WEBVTT - Sandra Bernhard: Post-Modern Entertainer 0:00:03.320 --> 0:00:06.040 This is Alec Baldwin and you were listening to Here's 0:00:06.080 --> 0:00:09.800 the thing, My chance to talk with artists, policy makers 0:00:09.840 --> 0:00:14.240 and performers, to hear their stories. What inspires their creations, 0:00:14.320 --> 0:00:18.920 what decisions change their careers, what relationships influenced their work. 0:00:19.560 --> 0:00:24.000 My guest today is actress and comedian Sandra Bernhardt. Her 0:00:24.000 --> 0:00:27.600 father was a proctologist and her mother an abstract artist, 0:00:27.800 --> 0:00:32.600 and that combination formed her worldview for many Sandra Bernhard 0:00:32.680 --> 0:00:36.000 is a comedian and she began her career at comedy 0:00:36.040 --> 0:00:39.120 clubs in l A in the nineteen seventies. Soon she 0:00:39.200 --> 0:00:41.920 caught the attention of the likes of Paul Mooney, who 0:00:41.960 --> 0:00:47.440 became a comedy mentor. She calls herself a postmodern entertainer, 0:00:47.960 --> 0:00:51.600 but you should never underestimate Sandra Bernhardt's career as a 0:00:51.680 --> 0:00:57.520 legit actress. In her three breakout role in Martin Scorsese 0:00:57.680 --> 0:01:00.880 is The King of Comedy, Bernhardt held her own opposite 0:01:00.920 --> 0:01:04.760 Robert de Niro and Jerry Lewis. Bernhardt says she never 0:01:04.840 --> 0:01:08.360 wanted to settle for just telling jokes. She always wanted more, 0:01:08.640 --> 0:01:13.120 a bigger stage, a louder voice, a wider audience. Born 0:01:13.240 --> 0:01:17.280 in Flint, Michigan. Sandra Bernhard was raised in a conservative 0:01:17.319 --> 0:01:21.560 Jewish family. She moved to Scottsdale, Arizona, and spent eight 0:01:21.600 --> 0:01:24.240 months on a kibbutz out of high school. She moved 0:01:24.280 --> 0:01:27.040 to l A in nineteen seventy four at age nineteen 0:01:27.400 --> 0:01:31.399 and enrolled in beauty school. My entire higher education costs 0:01:31.440 --> 0:01:34.400 three hundred and forty dollars. My dad wrote a check 0:01:34.440 --> 0:01:36.679 and left town. I was like, you got off easy, 0:01:36.920 --> 0:01:39.600 my dear dad. And then I was on my own. 0:01:39.680 --> 0:01:41.959 I got I got a couple of jobs, and then 0:01:42.000 --> 0:01:44.920 I landed on my feet at three one North Cannon 0:01:45.040 --> 0:01:48.760 Drive at c C I a si a hair salon. 0:01:48.800 --> 0:01:51.680 That was the name of one of the Um hair 0:01:51.720 --> 0:01:54.520 guys who owned the salon. And I was there for 0:01:54.560 --> 0:01:56.760 five and a half years, and I and I a 0:01:56.840 --> 0:02:00.280 year later, I started performing at night at clubs. What 0:02:00.360 --> 0:02:04.120 was the Jewish identity thing for you? You're growing up 0:02:04.120 --> 0:02:08.840 in Flint and you moved to Um and you've up 0:02:08.880 --> 0:02:11.880 in a very conservative Jewish household. So was it understood 0:02:11.919 --> 0:02:13.720 you'd go do the kibbutzing at some point go to 0:02:13.760 --> 0:02:16.160 Israel for si No no no I had. I just 0:02:16.200 --> 0:02:19.040 had tons of family who when they left Russia, they 0:02:19.080 --> 0:02:23.400 went to Israel and we came to America. So my 0:02:23.480 --> 0:02:26.200 brothers had all gone to work on kibbutzim and in 0:02:26.280 --> 0:02:28.760 the seventies was like it was a great fun thing 0:02:28.800 --> 0:02:33.560 to do after high school. And they welcomed everybody's you know, help, 0:02:33.840 --> 0:02:35.800 and they didn't pay you anything, but they fed you 0:02:35.840 --> 0:02:37.600 in clothes. You and what did you do? What were 0:02:37.600 --> 0:02:41.040 you doing? I did several things. I worked picking um, 0:02:41.080 --> 0:02:44.200 grapefruits and oranges, and then my main job was working 0:02:44.200 --> 0:02:47.760 in the slaughterhouse. It's called the mashta, and I was 0:02:48.000 --> 0:02:50.640 on the line, the assembly line with chickens come down. 0:02:51.200 --> 0:02:53.840 Everybody took out different parts. My main thing was pulling 0:02:53.840 --> 0:02:58.960 out the oh, the lungs. Actually I vacuumed lungs out 0:02:59.000 --> 0:03:03.840 of chickens. I know, you look at me, lengths of that. Yeah, 0:03:04.080 --> 0:03:07.959 picking fruit, something very clean and wholesome and sweet, and 0:03:08.000 --> 0:03:10.200 then ripping the lungs out of vacuuming out of do 0:03:10.240 --> 0:03:11.640 you just did what they asked you to do. And if, 0:03:11.680 --> 0:03:13.520 of course, if you were if that was something that 0:03:13.639 --> 0:03:15.880 was you know, not comfortable for you, they wouldn't force 0:03:15.919 --> 0:03:19.000 you to do it. You work like from seven to 0:03:19.200 --> 0:03:21.680 like twelve, and then you have the afternoons off and 0:03:21.720 --> 0:03:23.519 you'd stay up late and hang out with all the 0:03:23.560 --> 0:03:26.160 other kids from all over the world, and you get 0:03:26.200 --> 0:03:29.200 to know people and have fun, and you know, it 0:03:29.280 --> 0:03:33.079 was like an international experience. It was incredible. Working yourself 0:03:33.080 --> 0:03:34.920 to death. No no, no, no no, because you're one of 0:03:34.920 --> 0:03:37.160 the great Cavellas of all time. In my mind, I 0:03:37.200 --> 0:03:39.640 going to see you. They're turned into somebody going how 0:03:39.720 --> 0:03:42.080 much longer have I have to go? Have to vacuum 0:03:42.080 --> 0:03:44.880 out these lungs. I mean I never complained. I'm a worker. 0:03:44.920 --> 0:03:46.720 I like to work, and when I have to do it, 0:03:46.760 --> 0:03:49.960 I do it. I like I like manual labor. Yeah, 0:03:50.000 --> 0:03:52.920 I like to clean. I like to do laundry. I 0:03:53.000 --> 0:03:55.800 like to wash dishes. So I mean, if everything the 0:03:55.840 --> 0:03:57.680 bottom fell out, I'd be fine. I think that is 0:03:57.680 --> 0:03:59.920 why do you think you like? I'm taking seriously, you like, Manu, 0:04:00.000 --> 0:04:02.760 what is it about? Because it's it's it's freeing, you know, 0:04:02.960 --> 0:04:04.680 it's and nobody is there to tell you to do it. 0:04:04.840 --> 0:04:07.560 You know, if you're doing something right, you know, if 0:04:07.560 --> 0:04:10.400 you're cleaning a toilet or you know, a shower or 0:04:10.440 --> 0:04:12.520 a sink, or or washing a dish, and drawing it. 0:04:12.560 --> 0:04:14.960 I mean, it's just it's it's liberating. You're doing a 0:04:15.000 --> 0:04:18.160 load of laundry and it does it's it's it's meditative. 0:04:18.520 --> 0:04:21.120 It's funny you say that because my wife is constantly 0:04:21.400 --> 0:04:25.479 uh badgering me, because we'll have dinner and we'll cook dinner, 0:04:25.560 --> 0:04:27.400 or even if we order food in and played it 0:04:27.440 --> 0:04:30.400 for everybody and eat uh here in the city or 0:04:30.400 --> 0:04:32.160 out on Long Island where we live. And when we're done, 0:04:32.200 --> 0:04:34.599 I'll say to everybody, get out of this room, take 0:04:34.640 --> 0:04:36.400 your wine bottles in your glasses, and go in the 0:04:36.400 --> 0:04:38.479 other room. And I want to be left completely alone 0:04:38.520 --> 0:04:40.479 here to clean this kitchen. And there's a tremendous sense 0:04:40.520 --> 0:04:43.600 of compersixation when it's over in the kitchens gleaming and 0:04:43.640 --> 0:04:46.040 all the dishes are put away, and I feel what 0:04:46.080 --> 0:04:48.920 a people who need to occupy themselves that way. I 0:04:49.080 --> 0:04:50.680 take your mind off there. I think it's I think 0:04:50.720 --> 0:04:54.880 it's an escape from you know, the intellectual and I 0:04:55.560 --> 0:04:58.279 go beta, I don't think so much. I'm just gonna relax. 0:04:58.320 --> 0:05:01.040 It's relaxing. It is. It's totally like focused on that. 0:05:01.440 --> 0:05:04.240 It's a freeing experience. You come back from and you 0:05:04.279 --> 0:05:10.600 go to l A harmony. How do they influence you? Well, 0:05:10.960 --> 0:05:13.680 they believed in me, and they thought I was the 0:05:13.680 --> 0:05:16.200 funniest thing they'd ever seen. And you know, I just 0:05:16.200 --> 0:05:20.280 thought I was adorable and fresh and crazy, and you know, 0:05:20.480 --> 0:05:23.839 nobody had seen a five ft ten, you know, nineteen 0:05:23.920 --> 0:05:27.600 year old, you know, wearing a Safari jacket, Safari short, 0:05:27.720 --> 0:05:31.440 some lace up espadrill's a little hat, you know, just 0:05:31.520 --> 0:05:36.000 full of like vim and vigor and pissing vinegar. And 0:05:36.040 --> 0:05:37.720 I was just like, I was like a wild, a 0:05:37.800 --> 0:05:39.880 wild card. What's the first club you got? You did 0:05:39.920 --> 0:05:43.080 open mic? This was at the Little Club in Beverly Hills. 0:05:43.160 --> 0:05:45.160 They had opened mic on Monday night. Is also where 0:05:45.200 --> 0:05:47.680 Joan Rivers used to break in her new material back 0:05:47.680 --> 0:05:49.960 in the day. So I got up and I did 0:05:50.000 --> 0:05:53.720 my first joke, I'm I'm a medium. I understand you're 0:05:53.720 --> 0:05:57.520 a small you're an extra large. Um. That was my 0:05:57.560 --> 0:05:59.960 first joke, and then it just kind of went out 0:06:00.000 --> 0:06:02.680 from there. And then I started incorporating my singing, you know, 0:06:02.720 --> 0:06:04.400 which was really my first love. I really wanted to 0:06:04.440 --> 0:06:06.719 be I really wanted to be another Bette Midler. I 0:06:06.720 --> 0:06:11.719 wanted to be like a wild singing edgy, crazy entertainer, 0:06:11.760 --> 0:06:15.599 a post modern entertainer, which I became in my own way. 0:06:16.320 --> 0:06:18.839 I did at least a year of you know, the 0:06:19.000 --> 0:06:24.080 little club or UM Rusty's Bagel. This guy named Rusty Blitz. 0:06:24.279 --> 0:06:26.839 He was actually had a little part in UM Young 0:06:26.920 --> 0:06:30.440 Frankenstein and he had a little storefront where he had 0:06:30.440 --> 0:06:33.520 served bagels and you'd get up and do your five minutes. 0:06:33.520 --> 0:06:35.320 So there were a lot, lots and lots of little 0:06:35.360 --> 0:06:37.839 clubs like that. And then within a year I started 0:06:37.880 --> 0:06:41.960 going to UM the Improv and the Comedy Store, and 0:06:42.240 --> 0:06:44.880 UM that's where you know, I started getting my chops together, 0:06:45.600 --> 0:06:48.320 and um, you know, and I started getting I did 0:06:48.320 --> 0:06:51.400 the Richard Pryor TV show because of Paul Mooney. He 0:06:51.440 --> 0:06:55.920 did a short lived show on NBC, last six episodes. 0:06:56.400 --> 0:06:58.679 Well you know, it was sketches. I was a regular 0:06:59.120 --> 0:07:02.680 and you can see it. It's disavailable. People come up 0:07:02.760 --> 0:07:04.880 quite often and say, oh, well, you you know a 0:07:05.000 --> 0:07:08.359 durable that we did a roast. We roasted Richard. I 0:07:08.400 --> 0:07:10.880 was one of the people who roasted him. So that 0:07:11.000 --> 0:07:13.480 was like that, you know, again, just thrown into like 0:07:13.560 --> 0:07:17.160 this major situation, and I just, you know, you just 0:07:17.240 --> 0:07:19.240 learned how to stand on your own two feet. You know. 0:07:19.440 --> 0:07:22.760 It didn't really involve acting school or you know, I 0:07:22.840 --> 0:07:26.320 never really studied anything formally. It was just all my 0:07:26.440 --> 0:07:31.040 sort of you know, fascination and imagination that you know, 0:07:31.120 --> 0:07:34.200 carried me through at every different juncture. But when you're 0:07:34.200 --> 0:07:37.240 with someone like Prior and you're young, described to me, 0:07:38.000 --> 0:07:40.440 is Prior calling all the shots with some producer, writer, 0:07:40.520 --> 0:07:43.200 director to know it was. It was Bert Sugarman, I 0:07:43.200 --> 0:07:46.120 think was the executive producer, which was I don't know, 0:07:46.160 --> 0:07:48.560 it was just sort of like incongruous, you know, some 0:07:48.600 --> 0:07:50.880 of the people involved with it. But Paul Mooney was 0:07:50.920 --> 0:07:53.720 the head writer, UM Robin Williams. It was his first 0:07:54.000 --> 0:07:56.600 big gig. It was like a lot of people that 0:07:56.840 --> 0:08:01.880 familiar faces, um now and so Paul would write little 0:08:01.880 --> 0:08:03.360 parts for us or a little you know in the 0:08:03.360 --> 0:08:07.520 sketches and we just did it. And Prior was just 0:08:07.560 --> 0:08:10.880 like beyond. He would just stand there and like laugh 0:08:10.920 --> 0:08:13.480 at everybody. You know. He he was a fish out 0:08:13.480 --> 0:08:16.040 of water. He didn't like that format at all. He 0:08:16.080 --> 0:08:19.880 didn't like being under the thumb of NBC or being censored, 0:08:20.560 --> 0:08:23.000 you know. So that's why it only lasted for six 0:08:23.040 --> 0:08:27.360 shows that I can't do this no more. This is 0:08:27.440 --> 0:08:30.400 this is the sad news. Prior is very bottled up. 0:08:30.400 --> 0:08:34.199 You wouldn't see much emotion from Richard Pryor. It was 0:08:34.240 --> 0:08:36.680 all done in you know, the dressing room. But he 0:08:36.760 --> 0:08:39.640 was very supportive of yea and always he just he 0:08:39.840 --> 0:08:43.320 loved to laugh at at young up and coming entertainment 0:08:43.440 --> 0:08:47.320 and totally not threatened, no need to control. If he 0:08:47.360 --> 0:08:49.880 had a suggestion, he would whisper it to Paul. It 0:08:49.960 --> 0:08:55.760 was very all, very subtle. And then what happens after that, Well, 0:08:55.800 --> 0:08:58.840 you know, I'm just performing during the day, I'm doing gigs. 0:08:59.240 --> 0:09:01.760 You know, I'm all not how would you see your 0:09:01.800 --> 0:09:06.080 performances are changing? Well, they opened a room at a 0:09:06.120 --> 0:09:09.760 comedy story called the Belly Room, which was for only 0:09:09.840 --> 0:09:14.800 women performers. So it was the woman who owned it, 0:09:15.120 --> 0:09:18.600 Mitzy Shore, who's still around barely. She was very like 0:09:18.760 --> 0:09:21.400 she was. She was like a segregationist, you know, she 0:09:21.480 --> 0:09:23.679 separated the men from the women, and she loved the men, 0:09:23.800 --> 0:09:26.160 she didn't like the women. She didn't think women really 0:09:26.200 --> 0:09:30.000 belonged in comedy. And it was now very strange. So 0:09:30.080 --> 0:09:32.080 but I got a lot of confidence in this Belly 0:09:32.160 --> 0:09:34.600 Room because people came to see women and they weren't 0:09:34.679 --> 0:09:38.040 expecting you to do male driven comedy, and it was 0:09:38.080 --> 0:09:40.920 just different. So it freed me up to to do 0:09:41.000 --> 0:09:44.840 what I did, which was very completely postfeminist. I refused 0:09:44.840 --> 0:09:48.160 to be self deprecating and nobody had done that yet, No, 0:09:48.160 --> 0:09:52.600 no woman comedian performer hadn't done something where she was like, oh, 0:09:52.640 --> 0:09:55.760 you know, I'm so ugly or this roun that and single. 0:09:57.320 --> 0:09:58.959 And I was really young, so it wasn't like I 0:09:59.000 --> 0:10:01.080 didn't feel like, what am I? Why would I do that? 0:10:01.200 --> 0:10:05.360 You know, I'm I'm hot, you know. Yeah, that was 0:10:05.400 --> 0:10:08.559 my attitude. And of course I was always nervous, but 0:10:08.640 --> 0:10:11.480 like everybody starting out, but I covered it up by 0:10:11.520 --> 0:10:17.479 being this sort of character, you know, the super areadite, sophisticated, groovy, 0:10:17.679 --> 0:10:22.200 swinging you know, uh huh yeah, all over it. So 0:10:22.800 --> 0:10:26.160 that's that was the direction I kept going in, and 0:10:26.200 --> 0:10:28.640 I did. I did a couple of little movies, little parts, 0:10:28.679 --> 0:10:33.559 little bit, little of this, and then I auditioned for um, 0:10:33.640 --> 0:10:37.559 The King of Comedy, UM the Robert Your Jerry Lewis 0:10:37.559 --> 0:10:40.720 Martin Scorsese vehicle, along with a lot of other people. 0:10:41.280 --> 0:10:42.920 And you know, at that point I was like, I 0:10:42.960 --> 0:10:44.920 didn't even think about it. I just did it. They 0:10:44.920 --> 0:10:48.920 wanted somebody who could improvise, which I did, and after 0:10:49.040 --> 0:10:52.240 like about a month or two of auditioning, several several 0:10:52.280 --> 0:10:56.320 auditions for a different levels, um, I got the part. 0:10:56.440 --> 0:10:58.520 And that was, you know, a game changer for me. 0:10:59.400 --> 0:11:01.280 And after that, I I didn't have to perform at 0:11:01.320 --> 0:11:04.560 the comedy clubs anymore. I would I would miss that. No, 0:11:04.720 --> 0:11:06.280 I didn't. I never wanted to go back to the 0:11:06.280 --> 0:11:09.120 comedy club because I didn't like that scene. You didn't 0:11:09.320 --> 0:11:13.880 know that wasn't That wasn't for Sandy. Now then I 0:11:13.880 --> 0:11:17.160 could start, you know, playing rock and roll clubs and 0:11:17.200 --> 0:11:20.480 doing concerts and like that. Even if it's just like 0:11:20.880 --> 0:11:23.880 a rock and roll club, it has a different connotation 0:11:23.920 --> 0:11:25.760 because then I have my band and I could sing 0:11:25.880 --> 0:11:28.200 and do all the things that I do, because I 0:11:28.240 --> 0:11:31.040 wanted to do a whole performance, a whole evening, not 0:11:31.160 --> 0:11:37.120 just like you say that. Scorsese and the people involved 0:11:37.160 --> 0:11:40.960 with the film. I guess auditions several people for quite 0:11:41.000 --> 0:11:44.040 a while to get down to casting you, What was 0:11:44.080 --> 0:11:45.800 your interaction with him? Did he work with you a lot? 0:11:45.840 --> 0:11:46.959 Did you go in and see him a lot? And 0:11:46.960 --> 0:11:48.760 working material with him a lot. Yeah. Well, I mean 0:11:49.000 --> 0:11:52.040 my initial audition was for Siskorm and the casting person 0:11:52.800 --> 0:11:56.360 and she was like visibly stunned by me, and I 0:11:56.440 --> 0:11:58.360 didn't know what that meant, but she's, I think Marty 0:11:58.480 --> 0:12:01.000 needs to see you. She had me back the next 0:12:01.080 --> 0:12:04.439 day and and and Deborah Winger was driving a Volkswagen. 0:12:04.440 --> 0:12:06.600 And I had known Debora Winger because she was a 0:12:06.640 --> 0:12:09.760 waitress at the improv and she said, Sandy, it's me Debbie, 0:12:09.760 --> 0:12:11.199 and I look, I said, I'm like, yeah, hi, Tim. 0:12:11.440 --> 0:12:12.760 So then I got nervous and I thought, was she 0:12:12.840 --> 0:12:15.160 must be up for the film too. I'm sure she was. 0:12:15.800 --> 0:12:19.000 It was up at the um Chateau Marmont. That was 0:12:19.040 --> 0:12:21.120 all the all the auditions in l A were at 0:12:21.120 --> 0:12:23.040 the chateau. So the next day I went back and 0:12:23.080 --> 0:12:26.679 I read for Marty and he loved it, and then 0:12:26.720 --> 0:12:29.840 he brought me back to read for him and Bobby 0:12:29.880 --> 0:12:33.520 de Niro and yeah, they just kept and then they 0:12:33.520 --> 0:12:36.040 came to see me perform at the Comedy Store and 0:12:36.559 --> 0:12:40.360 Richard belzer Um did a little improv with me, which 0:12:40.400 --> 0:12:42.760 was really sweet because then they could see how I 0:12:42.840 --> 0:12:46.440 interacted like with somebody who was you know, sort of 0:12:46.480 --> 0:12:49.080 like the movie was going to be, and they loved that. 0:12:49.360 --> 0:12:51.160 And then I didn't hear from anybody for a month. 0:12:51.960 --> 0:12:55.120 And then they flew me to New York and I 0:12:55.160 --> 0:12:57.400 stayed at the Mayflower Hotel, which is now you know 0:12:57.559 --> 0:13:03.080 that bigot. Where was all happening to me? Biddle Barrows 0:13:03.200 --> 0:13:07.200 was her name, Yes, madam, Yes, I don't know that 0:13:07.240 --> 0:13:09.640 from I don't have her business card in my well. 0:13:09.640 --> 0:13:12.240 But the hotel a lot was happening, I can tell 0:13:12.280 --> 0:13:15.120 you that much. I mean every action. Remember that they 0:13:15.120 --> 0:13:17.360 sold the contents of the hotel. They tore down the hotel, 0:13:17.840 --> 0:13:19.480 and before they did, they offered people a chance to 0:13:19.480 --> 0:13:21.640 come in and buy the contents. They sold like an 0:13:21.720 --> 0:13:24.880 estate auction, the drapery and the furniture. It was the 0:13:24.880 --> 0:13:26.440 worst stuff in the world. I mean, it was like 0:13:26.640 --> 0:13:30.200 from you know, from from a million years ago, but 0:13:30.320 --> 0:13:31.760 it was it was a fun place to be. And 0:13:31.760 --> 0:13:33.319 then that was the audition where I was going to 0:13:33.480 --> 0:13:39.160 read with um Jerry Lewis. Now, yeah, what was that like? Oh? 0:13:39.480 --> 0:13:42.400 I think it was great, but I was that That 0:13:42.480 --> 0:13:44.000 was the only time I was really nervous in the 0:13:44.000 --> 0:13:48.480 whole audition process because of Erry Lewis, and he's an 0:13:48.480 --> 0:13:53.280 intimidating yeah figure, you know, and when I met him, 0:13:53.280 --> 0:13:55.160 he's kind of a no nonsense guy. Well he's no 0:13:55.160 --> 0:13:58.120 nonsense and he knows everything. You know, he's like the 0:13:58.200 --> 0:14:03.320 no at all. But it's interesting how you Um, I 0:14:03.320 --> 0:14:05.520 don't consider myself a comedian, but I've done a lot 0:14:05.559 --> 0:14:10.040 of comedian comedy programming and I'm around these eighth degree 0:14:10.120 --> 0:14:14.280 black belt comedy people, and some of them are it's 0:14:14.280 --> 0:14:17.800 almost inconceivably dry and very droll when you meet them 0:14:17.800 --> 0:14:21.320 in person and their own persona a couple I'm thinking 0:14:21.320 --> 0:14:24.640 of is very ANTIQ and very nutty and silly, and 0:14:24.640 --> 0:14:26.840 then you see them backstage and they're like, you know, 0:14:27.360 --> 0:14:30.280 you think that you're talking to a politician, Yeah, the 0:14:30.320 --> 0:14:32.200 Prime Minister of England and you were not going to 0:14:32.280 --> 0:14:34.880 state visit or something. They're very proper and buttoned up 0:14:35.360 --> 0:14:38.600 and no jokes would have and he strikes me that way. 0:14:38.600 --> 0:14:43.400 He's pompous, imperious, very imperious. What I think, Well, yeah, 0:14:43.400 --> 0:14:45.880 I mean it's clear everything has been said that there 0:14:45.960 --> 0:14:48.320 is to say about Jerry Lewis something until now. I mean, 0:14:48.320 --> 0:14:51.560 he's still he's still unbelievable he's still that same person. 0:14:52.400 --> 0:14:55.080 And he hadn't really worked with a woman like me before, 0:14:55.120 --> 0:14:57.840 he don't, you know, he used people like Stella Stella 0:14:57.880 --> 0:15:01.000 Steven's sour name is sort of like, you know, foil 0:15:01.080 --> 0:15:03.560 a foil. You know, women weren't there to actually hold 0:15:03.560 --> 0:15:06.760 their own there, Margaret Dumont and that woman from the 0:15:06.920 --> 0:15:10.760 from the Mark Brother the Foil exactly. But when you're 0:15:10.800 --> 0:15:14.040 there with him, um, you know, that's Marty in and 0:15:14.080 --> 0:15:16.360 around in Raging Bullet came out a little bit before that, 0:15:16.440 --> 0:15:17.560 just a couple of years before they get in like 0:15:17.680 --> 0:15:21.360 nineteen or something. You know, that's Marty right, questing at 0:15:21.360 --> 0:15:23.680 the peak of his power, making this film with you. 0:15:24.520 --> 0:15:29.520 And I'm wondering, does de Niro and Marty obviously have 0:15:29.680 --> 0:15:31.960 and I can't even define it, their own legendary kind 0:15:31.960 --> 0:15:33.520 of battery between the two of them and how they 0:15:33.600 --> 0:15:36.640 work and the unspoken and the spoken and so forth. 0:15:38.040 --> 0:15:40.600 But I wanted to someone like Lewis to see defer 0:15:40.920 --> 0:15:44.160 to Scor says he discussed. He didn't know Scor says 0:15:44.160 --> 0:15:45.560 he deferred to him. He wanted he had to do 0:15:46.320 --> 0:15:50.040 very self directing, yeah, self tracking, but also Marty would 0:15:50.080 --> 0:15:52.440 like I guess, humor him in a certain way and 0:15:52.520 --> 0:15:55.800 say well what do you think about this scene? And 0:15:55.800 --> 0:15:58.320 and to be handled a certain Yeah. So Jerry was 0:15:58.440 --> 0:16:02.160 made to feel like he was his expertise, he was 0:16:02.200 --> 0:16:06.640 the eminence, perfectly said. But the scenes, and I mean, 0:16:06.720 --> 0:16:10.560 I've been in films before with people and some of 0:16:10.600 --> 0:16:14.000 it this um dichotomy with them, I don't want to 0:16:14.000 --> 0:16:18.760 say tension, but some of that relationship with them resulted 0:16:18.760 --> 0:16:22.040 in a really good film for Stage Place, and sometimes 0:16:22.040 --> 0:16:24.680 it didn't. People always say, oh, you you this kind 0:16:24.680 --> 0:16:27.520 of crackle that you create. There's a magic that happens, 0:16:27.520 --> 0:16:30.040 and there's something that happens that's palpable on screen. I 0:16:30.040 --> 0:16:33.480 don't always buy that. However, you and he, it is 0:16:33.600 --> 0:16:37.800 mesmerizing you and he on screen together. I can't think 0:16:37.840 --> 0:16:39.800 of who's going to break a glass and shove the 0:16:39.880 --> 0:16:44.560 jagget edge? Whose neck first? Yes, well that's you know. 0:16:44.760 --> 0:16:46.720 That was because I just stayed in the moment, and 0:16:46.760 --> 0:16:51.360 as intimidated as I was, didn't. I didn't. I didn't relent. 0:16:51.880 --> 0:16:54.400 I held my ground, which you know, was he expecting 0:16:54.400 --> 0:16:55.840 you to relent? You think? Was he expecting you to 0:16:55.880 --> 0:17:00.160 kind of break down? Maybe weaker on the film need 0:17:00.160 --> 0:17:04.639 you to Be and that, and then that kept rising 0:17:04.680 --> 0:17:09.480 the temperature, you know, for him. I was respectful and 0:17:09.640 --> 0:17:13.159 slightly in awe of Jerry Lewis. You're in a movie 0:17:13.320 --> 0:17:16.040 and you more than with your own. I mean, you 0:17:16.080 --> 0:17:18.720 were right up there delivering the goods in the film 0:17:18.760 --> 0:17:24.400 with Robert de Niro and Jerry Lewis in this quirky, 0:17:24.560 --> 0:17:27.120 weird movie that everybody loves I know who no knows 0:17:27.160 --> 0:17:30.160 that movie and loves you in it, and the weirdness 0:17:30.160 --> 0:17:32.160 of it, you know, you and him, everybody all taped 0:17:32.240 --> 0:17:34.320 up and everything in the way you had all that done. 0:17:35.119 --> 0:17:37.159 Uh what happens after that? I mean, does everything just 0:17:37.680 --> 0:17:40.240 change for you? Well, it did change for me. But 0:17:40.359 --> 0:17:42.080 at the same time, I don't know if I was 0:17:42.480 --> 0:17:45.600 savvy enough at that time to like things were different. 0:17:45.680 --> 0:17:48.800 I mean, now you're like every young actors are like 0:17:48.840 --> 0:17:50.920 they they're plugged in like that. You know, they've got 0:17:50.960 --> 0:17:54.280 their machinery all ready to go. I got a team, 0:17:54.359 --> 0:17:56.080 and back then it was just sort of more like, Wow, 0:17:56.080 --> 0:17:58.280 I just did this great movie. But now I want 0:17:58.280 --> 0:17:59.639 to kind of just go out in the road and 0:17:59.640 --> 0:18:03.119 do my shows and you know things, Yeah, things, of course, 0:18:03.400 --> 0:18:07.399 we're at a different level, you know. But looking back, 0:18:07.640 --> 0:18:09.840 had had it been now, I guess I probably would 0:18:09.880 --> 0:18:14.399 have been more craven in a certain wors. Yeah, but 0:18:14.480 --> 0:18:17.640 I feel like I feel like young actors are they're 0:18:17.720 --> 0:18:20.280 just so like everything is just like a machine, like 0:18:20.280 --> 0:18:22.960 I said, a machinery, Like somebody grabs you, and there's 0:18:23.040 --> 0:18:25.840 you know, there's the public system, and there's the agent, 0:18:25.880 --> 0:18:28.840 and there's the manager, and then there's the handler, and 0:18:28.840 --> 0:18:31.520 then there's you know, and everybody's just like kept, you know, 0:18:31.960 --> 0:18:34.880 in a certain sort of position where they're not really 0:18:34.960 --> 0:18:38.919 free to like move and be like totally outrageous or groovy. 0:18:38.960 --> 0:18:42.000 You know. Well, I think that there's certainly people who 0:18:42.600 --> 0:18:45.480 in my life, to myself included who and this is 0:18:45.520 --> 0:18:47.879 a big swing here. I don't don't necessarily think you're 0:18:47.880 --> 0:18:50.560 gonna mind agree, but I tend to think that years ago, 0:18:50.600 --> 0:18:52.520 when I was first making films, and I don't mean 0:18:52.560 --> 0:18:55.160 small parts and films in the eighties, but playing lead 0:18:55.240 --> 0:18:57.880 roles in films in the nineties, You do a movie 0:18:58.119 --> 0:19:01.880 and it was over. Yes, you shared about I want 0:19:01.880 --> 0:19:03.119 to go on the road and do my show and 0:19:03.119 --> 0:19:05.320 what have you. But I had much more faith in 0:19:05.400 --> 0:19:08.760 providence about what was going to happen. I kind of 0:19:08.840 --> 0:19:10.359 lead back and I go, well, I'm gonna go do 0:19:10.400 --> 0:19:12.840 a play. I'm gonna go do this. And I thought, well, 0:19:12.880 --> 0:19:15.600 only a fool thinks you can really manage this whole 0:19:15.640 --> 0:19:18.840 thing and make yourself successful. That's that's luck. And I 0:19:18.880 --> 0:19:20.960 get a script sent to me, and I would evaluate 0:19:21.000 --> 0:19:23.920 the script based on the instincts I had, and I've 0:19:23.920 --> 0:19:25.800 been scripted and I go, I don't think this is 0:19:25.920 --> 0:19:28.359 very interesting. And my agents would call me up and go, hey, man, 0:19:29.280 --> 0:19:32.040 you need to come in here and read the script again. 0:19:32.119 --> 0:19:34.359 In my office, I have a special lamp I have 0:19:34.440 --> 0:19:37.240 on my desk and we're gonna put that on the script. 0:19:37.840 --> 0:19:39.960 And the lamp is a lamp that projects onto each 0:19:40.000 --> 0:19:42.000 page the amount of money you're going to be paid 0:19:42.000 --> 0:19:45.680 for this movie, because it's some millions of done. And 0:19:45.760 --> 0:19:48.760 now I feel like people have bought so many young 0:19:48.880 --> 0:19:50.880 people have they're making movies they don't want to make. 0:19:50.960 --> 0:19:52.520 They're making you they don't even know if they want 0:19:52.520 --> 0:19:55.159 to make, but they've been sold on the idea that 0:19:55.200 --> 0:19:57.560 this is the movie they should be doing to stiff 0:19:57.560 --> 0:20:00.200 in their career. Right. Well, Also there's there's a many 0:20:00.200 --> 0:20:03.760 films now that you know, the big you know, um, 0:20:03.800 --> 0:20:07.720 either sci fi or you know, or the superhero. It's 0:20:07.760 --> 0:20:10.720 just it's a different time. It will never be what 0:20:10.880 --> 0:20:13.239 it was in the eighties and nineties. Let's face it, though, 0:20:13.320 --> 0:20:15.320 you and I we chopped one of our hands off 0:20:15.359 --> 0:20:17.240 to be in one of these Marvel movies. You know, 0:20:17.440 --> 0:20:19.280 I think and I think we'd both be great. I 0:20:19.520 --> 0:20:23.880 think I'd be a great kind of evil. Um. So yeah. 0:20:23.920 --> 0:20:25.679 So then I after that, you know, I did did 0:20:25.720 --> 0:20:28.040 a little bit television, I did a little bit of film, 0:20:28.080 --> 0:20:30.520 and then I did a lot of performing, and then 0:20:30.600 --> 0:20:32.800 I sort of, you know, really broke out as a 0:20:32.800 --> 0:20:35.760 live performer. I did my first one woman show here 0:20:35.800 --> 0:20:39.800 in New York without You I'm Nothing, which was legendary 0:20:39.960 --> 0:20:43.439 and became an actual film, not like a special, but 0:20:43.520 --> 0:20:46.560 we made it into a film that was quite interesting 0:20:46.600 --> 0:20:49.080