1 00:00:06,040 --> 00:00:10,520 Speaker 1: Welcome to Strictly Business Varieties, weekly podcasts featuring conversations with 2 00:00:10,560 --> 00:00:14,440 Speaker 1: industry leaders about the business of media and entertainment. I'm 3 00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:18,320 Speaker 1: Cynthia Littleton, business editor of Variety Today. My guest is 4 00:00:18,400 --> 00:00:21,640 Speaker 1: Chuck Laurie. Laurie is one of the most successful producers 5 00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:24,400 Speaker 1: in the history of television. If there's ever a Hall 6 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:26,840 Speaker 1: of Fame for comedy showrunners, he'll be one of the 7 00:00:26,840 --> 00:00:30,480 Speaker 1: first inductees. Laurie and I sat down on December five 8 00:00:30,560 --> 00:00:33,919 Speaker 1: in West Hollywood for a conversation about how his business, 9 00:00:34,200 --> 00:00:37,840 Speaker 1: the business of creating TV series, has changed so dramatically 10 00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:41,200 Speaker 1: in just the past few years. Laurie is the contemporary 11 00:00:41,280 --> 00:00:44,520 Speaker 1: king of broadcast TV comedy. His shows over the years 12 00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:47,200 Speaker 1: have included Dharma and Greg, Two and a Half Men, 13 00:00:47,640 --> 00:00:51,680 Speaker 1: The Big Bang Theory, Mike and Molly, Mom and Young Sheldon. 14 00:00:52,479 --> 00:00:55,320 Speaker 1: Most recently, he's worked on two very different shows that 15 00:00:55,400 --> 00:00:59,640 Speaker 1: reflect the breath of creative opportunities in TV, the Kaminsky 16 00:00:59,720 --> 00:01:04,240 Speaker 1: Method for Netflix and the CBS comedy Bob Heart's Abashola. 17 00:01:05,880 --> 00:01:09,279 Speaker 1: In this interview, held as part of varieties manual Innovate Summit, 18 00:01:09,800 --> 00:01:14,279 Speaker 1: Lori compares and contrast the working experience in streaming versus 19 00:01:14,280 --> 00:01:18,360 Speaker 1: broadcast television. He also offers some frank thoughts about the 20 00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:21,760 Speaker 1: prolonged battle between the Writer's Guild of America and Hollywood's 21 00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:26,280 Speaker 1: largest talent agencies. Tell us how the expansion of platforms 22 00:01:26,319 --> 00:01:31,640 Speaker 1: and opportunities for shows has affected your development process, your 23 00:01:31,640 --> 00:01:39,119 Speaker 1: brainstorming process, as you are as you are creating content. Um, 24 00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:43,120 Speaker 1: I actually don't think about platforms at all. Um. If 25 00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:48,160 Speaker 1: something feels like it, it's worth writing about, exciting to 26 00:01:48,160 --> 00:01:54,360 Speaker 1: write about, worth being miserable. Um, And is that just 27 00:01:54,440 --> 00:01:59,680 Speaker 1: a part of the equation, is miserable frightened. If it's 28 00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:03,880 Speaker 1: worth that, then you then you pursue it, and and 29 00:02:03,880 --> 00:02:08,800 Speaker 1: and how it's distributed is a secondary thing. It's actually 30 00:02:09,280 --> 00:02:13,640 Speaker 1: you know, it's a conversation that you have later where 31 00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:18,480 Speaker 1: might just find an audience. But you don't develop for 32 00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:23,320 Speaker 1: the distribution, you know. Um, you don't wake up thinking 33 00:02:23,360 --> 00:02:25,440 Speaker 1: this is a great idea for streaming, this is a 34 00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:29,640 Speaker 1: great idea for a broadcasting. Well, when I was developing 35 00:02:29,800 --> 00:02:33,720 Speaker 1: U the Kaminsky method, I never really questioned whether or 36 00:02:33,760 --> 00:02:36,519 Speaker 1: not I was going to walk into a network and 37 00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:38,920 Speaker 1: say I want to do a show about old guys 38 00:02:39,480 --> 00:02:45,480 Speaker 1: and their prostate issues, and I knew that would probably 39 00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:48,760 Speaker 1: be a nonstarter, you know, because that that's still a 40 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:52,560 Speaker 1: business seems to be driven by demographics, whereas the streaming 41 00:02:52,760 --> 00:02:57,560 Speaker 1: environments driven by subscriptions. So how old you are is irrelevant. 42 00:02:57,880 --> 00:03:00,519 Speaker 1: It's do you are you there or not? Is all 43 00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:03,280 Speaker 1: that matters? Right? Do you pay the monthly bill? Yeah? 44 00:03:03,320 --> 00:03:08,640 Speaker 1: Which is you know, from a writing perspective, is liberating. 45 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:11,880 Speaker 1: You're not concerned with how old the audience is. You're 46 00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:15,360 Speaker 1: concerned with whether or not there is one, and it 47 00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:18,799 Speaker 1: doesn't you know, you're not differentiating between groups of people 48 00:03:19,840 --> 00:03:24,320 Speaker 1: so well, you may not may not like specifically craft 49 00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:27,239 Speaker 1: ideas at the very germ stage for an ABC or 50 00:03:27,280 --> 00:03:29,800 Speaker 1: a Hulu or a Netflix. It sounds like that from 51 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:32,400 Speaker 1: what you're saying, though, is that just the awareness that 52 00:03:32,440 --> 00:03:34,560 Speaker 1: there are so many more platforms that will that are 53 00:03:34,639 --> 00:03:38,120 Speaker 1: interested in shows allowed you to pursue something like I 54 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:41,360 Speaker 1: wanted to write about what, you know, the minutia of 55 00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:44,440 Speaker 1: getting older. You know, I didn't want to do you know, 56 00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:48,080 Speaker 1: two old guys rob a bank. You know, I wanted 57 00:03:48,120 --> 00:03:50,960 Speaker 1: to do that perfectly. It's been done. It's been done, 58 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:53,280 Speaker 1: it's been done very well. It's been done a lot, 59 00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:56,400 Speaker 1: but I wanted to do, uh, you know, to write 60 00:03:56,400 --> 00:04:01,960 Speaker 1: about you know, the through this friendship. Yeah, the different 61 00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:06,160 Speaker 1: issues that aren't necessarily discussed, and I thought actually could 62 00:04:06,200 --> 00:04:11,119 Speaker 1: be funny, especially in the hands of Michael Douglas Alan Arkin, 63 00:04:11,560 --> 00:04:13,960 Speaker 1: who played just to just for those who are going 64 00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:15,720 Speaker 1: to run out of this room and watch commits came 65 00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:18,960 Speaker 1: at the day there if they're not it is. The 66 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:22,480 Speaker 1: basic premise is Michael Douglas plays a character actor who's 67 00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:25,800 Speaker 1: known as an acting coach. Alan Arkin plays his longtime agent, 68 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:31,440 Speaker 1: and they navigate Hollywood as you know they navigated. Yeah, 69 00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:35,120 Speaker 1: they just navigate you know, losing loved ones, health issues, 70 00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:42,400 Speaker 1: adult children with serious issues. Um and uh and you know, 71 00:04:42,520 --> 00:04:49,240 Speaker 1: just the fears of being irrelevant is an issue that 72 00:04:49,320 --> 00:04:52,000 Speaker 1: you can write about in an environment like that where 73 00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:58,360 Speaker 1: you're not concerned about eighteen to right. The tone of 74 00:04:58,400 --> 00:05:01,320 Speaker 1: the show is so s cific and so it as 75 00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:03,520 Speaker 1: you say, it deals with heavy issues. In the first season, 76 00:05:03,520 --> 00:05:06,120 Speaker 1: Alan Arkin's character was dealing, excuse me, with the loss 77 00:05:06,160 --> 00:05:09,200 Speaker 1: of his wife. How do you how do you navigate 78 00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:18,000 Speaker 1: the tone of that show? Gingerly, inefficiently? Um, I'm I'm 79 00:05:18,200 --> 00:05:21,360 Speaker 1: I'm trying. I'm a comedy writer. That's what I've been 80 00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:30,200 Speaker 1: doing for thirty years. So um, I'll get that. Um. 81 00:05:30,440 --> 00:05:34,320 Speaker 1: I think that if you're putting something forward and you're 82 00:05:34,360 --> 00:05:37,320 Speaker 1: calling it a comedy, there's a there's an obligation that 83 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:43,600 Speaker 1: laughter should somewhere be involved, you know. Um. Laughter, not 84 00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:47,760 Speaker 1: old my, that's amusing, right, but laughter. Um. And so 85 00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:51,400 Speaker 1: that that's the way I write. I'm looking for those 86 00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:57,080 Speaker 1: moments that might actually be genuinely funny. But this, this environment, 87 00:05:57,120 --> 00:05:59,760 Speaker 1: this platform, not working in front of an audience, which 88 00:05:59,760 --> 00:06:07,279 Speaker 1: is what I've been doing, allowed for more intimate moments. 89 00:06:08,320 --> 00:06:12,200 Speaker 1: The pacing changes, um, you know you're pacing in front 90 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:16,400 Speaker 1: of an audience is much more rapid. And also in 91 00:06:16,480 --> 00:06:20,120 Speaker 1: network television, I'm not telling anybody anything they don't know 92 00:06:21,400 --> 00:06:23,600 Speaker 1: right now, it's about twenty one minutes when you take 93 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:26,840 Speaker 1: out the commercials, which is like haiku, yeah, it's it's 94 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:31,680 Speaker 1: really it's it's a limerick almost, And and you're and 95 00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:35,719 Speaker 1: you're constantly writing up knowing that you could lose the 96 00:06:35,760 --> 00:06:39,880 Speaker 1: audience at any minute. And and and if they break 97 00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:43,920 Speaker 1: for four minutes of commercials, which will all be drugs, 98 00:06:44,040 --> 00:06:51,400 Speaker 1: I believe all drugs now drugs and f one um, 99 00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:55,440 Speaker 1: they may not come back. I mean, the commercials are 100 00:06:55,680 --> 00:07:01,240 Speaker 1: h this this this obstacle to maintaining relationship with the audience. 101 00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:05,640 Speaker 1: And so you're always writing hoping that whatever you're doing 102 00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:09,440 Speaker 1: is enough to pull them along and ask the audience 103 00:07:09,480 --> 00:07:14,320 Speaker 1: to put up with the interruption. So it's a different 104 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:19,360 Speaker 1: kind of writing. It's it's it's somewhat fear based, I think, uh, 105 00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:25,640 Speaker 1: and that the relationship is so fragile. Working now that 106 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:27,600 Speaker 1: you have worked on a couple of shows in the 107 00:07:27,640 --> 00:07:31,280 Speaker 1: commercial free realm, has that heightened your sensitivity to the 108 00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:33,520 Speaker 1: to the to writing a show where you know you 109 00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:35,120 Speaker 1: have to have your act breaks. You know you're going 110 00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:37,440 Speaker 1: to have those four minutes for you know, four or 111 00:07:37,440 --> 00:07:39,960 Speaker 1: five minute pods of downtime for the audience. Well, you're 112 00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:43,400 Speaker 1: not writing to enact break right in the commercial free room, 113 00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:45,720 Speaker 1: there's no you know, you're not writing to the perils 114 00:07:45,720 --> 00:07:49,080 Speaker 1: of Pauline Cliffhand, which we hope will bring the audience 115 00:07:49,280 --> 00:07:56,560 Speaker 1: back four minutes of cholestral drugs and and um, so 116 00:07:56,640 --> 00:08:03,400 Speaker 1: the story just flows and and and also in like 117 00:08:03,480 --> 00:08:07,320 Speaker 1: the Netflix environment, Uh, if the audience is watching show four, 118 00:08:07,840 --> 00:08:11,360 Speaker 1: you know they've watched one, two and three, nobody jumps 119 00:08:11,440 --> 00:08:16,640 Speaker 1: into a binge environment in the middle UM and network television, 120 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:19,760 Speaker 1: you never know whither the audience was there last week. 121 00:08:20,760 --> 00:08:23,720 Speaker 1: In fact, even if the show is really successful, I've 122 00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:25,720 Speaker 1: been told I don't know, I've never known this to 123 00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:28,680 Speaker 1: be verified, but the audience turnover from week to week, 124 00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:32,440 Speaker 1: even in a big hit show is enormous. The ratings 125 00:08:32,440 --> 00:08:35,000 Speaker 1: may be the same, but the audience, the actual the 126 00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:38,480 Speaker 1: human beings who have watching the show, changes dramatically week 127 00:08:38,520 --> 00:08:42,440 Speaker 1: to week, and so you don't have that continuity of storytelling. 128 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:46,360 Speaker 1: So Kaminski to me, was like a four hour movie. 129 00:08:47,120 --> 00:08:50,679 Speaker 1: You know, eight episodes around thirty minutes a piece, and 130 00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:54,480 Speaker 1: you can't you can't talk about this without realizing that 131 00:08:54,559 --> 00:08:57,719 Speaker 1: the it doesn't matter if it's thirty two minutes or 132 00:08:57,760 --> 00:08:59,800 Speaker 1: twenty two minutes or twenty eight minutes. Just tell the 133 00:08:59,800 --> 00:09:03,959 Speaker 1: best story that you can and you're not You're not 134 00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:07,120 Speaker 1: locked into that box that has to be twenty one 135 00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:11,280 Speaker 1: minutes long. Um, I've never known that kind of freedom 136 00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:14,480 Speaker 1: it was. It's really something. Was that a whole new 137 00:09:14,559 --> 00:09:16,800 Speaker 1: muscle that you had to develop in terms of in 138 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:20,240 Speaker 1: terms of your process is to get the show on time. 139 00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:25,280 Speaker 1: You know, after thirty years of network television, I've been 140 00:09:25,280 --> 00:09:29,200 Speaker 1: trained to, you know, try and estimate how long will 141 00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:32,760 Speaker 1: this script be? Will it fit in that eight to 142 00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:36,480 Speaker 1: eight thirty box or eight? Well it's you know again, 143 00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:39,240 Speaker 1: it's twenty one minutes and change. I'm not exactly sure. 144 00:09:39,280 --> 00:09:44,560 Speaker 1: But um, when you're writing a script in the streaming universe, 145 00:09:45,240 --> 00:09:49,000 Speaker 1: you just write the script and uh, and it's really 146 00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:52,800 Speaker 1: not a concern, which from a writing perspective is is 147 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:57,320 Speaker 1: a joy? Is there a aspect of um? You said 148 00:09:57,360 --> 00:10:00,280 Speaker 1: that the streaming shows tend to be more intimate, kind 149 00:10:00,280 --> 00:10:05,280 Speaker 1: of more more um, you know, a different type of 150 00:10:05,320 --> 00:10:08,480 Speaker 1: storytelling because even well even you know, without an audience, 151 00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:10,960 Speaker 1: the camera can come in close. I've never done that. 152 00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:16,200 Speaker 1: I mean, the the four camera show is essentially a 153 00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:19,280 Speaker 1: play put on in front of an audience, and the 154 00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:23,160 Speaker 1: camera never gets much closer than here. The elbows and 155 00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:26,800 Speaker 1: so the face of an actor, which is a powerful, 156 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:28,880 Speaker 1: powerful thing when you have the right actor, when you 157 00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:33,640 Speaker 1: have Michael Douglas Elan Arkin is a is uh something 158 00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:36,800 Speaker 1: you don't have access to in front of an audience. So, 159 00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:40,640 Speaker 1: you know, shooting without the audience, shooting shooting it as 160 00:10:40,679 --> 00:10:44,880 Speaker 1: a film was an entirely different way of telling a story, 161 00:10:44,920 --> 00:10:47,000 Speaker 1: which was new to honest, it was new to me. 162 00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:49,640 Speaker 1: I had to learn how to do it. And is 163 00:10:49,679 --> 00:10:53,320 Speaker 1: there is there a process of whereas if you're writing 164 00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:55,319 Speaker 1: a networks that comment might be more of a writer's 165 00:10:55,400 --> 00:10:58,600 Speaker 1: room situation where you're coming up with ideas and stories 166 00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:01,079 Speaker 1: and lines versus you have to do twenty two to 167 00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:05,599 Speaker 1: twenty four shows and nine months. I've watched people treated me. 168 00:11:06,160 --> 00:11:08,360 Speaker 1: I've watched people try and do that alone, and it 169 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:10,640 Speaker 1: seems to be a recipe for failure. If you do 170 00:11:10,679 --> 00:11:13,440 Speaker 1: it alone, you burn out. You just burn out. And 171 00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:17,040 Speaker 1: I've seen remarkable writers burnout if they think that's a 172 00:11:17,080 --> 00:11:20,679 Speaker 1: one manager. It's not. It's it's too much. It's exhausting. 173 00:11:21,200 --> 00:11:24,280 Speaker 1: So this was eight episodes of which you know, I 174 00:11:25,080 --> 00:11:27,199 Speaker 1: wrote them all. I co wrote the last two and 175 00:11:27,240 --> 00:11:30,920 Speaker 1: I wrote the first six because I wanted to. And uh, 176 00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:35,840 Speaker 1: and it was actually it was I hadn't written alone, 177 00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:41,720 Speaker 1: and since it was, it was. But it was also 178 00:11:41,760 --> 00:11:44,480 Speaker 1: liberating because I I thought, well, look at that. I 179 00:11:44,760 --> 00:11:48,120 Speaker 1: I'm doing this because I believe in it. There's no 180 00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:50,720 Speaker 1: senses being taken with a room full of comedy writers. 181 00:11:51,520 --> 00:11:55,520 Speaker 1: I'm not looking for anyone to say, it's okay, I'm 182 00:11:55,559 --> 00:11:58,800 Speaker 1: just I just I believe in this, let's shoot this. 183 00:11:58,960 --> 00:12:01,320 Speaker 1: And if it's wrong, what's wrong on me? It's it's 184 00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:05,160 Speaker 1: you know. And but the training and four camera shows 185 00:12:05,160 --> 00:12:08,480 Speaker 1: in front of an audience is still if the audience 186 00:12:08,520 --> 00:12:10,520 Speaker 1: doesn't laugh. When you're putting on a show, when you're 187 00:12:10,520 --> 00:12:12,920 Speaker 1: doing the Big Bang theory and there's two some odd 188 00:12:12,920 --> 00:12:15,839 Speaker 1: people there and they're they're they're eager to see the show. 189 00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:18,800 Speaker 1: They wait two years to get tickets to see that show. 190 00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:21,840 Speaker 1: If they don't laugh, we rewrite the material right there 191 00:12:21,840 --> 00:12:24,800 Speaker 1: and re reshoot the scenes in front of them. So 192 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:28,439 Speaker 1: I'm still even without the audience, I'm still the audience 193 00:12:28,520 --> 00:12:31,160 Speaker 1: is in my head. I can't get them out, you know. 194 00:12:31,280 --> 00:12:33,920 Speaker 1: I mean, you just you can't ignore the fact. You 195 00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:39,280 Speaker 1: can't look at something and go it's not funny, moving on, 196 00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:43,200 Speaker 1: you know what I mean? No, No, there's no moving on. 197 00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:46,400 Speaker 1: It doesn't work. The quiet is the death knel for you. Yeah, 198 00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:48,560 Speaker 1: And if you don't think it's gonna work, then then 199 00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:52,200 Speaker 1: you can't move forward, which which is why you know, 200 00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:55,720 Speaker 1: my baby sat every moment of shooting the commiskey method. 201 00:12:55,760 --> 00:12:59,200 Speaker 1: I was there on the set uh on every episode, 202 00:12:59,440 --> 00:13:02,280 Speaker 1: on every because I didn't want to go to editing 203 00:13:02,320 --> 00:13:04,679 Speaker 1: and find out it didn't work. I want to know now. 204 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:11,400 Speaker 1: And frankly, you know about I hate to say, it's 205 00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:16,000 Speaker 1: probably about of every script doesn't work, you know, I 206 00:13:16,040 --> 00:13:20,120 Speaker 1: wish I was better? And when when when you're shooting 207 00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:22,400 Speaker 1: not with an audience, but when you're shooting a single 208 00:13:22,440 --> 00:13:25,840 Speaker 1: camera show like Kaminski, when is there a point when 209 00:13:25,880 --> 00:13:28,040 Speaker 1: you kind of get that sense of oh, that's the 210 00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:31,560 Speaker 1: tht that doesn't work. You don't have that, and you 211 00:13:31,559 --> 00:13:33,679 Speaker 1: have that, you get that through you get a great actor. 212 00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:36,080 Speaker 1: When you get a great actor, you know, Alison Janney 213 00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:39,360 Speaker 1: says a line and it's not funny, it's the line. 214 00:13:39,960 --> 00:13:43,600 Speaker 1: You know, it's the star of your CBS show Mom. Yeah, 215 00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:49,920 Speaker 1: so yes, multiple everything winning, she's amazing. So you know, 216 00:13:51,160 --> 00:13:55,000 Speaker 1: change the line because you know, m because if it's 217 00:13:55,080 --> 00:13:58,559 Speaker 1: remotely good, Alison's going to knock it out of the park. Right, 218 00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:04,280 Speaker 1: But you didn't promise myself baseball metaphors, um, but you didn't. 219 00:14:04,520 --> 00:14:06,760 Speaker 1: Do you have that same experience if you're doing like 220 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:09,560 Speaker 1: a run through or read through with so yeah, you'll 221 00:14:09,559 --> 00:14:11,880 Speaker 1: have that same experience. It's just a different setting where 222 00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:14,640 Speaker 1: you it's an internal setting. I mean you have to 223 00:14:14,760 --> 00:14:17,440 Speaker 1: you know the audience. There's no audience, it's it's it's 224 00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:22,200 Speaker 1: internally going. This isn't very good. And I got these 225 00:14:22,240 --> 00:14:26,880 Speaker 1: two world class actors here, so it's the script. It's script. 226 00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:30,040 Speaker 1: So'll fix the script? Is uh? You know? Because the 227 00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:34,240 Speaker 1: alternative and that's another thing that I did not have 228 00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:39,440 Speaker 1: an audience shows you can't really edit your way out 229 00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:42,280 Speaker 1: of a bad scene. It's kind of what it is. 230 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:49,720 Speaker 1: Um uh, So best to fix it before you shoot it, 231 00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:52,880 Speaker 1: then try and fix it in an editing day. And 232 00:14:52,920 --> 00:14:56,640 Speaker 1: that sounds like something you've learned through years of experience. Yeah, yeah, Yeah, 233 00:14:56,720 --> 00:15:00,360 Speaker 1: it's much easier to acknowledge the fact that you're not 234 00:15:00,360 --> 00:15:03,920 Speaker 1: as smart as you think you are. Fixed the script, funny, 235 00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:07,960 Speaker 1: fixed the script and then and then shoot it on Kaminski. 236 00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:10,400 Speaker 1: Are there people that Are there people that you rely 237 00:15:10,480 --> 00:15:12,360 Speaker 1: on to tell you or is it you really go 238 00:15:12,440 --> 00:15:15,480 Speaker 1: on your gut? In turn? Al Hagan's uh was with 239 00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:17,440 Speaker 1: me every step of the way. And Al and I 240 00:15:17,480 --> 00:15:20,560 Speaker 1: worked together on Mike and Molly, and we're working together 241 00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:24,000 Speaker 1: on Bob Heart's at the Shola, and I leaned on 242 00:15:24,080 --> 00:15:27,760 Speaker 1: him heavily in the in in a show where where 243 00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:30,320 Speaker 1: all the episodes drop at once in the binge model, 244 00:15:30,320 --> 00:15:33,760 Speaker 1: like a Netflix show, is there a pressure or do 245 00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:36,280 Speaker 1: you feel a need to because people might be watching 246 00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:38,080 Speaker 1: multiple in a row, do you feel a need to 247 00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:40,760 Speaker 1: kind of have a real cliffhanger or something very compelling 248 00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:44,280 Speaker 1: at the end to bring people into another episode, to 249 00:15:44,360 --> 00:15:47,720 Speaker 1: keep them from stopping when the next episode automatically starts. 250 00:15:48,040 --> 00:15:50,480 Speaker 1: I was really worried about that because, you know, after 251 00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:55,840 Speaker 1: doing the one show a week for many many years, Um, 252 00:15:55,880 --> 00:16:01,200 Speaker 1: I didn't know. I didn't understand having them all be there. Um. 253 00:16:01,240 --> 00:16:04,000 Speaker 1: But it turns out that having them all there for 254 00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:09,320 Speaker 1: the viewer is like giving them a book. And you 255 00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:11,400 Speaker 1: can read a chapter in a book and then you 256 00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:13,200 Speaker 1: can read the next chapter, or you can put the 257 00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:16,520 Speaker 1: book down right and it's time to go to sleep. 258 00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:18,840 Speaker 1: It's time to go to sleep, or hey, that was 259 00:16:18,920 --> 00:16:20,480 Speaker 1: really good, I want to see what happens next, and 260 00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:24,280 Speaker 1: you keep reading, so uh, it changes the way the 261 00:16:24,320 --> 00:16:29,000 Speaker 1: story unfolds the story. It's not so episodic. In other reason, 262 00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:33,440 Speaker 1: the the thirty minutes doesn't have to wrap everything up, 263 00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:37,200 Speaker 1: which you're kind of under pressure to do that. In 264 00:16:37,240 --> 00:16:39,560 Speaker 1: a network show because you don't know if the audience 265 00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:44,440 Speaker 1: is going to be back the phone, right. Um. One 266 00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:47,840 Speaker 1: of the things that is also changing about UM, you know, 267 00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:51,360 Speaker 1: outside from the creative the sort of qualitative aspect of 268 00:16:51,400 --> 00:16:54,760 Speaker 1: TV is behind the scenes, there are the advent of 269 00:16:54,760 --> 00:16:57,920 Speaker 1: streaming and the introduction of a lot of money into 270 00:16:57,960 --> 00:17:00,200 Speaker 1: the system, which you know, which isn't a certain is 271 00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:02,200 Speaker 1: not a bad thing for the creative community, but a 272 00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:06,119 Speaker 1: lot of compensation formulas, the way writers get paid, the 273 00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:11,119 Speaker 1: way series are valued, long term remuneration for hard working 274 00:17:11,119 --> 00:17:15,440 Speaker 1: creators and showrunners is changing. You have had great success 275 00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:18,320 Speaker 1: in broadcast TV. Is any of what is changing in 276 00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:20,800 Speaker 1: the streaming world? Does that give you concern? There's a 277 00:17:20,840 --> 00:17:22,159 Speaker 1: lot of you know, there's a lot of debate going 278 00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:24,920 Speaker 1: on in the industry right now about about how streaming 279 00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:27,280 Speaker 1: is going to affect the whole world of profit participation 280 00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:34,240 Speaker 1: and creative remuneration. If these different streaming platforms are all 281 00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:39,679 Speaker 1: there and are thriving, then they become the new maybe 282 00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:47,560 Speaker 1: aftermarket for a show that's successful, they buy out your syndication. Essentially. Yeah, 283 00:17:47,880 --> 00:17:50,119 Speaker 1: I didn't really think. I didn't really give that a 284 00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:53,159 Speaker 1: second thought until a few months ago. It dawned on 285 00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:56,440 Speaker 1: me that that might in fact be what replaces Channel nine, 286 00:17:57,119 --> 00:17:59,520 Speaker 1: you know, w o R in New York, which would 287 00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:04,639 Speaker 1: buy reruns of a half hour comedy. Um, that was 288 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:09,119 Speaker 1: a Tribune and Fox and all these different stations, the 289 00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:12,680 Speaker 1: local broadcast syndication that was the home run. That maybe 290 00:18:12,680 --> 00:18:17,040 Speaker 1: the market for television shows after they're on a network, 291 00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:20,600 Speaker 1: maybe that moves to It certainly seems to be doing 292 00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:25,720 Speaker 1: that when Friends and Fraser and The Office, things like 293 00:18:25,760 --> 00:18:29,159 Speaker 1: that seem to be valuable, not only old shows but 294 00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:31,480 Speaker 1: even even the shows that are being you know, a 295 00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:36,280 Speaker 1: Kaminsky method is your guessing that your financial template is 296 00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:40,560 Speaker 1: very different, But it sounds like you're focused on I 297 00:18:40,680 --> 00:18:42,560 Speaker 1: just wanted to do this. I didn't even think you 298 00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:44,000 Speaker 1: want to make your shows. I just wanted to make 299 00:18:44,040 --> 00:18:47,240 Speaker 1: this show. I wasn't even thinking about that. Am I 300 00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:50,359 Speaker 1: doing on that? Peter, we would break even, we even 301 00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:54,720 Speaker 1: kind of red black? But all right, call the Ted 302 00:18:54,760 --> 00:18:58,960 Speaker 1: surrenders later today. Um, you are right now, you are well. 303 00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:01,600 Speaker 1: You you finished season two of Kaminski and you've got 304 00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:04,639 Speaker 1: two shows right now on on CBS, Mom and a 305 00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:09,600 Speaker 1: charming new show called Bob Heart's Abbashola and Young Sheldon 306 00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:12,160 Speaker 1: and Young Sheldon. No, yeah, I couldn't. Couldn't forget Young 307 00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:15,680 Speaker 1: Sheldon um doing juggling all these different shows, and Young 308 00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:18,120 Speaker 1: Sheldon is a different kind of network show because Young 309 00:19:18,119 --> 00:19:20,920 Speaker 1: Sheldon is also a single camera camera juggling all these 310 00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:23,800 Speaker 1: kind of different formats. Does it make you kind of 311 00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:28,159 Speaker 1: a tune to creative issues in a different way, just 312 00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:31,000 Speaker 1: since you're working so many different sort of creative muscles. 313 00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:34,600 Speaker 1: I think the two years of the Kaminsky method and 314 00:19:35,119 --> 00:19:38,920 Speaker 1: also doing Young Sheldon as a as a single camera 315 00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:41,640 Speaker 1: film show has changed the way I write. It's changed 316 00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:44,040 Speaker 1: the way I think of the pacing and tone of 317 00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:48,680 Speaker 1: the shows. Um, I it was. It was a tool 318 00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:52,240 Speaker 1: I didn't add. You know, has been doing the audience 319 00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:57,760 Speaker 1: for camera live audience show for almost thirty years. So 320 00:19:57,960 --> 00:20:01,119 Speaker 1: I'd like to think I learned so thing by doing it. 321 00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:04,399 Speaker 1: Difference doing something differently, and it changes the way you 322 00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:06,879 Speaker 1: do an audience, you know. I mean, maybe you have 323 00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:12,520 Speaker 1: more trust in a moment that isn't necessarily a big joke. 324 00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:16,920 Speaker 1: Maybe it isn't necessarily something geared to to to you know, 325 00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:20,560 Speaker 1: to surprise the audience abruptly, But it might be a 326 00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:25,840 Speaker 1: suddener moment, but but a satisfying moment. You've got just 327 00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:29,040 Speaker 1: a terrific chemistry between your leads and Bob Heart's Abashola, 328 00:20:29,119 --> 00:20:31,960 Speaker 1: and there's a lot of there's a lot of there's 329 00:20:31,960 --> 00:20:35,399 Speaker 1: a there's a there's a tonal difference a little bit 330 00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:37,800 Speaker 1: that's there's a sweetness to that show than is very 331 00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:40,760 Speaker 1: you know, different from the bump bump of the of 332 00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:44,280 Speaker 1: the classic traditional sitcom. I hope I'm not doing but 333 00:20:44,359 --> 00:20:48,320 Speaker 1: dump bump. It didn't mean it didn't mean to make 334 00:20:48,359 --> 00:20:51,560 Speaker 1: it presorative. No, no, no, I get it. Um yeah, no, 335 00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:55,119 Speaker 1: it's different. And you know, the show by design was 336 00:20:55,600 --> 00:21:02,199 Speaker 1: an opportunity to to pay homage to immigrants, not just 337 00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:06,200 Speaker 1: a romantic comedy, you know, you know, it's it's it's 338 00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:09,200 Speaker 1: not just they're very different, will they make it work? 339 00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:13,639 Speaker 1: It's it's she and her family have come from an 340 00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:16,120 Speaker 1: entirely different culture and are trying to make it work. 341 00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:20,399 Speaker 1: A Nigerian nurse immigrant in the US and a patient 342 00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:24,160 Speaker 1: Billy Gardell falls for her, and it's very Yeah. So 343 00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:27,560 Speaker 1: so that was again I just felt, well, this is interesting. 344 00:21:28,359 --> 00:21:32,520 Speaker 1: This might be a horrible, horrible idea, but it feels 345 00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:36,920 Speaker 1: exciting to try and and again, Uh, it's so far 346 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:40,400 Speaker 1: out of my comfort zone. Wouldn't have gone forward had 347 00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:43,600 Speaker 1: we not found Genie. Yes, you a who's a stand 348 00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:47,800 Speaker 1: up comedian Nigerian descent. We found her in England. She 349 00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:52,119 Speaker 1: was in London and doing stand up and um, we 350 00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:56,040 Speaker 1: flew to Los Angeles to consult and then we just 351 00:21:56,080 --> 00:21:59,159 Speaker 1: fell in love and said, no, you're not leaving, you 352 00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:01,880 Speaker 1: stay and why don't you be in this show too? 353 00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:06,359 Speaker 1: So she plays Abby Shola's best friend, Kemmy, and she 354 00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:10,119 Speaker 1: made it viable. I mean, otherwise we would I wouldn't 355 00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:11,720 Speaker 1: have done it because I don't want to. I don't 356 00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:14,480 Speaker 1: want to pretend that I know something I don't and 357 00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:19,359 Speaker 1: I certainly can't bring any you know, I've seen the 358 00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:22,600 Speaker 1: immigrant experience. I lived in Miami in the seventies and 359 00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:26,960 Speaker 1: I saw the Cuban you know, immigration, and it was exciting, 360 00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:33,560 Speaker 1: it was really exciting, and the same idea came to this. 361 00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:37,520 Speaker 1: People come to this country just full of enthusiasm and 362 00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:41,080 Speaker 1: determination to get you know, to get to to find 363 00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:45,720 Speaker 1: some ground under their feet. And it's worth writing about, absolutely, 364 00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:47,520 Speaker 1: and it's a nice it's a nice change from the 365 00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:52,919 Speaker 1: you know, the domestic comedy template that is, you know, 366 00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:56,320 Speaker 1: that is at this point pretty well worn without some 367 00:22:56,440 --> 00:22:59,720 Speaker 1: kind of element like an immigrant experience or something to 368 00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:01,600 Speaker 1: kind make it, to make it stand out. One of 369 00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:03,040 Speaker 1: the things Chuck, I know you've done in the last 370 00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:04,679 Speaker 1: couple of years is you've made a point of working 371 00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:06,920 Speaker 1: with you know, you have quite a team of writers, 372 00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:09,679 Speaker 1: and working with younger writers help you the benefit of 373 00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:12,560 Speaker 1: your many years in television to help younger writers come aboard. 374 00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:14,800 Speaker 1: What are you finding in terms of the types of 375 00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:18,040 Speaker 1: people that are drawn to television writing and particularly comedy 376 00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:21,359 Speaker 1: writing these days. Is there anything anything that you notice 377 00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:23,560 Speaker 1: in kind of the younger generation coming up that you're 378 00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:26,720 Speaker 1: working with in terms of their interests, there's their tools, 379 00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:36,280 Speaker 1: their training. As a group, comedy writers are broken, and 380 00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:43,320 Speaker 1: um why we need agents because otherwise we'd represent ourselves. 381 00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:48,960 Speaker 1: We'd be crying all the time. But you know, from 382 00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:53,560 Speaker 1: you know, from various stages of dysfunction and darkness, you 383 00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:58,680 Speaker 1: can either become a bitter you know, bitter son of 384 00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:04,680 Speaker 1: a bit, or or right about mass murder or yes 385 00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:08,080 Speaker 1: and there is or you channeled it into into into 386 00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:12,320 Speaker 1: laughing at at at whatever it is. Um, you know, 387 00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:15,119 Speaker 1: and if you had a wonderful childhood. You know, you 388 00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:19,639 Speaker 1: become a network executive, so you know, and that's fine, 389 00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:24,840 Speaker 1: it's fine, it's terrific. There's a comedy writer gene. I 390 00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:27,480 Speaker 1: think it's I think it's a broken chromosome. And I 391 00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:30,280 Speaker 1: don't know if it's a gene. But but you know, 392 00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:34,280 Speaker 1: as as a group, I kind of noticed that that 393 00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:38,120 Speaker 1: that that that hurt turns into comedy for certain kinds 394 00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:40,680 Speaker 1: of people, you know, and uh, and it could be 395 00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:43,680 Speaker 1: mean comedy, you know, it could be striking back coming, 396 00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:48,000 Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, And you know, I've always thought, after 397 00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:51,320 Speaker 1: having done this a while, that the first two places 398 00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:54,600 Speaker 1: a comedy writer goes is mean and stupid, you know, 399 00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:59,560 Speaker 1: and they're both work. They're both really fertile areas for 400 00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:03,720 Speaker 1: comed But you can go further. You don't have to 401 00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:08,000 Speaker 1: stop there. You know, Comedy can come from compassion misplaced 402 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:12,200 Speaker 1: compassion can be as funny as just people tearing each 403 00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:15,679 Speaker 1: other apart. So you know, there are other colors on 404 00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:20,480 Speaker 1: the palette other than uh, you know, um, insult comedy 405 00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:24,000 Speaker 1: and uh and uh, you know, look how stupid these 406 00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:28,400 Speaker 1: people are, which is the Harvard approach from the lampoon 407 00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:32,560 Speaker 1: the lamp Look how stupid all these people are. Ha ha, 408 00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:35,520 Speaker 1: Well that's quite a segue to my to my last 409 00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:37,960 Speaker 1: question for you, which you hinted at. Let me ask 410 00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:40,200 Speaker 1: you there is right now. There's a little off the topic, 411 00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:44,600 Speaker 1: but um, right now the creative community is is in 412 00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:48,399 Speaker 1: some turmoil because of the situation you referenced. Writers. The 413 00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:50,600 Speaker 1: Writer's Guild of America isn't A is in a very 414 00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:54,200 Speaker 1: big dispute right now with the industry's largest talent agencies 415 00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:58,920 Speaker 1: about issues related to packaging, which is way too long 416 00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:02,199 Speaker 1: for me to explain here, packaging and production entities. A 417 00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:05,040 Speaker 1: lot of the agencies are getting bigger and have production 418 00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:07,560 Speaker 1: arms and that's been a real concern in terms of 419 00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:10,119 Speaker 1: conflicts of interest. Can I ask you where you stand this? 420 00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:13,639 Speaker 1: This dispute is going on nine ten months. Do you 421 00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:17,040 Speaker 1: think that the sides need to do more talking? Where 422 00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:18,480 Speaker 1: do you What do you think about this? And do 423 00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:24,160 Speaker 1: you think it's affecting things? Um, it hasn't impacted on 424 00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:29,680 Speaker 1: us because we've kind of a self contained a little environment. 425 00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:34,960 Speaker 1: When Big Bang wrapped last spring, almost the entire writing 426 00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:37,760 Speaker 1: staff moved over to Young Sheldon. You know, so we 427 00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:41,280 Speaker 1: weren't out shopping and you've been based at Warner Brothers 428 00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:43,879 Speaker 1: for many years. You're you're part of them and the 429 00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:47,200 Speaker 1: family there. And I'm working with writers that we've worked 430 00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:52,840 Speaker 1: together for decades. I mean there's people on on on 431 00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:56,560 Speaker 1: the show's camera people and and crew people go back 432 00:26:56,560 --> 00:27:01,600 Speaker 1: to Rosanne and two you too. So there's a long 433 00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:06,320 Speaker 1: relationships and and they're they're worth cherishing because it it 434 00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:11,720 Speaker 1: creates a really is a shorthand. You know, we were 435 00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:13,920 Speaker 1: all on the same page trying to get something done. 436 00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:17,960 Speaker 1: I don't know that I can speak to the larger 437 00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:23,640 Speaker 1: issue about agencies and packaging. Um, I didn't understand any 438 00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:25,760 Speaker 1: of this when I was coming up. I found out 439 00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:31,320 Speaker 1: about my show's big package years after I should have known. 440 00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:36,360 Speaker 1: I just didn't know. Um, it was kind of stealthy. Oh, 441 00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:40,320 Speaker 1: by the way, you know, um, and uh you know. 442 00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:45,760 Speaker 1: I mean over time, I've been able to say, uh, no, no, 443 00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:49,920 Speaker 1: you don't get a package because you've got a story 444 00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:55,760 Speaker 1: editor on the show. No, the package is credible if 445 00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:58,840 Speaker 1: you put together all these elements and made this thing happen. 446 00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:02,320 Speaker 1: But generally that's not what happens. It's it's a it's 447 00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:05,720 Speaker 1: kind of a form of extortion. Um. Oh, I should 448 00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:09,880 Speaker 1: have said that, you mean, it is the nicest way. 449 00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:14,920 Speaker 1: Let's call it a tithe or if you just watch 450 00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:18,960 Speaker 1: the Irishman the vig you know, um, you know it's 451 00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:24,000 Speaker 1: the troll at the bridge saying pay me to cross. Um, 452 00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:32,560 Speaker 1: that's wrong too, absolutely, I'm really it's really simple to me. 453 00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:35,840 Speaker 1: You want to put the money on the screen. If 454 00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:38,760 Speaker 1: people are getting paid to do nothing, that doesn't make 455 00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:42,360 Speaker 1: a better show, you know. So if people are doing 456 00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:48,160 Speaker 1: something and contributing, sure, sure, you know, step up to 457 00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:54,440 Speaker 1: the buffet, you know, have some shrimp. Um. But there 458 00:28:54,440 --> 00:29:02,080 Speaker 1: has been traditionally in this business of people grabbing up 459 00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:04,720 Speaker 1: some many hands in the many hands in the and 460 00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:07,920 Speaker 1: and sometimes it's credible, and it's and it's legitimate, and 461 00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:12,760 Speaker 1: sometimes it's just greed. But all right, show me a 462 00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:16,120 Speaker 1: business that doesn't have some element of that, because I'm 463 00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:18,640 Speaker 1: not aware of it. That is true. That is true. 464 00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:21,240 Speaker 1: Well one of one of many issues that this industry 465 00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:23,200 Speaker 1: is gonna probably gonna have to sort out in the 466 00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:25,840 Speaker 1: next year. Chuck, I have overstayed our time. Thank you 467 00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:29,320 Speaker 1: so much for thank you coming and much that's today. 468 00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:35,480 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. Be sure to tune in next week 469 00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:37,560 Speaker 1: for another episode of strictly business