Speaker 1: Hi, everybody. Welcome to another edition of Packers Unscripted from
Speaker 1: Packers dot Com. I am Mike Spaffer, joined as always
Speaker 1: by my trusted colleague Weston Hodkoitz. We're coming to you
Speaker 1: here from our studios at lambeau Field and Wes. We
Speaker 1: got another sort of double duty show here to do
Speaker 1: because we have another Thursday night game coming up. We
Speaker 1: haven't yet reviewed the Packers last game.
Speaker 2: So what is today?
Speaker 1: Yeah? What day of the week is it? Right now?
Speaker 2: Actually day?
Speaker 1: But we're going to start with the Packers Thanksgiving Night
Speaker 1: victory thirty to seventeen over the Miami Dolphins was the
Speaker 1: final score. And I mean Packers did what they needed
Speaker 1: to do, getting two home wins in five days to
Speaker 1: get themselves to nine and three, And this one they
Speaker 1: went about it a little bit differently, But what was
Speaker 1: similar to the San Francisco game is the Packers jumped
Speaker 1: out on top, built themselves a big lead, and then
Speaker 1: kind of rode that to the finish line and walked
Speaker 1: out a lambo with another w.
Speaker 2: These two games, Mike, between San Francisco and Miami again
Speaker 2: illustrate how important a fast start is in the National
Speaker 2: Football League because it's not just about the points you
Speaker 2: put on the board. It's how you really tell the opposition.
Speaker 2: You got to change your game plan. Yeah, just like
Speaker 2: that game against the forty nine ers, the Dolphins were
Speaker 2: not able to get their run game going at all. Yes,
Speaker 2: I know, two of three for three oun and sixty
Speaker 2: five yards. I get all of that. But the fact
Speaker 2: was is that from the very beginning they were having
Speaker 2: to play from behind, and I just felt like green
Speaker 2: Bay how they were able to really manipulate what Miami
Speaker 2: wanted to do offensively, mixed in with a couple pivotal
Speaker 2: plays early on that sort of just shifted their momentum
Speaker 2: into green Bay's favor up. A lot of guys talked
Speaker 2: about it after the San Francisco game, they felt like
Speaker 2: that was a complete performance. I thought, by and large,
Speaker 2: this was a complete performance. A lot of stuff you
Speaker 2: can still improve upon, things you can correct, But I
Speaker 2: think over these last three games, really, these three games
Speaker 2: since they last saw the Detroit Lions, you've seen the
Speaker 2: green Bay Packers start to round into form.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this game quite frankly, you talk about momentum shifts,
Speaker 1: there was a big one very early on because Packers
Speaker 1: got the ball first. But went three and out missed
Speaker 1: Jordan Love missed a deep throat to Jaden Reid when
Speaker 1: he was open. Packers had to punt, but those cold
Speaker 1: swirling wins. In the late evening at lambeau Field, messed
Speaker 1: with Miami's putt returner Washington there he ends up muffing
Speaker 1: the punt. Robert Rochelle recovers. It's a first in goal
Speaker 1: situation from the nine yard line, and the Packers went
Speaker 1: from three and out to three plays and in the
Speaker 1: end zone and they were up seven to nothing. A
Speaker 1: big play by the special teams, and.
Speaker 2: As we were talking about with Rich Pasaccia on Monday night,
Speaker 2: the Packers being able to start that game the longest
Speaker 2: kick return of the season by Keishawn Nixon blocked up
Speaker 2: very well. Looks like they're going to have that explosive
Speaker 2: start they want. Offensively, did not have the series they
Speaker 2: were looking for. Josh Jacobs even said it when I
Speaker 2: was asking him in the locker room afterwards. He felt
Speaker 2: like that was the only run, even though he only
Speaker 2: had forty three rushing yards, he felt like that was
Speaker 2: the only run he wanted back. He just wasn't happy
Speaker 2: with how he cut back. Packers end up having to
Speaker 2: punt despite having phenomenal field position. But then Robert Rochelle
Speaker 2: makes it right and as we learned about afterwards, dealing
Speaker 2: with a lot of stuff on the personal side, had
Speaker 2: found out earlier on Thanksgiving morning that unfortunately two of
Speaker 2: his childhood friends had been killed down in Louisiana. Played
Speaker 2: through it, played with a purpose, and came up with
Speaker 2: a huge moment there. Also want to say too, I
Speaker 2: mean for green Bay Special Teams. I mean, we were
Speaker 2: talking about this whole group sort of rounding into form
Speaker 2: some really impressive work that the special Teams unit has
Speaker 2: done really in every phase and every unit and every
Speaker 2: core special teams area, and Green Bay gets the ball back,
Speaker 2: they turn it into a Jad and Reed touchdown, and
Speaker 2: they were often ronic.
Speaker 1: Yeah. From there, the offense I felt, I felt much
Speaker 1: like the San Francisco game. The Packers established what they
Speaker 1: wanted to on the ground. They set the tone on
Speaker 1: the ground with the running game, and it was a
Speaker 1: combination of Jacobs and Emmanuel Wilson and Jayden Reed. It's
Speaker 1: a nice run on an end around. I think by
Speaker 1: the end of the first half, not only had the
Speaker 1: Packers topped one hundred yards rushing. They had four different
Speaker 1: ball carriers with twenty yards rushing, which just told you
Speaker 1: how much the focus was on, Okay, run the football,
Speaker 1: try to get Miami's excuse me defense on its heels
Speaker 1: a little bit, and then by the end of the
Speaker 1: game you look up and it's like, oh, Jordan Love. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he also threw for two hundred and seventy five yards
Speaker 1: and the offense ended up having a pretty darn efiichent night.
Speaker 2: You have a longer history here with the Packers and
Speaker 2: covering games, but I can tell you what this game
Speaker 2: felt like. To me. It felt like the twenty fourteen season,
Speaker 2: and what I mean by that is that was the
Speaker 2: one year where you got prime Eddie Lacy mixed with
Speaker 2: a relatively healthy Aaron Rodgers, and you saw what Eddie
Speaker 2: Lacey did for Rogers during that season and how he
Speaker 2: was really able to compliment everything he was doing in
Speaker 2: the passing game. Yes, Josh Jacobs did not go off
Speaker 2: for one hundred and fifty rushing yards in this game,
Speaker 2: and he had to fight for a lot of the
Speaker 2: yards that he did get. But whether it was what
Speaker 2: he the short yarded situations that he converted in in
Speaker 2: some of the passing game stuff that he did as well.
Speaker 2: Those two things I thought were really a catalyst for
Speaker 2: what Green Bay did offensively. Green Bay already over two
Speaker 2: hundred carries this season with Josh Jacobs, and for a
Speaker 2: guy that was brought in and heralded as such a
Speaker 2: All Pro rushing champion, a durable back, he's lived up
Speaker 2: to the hype here through the first thirteen weeks.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you mentioned though, what he did in the passing game.
Speaker 1: He ends up with over one hundred yards from scrimmage
Speaker 1: in this game. When he takes the checkdown throw in
Speaker 1: the fourth cores or makes one of the best open
Speaker 1: field moves we've seen all season long ends up getting
Speaker 1: forty nine yards there. So between the rushing and the receiving,
Speaker 1: Jacobs goes over one hundred. The Packers go three out
Speaker 1: of five in the red zone, which I think has
Speaker 1: been not only not only the reduction in turnovers. Since
Speaker 1: the first Detroit game. The Packers will only turned the
Speaker 1: ball over once in their last three games. But after
Speaker 1: that Detroit game, the first one, the Packers had gone
Speaker 1: one for four in the red zone in that game,
Speaker 1: and they had dropped a twenty ninth in the league
Speaker 1: in red zone offense. Since then, the Packers have converted
Speaker 1: eleven out of fifteen red zone opportunities into touchdown. They
Speaker 1: have climbed from twenty ninth in the league in red
Speaker 1: zone offense to eighteenth. They've jumped eleven spots in three
Speaker 1: weeks because that efficiency has ratcheted up so high. So
Speaker 1: that has been a major improvement in where you see
Speaker 1: that in the turnovers where this Packers team is very,
Speaker 1: very different from the first one that faced the Lions
Speaker 1: a month ago.
Speaker 2: One thousand percent. And I just want to mention this
Speaker 2: to kind of to go off that as well. So
Speaker 2: many times the buzzword with football teams is what's your identity?
Speaker 2: And it sometimes gets overblown. Sometimes there's truth to it,
Speaker 2: but I think a lot of times it gets overblown.
Speaker 2: What I look for in NFL teams is not necessarily
Speaker 2: what your identity is, but what are you good at?
Speaker 2: And I think what we've seen is the Packers season
Speaker 2: has gone on as we've found out, Okay, inside the
Speaker 2: red zone, whether it's a guy like Tucker Craft that
Speaker 2: can extend plays, get those yards after catch, you know
Speaker 2: you can throw it down short ten yards of the
Speaker 2: goal line and he's gonna be able to make make
Speaker 2: a push for the end zone, or a guy like
Speaker 2: Josh Jacobs being able to convert in those those short
Speaker 2: area goal to go situations. There's confidence there. You don't
Speaker 2: you don't have to reinvent the game of football. You
Speaker 2: can play the game the way it's intended. Your guys
Speaker 2: can win. I think that has been very encouraging from
Speaker 2: the Packer's side of things. In addition to the fact
Speaker 2: that you've seen it didn't so much happened in this game,
Speaker 2: but you know the explosive plays in the passing game.
Speaker 2: You know, Christian Watson did have the forty six yard reception,
Speaker 2: and obviously we've seen him go off for some big
Speaker 2: plays here the last couple weeks, but it can be
Speaker 2: a twenty three yard Jaden reed Cary as well. Yeah,
Speaker 2: the multitude of options that Green Bay has offensively at
Speaker 2: its fingertips. The best thing that they've done all season long,
Speaker 2: whether Jordan Love has been in the lineup or not,
Speaker 2: is moving the football. And over these last three games now,
Speaker 2: we've seen them start to not only have that type
Speaker 2: of production, but be able to carry that through in
Speaker 2: the red zone and turn those into touchdowns.
Speaker 1: Yeah, eleven out of fifteen the last three games has
Speaker 1: been pretty impressive and it's why the Packers have been
Speaker 1: putting up the point totals that they have. On the
Speaker 1: defensive side of the ball. You mentioned it earlier, a
Speaker 1: lot of passing yards for Tua Tagabaloa. It became pretty
Speaker 1: obvious early on what Jeff Hafley's game plan was here.
Speaker 1: The Packers did not have jyr Or Alexander once again,
Speaker 1: the team's number one cornerback still not back from the
Speaker 1: knee injury. He has come back to practice this week.
Speaker 1: We'll see if he's going to be available Thursday night
Speaker 1: in Detroit. But without your number one corner Look, you're
Speaker 1: not gonna line up Mann de Man against Tyreek Hill
Speaker 1: and Jalen Waddle with the Miami Dolphins when your best
Speaker 1: cornerback is not available. So, Jeff haffley the game plan
Speaker 1: was was try to flood the zones with it. Flooded
Speaker 1: the passing lanes with your zone coverage, keep everything in
Speaker 1: front of you, rally to the ball and make tackles.
Speaker 1: We talked about last week how you can't let these
Speaker 1: guys break tackle right because they take the short passes
Speaker 1: and turn them into explosive gains, and I thought the
Speaker 1: Packers did that. Yes, it got tiring. It got tiring
Speaker 1: to see John hu Smith, in particular the tight end
Speaker 1: for the Dolphins catching the passes over the middle and
Speaker 1: getting eight or twelve or thirteen yard chunks as the
Speaker 1: Dolphins were trying to come back from the big deficit.
Speaker 1: But the Packers were okay with that because a the
Speaker 1: Dolphins were going to burn some clock in order to
Speaker 1: try to come back, and then b at the end
Speaker 1: of the day, the Miami Dolphins, one of the most
Speaker 1: explosive offenses in the league, had one pass completion for
Speaker 1: more than sixteen yards. Right, I mean the game plan,
Speaker 1: the game plan was exactly that. And then where this
Speaker 1: game hinged defensively was when the scores twenty seven to eleven.
Speaker 1: Miami drives down and they are at second and goal
Speaker 1: in the one yard line. It's early in the fourth quarter,
Speaker 1: so a touchdown on a two point conversion there makes
Speaker 1: it a one possession game, would make it an eight
Speaker 1: point game. But from second and goal on the one
Speaker 1: yard line, you get a run stop from Rashaun Gary,
Speaker 1: you get a great pass breakup on a difficult play
Speaker 1: by Keishawn Nixon on the play action to the right,
Speaker 1: throwback to the left to John new Smith, and then
Speaker 1: you get the fourth downsack quay Walker with the big
Speaker 1: push from TJ. Slayton up the middle, really good coverage
Speaker 1: in the end zone by Nixon and Valentine which two
Speaker 1: has got nowhere to go with the ball, and Walker
Speaker 1: eventually finishes it that goal line stand where the with
Speaker 1: a touchdown on a two point conversion, Miami had a
Speaker 1: chance to make it a one possession game there in
Speaker 1: the fourth quarter. It didn't happen. The Dolphins never really
Speaker 1: did get close, and the Packers put it away from there.
Speaker 2: It was the key to the game. Obviously, I focused
Speaker 2: my actual story that's called Key the Game on Rochelle
Speaker 2: in his fumble recovery early, but I felt like after
Speaker 2: that the air completely left the balloon. The Packers were
Speaker 2: able to finish that thing. And what I like the
Speaker 2: most about that series was, yes, it was it was
Speaker 2: Rashan on first down, but then it ended up being
Speaker 2: the guys that you want to see making plays. Not
Speaker 2: that you don't want to see that with Rashaan, but
Speaker 2: it's almost expected with Quay Walker, a guy that has been,
Speaker 2: you know, had some ups and downs this season, and
Speaker 2: I think everybody from Matt Laflorida to Jeff Hafley and
Speaker 2: even I think to some extent Quay himself has talked
Speaker 2: about you know, he's playing his best ball right now
Speaker 2: and intangible wise, fundamentals wise, just what he brings to
Speaker 2: the table. On paper, he is a every down middle
Speaker 2: linebacker in this league. He is a mic linebacker with speed.
Speaker 2: And I felt like this game, especially with not having
Speaker 2: Edger and Cooper, they were going to need to use
Speaker 2: a little bit more of his blitzing ability and they
Speaker 2: did that, and yeah, b and right next to him,
Speaker 2: alongside of him, you have Isaiah McDuffie, who had an
Speaker 2: ankle injury that Matt Lefuller talked about. He didn't even
Speaker 2: think coming out of that San Francisco game he was
Speaker 2: going to be able to make the turn to Miami.
Speaker 2: Jeff Hafley then added they weren't even sure if he
Speaker 2: was gonna be able to finish the second half against
Speaker 2: the forty nine ers. Not only that, McDuffie plays almost
Speaker 2: ninety percent of the snaps, has ten tackles, force as
Speaker 2: a fumble, a key breakup on a third down pass
Speaker 2: that ended up leading to another turnover. On downs, the
Speaker 2: Packers came through with the guys that are sort of
Speaker 2: seen as I think, the complimentary pieces. And when you
Speaker 2: have that, you have a guy like TJ. Slayton getting
Speaker 2: some push. That's what gives you the confidence now that
Speaker 2: this is a unit to be you know, trifled with. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and could potentially help you win some of these games
Speaker 2: into the month of December.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that sequence at the end of the first half
Speaker 1: is worth mentioning here too before we move on, because
Speaker 1: the score is twenty one to three. The Packers are
Speaker 1: sitting on a pretty good lead, but Miami's got the
Speaker 1: ball late in the first half. They cross midfield. They're
Speaker 1: looking to get some points and Miami's going to get
Speaker 1: the ball coming out at the start of the third quarter,
Speaker 1: third down and five, the Dolphins are not yet in
Speaker 1: field goal range. They need to get this first down
Speaker 1: to get into field goal range. Third down and five,
Speaker 1: and you know, a dump off pass over the middle.
Speaker 1: McDuffie comes up and makes a big hit. I believe
Speaker 1: it was Washington. Washington Milikua the receiver slash returner. Washington
Speaker 1: takes that hit from McDuffie can't hang out of the
Speaker 1: ball incomplete pass fourth and five, and Tua makes a
Speaker 1: bad throw on fourth and five, so it's a turnover.
Speaker 1: On downs. The Packers get it back two seconds on
Speaker 1: the clock, but the Packers have all three of their timeouts,
Speaker 1: use a couple of passes to tuck her craft a
Speaker 1: nice run by Chris Brooks get in range using the timeouts. Wisely,
Speaker 1: Brandon McManus comes out and drills a field goal at
Speaker 1: the end of the first half. So instead of looking
Speaker 1: at possibly twenty one to six, if the Dolphins get
Speaker 1: a touchdown and then they're getting the ball coming out
Speaker 1: to start of the third quarter at twenty one to six,
Speaker 1: instead the game is twenty four to three.
Speaker 2: It was.
Speaker 1: It was a clear six point swing, where then it
Speaker 1: wasn't as crucial in a sense that Miami was going
Speaker 1: to get the ball starting the third quarter because the
Speaker 1: Packers had then added to their lead. That sequence there,
Speaker 1: which really in my mind, started with the big hit
Speaker 1: by McDuffie to break up the third down pass. That
Speaker 1: played a big part in how this game unfolded as well.
Speaker 2: And things could have shifted there too. Miami getting the
Speaker 2: ball in the second half. I mean being able to,
Speaker 2: you know, do the double up. That's something that everyone
Speaker 2: under the Shanahan tree mostly wants to always accom Yeah,
Speaker 2: and even when it looks like twenty four to three,
Speaker 2: well that score changes if it suddenly becomes twenty four
Speaker 2: to seventeen. And the Packers didn't allow that to happen.
Speaker 2: They actually ended up tacking on some more points. I
Speaker 2: thought it was very important too. Matt Lafleur made kind
Speaker 2: of a tongue in cheek joke about it at the
Speaker 2: podium on Sunday, where he said, yeah, I mean, I mean,
Speaker 2: you know, you got to save those timeouts right in
Speaker 2: the first half. I mean so many times I think
Speaker 2: there's people out there that just think, okay, well the
Speaker 2: second half. You got to save them as long as
Speaker 2: you can the first half, if you need to take
Speaker 2: a few here and there. No, you saw in this game,
Speaker 2: the value of being able to keep all three of
Speaker 2: those timeouts twenty two seconds gets a lot longer if
Speaker 2: you can stop the clock three times, and certainly.
Speaker 1: And you can use the whole field. Absolutely, when you
Speaker 1: can use the whole field, because you make the defense
Speaker 1: defend the whole field, not just oh we can defend
Speaker 1: the sideline, tackle them in bounds. The clock is going
Speaker 1: to run, They're not gonna be able to guess in
Speaker 1: kicking range. Right, So that was that was definitely a
Speaker 1: key sequence in this game. We do have to move on, though,
Speaker 1: to talk about this game coming up Thursday night in Detroit,
Speaker 1: and we will do that right after this sponsored a
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Speaker 1: Subs fifty plus years of better. All right, well, it's
Speaker 1: another Thursday game. It's another Thursday night game. This one
Speaker 1: will be at Ford Field in Detroit, the nine and
Speaker 1: three Packers visiting the eleven and one Detroit Lions. The
Speaker 1: Lions a close shave on Thanksgiving, completely dominate the first
Speaker 1: half against the Chicago Bears, and then they are hanging
Speaker 1: on for dear life to not let the game go
Speaker 1: to overtime. And the Bears end up batching the whole
Speaker 1: final sequence, they get their coach fired and all that.
Speaker 1: The bottom line is, the Detroit Lions are eleven and one.
Speaker 1: The Packers are two games back at nine to three.
Speaker 1: And let's be real here, Wes, if the Packers are
Speaker 1: going to have any chance, any realistic chance of winning
Speaker 1: the NFC North, they have to win this game on
Speaker 1: Thursday night. If the Packers go to Detroit and lose
Speaker 1: by all means not all is lost, but it becomes
Speaker 1: wildcard or bust at that point. So if the Packers
Speaker 1: are going to threaten the Lions for the NFC North title,
Speaker 1: and the Vikings for that matter, it's on the line
Speaker 1: Thursday night at Ford Field.
Speaker 2: I saw this tweet, but when I give their proper credit,
Speaker 2: I believe was Zach Cruz was the one that tweeted this.
Speaker 2: The Packers, even if they beat the Lions and the Vikings,
Speaker 2: I still think there's like a thirty six percent chance
Speaker 2: of them winning the division. So losing either of those
Speaker 2: games obviously would diminish that potential. Yeah, that's with the
Speaker 2: New York Times playoff generator. All that being said, the
Speaker 2: Detroit Lions, I thought, what Larry's point was in three
Speaker 2: things might have been the most salient thing any of
Speaker 2: us have said all season, where so many people, myself included,
Speaker 2: We're watching that game against the Bears being like, all right,
Speaker 2: come on, Chicago, let's pull this thing out. And Larry said,
Speaker 2: He's like, no, if there's going to be a wake
Speaker 2: up call, it should be against the Packers. And I
Speaker 2: think there's a lot to be said for that. The
Speaker 2: Packers momentum and how they've built since that loss to
Speaker 2: the Lions has been really critical to how this season
Speaker 2: has played out. And as Xavier McKinney said, he actually
Speaker 2: sent a text message to some of his teammates after
Speaker 2: the bye saying, hey, let's just win the rest of
Speaker 2: these things. And he left that game as disappointing as
Speaker 2: it was, as slow as a start as Green Bay
Speaker 2: had against the Lions. He didn't feel like they were
Speaker 2: all class. He didn't leave that game feeling like, hey,
Speaker 2: we can't play with these guys. The Packers had a
Speaker 2: menagerie of errors and penalties and setbacks that they just
Speaker 2: could not overcome in that game. Yea, and now suddenly
Speaker 2: everything's back there for you. Nine wins. I think there's
Speaker 2: a ninety six percent chance right now green Bay making
Speaker 2: the playoffs with five games to go on the regular season.
Speaker 2: But you gotta go one game at a time, and
Speaker 2: there is no bigger game than going back into Ford
Speaker 2: Field just over a year after they played and defeated
Speaker 2: and upset the Detroit Lions on their home field and
Speaker 2: going back and trying to do it once again.
Speaker 1: Well, the Packers are a very different team from the
Speaker 1: first meeting, not only in the ways that we've been
Speaker 1: talking about offensively, defensively, the way they're playing, certainly, the
Speaker 1: way the running game is playing, the reduction in turnovers,
Speaker 1: the red zone efficiency, what the run defense for Green
Speaker 1: Bay is doing as of late, Christian McCaffrey, Devon h Chan,
Speaker 1: Raheem Mostert, the running backs the Packers have faced the
Speaker 1: last couple of weeks have not been able to do
Speaker 1: anything on the ground. The Packers are also different from
Speaker 1: a health standpoint compared to the first game against Detroit.
Speaker 1: Jordan Love is certainly healthier he was coming. He had
Speaker 1: just had the groin injury the week before in Jacksonville
Speaker 1: when and basically didn't really practice all week long leading
Speaker 1: up to the first Detroit game. He was healthy enough
Speaker 1: to play, but obviously was not himself. Jordan Love is
Speaker 1: in a very different place. Josh Myers, Williams, JayR Alexander
Speaker 1: all missed the first Detroit game. That was the only
Speaker 1: game this season the Packers have not had their main
Speaker 1: starting five for the offensive line, where they had to
Speaker 1: move Elton Jenkins to center and all that, so hopefully
Speaker 1: the continuity is there for that group. Evan Williams has
Speaker 1: since returned to the lineup from his hamstring injury that
Speaker 1: forced him to miss the first Detroit game, and as
Speaker 1: I said before, Alexander is back at practice this week
Speaker 1: trying to work his way back from the knee injury.
Speaker 1: We'll see it, We'll see if he's available. So health wise,
Speaker 1: I think the Packers are a very different team than
Speaker 1: the first time against Detroit. On the Lions side, the
Speaker 1: Lions are banged up on defense. This is a very
Speaker 1: different looking defense than the one the Packers faced a
Speaker 1: month ago because now Hal Hutchinson was already out. But
Speaker 1: they have had a number of injuries since then. Linebackers
Speaker 1: who have gone on injured reserve and now some defensive
Speaker 1: linemen who seem iffy for the game. As to whether
Speaker 1: or not they're going to be able to play offensively.
Speaker 1: The Lions are healthy, and this is the unit that
Speaker 1: the Lions are relying on. This is the unit that
Speaker 1: for Detroit they're looking at. These are the guys who
Speaker 1: are gonna take them to the promised Land. I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, Jared Goff, the two running backs, Saint Brown, Laporta,
Speaker 1: all those guys. It feels like it's going to be
Speaker 1: a very different matchup in a lot of ways than
Speaker 1: a month ago. But the one thing that isn't different
Speaker 1: is Detroit's offense.
Speaker 2: Do you know, Mike, how many players the Detroit Lions
Speaker 2: now have on injured reserve after they made some moves
Speaker 2: this week.
Speaker 1: I don't, but I'm guessing it's probably upwards of thirteen.
Speaker 2: Eighteen got eighteen. I mean, they lost several guys at
Speaker 2: the beginning of the season two even before the year,
Speaker 2: they've been beat up. And as much as people talk
Speaker 2: about Aiden Hutchinson, and you should, He's was potentially the
Speaker 2: NFL defensive player of the Year at the time in
Speaker 2: which he got injured. Yep. But Alex Azeloni, I say
Speaker 2: it probably every time you and I do the show,
Speaker 2: I think is the most underrated guy potentially in the
Speaker 2: National Football League, but certainly when it comes to defensive
Speaker 2: and lineback and play, this guy what he's turned himself into.
Speaker 2: He is the heartbeat of that defense. He is the
Speaker 2: guy that is the rallying cry for that team. And
Speaker 2: to not have him available right now I think has
Speaker 2: been a big hit for them. They've made some move.
Speaker 2: Sadarius Smith obviously is now in Detroit. He has two
Speaker 2: sacks and three games. They are moving him everywhere once again,
Speaker 2: much like the Packers once did. If we know anything
Speaker 2: about Sadarius when it comes to him coming out of
Speaker 2: the gate, starting with a new team, a fresh start,
Speaker 2: he always plays really well. He did it in Green Bay,
Speaker 2: he did at Minnesota, and he certainly did it in Cleveland.
Speaker 2: So seeing him the kind of the enthusiasm and the
Speaker 2: energy that he's injected too that defense, you can feel it.
Speaker 2: But the fact of the matter is is they still
Speaker 2: are a hurting unit and there are a lot of
Speaker 2: players in that secondary that I've had to kind of
Speaker 2: fight through some things as well. They still have their
Speaker 2: one two punch Kirby Joseph Brian Branch probably two as
Speaker 2: good as they get in the National Football League, especially
Speaker 2: with the versatility of Branch to pretty much move him
Speaker 2: anywhere you want. He is an incredible chess piece. Offensively,
Speaker 2: You're right, they are healthy. Taylor Decker does have some
Speaker 2: questions though at left tackle. We'll see how this week
Speaker 2: works out for him.
Speaker 1: That's right. Dan Skipper has started a couple of games
Speaker 1: at left tackle, including the Thanksgiving game against the Chicago Bears.
Speaker 1: Skipper was in there in place of Decker.
Speaker 2: And Skipper's kind of like the Evan Smith of that line,
Speaker 2: like he's the guy that just always seems to be
Speaker 2: in there if there's an injury that creeps up and
Speaker 2: has been sort of a dependable letteran for them as well.
Speaker 2: But the big difference for the Lions compared to that
Speaker 2: first game is Jamison Williams is available. He's not suspended,
Speaker 2: he's back. He's making huge plays for them. The contrast
Speaker 2: of his explosive style with just the consistency of Amen
Speaker 2: Ross Saint Brown, that is a very difficult thing to
Speaker 2: deal with. Sam Laporta has battled some injuries. We'll see
Speaker 2: exactly where he's at physically and how he performs in
Speaker 2: this game. But with a one to two punch in
Speaker 2: the backfield like gibbson Montgomery and potentially both of those
Speaker 2: guys going over a thousand yards this season at said
Speaker 2: last time. And Ben Johnson is going to be a
Speaker 2: head coach in the National Football League this year, this
Speaker 2: will be his last year. Is the offensive coordinator of
Speaker 2: the Lions. You cannot see it any other way. He's
Speaker 2: going to be the most highly coveted coach in the
Speaker 2: National Football League in twenty twenty five. But in the
Speaker 2: here and now, man, this is about as explosive and
Speaker 2: as consistent as an offense as there is in the NFL.
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, I mean, Jared Goff is still completing seventy
Speaker 1: two percent of his passes on the season. His season
Speaker 1: passer rating is in the triple digits, over one hundred.
Speaker 1: I added up what running backs David Montgomery and Jamier
Speaker 1: Gibbs have done. This is crazy west three hundred and
Speaker 1: twenty nine carries, one thousand, six hundred and ninety three yards,
Speaker 1: and twenty one rushing touchdowns in twelve games. Yep, I mean,
Speaker 1: those those are tremendous numbers for a one to two
Speaker 1: running back punch for an entire season. And those guys
Speaker 1: have done that three twenty nine, sixteen, ninety three, and
Speaker 1: twenty one in twelve games. It is it's remarkable the
Speaker 1: offensive machine that the Lions have become. Now here's the
Speaker 1: interesting thing, though, Like they looked like they were just
Speaker 1: on their way to a complete and total demolition of
Speaker 1: the Chicago Bears on Thanksgiving with that early game. But
Speaker 1: in the second half, Chicago Bears defense started to stand tall.
Speaker 1: The Bears got their offense going and they made a
Speaker 1: game of it, and the Lions really the Lions never
Speaker 1: put the game away with that offense, as much as
Speaker 1: it was humming in the first half, they did have
Speaker 1: some red zone struggles. They were kicking too many field goals,
Speaker 1: so they didn't put the Bears away there. But then
Speaker 1: they also couldn't put them away in the second half
Speaker 1: because they couldn't get a big time drive going when
Speaker 1: they really needed one. So it's interesting how this is
Speaker 1: has unfolded because because while a lot of people are
Speaker 1: saying the Lions might be the best team in football,
Speaker 1: and at eleven and one, they certainly looked better as
Speaker 1: a one loss team than the Kansas City Chiefs have.
Speaker 1: So I certainly understand that argument, and I take nothing
Speaker 1: away from them. But this isn't a team that played
Speaker 1: perfect football, No and so, and the Packers are going
Speaker 1: in there knowing, hey, Green Bay walked. They they walked
Speaker 1: out of that tunnel at Ford Field last year on
Speaker 1: Thanksgiving for that eleven thirty am Central time kickoff and
Speaker 1: took it to the first place team when not a
Speaker 1: lot of people gave him a chance, and and it was.
Speaker 2: It was.
Speaker 1: It was a win that ended up shaping a lot
Speaker 1: of how the the end of the season unfolded for
Speaker 1: the Packers. If you're Green Bay man, you're looking at
Speaker 1: you're looking at trying to do exactly the same thing
Speaker 1: on Thursday night.
Speaker 2: You and again, I don't know if you're probably gonna
Speaker 2: spin this off into the keys of victory. So I
Speaker 2: don't want to give away too much, but you have
Speaker 2: to play with physicality against Lions. There aren't any losses
Speaker 2: to really point to in terms of what's the key
Speaker 2: to beating them. The one that they did I remember
Speaker 2: that was where they afterwards, you know, you kind of
Speaker 2: heard Dan Campbell fall on the sword for some of
Speaker 2: the coaching decisions that were made in that loss to
Speaker 2: Tampa Bay in Week two. But when it's been close
Speaker 2: whether it was what Chicago did or Houston or somebody's
Speaker 2: that teats, it's when teams played physical. You gotta play
Speaker 2: error free football. You can't set yourself back with penalties.
Speaker 2: You can't turn it over. They'll make you pay for it.
Speaker 2: Possessions are always at a premium with this team, but
Speaker 2: you have to play with physicality and I think Green
Speaker 2: Bay knows that and they saw that. The other thing
Speaker 2: that stands out that's interesting to me is Lions have
Speaker 2: outscored teams three eighty three to two oh three, almost
Speaker 2: doubling up teams, but they've been outscored in the first
Speaker 2: and fourth quarters, fourth quarter. It makes total sense because
Speaker 2: you know they're playing with leads teams.
Speaker 1: Don't, and they've had some games with massive leads, absolutely
Speaker 1: huge leads.
Speaker 2: But a lot of their damage is done in those
Speaker 2: second and third quarters. Forty eight points in the first
Speaker 2: quarter to one seventy four in the second, the third
Speaker 2: quarter one oh six. I mean they are looking to
Speaker 2: double you up at the end of the half. They
Speaker 2: are looking to really take it to you and take
Speaker 2: games away from you. Jacksonville added a lot to that.
Speaker 2: Some of these games have added a lot to those numbers.
Speaker 2: But that being said, this is a very dangerous football
Speaker 2: team if you do not counter their punches. And I
Speaker 2: think the Green Bay Packers with that first matchup at
Speaker 2: Lambeufield understand exactly what the type of opponent that they're
Speaker 2: facing and what you have to do to take them down.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they've basically averaged two touchdowns per game in the
Speaker 1: second quarter, and they get their offense rolling the points
Speaker 1: that they end up putting up before halftime is pretty impressive,
Speaker 1: I would say. If there is if you look at
Speaker 1: the three the three games this year that Detroit has
Speaker 1: looked the most vulnerable, the loss to Tampa Bay back
Speaker 1: in Week two, the very close loss where they had
Speaker 1: to come from behind against Houston, and then last week
Speaker 1: against the Bears. If there's a common thread to those,
Speaker 1: it's the opposing defense rising up in the red zone
Speaker 1: and making the Lions kick field goals instead of getting touchdowns.
Speaker 1: Because when the Lions get touchdowns, they end up with
Speaker 1: forty plus on the board. But you make them kick
Speaker 1: field goals, you can keep the point total in the
Speaker 1: twenties and that gives you a chance. That gives your
Speaker 1: offense a chance, especially right now with their defenses banged
Speaker 1: up as it is, it gives your offense a chance
Speaker 1: to score enough to be able to win. Let's go
Speaker 1: right into keys to victory and a lot of them
Speaker 1: we've already talked about for me, and again I don't
Speaker 1: I'm not taking anything away from the Lions, but looking
Speaker 1: strictly at what the Packers have been doing, you have
Speaker 1: to just keep doing what you're doing. You have to
Speaker 1: keep the turnovers to a minimum, you have to keep
Speaker 1: the red zone efficiency up, you have to keep the
Speaker 1: miscues to a minimum. You know, talking about the drop passes,
Speaker 1: the penalties which I think are down on the defensive
Speaker 1: side of the ball for those I mean the fans
Speaker 1: are frustrated with the jumping off sides, the lining up
Speaker 1: off sides and stuff like that. Don't think the Packers
Speaker 1: aren't frustrated with it as well. Just take a look
Speaker 1: at what Matt Lafleur said at the podium with regard
Speaker 1: to that, Take a look at what Jeff Hafley said
Speaker 1: at the podium with regard to the off sides. The
Speaker 1: Packers just they they haven't figured out how to stop it,
Speaker 1: stop that happening yet, but there is definitely frustration mounting
Speaker 1: in that it can't continue. The Packers know they can't
Speaker 1: do that two, three, four times against the Detroit Lions
Speaker 1: on Thursday night and expect to win. You're just giving away.
Speaker 1: You're giving away too much. So all of those things.
Speaker 1: If the penalties start to come down in the same
Speaker 1: way that the drop passes have been reduced, the turnos
Speaker 1: have been reduced, and the red zone efficiency has gone up.
Speaker 1: If the penalties come down along with that, the Packers
Speaker 1: will give themselves a chance to win this game.
Speaker 2: There is no team in the National Football League, at
Speaker 2: least from I haven't run the whole like sybermetrics numbers
Speaker 2: or anything like that, but when you look at situational
Speaker 2: football on both offense and defense, Detroit is the cream
Speaker 2: of the crop. Offensively, you look at it fourth in
Speaker 2: third down conversions, sixth in red zone, third and goal
Speaker 2: to go. You look at the defensive side of things
Speaker 2: for them, first in third down defense, second in red zone,
Speaker 2: third in goal to go, beat you inside the twenty.
Speaker 2: That's how they win. So what do you have to
Speaker 2: do well? First and foremost, you cannot be in third
Speaker 2: and long against this team. Kirby Joseph is just salivating
Speaker 2: on the back end, wanting you to throw that football
Speaker 2: in those instances. Jordan Love somewhat saw that last, you know,
Speaker 2: on this last encounter with them. Yep, you see him.
Speaker 2: When you get put in adverse situations. If you can't
Speaker 2: run against their front, if you can't cut those yards
Speaker 2: in half on first down, the Detroit Lions are going
Speaker 2: to feast. Conversely, the first thing that the Brad Holmes
Speaker 2: Dan Campbell philosophy since the very beginning, the thing that
Speaker 2: they instilled even when they were a third three win team,
Speaker 2: was we are going to run the football. They did
Speaker 2: it with Jamal Williams. Jamal Williams set the single season
Speaker 2: touchdown record and then they let him go. I mean,
Speaker 2: this is the way that these guys are wired. Yeah,
Speaker 2: they want to run the football. They want to have
Speaker 2: that contrast between Montgomery and Gibbs. Personally, I favor Gibbs.
Speaker 2: I've watched Montgomery for a lot of years. Very talented guy,
Speaker 2: very violent running back, Difficult to bring him to the ground.
Speaker 2: Jam gives is a home run hitter. Jamior Gibbs is
Speaker 2: going to play a long time in the National Football League,
Speaker 2: And I feel like if you can take away the
Speaker 2: explosive gains there you have a chance. What happened in
Speaker 2: that first game was they kept them. And Jeff Hafley
Speaker 2: talked about this, There's so many times where the Packers
Speaker 2: will keep you to a one yard game, a negative
Speaker 2: two yard rush, zero yards, and then they will spin
Speaker 2: one off for sixteen. Green Bay has to keep that
Speaker 2: stuff in check because if you do that, Jared Goff's
Speaker 2: going to be right where he wants to be.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Montgomery is the running back who wears you out.
Speaker 1: Gibbs as the running back who scares you. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Because of that, he's the one that knocks you out.
Speaker 1: Yeah. The home run, the home run hitting ability that
Speaker 1: he has. Well, I already sort of started with in
Speaker 1: the transition to talking about the Lions with where things
Speaker 1: are the NFC North implications of this game, it's pretty
Speaker 1: clear for green Bay. In between green Bay and Detroit,
Speaker 1: of course, you still have the Minnesota Vikings. They are
Speaker 1: at ten and two. They survived a a very close
Speaker 1: call against the Arizona Cardinals. I'll just say they got
Speaker 1: a little bit of help from the officials in that one,
Speaker 1: a little but but hey, we move on.
Speaker 2: But hey, Sam Darnold got his face mask in the
Speaker 2: end zone grabbed at some point.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true, very true.
Speaker 2: They had no chance to when that came out.
Speaker 1: But it's it's funny, Wes. If you if you had
Speaker 1: told me, if you had told me at the beginning
Speaker 1: of the season that the Packers would be nine and
Speaker 1: three going to Detroit for this big Thursday night game,
Speaker 1: but they'd be sitting in third place and two games
Speaker 1: back in the division. It's it. Before the season started,
Speaker 1: it would have been hard to picture like that actually
Speaker 1: being reality. But here we are. The Lions have eleven wins,
Speaker 1: the Vikings have ten, the Packers have nine. The whole
Speaker 1: country is going to be watching. The whole country is
Speaker 1: going to be watching this one. And uh, it's it's
Speaker 1: one of the Uh, it's one of the first really
Speaker 1: really big down the street games in the NFL. Here,
Speaker 1: Oh for sure.
Speaker 2: I mean, if you want to get pumped up for
Speaker 2: this game. I ended up basically writing a story on it.
Speaker 2: On Monday, Dan Campbell's presser where he's talking about this
Speaker 2: race that's beginning in the NFC North, and you know,
Speaker 2: so many guys are like Matt Lafleora's reaction to figuring
Speaker 2: finding out that the Vikings won. Dan Campbell almost seemed
Speaker 2: to be embracing it. He's like, hey, won great, you know,
Speaker 2: like the guy is just wired differently. He is embracing
Speaker 2: that grind and if it means pushing his team to
Speaker 2: being sixteen and one to win the North, he's fine
Speaker 2: with it. That's what it ends up having to be, right.
Speaker 2: But all that being said, I did that story this
Speaker 2: week looking at the NFC North. I found this absolutely
Speaker 2: fascinating because people want to kind of dog on the
Speaker 2: Bears a little bit. Yeah, they've gone through a lot,
Speaker 2: but the Bears have won four games. At one point,
Speaker 2: we're four and two. The thirty four wins that the
Speaker 2: NFC North has a mass through thirteen weeks is already
Speaker 2: the third most of the division, tied for the third
Speaker 2: most that the division has won going back to two
Speaker 2: thousand and two. I mean, in twenty eight they've won
Speaker 2: thirty six games, but that was partially bullied by the
Speaker 2: fact that the Packers won fifteen of their own. The
Speaker 2: competition there and the way that all three of these
Speaker 2: teams are performing, and the fact that they have six
Speaker 2: losses amongst the Lions, Vikings and Packers, and three of
Speaker 2: those were divvied out amongst themselves. I mean, it just
Speaker 2: shows you that the standard and the way that in
Speaker 2: all three of these teams have done it differently. Minnesota
Speaker 2: was the team that I had in the cellar of
Speaker 2: the division this year, right after JJ McCarthy got hurt.
Speaker 2: I'm like, this team's got no chance, and Kevin O'Connell
Speaker 2: does is doing what Kevin O'Connell does and making this
Speaker 2: thing work. Detroit has been the team, the juggernaut everybody
Speaker 2: expects of the being. Green Bay has taken that next
Speaker 2: step through the first three to thirteen weeks. Just I
Speaker 2: know it's a different week, so I don't want to
Speaker 2: get too far ahead of myself, but there's a pivotal
Speaker 2: game at US Banks Stadium this weekend between the Atlanta Falcons,
Speaker 2: who now they're having questions should Michael Pennock should he
Speaker 2: be the quarterback? They're six and six, but still right
Speaker 2: in the thick of this thing for a wide open
Speaker 2: NFC South.
Speaker 1: Right when Kirk Cousins is coming back to Minneapolis, right,
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's it's it's funny how these how
Speaker 1: these things unfold, the and the timing of them.
Speaker 2: And I give the Vikings brass a lot of credit. Man,
Speaker 2: they made a difficult decision to move on from Kirk Cousins,
Speaker 2: But the fact of the matter was they had to
Speaker 2: do better. What they did, they gave it a good shot,
Speaker 2: it didn't work. What's the next step? Who's the next quarterback?
Speaker 2: You get Sam Darnold on a one year deal for
Speaker 2: ten million dollars and he plays half the season like
Speaker 2: an MVP. These are the type of kind of gut
Speaker 2: wrenching moves that you occasionally have to make. The Packers
Speaker 2: had to make one of their own with Aaron Jones. So,
Speaker 2: uh yeah, I mean this is this is a very
Speaker 2: interesting week for the whole NFL and and certainly the
Speaker 2: Packers kick it off against the Lions and if you
Speaker 2: could find a way to win this thing again and
Speaker 2: make it two for two at Ford Field, and suddenly
Speaker 2: the Green Bay Packers and Minnesota Vikings find themselves one
Speaker 2: game behind the Lions with four games left to play.
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, that's the that's the scenario the Packers are
Speaker 1: hoping for, and we will see what unfolds. Before we go,
Speaker 1: I have to let you know the countdown to the
Speaker 1: twenty twenty five NFL Draft has begun. Green Bay is
Speaker 1: hosting this year and you won't want to miss it.
Speaker 1: Mark your calendars for April twenty four through April twenty
Speaker 1: six of twenty twenty five, and visit green Bay dot
Speaker 1: com slash Draft twenty five for more information. With that,
Speaker 1: we'll call it a rap on this edition of Packers Unscripted.
Speaker 1: Be sure to follow all of our coverage of the
Speaker 1: team and of Thursday nights big game from Ford Field
Speaker 1: and Detroit. Wes and I will be there. We will
Speaker 1: have it all for you on Packers dot Com, and
Speaker 1: we'll be back on our regular two shows per week
Speaker 1: schedule with Packers Unscripted beginning next week. So thank you
Speaker 1: for tuning in, everybody, and we will see you next time.