Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to another edition of the Odd Lots Podcast.
Speaker 1: I'm Tracy Alloway and uh we have a very very
Speaker 1: special episode for you today. Many of you will have
Speaker 1: been following what's been happening in the cryptocurrency market, where
Speaker 1: a bitcoin recently dipped below six thousand dollars per coin.
Speaker 1: That's down from a record high of I think it
Speaker 1: was eighteen thousand dollars back in January, and of course
Speaker 1: lots of people scratching their heads trying to figure out
Speaker 1: what to make of the recent price movement, and lots
Speaker 1: of people trying to figure out still what to make
Speaker 1: of cryptocurrencies in general. So today we have a treat
Speaker 1: for you, ladies and gentlemen. We're going to be talking
Speaker 1: with two people who set up their own crypto currency,
Speaker 1: and one of them happens to be my co host,
Speaker 1: Joe Wisenthal. Joe Say, Hi, Hi Tracy, thanks for having
Speaker 1: me on on launch today. Yes, a little bit of
Speaker 1: a role reversal for you there and your partner in
Speaker 1: this cryptocurrency endeavor is also a previous guest on The
Speaker 1: Odd Lots Podcast. It's Gwan Yang. He is a data
Speaker 1: scientist edit tech startup Hi Kwan Hi Tracy. So in
Speaker 1: that brief intro I mentioned that you had set up
Speaker 1: your own cryptocurrency. Do either of you want to sort
Speaker 1: of set the stage for when you did this and
Speaker 1: why you decided to do it, well on what year
Speaker 1: was that it was in in Januar. It was a
Speaker 1: time when it felt like everyone was setting up there
Speaker 1: on cryptocurrency, and a lot of these were vanity currencies.
Speaker 1: There was do you recall Coigny a West, which didn't
Speaker 1: really gets actually launch. And as I remember the story,
Speaker 1: I was on vacation Arizona and you d n me
Speaker 1: and and said, there's all these people setting up their
Speaker 1: own cryptocurrency, and there are journalists doing it, and you
Speaker 1: know this is a big problem because you wanted to
Speaker 1: be the first. Yeah, I don't remember. I remember like
Speaker 1: over over over New Year's vacation, around the end of beginning,
Speaker 1: I had this idea, is like, oh, I should launch
Speaker 1: a cryptocurrency. And then I thought, you know who would
Speaker 1: be really interested because he's really fun and he has
Speaker 1: a great sense of humor and a say yes to
Speaker 1: new projects. Jouis Devive would be guant. So I message Guan,
Speaker 1: I said, Guan, let's launch our own cryptocurrency, and we
Speaker 1: did it. We did yeah, and I think we got
Speaker 1: ahead of at least the other other cryptocurrencies and in
Speaker 1: media at least go on. As soon as you said
Speaker 1: that Joe needed to be first, Uh, I started laughing,
Speaker 1: because that's the Joe that I recognize. Okay, So you
Speaker 1: make this decision to do it, but it can't be
Speaker 1: that easy, right You have to actually figure out how
Speaker 1: your cryptocurrency is going to work. So how did you
Speaker 1: go about doing that? So at the time in Janu
Speaker 1: there were actually people trying to make it easier. I
Speaker 1: found this paid service and actually paid them amount of
Speaker 1: bitcoin that would probably be worth thousands today. Uh, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1: And it was like a cryptocurrency as a service, you know,
Speaker 1: you paid them some bitcoin, you put in the name
Speaker 1: of your cryptocurrency and the way they would work, and
Speaker 1: they would create it for you. It turned out that
Speaker 1: it didn't work that well. So, you know, like like
Speaker 1: any good artist, I decided to steal something that already existed,
Speaker 1: and the most obvious choice was the scryptocurrency that was
Speaker 1: quite popular back then and it's still pretty popular I think,
Speaker 1: called dogecoin. That how you would pronounce it change. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Dog Coin is um based on a meme of of
Speaker 1: this particular sheep. But you knew that's kind of a
Speaker 1: fox like Japanese dog breed. That's like the Instagram version
Speaker 1: of a Corgi becoming more coin in the US, by
Speaker 1: the way, and there was a particular Japanese sepa named
Speaker 1: Kabosa who became a meme. They were all these captions
Speaker 1: like wow and such something very something moon exactly. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And obviously when that happened in someone had to create
Speaker 1: a cryptocurrency based on this poor dog. Well, and the
Speaker 1: other thing is you mentioned stealing, But like all these currencies,
Speaker 1: the code is open for the most part, so Bitcoin,
Speaker 1: light Coin, doge Coin, which I think is based on
Speaker 1: light Coin. All you have to do in a way
Speaker 1: is copy and paste the code and then change a
Speaker 1: few parameters, maybe change the name, and essentially they were
Speaker 1: everyone's kind of copy off of them. Yeah, and until
Speaker 1: a couple of years ago, all of these cryptocurrencies were
Speaker 1: almost all basically copies of Bitcoin. Dots Coin is Space,
Speaker 1: and something called light Coin which changed some some key details,
Speaker 1: but the basic architecture, if you open up the software
Speaker 1: on your computer, they all sort of looked the same,
Speaker 1: and in the case of dos coin, changed a lot
Speaker 1: of the menus and the branding to be more mimi.
Speaker 1: Of course, the Stalwart Books was a clone of doge coin,
Speaker 1: which was a clone of light Coin, which was a
Speaker 1: clone of Big Yeah, we would say a fork right,
Speaker 1: and Stalwart Bucks for those who don't know, Joe's handle
Speaker 1: on Twitter is of course the Stalwart So you named
Speaker 1: it after yourself, even though Guan was doing all the work.
Speaker 1: Of course, have you ever told this the origin story
Speaker 1: of that name? Oh? Yeah, I don't know. I feel
Speaker 1: like I might be an unreliable narrator on this. What's
Speaker 1: your recollective of the origin story? I don't really know.
Speaker 1: You had a some kind of stock tips blog with
Speaker 1: this name or I don't. I don't know what the
Speaker 1: reasoning was. It sounded pretty goofy, like Stalwart Bucks, like
Speaker 1: maybe like some sort of like fake courtesy you would
Speaker 1: get in an arcade or something like that, like that
Speaker 1: you would only be able to use to play video
Speaker 1: games or something. I think, in retrospect, though it may
Speaker 1: have been our first error is not giving it more
Speaker 1: august and serious sounding there. And I think that that
Speaker 1: right off the bat may have said a song the
Speaker 1: wrong the wrong fund. Yeah, you know, it was that
Speaker 1: like many startups, it was like that rushed to launch. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's not always a good idea. Okay, so we have
Speaker 1: a little bit of foreshadowing there of what's to come.
Speaker 1: But you know, you mentioned star wart Bucks is a
Speaker 1: clone of doge coin, which is a clone of light coin.
Speaker 1: And this is a question I always have about cryptocurrencies,
Speaker 1: which is that anyone can launch these things, and so
Speaker 1: in order to be successful you kind of have to
Speaker 1: focus on either first mover or advantage or adoption. So
Speaker 1: what was your big plan to get people on board
Speaker 1: with star war Books. Well, so this was actually the
Speaker 1: one idea that I think we were pretty legitimately ahead
Speaker 1: of our time on. So obviously the trend in was
Speaker 1: initial coin offerings, and the premise would be that of
Speaker 1: many of these coin offerings that the token has some
Speaker 1: sort of redeemable value. So for example, some projects are
Speaker 1: we've seen like, oh, you could use this token to
Speaker 1: buy storage space on people's computer for data or something
Speaker 1: like that. And we are the idea that every month,
Speaker 1: Guan and I would host a dinner among journalists or
Speaker 1: among people, and we would like get together and talk
Speaker 1: about economics or cryptocurrencies, and that to come to the dinner,
Speaker 1: you would have to pay install wart books and that
Speaker 1: that would sort of set a floor for the currency.
Speaker 1: So if it was really desirable to come to this dinner,
Speaker 1: then people would have to bid up for the currency
Speaker 1: to get it. One of the first currencies I think
Speaker 1: to attempt to underpin the currency with real world value.
Speaker 1: You did have to pay for the food separately, right,
Speaker 1: So it didn't get the currency, didn't even get you
Speaker 1: the food. It just got you the ability to come
Speaker 1: to the dinner the honor of being there. Okay, so
Speaker 1: how many of these dinners did you actually hold and
Speaker 1: what was adoption? Like, I think we've had about ten,
Speaker 1: ten or eleven so far over the course of we've
Speaker 1: had we've had I think we've had more than that.
Speaker 1: I bet we've had close to twenty and we still
Speaker 1: have them. But even starting from the first one, I
Speaker 1: think we were never actually able to convince people to
Speaker 1: actually use the currency to come. So we insist that
Speaker 1: you and I think at the first dinner, maybe about
Speaker 1: half the people at the dinner actually paid the required
Speaker 1: fee in stalwart books and and lately it's been a
Speaker 1: lot less than that zero. Wait, so how did people
Speaker 1: actually go about acquiring stal Wart books? So there were
Speaker 1: basically two ways, and one is that you could buy
Speaker 1: Stalwart Bucks from someone who already had them, or you
Speaker 1: could get them and I would often just give them
Speaker 1: out free just for for fun. And and like most cryptocurrencies,
Speaker 1: the other way that you could get them is by
Speaker 1: mining them by solving this this computational problem, this math
Speaker 1: problem basically, and the blockchain, the software would then award
Speaker 1: you some Stalwart bucks as as a reward for for
Speaker 1: spending some you know, some time on your computer and
Speaker 1: some electricity to solve this problem for us. And people
Speaker 1: were mining them, right, people, you were probably the biggest miner.
Speaker 1: But what's the history of the mining. I think that
Speaker 1: you and I only control that ten or fifteen percent
Speaker 1: of all the star wart Bucks in existence, So I
Speaker 1: would say the vast majority of the star wart Bucks
Speaker 1: were mined by other people who who are not sitting
Speaker 1: in this room. Right, So how many star wart Bucks
Speaker 1: are in existence? Now? This is a good Yeah, there's
Speaker 1: a lot to this. So if you you know, if
Speaker 1: you if I check in the database, it's uh it's
Speaker 1: it's it's about ten or fifteen ten and fifteen billion.
Speaker 1: But then also another error that we may have made
Speaker 1: in terms of serious adoption is didn't we make it
Speaker 1: so that they were mined and increments of one or
Speaker 1: like that each coin, each allocation was then from the
Speaker 1: moment you started, you were everyone the moment they acquired
Speaker 1: anything was a stalwart boxing billionaire. Do you want to
Speaker 1: explain that? Yes, so that that was the original goal,
Speaker 1: that you know, you would be mining increments of a
Speaker 1: billion or maybe ten or or a large multiple of
Speaker 1: a billion. Unfortunately, the bitcoin Slash light Coin slash dosecoins
Speaker 1: software that we used, the field that they used to
Speaker 1: store how many coins you have was not big enough
Speaker 1: to both be mining and increments of a billion and
Speaker 1: and have a reasonable amount in existence. Right, So this
Speaker 1: was like the really where the user experience in my
Speaker 1: recollection broke down because you would instantly when you would
Speaker 1: first get them, you would immediately get like a billion
Speaker 1: or actually several bills, but we would just label them
Speaker 1: as a billion stalwart bucks in the software, so when
Speaker 1: you looked at it, it would look it would say
Speaker 1: you know, and then we would wrote write b sp x,
Speaker 1: so was was getting those? Sorry, was mining those? And
Speaker 1: increments of a billion? Was that supposed to be a
Speaker 1: gimmick just to get more people on board so that
Speaker 1: they can say that they're star wart Bucks billionaires. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think you could say that that was a gimmick. Okay.
Speaker 1: And the amount of Stalwart Bucks in existence, I mean
Speaker 1: crypto proposed. It's often talk about how bitcoin is sort
Speaker 1: of self limiting, there's a limited supply um in existence
Speaker 1: and in essence the thing is kind of deflationary. Was
Speaker 1: that the same idea for Stalwart Books as well? No,
Speaker 1: we decided not to limit the amount of listens. No,
Speaker 1: it just keeps going. But it's growing very slowly now
Speaker 1: and now it's a thousand per per mining. So it
Speaker 1: does as it does decline on a predictable schedule. It's
Speaker 1: just there's no hard limit, there's no limiting. It'll go
Speaker 1: on forever, unlike say Bitcoin, where eventually you're gonna keep mining,
Speaker 1: but there no new bitcoin will be created. At some
Speaker 1: point in fact, bitcoin will be destroyed as people lose
Speaker 1: their their passwords and so forth. So do you have
Speaker 1: any idea of who else was mining or even buying
Speaker 1: Stalwart Books? So? I think most of the miners sort
Speaker 1: of in in headcount, or people who knew about it
Speaker 1: from the finance Twitter community, like a few though, like
Speaker 1: on Twitter, who from crypto I think the early crypto
Speaker 1: Twitter from back then, I think we would see people
Speaker 1: tweeted about mining it from time to Yeah, but yeah,
Speaker 1: they're also people just sort of from the broader crypto
Speaker 1: community who already had a big mining rig and who um,
Speaker 1: I don't know if anyone really took it that seriously,
Speaker 1: but who took their big mining rig and said, you know,
Speaker 1: for the next couple of hours, I'm just gonna mind
Speaker 1: stalwart bucks. Why not? I think at the time. These days,
Speaker 1: I don't think anyone who actually had any significant hash
Speaker 1: power or mining rig would waste their time on something
Speaker 1: like that. But it's still in twenty In early it
Speaker 1: was still like mostly weirdos and hobbyists, and even judging
Speaker 1: by the seriousness with which we took this project, no
Speaker 1: one knew that crypto is going to be as big
Speaker 1: then as it is now obviously, so I think maybe
Speaker 1: it was a little bit more of a tolerance or
Speaker 1: interest and sort of quirky projects like this just for
Speaker 1: the fun of it, wouldn't you say, yeah, I think
Speaker 1: none of the cryptocurrencies that people talk about now are
Speaker 1: or even mean based at all. That's really sad, right. So,
Speaker 1: one of the pervasive problems in many parts of crypto
Speaker 1: land right now is this idea of crypto whales, or
Speaker 1: people who own big proportions of a certain coin, notably
Speaker 1: Bitcoin for instance. Do you have any suspicions that there's
Speaker 1: someone out there who, given possibly the limited participation that
Speaker 1: you had in stalt Wart Bucks. Forgive me for saying so,
Speaker 1: do you have any suspicion that there's one or two
Speaker 1: people out there who are holding a big chunk of
Speaker 1: the market besides Guan, Yeah, besides squad and yourself. I
Speaker 1: don't think there's anyone who's both a Stalwart Bucks whale
Speaker 1: and remembers that they have Stalwart Bucks. But didn't you
Speaker 1: say that one point you're surprised to see that there
Speaker 1: was one other, like pretty significant minor in this space.
Speaker 1: There was. Yeah. I don't think we ever figured out
Speaker 1: who that was. It was traded at one point, there
Speaker 1: was an exchange the story with that, do you remember,
Speaker 1: I don't really know the backstory. We didn't have any
Speaker 1: contact with them back then. There were lots of crypto exchanges.
Speaker 1: Mount Cox was still in existence in the but there
Speaker 1: were tons of other exchanges that were trading all these
Speaker 1: weird cryptocurrencies like black coin and dochecoin, kitty coin and
Speaker 1: all these others. And the one that we got listed
Speaker 1: on was called cryptocode dot i N So cryptocin end
Speaker 1: is India, but it's not necessarily in Indiana. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: don't think they're actually based in India. Yeah, but if
Speaker 1: I recall, the only it was traded on this one site,
Speaker 1: and the only pair was stalwart bucks to dogecoins exactly,
Speaker 1: so there was at one point on an exchange you
Speaker 1: could trade the doge sp x pair. And so to
Speaker 1: figure out how much is stalwart bucks we're actually worth,
Speaker 1: you had to figure out the stalwart bux doze exchange
Speaker 1: rate on just one exchange, and then the doge to
Speaker 1: bitcoin exchange rate, and then of course the bitcoin to dollars. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and as I recall, the maximum market cap and dollars
Speaker 1: was about fifty dollars. Is that incredible that at one
Speaker 1: point in theory, all of the stllar bucks that existence
Speaker 1: on this very thinly traded exchange, And it's very tenduous
Speaker 1: exchange technically was worth about fifty dollars. You got, you
Speaker 1: guys created a fifty thou out of thin air. That's
Speaker 1: pretty amazing thin air and some electricity. Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 1: So you mentioned price discovery there, Joe. So with without
Speaker 1: the exchange, would there have been any way to figure
Speaker 1: out what a star wart book is actually equivalent to
Speaker 1: in fiat currency or other cryptocurrency? I mean, I guess
Speaker 1: you could the only other way to do it if
Speaker 1: you don't have exchanged b OTC trades. In other words,
Speaker 1: someone sends Gland a dollar for ten billion starward Bucks whatever,
Speaker 1: and those exist in cryptocracies today, those kind of trade,
Speaker 1: but there would be no transparency or real like market
Speaker 1: price discovery. Back back in there was actually a pretty
Speaker 1: active bitcoin occ market. There were these internet chat rooms
Speaker 1: on on I r C where you could say, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm based in New York, I would like some bitcoin
Speaker 1: at this price, and then you would you you would
Speaker 1: either pay Pal them some money, which PayPal wasn't happy about.
Speaker 1: You might meet them at Starbucks and in exchange dollar
Speaker 1: bills and they would transfer some some bitcoin to you.
Speaker 1: I kind of feel like that's gonna be the future
Speaker 1: of that. Eventually the crypto market might go back to that.
Speaker 1: It's totally plausible to me to see one day regulators
Speaker 1: be like, you know, we don't want banks to be
Speaker 1: dealing with cryptocurrency exchanges in the future for whatever reason,
Speaker 1: And it's totally plausible to me that the crypto market
Speaker 1: could once again return to people trading bitcoins for cash
Speaker 1: on Starbucks is again. Yeah, they even had this complicated
Speaker 1: reputation system where if you'd completed a successful transaction, there
Speaker 1: was a bot would keep track of your reputation. And
Speaker 1: there were some scams on on that channel too, as
Speaker 1: I recall scams with crypto shocking. So, you know, you
Speaker 1: mentioned that you were acting a little bit like a
Speaker 1: sort of tech startup at the beginning. Were there any
Speaker 1: disagreements that you two had along the way in terms
Speaker 1: of how you were actually constructing or deploying stal Wart Books.
Speaker 1: I don't think so. I think the biggest regret is
Speaker 1: rushing to market, because I think we got the whole
Speaker 1: project done in like three days, and I think that
Speaker 1: if we had waited even like six days, we could
Speaker 1: have made a lot of user experience tweaks that might
Speaker 1: not have saved stalwart Bucks, but at least given it
Speaker 1: a slightly better shot like we used. I think we
Speaker 1: just used the existing dogecoin wallet, and that had a
Speaker 1: lot of like the doge memes, like the dog pop
Speaker 1: print on it and stuff like that. Probably that would
Speaker 1: have been a tweak. Rethinking about how conversion it would
Speaker 1: be to denominate everything in billions might have been helpful,
Speaker 1: So a few things like that. I don't think rushing
Speaker 1: out that fast was probably the best move for market adopted.
Speaker 1: And the person they were rushing to beat was Alex
Speaker 1: Hearn of The Guardian, and I don't think he the
Speaker 1: hern coin ever really took off he used, didn't he
Speaker 1: use the third party service? I don't remember. I think
Speaker 1: he did. I think I we were so focused on
Speaker 1: beating other people, and of course our project went further
Speaker 1: than everyone else's because I think those were just like
Speaker 1: one day jokes. But if we had put any sort
Speaker 1: of serious planning into it, who knows what's gonna happen.
Speaker 1: There was a coin that launched a couple of months
Speaker 1: later in Marchen called arts Coin from from the Arts
Speaker 1: Technical Fox, and they put in more than more of
Speaker 1: an effort to create tools for it to be useful
Speaker 1: to to a normal user, so they had instead of
Speaker 1: having to download this complicated software, you could have an
Speaker 1: account on a website sort of like a bank and
Speaker 1: store your art coin there. But it hasn't thrived, has it? Well?
Speaker 1: That I guess that makes me feel good because it
Speaker 1: means no matter what we did, ore Is probably wasn't
Speaker 1: gonna thrive either. Yea. And what's the big takeaway that
Speaker 1: both of you learned about either cryptocurrencies or normal fiat
Speaker 1: currencies based off your experience. I'll be honest, I'm still
Speaker 1: kind of upset that we were like launching a currency
Speaker 1: and are not insanely rich. Like I kind of feel
Speaker 1: like if we had taken it a little bit more
Speaker 1: seriously or a lot actually a lot more seriously, and
Speaker 1: you never know, like it could have been the next
Speaker 1: light cone coin or even like doge coin. I think
Speaker 1: at one point this year had like a total market
Speaker 1: cap like close to a billion dollars. So if you
Speaker 1: have like ten or five or even one percent of that,
Speaker 1: that is really an extraordinary amount of money. And does
Speaker 1: coin has really outlift the doself? Yeah, it has so
Speaker 1: in retrospect, I think like you have to be pretty
Speaker 1: impressed with anyone who is into crypto and launching their
Speaker 1: own coins who is not now like incredibly loaded and
Speaker 1: necessarly weird to think about. Yeah, I would agree. I'm
Speaker 1: also very upset that Joe and I are not insanely rich.
Speaker 1: I think one another sort of sad aspect of this
Speaker 1: is that the so the original concept was that all
Speaker 1: these dinners would be at Korean barbecue restaurants, and the
Speaker 1: one that we always went to, Kang sue On Street,
Speaker 1: is now closed in all of Korea. Town is you know,
Speaker 1: still thriving, but in a very different form with with
Speaker 1: no more mom and pop restaurants. Yeah, but I will
Speaker 1: say on the plus side, you know, we continue to
Speaker 1: have these dinners and if there are any odd lots
Speaker 1: listeners who want to come to the next one, they
Speaker 1: should shoot me a message. We've met a lot of
Speaker 1: people get those dinners, and we've made like some good
Speaker 1: friends and we always have a good time, and we
Speaker 1: usually I think we have like like four or five
Speaker 1: a year something like that. We've probably had about four
Speaker 1: or five a year since early So something lasting and
Speaker 1: good came out of the project. And one thing that
Speaker 1: I strongly feel about all cryptocurrencies is they are sort
Speaker 1: of like de facto social networks. They only have value
Speaker 1: because people decide they have value, and the ones that
Speaker 1: more people decide have value tend to accumulate more value.
Speaker 1: So we sort of got the social networking aspect right,
Speaker 1: just on an incredibly uh micro scale, right, You just
Speaker 1: need a bigger social network there, Joe, Yeah, exactly. Well,
Speaker 1: that has really been a fascinating discussion. I'm going to
Speaker 1: bring Joe back in as a co host because I
Speaker 1: feel very uncomfortable doing it on my own up. But
Speaker 1: Kwan Yin, thank you so much for joining us again
Speaker 1: on the All Thoughts Podcasts. Really fun episode. Thank you
Speaker 1: for having me uh so show. I know you were
Speaker 1: just talking about this, but one thing that I probably
Speaker 1: am taking away from your experience is the importance of
Speaker 1: the crypto exchanges when it comes to price discovery for
Speaker 1: crypto and sort of legitimizing these things. And to your point,
Speaker 1: I do think the exchanges are really really important to
Speaker 1: what we've seen over the past year or so when
Speaker 1: Bitcoin and other coins were really going gangbusters, reaching eighteen dollars,
Speaker 1: and I wonder what that market looks like if you
Speaker 1: don't have those functioning exchanges. Oh, I I think there's
Speaker 1: no question that the professionalization and security of the exchanges
Speaker 1: the idea that I mean, first of all, a lot
Speaker 1: of these exchanges are most of them. At that time,
Speaker 1: you couldn't even buy bitcoin with fat currency, So the
Speaker 1: idea that you can even use dollars to buy cryptocurrency
Speaker 1: these days is kind of extraordinary. And I think a
Speaker 1: lot about like these exchanges as being the pipes in
Speaker 1: for money, and back then the pipes were incredibly thin,
Speaker 1: and these days the pipes in have gotten a lot thicker.
Speaker 1: But of course we know from the efforts to have
Speaker 1: e t fs and to have futures and all other
Speaker 1: sort of cryptocurrencies are Bitcoin traded on more traditional exchanges.
Speaker 1: Within the community, there's still a huge effort to just
Speaker 1: make it as easy as buying anything else, and that's
Speaker 1: very important I think for sort of financial adoption. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and as much as people complain about the difficulty of
Speaker 1: buying or selling crypto using various services, it has come
Speaker 1: a long way in a relatively short amount of time. Uh, Joe,
Speaker 1: I have one more question for you. Yeah, can I
Speaker 1: have a star Wart book? I'm gonna you'll have to
Speaker 1: give one from Guan because I never I have to
Speaker 1: admit that I had my wallet only on some computer
Speaker 1: at my old job, which I left like four years ago.
Speaker 1: So I am a I'm broke in Starbucks. I have
Speaker 1: zero stalwart Bucks. But Guan actually does still have his
Speaker 1: functioning wallets. And I have a feeling that next time
Speaker 1: you're in town, maybe we'll have a star wart Bucks
Speaker 1: dinner and if you want to properly pay, he would
Speaker 1: be glad to give you some so that you can
Speaker 1: pay your entry faith. All right, another valuable lesson about
Speaker 1: keeping your wallets safe. Yeah, this has been another episode
Speaker 1: of the Odd Lots podcast. I'm Tracy Alloway. You can
Speaker 1: follow me on Twitter at Tracy Alloway, and I'm Joe Wisenthal.
Speaker 1: You could follow me on Twitter at the Stalwart and
Speaker 1: you should follow Guan on Twitter at Juan And you
Speaker 1: should follow our producer on Twitter to for Foreheads. He's
Speaker 1: at foreheads T, as well as the Bloomberg head of podcast,
Speaker 1: Francesco Levie at Francesca Today. Thanks for listening. The year
Speaker 1: e