1 00:00:15,356 --> 00:00:23,516 Speaker 1: Pushkin. In the archives of UCLA's Library, there is a 2 00:00:23,556 --> 00:00:27,236 Speaker 1: remarkable seven hour interview conducted in nineteen eighty eight with 3 00:00:27,316 --> 00:00:35,076 Speaker 1: a woman named Helen slote Leavitt, along with a separate 4 00:00:35,156 --> 00:00:41,196 Speaker 1: interview with Helen's husband, Al Lovitt, each conversation spanning an 5 00:00:41,196 --> 00:00:45,756 Speaker 1: extraordinary period, the Great Depression, the Second World War, the 6 00:00:45,756 --> 00:00:47,956 Speaker 1: Cold War, the Civil rights movement. 7 00:00:49,796 --> 00:00:52,796 Speaker 2: What I'd like you to start with is your biographical background, 8 00:00:52,996 --> 00:00:55,956 Speaker 2: when and where you were born, your parents or family, 9 00:00:55,956 --> 00:00:56,436 Speaker 2: et cetera. 10 00:00:58,436 --> 00:01:07,116 Speaker 3: Fine, my roots are solidly middle class Jewish Brooklyn, out 11 00:01:07,156 --> 00:01:07,716 Speaker 3: of Poland. 12 00:01:09,316 --> 00:01:13,116 Speaker 1: The interviews were conducted by the historian Larry Sepplayer over 13 00:01:13,116 --> 00:01:16,196 Speaker 1: the course of many months. He remembers the Levits well, 14 00:01:16,596 --> 00:01:22,756 Speaker 1: particularly Helen, petite, intense, alive, but in some sense wounded. 15 00:01:24,036 --> 00:01:26,476 Speaker 4: It was an interesting interview because when I first approached 16 00:01:26,476 --> 00:01:30,556 Speaker 4: them they said no, you know, they were justifiably, I think, 17 00:01:30,636 --> 00:01:34,916 Speaker 4: wary of people coming to ask them questions, the answers 18 00:01:34,916 --> 00:01:37,156 Speaker 4: to which they had refused to give to other people. 19 00:01:38,036 --> 00:01:39,476 Speaker 4: So I made a deal with them. I said I'd 20 00:01:39,516 --> 00:01:42,436 Speaker 4: send them five questions through the mail, and then they 21 00:01:42,436 --> 00:01:44,396 Speaker 4: could look them over. If they thought those were legitimate. 22 00:01:44,436 --> 00:01:46,836 Speaker 4: We could talk on the phone they would answer them, 23 00:01:47,156 --> 00:01:50,036 Speaker 4: which they did, and they came to trust me. You 24 00:01:50,036 --> 00:01:53,956 Speaker 4: know that I wasn't someone who was going to betray 25 00:01:53,996 --> 00:01:54,636 Speaker 4: them in any way. 26 00:01:55,636 --> 00:01:59,476 Speaker 1: The Levitts had their reasons for not trusting outsiders, as 27 00:01:59,516 --> 00:02:00,036 Speaker 1: you will hear. 28 00:02:01,556 --> 00:02:03,836 Speaker 4: They are you know, you know, the just termed Starker. 29 00:02:04,716 --> 00:02:08,516 Speaker 4: It means strong, you know, kind of tough, you don't 30 00:02:08,596 --> 00:02:12,556 Speaker 4: let things than bowl you over. They were Starker's Helen, 31 00:02:12,596 --> 00:02:14,036 Speaker 4: probably even a little bit more than al. 32 00:02:14,156 --> 00:02:18,636 Speaker 1: I think Larry Seplaire's conversation with Helen levitt is a 33 00:02:18,636 --> 00:02:24,276 Speaker 1: masterclass and interviewing technique. Careful, persistent, unflinching, always with the 34 00:02:24,356 --> 00:02:27,996 Speaker 1: sense that there is something he's trying to uncover. I 35 00:02:28,076 --> 00:02:30,836 Speaker 1: interview people for a living as well, but I could 36 00:02:30,876 --> 00:02:34,636 Speaker 1: not have sat so patiently with Helen Lovitt for that long. 37 00:02:39,636 --> 00:02:42,876 Speaker 1: My name is Malcolm Gladwell. You're listening to Revisionist History, 38 00:02:43,156 --> 00:02:48,596 Speaker 1: my podcast about things overlooked and misunderstood. In this episode, 39 00:02:49,156 --> 00:02:52,916 Speaker 1: I want to do something simple. Play you selections from 40 00:02:52,956 --> 00:02:59,716 Speaker 1: Helen Levitt's interview. I want you to listen to her 41 00:02:59,756 --> 00:03:04,076 Speaker 1: story in her words and here as I did, about 42 00:03:04,116 --> 00:03:06,836 Speaker 1: a crucial decision she and her husband made when they 43 00:03:06,836 --> 00:03:10,076 Speaker 1: were young. At the end, I want you to judge 44 00:03:10,116 --> 00:03:14,116 Speaker 1: her and decide whether she deserved her fate. Since we 45 00:03:14,196 --> 00:03:16,156 Speaker 1: seem to be doing a fair amount of this these days, 46 00:03:16,716 --> 00:03:19,916 Speaker 1: judging people for the things they say and believe, I 47 00:03:19,916 --> 00:03:31,636 Speaker 1: thought it would be a useful exercise. Helen grew up 48 00:03:31,836 --> 00:03:34,516 Speaker 1: in the Crown Heights neighborhood of Brooklyn, in a house 49 00:03:34,556 --> 00:03:37,356 Speaker 1: on the corner of Carroll Street and Kingston Avenue. 50 00:03:37,836 --> 00:03:43,396 Speaker 3: My paternal grandfather went to parochial high school and then 51 00:03:43,476 --> 00:03:48,356 Speaker 3: to med school and became a doctor, as did my father. 52 00:03:48,956 --> 00:03:55,076 Speaker 1: Helen was a precocious child, alert, intelligent. She remembers as 53 00:03:55,116 --> 00:03:57,476 Speaker 1: a kid reading a charity appeal in the New York 54 00:03:57,476 --> 00:04:00,476 Speaker 1: Times New York's one hundred Neediest Cases. 55 00:04:01,516 --> 00:04:07,116 Speaker 3: They gave an each day or each week, actual cases 56 00:04:07,436 --> 00:04:13,876 Speaker 3: of poor ring people, and I never missed reading every 57 00:04:13,916 --> 00:04:18,996 Speaker 3: one of those cases, and I agonized as I read them. 58 00:04:19,556 --> 00:04:21,876 Speaker 1: Once she went to a birthday party for a wealthy 59 00:04:21,916 --> 00:04:25,956 Speaker 1: friend of hers, held at the Brooklyn Hebrew Orphan Asylum. 60 00:04:26,116 --> 00:04:31,796 Speaker 3: So here, all we little rich kids went to this terrible, dreary, 61 00:04:31,916 --> 00:04:35,116 Speaker 3: Dickens like place, and the show was put on, and 62 00:04:35,156 --> 00:04:37,276 Speaker 3: all of the laworphins were brought in they could watch 63 00:04:37,316 --> 00:04:39,516 Speaker 3: the show, and then all of the orphans were led 64 00:04:39,556 --> 00:04:42,836 Speaker 3: away down these dark walls, and there was a horror 65 00:04:42,876 --> 00:04:45,116 Speaker 3: to it that never left me. 66 00:04:45,996 --> 00:04:48,476 Speaker 1: She was a child of the nineteen thirties, when the 67 00:04:48,516 --> 00:04:51,796 Speaker 1: grand experiment that was America suddenly turned bleak. 68 00:04:53,836 --> 00:04:57,356 Speaker 2: Did the depression have much of an impact on your family? 69 00:04:57,436 --> 00:05:02,196 Speaker 3: Oh? Yeah, My father was just this devastated. 70 00:05:02,916 --> 00:05:07,596 Speaker 1: His medical practice suffered, patients stopped paying, his investments were 71 00:05:07,596 --> 00:05:08,156 Speaker 1: wiped out. 72 00:05:09,116 --> 00:05:13,156 Speaker 3: The prohibition was over. I know he was selling liquor 73 00:05:13,236 --> 00:05:15,196 Speaker 3: prescriptions to the druggists across the street. 74 00:05:17,876 --> 00:05:19,836 Speaker 2: Was your father a political person at all? 75 00:05:20,316 --> 00:05:23,156 Speaker 3: Yes, he was what you'd call a parlor pink. He 76 00:05:23,196 --> 00:05:26,476 Speaker 3: and his friend Harry Silver would fight the revolution in 77 00:05:26,556 --> 00:05:30,516 Speaker 3: our living room. They would have these vile and political 78 00:05:30,556 --> 00:05:35,756 Speaker 3: discussion and the women who would sit there so disgusted 79 00:05:35,876 --> 00:05:38,996 Speaker 3: because these two guys couldn't make a decent living and 80 00:05:38,996 --> 00:05:42,876 Speaker 3: here they were talking about changing the world. But I 81 00:05:42,996 --> 00:05:47,836 Speaker 3: realized fairly recently and looking back, that those two guys 82 00:05:47,916 --> 00:05:50,756 Speaker 3: were doing that for my benefit, because they knew that 83 00:05:50,796 --> 00:05:52,916 Speaker 3: there was one person in that room who was listening, 84 00:05:53,716 --> 00:05:54,316 Speaker 3: and that was me. 85 00:05:55,796 --> 00:06:00,476 Speaker 1: Helen listened as a teenager. She was a junior counselor 86 00:06:00,596 --> 00:06:01,916 Speaker 1: at her summer camp. 87 00:06:01,916 --> 00:06:05,836 Speaker 3: And my new friend Ayes came to camp. She was beautiful, 88 00:06:06,516 --> 00:06:09,876 Speaker 3: and she got these incredible love letters from my radical 89 00:06:10,476 --> 00:06:13,516 Speaker 3: boyfriend in New York that she would let me read. 90 00:06:13,596 --> 00:06:17,996 Speaker 3: They were just so romantic and political. She took me 91 00:06:18,156 --> 00:06:21,436 Speaker 3: to meet him on a night that he was making 92 00:06:21,436 --> 00:06:25,036 Speaker 3: a speech from a soapbox in Manhattan. That was where 93 00:06:25,516 --> 00:06:29,356 Speaker 3: I was exposed to the Young Communists. 94 00:06:30,796 --> 00:06:34,756 Speaker 1: The Young Communist League, the Weisiel, the youth branch of 95 00:06:34,796 --> 00:06:39,516 Speaker 1: the American Communist Party. Nobody recruited Helen. She just walked 96 00:06:39,596 --> 00:06:44,316 Speaker 1: up and volunteered. In the thirties, the Young Communist League 97 00:06:44,316 --> 00:06:48,636 Speaker 1: of America had thousands of members. The WEISIL branch in 98 00:06:48,676 --> 00:06:52,196 Speaker 1: New York was a world unto itself, filled with ideas 99 00:06:52,196 --> 00:06:55,276 Speaker 1: and passion. They were people going hungry all over the 100 00:06:55,396 --> 00:06:58,916 Speaker 1: United States, an ongoing moral catastrophe in the American South, 101 00:06:59,236 --> 00:07:02,356 Speaker 1: a vicious war in Spain against fascism, not to mention 102 00:07:02,516 --> 00:07:06,636 Speaker 1: Hitler's rise in Germany. Americans were looking for answers, and 103 00:07:06,756 --> 00:07:10,356 Speaker 1: many found them in the world's biggest communist empire, the 104 00:07:10,396 --> 00:07:11,196 Speaker 1: Soviet Union. 105 00:07:12,116 --> 00:07:17,596 Speaker 3: I found it unfairness of life, unbearable and assumed that God, 106 00:07:17,636 --> 00:07:21,236 Speaker 3: if it were fixable, how wonderful. And the fact that 107 00:07:21,276 --> 00:07:25,956 Speaker 3: there was a country, the Soviet Union, which was really 108 00:07:25,996 --> 00:07:28,876 Speaker 3: trying to fix it, seemed quite marvelous to me. 109 00:07:32,916 --> 00:07:35,156 Speaker 5: But the first time as I stepped on Soviet soil, 110 00:07:35,676 --> 00:07:39,836 Speaker 5: I felt myself a full human being, a full human being. 111 00:07:40,276 --> 00:07:44,076 Speaker 1: The Black American actor and singer Paul Robson, then, at 112 00:07:44,116 --> 00:07:46,676 Speaker 1: the height of his fame, made a pilgrimage to the 113 00:07:46,676 --> 00:07:49,836 Speaker 1: mecca of Communism and said, for the first time in 114 00:07:49,876 --> 00:07:52,876 Speaker 1: my life, I walk in full human dignity. 115 00:07:53,516 --> 00:07:56,796 Speaker 3: The people who were doing things really out there fighting 116 00:07:57,396 --> 00:07:59,916 Speaker 3: the good fight with the uncommunists. 117 00:08:00,396 --> 00:08:04,596 Speaker 1: Helen was now attending Brooklyn College, volunteering in a rat 118 00:08:04,716 --> 00:08:08,956 Speaker 1: infested building for the YCL, making sandwiches that the branch 119 00:08:09,236 --> 00:08:10,116 Speaker 1: sell to pay the rent. 120 00:08:10,796 --> 00:08:12,676 Speaker 3: After I would get out of the kitchen, the rats 121 00:08:12,716 --> 00:08:14,276 Speaker 3: would take over and I could see them. 122 00:08:15,276 --> 00:08:18,356 Speaker 1: Helen met al Levitt at summer camp. He was from 123 00:08:18,356 --> 00:08:21,476 Speaker 1: the Bronx. He wanted to be a writer. He followed 124 00:08:21,476 --> 00:08:23,996 Speaker 1: her into the YCL. They got married and moved to 125 00:08:24,036 --> 00:08:27,516 Speaker 1: Los Angeles, had two kids, lived up in the Hollywood Hills. 126 00:08:28,116 --> 00:08:31,716 Speaker 1: All wrote for the movies and television. Social parables like 127 00:08:31,756 --> 00:08:34,876 Speaker 1: the nineteen forty eight Technicolor film The Boy with the 128 00:08:34,916 --> 00:08:35,476 Speaker 1: Green Hair. 129 00:08:36,596 --> 00:08:41,196 Speaker 6: Everywhere you go people will say, they will say, there 130 00:08:41,236 --> 00:08:44,796 Speaker 6: is the boy with a green hair, and then people 131 00:08:44,836 --> 00:08:50,276 Speaker 6: will ask why does he have green hair? So you 132 00:08:50,316 --> 00:08:55,196 Speaker 6: will tell them because I am a war orphan, and 133 00:08:55,236 --> 00:08:58,516 Speaker 6: my green hair is to remind you that war is 134 00:08:58,716 --> 00:09:02,676 Speaker 6: very bad for children who must tell all the people. 135 00:09:03,156 --> 00:09:07,996 Speaker 1: Helen helped found a nonprofit theater in Hollywood, volunteered ran things. 136 00:09:09,316 --> 00:09:12,396 Speaker 3: Has been that way. It's always been somebody asked me 137 00:09:12,436 --> 00:09:16,316 Speaker 3: to do something, you know, I did it, and I 138 00:09:16,356 --> 00:09:20,036 Speaker 3: always did much more than was asked with me. That 139 00:09:20,236 --> 00:09:21,956 Speaker 3: was the story of my life. 140 00:09:23,876 --> 00:09:26,596 Speaker 1: While I was listening to Helen Levitt's story of how 141 00:09:26,636 --> 00:09:29,236 Speaker 1: she came to join the Communist Party, I couldn't help 142 00:09:29,236 --> 00:09:32,156 Speaker 1: but think of myself at eighteen, the age that she 143 00:09:32,356 --> 00:09:35,516 Speaker 1: was when she entered the movement. I just started college. 144 00:09:35,836 --> 00:09:38,276 Speaker 1: It was the early eighties. I had a poster of 145 00:09:38,356 --> 00:09:41,076 Speaker 1: Ronald Reagan on my wall. If you asked me what 146 00:09:41,156 --> 00:09:44,076 Speaker 1: I was back then, I would have said I was 147 00:09:44,116 --> 00:09:47,996 Speaker 1: an anti communist. That was my cause. The Soviet Union 148 00:09:48,236 --> 00:09:49,956 Speaker 1: had just invaded Afghanistan. 149 00:09:50,476 --> 00:09:53,676 Speaker 7: The Afghan defenders and the Russian attackers fought bitterly for 150 00:09:53,716 --> 00:09:57,436 Speaker 7: almost four hours, and according to the Afghan source, casualties 151 00:09:57,436 --> 00:09:58,916 Speaker 7: on both sides were heavy. 152 00:09:59,316 --> 00:10:01,876 Speaker 1: It was holding much of Eastern Europe hostage. 153 00:10:02,036 --> 00:10:04,716 Speaker 8: Poland, now under martial law, is sealed off from the 154 00:10:04,756 --> 00:10:08,996 Speaker 8: outside world. Britain, America and other Western nations are watching closely. 155 00:10:09,716 --> 00:10:12,476 Speaker 8: The Soviet Union A party wasn't involved, but from the 156 00:10:12,476 --> 00:10:14,196 Speaker 8: background they approved. 157 00:10:14,556 --> 00:10:17,596 Speaker 1: This summer after my sophomore year, I did a journalism 158 00:10:17,636 --> 00:10:20,596 Speaker 1: internship in Washington, d C. Where we were required to 159 00:10:20,636 --> 00:10:24,116 Speaker 1: do a research project. Mine was on how many people 160 00:10:24,156 --> 00:10:27,796 Speaker 1: had been killed by communism. I spent the summer in 161 00:10:27,836 --> 00:10:30,756 Speaker 1: the Library of Congress trying to track down who was 162 00:10:30,876 --> 00:10:34,756 Speaker 1: killed in what government manufactured famine or who died in 163 00:10:34,796 --> 00:10:41,836 Speaker 1: what interment camp. I was horrified. Helen Levitt got caught 164 00:10:41,916 --> 00:10:44,436 Speaker 1: up in the communist movement at the same age I 165 00:10:44,476 --> 00:10:47,436 Speaker 1: got caught up in the anti communist movement, and for 166 00:10:47,476 --> 00:10:50,196 Speaker 1: the same reason, because eighteen is the age that we 167 00:10:50,236 --> 00:10:53,836 Speaker 1: look for a cause bigger than ourselves. It's funny. I 168 00:10:53,836 --> 00:10:55,876 Speaker 1: haven't thought about that time in my life for years, 169 00:10:56,556 --> 00:10:59,916 Speaker 1: except when I listened to Helen Levitt and it all 170 00:10:59,956 --> 00:11:00,836 Speaker 1: came rushing back. 171 00:11:01,796 --> 00:11:07,316 Speaker 3: The brightest and the most beautiful were leading the young radicals. 172 00:11:07,356 --> 00:11:10,716 Speaker 3: I mean they were the most lesling figures on campus. 173 00:11:11,236 --> 00:11:14,596 Speaker 3: They were the most brilliant professors, no question about it. 174 00:11:14,876 --> 00:11:18,796 Speaker 3: The only courses that I remember were taught by Marxist professors. 175 00:11:20,716 --> 00:11:24,076 Speaker 1: I asked you at the beginning to judge her, So next, 176 00:11:25,036 --> 00:11:46,676 Speaker 1: let's judge her. 177 00:11:50,516 --> 00:11:52,876 Speaker 3: An you seek, where would they be? 178 00:11:54,516 --> 00:11:55,236 Speaker 8: Did she used me a. 179 00:11:55,156 --> 00:11:56,076 Speaker 3: Little bit of us? 180 00:11:59,636 --> 00:12:02,556 Speaker 1: The leader of the Soviet Union from the late nineteen 181 00:12:02,556 --> 00:12:07,116 Speaker 1: twenties to nineteen fifty three was Joseph Stalin. He embarked 182 00:12:07,156 --> 00:12:12,956 Speaker 1: on an aggressive course of nationalation. He collectivized agriculture. Millions 183 00:12:12,996 --> 00:12:16,716 Speaker 1: of peasants were forced off their land. In the early thirties, 184 00:12:16,996 --> 00:12:21,516 Speaker 1: agricultural areas like Ukraine were devastated by famine, caused in 185 00:12:21,636 --> 00:12:26,276 Speaker 1: large part by Stalin's policies. Five to seven million people died. 186 00:12:27,076 --> 00:12:30,436 Speaker 1: He established the Gulag, a network of prison camps through 187 00:12:30,476 --> 00:12:33,596 Speaker 1: which eighteen million people were held at one time or another. 188 00:12:34,396 --> 00:12:36,756 Speaker 1: In the years that the Young Communist League was serving 189 00:12:36,836 --> 00:12:39,996 Speaker 1: sandwiches in New York City, Stalin launched something called the 190 00:12:39,996 --> 00:12:45,236 Speaker 1: Great Purge. Seven hundred thousand people were murdered in August 191 00:12:45,316 --> 00:12:48,476 Speaker 1: of nineteen thirty nine, Stalin signed a non aggression pact 192 00:12:48,476 --> 00:12:49,036 Speaker 1: with Hitler. 193 00:12:49,556 --> 00:12:51,716 Speaker 5: We have reached the serious events of the week. Van 194 00:12:51,796 --> 00:12:55,556 Speaker 5: Ribentrop leaving Berlin for Moscow ushers in a new, incomprehensible 195 00:12:55,636 --> 00:12:58,676 Speaker 5: chapter in German diplomacy. What has happened to the principles 196 00:12:58,716 --> 00:13:01,876 Speaker 5: of Maine Camp? Equally, what can Russia have in common 197 00:13:01,876 --> 00:13:02,436 Speaker 5: with Germany? 198 00:13:03,596 --> 00:13:06,836 Speaker 1: The hero of the idealists back in Brooklyn had made 199 00:13:06,836 --> 00:13:11,356 Speaker 1: a deal with a monster. The historian Larry Sepplier interviewed 200 00:13:11,396 --> 00:13:14,396 Speaker 1: many American Communists from those years, and he told me 201 00:13:14,676 --> 00:13:18,476 Speaker 1: their unwavering support for Stalin always bothered. 202 00:13:18,236 --> 00:13:20,956 Speaker 4: Him again and again, even from people who I thought 203 00:13:20,956 --> 00:13:26,196 Speaker 4: were really incredibly intelligent people. Their main answer was, we 204 00:13:26,276 --> 00:13:29,236 Speaker 4: thought the party leaders knew better, We thought they had 205 00:13:29,276 --> 00:13:31,676 Speaker 4: more information, that they were a little more sophisticated in 206 00:13:31,676 --> 00:13:36,276 Speaker 4: their reasoning, and so we went along. That always threw me. 207 00:13:36,356 --> 00:13:40,596 Speaker 4: I mean, I'm still to this day don't really find 208 00:13:40,636 --> 00:13:41,276 Speaker 4: it convincing. 209 00:13:41,996 --> 00:13:44,796 Speaker 1: When the Levitts moved to Los Angeles, they joined the 210 00:13:44,796 --> 00:13:48,276 Speaker 1: Hollywood branch of the Communist Party. The way Helen Levitt 211 00:13:48,276 --> 00:13:50,636 Speaker 1: talks about it, she makes it sound like a glorified 212 00:13:50,716 --> 00:13:52,876 Speaker 1: social club. It wasn't. 213 00:13:53,716 --> 00:13:56,596 Speaker 4: They had various branches, and they would get their orders, 214 00:13:56,676 --> 00:14:00,556 Speaker 4: as it were, from the county, usually filters from New York. 215 00:14:01,196 --> 00:14:05,356 Speaker 1: How closely was the National Party under the control of, 216 00:14:05,516 --> 00:14:08,636 Speaker 1: or in communication with, the Soviet Union in those years. 217 00:14:08,556 --> 00:14:13,276 Speaker 4: Complete complete control. The Party couldn't do anything that the 218 00:14:13,316 --> 00:14:16,036 Speaker 4: people in Moscow would disapprove of, and when they did, 219 00:14:16,436 --> 00:14:19,076 Speaker 4: they were rapidly brought into line. 220 00:14:19,916 --> 00:14:24,516 Speaker 1: Meanwhile, Stalin's policies were not exactly a secret. The purges, 221 00:14:24,636 --> 00:14:27,556 Speaker 1: the famine, the pact with Hitler, the show trials, the 222 00:14:27,596 --> 00:14:31,076 Speaker 1: concentration camps. There were plenty of people in the United 223 00:14:31,116 --> 00:14:35,396 Speaker 1: States appalled by what was happening in the USSR, just 224 00:14:35,436 --> 00:14:38,556 Speaker 1: not the members of the Hollywood branch of the Communist Party. 225 00:14:39,356 --> 00:14:42,716 Speaker 1: At one point, Larry Sepplair asked Helen Levitt if she 226 00:14:42,756 --> 00:14:46,316 Speaker 1: would have considered herself a Stalinist through this whole era. 227 00:14:46,916 --> 00:14:48,716 Speaker 1: She said, of course. 228 00:14:49,396 --> 00:14:54,036 Speaker 3: The general attitude we took in terms of any attacks 229 00:14:54,076 --> 00:14:59,836 Speaker 3: against the Soviet Union was that the establishment here had 230 00:14:59,916 --> 00:15:05,836 Speaker 3: so much at stake to undermine any success in the 231 00:15:05,876 --> 00:15:12,636 Speaker 3: Soviet Union that you couldn't believe anything justified everything. The 232 00:15:12,716 --> 00:15:18,116 Speaker 3: Nazi Soviet fact did not bother us. We really trusted 233 00:15:18,196 --> 00:15:20,596 Speaker 3: Stalin that he knew what he was doing. 234 00:15:21,516 --> 00:15:26,436 Speaker 1: Stalin died in nineteen fifty three. His successor, Nikita Krushev, 235 00:15:26,836 --> 00:15:30,996 Speaker 1: famously denounced him in nineteen fifty six. After that, it 236 00:15:31,076 --> 00:15:35,396 Speaker 1: was impossible to maintain the fiction that Stalin was anything 237 00:15:35,556 --> 00:15:39,996 Speaker 1: except one of the twentieth century's bloodiest dictators. Only then 238 00:15:40,396 --> 00:15:42,556 Speaker 1: did the Communist Party in Hollywood fade away? 239 00:15:43,196 --> 00:15:45,636 Speaker 2: Why did you leave the Communist Party? Was that stoudible? 240 00:15:45,716 --> 00:15:50,756 Speaker 3: Oh, it just disappeared after the Khrushchiev whatever, the Krushev. 241 00:15:50,356 --> 00:15:53,516 Speaker 2: Report, the secret so called secret speech, whatever. 242 00:15:53,756 --> 00:15:57,636 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, the party just disappeared in Hollywood. We 243 00:15:57,716 --> 00:16:00,756 Speaker 3: didn't leave formally as that saying, you know, we're leaving 244 00:16:00,836 --> 00:16:03,996 Speaker 3: because there was no party. It just overnight it disappeared. 245 00:16:04,676 --> 00:16:11,516 Speaker 2: Did you feel embarrassed having supported the Soviet We've seen no. 246 00:16:13,636 --> 00:16:16,916 Speaker 1: Keep in mind Larry's Sepplayer and hell Novitt are talking 247 00:16:16,956 --> 00:16:20,436 Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty eight, during the final chaotic years of 248 00:16:20,476 --> 00:16:24,956 Speaker 1: the USSR, when many Russians felt embarrassed about having supported 249 00:16:24,996 --> 00:16:31,356 Speaker 1: the Soviet Union, not hell Nod. There's a famous picture 250 00:16:31,436 --> 00:16:34,396 Speaker 1: taken at the Yalta conference in nineteen forty five, where 251 00:16:34,396 --> 00:16:37,556 Speaker 1: the Allies met to play the end of the War, Churchill, 252 00:16:38,076 --> 00:16:42,076 Speaker 1: FDR and Stalin sitting in a row. As a teenager 253 00:16:42,196 --> 00:16:47,036 Speaker 1: in my anti communist phase, I was fixated on that photograph. Churchill, 254 00:16:47,236 --> 00:16:52,396 Speaker 1: the greatest of all British wartime leaders, looks grumpy and indomitable. Roosevelt, 255 00:16:52,556 --> 00:16:56,156 Speaker 1: who created the modern American state, is thin and drawn. 256 00:16:56,876 --> 00:16:59,716 Speaker 1: He will be dead instid of a few months. Then 257 00:17:00,316 --> 00:17:03,836 Speaker 1: there's Stalin on the end, in full Soviet Army dress, 258 00:17:04,196 --> 00:17:06,876 Speaker 1: looking straight at the camera, with a trace of a 259 00:17:06,916 --> 00:17:10,876 Speaker 1: smile below his thick mustache. All I could think was, 260 00:17:11,436 --> 00:17:15,116 Speaker 1: what's so funny? Why is he smiling? How could the 261 00:17:15,116 --> 00:17:19,636 Speaker 1: others put up with him? I thought of that photograph 262 00:17:19,676 --> 00:17:22,636 Speaker 1: again when I listened to Helen Levitt rhapsodized about the 263 00:17:22,676 --> 00:17:26,556 Speaker 1: glories of her Communists past. She looked at those three men, 264 00:17:26,916 --> 00:17:30,596 Speaker 1: and she cast her lot with the paranoid, homicidal jackass 265 00:17:30,636 --> 00:17:34,636 Speaker 1: on the end. And why because she mistakenly thought that 266 00:17:34,676 --> 00:17:37,436 Speaker 1: the way to deal with the world's injustices was to 267 00:17:37,516 --> 00:17:41,316 Speaker 1: line up behind a monster. In seven hours of talking 268 00:17:41,356 --> 00:17:46,036 Speaker 1: with Larry Sepplair, Helen Levitt never once comes to terms 269 00:17:46,036 --> 00:17:50,236 Speaker 1: with the consequences of her beliefs. No remorse, no regrets 270 00:17:50,276 --> 00:17:55,876 Speaker 1: nothing about her heavy days at Brooklyn College except nostalgia. 271 00:17:58,156 --> 00:18:01,476 Speaker 3: Young people who were on the campus who did not 272 00:18:01,556 --> 00:18:06,996 Speaker 3: get involved, either with the young Communists or the Young Socialists, 273 00:18:08,476 --> 00:18:12,596 Speaker 3: weren't enough because it was heavy stuff. I mean Angles 274 00:18:13,036 --> 00:18:16,236 Speaker 3: and even Lenin. I mean Marx is impossible to read, 275 00:18:16,236 --> 00:18:19,996 Speaker 3: but Angles was comprehensible but very well. It was a 276 00:18:20,116 --> 00:18:23,316 Speaker 3: challenge to read. But I was very impressed with Angles 277 00:18:23,356 --> 00:18:30,076 Speaker 3: and Lenin. They both were extraordinary minds and incredible writers. 278 00:18:30,596 --> 00:18:32,836 Speaker 3: A young people who didn't get in either didn't have 279 00:18:32,916 --> 00:18:37,796 Speaker 3: the intellectual capacity while the courage. 280 00:18:40,196 --> 00:18:42,796 Speaker 1: As I listened to the interview, this is the moment 281 00:18:42,836 --> 00:18:47,076 Speaker 1: that hit me, the sheer arrogance of it. But then 282 00:18:47,116 --> 00:18:51,316 Speaker 1: I kept listening to the rest of her story. In 283 00:18:51,396 --> 00:18:54,756 Speaker 1: nineteen forty seven, the Cold War between the USSR and 284 00:18:54,996 --> 00:18:58,276 Speaker 1: US had just begun. A large chunk of Germany and 285 00:18:58,316 --> 00:19:02,756 Speaker 1: Eastern Europe was under Soviet control. British Prime Minister Winston 286 00:19:02,836 --> 00:19:08,156 Speaker 1: Churchill sounded a warning that would instantly become famous. 287 00:19:09,156 --> 00:19:14,876 Speaker 9: Jordan has descended across the continent behind that line by 288 00:19:15,036 --> 00:19:19,116 Speaker 9: all the capitals of the ancient states of Central and 289 00:19:19,236 --> 00:19:20,036 Speaker 9: Eastern Europe. 290 00:19:21,196 --> 00:19:24,596 Speaker 1: The hunt for communists within the United States became an obsession, 291 00:19:25,236 --> 00:19:26,716 Speaker 1: starting with Hollywood. 292 00:19:27,316 --> 00:19:30,596 Speaker 7: This committee, under its mandate from the House of Representatives, 293 00:19:31,396 --> 00:19:36,876 Speaker 7: has the responsibility of exposing and spotlightings diversive ailments wherever 294 00:19:36,916 --> 00:19:37,636 Speaker 7: they may exist. 295 00:19:38,436 --> 00:19:43,516 Speaker 1: In nineteen forty seven, the House Unamerican Activities Committee held hearings. 296 00:19:44,116 --> 00:19:46,996 Speaker 7: It is only to be expected that Communists would strive 297 00:19:47,076 --> 00:19:51,836 Speaker 7: desperately to gain entry to the motion picture industry, simply 298 00:19:51,876 --> 00:19:56,076 Speaker 7: because the industry offers such a tremendous weapon for education 299 00:19:56,356 --> 00:19:57,276 Speaker 7: and propaganda. 300 00:19:57,876 --> 00:20:01,276 Speaker 1: Screenwriters and movie stars who were suspected of once being 301 00:20:01,356 --> 00:20:05,156 Speaker 1: members of the Communist Party were called to testify. Those 302 00:20:05,196 --> 00:20:09,076 Speaker 1: who refused went to prison. Anyone suspected of Communist time 303 00:20:09,156 --> 00:20:12,716 Speaker 1: eyes were blacklisted. It was all but impossible for them 304 00:20:12,716 --> 00:20:15,876 Speaker 1: to work in show business under their own names. The 305 00:20:15,996 --> 00:20:18,036 Speaker 1: Levitts saw their friends get caught up in the witch 306 00:20:18,116 --> 00:20:21,996 Speaker 1: hunt one by one, and then one day the witch 307 00:20:22,036 --> 00:20:23,796 Speaker 1: hunt came for them. 308 00:20:23,996 --> 00:20:27,676 Speaker 3: You know, things were really going along very nicely. I say, 309 00:20:27,676 --> 00:20:29,356 Speaker 3: it was a kind of jolly life. 310 00:20:29,956 --> 00:20:32,796 Speaker 1: It was nineteen fifty one. Helen had just had a baby, 311 00:20:32,876 --> 00:20:36,636 Speaker 1: their second, a daughter. They had a housekeeper and a nurse. 312 00:20:37,276 --> 00:20:40,196 Speaker 1: Her husband, Al was a rising star in Hollywood. 313 00:20:40,596 --> 00:20:44,916 Speaker 3: And then when they came to the door with the subpoena. 314 00:20:45,036 --> 00:20:46,956 Speaker 3: Was kind of a cold chill, because I knew it 315 00:20:46,996 --> 00:20:47,516 Speaker 3: was all over. 316 00:20:48,676 --> 00:20:51,316 Speaker 2: Now, was this a subpoena to appear publicly? 317 00:20:51,476 --> 00:20:53,436 Speaker 3: Orcipino peer publicly? 318 00:20:53,476 --> 00:20:54,156 Speaker 2: In Washington. 319 00:20:54,876 --> 00:20:57,996 Speaker 1: Both the Levitts were called to testify. They were asked 320 00:20:58,036 --> 00:21:01,436 Speaker 1: about their Communist affiliations. They were forced to take the 321 00:21:01,476 --> 00:21:04,796 Speaker 1: fifth al Levitt had a statement prepared for his appearance 322 00:21:04,836 --> 00:21:08,156 Speaker 1: that day. He read it decades later to Larry Sepplair. 323 00:21:09,116 --> 00:21:12,236 Speaker 10: Every man has the right to be unpopular, or even 324 00:21:12,316 --> 00:21:17,876 Speaker 10: to be wrong, without suffering the consequence of official censure, blacklist, 325 00:21:17,996 --> 00:21:21,676 Speaker 10: or a jail. Most peace loving people will find themselves 326 00:21:21,716 --> 00:21:26,156 Speaker 10: unpopular with this committee. I do not therefore intend to 327 00:21:26,276 --> 00:21:30,756 Speaker 10: enter my beliefs or my associations in a popularity contest 328 00:21:31,196 --> 00:21:33,796 Speaker 10: in which the members of this committee are the judges. 329 00:21:34,596 --> 00:21:37,436 Speaker 10: I shall offer no cooperation to the evil purpose of 330 00:21:37,436 --> 00:21:54,876 Speaker 10: these hearings, except that which the force of law compels. 331 00:21:47,716 --> 00:21:54,436 Speaker 3: Extraordinary a committee of Congress. And yet I was very calm, 332 00:21:54,516 --> 00:21:58,796 Speaker 3: very composed, turned to my lawyers when I needed to. 333 00:21:59,916 --> 00:22:07,196 Speaker 3: But I have footage of us in the hall of 334 00:22:07,236 --> 00:22:11,116 Speaker 3: the Federal Building minutes after we came out of the 335 00:22:11,156 --> 00:22:14,756 Speaker 3: hearing room, and I'm so pleased with it. Not only 336 00:22:14,836 --> 00:22:17,796 Speaker 3: do we look so young, which well, everybody you know 337 00:22:17,956 --> 00:22:22,396 Speaker 3: is young before they get old. But I'm laughing. You know, 338 00:22:22,476 --> 00:22:25,916 Speaker 3: we're in such good spirits. I mean, there's no sense 339 00:22:25,996 --> 00:22:32,116 Speaker 3: of people who have been through an ordeal, but but 340 00:22:32,356 --> 00:22:35,436 Speaker 3: people who have done something difficult and you know then 341 00:22:35,476 --> 00:22:35,836 Speaker 3: they did it. 342 00:22:38,876 --> 00:22:40,876 Speaker 2: Had you decided what you were going to do with 343 00:22:40,916 --> 00:22:43,796 Speaker 2: the rest of your life now that Alice's professional career 344 00:22:43,916 --> 00:22:47,036 Speaker 2: was an end, or that's something you've not been thinking 345 00:22:47,036 --> 00:22:47,876 Speaker 2: about too much. 346 00:22:48,756 --> 00:22:52,756 Speaker 3: Well, the first thing we did was fire the servants. 347 00:22:54,076 --> 00:22:57,196 Speaker 2: Did you have a sense, sort of a perspective that 348 00:22:57,316 --> 00:23:02,956 Speaker 2: this too shall pass? That, oh forever? 349 00:23:03,476 --> 00:23:06,636 Speaker 3: The blacklist we thought was forever at that point. 350 00:23:07,196 --> 00:23:10,116 Speaker 1: Hell never had her tax returns in those years in 351 00:23:10,156 --> 00:23:13,076 Speaker 1: a little pile on the table. She took them out. 352 00:23:13,436 --> 00:23:16,196 Speaker 2: So nineteen fifty two was the first full blacklist year, 353 00:23:16,196 --> 00:23:17,476 Speaker 2: and your income that year was. 354 00:23:17,516 --> 00:23:20,556 Speaker 3: Three thousand, nine hundred and fifty six dollars. 355 00:23:20,836 --> 00:23:23,436 Speaker 1: Before landing on the blacklist, they had been making as 356 00:23:23,516 --> 00:23:26,236 Speaker 1: much as twenty thousand dollars a year, very good money 357 00:23:26,276 --> 00:23:29,196 Speaker 1: in the early nineteen fifties. Now they had to support 358 00:23:29,236 --> 00:23:32,796 Speaker 1: their two children, on a fraction of that. Al Levitt 359 00:23:32,836 --> 00:23:34,836 Speaker 1: met a rich man who took pity on him and 360 00:23:34,876 --> 00:23:38,396 Speaker 1: gave him a job filing. He got seven hundred and 361 00:23:38,436 --> 00:23:41,996 Speaker 1: twenty two dollars for the year. Al also used a front, 362 00:23:42,436 --> 00:23:45,796 Speaker 1: which was common practice during the blacklist years. The front 363 00:23:45,876 --> 00:23:48,756 Speaker 1: pretended to be the writer who got the credit, took 364 00:23:48,796 --> 00:23:51,716 Speaker 1: half the money. The blacklisted writer did all the work. 365 00:23:52,516 --> 00:23:56,156 Speaker 1: They were desperate. The next idea was correcting papers from 366 00:23:56,156 --> 00:24:00,076 Speaker 1: a correspondent school. That job earned two hundred and fifty 367 00:24:00,076 --> 00:24:00,876 Speaker 1: six dollars. 368 00:24:01,236 --> 00:24:03,396 Speaker 3: After the kids were sleep we would set up to 369 00:24:03,556 --> 00:24:07,756 Speaker 3: typewriters in the living room and correct papers from this 370 00:24:07,916 --> 00:24:12,396 Speaker 3: correspondent school thirty five cents for the first lesson and 371 00:24:12,436 --> 00:24:14,556 Speaker 3: a dollar for the last lesson, which was a full 372 00:24:14,596 --> 00:24:18,716 Speaker 3: short story. That was a terrible period alive. 373 00:24:19,556 --> 00:24:23,436 Speaker 1: They were broke, their marriage was falling apart. Then Al's 374 00:24:23,476 --> 00:24:25,436 Speaker 1: parents came to visit for two weeks. 375 00:24:25,356 --> 00:24:28,076 Speaker 3: And we tried to hide from them how terrible things were. 376 00:24:29,196 --> 00:24:31,636 Speaker 3: When they left, they gave us thirty five dollars for 377 00:24:31,676 --> 00:24:34,316 Speaker 3: their food, and I had to take it because if 378 00:24:34,356 --> 00:24:36,356 Speaker 3: I hadn't, they wouldn't have been up. 379 00:24:36,436 --> 00:24:37,956 Speaker 4: There wasn't a dime in the house. 380 00:24:38,836 --> 00:24:42,276 Speaker 3: Because I had tried to, you know, make things seemed. 381 00:24:41,996 --> 00:24:42,836 Speaker 2: Better than they were. 382 00:24:44,356 --> 00:24:48,436 Speaker 1: Helen Lovett remembered every detail of this time. Their daughter 383 00:24:48,516 --> 00:24:52,236 Speaker 1: was four and developmentally disabled. She was still drinking from 384 00:24:52,276 --> 00:24:54,836 Speaker 1: a bottle and waking up two or three times a night. 385 00:24:55,356 --> 00:24:59,916 Speaker 1: Helen and now were exhausted and most of all alone. 386 00:25:00,716 --> 00:25:03,876 Speaker 1: Their son Tom was expelled from his school. Everyone around 387 00:25:03,916 --> 00:25:07,036 Speaker 1: them seemed to be turning their backs from the moment 388 00:25:07,076 --> 00:25:10,396 Speaker 1: they appeared before Congress. The it's became parias. 389 00:25:11,676 --> 00:25:16,196 Speaker 3: Our best friend called that night and the ones that 390 00:25:16,236 --> 00:25:20,036 Speaker 3: we had seen every Saturday night previously at Brantwood, we 391 00:25:20,316 --> 00:25:23,396 Speaker 3: you know, went so regularly, and said don't come to 392 00:25:23,436 --> 00:25:28,556 Speaker 3: the party on Friday night. That was a terrible moment. 393 00:25:28,836 --> 00:25:30,556 Speaker 2: Did you lose a lot of friends? Well, a lot 394 00:25:30,556 --> 00:25:34,436 Speaker 2: of friends. I know you're not a bitter or angry person, 395 00:25:34,516 --> 00:25:35,716 Speaker 2: but what weren't you of. 396 00:25:35,876 --> 00:25:38,876 Speaker 3: I was originally lonely, lonely. 397 00:25:38,956 --> 00:25:39,876 Speaker 2: He was so sad. 398 00:25:40,596 --> 00:25:43,956 Speaker 3: We were so lonely. We would have invited out maybe 399 00:25:43,996 --> 00:25:47,196 Speaker 3: once or twice a year. It was blacklist night. When 400 00:25:47,196 --> 00:25:50,676 Speaker 3: we were invited, another blacklisted couple would be there. 401 00:25:51,076 --> 00:25:51,476 Speaker 2: Period. 402 00:25:52,076 --> 00:25:55,556 Speaker 3: We were never invited to integrated affairs. 403 00:25:56,276 --> 00:26:01,516 Speaker 1: We were never invited to integrated affairs. They were utterly excluded. 404 00:26:04,836 --> 00:26:08,076 Speaker 1: When faced with someone whose actions and views we disapprove of, 405 00:26:08,436 --> 00:26:13,276 Speaker 1: we have many options anger, concern, persuasion. We can chastise 406 00:26:13,356 --> 00:26:16,676 Speaker 1: them or try to reform them. But what was done 407 00:26:16,716 --> 00:26:22,116 Speaker 1: to the Levits was something different. Exclusion. Exclusion is sanctioned 408 00:26:22,436 --> 00:26:25,916 Speaker 1: without restraint, and while we're equipped to deal with anger 409 00:26:25,996 --> 00:26:28,876 Speaker 1: and conflict, we're not equipped to be cast out of 410 00:26:28,916 --> 00:26:32,796 Speaker 1: the community to which we belong. Its Why solitary confinement 411 00:26:33,156 --> 00:26:37,476 Speaker 1: is so excruciatingly painful, or why school suspensions have been 412 00:26:37,516 --> 00:26:41,356 Speaker 1: shown again and again to be the most counterproductive of 413 00:26:41,396 --> 00:26:45,476 Speaker 1: all educational interventions, and yet a third of all American 414 00:26:45,556 --> 00:26:48,316 Speaker 1: children will be suspended over the course of their schooling. 415 00:26:48,876 --> 00:26:50,076 Speaker 1: We can't help ourselves. 416 00:26:50,876 --> 00:26:51,676 Speaker 11: As I look back. 417 00:26:51,716 --> 00:26:56,916 Speaker 3: That was the That was the toughest thing. The loneliness 418 00:26:57,036 --> 00:26:58,196 Speaker 3: was simply dreadful. 419 00:27:00,756 --> 00:27:04,036 Speaker 1: My eighteen year old self would have welcomed Helen Levitt's punishment, 420 00:27:04,796 --> 00:27:07,676 Speaker 1: but now all I can think of is how carelessly 421 00:27:07,796 --> 00:27:11,276 Speaker 1: and casually we imposed this kind of brutal social sanction 422 00:27:11,396 --> 00:27:33,716 Speaker 1: on others. Exclusion is not justice, It's cruelty. The Levitts 423 00:27:33,756 --> 00:27:36,716 Speaker 1: clawed their way back into show business. Both of them 424 00:27:36,836 --> 00:27:40,716 Speaker 1: wrote scripts under assumed names. They called themselves the Augusts, 425 00:27:41,556 --> 00:27:44,036 Speaker 1: but they never had the kind of career as screenwriters 426 00:27:44,036 --> 00:27:47,156 Speaker 1: they once imagined for themselves. Using the big screen to 427 00:27:47,196 --> 00:27:52,676 Speaker 1: tackle serious issues. Al Levitt wrote for TV sitcoms. 428 00:27:52,676 --> 00:27:55,196 Speaker 10: I'm sorry, Greg, but football is out. 429 00:27:56,196 --> 00:27:59,276 Speaker 1: Like this Brady Bunch episode where Greg, one of the 430 00:27:59,276 --> 00:28:02,836 Speaker 1: many Brady kids, wants to play football and his mom 431 00:28:02,876 --> 00:28:03,956 Speaker 1: worries he'll get injured. 432 00:28:04,316 --> 00:28:06,156 Speaker 3: Mom, a guy can get hurt right in his own home, 433 00:28:06,676 --> 00:28:07,876 Speaker 3: like falling in the bathtub. 434 00:28:08,156 --> 00:28:10,156 Speaker 10: I'm oh, sure, din't have two other guys in the 435 00:28:10,196 --> 00:28:11,956 Speaker 10: bathtub with him trying to knock him down. 436 00:28:13,196 --> 00:28:16,316 Speaker 1: The Levits did more than sitcoms. They became active in 437 00:28:16,356 --> 00:28:19,796 Speaker 1: the Writers Guild, where Helen led a mentorship program for 438 00:28:19,916 --> 00:28:21,396 Speaker 1: young black screenwriters. 439 00:28:21,956 --> 00:28:27,156 Speaker 3: Because it's just grotesque that they simply are not hired 440 00:28:27,196 --> 00:28:32,396 Speaker 3: to write on white shows. Almost all their employment is 441 00:28:32,436 --> 00:28:34,076 Speaker 3: on shows about blacks. 442 00:28:34,756 --> 00:28:37,636 Speaker 2: Just to go pay you to do this, No, I would. 443 00:28:37,596 --> 00:28:40,676 Speaker 3: Dream of taking money for teaching black writers. 444 00:28:41,156 --> 00:28:43,116 Speaker 2: If you're teaching white writers, would you dream. 445 00:28:42,916 --> 00:28:44,636 Speaker 3: Of taking I don't want to be I don't want 446 00:28:44,636 --> 00:28:47,316 Speaker 3: to be a teacher for money. I mean, that's just 447 00:28:47,356 --> 00:28:47,996 Speaker 3: not what I do. 448 00:28:48,556 --> 00:28:51,836 Speaker 1: One cause led to another. A friend of the Levits 449 00:28:51,876 --> 00:28:55,396 Speaker 1: had a heart attack. The paramedics took forty minutes to arrive. 450 00:28:55,956 --> 00:29:00,076 Speaker 1: After that, the Levitz decided that they needed to learn CPR. 451 00:29:00,036 --> 00:29:04,236 Speaker 3: Because whatever we found ourselves in such a circumstance, we 452 00:29:04,236 --> 00:29:06,556 Speaker 3: would want to be the people who knew. 453 00:29:07,116 --> 00:29:08,916 Speaker 1: Helen was in her sixties by this. 454 00:29:08,836 --> 00:29:12,916 Speaker 3: Point, so it was very stress difficult for me because 455 00:29:12,996 --> 00:29:17,676 Speaker 3: I never moved a muscle in my life, and I 456 00:29:17,716 --> 00:29:20,316 Speaker 3: didn't even know then that I have had asthma all 457 00:29:20,396 --> 00:29:23,676 Speaker 3: my life. And then the breathing was very difficult, the 458 00:29:23,716 --> 00:29:26,436 Speaker 3: compressions with it. I really went into training because I 459 00:29:26,556 --> 00:29:30,156 Speaker 3: was determined that I was going to pass. There were 460 00:29:30,156 --> 00:29:32,116 Speaker 3: eighteen of us who took the course, and on the 461 00:29:32,156 --> 00:29:34,276 Speaker 3: eleven passed, and I squeaked through. 462 00:29:36,436 --> 00:29:38,996 Speaker 6: Here in this country, thousands of TV and movie script 463 00:29:39,076 --> 00:29:40,956 Speaker 6: writers walked off their jobs today. 464 00:29:41,316 --> 00:29:44,276 Speaker 1: In nineteen eighty one, the writer's guild called a strike. 465 00:29:45,076 --> 00:29:48,836 Speaker 1: The Levitt's old leftists that they were had to support it. 466 00:29:48,916 --> 00:29:49,836 Speaker 2: The other two strikes. 467 00:29:49,836 --> 00:29:52,396 Speaker 3: The key stumbling block is the union's demand for a 468 00:29:52,436 --> 00:29:57,356 Speaker 3: share of home video profits. I looked at each other 469 00:29:57,396 --> 00:30:00,876 Speaker 3: that we've got all this CPR skill in the guild 470 00:30:00,956 --> 00:30:05,156 Speaker 3: now if anybody has a heart attack on the picket line, boy, 471 00:30:05,196 --> 00:30:07,676 Speaker 3: we better really be prepared. 472 00:30:08,396 --> 00:30:11,556 Speaker 1: The two of them consulted with doctors, trained people to 473 00:30:11,596 --> 00:30:15,236 Speaker 1: teach CPR, organized the group of first aid workers into teams. 474 00:30:15,676 --> 00:30:18,436 Speaker 3: And I remember realizing and saying at the time that 475 00:30:18,956 --> 00:30:22,476 Speaker 3: the Writer's guilled picket Line eighty one was probably the 476 00:30:22,556 --> 00:30:24,876 Speaker 3: safest place in the world to have heart attack, because 477 00:30:24,876 --> 00:30:27,796 Speaker 3: at no point were more than sixty seconds away from 478 00:30:27,796 --> 00:30:30,876 Speaker 3: somebody who knew CPR. And so I'm kind of like 479 00:30:30,916 --> 00:30:34,716 Speaker 3: a general, you know, deploying my forces at every picket 480 00:30:35,236 --> 00:30:38,236 Speaker 3: or my students from my black writers workshop wanted to 481 00:30:38,236 --> 00:30:42,076 Speaker 3: work for me, So I've got a core, very loyal 482 00:30:43,036 --> 00:30:45,356 Speaker 3: young people. I had planned to stay home and write 483 00:30:45,356 --> 00:30:47,956 Speaker 3: a screenplay, but maybe this is better. 484 00:30:50,476 --> 00:30:53,156 Speaker 1: Helen Levitt got there in the end, not on the 485 00:30:53,196 --> 00:30:56,116 Speaker 1: grand moral political stage that she had imagined for herself 486 00:30:56,156 --> 00:30:58,996 Speaker 1: as a child. She wasn't very good at the grand 487 00:30:59,116 --> 00:31:02,916 Speaker 1: and the political. She was better at smaller and more 488 00:31:03,036 --> 00:31:07,076 Speaker 1: ordinary causes, giving a voice to black screenwriters, or on 489 00:31:07,116 --> 00:31:11,676 Speaker 1: the picket line, making sure no medical emergency was left unattended, 490 00:31:13,316 --> 00:31:15,276 Speaker 1: caring for the neediest cases. 491 00:31:17,436 --> 00:31:20,756 Speaker 4: There's another Yearish expression called goutnashuma, which kind of means 492 00:31:21,996 --> 00:31:25,316 Speaker 4: good in themselves, you know, kind of just intrinsically good 493 00:31:25,356 --> 00:31:28,996 Speaker 4: people who, as you say, strive to strive to know 494 00:31:29,036 --> 00:31:31,196 Speaker 4: what the right thing to do is and then do it, 495 00:31:32,076 --> 00:31:34,196 Speaker 4: and sometimes they have detours along the way. 496 00:31:35,276 --> 00:31:38,076 Speaker 1: What my younger self did not understand is that there 497 00:31:38,196 --> 00:31:42,596 Speaker 1: is no perfect and easy path to conscience. Sometimes it's 498 00:31:42,756 --> 00:31:47,076 Speaker 1: circuitous and full of unfortunate detours. And maybe what we 499 00:31:47,236 --> 00:31:51,596 Speaker 1: owe each other is faith and patience, because some of 500 00:31:51,676 --> 00:31:54,436 Speaker 1: us will take longer than others to figure out where 501 00:31:54,436 --> 00:31:58,316 Speaker 1: our conscience lies. Can you describe them? What do they 502 00:31:58,356 --> 00:32:01,876 Speaker 1: look like? I recently called up Alan Helen's son, Tom 503 00:32:01,996 --> 00:32:04,756 Speaker 1: on Zoom. I wanted to ask him about his parents. 504 00:32:05,156 --> 00:32:08,756 Speaker 11: My dad looked at a little bit like me. He 505 00:32:08,916 --> 00:32:13,436 Speaker 11: was slightly taller. My mother was short. She was about 506 00:32:13,476 --> 00:32:16,916 Speaker 11: five foot. I have pictures of him I can show you. 507 00:32:16,956 --> 00:32:18,516 Speaker 11: Would you like me to do that? Oh yea hey, 508 00:32:18,836 --> 00:32:20,636 Speaker 11: hang on just a moment. I'll have to go to 509 00:32:20,676 --> 00:32:21,276 Speaker 11: the other room. 510 00:32:21,716 --> 00:32:24,476 Speaker 1: Tom Levitt came back with two black and white photographs 511 00:32:24,836 --> 00:32:27,676 Speaker 1: in wooden frames. He held them up to the camera. 512 00:32:28,036 --> 00:32:28,916 Speaker 11: Here's my dad. 513 00:32:29,916 --> 00:32:30,916 Speaker 1: Oh he does look like you. 514 00:32:31,516 --> 00:32:33,676 Speaker 2: Uh huh, yeah, that's almost nice. 515 00:32:33,716 --> 00:32:34,196 Speaker 1: I'm Kenny. 516 00:32:34,236 --> 00:32:39,476 Speaker 4: That's your father, yeah, and here's my mom. 517 00:32:39,916 --> 00:32:47,436 Speaker 1: Well, I see Helen Lovet, slender short, wearing an elegant 518 00:32:47,476 --> 00:32:51,396 Speaker 1: black dress, smiling at the camera, eyes full of intelligence 519 00:32:51,476 --> 00:32:56,396 Speaker 1: and compassion and life. Born in Brooklyn nineteen sixteen, died 520 00:32:56,436 --> 00:33:00,876 Speaker 1: in Los Angeles nineteen ninety three. Can I judge Helen 521 00:33:00,916 --> 00:33:04,676 Speaker 1: love It? I know her now and what she went through? 522 00:33:05,436 --> 00:33:05,916 Speaker 2: I can't. 523 00:33:20,796 --> 00:33:24,516 Speaker 1: Revisionous History is produced by me LaBelle Lee Mengistu and 524 00:33:24,596 --> 00:33:28,956 Speaker 1: Jacob Smith, with Eloise Linton and on a naim Our. 525 00:33:29,116 --> 00:33:33,396 Speaker 1: Editor is Julia Barton. Original scoring by Luis Garra, mastering 526 00:33:33,436 --> 00:33:38,556 Speaker 1: by Flon Williams and engineering by Martin Gonzalez. Fact checking 527 00:33:38,596 --> 00:33:41,596 Speaker 1: by Amy Gaines, and special thanks to the Pushkin crew. 528 00:33:42,036 --> 00:33:47,316 Speaker 1: Had a fine Carl Migliori, Maya Knigg, Danielle Lacan, Maggie Taylor, 529 00:33:47,556 --> 00:33:52,756 Speaker 1: Eric Sandler, Nicole Morano, Jason Gambrel and of course Jacob Iceberg. 530 00:33:53,956 --> 00:34:23,596 Speaker 1: I'm Malcolm Gladwell. If you love this show and others 531 00:34:23,596 --> 00:34:28,276 Speaker 1: from Pushkin Industries, consider becoming a Pushnik. Pushnik is a 532 00:34:28,356 --> 00:34:33,316 Speaker 1: podcast subscription that offers bonus content and uninterrupted listening for 533 00:34:33,476 --> 00:34:36,556 Speaker 1: four dollars and ninety nine cents a month. Look for 534 00:34:36,716 --> 00:34:42,556 Speaker 1: Pushnik exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Subscriptions