WEBVTT - Thinking Sideways: Karin Waldegrave 0:00:00.320 --> 0:00:03.239 This episode of Thinking Sideways is not brought you by 0:00:03.320 --> 0:00:07.480 the sale of celebrities total clippings. Instead, it's brought you 0:00:07.560 --> 0:00:11.039 by the United States of Absurdity. When you think about 0:00:11.160 --> 0:00:13.840 U S history, you might remember the notable events like 0:00:13.880 --> 0:00:18.040 the Revolutionary War or the Civil Rights Movement, really big things. 0:00:18.480 --> 0:00:20.920 But did you know that there's a lot of really 0:00:20.960 --> 0:00:24.960 strange little things like the straw hat riots of the 0:00:25.040 --> 0:00:30.040 nineteen hundreds, or the fact that Elvis Presley unsuccessfully attempted 0:00:30.080 --> 0:00:32.960 to get a badge from the Federal Bureau of Narcotics 0:00:33.000 --> 0:00:36.199 and Dangerous Drugs because he was taking a bunch, they 0:00:36.200 --> 0:00:39.320 didn't give it to him. 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Thinking Sideways, I'll broke 0:01:29.520 --> 0:01:37.720 the look at that I don't know stories of things 0:01:37.760 --> 0:01:42.759 we simply don't know the answer to. Hey, guys, welcome 0:01:42.880 --> 0:01:46.200 to another episode of Thinking Sideways the podcast I Am 0:01:46.280 --> 0:01:52.400 Devin this week joined by Joe and Steve. Hey. Surprise, surprise, 0:01:52.600 --> 0:01:55.160 I get a sound effect. Yeah, we're gonna talk about 0:01:56.800 --> 0:02:00.640 and internet mystery, kind of about Facebook, Mr, kind of. 0:02:01.400 --> 0:02:04.680 It's just a weird it's a weird story. Um. And 0:02:04.720 --> 0:02:08.640 it is the story of Karen Catherine Waldegrave. And this 0:02:08.960 --> 0:02:15.320 episode was suggested by James and Ashley in January of 0:02:15.560 --> 0:02:19.680 twenty fifteen, only two plus years ago. Thanks guys, I 0:02:19.720 --> 0:02:25.799 hope you're still alive. Yeah, so you're trying to figure 0:02:25.800 --> 0:02:28.360 out how to explain this is the preface, because this 0:02:28.400 --> 0:02:31.639 is this is it's tough. It's cookie. It's cookie is 0:02:31.639 --> 0:02:34.839 a good word. Kind of creepy too. So we're gonna 0:02:34.880 --> 0:02:38.560 talk about a woman named Karen Catherine Waldegrave, which is 0:02:38.560 --> 0:02:42.520 an Internet mystery. You can hear the question marks and 0:02:42.600 --> 0:02:45.760 my voice. I'm not imitating Steve, but she's not sure 0:02:45.760 --> 0:02:48.040 about the nature of reality is what she's trying to convey. 0:02:48.360 --> 0:02:50.359 If you're going to imitate me, your voice has to 0:02:50.400 --> 0:02:52.960 be much lower than its currently, just so you know, 0:02:54.440 --> 0:02:59.840 not that much lower anyway, it is too Basically karen 0:03:00.880 --> 0:03:05.720 Facebook page maybe is the basis of this mystery here, Okay, 0:03:05.720 --> 0:03:08.640 so here's the deal. In April two, a Facebook profile 0:03:08.720 --> 0:03:14.000 named Karen Catherine Waldegrave von berg Habsburg in parentheses. You 0:03:14.040 --> 0:03:16.440 know how you can put like your maiden name in yea, 0:03:16.800 --> 0:03:22.040 so the Vaughan Burg Hapsburg Habsburg it was in parentheses. 0:03:22.360 --> 0:03:27.120 So this this Facebook profile appeared in April. Posts by 0:03:27.160 --> 0:03:30.919 this user were frequent and prolific. I would say, so, 0:03:31.280 --> 0:03:35.040 and I'm really sorry. I know that we do have 0:03:35.080 --> 0:03:37.640 some listeners who feel like they really need that, like 0:03:38.240 --> 0:03:42.280 and here's the mystery part of the intro. But I can't. 0:03:42.320 --> 0:03:45.680 I can't, I literally can't with the written down properly. 0:03:45.760 --> 0:03:48.480 This is a massive rabbit hole. Yeah, it's a huge 0:03:48.560 --> 0:03:52.080 rabbit The mystery is is that nobody knows who she was, 0:03:52.120 --> 0:03:54.480 where she went, or even if she existed. To begin 0:03:54.560 --> 0:03:58.280 with and what was she doing and what the Yeah, 0:03:58.440 --> 0:04:03.600 so the mystery is the the enigma of Karen Catherine Waldegrave. So, 0:04:04.640 --> 0:04:07.240 and I'm going to go ahead and again do another 0:04:07.480 --> 0:04:11.040 preface here and say that this is, as Steve said, 0:04:11.080 --> 0:04:14.360 a huge, massive rabbit hole, to the point where I 0:04:14.400 --> 0:04:16.520 asked one of our experts to help me with like 0:04:16.640 --> 0:04:19.480 one tiny little aspect, and she kept being like, but 0:04:19.560 --> 0:04:21.440 what about this and what about this? And I was like, really, 0:04:21.480 --> 0:04:24.159 I just need help on this one thing, and and 0:04:24.279 --> 0:04:26.839 like over the span of three days, she finally was like, 0:04:27.120 --> 0:04:29.520 so I'm getting too distracted. I can't help you with that. 0:04:29.760 --> 0:04:34.200 So where we are literally going to do the like 0:04:34.360 --> 0:04:38.640 high level scratch the surface of this case we never 0:04:38.720 --> 0:04:42.200 do that we could have always out of. I mean, 0:04:42.240 --> 0:04:44.680 we probably could do like a four part series on 0:04:44.720 --> 0:04:47.120 this story. There's so much stuff to just kind of 0:04:47.120 --> 0:04:49.200 dig into. We could read every single one of our 0:04:49.240 --> 0:04:51.279 posts word for word. That would actually probably be like 0:04:51.360 --> 0:04:53.479 a year's worth of podcast. I was about to say 0:04:54.360 --> 0:04:59.200 a second podcast. If I highly suggest that you look 0:04:59.200 --> 0:05:02.279 into this case, if if you are at all interested 0:05:02.279 --> 0:05:07.920 in at all. According to Karen's profile, Karen Catherine Waldgrave 0:05:08.040 --> 0:05:18.440 Bonberg Habsburg Habsburg Rights was born in London or Estonia, 0:05:18.520 --> 0:05:22.640 according to one Internet sleuth who provided a date and everything, 0:05:22.960 --> 0:05:26.640 and Karen studied at the University of Toronto in Canada 0:05:26.960 --> 0:05:30.880 and earned a PhD during her time there. According to 0:05:30.920 --> 0:05:34.840 her profile, she's very well traveled. She speaks um a 0:05:34.839 --> 0:05:41.680 ton of different languages, including French, Estonian, Latvian, English, Russian, Gaelic, 0:05:42.400 --> 0:05:46.600 German and Latin though by the way, yeah and Canadian 0:05:46.640 --> 0:05:49.960 a um, even though I will say I took Latin 0:05:50.000 --> 0:05:52.600 in high school. In my Latin teacher always said there's 0:05:52.640 --> 0:05:58.479 no such thing as being fluent in Latin exactly. But 0:05:58.560 --> 0:06:01.200 you know what I love about Facebook profiles, They are 0:06:01.240 --> 0:06:04.880 so easy to just lie on like this is, this 0:06:04.560 --> 0:06:10.279 is this is anisingly huge list. It is, but she 0:06:10.400 --> 0:06:13.039 does use most of those languages at some point, though 0:06:13.080 --> 0:06:15.960 I know Google translates a thing, but I'm just saying, 0:06:16.720 --> 0:06:20.120 at faith value, this is a very well educated woman. 0:06:20.880 --> 0:06:25.839 In n she apparently married a man named Peter Lepeck 0:06:26.360 --> 0:06:28.760 and then they divorced it about ten years later in 0:06:28.880 --> 0:06:34.320 two thousand two. Peter spelled with two ease three ees. Sorry, 0:06:34.520 --> 0:06:38.599 he's a real person with real life, so please don't 0:06:38.600 --> 0:06:42.159 bother him. He has a lot of public social media stuff. Yeah, 0:06:42.200 --> 0:06:43.560 if you like, you know, if you decided to go 0:06:43.600 --> 0:06:46.080 down the rabbit hole, just don't. Don't bother the guy 0:06:46.240 --> 0:06:51.240 with emails or don't do anything. Just don't. He probably 0:06:51.279 --> 0:06:54.960 just doesn't care. Yeah. He has been the CEO of 0:06:55.000 --> 0:06:59.520 a company called Technograph since And by the way, Karen 0:06:59.600 --> 0:07:03.440 Catherine Waldgrave was a matrimonial investor in in that very 0:07:03.440 --> 0:07:05.719 same company. Yeah. I thought she was like the VP 0:07:05.880 --> 0:07:08.120 of something. Yeah, I like. But the way she puts 0:07:08.160 --> 0:07:10.480 it in her in her was a curriculum vita whatever 0:07:10.520 --> 0:07:13.360 you call it, yeah, r CV. Yeah, that which she 0:07:13.400 --> 0:07:17.200 puts a matrimony investor, you know that technograph, which means 0:07:17.240 --> 0:07:19.280 she married a dude that owned the company. She had 0:07:20.440 --> 0:07:22.600 interesting way of referring to a lot of different things. Yea. 0:07:22.760 --> 0:07:28.160 And Technograph isn't any crazy crazy business. It's printing business. Yeah. 0:07:28.200 --> 0:07:31.280 The guy prints on everything. Yeah, but he's been the 0:07:31.320 --> 0:07:35.160 CEO for like twenty it's an established business. Yeah, I'm 0:07:35.200 --> 0:07:36.920 not I'm not knocking it at all. I'm just saying, 0:07:37.480 --> 0:07:39.800 you know the name Technograph. If you don't know what 0:07:40.000 --> 0:07:41.800 it is, you, Oh, I wonder what that what kind 0:07:41.800 --> 0:07:45.360 of texts very high tech, does it's it's printing press. Yeah, okay, 0:07:45.480 --> 0:07:49.120 that's good. So then in two thousand three, Karen remarried 0:07:49.480 --> 0:07:53.240 to a man named Gordon Findlay or Findlay Findlay, Yeah, 0:07:53.280 --> 0:07:56.840 Findley who he? I think he's like eighty eight years 0:07:56.840 --> 0:07:58.840 old and I think she was like thirty five at 0:07:58.840 --> 0:08:01.920 the time. Um. And there's been some speculation that she 0:08:01.960 --> 0:08:04.800 didn't actually marry him, that they just lived in the 0:08:04.880 --> 0:08:08.040 same condo complex. I heard that too, like maybe they 0:08:08.080 --> 0:08:09.840 just sort of do each other passing on the hallway 0:08:09.840 --> 0:08:11.760 and that was about it. But I don't know, there's 0:08:11.760 --> 0:08:15.960 a picture of them together, so I'm saying just passing 0:08:15.960 --> 0:08:20.080 in the hallway, part actually sitting near each other, Well 0:08:20.120 --> 0:08:22.320 there's I mean, but there's only that one picture that 0:08:22.400 --> 0:08:24.760 exists of them. So people say, what could have been 0:08:24.800 --> 0:08:27.320 like from an h O a meeting or something like yeah, no, 0:08:27.440 --> 0:08:30.000 And this is just like the last episode. You can 0:08:30.040 --> 0:08:34.200 easily draw a whole slew of conclusions from single photographs. 0:08:34.240 --> 0:08:36.240 And although again it's kind of like, I don't know 0:08:36.240 --> 0:08:38.800 why you would lie about that, especially because he's so 0:08:38.880 --> 0:08:43.319 much older than her, But whatever. Karen has as recently 0:08:43.320 --> 0:08:47.160 as February first, two thousand fifteen a Genie account, which 0:08:47.200 --> 0:08:51.160 is a genealogy account. Genie is you know, like like genealogy. 0:08:51.200 --> 0:08:58.120 Not On this account she uses the alias Karen Sophie 0:08:58.200 --> 0:09:02.440 kell wal Degrave von Con So sounds right, and I 0:09:02.440 --> 0:09:06.119 should I should stop here and say Karen the Facebook 0:09:06.280 --> 0:09:10.959 is k A r I N and Karen Sophie is 0:09:11.160 --> 0:09:15.719 c A r I N, just like Saren. But to 0:09:15.760 --> 0:09:22.200 see steven S Yeah, worth, wait what I'm a connection. 0:09:24.040 --> 0:09:27.720 It's the name of something, just not a person. So 0:09:27.760 --> 0:09:30.840 it's worth noting here that she uses the same photo 0:09:31.000 --> 0:09:34.760 of herself on almost all of her accounts, which is 0:09:34.800 --> 0:09:37.800 how people have found all of the like like twenty 0:09:37.880 --> 0:09:41.280 eight or something aliases that she uses on the Internet. 0:09:41.520 --> 0:09:44.120 It's also it's not a very good picture of her. 0:09:44.559 --> 0:09:48.000 She actually looks like she's just back from the taxidermist. Yeah, 0:09:49.120 --> 0:09:51.480 her eyes. There's just something creepy about it, because she 0:09:51.520 --> 0:09:53.680 really does look like she's been killed and stuffed. Yeah, 0:09:53.760 --> 0:09:56.400 she really does. And she's got blonde, like her hair's 0:09:56.440 --> 0:09:59.840 bleached blonde, but she actually has brown hair. Karen waldegraved 0:10:00.120 --> 0:10:03.200 is and it's like this very corporate, it's like the 0:10:03.320 --> 0:10:10.280 nineties like ally McBeal picture, you're that's super weird. And um, 0:10:10.600 --> 0:10:13.000 you know so Google image search and just like image 0:10:13.000 --> 0:10:15.400 search in general is a thing, and that's how a 0:10:15.480 --> 0:10:17.720 lot of people have found a lot of her stuff. 0:10:17.960 --> 0:10:19.960 And she even says in one of her posts on 0:10:19.960 --> 0:10:22.240 Facebook like, hey, I know this is actually a really 0:10:22.240 --> 0:10:26.480 bad picture of me, but it's one I'm using, which 0:10:26.520 --> 0:10:30.040 is weird. That's a super weird. On her Genie account, 0:10:30.520 --> 0:10:33.360 she lists four sons and a daughter all that are 0:10:33.400 --> 0:10:38.280 just named like n Kell whal Degray Van I can't 0:10:38.320 --> 0:10:41.600 say that, can't out. She also claims to have three 0:10:41.640 --> 0:10:44.920 ex husbands, not just two. Oh and also she claims 0:10:44.920 --> 0:10:50.120 to be royalty, but more on that later. Back to Facebook, Yeah, yeah, 0:10:50.280 --> 0:10:55.480 Karen Um also posted photos on Facebook, not just text posts. 0:10:55.760 --> 0:11:01.480 But they're weird little photos. Most of them are severely 0:11:01.720 --> 0:11:07.360 or were severely damaged. Well there's well some of them 0:11:07.360 --> 0:11:09.400 were and some of them weren't. I mean, so that's 0:11:09.440 --> 0:11:13.439 the kind of interesting thing is some of them were 0:11:13.480 --> 0:11:16.960 I think legitimately scanned it. They were on those you guys, 0:11:17.120 --> 0:11:20.679 I'm sure you both remember the old photo album like 0:11:20.800 --> 0:11:25.319 Sticky Back with the cellphone cover and I like I 0:11:25.400 --> 0:11:29.439 have these exact same sheets at my house. That's photo 0:11:29.440 --> 0:11:32.079 albums my grandmother made me, And they're just literally the 0:11:32.280 --> 0:11:35.000 sheets taken out and like put on a scanner and 0:11:35.040 --> 0:11:40.320 scanned fully, and many of those pictures are damaged in there. 0:11:40.520 --> 0:11:44.400 But then there's these other pictures that are from there, 0:11:44.440 --> 0:11:47.400 like of Peter, her ex husband, from the you know, 0:11:47.720 --> 0:11:51.640 nineties to two thousand's, early two thousand's, and they are 0:11:51.960 --> 0:11:57.840 quote unquote damaged in exactly the same way, all of them, 0:11:57.960 --> 0:12:02.040 and pretty much everybody agrees these photos are photoshopped to 0:12:02.200 --> 0:12:05.800 look damaged. So she had a damaged template and she 0:12:05.840 --> 0:12:07.800 would just drop it into the damage. Yeah, Like the 0:12:07.880 --> 0:12:11.560 squiggles are exactly the same, like the quote unquote damage, 0:12:11.679 --> 0:12:14.360 the squiggles across and the that were supposed to look 0:12:14.400 --> 0:12:19.520 like reflections during the scanning process of exactly and in 0:12:19.559 --> 0:12:23.400 the exact same spots on like at least ten pictures 0:12:23.400 --> 0:12:26.200 that I saw, except for that one of them is 0:12:26.240 --> 0:12:29.200 a horizontal picture, not a vertical picture. So it's the 0:12:29.240 --> 0:12:33.320 template she like rotated ninety degrees and put it on there, 0:12:33.640 --> 0:12:37.440 and so that is very weird and super creepy. The 0:12:37.440 --> 0:12:41.000 only time I've seen people do that. There's there's there's 0:12:41.040 --> 0:12:43.800 something I'll bring up later on that same thing. But 0:12:43.840 --> 0:12:47.360 I will say she and it's not like a filter 0:12:48.080 --> 0:12:51.760 or something, because on all of these photos when she 0:12:51.880 --> 0:12:55.959 uploaded them, she she claimed they were damaged. In real life, 0:12:56.280 --> 0:12:59.720 she would refer to the damage on the photos as 0:12:59.720 --> 0:13:03.120 some thing nefarious or otherwise. So it wasn't as though 0:13:03.240 --> 0:13:04.920 she was like, look at this cool filter that I 0:13:04.960 --> 0:13:09.120 put on this thing. It was like, look at these 0:13:09.200 --> 0:13:12.880 damaged photos that people were trying to destroy. Right, Yeah, Okay, 0:13:14.320 --> 0:13:20.360 let's talk about the text. It was mostly text, and 0:13:20.400 --> 0:13:22.280 it was lots of texts. Most of most of the 0:13:22.320 --> 0:13:26.120 mystery around her is in the text. Yeah, it started, 0:13:26.440 --> 0:13:28.599 it started out kind of not so unreasonable, and it 0:13:28.720 --> 0:13:32.080 got a little weird. Yeah. So most of the actual 0:13:32.120 --> 0:13:36.280 wall posts were actually like semi coherent, kind of just 0:13:36.720 --> 0:13:40.280 um seemed a little attention well, no, that like the 0:13:40.320 --> 0:13:44.120 actual preliminary posts looked I mean there were a little 0:13:44.120 --> 0:13:46.719 attention seeking. Like sometimes she would say something like, oh, 0:13:46.720 --> 0:13:49.360 I'm glad to see that Alistair is back. Like that's 0:13:49.400 --> 0:13:52.880 not like it's coherent, it's not, you know, but it's 0:13:52.920 --> 0:13:56.760 a little attention seeking. But whatever. And then on an 0:13:56.760 --> 0:14:01.119 example like that, For instance, I think on that particular post, um, 0:14:01.160 --> 0:14:05.720 there's like two hundred and sixty seven comments from her, 0:14:06.960 --> 0:14:10.840 many of which are like max out whatever the character 0:14:10.880 --> 0:14:15.520 limit is on comments, and many of them posted literally 0:14:15.559 --> 0:14:20.680 simultaneously or if not simultaneously, like within minutes of each other. 0:14:21.200 --> 0:14:23.760 And she would go on these commenting sprees for like 0:14:24.040 --> 0:14:27.840 twelve hours at a time. Go ahead that The thing 0:14:27.880 --> 0:14:29.840 I was wondering about that is like, I mean, I know, 0:14:29.920 --> 0:14:32.280 now you can you can cue up posts to be 0:14:32.360 --> 0:14:35.240 posted later. I don't think you were able to do that. 0:14:35.480 --> 0:14:38.680 Oh you can't do that, really, do you know? Steve, uh, 0:14:39.040 --> 0:14:41.760 you are correct Jo that you can queue up post, 0:14:41.840 --> 0:14:45.680 but actually can you do that on a personal Facebook? 0:14:47.000 --> 0:14:49.080 I've never seen an option to do that on my 0:14:49.120 --> 0:14:52.680 personal Facebook, only on the like, you know, I don't 0:14:52.680 --> 0:14:56.760 know if you can do that. But even though I mean, 0:14:58.040 --> 0:15:01.080 but to Joe's question, yeah, I do not think that 0:15:01.080 --> 0:15:05.720 that at that time or today is a built in functionality. 0:15:05.960 --> 0:15:09.360 But that does not mean that someone could not write 0:15:10.040 --> 0:15:13.760 a script to do it for them. That's true, right. 0:15:13.800 --> 0:15:19.320 It also doesn't mean that somebody couldn't, um just like 0:15:21.040 --> 0:15:23.240 document and then cut. And I used to do that 0:15:23.320 --> 0:15:25.840 on a personal Twitter. Sometimes if I like had a 0:15:25.840 --> 0:15:28.360 lot of things I wanted to say on Twitter, sometimes 0:15:28.400 --> 0:15:30.960 I would just like right, I mean, because it's a 0:15:31.040 --> 0:15:33.920 hundred and forty characters or something like that. So on Twitter, 0:15:34.040 --> 0:15:36.080 I like felt like if I was responding to someone 0:15:36.120 --> 0:15:38.280 and I had like a couple of tweets worth of stuff, 0:15:38.280 --> 0:15:41.200 I would just write it out and then cut and paste. Um. 0:15:41.240 --> 0:15:42.840 And so that's not to say that that's not what 0:15:42.920 --> 0:15:46.400 was happening here, but they're so huge, they're huge, And 0:15:46.520 --> 0:15:49.240 let's just like, here's an I have an example in 0:15:49.280 --> 0:15:51.320 here that I know at least one of you has 0:15:51.320 --> 0:15:53.480 actually reviewed because some one of you made a comment 0:15:53.560 --> 0:15:56.760 on it. Yeah, I think it was him. It was him, 0:15:56.800 --> 0:15:59.920 but I thought the same thing. So in this initial well, 0:16:00.000 --> 0:16:02.920 and I am sorry I didn't like explain this in 0:16:02.960 --> 0:16:04.880 my script because I just figured you guys would know 0:16:04.920 --> 0:16:08.160 that I also knew this information. But you're girl, you 0:16:09.240 --> 0:16:11.640 actually kind of went into it later on. I do. Yeah, 0:16:11.760 --> 0:16:15.440 So here's a here's just an example of a post, 0:16:15.640 --> 0:16:18.240 and this is kind of how they would go. She 0:16:18.640 --> 0:16:21.960 the initial post on her wall, like I said, semi coherent, 0:16:22.280 --> 0:16:25.920 not totally coherent, but semi coherent, where She says, quote 0:16:26.160 --> 0:16:31.040 looking for Waldo t E, Thomas Edward Lawrence, Peter O'Toole, 0:16:31.200 --> 0:16:34.960 or Canada's Prime Minister Stephen Harper. This is a Pengue 0:16:35.240 --> 0:16:39.440 nineteen sixty two reprint of the original nineteen six text, 0:16:39.760 --> 0:16:44.720 first published in nineteen thirty five by Jonathan Cape. And 0:16:44.960 --> 0:16:48.000 I mean, there's this, there's connections to be made between 0:16:48.000 --> 0:16:51.040 all of those things we think and mean, certainly Peter 0:16:51.120 --> 0:16:55.400 O'Toole and Lawrence Edward Lawrence. But yeah, but Waldo, I'm 0:16:55.400 --> 0:16:58.480 not so sure of. Stephen Harper, I'm not so sure of. 0:16:59.040 --> 0:17:02.560 Uh yeah, I'm not sure either. But well, we're about 0:17:02.560 --> 0:17:04.600 to go into this. So so anyways, that would be 0:17:04.600 --> 0:17:07.959 the post, and then there would be a comment something 0:17:08.680 --> 0:17:10.960 like this, I'm not going to read the whole thing. 0:17:11.240 --> 0:17:13.679 And when you say comment, would you are you talking 0:17:13.680 --> 0:17:17.159 about one of them or you talking about the thread? 0:17:17.200 --> 0:17:19.679 Because it's a threat of comments. Well, this is like 0:17:19.880 --> 0:17:24.280 one of the many one comment in the threat. Yeah, 0:17:24.359 --> 0:17:26.920 and I'll go ahead and say that, Um, there were 0:17:26.960 --> 0:17:29.560 two comments that we're going to talk about in a second, 0:17:29.920 --> 0:17:33.159 in between that post and this comment. But then she 0:17:33.200 --> 0:17:36.399 would say, surprisingly, you will not find the recipe in 0:17:36.560 --> 0:17:40.960 Myra Waldo's Pan American Complete Round the World Cookbook, which 0:17:41.080 --> 0:17:44.440 was steadily reprinted twice a year between nineteen fifty four 0:17:44.480 --> 0:17:47.639 and nineteen sixty two. She thanks the following four quote 0:17:47.640 --> 0:17:50.840 supplying information for this book unquote, as editor in chief 0:17:50.960 --> 0:17:54.400 the Voice of America Ready Radio Free Europe. Mr Chai 0:17:54.520 --> 0:17:57.159 is of the Common Council of the American Unity, with 0:17:57.240 --> 0:18:01.199 the various foreign constulates and of course most particularly the 0:18:01.240 --> 0:18:04.399 Pan American World Airways Agent all over the world in 0:18:04.480 --> 0:18:06.840 eighty one countries, with a very special things due to 0:18:07.040 --> 0:18:11.159 Harold Laird and Gerald Whittled of Pan American. Man, what 0:18:11.200 --> 0:18:14.960 does that mean? I wonder? And then there's like one, two, three, 0:18:15.080 --> 0:18:20.480 four or five six seven more paragraphs about this and 0:18:20.480 --> 0:18:22.600 and by the way, just so everybody knows, a lot 0:18:22.640 --> 0:18:24.960 of these are so big we can't sit here and 0:18:25.080 --> 0:18:29.720 send no And it's also nonsensical to we want up 0:18:29.720 --> 0:18:32.760 boring into tears. But I do, like she says, I 0:18:32.760 --> 0:18:35.320 guess Harold Laird and Gerald Whittled of Pan American were 0:18:35.359 --> 0:18:37.760 just too busy with other things between nineteen fifty four 0:18:37.800 --> 0:18:40.080 and nineteen sixty two to let her know how to 0:18:40.119 --> 0:18:43.200 mix one cup of dice clery one cup of diced apples, 0:18:43.400 --> 0:18:46.119 half a cup of finely chopped walnuts, and three quarters 0:18:46.119 --> 0:18:48.399 of a cup mannaise to help present the United States 0:18:48.400 --> 0:18:52.520 calm libros. So she's there. I shouldn't be analyzing this already, 0:18:52.560 --> 0:18:55.960 but that I mean, she's just giving the recipe for 0:18:56.080 --> 0:19:04.359 Waldorf salad, right, which is she referred to in a second? Okay, 0:19:04.400 --> 0:19:07.399 I'm just getting too excited. I'm sorry. Uh So it 0:19:07.480 --> 0:19:10.639 shows that one in particular because it gives a really 0:19:10.680 --> 0:19:13.960 interesting idea of what's going on here. These posts appear 0:19:14.440 --> 0:19:17.320 to be incoherent at first, right, I mean we would 0:19:17.359 --> 0:19:21.560 say this that that a couple of paragraphs of many 0:19:21.600 --> 0:19:25.560 more than eight paragraphs, it's just gibberish. Well, what struck 0:19:25.640 --> 0:19:28.359 me is it wasn't necessary, didn't It didn't strike me 0:19:28.440 --> 0:19:30.920 as random gibberish so much as it looked like one 0:19:30.920 --> 0:19:34.000 half of a conversation. It often seemed like what she 0:19:34.040 --> 0:19:36.119 would She'd be posting something and it was like she 0:19:36.280 --> 0:19:39.879 was replying to somebody else in her original posts. It's 0:19:39.880 --> 0:19:43.399 almost like somebody said something, she's saying something back and 0:19:44.119 --> 0:19:47.400 got deleted and we didn't see the deleted comment. Or yeah, 0:19:47.440 --> 0:19:51.760 that's almost the way it feels never minding the posting timeline. Yeah, 0:19:52.000 --> 0:19:54.320 so let's and I want to a little bit break 0:19:54.359 --> 0:19:58.359 these down because you're in the original wall post um. 0:19:58.400 --> 0:20:01.800 What she was referring to was a book called The 0:20:01.840 --> 0:20:04.399 Seven Pillars of Wisdom by T. E. Lawrence, which is 0:20:04.440 --> 0:20:08.600 the autobiographical account of Lawrence of Laurd's of Arabia fame. 0:20:09.320 --> 0:20:11.560 Which is why Peter A. Tool came in because he 0:20:11.680 --> 0:20:16.159 played Lawrence of Arabia in the movie adaptation, which started 0:20:16.200 --> 0:20:19.480 the whole It was a big component in the quicksand 0:20:19.480 --> 0:20:21.879 will Always Get You theory. Oh is that where that 0:20:21.920 --> 0:20:27.640 came from? That's the quicksand actually appeared in the movies 0:20:27.680 --> 0:20:30.440 before we did. But it's just one more that perpetuated 0:20:30.440 --> 0:20:34.720 the myth that, yeah, Quicksand so she had that original post, 0:20:34.800 --> 0:20:37.040 and then she posted these two quick short ones like 0:20:37.080 --> 0:20:40.000 in rapid succession, and then the eight paragraph long one 0:20:40.320 --> 0:20:42.840 she and then she said looking for a Waldorf a 0:20:42.880 --> 0:20:46.000 good salad, but not a boutique school. And then and 0:20:46.200 --> 0:20:50.159 you'll Brenner not exactly Anne Jurison, And then she launches 0:20:50.200 --> 0:20:52.880 into that paragraph rant that I read a little bit of. 0:20:53.200 --> 0:20:55.600 So there she refers to a wald Worf salad right, 0:20:55.640 --> 0:20:58.280 and then like four paragraphs later gives the recipe for 0:20:58.320 --> 0:21:01.639 a wald Worf salad in the context of this larger rand. 0:21:02.040 --> 0:21:08.240 And so I don't think they're actually gibberish. No, it's 0:21:08.280 --> 0:21:12.600 not random words. It's not just random words. No, I 0:21:12.600 --> 0:21:16.520 mean there there is fought behind it. I will agree, 0:21:16.640 --> 0:21:20.239 And there is structure and self reference in terms of 0:21:20.600 --> 0:21:23.280 previous things that are written. So it is not complete 0:21:23.280 --> 0:21:26.119 and utter gibberish. But exactly I don't know that it 0:21:26.240 --> 0:21:30.400 is coherent? Did uh? I didn't notice that? He didn't 0:21:30.440 --> 0:21:35.359 any of her comments get any likes? No? Really, well, 0:21:35.440 --> 0:21:38.120 they probably all had likes within one second of each other. 0:21:38.160 --> 0:21:43.879 Could that? Actually looking at the picture of the screen capture, 0:21:43.960 --> 0:21:45.760 have I don't see the like button? So maybe that 0:21:45.800 --> 0:21:48.560 wasn't a thing then. I don't think you could. I 0:21:48.560 --> 0:21:51.119 think that was like a newer thing it was or 0:21:51.200 --> 0:21:55.280 something like that. So these these kids today just don't 0:21:55.280 --> 0:21:57.480 know how good they got it. Now you think I 0:21:57.560 --> 0:22:01.760 was always possible to just like people on Facebook, always 0:22:01.800 --> 0:22:04.639 possible to react. You don't even like anymore. You can 0:22:04.720 --> 0:22:06.959 you have like five options to react to something. It's 0:22:07.680 --> 0:22:10.520 you can't react to a comment though that you can 0:22:10.560 --> 0:22:13.760 like a comment though, but you can't react to a comment. Yeah, 0:22:13.800 --> 0:22:17.159 that's true. I know you're listening. I know Zack is listening. 0:22:16.680 --> 0:22:20.480 I want to know many do us a solid advertising 0:22:20.480 --> 0:22:24.120 on the show. Yeah, but so for reference, the thing 0:22:24.240 --> 0:22:28.600 is is that there, it's all connected, it's semi coherent. 0:22:29.160 --> 0:22:32.240 But something a lot of people have talked about is 0:22:32.280 --> 0:22:35.040 this thing that I know you guys know what this 0:22:35.160 --> 0:22:37.240 is because we've talked about it on the show before. 0:22:37.560 --> 0:22:40.160 If you've listened to past episodes, yeah, if you've listened 0:22:40.200 --> 0:22:44.200 to my wildly popular Internet mystery episodes, uh, you will 0:22:44.240 --> 0:22:48.479 know of Markov chain and you may know that, um, 0:22:48.520 --> 0:22:51.600 you know, Markov chains are really it's relatively easy to 0:22:51.600 --> 0:22:55.640 write a program to create a Markov chain. And on Reddit, 0:22:56.440 --> 0:23:00.000 I am just like stealing this from somebody on Reddit 0:23:00.080 --> 0:23:02.280 because I couldn't find a generator as good as this. 0:23:02.600 --> 0:23:07.440 So I'm not sure, but tell people, Okay. So Markov 0:23:07.560 --> 0:23:13.840 chain is um hm. Basically it takes some concepts, like 0:23:13.880 --> 0:23:17.239 you just feed it some text to begin with, and 0:23:17.280 --> 0:23:21.440 it will create these like giant chains of text by association. 0:23:21.800 --> 0:23:26.000 It's basically AI basically what it is. It is. It 0:23:26.160 --> 0:23:30.679 is um but it basically just reference. It just finds 0:23:30.760 --> 0:23:34.440 references for for other stuff and then just plugs words 0:23:34.520 --> 0:23:38.720 in that it thinks are going to make a coherent something. 0:23:39.320 --> 0:23:41.440 But it's a I so it's dumb. I don't think 0:23:41.440 --> 0:23:44.320 it's Yeah, I don't think it's quite A doesn't look 0:23:44.320 --> 0:23:46.840 that readable, though it's readable enough you could actually generate 0:23:46.920 --> 0:23:49.440 like college term papers. I'm sure with no trouble at all. Well, 0:23:49.480 --> 0:23:52.840 you can generate some some stuff. So what I'm what 0:23:52.920 --> 0:23:56.400 I'm borrowing here from this Reddit user is um. This 0:23:56.480 --> 0:23:59.199 user said that they found a generator or maybe they 0:23:59.200 --> 0:24:01.159 had one of their own, I don't know. Um, they 0:24:01.200 --> 0:24:03.680 never linked it or anything like that, despite like five 0:24:03.760 --> 0:24:06.880 people being like, hey, can you bank me to that generator? Um, 0:24:07.080 --> 0:24:11.560 they said that they input conspiracy, government, and privacy into 0:24:11.560 --> 0:24:15.119 a Markov chain generator and came up with this. And 0:24:15.160 --> 0:24:17.600