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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.

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Speaker 2: Let's get to legal analyst June Grosso, host of Bloomberg Law. June,

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Speaker 2: I'm sure it's been busy for you in the last

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Speaker 2: half hour trying to get up to speed. How was

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Speaker 2: this decision divided? In what way did the court come down?

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Speaker 1: Well, that was the surprise of this decision that it

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Speaker 1: was a five to four decision. So the three most

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Speaker 1: conservative justice is Thomas Alito, Gorsich, and Justice Kavanaugh, who

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Speaker 1: tends to be in the middle somewhere, would have granted

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Speaker 1: this application. So it was the three liberal justices, the

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Speaker 1: Chief Justice and Justice Amy Cony Barrett, who denied it.

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Speaker 1: So that's kind of surprising because when you look at

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Speaker 1: Trump's arguments, what he was asking for is to be

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Speaker 1: treated differently from any criminal descendant, without really providing any

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Speaker 1: good explanations for why that should happen. He wanted them

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Speaker 1: to basically extend that controversy ruling giving presidents broad immunity

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Speaker 1: from criminal prosecution for official acts. He wanted them to

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Speaker 1: extend that to a president elect, and they refused to do. So.

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Speaker 1: What they said was that the issues that he's raising

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Speaker 1: can be raised on appeal in the New York case.

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Speaker 1: And also he had claimed that his responsibilities as president

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Speaker 1: elect during the transition would be burdened by his appearing

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Speaker 1: at this sentencing, and they said that his responsibilities were

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Speaker 1: not were relatively insubstantial in this sentencing. So they just

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Speaker 1: basically said no way.

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Speaker 2: So in terms of prosecutors pushing back, what was the

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Speaker 2: argument essentially, Well.

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Speaker 1: The prosecutor said that one of the things they said

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Speaker 1: was that this was a jury verdict, and under our system,

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Speaker 1: we have to really treasure jury verdicts. We have to

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Speaker 1: respect jury verdicts, and you can't just throw out a

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Speaker 1: jury verdict. They also attacked his arguments that this was

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Speaker 1: going to be some kind of burden on his responsibilities

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Speaker 1: in the transition. And I think what was smart here

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Speaker 1: is that Judge mur Sean and a lot of people,

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Speaker 1: when he first came out and said I'm not going

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Speaker 1: to give him any sentence, said well, what's the point

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Speaker 1: of the sentencing? Then, well, the point is that now

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Speaker 1: Trump couldn't say that, oh, the judge may sentence me

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Speaker 1: to time, or the judge may sentence me to probation,

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Speaker 1: or who knows what, because the judge had said I'm

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Speaker 1: not going to sentence you to anything. I'm going to

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Speaker 1: give you what's called an unconditional discharge. And basically what

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Speaker 1: this is is a symbolic sentencing, so that Trump is now, yes,

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Speaker 1: a convicted felon, and that felony is on the books

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Speaker 1: in New York. And I think the problem for Trump

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Speaker 1: was always the stigma of being, you know, the first

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Speaker 1: felon to be sworn in as president of the United States.

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Speaker 1: So I think that's it's the stigma for him more

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Speaker 1: than anything else, because there's no other impact on him

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Speaker 1: at all. There won't be probation, there won't be even

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Speaker 1: a fine. It'll just be the judge saying, you know,

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Speaker 1: this is the verdict and you're convicted, and then it's over.

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Speaker 2: So is this over? You can can the state appellate

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Speaker 2: courts in New York kind of change the outcome here

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Speaker 2: in any way?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, because he is still and as the justice is said,

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Speaker 1: he can go forward with the appeal as a person

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Speaker 1: normally would go forward. Normally, you wait for the sentencing,

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Speaker 1: you wait for the conviction comes, then the sentencing, and

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Speaker 1: then you can start the appellate process through the New

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Speaker 1: York Appellate courts. Well, Trump jumped all that. You know,

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Speaker 1: he wanted to go right ahead and go to the

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Speaker 1: Supreme Court. And I mean normally most people don't go

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Speaker 1: to the Supreme Court, and normally most people take it

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Speaker 1: through the appellate process. So that's what he's going to do. Now,

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Speaker 1: after the the the judge does the sentencing, then the

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Speaker 1: appeal will take place. He'll have thirty days to file

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Speaker 1: to say that he's filing for appeal, and he can

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Speaker 1: raise all these issues in the appeal. But remember too

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Speaker 1: that some of these issues that were raised in New

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Speaker 1: York the Appellate Court and the Court of Appeals, which

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Speaker 1: is New York's highest court, rejected So but you know

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Speaker 1: he'll raise them again. And I'm sure this case is

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Speaker 1: going to go on for some time. I mean, appeals

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Speaker 1: can take years.

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Speaker 2: I have to ask you about the report that Trump

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Speaker 2: had a phone call with Samuel Alito, one of the

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Speaker 2: justices on the court. In the case of whether or

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Speaker 2: not this was in any way related, we don't know that.

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Speaker 2: Alito did say he was giving a former law clerk

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Speaker 2: a recommendation for a role in the new administration. Did

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Speaker 2: how did that feel to you when you got that news.

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Speaker 1: Well, you know, Alito said that they did not talk

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Speaker 1: about anything having to do with Trump or his cases.

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Speaker 1: You know, there's nothing ethically wrong with that, I think,

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Speaker 1: as long as he didn't discuss any cases before the court.

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Speaker 1: But it does sort of sit. It just sits as

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Speaker 1: something that it appears to be something that looked it's

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Speaker 1: like an ethical violation, even though it's not. It appears

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Speaker 1: to be something that perhaps is. You know, it's unsettling

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Speaker 1: sort of to have a justice of the Supreme Court

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Speaker 1: talking to the president hours before the president elect excuse me,

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Speaker 1: hours before the president elects lawyers file papers with the

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Speaker 1: Supreme Court. It doesn't look good. But as far as

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Speaker 1: you know, whether anything went on, who knows, and Alito

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Speaker 1: said that different it's didn't And that's the way it's

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Speaker 1: going to stay. This is not going to go any further.

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Speaker 1: I mean, we've seen ethical violations, allegations of ethical violations,

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Speaker 1: but the Supreme Court go up through the federal judiciary

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Speaker 1: and they refuse to go forward. So this is certainly

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Speaker 1: nothing's going to happen with the sets for sure.

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Speaker 2: So you mentioned he's now a convicted felon, and sentencing

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Speaker 2: will happen tomorrow morning at nine thirty am, a Wall

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Speaker 2: Street time. And then on the twentieth, obviously, the President

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Speaker 2: elect will take the oath of office. That's historic in

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Speaker 2: and of itself because never has the United States had

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Speaker 2: a sitting president who has been a convicted felon in

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Speaker 2: the legal community. Are they talking about retaliation in any way?

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Speaker 2: Do you think as the result of this, you.

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Speaker 1: Mean retaliation for the Manhattan district attorneys or Trump has

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Speaker 1: been talking about retaliation against the Manhattan District attorney since

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Speaker 1: the case was filed. I mean, he has been talking

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Speaker 1: about this throughout. He would do press conferences, you'd come

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Speaker 1: out and make statements during the trial about how unfair

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Speaker 1: the the whole thing was, how you know it was

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Speaker 1: a witch haunt, and how the Manhattan District Attorney had

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Speaker 1: it in for him. It was all political. So that's there.

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Speaker 1: But it's going to be hard to go after a

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Speaker 1: sitting district attorney because he's protected in certain respects for

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Speaker 1: the things that he does in office. And it'll even

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Speaker 1: be I think even he'll get, you know, legal representation

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Speaker 1: free from the States. So it's going to be more

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Speaker 1: difficult than Trump makes it seem. For the Justice Department

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Speaker 1: to even you know, put that case together, and certainly

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Speaker 1: it's not a case that's going to you know, that's

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Speaker 1: going to go forward anywhere that it will probably be

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Speaker 1: dismissed right away if it's brought at all. But you know,

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Speaker 1: that is what Trump has said all along that he

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Speaker 1: you know, so he probably is going to look for retaliation,

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Speaker 1: but I dad he'll get it. What should we be.

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Speaker 2: Looking out for, in particular tomorrow morning around these sentencing

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Speaker 2: the language that the judge may use in an addressing

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Speaker 2: President elect Trump.

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Speaker 1: I think we should put a stopwatch on how quick

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Speaker 1: the sentencing is because there's really not much to be said.

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Speaker 1: There's not going to be any kind of you know, appeal.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure Trump is not going to Maybe Trump will

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Speaker 1: say something. Actually I could be wrong. He may say

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Speaker 1: something before he's sentenced, but you know, it's going to

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Speaker 1: be very quick because we all know what the judge

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Speaker 1: is going to say, and there's not going to be

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Speaker 1: much of an argument from either side. The judge has

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Speaker 1: already set this out, so I think it's going to

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Speaker 1: be very quick and at most we'll see some kind

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Speaker 1: of statement from Trump, who's going to be a peer

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Speaker 1: by video he doesn't have the judge that he doesn't

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Speaker 1: even have to come into the courtroom. That was another

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Speaker 1: thing that the Supreme Court sort of I must have

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Speaker 1: picked up on that this is just a brief virtual hearing.

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Speaker 1: They said, it's to impose the sentence of unconditional discharge

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Speaker 1: after a brief virtual hearing. So I think what you

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Speaker 1: have to take away from this whole thing is that

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Speaker 1: Judge wanmershawn knew what he was doing and set this

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Speaker 1: up so that the case could be ended without any

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Speaker 1: interference from the Supreme Court or the courts of Appeal

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Speaker 1: in New York.

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Speaker 2: We'll leave it there, June, thank you so much for

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Speaker 2: making time to chat with us. Bloomberg Legal analyst June Grosso,

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Speaker 2: host of the Bloomberg Law Show, helping us understand a

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Speaker 2: little bit more about the decision on the part of

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Speaker 2: the US Supreme Court to clear the way for President

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Speaker 2: elect Trump's sentencing in his hush money criminal case. We

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Speaker 2: are told the sentencing is set for nine thirty am tomorrow.

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Speaker 2: Over four deercents, the justices rejected Trump's request to halt

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Speaker 2: the New York sentencing as even though a State of

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Speaker 2: the FLDS court here in New York is considering Trump's

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Speaker 2: claim of a presidential immunity and as June kind of

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Speaker 2: laid out there. Juan Verschan, the New York judge overseeing

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Speaker 2: this case, has said he will not give Trump jail time,

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Speaker 2: any fine or probation,