1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:02,759 Speaker 1: Family Secrets is a production of iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:06,280 --> 00:00:08,319 Speaker 2: If you ask me where I'm from, I'll lie to you. 3 00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:11,319 Speaker 2: I'll tell you my parents are missionaries. I'll tell you 4 00:00:11,360 --> 00:00:15,560 Speaker 2: I'm from Boston. I'll tell you I'm from Texas. Those lies. 5 00:00:15,600 --> 00:00:18,520 Speaker 2: People believe I'm better at lying than I am at 6 00:00:18,520 --> 00:00:21,000 Speaker 2: telling the truth, because the lies don't make me nervous. 7 00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:23,799 Speaker 2: It's the truth, the thought of telling it the triggers 8 00:00:23,840 --> 00:00:26,639 Speaker 2: my awkward laugh, in my sweaty palms, makes me not 9 00:00:26,680 --> 00:00:28,680 Speaker 2: want to look you in the eye. I know I 10 00:00:28,680 --> 00:00:30,360 Speaker 2: won't like what I'll see. 11 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:35,839 Speaker 1: That's Lauren Huff, Austin based writer and author of the 12 00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:41,159 Speaker 1: essay collection Leaving Isn't the Hardest Thing. Lauren's is a 13 00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:46,040 Speaker 1: story of courage, transformation, and one woman's will and spirit 14 00:00:46,400 --> 00:00:49,560 Speaker 1: to find a way out, to find a way through, 15 00:00:50,360 --> 00:00:54,800 Speaker 1: to find a path toward the most authentic version of herself. 16 00:01:06,760 --> 00:01:10,679 Speaker 1: I'm Danny Shapiro, and this is Family Secrets. The secrets 17 00:01:10,680 --> 00:01:13,200 Speaker 1: that are kept from us, the secrets we keep from others, 18 00:01:13,560 --> 00:01:23,759 Speaker 1: and the secrets we keep from ourselves. Tell me about 19 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:27,720 Speaker 1: the landscape or landscapes of your childhood. 20 00:01:28,520 --> 00:01:30,920 Speaker 2: I grew up everywhere. I mean, there are there are 21 00:01:31,160 --> 00:01:33,920 Speaker 2: places that I think affected me more than others and 22 00:01:33,959 --> 00:01:37,000 Speaker 2: that I remember more than others. I was born in Berlin, Germany, 23 00:01:37,880 --> 00:01:41,720 Speaker 2: and have no really early childhood memories of that. We 24 00:01:41,840 --> 00:01:45,520 Speaker 2: left when I was I think one or two, went 25 00:01:45,560 --> 00:01:50,480 Speaker 2: to Switzerland and then Argentina and Chile, and I don't 26 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:53,639 Speaker 2: remember those much either. We came back to the States 27 00:01:53,640 --> 00:01:56,880 Speaker 2: for a while to Amrili, Texas, or my grandmother lived, 28 00:01:57,120 --> 00:02:01,200 Speaker 2: and then went to Japan Osaka for a couple of years, 29 00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:05,960 Speaker 2: and then back to Switzerland and Germany and then back 30 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:07,000 Speaker 2: to Amillo, Texas. 31 00:02:07,720 --> 00:02:11,800 Speaker 1: If you could pinpoint what your first memory was, what 32 00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:13,720 Speaker 1: do you see and sort of how old were you 33 00:02:13,919 --> 00:02:15,160 Speaker 1: when you see it? 34 00:02:15,160 --> 00:02:18,960 Speaker 2: It's funny. I went back to Berlin, and because I 35 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:22,320 Speaker 2: was born in a commune, the address of the commune 36 00:02:22,360 --> 00:02:24,200 Speaker 2: is on my birth certificate, so I was able to 37 00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:27,440 Speaker 2: find the flat where I was born, and I have 38 00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:31,720 Speaker 2: this very early memory of feeding little birds and sitting 39 00:02:31,760 --> 00:02:34,760 Speaker 2: on those green glass tiles in front of an apartment, 40 00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:38,840 Speaker 2: and the apartment still had those green glass tiles out 41 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:42,079 Speaker 2: in front of it, So I remember something from when 42 00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:44,840 Speaker 2: I was maybe one and a half years old, But 43 00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:47,720 Speaker 2: that's the only memory I have, as those little birds. 44 00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:50,960 Speaker 1: Was that memory something that you had before you went 45 00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:52,760 Speaker 1: back and then it was confirmed or did it come 46 00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:54,840 Speaker 1: to you when you went back to Berlin as an adult. 47 00:02:55,520 --> 00:02:59,480 Speaker 2: I was always asking where the green tiles were, just 48 00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:02,360 Speaker 2: trying to different memories somewhere, because I have two older 49 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:04,480 Speaker 2: sisters and I'll ask them, you know, what was the 50 00:03:04,480 --> 00:03:06,000 Speaker 2: house with the goats in it? And they'll tell me 51 00:03:06,040 --> 00:03:08,839 Speaker 2: that it was in Mendoza in Argentina. Or I'll ask 52 00:03:08,880 --> 00:03:11,200 Speaker 2: them what was the house with the avocado tree and 53 00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:13,480 Speaker 2: they'll tell me that was Santiago, or the house with 54 00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:15,480 Speaker 2: the hay on the roof. You know, these things that 55 00:03:15,560 --> 00:03:18,480 Speaker 2: you see as a child that it's not the same 56 00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:21,080 Speaker 2: thing as the adults see. The birds in the green 57 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:23,680 Speaker 2: titles were one of those questions I was asking, and 58 00:03:23,919 --> 00:03:24,960 Speaker 2: they didn't know where that was. 59 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:31,160 Speaker 1: Lauren is one of four. She has two older sisters 60 00:03:31,360 --> 00:03:34,960 Speaker 1: and a little brother, Mikey. Together with their parents, they 61 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:40,040 Speaker 1: are members of a commune, a cult called Children of God. 62 00:03:41,920 --> 00:03:44,280 Speaker 2: It's one of those things where it doesn't seem real now, 63 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:49,480 Speaker 2: but that was my reality and anything else seems unreal 64 00:03:49,760 --> 00:03:53,280 Speaker 2: that you know. We lived in sometimes small, sometimes very 65 00:03:53,360 --> 00:03:58,320 Speaker 2: large communes, sometimes in campgrounds, with a few other family 66 00:03:58,320 --> 00:04:02,120 Speaker 2: members in other campers. In Stuttgart, we lived on a 67 00:04:02,160 --> 00:04:05,640 Speaker 2: camper for a while and the cornfield that we used 68 00:04:05,640 --> 00:04:08,560 Speaker 2: to run through because it was a lot of adults, 69 00:04:08,880 --> 00:04:11,000 Speaker 2: and I don't really have many memories of the adults. 70 00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:14,840 Speaker 2: I have memories of kids everywhere all the time. And 71 00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:16,799 Speaker 2: when I was a kid, it seemed great. You always 72 00:04:16,839 --> 00:04:21,200 Speaker 2: had someone to play with. They weren't really strict about 73 00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:24,560 Speaker 2: childcare or schooling or anything else. We just played all day, 74 00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:28,400 Speaker 2: which was great for me. I have this picture of 75 00:04:28,520 --> 00:04:33,159 Speaker 2: my parents on my wall that I found a on 76 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:38,960 Speaker 2: occult website and I framed it because I held a 77 00:04:38,960 --> 00:04:41,120 Speaker 2: lot of anger to them for a lot of my childhood. 78 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:44,560 Speaker 2: You know, how could you possibly join a cult? But 79 00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:47,720 Speaker 2: no one joins the cult they you know, my fam 80 00:04:47,839 --> 00:04:50,919 Speaker 2: My mother was going to University of Texas and the 81 00:04:50,960 --> 00:04:54,280 Speaker 2: cult was heavily recruiting here, and they came over to 82 00:04:54,320 --> 00:04:56,520 Speaker 2: her and did what they do. Do you want to 83 00:04:56,560 --> 00:05:00,719 Speaker 2: hear a song about Jesus? They find depressed, isolated kids 84 00:05:01,760 --> 00:05:05,400 Speaker 2: and show them unconditional love and a cause and belonging 85 00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:09,120 Speaker 2: and they join. And they're joining a movement. They're joining, 86 00:05:09,279 --> 00:05:11,680 Speaker 2: you know, a community of people who take care of 87 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:14,320 Speaker 2: one another. By the time you realize what you've done, 88 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:17,920 Speaker 2: it's way too late. My father was he was trying 89 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:19,800 Speaker 2: to dodge the draft. He was going to hitchhipe to 90 00:05:19,839 --> 00:05:24,520 Speaker 2: Mexico and he met them outside a library in Dallas. 91 00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:27,080 Speaker 2: And it's the classic don't follow the hippies to the 92 00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:30,880 Speaker 2: second location, because the second location was their commune in Texas. 93 00:05:31,240 --> 00:05:33,920 Speaker 2: They had a huge ranch outside of Dallas, which was 94 00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:38,520 Speaker 2: where they originally kind of kicked up right around seventy one. 95 00:05:39,279 --> 00:05:41,800 Speaker 1: And so your parents met in the cult itself. 96 00:05:42,320 --> 00:05:44,839 Speaker 2: Yeah, they met in the cult. They were driving around 97 00:05:44,839 --> 00:05:48,599 Speaker 2: in a double decker bus in England and my father 98 00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:51,680 Speaker 2: was always the carpenter guy who could he still can, 99 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:54,160 Speaker 2: he can build anything, and he had decked out the 100 00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:57,479 Speaker 2: bus with out a little kitchen and everything he needed 101 00:05:57,480 --> 00:06:00,240 Speaker 2: in it so they could travel around England and their 102 00:06:00,279 --> 00:06:03,600 Speaker 2: minds tell people about Jesus. And someone suggested that they 103 00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:07,560 Speaker 2: should have a mass wedding. It would be super revolutionary man, 104 00:06:08,680 --> 00:06:10,719 Speaker 2: and my dad thought my mom was pretty so he 105 00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:15,040 Speaker 2: asked her and that was said. They're completely ill suited 106 00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:18,560 Speaker 2: to one another. But uh, it lasted long enough for 107 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:20,920 Speaker 2: them to have the four of us. 108 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:26,040 Speaker 1: Every cult has a charismatic leader. In the case of 109 00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:30,320 Speaker 1: Children of God, that's a man named David Berg. Berg 110 00:06:30,520 --> 00:06:34,160 Speaker 1: grew up the son of a tent evangelist named Virginia Burg, 111 00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:37,520 Speaker 1: who had become famous during the Great Depression during tent 112 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:41,440 Speaker 1: Revival meetings. As an adult, he wanted to start his 113 00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:44,120 Speaker 1: own thing and prayed on the hippies who hung out 114 00:06:44,160 --> 00:06:48,400 Speaker 1: on Huntington Beach in California. Berg and his kids would 115 00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:51,839 Speaker 1: sing songs and offer hippies day old doughnuts. You just 116 00:06:51,880 --> 00:06:54,080 Speaker 1: had to come hear about Jesus for a little while. 117 00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:58,200 Speaker 1: In the beginning, it was all peace and love, but 118 00:06:58,279 --> 00:07:01,279 Speaker 1: eventually this changed into an obsession with the end of 119 00:07:01,320 --> 00:07:05,600 Speaker 1: the world. The Antichrist was coming, the apocalypse was near. 120 00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:09,440 Speaker 1: The cult moved to a ranch in Texas, but media 121 00:07:09,480 --> 00:07:13,560 Speaker 1: attention was intense, and David Berg disappeared. He ran the 122 00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:16,400 Speaker 1: cult from a secret hiding place where he drank a 123 00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:19,920 Speaker 1: lot of sherry and made his pronouncements via something he 124 00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:23,960 Speaker 1: called Moe letters. One of these letters laid down the 125 00:07:24,040 --> 00:07:28,040 Speaker 1: law of Love, and Children of God became a sex cult. 126 00:07:29,320 --> 00:07:32,080 Speaker 1: When Lauren is six years old, she and her parents 127 00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:34,800 Speaker 1: leave the cult for a short while and return to 128 00:07:34,840 --> 00:07:38,400 Speaker 1: the States in a bid to save their marriage. When 129 00:07:38,440 --> 00:07:41,960 Speaker 1: their marriage falters the following year, Lauren's dad takes her 130 00:07:41,960 --> 00:07:45,040 Speaker 1: two older sisters back to Germany and they returned to 131 00:07:45,080 --> 00:07:49,680 Speaker 1: cult life. There, the family is split up. Mom takes 132 00:07:49,720 --> 00:07:52,000 Speaker 1: Lauren and her little brother, and the three of them 133 00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:55,840 Speaker 1: eventually also returned to the cult, first in Dallas, and 134 00:07:55,920 --> 00:07:59,160 Speaker 1: then when Lauren's ten, they're off to Osaka, Japan. 135 00:08:01,640 --> 00:08:03,880 Speaker 2: We went from Amory a little to Dallas to rejoin. 136 00:08:04,600 --> 00:08:07,679 Speaker 2: They were doing a push to to find old members 137 00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:11,160 Speaker 2: who had left. I guess their numbers were down, and 138 00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:14,320 Speaker 2: they invited my mother to this meeting in Dallas, and 139 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:18,600 Speaker 2: we almost immediately moved back into a family home and 140 00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:21,920 Speaker 2: went to Osaka. I mean, I wish I could tell 141 00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:23,760 Speaker 2: you the kids were all right. No, the kids were 142 00:08:23,760 --> 00:08:27,560 Speaker 2: not all right. The kids were I was protected from 143 00:08:27,760 --> 00:08:31,120 Speaker 2: some of it, just because we were in smaller homes 144 00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:36,920 Speaker 2: and not near central leadership where things were a little wilder. 145 00:08:38,160 --> 00:08:42,199 Speaker 2: But yeah, I have I have vague memories of things 146 00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:46,040 Speaker 2: the kids shouldn't have seen and shouldn't have been involved in. Yeah, 147 00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:48,760 Speaker 2: I mean I was sheltered a little bit, even by 148 00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:52,600 Speaker 2: my sisters. I remember my oldest sister waking us up 149 00:08:52,640 --> 00:08:55,199 Speaker 2: and carrying my little brother out of a room because 150 00:08:55,240 --> 00:08:59,040 Speaker 2: the adults were having an orgy and telling us not 151 00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:03,080 Speaker 2: to look. But we'd gone to some huge comment for 152 00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:05,200 Speaker 2: a party and we'd fallen asleep under a table because 153 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:07,839 Speaker 2: it was going late into the night, and she woke 154 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:10,080 Speaker 2: up and realized what was going on, and hearded us 155 00:09:10,120 --> 00:09:14,240 Speaker 2: out as there. But it depended on who your parents were, 156 00:09:14,360 --> 00:09:17,320 Speaker 2: depended on what homes you were in, what happened to you. 157 00:09:18,280 --> 00:09:22,000 Speaker 2: My brother and I lived under the assumption for most 158 00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:25,280 Speaker 2: of our lives that our dad just left and chose 159 00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:29,040 Speaker 2: our sisters and not us and didn't want anything to 160 00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:33,559 Speaker 2: do with us, and he never corrected the record. What 161 00:09:33,600 --> 00:09:36,959 Speaker 2: we now know happened is he he left. He went 162 00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:39,199 Speaker 2: to Germany. He was supposed to find a job and 163 00:09:39,440 --> 00:09:42,400 Speaker 2: an apartment, and once he did that, my mom was 164 00:09:42,440 --> 00:09:45,280 Speaker 2: going to come with us, and she sent him divorce 165 00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:49,080 Speaker 2: papers instead and told him to choose to But my 166 00:09:49,160 --> 00:09:52,520 Speaker 2: brother and I recently found out. I found out a 167 00:09:52,559 --> 00:09:56,240 Speaker 2: few years ago. My brother just found out I lived 168 00:09:56,240 --> 00:09:59,000 Speaker 2: in Austin and he lives in New England. He'd come 169 00:09:59,040 --> 00:10:01,160 Speaker 2: down here to pick up a part for his wife, 170 00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:03,840 Speaker 2: and we had a few drinks with my dad, and 171 00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:07,800 Speaker 2: my dad finally told him, and my brother and I 172 00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:11,160 Speaker 2: sat in my living room for the next day just 173 00:10:11,240 --> 00:10:15,560 Speaker 2: kind of looking at each other, going, so, so he wanted us. Yep, 174 00:10:17,480 --> 00:10:23,000 Speaker 2: all right, even at I'm forty seven, he's forty five. 175 00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:27,280 Speaker 2: It's still sort of instantly fixes a lot of things 176 00:10:27,320 --> 00:10:29,640 Speaker 2: that would have been nice to know. 177 00:10:30,559 --> 00:10:34,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, which is such a complicated idea, The idea like 178 00:10:34,160 --> 00:10:39,480 Speaker 1: that the narrative shifts and the narratives that you and 179 00:10:39,559 --> 00:10:42,760 Speaker 1: your brother had, as you know, this was the story 180 00:10:43,120 --> 00:10:46,240 Speaker 1: ends up not being the story, and it's a better story. 181 00:10:46,840 --> 00:10:50,559 Speaker 2: It's an absolute tragedy, but it's a better story for 182 00:10:50,679 --> 00:10:53,360 Speaker 2: our the sense of who we are that you know, 183 00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:55,560 Speaker 2: our dad did want us. 184 00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:58,200 Speaker 1: And yet you lived for all those years with that 185 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:02,920 Speaker 1: other story, which probably you know dies a slow death 186 00:11:03,080 --> 00:11:06,280 Speaker 1: in a way because it was your story for so long. 187 00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:10,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it took me. I found out a few years, 188 00:11:10,760 --> 00:11:13,480 Speaker 2: you know. I recently sort of reconnected with my father 189 00:11:13,520 --> 00:11:16,160 Speaker 2: when I moved down here and he lived here, and 190 00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:18,360 Speaker 2: I've just been angry at him for most of my 191 00:11:18,440 --> 00:11:21,839 Speaker 2: life because he left me, and he told me when 192 00:11:21,880 --> 00:11:24,240 Speaker 2: I moved down here one night on his piktack and 193 00:11:24,280 --> 00:11:30,640 Speaker 2: it shifted everything. But there's also, you know, those regrets 194 00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:34,160 Speaker 2: of really kind of wish someone had told me earlier. 195 00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:37,640 Speaker 2: But he didn't think it was his place. He didn't 196 00:11:37,640 --> 00:11:40,640 Speaker 2: want to take our mother from us too. And we're 197 00:11:40,679 --> 00:11:42,760 Speaker 2: at the age now or it doesn't affect the way 198 00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:44,920 Speaker 2: we feel about our mother. We know here she is, 199 00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:47,400 Speaker 2: We love her a lot. She is who she is. 200 00:11:48,520 --> 00:11:51,840 Speaker 1: Did you wrestle with whether or not to tell your 201 00:11:51,840 --> 00:11:53,880 Speaker 1: brother during those years, or did you feel that it 202 00:11:53,920 --> 00:11:55,600 Speaker 1: was your father's story to tell. 203 00:11:57,320 --> 00:12:01,880 Speaker 2: I thought about it. He's been our dad too for 204 00:12:01,920 --> 00:12:06,280 Speaker 2: a long time, and he's made allusions to you know, 205 00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:09,000 Speaker 2: it's just like this old man and he's probably knows 206 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:12,000 Speaker 2: he's dying soon and wants to reconnect with me. And 207 00:12:12,040 --> 00:12:14,840 Speaker 2: I guess that's fine. And I wanted to tell him 208 00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:18,200 Speaker 2: so badly, but I didn't think he would hear it. 209 00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:18,960 Speaker 2: Covering from me. 210 00:12:23,880 --> 00:12:37,880 Speaker 1: We'll be back in a moment with more family secrets. 211 00:12:39,200 --> 00:12:42,520 Speaker 1: After her parents divorced, Lauren's mother had met a man 212 00:12:42,559 --> 00:12:45,880 Speaker 1: in Texas named Gabe. Gabe was a bartender, not part 213 00:12:45,920 --> 00:12:47,960 Speaker 1: of the Children of God when they met, but he 214 00:12:48,080 --> 00:12:51,240 Speaker 1: ended up joining. Of course, Lauren's mom didn't pitch it 215 00:12:51,280 --> 00:12:54,640 Speaker 1: to him as a cult. That word only came long after. 216 00:12:55,679 --> 00:12:58,359 Speaker 1: At the time, she considered herself to be a missionary 217 00:12:58,679 --> 00:13:02,559 Speaker 1: fighting the good fight, going overseas to teach people about Jesus. 218 00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:05,760 Speaker 1: Gabe was a religious man to begin with, so the 219 00:13:05,800 --> 00:13:08,600 Speaker 1: mission appealed to him and he joined the family on 220 00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:13,800 Speaker 1: their path. But after five years in Osaka, when Lauren 221 00:13:13,920 --> 00:13:17,040 Speaker 1: is fifteen, her mom decides it's time to leave again, 222 00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:20,560 Speaker 1: this time for good. She wakes up to the fact 223 00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:23,160 Speaker 1: that her children aren't getting any sort of real education 224 00:13:23,280 --> 00:13:27,200 Speaker 1: there and she can't protect them from abuse. She also 225 00:13:27,240 --> 00:13:30,240 Speaker 1: wants Lauren's sisters to leave the cult, and knows there's 226 00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:33,480 Speaker 1: a better chance of this happening if she leaves. Two 227 00:13:33,760 --> 00:13:36,719 Speaker 1: Lauren and Mikey go to live with their grandmother in Amarillo. 228 00:13:36,920 --> 00:13:40,160 Speaker 1: Lauren's sisters, however, stay in the cult for a little 229 00:13:40,160 --> 00:13:40,720 Speaker 1: while longer. 230 00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:45,400 Speaker 2: That was hard on my mom too. We didn't know 231 00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:48,480 Speaker 2: if they would ever follow us out. Once you were 232 00:13:48,520 --> 00:13:51,640 Speaker 2: a teenager in the family, you could stay on your own. 233 00:13:51,720 --> 00:13:55,120 Speaker 2: You didn't have to leave with your parents. And part 234 00:13:55,160 --> 00:13:59,600 Speaker 2: of the reason they split people up so thoroughly put 235 00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:01,200 Speaker 2: a lot of kids didn't live with their in the 236 00:14:01,200 --> 00:14:03,719 Speaker 2: same homes with their parents. A lot of us were 237 00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:07,400 Speaker 2: split up, whether our parents were divorced or intact or not. 238 00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:11,400 Speaker 2: And they put kids in schools, not actual schools, they 239 00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:13,439 Speaker 2: were homes that were called schools. And then we'd learn 240 00:14:13,480 --> 00:14:16,360 Speaker 2: about Jesus and Me in time in the anti Christ 241 00:14:16,400 --> 00:14:19,600 Speaker 2: all day. But they split people up. Teenagers would go 242 00:14:19,640 --> 00:14:21,880 Speaker 2: to teen homes. There was no way she could get 243 00:14:21,880 --> 00:14:25,200 Speaker 2: them out. So when we left, she made it her 244 00:14:25,640 --> 00:14:29,360 Speaker 2: mission from that point on to get my sisters out. 245 00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:32,040 Speaker 2: They would come to visit, and she made them get 246 00:14:32,040 --> 00:14:34,560 Speaker 2: their gedes and driver's licenses so that they would have 247 00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:39,960 Speaker 2: something to fall back on should they leave. And yeah, 248 00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:41,720 Speaker 2: it was. It was a full court press. Every time 249 00:14:41,840 --> 00:14:45,080 Speaker 2: they did come to visit. My mom would gather. All right, 250 00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:47,600 Speaker 2: So we don't talk about it about the family. We 251 00:14:47,680 --> 00:14:51,680 Speaker 2: don't talk anything about you know, David Berg. We don't 252 00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:54,320 Speaker 2: discuss any of it. We're really proud of them, we're 253 00:14:54,320 --> 00:14:57,280 Speaker 2: happy they're doing what they're doing, because if we made 254 00:14:57,320 --> 00:14:59,320 Speaker 2: ourselves enemies of the cult, they wouldn't be allowed to 255 00:14:59,360 --> 00:14:59,800 Speaker 2: come visit. 256 00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:04,120 Speaker 1: And to top that off, you're fifteen years old, write 257 00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:08,280 Speaker 1: smack dab in the middle of adolescents, and you have 258 00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:14,800 Speaker 1: no learned social skills of the kind that happen when 259 00:15:14,920 --> 00:15:19,840 Speaker 1: kids are growing up in an environment that isn't a bubble. 260 00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:25,040 Speaker 1: You're being quote unquote homeschooled, which basically it isn't school, right, 261 00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:26,320 Speaker 1: it isn't school at all. 262 00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:30,280 Speaker 2: We signed up for a correspondence courses. Now they did 263 00:15:30,280 --> 00:15:33,920 Speaker 2: it pre internet. They would mail you books and materials. 264 00:15:34,440 --> 00:15:36,920 Speaker 2: I would read through the books for the year in 265 00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:41,200 Speaker 2: the first night, and then we would randomly have to 266 00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:44,320 Speaker 2: pass little tests that they would mail in and you 267 00:15:44,320 --> 00:15:46,840 Speaker 2: would get your grade. But no, my brother and I 268 00:15:46,840 --> 00:15:48,720 Speaker 2: spent most of the day watching TV. My mom was 269 00:15:48,760 --> 00:15:54,440 Speaker 2: cleaning houses. Gabe was off giving one of those how 270 00:15:54,440 --> 00:15:57,560 Speaker 2: to make a million dollars. He joined I think at 271 00:15:57,680 --> 00:16:04,280 Speaker 2: least four pyramid schemes, but he was not going to 272 00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:07,400 Speaker 2: work for a living. It's determined to not. But yeah, 273 00:16:07,400 --> 00:16:08,840 Speaker 2: they were gone during the day, so we would watch 274 00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:12,360 Speaker 2: TV and try to learn how to be human. 275 00:16:16,760 --> 00:16:22,200 Speaker 1: Lauren's grandmother was, in Lauren's words, Amarillo's soul liberal. She's 276 00:16:22,280 --> 00:16:26,280 Speaker 1: unusual in other ways as well. Even though outside of 277 00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:30,280 Speaker 1: family members aren't supposed to visit the commune. Lauren's grandmother 278 00:16:30,520 --> 00:16:34,200 Speaker 1: manages to do just that. She sits through sermons and 279 00:16:34,280 --> 00:16:37,120 Speaker 1: listens to them preach at her. She sings along with 280 00:16:37,160 --> 00:16:40,720 Speaker 1: all the songs she helps in the kitchen, anything to 281 00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:42,880 Speaker 1: keep her daughter and her grandchildren close. 282 00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:46,680 Speaker 2: I didn't see it at the time, but I know 283 00:16:46,760 --> 00:16:48,720 Speaker 2: now it was calculated that the only way she was 284 00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:52,280 Speaker 2: going to maintain contact with her daughters if she remained, 285 00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:55,480 Speaker 2: you know, super friendly to the cult. And you know 286 00:16:55,520 --> 00:16:58,760 Speaker 2: I can't join myself, but I really support everything you 287 00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:01,320 Speaker 2: guys are doing. And this is terrisa. Take it now, 288 00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:03,400 Speaker 2: let's sing another song about Jesus. 289 00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:07,080 Speaker 1: Well, in a way, your mom replicated that a little 290 00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:09,720 Speaker 1: bit when your sisters would come to visit. 291 00:17:09,840 --> 00:17:12,800 Speaker 2: She did. She learned from the best. May like kurrn Of, 292 00:17:12,840 --> 00:17:15,080 Speaker 2: there was a little bit subversive. She was always sending 293 00:17:15,160 --> 00:17:18,320 Speaker 2: me books, just whatever paperback she had laying around the house. 294 00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:20,199 Speaker 2: Clearly there would be a Danielle Steele, and there are 295 00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:24,320 Speaker 2: a Jackie Collins, arn't a copy of White Fang. But 296 00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:26,879 Speaker 2: then there would be a copy of The Handmaid's Tale. 297 00:17:27,080 --> 00:17:30,520 Speaker 2: And my mother would would let me keep the books, 298 00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:34,199 Speaker 2: which I would have to hide them under my mattress. 299 00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:35,959 Speaker 2: I got caught with them, I would be in trouble, 300 00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:40,600 Speaker 2: but most families didn't, didn't give their kids books. I 301 00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:43,040 Speaker 2: don't know many kids who did have access to books, 302 00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:45,520 Speaker 2: but I did because my grandmother made sure of it. 303 00:17:47,720 --> 00:17:51,520 Speaker 1: Lauren's grandmother is providing a robust education for her, giving 304 00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:55,600 Speaker 1: her access to all sorts of reading material. And then, 305 00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:57,879 Speaker 1: when Lauren's in her senior year of high school, she 306 00:17:57,960 --> 00:18:03,160 Speaker 1: actually goes to high school, person her world widens. Suddenly 307 00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:07,240 Speaker 1: she's part of a whole new social landscape. Things aren't 308 00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:11,639 Speaker 1: going terrifically for her. Socially, she hasn't exactly had much experience, 309 00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:17,120 Speaker 1: but she's figuring it out. One day during her senior year, 310 00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:22,440 Speaker 1: she comes across a newspaper obituary for David Berg. She's 311 00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:26,040 Speaker 1: shocked to learn he's died, and she rips out the clipping, 312 00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:28,760 Speaker 1: folds it up, and stuffs it into her jeans pocket. 313 00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:32,760 Speaker 1: She hoards it away for later, knowing she needs to 314 00:18:32,840 --> 00:18:36,399 Speaker 1: study it, read it carefully, and look at the photograph 315 00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:39,639 Speaker 1: of a man she'd never seen before, but who impacted 316 00:18:39,640 --> 00:18:43,639 Speaker 1: her family's life so much. She shows the clipping to 317 00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:47,040 Speaker 1: Mikey and to her mom, both of whom encourage her 318 00:18:47,359 --> 00:18:50,240 Speaker 1: to never tell anyone she'd been part of a cult. 319 00:18:50,920 --> 00:18:53,879 Speaker 1: Her mother warns her to never speak of it again. 320 00:18:57,440 --> 00:19:00,159 Speaker 2: It took me a really long time to let that 321 00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:03,399 Speaker 2: idea go because it sunk in and we were told 322 00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:05,600 Speaker 2: and when we were little kids, we lied to my 323 00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:07,560 Speaker 2: grandmother about where we were and what we were doing. 324 00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:09,879 Speaker 2: We lied to my cousins, we lied to everybody who 325 00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:13,280 Speaker 2: was not in the family. We were just Christian missionaries, 326 00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:18,000 Speaker 2: definitely not affiliated with those people anymore. We always changed 327 00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:20,359 Speaker 2: our names in the cult, and we always have to 328 00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:22,760 Speaker 2: practice when we would come back to visit to use 329 00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:26,480 Speaker 2: our legal names that people knew us by it, because 330 00:19:26,760 --> 00:19:29,920 Speaker 2: you know, you can't call your sister esther when that's 331 00:19:29,920 --> 00:19:33,479 Speaker 2: not her name, anything that could raise a question. We 332 00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:36,359 Speaker 2: were paranoid about it, and we were taught to be 333 00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:40,240 Speaker 2: paranoid about it. I understand where my mother was coming from, 334 00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:44,359 Speaker 2: and I understand her fears about it, but at the 335 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:48,919 Speaker 2: same time, it created this this secret that was so 336 00:19:49,280 --> 00:19:52,720 Speaker 2: isolating because there was a huge part of my life 337 00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:55,480 Speaker 2: that I thought I could never tell anyone, and I 338 00:19:55,600 --> 00:19:59,080 Speaker 2: believed her and I believed you know. The little experience 339 00:19:59,119 --> 00:20:03,719 Speaker 2: I had with with people knowing about the cult is 340 00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:06,480 Speaker 2: that you know, they look at you strange, and they 341 00:20:06,560 --> 00:20:10,080 Speaker 2: look at you funny, and you know, they take people's 342 00:20:10,119 --> 00:20:14,159 Speaker 2: kids away, and there were homes rated where you know, 343 00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:16,919 Speaker 2: children were taken into foster care. But it seemed like 344 00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:21,359 Speaker 2: this huge secret that I had to keep, and I 345 00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:24,080 Speaker 2: didn't even know where. I didn't know how to explain 346 00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:26,159 Speaker 2: it to myself, much less how to explain it to 347 00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:27,199 Speaker 2: another person. 348 00:20:30,119 --> 00:20:32,879 Speaker 1: And the cult wasn't the only secret Lauren was keeping. 349 00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:36,639 Speaker 1: There was another kind of secret, the secret of her 350 00:20:36,760 --> 00:20:37,400 Speaker 1: very self. 351 00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:42,240 Speaker 2: I know I wasn't interested in men or boys, but 352 00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:47,119 Speaker 2: I liked hanging out with them, and for the most part, 353 00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:49,359 Speaker 2: I got really lucky with guys. Like my high school 354 00:20:49,359 --> 00:20:53,760 Speaker 2: boyfriend was a rodeo cowboy and just a really sweet guy, 355 00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:57,240 Speaker 2: and I would go out to his ranch and ride horses, 356 00:20:57,320 --> 00:21:00,520 Speaker 2: and sometimes he would grind on me and try to 357 00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:02,600 Speaker 2: fill me up, but he was a good Christian boy 358 00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:04,840 Speaker 2: and that's as far as it went. So that was 359 00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:06,680 Speaker 2: just something I had to put up with in order 360 00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:09,960 Speaker 2: to ride horses or have a boyfriend and be normal 361 00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:14,120 Speaker 2: like everybody else. I assumed everybody was the same way 362 00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:16,560 Speaker 2: about men. It didn't occur to me that there were 363 00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:20,000 Speaker 2: girls who enjoyed having sex with boys. I was in 364 00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:22,000 Speaker 2: my thirties before I realized that there are girls who 365 00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:28,080 Speaker 2: enjoy giving blowjobs. I just, why would you? It didn't 366 00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:32,560 Speaker 2: occur to me, but I didn't realize I was listen. 367 00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:35,840 Speaker 2: I had feelings. There was the Freedom ninety video that 368 00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:40,120 Speaker 2: George Michael won and eventually start sitting against the wall 369 00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:42,840 Speaker 2: smoking a cigarette. I definitely had feelings about it, but 370 00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:46,760 Speaker 2: I didn't recognize those as homosexual feelings or that I 371 00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:51,080 Speaker 2: was gay. I couldn't possibly be, because they I had 372 00:21:51,119 --> 00:21:53,640 Speaker 2: always been a tomboy growing up, and they had always 373 00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:58,280 Speaker 2: had me praying against this homosexual spirit. And to admit 374 00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:01,320 Speaker 2: that I might be gay, they would be to admit 375 00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:03,919 Speaker 2: that they were right about me, and I couldn't. I 376 00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:06,359 Speaker 2: couldn't do it. I went into the Air Force right 377 00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:11,520 Speaker 2: after high school, and I realized it then pretty quickly. 378 00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:14,320 Speaker 2: But it's not something that, oh, here's a moment where 379 00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:16,959 Speaker 2: I suddenly understand I'm the lesbian. I'd always known. I 380 00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:21,840 Speaker 2: just didn't say it out loud, even to myself. I 381 00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:24,480 Speaker 2: told my older sister first. When I was in the 382 00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:27,320 Speaker 2: Air Force. I went out to visit her in Rhode Island. 383 00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:33,479 Speaker 2: I was deeply depressed and really not sure what to 384 00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:35,439 Speaker 2: do about it or anything else, and I needed to 385 00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:40,119 Speaker 2: tell someone. And she had just left the family. She 386 00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:42,080 Speaker 2: and her husband had her into a little apartment in 387 00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:45,119 Speaker 2: Rhode Island with their two little kids at the time, 388 00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:48,480 Speaker 2: and we were hanging out in her kitchen. We're painting 389 00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:51,280 Speaker 2: it and peeling wallpaper, and you know, I was trying 390 00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:53,480 Speaker 2: to help her with as much as I could while 391 00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:56,760 Speaker 2: I was there, and I just sort of blurred it 392 00:22:56,800 --> 00:23:00,920 Speaker 2: out of what if I'm a lesbian? And she started 393 00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:07,600 Speaker 2: cackling because she was right. I mean, the sister reaction 394 00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:10,520 Speaker 2: you get is, yeah, she was right, and so she 395 00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:13,639 Speaker 2: was thrilled with that because she's been right about me 396 00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:19,520 Speaker 2: all along, and it sort of softened it. She claims 397 00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:21,720 Speaker 2: she didn't tell my mother, but I'm pretty sure she did. 398 00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:24,040 Speaker 2: She's got a big balance. I could not have told her. 399 00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:27,680 Speaker 2: But the one joy more than being right is telling 400 00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:28,280 Speaker 2: on each other. 401 00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:33,400 Speaker 1: So and I'm imagining that, realizing like that anyone within 402 00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:37,080 Speaker 1: children of God, that would have been just kind of 403 00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:40,200 Speaker 1: a massive, you know, like an unacceptable thing. 404 00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:45,560 Speaker 2: But gad, Yeah, I mean, Berg was your typical douchebag 405 00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:51,160 Speaker 2: founder prophet whenever of the children of God. So male 406 00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:56,080 Speaker 2: homosexuality was completely outlawed. Female homosexual lady was allowed as 407 00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:57,880 Speaker 2: long as you were doing it for the benefit of men. 408 00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:01,520 Speaker 2: So you could have sex was a woman if you 409 00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:04,879 Speaker 2: are an adult or whatever you considered old enough to 410 00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:07,480 Speaker 2: have sex that year, but it had to be with 411 00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:07,960 Speaker 2: a man. 412 00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:26,760 Speaker 1: We'll be right back. When Lauren joins the US military, 413 00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:29,359 Speaker 1: she has to tread even more carefully when it comes 414 00:24:29,359 --> 00:24:33,199 Speaker 1: to telling people about herself. Simple questions like where are 415 00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:36,760 Speaker 1: you from can lead down rabbit holes. If she starts 416 00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:39,000 Speaker 1: reeling off all the places she lived as a child, 417 00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:43,719 Speaker 1: that might be a flag. So she doesn't. She finds 418 00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:47,439 Speaker 1: the simplest things to say that will placate people, vague 419 00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:51,520 Speaker 1: answers that don't reveal much. This shields her and protects her, 420 00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:55,760 Speaker 1: but it also isolates her. It means she's not going 421 00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:59,280 Speaker 1: to be known, she's not going to be seen, she's 422 00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:00,880 Speaker 1: not going to be under stood. 423 00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:05,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a strange thing to live most of your 424 00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:09,560 Speaker 2: life desperately trying to not be interesting. It was mostly shame. 425 00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:12,600 Speaker 2: But you don't want to spark anyone's interest. You don't 426 00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:14,840 Speaker 2: want to give them an answer that would lead to 427 00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:19,119 Speaker 2: a follow up questurn So you say, and my parents 428 00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:24,280 Speaker 2: were weird hippies. We're missionaries for a while, and that doesn't, 429 00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:27,960 Speaker 2: from my experience, doesn't lead to many follow up questions. 430 00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:31,600 Speaker 2: They'll say, oh, lots of astrology. Yeah, I can tell 431 00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:35,080 Speaker 2: you anything about being a pisces, and then everybody likes 432 00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:39,000 Speaker 2: to discuss astrology, so you're good. But I was lying 433 00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:44,080 Speaker 2: about everything to everyone and biomission sure, but also I 434 00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:47,560 Speaker 2: didn't know how to make friends anyway. But I didn't 435 00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:50,199 Speaker 2: know what to talk to them about, because you know, 436 00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:54,119 Speaker 2: part of making a friend is, you know, figuring out 437 00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:56,920 Speaker 2: what your shared history is. If you ever met someone 438 00:25:56,920 --> 00:25:59,080 Speaker 2: from the same hometown, you know you have something to 439 00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:03,240 Speaker 2: talk about you. It's those initial things. So I tried 440 00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:06,960 Speaker 2: to find other things. I became a baseball fan so 441 00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:09,360 Speaker 2: that I could talk about the Red Sox and then 442 00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:13,920 Speaker 2: people wouldn't ask me about anything else. I would get 443 00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:17,679 Speaker 2: really into music so that I could talk about music, 444 00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:22,560 Speaker 2: and I could detour any conversation about my past and 445 00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:27,720 Speaker 2: just bring up something silly. They would ask why my parents, 446 00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:29,919 Speaker 2: and I'd say, my mom washpy, oh, yeah, she saw 447 00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:32,760 Speaker 2: Janis Joplin live, and then we could talk about Janis 448 00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:38,160 Speaker 2: Joplin anything to derail a conversation from why I don't 449 00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:41,560 Speaker 2: know any pop culture references. I also lived under this 450 00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:43,720 Speaker 2: suption that a lot of people knew a lot more 451 00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:46,240 Speaker 2: than I did, that they'd learned all these things in 452 00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:49,560 Speaker 2: school that I didn't. And it turns out I think 453 00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:52,679 Speaker 2: I learned picked up most of it by reading, but 454 00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:56,000 Speaker 2: that was still really self conscious about not knowing about 455 00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:57,400 Speaker 2: a TV show from the eighties. 456 00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:02,160 Speaker 1: It's such an interesting theme on this podcast has come 457 00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:06,280 Speaker 1: up so many times, family secrets and deflection, you know, 458 00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:11,840 Speaker 1: deflecting the curious, shutting down conversations in a really graceful way, 459 00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:14,600 Speaker 1: learning how to do that so that people won't even 460 00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:16,920 Speaker 1: know what hit them and suddenly they're talking about Janis 461 00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:20,720 Speaker 1: Joplin concerts or you know, astrology, and you know, it 462 00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:23,840 Speaker 1: just strikes me that it takes so much psychic energy 463 00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:27,080 Speaker 1: to do that, and yet it becomes sort of second 464 00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:29,399 Speaker 1: nature that this is what you have to do. And 465 00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:31,040 Speaker 1: then like during that period of time when you're in 466 00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:35,199 Speaker 1: the Air Force, there is this whole other layer of 467 00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:40,440 Speaker 1: secrecy because, as you said, you're enlisting and you're becoming 468 00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:44,920 Speaker 1: part of the Air Force kind of coincides with you're 469 00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:48,639 Speaker 1: coming out to yourself, and you're certainly not in an 470 00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:51,359 Speaker 1: environment where you can come out to the people around you, 471 00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:55,760 Speaker 1: and you're square solidly in the don't ask, don't tell 472 00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:58,720 Speaker 1: phase of the US military. 473 00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:05,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, for me, it was that complete isolation because I 474 00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:10,280 Speaker 2: was fighting in my past, but I was also hiding 475 00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:14,760 Speaker 2: who I was. It's you have to know when you 476 00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:17,639 Speaker 2: make a friend, whether or not you can trust who 477 00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:20,399 Speaker 2: they are when they're angry. There's a lot of people 478 00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:23,439 Speaker 2: get turned in by their exes or by you know, 479 00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:26,200 Speaker 2: someone's pissed at you. If you have someone money, if 480 00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:31,160 Speaker 2: you for whatever reason, at any point they could report 481 00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:33,119 Speaker 2: you and that could be the end of your career. 482 00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:37,720 Speaker 2: But I don't think I realized until I was getting 483 00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:43,120 Speaker 2: out how exhausting it was. Just every conversation, every interaction, 484 00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:46,880 Speaker 2: every Monday at the smoke pit, when everybody's talking about 485 00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:50,640 Speaker 2: their weekend, and I have to lie or at least 486 00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:53,680 Speaker 2: change the subject or ask about someone else's I can 487 00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:57,040 Speaker 2: never say where I was, what I was doing, who I. 488 00:28:56,960 --> 00:29:03,800 Speaker 1: Was with, And in fact it became actually dangerous for you. 489 00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:07,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, just like when I was a kid, I don't 490 00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:11,080 Speaker 2: hide it well that I'm a lesbian. I was a 491 00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:14,040 Speaker 2: little tomboy who wanted to play with boys and never 492 00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:17,680 Speaker 2: wanted to wear skirts, and never was interested in doing 493 00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:22,160 Speaker 2: my hair or makeup. And in the Air Force, I 494 00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:25,160 Speaker 2: got a little boulder and cut my hair short. And 495 00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:28,720 Speaker 2: I'm still I'm a butch lesbian and I look like it. 496 00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:32,240 Speaker 2: If I based my wardrobe on my little tony, I 497 00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:35,960 Speaker 2: would still, you know, be accosted in bathrooms because I 498 00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:39,520 Speaker 2: just I'm six feet told, I can't hide that I'm gay. 499 00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:45,560 Speaker 2: So people knew anyway, there were people I told there 500 00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:49,640 Speaker 2: were for the most part. You know, my generation at 501 00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:52,320 Speaker 2: the time, you know, the late nineties were raised on MTV, 502 00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:57,200 Speaker 2: so it was deeply uncool already to be a homophobe 503 00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:00,840 Speaker 2: or to be a bigot, But there were still, you know, 504 00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:07,160 Speaker 2: it just took one wrong person. So as I became 505 00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:10,520 Speaker 2: more comfortable with myself and became more comfortable with the 506 00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:13,720 Speaker 2: other airmen in my building, a few of them knew. 507 00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:17,960 Speaker 2: A few of them asked, and we're fine with it, 508 00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:24,200 Speaker 2: and most people didn't care. But someone did. I started 509 00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:29,080 Speaker 2: getting strange threats left on my car. It started. I 510 00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:31,240 Speaker 2: was stationed in South Carolina, but my unit had gone 511 00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:35,040 Speaker 2: to Egypt for an exercise and my boss gave me 512 00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:39,320 Speaker 2: his rental car when he left, and someone had written 513 00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:41,920 Speaker 2: die Dike on the back of it, and I thought, 514 00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:47,560 Speaker 2: I thought it was someone playing a prank who was 515 00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:51,040 Speaker 2: really bad at pranks, until I got back and there 516 00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:55,320 Speaker 2: were more of them, so it was clearly not a prank. Yeah, 517 00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:58,120 Speaker 2: my car got torched when I was babysitting for that 518 00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:01,160 Speaker 2: same boss. He was sitting his kid. He was gone 519 00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:04,800 Speaker 2: for the weekend, and my car went op smoking them 520 00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:08,760 Speaker 2: all of the night. So it's that all I wanted 521 00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:10,880 Speaker 2: was to love lose South Carolina, and I was about 522 00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:13,400 Speaker 2: to leave. I got orders for Greece, and I was 523 00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:16,320 Speaker 2: I'm excited to go to Greece. And then I think 524 00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:18,320 Speaker 2: it was a couple of weeks before I left, maybe 525 00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:21,880 Speaker 2: a month, my car got torched, and all I could 526 00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:26,440 Speaker 2: think about was, well, shit, what about Greece. They very 527 00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:30,719 Speaker 2: intentionally decided that the easiest way to deal with this 528 00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:35,320 Speaker 2: situation of someone is sending me death threats and torching 529 00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:39,240 Speaker 2: my car. The best resolution for this is to prove 530 00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:42,400 Speaker 2: that I torched my own car because I didn't want 531 00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:45,080 Speaker 2: to go to Greece was the motive they had in mind, 532 00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:48,440 Speaker 2: and made up the death threats even though people had 533 00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:51,480 Speaker 2: seen them, And so they investigated me for about a 534 00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:54,560 Speaker 2: year and then they court martialed me for it and 535 00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:59,000 Speaker 2: I was acquitted. But by then part of the investigation 536 00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:02,000 Speaker 2: was going around to single air on base and asking 537 00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:04,680 Speaker 2: them if they knew Airman Huff was gay and if 538 00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:09,560 Speaker 2: they'd ever seen Airman Huff being her assed. So everybody, 539 00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:12,440 Speaker 2: I'm very stale with gay. I couldn't do my job anymore. 540 00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:14,960 Speaker 2: They had me working in the gym handing out towels 541 00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:21,400 Speaker 2: because my security clearance was either revoked or suspended until 542 00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:24,840 Speaker 2: the outcome of the investigation. But it was just done. 543 00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:26,680 Speaker 2: I knew I couldn't stay in the Air Force. 544 00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:30,960 Speaker 1: So you left the Air Force and you were honorably discharged. 545 00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:34,080 Speaker 2: You did tell Yeah. 546 00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:40,040 Speaker 1: Over the next decade or so, Lauren continues to live 547 00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:44,640 Speaker 1: her life, always longing for connection. She works a number 548 00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:48,880 Speaker 1: of jobs as a bartender and a self described cable guy, 549 00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:52,800 Speaker 1: for example, all the while hiding the history of her upbringing. 550 00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:57,560 Speaker 1: Her shame keeps her quiet. With the exception of her siblings, 551 00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:01,360 Speaker 1: she has nobody to corroborate her childhood, nobody with whom 552 00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:06,080 Speaker 1: to remember or to face the shame. Sometimes She wonders 553 00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:09,080 Speaker 1: that the cult was even real, if anything is real, 554 00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:13,600 Speaker 1: But then she discovers a website with message boards for 555 00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:17,920 Speaker 1: former cult members, particularly cult babies who grew up in 556 00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:21,280 Speaker 1: Children of God. When Lauren is on one of the 557 00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:25,320 Speaker 1: message boards, she encounters a girl she'd known in Osaka, 558 00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:30,800 Speaker 1: a real girl. In turn, this makes Lauren realize something 559 00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:36,480 Speaker 1: she hasn't ever fully realized before. She's real too. Seeing 560 00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:40,120 Speaker 1: and being seen on this message board makes her realize 561 00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:43,880 Speaker 1: that it all happened and that she exists. 562 00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:47,560 Speaker 2: You know, if the narrative is you can't tell anyone 563 00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:52,360 Speaker 2: because they'll never understand, because they'll reject you, then that secret, 564 00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:57,400 Speaker 2: no matter what it is, becomes shame. It's just how 565 00:33:57,600 --> 00:34:03,080 Speaker 2: that works your mind. If this is something horrific that 566 00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:05,480 Speaker 2: I can never tell anyone, then it's something that's wrong 567 00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:07,640 Speaker 2: with me that I could never tell anyone, And it 568 00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:13,239 Speaker 2: becomes something I did when I didn't control where I 569 00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:19,680 Speaker 2: was born or where I was. But finding the others, 570 00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:23,200 Speaker 2: I stayed up so many nights just talking to them. 571 00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:25,719 Speaker 2: The funniest thing about it, I think is that we 572 00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:29,120 Speaker 2: were having fun. I think what I would imagine of, 573 00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:33,520 Speaker 2: you know, us talking about some of the more horrific 574 00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:38,040 Speaker 2: stuff that happened, and you know, fact checking our memories 575 00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:42,440 Speaker 2: of the abuses and the neglect or any of that is. 576 00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:47,640 Speaker 2: We were having fun and making jokes about three sheets 577 00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:49,560 Speaker 2: of toilet paper because that was a rule, you could 578 00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:54,640 Speaker 2: only use three sheets of toilet paper, and intentionally planting 579 00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:58,400 Speaker 2: those shitty little songs in each other's ears, someone like 580 00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:00,880 Speaker 2: type four lines that everybody yell at them with, ow 581 00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:04,919 Speaker 2: dare you? It was what I'd been missing that whole 582 00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:08,080 Speaker 2: time that everyone else gets where they you know, they 583 00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:11,680 Speaker 2: meet someone who was into the same TV show, or 584 00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:15,759 Speaker 2: everybody remembers, you know, slip and slides. We didn't have 585 00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:19,680 Speaker 2: slip and slides. We had those songs and those videos 586 00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:24,919 Speaker 2: and you know, dance night and bunk beds, and yet 587 00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:28,399 Speaker 2: we were having fun. We still do. And so while 588 00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:32,319 Speaker 2: I don't hang out there as much anymore. They moved 589 00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:35,640 Speaker 2: on to Facebook, but every once in a while, I'll 590 00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:40,839 Speaker 2: still check in with people who remember. I don't know 591 00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:43,040 Speaker 2: where I would be with that if I hadn't found 592 00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:46,040 Speaker 2: that of you know, these are people who who I 593 00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:49,080 Speaker 2: can fact check my own memories with because I don't 594 00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:53,640 Speaker 2: know what's real. Sometimes it seems like a movie I watched. 595 00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:57,560 Speaker 2: It's so different, so bizarre, that it doesn't make sense 596 00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:04,719 Speaker 2: in my current reality. 597 00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:08,200 Speaker 1: But Lauren wants to feel real offline too. The message 598 00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:11,000 Speaker 1: board has been life changing, but she's looking for ways 599 00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:13,239 Speaker 1: to bring that sense of reality into her life in 600 00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:17,120 Speaker 1: real time as she's living it. She thinks back on 601 00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:20,279 Speaker 1: a conversation she once had with Mikey about what they 602 00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:23,279 Speaker 1: wanted to be when they grew up. Mikey had said, 603 00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:26,000 Speaker 1: I want to be a painter, and Lauren had said, 604 00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:29,480 Speaker 1: I want to be a writer. To this, mike Equipped, 605 00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:32,440 Speaker 1: who are we kidding? We'll both end up tending bar. 606 00:36:33,719 --> 00:36:36,680 Speaker 1: Of course, Lauren did end up tending bar, but now 607 00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:40,080 Speaker 1: she's ready to pursue something else, something she's always been 608 00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:44,040 Speaker 1: drawn to do. Her brother feels the same, and they 609 00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:47,600 Speaker 1: both do it. He becomes a painter and she becomes 610 00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:47,959 Speaker 1: a writer. 611 00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:53,239 Speaker 2: I think bartending is great training for writers. Really. You 612 00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:55,920 Speaker 2: get to watch conversations all the time, You get to 613 00:36:55,920 --> 00:36:57,040 Speaker 2: watch how people interact. 614 00:36:57,320 --> 00:36:59,200 Speaker 1: I tell my students a lot of the time. You know, 615 00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:00,920 Speaker 1: if you want to be writer, don't get a job 616 00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:02,000 Speaker 1: in publishing. Go ten bar. 617 00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:07,759 Speaker 2: Truly, Yeah, you're you're the person everyone talks to because 618 00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:09,359 Speaker 2: you have to talk to them. If I go into 619 00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:12,360 Speaker 2: a bar, that's who I talked to, was the bartender. 620 00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:17,000 Speaker 2: They've got great stories. But yeah, the idea I could 621 00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:20,360 Speaker 2: be a writer that came from I would read everything, 622 00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:22,719 Speaker 2: and it never occurred to me that what I was 623 00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:25,319 Speaker 2: writing could be published. That was something other people did. 624 00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:27,800 Speaker 2: I don't know why I didn't put those two things together. 625 00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:30,360 Speaker 2: I just didn't. I don't know if it's because I 626 00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:32,680 Speaker 2: didn't think much about what it was going to be 627 00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:34,120 Speaker 2: when I grew up. I don't know if it's because 628 00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:37,759 Speaker 2: I didn't truly understand that I would grow up, although 629 00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:41,440 Speaker 2: I don't know who does. But it was in one 630 00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:44,080 Speaker 2: of those cul baby groups a trend of mine. Taylor 631 00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:48,319 Speaker 2: Stevens sent me a book that she had written, and 632 00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:50,800 Speaker 2: she said she was going to try to get it published, 633 00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:54,840 Speaker 2: and I thought that sounded ridiculous, but I was happy 634 00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:57,120 Speaker 2: to read it for her, and I did, and I 635 00:37:57,560 --> 00:37:59,719 Speaker 2: gave her a couple crappy notes. I didn't know what 636 00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:03,799 Speaker 2: I was doing. And then her book was in bookstores. 637 00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:07,839 Speaker 2: I was like, great, we can do this how And 638 00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:12,480 Speaker 2: I guess the importance of seeing a role model do it. 639 00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:15,840 Speaker 2: But I also didn't know. I tried to write thrillers 640 00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:19,320 Speaker 2: for a while. I'm terrible at them. I just couldn't 641 00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:23,080 Speaker 2: write one. There all sounded exactly like whoever I read last. 642 00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:27,319 Speaker 2: I just couldn't sound like me at all. But there 643 00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:30,440 Speaker 2: were all these stories that I kept writing, and I 644 00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:35,440 Speaker 2: kept just posting them in call baby forums for other members, 645 00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:42,560 Speaker 2: but I was too terrified to do it publicly. Until 646 00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:45,759 Speaker 2: I think I didn't really have a choice if I 647 00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:48,239 Speaker 2: was either going to write this or I was going 648 00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:49,840 Speaker 2: to give up on the idea of being a writer. 649 00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:57,320 Speaker 1: For a while, Lauren struggled with how to tell her story. First, 650 00:38:57,320 --> 00:38:59,479 Speaker 1: she wrote a manuscript that was more of a tell 651 00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:02,640 Speaker 1: all about children of God, because that's what she thought 652 00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:06,520 Speaker 1: people wanted to hear. That book didn't sell, but then 653 00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:11,880 Speaker 1: she wrote a quirky, powerful essay about being the cable guy, 654 00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:15,040 Speaker 1: and that essay went viral, giving her another chance to 655 00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:16,680 Speaker 1: tell her story her way. 656 00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:22,040 Speaker 2: I think writing for me people will ask you if 657 00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:23,640 Speaker 2: it's therapy, and I don't think it is. I think 658 00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:27,200 Speaker 2: it's the opposite of it. But rewriting and writing over 659 00:39:27,239 --> 00:39:28,920 Speaker 2: and over, I think you cut down to what's actually 660 00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:32,640 Speaker 2: important and what story you want to tell, and I 661 00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:34,640 Speaker 2: was lucky that I got to do the story that 662 00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:37,919 Speaker 2: I wanted to tell, which is that I don't think 663 00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:41,400 Speaker 2: we're all that different. I don't think we all have 664 00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:45,080 Speaker 2: these secrets that we think are horrific and can never 665 00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:49,560 Speaker 2: be shared. And the second do you share them, someone goes, oh, 666 00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:53,160 Speaker 2: me too, And it happens every time. I think it's 667 00:39:53,160 --> 00:39:56,279 Speaker 2: the clearest indication for me that I did okay with 668 00:39:56,320 --> 00:39:59,640 Speaker 2: the book is that my siblings were understandably pretty nervous 669 00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:03,319 Speaker 2: about me writing it. And when I hit the best 670 00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:05,480 Speaker 2: seller list, my brother's wife went around telling all the 671 00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:10,280 Speaker 2: neighbors because she's Italian from Norse Providence, and the neighbors 672 00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:11,920 Speaker 2: have to know is that her sister in law is 673 00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:16,080 Speaker 2: the best seller New York Time is the bestseller. My 674 00:40:16,280 --> 00:40:18,520 Speaker 2: brother was like, oh man, they're not going to let 675 00:40:18,560 --> 00:40:20,400 Speaker 2: her kid come over and play. They're not gonna let 676 00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:23,200 Speaker 2: kids go over to her house. And he was terrified 677 00:40:23,239 --> 00:40:27,120 Speaker 2: about it. And she started rattling off every neighbor's dirt 678 00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:31,040 Speaker 2: through the old neighborhood, yelling and I won't do the 679 00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:33,759 Speaker 2: accident and the yelling, but shouting about that guy down 680 00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:36,480 Speaker 2: there is alcoholic, that guy down there has been to prison. 681 00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:40,680 Speaker 2: She's like, so you're a grow up in it. Nobody cares, James, 682 00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:42,880 Speaker 2: because nobody cares. 683 00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:51,920 Speaker 1: Here's Lauren reading one last passage from leaving. Isn't the 684 00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:52,640 Speaker 1: hardest thing? 685 00:40:57,239 --> 00:40:59,800 Speaker 2: For years, I kept the secret even if I wanted 686 00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:02,319 Speaker 2: to someone. There's no handbook to announce that sort of thing. 687 00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:05,480 Speaker 2: I thought sometimes, back when I thought of it at all, 688 00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:07,960 Speaker 2: that I should make a poster like the ones we 689 00:41:08,040 --> 00:41:10,360 Speaker 2: used to hand out, maybe a picture of me on 690 00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:13,160 Speaker 2: the front, like a lost kid poster. My name is 691 00:41:13,239 --> 00:41:16,000 Speaker 2: Lauren and I was in the family. It's a cult. Nope, 692 00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:18,560 Speaker 2: not that one. No kool aid, just an old guy. 693 00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:21,439 Speaker 2: As i'd attack to God. But what can I really 694 00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:24,319 Speaker 2: tell you to explain my life. I know it's fascinating 695 00:41:24,360 --> 00:41:27,719 Speaker 2: because it's so different, but it's so fucking different, and 696 00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:29,759 Speaker 2: no matter what I say, it'll still be foreign to you. 697 00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:32,839 Speaker 2: I can't tell you what it feels like to live 698 00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:34,960 Speaker 2: in a constant state of alert unless you've lived it. 699 00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:38,640 Speaker 2: We watch horror movies because they're fun. There's tension, the 700 00:41:38,719 --> 00:41:42,880 Speaker 2: dark room, the building music, the ominous threat. Then release 701 00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:45,839 Speaker 2: A cat jumps out of the cupboard. There's no one 702 00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:48,880 Speaker 2: behind the shower, curtain, but in a cult, just like 703 00:41:48,920 --> 00:41:53,560 Speaker 2: any abusive relationship, there's no release. It's constant threat. This 704 00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:56,840 Speaker 2: sort of prolonged terror leaves a mark. But the problem 705 00:41:56,840 --> 00:41:59,000 Speaker 2: with any sort of fucked up childhood, just like any 706 00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:02,799 Speaker 2: abusive relationship, show, you can't talk about it because it's 707 00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:03,320 Speaker 2: a secret. 708 00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:25,840 Speaker 1: Family Secrets is a production of iHeartRadio. Molly Zacur is 709 00:42:25,880 --> 00:42:29,040 Speaker 1: the story editor and Dylan Fagan is the executive producer. 710 00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:32,239 Speaker 1: If you have a family secret you'd like to share, 711 00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:35,120 Speaker 1: please leave us a voicemail and your story could appear 712 00:42:35,160 --> 00:42:38,560 Speaker 1: on an upcoming episode. Our number is one eight eight 713 00:42:38,560 --> 00:42:42,759 Speaker 1: eight secret zero. That's the number zero. You can also 714 00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:47,719 Speaker 1: find me on Instagram at Danny Rider. And if you'd 715 00:42:47,719 --> 00:42:50,200 Speaker 1: like to know more about the story that inspired this podcast, 716 00:42:50,600 --> 00:43:20,879 Speaker 1: check out my memoir Inheritance. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, 717 00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:24,520 Speaker 1: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen 718 00:43:24,560 --> 00:43:25,520 Speaker 1: to your favorite shows.