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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, home of the

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Speaker 1: modern white tail hunter and now your host, Mark Kenyon.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. Today on the show,

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Speaker 1: I'm joined by Tony Peterson, Torn Miller from the n

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Speaker 1: d A and Bethany Herb from Pheasants Forever to discuss

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Speaker 1: strategies for hunting white tails and grassland habitats and how

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Speaker 1: we can save this threatened habitat type across the country.

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Speaker 1: All right, welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, brought

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Speaker 1: to you by First Life. So it's conservation month here

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Speaker 1: on the Wired Hunt podcast, as you might have heard,

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Speaker 1: and today we are going to talk about conservation. We

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Speaker 1: are also going to talk about hunting tactics, but specifically

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Speaker 1: we're talking about grass. Grass not the kind that some

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Speaker 1: folks like to smoke legally, mind you, here in my

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Speaker 1: homestad of Michigan, and not the kind that stupidly we

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Speaker 1: plant and mowing our yards. I really want to get

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Speaker 1: away from that. It's my goal to rewild my yards

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Speaker 1: someday and never mowed again. But that's not the point. No,

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Speaker 1: we are talking about the grass out there across the

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Speaker 1: country where deer and birds and rabbits and bugs flourish,

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Speaker 1: and where smart deer hunters post up in search of

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Speaker 1: big old bucks. Yeah, grasslands are where all those things happen.

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Speaker 1: This kind of habitat, it exists just about everywhere across

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Speaker 1: the country in one form or another, from crp Fields

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Speaker 1: and the ad country of the Midwest, all the way

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Speaker 1: to the Great Plains out west, and a whole bunch

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Speaker 1: of points in between. And this is some primo ground

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Speaker 1: for wildlife and for deer hunters, and for hunters of

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Speaker 1: a lot of other stuff too. But this is also

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Speaker 1: a kind of habitat that is rapidly disappearing. So here's

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Speaker 1: what to do today, my friends. We've got a two

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Speaker 1: partner for you. In part one, we've got my buddy,

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Speaker 1: the one and only host of the Foundation's mini series,

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Speaker 1: the one and only Tony Peterson, And we're gonna spend

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Speaker 1: some time talking with him, a guy who spent a

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Speaker 1: lot of time hunting deer and grassy habitats, and we're

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Speaker 1: gonna chat about why both he and I love hunting

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Speaker 1: these kinds of places. We're gonna talking about some of

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Speaker 1: our favorite experiences around them, and then we're gonna dive

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Speaker 1: into a bunch of strategies and advice for hunting deer

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Speaker 1: in this kind of stuff. So, how can you hunt

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Speaker 1: deer in CRP fields, in the planes, in other grassy

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Speaker 1: habitat across the country. That's that's Part one. Then in

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Speaker 1: Part two, we're going to dive into the challenges that

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Speaker 1: these kinds of places are facing across the country, some

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Speaker 1: serious challenges and a new opportunity we might have to

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Speaker 1: help save them, called the North American Grasslands Conservation Act,

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Speaker 1: and discuss this. We're joined by Torn Miller, the director

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Speaker 1: of Policy for the National Deer Association, and Bethany Herb,

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Speaker 1: the director of Government Affairs at Pheasants Forever. And let

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Speaker 1: me reiterate just how important this is. By the measure

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Speaker 1: of one report, we've lost about fifty million acres of

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Speaker 1: this habitat in about the last decade to development, crop conversion, fragmentation, firing,

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Speaker 1: a lot of other stuff. Fifty million effing acres. Fifty

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Speaker 1: million acres. That's a whole lot of good deer hunting

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Speaker 1: ground and pheasant hunting and nesting grounds and pollinator sanctuary

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Speaker 1: just gone in a blink. What if we could reverse

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Speaker 1: that trend, What if we could slow down what if

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Speaker 1: we get some of that good stuff back out there,

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Speaker 1: wouldn't that be something? Well, that's what we're gonna explore today.

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Speaker 1: So if you want to learn to hunt grassy habitat

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Speaker 1: for deer, tune in. And if you want to learn

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Speaker 1: how to save these places to stick around. So here

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Speaker 1: we go. All right, So I'm here now with Tony Peterson.

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Speaker 1: You might know him, and uh, I do need to

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Speaker 1: I do need to bring one thing up before we

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Speaker 1: getting the meat and potatoes here, because we actually have

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Speaker 1: not done a podcast what we have. We haven't talked

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Speaker 1: about this together since the fall and summer, where you've

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Speaker 1: been occasionally stepping in for me and covering me on

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Speaker 1: the main Wired Hunt show, and every week you kind

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Speaker 1: of introduced what's going on. And every week I get

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Speaker 1: messages from listeners saying, hey, how was the hop Scotch tournament?

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Speaker 1: Oh hey, how was the Miley Cyrus concert? Oh hey?

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Speaker 1: How was Pokemon tournament? Tony, when I said you could

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Speaker 1: be part of this podcast, you swore never to tell

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Speaker 1: people what I did in my spare time. I didn't.

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Speaker 1: I forgot. I just I used to drink a lot.

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Speaker 1: I have a bad memory. And the way you're so

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Speaker 1: excited about this off, I figure you want the world

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Speaker 1: to know. Yeah, well I gotta ga Hey listen, I'm

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Speaker 1: not going to throw Spencer under the bus here, but

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Speaker 1: that Miley Cyrus concert you did with him wasn't that

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Speaker 1: far off. How he spent his vacation recently. Let's be honest, now,

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Speaker 1: he did, and this is no joke, just spend his

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Speaker 1: valuable vacation time going to see Billie Eilish and Elton

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Speaker 1: Johnny concert And that wasn't like a single thing. That

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Speaker 1: was two different concerts. He paid tickets for it to

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Speaker 1: go do that at the garden, right, Yeah? And then

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Speaker 1: art museums. Yeah. I would have to say that the

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Speaker 1: most enjoyable part of my job is when I know

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Speaker 1: that I have to figure out what you were doing

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Speaker 1: where you couldn't be here hosting the super important podcast

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Speaker 1: that you have. No, I haven't listened to every one

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Speaker 1: of the episodes that you did while I was gone,

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Speaker 1: So who knows what you've said, and probably not every

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Speaker 1: single one people have emailed me about. Does any one

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Speaker 1: of the things that you made up stand out as

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Speaker 1: your favorite that you laughed the hardest at when you

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Speaker 1: came up with it? If you have a favorite thing

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Speaker 1: that you envisioned me doing in your imagination. The problem

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Speaker 1: is is I always hold it up to what you

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Speaker 1: actually did do, which was have a yo yo. Okay,

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Speaker 1: well that was that was in fourth grade. Yeah, no, no, no,

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Speaker 1: I get it. I know it was a long time ago.

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Speaker 1: But I don't know if I can find anything out

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Speaker 1: there that's like that fits into this category as much

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Speaker 1: as that does. So you actually unintentionally set the bar

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Speaker 1: when you were like ten that I don't know if

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Speaker 1: I'll ever be able to clear it. Well, I'm glad

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Speaker 1: that you're still shooting to reach the heights that I

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Speaker 1: once claimed. Look, I'm I'm gonna achieve your buddy. Well,

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Speaker 1: something's just mean a lot to me. I'm glad that

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Speaker 1: you're shooting for sky high goals. Uh, what I actually

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Speaker 1: want to talk to you about not only ways to

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Speaker 1: humiliate me, but but I want to talk about a place,

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Speaker 1: a habitat in a style of hunting that you and

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Speaker 1: I both really love. And we're talking about this over dinner.

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Speaker 1: We're eating cheeseburgers. I had a beer, you had a

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Speaker 1: diet coke, And I said to you, and I don't

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Speaker 1: think this is the beer talking. I said to you

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Speaker 1: that I would give up the Midwest to hunt in

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Speaker 1: the plains. That's how much I like hunting grassland, plains habitat.

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Speaker 1: What's your take on that, Well, my take is that

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Speaker 1: I understand that sentiment. I would have a hell of

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Speaker 1: a time given up the deciduous forests of the Midwest

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Speaker 1: that I really really like. And you know, we're sitting

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Speaker 1: here looking out on the Mississippi River and the bluffs here,

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Speaker 1: and this this area is just so special to me.

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Speaker 1: But I understand, like it's it's a close second for

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Speaker 1: me the grasslands. And you know, not only for deer.

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Speaker 1: It's so fun with deer, right, Like, they're so visible.

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Speaker 1: And the states that have a lot of grassland left,

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Speaker 1: they give you a lot of land a roam on

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Speaker 1: a lot of times, and I think that's amazing. But

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Speaker 1: I just love them for so much more than the

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Speaker 1: deer aspect, you know. I mean, that's this that's where

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Speaker 1: I spend my bird hunting time. I was just, you know,

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Speaker 1: just a little bit ago before Minnesota small game season

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Speaker 1: wrapped up, I was pushing little brush patches on public land,

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Speaker 1: mostly around grassland and c RP, trying to shoot some

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Speaker 1: rabbits and watching pheasants fly out and deer run out,

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Speaker 1: and I just I think that environment that habitat is

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Speaker 1: so amazing. So what is it? So? Uh? If I

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Speaker 1: had to, if I had to choose why I or

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Speaker 1: if I had to explain why I like this kind

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Speaker 1: of stuff, I'd have a hard time pinpointing just what

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Speaker 1: it is. Because when I'm when I think about grassland

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Speaker 1: or open type habitat, you know, it can come in

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Speaker 1: a lot of different forms. It can be big vast

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Speaker 1: grasslands out west, but it can also be a fifty

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Speaker 1: acre or twenty acre CRP field in Michigan or Ohio

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Speaker 1: or somewhere like that. But across all of those, I

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Speaker 1: think you get two things. You get one. It can

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Speaker 1: be some level vista, like the wide open space, the view,

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Speaker 1: whether it's ten acres or a hundred miles, you get

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Speaker 1: this this scene that somehow I think, and I might

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Speaker 1: be way off my rocket here, but I think there's

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Speaker 1: something like deep in us having been evolved from a

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Speaker 1: species that grew up in like Savannah's millennia go, there's

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Speaker 1: something about that wine open space that connects with us,

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Speaker 1: like we like to be able to see over the

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Speaker 1: next hill and see this vast landscape. That's something that

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Speaker 1: just the place itself just does it for me. And

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Speaker 1: then second, when you see animals, deer in particular moving

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Speaker 1: through grass, whether it's CRP or native grasses out in

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Speaker 1: Kansas and Nebraska or whatever, just moving through that stuff

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Speaker 1: and you see there their back line going across, or

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Speaker 1: you see their antlers nears pocon outa something, or if

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Speaker 1: you're in a CRP field in Iowa and it's so

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Speaker 1: tall you can't see anything but the glimmer of an

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Speaker 1: antler that turns and all of like hole crap, that's

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Speaker 1: a time and then a buck steps out out of there.

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Speaker 1: That is just cool. These are not only cool, but

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Speaker 1: they're like rich with wildlife landscapes too. I mean, these

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Speaker 1: are places where I've hunted to have grasslands. I see

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Speaker 1: more deer than almost anywhere sometimes. Um so a lot

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Speaker 1: of deer. Cool place, great views, very huntable because of

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Speaker 1: the views. I mean, when you think about these places,

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Speaker 1: what do you like about them? Oh man? I mean

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Speaker 1: I totally agree with you on the just the you know,

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Speaker 1: I think when you come from the places we come from,

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Speaker 1: you you don't even recognize your own claustrophobia, and you know,

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Speaker 1: you go, I love the challenge of the big woods, right,

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Speaker 1: But the hardest part is you know you're not gonna

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Speaker 1: see very many deer. Like, if you do see one,

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Speaker 1: it might be a killable situation, but it's not like

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Speaker 1: you have a very very high probability of just going

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Speaker 1: out working your butt off and blanking. And when you

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Speaker 1: get out there where you've got, you know, the ability

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Speaker 1: to see, you're like, it's like antelope hunting, Like it's

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Speaker 1: just fun because you know you're gonna be in the game.

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Speaker 1: At least you're gonna see something. You're not gonna blank

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Speaker 1: out in the grasslands. And I think that there is

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Speaker 1: something too that of just being able to look and go.

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Speaker 1: You know, there's so many places national grasslands and big

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Speaker 1: chunks of public land where you step out of that

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Speaker 1: truck and you can walk for miles and so not

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Speaker 1: only can you see them, but if you do see

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Speaker 1: them two miles away and they're just a little dot

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Speaker 1: on the horizon, they're still in play. And you know

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Speaker 1: how it is when you when you live in a

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Speaker 1: state like Michigan or Minnesota where you're dealing with forty

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Speaker 1: acre properties thirty acre properties. It's like, man, you know,

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Speaker 1: you got a couple hundred yards by a couple hundred

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Speaker 1: yards to work with. It's just a different thing. But

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Speaker 1: I just I love I love that it shows us

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Speaker 1: just how many animals use that kind of habitat and

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Speaker 1: when you get in there how different it is. Then

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Speaker 1: you kind of think, like when you think about it

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Speaker 1: in your head, you're like, Okay, I'm gonna go to

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Speaker 1: Kansas or you know, one of those flyover states and

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Speaker 1: it's gonna be full of awesome grasslands to hunt. But

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Speaker 1: it's like you know, when you're sitting at home, it's

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Speaker 1: just flat. It's kind of feature list. There's no trees,

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Speaker 1: there's no rivers, Like you just like you fill in

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Speaker 1: the blanks with like the worst case scenario. Then you

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Speaker 1: go out there and you're like, man, this this topography

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Speaker 1: is actually rolling, and there's a strainage here, and there's

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Speaker 1: a little patch of cotton woods down there by the river,

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Speaker 1: and it's just a cool freaking place to be. It's

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Speaker 1: amazing what it sucks up. Like you when you look

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Speaker 1: at it from the road, even like you said, it

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Speaker 1: might almost look sterile, but you get into it and

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Speaker 1: there's a whole lot of life in there and deer well,

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know, and we we talk about this.

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Speaker 1: This is why Kansas partially is such a destination state, right,

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Speaker 1: Like it's a big buck state anyway, people are gonna

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Speaker 1: go there. But you can find those situations to some

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Speaker 1: extent in Oklahoma in some of these other states that

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Speaker 1: wouldn't be quite as a destination. And then I think

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Speaker 1: you mentioned this earlier in in some places in the

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Speaker 1: Midwest and the East, you can find just a CRP field.

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Speaker 1: It's like a mini version of this stuff, but it

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Speaker 1: still brings that kind of habitat. And you know, I

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Speaker 1: don't I don't know if this is right or not.

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Speaker 1: But like when you talk about, you know, use I

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Speaker 1: c RP for example, you know, like I'm always keen

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Speaker 1: on that if I'm if I'm hunting the land down there,

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Speaker 1: because it's dude, whenever you and I apologize it for jumping,

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Speaker 1: but I was just gonna say, any time I'm in

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Speaker 1: the Midwest that's generally more timbred and regular agriculture, if

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Speaker 1: I have access to a place that has that grassland habitat,

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Speaker 1: whether it's in serp or just natural I gravitate towards that,

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Speaker 1: don't You always gravitate towards you know why. I think

246
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Speaker 1: this is why. So if you think about you know,

247
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Speaker 1: like if you if you go somewhere and there's a

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Speaker 1: soybean field on public land, like there's an outside chance

249
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Speaker 1: in an early season, they're betting right in there, right,

250
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Speaker 1: not real high odd, it's like it's it's okay, like

251
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Speaker 1: there might be deer that start in there, but that's

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Speaker 1: the destination, and everybody figures that out. But there's something

253
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Speaker 1: different about sitting up over a big block of CRP

254
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Speaker 1: because you get up into that tree and you're like,

255
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Speaker 1: they could be in there now, they could be coming

256
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Speaker 1: out to there at some point. They're gonna just they're

257
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Speaker 1: gonna use this in so many different ways. It's not

258
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Speaker 1: just betting. You know, you'll see them browsed through there.

259
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Speaker 1: I mean, I'll never forget. I think it was the

260
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Speaker 1: first time I ever hunted South Dakota for white tails,

261
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Speaker 1: and I was just glassing in the hills and they

262
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Speaker 1: had different prairies and stuff. I was close to the river,

263
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Speaker 1: so I had some wooded bottoms and stuff, but I

264
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Speaker 1: was still in like the transition to grassland. And where

265
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Speaker 1: I was looking for deer was in the trees, you know,

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Speaker 1: like where you just like, okay, I know, dear like

267
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Speaker 1: this stuff. And I kept seeing these deer in these

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Speaker 1: places where I'm like, why are they there? Looks like

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Speaker 1: that deer's browsing away in just grassland, but I know

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Speaker 1: they're not even that yellow grass. And I remember walking

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Speaker 1: over there like the next morning and looking at it

272
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Speaker 1: and there was this little tiny clover sprouting under there,

273
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Speaker 1: and that's what they were eating. And you're just like,

274
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Speaker 1: you know, I would have never ever known that, like

275
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Speaker 1: that would have never occurred to me to be a

276
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Speaker 1: pattern I could play off of. And then you start

277
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Speaker 1: digging in, You're like, there's so much going on here.

278
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Speaker 1: It looks kind of mono landscape, and it's just different

279
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Speaker 1: when we see the same thing. Like if you want to,

280
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Speaker 1: if you want to realize the value of grasslands, get

281
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Speaker 1: a bird dog, and you just realize, like, not only

282
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Speaker 1: are the birds out there, but how many how many

283
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Speaker 1: other critters you jump, how many deer that you see

284
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Speaker 1: in places where you're like there's just no way, like

285
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Speaker 1: there's no way they're going to be here. And then

286
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Speaker 1: you know how it is when you're following a bird

287
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Speaker 1: dog along and you just sort of like they're doing

288
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Speaker 1: their thing and you're kind of working the wind or whatever.

289
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Speaker 1: But a lot of times you just end up on

290
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Speaker 1: a deer trail like you just easier walk in. You're like,

291
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Speaker 1: let's let the dogs do the hard work. And then

292
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Speaker 1: all of a sudden you realize, like this this deer

293
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Speaker 1: trail is like winding its way through here, and these

294
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Speaker 1: deer using this terrain just like they would bluffy country,

295
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Speaker 1: but it's on such a different scale, and I think

296
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Speaker 1: that's so freaking cool. I feel like you've told me

297
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Speaker 1: a lot of stories where you've been bird hunting in

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Speaker 1: grasslands and blood a bunch of big bucks, and like, oh,

299
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Speaker 1: I need to try to hunt deer hunt this some day, dude.

300
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Speaker 1: It's kind of common thing, isn't it. It's well, it's

301
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Speaker 1: so common for me that I just spent a weekend

302
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Speaker 1: hunting rabbits and scouting deer on public land in a

303
00:15:46,560 --> 00:15:48,880
Speaker 1: place that I never in a million years thought I

304
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Speaker 1: would go. But just seeing what I see pheasant hunting,

305
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Speaker 1: I'm like, I gotta I gotta see if I can

306
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Speaker 1: kill a big public land buck down here. And it's

307
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Speaker 1: it's just grass. So Okay, when I say grassland or

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Speaker 1: grassy or prairie or any kind of habitat like that,

309
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Speaker 1: where could we find that. I'm I'm gonna start with

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Speaker 1: the list. Second, think of here and you jump in.

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Speaker 1: I'm thinking parts of Minnesota. I'm thinking parts of Iowa.

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Speaker 1: I'm thinking both the Dakotas, Nebraska, Kansas, Oklahoma, uh, eastern Montana,

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Speaker 1: eastern Colorado, eastern Wyoming. I think you could find it

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Speaker 1: in the northern part of Texas. Um. I you know

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Speaker 1: this is this is probably a stretch, but I've even

316
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Speaker 1: turkey hunted places in northern Missouri where like some of

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00:16:35,360 --> 00:16:38,480
Speaker 1: the hilltops and stuff are like many little biospheres of

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Speaker 1: grassland as well. Yeah, you know, I mean where you

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Speaker 1: get the you know, the oaks in the bottoms or whatever.

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Speaker 1: It's a it's a mixed terrain, and that's a whole

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Speaker 1: lot of white tail country that that's this kind of stuff.

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Speaker 1: And then all the different grasslands that are still around

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Speaker 1: in little pockets and remnants throughout the Midwest where they're

324
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Speaker 1: there used to be all across that Iowa, Illinois, Indiana,

325
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Speaker 1: tons of grasslands used to be at the short Grass period,

326
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Speaker 1: I think is what it used to be where there's

327
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Speaker 1: still little remnants. I mean. One of the coolest things

328
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Speaker 1: that came out of my Back forty project was when

329
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Speaker 1: we brought this plant ecologist out to the property out

330
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Speaker 1: there in southern Michigan. We went walking around and we

331
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Speaker 1: came across this ridge side that had a whole lot

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Speaker 1: of different grasses in there and forbes and stuff, and

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Speaker 1: that guy the college just does with it was like

334
00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:24,840
Speaker 1: shocked at what he saw. He's like, hey, this is

335
00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:28,200
Speaker 1: a remnant native prairie that used to be here hundreds

336
00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:30,919
Speaker 1: and hundreds of years ago, that's been wiped out across

337
00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:33,639
Speaker 1: the state and across much of the Midwest, like we've

338
00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:36,320
Speaker 1: paved it all over. We don't have this stuff almost anywhere.

339
00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:37,919
Speaker 1: This is like a rare of thing. It might be

340
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Speaker 1: the only place in the county that we still have this.

341
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Speaker 1: We have this little pocket of grassland. Such a cool

342
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Speaker 1: thing to see, and funny enough, we tried to improve it.

343
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Speaker 1: We tried to open up some space for it, and

344
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Speaker 1: sure enough, that's where both the bucks I killed on

345
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Speaker 1: the Back forty came out of. So not only is

346
00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:58,560
Speaker 1: it native, not only is it pretty dark cool, but hey,

347
00:17:58,600 --> 00:18:01,040
Speaker 1: it's also where a lot of these deer like on time. Well,

348
00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:03,600
Speaker 1: and you know we I know this is where to hunts.

349
00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:05,919
Speaker 1: So we talk about white tails. But man, you go

350
00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:08,360
Speaker 1: hunt an open a lot of places. You go hunt

351
00:18:08,359 --> 00:18:10,840
Speaker 1: meal deer in a lot of places. Um, I hunted

352
00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:13,960
Speaker 1: blacktails in southern California one time, and we were hunting

353
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Speaker 1: in some grassland there. You know, I mean this is

354
00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:20,560
Speaker 1: there are a lot of species that I love this stuff, alright,

355
00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:30,280
Speaker 1: So most memorable grassland type habitat dear story, when I

356
00:18:30,320 --> 00:18:32,280
Speaker 1: say that's the first thing that comes to mind for

357
00:18:32,359 --> 00:18:34,199
Speaker 1: you over all your years hunting this stuff, and you've

358
00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:36,160
Speaker 1: been hunting that kind of stuff for a long time,

359
00:18:36,440 --> 00:18:40,359
Speaker 1: probably for instance, before I was born. Right, Man, that

360
00:18:40,440 --> 00:18:42,840
Speaker 1: was a joke. But you just want with that. I'm

361
00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:44,600
Speaker 1: trying to ignore you because Mark has been making fun

362
00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:46,159
Speaker 1: of me for my age the whole time. Even though

363
00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:48,720
Speaker 1: he's only seven years younger than me. You just look

364
00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:51,000
Speaker 1: thirty four years older than because I have ten year

365
00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:54,120
Speaker 1: old twins. Just wait, just wait, bro, you got those

366
00:18:54,119 --> 00:18:56,080
Speaker 1: two little boys at home. This ship is coming for

367
00:18:56,200 --> 00:18:59,439
Speaker 1: you too. Man. Anyways, graha's what you're saying. And plus

368
00:18:59,440 --> 00:19:01,400
Speaker 1: I've hunted a lot harder than you. So it's been

369
00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:04,679
Speaker 1: a lot more stressful on me when you when you

370
00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:05,960
Speaker 1: go out there and you work your ass off on

371
00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:08,480
Speaker 1: public land, you get some gray hair. I'm not just

372
00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:12,560
Speaker 1: doing the cushy hunts that you're doing. So anyways, back

373
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Speaker 1: in two thousand seven, so can I tell you, I'm

374
00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:21,480
Speaker 1: not having like a bucket killed come to mine right away?

375
00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:26,440
Speaker 1: But I have this memory. So growing up in southeastern Minnesota,

376
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Speaker 1: like I did, we had I kind of hit sort

377
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Speaker 1: of the tail end of the pheasant days down there,

378
00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:34,240
Speaker 1: which means I hit the tail end of the CRP

379
00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:36,080
Speaker 1: in a lot of places. So when I could start

380
00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:38,720
Speaker 1: hunting when I was twelve, you know, for a while,

381
00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:40,359
Speaker 1: we had some pheasants to work with, we had some

382
00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:42,240
Speaker 1: deer weed hunt in CRP, and then everything went under

383
00:19:42,280 --> 00:19:44,119
Speaker 1: the plot and it kind of went away. But I

384
00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:47,440
Speaker 1: remember we we had places, like we had private places

385
00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:48,800
Speaker 1: to hunt, but we also just went and hunt in

386
00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:50,719
Speaker 1: public land. It's like we kind of just like, what

387
00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:52,320
Speaker 1: do we want to do tonight? My dad? Now, you know,

388
00:19:52,359 --> 00:19:55,199
Speaker 1: like we weren't, you know, we were hunting anything, So

389
00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:57,400
Speaker 1: we we didn't care. It wasn't like we were trophy hunting.

390
00:19:57,359 --> 00:19:58,919
Speaker 1: It was like, we'll have fun if we go down

391
00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:00,840
Speaker 1: here to Lanesborough and have this public left on if

392
00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:04,000
Speaker 1: we go to this private place. And I remember he

393
00:20:04,119 --> 00:20:07,520
Speaker 1: dropped me off and I was probably like fourteen fifteen

394
00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:11,320
Speaker 1: at the time. I couldn't drive yet, and I was

395
00:20:11,359 --> 00:20:14,280
Speaker 1: in the CRP field and just like no clue what

396
00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:16,520
Speaker 1: to do. And I remember just sneaking along Asia still

397
00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:19,639
Speaker 1: hunt a lot, and I saw this deer and it

398
00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:22,720
Speaker 1: was like, oh, like I never see like this is amazing.

399
00:20:23,040 --> 00:20:25,200
Speaker 1: And so I got down in that grass and started

400
00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:27,480
Speaker 1: crawling closer and closer, and it was a dough and

401
00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:30,400
Speaker 1: I remember just like being so scared to peek up,

402
00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:32,320
Speaker 1: and I'm like, I'm just gonna get close, because you know,

403
00:20:32,480 --> 00:20:34,280
Speaker 1: back then, it was like we were shooting compounds, but

404
00:20:34,320 --> 00:20:37,399
Speaker 1: we were shooting like one pin like fingers, you know,

405
00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:39,399
Speaker 1: like the peep site that a little pinhole through it,

406
00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:43,720
Speaker 1: like painting your your pins kind of thing. And so

407
00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:46,320
Speaker 1: we were like twenty yards and under a kind of deal.

408
00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:48,359
Speaker 1: And I remember when I finally got to where I

409
00:20:48,359 --> 00:20:50,199
Speaker 1: was like, she's got to be right here, and I

410
00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:52,240
Speaker 1: just like peeked up and she was on the trail.

411
00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:55,960
Speaker 1: I was on like ten yards away facing me, and

412
00:20:56,040 --> 00:20:57,440
Speaker 1: you know, I wasn't I was going to take a

413
00:20:57,480 --> 00:21:00,760
Speaker 1: frontal shot, and I just remember like, oh my god,

414
00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:03,800
Speaker 1: like they're never this close to me, like this little

415
00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:06,439
Speaker 1: situation here in this grass and at the time I

416
00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:08,159
Speaker 1: didn't recognize it, like I just knew like deer, some

417
00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:10,880
Speaker 1: deer like c RP. But I've never forgot that because

418
00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:12,640
Speaker 1: that was like one of the first encounters I had,

419
00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:15,719
Speaker 1: like on the ground close where I didn't kill her.

420
00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:17,560
Speaker 1: She busted me and she ran away, but it was

421
00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:22,080
Speaker 1: like you you can actually get that close to them,

422
00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:24,000
Speaker 1: not sitting in a tree stand, which I hated because

423
00:21:24,040 --> 00:21:26,440
Speaker 1: I was so impatient, but just to actually go out

424
00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:27,800
Speaker 1: and do it, and it was just because she was

425
00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:29,760
Speaker 1: in the c RP not paying attention and I had

426
00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:32,040
Speaker 1: the right wind in the right conditions, and that I

427
00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:34,000
Speaker 1: think about that all the time, and you know, that

428
00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:35,879
Speaker 1: was one that got away and it was just a dope.

429
00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:44,359
Speaker 1: There's there's so many different hunts. Even in the short

430
00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:47,240
Speaker 1: time I think I hunted out in the grassland type

431
00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:51,879
Speaker 1: half for the first time and deer hunted in it.

432
00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:55,320
Speaker 1: And probably two thousand, twelve or thirteen, so it's been

433
00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:58,040
Speaker 1: less than ten years but just in that time period,

434
00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:03,000
Speaker 1: I mean, any of my favorite hunts, not just because

435
00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:04,800
Speaker 1: of the deer activity, both some for the deer act,

436
00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:07,960
Speaker 1: but also just for the like the ancillary stuff, like

437
00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:10,640
Speaker 1: the stuff around it. You know. Like I remember one

438
00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:12,679
Speaker 1: time hunting in the state out there, and I was hunting.

439
00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:17,000
Speaker 1: There was a mixture of like river bottom and grasslands

440
00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:19,480
Speaker 1: and kind of bluffs and then down in the bottoms.

441
00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:22,400
Speaker 1: And I remember I was camped out up on these

442
00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:25,760
Speaker 1: bluffs like big rolling grasses, and then down beneath me

443
00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:27,920
Speaker 1: was the river bottom where there was a few turees

444
00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:30,560
Speaker 1: and some grasses and stuff like that. And I hunted

445
00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:35,000
Speaker 1: that morning, no sorry, I glassed the morning, mid day,

446
00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:38,440
Speaker 1: went down to the bottom hunting this kind of grassy bottom,

447
00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:40,720
Speaker 1: passed on a really nice buck I shouldn't have passed on.

448
00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:43,680
Speaker 1: This was the first day across the river. Came back

449
00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:45,520
Speaker 1: up this after dark, going back up, and I just

450
00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:48,320
Speaker 1: remember climbing the bluff, getting up to my truck which

451
00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:51,719
Speaker 1: was parked on this grassy hill. There's nobody else around

452
00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:56,280
Speaker 1: for miles. It's dark except for just the brilliant stars.

453
00:22:56,880 --> 00:22:59,960
Speaker 1: And I was sitting there at the truck pop the

454
00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:02,879
Speaker 1: tailgate put on the little backpacker stove and all you

455
00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:08,159
Speaker 1: could hear was just the of that little stove burner.

456
00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:13,600
Speaker 1: And I remember just looking up hearing that sound and

457
00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:18,199
Speaker 1: just thinking this is this is it? Like this is

458
00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:20,200
Speaker 1: what it's all about. I mean, I got to watch

459
00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:21,679
Speaker 1: a bunch of deer day. I got to sit and

460
00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:23,320
Speaker 1: just watch a bunch of deer this morning. Then I

461
00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:25,439
Speaker 1: got to go see deer and have close calls up

462
00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:28,080
Speaker 1: close like fun deer hunt in the afternoon. And then

463
00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:31,359
Speaker 1: I got to sit here in this wide open landscape

464
00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:33,800
Speaker 1: and there's not a sound except for the burner of

465
00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:36,200
Speaker 1: my little stove while I heat up a backpacker meal.

466
00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:38,359
Speaker 1: And I know tomorrow I can go back and do

467
00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:41,560
Speaker 1: it all over again, Like this is living let alone,

468
00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:44,480
Speaker 1: good deer hunting, this is the whole thing. And I've

469
00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:47,080
Speaker 1: just got a lot of experiences like that that that

470
00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:50,160
Speaker 1: keep on bringing me wanting to go out to those places.

471
00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:52,080
Speaker 1: And and again, like I said, it's I like to

472
00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:55,840
Speaker 1: go to those places where that's the majority of the habitat.

473
00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:58,600
Speaker 1: But then also like when I wanted hunt hunted Iowa

474
00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:01,000
Speaker 1: this past year, and I not scouting and looking for

475
00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:05,160
Speaker 1: different locations multiple different times, I was gravitating towards where

476
00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:07,560
Speaker 1: there was that CRP and loan behold that the very

477
00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:10,040
Speaker 1: first morning of my first hunt in Iowa this year,

478
00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:12,840
Speaker 1: really nice buck came stepping out of that c RP.

479
00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:15,680
Speaker 1: Could have shot him. Other really nice buck came down

480
00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:17,480
Speaker 1: along the side of the c RP. To of my

481
00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:19,919
Speaker 1: best shot opportunities of the whole week came out of

482
00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:23,560
Speaker 1: that kind of stuff. Man. So it's it's valuable, not

483
00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:26,240
Speaker 1: just for its aesthetics. It is and it I think

484
00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:28,840
Speaker 1: when you talk about that and your your you know,

485
00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:31,120
Speaker 1: recent Iowa hunt and some of your hunts before that,

486
00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:34,320
Speaker 1: there is a there is a connection to big bucks

487
00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:37,560
Speaker 1: and grass like because when you say that, it reminds

488
00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:41,000
Speaker 1: me when you know, when I drew Iowa and like,

489
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:43,560
Speaker 1: I found three concentrations of bucks down there on that

490
00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:46,280
Speaker 1: public and every one of them was in proximity to

491
00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:49,840
Speaker 1: c RP. I mean the one spot, well, the two

492
00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:53,240
Speaker 1: spots that were really good, I was right on CRP.

493
00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:54,800
Speaker 1: So I might have been you know, I was doing

494
00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:57,119
Speaker 1: something else, like maybe hunting a river crossing or something,

495
00:24:57,160 --> 00:24:58,879
Speaker 1: but it was like, you know, you got the crossing

496
00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:00,320
Speaker 1: on one side, you got the CRP on the other.

497
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:03,800
Speaker 1: So important. Okay, So let's talk a little bit of

498
00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:06,080
Speaker 1: strategy here if we're going to hunt any kind of

499
00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:08,600
Speaker 1: grassy type habitamp, and I guess I'll break it up

500
00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:11,440
Speaker 1: into two. I'm curious about a what are some things

501
00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:14,560
Speaker 1: you've learned about hunting in and around CRP in a

502
00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:18,440
Speaker 1: more traditional agricultural Midwest setting. Let's just tackle that first

503
00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:21,320
Speaker 1: before I got to part two. So part one, what

504
00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:23,840
Speaker 1: are some best practices you've learned about, how you utilize

505
00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:26,919
Speaker 1: c RP, how that factors in your strategy, how and

506
00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:30,680
Speaker 1: why you had ever set up around it? Man, I think,

507
00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:33,919
Speaker 1: I think the thing that's so valuable. I've been really

508
00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:36,359
Speaker 1: talking about this a lot, righting about this a lot lately,

509
00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:38,960
Speaker 1: But I'm trying. I'm trying to look at these hunting

510
00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:42,160
Speaker 1: scenarios and it's like so easy to default to the negatives,

511
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:45,000
Speaker 1: like what's working against me? The hunting pressure is too high,

512
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:46,680
Speaker 1: there's no big bucks in my state, blah blah blah.

513
00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:48,400
Speaker 1: Like we always kind of like it's like human nature

514
00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:50,840
Speaker 1: to go negative. But I'm trying to look like, what

515
00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:53,400
Speaker 1: what works for you there? Like what what advantage does

516
00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:56,359
Speaker 1: this specific habitat give you? And man, you know, like

517
00:25:56,359 --> 00:25:59,520
Speaker 1: when we talked about the bigwood stuff earlier. Part of

518
00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:02,040
Speaker 1: the reason that so hard is because you know it's

519
00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:04,400
Speaker 1: lower dear density, you don't you don't see as many

520
00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:06,440
Speaker 1: so you're just like operating off a sign and you're

521
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:08,879
Speaker 1: inferring a bunch of stuff, but you don't get a

522
00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:11,480
Speaker 1: lot of lessons in real time from real deer. Like

523
00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:14,320
Speaker 1: that's a that's a gift you can go in. I mean,

524
00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:15,720
Speaker 1: I think one of the reasons that the state like

525
00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:18,439
Speaker 1: Iowa is pretty easy to hunt compared to a lot

526
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:20,639
Speaker 1: of states is because you have a good mix of

527
00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:23,160
Speaker 1: that stuff where if you go in you don't really

528
00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:25,480
Speaker 1: know what you're doing, you can set up and observe

529
00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:27,120
Speaker 1: still have a hell of a chance to kill when

530
00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:29,320
Speaker 1: walking down the edge of the field or the crp

531
00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:32,560
Speaker 1: or whatever. But you can see them and go, Okay,

532
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:34,320
Speaker 1: this is what he did today. He got up out

533
00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:35,800
Speaker 1: of that patch of brush in the middle of any

534
00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:38,199
Speaker 1: walk down there through that ditch or whatever, or he

535
00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:41,240
Speaker 1: came back in this morning, and you can you can

536
00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:43,399
Speaker 1: run that pattern. I mean that that's why when you

537
00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:46,320
Speaker 1: talk about like a Kansas hunter and Nebraska hunt. Part

538
00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:48,720
Speaker 1: of the reason that's so freaking fun is you are

539
00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:51,000
Speaker 1: in the game when you can see them and they're

540
00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:52,920
Speaker 1: going to tell you, like, this is what I did today.

541
00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:55,359
Speaker 1: I might not do it tomorrow, but I might. That's

542
00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:59,680
Speaker 1: such a gift, man. So I treat I treat those situations,

543
00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:01,800
Speaker 1: you know, like obviously they're going to leave a bunch

544
00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:04,320
Speaker 1: of sign and rubs around there, or you'll find beds,

545
00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:06,200
Speaker 1: or you can walk through there and jump them or whatever.

546
00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:08,760
Speaker 1: Find a lot of sheds in it too. But I

547
00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:12,359
Speaker 1: treat that like the most important advantage that Grasslands and

548
00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:15,200
Speaker 1: c RP give you is a visibility. Like you get

549
00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:16,840
Speaker 1: a lot of lessons on what do you like to

550
00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:19,120
Speaker 1: do just by sitting back and going, Okay, show me,

551
00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:21,800
Speaker 1: and they're gonna show you. That's the beautiful part. The

552
00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:24,800
Speaker 1: funny thing is is they show you right. Typically, if

553
00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:27,320
Speaker 1: you're elevated, you can see in there, so it's visible

554
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:31,160
Speaker 1: to you, but from their perspective, they feel completely concealed.

555
00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:34,040
Speaker 1: So it's like this best of both worlds where they

556
00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:36,960
Speaker 1: feel safe, but you can see there's no other habitat

557
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:39,680
Speaker 1: like that anywhere really where we can get an advantage

558
00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:41,760
Speaker 1: while they think they have the advantage. Yeah, I mean,

559
00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:43,639
Speaker 1: I would say some of the western white tails and

560
00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:46,760
Speaker 1: some sage flats and stuff. You get a similar situation,

561
00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:50,320
Speaker 1: but it's not like reproducible across you know, like you

562
00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:52,800
Speaker 1: if you find the right situation, you can But that's

563
00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:56,760
Speaker 1: a consistent thing in grassland and CRP. So when you

564
00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:59,880
Speaker 1: find a CRP field of some size, do you tip

565
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:04,440
Speaker 1: really look at that as okay? Well, let me When

566
00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:08,000
Speaker 1: I walk across the landscape, I usually am looking at

567
00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:10,320
Speaker 1: stuff and then lumping it into some kind of category

568
00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:13,359
Speaker 1: kind of categorizes as something. Is this a travel corridor?

569
00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:15,359
Speaker 1: Is this a food source? This is a betting area,

570
00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:16,960
Speaker 1: so that I can start to make sense of the

571
00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:19,440
Speaker 1: bigger thing. When you see a CRP field, does that

572
00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:22,000
Speaker 1: automatically go into this is probably a betting area pile

573
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:23,960
Speaker 1: or how do you think of it? What pile does

574
00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:27,640
Speaker 1: that go into? For you? Um, it's usually starts that way.

575
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:31,040
Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's the easiest default mode, right, But

576
00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:33,879
Speaker 1: depending on what kind of grass it is, depending on

577
00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:36,399
Speaker 1: what kind of CRP it is, you know, how old

578
00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:38,560
Speaker 1: it is, how many years it's been planted, you know,

579
00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:40,960
Speaker 1: I mean, if you get some shrubs and stuff in there,

580
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:43,160
Speaker 1: now you're dealing with some staging area stuff. A lot

581
00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:44,880
Speaker 1: of times if it's over their head and it's got

582
00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:47,240
Speaker 1: something they can rub on, yeah, they might bet on

583
00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:48,920
Speaker 1: one end and walk their way through. But you might

584
00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:52,040
Speaker 1: get a staging area situation. And you know, for me,

585
00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:56,040
Speaker 1: it's just I use it. It's just like an anchor point,

586
00:28:56,600 --> 00:28:58,520
Speaker 1: right like you you know that you're going to use

587
00:28:58,520 --> 00:28:59,719
Speaker 1: it for a lot of different things. They might be

588
00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:02,480
Speaker 1: betting in there, they probably are. They might be staged

589
00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:05,800
Speaker 1: in there. They might be you know, using an edge

590
00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:08,720
Speaker 1: and a hard edge along there to travel there. There's

591
00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:11,200
Speaker 1: gonna be a lot of things probably going on, and

592
00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:14,160
Speaker 1: so you have like multiple things working for you, you know.

593
00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:15,800
Speaker 1: I mean it's the same I look at that like

594
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:18,719
Speaker 1: that's just a gift for habitat the same thing is

595
00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:21,520
Speaker 1: like you know, if you have a soybean field that

596
00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:23,680
Speaker 1: butts up to a pond and you have like can

597
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:25,600
Speaker 1: you can hang in early season stand there, It's like, okay,

598
00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:28,160
Speaker 1: well you've got two really good things going on there

599
00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:30,440
Speaker 1: with a with the CRP. A lot of times, you know,

600
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:33,680
Speaker 1: because of that security cover that you're talking about, you've

601
00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:36,640
Speaker 1: got betting for sure, You've got what they think are

602
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:39,520
Speaker 1: safe travel routes. They can move. They they're probably going

603
00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:42,040
Speaker 1: to move in there in light and give you a

604
00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:44,520
Speaker 1: chance to see them. And they leave a lot of

605
00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:47,480
Speaker 1: sign wherever they have a chance to leave sign. So

606
00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:50,040
Speaker 1: there's there's a lot of advantages to it. Now, what

607
00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:52,160
Speaker 1: about if we were to head west and go to

608
00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:54,600
Speaker 1: Kansas or Oklahoma, to one of the one of these

609
00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:58,480
Speaker 1: other states where there's more traditional grassland habitat. What are

610
00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:01,520
Speaker 1: the things you're thinking about as far as advantages and

611
00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:04,720
Speaker 1: strategic implications. I guess as far as how you hunt

612
00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:06,560
Speaker 1: that stuff out there, that might be different than a

613
00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:11,800
Speaker 1: CRP CRP fielding Wisconsin. Um, I would say out there,

614
00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:14,760
Speaker 1: you know, the scale is so vastly different, but you

615
00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:19,000
Speaker 1: have more visibility typically that's nice. Um, if you have

616
00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:21,880
Speaker 1: a tree, you have a place, they're gonna walk by,

617
00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:24,200
Speaker 1: you know, like they're just like fish, they're gonna gravitate

618
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:26,760
Speaker 1: to the structure. Um. But I think I think the

619
00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:29,320
Speaker 1: big advantages of being able to see them. The downside

620
00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:31,680
Speaker 1: if they get into like knee high tall grass and

621
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:33,280
Speaker 1: you gotta go after them, is you better have a

622
00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:37,040
Speaker 1: good plan, Like you better, but they're decoyable, you know,

623
00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:40,360
Speaker 1: like there there's ways to get around it and you know.

624
00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:42,640
Speaker 1: The main thing about it is, you know we always

625
00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:44,520
Speaker 1: talk about like, all right, well, how do you kill

626
00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:45,760
Speaker 1: this buck in this way? How do you kill a

627
00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:47,880
Speaker 1: buck in that way? And the thing about you know,

628
00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:51,360
Speaker 1: like what you did in Nebraska last year for the show. Yeah,

629
00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:53,680
Speaker 1: it's it's not easy to kill a buck going out

630
00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:56,400
Speaker 1: and decoin them in the grassland. But tell me a

631
00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:58,080
Speaker 1: funner way to hunt, Like, is is there a better

632
00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:00,560
Speaker 1: way to spend your time like they're they're isn't? And

633
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:03,239
Speaker 1: so even though yeah, it might not be an easy thing,

634
00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:05,480
Speaker 1: just just sort of like spotting stock an antelope, like

635
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:07,520
Speaker 1: that's if you bow hunt them. That is not an

636
00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:09,840
Speaker 1: easy thing to do, but it's sure it's fun because

637
00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:12,560
Speaker 1: you're always in the game. Yeah, so I think it

638
00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:15,320
Speaker 1: offers up one of the most enjoyable types of habitat

639
00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:18,480
Speaker 1: to work with. Yeah. Now, one of the things that

640
00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:22,680
Speaker 1: I know you've utilized in grassland habitats. That's just something

641
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:24,400
Speaker 1: i'll throw out there. It's not really related what you're

642
00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:27,240
Speaker 1: talking about, but would you say that water factors into

643
00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:30,000
Speaker 1: your game plan even more in these grassy planes to

644
00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:34,600
Speaker 1: habitats that elsewhere or the huge, huge I always if

645
00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:37,240
Speaker 1: I'm in those that kind of situation where if you

646
00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:39,280
Speaker 1: if you think you could look across the landscape and

647
00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:41,160
Speaker 1: not see a whole lot sticking up out of the ground.

648
00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:44,560
Speaker 1: I'm always starting with water because there's gonna be some

649
00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:47,160
Speaker 1: kind of different plants there typically, I mean it depends

650
00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:49,520
Speaker 1: how that, you know, if it's pastures or whatever. But

651
00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:52,280
Speaker 1: so you might get some scrubs eaters or something, or

652
00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:55,120
Speaker 1: a windmill to tuck into or some something to work with.

653
00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:59,080
Speaker 1: But it's just a centralized point, you know. And the

654
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:01,000
Speaker 1: hard part, you know, when you asked me about like

655
00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:03,480
Speaker 1: what's my best memory in the grasslands, Like one of

656
00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:05,720
Speaker 1: the things that occurred to me after I talked about

657
00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:08,600
Speaker 1: a little bit is a buck I killed in Nebraska

658
00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:10,560
Speaker 1: one time with a muzzleloader out in the middle of

659
00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:14,120
Speaker 1: that stuff. And the whole my whole plan there was

660
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:17,600
Speaker 1: just like get on water and like check these water

661
00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:20,120
Speaker 1: holes because there's tanks all over for the cattle. So

662
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:22,480
Speaker 1: it gives you like kind of like, Okay, I gotta route.

663
00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:24,040
Speaker 1: I got a thing to do. Like I know, I

664
00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:25,440
Speaker 1: know they need the water even if they have a

665
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:27,880
Speaker 1: lot of water out here to work with. So yeah,

666
00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:30,800
Speaker 1: I mean, what can you get there? That's different that

667
00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:33,080
Speaker 1: will work to your advantage. That's a big one. Yeah. Okay,

668
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:35,680
Speaker 1: So for hunting those kinds of places, water is going

669
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:38,000
Speaker 1: to be something to pay attention to. Any kind of

670
00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:41,760
Speaker 1: structure if it's present, is something to think about. Another

671
00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:43,720
Speaker 1: general thing, if you can get to a high point

672
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:46,760
Speaker 1: and watch and observe, take advantage of that whole visibility aspect,

673
00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:48,720
Speaker 1: that's a great starting point. Get as high as it can,

674
00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:51,440
Speaker 1: or park your truck and stand on top of your

675
00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:54,120
Speaker 1: truck and watching glass. I mean, I think this is

676
00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:57,480
Speaker 1: one of those habitats where you know, observation stand or

677
00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:00,040
Speaker 1: observation sitting on your truck for a morning or the

678
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:02,840
Speaker 1: evening is very worthwhile right to see if there's anything,

679
00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:06,719
Speaker 1: Is there anything else other than those couple three things

680
00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:09,800
Speaker 1: first starting points and that kind of habitat that's worth

681
00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:11,680
Speaker 1: keeping in mind if you're heading out for your first

682
00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:15,600
Speaker 1: Oklahoma hunt or South Dakota hunt or Texas or whatever. Yeah.

683
00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:19,160
Speaker 1: So one thing that's like super important that I had

684
00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:22,560
Speaker 1: to learn. And so I went out to South Dakota

685
00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:26,560
Speaker 1: I think was hunting mule deer and hunt on the

686
00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:29,200
Speaker 1: grassland for mule deer, and you know, I went out

687
00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:31,000
Speaker 1: there knowing like this is gonna be a tough place

688
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:32,720
Speaker 1: to spot in stock, but this is where the mule

689
00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:34,520
Speaker 1: deer live, and this is just what I'm working with.

690
00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:36,840
Speaker 1: And so I was out there with my buddy Eric

691
00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:39,040
Speaker 1: and we had a really good hunt. He killed one,

692
00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:41,160
Speaker 1: I killed one, and so it was like, you know,

693
00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:43,280
Speaker 1: it's pretty good. We're halfway done. And that the other

694
00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:46,760
Speaker 1: two guys in our camp, we're from Colorado. Well one

695
00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:49,080
Speaker 1: was from Colorado, was from Wyoming, so their Western hunters.

696
00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:51,360
Speaker 1: They met us there. We live in Minnesota, so you'd

697
00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:54,880
Speaker 1: consider us like Eastern hunters, right, And in my head

698
00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:57,920
Speaker 1: I had no problem going into a mule deer hunt

699
00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:01,000
Speaker 1: that way. But after we tagged out, we stuck around

700
00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:02,680
Speaker 1: for a few days and I just hung out with

701
00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:04,720
Speaker 1: our other buddies and tried to help them get a deer.

702
00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:07,680
Speaker 1: And because they're from out west, they wanted to shoot

703
00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:10,440
Speaker 1: a white tail, and so they found a concentration of

704
00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:13,160
Speaker 1: white tails and they're telling me about it, and I

705
00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:15,479
Speaker 1: was like this, you know, I saw some white tails

706
00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:17,359
Speaker 1: out there, but like this seems weird. Like they're like, yeah,

707
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:19,000
Speaker 1: there's this creek bottom with these trees in it, and

708
00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:20,560
Speaker 1: I was like that sounds like the stuff I hunt.

709
00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:24,080
Speaker 1: And I went and glassed one day with one of

710
00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:26,960
Speaker 1: my buddies who had found this spot, and I'm looking

711
00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:30,640
Speaker 1: at it and there's like eight trees in three miles,

712
00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:33,239
Speaker 1: you know, and it's like one little drainage with like

713
00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:35,480
Speaker 1: a foot deep right in the center, you know, like

714
00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:40,280
Speaker 1: a little tiny creek. But to them coming from the west,

715
00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:43,560
Speaker 1: they're like, that's good habitat. And they were freaking deer

716
00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:46,040
Speaker 1: in there, And I would like I would have driven

717
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:48,680
Speaker 1: past that and never given it a second thought. Like

718
00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:50,040
Speaker 1: if I would have been driving down the road and

719
00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:52,680
Speaker 1: I saw run, there would have been that that's a fluke.

720
00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:55,720
Speaker 1: I'm gonna keep going. But they come from a different

721
00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:58,280
Speaker 1: place and they're going, that's good habitat. There's these gotten

722
00:34:58,280 --> 00:34:59,919
Speaker 1: woods down there. They're relating to it. There's a little

723
00:34:59,920 --> 00:35:01,879
Speaker 1: bit to dip in the train. So when you come

724
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:04,719
Speaker 1: from the Midwest or the East, and you're like, okay,

725
00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:06,960
Speaker 1: I know what I know about dear, and I know

726
00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:09,520
Speaker 1: a lot, and then you go out there and you

727
00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:11,760
Speaker 1: look at this stuff and you go, well, this this sucks.

728
00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:13,480
Speaker 1: Like a lot of people get kind of like going

729
00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:16,080
Speaker 1: into the mountains for elk, like first time, you get

730
00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:18,759
Speaker 1: this feeling of oh, man, like I'm not I'm not

731
00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:20,719
Speaker 1: in my home ground, and like I really actually don't

732
00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:22,440
Speaker 1: know what's going on, and so you kind of have

733
00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:24,840
Speaker 1: to reframe what you think about for like, good dear

734
00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:28,480
Speaker 1: cover because that stuff does not look like where a

735
00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:32,400
Speaker 1: lot of us come from. I can definitely attest to

736
00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:35,600
Speaker 1: that being a lesson that takes a while to learn,

737
00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:37,680
Speaker 1: but once you do, it does open your eyes to

738
00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:40,759
Speaker 1: a whole lot of new possibilities. I think it's you

739
00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:43,560
Speaker 1: start out with really a low confidence and then you're

740
00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:45,600
Speaker 1: just like, well, what else we gotta do? And then

741
00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:47,440
Speaker 1: all of a sudden you find your way in close

742
00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:49,160
Speaker 1: to one because you lose you use a little bit

743
00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:50,800
Speaker 1: of the train, or he's distracted by a dough and

744
00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:53,480
Speaker 1: you're like, wow, this is totally doable. But it looks

745
00:35:53,719 --> 00:35:55,960
Speaker 1: it's a vastly different environment than where we hunt deer

746
00:35:56,000 --> 00:36:00,919
Speaker 1: a lot. It is, so question, do you think that

747
00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:03,960
Speaker 1: you and I should go hunt in a grassland type

748
00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:08,520
Speaker 1: state and habitat this year together? Sure? All right, then

749
00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:11,320
Speaker 1: I think we should. I absolutely think we should go

750
00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:13,839
Speaker 1: hunt some deer somewhere. I think we should. Okay, So

751
00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:18,319
Speaker 1: here's that that's the good news. The bad news is,

752
00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:21,080
Speaker 1: and I know you already told you this, but I'm

753
00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:24,800
Speaker 1: gonna say it again because it still shocks me. We are,

754
00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:27,960
Speaker 1: according to some estimates, losing about a million acres of

755
00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:34,040
Speaker 1: this stuff every year, million acres and in the last well,

756
00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:36,520
Speaker 1: I think I think it was two thousand seven. Our

757
00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:38,600
Speaker 1: next guest will confirm this form, but I'm pretty sure

758
00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:41,920
Speaker 1: since two thousand and seven we've lost almost an area

759
00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:44,920
Speaker 1: the size of the state of Kansas of this type

760
00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:49,560
Speaker 1: of habitat getting converted to crops, plowed up, developed over,

761
00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:53,480
Speaker 1: turned into different things. We're losing this really cool deer

762
00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:59,480
Speaker 1: hunt in habitat wildlife paradise. And I'm gonna take a

763
00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:01,680
Speaker 1: leap here and put words in your mouth. But I'm

764
00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:05,640
Speaker 1: guessing you don't think that's cool. Man. I you know,

765
00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:09,600
Speaker 1: as you've pointed out, I'm so old that I'm like

766
00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:14,520
Speaker 1: I'm becoming like hyper aware of this stuff or like

767
00:37:14,719 --> 00:37:16,560
Speaker 1: focused on it. Differently. When I was younger, I didn't

768
00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:19,239
Speaker 1: really give it, like I didn't understand it, never the

769
00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:22,560
Speaker 1: gravity of why. Like when I was growing up, my

770
00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:26,040
Speaker 1: dad would go shoot pheasants with with his brother in

771
00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:28,680
Speaker 1: law every night during the season they would go and

772
00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:30,600
Speaker 1: it like I just took it for granted that that

773
00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:33,239
Speaker 1: opportunity was just there, and by the time I got

774
00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:36,440
Speaker 1: into it, it was already like we're losing our spots

775
00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:38,759
Speaker 1: to hunt and it was going away. And you know,

776
00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:40,640
Speaker 1: in high school, I ended up going down to Iowa

777
00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:43,319
Speaker 1: more because they had more CRP and I had like

778
00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:45,640
Speaker 1: the gravity of the fact that like these birds that

779
00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:48,759
Speaker 1: I love, these pheasants, they need I think they say

780
00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:52,840
Speaker 1: forty acres of nesting habitat per section or something something

781
00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:55,800
Speaker 1: like that. And when you don't have that, they're just gone.

782
00:37:56,239 --> 00:37:57,839
Speaker 1: You don't like you might have a little a few

783
00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:00,080
Speaker 1: fringe birds here and there, somebody might maybe sit a

784
00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:05,000
Speaker 1: little population of them, but generally the opportunity disappears, and

785
00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:07,520
Speaker 1: you look at that and go, man, that's that sucks.

786
00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:09,399
Speaker 1: Like I get what, you know, like I get why

787
00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:11,719
Speaker 1: it went away, and I get why we're losing it now,

788
00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:15,200
Speaker 1: Like I understand, is a big issue. But when you

789
00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:17,719
Speaker 1: look at like everything that uses it and everything that

790
00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:19,720
Speaker 1: needs it, then you look at some of the erosion stuff.

791
00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:21,880
Speaker 1: Like I grew up, I know you love to fish

792
00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:24,880
Speaker 1: and trout fish, you know, I grew up fishing lots

793
00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:28,239
Speaker 1: of trout streams, like that's what we did. And then

794
00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:30,319
Speaker 1: you see how it changes with the runoff and how

795
00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:32,120
Speaker 1: long it takes the run off to get through there.

796
00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:35,000
Speaker 1: And you watch some of these streams you grew up fishing,

797
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:38,200
Speaker 1: and they were brooks brook trout streams when you were ten,

798
00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:41,680
Speaker 1: and now they're brown trout and suckers, you know, Like

799
00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:45,680
Speaker 1: you see these changes, and part of it is tied

800
00:38:45,719 --> 00:38:49,360
Speaker 1: to the fact that this this habitat that we had,

801
00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:52,800
Speaker 1: you know, these grasslands that we had for ten thousand years,

802
00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:55,719
Speaker 1: they're gone, and we we have the opportunity to bring

803
00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:57,920
Speaker 1: some of them back, or at least, you know, stop

804
00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:00,440
Speaker 1: the bleeding a little bit. Man. I I'm for it.

805
00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:06,040
Speaker 1: I feel like and and and this is like a

806
00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:08,520
Speaker 1: dead horse that we're beating over and over because it's

807
00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:12,480
Speaker 1: cliche gas, but I keep on thinking about it, like

808
00:39:12,600 --> 00:39:17,359
Speaker 1: having kids just changes the level of significance, I guess

809
00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:18,960
Speaker 1: with these things even more, Like it's one thing for

810
00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:20,839
Speaker 1: us not to get to enjoy them or see them

811
00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:22,840
Speaker 1: or experience them. But for some reason, at least for me,

812
00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:28,799
Speaker 1: it feels like a different level of just shittiness that

813
00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:31,120
Speaker 1: my kids wouldn't necessarily be able to see that or

814
00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:34,520
Speaker 1: experience that. Like all these stories we just told, if

815
00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:36,759
Speaker 1: there's half this much country like that left for them

816
00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:38,120
Speaker 1: twenty years from now when they want to go out

817
00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:41,040
Speaker 1: and do this thing, that'd be pretty that would be

818
00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:44,520
Speaker 1: pretty tragic. Yeah. Well yeah, and there's going to be

819
00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:49,600
Speaker 1: implications way beyond that, some game species and probably probably

820
00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:52,399
Speaker 1: a whole lot of well, you know, butterflies and things

821
00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:54,319
Speaker 1: that songbirds. And we're not really thinking, like, we're not

822
00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:57,560
Speaker 1: focused because we don't shoot them and eat them. But there. Yeah,

823
00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:01,160
Speaker 1: it's not great. No, no, it's not so I guess that.

824
00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:04,239
Speaker 1: I guess the one silver lining here is that there

825
00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:06,920
Speaker 1: are people that are trying to change this. There are

826
00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:09,200
Speaker 1: groups that are trying to change us. There are opportunities

827
00:40:09,239 --> 00:40:12,560
Speaker 1: for us to get involved in ways to stop that

828
00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:15,840
Speaker 1: bleeding or to actually kick start things back in the

829
00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:17,920
Speaker 1: right direction. And that's what the next half of this

830
00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:20,280
Speaker 1: episode is gonna be about. Tony. We've got two great guests,

831
00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:23,399
Speaker 1: Torn Miller and Bethany Herb. We're gonna walk us through

832
00:40:23,560 --> 00:40:26,879
Speaker 1: a potential solution, a step in the right direction away

833
00:40:26,920 --> 00:40:30,120
Speaker 1: we can try to get back moving in the right direction.

834
00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:46,719
Speaker 1: So should we get to that alright with me. Now

835
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:51,279
Speaker 1: today I've got Bethany Herb and Torren Miller. I appreciate

836
00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:56,319
Speaker 1: you both joining me and to get us started. Bethany,

837
00:40:56,600 --> 00:41:00,200
Speaker 1: could you give me a really quick introduction to what

838
00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:04,680
Speaker 1: exactly your role is at Pheasants Forever and then what

839
00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:07,400
Speaker 1: brought you to this kind of work? Why is it

840
00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:09,360
Speaker 1: that you wanted to work at an n g O

841
00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:16,120
Speaker 1: doing conservation? Sure? Um, so, hello every when. My name

842
00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:18,759
Speaker 1: is Bethany Irv. I'm the director of government Affairs for

843
00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:22,320
Speaker 1: Sentence Forever and Quail Forever. I'm based in Washington, d C.

844
00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:27,520
Speaker 1: Have been working on conservation environmental policy on Capitol Hill

845
00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:31,560
Speaker 1: for over fifteen years. Now, Um, why is that into

846
00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:33,520
Speaker 1: this line of work? Is? Um? You know, I grew

847
00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:36,640
Speaker 1: up on a ranch in southwest Montana. I grew up

848
00:41:36,640 --> 00:41:40,560
Speaker 1: in the outdoors. I love the vast open spaces. Uh.

849
00:41:40,640 --> 00:41:44,120
Speaker 1: And my career, my childhood brought me into the career

850
00:41:44,120 --> 00:41:47,320
Speaker 1: that I'm in today, where I work on national policy

851
00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:54,000
Speaker 1: that focuses on conservation and more specifically grasslands. Okay, Torn,

852
00:41:54,239 --> 00:41:56,600
Speaker 1: same question to you. What are you doing at the

853
00:41:56,719 --> 00:42:01,680
Speaker 1: n DA these days? And why are you here? Yeah? So,

854
00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:05,240
Speaker 1: my name is Torn Miller I'm the director of Policy

855
00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:08,640
Speaker 1: at the National Deer Association. I actually came to the

856
00:42:08,719 --> 00:42:13,520
Speaker 1: Deer Association via the merger of the Quality Deer Management

857
00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:16,880
Speaker 1: Association and the National Deer Alliance UM. I worked over

858
00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:20,720
Speaker 1: at the National Deer Alliance for although I had intern

859
00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:24,560
Speaker 1: experience both with q d m A and the Alliance before, UH,

860
00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:28,720
Speaker 1: you know, getting a job here and working. But born,

861
00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:32,000
Speaker 1: raised and still live in central Pennsylvania and grew up

862
00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:38,160
Speaker 1: in Pennsylvania's very strong hunting camp culture, particularly UH that's

863
00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:41,520
Speaker 1: particularly strong throughout the northern part of our state, and

864
00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:44,680
Speaker 1: so always had a really strong connection with the woods

865
00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:50,320
Speaker 1: and waters. UM very passionate about the wildlife and the landscape,

866
00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:54,320
Speaker 1: and so that led me to an education and wildlife

867
00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:57,520
Speaker 1: and fisheries UH. And while going through that process, I

868
00:42:57,560 --> 00:42:59,839
Speaker 1: realized that I had a really strong interest in human

869
00:42:59,880 --> 00:43:01,840
Speaker 1: to engines and the policy side of things, and I

870
00:43:01,840 --> 00:43:04,560
Speaker 1: saw a real opportunity there to to make it real

871
00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:08,239
Speaker 1: on the ground different and so that led me to

872
00:43:08,560 --> 00:43:11,200
Speaker 1: law school and to focus a little bit more on

873
00:43:11,239 --> 00:43:13,960
Speaker 1: the legislative side of things and how laws and policies

874
00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:17,239
Speaker 1: are formed and influenced. And so I ended up here

875
00:43:17,560 --> 00:43:22,279
Speaker 1: at the National de Association focusing on all of our

876
00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:24,960
Speaker 1: policy and at the efforts everything you know, from the

877
00:43:24,960 --> 00:43:30,320
Speaker 1: grassroots level to direct outreach to the lawmakers, um, everything

878
00:43:30,360 --> 00:43:33,240
Speaker 1: from local and state level up to big federal issues.

879
00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:35,400
Speaker 1: And so I get to work every day with folks

880
00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:40,000
Speaker 1: like Bethany and organizations like hers on big conservation topics.

881
00:43:40,840 --> 00:43:44,640
Speaker 1: Unfortunate enough that folks looked just to engage on cool

882
00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:51,359
Speaker 1: projects and initiatives like the North North American Grasslands Conservation Act. So, yes,

883
00:43:51,680 --> 00:43:55,040
Speaker 1: you said it right there. The North American Grasslands Conservation

884
00:43:55,080 --> 00:43:58,120
Speaker 1: Act is the is the latest issue on each of

885
00:43:58,160 --> 00:44:02,359
Speaker 1: your to do lists these days. Uh. When we say grasslands,

886
00:44:03,239 --> 00:44:05,920
Speaker 1: when we talk about any kind of grassland related habitat

887
00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:09,920
Speaker 1: that's covered by this potential bill, what are we talking about? What?

888
00:44:10,440 --> 00:44:13,080
Speaker 1: How do how do you guys define that ecosystem? Where

889
00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:16,239
Speaker 1: is this stuff? Is this just a Montana and Wyoming

890
00:44:16,360 --> 00:44:21,160
Speaker 1: thing or is this applicable to someone in Michigan or Pennsylvania. Uh, Bethany,

891
00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:25,839
Speaker 1: do you want to jump on that first? Sure? Um,

892
00:44:25,880 --> 00:44:28,000
Speaker 1: that's a really great question. And I'm going to apologize

893
00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:31,640
Speaker 1: in advance to the biologist listening um this podcast, because

894
00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:33,400
Speaker 1: I'm not So I apologize if I get some of

895
00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:38,560
Speaker 1: the terminologies incorrect. Um, we are looking at a wide

896
00:44:38,680 --> 00:44:41,640
Speaker 1: dw off of land across the U. S. UM, this

897
00:44:41,719 --> 00:44:46,200
Speaker 1: isn't just a great plane issue, and so we it's

898
00:44:45,800 --> 00:44:48,040
Speaker 1: it's a name at this point. It's the North American

899
00:44:48,040 --> 00:44:51,720
Speaker 1: Grasslands Conservation Act, but it also includes the stage brush

900
00:44:51,760 --> 00:44:58,520
Speaker 1: bios and grasslands include every form of grassland, coastal grassland,

901
00:44:58,560 --> 00:45:02,279
Speaker 1: savannah UM. And so it's a huge area of the

902
00:45:02,360 --> 00:45:06,279
Speaker 1: United States because almost every state has an area that

903
00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:12,000
Speaker 1: would be considered currently or historically grasslands. Torrent. What about

904
00:45:12,600 --> 00:45:15,960
Speaker 1: specifically in deer country, I mean, the first thing that

905
00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:18,040
Speaker 1: comes to mind when I think of grasslands and I

906
00:45:18,040 --> 00:45:22,000
Speaker 1: think of how that is relevant to whitetail deer is

907
00:45:22,120 --> 00:45:25,400
Speaker 1: all the CRP grown we've got across the Midwest. Is

908
00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:27,440
Speaker 1: that the kind of thing that comes to mind for

909
00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:31,880
Speaker 1: you when you think specifically dear So that's absolutely like

910
00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:35,040
Speaker 1: the first um type of cover that deer hunters would

911
00:45:35,040 --> 00:45:37,680
Speaker 1: think of. And not all CRP is is true grassland

912
00:45:37,719 --> 00:45:40,000
Speaker 1: or true native grassland, but that's sort of the cover

913
00:45:40,120 --> 00:45:44,040
Speaker 1: types that we're talking about. But UM, certainly throughout the

914
00:45:44,360 --> 00:45:48,239
Speaker 1: Midwest and pushing farther west. I mean, you've experienced those

915
00:45:48,280 --> 00:45:51,520
Speaker 1: landscapes marks you're thinking sort of pothole prairie, and then

916
00:45:51,640 --> 00:45:55,800
Speaker 1: native tall, short mixed grass prairie or things that have

917
00:45:55,920 --> 00:45:59,880
Speaker 1: historically been native prairie. In the southeast, you're thinking thing

918
00:46:00,120 --> 00:46:05,200
Speaker 1: like pine savannah. UM. So these ecosystems are really, as

919
00:46:05,280 --> 00:46:07,480
Speaker 1: Benthany said, all over the country and really all throughout

920
00:46:07,480 --> 00:46:13,319
Speaker 1: our deer habitat um and pretty much anywhere throughout the US. UH,

921
00:46:13,520 --> 00:46:16,000
Speaker 1: You're going to be somewhere where there there is or

922
00:46:16,360 --> 00:46:20,400
Speaker 1: was native grassland at at one point. I think generally

923
00:46:20,440 --> 00:46:22,880
Speaker 1: when we think grassland or stage of US, we certainly

924
00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:24,759
Speaker 1: get the picture of Western landscapes in our head, just

925
00:46:24,760 --> 00:46:27,080
Speaker 1: because this is sort of the iconic nature of those,

926
00:46:27,400 --> 00:46:33,000
Speaker 1: uh landscapes. But there are grasslands throughout the south, southeast, Midwest,

927
00:46:33,520 --> 00:46:36,600
Speaker 1: mid Atlantic, and even in some cases throughout the northeast

928
00:46:36,800 --> 00:46:41,359
Speaker 1: and northwest. Yeah. And I can say, from at least

929
00:46:41,320 --> 00:46:44,839
Speaker 1: anecdotal experience, uh to what you said to her, I've

930
00:46:44,880 --> 00:46:47,360
Speaker 1: seen these types of habitats in one form or another

931
00:46:47,760 --> 00:46:49,879
Speaker 1: all across the country, and at least from my own

932
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:52,880
Speaker 1: personal experiences out there, either hiking through them or hunting

933
00:46:52,920 --> 00:46:56,680
Speaker 1: near them or in them, they're typically pretty prolific as

934
00:46:56,760 --> 00:47:02,760
Speaker 1: far as how wildlife utilize them. That's deer, birds, bugs,

935
00:47:02,800 --> 00:47:06,160
Speaker 1: the whole nine yards. But torn when you guys at

936
00:47:06,160 --> 00:47:08,399
Speaker 1: the NBA to look at this issue and you start

937
00:47:08,440 --> 00:47:11,360
Speaker 1: talking about why do grasslands matter? Why do these types

938
00:47:11,400 --> 00:47:14,480
Speaker 1: of habitats matter for deer or deer hunters, which is

939
00:47:14,520 --> 00:47:20,080
Speaker 1: obviously your constituency base. Uh, why why why does this

940
00:47:20,120 --> 00:47:22,880
Speaker 1: matter to deer hunters? Why do you guys, why are

941
00:47:22,920 --> 00:47:26,520
Speaker 1: you taking a stand in support of this kind of habitat? Um?

942
00:47:26,719 --> 00:47:28,719
Speaker 1: Can you kind of elaborate on the importance of this

943
00:47:28,840 --> 00:47:33,799
Speaker 1: kind of stuff for the critters that were so passionate about. Yeah,

944
00:47:33,880 --> 00:47:37,920
Speaker 1: so um at the National Deer Association, we're interested in

945
00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:40,400
Speaker 1: all your species to white tail, and you'll do your

946
00:47:40,400 --> 00:47:44,359
Speaker 1: black tail and all the subspecies and so um, as

947
00:47:44,400 --> 00:47:46,920
Speaker 1: I mentioned, these grasslands are found throughout the country, and

948
00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:49,759
Speaker 1: so they impact all of these deer species in one

949
00:47:49,760 --> 00:47:53,400
Speaker 1: way or another. And certainly UM throughout the west in

950
00:47:53,440 --> 00:47:55,680
Speaker 1: the stage brush region you're thinking mule deer, and then

951
00:47:55,719 --> 00:47:58,840
Speaker 1: throughout the southeast you're a very strong white tailed culture.

952
00:47:58,880 --> 00:48:02,120
Speaker 1: And so these habitats are critically important to all deer

953
00:48:02,160 --> 00:48:07,440
Speaker 1: species depending on the region, and UM grasslands by nature,

954
00:48:08,160 --> 00:48:12,799
Speaker 1: especially native grasslands UM provide incredible amounts of forage for

955
00:48:12,920 --> 00:48:16,439
Speaker 1: deer UM in the grasses and fords that are growing there.

956
00:48:17,080 --> 00:48:20,200
Speaker 1: They provide incredible amounts of cover for deer UM. And

957
00:48:20,239 --> 00:48:24,040
Speaker 1: anybody who spent enough time around these types of habitats

958
00:48:24,040 --> 00:48:27,239
Speaker 1: and there's hunted and there's a habitat UM certainly know

959
00:48:27,480 --> 00:48:29,719
Speaker 1: that the key in on them. And you know, as

960
00:48:29,719 --> 00:48:32,799
Speaker 1: a deer hunter, as you mentioned, there's UM not much

961
00:48:32,840 --> 00:48:35,319
Speaker 1: better or not much more of a picture or a

962
00:48:35,320 --> 00:48:37,239
Speaker 1: picture that comes more to mind than like a big

963
00:48:37,280 --> 00:48:41,000
Speaker 1: crp field separated by like a wooded draw or something.

964
00:48:41,640 --> 00:48:44,560
Speaker 1: That's because it's we just, yeah, exactly, we know that

965
00:48:44,600 --> 00:48:47,279
Speaker 1: they're just such great deer habitat. And so that's where

966
00:48:47,280 --> 00:48:50,960
Speaker 1: a lot of our interest comes from, UM is the

967
00:48:51,040 --> 00:48:55,520
Speaker 1: conservation and creation of excellent deer habitat, both when we're

968
00:48:55,560 --> 00:49:00,840
Speaker 1: talking cover and forage UM. But out side of really

969
00:49:00,880 --> 00:49:05,080
Speaker 1: focusing on deer and deer hunting, grasslands provide just a

970
00:49:05,080 --> 00:49:10,520
Speaker 1: wide array of UM environmental services UH, you know, including

971
00:49:10,520 --> 00:49:14,920
Speaker 1: carbon sequestration, water filtration, UM. Excellent habitat for non a

972
00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:20,040
Speaker 1: game or non game species UM excellent you know, cover

973
00:49:20,200 --> 00:49:23,840
Speaker 1: and forage for pollinators and all those sorts of things. Yeah, Bethani,

974
00:49:23,920 --> 00:49:26,799
Speaker 1: would you have anything to add to that, especially, you know,

975
00:49:26,920 --> 00:49:30,160
Speaker 1: on that topic of outside of just deer. I mean,

976
00:49:30,600 --> 00:49:34,680
Speaker 1: these are important landscapes for a whole suite of of

977
00:49:34,680 --> 00:49:40,799
Speaker 1: critters in life, right, Yeah, absolutely, UM, and I think

978
00:49:40,880 --> 00:49:45,160
Speaker 1: touring summarized it beautifully. UM. I wanted to reference something

979
00:49:45,400 --> 00:49:47,440
Speaker 1: program that you mentioned earlier, which is the RP and

980
00:49:47,520 --> 00:49:52,520
Speaker 1: the Conservation Reserve Program, and that has been from a

981
00:49:51,680 --> 00:49:56,399
Speaker 1: a bird hunter perspective and from our organization, very very

982
00:49:56,400 --> 00:50:00,840
Speaker 1: critical UM to good habitat for upland birds. And so

983
00:50:01,160 --> 00:50:05,239
Speaker 1: we wanted to do something, UM that would be complementary

984
00:50:05,360 --> 00:50:08,600
Speaker 1: to CRP, and so we started to talk, uh with

985
00:50:08,719 --> 00:50:11,879
Speaker 1: TORN and other groups about doing something a little more

986
00:50:12,000 --> 00:50:15,200
Speaker 1: broad um in a new agency. And we're gonna get

987
00:50:15,200 --> 00:50:17,080
Speaker 1: into the policy a little bit further down the road.

988
00:50:17,120 --> 00:50:20,640
Speaker 1: But UH, CRP as administered to the USDA Department of Agriculture,

989
00:50:20,680 --> 00:50:22,080
Speaker 1: and we started to look to do something at the

990
00:50:22,080 --> 00:50:26,600
Speaker 1: Department of Interior and UM as Torn mentioned too, you know,

991
00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:29,200
Speaker 1: or at a time on Capitol Hill right now, where

992
00:50:29,719 --> 00:50:34,080
Speaker 1: legislators want to make policy as it relates to climate change,

993
00:50:34,680 --> 00:50:39,040
Speaker 1: and we believe that that grasslands are a critical part

994
00:50:39,040 --> 00:50:40,839
Speaker 1: of this discussion. We see a lot of policy coming

995
00:50:40,840 --> 00:50:45,600
Speaker 1: out about forestry, UM important part of the policy discussion. UM.

996
00:50:46,080 --> 00:50:50,200
Speaker 1: But grasslands definitely have their place, uh carbon capture, the

997
00:50:50,560 --> 00:50:53,320
Speaker 1: potential and the value that they bring or have always

998
00:50:53,360 --> 00:50:56,399
Speaker 1: brought and could continue to bring or bring more. UM,

999
00:50:56,760 --> 00:51:02,280
Speaker 1: it's really necessary. When we talked about creating UM climate policy. Yeah,

1000
00:51:02,640 --> 00:51:05,640
Speaker 1: so you guys are telling me that grasslands are good

1001
00:51:05,680 --> 00:51:08,160
Speaker 1: for deer, they're good for pheasants, they're good for quail,

1002
00:51:08,400 --> 00:51:11,279
Speaker 1: they're good for bugs, they're good for hunters, and they're

1003
00:51:11,280 --> 00:51:14,840
Speaker 1: good for the environment. Uh. That all sounds good. That

1004
00:51:14,920 --> 00:51:18,839
Speaker 1: sounds great. But I was out in Iowa. I saw grasslands.

1005
00:51:18,920 --> 00:51:21,080
Speaker 1: I've seen some grasslands here in Michigan. When I go

1006
00:51:21,080 --> 00:51:23,080
Speaker 1: out west, I see grasslands. It seems like we've got

1007
00:51:23,120 --> 00:51:27,080
Speaker 1: a lot of grass Is there a problem here? What?

1008
00:51:27,080 --> 00:51:28,840
Speaker 1: What's what? What is the problem? I see that. I

1009
00:51:28,840 --> 00:51:32,160
Speaker 1: say that jokingly because I know actually that grasslands are

1010
00:51:33,000 --> 00:51:36,440
Speaker 1: maybe one of the most imperiled ecosystems across the world.

1011
00:51:36,480 --> 00:51:38,800
Speaker 1: I think I've read before, But can can you elaborate

1012
00:51:38,800 --> 00:51:40,880
Speaker 1: in that a little bit, Bethany As far as what

1013
00:51:41,000 --> 00:51:44,000
Speaker 1: the trend has been with grasslands because I mean, like

1014
00:51:44,040 --> 00:51:46,280
Speaker 1: I just kind of jokingly said, sometimes it can feel

1015
00:51:46,280 --> 00:51:48,000
Speaker 1: like there's plenty of it, but there's a whole lot

1016
00:51:48,080 --> 00:51:51,719
Speaker 1: less than there used to be, isn't there? There is

1017
00:51:52,200 --> 00:51:55,360
Speaker 1: um and we are kind of we're working with different

1018
00:51:55,360 --> 00:51:57,680
Speaker 1: partners right now to come up with an exact assessment

1019
00:51:57,680 --> 00:51:59,520
Speaker 1: of how much has lost. For a year right now,

1020
00:51:59,560 --> 00:52:03,840
Speaker 1: we you um a metric that we were losing about

1021
00:52:03,920 --> 00:52:06,960
Speaker 1: We've already lost about the size every ten years, the

1022
00:52:07,000 --> 00:52:11,719
Speaker 1: size of kansas of grassland. And I can't tell you

1023
00:52:11,840 --> 00:52:14,279
Speaker 1: right now without avan my resources in front of me

1024
00:52:14,320 --> 00:52:16,160
Speaker 1: how much we're losing. But we know that we are

1025
00:52:16,239 --> 00:52:19,920
Speaker 1: losing a lot of acres of grasslands, and they're in

1026
00:52:20,000 --> 00:52:22,960
Speaker 1: places where there's a ton of urban sprawl, for example

1027
00:52:23,320 --> 00:52:26,160
Speaker 1: where I'm from in southwest Montana. You know, places like

1028
00:52:26,320 --> 00:52:29,600
Speaker 1: the Gallanton Valley or just expanding h rapidly, and people

1029
00:52:29,600 --> 00:52:33,200
Speaker 1: want to live on these landscapes. They're beautiful. And when

1030
00:52:33,800 --> 00:52:37,040
Speaker 1: I mean when I'm just talking about habitat change or

1031
00:52:37,080 --> 00:52:40,600
Speaker 1: destruction in terms of urban development, but when when you

1032
00:52:41,480 --> 00:52:44,000
Speaker 1: subdivide a field that was once a grassland, whether it

1033
00:52:44,040 --> 00:52:47,960
Speaker 1: was cattle ranching or just an open field for you know, whatever,

1034
00:52:48,200 --> 00:52:53,319
Speaker 1: like you're disrupting migration route. Um. It's all sorts of

1035
00:52:54,000 --> 00:52:57,680
Speaker 1: ecological disruptions happened when there's a subdivision. We're also talking

1036
00:52:57,680 --> 00:53:01,200
Speaker 1: about farmland conversions and know there's a lot of pressure

1037
00:53:01,200 --> 00:53:04,440
Speaker 1: on these really special places, um, that are great for

1038
00:53:04,560 --> 00:53:08,040
Speaker 1: different forms of wildlife. UM. And so we're just looking

1039
00:53:08,080 --> 00:53:11,719
Speaker 1: to do something that keeps more of these special graphlines

1040
00:53:11,760 --> 00:53:16,279
Speaker 1: places be intact. Yeah. Yeah, I read somewhere that we

1041
00:53:16,400 --> 00:53:20,040
Speaker 1: lose a million acres of this habitat every year. UM.

1042
00:53:20,080 --> 00:53:22,160
Speaker 1: And like you said that since two thousand seven is

1043
00:53:22,160 --> 00:53:26,399
Speaker 1: about the size of Kansas gone. Um And so am

1044
00:53:26,440 --> 00:53:28,840
Speaker 1: I right that A lot of what has happened recently

1045
00:53:28,920 --> 00:53:30,800
Speaker 1: and you kind of alluded to this with that crop

1046
00:53:30,800 --> 00:53:33,839
Speaker 1: conversion is some grounds that were protected in c RP

1047
00:53:34,560 --> 00:53:39,040
Speaker 1: were then converted back to row crops, and that's been

1048
00:53:39,080 --> 00:53:42,000
Speaker 1: an increasing trend in recent years. Prices and different things

1049
00:53:42,040 --> 00:53:47,960
Speaker 1: like that. UM. Is that something that is this is well,

1050
00:53:48,360 --> 00:53:49,919
Speaker 1: we're gonna get into this bill. I guess a little

1051
00:53:49,920 --> 00:53:52,480
Speaker 1: bit more. Maybe maybe maybe I retract my question, Maybe

1052
00:53:52,480 --> 00:53:56,879
Speaker 1: I'm getting ahead of myself. UM, torn I guess let

1053
00:53:56,880 --> 00:53:58,959
Speaker 1: me let me pivot and just ask if you would

1054
00:53:59,000 --> 00:54:01,800
Speaker 1: have anything to add when it comes to the problems

1055
00:54:01,800 --> 00:54:04,560
Speaker 1: we're seeing what I guess when I mentioned the CRP thing,

1056
00:54:04,600 --> 00:54:07,440
Speaker 1: I remember talking to Kip Adams, the director of Conservator

1057
00:54:07,560 --> 00:54:10,120
Speaker 1: chief conservation officer there over with you guys, n d A,

1058
00:54:10,560 --> 00:54:14,160
Speaker 1: and he talked about back in like twousen fifteen sixteen seventeen,

1059
00:54:14,800 --> 00:54:18,040
Speaker 1: when we were worried about some potential trends with white

1060
00:54:18,040 --> 00:54:20,600
Speaker 1: tailed deer. One of the things we were worried about

1061
00:54:20,719 --> 00:54:23,040
Speaker 1: was this loss of habitat. A tremendous amount of c

1062
00:54:23,160 --> 00:54:26,520
Speaker 1: RP was converted back to crop lands. Can you elaborate

1063
00:54:26,520 --> 00:54:29,239
Speaker 1: on that? Can you speak to any other things we're

1064
00:54:29,239 --> 00:54:32,479
Speaker 1: singing along those lines? Um? And how you guys see

1065
00:54:32,520 --> 00:54:38,480
Speaker 1: that impacting what tails? Yeah, so a lot of the

1066
00:54:38,600 --> 00:54:43,880
Speaker 1: concerns outside of even just habitat conversion with you know, uh,

1067
00:54:44,000 --> 00:54:50,640
Speaker 1: suburban sprawl and UM landscape use changes. Um, we're seeing

1068
00:54:50,680 --> 00:54:53,960
Speaker 1: that a lot of the native grasslands are are seeing

1069
00:54:54,280 --> 00:54:58,080
Speaker 1: the inversion of non native species, which are negative for

1070
00:54:58,120 --> 00:55:00,960
Speaker 1: a lot of reasons, UM, but up in their value

1071
00:55:01,000 --> 00:55:06,080
Speaker 1: to the native wildlife and the overall landscape. But UM,

1072
00:55:06,200 --> 00:55:09,040
Speaker 1: we're seeing a lot more wildfire risks, both in sage

1073
00:55:09,040 --> 00:55:14,040
Speaker 1: brush and grasslands with the introduction of more non native

1074
00:55:14,120 --> 00:55:17,439
Speaker 1: or invasive species of grasses and forbes. Um, they're less

1075
00:55:17,440 --> 00:55:20,680
Speaker 1: fire resistant, and so when they're introduced to these landscapes,

1076
00:55:20,719 --> 00:55:24,719
Speaker 1: these landscapes become more fire susceptible UM. And so we're

1077
00:55:24,719 --> 00:55:29,480
Speaker 1: seeing destruction in that sense um too. And then we're

1078
00:55:29,520 --> 00:55:34,719
Speaker 1: just seeing, as you mentioned, with farming and grazing practices, UM,

1079
00:55:34,880 --> 00:55:39,160
Speaker 1: we're not doing enough to incentivize folks who own these

1080
00:55:39,239 --> 00:55:42,799
Speaker 1: lands as working lands to keep them in their sort

1081
00:55:42,840 --> 00:55:45,760
Speaker 1: of natural and native grass land states. And so there

1082
00:55:45,800 --> 00:55:50,000
Speaker 1: are absolutely ways that we can keep these landscapes as

1083
00:55:50,080 --> 00:55:53,840
Speaker 1: working landscapes and still provide all the wildlife and environmental

1084
00:55:53,840 --> 00:55:57,000
Speaker 1: benefits that they have, but we need to provide incentives

1085
00:55:57,080 --> 00:56:00,239
Speaker 1: and knowledge um for people to do that. And so

1086
00:56:00,520 --> 00:56:02,960
Speaker 1: nothing like this really exists. And even with the the

1087
00:56:03,040 --> 00:56:07,320
Speaker 1: CRP program, it's been UM severely under enrolled in recent

1088
00:56:07,400 --> 00:56:11,640
Speaker 1: years and underfunded. And so this this piece of legislation,

1089
00:56:11,680 --> 00:56:14,279
Speaker 1: and again we'll get into some of the more specifics,

1090
00:56:14,280 --> 00:56:18,200
Speaker 1: but it tackles that by helping to encourage folks who

1091
00:56:18,200 --> 00:56:21,360
Speaker 1: own um lands that are in grasslands. And it's like

1092
00:56:21,440 --> 00:56:26,680
Speaker 1: something like eight of our our grassland ecosystems are privately owned. Um,

1093
00:56:26,680 --> 00:56:29,200
Speaker 1: it's getting them the tools and incentives to keep these

1094
00:56:29,280 --> 00:56:32,920
Speaker 1: lands intact outside of you know, urban development and outside

1095
00:56:32,920 --> 00:56:39,880
Speaker 1: of crop usage and sort of conversion for agriculture or grazing. Yeah. Um,

1096
00:56:39,960 --> 00:56:42,200
Speaker 1: so So Bethany, do you want to kind of help

1097
00:56:42,280 --> 00:56:44,040
Speaker 1: us take that next step then? Because I think you've

1098
00:56:44,040 --> 00:56:48,759
Speaker 1: been pretty um integral in driving the direction of the

1099
00:56:48,760 --> 00:56:52,399
Speaker 1: North American Grasslands Conservation at can you can you spell

1100
00:56:52,440 --> 00:56:55,399
Speaker 1: out for us exactly what this is and how it's

1101
00:56:55,400 --> 00:57:01,719
Speaker 1: going to help us solve the problems that we just discussed. Sure. Um,

1102
00:57:01,760 --> 00:57:04,120
Speaker 1: And the first thing I'll put out there are two

1103
00:57:04,120 --> 00:57:05,920
Speaker 1: words tour and already said them, but I'm gonna say

1104
00:57:05,960 --> 00:57:08,080
Speaker 1: them again. They're the most important part of this discussion.

1105
00:57:08,640 --> 00:57:13,080
Speaker 1: Voluntary and incentive space. So we at Presents Forever and

1106
00:57:13,160 --> 00:57:15,719
Speaker 1: Quail Forever have a long history of working in partnership

1107
00:57:15,719 --> 00:57:19,080
Speaker 1: with landowners, and UM, we do not agree with taking

1108
00:57:19,120 --> 00:57:22,040
Speaker 1: any sort of regulatory approach that makes life more difficult

1109
00:57:22,640 --> 00:57:25,480
Speaker 1: uh for private landowners and that we want to construct

1110
00:57:25,520 --> 00:57:29,560
Speaker 1: policy that is complimentary in incentive based to grazing operations.

1111
00:57:30,280 --> 00:57:33,240
Speaker 1: So the concept that we're talking about in name now

1112
00:57:33,320 --> 00:57:36,880
Speaker 1: is the North American Grasslands Conservation Act. Which includes stage brush.

1113
00:57:36,920 --> 00:57:38,920
Speaker 1: So it didn't coudn't quite make the formal title, but

1114
00:57:38,960 --> 00:57:42,439
Speaker 1: it's in there. And UM we've worked very closely with

1115
00:57:42,720 --> 00:57:46,320
Speaker 1: UH Senator Ron Wyden from Oregon his wonderful staff to

1116
00:57:46,520 --> 00:57:49,560
Speaker 1: start putting pen to paper on what this legislative language

1117
00:57:49,600 --> 00:57:53,040
Speaker 1: will look like. And so UM as we're talking about

1118
00:57:53,040 --> 00:57:56,160
Speaker 1: it right now in draft form, it would be quite

1119
00:57:56,160 --> 00:58:01,280
Speaker 1: similar to NAKA, the North American Wetlands Servation Act. So

1120
00:58:01,440 --> 00:58:06,040
Speaker 1: NAKA is a program um that's administered at the Department

1121
00:58:06,040 --> 00:58:09,800
Speaker 1: of Interior by the US Fish and Wildlife Service, and

1122
00:58:09,880 --> 00:58:14,440
Speaker 1: it's a grant program um and their UH and see

1123
00:58:15,280 --> 00:58:19,480
Speaker 1: Grant program Um and Eavenent program for wet land conservation

1124
00:58:19,600 --> 00:58:23,440
Speaker 1: on private land. It's been torn right now. I can't

1125
00:58:23,440 --> 00:58:25,840
Speaker 1: remember how many years KNOCK has been around, but I

1126
00:58:25,880 --> 00:58:29,480
Speaker 1: think it's over over thirty or forty, very very effective

1127
00:58:29,520 --> 00:58:33,280
Speaker 1: increasing waterfoul production numbers. And so we started to take

1128
00:58:33,280 --> 00:58:36,080
Speaker 1: a look and say, okay, when just looking at like

1129
00:58:36,120 --> 00:58:38,920
Speaker 1: grassland birds, like all of them are in decline and

1130
00:58:39,080 --> 00:58:43,280
Speaker 1: we land birds are not. What's different? And we recognize

1131
00:58:43,280 --> 00:58:45,880
Speaker 1: that there was policy out there, specific policy to protect

1132
00:58:45,880 --> 00:58:48,520
Speaker 1: wet lands and habitats, and so we started to say, well,

1133
00:58:48,600 --> 00:58:51,280
Speaker 1: let's model that and let's do it for grasslands. So

1134
00:58:51,360 --> 00:58:54,600
Speaker 1: we're looking at a much bigger UM swaths of land

1135
00:58:54,800 --> 00:58:57,560
Speaker 1: than wet lands UM, and so it's going to be

1136
00:58:57,640 --> 00:59:02,120
Speaker 1: a program that will be we're looking somewhere between two

1137
00:59:02,200 --> 00:59:05,040
Speaker 1: hundred and three hundred million dollars per year every year

1138
00:59:05,720 --> 00:59:09,320
Speaker 1: UM an authorization that would go through an annual appropriation

1139
00:59:09,360 --> 00:59:12,640
Speaker 1: cycle and it would again, you know, we don't have

1140
00:59:12,680 --> 00:59:15,280
Speaker 1: the language. It hasn't been introduced yet, so it's still

1141
00:59:15,320 --> 00:59:17,240
Speaker 1: being drafted. You could look a lot of different ways,

1142
00:59:17,640 --> 00:59:20,479
Speaker 1: but it would include UM a tribal component which would

1143
00:59:20,480 --> 00:59:23,160
Speaker 1: be unique and so that tribes could participate in this

1144
00:59:23,520 --> 00:59:28,200
Speaker 1: UM just pretty incredible program and and do habitat improvement

1145
00:59:28,240 --> 00:59:32,200
Speaker 1: on tribal lands UM. That kind of is one of

1146
00:59:32,280 --> 00:59:35,320
Speaker 1: the more unique angles that we've taken and have support

1147
00:59:35,400 --> 00:59:40,280
Speaker 1: from UM several different tribal organizations and UM as it

1148
00:59:40,520 --> 00:59:45,640
Speaker 1: as it relates to naka UM. The grant program would

1149
00:59:45,680 --> 00:59:50,400
Speaker 1: allow for different UM flexible landowner based approaches, so I

1150
00:59:50,400 --> 00:59:55,520
Speaker 1: think Thorn mentioned earlier like wildfire prevention so prescribed by

1151
00:59:55,560 --> 00:59:58,360
Speaker 1: would be one of them. UM. You could do things

1152
00:59:58,440 --> 01:00:04,360
Speaker 1: like um uh rant or like educational programs on different

1153
01:00:04,520 --> 01:00:09,400
Speaker 1: UM you know, ranching transition UM plans. You could perhaps

1154
01:00:09,440 --> 01:00:12,120
Speaker 1: do like different fencing projects that could be funded through

1155
01:00:12,120 --> 01:00:18,520
Speaker 1: this UM, perhaps of water quality or water management irrigation plans.

1156
01:00:18,560 --> 01:00:22,800
Speaker 1: And it also allows for easement UM. At this time,

1157
01:00:22,840 --> 01:00:24,800
Speaker 1: the language is not being considered for any sort of

1158
01:00:24,800 --> 01:00:28,640
Speaker 1: fee acquisition, but easements that could be held either by

1159
01:00:28,680 --> 01:00:32,040
Speaker 1: the US Fish and Wildlife Service or independent land trust.

1160
01:00:32,200 --> 01:00:33,960
Speaker 1: We know there are a lot of independent land trust

1161
01:00:34,480 --> 01:00:37,400
Speaker 1: UM that works throughout almost every state and they hold easements,

1162
01:00:37,400 --> 01:00:39,280
Speaker 1: they monitor easements, and a lot of times that's a

1163
01:00:39,320 --> 01:00:42,920
Speaker 1: more comfortable approach for landowners that maybe don't want a

1164
01:00:43,000 --> 01:00:45,520
Speaker 1: government agency on their property. So when an independent land

1165
01:00:45,520 --> 01:00:49,280
Speaker 1: trust holds the easement UM that sometimes it's just a

1166
01:00:49,280 --> 01:00:52,280
Speaker 1: more comfortable approach for landowners. So we're trying to construct

1167
01:00:52,320 --> 01:00:57,600
Speaker 1: a flexible program UH that's compatible with grazing and complementary

1168
01:00:57,600 --> 01:01:01,400
Speaker 1: to UM. It would it would fund SHAN in conjunction

1169
01:01:01,480 --> 01:01:04,480
Speaker 1: with us d A programs like the RP, but it

1170
01:01:04,600 --> 01:01:07,840
Speaker 1: has the added flexibility of NAKA that some of the

1171
01:01:07,920 --> 01:01:10,600
Speaker 1: U s d A programs don't have. I also adds

1172
01:01:10,720 --> 01:01:14,560
Speaker 1: UH that U s d A conservation programs UM there's

1173
01:01:14,600 --> 01:01:17,480
Speaker 1: more demand than there is money, so we see a

1174
01:01:17,560 --> 01:01:19,960
Speaker 1: need to do something in addition to the farm built

1175
01:01:20,000 --> 01:01:23,280
Speaker 1: programs and like the idea of having it at the

1176
01:01:23,280 --> 01:01:25,880
Speaker 1: Department of Interior UM and so that's kind of the

1177
01:01:25,920 --> 01:01:29,480
Speaker 1: direction that we're moving UM. As I mentioned, Senator Widen

1178
01:01:29,920 --> 01:01:33,560
Speaker 1: has worked very closely with us on this, and well,

1179
01:01:33,600 --> 01:01:37,360
Speaker 1: I can't speak for him. His staff is, you know, expressed,

1180
01:01:37,560 --> 01:01:39,120
Speaker 1: you know a lot of concerns for wanting to do

1181
01:01:39,200 --> 01:01:42,400
Speaker 1: something UM to help the farming and ranching community compatible

1182
01:01:42,600 --> 01:01:45,760
Speaker 1: ranching operations, but they're also very interested in what it

1183
01:01:45,800 --> 01:01:49,560
Speaker 1: does UM for climate policy. And so we've been pretty

1184
01:01:49,600 --> 01:01:52,680
Speaker 1: fortunate to have him lead this effort. And right now

1185
01:01:53,120 --> 01:01:56,520
Speaker 1: we're really looking hard to generate additional Senate support so

1186
01:01:56,560 --> 01:01:58,640
Speaker 1: that at some point, hopefully in the next couple of months,

1187
01:01:58,760 --> 01:02:03,200
Speaker 1: we can have a bipartisan introduction. So so real quick,

1188
01:02:03,240 --> 01:02:06,440
Speaker 1: before we get into that, which is like the actual

1189
01:02:06,440 --> 01:02:09,360
Speaker 1: actions that are happening to make this a possible reality,

1190
01:02:09,400 --> 01:02:11,880
Speaker 1: I want to clarify one thing as far as the

1191
01:02:12,320 --> 01:02:16,960
Speaker 1: types of actions that this bill would a lot or

1192
01:02:17,040 --> 01:02:20,560
Speaker 1: would would create with the with the CRP program, the

1193
01:02:20,600 --> 01:02:23,920
Speaker 1: way that you know, to oversimplify that works with a landowner,

1194
01:02:24,120 --> 01:02:26,560
Speaker 1: let's say a farmer rancher. A farmer says, Okay, I'm

1195
01:02:26,560 --> 01:02:30,680
Speaker 1: gonna put these two acres of my land out of

1196
01:02:30,960 --> 01:02:35,160
Speaker 1: crop production and into crop reserve. It will be a

1197
01:02:35,160 --> 01:02:37,560
Speaker 1: contract of some number of years in which I can't

1198
01:02:37,560 --> 01:02:40,760
Speaker 1: plant corner beans. Instead, I will plant this grassland blend

1199
01:02:40,840 --> 01:02:44,280
Speaker 1: or whatever, and in compensation for that, the government pays

1200
01:02:44,320 --> 01:02:47,200
Speaker 1: me a certain amount of money, so that he makes

1201
01:02:47,240 --> 01:02:49,160
Speaker 1: money off of this land, just like he would if

1202
01:02:49,160 --> 01:02:52,320
Speaker 1: he was planning corn, but instead he's planting wildlife habitat. So,

1203
01:02:52,440 --> 01:02:56,320
Speaker 1: to oversimplify, that's the general gist of CRP. It sounds

1204
01:02:56,360 --> 01:03:01,040
Speaker 1: like with this it would not necessarily be like contracting

1205
01:03:01,120 --> 01:03:04,040
Speaker 1: land to come out of production. Instead, it's going to be, hey,

1206
01:03:04,080 --> 01:03:06,680
Speaker 1: we will pay you to do an action a habitat

1207
01:03:06,720 --> 01:03:10,160
Speaker 1: improvement of some kind of habitat improvement project of some

1208
01:03:10,240 --> 01:03:12,680
Speaker 1: kind of will give you X amount dollars for that action.

1209
01:03:13,080 --> 01:03:14,640
Speaker 1: Am I am I reading this right? Is that what

1210
01:03:14,680 --> 01:03:17,880
Speaker 1: you're describing here? Or will there also be more CRP

1211
01:03:17,920 --> 01:03:20,600
Speaker 1: program type things where they'll say, hey, we can also

1212
01:03:20,640 --> 01:03:23,840
Speaker 1: pay you to take this out of production and contracted

1213
01:03:23,840 --> 01:03:26,840
Speaker 1: into this type of deal as well? Is it? Which

1214
01:03:26,920 --> 01:03:32,400
Speaker 1: is that? Um? Your earlier assessment um to pay you

1215
01:03:32,440 --> 01:03:34,760
Speaker 1: for an action. I mean, most of these lands that

1216
01:03:34,800 --> 01:03:38,960
Speaker 1: we're looking at are currently not in a production or story,

1217
01:03:39,040 --> 01:03:41,919
Speaker 1: not in crop production ranching, yes, but would be able

1218
01:03:42,000 --> 01:03:45,840
Speaker 1: to maintain. The idea is to keep kind of establish

1219
01:03:45,880 --> 01:03:49,360
Speaker 1: what's already there. Now as we get a little further along, UM,

1220
01:03:49,520 --> 01:03:52,680
Speaker 1: could it be that the language does include if UM

1221
01:03:52,880 --> 01:03:57,479
Speaker 1: conversion vaccinative. That is a possibility. We just haven't haven't

1222
01:03:57,480 --> 01:04:00,400
Speaker 1: gotten to that point yet. Okay, that makes sense. So

1223
01:04:00,440 --> 01:04:04,760
Speaker 1: I'm a landowner, I ranch cattle, or I do whatever.

1224
01:04:05,560 --> 01:04:08,920
Speaker 1: This program would open up a pool of funds that

1225
01:04:09,040 --> 01:04:11,840
Speaker 1: I could then access potentially by doing good things for

1226
01:04:11,960 --> 01:04:14,720
Speaker 1: my land. So I'm you know, I'm a rancher, landowner.

1227
01:04:15,480 --> 01:04:18,160
Speaker 1: It's tight when it comes to money already. This is

1228
01:04:18,160 --> 01:04:21,040
Speaker 1: a way to buffer my bottom line, help me pay

1229
01:04:21,080 --> 01:04:24,200
Speaker 1: the bills, and also do something good for the land

1230
01:04:24,480 --> 01:04:26,920
Speaker 1: and the wildlife out there. That's what we're doing here

1231
01:04:27,000 --> 01:04:30,800
Speaker 1: right exactly. So if you're a landowner and you wanted

1232
01:04:30,840 --> 01:04:33,640
Speaker 1: to do some prescribe fire right like, you could then

1233
01:04:33,760 --> 01:04:39,160
Speaker 1: receive a NAGA grant the contract and you know, for

1234
01:04:39,240 --> 01:04:42,439
Speaker 1: fire management, and that would be paid for the good

1235
01:04:42,440 --> 01:04:47,400
Speaker 1: habitat improvement, probably improved improve the infrastructure of your ranch.

1236
01:04:47,560 --> 01:04:49,400
Speaker 1: You know you're not going to be set on fire.

1237
01:04:50,000 --> 01:04:53,040
Speaker 1: Everything's gonna look a lot better. So yes, broadly habitat

1238
01:04:53,080 --> 01:04:57,680
Speaker 1: improvement projects UM and as I mentioned to easements, So

1239
01:04:57,880 --> 01:05:01,120
Speaker 1: that's other another components. Now, do you to anticipate this

1240
01:05:01,400 --> 01:05:06,840
Speaker 1: being just UM accessible by large landowners or landowners that

1241
01:05:06,880 --> 01:05:10,640
Speaker 1: are currently in agriculture or is this something where somebody

1242
01:05:10,640 --> 01:05:14,080
Speaker 1: who lives in Kansas and owns two acres to hunt

1243
01:05:14,120 --> 01:05:16,640
Speaker 1: deer on would they possibly be able to access these

1244
01:05:16,640 --> 01:05:19,200
Speaker 1: grant funds to do improvements on their land like you're describing,

1245
01:05:19,240 --> 01:05:23,760
Speaker 1: like prescribe fire or something else. Sure. Yeah, we don't

1246
01:05:23,800 --> 01:05:27,200
Speaker 1: have any UM size states. I think it will be

1247
01:05:28,200 --> 01:05:31,160
Speaker 1: similar to KNAKA. The project will be ranked and selected

1248
01:05:31,760 --> 01:05:37,040
Speaker 1: accordingly UM, but there's no size limitation or restrictions. Cool

1249
01:05:37,600 --> 01:05:41,919
Speaker 1: torn from a white tail perspective, when you and Nick

1250
01:05:42,160 --> 01:05:45,480
Speaker 1: and anyone else in the team, Kip, who's who was

1251
01:05:45,520 --> 01:05:48,680
Speaker 1: looking at this project in this potential bill? When you

1252
01:05:48,720 --> 01:05:51,200
Speaker 1: look at this and you read through how would this

1253
01:05:51,280 --> 01:05:54,439
Speaker 1: impact deer and deer hunters? UM? And when you when

1254
01:05:54,440 --> 01:05:57,240
Speaker 1: we talk about you know, the language here and the

1255
01:05:57,280 --> 01:06:00,120
Speaker 1: projects that can help fund. Is there anything else that

1256
01:06:00,160 --> 01:06:02,040
Speaker 1: stood out to you, is is why this is a

1257
01:06:02,080 --> 01:06:04,080
Speaker 1: win for deer and deer hunters, why this is something

1258
01:06:04,120 --> 01:06:07,400
Speaker 1: you guys wanted to stand up for. Yeah, Mark as

1259
01:06:07,480 --> 01:06:10,240
Speaker 1: you as I think you said earlier, and it's accurate.

1260
01:06:10,440 --> 01:06:14,640
Speaker 1: Grasslands are like our most imperiled ecosystem on the continent,

1261
01:06:14,720 --> 01:06:17,760
Speaker 1: and so we're losing more grasslands than any other habitat

1262
01:06:17,800 --> 01:06:21,640
Speaker 1: type UM in North America. And so when you're losing

1263
01:06:22,080 --> 01:06:24,480
Speaker 1: that significant habitat of any type of habits a lot

1264
01:06:24,520 --> 01:06:26,520
Speaker 1: of something to concerned about. But when it's the habitat

1265
01:06:26,600 --> 01:06:30,680
Speaker 1: type that so deer across the country rely on, you know,

1266
01:06:30,720 --> 01:06:34,400
Speaker 1: it's certainly shows up large on our radar UM. And

1267
01:06:34,440 --> 01:06:38,840
Speaker 1: so the Act, as Bethany said, provides UM voluntary incentive

1268
01:06:38,880 --> 01:06:44,240
Speaker 1: based measures to help protect and conserve these resources. UM.

1269
01:06:44,280 --> 01:06:47,040
Speaker 1: It aligns perfectly with the work that we're doing on

1270
01:06:47,280 --> 01:06:50,720
Speaker 1: the thirty by thirty initiative, which I know you've covered, UM,

1271
01:06:50,760 --> 01:06:54,240
Speaker 1: which is to help conserve thirty of the nations lands

1272
01:06:54,280 --> 01:06:58,520
Speaker 1: and waters by UM. Again, it aligns really well with

1273
01:06:58,600 --> 01:07:01,560
Speaker 1: the climate work that we're doing. And then from just

1274
01:07:01,600 --> 01:07:05,080
Speaker 1: like a very much on the ground UM you know

1275
01:07:05,160 --> 01:07:08,760
Speaker 1: type habitat management work UM, as I said, earlier. These

1276
01:07:09,000 --> 01:07:11,880
Speaker 1: these lands are important to deer for both cover and forage.

1277
01:07:12,560 --> 01:07:16,720
Speaker 1: But it also incentivizes folks to use prescribed fire to

1278
01:07:17,160 --> 01:07:23,280
Speaker 1: remove in basive wood woody species UM from from these landscapes. UM.

1279
01:07:23,640 --> 01:07:27,400
Speaker 1: It incentivizes people who have a grasslands on their property

1280
01:07:27,440 --> 01:07:30,120
Speaker 1: to keep them as grasslands rather than convert them to

1281
01:07:30,880 --> 01:07:33,960
Speaker 1: you know, housing developments or or row crops or something

1282
01:07:34,000 --> 01:07:36,120
Speaker 1: like that. And so there's a lot of really cool

1283
01:07:36,640 --> 01:07:42,400
Speaker 1: UM provisions in the language UM, and it's sort of outlines,

1284
01:07:42,440 --> 01:07:46,480
Speaker 1: as Bethany said, projects are ranked, and so there the

1285
01:07:46,840 --> 01:07:52,120
Speaker 1: bill UM the reps UH councils and the like to

1286
01:07:52,560 --> 01:07:57,080
Speaker 1: sort of outline and prioritize different projects. But some of

1287
01:07:57,080 --> 01:08:00,840
Speaker 1: those priorities as I said, or prescribed fire, UM, invasive

1288
01:08:00,880 --> 01:08:06,520
Speaker 1: species management, restoration of crop land and especially marginal crop land,

1289
01:08:06,560 --> 01:08:10,000
Speaker 1: so the crop land that's not incredibly productive UM. And

1290
01:08:10,040 --> 01:08:13,760
Speaker 1: then areas that are are prioritized are those that provide

1291
01:08:13,920 --> 01:08:19,559
Speaker 1: significant ecological benefits or areas that provide habitat for at

1292
01:08:19,640 --> 01:08:22,519
Speaker 1: risk species. And so all these things are incredibly good

1293
01:08:22,800 --> 01:08:26,959
Speaker 1: on the ground incentives but UM which we're absolutely interested

1294
01:08:26,960 --> 01:08:29,920
Speaker 1: in and are incredibly important for deer. But from even

1295
01:08:29,960 --> 01:08:34,439
Speaker 1: a larger, sort of sky high perspective. This does so

1296
01:08:34,560 --> 01:08:37,719
Speaker 1: much more than just um local on the groundwork too.

1297
01:08:39,200 --> 01:08:41,400
Speaker 1: It seems like a no brainer. This seems like a

1298
01:08:41,400 --> 01:08:43,680
Speaker 1: wind win. This is a wind for animals, as a

1299
01:08:43,720 --> 01:08:47,400
Speaker 1: wind for the environment, This is a wind for ranchers

1300
01:08:47,400 --> 01:08:52,280
Speaker 1: and farmers and landowners. Uh So, as a average American citizen,

1301
01:08:52,560 --> 01:08:54,320
Speaker 1: I might be sitting here thinking, Man, this is a

1302
01:08:54,360 --> 01:08:56,760
Speaker 1: slam dunk. This should happen right away. Why aren't we

1303
01:08:56,800 --> 01:09:00,800
Speaker 1: doing it? Um? But I remember in fifth grade or

1304
01:09:01,000 --> 01:09:03,920
Speaker 1: second grade or whatever it was, I remember watching this

1305
01:09:04,040 --> 01:09:06,800
Speaker 1: film on the TV about I'm Just a Bill, and

1306
01:09:06,800 --> 01:09:10,479
Speaker 1: I'm sitting here on Capitol Hill, and I know there's

1307
01:09:10,520 --> 01:09:14,000
Speaker 1: a there's a whole lot of steps. Yeah, school Us Rock,

1308
01:09:14,240 --> 01:09:16,560
Speaker 1: There's a lot of steps the stand in the way

1309
01:09:16,720 --> 01:09:21,960
Speaker 1: from this seemingly good idea to someday being a reality. Uh, Bethany,

1310
01:09:22,080 --> 01:09:25,040
Speaker 1: can you can you take me to Capitol Hill? Can

1311
01:09:25,080 --> 01:09:27,800
Speaker 1: you walk with me on this bill to explain what

1312
01:09:28,200 --> 01:09:31,120
Speaker 1: where things stand right now and what has to happen

1313
01:09:31,200 --> 01:09:35,000
Speaker 1: for this to become reality? Sure? Um, I love the

1314
01:09:35,000 --> 01:09:39,479
Speaker 1: school House Rock reference. That's so good. Um. I mean,

1315
01:09:39,479 --> 01:09:41,360
Speaker 1: the first thing that we had to start with was

1316
01:09:41,439 --> 01:09:45,559
Speaker 1: a ground swell of interest, right, and so TORA and

1317
01:09:45,640 --> 01:09:49,840
Speaker 1: NDIA were very early partners that joined up with us

1318
01:09:49,880 --> 01:09:53,160
Speaker 1: in National Wildlife Federation. Hero was about conservation partnership that

1319
01:09:53,200 --> 01:09:55,360
Speaker 1: came together and said all right, we need to do something.

1320
01:09:55,760 --> 01:09:59,639
Speaker 1: And so we began UM building a coalition of people

1321
01:09:59,680 --> 01:10:01,960
Speaker 1: int been doing something for grasslands like a year and

1322
01:10:01,960 --> 01:10:04,680
Speaker 1: a half ago, or doing something more for grasslands, I

1323
01:10:04,680 --> 01:10:08,160
Speaker 1: should say. And we do have a website, it's www

1324
01:10:08,360 --> 01:10:11,240
Speaker 1: dot act for grasslands dot org where you can kind

1325
01:10:11,240 --> 01:10:13,519
Speaker 1: of keep track of our progress and some of the

1326
01:10:13,560 --> 01:10:16,920
Speaker 1: stuff that's spent out in the media. UM and so

1327
01:10:17,840 --> 01:10:20,639
Speaker 1: were you know, the first first step was to form

1328
01:10:20,680 --> 01:10:25,080
Speaker 1: this coalition, to get basically like a a union together

1329
01:10:25,360 --> 01:10:27,400
Speaker 1: of conservation groups that said, yes, we need to do

1330
01:10:27,439 --> 01:10:32,160
Speaker 1: this um TO, and to work through UM conversations with

1331
01:10:32,200 --> 01:10:34,280
Speaker 1: the agriculture and ranching community to say, okay, how do

1332
01:10:34,320 --> 01:10:36,160
Speaker 1: we do this so it really is compatible with what

1333
01:10:36,240 --> 01:10:38,639
Speaker 1: landowners want to do, like you know, because this isn't

1334
01:10:38,640 --> 01:10:42,920
Speaker 1: gonna function if it's not like and compatible and additive

1335
01:10:42,960 --> 01:10:45,640
Speaker 1: to a ranting operations. So got to make sure we

1336
01:10:45,720 --> 01:10:47,360
Speaker 1: got that wet. We've worked very hard to do that

1337
01:10:48,000 --> 01:10:51,280
Speaker 1: UM and then to start recruiting interest on Capitol Hill,

1338
01:10:51,600 --> 01:10:53,800
Speaker 1: and it depends on who you're talking to and where

1339
01:10:53,800 --> 01:10:58,599
Speaker 1: you're from. Like grasslands have um an appeal for different reasons.

1340
01:10:58,680 --> 01:11:02,160
Speaker 1: If you're an urbanite in interested in climate policy, there's

1341
01:11:02,160 --> 01:11:05,680
Speaker 1: the angle. If you're a rancher who um, you know,

1342
01:11:05,720 --> 01:11:09,920
Speaker 1: wants to make some infrastructure improvements to the ranch, um

1343
01:11:10,040 --> 01:11:13,920
Speaker 1: and m gonna get paid to do it, Like, that's

1344
01:11:13,920 --> 01:11:17,600
Speaker 1: the feeling. If you're conservationists like tornanized two groups like

1345
01:11:18,000 --> 01:11:20,639
Speaker 1: wild by habitat, there's your angles. So you start having

1346
01:11:21,040 --> 01:11:24,000
Speaker 1: different conversations in different ways with different members of Congress.

1347
01:11:24,439 --> 01:11:26,679
Speaker 1: We found that the Senate was a little more interested

1348
01:11:26,680 --> 01:11:29,760
Speaker 1: in this idea in the beginning. We do have some

1349
01:11:29,920 --> 01:11:32,879
Speaker 1: members of the House of Representatives that are interested, um,

1350
01:11:32,960 --> 01:11:35,760
Speaker 1: just for you know, the start. We've kind of put

1351
01:11:35,760 --> 01:11:40,000
Speaker 1: our energy into the Senate. So then we've got now

1352
01:11:40,040 --> 01:11:42,960
Speaker 1: we've got a legislative language that's pretty close to being

1353
01:11:42,960 --> 01:11:45,920
Speaker 1: ready to be introduced. We're working with members of the

1354
01:11:45,960 --> 01:11:50,719
Speaker 1: Senate to have a bipartisan introduction hopefully that will take place,

1355
01:11:50,960 --> 01:11:53,160
Speaker 1: you know, in the next month or two. And then

1356
01:11:53,200 --> 01:11:56,080
Speaker 1: we go through a process of recruiting co sponsors for

1357
01:11:56,120 --> 01:12:00,679
Speaker 1: the bill, getting a House Companion UM and then likely

1358
01:12:00,720 --> 01:12:04,000
Speaker 1: it would go through regular order, so it would be

1359
01:12:04,040 --> 01:12:07,240
Speaker 1: assigned to in the Senate Um Environment and Public Works

1360
01:12:07,240 --> 01:12:11,320
Speaker 1: Committee EPW gets the hearing gets voted out. Like I'm

1361
01:12:11,320 --> 01:12:13,519
Speaker 1: not gonna go through the whole Schoolhouse Rock process. But

1362
01:12:13,560 --> 01:12:16,320
Speaker 1: there are a lot of different steps. There are a

1363
01:12:16,320 --> 01:12:19,720
Speaker 1: lot of different stuffs, and there are different Sometimes the

1364
01:12:19,920 --> 01:12:22,799
Speaker 1: steps aren't so straightforward. It's not as linear as Schoolhouse

1365
01:12:22,920 --> 01:12:24,880
Speaker 1: Rock makes it down. It could be included in a

1366
01:12:24,920 --> 01:12:26,800
Speaker 1: bigger package at the end of the year. It say,

1367
01:12:26,880 --> 01:12:29,759
Speaker 1: for example, in the fall, there's a broad wildlife package

1368
01:12:29,760 --> 01:12:32,080
Speaker 1: that comes together, Well, this could be part of it.

1369
01:12:32,520 --> 01:12:34,880
Speaker 1: So we've got a lot of different plays, and we

1370
01:12:35,000 --> 01:12:37,120
Speaker 1: keep watching to see kind of how things are trending

1371
01:12:37,120 --> 01:12:40,240
Speaker 1: in which way we can go. UM. I will say

1372
01:12:40,280 --> 01:12:43,479
Speaker 1: that what we've been very careful about doing at this

1373
01:12:43,520 --> 01:12:48,080
Speaker 1: point is that we aren't asking our members to take

1374
01:12:48,120 --> 01:12:51,000
Speaker 1: action on things when there's not really an actionable item.

1375
01:12:51,479 --> 01:12:53,400
Speaker 1: And so in September earlier this year, we had a

1376
01:12:53,400 --> 01:12:55,600
Speaker 1: call to action for people to call their member of

1377
01:12:55,640 --> 01:12:58,240
Speaker 1: Congress and tell them they wanted in a North American

1378
01:12:58,240 --> 01:13:04,320
Speaker 1: Grasslands Conservation Act. That was wildly successful. UM. We had

1379
01:13:04,360 --> 01:13:06,320
Speaker 1: many members of the outstand and send it right us

1380
01:13:06,360 --> 01:13:08,120
Speaker 1: back and say okay, we hear you. You know, how

1381
01:13:08,120 --> 01:13:10,960
Speaker 1: do we engage on this concept um And we haven't

1382
01:13:11,000 --> 01:13:13,360
Speaker 1: issued another call to action sense then, because we want

1383
01:13:13,400 --> 01:13:17,160
Speaker 1: to make sure that we are respectful um of our

1384
01:13:17,200 --> 01:13:21,280
Speaker 1: membership time and energy, and we don't want people making

1385
01:13:21,280 --> 01:13:23,280
Speaker 1: a call when there's not really a time to move

1386
01:13:23,360 --> 01:13:27,320
Speaker 1: the needle. So if you, if our members are you

1387
01:13:27,320 --> 01:13:30,200
Speaker 1: know that our communications say you know, the time is now,

1388
01:13:30,680 --> 01:13:32,960
Speaker 1: pick up the phone, make a call, send an email,

1389
01:13:33,000 --> 01:13:34,880
Speaker 1: it's because the time really is now, and there might

1390
01:13:34,920 --> 01:13:37,320
Speaker 1: be more than one inflection point there probably will, but

1391
01:13:37,360 --> 01:13:38,800
Speaker 1: we're not going to ask people to pick up the

1392
01:13:38,800 --> 01:13:40,160
Speaker 1: phone or make a call and it's not really a

1393
01:13:40,240 --> 01:13:42,200
Speaker 1: time to do so, and we won't do things. It's

1394
01:13:42,240 --> 01:13:46,679
Speaker 1: just you know, clip bait, like trying to scare people

1395
01:13:46,760 --> 01:13:49,120
Speaker 1: or entice people into doing something when you know, we

1396
01:13:49,200 --> 01:13:53,000
Speaker 1: as lobbyists and and government affairs experts like no, like

1397
01:13:53,200 --> 01:13:54,800
Speaker 1: this isn't a real threat. But if it is a

1398
01:13:54,800 --> 01:13:56,479
Speaker 1: real threat, or if it is a real time to move,

1399
01:13:56,520 --> 01:14:00,320
Speaker 1: we're gonna let you know it is a just as

1400
01:14:00,400 --> 01:14:03,680
Speaker 1: a citizen, Bethanie, like just as a regular person, like

1401
01:14:03,720 --> 01:14:06,200
Speaker 1: take off your job hat and put on your just

1402
01:14:06,280 --> 01:14:09,160
Speaker 1: ham an American hat, and you care about wild places

1403
01:14:09,200 --> 01:14:15,000
Speaker 1: and wild animals, how do you go about vetting those things?

1404
01:14:15,040 --> 01:14:17,240
Speaker 1: Because you just described a situation I think a lot

1405
01:14:17,280 --> 01:14:19,800
Speaker 1: of people are in these days, which is we get

1406
01:14:19,840 --> 01:14:22,439
Speaker 1: a million emails from all sorts of different groups. If

1407
01:14:22,640 --> 01:14:25,000
Speaker 1: if we're tapped into this world, we we hear about

1408
01:14:25,040 --> 01:14:30,080
Speaker 1: a thousand different threats in problems, and and many of

1409
01:14:30,080 --> 01:14:33,240
Speaker 1: them are real and true and concerning. But how do

1410
01:14:33,400 --> 01:14:38,400
Speaker 1: you individually sort through all this? How do you choose

1411
01:14:38,439 --> 01:14:41,000
Speaker 1: what to take action on and what is important versus

1412
01:14:41,040 --> 01:14:43,880
Speaker 1: what heck isn't important enough. I'm just curious, like, being

1413
01:14:43,880 --> 01:14:46,720
Speaker 1: a person who also works in this world, how have

1414
01:14:46,840 --> 01:14:48,720
Speaker 1: you gone about trying to figure that out? Because I

1415
01:14:48,760 --> 01:14:51,639
Speaker 1: worry about you know, the issue fatigue and people kind

1416
01:14:51,640 --> 01:14:54,240
Speaker 1: of like the boy that cried Wolf effect happening, and

1417
01:14:54,280 --> 01:14:57,080
Speaker 1: eventually people just stop paying attention or we get so

1418
01:14:57,120 --> 01:14:58,920
Speaker 1: sick and tired of the bad news that we just

1419
01:14:59,000 --> 01:15:01,880
Speaker 1: turned to video game games are basketball games or whatever?

1420
01:15:02,560 --> 01:15:06,519
Speaker 1: How do you deal with that? Yeah, well that's been

1421
01:15:06,880 --> 01:15:09,000
Speaker 1: a really important thing for us, is to make sure

1422
01:15:09,040 --> 01:15:12,000
Speaker 1: that our credibility right, like our credibility with our memberships,

1423
01:15:12,040 --> 01:15:14,760
Speaker 1: like we don't use scare tactics and we don't ask

1424
01:15:14,760 --> 01:15:18,040
Speaker 1: people to do things when they can't really move the needle.

1425
01:15:18,120 --> 01:15:21,320
Speaker 1: And that it really comes down to just like we

1426
01:15:21,400 --> 01:15:25,160
Speaker 1: have people in the ground, myself and my colleagues, UM

1427
01:15:25,200 --> 01:15:28,000
Speaker 1: and touring his colleagues and others in the conservation community

1428
01:15:28,040 --> 01:15:31,040
Speaker 1: that are here. We are tracking this stuff in real time.

1429
01:15:31,200 --> 01:15:34,000
Speaker 1: We are having the conversations with Stash on Capitol Hill,

1430
01:15:34,080 --> 01:15:37,799
Speaker 1: like you're reading the tea leaves every single day, and

1431
01:15:37,840 --> 01:15:39,840
Speaker 1: then we kind of make an assessment like is this

1432
01:15:39,880 --> 01:15:42,320
Speaker 1: gonna move? Is this does this have real traction? I mean,

1433
01:15:42,400 --> 01:15:44,400
Speaker 1: you see a lot of different things. It's not that

1434
01:15:44,439 --> 01:15:47,880
Speaker 1: these meetings or conversations aren't taking place, but you really

1435
01:15:47,960 --> 01:15:50,240
Speaker 1: kind of have to have just a gut instinct on

1436
01:15:50,320 --> 01:15:54,960
Speaker 1: like does this really have momentum too to happen or

1437
01:15:54,960 --> 01:15:59,160
Speaker 1: to inflict harm or change, And then you just have

1438
01:15:59,240 --> 01:16:02,120
Speaker 1: to use your professional assessment and say, okay, yeah, this

1439
01:16:02,200 --> 01:16:04,160
Speaker 1: is this is really a thing that's going to happen.

1440
01:16:04,200 --> 01:16:06,080
Speaker 1: We need our members to pick up the zone now.

1441
01:16:06,560 --> 01:16:09,360
Speaker 1: And if we're like no this, you know, sure this

1442
01:16:10,600 --> 01:16:13,519
Speaker 1: bill was introduced, but it's really not going anywhere, and

1443
01:16:13,560 --> 01:16:17,080
Speaker 1: then we can make that a confident assessment. Then we

1444
01:16:17,120 --> 01:16:19,519
Speaker 1: don't ask our members to call to action like we don't.

1445
01:16:19,960 --> 01:16:22,400
Speaker 1: We don't use clickbait and be like be afraid now,

1446
01:16:22,560 --> 01:16:25,320
Speaker 1: Like we just don't think that's fair and it fatigues people,

1447
01:16:25,600 --> 01:16:27,759
Speaker 1: it really does. That was a good word. Um, So

1448
01:16:27,920 --> 01:16:31,519
Speaker 1: we're be've been very cautious as a group at a

1449
01:16:31,560 --> 01:16:34,840
Speaker 1: coalition that's working towards this offer. It to make sure

1450
01:16:34,880 --> 01:16:38,559
Speaker 1: that we communicate authentically, um, and only when you know

1451
01:16:38,600 --> 01:16:41,200
Speaker 1: there's real progress or really something happening, so that we

1452
01:16:41,240 --> 01:16:44,120
Speaker 1: don't fatigue our members, and that we maintain our trust

1453
01:16:44,200 --> 01:16:46,080
Speaker 1: level with the people that are following us and and

1454
01:16:46,240 --> 01:16:49,160
Speaker 1: really want to help us and engage. Now, what about

1455
01:16:49,200 --> 01:16:52,320
Speaker 1: for just people like me just sitting here at home

1456
01:16:52,680 --> 01:16:55,240
Speaker 1: who get these emails and to hear these calls to action?

1457
01:16:55,320 --> 01:16:58,759
Speaker 1: And you know, what's your recommendation for the average American

1458
01:16:58,800 --> 01:17:01,160
Speaker 1: author who's trying to just id Like, how do I

1459
01:17:01,240 --> 01:17:03,639
Speaker 1: make sense of all these different things coming down the line?

1460
01:17:04,040 --> 01:17:06,680
Speaker 1: Which ones do I take action on? When is it

1461
01:17:06,720 --> 01:17:09,280
Speaker 1: important to take action? I mean, should we try to

1462
01:17:09,280 --> 01:17:11,400
Speaker 1: tackle every single thing we hear about or do we

1463
01:17:11,400 --> 01:17:13,840
Speaker 1: need to pick and choose? Like what's your if you

1464
01:17:13,840 --> 01:17:17,240
Speaker 1: have any advice for just the average person who's caring

1465
01:17:17,240 --> 01:17:20,200
Speaker 1: about these things and wants to help but sometimes feels

1466
01:17:20,200 --> 01:17:22,360
Speaker 1: overwhelmed or feels like I don't know how to make

1467
01:17:22,360 --> 01:17:25,080
Speaker 1: a difference. I can try them and hear too bad

1468
01:17:25,120 --> 01:17:27,760
Speaker 1: to me if if that's all right? But um, Mark,

1469
01:17:27,800 --> 01:17:30,479
Speaker 1: I think it comes down to finding an organization that

1470
01:17:30,760 --> 01:17:33,320
Speaker 1: you just align with and that you trust. And so

1471
01:17:33,880 --> 01:17:36,920
Speaker 1: if you go to the coalition website to Act for

1472
01:17:37,000 --> 01:17:40,160
Speaker 1: Grassman dot org website, you'll see all of the groups

1473
01:17:40,160 --> 01:17:44,439
Speaker 1: that have formally endorsed this legislation. And one thing that's

1474
01:17:44,439 --> 01:17:46,240
Speaker 1: really cool to me is the broad range of groups

1475
01:17:46,280 --> 01:17:48,880
Speaker 1: on there. And so there are some names that absolutely

1476
01:17:48,880 --> 01:17:52,120
Speaker 1: makes sense, um or that folks listening to this podcast

1477
01:17:52,160 --> 01:17:54,040
Speaker 1: would know, and then there's some groups that they probably

1478
01:17:54,080 --> 01:17:57,760
Speaker 1: wouldn't and who aren't historically, um you know, in this

1479
01:17:57,880 --> 01:18:01,360
Speaker 1: sort of hunting conservation space. We've all worked incredibly well

1480
01:18:01,400 --> 01:18:03,840
Speaker 1: together to get this back to where it is. But

1481
01:18:04,479 --> 01:18:06,760
Speaker 1: um you know some of the names, of course, we're

1482
01:18:06,800 --> 01:18:09,080
Speaker 1: on there in Pheasants, Quail Forever, back Country Hunters and

1483
01:18:09,120 --> 01:18:14,360
Speaker 1: Anglers have endorsed tr CP, ISAAC Walton League, National Wildlife Federation,

1484
01:18:14,479 --> 01:18:16,559
Speaker 1: and others. Those are just some that you know your

1485
01:18:16,560 --> 01:18:19,400
Speaker 1: listeners are probably familiar with it. I think it's finding

1486
01:18:19,439 --> 01:18:22,559
Speaker 1: an organization that that you align with and that you

1487
01:18:22,560 --> 01:18:27,800
Speaker 1: you trust. And so our coalition, UM, this sort of

1488
01:18:28,000 --> 01:18:31,559
Speaker 1: has two meetings. We have a meeting that happens weekly,

1489
01:18:32,360 --> 01:18:35,600
Speaker 1: UM was sort of the policy folks that uh, you know,

1490
01:18:35,840 --> 01:18:37,479
Speaker 1: update each other on things that are going on in

1491
01:18:37,479 --> 01:18:40,360
Speaker 1: the hill and any movement and next steps and outreach

1492
01:18:40,360 --> 01:18:42,080
Speaker 1: and all that sort of stuff. But then there's also

1493
01:18:42,760 --> 01:18:46,320
Speaker 1: a communications meeting where the communications staff from each of

1494
01:18:46,320 --> 01:18:51,160
Speaker 1: our organizations meet and sort of um strategize how we're

1495
01:18:51,160 --> 01:18:54,320
Speaker 1: talking about this and when it's necessary to take action

1496
01:18:54,439 --> 01:18:57,760
Speaker 1: and so UM every step that we make with this

1497
01:18:57,840 --> 01:19:01,719
Speaker 1: is deliberate and thought of aught out for those reasons

1498
01:19:01,720 --> 01:19:03,759
Speaker 1: is that we don't want to fatigue our members across

1499
01:19:03,800 --> 01:19:07,120
Speaker 1: the board and so uh, you're not going to hear

1500
01:19:07,160 --> 01:19:09,960
Speaker 1: from any one of our individual organizations until it's really

1501
01:19:10,000 --> 01:19:13,440
Speaker 1: go time. And I can speak for the Deer Association,

1502
01:19:13,560 --> 01:19:16,639
Speaker 1: but Lindsay Thomas, who has been on your your show

1503
01:19:16,720 --> 01:19:21,200
Speaker 1: multiple times, Mark is uh, he runs a type communications

1504
01:19:21,240 --> 01:19:24,120
Speaker 1: ship here at the Deer Association, And so you are

1505
01:19:24,200 --> 01:19:28,200
Speaker 1: not going to see anything, UM, especially on the federal

1506
01:19:28,280 --> 01:19:30,559
Speaker 1: level or anything that goes out to our FO membership

1507
01:19:30,640 --> 01:19:34,000
Speaker 1: unless it's it's important and it's go time and so

1508
01:19:34,280 --> 01:19:36,800
Speaker 1: UM that's how it's just how we operate, and I

1509
01:19:36,800 --> 01:19:39,240
Speaker 1: think that's how a lot of the other organizations operate

1510
01:19:39,320 --> 01:19:43,639
Speaker 1: to including Bethanese Group, is that we're very cognizant of

1511
01:19:44,040 --> 01:19:47,400
Speaker 1: UM the fatigue that's going on, or cognizant of not

1512
01:19:47,439 --> 01:19:52,080
Speaker 1: cluttering in boxes. And so for listeners, you know, I

1513
01:19:52,160 --> 01:19:54,000
Speaker 1: get that you get this stuff coming in from a

1514
01:19:54,000 --> 01:19:57,200
Speaker 1: lot of different organizations, but I think it just comes

1515
01:19:57,200 --> 01:20:00,519
Speaker 1: down to finding that one organization that that you feel

1516
01:20:00,560 --> 01:20:02,960
Speaker 1: really good about, or finding the two or three that

1517
01:20:03,000 --> 01:20:05,559
Speaker 1: you feel really good about, uh, and that you trust

1518
01:20:05,600 --> 01:20:07,639
Speaker 1: them that when you're getting something from them that it's

1519
01:20:07,680 --> 01:20:10,200
Speaker 1: really important, that it's really time time to take action.

1520
01:20:10,400 --> 01:20:15,120
Speaker 1: And there is UM a place to take action on

1521
01:20:15,240 --> 01:20:18,559
Speaker 1: the actor Graphs and dot org web website. When you

1522
01:20:18,600 --> 01:20:20,559
Speaker 1: get to the website, just click to take action tab

1523
01:20:20,600 --> 01:20:23,400
Speaker 1: and there is a populated form there. And while we're

1524
01:20:23,439 --> 01:20:26,880
Speaker 1: not actively pushing that right now, that form is there

1525
01:20:26,920 --> 01:20:29,920
Speaker 1: if you feel so desired to take action and to

1526
01:20:30,040 --> 01:20:34,120
Speaker 1: let your lawmakers know that you support this effort. Yeah,

1527
01:20:34,479 --> 01:20:38,160
Speaker 1: would you add anything to that bessiny. I think tour

1528
01:20:38,240 --> 01:20:41,639
Speaker 1: and Summarize do very well. Um. And we are broadly

1529
01:20:41,760 --> 01:20:45,799
Speaker 1: and it's not just related to conservation, like so many

1530
01:20:45,840 --> 01:20:51,599
Speaker 1: different media blasts, and I mean we communicate all the time,

1531
01:20:51,680 --> 01:20:54,800
Speaker 1: all day. We're messaged on like every single thing that's

1532
01:20:54,800 --> 01:20:57,080
Speaker 1: going on in the world, and it's just built overwhelming.

1533
01:20:57,120 --> 01:20:59,120
Speaker 1: It's like, oh my gosh, Like what problem do I

1534
01:20:59,160 --> 01:21:02,519
Speaker 1: pick to get involved with? Like it's not just related

1535
01:21:02,800 --> 01:21:05,760
Speaker 1: to conservation, It's related to everything. And I think myself

1536
01:21:05,920 --> 01:21:09,240
Speaker 1: is just a citizen, Like I just don't even know

1537
01:21:09,280 --> 01:21:11,639
Speaker 1: where to get worried sometimes. And I live and work

1538
01:21:11,800 --> 01:21:15,320
Speaker 1: in Washington, Um, but I am zeroed in on conservation policy.

1539
01:21:15,479 --> 01:21:17,240
Speaker 1: So like with my family calls you like what's going

1540
01:21:17,280 --> 01:21:19,240
Speaker 1: on with like healthcare, I'm like, I have no clue.

1541
01:21:19,600 --> 01:21:22,360
Speaker 1: I don't follow it, Like I'm zeroed in on a

1542
01:21:22,520 --> 01:21:27,439
Speaker 1: very specific niche um. And I think that's kind of

1543
01:21:27,479 --> 01:21:30,200
Speaker 1: what I would relay to members too, is like find

1544
01:21:30,200 --> 01:21:33,320
Speaker 1: your niche, like or the listeners, Like, you know, if

1545
01:21:33,320 --> 01:21:37,640
Speaker 1: it's grasslands policy, um, you know, follow your trusted organization

1546
01:21:37,720 --> 01:21:41,439
Speaker 1: that really focuses on grasslands. If it's fisheries, you're probably

1547
01:21:41,439 --> 01:21:45,520
Speaker 1: gonna be looking at different organizations and news sources. But

1548
01:21:45,600 --> 01:21:47,559
Speaker 1: you know, I personally just kind of have to filter

1549
01:21:48,200 --> 01:21:53,000
Speaker 1: my areas of concern or of conservation concern um, because

1550
01:21:53,040 --> 01:22:00,120
Speaker 1: it is really broad. Yeah, uh so wrapping things is

1551
01:22:00,160 --> 01:22:03,559
Speaker 1: up here. Then you've mentioned that, you know, there was

1552
01:22:03,600 --> 01:22:05,680
Speaker 1: a period a year, year and a half ago or

1553
01:22:05,760 --> 01:22:07,640
Speaker 1: whatever it was when we were kind of putting this

1554
01:22:07,720 --> 01:22:10,880
Speaker 1: coalition of supporters together that you had to get some

1555
01:22:10,960 --> 01:22:14,240
Speaker 1: action going. But the bill has not been introduced yet,

1556
01:22:14,479 --> 01:22:17,200
Speaker 1: and I know it's important not to push people to

1557
01:22:17,280 --> 01:22:21,040
Speaker 1: action until it's really go time. Uh. Where where do

1558
01:22:21,080 --> 01:22:23,920
Speaker 1: we stand, like how soon until go time? Bethany? And

1559
01:22:24,520 --> 01:22:26,960
Speaker 1: what should we be waiting for or what should we

1560
01:22:27,040 --> 01:22:29,639
Speaker 1: be doing now? Um? If there is something we can

1561
01:22:29,680 --> 01:22:32,160
Speaker 1: do now, what what should the listeners be paying attention

1562
01:22:32,200 --> 01:22:37,600
Speaker 1: to or doing? Sure? Um? Well, you know, as I

1563
01:22:37,600 --> 01:22:41,880
Speaker 1: said earlier, there's many paths, um. I think the most

1564
01:22:42,040 --> 01:22:47,280
Speaker 1: likely is a Senate bill introduction sometime this spring. I

1565
01:22:47,360 --> 01:22:50,080
Speaker 1: can't give you or we can't give you an exact

1566
01:22:50,160 --> 01:22:54,599
Speaker 1: date because we don't know. Um. Probably again that all change,

1567
01:22:54,640 --> 01:22:57,400
Speaker 1: but my projection would be that you'll you'll hear from

1568
01:22:57,640 --> 01:23:01,200
Speaker 1: many of our POLISHIP members about a bill announcement sometime

1569
01:23:01,280 --> 01:23:04,600
Speaker 1: in the spring. UM, that would be our goal, and

1570
01:23:04,640 --> 01:23:07,080
Speaker 1: then the next step would be recruitment, and that would

1571
01:23:07,080 --> 01:23:10,040
Speaker 1: be the active step I think UM for our members,

1572
01:23:10,040 --> 01:23:12,920
Speaker 1: it's like, okay, now we have a bill introduced, we're

1573
01:23:12,920 --> 01:23:15,960
Speaker 1: going to ask you to contact your senator and to

1574
01:23:16,280 --> 01:23:18,360
Speaker 1: join the bills in order, in other words, to become

1575
01:23:18,360 --> 01:23:22,360
Speaker 1: a co sponsor. I perceived those as the next step,

1576
01:23:22,880 --> 01:23:26,560
Speaker 1: UM touring you that you're what your crystal ball is

1577
01:23:26,600 --> 01:23:32,599
Speaker 1: telling you to. Yeah, I think that's spot on. UM.

1578
01:23:32,640 --> 01:23:36,200
Speaker 1: We as best any said Senator Widen has really taken

1579
01:23:36,200 --> 01:23:38,280
Speaker 1: the lead on this and we're sort of waiting to

1580
01:23:38,320 --> 01:23:42,040
Speaker 1: see how it plays out with UM original co sponsors

1581
01:23:42,040 --> 01:23:46,840
Speaker 1: and sponsors to you know, get this introduced. But once

1582
01:23:46,880 --> 01:23:49,519
Speaker 1: that happened, it's go time. And so we will be

1583
01:23:49,560 --> 01:23:53,439
Speaker 1: asking folks to contact their senators UM to ask them

1584
01:23:53,479 --> 01:23:57,439
Speaker 1: to join the legislation and then move it through committee

1585
01:23:57,439 --> 01:23:59,639
Speaker 1: and ultimately to the Senate floor, and then from there

1586
01:23:59,640 --> 01:24:01,920
Speaker 1: we'll will tackle the House. And we do have UM

1587
01:24:02,080 --> 01:24:04,160
Speaker 1: pretty good support in the House already too, and so

1588
01:24:04,360 --> 01:24:07,400
Speaker 1: that would likely be you know, a secondary effort UM.

1589
01:24:07,680 --> 01:24:10,679
Speaker 1: But right now we're really just focused on by getting

1590
01:24:10,680 --> 01:24:13,439
Speaker 1: it introduced in the Senate this spring and then making

1591
01:24:14,000 --> 01:24:17,600
Speaker 1: headway in the Senate. So then in that case, it

1592
01:24:17,720 --> 01:24:20,439
Speaker 1: sounds like the most important thing that we as the

1593
01:24:20,520 --> 01:24:23,760
Speaker 1: listeners can do is just make sure that we're connected

1594
01:24:24,040 --> 01:24:26,839
Speaker 1: to a group like the National Deer Association or Pheasants

1595
01:24:26,880 --> 01:24:29,920
Speaker 1: Forever and making sure that we're on your news list

1596
01:24:30,400 --> 01:24:33,519
Speaker 1: so that when this happens, you will be able to

1597
01:24:33,520 --> 01:24:37,400
Speaker 1: tell us, Hey, it's been introduced. Now it's go time.

1598
01:24:37,400 --> 01:24:38,840
Speaker 1: Am I right on? That is that the number one

1599
01:24:38,840 --> 01:24:40,599
Speaker 1: thing we should do right now is make sure everybody

1600
01:24:40,640 --> 01:24:43,519
Speaker 1: listening is signed up for one of your groups news

1601
01:24:43,560 --> 01:24:45,400
Speaker 1: lists so that we can get the call to action

1602
01:24:45,439 --> 01:24:49,280
Speaker 1: when the time's right. Yeah, that's the best. That's the

1603
01:24:49,280 --> 01:24:50,960
Speaker 1: best for us too. And so we put out our

1604
01:24:51,000 --> 01:24:54,960
Speaker 1: weekly newsletter and then on big items, um and like

1605
01:24:55,080 --> 01:24:56,960
Speaker 1: this one, when it is good time, we'll send a

1606
01:24:57,000 --> 01:25:01,519
Speaker 1: separate action or email to everybody that signed up. Perfect. Well,

1607
01:25:01,560 --> 01:25:04,519
Speaker 1: that's easy, everyone listening. This is the easiest action I've

1608
01:25:04,680 --> 01:25:07,040
Speaker 1: ever asked for. Just sign up for a newsletter. This

1609
01:25:07,160 --> 01:25:11,439
Speaker 1: is great. Um. I appreciate you guys walking us through this.

1610
01:25:11,560 --> 01:25:14,080
Speaker 1: I appreciate you helping us kind of connect the dots

1611
01:25:14,120 --> 01:25:18,639
Speaker 1: between this this landscape back to the things that we love. UM,

1612
01:25:18,680 --> 01:25:21,000
Speaker 1: I'm glad to see that there's something coming down the

1613
01:25:21,040 --> 01:25:23,040
Speaker 1: pipeline that's going to help put more of this ground

1614
01:25:23,040 --> 01:25:25,880
Speaker 1: out there and keep it healthy and intact and able

1615
01:25:25,920 --> 01:25:29,439
Speaker 1: to support wildlife populations. This is uh, this is good stuff.

1616
01:25:29,479 --> 01:25:33,680
Speaker 1: So uh, Bethany, do you have any closing thoughts? Are you?

1617
01:25:33,720 --> 01:25:35,719
Speaker 1: Are you good to go? Yeah? It's want to thanks

1618
01:25:36,160 --> 01:25:39,000
Speaker 1: thank you for inviting us on and sharing this concept

1619
01:25:39,040 --> 01:25:41,920
Speaker 1: with your listeners. And uh, I would ask for folks

1620
01:25:41,920 --> 01:25:45,760
Speaker 1: to just please uh stay tuned and and follow this

1621
01:25:46,040 --> 01:25:48,400
Speaker 1: effort as it moves and when we ask for your help,

1622
01:25:48,479 --> 01:25:50,880
Speaker 1: we very much appreciate if you'd pick up the phone

1623
01:25:50,920 --> 01:25:54,639
Speaker 1: and call your member of Congress excellent and torn any

1624
01:25:54,720 --> 01:25:57,800
Speaker 1: last thoughts from you? No, I agreed, Thank you for

1625
01:25:57,840 --> 01:26:02,080
Speaker 1: the platform. Mark, You're always always willing to tackle sort

1626
01:26:02,120 --> 01:26:05,439
Speaker 1: of these big conservation issues that aren't always or at

1627
01:26:05,520 --> 01:26:08,760
Speaker 1: least outwardly don't always direct Um. It seemed to be

1628
01:26:08,800 --> 01:26:11,760
Speaker 1: directly tied to the hunting and the hunting strategy that

1629
01:26:11,880 --> 01:26:14,720
Speaker 1: you typically talk about. But it's important that we have

1630
01:26:14,760 --> 01:26:18,479
Speaker 1: these conversations and that its hunters and outdoor enthusiasts and

1631
01:26:18,520 --> 01:26:21,439
Speaker 1: conservationists that we are engaged, you know, in the back

1632
01:26:21,560 --> 01:26:24,200
Speaker 1: end on on these policy initiatives. So I appreciate that.

1633
01:26:24,280 --> 01:26:27,519
Speaker 1: And the same thing, um, once you do get those

1634
01:26:27,520 --> 01:26:30,200
Speaker 1: auction items, whether that's from the NBA or Pheasants or

1635
01:26:30,560 --> 01:26:33,760
Speaker 1: from any of the other organizations, we really appreciate you

1636
01:26:34,240 --> 01:26:37,400
Speaker 1: taken action it. It does make a difference, um when

1637
01:26:37,439 --> 01:26:39,240
Speaker 1: you submit that form. And I know it's such an

1638
01:26:39,240 --> 01:26:42,559
Speaker 1: easy task and it seems so simple that it doesn't

1639
01:26:42,560 --> 01:26:44,600
Speaker 1: always seem like you actually make the difference, but it

1640
01:26:44,760 --> 01:26:49,280
Speaker 1: does perfect well, Uh, Torn Bethany, thank you as well.

1641
01:26:49,320 --> 01:26:52,000
Speaker 1: I appreciate this is this has been interesting for me.

1642
01:26:52,080 --> 01:26:54,719
Speaker 1: I'm excited to see where this goes and uh hopefully

1643
01:26:54,760 --> 01:26:58,760
Speaker 1: we'll have some good news to discuss uh later this year,

1644
01:26:58,880 --> 01:27:01,559
Speaker 1: next year, or however long it takes. So so thank

1645
01:27:01,600 --> 01:27:04,920
Speaker 1: you for doing the good work. All right, that's it.

1646
01:27:05,760 --> 01:27:08,639
Speaker 1: Thank you for tuning in. I appreciate it. I think

1647
01:27:08,640 --> 01:27:12,599
Speaker 1: we now know, um, we now know our our action,

1648
01:27:13,000 --> 01:27:15,040
Speaker 1: we know our our our orders. We know we gotta

1649
01:27:15,080 --> 01:27:17,519
Speaker 1: do we gotta stay tuned, we gotta keep our ears

1650
01:27:17,560 --> 01:27:20,200
Speaker 1: to the ground so that when this thing is ready

1651
01:27:20,200 --> 01:27:22,519
Speaker 1: to get out there, when this thing's hitting the pavement,

1652
01:27:22,600 --> 01:27:24,760
Speaker 1: we can make some noise about it. We can call

1653
01:27:24,760 --> 01:27:28,240
Speaker 1: our representatives, our senators, our congressmen and women. We can

1654
01:27:28,400 --> 01:27:31,559
Speaker 1: sign the petitions, we can leave the comments, we can

1655
01:27:31,600 --> 01:27:34,320
Speaker 1: send the emails. Whatever we gotta do to make sure

1656
01:27:34,360 --> 01:27:37,519
Speaker 1: that we can keep more grassland habitat out there, we

1657
01:27:37,560 --> 01:27:40,280
Speaker 1: can do it. So appreciate you listening to this. I

1658
01:27:40,320 --> 01:27:42,640
Speaker 1: appreciate you all being a part of a community that

1659
01:27:42,720 --> 01:27:46,400
Speaker 1: makes a difference. We're not just hunters. Were advocates for

1660
01:27:46,439 --> 01:27:49,120
Speaker 1: these animals and for these places, and that is a

1661
01:27:49,200 --> 01:27:52,600
Speaker 1: powerful and pretty special thing. So I'm proud to be

1662
01:27:52,640 --> 01:27:55,599
Speaker 1: standing side by side with all of you and uh

1663
01:27:55,680 --> 01:27:57,960
Speaker 1: making sure that deer hunters give back just as much

1664
01:27:58,000 --> 01:28:00,200
Speaker 1: as we take. That's what it's all about. Friends, I'll

1665
01:28:00,280 --> 01:28:02,920
Speaker 1: appreciate it. Have a great day, a great week, a

1666
01:28:03,000 --> 01:28:08,240
Speaker 1: great weekend, and until next time, stay wired to hunk

1667
01:28:14,160 --> 01:28:14,200
Speaker 1: M