1 00:00:00,960 --> 00:00:02,960 Speaker 1: Crime Stores with Nancy Grace. 2 00:00:05,440 --> 00:00:07,960 Speaker 2: Help us find SSARM. 3 00:00:08,840 --> 00:00:13,960 Speaker 3: Chilling close circuit TV spots the missing flight attendant just 4 00:00:14,200 --> 00:00:20,280 Speaker 3: before she vanishes off her boyfriend's yacht. Good evening, I'm 5 00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:23,160 Speaker 3: Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. I want to thank 6 00:00:23,200 --> 00:00:24,520 Speaker 3: you for being with us. 7 00:00:24,800 --> 00:00:27,600 Speaker 4: A young woman with a love for adventure spent her 8 00:00:27,680 --> 00:00:31,080 Speaker 4: days sailing the beautiful waters of the Virgin Islands, working 9 00:00:31,160 --> 00:00:34,440 Speaker 4: in the glamorous world of luxury yaytes. She had once 10 00:00:34,479 --> 00:00:37,400 Speaker 4: been a flight attendant, driven by her desire to explore 11 00:00:37,440 --> 00:00:41,200 Speaker 4: the globe, until her journey came to an unexpected halt. 12 00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:47,440 Speaker 3: Where is Sarm? Let's start at the beginning. 13 00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:51,160 Speaker 5: We began to search, initially that the day we became 14 00:00:51,400 --> 00:00:56,360 Speaker 5: aware that she went missing that Monday afternoon. We initially 15 00:00:56,400 --> 00:00:59,279 Speaker 5: the first six days spent a lot of time in 16 00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:06,280 Speaker 5: small craft searching, shoreline scuba diving, snorkeling, and transitioned to 17 00:01:06,680 --> 00:01:11,600 Speaker 5: a ground search using volunteers on foot searching the terrain 18 00:01:12,280 --> 00:01:15,240 Speaker 5: in heavy, heavy bush as well as a long rough 19 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:19,679 Speaker 5: reef rocks call using drones. Taking those maps that we've 20 00:01:19,920 --> 00:01:25,000 Speaker 5: created from the drone imagery and entered into the software, 21 00:01:25,080 --> 00:01:27,559 Speaker 5: stitches all this together and makes a very high resolution map. 22 00:01:28,319 --> 00:01:32,000 Speaker 5: We found nothing. We found no evidence of anything, not 23 00:01:32,080 --> 00:01:36,039 Speaker 5: a clothing, not not shoes, not a not an unusual 24 00:01:36,080 --> 00:01:36,759 Speaker 5: broken twig. 25 00:01:37,200 --> 00:01:43,520 Speaker 3: So where is sarm Heslop in the last days? Previously 26 00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:50,480 Speaker 3: buried Closed Circuit TV reveals her last moments where she 27 00:01:51,080 --> 00:01:58,040 Speaker 3: was known alive. Newly released footage just before her disappearance, 28 00:01:58,840 --> 00:02:03,160 Speaker 3: joining Me and All Star Panel. But first there's the footage. Guys, 29 00:02:03,680 --> 00:02:06,919 Speaker 3: look at that, and there's a very very disturbing clue 30 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:11,680 Speaker 3: about that, because apparently she's wearing this is just before 31 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:13,000 Speaker 3: she goes missing. 32 00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:16,560 Speaker 2: There she is walking along with the boyfriend. 33 00:02:19,040 --> 00:02:22,919 Speaker 3: She's wearing something altogether different in this closed circuit video 34 00:02:23,080 --> 00:02:25,160 Speaker 3: than what she was described. 35 00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:26,720 Speaker 2: As wearing when she goes missing. 36 00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:33,239 Speaker 3: Shortly after this very chilling closed circuit TV video, that's 37 00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:38,480 Speaker 3: sarm Haslot right there. They're getting into dinghy and they're 38 00:02:38,480 --> 00:02:45,360 Speaker 3: heading out to the boyfriend's yacht. That's got to be 39 00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:50,239 Speaker 3: excruciating for her family to feel so close to her 40 00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:54,440 Speaker 3: in this video, and then it all ends just before 41 00:02:54,919 --> 00:02:59,440 Speaker 3: she seemingly vanishes into thin air again an All Star 42 00:02:59,480 --> 00:03:00,560 Speaker 3: Panel joint us tonight. 43 00:03:00,600 --> 00:03:02,720 Speaker 2: But I want to go to two very special guests. First. 44 00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:09,720 Speaker 3: It's Kate Vernal's former roommate with Sarm Heslop and Andrew 45 00:03:09,760 --> 00:03:15,119 Speaker 3: Baldwin a very dear friend for years and years. Andrew, 46 00:03:15,480 --> 00:03:17,720 Speaker 3: thank you for being with us tonight. When did you 47 00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:20,400 Speaker 3: learn that sarm was missing? 48 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:26,040 Speaker 6: I got a call from Kate Owen. It was the 49 00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:29,560 Speaker 6: day after that she went missing, so kind of kind 50 00:03:29,560 --> 00:03:32,720 Speaker 6: of nearly thirty six hours after. I got a frantic 51 00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:34,680 Speaker 6: call from Kate and all she said was you know, 52 00:03:34,800 --> 00:03:37,800 Speaker 6: and I remember the words. They still chill me. Now 53 00:03:38,160 --> 00:03:40,200 Speaker 6: Salm's missing and we don't know where she is. They 54 00:03:40,360 --> 00:03:41,320 Speaker 6: just come out of the blue. 55 00:03:41,720 --> 00:03:46,560 Speaker 3: Andrew Baldwin, I don't understand the night that you learn 56 00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:51,200 Speaker 3: your dear friend many many years. 57 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:51,960 Speaker 2: Has just vanished. 58 00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:55,320 Speaker 3: What were you told, if anything, as to what happened 59 00:03:55,360 --> 00:03:55,680 Speaker 3: to her? 60 00:03:57,320 --> 00:03:59,840 Speaker 6: Initially I was just told that she was she was. 61 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:03,360 Speaker 6: I think Kate Owen at the time had just had 62 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:06,760 Speaker 6: a call from Ryan Bain to say that she'd gone 63 00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:10,200 Speaker 6: missing the previous the previous night. So it was twenty 64 00:04:10,200 --> 00:04:13,040 Speaker 6: four hours after she'd got missing, and literally said she'd 65 00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:15,000 Speaker 6: gone missing in the middle of the night. They didn't 66 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:18,040 Speaker 6: know where she was. Talked about an anchor Alarm talked 67 00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:22,760 Speaker 6: about people searching but there were very very few details. 68 00:04:23,560 --> 00:04:26,120 Speaker 6: And subsequent to that, I had a conversation with Ryan Bain. 69 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:29,839 Speaker 3: You spoke to the boyfriend, the so called boyfriend, Ryan Baine. 70 00:04:29,880 --> 00:04:30,880 Speaker 3: Is that correct? 71 00:04:30,640 --> 00:04:34,240 Speaker 7: And that's correct, just after the call from Kate. 72 00:04:34,760 --> 00:04:37,360 Speaker 3: So I found it really difficult to believe that this 73 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:39,960 Speaker 3: is this is how it goes down. We've seen the 74 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:44,240 Speaker 3: newly released closer at TV video and he Ryan Bain, 75 00:04:44,440 --> 00:04:48,240 Speaker 3: the so called boyfriend, is walking with sarm. They had 76 00:04:48,279 --> 00:04:52,560 Speaker 3: been in the town. They were leaving. I believe they've 77 00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:55,119 Speaker 3: been to a restaurant, slash bar, and they were going 78 00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:58,960 Speaker 3: back to his yacht and then some I mean the 79 00:04:59,040 --> 00:05:03,279 Speaker 3: yachts it's not that big, they're not that many rooms 80 00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:05,760 Speaker 3: to look in. So they're on a yacht. If she 81 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:09,000 Speaker 3: vanishes off the yacht in the middle of the night, 82 00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:13,760 Speaker 3: Andrew what how the dinghy was still there? So where 83 00:05:13,760 --> 00:05:14,360 Speaker 3: did she go? 84 00:05:14,960 --> 00:05:18,480 Speaker 6: That's exactly what we're asking ourselves. You know, the information 85 00:05:18,600 --> 00:05:21,520 Speaker 6: we got that she just disappeared. There was an original 86 00:05:22,120 --> 00:05:25,040 Speaker 6: Maybe she went off somewhere, maybe she met some friends, 87 00:05:25,240 --> 00:05:27,719 Speaker 6: but it was late, it was during COVID we you know, 88 00:05:27,960 --> 00:05:29,240 Speaker 6: I think that's highly unlikely. 89 00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:32,520 Speaker 7: All of her belongings are on the boat and. 90 00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:38,400 Speaker 3: I need to ask him a question. Andrew, I'm sorry, 91 00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:40,360 Speaker 3: that doesn't make sense to me. What do you mean 92 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:43,440 Speaker 3: she went off with friends? She gets on the dinghy 93 00:05:43,960 --> 00:05:47,800 Speaker 3: with the boyfriend, They go to his yacht. They disembark 94 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:50,799 Speaker 3: the dinghy, they get on the yacht, the dinghy's tied 95 00:05:50,839 --> 00:05:55,200 Speaker 3: to the yacht. When the boyfriend wakes up, the dinghy's 96 00:05:55,240 --> 00:05:55,880 Speaker 3: still there. 97 00:05:57,440 --> 00:05:59,040 Speaker 2: So what does somebody. 98 00:05:58,720 --> 00:05:59,360 Speaker 1: Beam her up? 99 00:05:59,400 --> 00:06:01,560 Speaker 3: Scotty, I mean, what do you mean she went somewhere 100 00:06:01,560 --> 00:06:02,120 Speaker 3: with friends? 101 00:06:02,160 --> 00:06:03,040 Speaker 2: That's impossible. 102 00:06:03,120 --> 00:06:05,480 Speaker 3: She did not leave the yacht. 103 00:06:06,400 --> 00:06:08,200 Speaker 6: I think we never you know, that was something that 104 00:06:08,640 --> 00:06:10,880 Speaker 6: kind of maybe she maybe she went off, maybe someone 105 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:14,040 Speaker 6: picked her up, maybe she went to when and met someone, 106 00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:15,719 Speaker 6: But there was she didn't know that many people on 107 00:06:15,720 --> 00:06:18,080 Speaker 6: the island, and all the people that she knew wouldn't 108 00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:18,880 Speaker 6: wouldn't have done that. 109 00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:20,760 Speaker 7: So I find that really hard to believe. 110 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:24,919 Speaker 6: And then kind of the the thing that come that 111 00:06:25,040 --> 00:06:27,880 Speaker 6: was suggested was that she'd fallen off the boat and 112 00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:28,599 Speaker 6: drifted away. 113 00:06:29,160 --> 00:06:34,640 Speaker 3: Fallen off the boat and drifted away, I'd like, can 114 00:06:34,680 --> 00:06:39,760 Speaker 3: I go now to Kate Vernal's former roommate of Psalms. 115 00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:45,200 Speaker 3: Kate fell off the boat and drifted away. 116 00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:50,520 Speaker 8: I think from the outset it was just a ridiculous theory. 117 00:06:51,880 --> 00:06:55,159 Speaker 9: Salmon had stewed across the Atlantic and not fallen overboard. 118 00:06:55,279 --> 00:06:59,520 Speaker 9: So to suggest that she had fallen overboard in the 119 00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:02,039 Speaker 9: middle of the night on a yacht there was maud 120 00:07:02,760 --> 00:07:07,360 Speaker 9: so close to shore just seems absolutely impossible and ridiculous. 121 00:07:07,839 --> 00:07:10,520 Speaker 3: First of all, I want to figure out how in 122 00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:16,560 Speaker 3: the hay did this beautiful, young, brilliant woman end up 123 00:07:17,360 --> 00:07:20,000 Speaker 3: on a yacht out in the middle of her ocean, 124 00:07:20,160 --> 00:07:22,720 Speaker 3: of the ocean with her family a world away. 125 00:07:23,000 --> 00:07:23,360 Speaker 2: Listen. 126 00:07:23,680 --> 00:07:27,160 Speaker 10: Sarmheslab has a restless sense of adventure and works various 127 00:07:27,240 --> 00:07:30,320 Speaker 10: jobs to fund her passion for travel and sailing, working 128 00:07:30,360 --> 00:07:33,200 Speaker 10: as a flight attendant for Flybee in the UK, a 129 00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:36,320 Speaker 10: waitress in Gibraltar and Malta, even working in a call 130 00:07:36,360 --> 00:07:38,480 Speaker 10: center to fund her exotic adventures. 131 00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:42,480 Speaker 3: She's adventuresome. She works all over the world. Tell me 132 00:07:42,640 --> 00:07:44,120 Speaker 3: about that, Andrew Baldwin. 133 00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:50,360 Speaker 6: She just loved new experiences, you know, Nancy. She loved 134 00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:55,120 Speaker 6: to meet people, she loved new cultures, new destinations. She 135 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:57,920 Speaker 6: liked to do things that perhaps some of us just 136 00:07:57,920 --> 00:08:01,160 Speaker 6: wouldn't do. I remember her call maintain that she was 137 00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:04,200 Speaker 6: sailing across the Atlantic on a yacht and just you know. 138 00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:07,000 Speaker 7: No one would do that. Oh, no one would think 139 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:07,520 Speaker 7: about doing that. 140 00:08:07,560 --> 00:08:11,040 Speaker 6: But she would do things that enriched her life and 141 00:08:11,160 --> 00:08:13,840 Speaker 6: enriched you know what she was doing, and got great experience. 142 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:17,200 Speaker 6: She wasn't someone who wanted to settle down nine to five. 143 00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:21,480 Speaker 6: She just wanted to see everything that the world had 144 00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:22,280 Speaker 6: to offer her. 145 00:08:22,160 --> 00:08:22,840 Speaker 7: And she did. 146 00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:28,920 Speaker 3: You know, I really don't like Andrew when people suggest 147 00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:35,720 Speaker 3: that she quote asked for bad fortune because she traveled 148 00:08:35,720 --> 00:08:38,720 Speaker 3: the world and did adventurous things. If a man did that, 149 00:08:38,880 --> 00:08:42,720 Speaker 3: nobody would think twice. I remember asking my now husband 150 00:08:43,440 --> 00:08:46,120 Speaker 3: learn to dive with me. Let's go all over the 151 00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:47,199 Speaker 3: world and dive. 152 00:08:47,920 --> 00:08:50,600 Speaker 2: He didn't want to. He wanted to stay in his office, 153 00:08:50,880 --> 00:08:51,520 Speaker 2: and he did. 154 00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:55,200 Speaker 3: I didn't, and I ended up going all over the 155 00:08:55,240 --> 00:08:57,920 Speaker 3: world diving. Now, I don't want my children to do 156 00:08:57,920 --> 00:08:59,680 Speaker 3: it because it's incredibly dangerous, and. 157 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:02,199 Speaker 2: I had them Andrew, I swore it off. 158 00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:04,960 Speaker 3: I've never done it again because it's too important to 159 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:08,520 Speaker 3: me that I am with them to bring them up 160 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:13,520 Speaker 3: or hiking. I said, David, please go hiking with me. 161 00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:14,840 Speaker 5: Now. 162 00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:17,720 Speaker 3: Didn't want to take off work, and I don't fault him. 163 00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:21,240 Speaker 3: I even married him. But my point is just because 164 00:09:21,320 --> 00:09:26,760 Speaker 3: she is adventurous, I don't like the insinuations made about her. 165 00:09:27,520 --> 00:09:31,840 Speaker 3: This girl was scrubbed in sunshine. She loved life, and 166 00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:34,319 Speaker 3: I don't like those insinuations about her. 167 00:09:34,320 --> 00:09:38,680 Speaker 7: Andrew the thing about some She was so loyal. 168 00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:41,679 Speaker 6: She was a friend that if you wanted something, or 169 00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:45,120 Speaker 6: you needed to speak to someone, or she'd be there 170 00:09:45,160 --> 00:09:46,880 Speaker 6: for you. She'd be there at the end of the phone, 171 00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:50,560 Speaker 6: she'd be there. She was such a loyal, trustworthy person. 172 00:09:50,720 --> 00:09:54,400 Speaker 6: She traveled safe. She was very street savvy. She was 173 00:09:54,559 --> 00:09:59,160 Speaker 6: very conscious of the world around her, conscious of how 174 00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:02,320 Speaker 6: to travel safe, how to meet people safely, how to 175 00:10:03,040 --> 00:10:05,760 Speaker 6: kind of traveling around the world. You know, she was very, 176 00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:10,000 Speaker 6: very smart. So she would not do anything that she 177 00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:14,720 Speaker 6: felt that would be dangerous to her, and she would 178 00:10:14,720 --> 00:10:18,240 Speaker 6: take advice. So you know, I completely refuse any insinuation 179 00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:20,679 Speaker 6: that she shouldn't have been traveling. And I agree if 180 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:23,560 Speaker 6: I wanted to go traveling or do anything, no one 181 00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:24,400 Speaker 6: would say anything. 182 00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:30,000 Speaker 7: This wonderful woman that we call our friend just did 183 00:10:30,040 --> 00:10:32,440 Speaker 7: things that she wanted to do and live her life 184 00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:34,079 Speaker 7: the way she wanted to do it, and no one 185 00:10:34,120 --> 00:10:36,600 Speaker 7: should blame her for that your. 186 00:10:36,600 --> 00:10:39,200 Speaker 3: Preaching to the choir. Andrew Bald went to Kate Vinol's 187 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:43,480 Speaker 3: her a roommate. Kate, I assume you agree with me. 188 00:10:43,679 --> 00:10:46,200 Speaker 3: I do not like the insinuation that somehow, because she 189 00:10:46,280 --> 00:10:49,920 Speaker 3: traveled the world and wanted to see it all and 190 00:10:50,080 --> 00:10:53,560 Speaker 3: do it all and experience it all, that somehow makes 191 00:10:53,559 --> 00:10:57,160 Speaker 3: her a big hope. I don't get that that Nothing 192 00:10:57,200 --> 00:10:58,600 Speaker 3: could be further from the truth. 193 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:01,440 Speaker 8: So I agree with you completely. 194 00:11:01,640 --> 00:11:05,760 Speaker 9: I think watching her go on all these adventurous and 195 00:11:06,080 --> 00:11:09,720 Speaker 9: being a headstrong but spontaneous, she was really meticulous. 196 00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:11,160 Speaker 8: She would organize down. 197 00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:15,840 Speaker 9: To the last to the last point, and I always 198 00:11:16,160 --> 00:11:19,120 Speaker 9: was excited for her, and I think she should be 199 00:11:19,160 --> 00:11:21,600 Speaker 9: praised for not conforming to a nine to five, to 200 00:11:21,679 --> 00:11:24,840 Speaker 9: actually doing what we all dreamed to do by going 201 00:11:24,840 --> 00:11:26,080 Speaker 9: on holiday once a year. 202 00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:28,600 Speaker 8: That was what she just wanted to do with her life. 203 00:11:28,679 --> 00:11:33,480 Speaker 9: I don't think anyone should be put down for wanting 204 00:11:33,559 --> 00:11:35,200 Speaker 9: to have a fun life. 205 00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:36,160 Speaker 8: Is it jealousy? 206 00:11:36,679 --> 00:11:39,679 Speaker 9: Maybe you know, this is a young woman who's living 207 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:41,880 Speaker 9: the life that she wants to live and not conforming 208 00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:45,280 Speaker 9: to a nine to five. I was always in support 209 00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:48,080 Speaker 9: of her traveling. We would always stay in communication, and 210 00:11:48,120 --> 00:11:51,200 Speaker 9: she would always come back, you know, and then. 211 00:11:51,160 --> 00:11:54,600 Speaker 8: Save up to go away again. Whereas, why is that wrong? 212 00:11:54,960 --> 00:11:57,000 Speaker 9: You know, I think it's something we all want to do, 213 00:11:57,080 --> 00:11:58,880 Speaker 9: but we just do it for two weeks of a 214 00:11:58,960 --> 00:12:02,280 Speaker 9: year to go on holiday, other than making it how we. 215 00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:03,480 Speaker 8: Want to look back on our lives. 216 00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:08,199 Speaker 3: And she was working. She worked the entire time. Enter 217 00:12:09,200 --> 00:12:12,520 Speaker 3: the boyfriend, Ryan Baine. 218 00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:13,400 Speaker 2: Listen. 219 00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:16,840 Speaker 11: Sarm meets Ryan Bain online and becomes close enough. She 220 00:12:16,960 --> 00:12:19,720 Speaker 11: moves to the Virgin Islands and joins Bain on board 221 00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:23,439 Speaker 11: his forty seven foot luxury catamaran Siren Song as a chef. 222 00:12:23,800 --> 00:12:26,640 Speaker 11: The Siren Song is a working charter yacht available for 223 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:28,760 Speaker 11: private charge and is more than a bay off the 224 00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:31,720 Speaker 11: western coast of Saint John Us, Virgin Islands. 225 00:12:32,080 --> 00:12:37,600 Speaker 3: Andrew, what was her plan? She meets Bain online? Does 226 00:12:37,640 --> 00:12:39,880 Speaker 3: she fall in love with him? Is that what happened? 227 00:12:41,080 --> 00:12:41,280 Speaker 5: Yeah? 228 00:12:41,320 --> 00:12:43,760 Speaker 6: I think Lin Simon Ryan met when Salmon was in 229 00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:47,679 Speaker 6: the Caribbean and they formed a relationship, and you know, 230 00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:49,800 Speaker 6: she was really open about that and she was excited 231 00:12:49,840 --> 00:12:54,000 Speaker 6: about it. Then her travel was over and she moves 232 00:12:54,080 --> 00:12:57,160 Speaker 6: back to Malta to some friends and she worked in 233 00:12:57,320 --> 00:13:00,840 Speaker 6: Malta to fund more of her trips. We've already said 234 00:13:00,840 --> 00:13:02,840 Speaker 6: to fund more and to do more adventures, and I 235 00:13:02,880 --> 00:13:06,200 Speaker 6: think the calling that, you know, she she kind of 236 00:13:06,200 --> 00:13:08,320 Speaker 6: realized being a part that actually I want to give, 237 00:13:08,760 --> 00:13:09,920 Speaker 6: give this relationship a go. 238 00:13:10,080 --> 00:13:10,440 Speaker 7: I want to. 239 00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:12,120 Speaker 6: I want to go back, and I want to, but 240 00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:13,640 Speaker 6: I want to go back on my terms. I want 241 00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:16,480 Speaker 6: to go back and and fund myself. I want to 242 00:13:16,520 --> 00:13:18,160 Speaker 6: be working. I don't want to. I don't want to 243 00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:20,400 Speaker 6: go back and just be your girlfriend. I want to 244 00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:22,559 Speaker 6: go back and work and I want to pursue a 245 00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:25,800 Speaker 6: career and work working in this In this business. 246 00:13:27,400 --> 00:13:35,760 Speaker 12: People would describe some as a free spirit, adventurous, sarcastic, bonkers. 247 00:13:35,960 --> 00:13:37,560 Speaker 8: So that is a boat. 248 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:47,079 Speaker 2: Look, I had a miscall on my phone. Psalm's missing. 249 00:13:47,400 --> 00:13:49,880 Speaker 3: A massive search and rescue operation is underway for a 250 00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:51,960 Speaker 3: British former flight attendant. 251 00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:56,920 Speaker 2: While sailing around the Caribbean. Some has a lot vanished. 252 00:13:56,760 --> 00:14:00,400 Speaker 3: That from missing in Paradise searching for song now able 253 00:14:00,760 --> 00:14:02,960 Speaker 3: to US audiences on BBC. 254 00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:06,000 Speaker 11: Select Living on board the Siren Song called the Virgin 255 00:14:06,040 --> 00:14:10,280 Speaker 11: Islands premiere luxury sailing charter sarm is living her best life. 256 00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:13,120 Speaker 11: On the evening of March seventh, Simon Bain go to 257 00:14:13,160 --> 00:14:16,160 Speaker 11: the island of Saint John for dinner. Leaving the restaurant, 258 00:14:16,360 --> 00:14:18,559 Speaker 11: they bought a small dinghy for the two hundred foot 259 00:14:18,559 --> 00:14:21,680 Speaker 11: hop to where Siren Song is moored off shore. Bain says, 260 00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:23,520 Speaker 11: Sarm is asleep by ten pm. 261 00:14:24,080 --> 00:14:29,480 Speaker 3: Two hundred feet that's not far at all, but from 262 00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:33,800 Speaker 3: what we've been told, the depth goes from about four 263 00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:36,760 Speaker 3: to five feet, and then after you're out just a 264 00:14:36,880 --> 00:14:41,680 Speaker 3: very short distance, it drops to forty or fifty feet. 265 00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:45,960 Speaker 3: So here we go. Two thirty am. He wakes up 266 00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:51,280 Speaker 3: and discovers he can't find Psarm. 267 00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:52,720 Speaker 2: What else happened? 268 00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:56,680 Speaker 11: At two thirty am. Bain awakens but can't find Sarm. 269 00:14:57,080 --> 00:14:59,280 Speaker 11: He takes a dinghy to the shore to report her 270 00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:02,560 Speaker 11: missing to island and police, suggesting she may have fallen overboard. 271 00:15:02,880 --> 00:15:05,840 Speaker 11: Police tell him to call the coast Guard. Bain does 272 00:15:05,880 --> 00:15:09,320 Speaker 11: not notify the coast Guard immediately for reasons unknown. He 273 00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:12,280 Speaker 11: waits until eleven forty five to notify the coast Guard 274 00:15:12,280 --> 00:15:16,480 Speaker 11: this Sarm is missing. When Coastguard officials arrive, an intoxicated 275 00:15:16,560 --> 00:15:19,680 Speaker 11: Bain refuses to allow them to board the catamaran to 276 00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:20,760 Speaker 11: conduct a serge. 277 00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:24,520 Speaker 3: Okay, right there, Andrew, I've got a problem with him 278 00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:28,040 Speaker 3: not allowing them on board. If he wants to find sarm, 279 00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:29,840 Speaker 3: why wouldn't allow them on board the yacht. 280 00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:32,760 Speaker 6: I think we've got a problem. This is where our 281 00:15:32,760 --> 00:15:35,840 Speaker 6: problems begin with the timeline. The timeline is where the 282 00:15:35,840 --> 00:15:41,280 Speaker 6: problems begin. You know, the call to the police, the 283 00:15:41,320 --> 00:15:45,000 Speaker 6: meeting of the police, and then nine hours pass before 284 00:15:46,080 --> 00:15:48,520 Speaker 6: the call to the coastguards. 285 00:15:47,840 --> 00:15:50,120 Speaker 7: And nine hours of time where. 286 00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:53,400 Speaker 6: She was still missing wherever she was, and you know 287 00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:56,960 Speaker 6: the reports and the coast guard that were retained on 288 00:15:57,000 --> 00:15:59,840 Speaker 6: a quite clean state that the coast Guard and the USB, 289 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:02,040 Speaker 6: John and police wanted to come on board the boat 290 00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:05,960 Speaker 6: and potentially search the boat, and he refused them the 291 00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:08,840 Speaker 6: entry to the main area of the boat because he 292 00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:12,120 Speaker 6: was intoxicated, and they didn't want to put themselves in 293 00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:14,360 Speaker 6: any risk, any danger at that point she was missing. 294 00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:16,400 Speaker 6: At that point, we didn't know what was happening, so 295 00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:18,760 Speaker 6: they didn't want to put themselves in any danger, so 296 00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:19,440 Speaker 6: they left. 297 00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:26,240 Speaker 3: Kate Ronald, the roommate of saram heaslap the long delay. 298 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:33,760 Speaker 3: Have you ever spoken to Baying the boyfriend and asked, 299 00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:38,200 Speaker 3: why did you wait nearly ten hours to get the Coastguard. 300 00:16:38,880 --> 00:16:42,560 Speaker 9: No, Andrew is Salm's only friend who's spoken to Ryan, 301 00:16:42,640 --> 00:16:44,440 Speaker 9: with the exception of Kate Owen. 302 00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:49,640 Speaker 8: It would be my first and maybe only. 303 00:16:49,520 --> 00:16:52,520 Speaker 9: Question to ask Ryan if I had the opportunity, because 304 00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:56,440 Speaker 9: he woke up so some wasn't there. He went to shore, 305 00:16:56,480 --> 00:16:58,840 Speaker 9: he spoke to the police, he was told to come 306 00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:01,200 Speaker 9: back to the boat called the host guard, but he 307 00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:02,480 Speaker 9: didn't call the coast Guard. 308 00:17:02,560 --> 00:17:04,000 Speaker 8: He didn't even get on the radio. 309 00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:09,560 Speaker 9: There's a continuously monitored channel on the radio frequency that. 310 00:17:09,640 --> 00:17:12,399 Speaker 8: Is monitored by the coast Guard. That didn't happen. 311 00:17:12,520 --> 00:17:15,879 Speaker 9: He didn't set off any flares. He didn't even call 312 00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:18,760 Speaker 9: her name. If you speak to the other two captains 313 00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:22,120 Speaker 9: of the neighboring vessels, they didn't hit anything that night. 314 00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:24,479 Speaker 9: So he doesn't even get in his dinghy to go 315 00:17:24,560 --> 00:17:26,479 Speaker 9: looking for her. He gets in his dinghy to go 316 00:17:26,560 --> 00:17:28,960 Speaker 9: to shore to speak to the police, but then he 317 00:17:29,119 --> 00:17:33,840 Speaker 9: just comes straight back. There's no evidence of him reaching 318 00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:35,560 Speaker 9: out to anybody else to ask. 319 00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:36,280 Speaker 8: For help to search this. 320 00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:41,919 Speaker 3: M Andrew Bodwin, did you ask Bain anything about the delay. 321 00:17:43,119 --> 00:17:43,640 Speaker 7: At that point? 322 00:17:43,680 --> 00:17:47,560 Speaker 6: I spoke to him, probably in the immediacy that I 323 00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:50,919 Speaker 6: was called on kind of the second day, and then 324 00:17:51,119 --> 00:17:53,879 Speaker 6: I spoke to him twice, and at that point we 325 00:17:53,880 --> 00:17:56,680 Speaker 6: didn't know any of this. We only knew that the 326 00:17:56,720 --> 00:17:59,879 Speaker 6: wording I got from Ryan Bain was I'm out searching. 327 00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:02,480 Speaker 6: I'm looking for her. I'm out on the boat. We're 328 00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:05,520 Speaker 6: doing everything we can. We're getting loads of people searching 329 00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:09,119 Speaker 6: for We had no idea at this point of this 330 00:18:09,280 --> 00:18:12,000 Speaker 6: timeline and what happened, so you know, that only come 331 00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:15,480 Speaker 6: out kind of in the weeks after she went missing, 332 00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:17,200 Speaker 6: that we found out about this gap, and by which 333 00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:19,879 Speaker 6: point he was not talking, he was not communicating, he 334 00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:23,479 Speaker 6: wasn't answering messages. He had his lawyer, and therefore there 335 00:18:23,560 --> 00:18:26,359 Speaker 6: has been no opportunity I think after that point to 336 00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:27,680 Speaker 6: ask him any questions. 337 00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:36,199 Speaker 3: Joining us now from ASAR Disaster Area Response Team Jeff Jones, Jeff, 338 00:18:37,359 --> 00:18:39,320 Speaker 3: when did you first get to the scene. 339 00:18:39,880 --> 00:18:42,800 Speaker 5: I was initially I've seen the next morning beginning to 340 00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:46,359 Speaker 5: do scuba diving as well as shoreline base search with 341 00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:50,000 Speaker 5: small craft throughout Frank Bay. That next morning. There were 342 00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:52,160 Speaker 5: two vessels in that bay, but I spoke to one 343 00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:55,440 Speaker 5: captain myself who was there the night that she went away. 344 00:18:55,560 --> 00:18:58,920 Speaker 5: We were missing it around two am when mister Bain 345 00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:02,679 Speaker 5: knowsed her done, and that vessel was about one hundred 346 00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:05,919 Speaker 5: to one hundred and twenty feet to the northwest in 347 00:19:05,960 --> 00:19:08,920 Speaker 5: that same morning area in Frank Bay. 348 00:19:09,160 --> 00:19:14,080 Speaker 3: The same mooring area there in Frank Bay. And you know, Jeff, 349 00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:16,840 Speaker 3: you're stating that you spoke to the captain who was. 350 00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:17,520 Speaker 2: There that night. 351 00:19:18,320 --> 00:19:20,240 Speaker 5: I spoke to a captain who was there the night 352 00:19:20,280 --> 00:19:22,560 Speaker 5: she went missing. He actually came into that base Sunday 353 00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:25,280 Speaker 5: morning and it dropped anchor about one hundred to one 354 00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:28,119 Speaker 5: hundred twenty feet away from the siren song. And he 355 00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:31,200 Speaker 5: was there overnight on that vessel. He's also a term 356 00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:37,800 Speaker 5: charter captain with another catamaran for hire, and he saw nothing, 357 00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:41,400 Speaker 5: heard nothing, and was unaware of any unusual foul play 358 00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:44,280 Speaker 5: till the next day when the coach starts showed up. 359 00:19:50,119 --> 00:19:51,760 Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace. 360 00:19:55,640 --> 00:20:02,199 Speaker 3: That's a lot of time, Andrew Baldwin. For the captains 361 00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:07,000 Speaker 3: on vessels around bang, they had no idea anything was wrong. 362 00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:10,560 Speaker 3: None of them were alerted by him. There wasn't a 363 00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:14,640 Speaker 3: siren nothing. I mean, we've all seen those boat horns 364 00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:19,160 Speaker 3: that are incredibly loud. Why didn't he call out on 365 00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:24,440 Speaker 3: those to the boats, the vessels around him, asking for help, 366 00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:27,440 Speaker 3: asking them to look for sarm. They knew nothing until 367 00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:29,800 Speaker 3: the coastguard pulls up the next day. 368 00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:33,120 Speaker 2: Essentially, Yeah, I mean that's what's come out. 369 00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:36,880 Speaker 6: You know, we knew there were two boats close, so 370 00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:40,160 Speaker 6: we kind of all assumed that, you know, like any search, 371 00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:43,000 Speaker 6: So you would be speaking to the boats asking for 372 00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:45,560 Speaker 6: their assistance, putting lights in the water. If she had 373 00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:49,440 Speaker 6: fallen off, there was an assumption then you would be 374 00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:51,680 Speaker 6: shouting her name, you'd be he had a dinghy, he 375 00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:53,080 Speaker 6: could have banged on the side of the boat, he 376 00:20:53,080 --> 00:20:56,159 Speaker 6: could have called her name, he shouted. We've seen interviews 377 00:20:56,200 --> 00:21:01,159 Speaker 6: with both captains, both captains independently. Both captains stated they 378 00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:04,719 Speaker 6: woke up that morning and there was nothing different than 379 00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:07,840 Speaker 6: any other morning they woke up. Siren song was quiet, 380 00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:10,359 Speaker 6: there was nothing going on. There was no one shouting, 381 00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:13,040 Speaker 6: there was no one looking, There wasn't someone screaming. There 382 00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:16,040 Speaker 6: was nothing happening on that boat in the first thing 383 00:21:16,119 --> 00:21:16,639 Speaker 6: in the morning. 384 00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:17,920 Speaker 7: She were missing, So. 385 00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:18,679 Speaker 8: What was going on? 386 00:21:18,760 --> 00:21:22,159 Speaker 7: What was he doing like waiting to pick up the phone? 387 00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:24,680 Speaker 6: You know what whilch If it was my loved one, 388 00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:27,640 Speaker 6: my family, any of my friends, I would be made. 389 00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:30,360 Speaker 6: I would be screaming, I would be shouting. I would 390 00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:33,800 Speaker 6: be calling for help. The boats were one hundred feet away, 391 00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:36,159 Speaker 6: maybe two hundred feet away. They would have if you did, 392 00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:39,480 Speaker 6: they'd have shouted. If Ryan Baine had shouted, they would 393 00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:41,200 Speaker 6: have heard him. And they said that, and they're both 394 00:21:42,359 --> 00:21:44,800 Speaker 6: both experienced captains. They would have heard him say something. 395 00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:46,879 Speaker 6: And he said nothing to those boats. 396 00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:49,040 Speaker 2: What about it? To you, k Ronalds, what do you 397 00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:49,520 Speaker 2: make of it? 398 00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:52,040 Speaker 8: I just think there's a lot of contradiction happening. 399 00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:52,400 Speaker 7: Though. 400 00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:56,240 Speaker 9: The story from the captain of the Sirens Song differs 401 00:21:56,280 --> 00:21:59,560 Speaker 9: completely from the story given by the captains of the 402 00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:03,280 Speaker 9: two or In boats. As Andrew said, they both woke 403 00:22:03,359 --> 00:22:07,119 Speaker 9: up the next morning. It was a calm morning, nothing 404 00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:10,960 Speaker 9: appeared to be out of the ordinary, and both captains 405 00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:15,000 Speaker 9: of the other vessels confirmed that they if he had 406 00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:17,080 Speaker 9: to set off a flare, if he had have shouted 407 00:22:17,119 --> 00:22:20,000 Speaker 9: her name, even it would have woken them up. It 408 00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:22,320 Speaker 9: would have alerted them and they would have helped search. 409 00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:26,480 Speaker 9: So there is a reason that only he knows why 410 00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:30,359 Speaker 9: he didn't call the Coastguard on the phone. He didn't 411 00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:32,399 Speaker 9: call them on the radio, he didn't shout for help, 412 00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:36,600 Speaker 9: and it's not acceptable that the answer would be, well, 413 00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:39,800 Speaker 9: she might have gone to shore to have drinks with friends. 414 00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:42,399 Speaker 9: If she did that, then she would have had to 415 00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:46,080 Speaker 9: have swum to shore. It was COVID, there was a curfew. 416 00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:48,199 Speaker 9: From what she told us that all the bars and 417 00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:54,400 Speaker 9: restaurants closed at ten pm. So there is no logical 418 00:22:54,480 --> 00:23:00,200 Speaker 9: explanation to delay calling the Coastguard by nine hours unless 419 00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:06,040 Speaker 9: you are waiting for something to something else to happen, 420 00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:09,239 Speaker 9: for a suitable time to pass. Maybe he went back 421 00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:12,080 Speaker 9: to the boat and he fell asleep. None of it 422 00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:15,040 Speaker 9: is excusable, but none of it is acceptable as a 423 00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:16,480 Speaker 9: reason not to call the post Guard. 424 00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:20,920 Speaker 3: And of course there is the little town there. Back 425 00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:25,760 Speaker 3: to Jeff Jones joining us from ASAR Disaster Area Response Team, 426 00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:31,160 Speaker 3: what can you tell me about how far the yacht 427 00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:35,720 Speaker 3: was moored from the town and what about the town itself? 428 00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:38,280 Speaker 5: I would say between one hundred and forty one hundred 429 00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:40,359 Speaker 5: and sixty feet and it's just around the corner from 430 00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:43,000 Speaker 5: Cruise Bay, in which Cruise Bay is our local town. 431 00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:46,120 Speaker 5: From Cruise Bay, which is the city center, so to speak, 432 00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:48,920 Speaker 5: for our island here on Saint John. It's where all 433 00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:53,880 Speaker 5: the bars, restaurants, shopping, the watersports, the dive shops. Everything's 434 00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:57,520 Speaker 5: located at It's maybe a three minute walk from there, 435 00:23:57,560 --> 00:24:00,000 Speaker 5: just around the corner in another bay called Frank. 436 00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:02,720 Speaker 2: Bay, So very very close. 437 00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:06,399 Speaker 3: But the issue is, what are we supposed to believe 438 00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:10,360 Speaker 3: that she jumped into the water and swam ashore. I mean, 439 00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:15,080 Speaker 3: tell me about the underwater terrain, Jeff. 440 00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:18,719 Speaker 5: Where it's at exactly. It is probably between fifteen to 441 00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:22,639 Speaker 5: twenty feet feet, but within fifty feet it gets into 442 00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:27,240 Speaker 5: five foot of water. It's a very very clear bay 443 00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:31,000 Speaker 5: that's primarily sandy bottom with some rocks and reef and 444 00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:34,800 Speaker 5: ball but for the most part, it's a pretty shallow bay. 445 00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:36,560 Speaker 5: Most of all of our waters down in the Caribbean 446 00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:39,360 Speaker 5: are shallow. When we initially started began doing our grid 447 00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:42,040 Speaker 5: search patterns, we were doing in small craft, trying to 448 00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:45,760 Speaker 5: cover the most amount of area quickly, and we were 449 00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:49,119 Speaker 5: most of that was done, you know, visually above the 450 00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:52,360 Speaker 5: water because the water is so clear. At the next day, 451 00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:55,920 Speaker 5: when we were doing dies in forty to fifty foot 452 00:24:55,920 --> 00:25:00,560 Speaker 5: of water, we could see, you know, visibility forty fifty 453 00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:01,640 Speaker 5: foot deep easily. 454 00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:05,160 Speaker 3: You know, I'm also curious and I'm going to throw 455 00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:08,280 Speaker 3: this to Andrew and Kate, I want you to hear 456 00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:12,800 Speaker 3: what she left behind on her boyfriend's yacht. 457 00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:16,720 Speaker 11: Sarm's phone, wallet, and passport were left behind on the 458 00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:19,320 Speaker 11: boat and it turned over to the police. An intensive 459 00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:22,920 Speaker 11: search of the coastline begins, with dogs on shore, divers 460 00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:26,119 Speaker 11: in the water, and drones overhead. As word spreads of 461 00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:28,880 Speaker 11: the missing woman. A local dog walker on Saint John 462 00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:31,199 Speaker 11: says they heard a scream out at see in the 463 00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:34,240 Speaker 11: direction of where the catamaran was anchored around the time 464 00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:35,640 Speaker 11: of Sarm's disappearance. 465 00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:40,360 Speaker 3: So one person hears a scream, they think they don't 466 00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:45,200 Speaker 3: know where it came from. I'm also intrigued Andrew Baldwin, 467 00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:46,920 Speaker 3: Okay suspicious. 468 00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:50,399 Speaker 2: Her wallet, her phone, her. 469 00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:56,560 Speaker 3: Passport all still on the yacht. So that completely destroys 470 00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:57,840 Speaker 3: the theory that she. 471 00:25:57,960 --> 00:25:59,520 Speaker 2: Went back in town. 472 00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:04,960 Speaker 3: Somehow what swam and went back into town even though 473 00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:09,720 Speaker 3: everything was closed during COVID dripping wet and uh oh, 474 00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:12,639 Speaker 3: she figured out her wallet, her credit cards, her ID, 475 00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:16,119 Speaker 3: her passport, so she couldn't get anything to eat, she 476 00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:17,240 Speaker 3: couldn't get anything to drink. 477 00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:19,680 Speaker 2: She's dripping wet. Help me out. 478 00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:21,879 Speaker 6: She wouldn't have left those items in the first place. 479 00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:24,879 Speaker 6: And you know, she definitely wouldn't have gone swimming. She's savvy. 480 00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:28,440 Speaker 6: She wouldn't be swimming at night. You know, hey, Owen 481 00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:31,080 Speaker 6: who traveled with her, they were really really clean. Don't 482 00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:32,960 Speaker 6: swim at night in the Caribbean on your own. You 483 00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:34,399 Speaker 6: don't swim on your own. You need to tell us 484 00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:36,719 Speaker 6: where you are. There's no reason why she would leave 485 00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:39,120 Speaker 6: those things. She wouldn't leave those things. She'll never never 486 00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:42,320 Speaker 6: get off the boat leaving her her phone, her ID, 487 00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:43,960 Speaker 6: her wallet, not willingly. 488 00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:46,399 Speaker 2: What about it, Kate Vernold's. 489 00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:49,840 Speaker 9: Yeah, I think it's ridiculous to suggest that she went 490 00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:52,800 Speaker 9: to shore and left everything. Yeah, you can have the 491 00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:56,520 Speaker 9: watertight bags, but she wouldn't swim to shore and leave 492 00:26:56,600 --> 00:27:01,240 Speaker 9: everything there. It's her passport, her iPad, her her wallet. 493 00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:05,480 Speaker 9: That the suggestion that she went to shore after seeing 494 00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:07,280 Speaker 9: that those thingers were left on the boat is just 495 00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:12,680 Speaker 9: another statement that doesn't ring true to anyone. I don't 496 00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:15,159 Speaker 9: think that that would be a viable thing that anyone 497 00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:15,520 Speaker 9: would do. 498 00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:21,240 Speaker 3: In the last weeks, newly released CCTV closed circuit TV 499 00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:26,200 Speaker 3: footage has revealed what I consider to be a very 500 00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:27,920 Speaker 3: critical clue. 501 00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:31,959 Speaker 10: Listen the family complains about the CCTV footage they are 502 00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:34,480 Speaker 10: shown by police, not just because they don't get to 503 00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:36,919 Speaker 10: see all of it, but the clothing she is wearing 504 00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:39,840 Speaker 10: in the footage is not what she is described as wearing. 505 00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:42,920 Speaker 10: According to the last witness to see her. It stated 506 00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:45,959 Speaker 10: that Sarm was wearing a black dress with flowers on it, 507 00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:48,920 Speaker 10: but in the CCTV footage she is wearing a top 508 00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:52,080 Speaker 10: with either shorts or skirt. The black dress was also 509 00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:55,240 Speaker 10: not among items returned to the family after she vanished. 510 00:27:55,960 --> 00:28:01,560 Speaker 3: Okay, that is a very big issue. Why were we 511 00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:05,560 Speaker 3: told by being the boyfriend that she's wearing a black 512 00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:09,720 Speaker 3: dress when clearly that's not what she's wearing. She's not 513 00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:13,800 Speaker 3: wearing that, and that very same black dress was not 514 00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:17,600 Speaker 3: amongst the items for clothing and all of her possessions 515 00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:21,119 Speaker 3: that were returned to the family after she disappeared. So 516 00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:25,480 Speaker 3: where's the black dress and why the wardrobe change? 517 00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:27,760 Speaker 1: Or is it all a big lie? 518 00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:30,520 Speaker 3: Andrew Baldwin, do you see the significance of this. 519 00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:35,359 Speaker 6: We've never really been able to get to the route 520 00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:39,160 Speaker 6: the crux of that issue, because you know, I think 521 00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:42,440 Speaker 6: he said that very early on about the clothing and Obviously, 522 00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:44,719 Speaker 6: no one's been able to question him or asking questions 523 00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:48,280 Speaker 6: about that point because he's now not talking and he's 524 00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:51,000 Speaker 6: so and that's just something that he could clear up. 525 00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:52,960 Speaker 7: You know, maybe there's an explanation. 526 00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:55,600 Speaker 6: I don't know, but the fact that you're not talking 527 00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:57,280 Speaker 6: means you can't tear up anything. 528 00:28:57,640 --> 00:29:00,920 Speaker 3: Kate Vernold's joining us from a roommate of arms. What 529 00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:03,440 Speaker 3: do you make of the missing black dress in the 530 00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:05,800 Speaker 3: alleged wardrobe change in the middle of the night. 531 00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:11,160 Speaker 9: I think it's possible that after the CCTV footage she 532 00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:13,400 Speaker 9: goes back to the boat, she gets changed. That could 533 00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:16,320 Speaker 9: very well be the reason that Brian says that that's 534 00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:17,000 Speaker 9: what she's wearing. 535 00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:20,640 Speaker 3: I'm sorry, no, wait, wait, wait, Kate, you're gonna have 536 00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:23,480 Speaker 3: to help me with your timeline, because we see them 537 00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:27,640 Speaker 3: on the footage going back to the dinghy, getting on 538 00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:29,640 Speaker 3: the dinghy which is going to take them back to 539 00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:34,680 Speaker 3: his yacht. He says they went to sleep at ten pm, 540 00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:40,360 Speaker 3: So change clothes into a black cocktail dress for what? 541 00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:44,840 Speaker 3: And when I mean, we see them they've gone out 542 00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:48,160 Speaker 3: to dinner, it's dark, they're heading back to the yacht, 543 00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:52,040 Speaker 3: and when was she supposed to change clothes and for what, 544 00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:54,320 Speaker 3: And where's the black dress? 545 00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:58,520 Speaker 9: Yeah, no one knows where this black dress is or 546 00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:01,240 Speaker 9: where the suggestion of a black dress even came from. 547 00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:04,920 Speaker 9: That's literally Brian's word against anyone's. And as you can 548 00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:09,200 Speaker 9: see from the CCTV footage, she's not wearing a black dress. 549 00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:12,280 Speaker 9: So is it a mistake that he made when he 550 00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:15,520 Speaker 9: described what she was wearing when she went missing, or 551 00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:20,440 Speaker 9: perhaps it is just a Freudian slip. 552 00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:24,360 Speaker 8: I have no idea where the black dress is. 553 00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:27,479 Speaker 9: We wasn't in her belongings when they were returned by 554 00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:31,600 Speaker 9: the police. So it's just another one of those little 555 00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:33,280 Speaker 9: trip ups that doesn't you know. 556 00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:43,400 Speaker 3: Okay, I appreciate your phraseology, but some would say, boyfriend, Bain, 557 00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:46,280 Speaker 3: why are you lying? She's clearly not wearing a black dress. 558 00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:50,400 Speaker 3: According to you, Bain, you leave dinner, you get on 559 00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:53,160 Speaker 3: the dinghy, you go to the yacht, and then you're 560 00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:57,240 Speaker 3: asleep very shortly after that at ten pm. That's his words, 561 00:30:57,400 --> 00:30:59,960 Speaker 3: not mine. So why the wardrobe change? You don't remember 562 00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:02,320 Speaker 3: remember what she was wearing that night a couple of 563 00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:06,080 Speaker 3: hours before. Yeah, see, I've got a problem with that. 564 00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:10,840 Speaker 3: But that said, I've got another problem when your beloved 565 00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:16,080 Speaker 3: goes missing, and instead of talking to police, you claim 566 00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:22,560 Speaker 3: the Fifth Amendment. Okay, the Fifth Amendment right to remain silent. Now, 567 00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:29,880 Speaker 3: judges instructuries you are not to consider or note that 568 00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:35,280 Speaker 3: a suspect chooses to remain silent and take the Fifth Amendment. 569 00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:38,160 Speaker 3: That's neither here nor there. But look around, everybody. 570 00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:39,520 Speaker 1: We're not in court. 571 00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:43,240 Speaker 2: We can comment, and hell. 572 00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:46,920 Speaker 3: Would freeze over before I would stay silent while my 573 00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:48,720 Speaker 3: husband is missing. 574 00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:51,520 Speaker 2: But that is what happened. Listen. 575 00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:55,280 Speaker 11: Bain's actions during the investigation have come under scrutiny from 576 00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:58,719 Speaker 11: Sarm's family. Bain claims his lawyer advises him to use 577 00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:01,720 Speaker 11: his Fourth Amendment right to prevent a full forensic search 578 00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:04,160 Speaker 11: of his yacht, and when police tried to question him, 579 00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:06,600 Speaker 11: he invokes his Fifth Amenment right to remain. 580 00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:08,480 Speaker 2: Silent and he takes off. 581 00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:12,280 Speaker 11: Bain leaves the Virgin Islands five weeks after Psarm's disappearance 582 00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:15,520 Speaker 11: while the search is ongoing, and sets sail for Grenada, 583 00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:19,200 Speaker 11: where he replaces the refrigerator in the Siren Song. Bain 584 00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:22,680 Speaker 11: then removes the name from the luxury catamaran and sells 585 00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:26,760 Speaker 11: it for around a quarter of a million dollars and more. 586 00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:32,720 Speaker 3: Dark clouds on the horizon when Bain's ex wife Cory 587 00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:34,600 Speaker 3: Stephenson rais him. 588 00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:41,960 Speaker 1: Crime stores with Nancy Grace. 589 00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:49,280 Speaker 4: With the disappearance of PSARM, Bain's ex wife, Cory Stephenson 590 00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:52,640 Speaker 4: publicly states he was violent during their marriage and he 591 00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:56,360 Speaker 4: was even arrested on domestic assault charges against her that 592 00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:57,560 Speaker 4: landed him in jail. 593 00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:03,920 Speaker 3: None of this Boat's will, Andrew Baldwin has the boyfriend 594 00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:09,720 Speaker 3: Bane just completely dropped off the map. Is like SARM 595 00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:12,080 Speaker 3: never existed. 596 00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:13,000 Speaker 7: He did, you know? 597 00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:16,440 Speaker 6: He the only person that was talking on in behalf 598 00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:19,479 Speaker 6: of it with his law was his lawyer. So we 599 00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:23,280 Speaker 6: weren't able to the police, weren't able to answer any questions. 600 00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:25,320 Speaker 6: And you know, and I don't know the US legal system, 601 00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:28,560 Speaker 6: but why can't he answer questions with the lawyer there? 602 00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:30,360 Speaker 6: Why can he? You know, I don't think the police 603 00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:32,520 Speaker 6: were saying that you're under arrest. We just want to 604 00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:35,640 Speaker 6: know what you know. And he didn't even answer those questions. 605 00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:39,680 Speaker 6: It's only been more recently that he has come out 606 00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:43,640 Speaker 6: on social media with some information that he wanted to 607 00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:46,480 Speaker 6: share some information that there's more about poking holes in 608 00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:48,160 Speaker 6: the investigation from. 609 00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:52,120 Speaker 3: His side and what would that be Andrew Baldwin that 610 00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:54,120 Speaker 3: he has shared recently. 611 00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:59,520 Speaker 6: So he said an open letter that kind of talks 612 00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:04,120 Speaker 6: about things that he thinks that that could have happened, 613 00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:09,320 Speaker 6: that talks about some and which talks about Kate Owen, 614 00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:12,160 Speaker 6: which which suggests, you know, kind of puts up a 615 00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:17,239 Speaker 6: defense and says, you know, everyone that's talking about him 616 00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:19,080 Speaker 6: is only looking at one side. They're not looking at 617 00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:22,319 Speaker 6: his side, and they're not they're asking him him. No 618 00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:24,280 Speaker 6: one could ask you because she didn't answer any questions 619 00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:27,359 Speaker 6: and you wouldn't talk. So therefore, you know, if you'd 620 00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:29,319 Speaker 6: come forward and have a conversation with the police, with 621 00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:31,440 Speaker 6: your lawyer president, maybe. 622 00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:33,160 Speaker 7: Maybe you know, maybe there's information that you have. 623 00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:36,320 Speaker 6: That could have could have could have found out earlier 624 00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:38,879 Speaker 6: what happened that night to sar you. 625 00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:43,759 Speaker 3: Know Kate Ronald's are This statement issued by the then 626 00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:51,040 Speaker 3: boyfriend basically says I didn't murder her. Why not speak 627 00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:53,799 Speaker 3: at the time the search was going on. Why just 628 00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:57,080 Speaker 3: issue a comment when you can't be questioned. 629 00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:01,560 Speaker 8: Yeah, that's absolutely no reason not to speak to the police. 630 00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:04,080 Speaker 9: If you haven't done anything wrong, then just speak to 631 00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:05,520 Speaker 9: the police and tell them what you know. 632 00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:08,319 Speaker 8: His attorney said that. 633 00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:12,320 Speaker 9: There's nothing wrong with him getting an attorney before he 634 00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:15,480 Speaker 9: calls the coast guard. That's perfectly normal. I don't think 635 00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:19,360 Speaker 9: that's personally perfectly normal at all. I don't think anyone 636 00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:22,760 Speaker 9: would even think to do that unless they've done something wrong. 637 00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:25,839 Speaker 9: If your loved one, your friend, a crew member has 638 00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:29,960 Speaker 9: gone missing, and you've done nothing wrong and there's no 639 00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:35,280 Speaker 9: foul play, why do you need to call your attorney. 640 00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:37,000 Speaker 8: I don't think that's normal behavior. 641 00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:43,920 Speaker 9: I think it's completely not normal to seek for help 642 00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:46,240 Speaker 9: and to tell your story, to tell. 643 00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:49,600 Speaker 8: The police what's happened. Is not normal to go into social. 644 00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:52,840 Speaker 9: Media and post your story before you've even spoken to 645 00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:56,719 Speaker 9: the police. And just to add to that, his attorney 646 00:35:56,840 --> 00:36:00,239 Speaker 9: said that if the police did want to speak to him, 647 00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:02,200 Speaker 9: all they had to do is reach out to Ryan 648 00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:04,240 Speaker 9: and ask him to come back and make a statement. 649 00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:06,920 Speaker 8: Why do the police need to ask you to come 650 00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:07,680 Speaker 8: back and do that. 651 00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:13,360 Speaker 9: You were her boyfriend, you supposedly loved her, and your heartbroken. 652 00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:15,879 Speaker 8: Why aren't you just voluntarily going back to. 653 00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:18,160 Speaker 9: The US Virgin Islands and speaking to the police to 654 00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:18,960 Speaker 9: make your statement. 655 00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:21,520 Speaker 8: Why do you have to be asked. 656 00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:26,080 Speaker 3: In this bizarre five page quote open letter the so 657 00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:31,200 Speaker 3: called boyfriend Ryan Bain, speaks mostly about himself, how he 658 00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:35,640 Speaker 3: has been vilified and placed under a quote false sense 659 00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:39,880 Speaker 3: of suspicion, and he says the truth is I just 660 00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:41,360 Speaker 3: wanted to protect myself. 661 00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:45,920 Speaker 2: Okay, I have a concern with that. 662 00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:48,920 Speaker 3: Of course, if this ever did go to a jury 663 00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:51,760 Speaker 3: trial and he is presumed innocent, of course. 664 00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:55,880 Speaker 2: No one could comment on his right to remain silent. 665 00:36:56,080 --> 00:36:59,280 Speaker 3: But we're not in court. We can analyze the facts 666 00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:03,920 Speaker 3: as we see them. The letter is addressed to investigative journalists, 667 00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:07,720 Speaker 3: and for the most part, rails against what he calls 668 00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:14,040 Speaker 3: unfair coverage, accusing the media of omitting crucial facts. 669 00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:16,440 Speaker 2: Really, what facts? 670 00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:18,240 Speaker 1: What facts? 671 00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:22,480 Speaker 2: If he has facts. 672 00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:26,239 Speaker 3: That are unknown to everyone else, let's hear them. 673 00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:29,240 Speaker 2: He claims, no one observes signs of a fight. 674 00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:32,719 Speaker 3: Was anybody else on the yacht that could have seen 675 00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:36,840 Speaker 3: the fight if it existed? No evidence of an argument? Really, 676 00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:39,359 Speaker 3: no one else was on the yacht. Nobody knows what 677 00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:42,880 Speaker 3: has happened on the yacht. No scratches are marks to 678 00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:46,759 Speaker 3: suggest a struggle. Isn't it true that he would not 679 00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:50,680 Speaker 3: allow searches of his yacht so we don't know what 680 00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:57,680 Speaker 3: shape the yacht was in. I welcome mister Bain to 681 00:37:57,880 --> 00:38:01,000 Speaker 3: join us here on crime stories and give us his 682 00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:04,200 Speaker 3: side of the story and recount all the facts to 683 00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:08,480 Speaker 3: which he is referring that point to his innocence. In 684 00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:12,400 Speaker 3: the meantime, if you know or think you know anything 685 00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:17,719 Speaker 3: about the case, please dial eight hundred two two two 686 00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:22,040 Speaker 3: eight four seven seven repeat eight hundred two two two 687 00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:29,360 Speaker 3: eight four seven seven. We wait as justice unfals. Now 688 00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:33,680 Speaker 3: we remember an American hero, Sheriff Robert Rogers, Wilcotx County 689 00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:37,520 Speaker 3: Sheriff's Georgia, killed in the line of duty after twenty 690 00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:42,720 Speaker 3: two years in law enforcement, leaving behind a grieving widow. 691 00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:51,200 Speaker 3: Healey and son Robert. American hero Sheriff Robert Rogers. Nancy 692 00:38:51,239 --> 00:38:56,680 Speaker 3: Gray signing off goodbye friend 693 00:39:00,600 --> 00:39:00,839 Speaker 8: Eve.