1
00:00:01,280 --> 00:00:04,600
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your guide to

2
00:00:04,680 --> 00:00:09,360
Speaker 1: the whitetail woods, presented by First Light, creating proven versatile

3
00:00:09,440 --> 00:00:13,400
Speaker 1: hunting apparel for the stand, saddle or blind. First Light

4
00:00:13,880 --> 00:00:19,160
Speaker 1: Go Farther, Stay Longer, and now your host, Mark Kenyon.

5
00:00:19,520 --> 00:00:23,239
Speaker 2: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. This week on

6
00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:26,920
Speaker 2: the show, I'm joined by Nick Pennzoto and Matt Ross

7
00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:30,600
Speaker 2: of the National Deer Association to discuss the state of

8
00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:40,559
Speaker 2: the whitetail Union in twenty twenty five. All right, welcome

9
00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:43,360
Speaker 2: back to the Wired to Hunt podcast, brought to you

10
00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:47,559
Speaker 2: by First Light and their Camo for Conservation initiative, and

11
00:00:47,680 --> 00:00:51,800
Speaker 2: today we are kicking off our Conservation Month. We do

12
00:00:51,880 --> 00:00:56,160
Speaker 2: this every year for about one month worth of episodes.

13
00:00:56,560 --> 00:01:01,360
Speaker 2: We specifically focus on conservation related issue that are relevant

14
00:01:01,520 --> 00:01:05,920
Speaker 2: to deer hunters and outdoors people of all stripes, and

15
00:01:05,959 --> 00:01:08,720
Speaker 2: we're kicking it off here today with another one of

16
00:01:08,760 --> 00:01:11,760
Speaker 2: our annual traditions. I guess you could call it the

17
00:01:11,880 --> 00:01:16,640
Speaker 2: State of the Whitetail Union. I'm joined with representatives from

18
00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:20,640
Speaker 2: the National Deer Association, the President and CEO, Nick Pennzoto

19
00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:24,640
Speaker 2: and the Director of Conservation mister Matt Ross. Both of

20
00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:27,440
Speaker 2: them have been on the show in the past, they

21
00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:31,120
Speaker 2: are friends of the show. They are terrific. Terrific is

22
00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:35,120
Speaker 2: the word I'm looking for. Terrific representatives of the hunting community,

23
00:01:35,920 --> 00:01:40,280
Speaker 2: and both have just a wealth of experience and information

24
00:01:40,360 --> 00:01:42,160
Speaker 2: to share with us when it comes to this set

25
00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:44,440
Speaker 2: of issues and what we're going to be talking about

26
00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:46,119
Speaker 2: and what at least is going to lead us off

27
00:01:46,319 --> 00:01:49,560
Speaker 2: is the Deer Report, which is a document that the

28
00:01:49,680 --> 00:01:53,560
Speaker 2: NBA publishes every year that kind of reviews the state

29
00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:57,000
Speaker 2: of deer across the country. It looks at the latest

30
00:01:57,120 --> 00:02:01,320
Speaker 2: data from state fishing game departments, giving us insight into,

31
00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:05,000
Speaker 2: you know, deer harvest trends, the numbers of deer being killed,

32
00:02:06,120 --> 00:02:08,400
Speaker 2: all sorts of things related to you know, what types

33
00:02:08,440 --> 00:02:10,200
Speaker 2: of weapons are you used, how many bucks, how many

34
00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:14,120
Speaker 2: dos aide structure, bon recruitment, a lot of important herd

35
00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:19,120
Speaker 2: related data, as well as covering some of the latest issues, trends,

36
00:02:19,320 --> 00:02:23,919
Speaker 2: current events, different things impacting deer, deer habitat, and deer

37
00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:26,760
Speaker 2: hunting in the future. So we get a review of

38
00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:28,680
Speaker 2: all that kind of stuff, We get the headlines of

39
00:02:28,720 --> 00:02:32,200
Speaker 2: that most recent report, and then maybe the most interesting

40
00:02:32,200 --> 00:02:34,640
Speaker 2: part of this at least from my perspective, was the

41
00:02:34,639 --> 00:02:38,160
Speaker 2: conversation that Nick and Matt and I have around what

42
00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:41,880
Speaker 2: the future of deer hunting, you know, what that might

43
00:02:41,919 --> 00:02:45,320
Speaker 2: look like over the next ten twenty thirty years. What

44
00:02:45,639 --> 00:02:49,000
Speaker 2: could we as hunters have as a role in the future.

45
00:02:49,560 --> 00:02:53,520
Speaker 2: What are our obligations, what are opportunities, what are the threats?

46
00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:56,000
Speaker 2: What are these major things that we need to be

47
00:02:56,080 --> 00:02:59,000
Speaker 2: keeping tabs on to make sure that you know, these

48
00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:01,359
Speaker 2: aren't the good old days of deer hunting that someday

49
00:03:01,360 --> 00:03:04,280
Speaker 2: they're looking back on and wishing they had. Hopefully things

50
00:03:04,320 --> 00:03:07,160
Speaker 2: continue to get better and better, right, And that's what

51
00:03:07,160 --> 00:03:10,280
Speaker 2: we talk about here today, taking a clear look at

52
00:03:10,320 --> 00:03:12,960
Speaker 2: where we stand as a deer hunting community in twenty

53
00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:17,320
Speaker 2: twenty five and where are we going. So we've got

54
00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:20,359
Speaker 2: a lot to come on this on this series over

55
00:03:20,360 --> 00:03:23,359
Speaker 2: the next month, we're going to talk about deer related issues.

56
00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:26,560
Speaker 2: We're going to talk about public land related issues. We're

57
00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:28,920
Speaker 2: going to be talking about ways that we can make

58
00:03:29,480 --> 00:03:33,840
Speaker 2: you know, issues around nature and the environment and wildlife

59
00:03:33,880 --> 00:03:35,960
Speaker 2: and public lands, how we can make all of that

60
00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:39,800
Speaker 2: more bipartisan. I think that's really important these days as

61
00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:42,560
Speaker 2: things seem to be getting more and more ugly with

62
00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:45,960
Speaker 2: this party against party fighting. I hate to see that

63
00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:49,800
Speaker 2: splitting the outdoor community or pitting different groups against each

64
00:03:49,840 --> 00:03:52,840
Speaker 2: other when really, for many of us, we just love

65
00:03:52,920 --> 00:03:55,720
Speaker 2: this stuff. We love deer, we love deer hunting, we

66
00:03:55,760 --> 00:03:59,800
Speaker 2: love wild places, wildlife, the opportunities to hunt, the opportunity

67
00:03:59,800 --> 00:04:03,720
Speaker 2: to have public landscapes to recreate on. That stuff really matters.

68
00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:06,280
Speaker 2: We can be a part of keeping that stuff around

69
00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:09,440
Speaker 2: well into the future, and so this month we'll be

70
00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:12,839
Speaker 2: covering exactly how we can do that. So, without any

71
00:04:12,880 --> 00:04:16,880
Speaker 2: further ado, the first episode of our Conservation Month series,

72
00:04:17,279 --> 00:04:19,800
Speaker 2: my chat with Nick Penzoto and Matt Ross from the

73
00:04:19,880 --> 00:04:23,279
Speaker 2: National Deer Association as we discuss the state of the

74
00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:33,560
Speaker 2: white tail Union. All right with me now this Monday morning,

75
00:04:33,640 --> 00:04:36,880
Speaker 2: I am joined by Nick Penzoto and Matt Ross from

76
00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:41,240
Speaker 2: the NDA. Thank you, gentlemen for chatting with me today.

77
00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:45,040
Speaker 3: Thanks for having us, Mark Greait to be here.

78
00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:48,240
Speaker 2: Absolutely, it's always it's always great to have an excuse

79
00:04:48,279 --> 00:04:50,479
Speaker 2: to catch up with the two of you, and we've

80
00:04:50,480 --> 00:04:53,200
Speaker 2: got a good one here today because this is an

81
00:04:53,279 --> 00:04:56,279
Speaker 2: annual check in that we've had for a long time

82
00:04:56,360 --> 00:05:00,279
Speaker 2: running now, but a little bit different because usually it's

83
00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:03,719
Speaker 2: myself and Kip here for the usual State of the

84
00:05:03,760 --> 00:05:07,599
Speaker 2: White Tail Union. But we kicked Kip to the curb

85
00:05:07,839 --> 00:05:09,680
Speaker 2: this year because he was just on the show like

86
00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:11,960
Speaker 2: a month month and a half ago, and I didn't

87
00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:15,359
Speaker 2: want to bother him again so quickly, so I thought

88
00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:19,839
Speaker 2: I'd pull in top Dog at the NDA and you,

89
00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:23,880
Speaker 2: mister Ross, to have a good chat here. So there's

90
00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:26,200
Speaker 2: a couple of things I'm hoping to achieve. Number One,

91
00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:30,240
Speaker 2: I'd love to cover some of the headlines of the

92
00:05:30,440 --> 00:05:32,840
Speaker 2: Deer Report that came out this year in twenty twenty five,

93
00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:35,960
Speaker 2: get a sense of some of the most important trends

94
00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:39,640
Speaker 2: and issues and numbers when it comes to deer and

95
00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:43,640
Speaker 2: deer hunting. And then I also want to look forward,

96
00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:46,240
Speaker 2: kind of take a glance into the future, especially since

97
00:05:46,279 --> 00:05:49,080
Speaker 2: we have you here with us, Nick, to see what's

98
00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:51,480
Speaker 2: on your mind and what's on the organization's mind when

99
00:05:51,520 --> 00:05:54,160
Speaker 2: it comes to the future of deer and deer hunting

100
00:05:54,240 --> 00:05:57,880
Speaker 2: and our role in the you know, in the conservation community.

101
00:05:57,920 --> 00:06:00,440
Speaker 2: I guess. So that's kind of our gen to the

102
00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:05,040
Speaker 2: itinerary here and maybe I'll throw it to you first,

103
00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:07,120
Speaker 2: Mass since I know you you get to be kind

104
00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:08,960
Speaker 2: of involved in a lot of the Deer Report things

105
00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:11,599
Speaker 2: and pulling this data and putting together this thing every

106
00:06:11,640 --> 00:06:14,559
Speaker 2: year with Kip. When you look at the twenty twenty

107
00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:17,480
Speaker 2: five Deer Report, what stands up to you as as

108
00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:21,200
Speaker 2: issue number one or data point number one that was

109
00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:24,520
Speaker 2: most interesting to you?

110
00:06:24,520 --> 00:06:26,720
Speaker 4: You know, I've been thinking about that being the first

111
00:06:26,720 --> 00:06:28,880
Speaker 4: time kind of doing the state of the Union on deer.

112
00:06:29,800 --> 00:06:34,040
Speaker 4: There's certainly some headwinds and obstacles that we focus on,

113
00:06:34,320 --> 00:06:36,800
Speaker 4: and it's it's really easy to think about that, and

114
00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:38,599
Speaker 4: I'm sure we're going to get into some of the issues,

115
00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:42,440
Speaker 4: but kind of big picture, you know for folks if

116
00:06:42,440 --> 00:06:44,440
Speaker 4: you hadn't read the report or if you don't follow

117
00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:46,800
Speaker 4: what we do with that, and it's a it's a

118
00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:49,680
Speaker 4: team effort. So like basically our entire company is working

119
00:06:49,760 --> 00:06:55,599
Speaker 4: on that. I I think we are in a really

120
00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:59,560
Speaker 4: good place today. You know, there's looking forward, there's some concerns,

121
00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:04,320
Speaker 4: but if hunters don't recognize, you know, the North American

122
00:07:04,320 --> 00:07:06,480
Speaker 4: Deer Hunter is at a pretty good spot right now.

123
00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:09,880
Speaker 4: We're shooting a lot of deer, like record number of deer,

124
00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:15,720
Speaker 4: and the h structure is excellent. It's like one of

125
00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:19,200
Speaker 4: the best we've ever had. And so when you think

126
00:07:19,240 --> 00:07:22,240
Speaker 4: about deer hunting, obviously a lot of us think about

127
00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:24,840
Speaker 4: what we accomplished in the past season or in the

128
00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:29,320
Speaker 4: last couple of seasons. But by and large, nationally, we're

129
00:07:29,320 --> 00:07:33,600
Speaker 4: in an awesome place and deer hunters are reaping the

130
00:07:33,640 --> 00:07:38,080
Speaker 4: benefits on some really amazing you know, demographics when it

131
00:07:38,080 --> 00:07:41,520
Speaker 4: comes to deer hunting and the composition of those deer

132
00:07:41,560 --> 00:07:44,240
Speaker 4: that we're killing. So we should pat ourselves on a back.

133
00:07:44,520 --> 00:07:48,559
Speaker 4: We should be excited that things are so good right now.

134
00:07:50,120 --> 00:07:52,240
Speaker 4: You know, we do need to look forward. We have

135
00:07:52,320 --> 00:07:55,160
Speaker 4: to pay attention to the things that are coming towards us.

136
00:07:55,160 --> 00:07:57,760
Speaker 4: That's what we do here at the National Deer Association.

137
00:07:57,920 --> 00:08:02,280
Speaker 4: I know that you provide that platform for us to

138
00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:05,480
Speaker 4: talk about it, and those things are important, but they

139
00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:08,280
Speaker 4: shouldn't take away that we should celebrate how well things

140
00:08:08,320 --> 00:08:11,880
Speaker 4: are going right now in the big picture. That's kind

141
00:08:11,920 --> 00:08:15,880
Speaker 4: of what I think of. You know, we're shooting record

142
00:08:16,120 --> 00:08:19,160
Speaker 4: number of bucks in terms of total numbers, and then

143
00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:20,360
Speaker 4: the eight structor is amazing.

144
00:08:21,360 --> 00:08:23,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, so what are we at as far as I

145
00:08:23,960 --> 00:08:27,840
Speaker 2: think we're right at the record for most three and

146
00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:31,200
Speaker 2: a half plus zero bucks shot, right, we've kind of stabilized,

147
00:08:31,280 --> 00:08:33,560
Speaker 2: right in that's it's almost almost a third of the

148
00:08:33,559 --> 00:08:36,559
Speaker 2: bucks harveston now average across the nation are three and

149
00:08:36,600 --> 00:08:38,160
Speaker 2: a half plus, right, something like that.

150
00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:41,880
Speaker 4: It was a record last dear season. So the twenty

151
00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:46,280
Speaker 4: twenty five Deer Report uses data from the most recent

152
00:08:46,640 --> 00:08:48,880
Speaker 4: when we published it, which comes out, you know, a

153
00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:51,360
Speaker 4: month and a half ago or two months ago. At

154
00:08:51,360 --> 00:08:53,800
Speaker 4: this point, seasons were still open. So it's for the

155
00:08:53,840 --> 00:08:58,240
Speaker 4: twenty twenty three twenty twenty four deer season, and that year,

156
00:08:58,920 --> 00:09:03,760
Speaker 4: for that season, we killed forty let me try to

157
00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:06,480
Speaker 4: think about it. I think it was forty three percent,

158
00:09:06,880 --> 00:09:12,160
Speaker 4: which was a record. In terms of eighth structure, we

159
00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:17,079
Speaker 4: killed about twenty six percent of that buck harvest was yearlings,

160
00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:20,520
Speaker 4: so much more three and a half year old plus.

161
00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:24,080
Speaker 4: And in terms of total number of bucks killed that season,

162
00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:26,959
Speaker 4: it was forty three percent of three and a half

163
00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:31,920
Speaker 4: or older. We killed over three million bucks, which has

164
00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:37,320
Speaker 4: only happened in terms of a total buck harvest three

165
00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:40,920
Speaker 4: times since since two thousand and seven. Two thousand and

166
00:09:40,920 --> 00:09:45,000
Speaker 4: seven was the most we've ever killed, but you know,

167
00:09:45,160 --> 00:09:47,160
Speaker 4: it was it was close to the record. Last the

168
00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:50,920
Speaker 4: last full deer season so lots of bucks. Forty three

169
00:09:50,960 --> 00:09:52,720
Speaker 4: percent of them were three and a half or older

170
00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:55,400
Speaker 4: and only twenty six percent we're one and a half

171
00:09:55,480 --> 00:09:55,920
Speaker 4: year olds.

172
00:09:56,400 --> 00:10:00,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's incredible and what a wild change with There's

173
00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:04,079
Speaker 2: a chart in the report that shows that trend for

174
00:10:04,120 --> 00:10:05,920
Speaker 2: the year and a half harvest, which used to be,

175
00:10:06,360 --> 00:10:08,640
Speaker 2: you know, the vast majority of deer killed were a

176
00:10:08,679 --> 00:10:10,320
Speaker 2: year and a half old bucks, and that has just

177
00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:15,360
Speaker 2: plummeted over the years to you know, the reverse, which

178
00:10:16,080 --> 00:10:19,679
Speaker 2: is great for the deer herd. Right, Nick, what's your

179
00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:21,559
Speaker 2: take on all that? And when you look at these

180
00:10:21,679 --> 00:10:22,960
Speaker 2: data points, what does that tell you?

181
00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:26,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I'll take a little bit of a different

182
00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:29,000
Speaker 3: I guess the reverse angle view and what Matt just said,

183
00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:33,640
Speaker 3: And it's interesting. We are shooting record numbers of deer

184
00:10:35,280 --> 00:10:37,360
Speaker 3: and so this will sound like I'm talking out of

185
00:10:37,400 --> 00:10:39,560
Speaker 3: both sides of my mouth, but we're not shooting enough deer.

186
00:10:40,400 --> 00:10:43,199
Speaker 3: And when I say enough deer, the biggest one is antler.

187
00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:43,680
Speaker 2: This deer.

188
00:10:44,679 --> 00:10:46,760
Speaker 3: And you can see the trends you mentioned charts in

189
00:10:46,800 --> 00:10:49,360
Speaker 3: the report. If you're someone who doesn't like to really

190
00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:50,880
Speaker 3: read and you just like to look at pictures, we

191
00:10:50,920 --> 00:10:53,120
Speaker 3: put a lot of them in the report. Check out

192
00:10:53,120 --> 00:10:56,080
Speaker 3: the chart where you can see doe harvest over the

193
00:10:56,120 --> 00:10:59,240
Speaker 3: decade since we've been doing this report, and you can see,

194
00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:02,040
Speaker 3: you know, in the earliest days of the report and

195
00:11:02,120 --> 00:11:05,640
Speaker 3: back in the earliest days of the Quality Deer Management Association,

196
00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:08,800
Speaker 3: there was a huge emphasis on shooting ant list deer.

197
00:11:09,080 --> 00:11:11,160
Speaker 3: I remember it as a young hunter, you know, I

198
00:11:11,240 --> 00:11:13,480
Speaker 3: used to I remember the days we used to had

199
00:11:13,520 --> 00:11:15,240
Speaker 3: to get in a lottery to get one antler list

200
00:11:15,280 --> 00:11:18,560
Speaker 3: deer tag here in Pennsylvania, and the idea of shooting

201
00:11:18,559 --> 00:11:21,000
Speaker 3: more just seemed crazy to me. But we became educated

202
00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:24,000
Speaker 3: as hunters about that. But then what happened was this

203
00:11:24,040 --> 00:11:28,200
Speaker 3: is sort of a maybe an unintended consequence, because people

204
00:11:28,240 --> 00:11:32,280
Speaker 3: do enjoy chasing those older age class bucks. You start

205
00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:36,200
Speaker 3: to hear the rationale of things like, well, the big

206
00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:38,120
Speaker 3: one was probably right behind her, so I didn't want

207
00:11:38,160 --> 00:11:40,200
Speaker 3: to shoot the dough or I didn't shoot them early,

208
00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:41,760
Speaker 3: and I didn't want to shoot him during the rut.

209
00:11:41,800 --> 00:11:44,240
Speaker 3: And then winter comes and the holidays come, and everybody

210
00:11:44,240 --> 00:11:46,680
Speaker 3: gets fat and tired and they don't want to go

211
00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:48,440
Speaker 3: back out in the woods, and so the next thing

212
00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:50,400
Speaker 3: you know, they may have three or four ant list

213
00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:53,600
Speaker 3: tags and they've maybe filled one of them, and so

214
00:11:53,720 --> 00:11:55,360
Speaker 3: I think that's another big part of this. We are

215
00:11:55,480 --> 00:11:58,199
Speaker 3: killing record numbers of deer, record numbers of bucks in particular,

216
00:11:58,240 --> 00:12:00,880
Speaker 3: but we need to shoot more antler lists here for

217
00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:04,280
Speaker 3: a lot of reasons, everything ranging from habitat the disease

218
00:12:04,360 --> 00:12:08,000
Speaker 3: management to frankly, being a good neighbor and helping feed

219
00:12:08,040 --> 00:12:10,240
Speaker 3: people out there. We have a lot of hungry people

220
00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:13,320
Speaker 3: in the country and so hunters can provide There's no

221
00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:15,080
Speaker 3: better story you can tell as a hunter than that

222
00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:17,800
Speaker 3: you helped somebody put some food on their table while

223
00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:21,040
Speaker 3: also providing a conservation service. So yeah, I mean it's

224
00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:22,720
Speaker 3: it's sort of the best of times and the not

225
00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:24,800
Speaker 3: so best of times, depending on how you look at it.

226
00:12:25,760 --> 00:12:28,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'll come on that. That is certainly one of

227
00:12:28,160 --> 00:12:30,480
Speaker 4: the headwinds. And I know that you mentioned Ki being

228
00:12:30,520 --> 00:12:33,040
Speaker 4: on the podcast recently and that was the topic of

229
00:12:33,080 --> 00:12:39,120
Speaker 4: that podcast. That's a big deal and I know I

230
00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:44,200
Speaker 4: would like to talk about that and hunters can do

231
00:12:44,320 --> 00:12:47,240
Speaker 4: it that we can fix the composition of what we're shooting.

232
00:12:47,280 --> 00:12:49,120
Speaker 4: We did it before and if you look at that

233
00:12:49,240 --> 00:12:52,800
Speaker 4: chart that we published that shows the reversal of not

234
00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:55,199
Speaker 4: only h structure. But we have another one that shows

235
00:12:55,440 --> 00:13:00,960
Speaker 4: numbers of bucks and dolls being shot. From two thousand

236
00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:06,000
Speaker 4: ish to twenty fifteen, we were shooting anywhere between five

237
00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:09,920
Speaker 4: and thirty percent more doze or ant list deer than

238
00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:14,800
Speaker 4: we were bucks, and that changed around twenty fifteen. In

239
00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:17,640
Speaker 4: the basically the last decade, we've been shooting about the

240
00:13:17,679 --> 00:13:22,720
Speaker 4: same number of bucks and does or less doze than bucks.

241
00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:27,959
Speaker 4: As Nick just said, that's something that is an easy

242
00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:31,920
Speaker 4: I say easy, but it's it's something we can change.

243
00:13:32,040 --> 00:13:35,560
Speaker 4: We can shift that. But you know, it's good to

244
00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:38,840
Speaker 4: celebrate too, And where I started starting on a positive

245
00:13:38,920 --> 00:13:41,520
Speaker 4: right and paying attention to look at the things that

246
00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:46,360
Speaker 4: if hunters want to think about. You know, both sides

247
00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:48,920
Speaker 4: are our mouth talking about good and bad. There are

248
00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:52,640
Speaker 4: some great things happening right now. There's some bad things

249
00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:55,800
Speaker 4: that I know we'll talk about that we can't control,

250
00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:58,920
Speaker 4: and there's little parts of that we can control, like disease.

251
00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:02,920
Speaker 4: But in terms of the composition of how many dos

252
00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:05,880
Speaker 4: versus bucks being shot, that's something hunters can change, and

253
00:14:05,880 --> 00:14:08,400
Speaker 4: we can change it in a season or two. We

254
00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:11,040
Speaker 4: just need to educate ourselves about the importance of it.

255
00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:15,040
Speaker 4: But you know, by and large, I think hunters are

256
00:14:16,120 --> 00:14:21,000
Speaker 4: enjoying some really good things that are happening. And certainly

257
00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:23,600
Speaker 4: the number of mature bucks out there is important, not

258
00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:25,600
Speaker 4: not to everybody, but it's an important thing and it

259
00:14:25,640 --> 00:14:28,800
Speaker 4: gets people to sit a little bit longer, maybe spend

260
00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:32,880
Speaker 4: a little bit extra money on that gear, which helps everything.

261
00:14:33,200 --> 00:14:37,200
Speaker 4: And that's that's one of the things that I look

262
00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:38,880
Speaker 4: at when I look at the Deer Report is that

263
00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:41,440
Speaker 4: things are great in some ways.

264
00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:44,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I think I think an interesting thing to

265
00:14:44,520 --> 00:14:48,720
Speaker 2: consider here is the fact that you know, to large degree,

266
00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:52,520
Speaker 2: the QTMA and everyone who followed the best practices and

267
00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:55,040
Speaker 2: management objectives and ideas that you guys shared over the

268
00:14:55,120 --> 00:14:59,960
Speaker 2: last twenty thirty years, they influenced a dramatic behavior shift

269
00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:03,320
Speaker 2: over this time period, Right, And I think one of

270
00:15:03,320 --> 00:15:05,600
Speaker 2: the keys to that behavior shift, and the key to

271
00:15:05,640 --> 00:15:09,600
Speaker 2: any kind of behavior shift related to any issue oftentimes,

272
00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:13,040
Speaker 2: is looking at what are the incentives, Like, how do

273
00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:16,600
Speaker 2: you line up what we want to have happened with

274
00:15:17,280 --> 00:15:20,200
Speaker 2: you know, the incentives that this user base has. How

275
00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:21,800
Speaker 2: do we make sure it lines up with the things

276
00:15:21,840 --> 00:15:24,200
Speaker 2: they care about and helps them achieve their goals? Right?

277
00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:27,400
Speaker 2: And I think when we looked at age structure of

278
00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:30,200
Speaker 2: buck harvest. That was a big one, right, and we said, hey,

279
00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:33,840
Speaker 2: here's something that if we change, if we go from

280
00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:36,920
Speaker 2: killing mostly year and a half old bucks to instead

281
00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:42,000
Speaker 2: trying to manage more towards an even age class and

282
00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:44,600
Speaker 2: an older age class, here's how that's going to benefit

283
00:15:44,680 --> 00:15:47,280
Speaker 2: you. You're going to have all of these different benefits to

284
00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:51,760
Speaker 2: the deer herd, to the deer hunting experience, to the habitat,

285
00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:53,760
Speaker 2: all of these other things, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

286
00:15:54,600 --> 00:15:56,800
Speaker 2: And that led to people realizing, oh, hey, if I

287
00:15:56,880 --> 00:15:58,600
Speaker 2: do this, it's going to lead to me having a

288
00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:01,120
Speaker 2: lot more fun and seeing big and having these great

289
00:16:01,520 --> 00:16:04,320
Speaker 2: encounters and seeing running behavior that I never saw before.

290
00:16:04,760 --> 00:16:09,800
Speaker 2: And because it clearly benefited the hunter, they made these changes.

291
00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:14,440
Speaker 2: When it comes to the antler lists harvest issue, I

292
00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:17,280
Speaker 2: think some people are not there's not as clear of

293
00:16:17,320 --> 00:16:20,760
Speaker 2: a connection, or people aren't seeing that as clearly. It's

294
00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:22,920
Speaker 2: very obvious that if I don't shoot that year and

295
00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:24,920
Speaker 2: a half old buck and I give it two more years,

296
00:16:25,080 --> 00:16:26,400
Speaker 2: I'm going to see him again as a three and

297
00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:29,400
Speaker 2: a half year old and he's bigger, and I like that.

298
00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:32,320
Speaker 2: It's a little bit harder for someone to go out

299
00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:34,320
Speaker 2: there and not kill a bunch of does this year

300
00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:37,640
Speaker 2: and then think to himself, Oh, that's going to damage

301
00:16:37,640 --> 00:16:42,280
Speaker 2: my hunting in the future. If anything, the opposite seems

302
00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:45,240
Speaker 2: to sometimes make common sense. If I don't kill a

303
00:16:45,240 --> 00:16:47,240
Speaker 2: bunch of doughs, if I keep the dos around, that

304
00:16:47,240 --> 00:16:49,400
Speaker 2: should bring in the bucks. Or I want to see

305
00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:50,760
Speaker 2: a lot of deer because a lot of deer makes

306
00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:52,800
Speaker 2: my deer hunting a lot of fun. So yeah, why

307
00:16:52,840 --> 00:16:56,440
Speaker 2: would I want to kill all the does? That seems

308
00:16:56,480 --> 00:16:59,400
Speaker 2: to be a continued challenge for a lot of people

309
00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:02,080
Speaker 2: get excited about doing that when they think it might

310
00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:04,919
Speaker 2: actually negatively impact their experience in some kind of ways.

311
00:17:06,119 --> 00:17:09,600
Speaker 2: Can can either one of you, whoever's whoever wants to

312
00:17:09,640 --> 00:17:12,760
Speaker 2: jump in first on this one, tackle that a little bit?

313
00:17:12,800 --> 00:17:15,280
Speaker 2: Can we? And we did this with Kip. We've talked

314
00:17:15,280 --> 00:17:16,680
Speaker 2: about it year after a year for a number of

315
00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:19,159
Speaker 2: years now, but it seems like it's not something that

316
00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:22,760
Speaker 2: we can step away from yet. Can Can someone speak

317
00:17:22,800 --> 00:17:27,000
Speaker 2: a little bit about how this will improve our hunting experience,

318
00:17:27,119 --> 00:17:30,679
Speaker 2: improve our habitat for better deer hunting in the future.

319
00:17:31,080 --> 00:17:35,199
Speaker 2: If we prioritize this. So let's clearly make the connection

320
00:17:35,280 --> 00:17:38,280
Speaker 2: between being more aggressive with dough harvest and how that

321
00:17:38,359 --> 00:17:41,960
Speaker 2: equals better deer hunting and a better deer hunting experience. Nick,

322
00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:44,000
Speaker 2: maybe I'll let you tackle that because you look primed.

323
00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:46,720
Speaker 2: I see you as you were talking.

324
00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:49,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I wanted to. It's like a bird dog.

325
00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:50,760
Speaker 3: It just couldn't hold my point.

326
00:17:50,840 --> 00:17:53,280
Speaker 2: Yeah.

327
00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:58,960
Speaker 3: So it's it's like the person that was out of

328
00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:01,199
Speaker 3: shape and they worked really hard and they got in

329
00:18:01,240 --> 00:18:03,680
Speaker 3: shape and it was great, and they know exactly how

330
00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:07,040
Speaker 3: they got in shape, and then they took their foot

331
00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:09,640
Speaker 3: off the gas a little bit, and now like, yeah,

332
00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:11,320
Speaker 3: a couple of years ago by, and they haven't really

333
00:18:11,359 --> 00:18:12,880
Speaker 3: done the things that got them to where they were

334
00:18:13,040 --> 00:18:16,040
Speaker 3: needed to be, and they'll take a look in the

335
00:18:16,040 --> 00:18:18,480
Speaker 3: mirror and their clothes don't fit as well, and they're like, well,

336
00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:21,120
Speaker 3: what the heck happened? And so I know deep down

337
00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:24,400
Speaker 3: what happened, and so it's just coming back to reality.

338
00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:25,879
Speaker 3: So I think it's two things. I think it's the

339
00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:28,680
Speaker 3: group that came up through and these are people my age,

340
00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:30,959
Speaker 3: by the way, and Matt's not much younger than I am,

341
00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:32,919
Speaker 3: and you're the young guy in the group, Mark, But

342
00:18:34,320 --> 00:18:40,280
Speaker 3: we were, as we were emerging as very dedicated hard hunters,

343
00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:42,840
Speaker 3: we were being brought up in this approach that you

344
00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:44,760
Speaker 3: need to shoot more dos, and so we learned what

345
00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:46,720
Speaker 3: it took to get in shape, okay, deer shape. And

346
00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:50,440
Speaker 3: then seeing is believing. When we started. It's one thing

347
00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:52,840
Speaker 3: to talk about seeing mature deer, but it's another thing

348
00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:55,080
Speaker 3: to start seeing them when you've never really seen them.

349
00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:57,120
Speaker 3: People used to think they saw a big buck, right,

350
00:18:57,640 --> 00:18:59,199
Speaker 3: and it was like a two year old that just

351
00:18:59,240 --> 00:19:02,880
Speaker 3: happened to somehow survived the previous season. When they see

352
00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:06,480
Speaker 3: their first three or four year old, it's like, man,

353
00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:09,560
Speaker 3: the light goes on like that is not even the

354
00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:13,879
Speaker 3: same animal. And that's whenever people started to catch on that, like, okay,

355
00:19:14,040 --> 00:19:16,320
Speaker 3: this is worth a pound of flesh here. We need

356
00:19:16,320 --> 00:19:19,240
Speaker 3: to do a B and C if we want d

357
00:19:19,640 --> 00:19:23,040
Speaker 3: to happen. And so I think our group has taken

358
00:19:23,080 --> 00:19:24,880
Speaker 3: our foot off the gas a little bit. We're like, ah,

359
00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:26,600
Speaker 3: we shot a bunch of dos. Now I just want

360
00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:28,800
Speaker 3: to wait out because we got addicted to shooting big bucks,

361
00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:31,920
Speaker 3: which doing who wouldn't. I don't blame people for that.

362
00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:35,240
Speaker 3: And then the group following behind them sort of already

363
00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:38,200
Speaker 3: grew up with nice deer. Okay, they kind of got

364
00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:40,080
Speaker 3: to skip the part where like Matt and I both

365
00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:43,080
Speaker 3: have a big box in our basements of eighteen month

366
00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:44,920
Speaker 3: old bucks that we shot and we were kids, right,

367
00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:48,679
Speaker 3: they don't have those. They've only known big deer and

368
00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:50,600
Speaker 3: they don't remember what it took to get there. So

369
00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:53,199
Speaker 3: it's like basically being born and being in shape and

370
00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:55,520
Speaker 3: being an Olympic athlete. They skipped all the steps that

371
00:19:55,520 --> 00:19:58,119
Speaker 3: it takes to get there, and so I think we

372
00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:00,919
Speaker 3: have to sort of re educate again and have people understand.

373
00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:03,760
Speaker 3: I mean, I can tell you this. The year previous

374
00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:06,399
Speaker 3: to this, I didn't shoot as many doughs on my

375
00:20:06,520 --> 00:20:08,480
Speaker 3: land as I wanted to, and it come back to

376
00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:10,520
Speaker 3: bite me this year in buck season because you couldn't

377
00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:12,600
Speaker 3: see a mature buck if it wasn't on camera or

378
00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:14,920
Speaker 3: moving at night, because they didn't have to go anywhere.

379
00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:17,480
Speaker 3: There were too many dos. Even just one or two

380
00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:22,080
Speaker 3: extra doughs in an area can dramatically impact your chances

381
00:20:22,119 --> 00:20:24,879
Speaker 3: of seeing a mature deer. As soon as that mature

382
00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:27,080
Speaker 3: deer finds a dough that he connects with, he's going

383
00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:28,800
Speaker 3: to take her to cover and he's not going to

384
00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:30,600
Speaker 3: move for two or three days, and if he doesn't

385
00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:32,480
Speaker 3: have to go far to find the next one, he's

386
00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:34,920
Speaker 3: going to do the very same thing. And so Mark,

387
00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:37,120
Speaker 3: you've had you know, so many people over the years

388
00:20:37,119 --> 00:20:40,439
Speaker 3: on your show and people that listen. You know, I

389
00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:42,399
Speaker 3: hear you and Tony talk about it all the time.

390
00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:46,320
Speaker 3: You can be in the prime, but first ten days

391
00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:49,119
Speaker 3: in November and go nine of those days without seeing

392
00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:52,160
Speaker 3: a buck, the more does you have, the more likely

393
00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:55,320
Speaker 3: that's going to be. So we have to re educate

394
00:20:55,359 --> 00:20:56,560
Speaker 3: people on those points.

395
00:20:56,880 --> 00:20:59,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, Matt, would you add anything on that front.

396
00:20:59,359 --> 00:21:01,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a couple things. I was thinking. You know,

397
00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:03,720
Speaker 4: there's the why it happened, and you know that the

398
00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:09,160
Speaker 4: last decade or so, I think Nick's right, there's there's

399
00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:12,080
Speaker 4: more opportunity at more mature bucks. And so people are

400
00:21:12,119 --> 00:21:15,320
Speaker 4: limited on their time, right and twenty five thirty five

401
00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:20,920
Speaker 4: years ago they were limited on their time, and as well,

402
00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:24,520
Speaker 4: you know time time doesn't change, but there's just more

403
00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:27,080
Speaker 4: opportunity at more mature buck. So there's that part of

404
00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:29,760
Speaker 4: the why is just the first year they see maybe

405
00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:32,280
Speaker 4: a mature buck or the third year they see or

406
00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:34,840
Speaker 4: something because there's more of them. I think also people

407
00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:38,800
Speaker 4: are a little bit gun shy literally and figuratively because

408
00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:41,960
Speaker 4: there were some shifts ten years ago in terms of

409
00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:46,080
Speaker 4: some issues happening, and people backed off on shooting dos,

410
00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:48,439
Speaker 4: and we just haven't pushed hard to get them to

411
00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:52,280
Speaker 4: do that. From the benefits standpoint, to answer your question

412
00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:56,199
Speaker 4: at a personal level, and then also at the you

413
00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:59,800
Speaker 4: know the system level, at the you know what's good

414
00:21:59,880 --> 00:22:02,120
Speaker 4: for the herd, what's good for the environment, there's both

415
00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:06,280
Speaker 4: of those things. You know. I make it a personal

416
00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:09,000
Speaker 4: responsibility on myself to shoot dose because I know it

417
00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:12,400
Speaker 4: achieves success for both of those things. It will make

418
00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:15,960
Speaker 4: my hunting better. And it's hard to say that when

419
00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:18,240
Speaker 4: a few minutes ago I just told people how great

420
00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:22,359
Speaker 4: things are on the h structure side. But it is

421
00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:25,240
Speaker 4: a it's a moving target every year. And if you

422
00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:30,399
Speaker 4: aren't shooting at least in most in most places in

423
00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:35,840
Speaker 4: the country, unless it's low productive you know, areas extreme North,

424
00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:40,040
Speaker 4: extreme South, drought, laid in heavy winters, those kinds of things.

425
00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:42,760
Speaker 4: But for most hunters, like nine out of ten hunters,

426
00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:44,880
Speaker 4: you should be shooting at least a dough for every

427
00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:47,320
Speaker 4: buck that you take on a property or in a

428
00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:51,040
Speaker 4: county and that will keep things balanced. And if you

429
00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:55,080
Speaker 4: don't do that, the heyday that we're enjoying right now

430
00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:59,320
Speaker 4: will go backwards. And so that that's really that's a

431
00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:03,200
Speaker 4: real risk. I mean, for the past seven years, five

432
00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:05,679
Speaker 4: of the last seven years we've shot more bucks than

433
00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:10,680
Speaker 4: does nationally. It doesn't take that many years. We will

434
00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:13,800
Speaker 4: start seeing a shift. And I if we don't change

435
00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:16,760
Speaker 4: it from a hunter perspective and start shooting more, does

436
00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:19,760
Speaker 4: that forty three percent of mature bucks in the harvest

437
00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:24,480
Speaker 4: will start dropping and the you'll start seeing the change

438
00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:26,639
Speaker 4: in it. I mean, that's that is going to happen.

439
00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:28,960
Speaker 4: I can you know, mark my words. So we need

440
00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:32,560
Speaker 4: to start shooting dose And there's those benefits at the

441
00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:35,239
Speaker 4: at the property level and for the person. But then

442
00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:39,480
Speaker 4: it's also you know, at the system level, we have

443
00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:44,040
Speaker 4: to balance deer herds. That's what hunters do. We can

444
00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:47,160
Speaker 4: provide food to other people, there's the benefit of that too,

445
00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:51,760
Speaker 4: But if we are not managing deer, I mean, Kip

446
00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:55,520
Speaker 4: Adams says this. You know, hunting is not our right,

447
00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:58,639
Speaker 4: it's a privilege, it is, and if we are not

448
00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:03,239
Speaker 4: managing deer herds hunters would become obsolete and there's going

449
00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:05,160
Speaker 4: to be another way that we have to manage deer.

450
00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:08,679
Speaker 4: And so I mean not to get super serious about it,

451
00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:10,600
Speaker 4: but hunters got to wake up and we have to

452
00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:12,600
Speaker 4: start shooting more dos, and we need to start doing

453
00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:16,200
Speaker 4: it soon. Didn't want to start the podcast that way,

454
00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:18,680
Speaker 4: but honestly, we do need to and you will feel

455
00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:20,880
Speaker 4: it personally and we'll see it at a system level

456
00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:23,760
Speaker 4: too if we don't. And so, you know, five out

457
00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:26,120
Speaker 4: of the last seven years, shooting more bucks and dos

458
00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:28,679
Speaker 4: is not a good thing. But that's the thing that

459
00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:32,280
Speaker 4: I was saying earlier that I know that's a thing

460
00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:36,840
Speaker 4: that we can fix. CWD you hopefully will fix, and

461
00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:40,120
Speaker 4: I'm sure we'll talk about that, but that's something that's

462
00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:43,159
Speaker 4: unachievable to most hunters. But all you have to do

463
00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:46,360
Speaker 4: is decide to shoot a doe because they're out there

464
00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:48,760
Speaker 4: just as much as they are are buck. So hunters

465
00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:51,080
Speaker 4: can fix that. We can start shooting dose. I know

466
00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:51,320
Speaker 4: we can.

467
00:24:51,400 --> 00:25:05,280
Speaker 2: We've done it before, and I feel like for a

468
00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:08,159
Speaker 2: lot of years, when we have looked at what's the

469
00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:12,119
Speaker 2: existential threat to deer hunting in the future, for a

470
00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:15,359
Speaker 2: lot of years. It's we've looked at disease as being

471
00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:19,280
Speaker 2: you know that that boogieyman, that that very serious concerning

472
00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:25,679
Speaker 2: red flag issue. But am I wrong to start the

473
00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:27,880
Speaker 2: vibe shift for me? Or at least when I'm looking

474
00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:30,399
Speaker 2: at things and hearing about things, and looking at data

475
00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:34,639
Speaker 2: and looking at the way things are trending and bigger

476
00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:37,560
Speaker 2: picture system level questions like you're talking about, Matt, I'm

477
00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:40,760
Speaker 2: starting to feel more and more like antler list harvest

478
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:45,040
Speaker 2: and deer numbers are increasingly becoming that big red flag issue.

479
00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:48,000
Speaker 2: There's a data point in the report that showed that

480
00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:50,840
Speaker 2: I think the number was that in the last five years,

481
00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:54,879
Speaker 2: deer depredation tags have gone up fifty eight percent. So

482
00:25:54,920 --> 00:26:01,680
Speaker 2: we're seeing deer management increasingly being outsoured to other methods

483
00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:06,159
Speaker 2: other than traditional deer hunting to manage that issue. We're seeing,

484
00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:08,120
Speaker 2: you know, over the last ten years, more and more

485
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:14,080
Speaker 2: communities looking at alternative approaches to managing deer herds, sterilization, sharpshooting,

486
00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:19,840
Speaker 2: things like that. You know, our state deer manager here

487
00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:24,000
Speaker 2: in Michigan basically is pleading with the hunters of Michigan

488
00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:27,000
Speaker 2: to please start killing more analysts deer because if we

489
00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:30,840
Speaker 2: don't do it, we will lose our management privilege as

490
00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:35,000
Speaker 2: deer hunters. It sure felt like an existential threat coming

491
00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:38,879
Speaker 2: from him emailing the entire state hunting populations saying we

492
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:41,640
Speaker 2: need you to start killing more does otherwise we will

493
00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:45,040
Speaker 2: not be able to have that opportunity as hunters because

494
00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:49,800
Speaker 2: other means will be pulled in. Am I wrong when

495
00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:52,600
Speaker 2: I start feeling like this is the issue? Now?

496
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:58,000
Speaker 4: Well, no, there's a couple of reasons why it is

497
00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:02,320
Speaker 4: the issue. It's related to disease. You know, chronic wasting

498
00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:06,480
Speaker 4: disease is spreading. It's in thirty six states now. Prevalence

499
00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:08,400
Speaker 4: rates are getting to the point in some places where

500
00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:11,119
Speaker 4: it's been the longest where we're seeing population effects and

501
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:14,400
Speaker 4: having too many deer is a major major problem with that.

502
00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:19,080
Speaker 4: Related to that though, and you know I just said this,

503
00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:22,320
Speaker 4: We can write the ship on that. Hunters have control

504
00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:24,560
Speaker 4: over that. We just have to be inspired and educated

505
00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:27,560
Speaker 4: to do so. And so it's it's it becomes the

506
00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:29,919
Speaker 4: lowest hole in the bucket because you can see it

507
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:35,480
Speaker 4: change quickly. You know, along those lines. There's not just

508
00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:37,919
Speaker 4: one data point in the deer report. I actually just

509
00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:42,880
Speaker 4: give a presentation about ant Lilis's harvest issues across the country.

510
00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:46,240
Speaker 4: It's not only depredation permits, but we're seeing faun recruitment

511
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:50,720
Speaker 4: rates nationally drop, which means that deer actually producing more

512
00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:54,760
Speaker 4: of or sorry, producing less of themselves because deer densities

513
00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:57,120
Speaker 4: are getting to the point where faun recruitment is low,

514
00:27:57,200 --> 00:27:59,640
Speaker 4: which fun recruitment is a measure of how many deer

515
00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:04,080
Speaker 4: recruit did into the population. That's a sign. You know,

516
00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:06,879
Speaker 4: there's more than that. I can dive into all the

517
00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:12,520
Speaker 4: points if you want, but it's become the topic because

518
00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:15,360
Speaker 4: more seats are dealing with it, and it is related

519
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:17,200
Speaker 4: to some of these other things. And I'm sure Nick

520
00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:19,000
Speaker 4: has some views on that as well, but I think

521
00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:21,280
Speaker 4: that's why we're talking about as much as we are.

522
00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:23,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I'll throw on one other thing on top

523
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:27,119
Speaker 2: of that before I toss it to you, Nick. This

524
00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:32,000
Speaker 2: idea of bringing back market hunting to try to incentivize

525
00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:34,239
Speaker 2: people to kill deer. That's the thing that keeps popping up.

526
00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:36,600
Speaker 2: Just a handful of weeks ago, I heard about Indiana,

527
00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:42,320
Speaker 2: someone in Indiana, a legislator proposing that possibly, so there's

528
00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:45,040
Speaker 2: another huge threat to the North American model of wildlife

529
00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:48,200
Speaker 2: conservation and everything we've achieved here in America, because again,

530
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:51,560
Speaker 2: if we aren't managing deer herds, there's all these other

531
00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:54,680
Speaker 2: trickle down effects that that has on people who aren't

532
00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:56,640
Speaker 2: deer hunters, who are going to say, hey, we need

533
00:28:56,640 --> 00:28:58,280
Speaker 2: to deal with this deer hunting thing. And if that

534
00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:01,040
Speaker 2: means putting some dollars on top of it to get

535
00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:04,560
Speaker 2: these deer killed, or giving depredation tags to anyone, or

536
00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:06,760
Speaker 2: hiring sharp shooters, yeah, sure, go for it. We don't

537
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:08,680
Speaker 2: care about deer hunters. We just want this deer gone.

538
00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:14,120
Speaker 2: That's what's at risk if we don't handle our own

539
00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:18,760
Speaker 2: business ourselves. So Nick would like to add anything on them.

540
00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:23,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, I appreciate you teaming up on that one, you

541
00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:25,480
Speaker 3: being on our board. Mark just got an email for

542
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:29,040
Speaker 3: me about a week and a half ago saying we're

543
00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:31,480
Speaker 3: looking for some help from the board to work on

544
00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:33,880
Speaker 3: some of our position statements, and one of those position

545
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:39,960
Speaker 3: statements is the sale of wild Venison. I never had hoped,

546
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:43,520
Speaker 3: ever I've been here over nine years now, believe it

547
00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:47,760
Speaker 3: or not, that I think we'd be having meetings about

548
00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:50,600
Speaker 3: positions on the sale of wild Venicon. I just thought

549
00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:53,240
Speaker 3: that was always a protected thing. And so yeah, it's

550
00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:55,600
Speaker 3: not just Indiana. Other places in New England and other

551
00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:59,640
Speaker 3: places are starting to put out feelers about what it

552
00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:03,640
Speaker 3: might look like to allow hunters to sell venison. And

553
00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:06,080
Speaker 3: so you know, we're not just this is not a

554
00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:08,400
Speaker 3: scare tactic to get listeners to say, oh, they're just

555
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:11,560
Speaker 3: you know, trying to raise our hackles here. This is reality.

556
00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:14,560
Speaker 3: We're having meetings about it at the NDA. We're having

557
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:20,320
Speaker 3: meetings about our focus really being shifted toward antlerless harvest

558
00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:23,720
Speaker 3: for the reasons we talked about. That's not to say

559
00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:26,480
Speaker 3: we still don't care about good age classes and bucks

560
00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:28,640
Speaker 3: and mature deer and habitat. If you follow all of

561
00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:30,840
Speaker 3: our stuff, you see that it's all still very much there.

562
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:33,640
Speaker 3: We care about it. I just personally posted a habitat

563
00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:36,280
Speaker 3: video from yesterday running a chainsaw Ali day. Okay, so

564
00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:39,400
Speaker 3: we still care about that. But good habitat also is

565
00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:42,320
Speaker 3: an important disease control as well, because the better habitat

566
00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:45,680
Speaker 3: you have, the less congregated deer have to be, and

567
00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:47,240
Speaker 3: so it all goes hand in hand. And that's what

568
00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:50,400
Speaker 3: we're about at the NDA is sort of teaching that

569
00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:53,760
Speaker 3: comprehensive style of management that's good for all the things

570
00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:57,640
Speaker 3: from hunting all the way down to herd management, habitat management,

571
00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:03,120
Speaker 3: management of other species. And so, yeah, we're concerned about

572
00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:05,520
Speaker 3: those things. We're not just making them up. We wish

573
00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:07,800
Speaker 3: we didn't have to talk about them, but these are

574
00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:10,160
Speaker 3: conversations that we're having, you know, sort of a behind

575
00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:12,720
Speaker 3: the scenes look at the NDA. We're having these conversations

576
00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:16,560
Speaker 3: about how do we make sure people understand our position

577
00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:19,080
Speaker 3: is we don't support the sale of wild benison.

578
00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:25,760
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, A lot to tackle then, and we haven't

579
00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:27,960
Speaker 2: even really I guess, Matt, you alluded to it a

580
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:35,680
Speaker 2: little bit. But I'm increasingly seeing papers or articles exploring,

581
00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:39,480
Speaker 2: you know, threats to biodiversity and whitetail deer being pointed

582
00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:43,520
Speaker 2: to as one of the major threats against biodiversity. So,

583
00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:45,840
Speaker 2: because of the overpopulation of white tail deer and their

584
00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:50,000
Speaker 2: impacts on habitat, it's negatively influencing other species. What a

585
00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:52,680
Speaker 2: crazy thing to think about when we as deer hunters

586
00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:56,640
Speaker 2: who consider ourselves tremendous conservationists and people that really care

587
00:31:56,640 --> 00:32:00,000
Speaker 2: about the natural world, when the thing that we care

588
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:03,000
Speaker 2: about so much is negatively impacting the rest of the

589
00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:06,200
Speaker 2: thing we care so much about. That's not a good thing,

590
00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:10,800
Speaker 2: and it's also not good for the future of this resource.

591
00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:15,239
Speaker 2: If you have the conservation community split where you have

592
00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:17,200
Speaker 2: the deer hunting world saying hey, we want lots of

593
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:19,760
Speaker 2: deer and we want great deer hunting, and then you

594
00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:23,320
Speaker 2: have other folks who care about the natural world saying, well, yeah,

595
00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:26,840
Speaker 2: but there's so many deer it's negatively impacting the habitat

596
00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:29,520
Speaker 2: for all these other critters. And we don't want that happening.

597
00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:33,280
Speaker 2: Either we're losing allies there or possibly losing our opportunities,

598
00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:36,600
Speaker 2: as we've already discussed. So we need to take care

599
00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:39,160
Speaker 2: of our own business. We need to right. We got

600
00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:42,240
Speaker 2: to clean our bedroom right before we can worry about

601
00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:44,360
Speaker 2: all that other stuff. And that seems, like you said, Matt,

602
00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:47,640
Speaker 2: the great thing about the antler list issue and the

603
00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:53,000
Speaker 2: deer population issue is that the connection between problem and

604
00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:56,880
Speaker 2: solution is so clear and so actionable and so much

605
00:32:56,920 --> 00:33:01,520
Speaker 2: within our hands. While disease some times feels like golly like,

606
00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:05,239
Speaker 2: CWD is one of those deals where it seems so

607
00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:08,400
Speaker 2: much more challenging to wrap your head around, how do

608
00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:10,440
Speaker 2: we you know, how do we really fix us? In

609
00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:14,960
Speaker 2: the long term, so so so yeah, like you said, Matt,

610
00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:16,680
Speaker 2: I hate to hate to start on a downer on

611
00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:19,080
Speaker 2: that front, but since we are, let's keep on rolling

612
00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:24,920
Speaker 2: with downers. The natural transition is to disease and that

613
00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:28,760
Speaker 2: has been a major issue we've talked about over the years. Nick,

614
00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:30,880
Speaker 2: can you update us a little bit on where we

615
00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:36,479
Speaker 2: stand with CWD? Is the is the is the concern

616
00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:39,440
Speaker 2: level at the same place it has been in recent years.

617
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:44,720
Speaker 2: Are we trending positively or negatively? Where we at? Real quick?

618
00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:46,440
Speaker 3: I do want to say it's not a complete downer

619
00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:48,760
Speaker 3: to shoot more antlers there. I mean, it's a heck

620
00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:51,800
Speaker 3: of a lot of fun. Yeah, we have more opportunities

621
00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:53,680
Speaker 3: and tags than ever. Matt and I we walked the

622
00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:56,120
Speaker 3: walk and we were I think I shot the most

623
00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:58,840
Speaker 3: doze in the NBA team. Matt was right there Cole

624
00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:01,720
Speaker 3: out in Missouri. So we actually are trying to develop

625
00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:04,520
Speaker 3: contests and things even within our team because it's so

626
00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:07,160
Speaker 3: much fun too. So it's not the end of the world.

627
00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:11,440
Speaker 3: So yeah, I just want to say that, yeah CWD,

628
00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:16,200
Speaker 3: then I go right right to the end of the world, right, Okay,

629
00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:17,920
Speaker 3: So yeah, we're as Mad had said, we're in thirty

630
00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:21,560
Speaker 3: six states now, recently out of Georgia, uh, seeing in

631
00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:24,120
Speaker 3: some seeing it pop up in some other states where

632
00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:28,879
Speaker 3: it hadn't been before. Yeah, I mean, it's it's out there.

633
00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:31,720
Speaker 3: It's obviously we can't deny the fact that it's growing

634
00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:33,960
Speaker 3: and spreading in different areas in the country. There are

635
00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:38,320
Speaker 3: some really what I would call, you know, white hot

636
00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:41,279
Speaker 3: fires of CWD in a few places in the in

637
00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:45,319
Speaker 3: the country. Obviously some areas in Wisconsin. We have in

638
00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:48,560
Speaker 3: south central Pennsylvania one of those spots where you know,

639
00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:50,759
Speaker 3: at this point you can you can start to see

640
00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:53,359
Speaker 3: some population level decline. The things that people said would

641
00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:55,920
Speaker 3: never happen are actually happening, and there's real peer reviewed

642
00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:59,160
Speaker 3: signs that shows that. And so it's it's frustrating for

643
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:01,600
Speaker 3: us because we have of you know, there's some folks

644
00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:05,399
Speaker 3: out there who you know, have a platform that talk

645
00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:08,560
Speaker 3: down on the NDA because we talk about CWD and

646
00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:12,040
Speaker 3: we're the gloom and doom and it's funny because it's

647
00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:13,960
Speaker 3: the last freaking thing we ever want to talk about.

648
00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:18,200
Speaker 3: And so it's just amazes me that people will take

649
00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:21,960
Speaker 3: that position on it. Listen, it is our responsibility is

650
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:26,160
Speaker 3: the is the country's premier conservation organization for deer to

651
00:35:26,239 --> 00:35:29,759
Speaker 3: talk about CWD and to talk about what hunters can

652
00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:32,120
Speaker 3: do to help. And that's the one nice thing about

653
00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:34,080
Speaker 3: the disease, if there is one, is that hunters can

654
00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:36,840
Speaker 3: actually help. They can do things like fill their antler

655
00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:39,120
Speaker 3: list tags. They can do things like filling their antler

656
00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:43,279
Speaker 3: tag even you know, but a lot of states, of course,

657
00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:45,319
Speaker 3: are like one buck state, so that's just one deer.

658
00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:47,439
Speaker 3: So definitely fill your antler list tags if you can.

659
00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:50,239
Speaker 3: They can do things like be careful about how they

660
00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:52,919
Speaker 3: handle their their deer when it's down and not drive

661
00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:55,719
Speaker 3: it across the country, and you know, not do a

662
00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:58,600
Speaker 3: number of these other things, not feeding deer. If you're

663
00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:01,600
Speaker 3: in a disease area, that type of thing, those best

664
00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:04,240
Speaker 3: management practices are out there. We talk about them a bunch.

665
00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:07,799
Speaker 3: We help several states in the country communicate about CWD,

666
00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:10,840
Speaker 3: and it's just about people doing their part and helping

667
00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:13,560
Speaker 3: more so than it is just getting in the fetal

668
00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:16,239
Speaker 3: position and you know, hoping it goes away. That's not

669
00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:18,799
Speaker 3: how it works. And so as much as we can

670
00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:20,960
Speaker 3: slow the spread, and it's not everywhere. I mean, if

671
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:22,880
Speaker 3: you were to just put the little pins in the

672
00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:25,399
Speaker 3: map where it is versus where it's not. It's still

673
00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:27,799
Speaker 3: not as far as we know in most places. That's good,

674
00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:30,319
Speaker 3: and so let's sort of hold it at bay until

675
00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:31,960
Speaker 3: the science can catch up and we can come up

676
00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:36,880
Speaker 3: with some real, realistic and feasible ways of addressing it

677
00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:39,920
Speaker 3: out there in the wild. So, yeah, we wish we

678
00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:42,120
Speaker 3: didn't have to talk about it, but we have responsibility.

679
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:43,479
Speaker 3: We just can't pretend it's not there.

680
00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:46,919
Speaker 2: Yeah. So one of the things that for a number

681
00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:49,319
Speaker 2: of years now we've talked about is what you just

682
00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:51,719
Speaker 2: ended with there, which is we need to follow all

683
00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:54,000
Speaker 2: the best practices. We need to try to manage her

684
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:58,080
Speaker 2: numbers and make sure we are dealing with carcasses properly

685
00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:00,600
Speaker 2: and not transporting this to somewhere else, because we just

686
00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:04,200
Speaker 2: need to slow the spread, stem the bleeding until the

687
00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:07,879
Speaker 2: science catches up, until solutions arise in some kind of way.

688
00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:10,480
Speaker 2: And a couple of years ago, I don't remember what

689
00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:13,720
Speaker 2: year it was, but recently the CWD Research and Management

690
00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:16,040
Speaker 2: Act passed, which is going to help us get some

691
00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:18,839
Speaker 2: funding for some of this research and hopefully fast track

692
00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:21,160
Speaker 2: some of these things. And that was viewed as something

693
00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:24,359
Speaker 2: that would you know, hopefully help that science catch up.

694
00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:27,640
Speaker 2: I'm just curious, are there any updates on what's happened

695
00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:31,239
Speaker 2: coming out of the passage of that bill and or

696
00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:34,239
Speaker 2: any updates when it comes to research or science or

697
00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:37,200
Speaker 2: possible solutions. Is there any good news on that front?

698
00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:39,759
Speaker 2: Are we making progress? Yeah? I think we are.

699
00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:42,239
Speaker 3: I mean I think we learned something every time a

700
00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:44,640
Speaker 3: new research project is done, you know, whether it be

701
00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:49,040
Speaker 3: an actual biological research or even a human dimensions project. Right,

702
00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:53,600
Speaker 3: you know, the Research and Management Act remains a good idea.

703
00:37:53,840 --> 00:37:56,200
Speaker 3: It still only gets funded. It's slightly over half of

704
00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:58,800
Speaker 3: what it's authorized. The funds we're getting like seventeen million,

705
00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:04,080
Speaker 3: and that gets split between wild deer conservation type research

706
00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:08,359
Speaker 3: and you know, farm deer research. And on the farm

707
00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:12,080
Speaker 3: deer side, they have primarily been focusing a lot of

708
00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:17,600
Speaker 3: their money and attention on genetics research. On the wild side,

709
00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:19,799
Speaker 3: we're looking at a whole bunch of other things. It's

710
00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:23,920
Speaker 3: a lot broader than that. And so, you know, genetic

711
00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:26,480
Speaker 3: research that's been a hot button issue lately. There's some

712
00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:29,920
Speaker 3: states that put forth some legislation. Oklahoma last year went

713
00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:33,200
Speaker 3: as far as to authorize people to start putting genetically

714
00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:37,080
Speaker 3: altered deer out into the wild. And so before you know,

715
00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:39,839
Speaker 3: anyone listening to this, don't take this as me being

716
00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:42,879
Speaker 3: against genetic research, because that's not the case at all.

717
00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:46,480
Speaker 3: I think that CWD is very complex. I think there

718
00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:48,040
Speaker 3: are a lot of different things that we have to

719
00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:49,880
Speaker 3: learn about and in order to come up with something

720
00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:52,920
Speaker 3: to actually address it. But also we can't put all

721
00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:55,879
Speaker 3: our eggs in that basket because number one, there's still

722
00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:59,040
Speaker 3: no matter how much genetics work has been done, nobody

723
00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:01,480
Speaker 3: has come up with a deer that is immune to CWD.

724
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:03,719
Speaker 3: All they've been able to come up with is some

725
00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:06,040
Speaker 3: that are a little more resistant to it, and then

726
00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:09,240
Speaker 3: when they get it, they keep it longer. Well, anybody

727
00:39:09,239 --> 00:39:12,120
Speaker 3: that's been paying attention to anything about CWD knows the

728
00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:14,239
Speaker 3: last thing we want is a deer with CWD on

729
00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:17,400
Speaker 3: the landscape longer. Okay, So that doesn't mean that we

730
00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:20,200
Speaker 3: just quit looking at it. Maybe we're onto something and

731
00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:22,319
Speaker 3: that's sort of a step in the process. I don't know,

732
00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:26,160
Speaker 3: it's well above my ability to understand it. But that's

733
00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:29,240
Speaker 3: a far far reach from saying we need to start

734
00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:32,000
Speaker 3: modifying deer that are a little more resistant and then

735
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:33,880
Speaker 3: put them out in the wild and see what happens.

736
00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:39,719
Speaker 3: Like any credible scientists will tell you, you just do

737
00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:43,040
Speaker 3: not duct conduct those types of experiments and put it

738
00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:46,440
Speaker 3: risk wild deer, which is held in the public trust.

739
00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:49,840
Speaker 3: They belong to all of us. That's a gigantic leap.

740
00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:55,320
Speaker 3: And so we're behind smart research. We're behind smart paced research,

741
00:39:55,640 --> 00:39:59,719
Speaker 3: peer reviewed, let's sample and controlled ways and see what

742
00:39:59,719 --> 00:40:02,880
Speaker 3: we can learned. But we are not behind just throwing

743
00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:05,640
Speaker 3: deer out on the landscape before we even know what's

744
00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:08,440
Speaker 3: going to happen. Everybody, you know, the creator of Frankenstein,

745
00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:11,080
Speaker 3: thought it was a great idea until Frankenstein became alive

746
00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:13,239
Speaker 3: and then it was like, well, crap, what are we

747
00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:15,719
Speaker 3: going to do with this. We can't do that with

748
00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:18,400
Speaker 3: our wild deer resource. It's just irresponsible and we're not

749
00:40:18,440 --> 00:40:18,919
Speaker 3: there yet.

750
00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:23,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, you brought up how you know federal funding for

751
00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:27,640
Speaker 2: that research has not reached the levels we hoped it had.

752
00:40:28,080 --> 00:40:30,319
Speaker 2: There's been all sorts of talk in recent weeks and

753
00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:33,080
Speaker 2: months about federal funding. Super hot topic, very fun to

754
00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:37,560
Speaker 2: talk about. Is there anything related to that that might

755
00:40:37,640 --> 00:40:43,040
Speaker 2: impact CWD research or any other federal funding tied to

756
00:40:43,239 --> 00:40:48,000
Speaker 2: deer deer research, deer habitat. I know there's been a

757
00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:51,560
Speaker 2: number of conservation organizations that had federal grants tied to

758
00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:55,239
Speaker 2: habitat work that are now losing that or those those

759
00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:57,440
Speaker 2: funds are frozen, and those concerns about that and the

760
00:40:57,440 --> 00:41:01,879
Speaker 2: implications that could have anything related to that front. When

761
00:41:01,920 --> 00:41:04,680
Speaker 2: it comes to deer, you.

762
00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:07,520
Speaker 3: Know, there hasn't been any direct impact on things like

763
00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:09,600
Speaker 3: the Research and Management Act, although that has to be

764
00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:13,680
Speaker 3: authorized every year. It's not unrealistic to think that something

765
00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:16,160
Speaker 3: like that could, you know, get to the floor and

766
00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:18,560
Speaker 3: they don't appropriate the money and look at it as

767
00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:21,000
Speaker 3: government waste. I don't know, or the opposite could be true.

768
00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:23,440
Speaker 3: So we're all sitting here. We wake up every day

769
00:41:23,480 --> 00:41:24,640
Speaker 3: and we don't know what we're going to see in

770
00:41:24,640 --> 00:41:26,759
Speaker 3: the news. And then what you see in the news,

771
00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:29,400
Speaker 3: we don't know how much of that will actually become reality.

772
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:31,600
Speaker 3: So I'll just speak to what we have seen so

773
00:41:31,719 --> 00:41:34,160
Speaker 3: far and not try to project too far into the future.

774
00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:37,560
Speaker 3: What we've seen so far is we certainly know some

775
00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:41,880
Speaker 3: folks in partner organizations that have lost their jobs. We've

776
00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:44,760
Speaker 3: seen that happen in a few spots. Has it impacted

777
00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:47,399
Speaker 3: us directly you it probably will in some sense maybe

778
00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:50,399
Speaker 3: the pace of things said. But then on the other

779
00:41:50,440 --> 00:41:52,680
Speaker 3: side of it is we have been doing and this

780
00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:55,360
Speaker 3: Matt is the best qualified person on the planet to

781
00:41:55,400 --> 00:41:57,440
Speaker 3: talk about our work that we've been doing with the

782
00:41:57,480 --> 00:42:01,759
Speaker 3: Forest Service and direct you're taking trees off the landscape

783
00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:05,640
Speaker 3: building habitat. We see reasons for optimism with that. You know,

784
00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:09,719
Speaker 3: this is an administration that believes in the extraction of resources,

785
00:42:09,760 --> 00:42:13,360
Speaker 3: and a renewable resource like trees is right up our alley.

786
00:42:13,400 --> 00:42:15,279
Speaker 3: And you know, mattch leading that work for us, and

787
00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:17,040
Speaker 3: we have reason to believe that we may be doing

788
00:42:17,080 --> 00:42:19,560
Speaker 3: even more of that work. And so I think it's

789
00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:21,239
Speaker 3: a day by day for us. And I don't know,

790
00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:23,239
Speaker 3: you know, if Matt wants to speak further on the

791
00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:25,200
Speaker 3: forestry part of it, but that's that's kind of what

792
00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:25,720
Speaker 3: we see.

793
00:42:26,120 --> 00:42:28,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, Matt, can you can you updates a little bit

794
00:42:28,200 --> 00:42:31,080
Speaker 2: on what the public Lands Initiative looks like? How any

795
00:42:31,120 --> 00:42:35,160
Speaker 2: recent current events influence that? Yeah?

796
00:42:35,200 --> 00:42:39,759
Speaker 4: Sure, so, you know a lot of it is at

797
00:42:39,760 --> 00:42:42,160
Speaker 4: the current level. I haven't seen any direct impacts that

798
00:42:42,280 --> 00:42:46,840
Speaker 4: has slowed us down on the agreements and contracts that

799
00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:51,279
Speaker 4: we already have. I do know forest staff that have

800
00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:55,360
Speaker 4: lost their jobs. Unfortunately, most of those people did not

801
00:42:55,520 --> 00:43:00,799
Speaker 4: oversee the timber management programs that we are involved with,

802
00:43:01,800 --> 00:43:04,880
Speaker 4: some of the volunteer programs that we are doing with

803
00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:07,640
Speaker 4: forced staff, where we have people go out and help

804
00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:11,360
Speaker 4: and do projects. Was was directly impacted or will be

805
00:43:12,080 --> 00:43:16,319
Speaker 4: in some cases. But Nick just said it really well,

806
00:43:16,320 --> 00:43:18,520
Speaker 4: and there's not you know, a ton that I can

807
00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:21,840
Speaker 4: add other than I'm going to wait and see mode

808
00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:25,200
Speaker 4: uh we. The only thing that I that has really

809
00:43:25,200 --> 00:43:27,799
Speaker 4: directly impacted our program is we have some agreements that

810
00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:31,480
Speaker 4: are in the queue waiting to be executed, which would

811
00:43:31,520 --> 00:43:35,680
Speaker 4: be new or modified old agreements that have not been

812
00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:40,719
Speaker 4: signed off on. And that's understandable because there's just a

813
00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:45,080
Speaker 4: lot of things coming through that they're not signing off

814
00:43:45,080 --> 00:43:47,360
Speaker 4: on new things. But we have a lot of contracts

815
00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:50,560
Speaker 4: in place and have work ongoing today. I had an

816
00:43:50,640 --> 00:43:54,080
Speaker 4: update this morning with one of our contractors, and we

817
00:43:54,160 --> 00:43:57,440
Speaker 4: have people doing things active management right now today on

818
00:43:58,120 --> 00:44:01,600
Speaker 4: uh the you know, on multiple for us, so still

819
00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:05,760
Speaker 4: doing work. We just may not up, you know, upload

820
00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:08,799
Speaker 4: new new work for the time being, but I anticipate

821
00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:10,880
Speaker 4: that being a temporary thing and at some point we

822
00:44:11,160 --> 00:44:12,920
Speaker 4: will have those moving as well.

823
00:44:14,360 --> 00:44:18,920
Speaker 2: So that's good, that's great news. What what about I

824
00:44:18,920 --> 00:44:22,600
Speaker 2: guess this brings me to another one of these larger

825
00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:26,000
Speaker 2: federal programs that impacts deer habitat that I was going

826
00:44:26,080 --> 00:44:28,239
Speaker 2: to ask you as about a later point, but maybe

827
00:44:28,320 --> 00:44:31,839
Speaker 2: makes sense now. That's the farm Bill. We've we've had

828
00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:35,000
Speaker 2: a farm Bill that has not been renewed for several

829
00:44:35,120 --> 00:44:37,440
Speaker 2: years now, keeps on getting pushed and pushed and pushed.

830
00:44:38,520 --> 00:44:40,799
Speaker 2: As I understand it, some of the funds for those

831
00:44:40,840 --> 00:44:44,520
Speaker 2: programs within the conservation section of the farm bill might

832
00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:48,880
Speaker 2: be withheld, frozen, or you know, all sorts of questions

833
00:44:48,920 --> 00:44:51,920
Speaker 2: around that. While we're still trying to get this new

834
00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:55,400
Speaker 2: one passed, where you can either one of you speak

835
00:44:55,440 --> 00:44:58,880
Speaker 2: to where things stand with the Farm Bill in regards to,

836
00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:00,879
Speaker 2: you know, the ways in the program the impact deer

837
00:45:00,880 --> 00:45:03,600
Speaker 2: and deer hunters. There's stuff in there that's really important

838
00:45:03,640 --> 00:45:05,680
Speaker 2: to deer hunters and a lot of folks that are

839
00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:09,440
Speaker 2: wondering what's going to happen there. Anyone have thoughts or

840
00:45:09,480 --> 00:45:11,080
Speaker 2: anything that you have heard on that front.

841
00:45:11,160 --> 00:45:16,399
Speaker 3: Yet, there aren't many political volleyballs bigger than the Farm Bill,

842
00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:20,160
Speaker 3: So there are so many elements of the farm Bill

843
00:45:20,200 --> 00:45:23,800
Speaker 3: that the average person doesn't even realize their farm bill programs. Okay,

844
00:45:24,640 --> 00:45:27,640
Speaker 3: and so yeah, it's I think it's responsible for government

845
00:45:27,640 --> 00:45:29,920
Speaker 3: to take a hard look at it and see what

846
00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:33,000
Speaker 3: belongs and what doesn't. It's probably not responsible though, for

847
00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:35,759
Speaker 3: it to have gone this long without a resolution. We

848
00:45:35,880 --> 00:45:39,279
Speaker 3: joke as an organization with Kathery Nappling pull Or, our

849
00:45:39,280 --> 00:45:41,560
Speaker 3: director of policy, as an organization it works on the

850
00:45:41,600 --> 00:45:44,640
Speaker 3: farm bill, we joke that as soon as you get

851
00:45:44,640 --> 00:45:46,480
Speaker 3: one to the finish line, you're starting on the next one.

852
00:45:46,520 --> 00:45:48,880
Speaker 3: And that's the reality of it. So, you know, in

853
00:45:48,920 --> 00:45:51,520
Speaker 3: terms of deer programs, things that impact deer, I mean

854
00:45:51,600 --> 00:45:57,560
Speaker 3: any conservation program or title that could impact the farm landscape,

855
00:45:57,600 --> 00:46:01,279
Speaker 3: for example, could have profound impacts on deer and deer hunting.

856
00:46:01,320 --> 00:46:04,320
Speaker 3: I mean, some of the best deer hunting that people

857
00:46:04,360 --> 00:46:07,600
Speaker 3: talk about and legendarily have written about is done off

858
00:46:07,640 --> 00:46:10,000
Speaker 3: of CRP land, right. You hear that all the time

859
00:46:10,200 --> 00:46:13,840
Speaker 3: in the Midwest, right, just as one glaring example for

860
00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:18,480
Speaker 3: deer hunters to any of these habitat projects that an

861
00:46:18,520 --> 00:46:21,520
Speaker 3: uneducated person may look at and say, well, that doesn't

862
00:46:21,560 --> 00:46:24,920
Speaker 3: impact production agriculture. So we need to quit funding it.

863
00:46:24,920 --> 00:46:27,120
Speaker 3: It's a hypothetical, but you know, there's are the types

864
00:46:27,120 --> 00:46:30,240
Speaker 3: of conversations that are had that has a profound impact

865
00:46:30,280 --> 00:46:35,160
Speaker 3: on deer hunting. So I don't think you're going to

866
00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:38,600
Speaker 3: see any resolution anytime real soon on the Farm Bill.

867
00:46:39,080 --> 00:46:40,759
Speaker 3: One of the things that's in the Farm Bill though,

868
00:46:41,640 --> 00:46:44,680
Speaker 3: that's interesting, there's a program in there that actually can

869
00:46:44,760 --> 00:46:50,480
Speaker 3: fund venison processors. Their fund states to fund venison processors

870
00:46:50,480 --> 00:46:53,560
Speaker 3: to help get deer cut up and also donation programs.

871
00:46:54,280 --> 00:46:56,160
Speaker 3: And so we're talking about the need to harvest a

872
00:46:56,160 --> 00:46:59,919
Speaker 3: bunch more deer. And one of the reasons people give

873
00:47:00,120 --> 00:47:02,399
Speaker 3: often for not shooting more deers that they don't need

874
00:47:02,440 --> 00:47:04,160
Speaker 3: it or they don't have an easy place to get

875
00:47:04,239 --> 00:47:06,839
Speaker 3: rid of it. Well, one of the major initiatives at

876
00:47:06,840 --> 00:47:08,960
Speaker 3: the NBA we're working on one is we're trying to

877
00:47:09,000 --> 00:47:11,680
Speaker 3: connect more states with that federal program that's in the

878
00:47:11,719 --> 00:47:14,560
Speaker 3: Farm Bill to have them take advantage of it. But

879
00:47:14,600 --> 00:47:17,480
Speaker 3: the other thing is we've created this it's about to

880
00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:19,640
Speaker 3: be launched here. Maybe by the time this hits the

881
00:47:19,680 --> 00:47:23,040
Speaker 3: airwaves it'll be out, but we're launching a National Venison

882
00:47:23,120 --> 00:47:26,480
Speaker 3: Processor map, or anybody anywhere in the country can go

883
00:47:26,600 --> 00:47:29,160
Speaker 3: on the web and find their local process, or they

884
00:47:29,200 --> 00:47:32,960
Speaker 3: can determine whether or not they take donations. Nothing like

885
00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:35,160
Speaker 3: this exists out there. We've got a lot of partners

886
00:47:35,200 --> 00:47:38,080
Speaker 3: on it, so we're excited about that. But programs like

887
00:47:38,120 --> 00:47:40,759
Speaker 3: that one in the farm Bill as well, just at

888
00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:42,719
Speaker 3: the time when we're trying to lead people to it

889
00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:45,200
Speaker 3: and connect them to those dollars, we would hate to

890
00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:48,000
Speaker 3: see that go away. And we say, oh, that's one

891
00:47:48,000 --> 00:47:50,000
Speaker 3: tool that we thought we had, Now we don't have

892
00:47:50,080 --> 00:47:52,800
Speaker 3: it anymore. And so that's why groups like ours participate

893
00:47:52,880 --> 00:47:55,440
Speaker 3: in the farm Bill. It does have far ranging implications.

894
00:47:55,920 --> 00:47:57,799
Speaker 3: And I don't mean to ramble, but we could go on.

895
00:47:57,960 --> 00:48:01,040
Speaker 3: We could do a whole show on farm Bill habitat.

896
00:48:00,719 --> 00:48:14,279
Speaker 2: So yeah, we could. Would you add anything that?

897
00:48:14,880 --> 00:48:17,239
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, one thing that I was thinking Nick was

898
00:48:17,280 --> 00:48:20,360
Speaker 4: talking about. It was related to the ant lilist harvest

899
00:48:20,600 --> 00:48:25,040
Speaker 4: issue that we met were discussing earlier. One of the

900
00:48:25,080 --> 00:48:29,680
Speaker 4: causes of hunters to go gun shy, you know, fifteen

901
00:48:29,960 --> 00:48:34,960
Speaker 4: ten years ago was reduction if and basically deer populations.

902
00:48:35,000 --> 00:48:37,319
Speaker 4: There was a drop in deer numbers. It was really

903
00:48:37,360 --> 00:48:41,040
Speaker 4: hard for hunters to be successful in those couple of

904
00:48:41,120 --> 00:48:46,520
Speaker 4: years and that's why a lot of states were backing

905
00:48:46,560 --> 00:48:49,480
Speaker 4: off on their quotas, and there were questions at the

906
00:48:49,520 --> 00:48:51,440
Speaker 4: time of what was the cause of some of these

907
00:48:51,440 --> 00:48:56,839
Speaker 4: harvest drops. And at that time CRP was reduced by

908
00:48:56,920 --> 00:49:01,640
Speaker 4: like twenty percent or more, and so me a lot

909
00:49:01,640 --> 00:49:04,600
Speaker 4: of land was put back into row crop that had

910
00:49:04,640 --> 00:49:08,200
Speaker 4: been in a type of condition that was conducive to

911
00:49:08,239 --> 00:49:10,719
Speaker 4: good food and cover for deer because it was you know,

912
00:49:11,640 --> 00:49:14,560
Speaker 4: waist high or neck high brush that deer like to

913
00:49:14,560 --> 00:49:17,359
Speaker 4: bed in and eat in and spend time. And so

914
00:49:17,600 --> 00:49:20,920
Speaker 4: that was a direct result of seeing deer numbers dropping

915
00:49:21,000 --> 00:49:24,480
Speaker 4: and then states backing off on their analysts harvest, and

916
00:49:24,520 --> 00:49:27,400
Speaker 4: then hunters have really not returned to that. Now CRP

917
00:49:27,520 --> 00:49:29,880
Speaker 4: went in a different direction, and there's more land in

918
00:49:29,960 --> 00:49:34,520
Speaker 4: that currently than there had been at that time. But yeah,

919
00:49:34,560 --> 00:49:39,040
Speaker 4: I mean, it can have far reaching implications from many levels.

920
00:49:39,480 --> 00:49:43,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, we're talking millions of acres of habitat there,

921
00:49:43,920 --> 00:49:46,680
Speaker 2: and it seems like, even though it did go up

922
00:49:47,000 --> 00:49:50,680
Speaker 2: a little bit from the previous lows, from everything I've understood,

923
00:49:50,680 --> 00:49:54,480
Speaker 2: we're still below demand. There's still probably we're below what

924
00:49:54,560 --> 00:49:56,520
Speaker 2: it used to be at one point. It's been kind

925
00:49:56,560 --> 00:49:58,960
Speaker 2: of arbitrarily capped, and it seems like people would like

926
00:49:59,040 --> 00:50:02,919
Speaker 2: to get into the program that can't. And so yeah,

927
00:50:02,960 --> 00:50:05,480
Speaker 2: we're talking millions of acres of a land that could

928
00:50:05,480 --> 00:50:08,840
Speaker 2: be in this great deer habitat, which is not just

929
00:50:08,880 --> 00:50:13,080
Speaker 2: great deer habitat, it's great habitat for upland birds, pollinators,

930
00:50:13,360 --> 00:50:15,719
Speaker 2: grassland birds, small mammals.

931
00:50:16,120 --> 00:50:16,239
Speaker 3: Uh.

932
00:50:16,719 --> 00:50:20,760
Speaker 2: That's the kind of habitat that provides tremendous benefits for

933
00:50:21,120 --> 00:50:25,880
Speaker 2: you know, cleaning our water, sequestering carbon minimizing erosion, a

934
00:50:25,880 --> 00:50:28,319
Speaker 2: lot of a lot of good stuff there that that

935
00:50:28,360 --> 00:50:32,399
Speaker 2: were missing out on unfortunately. So certainly hope a new

936
00:50:32,440 --> 00:50:35,680
Speaker 2: farm bill has passed here soon with with with positive

937
00:50:36,680 --> 00:50:40,480
Speaker 2: conservation title programs. But but yeah, a lot of questions

938
00:50:40,520 --> 00:50:44,560
Speaker 2: around it and and on that front though this habitat thing.

939
00:50:45,160 --> 00:50:47,480
Speaker 2: I was reading an article a while back by uh

940
00:50:48,080 --> 00:50:50,480
Speaker 2: by the one and only Craig Harper on your website,

941
00:50:50,800 --> 00:50:53,760
Speaker 2: and he was looking forward towards the next thirty years

942
00:50:53,800 --> 00:50:58,160
Speaker 2: of deer and deer habitat management in America, and he

943
00:50:58,280 --> 00:51:01,319
Speaker 2: was kind of thinking about how things have changed over

944
00:51:01,360 --> 00:51:03,160
Speaker 2: the last thirty years and what that might mean for

945
00:51:03,200 --> 00:51:05,440
Speaker 2: the future. And one of the things that he was

946
00:51:05,520 --> 00:51:13,840
Speaker 2: predicting slash. Maybe hoping for was maybe less traditional food

947
00:51:13,920 --> 00:51:18,800
Speaker 2: plots and farming practices for deer and less supplemental feeding

948
00:51:19,320 --> 00:51:23,959
Speaker 2: and more of this kind of holistic ecosystem management for deer,

949
00:51:24,000 --> 00:51:28,840
Speaker 2: that being managing for early successional habitat and old fields

950
00:51:28,880 --> 00:51:32,319
Speaker 2: and timber stand management and all these different things. And

951
00:51:32,360 --> 00:51:36,440
Speaker 2: he was pointing towards how there's benefits to your deer hunting. Obviously,

952
00:51:36,960 --> 00:51:39,960
Speaker 2: it's more cost effective in many cases, and it's better

953
00:51:40,000 --> 00:51:43,359
Speaker 2: for the larger ecosystem and other species in many cases too.

954
00:51:45,400 --> 00:51:49,680
Speaker 2: I'm curious what your thoughts are nick on on the

955
00:51:49,719 --> 00:51:52,839
Speaker 2: future when it comes to deer habitat management and kind

956
00:51:52,840 --> 00:51:54,799
Speaker 2: of the role that we as hunters can play. This

957
00:51:54,840 --> 00:51:57,040
Speaker 2: is something I've spent a lot of time thinking about recently,

958
00:51:57,480 --> 00:52:01,800
Speaker 2: and I just see that there's this this opportunity for

959
00:52:02,200 --> 00:52:07,200
Speaker 2: the deer hunting community to make this really significant impact.

960
00:52:07,360 --> 00:52:10,120
Speaker 2: Like I feel like we are a conservation army that

961
00:52:10,280 --> 00:52:14,480
Speaker 2: has only been just like just barely tapping into our potential.

962
00:52:14,600 --> 00:52:17,360
Speaker 2: We've we've started to see what we can do, but

963
00:52:17,400 --> 00:52:20,960
Speaker 2: there's so much more we could probably be doing. You know,

964
00:52:21,160 --> 00:52:23,239
Speaker 2: this number I've been citing a lot. There's something like

965
00:52:23,280 --> 00:52:25,360
Speaker 2: three hundred and sixty or three hundred and eighty million

966
00:52:25,400 --> 00:52:29,319
Speaker 2: acres of land that are owned or leased primarily for

967
00:52:29,400 --> 00:52:32,239
Speaker 2: hunting in America. A study showed that a handful of

968
00:52:32,280 --> 00:52:35,799
Speaker 2: years ago. So there's this massive swath of America that

969
00:52:35,840 --> 00:52:39,880
Speaker 2: we as hunters have influence over. We could probably be

970
00:52:39,960 --> 00:52:42,840
Speaker 2: doing some spectacular things with that, and in many cases

971
00:52:42,840 --> 00:52:45,880
Speaker 2: we are. There's lots of examples where we are, but

972
00:52:46,000 --> 00:52:48,600
Speaker 2: probably a lot more. So I'm just curious, Nick, if

973
00:52:48,640 --> 00:52:50,520
Speaker 2: you've thought about that at all and what you see,

974
00:52:50,560 --> 00:52:53,919
Speaker 2: you know, as the as the leader of America's deer

975
00:52:54,000 --> 00:52:59,160
Speaker 2: hunting organization, you know what potential there might be for

976
00:52:59,360 --> 00:53:03,000
Speaker 2: we as the deer running community to really influence things

977
00:53:03,040 --> 00:53:03,479
Speaker 2: for the better.

978
00:53:04,880 --> 00:53:06,600
Speaker 3: I suddenly feel a lot of pressure now that you

979
00:53:06,680 --> 00:53:08,719
Speaker 3: just said that the way that you said it.

980
00:53:09,239 --> 00:53:09,680
Speaker 2: Jeez.

981
00:53:10,880 --> 00:53:13,719
Speaker 3: Anyway, I'm want to tease out a couple of things

982
00:53:13,760 --> 00:53:15,560
Speaker 3: that you said there, you know, so we'll go back

983
00:53:15,600 --> 00:53:18,600
Speaker 3: to the Craig Harper article. I'll just say that we're

984
00:53:19,239 --> 00:53:23,880
Speaker 3: we have continued to evolve as an organization. You know,

985
00:53:23,960 --> 00:53:26,000
Speaker 3: back in the earliest days, we talked about things like

986
00:53:26,080 --> 00:53:28,840
Speaker 3: food plots, and you saw some big, beautiful ones that

987
00:53:28,880 --> 00:53:31,160
Speaker 3: are on television, right, and everybody wanted one of these

988
00:53:31,160 --> 00:53:34,680
Speaker 3: made for television food plots. I'm gonna be honest with you.

989
00:53:34,719 --> 00:53:37,040
Speaker 3: I got three or four small plots on my place.

990
00:53:37,080 --> 00:53:38,520
Speaker 3: I like to grow a couple of those and take

991
00:53:38,560 --> 00:53:41,480
Speaker 3: pictures of them and say look at me, right, yeah, exactly.

992
00:53:42,080 --> 00:53:44,319
Speaker 3: But at the end of the day, like yesterday, I

993
00:53:44,400 --> 00:53:47,080
Speaker 3: had so much time available to go out into a project,

994
00:53:47,080 --> 00:53:50,600
Speaker 3: and I took the chainsaw instead. Okay, And so Craig

995
00:53:50,680 --> 00:53:57,720
Speaker 3: is absolutely right. We should be building the longer term habitats,

996
00:53:57,400 --> 00:53:59,719
Speaker 3: not forgetting. I mean, there's definitely a place for food

997
00:53:59,719 --> 00:54:03,480
Speaker 3: plots and that type of thing for sure. However, it's

998
00:54:03,520 --> 00:54:05,439
Speaker 3: the longer term stuff you can do on your land

999
00:54:05,440 --> 00:54:07,959
Speaker 3: that makes it better for all species, which is something

1000
00:54:07,960 --> 00:54:10,440
Speaker 3: we've really tried hard to do here at the NBA,

1001
00:54:10,480 --> 00:54:13,239
Speaker 3: because we do, you know, because deer is in our name,

1002
00:54:13,600 --> 00:54:17,480
Speaker 3: and deer have such a profound impact on habitat, we

1003
00:54:17,560 --> 00:54:20,080
Speaker 3: care about other species as well. We recognize that what

1004
00:54:20,120 --> 00:54:22,400
Speaker 3: we do will help not just deer, but other species.

1005
00:54:22,440 --> 00:54:25,120
Speaker 3: And so if you're doing like a clear cut betting

1006
00:54:25,160 --> 00:54:27,640
Speaker 3: area like I was working on yesterday, it's not just

1007
00:54:27,640 --> 00:54:29,680
Speaker 3: a betting area for deer. That's going to be early

1008
00:54:29,719 --> 00:54:32,319
Speaker 3: successional habitat for the next several years. It's going to

1009
00:54:32,320 --> 00:54:35,719
Speaker 3: be brows, it's going to be nesting ground, nesting bird cover,

1010
00:54:35,880 --> 00:54:38,560
Speaker 3: it's going to be all types of things and so,

1011
00:54:39,400 --> 00:54:43,239
Speaker 3: and it can be cheaper, as Craig also would point out,

1012
00:54:43,640 --> 00:54:45,800
Speaker 3: it's a lot cheaper to do something like old field

1013
00:54:45,840 --> 00:54:48,200
Speaker 3: management that already has tons of things that deer want

1014
00:54:48,200 --> 00:54:49,839
Speaker 3: to eat in it than it is to go out

1015
00:54:49,880 --> 00:54:52,400
Speaker 3: and kill it all and use herbicides and equipment, labor

1016
00:54:52,440 --> 00:54:55,520
Speaker 3: and time to put new seed in the ground. So

1017
00:54:55,600 --> 00:54:57,680
Speaker 3: that's that part of it. The other part of it is, yeah,

1018
00:54:57,680 --> 00:55:00,760
Speaker 3: you're right, Mark, there's no bigger army than deer hunters

1019
00:55:00,840 --> 00:55:04,000
Speaker 3: when it comes to people willing not just buying land.

1020
00:55:04,040 --> 00:55:06,160
Speaker 3: You don't just buy anybody listening to the snows, you

1021
00:55:06,160 --> 00:55:08,359
Speaker 3: don't just buy a piece of land. You could buy

1022
00:55:08,400 --> 00:55:09,960
Speaker 3: a piece of land a deer hunt and then you're

1023
00:55:10,000 --> 00:55:12,640
Speaker 3: just all done. I mean no, that's when the work

1024
00:55:12,680 --> 00:55:16,080
Speaker 3: really starts. All you're doing is buying yourself a lifetime project,

1025
00:55:16,760 --> 00:55:19,480
Speaker 3: and so you have to continually be working at it.

1026
00:55:19,520 --> 00:55:22,600
Speaker 3: And so we have hunters, whether they own the land

1027
00:55:22,680 --> 00:55:26,520
Speaker 3: or whether they're leasing land or whatever. Or volunteering on

1028
00:55:26,560 --> 00:55:31,080
Speaker 3: public land, going out and manipulating habitats like no other hunter.

1029
00:55:31,200 --> 00:55:33,000
Speaker 3: I used to be in the duck world for a while, right,

1030
00:55:33,000 --> 00:55:34,600
Speaker 3: and duck hunters do a lot of stuff too, But

1031
00:55:34,640 --> 00:55:37,520
Speaker 3: a lot of times it's like redirecting water so that

1032
00:55:37,560 --> 00:55:40,120
Speaker 3: they've got water at the right time that has benefit

1033
00:55:40,160 --> 00:55:41,960
Speaker 3: as well. I'm not picking on duck hunters. I'm just

1034
00:55:42,000 --> 00:55:46,080
Speaker 3: saying that deer hunters, in terms of manipulating landscapes, buying land,

1035
00:55:46,120 --> 00:55:51,279
Speaker 3: manipulating private landscapes, or they're an army of people that

1036
00:55:51,320 --> 00:55:53,800
Speaker 3: can make a huge difference. And we're trying very hard

1037
00:55:54,120 --> 00:55:57,640
Speaker 3: to educate people on you you don't want to cut

1038
00:55:57,680 --> 00:56:00,520
Speaker 3: down all your trees and make big five acre monocart

1039
00:56:00,640 --> 00:56:03,359
Speaker 3: culture food plots. There are better ways to do it,

1040
00:56:03,560 --> 00:56:08,040
Speaker 3: better ways for your deer hunting, better ways for other species, frankly,

1041
00:56:08,160 --> 00:56:11,360
Speaker 3: just better ways for the planet and conservation. And so

1042
00:56:11,400 --> 00:56:13,400
Speaker 3: we're trying to be much more holistic in our thinking

1043
00:56:13,440 --> 00:56:13,799
Speaker 3: that way.

1044
00:56:14,600 --> 00:56:18,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, Matt, would you add anything on any of those fronts?

1045
00:56:19,480 --> 00:56:21,759
Speaker 4: You know, as I look back at my career, have

1046
00:56:21,800 --> 00:56:24,359
Speaker 4: been with the organization a long time, I think that

1047
00:56:24,520 --> 00:56:28,759
Speaker 4: is perfectly said that it's this resource you know, not

1048
00:56:28,800 --> 00:56:30,800
Speaker 4: only is it an iconic species that a lot of

1049
00:56:30,800 --> 00:56:33,200
Speaker 4: people care about. You know, a lot of impassioned people

1050
00:56:33,239 --> 00:56:35,319
Speaker 4: care about deer, whether you're a hunter or not. They're

1051
00:56:35,360 --> 00:56:41,120
Speaker 4: just so visible and people align with the image of

1052
00:56:41,120 --> 00:56:44,799
Speaker 4: a white tailed deer. But from a hunter standpoint, I mean,

1053
00:56:44,840 --> 00:56:47,680
Speaker 4: we've talked before about having you know, the majority of

1054
00:56:47,760 --> 00:56:51,560
Speaker 4: hunters are deer hunters, and they they are more educated today.

1055
00:56:51,719 --> 00:56:54,719
Speaker 4: And I as I think about my career in this

1056
00:56:54,920 --> 00:57:00,200
Speaker 4: organization's history, there are a lot of successes in terms

1057
00:57:00,239 --> 00:57:04,920
Speaker 4: of teaching hunters what you know might be right versus wrong,

1058
00:57:05,239 --> 00:57:09,239
Speaker 4: or what would be helpful versus not helpful. And there's

1059
00:57:09,280 --> 00:57:14,920
Speaker 4: some amazing trends out there shifting aid structure. You know

1060
00:57:14,960 --> 00:57:18,320
Speaker 4: that that came through education, not through regulation. There was

1061
00:57:18,400 --> 00:57:22,200
Speaker 4: there's regulations out there and in you know states where

1062
00:57:22,320 --> 00:57:24,920
Speaker 4: states are provinces where they're forcing hunters to do one

1063
00:57:24,920 --> 00:57:28,120
Speaker 4: thing but buy in large. That's an education based campaign

1064
00:57:28,480 --> 00:57:32,440
Speaker 4: that hunters changed what they were doing. Habitat. You know,

1065
00:57:33,000 --> 00:57:36,480
Speaker 4: we have been teaching about habitat management since day one

1066
00:57:36,520 --> 00:57:39,720
Speaker 4: because it's one of the cornerstones of managing deer. And uh,

1067
00:57:39,960 --> 00:57:43,000
Speaker 4: I do see shifts and changes based on Craig's wit

1068
00:57:43,120 --> 00:57:46,440
Speaker 4: you know article that you're talking about, but just in

1069
00:57:46,520 --> 00:57:49,960
Speaker 4: terms of people asking questions and we get, you know,

1070
00:57:50,040 --> 00:57:53,520
Speaker 4: requests on how to do certain things. There's a lot

1071
00:57:53,560 --> 00:57:56,840
Speaker 4: of information out there about different habitat management techniques. But

1072
00:57:57,480 --> 00:58:00,400
Speaker 4: you know, there's a growing trend over the past decade

1073
00:58:00,480 --> 00:58:03,400
Speaker 4: or so of these techniques that we're talking about in

1074
00:58:03,480 --> 00:58:09,240
Speaker 4: terms of managing holistically and managing ecosystems. And when I

1075
00:58:09,400 --> 00:58:13,040
Speaker 4: talk about all of this, do you report data, you know,

1076
00:58:13,160 --> 00:58:15,800
Speaker 4: big issues, the big picture stuff coming down the pike.

1077
00:58:16,320 --> 00:58:19,200
Speaker 4: I generally do have a positive view because I do

1078
00:58:19,240 --> 00:58:25,840
Speaker 4: think that hunters will take action once educated. They hear

1079
00:58:26,160 --> 00:58:29,080
Speaker 4: messages coming from a lot of different places, now, not

1080
00:58:29,240 --> 00:58:33,080
Speaker 4: just NDA. They're hearing it from mass media like yourselves

1081
00:58:33,080 --> 00:58:37,400
Speaker 4: and others. They hear from their state or provincial wildlife agencies.

1082
00:58:37,560 --> 00:58:41,680
Speaker 4: They hear from their friends, you know, and generally the

1083
00:58:41,760 --> 00:58:45,120
Speaker 4: messaging that's coming across is more uniform, although there's there's

1084
00:58:45,240 --> 00:58:48,120
Speaker 4: mixed messaging out there. Of course, you know what's good

1085
00:58:48,200 --> 00:58:51,120
Speaker 4: or bad about certain things. But I do have a

1086
00:58:51,120 --> 00:58:55,400
Speaker 4: positive view that we can change the tide because I've

1087
00:58:55,400 --> 00:58:58,760
Speaker 4: been part of it. We've we've changed hunter's attitudes about things,

1088
00:58:59,320 --> 00:59:02,840
Speaker 4: and I get a little bit in passion myself about

1089
00:59:02,960 --> 00:59:05,320
Speaker 4: you know, hunters need to wake up about this or that.

1090
00:59:05,640 --> 00:59:08,040
Speaker 4: It's because I know we can do it. I've seen it.

1091
00:59:08,960 --> 00:59:13,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, So that's a perfect way to kind of segue

1092
00:59:13,240 --> 00:59:14,800
Speaker 2: to the last thing I want to ask you about.

1093
00:59:15,480 --> 00:59:20,560
Speaker 2: I want you both to imagine a future, let's say

1094
00:59:20,560 --> 00:59:23,520
Speaker 2: twenty years from now, and I'd like you to imagine

1095
00:59:23,560 --> 00:59:28,680
Speaker 2: two different versions. In one version, we have been wildly

1096
00:59:28,760 --> 00:59:36,120
Speaker 2: successful and we are living in a golden age for

1097
00:59:36,240 --> 00:59:41,480
Speaker 2: not just deer hunting, but also the landscape that surrounds

1098
00:59:41,760 --> 00:59:48,120
Speaker 2: deer hunting, wildlife, the natural resources. That's option A. I'd

1099
00:59:48,160 --> 00:59:50,560
Speaker 2: like you to also imagine option B, in which our

1100
00:59:50,600 --> 00:59:53,720
Speaker 2: deer hunting resource and the natural resources and wild world

1101
00:59:53,720 --> 00:59:57,880
Speaker 2: around it have deteriorated, Our hunting opportunities have deteriorated, and

1102
00:59:57,920 --> 01:00:00,040
Speaker 2: we are now looking back on twenty twenty five, I

1103
01:00:00,040 --> 01:00:02,920
Speaker 2: even saying, golly, we had no idea, how good we

1104
01:00:02,960 --> 01:00:08,320
Speaker 2: had it. How do we screw this up? What would

1105
01:00:08,440 --> 01:00:11,680
Speaker 2: lead us to option A and what might lead us

1106
01:00:11,720 --> 01:00:14,320
Speaker 2: to option B if you were to be in that

1107
01:00:14,360 --> 01:00:17,200
Speaker 2: future world. And I'll let Matt go first, and then

1108
01:00:17,280 --> 01:00:20,440
Speaker 2: Nick you can you can close us up, Matt. If

1109
01:00:20,480 --> 01:00:22,280
Speaker 2: option A comes to be true and we are living

1110
01:00:22,280 --> 01:00:26,040
Speaker 2: the golden days and things are great, what got us

1111
01:00:26,040 --> 01:00:28,480
Speaker 2: to that point? And then part two would be then

1112
01:00:28,640 --> 01:00:32,040
Speaker 2: what got us to that dire situation? What would you

1113
01:00:32,320 --> 01:00:33,720
Speaker 2: expect would have happened in that case?

1114
01:00:34,480 --> 01:00:37,680
Speaker 4: That's a great question, you know, Option A. I think

1115
01:00:38,160 --> 01:00:42,440
Speaker 4: we can get there through collaboration. Everybody working in unison

1116
01:00:42,600 --> 01:00:49,520
Speaker 4: towards you know, a single or you know, a uniform feeling.

1117
01:00:49,680 --> 01:00:53,400
Speaker 4: So if we're all messaging certain things around disease management

1118
01:00:53,480 --> 01:00:57,520
Speaker 4: or population management or abbaitat management, and not every but

1119
01:00:57,680 --> 01:01:01,440
Speaker 4: the majority of hunters are working towards that and are

1120
01:01:01,680 --> 01:01:04,880
Speaker 4: hearing the same message come from their state agency and

1121
01:01:04,920 --> 01:01:10,120
Speaker 4: their cousin and you know NDA and meat Eater and

1122
01:01:10,160 --> 01:01:12,240
Speaker 4: Wired to Hunt, and we're all saying the same thing,

1123
01:01:12,720 --> 01:01:16,040
Speaker 4: and they listen and they do it. That's how we

1124
01:01:16,040 --> 01:01:20,360
Speaker 4: get to option Option B is where chaos ensues and

1125
01:01:20,600 --> 01:01:25,880
Speaker 4: people believe things that are counter to what the science says,

1126
01:01:26,200 --> 01:01:28,560
Speaker 4: They are counter to what the right thing to do is.

1127
01:01:29,280 --> 01:01:33,320
Speaker 4: And unfortunately there are mixed messages out there and we

1128
01:01:33,360 --> 01:01:36,680
Speaker 4: need to quell that as much as possible. Option B

1129
01:01:36,840 --> 01:01:41,919
Speaker 4: to me is the dire condition is where people don't

1130
01:01:42,040 --> 01:01:45,440
Speaker 4: value deer anymore the way that we value them today,

1131
01:01:46,280 --> 01:01:49,080
Speaker 4: whether you're a hunter or not, if there is a

1132
01:01:49,120 --> 01:01:52,800
Speaker 4: future where the dire condition is people see deer in

1133
01:01:52,840 --> 01:01:58,400
Speaker 4: a negative way. They're vermin, They're a problem. They're not

1134
01:01:58,560 --> 01:02:02,720
Speaker 4: something we can maybe not just utilize, but they're there

1135
01:02:02,760 --> 01:02:07,440
Speaker 4: for us. They're a valuable natural resource for everybody to enjoy,

1136
01:02:07,560 --> 01:02:11,480
Speaker 4: to look at, to harvest and eat, you know, to

1137
01:02:11,640 --> 01:02:15,480
Speaker 4: just recreate around, and they make our lives better. That

1138
01:02:16,040 --> 01:02:18,720
Speaker 4: is the dire thing that I think would end up happening.

1139
01:02:18,760 --> 01:02:21,640
Speaker 4: And unfortunately, there are things that might get.

1140
01:02:21,560 --> 01:02:22,200
Speaker 2: Us there.

1141
01:02:24,120 --> 01:02:27,800
Speaker 4: Too many deer, them ruining the environment because they eat everything,

1142
01:02:27,880 --> 01:02:34,000
Speaker 4: you know, invasive species issues, disease issues, zoanotic disease issues

1143
01:02:34,040 --> 01:02:39,480
Speaker 4: where we might come down with something, and market hunting

1144
01:02:39,480 --> 01:02:43,360
Speaker 4: where they're just valued as something that might not be

1145
01:02:44,000 --> 01:02:48,040
Speaker 4: but they are. But I believe in us, I believe

1146
01:02:48,120 --> 01:02:51,800
Speaker 4: in society. I mean, as crazy as things are today

1147
01:02:52,040 --> 01:02:56,200
Speaker 4: in twenty twenty five, there are some uniform things that

1148
01:02:56,280 --> 01:02:59,680
Speaker 4: I know that you know, the hunting and conservation community

1149
01:02:59,760 --> 01:03:04,640
Speaker 4: can come together, and I think the people and the

1150
01:03:04,680 --> 01:03:08,840
Speaker 4: systems and the organizations that have the loudest megaphone as

1151
01:03:08,880 --> 01:03:10,880
Speaker 4: long as we're all on the same page and saying

1152
01:03:11,360 --> 01:03:14,560
Speaker 4: the same thing when it comes to these issues, we

1153
01:03:14,640 --> 01:03:17,040
Speaker 4: can get to a that's what I think.

1154
01:03:18,000 --> 01:03:20,720
Speaker 2: Love it, Nick, What are your thoughts on those two?

1155
01:03:22,360 --> 01:03:24,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm glad you made Matt go first. He did

1156
01:03:24,280 --> 01:03:26,480
Speaker 3: such a good job. I can just sort of coast

1157
01:03:26,520 --> 01:03:30,640
Speaker 3: in here. Yeah, I mean, I'll take a little bit

1158
01:03:30,680 --> 01:03:34,120
Speaker 3: different swing of it. Swing at it. We're probably going

1159
01:03:34,160 --> 01:03:36,080
Speaker 3: to say the same thing, maybe just in a different way.

1160
01:03:38,280 --> 01:03:38,760
Speaker 2: We were just.

1161
01:03:38,680 --> 01:03:44,000
Speaker 3: Talking about habitat a little bit ago. And I think

1162
01:03:44,080 --> 01:03:50,240
Speaker 3: if we can accomplish a the sunshine scenario, if people

1163
01:03:50,320 --> 01:03:54,840
Speaker 3: begin to understand that a good quality deer and good

1164
01:03:54,920 --> 01:03:58,920
Speaker 3: quality hunting, a good quality deer are actually a symptom,

1165
01:04:00,120 --> 01:04:02,160
Speaker 3: They're a symptom of something else. There are a symptom

1166
01:04:02,280 --> 01:04:06,760
Speaker 3: of being a good steward of the land and good habitat.

1167
01:04:07,560 --> 01:04:12,479
Speaker 3: And so I think unintended consequence of the earliest days

1168
01:04:12,480 --> 01:04:15,200
Speaker 3: of this organization was I think that the animal became

1169
01:04:16,400 --> 01:04:23,280
Speaker 3: the focus. Not from an organizational standpoint. QTMA from day

1170
01:04:23,320 --> 01:04:25,920
Speaker 3: one talked about like build habitat, YadA, YadA, YadA, but

1171
01:04:25,920 --> 01:04:30,760
Speaker 3: from the outsider perspective myself included when I first heard

1172
01:04:30,800 --> 01:04:32,960
Speaker 3: of the QTMA and this idea of older deer, Like

1173
01:04:33,000 --> 01:04:36,160
Speaker 3: I was so focused on the deer that I failed

1174
01:04:36,200 --> 01:04:39,080
Speaker 3: to understand everything around that deer, and that's what really matters.

1175
01:04:39,120 --> 01:04:42,840
Speaker 3: It's everything around the deer that matters. And so I

1176
01:04:42,880 --> 01:04:46,200
Speaker 3: think that we will continue to educate to people to

1177
01:04:46,480 --> 01:04:49,760
Speaker 3: help bring people around to this idea that good deer

1178
01:04:49,840 --> 01:04:55,480
Speaker 3: are a symptom of good habitat and good stewardship. And

1179
01:04:56,120 --> 01:04:59,320
Speaker 3: I am, like Madam, very optimistic. Hunters have shown forever

1180
01:04:59,680 --> 01:05:01,760
Speaker 3: that they're willing to rise to the occasion and do that.

1181
01:05:01,800 --> 01:05:03,400
Speaker 3: And also that you don't have to you don't have

1182
01:05:03,440 --> 01:05:09,280
Speaker 3: to own land to do this. We've done many projects. Frankly,

1183
01:05:09,360 --> 01:05:11,640
Speaker 3: all of that's work in the Forestry Initiative is all

1184
01:05:11,680 --> 01:05:16,720
Speaker 3: public land. We've done through our branches and personally been

1185
01:05:16,800 --> 01:05:20,640
Speaker 3: part of many mark you as well, you know from

1186
01:05:20,720 --> 01:05:23,080
Speaker 3: from uh You know, all of your great work and

1187
01:05:23,160 --> 01:05:28,280
Speaker 3: messaging is done on land that we all own collectively

1188
01:05:28,320 --> 01:05:30,800
Speaker 3: private their public land. And so you don't have to

1189
01:05:30,840 --> 01:05:32,720
Speaker 3: own land to do it. You just have to say,

1190
01:05:32,760 --> 01:05:36,160
Speaker 3: you know what, I want to be part of what's

1191
01:05:36,200 --> 01:05:39,240
Speaker 3: really at play here, and that's good habitat, good stewardship,

1192
01:05:39,600 --> 01:05:41,720
Speaker 3: and a symptom of that is going to be good

1193
01:05:41,720 --> 01:05:44,880
Speaker 3: deer and good deer hunting. And then the other part

1194
01:05:44,880 --> 01:05:47,240
Speaker 3: I'll touch on more on the uh. You know, if

1195
01:05:47,280 --> 01:05:54,440
Speaker 3: things don't go well, there are sort of negative anti

1196
01:05:54,600 --> 01:05:58,960
Speaker 3: messaging against things like we're talking about there against CWD,

1197
01:05:59,200 --> 01:06:03,080
Speaker 3: about anything that's bad news. There's a segment out there

1198
01:06:03,120 --> 01:06:05,479
Speaker 3: that they want to just downplay it, and it's not real,

1199
01:06:06,000 --> 01:06:09,600
Speaker 3: and it's really sad, and it's really short sighted because

1200
01:06:10,000 --> 01:06:12,880
Speaker 3: like you know what, it might might we might sell

1201
01:06:12,960 --> 01:06:16,680
Speaker 3: less magazines or write less articles, or we might you know,

1202
01:06:16,760 --> 01:06:18,959
Speaker 3: less people might listen to what I have to say

1203
01:06:19,080 --> 01:06:22,040
Speaker 3: because they don't hunt anymore. They're mad about CW. That

1204
01:06:22,160 --> 01:06:27,320
Speaker 3: is so short sighted and so sad in my view,

1205
01:06:27,880 --> 01:06:30,440
Speaker 3: Like we can have all the things. It is plentiful

1206
01:06:30,480 --> 01:06:32,600
Speaker 3: out there we can talk about. We do it. We

1207
01:06:32,640 --> 01:06:34,920
Speaker 3: do it every single day at the National Deer Association.

1208
01:06:35,000 --> 01:06:37,360
Speaker 3: We talk about the stuff that we don't want to

1209
01:06:37,360 --> 01:06:41,080
Speaker 3: talk about necessarily but have to, and we talk about

1210
01:06:41,120 --> 01:06:43,120
Speaker 3: all the fun stuff too that you can do. You

1211
01:06:43,160 --> 01:06:45,080
Speaker 3: can do both, and I would like us all to

1212
01:06:45,120 --> 01:06:48,040
Speaker 3: do both and do both together. It can be tough love,

1213
01:06:48,120 --> 01:06:51,440
Speaker 3: right Like your parent probably shouldn't be your best friend.

1214
01:06:52,400 --> 01:06:52,760
Speaker 4: Okay.

1215
01:06:53,920 --> 01:06:55,920
Speaker 3: If that's the case, there's probably not a whole lot

1216
01:06:55,960 --> 01:06:57,760
Speaker 3: of parenting going on. So I think you can have

1217
01:06:57,840 --> 01:07:00,400
Speaker 3: tough love no matter what platform you have. You know,

1218
01:07:00,440 --> 01:07:03,680
Speaker 3: if you're a writer and you're concerned about selling articles,

1219
01:07:03,720 --> 01:07:05,000
Speaker 3: I think you can sell a heck of a lot

1220
01:07:05,000 --> 01:07:07,480
Speaker 3: of articles being able to talk about all the things

1221
01:07:08,200 --> 01:07:10,440
Speaker 3: and people will still love you and respect you for that.

1222
01:07:11,080 --> 01:07:13,200
Speaker 3: And so I would say that if we start falling

1223
01:07:13,200 --> 01:07:15,240
Speaker 3: into these traps like we don't need to care about

1224
01:07:15,240 --> 01:07:17,920
Speaker 3: CWD or this is all or that. One of that

1225
01:07:17,920 --> 01:07:20,240
Speaker 3: always blows my mind is like this is a big

1226
01:07:20,280 --> 01:07:25,200
Speaker 3: money maker, Like, dude, I'm telling you right now, CWD is.

1227
01:07:25,320 --> 01:07:27,400
Speaker 3: We would be working on far better things if we

1228
01:07:27,400 --> 01:07:31,640
Speaker 3: didn't have to work on that, Okay, And so that's

1229
01:07:31,680 --> 01:07:33,840
Speaker 3: what we want to do. We want to work on

1230
01:07:33,880 --> 01:07:35,560
Speaker 3: the fun things and do the fun things. So it

1231
01:07:35,640 --> 01:07:36,920
Speaker 3: can be tough love sometimes.

1232
01:07:36,960 --> 01:07:37,400
Speaker 2: I get it.

1233
01:07:38,240 --> 01:07:41,680
Speaker 3: We're not always the sexiest, flashiest message. At times. We

1234
01:07:41,720 --> 01:07:44,720
Speaker 3: can be sort of the no fund zone, you know,

1235
01:07:44,760 --> 01:07:46,680
Speaker 3: because we don't always tell people what they want to hear.

1236
01:07:46,800 --> 01:07:48,960
Speaker 3: But I don't think we'd be responsible if we were

1237
01:07:49,000 --> 01:07:51,960
Speaker 3: just you know, being everybody's best friend is a sort

1238
01:07:51,960 --> 01:07:54,880
Speaker 3: of a parent to dear organization, So a little bit

1239
01:07:54,880 --> 01:07:57,360
Speaker 3: of a soapbox rant, but I think your question sort

1240
01:07:57,360 --> 01:07:58,880
Speaker 3: of led me right to that.

1241
01:07:58,800 --> 01:08:05,800
Speaker 2: Point, important, important point to make, and I will you know,

1242
01:08:06,120 --> 01:08:09,520
Speaker 2: as a deer hunter myself who learned a whole heck

1243
01:08:09,560 --> 01:08:12,240
Speaker 2: of a lot from your organization over the last twenty years,

1244
01:08:12,840 --> 01:08:16,040
Speaker 2: I can personally say that while there's been the occasional

1245
01:08:16,120 --> 01:08:17,920
Speaker 2: not so fun topic, I've had a whole hell of

1246
01:08:17,960 --> 01:08:20,920
Speaker 2: a lot of fun along the way too, and much

1247
01:08:20,920 --> 01:08:23,880
Speaker 2: of it has been because of the great work that

1248
01:08:23,880 --> 01:08:26,000
Speaker 2: you guys have been doing, so so thank you for

1249
01:08:26,040 --> 01:08:28,840
Speaker 2: that over the many long years, and thank you for

1250
01:08:29,280 --> 01:08:33,560
Speaker 2: sharing all of this here today. Real quick, Can you

1251
01:08:33,720 --> 01:08:37,400
Speaker 2: Nick give us a quick reminder of where we can

1252
01:08:38,040 --> 01:08:40,880
Speaker 2: connect with the NDA, how we can become a member

1253
01:08:41,280 --> 01:08:43,240
Speaker 2: or see the twenty twenty five Deer Report and.

1254
01:08:43,280 --> 01:08:47,080
Speaker 3: Full Yeah, absolutely deer reports freed everybody. By the way,

1255
01:08:47,120 --> 01:08:49,320
Speaker 3: you can just download that on our website. Just type

1256
01:08:49,360 --> 01:08:54,559
Speaker 3: deer Report in the search Boxdear Association dot com. Whether

1257
01:08:54,600 --> 01:08:56,960
Speaker 3: you become a member or not, that's freed to anybody.

1258
01:08:57,080 --> 01:09:00,120
Speaker 3: We encourage you to check that out. If you were

1259
01:09:00,120 --> 01:09:02,519
Speaker 3: so inclined to become a member, you can also just

1260
01:09:02,640 --> 01:09:04,800
Speaker 3: go to our website and there's a real easy to

1261
01:09:04,840 --> 01:09:06,960
Speaker 3: find join button there. You can join for as little

1262
01:09:07,000 --> 01:09:09,599
Speaker 3: as zero and become just a basic member and get

1263
01:09:09,640 --> 01:09:13,240
Speaker 3: our newsletter every week, or you can become a Premium

1264
01:09:13,240 --> 01:09:16,120
Speaker 3: member you get some other benefits, and you can become

1265
01:09:16,120 --> 01:09:17,600
Speaker 3: a life member too. I got one of those in

1266
01:09:17,680 --> 01:09:20,120
Speaker 3: my inbox over the weekend. I'm looking forward to responding

1267
01:09:20,160 --> 01:09:24,840
Speaker 3: to and so yeah, I mean again talking about symptoms

1268
01:09:24,840 --> 01:09:28,320
Speaker 3: and whatnot. I think us being good stewards of our

1269
01:09:28,360 --> 01:09:31,120
Speaker 3: mission is the most important thing. A symptom of that

1270
01:09:31,240 --> 01:09:32,840
Speaker 3: is we get people that join us and want to

1271
01:09:32,960 --> 01:09:34,760
Speaker 3: do a little bit more for deer hunting than just

1272
01:09:34,760 --> 01:09:37,040
Speaker 3: go out and pull a trigger and release an arrow.

1273
01:09:37,080 --> 01:09:38,720
Speaker 3: So we're going to focus on being really good at

1274
01:09:38,720 --> 01:09:42,439
Speaker 3: our mission and we hope that compels you to want

1275
01:09:42,479 --> 01:09:43,920
Speaker 3: to be part of it in some bigger way.

1276
01:09:45,040 --> 01:09:48,320
Speaker 2: Amazing. Well, I appreciate everything you guys do. I appreciate

1277
01:09:48,360 --> 01:09:53,040
Speaker 2: you being here today and look forward to another chat soon.

1278
01:09:53,840 --> 01:09:55,920
Speaker 3: We appreciate you Mark, thanks for the opportunity.

1279
01:09:56,479 --> 01:09:57,919
Speaker 4: Absolutely Thanks Mark.

1280
01:10:01,080 --> 01:10:03,360
Speaker 2: All right, and that is a wrap. I appreciate you

1281
01:10:03,400 --> 01:10:06,160
Speaker 2: being here with me. Thank you for joining me and

1282
01:10:06,280 --> 01:10:09,439
Speaker 2: being a part of this community until next time, Stay

1283
01:10:10,160 --> 01:10:11,479
Speaker 2: wired to hunt,