Speaker 1: I mean some people would say it was Beyonce's mus
Speaker 1: while she was writing Lemonade. I mean I was Guttenberg's
Speaker 1: mus when he invented the printing pass. It's so unusual
Speaker 1: that you've experienced something in pop culture that I haven't,
Speaker 1: and something like consistently you have told me is that
Speaker 1: I needed to watch Obsessed, starring Beyonce nals Carter. I
Speaker 1: have said it, and which Beyonce kills a woman who
Speaker 1: is trying to steal her husband um with a chandelier
Speaker 1: from a Fandilier chandelier. And so Fran I finally watched
Speaker 1: Obsessed last night. My god, Yes, and we're going to
Speaker 1: talk about Obsessed and also maybe like some other psycho
Speaker 1: sexual thrillers like yeah, like a fatal Attraction, basic instinct
Speaker 1: based on the girl, the invention of the psycho herod
Speaker 1: and woman exactly exactly, because this is like a virgin
Speaker 1: where we give yesterday's pop culture today's takes. I'm ros
Speaker 1: Damo and I'm Fran Toronto, and by the end of
Speaker 1: this episode I will have killed Fran with a chandelier. Well,
Speaker 1: I mean that's kind of most episodes, to be honest,
Speaker 1: because I'm what the Phantom of the Opera, Franny, What
Speaker 1: did you do this weekend? So I saw our boys
Speaker 1: in Muna perform Silk Chiffon to the Staples Stadium which
Speaker 1: is now known as the Crypto dot Com Stadium, but
Speaker 1: like it was a stadium, which is the most important
Speaker 1: part of the Crypto dot Com Stadium. That's amazing, Yeah
Speaker 1: it is. I was so happy to see that song
Speaker 1: performed such a huge audience. Like I'm so proud of
Speaker 1: Muna and everything they've done so far. And that's as
Speaker 1: you know, we just look love it so hard, sick
Speaker 1: cheff on and you were in the music video speaking
Speaker 1: so truly a full circle moment. And let me tell you,
Speaker 1: speaking of uncle hat you have you seen Casey musgraveson
Speaker 1: concert before? Wouldn't care to to be honest, Okay, so
Speaker 1: I may change your opinion on that. You won't. Okay,
Speaker 1: love that love love love. How malleable you are. This
Speaker 1: is not is not a yes and to day this
Speaker 1: is a note, but day and I accept that. I
Speaker 1: accept you where you are. Um, Casey is she's a
Speaker 1: very chill performer. She's a chill girl, she's a stoner.
Speaker 1: She doesn't I was boring. No, no, no, that's not
Speaker 1: what I'm trying to say. I'm saying that you wouldn't
Speaker 1: expect her to pull out all the stops for a
Speaker 1: stadium tour, like you think she might just do it straight. However,
Speaker 1: she did pull out seven all stops um and I
Speaker 1: will also say Casey's voice is perfection Crystalline performed live,
Speaker 1: she sounds exactly like the recording she is like. I
Speaker 1: think her voice is very simple. I don't mean simple
Speaker 1: as a dig I mean that she is very much
Speaker 1: like a country star and that she's not like wailing
Speaker 1: on her songs. It's like a very heart felt, like
Speaker 1: clear tone. It's very pure, and so I would imagine
Speaker 1: that that that that translates really well to live performance. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it did, because she's not pulling in Adena Manzell and
Speaker 1: doing something in the booth that she can't do on stage. Exactly. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's exactly a t But she was amazing, and so
Speaker 1: I had just have to describe a few moments for you.
Speaker 1: First of all, hit me. Halfway through she goes, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: like we're gonna do casey Oki and I have a
Speaker 1: list of four songs, and one of you can pick
Speaker 1: the song that we're going to do a karaoke two together,
Speaker 1: which I thought was so cute. And she pulls out
Speaker 1: this scroll and it's like nine to five by Dolly Parton,
Speaker 1: killing Me Softly, No Scrubs and Dreams by Fleetwood Mac,
Speaker 1: which is like an amazing group of songs. Which one
Speaker 1: would you have picked? By the way, Uh, if we're
Speaker 1: talking like a traditional karaoke scenario, I'm probably going with
Speaker 1: no Scrubs, Okay, Okay, I would have picked no Scrubs
Speaker 1: or ninety five. I think everyone around me was like,
Speaker 1: if you and I were doing karaoke together as a pair,
Speaker 1: we would do nine to five. Okay, that is t
Speaker 1: for sure. She finds a girl in the front who
Speaker 1: it's like her birthday person. You can't you can't assume
Speaker 1: this person's gender. I actually can. I this was definitely
Speaker 1: this woman because it was her birthday, and it was
Speaker 1: like it felt like a you know, a bachelorette party
Speaker 1: kind of vibe. And she's like, this girl is maybe
Speaker 1: like bachelor X. You don't right, right, right, right, of course,
Speaker 1: of course, and so this girl's maybe like sixteen seventeen okay,
Speaker 1: And Casey really says to her like, don't sunk this up.
Speaker 1: Like this is like you're picking the song that we
Speaker 1: all want to hear. It's a lot of pressure. It
Speaker 1: is actually the girl picks killing me softly. Casey, who
Speaker 1: is definitely stoned, has already talked about being on xan
Speaker 1: X and did a shot of tequila on stage, is
Speaker 1: like totally over the whole experience in a in a
Speaker 1: good way, like a very like chill girl way. And
Speaker 1: she looks at the girl whose birthday it is, and
Speaker 1: she goes, I'm sorry, you picked wrong, and we're gonna
Speaker 1: do nine. But well, it's kind of case it's fault
Speaker 1: for putting that on the list. Yeah, it is actually
Speaker 1: her fault. And and and she knew the song that
Speaker 1: she wanted to do. And it's iconic though to crush
Speaker 1: this girl's birthday. You know, I wonder if that girl
Speaker 1: would killed herself. She did it on the right person. No,
Speaker 1: don't kill yourself, You're so sexy. She threw this, She
Speaker 1: threw the scroll to her, so like, I think that
Speaker 1: was like her consolation prize. But Rose, there's a moment
Speaker 1: at the end of this concert where I thought of you.
Speaker 1: I wish I had gotten it on video. I I
Speaker 1: felt your energy so clearly at that moment. Okay, what
Speaker 1: read is this gonna be? No, it's not. It's a compliment.
Speaker 1: Casey ended with Gracia Slavita, which is like this kind
Speaker 1: of like activist folk song from I want to say, well,
Speaker 1: this song is kind of a bummer, and it's also
Speaker 1: not a song that I really would have wanted her
Speaker 1: to do at our concert, And I was like, why
Speaker 1: is she doing this song? And towards the end of
Speaker 1: the song, the curtains open and there's this big staircase
Speaker 1: that she kind of ascends, and there's like big lights
Speaker 1: behind her. It's this very anthemic, kind of fiery, dramatic moment,
Speaker 1: and she goes to the top of the staircase and
Speaker 1: at the end of this song, there's this really kind
Speaker 1: of spooky voice distortion that happens. I kind of wish
Speaker 1: she did it more on that album, to be honest,
Speaker 1: but it's a very big note to end on, and
Speaker 1: Casey at the top of the staircase, looks out to
Speaker 1: the audience belt the last note of this song and
Speaker 1: falls back perfectly and then disappears like in Black Fucking Swan.
Speaker 1: It was. It was literally exactly black Swan. It was.
Speaker 1: It was such a gag. It was high drag. I
Speaker 1: was living. I I literally could not have had more
Speaker 1: fun at this concert. And to be totally honest, I
Speaker 1: kind of had lower expectations because this album was not
Speaker 1: my favorite I did. What did you think of the
Speaker 1: album star Crossed? Um? It was fine? You know, I
Speaker 1: enjoyed it. It like it grew on me with time,
Speaker 1: but it's not something I'm ever like, Oh, I gotta
Speaker 1: listen to star Crossed. Yeah, I feel the same way.
Speaker 1: I really like hookup scene and there as a Light.
Speaker 1: I think those are stand up, but like, overall, I
Speaker 1: felt like the whole album need had like a punch
Speaker 1: up on the production, and I thought that I thought them.
Speaker 1: The film was also kind of not whack, but just
Speaker 1: like not enough. What the Virgins don't know is we
Speaker 1: watched the first video from that film together and we're like, oh,
Speaker 1: that was good, And then we watched Chloe Bailey's video
Speaker 1: for Mercy and we were like, but I guess what
Speaker 1: I'm trying to get at is the album was extremely
Speaker 1: powerful to hear in person because Casey did still put
Speaker 1: so much emotion into it, and also I felt like
Speaker 1: her lyrics were really championed and her as a songwriter
Speaker 1: is always going to be strong even if the production
Speaker 1: isn't always there. Um. But yeah, anyways, I had a ball.
Speaker 1: I wish you were there. You know, not much to
Speaker 1: talk about this week. I mean, like drag Race was
Speaker 1: kind of fine, the salt Like, I thought the drag
Speaker 1: Race challenge was funny, but then the twist of the
Speaker 1: soap opera being about farting. I don't like a fart joke.
Speaker 1: I no, I don't like a fart joke. Wow, so
Speaker 1: you hate fun I don't hate fun I like smarter. No,
Speaker 1: I think a fart joke is funny the first couple
Speaker 1: of times, but when it goes on for that long,
Speaker 1: I guess by the end it did swing background being
Speaker 1: funny again. I do forget sometimes that Rue has that
Speaker 1: sense of humor though. Yeah, Ru, Rue like stuff that's
Speaker 1: very simple, like very bare bones, like fart slapstick humor.
Speaker 1: And I don't know, I felt like this is a
Speaker 1: moment where like Rue and whoever is writing this ship
Speaker 1: like really thrived, Like I love the challenge. You think
Speaker 1: Rue wrote the script for the Delta. Yeah? Yeah, Ru
Speaker 1: Rue in his office with with his quill and his ink. Well, um, yeah,
Speaker 1: I I'm sure you were extremely mad that no one
Speaker 1: was eliminated. I think that it's a little bit of ause,
Speaker 1: but I'm hoping that means next week there will be
Speaker 1: a quadruple elimination. Yeah right, Um, I feel like it
Speaker 1: maybe when it comes down to the math, it was
Speaker 1: always supposed to happen this way, Like there was always
Speaker 1: supposed to be an episode where no one was eliminated
Speaker 1: because there's so many episodes now for these seasons. Um,
Speaker 1: I feel like it was deserved. I thought everyone killed
Speaker 1: that runway shockingly. I thought that everyone did had a
Speaker 1: passing grade on this sketch itself. Um, But like when
Speaker 1: it comes down to like I don't know, like overall performance,
Speaker 1: Like I mean Camden's runway where she fell and revealed
Speaker 1: this year to completely unexpected, But like why was she
Speaker 1: kicking so often? Was that a Freddie Mercury thing? Did
Speaker 1: he kick a lot? I mean he's he was kind
Speaker 1: of legging? Where is that maybe like her only move? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I will say the Real House as of Salt Lake
Speaker 1: finale was totally underwheling that season is still on. Well, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it's it felt like this season has been like
Speaker 1: a thousand years um. But the most important takeaway from
Speaker 1: the experience of watching The Real House Lives finale Rose
Speaker 1: is that the Chichi Trainers we are eaten because in
Speaker 1: a commercial for The Real House as Assault, like the finale,
Speaker 1: we have now learned that Megan Trainer is hosting a
Speaker 1: Peacock original of a kid's version of Top Chef called
Speaker 1: Top Chef Family Style. I thought that we're going to
Speaker 1: say something like Megan Trainer was hosting the reunion all
Speaker 1: of Nikki hosting Potomac, or like Megan Trainer was joining
Speaker 1: The House Lives a Salt Lake City, which, like I
Speaker 1: actually would believe that would totally watch. I would believe that,
Speaker 1: like she has a house there and that that's the
Speaker 1: point her career is at. Can you imagine how underwhelming
Speaker 1: it would be to watch her host a reunion? Literally
Speaker 1: any I don't know that I've ever actually heard her speak,
Speaker 1: so I she probably sounds like Julia Fox. So in
Speaker 1: the finale, in the like the previous they showed that
Speaker 1: Jenny is still the reunion, which I didn't realize. I
Speaker 1: thought that she was the one who got fired, right,
Speaker 1: she was the one that got fired and then Mary
Speaker 1: also left, and I mean Jen is literally going to
Speaker 1: be in jail by the time that the next season
Speaker 1: is filmed, which means we'rely we're losing three housewives from
Speaker 1: this franchise. I think maybe we should just lose the franchise. Um,
Speaker 1: you wouldn't say that if you actually watched it. It is.
Speaker 1: It is definitely a top tier franchise, if not my
Speaker 1: favorite right now, Like, I think I even enjoyed it
Speaker 1: more than I enjoyed this last season of Beverly Hills.
Speaker 1: That's sacrilege. Are you happy to be in Belies? It
Speaker 1: is so rare that there's something in pop culture that
Speaker 1: you have experience that I never have. Yeah, Actually, this
Speaker 1: is a nice little turning of the tables. Um. I
Speaker 1: for years people have been telling me that I needed
Speaker 1: to watch Obsessed, and I don't know why I never did.
Speaker 1: And I'm honestly shocked that I didn't see it when
Speaker 1: it came out because two thousand nine, like, what, you know,
Speaker 1: what was I doing? Yeah? What were you doing? I
Speaker 1: was graduating. I was doing a lot of drugs action,
Speaker 1: so that that actually makes a lot of sense. It was,
Speaker 1: if I remember correctly, like a box office hit. It is,
Speaker 1: I think, Um, it's the only film. It's only feature
Speaker 1: film that Parkwood Productions, which is Beyonce's production company UM produced,
Speaker 1: other than Cadillac Records and Black Is Gang, which isn't Beyonce.
Speaker 1: Beyonce Knowles is listed as an executive producer. Well, I
Speaker 1: noticed when I watched the movie last night. Yes, today
Speaker 1: we were talking about Obsessed to the two thousand nine
Speaker 1: films starring Beyonce Elba, Ali Larder, and we'll get into,
Speaker 1: you know, the thick of it, maybe a slightly broader
Speaker 1: conversation about this trope of the murderous scorned woman, a
Speaker 1: trope that Rose dam You did in fact invent and
Speaker 1: in herself. Well, if like me, you've never seen the
Speaker 1: film film Obsessed, um, here's a quick recap. Beyonce is
Speaker 1: married to Idris Elba. Her name uh in a in
Speaker 1: a in a turn that made me feel absolutely psychotic.
Speaker 1: Her character's name is Sharon, which is just not realistic
Speaker 1: at all. For someone who looks like Beyonce to be
Speaker 1: named Sharon. It would just it simply would would never happen.
Speaker 1: There there's so many things I kept waiting for a
Speaker 1: twist that like she had a secret identity. Yeah, if if,
Speaker 1: if there was a supernatural twist, I could suspend my belief.
Speaker 1: But I draw the line at someone who looks like
Speaker 1: Beyonce named Sharon. So Beyonce is married to Idris Elba.
Speaker 1: She actually used to be his assistant at his law firm,
Speaker 1: and they have since fallen in love, gotten married, had
Speaker 1: a child a child who will become important to the
Speaker 1: plot later. Um and Idris um is you know, working
Speaker 1: in the city and he there's a new temp but
Speaker 1: his office, played by Ali Larder of Heroes and legally
Speaker 1: blonde fame and for at the time, Ali was I'd
Speaker 1: never heard of her before, but she was kind of
Speaker 1: everywhere around she was. She was definitely moving and shaken
Speaker 1: around this time because because specifically Heroes Um because Heroes
Speaker 1: was like such a big cultural moment. So Ali Larder
Speaker 1: starts temping at Idris's law firm and becomes obsessed with
Speaker 1: him and starts like manufacturing run ins between the two
Speaker 1: of them, and increasingly like you see Adris be like, oh,
Speaker 1: this is kind of weird. Should I say something to
Speaker 1: my wife? And then he doesn't because he thinks saying
Speaker 1: something will just like make it into something it's not
Speaker 1: until eventually it comes out ahead at the company Christmas party,
Speaker 1: where Ali Larder like throws it back at him the
Speaker 1: kind in the restroom if you can't see me, Like
Speaker 1: it's kind of a movement. It's like gazelle like kind
Speaker 1: of like white girl dance. That's happening. And so now
Speaker 1: Adris knows that Ali Larder wants him, but he like
Speaker 1: again weirdly like doesn't I This was one thing that
Speaker 1: was so confusing to me was that like he had
Speaker 1: many chances to say, like go to HR or be
Speaker 1: like hey, this woman is like harassing me, like she's
Speaker 1: attempt get rid of her. And so Ali Larder, it
Speaker 1: becomes clear like his manufactured this relationship between the two
Speaker 1: of them and does crazy things like she shows up
Speaker 1: in his car with only underwear on, she leaves the
Speaker 1: company because to be with him, because like they can't
Speaker 1: have a relationship. And then she shows up his business
Speaker 1: trip drugs him and I forgot that, drugs him and
Speaker 1: sexually assaults him. Um, I forgot about that. And then
Speaker 1: when he like really like tells her like you're crazy.
Speaker 1: This isn't happening. She o d s in his bed
Speaker 1: and is taken to the hospital, where like a detective
Speaker 1: starts an investigation. Beyond well, Sharon finds out about it, Um,
Speaker 1: and they all like kind of quickly go from like
Speaker 1: what like what did he do to this girl, like
Speaker 1: you know, taking it as the way it looks, to like, oh,
Speaker 1: I guess she is actually crazy. Because Ali Larder, like
Speaker 1: after getting out of the hospital and like going with
Speaker 1: her sister, Um comes to their house one night after
Speaker 1: Beyonce has forgiven Adris Elba, and they think that she
Speaker 1: has stolen Beyonce's child because the child is missing, and
Speaker 1: then it turns out she like put him in a car.
Speaker 1: So then it all comes to a head when Ali
Speaker 1: Larder shows up at the house and Beyonce has forgotten
Speaker 1: to put in the security code, which come on girl.
Speaker 1: Actually this morning, coming into the studio, the security alarm
Speaker 1: went off, and I found myself thinking like if only
Speaker 1: this had happened in Beyonce's home. Of course, Um, so
Speaker 1: Beyonce and Ali Larder have a fight to death, which
Speaker 1: is like the set piece of the film and which
Speaker 1: I discovered last night upon doing some research. It took
Speaker 1: them a week to film it, no way, and then
Speaker 1: Beyonce gets Ali Larder. In the end, Sharon wins and
Speaker 1: Ali Larder dies, and then Beyonce and DRI's elbow like
Speaker 1: hug and make up at the end where Okay, there's
Speaker 1: never really so that is that is the plot of
Speaker 1: the movie. Essentially, my let me let me say this.
Speaker 1: I was obsessed. I think it's the best movie ever made. Okay, amazing.
Speaker 1: I was going to ask because obviously you and I
Speaker 1: had the exact same first impression, which was why is
Speaker 1: her name Sharon? But why is her name? Your second
Speaker 1: impression was like what was the second was? This is incredible?
Speaker 1: I loved it. I had so much fun watching it.
Speaker 1: But I was also very confused because I wasn't confused
Speaker 1: by anything that happened. I was confused by like the
Speaker 1: way people reacted to things. And I understand that these
Speaker 1: things needed to happen for the plot of this film,
Speaker 1: but like, if you take that away, it makes no
Speaker 1: sense that Drew's elbow wasn't like, um, this woman is
Speaker 1: like harassing me, she needs to go um, and you
Speaker 1: do like he even if he didn't cheat with this woman,
Speaker 1: he had so many options to like do the right thing,
Speaker 1: tell the truth, be like this is crazy, Um, you
Speaker 1: need to stop this, tell his wife what was going on?
Speaker 1: And so and by the end of the movie, even
Speaker 1: though they have survived and this woman hasn't gotten what
Speaker 1: she wanted, which like she didn't get Adris Elba or
Speaker 1: you know, the baby, Sharon has come out on top.
Speaker 1: Like how does Beyonce go back to him at the
Speaker 1: end because he has created a situation in which she
Speaker 1: had to kill a woman in her own home and
Speaker 1: be scarred by that forever. So like, how do you, like,
Speaker 1: how do you go back to like getting fro you
Speaker 1: with that person? I like what I don't think that
Speaker 1: if there was an obsessed to I think it would
Speaker 1: be about their divorce. Okay, so you're you're I'm picking
Speaker 1: up on some of the things you're reacting to, And
Speaker 1: I think that it should be said that this movie
Speaker 1: did pretty good in the box office, but it was
Speaker 1: a critical flop obviously, and a lot of things yeah
Speaker 1: I know, yeah exactly, and a lot of the things
Speaker 1: that people were talking about. We're just what you're naming,
Speaker 1: is that the kind of emotional and relational steaks of
Speaker 1: these three characters are a bit off, and because it is,
Speaker 1: you know, so such a kind of carbon copy of
Speaker 1: movies we've seen before, they were like, well, this is
Speaker 1: like a lower stakes, moralistic kind of version of well
Speaker 1: those films. Yeah. I think like some of the criticism
Speaker 1: and the little bit of research I did is that
Speaker 1: at the time, people were like, this is bad because
Speaker 1: we don't understand why these people are doing the things
Speaker 1: that they're doing. Like they never explain why Ali Lard
Speaker 1: are so obsessed with but other than like he's hot
Speaker 1: because they never have sex, they even yeah, if this
Speaker 1: was no, they don't well she I mean she assaults him, right,
Speaker 1: I mean, if this was like a Hitchcock film, which
Speaker 1: like there is some kind of like Hitchcock e and
Speaker 1: thing going on here, you know, we would find out
Speaker 1: Ali Larter's tragic backstory where she had been like assaulted
Speaker 1: as a child or something. That's a very trophy thing
Speaker 1: with these movies, like you find out why the crazy
Speaker 1: woman is crazy, um, and in this there's no explanation
Speaker 1: of it. And something else to me that stuck out
Speaker 1: was that Idris is never really tempted like his like
Speaker 1: I mean, besides like he he looks at her legs,
Speaker 1: you know, when they first meet, he notices that she's hot,
Speaker 1: Like he thinks she's hot enough to to lie to
Speaker 1: his wife about it, exactly, asks him like if she
Speaker 1: is your new assistant attractive? And he's like, no, is
Speaker 1: your ugly? Yeah? Yeah exactly, yeah yeah, And so I
Speaker 1: think that that it's like it kind of renders Idris
Speaker 1: to be renders all three of them to be like
Speaker 1: very uncomplicated characters. Like I think the film, and I think, honestly,
Speaker 1: because it was done by Parkwood Productions and because Beyonce
Speaker 1: was maybe over this, it would make sense to me
Speaker 1: that these characters would kind of champion fidelity instead of
Speaker 1: like trying to nuance our challenge. Well, because Idris even
Speaker 1: says once he and Beyonce have reconciled and like they
Speaker 1: go to dinner on his birthday, he asks her if
Speaker 1: she wants a divorce and she says, we don't get
Speaker 1: divorces in my family exact, and that, oh my god,
Speaker 1: that is such a like a kind of which it's
Speaker 1: a microcosm of, to be honest, Beyonce culture, like Beyonce
Speaker 1: is like we all saw Lemonade. We all well there
Speaker 1: is a direct line from obsessed to lemonate. We've seen
Speaker 1: the live performance of resentment in the wedding dress. Okay,
Speaker 1: we know that fidelity is something that Beyonce champions in
Speaker 1: kind of almost old school way. Yeah, I mean, well
Speaker 1: it seems kind of faith based. Yeah, and obviously it
Speaker 1: has to do with like blackness, that has to do
Speaker 1: with like ways you grow up religious. Um, but like
Speaker 1: it has I think to me, it makes total sense
Speaker 1: that Idris would never not once cheat, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean. But it also makes it kind of boring,
Speaker 1: makes him boring, It makes movie a little boring. Well,
Speaker 1: there's also this like missed opportunity and like I'm not
Speaker 1: saying that race should have played a bigger part in
Speaker 1: this film, but like when Ali Larder is like using
Speaker 1: the fact that she could get him in trouble by
Speaker 1: the way that things look, you know, to manipulate him,
Speaker 1: Like it goes kind of unsaid this dynamic between them
Speaker 1: that he is a black man and she is a
Speaker 1: white woman, and it's like it's like they're thrumming under
Speaker 1: the surface and you're waiting for the movie to dig
Speaker 1: into it a little and it just never does. And
Speaker 1: it feels kind of like, I mean, yes, on the
Speaker 1: one hand, like it's cool that we're that in two
Speaker 1: thousand nine we had a movie like this where like
Speaker 1: their race wasn't a huge part of it, but it
Speaker 1: also feels kind of weird and like defanged that it's
Speaker 1: like never even addressed. Yeah, and obviously this is a
Speaker 1: conversation for a podcast that is in ours, but like
Speaker 1: this was before Beyonce was like talking about her race,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. But I think that what
Speaker 1: you're touching on is like the fact that like a
Speaker 1: lot of people were coming taking away from this being
Speaker 1: like there were like missed opportunities in how this relationship,
Speaker 1: especially between Ali and Idris, was like racialized. But I
Speaker 1: felt like, um, there's a lot, as you're saying, thrumming
Speaker 1: under the surface. It really was kind of there because
Speaker 1: there's a very kind of like scary victimy white girl
Speaker 1: moment where she kind of like victimizes herself to like
Speaker 1: protect all the lying and assaulting that she's been doing.
Speaker 1: And then I think there's even a moment where like
Speaker 1: Beyonce is like get your skinny us over here something
Speaker 1: like that. Like there's there's components of like race and
Speaker 1: like this like really weird power dynamic between the three
Speaker 1: of them that creeps through. But yeah, I agree, they're
Speaker 1: they're completely unexplored. Yeah it doesn't. It like does not
Speaker 1: lean far enough into being a psycho sexual thriller in
Speaker 1: the vein of something like a fatal attraction or a
Speaker 1: basic instinct. Also, Beyonce is just not in the movie enough,
Speaker 1: Like no, she's she's She's essentially a supporting character. And
Speaker 1: I guess that makes sense because I'm sure she did
Speaker 1: like two weeks on this tops and that's probably why
Speaker 1: she was attracted to it. But I could have used
Speaker 1: more Sharon, even though Sharon is a crazy name for
Speaker 1: Beyonce to have in this um. Even though we're leading
Speaker 1: with kind of the negative things about it, obviously, the
Speaker 1: thing that no one can forget is like this kind
Speaker 1: of final deathmatch between Sharon and Ali. Where's Atris and
Speaker 1: all of it. Again, He's driving, he's at work because
Speaker 1: they're they're about to go on a trip, and Beyonce
Speaker 1: is leaving the day before him, and she leaves the house,
Speaker 1: forgets to set the alarm and goes back to set it,
Speaker 1: and Ali Larter is there and Beyonce has left her
Speaker 1: a message on her phone previously saying like you know
Speaker 1: who this is? Yeah, you know I'm gonna beat your
Speaker 1: assot And then when she shows up the house, she
Speaker 1: was like, I see you didn't get my message. Yes,
Speaker 1: that Beyonce leaving that phone message is the best. Mean.
Speaker 1: Beyonce has some amazing lines, which when she kicks Atris
Speaker 1: out and he's like, where am I supposed to go?
Speaker 1: And she says to hell? But until that, I suggest
Speaker 1: the fourth season like incredible, incredible, or when she says
Speaker 1: get out of my house, she screams at get out
Speaker 1: of my house. She's so good. Yeah, and she her
Speaker 1: Beyonce is someone who understands line delivery. She has comedic timing.
Speaker 1: I think it's like, I mean, if you don't know,
Speaker 1: like Beyonce was nominated for several Razzies, I think for
Speaker 1: this film, Like, um, the film was like widely made
Speaker 1: fun of. I wonder how many Oscar nominees are also
Speaker 1: Razzi nominees. Oh, I do know that they did win
Speaker 1: an MTV Intersectionality Yeah the intersection So in intersectionality means
Speaker 1: you have an MTVM Music Award, but you lost a
Speaker 1: Razzie and failed to get the nom for an oscar Um.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I'm said that. Like I mean, first of all,
Speaker 1: the Razzies are like kind of an abhorrent thing, sometimes
Speaker 1: even so widely misogynistic. And also we have to say
Speaker 1: like this, like when people say this is a critical flop,
Speaker 1: like a lot of this is around like Rotten Tomatoes culture,
Speaker 1: and like it's less true now, but at the time
Speaker 1: Rotten Tomatoes is like percent like white guys, you know what.
Speaker 1: And also like this, that's not how this movie is remembered.
Speaker 1: It's a cult classic. Also, something that people forget about this,
Speaker 1: I think because I haven't really seen anyone talk about it,
Speaker 1: is that it's a Christmas movie. No, it's like it
Speaker 1: was a Christmas movie because kind of a Christmas party. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's like the inciting incident between Idris and Ali Larder.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I forgot about that way, So why
Speaker 1: are we doing it? It kind of like the first
Speaker 1: third of the movie takes place during Christmas? No way. Wow, honestly,
Speaker 1: um missed opportunity for a Destiny's Child is a Christmas
Speaker 1: needle drop. Well, well, you know, the music in the
Speaker 1: movie does slap there. It's a very good soundtrack. There's
Speaker 1: a really good Sam Sparrow song that plays American Boy
Speaker 1: by a Spell which love Also um so, Idris has
Speaker 1: a gay assistant and it's like telegraphed very early on
Speaker 1: that he's gay, and Beyonce has like laid down a
Speaker 1: decree that he's not allowed to have female assistance because
Speaker 1: the last time he did it was her and they
Speaker 1: wound up married. Okay, if I ever had a husband,
Speaker 1: I think I would kind of want my husband to
Speaker 1: have a hot assistant because it would make me very competitive.
Speaker 1: Would but would you want him to have a hot
Speaker 1: assistant if you had already been that hot assistant? I mean,
Speaker 1: because you know that this person is predisposed to, like,
Speaker 1: I think it's okay to funk their assistant. I mean yeah,
Speaker 1: because it would you know, give me the opportunity to,
Speaker 1: I don't know, drop a chandelier on them or something
Speaker 1: I'm gonna swing from the Yeah that's actually Beyonce, was
Speaker 1: she She She asked requested that that music be played
Speaker 1: in you know, in the early stages of this cat
Speaker 1: and mouse game between Ali Larder and Aadris Elba, like
Speaker 1: they do become friendly because of the way that she
Speaker 1: the ways in which she manipulates him, which is like
Speaker 1: by staging this like you know, breakdown in the break
Speaker 1: room at work where she's crying about a guy and
Speaker 1: he like comforts her and then they start. I am
Speaker 1: NG And her screen name is temp Girl, which which
Speaker 1: definitely to me is like a spiritual sister to Carrie
Speaker 1: Bradshaw's screen name, which is shoe Gal. Also, Temp Girl
Speaker 1: sounds like a separate movie that I would watch. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like when me, I'm a temporary girl because I
Speaker 1: transitioned and then I will eventually wait, what was your
Speaker 1: screen name? Have we talked about this? I think we have.
Speaker 1: But my like original a I AM screen name for
Speaker 1: a while was well I thought when I when when
Speaker 1: I made it, I thought it was I am Psycho
Speaker 1: because I was like a goth. But I spelled it
Speaker 1: wrong and so it was actually I am Fisco, I
Speaker 1: am I just choked on my own spit mine mine
Speaker 1: like miss Jennerman. Mine was frand man one S three
Speaker 1: brand man, Oh my god. And then of course it
Speaker 1: became later became friends Squitch go ahead, but adriss gay Assistant,
Speaker 1: Like there's a moment where he calls the gay assistant
Speaker 1: and Ali Larder in to talk to him, and he's like,
Speaker 1: all right, ladies, let's go. He does, he does, and
Speaker 1: then Ali Larder at one point calls the gay assistant,
Speaker 1: you silly old queen. Wait wait, wait a second, we
Speaker 1: need a whole other movie about this gay assistant, because
Speaker 1: that is to me. The gay assistant also like gives
Speaker 1: Ali Larder a lot of the information she needs to
Speaker 1: um to trick Adris Elba. The most pressing question I
Speaker 1: had when watching this movie is has Beyonce ever celebrated
Speaker 1: Ali Larter's birthday on beyonce dot com. Absolutely not, no way.
Speaker 1: I'm sure that they got dot com Ali Larder. Beyonce
Speaker 1: has a very small class of christened white women that
Speaker 1: she wishes a happy birthday too. It's Reese Witherspoon, it's
Speaker 1: I don't know, Adele. Maybe I'm hoping that one year
Speaker 1: soon Beyonce will do a birthday post for Ali Larder.
Speaker 1: I thought you were going to say for you, You're
Speaker 1: gonna me. I don't think that that's never gonna happen.
Speaker 1: Oh um. Ali Larterer sends Adris Elba a bunch of
Speaker 1: sexy photos at one point and in them she's wearing
Speaker 1: a Fedora, not the Fedora Fedora this is two thousand nine.
Speaker 1: I mean, Jason Mraz was very prevalent during this time,
Speaker 1: his impact, his Foedor and did you ever own a
Speaker 1: Fedora girl? Jason Mraz was not only one of my
Speaker 1: favorite music artists, but I did own several Fedora's. Have
Speaker 1: you ever seen Jason Mraz live? Yeah? I did own
Speaker 1: a Fedora one. Did you really? There's no shame, you know,
Speaker 1: we we are you know, it's a consequence. There is
Speaker 1: totally shame. There is absolutely shame. I used to have
Speaker 1: a huge crush on Jason Mraz, bisexual king. He to
Speaker 1: me looks, you know, like frail led us to me
Speaker 1: um And to answer your question, I've never seen him
Speaker 1: in concert, but I have seen you know, his female
Speaker 1: female um woman counterpart Ingrid Michaelson in concert. I was
Speaker 1: the first concert I ever went to alone. One thing
Speaker 1: about this movie is that the phrase sexual harassment is
Speaker 1: only uttered once, like surprise, it's even once, and that's
Speaker 1: really like I also thought that was interesting, like in
Speaker 1: the same way that like the racial element is never
Speaker 1: acknowledged like the sexual paul tics of this aren't really acknowledged,
Speaker 1: which I guess like it's a very pre to movie. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it is very pre to, and like, you know, I
Speaker 1: don't know if like talking about sexual harassment would necessarily
Speaker 1: make the movie more interesting, but it's just it's like
Speaker 1: weird that it's like it only ever acknowledged once kind
Speaker 1: of in passing right, and if it was made in
Speaker 1: this day and age, it would definitely be even if
Speaker 1: it wasn't explicitly mentioned, it would be the conversation the film.
Speaker 1: It also like the movie is just crazy and that
Speaker 1: it is so completely a male fantasy, like because this
Speaker 1: doesn't happen. I'm sure, yes, I'm sure there are women
Speaker 1: who harass men who like our predatory, but systematically, like
Speaker 1: within the patriarchy, this does not happen, and this instead
Speaker 1: actually like maybe you can look at this movie as
Speaker 1: like this is what men tell themselves happens when they
Speaker 1: are actually really harassing and assaulting, say that, oh my god,
Speaker 1: like this is how they rationalize it to themselves. Is
Speaker 1: like she was crazy, she was coming on to me.
Speaker 1: There was nothing going on between us. Pylog chandelier, thank god. Yeah, yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: So speaking of male fantasy, I watched Fatal Attraction last night.
Speaker 1: I've never seen it. Okay, very excited for you to
Speaker 1: watch it. I won't, you know, maybe talk about it
Speaker 1: in crucial detail. But when that film came out, and
Speaker 1: obviously these two, like thinking about Obsessed and Fatal Attraction,
Speaker 1: they're all within this like same genre of a male
Speaker 1: imagination of a scorned, dangerous like woman, like a woman
Speaker 1: who is so unhinged and so in love with a
Speaker 1: man that she is now like murderous. It's interesting to
Speaker 1: see how that kind of movie has evolved into things
Speaker 1: like Gone Girl, where like that trope of the crazy
Speaker 1: woman has now the come like we're now looking at
Speaker 1: the woman's point of view, where like these movies like
Speaker 1: even though we remember about Obsessed, that it's like about
Speaker 1: Beyonce and Ali Larder, Like really the movie Idris Elba
Speaker 1: is the protagonist and technically almost the entire movie is
Speaker 1: from his point of view, but it still feels like
Speaker 1: Beyonce's movie kind of even though I guess Ali maybe
Speaker 1: she's really sidelined, and like even Ali Larder is, and
Speaker 1: like you don't understand their motivations, like you really only
Speaker 1: understand like the interiority of why Idris Elba is making
Speaker 1: the decisions he's making. And so like now I see
Speaker 1: like a direct line from that on like the way
Speaker 1: that culture has changed to things like Gone Girl, where
Speaker 1: you are understanding these women who in movies like this,
Speaker 1: like we don't know why they're making the choices they're
Speaker 1: making and they're just written off as crazy women. And
Speaker 1: now we're seeing women make bad decisions and like be
Speaker 1: the villains, but like we're getting the psychology of why
Speaker 1: they're doing exactly. It's kind of like, um, okay, I
Speaker 1: want to get to Gone Girl, or honestly even like
Speaker 1: something like Ingrid Goes West like or like something which
Speaker 1: I've also never seen. Uh, okay, we'll talk about it.
Speaker 1: But like I I feel like it's worth diving a
Speaker 1: little bit into Fatal Attraction because when you know, Obsessed
Speaker 1: came out that she gets shot in a bathtub at
Speaker 1: the end spoiler. If you've seen Bridget Jones's diary, you
Speaker 1: know what happens in Fatal Attraction? Does does she watch
Speaker 1: it and Bridge at the beginning? That's very on the nose.
Speaker 1: Um I didn't realize that, Okay, so um, yes, she
Speaker 1: does die in a bathtub in the end that the
Speaker 1: premise loosely is, you know, a wealthy guy, he has
Speaker 1: a perfect kid, a perfect wife, similar to obsessed. He
Speaker 1: decides to do what men do. He cheats on his wife.
Speaker 1: The inciting incident is that he does cheat and he
Speaker 1: has this kind of weekend affair with Glenn Close, who
Speaker 1: is I think attempt at his publishing house. So what
Speaker 1: is it with tempts? I want to watch a movie
Speaker 1: about psycho sexual tempts. Honestly, temps if you're listening, yeah,
Speaker 1: please let us know if you have ever um, you know,
Speaker 1: been killed by a chandelier. What if we did what
Speaker 1: if there was a modern day we should do a
Speaker 1: modern day adaptation of the Tempest. But it's um like
Speaker 1: a workplace drama. Yeah about temps Um anyways, pst because
Speaker 1: it's on Easter time, right right, So after Michael Douglas
Speaker 1: has an affair with Glenn Close, Um, it's quick, it's
Speaker 1: kind of very quickly revealed that she has basically like
Speaker 1: borderline personality. This Michael Douglas in Fatal Attraction. He's not
Speaker 1: my type. He looks a little too much like a
Speaker 1: like a like a sack of flower to me. But
Speaker 1: I do think that he was a very compelling kind
Speaker 1: of anchor for the film. Um. And I think I
Speaker 1: want to get into the conversation of performances because the
Speaker 1: balance of performances in these two films is so different.
Speaker 1: But it's a it's a very specific kind of look.
Speaker 1: It's not really it's it's been for me me. So basically,
Speaker 1: Glenn Close gets pregnant. She says, I'm going to have
Speaker 1: this baby, and he's like, you can't do that, Like,
Speaker 1: my wife doesn't know about this. I have a whole
Speaker 1: life outside of you, Like, we can't do this together.
Speaker 1: And of course she like stalks and harasses him until um,
Speaker 1: he and his wife work together to kill her. Um.
Speaker 1: Literally I wish it. I know. Isn't that so sweet?
Speaker 1: So romantic? Um? But it's what's amazing about this about
Speaker 1: that kind of comparing these two is like when I said, oh,
Speaker 1: it's like Beyonce's film, You're right, she was really sidelined
Speaker 1: in it. But in Fatal Attraction, it's glenn closest movie.
Speaker 1: And let me tell you, but does it spend time
Speaker 1: with her? You know? It does? It does spend I
Speaker 1: think it spends more time with Glenn than it does
Speaker 1: with someone like Beyonce. Obviously there are different rules. Beyonce
Speaker 1: is the one being cheated on. Glenn is the other woman,
Speaker 1: so she Glenn is kind of the alley larder but Beyonce,
Speaker 1: but Glenn is just like to me, out of all
Speaker 1: six of these kind of actors, like completed the picture
Speaker 1: and did the most like acting. Well, she's gone close.
Speaker 1: And what she did was also like Cinema an off
Speaker 1: star exactly. I know, Well, that's so funny. She lost
Speaker 1: the off This was the movie that they thought she
Speaker 1: was already three Oscar Noms in by the time this
Speaker 1: movie came out, and she lost this one to share,
Speaker 1: can you? And this was the one that they thought
Speaker 1: she was gonna the one she should have one because
Speaker 1: she was brilliant. But I have to, like, you know,
Speaker 1: say that like um yeah, to answer your question. She
Speaker 1: is not like as maybe she's like a little peripheral,
Speaker 1: but it doesn't matter because she just sucks the air
Speaker 1: out of every scene. And but does it does the
Speaker 1: movie to do the work to make you understand her
Speaker 1: side of the story only a little bit. Obviously, know
Speaker 1: the way the movie is written is still Michael Douglas
Speaker 1: slash Idris Elba is the protagonist. He is the center
Speaker 1: of the film. It's all about his moral center and
Speaker 1: like his kind of thing. The reason Fatal Attraction is
Speaker 1: ultimately a better movie despite being so abhorrently misogynist, is
Speaker 1: the fact that like the complexity of him cheating on
Speaker 1: his wife is really in the film, and like he
Speaker 1: their ramifications to it. His wife gets really mad, like
Speaker 1: they kind of like sort through a really weird kind
Speaker 1: of like psycho sexual like um conversation around what to
Speaker 1: do about the baby, what to do about cheating whatever,
Speaker 1: and instead of going to couples therapy, they just team
Speaker 1: up to kill the mystery exactly. And but despite the
Speaker 1: fact that Michael Douglas is an amazing actor, um, the
Speaker 1: wife whose name escapes me is an amazing actress, and
Speaker 1: even the child actor let me tell you and aggressively
Speaker 1: non binary child and this in this film is an
Speaker 1: amazing child actor, like so so good in this film,
Speaker 1: despite all of them being amazing actors, Like, the only
Speaker 1: person anyone was talking about after this, you know, after
Speaker 1: thirty years later is Glain Close and she invented this trope. Um.
Speaker 1: But something that I have to say that was very
Speaker 1: surprising is that did you notice there's kind of almost
Speaker 1: like Twilight e Phil alter Over everything. It's like really
Speaker 1: like weird, like white light, like the cinema. The cinema
Speaker 1: is like not really there. You know, it's not something
Speaker 1: you pay attention to in the film. I think you're
Speaker 1: mistaking a lack of like a filmmaking choice with the
Speaker 1: very distinct filmmaking choice that happens in Twilight. Yeah, okay, okay, yeah, yeah, sure, sure, sure, Um,
Speaker 1: don't conflate those things. Yeah, of course I would never.
Speaker 1: I would never. Um, I know, I'm we do not
Speaker 1: send her Twilight on this podcast. No, no no, no, would never,
Speaker 1: would never. Something that really surprising about Fatal Attraction is
Speaker 1: that it was gorgeous, Like every frame is so beautiful, um,
Speaker 1: and every costume is so beautiful. There's a scene it's
Speaker 1: kind of mirroring the scene when Ali Larder is in
Speaker 1: his car in underwear. She shows up in his to
Speaker 1: his office wearing nothing but this huge black trench coat
Speaker 1: with like shoulder pads up to her ears, Like she
Speaker 1: looks so amazing, and like there's another Her apartment is
Speaker 1: so she it's like all white brick and she has
Speaker 1: like vintage X her size bike, and like there's a
Speaker 1: scene where she's like sitting and eating like Chinese takeout.
Speaker 1: It's like every frame is like so gorge and her
Speaker 1: hair is like the like it was during like a
Speaker 1: perm era kind of because I think the late exactly
Speaker 1: the late eighties, and that to me, like her hair
Speaker 1: did so much work on top of what she was
Speaker 1: doing acting wise. And I think the reason I wanted
Speaker 1: to talk about it is because the casting of Ali
Speaker 1: Larder feels like they tried to find someone who what
Speaker 1: could be villainous but also feel like basic in like
Speaker 1: her own kind of whiteness. And so when they went
Speaker 1: to cast Fatal Attraction, Glen Close was like their last pick.
Speaker 1: They went through so many different actresses and glen Close
Speaker 1: was chasing them the third this third, three nominations in
Speaker 1: Glen Closes chasing these casting directors being like I like
Speaker 1: this role, I want to do this film, um, And
Speaker 1: she had to basically like show up to an audition.
Speaker 1: Glen Close had to audition in like a little black dress,
Speaker 1: and she showed up with the PERM and the casting directors,
Speaker 1: having never seen the perm before, We're like, Glenn, is
Speaker 1: it she can do sex appeal, and the sex scenes
Speaker 1: in the movie are really good. By the way, you'll
Speaker 1: you know, you'll watch it, I mean the the Ali Larder.
Speaker 1: I liked what you said about like being villainous but
Speaker 1: kind of basic, because that very much was the trope
Speaker 1: of her at the time, because, like I think about
Speaker 1: legally blonde, she's this like sorority girl who's in prison
Speaker 1: because they think she murdered her husband. And then on
Speaker 1: heroes did you ever watch Heroes? No? I didn't. She
Speaker 1: was a stripper who had a split personality, and her
Speaker 1: split personality had super strength and would like black out
Speaker 1: and then wake up and find out that her like
Speaker 1: alter ego had killed a bunch of people. Um so
Speaker 1: that very much like is the kind of role that
Speaker 1: she was known for playing, Like this kind of like
Speaker 1: basic looking, pretty blonde girl who actually was you know,
Speaker 1: a psycho killer. Yeah. And the thing I think maybe
Speaker 1: one of the reasons that the casting directors were averse
Speaker 1: to Glen Close is because there's nothing basic about her face.
Speaker 1: She's very distinct. She gives a prestige vibe, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean, Maybe they felt like she was too
Speaker 1: complex for the role, But um, what Glen Close, you know,
Speaker 1: said at the time and also has talked about thirty
Speaker 1: years later, is that she was really attracted to the
Speaker 1: complexity of this character that they rendered really flat and
Speaker 1: really misogynistically in the end um in a way that
Speaker 1: Glen Close was actually against, which I want to talk about.
Speaker 1: Remember when we saw Glenn Close, Oh my god, we
Speaker 1: were We were at the after party for the prom
Speaker 1: on Broadway. Forgot about that. We were sitting on a
Speaker 1: table eating. We have to say that it was like
Speaker 1: Ryan Murphy's party. Every Ryan Murphy muse was there. Yes, um,
Speaker 1: like Billy Porter, all of the post girls like and
Speaker 1: Glenn Close, who was standing right behind our table talking
Speaker 1: to Sandra Bernhard like the gayest thing ever. And we
Speaker 1: were chatting and I'm talking to Rose and I say,
Speaker 1: Rose behind you, like four or five ft behind you,
Speaker 1: not even like maybe less. Glen Close is talking to
Speaker 1: Sandraw bird Hard and You're like, oh my god. And
Speaker 1: you were like take a picture to picture for me.
Speaker 1: And we were those girls, we were, but Glen Close
Speaker 1: is the moment, and um, this I think is like
Speaker 1: maybe we can get into like the kind of wider
Speaker 1: conversation of like what this kind of woman means in
Speaker 1: a film, and how this exact archetype is still so
Speaker 1: prevalent in every single year we will get a movie
Speaker 1: with a character like this, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: But now we root for them, like you watch Gone
Speaker 1: Girl and you want amazing Amy to succeed, and like
Speaker 1: she does ultimately, And you know what's funny, It's like
Speaker 1: when I watched Fatal Attraction, I kind of thought, like
Speaker 1: I bet everyone involved and realize like how dated this
Speaker 1: would become blah blah, But when I read about it,
Speaker 1: so Glenn. The original ending of a Fatal Attraction um
Speaker 1: has Glenn Close slitting her own throat and framing Michael
Speaker 1: Douglas for which is good and that's why Glenn agreed
Speaker 1: to do the film. They filmed this ending, tested it all,
Speaker 1: audiences hated it because they wanted to kill Glenn Close
Speaker 1: so bad, like they wanted her to be murdered, and
Speaker 1: so they were like, we can't do this, we have
Speaker 1: to reshoot the film. And Glenn Close fought the directors
Speaker 1: and the entire team for two whole weeks being like,
Speaker 1: I will not do that ending. This is the ending
Speaker 1: that is sympathetic to my character. It's a complete betrayal
Speaker 1: to the character that I've created to have her pick
Speaker 1: up a knife, like she wouldn't come at a knife
Speaker 1: with them, she would kill herself, which I think is
Speaker 1: so beautiful and so sympathetic. She was so ahead of
Speaker 1: her time in that regard. And also it's so funny
Speaker 1: that you say it took them one week to film
Speaker 1: the Obsessed fight scene, because I just learned that it
Speaker 1: took three weeks I think to film the fatal Attraction
Speaker 1: scene at the end, which is also very good. Is
Speaker 1: it between Glenn and Michael Douglas. Yes, it's between Glen
Speaker 1: and Michael Douglas, which is another reason why I think upset.
Speaker 1: I think it's one of the wings of Obsessed is
Speaker 1: I think the fight between the two women is more interesting. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: And also watching Michael Douglas a woman is kind of hard.
Speaker 1: It's kind of wild to watch, like the film is
Speaker 1: would almost earn it if it wasn't so imbued in
Speaker 1: you know, this completely untouched conversation of mental health that
Speaker 1: is in Obsessed, that is in Fatal Attraction, Like it's
Speaker 1: not really like, you know, besides calling her crazy, there's
Speaker 1: not any attempt to look at why this woman is
Speaker 1: doing these things. I mean, how there's no motivation. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And also like the violence between the two women is
Speaker 1: like kind of a sign of of like maybe some
Speaker 1: kind of progression from fatal attraction, because there are so
Speaker 1: many moments in the film where like a DRIs like
Speaker 1: you see kind of like a restraint of violence of him,
Speaker 1: like you know, to like shake Ali Larder, but he's
Speaker 1: not going to hit her. Right again, It's like the
Speaker 1: movie that Obsessed is really it stays closer to it's
Speaker 1: like moral center in that regard, yeah, because it can't
Speaker 1: make him outright a villain, even though I still think
Speaker 1: he is, like obviously like Ali Larder is a villain,
Speaker 1: but like when you have someone acting in ways that
Speaker 1: are that evil but like you don't understand why they're
Speaker 1: doing them, it becomes like a caricature of villainy and
Speaker 1: it's just like so kind of like ridiculous. Um. And
Speaker 1: so I think I think the most evil person in
Speaker 1: the movie is Idris Elba because he did this to
Speaker 1: Beyonce by not being honest with her about what was
Speaker 1: going on, or going to human Resources and being like, hey,
Speaker 1: this temp is sexually harassing me, Like you need to
Speaker 1: get her out of here. Okay, so this is like
Speaker 1: a segue into Guests. How like we consume these movies now,
Speaker 1: because when I watched Obsessed, I remember thinking kind of
Speaker 1: the same thing, being like, this is Atris fault and
Speaker 1: the movie maybe wants you to kind of want to
Speaker 1: kill Ali Larder. When I watched Fatal Attraction, obviously, what
Speaker 1: Michael Douglas is does is so much more abhorrent than
Speaker 1: what Hedris does. He openly cheats many many times, lies
Speaker 1: a ton. Glen Close is constantly calling his home phone
Speaker 1: and like hanging up and stuff. So he moves his
Speaker 1: entire family upstate without telling them that the reason why,
Speaker 1: which is wild And so anyways, when I was watching
Speaker 1: the film, I was like, obviously, Michael Douglas is like
Speaker 1: the worst person here, but the film wants you to
Speaker 1: think that Glenn Close is the worst person here here.
Speaker 1: But in the conversation of Gone Girl and movies like it,
Speaker 1: the movie is saying that Rosamond Pike is the girl
Speaker 1: you're rooting for, kind of or the the anti heroes
Speaker 1: to speak. Yeah, she's still the villain, but it wants
Speaker 1: you to understand why she's making the choices she's making
Speaker 1: and the power of her making herself the victim and
Speaker 1: turning her husband into the villain, um into like the
Speaker 1: weird guy smiling on TV when his wife has gone missing. Um,
Speaker 1: and you know, like it sets the people who would
Speaker 1: normally in these stories be the heroes, like you know,
Speaker 1: the husband, like the man who rescues her Neil Patrick Harris. Oh,
Speaker 1: I forgot about that. Into the villains best work to
Speaker 1: be I think so too, And I very much enjoyed
Speaker 1: watching him get his throats. Yeah, honestly, you know, it's
Speaker 1: so funny, is um. Now I'm thinking about the husband
Speaker 1: archetype and how fatal attraction and Gone Girl. Like the husband,
Speaker 1: this guy is really this kind of sympathetic but ultimately
Speaker 1: uh snivelly, kind of maybe loser, where Idris is kind
Speaker 1: of something of a prince charming, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: which again makes me less you know, interesting. Um, But
Speaker 1: I actually haven't seen Gone Girl, And because I would,
Speaker 1: like a moment and obsessed of you thinking Idris might
Speaker 1: have sex with Ali Larder. Yeah, but that's the other
Speaker 1: thing is like this man who is smart enough to
Speaker 1: like not cheat, but he's not smart enough to tell
Speaker 1: his wife like it just didn't make sense. No one's
Speaker 1: decision a movie makes sense except for a Beyonce. And
Speaker 1: even then, I'm like, why is she deciding to take
Speaker 1: this woman on herself? Because like when she goes back
Speaker 1: to the house, like she gets inside and understands Ali
Speaker 1: Larder is there and goes to confront her, and that's
Speaker 1: why they have this death match. It feels to me
Speaker 1: like something of a mama their um steaks because has
Speaker 1: touched her child exactly. A reboot is being made a
Speaker 1: fatal attraction. It was like canceled multiple times, but apparently
Speaker 1: Lizzie Kaplan is going to be when I love Lizzie
Speaker 1: and I also love Lizzie Kaplin. But my question to
Speaker 1: you is, you know, in the idea of reboots, not
Speaker 1: that we're a huge fan of reboots in general, if
Speaker 1: we were to do a kind of scorned murderous woman movie, now,
Speaker 1: what would that What do you think that would look like?
Speaker 1: You are a scorned murderous woman, Rose, if you had
Speaker 1: to kill a man, what would you do? Rose? You? Okay,
Speaker 1: the virgins can't see, but Rose kind of has like
Speaker 1: a facial expression that's like, what do you mean if um,
Speaker 1: I guess like I need to think about where we
Speaker 1: are culturally and like how we would update it for today.
Speaker 1: What if it was like um ugly Betty esque like
Speaker 1: magazine kind of thing, because well, I can't remember what
Speaker 1: Idris does. He's a lawyer. He's a lawyer, Okay, in
Speaker 1: Fail Attractions publishing house. Okay. So this girl, So the
Speaker 1: girl in this movie, Um, it's a podcaster. Does she
Speaker 1: run a podcast with a nonminory Mexican? Yeah, she's no,
Speaker 1: she has a she's on a podcast with like a
Speaker 1: couple other you know, she's a millennial. She's a millennial podcaster.
Speaker 1: And she meets this guy on Tinder and they start
Speaker 1: hooking up, and she finds out that he is in
Speaker 1: a relationship with a man. He's bisexual. He's bisexual, but
Speaker 1: like he says he's gay because he is has like
Speaker 1: internalized biphobio, right, he doesn't really even probably understand his
Speaker 1: own desire, and like he's in an open relationship, so
Speaker 1: he like could have sex, but it's like his own
Speaker 1: self hatred that keeps him from being honest about the
Speaker 1: fact that he is having sex with them, like maybe
Speaker 1: falling in love with this woman. And so she is
Speaker 1: like gas lit into thinking that, you know, he's cheating
Speaker 1: on her. She doesn't even know he's married to a man.
Speaker 1: She thinks he's married to a woman. And then she
Speaker 1: finds out he's married to a man, and she's like,
Speaker 1: you're a gag and he's like, he's like, yeah, I
Speaker 1: don't know what I'm figuring. Yeah, He's like, I don't know.
Speaker 1: And then but then he has kind of a come
Speaker 1: to Jesus moment where he reckons with his own bisexuality
Speaker 1: and he's like, Okay, so like this has let me
Speaker 1: accept that I am bisexual. But I think, like, bearing
Speaker 1: in mind everything that's gone on, like we should just
Speaker 1: like you know, we're we're not gonna be together anymore. Right.
Speaker 1: At the midpoint of the film, he watches season eight
Speaker 1: of Are You the One, and he's like, I finally
Speaker 1: understand my own attraction. Okay, so wait, if if I'm
Speaker 1: the kind of if we're trying to root for the
Speaker 1: woman in this the other woman quote unquote in this scenario,
Speaker 1: but she always dies in the film in this like
Speaker 1: modern remake, would she die? Or who who dies? In?
Speaker 1: How so? She kills the husband of the guy because
Speaker 1: she thinks that he has like tricked her man into
Speaker 1: being gay because she's like, you're not bisexual. Bisexuality isn't real,
Speaker 1: So like the biphobia transfers from him to her. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: the film is ultimately about biphobia. And she goes, she
Speaker 1: goes on a rampage. Um, she kills the husband, she
Speaker 1: kills um, I don't know, like her doorman building. And
Speaker 1: then they ultimately have a showdown at an abandoned gay bar,
Speaker 1: shut down because of gentrification. Um, and it's where he
Speaker 1: used to cruise, and she has she injects herself with
Speaker 1: testosterone because she's like, if you can only love a man,
Speaker 1: I'm going to I'm going to transition. And he's like, no,
Speaker 1: it's not that I don't love you because you're not
Speaker 1: a man. I'm bisexual. I don't love you because you're
Speaker 1: a psycho and you killed my husband. And she's like
Speaker 1: that no, and so she overdoses on testosterone and right
Speaker 1: as she dies, the police come in and like, she
Speaker 1: has made it look like this man killed her. You
Speaker 1: that okay, I think the virgins at home would think
Speaker 1: that is so far fetched. But actually thinking about these
Speaker 1: movies in the eighties and also this like early movie,
Speaker 1: Like that is so something that would happen, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean, Like that is a kind of level
Speaker 1: of absurdity that would happen in this day and age. Um,
Speaker 1: if they wanted to render this character completely. Um wow,
Speaker 1: I think that's a great idea for a movie. So
Speaker 1: anyone out there is listening, if you want to if
Speaker 1: if you want to make it, I will write a treatment. Listen.
Speaker 1: Oh my god. Also, your talking of bisexuality reminded me that,
Speaker 1: Um I was reading that. Um another reason that people
Speaker 1: were so like engaged in like psycho sexual thrillers in
Speaker 1: the eighties because like there was just I guess an
Speaker 1: onside of them. I think basic Instinct was around that time. UM,
Speaker 1: a few others like maybe early nineties okay, Um, but
Speaker 1: apparently they were kind of capitalizing off of, um, fear
Speaker 1: of like aids, because like infidelity, like a fear of
Speaker 1: infidelity kind of brought AIDS into the conversation, meaning like
Speaker 1: if you cheat on me, you could give me AIDS.
Speaker 1: Isn't that crazy? Yeah? But it's also interesting that it
Speaker 1: like it's only kind of refracted through the lens of
Speaker 1: straight culture. But there also were a bunch of Um,
Speaker 1: you know, like these kind of sexual thrillers about trans women. UM,
Speaker 1: Like there's one called I think it's Dressed to Kill. Um. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a film so like maybe a little early for
Speaker 1: the for the AIDS epidemic, I remember, but it's um,
Speaker 1: it's in it. Michael Caine plays across dressing murderer. I
Speaker 1: remember this and so like, and that's also in kind
Speaker 1: of Silence of the Lambs a few others. Um, and yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it's just very interesting like that we have yet
Speaker 1: to have a queer version of what this dynamic is
Speaker 1: because I think so much of the drama in these
Speaker 1: movies hinges on, like the trope of the hysterical woman
Speaker 1: and like that can only be applied to her being
Speaker 1: in love with a man. Although I guess Basic Instinct
Speaker 1: subverts that because I believe Sharon Stone's character in it
Speaker 1: is bisexual. Oh really, Oh my gosh, I have to
Speaker 1: watch Basic Instinct. Phoebe was producer. Phoebe was Sharon Stone
Speaker 1: and Basic Instinct for Halloween. That's incredible. How when my
Speaker 1: thriller gets made, which, what's it going to be? Called?
Speaker 1: Dressed to Kill? That's probably that's the movie I was
Speaker 1: just about. It could be a reboot. No, it has
Speaker 1: to be something like there has to be some kind
Speaker 1: of bisexual thing. Oh um, well, obviously the key r
Speaker 1: of the film is going to be like red and
Speaker 1: blue and they meet in the mirdle in the middle
Speaker 1: to create a kind of purple tone, so it looks
Speaker 1: like the bisexual flag. Um, it's gonna be called like,
Speaker 1: it's gonna be called atomic blonde. It's going to be
Speaker 1: called like greedy or something. You know. That's the thing
Speaker 1: about bisexual people, that's we're greedy. That's good. That's very good. Okay, okay, Um,
Speaker 1: how am I glutton for punishment? That's what we'll call it,
Speaker 1: glutton for punishment? I think. Um, you know it's funny
Speaker 1: that oh no, oh, and the girl by the way,
Speaker 1: the whole thing that happens at the end where she
Speaker 1: like does the testosterone and frames him for her murder,
Speaker 1: it's all being broadcast live on her podcast. Oh that
Speaker 1: is a good. Final twist is that everyone knows, you know,
Speaker 1: we're being kind of funny. But I'm I am genuinely
Speaker 1: interested in a gone girl like movie that kind of
Speaker 1: um inhabits the perspective of the kind of quote unquote
Speaker 1: other woman. I think that when I first started to
Speaker 1: when I win into a movie like Fatal Attraction, I
Speaker 1: was kind of prepared to hate it and prepared to,
Speaker 1: um really find it to be problematic or and or dated.
Speaker 1: But I thought it was an exceptional film that had
Speaker 1: like one fatal flaw of like not really kind of
Speaker 1: rooting or complicating the woman. Glenn Close filled in so
Speaker 1: many blanks in the script to kind of render a
Speaker 1: more complex kind of antihero um even though it's not
Speaker 1: framed that way in the film. And so I think
Speaker 1: that nowadays, like I would love to see any iteration
Speaker 1: of this kind of like woman who has kind of
Speaker 1: had it. Yeah, And I guess, and I guess that's
Speaker 1: why Obsessed like ultimately isn't a very good movie, even
Speaker 1: though it's an amazing movie, is because like it's not
Speaker 1: really concerned with making these real people. It's only concerned
Speaker 1: and like building building a story that leads to Beyonce
Speaker 1: killing a woman chandelier which is worth it? Which the
Speaker 1: chandelier I'm going to swing from the chandelier from the
Speaker 1: chandelier exactly exactly. Well. My one request is if anyone
Speaker 1: wants to commission us to write this film, which we
Speaker 1: would button for punishment, we will have to do a
Speaker 1: referential image of you know, this lead wearing the leather
Speaker 1: trench coat with tower high shoulder pads and a curly perm.
Speaker 1: And also one thing I forgot is that at the
Speaker 1: end when Ali Larder dies, so like Beyonce has tricked
Speaker 1: her into falling through the floor in their attic and
Speaker 1: then she's like hanging on and Beyonce is like, Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna I don't want you to actually die, so
Speaker 1: like take my hand, I'll save you, and Ali Larder
Speaker 1: takes her arm and then tries to pull her down
Speaker 1: with her to kill them both. It's like it's it's
Speaker 1: like like I said, it's like a caricature of evil,
Speaker 1: but so it's so fun and they both sell it
Speaker 1: so well. Yeah, I wonder is wearing heels throughout this
Speaker 1: whole thing? Is Yeah, I forgot about that she's wearing heels.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, that is conique. And I did see.
Speaker 1: I did read that Beyonce had never done like fight
Speaker 1: corea before, but because of her dance background, like she
Speaker 1: came to it very naturally. Oh, I had no idea. Well,
Speaker 1: she yeah, it makes complete sense. She's such a she
Speaker 1: can perform literally anything. Um. I want to also, just
Speaker 1: so that you know there's no erasure on this podcast,
Speaker 1: we have to say that Obsessed belongs to you know,
Speaker 1: um eons of people dying by chandelier among them, you know,
Speaker 1: Phantom of the No One, No one dies, but intent
Speaker 1: intent to murder Startust does happen in start Us there
Speaker 1: is a moment with a chandelier, but no, Harry Potter,
Speaker 1: there's a chandelier thing. Someone just drops a chandelier on someone.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna oh no, actually no, Michelle Michelle Phifer does
Speaker 1: die because of the chandelier in Stardust. That's an excellent movie,
Speaker 1: by the way, and like Michelle Phifer, Yeah, I love Stardust.
Speaker 1: Has Michelle Pfeiffer been in one of these movies? You know?
Speaker 1: What's so funny is because she seems like the type.
Speaker 1: The second gland Close walked on the screen, I immediately
Speaker 1: saw Michelle Phifer in Batman. Well, yeah, I mean I
Speaker 1: think actually Michelle Phifer's plotline in Batman like, at least
Speaker 1: the Christopher walking part of her Catwoman journey like, does
Speaker 1: feel kind of lifted from one of these kinds of movies.
Speaker 1: It definitely does. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Well Meal, We'll be
Speaker 1: back next week with the discussion on Anime with J. P. Brammer.
Speaker 1: We're gonna talk about Excited Pokemon, Sailor Move and Neon Genesis, Evangelion,
Speaker 1: all of those things. In the meantime, you can catch
Speaker 1: up on a few of those shows, or also you
Speaker 1: can let us know what you thought about this week's
Speaker 1: episode on Twitter, Instagram. Show us your favorite frame of
Speaker 1: Fatal Attraction, tell us so what was your favorite line
Speaker 1: from Obsessed? How would to Hell? But until then, I
Speaker 1: suggest the fourth season. You can tell us what to
Speaker 1: talk about next, whether it's a show, a book, a
Speaker 1: cultural phenomenon we want to hear from you Call to
Speaker 1: confess at three to three Pennance that's three to three seven,
Speaker 1: three six two six to three. You can leave us
Speaker 1: a review on Apple Podcasts. You can leave us a
Speaker 1: rating on Spotify. I'm your co host fran Toronto. You
Speaker 1: can find me at France Squish co wherever on social
Speaker 1: media and sub stack as well. And I'm rost damn You.
Speaker 1: You can find me on Instagram, Twitter and TikTok at
Speaker 1: Rose dam you can subscribe to like a version anywhere
Speaker 1: you listen Like a Virgin is an I Heart Radio production.
Speaker 1: Our producer is Phoebe Inter, the one and Only, with
Speaker 1: support from Lindsay Hoffman, Julian Weller, Just Cranechitch and Nikki
Speaker 1: Etour until next week, See you later, Virgins. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: swing from the Shandelie here, from the shandel here. So
Speaker 1: canceled now we we can't do this. Two