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Speaker 1: Dear listener.

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Speaker 2: Today's episode is a continuation of a story we started

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Speaker 2: telling last week. So if you haven't listened to that yet,

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Speaker 2: you really want to start there, Look for The Wrongful

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Speaker 2: Conviction of Joseph Webster episode one on the Latino USA

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Speaker 2: feed and then come back and listen to episode two.

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Speaker 3: I don't really understand how a person can put you

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Speaker 3: in prisons for so long without not even studying the

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Speaker 3: whole case. How can you glance over a case for

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Speaker 3: two or three months? You can say life since the

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Speaker 3: rest of my life. So what if you missed the

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Speaker 3: page that said something about me then? And you can

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Speaker 3: do see twenty thirty years before a person just flip

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Speaker 3: the page. Just look, Oh man, what's a man?

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Speaker 1: Mistake?

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Speaker 2: From Udromedia. It's Latin USA. I'm Maria in Josa today

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Speaker 2: The Wrongful Conviction of Joseph Webster episode two. In our

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Speaker 2: last episode, we met Joseph Webster. He's a black man

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Speaker 2: serving a life sentence in a Tennessee State prison for murder,

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Speaker 2: and he's been there since two thousand and five. Joseph

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Speaker 2: was charged with a cold case and was found guilty

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Speaker 2: of murdering a man named Lee Roy Owens. The problem is,

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Speaker 2: Joseph says he isn't the one who killed Leroy. He

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Speaker 2: says it was actually his older brother Kenny. But during

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Speaker 2: Joseph's trial he kept quiet, So.

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Speaker 4: You know, oh unders good.

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Speaker 2: More than a decade made later, another lawyer found plenty

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Speaker 2: of new evidence backing up Joseph's innocence, including a DNA test,

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Speaker 2: So the lawyer turned to the Conviction Review Unit. It's

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Speaker 2: a new initiative by the local District attorney's office that

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Speaker 2: aim to address potential cases of wrongful convictions in Nashville.

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Speaker 2: But prosecutors refused to consider Joseph's application. They said there

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Speaker 2: wasn't enough new evidence to warrant a reinvestigation.

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Speaker 5: Why mister Webster is in prison is a product of

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Speaker 5: a criminal justice system that is more concerned with finality

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Speaker 5: of convictions than the reliability of convictions.

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Speaker 2: So are these new conviction review units really making a difference.

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Speaker 2: The data tells us that Joseph's case isn't rare. There

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Speaker 2: are nearly twenty eight hundred people who were falsely accused

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Speaker 2: of crimes and later freed from prison over the last

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Speaker 2: three decades, and likely there are many more who are

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Speaker 2: still behind bars. These mistakes in the legal system have

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Speaker 2: life changing consequences, certainly for the people who unjustly spend

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Speaker 2: time in prison, but also for their families, who not

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Speaker 2: only lose their loved one, but then have to take

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Speaker 2: on the fight for their freedom. In Joseph's case, LeRoy's

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Speaker 2: murder and his wrongful conviction deeply fractured his entire family.

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Speaker 2: Producer Julia Martinelli is going to pick up the story

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Speaker 2: from here.

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Speaker 6: In twenty eighteen, Marie Burns, Joseph's mother, was desolate, heartbroken

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Speaker 6: that the Nashville Conviction Review Unit had refused to reinvestigate

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Speaker 6: her son's case. Joseph's wrongful conviction engulfed Marie's life. Every action,

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Speaker 6: every thought revolved around getting Joseph out of prison, and

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Speaker 6: she had really hoped that the conviction Review Unit would

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Speaker 6: finally right that wrong. Marie said it was hard enough

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Speaker 6: having a child in prison, unable to touch him, see him,

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Speaker 6: or talk to him whenever she needed his support. But

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Speaker 6: she was grieving a double loss and.

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Speaker 7: That's a hurd fear because I still got to love

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Speaker 7: my oldest Chap regardless what he's doing to my baby boy.

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Speaker 6: Marie had spent over a decade, torn between her love

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Speaker 6: for her two children, tormented by her belief that her

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Speaker 6: son Kenny had killed someone, but also by seeing him

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Speaker 6: allow his youngest brother, Joseph, to go to prison for

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Speaker 6: something that she says Kenny did. She also felt guilty

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Speaker 6: about her own decision to finally speak up against Kenny

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Speaker 6: to save her other child, Joseph. Family meant everything to Marie,

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Speaker 6: but what could she do.

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Speaker 4: I didn't think I had a child like that. I

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Speaker 4: didn't no, and it just missed me up. It missed

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Speaker 4: me up.

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Speaker 6: And then things only got harder for Marie. Her other son, Arthur,

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Speaker 6: her middle child in confid on all these years, was

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Speaker 6: murdered in a shooting in twenty eighteen. At the time,

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Speaker 6: there were no arrests. Arthur left behind four children. Marie

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Speaker 6: said she was grieving and she felt completely alone. She

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Speaker 6: wished that she could turn to Kenny, but they hadn't

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Speaker 6: spoken in years. When Kenny showed up at Arthur's funeral,

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Speaker 6: she said, Kenny didn't even look at her.

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Speaker 7: It just it untore all that hearts upon. And my

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Speaker 7: heart been hurting for seventeen years, and now it's hurt

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Speaker 7: again because my son got killed. So I just wish.

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Speaker 7: I know he got to go do the time because

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Speaker 7: he did a crime. But if he need me, I'm

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Speaker 7: still there for him.

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Speaker 4: Regardless.

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Speaker 6: Marie continue to take phone calls from Joseph in prison.

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Speaker 6: They mostly talked about life, his sons, his legal case,

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Speaker 6: never really about Kenny. But Marie told me since his

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Speaker 6: brother Arthur passed away, Joseph had been reflecting on his

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Speaker 6: relationship with Kenny.

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Speaker 7: Joseph, he's so heard about it, you know, but he

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Speaker 7: dealing with it, and he did. It's just tear them

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Speaker 7: up in the inside because he didn't think that Kenny

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Speaker 7: would ever do this to him, because he looked up

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Speaker 7: at Kenny. It's a big club, not off.

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Speaker 6: He looked up at Kenny, and Joseph even reached out

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Speaker 6: to Kenny from prison. It had been years since they spoke.

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Speaker 6: Kenny never visited.

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Speaker 7: I think Joseph talked to him one time on the

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Speaker 7: phone and asks him, you know, why he doing him

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Speaker 7: like that and stuff, and it was a big commotion.

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Speaker 7: Jones got the grind and Aunt got the phone. He

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Speaker 7: loved it. He still loved me, but he just can't

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Speaker 7: figuring him out. Why is he doing this to the family,

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Speaker 7: you know? Because it's not only her and Jels. It's

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Speaker 7: hurting me too.

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Speaker 1: You put your life on bold in a lot of ways.

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Speaker 7: I can't deal with a relationship because I'm missed with

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Speaker 7: and I don't want the other person miss but I.

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Speaker 4: Don't want to put out.

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Speaker 7: My burden among them, So relationship, it's just it's a

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Speaker 7: hurting thing.

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Speaker 6: Maarisa's The effects of Joseph's conviction and their decision to

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Speaker 6: not write out Kenny has left the family in ruins.

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Speaker 6: There used to be a close knit family. They'd get

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Speaker 6: together on the weekends and to celebrate the holidays, but

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Speaker 6: not anymore.

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Speaker 7: When we have family reunion and Christmas breakfast, I really

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Speaker 7: don't go because I felt like.

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Speaker 4: All of my children won now.

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Speaker 7: And kend it would be that with his wife and

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Speaker 7: his family, and it just took a hole outside of Maywey.

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Speaker 7: I didn't want to participate in No Mom because I

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Speaker 7: felt like I was missing a child.

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Speaker 6: I caught up with Joseph in early twenty nineteen. Joseph

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Speaker 6: and I never really got to talk much on the phone.

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Speaker 6: I never really knew when he would call me. One

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Speaker 6: thing I learned about him through those phone calls, though,

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Speaker 6: is that He's a really positive guy, always in a

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Speaker 6: good mood, never defeated. But on that day he told

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Speaker 6: me that he had been feeling worried. He said he

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Speaker 6: was not the only person in prison fighting to prove

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Speaker 6: their innocence, but none of them seemed to be making

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Speaker 6: any progress.

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Speaker 2: Hope, and and thing is just.

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Speaker 8: Making me confusion.

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Speaker 9: I won't have a.

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Speaker 10: Word about moneing this.

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Speaker 1: Are you getting your medication?

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Speaker 3: I'm getting it, but they're not giving me my diabetic sex.

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Speaker 1: You know how I give my full Hello.

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Speaker 6: The call dropped immediately after I asked if Joseph had

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Speaker 6: been getting his medication. Joseph is diabetic and has high

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Speaker 6: blood pressure, and every time they went on lockdown, he

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Speaker 6: says he struggled to get enough exercise or the healthy

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Speaker 6: food that he needed to keep his blood sugar in check.

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Speaker 6: Food is far from nutritious or enough. Many people like

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Speaker 6: Joseph depend on items bought on commissary to get by,

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Speaker 6: but the choices often aren't healthy or cheap. That's why

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Speaker 6: the state was supposed to provide Joseph with the necessary

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Speaker 6: diabetic friendly food that he needed to survive. Gaining weight

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Speaker 6: could mean more health complications. It's a vicious cycle. Joseph

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Speaker 6: grew up in a context where survival depended on a

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Speaker 6: dhering to certain codes. Don't snitch. Mind your business, family first.

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Speaker 6: Joseph truly believed that, and he did his part, sitting

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Speaker 6: on the stand, wanting nothing more than to go home,

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Speaker 6: but unwilling to say a word that might put his

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Speaker 6: brother in his place. And all around them those codes

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Speaker 6: also laid out. Marie was torn between her two children. Arthur,

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Speaker 6: the middle brother, was torn between his two siblings, Shiuana,

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Speaker 6: Kenny's girlfriend, wanted to help Joseph, possessed that she feared

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Speaker 6: that Kenny would kill her. Kenny, though he let his

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Speaker 6: brother take the fall for him, and Marie says, he

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Speaker 6: never fought very hard to.

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Speaker 1: Get him out.

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Speaker 6: This is something that I kept coming back to, this

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Speaker 6: idea of codes are brought it up to Ken, the

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Speaker 6: former cop turned detective who reinvestigated LeRoy's murder and found

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Speaker 6: new evidence.

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Speaker 11: I keep thinking about how many people you think so

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Speaker 11: they didn't tell the police, and you know, we were

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Speaker 11: a detective for a long time, and so can he

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Speaker 11: tell me a little bit about the sort of how

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Speaker 11: common this reluctance is to share information.

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Speaker 9: I think it's I think the reluctance to share information

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Speaker 9: with the authorities is quite common. I mean, I don't

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Speaker 9: think that that's a stretch of imagination for any part anybody.

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Speaker 9: You know, they that people just don't really. I guess

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Speaker 9: some people don't trust the police, or they don't want

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Speaker 9: to get involved, or they don't want to I don't

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Speaker 9: know what the reasoning is. I don't know why people

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Speaker 9: do what they did. And you know, the time to

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Speaker 9: stand up and say something would have been prior to trial,

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Speaker 9: but nobody did that, and as a result, Joseph got

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Speaker 9: convicted and he's been in prison ever since.

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Speaker 6: And maybe it is difficult to understand, particularly for someone

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Speaker 6: like Ken, who was a cop for thirty five years.

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Speaker 6: He was always on the other side. But as a

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Speaker 6: reporter once covering policing in Nashville, I wasn't blind to

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Speaker 6: the mistrust that some of the city's citizens had towards police.

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Speaker 6: In twenty sixteen, a report title Driving while Black showed

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Speaker 6: that black citizens in Nashville were disproportionately targeted, searched, and

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Speaker 6: charge arched by police, and up until twenty seventeen, the

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Speaker 6: Police Academy used the training manual that among other things,

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Speaker 6: included a passage that identified minorities as quote disproportionately associated

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Speaker 6: with crime and a threat to police. It was only

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Speaker 6: removed after media reported on the practice, followed by public uproar,

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Speaker 6: and Nashville has had a number of controversial police shootings

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Speaker 6: of black citizens in recent years, but this is in

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Speaker 6: particular to Nashville. In many places around the country, communities

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Speaker 6: where most citizens are not white have trust issues with

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Speaker 6: law enforcement. Last year, a PBS News Hour NPR poll

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Speaker 6: asked Americans whether they trusted the police. More than half

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Speaker 6: of all black Americans who replied said that they had

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Speaker 6: very little or no confidence in police to treat all

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Speaker 6: citizens the same, while overall only eighteen percent of all

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Speaker 6: people who responded share this view.

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Speaker 12: A few numbers that underscored the disparities here. More than

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Speaker 12: half of all people killed by police are black, according

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Speaker 12: to recent numbers, and one of every ten black men

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Speaker 12: in his thirties is in jail or prison in the

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Speaker 12: US on any given day.

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Speaker 6: A database maintained by the La Times reports that nearly

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Speaker 6: five hundred Latinos have been killed by police since the

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Speaker 6: year two thousand in LA County alone. Nationally, over one

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Speaker 6: thousand people identified as Hispanic or Latino have been killed

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Speaker 6: by police since twenty fifteen. These data exemplify the different

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Speaker 6: realities that communities of color experience in interactions with law enforcement.

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Speaker 6: As police involve killings of black Americans have come to

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Speaker 6: national attention more and more over the last decade. The

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Speaker 6: trust between communities of color and law enforcement continues to erode.

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Speaker 6: But even before the era where the media actively reported

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Speaker 6: on the killings of people like Michael Brown, Eric Garner,

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Speaker 6: Brianna Taylor, and George Floyd, among many others, this has

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Speaker 6: been a reality, albeit unreported, for black and brown Americans

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Speaker 6: for far longer. Of trust in police means cops are

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Speaker 6: seldom called when crimes occur in neighborhoods like Joseph's mining

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Speaker 6: our business and not turning to the justice system looking

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Speaker 6: for help becomes a safer option.

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Speaker 1: And Joseph knew this.

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Speaker 6: This is the world that he was brought up in,

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Speaker 6: and these codes they exist in law enforcement and the

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Speaker 6: justice system too. Ken Dyer, the detective found himself confronting

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Speaker 6: his own codes. It must have been difficult for you

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Speaker 6: to come out and say, I'm going to go ahead

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Speaker 6: and say that there was a you know, a mistake

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Speaker 6: made by the police department or the DA.

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Speaker 9: Yeah, yeah, it really was, because it's it's just not

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Speaker 9: what that's not what's supposed to happen there.

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Speaker 2: You know, you.

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Speaker 9: There was just too many there's too many questions.

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Speaker 6: Kan says Joseph's case hasn't shaken up his belief in

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Speaker 6: the justice system for the most part.

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Speaker 9: I guess, yeah, everybody tells you that our system's not perfect,

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Speaker 9: but it's probably the best one of going.

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Speaker 1: Can go silent.

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Speaker 6: He looks out of the window for a minute before

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Speaker 6: he continues, and I guess.

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Speaker 9: Everyone thinks that unless they're the ones that end bars.

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Speaker 6: These unspoken and sometimes unconscious codes and biases can get

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Speaker 6: in the way of justice. That's what Daniel Horrerz, Joseph's lawyer,

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Speaker 6: told the Conviction Review Unit, shortly after rejecting Joseph's case.

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Speaker 5: There is simply no doubt in my mind that the

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Speaker 5: police and the District Attorney's office got this one wrong.

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Speaker 5: I think it is impossible to believe that there has

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Speaker 5: never been a wrongful murder conviction in Nashville ever. But

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Speaker 5: the fact of the matter is, we have never remedied

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Speaker 5: a wrong conviction in Nashville. There is a disconnect there,

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Speaker 5: and there's a reason for it.

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Speaker 6: There should still be fail saves in the system, Daniel said,

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Speaker 6: And if the CRUs were invented for that purpose and

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Speaker 6: they also failed to address it wrong, then maybe they're

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Speaker 6: not working.

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Speaker 1: US intended.

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Speaker 2: Coming up on latin US say we take a deeper

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Speaker 2: look at conviction review units, what's working and what isn't

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Speaker 2: And then, in a surprise turn, the Nashville CRU announces

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Speaker 2: a major change. Stay with US notes, Hey, we're back

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Speaker 2: before the break. Joseph Webster, a man who claimed to

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Speaker 2: be wrongfully convicted of murder, had hoped that a new

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Speaker 2: unit at the Nashville Prosecutor's office would reopen his case,

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Speaker 2: but the CRU refused, so his lawyer took the fight.

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Speaker 2: Public producer Guliata Martinelli picks it up from here.

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Speaker 1: Nashville.

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Speaker 6: The Conviction Review Unit was made up of seven prosecutors,

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Speaker 6: each working within the District Attorney's office.

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Speaker 1: The review unit worked as.

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Speaker 6: A panel, needing to reach a consensus by the members

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Speaker 6: on what cases to recommend for investigation. Daniel pointed out

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Speaker 6: that one of the prosecutors on the CRU staff was

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Speaker 6: the same person who prosecuted Joseph's case in two thousand

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Speaker 6: and five.

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Speaker 5: The district attorney that's responsible for mister Webster's prosecution ostensibly

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Speaker 5: at least was recused from any consideration of mister Webster's case. Nonetheless,

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Speaker 5: I think it's fair to at least wonder, you know,

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Speaker 5: what kinds of conflicts go on within a DA's office

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Speaker 5: when you have, you know, some of your colleagues looking

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Speaker 5: over your own convictions, and same as true of the

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Speaker 5: investigators that you use.

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Speaker 6: And that kind of comes with the territory. Because these

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Speaker 6: review units are created voluntarily by district attorney's offices, by design,

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Speaker 6: they have to involve prosecutors, and there's some benefits to

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Speaker 6: that too. Prosecutors have access to the entire files and

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Speaker 6: history of a case, They have relationships with police and investigators,

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Speaker 6: and the backing of the state if they choose to

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Speaker 6: reinvestigate a case or even decide to vacate a case.

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Speaker 6: But how prosecutors play into the CRU process varies. Because

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Speaker 6: CRUs are still new, there really isn't a single model

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Speaker 6: followed by units across the country, and because of those differences,

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Speaker 6: it can be challenging for experts to say whether as

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Speaker 6: a whole, CRUs are ultimately working at optimum standards. There

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Speaker 6: are currently just eighty two CRUs across the US, compared

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Speaker 6: to more than two thousand district attorney's offices. While the

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Speaker 6: first CRUs were established more than a decade ago in

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Speaker 6: Santa Clara, California and Dallas, Texas, most of the units

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Speaker 6: have been created in the last few years. Of those

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Speaker 6: eighty two units that are currently up and running, less

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Speaker 6: than half have developed any xonerations so far.

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Speaker 13: And you know, some are more effective than others, right,

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Speaker 13: And it depends a lot on how many resources they

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Speaker 13: you know, what kind of resources do they put behind it,

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Speaker 13: how much independence does it have, who do they staff

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Speaker 13: it with.

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Speaker 6: That's Barbara O'Brien from the National Registry of Exonerations.

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Speaker 13: So there's a lot of factors that can go into

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Speaker 13: sort of, you know, how productive a conviction integrity unit is.

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Speaker 13: It's hard to judge them. There's some apples and oranges.

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Speaker 6: The Registry tracks every exoneration across the country, and she adds,

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Speaker 6: for the most part, there are some telltale signs of

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Speaker 6: a unit that's more likely to be receptive to potential

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Speaker 6: innocence claims.

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Speaker 13: I think that the most successful cius A point someone

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Speaker 13: in charge who has either they have a history of

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Speaker 13: being a defense attorney, right they haven't made their career

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Speaker 13: as a prosecutor. I really do think that fresh perspective

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Speaker 13: is very important.

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Speaker 6: Barbara acknowledges that in having prosecutors oversee the work of

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Speaker 6: their own colleagues can lead to bias, even if that

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Speaker 6: bias is unconscious.

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Speaker 13: I think the same kinds of human biases are at

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Speaker 13: work that you know, you don't go after your own,

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Speaker 13: you take care of your own, you protect your own,

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Speaker 13: and you know you're in a tough job and it's

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Speaker 13: us against them. I think that would be really hard

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Speaker 13: to overcome, which is why I think it's so important

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Speaker 13: for CIUS to have somebody who is independent.

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Speaker 6: Barbara says, our biases are very much shaped by the

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Speaker 6: world we live in. By practice, prosecutors look for signs

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Speaker 6: of guilt. Defense attorneys are trained to look for innocence.

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Speaker 6: What's undeniable is that some CRUs are releasing way more

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Speaker 6: people than others. One of the most successful models is

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Speaker 6: in Wayne County, Michigan.

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Speaker 13: So they opened in twenty eighteen and they have already

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Speaker 13: had twenty six exonerations. Reporters will ask me, you know, oh,

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Speaker 13: you know this, this place has a lot of exonerations,

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Speaker 13: so they must have a lot of problems there. It's like, well, yeah,

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Speaker 13: but you look at another place that doesn't have a

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Speaker 13: lot of exoners. You don't know. If they don't have

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Speaker 13: the problems, they just may not be looking hard enough

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Speaker 13: of the cases.

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Speaker 6: Barbara ads that not all CRUs will be able to

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Speaker 6: have the ideal setup, and a lot of that goes

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Speaker 6: back to the budget and how many resources are actually

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Speaker 6: available in a district attorney's office. And even with the

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Speaker 6: most ideal setup, Barbara ads that it's important to keep

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Speaker 6: in mind the CRUs can't solve all these problems in

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Speaker 6: the system alone. While there has been an increase in

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Speaker 6: exonerations in recent years and also a growing number of CRUs,

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Speaker 6: she says access to legal representation is just as important.

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Speaker 13: But there's also been I think less dramatic, but also

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Speaker 13: very important increase in the number of innocence organizations right,

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Speaker 13: so that includes things like the Innocence Project or often

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Speaker 13: law schools will have an innocence clinic where they can

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Speaker 13: take cases as part of how they train the law students.

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Speaker 13: That can be the lifeline for people who have an

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Speaker 13: innocence claim, because there's only so much you can do

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Speaker 13: from a print. You can be the most motivated, wrongly

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Speaker 13: convicted person in the world, but it's hard if you

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Speaker 13: can't get out to interview the witnesses. You need help

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Speaker 13: on the outside.

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Speaker 6: The most important thing to remember is the numbers we

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Speaker 6: have now are off. They don't reflect how big the

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Speaker 6: universe of false convictions really is.

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Speaker 13: If you look at exonerations, you think that all our

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Speaker 13: wrongful convictions take place in murders and rapes and predominantly

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Speaker 13: and very serious cases. But the reality is those are

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Speaker 13: the cases that end in exonerations. How we have absolutely

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Speaker 13: no idea how many people were convicted of a less

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Speaker 13: serious felony or even a misdemeanor, and no one's going

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Speaker 13: to No innocence project is going to take that case.

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Speaker 13: They're swamped as it is with serious cases. So we

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Speaker 13: actually have no idea what the scope of this problem is.

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Speaker 6: As a consequence, this imperfect system leaves innocent people sitting

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Speaker 6: behind bars, sometimes for decades. In Nashville, Daniel Horwitz continue

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Speaker 6: to fight for his client Joseph Webster, to not be

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Speaker 6: one of those people in twenty eighteen, I started reporting

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Speaker 6: on Joseph's case and the CRU's denial. I had been

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Speaker 6: reaching out to the District Attorney's office for months, asking

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Speaker 6: about why Joseph's petition to reinvestigate his case had been denied,

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Speaker 6: and requesting data on how many cases the unit had

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Speaker 6: agreed to reinvestigate since it was established. The answer was none,

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Speaker 6: and eventually, in January twenty nineteen, I was ready to

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Speaker 6: publish a story. My editor called the District Attorney's office

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Speaker 6: one last time. That evening, I was asked to go

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Speaker 6: to the DA's office in person. I didn't know what

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Speaker 6: was going on, just that the District Attorney wanted to

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Speaker 6: meet with me. When I walked in, I was invited

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Speaker 6: into a conference room where I met with the District Attorney,

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Speaker 6: Glenn Funk, and the head of the CRU, Robert Jones,

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Speaker 6: and they told me they had been quietly working on

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Speaker 6: making some changes. They set the setup of the CRU,

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Speaker 6: where a panel of prosecutors have to agree on what

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Speaker 6: cases to reinvestigate, was too complicated, and they had been

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Speaker 6: redesigning how the CRO would work moving forward. Starting the

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Speaker 6: next day, one person, the head of the CRU, would

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Speaker 6: be in charge of deciding whether to reinvestigate a case.

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Speaker 6: This was the decision he would make on his own.

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Speaker 6: The panel of prosecutors no longer would need to come

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Speaker 6: to an agreement, and I reported about it for Nashville

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Speaker 6: Public Radio. The original denial of Webster's application led to

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Speaker 6: some soul searching.

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Speaker 14: This is the first one that we've got to this point,

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Speaker 14: so it brought to light changes that we thought needed.

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Speaker 4: To be made.

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Speaker 6: That's Robert Jones, who leads the Conviction Review Unit.

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Speaker 4: All of the units are like us, they're evolving.

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Speaker 9: This is an evolution of the criminal justice system.

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Speaker 6: And the head of the CRU had more news. He

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Speaker 6: told me he was giving Joseph's application a second look.

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Speaker 6: Less than two weeks later, the CRU announced that they

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Speaker 6: were officially moving forward with reinvestigating Joseph's case, the moment

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Speaker 6: Joseph and his family had been waiting for for almost

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Speaker 6: fifteen years. Joseph would finally get a real chance to

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Speaker 6: fight for his freedom. When Marie found out that the

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Speaker 6: Conviction Review Unit had reversed his decision and was going

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Speaker 6: to reinvestigate the case, she was in tears.

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Speaker 4: It just took a.

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Speaker 7: Whole loss out of him, a whole los but me

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Speaker 7: and my son we had faith. We pray the gel

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Speaker 7: what we tell.

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Speaker 4: And I just kept praying, praying, pray.

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Speaker 6: She told me she was happy, but I could see

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Speaker 6: she was holding back. Marie told me she's been disappointed before,

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Speaker 6: every appeal, every hearing.

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Speaker 1: She always hoped he would come home.

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Speaker 4: When he get it here and I could see him

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Speaker 4: and touch him. That's what I know.

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Speaker 7: Everything's okay, it's all right.

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Speaker 4: We made it.

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Speaker 1: For now.

442
00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:29,639
Speaker 6: Marie was careful, she was guarded. There was no sense

443
00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:31,359
Speaker 6: of how long it could take to get an answer

444
00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:35,480
Speaker 6: about Joseph's case. Investigations can take months or even years,

445
00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:38,520
Speaker 6: and this was the first case the CIERO in Nashville

446
00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:42,000
Speaker 6: had ever agreed to reinvestigate. But at least now there

447
00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:45,240
Speaker 6: was a real chance. The family once again was asked

448
00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:48,640
Speaker 6: to wait and trust the system. But that trust was

449
00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:51,080
Speaker 6: hard after so many disappointments.

450
00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:53,600
Speaker 7: You know, I went out of these people's sleep at

451
00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:58,600
Speaker 7: night and you got to endosome man in Parilson for

452
00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:03,440
Speaker 7: the rest of his life. But you outwalking, you out

453
00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:08,120
Speaker 7: with your family and you're doing things, and you know

454
00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:12,920
Speaker 7: this man answer, but you still got him sitting somewhere

455
00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:18,400
Speaker 7: where he ain't supposed to be and that makes me

456
00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:24,280
Speaker 7: feel like, you know, I'm just gonna put it like this.

457
00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:30,440
Speaker 7: Black man's don't have a chance. They don't black mans

458
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:34,600
Speaker 7: don't have a chance. They take their life away from them,

459
00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:39,920
Speaker 7: you know, for something they didn't do, and they don't

460
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:44,000
Speaker 7: have a chance. It seemed like these people would not.

461
00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:44,760
Speaker 4: Let us go.

462
00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:50,120
Speaker 6: Maurice says fighting Joseph's conviction has taken everything from her,

463
00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:54,600
Speaker 6: her health, her peace of mind, even her home. When

464
00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:57,720
Speaker 6: Joseph was first convicted, she says she didn't have the

465
00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:00,080
Speaker 6: twenty thousand dollars that his lawyer at the time I

466
00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:02,840
Speaker 6: was charging up front, so she put up the deed

467
00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:05,840
Speaker 6: of her home. She and Kenny were supposed to split

468
00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:08,760
Speaker 6: the bill, but Marie says Kenny didn't do his part

469
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:11,240
Speaker 6: and the lawyer wouldn't work with her to give her

470
00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:13,640
Speaker 6: more time to get the rest of the money. She

471
00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:17,400
Speaker 6: says he came for her house. Marie worked hard, and

472
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:19,720
Speaker 6: eventually she was able to get back on her feet

473
00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:22,800
Speaker 6: and get a new home. She says she's long carried

474
00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:28,360
Speaker 6: this distrust for prosecutors, detectives, Joseph's first lawyer, the judge

475
00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:31,840
Speaker 6: that sentenced him. She tried not to be angry, but

476
00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:33,240
Speaker 6: she thought about them often.

477
00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:52,240
Speaker 1: The process was long.

478
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:55,640
Speaker 6: Eventually I moved to another city and took another job.

479
00:30:56,280 --> 00:30:58,360
Speaker 6: Every six months or so, I checked in with the

480
00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:02,160
Speaker 6: District Attorney's office for up dates on Joseph's case. Joseph

481
00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:10,440
Speaker 6: didn't call me often. Everyone was just waiting. In August

482
00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:14,160
Speaker 6: twenty twenty, there was a new announcement. The CRU had

483
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:17,920
Speaker 6: made yet another change. Robert Jones, the founder and head

484
00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:21,040
Speaker 6: of the review unit, was retiring, and he was passing

485
00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:24,040
Speaker 6: the reins to a woman named Sonny Eaton, a former

486
00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:25,000
Speaker 6: defense attorney.

487
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:27,240
Speaker 15: I knew that I wanted a seat at the table.

488
00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:29,920
Speaker 15: I knew that I had a voice and experience to offer,

489
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:33,080
Speaker 15: but I wasn't exactly sure how to go about that.

490
00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:38,400
Speaker 15: Criminal defense lawyers make a huge impact on individuals, but

491
00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:41,120
Speaker 15: as far as systemic change, it can be really a

492
00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:42,080
Speaker 15: frustrating job.

493
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:45,800
Speaker 6: Sonny says she debated taking the job, but she believed

494
00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:48,840
Speaker 6: that the District Attorney's office really had good intentions in

495
00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:52,080
Speaker 6: setting up the CRU and they wanted to make a difference.

496
00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:54,360
Speaker 6: That convinced her to take a chance.

497
00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:57,080
Speaker 15: But I'm also a firm believer that if you want

498
00:31:57,120 --> 00:32:01,000
Speaker 15: to make a neighborhood better you live in it, and

499
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:04,480
Speaker 15: I think it is very easy to be critical from

500
00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:08,160
Speaker 15: afar and not be willing to get into the trenches

501
00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:12,440
Speaker 15: and have the hard conversations. I think that it is

502
00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:16,160
Speaker 15: important that both sides of the courtroom spend time on

503
00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:18,880
Speaker 15: the other side, and I think that's where we will

504
00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:20,000
Speaker 15: really see change happen.

505
00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:22,840
Speaker 6: Sunny is wary of being critical of the work that

506
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:27,040
Speaker 6: the CRU did. Compared to our justice system, CRUs are

507
00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:29,560
Speaker 6: just at their infancy. She says, a lot of what

508
00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:33,040
Speaker 6: they're doing is simply trial and error. After all, the

509
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:36,840
Speaker 6: National CRU did eventually change its mind about Joseph's case.

510
00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:40,120
Speaker 15: So one thing that we take very seriously is that

511
00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:43,520
Speaker 15: the original prosecutor and the original detectives who worked on

512
00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:47,960
Speaker 15: a case are not involved in a CRU investigation other

513
00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:52,800
Speaker 15: than to provide fact based information. That is the only

514
00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:53,960
Speaker 15: way they're involved.

515
00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:58,760
Speaker 6: Establishing some separation between the review unit and the prosecutors

516
00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:02,400
Speaker 6: was also important, including a physical separation.

517
00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:05,280
Speaker 15: So in my case, my office is on a different

518
00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:08,680
Speaker 15: floor than the majority of the prosecuting staff. You know,

519
00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:10,280
Speaker 15: I'm allowed to do quite a bit of work and

520
00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:12,680
Speaker 15: a lot of my investigation takes place outside of the

521
00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:17,240
Speaker 15: office altogether. I requested and have been given the opportunity

522
00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:19,960
Speaker 15: to choose which investigators in the office I work with

523
00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:23,520
Speaker 15: for different cases, because you know, you think about any

524
00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:26,239
Speaker 15: DA's office. A lot of investigators within the office are

525
00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:30,760
Speaker 15: former police detectives, which makes them very effective at their jobs,

526
00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:33,640
Speaker 15: but also means that we have our own biases and

527
00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:38,040
Speaker 15: track records and relationships that we have to to work with.

528
00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:39,760
Speaker 15: And I need to know that I have an investigator

529
00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:41,320
Speaker 15: who knows how to look for innocence.

530
00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:45,480
Speaker 6: Well Sonny now retains the sole decision making role in

531
00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:49,120
Speaker 6: determining whether to reinvestigate a case. She says there's also

532
00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:52,240
Speaker 6: a risk in that isolation. So the unit has found

533
00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:55,040
Speaker 6: a way to incorporate a peer review of sorts when

534
00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:59,239
Speaker 6: an investigation is near a final stage. Those members are

535
00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:02,360
Speaker 6: selected by the District Attorney General Glenn Funk, and the

536
00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:03,840
Speaker 6: head of the cru.

537
00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:08,680
Speaker 15: We form a review panel and essentially General Funk and

538
00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:12,520
Speaker 15: I work together to identify some members of the office.

539
00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:15,880
Speaker 15: There might be outside members of the legal community involved

540
00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:19,520
Speaker 15: in that process as well, who will then review my

541
00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:23,959
Speaker 15: work and ask questions and see if they think there's

542
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:26,560
Speaker 15: more information that they need in order to weigh in

543
00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:28,719
Speaker 15: or things that are missing in my investigation.

544
00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:31,799
Speaker 6: In the end, the district attorney is still the one

545
00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:35,200
Speaker 6: making the final decision on whether they will exonerate a person,

546
00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:37,680
Speaker 6: and she adds that her new role on the other

547
00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:40,600
Speaker 6: side of the legal system has taught her some lessons.

548
00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:44,160
Speaker 6: She says it's important to arm dcrius with the tools

549
00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:47,240
Speaker 6: and the support that they need, but she also says

550
00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:50,920
Speaker 6: there needs to be a wider consensus across society so

551
00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:53,160
Speaker 6: that prosecutors can admit fault.

552
00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:54,560
Speaker 1: And I don't know.

553
00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:58,200
Speaker 15: How we ever get to effective criminal reform, How we

554
00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:03,040
Speaker 15: ever get to a place where fixing mistakes is the

555
00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:06,600
Speaker 15: norm and is expected if we don't create safe spaces

556
00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:10,360
Speaker 15: for that to happen. A prosecutor who made one mistake

557
00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:14,480
Speaker 15: on one case out of the thousands that they prosecute

558
00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:16,920
Speaker 15: in their career does not mean this as a terrible

559
00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:20,200
Speaker 15: person or that they weren't good at their job. Wrongful

560
00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:25,759
Speaker 15: convictions do not just happen because of intentional misconduct. They

561
00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:29,440
Speaker 15: happen because we are in a human system. This is

562
00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:32,400
Speaker 15: a system made up of human beings on all sides

563
00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:37,719
Speaker 15: of this. Human beings are not infallible. Ever, Ever, I

564
00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:41,080
Speaker 15: push back on this statement. After all, these mistakes have

565
00:35:41,239 --> 00:35:45,319
Speaker 15: long term consequences. They can lead to the destruction of

566
00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:49,520
Speaker 15: people's entire lives. In no way do I think that

567
00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:53,279
Speaker 15: misconduct hasn't happened. That would be the most dishonest thing

568
00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:56,400
Speaker 15: that I could say. Of course, it happens. We know

569
00:35:56,520 --> 00:35:59,120
Speaker 15: that it is one of the top five factors in

570
00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:03,279
Speaker 15: wrongful conviction. Research and statistics have shown us that it

571
00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:06,920
Speaker 15: does happen. Just because I, in my eight months, haven't

572
00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:09,000
Speaker 15: found it yet on a case that I'm working on

573
00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:10,920
Speaker 15: doesn't mean that I don't think I'm going to find it.

574
00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:13,600
Speaker 15: I absolutely think I'll find it and it will go

575
00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:16,840
Speaker 15: into my report. We cannot get better if we do

576
00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:18,400
Speaker 15: not tell the truth, period.

577
00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:24,640
Speaker 6: And in November twenty twenty, nearly two years after the

578
00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:29,959
Speaker 6: cru began reinvestigating Joseph's case, the CRU now under Sunny's Helm,

579
00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:33,880
Speaker 6: called out its mistake. They asked the judge to vacate

580
00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:38,440
Speaker 6: Joseph's sentence. Joseph Webster was finally going home.

581
00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:49,400
Speaker 2: Coming up on Latino, USA. We witnessed the moment Joseph

582
00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:53,200
Speaker 2: and his family had been waiting for for almost fifteen years,

583
00:36:53,800 --> 00:37:52,279
Speaker 2: Joseph walking out of prison, stay with us, say yes, hey,

584
00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:57,240
Speaker 2: we're back and before the break. After nearly two years

585
00:37:57,320 --> 00:38:02,200
Speaker 2: of reinvestigating Joseph's case, the the Nashville Conviction Review Unit

586
00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:07,200
Speaker 2: has asked a judge to vacate Joseph's sentence. He's finally

587
00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:10,880
Speaker 2: going home after almost fifteen years in prison for a

588
00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:15,120
Speaker 2: murder he didn't commit. Producer Julieta Martinelli picks it up

589
00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:15,600
Speaker 2: from here.

590
00:38:16,680 --> 00:38:20,200
Speaker 6: I arrived in Tennessee on November ninth, twenty twenty. The

591
00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:23,320
Speaker 6: next day, Joseph had a hearing. His family was hopeful

592
00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:26,000
Speaker 6: he would get to come home. I arrived in the

593
00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:29,480
Speaker 6: courthouse at nine am and the hearing was just under way.

594
00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:33,560
Speaker 6: The court room was packed full of reporters outside. The

595
00:38:33,640 --> 00:38:37,320
Speaker 6: prosecutors asked the judge to vacate Joseph's sentence.

596
00:38:37,600 --> 00:38:40,280
Speaker 15: And Sir, at this point, the state has fully lost

597
00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:42,880
Speaker 15: confidence in the conviction of mister Webster, and we believe

598
00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:46,200
Speaker 15: that vacation of the conviction is the appropriate remedy.

599
00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:50,480
Speaker 6: Everyone expected Joseph would be released immediately, but there was

600
00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:53,879
Speaker 6: some disappointing news from the judge. He said Joseph would

601
00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:56,120
Speaker 6: be sent back to prison for a few more days

602
00:38:56,239 --> 00:38:59,960
Speaker 6: while his paperwork was completed. His lawyer, Daniels, spoke to

603
00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:02,280
Speaker 6: a huddle of reporters outside the courtroom.

604
00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:04,600
Speaker 5: I can tell you that these are going to be

605
00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:07,040
Speaker 5: the longest days of the case for me. I cannot

606
00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:10,560
Speaker 5: even imagine how much longer they feel to mister Webster,

607
00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:14,080
Speaker 5: who has been in prison for a decade and a

608
00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:18,160
Speaker 5: half for this crime, which everybody agrees now he did

609
00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:21,960
Speaker 5: not commit. Certainly, we were hoping that he would be

610
00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:22,600
Speaker 5: home today.

611
00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:26,719
Speaker 6: That morning, Joseph's mom, Marie had invited me to celebrate

612
00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:30,280
Speaker 6: his release. I showed up at the house after the hearing. Anyway,

613
00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:35,880
Speaker 6: it was quiet in the kitchen. The stove was filled

614
00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:39,759
Speaker 6: with steaming pots. There were big aluminum trays on the counters.

615
00:39:40,200 --> 00:39:43,480
Speaker 6: Marie was there with Schawana Norman, who was keeping her company.

616
00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:47,120
Speaker 6: Shiuana was Kenny's ex girlfriend, the one who had provided

617
00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:51,400
Speaker 6: valuable information at Joseph's lawyer incriminating Kenny and LeRoy's murder.

618
00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:54,800
Speaker 6: She told me Joseph's mom had been cooking for two days.

619
00:39:55,239 --> 00:39:58,960
Speaker 6: She made all of his favorite foods, collared greens, chicken,

620
00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:03,160
Speaker 6: corn bread, the creamiest mac and cheese. The menu options

621
00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:06,480
Speaker 6: were endless, and now they were cold.

622
00:40:06,719 --> 00:40:10,040
Speaker 7: I had cooked whatever he wanted. That's what I cooked

623
00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:13,319
Speaker 7: for him, and then I get this bad news that

624
00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:18,040
Speaker 7: he's not coming home for two or three days. Why,

625
00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:19,640
Speaker 7: that's what I want to know.

626
00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:20,080
Speaker 4: Why.

627
00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:23,440
Speaker 6: Marie was so upset. She told me she was done talking.

628
00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:24,520
Speaker 1: She cried.

629
00:40:25,080 --> 00:40:27,479
Speaker 6: I sat in the living room across from her, next

630
00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:29,600
Speaker 6: to Srijuana in silence for a while.

631
00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:34,080
Speaker 16: Everybody had anticipated him coming home today, but I guess

632
00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:38,160
Speaker 16: the judge had other plans. But what about Joseph's family.

633
00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:42,000
Speaker 16: Joseph's been gone for years, He's missed his kids growing

634
00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:44,759
Speaker 16: up and everything for a crime he didn't commit. When

635
00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:47,359
Speaker 16: does he's also a victim, So when do you get

636
00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:51,560
Speaker 16: start caring about him and what he's gone through Because

637
00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:55,000
Speaker 16: there's no way to get back the almost twenty years

638
00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:56,280
Speaker 16: that he's been incarcerated.

639
00:40:57,040 --> 00:41:00,000
Speaker 6: Chiwana said that after all this time, it felt like, yeah,

640
00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:01,640
Speaker 6: another slap in the face.

641
00:41:02,239 --> 00:41:05,879
Speaker 16: We really don't matter. We really don't matter. And I'll

642
00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:07,960
Speaker 16: tell anybody the hands of just the skills of jests

643
00:41:08,040 --> 00:41:08,680
Speaker 16: are not equal.

644
00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:11,080
Speaker 6: When it was time to head back to my hotel,

645
00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:13,520
Speaker 6: I left with a huge plate of food covered in

646
00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:17,560
Speaker 6: aluminum foil in the passenger seat of my car. Marie

647
00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:20,400
Speaker 6: is a mom after all, and she told me sternly

648
00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:29,239
Speaker 6: that my plans to eat room service were unacceptable. A

649
00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:31,839
Speaker 6: few hours later, I got a text from Joseph's son.

650
00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:35,040
Speaker 6: He told me to come down to the county jail immediately.

651
00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:37,960
Speaker 6: There had been a change and Joseph was going to

652
00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:41,640
Speaker 6: come home today after all. Outside the county jail, the

653
00:41:41,680 --> 00:41:44,400
Speaker 6: first person I saw was Daniel, his lawyer.

654
00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:47,200
Speaker 5: He is on the way to be processed out of

655
00:41:47,239 --> 00:41:50,719
Speaker 5: the jail, and we will greet him and give him,

656
00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:53,879
Speaker 5: you know, a fresh change of clothes and send him

657
00:41:53,880 --> 00:41:54,520
Speaker 5: home to his mom.

658
00:41:55,160 --> 00:41:56,400
Speaker 1: How did that feel for you?

659
00:41:57,120 --> 00:42:01,919
Speaker 5: It's it's hard to describe. I think I more relieved

660
00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:08,239
Speaker 5: than anything. I have been optimistically conveying updates to mister

661
00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:12,080
Speaker 5: Webster for a long time, and some of the updates

662
00:42:12,120 --> 00:42:14,680
Speaker 5: that I conveyed to him were too optimistic, and I

663
00:42:14,719 --> 00:42:17,440
Speaker 5: have felt terrible about that when that has happened. So

664
00:42:17,880 --> 00:42:22,360
Speaker 5: the fact that I didn't, I didn't have to disappoint

665
00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:27,520
Speaker 5: him again, it gives me more relief than anything else.

666
00:42:27,560 --> 00:42:30,239
Speaker 5: I'm obviously very very happy for him.

667
00:42:30,840 --> 00:42:33,840
Speaker 6: Daniel said that over the last two years, the cru

668
00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:36,960
Speaker 6: did a more thorough investigation than he could have imagined,

669
00:42:37,400 --> 00:42:40,080
Speaker 6: and he added that they didn't find any evidence of

670
00:42:40,080 --> 00:42:45,080
Speaker 6: official misconduct after reviewing the ci used findings. Daniel says

671
00:42:45,080 --> 00:42:48,600
Speaker 6: he agrees. The lawyer said that the prosecutor's office still

672
00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:52,480
Speaker 6: has another important job to do, identifying and charging the

673
00:42:52,520 --> 00:42:56,040
Speaker 6: person who did commit the crime and bringing some justice

674
00:42:56,120 --> 00:42:59,759
Speaker 6: to LeRoy's family. So far, the prosecutor's office has not

675
00:42:59,840 --> 00:43:06,040
Speaker 6: been any announcements on the case. Outside the jail, I

676
00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:10,000
Speaker 6: waited with Joseph's family as news crews arrived, and eventually

677
00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:13,920
Speaker 6: more people to old friends, neighbors, everyone came out to

678
00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:18,319
Speaker 6: greet Joseph. Ken Dyer, the investigator, was also there. He

679
00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:20,600
Speaker 6: was wearing a really nice suit, and he told me

680
00:43:20,640 --> 00:43:23,920
Speaker 6: that he's no longer an investigator. He recently passed the

681
00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:27,040
Speaker 6: bar exam and is now a criminal defense lawyer.

682
00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:29,560
Speaker 10: Well, I've always wanted to do the right thing. And

683
00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:31,960
Speaker 10: whether you're doing the right thing as a prosecutor, a

684
00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:37,280
Speaker 10: police officer, a fireman, defense attorney, or for making sandwiches

685
00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:39,640
Speaker 10: at subway, if you're doing the right thing and you're

686
00:43:39,680 --> 00:43:41,759
Speaker 10: doing the best that you can do, you should feel

687
00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:44,400
Speaker 10: good about yourself. And I feel good about myself on

688
00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:46,120
Speaker 10: this and I feel good about.

689
00:43:46,520 --> 00:43:49,800
Speaker 6: The former head of the cru Robert Jones, was also there.

690
00:43:50,239 --> 00:43:52,400
Speaker 6: He was the person who asked for Joseph's case to

691
00:43:52,440 --> 00:43:56,560
Speaker 6: be reinvestigated. He had already retired, and he was standing

692
00:43:56,560 --> 00:44:00,279
Speaker 6: there quietly off to the side. There was laughter and

693
00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:04,960
Speaker 6: loud conversation. Everyone was so happy. The process was long.

694
00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:07,640
Speaker 6: No one really knew what we were waiting for, but

695
00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:10,719
Speaker 6: we were there for hours. I finally got a chance

696
00:44:10,760 --> 00:44:13,359
Speaker 6: to catch up with Joseph's kids. One of them flew

697
00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:15,840
Speaker 6: out from Los Angeles where he lives at the last

698
00:44:15,920 --> 00:44:17,240
Speaker 6: minute to be in Nashville.

699
00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:21,000
Speaker 14: Oh, we're downtown. Were now getting ready to have my

700
00:44:21,080 --> 00:44:23,799
Speaker 14: daddy released in about thirty minutes. You know, we've been

701
00:44:23,840 --> 00:44:25,320
Speaker 14: righting out for probably about an hour.

702
00:44:25,440 --> 00:44:27,000
Speaker 9: I say probably about an hour.

703
00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:29,640
Speaker 6: I talked to you like four hours ago, and everybody

704
00:44:29,680 --> 00:44:30,560
Speaker 6: was super bunned out.

705
00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:32,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, nothing was gonna happen.

706
00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:34,640
Speaker 14: So but I but I always but I told you

707
00:44:34,640 --> 00:44:36,960
Speaker 14: though God working mysterious ways, I told you that I

708
00:44:36,960 --> 00:44:39,799
Speaker 14: feel he gonna come out. So you know, you know,

709
00:44:39,840 --> 00:44:42,560
Speaker 14: he just sped up the process. You see what I'm saying,

710
00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:46,400
Speaker 14: He just spit it up. It's amazing, it's amazing.

711
00:44:46,600 --> 00:45:04,080
Speaker 6: And finally the moment everyone had been waiting for. The

712
00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:13,080
Speaker 6: doors open and Joseph comes out, fifteen years after being

713
00:45:13,120 --> 00:45:18,759
Speaker 6: falsely convicted of murder. The first person Joseph huggs is

714
00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:22,279
Speaker 6: his mom, Marie, and before he can answer any questions,

715
00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:25,759
Speaker 6: she passes out in his arms. Joseph's sons carry her

716
00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:28,719
Speaker 6: to the car, and within minutes Joseph is ready to

717
00:45:28,760 --> 00:45:35,080
Speaker 6: head out to his mom's house. The family piles into

718
00:45:35,120 --> 00:45:38,440
Speaker 6: their sub where Joseph's mom has been waiting as local

719
00:45:38,480 --> 00:45:42,839
Speaker 6: news crews transmit live and photographers snap photos. Marie asks

720
00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:45,319
Speaker 6: me to come by the house. When I walk in,

721
00:45:45,640 --> 00:45:49,120
Speaker 6: Joseph is in the kitchen making himself a huge plate

722
00:45:49,160 --> 00:45:53,040
Speaker 6: of food. Everyone is so happy. I decide to leave

723
00:45:53,120 --> 00:46:11,239
Speaker 6: and just let them have their night. The next day,

724
00:46:11,280 --> 00:46:13,680
Speaker 6: I link up with Joseph. He's got a full day

725
00:46:13,680 --> 00:46:17,120
Speaker 6: of activities planned. Go to the DMB to get his license,

726
00:46:17,320 --> 00:46:20,359
Speaker 6: go to the courthouse to sign some paperwork, and then

727
00:46:20,440 --> 00:46:23,040
Speaker 6: interviews at every TV station in the city.

728
00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:26,879
Speaker 1: All day.

729
00:46:26,920 --> 00:46:31,040
Speaker 6: He answers the same questions patiently. I follow him through

730
00:46:31,080 --> 00:46:35,160
Speaker 6: all of this in the car, between all these people

731
00:46:35,280 --> 00:46:38,200
Speaker 6: vying for his attention. We finally have a moment to

732
00:46:38,280 --> 00:46:42,640
Speaker 6: catch up This is a joyful moment, a dream come true,

733
00:46:43,160 --> 00:46:46,720
Speaker 6: but there's also some anxieties, fears of trying to rebuild

734
00:46:46,760 --> 00:46:50,279
Speaker 6: his life. Joseph walked out of prison with a business plan.

735
00:46:50,680 --> 00:46:52,560
Speaker 6: He's had a lot of time to think about it.

736
00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:55,120
Speaker 6: He wants to buy a dump truck and take advantage

737
00:46:55,120 --> 00:46:57,960
Speaker 6: of the burgeoning construction market in the city, so the

738
00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:02,240
Speaker 6: first step is to get a commercial drive. She also

739
00:47:02,239 --> 00:47:04,600
Speaker 6: had a chance to think about Kenny and how his

740
00:47:04,680 --> 00:47:06,120
Speaker 6: older brother had failed him.

741
00:47:06,760 --> 00:47:09,239
Speaker 3: I love him because it's my mama's son and she

742
00:47:09,400 --> 00:47:15,520
Speaker 3: loved him, but I can't have a relationship with him.

743
00:47:15,600 --> 00:47:18,279
Speaker 3: I know he's he's probably ashamed of what he did now,

744
00:47:18,440 --> 00:47:21,959
Speaker 3: he's really r probably regretting it. But I hadn't really

745
00:47:21,960 --> 00:47:26,920
Speaker 3: thought about it. I just know, like when I first

746
00:47:26,920 --> 00:47:30,000
Speaker 3: got incarcerated for it, that's what I was thinking, like

747
00:47:30,040 --> 00:47:31,920
Speaker 3: why would he do this to me? Or why this?

748
00:47:32,080 --> 00:47:32,600
Speaker 12: Or why that?

749
00:47:33,960 --> 00:47:37,000
Speaker 3: And I never got the answers. I couldn't even answer

750
00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:40,560
Speaker 3: it myself. So I stopped asking questions like that and

751
00:47:40,680 --> 00:47:43,319
Speaker 3: start living for me. And that's what I should have

752
00:47:43,360 --> 00:47:46,919
Speaker 3: been doing in the beginning as a child. I didn't

753
00:47:46,920 --> 00:47:52,640
Speaker 3: really know. But you go through things in life and

754
00:47:52,760 --> 00:47:57,680
Speaker 3: I know, you know, it was a It was a terrible,

755
00:47:57,920 --> 00:48:00,239
Speaker 3: terrible great listen.

756
00:48:02,080 --> 00:48:04,560
Speaker 6: At the DMB, Joseph is told that it's been so

757
00:48:04,800 --> 00:48:07,480
Speaker 6: long since he had a driver's license that he can't

758
00:48:07,520 --> 00:48:10,360
Speaker 6: get a commercial license. He has to go back to

759
00:48:10,400 --> 00:48:13,960
Speaker 6: the beginning, get an ID, pass a driver's test, and

760
00:48:14,040 --> 00:48:14,680
Speaker 6: come back.

761
00:48:14,520 --> 00:48:15,560
Speaker 1: In a few weeks.

762
00:48:16,200 --> 00:48:19,880
Speaker 6: But Joseph says he's happy, he's relieved, but still he

763
00:48:19,920 --> 00:48:21,680
Speaker 6: has some worries about making ends meet.

764
00:48:22,080 --> 00:48:24,200
Speaker 1: He wants to be in control of his own life.

765
00:48:24,640 --> 00:48:31,240
Speaker 3: It's like I've been in a in another person's body,

766
00:48:31,360 --> 00:48:33,680
Speaker 3: you know, Like I've been doing everything for these last

767
00:48:34,040 --> 00:48:36,000
Speaker 3: so when I was in prison for the last eighteen

768
00:48:36,120 --> 00:48:41,239
Speaker 3: nineteen years, what other people wanted me to do. So

769
00:48:41,280 --> 00:48:43,480
Speaker 3: I want to do what I choose to do, you know.

770
00:48:43,680 --> 00:48:46,400
Speaker 3: And just I want to get loved to my family.

771
00:48:46,520 --> 00:48:49,200
Speaker 3: That's what can I mean? I just been through so

772
00:48:49,320 --> 00:48:52,480
Speaker 3: much for so loan. It's like I don't want to

773
00:48:52,480 --> 00:48:53,640
Speaker 3: say up nothing list done that.

774
00:48:55,280 --> 00:48:57,600
Speaker 6: Back in Marie's home, I finally have a chance to

775
00:48:57,640 --> 00:49:01,719
Speaker 6: sit down with him and his three oldest sons, Jaquan, Duwayne,

776
00:49:01,760 --> 00:49:05,319
Speaker 6: and Tess. We squeeze around a kitchen table tes. His

777
00:49:05,400 --> 00:49:08,400
Speaker 6: oldest played college football. He tells me he used to

778
00:49:08,440 --> 00:49:10,920
Speaker 6: show off at his games in high school because he

779
00:49:11,000 --> 00:49:13,360
Speaker 6: knew if he did really well, he would make the

780
00:49:13,400 --> 00:49:16,640
Speaker 6: local news and his father would be watching in prison.

781
00:49:16,920 --> 00:49:19,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, if I do good in this game, he's gonnad

782
00:49:19,600 --> 00:49:21,120
Speaker 4: to see me because he's going to see the news.

783
00:49:21,440 --> 00:49:23,360
Speaker 4: So that's kind of like that was kind of the motivation.

784
00:49:24,560 --> 00:49:29,160
Speaker 4: So yeah, wow, so you flipped it like you gotta

785
00:49:29,200 --> 00:49:32,680
Speaker 4: always find the beauty of anything else.

786
00:49:33,520 --> 00:49:36,520
Speaker 6: Joseph starts crying. Then he gets up and walks away

787
00:49:36,560 --> 00:49:40,040
Speaker 6: for a moment. I stay behind with his sons. We

788
00:49:40,120 --> 00:49:43,440
Speaker 6: talk about football, about their dad. I think back to

789
00:49:43,480 --> 00:49:47,000
Speaker 6: what Joseph told me about why he stopped playing football

790
00:49:47,280 --> 00:49:50,359
Speaker 6: and how his biggest fear was that his absence would

791
00:49:50,360 --> 00:49:53,239
Speaker 6: do the same to his own kids. And I'm glad

792
00:49:53,320 --> 00:49:55,960
Speaker 6: Joseph is here to hear his son say those words.

793
00:49:56,320 --> 00:49:59,120
Speaker 6: When Joseph returns, he's composed, so.

794
00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:06,480
Speaker 4: Say this getting the last year. But yeah, they don't.

795
00:50:06,360 --> 00:50:09,200
Speaker 1: How feel and that's all he'll say.

796
00:50:09,480 --> 00:50:11,879
Speaker 6: But his kids say that he was always there for them,

797
00:50:12,360 --> 00:50:15,480
Speaker 6: the phone calls, the letters, He's been a good father.

798
00:50:16,080 --> 00:50:19,000
Speaker 6: All they care about now is what comes next.

799
00:50:19,480 --> 00:50:22,440
Speaker 4: I know, you know, you know, he's just getting started

800
00:50:23,040 --> 00:50:24,239
Speaker 4: this again.

801
00:50:24,520 --> 00:50:27,839
Speaker 3: So you come back in the year, you're gonna see

802
00:50:28,120 --> 00:50:29,320
Speaker 3: a lot of different things.

803
00:50:29,600 --> 00:50:33,839
Speaker 4: So if you do come back, you'd come back. I would.

804
00:50:34,440 --> 00:50:39,520
Speaker 4: It's gonna be on the ovens. Yeah, Pops is home.

805
00:50:39,840 --> 00:50:45,680
Speaker 8: He's home, and we're just refreshing, get this started. Just

806
00:50:45,719 --> 00:50:46,799
Speaker 8: happy for him to be home.

807
00:50:47,239 --> 00:50:48,719
Speaker 1: What's your favorite thing you've done so far?

808
00:50:49,600 --> 00:50:49,920
Speaker 3: Uh?

809
00:50:50,080 --> 00:50:51,040
Speaker 4: You know what's crazy?

810
00:50:51,320 --> 00:50:53,920
Speaker 8: It was all of us and he didn't want to

811
00:50:53,920 --> 00:50:55,840
Speaker 8: get a haircuts, like little stuff like that.

812
00:50:55,920 --> 00:50:58,799
Speaker 4: I feel like that's you know, that's that's needed. You know,

813
00:50:58,840 --> 00:51:01,280
Speaker 4: I don't We don't honestly, we don't have to do anything.

814
00:51:01,320 --> 00:51:04,120
Speaker 4: We could just sit right here chill talk all day.

815
00:51:04,160 --> 00:51:07,279
Speaker 4: I don't care. It's times like that you can't take back.

816
00:51:07,600 --> 00:51:09,680
Speaker 14: It's a lot that that we know about out here

817
00:51:09,719 --> 00:51:10,960
Speaker 14: that he don't know nothing about.

818
00:51:10,960 --> 00:51:11,239
Speaker 2: Some him.

819
00:51:11,280 --> 00:51:16,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, the barbershop, Yeah, that's getting right. I don't want

820
00:51:16,239 --> 00:51:17,400
Speaker 4: to know how the foods by so.

821
00:51:20,560 --> 00:51:23,960
Speaker 3: Okay, close right too, because he's still a little bit

822
00:51:24,400 --> 00:51:24,840
Speaker 3: bad on.

823
00:51:26,880 --> 00:51:27,000
Speaker 7: Right.

824
00:51:29,080 --> 00:51:41,480
Speaker 4: Yeah.

825
00:51:43,040 --> 00:51:46,600
Speaker 6: For almost two decades, Joseph worried about not being there

826
00:51:46,680 --> 00:51:50,799
Speaker 6: for his children. Now his children are there for him,

827
00:51:51,080 --> 00:52:04,960
Speaker 6: and they're helping him navigate his new life. A few

828
00:52:04,960 --> 00:52:07,759
Speaker 6: months later, I get a phone call from Joseph. He

829
00:52:07,800 --> 00:52:09,240
Speaker 6: wants to share some good news.

830
00:52:11,120 --> 00:52:15,120
Speaker 3: I got my license, you did, Yeah, yeah, I got them.

831
00:52:15,840 --> 00:52:18,520
Speaker 1: No, how does that feel? Have you had a chance

832
00:52:18,560 --> 00:52:21,239
Speaker 1: to get out there and be driving around? Yeah, I've

833
00:52:21,239 --> 00:52:21,720
Speaker 1: been driving.

834
00:52:21,760 --> 00:52:22,400
Speaker 7: I'm driving there.

835
00:52:22,440 --> 00:52:25,160
Speaker 6: I'm in chief for late And he tells me he's

836
00:52:25,200 --> 00:52:28,000
Speaker 6: not really sure what to order, but he's loving the

837
00:52:28,040 --> 00:52:32,200
Speaker 6: freedom and the choices. Having so many options is a

838
00:52:32,239 --> 00:52:36,520
Speaker 6: gift after having none for so long. It's not lost

839
00:52:36,560 --> 00:52:39,480
Speaker 6: on me the fact that for years or conversations were

840
00:52:39,560 --> 00:52:43,000
Speaker 6: always about this one goal, this moment of freedom that

841
00:52:43,080 --> 00:52:47,480
Speaker 6: almost felt impossible to achieve. And now we chat on

842
00:52:47,520 --> 00:52:52,240
Speaker 6: the phone about chicken sandwiches and lemonade, just normal stuff.

843
00:52:52,040 --> 00:52:55,880
Speaker 3: But great, this's my mom, right, hold on for one second.

844
00:52:56,760 --> 00:52:57,080
Speaker 7: Hello.

845
00:52:57,440 --> 00:53:01,480
Speaker 3: Hey, Yeah, she told me to say hello.

846
00:53:01,760 --> 00:53:03,120
Speaker 1: Oh she's doing okay.

847
00:53:03,560 --> 00:53:04,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, she's doing great.

848
00:53:04,920 --> 00:53:06,480
Speaker 1: And he's got more good news.

849
00:53:07,080 --> 00:53:09,399
Speaker 3: And I'm reading the houses in my own name.

850
00:53:09,520 --> 00:53:10,960
Speaker 14: So I mean I'm good with that.

851
00:53:11,360 --> 00:53:13,000
Speaker 13: Hey, congratulations.

852
00:53:13,920 --> 00:53:16,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm good with that. So I mean I've been

853
00:53:17,280 --> 00:53:18,160
Speaker 3: I been all right though.

854
00:53:19,600 --> 00:53:21,000
Speaker 7: Yeah, I'm not gonna let him down.

855
00:53:21,080 --> 00:53:22,600
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna let myself down like.

856
00:53:23,680 --> 00:53:24,680
Speaker 9: I mean I feel good.

857
00:53:24,719 --> 00:53:26,359
Speaker 3: I'm from happy, you know what I'm saying.

858
00:53:26,360 --> 00:53:27,839
Speaker 1: I'm proud to be well man.

859
00:53:32,640 --> 00:53:35,400
Speaker 6: Joseph tells me he's been seeing his kids almost daily

860
00:53:35,880 --> 00:53:37,920
Speaker 6: and he's trying really hard to say out for that

861
00:53:38,040 --> 00:53:41,800
Speaker 6: dump truck he hopes to buy. It isn't easy making

862
00:53:41,960 --> 00:53:44,879
Speaker 6: ends me, taking care of a family, trying to build

863
00:53:44,880 --> 00:53:47,200
Speaker 6: a business when you come out of prison with nothing,

864
00:53:47,880 --> 00:53:50,960
Speaker 6: but he's got his support system, his family.

865
00:54:16,640 --> 00:54:19,600
Speaker 2: This episode was produced by Julia Ta Martinelli and edited

866
00:54:19,640 --> 00:54:23,080
Speaker 2: by Marta Martinez. Fact checking for this episode by Ben Klin.

867
00:54:23,400 --> 00:54:27,920
Speaker 2: The Latino USA team includes Miguel Marciees, Andrea Lopez Gruzsado,

868
00:54:28,200 --> 00:54:33,240
Speaker 2: Gini montalbo Alejandra salasad Reinaldo, Leanos Junior, and Julia Rocha,

869
00:54:33,440 --> 00:54:36,600
Speaker 2: with help from Raul Perez. Our engineers are Stephanie Lebau,

870
00:54:36,680 --> 00:54:40,320
Speaker 2: Julia Caruso, and Liah Shaw. Our digital editor is Louise Luna.

871
00:54:40,480 --> 00:54:44,160
Speaker 2: Our New York Women's Foundation Ignite fellow is Maries Kinka.

872
00:54:44,560 --> 00:54:47,560
Speaker 2: Our intern is Oscar de Leon. Our theme music was

873
00:54:47,560 --> 00:54:50,160
Speaker 2: composed by Zane Robinos. If you like the music you

874
00:54:50,200 --> 00:54:53,000
Speaker 2: heard on this episode, stop by Latino Usa dot org

875
00:54:53,320 --> 00:54:56,640
Speaker 2: and check out our weekly Spotify playlist. I'm your host

876
00:54:56,680 --> 00:54:58,160
Speaker 2: and executive producer Marie J.

877
00:54:58,200 --> 00:54:58,560
Speaker 5: Josa.

878
00:54:59,000 --> 00:55:01,240
Speaker 2: Join us again on our next episode, and in the meantime,

879
00:55:01,520 --> 00:55:04,120
Speaker 2: I'll see you on our social media choo.

880
00:55:06,880 --> 00:55:10,840
Speaker 17: Latino USA is made possible in part by the Heising

881
00:55:10,960 --> 00:55:18,120
Speaker 17: Simons Foundation, unlocking knowledge, opportunity and possibilities more at hsfoundation

882
00:55:18,360 --> 00:55:18,919
Speaker 17: dot org.

883
00:55:19,800 --> 00:55:20,239
Speaker 1: W K.

884
00:55:20,520 --> 00:55:25,200
Speaker 17: Kellogg Foundation, a partner with Communities where Children Come First,

885
00:55:25,880 --> 00:55:27,760
Speaker 17: and the wind Coat Foundation.

886
00:55:31,560 --> 00:55:34,279
Speaker 6: So, but that form bread was like

887
00:55:35,160 --> 00:55:39,000
Speaker 7: Yeah, amazing, What where are you going to be Thanksgiving

888
00:55:39,200 --> 00:55:39,560
Speaker 7: at all?