: Yeah, because I said some nuts and nice things about
Speaker 5: my friend Chris Tredulu, So you're a dollar.
Speaker 1: The thing about this article that like really gets me
Speaker 1: article blog post unvetted piece of AI because it is
Speaker 1: clearly written by AI, by the way, like which should
Speaker 1: not be shocking given that it's an AI evangelism piece.
Speaker 1: Of course it's written by AI, which, by the way,
Speaker 1: Cleveland dot Com uh released it like an editor's thing
Speaker 1: today oh god, yeah, we'll get to where. Second, they
Speaker 1: turned a journalism candidate had turned down a job with them,
Speaker 1: because the Cleveland dot com is like the newspaper of Cleveland, right,
Speaker 1: and a student who is trying to get a job
Speaker 1: with them turned down the job because they don't have
Speaker 1: reporters writing articles. They have an AI rewrite specialist who
Speaker 1: turns their material into drafts, so they just have the
Speaker 1: reporters do like sourcing and quote gathering and stuff like that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and the editorial explaining this and explaining that journalism schools
Speaker 1: are failing students by making them think they should write.
Speaker 1: He's also obviously written by AI. But back to this
Speaker 1: article by Schumer, so it is obviously written by AI.
Speaker 1: But it like keeps on coming up with these examples
Speaker 1: that like are contextually actually very poor examples of the
Speaker 1: thing that they're trying to But there's like a million
Speaker 1: of them, right. It's like a gift gallop of like
Speaker 1: AI benchmarks that are meant to create this sense that
Speaker 1: AI is like the like smarter than PhDs are past
Speaker 1: the bar exam, and it's like, well, when you.
Speaker 3: Sorry, also PhDs, listen to this, and I will say this.
Speaker 1: Not very smart people. I know, if you you've not met.
Speaker 3: Enough PhDs, if you're like PhD level in time, not
Speaker 3: to say they're every PhD is stupid, but not to
Speaker 3: say every PhD is smart either.
Speaker 4: Well, okay, I will I'll say this.
Speaker 1: Ben Carson is a gifted neurosurgeon, right, Like they think
Speaker 1: about that?
Speaker 4: Well was it was?
Speaker 1: But like think about that people, right, yeah, and and
Speaker 1: and PhDs are incredibly talented within but like even with
Speaker 1: analogous specialists, like we've seen PhDs in like chemistry go
Speaker 1: come out and write books about how like AIDS isn't real, right,
Speaker 1: Like chemistry is pretty close to biology, and you still
Speaker 1: got that fucking wrong, right, But regardless of like that,
Speaker 1: like stuff like past the bar Exam is like in
Speaker 1: the thing and it's like contextually it's actually not that
Speaker 1: interesting because they passed something called the Universal bar Exam,
Speaker 1: which no individual state use it.
Speaker 4: There's like a million other things.
Speaker 3: So the best the best thing in it was him
Speaker 3: saying that he cited this METATR study. Oh it doesn't
Speaker 3: even say it, well, no, no, But what's great about it
Speaker 3: is it's like it's like tasks that an AI can do.
Speaker 3: The involve it working autonomously for hours, hours and hours
Speaker 3: right when you go and click on it, it's actually
Speaker 3: tasks that it succeeds at fifty percent of the time. Yeah,
Speaker 3: and how the.
Speaker 1: Meta article or whatever it was is absolutely mischaracterized, like
Speaker 1: egregiously mischaracterized, like to the point if we had journalism
Speaker 1: still and this was run in a newspaper that cared
Speaker 1: about stuff, which what a bygone era that we pretended
Speaker 1: to have.
Speaker 4: So sad.
Speaker 2: Another part of this whole conversation is that the thing
Speaker 2: that's been pissing me off for a while now, but
Speaker 2: especially recently with this like increased hysteria around, like oh
Speaker 2: AI is like the big thing is gonna happen soon
Speaker 2: is it's like people keep saying that it's smart. It's
Speaker 2: that it's going to be smarter than humans, maybe even
Speaker 2: that it is smarter than humans already, when it's like,
Speaker 2: there is no unless I'm missing something there, It has
Speaker 2: not shown any level of original intelligence. What it can
Speaker 2: do is that it's just more a very efficiently coming
Speaker 2: through databases of words and like just information. It's very
Speaker 2: efficient at that, But that doesn't prove intelligence as far
Speaker 2: as I'm aware. So whatever people say AI is intelligent.
Speaker 2: I lose my fucking mind because it's not. It's just fast.
Speaker 2: It's a fast database search that like it's just like
Speaker 2: pukes back out at you.
Speaker 5: Someone who is it? Okay, yeah, Matt Schumer specific and
Speaker 5: when you posted on Bluesky of the Day that he
Speaker 5: was the guy who made that awful video game this
Speaker 5: is the future.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah. If you've seen this listeners, it's the video
Speaker 3: game thing where it's like it's like two minutes and
Speaker 3: just it is insane, like the US changes.
Speaker 2: Oh yes, wait the game the oh yeah.
Speaker 1: And like the guy falls off the bridge and the
Speaker 1: guys like really impressed that the AI put him back
Speaker 1: on a bridge. But it's a completely new bridge and
Speaker 1: a completely new f cash between the town.
Speaker 2: Lakito could do that in Mario sixty four, thirty years ago.
Speaker 3: Dude, like, come onal today. Yes you can vibe code.
Speaker 3: Here's how to get started. Fucking start and it's like
Speaker 3: you go and look, it's like sample task merch files,
Speaker 3: extract information, clean and convert files, fix finicky images, get
Speaker 3: rid of garbage. Well, I'm fucking reading some and it's
Speaker 3: I just feel like we're in this hysteria mode where
Speaker 3: just every day. There's just this bizarre escalation of like, wow,
Speaker 3: AI is so powerful and look it's replacing workers. But
Speaker 3: then you click on the article, it's like, well, fields
Speaker 3: that involve maybe being affected by AI have seen less
Speaker 3: entry level hires, and that will be on the front
Speaker 3: of the Financial Times. Like that's just like, that's what
Speaker 3: we're doing. Every other era of actual innovation, they'd be like, yeah,
Speaker 3: you can, like you have a dear cleon perhaps not Tesla.
Speaker 3: Look a very nice camera in a phone. Look at
Speaker 3: the photos. Look how good the photos are. Wow, this
Speaker 3: phone can can use email. Now that's a huge deal.
Speaker 3: This is like yeah, if you squint really hard, it's
Speaker 3: almost something.
Speaker 6: I think.
Speaker 1: The thing that gets me is if you which I'm
Speaker 1: sure someone has done this, if you take this humor
Speaker 1: article and feed it into an AI and said, hey,
Speaker 1: can you produce a counter article at coach point point,
Speaker 1: it would be equally as compelling.
Speaker 2: Right, Yes, that's an interesting idea. Actually I don't like
Speaker 2: using AI, but I would love to see that.
Speaker 3: I will be honest, I actually did that perfect seeing
Speaker 3: Oh my god, I did it using his own his
Speaker 3: actually his own thing. Let's see, let's see if I
Speaker 3: got this yeah, because I did it, and I pulled
Speaker 3: up hyper write, which is his dog shit, his dogship.
Speaker 3: AI starts up and it basically said, yeah, you know,
Speaker 3: it's mostly just I don't have it in front of me.
Speaker 3: I'm sorry, I don't. I didn't prepare.
Speaker 1: Journalism, and I know I know I've already had to think.
Speaker 1: We have a real journalist Jim here too.
Speaker 3: Guise me. Actually this is just me straight up complaining,
Speaker 3: which I know is different to usual. I write like
Speaker 3: ten to fifteen thousand word analyzes of things, and I
Speaker 3: am so detailed, and I go through years of earnings
Speaker 3: and shit, and this guy's like, wow, you know, the
Speaker 3: computer is just fucking so crazy now, and like do
Speaker 3: you read that? Like AI is learning from itself and
Speaker 3: like it's amazing, like and look at this, and people
Speaker 3: are coming themselves reading it. They're they're like, we need
Speaker 3: this guy on national television. And then he's then he says, oh,
Speaker 3: I'm not trying to scare people. Fuck you, you little worm.
Speaker 1: So I do have a question about these AIS, because
Speaker 1: I don't get these AI startups, and I know you
Speaker 1: don't fundamentally understand, but I think you know more than me,
Speaker 1: which is if there's only like eight or nine like
Speaker 1: models out there, like deep Seak and Kimmi and what
Speaker 1: what the fuck is in AI start Like they take
Speaker 1: these models and they would give us a prompt beforehand.
Speaker 1: So it's federal organized for the tech Okay.
Speaker 3: From the very from the very lowest AI startup to
Speaker 3: the most successful ones like any sphere who makes cursor.
Speaker 3: It is much more complex at the top end, but
Speaker 3: it is prompt engineering. It is finding ways to translate
Speaker 3: what you say to it into a prompt that the
Speaker 3: model will then use to do something like.
Speaker 1: That one of like the eight or nine existing models
Speaker 1: like Yes, Deep Seek.
Speaker 3: And which is what's really funny with this guy's start
Speaker 3: upbout hyper Rite, which is by a company called other
Speaker 3: Side AI is they raised two point six million dollars
Speaker 3: in let's see in November twelve, twenty twenty. Then they
Speaker 3: raised another let's see other Side another two point eight
Speaker 3: million in March twenty twenty three. Where the fuck is
Speaker 3: the money?
Speaker 4: Where is it?
Speaker 5: Where is it?
Speaker 3: Where did it go when you used it?
Speaker 1: Did you pay for it?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 4: God?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 1: So yeah, okay, now, yeah, that's a great question.
Speaker 4: What the fuck?
Speaker 3: No, I truly don't know and it's it's a the
Speaker 3: current itera. This is from twenty twenty three, the current
Speaker 3: iteration of hyperwrite, which is a Chrome extension with personalization
Speaker 3: and context awareness launched in early twenty twenty two. It's
Speaker 3: a Chrome ex This is the fucking guy, this is
Speaker 3: the this is I think it just shows that none
Speaker 3: of these AI boosters actually believe in anything, because I
Speaker 3: don't know. When I see someone doing AI criticism and
Speaker 3: they're just making shit up, I'm like, hey, don't do that.
Speaker 3: It weakens our argument. These people are like, yeah, just
Speaker 3: just lying, it's fine.
Speaker 4: Just wow. I agree.
Speaker 3: I saw Alexis o'hennian talking about it, one of my
Speaker 3: favorite guys who's just fallen from for them from grace.
Speaker 3: Like his big previous investment is this thing called Doodles,
Speaker 3: Doodles n f T that he claims to NFT. No, yeah,
Speaker 3: he's like a big NFT guy.
Speaker 1: Do we think doodles is better or worse than V Friends?
Speaker 3: What's V Friends? Oh? Gary Vee's thing? No, No, it's
Speaker 3: it's the friends. Is Gary Vaynerchuk? What is Gary Vaynerchuk
Speaker 3: doing If he isn't.
Speaker 1: An AI, he's a AI. We I don't even have
Speaker 1: to look that up. I feel it in my bones. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he also has Gary Yeah, like doing enough in your
Speaker 1: life for what.
Speaker 3: He sounds like Charlie from It's Always Donny in Philadelphia.
Speaker 2: Why do why do these tech people, despite being like
Speaker 2: a lot of like very health focused to like a
Speaker 2: degree that is unnerving, they always look sickly. They always
Speaker 2: look just very wet and sick Brian Johnson. I think
Speaker 2: did that on purpose, Like I think he wants to
Speaker 2: look like that, so yeah, and he succeeded. He is
Speaker 2: really good at looking very sickly and and wet.
Speaker 3: So I think what it is is these people, in
Speaker 3: my experience work insane hours. Now work is a kind
Speaker 3: of a relative term, but like they're in meetings or
Speaker 3: dinners or lunches or whatever, or just staring at X
Speaker 3: the everything app four to seven.
Speaker 4: That's a lot, dude, Yeah, that one.
Speaker 3: No, I mean, like I can't judge someone for doing that,
Speaker 3: but like they don't have a time when they're sitting
Speaker 3: around like taking an edible and watching YouTube of manual
Speaker 3: cats like palace Cats. Right, they don't have joy in
Speaker 3: their lives like that, but they are.
Speaker 1: Emerge from their process tired and wet because they're tired
Speaker 1: and damp, just like just like visibly moist, visibly moist
Speaker 1: or terrifyingly dry.
Speaker 5: They all like they have a disease that they have
Speaker 5: to explain to you. You've never heard of a You
Speaker 5: just looking at your phone and you're like, damn, dude,
Speaker 5: that's crazy.
Speaker 3: Ye yeah, yeah, man, that's crazy.
Speaker 2: Doesn't Jernan Peterson have one of those diseases that's just
Speaker 2: like sort of low key fake. Like his daughter's like, yeah,
Speaker 2: he has this thing and then you look into it
Speaker 2: and it's just like sort of fake or something like that.
Speaker 1: June Okay, I was under the impression that she had
Speaker 1: induced it. So that's that's which is slightly different than fake.
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, his cider psychosis.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he has some weird shit going on. He has
Speaker 2: a ton of different things.
Speaker 3: I just it's just no one happy would defend a
Speaker 3: corporation this much. I say this is reading forums of
Speaker 3: people arguing about video games for years. I even then.
Speaker 3: The idea of being so desperate to protect the idea
Speaker 3: that corporations can make more money is so very fucking sad.
Speaker 3: But it's kind of it's turned into everything now. I mean,
Speaker 3: I saw on Twitter the other day, people gambling on traffic.
Speaker 2: Why why why why why?
Speaker 1: I don't understand, Will Menica, what is the target functioned? Like,
Speaker 1: how do you how does the book verify that you
Speaker 1: want or lost your band?
Speaker 3: It's one of the I don't think this is like
Speaker 3: a particularly nuanced that, Like it's like it's like people gambling.
Speaker 3: Let's see how many cars will go through in a
Speaker 3: particular period.
Speaker 2: People need hobbies, man, you've got to call the hotline.
Speaker 3: Man.
Speaker 4: That's not no.
Speaker 3: I'm quoting Will Menica of Chapo here who posted this
Speaker 3: about a sport where guys just run into each other.
Speaker 3: And his post was just this is the sport they
Speaker 3: watching RoboCop and it's like it's like it's just robocops stuff.
Speaker 3: Now it's just prediction markets. I saw, oh god, we're
Speaker 3: gonna do a prediction market episode. Got a blog from
Speaker 3: Barns that, Yeah, it's fucking great. I love prediction markets.
Speaker 4: I mean they're getting worse. They're getting so so so bad.
Speaker 3: When someone was talking about betting and whether a rocket.
Speaker 2: Would ex yeah, the new the rocket that's I don't
Speaker 2: know when it's launching, but it was yeah that like
Speaker 2: someone I I screenshot this reply, in particular from Pollymarket.
Speaker 2: Let me find it really quick. I swear, I just
Speaker 2: I just did it, and I'm gonna I'm gonna.
Speaker 4: Use one too, not even like a SpaceX. Yeah it
Speaker 4: was disgusting.
Speaker 3: Yeah it's Pollymarket. And like, I don't know how long
Speaker 3: all of that will work, Like how long before that
Speaker 3: gets outlawed by someone? But I think something that might
Speaker 3: accelerate that process is someone getting killed because of it.
Speaker 5: Yeah, like Garan's awful sun in contact is going to
Speaker 5: blow up that rocket?
Speaker 1: Dude?
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, Like so so what I saw someone said
Speaker 2: that sorry to be a sculd but wagering on people
Speaker 2: dying should not be legal, which I think is the
Speaker 2: most moral and correct in the world. That's fucking crazy.
Speaker 2: But i'nna that person is fine, very very good take person.
Speaker 4: Yeah, great take.
Speaker 2: But then Polymarket replied to that, saying, to clarify, this
Speaker 2: was a market about a potential booster stage rupture to
Speaker 2: find hardware failure scenario, not about the orion crue capsule
Speaker 2: or astrona safety. This was not a market on crew
Speaker 2: injury or loss of life. But like, I don't know, man,
Speaker 2: I feel like if you are gambling on any stage
Speaker 2: of this sort of exploding a disaster, that's sort of
Speaker 2: gambling on disaster. We saw that there was gambling and
Speaker 2: prediction markets about Palisades fire, how long it was going
Speaker 2: to last, how far it was going to reach. So
Speaker 2: like the idea that people gamble on disasters is not like,
Speaker 2: oh wow, this took us by surprise that a lot
Speaker 2: of people thought this would happen. They've it's been happening
Speaker 2: for over a year now. People have been gambling on
Speaker 2: disaster for over a year now.
Speaker 3: Well, Nick Devoor is the blog from Barrus who's going
Speaker 3: to join us and as in not today, don't worry,
Speaker 3: it's just gonna punch, just just fucking like a like
Speaker 3: a halftime substitution right now. He made the point it's
Speaker 3: like inevitable that someone uses this to manipulate someone's murder,
Speaker 3: Like they create a market where someone says, Okay, yeah,
Speaker 3: you're going to like this, but will this person live
Speaker 3: or die on May thirteenth? And on some level it's
Speaker 3: like this will encourage someone to get killed. Like, I
Speaker 3: know this sounds extreme, but polymark. Nick also made this
Speaker 3: point where it's like polymarket already encourages inside of trading.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean we saw this with with like in
Speaker 1: addition to the Maduro stuff, right, but we saw this
Speaker 1: with like Pam Bondy's press conference times where she got
Speaker 1: within like thirty seconds of that, which is like you
Speaker 1: could say the markets hit that really well, but I'm
Speaker 1: not gonna say that. I think she knew someone was
Speaker 1: gonna make money on the under right, Well, what was
Speaker 1: the what was the It was how long a particular
Speaker 1: press conference on a particular would go. And it's like,
Speaker 1: you know, a couple hours and then some and and
Speaker 1: she abruptly, like in the middle of like a sentence,
Speaker 1: she just shut it down thirty seconds, within uh, within
Speaker 1: thirty seconds of like the timeline to hit the mark.
Speaker 1: And so a bunch of people who had we shouldn't
Speaker 1: say bet on the ound because it's not betting, right,
Speaker 1: who had who had purchased contract shares on the events
Speaker 1: result of it being less than a certain amount of time,
Speaker 1: made a ton of money out of it.
Speaker 4: Yeah. So, like people are.
Speaker 1: Already either actively manipulating it or not doing anything to
Speaker 1: prevent the appearance of manipulating it.
Speaker 3: Like when.
Speaker 1: Jannis Tatakupo for the Milwaukee Bucks. Who's now like on
Speaker 1: the chair or something for Call.
Speaker 4: She yeah, he's a chair board member of CALCI.
Speaker 1: Now yeah, so like he had like demanded a trade.
Speaker 1: It sounded like from the Bucks to an organization that
Speaker 1: will actually win games, which is understandable. And there was
Speaker 1: this whole trade market in Call. She had a bunch
Speaker 1: of different markets for for Yannis and where he was
Speaker 1: going to go and whether or not he was going
Speaker 1: to stay, and ultimately he didn't get traded. He stayed
Speaker 1: with the Bucks, and everybody who would bet that he
Speaker 1: was going to stay with the Bucks had made a
Speaker 1: ton of money. And then right after that he announced
Speaker 1: he was on the board of Calls. And it's like,
Speaker 1: I don't know that Yannis or any of his entourage
Speaker 1: or whoever put any money on on any of these things,
Speaker 1: but that sure looks fucking awful, right.
Speaker 2: They probably did. I would be I would bet that,
Speaker 2: I would imagine I would bet I would take that
Speaker 2: bet on calshe that they did.
Speaker 3: I just I every I think that there is goodness
Speaker 3: in our future and that good things will happen, but
Speaker 3: I think on the way that there are going to
Speaker 3: be there's going to be something called the Calshie murders.
Speaker 3: Maybe yeah, yeah, no, for sure, there's good like we
Speaker 3: already we've already thankfully I've got to use my term
Speaker 3: son of Sam Oltman for an AI psychosis murder.
Speaker 1: I mean very sad, I mean like no, terrible, but
Speaker 1: also like nice nice.
Speaker 3: But it's just it feels like we're in this weird
Speaker 3: golf where everyone is desperately trying all the money is
Speaker 3: trying to pretend that all of this is so fucking sick.
Speaker 3: When you look at it, even as a booster, it's
Speaker 3: like great, coding is fast, I guess yay, it's also
Speaker 3: so expensive and no one wants the no one wants
Speaker 3: to do the math. Yeah.
Speaker 1: That's like the other thing about this is like all
Speaker 1: of the booster arguments for AI coming for different industries
Speaker 1: and jobs or being able to perform different tasks or whatever. Right,
Speaker 1: all of the arguments about its increasing capability rely on
Speaker 1: an assumption that the progress quote unquote progress is measured
Speaker 1: by their own benchmarks anyway that it's made so far
Speaker 1: will continue at an exponential rate in the same way
Speaker 1: that we envision technology tends to, which is not really
Speaker 1: like if you look at the progress of like battery technology,
Speaker 1: It does not follow the same fucking It's just not
Speaker 1: like that. But the way that people seem to imagine
Speaker 1: technology is just like in crazy, you know, exponential it
Speaker 1: spikes up until they they.
Speaker 4: Put that a some.
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah exactly.
Speaker 3: It's just when you look at the chot Disco sales
Speaker 3: will go off.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it'll just double every year.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but people will assume this, and they'll make the
Speaker 1: argument that it will without understanding like what it took
Speaker 1: to get to the shitty place it is now and
Speaker 1: how we're at the edge of that, like we can't
Speaker 1: actually devote the more resources to make these models better.
Speaker 3: So what's funny is there was because Matt Hughes, who's
Speaker 3: my editor, who's long suffering, by which I mean I no,
Speaker 3: I made him watch a two and a half hour
Speaker 3: long Dario ama Day interview. Sorry sorry, but he found
Speaker 3: one fascinating quote in here. This is Warrio ama Day,
Speaker 3: CEO of Anthropic. Even though a part of my brain
Speaker 3: wonders if it's going to keep growing ten x, I
Speaker 3: can't buy one trillion dollars a year of computing in
Speaker 3: twenty twenty seven. If I'm off by a year in
Speaker 3: that rate of growth, or if the growth rate is
Speaker 3: five x a year instead of tens a year, then
Speaker 3: you go bankrupt. And previously he said, if my revenue
Speaker 3: is not one trillion dollars, if it's even eight hundred billion,
Speaker 3: there's no force on earth, there's no hedge on earth
Speaker 3: that could stop me from going bankrupt if I buy
Speaker 3: that much compute Why did clear? Well, No, this this interview,
Speaker 3: by the way, is fucking sick. It's so funny. It
Speaker 3: was the he used this example where he says he
Speaker 3: has he describes having better than fifty percent gross margins.
Speaker 3: But that's because the way he evaluates gross margins is
Speaker 3: based on how much a model cost to train and
Speaker 3: how much the model made money, like how much money.
Speaker 1: He separates out the training cost in the inference cost
Speaker 1: and buckets out future training cost against a different margin,
Speaker 1: and so like, I, you know, if you did sign
Speaker 1: it like four point five or whatever, the amount of
Speaker 1: revenue SIGN at four point five brings in is greater
Speaker 1: than the inference plus training cost of SIGN at four
Speaker 1: point five. And he's ignoring the training cost of like
Speaker 1: four point six, which is like ten times larger, and
Speaker 1: it always needs to be.
Speaker 3: He's ignoring the reinforcement learning and the updates they have
Speaker 3: to do, which is also a training cost. But actually,
Speaker 3: I take it back. Here's how Dario Amity talks about profitability.
Speaker 3: Let me quote him here. Profitability is this kind of
Speaker 3: weird thing in this field. I don't think in this
Speaker 3: field profitability is actually a measure of spending down versus
Speaker 3: investing in the business. I actually think profitability happens when
Speaker 3: you underestimated the amount of demand you were going to get,
Speaker 3: and loss happens when you've overrested, madd the amount of
Speaker 3: demand you were going to get because you're buying the
Speaker 3: data centers ahead of time. No, Dario, profitability is when
Speaker 3: you make more money than you spent you underestimated.
Speaker 4: That's such like a.
Speaker 7: Fake smart guy way to say that they can demand
Speaker 7: you were going to get, Like, yeah, I guess the
Speaker 7: price would go up in a world where your supply
Speaker 7: doesn't meet demand.
Speaker 2: They said that they locked capitalism too, and they unlocked
Speaker 2: a new version of profitability.
Speaker 4: That's awesome.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he said that these are stylized facts. What that's
Speaker 3: that is his term. I'm just if I'm an investor
Speaker 3: and I read my investment saying stylized facts. I'm stylizing
Speaker 3: a nine millimeter in my mouth. It's just like I
Speaker 3: I am. I think things are going to get crazier,
Speaker 3: not in the actual outcomes, but the things they're going
Speaker 3: to start promising, Like I can't. I hope Aanthropic tries
Speaker 3: to go public just so I can see what insane
Speaker 3: definition of gross margin they have, because I don't think
Speaker 3: it's like revenue minus cogs. I think it's a model
Speaker 3: plus n plus divided by seventy divided by seven thousand
Speaker 3: plus two million plus one. And they're like, yep, look,
Speaker 3: numbers higher than last year. What do you think? And
Speaker 3: the investors who just are I assume catatonic, like they're
Speaker 3: pitched in this sleep. I just it's all gonna I
Speaker 3: don't see how this doesn't come down. I'm just like,
Speaker 3: look at every time I look at the numbers, I
Speaker 3: feel crazy. But when I read their definitions for it,
Speaker 3: they just go, yeah, just you know, work out.
Speaker 2: I so, so, I don't know if you guys have
Speaker 2: been noticing this particularly since Also, I know you guys
Speaker 2: like this football the Super Bowl ever since the Super Bowl, Nay, yeah,
Speaker 2: brand new to you. But there was a ton of
Speaker 2: AI generated ads in the Super Bowl. Since then, I've
Speaker 2: seen three different companies, one of them being Liquid Death,
Speaker 2: another being Noodles and Company, and another one I'm blinking
Speaker 2: on which what what the other? What the other one
Speaker 2: I saw was? But I saw this is after the
Speaker 2: Super Bowl, different companies using AI generated fucking ads. And
Speaker 2: they're horrible. They're horrifying, They're awful. They're so bad they
Speaker 2: don't make me want to even look at the brands anymore.
Speaker 4: And it's like, I my theory.
Speaker 2: I haven't confirmed this, I haven't looked into it, but
Speaker 2: I'm assuming a lot of these AI generative AI models,
Speaker 2: these these these companies, whoever runs it, are striking deals
Speaker 2: with these companies to do like, hey, like make this
Speaker 2: next ad campaign entirely on us, entirely on us, because
Speaker 2: in these ads they do mention that they're AI generated.
Speaker 2: I think the Noodles and Company once says it like
Speaker 2: in the corner it's like AI. There's like a little pun.
Speaker 2: It's been a menu since I've seen that, but there's
Speaker 2: like a little pun to be like, oh it's AI.
Speaker 2: So I think these are like very obviously ad campaigns
Speaker 2: to try to be like hey, wow, AI is everywhere,
Speaker 2: isn't it. It's crazy how everywhere AI is and everyone
Speaker 2: loves AI.
Speaker 3: It's an attempt to just get attention because like it's
Speaker 3: basically like, look how much this sucks but it cost us?
Speaker 1: Well that's what That's explicitly what Liquid Death did in
Speaker 1: their ad right. They were like very like they thought
Speaker 1: they could kind of get away with being like tongue
Speaker 1: in cheek about using AI and and it like kind
Speaker 1: of fits their brand image to be kind of irreverent
Speaker 1: or whatever, and so then they made it terrifying, horrifying.
Speaker 4: Uncorble ad.
Speaker 1: The worst about was it their energy drink.
Speaker 4: It's just one of their drunks.
Speaker 3: Have you seen the Darren Aronovski AI generated thing this six?
Speaker 3: So if you haven't heard about this, dear listeners, unbelievably
Speaker 3: big fucking hack. Darren Aronovski is making a He's making
Speaker 3: a thing called On this Day seventeen seventy six, A
Speaker 3: real is telling the story of America's first meme. I
Speaker 3: didn't learn any American history. I'm not going to start today.
Speaker 3: They handed out some shit to some people. I guess
Speaker 3: just like there's some history unless thingers.
Speaker 1: Like fuck undersinding of seventeen seventy six. Is that it's
Speaker 1: a giant Boyce piece really.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, no, So this movie it's it's
Speaker 3: called On This Day seventeen seventy six, America's first meme
Speaker 3: is born when Thomas Payne arrives from England. He's encouraged
Speaker 3: by Benjamin Franklin to write what others hesitate to say.
Speaker 3: The resulting pamphlet sends ripples through from the colonies to
Speaker 3: the other side of the Atlantic, and what was once
Speaker 3: unthinkable becomes irrefutable, as in, I don't know that he's
Speaker 3: a huge fucking hack. There is a bit, there are
Speaker 3: some really good bits. Nit Thomas Payne, the collar of
Speaker 3: his shirt changes between shots. They have to constantly cut
Speaker 3: shots early because the breaks down after six seconds or whatever. Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's really expensive to have the long shots.
Speaker 3: There's a great bit in it where they hand out
Speaker 3: common sense and as they hand it out, as they
Speaker 3: pick it up, it goes from saying America to like, wow,
Speaker 3: just like language because.
Speaker 1: Well, unintentionally kind of apropos, I would say, but yeah.
Speaker 3: But apparently they're releasing it on Netflix's YouTube.
Speaker 4: Oh god YouTube. Yeah, it's like really like the Family sucks.
Speaker 3: What it's like the family Guy Ringo star thing with
Speaker 3: like we'll put the song on the fridge.
Speaker 4: But I haven't seen more of it.
Speaker 3: They put out a few bits of it, and then
Speaker 3: they just stopped releasing it, probably because of all the
Speaker 3: comments that said this looks like dog shit, kill yourself.
Speaker 3: Like it's mostly just that.
Speaker 1: So like the thing is, like you could if it
Speaker 1: didn't have this insane cost and and and ethical problem
Speaker 1: associated with it, you could convince me that, like that
Speaker 1: one Marvel opening for whatever the fuck it was with
Speaker 1: the scrolls right where it's unsettling and it changes a
Speaker 1: little bit every.
Speaker 4: Couple of seconds, what is this? There was there was.
Speaker 1: It might have been doctor what it was doctor Strange?
Speaker 1: That wouldn't have been very helpful. I thought it was
Speaker 1: like there's a Marvel TV show where the opening because
Speaker 1: it's a's a show. I haven't watched anything after.
Speaker 4: What's it?
Speaker 8: Like thee Yeah, it's invasion which involves the scrolls right, Yeah,
Speaker 8: And so the opening for that was it with the
Speaker 8: early version of like AI video generation And it is uncomfortable,
Speaker 8: I remember, and.
Speaker 1: And and it's changing a lot and you can't keep
Speaker 1: a stable image and it's like, well, you know, there
Speaker 1: are a bunch of problems both like environmentally and ethically
Speaker 1: from a later's standpoint, that should stop this from happening.
Speaker 1: But esthetically this does make sense for this show. Why
Speaker 1: the fuck would you need that for Thomas Paine to
Speaker 1: common set? Like, it's just like a bad esthetics.
Speaker 4: What are you doing?
Speaker 3: It's because you're a fucking hack? Yeah, okay, well yes,
Speaker 3: no that is a good Just what pride do you
Speaker 3: have in your work? If you put this out? If
Speaker 3: I was a filmmaker and it looked like this, I
Speaker 3: would just stop making movie.
Speaker 2: Like It's just it completely devalues whatever catalog he has.
Speaker 3: I mean I like it.
Speaker 5: I mean I actually like some of Aronofsky's stuff. But
Speaker 5: if you know anything about him at all, like this
Speaker 5: makes total sense. The guy is a just has.
Speaker 1: He has he done anything good after Black Swan?
Speaker 4: I like, I mean he did, don't like it. I
Speaker 4: haven't seen it.
Speaker 2: I mean he did the Well. I haven't seen the Well.
Speaker 2: I was going to see cot Stealing. I just never
Speaker 2: got around to it. It seemed like it could be.
Speaker 3: It's exactly that kind of movie. It's exactly The.
Speaker 5: Swan. What was that the wrestler came out for Black Swan.
Speaker 5: I think he's got some OK movies, but he also steals.
Speaker 5: He loves stealing Atham's careers.
Speaker 3: Wow, there you go, so well, there you go. It's
Speaker 3: very appropriate. I also love the idea that they used
Speaker 3: AI for the opening of Secret Invasion, which had like
Speaker 3: Samuel L. Jackson in it. I don't know, like very
Speaker 3: expensive actors, so years of footage, like you just cut
Speaker 3: together without spending any money. I don't know.
Speaker 2: It's I think it's the thing where it's like I've
Speaker 2: been trying to like figure out exactly why because I've
Speaker 2: felt this and a lot of people have felt that
Speaker 2: AI just feels bad, and I've drilled down, I think
Speaker 2: on on like as much as I can, because there's
Speaker 2: so many different parts of it that feel bad. But
Speaker 2: I feel like there has to be like a source
Speaker 2: of the bad feeling. And like, I think the bad
Speaker 2: feeling with AI is if you put aside the environmental factors,
Speaker 2: because of course that is like one of the main
Speaker 2: ultimate bad things. But the reason why it personally feels
Speaker 2: bad in the world is it just it is constantly
Speaker 2: pushed onto us in a way that it's like, oh,
Speaker 2: you're gonna love this AI. It's gonna be here. You're
Speaker 2: gonna not. Everything's going to be AI. It's going to
Speaker 2: take your job. You should consulted about what temperature it
Speaker 2: is outside. It can tell you if a glove is
Speaker 2: good for snow. Is like it's stuff like that, for example.
Speaker 2: But it's like stuff like that. It feels like it
Speaker 2: is just like people that the tech world is like,
Speaker 2: you will like AI and you will not complain about it,
Speaker 2: and if you do, we are the victims.
Speaker 4: And that's why I think it feels bad.
Speaker 3: I can't like. I actually do think that leads into
Speaker 3: one of my definite predictions, which is when AI shits
Speaker 3: itself and dies, because I think it's going to end
Speaker 3: up being on device or really expensive, like expensive in
Speaker 3: a way that just no sane person would pay for.
Speaker 3: I can't wait for the articles and boosters where it's like,
Speaker 3: look what you.
Speaker 1: Did, Millennials kill their eye look at it.
Speaker 3: Really it's gonna be like millennials killed like, look, we
Speaker 3: had this amazing thing that sometimes got things right sometimes
Speaker 3: and cost it costs ten dollars to make one dollar,
Speaker 3: and codis were able to write at and thendeterminately faster speed, and.
Speaker 1: After you were done ransacking all of gardens, you went
Speaker 1: to AI.
Speaker 5: Yeah yeah, gear like Gary V or maybe the other
Speaker 5: one of the garys. We'll have an article about, like, oh,
Speaker 5: you've never lied before.
Speaker 3: What's really What it's just is people without culture or
Speaker 3: sensuality trying to do both. I think the AI video
Speaker 3: doesn't look good because it looks it looks like a
Speaker 3: next Netflix movie in that it's got this kind of
Speaker 3: pallid color palla. But also when people look at each other,
Speaker 3: they're not looking in each other's eyes.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's all.
Speaker 1: And the shadows are off, like they are in a
Speaker 1: bunch of like Netflix features now, Like the shadows are
Speaker 1: really off and it's really off putting, and so nothing
Speaker 1: looks like a movie anymore. And AI kind of triples
Speaker 1: down on that where the lighting is bad, the shadows
Speaker 1: are off. But to me, the like the issue is
Speaker 1: AI writing is no, yeah, grotesquely bad. And and I
Speaker 1: I say that not because it is like I've had
Speaker 1: writers submit to me pieces that from a technical perspective
Speaker 1: or worse than if an AI had generated the piece,
Speaker 1: but like it's great. I mean it's you're a new
Speaker 1: writer that yeah.
Speaker 5: Dude a reason.
Speaker 1: I'm right here, but like, but like the problem is
Speaker 1: that like their writing has like character, right, and their
Speaker 1: writing has a distinct voice and it needs to be
Speaker 1: honed and it needs to be refined or whatever. But
Speaker 1: like AI doesn't have character, it doesn't have a voice.
Speaker 1: And they don't mean that because it's a machine. I
Speaker 1: mean that because I have read thousands and thousands and
Speaker 1: thousands and thousands of words written by A and it
Speaker 1: all sounds the exact fucking saying.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And so when I see a tweet or I see
Speaker 1: like that editorial image from people dot com, I just
Speaker 1: see a tweet or a snippet from an article, and
Speaker 1: I can immediately tell it's AI because it has this
Speaker 1: like been all voiceless kind of.
Speaker 5: Same thing at the end too, We're like, imagine just talking.
Speaker 5: I'm American, so I'll imagine a Hamberger article will end
Speaker 5: by saying it's not a Hamber it's a lifestyle. It
Speaker 5: always has the end that it's the ultimate tell.
Speaker 3: It's not just the food it's yummy.
Speaker 2: No, no, yeah, that's that's something I feel like. Yeah, Caleb,
Speaker 2: you and I have talked a lot about on our show,
Speaker 2: Killed the Computer where it's like we've sort of peeked
Speaker 2: into the world of like people dating AI a lot,
Speaker 2: and whenever we read people talking about or to their
Speaker 2: their AI partner or or like, you read these conversations
Speaker 2: and it's I don't see a human quality in this,
Speaker 2: but yeat, this person is human?
Speaker 5: Ever talk to me like that. I would shoot myself tonight.
Speaker 2: There's no humanity in it, and it's very weird. It's
Speaker 2: weird to see that people see humanity in it because
Speaker 2: to me, it's I am very clearly reading generated text
Speaker 2: from a machine.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I also like when people like, yeah, I went
Speaker 3: and talked to chat GPT about my relationship problems. That
Speaker 3: is just a breakup. Just you if you find yourself
Speaker 3: going to chat GPT to ask it for coaching through
Speaker 3: a breakup, or like, is my partner right here? Just
Speaker 3: just fucking what.
Speaker 4: I do love those.
Speaker 2: I do love those, the specifically that it's am I
Speaker 2: in the right, but like not going to Reddit.
Speaker 5: That will never tell me I'm wrong?
Speaker 3: My god, what do you do if it tells you
Speaker 3: you're wrong?
Speaker 4: The regenerate button You're five? Yeah good?
Speaker 5: The New model where I used to tell them everything
Speaker 5: they wanted to hear. Yeah, there's one woman that was
Speaker 5: like it was like I need the chat cheeps something
Speaker 5: like I need to be clear like I'm not going
Speaker 5: to rescue you or I'm not going to save you
Speaker 5: or whatever. She's like upset about it.
Speaker 2: It's so funny you're you're talking about that the hashtag
Speaker 2: keep four Oh.
Speaker 4: I've been digging into the.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I've been doing enough of that that like
Speaker 1: my phone gives me notifications from these subreddits of people
Speaker 1: the bad chat cheepy Tea, and it's just it's just
Speaker 1: like one after another of like them threatening to like
Speaker 1: fly a plane into Sam Altman.
Speaker 3: I'm yeah, there's one. There's one where it's like a
Speaker 3: hamster standing outside of a building. It says a prey
Speaker 3: eye on it and so says never four oh, get
Speaker 3: you know how?
Speaker 2: You know how like a wine mom with like blue
Speaker 2: hair was one of the people that went to Nick Fuentes'
Speaker 2: house and like got preppers right. This is like that
Speaker 2: version of it. It's the median average, like random person
Speaker 2: in these AI communities is going to like, actually, I
Speaker 2: probably shouldn't be saying this. You know what I'm gonna say.
Speaker 4: They're gonna ye bet yeah, yeah, yeah, I poly market.
Speaker 7: Yeah.
Speaker 3: And as we wrap up here, I just I just
Speaker 3: looked up the hashtag keep four oh thing and I'm
Speaker 3: looking at this image where it's just people running with
Speaker 3: like it looks like a relay race. I guess that
Speaker 3: says keep four oh. They keep dropping the baton. We
Speaker 3: just wanted the one that worked, you know, that's how
Speaker 3: batons work. But my favorite part of this image, which
Speaker 3: I'm going to share with all of you, is the
Speaker 3: fact that there's a guy with like they've all got
Speaker 3: helmets for some reason, and their arms are folk going
Speaker 3: the wrong way. Some one of the helmets just has
Speaker 3: a mouth on it, and someone has they have an
Speaker 3: eyebrow by their nose.
Speaker 2: I also like that in this image, the one that
Speaker 2: they say is the one that works is the one
Speaker 2: that's not running in the track.
Speaker 4: But awesome, don't function.
Speaker 2: This is maybe one of the greatest posts I've ever seen,
Speaker 2: one of the greatest AI posts ever. Just it's so long,
Speaker 2: it's it's got every quality of an incredible post that
Speaker 2: you need.
Speaker 4: Here.
Speaker 3: All right, let's wrap it there, June Caleb, well pe
Speaker 3: find you.
Speaker 4: We do, Yeah, you can shoot.
Speaker 5: I feel like I was more annoying than you on
Speaker 5: this outside.
Speaker 2: No, no, I I intro the episode being mean to end,
Speaker 2: I feel like that. But no, I I guess I can.
Speaker 4: I can do it.
Speaker 2: I'm bad at pitching. But what I will say is,
Speaker 2: Caleb and I we do a show called Kill the Computer.
Speaker 2: It's a show about how the Internet sort of influences
Speaker 2: and uh, actually I don't know this is edited, right, Caleb?
Speaker 2: How about you do it? Cut me out of I
Speaker 2: need to work on my pitches. I need to work.
Speaker 5: No, please, Yeah, I would say it's like it's a
Speaker 5: show where we just kind of look at how the
Speaker 5: Internet is internet stuff inner culture spills out to the
Speaker 5: real real world, and how it affect us on our
Speaker 5: personal level. I guess the most high bround way to
Speaker 5: say it is just different a subculture analysis of different
Speaker 5: how different kinds of people use the Internet.
Speaker 3: Absolutely hell yeah, and a reef people can find you
Speaker 3: where at wide Left dot football where I talk about football. Yeah.
Speaker 3: And I'm just gonna say to the people that really
Speaker 3: didn't enjoy the Super Bowl episode last year, like you
Speaker 3: have any idea how close I was to just only
Speaker 3: talking about football for fifty like to hear they released
Speaker 3: Tyreek Hill like going no, no, no, no, dude. We're
Speaker 3: gonna end the episode there. Thank you all for listening
Speaker 3: to Better Offline. There will be a monologue this week.
Speaker 3: I assume download the episodes, read the newsletter, I met Zichean,
Speaker 3: and goodbye. Thank you for listening to Better Offline. The
Speaker 3: editor and composer of the Better Offline theme song is Matasowski.
Speaker 3: You can check out more of his music and audio
Speaker 3: projects at Mattasowski dot com, m A T T O
Speaker 3: S O W s ki dot com. You can email
Speaker 3: me at easy at better offline dot com or visit
Speaker 3: better offline dot com to find more podcast links and
Speaker 3: of course, my newsletter. I also really recommend you go
Speaker 3: to chat dot Where's youreed dot at to visit the discord,
Speaker 3: and go to our slash Better Offline to check out
Speaker 3: our reddit. Thank you so much for listening.
Speaker 4: Better Offline is a production of cool Zone Media.
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