1 00:00:11,800 --> 00:00:13,000 Speaker 1: This is making me anxious. 2 00:00:14,240 --> 00:00:19,560 Speaker 2: Belly take a pinch of belly fat. Jam this fucker in. 3 00:00:21,160 --> 00:00:22,160 Speaker 1: Oh there it goes. 4 00:00:24,800 --> 00:00:25,759 Speaker 2: All right, needles in. 5 00:00:26,360 --> 00:00:27,200 Speaker 1: Do you feel pressure? 6 00:00:27,840 --> 00:00:28,680 Speaker 3: Nah? 7 00:00:29,240 --> 00:00:32,320 Speaker 2: Just the initial poke. This part sucks. So I'm injecting 8 00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:35,599 Speaker 2: really slowly. Uh huh depressing the plunger. 9 00:00:37,640 --> 00:00:38,560 Speaker 1: Why do you think go slow? 10 00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:41,720 Speaker 4: Just it hurts lass? Okay. 11 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:44,879 Speaker 1: Chris and I are in my apartment in Brooklyn, and 12 00:00:44,920 --> 00:00:48,080 Speaker 1: for the podcast You Know Research, I asked Chris to 13 00:00:48,080 --> 00:00:50,280 Speaker 1: show me how he administers his weekly shot of n 14 00:00:50,400 --> 00:00:53,240 Speaker 1: D plus, a compound that he says gives him a 15 00:00:53,240 --> 00:00:55,920 Speaker 1: major boost of energy throughout the week and helps him 16 00:00:56,000 --> 00:00:57,960 Speaker 1: keep up with the demands of raising a four year old. 17 00:00:58,600 --> 00:01:02,120 Speaker 4: Do you want to try it right now? All right? 18 00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:03,320 Speaker 3: Yeah it? 19 00:01:03,440 --> 00:01:04,520 Speaker 1: Do you have a Do you have a? 20 00:01:05,520 --> 00:01:05,679 Speaker 4: Oh? 21 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:06,520 Speaker 2: I have another alcohol? 22 00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:09,839 Speaker 1: Okay, not our finest moment together, but for the record, 23 00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:13,119 Speaker 1: we didn't share needles. Chris had a separate, unused pen 24 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:15,480 Speaker 1: with him and inside was another dose of n A 25 00:01:15,520 --> 00:01:16,440 Speaker 1: D plus. 26 00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:17,720 Speaker 2: So I'll set it up for you. 27 00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:24,039 Speaker 3: Off, put the needle in in your belly, I press it. 28 00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:26,080 Speaker 3: Do you want to do it? 29 00:01:26,160 --> 00:01:26,920 Speaker 4: So? What you're gonna do? 30 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:28,080 Speaker 3: Put the needle in? 31 00:01:28,319 --> 00:01:29,240 Speaker 4: How hard is the push. 32 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:31,440 Speaker 2: So the button is just a click button. 33 00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:32,720 Speaker 4: Yeah. 34 00:01:32,840 --> 00:01:35,160 Speaker 2: So take take a pinch of the belly fat like 35 00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:36,520 Speaker 2: like like really like pinch it. 36 00:01:37,760 --> 00:01:39,560 Speaker 4: Yeah, and then you press the button. 37 00:01:40,640 --> 00:01:51,160 Speaker 3: Keeep it in there. One, two, three, four, five, perfect, seven, eight, nine, ten, 38 00:01:51,240 --> 00:01:51,720 Speaker 3: Take it out. 39 00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:57,040 Speaker 4: You did it. That does feel weird. It's weird, right. 40 00:01:56,960 --> 00:01:59,800 Speaker 2: What did you what did you feel this warm? 41 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:04,080 Speaker 1: Mm hmm okay, confession time. I didn't really notice anything 42 00:02:04,200 --> 00:02:06,040 Speaker 1: change after I took the ana D injection. 43 00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:06,320 Speaker 4: YEA. 44 00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:10,280 Speaker 1: No boost of energy, no pep in my step, no 45 00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:12,919 Speaker 1: lightning recovery from my muy Thai sessions or my five 46 00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:18,280 Speaker 1: K runs. Nothing felt different. But these drugs, they're everywhere. 47 00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:21,840 Speaker 1: I see people all over the internet openly and eagerly 48 00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:24,880 Speaker 1: documenting the mix of performance enhancing drugs that they're experimenting with. 49 00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:29,680 Speaker 1: Each of these cocktails made of steroids or peptides or both. 50 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:33,400 Speaker 1: They call them stacks, like the Wolverine stack, which is 51 00:02:33,560 --> 00:02:36,600 Speaker 1: named for the comic book character, or the God stack, 52 00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:42,040 Speaker 1: named for you know, God. But those recipes, the combination 53 00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:44,520 Speaker 1: of drugs, basically, they're endless. 54 00:02:44,760 --> 00:02:48,240 Speaker 5: Anovar are in testosterone update day ten one. 55 00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:50,359 Speaker 4: My libido is through the roof. 56 00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:53,320 Speaker 1: Two, My appetite is like sky high. 57 00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:54,400 Speaker 6: I cannot stop. 58 00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:56,240 Speaker 1: Eating a lot of your casual gim bros are going 59 00:02:56,320 --> 00:02:58,840 Speaker 1: to say, hey, start off your cycle with your dianabal as. 60 00:02:58,840 --> 00:03:01,400 Speaker 1: You're on testostrode and you're going to get big really quickly. 61 00:03:01,480 --> 00:03:04,200 Speaker 1: The steroid that everyone swears is the nectar of the gods. 62 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:08,520 Speaker 1: Spoiler tremblone aka trend. We're really doing it boys. It's 63 00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:12,000 Speaker 1: not just a masculinity thing either. These drugs, they're for 64 00:03:12,040 --> 00:03:12,560 Speaker 1: women too. 65 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:16,000 Speaker 7: I started with BPC one seven and I immediately fell 66 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:20,320 Speaker 7: in love. Why because my hair grew an insane amount, 67 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:23,360 Speaker 7: my skin was glowing. It helps your gut health, and 68 00:03:23,400 --> 00:03:27,440 Speaker 7: when your gut health is happy, everything else is happy. Okay, 69 00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:29,200 Speaker 7: it's great for inflammation covery. 70 00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:31,960 Speaker 1: These days, i'd say one in every three ads on 71 00:03:31,960 --> 00:03:35,240 Speaker 1: my social media feeds or for steroids or peptides or 72 00:03:35,280 --> 00:03:38,320 Speaker 1: some other exciting new drug. And the way they're marketed 73 00:03:38,360 --> 00:03:40,840 Speaker 1: to me, it's like a boardroom full of suits read 74 00:03:40,880 --> 00:03:45,080 Speaker 1: my diary and said let's invoke those specific insecurities like 75 00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:47,880 Speaker 1: too tired, unable to focus. There's a drug for that, 76 00:03:48,120 --> 00:03:50,840 Speaker 1: and it cost one hundred and fifty dollars. Hair thinning, 77 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:53,720 Speaker 1: hairline receding, there's a drug for that that cost one 78 00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:57,120 Speaker 1: hundred and fifty dollars. Too hungry yo yoing weight one 79 00:03:57,200 --> 00:04:00,360 Speaker 1: hundred and fifty dollars. The government is holding a mirror 80 00:04:00,440 --> 00:04:03,480 Speaker 1: up to this shift too. The Trump administration recently moved 81 00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:06,120 Speaker 1: to reclassify a long list of peptides so that they 82 00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:10,120 Speaker 1: can be manufactured in the US. And then there's the 83 00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:13,960 Speaker 1: Enhanced Games. At the first Enhanced Games, athletes will break 84 00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:18,279 Speaker 1: world records. When that happens, everyone's going to say what 85 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:20,680 Speaker 1: is he on? And how do I get it? And 86 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:25,000 Speaker 1: to enhance credit. Well, if nothing else right place right time, 87 00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:28,159 Speaker 1: turning new fads into real revenue. What I want to 88 00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:32,719 Speaker 1: know is what happened? Why are people men especially so 89 00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:36,000 Speaker 1: eager to get in on this cultural shift. How is 90 00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:38,200 Speaker 1: it that enhanced knew this was the right moment to 91 00:04:38,240 --> 00:04:43,560 Speaker 1: appeal to the masses From Kaleidoscope and iHeart podcasts, this 92 00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:52,479 Speaker 1: is superhuman. I'm Sam Egan. I'm going to reddit for 93 00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:56,080 Speaker 1: him our slash testosterone. When I noticed a guy named Aaron. 94 00:04:56,760 --> 00:04:59,480 Speaker 1: He's in his late thirties and from the transformation photos 95 00:04:59,480 --> 00:05:03,159 Speaker 1: he's posting, I can see he's white with thirty blonde hair. Also, 96 00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:06,240 Speaker 1: from the photos, which spans six months, I can tell 97 00:05:06,279 --> 00:05:09,839 Speaker 1: he's lost a ton of weight, forty three pounds, he says. 98 00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:13,880 Speaker 1: In his after pictures, Aaron's cheeks are sharper, his abs 99 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:16,000 Speaker 1: are beginning to pop, and his shoulders look more to 100 00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:20,800 Speaker 1: fined sculpted. In the photos caption, Eron lists the contents 101 00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:24,640 Speaker 1: of his stack TRT two hundred milligrams right a true 102 00:05:24,640 --> 00:05:29,760 Speaker 1: tide between one milligram and twelve milligrams hCG parenthetical for fertility, 103 00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:33,920 Speaker 1: clomofin parenthetical for fertility, one hundred and fifty to two 104 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:39,560 Speaker 1: hundred grams protein parenthetical meat and clear protein drink, creatine powder, 105 00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:40,800 Speaker 1: and el glutamine powder. 106 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:43,320 Speaker 5: So there was an ad that came out and it 107 00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:46,720 Speaker 5: showed a guy like snowboarding through the back country and 108 00:05:46,760 --> 00:05:50,760 Speaker 5: there's this like electronic music playing in the background, and 109 00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:55,919 Speaker 5: the overall tone of this was like futuristic cutting edge. 110 00:05:56,240 --> 00:05:58,719 Speaker 1: I reach out to Aaron to find out more about him, 111 00:05:59,080 --> 00:06:01,479 Speaker 1: what he's working towards, and why. 112 00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:06,520 Speaker 5: It positioned it as something new and something that will 113 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:11,400 Speaker 5: obviously be ubiquitous in a few years, like the next 114 00:06:11,800 --> 00:06:13,200 Speaker 5: step in evolution. 115 00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:15,799 Speaker 1: The first time we talk, Aaron's gone on a polo 116 00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:18,720 Speaker 1: shirt and an old school headset, like he's a telemarketer. 117 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:23,159 Speaker 1: Behind him is an empty white wall no windows. He 118 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:25,320 Speaker 1: reminds me of one of the background brokers in the 119 00:06:25,320 --> 00:06:28,760 Speaker 1: Wolf of Wall Street. Aaron says he lives in Florida, 120 00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:32,080 Speaker 1: works in sales. You might be wondering how Aaron gets 121 00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:33,000 Speaker 1: most of these drugs. 122 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:35,840 Speaker 5: Getting it through a US distributor is something you only 123 00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:41,719 Speaker 5: do until you know enough to access labs directly in China. 124 00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:45,839 Speaker 1: A network of manufacturing labs outside the US, often in China, 125 00:06:46,320 --> 00:06:51,120 Speaker 1: the gray market, selling directly to consumers, skipping the middleman entirely. 126 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:54,920 Speaker 1: Here's the thing about these gray market drugs. Though they 127 00:06:54,920 --> 00:06:58,440 Speaker 1: aren't certified by the FDA, which is one the only 128 00:06:58,480 --> 00:07:00,359 Speaker 1: way to know for sure that what you're taking is 129 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:05,440 Speaker 1: provably effective for its marketed purpose, two dose safely, and 130 00:07:05,560 --> 00:07:08,480 Speaker 1: three that only what's supposed to be in it is 131 00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:12,320 Speaker 1: on the gray market without an FDA, consumers need to 132 00:07:12,360 --> 00:07:14,320 Speaker 1: work around, and they find them. 133 00:07:14,680 --> 00:07:19,360 Speaker 5: They get together in groups and do testing where they'll 134 00:07:19,440 --> 00:07:22,720 Speaker 5: order from a specific vendor and everyone will send a 135 00:07:22,760 --> 00:07:27,360 Speaker 5: sample to make sure that a vendor that this group 136 00:07:27,480 --> 00:07:29,760 Speaker 5: is accepting has. 137 00:07:29,640 --> 00:07:32,960 Speaker 4: A legit product. Because these labs. 138 00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:38,000 Speaker 5: They rely on their reputation in this group to sell 139 00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:38,640 Speaker 5: their product. 140 00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:42,800 Speaker 1: What strikes me about this system, the people buying the 141 00:07:42,880 --> 00:07:46,000 Speaker 1: drugs are doubling as the people ensuring the drugs efficacy 142 00:07:46,360 --> 00:07:49,920 Speaker 1: and its safety. They're literally paying to be the Labyretts. 143 00:07:51,280 --> 00:07:53,640 Speaker 1: This market is such a new phenomena that it hasn't 144 00:07:53,640 --> 00:07:56,240 Speaker 1: gotten a ton of peer reviewed research yet. But one 145 00:07:56,280 --> 00:07:59,200 Speaker 1: recent test found that a vial of BPC one five seven, 146 00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:04,080 Speaker 1: a popular heptide, sold by an unregulated supplier, contained measurable 147 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:08,200 Speaker 1: amounts of lead. Groups like Aaron's describing that they're the 148 00:08:08,200 --> 00:08:10,680 Speaker 1: one who's deciding to risk it and test drugs on themselves, 149 00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:13,640 Speaker 1: like they have to get lead poisoning to find out 150 00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:18,680 Speaker 1: that the product they're buying contains lead. So not great. 151 00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:22,320 Speaker 1: What motivates a person to do this, to take such 152 00:08:22,440 --> 00:08:23,720 Speaker 1: risky gambles with their body. 153 00:08:24,320 --> 00:08:29,800 Speaker 5: My dad was your prototypical sports coach. He was very 154 00:08:30,080 --> 00:08:31,600 Speaker 5: serious about my training, and. 155 00:08:31,640 --> 00:08:34,280 Speaker 1: Aaron says, in a past life he was an athlete, 156 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:38,880 Speaker 1: raised playing hockey, and however that shaped his body, his physique. 157 00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:41,920 Speaker 1: That was a point of pride for his father. Maybe 158 00:08:41,920 --> 00:08:43,920 Speaker 1: two or three times a week when guests were over 159 00:08:43,960 --> 00:08:46,840 Speaker 1: at the house, He remembers hearing his dad call for him. 160 00:08:47,040 --> 00:08:48,959 Speaker 5: I always knew the reason he was calling me. It's 161 00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:51,719 Speaker 5: because he wanted me to take my shirt off and 162 00:08:51,840 --> 00:08:54,760 Speaker 5: flex for his guests and show me off to his 163 00:08:55,559 --> 00:09:00,280 Speaker 5: business partners or family friends or whoever. In retrospective, kind 164 00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:02,160 Speaker 5: of weird, having like a you know, twelve year old 165 00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:04,520 Speaker 5: kid take a shirt off and flex for everybody all the. 166 00:09:04,480 --> 00:09:08,360 Speaker 1: Time kind of weird is one way to put it 167 00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:10,880 Speaker 1: the way Aaron talks about it, though, I think it 168 00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:14,160 Speaker 1: created a complex. No matter how fit he was when 169 00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:15,360 Speaker 1: he looked in the mirror. 170 00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:20,000 Speaker 5: I always saw something problematic no matter what weight I 171 00:09:20,080 --> 00:09:23,280 Speaker 5: was at. You know, if I was walking around at 172 00:09:23,280 --> 00:09:26,720 Speaker 5: one seventy or one seventy five, I might have felt 173 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:29,920 Speaker 5: like my upper body popped out too much. 174 00:09:30,320 --> 00:09:32,720 Speaker 1: By the time Aaron was in his teens, he'd moved 175 00:09:32,720 --> 00:09:36,520 Speaker 1: on from hockey. Now he was boxing. He competed all 176 00:09:36,559 --> 00:09:38,480 Speaker 1: through high school, but then dropped it when he went 177 00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:42,040 Speaker 1: off to college, and for a time he stayed reasonably fit, 178 00:09:42,880 --> 00:09:44,160 Speaker 1: but then thirty hit. 179 00:09:44,480 --> 00:09:48,199 Speaker 5: I had been like steadily gaining weight and getting more 180 00:09:48,200 --> 00:09:49,160 Speaker 5: and more out of shape. 181 00:09:49,240 --> 00:09:52,240 Speaker 1: And it wasn't just his aesthetics. Aaron was worried about. 182 00:09:52,360 --> 00:09:54,800 Speaker 1: It was his health. He says. At around that time 183 00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:57,840 Speaker 1: he developed scoliosis in his back, and maybe that's because 184 00:09:57,840 --> 00:10:00,600 Speaker 1: of the weight gain, maybe from an old spo orts injury. 185 00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:05,120 Speaker 1: Either way, he was in extreme pain, constantly sleeping maybe 186 00:10:05,160 --> 00:10:09,400 Speaker 1: three hours a night. After that, he stopped wanting to 187 00:10:09,400 --> 00:10:12,839 Speaker 1: get out of bed. Yeah, because it hurt. But there 188 00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:13,840 Speaker 1: was another reason too. 189 00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:17,080 Speaker 5: A big part of it was also just the motivation 190 00:10:17,280 --> 00:10:22,160 Speaker 5: to tackle anything that needs tackling in life, you know, 191 00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:28,200 Speaker 5: career aspirations and goals. Everything was just not worth the trouble. 192 00:10:29,720 --> 00:10:31,680 Speaker 5: I spent a lot of that time just laying on 193 00:10:31,720 --> 00:10:35,719 Speaker 5: the couch watching TV, all the seasons of Narcos, And 194 00:10:36,640 --> 00:10:40,160 Speaker 5: there was a long period where I had no relationship, 195 00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:44,000 Speaker 5: really had no one in my life for probably six 196 00:10:44,120 --> 00:10:44,880 Speaker 5: or seven years. 197 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:47,480 Speaker 1: At some point in this stretch, Aaron tells me that 198 00:10:47,520 --> 00:10:50,079 Speaker 1: he tried to stosterone for the first time. He'd seen 199 00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:52,959 Speaker 1: a family member on it go from quote dadbod to ripped, 200 00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:56,960 Speaker 1: and that family member taking the cystosterone. He told Aaron 201 00:10:57,040 --> 00:10:59,040 Speaker 1: it had helped with his mood and with his motivation 202 00:10:59,120 --> 00:11:01,760 Speaker 1: in the weight room. What if this was the answer 203 00:11:01,800 --> 00:11:04,640 Speaker 1: that he'd been looking for the reason he'd been feeling 204 00:11:04,679 --> 00:11:07,000 Speaker 1: so awful, so he found a doctor. 205 00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:09,600 Speaker 5: He was kind of a sketchy doctor. To be honest 206 00:11:09,640 --> 00:11:12,160 Speaker 5: with you, I knew I could easily get it from 207 00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:16,200 Speaker 5: this type of doctor, and I was expecting it to 208 00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:17,959 Speaker 5: be like that movie Limitless. 209 00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:21,160 Speaker 1: That movie Limitless, it comes up a lot on this show, 210 00:11:21,679 --> 00:11:23,640 Speaker 1: like so many people we spoke to brought it up. 211 00:11:24,520 --> 00:11:26,800 Speaker 1: I've never seen it, but according to the Internet, it's 212 00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:30,200 Speaker 1: about a man played by Bradley Cooper, who is quote 213 00:11:30,400 --> 00:11:34,280 Speaker 1: facing unemployment and his girlfriend's rejection. He has no future, 214 00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:36,640 Speaker 1: but that all changes when a friend gives him a 215 00:11:36,720 --> 00:11:41,240 Speaker 1: drug that produces enhanced mental acuity instantly. If nothing else, 216 00:11:41,280 --> 00:11:44,520 Speaker 1: it's on the nose. But anyways, back to Aaron and 217 00:11:44,559 --> 00:11:46,200 Speaker 1: his first time on testosterone. 218 00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:48,360 Speaker 5: Everyone tries to make it seem like it's just like 219 00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:51,000 Speaker 5: a night and day difference, and the fact is it's very, 220 00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:52,120 Speaker 5: very subtle. 221 00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:57,199 Speaker 1: A year later, he'd lost about seventy pounds, which doesn't 222 00:11:57,200 --> 00:12:00,880 Speaker 1: sound so subtle. At around that same time, on vacation 223 00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:04,600 Speaker 1: in Colombia, Aaron met somebody. They hit it off, got married. 224 00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:06,880 Speaker 1: His wife moved to the US to be with him. 225 00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:09,520 Speaker 1: They wanted to start a family and because there's some 226 00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:13,040 Speaker 1: evidence that testosterone can impact male fertility. Aaron went off 227 00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:16,439 Speaker 1: of it soon after the weight came back. He was 228 00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:18,920 Speaker 1: up to three hundred pounds. Aaron says when that weight 229 00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:22,400 Speaker 1: did come back, so did his depression and his backbane. 230 00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:26,040 Speaker 1: But the most relentless feeling what he spent the most 231 00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:29,080 Speaker 1: time ruminating on? What did other people think when they 232 00:12:29,080 --> 00:12:33,480 Speaker 1: saw him and overweight erin with his hot, thin wife, 233 00:12:33,679 --> 00:12:38,680 Speaker 1: her being, you know, from Columbia, having come here on 234 00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:43,319 Speaker 1: a fiancee visa. People usually assume like very specific things 235 00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:47,760 Speaker 1: about a marriage like that. What he means is people 236 00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:51,400 Speaker 1: assume she married him for the visa for American citizenship, 237 00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:54,640 Speaker 1: because why else would she be with someone who looks 238 00:12:54,679 --> 00:12:55,120 Speaker 1: like him. 239 00:12:55,160 --> 00:12:59,000 Speaker 5: So it was upsetting to me to think that like this, 240 00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:05,920 Speaker 5: you know, this couple with the husband being a super 241 00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:10,800 Speaker 5: overweight guy. I always wondered if people would wonder if 242 00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:13,160 Speaker 5: we had that type of a. 243 00:13:13,080 --> 00:13:17,520 Speaker 1: Marriage, which just to say worrying that other people think 244 00:13:17,559 --> 00:13:20,960 Speaker 1: that sounds hard enough. But Aaron also says the way 245 00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:23,800 Speaker 1: he looked it made him question his wife's taste too. 246 00:13:24,240 --> 00:13:26,800 Speaker 5: You know, why would someone want to be with someone 247 00:13:26,880 --> 00:13:29,320 Speaker 5: that's so overweight and appears like that. 248 00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:32,960 Speaker 1: My co producer on this show, Lena, She's also on 249 00:13:32,960 --> 00:13:33,360 Speaker 1: this call. 250 00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:36,840 Speaker 6: I'm not a guy, and certainly I don't care about 251 00:13:36,880 --> 00:13:40,839 Speaker 6: peptid er steroids. But I'm very comfortable admitting that as 252 00:13:40,880 --> 00:13:43,600 Speaker 6: a woman, I've spent big spass of my life imagining 253 00:13:43,640 --> 00:13:45,320 Speaker 6: what I look like to the people looking at me. 254 00:13:46,160 --> 00:13:48,040 Speaker 6: What can they see in the sun that I can't 255 00:13:48,040 --> 00:13:51,160 Speaker 6: see in a mirror? Is my sci fi showing? Was 256 00:13:51,160 --> 00:13:53,040 Speaker 6: I bailed on for a second date because of my 257 00:13:53,080 --> 00:13:56,880 Speaker 6: personality or because of how big my ass is? And 258 00:13:56,880 --> 00:13:59,679 Speaker 6: which of those answers is supposed to be the better one? 259 00:14:01,240 --> 00:14:04,320 Speaker 6: So I ask Aaron if the roles were reversed, if 260 00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:06,680 Speaker 6: his wife gained a bunch of weight, would that have 261 00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:08,640 Speaker 6: any impact on how much he wants to be with her. 262 00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:12,880 Speaker 5: I've always cared a lot about how we appear physically 263 00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:16,200 Speaker 5: as a couple. It might be shallow in some ways, 264 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:19,680 Speaker 5: but it is something that's important to me to have 265 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:23,680 Speaker 5: a certain image as a couple. So that you know 266 00:14:23,760 --> 00:14:28,000 Speaker 5: the truth is, maybe it would be uncomfortable if the 267 00:14:28,040 --> 00:14:31,680 Speaker 5: shoe was on the other foot, And yeah, I probably 268 00:14:31,760 --> 00:14:33,160 Speaker 5: would struggle. 269 00:14:32,680 --> 00:14:34,680 Speaker 4: With that a little bit. To be completely. 270 00:14:34,240 --> 00:14:39,920 Speaker 6: Honest, not the answer I expected. I think we spend 271 00:14:39,960 --> 00:14:43,640 Speaker 6: our whole lives gathering all of these insecurities, these suspicions 272 00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:46,320 Speaker 6: about what other people think of us, and what we 273 00:14:46,360 --> 00:14:49,120 Speaker 6: hear back so often is that it's all in our heads. 274 00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:51,480 Speaker 6: No one thinks about us as much as we think 275 00:14:51,520 --> 00:14:57,800 Speaker 6: about ourselves. Hearing Aaron say otherwise it sucks. At the 276 00:14:57,800 --> 00:15:00,400 Speaker 6: same time, I find it so relieving to hear someone 277 00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:04,920 Speaker 6: just say the damn saying okay, back to the boys. 278 00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:08,160 Speaker 1: Aaron and I have been conditioned to filter our bodies 279 00:15:08,160 --> 00:15:11,200 Speaker 1: through the lens of sports. In my case, because of wrestling, 280 00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:14,160 Speaker 1: I was a heavyweight, one of the big guys on 281 00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:17,800 Speaker 1: a team made up of absurdly lean men constantly crash 282 00:15:17,880 --> 00:15:22,120 Speaker 1: dieting like four percent body fat. Even at my smallest, 283 00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:24,840 Speaker 1: I was the fat guy in the group. It's changed 284 00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:28,920 Speaker 1: how I dress, how I move, what I think about myself. 285 00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:33,040 Speaker 1: People call me Big Sam, they always have. I hate it, 286 00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:36,640 Speaker 1: and so much of that is rooted in my athletic ambitions. 287 00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:39,920 Speaker 1: Even after I was done with wrestling, I spent the 288 00:15:39,920 --> 00:15:42,240 Speaker 1: rest of my twenties obsessing over staying as close to 289 00:15:42,280 --> 00:15:45,520 Speaker 1: my fighting weight as possible. I'd weigh myself three times 290 00:15:45,560 --> 00:15:48,120 Speaker 1: a day, restrict my eating for days or weeks at 291 00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:51,920 Speaker 1: a time. Sometimes I even cut out water. If I 292 00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:54,720 Speaker 1: hadn't grown up in such machismost circles, it would have 293 00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:58,400 Speaker 1: been called an eating disorder. Honestly, it was an eating disorder. 294 00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:00,200 Speaker 1: And what was it all for? Four? 295 00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:00,560 Speaker 4: Really? 296 00:16:01,520 --> 00:16:03,840 Speaker 5: A big part of all this was like how my 297 00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:09,560 Speaker 5: father saw me as my coach and as my idol 298 00:16:09,640 --> 00:16:10,480 Speaker 5: in a lot of ways. 299 00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:13,080 Speaker 1: Aaron tells me about a recent trip he took to 300 00:16:13,080 --> 00:16:15,680 Speaker 1: see his dad after losing all that weight now that 301 00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:16,720 Speaker 1: he's small again. 302 00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:20,080 Speaker 5: And my dad at one point when we were alone, 303 00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:22,400 Speaker 5: he kind of like half pulled me into his lap 304 00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:24,560 Speaker 5: like I was still a you know, a thirteen year 305 00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:28,200 Speaker 5: old kid, twelve year old kid, and was telling me 306 00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:31,960 Speaker 5: how proud he was of me. And I hadn't given 307 00:16:32,040 --> 00:16:35,120 Speaker 5: him any reason in you know, twenty plus years to 308 00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:35,760 Speaker 5: be proud of me. 309 00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:41,960 Speaker 1: When I was a kid, my dad never missed a 310 00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:46,120 Speaker 1: wrestling match, never, and sometimes before it was my turn 311 00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:49,200 Speaker 1: to compete, he'd sit with me and massage my traps 312 00:16:49,280 --> 00:16:52,360 Speaker 1: and my biceps and my back, and he'd tell me 313 00:16:52,400 --> 00:16:55,160 Speaker 1: how powerful I was, how proud of me he was. 314 00:16:56,120 --> 00:17:00,800 Speaker 1: He'd call me his moose his genetic freak. It made 315 00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:04,200 Speaker 1: me feel so good. And now that my life isn't 316 00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:07,160 Speaker 1: centered on being an athlete, I don't have that anymore, 317 00:17:08,600 --> 00:17:11,879 Speaker 1: but I want it and I miss it. When I 318 00:17:11,880 --> 00:17:15,560 Speaker 1: step back and really think about this stuff, the obsession 319 00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:19,040 Speaker 1: with what's in the mirror, the stacks of drugs, I 320 00:17:19,040 --> 00:17:22,000 Speaker 1: guess it's not so confusing at all. We're all just 321 00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:26,640 Speaker 1: licking old wounds, and now, because of companies like Enhanced, 322 00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:32,920 Speaker 1: we have the option to do so with drugs. 323 00:17:35,840 --> 00:17:37,760 Speaker 8: I'm a nineteen year old who can afford his own 324 00:17:37,800 --> 00:17:41,320 Speaker 8: gear in his own fucking groceries, bread so online. 325 00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:44,639 Speaker 1: AJ's open about his steroid us. In videos, you can 326 00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:47,400 Speaker 1: see him flexing for the camera, his age and height 327 00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:50,439 Speaker 1: posted on the screen, plus his current stack of steroids. 328 00:17:51,320 --> 00:17:53,760 Speaker 1: Usually there's rap or heavy metal music on in the background. 329 00:17:54,560 --> 00:17:57,520 Speaker 1: Man just hop on. His eyes are bulging and red. 330 00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:00,680 Speaker 1: In most of his clips, it's nighttime, only enough light 331 00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:04,080 Speaker 1: to show his frame. Everything behind him is pitch black. 332 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:06,399 Speaker 1: We got on the phone back in February. 333 00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:09,040 Speaker 4: I've been on testosterals for like twenty weeks. 334 00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:12,320 Speaker 1: Oh so it's still that's doing math that's like five months. 335 00:18:13,280 --> 00:18:15,399 Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, how are you? 336 00:18:15,640 --> 00:18:16,399 Speaker 1: How are you feeling. 337 00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:19,760 Speaker 8: I feel like I feel like an animal. You know, 338 00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:22,640 Speaker 8: I just feel, you know, you know, like very powerful. 339 00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:25,520 Speaker 8: I feel like there's no goal that I can't achieve. 340 00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:27,199 Speaker 8: You know, I feel like I can do anything in 341 00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:30,200 Speaker 8: the world. It really puts you like in a motivated state. 342 00:18:30,280 --> 00:18:30,960 Speaker 4: Twenty four seven. 343 00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:34,160 Speaker 1: Aj says he grew up playing football and he originally 344 00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:36,960 Speaker 1: got into weightlifting at fifteen because of how much he 345 00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:38,080 Speaker 1: admired superheroes. 346 00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:40,199 Speaker 8: You know, I always would to love like him. You know, 347 00:18:40,280 --> 00:18:42,600 Speaker 8: that feeling of like, you know, like dominate some power. 348 00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:43,879 Speaker 8: You know, that's z he has. 349 00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:47,639 Speaker 1: He says he started using testosterone at eighteen because people 350 00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:48,560 Speaker 1: online told him to. 351 00:18:49,320 --> 00:18:51,000 Speaker 8: I had a bunch of other guys like telling me 352 00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:53,920 Speaker 8: like how fucking like how much how it exploded. 353 00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:55,440 Speaker 4: And you know, like shit shit like that. 354 00:18:55,520 --> 00:18:58,199 Speaker 8: But I already knew for myself personally, I knew I 355 00:18:58,240 --> 00:18:59,800 Speaker 8: had the genetics to like, actually look good. 356 00:18:59,800 --> 00:19:03,560 Speaker 1: I knew I had the genetics to actually look good 357 00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:06,960 Speaker 1: if I hop on. For the record, even in the 358 00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:11,280 Speaker 1: bodybuilding community, eighteen is considered very young for performance enhancing drugs. 359 00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:15,520 Speaker 1: The standard recommendation is basically, get as big and strong 360 00:19:15,560 --> 00:19:18,399 Speaker 1: as you possibly can first, then use drugs to go 361 00:19:18,440 --> 00:19:19,120 Speaker 1: that extra mile? 362 00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:21,760 Speaker 4: What made you decide to do it so so early? 363 00:19:23,080 --> 00:19:25,200 Speaker 8: Because I feel like there's no sense of waiting because 364 00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:27,959 Speaker 8: like like a lot of chances don't come like often, 365 00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:30,679 Speaker 8: like like you know, like finding another gear source or 366 00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:31,160 Speaker 8: you know. 367 00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:32,000 Speaker 4: Things in that nature. 368 00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:35,520 Speaker 1: When you say finding another gear source, what do you mean, you. 369 00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:37,920 Speaker 8: Know, like finding finding you know, like a legit, a 370 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:40,560 Speaker 8: legit you know, someone that can actually get you like 371 00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:41,440 Speaker 8: legit gear. 372 00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:45,160 Speaker 4: You know, how do you get it? Get it from 373 00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:46,639 Speaker 4: face to face with were plugged? 374 00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:49,719 Speaker 1: So basically he started doing steroids because he had access 375 00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:55,000 Speaker 1: to steroids. AJ dreams of being a bodybuilder, also an influencer. 376 00:19:55,600 --> 00:19:58,840 Speaker 1: His biggest heroes include bodybuilders Tom Platts and Lee Priest, 377 00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:03,119 Speaker 1: and someone named Dallas McCarver, a YouTube bodybuilder born in 378 00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:06,680 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety one. McCarver actually died of a heart attack 379 00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:08,680 Speaker 1: in twenty seventeen at twenty six. 380 00:20:11,760 --> 00:20:14,320 Speaker 4: Damn, but he's he's a legend. 381 00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:19,399 Speaker 1: Though mccarver's autopsy report lists a massively enlarged heart, kidney damage, 382 00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:23,400 Speaker 1: and an engorged liver as contributors to his death, all 383 00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:28,879 Speaker 1: symptoms associated with long term steroid abuse. When we speak 384 00:20:29,040 --> 00:20:32,119 Speaker 1: AJ's nineteen years old and living at home with his parents. 385 00:20:32,480 --> 00:20:35,000 Speaker 1: I ask him, do they know about the drugs he's taking? 386 00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:38,359 Speaker 4: Like my mom, he kind of accepted it, but you know, 387 00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:39,280 Speaker 4: my dad hates it. 388 00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:40,479 Speaker 1: Why does he hate it? 389 00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:40,600 Speaker 2: Can? 390 00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:44,560 Speaker 4: I ask? Uh? Because of the health aspects. 391 00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:47,560 Speaker 8: He believes that it's just so damaging to the health 392 00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:48,639 Speaker 8: and things of that nature. 393 00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:51,359 Speaker 1: And do you have any thoughts about that, like, you know, 394 00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:54,760 Speaker 1: because it's like there's a you know, there's. 395 00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:57,639 Speaker 8: Maybe like a thirty percent chance of like actually running 396 00:20:57,680 --> 00:21:00,399 Speaker 8: in the problems. But I'd rather be like, like, I 397 00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:02,240 Speaker 8: really don't care. I'd rather just be big as fuck. 398 00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:05,200 Speaker 8: I rather die big as fuck, Like I'll do anything 399 00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:07,800 Speaker 8: just to be like fucking huge. So it doesn't really 400 00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:08,960 Speaker 8: either way. 401 00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:10,840 Speaker 1: Why do you want to be huge so bad? 402 00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:11,040 Speaker 4: Man? 403 00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:15,240 Speaker 8: I just I love like being the biggest. I love, 404 00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:17,160 Speaker 8: you know, like the compliments, the admiration. 405 00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:18,240 Speaker 4: I love it. 406 00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:23,159 Speaker 1: So you're like, if I die at forty, but I 407 00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:26,080 Speaker 1: got abs on abs and my biceps for twenty four 408 00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:29,760 Speaker 1: inches or whatever, like that's that's cool by me. Exactly 409 00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:36,000 Speaker 1: after our one call together, AJ stopped responding to me, 410 00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:39,360 Speaker 1: but I followed along on his TikTok in the past 411 00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:41,400 Speaker 1: few months, by the looks of things, AJ has only 412 00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:44,560 Speaker 1: gotten bigger, and it seems that he's added a number 413 00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:47,560 Speaker 1: of other drugs to a stack, something that he told 414 00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:49,600 Speaker 1: me he was thinking about doing when we first talked. 415 00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:52,000 Speaker 8: Yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna see how the next week feels, 416 00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:54,120 Speaker 8: and then I might up the dose, maybe like five, 417 00:21:54,520 --> 00:21:55,200 Speaker 8: maybe add some. 418 00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:58,879 Speaker 1: Decade deca dur a ballin, commonly known as decca. It's 419 00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:02,560 Speaker 1: an anabolic steroid often used on top of TRT. The 420 00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:04,760 Speaker 1: bro science says that it helps a joint pain and 421 00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:08,560 Speaker 1: recovery on top of muscle growth. But a few months later, 422 00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:11,440 Speaker 1: while scrolling through AJ's feed, I saw him post about 423 00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:13,720 Speaker 1: suffering complications from taking these drugs. 424 00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:14,600 Speaker 4: Bro. 425 00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:17,840 Speaker 8: I fucking hate Deck with all my fucking Brett, But 426 00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:20,280 Speaker 8: I feel fucking sad all the time, all. 427 00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:21,080 Speaker 4: The goddamn time. 428 00:22:21,119 --> 00:22:24,920 Speaker 1: But it's just roid rage in sadness grow Who let me? 429 00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:27,000 Speaker 4: Who let me hop on Deck? 430 00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:28,400 Speaker 1: It isn't just AJ. 431 00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:31,199 Speaker 8: A lot of people wind up getting anxiety if they 432 00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:33,280 Speaker 8: do too much NPP or too much decca. 433 00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:35,879 Speaker 1: That's kind of just a quick search through TikTok and 434 00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:37,920 Speaker 1: you can find plenty of people talking about the side 435 00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:40,520 Speaker 1: effects that they've experienced on deck. I did for like 436 00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:43,240 Speaker 1: three weeks, and so that kicked in. I'ah fucking stressed 437 00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:46,120 Speaker 1: out of my life. Yeah, I was having panic attacks 438 00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:50,080 Speaker 1: for the first time ever, freaking out. AJ and Aaron 439 00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:53,639 Speaker 1: are both experts in the underground, the gray market, but 440 00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:56,800 Speaker 1: as these drugs become more accepted and easier to access, 441 00:22:57,359 --> 00:22:59,720 Speaker 1: their appeal to a wider set of people has grown too. 442 00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:04,120 Speaker 1: The tech and VC money is pouring in and fundamentally 443 00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:06,840 Speaker 1: changing the culture and speed to market of these drugs 444 00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:15,760 Speaker 1: and our relationship to our bodies. It's hard to say 445 00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:18,639 Speaker 1: for sure how many people are on performance enhancing drugs, 446 00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:22,639 Speaker 1: just because so much of it happens underground, but without question, 447 00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:23,760 Speaker 1: the number is going. 448 00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:27,760 Speaker 9: Up bigger, stronger, you know, make more money. Everyone's got 449 00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:31,480 Speaker 9: to have ferraris and lambeaus. You gotta be hot, fucking hot, dude. 450 00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:35,120 Speaker 9: We are so superficial. I mean, don't. I'm in it too, man, 451 00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:39,080 Speaker 9: I mean, we're humans. We have that low brain. It's dopamine. 452 00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:39,399 Speaker 4: Sam. 453 00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:43,640 Speaker 1: That's doctor Thomas O'Connor. He's a licensed internal medicine physician 454 00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:45,639 Speaker 1: who goes by the anabolic doc. 455 00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:48,199 Speaker 9: When I deal with a young man who's twenty something 456 00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:50,840 Speaker 9: is on and off steroids and his numbers are low 457 00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:53,480 Speaker 9: normal and he's done and he's done everything, Doc, and 458 00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:56,399 Speaker 9: I'm gonna give him testostero. And I say, sir, I 459 00:23:56,440 --> 00:23:59,679 Speaker 9: need to hear from you. You understand that if I 460 00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:02,879 Speaker 9: gave you this testosterone, we crossed a certain point, at 461 00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:06,400 Speaker 9: a certain point, you're never ever ever gonna come off 462 00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:11,639 Speaker 9: ever ever. I've been on forever. And then so many guys, Sam, 463 00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:15,080 Speaker 9: they go really, and I go yep. 464 00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:18,800 Speaker 1: Doctor O'Connor specializes in treating people who have abused steroids 465 00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:22,760 Speaker 1: and TRT. He specifically does this work because he can relate. 466 00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:25,600 Speaker 1: He's a powerlifter and for a number of years a 467 00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:30,240 Speaker 1: steroid user. Two he still uses testosterone, something he says 468 00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:32,399 Speaker 1: he has to stay on forever as a result of 469 00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:35,600 Speaker 1: too many years abusing steroids and destroying his endocrine system. 470 00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:39,040 Speaker 1: His biceps are still giant and bulging, and his face 471 00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:41,200 Speaker 1: is red. He's in his sixties, but he looks like 472 00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:42,880 Speaker 1: he could knock out thirty pull ups on a dime. 473 00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:46,800 Speaker 1: According to doctor O'Connor, the world of underground steroids used 474 00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:49,520 Speaker 1: to be very different. He says he was first introduced 475 00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:51,880 Speaker 1: to it at a gym in his early twenties. One 476 00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:54,240 Speaker 1: day he's there working out and a guy offers a 477 00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:54,679 Speaker 1: spot him. 478 00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:56,800 Speaker 9: He goes, hey, you want to He goes, watch you 479 00:24:56,800 --> 00:24:59,080 Speaker 9: come over here a minute. I've never forgot it took 480 00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:01,560 Speaker 9: me in the back room, in the locker room. It 481 00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:04,160 Speaker 9: was like, you want to come to the next level. 482 00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:06,920 Speaker 1: He says. Back then in the eighties, steroids weren't well known. 483 00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:10,000 Speaker 1: Even as recently as the nineties, people still didn't know 484 00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:13,520 Speaker 1: what they did or how they worked. Something O'Connor sounds 485 00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:15,080 Speaker 1: almost wistful for now. 486 00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:19,399 Speaker 9: Back then, dude, back then there was a real protective 487 00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:23,879 Speaker 9: brotherhood and now it's completely gone because it's just about 488 00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:24,320 Speaker 9: the money. 489 00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:26,119 Speaker 1: But he says that back then the only way to 490 00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:28,760 Speaker 1: get steroids was through word of mouth, and to get 491 00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:30,679 Speaker 1: them word of mouth, you had to be in a gym, 492 00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:33,240 Speaker 1: and gyms weren't on every street corner back then like 493 00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:36,840 Speaker 1: they are now. These were usually dark, dingy, dungeon looking 494 00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:39,560 Speaker 1: gyms that cater to powerlifters and bodybuilders. 495 00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:43,680 Speaker 9: We didn't have phones, you know, so it was just focus, 496 00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:47,720 Speaker 9: outward focus, social focus, and then go to the gym. 497 00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:50,280 Speaker 1: Doctor O'Connor says that people lifted for years in this 498 00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:53,280 Speaker 1: environment before they would hop on cycles. The goal was 499 00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:55,960 Speaker 1: to max out their natural physiques before they even considered 500 00:25:56,040 --> 00:25:56,920 Speaker 1: using steroids. 501 00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:00,440 Speaker 9: It was very protective and we had segments of detection 502 00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:04,280 Speaker 9: in mitigation. On that sam there was mitigation, there was 503 00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:09,840 Speaker 9: barriers to it. All the barriers are lifted, dude, and 504 00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:11,679 Speaker 9: now we have the Enhance Games. 505 00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:15,880 Speaker 1: It's not just the Enhance Games. Telehealth companies are making 506 00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:19,440 Speaker 1: these drugs more accessible than ever before. And doctor O'Connor, 507 00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:23,560 Speaker 1: he's concerned about the side effects, but what really worries 508 00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:27,439 Speaker 1: him is the whole philosophy propelling the Enhanced Games. When 509 00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:30,159 Speaker 1: I asked him to explain, he says that the idea 510 00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:32,639 Speaker 1: that these kinds of substances can be administered with minimal 511 00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:36,280 Speaker 1: side effects is bullshit. That there are basically no guarantees 512 00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:38,560 Speaker 1: that any of the athletes are using these drugs safely 513 00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:42,679 Speaker 1: and responsibly. Remember that Enhanced CEO Max Martin told us 514 00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:45,760 Speaker 1: they wouldn't be testing athletes for drugs, only to make 515 00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:48,040 Speaker 1: sure their organs are healthy at the time of competition, 516 00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:51,320 Speaker 1: and doctor O'Connor worries this could create an environment that 517 00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:53,199 Speaker 1: is a powder keg for gradual abuse. 518 00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:57,879 Speaker 9: You know, I'll take a little twenty five milligrams of 519 00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:01,880 Speaker 9: anavarn training days or whatever, one hundred milligrams every five 520 00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:04,879 Speaker 9: days of sipenade or something, and then they're like, you 521 00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:07,359 Speaker 9: know what, it's gonna go up a little bit more. 522 00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:11,560 Speaker 9: You're you're gonna do steroids. You're gonna do one cycle. 523 00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:14,280 Speaker 9: You're gonna like it. I don't care if you're a 524 00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:18,840 Speaker 9: top guy or a regular accountant guy. You're gonna want 525 00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:21,200 Speaker 9: to do more and more and more. You're never gonna 526 00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:25,640 Speaker 9: do one cycle. Never doesn't work that way. What happens 527 00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:29,000 Speaker 9: is men take steroids and they go I take, they 528 00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:31,359 Speaker 9: take a little bit like they always say, they're gonna 529 00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:34,960 Speaker 9: do this minimal dose. That's bullshit right there. That's one 530 00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:37,399 Speaker 9: hundred percent bullshit. This is an arms race. 531 00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:40,320 Speaker 1: On top of that, he says, he worries about the 532 00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:42,040 Speaker 1: message that this will send to young people. 533 00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:44,879 Speaker 9: If you're twenty three or twenty five and you really 534 00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:49,359 Speaker 9: know what you're doing, rock on. Be careful, brother sister. 535 00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:55,800 Speaker 9: But if you're what's gonna happen is the audience is 536 00:27:56,600 --> 00:28:01,280 Speaker 9: children thirteen twelve, thirteen fifteen, sixteen high school students or 537 00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:04,720 Speaker 9: high school kids are going to see this, and despite 538 00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:08,600 Speaker 9: the fact that they're using lower doses and you could 539 00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:11,280 Speaker 9: have a pr team spin that really great. But in 540 00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:13,600 Speaker 9: the end of the day, the moms and the dads 541 00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:17,320 Speaker 9: are going to have the child tugging on their arm, saying, Mommy, 542 00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:19,800 Speaker 9: I'm going to do this. I'm going to be a 543 00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:36,120 Speaker 9: winner like him. 544 00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:38,280 Speaker 1: I keep coming back to that day in my apartment 545 00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:41,920 Speaker 1: with Chris where he showed me how to inject nad plus, 546 00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:45,200 Speaker 1: seeing him use that syringe, hearing how great it makes 547 00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:48,160 Speaker 1: him feel. I couldn't help wanting to try it too. 548 00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:51,320 Speaker 1: I'm not the child doctor O'Connor's talking about tugging on 549 00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:56,040 Speaker 1: mommy's arm. I'm thirty years old. But human curiosity, it's 550 00:28:56,080 --> 00:29:01,520 Speaker 1: powerful a drug in its own right. In the last year, 551 00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:04,280 Speaker 1: as I've watched the audience for these drugs grow, I 552 00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:08,160 Speaker 1: think about it a lot. Curiosities hold on people. Everyone 553 00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:13,360 Speaker 1: selling this stuff, peptides, nad TRT. They're all banking on 554 00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:18,280 Speaker 1: enhanced included, and they know who they're appealing to. Maybe 555 00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:25,360 Speaker 1: not children literally, but our inner child absolutely being young again, beautiful, 556 00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:28,920 Speaker 1: big and strong and capable. Who's going to say no 557 00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:34,200 Speaker 1: to that? Still enhanced needs to prove that these drugs work, 558 00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:37,840 Speaker 1: that they can deliver on what they've promised, and to 559 00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:40,920 Speaker 1: do that, they're putting on a show larger than life, 560 00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:46,480 Speaker 1: promising unprecedented achievements and shattered world records at the first 561 00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:49,160 Speaker 1: ever Enhanced Games. If a record is not broken, can 562 00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:50,200 Speaker 1: you call it to out a success? 563 00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:52,880 Speaker 4: Look at all you guys. 564 00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:56,360 Speaker 1: More people have never paid attention to track swimming, weightlifting 565 00:29:56,480 --> 00:30:00,320 Speaker 1: and strong man in the history of the world. Next 566 00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:07,920 Speaker 1: Time on Superhuman. Superhuman is a Kaleidoscope production in partnership 567 00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:11,160 Speaker 1: with iHeart Podcasts. The series is produced, reported and co 568 00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:14,440 Speaker 1: host by me Sam Egan. Lina Messi's Metal is our 569 00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:18,920 Speaker 1: senior producer. Production support from Dara Luk Potts, editing by 570 00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:24,040 Speaker 1: Kate Osborne, editorial consulting from Adeza Egan, original composition and 571 00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:28,200 Speaker 1: mixing by Hannis Brown, Reported and hosted by Chris Guayamali. 572 00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:32,800 Speaker 1: From Kaleidoscope, Our executive producers are Kate Osborne, oswa Oshan 573 00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:37,480 Speaker 1: Mengesha Tikador and Kosis Linos. Julia Nutter is the head 574 00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:41,959 Speaker 1: of Studio for Kaleidoscope and from iHeart. Our executive producers 575 00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:45,320 Speaker 1: are Katrina Norvil and Nikki etor if you like what 576 00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:47,560 Speaker 1: you're hearing, subscribe to the feed now so you don't 577 00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:48,440 Speaker 1: miss our next drop.