Speaker 1: Wind Down with Janet Kramer and I'm Heart Radio Podcast.
Speaker 2: All Right, this week's Thursday Therapy. We've got doctor taits on.
Speaker 2: She's a clinical psychologist in New York and California. She
Speaker 2: has a new book coming out, Stress Reset, How to
Speaker 2: soothe your body and mind in minutes. Let's get her on.
Speaker 3: Hey girl, Hi, it's nice to meet you.
Speaker 2: Nice to me too, So I hear we have a
Speaker 2: mutual friend.
Speaker 3: I too. I was like, You're so happy that we're
Speaker 3: talking about this. I know. I got a.
Speaker 2: Text this morning and I was like, Oh, why is
Speaker 2: doctor Drunker texting me? And I'm like, by the way,
Speaker 2: people listening, Doctor Unger is my boob surgeon. He's a
Speaker 2: plastic surgeon here in Nashville. But I was like, ah,
Speaker 2: he's probably checking in to see how my postpartum boobs are.
Speaker 2: But and I was like, oh no, he's like he's
Speaker 2: a happy New Year, hope all as well. He's a
Speaker 2: small world. You're having a guest in your podcast, Jenny.
Speaker 2: She's a she's married to my best friend from growing up.
Speaker 2: And I'm like, oh my gosh, that's so cool. What
Speaker 2: a small world.
Speaker 1: Yes, I'm excited to talk to you and it does
Speaker 1: feel like we're already friends.
Speaker 2: I know, I love that. But I was reading your
Speaker 2: bio last night and a few things. I know you
Speaker 2: have a new book out. It's called Stress Reset, How
Speaker 2: to Soothe your Body and Mind in Minutes. But I
Speaker 2: was also when I was reading just again your bio,
Speaker 2: your breakdown. You're also the author of How to Be
Speaker 2: Single and Happy, science based strategies for keeping your sanity
Speaker 2: while looking for a soulmate, and I just was like, wow,
Speaker 2: this is you. Just You've got it all. So I'm
Speaker 2: just I want to dive into your book. But can
Speaker 2: we also talk about that one too, because I think
Speaker 2: a lot of people would want to hear the you know,
Speaker 2: what that book is about, and then the strategies for
Speaker 2: just being happy in a moment when you probably are
Speaker 2: not where you want to be.
Speaker 3: You know, I would love to talk to that book.
Speaker 3: Thank you.
Speaker 2: Perfect. So okay, so let's start with because when I
Speaker 2: read that, I'm like, Okay, how to soothe your body
Speaker 2: and mind in minutes? I was like, all right, just
Speaker 2: how because sometimes and I will say, my body is
Speaker 2: my first indicator when I don't feel safe, and I
Speaker 2: just go to that place of either past trauma or something.
Speaker 2: But for me, it's how do you regulate the body
Speaker 2: when you are being triggered by something that is activating you.
Speaker 1: Janna, this is a big question, and I just want
Speaker 1: people to know from the get go this is all
Speaker 1: things that you can do in minutes. There's no long meditations,
Speaker 1: big medications or martinis required. And I include seventy five
Speaker 1: different tools because different things work for different people. And
Speaker 1: so if we think about it, stress or any emotion
Speaker 1: really has three components. There's really distressing thinking, Then there's
Speaker 1: physical sensations understandably that come with really negative thoughts, whether
Speaker 1: it's muscle tension or scowling or your heart racing. And
Speaker 1: then there's behaviors, so sending an aggressive text or yelling
Speaker 1: or canceling or avoiding. And so by being really mindful
Speaker 1: of each of those three compartments or components and then
Speaker 1: intervening at each angle from mind, body to.
Speaker 3: Behavior, we have a whole buffet of options.
Speaker 1: And so like different genes work well for different people
Speaker 1: and fit better on you have a favorite, there are
Speaker 1: a lot of options, and so specifically for body, let's
Speaker 1: say one of my favorites is it seems so simple,
Speaker 1: but it's really subtle and profound at the same time.
Speaker 1: But a lot of times when we're angry, if we're
Speaker 1: sitting in traffic and like someone is moving five miles
Speaker 1: per hour in front of us.
Speaker 3: Or you're in like a really long line, when you're
Speaker 3: in a huge.
Speaker 1: Rash and guessing that you are tensing your whole face,
Speaker 1: and that is probably like almost tipping into attention headache.
Speaker 1: And if you do something as simple as a half smile,
Speaker 1: which is really a quarter of a smile, which is
Speaker 1: you know, ever so slightly amaizing your lips, that automatically
Speaker 1: like releases tension in your face, and that creates an
Speaker 1: ambience that's more conducive to being more accepting. And so
Speaker 1: just from the outside and relaxing your face will automatically
Speaker 1: like kind of quiet judgmental thoughts and allow you to
Speaker 1: practice more acceptance. So that's just one of very many
Speaker 1: that I personally am trying to do that all the time.
Speaker 3: And again, there's so many options.
Speaker 2: How do you do that though, when you're so angry,
Speaker 2: or you're hurt, or you're broken, or you're because I
Speaker 2: can imagine again, something was really hard that I was
Speaker 2: dealing with, just you know, a few weeks ago, and
Speaker 2: it's like if someone told me just a smile to
Speaker 2: fix out it that there's no there's like my body's
Speaker 2: like shaking, you know what I mean, Like how do
Speaker 2: you change? Like is it? Are we talking? And just
Speaker 2: because I'm like yes, like you said, it sounds it
Speaker 2: sounds simple, but at the same time, it sounds also
Speaker 2: hard when you're in that moment where you're where you're
Speaker 2: so your body is so taken over by stress or anxiety.
Speaker 1: And I'm so happy that you raised that, because this
Speaker 1: is not the thing to do if you're angry for
Speaker 1: a good reason, or the anger is serving you, if
Speaker 1: your anger is serving you, if you're angry at someone
Speaker 1: that disappointed you, your face is the best community cater
Speaker 1: that is providing the other person like very powerful information.
Speaker 1: And so we don't want to do this. I would
Speaker 1: never recommend suppressing or just like smiling through it. This
Speaker 1: is if you you know you're in traffic and fighting
Speaker 1: is just going to give you a migraine, not improve
Speaker 1: the situation. But if someone pissed you off, then I
Speaker 1: would not say like half smile through it. I would
Speaker 1: say there's there's so many other things. I mean it's
Speaker 1: we could totally dive into the details of why what
Speaker 1: this person did, but it might be giving the benefit
Speaker 1: of the doubt.
Speaker 3: It might be asserting yourself.
Speaker 1: And there's like a really practical, user friendly recipe that
Speaker 1: I teach in the book on exactly how to assert
Speaker 1: yourself that you could use, like as a template to
Speaker 1: plug and play different situations into. But yeah, different different
Speaker 1: tools for different times. And if someone really pissed you off,
Speaker 1: I would not say half smile is your tool.
Speaker 2: No, no, and no one, No one pissed me off.
Speaker 2: It was more just you know, I think stress, postpartum hormones,
Speaker 2: all the things. You just I'm a little probably more
Speaker 2: tense than I normally am, you know. And so that's
Speaker 2: where in that moment, I'm like, oh, it'd be tough
Speaker 2: to smile or to do the you know, the lift
Speaker 2: of the lip. But like, is there anything else that
Speaker 2: in your book too, where you talk about, okay, how
Speaker 2: to ease your mind a little bit in those situations
Speaker 2: of stress or.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, when you are postpartum.
Speaker 1: And I'm so grateful that you're doing this in such
Speaker 1: a busy time.
Speaker 3: I think, really taking a minute.
Speaker 1: I love the skill of self validation really normalizing the normal,
Speaker 1: because a lot of times we might feel angry and
Speaker 1: then stack onto that like I should feel happy, I
Speaker 1: should be grateful, or what's wrong with me? And I
Speaker 1: think just normalizing like it is really exhausting and it's
Speaker 1: really understandable to not feel like your best self when
Speaker 1: sleep is compromised. That automatically spikes cortisol levels and affects
Speaker 1: your ability to think clearly and compromises your ability to
Speaker 1: feel great. And so even just the act of knowing
Speaker 1: like it makes sense to feel this way and it's
Speaker 1: okay to feel this way, I don't need to judge that.
Speaker 1: I don't need to also believe the things that I'm
Speaker 1: thinking in this state, because it's a real problem to
Speaker 1: believe everything you think when you're feeling really lousy and
Speaker 1: you're not sleeping enough.
Speaker 2: Do you have tips in the book to how to
Speaker 2: combat the snowball effective stress where it's you? Because for me,
Speaker 2: I know I do this. When one thing stresses me out,
Speaker 2: fifty things will then stress me out. And it's not
Speaker 2: even and I'm normally never stressed about the twenty nine,
Speaker 2: thirtieth or fortieth thing, But when I'm stressed about one
Speaker 2: like I compile everything together. Do you have anything for that?
Speaker 1: Yes, And so that is something that we all do,
Speaker 1: and a lot of us do this in crazy, you know,
Speaker 1: comical ways. You know. I just remember when I was postpartum.
Speaker 1: I was really stressed and overwhelmed going back to work,
Speaker 1: and I was like literally just thinking about all the
Speaker 1: things I had to do and how I had no energy.
Speaker 3: And how I had no time.
Speaker 1: And then I started mindlessly picking at my fingernail and
Speaker 1: little did I know that when you are postpartum your compromised.
Speaker 1: And so I developed a crazy antibiotic resistant infection that
Speaker 1: like required minor surgery and multiple visits with infectious disease.
Speaker 1: And so literally, I think this is everything, Like when
Speaker 1: we are really stressed, we think in ways that make
Speaker 1: things much more stressful, and we act in.
Speaker 3: Ways like it was so ironic.
Speaker 1: I was like, I don't have time, and then here
Speaker 1: I am with like five follow up visits to different
Speaker 1: doctors and sitting in the er for many hours. And
Speaker 1: so I think, even there's so many things, but one
Speaker 1: very specific thing is just labeling I'm in emotion mind,
Speaker 1: I'm not in reasonable mind, which is just the facts.
Speaker 1: I'm not in wise mind, which is where my head
Speaker 1: and heart are aligned.
Speaker 3: But I'm in emotion mind like.
Speaker 1: That automatically gives you a little bit of working distance
Speaker 1: from taking your thoughts. So seriously, if like it's the
Speaker 1: middle of the night and you hear a no ways
Speaker 1: emotion mind, like that does not mean that you're about
Speaker 1: to be you know, broken in your house is about
Speaker 1: to be robbed, Or if you're afraid of flying rather
Speaker 1: than thinking turbulence is a sign that you're in harm's way,
Speaker 1: taking a second to realize, like, no, no emotion mind,
Speaker 1: this is my fear of flying.
Speaker 3: Not a crash is coming.
Speaker 2: I mean, you bring up flying and I'm probably the
Speaker 2: worst flyer there is, just because I don't like turbulence.
Speaker 2: I don't like to know. Okay, I would love to
Speaker 2: sit next to the pilot the entire time, and like
Speaker 2: are we good? Is this good? I think you just help.
Speaker 2: You're at a loss of control too, because it's it's
Speaker 2: in their hands and you don't know what's going on
Speaker 2: or the weather or anything like that. So uh with
Speaker 2: that aspect of things too, Like I tend to overthink
Speaker 2: a lot of things in my brain, like does not
Speaker 2: shut off at times I know you say, you know
Speaker 2: there's you can do this in a minute. So and
Speaker 2: instead of having doing a meditation or quieting the mind,
Speaker 2: is there, what can you do for the overthinking of
Speaker 2: just like stopping your brain from just overacting.
Speaker 1: When you're afraid on planes? Can I ask what specifically
Speaker 1: comes up for you, like what are your thoughts, what
Speaker 1: are the sensations in your body? I know you said
Speaker 1: your urge is to just check in to make sure
Speaker 1: everything's okay.
Speaker 2: I don't like I don't like feeling trapped that comes
Speaker 2: from a PTSD situation from when I was nineteen. I
Speaker 2: do not like the feeling of being trapped. I also
Speaker 2: don't like the fact that if something were to happen, well,
Speaker 2: I think it's gotten worse as a mom. So when
Speaker 2: I had kids, really to start to paint the picture, like,
Speaker 2: oh my god, if something happens and I'm on a
Speaker 2: plane and they're not going to have their mom and
Speaker 2: so I think there's the year, and I know the
Speaker 2: I've gone to theearflying dot Com and I know all
Speaker 2: the statistics and you could tell me that till you
Speaker 2: know you're blue in the face. But I'm still every
Speaker 2: time we hit a bump. I'm like, I start to
Speaker 2: freak out. Are we okay? Look at the flight attendance.
Speaker 2: You know, my body just goes into essentially fight or flight,
Speaker 2: you know where I just am like I'm on high
Speaker 2: alert and I'm not in I'm not in my right brain,
Speaker 2: Like I'm not I'm not rational, I'm like, we're going down.
Speaker 1: I really appreciate you opening up about that, and I
Speaker 1: think a lot of people listening probably relate to your
Speaker 1: your thoughts and feelings. I think the first thing in
Speaker 1: this is something I talk about in the book, is
Speaker 1: having a traumatic event in your past. It creates an
Speaker 1: ongoing vulnerability and kind of fight or flight response. And
Speaker 1: so surprisingly, there are treatments for PTSD that don't take
Speaker 1: very long and aren't too much work. For example, there's
Speaker 1: something called written exposure therapy where you write about the
Speaker 1: trauma for five sessions. Each session is thirty minutes and
Speaker 1: you write about your deepest thoughts and feelings about the
Speaker 1: event and how it affects you today. And remarkably, five
Speaker 1: thirty minute writing sessions work as well as much longer treatments,
Speaker 1: and these have been This has been used with veterans
Speaker 1: and people that have been through very intense, prolonged trauma,
Speaker 1: and so I think the first thing is to really
Speaker 1: understand that PTSD is going to be make a lot
Speaker 1: of day to day things much more stressful, but for
Speaker 1: people to realize that there are really promising research back
Speaker 1: to ways to treat PTSD that will give you more bandwidth.
Speaker 2: Interesting, I've never heard of that one, Like I've done
Speaker 2: the e MDR. I mean, and it's interesting when I
Speaker 2: go to therapy sometimes it'll go back to that. I'm like, God,
Speaker 2: I've worked on that for so many years, you know, like,
Speaker 2: how how do I go back to that place? And
Speaker 2: I've never heard of that that the writing thing that's
Speaker 2: very interesting, Yeah, And kind.
Speaker 1: Of the philosophy behind that is that when a traumatic
Speaker 1: event happens, we store it in a way that's splintered,
Speaker 1: and so we can continue to re experience it, but
Speaker 1: by slowing down and staying with it in the present,
Speaker 1: we can we can kind of close it out and
Speaker 1: create separation from it. And again, this is a really
Speaker 1: remarkable treatment. And this is one of the reasons I
Speaker 1: wrote this book, because so many people can't necessarily afford therapy,
Speaker 1: or so many people might be doing things that aren't
Speaker 1: the most researched back to recent exciting ways to improve things,
Speaker 1: and so certainly I think written exposure therapies are really
Speaker 1: promising avenue. And I think another key part of flying
Speaker 1: is radical acceptance. A lot of times we are fighting,
Speaker 1: you know, there's something difficult, and instead of accepting, we
Speaker 1: are fighting, and so I would you know, my patients laugh,
Speaker 1: but they know that they are not allowed to talk
Speaker 1: to the stewardess or not allowed to talk to the pilot.
Speaker 1: There's no questions about how does how are things looking
Speaker 1: today or just typical. They need to, you know, they
Speaker 1: need to if they never pray, they're not supposed to
Speaker 1: be praying, Like, there needs to be this attitude of
Speaker 1: acceptance and willingness and allowing what is because trying to
Speaker 1: direct things that are out of our control is going
Speaker 1: to be. You're not a pilot, that's not your I
Speaker 1: mean it's kind of playful but true, it's like none
Speaker 1: of your business. Like you just got to You're doing
Speaker 1: this because this matters to you. You want to be courageous.
Speaker 1: You're not, you know, a puppeteer orchestrating, right.
Speaker 2: I like that nuts. I've never had it spun that way,
Speaker 2: But I really, I really like that. I'm curious to
Speaker 2: your thoughts on alcohol when it comes to stress, because
Speaker 2: you know, at the end of the day, people sometimes
Speaker 2: some people like to sit down, have a glass of
Speaker 2: wine or crack open something. What are your views on that,
Speaker 2: because you know, we've had like doctor aman on and
Speaker 2: you know he's talked about the negative effects of alcohol,
Speaker 2: Like do you see that as a negative as well,
Speaker 2: or is it something where you're like, you know, in
Speaker 2: every once in a while or something.
Speaker 1: I don't want to speak in all or nothing terms,
Speaker 1: but generally speaking, alcohol does affect our sleep quality. Even
Speaker 1: two drinks takes a toll on our sleep.
Speaker 3: And so.
Speaker 1: My whole thing is, I don't want people to do
Speaker 1: the equivalent of taking out a high interest credit card
Speaker 1: to cope with stress. If you're going to take something
Speaker 1: to take the edge off that then messes up your sleep,
Speaker 1: that's really not the best.
Speaker 3: Long term solution.
Speaker 1: And so I think if you're going out socially and
Speaker 1: you want to have a drink, that's one thing once
Speaker 1: a week. But I would really, I really hope to
Speaker 1: offer people a whole host of other things to do
Speaker 1: that are much more empowering. And besides alcohol, like I really,
Speaker 1: one of the things that stresses me out a ton
Speaker 1: is the thought that so many people, the fact that
Speaker 1: so many people are taking medications like anti anxiety medications
Speaker 1: like klanic ban or xyannex, that they're really actually painfully ironic.
Speaker 1: It's like, when you need to be your sharpest, you're
Speaker 1: taking a medication that makes you think less clearly and
Speaker 1: slows you down. And they're also incredibly habit for me,
Speaker 1: and the detox is really really stressful. And so I
Speaker 1: want everyone listening to take a moment to really marinate
Speaker 1: on this idea that your body is your best pharmacy.
Speaker 1: You don't need alcohol, you don't need anti anxiety medications.
Speaker 1: We could talk about pot. I don't want everyone to
Speaker 1: hate me, but cannabis is not a cure for anxiety.
Speaker 1: There are much better things within you.
Speaker 2: So what would you say then for anxiety? Because I
Speaker 2: used to be on anxiety medicine for oh my gosh,
Speaker 2: I'm fifteen now, all of them I forty. I started
Speaker 2: when I was almost twenty me, so I mean, yeah,
Speaker 2: most I was almost on it for nineteen years. Recently
Speaker 2: got off last October.
Speaker 3: Congratulations that's a really big deal.
Speaker 2: Thank you. But having said that, I've had the worst
Speaker 2: postpartum anxiety. It's probably been depressions underneath there for sure,
Speaker 2: but the most it's been anxiety. And I've often wondered,
Speaker 2: you know, should I go back on because I know
Speaker 2: all the coping mechanisms of how not to have an
Speaker 2: anxiety attack. I know, you know, all the things that
Speaker 2: I've learned over the amount of years, which is why
Speaker 2: I also I eliminated one of my biggest stressors which
Speaker 2: then which was a marriage, and then after that, you know,
Speaker 2: I didn't have an anxiety. I'm like, okay, like this
Speaker 2: is you know now I also know how to cope
Speaker 2: with it. But now it's I have that anxiety that's
Speaker 2: coming back. And I do have Xenx in my purse.
Speaker 2: I don't take it, but I like to know that
Speaker 2: I have it if I ever have like a moment
Speaker 2: on a plane or something where I can. But I mean,
Speaker 2: I haven't taken a xanax and probably ten years maybe,
Speaker 2: but I always have it in my purse. It's like
Speaker 2: almost a security blanket for me to know that I
Speaker 2: have it in case, which I think is not a
Speaker 2: healthy habit. But I still refill it to know that
Speaker 2: it's there when the expiration date goes. But you know
Speaker 2: what are then because I do do not believe it,
Speaker 2: not not to believe. But when you look at like
Speaker 2: the serotonin levels and all the things, they say, Well,
Speaker 2: if the serotonin levels are off, like what then can
Speaker 2: you do to not be So if I'm having anxiety,
Speaker 2: then what would you basically say to me to do
Speaker 2: to not go back on anxiety medicine?
Speaker 3: Well, the reason that you keep the issiatics in your
Speaker 3: purse is because you're afraid of what what are you like?
Speaker 3: What would be a situation where you would need to take.
Speaker 2: That I pass out or like I'm on the verge
Speaker 2: and uh it's like a panic attack. Yeah, Like, let's
Speaker 2: say I'm stuck, which is another reason why you know
Speaker 2: I don't. I would never go on. I used to
Speaker 2: never drive in the expressway because I again I would
Speaker 2: the feeling of being stuck would get me dizzy to
Speaker 2: the fact that I have to pull off on the
Speaker 2: expressway right, So I just am like I avoided it.
Speaker 2: I lived in LA for however many years, ten years,
Speaker 2: never one on the four or five or the one
Speaker 2: on one. I was like side streets all the way.
Speaker 2: So then I worked my way up, did amdr for
Speaker 2: it and all the things, and I stopped. I was
Speaker 2: able to drive on the expressway, so I'm able to
Speaker 2: do it now, but I have to stay on like
Speaker 2: the right lane so I know I can get off,
Speaker 2: and I'll never do it during rush hour because then
Speaker 2: that feeling of like being stuck again will just get me.
Speaker 2: I mean it's almost like a vertigo feeling where I
Speaker 2: could just get super dizzy and I feel lightheaded. And
Speaker 2: so for me in that moment, I'm like, Okay, I
Speaker 2: would obviously don't drive in dousantics. That's not what I'm saying,
Speaker 2: but at least I know. I'm like, well, if I
Speaker 2: have a panic attack, I can take this and I
Speaker 2: know I'll be fine.
Speaker 1: I'm so excited to talk to you about this, and
Speaker 1: nothing makes me happier than to talk about this, and
Speaker 1: I really appreciate you.
Speaker 3: Being so open.
Speaker 1: And so for anyone listening, the cure for panic is
Speaker 1: practicing panic. Everyone needs to remember this. The cure for
Speaker 1: panic is practicing panic.
Speaker 2: Explain because I what do you mean? Yeah?
Speaker 3: Yes, So when someone comes into my office and tells
Speaker 3: me that they have panic. And this is all in
Speaker 3: the book.
Speaker 1: And this is one of the reasons I wrote this
Speaker 1: book is because people need to know this. If you
Speaker 1: have had a panic attack, you are probably avoiding anything
Speaker 1: that would recreate those symptoms. But what happens if you
Speaker 1: know that when you're in a stressful situation you are
Speaker 1: going to feel short of breath, sweaty, and dizzy. What
Speaker 1: happens if we make a list of those specific physical
Speaker 1: sensations and we practice them together for a minute each
Speaker 1: who gets spin on a chair to feel dizzy? I
Speaker 1: can I have coffeeaster straws that have a really small opening.
Speaker 1: You pinch your nose. You just breathe in through the
Speaker 1: coffee ster or straw. You feel like you can't breathe.
Speaker 1: You can wear a winter coat. We could give you
Speaker 1: some espresso. You practicing you literally putting out a welcome
Speaker 1: that for physical sensations of anxiety puts you in the
Speaker 1: driver's seat and panic in the trunk. And after you've
Speaker 1: practiced this, you need to practice like each sensation for
Speaker 1: about a minute. You could go the extra mile and
Speaker 1: like imagine that you're driving on the freeway and feeling
Speaker 1: these things. But once you repeatedly practice welcoming panic. Again,
Speaker 1: this is very similar to radical acceptance. And this is
Speaker 1: radical acceptance when you allow your body to do what
Speaker 1: it does and come to realize that what feels terrifying
Speaker 1: is in fact temporary, you win and anxiety loses. It's
Speaker 1: almost like a Chinese finger trap. The more you fight it,
Speaker 1: the more you're held hostage. But the more you lean
Speaker 1: in and we're like, bring it on, bring it on.
Speaker 1: I've been there, I've done that. This is exactly what
Speaker 1: I did at home last night.
Speaker 3: It's cool.
Speaker 1: There's enough space and me to welcome in all of it.
Speaker 1: And then so step one is practicing that, and then
Speaker 1: step two. Then what you're saying is very familiar to me.
Speaker 1: And this is what everyone says. We need to avoid
Speaker 1: safety behaviors, which is staying in, you know, avoiding rush
Speaker 1: hour traffic or avoiding certain lanes. And it's funny, you know,
Speaker 1: when I was pregnant with my oldest child, I had
Speaker 1: been living in New York for a very long time,
Speaker 1: and I flew out to la for a psychology training
Speaker 1: that was insolving, which is like a ninety minute drive
Speaker 1: from lax and I was on my way to this
Speaker 1: super important, exciting, amazing career opportunity. And I started to
Speaker 1: feel my hands get super sweaty on the steering wheel,
Speaker 1: and then.
Speaker 3: I was like, oh my gosh, I'm like feel nauseous.
Speaker 1: This isn't safe. I haven't driven on a freeway in years.
Speaker 1: This is really the worst idea to drive, like, you know,
Speaker 1: far my first time. And I was like, thank you mind,
Speaker 1: thank you mind, Like there's enough space in me to
Speaker 1: welcome in all of my feelings. If I had pulled
Speaker 1: over and left, what a missed opportunity to realize that,
Speaker 1: like it just comes and goes, it's waves, and that
Speaker 1: would have made me more anxious the next time. Then
Speaker 1: I would have developed some sort of narrative of I
Speaker 1: can't do freeways. But it's like, no, we all feel
Speaker 1: these feelings. It's just a matter of am I willing
Speaker 1: to have them? And who's in charge here? My inner
Speaker 1: wisdom or fleeting sensations? Right?
Speaker 2: No, I love that. Think when I'm hearing you say that,
Speaker 2: I think it's because I had passed out twice from
Speaker 2: having a panic attack. So my fear is if I
Speaker 2: what if I pass out while I'm driving? You know,
Speaker 2: I gets and that's where it's like my because my
Speaker 2: body will go from like zero to one hundred and
Speaker 2: a second when it comes to that feeling of trap.
Speaker 3: And what situation did you pass out in if Acannos?
Speaker 2: So it one was when I was in Mexico. I
Speaker 2: was completely sober, but so the I was an abusive relationship.
Speaker 2: He would wake me up at three in the morning,
Speaker 2: be the shot out of me, throw me at about.
Speaker 2: So when I was alone, I mean I would wake
Speaker 2: up at three am every every single morning after that incident,
Speaker 2: I mean up until I got divorced a few years ago,
Speaker 2: and so now I don't wake up at three am anymore.
Speaker 2: But so I was alone, I was on tour, I
Speaker 2: was playing the country show, and it was that panic
Speaker 2: that I'm alone and I don't feel safe, and so
Speaker 2: I got up out of bed. I started having anxiety
Speaker 2: attack and then I fell and I hit my head
Speaker 2: and I still have scar tissue on my forehead from
Speaker 2: falling and hitting my head. And then another time was
Speaker 2: after my divorce, but that was just I mean, it
Speaker 2: was the week I filed, So, I mean I get
Speaker 2: the most, probably had zero food in me and everything else.
Speaker 1: But yeah, there's certain things people can do to prevent fainting,
Speaker 1: which are counterintuitive, like pensing your muscles want people are
Speaker 1: like trying to relax, But it's called applied tension. Especially
Speaker 1: if people have blood injury injection phobias, if when they
Speaker 1: get their blood drawn they feel really faint, tensing your
Speaker 1: muscles really helps them. So there's certain things to do,
Speaker 1: and obviously I want people to be thoughtful, but I
Speaker 1: think it's interesting that this happened twice in very extreme
Speaker 1: situations and to create rules around pretty low probability events.
Speaker 1: It maintains their weight and makes you more afraid of them.
Speaker 1: But there are all sorts of things in the book.
Speaker 1: I mean, another one that's kind of interesting is taking
Speaker 1: a salable and filling it with ice water. If you
Speaker 1: hold your breath for thirty seconds, is you dip your
Speaker 1: face in the ice water, that lowers your heart rate
Speaker 1: that quickly kind of overhauls your nervous systems called the
Speaker 1: die of response. And even just holding ice can help.
Speaker 1: And anchoring or grounding, really digging your heels into the floor,
Speaker 1: taking a moment to kind of check in with yourself,
Speaker 1: what am I thinking doing? Come back to the moment.
Speaker 1: And so there are tons and tons of things, and
Speaker 1: you're not alone. And I've seen a lot of people
Speaker 1: that have fainted, and it's like, let's get in the
Speaker 1: car together.
Speaker 3: We got this and right.
Speaker 1: If you know that you can face the physical sensations,
Speaker 1: it's pretty unlikely to faint. The thing where I see
Speaker 1: fainting the most often is around the blood injury injection
Speaker 1: for you, because that can make people faint. But again,
Speaker 1: this apply tension. It works, wonders.
Speaker 2: I love that. What are your what it's like your
Speaker 2: favorite tip in the book the book that you write about.
Speaker 1: There are so many, but I know one that I
Speaker 1: love is that I personal.
Speaker 3: There's two that I'll share.
Speaker 1: I really love slow breathing, breathing in for five seconds and.
Speaker 3: Out for five seconds.
Speaker 1: And I just want to clarify, like, it is not
Speaker 1: fair to think I'm just going to pick this up
Speaker 1: when things are really hard.
Speaker 3: You need to do this like preemptively.
Speaker 1: It's like you can't just decide like I'm going to
Speaker 1: run the marathon without having trained.
Speaker 3: You need to do this like first thing in the morning.
Speaker 1: And so I really love doing this and I think
Speaker 1: it works, Wonders, and I think it is much more powerful.
Speaker 1: It gives you a calm alertness, which is different than
Speaker 1: into anxiety medication that's like dull and not able to
Speaker 1: be strong and sharp. And I actually, in doing research
Speaker 1: for the book, I interviewed psychiatrists that have moved away
Speaker 1: from prescribing medication and are now prescribing breathing. And they
Speaker 1: actually started a foundation called Breath, Body, and Mind Foundation
Speaker 1: where they work with disaster found disaster survivors teaching them
Speaker 1: breath work and even in disaster zones, this specific I
Speaker 1: don't know, breathing, which is much slower than the way
Speaker 1: that we normally breathe, is incredibly helpful and powerful and kind.
Speaker 3: Of sets a good tone for the day. And you
Speaker 3: do this through your nose, so breathing in interesting and
Speaker 3: out and so it's one.
Speaker 1: And then I also love a specific mindfulness practice called
Speaker 1: loving Kindness meditation. And this was like my best friend
Speaker 1: postpart of something it's just excited to share with you.
Speaker 1: And I continue to practice this all the time, but
Speaker 1: really practicing saying statements of loving kindness first to someone
Speaker 1: that naturally brings up those feelings, then to yourself, then
Speaker 1: to maybe a friend that's having a hard time than
Speaker 1: a familiar stranger.
Speaker 3: Like the you're.
Speaker 1: Amazon driver or someone see at a local coffee shop
Speaker 1: and someone a little bit difficulty, I'd be happy, may
Speaker 1: I'd be healthy, I'd be safe, and I live with
Speaker 1: these and that really creates kind of the groundwork for
Speaker 1: being a bit nicer to yourself. And doing this again,
Speaker 1: like ahead of time as a buffer, makes you a
Speaker 1: little bit more able to when you're beating yourself up
Speaker 1: or judging something that you did that wasn't perfect, it's
Speaker 1: a little easier.
Speaker 3: To change the channel and get back into more compassion.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, Well, everybody gets stressed. Reset how to soothe
Speaker 2: your body and mind in minutes. I'm definitely going to
Speaker 2: do that, and I'm going to read it on the airplane.
Speaker 2: And then you have I just want to say the
Speaker 2: other book too that you have that's out, what is yours?
Speaker 2: CSIA How to Be Single and Happy? The biggest takeaway
Speaker 2: for people listening How to Be Single and Happy? You
Speaker 2: think the biggest takeaway from that book is.
Speaker 1: So much to say, But a lot of people think,
Speaker 1: when I meet someone, then my life is going to
Speaker 1: be amazing. And there's a lot of research. This is
Speaker 1: not like random thoughts by Jenny Tates. This is like
Speaker 1: research studies looking at hundreds of thousands of people, on average,
Speaker 1: marriage increases happiness by one percent. And so I really
Speaker 1: want people to know that they don't need to wait
Speaker 1: for their life to start.
Speaker 3: Your life starts now.
Speaker 1: And some people worry that if they're too comfortable or
Speaker 1: too happy, then they won't look for love, but actually,
Speaker 1: like that's a very evolutionary desire. You will still want
Speaker 1: a partner if you're very happy. And so I want
Speaker 1: people to know that they can do the things that
Speaker 1: matter to them and live a life that feels really
Speaker 1: rich and meaningful even if they are not having a
Speaker 1: lot of luck and love. And so many dating books
Speaker 1: make people feel really lousy and teach people to play
Speaker 1: games and be bitchy and settle, and I want people
Speaker 1: to know that there's a science to happiness, and there's
Speaker 1: a science to asserting yourself and communicating, and you don't
Speaker 1: need to play games and you don't need to lose yourself.
Speaker 3: You need to embrace yourself.
Speaker 2: And I really love that. That's awesome. Well, Jenny, thank
Speaker 2: you so much for coming on. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 2: I'm adding to Kart right now.
Speaker 3: Thank you. Thank you, Jen.
Speaker 1: I really appreciate it talking to you, and I'm so
Speaker 1: happy that you know friends.
Speaker 2: I know. Thank you girl the same. We'll speak to
Speaker 2: you soon. I'm going to slide into your DMS when
Speaker 2: I'm on my next plane ride and go all right, girl,
Speaker 2: And this.
Speaker 3: Is Jennet, you got it on?
Speaker 2: Are the tips again?
Speaker 1: I mean, this is half the book, like do not
Speaker 1: do this on the plane. You've got to practice looking
Speaker 1: ahead of that. You've got to do some pre exposure therapy,
Speaker 1: and then we've got to work on radical acceptance and
Speaker 1: lower stress situations to do the hardest ones.
Speaker 2: Okay, all right, I trust all right, Thanks Jenny, Bye
Speaker 2: bye girl bye