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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Sportsman's Nation podcast network, brought to

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Speaker 1: you by Savage Arms. Now. Savage has just released their

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Speaker 1: new shotgun called the Renegade. The Renegade is tough, reliable,

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Speaker 1: and ready for anything. Whether you're busting Clay's, dropping ducks,

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Speaker 1: or whacking turkeys. Renegade is built to withstand tough use

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Speaker 1: in extreme conditions. For more information about the Renegade shotgun,

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Speaker 1: visit Savage arms dot com slash Renegade. My name is

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Speaker 1: Clay Nukeleman. I'm the host of the Bear Hunting Magazine podcast.

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Speaker 1: I'll also be your host into the world of hunting

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Speaker 1: the icon of the North American wilderness Prepare. We'll talk

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Speaker 1: about tactics, gear conservation. We will also bring you into

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Speaker 1: some of the wildest country off the planet, chasing fair.

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Speaker 1: This is an information field podcasts that I think is fundamental. Uh,

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Speaker 1: We're gonna talk about the North American mile of wildlife

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Speaker 1: conservation here at the Global Head Courts. I've got Colby

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Speaker 1: moorehead and my daughter, a sixteen year old daughter River

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Speaker 1: nwcom with me on this podcast. It's fun. You had fun,

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Speaker 1: didn't you. Yeah, Yeah, Colby, you had fun. Yeah. It's great.

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Speaker 1: So you're gonna like this podcast full of facts and

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Speaker 1: information that that and we're kind of doing almost like

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Speaker 1: a book review. So you're gonna listen to this podcast.

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Speaker 1: Letten to do it with your kids, listen to it

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Speaker 1: with your buddies, which means you should listen to it

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Speaker 1: multiple times. Yeah, the multiple times. Well, Hey, we're right

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Speaker 1: in the middle of of a of a global pandemic

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Speaker 1: and uh, pretty amazing times to be alive. So we

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Speaker 1: hope that you're all well and safe. We hope your

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Speaker 1: families are safe and uh, while you're at home, check

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Speaker 1: out our buddies at the Western Bear Foundational um Joe

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Speaker 1: con Dallas, Western Bear Foundation there. Uh, they're hunting conservation

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Speaker 1: organization for bears out West. Their membership driven if you

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Speaker 1: become a member of their organization to get a copy

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Speaker 1: of Bear Hunting magazine True Story, which we are working

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Speaker 1: on the May June issue as we speak. Really, it's

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Speaker 1: a great it's a great it's a great issue. Hey,

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Speaker 1: and a spring bear seasons approach. They're gonna be some

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Speaker 1: spring bear seasons open even though COVID nineteen is disrupting

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Speaker 1: some stuff. Check out north Woods Bear Products Best Commercial

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Speaker 1: Sense that that that that we've used and uh Northwoods

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Speaker 1: Bear Products dot net. If you're baiting bears, that makes

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Speaker 1: zero sense. And I would say this whether they were

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Speaker 1: partners on our podcast or not, because I've said it

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Speaker 1: for years. It doesn't make any sense if your baiting

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Speaker 1: bears going to all that effort and to not be

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Speaker 1: using commercial sense because those commercial sense are chemically designed

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Speaker 1: to be more powerful and potent than any natural odor.

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Speaker 1: And a little goes a long Yes, it does, it does.

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Speaker 1: It'll run your life if you spell it in your

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Speaker 1: truck to leave it. I leave mine in the bed

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Speaker 1: of the truck. And they. Lastly, our buddies at du

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Speaker 1: Hunting Supply. These guys are river That's where we get

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Speaker 1: all our collars for dogs. Rivers, A garment wizard uh

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Speaker 1: we uh these guys have a they're known for their

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Speaker 1: customer service. Buddy Woodbury and his team, they're they're good

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Speaker 1: people in Washington and uh they they they're big ttributors

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Speaker 1: of all the garment products. And uh, I'm running an

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Speaker 1: uh An Alpha unit, which is the handheld unit that

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Speaker 1: has a track and train collar so you can, uh,

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Speaker 1: you can track them, but you can also train them

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Speaker 1: with the tone check out do you hunting supply for

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Speaker 1: all your hound hunting needs? Last thing, last thing. Nukem.

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Speaker 1: There's a film that somebody made called Nukem. Can you

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Speaker 1: believe it? How about that Brandy? How about that branding river?

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Speaker 1: And I like that? Don't everything? Hey, in all seriousness,

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Speaker 1: it's a good film, even if it wasn't about our family. Um,

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Speaker 1: First Light made a film and you can go watch

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Speaker 1: it at the first Light YouTube channel or first light

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Speaker 1: dot com slash Nukem I believe. Uh yeah, you might

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Speaker 1: have to fact check, fact check that, might have to

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Speaker 1: fact check that, but you'll find it. Uh. First Light

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Speaker 1: is also doing some spring bear sales on that on

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Speaker 1: the first light dot com right now. They've got one

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Speaker 1: of my bear kits on there. What I like to

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Speaker 1: use for bear hunting. Um, so you can check that out.

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Speaker 1: And this film, it's like an eleven minute film done

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Speaker 1: by Jordan Riley and Taylor Coleman capture creative, doesn't feel

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Speaker 1: like an eleven minute film. It's quick. Yeah, it goes

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Speaker 1: by in the flash. Yeah. Really fun. They came to

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Speaker 1: Arkansas and we squirrel hunted. We showed some really cool

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Speaker 1: bare footage from over the years showed some mule training stuff,

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Speaker 1: some um coon hunting stuff, really unique film. I think

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Speaker 1: for the outdoor industry, not many mainstream companies are putting

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Speaker 1: out stuff like that. It's anyway shameless. That was shameless shameless.

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Speaker 1: Check it out at first like that, Hey, you're gonna

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Speaker 1: enjoy this podcast with River new Cam, Colby Moorehead, and myself.

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Speaker 1: We are at the Bear Hunting Magazine Global headquarters. We

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Speaker 1: are six ft apart, yes minimum, I have well introduced

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Speaker 1: our guests. First, Coolby. To my left, I have River

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Speaker 1: new Cam. River is my daughter and she's gonna be

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Speaker 1: a part of the podcast today. And I also have

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Speaker 1: Colby Moorehead, Ye, Colby the Bear Tech Morehead. We're gonna

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Speaker 1: do something a little bit different than you know, a

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Speaker 1: lot of the podcasts we're doing. We're traveling and we're

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Speaker 1: talking to interesting people, and this podcast is more going

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Speaker 1: to be like an information packed podcast, and we're gonna

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Speaker 1: be talking about the North American model of wildlife conservation. Okay,

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Speaker 1: there it is. That's what we're gonna talk about, and

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Speaker 1: that's what I want everybody to be able to really.

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Speaker 1: I feel like this is the this is the lynchpin

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Speaker 1: of our understanding as hunters and our ability first of all,

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Speaker 1: to understand really what we're doing. I mean, because to

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Speaker 1: blindly participate in something that has this massive history, massive

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Speaker 1: history back to the very origins of humankind, and to

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Speaker 1: just blindly participate in it almost seems a little bit irresponsible. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I've been guilty of that. Well, we all have. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we all have. And so in an age of knowledge,

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Speaker 1: in an age of understanding, in an age when information

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Speaker 1: is just at our fingertips, it makes a lot of

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Speaker 1: sense that we would we would try to understand these things.

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Speaker 1: So Number one, this is for the participant inside of

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Speaker 1: hunting to understand more. Number two, I think this understanding

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Speaker 1: is critical in our in in in the public's perception

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Speaker 1: of who we are. So our ability, even as hunters,

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Speaker 1: to just have some of these words. And I mean

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Speaker 1: I use that phrase because words are what craft ideology.

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Speaker 1: I mean, we're we're. If you don't have the words,

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Speaker 1: then you don't know. If you don't if you can't

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Speaker 1: say it and not you don't have to say it

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Speaker 1: in a complex way, you don't have to say it

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Speaker 1: in an elegant way. But knowledge creates an ability to

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Speaker 1: communicate and and we've we've we've got to be able

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Speaker 1: in in this day and age when hunters are at

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Speaker 1: this climactic point of trying to justify our relevance in

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Speaker 1: modern society. We've got to be able to tell people

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Speaker 1: why we do what we do in our history and

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Speaker 1: have a pretty robust, rich understand And I think that's

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Speaker 1: I think that's what is missing. It was missing from

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Speaker 1: my hunting upbringing. Yeah, it really was. I mean, now

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Speaker 1: we understood conservation than at some level, but like the

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Speaker 1: depth of some of this we didn't understand at all really,

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Speaker 1: and um, there you go. We got a heavy breather.

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Speaker 1: So we've I feel like a podcast like this, like

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Speaker 1: we're gonna take about an hour and we're gonna we're

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Speaker 1: gonna deep dive and it's hopefully gonna be shallow enough

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Speaker 1: that we could just capture a few principles that will

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Speaker 1: make sense over time. I mean, this isn't gonna be

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Speaker 1: the first time a lot of you have heard. It's

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Speaker 1: not the first time Colby has heard, it's not the

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Speaker 1: first time Rivers heard it. Um. But but the idea

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Speaker 1: is that we could talk about it and it could

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Speaker 1: be something that people could take away from. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: And I think about when you're talking about words. I

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Speaker 1: think it's not words to have like some in depth

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Speaker 1: like argumentative conversation, but it's just like some words that

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Speaker 1: we give shape to your belief system, to the things

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Speaker 1: that it's like, well, this is why I do this,

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Speaker 1: you know, to provide some sort of paint, some sort

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Speaker 1: of context. Not necessarily like I'm trying to convince you

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Speaker 1: that I'm right, you know, but it's like I know

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Speaker 1: the reason that I do the things that I do,

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Speaker 1: you know, yeah, exactly, River, You you got You've been

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Speaker 1: involved in some conversations over your life with friends who

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Speaker 1: didn't understand hunting. I mean, and that's probably the reason

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Speaker 1: I wanted you to come on the podcast, was like,

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Speaker 1: you're you seem to be of all the newcom kids,

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Speaker 1: pretty interested in uh and understanding what we do and

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Speaker 1: being able to tell people that yeah so um and

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Speaker 1: he comments on that, River, you want to tell us

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Speaker 1: some juicy stories of these fiery conversations you have with

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Speaker 1: your friends at school. Well, I think it's like all

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Speaker 1: like in middle school, like everybody wanted to try out

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Speaker 1: being vegetarian. It always had some reason, and we would

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Speaker 1: like always getting debates about it, and every single time,

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Speaker 1: like as a hunter, I was more knowledgeable by animals,

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Speaker 1: and every single time as a hunter, I had more,

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Speaker 1: like more to say about what I was talking about.

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Speaker 1: And none of those people are still vegetarian. The power

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Speaker 1: of protein. Protein, well, we have a long history with protein.

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Speaker 1: So okay, here's this is also a book review. I

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Speaker 1: should have said this earlier. What we're gonna do is

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna try to systematically go through some of you know,

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Speaker 1: part like highlight parts of a book that I'm holding

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Speaker 1: in my right hand right now. It's a new book

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Speaker 1: and it's called The North American Model of Wildlife Conservation

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Speaker 1: and on the cover it says it's edited by Shane

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Speaker 1: Mahoney and Valerious Geist. There were actually about eight or

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Speaker 1: nine contributors, I be eve to this book that wrote

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Speaker 1: different different chapters, but Shane Mahoney and Valerious guys are

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Speaker 1: the ones that wrote it. It's I believe it was.

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Speaker 1: It's been released within the last three months. O uh yeah.

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Speaker 1: I think it's just that the first the year was

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Speaker 1: released and this is the only book and the most

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Speaker 1: robust book that has been written about the North American

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Speaker 1: Modle of wildlife conservation. And so that's why it is

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Speaker 1: so important. Um, this book is like a textbook, Like

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Speaker 1: it's not like a fun read. Now, it was fun

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Speaker 1: for me, it might be fun for you, but it's

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Speaker 1: it's not like a book you're just gonna give to

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Speaker 1: your kid and say, hey, read this, you'll enjoy it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's it's a it's a it's academic uh type, you know,

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Speaker 1: uh language, but also very approachable, very very practical, functional,

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Speaker 1: and again is the most robust piece of literature that

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Speaker 1: we have that really encompasses the North American wilife conservation.

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Speaker 1: I want to start off by saying, I want to

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Speaker 1: give that the history of this model in that this

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Speaker 1: model was built over the course of basically a hundred

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Speaker 1: years in North America. It was not developed at one time.

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Speaker 1: There were bits and pieces that were developed over time

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Speaker 1: by different people, by different organizations, by different streams of thought.

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Speaker 1: In nineteen let's just say, let's see, I believe in

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Speaker 1: nineteen Valerious Geist was the one who coined the phrase

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Speaker 1: the North American malad wildife conservation. Hilarious Guist, I believe

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Speaker 1: is from somewhere in Europe pre series from Germany. He

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Speaker 1: was a biologist that came and lived in Canada and

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Speaker 1: was a wildlife biologist. Um. He's been on the Hunting

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Speaker 1: Collective podcast before. That's where I've heard him. Kind of

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Speaker 1: was introduced to him in the seventies. Yeah, yeah, fascinating

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Speaker 1: podcast that that that he did with Betel Brian um

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Speaker 1: Vlarius Geist was you know, from Germany. So he came

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Speaker 1: here and so he was more perceptive of what was

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Speaker 1: happening in North America because of the success of Big Game.

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Speaker 1: And I believe this as the story went and he

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Speaker 1: was talking to another biologist and he actually said, yeah,

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Speaker 1: like the North American model of wildlife conservation. And somebody said, well,

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Speaker 1: we don't have a North American model, and he said,

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Speaker 1: yes you do. Let me write it down. And he

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Speaker 1: basically fleshed out these ideas of conservation that we now

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Speaker 1: hold true to and now have become after a hundred years,

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Speaker 1: the most successful human wildlife husbandry endeavor of history. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So he was like coming in and identifying the culture

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Speaker 1: that maybe we didn't weren't able to articulate, but we

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Speaker 1: kind of lived by right. And so Valarious Guist was

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Speaker 1: the first guy that did that. Um, I want to

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Speaker 1: start off by saying that, and I'm kind of just

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Speaker 1: moving through this book and I'm gonna pull out some quotes.

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Speaker 1: Loss of wild species is escalating rapidly at a global scale,

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Speaker 1: Like we can't deny that. And we're talking about small animals.

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Speaker 1: We're talking about reptiles, we're talking about amphibians, We're talking

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Speaker 1: about all kinds of stuff. So that is happening. That

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Speaker 1: is not just like a left wing propaganda idea. You

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Speaker 1: know that things are going extinct across the planet. But

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Speaker 1: but big but all caps big button is that animals

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Speaker 1: that are hunted and managed as game animals in North

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Speaker 1: America are thriving. Okay, So there's a powerful contrast right there,

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Speaker 1: where animals have cultural value and here that cultural value

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Speaker 1: value comes through hunting those animals. Habitat is protected, those

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Speaker 1: animals are protected, and the twenty nine big game species

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Speaker 1: of animals in North America for the most part, are

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Speaker 1: at least at minimum stable or are thriving now. Granted,

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Speaker 1: because of some climate issues and whatnot, some of the

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Speaker 1: caribou and moose populations are struggling up in the boreal forest.

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Speaker 1: There's some of that going on, but that has nothing

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Speaker 1: to do with the only reason they're still there is

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Speaker 1: because of hunting. So I wanted to say that because

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Speaker 1: that's how they started off the book. Uh, it's how

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Speaker 1: Shane Mahoney started off the book was saying that loss

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Speaker 1: of wild species is a massive deal. But in North

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Speaker 1: America are big game are thriving, and I think that

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Speaker 1: is that is crazy. Let's talk about what the North

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Speaker 1: American model is. They give a definition and they say

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Speaker 1: that the North American model isn't evolved in shared system

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Speaker 1: of conservation laws, principles, institutions, and policy these that has

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Speaker 1: enabled the success of Canada and the United States and

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Speaker 1: the recovery, management, and protection of wildlife and brought them

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Speaker 1: global recognition. That's a that's a sentence side of here.

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Speaker 1: So it's it's not just one thing. It's laws, which

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Speaker 1: literally means game laws. It's principles. Principles would be like

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Speaker 1: a principle of fair chase that we all have inside

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Speaker 1: of us in North America, whether we realize it or not,

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Speaker 1: whether we whether we know the word fair chase or not,

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Speaker 1: um we have we have that built in us institutions.

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Speaker 1: Institutions would be like businesses and government organizations that are

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Speaker 1: designed to help manage wildlife. Uh, policies would be public

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Speaker 1: policy that we have like the Lacy Act and different

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Speaker 1: things that protect wildlife. So that is the North American model. Okay,

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Speaker 1: let's go to what the North American model is, because

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Speaker 1: it has been fleshed out as having seven pillars or

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Speaker 1: what they call the seven Sisters of of conservation. River.

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Speaker 1: Can you name one of the seven Sisters of conservation.

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Speaker 1: She's shaking her head and she actually told me that

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Speaker 1: I've never heard the phrase seven sisters before. Okay, okay,

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Speaker 1: oh man, I caught him. That's why you're on this spot.

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Speaker 1: I feel like if you were to talk about him,

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Speaker 1: I would recognize them, but I've never heard them in

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Speaker 1: this Yeah, like right after the justin Spring podcast last year,

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Speaker 1: I had them, Yeah yeah, yeah yeah. Okay, Well, let's

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Speaker 1: just briefly go through these, the seven Sisters of Conservation.

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Speaker 1: And I think like, if you've never heard these before

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Speaker 1: and you hear these, you're gonna see stuff that's built

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Speaker 1: inside of you that you didn't even know where it

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Speaker 1: came from, but it came from here. And again, these

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Speaker 1: all didn't happen at one time. Okay. So Number one

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Speaker 1: maintaining wildlife as a public trust resource entrusted to the

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Speaker 1: state to manage. That's that's number one. So wildlife is

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Speaker 1: put in the public trust. And now that needs a

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Speaker 1: little bit of background because the background, you know, European

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Speaker 1: settlers came from Europe, and the European model was and

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Speaker 1: we can get into the details, but there was a

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Speaker 1: time when in in Europe and all the colonies of England,

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Speaker 1: the king himself literally owned all wildlife. That's the kings

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Speaker 1: he the king stagger, Yeah, exactly, the King's the King's

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Speaker 1: uh uh, the king himself. And they eventually changed that

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Speaker 1: to where I'm looking for I'm looking for it right here. Okay.

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Speaker 1: The Game Act of sixteen seventy one in England changed

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Speaker 1: wildlife from being owned by the king to being owned

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Speaker 1: by the landowners. Which that sounds like, oh cool, power

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Speaker 1: to the people. But guess who owned land in England

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Speaker 1: and English colonies Hoo river, that's right, rich folks. So

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Speaker 1: it became an elite thing. And so that's what that's

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Speaker 1: what the mentality that the European call it, call it

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Speaker 1: you know where Americans came from had in their head

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Speaker 1: is that hunting is a rich folks sport, and the

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Speaker 1: peasants were forced to be vegans. Yeah, exactly, exactly, So sorry,

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Speaker 1: that's well. And now the rich folks are the vegans.

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Speaker 1: Yeah now, And and that is actually an interesting thought

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Speaker 1: because what we did was we flip flopped exactly what

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Speaker 1: we came from. And that's kind of a cool American thing,

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Speaker 1: you know, like we didn't like the tyranny that we

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Speaker 1: were under, so we left and did something different. Um So,

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Speaker 1: but that's a key, key component is that wildlife is

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Speaker 1: owned by the people. People are incentivized to want to

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Speaker 1: protect wildlife, and that is a key inside a North

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Speaker 1: American model is incentivizing people shared ownership and actually the

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Speaker 1: idea of self interest. Um people have an interest in

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Speaker 1: wildlife because it's theirs. That's number one, number two, number

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Speaker 1: two river number two, prohibiting of the deleterious commerce and

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Speaker 1: dead wildlife products. I definitely would have worried it. Where

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Speaker 1: did it that way? These are like the we're gonna

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Speaker 1: break it down into like standard American hillbilly speak. Okay,

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Speaker 1: that means that you can't sell a deer that you kill.

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Speaker 1: It means that you can't kill a bear and sell

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Speaker 1: us gallbladder. It means that you can't market hunt for

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Speaker 1: bears like you could in the early eighteen hundreds or

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Speaker 1: through the nineteen hundreds really and make a living. I'll

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Speaker 1: selling bears, um. You know many times in my short, short,

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Speaker 1: young young life. Uh I'm forty, not that I'm not

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Speaker 1: that young. Um, I've had people wanting to buy stuff

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Speaker 1: for me. Like I had a buddy that just loved

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Speaker 1: dear me, kind of an urban guy, and he was like, man, hey,

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Speaker 1: you if you kill a deer, I'll buy it from you.

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Speaker 1: And I'm just kind of bro, you have no idea

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Speaker 1: that you have just stepped on the toes of one

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Speaker 1: of the sisters and she will kick you in the shins. Um.

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Speaker 1: And I've also i have also, oh this is a

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Speaker 1: deep dive. I Uh, I was buying bear bait from

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Speaker 1: a from a donut place and the people were not

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Speaker 1: from America. They were not Americans, and uh, they actually

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Speaker 1: wanted to buy some bear stuff from me, which is

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Speaker 1: highly illegal. I mean, you go to prison for selling

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Speaker 1: bear parts. I honestly believe they were totally ignorant. They

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Speaker 1: just they kind of became my friends and found out

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Speaker 1: that I was a bear hunter, and they were like hey,

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Speaker 1: and I was like, no, sir, I cannot at all.

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Speaker 1: I didn't even want to give him anything. You know,

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Speaker 1: I could have been I'll give it. I was just like, Nope,

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Speaker 1: off limits. But it comes from that. It's not like

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Speaker 1: claws like jewelry and stuff. That's a good question. There

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Speaker 1: are parts of taxidermy wildlife that you can sell, like

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Speaker 1: I could sell one of those deer mounts. But you

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Speaker 1: can't sell meat like I can't sell bear fat. Uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, like I can't start making bear fat soap

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Speaker 1: and sell it. Um. There's some really specific laws. You

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Speaker 1: can sell antlers. I could because see like these bear

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Speaker 1: hides up on the wall, like I have paid money

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Speaker 1: for those to be turned into almost like a finished product,

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Speaker 1: finished product that you can sell. Okay. Um. I don't

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Speaker 1: know if you can sell claws though, because I feel

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Speaker 1: like you could buy them online like you could buy

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Speaker 1: a jewelry. There. There are many places where native tribes

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Speaker 1: First Nation people can sell. They can sell whatever they want,

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Speaker 1: as I understand, because that you know, Fat Najar is

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Speaker 1: a weather station though, I mean, yeah, that's our weather station. Yeah, um, okay,

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Speaker 1: So that's prohibiting commerce and dead wildlife, right, okay. Number

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Speaker 1: three the third sister regulating and defining appropriate wildlife used

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Speaker 1: by law. Okay, So the contrast would have been, well, no, no,

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Speaker 1: it just means that wildlife stuff is regulated by law

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Speaker 1: in law meaning it comes from the government, and law

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Speaker 1: meaning it's punishable by law. You know, so like if

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Speaker 1: we if you mess around and break wildlife law, people

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Speaker 1: are gonna come and arrest you or find you. So

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Speaker 1: regulated about it. Also that it goes from that all

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Speaker 1: the way to the idea that that like if I

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Speaker 1: had five thousand acres here, I couldn't just manage my

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Speaker 1: own wildlife. The wildlife that I had on my five

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Speaker 1: thousand acres would be managed by law, Like the Arkansas

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Speaker 1: Game Fish Commission would say, hey, you can only kill

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Speaker 1: six deer year, two turkeys, one bear for game animals.

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Speaker 1: For game animals, yeah yeah, in all non game animals

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Speaker 1: are protected to uh by big just yeah, even non

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Speaker 1: game animals other than like wild but they're still regulated

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Speaker 1: by law. I mean they are you can't kill them

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Speaker 1: on public land. But you get the idea because and

383
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Speaker 1: again that that seems so normal, It seems so normal

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Speaker 1: for anybody in this country that's a hunter to be like, well,

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Speaker 1: of course wildlife is regulated by law. Well, it wasn't

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Speaker 1: for the last bazillion years before a hundred years ago.

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Speaker 1: You with me, I mean it wasn't. It wasn't regulated

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Speaker 1: by law before about nine in Arkansas. You know, it

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Speaker 1: was just like whatever, man, you go kill a pile

390
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Speaker 1: of bears and sell their fat and sell their hide

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Speaker 1: and sell their meat and make a living, then good

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Speaker 1: for you. Yeah, not anymore. Okay, that's number three, any

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Speaker 1: comments forever? How many bears have you killed? That's a

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Speaker 1: good that's a good number. Okay, number four four, sister,

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Speaker 1: number ensuring wildlife can only be killed for legitimate purpose.

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Speaker 1: And I have also the phrasing of these statements. It

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Speaker 1: will be varied in different literature places that you find.

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Speaker 1: So I've heard this called non frivolous use of wildlife,

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Speaker 1: which I love, because everything that we kill has a

400
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Speaker 1: purpose behind it, so you know, but not all purposes

401
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Speaker 1: are the same. So a white tailed deer, we are

402
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Speaker 1: killing that deer for the meat. And there are wanton

403
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Speaker 1: waste laws that are set in place that regulate if

404
00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:48,960
Speaker 1: you shoot a deer, you have got to harvest the

405
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Speaker 1: meat off that animal. Um. But they're also animals that

406
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Speaker 1: are managed as fur bearing animals, which actually is a

407
00:25:57,720 --> 00:26:04,919
Speaker 1: loophole in the the commerce of wildlife because a like

408
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Speaker 1: a like a raccoon, we we we harvest, we kill

409
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Speaker 1: that animal for the hide, but also we kill that

410
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Speaker 1: animal for depredation purposes. Because so if if you can

411
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Speaker 1: kill one animal for the for the betterment of another

412
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Speaker 1: species that is in peril, sometimes there's reason to kill

413
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Speaker 1: not for food. Are you with me? Predators? Predators? Yeah,

414
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Speaker 1: like you don't. You're not legally obligated to eat a

415
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Speaker 1: coyote if you kill it. Um, it's it's management is

416
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Speaker 1: a fur buried animal. But that's awesome because like you know,

417
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Speaker 1: any little kid that starts, you know, shooting a pellet

418
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Speaker 1: gun and what whatnot, it's gonna want to just go

419
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Speaker 1: shoot something for fun. And what does every good dad

420
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Speaker 1: say to his kid at some point, if you shoot that,

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Speaker 1: you're gonna eat that. Yeah, that's right, that's right. Where

422
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Speaker 1: did that come from? Right here? Non frivolous use of wildlife,

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Speaker 1: that we don't just go kill stuff for the fun

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Speaker 1: of it. And again, these are powerful principles inside the

425
00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:11,000
Speaker 1: narrative that we've all got to have. I mean, like

426
00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:14,760
Speaker 1: the common man. It's my dream that the common man,

427
00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:20,080
Speaker 1: common hunter that has no deep connection to you know.

428
00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:22,080
Speaker 1: I mean there there are people that are that interact

429
00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:25,400
Speaker 1: with hunting at all different levels. And when you when

430
00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:28,920
Speaker 1: we reach a saturation point, not everybody's always gonna not

431
00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:32,920
Speaker 1: every nobody will not everyone will know all of these

432
00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:36,639
Speaker 1: but there are certain things that reach a saturation point

433
00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:43,440
Speaker 1: inside of a system where just it's just common people. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

434
00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:45,800
Speaker 1: And and I would say right now this is on

435
00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:48,160
Speaker 1: the trend upward because a lot of people are talking

436
00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:52,000
Speaker 1: about this now and outdoor media. Um. But still these

437
00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:55,960
Speaker 1: are powerful things. So we're on number four, number five,

438
00:27:56,240 --> 00:28:01,240
Speaker 1: which is recognizing and managing wildlife as an inter national resource.

439
00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:05,840
Speaker 1: This is one of the sisters. Okay, This primarily has

440
00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:09,320
Speaker 1: to do with waterfowl. Yeah, and it comes from the

441
00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:14,240
Speaker 1: knowledge that waterfowl have a life cycle that is spread

442
00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:18,159
Speaker 1: out across three continents, some of them because you know

443
00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:21,840
Speaker 1: all these big time nesting grounds up in Canada, that's

444
00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:25,480
Speaker 1: where almost all our waterfowl live throughout the summer. They nest,

445
00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:30,080
Speaker 1: and then they fly south down in Arkansas and Missouri

446
00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:34,000
Speaker 1: and all across the country, and we harvest those animals.

447
00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:37,720
Speaker 1: So if if the United States didn't coordinate with Canada,

448
00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:41,960
Speaker 1: we'd be in big trouble. And so basically we manage

449
00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:48,200
Speaker 1: that waterfowls a wildlife resource across you know, across UH

450
00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:51,720
Speaker 1: international boundaries. Yeah, yeah, I think even like the organization

451
00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:54,479
Speaker 1: is like ducks and limited stuff actually fun projects up

452
00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:57,800
Speaker 1: in Canada. Absolutely, the US based, at least I think

453
00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:01,920
Speaker 1: US based UH organization and a lot of their their

454
00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:06,520
Speaker 1: donor moneys go up to Canada for projects and there.

455
00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:10,280
Speaker 1: And there's stuff going on in Mexico too. Uh, there's

456
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:13,240
Speaker 1: there's projects working with the Mexican government for stuff that

457
00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:15,240
Speaker 1: crosses borders. You know, there's a lot of things that

458
00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:18,560
Speaker 1: cross borders. You know, the there's a jaguar. Do you

459
00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:22,920
Speaker 1: know that river that jaguars are native to North America? Yeah,

460
00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:26,520
Speaker 1: I just got the stanky eyebrow from rivers, she said

461
00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:35,440
Speaker 1: in America jaguar. Yeah really, And and they're not certain

462
00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:39,320
Speaker 1: that any of them live in America, primarily in Arizona

463
00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:43,320
Speaker 1: and New Mexico. Um, but they cross they live a

464
00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:45,800
Speaker 1: lot of them live in Mexico crossed into the United States.

465
00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:51,400
Speaker 1: Guys occasionally treat them with UH dry ground line dogs

466
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:55,720
Speaker 1: down there. Yeah, pretty sweet. And then black bears. When

467
00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:58,240
Speaker 1: we were at a big Ben National Park four years

468
00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:02,160
Speaker 1: ago river we saw you, remember that, and we were

469
00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:07,720
Speaker 1: within sight of Mexico. UM. And so you know you international,

470
00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:15,840
Speaker 1: international working together. Okay, yeah, okay, UM number six number six. Man,

471
00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:21,600
Speaker 1: I'm pumped. I'm pumped. Uh. Utilizing and safeguarding science as

472
00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:24,880
Speaker 1: the appropriate basis for wildlife policy. I like that one.

473
00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:30,360
Speaker 1: So basically wildife management is based upon science, that's right.

474
00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:33,320
Speaker 1: And so that's contrasted with that what you just said,

475
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:38,640
Speaker 1: Kolbe is that our wildlife has thrived to the point

476
00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:43,000
Speaker 1: that it has because wildlife has been managed based upon science,

477
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:47,760
Speaker 1: not based upon the whims of the uninformed. And you know,

478
00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:49,760
Speaker 1: kind of like and and we'll use British Columbia as

479
00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:52,280
Speaker 1: an example. You know, in the last two years they

480
00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:55,360
Speaker 1: have shut down the grizzly bear hunt in British Columbia

481
00:30:55,920 --> 00:31:03,200
Speaker 1: solely based on the public outcry pub out, based upon

482
00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:07,040
Speaker 1: the perception of it being a trophy hunt quote unquote

483
00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:10,280
Speaker 1: air quotes um. And just like people just didn't like

484
00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:13,320
Speaker 1: the idea. Like I think it was said by one

485
00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:17,080
Speaker 1: of the governors of the leaders there that grizzly hunting

486
00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:21,880
Speaker 1: doesn't fit with the I want to use the word narrative,

487
00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:24,680
Speaker 1: but that's not it, you know, with the with the

488
00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:27,520
Speaker 1: with the values of the British Columbian people. He said

489
00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:31,720
Speaker 1: something like that, which if you and so it wasn't

490
00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:34,320
Speaker 1: based on sites because all the biologists and the hunters

491
00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:36,840
Speaker 1: and everybody was like, hey, wait a minute, we're taking

492
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:40,000
Speaker 1: I think they were taking less than five hundred bears

493
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:43,880
Speaker 1: per year, maybe three hundred bears perer out of British Columbia,

494
00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:46,800
Speaker 1: out of a population I don't even want to say,

495
00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:51,480
Speaker 1: but thousands of animals. So it was a very small percentage.

496
00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:57,000
Speaker 1: It was inconsequential essentially. Other than that, a hunted population

497
00:31:57,040 --> 00:32:01,400
Speaker 1: of bears typically acts different than an unhunted population. They're safer.

498
00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:04,360
Speaker 1: There's some research behind that. Some people argue that that's

499
00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:08,440
Speaker 1: not true. They're safer for humans. Yeah, they just have

500
00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:11,200
Speaker 1: they just have more of a fear of humans, more

501
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:15,120
Speaker 1: respective humans when they're hunted at all. And wouldn't there

502
00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:17,080
Speaker 1: be like more cards like if we didn't hunt, dear,

503
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:22,080
Speaker 1: there's being more cars like stuff like that. Oh? Absolutely, yeah.

504
00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:25,960
Speaker 1: There's all kinds of issues of of the carrying capacity

505
00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:29,880
Speaker 1: of the land um in some species, we want to

506
00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:37,479
Speaker 1: manage under the carrying capacity, like um, like any any uh,

507
00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:41,360
Speaker 1: any habitat has a carrying capacity for any certain species.

508
00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:44,080
Speaker 1: Like if we were talking about blue jays, we would say, well,

509
00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:47,120
Speaker 1: this land right here can hold this many blue jays.

510
00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:50,200
Speaker 1: So any more blue jays than that is going to

511
00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:53,520
Speaker 1: be detrimental to the population as a whole. They're gonna

512
00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:56,200
Speaker 1: have less food, they're gonna left less places to nest.

513
00:32:56,880 --> 00:32:59,440
Speaker 1: Predators are going to increase because of how many blue

514
00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:02,520
Speaker 1: jays they are. Uh you know, there's all these negative things.

515
00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:05,040
Speaker 1: They're gonna start getting hit by semis on the road,

516
00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:08,600
Speaker 1: they're gonna be you know, stealing you know, your mom's

517
00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:14,280
Speaker 1: pie out of a window. Uh So. But so a

518
00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:17,720
Speaker 1: lot of times we want to manage just undercarrying capacity,

519
00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:21,080
Speaker 1: and that way you actually have a super healthy population

520
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:24,440
Speaker 1: of animals. Yeah, because there's plenty of food, there's plenty

521
00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:28,239
Speaker 1: of nesting habitat, there's you know. So I think one

522
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:31,080
Speaker 1: of the other things is like that perception comes from

523
00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:34,920
Speaker 1: where where someone would look at a bear and think about,

524
00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:38,760
Speaker 1: oh that bear like lack in public perception. But if

525
00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:42,440
Speaker 1: you're like looking at convert conservation and you're looking at

526
00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:44,600
Speaker 1: it from a scientific method. You're looking at the whole

527
00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:46,240
Speaker 1: group of animals and not just the one that you

528
00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:48,040
Speaker 1: see in front of you. You know, I think there's

529
00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:50,800
Speaker 1: a difference in understanding there. It's like, uh, in the

530
00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:54,479
Speaker 1: public's eye that is not as knowledgeable inside of it.

531
00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:56,440
Speaker 1: They would look and see a tree, and then everyone

532
00:33:56,440 --> 00:33:57,920
Speaker 1: else would look out and just see it like, well,

533
00:33:57,920 --> 00:33:59,560
Speaker 1: there's a lot of trees that make up a forest,

534
00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:02,120
Speaker 1: you know, And so it's like a difference of like

535
00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:04,920
Speaker 1: emotion of just the one versus like what's good for

536
00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:07,840
Speaker 1: the whole. Well, I think I heard Ronella said at

537
00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:11,080
Speaker 1: one time, and he may have heard it from somebody

538
00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:13,759
Speaker 1: else that like this. But you know, we like the

539
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:17,800
Speaker 1: idea of dear better than we like the individual deer

540
00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:21,080
Speaker 1: that we take. So yeah, we there is we do

541
00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:26,960
Speaker 1: kill an individual animal, but for the betterment of the whole.

542
00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:30,920
Speaker 1: And so the idea of dear is that they actually thrive.

543
00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:36,160
Speaker 1: They do better. Bears do better when there is you know,

544
00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:39,320
Speaker 1: some management that is in correlation with the amount of

545
00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:43,000
Speaker 1: habitat that they have that fits them. So yeah, we

546
00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:46,320
Speaker 1: gotta kill one. And I I recently was right and

547
00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:49,400
Speaker 1: working on a little writing project, and and I said

548
00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:54,520
Speaker 1: that killing something in order to protect it, it's kind

549
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:57,960
Speaker 1: of an odd shaped pill. But sometimes the truth is

550
00:34:57,960 --> 00:35:01,239
Speaker 1: hard to swallow. Yeah, that's the true because it does

551
00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:03,640
Speaker 1: not make sense. And that's why this story of ours

552
00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:07,600
Speaker 1: is so complex. As hunters, it's a complex story. It

553
00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:11,440
Speaker 1: is not understood at a glance. You don't just get

554
00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:15,080
Speaker 1: it unless somebody shows you, and unless somebody tells you

555
00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:18,240
Speaker 1: guess what. Such is life. Much of life is complex

556
00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:21,160
Speaker 1: and it's understood at a glance. And so this idea

557
00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:24,640
Speaker 1: that we've got to kill something to protect it is

558
00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:28,200
Speaker 1: an odd shaped pill. But sometimes the truth is hard

559
00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:32,320
Speaker 1: to swallow. But people, people can connect with these ideas

560
00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:35,800
Speaker 1: if they can understand it. Some people never will, you know.

561
00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:38,480
Speaker 1: I mean, some people are just they're never gonna like

562
00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:41,520
Speaker 1: the idea of hunting and whatever. They're a small percentage

563
00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:44,320
Speaker 1: of people. There was a recent study, I think it

564
00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:49,759
Speaker 1: um that said that in the high seventieth percentile of

565
00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:54,920
Speaker 1: people in America, we're accepting of hunting if the meat

566
00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:57,680
Speaker 1: was used for food, if the animal for if the

567
00:35:57,719 --> 00:36:02,320
Speaker 1: animals used in a utilitarian way. That's a really powerful statistic.

568
00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:05,040
Speaker 1: So if people know, and I think we can even

569
00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:08,839
Speaker 1: read into that more if people have understanding of why

570
00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:11,920
Speaker 1: and how and how we're using it. If they understand,

571
00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:15,560
Speaker 1: then they get it. And so it's not just meat,

572
00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:18,399
Speaker 1: you know, it's not just that piece, even though that's

573
00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:21,680
Speaker 1: a very critical piece and a foundational core of our

574
00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:25,000
Speaker 1: hunting is that we eat these animals. But it's so

575
00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:27,799
Speaker 1: much bigger, even in in more robust than even that.

576
00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:33,200
Speaker 1: You know, Yeah, and so, but these simple things are

577
00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:37,880
Speaker 1: pretty powerful. Okay, So management of wildlife is based on science.

578
00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:43,920
Speaker 1: Was number six? Number seven is protecting the democratic allocation

579
00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:49,560
Speaker 1: of citizen opportunity to harvest wildlife. That's a fancy way

580
00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:54,200
Speaker 1: to say that the common protecting the rights of the

581
00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:58,759
Speaker 1: common man to be able to hunt. And that is

582
00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:02,800
Speaker 1: truly in the mirror an idea. Nobody had that idea before.

583
00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:06,520
Speaker 1: I mean nomadic peoples that wandered this place, before there

584
00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:09,800
Speaker 1: were states and governments. Did you know just that everybody

585
00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:13,200
Speaker 1: has a right to hunt? Um? But once governments began

586
00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:18,440
Speaker 1: to be formed river, did you know that? Um? When

587
00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:26,120
Speaker 1: people began to cultivate grain, and there's some people anthropologists

588
00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:31,720
Speaker 1: that believe that grain was the gateway to to the state,

589
00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:35,800
Speaker 1: and by the state, I mean the government because grain

590
00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:41,080
Speaker 1: was the stationary agricultural product that could be taxed, and

591
00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:47,160
Speaker 1: they regulated it. And Uh, anyway, um I was talking

592
00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:50,280
Speaker 1: about nomadic people forming government because there were these nomadic

593
00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:53,680
Speaker 1: tribes and once they started to do sedentary agriculture, they

594
00:37:53,719 --> 00:37:56,920
Speaker 1: began to form states. And at that point the government

595
00:37:57,000 --> 00:38:00,360
Speaker 1: had to get involved with people's lives. And um, I

596
00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:06,680
Speaker 1: think the first recorded wildlife laws came from what continent?

597
00:38:07,040 --> 00:38:09,480
Speaker 1: Little Quiz I would not have known this, No way

598
00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:12,160
Speaker 1: I would have known this. Which continent? Yeah? Which continent

599
00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:14,759
Speaker 1: was the first? Were the first wildlife laws? Which where

600
00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:18,280
Speaker 1: did they come from? I'll give you three more seconds,

601
00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:26,440
Speaker 1: three to one. Okay, we got europe An. You've got it.

602
00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:29,719
Speaker 1: You've got I mean, the buzzer had already gone. So

603
00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:31,680
Speaker 1: like if this were jeopardy or something, you would have

604
00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:38,120
Speaker 1: been disqualified. Asia Kubla Khan, the Mongol was the first one.

605
00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:42,000
Speaker 1: Good job. Yeah, don't we know? We can't even elbow

606
00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:46,440
Speaker 1: five in quarantine. Uh. Kubla Khan as the first recorded

607
00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:51,200
Speaker 1: wildlife management in the twelve hundreds and uh he ordered

608
00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:54,680
Speaker 1: that there would be no hunting wildlife from March through October,

609
00:38:55,480 --> 00:38:59,799
Speaker 1: which is essentially the modern hunting season for North for

610
00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:03,560
Speaker 1: for the northern hemisphere, you know, October through February, that's

611
00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:06,640
Speaker 1: pretty much our hunting season. Yeah, Kubla Khan was the

612
00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:08,680
Speaker 1: first one that did it, and then the Game Act

613
00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:18,560
Speaker 1: in England one was big. Um so okay, great, excellent, Um.

614
00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:20,920
Speaker 1: This book does a good job. These guys do a

615
00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:24,600
Speaker 1: good job of talking about the the perceived weaknesses of

616
00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:28,279
Speaker 1: the model, Like they actually emphasized that so much. I

617
00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:30,640
Speaker 1: almost was kind of like, come on, guys, you don't

618
00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:35,080
Speaker 1: have to beat yourself up so bad. Um. But one

619
00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:38,319
Speaker 1: thing that they said, and I actually think this proves

620
00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:41,839
Speaker 1: a point to our case, is that one of the

621
00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:46,640
Speaker 1: criticisms of the North American model is that it doesn't

622
00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:54,280
Speaker 1: target non game species, only game species. And so again

623
00:39:54,320 --> 00:39:57,880
Speaker 1: going back to the first statement about how you know, um,

624
00:39:58,880 --> 00:40:02,560
Speaker 1: there's all this know their species going extinct, small, big,

625
00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:06,680
Speaker 1: but in different places. The long story short, the model

626
00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:11,280
Speaker 1: doesn't address the small things often, which to me builds

627
00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:14,080
Speaker 1: the point that where animals are hunted, where they have value,

628
00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:20,920
Speaker 1: they are protected. Um okay, let's uh, let's uh okay.

629
00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:24,160
Speaker 1: Incentivized conservation is the thing that they talk a lot about.

630
00:40:24,239 --> 00:40:26,880
Speaker 1: That is I think something that we ought to be

631
00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:31,319
Speaker 1: able to talk about is that this idea that is

632
00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:35,560
Speaker 1: that people, because they have a right to hunt, they

633
00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:40,040
Speaker 1: are incentivized to protect it. They're incentivized to police themselves.

634
00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:44,239
Speaker 1: I mean, like, if you're an outlaw poacher and we're

635
00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:48,200
Speaker 1: hunting on the same ground, I am probably gonna be

636
00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:51,400
Speaker 1: you know, I'm gonna I'm gonna talk to you, I'm

637
00:40:51,440 --> 00:40:55,160
Speaker 1: gonna turn you in. I'm incentivized to protect that wildlife.

638
00:40:55,440 --> 00:40:58,799
Speaker 1: You know. Um, that's a pretty important part. I'm going

639
00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:01,239
Speaker 1: through my notes here. What you laughing about, col just

640
00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:03,680
Speaker 1: thinking it's like it's the one it's the one way

641
00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:08,879
Speaker 1: where it's like hey, it's good to be a snitch. Yeah, like, hey,

642
00:41:09,680 --> 00:41:13,720
Speaker 1: they're killing our animals. That's exactly right. Okay, So here's

643
00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:16,640
Speaker 1: some of the major threats. This was in first chapter.

644
00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:22,080
Speaker 1: Some of the major threats um to the North American

645
00:41:22,080 --> 00:41:26,600
Speaker 1: model is uh animal where welfare and animal rights, I

646
00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:29,080
Speaker 1: mean a trend of the age and we talked about

647
00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:31,920
Speaker 1: a ton on this podcast. But as anti hunting sentiment,

648
00:41:32,520 --> 00:41:37,080
Speaker 1: you know, these people that uh, you know as hunters

649
00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:40,160
Speaker 1: were a step away from being criminals in a lot

650
00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:42,959
Speaker 1: of ways when it comes to animal cruelty loss, which

651
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:47,600
Speaker 1: is bizarre. I mean, never before in human history have

652
00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:50,920
Speaker 1: have these kind of things been brought up and and

653
00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:54,480
Speaker 1: and thought about. But but it's a major deal. I'm

654
00:41:54,520 --> 00:41:56,920
Speaker 1: just gonna kind of skip over that a little bit. UH.

655
00:41:57,120 --> 00:42:01,640
Speaker 1: Declines in recreational hunting particip patient big massive thing. I'm

656
00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:05,360
Speaker 1: gonna read this. Uh. Participation in recreational hunting in Canada

657
00:42:05,360 --> 00:42:08,920
Speaker 1: the United States has been declining at significant rates for decades,

658
00:42:09,680 --> 00:42:13,239
Speaker 1: despite ongoing efforts to encourage hunter retention and recruitment. There

659
00:42:13,239 --> 00:42:16,120
Speaker 1: has been a net loss of approximately two point two

660
00:42:16,160 --> 00:42:18,759
Speaker 1: million hunters in the United States a loan since two

661
00:42:18,760 --> 00:42:23,200
Speaker 1: thousand and eleven. That's recent history, a decrease in two

662
00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:27,480
Speaker 1: point two million hunters between two thousand eleven. The proportion

663
00:42:27,480 --> 00:42:32,839
Speaker 1: of US hunters aged sixteen to forty four, though that

664
00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:41,759
Speaker 1: age decreased from sevent which basically means we're not recruiting youngers. Okay, um,

665
00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:47,120
Speaker 1: let's see um. Approximately eight percent of Canadians participated hunting

666
00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:51,400
Speaker 1: in two thousand twelve. Basically about four point five percent

667
00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:56,480
Speaker 1: of Americans today are hunters. But we've got about eleven

668
00:42:56,520 --> 00:42:59,759
Speaker 1: million people that are hunting. But because of the increasing

669
00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:04,680
Speaker 1: population of America, our percentage continues to go down. And

670
00:43:04,719 --> 00:43:07,560
Speaker 1: that's a that is a frightful thing inside of a

671
00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:13,600
Speaker 1: democratic nation because democracy means the people have the power

672
00:43:14,480 --> 00:43:19,400
Speaker 1: to vote. And uh So, anyway, these are big challenges,

673
00:43:19,719 --> 00:43:27,840
Speaker 1: big challenges. Um okay, let's uh okay the second chapter.

674
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:30,400
Speaker 1: But they started off kind of with this general overview

675
00:43:30,400 --> 00:43:32,239
Speaker 1: of North American model, which I think we've done a

676
00:43:32,239 --> 00:43:35,640
Speaker 1: good job of talking about. But I want to go back, well,

677
00:43:35,719 --> 00:43:39,240
Speaker 1: the the second the second chapter is about North American

678
00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:45,640
Speaker 1: ecological history, which to me is fascinating, apps incredibly, incredibly fascinating,

679
00:43:45,680 --> 00:43:49,120
Speaker 1: which is basically, what's the history of hunting on this continent?

680
00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:52,680
Speaker 1: And and people need to know this. We need to

681
00:43:52,719 --> 00:43:55,720
Speaker 1: know this, um and and and I'm not an expert.

682
00:43:55,760 --> 00:43:58,719
Speaker 1: I'm not an anthropologist, I'm not a scientist. I'm just

683
00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:02,000
Speaker 1: a I mean, I just so. So this isn't like

684
00:44:02,040 --> 00:44:08,800
Speaker 1: a fail proof description here, but they talked about it

685
00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:11,719
Speaker 1: quite a bit in this book. So river do you have?

686
00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:16,640
Speaker 1: Do you know when the first humans arrived in North America?

687
00:44:18,120 --> 00:44:23,160
Speaker 1: Colbe do you you should know this? There was a

688
00:44:23,560 --> 00:44:28,720
Speaker 1: there was a century, I mean century, how many thousand

689
00:44:28,840 --> 00:44:32,880
Speaker 1: years ago did North Americans around Okay, I wouldn't have

690
00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:35,400
Speaker 1: known this either unless I just it was interested in

691
00:44:35,680 --> 00:44:40,160
Speaker 1: roughly sixteen thousand years ago. The old you would have

692
00:44:40,160 --> 00:44:45,080
Speaker 1: been in the ballpark, the oldest archaeological site that has

693
00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:50,239
Speaker 1: evidence of human occupation. This is a relatively new, very

694
00:44:50,320 --> 00:44:54,799
Speaker 1: new study Cooper's Ferry in Idaho. They were Cooper's Ferry.

695
00:44:55,040 --> 00:45:00,480
Speaker 1: They recovered stone tools and bones of animals and other

696
00:45:00,560 --> 00:45:02,680
Speaker 1: things that showed that there was a human camp and

697
00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:07,600
Speaker 1: it was sixteen thousand years ago. So for for generations

698
00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:13,080
Speaker 1: there has been in the in the archaeological community. They

699
00:45:13,120 --> 00:45:17,719
Speaker 1: have known air quotes that humans came from Siberia, which

700
00:45:17,760 --> 00:45:20,400
Speaker 1: is true that that still remains true. But they believed

701
00:45:20,440 --> 00:45:23,760
Speaker 1: that humans came from Siberia first through the Burying land Bridge.

702
00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:26,600
Speaker 1: Every human needs to know this story. Uh, you know

703
00:45:26,640 --> 00:45:29,520
Speaker 1: the Burying land Bridge River was when Siberia, you know,

704
00:45:29,680 --> 00:45:34,120
Speaker 1: Russia was connected to Alaska by land. You could have

705
00:45:34,120 --> 00:45:38,960
Speaker 1: walked to Russia from Alaska. When there were glaciers the continent,

706
00:45:39,160 --> 00:45:43,280
Speaker 1: the earth was much colder, the water of the oceans

707
00:45:43,320 --> 00:45:47,040
Speaker 1: was tied up in glaciers, and so the sea level

708
00:45:47,320 --> 00:45:51,800
Speaker 1: was much lower than it is now. And basically humans

709
00:45:51,880 --> 00:45:56,640
Speaker 1: crossed over into from Siberia into Alaska, which is true,

710
00:45:56,640 --> 00:46:00,960
Speaker 1: they did that, but this Cooper's Ferry site shows that

711
00:46:01,000 --> 00:46:04,439
Speaker 1: they were here earlier than that, because sixteen thousand years

712
00:46:04,440 --> 00:46:08,080
Speaker 1: ago there were glaciers that would have kept people from

713
00:46:08,120 --> 00:46:11,279
Speaker 1: coming down from Alaska into the Lower forty eight what's

714
00:46:11,280 --> 00:46:14,480
Speaker 1: now the Lower forty eight. And so they believe that

715
00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:18,600
Speaker 1: these people came from Siberia what is now close to well, actually,

716
00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:21,319
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure they thought it might have even been

717
00:46:21,360 --> 00:46:25,640
Speaker 1: from the japan area. Um and and and used a

718
00:46:25,719 --> 00:46:30,280
Speaker 1: water route to come up the it's either the Snake

719
00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:33,520
Speaker 1: or the Salmon River. And I can't remember test Caesar

720
00:46:33,560 --> 00:46:40,000
Speaker 1: squirrel um And So basically, sixteen thousand years ago is

721
00:46:40,040 --> 00:46:44,480
Speaker 1: when humans got here. And now this I think is

722
00:46:44,520 --> 00:46:50,160
Speaker 1: a controversial. There is some controversy around this idea is

723
00:46:50,200 --> 00:46:56,879
Speaker 1: that humans were highly influential on the extinction of the megafauna.

724
00:46:57,120 --> 00:46:59,560
Speaker 1: In this book, they present that as if that is

725
00:46:59,560 --> 00:47:03,840
Speaker 1: signed to Fick fact um. I've heard other reputable people

726
00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:07,359
Speaker 1: talk about how that's just theory because River Nukelem, did

727
00:47:07,400 --> 00:47:11,960
Speaker 1: you know, that's sixteen thousand years ago up until about

728
00:47:11,960 --> 00:47:15,560
Speaker 1: ten thousand years ago, you know, this short time period

729
00:47:16,400 --> 00:47:22,600
Speaker 1: humans overlapped a bunch of crazy wild megafauna. You know,

730
00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:27,000
Speaker 1: there were mastodons. There were giant sabertooth cats. Let me,

731
00:47:27,080 --> 00:47:29,439
Speaker 1: let me, let me read a couple of these. There

732
00:47:29,440 --> 00:47:32,239
Speaker 1: were or something like that. Let's see, there were there

733
00:47:32,239 --> 00:47:35,640
Speaker 1: were over sixty genera of large bodied mammals, giant birds,

734
00:47:35,640 --> 00:47:39,240
Speaker 1: and reptiles that inhabited the continent. Uh. There were two species.

735
00:47:39,239 --> 00:47:44,920
Speaker 1: There were camels in North America camels, two species of llamas,

736
00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:48,080
Speaker 1: four or five species of tapars a shrub ox a

737
00:47:48,160 --> 00:47:54,040
Speaker 1: forest forest musk oxen, a stag moose, Peckery's white tail,

738
00:47:54,080 --> 00:48:00,600
Speaker 1: and blacktail deer um. There were mastodons there where mammoths.

739
00:48:00,640 --> 00:48:06,080
Speaker 1: Wooly mammoths and masodons were different. Yep, they're they're different. Um.

740
00:48:06,160 --> 00:48:08,960
Speaker 1: And there were giant short faced bears. There were giant

741
00:48:09,120 --> 00:48:16,319
Speaker 1: ground sloths that weighed Uh, they weighed six thousand pounds.

742
00:48:16,840 --> 00:48:20,759
Speaker 1: River right here, right here? Serious, did you know that

743
00:48:20,840 --> 00:48:23,759
Speaker 1: there's a there's a fissure. The fissure is like a

744
00:48:23,840 --> 00:48:27,120
Speaker 1: crack in a rock within two miles of here, over

745
00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:29,680
Speaker 1: on the banks of the West Fork over there, I'm

746
00:48:29,760 --> 00:48:33,719
Speaker 1: pointing to the west Um east, I'm pointing. I meant

747
00:48:35,320 --> 00:48:41,080
Speaker 1: where they found a bunch of bones of Pleistocene animals.

748
00:48:41,440 --> 00:48:45,520
Speaker 1: So the Pleistocene describes the time period from two or

749
00:48:45,560 --> 00:48:48,800
Speaker 1: fifty thousand years ago till ten thousand years ago, okay,

750
00:48:49,080 --> 00:48:52,560
Speaker 1: And from ten thousand years ago to now is the

751
00:48:52,600 --> 00:48:56,839
Speaker 1: Hala scene. These are terms that I'm familiarizing myself with. Okay,

752
00:48:57,000 --> 00:49:01,840
Speaker 1: the Hola scene h O L O C E n E.

753
00:49:02,680 --> 00:49:05,560
Speaker 1: Is the modern time period that we're in. So ten,

754
00:49:05,920 --> 00:49:09,279
Speaker 1: so you take a you take a the DeLorean and

755
00:49:09,320 --> 00:49:12,920
Speaker 1: go back ten thousand years back to tune or fifty

756
00:49:12,960 --> 00:49:16,000
Speaker 1: million years would have been called the Pleistocene. The earth

757
00:49:16,120 --> 00:49:22,440
Speaker 1: was colder. Uh many periods of glacial advance and glacial

758
00:49:22,520 --> 00:49:27,040
Speaker 1: retreat based upon the climate getting hot and the climate

759
00:49:27,080 --> 00:49:33,000
Speaker 1: getting cold. Crazy animals and humans were here during that time. Uh.

760
00:49:33,000 --> 00:49:38,720
Speaker 1: In humans, UM humans killed mastodons. They they point out

761
00:49:38,760 --> 00:49:42,200
Speaker 1: a study that showed that one of the ways that

762
00:49:42,280 --> 00:49:46,160
Speaker 1: they think that UM humans were so heavily influenced on

763
00:49:46,239 --> 00:49:50,440
Speaker 1: the killing these megafauna was that they had highly toxic

764
00:49:50,640 --> 00:49:55,560
Speaker 1: poisons that they put on spear points. Yeah, there's there's

765
00:49:55,600 --> 00:49:59,080
Speaker 1: studies that showed that these that these nomadic hunters and

766
00:49:59,160 --> 00:50:02,399
Speaker 1: remember the wouldn't be like the Indian tribes that we

767
00:50:02,960 --> 00:50:06,719
Speaker 1: that we know of today, they would be descendants that

768
00:50:06,719 --> 00:50:10,600
Speaker 1: the Native American tribes that we know, these highly organized

769
00:50:10,640 --> 00:50:13,319
Speaker 1: tribes would have been descendants of these people. But at

770
00:50:13,320 --> 00:50:17,200
Speaker 1: the time, these were just like nomadic families and um

771
00:50:18,040 --> 00:50:21,359
Speaker 1: and they burned, They used a lot of fire. They

772
00:50:21,440 --> 00:50:26,040
Speaker 1: used fire to attract animals, but they also used fire

773
00:50:26,120 --> 00:50:30,200
Speaker 1: to protect themselves, like in this thick and thick areas,

774
00:50:30,239 --> 00:50:33,719
Speaker 1: they would burn so that these giant predators wouldn't come

775
00:50:33,760 --> 00:50:36,080
Speaker 1: in their camps so they can see. Like, they used

776
00:50:36,160 --> 00:50:44,160
Speaker 1: fire extensively across the landscape. And uh. And basically, whatever

777
00:50:44,280 --> 00:50:47,960
Speaker 1: happened about the time that humans got here, all these

778
00:50:48,000 --> 00:50:52,440
Speaker 1: animals died off. And it was also certainly because of

779
00:50:53,120 --> 00:50:58,640
Speaker 1: a glacial warming period that melted off glaciers and made

780
00:50:58,719 --> 00:51:02,759
Speaker 1: things a whole lot different ecologically. But but here's the

781
00:51:02,760 --> 00:51:04,600
Speaker 1: whole point of that. Why are we even talking about that?

782
00:51:05,480 --> 00:51:09,800
Speaker 1: Because the big argument inside of modern the modern world

783
00:51:10,520 --> 00:51:13,040
Speaker 1: is that why don't we just let nature be natural?

784
00:51:14,239 --> 00:51:17,880
Speaker 1: What's the problem with that river? What's the problem? What

785
00:51:17,920 --> 00:51:20,839
Speaker 1: would you say if someone said, hey, nature should just

786
00:51:20,880 --> 00:51:24,879
Speaker 1: be natural, we should just let it go. That's that's

787
00:51:24,880 --> 00:51:29,080
Speaker 1: called the preservationist mentality. Like we should just preserve nature

788
00:51:30,040 --> 00:51:34,160
Speaker 1: minus humans. What's the problem with that? What's the ideological

789
00:51:34,320 --> 00:51:40,240
Speaker 1: problem with that? This place is go ahead, go ahead,

790
00:51:40,239 --> 00:51:42,080
Speaker 1: you were going. I don't think that this is the

791
00:51:42,160 --> 00:51:45,440
Speaker 1: answer you're looking for, but like something has to manage that,

792
00:51:45,600 --> 00:51:50,400
Speaker 1: Like there's not a natural predator did tear here? I

793
00:51:50,400 --> 00:51:52,960
Speaker 1: don't think, Okay, you're you're that that is not a

794
00:51:53,040 --> 00:51:55,319
Speaker 1: wrong answer. That is not the answer I'm looking for.

795
00:51:57,200 --> 00:52:03,000
Speaker 1: Cold feels like I love it when people do this,

796
00:52:03,040 --> 00:52:05,479
Speaker 1: when they have like this real specific answer they want

797
00:52:05,520 --> 00:52:07,960
Speaker 1: and you don't know where they're going on. No, the

798
00:52:07,960 --> 00:52:12,240
Speaker 1: the problem with saying, hey, we need to manage wildlife

799
00:52:12,239 --> 00:52:15,640
Speaker 1: and just let it go without humans is that you'd

800
00:52:15,640 --> 00:52:20,319
Speaker 1: have to go back sixteen thousand years to find a

801
00:52:20,360 --> 00:52:24,320
Speaker 1: time when North America wasn't being heavily influenced by humans.

802
00:52:24,880 --> 00:52:30,360
Speaker 1: Human predation is natural. Yeah, find a boom. Yeah, that's it.

803
00:52:30,600 --> 00:52:35,160
Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying. I mean, this idea that humans

804
00:52:35,360 --> 00:52:39,719
Speaker 1: haven't influenced the landscape. I mean, sixteen thousand years ago,

805
00:52:39,920 --> 00:52:42,560
Speaker 1: this place did not look like it does today. I

806
00:52:42,560 --> 00:52:45,520
Speaker 1: mean quite literally. I mean, did you know that this

807
00:52:45,560 --> 00:52:50,040
Speaker 1: would have been like boreal forest right here in Arkansas? Absolutely.

808
00:52:50,160 --> 00:52:53,400
Speaker 1: The glaciers pushed out all the way to northern Missouri

809
00:52:53,040 --> 00:52:56,720
Speaker 1: that was massively colder. I mean these oak and hickory

810
00:52:56,840 --> 00:52:59,000
Speaker 1: trees that we got around here, pine trees couldn't have

811
00:52:59,000 --> 00:53:03,440
Speaker 1: even survived. So I mean this place right here was

812
00:53:04,000 --> 00:53:07,880
Speaker 1: essentially a boreal forest with all kinds of wild critters.

813
00:53:07,920 --> 00:53:10,520
Speaker 1: So I mean, like, so you say, what's natural, Well,

814
00:53:11,280 --> 00:53:16,040
Speaker 1: humans on the landscape is natural. So this idea, this

815
00:53:16,280 --> 00:53:22,799
Speaker 1: like disneyfication of of wild places absence of humans is

816
00:53:22,880 --> 00:53:27,600
Speaker 1: bizarre because humans have been influenced in this place for forever. Um.

817
00:53:27,640 --> 00:53:29,520
Speaker 1: One of the things that I learned about in this

818
00:53:29,560 --> 00:53:35,960
Speaker 1: book that I had never heard before was that they

819
00:53:36,400 --> 00:53:41,640
Speaker 1: used the term well, okay, there was a time when

820
00:53:41,760 --> 00:53:47,840
Speaker 1: Native American populations pre European arrival in North America. Europeans

821
00:53:47,840 --> 00:53:52,440
Speaker 1: started getting here, like basically in the early fifteen hundreds. Okay,

822
00:53:52,680 --> 00:53:55,560
Speaker 1: keep that in your mind. I think in fifteen seventeen,

823
00:53:55,680 --> 00:53:59,160
Speaker 1: Punts daily On landed in Florida and he was one

824
00:53:59,200 --> 00:54:02,000
Speaker 1: of the first guy that that came in. And then

825
00:54:02,840 --> 00:54:05,760
Speaker 1: French fur trappers. The French were the ones that settled

826
00:54:05,840 --> 00:54:09,600
Speaker 1: much of the interior before even the English did, the

827
00:54:09,640 --> 00:54:14,959
Speaker 1: Spanish did, Um there was the time even before that,

828
00:54:15,320 --> 00:54:19,960
Speaker 1: when some anthropologists believe that Native American populations were as

829
00:54:20,040 --> 00:54:25,080
Speaker 1: high as eighteen million people in North America. By the

830
00:54:25,239 --> 00:54:31,000
Speaker 1: seventeen hundreds, there were only approximately six hundred thousand Native

831
00:54:31,040 --> 00:54:35,399
Speaker 1: Americans in North America. So there was a time like

832
00:54:35,800 --> 00:54:38,360
Speaker 1: you you go here in the Midwest and you see

833
00:54:38,640 --> 00:54:43,560
Speaker 1: evidence of massive Native American civilizations that were not here

834
00:54:43,920 --> 00:54:47,319
Speaker 1: when Lewis and Clark came. Luis and Clark explored the

835
00:54:47,360 --> 00:54:49,640
Speaker 1: Missouri and on up to the Yellowstone stuff in the

836
00:54:49,719 --> 00:54:55,880
Speaker 1: early eighteen hundreds, um, and so the early eighteen hundreds

837
00:54:56,000 --> 00:55:00,480
Speaker 1: is the first picture, like documentable picture that we get

838
00:55:00,560 --> 00:55:03,960
Speaker 1: of what North America looked like. Well, what I'm saying

839
00:55:04,120 --> 00:55:07,080
Speaker 1: is what they said is is that there was a

840
00:55:07,160 --> 00:55:10,400
Speaker 1: time when there was a ton more because by that

841
00:55:10,480 --> 00:55:13,600
Speaker 1: time there were only like si Native Americans. There was

842
00:55:13,640 --> 00:55:18,520
Speaker 1: a time when maybe maybe there were millions of Native Americans.

843
00:55:18,960 --> 00:55:24,160
Speaker 1: So think about the ecological impact of that. So something happened,

844
00:55:24,400 --> 00:55:27,120
Speaker 1: and obviously we know something very negative happened in Native

845
00:55:27,120 --> 00:55:30,319
Speaker 1: American populations when white Europeans came. They brought you know,

846
00:55:30,480 --> 00:55:33,719
Speaker 1: disease that wiped them out. They killed them. I mean,

847
00:55:33,760 --> 00:55:40,919
Speaker 1: there was you know, just genocide essentially. Um. But what

848
00:55:41,719 --> 00:55:46,280
Speaker 1: they believe, some anthropologists biologists believe is that what Lewis

849
00:55:46,320 --> 00:55:49,920
Speaker 1: and Clark saw was actually an artifact. It was an

850
00:55:49,920 --> 00:55:54,960
Speaker 1: interesting usage the word artifact in artifact meaning it's an example.

851
00:55:55,480 --> 00:56:01,880
Speaker 1: It's like evidence of something that humans did. Because basically,

852
00:56:03,000 --> 00:56:07,640
Speaker 1: when all the Native American populations died back for whatever reason,

853
00:56:07,680 --> 00:56:12,920
Speaker 1: which we literally don't know, that wildlife population surged, and

854
00:56:12,960 --> 00:56:16,480
Speaker 1: so what Lewis and Clark and them saw and recorded

855
00:56:16,640 --> 00:56:24,520
Speaker 1: was unnatural, you got it? Yeah, And so um, that's bizarre.

856
00:56:25,120 --> 00:56:27,640
Speaker 1: I mean I never thought about that. You know, there

857
00:56:27,719 --> 00:56:31,520
Speaker 1: was a time when essentially Rocky Mountain elk, it wasn't

858
00:56:31,640 --> 00:56:34,640
Speaker 1: Rocky Mountain elk, but went from you know, all the

859
00:56:34,680 --> 00:56:38,480
Speaker 1: way from the Pacific Ocean basically to the Pennsylvania. You know,

860
00:56:38,560 --> 00:56:41,680
Speaker 1: there were elk here in Arkansas, elkohol throughout the interior.

861
00:56:42,080 --> 00:56:44,280
Speaker 1: They were bison. I'm reading a book about the Ozarks

862
00:56:44,400 --> 00:56:47,320
Speaker 1: right now, and they were bison in the Ozarks into

863
00:56:47,360 --> 00:56:56,400
Speaker 1: the eighteen forties, wild bison running in these big valleys. Um, bison.

864
00:56:56,840 --> 00:56:59,160
Speaker 1: I'm not sure how far east bison went, but I

865
00:56:59,200 --> 00:57:05,000
Speaker 1: think they went. Uh No, bison went as far as Pennsylvania.

866
00:57:05,239 --> 00:57:08,520
Speaker 1: Um and so basically they were like when there were

867
00:57:09,000 --> 00:57:12,439
Speaker 1: millions of Native Americans running around, there weren't that many here.

868
00:57:13,200 --> 00:57:16,280
Speaker 1: I'm reading the book right now Cabeza de Vaca, which

869
00:57:16,320 --> 00:57:22,720
Speaker 1: is the earliest recorded account of of Europeans traveling in

870
00:57:22,760 --> 00:57:26,600
Speaker 1: North America. And this guy, Cabeza de Vaca, which my wife,

871
00:57:26,640 --> 00:57:30,120
Speaker 1: who speaks Spanish, said that means the cow's head, and

872
00:57:30,160 --> 00:57:32,160
Speaker 1: I was like, no, it doesn't, there's that guy's name,

873
00:57:32,360 --> 00:57:35,040
Speaker 1: And then turns out she was right. It means the

874
00:57:35,080 --> 00:57:40,600
Speaker 1: guy's last name was the cow's head. Cabeza de Vaca. Um.

875
00:57:40,680 --> 00:57:44,520
Speaker 1: He traveled from Florida to Texas and spend a ton

876
00:57:44,560 --> 00:57:49,160
Speaker 1: of time in Texas, and the wildlife he talked about

877
00:57:49,600 --> 00:57:54,600
Speaker 1: was very sparse during that time. Um and Uh. But

878
00:57:54,680 --> 00:57:59,040
Speaker 1: that was in the hundreds, So wildlife populations can rebound

879
00:57:59,280 --> 00:58:02,720
Speaker 1: very quickly. I mean, even like thirty years of not

880
00:58:02,800 --> 00:58:05,920
Speaker 1: hunting an animal, massive rebound. I mean think about Arkansas

881
00:58:06,080 --> 00:58:10,200
Speaker 1: and the bears and like. So anyway, essentially about the

882
00:58:10,240 --> 00:58:14,040
Speaker 1: time we got here, native American populations died. Anyway, he

883
00:58:14,200 --> 00:58:17,680
Speaker 1: only talked about seeing deer, a few bear in Puma

884
00:58:18,160 --> 00:58:22,480
Speaker 1: and man that book. The whole time essentially to me,

885
00:58:22,640 --> 00:58:26,880
Speaker 1: the highlight of the book is Native Americans walking around hungry.

886
00:58:27,520 --> 00:58:30,200
Speaker 1: Really like he talked about how these people were just

887
00:58:30,400 --> 00:58:35,919
Speaker 1: incredibly resilient people for how they could withstand hunger, talking

888
00:58:35,960 --> 00:58:40,439
Speaker 1: about these Native American tribes and enduring quality. Yeah, I mean,

889
00:58:40,800 --> 00:58:46,520
Speaker 1: Kyle Lee incredible, incredible book. Um, But I say I

890
00:58:47,400 --> 00:58:51,320
Speaker 1: point out all of that talk was to highlight this

891
00:58:51,480 --> 00:58:54,960
Speaker 1: idea of what is natural, because because that might be

892
00:58:55,240 --> 00:58:58,240
Speaker 1: something that someone says, like, why don't you just let

893
00:58:58,320 --> 00:59:02,640
Speaker 1: nature be nature? And then you know, we are nature.

894
00:59:03,440 --> 00:59:05,800
Speaker 1: We have as much of a right to be here

895
00:59:05,880 --> 00:59:09,640
Speaker 1: as a predator as a wolf does. We have as

896
00:59:09,720 --> 00:59:12,960
Speaker 1: much of a right to be a predator. We've actually

897
00:59:12,960 --> 00:59:17,720
Speaker 1: been here longer than coyotes. You know, coyotes are expanding eastward,

898
00:59:17,760 --> 00:59:20,400
Speaker 1: and they weren't natural here, you know, I mean they

899
00:59:20,400 --> 00:59:24,280
Speaker 1: were natural in parts of the US. But I mean, like, yeah,

900
00:59:24,280 --> 00:59:28,240
Speaker 1: I'm making a point. I'm perbly exaggeration, make a point

901
00:59:29,120 --> 00:59:34,400
Speaker 1: right where you know that, don't you? Um? So I

902
00:59:34,760 --> 00:59:40,720
Speaker 1: think that's uh, that's incredible. Um, American landscapes aren't natural

903
00:59:40,800 --> 00:59:44,200
Speaker 1: when they're free of humans. Humans are natural. There's never

904
00:59:44,240 --> 00:59:47,240
Speaker 1: been harmony between humans and nature. I mean just like

905
00:59:47,280 --> 00:59:50,600
Speaker 1: there's never been harmony between wolves and elk. Wolves have

906
00:59:50,680 --> 00:59:53,800
Speaker 1: always killed elk. Elk have always been afraid of wolves

907
00:59:53,840 --> 00:59:58,480
Speaker 1: when they saw them or or or if they exhibited

908
00:59:59,280 --> 01:00:03,280
Speaker 1: fear related responses that humans would say is fear with me. Okay,

909
01:00:03,320 --> 01:00:05,240
Speaker 1: here's here's the last thing. We may We may end

910
01:00:05,240 --> 01:00:07,840
Speaker 1: on this because I don't want to dig too deep.

911
01:00:08,520 --> 01:00:11,120
Speaker 1: We may have a part two of this. But the

912
01:00:11,160 --> 01:00:16,320
Speaker 1: North American model of wildlife conservation depends on three things,

913
01:00:16,840 --> 01:00:21,640
Speaker 1: and I think this is fascinating, all right, So let

914
01:00:21,720 --> 01:00:25,200
Speaker 1: me start off by saying that the North American model

915
01:00:25,720 --> 01:00:31,600
Speaker 1: is unexportable, like if this model was so successful, and

916
01:00:31,840 --> 01:00:34,440
Speaker 1: I want to qualify this statement with some research, but

917
01:00:35,160 --> 01:00:36,840
Speaker 1: because I say this a lot and I just want

918
01:00:36,840 --> 01:00:38,880
Speaker 1: to make sure that's right, we have more big game

919
01:00:38,920 --> 01:00:43,560
Speaker 1: than anywhere in the world. I So I mean, like

920
01:00:43,600 --> 01:00:46,240
Speaker 1: what we're doing is working. So you know, when something works,

921
01:00:46,280 --> 01:00:49,000
Speaker 1: like the ideas that you could export it, you know,

922
01:00:49,240 --> 01:00:55,439
Speaker 1: to somewhere else. But there's reasons why it's inexportable. Number One,

923
01:00:55,800 --> 01:01:00,320
Speaker 1: the North American model of wildlife conservation is dependent up

924
01:01:00,360 --> 01:01:06,720
Speaker 1: on democracy. It is absolutely dependent upon democracy and the

925
01:01:06,840 --> 01:01:12,560
Speaker 1: idea that the people are incentivized to use, to to

926
01:01:12,560 --> 01:01:16,200
Speaker 1: to to have access to wildlife resources and for them

927
01:01:16,240 --> 01:01:18,840
Speaker 1: to be able to vote and to manage, you know,

928
01:01:18,920 --> 01:01:21,280
Speaker 1: vote is probably the right word. But for the people

929
01:01:21,360 --> 01:01:24,640
Speaker 1: to manage these aren't the king's dear, These are your dear.

930
01:01:24,960 --> 01:01:28,520
Speaker 1: That's democracy. That's America. People that have a voice, people

931
01:01:28,520 --> 01:01:32,200
Speaker 1: that have a voice. That's right, that's democracy. Number two.

932
01:01:32,360 --> 01:01:35,200
Speaker 1: This is a good one. By golly, you got any

933
01:01:35,240 --> 01:01:38,960
Speaker 1: guess is the reward it would be? You don't know, um,

934
01:01:39,280 --> 01:01:44,320
Speaker 1: armed citizenry. This thing is built upon the idea that

935
01:01:44,360 --> 01:01:47,840
Speaker 1: the common man can go and hunt. There was this, uh,

936
01:01:47,880 --> 01:01:50,320
Speaker 1: there was this king in the eighteen and the sixteen

937
01:01:50,400 --> 01:01:55,640
Speaker 1: hundreds that used the Game Act of England to disarm

938
01:01:55,720 --> 01:01:58,200
Speaker 1: the citizenry. Do you remember that the Game Act was

939
01:01:58,240 --> 01:02:01,400
Speaker 1: one of the first europe and game laws. Where you

940
01:02:01,400 --> 01:02:04,440
Speaker 1: were saying, that is, they belonged to the landowner. They

941
01:02:04,440 --> 01:02:09,680
Speaker 1: belonged to the landowner. And so what what happened was like, uh,

942
01:02:10,080 --> 01:02:12,760
Speaker 1: weapons were I'm not gonna say they were evenly distributed,

943
01:02:12,800 --> 01:02:15,720
Speaker 1: but like a peasant might have a gun and a

944
01:02:15,800 --> 01:02:18,840
Speaker 1: rich guy might have a gun too. Well, when they said, hey,

945
01:02:19,000 --> 01:02:21,520
Speaker 1: only the rich guys can hunt on their own land.

946
01:02:22,160 --> 01:02:27,840
Speaker 1: It gave the king justification to go and disarm the

947
01:02:28,840 --> 01:02:34,560
Speaker 1: common peasants. And so um, I say that to say

948
01:02:34,600 --> 01:02:38,360
Speaker 1: that the North American model relies on the idea that

949
01:02:38,440 --> 01:02:41,840
Speaker 1: the common man like Colby Moorehead and newkemb And River,

950
01:02:41,960 --> 01:02:45,720
Speaker 1: New camb have guns. Where else in the world is

951
01:02:45,760 --> 01:02:52,160
Speaker 1: that normal Nowhere exactly? And so if we didn't have guns,

952
01:02:52,240 --> 01:02:55,640
Speaker 1: we would not be incentivized to protect wildlife because we

953
01:02:55,640 --> 01:02:59,280
Speaker 1: wouldn't have any We couldn't go on them. So it's

954
01:02:59,320 --> 01:03:02,960
Speaker 1: like this, it's it's it's this complex web, which I

955
01:03:03,000 --> 01:03:06,800
Speaker 1: think is fascinating armed citizenry, and that even goes to

956
01:03:06,880 --> 01:03:10,320
Speaker 1: the to show the importance of you know, sometimes as

957
01:03:10,320 --> 01:03:12,880
Speaker 1: an outdoorsman, sometimes I've seen n r A stuff and

958
01:03:12,920 --> 01:03:19,480
Speaker 1: I've I've been like, uh, you know, trying to connect

959
01:03:20,600 --> 01:03:24,760
Speaker 1: outdoor stuff to totally all of their message. But it's

960
01:03:24,840 --> 01:03:28,640
Speaker 1: massively true. I Mean, the n r A is in

961
01:03:28,720 --> 01:03:32,640
Speaker 1: just their voice, is it is like pretty foundational inside

962
01:03:32,640 --> 01:03:37,880
Speaker 1: of inside of this idea. Yeah, yeah, I can see that, um,

963
01:03:37,960 --> 01:03:40,040
Speaker 1: because you know, the n r A represents a lot

964
01:03:40,080 --> 01:03:44,440
Speaker 1: of gun owners that aren't hunters, you know, Um, But

965
01:03:44,440 --> 01:03:47,960
Speaker 1: but those guys are contributing to conservation big time. I

966
01:03:47,960 --> 01:03:50,480
Speaker 1: want to talk about Pittman Robertson Man. We may have

967
01:03:50,520 --> 01:03:52,920
Speaker 1: to do a whole another part. N A. It's just

968
01:03:53,000 --> 01:03:55,480
Speaker 1: like fighting for like rights that you have, you know.

969
01:03:55,520 --> 01:03:57,840
Speaker 1: It's just like your rights, what you have access to,

970
01:03:58,040 --> 01:04:00,320
Speaker 1: what you you should have. It's like we fight for

971
01:04:00,320 --> 01:04:02,680
Speaker 1: your right to own a weapon, even if you don't

972
01:04:02,680 --> 01:04:05,560
Speaker 1: want to own a weapon, you know. And so I

973
01:04:05,560 --> 01:04:07,560
Speaker 1: think that same thing could fit inside of this to

974
01:04:07,560 --> 01:04:10,560
Speaker 1: where it's like, you know, you owned this wildlife, and

975
01:04:10,800 --> 01:04:13,000
Speaker 1: regardless of whether you're ever going to use that or not,

976
01:04:13,280 --> 01:04:15,520
Speaker 1: it's like, we're still gonna fight so that you own

977
01:04:15,560 --> 01:04:18,200
Speaker 1: your wildlife, you know, or have a right to it.

978
01:04:19,080 --> 01:04:21,720
Speaker 1: Arms Citis at number three, and this is this is

979
01:04:21,840 --> 01:04:28,040
Speaker 1: where kind of my heart inside of communication lies in

980
01:04:28,080 --> 01:04:30,280
Speaker 1: a lot of ways. It's number three is so this

981
01:04:30,320 --> 01:04:33,880
Speaker 1: is again why the what the North American model depends

982
01:04:33,920 --> 01:04:38,120
Speaker 1: on is a public perception that wildlife is a renewable

983
01:04:38,240 --> 01:04:43,720
Speaker 1: resource for consumption. Yeah, so just this just a general

984
01:04:43,800 --> 01:04:47,120
Speaker 1: idea that if you see a deer out in the field,

985
01:04:47,720 --> 01:04:50,240
Speaker 1: that you could kill that deer and eat it. You

986
01:04:50,240 --> 01:04:53,000
Speaker 1: could kill that deer and bring it home and you're

987
01:04:53,040 --> 01:04:57,080
Speaker 1: not being detrimental to wildlife by that, So the idea

988
01:04:57,120 --> 01:05:00,320
Speaker 1: of the public perception. So it's not we're not talking

989
01:05:00,360 --> 01:05:04,880
Speaker 1: about hard science, We're talking about perception. So that goes

990
01:05:04,920 --> 01:05:09,000
Speaker 1: back to the idea or you know, you know, how

991
01:05:09,080 --> 01:05:13,160
Speaker 1: how are we perceived? How are we portraying ourselves as

992
01:05:13,240 --> 01:05:16,080
Speaker 1: hunters in a world that's full of cameras, in a

993
01:05:16,120 --> 01:05:20,200
Speaker 1: world that's full of communication. How are we portraying ourselves?

994
01:05:20,200 --> 01:05:24,080
Speaker 1: How are we perceived? And and this thing depends upon

995
01:05:24,840 --> 01:05:30,320
Speaker 1: the mass of people perceiving wildlife as a renewable resource

996
01:05:30,360 --> 01:05:33,520
Speaker 1: for consumption, and so that just boy, you could have

997
01:05:33,520 --> 01:05:39,440
Speaker 1: a whole podcast about that right there. Um, but powerful

998
01:05:39,480 --> 01:05:41,560
Speaker 1: things to think about, powerful tools for us to know

999
01:05:41,600 --> 01:05:50,720
Speaker 1: about river. What's your biggest takeaway from our conversation? Impacted?

1000
01:05:51,480 --> 01:05:55,840
Speaker 1: She does, what's your what's your biggest takeaway? You know,

1001
01:05:55,880 --> 01:05:58,720
Speaker 1: I think my biggest takeaway is, uh, just how that

1002
01:05:58,880 --> 01:06:02,280
Speaker 1: thing is so ingrained inside our culture, like growing up

1003
01:06:02,320 --> 01:06:04,760
Speaker 1: inside of like the outdoors were you know, whenever I

1004
01:06:04,760 --> 01:06:06,600
Speaker 1: was born, my dad was commercial fishermen, and then we

1005
01:06:06,640 --> 01:06:08,840
Speaker 1: grew up just hunting and everything. It's like I wouldn't

1006
01:06:08,840 --> 01:06:12,040
Speaker 1: be able to to to be able to say these things,

1007
01:06:12,040 --> 01:06:14,640
Speaker 1: and my dad wouldn't be able to name one probably either,

1008
01:06:15,160 --> 01:06:17,400
Speaker 1: but it became part of a culture to where it's

1009
01:06:17,440 --> 01:06:19,040
Speaker 1: so ingrained. And I think one of the things that

1010
01:06:19,080 --> 01:06:21,479
Speaker 1: I think about is something that was in the first

1011
01:06:21,560 --> 01:06:24,640
Speaker 1: like the Newcomb video was where you were talking about

1012
01:06:24,680 --> 01:06:26,720
Speaker 1: how it's like, I don't care if my kids hunt

1013
01:06:26,800 --> 01:06:28,680
Speaker 1: when they grow up. It's but I want them to

1014
01:06:28,720 --> 01:06:30,640
Speaker 1: have a good view of the values and the culture

1015
01:06:30,680 --> 01:06:33,080
Speaker 1: that they had. And so I think that that kind

1016
01:06:33,080 --> 01:06:35,080
Speaker 1: of place hand in hand with that idea of just

1017
01:06:35,160 --> 01:06:37,680
Speaker 1: like things being built inside of the culture of like

1018
01:06:37,720 --> 01:06:40,880
Speaker 1: a family, and in the culture inside of like some sport,

1019
01:06:41,440 --> 01:06:43,560
Speaker 1: and just being one of those things that it's like

1020
01:06:43,840 --> 01:06:48,120
Speaker 1: you can track the flow of that through generations, even

1021
01:06:48,160 --> 01:06:50,800
Speaker 1: if you can't like talk about the spark of it,

1022
01:06:50,880 --> 01:06:53,360
Speaker 1: you know. And so I think for me, like just

1023
01:06:53,400 --> 01:06:57,400
Speaker 1: seeing how shifting something today inside of like my understanding

1024
01:06:57,480 --> 01:07:00,200
Speaker 1: or my context will have an effect on the there's

1025
01:07:00,240 --> 01:07:04,080
Speaker 1: that I touch. And so that's really like representing uh,

1026
01:07:04,080 --> 01:07:06,760
Speaker 1: this thing correctly and understanding and being able to have

1027
01:07:06,800 --> 01:07:09,959
Speaker 1: words to shape it could really help in ways that

1028
01:07:10,280 --> 01:07:13,080
Speaker 1: we'd never really know. But it just did something inside

1029
01:07:13,080 --> 01:07:15,360
Speaker 1: of somebody where it's like, you know, I got yeah,

1030
01:07:15,400 --> 01:07:17,080
Speaker 1: I'm okay with that. You know, I'm not gonna do it,

1031
01:07:17,120 --> 01:07:20,880
Speaker 1: but you know, it's it's something that I see someone values,

1032
01:07:20,920 --> 01:07:23,240
Speaker 1: and I see that there's value inside of it for them,

1033
01:07:23,480 --> 01:07:27,640
Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, ye good um. I think just with

1034
01:07:27,720 --> 01:07:30,800
Speaker 1: the whole conservation model and inside all those things. I

1035
01:07:30,800 --> 01:07:32,760
Speaker 1: don't think before this, I wouldn't have been able to

1036
01:07:32,800 --> 01:07:35,800
Speaker 1: like say those specific points, but when you were talking

1037
01:07:35,800 --> 01:07:37,760
Speaker 1: about them, it was really easy to like connect that

1038
01:07:37,800 --> 01:07:41,000
Speaker 1: to something we've done. And it's like, there's no way

1039
01:07:41,040 --> 01:07:42,800
Speaker 1: in the world that we would like even when we

1040
01:07:42,800 --> 01:07:44,760
Speaker 1: were little, we would go outside and squirrel hunt during

1041
01:07:44,800 --> 01:07:47,520
Speaker 1: squirrel season, and there was no way that we wouldn't

1042
01:07:47,640 --> 01:07:49,320
Speaker 1: like skin it, and like we would always come in

1043
01:07:49,320 --> 01:07:52,080
Speaker 1: and we like our mom would cook it or Willow

1044
01:07:52,080 --> 01:07:54,280
Speaker 1: would cook it or something, and like all that is

1045
01:07:54,280 --> 01:07:56,640
Speaker 1: a part of our culture and and just and hearing this,

1046
01:07:56,760 --> 01:07:59,560
Speaker 1: it just shows like we participate in nature and there's

1047
01:07:59,600 --> 01:08:02,320
Speaker 1: all these things that like And I think back to

1048
01:08:02,440 --> 01:08:05,360
Speaker 1: whenever I had been talking to people that are vegetarians

1049
01:08:05,400 --> 01:08:07,880
Speaker 1: or vegans or something like, there's always this thing of

1050
01:08:07,920 --> 01:08:11,160
Speaker 1: where they really want to like or they talk about

1051
01:08:11,200 --> 01:08:14,000
Speaker 1: like loving the animals and not wanting to hurt them,

1052
01:08:14,000 --> 01:08:16,040
Speaker 1: but it's like we are and it's like we love

1053
01:08:16,080 --> 01:08:18,479
Speaker 1: the animals and we respect those animals and we know

1054
01:08:19,439 --> 01:08:22,400
Speaker 1: like I'm every single time it's like I'm more knowledgeable

1055
01:08:22,439 --> 01:08:25,240
Speaker 1: about that animal and I have way like the amount

1056
01:08:25,280 --> 01:08:27,120
Speaker 1: of respect that I have for a black bear in

1057
01:08:27,200 --> 01:08:30,680
Speaker 1: Arkansas is way more than they could even fathom. And

1058
01:08:30,800 --> 01:08:33,120
Speaker 1: it's like this thing of respect for the animals and

1059
01:08:33,160 --> 01:08:36,760
Speaker 1: participating and preserving them and keeping them like that is

1060
01:08:36,760 --> 01:08:41,240
Speaker 1: the model of conservation in America. I think that participating

1061
01:08:41,320 --> 01:08:43,320
Speaker 1: is a big deal because it's like whenever you're going in,

1062
01:08:43,479 --> 01:08:45,360
Speaker 1: you're going into a place that they live in, you're

1063
01:08:45,360 --> 01:08:48,479
Speaker 1: participating with with their environment. It gives you a different

1064
01:08:48,479 --> 01:08:52,440
Speaker 1: perspective on everything because it's like I'm a participants participant

1065
01:08:52,800 --> 01:09:00,400
Speaker 1: inside this natural thing. You know. Very good, very good. Well, hey,

1066
01:09:00,840 --> 01:09:03,719
Speaker 1: check out this book. It's called The North American Malad

1067
01:09:03,720 --> 01:09:07,960
Speaker 1: Wildlife Conservation, edited by Shane Mahoney and Valerious Geist. Like

1068
01:09:08,040 --> 01:09:12,120
Speaker 1: I said, it's a it's it's it's thick. Well, it's

1069
01:09:12,120 --> 01:09:14,120
Speaker 1: not thick. It's not it's not it's not that long

1070
01:09:14,160 --> 01:09:17,479
Speaker 1: of a book, but it's a fascinating I think it

1071
01:09:17,520 --> 01:09:22,280
Speaker 1: needs to be in everybody's bookshelf and uh, River, why

1072
01:09:22,280 --> 01:09:25,640
Speaker 1: don't you uh close out the podcast? You know what

1073
01:09:25,680 --> 01:09:32,559
Speaker 1: to say? What does everyone freeze up? Everybody? I've done

1074
01:09:32,560 --> 01:09:36,960
Speaker 1: this twice, everybody, everybody just reason, hey, hey, Before we

1075
01:09:37,000 --> 01:09:39,920
Speaker 1: get off, though, we gotta give a plug for the film.

1076
01:09:40,840 --> 01:09:48,840
Speaker 1: Now we've probably watched that. Like I'm not exaggerating, he'll

1077
01:09:48,840 --> 01:09:50,679
Speaker 1: come if he comes to the house for one second.

1078
01:09:50,720 --> 01:09:54,000
Speaker 1: He wants to love does I'm trying to boost the

1079
01:09:54,520 --> 01:09:59,080
Speaker 1: first Light algorithms. No, first Light made a film. They

1080
01:09:59,120 --> 01:10:02,360
Speaker 1: came to they came to Arkansas, stated are Well, they

1081
01:10:02,400 --> 01:10:04,240
Speaker 1: didn't stay at our house, but they were at our

1082
01:10:04,240 --> 01:10:07,120
Speaker 1: house for three or four days and films we they

1083
01:10:07,120 --> 01:10:10,639
Speaker 1: made an incredible film, for sure. I mean I'm biased

1084
01:10:10,680 --> 01:10:13,800
Speaker 1: about the content, but I'm talking about the content. If

1085
01:10:13,840 --> 01:10:18,280
Speaker 1: they had devoted what they devoted to telling anybody's story,

1086
01:10:18,360 --> 01:10:21,240
Speaker 1: it would have been good. It's a really good it

1087
01:10:21,280 --> 01:10:24,519
Speaker 1: really was. And uh. And so the story it's called

1088
01:10:24,600 --> 01:10:29,680
Speaker 1: it's called nukem Um and it's uh, it's about it

1089
01:10:29,720 --> 01:10:32,000
Speaker 1: tells the story of of of me training a mule.

1090
01:10:32,520 --> 01:10:34,679
Speaker 1: It tells the story of kind of some small game

1091
01:10:34,760 --> 01:10:38,520
Speaker 1: hunting squirrel hunting on mules and kind of that ideology

1092
01:10:38,520 --> 01:10:42,439
Speaker 1: around that talks about bears, talk about a dream I

1093
01:10:42,520 --> 01:10:45,519
Speaker 1: had of a big buck that catalyzed me into the

1094
01:10:45,520 --> 01:10:49,439
Speaker 1: outdoor industry. Um. And then uh it ended with some

1095
01:10:49,720 --> 01:10:56,879
Speaker 1: uh a really strong appeal for for passionate people as hunters,

1096
01:10:56,880 --> 01:11:01,160
Speaker 1: which we are, we're passionate people, Uh, to balanced inside

1097
01:11:01,160 --> 01:11:03,280
Speaker 1: of the way that they managed their life with their

1098
01:11:03,360 --> 01:11:06,040
Speaker 1: between their family and their passion. And that's been an

1099
01:11:06,040 --> 01:11:09,320
Speaker 1: ongoing process inside of me and in a continued process.

1100
01:11:10,000 --> 01:11:12,960
Speaker 1: Is is that? And I was so glad that that's

1101
01:11:12,960 --> 01:11:15,800
Speaker 1: what they captured. I said this before, but I talked

1102
01:11:15,840 --> 01:11:18,120
Speaker 1: about a ton of stuff that they didn't put on

1103
01:11:18,120 --> 01:11:21,040
Speaker 1: the film. Yeah. Um, I really did a ton of

1104
01:11:21,080 --> 01:11:23,840
Speaker 1: stuff and that's what they wanted to talk about, which

1105
01:11:23,880 --> 01:11:26,639
Speaker 1: I was thrilled with. Yeah. So yeah, check out first

1106
01:11:26,680 --> 01:11:30,040
Speaker 1: Light uh first light YouTube channel, there's a home if

1107
01:11:30,080 --> 01:11:32,759
Speaker 1: you go to first light dot com. There's a sweet

1108
01:11:32,880 --> 01:11:37,440
Speaker 1: picture dude shooting a bow off on mule on their

1109
01:11:37,520 --> 01:11:41,599
Speaker 1: on their website. Check that out. But river closes down,

1110
01:11:45,160 --> 01:11:51,120
Speaker 1: I know what, I know it hard. I just keep

1111
01:11:51,160 --> 01:11:55,080
Speaker 1: the wild placed as wild because that's where the bears live. Right. Bam,

1112
01:11:55,200 --> 01:11:56,479
Speaker 1: you got yeah, you got