WEBVTT - Surviving Pay Phones Evoke U.S. Past 0:00:01.800 --> 0:00:04.440 This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carol Masser and I'm 0:00:04.480 --> 0:00:07.280 Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stanovik. We're here every day bringing 0:00:07.320 --> 0:00:09.799 you the latest news from the world to business and finance, 0:00:09.840 --> 0:00:13.640 plus technology, politics, economics, all purtnising the power of Business 0:00:13.680 --> 0:00:17.159 Week reporters and editors, not to mention our journalists and 0:00:17.160 --> 0:00:19.640 analyst in more than one and twenty countries. You can 0:00:19.640 --> 0:00:23.239 download Bloomberg Business Week and iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg dot com. 0:00:23.400 --> 0:00:25.200 You can also listen to our radio show at two 0:00:25.200 --> 0:00:28.360 pm Eastern Time on Bloomberg Radio or watch us on YouTube. 0:00:28.400 --> 0:00:33.000 Searched Bloomberg clovel News Well the fast spreading delta variant. 0:00:33.159 --> 0:00:36.280 It's flooded hospitals across the South. It's killed more people 0:00:36.280 --> 0:00:38.800 in Florida and Louisiana than the darkest days of the 0:00:38.840 --> 0:00:42.239 pandemic winter and left so many COVID nineteen patients gasping 0:00:42.240 --> 0:00:46.360 for breath. That's some places face shortages of medical oxygen. 0:00:46.440 --> 0:00:49.320 So right. Jonathan Levin and Michael Smith and their latest 0:00:49.360 --> 0:00:52.080 story for the Bloomberg terminally available at Bloomberg dot com 0:00:52.080 --> 0:00:56.160 as well. Overwhelmed hospitals belae us illusion of a defanged pandemic. 0:00:56.440 --> 0:00:59.639 Drew Armstrong is senior editor for US Healthcare for Bloomberg 0:00:59.680 --> 0:01:01.880 News and joins us Now on the phone from New 0:01:01.960 --> 0:01:06.080 York City. Drew, how did we get here? Well? I 0:01:06.120 --> 0:01:09.400 think we've been in this situation where you have many 0:01:09.440 --> 0:01:14.319 parts of the US vaccinating quite aggressively, but many parts 0:01:14.360 --> 0:01:17.960 that didn't. And you know, when you look at down South, UM, 0:01:18.040 --> 0:01:20.880 a lot of rural areas, those were places that had 0:01:20.920 --> 0:01:25.720 not been hit nearly as hard early on by COVID. 0:01:26.120 --> 0:01:29.080 And then you have this kind of perfect storm combining 0:01:29.360 --> 0:01:33.479 a much much much much more transmissible UM and by 0:01:33.480 --> 0:01:37.320 some reports more dangerous variants of the virus UH, low 0:01:37.440 --> 0:01:42.800 rates of vaccination UH in those places UM, and a 0:01:42.880 --> 0:01:46.640 population that probably didn't have necessarily as much kind of 0:01:46.720 --> 0:01:49.960 previous naturally acquired immunity. Because these are a lot of 0:01:49.960 --> 0:01:52.320 places that so man, these places have been hit by 0:01:52.360 --> 0:01:54.000 quite hard, but there were still a lot of places 0:01:54.000 --> 0:01:56.960 in the country that had not really been slammed uh 0:01:57.240 --> 0:01:59.760 by by COVID. You know, you mix all of that 0:02:00.000 --> 0:02:04.880 together and it's a pretty toxic brew. True. The data 0:02:04.920 --> 0:02:07.400 in the story seems to suggest that even with an 0:02:07.520 --> 0:02:09.800 orderly vaccine rollout, I've reflects. You know, what happened here 0:02:09.840 --> 0:02:12.560 in San Francisco. We started with those over the age 0:02:12.560 --> 0:02:15.440 of seventy, then down to sixty five. But what seems 0:02:15.440 --> 0:02:18.000 to be happening, particularly in the Southern States, is that 0:02:18.080 --> 0:02:20.680 there are sections of those age groups that just didn't 0:02:20.720 --> 0:02:23.760 for some for whatever reason, get vaccinated. And that's where 0:02:23.760 --> 0:02:26.440 the pressure points seems to be in terms of hospitalizations. 0:02:26.480 --> 0:02:29.520 What's going on there. Yeah, you know, you have higher 0:02:29.600 --> 0:02:33.000 levels of vaccine either refusal or reluctant to kind of 0:02:33.040 --> 0:02:36.120 across the board in a lot of these places. And 0:02:36.160 --> 0:02:38.920 the result of that is, you know, you're over seventy 0:02:38.919 --> 0:02:42.679 five populations like vaccinated, or over sixty five populations like vaccinated, 0:02:42.840 --> 0:02:45.679 or over a team population is less vaccinated. So you 0:02:45.800 --> 0:02:50.000 just leave more vulnerable people UM in play there. And obviously, 0:02:50.160 --> 0:02:52.520 especially with some of those older groups or people who 0:02:52.639 --> 0:02:57.639 have pre existing medical conditions you talk about you know, BCD, diabetes, UM, 0:02:57.720 --> 0:03:00.960 those people are really at risk of this virus. I mean, 0:03:01.000 --> 0:03:03.160 if you if you look at how to virus, who 0:03:03.280 --> 0:03:06.680 this virus impact UM. You know, if you're older and 0:03:06.720 --> 0:03:09.840 in ill health or you know just in ill health, UM, 0:03:09.880 --> 0:03:13.600 you're really profoundly at risk most younger, healthier people that 0:03:13.600 --> 0:03:16.399 are exceptions to this obviously, but are far less risk 0:03:16.440 --> 0:03:18.720 of this. It can be, you know, quite nasty and unpleasant, 0:03:18.760 --> 0:03:20.800 but you know, you don't see that as many of 0:03:20.840 --> 0:03:23.359 the charitable health outcomes as you do, um in a 0:03:23.440 --> 0:03:25.560 lot of these older populations, and that just means kind of, 0:03:25.600 --> 0:03:29.000 you know, more more kindling for this thing to burn through. So, Drew, 0:03:29.040 --> 0:03:31.040 how does this? How does this end? Because here we 0:03:31.080 --> 0:03:32.800 are in September. Kids are supposed to be back in 0:03:32.840 --> 0:03:35.960 school many parts of the United States, they're already not 0:03:36.120 --> 0:03:38.560 as a result of being quarantined or the spread of 0:03:38.560 --> 0:03:41.880 the virus among those classrooms. How does this? How does 0:03:41.920 --> 0:03:45.800 this end? Well? You know, I think the way it 0:03:45.880 --> 0:03:50.360 ends is some degree of immunity, either through vaccination or 0:03:50.400 --> 0:03:55.600 through previous infections, and and this pandemic probably burns itself 0:03:55.760 --> 0:03:58.240 mostly out and we move into kind of an endemic 0:03:58.320 --> 0:04:02.000 phase where, um know, we have pockets of infection and 0:04:02.080 --> 0:04:05.080 player ups and kind of a constant low grade COVID 0:04:05.560 --> 0:04:08.400 out there. Um. The one thing I'll say is that 0:04:08.440 --> 0:04:10.560 seemed to be a point of discussion out there amongst 0:04:10.840 --> 0:04:14.040 some groups. You know, the vaccines are kind of a 0:04:14.080 --> 0:04:17.719 shortcut to immunity. Yes, you can get naturally acquired immunity, 0:04:17.760 --> 0:04:19.279 but you have to get sick to get it, and 0:04:19.279 --> 0:04:22.480 that comes with some significant risks. I think as we've seen, 0:04:22.520 --> 0:04:24.680 as we had to you know, more than uh, you know, 0:04:25.279 --> 0:04:28.120 over half a million people dead of this disease in 0:04:28.120 --> 0:04:30.440 in the U s so um. You know, people talk 0:04:30.480 --> 0:04:33.040 a lot about like viruses as wildfires, and they tend 0:04:33.040 --> 0:04:35.719 to go until you know, burnt through all of the 0:04:36.080 --> 0:04:41.440 brush flammable brushes out there. Hey, Drew, we only have 0:04:41.480 --> 0:04:43.960 about thirty seconds left on this. I just want to 0:04:43.960 --> 0:04:46.120 get an idea from you about sort of the next 0:04:46.120 --> 0:04:48.159 catalyst we should be looking forward to see if Delta 0:04:48.320 --> 0:04:51.880 has indeed peaked here in the US. You know, I 0:04:51.920 --> 0:04:55.480 think what I'm personally watching is a lot of state 0:04:55.600 --> 0:04:59.040 and regional maps, um, you know, looking to see trying 0:04:59.080 --> 0:05:01.200 not to think about this as a US outbreak, but 0:05:01.400 --> 0:05:04.279 really thinking about it as a state and local UM 0:05:04.520 --> 0:05:07.880 one and keeping a close eye to seat. Okay, has 0:05:07.920 --> 0:05:12.240 it peeked down south fully? Um? Is it riving or 0:05:12.279 --> 0:05:14.680 is there a ceiling on cases in some of the 0:05:14.680 --> 0:05:17.200 states that have vaccinated more heavily, Would it have not 0:05:17.240 --> 0:05:19.760 been kind of forced indoors because of the heat, and 0:05:19.760 --> 0:05:23.720 then really paying attention to whats with the holidays, holidays, 0:05:23.760 --> 0:05:26.120 already thinking about that and trying to make those plans 0:05:26.160 --> 0:05:28.560 those right around the corner. Drew Armstrong, Senior editor for 0:05:28.680 --> 0:05:32.159 US Healthcare for Bloomberg News, joining us live on the 0:05:32.200 --> 0:05:35.640 phone from New York City. This is Bloomberg Business Week 0:05:35.800 --> 0:05:39.800 with Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stinovic on 0:05:39.920 --> 0:05:44.680 Bloomberg Radio. Well, the pay phone an iconic image of 0:05:44.720 --> 0:05:46.680 the pay phone. Just think about what an image of 0:05:46.680 --> 0:05:49.440 a pay phone, or what a payphone evokes to you. 0:05:49.560 --> 0:05:51.680 For so many years, it was the only way for 0:05:51.960 --> 0:05:55.440 any of us to communicate with one another or actually 0:05:55.680 --> 0:05:59.599 even be reached. But nowadays it's rare, with the advent 0:05:59.640 --> 0:06:01.720 of the smart phone and the cell phone, that they're 0:06:01.720 --> 0:06:05.000 even used. Well. David Dudley, a writer for Bloomberg City 0:06:05.080 --> 0:06:07.720 Lab who joins us now on the phone from Baltimore, 0:06:07.800 --> 0:06:11.760 profiled a photographer who's working to documents surviving pay phones 0:06:11.839 --> 0:06:15.240 that are evoking he lost US network of two million. David, 0:06:15.279 --> 0:06:17.320 it's great to have you on the show. Tell us 0:06:17.320 --> 0:06:21.480 about the photographer's project documenting thousands of these abandoned payphones. 0:06:22.680 --> 0:06:24.960 Thanks for having me, uh so. I spent the day 0:06:25.000 --> 0:06:28.640 with a gentleman named Eric Kunzman, who is a photographer 0:06:29.000 --> 0:06:33.080 and a photography professor in Rochester, New York, and a 0:06:33.120 --> 0:06:35.320 couple of years ago, he became sort of fascinated by 0:06:35.360 --> 0:06:37.919 the fact that it seemed like the neighborhood that he 0:06:37.920 --> 0:06:41.080 had moved to studio to was was full of payphones, 0:06:41.279 --> 0:06:44.040 and he hadn't noticed that in other parts of town. 0:06:44.080 --> 0:06:46.320 This is sort of a lower income part of Rochester. 0:06:47.000 --> 0:06:52.640 And he started um to sort of take images, portraits 0:06:52.720 --> 0:06:55.640 of of the payphones that he saw in the neighborhood, 0:06:55.760 --> 0:07:00.039 usually in front of convenience stores and gas stations. And 0:07:00.520 --> 0:07:02.880 this sort of expanded into this sort of a kind 0:07:02.920 --> 0:07:08.360 of a global quest that he has launched to document 0:07:08.440 --> 0:07:12.280 every single pay phone in Monroe County, New York, uh 0:07:12.280 --> 0:07:14.720 and also any place else basically that he happens to 0:07:14.760 --> 0:07:19.480 see become sort of fabated by what they symbolize. I'm 0:07:19.520 --> 0:07:23.720 a Londoner, right, I think phone box, I think iconic 0:07:23.840 --> 0:07:27.080 red phone box. I think tourism. But it's part of 0:07:27.080 --> 0:07:31.080 this process. What exactly what do you learn about any 0:07:31.120 --> 0:07:33.760 neighborhoods given phone box what does it tell you about 0:07:33.760 --> 0:07:37.160 the economy, about the people in that place. Well, Eric 0:07:37.240 --> 0:07:40.920 sort of theorized that that some of these these phones 0:07:40.960 --> 0:07:44.160 were basically just sort of forgotten. They've been sort of 0:07:44.400 --> 0:07:48.760 installed in the nineties or earlier, and because no one 0:07:48.800 --> 0:07:51.120 had renovated the building that they were attached to, or 0:07:51.160 --> 0:07:53.840 no one had bothered to call the phone company and say, hey, 0:07:53.880 --> 0:07:57.240 could you remove this thing, the machines themselves has sort 0:07:57.240 --> 0:08:00.000 of persisted. So it was sort of like a geograh 0:08:00.080 --> 0:08:02.440 fee of the more sort of economically left behind parts 0:08:02.440 --> 0:08:04.840 of the city. And as part of his project, he 0:08:04.920 --> 0:08:08.600 sort of mapped all the phones across the county and 0:08:09.000 --> 0:08:12.240 overlaid that with with economic data and other information. So 0:08:12.320 --> 0:08:14.440 he became sort of interested sort of what the the 0:08:14.480 --> 0:08:20.160 whole kind of social, kind of geography of telephones meant um, 0:08:20.160 --> 0:08:22.800 which sort of made this more than just sort of 0:08:22.840 --> 0:08:25.800 an esthetic project. It was sort of a social documentary. 0:08:26.000 --> 0:08:28.600 I do find that the the idea that this is 0:08:28.640 --> 0:08:32.160 based in Rochester, New York just fascinating. As you point out, 0:08:32.200 --> 0:08:34.000 it was the home of George and Eastman, the founder 0:08:34.040 --> 0:08:37.240 of Eastman Kodak, and at its nine seventies peak, the 0:08:37.240 --> 0:08:40.640 photography giant employed about fifty thou people and fueled a 0:08:40.760 --> 0:08:44.760 quarter of the city's economic activity. It's absolutely a different 0:08:45.080 --> 0:08:48.200 picture in this day and age, David, And I'm wondering 0:08:49.120 --> 0:08:51.800 the juxtaposition of that and the symbolism there that this 0:08:51.840 --> 0:08:55.520 project is being done on film, first of all, uh, 0:08:55.600 --> 0:08:58.160 in in a place where Eastman Kodak was for so 0:08:58.200 --> 0:09:02.000 long a stalwart of the economy. Yeah. No, I mean 0:09:02.000 --> 0:09:04.160 it's that's sort of part of the conceit here is 0:09:04.200 --> 0:09:08.320 this sort of this convergence of of obsolete technologies, uh, 0:09:08.520 --> 0:09:10.960 that that Eric really still finds value. And he is 0:09:11.000 --> 0:09:15.360 a he is a a film photographer, die Hard. He 0:09:15.400 --> 0:09:19.600 has sort of a shrine to Kodak film in his studio. 0:09:19.720 --> 0:09:22.480 So he's shooting these things on an old half of 0:09:22.520 --> 0:09:27.720 black camera film, using the this this product that is 0:09:27.720 --> 0:09:31.400 so associated with with Rochester and with the wealth that 0:09:31.480 --> 0:09:34.240 sort of built the city, and it's sort of part 0:09:34.240 --> 0:09:36.480 of his his his sort of thesis that there is 0:09:36.559 --> 0:09:40.280 value in things that that that might not be putting 0:09:40.360 --> 0:09:44.040 edge technology anymore, but are still useful and still still 0:09:44.080 --> 0:09:50.800 serve different people encourage you know, yeah, exactly. It's the saying, David, 0:09:50.840 --> 0:09:53.920 I really encouraged Bloomberg radio listeners to go on Bloomberg 0:09:53.960 --> 0:09:55.719 dot com onto the Bloomberg terminal and look at the 0:09:55.760 --> 0:09:59.439 actual photographs themselves. As Tim said, short and film. But 0:09:59.520 --> 0:10:02.200 there's something miss singing from every single photograph. There are 0:10:02.240 --> 0:10:04.840 no people in any of the shots at all. Why 0:10:04.920 --> 0:10:09.320 is that? Yeah, that's sort of on on Eric's park. 0:10:09.400 --> 0:10:11.840 He didn't want you to sort of think about who 0:10:11.960 --> 0:10:14.000 who was using the phone. He wanted you to sort 0:10:14.040 --> 0:10:17.960 of leave that to your imagination because really, you know, 0:10:18.080 --> 0:10:19.680 and those of us who are out in age when 0:10:19.800 --> 0:10:25.319 we uh use payphones more regularly. In the eighties and nineties, um, 0:10:25.440 --> 0:10:28.440 it was a public amenity. Everyone used the payphone, and 0:10:28.520 --> 0:10:31.120 now it's sort of perceived as something as a communication 0:10:31.160 --> 0:10:34.760 device of last resort for people who really have no resources. 0:10:35.120 --> 0:10:37.559 And he really wanted you to think about who who 0:10:37.640 --> 0:10:41.080 might need that phone. And uh so it's this sort 0:10:41.120 --> 0:10:46.200 of gallery of of of unpeopled landscapes where you sort 0:10:46.200 --> 0:10:49.920 of see the phone as part of a kind of 0:10:49.920 --> 0:10:53.640 a streetscape. But yeah, there's no there are no people there. 0:10:53.640 --> 0:10:58.480 They're they're used sometimes. He's got data from from the 0:10:58.559 --> 0:11:01.440 telecom that soprates them, that says that you know, that 0:11:01.600 --> 0:11:03.280 most of these phones are used a couple of times 0:11:03.280 --> 0:11:06.000 a week. Still, Uh, the handful that are still working. 0:11:06.000 --> 0:11:08.199 A lot of them are just sort of corpses. They're 0:11:08.600 --> 0:11:11.720 their handsets are broken or the insides have been removed. 0:11:11.720 --> 0:11:13.760 But some of them still work, and and those that 0:11:13.800 --> 0:11:16.200 do still do find people who need to use them. 0:11:16.320 --> 0:11:19.600 What did the company that oversees these phones, that these 0:11:19.600 --> 0:11:24.559 phones belong to, Frontier tell you about the status of 0:11:24.600 --> 0:11:28.520 the phones. You know, it's it's not really a priority 0:11:28.520 --> 0:11:32.000 of fun your communications right now. This is a telecom 0:11:32.080 --> 0:11:35.520 that is, you know, pivoting to fiber optics and you know, 0:11:35.720 --> 0:11:39.160 cutting edge technologies. But it also happens to have about 0:11:39.520 --> 0:11:44.319 fifteen hundred of these phones scattered around the county. Um, 0:11:44.400 --> 0:11:47.400 you know, a spokes first when told the last reporter 0:11:47.720 --> 0:11:50.400 who did the story on this that they're they're still 0:11:50.400 --> 0:11:53.000 maintaining the ones that are When they get a call 0:11:53.200 --> 0:11:56.760 to fix up a phone, they'll still send someone out. Um, 0:11:56.800 --> 0:12:01.360 it's unlikely it's a major profit center. Let's just it's 0:12:01.400 --> 0:12:05.000 a it's a it's a very very declining business. There 0:12:04.559 --> 0:12:07.320 are less than a hundred thousand payphones across all of 0:12:07.559 --> 0:12:11.440 the United States. Probably a lot less and uh, you know, 0:12:11.600 --> 0:12:15.800 it's it's very much a a part of the telephone 0:12:15.880 --> 0:12:19.400 tunations business that has has really been left in the past. 0:12:21.160 --> 0:12:24.640 David very quickly here, what was your takeaway? I mean, look, 0:12:24.840 --> 0:12:27.000 you you can't see me. I'm holding my cell phone 0:12:27.000 --> 0:12:29.360 in my hand. I'm rarely ever detached from it. I 0:12:29.400 --> 0:12:31.520 can't live without my cell phone. But is you going 0:12:31.520 --> 0:12:34.679 through that experience driving around neighborhoods. How did it make 0:12:34.679 --> 0:12:38.040 you feel? You know, it's it's like a time capsule. 0:12:38.080 --> 0:12:40.920 It's like as you're driving around and I grew up 0:12:40.920 --> 0:12:43.840 near Rochester and I know the area pretty well, and 0:12:44.080 --> 0:12:47.680 you have to kind of pretend that it's like nine nineties, 0:12:48.320 --> 0:12:50.600 and you sort of have to think in those terms, 0:12:50.679 --> 0:12:53.280 and you sort of squinting you and then suddenly you 0:12:53.320 --> 0:12:55.640 can see, oh, there's a payphone attached to that cast stage, 0:12:56.280 --> 0:12:59.679 and uh, it's a it's kind of an interesting experience 0:12:59.760 --> 0:13:05.000 to become aware of this of this this this furniture 0:13:05.040 --> 0:13:08.360 that used to be so omnipresent on our streets and 0:13:08.559 --> 0:13:11.720 it's kind of hiding in playing site and in some places. 0:13:11.800 --> 0:13:17.920 But you know, well, we we've completely forgotten. David Dudley 0:13:17.960 --> 0:13:20.200 is a writer for Bloomberg City Lab. Check out this story. 0:13:20.240 --> 0:13:21.920 As Ed mentioned, you've got to go online and look 0:13:21.920 --> 0:13:23.880 at the peak pictures. David story is featured in These 0:13:23.880 --> 0:13:26.079 Cities issue of Bloomberg Business Week magazine. It's available on 0:13:26.120 --> 0:13:33.840 newstands and at Bloomberg dot com slash business Week. You're 0:13:33.920 --> 0:13:37.800 listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Bloomberg 0:13:37.880 --> 0:13:43.160 Quick Takes Tim Stinovik on Bloomberg Radio. Okay, so Masks 0:13:43.160 --> 0:13:44.719 are back on its city Group and a Bank of 0:13:44.760 --> 0:13:47.560 America workers still have to keep their distance and conference 0:13:47.640 --> 0:13:50.560 rooms at JP Morgan Investment bankers and traders can no 0:13:50.600 --> 0:13:53.520 longer blow off steam at the nearby Monkey Bar. That's 0:13:53.520 --> 0:13:57.200 the Tony restaurant in Midtown Manhattan that closed during the pandemic, 0:13:57.280 --> 0:13:59.720 so writes Jenny Seraine, who says that Wall Street is back, 0:14:00.200 --> 0:14:03.400 just not the way that industry executives had hoped. Jenny 0:14:03.480 --> 0:14:06.640 joins us now in the Bloomberg News Interactive Broker Studio 0:14:06.760 --> 0:14:09.719 in New York. She's finance reporter for Bloomberg News. So 0:14:09.840 --> 0:14:11.599 Jenny this a few months ago. This was supposed to 0:14:11.640 --> 0:14:15.000 be a completely different story. The the the the Tuesday 0:14:15.000 --> 0:14:17.320 after labor day was when things were supposed to be 0:14:17.320 --> 0:14:19.400 back in full swing. Give us an update from what 0:14:19.440 --> 0:14:22.320 the big banks are doing. Yeah, that's exactly right. So 0:14:22.360 --> 0:14:25.440 today it was really supposed to be, um, Wall Streets 0:14:25.480 --> 0:14:27.680 big back to school day and kind of the start 0:14:27.680 --> 0:14:31.040 of Wall Streets new normal, and we just haven't seen 0:14:31.120 --> 0:14:32.840 that really take shape. You know, you've got a lot 0:14:32.880 --> 0:14:36.520 of smaller Wall Street firms actually pushing back their dates saying, 0:14:36.560 --> 0:14:39.240 you know what, we're just going to do this in October, November, 0:14:39.280 --> 0:14:42.120 maybe next year. Um. And then the biggest guys, Yeah, 0:14:42.160 --> 0:14:44.640 they are still very adamant. They want their folks back 0:14:44.640 --> 0:14:49.080 at their desks. Um. They're increasingly having those folks there. Um. 0:14:49.280 --> 0:14:51.840 And really they're just it's just not the way they 0:14:51.880 --> 0:14:55.080 pictured it. The mass, the social distancing, um, all the rest. 0:14:55.120 --> 0:14:57.800 It's just not what they wanted. You guys kind of 0:14:57.800 --> 0:14:59.960 set it out, Jenny, right, there's no one size fits 0:15:00.000 --> 0:15:03.040 all return to office COVID plan. But I guess the 0:15:03.040 --> 0:15:04.600 trend does seem to be the big guys want you 0:15:04.600 --> 0:15:08.480 back at your desk, the smaller firms more cautious approach 0:15:08.600 --> 0:15:10.320 pushing things. You know, well, as fathers pushed back a 0:15:10.320 --> 0:15:12.480 couple of times but why is that? I mean, is 0:15:12.520 --> 0:15:16.320 it just the spending that was required on protection mechanisms, 0:15:16.360 --> 0:15:20.200 it's just psychology, you know, what's behind that difference. Yeah, 0:15:20.240 --> 0:15:23.040 it's a really good question. I think for each firm 0:15:23.040 --> 0:15:25.120 it might be different. So I think some firms are 0:15:25.200 --> 0:15:28.040 using this as an opportunity to recruit away from the 0:15:28.040 --> 0:15:30.920 big firms and saying, you know, people want flexibility, We're 0:15:30.920 --> 0:15:33.760 willing to give you that. UM. In some cases it's 0:15:33.800 --> 0:15:36.680 more about UM. You know, some of these bigger banks 0:15:36.680 --> 0:15:40.520 have staff in places like Texas or Florida, Georgia, places 0:15:40.520 --> 0:15:43.120 where vaccination rates are way lower than than here in 0:15:43.160 --> 0:15:45.840 New York, and so that's kind of complicating how quickly 0:15:45.960 --> 0:15:48.880 you're or how many people they can bring back. UM. 0:15:48.880 --> 0:15:51.040 So I think lots of things can be driving it. UM. 0:15:51.320 --> 0:15:53.880 Definitely spending on making the office is safer. It's a 0:15:53.880 --> 0:15:56.360 big expense. UM. And if you see a lot of 0:15:56.360 --> 0:15:58.960 your employees really are really hesitant to be back, you 0:15:59.040 --> 0:16:02.360 just you might say, know what will wait? You kind 0:16:02.360 --> 0:16:04.760 of mention in your story about out West this way 0:16:04.800 --> 0:16:07.960 there's this play by the tech companies, right, they keep 0:16:08.000 --> 0:16:12.280 pushing back, they give more flexibility, particularly in the engineering department, 0:16:12.320 --> 0:16:14.960 and you mentioned the story that there's some crossover there right, 0:16:15.000 --> 0:16:18.480 There's there's a flow of talent from Wall Street into 0:16:18.520 --> 0:16:21.680 big tech and vice versa sometimes. But the point is 0:16:21.680 --> 0:16:24.080 you have to give the people what they want. What's 0:16:24.120 --> 0:16:27.440 going on with this just indefinite delay from ever going 0:16:27.480 --> 0:16:30.200 back to the office. Yeah. I think engineers on Wall 0:16:30.240 --> 0:16:33.000 Street are are very special breed. They seem to be 0:16:33.080 --> 0:16:36.160 the only ones that are getting this uh special dispensation 0:16:36.240 --> 0:16:39.120 from c e o s who are really aggressively bringing 0:16:39.120 --> 0:16:41.520 a lot of their workers back. But they're very hesitant 0:16:41.520 --> 0:16:45.040 to do anything that will upset the developers and engineers 0:16:45.040 --> 0:16:47.080 and everyone that that kind of keep the technology of 0:16:47.120 --> 0:16:49.960 Wall Street going. And that's because, you know, competition for 0:16:50.040 --> 0:16:53.119 that talent right now is at levels that these executives 0:16:53.160 --> 0:16:55.800 haven't ever seen, and they are very aware that places 0:16:55.800 --> 0:16:58.200 like Google and Facebook are are rolling out the red 0:16:58.280 --> 0:17:00.480 carpet for these folks and really trying to keep those 0:17:00.480 --> 0:17:02.880 folks happy and keep them in their jobs. I wonder 0:17:02.920 --> 0:17:05.359 about that in the in the other ranks of employees too, 0:17:05.400 --> 0:17:07.480 because it's not just that these banks are competing with 0:17:07.520 --> 0:17:10.120 the other banks for talent, they're also competing with tech 0:17:10.160 --> 0:17:13.200 companies that perhaps have different types of work from home 0:17:13.280 --> 0:17:16.399 policies and more relaxed policies. And I wonder what you're here, 0:17:16.440 --> 0:17:19.160 wondering what you're hearing from your sources, Jenny, about whether 0:17:19.240 --> 0:17:21.480 or not banks are starting to think differently about being 0:17:21.480 --> 0:17:23.960 more lenient with this stuff because from a competitive perspective, 0:17:24.000 --> 0:17:28.200 they may have to. Yeah, I think so. So many 0:17:28.200 --> 0:17:30.879 of these CEOs are It's like a ceo thing, like, 0:17:31.080 --> 0:17:33.679 so many of these CEOs just feel strongly that culture 0:17:33.800 --> 0:17:36.400 is built in the office and that younger employees especially 0:17:36.440 --> 0:17:38.800 need training and and they want to see folks in 0:17:38.840 --> 0:17:41.160 their seats every day. And so I think you've got 0:17:41.160 --> 0:17:43.439 a little bit of what do the people want versus 0:17:43.480 --> 0:17:45.680 what does the person um, the person at the top 0:17:45.720 --> 0:17:49.000 of the house want um. And that's a really hard balance, 0:17:49.000 --> 0:17:50.760 and I think you're seeing it play out at all 0:17:50.800 --> 0:17:54.520 these different firms in slightly different ways. Um, But ultimately, 0:17:54.640 --> 0:17:56.199 I do think in a lot of cases, what the 0:17:56.240 --> 0:18:00.199 CEO wants is ultimately going to win out, irrespective of 0:18:00.240 --> 0:18:03.000 where they're working, Jenny, how are they working? You know, 0:18:03.119 --> 0:18:06.040 is it it's been a purple patch for for these firms, 0:18:06.119 --> 0:18:08.720 or is part of the sort of impetus to go 0:18:08.800 --> 0:18:11.200 back to your face that they need to do better, 0:18:11.240 --> 0:18:14.000 you know, to get some energy going amongst the workforce. Yeah. 0:18:14.080 --> 0:18:17.199 You know what's interesting about the trading floor specifically is 0:18:17.280 --> 0:18:20.520 we keep hearing from traders that on slow trading days, 0:18:20.920 --> 0:18:22.960 it's really helpful to have folks in the office. You've 0:18:23.000 --> 0:18:26.000 got that water cooler chat, you come up with random ideas, 0:18:26.040 --> 0:18:28.480 you go out, you pitch it to clients. UM. That's 0:18:28.480 --> 0:18:32.119 sort of like organic UM conversation is really hard to 0:18:32.160 --> 0:18:34.480 pull off on Zoom and in virtual meetings and things 0:18:34.520 --> 0:18:37.040 like that. So certainly for the traders, I think that 0:18:37.200 --> 0:18:38.639 you see a lot of those folks are kind of 0:18:38.640 --> 0:18:41.240 eager to get back at least part of the time, UM, 0:18:41.280 --> 0:18:43.280 and that they think it will really help the results. 0:18:43.600 --> 0:18:45.440 I mean, for the rest of the bank, they're they're 0:18:45.480 --> 0:18:48.560 at record profits and UM, it's kind of hard to 0:18:48.560 --> 0:18:51.840 say that they're they're doing poorly in this remote work time. UM. 0:18:51.840 --> 0:18:53.879 But certainly for the traders, you do see them starting 0:18:53.920 --> 0:18:55.800 to get a little auntie, especially as we've had a 0:18:55.800 --> 0:18:57.880 few of these like summer dold drums these past couple 0:18:57.920 --> 0:19:00.560 of weeks. Yeah, well, the summer summer season certainly over 0:19:00.600 --> 0:19:03.200 now I mean officially over. We are the first Tuesday 0:19:03.280 --> 0:19:05.680 after Labor Day, so this is the time when fall 0:19:05.720 --> 0:19:10.160 officially kicks off. Jenny, I'm I'm wondering really about how 0:19:10.160 --> 0:19:13.159 the timeline has changed now that this goal and I 0:19:13.160 --> 0:19:14.919 know the goalpost move. I understand that this is an 0:19:14.960 --> 0:19:17.680 involving situation, but what are the banks saying about, Okay, 0:19:17.680 --> 0:19:19.520 we are back to normal. You know on this date, 0:19:20.440 --> 0:19:23.439 there's not really one new universal date like there was 0:19:23.440 --> 0:19:25.720 with this UM. So it's I think we're going to 0:19:25.800 --> 0:19:28.439 see it really be low and slow. Um. The biggest 0:19:28.520 --> 0:19:31.200 US banks have brought a lot of their folks back 0:19:31.280 --> 0:19:33.679 or are planning to do so this month. UM. So 0:19:33.720 --> 0:19:36.000 you're definitely seeing that push, But I think for a 0:19:36.040 --> 0:19:38.640 lot of these smaller firms they're just hesitant and they're 0:19:38.720 --> 0:19:42.000 they're playing it by ear um. You know, especially with 0:19:42.040 --> 0:19:44.479 schools and that situation being as uneven as it is, 0:19:44.600 --> 0:19:46.320 that also makes it really hard for you to kind 0:19:46.359 --> 0:19:47.840 of say, all right, we have to be back in 0:19:48.840 --> 0:19:51.200 especially you know, with with folks with kids under twelve 0:19:51.200 --> 0:19:54.160 who's kids can't even be vaccinated. That just makes everything 0:19:54.200 --> 0:19:56.680 so much harder and just not the moment in time 0:19:56.680 --> 0:19:59.240 that Wall Street thought it was going to be Jenny 0:19:59.320 --> 0:20:01.840 very quickly, what's the next big name to watch for? 0:20:02.119 --> 0:20:06.000 Which bank moves next, which trading floor moves next to 0:20:06.000 --> 0:20:10.120 bring their their teams back. I actually think the banks, 0:20:10.400 --> 0:20:12.200 the two banks to watch would be City Group and 0:20:12.240 --> 0:20:14.280 Bank of America. So they're planning to bring back more 0:20:14.280 --> 0:20:16.119 and more of their folks this month, So it'll be 0:20:16.160 --> 0:20:17.879 kind of interesting to see how that plays out and 0:20:18.119 --> 0:20:21.000 kind of how their employees react. Here. All right, Jenny Seraine, 0:20:21.040 --> 0:20:22.440 we are going to have to leave it. Their finance 0:20:22.480 --> 0:20:24.920 reporter for Bloomberg News. She joins us in the Bloomberg 0:20:24.960 --> 0:20:28.600 Interactive Brokers studio in New York. Check out Jenny's story. 0:20:29.119 --> 0:20:31.480 It's available at the Bloomberg terminal and of course at 0:20:31.520 --> 0:20:34.280 Bloomberg dot Com. It's called Wall Street Limps into Post 0:20:34.359 --> 0:20:38.440 Labor Day Return Derailed by Delta ed. As Jenny said, 0:20:38.440 --> 0:20:41.080 this was supposed to be Wall Streets Back to School Day, 0:20:41.119 --> 0:20:44.760 it's not necessarily turning out to be. Yeah, it's all 0:20:44.800 --> 0:20:48.480 about the psychology home in you, in your shut upstairs, 0:20:48.480 --> 0:20:51.879