WEBVTT - BONUS: A chat with Melissa Gilbert 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:04.080 Hello Wilder listeners, This is producer Emily taking over for 0:00:04.160 --> 0:00:08.120 Glenneth today because we are still prepping for our final episode. 0:00:08.320 --> 0:00:10.680 Thank you to everyone who's come this far with us, 0:00:10.720 --> 0:00:13.280 and especially thank you to those who have reached out 0:00:13.360 --> 0:00:16.280 to share about their relationship with Laura in their life. 0:00:16.440 --> 0:00:19.320 We're incorporating a bunch of your feedback into our grand 0:00:19.360 --> 0:00:22.439 finale episode. But while you wait for that, we have 0:00:22.520 --> 0:00:25.520 a surprise for you. There are so many things we 0:00:25.560 --> 0:00:28.400 haven't been able to include in this series. Moments from 0:00:28.400 --> 0:00:32.440 the road, more background on Laura and Roses lives, and 0:00:32.520 --> 0:00:36.440 of course all the fascinating things are guests said in interviews. 0:00:36.760 --> 0:00:39.320 We wanted to release one of those full interviews, so 0:00:39.360 --> 0:00:43.919 we present to you our extended Melissa Gilbert interview. If 0:00:43.920 --> 0:00:46.760 you grew up loving The Little House television show, you 0:00:46.880 --> 0:00:50.240 know Melissa Gilbert. I know that when Glennis first started 0:00:50.280 --> 0:00:52.800 talking to me about a podcast about Laura Ingles Wilder, 0:00:53.120 --> 0:00:55.640 the first image that popped up in my head was 0:00:55.720 --> 0:00:59.080 ten year old Melissa running down that grassy hill with 0:00:59.280 --> 0:01:03.240 braids of floral calico dress. Of course, now we know 0:01:03.400 --> 0:01:06.759 that Laura is so many things, and no one understands 0:01:06.800 --> 0:01:10.160 that legacy better than Melissa, who's been shouldering a part. 0:01:10.040 --> 0:01:11.880 Of it for the past fifty years. 0:01:12.280 --> 0:01:14.600 We're so thankful that she was willing to talk to 0:01:14.680 --> 0:01:17.760 us about what that experience has been like. Our conversation 0:01:18.000 --> 0:01:20.480 ranged from her time on the TV show with Michael 0:01:20.560 --> 0:01:23.640 Landon and the rest of the cast, to finding agency 0:01:23.720 --> 0:01:27.720 as a young actor, to her business Modern Prairie, to 0:01:27.800 --> 0:01:30.160 her activism, and even. 0:01:29.920 --> 0:01:32.080 Her thoughts on Rose Wilder Lane. 0:01:32.319 --> 0:01:34.920 We spoke to Melissa over Zoom, where she came to 0:01:35.000 --> 0:01:37.399 us from her home in the Catskills. By the way, 0:01:37.520 --> 0:01:41.759 she now lives there in a very picturesque, cozy, homespun 0:01:42.080 --> 0:01:45.360 Laura esque life. It was so great to talk to her. 0:01:45.560 --> 0:01:48.280 We're so grateful she shared her time with us. We 0:01:48.400 --> 0:01:52.360 hope you enjoy. 0:01:57.440 --> 0:01:59.760 Thank you for agreeing to do this. We're so excited 0:01:59.800 --> 0:02:00.440 that you here. 0:02:01.080 --> 0:02:02.480 Thank you for inviting me. 0:02:02.920 --> 0:02:05.840 I'm thrilled. Nine year old me is beyond thrilled. 0:02:05.920 --> 0:02:09.040 I must tell you, well, first of all, we should 0:02:09.040 --> 0:02:11.040 have you introduced yourself, Melissa. I'm sure everyone's going to 0:02:11.080 --> 0:02:13.320 recognize your voice when they listen to this, but you know, 0:02:13.639 --> 0:02:16.680 for the purposes of three people who might not know 0:02:16.720 --> 0:02:19.480 who you are, if you could just properly introduce yourself, 0:02:19.480 --> 0:02:20.679 that would be really wonderful. 0:02:21.360 --> 0:02:24.400 Uh Hi, I am Melissa Gilbert and I had the 0:02:24.560 --> 0:02:29.799 incredible honor of playing Laura Ingalls Wilder Laura Ingles first, 0:02:29.800 --> 0:02:32.400 and then Laura Ingles Wilder ultimately on Little House in 0:02:32.440 --> 0:02:33.840 the Prairie, the television series. 0:02:34.520 --> 0:02:35.840 How did that come to happen? 0:02:36.760 --> 0:02:39.480 My first TV series? I was Everyron was gun Smoke. 0:02:39.600 --> 0:02:42.160 That's how old I am. I think I was about 0:02:42.200 --> 0:02:44.920 five or six at that point, and I really just 0:02:45.000 --> 0:02:47.720 only did little jobs here and there because my parents 0:02:47.760 --> 0:02:51.320 felt that meeting school was more important. But Little House 0:02:51.320 --> 0:02:53.360 in the Prairie came along, and it was my mom's 0:02:53.360 --> 0:02:57.239 favorite books, and I had read Little House in the 0:02:57.280 --> 0:02:59.480 Big Woods and was starting to read Little House in 0:02:59.480 --> 0:03:01.840 the Prairie that and I was pretty excited. And so 0:03:01.919 --> 0:03:04.400 the decision was made that I would audition. And I 0:03:04.440 --> 0:03:06.280 don't know what everyone else was thinking, but I knew 0:03:06.280 --> 0:03:09.200 there were hundreds of girls auditioning too, so I figured 0:03:09.240 --> 0:03:12.080 it's never going to happen. And then it just, you know, 0:03:12.960 --> 0:03:16.640 was the ordinary process called back back, callback, callback screen test, 0:03:17.320 --> 0:03:21.359 and I got the part, and the adventure began, and 0:03:21.720 --> 0:03:25.520 what an adventure it was. It's been, you know, nearly 0:03:25.639 --> 0:03:29.200 fifty years since we first aired, so it has been 0:03:29.280 --> 0:03:31.720 dipty years since we shot the pilot. Not a day 0:03:31.720 --> 0:03:34.840 goes by that I don't think about Little House in 0:03:34.880 --> 0:03:37.160 the Prairie or mention something to do with Little House 0:03:37.160 --> 0:03:41.760 in the Prey, or Laura or Rose or the Angles relatives, 0:03:42.000 --> 0:03:44.320 or something that has something to do with them, and 0:03:44.360 --> 0:03:48.440 they're so infused in my in my being at this point, 0:03:49.440 --> 0:03:50.080 I want to. 0:03:50.000 --> 0:03:52.080 Talk about that in a bit because I'm curious what 0:03:52.160 --> 0:03:54.840 it's like to shoulder that legacy. But just going back 0:03:54.840 --> 0:03:58.480 to the audition process, did you, during that process audition 0:03:58.600 --> 0:04:01.280 with Michael Landon or any the other members of the 0:04:01.400 --> 0:04:03.240 who eventually became the cast. 0:04:03.680 --> 0:04:05.720 I did. I got to go in and read with 0:04:05.840 --> 0:04:09.720 Michael early On. Kent McCrae, our producer, was there, and 0:04:09.760 --> 0:04:14.120 Susan Sukman, who later became Susan McCrae was there, and 0:04:14.480 --> 0:04:17.400 I remember Michael and the reason I remember Michael Lannon. 0:04:17.960 --> 0:04:20.039 I went to a private school in Los Angeles, the 0:04:20.040 --> 0:04:24.520 Buckley School, and I had auditioned and screen tested for 0:04:24.560 --> 0:04:28.159 a Little House and didn't know if I'd gotten the part, 0:04:28.200 --> 0:04:30.640 and I was at school one day in the lunch area, 0:04:30.720 --> 0:04:33.280 and this other girl ran up to me and she said, 0:04:33.279 --> 0:04:35.520 are you Melissa, And I said yeah. She said I'm 0:04:35.600 --> 0:04:37.960 Leslie Landon. And my dad says, you're going to be Laura, 0:04:38.120 --> 0:04:40.839 And nobody knew. My agents hadn't gotten a call yet. 0:04:41.000 --> 0:04:43.560 My mother didn't know. I ran to the office because 0:04:43.560 --> 0:04:45.800 sand there's no cell phones. Then I ran to the 0:04:45.800 --> 0:04:47.320 office and said it was an emergency. I had to 0:04:47.360 --> 0:04:49.120 call my mom, and my mom called my agents, and 0:04:49.160 --> 0:04:52.400 my agents called the network, and Leslie got so grounded, 0:04:53.920 --> 0:04:57.120 so grounded. We're still friends to this day. But when 0:04:57.160 --> 0:05:00.320 I auditioned, I didn't know who Michael Lennon was. I'd 0:05:00.320 --> 0:05:05.040 never watched Bonanza. My family was beside themselves. My grandfather, 0:05:05.200 --> 0:05:07.400 who was, you know, a very famous comedy writer and 0:05:07.480 --> 0:05:11.200 is all right, sent a note over to Michael and 0:05:11.440 --> 0:05:14.039 he knew him from writing the Dean Martin roasts. And 0:05:14.200 --> 0:05:16.640 my grandfather actually typed out my audition scenes for me 0:05:16.680 --> 0:05:20.000 on his typewriter, and my mom and my godmother, my grandmother, 0:05:20.080 --> 0:05:22.159 everybody were They were all hysterical. And I was going 0:05:22.240 --> 0:05:24.320 to meet this Michael Landon who was supposed to be 0:05:24.600 --> 0:05:27.800 just the best and the most handsome and so talented, 0:05:28.560 --> 0:05:30.640 and I didn't know, and I went into the room 0:05:30.680 --> 0:05:33.200 when I first saw him, and soon as I met him, 0:05:33.200 --> 0:05:36.640 I knew exactly why they were all hysterical. He just 0:05:37.880 --> 0:05:42.160 he glowed, you know, he just he had it undeniable. 0:05:42.440 --> 0:05:44.680 And the first time I heard him laugh, he had 0:05:44.760 --> 0:05:47.440 the best laugh of any human I've ever been around, 0:05:47.440 --> 0:05:51.159 aside from my kids and grandkids, who their laughs killed me. 0:05:51.480 --> 0:05:54.840 But his laugh was just so, this could be it. 0:05:54.920 --> 0:05:57.440 And then I found out later too, after the screen 0:05:57.520 --> 0:06:01.960 test that when they took this great tests to show 0:06:01.960 --> 0:06:05.240 it to NBC to the network, Michael only took mine 0:06:05.720 --> 0:06:08.479 and basically said, if it's not her, then we can't 0:06:08.520 --> 0:06:10.800 do it, which is wow. I'm glad I didn't know 0:06:10.839 --> 0:06:12.520 that at the time. That would have been a lot 0:06:12.560 --> 0:06:17.200 for a nine year old to carry, but now looking back, 0:06:17.520 --> 0:06:20.280 it's immensely appreciated. 0:06:21.120 --> 0:06:21.960 Well, speaking of a. 0:06:21.920 --> 0:06:23.400 Lot for a nine year old to carry, you know, 0:06:23.480 --> 0:06:27.239 we spoke to Alison Arngrim and Karen Grassley, who both 0:06:28.440 --> 0:06:32.839 brought up on their own what an extraordinary presence you 0:06:32.920 --> 0:06:35.640 were as a nine year old. Like Alison Arngrim talks 0:06:35.680 --> 0:06:39.360 about meeting you for the first time, and I think 0:06:39.440 --> 0:06:41.560 described you as being sort of like a firecracker, but 0:06:41.720 --> 0:06:44.920 just how in command of yourself and. 0:06:46.480 --> 0:06:49.000 How I guess in control. 0:06:49.120 --> 0:06:51.880 You were almost like that you were very powerful force 0:06:52.120 --> 0:06:56.640 and really knew exactly what you wanted and what was expected. 0:06:56.760 --> 0:06:58.640 Is that do you remember it like that? 0:07:00.120 --> 0:07:06.120 I knew what my job was and I rejoiced that. 0:07:06.160 --> 0:07:09.520 I rejoiced then doing it. I love that job. I 0:07:09.560 --> 0:07:11.720 still love that job. I love to act. I have 0:07:12.000 --> 0:07:14.720 you know now at this point it had and have 0:07:14.880 --> 0:07:18.280 at least eight other careers. Acting is the one thing 0:07:18.360 --> 0:07:23.280 that doesn't necessarily come the easiest, but fits the best 0:07:24.040 --> 0:07:27.320 and brings me the most satisfaction. And so as a 0:07:27.440 --> 0:07:30.920 kid it was just as as maybe commanding and in 0:07:31.040 --> 0:07:34.080 control as they described me being. I felt like I 0:07:34.200 --> 0:07:37.160 was as full of wonder at the same time. I mean, 0:07:37.320 --> 0:07:40.080 I just everything was a marvel to me. The fact 0:07:40.120 --> 0:07:43.080 that they brought me boots that had buttons and they 0:07:43.080 --> 0:07:44.760 had to teach me how to use a button hook 0:07:45.440 --> 0:07:49.720 to button those high button boots. They were legitimately button boots, 0:07:49.720 --> 0:07:53.480 no hidden zippers, and that to me was like the 0:07:53.520 --> 0:07:57.040 best game of dress up in the world. I mean, 0:07:57.080 --> 0:08:00.440 I there were for real cows and real horror says, 0:08:00.480 --> 0:08:03.600 and real chickens and other kids to play with. And 0:08:04.760 --> 0:08:08.040 we were outside, I think more than they were inside. 0:08:08.080 --> 0:08:11.200 And there were all these great grown ups around who 0:08:11.240 --> 0:08:15.000 were like a bunch of crazy aunts and uncles. And 0:08:15.040 --> 0:08:17.240 there were all these wonderful men on the crew who 0:08:17.400 --> 0:08:20.320 taught me how to ride horses and would throw me 0:08:20.360 --> 0:08:22.280 in the air and catch me. I mean, it was 0:08:22.360 --> 0:08:24.720 heaven for a kid. I even loved going to school 0:08:24.720 --> 0:08:28.520 on the set, you know, I dilly dally. There was 0:08:29.120 --> 0:08:30.880 there was, I mean, it was common knowledge with the 0:08:30.880 --> 0:08:33.440 assistant directors. They'd have to always say, hey, half Pipe 0:08:33.520 --> 0:08:36.680 go to school, because that was like the thing, Halfpipe 0:08:36.679 --> 0:08:38.320 go to school. And it would just trickle down to 0:08:38.400 --> 0:08:41.000 the whole crew where I'd be standing again, and you go, 0:08:41.200 --> 0:08:43.319 h Halfpipe go to school, and it would, you know, 0:08:43.520 --> 0:08:47.040 one by one, I'd walk by everyone. But even that part, 0:08:47.320 --> 0:08:49.640 even the school part, was great. I loved my teacher, 0:08:49.760 --> 0:08:52.600 missus Venir. I loved being in the classroom with Alison 0:08:53.280 --> 0:08:55.240 when she was there. She got to go to regular 0:08:55.320 --> 0:08:57.760 school more than I did, but it was a really 0:08:58.160 --> 0:09:04.840 fun environment. And then being able to work with all 0:09:04.880 --> 0:09:09.800 of those extraordinary actors and crew, the adults, and to 0:09:10.000 --> 0:09:14.760 be considered their peer while we were working was an 0:09:14.840 --> 0:09:19.720 honor actually and very I didn't feel burdened by it ever. 0:09:19.920 --> 0:09:22.959 I felt like it was gifted to me, like this 0:09:23.200 --> 0:09:25.959 was a tremendous responsibility, but they were giving me the 0:09:26.000 --> 0:09:29.079 responsibility because they knew I could do it, and that 0:09:29.240 --> 0:09:32.679 made me feel really good about myself as an actor. 0:09:33.520 --> 0:09:36.760 So he felt very supported on the set always. I 0:09:37.000 --> 0:09:40.559 never felt pushed or forced to do anything I didn't 0:09:40.559 --> 0:09:44.600 want to do. It was a very as kid friendly 0:09:44.679 --> 0:09:46.839 as a set could be. This was the kid friendliest. 0:09:47.360 --> 0:09:50.600 We were contained, but we weren't caged certainly. 0:09:51.760 --> 0:09:51.960 Yeah. 0:09:51.960 --> 0:09:54.080 Allison said that one of the things she remembered about 0:09:54.080 --> 0:09:57.160 Michael was people ask her that he respected her as 0:09:57.240 --> 0:10:00.240 a as a worker, you know, like he respected There 0:10:00.320 --> 0:10:03.559 was a lot of respect that you towards the child actors, 0:10:03.600 --> 0:10:05.920 that that they were getting paid and they were here 0:10:06.000 --> 0:10:09.160 to do a job as opposed to handholding. 0:10:09.200 --> 0:10:10.520 I guess was the sense I got. 0:10:11.760 --> 0:10:14.719 It was the same with anyone as long as we 0:10:14.960 --> 0:10:18.200 did our job, because we were not at We've our 0:10:18.520 --> 0:10:22.800 crew loved blessedly because they've been together so long since 0:10:22.840 --> 0:10:27.280 some since high Chaparral and then Bonanza and then Little House. 0:10:28.720 --> 0:10:31.840 They worked really really fast. There wasn't any time for delays. 0:10:32.160 --> 0:10:34.600 So as long as we were professional adults and children 0:10:34.640 --> 0:10:38.200 alike and knew our lines, our jobs, what we had 0:10:38.240 --> 0:10:41.360 to do, and everything went smoothly, that was great. But 0:10:41.760 --> 0:10:45.520 if someone came in and didn't know or was unprofessional 0:10:45.600 --> 0:10:48.400 in any way, it wouldn't last very long and they'd 0:10:48.440 --> 0:10:49.760 be gone, And it didn't matter if they were a 0:10:49.840 --> 0:10:53.680 kid or an adult. There was just no time for unprofessionalism. 0:10:54.240 --> 0:10:56.040 When you say the crew called you half pint, that 0:10:56.120 --> 0:10:58.400 just sort of stood out to me. Was there because 0:10:58.440 --> 0:10:59.200 you're so young? 0:11:00.160 --> 0:11:03.959 Was there sort of like a bleeding over of your 0:11:04.200 --> 0:11:07.880 character into your sort of idea of yourself and your 0:11:07.960 --> 0:11:11.640 relationship with Michael and the relationship Laura has with Pa. 0:11:11.960 --> 0:11:16.440 Was that it ever sort of confusing or it was. 0:11:16.480 --> 0:11:18.439 Never confusing, It was always really clear. I mean, I 0:11:18.559 --> 0:11:22.120 had my own father who I adored, but my father 0:11:22.160 --> 0:11:26.160 passed away when I was eleven, so two years into 0:11:26.240 --> 0:11:30.160 the series, I was nurturing this relationship on camera with Michael. 0:11:30.160 --> 0:11:34.240 When my father died, and our families were all really close, 0:11:34.360 --> 0:11:36.520 my parents were divorced and my mother was remarried, but 0:11:36.600 --> 0:11:39.200 my mom and my stepdad and Michael and his wife 0:11:39.320 --> 0:11:44.800 Lynn and their kids and and our family, we all 0:11:44.880 --> 0:11:48.240 vacation together. We went to Hawaii on Spring break together. 0:11:48.880 --> 0:11:51.000 We had New Year's Eves together. We slept over each 0:11:51.040 --> 0:11:56.000 other's houses. So our relationship transcended just work. We were tight. 0:11:56.160 --> 0:11:59.520 And Michael, I always looked at him as a father, 0:11:59.760 --> 0:12:04.520 being you and mentor. But never was I confused between 0:12:04.800 --> 0:12:06.520 which one was my daddy and which one was And 0:12:06.600 --> 0:12:09.439 I call him my paw and he is. I mean, 0:12:09.640 --> 0:12:12.679 that's my paw. And my dad is my dad, and 0:12:12.800 --> 0:12:14.719 my birth father is my birth father. So you know 0:12:14.840 --> 0:12:17.360 I'm able to keep straight. I'm adopted, so I have 0:12:17.520 --> 0:12:20.320 all these relationships that I'm very well able to keep straight. 0:12:20.400 --> 0:12:23.480 I know exactly the who. And oddly enough, for all 0:12:23.559 --> 0:12:25.360 of these wonderful men that have come in and out 0:12:25.400 --> 0:12:27.880 of my life, most of them have passed away, they're 0:12:27.960 --> 0:12:32.280 all still sort of there in me and an inspiration 0:12:32.440 --> 0:12:35.720 in so many ways. Michael, especially you. 0:12:35.840 --> 0:12:38.400 Wrote in your book about him directing you and sort 0:12:38.440 --> 0:12:40.480 of getting you into the emotion. There was so much crime, 0:12:40.640 --> 0:12:42.960 There was so much crying on that show, I mean 0:12:43.120 --> 0:12:46.160 from him as much as any as much as anyone else. 0:12:46.800 --> 0:12:49.640 I'm just curious, like looking, I have no sense, but 0:12:49.800 --> 0:12:53.079 like the sort of the sense of maybe emotional. I 0:12:53.120 --> 0:12:55.280 don't know if manipulation is too strong a word, but 0:12:55.400 --> 0:12:58.640 how how he would get you or any other of 0:12:58.720 --> 0:13:01.199 the kid actors sort of into place to access that 0:13:01.320 --> 0:13:03.599 emotion or as a kid, do you have access to 0:13:03.679 --> 0:13:04.360 it more easily? 0:13:04.880 --> 0:13:05.120 For me? 0:13:05.440 --> 0:13:07.079 I mean, I think I've always been a bit of 0:13:07.120 --> 0:13:09.640 an EmPATH, even as a kid, so accessing that kind 0:13:09.679 --> 0:13:13.040 of emotion was never difficult for me. 0:13:13.160 --> 0:13:14.000 But it is. 0:13:14.160 --> 0:13:17.679 I mean, on a week by week basis shooting a 0:13:17.679 --> 0:13:21.160 show like Little House in the Prairie, there's always someone crying, 0:13:21.280 --> 0:13:23.719 crying or running or running and crying at the same time, 0:13:23.760 --> 0:13:25.920 which I seemed to do in every episode, crying and 0:13:25.960 --> 0:13:29.040 running and running and crying. And there were times where 0:13:29.200 --> 0:13:32.559 it was those emotions were hard to tap into, and 0:13:32.760 --> 0:13:35.080 when those times would happen, Michael could kind of sense 0:13:35.120 --> 0:13:38.199 it if he was there. And there were many many 0:13:38.280 --> 0:13:41.400 times where one that comes into mind, especially where I 0:13:41.520 --> 0:13:44.719 was having a hard time and just not quite in it, 0:13:45.480 --> 0:13:48.760 and he kind of cut everything and stopped everything and said, cure, 0:13:48.840 --> 0:13:50.560 take a walk. With me and walk me away from 0:13:50.600 --> 0:13:52.199 the set, and by the time he got about, I 0:13:52.240 --> 0:13:55.040 don't know, twenty feet away, he knelt down in front 0:13:55.040 --> 0:13:56.880 of me and he had tears streaming down his face 0:13:57.280 --> 0:13:58.679 and he looked at me and he said, do you 0:13:58.760 --> 0:14:01.520 have any idea how much I love you? And I 0:14:01.679 --> 0:14:04.360 started crying. He said, okay, you're ready, can we go 0:14:04.440 --> 0:14:05.040 do the scene now? 0:14:05.600 --> 0:14:05.760 Now? 0:14:06.520 --> 0:14:10.400 Yeah, it was definitely manipulative, but was it in a 0:14:10.520 --> 0:14:14.640 bad way? I don't know about that. I think that 0:14:14.920 --> 0:14:17.120 he knew what I needed to get where I needed 0:14:17.200 --> 0:14:19.600 to go to do my job that day, and I 0:14:19.680 --> 0:14:24.200 didn't walk away from it feeling weird or bad or 0:14:25.080 --> 0:14:29.200 in hindsight as a as a highly therapized adult looking 0:14:29.280 --> 0:14:31.040 back on that, I don't think. You know, there were 0:14:31.120 --> 0:14:32.360 things that we did in the Little House that I 0:14:32.440 --> 0:14:34.600 look back on and go, well, that was maybe weird 0:14:34.720 --> 0:14:37.120 or odd or I should not have been put in 0:14:37.200 --> 0:14:39.880 that uncomfortable position, But this was not one of those times. 0:14:40.240 --> 0:14:42.840 This is actually, as an adult, I wish I had 0:14:42.880 --> 0:14:45.080 directors like that around. When I'm, you know, having a 0:14:45.120 --> 0:14:48.000 hard time getting into something, sometimes you knell a little boost. 0:14:49.360 --> 0:14:53.360 Alison talked about feeling that her character allowed her a 0:14:53.440 --> 0:14:57.080 safe space to express anger. And just you talking about 0:14:57.120 --> 0:14:59.080 losing your father when you were eleven, if it was 0:14:59.160 --> 0:15:02.600 a sort of safe space to express complicated grief. 0:15:03.760 --> 0:15:07.000 Oh, one hundred percent. We were not great at grief 0:15:07.040 --> 0:15:10.280 at home. I grew up in a family where those 0:15:10.560 --> 0:15:14.040 sort of feelings, sadness and anger are considered bad, and 0:15:14.200 --> 0:15:20.040 so we don't do that, and so crying is back 0:15:20.120 --> 0:15:22.600 then was considered like a bad thing to do, and 0:15:22.680 --> 0:15:24.320 don't let the kids cry, and they shouldn't cry, and 0:15:24.320 --> 0:15:26.080 they shouldn't so we didn't talk about it. We didn't 0:15:26.120 --> 0:15:29.640 really share feelings, not like we do now, and certainly 0:15:29.680 --> 0:15:32.200 not like I did with my kids. A perfect example 0:15:32.360 --> 0:15:35.480 is when my youngest son's pet mouse died and I 0:15:35.600 --> 0:15:37.720 insisted that we have an actual funeral for the mouse, 0:15:37.760 --> 0:15:40.000 and the kids didn't even want it, but I wanted 0:15:40.040 --> 0:15:42.760 them to have a moment to greet the mouse. I 0:15:43.280 --> 0:15:46.520 compensated for clearly, for stuff that I was missing. But 0:15:46.680 --> 0:15:49.120 I did have that outlet on the set, and that 0:15:49.400 --> 0:15:51.040 was that was a wonderful thing. 0:15:51.280 --> 0:15:51.440 Now. 0:15:52.000 --> 0:15:54.720 The other kind of odd thing was after my father died, 0:15:55.480 --> 0:15:59.080 the family edict of not discussing it carry it through 0:15:59.120 --> 0:16:01.360 to the work. The adults were told not to discuss 0:16:01.400 --> 0:16:04.840 it with me, probably because it would have made it 0:16:05.040 --> 0:16:07.000 hard for me to do my job, which would have 0:16:07.120 --> 0:16:08.920 delayed and cost a lot of You know, this is 0:16:08.960 --> 0:16:13.480 a business, and I don't remember anyone being particularly overly 0:16:13.640 --> 0:16:17.600 solicitous or extra nice or anything. It's just sort of regular. 0:16:17.720 --> 0:16:20.280 But there were a couple extra hugs here and there 0:16:21.000 --> 0:16:24.120 during those months and during that time, and if I 0:16:24.240 --> 0:16:26.400 look back now, I can I remember that growd was 0:16:26.480 --> 0:16:28.840 kind of looking at me and clocking me and making 0:16:28.920 --> 0:16:30.320 sure that I was okay. 0:16:31.480 --> 0:16:34.120 What when you say some of the situations you feel 0:16:34.160 --> 0:16:35.920 like maybe you shouldn't have been put in. I know 0:16:36.040 --> 0:16:40.480 you wrote about Dean Butler being cast, you know, as Almonzo. 0:16:41.680 --> 0:16:44.400 I have to say, in doing the podcast, it made 0:16:44.480 --> 0:16:49.320 me rethink those episodes where you get married, because even 0:16:49.360 --> 0:16:51.960 the character was quite young, and I was young when 0:16:51.960 --> 0:16:54.440 I was watching it, so I thought sixteen was very old, 0:16:54.680 --> 0:16:57.640 but even as a grown up, I'd never actually thought 0:16:58.000 --> 0:16:59.960 it was. In that interview with him, I think I thought, 0:17:00.600 --> 0:17:03.840 you're right, I mean, so young and young for you 0:17:04.160 --> 0:17:06.200 to be put in a position with a grown man. 0:17:07.040 --> 0:17:08.480 What do you think about that now? 0:17:08.760 --> 0:17:11.960 Looking back, Well, I can tell you from the lens 0:17:12.040 --> 0:17:15.119 of today, you can't do that. There's no way they 0:17:15.119 --> 0:17:16.960 could shoot it. There's no way they would cast it 0:17:17.040 --> 0:17:19.480 that way, and there's certainly no way it would be 0:17:19.520 --> 0:17:21.720 handled the way it was handled, not with you know. 0:17:22.359 --> 0:17:24.560 Now we have intimacy coordinators and we have all this 0:17:24.760 --> 0:17:28.400 dialogue around being comfortable and feeling safe, which is amazing. 0:17:29.280 --> 0:17:31.399 Nobody talked to me about it. It was just it 0:17:31.680 --> 0:17:35.119 was nobody said, are you uncomfortable? Are you okay? 0:17:35.480 --> 0:17:36.240 Is this all right? 0:17:37.040 --> 0:17:41.160 It was just I remember being told that the Almonzo 0:17:41.240 --> 0:17:44.200 episodes were coming. Correct pronunciation, by the way, is al 0:17:44.280 --> 0:17:48.000 Manzo anyway? So I remember being told al Manso was coming, 0:17:48.200 --> 0:17:51.239 and my assumption was, you know, because Laura and al 0:17:51.320 --> 0:17:54.560 Manzo were not far apart in age in real life, 0:17:54.840 --> 0:17:58.440 not massively, so my assumption was there'd be someone coming. 0:17:58.520 --> 0:18:00.240 It was close in age to me, maybe one of 0:18:00.280 --> 0:18:04.320 my contemporaries. And then when they told me that it 0:18:04.440 --> 0:18:05.959 was Dean and they showed me a picture and then 0:18:06.000 --> 0:18:09.680 he came to the set, I was taken aback because 0:18:10.119 --> 0:18:12.520 my first thought was that's a man. I mean, I 0:18:12.560 --> 0:18:14.760 can't even tell you what a girl I was. I 0:18:14.840 --> 0:18:17.359 mean I was a gidget. I was a tomboy. I 0:18:17.640 --> 0:18:21.720 was fourteen, fifteen years old, knock kneed, bucktooth, still had 0:18:21.800 --> 0:18:24.360 braces on, wasn't allowed to shave my things. Here comes 0:18:24.400 --> 0:18:27.800 this guy who shaves his face and then drives a car. 0:18:27.920 --> 0:18:29.960 I hadn't been on a date and kissed a boy. 0:18:30.920 --> 0:18:33.159 Fortunately we had a little run up to the actual 0:18:33.480 --> 0:18:35.280 marriage and stuff. But by the time we got to 0:18:35.400 --> 0:18:37.879 the Sweet sixteen episode and the first kiss and all 0:18:37.920 --> 0:18:40.240 of that, it was you know, I knew Dean, and 0:18:40.320 --> 0:18:42.440 I liked Dean, and I got along with Dean, but 0:18:42.680 --> 0:18:45.560 I still felt like I was out of my element, 0:18:46.240 --> 0:18:49.600 to put it mildly, and yet I powered through and 0:18:49.680 --> 0:18:53.720 I did it. But looking back in hindsight, if I 0:18:53.960 --> 0:18:57.560 were producing or directing or the parent, it would have 0:18:57.640 --> 0:19:03.120 been completely different for my kid. Again, it's a reflection 0:19:03.240 --> 0:19:05.720 of the times and where we were. And you know, 0:19:05.800 --> 0:19:09.280 you watch it now and it doesn't look weird even 0:19:09.320 --> 0:19:11.280 to me, And I'm watching it, going, oh god, I 0:19:11.400 --> 0:19:14.680 was so uncomfortable that day, but you know it didn't 0:19:14.680 --> 0:19:18.359 bother me at all. I'm climbing into bed with this 0:19:18.600 --> 0:19:20.440 grown up man and I still hadn't been on a 0:19:20.520 --> 0:19:24.480 date yet and we're having babies, and I did I 0:19:24.600 --> 0:19:26.200 think at that point I had kissed a boy. 0:19:26.920 --> 0:19:28.280 Wow, that's wild. 0:19:28.440 --> 0:19:31.800 I mean I think thinking back to how I watched 0:19:31.800 --> 0:19:33.879 it with it wasn't just that I wasn't questioning it. 0:19:34.000 --> 0:19:36.560 I don't recall anyone questioning it at the time. No, 0:19:36.960 --> 0:19:39.720 or even when I in reruns all through my team, 0:19:39.840 --> 0:19:43.560 like there was no there was no any anyone saying. 0:19:43.520 --> 0:19:45.040 Well, maybe think about this. 0:19:45.160 --> 0:19:47.440 It's almost like Laura went from she hit puberty and 0:19:47.480 --> 0:19:48.280 then she was married. 0:19:48.320 --> 0:19:49.440 There was very little. 0:19:49.960 --> 0:19:52.560 Experience and there was a very little, you know, difference 0:19:52.600 --> 0:19:54.240 between It's almost like they didn't know what to do 0:19:54.359 --> 0:19:55.640 with you once. 0:19:56.000 --> 0:19:58.680 I think that's true. I think that you know, there 0:19:58.720 --> 0:20:00.840 comes a time where you've you got to contribute to 0:20:00.880 --> 0:20:02.760 the family, and the only way to do that at 0:20:02.800 --> 0:20:04.560 that time is to either be a teacher or get 0:20:04.640 --> 0:20:07.960 married or both, because there were no other opportunities for women. 0:20:08.080 --> 0:20:11.600 So that it is a reflection of the actual time. 0:20:12.480 --> 0:20:16.480 But I would defy anyone. I don't care who it is. 0:20:16.520 --> 0:20:19.080 I don't care if it's Tom Hanks or Steven Spielberg 0:20:19.160 --> 0:20:21.080 to go to a studio or a network and say 0:20:21.119 --> 0:20:23.439 we're going to do a show where the fifteen year 0:20:23.480 --> 0:20:25.159