WEBVTT - CDC's Credibility in Question After Pandemic Stumbles

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<v Speaker 1>It's Tuesday, September twenty nine. I'm Oscar Ramiras from the

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<v Speaker 1>Daily Dive podcast in Los Angeles, and this is reopening America.

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<v Speaker 1>The CDC, one of the most admired public health agencies

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<v Speaker 1>in the country, has seen its credibility road over the

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<v Speaker 1>course of the pandemic. There were some stumbles early on

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<v Speaker 1>in the rollout of test kits, to the changing guidance

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<v Speaker 1>on aerosols and how the coronavirus spreads. The agency has

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<v Speaker 1>also had to deal with political interference. Lena's Son, health

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<v Speaker 1>reporter at the Washington Post, joins us for out has

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<v Speaker 1>been a disaster for the c d C. Thanks for

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<v Speaker 1>joining us, Lena. Happy to be here. I wanted to

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<v Speaker 1>talk about the CDC and what's been going on throughout

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<v Speaker 1>this pandemic that we're going through. It's been around for

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<v Speaker 1>a long time. For a while, it was the most

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<v Speaker 1>admired public health agency, but there's been a series of missteps,

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<v Speaker 1>starting at the very beginning of the pandemic with a

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<v Speaker 1>botched rollout of testing kits, which kind of put is behind.

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<v Speaker 1>The latest thing we've encountered was the guidance on aerosols

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<v Speaker 1>that they had a retract saying it was kind of

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<v Speaker 1>a rough draft that they're working on. There's a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of things that are going on in the CDC right now,

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<v Speaker 1>and you know, maybe public confidence is not all there

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<v Speaker 1>right now. So Lena, tell us a little bit about

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<v Speaker 1>what's going on with the CDC. Well, I think that

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<v Speaker 1>your last point is definitely true. The trust in CDC

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<v Speaker 1>is at an all time low. And when you're dealing

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<v Speaker 1>with a public health crisis, your main weapon is trust.

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<v Speaker 1>And the reason why there's loss of institutional credibility at

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<v Speaker 1>this time when the United States so desperately needs to

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<v Speaker 1>know whom to trust is as you mentioned, there's been

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<v Speaker 1>a series of things, some are honest mistakes by CDC.

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<v Speaker 1>The test failure in the beginning of the year really

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<v Speaker 1>was perhaps the original sin, which prevented the United States

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<v Speaker 1>from seeing early on how widespread the virus was. But

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<v Speaker 1>then since then, I would say most of the problem

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<v Speaker 1>has been with political interference from the White House and

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<v Speaker 1>higher ups at JHS, pressuring the cd SEE to issue

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<v Speaker 1>guidance or change guidance or not include things and guidance

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<v Speaker 1>so that those recommendations to the public were delayed and

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<v Speaker 1>watered down. And then this most recent back and forth

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<v Speaker 1>was actually an honest mistake. But because there had been

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<v Speaker 1>this record of political interference with CDC's work, people didn't

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<v Speaker 1>believe the CDC when the CDC says no, really, this

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<v Speaker 1>was an honest mistake. One of the things you wrote

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<v Speaker 1>about in your article are about not really being a

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<v Speaker 1>central public face for the CDC. We have the CDC Director,

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<v Speaker 1>Robert Redfield, who has been out testifying on Capitol Hill

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<v Speaker 1>and making a couple of interviews and whatnot, but there

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<v Speaker 1>hasn't really been anybody else that kind of stepped up

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<v Speaker 1>in there. So let's talk about Robert Redfield and how

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<v Speaker 1>he's leading this public health agency right now. So. Dr

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<v Speaker 1>Redfield is a really nice guy, solid guy. I have

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<v Speaker 1>talked to him numerous times, as hard as in the

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<v Speaker 1>right place. He is not an effective communicator if you

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<v Speaker 1>see his public appearances at the hearings and is on television.

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<v Speaker 1>But more importantly, when he was appointed to this job,

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<v Speaker 1>he did not have any experience in running a big

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<v Speaker 1>public health agency as large and as complex as the CDC,

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<v Speaker 1>and in the time of a pandemic, In a time

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<v Speaker 1>of a crisis, you need to be having briefings daily

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<v Speaker 1>to the American public where you say, here's what we

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<v Speaker 1>know today about the virus, here's what we don't know,

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<v Speaker 1>here's what we think you ought to do, here's what

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<v Speaker 1>we think works best. But the CDC has been completely silenced.

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<v Speaker 1>There has been no public briefing for three months. And

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<v Speaker 1>I take you back to just last year when we

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<v Speaker 1>had all those vaping related lung injury cases. There were

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<v Speaker 1>briefings several times a week as soon as they learned

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<v Speaker 1>something how it was related to vape being a right

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<v Speaker 1>aminy ascetate. And then I take you all the way

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<v Speaker 1>back to zica ebola. The two thousand and nine pandemic,

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<v Speaker 1>which was a flu pandemic with H one N one,

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<v Speaker 1>was led by CDC. Their responses, they had a briefing

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<v Speaker 1>almost every day for six weeks. So let me just

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<v Speaker 1>repeat that, a briefing every day for almost six weeks,

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<v Speaker 1>and we have heard nothing. And when the White House

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<v Speaker 1>has a briefing, it's Trump and you know what, he

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<v Speaker 1>is not a scientist exactly. And that's what they've been

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<v Speaker 1>side step for for the President and earlier on the

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<v Speaker 1>Coronavirus Task Force. But that's kind of been done away

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<v Speaker 1>with now. Right now, you see the president. You'll see

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<v Speaker 1>Dr Scott Atlas, which is another controversial figure there, just

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<v Speaker 1>because he has no public health experience in in this

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<v Speaker 1>kind of genre of things. So that's what we're getting

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<v Speaker 1>instead of CDC updates. Let's talk a little bit about

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<v Speaker 1>the CDC's role in the rollout of a vaccine once

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<v Speaker 1>it gets approved. So the CDC is gonna have a

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<v Speaker 1>major role in that. Obviously the f d A is

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<v Speaker 1>going to be approving the vaccine, but from there, the

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<v Speaker 1>CDC is going to have a lot of influence on

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<v Speaker 1>how it gets distributed. It's a process that involves multiple agencies.

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<v Speaker 1>So there's been a lot of attention on how safe

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<v Speaker 1>and the defective of the vaccine will be. That is

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<v Speaker 1>the job of the Food and Drug Administration, the FDA,

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<v Speaker 1>and it has had its own separate trust issues with

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<v Speaker 1>its commissioner. And then once the vaccine is approved safe,

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<v Speaker 1>the CDC has a federal advisory panel that will then

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<v Speaker 1>decide well, who should get it first? Should it be

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<v Speaker 1>healthcare workers, essential workers? Who among the healthcare workers? Should

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<v Speaker 1>it be people who have direct or indirect patient care.

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<v Speaker 1>Those recommendations are made by this Federal advisory Panel to

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<v Speaker 1>the CDC that the CDC will they have almost in

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<v Speaker 1>every single case accepted their recommendation, and then the federal

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<v Speaker 1>government will let the states know, here are the folks

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<v Speaker 1>we think should get the first initial doses. Because it

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<v Speaker 1>will be limited numbers of vaccine doses. The states will

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<v Speaker 1>then decide in each of its states, of their own

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<v Speaker 1>states population, who among those, like four buckets or five

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<v Speaker 1>buckets should get it. And then once it comes time

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<v Speaker 1>to distributing the vaccine, it will be up to the

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<v Speaker 1>CDC to help lead this very big and complicated effort

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<v Speaker 1>to get the doses actually out to people. So where

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<v Speaker 1>do we get how do we get back to center this?

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<v Speaker 1>How does the CDC regain their credibility after these blunders

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<v Speaker 1>were obviously still going through the pandemic and everything is

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<v Speaker 1>moving so fast, and we've talked a little bit about

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<v Speaker 1>the political interference that seems like that's not going to

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<v Speaker 1>go away just yet. So how does the CDC regain

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<v Speaker 1>that credibility? One of the issues is Dr Redfield, who

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<v Speaker 1>has been appointed, And the criticism of Dr Redfield is

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<v Speaker 1>from inside the agency and outside the agency that he

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<v Speaker 1>has not done enough to stand up for the hard

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<v Speaker 1>working professionals at CDC, the scientists who are doing the work,

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<v Speaker 1>but they're not being allowed to talk about it or

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<v Speaker 1>explain it. Or when something has changed the guidance, why

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<v Speaker 1>did the CDC change its mask guidance? There was nobody

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<v Speaker 1>from CDC to explain what the science was or why

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<v Speaker 1>they changed that. So there are some people who say, well,

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<v Speaker 1>as a start, why don't you let the experts talk?

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<v Speaker 1>That is perhaps not going to be as likely under

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<v Speaker 1>this administration. So then they're thinking, like, it's come November three,

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<v Speaker 1>If there is a change and we have a different director,

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<v Speaker 1>perhaps that would make a difference. But there are others

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<v Speaker 1>who feel that the damage has been so deep that

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<v Speaker 1>the only way to really do a reboot is to

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<v Speaker 1>get rid of the current structure. The States director is

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<v Speaker 1>not someone who is Senate confirmed, unlike the FDA commissioner

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<v Speaker 1>or the NIH director, so that person is appointed by

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<v Speaker 1>the Health Secretary. But one thought that is out there

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<v Speaker 1>is that you replace the current leadership structure at CTC

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<v Speaker 1>with a board of governors with staggered terms that lasted

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<v Speaker 1>longer than a president, and that's one way to get

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<v Speaker 1>rid of political interference. Lena Son, health reporter at the

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<v Speaker 1>Washington Post Thank you very much for joining us. Thank you.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm Oscar Ramirez and this has been reopening America. Don't

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<v Speaker 1>forget that. For today's big news stories, you can check

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<v Speaker 1>me out on the Daily Dive podcast every money through Friday,

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<v Speaker 1>So follow us on I Heart Radio or wherever you

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