Speaker 1: Of the law and Order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.
Speaker 2: We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
Speaker 2: vicious felonies. These episodes are based on These are our stories,
Speaker 2: done done. Yay, that's messed up. An SVU podcast coming
Speaker 2: to you at a normal pace.
Speaker 3: My name is Lisa Traeger.
Speaker 1: And I'm Kara Klank And on this podcast we talk
Speaker 1: SVU true crime and talk to guests. And I'm hot
Speaker 1: off of a trip to New York where I saw
Speaker 1: Lisa and she did my show. And thank you to
Speaker 1: everybody that listens to the pod that came out. It
Speaker 1: was a great turnout. Lisa and all the comics were amazing.
Speaker 1: I was very wild. Was that morning.
Speaker 2: Some was that soul cycle and they're like, I'm coming
Speaker 2: to the show tonight.
Speaker 3: I'm like, and I'll see you there.
Speaker 2: We're really living I don't know, pet lives and in
Speaker 2: a word in front of it, I don't know what
Speaker 2: to say.
Speaker 1: Parallel, parallel, But yeah, it was a fun.
Speaker 3: It was a whirlwind. It was.
Speaker 1: It was a whirlwind. I was in New York and
Speaker 1: then in Indiana and then back in New York and
Speaker 1: then gone and uh, but the entire time I was there,
Speaker 1: all anyone was talking about was the Riod Comedy Festival.
Speaker 1: It was on the tip of everyone's time, the tip
Speaker 1: of everyone's tongue. In my feeds all over the place, the.
Speaker 3: New Roxy Heart, the Riod Comedy Festival.
Speaker 1: It was giving me like parody artwork of it, like
Speaker 1: in my feed of accounts I don't follow. I was like, Okay,
Speaker 1: we get it. You know that I'm interested in this topic.
Speaker 1: But if anybody doesn't know what we're talking about. There's
Speaker 1: a comedy festival in Saudi Arabia, a famously, famously oppressive
Speaker 1: regime that is sponsored by the government, that all these
Speaker 1: comics are doing, and honestly barely any of them surprise
Speaker 1: me except for a couple, and I'm sad about that.
Speaker 2: Thing is if you're a foolier, like whatever, but the
Speaker 2: people that do try to say things like you have
Speaker 2: no leg to stand on. You've lost all credibility, all integrity,
Speaker 2: Like the end of the day, you can't like you
Speaker 2: can't really speak about anything anymore. Like this is something
Speaker 2: that's gonna I think follow them in whole. You know,
Speaker 2: it's like they can't say anything anymore.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean there's queer people going, I'm like, it's
Speaker 1: illegal there, you know, to talk.
Speaker 2: To talk shit about billionaires going fuck you wealth and
Speaker 2: then going to like an active country where there's I mean,
Speaker 2: I don't know, Yeah, it's yeah.
Speaker 1: This comedian Alex Falcone like does these videos. He's big
Speaker 1: on social and he's like he did some video that
Speaker 1: was like if they're gonna pay you for someone's gonna
Speaker 1: pay you for a job that you normally do, like
Speaker 1: twenty times what you normally get paid, that's weird. Like
Speaker 1: that's that's dangerous. Like if you found twenty bucks, He's like,
Speaker 1: if you found twenty bucks on the ground, that's cool.
Speaker 1: If you found twenty thousand dollars in a bag run away,
Speaker 1: you didn't see shit, like you know, that's so you know,
Speaker 1: like it's just kind of like do you I don't
Speaker 1: know the fact. I guess all these people really think
Speaker 1: their talent is worth that much money.
Speaker 2: But well, I also I did convince someone not to go.
Speaker 2: But I know, and that's did I already talk about
Speaker 2: it on here or no, you told me. You told me,
Speaker 2: and I'm very proud of you for doing that. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but they're they're annoyed with it right, So I don't know,
Speaker 2: it's my thing. That's funny is the implication when I
Speaker 2: was went with people, it's like, you wouldn't, you wouldn't,
Speaker 2: and it's like no, I wouldn't, like and a bunch
Speaker 2: of people did say no, So it's not even hypothetical
Speaker 2: about me. It's like a no, people did say no.
Speaker 2: So stop saying everyone would do it. You would do it,
Speaker 2: and that's fine, but it does inform and people are
Speaker 2: allowed to inform opinions about you.
Speaker 3: And if you are doing it.
Speaker 2: For the money, or you're broke, or you know, you
Speaker 2: don't give a fuck, that's fine too, But if you're
Speaker 2: trying to give a fuck, it's kind of you know,
Speaker 2: it looks's no one punk.
Speaker 3: Rock anymore, Like why do I sound like the elderly?
Speaker 1: But I know it's really like I mean, I was
Speaker 1: talking to my husband about today and he was just like,
Speaker 1: everybody's whole thing today is just get that money, get
Speaker 1: the bag, like and no one cares. And I was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's just like disappointing for like two or three of
Speaker 1: the people.
Speaker 2: Most of people, I'm like, I don't do care. A
Speaker 2: lot of people said no and were offered. Yeah, I
Speaker 2: knew about this festival before it was announce at all,
Speaker 2: because I had a friend reach out to me, going,
Speaker 2: can you fucking believe this? And they were pissed and
Speaker 2: they said no, and they these people were doubling their
Speaker 2: offer for.
Speaker 1: Him and had one thing to be like, well, the
Speaker 1: people of Saudi Arabia need comedy. It's like, no, this
Speaker 1: is put on by the government, like this is well,
Speaker 1: that's and there's a list of shit you can't say
Speaker 1: because if you performed for our government, I don't want
Speaker 1: to talk to you, you know what I mean. So yeah,
Speaker 1: because that's what people are saying, like, oh, it's so
Speaker 1: good in America, and it's like it's kind of different
Speaker 1: performing for people and the government, and no one's going
Speaker 1: to perform at a JD vance like event is home,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean?
Speaker 2: Then what a Glorious Bastards is about? Like a show
Speaker 2: for Hitler, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, we
Speaker 2: could all do it, but you either fight or not.
Speaker 2: And it's fine to bet, it's fine to survive whatever
Speaker 2: you have to do to survive, but fuck you and
Speaker 2: we get to judge you for it, and it's a
Speaker 2: stain on your legacy. And it's not saying that I'm
Speaker 2: more or less ethical or immoral. And I do immral
Speaker 2: things all the time, and I've I've compromised my shit
Speaker 2: for stuff. So it's like, I don't think I'm better
Speaker 2: than anybody that's doing it, but this is a stain
Speaker 2: on them. Yeah, yeah, it is what it is. Well,
Speaker 2: I did a double feature. I don't know why, but
Speaker 2: I guess I watched seven in Silence of the Lambs
Speaker 2: while I was, Oh, I was cleaning, That's what I
Speaker 2: was doing, so I had it on in the background.
Speaker 1: I can't believe you watched like a double feature of
Speaker 1: like two of my favorite most terrifying movies.
Speaker 3: They are there was.
Speaker 2: Points where like in seven, the patchy fucked up skin
Speaker 2: and they're like flaking the skin. I was like, I've
Speaker 2: really why didn't I put on Housewives?
Speaker 1: But you had seen had you seen both of these
Speaker 1: movies or this was the first time.
Speaker 3: No, I've seen each one.
Speaker 2: I've probably seen Seven a few more than Silence Lambs,
Speaker 2: but yeah, I've seen them both. Actually, and then because
Speaker 2: I was avoiding cleaning, I did make a list of
Speaker 2: my top one hundred movies.
Speaker 1: Okay, Yeah, is it going to be available for viewing anywhere.
Speaker 2: Do you think anyone would care? I mean I would,
Speaker 2: but I already I think it on your gram. I
Speaker 2: did think of one yesterday, so I have to take
Speaker 2: one off. I've already had to do that twice. But
Speaker 2: that's tough. Yeah, that's well because I just kind of
Speaker 2: did it in a in a haze, like i'd i'd
Speaker 2: want to do a re.
Speaker 1: I think both of those would probably be on my list.
Speaker 1: I mean Silence of the Lambs for sure. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: don't know about Well, that's what inspired me to write
Speaker 1: the list. I was watching Silence of the Lambs well first,
Speaker 1: I was watching both both.
Speaker 3: I was watching both being like, damn, these are good.
Speaker 3: I'm like, this is good.
Speaker 2: This is so fucking good, and I was like, I
Speaker 2: should make a list because it would definitely be on it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, dude, that's like, sorry, it's reminding me. I know,
Speaker 1: we keep talking about AI and getting mad, but it's
Speaker 1: reminding me of this like meme that's been going around
Speaker 1: that I'm almost like, I'm ninety nine percent sure is AI.
Speaker 1: Where it's the box spoiler alert for seven everybody, if
Speaker 1: you haven't seen seven that came out when I was
Speaker 1: fourteen years old. Uh, Like, you know, they open the
Speaker 1: box and you don't ever see what's in the box.
Speaker 1: But in this meme, Gwyneth Paltrow is like in the
Speaker 1: box and she's smiling and she's alive, like she's part
Speaker 1: of the picture and like and Morgan Freeman's standing there
Speaker 1: and Kevin Spacey and Brad Pitt and it's been going
Speaker 1: around everywhere and everyone's like, well, I hate AI, but
Speaker 1: I love that this exists. So I don't know, maybe
Speaker 1: that's one of our pluses.
Speaker 3: I don't know, we've been being fed.
Speaker 2: I'm sure in your algorithm it's like the AI actress.
Speaker 3: You know, the agencies are fo oh.
Speaker 2: My god, the AI actress like the champ thing, like
Speaker 2: we have to fight, we have to fight it. Why
Speaker 2: are we being casual? Someone was like, well, I have
Speaker 2: to make a list of ten under the water see
Speaker 2: animal facts.
Speaker 3: I go, and you need a AI? I go, Are
Speaker 3: you fucking kidding me?
Speaker 2: So?
Speaker 3: I wouldn't waste time. I go, that would take ten seconds.
Speaker 3: I go.
Speaker 2: You would just type in an animal go to fun
Speaker 2: facts and make I'm like, that's what's like, that's what.
Speaker 3: Life is about.
Speaker 2: And I go I can give you fucking facts right now.
Speaker 2: And she was like what, I'm like, how many hearts
Speaker 2: does an octopus have?
Speaker 3: You know what I mean? Like, you know nothing? Is
Speaker 3: the answer?
Speaker 1: Three?
Speaker 3: Yes, it is.
Speaker 2: Okay because we're adults and we should know stuff and
Speaker 2: know how to look for stuff. I've been drunk a
Speaker 2: lot this week, so I have been rampaging. It is
Speaker 2: coming out right now. I have been going off. I've
Speaker 2: been going off. Oh my god, I've been like, I'm
Speaker 2: on the version of almost slapping people upside the head.
Speaker 2: You are a creative, you make money on your brain,
Speaker 2: thoughts and speech, and you're gonna let this take. What
Speaker 2: the fuck are you even thinking it's psychotic?
Speaker 1: It's truly psychotic? Oh my god, yeah I can't. I
Speaker 1: mean we we you guys all know how we feel.
Speaker 1: And then some of you keep writing us being like
Speaker 1: and then there's an AI ad on your podcast. I'm like,
Speaker 1: we're trying to stop those. We don't know how those
Speaker 1: get there. I don't even know what the ads are for.
Speaker 1: We have made our point clear.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're against that. I think gambling, maybe some vitamins.
Speaker 2: We're against some stuff we do.
Speaker 1: We are our friend Bridger host of I said no
Speaker 1: gifts right here on the exactly right network. He I
Speaker 1: just did his Patreon the other day and he was
Speaker 1: telling me. He's like, I think that AI is like
Speaker 1: a scam. I think it's gonna burst. It's gonna be
Speaker 1: like the dot com. It's gonna be like I mean
Speaker 1: chatch Epet's obviously, but just the amount of money and
Speaker 1: surrounded like feels like it's bringing the like the richest
Speaker 1: man in the world right now is like someone you've
Speaker 1: never heard of, who like is I think the CEO
Speaker 1: of like nvideo like that makes AI some sort of AI.
Speaker 1: I don't know what they make, but like some chip
Speaker 1: to make AI. I have no fucking idea, but it's
Speaker 1: bringing a ton of money in and I feel like
Speaker 1: that's all gonna pop and then we'll still have chatchypt
Speaker 1: like we'll still have that stuff.
Speaker 3: But but that's just what life was about.
Speaker 1: The full automation of all of the jobs and AI actresses,
Speaker 1: I'm hoping is like a bubble that's gonna burst.
Speaker 2: If we were doing bet like better things with all
Speaker 2: this gained time we have with this convenience, then it
Speaker 2: could be fine.
Speaker 3: But we're only on our phones.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're scrolling, so just go go research, go buy
Speaker 2: a stamp.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, go buy gloves at the store, Like live a life.
Speaker 3: You are doing nothing. We are doing nothing.
Speaker 2: I am laying in my bed and I'm scrolling like
Speaker 2: we're not doing anything, and that I don't have toilet
Speaker 2: paper right now.
Speaker 3: But I have to go to the store.
Speaker 2: I have to go to the store, but I have
Speaker 2: wet wipes. I don't want anyone to think I'm like
Speaker 2: a dirty bitch. No, no, I also do I have
Speaker 2: to I have to hire someone. Someone wants to put in.
Speaker 2: I have a fucking I have a bid day. I
Speaker 2: think we did an ad for a be day. Someone
Speaker 2: sent me a day. Oh yeah, to shit, we did,
Speaker 2: so she sent and I have it and I want it.
Speaker 1: I have it and I had it installed by a
Speaker 1: person that I hired. Like so it's I'm not selling
Speaker 1: you to do it yourself. And I really like it.
Speaker 1: But I don't think we ever did an ad for them.
Speaker 1: They sent you to us. I don't think we ever
Speaker 1: did an ad like yeah, I mean the persons. But
Speaker 1: here's the ad right now. It's talking about it in
Speaker 1: our opening. Can we also really quickly say thank you
Speaker 1: to So someone sent something to Lisa and I brought
Speaker 1: it to her in New York and she just got
Speaker 1: it this past Sunday. I know you sent it a
Speaker 1: couple of weeks ago and it was meant to be
Speaker 1: a birthday gift, but she just got it at the
Speaker 1: end of September, about a month after her birthday.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was amazing. The luck. The luck la boo boo.
Speaker 2: And I mean, when my you know, Jared Goldstein found out,
Speaker 2: he goes, you got luck, I go, I got luck
Speaker 2: and it she's gorgeous. It's like cotton, candy colors, purple toenails,
Speaker 2: like I love her.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's from a listener named Kevin. That was
Speaker 1: very sweet of you to send that.
Speaker 2: To I've actually been a lot of our girls, you
Speaker 2: know what, And guys, listen, the fact that we don't
Speaker 2: have like a name for our listeners yet after years,
Speaker 2: I know the fact that we're like, wait, we want
Speaker 2: new merch what do we say? I'm like, how do
Speaker 2: we not have more taglines and nicknames? Because I go,
Speaker 2: are not franchised and are not gender heteronormative.
Speaker 1: Well, also we say funny, weird shit all the time,
Speaker 1: But like in one episode, we just don't repeat over
Speaker 1: and over again the same.
Speaker 2: Stuff I think we do. They must they're gonna start,
Speaker 2: they'll tell us right now.
Speaker 1: But like, yeah, if you have an idea, we're really
Speaker 1: trying to drum up new name. We're trying to drum
Speaker 1: up new ideas for like a T shirt or merch
Speaker 1: or something for the for the holidays and beyond.
Speaker 2: So if you have an idea, and I don't wear shirts,
Speaker 2: so if you want something else, tell us. Have we
Speaker 2: ever made scrunchies? Like what do people actually use? And
Speaker 2: we may these doves tell us to make We should
Speaker 2: make a knife. We should make a knife, a knife.
Speaker 2: We should do something for fighting back.
Speaker 1: Oh those things that you carry in your key, in
Speaker 1: your in your wrist when you're when you're walking.
Speaker 3: Okay, what do you guys want the weapon? To say?
Speaker 1: We're gonna create a weapon. We're gonna make a weapon.
Speaker 1: But don't say Dick Wolf baby, because we are not
Speaker 1: allowed to do that. We've talked about it before, but
Speaker 1: people still suggest it every other day. We cannot do
Speaker 1: anything with Dick Wolf's things.
Speaker 3: I saw a.
Speaker 2: Line that like all these got like all these like
Speaker 2: weapons are legal, but anything that women can use to
Speaker 2: protect themselves is illegal.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, but like mace is not.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I got you. That might be my new thing.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna fucking put a bill out JK. Our country
Speaker 2: is burning.
Speaker 1: But oh and also I want to really quickly shout
Speaker 1: out the couple that invited us to their wedding. I
Speaker 1: believe it's in Phoenix. I'm so sorry I left the
Speaker 1: invitation in my house. I believe the wedding is this
Speaker 1: weekend coming up. So we're wishing you and your husband,
Speaker 1: who I believe you set your future husband. You said
Speaker 1: that you got him turned onto the podcast, and we
Speaker 1: appreciate you guys so much, and we're wishing you a
Speaker 1: amazing wedding. Congratulations.
Speaker 3: Hell yeah, that's beautiful.
Speaker 2: Okay. So I'm watching Silence of the Lambs and there's
Speaker 2: a cop. So the scene is they're like at the elevator,
Speaker 2: you know, like he's eaten these guys. We don't know
Speaker 2: where he is, and so there they are, all these
Speaker 2: cops are there looking at the elevator and there's a
Speaker 2: woman that has two lines. Her name is Officer Jacobs,
Speaker 2: and I go, I know that bitch, and she she's
Speaker 2: in Shaken, she shook the baby and Shaken, and she's
Speaker 2: the wife of Bosh in the Chopped Head one Resilience.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I know exactly the actress you're
Speaker 1: talking about.
Speaker 3: Yeah. So her name is Cynthia Eninger.
Speaker 2: And it's these moments where I go, damn, maybe I
Speaker 2: don't know two lot, but I was like, I know her,
Speaker 2: I fucking know her. And it's everywhere. It's literally that
Speaker 2: meme of Miranda Cosgrove.
Speaker 1: I curly like looking at the computer and everybody's like
Speaker 1: me telling you which characters are from King of Queens
Speaker 1: are on whatever, Like you.
Speaker 2: Know, it says she was in Seinfeld the parking garage,
Speaker 2: but it's not popping out to me. It says Michelle.
Speaker 2: So I'll definitely like have to rewatch. That's to rewatch. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I asked because I don't so that's pretty humiliating, but
Speaker 2: you know, I want to be transparent here. Oh my god,
Speaker 2: I watched the premiere episode.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I can't believe we didn't say spoiler.
Speaker 1: If like you are, if you did not watch the
Speaker 1: first episode of season twenty seven, fast forward to a while,
Speaker 1: because we're about this for a minute.
Speaker 4: Some minutes.
Speaker 3: Don't care.
Speaker 1: Some of you don't even still watch the show. But
Speaker 1: the show's still on and they have a female show
Speaker 1: run on it. I'm excited for this season.
Speaker 2: There was no need. I'm fucking pissed. So the episode
Speaker 2: starts and Carrot told me when I saw her, like,
Speaker 2: did you not watch it? I'm not gonna say aything,
Speaker 2: she goes, but you're not gonna like it, and she
Speaker 2: was right. It opens up We're at Cragan's funeral. We're
Speaker 2: at Capita bar funeral. We're at a cop bar and
Speaker 2: there's a sign of Kragan. Dan Florick is not dead,
Speaker 2: like we could have We did not need to do this,
Speaker 2: like the I mean famously one of our first big
Speaker 2: gets on the podcast, obsessed with him.
Speaker 1: He was so sweet. He could have come back for
Speaker 1: like little cameos like I don't understand why kill him?
Speaker 2: And then you think that's bad enough, but you know
Speaker 2: there's a little reunion, you see people whatever.
Speaker 3: Then Finn gets fully beaten.
Speaker 2: The shit out of his gut, like he gets got
Speaker 2: Like there's a couple and they're pretending to fight, but
Speaker 2: he thinks it's a real fight. And then the girl
Speaker 2: like knocks him out, They beat the shit out of him.
Speaker 2: He's busted, he's in the hospital.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So, like if you've ever come to some of our
Speaker 1: earlier live shows, I used to do a super cut
Speaker 1: of all the time Stabler got his ass absolutely kicked.
Speaker 1: Like Stabler has been beaten up, he's had he's been
Speaker 1: like thrown through windows.
Speaker 2: To live a more relaxing lifestyle, we have seen this
Speaker 2: kind We've never seen that with Finn, Like we've never
Speaker 2: been like, oh fuck, no, Finn, Like he was on
Speaker 2: the ground just getting the shit kicked out of him.
Speaker 1: And I didn't like that sandwiched right after Craigan dying
Speaker 1: for no goddamn reason.
Speaker 3: It was Yeah, but then the episode I thought was good.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's my problem is that I liked where the
Speaker 1: tone went after it. To me, it felt like an
Speaker 1: older episode, Like, of course the show is like more
Speaker 1: high def and like shinier than it used to be
Speaker 1: back in like the early seasons. But I liked that
Speaker 1: it was just like a random person reporting their crime
Speaker 1: against them and then we've got to go out there
Speaker 1: and do police work and ask around and see who
Speaker 1: saw what. And then of course it did involve like
Speaker 1: a current issue like it involves ice and stuff like that.
Speaker 1: But it didn't like, it wasn't like the way that
Speaker 1: the last few seasons have been where it's like cartels
Speaker 1: and gangs and the most powerful lifeguard in New York
Speaker 1: and the most powerful soccer player in New York and
Speaker 1: like all these people. You're like, this isn't like real.
Speaker 1: This was like a real person that and like Olivia
Speaker 1: has like her old school connection with the victim.
Speaker 2: It's like the old showrunner was like, oh, people like succession,
Speaker 2: Let's get rich people into SVU like that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, like total cash.
Speaker 1: And this was like a girl that was like the
Speaker 1: victim in this episode, like is in town for a
Speaker 1: job interview, and like Live's talking to her all about
Speaker 1: like how she can get through this and like her
Speaker 1: job and stuff.
Speaker 3: It was cool.
Speaker 1: I liked the vibe of it, and so I hope
Speaker 1: that's like a hallmark of this new director. I just
Speaker 1: feel like, I guess it's like I understand they need
Speaker 1: to make us splash in these episodes. But let me
Speaker 1: also say something that happened was after the beginning scene
Speaker 1: where they all see each other at the funeral. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's it's the cop like Irish wake or whatever. After
Speaker 1: the funeral and Liv walks out to her car, Stablers
Speaker 1: leaning up against her car. They have a little exchange.
Speaker 1: There's a million other ways you can get those two together. Okay,
Speaker 1: they're both working in here. We don't have to kill
Speaker 1: a beloved character to get those two together. But then
Speaker 1: when she gets in her car, he says to her,
Speaker 1: love you, and the Internet is going like I happened
Speaker 1: to be on Reddit honestly checking out comments about Theovonne
Speaker 1: bombing and the Riod Comedy Festival. But I I'm on
Speaker 1: the I have a.
Speaker 2: Theo story too, Okay, I mean not with me, but
Speaker 2: people were not nice to him, and I was like, fuck, yeah,
Speaker 2: New York has a fuck.
Speaker 3: With you, get the fuck out of here.
Speaker 2: I was just I was just happy for my people
Speaker 2: because I usually have to be like confrontational, but people didn't.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm proud of everyone.
Speaker 1: It's like, you're at the fucking Beacon, what a dream
Speaker 1: and you're not memorizing your jokes Like I'm sorry whatever.
Speaker 1: So anyway, so I go on Reddit because I'm reading
Speaker 1: all this other stuff, and the first it knows I
Speaker 1: like su So I'm getting this thread about the love
Speaker 1: you and people are like, they don't say that to
Speaker 1: each other. That means something, and other people were like
Speaker 1: being normal, and we're.
Speaker 2: Like, well, did you see the Maloney interview. He goes
Speaker 2: he improvised that, yes, I saw that, You're welcome.
Speaker 1: Yeah, fuck off. But they kept it in because it's
Speaker 1: like two old friends going love you. He wasn't going
Speaker 1: I'm in love with you, and people are saying that
Speaker 1: on the OC he admits that he's in love with her,
Speaker 1: I have not seen that. If you have an episode
Speaker 1: where Christopher Maloney on the OC admits to being in
Speaker 1: love with Olivia Benson, please to being deeply in love
Speaker 1: with her, not loving her. There's other ways of being
Speaker 1: in love with the romantic love is different than all love,
Speaker 1: and and everybody was just acting like this was But
Speaker 1: I think you could have teased the episode so much
Speaker 1: instead of because I saw articles that were like a
Speaker 1: beloved character dies on SVU and I was like, Okay,
Speaker 1: you could have teased it with like you finally hear
Speaker 1: the two words the words you want to hear between
Speaker 1: Benson and Stable or I mean, like, there's other ways
Speaker 1: you could tease the first episode that's not killing off
Speaker 1: the character. Of an actor who's still living and has
Speaker 1: appeared on the show recently in cameos.
Speaker 2: I don't, I don't. I don't know why we did
Speaker 2: that to Dan Florak. No, And maybe maybe someone will
Speaker 2: will get someone on the line. Yeah, someone on the line.
Speaker 2: Hopefully someone will pick this up.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 2: Wait, I'm going to try to go to the Dune
Speaker 2: Dun Diner experience this weekend. It's it looks cute. It's
Speaker 2: the Law and Order pop up. It's at Rockefeller one
Speaker 2: Rockefeller Plaza. But it's also Taylor's Swift Weekend. The album
Speaker 2: is coming out, so I am pretty swamped. So I'm
Speaker 2: thinking I'm gonna go Sunday, DM me let me know
Speaker 2: what you guys are thinking when you're going. But it's Friday, Saturday,
Speaker 2: Sunday one pm to seven pm Friday and then nine
Speaker 2: am to seven pm Saturday and Sunday. So maybe I'll
Speaker 2: go to Taylor Swift Spin and then go But I
Speaker 2: feel like the lines it's gonna be pandemonium. I feel
Speaker 2: like I have to go Sunday and go an hour before.
Speaker 1: Well, this is this weekend, right and this episode's not
Speaker 1: coming out in to so maybe all of this is moot.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean, never mind, I will tell you
Speaker 1: about it.
Speaker 3: I will be there.
Speaker 2: Maybe I'll see you guys and lol forever. But I'm
Speaker 2: gonna go.
Speaker 3: I'm gonna go. I hope I see you guys there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I hope you're to go.
Speaker 2: No, I'm definitely going. It's just if I'm gonna make Saturday.
Speaker 1: It's just you can listen to the album while you
Speaker 1: wait in line, right or something?
Speaker 2: Or no.
Speaker 1: Well, I'm going to Taylor Swift Soul cycles like they're
Speaker 1: making things around it. Yeah, there's bead making. Yeah, there's rituals.
Speaker 1: I forgot. I forgot I forgot about the religious aspect
Speaker 1: of it.
Speaker 2: But oh but this is too this. I want to
Speaker 2: go to the SVU Diner. But my one friend that
Speaker 2: I feel would come with me, she's going to be
Speaker 2: in London. I don't know who who. I don't know,
Speaker 2: but people like I gotta I gotta figure it out.
Speaker 2: Whoever to go, No, someone will, I'll figure it out.
Speaker 2: But I'd rather go with someone that is going to
Speaker 2: be as excited as into it.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I'm trying to think because I doubt it'll
Speaker 1: be good.
Speaker 2: What's the experience do you actually get to eat there
Speaker 2: or do you just go in partnership with Milk Bar
Speaker 2: that's disgusting and dinner service in New York Multi day
Speaker 2: Eve indulgent diner favorite dishes, get their hands on limited editions,
Speaker 2: squad merchandise, and surround themselves with interactive moments and imagery
Speaker 2: that call back to Law and Order heroes, guest stars,
Speaker 2: and decades worth of cases, leads and clues.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, I can't fucking wait.
Speaker 1: Damn, I can't believe this is the weekend after I'm
Speaker 1: in New York. That's the annoying I know, but.
Speaker 2: I can't go FORRID. So yeah, Saturday, Saturday is an
Speaker 2: I can't fucking wait. I have other stuff, but we
Speaker 2: will talk about it and the post mortem. But it
Speaker 2: is crime related and I have things. Oh okay, all right,
Speaker 2: let's start started. Let's get started on today's episode. But
Speaker 2: before we start, that's messed up Live dot com. You
Speaker 2: can find all Lisa's tour d eights.
Speaker 1: She's gonna be on the road, She's in Europe, she's
Speaker 1: in the US, She's all over the goddamn place. Scroll
Speaker 1: down to Lisa's website and that will take you to
Speaker 1: all the legit links. And yeah, also, while you're there,
Speaker 1: check out our merch shop and buy the dregs of
Speaker 1: what's left because we're gonna get new merch. And then
Speaker 1: send us a merch idea if you have one. We
Speaker 1: are stumped.
Speaker 2: Tell your friends in other countries Amsterdam, Zebbelin, Lunds, in Paris.
Speaker 2: I'm sure you have a friend. You have to have
Speaker 2: a friend in Paris.
Speaker 1: If you don't have a friend in Paris, come on,
Speaker 1: tell your friend in Paris. All right, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't have a friend in Paris. All right, let's
Speaker 1: get started.
Speaker 2: Hey, guys, we're doing the episode Rotten. Season four, episode
Speaker 2: teen came out in January, so a winter Wonderland kind
Speaker 2: of episode, and it starts off with an anxious man
Speaker 2: asking Finn like, what's up? What's raiment? How do I postpond?
Speaker 2: What if I can't do that? And basically Finn kind
Speaker 2: of tells him what's what life's going to be like
Speaker 2: He's going to go to the tombs for one night,
Speaker 2: but if he cannot afford bail, he will go to
Speaker 2: Rikers until trial really fucked up? Mm hmm, but I
Speaker 2: don't ever mind. Some people shouldn't leave jail life is
Speaker 2: so nuanced. But anyways, so Finn cuts him from It
Speaker 2: just fucked up that people are sitting in jail for
Speaker 2: a long time because they can't afford bail, but like
Speaker 2: awful people can leave because they can afford it.
Speaker 1: It's like that shouldn't really be that way.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Finn cuts Finn grabs him from like the precinct cell,
Speaker 2: cuffs him and starts walking him out. And the guy's like, listen,
Speaker 2: if I talk to missus Parks, she's gonna get it,
Speaker 2: and he goes, no, she's actually a pissed But he
Speaker 2: love Sarah and she is pregnant. He wants to marry her.
Speaker 2: But it's like, hey, babe, she was fifteen and you're
Speaker 2: twenty one. So you're going to jail. Well you got
Speaker 2: you got to serve your time and hopefully he'll be
Speaker 2: out in eighteen months.
Speaker 3: But you're a creep.
Speaker 2: And so now we have kind a warden, a jail
Speaker 2: time warden, and his name is Chad L. Coleman, and
Speaker 2: he was a friend of the pod. He was on
Speaker 2: the episode's Spousal Privilege, one of my favorite interviews because
Speaker 2: there was a woman in the background who didn't know
Speaker 2: she was on camera hof and around and he had
Speaker 2: to be like bitch put on pants. So that's like
Speaker 2: a fun memory for all of us. But you know,
Speaker 2: I remember that he was in this episode two thrilled
Speaker 2: to see him again. And he's explaining to a bunch
Speaker 2: of men, don't make trouble. Don't talk to me about
Speaker 2: how you're not guilty. I don't care about police brutality
Speaker 2: or any of your rights. Talk to legal aid. You're
Speaker 2: gonna get fingerprinted, photographed. Cavity searched and assigned a cell.
Speaker 2: Chow is seven Nude and six Lights out, nine thirty.
Speaker 2: Have a nice day. This man's rattled, rattled as fuck,
Speaker 2: but he's cooperating, you know.
Speaker 3: Being quiet.
Speaker 2: He's put in a cell and it's very orange is
Speaker 2: the new black. You know, we're meeting everyone in the cell.
Speaker 2: We have a long haired man and a silk top.
Speaker 2: I didn't know you could kind of mix and match
Speaker 2: in their outfit ways, but you know he's there and
Speaker 2: he's serving cunt. And then there's a gray like gray
Speaker 2: hoodie guy laying on the bottom bunk, and then a bald,
Speaker 2: angry man walks in with our kind of like shaky man,
Speaker 2: and you know, shaky man's trying to interact with bald
Speaker 2: man like it's the real world, and the bald man
Speaker 2: flicks his head and tells him to shut the fuck up,
Speaker 2: and he wants the gray sweatshirt to get off his
Speaker 2: fucking blood, but there's like other available bunks, so you know,
Speaker 2: it's jail stuff. And so then we actually so so
Speaker 2: bald guy throws off gray sweatshirt. There's blood all over
Speaker 2: the bed, and the new guy starts screaming, guard help,
Speaker 2: and everyone's laughing at him. So he's crying and scrunches
Speaker 2: down to the floor. It's quite sad and truly you
Speaker 2: hear just people making fun of him throughout the cells.
Speaker 2: But yeah, maybe there should be a statutory rape jail, Yeah,
Speaker 2: just for I didn't know. So now Benson's on the scene.
Speaker 2: Obviously we're in block H, so you know, she gets
Speaker 2: filled in that the Emmy is with the body and
Speaker 2: one of her coworkers is talking to the cellmates, so
Speaker 2: she gets she gets buzzed in and obviously as she's
Speaker 2: walking everyone's watching her, hooting hollering, rattling their cages.
Speaker 3: You know, Hot Mama coming.
Speaker 2: Through very silence of the layup. Melinda is there on
Speaker 2: the scene. She's in a low pony. Stabler isn't there.
Speaker 2: He's at a ViCAP seminar. He's making nice with the Feds.
Speaker 2: So basically we find out this bloody guy he was
Speaker 2: sodomized with a foreign object. He bled out internally and
Speaker 2: it probably busts his bust his colon, so not good.
Speaker 2: He's been dead about four to five hours tops. And
Speaker 2: now we cut to Finn. He's talking to long hair
Speaker 2: sell mate and he's sassy and he hates Dominicans, but
Speaker 2: he did try to talk to this guy, but you know,
Speaker 2: he's like, they won't say hi, they're Dominican and silky top.
Speaker 2: He's there for knifing his lever, but he claims that
Speaker 2: he got hit first, and then he winks and kisses
Speaker 2: the sky to Finn. Now it's a cell walk and
Speaker 2: talk with Benson and Finn, and he's saying the long
Speaker 2: hair guy did not interact with the dead guy because
Speaker 2: he also hated gay people. But also not many people
Speaker 2: have access, so we're like, is it a Mexican versus
Speaker 2: Dominican thing? So they go to chat with our warden
Speaker 2: friend to get more information, and they're like, you know,
Speaker 2: where any did any Mexicans have access to this dead
Speaker 2: Dominican man? And he goes, yes, Actually, Hector Ramirez went
Speaker 2: to the infirmary and was there while Torres was there
Speaker 2: and their visits overlapped, so Hector is there for murder.
Speaker 2: So you know, it could be a nice first suspect.
Speaker 2: To me, he's confident. I would say, maybe cocky, and
Speaker 2: he sees the cops walk toward him and say, you
Speaker 2: know what, he is funny.
Speaker 3: He goes, what's up, Bacon?
Speaker 2: So that joke really never gets old, and they're always
Speaker 2: really creative with it.
Speaker 3: I think.
Speaker 2: He's not helping them. He just wants to play games,
Speaker 2: you know. Deny, deny, deny. They taught him by being like,
Speaker 2: we heard you love to bend your enemies over.
Speaker 3: What did you use a mop or a broom?
Speaker 2: He goes, no, I went there to get close to
Speaker 2: a nurse, so that's why I was there. I was
Speaker 2: there for a while and I wanted some action. And
Speaker 2: Benson goes, the nurse wouldn't even fucking look at you,
Speaker 2: and he goes, well, if she was by herself, I
Speaker 2: would have raped her, so she wouldn't have a choice,
Speaker 2: and then he bites his lip.
Speaker 3: We go to the nurse.
Speaker 2: She's in pink scrubs and I like that she's keeping
Speaker 2: her jail job fun, you know. And she says I
Speaker 2: knew he was lying and his tooth was fine, and
Speaker 2: he kept harassing me. But okay, but how's this guy dead?
Speaker 2: And she's like, listen, he was vomiting. He had a fever,
Speaker 2: so maybe a flu. I gave him meds and I
Speaker 2: told him he would feel better. But Nathan Duarte and
Speaker 2: intake guard. That's who took him back. And then Torres
Speaker 2: called Nathan mean homophobic names, so maybe Nathan is the
Speaker 2: one who did it. He'd recently been outed, so now
Speaker 2: everyone's taunting him for being gay. So we find out
Speaker 2: that Torres was taken to the shower and there were
Speaker 2: screams coming from down the hallway and he didn't want
Speaker 2: Nathan to touch him. So we have to go talk
Speaker 2: to Nathan and he's like, listen, everyone hates gay people.
Speaker 2: I work with really dumb people, like prison's not nurturing.
Speaker 2: I'm chill. I don't really take any of this personal.
Speaker 2: I've heard worse, but you know, Torres is rude and
Speaker 2: I don't give a shit. And they questioned the shower situation,
Speaker 2: and he goes, yeah, he was covered in puke, he
Speaker 2: had to shower. But he doesn't like what they're implying.
Speaker 2: He goes, because I'm gay, I raped him, and Bensa goes, no,
Speaker 2: you were just like the last person with him.
Speaker 3: But he's pissed.
Speaker 2: He gets stern and says, I didn't touch him, and
Speaker 2: I took him to his cell after he showered. I
Speaker 2: left work at midnight and I went home. Benson wants
Speaker 2: someone to vouch for him, and he does give a name.
Speaker 2: It's Chris Hartford, a legal aid attorney.
Speaker 3: Cool.
Speaker 2: Wonder how they met. Knock knock, it's a woman. There's
Speaker 2: a baby crying. You know, this guy's cheating on his
Speaker 2: wife with this man. So they do the classic like, oh,
Speaker 2: we got to talk to you out here, you know,
Speaker 2: client privilege, client privilege. So he hands the baby to
Speaker 2: his wife and goes, get the fuck out of here.
Speaker 2: I got to talk to these guys. So he's guilty.
Speaker 2: He knows it. He's like, listen, I was with my
Speaker 2: guy from one am to six am. I meet up
Speaker 2: with him when my wife's out of town. Who is
Speaker 2: with the baby. Who's with the baby from one to
Speaker 2: six in the morning.
Speaker 3: Maybe she was.
Speaker 1: Out of town with the baby.
Speaker 3: No month, No, oh, she took the baby on her trip.
Speaker 2: That's fucked up. So she's trying to get a little
Speaker 2: vaca and has to take the baby.
Speaker 3: Visit mom.
Speaker 1: I don't know people, I mean, I guess it's Alisa
Speaker 1: her problems.
Speaker 3: Like husband's cheating on her.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they could have fucked in the house, honestly while
Speaker 2: the baby slipped there. Like okay, So now we're at
Speaker 2: Melinda's house aka the Morgue. Cause of death, wooden splinters
Speaker 2: in the rectum they were in. There was such force
Speaker 2: that there was a hole in the colon. He bled
Speaker 2: out for hours. It did not happen in the tombs.
Speaker 2: He was sick at intake, so it happened before he
Speaker 2: came in, So, you know, basically came in at midnight,
Speaker 2: dead by four. So what's going on? Benson goes, I
Speaker 2: mean a cop at the precinct must have done it.
Speaker 2: So now we're at the Center precinct. We're brainstorming. Craigan's like, fuck,
Speaker 2: you think it's a cop, and it's like, well, he
Speaker 2: was arrested at eight pm and he was sick when
Speaker 2: he got there, so it has to be their resting officers,
Speaker 2: so we go meet them. We got a Les Cooper,
Speaker 2: Randall Grant, and John Royce is the commanding officer, and
Speaker 2: Craigan's like, let me give him a heads up first,
Speaker 2: so they go to the twenty ninth precinct. The bald
Speaker 2: head guy is the guy in charge, John Royce, and
Speaker 2: he's like, yeah, all good, all good. You know, arrested
Speaker 2: eight transpot at eleven thirty, but that's three and a
Speaker 2: half hours. Is that normal? And he goes listen, sometimes
Speaker 2: it gets crazy here. Maybe he resisted arrest. I think
Speaker 2: he assaulted one of my guys. So they're like, who
Speaker 2: did he assault? So we get a name. It's Luke Edmonds.
Speaker 2: He's out the rest of the week for the injuries
Speaker 2: that this man caused him.
Speaker 3: Oh my god.
Speaker 2: So now we are like, okay, so we have Edmunds
Speaker 2: injured by this dude and he's off work. So now
Speaker 2: let's talk to the arresting officers. The two guys. So
Speaker 2: there's straight up cops. He says, Grant is a rookie
Speaker 2: and Cooper gets the job done, which in cop talk
Speaker 2: means a little rough around the edges. So Cooper and
Speaker 2: Grant are on the streets working and they it's drizzling,
Speaker 2: and it's pretty boy. I mean, McGrath looks fucking hot.
Speaker 2: I mean, and I get that he's like a good
Speaker 2: looking man at his own right and everything like that,
Speaker 2: but fuck, does he look good in this season an episode? Yeah,
Speaker 2: McGrath is Cooper. Yeah, So Terry Serpico is McGrath. Also
Speaker 2: in a ton of other episodes. He's like in A
Speaker 2: season six, a season fifteen, he's really done it all
Speaker 2: but I and A season one, but I was like,
Speaker 2: I was hot for teacher, for beat up, I was
Speaker 2: hot for homicide.
Speaker 3: But yeah, so and then the other guy no one
Speaker 3: cares about him.
Speaker 2: So but also Terry Sipercos starts like truly going down
Speaker 2: on this coffee lid. He is licking this coffee cup
Speaker 2: like you can't imagine. And the rookie is like, they've
Speaker 2: arrested this dead guy like four times this month alone,
Speaker 2: like you know, he keeps getting off and Benson goes, well,
Speaker 2: that's frustrating, So did you take him out or what? Like,
Speaker 2: are you mad enough for that? He goes, we did
Speaker 2: everything up by the book. They showed up at a
Speaker 2: street brawl and he was a part of it, and
Speaker 2: so they said that he swung at Edmunds, so they
Speaker 2: had to arrest him. The call came in at seven,
Speaker 2: the booking at eight. Everything quick, there's no hitting. They go,
Speaker 2: we went to the club and there was a street
Speaker 2: barrel happening outside. What do you want us to do?
Speaker 2: So we gotta, you know, check the story. So they
Speaker 2: go chat to the bartender and this is actually a
Speaker 2: really cool, beautiful bar where he says that, like, it
Speaker 2: doesn't matter if the Mexicans and Dominicans all hate each other.
Speaker 3: Even gangsters need a safe place to take a date.
Speaker 2: So this is like a date spot that they put
Speaker 2: down their knives and swords and focus on romance. And
Speaker 2: I love that. So Carlos Torres, he knows him. He
Speaker 2: was here with his girl and he remembers because they
Speaker 2: were celebrating his girl was pregnant, and he says that
Speaker 2: Carlos did not go outside until the uniforms came inside
Speaker 2: and got him. So that's a conflicting story. And they
Speaker 2: said that it was before the street fight. So now
Speaker 2: we're back at the office chatting with Cooper and Grant
Speaker 2: and they're like listen, you obviously had reason to hurt him,
Speaker 2: like the stories don't match. You went and got him,
Speaker 2: like why like, why not just rough him up? Like
Speaker 2: let's say you hate him? Why full ratee murder? And
Speaker 2: Benson is like, it's you know, maybe it just went
Speaker 2: too far and you know it took it went on
Speaker 2: a nasty turn. How do you say, what's that saying
Speaker 2: took a nasty turn? Yeah, that makes sense. And now
Speaker 2: they have to cover for each other.
Speaker 3: Oh my god. I was called in for jury duty but.
Speaker 2: In Chicago, but I'm on the road, so they're switching
Speaker 2: it and it'll be within another three months. And I
Speaker 2: do wonder if if I'm going to be able to
Speaker 2: do it. I really want to. You're going to go
Speaker 2: to Chicago and new jury duty? What if you get picked?
Speaker 2: I mean, I have a home to stay and I'd
Speaker 2: like to be a part of the criminal justice system,
Speaker 2: but it would have.
Speaker 3: To definitely work with my road schedule.
Speaker 2: But there's no fucking way anyone would keep me on
Speaker 2: a jury Yeah, there's no way.
Speaker 3: I believe in justice too much. They don't like that.
Speaker 2: I think even having this podcast, they'd say no, oh
Speaker 2: for sure, Yeah, yeah, they don't. They don't want me.
Speaker 2: I have opinions like, okay, but we're back. Nasty turn.
Speaker 2: Took a nasty turn, and now they have to cover
Speaker 2: for each other. So Benson's like, listen, they didn't have
Speaker 2: time before the arrest or even during, but I think
Speaker 2: they called Edmunds in to like help out. So it
Speaker 2: happened at the precinct, and the duty log does say
Speaker 2: that Edmunds was at the hospital at eight pm for
Speaker 2: a busted head. So did he go back to teach
Speaker 2: him a lesson or did he go home? So like,
Speaker 2: let's figure out what the vibe is at the two
Speaker 2: nine and like, let's get CSU in there.
Speaker 1: The sector car. I think it's their car, so you.
Speaker 2: Know, they're like, let's get CSU down there, we'll search
Speaker 2: the car, we'll do interrogation room, the bathroom's like, let's
Speaker 2: get shit going. And then Benson now is with a
Speaker 2: bruised face Edmunds and he goes, I need my rep
Speaker 2: here if you're trying to put this on me, and
Speaker 2: she goes, no, I just need your account and he's like,
Speaker 2: he goes, it's in the six to one detective and
Speaker 2: she's like really, and he goes, don't fucking play games
Speaker 2: with me. I do this for a living, and she goes, exactly,
Speaker 2: that's why I don't understand why you're giving me a
Speaker 2: hard time, and he goes, my bad, I'm sorry. I'm
Speaker 2: still in pain and I did not mean to snap.
Speaker 2: We love an apologetic guy. And so she asks what
Speaker 2: he thinks happened, and he answers that he got corn
Speaker 2: holes in the tombs. I don't like that. What is that?
Speaker 2: I think it's rape in the butt. Yeah, but I
Speaker 2: don't know why the game is called cornhole. Honestly, I
Speaker 2: don't think corn holes should be talked about. I think
Speaker 2: it should be banned. We should legalize. Yeah, you can't
Speaker 2: say we hate it.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 1: I love playing cornhole, though, I mean I'd be fine
Speaker 1: for the game to be a different name.
Speaker 3: Yeah, why can't it be called bags, bags and boards?
Speaker 1: I want to play bags and boards.
Speaker 3: Yeah, wooden hole. That sound like that better? Oh my god. Okay,
Speaker 3: so we're in the two Benson.
Speaker 2: It's like, oh, well, we didn't release the info about
Speaker 2: the cornholing, so how did you know that's how he died?
Speaker 2: And he's like, come on, cops, gossip, you know that
Speaker 2: and she's like, well, they didn't tell you the whole story,
Speaker 2: so it happened here, not at the tombs. And he goes, well,
Speaker 2: I can't explain that to you because I was hurt
Speaker 2: and I went to the hospital. But he was released
Speaker 2: at eight forty five, and it says that he went home,
Speaker 2: but Benson goes, no, the desk sergeant said you came
Speaker 2: back here, and he goes, yeah, so I stopped at
Speaker 2: my locker, Like what the fuck I went home. Finn
Speaker 2: opens the door and Benson walks out with him, but
Speaker 2: tells Edmunds to call his PBA rep because he needs
Speaker 2: them because it's a black light party, all right. Trail
Speaker 2: of blood all over the stalls on the mop broom.
Speaker 2: It's messy, it's glowing. The murder weapons found is blood everywhere.
Speaker 2: So and it's like, you guys are cops and you
Speaker 2: don't know how to clean off the blood, Like it's
Speaker 2: so fucking crazy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, wait till you hear the real story.
Speaker 2: Oh no, So the guy from the two nine comes in.
Speaker 2: You know, he's bald, and I don't know why I
Speaker 2: keep saying that. Okay, So he's talking to Creagan and
Speaker 2: he says that Edmunds gave a confession and he wants
Speaker 2: to deal. Finn goes, well, what if the people want
Speaker 2: more aka you know, the das and stuff, and he goes, listen,
Speaker 2: the brass wants it quick and quiet, so let's get
Speaker 2: it happening. And Benson's mad because it's like, no, there
Speaker 2: was a Complienxes, we know there was a Complienxes, like
Speaker 2: we have to figure that out. He goes, it doesn't matter.
Speaker 2: Edmunds is confessing. He says he didn't have any help.
Speaker 2: He just wants leniency and he's gonna confess. But Finn
Speaker 2: and Benson are riled up and they want truth and justice.
Speaker 2: They don't want these little deals. So Craigan says, we
Speaker 2: make deals with purps all the fucking time. Benson makes
Speaker 2: a good point cops should be held to a higher standard,
Speaker 2: and this guy had no what a what a what
Speaker 2: a way?
Speaker 3: What is it?
Speaker 1: What an idea? Yeah, a novel, idea, an idea?
Speaker 2: This guy has no time and goes, it's done already
Speaker 2: and the DA has been notified, so shut the fuck up.
Speaker 2: So Benson walks out of the room and we're in
Speaker 2: cement room bars. Edmunds is looking down and he's pretty sad.
Speaker 2: We hear Cabot's voice while the camera stays on this
Speaker 2: sad man, and she wants murder too, and twenty five
Speaker 2: to life. The lawyer's like, okay, that's not like a
Speaker 2: and also a dead gang banger who gives a fuck.
Speaker 2: And the lawyer's like, you know, a jury will be
Speaker 2: on my client's side. He wants man to eight to twelve.
Speaker 2: She goes murder two, twelve to twenty five. He does
Speaker 2: not think this is reasonable. Cabot says, he sodomized someone
Speaker 2: so hard they died. I want double digits. So they
Speaker 2: agreed a man to ten to twenty. I think his
Speaker 2: lawyers should have asked for ten to fifteen because she
Speaker 2: just said double digits. I don't know, I think whatever.
Speaker 2: I don't know what the spread has to be. I
Speaker 2: don't know how they even figure this out. Eight to
Speaker 2: twelve is so different than twelve to twenty five, which
Speaker 2: is different than ten to twenty. I don't know how
Speaker 2: they even figure these spreads out. But and I'm here,
Speaker 2: I think it should be ten to fifteen. No, he
Speaker 2: should serve. So he did murder a man, he's a cop. Well,
Speaker 2: you know, I get it. Yeah, okay, so it's just
Speaker 2: not that good of a deal. So she agrees. Craigan
Speaker 2: and Benson are waiting for her in the spy window
Speaker 2: area and Craigan doesn't like it. She goes, yeah, no,
Speaker 2: one fucking likes it, but our bosses wanted to go
Speaker 2: this way.
Speaker 3: It is what it is.
Speaker 2: Benson just knows Edmunds didn't do it alone, but there
Speaker 2: is no evidence, and she's like, Torres was a homophobic
Speaker 2: gang banger, he would have been kicking and fighting for this, okay,
Speaker 2: Like if you weren't a homo, I think I'd be
Speaker 2: fighting off getting raped even if I wasn't a homophobic
Speaker 2: gang banger.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it doesn't make sense.
Speaker 2: He really didn't want it, like gay people want to
Speaker 2: get raped.
Speaker 3: Like psychotic Benson.
Speaker 2: I get what she's trying to say, though, So she
Speaker 2: is convinced that people had to hold him down and
Speaker 2: whoever held him down is gonna walk and Kevic goes, well,
Speaker 2: let me know it when you figure it out, and
Speaker 2: I'll take the deal away and she walks off. Craigan
Speaker 2: tells Benson that officially the case is closed. She asks
Speaker 2: unofficially he goes work fast and stay under the radar,
Speaker 2: So we got a boy band. Swoop short Benson hairdoo
Speaker 2: off to the races. She goes straight to Melinda and
Speaker 2: she confirms Benson's hypothesis. He's got bruising on both his
Speaker 2: hands and knees and the tile mosaic prints are from
Speaker 2: the precincts bathroom on his body. There's a bruise across
Speaker 2: his shoulder as well, holding him. So let's start dumping
Speaker 2: the phones. What do we get? Fifty five calls between
Speaker 2: Edmunds and Cooper in three days. That's a lot. Yeah, uh,
Speaker 2: fifty that's crazy. Actually, yeah, it's a lot of fucking calls.
Speaker 2: So Craigan is worried if one PP finds out about
Speaker 2: any of this, they'll shut it down, and Benson Infant
Speaker 2: are worried because Benson and Finn are like, no, we know,
Speaker 2: we still need more evidence anyways, Like we can't even
Speaker 2: use the DNA that we find because it could be
Speaker 2: chalked up to like normal arrest contact. So they have
Speaker 2: to keep digging into Edmund's life. So Finn mentions Stephanie
Speaker 2: Grayson there is a lot of calls in the log
Speaker 2: to her as well, so they go visit steph it's
Speaker 2: Amy Landecker, our friend rind of the.
Speaker 1: Pot, what our close friend, Amy Landerger.
Speaker 2: I love her, we loved her, we loved talking to her,
Speaker 2: an inspiration and she knows he's been arrested, but does
Speaker 2: don't really know for what. And they ask how long
Speaker 2: she's known each other, and she explained, since his brother odd,
Speaker 2: is that a foreshadow? Okay, so whatever, never mind? Since
Speaker 2: his brother odied, she's a nurse and she was there
Speaker 2: on the case. He took the death really hard, you know,
Speaker 2: his parents were dead and he basically raised his brother.
Speaker 2: And then they pivot and they ask if like he
Speaker 2: could be taking the heat for somebody and maybe he
Speaker 2: didn't do something, and she looks guilty as hell and
Speaker 2: just SIPs her coffee and walks away. Knowingly, Benson threatens
Speaker 2: to take her downtown. So Amy sits down Amy Landecker,
Speaker 2: and she goes, what's it about this drug dealer? Like,
Speaker 2: why do you guys even care? And Benson goes, what
Speaker 2: drug dealer? You're gonna have to be more specific, you know,
Speaker 2: So she says Vasquez. And we didn't really hear about Vasquez.
Speaker 2: So basically Edmunds wanted to catch Vesquez because he was
Speaker 2: like this piece of shit criminal drug dealer who kept
Speaker 2: slipping through the system. And one day, you know, he
Speaker 2: was tailing him. They busted him with a gram. But
Speaker 2: then he pulled out a knife, so Luke had to
Speaker 2: shoot him and it really messed him up. But then
Speaker 2: she goes but then I gave him a different perspective.
Speaker 2: He's a bad guy, a drug dealer. For God's sake,
Speaker 2: Luke was saving someone else's kid brother. And there's tears
Speaker 2: in her eyes. She is so like convicted in this.
Speaker 2: So now Finn and Benson are outside the apartment, the
Speaker 2: leaves are off the trees. It's layfall, Finn or is
Speaker 2: it January? I said no, it aired in January. It
Speaker 2: aired in January. Yeah, so they did film in the fall.
Speaker 2: Finn closes his flip phone, so satisfying, so cool, and
Speaker 2: he says, she wasn't lying about the story.
Speaker 3: And to me, it's like why would she.
Speaker 2: She gave you a lot of information and like told
Speaker 2: you that he killed somebody, Like why would she make
Speaker 2: that up? It's not like it's making him look better.
Speaker 2: But I think she had the story wrong. So she
Speaker 2: was telling her truth and what she knew. But this
Speaker 2: motherfucker wasn't shot, so his throat was slashed. So Vasquez's
Speaker 2: throat was slashed, but he's telling people he shot him.
Speaker 2: So that doesn't really help Edmunds or connect him to
Speaker 2: more dealers. It doesn't really prove a pattern, Like what
Speaker 2: the fuck are we going to do with this case?
Speaker 2: So Finn goes to Warner to pull matching files and
Speaker 2: see if there's any other cases with the same bruising
Speaker 2: or m O in any and anyway. Benson says, you know,
Speaker 2: I'll meet you. I'll meet you over there.
Speaker 3: She didn't.
Speaker 2: She defies everybody and she goes to the two nine
Speaker 2: and we have svu icon playing a white shirt desktop.
Speaker 2: His name is Bruce Kirkpatrick. He's in three episodes. He's
Speaker 2: the bad guy in season one Stalked and in season
Speaker 2: six Conscience, he's you know, I have a trouble with
Speaker 2: that word. He's a vigilancy. He's a vigilante and she
Speaker 2: wants to look at the duty roster and he gives
Speaker 2: her a hard time, but she schools his ass. He's
Speaker 2: gritting his teeth, but he complies. He's licking his finger
Speaker 2: as he's going through the pages. So we figure out
Speaker 2: that when Vasquez was here or brought it whatever. Edmunds
Speaker 2: and Cooper were partnered that day. So now we head
Speaker 2: over to Cooper's place and he has a Mercedes, so
Speaker 2: Benson goes, wow, nice ride, had you afford that? And
Speaker 2: then he also has a Corvette in the garage. He
Speaker 2: says he has nothing to say about Edmunds. You know,
Speaker 2: Edwind said he's guilty's he pled out, like, what do
Speaker 2: you want? And Benson goes, I don't know, like a
Speaker 2: twenty year sentence might make someone change their mind. Maybe
Speaker 2: they'll say something different, you know, maybe you can tell
Speaker 2: me something about Vasquez's throping slit and not just shot.
Speaker 3: He goes, I don't know street revenge, Like I don't
Speaker 3: fucking know.
Speaker 2: And so they go, oh, so this girl just like
Speaker 2: lied about this hero story and he goes, no, that
Speaker 2: woman is a badge bunny. I'm sure she played it
Speaker 2: all up in her mind, building him up so she
Speaker 2: could fuck a hero cop.
Speaker 3: And I love.
Speaker 1: I mean, I've never heard badge bunny before. That's gonna
Speaker 1: this episode I'm gonna do. I'm gonna be a badge
Speaker 1: bunny for Halloween next year.
Speaker 2: In New York City. You're like, I'm a girl that
Speaker 2: likes to fuck cops. Well, i'll wear I'll dress up.
Speaker 2: I'll just dress as a bunny and with a badge. Okay, yeah,
Speaker 2: yeah that's it. Those will get it, get it that.
Speaker 2: It was fun. Yeah, I like dress. Yeah, I'm gonna
Speaker 2: be a badge bunny. Maybe maybe I'll find one more
Speaker 2: Halloween opportunity. I bought too many costumes this year, so whatever.
Speaker 2: So he's like that she's a whore. She played it
Speaker 2: up in her mind. I don't know what she's talking about, like,
Speaker 2: leave me alone, and he goes, you know what I'm saying,
Speaker 2: and she leans and closed to him and says, if
Speaker 2: I find out that you're a murdering bastard, I'm gonna
Speaker 2: nail your ass.
Speaker 3: You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: Finn is waiting for Benson to return, and he is like, dude,
Speaker 2: you went over to the two nine.
Speaker 3: And he's mad that.
Speaker 2: You know, she wasn't honest with him, but she was like,
Speaker 2: I was just trying to protect you because I'm going
Speaker 2: to get in trouble. And then he lets her know
Speaker 2: that a detective from fraud is waiting for her, so
Speaker 2: she goes, yeah, you know he's living above his means.
Speaker 2: We got to figure it out, and let's see if
Speaker 2: Edmunds did too. But Edmund's no bank role. He lives
Speaker 2: super frugal, little savings, no assets. He's poor. Cooper's wild,
Speaker 2: but all his assets are under his wife's name. But
Speaker 2: he has a property in Boca, He's got cars, he
Speaker 2: has other real estate holdings. But you know, he's honest
Speaker 2: quote unquote on his tax returns because he says, you know,
Speaker 2: they write it off his gambling and so he pays
Speaker 2: his taxes on these like gambling wins. So now they're
Speaker 2: going to try to call all the casinos and see
Speaker 2: if it's even possible to win all that money in
Speaker 2: Atlantic City and how they were able to do that.
Speaker 3: But they are on a time crunch.
Speaker 2: Edmunds is supposed to allocute in two days, so Cooper
Speaker 2: is free. Edmunds is taking the fall. Why Why so
Speaker 2: Benson thinks Edmunds didn't know what Cooper maybe was up to,
Speaker 2: like he was doing it because his brother was an
Speaker 2: addict and maybe didn't realize that Cooper was getting paid.
Speaker 3: Or do we mean that no or yeah?
Speaker 2: Or that Cooper was doing this for money and that's
Speaker 2: how he was able to like afford all these things.
Speaker 2: So the finance fraud guy, I asked Benson, like, what
Speaker 2: do you think is up? And she says, well, I
Speaker 2: think he's getting paid for dead bodies. And Cabot comes in,
Speaker 2: She's pissed. What couldn't wait till tomorrow morning? And she says,
Speaker 2: I need a wire tap on Cooper And you know,
Speaker 2: we think he's getting paid money to killed drug dealers.
Speaker 2: And Edmund's brother was killed by drugs, so it's personal,
Speaker 2: but Cooper all about the cash. And they repeat this
Speaker 2: over and over and over again. So Cabot's like, bitch,
Speaker 2: if I'm waking up a judge, I need solid evidence.
Speaker 3: You know, you're like you're in a crusade.
Speaker 2: And he and she goes, he's a murderer, fuck him,
Speaker 2: And you know, her passion does convince Cabot. So we're
Speaker 2: gonna so we're gonna get some more. We're gonna put
Speaker 2: We're gonna put more into this case. Werner found five
Speaker 2: victims that correspond with the bruising signatures. One was a
Speaker 2: knife thing, one was beaten to death, one was kicked
Speaker 2: to death, and three gunshots. But the common denominator is
Speaker 2: this deep bruising at the throat and they were all
Speaker 2: drug dealers and they were all from the two nine precincts.
Speaker 2: So now we're in Cabot's nice ass office. Oh my god,
Speaker 2: car I didn't tell you. I was at a bar
Speaker 2: or a restaurant. I was at a chop house. But
Speaker 2: the each booth you sat at had your own green
Speaker 2: library lamp Ooh the Tiffany style one. Well Tiffany is
Speaker 2: crystally thought. Oh that's different. Oh the green library one. Yes,
Speaker 2: I know it turned out, Yes, it was different. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you dumb bitch.
Speaker 1: My dad had one of those green library lands when
Speaker 1: I was growing up on his desk.
Speaker 3: That's cool. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So we're at the office. Oh god, we need more.
Speaker 2: We need more, we need more evidence. We need Cooper.
Speaker 2: There's no evidence, we need Edmunds. Is he going to renegotiate.
Speaker 2: Let's go to the prison. So we go to the prison.
Speaker 2: He's in an orange jumpsuit. They show him photos of
Speaker 2: other crime scenes and what's going on, and he's like,
Speaker 2: I just wanted to get my brother's dealer. And they're like, well,
Speaker 2: why didn't you stop? He goes cuz fuck these guys,
Speaker 2: they get great lawyers. They get off. There's no justice.
Speaker 2: Finn goes, if you're doing it for profit, that's not justice,
Speaker 2: and he's confused what profit, And they reveal that Cooper's
Speaker 2: making money. He's shocked. He doesn't believe it. Cabot's like, bro,
Speaker 2: you're down for six counts murder for higher like, no
Speaker 2: parole there. He says, I didn't do it. I made
Speaker 2: no money. I was just cleaning up the streets. And
Speaker 2: he was like, you know, it wasn't just murder for me,
Speaker 2: it was a reckoning. I wanted them off the streets.
Speaker 2: Benson goes, okay, well tell us exactly what went down.
Speaker 2: He says he can't. Benson's like, your partner, your ex
Speaker 2: partner's a dirty cop. You're not, so like, get the
Speaker 2: If you want the needle off the table, you need
Speaker 2: to help us. The way they wheeled the needle, they
Speaker 2: really threatened the needle. So what Cabot need is She goes,
Speaker 2: you know, if we have like a live victim, that
Speaker 2: would be great to corroborate. So there is one Willy Angels,
Speaker 2: he's twenty if he's serving twenty five in sting sing,
Speaker 2: Cooper shot him. He didn't die, but he is in
Speaker 2: a wheelchair now and in prison, and but like, so
Speaker 2: basically he shot him. They planted a drop gun on
Speaker 2: him to like, you know, explain why that they shot him,
Speaker 2: and they testified that Willy shot at them, and the
Speaker 2: jury didn't even blink and that was that. So now
Speaker 2: Benson and Finn kind of don't agree with what needs
Speaker 2: to happen, because Benson's like, we need to get Willy
Speaker 2: out of there, like he's serving more time than he's
Speaker 2: supposed to, and Finn goes, leave him there. We don't
Speaker 2: need these fuck boys getting out of jail like this.
Speaker 2: This is annoying. But like Cabot and Benson are like, yeah,
Speaker 2: but he admitted, admitted, admitted to making things up, and
Speaker 2: he goes, ah, your heart is bleeding all over my shoe,
Speaker 2: and I like that.
Speaker 1: We have to remember that that Finn comes from narcotics,
Speaker 1: so he's seen like all the shit that drug dealers
Speaker 1: you know, do, and how they what like they're like
Speaker 1: he has a personal I think side to this, I know,
Speaker 1: but he also grew up in the neighborhoods where he
Speaker 1: knows some people don't have that choice or like the future,
Speaker 1: so like they're not just to be like, these are
Speaker 1: scum of the earth, let's clean up the streets. Is
Speaker 1: kind of crazy too. Yeah, it's with season four Finn.
Speaker 1: He has not had his evolution yet. Yeah, but they
Speaker 1: go to sing Sing, They go to sing Sing Will.
Speaker 3: He talks. He is lifting weights in the wheelchair. He's
Speaker 3: keeping busy.
Speaker 2: He says, the cops fucked him up and they want
Speaker 2: to know details, and he goes, fuck you, I hate you.
Speaker 2: I hate all of you. And Finn goes, well, whatever,
Speaker 2: you're nothing but a drug dealer. I don't give a shit.
Speaker 2: He goes, well, I'm not anymore. I'm in jail and
Speaker 2: I'm in a wheelchair, so okay, But they show him
Speaker 2: the photos of all the cops and he points to
Speaker 2: the right cops, you know. He points to Vincent Cooper.
Speaker 2: So he's like, am I going to get out of here?
Speaker 2: And they go yeah. He goes, well, I'm going to
Speaker 2: sue the fucking city and he wheels off and Finn
Speaker 2: is grossed out, and then we cut to Edmonds in
Speaker 2: the dark and he's pissed. He's like, you're gonna let
Speaker 2: that low life back on the street. Benson goes yeah,
Speaker 2: and he calls him scum and Benson goes, he still
Speaker 2: doesn't deserve what you did to him, Like, why don't
Speaker 2: you understand that? And so now we find out why
Speaker 2: he owes Cooper so much. A couple of years ago,
Speaker 2: they were answering a domestic and he walked in. He
Speaker 2: never saw the gun, and Cooper jumped in and took
Speaker 2: the like the bullet. Oh no, he took the thirty
Speaker 2: eight out of his hands. So now he's paying him
Speaker 2: back by killing people. So Cooper saved his life, so
Speaker 2: now he's indebted to him for forever. But it's like, yeah,
Speaker 2: but he's doing this for cars and condos and he's
Speaker 2: using you, like get it together. Dramatic music's in the background,
Speaker 2: and she's finally convinced him to testify against Cooper.
Speaker 3: He doesn't want to.
Speaker 2: She's like, fuck the blue wall, and you know, he
Speaker 2: does not have the same loyalty to you as you
Speaker 2: do to him. He used you, he used your dead brother.
Speaker 2: He doesn't give a damn about you. When are you
Speaker 2: gonna have the balls to face that. He's looking down,
Speaker 2: he's saying nothing. And now we cut to Benson getting
Speaker 2: chewed out by Kragan because she defied a direct order
Speaker 2: and she's gonna get ten days of doced pay. But
Speaker 2: it's not like these people, Like what does Benson even
Speaker 2: spend money on? Like her savings must be huge. The
Speaker 2: bitch's not going out to dinner. She's not going out.
Speaker 2: She's not having it like I don't I don't think
Speaker 2: she's had haircut, haircuts and colors, bolliage. You know, she's
Speaker 2: paying for some but and she randomly knows every Prada Laparola,
Speaker 2: like every designer thing. So she's reading Vogue, I guess,
Speaker 2: but she's not actually buying any of that stuff. No,
Speaker 2: you're so right. I forgot about the hair. You know
Speaker 2: she's spent she's dropping hundreds on her hair. But also
Speaker 2: Craigan is mad because now all these drug dealers are
Speaker 2: trying to get out of prison, like so anyone that's
Speaker 2: been busted by these two cops are now like trying
Speaker 2: to reverse the charges and so guilty or not, all
Speaker 2: these people are gonna led the streets. And Benson goes, sure,
Speaker 2: but these are dirty cops, and he goes, but you
Speaker 2: should have kept me in the loop. We've been blindsided
Speaker 2: by press scrutiny. Like fuck the press. I love how
Speaker 2: on the show the cops care about press so much,
Speaker 2: like so fucking much.
Speaker 3: I want to know what real life cops, if they care.
Speaker 1: Or not in New York, I don't know. I don't
Speaker 1: think anybody wants to end up like on the front
Speaker 1: page of the post.
Speaker 2: You know, yeah, Benson says, you know, I did the
Speaker 2: right thing. Craigan says, pick up Cooper. Let's get the
Speaker 2: bastard off the streets. So Benson and Fino get him.
Speaker 2: They rest him first degree murder. His partner tries to
Speaker 2: run up, and Finn goes, relax, rookie, and get a
Speaker 2: lawyer while you're at it. So Cooper gets Trevor Langham
Speaker 2: as his lawyer, Mister mushco Hargate, the personal.
Speaker 1: Laundry person, laundry spokesman.
Speaker 2: Thank you, but the deal's tough life sentence in exchange
Speaker 2: for the man you were working for.
Speaker 3: He goes, I can't do that. I'd be dead.
Speaker 2: She says, your cooperation is the only thing that stands
Speaker 2: between you and the needle, and he wants to take
Speaker 2: his chance with the jury. Benson goes, that's so stupid.
Speaker 2: But Trevor's like, well, you know, ex partner and a
Speaker 2: drug dealer, cool witnesses, Cool witnesses, You got there, capit goes,
Speaker 2: Edmunds gets life, You get life with no parole. He goes, Edmunds,
Speaker 2: that gullible fool, but whatever, he agrees to the deal.
Speaker 2: He gets a yellow note pad and writes down a
Speaker 2: name and who is it? At Hector as Hector, the
Speaker 2: cocky guy we met up top, who is biting his lip.
Speaker 2: Smart move, Benson says to him, get rid of the competition,
Speaker 2: avoid a war by getting a cop to do your
Speaker 2: dirty work. He says, this business is cutthroat. You gotta
Speaker 2: know what you're getting into. She says, well, this is
Speaker 2: one execution I'm going to attend. He's like, stop acting
Speaker 2: like a hero. Death Row is just geography. And for me, mommy,
Speaker 2: she says, you're going to be crying like a baby
Speaker 2: when you take that last walk. He says, what in
Speaker 2: ten to fifteen years, A lot can happen between now
Speaker 2: and then. Witnesses get amnesia, people up and die.
Speaker 3: You never know. Benson's phone rings. Damn it.
Speaker 2: She leaves. He scoffs, We're in another jail. At the
Speaker 2: end of the walk is Edmunds hanging in his cell
Speaker 2: sheets suicide, no note. He just couldn't take it facing
Speaker 2: what he did and leaves, you know, walking after a
Speaker 2: good work done. I hope she gets some wine and
Speaker 2: you know, dick down for the night and that's dick
Speaker 2: old baby.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean she leaves, but like I would still have
Speaker 1: sex with Cooper in the Corvette so hot, what a stud.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I just like I feel like she's bummed at the
Speaker 1: end though, because it's like you can still do all
Speaker 1: this work and like that guy's right, Like if you
Speaker 1: if you're on death row for a long time and
Speaker 1: you have a lot of power, like a lot can happen,
Speaker 1: Like this guy could get away with everything. But at
Speaker 1: least she got some dirty cops off the street. That's
Speaker 1: the thing. It's like these cops, if they have any
Speaker 1: sense of justice, it's like if you get busted doing
Speaker 1: even one bad thing, all your cases come into question.
Speaker 1: This is what happened in the staircase case, like you
Speaker 1: know everything, I actually don't know that one very well.
Speaker 1: The prosecutor was disbarred. The blood spatter analysis guy was uh,
Speaker 1: like you know, lost his license, like ever so many
Speaker 1: people in that case. It turned out like we're doing
Speaker 1: shitty work and then it calls all their other cases
Speaker 1: into question.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 3: So I don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't know if like in that case a bunch
Speaker 1: of other cases ended up getting dismissed or whatever. But
Speaker 1: that does, especially with cops. That's bad news, man.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: But anyway, let's get into the real story. Oh, I'm scared.
Speaker 1: There's two cases. There's two cases, okay. So the first
Speaker 1: case is Abner Louima who August ninth, nineteen ninety seven,
Speaker 1: officers from NYPD's seventieth Precinct, or the seven zero, responded
Speaker 1: to reports of a fight at Club Rendezvous in East Flatbush,
Speaker 1: which is a neighborhood in Brooklyn. Uh Abner Louima, a
Speaker 1: Haitian American man, and others were outside of the club.
Speaker 1: Louima said he was just there with his brother and
Speaker 1: his cousin and he was like stand, he was not
Speaker 1: part of the fight. He had a completely clean record.
Speaker 1: He had never been in trouble with the police.
Speaker 3: Before.
Speaker 1: Four officers show up justin Voltpi, Charles Schwartz, Thomas Bruder,
Speaker 1: and Thomas Weiss. They arrive at the scene. They start
Speaker 1: saying stuff like why do you people come to this country?
Speaker 1: If you can't speak English. They're calling them racial slurs,
Speaker 1: like these are like not good guys, these cops. Louima
Speaker 1: just heard the cops tell someone to shut up. He
Speaker 1: had no idea that anyone was talking to him, and
Speaker 1: then suddenly he was pushed down on the ground and cuffed,
Speaker 1: and Volpi said like, oh no, Louima attacked me, and
Speaker 1: the cops arrested Louima for disorderly conduct, obstructing government administration,
Speaker 1: and resist cigarest. As they brought him in, they beat
Speaker 1: the shit out of him like in the car, like
Speaker 1: using fists, night sticks, police radios. At the station house,
Speaker 1: he was strip searched and put in a holding cell
Speaker 1: until they continued the beating later on. The assault ended
Speaker 1: with Luima being sexually assaulted in the bathroom by the officers,
Speaker 1: exactly like what happened in the episode. Volpi kicked a
Speaker 1: handcuffed Louima in the testicles, and then sodomized him with
Speaker 1: a plunger from the bathroom. Then he jammed it into
Speaker 1: his mouth afterwards and broke a bunch of his teeth.
Speaker 1: This is like really graphic. And then after that it's
Speaker 1: like you were saying, like, what are these idiots like
Speaker 1: not know, like to wipe stuff off. This guy paraded
Speaker 1: through the precinct holding the stick up with blood and
Speaker 1: shit on it, going and telling people I took a
Speaker 1: man down tonight. So he just like was walking around
Speaker 1: showing like I saw other reports where he was like
Speaker 1: smell this, smell this, like there was no hiding it.
Speaker 1: He was like walking around parading to the weaponry.
Speaker 3: Crazy.
Speaker 1: So there was another officer in the bathroom helping with
Speaker 1: the attack, but Luima could not identify which one, and
Speaker 1: this is like a point of contention later in the trial.
Speaker 1: But when they called the ambulance, the cop told Louima,
Speaker 1: if you ever tell anyone, I will kill you and
Speaker 1: your entire family. So he threatens him. So they take
Speaker 1: him to the emergency room department at Coney Island Hospital,
Speaker 1: and the officers brought him in said that his injuries
Speaker 1: were from quote abnormal homosexual activities end quote. This is
Speaker 1: a man who is married with two children. By the way,
Speaker 1: not that he couldn't be having homosexual sex, but we
Speaker 1: know that that's not what this came from. And so
Speaker 1: thank god, a nurse named Maggalie Laurent could tell that
Speaker 1: his injuries were not consistent with consensual sex, and she
Speaker 1: contacted Louisa's family and iab to tell them that she
Speaker 1: suspected he was raped and assaulted while in police custody.
Speaker 1: Louisa spent two months in the hospital. He had serious
Speaker 1: damage to his colon, but he did not die like
Speaker 1: in the episode. He survived. He had serious damage to
Speaker 1: his colon and a punctured bladder and intestinal tears. He
Speaker 1: underwent three surgeries for his injuries. And when this hit
Speaker 1: the news, it went national. People were outraged and like
Speaker 1: on August twenty ninth, which is, you know, about three
Speaker 1: weeks after this event happened, seven thousand, more than seven
Speaker 1: thousand people marched to City Hall and to the seventieth
Speaker 1: precinct where the assault happened, and the precinct was quickly
Speaker 1: named the Plunger Precinct. And this protest was called Day
Speaker 1: of Outrage against Police brutality and harassment. So Brian Figuerot,
Speaker 1: a former ADA and one of Louima's lawyers, said, quote,
Speaker 1: this is not a corruption case, this is a torture case.
Speaker 1: Cops are going to jail end quote. So Volpi was
Speaker 1: charged with several counts in Federal Court of violating Willima's
Speaker 1: civil rights, obstruction of justice, and making false statements to police. Initially,
Speaker 1: he pled not guilty, but he changed his plea to
Speaker 1: guilty halfway through the trial.
Speaker 3: Smart move.
Speaker 1: When you're parading around the fucking murder like hoopsick tack weapons,
Speaker 1: it's the arrogance.
Speaker 2: It's knowing, you know, the blue gang, the biggest gang
Speaker 2: is gonna back. But it's like to parade the shit stick,
Speaker 2: like to not be a little more care.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and he had told people, remember that.
Speaker 2: That he had told people that he had been attacked,
Speaker 2: like he had been hit at the fight when they
Speaker 2: first got there. And he's like, I think I got
Speaker 2: the guy who did it.
Speaker 1: He didn't. It was he admitted finally that Luima was like,
Speaker 1: never the guy who attacked him. This is like a
Speaker 1: guy who was not involved in the fight at all.
Speaker 1: He also confessed to the sodomy, but he said he
Speaker 1: had nothing to do with the damage to his mouth.
Speaker 1: He said he held the stick up to his face,
Speaker 1: but he never put it in his mouth. But it's
Speaker 1: like he had smashed teeth, like he had teeth, like
Speaker 1: his teeth were fucked. So it's like it got in
Speaker 1: his mouth. Somehow, and he also admitted to threatening his
Speaker 1: life and you know if he ever if he talked
Speaker 1: so on December thirteenth of nineteen ninety nine, a couple
Speaker 1: of years later, Volpi is sentenced to thirty years in
Speaker 1: prison without the possibility of parole, as well as a
Speaker 1: five hundred and twenty five dollars fine and restitution in
Speaker 1: the amount of two hundred and seventy seven four hundred
Speaker 1: and ninety five dollars, so such a specific amount. On
Speaker 1: in twenty seventh, two thousand, Charles Schwartz was convicted of
Speaker 1: helping Volpe assault Louima in the bathroom, and he was
Speaker 1: sentenced to fifteen years. And at the time of Schwartz's conviction,
Speaker 1: a lot of questions were raised about whether he could
Speaker 1: receive a fair trial in the highly charged atmosphere, and
Speaker 1: Volpi identified that it was Weiss, not Schwartz, as the
Speaker 1: second man in the bathroom in a recorded interview on
Speaker 1: sixty minutes, which was never brought up in at trial.
Speaker 1: So Schwartz's conviction was overturned by the US Court of
Speaker 1: Appeals for the Second Circuit, saying that he did not
Speaker 1: get a fair trial due to conflict of interest by
Speaker 1: his attorney, and in two thousand and two, Schwartz pleaded
Speaker 1: guilty to a perjury charge for testifying that he did
Speaker 1: not lead Louima to the bathroom, and he was sentenced
Speaker 1: to five years in prison, and he was released to
Speaker 1: a halfway house in February of two thousand and seven,
Speaker 1: and as of twenty nineteen, he works in New York
Speaker 1: City as a carpenter, so he's out there. The other
Speaker 1: three that were brought to trial, which is brewder Weiss
Speaker 1: and Sergeant Michael Blomo, were indicted for trying to cover
Speaker 1: up the assault. On March ninth, two thousand, Weis and
Speaker 1: Bruder were convicted on the charge of conspiracy to obstructive
Speaker 1: federal investigation, but these were reversed on federal appeal in
Speaker 1: two thousand and two for insufficient evidence. BelOMO was found
Speaker 1: not guilty of trying to cover up the beating and
Speaker 1: that of another Haitian immigrant by Vultpi earlier that evening,
Speaker 1: so and Volpi was released from prison. I'm like, what
Speaker 1: happened to? No possibility of parole Like he was sentenced
Speaker 1: in ninety nine, he did twenty four years. He was
Speaker 1: released in April of twenty twenty three, so he got
Speaker 1: out like two years ago, and I don't understand why
Speaker 1: he got like parole so inconsistent.
Speaker 3: I mean, I don't know he served how many twenty years.
Speaker 1: Twenty three, twenty four, twenty three years. Yeah, but you
Speaker 1: know what was crazy too, is that Vulpi was like
Speaker 1: everybody was like, he's so racist, Like he did all
Speaker 1: this stuff out of racism. He had a black girlfriend
Speaker 1: at the time who he was engaged to, and she
Speaker 1: was interviewed. Actually this guy who's wrote some articles that
Speaker 1: are in my research named Mike mcali, I mean.
Speaker 2: Racist trumper that's married to a black woman. Yeah, it happens.
Speaker 2: I guess it's not it's not impossible.
Speaker 1: It's just like this guy Mike mclary, who he actually
Speaker 1: passed away, but he wrote these pieces for The Daily
Speaker 1: News and New York Daily News that won a Pulitzer
Speaker 1: based on this case. So I've included some of those
Speaker 1: in my research. But one of them was an interview
Speaker 1: with the girlfriend where she was like, he couldn't have
Speaker 1: done this, Like he's not racist, Like he wouldn't have
Speaker 1: said those things, he wouldn't have done these things. Like
Speaker 1: if he does, then our whole life together is a lie,
Speaker 1: like I think obviously I don't think they end up
Speaker 1: together because he goes to jail for twenty four years.
Speaker 1: But it was really sad because this woman was like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, who have I been like having this
Speaker 1: life with like So anyway, in a tiny touch of
Speaker 1: silver lining, Abner Louima did settle with the city eight
Speaker 1: point seven five million dollars on July thirtieth of two
Speaker 1: thousand and one, which was the which is the largest
Speaker 1: police brutality settlement in New York City history. I don't
Speaker 1: know if that's still true, but that was true at
Speaker 1: the time. So after his legal fees, he walked with
Speaker 1: about five point eight million. And he's participated in a
Speaker 1: lot of anti police brutality protests with Al Sharpton, notably
Speaker 1: after Sean Bell was killed in November of two thousand
Speaker 1: and six, which was a big one because that was
Speaker 1: like the night of his wedding or the night before
Speaker 1: his wedding, I think. And he also did was at
Speaker 1: a protest that celebrated ten years not celebrated, but you know,
Speaker 1: highlighted ten years anniversary of his attack.
Speaker 3: So he's I hope he's spent the money smart.
Speaker 1: He lives down in Florida now and he's I think
Speaker 1: he's got some real estate and he's you know, living
Speaker 1: his life. But the next case is wild as well.
Speaker 1: This is the case of Manuel Pardo. So this is
Speaker 1: very interesting. It's based on a case of Manuel Pardo
Speaker 1: and then in small part Rolando Garcia as well. But
Speaker 1: I'm going to talk about Manuel first. Manuel Manny Pardo
Speaker 1: Junior was a cop who worked for the Florida Highway
Speaker 1: Patrol in the eighties and then he was fired for
Speaker 1: faking parking tickets. Then he was hired by the Sweetwater
Speaker 1: Police Department, which is in Miami Dade County, and he
Speaker 1: was eventually fired from that job as well in nineteen
Speaker 1: eighty five for lying under oath during a drug smuggling
Speaker 1: trial involving a fellow officer. So I feel like the
Speaker 1: eighties were like the golden age of like dirty cops
Speaker 1: and drugs and all this shit. So after he gets
Speaker 1: fired from you know, his second law enforcement job, he
Speaker 1: gets involved in the drug trade and then in nineteen
Speaker 1: eighty six, he goes on a ninety two day robbery
Speaker 1: and killing spree, killing six men and three women. In
Speaker 1: January of eighty six, he kills Mario Amador and Roberto Alonzo,
Speaker 1: shooting them dead during a robbery. Later that month, he
Speaker 1: kills Michael Millot or Millo. I don't know how you
Speaker 1: say this name, who he believes to be a police informant.
Speaker 1: And Millo was a gunsmith and he had actually given
Speaker 1: Pardo silencers for his guns, and uh no, like he
Speaker 1: bought them from him. I don't think there were pals.
Speaker 1: And then Pardo's partos old partner from when he was
Speaker 1: at Sweetwater. His old cop partner was Rolando Garcia, and
Speaker 1: in this case of Michael Millot's murder, Garcia lures him
Speaker 1: out to the car where Parto's hiding in the back seat.
Speaker 1: When miller gets in the passenger seat, Parto shoots him
Speaker 1: in the head and then gets the car reupholstered. Very
Speaker 1: crime show. So the next month, February of nineteen eighty six,
Speaker 1: Pardo kills Luis Robledo and Upiano Laedo during a robbery
Speaker 1: of their home, and in April. In April of the
Speaker 1: same year, Pardo kills four more people and two separate killings.
Speaker 1: In one it's two women, Ferrick Quintero and Sarah Musa,
Speaker 1: who were killed over an argument about a pond ring
Speaker 1: it was only worth fifty dollars, and allegedly for them
Speaker 1: refusing to buy Parto a VCR was stolen credit cards.
Speaker 1: So this guy is just popping off killing people. Parto
Speaker 1: later claimed that he believed Quintero had marked him for
Speaker 1: death by dialing him number eights on a pager, which
Speaker 1: is a numerical sign for death in Santa Ria, which
Speaker 1: is a religion from Cuba. Sure, but so he's made
Speaker 1: that at like what I know? Like, so you're not
Speaker 1: positive that he's all there if he's killing people based
Speaker 1: on beeper signals, right, Like, I don't know. But then
Speaker 1: the last two murders were Ramon Alvaro and his girlfriend
Speaker 1: Daisy Ricard, who were shot to death because Alvaro had
Speaker 1: failed to show up to several drug deals. So one
Speaker 1: horrible detail is that after he shot Daisy once, his
Speaker 1: gun jammed and then he ended up bludgeoning her to death.
Speaker 1: And in doing the bludgeoning with the gun, the jammed
Speaker 1: round went off and it went into Pardo's foot. So
Speaker 1: that's how they finally got him, is he was caught
Speaker 1: in New York City at a hospital where he'd gone
Speaker 1: to seek treatment for his foot wound. I was, I
Speaker 1: thought all of these murders were happening in Florida, where
Speaker 1: he worked originally, but then they found him at a
Speaker 1: hospital in New York. I don't know, but I was like,
Speaker 1: is this literally where the two term shooting yourself in
Speaker 1: the foot comes from? Like what are you doing?
Speaker 3: Sir?
Speaker 1: Like what an idiot? Like you're murdering someone and you
Speaker 1: shoot yourself in the foot.
Speaker 2: But I also like, if you're gonna could be playing
Speaker 2: this life of crime, you better have an underground doctor
Speaker 2: to do your surgeries.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you can't be going to the hospital.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you got to have a doctor you've got under
Speaker 1: your thumb, because you're going to kill his family or.
Speaker 3: Something if if he doesn't do the work together.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I bet we could teach a class at
Speaker 2: the Learning NX how to get away with crimes, how
Speaker 2: to get.
Speaker 1: Away with murder? Anyway, most of his victims were drug
Speaker 1: dealers or witnesses in drug cases or like of illegal
Speaker 1: drug deals going down, So people that were on the
Speaker 1: fringes of drug Like I don't know if the two
Speaker 1: women were drug dealers, but they were like involved in
Speaker 1: drug you know, activity not that anyone deserves to be murdered,
Speaker 1: but this guy Parto, like he took photos of his victims.
Speaker 1: He wrote about his crimes in his diary, which was
Speaker 1: found eventually along with newspaper clippings. And I just like
Speaker 1: love when these serial killers are like teen girls and
Speaker 1: they have like journals and they're scrap booking, and they're like,
Speaker 1: this is like gotta gotta keep a memory. And Parto
Speaker 1: was linked to the final killings because the bullet in
Speaker 1: his foot gunshot matched the bodies, and then they linked
Speaker 1: to other killings using credit cards he had stolen from
Speaker 1: his victims. So also very stupid to use credit cards
Speaker 1: that you've stolen from your victims.
Speaker 2: That happens more often than you can imagine. It really
Speaker 2: happens all the time. Yeah, they're always using people's credit cards,
Speaker 2: like thinking they're gonna get I really, it doesn't make
Speaker 2: sense to me.
Speaker 1: It's so nuts, Like take the cash and get out
Speaker 1: of there.
Speaker 2: But when police searched part of home, they discovered his
Speaker 2: collection of Nazi memorabilia, which was a little shocking to
Speaker 2: me because I was under the impression, this is his
Speaker 2: name is Manuel Pardo, that he was of some Latino dissent,
Speaker 2: but also like that he practices centaiha and there's a
Speaker 2: mention of Cuban.
Speaker 1: Coffee later that I'll talk about. Like I was just
Speaker 1: like and when you look at him, when you look
Speaker 1: at pictures of him, you're not like, oh, this is
Speaker 1: like a white Aryan man that like loves Nazis, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. But there's plenty of self hating
Speaker 1: people that are part of white supremacist groups and stuff
Speaker 1: like that all the time. So anyway, he went to
Speaker 1: trial in nineteen eighty eight, and prosecutors presented evidence that
Speaker 1: Pardo was a Nazi sympathizer who loved Hitler, loved his work,
Speaker 1: and despite being portrayed as a racist and anti Semite
Speaker 1: by the prosecution, Pardo steadily claimed that his mission was
Speaker 1: just to rid Florida of its drug culture by killing
Speaker 1: active sellers and buyers of drugs. He admitted to his crimes,
Speaker 1: and he said that all nine victims were drug dealers
Speaker 1: who had no right to live and that he was
Speaker 1: doing society at faith at his trial. At his trial,
Speaker 1: he testified in his own defense, which his lawyers advised against,
Speaker 1: saying to jurors, quote I am a soldier. I accomplished
Speaker 1: my mission, and I humbly ask you to give me
Speaker 1: the glory of ending my life and and not send
Speaker 1: me to spend the rest of my days in a
Speaker 1: state prison.
Speaker 3: End quote.
Speaker 1: So, prosecuting attorney David Waxman said, no, Parter was a Parto,
Speaker 1: was a cold blooded killer, and that in his case
Speaker 1: that he was trying to make was that Parto and
Speaker 1: Garcia were just drug dealers and they were trying to
Speaker 1: get rid of their competitors, which is like a little
Speaker 1: bit of what's happening in the episode too. It's like
Speaker 1: one guy like, I don't know, it seems like maybe
Speaker 1: this was like an after the fact thing. He's like, no,
Speaker 1: I was just trying to clean up the streets. But
Speaker 1: it was like, stop with your crusades, no one wants them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like I to think you're the one who it's
Speaker 2: you know, I was about to say it's Joan of
Speaker 2: Arc stuff, but I am team Joan of Arc.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So, Pardo was convicted on all nine a first degree
Speaker 1: murder and sentenced to death. Because we are in Florida,
Speaker 1: Garcia was convicted of four counts of first degree murder
Speaker 1: and sent into death as well. But he got a
Speaker 1: new trial in two thousand and two and he pled
Speaker 1: guilty to four counts of second degree murder, got twenty
Speaker 1: five years, got out after twenty in September of two
Speaker 1: thousand and two, and he's probably back on the police
Speaker 1: force in Florida, to be honest, Like it's Florida. He's
Speaker 1: probably a cop right now. Pardo was eventually executed on
Speaker 1: December eleventh, twenty twelve, by.
Speaker 2: Legal they'll let him do it if someone's asked. They
Speaker 2: gave him what he wanted, you give him the opposite. Yeah,
Speaker 2: they gave him what he wanted. But he was he
Speaker 2: was on death row for twenty four years. During this time,
Speaker 2: he was nicknamed the death row Romeo because he would correspond.
Speaker 2: He would penpal with all these women, and he got
Speaker 2: a lot of them to send him money. So his
Speaker 2: lawyers did try to block the lethal injection by arguing
Speaker 2: that he had mental illness, but nobody intervened. It ended
Speaker 2: up happening, and reporters that came to his execution could
Speaker 2: actually not hear his final statement because of a malfunction
Speaker 2: in the death chamber sound system.
Speaker 1: So yeah, there's some you know that they had tech.
Speaker 1: They had tech difficulties during his execution. I know you
Speaker 1: like to hear about last meals sometimes, so.
Speaker 2: His last well, I so now I want to hear
Speaker 2: about the technical difficulties of penalty community.
Speaker 3: I don't know, my god.
Speaker 1: So his last meal was rice, red beans, roasted pork, plantains, avocado, tomatoes,
Speaker 1: and olive oil. For dessert, pumpkin pie, eggnog and Cuban coffee.
Speaker 2: The eggnog is a little unhappy. I don't want anything
Speaker 2: that he picked. Yeah, yeah, that's not for me.
Speaker 1: But up under Department of Corrections rules, I read, the
Speaker 1: meal's ingredients, at least in Florida have to cost forty
Speaker 1: dollars or less, be available locally and made in the
Speaker 1: prison kitchen. So you're not allowed to like order a
Speaker 1: steak from Morton's or whatever. You know, it's not like
Speaker 1: an unlimited thing, and they have to just make it
Speaker 1: in the prison kitchen. So I don't know how great
Speaker 1: it's going to be, even if it's your favorite meal.
Speaker 2: Oh they put in a little more effort for someone's
Speaker 2: last meal.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would hope. But and then it turns out
Speaker 1: I read one thing that said that my Manuel Pardo
Speaker 1: has been referred to as the real life Dexter. And
Speaker 1: when I say has been referred to, I mean I
Speaker 1: found two articles about it, and one one is from
Speaker 1: AskMen dot com. So lol. But first of all, I
Speaker 1: just wanted to go over it. It's not going to
Speaker 1: take too much time, and it's funny. First of all,
Speaker 1: they said, there's a resemblance.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 1: If you're in the doc and you can see where
Speaker 1: I hyperlinked the word picture if you can click on
Speaker 1: that and please tell me if you think there's a
Speaker 1: resemblance between Dexter Morgan and this man. Oh, I mean
Speaker 1: like physically.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're like, well, there's a resemblance physically. I'm like no,
Speaker 2: but okay, check this picture. Wow, look at you hyperlinking there.
Speaker 2: He looks more like Pugsley from Adam's Family.
Speaker 1: Yeah. They point out that Jeff Lindsay, who is the
Speaker 1: guy who wrote Darkly Dreaming Dexter and all the following
Speaker 1: Dexter books, that that the show is based on, that
Speaker 1: he lived in Miami his whole life, including the late
Speaker 1: eighties when this Parto case was like huge in the news,
Speaker 1: especially in Miami.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 1: So also, this guy's name is Jeff Lindsay and Dexter's
Speaker 1: name is Jim Lindsay when he goes back to Iron Lake.
Speaker 1: So interesting. But also one of the other coincidences they
Speaker 1: think is a big coincidence is that Manuel Pardo kind
Speaker 1: of sounds like Miguel Prado, which is Jimmy Smith's character
Speaker 1: in season three.
Speaker 2: All Right, it's a bit of a stretch. It's a
Speaker 2: bit it's a bit of a stretch. He started the rumor.
Speaker 1: Well, askman dot com brought in a French serial killer expert. Okay,
Speaker 1: a French named stefan Bourg.
Speaker 3: So we let people murder. Yeah, what is life about
Speaker 3: without murder?
Speaker 1: Stefan Burg or whatever, how you say this guy's name
Speaker 1: said quote, Dexter Morgan has this ritual where he lays
Speaker 1: out the photos of bad guys he wants to kill,
Speaker 1: like on his computer, Manny Pardo, he would put the
Speaker 1: pictures up of people he wanted to kill in his apartment.
Speaker 1: That's like not a similarity. That's like a lot of
Speaker 1: different serial killers do that. But really, but and it said,
Speaker 1: I think a lot of serial killers they find like
Speaker 1: photos of people that they were targeting.
Speaker 2: Oh no, Dexter like made them look at them before
Speaker 2: he killed them, so they saw what their crimes were,
Speaker 2: so he knew what they were being murdered for.
Speaker 1: I think this is different. This is like they're just
Speaker 1: talking about how Dexter, like, you know, find gets a
Speaker 1: profile of people that he wants to kill, like and
Speaker 1: then this guy hangs up pictures so it's not that
Speaker 1: like and then to continue the quote, he goes and
Speaker 1: like Dexter, he would retain these keepsakes. While Dexter had
Speaker 1: his blood slides, Parto would keep the ashes of the
Speaker 1: cartridges used to kill his victims in an urn which
Speaker 1: represented the souls of his victims rotting in hell. I
Speaker 1: did not That's the end of the quote. I did
Speaker 1: not find that information anywhere. But I don't know if
Speaker 1: maybe this French expert has this information about the urn
Speaker 1: and like bullet casings or ashes of bullet casings. I
Speaker 1: don't even know what he's talking about. But basically they're
Speaker 1: comparing them because they're like they both have a code,
Speaker 1: even though I think Pardo's code is like not real
Speaker 1: and was an afterthought. They both have one young child
Speaker 1: and then they take mementos and allegedly they're twins, but
Speaker 1: I don't think it's I don't think it's a real theory.
Speaker 1: I just thought it was like fun to mention because
Speaker 1: we're in the we're in the throes of a Dexter
Speaker 1: time right now. But when I was reading about this,
Speaker 1: it was like the last thing I read, and I
Speaker 1: was like, what, Liz is gonna love this, But.
Speaker 3: I am no.
Speaker 2: The Miami of it all is interesting and maybe hearing
Speaker 2: about it, but this guy seems very religion like I
Speaker 2: am the hero, I am being told to do this.
Speaker 2: I'm reading like Dexter didn't have that holier than that. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you know Dex's he's plagued by this.
Speaker 1: I think it's so crazy too that he was just
Speaker 1: like out there killing people for like three months and
Speaker 1: they didn't find him until he shot himself in his
Speaker 1: own foot, Like how long would it have kept going?
Speaker 1: Like pretty wild anyway.
Speaker 2: But that's I mean, I it sucks people were murdered,
Speaker 2: but you know, no rape, that's like, that's positive.
Speaker 1: That's positive. Although in Abner Louima's case there was yeah, bad,
Speaker 1: yeah case, but you know, we got.
Speaker 3: Where we can.
Speaker 1: I hope that getting the biggest civil suit ever hurt
Speaker 1: the NYPD and made his life a little bit tolerable
Speaker 1: after what happened to him. But let's uh, we've got
Speaker 1: a great guest, so let's get to the guests. Our
Speaker 1: guest today, if you haven't figured it out yet, we're
Speaker 1: so excited is an actor who has had leading roles
Speaker 1: on shows like Army Wives and The Inspectors. But you
Speaker 1: also know him as five different characters on laudern SVU,
Speaker 1: including the ever agitated Chief Tom McGrath, the aggressive Boss.
Speaker 1: But you know today is a different character, the coffee
Speaker 1: lid licking officer Les Cooper. Please enjoy our conversation with
Speaker 1: the iconic Terry Serpico. It's such a pleasure to have you.
Speaker 1: But also, I'm like scared I'm about to get yelled at.
Speaker 4: I know, I'm afraid I'm gonna yell at myself.
Speaker 2: You know, it must be fun to play McGrath. I mean,
Speaker 2: or are people mad at you in the streets?
Speaker 3: Do people?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 6: Yeah, people that were a little pissed off at me
Speaker 6: sometimes for being so mean to Olivia, you know, But
Speaker 6: I've had that throughout my career where people would come
Speaker 6: up to me and give me a shit for being
Speaker 6: mean to characters that that were beloved and that that
Speaker 6: meant something to them, and I just I meant nothing
Speaker 6: other than I was the antagonist in their world.
Speaker 1: Well, first of all, you're like one of the most
Speaker 1: recurring people on this You you do four episodes as
Speaker 1: different characters before you come back.
Speaker 3: As a raph.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so like we've already covered on our podcast,
Speaker 1: like at least one other episode that you've been in. Well,
Speaker 1: I wanted to ask, first of all, because you said
Speaker 1: people come up to you on the streets and are
Speaker 1: mad at you. Do you mostly play kind of like
Speaker 1: jerks or would you say it's like fifty to fifty?
Speaker 1: What would you say the percentages of you? Because on
Speaker 1: SVU you've played a couple jerks and then a victim
Speaker 1: and then a big jerk. So what like career wise?
Speaker 1: What's people just?
Speaker 4: People just don't like me. They just come up and
Speaker 4: yell at me. But like I just had that kind
Speaker 4: of face. I guess I know.
Speaker 6: No, when I played Colonel Shertwood on Army Wives, Yeah,
Speaker 6: I had people come up to me off and give me,
Speaker 6: give me shit for being mean to Denise or putting
Speaker 6: her on a sex schedule or demanding you know that
Speaker 6: she behave like an officer's wife.
Speaker 3: Wait, I got to watch army wives.
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I've had people come and shake their
Speaker 6: fingers in my face.
Speaker 4: But don't you don't you talk to me that way?
Speaker 4: Don't you have put on a sex schedule? You know?
Speaker 4: And then and uh, and with McGrath, yeah, it was it.
Speaker 6: Was often somebody like, you know, you're you're you're such
Speaker 6: a great character, but you're so mean.
Speaker 4: You're so mean to Olivia? Why are you so mean
Speaker 4: to Olivia? Every episode? It's like, I'm just pissed off?
Speaker 1: And so would you say? That's like more though, what
Speaker 1: you usually get cast for, like meaner guys or have
Speaker 1: you played I haven't everything you've ever done, but I
Speaker 1: feel like most of what I've seen you've done, you
Speaker 1: are like a stern and sort of yelly kind of guy,
Speaker 1: which is not how you appear to be in real life.
Speaker 4: Thanks.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I I I have most definitely played that type
Speaker 6: of character throughout my career. I have that kind of
Speaker 6: I guess, command presence. Yeah, you know, so, I've played
Speaker 6: a lot of soldiers, a lot of cops, a lot of.
Speaker 4: Authoritarian type figures and and uh, I do have a
Speaker 4: tendency to be that guy that comes in yells at
Speaker 4: the young bucks to go do their jobs, and then
Speaker 4: gets back in the big black car.
Speaker 2: And drives away. A crime will just have happened. And
Speaker 2: he's like, the presses outside figure this out.
Speaker 3: I'm like, just happened.
Speaker 4: I want to rest. Yeah, I don't care. It's I
Speaker 4: ran rough shot over so much procedure and and the
Speaker 4: NYPD protocols and just correct law enforcement. I'm like, I
Speaker 4: don't care, I just want Yeah.
Speaker 3: So fun, it's so fun.
Speaker 2: But this did you any chance you rewatched this episode?
Speaker 3: Rotten?
Speaker 1: No, you do you remember anything about it?
Speaker 4: Rotten?
Speaker 1: Yeah, you did it about twenty two years ago. I'm
Speaker 1: sure you remember.
Speaker 4: Oh god, was that was that?
Speaker 1: What did I?
Speaker 4: I didn't raper, but I said, no, no, no.
Speaker 1: You're murdering drug dealer. Now that was the first episode
Speaker 1: you did. You're thinking of season one when you did
Speaker 1: an episode you did this one. Yes, this episode is
Speaker 1: obviously want to talk all about your McGrath stuff, but
Speaker 1: we like talking to people about the early stuff as well.
Speaker 1: And Rotten, you're playing this dirty cop which named Les Cooper,
Speaker 1: and I remember that. Yeah, And I I was thinking,
Speaker 1: it's very interesting that you're playing a dirty cop. And
Speaker 1: your last name is Cerproco, which is sort of like
Speaker 1: synonymous with calling out. And did you know that the
Speaker 1: Internet gets confused and things that your Cerproco's son. Yes,
Speaker 1: so when you Google you, it's like says that you're
Speaker 1: his child.
Speaker 4: And I'm like, I think so my dad is Frank Serpico.
Speaker 6: Was Frank the same name, different Frank my brother as well,
Speaker 6: So there were there were Frank Serpicos all over the place.
Speaker 6: In fact, I'm we've got to be related to the
Speaker 6: more famous Frank Serpico, although not when you asked my dad,
Speaker 6: he was no means more famous than my dad in
Speaker 6: his mind. My dad was a career soldier, Okay, I
Speaker 6: retired to full colonel in the regular Army, and he
Speaker 6: was a hard ass army officer pretty much, and you know,
Speaker 6: he softened quite a bit after he retired. But so
Speaker 6: the command presence that I get cast a playoff and
Speaker 6: comes naturally. I grew up with it.
Speaker 1: And you ended up playing a military guy on SVU
Speaker 1: as well, and that in the episode Military Justice.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I was. I was a Coastguard. Yeah, coast Guard,
Speaker 4: which is the Armed Forces.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, God, I did a I auditioned like twelve
Speaker 5: times before I got my first booking on any of
Speaker 5: the Law and Order franchise at the time.
Speaker 6: I think my first one was Criminal Intent and it
Speaker 6: was this the non speaking part where I'm playing a
Speaker 6: hitman who's gonna who's collecting his bag of tricks and
Speaker 6: leaving the room. But I auditioned like twelve so it
Speaker 6: was like my sacrificial lamb. I figured, you know, I'm
Speaker 6: not going to book this, So that's the one I'm
Speaker 6: not going to book. Let's just go do it. Move
Speaker 6: on to the others. And then finally I started booking,
Speaker 6: and then yeah, I did. I did a lot of episodes.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then they never stopped booking.
Speaker 4: You really the episode we're talking about, though, what rotten?
Speaker 4: There's this there's this scene in there, one of my
Speaker 4: first scenes with Marishka, where my partner hands me a
Speaker 4: cup of coffee. We're standing on the street.
Speaker 2: The only question I wanted to really ask you about
Speaker 2: this episode? Thank god you remember it? You licking the
Speaker 2: coffee lid.
Speaker 4: I don't know, I mean, don't, don't. Doesn't everybody do that.
Speaker 4: It's like, you know, you've lift it up and it's
Speaker 4: like there's like coffee there there's like and I did that,
Speaker 4: and Mariska like after the tape, she's like, oh my god,
Speaker 4: did you just lick your coffee cup lid?
Speaker 1: And I was like, yeah, I've probably seen this episode
Speaker 1: ten times. I've never clocked that that's something that Lisa
Speaker 1: would notice. And she noticed it and was like, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna ask about this. I never thought you would remember.
Speaker 3: And I had like this was that direction? Was that written?
Speaker 1: It looks very natural?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 3: So natural.
Speaker 4: But I've never been as spontaneous since. And I'm still
Speaker 4: chasing that dragon like.
Speaker 2: Such a good character choice. I don't know, but okay, natural.
Speaker 2: I'm so glad you remember that. That's like, that's why
Speaker 2: I asked if you watched this episode, because I was like.
Speaker 3: You might not remember this coffee moment, but you did well.
Speaker 1: Like the McGrath episodes are like so like the McGrath
Speaker 1: episodes are like, you know, you're not always the main focus,
Speaker 1: and like this one you're sort of a focus. And
Speaker 1: then the one episode where your daughter is victimized when
Speaker 1: you're McGrath, Unfortunately it's not based on a true crime,
Speaker 1: and that's kind of how we do our podcast. So
Speaker 1: we didn't focus on that episode, but like, you know,
Speaker 1: we're going to talk about your whole tenure. Did you
Speaker 1: like what you So you finally got cast, but you
Speaker 1: got cast on SVU in season one, you're in the
Speaker 1: episode You're in an episode called Closure. Then you do
Speaker 1: US season four, season six, season fifteen, and then you
Speaker 1: come back for twenty two through twenty five. What have
Speaker 1: you noticed any like changes on the show since like
Speaker 1: you started, when you really have like a vantage point
Speaker 1: of seeing the show grow over like a quarter of
Speaker 1: a century.
Speaker 4: No, I've been pretty much unconscious my entire Yeah, pretty much.
Speaker 6: When I first started doing this, I was like I
Speaker 6: was in high school and I was doing the plays
Speaker 6: in school.
Speaker 3: And then high school roles.
Speaker 6: I hadn't done anything. I was just I was just
Speaker 6: a jock, you know. I mean, if I had a ball,
Speaker 6: I was out there and playing with it.
Speaker 5: Uh.
Speaker 4: And I went to see the musical in my freshman
Speaker 4: year of high school, and I thought it was how
Speaker 4: to Succeed in Business without really trying.
Speaker 6: And I thought, wow, that looks great. They're having a
Speaker 6: great time and there's cute girls and the leotards and
Speaker 6: great parties and you know, so I'm gonna do that.
Speaker 6: So next the next year, I auditioned and I got
Speaker 6: the roll of Snoopy and You're a good man, Charlie.
Speaker 6: But yeah, so I was kind of up to my neck.
Speaker 6: And then in the subsequent years, uh, you know, organized
Speaker 6: sports kind of went by the wayside as I devoted
Speaker 6: more of my time to acting and dancing. I danced
Speaker 6: ballet for a couple of years, and I was doing
Speaker 6: choreography and doing said building, doing you know everything. I
Speaker 6: got sucked in. I'd found my tribe. And then I
Speaker 6: was just I just started looking for theater training programs.
Speaker 6: I didn't conscientiously say, oh geez, I want to be
Speaker 6: an actor. I was just like, oh, I guess I'm
Speaker 6: doing this. And then I got out of Sunny Purchase
Speaker 6: and I was like, well, I guess I'm going to
Speaker 6: New York.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 6: I you know, I was lucky enough to have an
Speaker 6: agent pretty early on for at least a little while.
Speaker 4: So I was like, Okay, I guess I'm doing this.
Speaker 6: And I went and I got a survival job ten
Speaker 6: and Barr and I attended bar at the Rodeo Bar
Speaker 6: for twenty two years.
Speaker 1: That's so crazy.
Speaker 3: I first I went.
Speaker 6: Looking I got the job, and I didn't give up
Speaker 6: the job until I was a series regular on Army Wise.
Speaker 1: I grew up like right outside of New York City,
Speaker 1: and I one of my first like trips into the
Speaker 1: city that I can remember as like a more sentient
Speaker 1: person was like when I was in sixth grade, my
Speaker 1: parents took me to see Secret Garden with my best
Speaker 1: friend on Broadway and we went to Rodeo Bar and
Speaker 1: got food and well, I kept the little plastic monkeys
Speaker 1: and like there were these little plastic like charms that
Speaker 1: they put on like the glasses that I kept forever.
Speaker 1: I was like, these are from a bar in New
Speaker 1: York City. Like I thought they were so cool. And
Speaker 1: then I saw in your Wikipedia that you used to
Speaker 1: bartend at Rodeo, and I was like, I wonder if
Speaker 1: this man like served my parents or drink when I
Speaker 1: was like sixth grader.
Speaker 4: Probably did. Your dad was rushing to the bar while
Speaker 4: nobody was looking at.
Speaker 1: But yeah, Rodeo was like forever, that was like an institution.
Speaker 1: It's gone now though, right, uh it is.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's now.
Speaker 6: It's called the Gem Saloon and it's They've done a
Speaker 6: beautiful job renovating it, but yeah, we were there.
Speaker 4: I was there for twenty two years.
Speaker 3: And you have such a long career.
Speaker 2: You've been working for so long and so many credits,
Speaker 2: and that's while that you were attending bar the whole
Speaker 2: time too.
Speaker 4: If you want to call it a career, you go
Speaker 4: right in. Yeah, I've been fortunate enough to uh book
Speaker 4: a lot of roofing jobs. Basically, I'm like an acting roofer.
Speaker 4: I don't know. I just I come here, I do
Speaker 4: the job, and then I kind of But you.
Speaker 1: Have like eighty four credits. I mean you've been You've
Speaker 1: been regular on many shows. This is not like a hobby.
Speaker 6: I've been recurring on many shows. Yeah, a series regular
Speaker 6: once on Army Wives. I was heavy recurring.
Speaker 1: Really because this other show you did like one hundred
Speaker 1: episodes of some show called The inc.
Speaker 4: The Inspectors. Yeah, The Inspectors.
Speaker 1: Yeah I was.
Speaker 4: I was a series regular.
Speaker 2: I'm like, I got your IMDb right in front of me, Terry,
Speaker 2: I'm going to call you out if you're going to be.
Speaker 6: And I directed several episodes of that as well. Oh yeah,
Speaker 6: I was nominated for a Daytime Emmy for that show.
Speaker 1: Can I ask you about you? And like Marishka like
Speaker 1: you are in your three seasons as McGrath, you have
Speaker 1: you are just constantly screaming at her.
Speaker 3: And you know, like and she keeps proving you wrong.
Speaker 3: She is correct every single time. I don't her stand
Speaker 3: this guy got a word?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yes, you know, but like when you guys
Speaker 2: when they like one pp is breathing down my neck
Speaker 2: when they cut, are.
Speaker 1: You guys like joking with each other and stuff?
Speaker 6: And like absolutely, I mean Mariska most definitely, uh sets
Speaker 6: the tone. It's her show that it's it's we're all
Speaker 6: we're all living in her world there, and she's she
Speaker 6: sets a beautiful tone there because she works really hard.
Speaker 6: She cares very deeply about the material. She's very professional
Speaker 6: and loves to play, loves to to find other ways
Speaker 6: and that all the various ways that this material is
Speaker 6: going to make sense, and is adamant that it tracks
Speaker 6: obviously as a producer and you know, doing the show
Speaker 6: for as long as she has, you know, it's it's
Speaker 6: it's got to make sense. And she loves to keep
Speaker 6: it light on set. Yeah, it's when it's time to work,
Speaker 6: it's time to work, but there's always time to laugh.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Chris McGrath is such a dick, and he's he's
Speaker 1: in a long line of other dicks, like I mean,
Speaker 1: Peter Gallagher's character came before you, who was like always
Speaker 1: before him.
Speaker 3: Yeah, online of men who don't trust Benson, who.
Speaker 1: Don't trust Benson even though she's been leading this squad
Speaker 1: for twenty something years.
Speaker 6: They have the same objectives, they just have different ways
Speaker 6: of going about yea, I have. You know, McGrath has
Speaker 6: an awful lot of political hoops he has to jump through.
Speaker 6: And yeah, I mean there were there were times I
Speaker 6: certainly compromised her investigation, but that's uh, that's that's TV.
Speaker 2: Yeah. But then you know, he starts therapy. He listens
Speaker 2: to his daughters a little right at the very growth growth.
Speaker 1: As soon as these men grow, they leave the show
Speaker 1: as soon as they have the growth.
Speaker 4: I should I should have seen her. I said, no,
Speaker 4: I'm not going to do that.
Speaker 6: Yeah, David David Garziano, who is running the show at
Speaker 6: the time, you know, calls me. He says, look, I'm
Speaker 6: not writing you off, and it's like, oh, here it comes.
Speaker 6: But you know you're gonna pull a gun on your
Speaker 6: neighbor and lose your job. And then you're gonna end
Speaker 6: up being like the happiest, like just regular old homicide
Speaker 6: detective on the NYPD.
Speaker 4: And well that never panned down.
Speaker 2: So hey, they could always bring you back. They could
Speaker 2: for an old Yeah you don't, you didn't die, I.
Speaker 4: Didn't go to jail.
Speaker 1: You're also pretty shitty to Garland. To the guy who
Speaker 1: plays Garland, I wrote down him, I see failure written
Speaker 1: all over you.
Speaker 4: Pretty well.
Speaker 1: They they he seemed like a nice guy. I don't
Speaker 1: know why you were so mad at him.
Speaker 4: I wasn't. I wasn't, but they, yeah, there was.
Speaker 6: There was a decision had way up the flagpole, and
Speaker 6: it came to me just to be the one that
Speaker 6: that said things like that to him. I felt bad, though,
Speaker 6: because you know, it was like I ended up basically
Speaker 6: replacing that actor. And you know, in fact, I ended
Speaker 6: up replacing another actor because he got COVID just before
Speaker 6: he was due to shoot as McGrath.
Speaker 3: Oh really, it to me?
Speaker 4: Yeah? Chance? What is Chance's last name? Chance?
Speaker 3: Wow?
Speaker 4: You even he's been on the show for for many
Speaker 4: many times?
Speaker 3: To Chance, Gosh, Chance, Kelly Chance Slaughter.
Speaker 4: I'm sorry, Chance, Kelly Chance, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, wait, this guy was gonna be McGrath.
Speaker 4: Was going to be a graph and it's it's my
Speaker 4: understanding that I don't see it. He was slated to
Speaker 4: do McGraph.
Speaker 6: Yeah, he got COVID and couldn't do it all that,
Speaker 6: and uh, my agent, my agent calls me and I'm like,
Speaker 6: standing there in my garden up and beacon. That's what
Speaker 6: I did during COVID was I doing the brand new
Speaker 6: garden in the backyard.
Speaker 4: So it's no, I don't have a garden, but I'm
Speaker 4: standing in my garden. My agents like, where are you?
Speaker 6: Because I was going back and forth to Charleston at
Speaker 6: that point, so I'm in my garden.
Speaker 4: He says, no, what's state? I said, I'm here in
Speaker 4: New York. So well, can you can you be down
Speaker 4: in the peer sixty two to COVID test today or
Speaker 4: like in an hour? And I was like no, but
Speaker 4: I can be down there in like three hours. Okay,
Speaker 4: well do that and then I started the next day.
Speaker 2: Wow, yeah, he's well, he's in the same as view
Speaker 2: where you're wearing the aviators the boxing Tommy Baker's artist
Speaker 2: fight play.
Speaker 1: Oh so you guys actually cross paths.
Speaker 4: That was like the ball and they thrown because they
Speaker 4: you know, they felt bad. I guess that he had
Speaker 4: to give up the Migrat.
Speaker 6: And it was only supposed to have been a few episodes,
Speaker 6: and it just turned into.
Speaker 1: Yeah, more and more reasons.
Speaker 4: Yeah, just great.
Speaker 6: I'm happy to have been a part of this juggernaut
Speaker 6: in order to be a part of this this really
Speaker 6: wonderful show that does great things in terms of giving
Speaker 6: voice to people that have been victimized that may not
Speaker 6: otherwise have that voice or.
Speaker 4: Feel as though they've achieved justice for themselves. At least
Speaker 4: they can vicariously through SVU. I think that's wicked important.
Speaker 3: Beautifully said we feel that about this show.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think it's great. Absolutely.
Speaker 1: This is a insane question and you're probably not going
Speaker 1: to know the answer, but I'm going to ask you.
Speaker 1: Your character's name is Tommy McGrath. There are on this
Speaker 1: show throughout the twenty six seasons, there are dozens of
Speaker 1: characters named Tom or Tommy. One of our listeners went
Speaker 1: through and there is literally one to two in every season.
Speaker 1: There are dozens wow of characters named Tom or Tommy.
Speaker 1: And I was just wondering if you add any intel, like,
Speaker 1: is that the name of Dick Wolf's dog, Like are
Speaker 1: there's so many Tommy's and Tom's on the show.
Speaker 4: It was his. It was his slid when he was
Speaker 4: a child. It was just a little snow slid.
Speaker 6: Said said Tommy, I have no idea.
Speaker 1: And then so one of your first another show Lisa
Speaker 1: Loves is OZ and you did to that was like
Speaker 1: one of your first jobs.
Speaker 2: I did watch that in my childhood. It's pretty fucked up.
Speaker 4: But that is that. That probably explains a lot. I mean,
Speaker 4: I don't know you, but I'm pretty fucked up.
Speaker 2: I'm really fucking I really wanted to for the Killers.
Speaker 2: And so when we got HBO, I mean that was
Speaker 2: that was it? Because then you kept it was Maloney's
Speaker 2: I'd ever seen in television.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, well it's the craziest thing that most people
Speaker 4: had seen on Tovison. Yeah, it was.
Speaker 6: It was astoundingly cutting edge for for television. Was a genius. Yeah,
Speaker 6: Maloney was on. In fact, Chris Maloney managed the Rodeo
Speaker 6: Bar when I was there. No, he was a manager
Speaker 6: for for like a hot minute and just fucking hated
Speaker 6: it because he wanted to be an actor.
Speaker 4: Three he is now, you know, he wanted to.
Speaker 6: Be there and he was really close and it was
Speaker 6: just like that frustrating kind of harm.
Speaker 4: But yeah, we were.
Speaker 6: We worked together for a little bit at the Rodeo
Speaker 6: bar and then to be able to regal one another
Speaker 6: with stories once we saw each other on set.
Speaker 1: Oh, Sabler and McGrath playing cocktail in real life.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 1: I love this, Yeah, shooting doing some bottle tricks. I
Speaker 1: love this to my giving me a Shirley Temple as
Speaker 1: a sixth grader.
Speaker 4: There we go.
Speaker 1: I I am obsessed with that. Yeah, because he's not
Speaker 1: really in this episode, Rotten. It's like an all Marisha episode.
Speaker 1: I don't know if he had like something else to
Speaker 1: do that day, but it's like all but you'd been
Speaker 1: in other episodes with him.
Speaker 4: I never, I know, on all the episodes I did
Speaker 4: of of SVU, I never worked with him. It wasn't
Speaker 4: until I crossed over his McGrath and did see that.
Speaker 1: And did he remember you from the rodeo days?
Speaker 4: He remembered what I told him?
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's crazy.
Speaker 3: What do you have next? What do you? What? Should
Speaker 3: where should find you?
Speaker 6: I was hoping they would find me on the water
Speaker 6: front for season two, but that guy canceled.
Speaker 4: Yeah, That was a bummer because I was I was
Speaker 4: positioned to be the bad guy in season two.
Speaker 1: Oh damn, that's like a sort of a thrillery Netflix show, right,
Speaker 1: Yes it is.
Speaker 6: It's like kind of like Ozark, but at the at
Speaker 6: the beach instead of on the lake.
Speaker 4: Got it? You know, I would have I would been
Speaker 4: playing like a cartel family leader.
Speaker 1: And we love Hult mccallamie. He's a sv guy.
Speaker 4: Holpe mccownie's great.
Speaker 6: He's he's a good dude. He's also with the same
Speaker 6: agency for a while. We were auditioning for the same things.
Speaker 6: I think we both auditioned for man Hunter.
Speaker 4: Yeah, mind Hunter for Bill Tench and I saw him in.
Speaker 6: The elevator one day at Buckwell and I was like,
Speaker 6: I'm so glad you got it because you're just so
Speaker 6: fucking perfect.
Speaker 4: Good. Yeah, he does, he does. He does a good hold. Yeah. No,
Speaker 4: So I wish I was doing something right now, but
Speaker 4: I'm not.
Speaker 2: No.
Speaker 4: What I am doing, though, is I'm writing. I just finished.
Speaker 4: I just wrote typed in the end on a screenplay
Speaker 4: that I've been working on for some time. Great, which
Speaker 4: is great. So now so now the grunt.
Speaker 6: Work really starts, because now I go back into rewrite
Speaker 6: and reno, visions and revisions and stuff. But it's it's
Speaker 6: it's in good shape. I've got another one that i'm finished,
Speaker 6: that it was finished a couple of years ago, that
Speaker 6: I'm kind of reworking.
Speaker 4: I'm really enjoying.
Speaker 6: I've always I've always been a capable and I've been
Speaker 6: a good writer, but I've never been a writer.
Speaker 4: Never had a writer's discipline, you know. I always maintained it.
Speaker 6: It's like, Okay, I can write because I can put
Speaker 6: words together, and you know, I'll get a goodyear for
Speaker 6: dialogue and decent ability to structure something. But I'm not
Speaker 6: a writer. I don't have the discipline as well. I've
Speaker 6: been writing, like, you know, hours a day now, wow,
Speaker 6: because it's great. It's especially in my end of the industry.
Speaker 6: As an actor, you have so little control.
Speaker 4: Over anything anything.
Speaker 6: I mean, decisions are being made about your life by
Speaker 6: people you have never met, don't know, we'll we'll never meet,
Speaker 6: you know, And when writing, at least you have I
Speaker 6: have control over well everything, I have control over something.
Speaker 4: And you know, we'll see. Uh. You know, my manager's
Speaker 4: pretty excited about it. I need to talk to my agent,
Speaker 4: and when I'm ready to have the Literary Department of
Speaker 4: Book qualityke a look at it and we'll see it.
Speaker 4: It'd be really nice. It's it's well, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 3: I really appreciate your script. Is very difficult.
Speaker 4: It's very difficult, and I have I've been working really
Speaker 4: hard at it and I've put some some real heart
Speaker 4: into it, and I've really enjoyed the process. It's given
Speaker 4: It's given me a lot. It's really it's given me
Speaker 4: a lot.
Speaker 1: Well, this was amazing. Thank you so much for talking
Speaker 1: to us. Even if your wife bullied you into it,
Speaker 1: we hope you had a good time.
Speaker 4: She did not. I was so happy to do this.
Speaker 1: That was and we did it.
Speaker 3: We got it.
Speaker 1: We got him, We got him, We finally got We
Speaker 1: had him on our list and he had said like that,
Speaker 1: he had said yes forever ago, and then we finally
Speaker 1: nailed him down.
Speaker 2: It's really a testament to this show because sometimes we'll
Speaker 2: do episodes and I'm like, I've been dying to do this.
Speaker 3: I've wanted to do this episode.
Speaker 2: I've wanted to talk to this person, and yet it
Speaker 2: still took years because there's so many others we wanted
Speaker 2: to like.
Speaker 3: It is crazy that it keeps being exciting.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I also love when you pick up on
Speaker 1: some minute thing and you're gonna ask the guest about it,
Speaker 1: and in my mind, I'm always like, I wonder if
Speaker 1: they're even gonna know what she's talking about. And he
Speaker 1: totally was like, wasn't I like going to town on
Speaker 1: that coffee lid? Like he was totally remembered how much
Speaker 1: he licked a coffee lid twenty years ago. Like that's
Speaker 1: kind of what I think is like the fun little
Speaker 1: magic moments in our interviews. So I what a blast.
Speaker 1: He's so kind of nice. Of course, I know he's
Speaker 1: not going to come on here and be like, what's
Speaker 1: what this podcast? Get it done?
Speaker 2: You know, Like, well, I'm really open honest. I felt
Speaker 2: like he went deep and also remembers stuff. And I'm
Speaker 2: such a follower. Like two days ago, I was on
Speaker 2: the phone with my friend and she ordered a chop
Speaker 2: cheese on the phone, and then yesterday I got a
Speaker 2: chop cheese.
Speaker 3: Have I ordered a chop cheese one time in my life? Never?
Speaker 1: Just inspiration? I would say influence following If you're influenced, yeah,
Speaker 1: but you're also open to trying new things, like I
Speaker 1: would hear chop cheese. Wouldn't get that. I don't even
Speaker 1: know what that means.
Speaker 3: What does that mean?
Speaker 1: What's the meat in it?
Speaker 2: It's it's like a burger, but it's chopped up with
Speaker 2: the cheese in a bread like roller hero.
Speaker 3: But I lettuce and onions and mayo.
Speaker 1: Sorry, okay, okay, okay, I wonder if you could do
Speaker 1: that with impossible meat anyway, He asked if I wanted
Speaker 1: ketchup too, But I don't like ketchup in my sandwich,
Speaker 1: in my stuff or even my burger.
Speaker 2: I like it on the side for dip to ding.
Speaker 2: I wouldn't even dip the burger. I'd rather have mayo.
Speaker 2: I'd rather have like a fun little sauce, the Shakeshack sauce.
Speaker 2: Like I don't want ket Yeah, I mustard.
Speaker 3: On my burger.
Speaker 1: Really, that's my preference, is a mayo or a or
Speaker 1: a sauce. But if I don't have that, I need ketchup,
Speaker 1: like I need something to like lubricate the sandwich.
Speaker 3: Sorry to that word, but like I grease is lubricant
Speaker 3: enough for me.
Speaker 1: I just can't too dry.
Speaker 2: But that'd be the merch grease is lubricant enough for me?
Speaker 2: Please let us know if you would like like a
Speaker 2: dishrag that says please let us know, please, handkerchief? Should
Speaker 2: we make bandanas? What do you guys use?
Speaker 3: Like, I don't get it. I don't know what to do.
Speaker 3: The environment's fucked, like I don't know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this weekend, but from throwing things away giving things away,
Speaker 2: I got and I got rid of maybe six or
Speaker 2: seven bags.
Speaker 3: Oh, everything is still full to the brim. Like I
Speaker 3: don't know how I'm I don't know that.
Speaker 1: I don't know how it Like it's so hard to
Speaker 1: actually declutter. I mean, I don't know. Maybe a professional
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 2: But also like Terry, Okay, Terry's hot now too, but
Speaker 2: like I just think like he's one of the great
Speaker 2: faces underrated of our time. Young Terry is throughout. Oh
Speaker 2: my god, yesterday I had the gayest night of my life. Actually,
Speaker 2: so my friend we my friend hosted a Sex and
Speaker 2: the City trivia board game night.
Speaker 3: I love it, and so me and the other girl
Speaker 3: that came.
Speaker 2: I came in a beret holding a McDonald's like I
Speaker 2: have a McDonald's backpack. And then she came in a
Speaker 2: top hat with a WHI so like we you know,
Speaker 2: I brought an entimens for like you know that the
Speaker 2: I'm Keeping the Baby episode like we were in and yeah,
Speaker 2: we like watched Sex and the City on you played
Speaker 2: the board game. Then we started watching Titanic screen tests
Speaker 2: on YouTube and it was Kate with Jeremy Sisto did
Speaker 2: a full screen test with Kate Winslet. And then we
Speaker 2: just started looking at old Leonard DiCaprio. Then we watched
Speaker 2: Britney Spears making of a video crazy and I was
Speaker 2: like and then I went I didn't go home.
Speaker 3: I went out to the bars. But what a what
Speaker 3: a gay night?
Speaker 1: Such a gay night?
Speaker 3: Wait? Wait man, there were two gay men there. That
Speaker 3: that makes it gay as well?
Speaker 2: Was the board game? Like you had to no trivia?
Speaker 2: Like oh yeah, And like so Drew's boyfriend ned like
Speaker 2: he's watched it once. Maybe he's also ten year like
Speaker 2: younger than us, but and he but he's really smart.
Speaker 2: He went to Stanford, so he fucking he was kind
Speaker 2: of a genius. Because it was like, what is the
Speaker 2: car that chip the stockbroker that dated Samantha drove and
Speaker 2: the three of us knew immediately. We all looked at
Speaker 2: each other like media, melissa'scous and Melissa Rich she did
Speaker 2: the Sex and the City bus tour. So like we
Speaker 2: just and he goes, well, the timing is before g Wagon,
Speaker 2: it wouldn't be a land Rover. What is the g
Speaker 2: Wagon douche car of that time? And then he was
Speaker 2: able to guess Hummer, and I'm like, that's that's an
Speaker 2: Ivy League education.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the.
Speaker 1: Process of elimination. Like you don't know the answer, but
Speaker 1: you can. Yeah.
Speaker 2: It was like incredible to wash but we knew every Yeah.
Speaker 2: It's it's you roll a dice, you get trivia. You
Speaker 2: want the there's like the big deal car at a
Speaker 2: friend of me car. There's cars. It's convoluted for some reason. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and then sometimes you have to ask stuff out. But
Speaker 2: it's trivia. It's like most it's hardcore trivia. But one
Speaker 2: of the cards is that you don't want is Walk
Speaker 2: of Shame and it says you're moving to Brooklyn. It's
Speaker 2: like an old game. It's an old game. We are
Speaker 2: moving to Brooklyn. It was really really fun. But I
Speaker 2: don't know why I starting about Leo Oh, one of
Speaker 2: the greatest faces of our time.
Speaker 3: I don't think like Leo and Titanic.
Speaker 2: It's kind of like Brittany and Baby one more time,
Speaker 2: Like I don't know if we have had such an
Speaker 2: earth shattering face moment act ever again like him on
Speaker 2: the doc, Like I don't know, I don't know if
Speaker 2: there's a better face than Leo and Titanic. Interesting, Okay,
Speaker 2: I mean, do you have even a suggestion? Because I
Speaker 2: think Brad Pitt is very hot? But then yeah, think
Speaker 2: then because in seven, like he is hot, but then
Speaker 2: you're like next to Leo, I said, Icanic Leo.
Speaker 1: No, I don't know, I think because I'm just gonna say,
Speaker 1: I don't know if this is real. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I because I watched Leonardo DiCaprio on Growing Pains Cprio
Speaker 1: di Cprio, But because I watched him on Growing Pains
Speaker 1: when he was like thirteen. For some reason, in my mind,
Speaker 1: he's like never aged more than thirteen. Like to me,
Speaker 1: he's a boy still. And I've always been hot for
Speaker 1: Brad Pitt, so like I would say, a Brad Pitt
Speaker 1: would always win for me over But even though I
Speaker 1: think even I'm not Brad Pitt's personality and like whatever
Speaker 1: he's done recently.
Speaker 2: No, Okay, the iconic I guess Hot Brad would be
Speaker 2: fight Club, but it was not as pivotal, earth shaking
Speaker 2: of a look and a heart throbbingness as Leo and Titanic.
Speaker 2: So we're not even just talking hot, We're talking a
Speaker 2: generational changing face moment move. That's why no one's recreated Brittany.
Speaker 2: No one has had a Britney moment where it's like
Speaker 2: she went down that hallway, she clicked her little pencil
Speaker 2: and the world changed. Pop music changed, aesthetics changed, everything changed.
Speaker 2: And that's how I feel with Leo and Titanic, Like
Speaker 2: I can't think of a and I'm sure our listeners
Speaker 2: will let me know, but like I can't think of.
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people kind of say that,
Speaker 1: like he's pretty iconic in like Legends of the Fall.
Speaker 2: I think a lot of people that did not change
Speaker 2: the culture. You're out of your mind. You're out of
Speaker 2: your mind.
Speaker 3: Here you are reaching, you are reaching.
Speaker 1: I'm literally just you'r honor, she's reaching sustained. Okay, I'll stop.
Speaker 3: Legends of the Fall.
Speaker 2: I don't even think that even gross one hundred million dollars,
Speaker 2: you are out of your mind.
Speaker 1: Ah, that no, I'm looking up Legends of the Fall
Speaker 1: gross right now, My god, one hundred and sixty worldwide,
Speaker 1: one hundred and sixty million worldwide.
Speaker 2: I take it back, and I apologize, but no, I
Speaker 2: hear what you're saying. Him on the door, that's what
Speaker 2: you mean, him on the door, him on the dock,
Speaker 2: just the face. Yeah, yeah, the nervous this like sweet Bowl.
Speaker 1: Titanic was a Titanic was a cultural like Touchtows because
Speaker 1: then you watched Jeremy Cisto's screen test and you're like,
Speaker 1: walk the plank, get out the go, find the heart
Speaker 1: of the ocean, get.
Speaker 3: Out of here.
Speaker 2: Yuh bitch, I'm sorry, I got so passionate. I just
Speaker 2: and I would like to know of another one the
Speaker 2: thing at the end of the day. I would like
Speaker 2: to know what rivals that moment, and maybe there's something
Speaker 2: before my time. I just, of course there's something before
Speaker 2: my time, like Robert Redford, like I know there's.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, there's other, There's yeah, there's other Like.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I.
Speaker 2: Understand in my time of consciousness from like mid nineties
Speaker 2: to today, I don't think that level of like beauty
Speaker 2: acting cultural impact has been replicated.
Speaker 1: Okay, I hope. I hope people write in and tell
Speaker 1: us to go to our Instagram and tell us what
Speaker 1: you guys think.
Speaker 2: Brad is the closest because that movie was huge, Yes,
Speaker 2: and those muscles he was, you know, but it was
Speaker 2: dirty and he fucked a lot in that movie.
Speaker 1: It was like, you know, yeah, I mean, oh god,
Speaker 1: it's like I think about his Thelma and Louise. But again,
Speaker 1: he was a very small part in that movie. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's a very small part in that. He's just so
Speaker 1: hot and that I think was like what broke him.
Speaker 1: But okay, let's do our quick post mortem on this.
Speaker 2: I did have a crime thing. Let me just say
Speaker 2: a crime thing, okay, okay, okay. So I saw this
Speaker 2: obviously video.
Speaker 3: On the internet. Where'd you think I saw it? Okay?
Speaker 2: So it's about the Idaho murders. And what I really
Speaker 2: liked about this woman she was speaking about the killer
Speaker 2: and she used his prison numbers. She referred to him
Speaker 2: as his prison numbers. She did not say his name,
Speaker 2: and I liked that, and I think that a big
Speaker 2: fuck you to like, you know, people like that. But
Speaker 2: she said, you know, there's a theory conspiracy.
Speaker 3: I don't know. I'm actually I wish I was more
Speaker 3: familiar with the case.
Speaker 2: So there was a dog and the dog didn't react
Speaker 2: or get hurt, Like, the dog was fine, and so
Speaker 2: there's a theory that she, one of the victims did.
Speaker 2: Like the survivor said that one of the victims felt
Speaker 2: like she was being watched and stuff. And at one
Speaker 2: point the dog ran into the woods behind the house
Speaker 2: and didn't come back for a while, and they noticed
Speaker 2: that he was doing that often, and they think that
Speaker 2: because she felt watched and that the dog might have
Speaker 2: knew him, that he was in the woods kind of
Speaker 2: feeding treats to the dog and like getting the dogs
Speaker 2: used to him. Yeah, so by the time he came back,
Speaker 2: it was like, oh, that's my you know friend in
Speaker 2: the woods that gave me food.
Speaker 3: Oh shit, yeah yeah, that's chilling.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like that the dog didn't bark or like no
Speaker 1: one heard barking or anything you know that would that
Speaker 1: would be that is interesting.
Speaker 2: Fuck, that's a crazy theory. Yeah yeah, I mean also
Speaker 2: sentence Lands the Coveting. Yeah, I thought I thought about
Speaker 2: you watching that movie. I mean I thought about you
Speaker 2: guys watching it as a family, and I think that's like,
Speaker 2: you know something that's fun, but yeah, pretty fucked.
Speaker 1: I mean think about us sitting around the table, like
Speaker 1: we watched it as kids alone, like without our parents,
Speaker 1: and then at the table we would be like, uh,
Speaker 1: I'm looking for a Frederica Bimmel. Like we would literally
Speaker 1: just do accents. We would be like, we would just
Speaker 1: do all the voices and be like, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: like would you fuck me? I'd fuck me. We would
Speaker 1: like do that at the dinner table, and our parents
Speaker 1: would be like, what are you doing?
Speaker 2: You know, so.
Speaker 1: Like, yeah, I woke up the morning after the Oscars.
Speaker 3: And was like did it win?
Speaker 1: Like we were so obsessed with that movie, even though
Speaker 1: it terrified me so deeply, I don't think. I think
Speaker 1: I also probably didn't understand when I watched it, like
Speaker 1: exactly what was happening. Like I don't think I realized
Speaker 1: he was making suits out of women's skin. The first
Speaker 1: time I watched it. I was like twelve, you know,
Speaker 1: Like I think I was like, oh, he's killing women
Speaker 1: and putting them down the well and whatever, Like I
Speaker 1: didn't understand the whole like they're down the well so
Speaker 1: he can starve them so their skin can be bigger,
Speaker 1: like any of that like so it's really such a
Speaker 1: terrifying movie, but I love it so much.
Speaker 2: Is so cute, and also like the scene where like
Speaker 2: she does she shoots him and then you know she
Speaker 2: like the terror on her face that one hurt the oscar.
Speaker 1: Right like it was like I mean, yeah, yeah, Anthony
Speaker 1: Hopkins like so scary forever, like even when he plays normal,
Speaker 1: Like well, then I went.
Speaker 3: To sleep too. Hannibal.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I put on Hannibal on my laptop
Speaker 2: and went to bed.
Speaker 1: The movie of that and the show I watched the
Speaker 1: show Hannibal that was crazy with Matts Michaelson.
Speaker 2: I remember read Dragon because I was obsessed with Edward Norton.
Speaker 2: But oh yeah, yeah, yeah, it's.
Speaker 3: The switch.
Speaker 2: Like I don't know, I don't like Julian Moore as
Speaker 2: the character have a different character, different detective.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't get it.
Speaker 1: It's weird. Okay, let's wrap up. Let's get to our
Speaker 1: what would Sister Peg do this week? Obviously, I mean
Speaker 1: we barely did a post mortem, but the post mortem
Speaker 1: is the fucking cops are a lot of the times
Speaker 1: making money and corrupt. So that's the that's the takeaway.
Speaker 1: So this week for our what would Sister peg do,
Speaker 1: which is our weekly segment where we direct you towards
Speaker 1: an organization or a book or an article or something
Speaker 1: to give you more information about what we talked about.
Speaker 1: We wanted to point you to the National Police Accountability Project.
Speaker 1: This organization is quote one of the few national organizations
Speaker 1: that focus is solely on ending law enforcement overreach and
Speaker 1: abuse of power. They provide support to their network of
Speaker 1: over five hundred civil rights attorneys that file thousands of
Speaker 1: lawsuits against police departments, jails, and prisons, holding officers account
Speaker 1: accountable for its conduct. Beyond the courtroom, they help shape
Speaker 1: laws and work with communities to drive real change. So
Speaker 1: to find out more about this organization or donate, you
Speaker 1: can go over to NLG dash NPAP dot org. And
Speaker 1: I don't know what the NLG is for, but the
Speaker 1: NPAP is National Police Accountability Projects, So NLGH NPAP dot org.
Speaker 1: We put that in our show notes as a link.
Speaker 1: We put that in our stories as a link the
Speaker 1: day this episode comes out and then it gets saved
Speaker 1: forever in our WWSPD highlights on our Instagram page which
Speaker 1: is thats Messed Up pod go follow tell us what
Speaker 1: you tell us your thoughts. We asked a lot of
Speaker 1: questions today that we need your feedback on, including more
Speaker 1: iconic than Leo on the doc and merch ideas and
Speaker 1: everything else.
Speaker 2: Go and tell us for a lot, for sure, but
Speaker 2: also thank you for all the laser hair stuff.
Speaker 3: I'm not gonna buy it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know what I want to know now? Can
Speaker 1: somebody tell me this? If you listen to the end
Speaker 1: of this podcast, I'll be so happy and I'll know
Speaker 1: who you are. I want to know if that nory
Speaker 1: iron where you don't have to use an ironing board,
Speaker 1: you just flatten iron your clothes.
Speaker 3: Does that work? Is that good?
Speaker 1: Because that's they're hitting me up NonStop and I would
Speaker 1: love to not iron with an ironing board, but I
Speaker 1: don't know if that works. So to me, it looks
Speaker 1: like I'm using my hair straightener to iron my clothes.
Speaker 1: And I didn't know if that was like a thing
Speaker 1: I could actually do. So let me know if you
Speaker 1: have that and you use it.
Speaker 2: Okay, Also done someone with a mini iron recently, like
Speaker 2: a tiny little mini iron, oh for the hair. No,
Speaker 2: like it looks like an iron, like an iron that
Speaker 2: your mom would use. But ah, but okay, I love it.
Speaker 2: Next week we'll be doing Closure Part one and two,
Speaker 2: so season one episode ten and season two episode three,
Speaker 2: So get at it.
Speaker 3: We appreciate you, Thanks so much, forever, bye bye.
Speaker 1: We love you guys.
Speaker 2: That's Messed Up as an Exactly Right production.
Speaker 1: If you have compliments you'd like to give us or
Speaker 1: episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email
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Speaker 2: Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod,
Speaker 2: and follow us personally at Kara Klank and at Glitter Cheese.
Speaker 1: As always, please see our show notes for sources and
Speaker 1: more information.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much to our senior producer Casey O'Brien
Speaker 2: and our associate producer Christina Chamberlain, and to.
Speaker 1: Our mixer John Bradley and our guest booker Patrick Cottner.
Speaker 2: And to Henry Kaperski for our theme song and Carly
Speaker 2: gen Andrews for our artwork.
Speaker 1: Thank you to our executive producers Georgia hard Start, Karen Kilgareff,
Speaker 1: Daniel Kramer, and everybody at Exactly Right Media.
Speaker 2: Dub dun