WEBVTT - Ziggy Marley: Black History Month Bonus 0:00:15.476 --> 0:00:15.956 Pushkin. 0:00:20.356 --> 0:00:22.676 Last week we went back and replayed my conversation with 0:00:22.796 --> 0:00:26.116 Usher to celebrate his Super Bowl performance and the incredible 0:00:26.156 --> 0:00:28.996 career resurgence he's had over the last couple of years. 0:00:29.316 --> 0:00:31.796 In thinking about our back catalog of episodes, I thought 0:00:31.836 --> 0:00:35.836 there was another conversation worth revisiting, Malcolm Gladwell speaking with 0:00:35.876 --> 0:00:38.716 Ziggy Marley about the cultural influence the tiny country of 0:00:38.756 --> 0:00:41.276 Jamaica and Ziggy's dad, Bob Marley, have had over the 0:00:41.356 --> 0:00:44.596 last half a century. The Bob Marley bio Pick One Love, 0:00:44.636 --> 0:00:47.636 was released in theaters yesterday. I hope anyone familiar with 0:00:47.676 --> 0:00:49.876 the Bob Marley name or his music will go see 0:00:49.876 --> 0:00:51.756 it at some point if I wanted to keep the 0:00:51.756 --> 0:00:54.716 conversation about his songs and his political thinking alive and 0:00:54.756 --> 0:00:58.756 to guard against his legacy becoming further Whitewashington commercialized, which 0:00:59.236 --> 0:01:02.796 feels increasingly inevitable as the years after his death continue on. 0:01:03.516 --> 0:01:06.036 So have a listen to Malcolm's conversation with Ziggy from 0:01:06.036 --> 0:01:08.556 a couple of years back, see the movie Spend some 0:01:08.636 --> 0:01:11.076 Time with Males catalog and some of the other great 0:01:11.116 --> 0:01:13.916 Jamaican music from that time, from Prince Buster to Alton 0:01:13.956 --> 0:01:20.516 Ellis and beyond. This is broken record liner notes for 0:01:20.636 --> 0:01:21.476 the digital age. 0:01:21.676 --> 0:01:22.676 I'm justin Richmond. 0:01:23.556 --> 0:01:27.516 Here's Malcolm Gladwell and Ziggy Marley. This conversation was taped 0:01:27.676 --> 0:01:30.516 live as part of the Live Talks Los Angeles series. 0:01:31.956 --> 0:01:34.956 This book that you've done, with all of these photos 0:01:34.956 --> 0:01:37.956 of your father, it had a kind of personal residence 0:01:37.956 --> 0:01:40.796 for me because, as you may know, my mom is 0:01:40.876 --> 0:01:44.156 Jamaican and when I was growing up in the seventies, 0:01:44.716 --> 0:01:47.796 we would go to Jamaica every year every Christmas and 0:01:47.836 --> 0:01:50.316 all these so many of these photos are from the 0:01:50.396 --> 0:01:53.236 Jamaica that I remember as a kid. It's funny, It's like, 0:01:53.476 --> 0:01:55.596 I mean, it's very personal for you, but in this 0:01:55.676 --> 0:01:58.956 weird indirect way, it's personal for me too. You know 0:01:59.036 --> 0:02:00.836 how when you look at a photo of Jamaica, you 0:02:00.836 --> 0:02:05.876 can smell Jamaica. I could smell I could smell Jamaica again, 0:02:05.916 --> 0:02:08.956 It's this lovely like took me back to my childhood. 0:02:09.316 --> 0:02:10.876 What led you to want to do this book? 0:02:11.516 --> 0:02:13.756 So over the years we've we've collected a lot of 0:02:13.796 --> 0:02:18.196 photographs of Bob. I'm from different photographers and stuff like that. 0:02:19.356 --> 0:02:22.516 And you know, usually I think the photographs you say 0:02:22.516 --> 0:02:25.556 a Bob are iconic photographs. You know, you always see 0:02:25.556 --> 0:02:29.836 the iconic images, and so for this, we came upon 0:02:29.916 --> 0:02:33.476 the seven the fifth at birthday anniversary, and I felt like, 0:02:33.556 --> 0:02:36.196 let's do some special for the seven fifth. Let's take 0:02:36.236 --> 0:02:39.756 some of these photos archives and put together a photobook. 0:02:40.076 --> 0:02:42.036 The family has never done one before, other people have 0:02:42.116 --> 0:02:44.836 done one. Then I'm totally understand. Always said when you 0:02:44.956 --> 0:02:48.476 talk about you smell Jamaica the photos because during the book, 0:02:49.236 --> 0:02:51.316 like it brought me back to that time too, you know, 0:02:51.716 --> 0:02:54.796 looking at it just it's like it's such a it's 0:02:54.836 --> 0:02:59.236 such a real experience, a real thing that when I 0:02:59.276 --> 0:03:01.716 was looking at the photos, it, you know, everything just 0:03:01.796 --> 0:03:02.676 kind of came back to me. 0:03:03.436 --> 0:03:07.436 Yeah, when you say, I was just thinking logistically, you said, 0:03:07.676 --> 0:03:10.316 this is really the family's book. There's so many of you. 0:03:10.396 --> 0:03:13.356 How on earth did you guys? Did you guys coordinate 0:03:13.716 --> 0:03:16.276 picking all of these photos? Did you have like a 0:03:16.636 --> 0:03:19.556 family counsel where you all sat down and went through them? 0:03:20.556 --> 0:03:20.796 No? 0:03:20.796 --> 0:03:23.556 No, well I was given a task. I was given 0:03:23.636 --> 0:03:25.636 that responsibility of going through the photos. 0:03:25.636 --> 0:03:26.116 That's all we do. 0:03:26.276 --> 0:03:29.956 Kind of delegate responsibilities. Yeah, you know, everybody, this is 0:03:29.996 --> 0:03:32.836 your project, your you have you have the family's approval 0:03:32.876 --> 0:03:33.396 and blessing. 0:03:33.676 --> 0:03:35.236 Is your project, go ahead and do it, you know. 0:03:35.676 --> 0:03:38.916 Yeah, Well, tell me about your your memories of your father. 0:03:39.076 --> 0:03:42.196 You so, you're born in sixty eight, so you when 0:03:42.236 --> 0:03:44.156 he dies, you're you're just a teenager. 0:03:44.796 --> 0:03:46.596 Yeah, it was going on thirteen. 0:03:47.036 --> 0:03:48.996 Yeah, tell me tell me a little bit about what 0:03:49.076 --> 0:03:50.116 you remember of your father. 0:03:51.076 --> 0:03:53.956 Well everything, I mean, they's not'ing to forget really, because 0:03:54.356 --> 0:03:57.756 the limited experience we've had with him, you know, everything 0:03:57.876 --> 0:04:03.196 was memorable and left everlasting impact on my psyche. You know, 0:04:03.356 --> 0:04:06.236 I said everything it was like going to school, but 0:04:06.316 --> 0:04:08.116 a different type of school, you know, I said, like 0:04:08.636 --> 0:04:11.916 so growing not put bob. I mean, there was different elements. 0:04:11.956 --> 0:04:14.596 It was fun side, happicide and clear on the children. 0:04:14.956 --> 0:04:18.236 We will travel to the countryside, this hometown every now 0:04:18.236 --> 0:04:20.476 and again. I didn't fun. I remember those days. They 0:04:20.476 --> 0:04:21.116 were no seats. 0:04:21.236 --> 0:04:22.836 He would have been a lap in the front seat 0:04:23.316 --> 0:04:24.996 or seat no no, no ear back. 0:04:25.756 --> 0:04:30.236 Yeah, yeah, I believe it. I remember that Jamaica in 0:04:30.276 --> 0:04:33.316 the back of the Volkswagen Beetle driven by my uncle. 0:04:33.956 --> 0:04:35.516 Yeah yeah. 0:04:35.556 --> 0:04:37.396 My my mom had one of those two. She had 0:04:37.436 --> 0:04:38.516 one of those Beatles too. 0:04:38.636 --> 0:04:39.196 Yeah. 0:04:39.276 --> 0:04:43.316 Yeah, But I mean and then there was a serious side. 0:04:43.316 --> 0:04:45.636 It was what I saw was a lot of discipline. 0:04:46.116 --> 0:04:46.516 This money. 0:04:46.556 --> 0:04:48.636 I love work hard this mane, I love discipline, this money. 0:04:48.956 --> 0:04:55.036 He's from the countryside and he's so rute rooted in 0:04:55.076 --> 0:04:58.836 his humility that for him to call back to his 0:04:58.916 --> 0:05:01.436 home towne I go back to trenchtone in the ghetto. 0:05:02.036 --> 0:05:04.596 It was like, it's just it's just Bob. This is 0:05:04.636 --> 0:05:06.076 just Bob. It's not like Bob. 0:05:05.836 --> 0:05:10.276 The the superstar or whatever, you know, It's just bib So. 0:05:10.676 --> 0:05:14.276 I mean lots of socle, lots of football, socle music, 0:05:14.316 --> 0:05:17.716 socle music, and the spiritual side of it was very 0:05:17.756 --> 0:05:21.356 powerful thing. And as love having Bible. And he would 0:05:21.396 --> 0:05:24.636 take me and my brother Steve into this what you 0:05:24.676 --> 0:05:26.676 call him. It's like service, like you know people got 0:05:26.676 --> 0:05:29.116 to church service, or people go to the synagague or 0:05:29.156 --> 0:05:31.756 the masque. When we had these thing called naia bingis 0:05:31.796 --> 0:05:33.556 and we would it would be like some weird time 0:05:33.596 --> 0:05:33.996 at night. 0:05:34.076 --> 0:05:35.836 And it was such a mystical. 0:05:35.956 --> 0:05:37.596 That's why I said it left such an impression on 0:05:37.636 --> 0:05:40.996 me as a child, because it was such a the 0:05:41.116 --> 0:05:45.516 not being was such a mystical thing, you know, smoke, fire, drums, singing, 0:05:45.636 --> 0:05:49.996 chanting and a whole spiritual vibe, you know. So yeah, 0:05:50.036 --> 0:05:51.556 you know, we go up in that kind of environment 0:05:51.596 --> 0:05:54.516 where every memory really is stuck with us, and the 0:05:54.596 --> 0:05:56.396 memory is stuck with us more than just a memory. 0:05:56.716 --> 0:06:01.316 It stuck with us as like I experience that has 0:06:01.436 --> 0:06:05.276 kind of molded us into who we are today. You know, 0:06:05.916 --> 0:06:08.356 is a It's a really heavy thing, you know, it's heavy. 0:06:08.636 --> 0:06:11.196 Yeah. The other part of it that's fastening to me, 0:06:11.396 --> 0:06:15.196 as I said earlier, was the Jamaica of that period, 0:06:15.876 --> 0:06:18.156 which is Jamaica in the seventies. So many of these 0:06:18.156 --> 0:06:19.956 photos are about Jamaica in the seventies, and Jamaican in 0:06:19.996 --> 0:06:25.996 the seventies is an intense place. I mean, politics is 0:06:26.316 --> 0:06:30.116 manly in Siaga, and there's violence, and there's gun court, 0:06:30.156 --> 0:06:34.836 and there's reggae and there's you know, don Quarry winning 0:06:34.836 --> 0:06:36.636 gold medal. I mean, it's just sort of like there's 0:06:36.636 --> 0:06:38.276 so I remember go there as a kid. It's just 0:06:38.276 --> 0:06:41.516 like so much. I was coming from rural Canada where 0:06:41.556 --> 0:06:45.956 nothing happened, to a place where everything was happening. Can 0:06:45.996 --> 0:06:47.316 you talk a little bit about that. I mean, you 0:06:47.316 --> 0:06:50.156 were in the epicenter of this because your father was 0:06:50.156 --> 0:06:53.396 at the was the kind of in the middle of 0:06:53.396 --> 0:06:54.476 the of the maelstream. 0:06:55.236 --> 0:06:57.676 Yeah, there were certain minor posts that I can like 0:06:57.796 --> 0:07:03.436 remember about the seventies, especially the more turbulent times the politics. 0:07:03.516 --> 0:07:08.436 So we can go back. I remember the night my 0:07:08.436 --> 0:07:12.076 appearents verse, right. I remember before my mom left to 0:07:12.076 --> 0:07:14.156 go to Ursus. I was like, yo, Mommy, take. 0:07:14.036 --> 0:07:14.436 Me to Earth. 0:07:14.476 --> 0:07:15.956 I wanted to go. I wanted to go to use 0:07:15.996 --> 0:07:18.236 and said no, like you have school tomorrow. And I 0:07:18.276 --> 0:07:20.356 was like very like angry that she never let me 0:07:20.396 --> 0:07:23.396 go to Ursers. And then, you know, looking back after 0:07:23.876 --> 0:07:26.076 the shoot, I think she probably. 0:07:25.676 --> 0:07:28.156 It was a good decision, right. So I remember that night. 0:07:28.196 --> 0:07:33.276 I remember she leaving and we went to bed, right, 0:07:33.356 --> 0:07:36.116 But in the middle of the night, some police came 0:07:36.156 --> 0:07:38.356 to the house and like grabbed us up and like 0:07:39.036 --> 0:07:41.156 there's a lot of you know, like chaos, and like 0:07:41.276 --> 0:07:43.716 let's go move, let's go, let's go get the kids 0:07:43.756 --> 0:07:45.636 them out of the house, and they drove us to. 0:07:45.716 --> 0:07:47.836 Wherever we were going. We never know. I was just 0:07:47.876 --> 0:07:52.236 like this, I was like, the fuck this year? What 0:07:52.396 --> 0:07:53.676 is seventy seventy six? 0:07:53.876 --> 0:07:57.556 But you're about geting the assassination seventy six y So 0:07:58.276 --> 0:08:01.516 Another more impacerful experience was with my mom. Actually we're 0:08:01.516 --> 0:08:03.196 talking about the seventies and what was going on there, 0:08:03.236 --> 0:08:06.796 the political upheaval and just you know, the drama and everything. 0:08:06.876 --> 0:08:10.156 So my some my mom pick us up from school. 0:08:10.156 --> 0:08:11.916 This was during the height of the there was a 0:08:11.956 --> 0:08:14.876 big protest going on political They were blacking the roads, 0:08:15.316 --> 0:08:17.676 fire burning, tires burning in the streets. 0:08:18.036 --> 0:08:19.876 So my mom picked us up from school in. 0:08:20.156 --> 0:08:25.116 The Beatle in the vub's driving us home and we 0:08:25.236 --> 0:08:26.076 come up on our road back. 0:08:26.076 --> 0:08:28.756 Okay, okay, I get home. We're not too far from home. 0:08:28.556 --> 0:08:32.436 But we can pass because these guys there, there's tires burning, 0:08:32.796 --> 0:08:35.556 and these guys are like and I remember being in 0:08:35.556 --> 0:08:36.836 a back seat and watching my mother. 0:08:37.036 --> 0:08:39.236 She came out of the car and she confronted these 0:08:39.276 --> 0:08:41.516 guys in a very bridge brave. 0:08:41.596 --> 0:08:44.516 I mean, it's brave what she did, like stand up 0:08:44.516 --> 0:08:48.036 and say, yo, know whatever I do. She cursed and 0:08:48.076 --> 0:08:50.316 she tacked them down, and they kind of like, okay, 0:08:50.556 --> 0:08:52.396 I'm kind of part part of the road back and 0:08:52.436 --> 0:08:55.516 we drove through. So that's that's another memory that's like 0:08:56.036 --> 0:09:01.596 from remember that time and the turbulent political situation. Those 0:09:01.676 --> 0:09:04.436 two mile posts is what I go back to but 0:09:04.996 --> 0:09:06.796 I mean there was good times to man, you know 0:09:06.796 --> 0:09:09.396 what I mean, I mean going back to change, don't 0:09:09.396 --> 0:09:13.276 playing football. You know, it was a very double edged 0:09:13.316 --> 0:09:15.396 sword that period of time because it was so good too. 0:09:15.916 --> 0:09:17.796 The vibe, the energy of the music. 0:09:18.316 --> 0:09:22.036 There's so much live and there's so much revolutionary like change, 0:09:22.076 --> 0:09:24.516 you know, like it's the same time Bob and Clyde 0:09:24.636 --> 0:09:27.756 muss Up, who was a strong man or a strong 0:09:27.876 --> 0:09:32.036 arm the political function and Bucking Marshall, they came together 0:09:32.036 --> 0:09:34.676 and were starting to kind of dis owned the politics. 0:09:34.676 --> 0:09:35.396 And I was there too. 0:09:35.476 --> 0:09:37.556 I met I met all of these guys take live 0:09:38.036 --> 0:09:41.476 and I knew, I knew what was happening, and I 0:09:41.556 --> 0:09:43.716 kind of but actually when I got later and I 0:09:43.756 --> 0:09:46.076 kind of understand who these guys were because I just 0:09:46.076 --> 0:09:48.836 saw them as guys, as Bob's friends, and I know 0:09:48.916 --> 0:09:51.116 they were meeting and talking and blah blah blah. But 0:09:51.596 --> 0:09:53.516 when I grew up, I realized these guys were some 0:09:53.636 --> 0:09:57.116 dangerous men. They weren't just like some love. These guys 0:09:57.116 --> 0:10:00.876 were some serious guys, you know. So that is yeah, 0:10:00.876 --> 0:10:01.516 that is the world. 0:10:01.556 --> 0:10:02.316 That is the world. You know. 0:10:02.476 --> 0:10:05.516 Back in the seventies, I remember funny you talk about 0:10:05.516 --> 0:10:08.236 your mother and that bla black. My grandfather telling me 0:10:08.316 --> 0:10:10.716 that he driving down the road and there'd be a roadblock, 0:10:10.916 --> 0:10:12.596 and he got really good at guessing whether it was 0:10:12.676 --> 0:10:16.316 j LP or pn P, the two two parties. So 0:10:17.076 --> 0:10:20.716 take a look. He's like, that's JLP wave. It is 0:10:20.756 --> 0:10:23.476 fished out the window j LP. They're like waving through 0:10:24.956 --> 0:10:31.196 the P and P. But you know, to your point, 0:10:31.516 --> 0:10:35.076 it's the world that burst this extraordiny amount of your 0:10:35.076 --> 0:10:37.836 father's music. I mean, it's what gave his music such 0:10:38.516 --> 0:10:42.956 immediacy and urgency and power. Did your father talk a 0:10:42.956 --> 0:10:44.836 lot about the cut of the politics of Jamaica? 0:10:45.356 --> 0:10:46.196 Not, I mean not to me. 0:10:46.276 --> 0:10:48.636 I mean I've heard, I've overheard stuff and i've you know, 0:10:48.796 --> 0:10:50.116 but never directed to us. 0:10:50.836 --> 0:10:53.396 Yeah, I mean he's spoken about it. 0:10:53.476 --> 0:10:57.636 Obviously, he's not a political person to say, well, decide 0:10:57.676 --> 0:11:00.636 these politics are that political party or whatever. I think 0:11:00.676 --> 0:11:03.356 he was because his thing was rastafar right, which is 0:11:03.396 --> 0:11:06.236 another thing. It's need a pn P, I JP. It's 0:11:06.276 --> 0:11:09.516 like it's all things. And what was happening was that 0:11:10.036 --> 0:11:13.036 all of the mentioned Claude Master, Boki Marshall, these were 0:11:13.076 --> 0:11:16.236 the strong arms. They were These were the enforces of 0:11:16.276 --> 0:11:18.516 the political party, the lead enforce us. 0:11:19.196 --> 0:11:21.036 These guys were coming over to Bob side. 0:11:21.756 --> 0:11:23.876 So there was a whole other thing going on that 0:11:24.316 --> 0:11:28.996 the political poets were losing their their muscle to this 0:11:29.436 --> 0:11:33.036 idea of RASTAFARII. And that was what bubb was really about, 0:11:33.116 --> 0:11:36.156 really if it, I mean, if if he was about politics, 0:11:36.196 --> 0:11:39.076 it was the political party of Rasta Farirai, which is 0:11:39.076 --> 0:11:42.916 a spiritual movement, you know, change, change how things are. 0:11:42.996 --> 0:11:46.716 So I think that was his politics. Rastafari was his politics. 0:11:46.716 --> 0:11:49.196 We could say, you know, yeah, I was trying to 0:11:49.236 --> 0:11:53.556 think whether there's another musical artist who has had the 0:11:53.596 --> 0:11:57.996 same kind of status in his or her home country 0:11:58.036 --> 0:12:01.276 as your father did. I mean, I remembering that famous 0:12:01.316 --> 0:12:06.996 concert where the two political figures of the day and 0:12:07.076 --> 0:12:11.236 manly didn't they shake hands on stage? Had had a 0:12:11.236 --> 0:12:12.556 Bob Marley concert. 0:12:12.356 --> 0:12:13.996 Yeah, the one loved Peace concert. 0:12:14.436 --> 0:12:17.916 Yeah. I mean, the analogy would be as if Donald 0:12:17.956 --> 0:12:22.756 Trump and Joe Biden had kind of hugged on stage 0:12:22.756 --> 0:12:25.836 at a Bruce Springsteen concert. Right, that's the that's the 0:12:25.916 --> 0:12:28.156 club I mean, But it doesn'ty, that doesn't even capture it. 0:12:28.236 --> 0:12:30.436 I mean, this is why I love the book so 0:12:30.516 --> 0:12:33.476 much because it takes us back to the time and 0:12:33.516 --> 0:12:37.956 the place. Yeah, there's wonderful photos of the One Love 0:12:37.996 --> 0:12:40.676 Concert with Siega and Michael Manley. 0:12:41.116 --> 0:12:43.156 Yeah, I remember that that was there. Me and my 0:12:43.196 --> 0:12:45.796 brother went on stage. That's what we usually do. Like 0:12:45.916 --> 0:12:48.876 me'am Stephen, my brother Steven, you would go on stage. 0:12:48.876 --> 0:12:51.036 We would go on stage in that last time, which 0:12:51.076 --> 0:12:54.516 is usually exodus those times was tough to the One 0:12:54.556 --> 0:12:57.516 Love Peace Concert. So I remember, let me. 0:12:57.556 --> 0:12:57.796 Let me. 0:12:57.956 --> 0:12:59.796 I don't think we're being afforded at that period. But 0:12:59.876 --> 0:13:02.996 when Bob after the assassination attempt and Bob I'd come 0:13:03.036 --> 0:13:05.836 home far the One Love Peace Concert, So we all 0:13:05.836 --> 0:13:08.236 went to the airport, and you know, there was totally 0:13:08.276 --> 0:13:11.236 enough people at the air because Bob's coming back. And 0:13:11.276 --> 0:13:15.076 the thing is that political strongmen for the parties, political 0:13:15.116 --> 0:13:17.436 parties now we're on the same page as Bob. And 0:13:17.516 --> 0:13:22.196 so everyone that supports these political parties now was supporting 0:13:22.196 --> 0:13:25.516 Bob and and and these these guys who know have 0:13:25.596 --> 0:13:28.956 their own ideas of peace and less political violence. 0:13:29.916 --> 0:13:31.156 So the airport was full. 0:13:31.516 --> 0:13:34.156 And then I was there and I remember the crowd 0:13:34.236 --> 0:13:37.876 and then pulled Bob and I'm there, I'm outside now 0:13:38.636 --> 0:13:41.236 in this crowd, all mixed up with everybody, and Bob 0:13:41.396 --> 0:13:43.676 get pulled into a car and I'm by the window 0:13:43.756 --> 0:13:48.356 like this, Why no, he pulled me through the window. 0:13:50.196 --> 0:13:51.556 Well you knew you got left behind. 0:13:52.716 --> 0:13:54.476 I got mixed up in the cow. It was like 0:13:54.556 --> 0:13:57.316 this crowd. No, there wasn't I had no nanny, r 0:13:57.436 --> 0:13:58.316 nobody watching me. 0:14:01.036 --> 0:14:04.676 It's important to remember in this moment in Jamaican history, 0:14:04.916 --> 0:14:07.476 it's almost like the country is in is instead of 0:14:07.476 --> 0:14:11.516 civil war, there is violence everywhere. You know, people are 0:14:11.596 --> 0:14:14.556 leaving Jamaica and droves to come to the United States 0:14:14.636 --> 0:14:17.996 or Canada to escape. It's a kind of a crazy period. 0:14:18.396 --> 0:14:20.876 But it's funny not only as civil wars, like a 0:14:20.956 --> 0:14:23.516 geopolitical work going on to at the same time between 0:14:24.036 --> 0:14:27.156 the United States and Russia and Cuba, because that was 0:14:27.196 --> 0:14:27.676 the old thing. 0:14:27.796 --> 0:14:30.316 That's why Edward Seaga he was a buston. 0:14:30.356 --> 0:14:33.276 He guarded from Boston University, and so there was the 0:14:33.316 --> 0:14:35.076 geopolitical situation. 0:14:35.156 --> 0:14:37.516 Even elevated the stakes even more. 0:14:38.116 --> 0:14:41.716 Yeah, and Bob, I mean, Bob wasn't a serious position 0:14:41.836 --> 0:14:45.316 and nobody knew, but he wasn't a serious position because 0:14:45.756 --> 0:14:50.276 of the geopolitical element. Would would America allow a socialist 0:14:50.316 --> 0:14:55.076 government who has ties with Cuba to have another, which 0:14:55.116 --> 0:14:59.556 would then mean Russia having a more influence in that region. 0:15:00.236 --> 0:15:02.556 You know, America didn't want and would not allow that. 0:15:02.996 --> 0:15:05.436 And now there was this guy, this singer guy who 0:15:05.756 --> 0:15:08.356 who people were drawn to, and he was like she 0:15:08.436 --> 0:15:13.316 had some politic got power too because the political strong 0:15:13.356 --> 0:15:16.076 men and their people are now drawn to this singer guy. 0:15:16.156 --> 0:15:18.756 Who's this singer guy, you know what I'm saying. So 0:15:19.676 --> 0:15:24.276 the states were really high beyond what I think we realized, 0:15:24.436 --> 0:15:26.876 or even Bob might have realized at the time. Are 0:15:26.916 --> 0:15:27.876 people around him you know. 0:15:28.716 --> 0:15:31.876 We'll be back with Malcolm Gladwell and Ziggy Marley after 0:15:31.916 --> 0:15:38.356 a break. We're back with more from Ziggy Marley and 0:15:38.476 --> 0:15:39.396 Malcolm Gladwell. 0:15:39.956 --> 0:15:42.836 Can you think of a musical figure who is analogous 0:15:42.876 --> 0:15:43.396 to your father? 0:15:44.556 --> 0:15:48.516 Yeah, I think more fella cute from Nigeria. 0:15:48.716 --> 0:15:52.276 Yeah, and him he was, you know, he was another 0:15:52.356 --> 0:15:55.476 one of my I met him once, not Chica, but 0:15:55.516 --> 0:15:58.596 he was he was serious. He was really, I mean 0:15:58.956 --> 0:16:02.516 what he did in in Nigeria standing up against the government, 0:16:02.556 --> 0:16:03.996 the brutality and the songs he. 0:16:03.956 --> 0:16:05.276 Wrote about that. 0:16:05.436 --> 0:16:09.036 Really, he just like my father assassination, and I mean 0:16:09.636 --> 0:16:11.916 they would read him and beat him and beat his 0:16:11.996 --> 0:16:13.476 mother and you know a type of things. 0:16:13.556 --> 0:16:17.636 So I felt it would be a good analogy to Bob. 0:16:17.676 --> 0:16:20.116 I think, yeah, yeah, And there are a couple maybe 0:16:20.156 --> 0:16:23.996 a couple of South African la maybe it would be 0:16:24.196 --> 0:16:28.236 a good analogy. But when do you become aware that 0:16:28.396 --> 0:16:30.676 you want to make your life in music? Is that 0:16:30.716 --> 0:16:32.636 something that comes to you very young and looking at 0:16:32.636 --> 0:16:34.476 your father or afterwards after his death. 0:16:35.196 --> 0:16:36.436 No, it comes, it comes before that. 0:16:36.516 --> 0:16:38.196 I mean the first concert we played, it was a 0:16:38.236 --> 0:16:42.196 concert that Bob wasn't It was the International year the 0:16:42.276 --> 0:16:46.436 children hear that was same to nine. So he and 0:16:46.516 --> 0:16:48.236 he wrote the first song that we have a song. 0:16:49.516 --> 0:16:52.036 So we was always music and Bob would always call 0:16:52.156 --> 0:16:55.316 us to sing when he's writing, it'll come sing. 0:16:55.836 --> 0:16:57.116 We're playing. We want to go play. 0:16:57.116 --> 0:16:59.636 He started telling us to come sing, you know, so 0:17:00.236 --> 0:17:02.916 we'll start very young with music. The thing I get 0:17:02.956 --> 0:17:08.556 from Bob musically speaking, is a discipline and the focus 0:17:08.636 --> 0:17:12.636 and the seriousness in which you approach the music. The 0:17:12.676 --> 0:17:14.756 respect that they gave the music. So you have to 0:17:14.796 --> 0:17:17.476 put in the work that shows you respect the music 0:17:17.636 --> 0:17:19.876 is not like it and you know, you have to 0:17:19.876 --> 0:17:22.476 sing the right No you ever practice, you know, so 0:17:22.916 --> 0:17:25.476 really when we used to see that and much about 0:17:25.476 --> 0:17:28.796 the Marrs, and I think for some reason I grew 0:17:28.876 --> 0:17:32.716 up taking that ethic of hard work and putting it 0:17:32.756 --> 0:17:34.956 into my own music of my life in general, you know, 0:17:35.276 --> 0:17:36.636 the exercise and or whatever. 0:17:37.116 --> 0:17:40.996 I think seeing him just you know, grining and like 0:17:41.756 --> 0:17:42.716 want to make it right. 0:17:42.796 --> 0:17:46.556 And the discipline, the discipline, you know said, the discipline 0:17:46.636 --> 0:17:50.036 is really is a strong impact on me seeing that 0:17:50.116 --> 0:17:52.356 discipline as growing up around that. 0:17:53.356 --> 0:17:55.076 Can you talk a little bit about the way he 0:17:55.116 --> 0:17:57.716 made music? I mean, was there was there a kind 0:17:57.716 --> 0:18:00.996 of an approach that a particular approach and can you 0:18:00.996 --> 0:18:03.236 can you give a loves of an example of how 0:18:03.276 --> 0:18:04.636 he worked and how he created? 0:18:05.356 --> 0:18:09.076 Well what I saw and this was probably in Miami 0:18:09.356 --> 0:18:12.116 at his mother's house. Yeah, but he always had this 0:18:12.236 --> 0:18:14.836 guitar around and a lot of time it's mumbling. You 0:18:14.876 --> 0:18:17.756 don't really it's not a song, you just hear ideas 0:18:17.796 --> 0:18:18.316 coming out. 0:18:18.716 --> 0:18:22.356 And for me, he would always have fun with it. 0:18:22.356 --> 0:18:25.556 It was never like a serious like writing and you know, 0:18:25.796 --> 0:18:29.676 it was like something very joyful in the process, was 0:18:29.796 --> 0:18:34.716 very joyful, unhappy, and people around and laughing and you know, 0:18:34.956 --> 0:18:38.316 you getting the lyrics making fun. There's this one, and 0:18:38.356 --> 0:18:40.156 I don't think you never did release this one. 0:18:40.196 --> 0:18:41.636 It was released. It's kind of like he. 0:18:41.596 --> 0:18:43.356 Did it as a demo real It's kind of like 0:18:43.356 --> 0:18:44.796 a really good time and. 0:18:45.076 --> 0:18:47.156 I don't remember him being in Miami. 0:18:46.916 --> 0:18:50.076 In his bedroom with his O Vision guitar and it 0:18:50.236 --> 0:18:52.836 was just having fun with you, having a real good time, 0:18:53.636 --> 0:18:55.476 you know, and people you know, I'm a smoke and 0:18:55.596 --> 0:18:58.556 split fun. It's just a good energy, just a good vibe, 0:18:58.556 --> 0:19:01.036 you know what it's like. And then you never hear 0:19:01.076 --> 0:19:02.796 what a sound complete. You only hear when it come 0:19:02.836 --> 0:19:05.236 on the record. You hear pieces of it, ideas of 0:19:05.356 --> 0:19:07.796 things you know, and then you hear a record. So 0:19:07.876 --> 0:19:10.996 you never I never him complete one song righting a 0:19:11.116 --> 0:19:14.196 song completely, you know, you always hear a little bits 0:19:14.236 --> 0:19:15.356 and pieces here and there. 0:19:16.996 --> 0:19:20.836 When your father became ill, was there a sense of 0:19:21.076 --> 0:19:24.236 urgency with him? Did his work take on a new 0:19:24.356 --> 0:19:25.596 kind of seriousness? 0:19:26.676 --> 0:19:29.036 No, he was always urgent from him. 0:19:29.116 --> 0:19:31.396 I mean he was urgent from the get go, because 0:19:31.876 --> 0:19:34.516 there are a few examples of that kind of energy 0:19:34.516 --> 0:19:38.436 of his urgency, of his work, ethic, of his determination. 0:19:39.276 --> 0:19:40.876 So he was in the band of Winners with with 0:19:40.996 --> 0:19:42.996 Bonnie and Peter, these three guys, right, they were in 0:19:43.036 --> 0:19:48.236 his band and obviously in a world code because a 0:19:48.356 --> 0:19:50.556 kind to what he said in an interview, it was 0:19:50.636 --> 0:19:53.956 like and said these words, he used my name. He says, 0:19:54.516 --> 0:19:56.796 if if you think when Ziggy wants to go to 0:19:56.836 --> 0:20:00.156 school that he can say, like he didn't want to work, 0:20:00.156 --> 0:20:01.756 he didn't want to do this what you know, so 0:20:02.556 --> 0:20:05.196 he wants to work, you know, he wants to get 0:20:05.236 --> 0:20:07.636 things done. There was always an urgency. There was never 0:20:08.516 --> 0:20:10.236