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Speaker 1: This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the

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Speaker 1: Thing from iHeart Radio. It was quite a groundbreaking concept

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Speaker 1: back in nineteen seventy five. Celebrity impersonations, satirical news segments,

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Speaker 1: musical performances, and sharp sketches by the not ready for

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Speaker 1: primetime players, all of it live and late at nights.

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Speaker 1: No television show has made its mark on comedy, pop culture,

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Speaker 1: and politics more than Saturday Night Live, and for generations,

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Speaker 1: the show continues to be as culturally relevant as it

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Speaker 1: was on its premiere five decades ago. Later on, I'll

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Speaker 1: speak with SNL writer and producer Steve Higgins ahead of

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Speaker 1: the show's historic fiftieth season. But first I'm talking with

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Speaker 1: Susan Morrison. She's the article's editor at The New Yorker

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Speaker 1: and author of the new book Lorne The Man who

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Speaker 1: invented Saturday Night Live. Before The New Yorker, Morrison was

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Speaker 1: the editor in chief of The New York Observer, the

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Speaker 1: features editor at Vogue, and one of the founders of

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Speaker 1: Spy Magazine. But her first job was a writer's assistant

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Speaker 1: for Laurene Michael's series The New Show. There she met

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Speaker 1: writer and new Yorker legend. Lillian Ross Morrison would eventually

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Speaker 1: continue on an editing career path, but she recalls an

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Speaker 1: early passion for writing and journalism.

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Speaker 2: My English teacher kind of turned the lights on. And

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Speaker 2: my high school friend Adam Liptak, who now covers the

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Speaker 2: Supreme Court for The Times, and his intellectual family of

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Speaker 2: Hungarian emigres, they really they just you know, they gave

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Speaker 2: him my first espresso.

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Speaker 3: And got me reading the Village Voice, you know, the

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Speaker 3: whole thing.

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Speaker 4: But when you're there, this ignites this writing passion definitely.

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Speaker 2: Well, you know, I never was one of those editors

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Speaker 2: who secretly had a hankering to write.

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Speaker 3: I loved my editor job.

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Speaker 2: But ten years ago I had this preposterous notion my

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Speaker 2: kids had gone to college. I was suddenly an empty nester,

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Speaker 2: and I thought, I guess I'm gonna have a lot

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Speaker 2: of free time, you know, which didn't turn out to

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Speaker 2: be true, of course, and just sort of jumped into

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Speaker 2: this book project. It had just been the SNL fortieth anniversary,

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Speaker 2: and I realized that I had a lot of thoughts

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Speaker 2: and a lot of perspective on the show and Lauren

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Speaker 2: and just decided to do this and I'll tell you

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Speaker 2: it was hard because a lot of biography is really

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Speaker 2: not an easy one to start with. It's kind of

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Speaker 2: like writing an encyclopedia. It's so many facts, really right,

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Speaker 2: you to really take the measure of a person like that,

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Speaker 2: And you know, and I did it while keeping my

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Speaker 2: not on demanding day job as an editor at The

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Speaker 2: New Yorker. So and there were many times during these

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Speaker 2: years when I thought I was out of my mind.

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Speaker 2: But I'm so happy with it now. I'm so happy

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Speaker 2: that I did it.

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Speaker 1: How much of Lillian Ross's profile piece Laurenne informed her

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Speaker 1: biography of him was did a foundation for well.

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Speaker 2: Lillian was a close friend of mine and I was

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Speaker 2: her editor for twenty years, and we would talk about

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Speaker 2: Lauren because I worked for him briefly in nineteen eighty three.

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Speaker 2: But you know, when Lillian died and I'm her literary executor,

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Speaker 2: so I'm in charge of all of her papers, I

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Speaker 2: kind of have expected to find MASSI file cabinets full

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Speaker 2: of notes about Lauren, but I didn't. But we talked

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Speaker 2: about Lauren. She did not ever write her profile for

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Speaker 2: The New Yorker because of Sean's firing, but what she

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Speaker 2: did do because she I think she felt she owed

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Speaker 2: it to Lauren to do something. She wrote a fairly

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Speaker 2: short piece that ran an interview magazine. You know, it

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Speaker 2: had some interesting bits in it, it didn't have a

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Speaker 2: lot of groundbreaking stuff. And Lauren always told me that

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Speaker 2: when Lillian was talking with him working on the profile,

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Speaker 2: she was chiefly fascinated with She loved to talk about

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Speaker 2: his mother, who she met, Florence Slippowitz, who I never

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Speaker 2: had a chance to meet, and the scene around her,

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Speaker 2: her kitchen table. I guess Florence was a kind of

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Speaker 2: a cantankerous woman, but I don't think it was that

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Speaker 2: easy to be her son. She I think he was

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Speaker 2: sparing with the compliments in Lauren's presence, but if he

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Speaker 2: wasn't around, she'd be bragging about him. But I think

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Speaker 2: she was the kind of person that people in the

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Speaker 2: neighborhood came to.

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Speaker 1: And you're not around, I've seen your paces. When you're

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Speaker 1: in front of me, I'm so diffident you're you're crying.

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Speaker 2: But that was she was really interested in all of that.

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Speaker 2: He used to say, that's all she would talk to

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Speaker 2: me about is my mother's table. So there was a

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Speaker 2: little bit of that in that profile. But in any case,

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Speaker 2: it's not as if I got any kind of tranch

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Speaker 2: of material from Lilian, but you know, it was certainly

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Speaker 2: something that we had in common. And I think that

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Speaker 2: when I showed up in Lauren's office ten years ago

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Speaker 2: and said, I've just signed a contract to write a

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Speaker 2: book about you, I don't need anything from you. You know,

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Speaker 2: you know, I know your world and your people, but

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Speaker 2: if you'd like to let me interview you and give

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Speaker 2: me access to the you know, I think it'll be

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Speaker 2: a better book and they'll be more accurate and richer.

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Speaker 2: And after kind of sitting down and taking a couple

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Speaker 2: of gulps, he agreed because he knew me a little bit,

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Speaker 2: and I think that he did feel as sort of

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Speaker 2: an ongoing threat. You know, I'm sort of picking up

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Speaker 2: where Lillian left off, and there's something nice about that.

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Speaker 2: And as you know, lineage and connections and history, these

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Speaker 2: things interest learned.

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Speaker 3: They mean something to him.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he's no, he's when you talk to me about

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Speaker 1: when you have when you have his attention, I mean,

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Speaker 1: his mind is always. I mean I'm not saying the

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Speaker 1: show runs on autopilot. It gets his full attention, but

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Speaker 1: he's very good at it, and he can do it

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Speaker 1: queen rather defintely, but he's so wide raging in his appetite.

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Speaker 1: How did you get into SNL when you were sixteen

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Speaker 1: years old?

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Speaker 3: I know that was against the rules, wasn't it.

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Speaker 4: Yes?

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Speaker 2: Yes, So I lived in Stanford, Connecticut. One of my

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Speaker 2: best friends, Robin Guerrino. She was cool, and she had

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Speaker 2: an aunt who was a secretary at NBC. We had

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Speaker 2: watched some of the early shows. You know, when you're sixteen,

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Speaker 2: that's what you did. You would stay home and watch

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Speaker 2: SNL and get out your bong. Right, So robins Anne

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Speaker 2: got us four tickets and we grabbed a couple of

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Speaker 2: guys that we thought were cute from our high school

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Speaker 2: and took the train.

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Speaker 4: In security was rather lax back than in the seventies. Was.

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Speaker 2: We sat right there, right next to home base, and

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Speaker 2: it was completely thrilling. I am sure a lot of

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Speaker 2: the references in the show went right over my head,

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Speaker 2: but just the deconstructed aspect of it, sitting in the

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Speaker 2: middle of a working television studio with all of this

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Speaker 2: stuff happening around me, that's what made the biggest impression

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Speaker 2: on me. Found it enormously exciting and also then later

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Speaker 2: when I was telling Lauren about this, he didn't know

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Speaker 2: that I was there when I was sixteen. But that

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Speaker 2: particular show I think was close to his heart because

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Speaker 2: it was a Ellie Gould hosted that show. It was

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Speaker 2: one of the classics of the first season where the

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Speaker 2: great Michael O'donah Hugh star Trek sketch was on that

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Speaker 2: show where Gould plays an NBC executive walking onto the

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Speaker 2: Starship Enterprise telling them that the show is canceled, and

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Speaker 2: you know, Captain Kirk played by John Belushi just treats

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Speaker 2: him like some alien life form, and it's a brilliant

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Speaker 2: breaking the fourth wall. It was brilliant, and Leon Redbone

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Speaker 2: was the musical guest.

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Speaker 1: In a way, it's easy to talk about Lauren, but

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Speaker 1: impossible to talk about You can suggest things, you can

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Speaker 1: make observations about him, but to analyze him and make

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Speaker 1: any conclusions about him as the most impossible. He has

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Speaker 1: a small cadre, a very small cadre. Everything is always

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Speaker 1: the richest and the most full and the most warm

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Speaker 1: in your heart has a special pleasure that's in the

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Speaker 1: early days. So everybody that accompanies him from the early

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Speaker 1: day Steve Martin, Paul Simon McCartney, all these legends of

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Speaker 1: music and comedy and so forth. What I realized was,

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Speaker 1: you're never really a part of that group unless you're

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Speaker 1: in the cast. I hosted seven teen times. I used

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Speaker 1: to joke and say, God, I'd love to be a

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Speaker 1: member of the cast. Then I became one for four years.

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Speaker 1: I did the trump thing overwhelmingly for two years, and

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Speaker 1: a bit less in the third and fourth year. But

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Speaker 1: I never have the same connection with those people that

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Speaker 1: the ones who are in the cast. The bond between them,

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Speaker 1: the bomb between those people on that show is one

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Speaker 1: of the most profound things I've ever seen in this business.

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Speaker 2: Well, it is interesting so many of them, when they're

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Speaker 2: talking about the experience of being in the cast, they

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Speaker 2: use they use military metaphors. They say it's like being

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Speaker 2: in the Marine Corps, or it's like jumping out of

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Speaker 2: an airplane holding hands all together. It's this kind of

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Speaker 2: peak experience. And I think that it's a combination of

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Speaker 2: the cutthroat competitive nature of the show. And I don't

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Speaker 2: mean that in a negative way. The point is, as

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Speaker 2: you know, because you've done read through, they're four hours

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Speaker 2: worth of material generated at least every week, but only

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Speaker 2: you know, sixty some minutes of it with commercials are

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Speaker 2: going to make it by Saturday, so inevita. Things are cut.

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Speaker 2: People's hopes are dashed, you know, people don't get on

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Speaker 2: the air or some But there's that, and then also

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Speaker 2: the adrenaline of it being live. I think a lot

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Speaker 2: of viewers don't have any idea what that actually means,

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Speaker 2: because there isn't anything like it that's live on television.

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Speaker 3: The only other thing is sports.

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Speaker 2: The way if every viewer at home could sit in

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Speaker 2: studio eight h once and get that experience of having

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Speaker 2: the cranes flying over your head and seeing the scenery

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Speaker 2: hauled in and out and the cue cards rewritten, the

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Speaker 2: experience of not knowing until eleven fifteen whether you're in

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Speaker 2: the show or not. I think those are enormously bonding experiences.

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Speaker 1: One time, we were doing thirty Rock and Zucker was

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Speaker 1: the head of NBC at the time, and he came

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Speaker 1: out to the studio at Silver Cup and Queens. He

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Speaker 1: turned to a small group of people and he said,

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Speaker 1: this is the most expensive half hour of television I

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Speaker 1: have on my network. And you look at SNL and

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Speaker 1: you're thinking of what does this cost? Yeah, the show

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Speaker 1: costs an enormous amount of my per week. And what

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Speaker 1: I always say is I always suggest that mourn among

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Speaker 1: his you know, thrilling gifts and so forth, is that

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Speaker 1: he makes each owner of the company coming and go

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Speaker 1: and says to them, go ahead and replace me and

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Speaker 1: see what happens.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but anything you're.

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Speaker 1: Going to bring in is bound to lose money. How

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Speaker 1: many people have tried to take down Laurn? How many

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Speaker 1: people have said I'm going to cancel that, I'm going

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Speaker 1: to be the one that finally euthanizes SNL.

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Speaker 4: Nobody's taken down Lauren and he makes money.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: He often talks about the show is it's sort of

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Speaker 2: like a David Lean epic on television, just in terms

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Speaker 2: of the vastness and the production values. And I think

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Speaker 2: there have been times. I mean, in the book, I

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Speaker 2: talk about how in the nineties when there was a

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Speaker 2: much more activist kind of management, in particular Don Olmeyer

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Speaker 2: in la Really, you know, they were feeling successful because

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Speaker 2: of Steinfeld and some other things, and they just said, Okay,

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Speaker 2: we're just going to go into SNL and fix it.

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Speaker 2: And they you know, they made him fire Chris Farley.

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Speaker 2: They made him fire out of Sandler, they made him

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Speaker 2: fire Jim Downey, and then they went for him. Warren

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Speaker 2: Littlefield said things in the press suggesting that, you know,

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Speaker 2: even Lauren Michael's job wasn't safe, and they really tried to,

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Speaker 2: you know, get under the hood and meddle with it.

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Speaker 2: And again part of Lauren's genius, you know, people Conan

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Speaker 2: O'Brien says, you know that after a nuclear apocalypse, you know,

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Speaker 2: it's just going to be a lot of cockroaches walking around,

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Speaker 2: but Lauren will be in his office for being the

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Speaker 2: fish casting the cockroaches is the next cast. Ideas, it's

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Speaker 2: always a long game with him. He's he knows how

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Speaker 2: to just kind of keep his head down and sail

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Speaker 2: through it all.

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Speaker 1: You know. He turned eighty this year. This is the

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Speaker 1: fiftieth anniversary of the show. Obviously, people have been talking

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Speaker 1: about it quite regularly for the last year or so.

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Speaker 1: When I came and did the show for the first

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Speaker 1: time in nineteen ninety, I think it was I did

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Speaker 1: the show the first time and that was obviously their

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Speaker 1: fifteenth or sixteenth season, And to think I was doing

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Speaker 1: that show and thinking, who on earth would have thought

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Speaker 1: this thing would go fifty years.

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Speaker 2: Well, Dana Carvey told me a funny story. You know,

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Speaker 2: he came in in I guess it was maybe eighty six.

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Speaker 2: You know, Lauren took a hiatus of five years after

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Speaker 2: the first five years, and then he came back and

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Speaker 2: he had a terrible first season back nineteen eighty five

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Speaker 2: when he had hired all these young actors from John

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Speaker 2: Hughes movies, Anthony Michael Hall, Robert Downey Junior. Very good people,

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Speaker 2: but just people who didn't really cohere as an SNL cast.

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Speaker 2: So the next cast, which really jelled it was Dana

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Speaker 2: Carvey and Kevin Neilaan and John Hooks. But Carvey said

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Speaker 2: that he came in and he thought, God, I'm going

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Speaker 2: to be in the last cast. This is going to

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Speaker 2: be the last gen. This thing is going down the tubes,

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Speaker 2: and nobody had any idea that it would just go

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Speaker 2: on like that. And anyway, you talked about your first

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Speaker 2: hosting gig, and I remember Lauren telling me, you know,

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Speaker 2: when he would see Carvey, I mean, Carvey just really

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Speaker 2: blew everyone away. He would just watch him doing his

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Speaker 2: George Bush or his George Michael Church lady and he

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Speaker 2: would just say he's a fucking show pony. And apparently

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Speaker 2: the next person that he would say that about was you.

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Speaker 4: Oh my god.

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Speaker 3: And I remember him.

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Speaker 2: Saying watching you do the Canteen Voice with Adam Sandler

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Speaker 2: and where you're a Scout leader and kind.

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Speaker 4: Of like, I'm very aggressive groves on this.

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Speaker 2: Poor boy, and we're just going marveling from under the bleachers.

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Speaker 3: Alec will do anything.

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Speaker 4: I've heard that, and that was me. I said, I'm

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Speaker 4: going to just be like them.

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Speaker 1: I'll do anything silly, put the pie in my face,

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Speaker 1: pull my pants down, I don't care. I remember once

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Speaker 1: I decided to do that, they just kept asking me

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Speaker 1: to come back. And just because they asked, it doesn't

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Speaker 1: mean you need to go. And I said, I never

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Speaker 1: had more fun in my life making films. Says I

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Speaker 1: always tell people can be challenging, but it's rarely fun.

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Speaker 4: It's rarely fun.

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Speaker 2: Well, what you've described it's been, it was really fun.

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Speaker 2: Kind of picking up all the SNL LINGO. I mean,

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Speaker 2: I should have just put a glossary on the back

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Speaker 2: of the book. But what you're describing just coming and being,

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Speaker 2: you know, doing your job and sketches. They call that

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Speaker 2: playing parts, and they love it when a host will

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Speaker 2: come in and be good in service parts, in sketches.

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Speaker 2: The hardest thing for that writing staff, and the writing

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Speaker 2: staff in Lauren's mind, is in some way really the

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Speaker 2: heart of the show. The hardest thing for the writing

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Speaker 2: staff and for the performers is when a host comes

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Speaker 2: in and just wants to be the funny guy in

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Speaker 2: every sketch. They feel that that kind of tanks the show,

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Speaker 2: tanks the cast.

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Speaker 1: I came to New York in nineteen seventy nine to

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Speaker 1: finish school. I'd gone three years full time somewhere else

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Speaker 1: to GW but I came to NYU to finish and

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Speaker 1: get a degree in theater. You know, you had Bill

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Speaker 1: Hurt and Sir Gurney and Raoul Julia and Glenn Close

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Speaker 1: and of course Marilyn Cazal. If you didn't make your

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Speaker 1: bones in the theater in some way, you were somewhat illegitimate.

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Speaker 2: Right And I think that Steve Martin sometimes says, you know,

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Speaker 2: in New York, you get successful. In Hollywood, you get hot,

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Speaker 2: you know, a different thing. But I you know, Lauren

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Speaker 2: is kind of a theater kid nerd. You know, he

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Speaker 2: grew up going to the theater, putting on plays in

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Speaker 2: his camp, and he always likes to say that he

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Speaker 2: is one foot in the theater. And I think it's

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Speaker 2: really interesting how many of the S and L people

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Speaker 2: are the same. I'm sure plenty of them are movie buffs,

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Speaker 2: but there are also people who want to sing the

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Speaker 2: score to Oliver, you know. And you see this in

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Speaker 2: like whenever John Mullaney hosts Now, there is always a

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Speaker 2: really elaborate production number that is kind of a send

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Speaker 2: up of some Broadway musical like Diner Lobster. And they're

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Speaker 2: all really comfortable in that milieu, you know, the black body.

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Speaker 4: It's in their blood.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: One thing I love about Lauren is that, you know,

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Speaker 1: we've known people who are honored, who are feted, and

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Speaker 1: who are exalted in this business, who seem all too

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Speaker 1: ready to accept those honors. There's a little slight swift

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Speaker 1: to them. A lot of the comedy people. I find

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Speaker 1: it interesting because they're the more insecure group, the comedy star.

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Speaker 1: But Lauren, in my mind, times it out beautifully. He

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Speaker 1: waits till the very last six seven, eight years to

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Speaker 1: take a bow. He was not prone to take a bow.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I was one of the people that helped

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Speaker 1: to facilitate his getting the Kennedy Center Honor. Lauren waited

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Speaker 1: to accept those awards when it was like you just

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Speaker 1: couldn't stop it anymore. There was just this avalanche of

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Speaker 1: laudatory feelings toward him.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think for one thing, the big fortith anniversary

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Speaker 2: show ten years ago, which was a sensational show and

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Speaker 2: an emotional time for a lot of people, really had

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Speaker 2: an effect on him. And I think it was Bill

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Speaker 2: Murray who said to me, you know, yeah, we were

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Speaker 2: all there, but it was impossible for us not to

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Speaker 2: all realize that we probably won't all be there for

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Speaker 2: the fiftieth. I mean time March is on. And I

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Speaker 2: think he's also acutely aware of that, you know he

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Speaker 2: Aside from the show, one of Lauren's huge achievements was

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Speaker 2: in creating this culture, creating a world, a big sandbox

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Speaker 2: that everybody can play and people cross from different generations

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Speaker 2: act in each other's shows, and they all know each

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Speaker 2: other and they're part of a big family. And I

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Speaker 2: think he's starting to realize that, you know, anything that

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Speaker 2: will bring the tribe together is a good thing, and

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Speaker 2: that was it was very moving at the Kennedy Center

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Speaker 2: to see all those people together. There is something about

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Speaker 2: getting a Lifetime Achievement award that for a lot of

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Speaker 2: people makes them worry that that means they're getting shuffled

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Speaker 2: off the stage. You know, there's a sort of a

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Speaker 2: down heel from here exactly. But I also think that,

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Speaker 2: you know, Lauren is smart enough to know that a

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Speaker 2: lot of galas that want to honor you, you know,

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Speaker 2: they just want to sell a lot of tables just

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Speaker 2: one of your names. They know that people are going

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Speaker 2: to come and salute you, and it's just, you know,

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Speaker 2: life's too short. Perhaps I was at the Kennedy Center,

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Speaker 2: which was really fun. One of the things that I

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Speaker 2: thought was so interesting about it is, you know, early

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Speaker 2: in his life, Lauren was trying to escape the cheesy

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Speaker 2: variety television gulch, you know, the way TV shows like

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Speaker 2: Sonny and Cher were always shot on these huge, wide

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Speaker 2: stages with cyclorama walls and big velvet curtains and a

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Speaker 2: lot of Medley's and and you know, he wanted something

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Speaker 2: much more raw and cool, which is what SNL was.

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Speaker 2: But sitting there in the Kennedy Center honors the show

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Speaker 2: that they put on from yes, it was fun. It

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Speaker 2: was all of his friends and everything, but it was

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Speaker 2: that kind of old style variety show and a lot

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Speaker 2: of Medley's And he told me a story about Paul Simon,

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Speaker 2: his friend Paul Simon who got an honored at the

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Speaker 2: Kennedy Center some years earlier, and having his co honor

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Speaker 2: Rey Elizabeth Taylor, lean over to him during you know,

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Speaker 2: some performance of Bridge over Troubled Water, and Liz Taylor says,

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Speaker 2: how does it feel when they fuck up your song?

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Speaker 4: Kennedy author and editor Susan Morrison.

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Speaker 1: If you're enjoying all the SNL talk, check out my

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Speaker 1: episode with paula Pell.

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Speaker 5: I used to write a sketch called six Degrees Celsius

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Speaker 5: and it was like a boy group and Will Ferrell

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Speaker 5: was their manager. He had tinted glasses of course, you know.

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Speaker 5: It was Jimmy Fallon and Chris Catan and Chris Parnell

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Speaker 5: and they were a boy group. And then we'd have

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Speaker 5: the host in it while that week and Sync was there.

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Speaker 5: We asked in Sync to be another boy group in

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Speaker 5: this competition on the show, playing a fake boy group,

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Speaker 5: and so I wrote a song called hold the Pickle,

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Speaker 5: and they were like McDonald's employees and so and sinc

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Speaker 5: came out with like McDonald's outfits on and saying hold

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Speaker 5: the pickle, and they're so they were so crazy talented,

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Speaker 5: Like they got there and looked at it for ten

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Speaker 5: minutes and had full harmonies, in full choreography. I mean,

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Speaker 5: they threw that shit together.

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Speaker 4: I was just amazed.

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Speaker 1: For the rest of my interview with Paula pelle Head

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Speaker 1: to Here's the Thing dot Org. After the break, Susan

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Speaker 1: Morrison shares Lorne Michael's rules for sketch comedy and why

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Speaker 1: cast members love being called into the principal's office, and

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Speaker 1: later I catch up with Steve Higgins to discuss Saturday

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Speaker 1: Night Live's fiftieth season. I'm Alec Baldwin and this is

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Speaker 1: Here's the Thing. Susan Morrison and I have both had

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Speaker 1: the privilege of working alongside Lorne Michaels and benefiting from

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Speaker 1: his wisdom and experience. I was curious about what Susan

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Speaker 1: thought about Lauren showing no signs of slowing down in

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Speaker 1: his eighties.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think he's extremely good at delegating and extremely

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Speaker 2: good at finding talent, and yet even his top ye deputies,

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Speaker 2: I think recognize that they need him.

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Speaker 3: He is the center.

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Speaker 4: Make sure that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Coonor O'Brien told me that everyone thinks that Lauren

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Speaker 2: has the secret. I don't know what it is, but

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Speaker 2: they think he has it. And Bill Hater likes to

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Speaker 2: say everyone who has ever worked there spends the rest

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Speaker 2: of their life trying to figure him out. It's a

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Speaker 2: combination of I mean, he's a great talker, as you know,

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Speaker 2: words kind of flow out of him like jazz, and

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Speaker 2: yet he can also keep things close to the vest

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Speaker 2: and be a little bit a little and be a

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Speaker 2: little bit aloof and a little bit mysterious, and it's

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Speaker 2: a very interesting management technique. People want his approval, they

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Speaker 2: want his time. There's a story about how Chris Farley

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Speaker 2: used to love being called into Lauren's office, even though

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Speaker 2: it was usually to be lectured about his drinking or

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Speaker 2: drug problem or something. You know, there was an air

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Speaker 2: of being called into the principal's office. But even that

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Speaker 2: people like because they just want that proximity to his

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Speaker 2: power and his mystery and another thing he has. And

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Speaker 2: I think it's been accentuated as the years have passed.

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Speaker 2: You know, in the beginning, he was the same age

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Speaker 2: as everybody. They were all peers, and that made management

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Speaker 2: a little bit complicated. Now he's, you know what, forty

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Speaker 2: to fifty and sixty years older than some of these people,

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Speaker 2: and many of them regard him as a father figure.

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Speaker 2: And he had a lot of father figures in his

435
00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:14,280
Speaker 2: own life because he lost his father suddenly when he

436
00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:18,320
Speaker 2: was fourteen. But he has developed this. You know, he's

437
00:22:18,359 --> 00:22:20,800
Speaker 2: a guy with a lot of axioms, a lot of rules,

438
00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:22,920
Speaker 2: a lot of rules of thumb. He loves to give

439
00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:25,760
Speaker 2: people tips on how to live and how to find

440
00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:28,840
Speaker 2: an apartment, how to get their kid into bribo. Yes

441
00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:32,600
Speaker 2: by now exactly. But in the same way that he

442
00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:34,840
Speaker 2: has all of his rules of sketch comedy, you know,

443
00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:38,520
Speaker 2: do it in sunshine. You know, don't overload the premise,

444
00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:41,560
Speaker 2: don't put a hat on a hat. The sets have

445
00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:45,760
Speaker 2: to be hard wall reality. Early on he realized that

446
00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:49,879
Speaker 2: in comedy, you don't want the character to have a

447
00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:54,320
Speaker 2: funny name like Walter Crankcase or wear a silly hat,

448
00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:58,680
Speaker 2: because that overwhelms the comedy writing and the comedy performing.

449
00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:00,920
Speaker 2: You know, you want that to be the the main event.

450
00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:02,720
Speaker 4: Now you're two girls.

451
00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:03,480
Speaker 3: I have two girls.

452
00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:04,680
Speaker 4: Are they in the biz at all.

453
00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:06,960
Speaker 3: They have both been in the biz.

454
00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:10,280
Speaker 2: Nancy worked for Adam Scott on severance for this whole

455
00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:15,000
Speaker 2: last second season and was really she was utterly indispensable

456
00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:19,160
Speaker 2: to Adam and Ben and Helen has She's been making

457
00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:23,720
Speaker 2: short films and she recently moved to Asheville, North Carolina,

458
00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:25,520
Speaker 2: just to kind of get out of the city and

459
00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:29,120
Speaker 2: try a different place. But yeah, they were both theater

460
00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:32,720
Speaker 2: kids who are interested in television and movies and doing

461
00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:33,800
Speaker 2: very interesting things.

462
00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:36,639
Speaker 1: I think one of the ultimate stories about Lauren is

463
00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:39,600
Speaker 1: we're at the gala at the Museum of Natural History

464
00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:42,080
Speaker 1: of Lauren's is the big mocker there. So I go

465
00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:45,119
Speaker 1: there one year and of course, any relationship that's important

466
00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:47,400
Speaker 1: to you, any relationship that you really feel it's such

467
00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:49,320
Speaker 1: a great opportunity for you as a person out in

468
00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:52,280
Speaker 1: terms of business. That person is someone who's important to you,

469
00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:55,000
Speaker 1: and you're so grateful that you know them that you think,

470
00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:58,280
Speaker 1: how can this relationship deepen and go even further? And

471
00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:00,080
Speaker 1: I wasn't thinking that when I said this slam, but

472
00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:01,520
Speaker 1: I turned him in front of a group of people,

473
00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:05,160
Speaker 1: and there were other people there, and I turned him.

474
00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:06,959
Speaker 1: I go, you know, Lauren, You're the only man I

475
00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:09,399
Speaker 1: know who I feel this close to, who I've never kissed,

476
00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:14,639
Speaker 1: And he literally just had the greatest Lauren face, and

477
00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:16,000
Speaker 1: he goes, let's keep it that way.

478
00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:22,320
Speaker 2: He's very good at the quick, deadpan comeback, the right comeback.

479
00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:25,359
Speaker 4: He nearly always I've never seen him wrong. He's almost

480
00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:26,000
Speaker 4: always right.

481
00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:28,800
Speaker 2: There's a funny bit in the book where his talent

482
00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:32,560
Speaker 2: people are describing a Steve Carrell movie, I think it

483
00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:35,680
Speaker 2: was called Marwin that was about to come out because

484
00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:39,280
Speaker 2: Correl was an upcoming host, and they said, yeah, Steve

485
00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:43,200
Speaker 2: Carell plays a guy who gets bullied by neo Nazis

486
00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:46,680
Speaker 2: because he collects little dolls, and Lauren just kind of

487
00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:49,200
Speaker 2: takes a beat and he goes, how can I invest?

488
00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:51,480
Speaker 3: It's just.

489
00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:59,679
Speaker 1: Author and editor Susan Morrison. I've had the honor of

490
00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:03,320
Speaker 1: host SNL more than a few times, and while there,

491
00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:06,359
Speaker 1: I've gotten to know Saturday Night Live writer and producer

492
00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:11,480
Speaker 1: Steve Higgins. Steve Higgins is a very busy man, juggling

493
00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:14,280
Speaker 1: his role as announcer of the Tonight show with Jimmy

494
00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:18,800
Speaker 1: Fallon while overseeing the SNL writer's room and making casting

495
00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:23,600
Speaker 1: decisions alongside Lorne Michaels. Higgins is a returning guest on

496
00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:26,440
Speaker 1: Here Is the Thing. I first spoke with him live

497
00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:31,080
Speaker 1: at Guildhall in East Hampton in twenty eighteen. I recently

498
00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:34,800
Speaker 1: had the opportunity to speak with Steve Higgins again, right

499
00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:38,879
Speaker 1: before the launch of Saturday Night Live's fiftieth season. I

500
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:42,080
Speaker 1: wanted the writer and comedian to reflect on his start

501
00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:44,639
Speaker 1: at SNL back in the nineties.

502
00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:49,720
Speaker 4: Nineteen ninety five, nineteen ninety five, Wow, wow, what is

503
00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:53,160
Speaker 4: that is my twenty ninth Clinton was present, Yeah, Daryl

504
00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:55,600
Speaker 4: was Clinton, Alec Baldwin and Alec Baldwin.

505
00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:59,719
Speaker 1: Now that leads me to you must be struck every

506
00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:02,359
Speaker 1: now and then if you have time to think about

507
00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:04,560
Speaker 1: what we couldn't do anymore that we used to do

508
00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:05,160
Speaker 1: years ago.

509
00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:08,000
Speaker 4: I kind of think of it as like, would this

510
00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:11,840
Speaker 4: make someone sad if they saw it? And then you go, well,

511
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:14,160
Speaker 4: then that's easy to not do. And I'm sure there's

512
00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:17,400
Speaker 4: ways to do stuff. Still, I think it's not as

513
00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:20,640
Speaker 4: hand tying as people say. And I think it's loosening

514
00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:22,880
Speaker 4: up now too, because I think people are getting more like, oh,

515
00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:26,320
Speaker 4: come on, they used to say intent doesn't matter and

516
00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:28,960
Speaker 4: you go, well, yeah, it kind of does. So I

517
00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:32,199
Speaker 4: think it's coming around to again. Mean spirited stuff is

518
00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:34,000
Speaker 4: not you know, that's always just mean.

519
00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:37,040
Speaker 1: But do you read at their bead through on Wednesdays?

520
00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:40,159
Speaker 1: Do you do their bead through? And everyone's howling laughing? Right,

521
00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:42,840
Speaker 1: this is a tough crowd to make laugh They realized

522
00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:44,720
Speaker 1: there's no point in laughing if it isn't funny, because

523
00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:46,120
Speaker 1: that's not going to help us get where we want

524
00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:48,280
Speaker 1: to go. When you do something that they think is

525
00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:50,200
Speaker 1: funny and they're all cracking up, do you turn around

526
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:51,480
Speaker 1: and throwsta and people go, we can't do.

527
00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:54,119
Speaker 4: That it's funny? Well, usually that's because it was like

528
00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:56,800
Speaker 4: a radio piece where you go like, oh wow, that's

529
00:26:56,840 --> 00:26:58,840
Speaker 4: super funny. But what are you going to see? Yeah,

530
00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:00,439
Speaker 4: what are you going to play with? That just going

531
00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:02,800
Speaker 4: to be a shot of somebody said talking and then

532
00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:06,439
Speaker 4: describing this thing that Usually it'll be like, you know,

533
00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:09,159
Speaker 4: lines like and let me see your note and you

534
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:11,119
Speaker 4: wrote that in crayon, you know what I mean? You

535
00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:13,720
Speaker 4: go like, oh, well that's okay, somebody to show it.

536
00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:17,480
Speaker 4: Then you know, you're more describing it than stuff. And

537
00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:19,800
Speaker 4: also we're trying to It's like people love as you know,

538
00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:21,840
Speaker 4: put table lefts in like, you know, we go like,

539
00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:25,320
Speaker 4: we're not HBO people. We can't do I would say,

540
00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:30,159
Speaker 4: make it an innuendo, not an up your assa. So

541
00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:33,000
Speaker 4: they go like, well it's it's a blowjob. No, that's

542
00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:37,600
Speaker 4: not that's not no. No, well just not saying yeah, yeah,

543
00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:40,240
Speaker 4: we're a network show. Please. Yeah.

544
00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:43,600
Speaker 1: Now, when they started doing the show, and I've forgotten this,

545
00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:45,080
Speaker 1: and I don't think. I didn't think I would, but

546
00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:48,600
Speaker 1: when they started doing the show live on the West Coast,

547
00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:51,280
Speaker 1: that's been how many years now, oh gosh, ten, yeah,

548
00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:54,280
Speaker 1: something like that, Yeah, a few few, and they started

549
00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:56,160
Speaker 1: doing that, they had to kind of dial it down.

550
00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:58,680
Speaker 4: If it's a network a little bit prime time. Yeah,

551
00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:01,479
Speaker 4: so when you were the show now is not as

552
00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:05,040
Speaker 4: it's not. It's not as ripe because it's prime time.

553
00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:08,159
Speaker 4: Because there we really could say whatever we wanted to.

554
00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:12,120
Speaker 4: After what is it eleven thirty? The FCC rule ends

555
00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:15,000
Speaker 4: at whatever, you know, sometime that you're free. But it's

556
00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:17,159
Speaker 4: like now that we're eight. I think it's kind of

557
00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:19,960
Speaker 4: like Howard Stern. You know, once he could do whatever

558
00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:22,880
Speaker 4: he wanted to. He went to, IY, might as well

559
00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:24,480
Speaker 4: just be good and have fun without whatever, you know

560
00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:26,480
Speaker 4: what I mean, It became a different thing, and I

561
00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:30,280
Speaker 4: think that's run. Yeah, that's more fun than you know,

562
00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:33,640
Speaker 4: like my generation of people never tried to fool the sensors.

563
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:35,800
Speaker 1: Well mean, obviously I always refer to when we did

564
00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:38,280
Speaker 1: thirty Rock and Tina taught me. They all taught me

565
00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:40,760
Speaker 1: the difficulty of doing it in prime time on a

566
00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:43,880
Speaker 1: network show and having a you know, makes you more clever,

567
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:47,160
Speaker 1: it makes you smarter. But for you guys, obviously it

568
00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:49,360
Speaker 1: was a ratings boondoggle for the show.

569
00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:49,840
Speaker 4: Correct.

570
00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:51,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, once you're on the West Coast live and you

571
00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:54,840
Speaker 1: bring that audience that might not see a tape show, right,

572
00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:56,720
Speaker 1: people who might not stay up till eleven thirty, they

573
00:28:56,760 --> 00:28:59,120
Speaker 1: might record it in the old days people recording with

574
00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:00,600
Speaker 1: tapes and it like that.

575
00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:03,920
Speaker 4: But this was a huge boost for the show, correct. Yeah.

576
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:06,560
Speaker 4: I think also it just made sense that they didn't

577
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:08,840
Speaker 4: have anything on you know what I mean, and we're

578
00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:12,400
Speaker 4: doing it anyway, so why not And yeah they're not

579
00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:14,720
Speaker 4: showing anything. It was, you know, murder, she wrote, maybe

580
00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:16,240
Speaker 4: I think at one time or something like that.

581
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:21,400
Speaker 1: Now, fiftieth anniversary, you start thirty years ago, so you're

582
00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:25,680
Speaker 1: season twenty Yeah, twenty one. You're thirty years ago, in

583
00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:29,120
Speaker 1: ninety five or twenty nine years ago. Did you ever

584
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:30,800
Speaker 1: imagine the show would go on? I mean, I know

585
00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:33,240
Speaker 1: that's a silly question, but I myself when I did,

586
00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:34,160
Speaker 1: you did.

587
00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:36,360
Speaker 4: Well because it's like the Tonight Show, right, They're not

588
00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:38,680
Speaker 4: going to lose the IP or whatever they call it,

589
00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:40,880
Speaker 4: you know what I mean, it's too valuable. It might change,

590
00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:45,000
Speaker 4: you know, like whenever Lauren leaves would won't be probably

591
00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:47,280
Speaker 4: for another ten years or something like that. But then

592
00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:50,120
Speaker 4: they're going to have to redo it. It's like Johnny

593
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:53,680
Speaker 4: Carson leaving. You know, it's like they'll go to whatever. Yeah, exactly,

594
00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:55,440
Speaker 4: whatever it is, they'll do whatever they have to do.

595
00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:58,120
Speaker 4: Cut slash the budget, and you know, make a new

596
00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:03,640
Speaker 4: less Castle show, less pre tapes, less money, spend less grandeur.

597
00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:06,680
Speaker 1: Lauren is someone who one of the because I'm obviously

598
00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:09,320
Speaker 1: a great admirer of his as well as he's my friend.

599
00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:12,280
Speaker 1: Lauren taught me that when you're at a certain point

600
00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:14,560
Speaker 1: in the ratings, like with thirty Rock, we were not

601
00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:17,280
Speaker 1: a ratings juggernaut, but we were at a point where

602
00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:19,400
Speaker 1: were at a level in which they knew that they

603
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:21,160
Speaker 1: got rid of us. Anything they replaced us with, it

604
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:23,120
Speaker 1: was going to make less money. And the same is

605
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:25,320
Speaker 1: true I assume with SNL, which is that they Lauren

606
00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:27,720
Speaker 1: has always been to convince them that it is in

607
00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:29,680
Speaker 1: their interest to keep the show on the air. Do

608
00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:31,480
Speaker 1: you think that's true that the thing is stayed on

609
00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:33,680
Speaker 1: the air largely because of Lauren.

610
00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:36,600
Speaker 4: In the form it is, yes, right, because he's a master.

611
00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:39,600
Speaker 4: He is an empresario. You'd need like ten people to

612
00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:43,520
Speaker 4: replace him, right, because he does all the he talks,

613
00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:45,960
Speaker 4: you know what I mean, everything he goes, everywhere he goes.

614
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:48,600
Speaker 4: It's about SNL, every party he goes to, every premier

615
00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:51,760
Speaker 4: he goes, everything he goes to, and his rolodexes or

616
00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:53,880
Speaker 4: whatever they call it now contacts are deep.

617
00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:57,640
Speaker 1: Switching to the cast for a moment. I mean, in

618
00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:01,120
Speaker 1: my mind, when you look at it with the right lens,

619
00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:04,200
Speaker 1: it's pretty much the same. Who you're going after what

620
00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:07,720
Speaker 1: you want. It may change somewhat, you may have a

621
00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:09,600
Speaker 1: little more of this and a little less of this

622
00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:12,320
Speaker 1: or what have you. But the casting of the show

623
00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:15,840
Speaker 1: is I mean, obviously the faces and the dynamics are

624
00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:18,640
Speaker 1: very very different, but the cast of the show is

625
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:22,320
Speaker 1: pretty much some age wise, Yeah, their roots where they

626
00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:23,000
Speaker 1: come from.

627
00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:26,000
Speaker 4: Well, it's also just change looking. No, it's always just

628
00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:28,680
Speaker 4: who's the funniest person out there and we'll figure out

629
00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:31,280
Speaker 4: what to do with them then, you know, just put

630
00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:33,560
Speaker 4: the funniest people you can find in auditions and things

631
00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:35,800
Speaker 4: like that and just get them in the building and

632
00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:38,920
Speaker 4: we'll see what happens. And sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

633
00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:41,600
Speaker 1: But without naming names, when someone is not invited back

634
00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:43,920
Speaker 1: when they when they were there for a year or

635
00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:46,600
Speaker 1: such show, and then they're gone, they're typically gone. Why

636
00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:49,680
Speaker 1: they just this that doesn't know alchemy there or.

637
00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:53,960
Speaker 4: Usually it's like sometimes it's something happened or or that

638
00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:57,320
Speaker 4: they can't replicate live, you know what I mean, Because

639
00:31:57,320 --> 00:32:00,960
Speaker 4: it's a very specific skill set to perform live at

640
00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:03,240
Speaker 4: the time at the thing and be better than dress

641
00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:04,760
Speaker 4: then you you know, be better in there than you

642
00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:06,520
Speaker 4: were dressed, but be just a good enough at dress

643
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:08,959
Speaker 4: to get it on and to be able to function

644
00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:13,000
Speaker 4: in the high stress you know world of You know,

645
00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:15,520
Speaker 4: it's like fighter pilots. Not everybody's cut out to be

646
00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:17,800
Speaker 4: a fighter pilot. That doesn't mean they're not good, you

647
00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:19,760
Speaker 4: know what I mean. There's there's people who didn't do

648
00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:22,040
Speaker 4: well on the show with the specific skills, yeah, who

649
00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:25,040
Speaker 4: did great other places, and it's like you go it

650
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:31,200
Speaker 4: just whatever. For whatever reason, they couldn't master that format.

651
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:33,720
Speaker 1: I feel like what I understood back them was that

652
00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:36,520
Speaker 1: the cast had to find a way, whether they were

653
00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:39,440
Speaker 1: writing themselves or people were writing for them. That was

654
00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:42,560
Speaker 1: really the anvil, the crucible there of their career going

655
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:45,440
Speaker 1: on was could they either do the writing.

656
00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:46,600
Speaker 4: Or muster the force.

657
00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:48,400
Speaker 1: They don't, then they had to exactly someone had to

658
00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:50,200
Speaker 1: fall in love with them and become their writing partner.

659
00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:51,160
Speaker 3: It's really like.

660
00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:54,080
Speaker 4: No other show, right, It's like all of show business.

661
00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:55,280
Speaker 4: And I was like, if you you know what I mean,

662
00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:56,800
Speaker 4: because then it's like you're hot one day or not

663
00:32:56,880 --> 00:32:58,480
Speaker 4: one day. You're then one day, and you've got to

664
00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:01,960
Speaker 4: figure out how to make peace people want to work

665
00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:04,200
Speaker 4: with you and want to be with you and want

666
00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:07,520
Speaker 4: to watch you, and figure out who is the best

667
00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:09,600
Speaker 4: people to work with, who's the wrong people to work with,

668
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:12,480
Speaker 4: what kind of material you should use on other shows.

669
00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:15,840
Speaker 4: It's really like hear casts take the script go. Writers

670
00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:18,480
Speaker 4: don't meet the people on the show. They're in the

671
00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:21,840
Speaker 4: separate building and nessa ells more like old studio system

672
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:25,520
Speaker 4: where writers and performers on seventeen are the same, you know,

673
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:29,680
Speaker 4: and it's like it's just figuring out how to navigate

674
00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:32,600
Speaker 4: the skill set. You need to get your stuff on

675
00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:35,160
Speaker 4: the air and work. You know, a lot of people

676
00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:37,680
Speaker 4: too like things at the table too, like screaming at

677
00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:40,480
Speaker 4: the table, kills at the table. Humans don't like it.

678
00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:43,520
Speaker 4: They get scared. Like Molly as Mary Catherine Gallagher, she

679
00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:45,960
Speaker 4: would always have to get up and say superstar because

680
00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:48,719
Speaker 4: ross people thought she was really hurt, and she probably

681
00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:52,520
Speaker 4: did really hurt. She's Bruce's But the brilliance of Molly

682
00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:56,000
Speaker 4: to go like superstar, you know, and would That's one

683
00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:59,160
Speaker 4: example I'd say to newcast members Tuesday, you can't play

684
00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:02,000
Speaker 4: a loser. You can't somebody who thinks they're a loser.

685
00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:04,640
Speaker 4: They could be a loser, but they can't think that.

686
00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:07,880
Speaker 4: We don't want to think your characters shaken, Yes, and

687
00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:12,640
Speaker 4: there will. Damon Roberts, he's a winner, he's a winner.

688
00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:14,759
Speaker 4: He doesn't you know, he doesn't want here. Don't wait

689
00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:15,400
Speaker 4: on my parade.

690
00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:19,640
Speaker 1: Molly Shannon was the Chuck Bednarik of the Evil Canevil

691
00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:22,160
Speaker 1: of comedy I mean she do this, you know, was like, Wow,

692
00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:25,359
Speaker 1: you're you're worse than Farley. You're stronger than You're tougher

693
00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:28,680
Speaker 1: than Farley. But I see that people who they combined

694
00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:31,759
Speaker 1: with people and they have this relationship with a writer,

695
00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:34,359
Speaker 1: and you see them just fly, you know. I mean

696
00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:38,480
Speaker 1: whoever Paul Lapel was fixated on, whoever she liked a lot.

697
00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:40,640
Speaker 1: And I was always a beneficial because the Tony Bennett

698
00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:42,560
Speaker 1: stuff and she'd write that stuff and I thought I

699
00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:44,080
Speaker 1: was gonna cry. I would sit in her room and

700
00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:46,200
Speaker 1: just cry. And you say, just like a roll of

701
00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:50,360
Speaker 1: barbecue Frido's. You know, no clippers could tame those poka chips.

702
00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:52,640
Speaker 1: I mean, where does this come from from?

703
00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:54,799
Speaker 4: This girl? The mom where you're cressing her feet and

704
00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:56,479
Speaker 4: the doctor came and said she's gone.

705
00:34:57,239 --> 00:34:59,800
Speaker 1: That once made love to a woman's feet for nine hours.

706
00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:02,879
Speaker 1: Then the doctor came in and said, mister Bennett, she's gone.

707
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:04,840
Speaker 4: God.

708
00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:07,120
Speaker 1: But let me just say this about you, which is

709
00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:11,520
Speaker 1: you're so funny and smart in that managerial way.

710
00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:12,839
Speaker 4: Like to work for you.

711
00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:15,479
Speaker 1: There's never a thought when you're working for somebody who's

712
00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:17,880
Speaker 1: management of any kind where even if they are funny,

713
00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:21,160
Speaker 1: they're im muted, they're not charming at all. But with you,

714
00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:24,400
Speaker 1: I feel like people are more inclined to listen to

715
00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:27,640
Speaker 1: you and follow you because you are very charming and

716
00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:31,000
Speaker 1: funny in your banter and you're not just writing stuff

717
00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:32,919
Speaker 1: that's funny and handing in when you're talking to somebody,

718
00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:33,400
Speaker 1: you're funny.

719
00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:35,560
Speaker 4: And I'm wondering you could.

720
00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:36,960
Speaker 1: Have worked a lot of other places.

721
00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:41,719
Speaker 4: I think once I started there, it instantly made all

722
00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:45,040
Speaker 4: other TVs seem boring, right, and movies seem boring. Like

723
00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:47,920
Speaker 4: I don't even like to go on pre tapes anymore

724
00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:51,560
Speaker 4: because there's something about the live that you go like,

725
00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:54,719
Speaker 4: this is using every part of your brain. You felt

726
00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:57,919
Speaker 4: like every and also that we do stuff you use

727
00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:01,160
Speaker 4: every part of you know, we write pieces that take

728
00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:03,239
Speaker 4: place in the sixteenth century, eater World War two, you

729
00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:06,120
Speaker 4: know what I mean. Also, there's never a it's never yeah,

730
00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:11,640
Speaker 4: it's never dull exactly. Think about all the Godfather Part

731
00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:14,239
Speaker 4: four and you're you're looking at the stuff, you go,

732
00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:17,400
Speaker 4: oh my god, these these wigs are better than movie wigs.

733
00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:20,960
Speaker 4: These costumes are the sets. When we switch to HDT crew,

734
00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:23,720
Speaker 4: only thing we had to do was trim the lace

735
00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:26,359
Speaker 4: on the wigs more. That's the only change we had

736
00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:29,200
Speaker 4: to do because Eugene and those you know, they and

737
00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:32,919
Speaker 4: the sets were so beautiful that because they were from theater,

738
00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:35,759
Speaker 4: so they had to look real up close. So we

739
00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:38,839
Speaker 4: were our sets are over. You know, we've never used

740
00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:43,880
Speaker 4: the two dimensional rule of television or movies. Everything was gorgeous.

741
00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:46,680
Speaker 4: So and also you're doing a show like you're reading

742
00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:48,000
Speaker 4: those books when your kid, Wow, I want to be

743
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:49,399
Speaker 4: a writer in New York and work on your show

744
00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:51,600
Speaker 4: of shows. Well, they don't make that anymore, so you can't.

745
00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:54,320
Speaker 4: And then apparently they do, and this show shouldn't exist.

746
00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:57,720
Speaker 4: It's it's like taking a time machine and everything about

747
00:36:57,719 --> 00:37:00,560
Speaker 4: it is blessed. And every time you get in the mood,

748
00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:02,200
Speaker 4: you gotta go, oh, I got to remember I get

749
00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:03,799
Speaker 4: to do this. I don't got to do this. I

750
00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:07,680
Speaker 4: get to do this thing that you still enjoy it

751
00:37:07,719 --> 00:37:09,920
Speaker 4: like him, Yeah, I enjoy it. And somebody you know,

752
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:12,520
Speaker 4: somebodys you go like, I can't you know it. But

753
00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:15,560
Speaker 4: for the most part you're going like, where else are

754
00:37:15,560 --> 00:37:17,359
Speaker 4: you going to go to do that?

755
00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:17,880
Speaker 1: You know what I mean?

756
00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:20,879
Speaker 4: There's no other place on earth that's like this place,

757
00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:23,080
Speaker 4: And so it'd be like once I did that. The

758
00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:25,960
Speaker 4: first five years, I was just scared to death, you know,

759
00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:28,120
Speaker 4: when I'd smoked so much. I was come to realize

760
00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:30,600
Speaker 4: self medicating through coffee and cigarettes.

761
00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:32,719
Speaker 1: As you recall, Lawn said that about the sets when

762
00:37:32,719 --> 00:37:35,400
Speaker 1: it went HD. He said you could really see more

763
00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:38,160
Speaker 1: vividly how stained the sets were from Marcie's smoking.

764
00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:40,440
Speaker 4: With the problem with.

765
00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:44,000
Speaker 1: HD, it all became really clear how much smoking Marcy

766
00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:47,440
Speaker 1: had done. It all kind of grade everything. So Keenan

767
00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:49,719
Speaker 1: has been on there for I don't even want to guess,

768
00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:51,719
Speaker 1: like twenty years or something like that, right, And you

769
00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:53,080
Speaker 1: wonder why does he stay?

770
00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:54,560
Speaker 4: I mean, probably it's a question for him. But whence

771
00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:56,440
Speaker 4: he stays the same thing he loves it's he loves

772
00:37:56,440 --> 00:37:58,439
Speaker 4: it and he's so good at it and he can

773
00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:01,000
Speaker 4: do other things. When you're cast, you work like twenty

774
00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:03,640
Speaker 4: weeks a year. Yeah, you know what I mean. You work.

775
00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:05,880
Speaker 4: You're there like we have a way of a fo

776
00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:08,560
Speaker 4: n Yeah, your four week run coming up, and it's

777
00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:11,400
Speaker 4: just like you don't it's like working on the pipeline

778
00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:12,640
Speaker 4: or whatever, you know what I mean. It's like you're

779
00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:15,759
Speaker 4: an oil people crying in their office yes, exactly, and

780
00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:17,960
Speaker 4: you don't you really, you don't pretend like you have

781
00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:20,799
Speaker 4: a life, right.

782
00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:25,719
Speaker 1: Saturday Night Live writer and producer Steve Higgins. If you're

783
00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:28,719
Speaker 1: enjoying this conversation, tell a friend and be sure to

784
00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:33,120
Speaker 1: follow Here's the Thing on the iHeartRadio app, Spotify or

785
00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:37,360
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts. When we come back, Steve

786
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:40,920
Speaker 1: Higgins shares the rules at SNL to keep the show

787
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:52,359
Speaker 1: at the top of its game. I'm Alec Baldwin and

788
00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:56,520
Speaker 1: you're listening to Here's the Thing. To celebrate the fiftieth

789
00:38:56,520 --> 00:39:01,200
Speaker 1: anniversary of the iconic sketch comedy show, NBC will air

790
00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:05,960
Speaker 1: a three hours Saturday Night Live primetime special. Steve Higgins

791
00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:09,919
Speaker 1: reflects on the irony of the date of this upcoming anniversary.

792
00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:15,200
Speaker 4: Saturday Night Lives fiftieth anniversaries on Sunday, February sixty exactly.

793
00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:18,160
Speaker 4: It was on Sunday last time too. Remember that was

794
00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:20,400
Speaker 4: a Sunday, Yeah, because with Jimmy the next day.

795
00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:24,040
Speaker 1: It's like, oh Jesus Priest, remember we did thirty Rock

796
00:39:24,120 --> 00:39:25,799
Speaker 1: Live from eight h I love that.

797
00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:28,479
Speaker 4: Yeah. I still find scripts in my office on nine,

798
00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:31,719
Speaker 4: like under the front desks and stuff like that. Yeah,

799
00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:32,920
Speaker 4: under the couch. Yeah.

800
00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:35,359
Speaker 1: Jack mcbair did the show a couple of months ago,

801
00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:37,440
Speaker 1: and he was so great, and I just remember him

802
00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:38,920
Speaker 1: sitting there. We did the live show, and he's like,

803
00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:42,200
Speaker 1: somebody says they want to kill live television. It's useless,

804
00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:46,839
Speaker 1: and Jack says, oh, no, remember the old Joey Montero show.

805
00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:49,279
Speaker 1: He was like you, mister Jordan. He didn't like to

806
00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:52,160
Speaker 1: rehearse and he wanted the unitior as fast as he could.

807
00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:56,640
Speaker 1: And I thought they were pretty spot on there about

808
00:39:56,680 --> 00:40:00,120
Speaker 1: Tracy Morgan. Yeah, Tracy Morgan, Tracy Jordan, the overlap. But

809
00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:01,640
Speaker 1: then we did that thing where I did that little

810
00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:04,080
Speaker 1: sketch about where I played like a Dean Martin man Quay,

811
00:40:04,719 --> 00:40:07,160
Speaker 1: and it was so much fun. That's what I love

812
00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:10,040
Speaker 1: was playing people who were just like no one else

813
00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:12,279
Speaker 1: would ever ask you to do that. No, like me

814
00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:15,120
Speaker 1: with Tony Bennett and this and that and then Trump,

815
00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:17,120
Speaker 1: which I mean I always say to people, I don't

816
00:40:17,160 --> 00:40:19,799
Speaker 1: think my Trump was anything special, but I gave him

817
00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:22,919
Speaker 1: what I thought he deserved. It was his spirit, well

818
00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:26,319
Speaker 1: but exactly. And plus, as people don't understand, you're doing

819
00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:28,680
Speaker 1: the cold opening of a live TV show in a

820
00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:31,120
Speaker 1: studio we have to split the difference between the camera

821
00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:34,080
Speaker 1: and the audience. Sometimes you're too loud because you're playing

822
00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:36,480
Speaker 1: to the crowd, and sometimes you're you play a little

823
00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:38,600
Speaker 1: softer and it's not as funny, you know, and you've

824
00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:41,400
Speaker 1: just got that script. Yeah, ten minutes. But he's a

825
00:40:41,440 --> 00:40:43,840
Speaker 1: little brassy because we're like, what do you want me

826
00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:45,320
Speaker 1: to do? Come out and do with like a really

827
00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:48,560
Speaker 1: deep impersonation of Trump. That'll be like a nineteen minute

828
00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:50,719
Speaker 1: cold opening, and ain't gonna be cold. It's gonna be

829
00:40:51,239 --> 00:40:51,840
Speaker 1: half baked.

830
00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:54,640
Speaker 4: What I think is funny tell me is that you

831
00:40:54,680 --> 00:40:56,960
Speaker 4: were one of the best mimics in the world. I

832
00:40:56,960 --> 00:40:59,080
Speaker 4: don't know if people know this. And the thing you're

833
00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:01,279
Speaker 4: most famous for it is an impression that you don't

834
00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:03,839
Speaker 4: even do you know what I mean. I would never

835
00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:06,719
Speaker 4: do that. No, It's like it's like your brando. Your

836
00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:07,760
Speaker 4: brando is perfect.

837
00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:12,600
Speaker 6: You and I are like two dogs sniffing each other

838
00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:20,839
Speaker 6: and I'm sniffing you and you're sniffing me, and my god,

839
00:41:21,360 --> 00:41:22,719
Speaker 6: my god, I hate that.

840
00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:26,640
Speaker 4: I just I just hate it.

841
00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:29,960
Speaker 6: And you say whatever you want to say to me,

842
00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:34,160
Speaker 6: and I'll say whatever I want to say to you.

843
00:41:34,920 --> 00:41:37,560
Speaker 4: In his moomoo in his momo and then is that

844
00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:39,279
Speaker 4: all right with you? I was like, you got it, man,

845
00:41:39,640 --> 00:41:41,960
Speaker 4: you got it. I'm gonna say what everyone, I'm gonna

846
00:41:42,040 --> 00:41:44,000
Speaker 4: let you have it. Now here comes. Oh you won't

847
00:41:44,080 --> 00:41:46,879
Speaker 4: be like that. Huh. Here we go and the four

848
00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:49,080
Speaker 4: stages a Pacino so he's.

849
00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:53,759
Speaker 1: Young, Butchina young Cerpaco. He's up here really high. He's

850
00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:56,759
Speaker 1: grinding his teeth. Who knows why, I can guess, and

851
00:41:56,800 --> 00:41:59,040
Speaker 1: he's and he says, you are going to go for

852
00:41:59,080 --> 00:42:03,399
Speaker 1: a walk with out coups, you'll fuck me. I put

853
00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:06,439
Speaker 1: one in your back. That's it from Cirproco. Then then

854
00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:09,880
Speaker 1: Pacino is like, you know, uh, you're out of order.

855
00:42:10,120 --> 00:42:12,879
Speaker 1: You're out of order. No, you are out of order.

856
00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:15,440
Speaker 1: You gotta get that order. You gotta get the New

857
00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:17,319
Speaker 1: York just right, I think. And then you get into

858
00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:18,839
Speaker 1: the third phase where he's like.

859
00:42:18,840 --> 00:42:22,759
Speaker 7: Way down, he's so down here. Let me tell you

860
00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:27,399
Speaker 7: something you you don't understand. And then you get into

861
00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:29,520
Speaker 7: the Southern version. Then he would for a period where

862
00:42:29,520 --> 00:42:32,200
Speaker 7: he's sound like Fogo and Leghorn. He was like, I

863
00:42:32,560 --> 00:42:34,360
Speaker 7: realize you don't know.

864
00:42:35,120 --> 00:42:36,040
Speaker 4: Oh my god.

865
00:42:36,520 --> 00:42:40,040
Speaker 1: I saw her going down the street and I was like,

866
00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:42,880
Speaker 1: whoa to get back to the show just for a moment.

867
00:42:42,920 --> 00:42:45,280
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously during the season you have little time.

868
00:42:45,320 --> 00:42:47,160
Speaker 1: But I wonder do you still make it a point

869
00:42:47,320 --> 00:42:49,920
Speaker 1: to watch other comedy on shows and see what other

870
00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:50,680
Speaker 1: people are doing.

871
00:42:50,719 --> 00:42:53,799
Speaker 4: Does that feed you? Does it inform you at all?

872
00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:54,080
Speaker 1: Now?

873
00:42:54,080 --> 00:42:56,600
Speaker 4: Do you need to know that to do your show? Well?

874
00:42:56,640 --> 00:42:59,520
Speaker 4: You watch talk shows for I watched them for like,

875
00:42:59,640 --> 00:43:02,239
Speaker 4: oh my god, I look at how that person would

876
00:43:02,239 --> 00:43:03,680
Speaker 4: be a good host, you know what I mean? Like

877
00:43:03,800 --> 00:43:06,279
Speaker 4: you see them on the being lively or whatever, and

878
00:43:06,320 --> 00:43:08,480
Speaker 4: you go, hey, you guys, yeah, it's well it's not

879
00:43:08,560 --> 00:43:10,200
Speaker 4: I don't decide it, but I go, hey, that person

880
00:43:10,280 --> 00:43:11,560
Speaker 4: was really fun on Jimmy, you know what I mean?

881
00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:14,480
Speaker 4: Or this person was that or whatever. And then it

882
00:43:14,520 --> 00:43:19,640
Speaker 4: feels sadly, it all feels like a bustman's holiday watching comedy,

883
00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:21,319
Speaker 4: do you know what I mean? So you're like, I

884
00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:23,640
Speaker 4: usually watch like documentaries or go home listen to a

885
00:43:23,640 --> 00:43:26,200
Speaker 4: book on tape, or listen to a pot What.

886
00:43:26,200 --> 00:43:26,560
Speaker 1: Do you do?

887
00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:30,400
Speaker 4: You like films? You're like, what's your programming? I have

888
00:43:30,560 --> 00:43:32,879
Speaker 4: been a lot of reading and books on tape.

889
00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:34,560
Speaker 1: You have internet out there in the country. You have

890
00:43:34,640 --> 00:43:35,399
Speaker 1: internet there we.

891
00:43:35,360 --> 00:43:40,920
Speaker 4: Have Intra, which is just connects my building to the next. Yeah, exactly,

892
00:43:41,239 --> 00:43:44,640
Speaker 4: it's like Interstate Highway, right, but it's all feels like

893
00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:47,800
Speaker 4: but no film, no, you know, binge TV shows. I

894
00:43:48,200 --> 00:43:49,759
Speaker 4: try to, you know what I mean, Like, but what's

895
00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:51,760
Speaker 4: about the comedies? What's the fast one I watched?

896
00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:52,000
Speaker 7: Was?

897
00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:54,239
Speaker 4: I watched The Bear because my niece is in that.

898
00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:56,760
Speaker 4: What happens too is I get into shows and then

899
00:43:57,400 --> 00:43:59,520
Speaker 4: this is why I'm old, because I don't like this

900
00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:02,560
Speaker 4: six years and then you forgot that. You watch the

901
00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:04,880
Speaker 4: first two seasons and then it comes out again and

902
00:44:04,920 --> 00:44:07,520
Speaker 4: you're going like, there's no even water cooler talk anymore.

903
00:44:07,520 --> 00:44:08,839
Speaker 4: So you don't even know because people go, oh, don't,

904
00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:11,239
Speaker 4: I can't, don't no spoilers, So now we can't even

905
00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:14,319
Speaker 4: talk about that. I binge the Sopranos like every two years. Yeah,

906
00:44:14,360 --> 00:44:17,560
Speaker 4: that's a binge the last year and I kind of now,

907
00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:20,160
Speaker 4: I'm just going back to things that I know happened

908
00:44:20,200 --> 00:44:22,680
Speaker 4: before the world got so dark. So oh, you'll watch

909
00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:24,000
Speaker 4: things I've seen before.

910
00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:26,680
Speaker 1: Well, I want to watch things because people will tell

911
00:44:26,719 --> 00:44:29,640
Speaker 1: me and I don't really care. But I watch things

912
00:44:29,680 --> 00:44:32,399
Speaker 1: where there's something I feel like I've got I don't

913
00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:32,839
Speaker 1: want to miss.

914
00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:36,080
Speaker 4: Like Jennifer Coolidge in White Lotus. Yeah, I saw that.

915
00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:38,440
Speaker 1: I wasn't big on White Load, nothing wrong with it,

916
00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:39,560
Speaker 1: but I thought, oh, I don't know if I want

917
00:44:39,560 --> 00:44:41,399
Speaker 1: to watch this. And then somebody said, but you've got

918
00:44:41,440 --> 00:44:43,719
Speaker 1: to see this woman in this role, and she was

919
00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:44,360
Speaker 1: just amazing.

920
00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:45,000
Speaker 6: I love.

921
00:44:45,160 --> 00:44:47,120
Speaker 4: What's also that thing where people tell you stuff and

922
00:44:47,120 --> 00:44:49,640
Speaker 4: then when you've heard enough about it, you go like,

923
00:44:49,719 --> 00:44:51,440
Speaker 4: and then all you do is watch it for well,

924
00:44:51,440 --> 00:44:52,799
Speaker 4: it can't be that good, you know what I mean.

925
00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:55,080
Speaker 4: You can put up with a lot of stuff and

926
00:44:55,120 --> 00:45:00,160
Speaker 4: you can't explain why it's so fascinating to watch these people,

927
00:45:00,520 --> 00:45:02,040
Speaker 4: you know what I mean. And so rarely do you

928
00:45:02,080 --> 00:45:06,040
Speaker 4: see something that transforms everything and you go like, oh

929
00:45:06,120 --> 00:45:09,239
Speaker 4: that is something else. Oh my god, because how rare

930
00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:09,560
Speaker 4: is that.

931
00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:12,279
Speaker 1: I'll never forget him. At the Emmys, I go to

932
00:45:12,320 --> 00:45:13,880
Speaker 1: the other side to say hi to a couple of

933
00:45:13,920 --> 00:45:16,560
Speaker 1: people doing some you know, wopping break there of like

934
00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:18,600
Speaker 1: ten minutes or something, and I go over and I

935
00:45:18,640 --> 00:45:22,080
Speaker 1: see everybody from Westworld seated together. There's Ed with Amy.

936
00:45:22,160 --> 00:45:24,840
Speaker 1: Now I worship Amy. I did Streetcar on Broadway with

937
00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:27,000
Speaker 1: Amy in ninety and your mom loved ed and my

938
00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:28,960
Speaker 1: mom loved that exactly.

939
00:45:29,520 --> 00:45:30,680
Speaker 4: Well, a lot of women love that.

940
00:45:30,760 --> 00:45:33,640
Speaker 1: But anyway, he's there and I lean into him. He smiles,

941
00:45:33,680 --> 00:45:35,360
Speaker 1: he gets up, he gives me a handshake, and I

942
00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:36,320
Speaker 1: lean into him and I whisper.

943
00:45:36,360 --> 00:45:38,320
Speaker 4: I go, what is your show about?

944
00:45:39,200 --> 00:45:42,040
Speaker 1: And he goes, I was hoping you'd tell me. Last

945
00:45:42,120 --> 00:45:46,680
Speaker 1: couple questions, why do audiences? Do you think? Why have audiences?

946
00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:49,000
Speaker 1: Because this is the critical thing of the numbers weren't there,

947
00:45:49,520 --> 00:45:51,399
Speaker 1: and there's times that the numbers weren't there, but they

948
00:45:51,680 --> 00:45:53,200
Speaker 1: fought back and made some changes.

949
00:45:53,360 --> 00:45:55,840
Speaker 4: We are now the number one entertainment show on television,

950
00:45:55,880 --> 00:45:58,359
Speaker 4: all of television. Right. No, I, it's just sad, right

951
00:45:58,360 --> 00:46:00,680
Speaker 4: because you know what I mean, because the the TV

952
00:46:00,800 --> 00:46:03,960
Speaker 4: watching has gone down so much that a show at

953
00:46:04,960 --> 00:46:07,520
Speaker 4: nothing to do with our show. But that shouldn't be

954
00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:09,239
Speaker 4: the way. It shouldn't be a show that's on at

955
00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:10,279
Speaker 4: eleven thirty at night.

956
00:46:10,640 --> 00:46:16,040
Speaker 1: And obviously the show wouldn't have stayed for this inconceivable

957
00:46:16,080 --> 00:46:19,320
Speaker 1: amount of time, fifty years. It's just unbelievable to me

958
00:46:19,360 --> 00:46:21,440
Speaker 1: and Lauren there for all but that slug of time

959
00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:24,440
Speaker 1: where he left briefly for a couple of years or

960
00:46:24,440 --> 00:46:27,160
Speaker 1: few years. But you can't survive if you don't have

961
00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:31,520
Speaker 1: an audience. What is the thing that audiences keep returning to.

962
00:46:32,360 --> 00:46:34,800
Speaker 1: I think it's that he's Lauren set up. He's like

963
00:46:35,120 --> 00:46:36,960
Speaker 1: the James Madison of comedy.

964
00:46:37,040 --> 00:46:41,840
Speaker 4: He's set up these rules so that the show isn't

965
00:46:41,920 --> 00:46:46,360
Speaker 4: run by a seventy year old man. Clean hits, fair, hits,

966
00:46:47,080 --> 00:46:49,640
Speaker 4: everything is right, you give change all those rules that

967
00:46:49,680 --> 00:46:52,360
Speaker 4: he's set up for doing sketch comedy that weren't skits.

968
00:46:52,440 --> 00:46:55,239
Speaker 4: There were sketches and played to the top of your game,

969
00:46:55,320 --> 00:46:57,239
Speaker 4: be as smart as you can. Those are the rules

970
00:46:57,280 --> 00:47:00,279
Speaker 4: that haven't changed at all. The jokes might change, But

971
00:47:00,640 --> 00:47:03,319
Speaker 4: the thing about people, yeah, the references change and things

972
00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:05,319
Speaker 4: like that, but the but the way you treat the

973
00:47:05,360 --> 00:47:09,720
Speaker 4: references hasn't changed, and the way you perform it hasn't changed.

974
00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:12,480
Speaker 4: So I think people go there because they you know,

975
00:47:12,640 --> 00:47:14,399
Speaker 4: it's like and the sets are the same.

976
00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:17,280
Speaker 1: The sets as.

977
00:47:16,719 --> 00:47:19,200
Speaker 4: Exactly if you look at Wayne's world, I've seen that

978
00:47:19,239 --> 00:47:22,080
Speaker 4: set many times every living room. The people there, the

979
00:47:22,080 --> 00:47:25,920
Speaker 4: writers have a responsibility to be accurate and to be

980
00:47:26,719 --> 00:47:29,279
Speaker 4: well informed and to be you know, every once in

981
00:47:29,280 --> 00:47:31,560
Speaker 4: a while we make a mistake. But you know, it's

982
00:47:31,600 --> 00:47:35,799
Speaker 4: like Sarah Paleler they're wearing. The costumes are exactly what

983
00:47:35,840 --> 00:47:37,319
Speaker 4: they were the you know what I mean, if there

984
00:47:37,360 --> 00:47:39,719
Speaker 4: was a debate, everything is the way it's a and

985
00:47:39,760 --> 00:47:41,719
Speaker 4: the stuff you hear, you trust that it's not going

986
00:47:41,719 --> 00:47:44,120
Speaker 4: to be made up from whole cloth, that you can

987
00:47:44,200 --> 00:47:46,719
Speaker 4: learn something. You know. It's like watching Monty Python when

988
00:47:46,719 --> 00:47:49,000
Speaker 4: you're a kid and you'd go like, oh, there you go.

989
00:47:49,080 --> 00:47:51,160
Speaker 4: I know there's a reference about the Spanish Inquisition. I

990
00:47:51,200 --> 00:47:52,960
Speaker 4: know that they're telling the truth about that because I

991
00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:55,160
Speaker 4: trust them, and I think that's what it is. People

992
00:47:55,200 --> 00:47:57,759
Speaker 4: go there because they know it's a safe space to

993
00:47:57,880 --> 00:48:00,759
Speaker 4: see stuff that isn't going to be inaccurate.

994
00:48:01,200 --> 00:48:04,680
Speaker 1: Now there's a political season coming up, obviously, and you've

995
00:48:04,719 --> 00:48:09,000
Speaker 1: got you've already got a Trump James Austin Johnson is Trump. Obviously,

996
00:48:09,000 --> 00:48:10,239
Speaker 1: you have Maya who's agreed to.

997
00:48:10,239 --> 00:48:13,879
Speaker 4: Play, which makes everything better. She's gonna Yeah, that's gonna

998
00:48:13,880 --> 00:48:15,640
Speaker 4: be a big deal. I mean, it's also a great

999
00:48:15,719 --> 00:48:21,000
Speaker 4: thing of like Biden and Obama weren't as fun to

1000
00:48:21,080 --> 00:48:24,200
Speaker 4: watch as Clinton or you know what I mean. It's

1001
00:48:24,200 --> 00:48:26,839
Speaker 4: like there's not a good even if you're the best Bush, Yeah,

1002
00:48:26,880 --> 00:48:29,920
Speaker 4: exactly the best. You know, Will made that fun, you

1003
00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:32,560
Speaker 4: know what I mean, Like he's like, yeah, so good

1004
00:48:32,640 --> 00:48:36,000
Speaker 4: him and now and just there's something about Maya who

1005
00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:38,040
Speaker 4: can come out and do Kamala, who's like juts.

1006
00:48:38,080 --> 00:48:40,160
Speaker 1: And she's gonna come to New York periodically and do

1007
00:48:40,200 --> 00:48:42,320
Speaker 1: the show over time. She's not gonna be here for

1008
00:48:42,360 --> 00:48:44,479
Speaker 1: the whole season again.

1009
00:48:46,400 --> 00:48:48,759
Speaker 4: She's got kids. The kids are getting old. Favorite people

1010
00:48:48,800 --> 00:48:52,399
Speaker 4: on Earth, they are getting Yeah, pearls, they're all, they're

1011
00:48:52,440 --> 00:48:53,280
Speaker 4: all getting older.

1012
00:48:54,080 --> 00:48:56,120
Speaker 1: I mean, ninety nine percent of me now thinks she's

1013
00:48:56,160 --> 00:48:58,440
Speaker 1: gonna win after the debate, But there's still that one

1014
00:48:58,440 --> 00:49:01,960
Speaker 1: percent of me that's afraid theft and so forth right.

1015
00:49:01,680 --> 00:49:03,799
Speaker 4: And there's also that Yeah, nothing is for sure.

1016
00:49:03,880 --> 00:49:06,239
Speaker 1: But do you find because of people maybe tired of it,

1017
00:49:06,440 --> 00:49:09,200
Speaker 1: but he winds up winning somehow. You're not going to

1018
00:49:09,280 --> 00:49:10,520
Speaker 1: go with him week to week?

1019
00:49:10,600 --> 00:49:13,320
Speaker 4: Are you? I don't think so. It's just it's hard

1020
00:49:13,640 --> 00:49:16,520
Speaker 4: to do, right, it's done. It's just done. It's like

1021
00:49:16,680 --> 00:49:19,040
Speaker 4: it's just so he's the same, So the gags are

1022
00:49:19,040 --> 00:49:22,480
Speaker 4: the same. Yeah, it's very difficult to You have to

1023
00:49:22,520 --> 00:49:26,719
Speaker 4: get dig deeper and deeper and deeper, because you know,

1024
00:49:26,840 --> 00:49:29,800
Speaker 4: to half the stuff. You'd go, come on, the President

1025
00:49:29,840 --> 00:49:31,400
Speaker 4: of the United the ex president is not going to

1026
00:49:31,440 --> 00:49:33,680
Speaker 4: say that that Haitians eat dogs and cats. He's not

1027
00:49:33,719 --> 00:49:35,960
Speaker 4: going to do You can't do that, that's ridiculous, right,

1028
00:49:36,040 --> 00:49:38,440
Speaker 4: And then he does it, and then it's so beyond

1029
00:49:38,480 --> 00:49:42,279
Speaker 4: any comic thing that you can't think of what could

1030
00:49:42,320 --> 00:49:44,920
Speaker 4: you do that would be worse than what he did

1031
00:49:45,520 --> 00:49:47,680
Speaker 4: or funnier or crazier or whatever.

1032
00:49:47,760 --> 00:49:50,160
Speaker 1: But this lends me, This leads me to the conversation

1033
00:49:50,239 --> 00:49:53,840
Speaker 1: quickly about the film, the SNL film. So it's the

1034
00:49:53,840 --> 00:49:57,080
Speaker 1: first night, the first show, it's the evening there, and

1035
00:49:57,160 --> 00:49:59,879
Speaker 1: I think that my problem with films like that. Nothing

1036
00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:01,560
Speaker 1: against it. I mean I heard it's good and people

1037
00:50:01,560 --> 00:50:04,200
Speaker 1: have said all good things, but I don't necessarily lean

1038
00:50:04,239 --> 00:50:06,279
Speaker 1: into that kind of thing because I think about it's like,

1039
00:50:06,920 --> 00:50:09,279
Speaker 1: if you're going to be honest, it's almost like a reenactment.

1040
00:50:09,520 --> 00:50:11,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's hard. Even when you read books, it's like,

1041
00:50:11,360 --> 00:50:13,799
Speaker 4: and also everybody's as you've learned as you get older,

1042
00:50:13,840 --> 00:50:17,560
Speaker 4: everybody's truth is true to them. So you go like,

1043
00:50:17,640 --> 00:50:19,600
Speaker 4: I was there and that's what happened. I didn't remember

1044
00:50:19,600 --> 00:50:23,000
Speaker 4: that at all, and everybody's recollections are different and things

1045
00:50:23,040 --> 00:50:25,200
Speaker 4: like that, and you go like and also watching it

1046
00:50:25,239 --> 00:50:27,600
Speaker 4: will just feel like you're at work for an extra

1047
00:50:27,640 --> 00:50:28,200
Speaker 4: hour and a half.

1048
00:50:28,600 --> 00:50:31,040
Speaker 1: So let me just finish by saying, I want to

1049
00:50:31,080 --> 00:50:34,960
Speaker 1: settle an old, old piece of lore over there Saturday

1050
00:50:35,040 --> 00:50:38,279
Speaker 1: Night Live, and I'll let you finish this sentence. I

1051
00:50:38,360 --> 00:50:40,680
Speaker 1: was told by people over these years, now Low, these

1052
00:50:40,719 --> 00:50:44,680
Speaker 1: thirty years, that you have the biggest blank on the

1053
00:50:44,719 --> 00:50:48,800
Speaker 1: staff of SNL. You have the biggest blank. What is it?

1054
00:50:49,880 --> 00:50:56,440
Speaker 4: Office? Exactly? The office? No office? You got it? Enterprise.

1055
00:50:59,680 --> 00:50:59,919
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1056
00:51:00,840 --> 00:51:02,680
Speaker 4: Do you remember when you did Charles Nelson Riley on

1057
00:51:02,760 --> 00:51:04,959
Speaker 4: The Actors Student, Why can you believe that? With will?

1058
00:51:05,160 --> 00:51:07,040
Speaker 4: Oh my god, you played Lore?

1059
00:51:08,600 --> 00:51:11,120
Speaker 1: He goes and what I can't even remember those lines,

1060
00:51:11,120 --> 00:51:13,480
Speaker 1: but it was so funny when I'm on there and

1061
00:51:13,520 --> 00:51:16,799
Speaker 1: I see he said, hold your glasses between your thumb

1062
00:51:16,840 --> 00:51:19,239
Speaker 1: and your finger and just go like this and shake

1063
00:51:19,320 --> 00:51:23,399
Speaker 1: him like this, And I thought that was probably one

1064
00:51:23,400 --> 00:51:25,920
Speaker 1: of the most insane things I've ever done in my career, Like,

1065
00:51:26,160 --> 00:51:28,759
Speaker 1: who am I doing that? I want to thank you

1066
00:51:28,800 --> 00:51:31,080
Speaker 1: for all the memories you've given me, Charles Nelson Riley.

1067
00:51:31,440 --> 00:51:33,799
Speaker 1: I wrote that the guy that wipes his ass with

1068
00:51:33,880 --> 00:51:37,160
Speaker 1: a dog, wrote that he went on to be a

1069
00:51:37,160 --> 00:51:38,560
Speaker 1: big movie director, but.

1070
00:51:38,600 --> 00:51:41,399
Speaker 4: I remember where he started. Alec Bolbins wiping his ass

1071
00:51:41,400 --> 00:51:44,920
Speaker 4: with a dog. God bless him. I love you. I

1072
00:51:44,960 --> 00:51:46,000
Speaker 4: love you too.

1073
00:51:48,600 --> 00:51:53,080
Speaker 1: My thanks to author Susan Morrison and my friend Steve Higgins.

1074
00:51:53,600 --> 00:51:57,279
Speaker 1: Here's the Thing is recorded at CDM Studios in New

1075
00:51:57,360 --> 00:52:02,600
Speaker 1: York City. This episode was produced by Kathleen Russo, Zach MacNeice,

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Speaker 1: Maureen Hobn, and Victoria de Martin. Our engineer is Frank Imperial.

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Speaker 1: Our social media manager is Danielle Gingrich. I'm Alec Baldwin.

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Speaker 1: Here's the Thing is brought to you by iHeart Radio.