WEBVTT - Beheaded II (From the Archive)

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Noble Blood, a production of iHeartRadio and Grim

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<v Speaker 1>and Mild from Aaron Mankie. Listener discretion advised Danish Sports Here.

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<v Speaker 1>I am still on maternity leave and so we're continuing

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<v Speaker 1>the archival series on the six Wives of Henry the Eighth.

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<v Speaker 1>Today's episode is focused on Katherine Howard, the teenager that

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<v Speaker 1>King Henry the Eighth fell in love with, who ultimately

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<v Speaker 1>spoiler alert, lost her head. But was she actually guilty

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<v Speaker 1>of what the king accused her of enjoy.

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<v Speaker 2>On November eighth, fifteen forty one, Queen Katherine Howard was

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<v Speaker 2>brought to a small room to sit opposite Thomas Cranmer,

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<v Speaker 2>Archbishop of Canterbury. The archbishop had assured King Henry the

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<v Speaker 2>Eighth a few days prior that his interrogation would be

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<v Speaker 2>harsh and merciless, that he would import on the King's

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<v Speaker 2>young bride the severity of her crimes and scare her

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<v Speaker 2>into full honesty. But when Cranmer saw the young girl,

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<v Speaker 2>he felt his resolve drain away. She was weeping, already

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<v Speaker 2>frantic with grief and terror, her bloodshot eyes darting around

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<v Speaker 2>the room as if an executioner's blade could appear at

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<v Speaker 2>any moment. But she also looked so small, so young.

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<v Speaker 2>She was a nineteen year old girl, and she was

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<v Speaker 2>in a chair that looked far too big for her.

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<v Speaker 2>Cranmer really had all the information already that his investigation

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<v Speaker 2>really needed. Only two weeks ago, the allegations had just

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<v Speaker 2>been a rumor, a single rumor from a single source.

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<v Speaker 2>The claim was this that the new Queen had been

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<v Speaker 2>less than virginal when she had married the king. Some

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<v Speaker 2>one had informed the archbishop that in Catherine's home growing up,

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<v Speaker 2>she had not one but two affairs, first with her

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<v Speaker 2>music teacher and then with her grandmother's secretary. Did you

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<v Speaker 2>or did you not? Cranmar began as soon as Catherine

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<v Speaker 2>had caught her breath, have a sexual relationship with your

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<v Speaker 2>music teacher, Henry Mannox when you were living with your grandmother,

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<v Speaker 2>the dowager Duchess in Lambeth. Katherine wailed, no, sir, it

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<v Speaker 2>was a flirtation, that's all. He never knew me in

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<v Speaker 2>the way a husband knows his wife. I have only

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<v Speaker 2>ever been true to King Henry. And what of a secretary.

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<v Speaker 2>Some time later, a man named Francis Diurham. Did you

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<v Speaker 2>know him intimately? Catherine's breath began to quicken erratically. Cranmer

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<v Speaker 2>noticed her cheeks and dressed sleeves were both wet with tears.

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<v Speaker 2>Be honest, child, Cranmar said, The Lord is merciful to

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<v Speaker 2>those who are honest. As almost an afterthought, he added,

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<v Speaker 2>I have already spoken to both men. Catherine didn't respond,

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<v Speaker 2>and Cranmar continued, you and Dearham called each other husband

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<v Speaker 2>and wife? Did you not? Catherine nodded, Were you formally

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<v Speaker 2>bound to Denham? The archbishop continued, still unable to quite

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<v Speaker 2>locate the harsh tone that he had rehearsed. Did you

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<v Speaker 2>lie with him? Once more? Catherine nodded her head. We

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<v Speaker 2>did lie together two or three times in my bed

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<v Speaker 2>in the maiden's chamber when I lived in Lambeth. But

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<v Speaker 2>I never betrayed King Henry. I never betrayed my husband

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<v Speaker 2>or sinned against him in any way. But she had

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<v Speaker 2>already said enough. She had betrayed the king, betrayed him

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<v Speaker 2>by pretending to be a virgin in a lie by omission,

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<v Speaker 2>humiliated the king by now letting the whole world know

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<v Speaker 2>that he had been fooled by a teenager. Catherine broke

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<v Speaker 2>down in sobs. As he left, the archbishop quietly whispered

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<v Speaker 2>to the guards that they should remove any items from

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<v Speaker 2>her chamber that might allow her to commit suicide. Catherine

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<v Speaker 2>Howard and King Henry the Eighth had only been married

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<v Speaker 2>about sixteen months, and now with her past revealed, she

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<v Speaker 2>knew that her time as queen was over. With Henry's history,

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<v Speaker 2>she would be lucky to make it out with her

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<v Speaker 2>head for a little while. It seemed as though she might.

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<v Speaker 2>After her interrogation, Catherine was sent away from court to

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<v Speaker 2>Sion Abbey. It seemed as though the King was going

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<v Speaker 2>to show her mercy. Her arrangement with Frantis Dearham could

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<v Speaker 2>technically qualify as a pre contract, would mean her marriage

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<v Speaker 2>to Henry was invalid, getting him off the hook easy.

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<v Speaker 2>Catherine would have to give up her jewels and possessions

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<v Speaker 2>and live in exile, away from court for the rest

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<v Speaker 2>of her life. It looked as though that was what

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<v Speaker 2>was going to happen. It looked that way for exactly

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<v Speaker 2>three days. Three days after Catherine Howard's interrogation, Frantis Dearham revealed,

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<v Speaker 2>under torture something else about Queen Catherine, something that the

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<v Speaker 2>King wouldn't be able to look upon with mercy. From

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<v Speaker 2>that moment, Catherine's fate was sealed. I'm Danish Schwartz and

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<v Speaker 2>this is noble blood. When Katherine Howard, motherless girl, was

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<v Speaker 2>eight years old, she was sent to live at the

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<v Speaker 2>estate of her father's stepmother, her step grandmother, the Dowager

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<v Speaker 2>Duchess of Norfolk. The Dowager Duchess seemed to collect wards.

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<v Speaker 2>She had about a dozen or so girls under her care,

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<v Speaker 2>mostly the daughters of poorer relations, and the idea was

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<v Speaker 2>that under the Dowager Duchess's supervision, the girls would learn

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<v Speaker 2>the skills of court and aristocracy, although in effect supervision

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<v Speaker 2>was a little lax. The year Katherine Howard turned thirteen,

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<v Speaker 2>two major things happened. First, her cousin Anne Boleyn was

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<v Speaker 2>beheaded for adultery during her marriage to King Henry the

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<v Speaker 2>eighth Second, Katherine Howard began a flirtation with her music teacher,

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<v Speaker 2>a man named Henry Mannox, who had been hired to

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<v Speaker 2>teach the girls how to play the Virginals. Mannox was

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<v Speaker 2>exactly the type of man Catherine would fall in love

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<v Speaker 2>with for the rest of her life. He was every

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<v Speaker 2>stereotype of a poetic musician, moody, romantic, wildly passionate. We

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<v Speaker 2>don't know how old Mannix was at the time. He

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<v Speaker 2>could have been a teenager himself somewhere around nineteen, or

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<v Speaker 2>he could have been approaching forty. Either way, it was

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<v Speaker 2>not a relationship that an extremely young aristocratic woman should

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<v Speaker 2>have been engaged in, especially not in a world in

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<v Speaker 2>which a woman's sexual purity was her primary currency. Catherine,

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<v Speaker 2>for her part, refused to let Mannox go all the way.

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<v Speaker 2>The relationship occurred mainly in the hiding spots around the

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<v Speaker 2>estate grounds, where they could kiss each other and whisper

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<v Speaker 2>words of love into each other's ears. That's where the

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<v Speaker 2>Dowager Duchess found them kissing in an alcove near the chapel.

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<v Speaker 2>The Dowager Duchess slapped Catherine twice and forbade the couple

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<v Speaker 2>from ever seeing each other again. The warning didn't deter

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<v Speaker 2>the pair. I don't know why you're still seeing her,

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<v Speaker 2>said Mary Lassal's one day to Mannox. Mary Lassles was

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<v Speaker 2>another young woman under the Dowager Duchess's lack supervision, but

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<v Speaker 2>lower ranked than Katherine, and so she felt a sort

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<v Speaker 2>of kinship with Mannox, who was more or less a servant.

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<v Speaker 2>She's much too high born for you, Mary said, she's

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<v Speaker 2>never going to marry you. You know that right. Mannox

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<v Speaker 2>sneered and curled his lip. He took a step closer

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<v Speaker 2>to Mary Lassal's and told her that he already knew

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<v Speaker 2>Catherine Howard by her private parts. And he said, she's

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<v Speaker 2>already promised her maiden had to me. From Mary Lassal's

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<v Speaker 2>word got around and back to Catherine Howard what Mannix

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<v Speaker 2>had said. She ended their relationship. The next day in

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<v Speaker 2>the estate's orchard. Mannix pleaded that he was just so

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<v Speaker 2>far in love with her that he didn't know what

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<v Speaker 2>he said, but Catherine didn't care. Besides, Mary Lassell's had

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<v Speaker 2>been right. She was too high born for him. That's

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<v Speaker 2>why teenage Catherine felt as though she was a much

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<v Speaker 2>better fit for Francis Dearham, the Dowager Duchess's secretary. Durham

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<v Speaker 2>already had a reputation and seduced a good percentage of

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<v Speaker 2>the women at the estate, including Catherine's own secretary. In fact,

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<v Speaker 2>it was she who recommended Dearham to Catherine, praising him

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<v Speaker 2>so highly that Catherine couldn't help but be intrigued. It

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<v Speaker 2>was the type of whirlwind passion that only a teenager

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<v Speaker 2>can have. Within months, they were calling each other husband

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<v Speaker 2>and wife, planning for an imaginary future together. They sent

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<v Speaker 2>each other gifts and wrote each other letters. Katherine, still

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<v Speaker 2>under her grandmother's custody, didn't have the income to buy

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<v Speaker 2>the dresses she wanted, and so Dearham bought her beautiful

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<v Speaker 2>fabric and taught her which dressmaker to go to. I'll

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<v Speaker 2>pay you back, I promise, Catherine said. Durham just smiled.

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<v Speaker 2>Though the girls at the dowager Duchess's estate slept in

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<v Speaker 2>a single room, the maiden's chamber, and though the girls

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<v Speaker 2>usually slept to a bed, there were still ways for

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<v Speaker 2>girls to entertain male visitors. The maiden's chamber was locked

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<v Speaker 2>every night, to preserve the girl's virtue, of course, but

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<v Speaker 2>Catherine had an answer for that. While her friends giggled

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<v Speaker 2>and encouraged her, Catherine snuck into the dowager Duchess's chamber

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<v Speaker 2>while her stepgrandmother was sleeping and stole the key, quickly

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<v Speaker 2>making a copy and replacing it. Men snuck into the room.

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<v Speaker 2>Then Katherine wasn't the only one of the Wards who

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<v Speaker 2>had an illicit boyfriend. The men brought with them wine, strawberries,

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<v Speaker 2>and d apples, and the boys and girls would laugh

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<v Speaker 2>and talk or sneak off to beds together until one

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<v Speaker 2>or two in the morning. We can be almost certain

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<v Speaker 2>that Dearham and Katherine, who by this point had been

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<v Speaker 2>spending every moment together, were having sex. Durham privately assured

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<v Speaker 2>his friends that he knew enough to ensure that Katherine

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<v Speaker 2>wouldn't get pregnant. Meanwhile, Mannox, bitter music teacher, was furious

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<v Speaker 2>at Katherine and her new paramore. In his neatest script,

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<v Speaker 2>he wrote a letter to the Dowager Duchess informing her

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<v Speaker 2>that if she were to come to the Maiden's chamber

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<v Speaker 2>an hour or so after she normally went to bed,

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<v Speaker 2>she would see something she wouldn't like very much, involving

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<v Speaker 2>a certain one of her secretaries. Mannix anonymously left the

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<v Speaker 2>note in the Dowager Duchess's pew in the chapel so

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<v Speaker 2>she would find it. That night, she stormed into the

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<v Speaker 2>Maiden's chamber to catch not Catherine and Dearham, but a

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<v Speaker 2>man named Hastings, another one of her secretaries, who had

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<v Speaker 2>already been caught once flirting with one of the other girls.

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<v Speaker 2>Catherine was in the clear, but Catherine knew who the

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<v Speaker 2>note had been written by, and she knew that it

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<v Speaker 2>had been intended for her, and Dearham agreed. Puffing out

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<v Speaker 2>his chest. Dearham confronted Mannox, telling him that his behavior

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<v Speaker 2>made it appear as though he'd never loved Catherine at all.

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<v Speaker 2>Mannox called him a cab. Two jealous men dressing each

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<v Speaker 2>other down over their secret love affair. It was like

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<v Speaker 2>a scene from Gossip Girl, half a millennium before its time.

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<v Speaker 2>People knew that Dearham and Catherine were having an affair

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<v Speaker 2>people other than the Dowager Duchess. But people also liked Catherine.

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<v Speaker 2>She was vivacious and funny and entertaining. Plus she was

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<v Speaker 2>high ranking. They had no reason to rat her out

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<v Speaker 2>or risk incurring the wrath of her grandmother for being

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<v Speaker 2>the ones to deliver the bad news. But like almost

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<v Speaker 2>all wildly passionate love affairs, the one between Dearham and

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<v Speaker 2>Catherine became less exciting. Catherine stopped being entranced by Dearham

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<v Speaker 2>when she was presented with a new gilded opportunity. Her

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<v Speaker 2>family connections had secured her a position as a lady

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<v Speaker 2>in waiting for the new Queen Anne of Cleaves, who

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<v Speaker 2>would be arriving to England later that fall. In the

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<v Speaker 2>same apple orchard where she had broken up with Mannix,

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<v Speaker 2>Katherine Howard told Dearham that she was leaving. His version

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<v Speaker 2>of the story involves her weeping with sorrow. Her version

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<v Speaker 2>is her losing her temper at his insistence that they

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<v Speaker 2>stay together. It's possible both occurred. She cried, and she

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<v Speaker 2>lost her temper, and she left Dearham, thinking that there

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<v Speaker 2>was still a chance they were going to end up together.

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<v Speaker 2>But there wasn't. She was just going. Catherine had grown

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<v Speaker 2>up thinking her house in Lambeth was grand. She had

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<v Speaker 2>no idea what would await her at the court of

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<v Speaker 2>Henry the Eighth. So many people, so many dances, so

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<v Speaker 2>much food, so much to learn for the confident girl

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<v Speaker 2>who had only ever been the queen Bee of the

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<v Speaker 2>band of teenagers in the maidens Chamber. She was paid

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<v Speaker 2>ten pounds a year. With her first paycheck, she sent

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<v Speaker 2>money back to Dearham to repay him for the fabric

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<v Speaker 2>he had bought her. The new Queen of England, Anne

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<v Speaker 2>of Cleaves wasn't set to arrive for another few months.

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<v Speaker 2>In the meantime, the new ladies got to know each

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<v Speaker 2>other and got to know the men of court. For Katherine,

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<v Speaker 2>that meant being instantly drawn to a gentleman named Thomas Culpeper.

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<v Speaker 2>Culpeper was tall and athletic, the type of man that

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<v Speaker 2>Henry kept around him because he made him feel young again. Culpeper,

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<v Speaker 2>for his part, had an incredibly checkered past. There was

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<v Speaker 2>a rumor about him being convicted of raping a woman

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<v Speaker 2>in the village and murdering a villager who saw them,

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<v Speaker 2>only to get off without consequences with a royal pardon.

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<v Speaker 2>Catherine knew none of that. She only saw the handsome,

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<v Speaker 2>charismatic man that women seemed to gravitate towards, like hummingbirds

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<v Speaker 2>to a flower, and Culpeper saw Katherine a stunningly gorgeous

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<v Speaker 2>girl of sixteen. Every contemporary description of Catherine Howard has

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<v Speaker 2>that in common, the understanding that Catherine was uniquely pretty.

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<v Speaker 2>For a few weeks, Culpeper and Catherine engaged in a

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<v Speaker 2>typical court flirtation. Catherine would report back to her fellow

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<v Speaker 2>ladies in waiting, giggling helping to decipher everything that Culpeper

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<v Speaker 2>had said to her that day. Catherine knew that her

0:16:20.600 --> 0:16:23.680
<v Speaker 2>virtue at court would be essential in ensuring that she

0:16:23.800 --> 0:16:28.040
<v Speaker 2>make an advantageous marriage, and so when Culpeper started making

0:16:28.560 --> 0:16:32.880
<v Speaker 2>sexual overtures expecting her to come to bed, she declined,

0:16:33.480 --> 0:16:37.360
<v Speaker 2>even as he professed his courtly love. If he loved her,

0:16:37.520 --> 0:16:42.480
<v Speaker 2>Catherine believed he would understand, but Culpeper wasn't a man

0:16:42.560 --> 0:16:48.080
<v Speaker 2>accustomed to sexual rejection or even delay. With Catherine's refusal,

0:16:48.640 --> 0:16:51.640
<v Speaker 2>he shrugged and set his sights upon a new girl.

0:16:52.640 --> 0:16:56.840
<v Speaker 2>It was Catherine Howard's first time getting her heart broken.

0:16:57.840 --> 0:17:01.120
<v Speaker 2>The other ladies in waiting saw her her spend days

0:17:01.160 --> 0:17:08.679
<v Speaker 2>crying and ripping up his letters. Luckily, Catherine wouldn't have

0:17:08.760 --> 0:17:13.320
<v Speaker 2>to wallow too long in heartbreak. Almost immediately after Anne

0:17:13.320 --> 0:17:16.919
<v Speaker 2>of Cleaves arrived in England, Henry the eighth decided that

0:17:17.000 --> 0:17:19.679
<v Speaker 2>he didn't care for her and set about trying to

0:17:19.800 --> 0:17:24.359
<v Speaker 2>arrange an end to their arranged marriage. In the meantime,

0:17:24.760 --> 0:17:28.280
<v Speaker 2>the king began doting on his new brides, very pretty,

0:17:28.760 --> 0:17:33.920
<v Speaker 2>very young lady in waiting Katherine Howard. He sent gifts

0:17:34.080 --> 0:17:38.120
<v Speaker 2>and gave her land. Everyone saw, including Anne, of Cleaves,

0:17:38.560 --> 0:17:42.080
<v Speaker 2>but she hoped it was just an affair. It wasn't.

0:17:42.720 --> 0:17:45.680
<v Speaker 2>Henry secured the annulment from Anne of Cleaves within a

0:17:45.720 --> 0:17:50.720
<v Speaker 2>few months and married Catherine Howard so quickly afterward that

0:17:50.800 --> 0:17:55.359
<v Speaker 2>people assumed that she must be secretly pregnant. In fact,

0:17:55.600 --> 0:17:59.280
<v Speaker 2>Henry was just absolutely besought it with his new bride,

0:17:59.640 --> 0:18:04.240
<v Speaker 2>who was just sixteen or seventeen years old. Henry was fifty.

0:18:05.400 --> 0:18:09.480
<v Speaker 2>They were married the very same day that Henry's former minister,

0:18:09.880 --> 0:18:14.879
<v Speaker 2>Thomas Cromwell was executed for securing the disastrous marriage to

0:18:14.920 --> 0:18:23.920
<v Speaker 2>Anne of Cleves. The middle aged Henry was so amorous

0:18:23.960 --> 0:18:27.320
<v Speaker 2>to Catherine Howard that it almost embarrassed the rest of court.

0:18:28.160 --> 0:18:30.440
<v Speaker 2>He didn't take his hands off of her in public,

0:18:31.320 --> 0:18:35.399
<v Speaker 2>caressing her almost constantly, to the point where ambassadors noted

0:18:35.520 --> 0:18:39.160
<v Speaker 2>that he had never been this publicly affectionate with any

0:18:39.240 --> 0:18:43.640
<v Speaker 2>of his wives to this extent before. Of course, Henry

0:18:43.680 --> 0:18:46.199
<v Speaker 2>believed that his young bride was a virgin and that

0:18:46.280 --> 0:18:48.640
<v Speaker 2>he was the only man she had ever laid with.

0:18:49.840 --> 0:18:53.240
<v Speaker 2>Catherine was so young and so beautiful that she made

0:18:53.240 --> 0:18:55.560
<v Speaker 2>Henry feel as though he were back in his prime,

0:18:56.240 --> 0:18:59.480
<v Speaker 2>even as it became exceedingly obvious that he was not

0:19:00.520 --> 0:19:04.000
<v Speaker 2>pain in his legs from his long troublesome ulcers kept

0:19:04.040 --> 0:19:08.520
<v Speaker 2>getting worse. Henry had difficulty with impotence in the bedroom,

0:19:09.119 --> 0:19:12.960
<v Speaker 2>even as he made his attraction to Catherine increasingly obvious

0:19:13.119 --> 0:19:17.880
<v Speaker 2>outside the bedroom. Henry's doctors advised him to spend time

0:19:17.920 --> 0:19:20.920
<v Speaker 2>away from his new bride so that he could recuperate.

0:19:22.080 --> 0:19:24.119
<v Speaker 2>In the meantime, they put him on a weight loss

0:19:24.119 --> 0:19:28.600
<v Speaker 2>regimen and wrapped his injured leg in boiled olive leaves

0:19:28.640 --> 0:19:34.840
<v Speaker 2>and mirth. Henry's ill health and generally mercurial nature, combined

0:19:34.840 --> 0:19:38.240
<v Speaker 2>with his shame at his inability to perform in the bedroom,

0:19:38.920 --> 0:19:43.199
<v Speaker 2>meant that he spent most nights away from Catherine. A

0:19:43.320 --> 0:19:46.800
<v Speaker 2>year into their marriage, Catherine had no pregnancy to show

0:19:46.880 --> 0:19:50.560
<v Speaker 2>for it. Catherine knew full well what happened to queens

0:19:50.640 --> 0:19:55.119
<v Speaker 2>who didn't give Henry sons. As her relationship with the

0:19:55.200 --> 0:19:59.720
<v Speaker 2>king continued to strain, Catherine began to shut herself away,

0:20:00.200 --> 0:20:05.199
<v Speaker 2>unhappy and anxious, refusing to go to dances. Uncertain of

0:20:05.240 --> 0:20:10.520
<v Speaker 2>her future position. That summer, strain or not, Catherine was

0:20:10.560 --> 0:20:14.719
<v Speaker 2>to accompany Henry on the Northern Progress, a show of

0:20:14.840 --> 0:20:20.119
<v Speaker 2>force and majesty to the rebellious northern parts of the country. Catherine,

0:20:20.240 --> 0:20:23.520
<v Speaker 2>as the beautiful young Queen, was an essential prop for

0:20:23.560 --> 0:20:26.520
<v Speaker 2>the outing, to make Henry look all the more vital

0:20:26.560 --> 0:20:30.600
<v Speaker 2>and powerful with her at his side. But Catherine took

0:20:30.640 --> 0:20:34.040
<v Speaker 2>ill on the journey, spending days and nights alone in

0:20:34.080 --> 0:20:37.600
<v Speaker 2>her room. When the King sent a servant to her

0:20:37.680 --> 0:20:42.120
<v Speaker 2>chamber one night, he found it bolted. The queen's ladies

0:20:42.200 --> 0:20:46.239
<v Speaker 2>fretted about her listlessness, but they also whispered about the

0:20:46.240 --> 0:20:50.320
<v Speaker 2>way she gazed down from her window at Thomas Culpeper,

0:20:51.000 --> 0:20:54.960
<v Speaker 2>the young handsome man in the King's entourage, who had

0:20:55.000 --> 0:20:57.600
<v Speaker 2>caught her eye from the moment that she had arrived

0:20:57.600 --> 0:21:01.120
<v Speaker 2>at court. The way she looked at him with her

0:21:01.160 --> 0:21:04.760
<v Speaker 2>hand cupped in her palm, it was almost like love.

0:21:06.600 --> 0:21:08.720
<v Speaker 2>When the trip to the north of the country ended

0:21:08.760 --> 0:21:11.919
<v Speaker 2>and they all returned to Hampton Court on October twenty ninth,

0:21:12.359 --> 0:21:15.359
<v Speaker 2>Henry gave a speech giving hearty thanks for his good

0:21:15.400 --> 0:21:19.000
<v Speaker 2>life with Catherine and his trust in their happy future together.

0:21:20.520 --> 0:21:28.040
<v Speaker 2>The very next day everything would fall apart. Do you

0:21:28.160 --> 0:21:32.679
<v Speaker 2>remember Mary Lassal's the girl from Catherine's time with the

0:21:32.720 --> 0:21:38.639
<v Speaker 2>Dowager Duchess Away from court. Mary Lassell's brother John was

0:21:38.720 --> 0:21:42.080
<v Speaker 2>reprimanding her for not being able to secure a position

0:21:42.520 --> 0:21:46.520
<v Speaker 2>in the new queen's household. Didn't you two know each other?

0:21:46.760 --> 0:21:52.760
<v Speaker 2>John scoffed at her. Mary Lassal's bristled at her brother's derision. Yes,

0:21:52.960 --> 0:21:55.639
<v Speaker 2>I knew her. I wouldn't even want to be in

0:21:55.720 --> 0:21:59.160
<v Speaker 2>that household under a queen like her. I remember how

0:21:59.160 --> 0:22:02.359
<v Speaker 2>she behaved back when she was in the Lambeth. John

0:22:02.440 --> 0:22:08.280
<v Speaker 2>paused and asked for more details. Mary Lassal's told him

0:22:08.359 --> 0:22:13.080
<v Speaker 2>about Henry Mannox and Francis Dearhan. Everybody knows the queen

0:22:13.200 --> 0:22:16.240
<v Speaker 2>wasn't so pure when she married the king, Mary said.

0:22:17.320 --> 0:22:21.080
<v Speaker 2>John stopped in his tracks and demanded that Mary tell

0:22:21.200 --> 0:22:26.560
<v Speaker 2>him everything she knew, and John Lassal's, a devout Protestant reformer,

0:22:27.320 --> 0:22:32.639
<v Speaker 2>went to tell the Archbishop, Thomas Cranmer. Cranmer was in

0:22:32.680 --> 0:22:37.040
<v Speaker 2>a delicate position. On one hand, this was just a rumor,

0:22:37.160 --> 0:22:40.119
<v Speaker 2>and he didn't want to incur Henry's wrath over nothing.

0:22:41.080 --> 0:22:44.360
<v Speaker 2>But on the other hand, if he didn't tell Henry

0:22:44.640 --> 0:22:49.040
<v Speaker 2>and somehow word got out, he would be responsible. And

0:22:49.119 --> 0:22:55.120
<v Speaker 2>so on November two, in incredibly measured words, Cranmer put

0:22:55.160 --> 0:22:59.120
<v Speaker 2>the delicate claims in writing in a letter and left

0:22:59.200 --> 0:23:05.360
<v Speaker 2>it on Henry's seat in chapel. Henry was, of course outraged.

0:23:06.160 --> 0:23:09.479
<v Speaker 2>He didn't believe the rumors for a moment, but still

0:23:09.640 --> 0:23:15.080
<v Speaker 2>he demanded a full investigation. Mannix and Dereham both confessed.

0:23:16.640 --> 0:23:21.360
<v Speaker 2>On November sixth, Without telling Catherine, Howard Henry the Eighth

0:23:21.440 --> 0:23:25.600
<v Speaker 2>left Hampton Court and rode to Greenwich. She would never

0:23:25.640 --> 0:23:29.199
<v Speaker 2>see him again. Once Henry was done with a wife,

0:23:29.600 --> 0:23:37.119
<v Speaker 2>he wanted her out of sight. At Greenwich, Henry held

0:23:37.160 --> 0:23:40.800
<v Speaker 2>a midnight meeting that lasted for six hours, in which

0:23:40.840 --> 0:23:45.800
<v Speaker 2>he and his ministers decided what to do. At one point,

0:23:45.840 --> 0:23:49.680
<v Speaker 2>Henry broke down in tears. Why have I had such

0:23:49.760 --> 0:23:53.600
<v Speaker 2>bad luck in meeting these ill conditioned women, he cried.

0:23:54.680 --> 0:23:57.560
<v Speaker 2>He grabbed a sword. Maybe I should just go and

0:23:57.640 --> 0:24:00.800
<v Speaker 2>kill her myself. However much play measure she had in

0:24:00.840 --> 0:24:03.160
<v Speaker 2>her sins, it won't be half as much as her

0:24:03.200 --> 0:24:08.080
<v Speaker 2>torture in death. Henry's men subdued him. He really had

0:24:08.119 --> 0:24:13.760
<v Speaker 2>been in love, he thought, with his beautiful young fifth wife.

0:24:14.160 --> 0:24:18.320
<v Speaker 2>The next day, Catherine knew something was a mess. No

0:24:18.359 --> 0:24:22.000
<v Speaker 2>one had told her anything. The investigation had been completely secret,

0:24:22.720 --> 0:24:25.520
<v Speaker 2>but Henry was gone and had left no word about

0:24:25.520 --> 0:24:29.520
<v Speaker 2>where he was. She could sense something in the air.

0:24:30.600 --> 0:24:34.680
<v Speaker 2>When her musicians started to play, she silenced them. It's

0:24:34.720 --> 0:24:39.159
<v Speaker 2>no time for dancing, she said. That night she was

0:24:39.200 --> 0:24:44.840
<v Speaker 2>brought before Thomas Grandmar where she confessed. Henry showed mercy

0:24:44.960 --> 0:24:48.160
<v Speaker 2>enough that Catherine should be spared death and a real

0:24:48.200 --> 0:24:52.639
<v Speaker 2>imprisonment in favor of a life of exile at Cyan House.

0:24:53.760 --> 0:24:59.720
<v Speaker 2>But then, on November eleventh, under torture, Francis Dieham said

0:24:59.720 --> 0:25:03.919
<v Speaker 2>something knew. No, he promised he had never slept with

0:25:03.960 --> 0:25:06.600
<v Speaker 2>the Queen while she was married to the king, but

0:25:06.680 --> 0:25:12.840
<v Speaker 2>everyone knew Thomas Culpeper did. Now there is no part

0:25:12.920 --> 0:25:17.399
<v Speaker 2>evidence to prove that Thomas Culpeper and Catherine actually slept together.

0:25:18.440 --> 0:25:22.720
<v Speaker 2>She went to the grave denying it, but soon details

0:25:22.800 --> 0:25:28.040
<v Speaker 2>began to emerge. In the spring after her wedding, feeling

0:25:28.240 --> 0:25:32.600
<v Speaker 2>distant from Henry and lonely at court, Catherine and Thomas

0:25:32.680 --> 0:25:38.400
<v Speaker 2>began exchanging love letters. They sent little gifts back and forth.

0:25:39.240 --> 0:25:45.000
<v Speaker 2>Their letters became more and more emotional and personal. I

0:25:45.160 --> 0:25:47.919
<v Speaker 2>trust in you that you will always be as you

0:25:48.000 --> 0:25:53.080
<v Speaker 2>have promised me, Catherine wrote. She signed the letter yours

0:25:53.160 --> 0:25:57.959
<v Speaker 2>as long as life endures, and that summer Culpeper had

0:25:58.000 --> 0:26:01.240
<v Speaker 2>been in the large group of courtiers accompanied Henry and

0:26:01.359 --> 0:26:06.040
<v Speaker 2>Catherine on the northern progress. Had she really been sick

0:26:06.440 --> 0:26:10.640
<v Speaker 2>when she insisted on staying alone in her room? Ladies

0:26:10.680 --> 0:26:16.360
<v Speaker 2>were interrogated. Jane Rockford confessed that at one of the stops,

0:26:17.040 --> 0:26:22.600
<v Speaker 2>Culpeper used a secret door that led up backstairs directly

0:26:22.840 --> 0:26:28.080
<v Speaker 2>to Queen Catherine's bedchamber. Other ladies were interrogated about whether

0:26:28.200 --> 0:26:32.760
<v Speaker 2>Katherine and Culpeper were having an affair. I don't know

0:26:32.880 --> 0:26:36.320
<v Speaker 2>for certain, when lady said, I am inclined to believe

0:26:36.400 --> 0:26:43.440
<v Speaker 2>the Queen except accept the Archbishop prompted, except the way

0:26:43.520 --> 0:26:47.239
<v Speaker 2>she looked at Culpeper from her window. I would have

0:26:47.280 --> 0:26:50.480
<v Speaker 2>believed her if I hadn't seen the way she gazed

0:26:50.520 --> 0:26:54.800
<v Speaker 2>at him. Catherine had been in love, and she hadn't

0:26:54.840 --> 0:27:07.560
<v Speaker 2>been able to hide it. Derham was hanged, quartered and disemboweled. Culpepper,

0:27:07.800 --> 0:27:13.520
<v Speaker 2>as a gentleman, was simply beheaded. Meanwhile, Catherine waited at

0:27:13.640 --> 0:27:20.040
<v Speaker 2>Sion House, knowing her fate would be arriving swiftly. In January.

0:27:20.119 --> 0:27:23.000
<v Speaker 2>An act of attainder made it treason for a woman

0:27:23.080 --> 0:27:27.320
<v Speaker 2>to marry the king without plain declaration of having previously

0:27:27.400 --> 0:27:32.000
<v Speaker 2>lived an unchased life. That was it. The final peace

0:27:32.040 --> 0:27:35.320
<v Speaker 2>had been put into place to ensure that Catherine would

0:27:35.400 --> 0:27:39.800
<v Speaker 2>receive the death that Henry wanted for her. Anne Boleyn

0:27:39.960 --> 0:27:42.640
<v Speaker 2>had been taken to the Tower of London under full

0:27:42.760 --> 0:27:46.920
<v Speaker 2>light of day. Katherine had the privilege of arriving at night,

0:27:47.680 --> 0:27:50.280
<v Speaker 2>although when the guards arrived at Sion House to take

0:27:50.320 --> 0:27:53.960
<v Speaker 2>her to the barge, she collapsed in a fit of panic.

0:27:55.160 --> 0:27:58.240
<v Speaker 2>Lucky it was dark during her boat ride down the Thames,

0:27:59.040 --> 0:28:01.760
<v Speaker 2>or else she would have seen the rotting heads of

0:28:01.840 --> 0:28:07.160
<v Speaker 2>Francis Dieham and Thomas Culpeper leering down at her from

0:28:07.200 --> 0:28:12.240
<v Speaker 2>London Bridge. That night, locked in the Tower of London,

0:28:12.560 --> 0:28:16.240
<v Speaker 2>she heard the gates clang shut and the locks on

0:28:16.280 --> 0:28:20.399
<v Speaker 2>the doors turn. She was told that she would be

0:28:20.480 --> 0:28:26.120
<v Speaker 2>killed two days later. After her final confession, Catherine made

0:28:26.119 --> 0:28:31.280
<v Speaker 2>a request that the guard taken aback couldn't refuse. She

0:28:31.480 --> 0:28:34.280
<v Speaker 2>asked for the block that she would be beheaded on

0:28:34.840 --> 0:28:39.360
<v Speaker 2>to be brought to her chamber so that she could practice.

0:28:39.520 --> 0:28:43.600
<v Speaker 2>Catherine wanted to at least die with grace or as

0:28:43.680 --> 0:28:47.680
<v Speaker 2>little humiliation as possible, and she had heard stories of

0:28:47.720 --> 0:28:52.440
<v Speaker 2>botched executions, including the execution of Thomas Cromwell, on which

0:28:52.440 --> 0:28:55.560
<v Speaker 2>it took four or five, even as many as ten

0:28:55.840 --> 0:29:01.160
<v Speaker 2>strokes for the head to fully come off, and so

0:29:01.960 --> 0:29:07.160
<v Speaker 2>for hours. On her last day on earth, Katherine Howard

0:29:07.240 --> 0:29:10.360
<v Speaker 2>kneeled in her cell at the Tower of London and

0:29:10.600 --> 0:29:14.240
<v Speaker 2>raised and lowered her pretty neck on the black block.

0:29:15.840 --> 0:29:19.200
<v Speaker 2>When the time finally came and she was escorted to

0:29:19.280 --> 0:29:22.640
<v Speaker 2>the very spot where her cousin Anne Boleyn had died

0:29:23.000 --> 0:29:27.560
<v Speaker 2>only six years earlier, Catherine knew exactly what to do.

0:29:29.200 --> 0:29:32.479
<v Speaker 2>Though she shook, she lowered her head into the valley

0:29:32.520 --> 0:29:36.880
<v Speaker 2>of the block with well practiced ease, and the executioner

0:29:37.280 --> 0:29:41.400
<v Speaker 2>took her head off with a single blow. She had

0:29:41.440 --> 0:29:45.720
<v Speaker 2>gone from orphan to lady, to queen to dead in

0:29:45.800 --> 0:29:51.720
<v Speaker 2>two years. Catherine Howard hadn't yet reached her twenty first birthday.

0:30:00.160 --> 0:30:04.320
<v Speaker 2>That's the very short, tragic life of Catherine Howard. Stick

0:30:04.360 --> 0:30:06.800
<v Speaker 2>around after a brief sponsor break to hear a little

0:30:06.800 --> 0:30:20.040
<v Speaker 2>bit more about the consequences of the investigation of Catherine's infidelity.

0:30:21.520 --> 0:30:26.720
<v Speaker 2>Dearham Culpepper, Jane Rockford, and of course Katherine lost their

0:30:26.760 --> 0:30:30.440
<v Speaker 2>lives in the aftermath of the investigation of Catherine's affairs,

0:30:31.360 --> 0:30:35.920
<v Speaker 2>but there are two ladies whose fates fascinate me. During

0:30:35.960 --> 0:30:39.920
<v Speaker 2>the course of the investigation, two of Catherine's ladies were

0:30:39.960 --> 0:30:43.920
<v Speaker 2>caught gossiping idly about the king. What kind of man

0:30:44.080 --> 0:30:44.720
<v Speaker 2>is this king?

0:30:44.920 --> 0:30:46.600
<v Speaker 1>I mean, how many wives will he have?

0:30:47.760 --> 0:30:51.920
<v Speaker 2>The two women were jailed for their words, which just

0:30:51.960 --> 0:30:54.920
<v Speaker 2>goes to show if I had been alive in Tutor, England,

0:30:55.320 --> 0:30:58.040
<v Speaker 2>with the way that I talk casually to my friends

0:30:58.080 --> 0:31:01.560
<v Speaker 2>about my research for this podcast, things would not have

0:31:01.680 --> 0:31:05.160
<v Speaker 2>ended well for me. I also want to offer a

0:31:05.240 --> 0:31:09.320
<v Speaker 2>quick note about Catherine Howard's age and her sexual activity.

0:31:10.200 --> 0:31:14.760
<v Speaker 2>It's troubling it isn't quite possible to apply our modern

0:31:14.840 --> 0:31:18.320
<v Speaker 2>understanding of the age of consent onto the behavior of

0:31:18.440 --> 0:31:22.800
<v Speaker 2>historical figures. In the sixteenth century, five hundred years ago,

0:31:23.040 --> 0:31:25.320
<v Speaker 2>a girl was considered a woman as soon as she

0:31:25.360 --> 0:31:29.000
<v Speaker 2>began having her period, and a teenager marrying a man

0:31:29.080 --> 0:31:32.400
<v Speaker 2>twice or even three times her age, far from being

0:31:32.560 --> 0:31:39.440
<v Speaker 2>seen as an active abuse or pedophilia, was unfortunately incredibly common. Still,

0:31:39.800 --> 0:31:43.920
<v Speaker 2>it's important to understand that these are real people, that

0:31:44.040 --> 0:31:48.480
<v Speaker 2>Catherine was a teenager, and her decision making and experiences

0:31:48.520 --> 0:31:53.400
<v Speaker 2>were those of someone incredibly young. Personally, I find it

0:31:53.520 --> 0:31:57.640
<v Speaker 2>most helpful. Not to make broad declarations about Catherine as

0:31:57.680 --> 0:32:01.200
<v Speaker 2>a villain or a victim, but just to do my

0:32:01.360 --> 0:32:05.160
<v Speaker 2>best to try to understand her with the most empathy

0:32:05.320 --> 0:32:06.240
<v Speaker 2>I possibly can.

0:32:11.520 --> 0:32:15.320
<v Speaker 1>Noble Blood is a production of iHeart Radio and Grim

0:32:15.360 --> 0:32:18.920
<v Speaker 1>and Mild from Aaron Mankey. Noble Blood is hosted by

0:32:18.960 --> 0:32:24.520
<v Speaker 1>me Dana Schwartz, with additional writing and research by Hannah Johnston, Hannahswick,

0:32:24.680 --> 0:32:28.800
<v Speaker 1>Courtney Sender, Amy Hit and Julia Milaney. The show is

0:32:28.960 --> 0:32:33.920
<v Speaker 1>edited and produced by Jesse Funk, with supervising producer rima

0:32:34.120 --> 0:32:38.600
<v Speaker 1>Ill Kali and executive producers Aaron Manke, Trevor Young, and

0:32:38.680 --> 0:32:44.200
<v Speaker 1>Matt Frederick. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

0:32:44.480 --> 0:32:49.120
<v Speaker 1>Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.