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Speaker 1: School of Humans. Helen Got Murder Line actively investigates cold

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Speaker 1: case murders in an effort to raise public awareness invite

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Speaker 1: witnesses to come forward and present evidence that could potentially

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Speaker 1: be further investigated by law enforcement. While we value insights

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Speaker 1: from family and community members, their statements should not be

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Speaker 1: considered evidence and point to the challenges of verifying facts

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Speaker 1: inherent in cold cases. We remind listeners that everyone has

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Speaker 1: presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.

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Speaker 1: Nothing in the podcast is intended to state or imply

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Speaker 1: that anyone who has not been convicted of a crime

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Speaker 1: is guilty of any wrongdoing. Thanks for listening.

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Speaker 2: Just after midnight on July sixth, and nineteen ninety seven,

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Speaker 2: twenty one year old Marty Lebuff, twenty six year old

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Speaker 2: Stacy Reeves, and fourteen year old Nicole Guidry were fatally

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Speaker 2: shot in a triple homicide at Kk's Corner convenience store

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Speaker 2: near Late Charles, Louisiana. The killing shocked the community for months,

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Speaker 2: police struggled to find answers. No one seemed to have

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Speaker 2: seen anything, and there was no real physical evidence, But

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Speaker 2: it turned out there was a lone witness, a woman

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Speaker 2: named Virginia Johnson, who had been at the gas station

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Speaker 2: at around eleven forty five pm on July fifth, just

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Speaker 2: before closing. Stacy was closing up the store when Virginia

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Speaker 2: got there. She left Virginia inside so that Virginia could

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Speaker 2: buy ten dollars worth of gas. Virginia later testified that

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Speaker 2: she handed the money to Marty lebuff. At this point,

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Speaker 2: Stacey was mopping the floors and Virginia saw Nicole sitting

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Speaker 2: on one of the counters. That was when a black

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Speaker 2: car with two men inside it drove up. When one

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Speaker 2: of the men walked in, Virginia bumped into him. She

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Speaker 2: later worked with an artist to create the composite sketch.

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Speaker 2: All that she remembered at first about the other man,

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Speaker 2: the one who walked into the gas station while she

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Speaker 2: was paying, whom Virginia didn't really see, was that he

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Speaker 2: had a Warborough keychain hanging from a front pocket. But

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Speaker 2: under hypnosis she was able to remember more details about

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Speaker 2: that other man, and then, almost seven months after the killings,

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Speaker 2: an episode of America's Most Wanted air with details of

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Speaker 2: the two men Virginia Johnson saw minutes before the murders,

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Speaker 2: and by then the keychain was portrayed as a rabbit's

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Speaker 2: foot keychain in the reenactment. This led to someone calling

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Speaker 2: in a tip about a male friend of Stacy Reeves,

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Speaker 2: twenty nine year old Tomas Cisco, who lived in New Orleans,

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Speaker 2: but who would apparently come to the Lake Charles area

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Speaker 2: around two weeks before the triple homicide. Police questioned Thomas Cisco.

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Speaker 2: He confessed he had been at kk's corner on the

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Speaker 2: night of the murders. He said that he was involved,

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Speaker 2: but as we explained last week, Thomas told a lot

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Speaker 2: of conflicting stories and a lot of the details that

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Speaker 2: he gave to detectives trying to confirm his stories didn't

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Speaker 2: make sense. Was it Thomas or someone else at Kk's

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Speaker 2: corner that night? And if he was there, who was

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Speaker 2: the second man? Could the killer or killers still be

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Speaker 2: out there? I'm Catherine Townsend. Over the past five years

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Speaker 2: of making my true crime podcast, Helen Gone, I've learned

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Speaker 2: that there is no such thing as a small town

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Speaker 2: where murder never happens. I have received hundreds of messages

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Speaker 2: from people all around the country asking for help with

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Speaker 2: an unsolved murder that's affected them, their families, and their communities.

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Speaker 2: If you have a case you'd like me and my

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Speaker 2: team to look into, you can reach out to us

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Speaker 2: at our Helen Gone Murder Line at six seven eight

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Speaker 2: seven four four six one four five at six seven

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Speaker 2: eight seven four four, six, one four or five, or

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Speaker 2: you can send us a message on Instagram at Helen Gonepod.

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Speaker 2: This is Helen Gone Murder Line. One year after the

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Speaker 2: brutal murders at kk's corner, Thomas Cisco had been arrested

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Speaker 2: and was starting to talk. The man who'd confessed to

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Speaker 2: the killings was behind bars, and yet there were a

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Speaker 2: lot of people in the community who believed that Thomas

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Speaker 2: Cisco was not the killer, and many including the Calcashue

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Speaker 2: Parish District Attorney Rick Bryant, who believed that even if

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Speaker 2: Thomas was part of the carn kk's that night, that

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Speaker 2: he did not act alone. Deputy Donald Lucky Deluge at

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Speaker 2: the time, was the director of the Violent Crimes Task Force,

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Speaker 2: which he ran with help from the FBI and other

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Speaker 2: law enforcement organizations. Deputy Deluge was heading up the investigation

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Speaker 2: and was the one who directed or heard all of

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Speaker 2: Thomas Cisco's confessions. As we said last week, there were

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Speaker 2: a lot of them. On August twenty seventh, nineteen ninety eight,

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Speaker 2: Thomas Cisco said that he and a man named Robert

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Speaker 2: big Penn were planning to rob kk's corner. Big Penn's

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Speaker 2: wife and sister had driven Nicole Guidry to work the

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Speaker 2: night she, Marty, and Stacy were murdered. Thomas said Robert

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Speaker 2: told him that they were going to rob kk's corner,

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Speaker 2: but Robert had other plans.

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Speaker 3: He told me, this was a plan for us today.

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Speaker 3: We would go there. She would go through the front.

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Speaker 3: I would meet you at the back where he could

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Speaker 3: let me. He would cut the wires to the phone

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Speaker 3: into the launeless so that nobody could call the cops.

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Speaker 3: And he said that he would kill everybody there if

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Speaker 3: he had.

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Speaker 2: As Thomas went through this story, he said that Robert

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Speaker 2: bumped into the witness on purpose because Robert was being

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Speaker 2: a smart ass, and that Robert had said something about

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Speaker 2: her being a bitch immediately. There were problems with this story.

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Speaker 2: First of all, Thomas described the witness as short, medium built,

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Speaker 2: and white, but Virginia is black. And he mentioned going

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Speaker 2: through a back door, but kk's corner does not have

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Speaker 2: a back door. They do, however, have a side door.

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Speaker 2: Thomas said that they were robbing this door and that

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Speaker 2: Robert led the victims into the back cooler one by one,

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Speaker 2: Marty first, then Nicole, then Stacy, and shot them each

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Speaker 2: multiple times with a nine millimeter gun. He said that

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Speaker 2: he was left outside the cooler with Stacy, who was

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Speaker 2: begging for her life while he held her a gunpoint

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Speaker 2: with a thirty eight caliber gun. He said that he

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Speaker 2: was distraught because Thomas described Stacy as his best friend,

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Speaker 2: but he said that he let Robert lead her into

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Speaker 2: the cooler anyway.

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Speaker 3: Stacy's telling me, please let me go. What I tell

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Speaker 3: her is if I let you go, he's gonna shoot

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Speaker 3: both of us. Can't her? Straighten me? I I mean,

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Speaker 3: I want to bust out in tears, dude, because I'm

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Speaker 3: the one sitting there hold my best friend, the GOP

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Speaker 3: that I've known for years. I know what's going to

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Speaker 3: happen to her. Hell, it just happened to the other two.

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Speaker 3: I know what he's going to do. He ain't gonna

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Speaker 3: let none of them well, and she's telling me please

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Speaker 3: let me go. I told her I can't because if

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Speaker 3: I do, he's gonna kill both of them. He says,

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Speaker 3: come on, you're next, Stacey, and she's walk back there

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Speaker 3: with you, and that's when I heard this up four shots.

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Speaker 2: According to police, there was not really any physical evidence

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Speaker 2: to test against Thomas's story. The crime lab determined based

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Speaker 2: on bullet fragments that a nine millimeters semi automatic pistol

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Speaker 2: had been used, but they never found the murder weapon

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Speaker 2: and there were no usable fingerprints. Some of the details

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Speaker 2: of Thomas Cisco's story appeared to match the evidence, like

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Speaker 2: the order that the victims were killed in. According to

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Speaker 2: The Southwest Daily News, the Calcashue Parish coroner Terry Welk,

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Speaker 2: testified that it was his belief that Marty Lebuff was

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Speaker 2: shot first because of his position near the back of

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Speaker 2: the cooler. Nicole Guidry was next. The killer probably forced

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Speaker 2: Nicole to sit on her knees. Her position was consistent

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Speaker 2: with sitting on her knees, back on her heels with

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Speaker 2: her head bowed. She was also shot once in the leg.

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Speaker 2: Stacy was last. She was shot once in the face

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Speaker 2: and once in the back of the head. The coroner

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Speaker 2: said the gunshot powder in Stacy's eyes made him believe

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Speaker 2: that she had her eyes open and was facing her killer,

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Speaker 2: and that the first shot forced her head around. After

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Speaker 2: confessing to Deputy Delution and saying that Robert Digpen was

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Speaker 2: the shooter and that he was the accomplice, Thomas wrote

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Speaker 2: a letter on legal paper that he said was to Stacy,

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Speaker 2: who had been his good friend. Thomas cried as he

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Speaker 2: read the letter to Deputy Delus.

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Speaker 3: I notice, while we were round the room, you were

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Speaker 3: writing something. If you might have read Richard wrote a

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Speaker 3: blood but said Stacy, I want you to know. Weren't

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Speaker 3: you read this? Is it probably easier for you to

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Speaker 3: read your writing to make Stacy. I want you to

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Speaker 3: know that I'm really sorry for what happened.

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Speaker 4: If I knew you were you were glorad to be

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Speaker 4: there that hey, I would have never let it out.

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Speaker 3: Please don't understand. If I could take your place in

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Speaker 3: the other's place, I would. If it was up to

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Speaker 3: me that night.

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Speaker 4: I would have I would have done that totally different.

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Speaker 3: I would have just took all the morning and took

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Speaker 3: my chances of getting caught.

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Speaker 4: I know that you could never forgive me, but I

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Speaker 4: really sawry from the bottom of my heart, no matter

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Speaker 4: what happened, I still love.

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Speaker 3: You, Sis. If you can find me in your please

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Speaker 3: forgive me if you can.

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Speaker 4: I'm paying for what I did, and he will pay

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Speaker 4: for what he did because I'm willing to do everything

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Speaker 4: in my power to see that he is called.

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Speaker 3: I promise I cry a lot since.

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Speaker 4: Your believe Yeah, I do again. I'm really sorry about everything.

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Speaker 4: By this, I love you very much to me.

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Speaker 2: Just days later, Thomas Cisco said that he had lied

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Speaker 2: and that Robert Thigpen was not the shooter. According to

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Speaker 2: Deputy to Loosh, Thomas said he made that story up

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Speaker 2: because he didn't like Robert this time. Thomas said he

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Speaker 2: wasn't even at kk's corner that night. He said the

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Speaker 2: only reason that he confessed at all was because the

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Speaker 2: FBI was harassing him. He said that he had lost

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Speaker 2: his job and his place to live, and he just

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Speaker 2: wanted everything to be over.

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Speaker 3: The only reason I know the way out from the

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Speaker 3: stores because I have been there before.

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Speaker 2: Now this may sound illogical, but the director of an

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Speaker 2: alcohol and drug treatment center where Thomas Cisco spent some

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Speaker 2: time testified that Thomas had personality disorders and arrested development

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Speaker 2: due to substance abuse. From the age of six. Thomas

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Speaker 2: told a psychiatrist he started drinking at age eight and

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Speaker 2: was using drugs daily by age fifteen. Months later, in

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Speaker 2: January of nineteen ninety nine, Thomas Cisco had another story.

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Speaker 2: This time he said he was there with two guys

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Speaker 2: who he identified as Bobby and Malcolm. Later he would

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Speaker 2: say that a fourth man named Chris was there too.

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Speaker 2: There were other stories as well between nineteen and thirty five.

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Speaker 2: Depending on which version of the news report you watch

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Speaker 2: or read, sometimes Thomas said he was the shooter, sometimes

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Speaker 2: a bystander. Thomas has said at very eous times that

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Speaker 2: a Spanish guy and a black guy from New Orleans

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Speaker 2: did it. But in all of these various versions of

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Speaker 2: the story, there were still a lot of details that

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Speaker 2: didn't match, like the fact that at one point he

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Speaker 2: said that he tied the victim's hands, but investigators said

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Speaker 2: the victim's hands were not tied. Or he said that

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Speaker 2: Marty was looking at him when forensic evidence showed Marty

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Speaker 2: was shot in the back of the head, but police

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Speaker 2: believed that Thomas Cisco was involved somehow. Thomas Cisco was

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Speaker 2: charged with the murders of Marty, Stacy, and Nicole. He

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Speaker 2: was being held before trial, but he was still talking.

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Speaker 2: It came out during the trial that he talked to

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Speaker 2: the coroner, to warden's at the jail, and a fellow prisoners,

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Speaker 2: and one of the stories that he told, one that

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Speaker 2: was played on audio tapes at his trial, was that

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Speaker 2: the killings were a hit and that Stacy was the target,

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Speaker 2: and that Richard mcelvin, the son of Sheriff Wayne mccelvin,

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Speaker 2: had hired him to kill Stacy because she quote knew

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Speaker 2: too much about the death of Kevin Abel, her friend

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Speaker 2: who she had started dating. Kevin Abel died at his

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Speaker 2: home in May of nineteen ninety seven, just a few

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Speaker 2: weeks before the Kk's Corner killings. Kevin's death was ruled

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Speaker 2: a suicide, but Stacy didn't believe this. She believed that

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Speaker 2: Kevin was murdered. We said last week that Richard mcelvin

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Speaker 2: voluntarily went in for questioning, he gave blood samples, he

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Speaker 2: had an alibi, and he was cleared by law enforcement.

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Speaker 2: We talked to Stacy's daughter, Tiffany. Tiffany was only twenty

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Speaker 2: three months old when her mother was killed, and she

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Speaker 2: told us that she, her family and a lot of

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Speaker 2: people in Kalkashi Parish do not think that Tomas Cisco

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Speaker 2: acted alone.

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Speaker 5: Well, I think the reason for that is because most

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Speaker 5: people honestly believed he was not the trigger man, and

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Speaker 5: he was the doorman, and he didn't do this alone.

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Speaker 5: We know there's no way he could have done this alone. So,

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Speaker 5: you know, we silly's done and they're now were ready

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Speaker 5: to see somebody else pay for what.

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Speaker 6: They've done again.

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Speaker 2: Richard mcelvin was cleared by police who say they checked

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Speaker 2: his alibi for that night, and Tomas Cisco has been

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Speaker 2: discredited after admittedly lying several times. So why does Stacy's

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Speaker 2: family believe that she was the target. Stacy had told

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Speaker 2: people the week before she was murdered that someone had

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Speaker 2: come into the store and threatened her to stop her

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Speaker 2: from talking about Kevin Abel's death and about drug deals

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Speaker 2: that were allegedly happening inside kk's corner. Stacy's family say

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Speaker 2: they were stopped from going inside the press conference.

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Speaker 5: So the press conference with Wayne mclvin where Wayne mcgilvin

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Speaker 5: addressed the public, where our family was.

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Speaker 6: Not let in.

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Speaker 5: We were stopped at the door. I think you know,

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Speaker 5: the word around the town that it was his son.

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Speaker 5: You know, that was the composite sketch of and the

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Speaker 5: one that was a Sugarman with his son Steven. He

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Speaker 5: just didn't like that, and so he told my grandfather,

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Speaker 5: I hate y'all more than I feel sorry for y'all.

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Speaker 2: So what do we know about Stacy's relationship with Kevin Abel.

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Speaker 2: Her family say that they were dating and that Kevin

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Speaker 2: had been into drugs though he was trying to get clean.

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Speaker 2: Kevin had a young daughter who was about two years

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Speaker 2: old at the time of his death. Stacy's twin daughters

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Speaker 2: were twenty three months old when she was murdered. Robert T.

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Speaker 2: Bob Rogers, Stacy's uncle, said that Stacy was a caring

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Speaker 2: and loving person, but that she began hanging around with

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Speaker 2: what he called the wrong crowd.

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Speaker 5: She was a good kid, just trying to raise her daughter.

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Speaker 4: She was running around with the wrong crowd.

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Speaker 6: She was trying to save people she thought she could save.

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Speaker 6: She thought she could save Kevin Abel from drugs. She couldn't.

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Speaker 6: She got involved in it too deep.

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Speaker 2: Kevin Abel died at home on Saturday, May seventeenth, to

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Speaker 2: nineteen ninety seven. The coroner arrived on scene at nine

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Speaker 2: thirty five pm and ruled the death of suicide. Eight

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Speaker 2: minutes later, at nine forty three PM. I've gotten calls

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Speaker 2: from sources who lived in the trailer part Fairview Estates

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Speaker 2: where Kevin lived. This trailer part, by the way, is

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Speaker 2: about a quarter mile from kk's corner. They say that

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Speaker 2: Kevin was involved in drugs and that he would loan

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Speaker 2: his truck out to drug dealers for several days at

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Speaker 2: a time to use his collateral when he couldn't pay

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Speaker 2: his debts. Kevin left behind a two year old daughter

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Speaker 2: and a family who loved him. We found out that

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Speaker 2: Stacy showed up at his house while the police were

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Speaker 2: still there right after the fatal shooting, shortly after nine

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Speaker 2: thirty PM. According to the incident report, Stacy told police

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Speaker 2: she and Kevin had a date that night and that

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Speaker 2: she had been planning to pick him up. Her family

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Speaker 2: say that Stacy believed, even if Kevin had been planning

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Speaker 2: on taking his own life, that he would not have

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00:17:37,201 --> 00:17:39,001
Speaker 2: done it when she was on her way to visit

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Speaker 2: him with her young twin daughters. Kevin lived in the

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Speaker 2: fair View trailer Park, just a quarter of a mile

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Speaker 2: from kk's corner. He was addicted to crack and according

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Speaker 2: to multiple sources, he owed money to drug dealers, and

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00:17:52,721 --> 00:17:54,960
Speaker 2: they believe that some of those drug dealers might have

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Speaker 2: links to law enforcement. Could Stacy have been right and

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00:17:59,401 --> 00:18:03,521
Speaker 2: was she threatened before the triple homicide at Kk's or

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Speaker 2: even if she was wrong, even if Kevin's death was

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Speaker 2: a suicide, if she was making claims that he was

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Speaker 2: murdered and the wrong people heard that, could that have

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Speaker 2: made Stacy a target? From what the coroner said, Marty

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Speaker 2: Lebeuff was the first victim that night at Kk's corner.

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Speaker 2: His sister, Laura Duhan said she will never forget the

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00:18:32,840 --> 00:18:35,081
Speaker 2: day that she got the call about her brother being

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Speaker 2: brutally murdered.

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Speaker 6: I was actually a nurse practitioner at the hospital here.

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Speaker 6: I work with newborns, and I had gone to work

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Speaker 6: that morning and one of the nurses that I worked

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Speaker 6: with said that she lived out there by the store,

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Speaker 6: and she said there's crime scene tape all up around

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Speaker 6: the store and so mean. My first thought was, you know,

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Speaker 6: maybe the store was robbed. It never occurred to me

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Speaker 6: that anything is violent had happened. Anyway, I went into

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Speaker 6: the dressing room to change into scrubs, and somebody came

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Speaker 6: and got me and they said, Laura, your mom's on

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Speaker 6: the phone. She was telling me, Laura, they killed my Marty.

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Speaker 6: They killed my Marty. And I was just like, no, Mom,

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Speaker 6: I'll be right there. So I ended up leaving and

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Speaker 6: going to her house and they had an ambulance at

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Speaker 6: the house. She was just completely purple in the face.

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Speaker 6: They had her on oxygen and she had to go

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Speaker 6: to the EVAR and she was just screaming and screaming.

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Speaker 6: I remember a detective coming to talk to my dad.

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Speaker 6: My dad had been a detective sheriff's apartment years before that.

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Speaker 6: They just felt like they could talk to him like

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Speaker 6: he was one of them and not like he was

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Speaker 6: the parent. And I remember sitting beside my dad as

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Speaker 6: a detective described to him how they found Marty and

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Speaker 6: how he had blood in his lungs and that they

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Speaker 6: felt like he had laid their gasping, and I remember

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Speaker 6: thinking that there's no reason for him to tell Dad

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Speaker 6: that that that was cruel. I remember people calling the

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Speaker 6: house and asking to speak to Marty, but you kind

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Speaker 6: of knew that they already knew he was gone. They

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Speaker 6: were just calling to see if it was true. I

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Speaker 6: guess I don't know.

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Speaker 2: After police arrested Tomas Cisco and put him into an

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Speaker 2: isolation cell. According to court documents, he was assigned an

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Speaker 2: attorney by the court, Evelyn Ubray, but right away there

337
00:20:29,801 --> 00:20:33,441
Speaker 2: were questions about a conflict of interest because Evelyn was

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Speaker 2: also representing Deputy de Lush and what was referred to

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00:20:36,601 --> 00:20:40,721
Speaker 2: as unspecified family court matters, which the court documents called

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Speaker 2: a clear and undeniable conflict of interest. Missus zu Bray

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00:20:45,361 --> 00:20:48,721
Speaker 2: said she first spoke to Tomasisco on September fourteenth, nineteen

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Speaker 2: ninety eight. Two days later, she apparently realized there could

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00:20:52,241 --> 00:20:55,360
Speaker 2: be a potential conflict of interests. She sent Thomas a

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Speaker 2: letter saying she believed she didn't have a conflict of interest,

345
00:20:58,761 --> 00:21:01,201
Speaker 2: but she left it up to Thomas to decide whether

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00:21:01,281 --> 00:21:03,400
Speaker 2: or not he still wanted her to be his lawyer.

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Speaker 2: A member of the local defense bar named Thomas Lorenzi

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Speaker 2: was concerned, so he wrote a letter on October ninth,

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Speaker 2: nineteen ninety eight, to the district Court, and in that

350
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Speaker 2: letter he claimed that because there were allegations of criminality

351
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Speaker 2: made against Deputy Deluge in that family court matter, the

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00:21:21,080 --> 00:21:25,561
Speaker 2: pleadings of the domestic case were placed under seal. So

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Speaker 2: this attorney who wrote the letter said he was concerned

354
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Speaker 2: that the conflict of interest could not have been fully

355
00:21:31,681 --> 00:21:37,241
Speaker 2: explained to Thomas Cisco. Thomas's trial started in two thousand,

356
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Speaker 2: with Evelyn u Bray representing him. The trial judge did

357
00:21:40,561 --> 00:21:43,681
Speaker 2: bring up the potential conflict again. This time, the judge

358
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Speaker 2: asked Thomas directly whether he'd read and understood the letter.

359
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Speaker 2: Thomas said he had, so, the court ruled that the

360
00:21:50,801 --> 00:21:54,281
Speaker 2: defense counsel, missus u Bray, could continue to be Thomas's lawyer.

361
00:21:54,961 --> 00:21:57,401
Speaker 2: Both the trial judge and the defense attorney left it

362
00:21:57,481 --> 00:22:00,481
Speaker 2: up to Thomas to decide for himself whether the conflict

363
00:22:00,521 --> 00:22:03,881
Speaker 2: of interest existed. This will come up later at appeal.

364
00:22:05,041 --> 00:22:08,761
Speaker 2: At one point, Thomas was convinced that Deputy Deluche and

365
00:22:08,761 --> 00:22:12,281
Speaker 2: missus Zubray were colluding against him. However, when he was

366
00:22:12,321 --> 00:22:15,160
Speaker 2: asked about this by the court, he said he didn't

367
00:22:15,161 --> 00:22:19,881
Speaker 2: have any doubts about missus u Bray representing him. Deputy

368
00:22:19,921 --> 00:22:22,601
Speaker 2: Deluche was married to his wife in nineteen ninety. They

369
00:22:22,641 --> 00:22:26,681
Speaker 2: divorced a few years later. According to the book Murder

370
00:22:26,721 --> 00:22:30,360
Speaker 2: in the Bayou, Deputy Deluche's ex wife accused him and

371
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Speaker 2: his girlfriend at the time of sexually molesting their daughter,

372
00:22:33,481 --> 00:22:37,401
Speaker 2: who was then about four years old. So Deputy Deluge

373
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Speaker 2: was charged with aggravated rape and aggravated oral sexual battery

374
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Speaker 2: charges on October twenty second, nineteen ninety seven, right in

375
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Speaker 2: the middle of the kk's Corner investigation. Missus Zubray was

376
00:22:48,801 --> 00:22:54,241
Speaker 2: his attorney. In court documents, it's very clear the state's

377
00:22:54,321 --> 00:22:59,601
Speaker 2: case boils down to the testimony of two people, Virginia Johnson,

378
00:22:59,641 --> 00:23:03,801
Speaker 2: the witness, and Thomas Cisco. We've already explained how problematic

379
00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:07,920
Speaker 2: Thomas Cisco's testimony potentially was, but Virginia's witness ID had

380
00:23:07,961 --> 00:23:11,841
Speaker 2: problems as well. First of all, Virginia Johnson had never

381
00:23:11,961 --> 00:23:14,321
Speaker 2: been able to give a description of the man inside

382
00:23:14,321 --> 00:23:17,080
Speaker 2: the gas station, the one she didn't bump into, but

383
00:23:17,281 --> 00:23:20,321
Speaker 2: she said he had a Marlborough keychain. Yet when Deputy

384
00:23:20,361 --> 00:23:24,321
Speaker 2: Deluge held a lineup, she identified Tomas Cisco, and at

385
00:23:24,321 --> 00:23:27,441
Speaker 2: that time she was also apparently able to remember details

386
00:23:27,481 --> 00:23:31,120
Speaker 2: for the first time, including that the man she didn't

387
00:23:31,161 --> 00:23:33,321
Speaker 2: see that well had a tattoo on his left hand.

388
00:23:33,721 --> 00:23:37,681
Speaker 2: Thomas has tattoos on both hands. Later, she was hypnotized,

389
00:23:37,681 --> 00:23:40,321
Speaker 2: and it was only under hypnosis that she remembered a

390
00:23:40,401 --> 00:23:43,321
Speaker 2: rabbit head keychain, not a rabbit foot, and yet in

391
00:23:43,321 --> 00:23:46,120
Speaker 2: the Marrior Because Most Wanted episode, the re enactment is

392
00:23:46,201 --> 00:23:48,721
Speaker 2: done with the actor wearing a rabbit's foot key chain.

393
00:23:49,441 --> 00:23:52,840
Speaker 2: Of course, it's possible Thomas Sisko wasn't even there on

394
00:23:52,881 --> 00:23:55,241
Speaker 2: the night of the kk's Corner murders, that the whole

395
00:23:55,281 --> 00:23:58,321
Speaker 2: thing was a false confession. This was the argument that

396
00:23:58,401 --> 00:24:02,281
Speaker 2: Thomas's lawyers were leaning on during the trial. Thomas's attorney,

397
00:24:02,321 --> 00:24:05,080
Speaker 2: Missus zu Bray, said that he gave the false confessions

398
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Speaker 2: because he lacked quote a mature and established self identity,

399
00:24:08,921 --> 00:24:12,721
Speaker 2: and therefore he was easily influenced by persons and authority

400
00:24:12,721 --> 00:24:15,481
Speaker 2: and chameleon like would say anything in an effort to

401
00:24:15,481 --> 00:24:19,080
Speaker 2: please whomever he was with end quote. However, it was

402
00:24:19,201 --> 00:24:22,401
Speaker 2: ruled at trial that the expert presenting on false confession

403
00:24:22,481 --> 00:24:26,521
Speaker 2: syndrome did not have enough expertise, so there couldn't be

404
00:24:26,601 --> 00:24:30,681
Speaker 2: any more arguments presented about false confession syndrome. We have

405
00:24:30,881 --> 00:24:34,161
Speaker 2: done Foyer requests for the entire recordings of Thomas's confession

406
00:24:34,281 --> 00:24:38,001
Speaker 2: with Deputy Deluge. So far we have not had any luck,

407
00:24:38,441 --> 00:24:42,001
Speaker 2: but the confessions lasted for several hours. The response that

408
00:24:42,041 --> 00:24:44,721
Speaker 2: we got to our Feyer Requests indicates that even though

409
00:24:44,801 --> 00:24:48,840
Speaker 2: Thomas Cisco has been tried, the second man was never found,

410
00:24:49,281 --> 00:24:52,561
Speaker 2: so it's still classified as an open investigation, and the

411
00:24:52,601 --> 00:24:56,600
Speaker 2: incident report we did receive was heavily redacted. Some of

412
00:24:56,641 --> 00:24:59,721
Speaker 2: the pages we got are basically Sheriff's department letterhead with

413
00:24:59,840 --> 00:25:05,321
Speaker 2: one giant black square. Marty's brother, Lane Lebeuff has spoken

414
00:25:05,361 --> 00:25:08,160
Speaker 2: to several people over the years and helped create a

415
00:25:08,201 --> 00:25:11,920
Speaker 2: Facebook group Remembering Kk's Corner twenty five years later to

416
00:25:12,001 --> 00:25:15,241
Speaker 2: continue to collect tips related to the Kk's Corner murders.

417
00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:18,081
Speaker 4: The story I got is that he was picked up

418
00:25:18,121 --> 00:25:21,721
Speaker 4: by the main goal for picked up at his apartment

419
00:25:21,761 --> 00:25:25,160
Speaker 4: in New Orleans and fed a bunch of drugs on

420
00:25:25,201 --> 00:25:28,481
Speaker 4: the way back to Lake Charles, and he was supposed

421
00:25:28,481 --> 00:25:29,521
Speaker 4: to be in the lookout.

422
00:25:31,521 --> 00:25:34,481
Speaker 2: Lane has told us he does not believe that Thomas

423
00:25:34,481 --> 00:25:38,281
Speaker 2: Cisco acted alone, but again, the series of events that

424
00:25:38,361 --> 00:25:40,441
Speaker 2: took place on the night of the killings is difficult

425
00:25:40,481 --> 00:25:44,001
Speaker 2: to figure out because Thomas Cisco has told so many

426
00:25:44,001 --> 00:25:48,200
Speaker 2: different stories. Three years after the murders at kk's Corner

427
00:25:48,561 --> 00:25:51,281
Speaker 2: in the fall of two thousand, Thomas Cisco's trial started.

428
00:25:52,121 --> 00:25:55,521
Speaker 2: Nine days later. He was convicted of murder and sentenced

429
00:25:55,561 --> 00:26:01,281
Speaker 2: to death by lethal injection. Thomas appealed. His attorney argued

430
00:26:01,321 --> 00:26:05,161
Speaker 2: that Thomas had not knowingly and intelligently waived his right

431
00:26:05,281 --> 00:26:08,321
Speaker 2: to have an attorney with no existing conflict, and later

432
00:26:08,721 --> 00:26:12,041
Speaker 2: the Louisiana State Supreme Court ruled in his favor. They

433
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:17,081
Speaker 2: reversed the conviction and ordered a new trial. In the end,

434
00:26:17,521 --> 00:26:20,961
Speaker 2: Thomas Cisco's attorneys got him a deal. He pleaded guilty

435
00:26:21,001 --> 00:26:23,921
Speaker 2: to three counts of manslaughter and was sentenced to ninety

436
00:26:24,001 --> 00:26:28,801
Speaker 2: years in prison. Now how just that sentences really depends

437
00:26:28,801 --> 00:26:32,241
Speaker 2: on who you ask. Some people believe that Thomas Cisco

438
00:26:32,321 --> 00:26:34,441
Speaker 2: should stay behind bars for the rest of his life.

439
00:26:35,121 --> 00:26:37,120
Speaker 2: Others say that, due to the fact they believe he

440
00:26:37,161 --> 00:26:40,241
Speaker 2: did not act alone, that he should be freed. He

441
00:26:40,281 --> 00:26:44,281
Speaker 2: became eligible for parole in twenty twenty three. He almost

442
00:26:44,281 --> 00:26:48,161
Speaker 2: got out, but days before he was due to be released,

443
00:26:48,161 --> 00:26:50,921
Speaker 2: his parole was rescinded due to an infraction he committed

444
00:26:50,961 --> 00:26:55,041
Speaker 2: before appearing before the parole board. It apparently involved medication

445
00:26:55,161 --> 00:26:58,241
Speaker 2: that he wasn't supposed to have. So he's still in

446
00:26:58,321 --> 00:27:00,961
Speaker 2: Angola and according to the latest information I can find,

447
00:27:01,201 --> 00:27:07,361
Speaker 2: he's next eligible for parole. In twenty twenty five, there

448
00:27:07,641 --> 00:27:10,841
Speaker 2: was a show on ID called Killer in Question. They

449
00:27:10,921 --> 00:27:14,840
Speaker 2: talked to former district attorney Rick Bryant, who prosecuted Tomas

450
00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:18,080
Speaker 2: Cisco for the Kk's Corner murders. He told the local

451
00:27:18,121 --> 00:27:21,120
Speaker 2: news station, quote, I know he didn't do it alone.

452
00:27:21,441 --> 00:27:23,521
Speaker 2: There's no doubt in my mind. There were at least

453
00:27:23,561 --> 00:27:26,561
Speaker 2: two people, and I base that on number one. To

454
00:27:26,681 --> 00:27:30,001
Speaker 2: control three people in a store is difficult enough, but

455
00:27:30,161 --> 00:27:34,241
Speaker 2: number two, an eyewitness, Virginia Johnson, saw two people. End quote.

456
00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:37,721
Speaker 2: Rick Bryant said on the ID show he believes he

457
00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:41,201
Speaker 2: knows who the second killer may be, saying, quote, this

458
00:27:41,241 --> 00:27:43,640
Speaker 2: guy was from New Orleans, he was Cisco's, one of

459
00:27:43,801 --> 00:27:46,640
Speaker 2: Cisco's best friends, and he is a perfect match to

460
00:27:46,681 --> 00:27:50,201
Speaker 2: the composite drawing that was shown on TV. But Rick

461
00:27:50,241 --> 00:27:53,001
Speaker 2: Bryant said police have spoken with that man and that

462
00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:55,281
Speaker 2: the man claimed to have been with his girlfriend not

463
00:27:55,361 --> 00:27:57,961
Speaker 2: in Lake Charles on the night of the murders. Rick

464
00:27:58,001 --> 00:28:01,001
Speaker 2: Bryant said he would love to prosecute the second gunman,

465
00:28:01,161 --> 00:28:03,681
Speaker 2: if there was one, but he says it's a tough case.

466
00:28:04,001 --> 00:28:06,961
Speaker 2: They have no physical evidence and no other witnesses, so

467
00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:09,321
Speaker 2: the only way that someone else could be tried or

468
00:28:09,361 --> 00:28:12,401
Speaker 2: convicted is if someone confessed and if they could back

469
00:28:12,481 --> 00:28:15,521
Speaker 2: up that confession, or if they found the videotape that

470
00:28:15,601 --> 00:28:18,121
Speaker 2: was stolen the night of the killings, which is probably

471
00:28:18,161 --> 00:28:22,920
Speaker 2: a very remote possibility. Rick also said that if that

472
00:28:23,041 --> 00:28:25,041
Speaker 2: did happen, he would be happy to come back to

473
00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:28,001
Speaker 2: the area to prosecute and possibly seek the death penalty.

474
00:28:29,481 --> 00:28:32,001
Speaker 2: But who is that second man and could there have

475
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:36,001
Speaker 2: been a third? Remember that the witness, Virginia Johnson, said

476
00:28:36,041 --> 00:28:38,561
Speaker 2: she saw two men in a black car, but after

477
00:28:38,601 --> 00:28:41,281
Speaker 2: she left Kk's she picked up her boyfriend at work

478
00:28:41,801 --> 00:28:44,801
Speaker 2: and then they drove back by KK Corner at around

479
00:28:44,881 --> 00:28:48,401
Speaker 2: twelve thirty am. And at that point she said they

480
00:28:48,401 --> 00:28:51,281
Speaker 2: saw another vehicle, a red pickup truck next to the

481
00:28:51,321 --> 00:28:54,321
Speaker 2: black car, and that the red truck had its passenger

482
00:28:54,321 --> 00:28:58,361
Speaker 2: door open. Whose red pickup truck was that? Could they

483
00:28:58,441 --> 00:29:06,081
Speaker 2: have been involved in the killings as well? Respectfully, I'm

484
00:29:06,081 --> 00:29:07,881
Speaker 2: not sure that I agreed with the DA and with

485
00:29:07,961 --> 00:29:10,481
Speaker 2: the police. I think there is still a lot of

486
00:29:10,481 --> 00:29:13,881
Speaker 2: potential clues out there. We just got back a ton

487
00:29:13,921 --> 00:29:17,521
Speaker 2: of information for Foya's and from sources, and I'm hoping

488
00:29:17,561 --> 00:29:20,200
Speaker 2: that next week we will have some of those questions answered.

489
00:29:21,281 --> 00:29:25,281
Speaker 2: Another unanswered question that we had was the missing keys.

490
00:29:26,081 --> 00:29:29,241
Speaker 2: Stacy's keys, the one that opened the employees' safe, were

491
00:29:29,281 --> 00:29:33,081
Speaker 2: found inside the safe. The doors had to be locked

492
00:29:33,161 --> 00:29:37,001
Speaker 2: to close the store. When Virginia Johnson came to the store,

493
00:29:37,121 --> 00:29:39,761
Speaker 2: Stacey was in the process of closing up, and Virginia

494
00:29:39,881 --> 00:29:42,801
Speaker 2: noticed that Stacy had a set of keys hanging from

495
00:29:42,801 --> 00:29:47,281
Speaker 2: her waist. Lame Lebuff claims that when the other coworker

496
00:29:47,361 --> 00:29:49,761
Speaker 2: arrived for work the next morning, she opened the door

497
00:29:49,801 --> 00:29:52,161
Speaker 2: and saw Stacy's purse on the counter and saw that

498
00:29:52,201 --> 00:29:55,321
Speaker 2: the money was missing. Stacy's keys that opened the door

499
00:29:55,321 --> 00:29:57,681
Speaker 2: were found in the safe. So if the doors were locked,

500
00:29:58,201 --> 00:30:00,521
Speaker 2: how did the killer lock the door when they left.

501
00:30:01,441 --> 00:30:04,921
Speaker 2: Laura said she believes it may have been with Marty's keys,

502
00:30:05,161 --> 00:30:07,841
Speaker 2: because she said his key ring was never found.

503
00:30:08,521 --> 00:30:11,921
Speaker 6: He drove a green Ford Bronco. It had been my

504
00:30:12,001 --> 00:30:15,081
Speaker 6: mom's car and she had given it to him, and

505
00:30:16,121 --> 00:30:18,281
Speaker 6: I'm assuming the store keys would have been on the

506
00:30:18,321 --> 00:30:21,641
Speaker 6: same key ring. But they could not find his car

507
00:30:21,761 --> 00:30:24,841
Speaker 6: keys at all. And I don't know anything specifically about

508
00:30:24,961 --> 00:30:28,481
Speaker 6: store keys, but like I said, I know that his

509
00:30:28,601 --> 00:30:30,041
Speaker 6: car keys were never found.

510
00:30:33,361 --> 00:30:36,601
Speaker 2: Laura said that the accusations the sheriff made about family

511
00:30:36,641 --> 00:30:39,401
Speaker 2: members coming after his son just weren't true. She said

512
00:30:39,401 --> 00:30:41,801
Speaker 2: they were as shocked as anyone else when people in

513
00:30:41,881 --> 00:30:44,481
Speaker 2: town started saying they recognized that composit drawing.

514
00:30:45,801 --> 00:30:48,161
Speaker 6: I think they had hypnotized one of the people that

515
00:30:48,201 --> 00:30:48,801
Speaker 6: had been in the.

516
00:30:48,801 --> 00:30:53,561
Speaker 7: Store and they had someone draw a picture of the

517
00:30:53,561 --> 00:30:56,081
Speaker 7: person that they saw in the store. And then it

518
00:30:56,161 --> 00:31:00,961
Speaker 7: came out on KPLC this drawing. And we didn't even

519
00:31:01,081 --> 00:31:04,321
Speaker 7: know Richard McKelvin. I think my brother is close to

520
00:31:04,361 --> 00:31:06,401
Speaker 7: his age and may had seen him out at the

521
00:31:06,441 --> 00:31:08,801
Speaker 7: bar and maybe knew who he was or something like that,

522
00:31:08,881 --> 00:31:14,761
Speaker 7: but very very very casual acquaintance, not anything more than that.

523
00:31:15,841 --> 00:31:19,801
Speaker 7: And it came out that we were making accusations against him,

524
00:31:19,841 --> 00:31:23,001
Speaker 7: and if anybody said anything about him, you know, that

525
00:31:23,081 --> 00:31:26,681
Speaker 7: these families were coming after Wayne mckelvin's son, and.

526
00:31:26,641 --> 00:31:29,521
Speaker 6: It's like, no, we're not. We're not even the ones

527
00:31:29,521 --> 00:31:32,401
Speaker 6: that had the artists make that drawing. And I mean,

528
00:31:32,441 --> 00:31:34,961
Speaker 6: you know, everybody in the town saw the drawing in

529
00:31:35,161 --> 00:31:37,721
Speaker 6: and started naming his name. I never would have known

530
00:31:37,841 --> 00:31:41,841
Speaker 6: who they were talking about, you know, And I don't

531
00:31:41,841 --> 00:31:43,681
Speaker 6: even know that my brother would have. But a lot

532
00:31:43,721 --> 00:31:45,841
Speaker 6: a lot of people came forward and said that, and

533
00:31:45,881 --> 00:31:48,721
Speaker 6: it wasn't us. As a matter of fact, when my

534
00:31:48,841 --> 00:31:52,641
Speaker 6: son was he was two years old and he was

535
00:31:52,641 --> 00:31:56,241
Speaker 6: going to a daycare and the daycare owner pulled me

536
00:31:56,281 --> 00:31:59,441
Speaker 6: aside and said, Richard mckelvin's son is in the class,

537
00:31:59,841 --> 00:32:02,201
Speaker 6: goes to this daycare too. Is there going to be

538
00:32:02,201 --> 00:32:05,481
Speaker 6: any trouble? And I'm like, I wouldn't know him from

539
00:32:05,561 --> 00:32:09,081
Speaker 6: Adam and I don't even know him. No, there's not

540
00:32:09,121 --> 00:32:11,401
Speaker 6: going to be any trouble for me, That's what I'm saying.

541
00:32:11,401 --> 00:32:14,841
Speaker 6: It's like, we weren't targeting him. That's not our motivation

542
00:32:14,961 --> 00:32:18,001
Speaker 6: or our intention. We just you know, our anger was

543
00:32:18,081 --> 00:32:21,081
Speaker 6: never directed at him. It was just the rest of

544
00:32:21,121 --> 00:32:24,801
Speaker 6: the town was saying it was him.

545
00:32:24,961 --> 00:32:29,241
Speaker 2: In twenty eighteen, Lara's brother, Lane Lebuff was brutally attacked

546
00:32:29,241 --> 00:32:32,881
Speaker 2: in the parking lot of a local Louisiana casino. Lane

547
00:32:32,961 --> 00:32:35,721
Speaker 2: said that he believes that law enforcement knows who the

548
00:32:35,721 --> 00:32:38,440
Speaker 2: perpetrators are, and he says there is video of the attack,

549
00:32:39,161 --> 00:32:42,401
Speaker 2: but he says no one has ever been arrested or charged.

550
00:32:43,401 --> 00:32:46,121
Speaker 2: Lane wonders if the attack was somehow connected to the

551
00:32:46,201 --> 00:32:49,681
Speaker 2: kk's Corner killings. On social media. Over the years, he

552
00:32:49,721 --> 00:32:53,041
Speaker 2: has traded insults with a lot of people, including Richard Mcalvin.

553
00:32:53,601 --> 00:32:56,521
Speaker 2: He's even posted screenshots of what he claims are Richard

554
00:32:56,521 --> 00:33:00,121
Speaker 2: making threats to beat him up. Laura said that she's torn.

555
00:33:00,201 --> 00:33:02,361
Speaker 2: She would love to see justice for her brother, but

556
00:33:02,401 --> 00:33:05,561
Speaker 2: at the same time, even after almost thirty years, she

557
00:33:05,761 --> 00:33:09,161
Speaker 2: says she's still afraid for her family's safety and in

558
00:33:09,201 --> 00:33:12,641
Speaker 2: Southern Louisiana. She says her fear is that when it

559
00:33:12,641 --> 00:33:15,241
Speaker 2: comes to the good old Boys network, but some things

560
00:33:15,281 --> 00:33:19,481
Speaker 2: never change. And while she appreciates investigative journalists who've taken

561
00:33:19,521 --> 00:33:22,361
Speaker 2: an interest in the story and appreciates people coming on

562
00:33:22,401 --> 00:33:25,121
Speaker 2: social media to help, she says that some of the

563
00:33:25,161 --> 00:33:28,681
Speaker 2: comments make her sad because they make it more about

564
00:33:28,681 --> 00:33:31,881
Speaker 2: solving a murder mystery than remembering that these are actual

565
00:33:32,001 --> 00:33:37,241
Speaker 2: victims whose families and lives will never be the same after.

566
00:33:37,001 --> 00:33:41,001
Speaker 6: All this time, I really don't see it being solved.

567
00:33:41,081 --> 00:33:42,881
Speaker 6: If somebody was going to come forward, they would have

568
00:33:42,921 --> 00:33:45,761
Speaker 6: come forward by name. And the people that do know things,

569
00:33:46,001 --> 00:33:47,841
Speaker 6: like you say, they're going to hide under the rocks.

570
00:33:47,841 --> 00:33:50,481
Speaker 6: They're not going to say anything. A lot of people

571
00:33:50,641 --> 00:33:54,681
Speaker 6: on that Facebook page. They're detached from it, and understandably so,

572
00:33:55,481 --> 00:33:57,961
Speaker 6: but they treat it like it's some sort of a

573
00:33:58,041 --> 00:34:02,201
Speaker 6: murder mystery who done it game, sort of make things

574
00:34:02,281 --> 00:34:04,521
Speaker 6: up to fill in their gaps the way they want

575
00:34:04,521 --> 00:34:07,721
Speaker 6: it to be. And they started accusing the owner of

576
00:34:07,761 --> 00:34:11,401
Speaker 6: the store of dealing drugs from the store and being

577
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:15,000
Speaker 6: involved in that kind of stuff, and that was so untrue.

578
00:34:15,201 --> 00:34:18,040
Speaker 6: It just kind of gets a little bit upsetting when

579
00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:20,961
Speaker 6: you read these kinds of things over and over. People

580
00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:25,160
Speaker 6: on Facebook can be completely ridiculous, Like you live your

581
00:34:25,161 --> 00:34:27,560
Speaker 6: whole life not expecting something bad to happen, and then

582
00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:29,841
Speaker 6: when something like this happens, you wait for the next

583
00:34:29,881 --> 00:34:33,281
Speaker 6: bad thing. Your naivety is gone.

584
00:34:35,121 --> 00:34:38,680
Speaker 2: Next week, in our next episode on kk's Corner, we're

585
00:34:38,721 --> 00:34:42,000
Speaker 2: going to answer some questions about Kevin Abel's suicide. We

586
00:34:42,121 --> 00:34:44,960
Speaker 2: have details that have never been made public about the

587
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:47,921
Speaker 2: witness who was there, the drug dealers who are allegedly

588
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:52,040
Speaker 2: driving his truck, and the Calcushoe Parish police officer who

589
00:34:52,081 --> 00:34:54,921
Speaker 2: picked up his truck from an alleged drug dealer. We're

590
00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:57,361
Speaker 2: also going to talk to Stacy's friend, who was a

591
00:34:57,401 --> 00:35:01,001
Speaker 2: former reserve deputy at the Sheriff's department about what Stacy

592
00:35:01,081 --> 00:35:03,040
Speaker 2: said about the threat she was getting in the weeks

593
00:35:03,081 --> 00:35:06,041
Speaker 2: before her murder. And we're going to try to figure

594
00:35:06,081 --> 00:35:09,321
Speaker 2: out what happened to Kevin Abel's truck. Could it have

595
00:35:09,401 --> 00:35:12,001
Speaker 2: been the red truck that was parked at kk's corner

596
00:35:12,001 --> 00:35:16,761
Speaker 2: that night. I'm Catherine Townsend. This is Helen Gone Murder Line.

597
00:35:19,201 --> 00:35:21,281
Speaker 2: Helen Gone Murder Line is a production of School of

598
00:35:21,361 --> 00:35:24,361
Speaker 2: Humans and iHeart Podcasts. It's written and narrated by me

599
00:35:24,601 --> 00:35:28,601
Speaker 2: Catherine Townsend and produced by Gabby Watts. Special thanks to

600
00:35:28,601 --> 00:35:31,440
Speaker 2: Amy Tubbs for her research assistance in James Wheaton for

601
00:35:31,521 --> 00:35:35,401
Speaker 2: legal review. Julia Chris Goau mixed and scored this episode.

602
00:35:35,721 --> 00:35:39,041
Speaker 2: Our theme song is by Ben Sale, Executive producers of

603
00:35:39,121 --> 00:35:42,681
Speaker 2: Virginia Prescott, Brandon Barr, and l. C. Crowley. Listen to

604
00:35:42,721 --> 00:35:45,721
Speaker 2: Helen Gone ad free by subscribing to the iHeart True

605
00:35:45,801 --> 00:35:49,201
Speaker 2: Crime Plus channel on Apple Podcasts. If you were interested

606
00:35:49,241 --> 00:35:51,960
Speaker 2: in seeing documents and materials from the case, you can

607
00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:56,161
Speaker 2: follow the show on Instagram at Helen gonpod. If you

608
00:35:56,321 --> 00:35:57,921
Speaker 2: have a case you'd like me and my team to

609
00:35:57,960 --> 00:36:00,201
Speaker 2: look into, you can reach out to us at our

610
00:36:00,201 --> 00:36:03,361
Speaker 2: Helen Gone Murder line at six seven eight seven four

611
00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:07,321
Speaker 2: four six one four five. That's six seven eight seven

612
00:36:07,401 --> 00:36:09,480
Speaker 2: four four six one four five.

613
00:36:15,481 --> 00:36:16,401
Speaker 1: School of Humans,