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Speaker 1: Welcome to How to Money. I'm Joel and today we're

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Speaker 1: talking moving to Puerto Rico to acts taxes with Rachel Ferris. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's right. Some families have lived on the same plot

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Speaker 1: of land for generations. There's something intriguing about that to me.

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Speaker 1: But the United States also has a history of moving

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Speaker 1: towards opportunity, the settling of the West, the gold Russian California,

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Speaker 1: returning veterans moving at higher rates. In the aftermath of

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Speaker 1: World War Two, and recently just COVID we saw an

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Speaker 1: uptick in people reconsidering their living situation. Hey, do I

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Speaker 1: like kind of where I'm living in the accommodations that

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Speaker 1: I'm in. Do I want to be in the middle

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Speaker 1: of a big city. But what if the next great

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Speaker 1: place to move to is an island in the Caribbean Sea,

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Speaker 1: not just because it's beautiful, but because it offers certain

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Speaker 1: tax perks that are unavailable anywhere else. It's not for everyone,

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Speaker 1: but I'm also kind of fascinated by the prospect. So

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Speaker 1: I've invited Rachel Ferris on the show. She's a CPA.

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Speaker 1: She's a tax strategist who helps individuals and business owners

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Speaker 1: think through the details of uprooting from the mainland to

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Speaker 1: settle in Puerto Rico, largely because of the massive tax

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Speaker 1: savings that can be had. So, Rachel, I'm excited to

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Speaker 1: discuss this with you today. Thank you for joining me.

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Speaker 2: Awesome, thank you for having me. I'm super excited.

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Speaker 1: So first question I ask everybody who comes on the

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Speaker 1: show is what do you like to sport? John, what's

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Speaker 1: your craft beer equivalent? Matt and I will buy expensive

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Speaker 1: beers and some people think it's ridiculous to spend twenty

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Speaker 1: five bucks on like a bottle of beer, But I'm like, no,

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Speaker 1: it's worth it. What's have for you?

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Speaker 2: I'm going to hop on the alcohol train here and

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna say nice cocktails. I love going to a

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Speaker 2: fancy bar in a new city and trying four to

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Speaker 2: five cocktails on that list and sharing it with whoever

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Speaker 2: i'm with that to night. It might be ridiculous to

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Speaker 2: spend twenty to thirty dollars on a cocktail, but for

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Speaker 2: something for me, I think it's worth it.

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Speaker 1: Okay, thirty bucks on one cocktail. Ex Tell me what

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Speaker 1: are these bars where they get that expensive? Because I

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Speaker 1: know they've gone up in price. It used to be

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Speaker 1: like ten or twelve bucks was reasonable, And now I

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Speaker 1: swear at a good cocktail bar, you're dropping fifteen to

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Speaker 1: twenty on a great one. Yeah, well, I mean thirty.

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Speaker 2: I know it gets expensive. I was just in New

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Speaker 2: York the other weekend and I went out to this

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Speaker 2: bar called Double Chicken Please, and I think most of

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Speaker 2: the cocktails were at least in the mid twenties, and

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Speaker 2: after tip beer spending upwards of thirty dollars on every

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Speaker 2: single drink, So it's expensive but delicious. They had a

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Speaker 2: key lime pie cocktail that tasted exactly like a key

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Speaker 2: Lion pie. They had a Japanese cold soba noodle one

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Speaker 2: that tasted exactly like the Japanese called soaba noodles. It

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Speaker 2: was a very interesting take, and I was it was

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Speaker 2: worth it for me in every aspect of it.

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Speaker 1: That sounds, I mean similar to kind of what's happened

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Speaker 1: in the craft beer scene, where you've got like all

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Speaker 1: these really interesting takes on beer where they're not even

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Speaker 1: trying to taste like beer anymore, right, pickle flavored beers

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Speaker 1: and stuff like that. I guess cocktails are going in

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Speaker 1: that same direction, which is fascinating. Let's talk about Puerto Rico,

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Speaker 1: and I want to start out the outset to say

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Speaker 1: that this peaked my curiosity, even though I don't think

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Speaker 1: I'm planning on moving to Puerto Rico anytime soon, and

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Speaker 1: I think there's probably a large chunk of listeners who

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Speaker 1: it doesn't make sense for, But still I think it's

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Speaker 1: just fascinating discussion and worth covering. And I've been hearing

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Speaker 1: more buzz about Puerto Rico as a tax haven. What

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Speaker 1: is with the growing the burgeoning interest in Puerto Rico

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Speaker 1: as a place to live and as a place to

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Speaker 1: potentially avoid taxes that the people might otherwise pay.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, one hundred percent. Well, I think the growing recent

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Speaker 2: interest recently has really been surrounded by the fact that

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Speaker 2: there's a lot of market volatility and there's a lot

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Speaker 2: of political instability, and so when you have things in

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Speaker 2: government happening like these tariffs, or you're not sure what

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Speaker 2: your profile is actually going to look like a couple

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Speaker 2: months down the road. A lot of people are now

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Speaker 2: considering tax planning as an aspect of financial planning. So

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Speaker 2: these benefits have been around since twenty twelve. With the

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Speaker 2: original X twenty and AC twenty two, they really started

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Speaker 2: again in around twenty nineteen where they revamped that law

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Speaker 2: and it created AC sixty, and so Act sixty is

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Speaker 2: what we currently have, where we have a zero percent

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Speaker 2: tax on capital gains, interest, and dividends and then a

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Speaker 2: four percent corporate income tax. There's a lot of other

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Speaker 2: incentives that come along with it. But in the past

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Speaker 2: few years, we've been seeing more people getting upset with

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Speaker 2: the rising tax rates and just discontent about living in

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Speaker 2: the US and not knowing what things are going to

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Speaker 2: look like for them a year from now, and so

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Speaker 2: they like signing contract with the government and being able

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Speaker 2: to be like, hey, that's what it's going to be

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Speaker 2: for the next ten years.

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Speaker 1: You said rising tax rates. But interestingly enough, like tax

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Speaker 1: cuts and Job Act and then the one big beautiful

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Speaker 1: bill kind of cements lower tax rates for a decent

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Speaker 1: chunk of people. So when you say rising tax rates,

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Speaker 1: so what are you referring to?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm referring to a lot of things with tariffs

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Speaker 2: as well. A lot of people that do move down

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Speaker 2: for the business side of things are manufacturers, and they're

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Speaker 2: worried about retaliation tariffs on the back end of things.

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Speaker 2: A lot of people, especially in high tax states, like

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Speaker 2: New York and California. It's not necessarily just federal. They're

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Speaker 2: worried when they see the debts growing in their actual state.

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Speaker 2: Right so you're looking at California that essentially their only

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Speaker 2: solution is to take out more money from the taxpayer's

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Speaker 2: hands to really be able to pay off that debt.

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Speaker 2: They're looking at the future and not just right now,

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Speaker 2: but five, ten, fifteen years from now. What is that

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Speaker 2: going to look like? And how can I basically secure

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Speaker 2: my own kind of tax Yes, haven right now to

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Speaker 2: make sure that we're doing things correctly in the long run.

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Speaker 1: And we're talking about those high tax states. We're talking

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Speaker 1: about double digit state tax rates for the highest earners

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Speaker 1: in some of those super high tax states. So in

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Speaker 1: addition to potentially the owing at the highest end of

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Speaker 1: the federal federal tax bracket, that could be a substantial

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Speaker 1: tax buil that a lot of those people are looking

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Speaker 1: to avoid.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, a hundred percent. I mean in California, if you

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Speaker 2: are in the highest tax rate, you're probably paying over

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Speaker 2: fifty percent of your income every single year in taxes.

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Speaker 2: And so when you can really talk about, hey, I

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Speaker 2: can cut that down to four percent across a board

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Speaker 2: for my business. It's almost non negotiable for people that

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Speaker 2: really want to get that competitive edge for a few

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Speaker 2: years or just gain financial freedom by moving down for

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Speaker 2: around three years and then moving back to the US

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Speaker 2: after that. It's really a strategy that I'm seeing people

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Speaker 2: take advantage of in the midterm. Not necessarily that they're

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Speaker 2: planning to stay there for the rest of their lives,

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Speaker 2: but they're using it for a few years.

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Speaker 1: I do want to talk about that in just a bit.

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Speaker 1: I kind of the potentially part time nature of it. Oh,

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Speaker 1: do it for a season and then maybe you could

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Speaker 1: save on taxes, then you can get back to your

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Speaker 1: normal life in the US. I'm curious, so too, does

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Speaker 1: that mean you're not really getting calls from people in

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Speaker 1: states like Tennessee where there's not a state income tax

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Speaker 1: or are there still folks in those lower tax states

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Speaker 1: where it can make sense.

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Speaker 2: Oh, there's still folks in those lower tax states where

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Speaker 2: it makes sense. I mean, okay, I think again, it

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Speaker 2: depends on the actual income range that you're actually in

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Speaker 2: and what those savings actually matter to you, what you're

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Speaker 2: trying to actually save for, right, But I get most

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Speaker 2: people from actually zero percent tax states as well, or

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Speaker 2: really low income tax states. It's also a benefit because

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Speaker 2: you have the benefit of zero percent tax on capital gains,

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Speaker 2: interest and dividends. So even if you don't run a

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Speaker 2: business where you want to take advantage of that four

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Speaker 2: percent corporate income tax rate, there are plenty of benefits

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Speaker 2: that kind of trickle down to you. And again, if

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Speaker 2: you're in a high tax bracket, you're still needing to

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Speaker 2: pay federal taxes even if your state doesn't tax you.

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Speaker 2: And so because of that, a lot of people see

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Speaker 2: the benefit of moving.

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Speaker 1: Down because capital gains tax rates are favorable compared to

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Speaker 1: many of the income tax brackets. But fifteen percent it's

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Speaker 1: not as good as zero percent, right, So I get that,

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Speaker 1: and I want to dive into some of those details

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Speaker 1: in just a little bit too. But I'm curious as well,

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Speaker 1: like you worked for one of the big four accounting firms.

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Speaker 1: What got you into this niche because it is it's

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Speaker 1: very specific, like I'm going to help people move to

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Speaker 1: Puerto Rico to say on taxes, not just you know,

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Speaker 1: help people with their tax returns, or like what pushed

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Speaker 1: you in this direction specifically?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I actually love getting this question. So I had

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Speaker 2: a very close family friend that relocated down to Puerto Rico.

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Speaker 2: They gave me a call a few years back and

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Speaker 2: we're like, hey, I've never heard of this. Is this legit?

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Speaker 2: Have you ever heard of it? And it had never

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Speaker 2: even crossed my mind before that there are these options

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Speaker 2: out there. I was like, yeah, I can give it

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Speaker 2: a crack. I'll kind of review some documents, see if

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Speaker 2: this is legit. See how I'm able to help you out.

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Speaker 2: Just do it pro bono.

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Speaker 1: Tax evation or it sounds like a scam on the surface,

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Speaker 1: right You're like, oh, I'm going to move to Puerto

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Speaker 1: Rico and never pay tax again.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, And I think that's a big misconception about it,

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Speaker 2: is that people don't understand why it really is allowed.

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Speaker 2: So I can kind of go into that right after this.

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Speaker 2: But essentially they moved down and they were like, wow,

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Speaker 2: you facilitated that process so cleanly for us. The stress

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Speaker 2: of moving, because there was so little information out there,

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Speaker 2: was really hard to get and so they started referring

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Speaker 2: me off to their friends. Start a word of mouth.

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Speaker 2: I developed a lot of personal relationships with lawyers, CPA's

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Speaker 2: left managers on the island and also in the mainland US,

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Speaker 2: and my practice has kind of just grown from there.

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Speaker 2: It was very happenstance.

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Speaker 1: So what makes Puerto Rico special then, Like, yeah, why

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Speaker 1: is it kind of this exception to the rule that

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Speaker 1: the taxman is going to get his cut? Why are

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Speaker 1: their unique taxtules for me Americans moving to Puerto Rico

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Speaker 1: in the first place.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So, if you've ever heard of the phrase no

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Speaker 2: taxation without representation, this is a perfect example of that. Right, So,

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Speaker 2: Puerto Rico is a US territory, and so they are

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Speaker 2: technically part of the US. You can keep your US

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Speaker 2: citizenship and you have a US passport. Still, the difference

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Speaker 2: is is that they don't have voting representation in Congress

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Speaker 2: or Senate or anywhere in Washington, DC, and so the

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Speaker 2: US federal government is not able to institute taxes on

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Speaker 2: Puerto Rico as its own. So they're able to develop

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Speaker 2: their own tax system and so because of that, they

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Speaker 2: don't have to comply with federal tax rules, and so

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Speaker 2: they've developed this unique concentive code basically to incentivize people

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Speaker 2: to move down to help promote the Puerto Rican economy

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Speaker 2: and uplift it. As a lot of you probably know

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Speaker 2: there has been a lot of issues with you know,

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Speaker 2: economic development in Puerto Rico. You had Hurricane Maria hitting

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Speaker 2: in twenty twelve. You have all these things that have

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Speaker 2: happened that have really not allowed Puerto Rico to grow

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Speaker 2: in that same area. And when they brought in these

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Speaker 2: tax twenty and twenty twenty two and Acts sixty, basically

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Speaker 2: it helped uplift everything. They brought more entrepreneurship, more capital

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Speaker 2: of the island, brought more jobs to the island, and

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Speaker 2: it's really helping them uplift it from the ground up.

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Speaker 2: So it's been a huge transformation that the island has seen,

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Speaker 2: and a lot of people are very very pro Acts

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Speaker 2: sixty people coming down because of the fact that it's

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Speaker 2: opened up so many new opportunities for people actually located

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Speaker 2: on the island.

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Speaker 1: Because the people who are moving down have money and

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Speaker 1: they are incentivized to invest in the island. So it's

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Speaker 1: not just like, hey, let me pay no tax, but

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Speaker 1: there's also this sort of thing that goes alongside of

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Speaker 1: it to incentivize economic opportunity for the locals, right one

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Speaker 1: hundred percent.

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Speaker 2: I mean, you have to buy a property within your

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Speaker 2: first two years of moving down so that's helping with

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Speaker 2: the real estate development, right, it's helping with you know,

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Speaker 2: you got to your haircut, you have to go to

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Speaker 2: the dentist, you have to do all these things that

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Speaker 2: are helping build up that economy. If you are a

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Speaker 2: business that makes over three million dollars, you need to

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Speaker 2: hire one Puerto Rican and so it needs to be

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Speaker 2: a skilled worker and not just someone that cleans your house, right,

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Speaker 2: it needs to be someone that is actively involved with

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Speaker 2: day to day business operations. So you're really helping train

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Speaker 2: people and give them skilled work. So if you do

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Speaker 2: decide to leave the island after five years, you've actually

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Speaker 2: really contributed and now they can start their own business maybe,

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Speaker 2: or now that they've brought in enough money from their

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Speaker 2: dental practice, they can reach out, find new clients, do

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Speaker 2: extra marketing. It's really been quite a flourishing thing. And

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Speaker 2: they also have extra incentives if you invest in Puerto

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Speaker 2: Rican businesses. So let's say you keep your normal investment

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Speaker 2: profile that has I don't know, Tesla Coca Cola, whatever

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Speaker 2: it might be, if you invest in Puerto Rican businesses

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Speaker 2: in Puerto Rican local kind of companies or hedge funds

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Speaker 2: or private equity funds, you actually get additional benefits, so

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Speaker 2: it's encouraging you to invest in local things on the

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Speaker 2: island as well.

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Speaker 1: Okay, what's the differentwe in Puerto Rico and other low

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Speaker 1: cost or low tax destinations that other people might have

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Speaker 1: heard of, Like there's all the perpetual joke about the

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Speaker 1: bank account. The Cayman Islands or Singapore has been talked

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Speaker 1: about as a tax haven for Americans, So like what, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: what's the difference? What makes Puerto Rico superior?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so in most other places, United States citizens are

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Speaker 2: actually taxed on their worldwide income. And so if you're

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Speaker 2: going to the Cayman Islands, Singapore, Dubai, a lot of

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Speaker 2: the big tax savin names that I kind of hear

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Speaker 2: out there, you actually are supposed to be paying US

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Speaker 2: taxes on a good portion of that. And if you're

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Speaker 2: circumventing it to pay as little as possible, there's a

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Speaker 2: chance that you're not doing it fully legally, or you

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Speaker 2: have to renounce your citizenship. In Puerto Rico, since it's

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Speaker 2: a US territory, you can keep your US citizenship, so

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Speaker 2: you are a US citizen this entire time. You are

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Speaker 2: doing things the utmost legally that you possibly can. You

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Speaker 2: are not creating different holding companies and circumventing money here, here, here,

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Speaker 2: and here right. You are having a legitimate business that

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Speaker 2: is registered with the government. Everything is as transparent as possible.

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Speaker 2: There are added financial statements. You need to file an

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Speaker 2: annual report every single year. It is clear, transparent and legal,

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Speaker 2: and you can keep your US citizenship, which is the

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Speaker 2: biggest appeal that I see for people. Now. I hear

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Speaker 2: a lot of talk about other US territories. Really they

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Speaker 2: just don't have the same built up infrastructure that Puerto

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Speaker 2: Rico does in terms of living on the island, but

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Speaker 2: also in terms of the best tax program. Other places,

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Speaker 2: you know, US Virgin Islands or Guam or whatever, you

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Speaker 2: can move there and also you know, not kind of

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Speaker 2: avoid US federal taxes. The issue is that they just

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Speaker 2: don't have the same program that Puerto Rico does to

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Speaker 2: really motivate people to move down to the island.

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Speaker 1: Okay, cost of living too, So let's say it costs

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Speaker 1: more to live in Puerto Rico, maybe it wouldn't be

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Speaker 1: worth it for the tax savings you might enjoy. And

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Speaker 1: I've seen kind of split opinions on this some people say, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's cheaper to live in Puerto Rico, But then others

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Speaker 1: have said, well, but if you live in one of

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Speaker 1: the fancier neighborhoods where it feels like you have to

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Speaker 1: move to enjoy life like you might have back in

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Speaker 1: the States, then it's actually pretty expensive. So yeah, what

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Speaker 1: about those wealthier neighborhoods and what is the cost of

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Speaker 1: living like comparatively, Yeah.

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Speaker 2: The wealthier neighborhoods are definitely expensive. When you're talking about

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Speaker 2: big kind of gated resorts like Dorata result or Pamas

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Speaker 2: del Mar. There's any one coming up for Moncayo and Fajardo,

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Speaker 2: those can definitely get in the multimillion dollar range. And

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Speaker 2: the reality of that is is that there are very

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Speaker 2: few properties within those complexes. You get access to all

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Speaker 2: the resort amenity security twenty four to seven. You're surrounded

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Speaker 2: by all expats essentially, and a lot of people do

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Speaker 2: decide to take that route. But I also see people

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Speaker 2: that actually love living in Old San Juan, San Juan Condado,

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Speaker 2: a lot of areas where actual Puerto Ricans live, and

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Speaker 2: that cost of living is much less than the US,

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Speaker 2: and it's not necessarily at a lower standard. It just

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Speaker 2: means that you're not living in this resort community that

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Speaker 2: has seven different pools in a water park, in private beaches.

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Speaker 2: You probably need to go down to the public beach,

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Speaker 2: but you are in a nice apartment building, or you

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Speaker 2: have a nice home that is probably as nice, if

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Speaker 2: not nicer, than the house you may have in the

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Speaker 2: US for the same price. So it really really really depends. Honestly,

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Speaker 2: I personally spend a lot of mo time in the resorts,

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Speaker 2: and I really love it. But I actually spend a

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Speaker 2: lot of my free time with friends socially in Condado

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Speaker 2: and San Juan, and I feel like that's kind of

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Speaker 2: the exciting area where all the good food is and

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Speaker 2: you're not just trapped in kind of like an all

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Speaker 2: inclusive resort. What it seems like.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I'd get tired of that really quickly.

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Speaker 1: I did an all inclusive one time, and I was like,

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Speaker 1: get me out of here. It's it's really fun for

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Speaker 1: like two days, and then it gets like some of

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Speaker 1: those neighborhoods sound like a little ostentatious and not my jam.

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Speaker 1: So it's good to know that there are other kind

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Speaker 1: of places that you can move that don't cost quite

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Speaker 1: that much, and that could be a little more vibrant

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Speaker 1: and interesting. I'm curious too when people are asking you

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Speaker 1: about this potential move down to Puerto Rico, and are

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Speaker 1: they at all suggesting, well, what if I move to

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Speaker 1: just a really low cost of living country that more

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Speaker 1: Americans are choosing anyway, is that like a better option? So, like,

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Speaker 1: I visited Thailand and it was shocking how cheap it

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Speaker 1: was to live in Thailand. So even if I'm paying

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Speaker 1: tax on my income, boy, Thailand might be a better

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Speaker 1: option for me just as a geo arbitrage play, because

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Speaker 1: it's so much less expensive from a cost of living perspective.

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Speaker 1: So what's your take on some of those really cheap

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Speaker 1: places you can land in other parts of the world

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Speaker 1: versus kind of going all in on Puerto Rico.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think it's everyone's situation to their

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Speaker 2: own right. If you're a Thailand, you are halfway across

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Speaker 2: the world. If you're in Puerto Rico, you are just

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Speaker 2: usually one flight away, unless you're coming from the West coast.

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Speaker 2: They have a lot of direct flights down from kind

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Speaker 2: of the central part of the US and the East

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Speaker 2: coast much closer especially if you have family or friends

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Speaker 2: that you want to stay in contact with. In terms

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Speaker 2: of cost of living, yeah, it is definitely a lot

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Speaker 2: cheaper in Thailand than it is on the island of

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Speaker 2: Puerto Rico. The reality is, though, is that you're dealing

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Speaker 2: with a different set of issues. I mean, I went

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Speaker 2: to Thailand and I know you can't drink the water there.

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Speaker 2: You have to worry about food safety a bit more

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Speaker 2: Puerto Rico is the United States. Still, you do not

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Speaker 2: need to worry if you drink the tap water. You

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Speaker 2: do not need to worry if you're eating at a

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Speaker 2: restaurant that you're going to get food poisoning. So it's

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Speaker 2: much more similar to the style of life that we

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Speaker 2: are used to living in the US. They have huge

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Speaker 2: malls that have all the stores that you're looking for.

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Speaker 2: You know, you're not necessarily going to a country that

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Speaker 2: is still developing. I would say. The other big part

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Speaker 2: of that too is once again the taxes. You do

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Speaker 2: need to still pay tax on your worldwide income while

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Speaker 2: you're in Thailand. There are certain credits obviously that you

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Speaker 2: can credit against that, but the end of the day,

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Speaker 2: you're still having to deal with the complications of cross

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Speaker 2: border tax rules, whereas here in Puerto Rico, you have

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Speaker 2: the IRS that understands Puerto Rico situation a little bit more.

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Speaker 2: You have practitioners in Puerto Rico that are extremely familiar

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Speaker 2: with US rules, and so it's a much simpler process

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Speaker 2: to remain in compliance.

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Speaker 1: Talk to me about the tax benefits then drilled down

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Speaker 1: just a little bit, because you mentioned it right at

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Speaker 1: the very top, and how significant are the benefits and

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Speaker 1: how difficult are they to qualify for because there's definitely

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Speaker 1: some specifics that people need to be aware of. It's

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Speaker 1: not like you can have, you know, five million dollars

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Speaker 1: in your taxbile brokerage account, move down tomorrow, sell it all,

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Speaker 1: not pay capital gains tax, and move back the very

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Speaker 1: next day and just be like sweet, that was awesome.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely. So I'll talk a little bit about what

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Speaker 2: the actual benefits are first and then we can kind

395
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Speaker 2: of go into eligibility and compliance. So the benefits across

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Speaker 2: the board, there's actually a lot with under Act sixty,

397
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Speaker 2: but the most too popular decrees are the Individual Investor Decree,

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Speaker 2: which offers the zero percent tax on short and long

399
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Speaker 2: term capital gains, interest and dividends, that are sourced to

400
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Speaker 2: Puerto Rico. And then there's the Export Services Decree, which

401
00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:26,280
Speaker 2: is that four percent corporate income tax rate. So really

402
00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:29,240
Speaker 2: to qualify for both of these, it's just an application.

403
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Speaker 2: For the most part, you do need to meet three

404
00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:34,600
Speaker 2: main tests, which are the presence tests, the tax home test,

405
00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:37,640
Speaker 2: and the closer connection test. The presence test is kind

406
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Speaker 2: of the one hundred and eighty three days. There are

407
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Speaker 2: actually five ways to meet it, but I would say

408
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Speaker 2: the most common way to meet it is spending one

409
00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:45,879
Speaker 2: hundred and eighty three days in Puerto Rico. The tax

410
00:18:45,920 --> 00:18:48,600
Speaker 2: home test is, hey, where's your business actually located? So

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Speaker 2: you know, if I own a company in New York

412
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Speaker 2: and I am flying back and forth for business in

413
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Speaker 2: New York and I never create a business down in

414
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Speaker 2: Puerto Rico, you're not going to meet the tax home test.

415
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Speaker 2: And then the closer connection test is the most subjective

416
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Speaker 2: of the three, and this is really what I got

417
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Speaker 2: all the heart test, it's where does your heart actually lie?

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Speaker 2: Did you actually make an effort to move to Puerto Rico.

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Speaker 2: So a lot of the times it looks like moving

420
00:19:11,560 --> 00:19:15,840
Speaker 2: church and religious organizations, moving social organizations down to Puerto Rico.

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Speaker 2: If you have a wife and you are moving down

422
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Speaker 2: to Puerto Rico, your wife and your kids should come

423
00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:23,800
Speaker 2: with you. They should not remain in California. You should

424
00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:25,720
Speaker 2: move down to Puerto Rico and not be staying in

425
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Speaker 2: an airbnb or a hotel. You need to be staying

426
00:19:28,080 --> 00:19:30,359
Speaker 2: in a house that you're leasing or buying. There are

427
00:19:30,359 --> 00:19:31,879
Speaker 2: a lot of things that kind of come into this,

428
00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:33,919
Speaker 2: but the whole idea behind it is that you were

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Speaker 2: intentional with your move. You have actually moved to Puerto

430
00:19:36,359 --> 00:19:39,199
Speaker 2: Rico and left your previous day of residence, and so

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00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:41,919
Speaker 2: those are kind of the best ways to comply with

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Speaker 2: bona fide residency rules.

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Speaker 1: That makes sense because if Puerto Rico is going to

434
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Speaker 1: dish out those tax benefits, they want to make sure

435
00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:50,680
Speaker 1: that there's some buying right that you're going to stick

436
00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:52,760
Speaker 1: around for a little while, that you are actually going

437
00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:55,160
Speaker 1: to actively invest in, that you're not just there as

438
00:19:55,400 --> 00:20:00,679
Speaker 1: a tax dodge. Talk about how long people typically stay for.

439
00:20:00,760 --> 00:20:05,119
Speaker 1: Are people moving permanently because you've mentioned to your rule

440
00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:08,679
Speaker 1: that buying a house becomes a requirement, or are people

441
00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:11,120
Speaker 1: saying this is just a kind of a seasonal thing

442
00:20:11,119 --> 00:20:13,639
Speaker 1: for me, I'm going to stay here for a few years.

443
00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:15,280
Speaker 1: I'm going to kind of take advantage of some of

444
00:20:15,359 --> 00:20:17,760
Speaker 1: those tax breaks, and then I'm going to head back

445
00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:18,560
Speaker 1: to the mainland.

446
00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:21,200
Speaker 2: I see a huge mix of both. I have clients

447
00:20:21,240 --> 00:20:23,399
Speaker 2: that want to stay for the rest of their lives

448
00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:25,639
Speaker 2: or want to stay for at least ten to fifteen years.

449
00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:28,080
Speaker 2: I also have clients that are like, hey, I don't

450
00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:30,160
Speaker 2: see this being longer than like a three to five

451
00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:32,840
Speaker 2: year thing, And I think both are okay. I will say,

452
00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:35,320
Speaker 2: while there isn't a specific rule about the number of

453
00:20:35,359 --> 00:20:37,040
Speaker 2: days or number of years you need to stay in

454
00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:40,160
Speaker 2: Puerto Rico, a lot of residency rules on the IRS

455
00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:42,760
Speaker 2: and Puerto Rico side of things revolve around a three

456
00:20:42,840 --> 00:20:44,960
Speaker 2: year rule. And so what I advise most of my

457
00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:47,879
Speaker 2: clients is that you stay for a minimum of three years.

458
00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:51,000
Speaker 2: And that is basically for purposes of an audit. It

459
00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:53,520
Speaker 2: looks like you actually moved. It makes it look like

460
00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:56,080
Speaker 2: you made an intentional effort to go down there to

461
00:20:56,119 --> 00:20:59,040
Speaker 2: spend time there. And I think even a bigger point

462
00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:01,280
Speaker 2: is not necessarily the of year as you spend down there,

463
00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:03,720
Speaker 2: but it's what you did with your life in the US, right.

464
00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:06,320
Speaker 2: So a lot of people love to keep their house

465
00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:09,240
Speaker 2: available for you. So you know, I'm from San Diego. Originally,

466
00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:11,320
Speaker 2: I actually had a client that is from San Diego.

467
00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:13,320
Speaker 2: They wanted to keep their house in San Diego so

468
00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:15,160
Speaker 2: they could go back and visit. I was like, Hey,

469
00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:17,160
Speaker 2: you don't need to sell your home, but you should

470
00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:19,360
Speaker 2: rent it out long term at arms link to someone

471
00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:21,399
Speaker 2: you don't know. When you come back to the US,

472
00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:23,240
Speaker 2: you should have to bring a suitcase. You should not

473
00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:26,199
Speaker 2: have a house that has the exact same fixings that

474
00:21:26,359 --> 00:21:28,200
Speaker 2: you would have in Puerto Rico. You need to make

475
00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:31,320
Speaker 2: it look like you've moved, especially in high tax states

476
00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:33,359
Speaker 2: where they really want to come after you. You have

477
00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:35,720
Speaker 2: to make it look like you've left that state permanently

478
00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:38,119
Speaker 2: and that you've established a life in Puerto Rico. And

479
00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:40,000
Speaker 2: that's where I see most people getting caught up.

480
00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:43,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, what about additional expenses. So you're talking about

481
00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:46,760
Speaker 1: like plane tickets then right, traveling back and forth, but

482
00:21:47,119 --> 00:21:50,480
Speaker 1: you're also talking about if you have kids. I've just

483
00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:52,640
Speaker 1: seen some of the people who move down there and

484
00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:55,119
Speaker 1: the buckets and buckets and buckets of stuff they have

485
00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:57,440
Speaker 1: to transport, Like the travel day can be a nightmare.

486
00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:00,400
Speaker 1: But also, once you get down there, private school for

487
00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:02,199
Speaker 1: some most people they feel like that's a necessity. So

488
00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:05,439
Speaker 1: the cost of family of the family bears can be

489
00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:07,160
Speaker 1: significant with a big move like that.

490
00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:10,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, definitely, and a lot of people do decide

491
00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:12,280
Speaker 2: to home school. There are a few private schools on

492
00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:14,199
Speaker 2: the island. I believe a couple of them actually have

493
00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:18,080
Speaker 2: connections with the Miami Private School District as well, so

494
00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:20,960
Speaker 2: there is kind of some type of continuity with education

495
00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:24,479
Speaker 2: with the United States. That being said, obviously is different

496
00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:26,760
Speaker 2: than if you were going to public school in California.

497
00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:28,920
Speaker 2: You're not going to be doing common core like they

498
00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:30,760
Speaker 2: do in California. It's going to be a new type

499
00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:33,520
Speaker 2: of education. I've heard a lot of people actually happy

500
00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:35,959
Speaker 2: with that level of it, especially at a private school.

501
00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:37,600
Speaker 2: But those that don't want to send their kids to

502
00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:40,719
Speaker 2: private school, I usually don't see people going to public school.

503
00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:43,480
Speaker 2: I oftentimes see that being a home school route or

504
00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:46,800
Speaker 2: some type of online school for their kids. I completely

505
00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:49,680
Speaker 2: understand it's really hard to uph your life with your children,

506
00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:51,840
Speaker 2: and I think when people always ask me, well, what

507
00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:54,400
Speaker 2: dollar amount do you need to move down, I think

508
00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:57,119
Speaker 2: it really depends if you're thirty something years old, and

509
00:22:57,119 --> 00:22:59,760
Speaker 2: you're big in crypto and you have investments, you might

510
00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:01,440
Speaker 2: be I want to move down at a different price

511
00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:04,600
Speaker 2: point than someone that has a family with kids, and

512
00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:07,200
Speaker 2: their kids are now in middle school. It's really hard

513
00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:09,240
Speaker 2: to pull them out. If your kids one or two

514
00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:11,280
Speaker 2: years old, they're not going to notice a huge difference

515
00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:13,560
Speaker 2: for a few years. But if they already have friends

516
00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:17,359
Speaker 2: in school, I personally wouldn't uproot my kid's life for

517
00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:19,679
Speaker 2: a certain amount of money unless this was going to

518
00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:22,639
Speaker 2: set them up for the rest of eternity. So I

519
00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:24,639
Speaker 2: get a lot of different opinions on that, a lot.

520
00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:29,160
Speaker 1: Of personal factors to consider, as well as tax implications.

521
00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:31,119
Speaker 1: So in speak, wish I want to dig in a

522
00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:32,800
Speaker 1: little bit more to the tax stuff. And then also

523
00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:34,919
Speaker 1: just kind of well, who does this make sense for?

524
00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:40,160
Speaker 1: Because you're right, like the stereotypical crypto bro who has

525
00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:44,040
Speaker 1: built up a significant amount of money in his or

526
00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:47,280
Speaker 1: her portfolio, Well, then it might make more sense for

527
00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:49,760
Speaker 1: them to avoid taxation and bite the bullet and move

528
00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:53,280
Speaker 1: down to Puerto Rico. But then for others, like a teacher,

529
00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:54,919
Speaker 1: like or something like that, maybe it doesn't make as

530
00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:57,040
Speaker 1: much sense. So we'll get some questions on that front

531
00:23:57,160 --> 00:24:07,120
Speaker 1: with Rachel. Right after this I we're back still talking

532
00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:10,920
Speaker 1: with Rachel Ferris talking about Puerto Rico. Is it the

533
00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:15,960
Speaker 1: island of your dreams? The perpetual Caribbean vacation where taxes

534
00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:20,240
Speaker 1: don't exist? The way sometimes richly you describe it sounds

535
00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:24,119
Speaker 1: a little heavenly. It's like this little slice of sand

536
00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:28,199
Speaker 1: and sun in, you know, down in the Caribbean, and

537
00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:31,640
Speaker 1: you don't have to pay taxes like it sounds too

538
00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:34,720
Speaker 1: good to be true. We were talking about that earlier,

539
00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:37,640
Speaker 1: But I guess can you talk more maybe about the

540
00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:41,399
Speaker 1: individual investors. I think some people are have a business

541
00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:42,800
Speaker 1: and they're like, oh, this would be a great way

542
00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:46,120
Speaker 1: for me to move down and avoid paying taxes on

543
00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:48,720
Speaker 1: my business income. But I'm guessing a lot of the

544
00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:51,080
Speaker 1: people who are listening would call or be more interested

545
00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:54,960
Speaker 1: in the individual investor side of things. So how does

546
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:57,520
Speaker 1: that work? And how does that work too? For w

547
00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:01,160
Speaker 1: two employees. Let's say you could work from anyway. What's

548
00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:03,600
Speaker 1: the tax status look like if you live in Puerto

549
00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:05,760
Speaker 1: Rico but you work for a company back in the States.

550
00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:08,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, So let me touch on the individual investore first.

551
00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:11,200
Speaker 2: So essentially I'll give you a great example. Let's say

552
00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:14,120
Speaker 2: you've held Apple stock for ten years and you move

553
00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:16,520
Speaker 2: to Puerto Rico and you sell it a year after

554
00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:19,280
Speaker 2: you move, Well, you're going to mark down the value

555
00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:22,040
Speaker 2: of that Apple Stock anything that is publicly traded on

556
00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:24,040
Speaker 2: the day that you've moved down to Puerto Rico. The

557
00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:26,680
Speaker 2: ten years of appreciation before you move to Puerto Rico

558
00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:29,639
Speaker 2: will be taxed at US rates and your state tax rates.

559
00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:31,760
Speaker 2: The one year after you moved to Puerto Rico will

560
00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:34,120
Speaker 2: be taxed at Puerto Rico rates. And so if you're

561
00:25:34,119 --> 00:25:36,520
Speaker 2: expecting to move down, hey, I have all this money

562
00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:39,000
Speaker 2: in crypto, or I have this huge investment portfolio I

563
00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:41,600
Speaker 2: want to do a huge exit. Reality is you'll need

564
00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:43,720
Speaker 2: to spend more time in Puerto Rico and expect that

565
00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:45,760
Speaker 2: stock to go up a bit to make the move

566
00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:48,200
Speaker 2: worth it. You won't be able to capture those gains

567
00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:51,399
Speaker 2: that happened before you actually moved down to Puerto Rico.

568
00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:53,920
Speaker 1: But all the trading you do once you move down

569
00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:58,240
Speaker 1: to Puerto Rico. Let's say then you're talking about capital

570
00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:00,720
Speaker 1: gains tax free. But if you have portfolio and you

571
00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:03,720
Speaker 1: sell it when you're down there, sorry, you're still subject

572
00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:07,120
Speaker 1: to paying the United States Uncle Sam, it's fair share.

573
00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:09,160
Speaker 2: Yes, you have to pay their fair share again if

574
00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:12,080
Speaker 2: you hold that Apple stock for another ten years. Once again,

575
00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:14,000
Speaker 2: the ten years after you move that is going to

576
00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:16,560
Speaker 2: be Puerto Rico tax. The ten years beforehand is going

577
00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:19,159
Speaker 2: to be US tax. What I see a lot of

578
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:22,560
Speaker 2: the times with kind of situations like this is that people,

579
00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:24,840
Speaker 2: when they expect their stock to go up there expect

580
00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:26,440
Speaker 2: an investment to kind of do well in the next

581
00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:28,400
Speaker 2: few years, they want to get down to Puerto Rico

582
00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:31,960
Speaker 2: sooner to be able to capture that actual gain. I

583
00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:33,760
Speaker 2: think the big thing to note is that when you're

584
00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:36,240
Speaker 2: actually trading, so let's say you're spending that one hundred

585
00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:38,199
Speaker 2: and eighty three days in Puerto Rico, you need to

586
00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:41,520
Speaker 2: commence trades while you are physically located in Puerto Rico yourself.

587
00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:43,800
Speaker 2: So just because you're a resident for that year doesn't

588
00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:45,560
Speaker 2: mean I could be on vacation in New York and

589
00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:48,119
Speaker 2: the decide I'm going to stell my Apple stock. You

590
00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:50,399
Speaker 2: need to sell it while you're physically located in Puerto

591
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:53,359
Speaker 2: Rico to ensure that everything is actually captured as a

592
00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:55,600
Speaker 2: Puerto Rican gain. I don't want New York to have

593
00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:57,679
Speaker 2: any type of claim because you clicked a button on

594
00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:00,520
Speaker 2: your computer. You should be commencing every timee bit trade

595
00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:02,440
Speaker 2: while you are physically located in Puerto Rico.

596
00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:07,640
Speaker 1: Okay, so what about then income working from AFAR or Yeah,

597
00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:10,520
Speaker 1: so if I can work from anywhere and I can

598
00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:13,639
Speaker 1: move down to Puerto Rico, how does that impact just

599
00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:15,120
Speaker 1: a paycheck I get from an employer.

600
00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:18,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, so for a regular W two employee, generally this

601
00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:21,800
Speaker 2: doesn't work. But I found a lot of different ways

602
00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:24,320
Speaker 2: that W two employees have been able to make this work.

603
00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:27,440
Speaker 2: And so one of those options is having your employee

604
00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:29,879
Speaker 2: actually allow you to work out of Puerto Rico and

605
00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:31,960
Speaker 2: have a Puerto Rico entity. So if they're willing to

606
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:34,080
Speaker 2: say all the work you're doing is entirely out of

607
00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:38,520
Speaker 2: Puerto Rico, you can actually qualify for these benefits. A

608
00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:41,479
Speaker 2: second option I see is becoming a contractor. So I

609
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:45,160
Speaker 2: actually have probably about twenty percent of my clients they

610
00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:48,080
Speaker 2: worked with big employers back in the US and reached

611
00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:49,720
Speaker 2: out to them to say, hey, I'm thinking of moving

612
00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:52,359
Speaker 2: to Puerto Rico. They weren't open to creating an entity

613
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:54,359
Speaker 2: in Puerto Rico. Well, what they said is, hey, you

614
00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:57,440
Speaker 2: can be a contractor create your own single member LLC,

615
00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:01,080
Speaker 2: and we will pay you that salary basically as a contractor,

616
00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:03,119
Speaker 2: and then you can take advantage of that four percent

617
00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:05,760
Speaker 2: corporate income tax. And it's a lot more common than

618
00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:08,560
Speaker 2: you think for employers to be okay with this. Actually,

619
00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:11,080
Speaker 2: I would say most people that reach out to me

620
00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:14,119
Speaker 2: about it have around a seventy percent success rate on

621
00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:17,880
Speaker 2: employers being okay with one version or another. The third

622
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:20,479
Speaker 2: option is a difficult to hire or a difficult recruit

623
00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:23,040
Speaker 2: to employ a decree. So if you are someone in

624
00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:25,800
Speaker 2: a skilled position and you want to move down to

625
00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:28,840
Speaker 2: Puerto Rico, your company can actually open up a position

626
00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:32,280
Speaker 2: in Puerto Rico and say, hey, we can't really recruit

627
00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:34,080
Speaker 2: for this type of position in Puerto Rico. They don't

628
00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:36,479
Speaker 2: have the skilled labor for it. We want to recruit

629
00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:38,840
Speaker 2: someone from the US to move down, and then you

630
00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:41,960
Speaker 2: can get hired. Under that decree. The first one hundred

631
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:44,280
Speaker 2: thousand dollars of the salary that you get for that

632
00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:46,840
Speaker 2: year will be taxed at normal Puerto Rican rates. You

633
00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:49,240
Speaker 2: will not have to pay federal tax on that. Everything

634
00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:52,720
Speaker 2: after the one hundred thousand dollars is zero percent tax.

635
00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:55,480
Speaker 2: So it is a really great benefit for people that

636
00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:58,520
Speaker 2: are in highly skilled positions. I often think this works

637
00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:02,280
Speaker 2: for software engineers or people that have something very tangible.

638
00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:05,360
Speaker 2: This isn't great if let's say you are a plumber

639
00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:07,560
Speaker 2: and you want to move down to Puerto Rico. The

640
00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:11,200
Speaker 2: idea behind export services is that you're exporting service is

641
00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:14,200
Speaker 2: off the island, So you're not providing services to people

642
00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:16,920
Speaker 2: located on the island of Puerto Rico. You're providing it

643
00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:19,600
Speaker 2: to people in the US. You're providing it to people internationally.

644
00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:21,920
Speaker 2: And so if you need to be physically like a

645
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:24,080
Speaker 2: dentist with your hands in someone's mouth, this isn't going

646
00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:26,360
Speaker 2: to work for you. But if you're a lawyer, a

647
00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:28,720
Speaker 2: software engineer, any of the things where you can work

648
00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:31,680
Speaker 2: with people other places, virtually it works very well.

649
00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:36,000
Speaker 1: As we've seen recently in the state's tax law. Subject

650
00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:41,479
Speaker 1: to change, to debate, to political party influence, so and

651
00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:44,800
Speaker 1: so you can't really necessarily rely on even even hosting

652
00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:48,160
Speaker 1: the show we're talking about, well, future tax rates could change,

653
00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:50,160
Speaker 1: and so what do you do in the event, Like

654
00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:51,920
Speaker 1: there's a lot of there's a lot of stuff that's

655
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:56,200
Speaker 1: not completely knowable. So what's your take on the durability

656
00:29:56,360 --> 00:29:59,600
Speaker 1: of these laws? And you know whether or not people

657
00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:03,240
Speaker 1: should to uproot their lives to try to take advantage

658
00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:05,640
Speaker 1: of a tax break that could sunset at some point.

659
00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:08,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a great question. And when you actually get

660
00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:10,880
Speaker 2: the decree, you sign a contract with the government for

661
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:13,360
Speaker 2: ten to fifteen years, depending on your type of decree.

662
00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:17,040
Speaker 2: So you have that guaranteed rate for ten to fifteen years.

663
00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:19,480
Speaker 2: Versus in the United States, you don't sign a contract

664
00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:21,520
Speaker 2: with the government every single year telling you what your

665
00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:23,360
Speaker 2: tax rate is going to be next year, five years

666
00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:25,920
Speaker 2: from now, ten years from now. This is a guaranteed

667
00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:26,360
Speaker 2: set rate.

668
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:28,760
Speaker 1: In fact, we'll be debating the new tax rates again

669
00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:31,080
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty nine because of.

670
00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:35,320
Speaker 2: Sunsets, exactly. And so here you have a guaranteed contract

671
00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:37,720
Speaker 2: with the government. And the great thing about this contract

672
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:40,040
Speaker 2: is if they end up offering a better incentive, you

673
00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:42,280
Speaker 2: can switch to the better incentive. Now, if they make

674
00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:45,600
Speaker 2: it worse, it's not necessarily grandfathered in where you have

675
00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:48,040
Speaker 2: to go back to the worst program. You get to

676
00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:50,200
Speaker 2: keep the best benefit that they offer. And so if

677
00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:52,360
Speaker 2: they start offering a program where Hey, that four percent

678
00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:54,959
Speaker 2: corporate income tax rate is chopped down to two percent.

679
00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:57,640
Speaker 2: You can upgrade your decree to the two percent. Now.

680
00:30:57,640 --> 00:30:59,680
Speaker 2: If they tell you, hey, next year, we're switching that

681
00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:02,760
Speaker 2: to a ten percent corporate tax rate, you're stuck with

682
00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:05,680
Speaker 2: that four percent, luckily for the next ten to fifteen years,

683
00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:08,120
Speaker 2: depending on your decree. And so it's a really great

684
00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:11,520
Speaker 2: way to tax plan because there isn't necessarily volatility with it.

685
00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:13,880
Speaker 2: It is set in the stone. A big concern I

686
00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:16,520
Speaker 2: do see, though, is that this program for Acts sixty

687
00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:20,640
Speaker 2: isn't necessarily extended indefinitely right now. It is until twenty

688
00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:24,640
Speaker 2: fifty five, I believe, so for most people in their

689
00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:28,360
Speaker 2: lifespan right now, very reasonable. Before this, it was supposed

690
00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:31,680
Speaker 2: to sunset in twenty thirty five, I believe, But they

691
00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:35,000
Speaker 2: had so much success from this they've extended another twenty years.

692
00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:36,800
Speaker 2: So I don't think this is a conversation we need

693
00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:39,200
Speaker 2: to really worry about at this point in time. If

694
00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:42,440
Speaker 2: we get closer to twenty forty, twenty fifty five somewhere

695
00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:44,840
Speaker 2: around there and they still haven't renewed it again, that's

696
00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:46,840
Speaker 2: another thing we can bring up. But for most people

697
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:48,360
Speaker 2: that's not going to be an issue.

698
00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:52,440
Speaker 1: We've got some fire officionados in our audience who they

699
00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:56,160
Speaker 1: love the idea of front loading the pain, investing large

700
00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:59,440
Speaker 1: percentages of their salary so that they don't have to work.

701
00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:01,520
Speaker 1: They at least the work optional life, right, So once

702
00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:04,520
Speaker 1: they reach their mid forties or maybe even earlier for

703
00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:07,680
Speaker 1: some people who are really getting after it, they can

704
00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:09,560
Speaker 1: just like completely decide whether or not they want to

705
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:12,800
Speaker 1: continue working for money. And how do you think that

706
00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:17,000
Speaker 1: the fire crowd and Puerto Rico tax benefits overlap?

707
00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:19,080
Speaker 2: Oh, they're gonna love this. And actually a lot of

708
00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:21,800
Speaker 2: people come down with that exact same mentality. They want

709
00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:24,760
Speaker 2: to achieve financial freedom at an earlier age. And what

710
00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:28,000
Speaker 2: better way to do it. By securing those tax gains

711
00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:30,400
Speaker 2: back to yourself. You're not having to pay the government.

712
00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:34,320
Speaker 2: You're able to either get financial freedom, retire earlier, or

713
00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:37,440
Speaker 2: get a competitive edge on your business. I see most people,

714
00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:40,760
Speaker 2: especially younger people, going down to Puerto Rico and being like,

715
00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:42,680
Speaker 2: I'm going to stay there for five years. This is

716
00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:44,600
Speaker 2: how much money I'm saving when I go back to

717
00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:47,120
Speaker 2: the US. If I want to explore a new business venture, great,

718
00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:49,720
Speaker 2: If not, I am just going to coast the rest

719
00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:51,080
Speaker 2: of my life and I will ever have to worry

720
00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:54,000
Speaker 2: about a dollar, especially when you're thinking about big tech

721
00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:56,680
Speaker 2: people in San Francisco or big finance guys that are

722
00:32:56,760 --> 00:32:59,120
Speaker 2: day traders in New York. Right, this is a perfect

723
00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:01,600
Speaker 2: way to capture that within a few years of your

724
00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:04,920
Speaker 2: life and quote unquote sacrifice to really be able to

725
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:07,360
Speaker 2: optimize your financial future. Now, I don't think is as

726
00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:09,760
Speaker 2: much as a sacrifice as fire is, where it's like, hey,

727
00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:12,400
Speaker 2: you're going to cut your costs and you're just investing everything.

728
00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:14,560
Speaker 2: You're gonna live kind of measly so you can live

729
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:17,400
Speaker 2: bigger later on. The quality of life in portorioes great.

730
00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:19,280
Speaker 2: You are probably going to live a higher quality of

731
00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:21,880
Speaker 2: life than you did in the US. You are living

732
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:24,440
Speaker 2: in a beautiful island that has great weather most of

733
00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:26,800
Speaker 2: the year. Like I think for most people, they don't

734
00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:29,720
Speaker 2: see it as a sacrifice necessarily. It's almost an upgrade.

735
00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:32,200
Speaker 1: I feel like when Portorigo gets discussed, the crypto thing

736
00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:35,800
Speaker 1: gets thrown in there. Frequently. There's a decent population of

737
00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:40,040
Speaker 1: crypto enthusiasts and investors. Can the tax savings, Like you know,

738
00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:42,600
Speaker 1: we're fine with people owning a small amount of cryptocurrency,

739
00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:45,960
Speaker 1: bitcoin in particular, but typically we talk about index funds like, hey,

740
00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:48,160
Speaker 1: index funds are the tried and true, boring path to

741
00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:52,760
Speaker 1: building wealth. So that's a great way that people that

742
00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:54,880
Speaker 1: we talk about investing in a way a lot of

743
00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:59,080
Speaker 1: our audience goes about investing. So are the savings or

744
00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:02,720
Speaker 1: the tax saving the same for people who investing cryptocurrency

745
00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:06,120
Speaker 1: and index funds or well, yeah, how would you chop

746
00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:06,479
Speaker 1: that up?

747
00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:10,120
Speaker 2: Same thing. They are all basically like available for trades,

748
00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:15,600
Speaker 2: stocks or securities. Essentially, crypto especially works well, stocks work well,

749
00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:18,320
Speaker 2: index funds work well. It gets a little more complicated

750
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:20,640
Speaker 2: when you're talking about something that is off the market.

751
00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:23,799
Speaker 2: So if I'm investing in my friend's company, that's a

752
00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:26,719
Speaker 2: little bit hard to value, and so that generally comes

753
00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:29,040
Speaker 2: with a valuation study. But for anything where you can

754
00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:31,799
Speaker 2: get an active dollar amount on it, totally fine. The

755
00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:33,640
Speaker 2: only thing I will say to be a little concerned

756
00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:35,760
Speaker 2: about is if you were going the hedge fund route,

757
00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:37,799
Speaker 2: and I think that's a lot less popular unless you

758
00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:40,080
Speaker 2: are quite high net worth. But the idea of hedge

759
00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:43,000
Speaker 2: fund manager is they are actually initiating the trades for you,

760
00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:46,400
Speaker 2: and so because of that, that tends to be sourced

761
00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:48,439
Speaker 2: to where they are located and not sourced to where

762
00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:51,280
Speaker 2: you are located. But I've never had clients have issues

763
00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:53,279
Speaker 2: with index funds, and a lot of people end up

764
00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:55,560
Speaker 2: using the extra money to explore new types of investments.

765
00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:56,959
Speaker 2: So I have a lot of people that are doing

766
00:34:57,320 --> 00:35:00,279
Speaker 2: box spreads now right. So they liked index fund they

767
00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:02,799
Speaker 2: like the security, the low risk, right, and they found

768
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:05,200
Speaker 2: that box spreads were a really great option to also

769
00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:07,960
Speaker 2: get a very low risk investment with sometimes a higher

770
00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:10,600
Speaker 2: return and get that source back to Puerto Rico. There

771
00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:13,120
Speaker 2: are some really great financial advisors in Puerto Rico as

772
00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:15,760
Speaker 2: well that can assist you with that. There are people

773
00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:19,440
Speaker 2: that literally only specialize in helping getting all your investments

774
00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:22,360
Speaker 2: Puerto Rico sourced. And so those are great conversations that

775
00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:24,319
Speaker 2: you can kind of have with one of those people

776
00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:25,520
Speaker 2: if you do decide to move down.

777
00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:28,279
Speaker 1: So when the rubber meets the road, when you're talking

778
00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:30,319
Speaker 1: to people, what sort of thresholds do they need to

779
00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:33,200
Speaker 1: meet to make it makes sense to even consider this.

780
00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:36,080
Speaker 1: So obviously there's a lot of personal factors to talk about,

781
00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:39,919
Speaker 1: kids and schools and community all that stuff. Like, there's

782
00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:41,640
Speaker 1: a lot of reasons I'm not moving to Puerto Rico,

783
00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:44,839
Speaker 1: even after talking to you. But I could see it

784
00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:47,879
Speaker 1: for certain people in other phases of their lives and

785
00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:52,080
Speaker 1: who have other goals and you know, other tax situations

786
00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:54,560
Speaker 1: that they're dealing with, saying oh, yeah, I think this,

787
00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:57,360
Speaker 1: I should at least consider this. What sort of questions

788
00:35:57,400 --> 00:36:00,520
Speaker 1: would you ask them to help them to side whether

789
00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:03,520
Speaker 1: or not this made sense? And like, is there a

790
00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:06,680
Speaker 1: way even maybe to look backwards at how much tax

791
00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:10,160
Speaker 1: you've paid in recent years and say, oh, I think

792
00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:12,960
Speaker 1: I think you you make sense for you or actually

793
00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:15,520
Speaker 1: you're not really in the ballpark, you're not paying enough

794
00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:17,439
Speaker 1: tax where this sort of movement makes sense.

795
00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:19,400
Speaker 2: Yeah. So I don't love to give a dollar amount

796
00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:22,319
Speaker 2: for people, because ten thousand dollars means something different to

797
00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:24,239
Speaker 2: me than it might mean to you. Right, And so

798
00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:27,240
Speaker 2: I have people that move down making maybe two hundred

799
00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:29,560
Speaker 2: thousand dollars a year and they're like, Wow, these tax

800
00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:31,400
Speaker 2: savings mean so much to me. I have people that

801
00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:33,799
Speaker 2: I talk to that make twenty million dollars a year

802
00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:36,040
Speaker 2: that are like, Nope, not worth it to me. So

803
00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:38,520
Speaker 2: I don't love to give a dollar amount for that.

804
00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:40,920
Speaker 2: But what I will say. The question I always ask

805
00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:43,200
Speaker 2: is are you actually willing to move for at least

806
00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:46,160
Speaker 2: three years of your life? I get a lot of questions, Hey,

807
00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:48,719
Speaker 2: can I just VPN down? Oh? Can my wife and

808
00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:50,799
Speaker 2: kids stay back there? Oh? I want to maintain my

809
00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:52,520
Speaker 2: life in the US, and I want to go back

810
00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:55,600
Speaker 2: all the time and spend weekends in Puerto Rico. The

811
00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:57,279
Speaker 2: reality is is that you do need to move for

812
00:36:57,320 --> 00:36:58,880
Speaker 2: three years of your life. And if that is not

813
00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:02,040
Speaker 2: something that you'd even be willing to consider, then I

814
00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:05,080
Speaker 2: don't think this is the program for you. In terms

815
00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:08,600
Speaker 2: of who else this would fit for. I mean investors, entrepreneurs,

816
00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:11,719
Speaker 2: people that have a side hustle even right, people that

817
00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:14,319
Speaker 2: are w two workers that think that their employer will

818
00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:16,840
Speaker 2: be flexible. There are a lot of different ways that

819
00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:18,759
Speaker 2: you can kind of look at this. I don't think

820
00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:21,120
Speaker 2: there's a one size fit all model. Besides the fact

821
00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:24,479
Speaker 2: that everyone that moves down is actually willing to move

822
00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:27,640
Speaker 2: and commit to a life down there for usually about

823
00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:28,160
Speaker 2: three years.

824
00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:31,080
Speaker 1: Okay, a few more questions for you about Puerto Rico,

825
00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:33,279
Speaker 1: what it's like to live there, and kind of some

826
00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:35,080
Speaker 1: of those trade offs that people are going to experience

827
00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:36,839
Speaker 1: if they do say, yeah, I want to pay less

828
00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:38,680
Speaker 1: in tax, so I'm going to make this jump. We'll

829
00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:40,640
Speaker 1: get to a few more questions with Rachel right after this.

830
00:37:48,440 --> 00:37:50,680
Speaker 1: Right we're back from the break, still talking with Rachel

831
00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:55,160
Speaker 1: Ferris about acting your tax bill by moving, by leaving

832
00:37:55,239 --> 00:37:57,440
Speaker 1: where you live and all that you love to go

833
00:37:57,520 --> 00:38:00,880
Speaker 1: someplace for and a new Just kidding, I'm sure Puerto

834
00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:03,880
Speaker 1: Rico is I'm curious what is the XPAP population of

835
00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:06,960
Speaker 1: Puerto Rico now, Rachel, because like, are people going to

836
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:10,040
Speaker 1: feel like they're running in similar circles with Mainlanders or

837
00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:13,200
Speaker 1: is it like what's the cultural shock of moving to

838
00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:14,719
Speaker 1: the island of Puerto Rico these days?

839
00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:16,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I'm not going to sugarcoat it. It

840
00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:19,120
Speaker 2: is different in some ways. You can find community as

841
00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:22,120
Speaker 2: a fully English speaking people that feel like you're at home.

842
00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:23,960
Speaker 2: I know, I spend a good chunk of my year

843
00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:26,080
Speaker 2: down there, and when I go down there, besides the

844
00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:28,640
Speaker 2: nice speeches in the warm weather, I find that most

845
00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:30,960
Speaker 2: people I'm interacting with are very similar to the people

846
00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:34,000
Speaker 2: I'd be interacting with back in California. That being said,

847
00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:37,640
Speaker 2: when I leave those axpac communities it is predominantly Spanish

848
00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:39,279
Speaker 2: speaking and I'm not saying you need to learn to

849
00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:41,400
Speaker 2: speak Spanish. You can get by with English. Most people

850
00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:43,799
Speaker 2: know English. But again, it is a little bit of

851
00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:46,799
Speaker 2: a culture change where you're seeing menus in Spanish, you're

852
00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:49,760
Speaker 2: having to deal with, you know, getting your driver's license,

853
00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:52,120
Speaker 2: and you're having to deal with setting up utilities, and

854
00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:55,239
Speaker 2: sometimes they don't speak English, or sometimes the repair guide

855
00:38:55,239 --> 00:38:57,959
Speaker 2: doesn't speak English. Right. I found that most people don't

856
00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:00,719
Speaker 2: have huge issues with that. There are are very good

857
00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:03,440
Speaker 2: xpat communities that can refer you off to the best people.

858
00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:07,359
Speaker 2: So rather than finding some random handyman on Yelp, you

859
00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:09,120
Speaker 2: can talk to your neighbor and they're like, oh, we

860
00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:11,759
Speaker 2: use this guy all the time. He's super reliable, he's

861
00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:15,319
Speaker 2: easy to communicate with, boom, super easy. I would say

862
00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:17,239
Speaker 2: the big thing that I do notice for people though,

863
00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:21,040
Speaker 2: is one sometimes the quality of service is a little different.

864
00:39:21,120 --> 00:39:23,920
Speaker 2: So especially you know, girls like to get their nails done,

865
00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:25,400
Speaker 2: they get to like to get their hair done, might

866
00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:27,239
Speaker 2: get like to get their hair dyed. A lot of

867
00:39:27,239 --> 00:39:29,439
Speaker 2: people actually end up still going back to the US

868
00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:32,279
Speaker 2: for things like that just because they're used to kind

869
00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:36,479
Speaker 2: of a certain level of service. That being said, things

870
00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:39,160
Speaker 2: like dental and healthcare. It's decent down there. If you're

871
00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:41,520
Speaker 2: going to get a big surgery, I would say go

872
00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:43,600
Speaker 2: to the United States. Don't get the surgery done in

873
00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:46,920
Speaker 2: Puerto Rico. But if you're doing regular kind of screenings

874
00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:49,319
Speaker 2: and you just have your primary care doctor in Puerto Rico,

875
00:39:49,719 --> 00:39:52,000
Speaker 2: completely fine. Most of the people are actually trained in

876
00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:54,239
Speaker 2: the US and then they move down to Puerto Rico,

877
00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:56,719
Speaker 2: so you're getting a pretty high level of service. I

878
00:39:56,800 --> 00:39:59,520
Speaker 2: think the other big thing to mention is the electricity

879
00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:05,000
Speaker 2: grid that is always, always always in the news. Reality

880
00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:07,280
Speaker 2: is is that if you were coming down as an expat,

881
00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:09,440
Speaker 2: hopefully you have a certain amount of money to get

882
00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:12,680
Speaker 2: a place with a generator, you usually don't have any issues.

883
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:15,480
Speaker 2: I personally have never had an issue with electricity at

884
00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:17,920
Speaker 2: my place. My building has a generator and it just

885
00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:20,279
Speaker 2: snaps on like that. The lights will go off for

886
00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:22,640
Speaker 2: like a half a second, and I've never had a

887
00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:25,160
Speaker 2: problem with it. I do know people that decide to

888
00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:28,520
Speaker 2: live in areas where maybe it's not the higher quality

889
00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:30,520
Speaker 2: of living. And I'm not talking about like the nice

890
00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:33,120
Speaker 2: areas of San Juan and Condato. I'm talking like they're

891
00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:35,439
Speaker 2: living Ring Cone by the beach in a little shack

892
00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:37,520
Speaker 2: because they want to serve all the time. Those people

893
00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:39,920
Speaker 2: tend to deal with those electricity issues a little.

894
00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:43,600
Speaker 1: Bit more, okay. And hurricanes, that's another issue that you

895
00:40:43,640 --> 00:40:46,439
Speaker 1: deal with when you live in Puerto Rico. How big

896
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:48,520
Speaker 1: of a problem is that, because I would think that'd

897
00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:50,880
Speaker 1: be that could be a little little frightening to live

898
00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:52,000
Speaker 1: there during a hurricane season.

899
00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:55,319
Speaker 2: Yeah. So here's my hot tip, because I since I've

900
00:40:55,320 --> 00:40:58,600
Speaker 2: been living there, I actually have never experienced a legitimate hurricane.

901
00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:02,160
Speaker 2: Obviously a hurricane back in twenty twelve that just wiped

902
00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:05,160
Speaker 2: things out. My tip is what I do is if

903
00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:07,440
Speaker 2: I hear a little musing about a hurricane coming, I

904
00:41:07,480 --> 00:41:10,319
Speaker 2: book a refundable flight for every single day that week,

905
00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:13,000
Speaker 2: so Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday onwards. And if I don't

906
00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:15,480
Speaker 2: feel like I need to leave, refund the flight, Refund

907
00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:17,400
Speaker 2: the flight, refund the flight. If I do feel like

908
00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:19,560
Speaker 2: I need to leave, boom, I have a flight already

909
00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:22,160
Speaker 2: ready for me. There are some great airports in Puerto Rico,

910
00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:24,840
Speaker 2: very easy to get off island, and so that's what

911
00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:27,600
Speaker 2: I really suggest for most people. Again, if you're not

912
00:41:27,719 --> 00:41:29,560
Speaker 2: living right on the beach, you shouldn't have an issue

913
00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:32,320
Speaker 2: if you're living in a bigger building. My building is concrete,

914
00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:36,280
Speaker 2: nice new I have never worried about flooding or windows

915
00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:39,560
Speaker 2: being broken or things like that. Necessarily, if you're gonna

916
00:41:39,560 --> 00:41:42,080
Speaker 2: stand alone home shack right on the beach, yeah you

917
00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:44,160
Speaker 2: probably do have something to worry about. But a lot

918
00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:46,200
Speaker 2: of people end up traveling during that time, or if

919
00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:47,840
Speaker 2: they do need to stay on island, they do the

920
00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:51,520
Speaker 2: flight trick. Like I just mentioned, hurricane season is generally

921
00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:54,520
Speaker 2: through kind of late summer early fall, and so it's

922
00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:56,319
Speaker 2: kind of the perfect time to escape the heat of

923
00:41:56,360 --> 00:41:59,120
Speaker 2: Puerto Rico and go see family back in the US,

924
00:41:59,239 --> 00:42:01,239
Speaker 2: or go to Europe and travel for a bit, or

925
00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:03,839
Speaker 2: check out another place for the summer and enjoy your time.

926
00:42:04,480 --> 00:42:06,960
Speaker 2: A lot of people don't even live there during hurricane season,

927
00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:08,600
Speaker 2: so it's not something you need to worry about.

928
00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:13,359
Speaker 1: You mentioned the hospitality of the locals. But I've seen

929
00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:16,480
Speaker 1: too that there has been some pushback. Like I was

930
00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:18,879
Speaker 1: in Hawaii recently and I saw these signs up, these

931
00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:22,400
Speaker 1: like anti resort building signs. So even in you know,

932
00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:25,960
Speaker 1: the actual like United States, a state in the United States,

933
00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:29,640
Speaker 1: there are people who are against some of the forms

934
00:42:29,680 --> 00:42:32,200
Speaker 1: of tourism that happen, and they don't They don't want

935
00:42:32,239 --> 00:42:37,640
Speaker 1: to see maybe their precious local resources used by people

936
00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:40,680
Speaker 1: they don't perceive as locals. So I have seen some

937
00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:42,960
Speaker 1: of that pushback. What does that look like, what sort

938
00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:46,279
Speaker 1: of frustrations exist? And then how do people that you

939
00:42:46,960 --> 00:42:48,600
Speaker 1: have helped move down there deal with that?

940
00:42:49,040 --> 00:42:52,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a really great question. Yeah, there obviously are

941
00:42:52,680 --> 00:42:54,799
Speaker 2: people that are discontent with it. I will say it's

942
00:42:54,880 --> 00:42:57,239
Speaker 2: less on the government side and sometimes more on the

943
00:42:57,280 --> 00:43:00,440
Speaker 2: actual people living their side. We don't see pro tests

944
00:43:00,520 --> 00:43:03,359
Speaker 2: or things like that. Within the communities. It's a lot

945
00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:06,880
Speaker 2: of times more discontent towards the actual politicians that have

946
00:43:06,920 --> 00:43:10,120
Speaker 2: put it in place, not necessarily against the foreigners who

947
00:43:10,120 --> 00:43:13,160
Speaker 2: are spending their money. Most people actually like the fact that,

948
00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:16,279
Speaker 2: you know, people are spending money in the economy. What

949
00:43:16,320 --> 00:43:18,640
Speaker 2: they don't like is that real estate prices are going

950
00:43:18,719 --> 00:43:21,120
Speaker 2: up in some of those more expat areas, and it's

951
00:43:21,160 --> 00:43:25,399
Speaker 2: pricing some people out, and that's really unfortunate. What I found, though,

952
00:43:25,440 --> 00:43:26,960
Speaker 2: is that the way that the government has kind of

953
00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:30,160
Speaker 2: circumvented this is that they actually require as part of

954
00:43:30,200 --> 00:43:33,000
Speaker 2: your decree to give ten thousand dollars every single year

955
00:43:33,160 --> 00:43:36,040
Speaker 2: to a Puerto Rican charity, and so that's really helped

956
00:43:36,120 --> 00:43:38,879
Speaker 2: kind of rebrand the idea of what ac sexety really

957
00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:42,239
Speaker 2: looks like. You're helping out local people. Five thousand dollars

958
00:43:42,280 --> 00:43:45,280
Speaker 2: of that actually needs to go to eradicating child poverty,

959
00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:48,040
Speaker 2: and so you're helping uplift the population in a lot

960
00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:51,279
Speaker 2: of wayte possible. They sometimes require people as part of

961
00:43:51,320 --> 00:43:53,720
Speaker 2: the decree to go to career fairs or to speak

962
00:43:53,920 --> 00:43:57,400
Speaker 2: on different boards, different appearances every single year to really

963
00:43:57,719 --> 00:44:01,000
Speaker 2: engage with the local community. Obviously there are still people

964
00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:04,000
Speaker 2: that never leave their little resort community, but as a whole,

965
00:44:04,480 --> 00:44:07,279
Speaker 2: I think especially in the areas with a lot of expats. Yes,

966
00:44:07,320 --> 00:44:10,080
Speaker 2: people are discontent with the housing prices and that there

967
00:44:10,120 --> 00:44:12,560
Speaker 2: are some unfair parts about sixty, but a lot of

968
00:44:12,560 --> 00:44:15,239
Speaker 2: people are very happy about the income coming in. And

969
00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:17,560
Speaker 2: one thing that the government actually did to make things

970
00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:19,840
Speaker 2: a little bit more equal is that they're now allowing

971
00:44:19,880 --> 00:44:24,080
Speaker 2: Puerto Rican residents that are local not necessarily ACT sixty participants,

972
00:44:24,120 --> 00:44:26,560
Speaker 2: to also take advantage of some of those tax rules,

973
00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:29,440
Speaker 2: so that four percent corporate income tax will now be

974
00:44:29,480 --> 00:44:32,880
Speaker 2: allowed to be applied for by local Puerto Ricans as well. Beforehand,

975
00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:35,479
Speaker 2: it was just reserved for expats and people moving down.

976
00:44:35,719 --> 00:44:37,600
Speaker 2: So they're trying to even the playing field a little

977
00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:39,920
Speaker 2: bit more now that they've gotten that money coming in.

978
00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:42,880
Speaker 2: So I think people are starting to look up at

979
00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:45,719
Speaker 2: least on a lot of those attitudes. And overall, I

980
00:44:45,719 --> 00:44:49,760
Speaker 2: mean it's brought multi hundreds of millions of dollars essentially

981
00:44:49,800 --> 00:44:52,520
Speaker 2: into the Puerto Rican economy that a lot of the

982
00:44:52,560 --> 00:44:57,320
Speaker 2: areas have improved multifold, especially in Dorado and the popular areas.

983
00:44:57,800 --> 00:45:00,200
Speaker 1: No, it makes sense. It makes sense as u as

984
00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:05,040
Speaker 1: an island. Who's that's trying to, you know, incentivize investment

985
00:45:05,360 --> 00:45:09,120
Speaker 1: and revitalization that bring people down even with those tax

986
00:45:09,280 --> 00:45:12,480
Speaker 1: benefits that they offer. That's the incentive, and then hopefully

987
00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:15,160
Speaker 1: those people stick around and they are doing good in

988
00:45:15,200 --> 00:45:18,200
Speaker 1: the community. I'm curious, what would you say to somebody

989
00:45:18,239 --> 00:45:23,520
Speaker 1: who's been listening and they're skeptical or they're like, it's

990
00:45:23,560 --> 00:45:26,600
Speaker 1: interesting and it's cool, but it sounds like maybe it's

991
00:45:26,640 --> 00:45:31,480
Speaker 1: for people with like yacht sort of money, or like

992
00:45:31,560 --> 00:45:33,880
Speaker 1: it's it's not for people like me. What would you

993
00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:34,600
Speaker 1: say to those people?

994
00:45:34,920 --> 00:45:37,880
Speaker 2: I think Act Sexety is a great example of understanding

995
00:45:37,880 --> 00:45:40,080
Speaker 2: the rules of the game. This used to be something

996
00:45:40,080 --> 00:45:42,680
Speaker 2: that was only accessible to the ultra high net worth

997
00:45:42,840 --> 00:45:45,480
Speaker 2: that were able to get this information, and slowly and

998
00:45:45,520 --> 00:45:48,400
Speaker 2: slowly it's starting to open up to more people. I

999
00:45:48,440 --> 00:45:51,560
Speaker 2: think that if you want to secure financial freedom for yourself,

1000
00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:54,040
Speaker 2: this is a great opportunity. You don't need to be

1001
00:45:54,080 --> 00:45:56,480
Speaker 2: making tens millions and hundreds of millions of dollars to

1002
00:45:56,480 --> 00:45:59,920
Speaker 2: take advantage of this. In reality, your decree will get approved,

1003
00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:02,640
Speaker 2: and even if you're only saving a couple tens of

1004
00:46:02,640 --> 00:46:05,000
Speaker 2: thousands of dollars a year, if that's worth it to

1005
00:46:05,000 --> 00:46:07,200
Speaker 2: you for a few years of your life, it's pretty

1006
00:46:07,200 --> 00:46:09,680
Speaker 2: easy to get down there. I would suggest reaching out

1007
00:46:09,719 --> 00:46:12,080
Speaker 2: to professionals like myself. A lot of us offer free

1008
00:46:12,080 --> 00:46:15,319
Speaker 2: consultations where we can talk you through what eligibility looks like.

1009
00:46:15,600 --> 00:46:18,319
Speaker 2: We can go through your previous tax returns and say, hey,

1010
00:46:18,360 --> 00:46:19,800
Speaker 2: this is the amount you would have saved in the

1011
00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:22,560
Speaker 2: last five years if you actually moved down. It'll give

1012
00:46:22,600 --> 00:46:25,240
Speaker 2: you a really great picture for it. And most people

1013
00:46:25,360 --> 00:46:28,040
Speaker 2: just want to inform people about the benefits of Puerto Rico,

1014
00:46:28,120 --> 00:46:30,880
Speaker 2: So reach out to any of the professionals hear about

1015
00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:33,279
Speaker 2: it and In reality, what you should understand is, yeah,

1016
00:46:33,360 --> 00:46:35,520
Speaker 2: a lot of the clients I do have are multimillionaires.

1017
00:46:35,680 --> 00:46:38,000
Speaker 2: I actually have a client right now that makes zero dollars.

1018
00:46:38,040 --> 00:46:40,959
Speaker 2: They're starting a new business. So there is a huge

1019
00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:43,440
Speaker 2: spectra of people moving down. It's just more about the

1020
00:46:43,480 --> 00:46:46,360
Speaker 2: attitude behind moving So don't be afraid if you're making

1021
00:46:46,640 --> 00:46:48,799
Speaker 2: one hundred, one hundred and fifty thousand dollars a year.

1022
00:46:48,960 --> 00:46:51,000
Speaker 2: If it's worth it to you, it's worth it to you,

1023
00:46:51,200 --> 00:46:54,800
Speaker 2: and it's easy to file through the process. Compliance is

1024
00:46:54,840 --> 00:46:56,520
Speaker 2: a little bit trickier, but if you are a one

1025
00:46:56,560 --> 00:46:59,360
Speaker 2: man operation you're just dealing with investments, you're going to

1026
00:46:59,400 --> 00:47:01,719
Speaker 2: be pretty simple. It gets more complicated in the fees

1027
00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:05,000
Speaker 2: get a lot heavier when you have multinational organizations and

1028
00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:07,839
Speaker 2: international entities and trusts in the States you're dealing with.

1029
00:47:08,120 --> 00:47:11,759
Speaker 2: If you're just Joshmo out of Ohio and you want

1030
00:47:11,760 --> 00:47:12,960
Speaker 2: to move down and you just have a lot of

1031
00:47:13,040 --> 00:47:15,040
Speaker 2: investments and you want to check it out, it's going

1032
00:47:15,080 --> 00:47:16,719
Speaker 2: to be a pretty easy process for you, and I

1033
00:47:16,719 --> 00:47:20,200
Speaker 2: wouldn't be overly concerned about qualifying your eligibility.

1034
00:47:20,360 --> 00:47:24,040
Speaker 1: Okay, Rachel, this has been an enlightening conversation. Thank you

1035
00:47:24,080 --> 00:47:26,560
Speaker 1: so much work. Can listeners find out more about you

1036
00:47:26,800 --> 00:47:27,760
Speaker 1: if they're curious?

1037
00:47:28,080 --> 00:47:31,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely. So. I have an online education course at

1038
00:47:31,520 --> 00:47:35,160
Speaker 2: maximizewell dot com. It walks you through just the basics

1039
00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:37,560
Speaker 2: of what Act sixty compliance look like, how to file

1040
00:47:37,600 --> 00:47:40,720
Speaker 2: the application, how to look at compliance even after you apply.

1041
00:47:41,520 --> 00:47:44,040
Speaker 2: There's a free kind of little preview on there as

1042
00:47:44,040 --> 00:47:46,640
Speaker 2: well that you can look through. Alternatively, if you want

1043
00:47:46,640 --> 00:47:49,840
Speaker 2: to talk to me, my website is Rachel ferriscpa dot com.

1044
00:47:49,880 --> 00:47:53,160
Speaker 2: I offer free consultations to anyone who's looking to move down.

1045
00:47:53,480 --> 00:47:55,360
Speaker 2: You can read some of the articles on my website

1046
00:47:55,360 --> 00:47:57,520
Speaker 2: get a better picture for what Act sixty looks like,

1047
00:47:57,880 --> 00:47:59,279
Speaker 2: or you can just book a call with me and

1048
00:47:59,320 --> 00:48:00,880
Speaker 2: I'd be happy to talk you through everything.

1049
00:48:01,400 --> 00:48:05,600
Speaker 1: Awesome, Thank you, Rachel, appreciate it, of course, Thanks joll okay.

1050
00:48:05,600 --> 00:48:09,719
Speaker 1: So that was a fun conversation, and interestingly, it's one

1051
00:48:09,760 --> 00:48:13,800
Speaker 1: I debated a lot before inviting Rachel on the show

1052
00:48:13,920 --> 00:48:16,040
Speaker 1: because I was like, I don't know this is what

1053
00:48:16,160 --> 00:48:19,600
Speaker 1: this seems like one of those tax dodging strategies for

1054
00:48:19,760 --> 00:48:22,759
Speaker 1: multimillionaires sorts of sorts of things, and I know that

1055
00:48:22,760 --> 00:48:26,200
Speaker 1: the How To Money audience wants to be multimillionaire someday,

1056
00:48:26,239 --> 00:48:30,880
Speaker 1: But we're mostly normal people, right, offering advice for normal

1057
00:48:30,920 --> 00:48:33,160
Speaker 1: folks to be able to make progress with their personal

1058
00:48:33,200 --> 00:48:37,520
Speaker 1: finances on the margins and eventually achieve financial independence at

1059
00:48:37,600 --> 00:48:41,000
Speaker 1: vastly earlier rates than most people. But I think Rachel

1060
00:48:41,080 --> 00:48:42,920
Speaker 1: made a good point in there, and probably my big

1061
00:48:42,960 --> 00:48:46,160
Speaker 1: takeaway is that, yeah, it's really hard to set a

1062
00:48:46,160 --> 00:48:49,920
Speaker 1: guideline and say that a person needs to have a

1063
00:48:49,960 --> 00:48:53,080
Speaker 1: ten million dollar net worth or a one hundred thousand

1064
00:48:53,160 --> 00:48:55,880
Speaker 1: dollars salary. Well, that's not going to be enough saving.

1065
00:48:55,960 --> 00:48:59,920
Speaker 1: So so much of it depends on what your value've

1066
00:49:00,160 --> 00:49:02,680
Speaker 1: you ten thousand dollars and the trade off of moving

1067
00:49:02,680 --> 00:49:06,799
Speaker 1: elsewhere for years in order to realize tax savings. And

1068
00:49:06,880 --> 00:49:09,120
Speaker 1: so I thought this was actually one of the things

1069
00:49:09,120 --> 00:49:12,480
Speaker 1: that this highlighted for me this conversation was just the

1070
00:49:12,560 --> 00:49:17,480
Speaker 1: fact that when you look for tax savings or when

1071
00:49:17,520 --> 00:49:20,320
Speaker 1: you have an idea of this is what Rachel address

1072
00:49:20,400 --> 00:49:21,960
Speaker 1: kind of at the very in there of how the

1073
00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:25,040
Speaker 1: game works, it helps you wrap your mind around a

1074
00:49:25,080 --> 00:49:28,320
Speaker 1: little more and maybe you find tax savings in places

1075
00:49:28,640 --> 00:49:31,719
Speaker 1: that you didn't otherwise assume. So even even on the

1076
00:49:31,760 --> 00:49:35,919
Speaker 1: mainland United States. Right, there are tax benefits such as

1077
00:49:36,040 --> 00:49:39,160
Speaker 1: real estate professional status. If you are a real estate

1078
00:49:39,200 --> 00:49:42,280
Speaker 1: investor and you know more of your time is spent

1079
00:49:42,360 --> 00:49:44,680
Speaker 1: doing real estate than it is doing your day job,

1080
00:49:45,160 --> 00:49:47,480
Speaker 1: there are significant tax benefits you can receive, or there

1081
00:49:47,480 --> 00:49:50,560
Speaker 1: are opportunity zones for real estate investors. I mean, there's

1082
00:49:50,600 --> 00:49:56,560
Speaker 1: all sorts of different tax benefits that incentivize us to

1083
00:49:56,640 --> 00:50:00,160
Speaker 1: do different things. And this is just a really real

1084
00:50:00,360 --> 00:50:03,400
Speaker 1: big one, right, like big tax benefits for a big

1085
00:50:03,480 --> 00:50:08,239
Speaker 1: move in order to attract investment to an island that

1086
00:50:09,040 --> 00:50:12,600
Speaker 1: was under capitalized and that didn't have the sort of

1087
00:50:12,800 --> 00:50:15,919
Speaker 1: capital that it needed to get built up in Prive.

1088
00:50:16,040 --> 00:50:19,480
Speaker 1: And so I just I thought this was interesting. And

1089
00:50:20,120 --> 00:50:22,640
Speaker 1: my guess is that the vast majority of you aren't

1090
00:50:22,680 --> 00:50:26,400
Speaker 1: buying playing tickets and moving tomorrow. But I hope you

1091
00:50:26,480 --> 00:50:29,480
Speaker 1: found it at least enlightening and it got you thinking

1092
00:50:29,800 --> 00:50:32,759
Speaker 1: about what am I paying in taxes? And are there

1093
00:50:32,800 --> 00:50:35,360
Speaker 1: interesting ways that I can save that I hadn't thought about?

1094
00:50:35,640 --> 00:50:38,440
Speaker 1: And I don't know, maybe for a small handful of you,

1095
00:50:38,440 --> 00:50:41,680
Speaker 1: you might say, actually, I didn't realize that I could

1096
00:50:41,719 --> 00:50:45,320
Speaker 1: save so dang much and run my business from Puerto

1097
00:50:45,400 --> 00:50:47,360
Speaker 1: Rico and pay a heck of a lot less in

1098
00:50:47,440 --> 00:50:52,439
Speaker 1: tax or be an investor in Puerto Rico and save

1099
00:50:52,480 --> 00:50:55,160
Speaker 1: a lot. And maybe that piqued you're interested enough to

1100
00:50:55,160 --> 00:50:58,919
Speaker 1: look into it a little bit further. But definitely an

1101
00:50:59,080 --> 00:51:02,880
Speaker 1: interesting conversation. And while I'll be staying put, keeping my

1102
00:51:03,000 --> 00:51:06,320
Speaker 1: kids in their schools and staying close to friends and family,

1103
00:51:06,960 --> 00:51:09,000
Speaker 1: you might have other priorities. All Right, that's going to

1104
00:51:09,040 --> 00:51:11,960
Speaker 1: do it for this episode. I hope to see you

1105
00:51:12,000 --> 00:51:15,640
Speaker 1: back here on Friday for our Friday Flights, where we

1106
00:51:15,719 --> 00:51:18,359
Speaker 1: cover the news stories from this week and how they

1107
00:51:18,360 --> 00:51:22,920
Speaker 1: pertain to your personal finances. Until next time, Best Friend Out,