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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to another edition of the Odd Lots Podcast.

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Speaker 1: I'm Tracy Alloway and uh we have a very very

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Speaker 1: special episode for you today. Many of you will have

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Speaker 1: been following what's been happening in the cryptocurrency market, where

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Speaker 1: a bitcoin recently dipped below six thousand dollars per coin.

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Speaker 1: That's down from a record high of I think it

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Speaker 1: was eighteen thousand dollars back in January, and of course

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Speaker 1: lots of people scratching their heads trying to figure out

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Speaker 1: what to make of the recent price movement, and lots

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Speaker 1: of people trying to figure out still what to make

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Speaker 1: of cryptocurrencies in general. So today we have a treat

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Speaker 1: for you, ladies and gentlemen. We're going to be talking

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Speaker 1: with two people who set up their own crypto currency,

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Speaker 1: and one of them happens to be my co host,

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Speaker 1: Joe Wisenthal. Joe Say, Hi, Hi Tracy, thanks for having

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Speaker 1: me on on launch today. Yes, a little bit of

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Speaker 1: a role reversal for you there and your partner in

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Speaker 1: this cryptocurrency endeavor is also a previous guest on The

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Speaker 1: Odd Lots Podcast. It's Gwan Yang. He is a data

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Speaker 1: scientist edit tech startup Hi Kwan Hi Tracy. So in

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Speaker 1: that brief intro I mentioned that you had set up

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Speaker 1: your own cryptocurrency. Do either of you want to sort

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Speaker 1: of set the stage for when you did this and

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Speaker 1: why you decided to do it, well on what year

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Speaker 1: was that it was in in Januar. It was a

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Speaker 1: time when it felt like everyone was setting up there

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Speaker 1: on cryptocurrency, and a lot of these were vanity currencies.

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Speaker 1: There was do you recall Coigny a West, which didn't

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Speaker 1: really gets actually launch. And as I remember the story,

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Speaker 1: I was on vacation Arizona and you d n me

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Speaker 1: and and said, there's all these people setting up their

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Speaker 1: own cryptocurrency, and there are journalists doing it, and you

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Speaker 1: know this is a big problem because you wanted to

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Speaker 1: be the first. Yeah, I don't remember. I remember like

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Speaker 1: over over over New Year's vacation, around the end of beginning,

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Speaker 1: I had this idea, is like, oh, I should launch

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Speaker 1: a cryptocurrency. And then I thought, you know who would

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Speaker 1: be really interested because he's really fun and he has

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Speaker 1: a great sense of humor and a say yes to

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Speaker 1: new projects. Jouis Devive would be guant. So I message Guan,

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Speaker 1: I said, Guan, let's launch our own cryptocurrency, and we

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Speaker 1: did it. We did yeah, and I think we got

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Speaker 1: ahead of at least the other other cryptocurrencies and in

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Speaker 1: media at least go on. As soon as you said

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Speaker 1: that Joe needed to be first, Uh, I started laughing,

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Speaker 1: because that's the Joe that I recognize. Okay, So you

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Speaker 1: make this decision to do it, but it can't be

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Speaker 1: that easy, right You have to actually figure out how

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Speaker 1: your cryptocurrency is going to work. So how did you

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Speaker 1: go about doing that? So at the time in Janu

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Speaker 1: there were actually people trying to make it easier. I

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Speaker 1: found this paid service and actually paid them amount of

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Speaker 1: bitcoin that would probably be worth thousands today. Uh, I'm sorry.

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Speaker 1: And it was like a cryptocurrency as a service, you know,

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Speaker 1: you paid them some bitcoin, you put in the name

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Speaker 1: of your cryptocurrency and the way they would work, and

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Speaker 1: they would create it for you. It turned out that

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Speaker 1: it didn't work that well. So, you know, like like

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Speaker 1: any good artist, I decided to steal something that already existed,

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Speaker 1: and the most obvious choice was the scryptocurrency that was

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Speaker 1: quite popular back then and it's still pretty popular I think,

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Speaker 1: called dogecoin. That how you would pronounce it change. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Dog Coin is um based on a meme of of

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Speaker 1: this particular sheep. But you knew that's kind of a

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Speaker 1: fox like Japanese dog breed. That's like the Instagram version

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Speaker 1: of a Corgi becoming more coin in the US, by

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Speaker 1: the way, and there was a particular Japanese sepa named

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Speaker 1: Kabosa who became a meme. They were all these captions

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Speaker 1: like wow and such something very something moon exactly. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And obviously when that happened in someone had to create

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Speaker 1: a cryptocurrency based on this poor dog. Well, and the

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Speaker 1: other thing is you mentioned stealing, But like all these currencies,

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Speaker 1: the code is open for the most part, so Bitcoin,

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Speaker 1: light Coin, doge Coin, which I think is based on

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Speaker 1: light Coin. All you have to do in a way

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Speaker 1: is copy and paste the code and then change a

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Speaker 1: few parameters, maybe change the name, and essentially they were

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Speaker 1: everyone's kind of copy off of them. Yeah, and until

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Speaker 1: a couple of years ago, all of these cryptocurrencies were

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Speaker 1: almost all basically copies of Bitcoin. Dots Coin is Space,

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Speaker 1: and something called light Coin which changed some some key details,

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Speaker 1: but the basic architecture, if you open up the software

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Speaker 1: on your computer, they all sort of looked the same,

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Speaker 1: and in the case of dos coin, changed a lot

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Speaker 1: of the menus and the branding to be more mimi.

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Speaker 1: Of course, the Stalwart Books was a clone of doge coin,

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Speaker 1: which was a clone of light Coin, which was a

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Speaker 1: clone of Big Yeah, we would say a fork right,

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Speaker 1: and Stalwart Bucks for those who don't know, Joe's handle

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Speaker 1: on Twitter is of course the Stalwart So you named

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Speaker 1: it after yourself, even though Guan was doing all the work.

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Speaker 1: Of course, have you ever told this the origin story

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Speaker 1: of that name? Oh? Yeah, I don't know. I feel

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Speaker 1: like I might be an unreliable narrator on this. What's

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Speaker 1: your recollective of the origin story? I don't really know.

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Speaker 1: You had a some kind of stock tips blog with

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Speaker 1: this name or I don't. I don't know what the

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Speaker 1: reasoning was. It sounded pretty goofy, like Stalwart Bucks, like

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Speaker 1: maybe like some sort of like fake courtesy you would

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Speaker 1: get in an arcade or something like that, like that

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Speaker 1: you would only be able to use to play video

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Speaker 1: games or something. I think, in retrospect, though it may

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Speaker 1: have been our first error is not giving it more

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Speaker 1: august and serious sounding there. And I think that that

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Speaker 1: right off the bat may have said a song the

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Speaker 1: wrong the wrong fund. Yeah, you know, it was that

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Speaker 1: like many startups, it was like that rushed to launch. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's not always a good idea. Okay, so we have

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Speaker 1: a little bit of foreshadowing there of what's to come.

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Speaker 1: But you know, you mentioned star wart Bucks is a

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Speaker 1: clone of doge coin, which is a clone of light coin.

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Speaker 1: And this is a question I always have about cryptocurrencies,

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Speaker 1: which is that anyone can launch these things, and so

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Speaker 1: in order to be successful you kind of have to

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Speaker 1: focus on either first mover or advantage or adoption. So

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Speaker 1: what was your big plan to get people on board

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Speaker 1: with star war Books. Well, so this was actually the

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Speaker 1: one idea that I think we were pretty legitimately ahead

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Speaker 1: of our time on. So obviously the trend in was

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Speaker 1: initial coin offerings, and the premise would be that of

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Speaker 1: many of these coin offerings that the token has some

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Speaker 1: sort of redeemable value. So for example, some projects are

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Speaker 1: we've seen like, oh, you could use this token to

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Speaker 1: buy storage space on people's computer for data or something

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Speaker 1: like that. And we are the idea that every month,

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Speaker 1: Guan and I would host a dinner among journalists or

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Speaker 1: among people, and we would like get together and talk

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Speaker 1: about economics or cryptocurrencies, and that to come to the dinner,

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Speaker 1: you would have to pay install wart books and that

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Speaker 1: that would sort of set a floor for the currency.

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Speaker 1: So if it was really desirable to come to this dinner,

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Speaker 1: then people would have to bid up for the currency

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Speaker 1: to get it. One of the first currencies I think

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Speaker 1: to attempt to underpin the currency with real world value.

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Speaker 1: You did have to pay for the food separately, right,

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Speaker 1: So it didn't get the currency, didn't even get you

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Speaker 1: the food. It just got you the ability to come

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Speaker 1: to the dinner the honor of being there. Okay, so

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Speaker 1: how many of these dinners did you actually hold and

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Speaker 1: what was adoption? Like, I think we've had about ten,

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Speaker 1: ten or eleven so far over the course of we've

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Speaker 1: had we've had I think we've had more than that.

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Speaker 1: I bet we've had close to twenty and we still

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Speaker 1: have them. But even starting from the first one, I

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Speaker 1: think we were never actually able to convince people to

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Speaker 1: actually use the currency to come. So we insist that

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Speaker 1: you and I think at the first dinner, maybe about

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Speaker 1: half the people at the dinner actually paid the required

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Speaker 1: fee in stalwart books and and lately it's been a

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Speaker 1: lot less than that zero. Wait, so how did people

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Speaker 1: actually go about acquiring stal Wart books? So there were

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Speaker 1: basically two ways, and one is that you could buy

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Speaker 1: Stalwart Bucks from someone who already had them, or you

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Speaker 1: could get them and I would often just give them

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Speaker 1: out free just for for fun. And and like most cryptocurrencies,

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Speaker 1: the other way that you could get them is by

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Speaker 1: mining them by solving this this computational problem, this math

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Speaker 1: problem basically, and the blockchain, the software would then award

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Speaker 1: you some Stalwart bucks as as a reward for for

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Speaker 1: spending some you know, some time on your computer and

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Speaker 1: some electricity to solve this problem for us. And people

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Speaker 1: were mining them, right, people, you were probably the biggest miner.

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Speaker 1: But what's the history of the mining. I think that

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Speaker 1: you and I only control that ten or fifteen percent

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Speaker 1: of all the star wart Bucks in existence, So I

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Speaker 1: would say the vast majority of the star wart Bucks

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Speaker 1: were mined by other people who who are not sitting

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Speaker 1: in this room. Right, So how many star wart Bucks

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Speaker 1: are in existence? Now? This is a good Yeah, there's

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Speaker 1: a lot to this. So if you you know, if

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Speaker 1: you if I check in the database, it's uh it's

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Speaker 1: it's it's about ten or fifteen ten and fifteen billion.

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Speaker 1: But then also another error that we may have made

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Speaker 1: in terms of serious adoption is didn't we make it

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Speaker 1: so that they were mined and increments of one or

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Speaker 1: like that each coin, each allocation was then from the

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Speaker 1: moment you started, you were everyone the moment they acquired

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Speaker 1: anything was a stalwart boxing billionaire. Do you want to

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Speaker 1: explain that? Yes, so that that was the original goal,

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Speaker 1: that you know, you would be mining increments of a

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Speaker 1: billion or maybe ten or or a large multiple of

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Speaker 1: a billion. Unfortunately, the bitcoin Slash light Coin slash dosecoins

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Speaker 1: software that we used, the field that they used to

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Speaker 1: store how many coins you have was not big enough

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Speaker 1: to both be mining and increments of a billion and

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Speaker 1: and have a reasonable amount in existence. Right, So this

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Speaker 1: was like the really where the user experience in my

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Speaker 1: recollection broke down because you would instantly when you would

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Speaker 1: first get them, you would immediately get like a billion

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Speaker 1: or actually several bills, but we would just label them

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Speaker 1: as a billion stalwart bucks in the software, so when

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Speaker 1: you looked at it, it would look it would say

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Speaker 1: you know, and then we would wrote write b sp x,

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Speaker 1: so was was getting those? Sorry, was mining those? And

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Speaker 1: increments of a billion? Was that supposed to be a

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Speaker 1: gimmick just to get more people on board so that

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Speaker 1: they can say that they're star wart Bucks billionaires. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think you could say that that was a gimmick. Okay.

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Speaker 1: And the amount of Stalwart Bucks in existence, I mean

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Speaker 1: crypto proposed. It's often talk about how bitcoin is sort

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Speaker 1: of self limiting, there's a limited supply um in existence

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Speaker 1: and in essence the thing is kind of deflationary. Was

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Speaker 1: that the same idea for Stalwart Books as well? No,

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Speaker 1: we decided not to limit the amount of listens. No,

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Speaker 1: it just keeps going. But it's growing very slowly now

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Speaker 1: and now it's a thousand per per mining. So it

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Speaker 1: does as it does decline on a predictable schedule. It's

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Speaker 1: just there's no hard limit, there's no limiting. It'll go

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Speaker 1: on forever, unlike say Bitcoin, where eventually you're gonna keep mining,

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Speaker 1: but there no new bitcoin will be created. At some

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Speaker 1: point in fact, bitcoin will be destroyed as people lose

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Speaker 1: their their passwords and so forth. So do you have

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Speaker 1: any idea of who else was mining or even buying

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Speaker 1: Stalwart Books? So? I think most of the miners sort

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Speaker 1: of in in headcount, or people who knew about it

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Speaker 1: from the finance Twitter community, like a few though, like

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Speaker 1: on Twitter, who from crypto I think the early crypto

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Speaker 1: Twitter from back then, I think we would see people

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Speaker 1: tweeted about mining it from time to Yeah, but yeah,

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Speaker 1: they're also people just sort of from the broader crypto

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Speaker 1: community who already had a big mining rig and who um,

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Speaker 1: I don't know if anyone really took it that seriously,

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Speaker 1: but who took their big mining rig and said, you know,

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Speaker 1: for the next couple of hours, I'm just gonna mind

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Speaker 1: stalwart bucks. Why not? I think at the time. These days,

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Speaker 1: I don't think anyone who actually had any significant hash

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Speaker 1: power or mining rig would waste their time on something

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Speaker 1: like that. But it's still in twenty In early it

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Speaker 1: was still like mostly weirdos and hobbyists, and even judging

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Speaker 1: by the seriousness with which we took this project, no

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Speaker 1: one knew that crypto is going to be as big

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Speaker 1: then as it is now obviously, so I think maybe

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Speaker 1: it was a little bit more of a tolerance or

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Speaker 1: interest and sort of quirky projects like this just for

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Speaker 1: the fun of it, wouldn't you say, yeah, I think

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Speaker 1: none of the cryptocurrencies that people talk about now are

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Speaker 1: or even mean based at all. That's really sad, right. So,

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Speaker 1: one of the pervasive problems in many parts of crypto

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Speaker 1: land right now is this idea of crypto whales, or

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Speaker 1: people who own big proportions of a certain coin, notably

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Speaker 1: Bitcoin for instance. Do you have any suspicions that there's

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Speaker 1: someone out there who, given possibly the limited participation that

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Speaker 1: you had in stalt Wart Bucks. Forgive me for saying so,

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Speaker 1: do you have any suspicion that there's one or two

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Speaker 1: people out there who are holding a big chunk of

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Speaker 1: the market besides Guan, Yeah, besides squad and yourself. I

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Speaker 1: don't think there's anyone who's both a Stalwart Bucks whale

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Speaker 1: and remembers that they have Stalwart Bucks. But didn't you

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Speaker 1: say that one point you're surprised to see that there

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Speaker 1: was one other, like pretty significant minor in this space.

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Speaker 1: There was. Yeah. I don't think we ever figured out

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Speaker 1: who that was. It was traded at one point, there

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Speaker 1: was an exchange the story with that, do you remember,

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Speaker 1: I don't really know the backstory. We didn't have any

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Speaker 1: contact with them back then. There were lots of crypto exchanges.

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Speaker 1: Mount Cox was still in existence in the but there

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Speaker 1: were tons of other exchanges that were trading all these

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Speaker 1: weird cryptocurrencies like black coin and dochecoin, kitty coin and

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Speaker 1: all these others. And the one that we got listed

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Speaker 1: on was called cryptocode dot i N So cryptocin end

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Speaker 1: is India, but it's not necessarily in Indiana. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: don't think they're actually based in India. Yeah, but if

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Speaker 1: I recall, the only it was traded on this one site,

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Speaker 1: and the only pair was stalwart bucks to dogecoins exactly,

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Speaker 1: so there was at one point on an exchange you

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Speaker 1: could trade the doge sp x pair. And so to

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Speaker 1: figure out how much is stalwart bucks we're actually worth,

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Speaker 1: you had to figure out the stalwart bux doze exchange

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Speaker 1: rate on just one exchange, and then the doge to

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Speaker 1: bitcoin exchange rate, and then of course the bitcoin to dollars. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and as I recall, the maximum market cap and dollars

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Speaker 1: was about fifty dollars. Is that incredible that at one

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Speaker 1: point in theory, all of the stllar bucks that existence

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Speaker 1: on this very thinly traded exchange, And it's very tenduous

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Speaker 1: exchange technically was worth about fifty dollars. You got, you

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Speaker 1: guys created a fifty thou out of thin air. That's

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Speaker 1: pretty amazing thin air and some electricity. Yeah, that's true.

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Speaker 1: So you mentioned price discovery there, Joe. So with without

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Speaker 1: the exchange, would there have been any way to figure

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Speaker 1: out what a star wart book is actually equivalent to

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Speaker 1: in fiat currency or other cryptocurrency? I mean, I guess

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Speaker 1: you could the only other way to do it if

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Speaker 1: you don't have exchanged b OTC trades. In other words,

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Speaker 1: someone sends Gland a dollar for ten billion starward Bucks whatever,

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Speaker 1: and those exist in cryptocracies today, those kind of trade,

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Speaker 1: but there would be no transparency or real like market

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Speaker 1: price discovery. Back back in there was actually a pretty

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Speaker 1: active bitcoin occ market. There were these internet chat rooms

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Speaker 1: on on I r C where you could say, you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm based in New York, I would like some bitcoin

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Speaker 1: at this price, and then you would you you would

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Speaker 1: either pay Pal them some money, which PayPal wasn't happy about.

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Speaker 1: You might meet them at Starbucks and in exchange dollar

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Speaker 1: bills and they would transfer some some bitcoin to you.

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Speaker 1: I kind of feel like that's gonna be the future

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Speaker 1: of that. Eventually the crypto market might go back to that.

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Speaker 1: It's totally plausible to me to see one day regulators

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Speaker 1: be like, you know, we don't want banks to be

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Speaker 1: dealing with cryptocurrency exchanges in the future for whatever reason,

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Speaker 1: And it's totally plausible to me that the crypto market

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Speaker 1: could once again return to people trading bitcoins for cash

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Speaker 1: on Starbucks is again. Yeah, they even had this complicated

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Speaker 1: reputation system where if you'd completed a successful transaction, there

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Speaker 1: was a bot would keep track of your reputation. And

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Speaker 1: there were some scams on on that channel too, as

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Speaker 1: I recall scams with crypto shocking. So, you know, you

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Speaker 1: mentioned that you were acting a little bit like a

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Speaker 1: sort of tech startup at the beginning. Were there any

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Speaker 1: disagreements that you two had along the way in terms

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Speaker 1: of how you were actually constructing or deploying stal Wart Books.

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Speaker 1: I don't think so. I think the biggest regret is

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Speaker 1: rushing to market, because I think we got the whole

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Speaker 1: project done in like three days, and I think that

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Speaker 1: if we had waited even like six days, we could

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Speaker 1: have made a lot of user experience tweaks that might

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Speaker 1: not have saved stalwart Bucks, but at least given it

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Speaker 1: a slightly better shot like we used. I think we

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Speaker 1: just used the existing dogecoin wallet, and that had a

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Speaker 1: lot of like the doge memes, like the dog pop

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Speaker 1: print on it and stuff like that. Probably that would

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Speaker 1: have been a tweak. Rethinking about how conversion it would

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Speaker 1: be to denominate everything in billions might have been helpful,

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Speaker 1: So a few things like that. I don't think rushing

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Speaker 1: out that fast was probably the best move for market adopted.

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Speaker 1: And the person they were rushing to beat was Alex

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Speaker 1: Hearn of The Guardian, and I don't think he the

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Speaker 1: hern coin ever really took off he used, didn't he

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Speaker 1: use the third party service? I don't remember. I think

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Speaker 1: he did. I think I we were so focused on

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Speaker 1: beating other people, and of course our project went further

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Speaker 1: than everyone else's because I think those were just like

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Speaker 1: one day jokes. But if we had put any sort

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Speaker 1: of serious planning into it, who knows what's gonna happen.

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Speaker 1: There was a coin that launched a couple of months

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Speaker 1: later in Marchen called arts Coin from from the Arts

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Speaker 1: Technical Fox, and they put in more than more of

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Speaker 1: an effort to create tools for it to be useful

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Speaker 1: to to a normal user, so they had instead of

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Speaker 1: having to download this complicated software, you could have an

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Speaker 1: account on a website sort of like a bank and

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Speaker 1: store your art coin there. But it hasn't thrived, has it? Well?

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Speaker 1: That I guess that makes me feel good because it

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Speaker 1: means no matter what we did, ore Is probably wasn't

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Speaker 1: gonna thrive either. Yea. And what's the big takeaway that

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Speaker 1: both of you learned about either cryptocurrencies or normal fiat

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Speaker 1: currencies based off your experience. I'll be honest, I'm still

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Speaker 1: kind of upset that we were like launching a currency

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Speaker 1: and are not insanely rich. Like I kind of feel

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Speaker 1: like if we had taken it a little bit more

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Speaker 1: seriously or a lot actually a lot more seriously, and

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Speaker 1: you never know, like it could have been the next

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Speaker 1: light cone coin or even like doge coin. I think

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Speaker 1: at one point this year had like a total market

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Speaker 1: cap like close to a billion dollars. So if you

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Speaker 1: have like ten or five or even one percent of that,

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Speaker 1: that is really an extraordinary amount of money. And does

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Speaker 1: coin has really outlift the doself? Yeah, it has so

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Speaker 1: in retrospect, I think like you have to be pretty

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Speaker 1: impressed with anyone who is into crypto and launching their

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Speaker 1: own coins who is not now like incredibly loaded and

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Speaker 1: necessarly weird to think about. Yeah, I would agree. I'm

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Speaker 1: also very upset that Joe and I are not insanely rich.

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Speaker 1: I think one another sort of sad aspect of this

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Speaker 1: is that the so the original concept was that all

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Speaker 1: these dinners would be at Korean barbecue restaurants, and the

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Speaker 1: one that we always went to, Kang sue On Street,

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Speaker 1: is now closed in all of Korea. Town is you know,

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Speaker 1: still thriving, but in a very different form with with

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Speaker 1: no more mom and pop restaurants. Yeah, but I will

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Speaker 1: say on the plus side, you know, we continue to

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Speaker 1: have these dinners and if there are any odd lots

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Speaker 1: listeners who want to come to the next one, they

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Speaker 1: should shoot me a message. We've met a lot of

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Speaker 1: people get those dinners, and we've made like some good

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Speaker 1: friends and we always have a good time, and we

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Speaker 1: usually I think we have like like four or five

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Speaker 1: a year something like that. We've probably had about four

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Speaker 1: or five a year since early So something lasting and

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Speaker 1: good came out of the project. And one thing that

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Speaker 1: I strongly feel about all cryptocurrencies is they are sort

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Speaker 1: of like de facto social networks. They only have value

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Speaker 1: because people decide they have value, and the ones that

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Speaker 1: more people decide have value tend to accumulate more value.

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Speaker 1: So we sort of got the social networking aspect right,

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Speaker 1: just on an incredibly uh micro scale, right, You just

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Speaker 1: need a bigger social network there, Joe, Yeah, exactly. Well,

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Speaker 1: that has really been a fascinating discussion. I'm going to

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Speaker 1: bring Joe back in as a co host because I

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Speaker 1: feel very uncomfortable doing it on my own up. But

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Speaker 1: Kwan Yin, thank you so much for joining us again

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Speaker 1: on the All Thoughts Podcasts. Really fun episode. Thank you

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Speaker 1: for having me uh so show. I know you were

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Speaker 1: just talking about this, but one thing that I probably

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Speaker 1: am taking away from your experience is the importance of

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Speaker 1: the crypto exchanges when it comes to price discovery for

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Speaker 1: crypto and sort of legitimizing these things. And to your point,

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Speaker 1: I do think the exchanges are really really important to

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Speaker 1: what we've seen over the past year or so when

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Speaker 1: Bitcoin and other coins were really going gangbusters, reaching eighteen dollars,

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Speaker 1: and I wonder what that market looks like if you

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Speaker 1: don't have those functioning exchanges. Oh, I I think there's

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Speaker 1: no question that the professionalization and security of the exchanges

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Speaker 1: the idea that I mean, first of all, a lot

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Speaker 1: of these exchanges are most of them. At that time,

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Speaker 1: you couldn't even buy bitcoin with fat currency, So the

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Speaker 1: idea that you can even use dollars to buy cryptocurrency

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Speaker 1: these days is kind of extraordinary. And I think a

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Speaker 1: lot about like these exchanges as being the pipes in

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Speaker 1: for money, and back then the pipes were incredibly thin,

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Speaker 1: and these days the pipes in have gotten a lot thicker.

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Speaker 1: But of course we know from the efforts to have

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Speaker 1: e t fs and to have futures and all other

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Speaker 1: sort of cryptocurrencies are Bitcoin traded on more traditional exchanges.

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Speaker 1: Within the community, there's still a huge effort to just

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Speaker 1: make it as easy as buying anything else, and that's

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Speaker 1: very important I think for sort of financial adoption. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and as much as people complain about the difficulty of

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Speaker 1: buying or selling crypto using various services, it has come

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Speaker 1: a long way in a relatively short amount of time. Uh, Joe,

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Speaker 1: I have one more question for you. Yeah, can I

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Speaker 1: have a star Wart book? I'm gonna you'll have to

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Speaker 1: give one from Guan because I never I have to

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Speaker 1: admit that I had my wallet only on some computer

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Speaker 1: at my old job, which I left like four years ago.

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Speaker 1: So I am a I'm broke in Starbucks. I have

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Speaker 1: zero stalwart Bucks. But Guan actually does still have his

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Speaker 1: functioning wallets. And I have a feeling that next time

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Speaker 1: you're in town, maybe we'll have a star wart Bucks

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Speaker 1: dinner and if you want to properly pay, he would

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Speaker 1: be glad to give you some so that you can

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Speaker 1: pay your entry faith. All right, another valuable lesson about

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Speaker 1: keeping your wallets safe. Yeah, this has been another episode

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Speaker 1: of the Odd Lots podcast. I'm Tracy Alloway. You can

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Speaker 1: follow me on Twitter at Tracy Alloway, and I'm Joe Wisenthal.

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Speaker 1: You could follow me on Twitter at the Stalwart and

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Speaker 1: you should follow Guan on Twitter at Juan And you

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Speaker 1: should follow our producer on Twitter to for Foreheads. He's

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Speaker 1: at foreheads T, as well as the Bloomberg head of podcast,

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Speaker 1: Francesco Levie at Francesca Today. Thanks for listening. The year

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Speaker 1: e