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Speaker 1: Oh man, do you guys remember that film Annabelle Creepy Doll.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, oh yeah. Not long ago, we did a

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Speaker 1: whole episode on one of the series movies, right, we

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Speaker 1: just we just did an episode, I know, you know.

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Speaker 1: It was the It was the story that was the

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Speaker 1: inspiration for the Bad One, which was the third one

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Speaker 1: in the series, I believe, the most recent Conjuring, which

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Speaker 1: was very overblown and in the silly, but the story

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Speaker 1: that was based on was fascinating. It was about a

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Speaker 1: young man who uh stabbed a kennel owner to death

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Speaker 1: many many, many, many many times. Then it was found

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Speaker 1: wandering down the street covered in blood and all the

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Speaker 1: first countrey was cool. Wait for it, folks, great, great, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: second was good too. So is that is that a ref?

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Speaker 1: Is that a ref? It's been a while. Hopefully we

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Speaker 1: didn't spook too many people listening in the dark. But this, uh,

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Speaker 1: this episode, this episode is is genuinely important to us

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Speaker 1: because a lot of works of fiction are inspired and

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Speaker 1: I like that phrase now inspired by true stories. A

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Speaker 1: lot of the work that inspired various films and franchises

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Speaker 1: about the paranormal and about those who purport to hunt

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Speaker 1: demons and Ghosts comes from a real life couple Ed

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Speaker 1: and Lorraine Warren. You have heard about them, You have

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Speaker 1: doubtlessly seen depictions of them, one being a psychic or

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Speaker 1: believe they were psychic, and one being a self professed demonologist.

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Speaker 1: So how much of their story is true? How much

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Speaker 1: is fact? How much is fiction? Why are they controversial

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Speaker 1: in certain circles? Let's get into it, from UFOs to

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Speaker 1: psychic power. Since government conspiracies, history is riddled with unexplained

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Speaker 1: event you can turn back now or learn the stuff

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Speaker 1: they don't want you to know. Hello, welcome back to

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Speaker 1: the show. My name is Matt, my name is Noel,

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Speaker 1: and I am then you are you that makes this

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Speaker 1: stuff they don't want you to know? So as we

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Speaker 1: begin today's episode, we're going to look back on some

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Speaker 1: of the stuff we have done in the past. We've

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Speaker 1: talked about ghosts before a right, guys, Yes, we've done

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Speaker 1: several episodes on ghost We've talked about we talked about hunting,

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Speaker 1: we've talked about what a haunting is, demonsion, pssession, exocisms. Yeah. So,

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Speaker 1: in one of our previous episodes, we asked each other

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Speaker 1: and you listeners for any stories or personal experiences with ghosts.

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Speaker 1: If you have yet to write to us with your story,

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Speaker 1: please send it in. You never know when it might

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Speaker 1: be the next installment of our Creepy Theater. We had

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Speaker 1: an anonymous person right in after our Gin episode, and

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Speaker 1: she he someone who told us a story about how

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Speaker 1: they believe they were experiencing some strange stuff in their

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Speaker 1: bedroom one day with a gin. You have some strange phenomenon. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And we had an email one store that was from

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Speaker 1: an anonymous person that just said something to the effect

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Speaker 1: of demons are real, don't talk about them. You shouldn't

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Speaker 1: talk about them because that like coaxed them out of

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Speaker 1: their shadowy domain. That it seemed very serious, the belief

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Speaker 1: that happens sometimes in Southern US folklore that one can

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Speaker 1: speak something up h and uh. Don't don't be mistaken,

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Speaker 1: ladies and gentlemen. There are parts of the world where

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Speaker 1: people still put blankets over mirrors if a storm comes

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Speaker 1: at night. Mirrors are creepy if you think about it.

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Speaker 1: Have you ever seen a kid have that existential question

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Speaker 1: when they look at a mirror for the first time

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Speaker 1: and say, oh, it's it's me. Yeah, but yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: not me because everything's reversed, everything's tops each other would say,

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Speaker 1: have had that experience a few times as an adult.

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Speaker 1: M h, I'm not a fan of mirrors. I'm not

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Speaker 1: ever gonna be the biggest mirror fan. You won't find

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Speaker 1: me a mirror con good with rear view mirrors, side mirrors.

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Speaker 1: They helped me not crash, but in general, I I

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Speaker 1: wouldn't say I avoid them, but they do kind of

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Speaker 1: give me the creeps a little bit. We got a

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Speaker 1: little bit sidetracked. Although you may have, you may have

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Speaker 1: had something that feels like a supernatural experience with a mirror.

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Speaker 1: Um have have we talked on air about this? Have

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Speaker 1: any of us talked about ghost hunting? I feel like

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Speaker 1: we may have. In the past. We did an episode

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Speaker 1: on ghost hunting. I believe that was pretty focused on

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Speaker 1: it on when we did the ghosts episode, right right,

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Speaker 1: and uh, today we're looking at not ghosts, but at

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Speaker 1: the people who look for ghosts or other supernatural phenomenon.

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Speaker 1: We're going to focus a little bit more on a

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Speaker 1: specific group of people. And when you say supernatural phenomenon,

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Speaker 1: we mean not just spirits of the human dead or

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Speaker 1: the venerated ancestors or astral projections from some projects Stargate Survivor, right,

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Speaker 1: We're also talking about incorporeal non human entities, angels, extra

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Speaker 1: dimensional sentient beings, and of course demons, none of which

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Speaker 1: have been proven to exist. Just gonna put that in

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Speaker 1: there at the beginning, at least from a scientific standpoint.

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Speaker 1: A lot of people believe in these things, but they

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Speaker 1: haven't been proven. When you see extra dimensional minds, um,

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Speaker 1: extra dimensional beings, it makes me also think of, you know, extraterrestrials.

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Speaker 1: Is that I mean, perhaps I don't know who know,

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Speaker 1: like that cake song? Perhaps perhaps so as you can imagine, guys,

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Speaker 1: this is a bit of a controversial subject there. There

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Speaker 1: are a lot of deeply held beliefs out there. I

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Speaker 1: have them, you have them, um, you know. But the

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Speaker 1: concept of ghost hunting, that we're looking out here, that

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Speaker 1: we're looking at here, it's it's been celebrated for years.

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Speaker 1: Over the centuries, people have been trying to figure out

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Speaker 1: what these things are, if they do exist, where are they?

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Speaker 1: And it's been dismissed largely by the modern Ivy Tower,

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Speaker 1: the academic mainstream, the scientific world. My pet name for

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Speaker 1: this episode is Strict's Favorite because our coworker Jonathan Strickland,

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Speaker 1: who collaborates with us frequently. Long time listeners, you probably

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Speaker 1: recognize him from some of our tech focused episodes. He

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Speaker 1: hates ghost hunting. He hates even bringing it up. It

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Speaker 1: irritates him. He doesn't like it when people speak it up.

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Speaker 1: Although I don't agree entirely with his perspective, he does

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Speaker 1: raise some valid points in these rants. First, as as

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Speaker 1: Matt said, there's no universally scientifically accepted or reproducible proof

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Speaker 1: of ghosts. What we mean by reproducible is that if there,

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Speaker 1: if there was some kind of proof of ghosts, and

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Speaker 1: that would mean that Noel could go into our hall

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Speaker 1: to studio and through uh correct ritual lighting candles, some

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Speaker 1: form of press diggitation perhaps yes, yes, just so through

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Speaker 1: some form be able to uh summon a ghost or

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Speaker 1: divine something or some interact with it with that, and

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Speaker 1: that would mean that you could go do the same thing,

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Speaker 1: which does lead one to believe that many of these

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Speaker 1: experiences are deeply personal and highly subjective. Yeah, therefore, right,

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Speaker 1: if these entities exist, So if there's no proof, then

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Speaker 1: it means that we don't know what we're testing and

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Speaker 1: we don't have that objectivity, right, because as as you said, no,

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Speaker 1: there's a personal subjective thing, and if we don't know

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Speaker 1: what comprises these entities, then we don't know what we're

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Speaker 1: really testing for. We also have no universal, uniform set

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Speaker 1: of criteria for what constitutes a ghost. I mean, there

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Speaker 1: are people that call themselves experts, as we're going to

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Speaker 1: get into in a little bit, that might say, oh,

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Speaker 1: this this range of electromagnetic interference, you know, means that

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Speaker 1: there was some sort of specter involved. But then somebody

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Speaker 1: else might say, no, no, no, I think it's more

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Speaker 1: this range. And since there's no actual proof, it's very

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Speaker 1: hard to figure out which range is the correct range

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Speaker 1: and using what tools, et cetera. Right, You'll often hear

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Speaker 1: about temperature drops, variations in electromagnetic fields and stuff like that,

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Speaker 1: but there's no question that these variations can have mundane causes. Now,

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Speaker 1: that's not to say that there aren't some pretty convincing

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Speaker 1: stories out there about some of these paranormal experiences and encounters.

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Speaker 1: And we're actually going to talk about some of the

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Speaker 1: most convincing, shall we say, um accounts of these from

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Speaker 1: two individuals who consider themselves experts in the field. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: a lot of people. Consider these two the experts, the

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Speaker 1: people that are talked about by History Channel and Discovery

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Speaker 1: or whoever makes a documentary on TV they talk about

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Speaker 1: these people, Ed and Lorraine warrant dunt dun't done? Actually,

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Speaker 1: nor can you do this sound effect? You're way better

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Speaker 1: with these. There we go, Noel Brown, Ladies and gentlemen,

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Speaker 1: Yes the rumors are true. This is our episode on

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Speaker 1: the famous slash inflamous UH demonologist medium duo self claimed

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Speaker 1: Ed and Lorraine Warren So. Ghost hunters or paranormal investigators.

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Speaker 1: What are they? They explore specific locations reported to be

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Speaker 1: hotbeds of supernatural activity, and in the course of their work,

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Speaker 1: these groups or individuals will research the history of an

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Speaker 1: area as extensively as possible. Did anyone die here? What happened?

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Speaker 1: Why was the population of this mental asylum reported to

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Speaker 1: be one oh eight one month and then one o

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Speaker 1: three the next month and with no record of departure?

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Speaker 1: Stuff like that, And then also conduct interviews with alleged

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Speaker 1: witnesses and or skeptics people on either side of the fence,

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Speaker 1: while also employing electronics, digital thermometers, uh, some pretty high

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Speaker 1: tech camera gear as well. We've all seen We've all

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Speaker 1: seen this set up before in film and on television.

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Speaker 1: So at the hard paranoral investigators and ghost hunters are

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Speaker 1: fact finders. That's what they're trying to do. They're getting

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Speaker 1: as much as information as they can, then going into

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Speaker 1: a place and then trying to find further information hopefully

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Speaker 1: they're looking for I mean, they are essentially tackling this

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Speaker 1: in the form of like a scientific question where they're

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Speaker 1: trying to come away with some sort of evidence that

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Speaker 1: can be quantified, you know, to show the proof of

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Speaker 1: you know, these events right and hopefully you know, hopefully

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Speaker 1: that this is a situation where someone is just looking

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Speaker 1: for the truth, not a pre confirmed belief. There are,

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Speaker 1: of course, we have to say this as as a

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Speaker 1: president almost any endeavor. There are of course Charlatan's goons,

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Speaker 1: confidence men and women who are building the gullible and

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Speaker 1: the credulous out of money by saying things like this

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Speaker 1: is tangentially related, but saying things like I can talk

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Speaker 1: to your dead mother and I know you miss her,

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Speaker 1: and she's in the room and she misses you as well.

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Speaker 1: She tells you something something about your your you're moving,

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Speaker 1: You're you're moving like in not not just in time

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Speaker 1: or space, but also emotionally. I'm getting a since Sharon Sharon, Yes, yeah,

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Speaker 1: Sharon Stone from the movie Basic Instinct. Oh, I think

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Speaker 1: the spirit is real, you guys a passing around and

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Speaker 1: saucy too. That was a pretty pretty blue movie. Oh

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Speaker 1: that's true, that's true. You know, funny piece of trivia. Apparently. Uh,

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Speaker 1: she only did that famous shot, that interview shot where

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Speaker 1: with the light crossing. Only did it because the director said, like,

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Speaker 1: we're not gonna don't worry, none of nothing indecent will

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Speaker 1: be the shot because of the way we'll frame it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we're in a tight shot, don't worry. So she was

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Speaker 1: unfortunately swindled. Yep. And maybe and you know that's that's

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Speaker 1: similar somehow, speaking fantastic segways to ghost hunting as an

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Speaker 1: act of Charlatan's. But there are other kinds of ghost hunters, right, Yeah, sure,

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Speaker 1: there are the skeptical ones that are going in to

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Speaker 1: try and dispel some of these beliefs of people, let's say,

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Speaker 1: who live in a house that they personally believe is haunted,

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Speaker 1: to come in and say, hey, look, the feeling that

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Speaker 1: you're getting is because of the electromagnetic radiation coming off

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Speaker 1: of this one device in your house. It's it's not

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Speaker 1: a big problem. That sound you're hearing is actually water

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Speaker 1: dropping in this pipe over here, and that's kind of

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Speaker 1: their purpose of going in in the first place. It's

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Speaker 1: only the wind, yeah, right. And of course we know

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Speaker 1: that not all skeptics are equal. There are some people

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Speaker 1: who are doing fantastic work and actually making the world

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Speaker 1: a more transparent, easily understood place. And then are people

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Speaker 1: who have like a weird emotional thing, like something happened

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Speaker 1: to them when they're a kid, and they want an

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Speaker 1: excuse to feel righteously indignant about it, which is like

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Speaker 1: you can support a good cause and not be a jerk.

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Speaker 1: So how long have people been hunting ghosts? Though? Well,

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Speaker 1: the search for ghosts, the search for paranormal activity, paranormal

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Speaker 1: experiences is totally inextricably bound up with this quest, this

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Speaker 1: idea that we need proof of the afterlife, which is

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Speaker 1: a powerful impulse, I mean, you know, and then it

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Speaker 1: goes across religions and social you know, status is I mean,

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Speaker 1: it is something that a lot of human beings are

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Speaker 1: universally fascinated with and you know, engaged in a search

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Speaker 1: for answers about and so from this perspective we can

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Speaker 1: say that ghost hunting is likely as old as religion itself,

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Speaker 1: as the idea of having faith in something that you

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Speaker 1: can't see that somehow guides your path. You know, that's

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Speaker 1: a good point. And so the roots of what would

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Speaker 1: ultimately become what we know as modern ghost hunting um

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Speaker 1: you can see these in the works of a guy

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Speaker 1: named Emmanuel Swedenborg, who's best known for a book called

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Speaker 1: Heaven and Hell, a treatise on the afterlife, which was

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Speaker 1: published in seventeen fifty eight. And then there's Friends Mesmer,

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Speaker 1: a another proponent of ghost hunting in parapsychological investigation into

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Speaker 1: psychic phenomenon. Mesmer you might say that name sounds familiar.

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Speaker 1: He is the founder of Mesmerism, which is of course

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Speaker 1: the the the demo reel for what would later be

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Speaker 1: called hypnosis. And then you've got lots of other professionals

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Speaker 1: who kind of come out from the word works here,

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Speaker 1: who will put on shows, who will you know, uh,

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Speaker 1: conjuror talk to a ghost for money and you know,

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Speaker 1: get paid and kind of kind of be like a

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Speaker 1: parlor show or something like that. And then there's a

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Speaker 1: history of that that goes forward until we get to

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Speaker 1: the point where there are these amateur groups of people

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Speaker 1: who get together and want to do the same thing

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Speaker 1: that these people are doing because they believe it to

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Speaker 1: be true, not not because they want to do a

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Speaker 1: stage show. Right, So, organized amateur ghost hunting dates back

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Speaker 1: to these clubs that arose during the spiritualist era, the

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Speaker 1: time of the Theosophy school. But these these clubs that

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Speaker 1: sprang up very Victorian in nature, places like the London

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Speaker 1: Ghost Club or the Society for Psychic Research. Critics have

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Speaker 1: lobbed numerous allegations against these folks and said their modern

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Speaker 1: descendants not really scientific in nature, that they're calling them

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Speaker 1: instead like pseudo mystics. And they called these the modern

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Speaker 1: versions of this techno mystics, which is pretty cool. I

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Speaker 1: like that a lot. That's a band name if I've

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Speaker 1: ever heard one. And in contrast, academic parapsychological institutions or

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Speaker 1: groups are trying to maintain a solid methodology and application

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Speaker 1: of the scientific method and they've made some progress in

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Speaker 1: this kind of field, and that's where we found out

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Speaker 1: about stuff like infrasounds. So we also know that um,

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Speaker 1: we also know that there's been this strange love hate

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Speaker 1: relationship between allegations of psychic phenomenon and application of science.

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Speaker 1: Right even in eighteen fifty three, a guy named Robert Hare,

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Speaker 1: who was a chemist by trade, said he was experimenting

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Speaker 1: with mediums and reported positive results. But we've also seen

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Speaker 1: people who say, you know, I've investigated this and I

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Speaker 1: found a mondane cause. And you know, it's sad that

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Speaker 1: we didn't find a ghost this time, but it's good

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Speaker 1: that we know what happens. So which camp do? Ed

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Speaker 1: and Lorraine Warren fall into let's let's meet these folks.

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Speaker 1: Who are they actually? So? Before Ed passed away in

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Speaker 1: August of two thousand and six, he and his wife

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Speaker 1: Lorraine were a husband and wife duo team of paranormal investigators.

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Speaker 1: Ed Warren was born in He was a retired police

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Speaker 1: officer and a Navy veteran and a self taught Demonologist's

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Speaker 1: how he described himself. Lorraine was born in one year apart,

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Speaker 1: and she claimed to have clairvoyant powers and could function

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Speaker 1: as a medium. And she said, demonology is just what

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Speaker 1: it sounds like, a systematic study of demons or beliefs,

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Speaker 1: so it doesn't it's a branch of three theology, but

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Speaker 1: it doesn't necessarily mean um, you can be a demonologist

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Speaker 1: in a purely academic way. You don't have to believe

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Speaker 1: in demons to be one. Now, this couple, you have

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Speaker 1: probably heard of several of the cases that they've looked

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Speaker 1: at that they've garnered national attention. There's been things written

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Speaker 1: about some of these cases in mainstream media and on

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Speaker 1: ABC News, I mean main major places have talked about

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Speaker 1: the cases that this couple is covered, especially through the

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Speaker 1: seventies and eighties into the nineties. They founded New England's

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Speaker 1: oldest paranormal research center in nineteen fifty two. It is

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Speaker 1: the New England Society for Psychic Research. And Haye, do

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Speaker 1: you like museums. They've got an awesome museum. Noll I

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Speaker 1: do like museums. Actually, I'm quite fond of them. You

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Speaker 1: should check it out for listeners who might want to

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Speaker 1: take a look. You can actually visit the Warren's Occult

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Speaker 1: Museum in Monroe, Connecticut, and you can find out more

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Speaker 1: about that at Warren's dot net. That's w A R

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Speaker 1: R E N S dot net four A D two

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Speaker 1: Monroe Turnpike, zip code zero six four six eight. For

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Speaker 1: those of you interested in a road trip, we assume

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Speaker 1: if you live in the area, you probably already heard

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Speaker 1: about this. I think, look, I'm gonna say it. I

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Speaker 1: think we have to go there, guys. It's it's our

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Speaker 1: duty to go and shoot some stuff. They're filled at us, right.

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Speaker 1: But before we go there, it's time for a word

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Speaker 1: from our sponsors. Here's where it gets crazy. We've teased

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Speaker 1: a bit about these cases that garner national attention, but

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Speaker 1: we haven't talked too much about them. Some of these

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Speaker 1: captured the public's attention as as you said, Matt, and

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Speaker 1: they've become films and pieces of modern American folklore. We

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Speaker 1: could just name some films that have been based on

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Speaker 1: these cases right now, if you want. Sure. The Amityville

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Speaker 1: Horror was the biggest one that I remember, at least

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Speaker 1: the Amityville Horror two was probably is it Aville Horror?

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Speaker 1: Three D? Right, So, this entire Amityville film series also

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Speaker 1: spawned a series of novels. Right, Oh, excuse me, It's

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Speaker 1: Amityville to the Possession And yes, there definitely is Amityville

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Speaker 1: three D. Yeah, you guys gotta check out the cover.

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Speaker 1: It's an alien claw reaching out of a like a

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Speaker 1: window in this house, and it's like this Fox three

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Speaker 1: D poster warning in this movie you are the victim

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Speaker 1: Amityville three D. That's the Claud's coming. It's kind of off.

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Speaker 1: It's good. Check it out. What a great time to

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Speaker 1: be alive. I wish I could have gone to a

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Speaker 1: theater with a three D film like that. Uh man,

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Speaker 1: I wish I wasn't born in eighty three. What a

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Speaker 1: time to be alive. So the most recent one is

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Speaker 1: Amityville The Awakening, which is due to come out in

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Speaker 1: January of next year. And then there's also The Conjuring, Right,

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Speaker 1: the Conjuring two. I think that's coming, Yes, yeah, the

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Speaker 1: Conjuring two is on the way. The Conjuring two is

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Speaker 1: based on the Infield Poltergeist. All right, so let's talk

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Speaker 1: about what Amityville actually was. What what are we What

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Speaker 1: are we mean when we say Amityville. What we're referencing

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Speaker 1: directly is a town in the Long Island, New York

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Speaker 1: in a house. So in this house, one twelve Ocean

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Speaker 1: Avenue in Long Island, in Amityville, fellow named Ronald Dafao Jr.

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Speaker 1: Shot and killed six members of his family he was

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Speaker 1: convicted of second degree murder in nineteen and in December

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Speaker 1: of that same year, another family moved in, George and

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Speaker 1: Cathy Lutts and their three children. They lived there for

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Speaker 1: about a month and then they left and they said

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Speaker 1: that they were terrorized by paranormal phenomenon. So, according to

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Speaker 1: this is where the Warrens come in. According to the Warrens,

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Speaker 1: some events happened a core into the Lutz family. Some

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Speaker 1: other events happen. According to to Fail, who is alive

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Speaker 1: and in jail. As we record this, another separate events happen.

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Speaker 1: So the stories begin to diverge, and that's something we

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Speaker 1: find often in these paranormal cases. If you want to

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Speaker 1: read the Warran's account, you can visit their website Warren's

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Speaker 1: dot Net. They have a special section for Amityville. So

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Speaker 1: the Lutz family described the following things right. According to

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Speaker 1: the Warrens, uh, things start to go wrong from the jump.

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Speaker 1: A Catholic priest comes while the family's unpacking to bless

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Speaker 1: the home. He gets to the second floor and he

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Speaker 1: hears a voice screaming get out. When he is sprinkling

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Speaker 1: holy water around the place. He didn't tell them about

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Speaker 1: the voice. Though, that's the thing. Apparently he didn't say anything.

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Speaker 1: It's just an everyday life, life experience. You don't have

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Speaker 1: weird bimming voices coming to you irregular time. They're usually you,

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Speaker 1: I'm nusually responding to the one that I'm hearing. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, Oh oh okay. When the we're all good,

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Speaker 1: I think we should we could all work on the

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Speaker 1: better listeners. I certainly could. Huh. So this priest that

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Speaker 1: didn't say anything, but he did apparently warn them, do

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Speaker 1: not use the upstairs room as a bedroom. Don't let

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Speaker 1: anyone sleep in there. And as we know in horror

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Speaker 1: movies and ever someone's running away from a demon or monster,

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Speaker 1: they always run upstairs, right right, don't try to make

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Speaker 1: it to the camera, just hide in the closet. So so,

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Speaker 1: just really quickly put it into context. This is when

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Speaker 1: this family moved in. It was only thirteen thirteen months,

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Speaker 1: or it was just a little bit of time after

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Speaker 1: six people had been shot and killed in this same house.

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Speaker 1: And whether or not, whether or not it actually you know,

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Speaker 1: causes some kind of haunting to occur, an awful act

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Speaker 1: like that that does something psychologically, I think to a

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Speaker 1: human being with having that knowledge just walking around a

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Speaker 1: place where six people died extremely recently. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I'm I'm as I'm looking, as I'm hearing all of

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Speaker 1: this stuff, and we're going over the story. I'm keeping

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Speaker 1: that as a lens, like, no matter what I believe

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Speaker 1: is happening there, there is certainly psychological there. There are

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Speaker 1: certainly psychological effects playing on this family's mind. Right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I see what you're saying. And then there's the argument

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Speaker 1: too that perhaps certain traumatic events can leave some sort

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Speaker 1: of immaterial but real residue. Right. So, George was plagued

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Speaker 1: by a constant chill and he just hung around the fireplace. Uh.

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Speaker 1: He also got a little bit uh messier over time,

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Speaker 1: is hygiene really started to fail him and Kathy's health,

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Speaker 1: along with his, was in decline. Their daughters started spending

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Speaker 1: all their time in a room playing with an imaginary

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Speaker 1: friend who was a red eyed pig called Jody and

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Speaker 1: could transform and see and could only be seen by

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Speaker 1: people that she wanted to see her. That's according to Jody.

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Speaker 1: Mysterious odors, black stains on toilets and ceramic fixtures. A

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Speaker 1: k A. I'm just gonna make the call on that one.

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Speaker 1: A k a mold. Yeah. I was about to say, right,

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Speaker 1: that's not necessarily just a little scrubbing. Who yeah, scrubbing bubbles.

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Speaker 1: So uh flies. The one thing you might remember some

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Speaker 1: of the films is that a bunch of flies appeared

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Speaker 1: out of out of the middle of nowhere. Sounds like

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Speaker 1: they just needed a housekeeper, like they needed you know, yeah,

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Speaker 1: flies are there roaches where they're terrifying roaches. Apparently there

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Speaker 1: was a George maintains that his wife turned into a

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Speaker 1: ninety year old hag and began levitating off the bed

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Speaker 1: one night. But again, these stories, this, this is coming

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Speaker 1: from the warrants, and these stories are mutable and have

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Speaker 1: changed over time. Anyway, there was the account of the

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Speaker 1: spooky crumbs, you know, in the kitchen at you know, No,

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Speaker 1: I get the feeling that you're not buying this, no,

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Speaker 1: And I'm just trying to you know, narrow down the

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Speaker 1: source here. I mean, it sounds like a lot of

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Speaker 1: this was definitely, you know, housekeeping based. I'm just right right. Uh. So,

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Speaker 1: they couldn't get the priests to come back because every

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Speaker 1: time they tried to call them, the phones we cut out,

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Speaker 1: according to them, So they walked around themselves trying to

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Speaker 1: I guess, purify it by reciting prayers, and then they

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Speaker 1: said a course of voices erupted telling them to stop.

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Speaker 1: At the last night, there's all this banging uh in

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Speaker 1: the house as though marching bands are going there. Furniture

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Speaker 1: is moving on its own, so they leave, which, you know,

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Speaker 1: I understand if you are in a situation and feel

423
00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:00,840
Speaker 1: that way. I think we've all seen a horror movies

424
00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:03,640
Speaker 1: where we're not going to do that thing. When you say,

425
00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:08,000
Speaker 1: oh no, let's stay or where's that strange noise coming

426
00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:12,359
Speaker 1: from run to odd the noise? Well, yeah, you gotta

427
00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:16,680
Speaker 1: investigate you you split up too, you gotta split up.

428
00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:19,800
Speaker 1: You guys stay here or have with this. You go

429
00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:23,160
Speaker 1: to the basement and I'll go upstairs, and then we'll

430
00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:26,520
Speaker 1: we'll meet in the middle and we'll discuss what we've learned.

431
00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:29,960
Speaker 1: I'm you know what, I'm gonna take this flashlight. The

432
00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:31,800
Speaker 1: batteries are dying, but I'll be right back. I'll just

433
00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:34,000
Speaker 1: give it a shake and it will make for some

434
00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:37,600
Speaker 1: kind of like Stroby flashes, give it goes a chance

435
00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:40,320
Speaker 1: to appear. So this is I mean, this is this

436
00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:44,160
Speaker 1: is perfect because we know these horror movie rules which

437
00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:47,760
Speaker 1: show up in the Amityville horror series, but not in

438
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:52,800
Speaker 1: the real life Amityville. You know, on their one twelve ocean. So,

439
00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:56,480
Speaker 1: twenty days after the lutz Is leave the place, Ed

440
00:27:56,600 --> 00:28:00,280
Speaker 1: and Lorraine Warren are called by a news report with

441
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:03,120
Speaker 1: Channel five in New York, a guy named Marvin Scott.

442
00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:06,919
Speaker 1: He had covered the story before. He worked with the

443
00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:14,200
Speaker 1: Warrens on a on a previous investigation. So the Warrens reporters,

444
00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:19,760
Speaker 1: some parapsychologists get together at the house. The Lutz family

445
00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:24,320
Speaker 1: refuses to go back in the home. And here's their account.

446
00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:29,359
Speaker 1: And so remember we said Ed is a self taught demonologist.

447
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:33,879
Speaker 1: Lorraine claims to be clairvoyant and work as a medium

448
00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:38,080
Speaker 1: in their team. So Ed was, according to the Warrens,

449
00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:41,600
Speaker 1: physically pushed to the floor while using a religious provocation

450
00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:45,160
Speaker 1: in the basement. Lorraine was overwhelmed by the sense of

451
00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:48,960
Speaker 1: a demonic presence and was plagued by our psychic impressions

452
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:51,760
Speaker 1: of the Dao families being laid on the floor covered

453
00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:55,280
Speaker 1: in white sheets, with a sense of being physically pushed back.

454
00:28:55,400 --> 00:29:00,400
Speaker 1: So to our earlier point, these are personal impress sans

455
00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:05,440
Speaker 1: being described right, These are not, at least on the

456
00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:09,680
Speaker 1: warrants parts. These are not objective measurements. Now if they

457
00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:14,040
Speaker 1: had sit parapsychologists measuring stuff, uh, did they see temperature

458
00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:17,680
Speaker 1: drops things like that? The most important thing to note

459
00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:21,360
Speaker 1: about the warrants here is that they are true believers,

460
00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:27,520
Speaker 1: their devout Catholics. They are not going in skeptically there.

461
00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:30,720
Speaker 1: You know, religion would be one of the tools that

462
00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:34,320
Speaker 1: they used to try to subdue or remove or erase

463
00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:39,200
Speaker 1: some sort of presence. So they also say the land

464
00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:41,880
Speaker 1: was in the past used by a fellow named John

465
00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:45,960
Speaker 1: Ketchum in the course of their historical research, uh, black

466
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:49,640
Speaker 1: magician who had a cottage on the land prior to

467
00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:54,240
Speaker 1: the construction of the house in twenty four and that

468
00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:57,360
Speaker 1: he requested to be buried on the property and his

469
00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:01,480
Speaker 1: remains are there to this day. Who That's not uncommon.

470
00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:03,920
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, a lot of times people who

471
00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:06,880
Speaker 1: had a state would have an exact range for them

472
00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:08,920
Speaker 1: to be buried in the backyard and with like a

473
00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:11,720
Speaker 1: private cemetery, maybe next to some mother family members that

474
00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:15,160
Speaker 1: died right exactly, especially you know, as you said, and

475
00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:18,920
Speaker 1: in place that has a lot of land. Right, So

476
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:24,600
Speaker 1: the problems that we run into here are that the

477
00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:29,640
Speaker 1: stories again are mutable, are changeable. Uh. And we have

478
00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:35,040
Speaker 1: Ronald de Fao Jr. Who killed his father, his mother,

479
00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:39,480
Speaker 1: to his two brothers and his two sisters. He claimed

480
00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:45,760
Speaker 1: that they were planning to kill him, that his parents

481
00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:50,800
Speaker 1: were and in the course of his in the course

482
00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:55,480
Speaker 1: of the investigation his conviction as appeals things like that

483
00:30:56,240 --> 00:31:00,920
Speaker 1: his lawyer launched, uh the insanity defense right got a

484
00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:04,080
Speaker 1: psychiatrist to back it up. They said that the Fao

485
00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:10,320
Speaker 1: was abusing heroin LSD, he had antisocial personality disorder. Uh.

486
00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:14,560
Speaker 1: But with all that, the psychiatrists for the prosecution Dr

487
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:17,880
Speaker 1: Harold Zolan said, well, he knew what he was doing.

488
00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:20,960
Speaker 1: Here's the weird part. Though. All six of the victims

489
00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:24,000
Speaker 1: were found laying on their stomachs, no signs of a struggle,

490
00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:28,720
Speaker 1: and the rifle had not been fitted with a sound suppressor,

491
00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:34,800
Speaker 1: so they heard each person whoever was last heard five shots. Uh.

492
00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:39,040
Speaker 1: There were no sedatives, it seemed, so someone should have

493
00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:42,800
Speaker 1: been awakened by the scale of it. And the medical

494
00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:45,960
Speaker 1: investigators were like, how did this happen so fast? You know?

495
00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:52,080
Speaker 1: And he also claimed, let's he claimed that his parents

496
00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:54,440
Speaker 1: are going to kill him. Then he claimed that he

497
00:31:54,880 --> 00:32:00,040
Speaker 1: killed his father for life insurance. He also tried to

498
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:04,160
Speaker 1: say that he had personal things like marriages that later

499
00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:07,400
Speaker 1: turned out not to be true, and over the years

500
00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:12,760
Speaker 1: he has changed his story frequents frequently, so frequently in fact,

501
00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:16,520
Speaker 1: that it's hard to know what actually happened other than

502
00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:22,360
Speaker 1: that he killed the people. As for the allegations of

503
00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:26,239
Speaker 1: supernatural phenomenon, what we are seen and said is that

504
00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:31,200
Speaker 1: there's a history of drug abuse, and drugs, as we know,

505
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:34,400
Speaker 1: can either some will say, bring you to a greater

506
00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:38,560
Speaker 1: new reality or just blur the line between the exterior

507
00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:43,480
Speaker 1: and the interior of your mind. At this point, Amityville

508
00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:48,920
Speaker 1: is not considered proof positive but of anything other than

509
00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:54,320
Speaker 1: an excellent ghost story and the mutability of memory. There

510
00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:57,800
Speaker 1: are a couple of interesting physical takeaways I know. One

511
00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:00,920
Speaker 1: of them was a photo that the Warrens allegedly got

512
00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:03,880
Speaker 1: of a little boy I think, or at least a

513
00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:08,120
Speaker 1: spirit that they say was manifested as a little boy,

514
00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:11,080
Speaker 1: and it's on their website. You can see it. It

515
00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:13,240
Speaker 1: looks like a photo of a little boy. I mean,

516
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:16,000
Speaker 1: I don't know how much of a spirit it is,

517
00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:18,240
Speaker 1: but allegedly there wasn't any There weren't any kids in

518
00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:20,280
Speaker 1: the house at the time when they shot it. I

519
00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:22,880
Speaker 1: don't know if this is the originating point of the

520
00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:28,560
Speaker 1: idea of an Native American use of land that then

521
00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:33,960
Speaker 1: affects the modern construction, but they did believe that and

522
00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:38,080
Speaker 1: a tribe of Indians use that land for I think

523
00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:41,600
Speaker 1: for sick or not insane. They wouldn't have used the

524
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:45,080
Speaker 1: word insane with Native Americans, but they used it. They

525
00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:47,640
Speaker 1: used that land to house people who are sick, and

526
00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:51,320
Speaker 1: the warrants believed that this may have led to negative

527
00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:53,560
Speaker 1: energy being in that house. I don't know. I just

528
00:33:53,600 --> 00:34:00,480
Speaker 1: think it's it's it's important to see it from there aspective,

529
00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:03,640
Speaker 1: as they are probably true believers. I want to say,

530
00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:08,759
Speaker 1: at least in these kinds of things right and you know, well,

531
00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:11,480
Speaker 1: there's there are other things too. So de Feo told

532
00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:16,120
Speaker 1: Prime Time that he initially said I heard voices, those void,

533
00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:19,440
Speaker 1: those booming voices, commanded me to kill And later he

534
00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:22,200
Speaker 1: went on Prime Time and said that he was making

535
00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:25,319
Speaker 1: that up to get a better insanity. Please je Uh.

536
00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:31,040
Speaker 1: The one of the lawyers who was involved said he

537
00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:35,920
Speaker 1: was the famous attorney William webber Uh. He was looking

538
00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:40,680
Speaker 1: for book proposals from his client's story, and he met

539
00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:43,960
Speaker 1: with George and Cathy Lutts, and he says that he

540
00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:50,240
Speaker 1: thinks they were essentially just making up stuff and that

541
00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:54,080
Speaker 1: they were making a commercial venture out of it. The

542
00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:57,040
Speaker 1: whole thing. Well, he said that when he talked to them,

543
00:34:57,880 --> 00:34:59,880
Speaker 1: they end he said, they end up hanging out and

544
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:04,520
Speaker 1: drinking and brainstorming about what could go into a horror book. Well,

545
00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:08,400
Speaker 1: I mean, at least I guess they're making lemonade right style.

546
00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:12,840
Speaker 1: Perhaps you're right, perhaps you're right. Uh. And then they split,

547
00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:16,880
Speaker 1: and that's why they're two varying accounts. The big one

548
00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:21,520
Speaker 1: is Amityville Horror, a true story. Uh, and it went

549
00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:25,160
Speaker 1: through thirteen printings and seventy six. But here's here's the thing.

550
00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:30,480
Speaker 1: When they talk, the medium talks about was hands hands.

551
00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:34,680
Speaker 1: Holtzer goes with a medium who claims to talk to

552
00:35:34,719 --> 00:35:37,759
Speaker 1: the dead and seventy seven the medium says, Uh, there's

553
00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:41,319
Speaker 1: an Indian chief, Native American chief on the war path

554
00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:43,560
Speaker 1: in the house because it has been built on the

555
00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:47,000
Speaker 1: site of that sacred burial ground you mentioned matt Um.

556
00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:50,920
Speaker 1: And then members of the Montalket tribe of Long Island

557
00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:54,000
Speaker 1: are skeptical because they say there are no records of

558
00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:58,200
Speaker 1: a burial ground in Amityville. H And even if there were,

559
00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:02,160
Speaker 1: said the tribes chiefs straight Arrow Cooper, that doesn't mean

560
00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:05,080
Speaker 1: we will go into somebody's body and capture their soul

561
00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:08,080
Speaker 1: and control in a very negative way. That's not us.

562
00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:13,360
Speaker 1: One last detail on Amityville. No one who has lived

563
00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:16,640
Speaker 1: in the house on Ocean Avenue since the lutz is

564
00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:22,600
Speaker 1: has reported any unusual activity, which is, you know, which

565
00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:31,000
Speaker 1: is a a fairly powerful thing. Oddly enough for both

566
00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:34,520
Speaker 1: sides of the argument, right where there never any ghost,

567
00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:41,360
Speaker 1: did the Warrens and company exorcize or cleans clean the house?

568
00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:46,400
Speaker 1: What's the thing where you burn sage? What's they called smudging? Smudging? Yeah, okay,

569
00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:48,160
Speaker 1: can you tell us a little bit about smudging. I mean,

570
00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:50,640
Speaker 1: it's just, you know, basically, it's meant to be a

571
00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:53,640
Speaker 1: cleansing ritual um where you burn the sage and just

572
00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:57,600
Speaker 1: walk around your house, and it's supposed to cleanses your

573
00:36:57,719 --> 00:37:02,120
Speaker 1: environment of any bad voters. It's now it actually smells

574
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:07,640
Speaker 1: pretty bad, opinion, it does push out some of the negativity.

575
00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:20,920
Speaker 1: Let's go to another case. If you travel to their museum,

576
00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:25,719
Speaker 1: you will see a very special raggedy and doll named Annabelle.

577
00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:30,560
Speaker 1: This doll is, according to the Warrens, haunted, and you

578
00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:34,560
Speaker 1: can see it in various documentaries about the Warrens. Yes,

579
00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:38,400
Speaker 1: not the the Annabelle doll that's featured in the major

580
00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:43,240
Speaker 1: motion picture looks nothing like what this Annabelle doll actually

581
00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:46,480
Speaker 1: looks like. Um, the one of the major Pusher motion

582
00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:50,520
Speaker 1: picture has more of the human characteristics. It almost looks porcelain,

583
00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:54,120
Speaker 1: more of an uncanny valley thing. Yeah, the the actual

584
00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:58,320
Speaker 1: Annabelle doll. It's got red hair, it's knitted, it looks

585
00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:04,040
Speaker 1: like um triangle nose values very much not human, a

586
00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:07,400
Speaker 1: caricature of what a doll looks like. And but it

587
00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:10,319
Speaker 1: is huge, at least comparatively to a lot of other

588
00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:12,640
Speaker 1: dolls that I've seen. So a student nurse was given

589
00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:16,200
Speaker 1: this raggedy and all in nineteen seventy, but it behaved strangely,

590
00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:19,840
Speaker 1: and so psychic told the told the nurse that the

591
00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:23,160
Speaker 1: doll was inhabited by the spirit of a dead girl

592
00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:27,160
Speaker 1: named Annabelle Higgins, thus the name Annabelle. They tried to

593
00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:30,320
Speaker 1: accept and nurture the spirit possessed all. According to the warrants,

594
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:34,080
Speaker 1: but it's all behaved maliciously. So they contacted the warrants,

595
00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:37,919
Speaker 1: who removed the doll to their museum after determining through

596
00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:41,520
Speaker 1: their investigation that it was demonically possessed. So it started

597
00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:44,680
Speaker 1: off really slow and and not really much happening. The

598
00:38:44,719 --> 00:38:48,719
Speaker 1: doll would appear on the bed when I guess they

599
00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:50,839
Speaker 1: believed they had left it on the couch, or they

600
00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:53,640
Speaker 1: had left it on the couch. It would be standing

601
00:38:53,719 --> 00:38:56,680
Speaker 1: up at the kitchen table, which you know could be

602
00:38:56,719 --> 00:38:59,120
Speaker 1: odd if you come home from work or school or

603
00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:02,279
Speaker 1: whatever and you find this doll standing there. Um. At

604
00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:05,040
Speaker 1: one point I think the doll had blood or at

605
00:39:05,080 --> 00:39:07,680
Speaker 1: least what looks like blood on its hands and on

606
00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:11,680
Speaker 1: its chest. Um, it got a little funky, right, this

607
00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:15,000
Speaker 1: is uh, this is again according to him. What critics.

608
00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:17,400
Speaker 1: I guess we'll get to the critics later. We'll just

609
00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:21,120
Speaker 1: give their their version of the events. Yeah, so apparently

610
00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:25,279
Speaker 1: moved on its own. It was creepy. There was blood involved.

611
00:39:25,560 --> 00:39:28,200
Speaker 1: They would do the things you see with the with

612
00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:32,160
Speaker 1: the trope of a haunted or possessed doll in horror films. Right,

613
00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:35,160
Speaker 1: you leave it there, you walk back in and all

614
00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:37,400
Speaker 1: of a sudden, it's and it's sitting in the chair

615
00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:40,560
Speaker 1: right or you throw it away, you throw it. Noel

616
00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:44,280
Speaker 1: Brown throws it out the cars he's driving across Connecticut,

617
00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:46,520
Speaker 1: and then when he gets back home to Atlanta, he

618
00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:48,680
Speaker 1: opens the door and who's sitting there? Yeah, no, I

619
00:39:48,719 --> 00:39:53,040
Speaker 1: think it's on the stoop. Just uh. There's this guy,

620
00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:57,160
Speaker 1: Lou at least according to their stories, who's a friend,

621
00:39:57,280 --> 00:40:01,560
Speaker 1: like an acquaintance, I guess. And he apparently disliked this

622
00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:04,600
Speaker 1: doll from the start. He he he thought the thing was evil.

623
00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:08,600
Speaker 1: Maybe he just didn't like dolls, who's to say, but

624
00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:13,200
Speaker 1: he he believed that he had a well I'm gonna

625
00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:15,200
Speaker 1: I'm gonna tell you that the side of the story,

626
00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:18,040
Speaker 1: and just see if you listeners out there, see if

627
00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:21,600
Speaker 1: this triggers anything from one of our past episodes. As

628
00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:26,520
Speaker 1: he was falling asleep, he said he felt paralyzed and

629
00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:29,080
Speaker 1: he could move it all. And then he saw the

630
00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:31,560
Speaker 1: doll down at the base of the bed and it

631
00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:34,319
Speaker 1: started to move up his body and it tried to

632
00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:37,360
Speaker 1: choke him, and he was he felt like he was strangling,

633
00:40:37,640 --> 00:40:41,920
Speaker 1: and then he woke up or he you know, he

634
00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:44,600
Speaker 1: says he lost consciousness and then he woke up and

635
00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:47,200
Speaker 1: the doll wasn't there. That sounds exactly like the accounts

636
00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:51,120
Speaker 1: people give of their sleep paralysis and shadow people coming

637
00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:53,400
Speaker 1: to them in the night. Yeah, and if he already

638
00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:56,600
Speaker 1: has this dislike of this doll, maybe it is his

639
00:40:56,760 --> 00:41:00,000
Speaker 1: nightmare that's manifesting. Absolutely even in the shadow people store

640
00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:03,360
Speaker 1: is I mean, the form of the creature or entity

641
00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:06,239
Speaker 1: or presence did change from one or the other. I

642
00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:09,239
Speaker 1: mean it's dark, so it's gonna feel shadowy. But I mean, yeah,

643
00:41:09,239 --> 00:41:13,000
Speaker 1: there were definitely accounts of different shaped things and you know,

644
00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:15,400
Speaker 1: creatures or whatever. That's fast, And I don't mean to

645
00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:18,359
Speaker 1: discount his story, It just sounds so similar that I

646
00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:20,880
Speaker 1: think you had to mention it, right. And then we

647
00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:26,279
Speaker 1: notice again that in these accounts there are Here's the thing.

648
00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:30,239
Speaker 1: In these accounts, a lot of the evidence or experience

649
00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:35,080
Speaker 1: is described as a personal sensation. I felt physically pushed back.

650
00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:38,280
Speaker 1: I felt like something was climbing on me. I felt

651
00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:42,439
Speaker 1: a presence. Uh did you know? I felt the temperature drop.

652
00:41:42,520 --> 00:41:47,120
Speaker 1: But there was not a thermometer around. So the vast

653
00:41:47,160 --> 00:41:50,319
Speaker 1: majority of the Waren's physical evidence is found in photographs. Right,

654
00:41:50,360 --> 00:41:53,080
Speaker 1: They have all these ghost shots taken by them. People

655
00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:57,000
Speaker 1: work for them. Uh. They there's a restaurant called the

656
00:41:57,040 --> 00:42:00,640
Speaker 1: Carousel Restaurant that has a collection of some of the

657
00:42:00,719 --> 00:42:05,520
Speaker 1: photographs because the Warrens were regulars there. According to skeptics,

658
00:42:05,560 --> 00:42:08,080
Speaker 1: most of these are just blobs of light on film

659
00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:14,480
Speaker 1: and that there dozen ways this could happen accidentally or purposefully.

660
00:42:15,080 --> 00:42:19,359
Speaker 1: The and then they also have video evidence, right, the

661
00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:22,359
Speaker 1: biggest one is a video of someone called the White

662
00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:27,279
Speaker 1: Lady of Union Cemetery in eastern Connecticut. Uh. It's only

663
00:42:27,480 --> 00:42:31,680
Speaker 1: viewable at the Warren's home, at least it was. And

664
00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:37,839
Speaker 1: apparently they said they couldn't give various objects to skeptics

665
00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:42,360
Speaker 1: for analysis, and skeptics would say that that means that

666
00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:45,960
Speaker 1: it's not legit. But then also again, depending on what

667
00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:49,400
Speaker 1: kind of people these skeptics are, maybe they would just

668
00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:56,080
Speaker 1: destroy it, right, you know. Uh they They did, however,

669
00:42:56,120 --> 00:42:58,680
Speaker 1: give one team of skeptics a piece of video evidence

670
00:42:58,719 --> 00:43:02,120
Speaker 1: that showed someone de materializing taken by a mount of

671
00:43:02,160 --> 00:43:03,960
Speaker 1: camera in a dining room in the middle of night.

672
00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:07,239
Speaker 1: On the tape, a young man walks in room, scratches

673
00:43:07,239 --> 00:43:11,279
Speaker 1: his head and poof disappears and minutes followed by a

674
00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:16,960
Speaker 1: ghost light. They took this and analyzed it and took

675
00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:19,719
Speaker 1: it to a place called the HB Group, And here's

676
00:43:19,719 --> 00:43:21,640
Speaker 1: a quote from them. We're witnessing a wipe in this

677
00:43:21,719 --> 00:43:24,160
Speaker 1: segment of videotape. Although there are several different ways in

678
00:43:24,239 --> 00:43:27,400
Speaker 1: video editing to achieve a wiping effect, the most simple

679
00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:30,640
Speaker 1: ways has been employed here. Deliberately or accidentally. The camcorders

680
00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:33,160
Speaker 1: stopped recording on the final frame of the person in

681
00:43:33,160 --> 00:43:36,160
Speaker 1: the room and resumed recording just a few seconds after

682
00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:38,360
Speaker 1: the person moved outside of the view of the camera.

683
00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:41,399
Speaker 1: On a related observation, the properties of light alone could

684
00:43:41,440 --> 00:43:44,239
Speaker 1: dictate a hundred different explanations for the mysterious thought of

685
00:43:44,320 --> 00:43:47,200
Speaker 1: light that appears seconds after the man vanishes. However, I

686
00:43:47,239 --> 00:43:50,120
Speaker 1: believe this was caused by a reflection through the dining

687
00:43:50,520 --> 00:43:54,040
Speaker 1: room window of the headlights of a passing car. The

688
00:43:54,120 --> 00:43:56,120
Speaker 1: headlights can be seen if you watch the right hand

689
00:43:56,120 --> 00:43:58,239
Speaker 1: side of the screen, just before the dot of light

690
00:43:58,640 --> 00:44:02,520
Speaker 1: fades out. That's kind of stuff. I love analyzing a

691
00:44:02,520 --> 00:44:05,879
Speaker 1: piece of video or a photograph like that. I mean,

692
00:44:06,360 --> 00:44:08,480
Speaker 1: it's kind of stinks because in a way, you're just

693
00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:13,560
Speaker 1: throwing water on somebody's fire. But I don't know sometimes

694
00:44:13,560 --> 00:44:17,280
Speaker 1: that water is necessary. Sometimes that water is the cleansing

695
00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:21,759
Speaker 1: waters of life of Lake Minnetonka. Love it right. And

696
00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:26,000
Speaker 1: there's another thing here. Uh. We've got countless cases we

697
00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:29,600
Speaker 1: talk we can talk about the uh. The trial of R.

698
00:44:29,640 --> 00:44:32,399
Speaker 1: N h I N. Johnson a K. The Devil Made

699
00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:34,680
Speaker 1: Me Do It case, first known court case in the

700
00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:38,799
Speaker 1: US in which the defense sought to prove innocent innocence

701
00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:44,560
Speaker 1: based on the demonic possession Yes they're crazy, uh and

702
00:44:44,680 --> 00:44:49,920
Speaker 1: denying and denying personal responsibility for the crime. Uh. Johnson

703
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:53,080
Speaker 1: was convicted. He only served five years have attended twenty

704
00:44:53,160 --> 00:44:58,120
Speaker 1: years sentence for the first Green manslaughter of his landlord,

705
00:44:58,160 --> 00:45:06,120
Speaker 1: Alan Bono. According to the testimony from the glass All family,

706
00:45:06,760 --> 00:45:09,560
Speaker 1: they're eleven year old David glass All had played host

707
00:45:09,640 --> 00:45:12,800
Speaker 1: to the demon that forced Johnson to kill the landlord,

708
00:45:13,239 --> 00:45:20,400
Speaker 1: who so they after watching their son behaving strangely, the

709
00:45:20,480 --> 00:45:24,320
Speaker 1: family got ed and Lorraine Warren involved in an effort

710
00:45:24,400 --> 00:45:27,360
Speaker 1: to cure David, and they had him exercise by a

711
00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:32,120
Speaker 1: number of Catholic priests continue for days. According to the people,

712
00:45:32,120 --> 00:45:35,520
Speaker 1: when they finally drove the presence out, it fled the

713
00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:39,319
Speaker 1: child's body and took residence within Johnson, and that is

714
00:45:39,360 --> 00:45:44,880
Speaker 1: why the landlord was killed. As you might imagine, this

715
00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:47,480
Speaker 1: did not hold up in court. Of course, he was convicted.

716
00:45:48,680 --> 00:45:53,640
Speaker 1: You can see Discovery Channels a haunting that has an

717
00:45:53,640 --> 00:45:57,880
Speaker 1: episode where demon Sdwell takes a look at this. Of course,

718
00:45:57,960 --> 00:46:01,480
Speaker 1: this is you know, this was a huge story when

719
00:46:01,480 --> 00:46:03,920
Speaker 1: it hit the media for a moment. Let's just imagine

720
00:46:04,080 --> 00:46:08,000
Speaker 1: that your family, one of you guys you listening your

721
00:46:08,040 --> 00:46:11,840
Speaker 1: family or your roommates, uh, some you believe the group

722
00:46:11,840 --> 00:46:15,319
Speaker 1: of you truly believe that there's a possession going on, right,

723
00:46:15,719 --> 00:46:18,000
Speaker 1: and you're seeing weird things, and you're experiencing these weird

724
00:46:18,040 --> 00:46:20,520
Speaker 1: things that only you and your close friends are the

725
00:46:20,520 --> 00:46:23,440
Speaker 1: people who are being affected are seeing. And then imagine

726
00:46:23,440 --> 00:46:28,440
Speaker 1: trying to explain that to somebody else and not at

727
00:46:28,520 --> 00:46:33,600
Speaker 1: least feel like you're insane. Right, Yeah, that's I mean,

728
00:46:33,640 --> 00:46:36,480
Speaker 1: that's a good point. It is a personal thing. Then

729
00:46:36,800 --> 00:46:41,000
Speaker 1: let's there's another case here, the infilled Poulter Geist as well,

730
00:46:41,800 --> 00:46:45,880
Speaker 1: where in there were there were claims that there was

731
00:46:45,920 --> 00:46:48,759
Speaker 1: a Poulter guist in a council house and brings down

732
00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:53,160
Speaker 1: in Field, England from seventy seven to seventy nine, involving

733
00:46:53,560 --> 00:46:57,239
Speaker 1: two sisters get this guy's ages eleven and thirteen. And

734
00:46:57,280 --> 00:47:00,920
Speaker 1: that's important because, as we know from our previous look Poultergeist,

735
00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:06,280
Speaker 1: the most frequent reports of Poultergeist come from early adolescents,

736
00:47:07,320 --> 00:47:13,520
Speaker 1: early adolescent kids, girls growing up. So and I got

737
00:47:13,560 --> 00:47:16,560
Speaker 1: a lot of coverage in the British newspapers. And like

738
00:47:16,719 --> 00:47:20,480
Speaker 1: the Amityville thing, it's been um, it's been touted or

739
00:47:20,640 --> 00:47:26,120
Speaker 1: the inspiration for horror stories. Ed Warren claimed that one

740
00:47:26,160 --> 00:47:29,400
Speaker 1: of the kids was sound asleep levitating in midair, and

741
00:47:29,480 --> 00:47:33,200
Speaker 1: he concluded they were the subject of demonic possession. To

742
00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:36,719
Speaker 1: sum up what the critics would say, let's look at

743
00:47:36,760 --> 00:47:39,840
Speaker 1: science writer Sharon A. Hill, who said that many of

744
00:47:39,880 --> 00:47:43,719
Speaker 1: the myths and legends surrounding the Warrants have, according to her,

745
00:47:44,200 --> 00:47:47,759
Speaker 1: been seemingly of their own doing, and that people have

746
00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:52,800
Speaker 1: difficulties separating the warrants from their Hollywood portrayal. She also

747
00:47:52,920 --> 00:47:55,920
Speaker 1: says that there's a lot of sensationalist hype that is

748
00:47:55,920 --> 00:48:02,160
Speaker 1: not very incredulous, right uh. And they said, and he'll

749
00:48:02,200 --> 00:48:05,520
Speaker 1: also said that we have nothing but the Warren's word

750
00:48:05,600 --> 00:48:08,759
Speaker 1: for this, or the his for the objects in the

751
00:48:08,800 --> 00:48:13,279
Speaker 1: occult Museum, so they are not without their critics, And

752
00:48:13,320 --> 00:48:17,279
Speaker 1: the best way to sum it up is that, you know,

753
00:48:17,360 --> 00:48:21,080
Speaker 1: a demonologist finds demonic possession in a lot of cases.

754
00:48:21,880 --> 00:48:24,480
Speaker 1: Is that because they recognize the signs of this or

755
00:48:24,560 --> 00:48:27,120
Speaker 1: is that because when you are a hammer, every problem

756
00:48:27,160 --> 00:48:29,719
Speaker 1: looks like a nail, you know what I mean. I

757
00:48:29,800 --> 00:48:33,240
Speaker 1: can see that argument easily. And of course we should

758
00:48:33,239 --> 00:48:36,080
Speaker 1: also point out that there are there are people who

759
00:48:36,080 --> 00:48:38,399
Speaker 1: believe in the wars, believe these stories, at least one

760
00:48:38,440 --> 00:48:41,720
Speaker 1: of them, if not all of them, and it's clear

761
00:48:41,920 --> 00:48:46,400
Speaker 1: that in several of these cases, horrific and tragic things happen.

762
00:48:46,480 --> 00:48:49,759
Speaker 1: We are talking about murders, right, and whatever the motivation

763
00:48:49,840 --> 00:48:53,800
Speaker 1: for murder is, it remains a murder, nonetheless, whether or

764
00:48:53,840 --> 00:48:56,799
Speaker 1: not the devil made you do it. And also we're

765
00:48:56,800 --> 00:48:59,759
Speaker 1: getting into the nature of belief. That's what we're ending

766
00:48:59,800 --> 00:49:01,799
Speaker 1: on today. It's also kind of kind of coming full

767
00:49:01,800 --> 00:49:04,200
Speaker 1: circle because we started with this idea that ghost hunting

768
00:49:04,280 --> 00:49:07,800
Speaker 1: is as old as perhaps one could argue belief itself.

769
00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:11,919
Speaker 1: Religion is sort of organized belief, I suppose, So, I mean,

770
00:49:11,960 --> 00:49:14,320
Speaker 1: it really is, you know, this idea of the afterlife.

771
00:49:14,360 --> 00:49:17,520
Speaker 1: People want to believe these things, They want to um

772
00:49:17,680 --> 00:49:21,480
Speaker 1: have evidence presented to them that is proof positive that

773
00:49:21,520 --> 00:49:24,279
Speaker 1: there is an afterlife, you know, even if it's there's

774
00:49:24,400 --> 00:49:26,879
Speaker 1: sinister forces at work. I mean, I really do think

775
00:49:27,080 --> 00:49:30,480
Speaker 1: that it would be um easy for certain people to

776
00:49:30,960 --> 00:49:34,239
Speaker 1: believe some of these accounts from the Warrens because it's

777
00:49:34,239 --> 00:49:38,239
Speaker 1: sort of, you know, holds up their own beliefs and

778
00:49:38,320 --> 00:49:41,880
Speaker 1: it allows them to feel, you know, safe in those beliefs.

779
00:49:41,920 --> 00:49:44,600
Speaker 1: And there's nothing wrong with that, but it's you know,

780
00:49:44,760 --> 00:49:48,520
Speaker 1: it's a it's a tricky thing belief. Can I tell

781
00:49:48,520 --> 00:49:52,359
Speaker 1: you something that I believe as a videographer, I went

782
00:49:52,400 --> 00:49:54,719
Speaker 1: through and I was watching some of the some of

783
00:49:54,760 --> 00:49:58,120
Speaker 1: the footage that the Warrens take or did take back

784
00:49:58,120 --> 00:50:00,439
Speaker 1: in the day. Well, there's this one family you They're

785
00:50:00,440 --> 00:50:03,480
Speaker 1: sitting at a kitchen table. I believe it's a mother

786
00:50:03,600 --> 00:50:05,680
Speaker 1: or daughter or maybe a few other family members in

787
00:50:05,719 --> 00:50:10,799
Speaker 1: the warrants. And as a videographer, the way that these

788
00:50:10,800 --> 00:50:15,359
Speaker 1: shots are framed, they are just wide enough to get

789
00:50:15,440 --> 00:50:18,319
Speaker 1: in parts of the table, parts of the chair and

790
00:50:18,360 --> 00:50:21,400
Speaker 1: then let's say the subject would be the daughter or

791
00:50:21,520 --> 00:50:25,719
Speaker 1: the mother holding the chair and they they are discussing

792
00:50:25,800 --> 00:50:30,120
Speaker 1: as they're filming this, the demons that are you know,

793
00:50:30,200 --> 00:50:33,080
Speaker 1: possessing either the daughter or the chair or the table

794
00:50:33,200 --> 00:50:35,720
Speaker 1: or something, and the chair will move or the table

795
00:50:35,719 --> 00:50:39,239
Speaker 1: will move, but you cannot see the full table in

796
00:50:39,320 --> 00:50:41,680
Speaker 1: frame on any of the different angles that they're using.

797
00:50:42,160 --> 00:50:49,400
Speaker 1: So it is I cannot suspend my my rational thinking

798
00:50:49,520 --> 00:50:52,279
Speaker 1: enough to say that there's no way that somebody, some

799
00:50:52,400 --> 00:50:56,640
Speaker 1: party is moving these things, these objects, right, some physical

800
00:50:56,880 --> 00:51:01,080
Speaker 1: human person is moving these things. And it makes me

801
00:51:01,120 --> 00:51:03,960
Speaker 1: so frustrated because if you would only zoom out just

802
00:51:04,080 --> 00:51:06,080
Speaker 1: a little bit or move the camera away just a

803
00:51:06,080 --> 00:51:09,480
Speaker 1: little bit, I would I would so much more, at

804
00:51:09,560 --> 00:51:11,560
Speaker 1: least be close that if they did that, then you'd

805
00:51:11,560 --> 00:51:13,160
Speaker 1: be able to see the person down on the floor

806
00:51:13,160 --> 00:51:15,359
Speaker 1: moving the table, if there is a person, if they're

807
00:51:15,400 --> 00:51:17,440
Speaker 1: exactly if there is a peasing. But it's like you

808
00:51:17,520 --> 00:51:21,200
Speaker 1: see these things, they're always just enough to pique your interests,

809
00:51:21,400 --> 00:51:24,120
Speaker 1: and then there's something that's framed out or it's just

810
00:51:24,280 --> 00:51:27,080
Speaker 1: blurry enough, like you know, like a Bigfoot video or

811
00:51:27,080 --> 00:51:29,279
Speaker 1: something like that, where so that's that could be a thing.

812
00:51:29,640 --> 00:51:30,840
Speaker 1: But you know, I mean, I'm just saying it's just

813
00:51:30,960 --> 00:51:35,919
Speaker 1: interesting that these quote unquote bits of proof usually fall

814
00:51:36,000 --> 00:51:39,680
Speaker 1: short in some sure. I'm just saying, if you're out

815
00:51:39,719 --> 00:51:42,920
Speaker 1: there and you're a videographer trying to capture some paranormal

816
00:51:42,960 --> 00:51:45,759
Speaker 1: activity like this, use the rule of thirds or just

817
00:51:45,800 --> 00:51:48,240
Speaker 1: give me a wide shot. Just give me a wide shot.

818
00:51:48,360 --> 00:51:51,200
Speaker 1: And then there's also there's also the allegation p will

819
00:51:51,200 --> 00:51:54,839
Speaker 1: have that UH if they are investigating as fairly as

820
00:51:54,840 --> 00:51:59,080
Speaker 1: they can someone identified phenomenon, Uh, they will accuse the

821
00:51:59,120 --> 00:52:04,839
Speaker 1: more skeptical of changing the goal post or raising increasingly.

822
00:52:05,040 --> 00:52:07,759
Speaker 1: I agree in some cases is a valley criticism. I

823
00:52:07,800 --> 00:52:11,040
Speaker 1: just want, how have we not gotten some just super

824
00:52:11,800 --> 00:52:15,680
Speaker 1: baller ghost hunter that's really good at like shooting video

825
00:52:16,160 --> 00:52:21,520
Speaker 1: and has just made a collection of like super proof

826
00:52:21,640 --> 00:52:25,680
Speaker 1: positive pieces of you know, visual evidence of this stuff.

827
00:52:25,719 --> 00:52:27,080
Speaker 1: How I mean, if if it was going to happen,

828
00:52:27,120 --> 00:52:28,080
Speaker 1: do you think what do you think it would have

829
00:52:28,120 --> 00:52:31,719
Speaker 1: happened by now? With technology there will be you know,

830
00:52:32,080 --> 00:52:36,440
Speaker 1: will there have been maybe twelve shows across, but come on,

831
00:52:36,600 --> 00:52:39,040
Speaker 1: those are such Cheryl is running around in the dark

832
00:52:39,120 --> 00:52:43,359
Speaker 1: and say, I feel hand someone touched me. You know

833
00:52:43,600 --> 00:52:46,960
Speaker 1: they're tripped. I would, I would. I don't think those

834
00:52:46,960 --> 00:52:49,960
Speaker 1: are serious investigations. I think those are purely entertainment. I

835
00:52:50,000 --> 00:52:52,359
Speaker 1: think there's one way to do it and I think

836
00:52:52,440 --> 00:52:55,160
Speaker 1: one television show got it right back in the year

837
00:52:55,239 --> 00:52:59,279
Speaker 1: two thousand up until two thousand two. This isn't this

838
00:52:59,320 --> 00:53:02,279
Speaker 1: is what I posit do you guys? One show on

839
00:53:02,520 --> 00:53:06,160
Speaker 1: MTV called Fear. What they would do, I don't know

840
00:53:06,200 --> 00:53:11,280
Speaker 1: if you guys remember this. They would send celebrities, usually alone,

841
00:53:11,640 --> 00:53:15,200
Speaker 1: with a rig that has a forward facing uh camera

842
00:53:15,360 --> 00:53:17,920
Speaker 1: camera that's looking at the face, and they would go

843
00:53:18,080 --> 00:53:22,400
Speaker 1: alone into a place that's supposedly haunted and do something

844
00:53:22,520 --> 00:53:25,480
Speaker 1: that has to do with the lore of the haunted house. Now,

845
00:53:25,480 --> 00:53:28,160
Speaker 1: the reason why I'm saying this is because I think

846
00:53:28,200 --> 00:53:31,480
Speaker 1: having a single human being alone in a place like that,

847
00:53:32,360 --> 00:53:35,080
Speaker 1: not only is it going to produce in that human

848
00:53:35,200 --> 00:53:38,600
Speaker 1: the natural fear that comes from being in a spooky place,

849
00:53:39,040 --> 00:53:42,440
Speaker 1: even if there's no actual paranormal stuff involved, but it

850
00:53:42,520 --> 00:53:47,360
Speaker 1: also eliminates all the other all the other things that

851
00:53:47,360 --> 00:53:50,080
Speaker 1: could be happening with someone else making noise, someone else,

852
00:53:50,200 --> 00:53:52,600
Speaker 1: you know, moving an object in a room or something

853
00:53:52,640 --> 00:53:56,160
Speaker 1: like that. I think, you, guys, this is how we

854
00:53:56,200 --> 00:54:00,200
Speaker 1: find the ghosts. We contact MTV, we get Fear back,

855
00:54:00,719 --> 00:54:04,040
Speaker 1: we start, we start a new season. Maybe the three

856
00:54:04,040 --> 00:54:06,400
Speaker 1: of us are on it, I don't know. On the pilot.

857
00:54:07,080 --> 00:54:08,520
Speaker 1: What do you think this isn't the same one where

858
00:54:08,520 --> 00:54:11,680
Speaker 1: they make the meat like elk Penis, is it? No?

859
00:54:12,120 --> 00:54:15,200
Speaker 1: Well that's fear factor. Fear factor, This is called fear.

860
00:54:15,600 --> 00:54:17,640
Speaker 1: You guys never saw this show? Can I play the ghost?

861
00:54:19,400 --> 00:54:23,480
Speaker 1: I guess that invalidates this show? Okay, all right, well

862
00:54:23,640 --> 00:54:26,279
Speaker 1: I am glad to hear that there's at least one

863
00:54:26,360 --> 00:54:28,160
Speaker 1: that is doing it correctly. We'll check it out and

864
00:54:28,200 --> 00:54:30,840
Speaker 1: if you think we can pull the reboot, ladies and gentlemen,

865
00:54:30,960 --> 00:54:33,200
Speaker 1: we're all about it. Matt, you have persuaded me, nol.

866
00:54:33,280 --> 00:54:34,560
Speaker 1: What do you think you want to give it a shot?

867
00:54:34,880 --> 00:54:37,960
Speaker 1: Why not? Man, I'm up for anything, like seriously, just

868
00:54:38,000 --> 00:54:40,440
Speaker 1: going to an old jail and sitting the cell for

869
00:54:40,480 --> 00:54:43,480
Speaker 1: an hour. No, I'm not gonna alone. No, why that

870
00:54:43,560 --> 00:54:46,879
Speaker 1: sounds spooky? Well yeah, that's the whole point, you guys.

871
00:54:46,920 --> 00:54:49,120
Speaker 1: I'm gonna I'm gonna make an admission here before you

872
00:54:49,200 --> 00:54:51,960
Speaker 1: and all of you listeners. I've never been to a

873
00:54:52,360 --> 00:54:55,080
Speaker 1: haunted house like one of those like you know, like

874
00:54:55,120 --> 00:54:57,880
Speaker 1: the fake nam. I'm scared of you. I don't like

875
00:54:57,960 --> 00:55:00,000
Speaker 1: it all, like getting scared. Do you have any ide

876
00:55:00,200 --> 00:55:01,799
Speaker 1: that's why I'm so that's why I'm poop doing all

877
00:55:01,800 --> 00:55:05,520
Speaker 1: this stuff because I'm like, no, I was wondering you

878
00:55:05,560 --> 00:55:08,000
Speaker 1: would make perfect television. Though that's what I'm saying. I

879
00:55:08,040 --> 00:55:11,479
Speaker 1: would freak out as I think you know, I would

880
00:55:11,520 --> 00:55:14,000
Speaker 1: go just because I'm interested in what it's like to

881
00:55:14,080 --> 00:55:16,400
Speaker 1: feel things. I don't know if i've you know, maybe

882
00:55:16,400 --> 00:55:18,600
Speaker 1: this will be the time I have an emotion. So

883
00:55:18,800 --> 00:55:22,280
Speaker 1: MTV get at us. We're ready, all right, and uh

884
00:55:22,480 --> 00:55:26,080
Speaker 1: we hope that you enjoyed our episode. Here on the

885
00:55:26,120 --> 00:55:31,920
Speaker 1: controversy surrounding Ed and Lorraine Warren, we want to hear

886
00:55:32,080 --> 00:55:34,799
Speaker 1: from you. Do you think this is legit? Do you

887
00:55:34,880 --> 00:55:38,880
Speaker 1: think that they have actually found things? If so, what

888
00:55:39,640 --> 00:55:41,480
Speaker 1: we do want you to know that you can visit

889
00:55:41,480 --> 00:55:44,759
Speaker 1: the Occult Museum at the time of this recording, which

890
00:55:44,840 --> 00:55:50,480
Speaker 1: is May. Lorraine Warren is alive at the time of

891
00:55:50,520 --> 00:55:54,279
Speaker 1: this recording. However, I do not know if she is

892
00:55:54,800 --> 00:56:01,120
Speaker 1: continually granting interviews, and whether you believe their stories are not.

893
00:56:02,800 --> 00:56:06,640
Speaker 1: It seems that they and many many other people around

894
00:56:06,640 --> 00:56:09,960
Speaker 1: the world do believe them, and at the very least,

895
00:56:10,040 --> 00:56:14,799
Speaker 1: these people are a hallmark of American psychic folklore, which

896
00:56:14,840 --> 00:56:17,000
Speaker 1: I know sounds like a weird genre, but it's a

897
00:56:17,120 --> 00:56:19,719
Speaker 1: storied one and it's very good. Who else should we

898
00:56:19,760 --> 00:56:21,959
Speaker 1: add to this? Who else should we take a look

899
00:56:22,000 --> 00:56:26,080
Speaker 1: at in US British world history, especially as someone that

900
00:56:26,120 --> 00:56:28,480
Speaker 1: people in the West haven't heard about. We love to

901
00:56:28,560 --> 00:56:30,759
Speaker 1: check it out, so let us know. You can write

902
00:56:30,760 --> 00:56:32,880
Speaker 1: to us on Facebook and Twitter. We are conspiracy stuff

903
00:56:32,880 --> 00:56:34,880
Speaker 1: at both of those. You can check out our earlier

904
00:56:34,880 --> 00:56:37,120
Speaker 1: podcasts and ghosts on our website. Stuff then want you

905
00:56:37,120 --> 00:56:40,080
Speaker 1: to know dot com, And just to show you how

906
00:56:40,120 --> 00:56:42,879
Speaker 1: important it is to hear from listeners, I think it's

907
00:56:42,920 --> 00:56:49,520
Speaker 1: time for shut Up COONa. Our first shout out goes

908
00:56:49,600 --> 00:56:54,359
Speaker 1: to a website. It's the Outpost Forum. You you may

909
00:56:54,400 --> 00:56:56,759
Speaker 1: have visited this before, I don't. It seems like a

910
00:56:56,760 --> 00:56:59,040
Speaker 1: lot of people are going there. There's a specific threat

911
00:56:59,080 --> 00:57:01,719
Speaker 1: on this website that's dedicated to this show and our

912
00:57:01,760 --> 00:57:04,400
Speaker 1: buddy Casper Parks, who is a writer who's written to

913
00:57:04,480 --> 00:57:07,759
Speaker 1: us several times. Um he updates the thread every week

914
00:57:07,760 --> 00:57:10,040
Speaker 1: with our latest video. So if you know you're looking

915
00:57:10,080 --> 00:57:12,680
Speaker 1: for another place to talk with people about our show,

916
00:57:13,040 --> 00:57:15,960
Speaker 1: there you go check out the Outpost Forum. There's also

917
00:57:16,000 --> 00:57:17,919
Speaker 1: all kinds of other stuff you can explore there too,

918
00:57:17,960 --> 00:57:22,240
Speaker 1: so check it out. And our next shout out comes

919
00:57:22,320 --> 00:57:27,040
Speaker 1: to us from an anonymous source who said, please give

920
00:57:27,080 --> 00:57:32,000
Speaker 1: a shout out to Joel Plots p l O s

921
00:57:32,360 --> 00:57:37,760
Speaker 1: Z Joel who's shouting at Joel? Yeah? Who can that be? Man?

922
00:57:37,920 --> 00:57:40,520
Speaker 1: We can't tell you. Our next shout out is a

923
00:57:40,520 --> 00:57:43,600
Speaker 1: personal shout out for me. Um, I'd like to shout

924
00:57:43,600 --> 00:57:47,480
Speaker 1: out my girlfriend Rock Sane, who just finished listening to

925
00:57:47,520 --> 00:57:52,800
Speaker 1: the gin and UM presidential primary episodes on the road

926
00:57:53,280 --> 00:57:55,360
Speaker 1: traveling for work. And she listened to him back to

927
00:57:55,440 --> 00:57:57,960
Speaker 1: back and gave some really nice feedback. And you know,

928
00:57:58,040 --> 00:58:00,320
Speaker 1: and she's a tough one, so would she say she

929
00:58:00,400 --> 00:58:05,480
Speaker 1: said that I sounded really smart. Nice, let's not let's

930
00:58:05,520 --> 00:58:08,520
Speaker 1: not split hairs here anyway, Rock Sanda, thank you for

931
00:58:08,600 --> 00:58:10,960
Speaker 1: thinking that I'm smart, for allowing me to maintain that

932
00:58:11,000 --> 00:58:15,080
Speaker 1: illusion with you, and uh, you know, Bus, thanks for

933
00:58:15,160 --> 00:58:17,280
Speaker 1: being my lady friend. And Um, I hope you have

934
00:58:17,320 --> 00:58:21,000
Speaker 1: a good good work work times. What what a beautiful

935
00:58:21,160 --> 00:58:24,240
Speaker 1: romantic And to today's shout out corner, that was really nice.

936
00:58:24,720 --> 00:58:30,720
Speaker 1: Thanks Diana. Gosh, that's my wife, by the way, I'm

937
00:58:30,760 --> 00:58:33,600
Speaker 1: just putting that there. She'll never hear that, but I's there.

938
00:58:34,400 --> 00:58:37,480
Speaker 1: She'll feel it in your Heart. That's right, and that's

939
00:58:37,520 --> 00:58:40,680
Speaker 1: the end of this classic episode. If you have any

940
00:58:40,680 --> 00:58:44,640
Speaker 1: thoughts or questions about this episode, you can get into

941
00:58:44,680 --> 00:58:47,240
Speaker 1: contact with us in a number of different ways. One

942
00:58:47,240 --> 00:58:48,800
Speaker 1: of the best is to give us a call. Our

943
00:58:48,880 --> 00:58:52,400
Speaker 1: number is one eight three three st d w y

944
00:58:52,520 --> 00:58:54,640
Speaker 1: t K. If you don't want to do that, you

945
00:58:54,680 --> 00:58:57,160
Speaker 1: can send us a good old fashioned email. We are

946
00:58:57,400 --> 00:59:01,600
Speaker 1: conspiracy at i heart radio dot com. M Stuff they

947
00:59:01,640 --> 00:59:03,520
Speaker 1: Don't Want you to Know is a production of I

948
00:59:03,680 --> 00:59:06,760
Speaker 1: heart Radio. For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit

949
00:59:06,800 --> 00:59:09,560
Speaker 1: the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you

950
00:59:09,600 --> 00:59:10,760
Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows.